Air-to-air madhouse

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Air-to-air madhouse


So, on the other side they are tearing, as I understand it, the banjo, because the event that took place is regarded as a complete victory and now the Russians and Chinese will tremble, because...



What exactly is “for”? I’ll quote one American resource known to us (I won’t point the finger at Popular Mechanic), because
"Naval fleet did the unthinkable: turned missiles warships in the air weapon! Fighters now bring unprecedented firepower to the skies."
.

So, someone was able to install ship-based missiles on fighters. Defense.


What is so “unthinkable” here? So I understand that at one time we took a ballistic missile and made it into an aeroballistic one.

Moreover, all this did not require 20 years of work or 300 million dollars. The rocket was taken ready-made, the carrier was invented on the fly, and most suitable for playing the role of the first stage of the MiG-31.


The Iskander became the Kinzhal and you can say whatever you want about the shortcomings of this complex, but so far neither the Patriot, nor IRIS-T, nor NASAMS have been able to intercept the Kinzhal.

A week-long search for the truth did not lead to anything. Not a single photograph that even closely resembles something similar to “Dagger” could be found in Ukrainian and American sources. And what we managed to discover is that in order to believe that this is “Dagger”, you have to be Biden.

So actually we've already done this.

What are the Americans reporting?


And their advantage lies in the fact that the SM-6 missile is currently being used on F/A-18 Super Hornet fighters.


“The SM-6 was originally developed as a ship-based air defense missile, and now it is the longest-range air-to-air missile in the world.

Earlier this month aviation The world was shocked by the revelation that the SM-6 anti-aircraft missile, previously used to arm warships, had been used to arm F/A-18E/F Super Hornet strike fighters. As a result, the world's longest-range air-to-air missile suddenly appeared, significantly superior to its Russian and Chinese counterparts. The missile's success will likely lead to other pairs that will take advantage of America's vast arsenal of high-tech weapons."

Well, let me doubt it.

In June 2024, a qualified photographer took photographs of a Navy F/A-18F strike fighter carrying an SM-6 air defense missile. The SM-6, designed for Navy warships, has a range of about 450 km. This is three times longer than the publicly stated range of AMRAAM, the US military's current long-range missile. China's longest-range air-to-air missile, the PL-15 (Thunderbolt-15), has a range of about 300 km.

Just a month later, on the eve of the multinational Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) exercise in Hawaii, a seemingly different photographer captured a Super Hornet at Joint Base Hickam-Pearl Harbor armed with two missiles the Navy now calls the XAIM-147B — the Air-Launched SM-6. In an email to FlightGlobal, the service confirmed that the XAIM-174B had been “operationally deployed” to the fleet, meaning it was combat-ready.

“Adapting the XAIM-147B to fighter aircraft has a number of advantages. First, the missile was already designed and ready to fly, and the Navy also already had a concept of operation, or how they would use the missile in combat. Finally, there was already a production line set up to create what was then called the SM-6, cutting the time it took to get missiles to the fleet by months or even years.

This leap in capability was only possible because the US military already had a missile designed for other platforms that could be adapted for fighter jets. The huge arsenal of weapons of the American military-industrial complex means that this kind of adaptive innovation will almost certainly happen again."

Literally, “The thunder of victory, ring out!” In general, we have gone through this more than once, but still, gritting our teeth, we continue to study what is written on the other side.

And there, quite reasonably, they say that recently US engineers have achieved extraordinary success in hammering and filing various types of weapons. First of all, for Ukraine.

Let's start from there, so to speak. From there - this is from the 80s of the last century, when the US came up with the HARM rocket, which was very good for that time.

THREE



“American HARM anti-radar missiles, developed during the Cold War to track Soviet air defense radars, have been adapted to the former Soviet Su-27 Flanker and MiG-29 Fulcrum fighters flown by the Ukrainian Air Force. Although they were once considered completely incompatible, someone somehow fit the combination of Soviet and American avionics systems like a glove."

Well, yes, an American engineering genius, no less. In general, the HARM, which was transferred to Ukraine, was equipped with a passive radar seeker, that is, these missiles were used “stupidly”: when a warning about radar exposure was triggered in the cockpit of the Su-27 or MiG-29, the Ukrainian pilot launched the HARM, counting on the fact that the seeker itself he'll figure it out there.


Here is a photo of the cockpit of the Ukrainian MiG-29 at the time of HARM launch. Who sees additional blocks or displays? And I don't see. There is only a smartphone that plays the role of a GPS navigator. That's all. Another question is that the HARM seeker is quite accurate and allows the missile to aim itself.

Here we can recall Desert Storm, when on the first day 125 fired HARMs destroyed 56 Iraqi radars.

But we can remember that in that operation, three of our Patriot air defense systems, one B-3 bomber, the Saudi boat Abu Obaidah and the American frigate USS Nicholas were given away.


But in general, the AGM-88 HARM is the right missile.

Another example is the Franken-ZRK. But here I already want to ask: “What does this have to do with you?” In general, it was Czech and Polish engineers who successfully combined American missiles with Ukrainian Buk air defense systems. The upgraded Buks, nicknamed "Franken SAMs", are armed with Sea Sparrow missiles, which were intended to protect American warships from air attacks, and Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. Not a bad move, considering the complete exhaustion of ammunition for Soviet air defense systems.

In general, not the most successful examples, in my opinion. But we will return to XAIM-147B, because here not everything is smooth and clear.

XAIM-147B


So, the base model is SM-6, or if completely, then RIM-174 SM-6 ERAM. In fact, it is a constructor made from quite successful solutions of past years. The booster booster from the CM-3 anti-missile missile, the active radar seeker from the AIM-120 AMRAAM, and so on.


It turned out well with the seeker: the missile became practically independent of the ship’s guidance radars, that is, it was practically “fired and forgotten.” But here again there is a nuance: yes, during the cruising phase the rocket is controlled by an inertial autopilot, but with the ability to correct the course by commands from the carrier ship according to its radar data. This is justified, since “seeing” at 400 km is, excuse me, not for the seeker of a rocket, even the most difficult one. But the target, especially one that detects the launch, will not stand and wait for the missile to arrive.

We're talking about airplanes for now. Behind Drones and rockets are a separate and special conversation.

That is, in order to successfully get within range of activating its seeker, the SM-6 must fly some distance using the inertial autopilot. If we are talking about distances over 300 km, this is difficult, especially if the target not only flies at a decent speed, but also actively maneuvers.

Simply launching a missile in the desired direction and then letting it find its target using an active radar homing head (ARHH) may not be the most reliable way. Therefore, for now it is impossible to do without a radar that will monitor the flight of the rocket throughout its entire path at a distance of 300-350 kilometers.

SM-6 flies at a speed of about 4000 km/h. That is, it will fly 300 km in about 5 minutes. During this time, an airplane flying at a speed of 1 km/h will fly 000-80 km. That is, the target can easily leave the zone of confident activation of the ARGSN. That is, an assistant is needed.

Let's go through the radar now


Let's take the classic AN/SPY-1, which is installed on those ships that can launch SIM-6. On the Ticonderogas and Arleigh Berks.


The radar, of course, is no longer a masterpiece, but together with the Aegis system it represents something already classic in this regard - detection and guidance.

The AN/SPY-1 has a range of only 320 km. But for very low-flying targets such as anti-ship missiles - 80 km. But we are talking about a range of 450 km... The situation turns out to be such that, roughly speaking, a missile can fly 300 km according to radar instructions, and then... 150 km according to the seeker? It’s doubtful, but in our context everything is just fine. Let it fly.

It’s clear that at a distance of up to 300 km, SIM-6 can make life difficult for anyone, but beyond that...

In general, SIM-6 doesn’t have very luxurious performance anyway. Numbers are a very good thing, but numbers are numbers, and real indicators... are far from perfect.

Let's not go far, the year is 2021, there were a lot of SIM-6 tests.


May 27, 2021. A salvo of two SIM-6s against a non-maneuvering ballistic target. There was no interception.

May 29, 2021. A salvo of two SM-6 Dual II missiles at a target in the form of a medium-range ballistic missile. Unsuccessful.

July 24, 2021. A salvo of four SIM-6s at two ballistic targets. One target hit.

Overall the results are so-so. Yes, against ballistic targets, the speed of which is obviously higher than that of any other targets. But nonetheless. Nothing helped, and they are still working on the rocket, at least on its second iteration.

In addition, a very important point: before a missile can be assigned a target, it must somehow be detected. And here a certain misunderstanding arises: the rocket flies 450 km, but the ship’s radar can see the target 300 km away. What is the point of 150 km difference?

To do this, let's look at the F/A-18 radar which is the “Super Hornet”.


There is AN/APG-73 (on old versions) or AN/APG-79 (on new E/F). The range of the first is 110 km, the range of the second is 150 km. And again the question: is there any point in having a missile range of 450 km if the aircraft’s radar operates at a three times shorter range?

If the aircraft’s radar “sees” at 150 km, then there is the AIM-120C-7 missile with a range of 120 km. Or AIM-120D with a range of 180 km. Everything is very logical. The radar-rocket sparkle looks efficient and without overkill.

Well, the last


The weight of one SM-6 is “only” 1500 kg. Two rockets will weigh 3 kg, understandable without a calculator. In total, the F/A-000 C/F carries 18 kg of weapons.

That is, two missiles will take on 2/3 of the aircraft’s combat load. It is clear that there is only one aircraft in a flight with these ultra-long-range missiles, because someone has to do something other than carry strange missiles.

In general, an airplane that “sees” at 150 km, carrying missiles that fly at 450 km, looks very peculiar.

About the seeker of the SIM-6 missile. She is so independent, she can do without outside help, but the question is: how much does she “see” the goal? Since the seeker is inherited from the AIM-120 AMRAAM, and there is data on this missile, the AIM-120 AMRAAM seeker is capable of detecting a target with an ESR of about 3 m² at ranges of about 16-18 km.

This is all, we can end it.

The insane joy of the Americans that they have built the farthest-flying rocket that “has no analogues in the world” is understandable. Everyone (it is clear that Russia and China) should be inspired and afraid.

In fact, there is a difference between the two “collective farms”, and it is not in favor of the Americans in terms of logic.

The Russians suspended an aeroballistic missile under the world's fastest aircraft, which works against ground-based static targets. “Dagger” also uses a mixed guidance system: inertial in the initial and middle phases of the flight and optical/infrared in the final phase of the flight, which achieves a high accuracy of 5-7 m. It is possible to use GLONASS in addition to the inertial guidance system.

But it must be emphasized: the missile flies along predetermined coordinates of a static target.

Here the Americans have an air-to-air missile, converted from a ship-to-air missile, flying very far (450 km) somewhere. 430 km. And then the missile’s radar will come into action, trying to find something and hit it.

Here is some additional information to consider: the diameter of the AN/APG-79 radar is 127 cm. More precisely, the width is still not a circle. And the diameter of the SIM-6 rocket is only 53 cm. How much smaller the fact that the radar will play the role in the rocket can be imagined using a calculator.

In general, when there is nothing to be happy about, and such news it will be very even. How effective will it be to fire such a missile where it finds the target... we'll see. I would like to see efficiency at the level of 1991, when American missiles hit everything they could aim at. It will be exciting.
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  1. 14+
    28 July 2024 05: 23
    Everything that “bullets” across Russia is not good and we will have to fight it no matter what.
    1. 10+
      28 July 2024 08: 40
      Moreover, we ourselves gave the Yankees ideas for use, shooting down Ukrainian aircraft 300 km away. The missile is escorted to the desired target self-capture sector by ALL available means, including DLRO aircraft. So don’t relax and carefully use the “bears”.
      1. Aag
        +4
        28 July 2024 18: 38
        Very carefully... Because there are not many "Bears" left. About the AWACS planes, - in general, perhaps - it is better to remain silent. Otherwise, - suddenly some parade, or a pacifying festival will be disrupted...
      2. 0
        29 July 2024 11: 26
        Quote: Fisherman
        Moreover, we ourselves gave the Yankees ideas for use, shooting down Ukrainian aircraft 300 km away.

        These ideas are a hundred years old. And the USN worked out the SAM trajectory correction mode on the cruising sector, according to third-party sources (AWACS), EMNIP, even before the SVO - just on the “Standards” with the ARL seeker.
  2. +3
    28 July 2024 05: 24
    16-18 km is not so little if AWACS also helps, or the missile makes maneuvers scanning the space to detect a target. I don’t know what radar system is on the rocket; there is also electronic scanning without maneuvers. It’s normal practice to cobble together what was needed into what was needed. bully
  3. 35+
    28 July 2024 05: 24
    Skomorokhov is such a buffoon - I modestly forgot about AWACS aircraft, without which AUG aviation, in principle, does not operate. Today it is the E-2D with APY-9, which is specifically designed to target the SM-6.
  4. 11+
    28 July 2024 05: 48
    This is actually not a smartphone, but a normal full-fledged navigator
    1. +6
      28 July 2024 13: 05
      There is only a smartphone that plays the role of a GPS navigator.

      Judging by the photo - Garmin GPSMAP 66s.
      Confusing a navigator and a smartphone...
  5. +1
    28 July 2024 06: 22
    Roman and banjo never roar... hi
    1. +3
      28 July 2024 08: 13
      They tear, by analogy with our button accordion laughing
      1. +2
        28 July 2024 09: 55
        Apparently I was not paying attention... Thank you. hi
  6. 16+
    28 July 2024 06: 33
    In general, everything in the article is very, very logical...
    However, the Americans did not show themselves to be complete idiots in armaments.
    So the question is - what would this mean? Did you miss something - or is there ever a first time for everyone?
    PS
    There is an example of Bradley... a machine that has been reviled and ridiculed many times. However, data from the fields somehow does not confirm...
    1. +1
      28 July 2024 10: 05
      Apparently there is no time to develop a new “missile + launch vehicle” system, as was the case with the F-14 and AIM54. The BBC asked here and now, and not 5-10 years later.
  7. 33+
    28 July 2024 06: 51
    Did I understand correctly that the American SIM-6 with a range of 400 km is bad and useless, and the Russian R-37M with a range of 300 km is a masterpiece of rocket science that will boost the entire NATO?!

    In my opinion, it is logical that long-range air-to-air missiles at extreme distances will not hit fighters at supersonic speeds, but much more important and slower targets, for example, AWACS aircraft, RTR and electronic warfare aircraft, and they will not be able to maneuver them in any way.

    I don’t understand why it’s so stupid to belittle Western weapons systems? For what? So what?

    It is more correct, in my opinion, to realistically assess the enemy’s capabilities and develop counter tactics, as well as promote the creation of similar effective systems.
    1. D16
      -4
      28 July 2024 15: 33
      the American SIM-6 with a range of 400 km is bad and useless, and the Russian R-37M with a range of 300 km is a masterpiece of rocket science that will overwhelm all of NATO?!

      What are these missiles for on the F-18? To increase the stability of the AUG. Will these missiles increase the stability of the AUG? No. You can't go back to the days of the Phoenix. Too much water has passed under the bridge in 50 years. All these are reflexive twitches of frog legs under the influence of videos of x22-32-47 arrivals on the ground, and not a solution to the problem of AUG stability.
      Why belittle Western weapons systems so stupidly?

      Do you see a reason for delight?
      1. +2
        28 July 2024 21: 03
        Do you see a reason for delight?

        There is no such thing as an absolute weapon. But pretending that the new weapon system - guano - is just an ostrich tactic. And yes, these missiles will to some extent increase the stability of the AUG.
        1. D16
          0
          28 July 2024 21: 12
          these missiles will to some extent increase the stability of the AUG

          Watching with whom to fight.
          1. 0
            28 July 2024 21: 15
            It depends on who you fight with

            It's explained below in the comments.
          2. D16
            0
            28 July 2024 21: 19
            are you talking about turbopatriots? laughing
            1. 0
              28 July 2024 21: 46
              No, about Frettaskyrandi
      2. 0
        20 August 2024 12: 41
        To improve the stability of an aircraft carrier, it must have a center of gravity below the waterline.
        The new missile based on the SM-6 is significantly more effective than the Phoenix - further, more accurate, more noise-resistant, with a larger warhead.
        During a threat period, two or three "combat patrols" are launched from the aircraft carrier - an E-2C/D Hawkeye AEW and control aircraft + two fighters, they move out approximately 200-250 km in the threatened directions, the Hawkeye's radar sees Russian Tu-22M3s at another 500-550 km, with the launch range of Kh-22 missiles being 500 km. In addition, in a combat situation, the aircraft carrier formation contains two rings of defense ships, with radii of approximately 60 km and 120 km, there are cruisers, destroyers and frigates with the Aegis air defense system.
    2. Aag
      +2
      28 July 2024 18: 47
      No! You misunderstood! This is different!!!)))
      hi
      ...I have already drawn the attention of my colleagues at VO more than once that after a series of articles with sensitive topics and unofficial analysis of what was happening, Roman first quieted down for a while, then appeared with a slightly different interpretation of what was happening.
      Don't you think so? Stimulated?
      1. 0
        10 October 2024 17: 56
        Maybe this is not Roman anymore?)
    3. +3
      28 July 2024 20: 59
      Why belittle Western weapons systems so stupidly? For what?

      This is the author's signature style. To please turbo-patriots.
    4. -1
      29 July 2024 09: 59
      It doesn't say that 400 km is bad and 300 is good. It's about practicality. Imagine - a ballistic missile that can fly around the globe. Why does she need such a range?
    5. 0
      29 July 2024 19: 27
      SIM-6 weighs 1 kg. R-500M - 37 kg.
      Let's take some kind of missile from the S500 and hang it on the Mig 31, or even on the Tu22.
      The R37M was originally designed as an air-to-air aircraft. Everything there is expedient and harmonious.
  8. 23+
    28 July 2024 07: 08
    An article from the series “everyone is an idiot and doesn’t understand a damn thing.” The buffoon again entered into a hat-throwing rage.
    1. 21+
      28 July 2024 08: 15
      He never left it. All the power is in the hats! laughing
    2. D16
      -6
      28 July 2024 15: 40
      The buffoon again entered into a hat-throwing rage.

      And yet, in the end, he is right. Against the Popuas this missile is expensive and pointless, against us and China it is useless. The current X32-22-47 leaves its carriers much earlier. I don’t think things are any different with our Chinese comrades.
  9. 16+
    28 July 2024 07: 36
    Everything is logical, if we forget about the possibility of third-party missile guidance. And this includes ships, and non-naval aviation, including AWACS aircraft, and aircraft of neighboring AUGs, and information from ground forces radars, etc. And in such a network-centric picture of the battlefield, everything can already be seen differently.
  10. fiv
    +4
    28 July 2024 08: 03
    Either Americans don’t have calculators, or the respected author doesn’t know something. Namely, why they came up with such a tandem, how and for what purposes they are going to use it.
    1. 27+
      28 July 2024 09: 27
      Either Americans don’t have calculators, or the respected author doesn’t know something.

      Americans have calculators, but the author doesn’t know. Moreover, he doesn’t know much, so, to put it mildly, he is deeply misleading the audience.
      active radar seeker from AIM-120 AMRAAM

      The Standard ERAM missile has a homing head not “from” the AIM-120 AMRAAM, but “based on” the AIM-120 AMRAAM seeker and, unlike the base seeker, it is almost twice as large in diameter (340 mm versus 170 mm). But the most important difference is that the basic seeker had only one mode - active radar guidance. The Standard ERAM seeker has three such modes - active, semi-active and over-the-horizon shot "(over-the-horizon shot) with guidance using Cooperative Engagement Capability (rough translation - the possibility of joint interaction).
      The semi-active designation is not accidental. Semi-active radar homing (SARH) is the most common type for long-range air-to-air and surface-to-air missile systems. The name refers to the fact that the missile itself is merely a passive detector of the reflected radar signal coming from the target. external source.
      If the target is seen by the carrier's radar, it is this external source. And in the case of an "over-the-horizon shot", the same Cooperative Engagement Capability comes into play, and the external source can be any radar that sees the target and is part of this system. In the case of the Super Hornet used from aircraft carriers, the "cooperative engagement capability" is provided by the Naval Integrated Fire Control-Counter Air system, and the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye AEW aircraft, whose radar, AN/APS-145, has an instrumental range of about 650 km, acts as an external source of target designation for the missile. The diagram is in the illustration. Only in the case of using NAIM-174, the carrier will not be a ship, but an aircraft. That's all the arithmetic.
      1. 0
        29 July 2024 23: 33
        Quote from Frettaskyrandi
        The Standard ERAM missile has a homing head not “from” the AIM-120 AMRAAM, but “based on” the AIM-120 AMRAAM seeker

        More precisely, in the Standard there is only a transmitter in the GOS from AMRAAM, everything else is its own.
        Z.Y. By the way, the picture indicates that the link goes through the ship.
    2. D16
      -5
      28 July 2024 15: 50
      how and for what purposes they are going to use it.

      To complete any task, the AUG must reach the place where it is to be completed. Will the new old missile solve this problem when meeting the Tu-22M3?
      1. +4
        28 July 2024 17: 22
        No doubt, he will. The Tu-22M3 is not much faster than the Il-76 transport. And it also does not withstand overloads well. The E-2D Advanced Hawkeye will take the 22nd away before launch. And it will send a security detail to the order in advance.
        1. D16
          -3
          28 July 2024 17: 28
          Yeah... And the F18 with a full load is just a sprinter. laughing. By the time it gets to “launch allowed,” the Tu-22 will have already left the affected area. X32 shoots a thousand miles.
          1. +5
            28 July 2024 17: 35
            F 18 from the guard of the order always fly away from the order. Yes, the X32 flies 1000 km, BUT! Who will find it an aircraft carrier that makes from 30 to 50 km per hour. AWACS or another reconnaissance aircraft? Well, these are prominent guys. They are being bombed. And it is more convenient to get the missile from a large distance. It is "X 32" in size slightly larger than the MIG 21.
            1. D16
              -3
              28 July 2024 17: 47
              Have satellites been cancelled?
              And it’s more convenient to get the rocket from a distance.

              How? Who will reach her at 70 km and five swings?
              1. +2
                28 July 2024 21: 11
                Have satellites been cancelled?

                It’s not that they would cancel it, but the villains write that Russia will have very few of them.
                Who will reach her at 70 km and five swings?

                The new “Standards” will do the trick (at least in theory). At least the MRBMs they are designed to intercept fly higher and faster.
                1. D16
                  -1
                  28 July 2024 21: 16
                  Much higher. But between space and earth they make no sense. And who did they intercept anyway?
                  1. +3
                    28 July 2024 21: 19
                    But between space and earth they make no sense.

                    70 km is the distance between space and earth. Just work for "Standards".
                    And who did they intercept anyway?

                    Has anyone tried to break through the AUG’s defenses with a hypersonic missile?
                2. D16
                  -1
                  28 July 2024 21: 35
                  You were a little mistaken in three (two) pines. SM-3 and SM-6.
                  1. +1
                    28 July 2024 21: 45
                    The SM-6 Block IB is currently in final stage development, with production expected to begin in late fiscal year 2024. The variant is to improve on the existing capabilities of the SM-6 series by incorporating a larger 21-inch diameter motor for greater range and speed. The Block IB variant is intended to achieve hypersonic speeds, making it highly effective against both aerial and surface targets.
                    In general, the capabilities of the SM-6 Block 1A have not yet been fully revealed.
                    1. D16
                      -2
                      28 July 2024 21: 56
                      Let them test it and reveal it. And X22-32-47 work in war and there have been no cases of interception yet.
                      1. +1
                        28 July 2024 21: 58
                        Well, there were no Standards there. As for interceptions, adversaries write different things. And you are a little confusing sea and ground targets.
                      2. D16
                        -2
                        28 July 2024 22: 03
                        Well, there were no Standards there.

                        They were very lucky, they couldn't screw it up like the Patriots... Yes. Sea boats move at speeds of up to 30 knots. Does it change anything? laughing
                    2. 0
                      30 July 2024 00: 05
                      Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                      The SM-6 Block IB is currently in final stage development, with production expected to begin in late fiscal year 2024. The variant is to improve on the existing capabilities of the SM-6 series by incorporating a larger 21-inch diameter motor for greater range and speed.

                      Confused. The SM-21 Block II has a diameter of 3 inches, while the SM-6 Block IB has only the launch booster with a diameter of 21 inches. Hypersound with wings...
          2. 11+
            28 July 2024 17: 44
            Quote: D16
            By the time it gets to “launch allowed” the Tu-22 will already leave the affected area.

            (heavy sigh) No one is going anywhere.
            Tu-22M3 cannot fire anti-ship missiles at maximum range. To do this, you need an external control center, which does not exist and there is no one to give it to. Therefore, in order to shoot back, they will have to go out into the visibility of their own radars, this is good if it’s 300 kilometers away. But for the AUG, a patrol has been deployed 300 km towards the potential danger, and they need to break past it. And there - AWACS.
            In general, even if ours are lucky and they are able to choose the right direction, they will be intercepted long before they reach the attack line, how long they will be able to break through... I don’t know.
            In the USSR, for reconnaissance, in addition to the space Legend, there were reconnaissance aviation regiments, dozens of Tu-95RTs and Su-24s. There is nothing now.
            In the USSR, the AUG was supposed to attack TWO MRA REGIMENTS, while before launching a missile attack it was planned to launch 8 missiles with special warheads into the area where the AUG was located. The task of these missiles was not to destroy the AUG, but to suppress their air defense and electronic warfare with an EMP pulse.
            The estimated losses could reach 80% of the personnel... Today in the Russian Federation we have ONE regiment of Tu-22M3, and even that one is trained for naval targets on a residual basis. There is nothing like the USSR training, when the Northern Fleet air division would suddenly receive an order to relocate to the Far East, and there it would receive instructions to attack a training target at a training ground. There are no old "cat and mouse" games, when the regiment would be alerted and go on a training attack on US aircraft. And if in the USSR our MRA really had a good chance of sending an AUG on a date with Neptune (here it's 50/50), now there are no such chances at all.
            1. D16
              -5
              28 July 2024 17: 53
              external control center, which does not exist and there is no one to give it to.

              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%9A%D0%A0%D0%A6_%C2%AB%D0%9B%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%C2%BB
              Estimated losses could reach up to 80% of the squad...

              Legends of the great antiquity, the times of Ochakov and the conquest of the Crimea. laughing
              1. +6
                28 July 2024 17: 58
                Quote: D16
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%9A%D0%A0%D0%A6_%C2%AB%D0%9B%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%C2%BB

                This is a pathetic parody of “Legends”, with orbits known to the whole world (knock it down - I don’t want to), and there is only ONE active reconnaissance satellite.
                In the USSR, for the normal operation of such a satellite, they were equipped with their own nuclear reactors. And even 3-4 satellites in orbit did not guarantee anything.
                Quote: D16
                Legends of the great antiquity, the times of Ochakov and the conquest of Crimea

                Right. All that remains is to remember “Yes, there were people in our time, not like the current tribe, heroes - not you.”
                Previously, losses could reach up to 80%; the chance of destroying an AUG was 50%. Now the losses will tend to 100%, the chance of ruining the AUG is 0,0001%
                And yes, the fleet used to have an air division. And now - one regiment for the whole country, which in the most ideal case will be exchanged for one AUG. Only the adversary has a lot of AUGs, but we have one regiment
                1. D16
                  -4
                  28 July 2024 18: 39
                  knock me down - I don't want to

                  This stick has many ends... laughing
                  And even 3-4 satellites in orbit did not guarantee anything.

                  Earlier.
                  And yes, the fleet used to have an air division.

                  Yes. And now a pair of X47s from afar will suffice, and a pair of X32s if someone wants something extra. laughing
                  1. +8
                    28 July 2024 19: 06
                    Quote: D16
                    And now a pair of X47 from afar and a pair of x32 will be enough

                    Well, in our country everyone has the right to choose their religion at their own discretion. Questions of faith are sacred to me laughing
                    1. D16
                      -6
                      28 July 2024 19: 16
                      Nevertheless, X32 and X47 have a good history of use in a war that cannot be called a “war with the Papuans” /
                      1. +4
                        28 July 2024 19: 39
                        Quote: D16
                        Nevertheless, X32 and X47 have a good history of use

                        For stationary targets whose coordinates are known in advance. I’m not talking about the fact that the X47 was not designed to hit moving targets at all...
                  2. 0
                    10 October 2024 18: 02
                    Judging by the stories from three years ago, you can get by with just one SU-24
                2. +6
                  28 July 2024 18: 41
                  There is no one here to explain. They wear this AUG hat.
                  1. D16
                    -3
                    28 July 2024 19: 10
                    These days, hats are fast and very heavy. If in megatons. laughing
                    1. +4
                      28 July 2024 19: 40
                      Quote: D16
                      If in megatons.

                      Sorry for the indiscreet question - how old are you?
                      1. D16
                        -4
                        28 July 2024 19: 48
                        53. Turning 54 in October. Using special. Warhead for AUG is a very charitable deed. This is a tactical weapon. the use of which will not lead to an exchange of blows across the continents. It will be far from land and the environmental consequences will be minimal.
                      2. +4
                        28 July 2024 20: 10
                        Quote: D16
                        53. Turning 54 in October.

                        Clear.
                        Quote: D16
                        Using special Warhead for AUG is a very charitable deed. This is a tactical weapon. the use of which will not lead to an exchange of blows across the continents.

                        Firstly, whatever it will lead to, this is a nuclear war. Secondly, tactical nuclear weapons are not some kind of magic wand. An AUG can be destroyed without tactical nuclear weapons if you know where it is and gather sufficient forces, but for this you need to have these forces + a developed reconnaissance system.
                        To put it mildly, we now have poor strength, and there is no intelligence at all. Without it - what with tactical nuclear weapons, what without it. I don’t know how you imagine a nuclear explosion, but a modern ship ten kilometers away will not receive significant damage. Aircraft carriers, if my sclerosis does not lie to me, are built with the expectation of surviving the explosion of tactical nuclear weapons within a range of 2-3 km.
                      3. D16
                        -2
                        28 July 2024 21: 09
                        [quote][, but a modern ship ten kilometers away will not receive significant damage. Aircraft carriers, if my sclerosis does not lie to me, are built with the expectation of surviving a tactical nuclear weapons explosion within 2-3 km./quote]
                        Why ten kilometers away and not inside?
                        [quote]however it will lead, this is a nuclear war[/quote]
                        If you want to die, continue the escalation. If you want to live, live on your own island. The choice is obvious.
                      4. +2
                        28 July 2024 23: 29
                        Quote: D16
                        Why ten kilometers away and not inside?

                        To do this you need to know where the aircraft carrier is. We do not know.
                        Quote: D16
                        If you want to die, continue the escalation. If you want to live, live on your own island.

                        It doesn't work that way. In response to our tactical nuclear weapons, in the best case scenario, they will hit their people heartily. This is if strategic nuclear forces are not immediately used. As, in fact, are we
                      5. D16
                        0
                        28 July 2024 23: 39
                        Which one exactly? Free fall bombs? lol
                        Flag in hand.
                      6. +1
                        29 July 2024 11: 32
                        Quote: D16
                        Which one exactly? Free fall bombs? lol

                        INF Treaty deployed in Europe. Was it in vain that they dragged them there?
                      7. D16
                        +2
                        29 July 2024 13: 07
                        The INF Treaty deployed in Europe.

                        In order to deploy something in Europe, it must be manufactured, tested and accepted into service. Judging by the suffering with the LGM-35A, we may not see any new Pershings. In addition, the carrier is only half the battle. They also need to develop and manufacture a special warhead. And this is a real disaster.
                      8. D16
                        +1
                        28 July 2024 23: 51
                        To do this you need to know where the aircraft carrier is. We do not know

                        It's your right not to know.
                      9. 0
                        2 September 2024 13: 58
                        "Liana" will tell you
                        ...............................
                      10. D16
                        +1
                        28 July 2024 23: 59
                        What's next on the escalation ladder? That's interesting, that's all.
                      11. 0
                        2 September 2024 13: 56
                        He will survive, but then he will not be up to the battle. He will have to return to his native Norfolk. You can't call that a victory.
                    2. 0
                      10 October 2024 18: 04
                      There is no such thing as a megaton class TNW
                3. +1
                  28 July 2024 22: 47
                  (shoot it down - I don’t want to), and there is only ONE active reconnaissance satellite.
                  In the USSR, for the normal operation of such a satellite, they were equipped with their own nuclear reactors. And even 3-4 satellites in orbit did not guarantee anything.

                  Andrey, you are a respected person. Why distort things?

                  Firstly, comparing satellites from Legend and Liana is the same as comparing optical reconnaissance satellites of the early 70s (which dropped containers with photographic film) and modern remote sensing satellites that transmit images from the other side of the Earth online. So yes, one such satellite easily replaces 4 of those old ones.
                  Secondly, the "activity" of a satellite for tracking an AUG is of no use at all (I think you understand for what purposes this is), nowadays it is impossible to ensure radio silence even for an infantry battalion, let alone an AUG, so lotuses and peonies are used for this purpose, but not for this.
                  Thirdly, why write about 3-4 Soviet satellites if 6 are already operating in orbit as part of the system.
                  Fourthly, yes, it is possible to shoot down satellites, but you yourself were laughing about tactical nuclear weapons; the destruction of such a satellite group is an incident no worse than the use of tactical nuclear weapons.
                  I could go on for a long time, so it's yours
                  This is a pathetic parody of "Legends"
                  does not stand up to any criticism.
                  Well, I won't say anything about nuclear engines on Legend satellites as a means of combating anti-satellite weapons. You're not serious about this.
                  1. -1
                    28 July 2024 23: 24
                    Quote: bk316
                    Andrey, you are a respected person. Why distort?

                    Absolutely no distortion
                    Quote: bk316
                    Well, about nuclear engines on Legend satellites as a means of combating anti-satellite weapons, I will remain silent

                    Where did I write that? :))))) It would never have occurred to me :)))))
                    The reactor was needed not for anti-satellite weapons, but to power the radar.
                    Quote: bk316
                    Firstly, comparing satellites from Legend and from Liana is the same as comparing optical reconnaissance satellites of the early 70s (which dropped containers with photographic film) and modern remote sensing satellites that transmit images from the far side of the Earth online. So yes, one such satellite easily replaces 4 of those old ones.

                    Sergey, physics is inexorable. Radar, unlike optics, is extremely dependent on the power of the emitting signal, and there is nothing to be done about it. The Legends radars operated in low orbits, which is why the satellites did not last long, and the only satellite of Liana, firstly, is remote, and secondly, it does not have a similar power source. Therefore, he a priori loses to Liana’s companions
                    Quote: bk316
                    Secondly, the “activity” of the satellite to track the AUG is not needed in FIG. (I think you understand for what purposes this is), now it is impossible to ensure radio silence even for an infantry battalion, let alone an AUG, so lotuses also serve this purpose

                    They won't cope at all. Today, passive RTR provides opportunities, not guarantees. And the AUG calmly goes into radio silence mode, this has been practiced hundreds of times. The AUG also has a mode in which its radio communications are disguised as civilian ones, while taking off and landing operations are ensured. Issuing a control center to a passive RTR... is not entirely impossible. Extremely unrealistic.
                    Quote: bk316
                    Thirdly, why write about 3-4 Soviet satellites if 6 are already operating in orbit as part of the system.

                    Because only satellites with active radar are suitable for issuing control information
                    Quote: bk316
                    Fourthly, yes, you can shoot down satellites, but you yourself were laughing about tactical nuclear weapons, the destruction of such a satellite constellation is an incident no worse than the use of tactical nuclear weapons.

                    By itself. But if war breaks out, they will try to kill them right away.
                    1. D16
                      +2
                      29 July 2024 07: 43
                      And the AUG calmly goes into radio silence mode, this has been practiced hundreds of times.

                      Will they also search for the Tu-22 in radio silence mode? lol
                      1. +1
                        29 July 2024 10: 19
                        I'm surprised by your question. Of course, but how could it be otherwise?
                        The order itself is covered in three or four layers. The first layer is a patrol consisting of AWACS, an electronic warfare aircraft and 2-4 fighters, which is located approximately 300 km from the order. They mainly rely on passive reconnaissance, which, however, cannot provide an accurate description of the targets. Therefore, if there is something strange, the AWACS turns on the radar for a couple of turns. If there is nothing terrible, then it can still turn on briefly at different intervals. That is, its radar does not work constantly and God knows where from the order. With a high degree of threat, 2 such patrols are posted at 300 and 600 km from the order.
                        These are the first two layers. The third is a radar patrol ship, 75-100 km from the order, can only rely on passive search, can periodically turn on the radar - depending on the circumstances. The fourth is an electronic warfare aircraft next to the warrant, only the passive one works.
                      2. D16
                        +2
                        29 July 2024 13: 18
                        The Hokai radar operating in the middle of the ocean during a threatened period will not give anyone the idea of ​​the need for additional reconnaissance of this area by all available means, including satellites, aircraft, submarines, UAVs, etc. Keep in mind that they will be grazed continuously anyway.
                      3. 0
                        29 July 2024 13: 45
                        The key word here is “by all available means.” I already wrote about satellites above; there is practically no hope for them. The fleet does not have reconnaissance aircraft. What will you send there? Old IL-38? A couple of fighters? In the area where the AWACS/EW patrol operates? So they will be demolished there, they won’t even have time to understand who. The fleet does not have any UAVs capable of performing this task (simply in terms of range and reconnaissance equipment). What other “available” means does the fleet have, in your opinion?
                      4. D16
                        +2
                        29 July 2024 14: 07
                        I would send a couple of Su-30SM2. This will immediately end the radio silence. Together with AWACS and electronic warfare patrols.
                      5. 0
                        29 July 2024 14: 42
                        Excuse me, did you accidentally confuse the Su-30SM2 with the Star Destroyer?
                        Airplanes with very average avionics, they will be gobbled up there and won’t wince
                      6. D16
                        +2
                        29 July 2024 14: 46
                        They have engines, radar, avionics and weapons from the Su-35. Including R-37M. So I wouldn’t bet on the F-18.
                      7. +1
                        29 July 2024 15: 06
                        It feels like you don’t know air combat tactics. I'm right?
                        If yes, then here are the explanations. In order to search for someone, you need to turn on the radar, and it gives the rated range in a very narrow field of view. But the radar will be immediately detected by the enemy's ELINT. Then the AWACS will turn on its radar, and it is much more powerful, our SPO will record the radiation, but they will not know where it is coming from. At this time, the Growler will start to put up interference, distorting the work of our Su radars. And the Hawkeye will transmit the route of the attack to the F-18, so that they do not fall into their field of view. They, without turning on the avionics, will go to the missile strike distance, and that's it.
                        The vast majority of aircraft that have been shot down in air combat over the past decades did not even realize that they were already in combat until they approached, and sometimes even before the attacking missiles exploded. Without your own AWACS and electronic warfare, you can send a Su-57, it won’t do any good.
                      8. D16
                        0
                        29 July 2024 15: 27
                        Growler and Hawkeye will be the first victims. Then it will come to the F-18s, which will become blind and deaf after Hawkeye leaves the chat. At least they will have time to find out who killed them. By the way, SPO shows both the direction and source of radiation.
                      9. 0
                        29 July 2024 15: 38
                        Clear. Sorry, but the fifth edition of the D&D rules, elves, hobbits, and other fantasy is better discussed on specialized sites. This is still a military review.
                      10. D16
                        +1
                        29 July 2024 16: 07
                        The R-37M is perfectly aimed at radiation sources. Its range is sufficient to kill AWACS and Growlers before the F-18 has the opportunity to attack. In turn, CM2 will see them earlier. The Irbis itself is like an AWACS, only the antenna does not rotate, but is rotated to increase scanning angles. So you got a little excited about the narrow viewing area. She's fine there. wink
                      11. +1
                        29 July 2024 17: 52
                        Quote: D16
                        Irbis itself as an AWACS

                        Sorry, but I absolutely don’t see the point in continuing the discussion. You have built yourself a highly entertaining picture of the world, where:
                        1) Fighters can easily land missiles on a target located hundreds of kilometers away, the location of which is unknown to them, and the missiles, of course, will reach the target, guided only by the navigation guidance system
                        2) Modern RTR and AWACS aircraft are not able to cope with airborne attack aircraft with a passive seeker, and an electronic warfare aircraft cannot knock it down with interference;
                        3) The fighter's radar is comparable in capabilities to an AWACS aircraft.
                        You are an adult and have every right to believe what you want.
                      12. D16
                        0
                        29 July 2024 18: 36
                        Fighters can easily land missiles on a target located hundreds of kilometers away, the location of which is unknown to them, and the missiles, of course, will reach the target,

                        The Irbis has a target detection range with an ESR of 3m2 on a collision course of 350-400 km. Yesterday a Mig-29 was shot down at a range of 213 km. According to Hokai, it can fly from three hundred. The R-37M was created for similar purposes.
                        Modern RTR and AWACS aircraft are not able to cope with airborne airborne attack systems with a passive seeker, and an electronic warfare aircraft cannot knock it down with interference.

                        The head there is multi-mode. Until the moment it is turned on, it flies according to an inertial guidance system, maybe with radio correction, but this is not certain. And after turning on the barjomi it’s too late to drink. It's time to leave the office. laughing Moreover, after switching on, it can emit, or it can work in passive mode. According to circumstances. Air defense radars and electronic warfare stations regularly kill with air-to-surface missiles. Although they have no aviation restrictions either in size or in energy. Doesn't this surprise you?
                        The fighter's radar is comparable in capabilities to an AWACS aircraft.

                        Of course, there is no all-round visibility, but the detection ranges are comparable. There are no orders or multiple differences there.
                      13. +1
                        29 July 2024 19: 50
                        Quote: D16
                        The Irbis has a target detection range with an ESR of 3m2 on a collision course of 350-400 km.

                        Ilya, if you want to learn how it all works, you need to go a very long way, and, to begin with, understand how radars work in general and what their range depends on. At least at the level of the simplest equations. Then you will have to delve into a lot more, but already at the moment when you understand the basics of radar, you will remember with laughter and shame how they proved on the forum that a 20 kW radar (Irbis) can be comparable to a 1 mW radar (E-2S). By the way, the modern E-2D has even more power.
                        Then you should understand how centimeter and decimeter range radars differ, and how both are weakened by weather phenomena such as humidity, rain, fog, etc. What are the advantages of centimeters and what are the advantages of decimeters? Then you will understand why AWACS use predominantly the decimeter range, and fighters use the centimeter range.
                        And then - damn it - many interesting discoveries await you! I'm even a little envious, honestly :)))))
                        Quote: D16
                        The head there is multi-mode. Until the moment it is turned on, it flies according to an inertial guidance system, maybe with radio correction, but this is not certain.

                        Ilya, everything is very simple. Launching a missile “in that direction” before the radar has captured the target and formed a command center is just money down the drain. A multi-mode active-passive seeker was created for something else. Its task is that when the fighter has captured the target, launched the missile, guided it, controlling the target’s movement, and brought it to the distance of stable capture of the active seeker, but if after all this a crappy electronic warfare aircraft intervened and began to crush it with jammers, the missile will be re-aimed at the source interference
                        And with missiles that were launched “somewhere there” with a passive seeker, both the Americans and we learned to fight like that 50 years ago, probably.
                      14. D16
                        0
                        29 July 2024 21: 14
                        Ilya, if you want to learn how it all works

                        Thank you, I became familiar with this in general terms in my youth, while I was being taught to be an operator of a meter-wave surveillance radar, so I am familiar with the advantages and disadvantages of using different wavelengths.
                        Radar with a power of 1 mW (E-2S)

                        I didn't know this. Probably it has its own turbogenerator as a power source.
                        Launching a rocket "in that direction"

                        You thought of this for me. For the Irbis radar, neither the Hornet nor the Hawkeye are invisible, and they will be detected three to four hundred kilometers away and fired upon by the RVV-BD.
                        And with missiles that were launched “somewhere there” with a passive seeker, both the Americans and we learned to fight

                        Probably due to the great simplicity of KHARMs in the North Military District they regularly intercept Shells and Torahs.
                      15. 0
                        30 July 2024 01: 06
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        с Radar station with power 1 mW (E-2C). By the way, the modern E-2D has even more power.

                        Hm...:
                        Engines: 2× Allison T56-A-425, 2×3661 kW


                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        and how both are weakened by weather conditions such as humidity, rain, fog, etc.

                        This is important for ground-based radars. At the altitudes discussed, other than rain, it has virtually no effect.
                      16. 0
                        30 July 2024 07: 26
                        Quote: Comet
                        2×3661 kW

                        Since 1 mW = 1000 kW, then 2x3661 kW = 7,3 mW
                        And?
                      17. 0
                        31 July 2024 22: 45
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: Comet
                        2×3661 kW

                        Since 1 mW = 1000 kW, then 2x3661 kW = 7,3 mW
                        And?

                        Have you decided to convert kilowatts to megawatts? And we are talking about what is included in the range formula.
                      18. +1
                        31 July 2024 22: 47
                        (heavy sigh) And what is in your range formula?
                      19. 0
                        31 July 2024 23: 02
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        (heavy sigh) And what is in your range formula?

                        Why are you discussing radar if you ask what is included in the range formula?
                      20. 0
                        30 July 2024 00: 31
                        Quote: D16
                        According to Hokai, it can fly from three hundred. The R-37M was created for similar purposes.

                        I note that there is no official data on the launch range of the R-37M, unlike the RVV-BD. But the R-37 hit a target at a range of 304 km back in 1994.
                      21. D16
                        0
                        29 July 2024 16: 20
                        D&D, elves, hobbits, and other fantasy

                        Is it easier to believe in hobbits than to believe that the entire patrol will be detected by fighters in a timely manner?
                      22. 0
                        30 July 2024 00: 25
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        To look for someone, you need to turn on the radar, and it gives out the passport range in a very narrow field of view.

                        What is this “narrow” zone in height and horizon at the rated range?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Then the AWACS will turn on its radar, and it is much more powerful, our SPO will detect the radiation, but they will not know where it comes from.

                        What physical phenomenon will not allow our open source software to find out where the “recorded” “irradiation” is coming from?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        At this time, Growler will begin to interfere, distorting the operation of our Su's radar systems.

                        1. What kind of interference effect “distorts the operation of the radar of our control systems”?
                        2. What will be the relative angular position of the AWACS, Growler and our Su in all this action and how will it change? How will the relative positions of aircraft change over time?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And Hokai will transmit the attack route to the F-18

                        And include a Su board with SAP-14 in the group.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Those, without including avionics, will come within missile strike range, and that’s all.

                        Those without turning on the avionics will not even be able to take off, much less fly and get within missile strike range.
                      23. -1
                        30 July 2024 17: 33
                        Quote: Comet
                        What is this “narrow” zone in height and horizon at the rated range?

                        Who knows? The rated range is set to the maximum power pulse; the search mode is usually carried out in a more gentle mode. But the ranges are not indicated on it in the passport.
                        Quote: Comet
                        What physical phenomenon will not allow our open source software to find out where the “recorded” “irradiation” is coming from?

                        The capabilities of the open source software make it possible to determine only a certain sector in which the emitting object is located. An object that emits periodically, while shifting, cannot be determined with an accuracy that allows it to give a central point.
                        Quote: Comet
                        What kind of interference effect “distorts the operation of the radar of our control systems”?

                        Normal interference distorting the signal returning to the radar
                        Quote: Comet
                        What will be the relative angular position of AWACS, Growler and our Su in all this action and how will it change

                        Weird question. Don't you understand that it can turn out to be anything depending on the circumstances of the meeting?
                        Quote: Comet
                        And include a Su board with SAP-14 in the group.

                        AND? How will it help you? Firstly, SAP-14 is electronic warfare, not RTR, and secondly, it is not very effective.
                        Quote: Comet
                        Those without including avionics will not even be able to take off

                        Thanks, Cap. This meant avionics, recognized by the fighter’s standard RTR means
                      24. 0
                        31 July 2024 23: 12
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Who knows?

                        Then why are you writing about this if you don’t know?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Certified range

                        Actually, there is no such thing.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        is assigned to the maximum power pulse, the search mode is usually carried out in a more gentle way.

                        This is just nonsense. Even without radar... How much power do you change when you control the volume (but don't turn it off) on your TV, audio system?
                      25. -1
                        31 July 2024 23: 24
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The capabilities of the open source software make it possible to determine only a certain sector in which the emitting object is located. An object that emits periodically, while shifting, cannot be determined with an accuracy that allows it to give a central point.

                        Nonsense, from start to finish.
                        1. According to RTR data, the moment the radar is turned on for radiation and the coordinate area in which additional search for targets will be carried out is determined.
                        2. The PRR hits an object that emits periodically, moving at the same time.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Weird question. Don't you understand that it can turn out to be anything depending on the circumstances of the meeting?

                        The question is strange for you, because you are unfamiliar with the subject of discussion. In order for the jammer to cover the object from the radar, all three of them must have a certain relative position. Otherwise, the jammer will be useless.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        AND? How will it help you? Firstly, SAP-14 is electronic warfare,

                        Just in the range of the AWACS radar.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        secondly, it is not very effective.

                        What does "too effective" mean? How is efficiency determined and what is its gradation?
            2. -1
              4 August 2024 18: 58
              There is no need to tell fairy tales. They never sent regiments to AMG. Maximum in pairs. Yes, and the MRA on the Far East theater was not capable of fighting the AMG without the support of a 30 VA VGK (YES)
              1. +1
                4 August 2024 19: 27
                Don't talk nonsense, it hurts. They went to the AUG in pairs either for reconnaissance, or when the regiments had already given up their lives.
  11. 18+
    28 July 2024 09: 04
    I'll start with the obvious. An air-launched missile with a range of 450 km has an advantage when firing at 300 km over a missile with a range of 300 km.
    The whole point is that the target can use all sorts of maneuvers, move, etc. In order to respond to this in time, the rocket needs a decent thrust-to-weight ratio. But in modern missile launchers, the engine does not work the entire flight time, but only part of it, then the rocket flies thanks to the accumulated energy - the maximum range is usually indicated at the distance where the engine no longer works. But, naturally, during intensive maneuvering this energy will be quickly wasted, but if the fuel has not yet run out, then there is no problem.
    Respected commentators have already written about the second - external control center. I completely agree, that's how it is
    Well, a little detail - since the days of AN/SPY-1 a lot of water has already passed under the bridge, AN/SPY-3, AN/SPY-6 appeared...
    1. D16
      -5
      28 July 2024 15: 54
      An air-launched missile with a range of 450 km has an advantage when firing at 300 km over a missile with a range of 300 km.

      And who would fire an air-to-air missile at an AUG? lol
      1. +3
        28 July 2024 16: 20
        Quote: D16
        And who would fire an air-to-air missile at an AUG?

        What? :))))) Where did you see the AUG as a target for the URVV in my post?
        1. D16
          -4
          28 July 2024 16: 52
          missile with a range of 300 km

          Are you talking about RVV or anti-ship missiles?
          1. +3
            28 July 2024 16: 57
            Quote: D16
            Are you talking about RVV or anti-ship missiles?

            Ilya, the comment says it more than clearly
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            URVV with a range of 450 km

            URVV - Guided Air-to-Air Missile
            1. D16
              -3
              28 July 2024 17: 07
              Carrier F/A-18. Deck-based aviation. Remember about the best air defense tanks at the enemy airfield? wink Instead of the X32-22-47 tank. And why is a new rocket better if it does not solve the old main problem?
              1. +5
                28 July 2024 17: 17
                Quote: D16
                Instead of the X32-22-47 tank. And why is a new rocket better if it does not solve the old main problem?

                Ilya, the Americans solved this problem a long time ago, and for this they don’t really need the SM-6. With it, solving this problem is even easier, that’s all
                1. D16
                  -2
                  28 July 2024 17: 20
                  The Americans solved this problem a long time ago

                  Have you just decided? And How?
                  1. +5
                    28 July 2024 17: 21
                    By destroying carriers before reaching the missile launch line, of course
                    1. D16
                      +1
                      28 July 2024 21: 26
                      And let's count laughing . The speed of the F-18 with a full load, the detection range of the Tu-22M3 and the launch range of the current X32-47 and the ability of the Tu22 to go supersonic when retreating.
                      1. -1
                        28 July 2024 23: 27
                        Quote: D16
                        And let's count

                        I have already given you the calculation above. A regular AUG patrol is located 300 km in the direction of a potential threat, that is, the Tu-22M3 will have to go straight to it. And they will be discovered long before their release.
                      2. D16
                        +1
                        28 July 2024 23: 35
                        Great idea. There are 700 kilometers left until the X32 launch point. But the X47s will fire earlier, and hypothetically there is nowhere to land.
                      3. -1
                        29 July 2024 10: 24
                        There is none left, the planes cannot shoot at maximum range - they don’t know where. I repeat once again, there is no one to give external control center to.
                      4. D16
                        +1
                        29 July 2024 14: 19
                        Naval fighters arrived and the patrol ended. Everything was noisy and spinning. Passive reconnaissance satellites showed radiation sources. This is if the active one does not find them first. What will happen then, do you think of it yourself?
                      5. -1
                        29 July 2024 14: 44
                        Only not the patrol, but the arriving planes have ended. Without starting. And that's it
                      6. D16
                        +1
                        29 July 2024 14: 48
                        Where does such confidence in the F/A-18 come from?
                      7. -1
                        29 July 2024 15: 08
                        Unsubscribed below. It's not the fighter that wins, it's the system that wins
                      8. 0
                        4 August 2024 19: 06
                        So what? The tactics included air cover for combat formations with MIG-31 and SU-27 fighters, which would engage a pair of AMG air patrols in combat, the AMG AEW board would be suppressed by electronic warfare systems or shot down. The raid was carried out by 3 missile carrier regiments in a 180-degree sector from three directions. And yes, the Aegis X-22 does not take on dive bombers. True, all this concerned the Soviet Army. I can’t assume what now.
                      9. 0
                        4 August 2024 19: 59
                        Quote: Ulum
                        And what? The tactics included air cover of battle formations by MIG-31 and SU-27 fighters

                        And that too. The tactics provided for the presence of means and forces capable of identifying at least the approximate location of the enemy, which is not the case now.
                        Quote: Ulum
                        The raid was carried out by 3 missile carrier regiments

                        You just wrote that you flew in twos
                        Quote: Ulum
                        And yes, the Aegis X 22 does not take off during the dive phase.

                        Checked by you personally?:)))))
                      10. 0
                        29 July 2024 19: 12
                        Quote: D16
                        And let's count laughing . The speed of the F-18 with a full load, the detection range of the Tu-22M3 and the launch range of the current X32-47 and the ability of the Tu22 to go supersonic when retreating.

                        Well, let's. The takeoff of any strategist, and even the Mig-31I/K, is detected instantly by the Americans due to the fact that they have 24/7 surveillance of their home airfields. Next, the direction and possible targets are specified based on the range of the aircraft itself and the performance characteristics of its weapons. And then, if there is an aircraft carrier in the direction of the possible attack sector, it begins an evasive maneuver, raises the F-18 in the required quantity, raises the TK, moves the Hawkeye in the desired direction and calmly knocks down the fat geese from the X-32 before reaching launch range. Well, and the Dagger... So far, the attack on Avik with this missile is from the realm of rumors from the OBS agency.
                      11. D16
                        0
                        29 July 2024 23: 19
                        The takeoff of any strategist, and even the Mig-31I/K, is detected instantly by the Americans due to the fact that they have 24/7 surveillance of their home airfields.

                        Do not confuse the realities of the NWO and the threatened period. No one will let the Poseidon newts hang out off the coast. Even despite this impunity, the air raid signal in Ukraine often sounds after the arrival of X-47, 32.
                        The Tu-22M3 group will reach the launch range a couple of hours after takeoff, the MiG-31K even earlier. The aircraft carrier needs to lift the planes, and they, with the ammunition and fuel, need to reach the missile launch range. Do you think they'll make it? And the fat geese may not come alone. laughing
                        Dagger... So far, the attack on Avik with this missile is from the realm of rumors from the OBS agency.

                        Did the X-22 32 sink many aircraft carriers? Nevertheless, they proved themselves quite well in the war.
                      12. 0
                        29 July 2024 23: 31
                        Quote: D16
                        Do not confuse the realities of the NWO and the threatened period. No one will let the Poseidon newts hang out off the coast.

                        You are confusing something)) Triton-Poseidons are not currently involved in controlling the locations of the SA))
                        Quote: D16
                        The Tu-22M3 group will reach the launch distance a couple of hours after takeoff, the Mig-31K even earlier

                        Geography textbook and atlas to help you)))
                        Quote: D16
                        The aircraft carrier needs to scramble the planes, and they, with ammunition and fuel, need to get within missile launch range.

                        Easy))) the speeds are comparable, and the operating protocols of the US aircraft carrier will help you)) I was not too lazy to read it a long time ago, all the time intervals, launch frequency, etc. are listed there. Don't think that the US military is dumber than us. In comparison with them, much that concerns the war at sea only evokes an acute feeling of “Spanish shame”))
                        Quote: D16
                        And the fat geese may not come alone.

                        Yeah, the gliders will be taken on a trailer))
                        Quote: D16
                        Did the X-22 32 sink many aircraft carriers? Nevertheless, they proved themselves quite well in the war.

                        In what war? strikes on stationary targets on the ground and strikes on sea targets are different)) especially if these targets are covered not by a fig leaf but by a full-fledged layered air defense-missile defense system represented by AWACS, aviation and URO destroyers (which we still do not have and do not expect) So these are bullshit recommendations))
                      13. D16
                        0
                        31 July 2024 08: 26
                        Geography textbook and atlas to help you)))

                        Do you propose to fly from Olenya to the Barents and Norwegian Seas via the South Pole? It is not necessary to meet AUG off the coast of America.
                        In what war? strikes against stationary targets on the ground and strikes against sea targets are different))

                        Exactly. Targets on the ground are much less radio-contrast.
                        Air defense-missile defense represented by AWACS, aviation and guided missile destroyers

                        1. They haven’t shot down anything like this yet. There are not even target simulators with similar characteristics and flight profile.
                        2. There were serious problems with supersonic missiles.
                        Yeah, the gliders will be taken on a trailer))

                        Naval aviation fighters are also FSE request
                        You are confusing something)) Triton-Poseidons are not currently involved in controlling the locations of the SA))

                        Do satellites or spies determine the flight route?
                      14. +1
                        30 July 2024 10: 43
                        Quote: D16
                        The Tu-22M3 group will reach the launch range a couple of hours after takeoff, the Mig-31K even earlier.

                        I’m wondering what group of Tu-22M3 are we talking about? Are our long-rangers starting to work on naval targets?
                        It seems that half of the commentators are not aware that the MRA died a long time ago, and the DA works exclusively in the interests of the Ground Forces - on stationary objects with known coordinates.
    2. 0
      30 July 2024 01: 44
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      I'll start with the obvious. An air-launched missile with a range of 450 km has an advantage when firing at 300 km over a missile with a range of 300 km.

      Nothing like that, it’s completely unobvious. It may be the other way around.
      Hint here:
      https://missilery.info/missile/r24
      1. 0
        30 July 2024 07: 35
        We are simple people, we don’t understand hints. It’s good that you wrote directly in the next comment, but if you were to hint, how could I understand that you don’t know how to convert kW to mW?
        1. 0
          31 July 2024 23: 01
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          It’s good that you wrote directly in the next comment, but if you were to hint, how could I understand that you don’t know how to convert kW to mW?

          Are you seriously? Have you decided that we are talking about converting kilowatts to megawatts? Oh well...
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          We are simple people, we don’t understand hints.

          It says "controlled flight time". It determines the flight range along with the reference trajectory. 9M96E2 and 9M317ME have the same maximum speed, but the range of 9M96E2 is 120 km, and 9M317ME is 65 km. And which of them will have an advantage at a range of 50 km cannot be determined based on these data.
  12. BAI
    +7
    28 July 2024 09: 18
    question again: what’s the point in having a missile range of 450 km if the aircraft’s radar operates at a three times shorter range?

    The point is that target designation will be from AWACS.
  13. 17+
    28 July 2024 09: 55
    Roman Viktorovich is once again trying to pass off wishful thinking... The “stupid” Yankees are not stupid at all, author. What kind of self-confident and unteachable clown do you have to be to produce a fireworks display of stupidity and absurdity in almost every article? Or is the question not about the author’s illiteracy, but about the need to conduct jingoistic propaganda? Thus, bad propaganda is more dangerous than its complete absence.
    The SM-6 has a stated range of 450 km, and the F-18 radar can see at 150? So this means that at 120-130 km the probability of hitting any CC will be close to 1.0 and no anti-missile maneuvers will help - the SIM card’s CE reserve will allow it to destroy any enemy at these ranges. And this is very unpleasant for the target and very bad for the hunter.
    This is a huge, colossal advantage. And with a "relay" transfer of the control center, you can try to fly 450 km - with less efficiency, but still.
    The Yankees are not fools. But the author is a saboteur, because he allows himself to mock a really strong, competent and dangerous opponent.
    1. Eug
      +5
      28 July 2024 10: 42
      100%, the use of the missile is clearly planned with the transfer of control to the means for whom it is now convenient and safe. The appearance of this missile on Shershni is very unpleasant news.
    2. 0
      28 July 2024 19: 35
      Quote: Ingenegr
      Or is the question not about the author’s illiteracy, but about the need to conduct jingoistic propaganda? Thus, bad propaganda is more dangerous than its complete absence.

      Read the comments of D16 - you will understand for whom...
      Looks like "16" is his age.
      1. 0
        28 July 2024 20: 40
        Looks like "16" is his age.

        No, this is the result of the Wechsler test.
    3. -3
      28 July 2024 20: 44
      Well, the SU-57 has a radar that can see and designate targets at 400 km, and the missile flies at 300 km, so who will notice who before the F-18 or Su-57? Or do you think the F-18 AWACS will help? Is not a fact.
      1. 0
        28 July 2024 21: 24
        who will notice the f-18 or su-57 first?

        Only F-18 - here they are, and Su-57 - where and how many?
        1. D16
          0
          28 July 2024 21: 44
          Last year 12, this year 24.
          1. -2
            28 July 2024 21: 47
            For all theaters. How many F-18s?
      2. D16
        0
        28 July 2024 21: 48
        who will notice the f-18 or su-57 first?

        What are the chances of the Su-57 meeting the F-18?
        1. -1
          28 July 2024 21: 55
          That's right - very small.
          1. D16
            0
            28 July 2024 21: 59
            Stupidity. Where? Where will the AUG go in combat-ready condition?
            1. -1
              28 July 2024 22: 00
              What nonsense? That there are only 57 Su-24s in the whole country? Are there hundreds of F-18s? And look at the map. We are surrounded by unsinkable "aircraft carriers" on all sides, which makes life much easier for the enemy and makes it more difficult for us.
              1. D16
                0
                28 July 2024 22: 07
                So where will the AUG reach in combat-ready condition? I'm burning with curiosity. smile
  14. +4
    28 July 2024 10: 16
    which the Navy now calls XAIM-147B - Airborne SM-6
    Chaim... Isn't there anti-Semitism here?
    1. +9
      28 July 2024 10: 22
      Quote: bk0010
      Chaim... Isn't there anti-Semitism here?

      I’ll tell you for your interest: in the US Navy, only the admiral - the commander of the US fleet forces - decides who is Jewish and who is not.
  15. Eug
    +1
    28 July 2024 10: 37
    I was the only one who was confused by the confusion - sometimes 174, sometimes 147, sometimes SIM, sometimes SM...
  16. 0
    28 July 2024 11: 09
    When our A-50 was shot down, the joy of victory first manifested itself through the Air Force.
    Wasn’t this the rocket they used that the others couldn’t reach?
  17. +1
    28 July 2024 11: 13
    They adapted the finished product, which is much cheaper. Again, if we are talking about “assistance” in guidance through the Aegis, then we do not forget that the same “Burkes” have 96 cells in the air defense system; the aircraft can act as a “flying” cell, saving missiles. He took off from the aircraft carrier, launched the missile “somewhere there”, the missile was taken “for escort” by some “Burke” from the aircraft carrier’s escort. The cellars on an aircraft carrier will be more spacious. In case of a massive raid, Burke will need its own missiles.
    And also about the excessive range. Who’s stopping you from putting a search trajectory into the program? A rocket flies to the desired area, there is no target - it flies like a snake or in a circle. In short, the range reserve won't hurt. And if we use a missile against a ground target, then the unburned fuel in flight will be an additional damaging factor, remember the Falklands War.
    1. -1
      28 July 2024 16: 05
      Who’s stopping you from putting a search trajectory into the program? A rocket flies to the desired area, there is no target - it flies like a snake or in a circle.

      The SM-6 contains precisely this algorithm for searching for over-the-horizon targets. There have been reports of trials of this regime.
      14.08.2014/6/XNUMX Successful launch of an SM-XNUMX missile against a low-flying subsonic target flying over land. The missile, launched at the commands of the carrier ship to the expected location of the target, independently carried out a search and hit the target. At the same time, the ability of the ARGSN missile to successfully counteract interference from the underlying surface was demonstrated.
    2. 0
      28 July 2024 16: 28
      Quote: Not the fighter
      A rocket flies to the desired area, there is no target - it flies like a snake or in a circle.

      I would look at a three-mach rocket flying in a circle.
      1. -1
        28 July 2024 21: 27
        I would look at a three-mach rocket flying in a circle.

        See.
        1. 0
          29 July 2024 11: 02
          Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
          See.

          It seems to me that at the moment depicted she is not flying in a circle, but along a trajectory more reminiscent of a cycloid.
    3. +1
      29 July 2024 02: 18
      Quote: Not the fighter
      A rocket flies to the desired area, there is no target - it flies like a snake or in a circle.

      The aerodynamic quality is unknown to you. As is the relationship between speed, overload and the radius of the “circle”.
      Quote: Not the fighter
      In short, the range reserve won't hurt.

      The range is determined by the trajectory and the supply of onboard energy to power the onboard systems of the rocket.
  18. +2
    28 July 2024 13: 17
    Commenting on something essentially is simply spoiling Roman's "hurray-epos", which clearly reflects the entire worldview of our leadership.
  19. +2
    28 July 2024 13: 29
    I wanted to write something, but my predecessors had already written everything regarding the propagandist’s explanation. It’s nice that the author mentioned the MiG-31, thanks to which “we did it first.” I recommend checking how many MiG-31s ​​are in service and how many F-18s are in US service.
  20. -2
    28 July 2024 13: 50
    This whole performance is purely for its audience, and this audience is Papuans, blacks, Arabs. And not because I personally have anything against them. It just happened that way historically. Climate, culture, religion, society. That is, there are many reasons why they will never get out of the period of stagnation and dependence. Of course, times change and, as North Korea and Iran have shown, anything is possible. But it is still a very difficult path. So the level of weapons of the United States and allies has not changed. The vector and nature of PR has changed. That's all.
  21. The comment was deleted.
    1. +1
      28 July 2024 20: 57
      Well, for this we only have Onix-M for 800 km and Zircon for 1000 km, they have good heads with homing, even from 70 km they can search for a moving target themselves. This is Onix, I don't know what Zircon has, it's clearly even better.
  22. +1
    28 July 2024 20: 25
    Some obvious double standards. Previously they wrote that a Su35 can shoot down an F16 without entering the range of its missiles. And for some reason, the F16 cannot go anywhere during the rocket’s flight.
  23. 0
    28 July 2024 21: 12
    The direction of fire will be taken based on information from AWACS, and then it'll be a matter of luck.
    1. 0
      29 July 2024 09: 11
      What AWACS, believe me, the importance of AWACS aircraft in the current reality is greatly exaggerated. The most powerful armed conflict since WWII is underway, so where are your AWACS? They fly deep in Poland, what are they illuminating there, flocks of cranes are probably watching and they are slightly capturing Belarus and Western Ukraine. That is, weapons worth billions of dollars like the Patriot air defense system are given willingly, but AWACS, which is so necessary near the LBS line so that the Ukrainians could really turn the tide, are not given, i.e. to illuminate carriers like the Su-34 "bombs with wings" from afar, and not to turn on radars near the LBS. It seems that we don't have super-long-range missiles, except for the R-37M at 300 km and the 40N6 at 380 km, i.e. AVAKS can easily fly up to the LBS line at 450-500 km and provide illumination, but you see fear. Now think about why..
      1. 0
        29 July 2024 18: 04
        Quote: Alex Starley
        AWACS, which is so necessary near the LBS line, so that the Ukrainians can really turn the situation around, do not allow

        Because AWACS will not be able to change the situation
        Quote: Alex Starley
        to highlight from afar carriers of the Su-34 type “bombs with wings”

        From how far? Our Su-34s drop bombs from distances that the front-line air defense systems of the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot reach.
        Quote: Alex Starley
        Avax can fly up to the LBS line at 450-500 km without straining and provide illumination

        First, they need to be closer. Secondly, well, let’s say they recorded the approach of the Su-34. What's next? Wave at them? Ours do not enter the air defense range of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The Ukrainian Armed Forces do not have fighters capable of fighting our planes over our territory. So what is the profit from AWACS?
        1. +1
          29 July 2024 18: 56
          Maybe I'm not such an expert as you, I used to be a head of the S-300 calculation, but the AWACS can see up to 650 km easily and can illuminate in depth at 150-200 km from the LBS line in our direction, remaining as if inaccessible to our known missiles, which I described above (but according to some rumors, there are also unknown missiles that fly much further), the SU-34 fly closer and much closer to the LBS line at about 60-100 km. The problem is that the Ukrainian Air Defense radar may not be pulled to the LBS line, but only the launchers, they are less visible and do not illuminate and receive targeting from the AWACS. Well, regarding the turning point, the Sukhois would start falling and the "bombs with wings" hated by the Ukrainians would sharply decrease and the negotiation process would possibly swing towards the US conditions.
          But you really didn't get the idea as an adherent of the "holy AWACS", which like chip and dale will come to the aid of fighters on the front line. No way it will come to the aid of any F-18. These are expensive toys, there are tens of times fewer of them, they cost tens of times more, they take tens of times longer to make, they may be good enough for exercises. Moreover, the hunt will primarily go for these AWACS planes by all available means.
          1. 0
            29 July 2024 19: 12
            Quote: Alex Starley
            SU-34s fly closer and much closer to the LBS line, somewhere around 60-100 km.

            And how do you propose to pick them out from there?
            Quote: Alex Starley
            but only PU, they are less noticeable and do not reflect and receive the control center from Avax.

            Tell us how you, the head of the S-300 crew, propose to aim semi-active missiles at the control center from Avax, please.
            Quote: Alex Starley
            These are expensive toys, there are ten times fewer of them, they cost ten times more.

            Instead of a thousand words
            In November 2015, the US Navy awarded Northrop Grumman a contract worth $151,31 million to produce the first E-2D Advanced Hawkeye for Japan. In July 2016, an agreement worth $163,95 million was signed with the company for the construction of a second aircraft. In June 2018, a contract worth $153,24 million was signed with Northrop Grumman for the supply of the third E-2D, and on September 5, 2018, a contract worth $164,326 million was signed for the supply of the fourth vehicle.

            That is, the newest Advance costs approximately the same as 2-3 multirole fighters
            1. 0
              29 July 2024 20: 00
              So you didn't quite understand my story), in the first comment I wrote a theoretical presentation of how NATO advertising brochures use AWACS in armed conflicts, which is almost impossible to achieve in real combat conditions in the theater of military operations. And your questions about using AWACS on LBS are also correct and I myself will give several more reasons that AWACS is useless in the theater of military operations, except for flying in Poland). But soon the Swedish AWACS should be delivered to Ukraine, we'll see how they use it.
        2. 0
          29 July 2024 19: 13
          And I cited Ukraine as an example, the largest conflict since WWII, and all sorts of AWACS are flying in Europe. Believe me, as soon as the conflict in Taiwan begins, all the AWACS will be blown away by the wind somewhere to the California coast))
  24. +2
    28 July 2024 22: 08
    IMHO, the author of an ordinary piece of news is organizing a circus and “I can overcome”
    Fu
  25. -1
    29 July 2024 08: 29
    Since the seeker is inherited from the AIM-120 AMRAAM, and there is data on this missile, the AIM-120 AMRAAM seeker is capable of detecting a target with an ESR of about 3 m² at ranges of about 16-18 km.

    It can be assumed that the Americans did not simply install the AIM-120 head, but increased the antenna diameter, which increases the capture range.
  26. +1
    29 July 2024 09: 16
    It's not 1500 kg. they hang, not the entire ship’s missile defense system, but 600-800 kg. Minus the starting accelerator. Still a lot. It seems that the R-37 impressed some people so much that they began to bite their elbows, remembering the Phoenix and the canceled long-range air-to-air missile "Phoenix" to replace it. 130-150 km. - this is for fighters. For some carcass like the A-50 it will be twice as much. The Americans were afraid of the R-37 primarily against their tankers, AWACS, RTR aircraft, and so on.
  27. 0
    29 July 2024 14: 40
    Maybe this rocket was made just for Ukraine? The plane aims at an airfield with heavy air traffic and launches a missile. The rocket will find something on the last leg of its flight....
  28. +1
    29 July 2024 18: 56
    Air-to-air madhouse

    The title perfectly reflects the content, I would add: a fool with hard drugs. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen such mind-boggling thoughts spurred on by drugs...
  29. 0
    29 July 2024 22: 06
    Here I remember something long forgotten - the Yao is of low power and there is no need to send a fleet in response, it’s economical, aviation can easily carry out a fleet with a Yao of low power.
  30. -1
    31 July 2024 20: 30
    Ships, like tanks, are becoming a thing of the past, new systems need to be developed!
  31. 0
    31 July 2024 23: 03
    The author himself answered his own question, but did not understand it.
    The radar sees at 300 km.
    While the missile flies this 300, the target will fly another 100, if from the ship.
    Question for 3rd grade - how long does the rocket need to fly to the target?
  32. +1
    19 August 2024 16: 24
    ...There is AN/APG-73 (on old modifications) or AN/APG-79 (on new E/F). The range of the first is 110 km, the range of the second is 150 km. And again the question: is there any point in having a missile range of 450 km if the aircraft’s radar operates at a three times shorter range?

    This is “not entirely true”: for AN/APG-79, 150 km is the range at which this radar sees a target with ESR = 1 m². And the so-called instrumental range, at which detection of air targets is impossible in principle, maybe 400 km, maybe 500 km - that’s how the designers will try:
    The detection range against a 1m² (0 dBsm) target is about 150 km.
    from here:
    https://turdef.com/article/usmc-tests-ris-s-apg-79v4-gan-aesa-radar-on-fa-18-hornet
    This applies to all modern airborne radars, today they give (as a rule) this same range for a standard target of 1 m². For the APG-81 F-35 it is 160 km, for the APG-77 F-22 it is 225 km, etc., while the instrumental range of the F-22 is more than 500 km.
    Accordingly, the Su-30 aircraft with an RCS of ~15 m² will see the AN/APG-79 radar at 150*√√15 = 295 km, and the Tu-22M3 missile carrier, with an RCS at an angle of 3/4 ~35 m² will be visible at 150*√√35 = 365 km. And accordingly, a missile can be launched at these ranges.
    Secondly: the declared range of 460 km is the range when the fighter and its target are moving towards each other at an altitude of 11 km and both at speeds of 0.9M (265 m/s = 956 km/h). But if the launch is made at the target "in pursuit", then the maximum range will be significantly less, in fact three times less. Therefore, there will be no extra energy for the air-to-air missile.