Military Review

The most expensive weapons system ("Time", USA)

57

Marine Corps Major Arik Lieberman (Aric Liberman) is unusually modest for a former "fur seal" who became a fighter pilot. He recently landed on the airfield of the main operating base of the aircraft F-35 - one of the 2457 fighters planned for production by the Pentagon. The total cost of all vehicles will be 400 billions of dollars, and it will be the most expensive weapons procurement program in stories of humanity. Standing in the midst of festive hype and commotion on this sunny day on an airfield in Yuma, Arizona, he denied photographers a request to raise their thumb up and pose for the cameras. “No, no, no,” he said, smiling.

Lieberman's restraint is understandable. Although the Marines welcomed his arrival, as this means that their first squadron, F-35, was in service, there is one stumbling block. “The squadron entered the combat squadron,” said the official representative of the Marine Corps, “but the aircraft has not been commissioned yet.”

F-35, designed to become a deadly 21-century sky hunter, itself became the subject of persecution and a model of the Pentagon's extravagance in the new era of budget savings. Instead of the star-striped flag on its fuselage, it is quite possible to draw a target for shooting, because the fire of criticism on it is constantly. Pilot helmets do not act as they should, the plane has not yet dropped a single bomb or fired any missiles, and the software necessary for the fighting remains on the drawing tablets.

That is why, when Lieberman planted his F-35 in front of a crowd of spectators, who were tensely waiting for landing, among them was Arizona Senator John McCain, he did not demonstrate one of his most striking characteristics: the ability to land in a helicopter using a rotary titanium nozzle, which creates lift traction. This is a trick for testers, not for combat pilots like him.

Meanwhile, the cost of airplanes has almost doubled since 2001, and today is 396 billion dollars. Production delays forced the Air Force and Navy to spend an additional at least 5 billion dollars to extend the life of existing machines. The Marine Corps, which is the cheapest kind of military (except for its love for almost vertical take-off and landing aircraft that are on its favorite aircraft carriers), spent 180 million dollars on 74 second-hand British AV-8 aircraft to disassemble them on spare parts for “Harriers” from the Reagan era, so that they can be further exploited until the F-35 is put into operation. Allied countries are already seriously considering alternatives to the F-35 fighter.

However, criticism will intensify further, as there are concerns that the costs of the F-35 will affect other military programs. If by 1 March, lawmakers do not agree on a budget, the Pentagon is threatened with spending cuts in the form of a sequestration of 500 more than billions of dollars. This means an 10 percent reduction in budget projects for the coming decade. Two years ago, the White House predicted that these cuts would be so burdensome for hawks from the Republican Party that no one would take them. But now the Great Old Party has split, and many of its members are more concerned about the deficit than the defense.

“We are probably spending 45% of the global defense budget. If we reduce this figure to 42 or to 43%, are we really in danger of some kind of invasion? Asked Republican member of the House of Representatives from Michigan, Justin Emash (Justin Amash) from a new generation of hawks and fighters with a deficit, for whom talking about spending is even more of a threat than war. “We are bankrupt our country, and this creates a great danger for us.”

Republican leaders in the House of Representatives began to talk about reducing military spending as something inevitable. President Obama warned that if Congress did not submit a new plan, "tough decisions will follow in the coming weeks," for example, the recent announcement that sending an aircraft carrier to the Persian Gulf is being postponed in order to save money.


The sad paradox is that reducing the cost of the F-35 at this stage will not provide significant savings in the short term, because the Pentagon recently signed contracts for this machine for almost 5 billion dollars. However, the mandatory reductions within the framework of the sequester will postpone the purchase of additional aircraft and the necessary tests for this at a later time, with the inevitable result in such a situation: the cost of each aircraft will increase even more. Unfortunately, this is nothing new for the F-35 Lightning II.

How did we get to this?

The single-engine F-35 single-seat aircraft is a vital example of an old saying that a camel is a horse, if the commission so decided. Imagine a flying Swiss army knife that can be used in an air battle, from which you can drop bombs and conduct reconnaissance. When fine tuning the hardware, the F-35A becomes subtle enough to be used in the Air Force. The ability to make a vertical landing allows the F-35B to land on amphibious assault ships. And the design of the F-35C, designed for the Navy, allows it to be used in heavy operations from aircraft carriers.

“We all laid eggs into one F-35 basket,” said Texas Republican senator John Cornyn. It would seem that with such an approach, the military should have taken the development of this machine very conservatively. But in fact, the Pentagon did just the opposite. He decided to build three versions of one aircraft at an average price of 160 million dollars each (problem # 1); agreed that airplanes should be multi-purpose, capable of performing different tasks (problem number 2); and then began to produce them, when the drawings had not yet been finalized - more than ten years before the completion of the most important developmental tests (problem number XXUMX). The military has already spent 3 a million dollars to repair purchased aircraft, and the final cost of repairing defective machines is estimated closer to 373 billions.

In 2002, the main purchaser weapons for the Pentagon, Edward Aldridge said that the F-35 "sets new standards for scientific and technological progress" and "rewrites books on procurement and commercial practice." His successor last year expressed a different opinion. “My words will make headlines if I say this, but I’ll still say it,” said Frank Kendall. - Starting the production of the F-35 several years before the first test flight was a flawed procurement practice. It should not have been done. ”

The Pentagon and its allies say that the need for the F-35 was so great that the aircraft had to be built at the same time as its design. (More than ten years have passed since the start of design, but the drawings of the machine change 10 times a day, seven days a week.) “Technological advantages of the American military aviation are less than five years in time, says Tom Donnelly, a military expert at the American Enterprise Institute. “To preserve the quantitative and qualitative advantages, the United States today needs to adopt a fleet of fifth-generation fighters.”

Others say that no country in the world possesses weapons in such quantity and quality that now or in the future to challenge American domination, and that the rush to develop and create F-35 has internal rather than external causes. "We have always had such a sexual itch and the desire to have a new aircraft in every kind of military," said Tom Christie, who led the Pentagon in all testing weapons from 2001 to 2005 a year. - The pursuit is persistent, stubborn and natural. "

A born-born bastard turned out to be a compromise, and not the best option for each type of armed forces; but he was good enough for all three. Neither the Air Force nor the Navy liked its stump-like design. The small and wide fuselage of the F-35C forced the brake hook to be placed close to the chassis (2 with a small meter, while the F-18, which it will replace, has a distance equal to the 5,5 meter). Because of this, it is rather difficult to capture a brake cable on the deck of an aircraft carrier. Because of the short range of the flight, the aircraft carriers on which these vehicles are based will have to come close to the enemy’s shores so that the F-35C can perform its tasks. Without refueling in the air with the help of bulky refueling aircraft, the F-35C can only fly with external fuel tanks, and this negates its stealth characteristics, which are the main combat advantage of this vehicle.

Due to the inclusion of three types of armed forces in the program, management flexibility has deteriorated, and the taxpayer has been put in a very difficult position. Each species had its own leverage, as everyone could threaten to quit the program. Therefore, the problems of cost receded into the background, and the main issue was the characteristics of the aircraft. “The air force could, in principle, take on the naval version, gaining a significantly longer range and constructive strength,” says John Young Jr, who held senior civilian positions in the Navy and the Pentagon from 2001 to 2009 a year. “However, the Air Force Command refused to consider this option.”


But if the Navy and Young were unhappy with the actions of the Air Force, then the Air Force itself was unhappy with the actions of the marines. “This is a program that creates jobs in the Marine Corps Aviation,” said retired General Merrill McPeak, who served as chief of staff of the Air Force from 1990 to 1994 year. “The idea that we can create a common structure for everyone is wrong from the beginning.” He mockingly speaks about the requirement for the Marines to make a plane with a vertical landing, stating: "The idea of ​​landing on the coast in order to support the troops near some improvised airfield, a la Guadalcanal, was not destined to be fulfilled."

By focusing on waging two wars after September 11, the Pentagon loosened control over the F-35 program. As a result, costs have increased significantly, and the backlog is 10 years. The F-35 Marine Corps was to appear in the troops and begin combat operations in April 2010; Air Force aircraft in June 2011, and the naval version in April 2012. Having broken with the existing tradition, the Pentagon today does not set a deadline for the “initial commissioning” for any of these aircraft, and therefore delays may be several years.

Whatever the merits of this aircraft, lawmakers pushing through this program can hardly be called impartial observers. Those 48 congressional group members who advocated a unified strike fighter, and many of whom sit on the Pentagon’s oversight commissions, received twice as many donations from their F-35 contractors for their election campaign in 2012 than non-members the composition of the candidates. Those voters who voted for these legislators, in turn, occupy jobs in the 45 states of 133000 under the F-35 creation program. (Lockheed Martin, which creates this machine, says that the number of jobs will double when mass production begins.)

The Pentagon and Lockheed Martin have been in a state of war for many years, which further aggravates the situation. Air Force Lieutenant-General Christopher Bogdan, who holds a senior executive position on the F-35 program in the Pentagon, said last summer that the relationship between them was "the most disgusting of all I have seen - and I have seen a lot." However, the parties say that the worst is over. Lockheed Martin President Marilyn Hewson (Marillyn Hewson) last month said that the aircraft’s raid was 5000 flight hours, that its flight test program was accelerated, and that the range of aircraft operating conditions was steadily expanding. “Our growing production line, operational sustainability and advanced pilot training are all indicative of the fact that the F-35 program is moving along a positive trajectory,” she said. Deliveries of the new F-35 machines in 2012 more than doubled, making up 30 units.

Pilots love the F-35. In the cockpit, he has new appliances, keys and digging. “Before you, a large touchscreen display is an interface for the iPad generation,” said test colonel colonel Arthur Tomassetti. - Light movements of the left and right hands you can make this plane do what you want. And if you don’t want to do anything with it, it will be in the mode in which you left it. ” So fly it easy. “I look at the emerald sea against the white sands,” says Tomasetti about his flights along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico, which he makes from Florida from Eglin airbase. “I remember my numerous flights on other planes when I did not have time for such things.”

But military technology for the past few years away from the manned fighter. Unmanned aerial vehicles, weapons used beyond the reach of means of destruction, as well as GPS-guided bombs reduce the practicality and usefulness of manned aircraft that have such a short range. Their shortcomings become even more noticeable in connection with the reversal of the Pentagon toward the Pacific Ocean. There, the small combat range of the F-35 (755 kilometers for marines, 940 kilometers for the Air Force and 990 kilometers for the Navy) creates even more serious problems for him.

The main thing in the management of the aircraft is computers. But instead of taking advantage of simplicity, the F-35 goes in a different direction. The complexity of his device can be judged by the 24 millions of lines of aircraft computer command set, including 9,5 million on board the machine. This is more than six times more than the maritime version of the F-18. F-35, state auditors say, "is as complex as everything on earth."

The computers were supposed to replace most of the prototypes, allowing the production of all three versions of the F-35 on the assembly line in Texas to begin at the same time. That's exactly what Toyota did, starting at the same time to produce Avalon, Camry and Venza brands at its huge Kentucky facility. “Advances in technology, design tools, and the manufacturing process have significantly changed the course of design and construction,” said the main purchaser of weapons for the Pentagon, Paul Kaminski, in 1997.

But Lockheed is not Toyota. Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine, now the bible of the aerospace industry and its traditional proponent, published an editorial last fall claiming that the program had "already failed" in terms of cost and delivery schedule, and that its specifications were still through. not confirmed. The magazine proposed to put the F-35 against the existing F-15 and F-16 fighters in the Air Force and F-18 from the naval forces, compare them and determine the prospects for the procurement of fighter equipment.


J. Michael Gilmore, who replaced Christie as the chief test officer for the Pentagon, reported in January that all three versions of the car would be less speedy and more maneuverable than originally thought. Due to the weight loss of the vehicle, it has become 25% more vulnerable to enemy fire. According to him, in the period from March to October, only one of the three F-35 planes, on which the US military is flying, was ready to fly.

Such problems inevitably cause delays, and this inexorably leads to higher prices. "Lockheed Martin and the F-35 program did not show any response to cost increases," said military aviation specialist Richard Abulafia, who works for the Teal Group, which analyzes the activities of the military-industrial complex. “Because of this, the program becomes very vulnerable.”

And the clouds continue to thicken. The leadership of the Pentagon and Lockheed knows that in order to reduce the cost of the aircraft, they need to sell hundreds of F-35 to a dozen countries. However, Canada announced in December that it would look for alternatives to the planned purchases of X-NUMX F-65 machines. She did it after an independent analysis found that the total cost of these machines for the entire life of their operation will be almost 35 billion dollars, which is approximately twice the previous estimates (the forecast for the cost of American cars is 46 trillion dollars). Australia recently announced that it wants to additionally purchase Boeing’s F-1,5 24 aircraft manufactured in St. Louis. This is almost a one hundred percent guarantee that it will reduce the volume of purchases of F-18, which according to the plan amounts to 35 machines.

Is this a correct airplane?

While the question of how to make the F-35 right is now being actively discussed, there is a more important question: is it the right aircraft for the American military in the 21st century? The F-35 is a so-called fifth generation fighter. This means that it should be invisible from the ground itself to enemy radars, which can be used to search for and destroy it. Everyone in military circles was talking about "stealth" technology when the Pentagon plotted the F-35 program. But that was long before the stage was confidently taken Drones. They made the idea of ​​human flight through barrage of anti-aircraft artillery and rockets seem strange and even eccentric. "The Air Force," says Abulafia, "drank too much pink liquid while toasting the fifth generation."

More sophisticated sensors and computer technologies reduce the value of stealth by day, says Navy Chief of Staff Admiral Jonathan Greenert. Over time, he warns, our potential adversary will have enough information on stealth aircraft to counter them.

The Air Force feared that "additional purchases of fourth-generation fighters would create a direct threat to the programs for building a fifth-generation fighter." Lt. Col. Christopher Niemi, who has flown an F-22 for many years, wrote about this in the November-December issue of the Air & Space Power Journal. The Air Force's refusal to consider purchasing new fourth-generation F-15s and F-16s instead of the F-35 "threatens to reduce the number of Air Force fighter aircraft to dangerously low levels, especially given the current budgetary constraints," he said.

To ensure stealth, you have to sacrifice range, flight time and airborne weapons - and these are the three main components of air combat. All of these factors determined the fate of the F-22 fighter, the only fifth-generation combat aircraft in the United States. He has been standing idle in hangars all over the world for seven years now, and the country at this time waged and leads wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. However, the F-22, built to wage the wars of the future with the enemy, which does not yet exist, has not yet taken off for a single combat mission.

If 1 is sequestrated in March, the production of the F-35 will slow down and its flight tests will be postponed. This is clearly the leaders of this program. Because of this, the plane will eventually become more expensive.

But the Pentagon literally 100 hours before the first term of the sequestration, scheduled for January 2, struck a contract for an 31 aircraft worth 4,8 billion dollars. Due to this, a significant part of the program will be continued and will go on autopilot.

“The F-35 program created a good buffer, getting a contract for the next batch of aircraft in a timely manner,” says military budget expert from the independent Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments (Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments) Todd Harrison. - This means that Lockheed and all its subcontractors will receive a large order and the amount of work that the sequestration will not affect in any way. So while they can continue their work in accordance with the plan. "

Apparently, in the end, F-35 will still be very unobtrusive.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.time.com
57 comments
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  1. JonnyT
    JonnyT 22 February 2013 15: 31
    +17
    Expensive, but effective ??? .... very "good" for the states, especially in times of lack of money ..... they imposed an arms race on us, thereby ruining our economy, and now they are doing Harakire for themselves ..... masochit ) wassat
    1. dmitreach
      dmitreach 22 February 2013 15: 34
      +33
      Where is Navalny? Why is he silent about drank, in the light of democracy and the land of not vicious elves?
      1. FATEMOGAN
        FATEMOGAN 22 February 2013 18: 15
        +12
        Quote: dmitreach
        Where is Navalny? Why is he silent about drank, in the light of democracy and the land of not vicious elves?

        Duc ..., so the same "democratic" drank !!! fellow
    2. Nevsky
      Nevsky 22 February 2013 15: 36
      +4
      I don't understand why there are 2457 of them to do ?? !!! wassat
      Simultaneously fight China, Russia and India in order to become the master of the planet once and for all?
      1. dmitreach
        dmitreach 22 February 2013 15: 41
        +1
        Grandma. A large batch has a lower unit cost.
        1. APASUS
          APASUS 22 February 2013 19: 09
          +4
          Quote: dmitreach
          Grandma. A large batch has a lower unit cost.

          What does the cost price have to do with it?
          They are printed around the clock, and this money is not backed by anything at all! And the whole world is feeding America!
          Let the plane cost a trillion and America will pull a couple of hundred!
        2. ikrut
          ikrut 23 February 2013 12: 42
          +2
          Quote: dmitreach
          Grandma. A large batch has a lower unit cost.

          And once again the grandmother. A large batch has higher total operating, repair and modernization costs :))
      2. Octavian avgust
        Octavian avgust 22 February 2013 17: 48
        +8
        Rospily in the American defense industry and do not go to Serdyukov! Navalny cannot bark at his owners. yes
      3. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 22 February 2013 17: 52
        +7
        And where are those who praised the American aviation industry, they say they have already produced 50 F-35s, while in our country only a few T-50 prototypes fly?
        1. dmitreach
          dmitreach 22 February 2013 17: 57
          +3
          They have a headache due to the rupture of the template. We will wait until they recover.
        2. Alan
          Alan 22 February 2013 18: 40
          +3
          Quote: Sith Lord

          And where are those who praised the American aviation industry, they say they have already produced 50 F-35s, while in our country only a few T-50 prototypes fly?

          Will you wet Nastya? wink
      4. Botanologist
        Botanologist 22 February 2013 19: 31
        +3
        why are there 2457 of them?

        In general, I imagine a US war with someone in 20 years - hordes of "penguins" are attacking and attacking and attacking. With their characteristics, the loss of the Air Force, I think, will be very large. Attacks for 3-4 will be enough for the fleet if the opponent is serious.
      5. GSH-18
        GSH-18 22 February 2013 21: 23
        +3
        Quote: Nevsky
        I don't understand why there are 2457 of them to do ?? !!!

        The article says, to replace the F-15, F-16 on aircraft carriers (of which the amers have a damn thing) and on land air bases. They do not want to reduce the number of their attack aircraft, but they are not averse to changing them for new ones ...
      6. Corsair
        Corsair 22 February 2013 22: 51
        +5
        But get the SWISS ARMY KNIFE wassat Of course, not entirely on aviation topics, but the essence in my opinion reflects.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 26 February 2013 19: 01
          0
          Such an accessory will honor any Swiss laughing
    3. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 22 February 2013 17: 36
      +3
      Here is a table for you who buys US bonds and in what volumes. There are numbers in billions of dollars.
      For example China in the table has 1202,8 bonds = 1 trillion. 202 billion 800 million

      Russia in November reduced 5 billion, And in December 9 billion

    4. GSH-18
      GSH-18 22 February 2013 21: 16
      +1
      Bloopers article:
      "I have not released a single missile, and the software necessary for military operations remains on the drawing tablets" - I did not know that the software is made with a pencil on a tablet ... belay laughing

      "All three versions will be slower and less maneuverable than originally anticipated. Due to the reduced weight of the vehicle, it has become 25% more vulnerable to enemy fire." -In general, with a decrease in the weight of the aircraft, maneuverability, speed and a number of other important parameters improve! lol

      "Apparently, in the end, the F-35 will still be very unobtrusive." -Todd Harrison apparently hints that the Air Force will not see them anymore! laughing

      Under these giggles, hakhanki, it is necessary to quickly and efficiently test the PAK FA, do the necessary fine-tuning, and RUN IN SERIES as soon as possible !! soldier
    5. Joker
      Joker 23 February 2013 04: 23
      0
      Let them buy, it’s better for us hi God forbid change your mind laughing
  2. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 22 February 2013 15: 45
    +3
    17 trillion in debts don't bother them at all ...
    1. Alan
      Alan 22 February 2013 17: 12
      +4
      Quote: sasha 19871987

      17 trillion in debts don't bother them at all ...

      I don't think they are embarrassed because these debts will be forgiven to creditors.
      The worst thing is that lenders (including Russia) continue to lend to them.
      At the same time, they behave as if they are doing us a favor. negative
      1. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 22 February 2013 17: 49
        0
        I answered above there, I wanted you, but apparently I did not press anywhere.
        1. Alan
          Alan 22 February 2013 19: 02
          +2
          Thanks; I will definitely familiarize myself with the specifics. But even a cursory glance raises questions: in connection with what the purchases of bonds in October increased sharply compared to September? The shoulder "am" was framed or ..... And at the same time, the annual dynamics is still positive for America, or am I wrong? hi

          Comrade General of the Army news specially for you (though not in the subject) posted today by RIA Novosti
          MOSCOW, February 22 - RIA Novosti. Army generals, including Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, have returned to their shoulder straps the marshal's star, which they had in Soviet times, follows from a presidential decree posted on Friday on the official portal of legal information.


          "The diameter of the embroidered state emblem of the Russian Federation, the stars of the Marshal of the Russian Federation, the stars of the general of the army and the stars of the admiral of the fleet are 40 mm," the document says.

          There are no active marshals and admirals of the fleet in Russia. At the same time, at least ten officers have the ranks of army generals.

          As a source in the Russian military department explained to RIA Novosti, the generals of the army, instead of the current four stars with a diameter of two centimeters, will now have one star with a diameter of four centimeters - like a marshal. At the same time, the marshals of Russia, who do not exist now, will be distinguished from the generals of the army by the presence of a coat of arms on their shoulder straps.

          Thus, at the upcoming Victory Parade on May 9, Shoigu may appear already with a marshal's star on his shoulder straps. drinks soldier
  3. ziqzaq
    ziqzaq 22 February 2013 15: 52
    +15
    F-35 - wunderfawl, bubble, reason for cutting money ...
    Oo ... I didn't think, maybe this is the secret weapon of the Russians? And what about Carnegie: "if you want to force someone to do something, do it so that he wants to do it" ....
    I remembered an old Soviet anecdote, so: Cape Canaveral on the launch platform, a shuttle ready to launch at the edge of the cosmodrome, two crows.
    Flies - says one crow.
    Nope, it won't fly - another answers.
    No, it will fly - the first one starts to argue.
    You will see - says another crow.
    Then the shuttle starts, takes off and after flying explodes a little (Challenger).
    Well, I’ve done it, says the first crow.
    I SERVE THE SOVIET UNION - the second answers.

    With the coming holiday of the Defender of the Fatherland, comrades !!!!!!!!
    1. vjhbc
      vjhbc 22 February 2013 16: 52
      +4
      soon we will see a lot of x / f with the participation of these planes in them, they will advertise them so that the sheikhs will salivate, and if this does not help, they will give in the teeth and only bloody saliva will flow back and will buy through tears and blood
    2. Jipo
      Jipo 22 February 2013 18: 17
      +4
      I think history is not studied at all at the Pentagon, the USSR collapsed not only because of the ineffective management of the "Tagged" and the betrayal of the elites, but also not the last reason was the desire to protect itself and resist the SDI threat. In the 90s, the United States simply choked with the prospects of final possession of the world, and therefore decided that the moment had come for a technological breakthrough so that no competitor could come close to them in terms of power. So they overstrained themselves, they thought they had time, but then no one needed wars, the increased power of China, Russia, which in spite of everything did not die, and the European Union, which became a market competitor and began to scatter its finances, ended the "fat" years, began to live by selling debts to their direct competitor - China, printing green papers. Threats have become too many and it has become too expensive to resist, everything must be changed and the "ghost of Gorbachev" is wandering in Washington. All issues can be resolved by war, but it takes a long time to build missile defense, there is no defense, and missiles from US competitors, the US will have enough for the same. What's next? An old proven method - 5 columns in competing countries, let them explode from within, at the expense of paid "elites". A time of global destabilization awaits us, we started with an easy one - Africa and the Middle East, if Gaddafi would have helped, everything would have been different.
  4. sined0707
    sined0707 22 February 2013 15: 54
    +5
    I think that they will not fly anywhere, if everything is so bad on paper, then it's scary to imagine what it really is.
    And this is good news for us good
    1. Komodo
      Komodo 22 February 2013 16: 09
      +11
      Sukhoi made them all the same !! Previously, they used our work, but decided to do something of their own, and flew by. Sukhoi went through a very difficult period. But HOW did he make them! Without billions. With a brain drain. On outdated hardware.
      Dry, BRAVO !!

      "At the same time, the PAK FA is head and shoulders above even Russian fighters of the 4th generation, which are steeper than our fifth."
      1. Shturmovik
        Shturmovik 22 February 2013 16: 38
        +1
        The only question is when the PAK FA for a start at least in Akhtubinsk fly around
      2. bulvas
        bulvas 22 February 2013 16: 40
        +2
        By the way, the PAK FA also does not fly as it should ...
        1. GSH-18
          GSH-18 22 February 2013 22: 11
          +2
          Quote: bulvas
          By the way, the PAK FA also does not fly as it should.

          Beautiful planes always fly better than others! good
        2. The shelezyak
          The shelezyak 23 February 2013 00: 23
          +1
          By the way, the PAK FA doesn't fly as it should either.

          tell me how to fly laughing
          1. Shturmovik
            Shturmovik 23 February 2013 00: 26
            -3
            In addition to the airframe and the fuselage, there is nothing in it yet. Yes, how beautiful the plane is, but so far not a fighter.
        3. ikrut
          ikrut 23 February 2013 12: 48
          +1
          Quote: bulvas
          By the way, the PAK FA also does not fly as it should ...

          So how should it be? Don't keep it to yourself. Sound out.
          Which one up? Or downward?
      3. vjhbc
        vjhbc 22 February 2013 16: 43
        -2
        this is an absolutely irresponsible statement of a combat aircraft yet, and when it will not be known, and the pakfa is a platform for working out concepts and equipment (and about tyrili, this is a common practice and ours are one of the first to steal and copy)
        1. Komodo
          Komodo 22 February 2013 16: 48
          +3
          Will finish. Fly, work out, fly around.
          Someone in doubt?
          1. Shturmovik
            Shturmovik 22 February 2013 16: 52
            -1
            No one doubts that they will finish and fly, the question is how. Su-34 also seems to be flying and even in service, only it will be completed for a very long time
            1. Komodo
              Komodo 22 February 2013 17: 00
              0
              poll how. Su-34 also seems to fly and

              Some bastard has already sold it to China. Geopolitical adversary.
              I am crying.
            2. Komodo
              Komodo 22 February 2013 17: 08
              +4
              No one doubts that they will finish and fly, the question is how. Su-34 also seems to be flying and even in service, only it will be completed for a very long time

              Some bastard has already sold it to China. And SU-35 too. Geopolitical adversary. I was crying.
              1. GSH-18
                GSH-18 22 February 2013 22: 14
                +1
                Quote: Komodo
                Some bastard has already sold it to China. And SU-35 too. Geopolitical adversary. I was crying.

                Facts in the studio !? belay
                1. Komodo
                  Komodo 22 February 2013 22: 40
                  0
                  Facts in the studio !?

                  http://vpk.name/news/84793_Su35_uletaet_v_Kitai.html
                  http://vpk.name/news/83331_su35_dan_zelenyii_svet_na_kitaiskii_ryinok.html
                  http://lenta.ru/news/2010/06/04/su33/
                  1. GSH-18
                    GSH-18 22 February 2013 23: 17
                    0
                    Quote: Komodo
                    http://vpk.name/news/84793_Su35_uletaet_v_Kitai.html

                    V. Dzirkaln did not specify when the contract could be signed and how many Su-35 fighters will be delivered to China. THE CONTRACT ISN'T EVEN SIGNED YET!
                    Quote: Komodo
                    http://vpk.name/news/83331_su35_dan_zelenyii_svet_na_kitaiskii_ryinok.html

                    The same general phrases
                    Quote: Komodo
                    http://lenta.ru/news/2010/06/04/su33/

                    Info about j-15 has already been discussed on the site. They won't have enough brains to copy the Su-35, so that it would at least approximately correspond to the original. Yes, and ours have already been taught by bitter experience, they will supply both technological and contractual accessories. In general, you should not worry much about this topic yes
                    1. Komodo
                      Komodo 22 February 2013 23: 23
                      0
                      If infa about selling a duck, I'll be very happy)))
            3. FATEMOGAN
              FATEMOGAN 22 February 2013 18: 03
              +1
              Quote: Shturmovik
              No one doubts that they will finish and fly, the question is how. Su-34 also seems to be flying and even in service, only it will be completed for a very long time

              And this information, you didn’t accidentally pick up on Izvestia? If I am not mistaken, no one has written about the "problems" of the Su-34 except them. And to believe "Izvestia", you will excuse me, do not respect yourself, they regularly allow some kind of misinformation.
              1. Shturmovik
                Shturmovik 22 February 2013 18: 20
                0
                No, not in Izvestia, I am very familiar with this plane
                1. FATEMOGAN
                  FATEMOGAN 22 February 2013 19: 18
                  0
                  Quote: Shturmovik
                  No, not in Izvestia, I am very familiar with this plane

                  Could it be, in more detail, what problems does the Su-34 have ?, where does this information come from? and what does it mean that you know him very closely?
                  1. Shturmovik
                    Shturmovik 22 February 2013 19: 35
                    -1
                    It is impossible in more detail! The committee members are not asleep! You are an adult
                    1. FATEMOGAN
                      FATEMOGAN 22 February 2013 20: 14
                      +2
                      [quote = Shturmovik] There is no more detail! The committee members are not asleep! You are an adult [/ quote
                      I believe, I believe, then I will also tell you a secret, only to no one, this plane is even closer to me than yours and everything is fine with it. in more detail Impossible, colleagues do not sleep bully
                      1. Shturmovik
                        Shturmovik 22 February 2013 20: 31
                        -1
                        Yes, yes, and in one flight both on the ground and in the air))))
                      2. Shturmovik
                        Shturmovik 22 February 2013 20: 37
                        0
                        this plane is even closer to me than yours [/ quote]
                        Yes, you have a lot of them.)))
            4. cherkas.oe
              cherkas.oe 22 February 2013 19: 57
              +1
              Quote: Shturmovik
              Su-34 also seems to be flying and even in service, only it will be completed for a very long time

              No matter how he repeated the fate of the Yak-28, which was completed for 28 years, they were finished until they were written off.
            5. Avenger711
              Avenger711 22 February 2013 21: 36
              0
              Does he have problems?
            6. ultra
              ultra 25 February 2013 13: 57
              0
              Quote: Shturmovik
              they will only finish it for a very long time

              The range of weapons will be expanded, the equipment will be improved, but the aircraft itself is ready! hi
          2. Massik
            Massik 22 February 2013 23: 52
            0
            what is interesting su 47 did not like?)
        2. Sirocco
          Sirocco 22 February 2013 17: 31
          0
          And I thought that the platform was "Berkut"
        3. Komodo
          Komodo 22 February 2013 17: 43
          +2
          (as for tyrili, this is a common practice and ours are one of the first to steal and copy)

          I worked in one defense research institute. In the 90s, Soros created a program to support science in the form of a grant system. To receive a grant, it was necessary to send him the accumulated material for the analysis of "prospects". All carried.
          Everyone was sure that they were sincerely helping us.
          1. Sirocco
            Sirocco 22 February 2013 17: 50
            +2
            Just like the Japanese, they made breakthroughs in technology through open publications in the magazines Tekhnika youth, Modelist constructor, Science and life. This literature was bought for thousands of tanks in the era of the USSR.
            1. ziqzaq
              ziqzaq 22 February 2013 17: 55
              +3
              Quote: Sirocco
              Just like the Japanese, they made breakthroughs in technology through open publications in the magazines Tekhnika youth, Modelist constructor, Science and life. This literature was bought for thousands of tanks in the era of the USSR.

              That's for sure!!! That was the state's concern for the youth !!!!
            2. Komodo
              Komodo 22 February 2013 18: 01
              +3
              Just like the Japanese, they made breakthroughs in technology through open publications in the magazines Tekhnika youth, Modelist constructor, Science and life. They bought this literature for thousands of tanks in the era of the USSR

              That's a magazine. Then drawings, programs, laboratory data, calculations, diagrams, everything! They also translated themselves for better readability. This is no longer a struggle between technical intelligence services.
              There are no words to say what it was. It doesn't work without mats.
            3. rereture
              rereture 22 February 2013 19: 50
              0
              But now Japan is developing mechanical tails, models of the buttocks that mimic emotions and more. laughing
              [img] http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://supreme2.ru/images/1264-shippo2.
              jpg&imgrefurl=http://supreme2.ru/1264-shippo/&h=567&w=490&sz=49&tbnid=niLehpSwxZ
              EQhM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=99&prev=/search?q=%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87
              %D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9+%D1%85%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82&tbm=isch&tbo=u&zoo
              m=1&q=механический хвост&usg=__Lais3YezebzP81DnhvClkDs1su4=&docid=pZUWUx0-pEYLvM&sa=X&ei=MpMnUfKgGP
              L74QSL24HwAg&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAQ&dur=1787[/img]

              http://kratko-news.com/2012/05/15/yaponskie-uchenye-sozdali-robota-yagodicy/
      4. Kaa
        Kaa 22 February 2013 17: 45
        +1
        Quote: Komodo
        At the same time, the PAK FA is head and shoulders above even the 4th generation Russian fighters, which are steeper than our fifth

        “It should be admitted that in general, despite the criticism of the JSF program, this fighter is a fairly perfect and harmonious aviation complex. Mistakes can be made in something else - in the formation of the very concept of the aircraft and in determining its place in the general structure of the US armed forces. that in the first half of the XXI century the United States will not have any worthy military rivals, politicians and managers “set” their industry a plane for wars like the Iraqi or Balkan wars, when the enemy “appointed” for “exemplary flogging” is many times inferior to the United States practically in It is in such a war that the JSF's capabilities would be most fully revealed and the grouping of these aircraft would show the highest combat effectiveness with the lowest relative costs and losses. But, alas, we are witnessing another collapse of the American dream. The world is becoming more multipolar, and this implies the emergence on the "world chess board" and other strong players, armed, naturally oh, and strong aviation. And such aircraft, in addition to the United States, are now being created in Europe (gaining more and more political, financial, scientific and technical independence from America), in Russia, which, contrary to all forecasts, did not split into "specific principalities" in China, which more and more confidently combines the eastern hard work with Western technologies, in Japan, which is also gradually turning into a mighty military power, whose citizens have hardly forgotten about Hiroshima and who arranged it for them. India, Iran, South Korea, Brazil are more and more confidently declaring their desire to achieve military-technical independence ... Many of these countries are far from being on friendly terms with the United States, and the United States is practically unable to influence the process of purchasing weapons (including the most modern ones). To counteract such adversaries, America today requires not only (and not so much) universal highly economical aviation systems capable of serving for many years at minimal costs and selling well abroad to countries that have fully integrated their military infrastructure with the American. Real "street fighters" are again in demand, although not optimal in a number of peacetime parameters, but "sharpened" to achieve the main goal - victory in a full-scale air war. However, it is clear that, at least until the mid-2020s, the F-35 will be America's main production combat aircraft. But already now we can state that the F-35 will face a long and difficult struggle for international markets, in which American aircraft builders will be confronted by strong and dynamic opponents who are not inclined to forgive mistakes.
        5.php
        1. Komodo
          Komodo 22 February 2013 17: 54
          +1
          At the same time, the PAK FA is head and shoulders above even the 4th generation Russian fighters, which are steeper than our fifth

          Russia, like the United States, has a large fleet of aircraft with a close to the maximum service life. His combat readiness is also supported by overhaul and modernization. For the time being, Americans are balancing on the verge of making a decision: either continue to pull the F-35 program, or go back to purchasing new aircraft of the old design, or combine both solutions. The last two options compromising the F-35 in the foreign market, and in the case of failure by partners to make purchases, make the cost of a new aircraft excessive and useless. Unlike the Americans, we have already launched a program to re-equip the Air Force on the 4 + generation aircraft, which, at a minimum, are not inferior in combat capabilities to the F-35 (Su-34, Su-30CM, Su-35 and updated versions of the MiG-29) . The program of the fifth generation fighter PAK FA has a number of advantages over the US.
          http://topwar.ru/15541-pak-fa-protiv-f-22.html
      5. GSH-18
        GSH-18 22 February 2013 21: 39
        0
        Quote: Komodo
        At the same time, the PAK FA is head and shoulders above even the 4th generation Russian fighters, which are cooler than our fifth

        What does this mean? belay laughing
        1. Komodo
          Komodo 22 February 2013 22: 32
          0
          At the same time, the PAK FA is head and shoulders above even the 4th generation Russian fighters, which are steeper than our fifth

          This is amers say.
          1. GSH-18
            GSH-18 22 February 2013 23: 37
            0
            Quote: Komodo
            This is amers say.

            Ahh .. Thank you)) Che that did not immediately understand who was talking about what wassat
    2. vjhbc
      vjhbc 22 February 2013 16: 47
      +2
      they will fly, they will finish it, and the costs will be covered by sales to other countries, and those who will work out (turn off the gas) they have enough different opportunities to press
      1. GSH-18
        GSH-18 22 February 2013 22: 39
        0
        Quote: vjhbc
        they will fly, they will finish it, and the costs will be covered by sales to other countries, and those who will work out (turn off the gas) they have enough different opportunities to press

        Only these opportunities have diminished lately lol
  5. RAMBO
    RAMBO 22 February 2013 16: 32
    -5
    Blah blah blah, what a bad habit of making fools of Americans, they are such idiyots, and the whole world is beneath them, then in this world there are not even idiyots, but rams. Such articles in the style of Misha Zadornov distract from reality and objective assessments.
    1. mivmim
      mivmim 22 February 2013 16: 43
      +6
      What a bad habit of making fools of Russians?
      Real and objective assessments of the USA and their trolls
      you can shove it in ...
      1. RAMBO
        RAMBO 22 February 2013 22: 17
        +2
        Who and who reads such crooked articles and rejoices at what fools they are. He did not say for everyone, but only for the naive Chukchi youths.
    2. Serg_Y
      Serg_Y 22 February 2013 16: 48
      0
      It is not they who control the printing press, with intelligence, force, cunning.
    3. Larus
      Larus 22 February 2013 20: 18
      0
      Change the flag to the rainbow one.
      1. RAMBO
        RAMBO 22 February 2013 22: 13
        +1
        Look at the clown, you will shoot yourself, you reassure yourself that you are smarter than amers, well, well, dream here on the network, you can sleep peacefully
    4. ikrut
      ikrut 23 February 2013 13: 52
      +1
      Quote: RAMBO
      Such articles in the style of Misha Zadornov distract from reality and objective assessments.

      So all the claims to the State Department. This is an American article. And from a very authoritative source in their circles.
      And where is "zadornovschina" here? Indicate, plz. A perfectly normal, slightly critical review of the state of affairs. There is no panic. Yes, they have problems with the plane. And not the easiest ones. Yes, they would like things to go better here. What's military? If you know "reality and objective assessments" - so into their studio. Pts. I would like to learn the truth. And then, you have all the "idiyots". Goyim, in one word. You are white and fluffy alone.
      So address all insults only to yourself, to your loved ones.
  6. Larus
    Larus 22 February 2013 16: 34
    +3
    F 22 stands while old planes are blown away in all conflicts, so F 35 will stand in hangars and fly in a straight line. And for war they will buy drones, but they will finish off old planes.
  7. pa_nik
    pa_nik 22 February 2013 16: 37
    +1
    In any case, which one is better can be determined exclusively by contact. Satya is interesting, but I would like our designers and aircraft manufacturers to have fewer questions while understanding "their" problems. good
  8. Download Do Re Mi
    Download Do Re Mi 22 February 2013 16: 38
    +1
    To be honest, it looks like a fairy tale!
  9. TRAFFIC
    TRAFFIC 22 February 2013 17: 12
    +3
    The article is about nothing, with errors in facts and judgments. Nothing in the F-35 program will change, they will finish it and there will be a suitable plane.
  10. bulvas
    bulvas 22 February 2013 17: 17
    +3
    not the first aircraft being built, while the aircraft they turned out to be good
    that they spend a lot of money - they have always spent and only got richer, both people and the state.

    Throwing hats - not building planes, it's easier to scold those who live and work better

    We still have more reasons for ridicule in our country.
  11. Sirocco
    Sirocco 22 February 2013 17: 28
    +3
    Pilots love the F-35. In the cockpit, he has new instruments, keys and buttons. This comment smiled, it says it all. Fenichki, pastes, lettuce, bows. Like in the movies. But who will fly on it, this is a monument (made of gold) It is very expensive, however, to fight on it lol
  12. anchonsha
    anchonsha 22 February 2013 17: 46
    +1
    Thank God that in the vaunted shitty country No. 1 there is also a lot of Serdyukovism, based on all the vicissitudes of creating an F-35 with such a fabulous cost. Apparently corruption is also flourishing there, although there is not a word about it in the article. In our country, the delays in the creation of the 5th generation aircraft were objective, and then ours created, are already experiencing. The F-35 does not even have a final draft, although it has already been created.
    1. bulvas
      bulvas 22 February 2013 17: 49
      +2
      Thank God that there is also a lot of Serdyukovism in the vaunted crap country No. 1,


      Right! the main thing is not that we were better, but that they were worse!

      with such a mentality, we will quickly surpass everyone
  13. sxn278619
    sxn278619 22 February 2013 17: 48
    -2
    Why the Pentagon, the RF Ministry of Defense - one gang - a watering can.
    1. bulvas
      bulvas 22 February 2013 17: 52
      +2
      Why the Pentagon, the RF Ministry of Defense - one gang - a watering can.


      - the most correct thought, of those that sounded here
  14. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 22 February 2013 20: 01
    +3
    Yes, we need to pray for their 35th, let them fumble with him a little longer, until they live to see default.
    1. Serg_Y
      Serg_Y 22 February 2013 20: 27
      +3
      QUIET!!! The walls have ears too. The F-35 is good, with buttons.
      1. GSH-18
        GSH-18 22 February 2013 22: 51
        +2
        Quote: Serg_Y
        The F-35 is good, with buttons.

        Yes. The buttons are cool there! Much cooler than others belay lol laughing
  15. Fox
    Fox 22 February 2013 21: 17
    +2
    dear mattress covers! do not listen to anyone and do not read the comments on this site! you are the most correct guys! you have the best F35 ... you just need a little money (500 watermelons) and a little time (25 years) and it will fly ... and it doesn't matter, that the "backward" Russia, China. Somalia ... will have aircraft of the 10+ generation, your most expensive ... for DEAR, YES, LOVE ... good luck in all your endeavors. and continuation. you still have evil russkie "ideas "thrown how you can spend the loot usefully (for Russia)
  16. zmey
    zmey 22 February 2013 21: 32
    +4
    let them make their wunderwaffe more expensive and longer !!! the more they spend and the longer they will do, the more they will lose both customers and money and time. Let them cycle on their waffle !!! the sooner their "popular" discontent will rise and the collapse of the entire economy is possible (for us the main thing is to throw off their papers in time, thereby pushing them).
    In general, our task is to "tyrit" their technologies and ideas, and most importantly, they will still take care of their country and strenuously put things in order in their house (without looking back at any orange pedagogue of the State Department), and who will greatly interfere with their advice and budget cuts, so the Moscow-Magadan railway is not yet completed !!!!!
  17. SerAll
    SerAll 22 February 2013 22: 56
    +1
    I think you have to fight finances, and I am against the fact that the United States is cutting the budget! We need to help them to invest more money, even to sell some kind of "stealth" chip! for example, from space, let the shuttles build, gold is not mined by asteroids, and we will help!
  18. CAPILATUS
    CAPILATUS 23 February 2013 00: 46
    +2
    there is a great saying: if you cannot repay the debt, borrow even more money

    With all this fuss around and around the F-35, somehow it turns out)))

    It’s good that at least Canada didn’t get the urine in the head to rest against purchases. Where nafog such an expensive fighter for a 35 million country ??
    Buy a PAK-FA, gentlemen! :)
  19. Avenger711
    Avenger711 23 February 2013 03: 09
    +1
    But that was long before drones confidently took over the scene.


    Radio-controlled aircraft are 100 years old at lunchtime, but so far no one relies on them, and manned aircraft carry out the main work to directly engage targets. The reasons are quite obvious, it is easier to shut down a communication channel than an airplane, there are problems with the radio horizon and ping (it’s not painful to steer through a satellite at 36000 km altitude), and up to robots capable of independently making a decision to open fire like cancer before China.

    He has been standing idle in hangars around the world for seven years now, and the country at that time was and is waging wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.


    Did hundreds of Su-27 and MiG-29 help a lot in Chechnya?
  20. Alexey M
    Alexey M 23 February 2013 06: 20
    +1
    It's just that amers can't bring to mind without us
    The .F-35B (modification of the F-35 with GDP) is very close to the Yak-141 in design and layout. It also uses a combined power plant (1 PMD + 1 lift fan), a compartment with a lift fan (it performs the same function as the PD on the Yak) is also located behind the cockpit, and the lift-sustainer engine nozzle is also covered by tail booms , although their length is shorter. The design of the PMD nozzle still uses the idea first embodied in the Р79В-300 (segments rotating in opposite directions) [20]. This happened because in the mid-1990s, the F-35 development company, Lockheed Martin, for a short time collaborated with the Yakovlev Design Bureau [67]. According to some reports, in 1995, with the permission of the Russian government, the Yakovlevites sold to the Americans all the documentation for the Yak-38 and Yak-141 [49].
    Another project of the fifth generation supersonic VTOL aircraft is the Boeing X-32B. It uses the same layout as the Harrier-type aircraft - with a single lift-sustainer engine F119-614C. This engine is a modification of the engine developed for the F-22 Raptor aircraft, however, in addition to the flat nozzle, it has two front small nozzles and jet rudders for the GDP. The main advantage of the X-32B, like the F-35B, in front of the Yak is the ability to fly at supersonic without using afterburner. Also, both aircraft surpass the Yak-141 in maximum combat load - 2600 [45] kg for the Yak versus 6350 [68] kg for the X-32B and 6800 [69] kg for the F-35B. And besides that, an important advantage of the F-35B (as well as the latest modifications of the Harrier) is the ability to refuel in the air, which makes it possible to increase the combat radius.
  21. Fodaorugel
    Fodaorugel 23 February 2013 07: 22
    +1
    Now theirs F-35 is my personal friend. So did McCain, who killed a bunch of his colleagues and ditched a bunch of expensive equipment.