FPV drone as the main problem of modern warfare. We urgently need to resolve the issue with kamikaze drones

295
FPV drone as the main problem of modern warfare. We urgently need to resolve the issue with kamikaze drones

After the material about the changes that the use of the latest or previously little-used weapons systems brought to the tactics and strategy of modern combat, a discussion broke out about how to stop one of the most dangerous threats to fighters and equipment - drones in general and especially FPV drones.

Many readers have correctly noted the fact that at the present stage it is these systems that cause the greatest damage to manpower and equipment in the LBS. Alas, the army (more precisely, the army, since the same problem faces almost all armies in the world) was not ready to confront FPV drones.



At the present stage there are no systems at the forefront Defense, who would work successfully on these drones. Regimental air defense systems, Strela-10 or Tunguska, work well against helicopters, attack aircraft and even against army aviation, shoot down reconnaissance drones operating at low altitudes. However, they are completely ineffective against FPV drones.

That is why a strange situation has developed at LBS. Air defense systems, which are designed to protect the front line, i.e. fighters on the line of combat contact, are moved to the rear. Thus, the old principle works - help yourself. Invent, invent, if you want to survive...

I won't be revealing a big secret if I say that more than half of our army's losses (in some areas) are precisely the result of the actions of these drones. The army has no means of combating FPV drones. But our soldiers have some successful inventions. For example, the famous "king-barbecue", танк, which became the father of many combat vehicles and weapons systems...

So I will make public a thought that is seditious for some. Quite often I come across comments from narrow-minded “experts” that the problems that readers discuss in the comments are just verbiage that has no practical significance.

So, the problem of FPV drones raised by readers is not even tactical, but strategic!

Do commanders today have the opportunity to organize a tank attack using a more or less significant tank unit? And an attack with large infantry forces?

No! In open areas, most of the equipment or personnel will be hit by FPV drones! This means that the use of these weapons affects not only tactics, but also strategy! And our readers understand this very well.

Why is it difficult to shoot down an FPV drone?


Again, I will not reveal a big secret if I say that the appearance of a large number of units of drone operators in some area is a signal for intelligence that something is planned there. If you look at the database map today, this fact becomes obvious. Where it's hot, there's a lot of calculations for FPV drone operators.

Let's start with the main question, the answer to which may determine the path to finding opportunities to counter these drones.

Why is it so difficult to destroy FPV drones?

I see at least three main factors.

Firstly, the speed of the drone, which practically makes it impossible to shoot down this drone in the same way as reconnaissance drones are shot down by small arms weapons. Moreover, it is speed that allows you to effectively fight drone hunters. I am far from sure that such a shooter will remain unscathed after a duel with an FPV drone.

Secondly, maneuverability. It is this maneuverability combined with speed that makes the drone so dangerous. The operator can correct the drone at a relatively short distance to the target, or even change the target at the last moment.

Thirdly, there are a large number of drones in the sky, which practically makes it impossible for personnel to identify kamikaze drones using drone detectors.

Guys from the front line often say that the detector beeps like crazy due to the presence of different types of drones in the air, and it is almost impossible to identify kamikaze dorons. Therefore, it is impossible to prepare for defense.

There is, however, one means that ideally can fight a kamikaze. This is an anti-drone gun.

Theoretically, this gun will actually be able to deprive the drone of communication with the operator and thereby lose the target. But this is a theory. The reality is that this is only possible if two components coincide.

First, you need to tune the gun to the frequencies that FPV drone operators operate on. There are already attempts to modify factory-made guns to combat kamikazes. And quite successful. But there is no mass use of such guns yet. The reason for this situation is not due to any delays on the part of commanders and superiors, but to the speed of the drone.

Secondly, the same speed that I wrote about in the previous paragraph. In order to shoot down an FPV drone, the hunter must be prepared to face it. Like a skeet shooting exercise. Ready, I see the goal!

That is, the hunter must always have a gun with him, but also in a combat position, ready to open fire. Almost the same duel that I wrote about above, when the hunter used a regular rifle.

Well, about how the guys at the LBS adapted to defend themselves from kamikaze drones.

Alas, the same famous... tsar-mangal still dominates here, but in different variations. Both the equipment and the dugouts are protected by steel mesh, pieces of reinforcement, gratings made from scrap material, i.e., everything that can take a kamikaze strike.

Effective? My answer is this: relatively effective. If we get lucky. And if the FPV drone operates alone. The series almost always ends with the victory of the drones...

What are designers thinking about?


It is clear that this situation does not suit either the military, or the leadership of the Ministry of Defense, or scientists and designers. Effective means of combating kamikaze drones are needed. And in general with drones as such.

Now let’s return to what I wrote in the previous material, which prompted the discussion of this topic.

Any drone is only effective if it is controlled. And it’s not just controllable, but also has feedback from the operator, which allows the latter to quickly respond to the situation on the battlefield.

Connection! Here is the key to these dirty tricks. We deprive them of communication, block all possible frequencies, and the drone will turn into an ordinary projectile.

What systems can do this?

EW! We are accustomed to the fact that electronic warfare systems are bulky structures capable of blocking the sky over a fairly large area.

But there are already completely portable stations, known to specialists as small electronic warfare. There are quite a lot of versions. There are also those that can be installed on armored vehicles. There are systems that fit quite comfortably into cars. Portable devices have even been invented that can be carried in suitcases.

There are, but... The number of these stations has almost no effect on the position of units on the LBS. And there are always opportunities to improve such stations.

This issue needs to be resolved urgently. At the state level. Volunteers will not help here. We are talking about the lives of our soldiers.

Well, thanks again to the readers for raising this topic...
295 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +1
    9 July 2024 05: 41
    The eternal struggle, armor and projectile. Only in modern realities.
    1. +19
      9 July 2024 08: 45
      In fact, in the fight against drones in general and FPV drones in particular, there are only two problems: the incompetence of decision-makers and the lack of a UAV system and counter-UAV system in our army as such.
      To solve these problems, a branch of UAV and counter-UAV troops should be created in the Defense Ministry, which should be led by those who were able to establish the work of UAVs and counter-UAVs in their units, as well as the most capable volunteers.
      Separate UAV companies should also be created and begin to be staffed, and accelerated courses should be created for commanders and specialists of such companies, including civilians, with the assignment of a military rank. We also need a system for quickly sharing the experience of such units.
      And in the Ministry of Defense, there is an urgent need to change the entire leadership responsible for communications and put people like the deceased Murz in the leadership, and in the Ministry of Defense to recreate a working structure for studying and implementing the best practices of the enemy and other armies of the world.
      Only then will systematic work begin to counter enemy UAVs and we will be able to reclaim the sky from enemy UAVs. In any confrontation, a competent system always wins.
      1. -20
        9 July 2024 09: 15
        Can you remind me why Murz died? It seems like during an assault on a populated area, right? That's it!
        1. +27
          9 July 2024 09: 43
          Can you remind me why Murz died? It seems like during an assault on a populated area, right? That's it!

          Why, let me remind you. Murz shot himself after he was offered the choice to refute the real figures of our losses for Avdeevka that he announced, or his entire unit would be sent under brilliant leadership to meat assaults. And on this fact, one of the State Duma deputies wrote a deputy request to the military prosecutor’s office.
          Let me also remind you that Murz established communications in his unit at a level unattainable for combat units fighting in the Northern Military District and for relatively little money, and scaling his decisions at the level of the entire army would be the most optimal way out of the place where communications in our army have been driven by the current generals from communications.
          1. -26
            9 July 2024 09: 49
            Thank you, and now please give official confirmation that such an offer was made to him! And yes, my brother died near Avdeevka in the fourth assault, he did not die in vain! Did you want a war without casualties? Did you want a war in luxury style? Watch from monitors? Don’t distract me about the connection that Murz single-handedly conjured. No one argues that he has merit, and he did something. But excuse me, why not commit suicide with a TMka, under an enemy tank... And because the person committed suicide in depression, he did not try to achieve the truth so that he could be heard. He said, he was bullied, and he quietly put a bullet in his head. If I wanted the truth and were strong, I could do more than leave like that. And in general there is no better way to talk about the dead, there is generally silence about suicides, even our faith does not accept them!
            1. +17
              9 July 2024 12: 01
              Quote: Igor Viktorovich
              And because the person committed suicide in depression, he did not try to achieve the truth

              Are you a psychotherapist or what? Or did they keep a candle there?

              Moores may have done wrong, but he had dignity and honor. It is terribly sad when such people leave our reality like this. The best people.
              1. -2
                11 July 2024 04: 17
                A person who has honor and dignity fights the enemy to the end, and only when there is no way out, under the threat of death from the enemy, all sorts of samurai did hara-kiri for themselves.. In fact, a person dies with honor in battle. A man who quietly put a bullet in his forehead in an apartment is initially unbalanced!
                1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +19
              9 July 2024 13: 00
              Thank you, and now please give official confirmation that such an offer was made to him!

              Do you really think this is possible? Have you seen a clear official answer to the question about the death of the RKR Moscow?
              And yes, my brother died near Avdeevka in the fourth assault, he did not die in vain!

              My condolences! My relative died at 22 in the same area.
              Did you want a war without casualties?

              War is mainly a consequence of the mistakes of politicians, and if politicians bring it to the point of starting it, then it should be waged as quickly as possible and with minimal losses.
              How the SVO was prepared and how it is being conducted and with what losses these are no longer mistakes and miscalculations, this is treason, sabotage and betrayal.
              Don’t distract me about the connection that Murz single-handedly conjured.

              Murz created a competent communication SYSTEM that is still working. If such a communication SYSTEM existed in all parts of the Moscow Region, many would remain alive and there would be much more success.
              But excuse me, why not commit suicide with a TMka, under an enemy tank.

              Murz is a man of honor and left as an honest man who sincerely loved his homeland and it’s not for you to judge him.
              And advise those unsinkable creatures that killed Murza to kill themselves on a tank with a grenade. Only the cruel truth of our life is that these creatures will continue to eat sweetly and sleep well and will even become heroes of this SVO.
              And because the person committed suicide while depressed, he did not try to achieve the truth so that he could be heard. He said, he was bullied, and he quietly put a bullet in his head. If I wanted the truth and were strong, I could do more than leave like that.

              It’s very good that his telegram channel remains with his recordings, including the latest ones, and anyone can be convinced that Murz was looking for the truth, but in our country the truth cannot contradict the interests of certain people, fighting against their interests is dangerous for life and not only for the life of the one who fights for this truth.
              1. -3
                11 July 2024 04: 19
                I was looking for the truth through the tg channel, are you serious? Even Prigozhin, with his supposed truth and march, looks more worthy!
          2. 0
            18 July 2024 16: 36
            It seems that the same genius is preventing you from finally establishing a connection, even when there is a ready and tested option. This genius advised you to set such a condition for the guy?! Inhuman meanness!
            They shouldn't be happy. Let us remind them of the lives of our guys, who were rooting for their own people, for the country, and not for their immense ambitions according to the “I’m the boss, you’re the boss” scheme.
      2. +10
        9 July 2024 10: 40
        Vasily, you again see only part of the problem. The main thing is not at all the "incompetence of people making decisions", but the deliberate substitution of the VICTORY STRATEGY with a strategy of compromise and deals. It is the adherence to this strategy that dictates the army to use the miserable tactics of "many thrusts and action with small forces" supposedly to reduce losses. Hence all the problems of the SVO. Who will solve the problems of covering small attack groups with electronic warfare and air defense? Perhaps volunteers who buy with donations and deliver to the front everything the soldiers need.
        Look how the Airborne Forces units are used in the Air Defense Forces? As regular troops. And what were they created for? Their purpose is to operate in the enemy's operational rear. Any drones are, first of all, operators and communications located in these very rear areas. Now try to answer the question - what will happen to the enemy's defense if a "classic" blow is delivered to it, only with a fist, and not with an outstretched palm? For example, first, based on intelligence data, an Airborne Forces unit, covered by electronic warfare and air defense systems, goes into the enemy's operational rear, bypassing populated areas and "fox holes" in forest belts, with the task of destroying supplies, communications and those very notorious drone operators - kamikazes. And in accordance with the "classic", artillery, tanks and motorized riflemen strike towards the Airborne Forces, also covered by electronic warfare and air defense systems. So where will all these drones be?
        1. -4
          9 July 2024 11: 43
          in accordance with the “classics”, artillery, tanks and motorized rifles strike,

          Add TNW in the direction of the front breakthrough. And tanks moving through contaminated territory. Somehow, a guy with FPV goggles sitting in the bushes with his toy next to charred trees, overturned tanks and a dosimeter counting down how much longer he can sit here without the risk of peeing blood doesn't fit. The "Orlan" operator can be placed further in the rear. And the quadcopter pilot with his batteries can only see the front line trenches.
          1. +1
            9 July 2024 12: 13
            Alexey, if you don’t have the desire to simply grin, then it would be nice to remember in what cases during offensive actions the use of tactical nuclear weapons is envisaged. The range of FPV drones is several tens of kilometers. so that the operator does not have to sit on the front end of the trench.
            In general, the poet E. Asadov said very well about what was happening:
            "In any matter with maximum difficulties
            There is still one approach to the problem:
            Desire is a multitude of possibilities
            And there are many reasons for reluctance."
            1. -6
              9 July 2024 19: 00
              Okay. What's there to joke about? The trenches aren't nose to nose. The range of a quadcopter isn't tens or even tens of kilometers. It's not determined by the equipment, but by the battery. With a combat load, you'll get those same 5-7 km one way. In any case, you won't reach the line where the enemy's artillery and armored vehicles will be concentrated. Not using tactical nuclear weapons for the Russian Federation in a war with NATO? This wasn't even considered in the days of the USSR. And now a non-nuclear war is suicide for Russia. What's happening now is as absurd as if boxers' hands were tied behind their backs and they were forced to push while jumping on one leg.
              1. +5
                9 July 2024 21: 14
                Quote: dauria
                The range of the quadcopter is not tens or even tens of km. It is not determined by the equipment. and a battery. With a combat load you will get those same 5-7 km one way

                They throw the drones with Yaga, lie in the bushes and wait for the whistle from reconnaissance. Communication via repeater. Plus there are winged kamikazes, these can reach tens of kilometers on their own.

                A nuclear war with Ukraine is not even stupid. This is a deliberate provocation. The Americans are looking forward to giving Zelinsky these very tactical nuclear weapons.
                1. -2
                  9 July 2024 23: 04
                  There is no need for nuclear war with Ukraine. But it is not a war with Ukraine, it is something like a showdown of the oligarchy. But if the whole pack comes, there is no escape. Either-or.
                  1. 0
                    18 July 2024 17: 17
                    It will fit without any options.
                2. +1
                  10 July 2024 00: 01
                  Quote: Saxahorse
                  A nuclear war with Ukraine is not even stupid. This is a deliberate provocation

                  The use of nuclear weapons on the Ukrainian front is pointless, what will it give? Nothing other than the truly complete isolation of the Russian Federation from the moment of application; at a minimum, this will most likely provoke a war with NATO. But I very much doubt that in this case the Americans will give tactical nuclear weapons to Ukraine, what will they do with it, shoot at the LBS? They do not have the opportunity to strike the Kremlin, there are no carriers. What will most likely happen is the inclusion of NATO and its allies in full against the Russian Armed Forces and massive air and missile strikes on the entire military infrastructure of the Russian Federation, similar to those in Yugoslavia, only on a larger scale. And since the Kremlin will not be able to suddenly use nuclear weapons, since serious preparations will be known to US intelligence in advance, NATO and allied forces will be in full combat readiness. The only adequate reason for the use of nuclear weapons is to prevent the occupation of the sovereign territory of the Russian Federation by someone who, like the 3rd Reich in its time, has plans to commit genocide against the Russians. Using nuclear weapons over the territories of Ukraine, which for some reason cannot be retained, is absolute madness and a crime against one’s own people, since the consequences will be very serious. Those who dwell on such topics and consider the use of nuclear weapons acceptable are no better than the crazy ISIS members.
                  1. -1
                    10 July 2024 21: 28
                    Quote: karabas-barabas
                    But I very much doubt that in this case the Americans will give tactical nuclear weapons to Ukraine, what will they do with it, shoot at the LBS? They do not have the opportunity to strike the Kremlin, there are no carriers.

                    The British have been toying with this idea from the very beginning. But there are quite enough possibilities. Have you seen the hole on the roof of the Kremlin caused by a Ukrainian drone? A tactical warhead weighs little, 10-20 kg no more. The Nazis will attack the cities. And the Americans rub their hands and egg them on.
                    1. +1
                      10 July 2024 23: 46
                      Quote: Saxahorse
                      The British have been running around with this idea from the very beginning.

                      Which? Strike nuclear weapons at the Russian Federation??
                      1. 0
                        11 July 2024 21: 46
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Which? Strike nuclear weapons at the Russian Federation??

                        Provide tactical nuclear weapons to Zelinsky, such as for self-defense. But no one doubts that Zelik will immediately use it.
        2. +8
          9 July 2024 12: 39
          Vasily, again you see only part of the problem. The main thing is not at all the “incompetence of decision-makers,” but the conscious substitution of the VICTORY STRATEGY with a strategy of conciliation and agreements.

          You correctly noted that this is the main problem not only of the Northern Military District but also of the country as a whole, and this is not only incompetence but also cowardice and even full-fledged work for the enemy and not people but one “people” who placed these same people in positions and covers their.
          But for such statements I was banned for a month, so I try to express my opinion as a staunch opponent of the guarantor in a more streamlined manner.

          As for military operations, according to military science, the first thing our army must do is demolish the bridges across the Dnieper and not give the opportunity to restore them and strike at the crossings being built and places of reloading and concentration of moving goods. Plus the destruction of tunnels, bridges and aqueducts in Western and Central Ukraine. A few months of such actions and their defense on the Left Bank will begin to crumble even without changes in the actions of the Defense Ministry.
          1. +4
            9 July 2024 13: 12
            I completely agree with you, the assessment “knees shaking” is correct.
          2. +1
            9 July 2024 23: 14
            and one “people” who placed these same people in positions and covers them.
            Yes, there is a question of who placed whom. Shoigu was a minister when some people were carrying suitcases. And Deripaska said in an interview that someone was appointed chief purely so that he could be an arbiter for the oligarchy (like Mikhail Fedorovich Romanov was named tsar) and so that the state would help business grow.
          3. 0
            10 July 2024 00: 06
            Quote: ramzay21
            According to military science, the first thing our army must do is demolish the bridges across the Dnieper and not give the opportunity to restore them and strike at the crossings being built and places of reloading and concentration of moving goods. Plus the destruction of tunnels, bridges and aqueducts in Western and Central Ukraine

            If they could do this, they would have done it a long time ago. To do this, we need analogs of Taurus and VKS that are an order of magnitude larger and technically at the NATO level. And since they can’t really help even at the LBS, what other bridges are there hundreds of kilometers from the LBS?? Or do you think the General Staff simply didn’t think of doing this?
            1. +3
              10 July 2024 09: 56
              If they could do this, they would have done it a long time ago. To do this, we need analogs of Taurus and VKS that are an order of magnitude larger and technically at the NATO level.

              Amazing statement! Of course, you don’t know, but the groundwork left by the USSR allowed us to create much better missiles than the Taurus and in a different class, for example the X-101.
              Especially for people like you, there are photographs of the destroyed bridge span at the Dnieper Hydroelectric Power Station, although the goal was not the bridge at all.
              A simultaneous salvo of fifty Calibers and X-101s with a warhead increased due to the reduction in fuel mass will destroy the supports of any bridge. Or you can also bring the Granit anti-ship missile launcher to the Black Sea Fleet and shoot the remaining Granites. Their warheads are enough for any bridge.
              Or do you think the General Staff simply didn’t think of doing this?

              Does the General Staff have an order for this? The one who must give this order draws brown lines.
              1. The comment was deleted.
          4. 0
            18 July 2024 17: 20
            I live and think the same.
        3. 0
          10 July 2024 11: 02
          Quote: bug120560
          Look how airborne units are used in the Northern Military District? Like ordinary troops. What are they created for? Their purpose is to operate in the operational rear of the enemy.

          In what operational rear areas? Who will take them there?
          Classic airborne forces are a relic of the Second World War. Absolutely useless and meaningless after it and only suitable for smoking all sorts of Chombs and Lumumbs in the third world. No, during exercises the winged infantry looks beautiful and impressive... but when it comes down to it, over and over again their wings are torn off and used as highly motivated light infantry. And it didn’t start now. During Afghanistan, things even went as far as changing the staff and rearmament of the 345th Guards Regiment, turning it into a “light” small and medium-sized infantry regiment.
          Quote: bug120560
          For example, first, based on reconnaissance data, an airborne formation covered by electronic warfare and air defense equipment goes into the enemy’s operational rear, bypassing populated areas and “fox holes” in forest belts.

          At the same time, the enemy suddenly becomes blind and deaf. And he also becomes dumb, desperately not understanding what this blind spot is, humming at the UAV control frequencies, moving around the map. "I guess it's the wind"©.
          1. -3
            10 July 2024 11: 47
            Alexey, stop talking utter nonsense. If you don't know, the operational rear is the area that is located 50-150 km behind the enemy's line of defense, and where the long-range artillery positions, headquarters, field hospitals, supply hubs and communications for his troops are located. And what kind of dogma do you have that if there are airborne forces, then it must be by air? It's probably news to you that our paratroopers occupied the airfield in Pristina, having marched in a marching column across half of Europe, although they then left on Yeltsin's command, just as ours left Gostomel, on command from above. And finally understand one simple truth - in Ukraine there is not and cannot be a continuous line of defense, such that along the entire length of the front line, which would be constantly occupied by troops in defense, and therefore it is quite possible to determine an area for the introduction of highly mobile units to conduct a full-fledged military offensive operation. And the attack of our troops in the Kharkov region is an example of this. But as subsequent events showed, the goal of this attack was not to achieve victory, even if it was local, but victory, but a simple show, intended for the junta and the West, like "let's negotiate, otherwise it will be worse."
            1. +2
              10 July 2024 13: 31
              Quote: bug120560
              And what kind of dogma do you have that if it’s airborne, then it must be by air?

              Because otherwise there will be no covert penetration. 100-150 km is several days of marching bypassing populated areas and “fox holes” in forest belts.
              Quote: bug120560
              It’s probably news for you that our paratroopers occupied the airfield in Pristina, marching in a marching column across half of Europe, although they later left on Yeltsin’s command, just like ours left Gostomel, on a command from above.

              It’s not even news to me that our paratroopers arrived in Abkhazia by rail on 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX. But what does peacetime transfer have to do with combat operations?
              Quote: bug120560
              And finally understand one simple truth - in Ukraine there is not and cannot be a continuous line of defense, such that for the entire length of the front line, which would be constantly occupied by troops on the defensive, and therefore to determine an area for the introduction of highly mobile units to conduct a full-fledged military offensive operation is quite real.

              Yeah... a formation is crawling secretly behind enemy lines to a depth of 100-150 km, the size of which will allow it to hold out until the approach of ground forces. At the same time, shining electronic warfare in the radio range - so that they will definitely notice.
              1. -4
                10 July 2024 17: 16
                Alexey, now you are not just talking nonsense, but outright nonsense. Firstly, a march of 100-150 km is a maximum of two days' march even for motorized riflemen, provided that they are moving off-road, the mobility of the Airborne Forces will be somewhat higher, secondly, complete secrecy is an element of concentrating troops at the initial stage, from the moment the action begins, the element of secrecy becomes speed with the surprise factor, when the enemy knows what is happening, but does not have time to react to it. I advise you to turn to history and read serious research, for example, about the raid of General Badanov's tank corps on the German rear in 1942, about the actions of the Red Army in Operation Bagration or in the Vistula-Oder Operation. Just do not repeat the mantra of our propagandists that this is a "different" war. And for your information, the combat experience of the 101st Airborne Division in the operation to destroy German coastal artillery during the Normandy landings is still being studied at West Point. I think that the American military is at least as smart as you are.
              2. 0
                10 July 2024 22: 47
                Yeah... a formation is crawling secretly behind enemy lines to a depth of 100-150 km, the size of which will allow it to hold out until the approach of ground forces. At the same time, shining electronic warfare in the radio range - so that they will definitely notice.

                Yes.... God forbid someone from the stripes comes up with such an idea. But he might come. It is enough for some effective manager to convince that they have developed an analog electronic warfare system.
                But in fact, even with super-effective electronic warfare, such a column would be destroyed by missiles and cluster munitions.
        4. +1
          11 July 2024 04: 22
          This is what I’m talking about, we are being lured into drone wars, but there will be no such war between Russia and NATO. The war will be using all means. These drones may work during the cleansing, but it’s unlikely.. We will definitely crush Ukraine, but we must prepare for a war with NATO yesterday, and obviously not rivet drones!
          1. 0
            18 July 2024 16: 39
            I support. Our war with NATO can only be big and drones are a frivolous toy option.
        5. 0
          18 July 2024 16: 37
          Poddeozhivpyu. This is a conscious substitution. And not for the first time.
      3. +15
        9 July 2024 11: 41
        The most interesting thing is that the enemy has already done all this - he is producing an order of magnitude more drones, and has formed separate companies.
        The Russian command prefers to do the usual thing - they are saving money, they are not interested in combat effectiveness and saving the lives of HP. This is quite a betrayal
        1. 0
          18 July 2024 16: 41
          I don't understand why? Why do they sell out and dump? Who could use this trash? - No one. They are nothing without a country and an army. A mystery.
      4. +3
        9 July 2024 19: 09
        The problems in the fight against drones in general and with FPV drones are only in the greed, stupidity and incompetence of those who sit in the rear and on whom it depends. This cannot be solved using artisanal methods and manual assembly. And industry, research institutes, specialized heads of the Moscow Region are still waiting for a golden shower to cut it off.
        1. -1
          15 July 2024 00: 32
          Are there already prototypes of highly effective anti-drone weapons? Another bomb with EMP charges that no one at the Northern Military District has seen, but there are experts on the Internet promising their earliest appearance?
          What industry? What industry are we talking about? About the one that is engaged in screwdriver assembly of clones of foreign cars? What research institutes are we talking about? About those like the one that burned in the Moscow region?
      5. 0
        10 July 2024 12: 56
        Do commanders today have the opportunity to organize a tank attack using a more or less significant tank unit? What about an attack by large infantry forces? No!

        Why not?
        Why, in this situation, not attack at night? As far as I understand, FPV, even with thermal imagers, is not effective due to the lack of the “Friend or Foe” subsystem.

        Every skirmish, battle, fight, campaign has a “Price” - in losses of people and equipment, weapons and military equipment.

        Obviously, at present, the price of skirmishes, battles, fights, campaigns... is very high - "0 and 0 - no human or/and equipment losses" - I don't know what this price actually is, but it is <0, the price is a negative number (losses, unfortunately).

        You have to learn to fight at night with a price tending to zero “0”! No losses! And practically - with losses proportional to ignorance and inability
        1. +1
          15 July 2024 00: 43
          Why, in this situation, not attack at night?
          There are about 400 space satellites hanging over the territory of the Northern Military District, plus drones and reconnaissance aircraft, plus radio and Internet reconnaissance. The preparations may already be detected. Moreover, we still have a great desire for formations of personnel and accumulations of equipment in one place. Huge problems with surprise.
          Therefore, some of the most critical moments happened during sudden and completely unpredictable actions: when Alyosha’s tank broke into an unpredictable battle, when they entered the rear of the opornik through a pipe, when they flew into the opornik on motorcycles, when they dug under the opornik. Combat must reach a new level of thinking. We need chaos, but controlled.
          1. +1
            18 July 2024 16: 51
            This is the inability/unwillingness to fight in new conditions. The elite fights according to the rules of their youth. They do not want to pose problematic questions to the genius of all times. They fight not personally, but according to maps. Apparently, it is easier to shut the mouths of those who dared to say this loudly and continue to hang medals. Where are they moving the army and the country?
            1. 0
              20 July 2024 23: 44
              There is no need to engage in the favorite thing in Rus' - blaming the top. Themselves with a mustache. On this resource, probably, not the top writes and reads. Only until the fall of 2022 did the local public pour slop on any article about drones. They really went out of their way. When an article pops up about innovations or innovations, someone is sure to write with the style of “What do we need to relearn now.” And they will definitely remember how their grandfathers fought heroically. Is this also what you think is written by the top? Here they repeatedly proved to me, in plain language, the usefulness and necessity of drill training for the coherence of fighters.
              Even if the most advanced top brass come and equip them with the most modern weapons, there will be no sense in it, as long as you can hear howls on the ground that they are reluctant to retrain.
      6. +1
        15 July 2024 00: 17
        Instead of ideas, instructions, instead of decisions, rules: create a commission, organize a working structure, hold meetings to study and implement best practices, conduct staffing, carry out activities.
        You should have thought earlier. About twenty years ago.
    2. +7
      9 July 2024 11: 48
      Exactly. Until September, the Armed Forces did not have approximately this number of drones at the front. Therefore, no one particularly bothered to oppose them. All last summer they were targeting us with cassettes, which were then brought to them in huge quantities. And since the fall it became just a sea of ​​Maviks and comedians. And probably not 50 percent, but two-thirds of the losses came from them. No one had protection then - it was stupidly not particularly needed. Now, somewhere through the Ministry of Defense, somewhere through humanitarian workers, somewhere through workshops, almost everyone has already acquired some kind of trench slave. And the number of losses from UAVs has decreased. But the problem is that each system usually jams some specific frequencies. And UAV companies change them regularly and work on different ones. The PM system, which only recently crushed them perfectly, becomes useless after a week. Again, there are many systems and few people know how to configure and use them. Experience is needed here. Not much time has passed yet. I think in a few months the effectiveness of comedians will drop significantly. But then something new will appear, from which we will have to quickly invent protection.
      1. -1
        18 July 2024 16: 57
        Military correspondents trumpeted in all TG channels about the role of drones! But they were silenced, bought, some sold, killed, some resisted. I remember Shoigu personally lied in the zombie box that mass production had begun, everything was seized.
        The General Staff has no idea what is happening? Is Putin hoping to outwit everyone with a fig in his pocket?
      2. 0
        25 July 2024 12: 49
        Good comment, I'll develop it, there is no single solution, we need a systemic approach (or layered defense) consisting of REB, SIGINT, passive defense and active (I mean pellets, etc.) But as the classic said, the best defense is an attack, so we need to learn to identify and destroy FPV operators, the enemy can easily maintain the number of drones, but it is much more difficult to restore operators, this is definitely an area where we should not spare money
    3. +9
      9 July 2024 13: 05
      I am not afraid to express my opinion and am ready to defend it always and everywhere!
      FPV drone as the main problem of modern warfare.
      This phrase in the title of the article is inaccurate.
      FPV drone as the main problem of SVO.
      SVO is not a modern war and has nothing to do with it. Whether someone likes it or not, in modern warfare they are moving away from contact combat ! Yes, it doesn’t always work out and in some cases it cannot be avoided, but these cases are either unexpected or are specially prepared for them.
      Why the North Military District is not a modern war in terms of military art, or rather tactics, is another question. It’s just that the generals in our country did not prepare for such a war, if they were preparing for at least any war... I’ll say more bluntly that they have no idea about modern war. Proof of this is the complete absence of technical means of reconnaissance in real time for operational and operational-tactical depth in real time. And this is the main component of modern warfare. And technical means of reconnaissance to tactical depth actually appeared only during the Northern Military District...
      1. +1
        9 July 2024 23: 22
        To put it bluntly, they have no idea about modern warfare.
        I think if they had sent them in a time machine to the past, they would not have been able to take Berlin and Paris in the final stages of those wars, they would have surrendered St. Petersburg with Voronezh and Kiev to the Swedes, they would have taken Kazan for 50 years, and the admirals would probably have burned the fleet at the piers .
        1. +1
          10 July 2024 11: 04
          Quote from alexoff
          and the admirals would probably have burned the fleet at the piers.

          Pfff... for this there is no need to send our admirals into the past - the locals will handle it themselves. Especially in the Black Sea Fleet.
        2. 0
          18 July 2024 17: 31
          There was not so much time and patience left then. There were no oligarchs and there could be no agreements.
          1. +1
            18 July 2024 18: 24
            There were rich people and all sorts of merchants then. But they were not timid, someone prevents them from trading - they will start a war and break through in the Baltic. I think they would also be amazed at our oligarchs - wow, so much money, and such worthless clowns
      2. +1
        10 July 2024 00: 45
        Quote: Vitov
        I am not afraid to express my opinion and am ready to defend it always and everywhere!
        FPV drone as the main problem of modern warfare.
        This phrase in the title of the article is inaccurate.
        FPV drone as the main problem of SVO.
        SVO is not a modern war and has nothing to do with it. Whether someone likes it or not, in modern warfare they are moving away from contact combat ! Yes, it doesn’t always work out and in some cases it cannot be avoided, but these cases are either unexpected or are specially prepared for them.
        Why the North Military District is not a modern war in terms of military art, or rather tactics, is another question. It’s just that the generals in our country did not prepare for such a war, if they were preparing for at least any war... I’ll say more bluntly that they have no idea about modern war. Proof of this is the complete absence of technical means of reconnaissance in real time for operational and operational-tactical depth in real time. And this is the main component of modern warfare. And technical means of reconnaissance to tactical depth actually appeared only during the Northern Military District...

        Absolutely right. Therefore, when they say that at the moment the Ukrainian and Russian armies are the strongest, because no one in the history of wars has had such experience, this is only partly true. But this experience against NATO is unlikely to be useful, because this experience is due to that there is no modern aviation, modern means of communication, modern technical reconnaissance, which is why there is a typical consumption of artillery and the transition to kamikaze drones. In addition, NATO has long had means against kamikaze drones, since the late 82s, for example, the German Mantis, it detects and shoots down everything, including 30mm mines and artillery shells, they were installed at military bases in the mountains of Afghanistan, and recently its more modern version is based on APC Boxer Skyranger. At the moment, the control system of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles with combat modules is being adjusted to work against drones, thanks to the programmable buckshot projectile and the performance of the control system, and on the tanks there will be auxiliary fire-fighting guns with low-impulse guns with 112-XNUMXmm projectiles to fulfill this role. I believe that the Russian military-industrial complex knew very well about the development of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, but until now they have not lifted a finger, they have churned out Soviet equipment.
      3. 0
        18 July 2024 17: 03
        I support! Gray-haired grandfathers, spreading from age and illness, thinking slower every day, still think that they will not yield to the young, with mobile and flexible thinking, understanding of the situation and the ability to make decisions quickly? They are all one step away from the milk can with the prospect of becoming the same at any moment. At the same time, there are no young people nearby to whom they can hand over the wheel or they are driven out.
  2. 0
    9 July 2024 05: 42
    I wonder if FPV drones can work in smoke screen conditions. what
    Of course, numerous videos from the battlefield require careful consideration of their application.
    There is one peculiarity in the use of FPV drones...this is a small delay in communication with the drone operator...the fighter attacked by the drone has a small head start of a split second for defensive actions.
    1. KCA
      +1
      9 July 2024 06: 14
      The delay is only in the operator’s response speed, but the fighter also needs to notice the drone, take aim and let it reach the effective firing range, but for buckshot it is small, maximum 50m, effective 30 meters, from 30m it may well shower the drone with debris, because it's made of plastic, most likely there won't be any injuries, but it's unpleasant
      1. +1
        9 July 2024 08: 35
        In general, there are grenades with remote detonation. I think hundreds of fragments can also disable the drone. It might even be more effective than a shotgun. I don’t know if the Russian army has something similar, but there is an American XM 29 grenade, a South Korean Daewoo K11 and a Chinese QTS 11. I don’t know in detail how these grenades work, but there are specialists. It seems that the cost of one shot is ~30 American rubles. And the firing range is not like that of a shotgun, but much longer.
        1. 0
          9 July 2024 09: 37
          Won't you hurt your own people? Once again. The main difficulty is to have time to detect the attack and prepare for it. And you can shoot them down with some kind of net thrower. Yes, even with an automatic shotgun.
          1. +1
            9 July 2024 10: 56
            A net launcher should be on everyone's belt, instead of a gas mask, as a means of last chance.
            1. +2
              9 July 2024 11: 34
              Something like a rocket launcher. Single shot and large caliber.
      2. -1
        9 July 2024 10: 55
        Buckshot on duty is serious. Very much. There are such windows in the scree at 50 meters that it’s not like a drone, a person can pass through. Maximum shot is 3 and Magnum charge.
      3. 0
        9 July 2024 23: 40
        There are “Interception” cartridges where the buckshots are connected with Kevlar threads that open in flight and increase the chance of hitting the copter. They talk about 70 meters distance
      4. +1
        11 July 2024 08: 18
        Well, what if, in the event of a defeat, in addition to the plastic, fragments from the explosion of what this same drone was carrying fly?
    2. 0
      9 July 2024 08: 26
      Good idea, but there is room for improvement. Not a smoke curtain, but an aerosol curtain containing substances capable of sticking to the optics. In the simplest and cheapest case, sugar syrup. A drone with blinded optics is a useless drone (unless it flies to predetermined coordinates). On the same basis, you can sculpt protection for armored vehicles and stationary objects. Not a panacea, but...
      1. +11
        9 July 2024 09: 40
        What's left is a mere trifle. Have time to spray this cloud towards the attacking drone. What's his speed there? 70 kilometers? Try to blind a motorcyclist ramming you with a spray gun. laughing laughing And then imagine that there are 2-3-4 of them and they are coming from different directions.
        Or do you propose to spray this cloud over positions 24/7?
    3. +2
      9 July 2024 12: 39
      Smoke screens sometimes work. It is difficult for the operator to see in the smoke. Unless the comedian has a thermal imager. And the passages were filled with smoke. They even installed it on cars. But when it flies at you, most often it’s too late to turn on the smoke blower.
    4. +1
      9 July 2024 15: 18
      "Can FPV drones work in conditions of smoke screens?" - if it has an IR camera, then it can.
  3. +2
    9 July 2024 05: 51
    I agree that today the king-barbecue is a more or less effective weapon against Drones. Unfortunately, there is no other one yet
    1. +12
      9 July 2024 11: 11
      No.
      Now each tank is allocated as many Drones as needed for destruction.
      The main thing for a drone operator is to get target designation.
      And then 5-10-20 drones will fly to destroy it.
      There is a barbecue, or electronic warfare - it doesn’t matter.
      They will eventually find such a trajectory that even an uncontrollable drone will eventually hit.
      Lots of videos about pack attacks.
      Recently the Abrams was set on fire.
      9 drones were needed.
      7 in milk - electronic warfare worked, but 2 hit the right place.

      There will be no salvation from drones in the next couple of years. Because suppression at close, final distance is becoming less and less reliable.
      And jamming a huge range of frequencies over a large area requires huge investments of special equipment, energy...
      The range is jammed for everyone. Both strangers and our own. None can work.

      And all these powerful jammers are very easily destroyed by ordinary Harm and others. All the way to Amraam and Brimstone.

      So here, at the moment, there is no protection from drones in sight.
      1. +1
        9 July 2024 15: 23
        "So there is no protection from drones here at the moment." - a shotgun is the most effective. And everything else works from time to time.
        1. +1
          10 July 2024 14: 41
          You would like to learn more about new drone tactics.

          Now, more and more, there is a hunt for our snipers - “drone fighters”.
          For those who know how to shoot quickly and accurately at a moving aerial target.
          The tactics are:
          A swarm of Drones led by Baba Yaga is sent out.
          Behind her, a little higher and further, are two gunner drones with thermal imagers.
          And behind them, ready, already in the air, they hold a carousel of a swarm of kamikazes.
          If a sniper discovers Baba Yaga and takes a shot at her, then the gunner drones instantly detect him and begin hunting for him, directing kamikazes. The thermal imager clearly shows both the shot and a specific person, whom they then pursue until they are practically destroyed. We are ready to put in as many drones as necessary to destroy the shooter. This is for psychological effect.
          To hide in a dugout means to expose it, and the entire dugout is attacked, by the entire swarm.
          That's what's happening there now.
          And not the way it seems to you that you went duck hunting.
          At this point the “ducks” begin to hunt the shooter.
          1. 0
            10 July 2024 14: 58
            “A swarm of Drones led by Baba Yaga is sent out.
            Behind it, a little higher and further, there are two drone spotters with thermal imagers." - what nonsense you wrote. Nothing is "sent" anywhere, there are always dozens of drones hanging there. FPV on "free hunt", observers, spotters, miners, repeaters. And you are only now going to send something there.

            "hold a carousel of kamikaze swarms." - so this swarm can only be stopped by a shotgun. Nothing else. It's too bad you don't understand this. And yes, kamikazes have long been able to work on their own, read TG with lbs.

            "And not as you think, that you went duck hunting." - that's right - when a specific FPV is against you. Either you shoot it down or it kills you. Everything is simple and clear. But apparently not for everyone.
            1. 0
              10 July 2024 15: 17
              You still do not understand.
              What was written specifically for you is not understood from the word at all.
              There is a tactic of eliminating shooters with shotguns.
              The hunt for LBS began for them.
              They lured the “hunter” to the “decoy Baba Yaga” and then 5-10-20 drones began to purposefully destroy him, approaching him from all sides... Using target designation from the drone-gunner, equipped with thermal cameras and luxurious optics.
              When, in a certain area, such tactics destroy a dozen “hunters with shotguns” and everyone begins to think that “going against a drone with a shotgun equals 100% death,” then this has a strong psychological effect on all combatants.
              That’s why they don’t spare Drones for hunting hunters. The production rate of 3000 drones per day for the Ukrainian Armed Forces allows you to create any ideas.
              And ours need to do the same.
              Overwhelm the LBS with at least as many drones.
              1. -1
                10 July 2024 17: 04
                "There is a tactic of destroying shooters with shotguns." - another mistake. You forgot or do not know that their FPV drones are already conducting a free hunt for everyone - the drone flies out and searches for the target itself. Double batteries, repeaters.

                Yesterday our guys wrote in TG - they barely managed to hide in the thick greenery, one drone was lucky and it couldn't fly - so it sat down and waited for them to come out, and artillery and mortars started working on them. And so, 2-3 drones hunt anyone, even a single fighter. And it doesn't matter what he has, he might not even have anything at all and they'll attack him. They even hunt the seriously wounded. They attack everyone.

                We watch the video from the drones - everything is clearly visible there, the reason for the death of the fighters is that they have nothing to bring down the drone with in the last meters, it calmly circles around them and waits for the right moment. A machine gun, yes, can occasionally help, but this is an exception to the rule - guns are critically needed, only they can help in such a case.
                So once again - now the only effective means against drones on LBS is guns. Yes, everything else is also needed, drones and electronic warfare, but guns are the main thing.
      2. 0
        9 July 2024 16: 44
        Mini air defense? mobile automated installation with homing and as an option with a pulse laser. For burning out drone optics? Something weighing 50-100 kg on a self-propelled/pushed cart/platform.
        .
        1. 0
          10 July 2024 00: 52
          NATO will use standard BMP/APC weapons. New versions of MBTs receive auxiliary 30mm DBMs, which will also be used against drones; they can be seen on all new presented models of Abrams, Leo2 and Leclerc.
          1. 0
            10 July 2024 08: 01
            Bradley is too expensive a platform. It’s not a pity for 5-10 drones for this. But as one of the elements of the PDO laughing - it will go. At least this can be done quickly
        2. +1
          10 July 2024 14: 43
          You won’t burn out anything from the optics at a distance of even 100 meters... With something that will fit at least in a KamAZ.
          There was no need to read the pre-war nonsense about Peresvet and other faiths that have no analogue.
          1. 0
            10 July 2024 15: 57
            I have no idea what "overexposure" is. I was just playing around with these Chinese pointers. I've had one lying around at home for about 8 years. I haven't tried cutting a bag, but I've lit a match.
      3. +2
        9 July 2024 23: 45
        plus, not today, tomorrow, drones will provide AI with guidance when the operator indicates the target and in the event of electronic warfare in the final section, control will be taken over by the AI. And our “dear partners” will quickly begin to supply all this on a commercial scale to our heads; they have no problems with import substitution of chips. Therefore, electronic warfare will work until this process reaches a large scale, and then only the kinetic effect on the drone will destroy it or knock it off its trajectory. And it needs to be developed yesterday, since AI control at the final stage is a matter of the near future.
      4. 0
        15 July 2024 00: 58
        And jamming a huge range of frequencies over a large area requires huge investments of special equipment, energy...
        There is no need for energy other than electricity. A more powerful generator can be attached to the engine, a battery with a larger capacity and tens of kilowatts can be pumped easily. True, you can fry your own. Then it is better to switch to pulse work. The impulse can be megawatt. But since we need a frequency band, the power will be less. But then we must take into account
        The range is jammed for everyone. Both strangers and our own. No one can work


        So here, at the moment, there is no protection from drones in sight.
        The beekeepers won't let you lie. There is no trick against the swarm. If the hive begins to take wing, you just need to move away. There are hornets that can destroy a hive, but this turns out to be a more powerful and armed drone. For one killed hornet there may be more than a dozen bees.
  4. +3
    9 July 2024 05: 54
    It seems that the root of the problem lies precisely in the control and guidance channels of fpv drones. It is necessary to create a canopy for their suppression on entire sections of the front. Of course, this will entail the need to increase the radiating power of electronic warfare transmitters, and, in turn, an increase in their dimensions. Consequently, the question of air defense cover for them will arise. That is, it is advisable to create complexes that combine electronic warfare and air defense.

    It would be even more expedient to destroy elements of the drone control system, primarily satellites. Sooner or later such a decision will have to be made if we are talking about covering troops in order to reduce losses.
    1. +6
      9 July 2024 11: 00
      But no, "Kashchei's death is in the egg". Special units are needed to search for drone operators. This is a search using radio direction finding, a search for repeaters and reconnaissance of deployment sites using their own drones.
      And electronic warfare systems not only always lag behind, they are also detected and suppressed. You cannot refuse them, but this is not a panacea.
      1. +1
        9 July 2024 23: 27
        And it’s surprising that everyone is trying so hard to shoot down disposable drones. Previously, artillery was an annoyance, but no one suggested shooting down shells, but something about counter-battery combat, defeating howitzers with lancets, and so on
        1. +1
          10 July 2024 15: 02
          Counter-battery warfare was relevant when Arta had limited mobility. They came up with a radar for detecting the trajectory of projectiles, and the position was calculated from them. Acoustic complexes with the same orientation.
          With the development of highly mobile and computerized artillery with the ability to fire in a "barrage" mode, such as Archer, Caesar, which need less than a minute to collapse a position, and others, the ideas of counter-battery warfare became irrelevant.
          Lancets and other drones are now destroying self-propelled guns, only by accident.
          The scout noticed the movement and/or occupation of positions and transmitted target designation. This is the reason for 99% of destroyed self-propelled guns.
          But not a counter-battery fight.

          Destroying operators is really too difficult.
          Starting from the separation of launch and control sites by hundreds of meters, kilometers, spaced arrangement of antennas and repeaters.
          The communications equipment used makes it possible to land the operator of a kamikaze combat drone in Lviv or Minnesota and Wyoming.
          Now there are 6800 Starlink satellites in orbit, the ping can already be 10-20 ms.
          This is quite a sufficient result for online shooters, in which reaction speed is very important.
          It is necessary to destroy the means of production and life.
          Workshops, thermal power plants, hydroelectric power stations, substations, bridges, pumping and sewerage mains, bridges.
          In general, create living conditions that do not allow the production process and delivery.
      2. 0
        15 July 2024 01: 08
        We need special units to search for drone operators
        Again we think in formation and think in past battles wall to wall. We need special installations that will automatically perform
        search by means of radio direction finding, search for repeaters and reconnaissance of deployment sites using our own drones
        . In future battles there will be no people sitting in Morse key and watching the sky. Forget about the word altogether special units. There is a special, compact installation that automatically performs the task around the clock. This is the only way the task should be posed.
    2. -2
      9 July 2024 11: 45
      The root of the problem is the talent of the Russian command, which only knows how to effectively steal. The result of many generations of negative personnel selection
    3. +3
      9 July 2024 12: 43
      A powerful reb that covers some significant space with a dome - it consumes a lot of electricity and gets very hot. Can't work constantly. And it is usually within range of enemy artillery and mortars. As soon as their operators figure out where its coverage area is, they begin to pour cassettes and everything they can into it. After some time it can be damaged. And to put it mildly, it is not cheap.
  5. +20
    9 July 2024 05: 58
    As Kuzma Prutkov said, we need to look at the root. And the root is the drone operator. We must fight first of all with him, and not with what he controls. If you work with priority against drones, then one drone is shot down, the operator immediately launches another. But if you hit an operator, he won’t launch another one.

    How I see myself working against operators.
    1. As soon as the detector showed a drone control signal, we immediately launch two or three of our direction finder drones into this square.
    2. They use triangulation to determine the coordinates of the signal source.
    3. A reconnaissance drone flies at these coordinates, the operator of which determines in visual mode whether there may be a base of drone operators there. It is quite likely that a scheme with an external antenna will be used, and then the direction finding will show the antenna cords, and the operator himself will be a couple of tens of meters away.
    4. After the target is identified or adjusted, it is struck either by artillery or by an attack drone.
    5. Checking for the presence of a signal using these cords. If the signal is saved, then everything is repeated again.

    PS. There is no need to be a hero and go on the attack when enemy drones are raining down on your heads; it is much wiser to first solve the problem with the operators and then organize assaults.
    1. +7
      9 July 2024 07: 20
      And add a sixth point to this: all of the listed tools must work as a single automatic complex. Otherwise, while all approvals and orders are completed, the target may have time to escape the attack
      1. Uno
        0
        9 July 2024 19: 21
        and the seventh point, everything that is listed here will work only in theory and on paper. There are no types of hunters for hunters. And then there’s the whole process of finding an operator who will be on hand, yeah)
    2. 0
      9 July 2024 09: 46
      Quote: Maluck
      There is no need to be a hero and go on the attack when enemy drones are raining down on your heads; it is much wiser to first solve the problem with the operators and then organize assaults.

      The problem with drones is a problem largely born out of a protracted positional war, which is deliberately created by limiting combat operations to a certain framework of “SVO”, with a strange persistence in frontal assaults, forgetting about coverage and breakthroughs. In addition to solving problems with enemy drone operators, it is necessary to solve the problem with the selfish interests of our oligarchs, who, by and large, do not allow the army to fight, and it’s time for our Supreme Commander to abandon the “we haven’t started yet”, it’s time to start already, The third year of the war has begun, and even Donbass could not be liberated.
      Also, on combating drones. In 2011, the State Duma adopted in the first reading a bill on criminal liability for people who blind airplane pilots with laser pointers. It is possible that drones can also be blinded with laser pointers, especially using a fan beam rather than a single beam.
      1. +5
        9 July 2024 11: 55
        No, it was precisely the drones that became the reason why old tactics like “cauldrons” stopped working, aerial reconnaissance from drones reveals a cluster and artillery works further across the area. And with the advent of FPV drones, the equipment simply does not reach the LBS. It’s just that before there were really few drones, as drones became saturated, breakthroughs became impossible in principle.
        Lasers seem to have been tested against aircraft-type UAVs, but the drones are too small and fast, and the laser does not immediately disable the matrix; in these seconds the operator will have time to aim blindly.
        1. -1
          9 July 2024 12: 11
          Quote: Dmitry Rigov
          No, it was precisely the drones that became the reason why old tactics like “cauldrons” stopped working, aerial reconnaissance from drones reveals a cluster and artillery works further across the area.

          Not everything is so simple, Dmitry. Read the comments above, I won’t repeat too much here (bug120560, and dauria (Alexey)). Just as the war against militants in Syria is not the main indicator of what a real, big war could be, so is the framework of the “SVO”.
          The fact that “the laser does not immediately cut out the matrix” should be tried, if it helps, at least every other time, this is already a plus, and every fighter can have a laser pointer (or a bunch of them). You can even try something like a Christmas tree cracker stuffed with finely chopped foil or something else that can throw off the drone’s aim.
          1. +1
            9 July 2024 12: 55
            If your speculations worked, half of the fighters would already be walking around with powerful laser pointers, but this is not the case.
            1. 0
              9 July 2024 14: 29
              Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
              If your speculation worked

              Sergey Aleksandrovich, I am not speculating, and it is not my fault that our men are dying from drones. This problem needs to be solved, yes, perhaps "laser pointers" are complete crap, but personally I have no data that blinding drone optics with a laser is an absolutely hopeless solution, especially in the future, with the development of such counteraction.
            2. +1
              9 July 2024 16: 46
              This means we need an automated system. The person doesn’t have time, but the technology does.
          2. 0
            9 July 2024 13: 08
            Yes, now it’s just a real war, we have mobilized, the whole range of conventional weapons is being used, our army was simply not ready, as an example, they could not suppress the air defense, which freed the hands of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, it was necessary to somehow get the guys out of Kyiv and we had to organize Istanbul . In general, the main cause of the problems is general technical backwardness, and not some mythical jackets that do not allow the army to fight.
            There is a good video about lasers. Briefly, to disable the camera in a modern civilian drone, you need to shine the light closely for 4-5 minutes. Considering the speed of the drone and the shaking of your hands, you can forget about this idea.
            1. 0
              9 July 2024 14: 39
              Quote: Dmitry Rigov
              Briefly, to disable the camera in a modern civilian drone, you need to shine the light closely for 4-5 minutes.

              Dear Dmitry, we were not talking about disabling the camera, but about blinding it. I am not asserting or imposing the topic of lasers, but solutions must be sought, everything that can help our soldiers, even if it is not “laser pointers.”
              About the “real war”, if it were so, the decision-making centers would have been destroyed long ago, and the Ukrainian Armed Forces grouping in Donbass would have been cut off by the destruction of bridges across the Dnieper. There are no “mythical jackets,” but there are people like Roman Abramovich and others who have very large financial interests. Since Russia actually belongs to such moneybags, it is not surprising that the Donbass was not recognized for 8 years, and then, when it came to the end, they started the North Military District so incompetently.
            2. 0
              9 July 2024 14: 43
              Briefly - to disable the camera

              There is no need to deduce it like that, the main thing is to blind it. To burn out the matrix you need a high power laser, not a pointer.
              1. 0
                9 July 2024 16: 47
                Hmm. Some “pointers” light matches and cut the bags. And the size is 15x5 cm.
        2. 0
          9 July 2024 23: 32
          No, it was precisely the drones that became the reason why old tactics like “boilers” stopped working, aerial reconnaissance from drones shows a cluster and artillery is working further across the area
          in this case, there would have been no boilers since the invention of aviation, aerial reconnaissance had previously seen no worse, it’s just that the operator was not sitting somewhere in the basement, but right on the pepelats. Under adequate conditions, the same artillery working on the cluster would be knocked out by superior artillery forces, supported by superior numbers of drones.
        3. 0
          10 July 2024 11: 14
          Quote: Dmitry Rigov
          Lasers seem to have been tested against aircraft-type UAVs, but the drones are too small and fast, and the laser does not immediately disable the matrix; in these seconds the operator will have time to aim blindly.

          Just don't try to eat soup with a fork. For the same Air Force, laser systems for countering MANPADS were developed, detecting the approach of missiles and illuminating the seeker matrix. Plus for the army there were COEP to combat optical-electronic surveillance systems.
          It’s from them that we need to dance.
    3. 0
      9 July 2024 11: 35
      Now they work through relay drones, in which case finding an operator is extremely problematic.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +3
        9 July 2024 11: 39
        In this case, there is a signal delay and quite significant. As for the FPV, it has a flight time of 5-10 minutes depending on the flight mode, which means that it will still need to be brought to the LBS.
      3. 0
        9 July 2024 23: 33
        Is there no need to knock down the repeater? They are usually big. Yes, and they relay the signal from somewhere
    4. +1
      9 July 2024 15: 28
      "launch two or three of our own", "reconnaissance drone, the operator of which determines in visual mode," - on the other side they will do the same thing in response to our launch and our operator. Only many times faster. Especially when it comes to interaction with artillery.
      1. 0
        10 July 2024 06: 24
        As for intelligence. drones, then for now we have an advantage in them. And you can use this.
        1. 0
          10 July 2024 14: 09
          Alas, but there is no advantage anymore, they outweigh in FPV. Our people from Kherson write about this in TG. And not only their drones, but also NATO are engaged in reconnaissance of the enemy. So there is no advantage and there is nothing to use. That is why everything is going so hard.
    5. 0
      9 July 2024 23: 56
      >They use triangulation to determine the coordinates of the signal source.
      If ZhPS suppression works, how will they determine the coordinates?
      In addition, there can be more than one signal sources and at different frequencies, how to process all this online while the drone is flying will obviously not be easy.
      looks a bit complicated to implement
      1. 0
        10 July 2024 06: 25
        Not only GPS... there are other navigation systems. In extreme cases, you can take photos of objects with reference to the terrain.
        As for frequencies and flying objects, “you need to drink water in sips”, we worked on one, started on another.
        1. 0
          10 July 2024 14: 47
          You can certainly write new firmware for existing drones so that this can be done. only this further complicates the process and delays its implementation over time. this must be an integrated approach with serious government support. on the knee by the efforts of enthusiasts, all this can last for years
      2. 0
        10 July 2024 11: 18
        Quote from jdiver
        If ZhPS suppression works, how will they determine the coordinates?

        But what, with the known coordinates of the receivers (they can be linked before the suppression of the SNS begins) and two azimuths from them to the radiation source, the triangle is no longer constructed? wink
        This is an ordinary horizontal-base rangefinder, only in the radio range.
        1. 0
          10 July 2024 14: 43
          Well, the receiver is on the drone. the drone with the receiver is located somewhere in the ZhPS suppression zone (not above the control panel of its operator whose coordinates are known). How can I find out the coordinates of the drone with the receiver in this case?
          1. 0
            10 July 2024 17: 02
            Or you will have to temporarily turn off the jammer to allow the UAV to bind.
            Or tie them to the area visually using the characteristic objects indicated on the map. Inspection of the area with a UAV, determination of a suitable reference point, clearly indicated on the map - road intersection, building, etc., approach to it, camera at nadir, output exactly above the point. Next is indicating the UAV’s hovering point on the screen with a map - manually (for special aesthetes - on a paper map or tablet). And then work with direction finders from UAVs hovering over such points.
            1. 0
              11 July 2024 16: 22
              I thought that it was possible to select the signal and separate it from interference using clever antennas and software. The interference comes from below and the signal from satellites comes from above. So, I think this can be solved. But the complexity of the approach, in my opinion, is high and the amount of work involved is decent.
    6. 0
      15 July 2024 01: 22
      What will you do when a swarm of drones becomes autonomous? A thousand of them have been released, and based on similar reconnaissance drones and satellite detection systems, they independently detect, classify, and prioritize targets. What kind of operator will you look for and where? Remind me where the combat drone operators were when they were shooting people in Iraq from a combat drone? The same video that was posted on WikiLeaks.
      Now there is a crazy version of using civilian drones. When there is an operator and a radio-controlled drone. It just reached a massive scale. Autonomous systems are on the way, where the operator can set the direction of action, and the distributed algorithm will figure it out on its own. Moreover, it can do this much faster than a human operator.

      PS. There is no need to be a hero and go on the attack when enemy drones are falling on your heads.
      Entirely and completely agree.
      1. 0
        16 July 2024 06: 37
        What will you do when a swarm of drones becomes autonomous?

        Autonomy has its own big drawback - flight time. And as a rule, it is still small. That is, if the target is not detected within a conventional 5-10 minutes (including the flight to the search area), then it must self-destruct. Well, he can’t fly back. Therefore, the tramp option has its advantage, because the decision to launch a drone is made by a person based on operational necessity. At the same time, there will not be a large overexpenditure of drones if the attackers are pressed into the ground and camouflaged for a while.
        PS. Any AI can be deceived, it’s just that the plane of confrontation will also include attempts to deceive machine vision.
        1. 0
          21 July 2024 00: 06
          That is, if the target is not detected within a conventional 5-10 minutes (including the flight to the search area), then it must self-destruct.
          Why 5 - 10 minutes? Where do these numbers come from, from what understanding? Remind me how long combat drones worked in the air in Iraq 15 years ago?
          And so there are means of sources of intelligence data, there are computer centers for processing them and making decisions. This has been around for a long time. Consider the work of combat drone operators in Iraq. Only now the operator gives an order, and a swarm of combat drones, and not children's toys from Aliexpress, moves into the desired square. And no one will engage in nonsense with manual control of each drone.
          the target is not detected, then it must self-destruct
          Why?
          Well, he can’t fly back
          What is the problem for a combat drone to return to the operational rear? What obstacles could there be?
          At the same time, there will not be a large overexpenditure of drones if the attackers squeezed into the ground and camouflaged themselves for a while
          Countries of decaying capitalism live in a society of mass consumption and, as a consequence, mass production. A plastic drone with the filling of an average smartphone is much easier and cheaper to produce using mass production methods than artillery shells. This does not require steel mills and metal processing machines. Everything is much cheaper and simpler. In terms of the amount of technology, any drone from Aliexpress is superior to an artillery shell, but at the same time costs several times less.
          1. 0
            22 July 2024 16: 40
            Why 5 - 10 minutes? Where do these numbers come from, from what understanding? Remind me how long combat drones worked in the air in Iraq 15 years ago?

            Do not confuse a large theater reconnaissance drone with a battery-powered FPV drone. Its flight time is 5-10 minutes, depending on the flight mode.
  6. +2
    9 July 2024 06: 01
    Quote: Maluck
    As Kuzma Prutkov said, we need to look at the root. And the root is the drone operator. We must fight first of all with him, and not with what he controls. If you work with priority against drones, then one drone is shot down, the operator immediately launches another. But if you hit an operator, he won’t launch another one.

    How I see myself working against operators.
    1. As soon as the detector showed a drone control signal, we immediately launch two or three of our direction finder drones into this square.
    2. They use triangulation to determine the coordinates of the signal source.
    3. A reconnaissance drone flies at these coordinates, the operator of which determines in visual mode whether there may be a base of drone operators there. It is quite likely that a scheme with an external antenna will be used, and then the direction finding will show the antenna cords, and the operator himself will be a couple of tens of meters away.
    4. After the target is identified or adjusted, it is struck either by artillery or by an attack drone.
    5. Checking for the presence of a signal using these cords. If the signal is saved, then everything is repeated again.

    PS. There is no need to be a hero and go on the attack when enemy drones are raining down on your heads; it is much wiser to first solve the problem with the operators and then organize assaults.

    Attention to the question: what then prevents the enemy from doing the same and what is the profit then?
    In general, if you take off your rose-colored glasses, I’ll tell you straight away that an fpv operator can be trained in 2 weeks. 1 week to fly on simulators, and the second on a real drone. Another 2 weeks of combat missions and voila, 1 month and an operator with combat experience is ready.
    1. +6
      9 July 2024 06: 06
      Fortunately, the enemy should be at least one step behind us. But with us it turns out the other way around. And if the losses among operators are brought to the level of losses among assault infantry, then it is unlikely that this specialization among enemy soldiers will have a romantic flair.
    2. 0
      9 July 2024 08: 14
      Attention to the question: what then prevents the enemy from doing the same and what is the profit then?

      Profit - the winner is the one whose system for destroying enemy operators is more effective
    3. +1
      9 July 2024 08: 30
      The benefit is that, excluding drones, the Russian army has superiority in all other respects.
    4. 0
      9 July 2024 09: 42
      Drones can be churned out in hundreds per day. And they don't need training.
      1. +1
        9 July 2024 14: 00
        The drone (quadcopter) consists of:
        1. Frame
        2. Propellers
        3. Motors
        4. Electronic speed controllers (ESC)
        5. Flight controller
        6. Power distribution board
        7. Receiver
        8. Battery
        Please answer, which of the following is produced in the Russian Federation?
        1. 0
          15 July 2024 01: 24
          Television programs about exhibitions, where they show the next and breakthrough analogue.
    5. 0
      9 July 2024 23: 36
      Attention to the question: what then prevents the enemy from doing the same and what is the profit then?
      and what is it that the enemy cannot repeat? Only daggers
  7. +5
    9 July 2024 06: 06
    Another aspect of using FPV drones is their impact on logistics. It has become impossible to deliver anything to the front lines. You have to carry ammunition and everything else at night with your own hands or on 19th century-style carts. Rear-line troops are even less protected from this nastiness.
  8. +3
    9 July 2024 06: 09
    Mobilization has passed us by now. They were just mobilized for war. And it followed both into science and production. Put the smart guys in the sharashka in a barracks position and feed them only based on the results of their work. Well, don’t forget to give out orders with bonuses based on the results.
    1. +11
      9 July 2024 06: 20
      Quote: antiaircrafter
      Mobilization has passed us by now. They were just mobilized for war. And it followed both into science and production. Put the smart guys in the sharashka in a barracks position and feed them only based on the results of their work. Well, don’t forget to give out orders with bonuses based on the results.

      First, enough “smart people” need to be raised.
      Go to primary school, after which they will be able to make it through secondary school, after which they will understand what they teach at the institute - and not only numerology, psychology and jurisprudence.
      And now, twenty years later, they can be sent to sharaga.
      By providing computers, spectrum analyzers, oscilloscopes (not from Alibaba), an analogue of Matlab, Cadence, factories - to which their work results can be produced.
      1. 0
        9 July 2024 06: 23
        Well, yes, based on your words, we have a whole country of stupid people.
        1. +8
          9 July 2024 10: 09
          Quote: antiaircrafter
          Well, yes, based on your words, we have a whole country of stupid people.

          Based on your writings, it’s exactly enough.
          But engineers and programmers, turners, milling operators, welders and mechanics are a huge shortage.
          1. 0
            9 July 2024 10: 17
            Have you already mastered one of these professions?
            Where did you get the information about the huge shortcomings? Can you give specific figures on how many and what specialists are missing?
            1. +7
              9 July 2024 11: 06
              Quote: antiaircrafter
              Have you already mastered one of these professions?

              20 years of design experience.
              Quote: antiaircrafter
              Can you give specific figures on how many and what specialists are missing?

              There is a constant shortage of C++ programmers, and a shortage of circuit designers/FPGA programmers. There are not enough designers with experience. Engineers capable of simulating microwave signals in printed circuit boards are generally a commodity in the country. And this is not even nanotechnology.
              1. -4
                9 July 2024 11: 14
                So why aren't you preparing a replacement for yourself?
            2. +3
              9 July 2024 11: 30
              So you haven't read the statistics?
              Staff shortage: 4.8 million people.
              92% of enterprises report staff shortages.


              My company lacks about 100 drivers who have at least some understanding of driving a vehicle.
              We can’t find a dozen dispatchers who even understand how the waybill is filled out or are even trained.
              Auto mechanics, auto electricians.

              Yes, it's a watch.
              But the shift includes three meals a day, comfortable accommodation, and paid travel.
              With a monthly salary for drivers from 150 to 250 thousand net and white. Mechanics from 140 to 170 thousand per month.
              Dispatchers at 120-130 rubles per month.
              Clean and white.

              But they are not.
              1. -1
                9 July 2024 11: 49
                Maybe you are still offering unsuitable conditions. Talk to people, study the needs, improve your proposal towards improving the conditions we offer.
              2. 0
                9 July 2024 16: 43
                You all say that, and then you just look for something to make fun of.
          2. +1
            9 July 2024 23: 59
            And unfortunately, teachers who are capable of raising and training these engineers, programmers and milling operators
        2. +4
          9 July 2024 11: 06
          It looks very much like that. Especially if you look at how roads are designed and how traffic itself is organized. The feeling is that there is no education in this area at all.
          1. 0
            10 July 2024 08: 29
            Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
            It feels like there is no education in this area at all.

            There, simply greed and indifference are at the head of the process. How to grab more quickly and more at a construction site, but the result... Fuck it.
        3. -2
          9 July 2024 11: 20
          And when was it different?
          Even in Soviet times, the percentage of those who were ready to receive higher education in the country as a whole did not exceed 7-8%.
          1. -2
            9 July 2024 11: 39
            Education and intelligence are somewhat different concepts. But overall I agree with you. And such percentages are typical not only for Russia.
          2. 0
            9 July 2024 12: 58
            Not an indicator. The authorities considered people with higher education to be socially alien. They didn’t even accept me into the CPSU, to the point where they demanded that I bring two workers with me. And they paid little. And before the collapse of the USSR, they began conscripting students after the first year.
      2. -2
        9 July 2024 06: 31
        the smart guys have gone crazy, you know, you want to sleep sweetly, eat deliciously and live comfortably; this smart guys are no different from commerce officials and various people from the State Security Service and other offices)) There is a channel on YouTube, some pensioner there is called in short a grandfather there a hundred (100) meters from PM is playing tricks on the growth targets and a very difficult old man ends up and he is retiring in the USA
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
      3. +2
        9 July 2024 10: 07
        Quote from tsvetahaki
        And now, twenty years later, they can be sent to sharaga.

        Another planter. History doesn’t teach you anything, or you don’t know it well.
        1. +1
          9 July 2024 15: 21
          They know history well, but they prefer to pretend that everything was perfect there in the past.
      4. +1
        9 July 2024 23: 40
        We have enough smart people, but since they are usually organized under the leadership of sheep and embezzlers, they are demotivated. By the way, this also applies to the army, hundreds of thousands were mobilized under the leadership of the same mediocrities, I have never heard of any active major rising to the rank of brigade commander.
        1. 0
          10 July 2024 08: 33
          Quote from alexoff
          We have enough smart people, but since they are usually organized under the leadership of sheep and embezzlers, they are demotivated.

          That's absolutely right! But this is not just a matter of demotivation. The fact is that without competent management, even the most qualified and motivated staff will fail ANY task. It's like an orchestra without a conductor.
          1. +1
            10 July 2024 12: 17
            The fact is that without competent management, even the most qualified and motivated staff will fail ANY task. It's like an orchestra without a conductor.
            Well, sometimes it happens that the role of conductor is played not by an appointee and the son of an important person, but by an informal leader. But in my experience, the appointee can flush any unconditional victory down the toilet. And the larger the organization, the more opportunities the appointee has to interfere with work
            1. 0
              10 July 2024 12: 28
              Quote from alexoff
              Well, sometimes it happens that the role of conductor is played not by an appointee and the son of an important person, but by an informal leader.

              Yes, this happens. But the problem of an informal leader is his powers. and in any controversial situation everything will simply come to a standstill.
              Quote from alexoff
              But in my experience, the appointee can flush any unconditional victory down the toilet. And the larger the organization, the more opportunities the appointee has to interfere with work

              I observe exactly the same thing in my own experience. hi
              1. +1
                10 July 2024 14: 34
                But the problem of an informal leader is his powers. and in any controversial situation everything will simply come to a standstill.
                Well, in my experience, powers there are determined by the appointee’s fear of screwing everything up and closing the enterprise in a few months.
                By the way, I observed the victory over such an appointee with his being thrown out into the street, but this became possible only after the death of his important father and another important protecting person from old age, and the new directors no longer cared about the nugget, as a result, the informal leader became real. But colossal damage was done before that
                1. 0
                  10 July 2024 14: 42
                  Quote from alexoff
                  But colossal damage was done before that

                  Unfortunately, over the past 33 years, many enterprises have collapsed in this way. And even with living patrons. It was so funny to watch how they all ended up going out into the street. It’s just a pity that together with many smart specialists.
    2. +5
      9 July 2024 10: 05
      Quote: antiaircrafter
      Mobilization has passed us by now. They were just mobilized for war. And it followed both into science and production. Put the smart guys in the sharashka in a barracks position and feed them only based on the results of their work. Well, don’t forget to give out orders with bonuses based on the results.

      Why don’t you also benefit your Motherland in exchange for food? Have you lost your brains? This is how you can knit anti-drone nets. Or are you writing from Israel or Georgia?
      Those. While the generals were plundering their army for 30 years, and Chubaisyatin and others like them were destroying the industrial potential of the country, you propose that engineers who miraculously survived in the Russian Federation for the same 30 years should be PLACED in a special zone so that they can work for food?
      Sorry, but you are clearly not healthy! wassat
      1. -1
        9 July 2024 10: 13
        I'm useful elsewhere.
        No, well, if you think that it is more logical to call up engineers and throw them into the trenches, so be it!
        And don’t blame everything on past generals. Current problems must be solved here and now, based on the current conditions.
        And yes, read to the end. Or didn’t you see about prizes and medals?
        1. 0
          9 July 2024 11: 01
          Quote: antiaircrafter
          I'm useful elsewhere.

          Yah!!! no way in the trenches!? And yes, in the trenches there are 200+ rubles. they pay. And not according to your logic, everyone is sent to the penal battalion.
          Have you just tried to create normal conditions for engineers? Do you have to plant them and force them to work for food?
          Quote: antiaircrafter
          And don’t blame everything on past generals. Current problems must be solved here and now, based on the current conditions.

          So decide! Create industry anew, pay engineers and production workers. We seem to have capitalism, and these same capitalists are somehow not eager to direct their excessively acquired capital to revive industry in the country.
          Quote: antiaircrafter
          Or didn’t you see about prizes and medals?

          Prizes and medals for prisoners? You're delusional again! Learn history anyway. The same Korolev received all his regalia as a free man. fool
          1. 0
            9 July 2024 11: 05
            Yes, Comrade, you are still not a native speaker of Russian. You don’t understand what sarcasm and other expressions are. Anyway. That's your business. But you still need to grow above yourself, develop.
            1. -1
              9 July 2024 11: 12
              Quote: antiaircrafter
              You don’t understand what sarcasm and other expressions are.

              Yes, yes, it’s good to turn on the rear when “joking”...
              1. 0
                9 July 2024 11: 15
                What's the back one? You simply do not understand what is written. And for some reason he comes up with extra ones. For example, where did I write about the prisoners you mention?
                1. 0
                  9 July 2024 11: 24
                  Quote: antiaircrafter
                  For example, where did I write about the prisoners you mention?

                  belay
                  Yassss. Before you press the keys and write terms unfamiliar to you, at least improve your vocabulary or something...
                  Quote: antiaircrafter
                  Put the smart guys in the sharashka in a barracks position and feed them only based on the results of their work.

                  Sharashka was a secret research laboratory that operated from the 1930s to the 1950s in the Soviet Gulag labor camp system, as well as other facilities under the supervision of the Soviet secret service.
                  Scientists and engineers, prisoners from various camps and prisons, worked in the sharashkas.

                  So on what basis should I be put in camps and forced to work for food? fool
                  1. 0
                    9 July 2024 11: 46
                    Firstly, I wrote about mobilization.
                    Sharashka, this is an allegory and an example of the organization of the process. Where is there even a word about an arrest?
                    Secondly, you write that the guys don’t sit in the trenches for free. So they risk their lives there and carry out tasks. If, for example, you are mobilized to the scientific front, what do you risk, except for your wife’s skirt and her pies being torn off? The result of your activity will be a prize and a medal. There is no result - here is the established salary, for example, the salary at the previous place of work or the industry average. If you can’t cope, you’ll be thrown back into the capitalist economy; continue to earn money as best you can.
                    1. -1
                      9 July 2024 11: 55
                      Quote: antiaircrafter
                      Firstly, I wrote about mobilization.

                      Firstly, SELF-mobilization ended a long time ago. And then, this whole phenomenon was a gross miscalculation of the authorities, in every sense and concept. Now it’s purely voluntary, under contract.
                      Quote: antiaircrafter
                      Sharashka, this is an allegory and an example of the organization of the process. Where is there even a word about an arrest?

                      The concept itself is about prisoners, there is no need to go off topic. Moreover, without trial and sentence, no one can put me in a barracks and force me to work for food, especially in PEACETIME. No one declared martial law. And I watch festivals and parades under my windows, at MILITARY-PATRIOTIC facilities every weekend.
                      Quote: antiaircrafter
                      If, for example, you are mobilized on the scientific front, what do you risk, except for tearing your wife’s skirt and her pies off? The result of your activity will be a prize and a medal. There is no result - here is the established salary, for example, the salary at the previous place of work or the industry average. If you can’t cope, you’ll be thrown back into the capitalist economy; continue to earn money as best you can.

                      Let’s still send you to the potato harvest according to this scheme, since you don’t want to go into science!
                      1. 0
                        9 July 2024 13: 51
                        So I wrote that the mobilization was carried out one-sidedly. It was necessary to mobilize on the labor front.
                        That is, you are personally against mobilization on the labor front?
                        Well, I already told you about the Russian language. Next to the teacher.
                    2. +1
                      10 July 2024 00: 10
                      If, for example, you are mobilized on the scientific front
                      I foolishly thought in 2022 that our command had some kind of brilliant or at least reasonable plan for mobilizing the country. After all, in order to mobilize, it is necessary not only to recruit people into some premises, but also to tell them in what direction to act. But it turned out that there is only the most primitive plan to recruit ordinary soldiers as a result of random recruitment (for example, military commissars were breaking into the office of my classmate, a candidate of sciences of the SNS of Moscow State University, since the reservation of candidates in the conditions of mobilization does not work, and there is nothing partial in the laws, he fled the country, since he had never held anything more dangerous than a kitchen knife in his hands, and they offer him to go fight where an army of professionals is regrouping) and to throw three times more money into the military industry without revising prices and other things so that they supply more weapons. Like mobilizing programmers and sending them to make software for drones, logisticians to set up army logistics, MAI graduates to go work in all sorts of flight institutes, telling scientists that now there will be no grants for articles, but here is a list of a thousand important national economic problems, choose what you will try to solve - this turned out to be an impossible intellectual task. If you assemble a Tupolev or Korolev sharashka today, then there will be no one to set tasks for them, and building and expanding existing production is difficult and requires a lot of thought. In Stalin's times there was an understanding - we need to make airplanes, you make bombers with such-and-such a range, and you make fighters with such-and-such a speed, and we look every day for how to improve them, make production faster and less labor-intensive.
                      1. 0
                        10 July 2024 06: 19
                        Agree. In addition to scientific personnel, we also need managerial personnel.
                  2. 0
                    9 July 2024 11: 52
                    And the actual basis is exactly the same as for the guys sent into the trenches. How are you better than them?
                    1. -1
                      9 July 2024 12: 15
                      Quote: antiaircrafter
                      And the actual basis is exactly the same as for the guys sent into the trenches. How are you better than them?

                      Same question. How are you better than them or me? Otherwise, I watch from the sofa everyone is very smart and militant.
                      And I’ve already spoken about the idea of ​​driving guys into the trenches by self-mobilization, I’ve already spoken out. I don’t see these reasons, and I consider this a consequence of the gross mistakes of our country’s leadership.
                      but again I’ll remind you. Recruitment for the trenches is still going on, and for good money. No one is stopping you from showing good will. Of course, I understand that driving others from the sofa into the trenches or into shams is much more interesting, safer and more enjoyable. But who gave you this right?
                      1. 0
                        9 July 2024 13: 53
                        And who am I driving?
                        I'm just expressing my personal opinion, just like you.
                      2. -2
                        9 July 2024 14: 08
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        I'm just expressing my personal opinion, just like you.

                        No, it's not. It's called - the desire to rake in the heat with someone else's hands. You are no different from our rulers and their God forbid propagandists.
                      3. 0
                        9 July 2024 14: 09
                        That is, you are not ready to mobilize and work for the benefit of the Fatherland on the labor front?
                      4. -2
                        9 July 2024 14: 17
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        That is, you are not ready to mobilize and work for the benefit of the Fatherland on the labor front?

                        I already work in the state defense system. Not for food, but for salary. I don’t understand from which borscht you decided to take my salary and throw me in the barracks. I ask you personally, if you are ready to decide for others and send them to do it YOURSELF, then why aren’t you already in the trenches or in the charades? Will you be hired to work for food? Come, I think I will find a vacancy for you. Even a revenge yard or standing on watch will do, for that price. Unless, of course, you leak secret information to the enemy, for the same food or a larger salary.
                      5. +1
                        9 July 2024 14: 24
                        Well, that means you will have a reservation from mobilization to the labor front, and you will continue to work for a salary.
                        Why are you so excited?
                        If you do something useful, maybe they’ll give you an order with a bonus.
                        And if you really work for defense and you don’t have enough people, would you refuse mobilized employees?
                      6. -2
                        9 July 2024 14: 40
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        Well, that means you will have a reservation from mobilization to the labor front, and you will continue to work for a salary.
                        Why are you so excited?

                        What is the point of such mobilization if everyone involved already has a reservation? fool The shortage of personnel can be solved simply by increasing salaries and monitoring the performance of duties. Moreover, there is a function of selection based on the quality of the specialist. And slave labor has been recognized as not the most effective for hundreds of years. And we can clearly see an example of violent mobilization from the enemy. There is nothing good in this and cannot be.
                        I am amazed by such leaders of destinies who are not ready to get off the couch themselves.
                        I’m asking for the hundredth time why you don’t mobilize yourself if you think it’s necessary. Recruitment is still ongoing. But I still can’t get an answer.
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        And if you really work for defense and you don’t have enough people, would you refuse mobilized employees?

                        I suggested to you a little higher, come, I think they will entrust you with the watch. But I won’t hire an unwitting designer into my department. He will “draw” crooked nuts for me. What kind of methods do you have, Shvonders? fool
                      7. 0
                        9 July 2024 14: 55
                        Probably for the same reasons that you are not mobilizing.
                        Why don’t you raise wages, create better conditions than your competitors, since you don’t even have enough people to sweep the yard?
                        Nobody proposes to mobilize those involved, but it is quite possible to mobilize those who are not involved.
                        I see you are writing exorbitant texts here, instead of working on fulfilling the state defense order. It is slackers like you who need to be mobilized. In order to increase efficiency.
                      8. -2
                        9 July 2024 15: 22
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        Probably for the same reasons that you are not mobilizing.

                        No, not the same. I consider the mobilization of the population under these conditions to be hypocrisy and a miscalculation. You have a completely different opinion. So what's the reason? You can't even give a direct answer to a direct question. But they all gathered to drive everyone somewhere.
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        Why don’t you raise wages, create better conditions than your competitors, since you don’t even have enough people to sweep the yard?

                        We have enough revenge in the yard. But for food, as you offer here, you are welcome! There are difficulties with programmers. But being forced into bondage will only worsen the situation. Mobilization showed how IT workers rushed to neighboring countries.

                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        I see you are writing exorbitant texts here, instead of working on fulfilling the state defense order. It is slackers like you who need to be mobilized. In order to increase efficiency.

                        I see you are digging a trench with one hand and pressing the clave with the other.
                        Don't worry, I have someone to evaluate my work. But you still look after yourself more than you teach others.
                      9. 0
                        9 July 2024 15: 53
                        What you think is your private opinion and I do not forbid you to express it here.
                        The direct answer is that I work in the state defense order system. Arranges?
                        Now, if the so-called IT specialists were mobilized to their computers, maybe they wouldn’t rush abroad. And you also don’t offer them a decent salary. Why don’t you offer it if there are problems with recruiting staff? There is no mobilization now, they will return to a good salary.
                        To a direct question: why don’t you raise the salaries of rare specialists and create decent working conditions? No answer.
                        Well, there is someone to evaluate my activities. So don't worry. And don’t teach who to look after whom.
                      10. -2
                        9 July 2024 16: 10
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        The direct answer is that I work in the state defense order system. Arranges?

                        Well, you don’t work for food yourself? Who is stopping you from working for food in a barracks situation? You're drowning for this. So show by example.
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        Now, if the so-called IT specialists were mobilized to their computers, maybe they wouldn’t rush abroad.

                        They would just write crooked code. They write bugs all the time anyway, and even more so in slavery. You have absolutely no idea what you are proposing and how immoral and hypocritical it is. Why did you decide that you can turn screws for a salary, but intellectual work for food? Because you turn the nuts yourself?
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        Why don’t you offer it if there are problems with recruiting staff? There is no mobilization now, they will return to a good salary.

                        Not to return, because they have already settled down THERE, but there is no trust in our authorities, and this is understandable.
                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        To a direct question: why don’t you raise the salaries of rare specialists and create decent working conditions? No answer.
                        There is an answer you haven't asked before. Because there is a shortage of specialists, and salary competition cannot be endless. Our salary is average for the market. There are no quick fixes here. But things can quickly get even worse. These are your proposals.

                        Quote: antiaircrafter
                        Well, there is someone to evaluate my activities. So don't worry. And don’t teach who to look after whom.

                        Just the same, I did not interfere with your activities and their assessment. You are the one who wants to force someone to work for food. Please demonstrate with your example.
                      11. +1
                        9 July 2024 16: 18
                        Make salaries higher than the market average and people will flock to you. After all, there are some who are above average.
                        I already explained to you about working for food and the Russian language. If you don’t understand this, you need to contact the school.
                        The problem of crooked codes is a problem of control by the immediate supervisor. Why are you needed there if your subordinates don’t work properly? Well, no one has canceled the punishment for sabotage. Carrot and stick, as before, solve all issues.
                        What has your business done to address the talent shortage? Maybe a specialized vocational school has opened to train specialists for themselves?
                      12. 0
                        9 July 2024 20: 11
                        Again, you are meddling in an area in which you do not understand. They are looking for programmers, and they offer an average salary at the entrance; then, based on the results of the probationary period, they are assessed based on knowledge and skills. At the entrance, no one will pay above average.
                        How will my immediate supervisor ask me if I am a slave? Will he add more whip, or will he put less stew in the bowl? Are you generally a normal person?
                        Carrot and stick and so it is. It's called Mr. Ruble. Everything else is harmful heresy.
                        Our company does not train personnel. Our company can only help young specialists acquire the necessary experience and skills, as in general it has always been the case at any enterprise. Well, we also conduct practical training for students.
                        But the quantity and quality of young personnel is the concern of the state, which cannot cope with this task. And no amount of mobilization out of thin air will create additional qualified personnel.
                      13. 0
                        9 July 2024 20: 36
                        Wait. You wrote that your salary is average, without mentioning that this is only at the entrance. What is your pay level for an experienced, proven employee? Above average or what?
                        Well, if you don’t train personnel yourself, then only the market will decide. If you don’t want to pay, suffer from a lack of personnel.
                      14. 0
                        9 July 2024 20: 57
                        laughing
                        Hmmm, you’re a visionary, but you’re a great one.
                        I wrote that the company offers average salaries in the industry.
                        Our company does not suffer from a lack of personnel. And the state defense order is not disrupted. There are difficulties with some positions, which hinders the development and mastery of new things, and this is a problem not only for our company.
                      15. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 15
                        Well, that's nice. Work.
                      16. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 19
                        Oh, thanks! And then I already started drying the crackers...
                        Or I was thinking about becoming a taxi driver/plumber/locksmith. Still better than in the barracks, for food at the drawing board...
                      17. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 20
                        Are you afraid of being torn from your mother?
                        Do not be afraid. Nobody will touch you. But it is not exactly.
                      18. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 26
                        So break away from your mother and move on. I offered you options. Whether in the trenches or on our watch. It's your idea, so go ahead.
                        But I don’t see the point in participating in this cretinism. Just like ANY specialist in general, a professional in his field.
                      19. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 26
                        So don't participate. Sit under your mother's skirt. Be afraid.
                      20. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 28
                        Make funny jokes from under your mother's skirt.
                      21. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 28
                        Laughing is not forbidden. But not during working hours.
                      22. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 30
                        laughing Well, yes, teach more engineers how to work!))
                        Listen, you're not a singing teacher, by any chance?
                      23. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 32
                        And this does not concern you. I’m not asking what field you work in.
                      24. 0
                        9 July 2024 21: 41
                        Those. where and how I should work is your concern, but where you sit under your mother’s skirt is none of my concern? Where such impudence in people comes from has always been a mystery to me! request
                      25. 0
                        9 July 2024 22: 41
                        This is where I asked you, where did you stick to the budget?
                      26. 0
                        9 July 2024 22: 49
                        So you sent me to the barracks to work for food. So I ask, whose will you be?
                      27. 0
                        10 July 2024 06: 15
                        Is this where I sent you to the barracks?
                        Having asked a question, you will be ready to answer it first - where did you stick to the budget?
                      28. 0
                        15 July 2024 02: 08
                        Share what kind of salary range do you have for a middle-level developer, for example, on the now fashionable Rust? If you haven’t gotten to this point, then at least in C++. Stories about the fact that this is not public information are immediately counted as a leak. We have labor legislation according to which the employer has no legal right to hide the level of wages. Even our president publishes statements about his income http://www.kremlin.ru/structure/president/income-reports


                        At the entrance, no one will pay above average.
                        This is a direct violation of labor laws. The salary during the probationary period (at entry) cannot be less than after passing the test. If you have such a fool practiced at your enterprise, your work does not smell like anything good.
                      29. 0
                        15 July 2024 09: 39
                        Quote from barbos
                        Share what salary range you have for a middle-level developer
                        then at least in C++.

                        170-200.
                        Quote from barbos
                        We have labor legislation according to which the employer has no legal right to hide the level of wages.

                        This is all talk in favor of the poor. Employees themselves are not very interested in sharing information about their income.
                        Quote from barbos
                        This is a direct violation of labor laws. The salary during the probationary period (at entry) cannot be less than after passing the test. If you have such a fool practiced at your enterprise, your work does not smell like anything good.

                        This is again some kind of nonsense. No one will ever prohibit an employer from INCREASING an employee’s salary based on the results of his work, and it doesn’t matter whether it is based on the results of the probationary period, or earlier or later. For example, over the course of a year, based on the RESULTS of my work, my salary was raised one and a half times from what I agreed upon when I was hired.
                      30. 0
                        21 July 2024 00: 13
                        No one will ever prohibit an employer from INCREASING an employee’s salary based on the results of his work
                        So why don't you raise? What are the problems, what are the reasons for the difficulties with increasing your salary? An experienced middle with such a stack can easily find a job remotely, without any documents about secrecy and 1,5, or maybe 2 times more in salary. Or he’ll simply shift from the brain-crushing advantages to something simpler, somewhere in a bank or web development. For a much larger fork.

                        Employees themselves are not very interested in sharing information about their income
                        Well, yes, according to the management
                      31. 0
                        21 July 2024 16: 02
                        For St. Petersburg, the voiced fork is quite normal. If the project raises, then raise. There is no turnover, don't worry. But finding a good, adequate programmer for a reasonable price is very difficult.

                        Well, yes, according to the management

                        Well, yes, I am a guide in your opinion. Or I don’t see anything myself and willingly waste my income. )))
    3. +2
      9 July 2024 11: 49
      first we need to plant the General Staff and replace them with patriotic military officers.
      But no way - such people can look up to see where the root of evil is
      1. +3
        9 July 2024 11: 51
        A combat officer is not always a good staff officer. But I agree - there may be a need to shake up the personnel.
        1. -1
          18 August 2024 13: 18
          Such staff officers are better than none
    4. 0
      15 July 2024 01: 39
      followed both into science and production

      Science has long been finished off and bureaucratized by reforms. With rare accidental exceptions, discoveries happen. But this is due to a bureaucratic oversight. Feel free to subtract science from the success equation.
      What production? For what? They will sell us whatever we want. Well, not word for word, but I heard about all kinds of international cooperation on various programs of federal channels. Remind me about the Mistrals? Engines for the Superjet, thermal imaging sights for tanks. Yes, a lot of things.

      Put the smart guys in the sharashka in a barracks position and feed them only based on the results of their work.
      There’s really no one to jail. Now at least bloggers and infotsigans have begun to be imprisoned so that young people do not fool their heads. And it’s like in Shnurov’s song: the factories are standing, there are only musicians... Well noticed.
      Against the backdrop of events there was a great exodus of minds. Alas, in addition to all sorts of liberals, bloggers and tiktokers, many heads left. You could say they left the clinic without a head physician and heads of departments. But ordinary doctors and trainees do not have such experience and knowledge. You won’t go to yesterday’s interns for treatment, will you?

      Well, don’t forget to issue orders with a bonus based on the results
      Rewards will not help you pay off your mortgage to the banks.
  9. 0
    9 July 2024 06: 09
    Quote: Maluck
    Fortunately, the enemy should be at least one step behind us. But with us it turns out the other way around. And if the losses among operators are brought to the level of losses among assault infantry, then it is unlikely that this specialization among enemy soldiers will have a romantic flair.

    As practice shows, personnel of all types of troops die. Where did you see romance, only you can see...
    How can they lag behind us in this direction, if it was they who came up with this direction? Moreover, they have such subclasses of drones that we can only dream about them. Remember the same Baba Yaga.
    1. +4
      9 July 2024 06: 30
      Where did you see romance, only you can see...

      Agree that it is a little more comfortable to sit behind the buttons of the control panel than to knead mud in the trenches under enemy fire.
      How can they lag behind us in this direction, if it was they who came up with this direction?

      It doesn’t matter who came up with it, what’s more important is who got the most out of it. Unfortunately, our army is still playing number two in the drone game and this needs to be corrected.
  10. +1
    9 July 2024 06: 16
    Why don't they use bearings? which are without satellites, determine the signal point and hit it there
    1. +1
      9 July 2024 09: 44
      Because there are dozens of these points. If not hundreds. And operators use repeaters. So the operator himself can generally sit in London. I'm exaggerating of course. But 20-50 km from LBS easily.
      1. +2
        9 July 2024 11: 11
        Don't be confused. In London, an FPV drone operator cannot sit. The number of relay points will slow down the signal and make it difficult to control, even to the point of complete loss.
        1. +1
          9 July 2024 11: 35
          I wrote that I was exaggerating. Not in London of course. But at 20-50 km it’s easy.
        2. 0
          15 July 2024 02: 17
          In London, an FPV drone operator cannot sit.
          A simple civilian cannot. But military combat can. And for a long time. Americans in Iraq operated their combat drones from bunkers on military bases in the States. This was about a decade ago. When there was no mass satellite Internet. They also noticed the high cruelty of using combat drones, because for the operator it looked like a computer toy.
          At the current stage of development of distributed systems, the operator can sit quietly in an inaccessible bunker and only set the direction of work for a small swarm of drones. They themselves can figure it out on the spot, classify and prioritize attacks.
      2. 0
        10 July 2024 09: 38
        operators use repeaters

        it is clearly written - those without satellites, those without repeaters
        1. 0
          10 July 2024 10: 21
          The repeater in this case is not a satellite. And the antenna is somewhere higher and closer. Or a drone/airplane, or even a hot air balloon. There are not many of those who work right from the front, 2-5 km away. Note that drone footage is often accompanied by operator voices. This means that there are many of them. And they are sitting in one room. Do you think that some idiot will plant them in a group a couple of kilometers from the front? I think that the antenna field is also not 10 meters from the control room. It would be good if it was a couple of kilometers. In our division, the transmitting radio center and the communications center were located 1 km from each other.
  11. +1
    9 July 2024 06: 36
    Quote: Maluck
    Where did you see romance, only you can see...

    Agree that it is a little more comfortable to sit behind the buttons of the control panel than to knead mud in the trenches under enemy fire.
    How can they lag behind us in this direction, if it was they who came up with this direction?

    It doesn’t matter who came up with it, what’s more important is who got the most out of it. Unfortunately, our army is still playing number two in the drone game and this needs to be corrected.

    Drone operators are the same infantry. They also sit in the trenches, kneading mud and are under fire. Or do you think that they are sitting far from the front line in comfortable conditions?
  12. +2
    9 July 2024 06: 36
    I came across such mathematical equalities somewhere. 1 real strike on a gathering of ukros on Vozdukhoflotsky Ave., 6 Kyiv + bunker + branch somewhere under the hospital = landing of 1000000 drones. 1 strike on a gathering of ancient ukros on Bankova St., 11 + ChZ-417 = 10000000 drones. A question from 1st grade math, which number is greater, 2 or 11000000? Until this equality shines with blood before the eyes of some Leaders, the guys on the LBS will defend themselves with pieces of reinforcement, and we will be here guessing how to shoot down millions of their drones (and ... these have a clearly defined goal of millions of drones, and our "friends" from the State Council of the PRC are helping them in every possible way). So we will sort out what will help - shotguns for each soldier, miniguns Electronic warfare, fighter drones, cheap MANPADS for every fighter, mini Alabuga for every platoon, superlaser pointers with strobe lights to burn out drone video cameras, etc. The cost of all this is trillions. And the development time is years and years. And the guys are dying - now. Or, after all, several quick strikes (it is clear that two will not be enough, but all the bunkers there have been registered with the 9th Main Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation since the times of the USSR), Petrov and the Boshirovs can work a little. And believe me, those who come after will think first of all about their own safety, jumping like hares, there are no bunkers, there will be no time and nowhere to control. And the Ukrainian monster with all its millions of drones will instantly turn into a stegosaurus, to which the brain from the West transmits executive commands, but there is no sense, because the second brain is near f...interrupted. But-Nizzzyaaaaaa, back in March 2022, they themselves gave guarantees of security to these... great peacekeepers, the Israelis, who show the whole world how to wipe out the entire population of the Gaza Strip (and now also Lebanon). But They can do anything (ubermensch, after all), but we can't. 2=11000000?????? One month and several hundred million rubles. That's all. Again, the damned, somehow unsolvable question is raised, which rests on just One Person. How to...destroy drones.
  13. +9
    9 July 2024 07: 12
    I won’t reveal a big secret if I tell you that more than half of the losses of our army (in some directions) are precisely the result of the actions of these drones.


    I remember after the Karabakh conflict, all reasonable people said that the wars of the future will be fought by drones and that Russia is not ready for such a war.

    And then the Ukrainians unanimously said: “What do we need drones for? Weapons against savages in slippers. We have tanks, planes, ships. We have electronic warfare and missiles. No drones will help them.”

    It's so funny to read comments from four years ago)
    1. +3
      9 July 2024 10: 15
      Quote: Heda
      And then the Ukrainians unanimously said: “What do we need drones for? Weapons against savages in slippers. We have tanks, planes, ships. We have electronic warfare and missiles. No drones will help them.”

      It's so funny to read comments from four years ago)

      Bravo!!! I give a standing ovation! I have always respected people with long memories! hi
      1. +2
        9 July 2024 11: 18
        At that time there were no FPV drones; the aircraft-type ones that were available were quite capable of army air defense systems. And drones like Maviks were completely choked by electronic warfare equipment and their operators were relatively easily detected. So the release of emotions is not even the topic.
        1. +1
          9 July 2024 11: 28
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          When there were no FPV drones yet, the aircraft-type ones that were available were quite capable of army air defense systems. And drones like Maviks were completely choked by electronic warfare equipment and their operators were relatively easily detected. So the release of emotions is not even the topic.

          Yeah, well yes. We are only strong in hindsight. And even then not always. The same Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass used FPV and FPV quite a lot until 2022 against militias. And they reported the problem to the top. But that’s where they sat:
          And then the Ukrainians unanimously said: “What do we need drones for? Weapons against savages in slippers. We have tanks, planes, ships. We have electronic warfare and missiles. No drones will help them.”
        2. 0
          15 July 2024 02: 26
          There were no FPV drones back then
          And what was then prohibited at the legislative level in our country weighing up to 250 grams? Why was it possible to get into a conversation when buying a 249 gram drone on Alika?

          And drones like Mavikov were completely choked by electronic warfare equipment
          And this electronic warfare was on every corner?

          So the release of emotions is not even the topic.
          A surge of emotions was observed when someone wrote an article about any drones before mid-2022. Just massive and indescribable. The article immediately went down the drain, and the author received hundreds of comments about nuts.
    2. +5
      9 July 2024 11: 34
      Well, then a whole sect of the “Almighty Khibiny” and the cowardly “Kuk” were raging. They loudly praised the almighty electronic warfare, which, as usual, “has no analogues in the world” and will cover the entire battlefield with a kind of electronic umbrella, depriving enemy drones of control, depriving the enemy of communications and reconnaissance systems, control and interface with equipment and branches of the military, etc. Indeed, you read this and are amazed at the “profound thought” of these comrades...
    3. 0
      15 July 2024 02: 20
      It was so. For mentioning drones, even in passing, one could get a lot of flattering and not so flattering comments.
  14. +4
    9 July 2024 07: 31
    Suddenness, mass production and ease of use - IMHO, explain the effectiveness of using this not the most expensive and powerful weapon.

    The surprise effect has already been overcome, mass character and simplicity will not go anywhere, but the fight against drones is also not expensive and simple.

    Barbecues, nets, camouflage - passive defense, jammers, and the destruction of operators - active. The operators are not very far away and it is quite easy to detect the signal of the control transmitter from a technical point of view.

    I think the real problems will start when drones become autonomous. These problems will begin for those who are late.
    1. +1
      9 July 2024 08: 11
      You haven't mentioned decoys yet. And here you can look for solutions.
      For example, make a well-protected cart with a barbecue around it, but not just in the form of protection sheets, but with a good imitation of some well-known armored vehicle object. The cart will roll back and forth, “attract” enemy drones to itself, emit smoke/fire from “fires,” etc. And when the enemy, believing that the object has been destroyed, loses interest, she will shake off the dust and roll around again.
      You can go even further: place some kind of air defense complex in the bushes nearby, which will shoot everyone who wants to hit the cart with shot. A sort of live bait fishing.
    2. 0
      9 July 2024 09: 45
      Just the operator can sit tens of kilometers from the front line. Relay network
      1. +3
        9 July 2024 11: 09
        This is a very vulnerable scheme, since several operators usually work on one repeater. And if it is disabled, then you will still have to get closer to the LBS. And installing repeaters is quite a task, since it must be high, close to the LBS and provided with power. In addition, it, like the operator, will be a target for elimination.
        1. +1
          9 July 2024 11: 55
          Vulnerable or not. But this is how the Ukrainian Armed Forces work today. And their repeaters are heavy drones. This allows them to work for FPV 10-20 km from the LBS. Or even further.
          And there are just a lot of tall buildings on the LBS. Any mast, high-rise building, pipe, water tower, power transmission line mast and there you have the placement point. The power supply there is also not gigawatts. A portable generator, which can even be brought on a motorcycle with a sidecar and voila. Antenna, control unit and a coil of cable. All this will fit in 1 jeep, together with the personnel. This is not like in WWII. When, except for churches and pine trees in the fields, there was nothing tall. Moreover, both the generator and the control unit can be 150-200 meters from the antenna. If not further.
      2. +2
        9 July 2024 11: 20
        Once again, don't be misled. Repeaters create a signal propagation delay, which is critical for this type of drone.
        1. +2
          9 July 2024 12: 04
          Dear Sir. Of course, I'll get my slippers thrown at me, but have you ever played "WAR THUNDER"? Is there a lot of lag there? And there are AT LEAST 10 repeaters and signal regenerators there.
          Consider this.
          1.Home router
          2. SFP module either in the home switch in the SHTK, if you are in an apartment, or in your home. If you have a GPON network.
          4.Next OLT payment at the local telephone exchange.
          5. Then the compaction equipment on the main automatic telephone exchange of the district-city.
          And all this in reverse order to the game server
          We don’t yet consider signal regenerators on long-distance lines.
          This is a rough outline of the communication scheme. But I think the point is clear.
          And 1-2 repeaters is a trifle. The main thing is that their power is normal.
          1. +2
            9 July 2024 12: 07
            You think wrong. You have a program on your computer and the picture is created by the computer itself. And the drone generates and transmits the image in full.
            1. 0
              9 July 2024 16: 40
              And what's the difference? How does this reduce the data flow in the channel? And by the way, there is such an architecture.. There the server counts EVERYTHING. The user only has a picture. This has no effect at all.
            2. 0
              15 July 2024 03: 22
              And the drone generates and transmits the image in full.
              It does not generate, but receives in real time from the camera matrix. The difference between image generation and hardware acquisition (the matrix is ​​a specialized device) is colossal. It compresses the image in hardware using codecs, encodes it (also in hardware) and broadcasts the signal. The drone does not generate anything and does not transmit anything completely. They were not developed by AvtoVAZ engineers.
        2. 0
          15 July 2024 03: 15
          Repeaters create a signal propagation delay, which is critical for this type of drone.
          How many milliseconds?
  15. +5
    9 July 2024 07: 36
    A soldier with a shotgun will a priori sooner or later lose to an FPV drone. An average drone costs 50 thousand rubles, and the charge costs several thousand more; and compensation for the death of a serviceman is 13 million, with a commission for injury 3 million.

    FPV drones must be fought by specialized robotic platforms with small arms and, in the future, cannon weapons or a laser system.
    The main problem is not with FPV drones, but with the fact that a person has no place on a drone.
    1. 0
      18 July 2024 23: 50
      Probably, this way is possible: seeding the front line with sensors, installing some manually, delivering some by drones, and some on air carriers, balloons, glider drones. And this network is a field of sensors. Signals from the field are received by the station, diagrams are drawn, and possible locations for operators are determined.
      Drones fly there for additional reconnaissance and aim high-precision weapons.
  16. +1
    9 July 2024 07: 51
    This issue needs to be resolved urgently. At the state level. Volunteers will not help here. We are talking about the lives of our soldiers.

    I would like to know where this “state level” is, and whether anyone has seen it. And most importantly, is this “state level” generally interested in FPV drones, and especially in the lives of our soldiers?
    1. 0
      9 July 2024 08: 19
      Don't write such nonsense! Don't be like the kitchen experts and their circles....
      1. +5
        9 July 2024 09: 08
        This my friend is not nonsense. It's true.
        In reality, there is nothing in the units at the front to combat drones. And the fact that this is so is the merit not of defense mines, but of good people all over the world who buy us electronic warfare systems, mask networks and other necessary things. Or we ourselves “give birth” to the necessary things.
        And what the delivery of “food, BC” to the front turns into is a separate story...
        EW too, 50/50. It might work, maybe it won’t, depending on your luck.
        1. +1
          9 July 2024 18: 05
          Alexey, good evening.
          Before answering you, I looked at the scores of my short comment. To my satisfaction, I was convinced that the score was 50:50.
          What does this mean? It means that one half, the kitchen-sinking and "warlike" half, down to the plastic "pestle", curses the "stupid" and extremely bad, OUR!!! pro-American state, and the other half understands that the problems are obvious, that they are seen, understood and all measures are being taken to solve them!
          It doesn't take much intelligence to just squeal and trash the country and its leadership, but it's really cool to then say, "See how I did it to them!!!"
          That is why at the funerals of our heroic guys some cry and go to take revenge, while other “statists” say, “But I told you that everything around is sh..t, I am the only one who is d’Artagnan!”
          It's all sad, but time will definitely put everything in its place and reward everyone according to their deeds!
  17. +1
    9 July 2024 08: 20
    on tg "reporter filatov" andrey has been raising the issue of drones on the line of fire for a long time. and how they are fought in his unit. his developments in that matter are akin to a mangal tank. especially since the losses in his unit are minimal. they didn't invite him to a meeting with the new defense ministry... he's not in the clip and very independent from the stripes. they avoid people like that... and in vain. apparently, that unit has developed effective methods of fighting ukrobespoletovye. general's ambitions need to be stuffed into their pants and the experience of a combat unit needs to be carefully studied. now any really working proposals on this issue are valuable. the ukros have an order of magnitude more kamikazes on their LBS. eagles and geraniums in the enemy rear are a meaningless topic for a soldier in a trench. he needs to cover his head here and now.
    The tank grill is also a temporary solution...a transitional period. but it gives time to smart minds to find a solution to the problem.
  18. 0
    9 July 2024 09: 00
    Quote: ramzay21
    And in the Ministry of Defense, there is an urgent need to change the entire leadership responsible for communications and put people like the deceased Murz in the leadership, and in the Ministry of Defense to recreate a working structure for studying and implementing the best practices of the enemy and other armies of the world.
    Only then will systematic work begin to counter enemy UAVs and we will be able to reclaim the sky from enemy UAVs. In any confrontation, a competent system always wins.

    Hush, hush, you will destroy the entire vertical. It is clear that no one will do this.
    To make the right decisions in areas related to technical progress, management must have the appropriate intelligence and technical outlook - this is precisely what is missing. Those at the top have long gone crazy and lost touch with reality.
    1. +1
      9 July 2024 11: 23
      No need, Murz did not threaten any “vertical”. There you need to deal with specific people.
  19. 0
    9 July 2024 09: 02
    Quote: Heda
    I won’t reveal a big secret if I tell you that more than half of the losses of our army (in some directions) are precisely the result of the actions of these drones.


    I remember after the Karabakh conflict, all reasonable people said that the wars of the future will be fought by drones and that Russia is not ready for such a war.

    And then the Ukrainians unanimously said: “What do we need drones for? Weapons against savages in slippers. We have tanks, planes, ships. We have electronic warfare and missiles. No drones will help them.”

    It's so funny to read comments from four years ago)

    These were all sent by Cossacks - for example, KA-52 was hanging out here - pushing just such an agenda.
    1. -4
      9 July 2024 09: 11
      He was right when he said that in a serious conflict, your drones will play little role. But naturally we need to move in all directions.
  20. +1
    9 July 2024 09: 06
    This issue needs to be resolved urgently. At the state level.

    I agree here. Everyone knows about this. But does the Ministry of Defense already know about this?
    At the moment, the only weapons are designs created by the efforts and skills of ordinary soldiers.
    1. +4
      9 July 2024 11: 17
      I agree here. Everyone knows about this. But does the Ministry of Defense already know about this?
      Well, how would they know? Shoiga quickly jumped down, now Tsalikov (his right hand) is jumping into senators to ensure immunity for himself.... and you’re talking about drones on the front line, they have more important questions. As for the new Ministry of Defense, it needs one or two years just to clean up what its predecessors did.
  21. -4
    9 July 2024 09: 10
    There is no need to focus on all sorts of Baba Yagas and FPV. The West is luring us into a trap. While we bury our heads in FPV drones, he will rivet high-precision cruise missiles and hypersound. Ukraine is a regional and local conflict. Between powers like the USA and Russia, FPV drones will play the final role in the cleanup, that's it!
    1. 0
      9 July 2024 18: 11
      The warriors of the moment cannot prove this!
      They don't understand that war is not only about drones and that if the situation changes, all drones and their operators will turn to dust...
  22. 0
    9 July 2024 09: 11
    The fight against FPV drones is to ensure control of the airspace in the operational depth, to quickly reveal the location of control points and strike them with high-precision weapons.
    The FPV control equipment, as well as the power system that powers it, is a source of unmasking signals in the radio-infrared and acoustic ranges.
    It is clear that the enemy will immediately respond to the threat with a decoy device.
    And here you will need a simple massing of forces and resources.
    But the main weapon is the refusal to supply any types of energy resources, raw materials and semi-finished products to Europe and Ukraine.
    The euro would immediately collapse and a massive economic crisis would follow.
    The question remains - why don’t they do this? Everyone can probably answer for themselves.
  23. -1
    9 July 2024 09: 17
    Quote: antiaircrafter
    Well, yes, based on your words, we have a whole country of stupid people.

    This is exactly the case, especially on this resource. You yourself should be put in prison, not in the barracks, but in a specialized clinic for your advice.
  24. 0
    9 July 2024 09: 28
    Quote: Maluck
    As Kuzma Prutkov said, we need to look at the root. And the root is the drone operator. We must fight first of all with him, and not with what he controls. If you work with priority against drones, then one drone is shot down, the operator immediately launches another. But if you hit an operator, he won’t launch another one.

    How I see myself working against operators.
    1. As soon as the detector showed a drone control signal, we immediately launch two or three of our direction finder drones into this square.
    2. They use triangulation to determine the coordinates of the signal source.
    3. A reconnaissance drone flies at these coordinates, the operator of which determines in visual mode whether there may be a base of drone operators there. It is quite likely that a scheme with an external antenna will be used, and then the direction finding will show the antenna cords, and the operator himself will be a couple of tens of meters away.
    4. After the target is identified or adjusted, it is struck either by artillery or by an attack drone.
    5. Checking for the presence of a signal using these cords. If the signal is saved, then everything is repeated again.

    PS. There is no need to be a hero and go on the attack when enemy drones are raining down on your heads; it is much wiser to first solve the problem with the operators and then organize assaults.

    I think that the best way would be to saturate the front-line zone with autonomous aircraft-type strike and reconnaissance drones that can stay in the air for 6-8 hours.
    Saturating the front line with them will allow to quickly identify and destroy any targets visible in various ranges. The main means of destruction is a 25 kg UAB controlled by wires from a carrier.
  25. 0
    9 July 2024 09: 36
    The simplest solution that is already in use is hunting smoothbore rifles, and then with ore they make their way through the jungle of orders that are guided by RAVists and militants. There is currently no staff position for a UAV observer and a hunter armed with a smoothbore, and most importantly, a centralized supply of ammunition for it. And this decision at the level of the Ministry of Defense seems to be possible to make and implement in the shortest possible time. The next stage, according to the already established scheme, should be the inclusion of an electronic warfare specialist in the staff of the motorized rifle squad. And in the area of ​​engineering support, the development and supply of massive anti-drone nets and nets to the troops. This can be done now, while electronic countermeasures are being studied and developed from the point of view of applied science.
  26. +1
    9 July 2024 09: 54
    IMHO, best wishes.
    The problem cannot be solved. HPP however.
    because drones are essentially an analogue of mini-missiles, cheap due to cheap mini-components.
    Electronic warfare? short range and micro-electronics will quickly learn to fight them. Do not use communications at the last stage, AI, etc.

    You can see how they are fighting missiles now: interceptor missiles, air defense systems
    That is, create cheap interceptors from cheap components
    Shot, plastic tube body, disposable motor and cheap electronics/control optics
    something like this
  27. +1
    9 July 2024 09: 54
    Damn, how difficult it must be to organize the flow production of printed circuit boards for a spectrum analyzer and a jammer a la an amplifier with stupid noise over everything that is transmitted at currently operating frequencies. .. Not really liftable. For this, advanced microelectronics are not needed anymore.
    1. -1
      9 July 2024 11: 21
      Damn, how naive you are. If so smart, then why not yet the Russian Academy of Sciences? The signal is encrypted, you can block out all the interference with a very powerful device, and with a toy in the trench only if you know what you are pressing and pointing at it.
      1. +2
        9 July 2024 12: 45
        Why are trench engineer-fighters able to make all sorts of home-made electronic warfare with a radius of a kilometer and the size of a suitcase. What's their name...light... They're probably from the Academy of Sciences...
  28. -1
    9 July 2024 09: 56
    Connection! Here is the key to these dirty tricks. We deprive them of communication, block all possible frequencies, and the drone will turn into an ordinary projectile.
    What systems can do this?
    EW! We are accustomed to the fact that electronic warfare systems are a bulky structure that can cover the sky over a fairly large area.

    This issue needs to be resolved urgently.

    Crap!!! Cap evidence of the YEAR!!!
    Just wasted time reading this obvious obvious... sad
  29. -3
    9 July 2024 10: 42
    Quote: sergey4791
    You haven't mentioned decoys yet. And here you can look for solutions.
    For example, make a well-protected cart with a barbecue around it, but not just in the form of protection sheets, but with a good imitation of some well-known armored vehicle object. The cart will roll back and forth, “attract” enemy drones to itself, emit smoke/fire from “fires,” etc. And when the enemy, believing that the object has been destroyed, loses interest, she will shake off the dust and roll around again.
    You can go even further: place some kind of air defense complex in the bushes nearby, which will shoot everyone who wants to hit the cart with shot. A sort of live bait fishing.

    Do you think that an experienced operator cannot distinguish a real infantry fighting vehicle from a model one from 30 meters?
  30. -1
    9 July 2024 10: 52
    So far, the most effective method is a multi-shot FPV fighter with shot or reticle. For BT you need KAZ. For hp multi-bullet cartridges.
    1. -1
      9 July 2024 11: 23
      What are multi-bullet cartridges? Then there’s a sound guidance system, like in the Second World War, and a 30 mm shotgun that fires pellets 100 meters up. Sank lower, get out. But all this is cumbersome and half-measured.
      1. -1
        9 July 2024 11: 50
        There is, after all, a project for the ASh-12 assault rifle. With such a large caliber, it is quite possible to shoot shotguns from it. This is one of the options.
  31. 0
    9 July 2024 11: 18
    Quote: sergey4791
    You haven't mentioned decoys yet. And here you can look for solutions.
    For example, make a well-protected cart with a barbecue around it, but not just in the form of protection sheets, but with a good imitation of some well-known armored vehicle object. The cart will roll back and forth, “attract” enemy drones to itself, emit smoke/fire from “fires,” etc. And when the enemy, believing that the object has been destroyed, loses interest, she will shake off the dust and roll around again.
    You can go even further: place some kind of air defense complex in the bushes nearby, which will shoot everyone who wants to hit the cart with shot. A sort of live bait fishing.


    Decoys are practically part of camouflage. However, do not forget that drones are very cheap.
  32. -2
    9 July 2024 11: 19
    An ordinary hunting rifle and eyes, nothing else will help. And ideally, electronic warfare covers the area like an umbrella in all ranges.
  33. 0
    9 July 2024 11: 19
    Quote: Single-n
    Just the operator can sit tens of kilometers from the front line. Relay network


    Which also emit and are destroyed without great technical difficulties.
  34. 0
    9 July 2024 11: 24
    Blocking communication will only help for the next few years, then drones with built-in AI will act autonomously from the operator, at least if communication is lost - they will independently select a target and attack. Only another system with AI for destroying drones will help here.
  35. +1
    9 July 2024 11: 46
    As with the discussion of means of protection against BEC at sea, means of protection must be divided into classes.
    Tools for detecting drone operators and relay operators. That is, radio reconnaissance, reconnaissance with our own drones, up to space reconnaissance.
    Passive means. These are hand-held net launchers for each fighter, “barbecues” on equipment, camouflage and camouflage nets, dugouts and fox holes. There is one interesting point here: someone tirelessly promoted a ban on nets for fishing, to the point of a complete ban on sale in the European part. We need to figure out whether he loves nature intentionally or very wildly? Even Vladlen Tatarsky was indignant at this ban.
    Active agents. Nothing is lost here yet. And cartridges for shotguns are needed with hard shot and the shotguns themselves. And it’s too early to write off a traditional rifle; it needs “smart” sights and fire control systems. FPV drones can be easily hit with the help of smart sights, especially drop guns and reconnaissance drones.
    Another direction, interceptor drones.
  36. +4
    9 July 2024 12: 00
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Yes, it's a watch.
    But the shift includes three meals a day, comfortable accommodation, and paid travel.
    With salaries per month for drivers from 150 to 250 thousand, clean and white. Locksmiths from 140 to 170 rubles per month.
    Dispatchers at 120-130 rubles per month.
    Clean and white.

    But they are not.

    It’s right that people don’t go to people like that - go work yourself - the market has decided.
    The shift is the destruction of the family, alcoholism, stress and lack of normal rest.
    We know the price of 3 meals a day with an estimate of 50 rubles. and comfortable conditions in trailers for six.
  37. -1
    9 July 2024 13: 09
    New types of propulsion systems, and most importantly the principles on which they operate, make it possible to multiply the payload, flight duration and maneuverability. This will lead to an increase in performance characteristics and will allow the creation of drone hunters who are only carriers of explosives and, most importantly, not from the surface of the earth, but in flight space.
  38. 0
    9 July 2024 13: 54
    Everything is already clear how to deal with this. Electronic warfare equipment and a multi-barrel small-caliber (7,62mm) machine gun system. EW = control suppression, but let’s say a 2X7,62mm machine gun can be mounted on anything, that’s enough. But this should be systematic work, electronic warfare + machine guns, and not from case to case.
    1. 0
      15 July 2024 03: 26
      Why do you think no one has done this yet?
  39. 0
    9 July 2024 14: 03
    Why is there a cola cap on an RPG grenade?
    1. +1
      9 July 2024 14: 43
      Quote: ilya63
      Why is there a cola cap on an RPG grenade?

      Most likely this is a self-made plug for the hole from which the contact fuse was unscrewed.
  40. 0
    9 July 2024 14: 35
    Somehow the topic of drone development has not been covered at all.
    And it is beautiful!
    Because our opponents also read the note.
    1. +1
      14 July 2024 12: 51
      The topic of drones in our country is a complete pioneer camp. Somewhere in Siberia, dudes fly and trudge, officials organize endless gatherings, the main topic of which is how to use budget billions, and investors are looking for ways to earn more and more easily.
  41. 0
    9 July 2024 16: 36
    Air defense against large and expensive drones, and as an individual weapon there should be a grape charge for an under-barrel grenade launcher to replace shotguns with appropriate accuracy and range
  42. 0
    9 July 2024 17: 23
    The main problem today is not drones. The system that organized all this and the people managing it. If we consider an AI drone, then let the experts tell you how to deal with an AI drone, its flock, which has no connection with the operator, no GPS, the drone itself makes all decisions.
  43. 0
    9 July 2024 18: 36
    The main problem in the Russian Federation is "The Party is not united with the people", by the party of course they mean the oligarchs who own the country. This is where the problem comes from, the absence of a main body capable of solving such problems. There is no DARPA in the Russian Federation, I am sure because of the sabotage of the generals. If there was an analogue of the American DARPA in the Russian Federation, or I, we would have solved it in 1 month with the supply of everything "against" to the entire Army, the fight against the FPV drones is not a problem at all.
  44. +1
    9 July 2024 19: 02
    What about the idea of ​​introducing the EAD (Unified Automatic Shotgun) into the army?
    At one time, a single machine gun appeared. A useful and extremely useful weapon position in the army. A single machine gun could both provide certain types of troops with the necessary firepower and simplify the introduction and production of these weapons.
    Now we see a global trend, despite the enormous development of weapons during the Cold War in the twentieth century, modern conflicts are increasingly based on the use of infantry directly on the line of contact. And also the fact that conflicts are increasingly tending to battles in cities rather than fields. Note that even in the Middle East, where vast areas of steppes, deserts and valleys cover most of the countries, all troops are still concentrated in the city. Modern war is a technological war. Therefore, it is more convenient to conduct combat operations where it is easier to organize the maintenance and delivery of this very equipment. + massive use of drones.

    So why not introduce a machine gun, but in a shot caliber. Which would have a long barrel (maybe even with passive cooling or the ability to quickly change the barrel), belt power and could be installed not only on the turrets of cars, buggies, armored personnel carriers, boats and helicopters, but also, if necessary, fire from a bipod in the hands of infantry (I understand that this would be a bit heavy).

    The idea is that having a long barrel, automatic firing mode and belt feed, we can use this weapon as a means of suppressing infantry fire at close range in urban areas. Such a “shot blaster” at a distance of 200 and sometimes even 300 m can be more effective than a machine gun. But the most important thing. If the belt of such a weapon, after a certain number of steps, is supplied with connected buckshot (like the nipple on old guns), then such a weapon can more effectively conduct anti-drone fire at a distance of hundreds of meters.

    Yes, such a system does not answer the question of how to detect a drone or how to target it. But the massive introduction of such weapons into troops, when forming and practicing regular air surveillance around a group/column, can greatly reduce the effectiveness of drones. Such an EAD will be useful not only against drones. It will be useful in peacetime, during anti-terrorist operations and in battles in the city, where there are close fire contact distances. And at the same time, a set of such EAD for a regiment will be cheaper and easier to produce than specialized systems for combating drones in the form of an ABM on an armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle chassis for the same regiment.
  45. +1
    9 July 2024 19: 10
    Drones can be improved endlessly. Even I, an unfortunate doctor, can achieve results with a little funding.
    .
    It is impossible to destroy kamikaze drones without destroying the kamikaze country.
  46. +1
    9 July 2024 20: 07
    It brought back memories of the stories of my mentors, who taught me all sorts of military wisdom in my youth. winked
    Try it, experiment with shallow cuts (an ordinary hacksaw for metal) of standard small arms bullets.
    Start with one (so as not to greatly weaken the body of the bullet), directed perpendicular to the course of the right-hand rifling of the barrel, i.e. if the cartridge is positioned with the sleeve facing you, then the notch on the bullet should point left and up.
    The trick is that with rapid rotation, such a sawed-off bullet creates increased turbulence around itself and drags behind it a larger flow of shock air wave.
    This is an old rifle “kunshtyuk”, it was used by officers of the old army to amaze their colleagues with their accuracy in “putting out a candle with one shot from a Nagan” (our Soviet officers did this from their TT, I don’t know about the PM, it has a round-headed bullet, but should it just make a notch in front, or what?) - such a bullet, even flying past a candle, is guaranteed to extinguish the flame with a stream of air, regardless of the firing distance.
    And this “little secret” worked for the “authority of a well-aimed shooter with a revolver (or pistol)” among his colleagues; the same “trick” was done with a rifle bullet!
    If I were in the trenches under drones, I would definitely try to fire such sawed-off “turbulizer” bullets towards one of them, because drones fly due to the rotation of propellers, which are sensitive to a sudden disruption of the flow of air.
    Instead of talking about hunting rifles (for which the new Ministry of Education has already given the go-ahead) and rifle cartridges with “anti-drone meshes”, you can conduct experiments yourself, on your own, in combat conditions, because they are metal-cutting (and what kind of metal is there in the shell - tombac and lead “shirt” - the heat-strengthened core of the bullet will not allow it to be cut too deep) hacksaw blades are available both on automatic bayonet knives and on pocket “multi-tools”.
    Go ahead and tell me later!
    One BUT, fighters! First, try this “kunshtyuk” on 7,62 mm bullets, they don’t have as much tension in the barrel when fired and this has already been tested before you!
    Of course, at long range shooting, such an “improvement” will affect the accuracy of hits on standard targets, but this is for close-range combat against small, nimble drones.
    Success and Creativity (no one has canceled the soldier’s ingenuity)!
    1. 0
      9 July 2024 23: 28
      Turbulizers are great - thanks for the creative thought. What if you use buckshot (shrapnel) with such turbulator cuts?
      By the way, you can load simple shotguns not only with buckshot, but even with all kinds of garbage - pebbles, branch cuttings, rags, etc. The main thing is that an impenetrable cloud forms in front of the vile
    2. 0
      15 July 2024 03: 27
      If I were in the trenches under drones, I would definitely try to fire a burst of such sawed-off “turbulizer” bullets towards one of them
      What's the problem?
  47. +1
    9 July 2024 23: 22
    We need shotguns. The most varied. Up to these (pictures below). And they need to be able to fire a series of shotgun shots - like a burst
  48. The comment was deleted.
  49. 0
    10 July 2024 09: 47
    about MANTIS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41sSZTqEsRQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41iyDHFSSQ
    Target detection sensor unit
    To successfully combat RAM targets, the MANTIS complex is connected to at least 1 radar device, optimized mainly for detecting and tracking stealth targets, targets for which the effective scattering surface (ERS) is characterized by small values. The complex's radar must be capable detect targets whose ESR is significantly lower than 0,01 m² at ranges up to 20 km
    ? Why haven’t the Swabians delivered this to them yet? and what will happen when they install it?
    accordingly, ? to mo rf: when will they attach afar/headlights, TV and IR optics to the shilka (for example)? and what will happen when they install it?
  50. _6
    0
    10 July 2024 17: 46
    In the near future, drones will operate in swarms with the ability to operate autonomously, as here:
    https://youtu.be/cK3Nv2IcIcU?si=PuIfP5EXkr-47NT_
    This can be counteracted by either an anti-aircraft machine gun-shotgun. Or a fighter drone armed with either a shotgun or an anti-drone net. Moreover, the mesh can cling to the back, like a braking parachute on airplanes, and be quite large. Then, even if the interceptor misses the enemy drone, the network will still capture it. Then a break and release of a new network.
    There are a lot of ideas, all that remains is to find an interested party in the leadership of the Russian Defense Ministry.
  51. 0
    10 July 2024 23: 33
    You fight a missile with interceptor missiles that home's in on the missile. Perhaps you may need an interceptor drone that can home in on the drone
  52. -1
    11 July 2024 11: 37
    Do commanders today have the opportunity to organize a tank attack using a more or less significant tank unit?

    In conditions of massive use of FPV drones, a massive tank attack is possible.
    Tanks firing buckshot from a cannon can shoot down drones in swarms. They also have lasers for blinding the optics of drones, automatic cannons for finishing off surviving drones, KAZ, dimming devices, remote sensing, and armor.
    Mine fields are a big threat for tank attacks.
  53. 0
    11 July 2024 11: 49
    But there are already completely portable stations, known to specialists as small electronic warfare. There are quite a lot of versions. There are also those that can be installed on armored vehicles. There are systems that fit quite comfortably into cars. Portable devices have even been invented that can be carried in suitcases.

    Is it so difficult to understand that the REB emits an excellent target for homing? But installing REB on protected armored vehicles, and even more so on cars, is suicide.
  54. 0
    12 July 2024 09: 00
    Give any student money, access to secrets and resources - you will have an effective drone destroyer, if not in a week, then in a month from the available civilian drones.
    Who should be involved, if without a student and seriously, for the future?
    The design bureau responsible for the creation of all these ATGMs. Preferably, old people who remember ancient systems. The algorithms are old, the electronics are new: light and cheap. In the end, get a drone with a shotgun and a guidance system, I forgot the names of the old ATGMs. Well, who are no longer by wire, but also by an operator.
    This means we need a couple more young people from aircraft design bureaus or students - graduates of MAI or KAI.
    An RPG or a shotgun for this drone - gunsmiths are needed.
    Communications specialists and electronics engineers to adapt a military system with constant frequency changes to the drone. It is desirable to switch to terahertz communications to take advantage of directional communications.
    Well, Korolev is the boss, Beria is the overseer.
    .
    Will someone in the Moscow Region be able to implement this program? Only those who are interested in the business, and not in kickbacks.
    What does he need to accomplish? Someone like me, who will draw the appearance of the product and explain how to divide the problem into real, executable tasks.
    In the meantime, our bosses are being led by the nose and shown useless pseudo-robots and remote-controlled tankettes... It would be better if they took the T-16 (agricultural self-propelled chassis) as a basis... It would not be so impressive, but more effective.
    1. 0
      15 July 2024 03: 29
      Give any student money, access to secrets and resources - you will have an effective drone destroyer, if not in a week, then in a month from the available civilian drones
      Have you tried to be treated by top medical graduates?
  55. 0
    12 July 2024 21: 25
    Is it possible to find the position of drone pilots using a signal?
  56. 0
    13 July 2024 00: 03
    Can specialized flamethrowers help?
  57. 0
    14 July 2024 12: 00
    A year ago I said to this: “I need a shotgun.” They began to buy carbines. But it is large and inconvenient; it would be better to give it to a single person and put him on the roof of a vehicle. It would be better to make an automatic weapon that shoots not bullets, but shot. It's a pity that I'm not a small arms specialist. I would have done it myself a long time ago. The cartridges need to be slightly modified, but a shotgun is not difficult to make with modern materials science and high-precision CNC lathes. But who will do it? All engineers with diplomas drive taxis or drive around with pizza in their backpack, the salary is higher there.
  58. 0
    14 July 2024 12: 15
    Rescue of transport - remote-controlled shotgun. We need a new cartridge and the machine gun itself, converted to fire with a bullet. Everything can be done, no one does. The fact that the carbines were distributed - drones fly in swarms, while you are reloading, you will already die.
  59. 0
    14 July 2024 15: 12
    So far, the principle itself is clear, what a trap for these small drones will look like... About the same as an ultraviolet lamp in a mosquito cafe looks like. That is, it will attract these “bugs”, depriving them of the operator’s ability to control their movement... What will it be? Well, I’m not a physicist... Yes, anything, maybe a magnet...
  60. 0
    18 July 2024 23: 42
    The first bell rang during the Karabakh conflict. Some were already shouting that we needed weapons against drones. But hurray, the patriots overwhelmed them with numbers, like, all this is nonsense, the bullet is stupid, the bayonet is great.