Belarus will help us: the Osvey aircraft and the fate of regional aviation

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Belarus will help us: the Osvey aircraft and the fate of regional aviation
It was decided to name the aircraft developed at UZGA after the lakes. There are “Baikal” and “Ladoga”. There will also be the LMS-192 Osvey shown in the photo, named after the Belarusian reservoir.


Small aviation in big Russia


The geographical location and climate of Russia, like no other country in the world, require little Aviation.



Excuse the pun, but there should be a lot of small aviation in Russia. This was well understood in the Soviet Union, when almost every remote village had an unpaved runway. Things got to the point that in Soviet times, you could go fishing on an An-2 for a few rubles. For example, in the 60s, a flight from the Novgorod airport to Lake Ilmen and back cost two rubles. The service operated in winter - the "maize" landed in the morning right on the ice, and in the evening took the fishermen to the city. This, of course, was a subsidized service from the state, but the USSR could afford it. But not now.


Until 2022, the main manufacturer of equipment for regional aviation was the Ural Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA). In the photo - assembly of Czech L-410

With the collapse of the state, small aviation died for a long time.

Perhaps the massive construction of a road network in hard-to-reach regions has partially solved the problem of passenger traffic?

By no means – up to 60 percent of Russia’s territory still does not have access to basic transport communications. In fifteen regions of Russia, aviation is the leading transport system; 28 thousand settlements do not have access to land and water transport networks at all.

Just look at the number of airfields in 1990 and in 2024 - more than 1 sites and 400, respectively. Even taking into account the collapse of the country into the Union of Independents, the scale of the reduction is impressive.

The regions of the Russian North, Eastern Siberia and the Far East suffered the most - on certain routes, passenger traffic decreased by 50 times. The comparison, of course, is a little incorrect, but very indicative - in 2019 in the United States there were 100 small aircraft per 76,5 thousand residents, and in Russia there were only 3,1 aircraft. This is 25 times less.


Now about the technology used in small aircraft.

Nine out of ten aircraft in operation are the good old An-2. The cars, of course, are solid and reliable, but 90 percent of them are already over 20 years old. Last year alone, 80–90 percent of small aircraft were subject to write-off due to wear and tear. How many are actually still working is still unknown. Back in 2018, not the most optimistic thoughts were expressed at one of the civil aviation forums. In particular,

“Aircraft operating in territories not covered by the road network of the Russian Federation completely exhaust their service life. And within two or three years, this resource will be finished off, and there will be nothing to fly across a huge part of Russia.

Even if the planes are purchased and delivered, there will be no one to fly. The average age of flight personnel who can fly in this part of the country is well over 50 years. According to calculations by the National Research Center of the Zhukovsky Institute, in these vast territories, thousands of ships with a capacity of three to five seats are needed to organize air traffic. Airlines don't have anything like that at all.

Only general aviation can provide transport security class. If this is not done within two to three years, 80% of the country will not have any transport to solve urgent problems.”

The thoughts turned out to be a little panicky - the country did not completely lose small aviation, but it seems that the end of the industry was simply delayed.


Aircraft engines of the VK-800 series are the main hope of domestic small aviation

All of the above suggests that small aviation in modern Russia is not a whim, but a vital necessity. Over time, the severity of the problem will only worsen.

And it is completely unclear how the state intends to develop, for example, the Northern Sea Route, and populate the east of the country without regional aviation.

“Osvey” made in Russia – Belarus


Against the backdrop of the bleak situation with regional air transport, the timing and volumes of deliveries of small-class aircraft are being revised in Russia. In the aviation industry development program until 2030, the latest announced reduction in planned production volumes is associated with low-capacity aircraft. Moreover, none of them have yet been mass-produced, and plans have already been cut.

The nine-seat Baikal LMS-901 will be built in 2030 copies by 139 instead of the planned 154. Regional carriers were supposed to receive the first aircraft this year, but now they will have to wait until next year.

The Ural Civil Aviation Plant in Yekaterinburg, in addition to the Baikal, was supposed to localize the 19-seat L-410, but it didn’t happen. The aircraft was developed in the late 60s in Czechoslovakia, was produced at UZGA for a long time, but was never localized. Since 2022, the production of the car has been impossible.

If the aircraft cannot be imported, then a new aircraft should be created. Managers were guided by approximately this logic when they came up with the LMS-192 Osvey project. With the light hand of planners, by 2030, 158 Osveevs will appear in Russia at once instead of 178 Czech-Russian L-410s.

What is Osway?

From a geographical point of view, this is a lake in the Vitebsk region of Belarus. The second largest area in the Republic, by the way. A good place for fishing - the reservoir is home to pike, roach, ide, perch and other prey.

From a technical point of view, the Osvey is a twin-engine aircraft, which is “being developed within the framework of the Comprehensive Interdepartmental Cooperation Program between the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus in the field of aircraft construction.” Since April of this year, Belarusians have become a partner of the program, or more precisely, specialists from OJSC “558th Aviation Repair Plant” in Baranovichi.

Примечательно, что местные никогда самостоятельно гражданские самолеты не строили и тем более не разрабатывали. Если не считать UAV «Гриф-1» и несколько доморощенных систем авиа-РЭБ.

The second partner in the Osvey program will be the above-mentioned UZGM. The design of the new aircraft will use developments from the Baikal (9 seats) and Ladoga (44 seats).

How the Russian-Belarusian aircraft will be related to the large Ladoga is unknown, but the Osvey has the same engine as the Baikal. This is a Ural gas turbine VK-800SM with a take-off power of 800 hp. With. The Baikal has one such engine, while the Osvey has a pair.

Why was it necessary to build the aircraft on a parity basis with Belarus?

Firstly, it's cheaper. According to the Prime Minister of the Republic Roman Golovchenko, costs are divided in half between Minsk and the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade. At the same time, it is still unclear how much money will be used to build the production site - the existing capacity of the 558th aircraft repair plant is clearly not enough. UZGA in partnership will be the lead developer and certificate holder.

Probably, some of the cars will be produced in Yekaterinburg. The Belarusian side will have a license for the series and permission to make changes to the design. This is a cunning distribution of responsibilities.

The next reason for cooperation on the Osvey project may be the workload of the UZGA in finishing the Baikal and the larger TVRS-44 Ladoga.

According to the intergovernmental agreement, at least 558 Osvey fuselages and half of the finished aircraft will be assembled at the site of the 178th repair plant. It can be assumed that the second half will be released from Belarusian vehicle kits already at UZGA.

The third reason for cooperation may be partial avoidance of possible sanctions. Whatever one may say, it is easier to get scarce components through Belarus than to order directly to Yekaterinburg.






VK-800SM units. Source: ixbt.com

The Osvey is a high-wing aircraft with a fixed tricycle landing gear, which is a classic solution for aircraft of this class. Apparently, the device will be able to work with ground waterways and in “extreme climatic conditions,” that is, it will be useful in the Far North and the Northern Sea Route.

As mentioned above, a pair of VK-800 aircraft engines in the SM modification will be placed under the wing of the aircraft. And this is the most problematic part of the structure. The fact is that the product has not yet been finalized, although it has been in development since the mid-2000s. First, the engine was developed at the Klimov Design Bureau, and then the project was transferred to UZGA. The An-2 replacement light aircraft LMS-901 “Baikal” was assigned as the priority user, but the prototype made its first flight with the General Electric H80-100 product.

So far they promise that the VK-800SM will take to the skies in the third quarter of this year, and the motor will receive a type certificate on New Year’s Eve 2025.

The appearance of Osveev in the skies of Belarus and Russia is planned no earlier than the end of 2026. Then we’ll fly fishing for “a couple of rubles” there and back.
138 comments
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  1. 12+
    3 July 2024 04: 48
    Thanks for the info.
    A curious trend of modern times, unknown companies, lacking experience and history, bypass the well-known and eminent ones.
    1. 17+
      3 July 2024 07: 14
      bypass the famous and eminent.
      What did they get by, may I ask? So far I have seen only one ready-made good machine - the training SR-10. An excellent competitor and replacement for the Czech L-39. As a result, time was lost. Years have passed, there is no plane. And in the small area we don’t have a damn thing. Neither an analogue of the DHC-2 Beaver, nor the DHC-6 Twin Otter, nor even the Annushka. We cannot make airplanes that have been produced for more than half a century to this day. Why did Stalin not disdain to buy licenses and technologies, but do you see ours are “bad”?
      1. +5
        3 July 2024 08: 02
        Quote: dauria
        So far I have seen only one ready-made good machine - the training SR-10

        And we don’t dream about the roar of the cosmodrome. Not this icy blue. And we dream about grass, grass near the house. Green, green grass.
      2. +3
        3 July 2024 10: 54
        We produced the L-410, a good car, but in 2022 the Czechs cut off the oxygen supply. So Osvey is a replacement for the L-410 due to sanctions, a forced measure. But why they delayed so much with replacing the An-2 is the question. What they ultimately chose, I’m talking about Baikal, essentially a pig in a poke, and nothing is clear. I hope everything will work out with Ladoga, there are no serious risks here.
      3. +4
        3 July 2024 11: 44
        Because YOURS need to buy Airbuses and Boeings, sports clubs and activists there, yachts and villas. As a davich, the Italians squeezed out 11 villas in Sicily from one such regime businessman, and you have never even heard his name.
        They're sitting here, dreaming about the An-2, you idiots.

        It’s been 8 years since I abandoned these aviation forums, where all this optimistic bullshit had already been strongly developed for a year already by 2009-2010, about “well, everything will begin now.”
        Years passed, budgets were cut, Pupkin signed programs, but things are still there.

        I remember the program from 2007. Oh girls, what can I tell you - by 2015 everything should have already happened.
        Then to the famous, but now specially subjected to oblivion, 2020. Oh, this program 2020, such a big document.

        Now...they are talking about 2030, by which 1000 aircraft must be made. Those. There are 5.5 years left, 181 aircraft per year.
        Yeah. Putriots, wake up, Botox has a different purpose, judging by the results. There has been nowhere and no one to make airplanes for a long time. NO ONE!! Even the Orenburg flight school (Gagarin) was demolished to xy.. yam, establishing some kind of cadet school or something like that on the ruins.

        For Pupkin's rise from his knees, all our great design bureaus - Mikoyan, Beriev, Myasishchev, Ilyushin, Mil, Kamov, Tupolev did nothing... nothing. They no longer exist as design teams. This is what Pupkin has been doing all these years.
        But every day another clacker comes out and starts singing about “America is terrified, well, everything has begun, etc.”

        The dry ones somehow survived due to the export of the Soviet Su-27 platform. Together with the bourgeoisie they were able to create the SSZH-100, FOR THEIR MARKET!!, where the kit is 20 to 80 in favor of the West. Yes, they gave birth to one inarticulate pacifist Su-57, which should already be written off due to old age, but he is still not in the army, as many as 6 units. did it last year.
        Yes, for some reason this unfortunate MS-21 is attributed to Yakovlev, which they wanted to make by the mid-90s, but somehow there was no time. Those. Yakovlev Design Bureau is also a corpse.

        And the buzz about a good future will be postponed to 2040, then to 2050, and so on. etc. etc. The anticipation of the holiday is better than the holiday itself.

        The Soviets made the IL-96 in 6 years.
        IL-114 from approval to takeoff in 4 years.
        Tu-204 in 5 years.
        And so, wherever you spit.

        Pupkin’s An-2 regime cannot repeat, which Antonov concocted before the war, without these autocads of yours, but it went into production from 47g. And Pupkin doesn’t need this An-2, just like those 85% of the destroyed RSFSR airports. His goals are the same as the situation in the country - ruins, backwardness, extinction, replacement of the population.
        Only unprocessed raw materials and semi-finished products of the 18th century level, there is news about this every day - gas, oil, timber, grain, pigs and slabs. And they have already organized a war for you so that you can quickly clear the territory, according to M. Thatcher.
        1. +2
          3 July 2024 14: 31
          Dear R_S_F_S_R_! I read, analyzed your comment, went to neurobiologists to negotiate the resuscitation of Joseph Vissartonovich, Lavrenty Pavlovich and Matvey Davydovich Berman... If the experiment succeeds, then Russia, again, will have “small aviation” and not only, and most importantly, what kind of assistants to our Supreme ....
        2. +1
          3 July 2024 16: 03
          Quote: R_S_F_S_R_
          Because YOURS need to buy Airbuses and Boeings, sports clubs and activists there, yachts and villas.

          Right. Because they earn money. And they don’t single-handedly support a domestic manufacturer, whose work is worse and more expensive, and even with unclear service.
          The market has decided - large-scale production always produces a product cheaper / So, Boeing and Airbus, which gobbled up their competitors, are now out of competition (until Boeing is ruined by the agenda).
          For a domestic aircraft, you need to hit the market. As the United States did in the 30s with the merchant fleet. At that time, US shipyards built more expensively and took longer than European ones, and their ships were more expensive to operate. And then the Merchant Marine Act was adopted in the USA - state subsidies to the shipbuilding industry, state subsidies to shipping companies, subject to ordering ships only in the USA.
          1. 0
            3 July 2024 22: 22
            Alexey RA
            It was not the market that decided, but the officials and managers of the airlines, who ate sweetly and relaxed on foreign business trips organized by Boeing and Airbus. And even Embraer got involved.
            And they used kickbacks to build cottages and buy Maybachs.
            That's the whole market
            1. +1
              4 July 2024 11: 05
              Quote: futurohunter
              It was not the market that decided, but the officials and managers of the airlines, who ate sweetly and relaxed on foreign business trips organized by Boeing and Airbus. And even Embraer got involved.

              Yes, yes, yes... the damned managers, between a serial aircraft flying in hardware with an established maintenance system and another unparalleled miracle in the world of a single assembly with unclear delivery times for spare parts, had the audacity to choose foreign aircraft. And they had to, regardless of the profits of the shareholders, support the domestic manufacturer - exactly until the first meeting of shareholders, at which they would be thrown overboard without golden parachutes... and it’s not a fact that only in a figurative sense. wink

              A manager is an employee whose task is to increase shareholder profits. If an aircraft manufacturer (read - the state) cannot provide favorable conditions for the purchase and operation of its products (like the United States in the 30s in the shipbuilding industry), the airline will choose a more profitable option.
        3. 0
          6 September 2024 00: 29
          And they have already organized a war for you so that you can quickly clear the territory, according to M. Thatcher.

          Not M. Thatcher, but M. Albright...
          1. 0
            15 September 2024 22: 46
            Google the original source of this quote - it's interesting
            1. -1
              15 September 2024 22: 47
              Yes, this "quote" is a fake, it was found out long ago...
      4. +2
        3 July 2024 12: 09
        dauria

        Why did Stalin not disdain to buy licenses and technologies, but do you see ours are “bad”?


        Apparently today it’s not “ours” who “won’t” buy, but “theirs” who “won’t” sell their technologies to “ours.”...
        1. +4
          3 July 2024 12: 40
          No, it’s just that some were statists in mentality, while others were parasites. Therefore, some bought the means of production, while others bought finished products and speculated on them. Therefore, even now we are left with nothing.
        2. +2
          3 July 2024 19: 20
          Dear Streck! I.V. Stalin was “not a fool” to buy from “foreign countries”, and when they didn’t want to sell they very successfully “stole” brains, documentation, technologies, even ready-made samples, which was practiced in later times.... And, now, we “white and fluffy”, capitalist “sharpened” for an honest market, partnerships, for money or very big money, and we, probably now, have somehow become “stuck” to “steal” when they don’t want to sell, perhaps we have forgotten how to “steal” , and those who knew how to do this professionally are already retired or even longer... So something like that about “zapadlo”, “buying” and “stealing” ..... I quite understandably, “wasted away”, Shtrek?
      5. Alf
        0
        3 July 2024 21: 21
        Quote: dauria
        But do you see ours being “bad”?

        But no one is selling.
        Quote: dauria
        Why Stalin did not hesitate to buy licenses and technologies,

        Have you not noticed that for the last 20-30 years no one has been selling licenses for anything, only joint ventures. As the company TsanradFabrik does, its motto is “we will build a company anywhere and with anyone.” But on the condition that only we make the central detail. With the ensuing consequences for the partner. It bucks and it’s not a box, but a set of spare parts.
        1. 0
          4 July 2024 11: 10
          Quote: Alf
          Have you not noticed that for the last 20-30 years no one has been selling licenses for anything, only joint ventures.

          And this still needs to be achieved. Remember the same Indians - how long they fought so that in contracts for the purchase of military equipment, instead of a pure “purchase of products as a set,” there was “joint production with technology transfer.”
          ICHH is funny to see how in discussions they are outraged by the “immensely impudent” demands of Indians for the transfer of technology and localization of production in India, and almost call those domestic leaders who are ready to fulfill the terms of Indian contracts as traitors - and then they cry that we are nobody does not want to sell technologies and licenses. smile
      6. +2
        3 July 2024 22: 18
        Such “ready-made machines” like the SR-10 are a dime a dozen. At any MAKS they were exhibited in dozens, and even flew. But under the conditions existing in our country, not a single one of them is in danger of being released in more than 2 copies. Persuaded, in three
        1. +2
          4 July 2024 08: 11
          This is for sure, we have already experienced this from our own experience and more than once. When individual high-ranking government officials have their own “candle factories,” who are they going to let into “their field.” They involve very smart people from economic and accounting institutes, they begin to demand schedules for the growth of production, with schedules for the promotion of these products throughout the World, and they also demand that the products be based on “new physical principles.” Guys, if you want to save your nerves and money, don’t meddle in these matters, you will still be duped and made out to be idiots. So Belousov wonders where 11 trillion rubles went, but there is nothing surprising. The money goes from the budget to development and production, the hustlers immediately take 80% of the amount for themselves, 20% goes into production, where the hustlers there leave 20% of the remaining amount for the developers. I had the opportunity to work under this scheme as a developer. And you wonder why we have problems with technology and equipment. The usual story, a repetition of what happened in 1914, although then it all ended with the Great October Revolution, let's see how it ends now.
    2. 23+
      3 July 2024 08: 04
      The author correctly noted that there were more than 1400 airfields in the RSFSR and they were constantly being built, but after 35 years in another country in the Russian Federation there were only 280 airfields left. But why is this and what to do?

      It all started with the takeover and collapse of the world's largest airline, Aeroflot.
      Soviet Aeroflot received revenues for flights along the Trans-Siberian route, there were extremely profitable international flights, there were profitable domestic flights between large and popular cities, and there were unprofitable flights between smaller cities, and there were also unprofitable flights of small aviation. In this system, losses were compensated by income and Aeroflot did not earn much money, but it performed the main function - it ensured transport accessibility of a large country for most people and it was also a huge customer of aircraft for the aviation industry.
      Then the collapse of the USSR and the privatizers came. They needed money and not transport accessibility for incomprehensible suckers. The most delicious piece of Aeroflot, which received payments for the Trans-Siberian Railway and international flights, was snatched by those close to Yeltsin’s body, profitable flights were taken by strong regionals, and unprofitable and unprofitable flights turned out to be of no use to anyone. Nobody needed our planes either.
      And the fact that thanks to individual local patriotic leaders and sometimes the fact that some oligarchs still needed to somehow supply their fields and deliver workers to them, we have preserved the remnants of regional aviation is simply a miracle. But in fact, their demand for regional aircraft is very small and it will not ensure a stable demand for regional aircraft in the long term, and therefore things have not gone beyond exhibitions and mock-ups without government funding for 20 years, and now building an aircraft is not as easy as Chubais’ followers thought.

      So what to do? And we need to start with creating a customer who can provide the aviation industry with stable long-term orders. To do this, it is necessary to completely nationalize Aeroflot and possibly other airlines and, on their basis, to recreate one large air carrier.
      All airports must be nationalized and transferred to municipal ownership and must be maintained at the expense of revenues from Aeroflot and other airlines as well as at the expense of the local budget, and airports must be built at the expense of the local budget with the support of the federal budget. Local authorities, as well as the management of existing and under construction airports, together with Aeroflot, must plan the opening of new flights and changes in existing flights and from this form long-term plans for ordering the necessary aircraft and their characteristics.
      The aviation industry also needs to be nationalized, the example of the oligarch Deripaska, who for 20 years has been unable to give thought to the Samara aircraft plant without a state budget, proves that state ownership of the aviation industry in our country is the best way out.
      In addition, it is necessary to exclude the production of similar or similar aircraft. Why do we need a Ladoga with 44 seats if there is an IL-114 with 60 seats? It is much more profitable to produce either Il-114 or Ladoga but in a larger series.
      The same thing with the Tu-214 and MS-21. If in Kazan they resumed production of the obsolete Tu-214 as a temporary measure and at the same time prepared KAPO for the production of MS-21, this would be logical. But what will happen to KAPO and its employees when production of the Tu-214 is stopped in favor of the MS-21? Or is everything as usual and no one cares about them?
      1. +9
        3 July 2024 09: 35
        Quote: ramzay21
        The aviation industry also needs to be nationalized, the example of the oligarch Deripaska, who for 20 years has been unable to give thought to the Samara aircraft plant without a state budget, proves that state ownership of the aviation industry in our country is the best way out.

        Simple nationalization is not enough to make aircraft factories work. Well, government officials will enrich themselves by stealing allocated funds... Isn’t that so?
        Aviation operated and developed under Soviet rule. It is this power of the working people that must be returned first of all if we want to restore the country’s aviation industry. Other industries will also come to life, remove the insatiable bourgeoisie from our lives. And under capitalism, funds are allocated not for production, but straight into the pockets of their own bourgeoisie.
        1. +6
          3 July 2024 10: 49
          Simple nationalization is not enough to make aircraft factories work. Well, government officials will enrich themselves by stealing allocated funds... Isn’t that so?

          Absolutely agree! drinks
          It is also necessary to return the Criminal Code of the RSFSR with capital punishment and confiscation of property for theft on an especially large scale and also for sabotage. We also need a ban on dual citizenship and a ban on holding responsible positions for those who have family or children living abroad.

          But private business is also necessary. A successful economic model for a developing country like ours is the Chinese model, where the foundation is state-owned enterprises and complemented by private businesses. At the same time, there are strict laws to protect against theft and corruption.
          1. +3
            3 July 2024 11: 26
            But, unfortunately, both parts are impossible. The first part is “bees against honey”. And the second is the enemies of the USSR both in power and in business, for 33 years they have already proven everything about themselves with their work, what they are capable of, what they want, and nothing more will happen.
            And the trend is that at first they made everything worse than it was under the USSR, and now every year they make it even worse than it was before.
          2. +5
            3 July 2024 14: 28
            Quote: ramzay21
            But private business is also necessary.

            And Stalin adhered to this. Artel production was strangled by the bald man, putting enterprising people “in the shadows,” which provoked the flourishing of thieves’ plowing. As a result, Khrushch can be called initiator destruction of socialism in the USSR.
          3. +1
            4 July 2024 11: 16
            Quote: ramzay21
            At the same time, there are strict laws to protect against theft and corruption.

            Which, as in the USSR, apply only to representatives of those groups that lost in the struggle for supremacy in the party.
            Or does someone think that no one knew about how the mayor of Guangzhou Zhang Qi collected his 13,5 tons of gold - and suddenly the organs began to see the light? wink
            1. 0
              15 September 2024 22: 51
              That's right. Tales about the wholesale execution of corrupt officials in China are already starting to get boring
        2. +1
          4 July 2024 09: 37
          Workers' power?? Seriously?? Working people, as a rule, make good managers in production, but that’s all. But people with ambitions come to power and by default consider themselves superior to others. And, having climbed from rags to riches, they begin to fill their personal bins. For yourself and your relatives. It’s not just us, of course. But in the West, the rules of the game were formed a long time ago, so they have some rich and greedy clans balanced by other rich and greedy clans. And they inevitably watch each other and try to prevent outright lawlessness. We have multipolarity only in words - if you don’t want to lose a satisfying place, lick the one on top. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation is a prime example.
          So there is no need to tell utopian stories about the power of workers.
          1. +1
            5 July 2024 10: 11
            Quote: Jagdhund
            So there is no need to tell utopian stories about the power of workers.

            Do you offer to listen to your utopian stories about life-giving capitalism?
            Quote: Jagdhund
            But in the West, the rules of the game were formed a long time ago, so they have some rich and greedy clans balanced by other rich and greedy clans. And they inevitably watch each other and try to prevent outright lawlessness.

            And they consider everything that is against their power and their profit to be lawlessness.
      2. -1
        3 July 2024 14: 09
        Quote: ramzay21
        But why is this and what to do?

        It's too late to drink Borjomi but...! But it’s not too late to smear some brilliant green paint on the forehead of some very defective managers, even if they are no longer 37!
        1. Alf
          +1
          3 July 2024 21: 26
          Quote: vik669
          But it’s not too late to smear the forehead of some very defective managers

          What's the point? Well, he spanked the abstract Ivanov, Petrov will come in his place, they will lean against him, Sidorov will come. THE SYSTEM doesn't change...
          1. +1
            4 July 2024 12: 43
            Ivanov and Petrov and Sidorov want to live, but there are no pockets in the coffin, so this is the System!
            1. Alf
              0
              4 July 2024 19: 48
              Quote: vik669
              Ivanov and Petrov and Sidorov want to live

              So they live happily ever after, only moving from chair to chair.
              Quote: vik669
              but there are no pockets in the coffin

              That’s why they “live” to the fullest today.
    3. +5
      3 July 2024 08: 07
      unknown companies, lacking experience and history, bypass well-known and eminent ones.

      Can you clarify who beat whom?
    4. +1
      3 July 2024 14: 12
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      A curious trend of modern times, unknown companies, lacking experience and history, bypass the well-known and eminent ones.

      The main feature of the “curious trend” is the surviving island of socialism, Belarus. Aircraft repair enterprises in Belarus have not degraded, but are trying to develop into aircraft manufacturing plants. And Russia’s thieves’ capitalism is trying to squeeze at least something else out of the entire pre-existing aviation industry.
      What other example do you need to prove the dead-end degradation of the thieves' bourgeoisie?
    5. 0
      19 August 2024 12: 52
      Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
      unknown companies, lacking experience and history, bypass well-known and eminent ones.

      No one has gotten around yet. What is not clear here? Someone is supervising this topic very seriously and does not give it to anyone. No matter who starts, all attempts are in vain. It’s a good time to mention Timur Ivanov here.
  2. +7
    3 July 2024 05: 33
    > ground GDP
    ground GDP

    Hmm ...
    1. 0
      22 August 2024 16: 16
      Today, the main issue with small aircraft is up in the air because of the prices for this aircraft.
      So the cost of Baikal increased from the initial 120 million to 455 million with the prospect of up to 587 million by the start of production. And who will need such small aircraft?
      If we can’t do anything new today, what’s the problem with organizing production of the An-2 using old patterns? This is a cheap car that can be used for a long time if it is constantly modified. Install a new engine when it appears and the problem is practically solved.
  3. 23+
    3 July 2024 05: 50
    This is some kind of shame (Spanish shame) that has been going on for 35 years. With such “performers” as the Gaidars, Khristenki, Pogosyans, Medvedevs, Dvorkovichs, Manturovs, there is no need for enemies. And how many of these are now sitting in high offices...?
    1. 17+
      3 July 2024 06: 47
      In the 80s of the last century, the magazine "Automotive Industry" was published. There was an article about the prospects for the development of transport in the USSR. A commission under the Council of Ministers then came to the conclusion that in the geographical conditions of the USSR, the most promising mode of transport was aviation. Then EBN came to power with a “chubby bad boy” who had an incomprehensible relation to the name Gaidar. Well, okay, these are his grandmother's quirks. This whole liberal crowd decided that the population of Russia doesn’t care about flying on airplanes and helicopters, let them sit at home and not rock the boat. In the early 90s, this idea was promoted to the General Director of Aviastar Mikhailov by another liberal “chub” named Fedorov. Then a formal pogrom of motor and aircraft factories began by this liberal “pack of the enemy.” What the liberals managed to successfully implement was the pogrom of industry. God is not a “fraer” and the most odious liberals went “to another world” although they were not old. The whole problem with our industry is that management is not carried out by specialist engineers, but by salesmen “effective managers” with an incomprehensible education. Our president still won’t understand that the creation of the Ministry of Industry and Trade is all one and the same as the pre-revolutionary company “Naval” and Khrushchev’s “Councils of Economics”. Practice has shown that such structures are not effective. The Minister of the Ministry of Industry and Trade is simply not able to cover everything, the “ministry of everything” is the usual nonsense of “effective specialists”. A great miracle will happen if UZGA meets the deadline with the VK-800 engine, but they say that miracles do not happen in nature. Everything is sad, and an enemy invasion was not needed to throw the state back 50...70 years, liberal economists are enough, they are more terrible than any nuclear, chemical, bacteriological and weapons based on new principles. The most terrible destructive force is the technical incompetence of liberal economists.
    2. 11+
      3 July 2024 07: 23
      And how many of these are now sitting in high offices...?

      All. Opportunists. There seem to be no doers left
    3. +6
      3 July 2024 09: 15
      How many are there now? sit in high offices...?

      could there be others there?
    4. 11+
      3 July 2024 09: 44
      Quote: Sergey28
      And how many of these are now sitting in high offices...?

      Stop whining. In high offices there is no time for some kind of small aviation; they are now intensively replacing imports and ensuring technological sovereignty, and also thinking about people. In general, perestroika 2.0 and another acceleration are underway. The President just now ordered that the corpse of science be revived, and that it be as good as new, that it move and smell like roses, and not at all what corpses usually smell like. Just look, they will open some new “Rusnano” with another luminary of thought - Rogozin or Valuev - at the head. Chubais, of course, is better, but he was still ill and went to improve his health. And they were ordered to discover an unprecedented increase in prosperity - and they did! We are considered to be countries with a rich population. And life expectancy is growing at a rate of two years per year, and the production of aspirin and validol has exceeded the levels of 1918. So we have a bright future ahead of us. It's just a hell of a wait.
      1. 0
        4 July 2024 11: 10
        Dear astepanov! Without a change in the socio-economic system of Russia, we will continue to smear tears and snot on our cheeks from our problems until the “carrot plot”... While Russia is in the situation described in Krylov’s fable “Quartet”: “And you, friends, no matter how you sit down,...." By the way, I am aware that tariffs are increasing from 01.07.24/23/XNUMX. in Russia, in housing and communal services, almost XNUMX%... And here we are, “crying our hearts out” about “small aviation”....
        1. 0
          4 July 2024 12: 50
          This is how they changed “watches for pants” more than once in Russia - the result is obvious, that is, all over the face!
          You can’t erase the words from the song - “We are ours, we will build a new world; those who were nothing will become everything.”
    5. Alf
      0
      3 July 2024 21: 27
      Quote: Sergey28
      This is some kind of shame (Spanish shame) that has been going on for 35 years. With such “performers” as the Gaidars, Khristenki, Pogosyans, Medvedevs, Dvorkovichs, Manturovs, there is no need for enemies. And how many of these are now sitting in high offices...?

      And most importantly, who collects them there?
      1. +1
        4 July 2024 11: 18
        Quote: Alf
        And most importantly, who collects them there?

        Walking is slimy
        On pebbles other
        So, that is close,
        We better keep silent.
        © A.K. Tolstoy. History of the Russian state from Gostomysl to Timashev.
  4. 20+
    3 July 2024 06: 16
    UZGA not only never independently developed its own aircraft, but also did not mass-produce them, but was only engaged in assembling foreign aircraft from machine kits.

    But he reported that the LMS-901 “Baikal” will have a collective parachute rescue system. This caused wild laughter and bewilderment among the specialists. By the way, it is worth being surprised to learn about the competencies of those individuals who developed such technical specifications.

    Although workshops for the production of “Baikal” are being built in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, there is nothing to produce in them yet, because the test cycle has not been completed and the domestic engine has not been completed.

    It seems that the Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade, which spent many billions on this project, realized that things were going wrong. And I decided to entrust “Osvey” to the old man, who would definitely not fail it, despite all the efforts of our “managers”.

    A disgrace.
    1. +8
      3 July 2024 08: 07
      Quote: avia12005
      And I decided to entrust “Osvey” to my dad
      Yes, if our “defective managers” don’t interfere, then this will be a real project for the coming years!
  5. 11+
    3 July 2024 06: 22
    Can it fly on one engine?
    Make an emergency landing?

    And why RB is understandable. On a Russian scale, they don’t steal there; managers are more often (by two orders of magnitude) responsible for the consequences.
    And UZGA is a strange company, judging by its advertisements on well-known job sites, the country does not need airplanes - the salary they promise is average in the industry at best.
    It’s immediately clear from the vacancies that shells and other defense equipment are needed.
  6. +2
    3 July 2024 06: 52
    The problem with small aviation is the infrastructure - it takes a long and inconvenient time to get to the airfield!
    What’s good about the train is that the station is very often in a populated area, from which buses, taxis, etc. run intensively, and the airfield is nowhere near, you don’t know how to get there + registration is long + security checks + waiting.
    It’s an hour’s flight from Moscow to Smolensk, but it’s at least an hour to get to the airfield back and forth, the wait is 1,5 hours - why do I need these swings if I took the train and got there in 4 hours?!
    1. +6
      3 July 2024 07: 18
      The train cannot reach everywhere; aviation is needed just for such places (or over long distances)
    2. +6
      3 July 2024 07: 31
      Sergey, in my opinion, “Moscow-Smolensk” is not a good example. Can you say something about Salekhard? Or Tynda?
      1. +2
        3 July 2024 08: 15
        Yes, Moscow and the surrounding area like Smolensk is not all of Russia, but... “defective managers” graze and chop cabbage not in Salekhard or Tynda, but in Moscow and the surrounding area, so we have that and those we have with all the consequences of this...!
      2. +1
        3 July 2024 12: 41
        Will they pay with what they will pay or with subsidies?
        I know Tynda, from Svobodny it’s 4 hours by bus to Blagoveshchensk, but the story is the same - 4 hours by bus for cheap or for a good sum, 4 hours (of which only an hour in flight) by plane.... Also eggs, only in profile.
    3. +4
      3 July 2024 09: 18
      It’s an hour’s flight from Moscow to Smolensk, but it’s at least an hour to get to the airfield back and forth, the wait is 1,5 hours - why do I need these swings if I took the train and got there in 4 hours?!

      tyk Russia is not only Smolensk or the European part, the Russian Federation is Siberia and the Far East, and there are almost no roads there, and not just railways
      1. 0
        3 July 2024 12: 38
        Well, yes.
        Let's take Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk and Nogliki for example - you can go by train, you can go by plane, you can do it by car.
        Blagoveshchensk and Free Wheels, I don’t know if there are trains there
      2. 0
        6 August 2024 07: 14
        We have roads and railways in many places, but the terrain is such that walking along them is long and sad.

        A living example. Khabarovsk - Komsomolsk-on-Amur. By train 9 - 10 hours. It takes an hour and a half by EMNIP plane. Moreover, the money used to be the same as the bottom shelf of a compartment in a branded train.

        Now for some reason I can’t find any flights.
    4. +3
      3 July 2024 11: 41
      It’s an hour’s flight from Moscow to Smolensk, but it’s at least an hour to get to the airfield back and forth, the wait is 1,5 hours - why do I need these swings if I took the train and got there in 4 hours?!

      To put it mildly... not all of our compatriots live within the Moscow Ring Road. There are regions where, a priori, there are not even highways. Moreover, this is not Chukotka or Magadan, but for example the Sverdlovsk region.
      Even with trains it's not that simple. For example, the section of the railway between Chelyabinsk and Yekaterinburg is still not electrified, and in the capital of the Khanty-Mansiysk Okrug there is no railway at all.
      You can go on for a long time
      1. -1
        3 July 2024 12: 35
        Well, if there are no roads, then it’s possible, but if there is no production, then how to pay for the flight?
      2. 0
        4 July 2024 12: 54
        A steam locomotive is good, a steamboat is good, an airplane is okay, but deer are better!
      3. 0
        15 September 2024 23: 00
        The non-electrified part made me smile. The section between Volgograd and Moscow is partially non-electrified. No problem, trains run, they only change electric locomotives to diesel locomotives halfway through
    5. 0
      3 July 2024 22: 29
      75 Sergey
      You are not talking about infrastructure, but about the lack of a network of airfields. What kind of infrastructure does the rolled lawn near the village need? Or the lake of this village? Helipad? But your railway, and even a highway, cannot be laid through permafrost, taiga, and other remote and pleasant places that occupy most of the territory of our country. They will be so quiet and pleasant until aviation starts flying there. After all, she doesn’t need your roads at all.
  7. 20+
    3 July 2024 06: 59
    I like to use flytradar to climb somewhere into the Canadian or Alaskan outback and watch how it is alive with small aircraft there: dozens of propeller-driven private planes carrying people, cargo, or just to the store. What about Canada: this is the reality of our former Baltic republics - developed small aviation flying unhindered. And no one wrinkled their foreheads, bulged out laws: they just didn’t ban, didn’t interfere and didn’t get into this matter like bloodsuckers, killing customs duties.
    What to talk about new projects: the command was given to Manturov to bury Russian aviation - he bury it. What can Serdyukov do, airplanes? Yeah, he'll do it. In the 90s, a new imported helicopter in Russia cost about 100 thousand dollars, I was especially curious then. How much would it cost now? 12 times more.
    There is no need to interfere with the Belarusians. Localize production entirely in their country and let them only sell here. Then maybe it will work out. Although, who will buy??
  8. Tim
    10+
    3 July 2024 07: 02
    [/quote]In 2017, he was elected chairman of the board of directors of PJSC Rostvertol and a member of the board of PJSC United Aircraft Corporation (UAC).
    On May 8, 2019, he was elected Chairman of the Board of Directors of the UAC, under his leadership the reform of the country's aviation industry is being prepared.[quote]


    Yes, yes, this is the same ex-Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Mr. A.E. Serdyukov. Can you imagine the development of the Russian aviation industry with such a leader!!!!
    1. 0
      15 September 2024 23: 01
      And how does he stand out from the general background for the worse?
  9. +2
    3 July 2024 07: 29
    I'm actually surprised how people survive in remote areas?! Why live there at all? Moreover, such an attitude towards people. When these planes are finally launched, it may turn out that there will be no one to fly them.
    1. 0
      3 July 2024 09: 22
      I generally wonder how people survive in remote areas?
      Why live there at all?

      ?????
      But what if you find out that they not only live there, but also do not have passports, etc. from “our electronic concentration camp”?
      and the state doesn’t even know about their existence...
      you get there and look at Russia from there....
      1. 0
        3 July 2024 11: 35
        There is no desire to go there and I wish those people to get out of the bestial conditions. You need to live normally, not survive
        1. -5
          3 July 2024 11: 40
          There is no desire to go there and I wish those people bestial conditions get out. You need to live normally, not survive

          they live in houses with amenities, eat natural food, they have their own transport, both wheeled and water, copters have appeared
          you can envy them, because... they don't depend on anyone!
          1. 0
            15 September 2024 23: 04
            At the same time, the longest life expectancy is in Moscow. Because pensions are decent, a store is nearby, a clinic is in the neighborhood and a hospital is in the area. And all the stories about clean mountain air and natural food are more of a fairy tale. When a hypertensive crisis comes, a working, efficient ambulance is much more valuable than the taiga in the back of a vegetable garden.
  10. 10+
    3 July 2024 07: 56
    Quote: Sergey28
    This is some kind of shame (Spanish shame) that has been going on for 35 years. With such “performers” as the Gaidars, Khristenki, Pogosyans, Medvedevs, Dvorkovichs, Manturovs, there is no need for enemies. And how many of these are now sitting in high offices...?

    Hello. In football, if a good team begins to show poor sports results, then the head coach is fired.
    1. 0
      3 July 2024 14: 25
      But in this case, in this particular case, is the head coach to blame? What kind of specialists are these who prepare failed projects over and over again? Which fail for the same reason. They focus on a foreign engine and hope to replace it with a domestic one later.
      A turboprop engine is expensive and requires maintenance, which is why the aircraft turns out to be unreasonably expensive for regional aviation.
      You just need to return to piston engines, like on the same An-2. Install two of them in accordance with modern requirements and get what you want. Then a regional aircraft that is cheap to operate will come out. There is no need to chase fashion and progress, you need to do what is needed.
    2. +1
      3 July 2024 14: 48
      Quote: Buskan
      In football, if a good team begins to show poor sports results, then the head coach is fired.

      Where did you see our bad “head coach”? Both the coach and the team are just super. The destruction of everything they touch is successful.
  11. +5
    3 July 2024 08: 14
    There is also the matter of the essence of the head of the State. If he is afraid that one of his subordinates will show himself to be an excellent professional at work, a good organizer, and thereby gain enormous popularity among the people, if this leader is afraid of the slightest alternative to himself for the people, then he will select only worthless workers for his subordinates .
    1. +3
      3 July 2024 09: 43
      I strongly doubt that a simple change of the head of the State will change anything in the country for the better. The new one will operate using exactly the same methods. The bourgeoisie don't give a damn about the working people.
  12. -5
    3 July 2024 08: 29
    Well, a lot has not yet been finalized, a lot has been missed, but the one who walks will master the road, of course, if it would have been better before, but it’s better than nothing
    1. +4
      3 July 2024 09: 41
      Yes, yes, yes, Moses led the Jews through the desert for 40 years. And “our” government will soon be creating a desert for 40 years (6 years and a milestone), so then for another 40 years it will be mastering a road that does not exist?
  13. +7
    3 July 2024 08: 37
    As far as I understand the history of small aviation in the country, this is a blatant cut. They rob and are not even shy.
  14. -5
    3 July 2024 08: 42
    The Osvey is a high-wing aircraft with a fixed tricycle landing gear, which is a classic solution for aircraft of this class.

    This solution was “classical” in the 60s of the last century. All modern aircraft of this class have retractable landing gear.
    By the way, why reinvent the wheel once again. It’s not easier to take a ready-made aircraft, for example the Rysachok, whose certification was canceled in 2016 due to “the lack of need for aircraft of this class.” True, the engine of the "Rysachok" was Czech - Walter M601.
    1. +2
      3 July 2024 09: 25
      This solution was “classical” in the 60s of the last century. All modern aircraft of this class have retractable landing gear.

      that’s why it’s “classic” - because the landing gear does not require additional maintenance and allows you to take off and land
      1. -1
        3 July 2024 11: 12
        Have you ever heard of the semantic meaning of words?
        1. +1
          3 July 2024 11: 14
          the conversation is not about semantics, the conversation is about technology...
          remember the expression: “they hit you in the face, not in the passport...?”
          1. +1
            3 July 2024 13: 52
            the conversation is not about semantics, the conversation is about technology...

            In order to talk about technology, you need to understand it. And if the author doesn’t even understand the meaning of the words, then no conversation will happen. The author is far from both technology and understanding of the problems of small aviation. And big too. Accordingly, the article is a blow to the whistle.
            No Osvey will solve the problem of Russian small aviation. Just another verbiage, nothing more. Well, the money will be stolen.
    2. +1
      3 July 2024 22: 37
      Frettaskyrandi
      You are not right. Quite a lot of small aircraft with fixed landing gear are flying and being developed abroad. Moreover, it is more suitable for the harsh conditions of local airlines and field airfields:
      1.Unlike retractable, it does not break, is not afraid of dirt and dust
      2. More durable and forgiving of rougher takeoffs and landings, less demanding on pilot qualifications
      3.Simpler in design, weighs less, does not require additional mechanisms for cleaning and release
      4. Maintenance is limited to repairing and inflating wheels and replacing brake pads.

      Retractable landing gear only makes sense on high-speed aircraft flying from good airfields. For most small aircraft it is not needed
  15. +7
    3 July 2024 08: 54
    The appearance of Osveev in the skies of Belarus and Russia is planned no earlier than the end of 2026. Then we’ll fly fishing for “a couple of rubles” there and back.

    You won’t fly anywhere, not for a couple of rubles, not for a couple of hundred... And a couple of thousand rubles is an unbearable burden for passengers whose income barely exceeds the minimum wage.
    The author assumes (it seemed to me) that it is government subsidies that will contribute to the revival of small aviation. Yeah!!! Keep your pockets wider. Has the state program for the payment of maternity capital given much?
    In a country of capitalism and speculation, the interests of the common man are not taken into account if there is no profit from it.
    * * *
    Until the country returns to a renewed socialist path of development, one can only dream of small aviation and the settlement of depopulated territory. I'm not even talking about the domestic ISS and other undertakings that keep the electorate in constant bewilderment.
    Russian authorities should keep their people in a state of constant amazement.

    No one will give us rebirth,
    Neither God, nor the king, nor Belarus.
    Make a smart decision:
    Don't believe, don't beg and don't be cowardly!
    When meeting with superiors, it is permissible to express the pleasure one feels in this situation with polite and respectful body movements.
  16. +4
    3 July 2024 09: 51
    A small clarification: the Belarusian lake is called “Osveya” (proper noun, feminine). But for some reason the plane was named in the masculine gender, although, for example, “Ladoga” did not become known as “Ladoga”.
  17. -1
    3 July 2024 10: 08
    here's some more news, so some news:
    Neural networks created an engine, and people tested it in real life (video)

    https://hi-tech.mail.ru/news/111793-nejroseti-sozdali-dvigatel-lyudi-ispytali-ego-v-realnoj-zhizni/?frommail=ft_ml&mt_sub3=307&utm_partner_id=307
    yeah, time doesn't just fly by leaps and bounds...
  18. 0
    3 July 2024 10: 16
    We need to build on the VK650 and VK800 and their readiness. At the moment, only VK650 has been announced for Ansat and Kamov... there are no aircraft versions of them. And about the VK800 it’s generally quiet - what aircraft was it made for?
  19. +4
    3 July 2024 10: 36
    I would like to wish success to the Belarusian aircraft industry, but what do I see as the problem? In Belarus there is a higher institution of aviation, this is the Belarusian State Aviation Academy (BSAA). And there is a department of technical operation of aircraft and engines. But there is no department of aircraft and aircraft engine design. And these are two big differences. But how fashionable it is now there is a department of physical education and foreign languages. Another problem is that Belarusians are plunging into the swamp of Russian aviation, which absolutely does not want to develop national aviation. The main thing for her is the distribution of allocated state money, calculated in billions and trillions of rubles, no worse than in the Moscow Region.
    In Russia there is a research and production institute in Novosibirsk that designed and made the next generation of AN-2, but effective sawers and sociologists brush it off with their hands and feet, although the plane is excellent in all respects.
    Then they developed a good modernization of the AN-2, which the government doesn’t see at all, although the factory-workshop has been working privately for ten years, and they even made a test plane for Belarus.
    The plane successfully flies in Siberia and the Far East. About 30 of them have already been made.
    The main thing is that passengers are satisfied with ticket prices. soldier
    1. 0
      4 July 2024 00: 03
      You are right, the modernization of the An-2 into FA is very successful. But again, there is a problem with the engine, and it is not clear when we will create something like this.
  20. +3
    3 July 2024 11: 04
    Flying fishing for a couple of rubles was fun. This needs to be done by more than one denomination.
  21. +7
    3 July 2024 11: 16
    What kind of circus is going on?!
    A country where, even after the reforms, there are still specialized engineering universities, where there are some of the best engineering and aviation institutes, a country that in the second half of the twentieth century was one of the leaders in civil and military aircraft construction. The country can still fly into space - it just can’t handle the creation of a small aircraft for the regions of the Far East and Siberia!!!!
    The state is not doing this because it does not consider this task “worthy” of its level to do this, unless it is a project to allocate money for cutting. But private owners don’t do it because it doesn’t bring them any profit. Poor development, and sometimes complete absence, of infrastructure greatly hinders the development of central Russia and the Far East. And this, in turn, slows down the overall development of the country. They still can’t get the railway to Magadan. I am already silent about Sakhalin and Kamchatka, which almost live on their own. There, everything depends on aviation, but aviation is not capable of providing residents with transport accessibility throughout the region at its price.
    Let them try to start at least with the development of ground infrastructure. A road route to Magadan has long been laid (route P-504). Just develop it, cover it completely with concrete. And then run along it and wait. Over time, it will become easier for you to use this path as a branch - other, smaller paths will diverge from it. And so for many regions.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      3 July 2024 22: 40
      Mustached Kok
      There will be no railway to Magadan. She is not needed there. As for small aviation - both in Canada and in many other countries where there is wilderness, it is small aviation that solves transport problems without any railways or highways
  22. +3
    3 July 2024 12: 54
    Everything that boils around the corn plant has one basis. This is a lack of development (read absence) of the engine. I don’t really understand what the problem is in making such an engine for a country that produces 35s and 57s.
    1. +2
      3 July 2024 14: 36
      I don't understand at all

      Nobody needs it, since there are no prospects of making money on it in the foreseeable future.
      1. +1
        3 July 2024 15: 12
        Nobody needs it, since there are no prospects of making money on it in the foreseeable future.

        It seems to me that the question lies outside the “plane” of whether it is needed or not, the question lies in budget financing, apparently it is not provided
        1. Alf
          0
          3 July 2024 21: 36
          Quote: Dedok
          the question lies in budget financing, it apparently is not provided

          How much government funds were poured into SSJ or MS-21? Where are they ?
          I always remember the motto of the Soviet program “Dad, Mom, I am a sports family” - “The main thing is not victory, the main thing is participation.” So in this case, the main thing is the process, the process of “mastering”...
    2. +2
      3 July 2024 14: 40
      I already explained it a little higher. I will gladly repeat. It's all about the engine and a false understanding of progress. On small aircraft, not business jets, they persistently try to use an expensive turboprop engine, which also requires equally expensive maintenance. Due to the high cost of the engine and the complexity of its repair and maintenance, regional airfields cannot afford to have spare engines and spare parts, as well as expensive repair equipment. And the initial price of such an aircraft turns out to be unreasonably high.
      And progressives consider returning to piston engines beneath their dignity. Although they tried to adapt the engine from the Aurus car as an aircraft engine for drones.
      The picture was also spoiled by the post-war focus on air-cooled engines, which showed themselves well on military equipment and were difficult in everyday conditions in peacetime.
      1. 0
        3 July 2024 21: 35
        Yak-52 what engine?! Even the IL-2 with new metal in the armor without a bunch of electronics would be more necessary for the army. The speed of 250-900 is empty for army aviation. Shooting heat traps and electronic warfare, modern 30mm air cannons, and anti-tank guns or small NURS and that’s it. Fuel consumption would be less, I think. Nobody needs civil aviation. If state-owned companies needed it, they would order and invest. As it happened somewhere - I was in charge for 5 years, served 3 years, but the grandchildren will still have money (the latter is nonsense).
        1. 0
          3 July 2024 22: 46
          Why did you remember IL-2? He would not have lived long at the front. The destiny of such an aircraft in the modern world is wars with savages in the jungle.
          By the way, the IL-10 project with a theater engine was being developed. And a version of the Mustang with a theater of operations was made. But there was no demand for it
          1. 0
            4 July 2024 00: 53
            Yes, it’s stupid compared to the quantity of its production then and the plans for all aviation until 2030. Mass participation at the front is even more important now. And try to hit it too - the exhaust is colder, visibility is lower. And yes, Po-2 also did not live long at the front. We need to take a comprehensive look. So we fight with savages who were given guns but no brains. Motorcycles now are also not what they used to be, if anything. You need to figure out what and where and how to use it. You can also see a night hang glider on an electric motor in the sky. If you make it unmanned. And it can lift a load of 100-200 kg.
            1. +1
              4 July 2024 11: 28
              Quote: Victor Alien
              Mass participation at the front is even more important now.

              How are you going to ensure the number of pilots? Or will it be like the Germans and Japanese in the second half of WWII - cutting training in order to produce a mass of practically disposable pilots?
              Quote: Victor Alien
              And try to hit it too - the exhaust is colder, visibility is lower.

              You have a huge iron carcass with a propeller, glowing on the radar screen and on the OEC screens. At World War II speeds.
              Yes, in those days, an attack aircraft was more or less justified in a big war - when military air defense was limited to several dozen MZA per division.
              Now, at the squad level, either a 30 mm or a 14,5 mm automatic barrel can fire at a large, low-speed, low-flying target that appears above the front line.
              So this propeller-driven miracle will suffer the same fate as fire support helicopters and attack aircraft - the work of unmanned aerial vehicles from the pitching position. Or a long-range missile launcher - but then why does he need armor?
            2. +1
              4 July 2024 20: 25
              The hang glider is detected at night using night vision devices. No problem. You can hit it with an AK. And don’t consider Svidomo to be bad warriors. We haven’t been able to defeat such bad guys for over 2 years now.
        2. 0
          15 September 2024 23: 11
          In Brazil, Embraer is releasing the Super Tucano. Everything is as you like it. Even the Americans are interested. But this is a strictly patrol aircraft - to chase a guerrilla in the jungle
      2. +1
        3 July 2024 22: 44
        Sergey Aleksandrovich
        You don't know much about engines. Theater engines have long been used in small aircraft and have proven themselves well. High-pressure engines make it possible to obtain high power with low weight, having only two drawbacks - noise and higher, but not critical, fuel consumption. And by the way, they are less demanding on fuel than piston engines.
        The design of a turboprop engine is simpler than a piston engine, and its cost is quite comparable to a piston engine. This is not an engine for a fighter)))
      3. 0
        15 September 2024 23: 09
        What makes air vents difficult to use in everyday life?
        1. 0
          Yesterday, 13: 14
          Без жидкостного охлаждения двигатель работает при более высоких температурах и подвержен большему износу и имеет меньшую надежность. Двигатели воздушного охлаждения имеют преимущества лишь в условиях крайнего севера. С появлением современных антифризов и надежных уплотнений для водяных насосов нет необходимости в отказе от жидкостного охлаждения и экономии на этом.
  23. +1
    3 July 2024 16: 00
    "Belarus will help us..." lol Maybe it will help. We ourselves can no longer do anything except empty promises, such as “how many hundreds of aircraft we will have in 20...!” fool negative hi
  24. +5
    3 July 2024 16: 35
    Year after year it's the same thing
    Only circumstances will change the sails a little
    And the dialogues are repeated shamelessly
    One difference...there's a little more lying there.
    The poems weren’t mine, I just liked them and were relevant.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. -2
    3 July 2024 16: 56
    The article consists entirely of blatant lies.
    1. The L-410 has never been produced in the Russian Federation; all aircraft were built in the Czech Republic.
    2.General Electric H80-100 is actually the Czech "Walter" M601 designed and produced with the help of the USSR.
    3. The Klimov OKB has long been a corpse, so there is no one and nowhere to make the VK-800SM.
    4.UZGA is a cutting dump that has no production capacity, no personnel, no experience.
    5. Osvey is most likely a Chinese plane that will be imported through Belarus.
    1. +3
      3 July 2024 20: 40
      Go get a hangover....Not everything that is true is fiction.
    2. 0
      4 July 2024 00: 05
      Why import through Belarus? Is it getting closer? :) Well, don't write nonsense. If you don't have a brain, then it's better to shut up
  27. +1
    3 July 2024 17: 22
    I read the comments and thought that if we organize a joint airline on the basis of any
    a dying aircraft plant in Russia under the auspices of Belarus and Father Lukashenko. He will not allow you to steal and will force you to work as it should. It will attract talented designers and technologists, invite young people from our aviation institutes and be able to create an aircraft and engine in a short time. For some reason I believe in this. Instead of throwing money away, you should give it to the real owner. soldier
  28. 0
    3 July 2024 19: 45
    There is no need to invent anything. Take the An-28, tinker with the equipment a little, and stamp, stamp, stamp. Until we figure out our engine, install some Chinese ones. Restore the network of provincial airfields that have been abandoned. Re-open GPTU and technical schools for civil aviation specialists in the regions. It is possible to set a state task for the local oligarch to support the resuscitation of regional and small aviation. There is no need to be ashamed of “having a business nightmare.”
    1. 0
      3 July 2024 21: 27
      Chinese An-2s seem to still be riveting them. But we decided to follow the rules - 1 engine for no more than 8 seats plus a pilot. Just like and for some reason it is impossible to make the Il-96-300 for civil passenger aviation.
    2. 0
      3 July 2024 22: 49
      Umptek
      Where will you “get” the An-28 if it was produced only in Poland? And this plane is too big. And there are no engines for it.
      Don't mess with Chinese engines. They buy them themselves from other countries. And with the production of civil aircraft, China is completely at sea. These are not scooter phones.
      1. +1
        4 July 2024 16: 41
        If the An-28 is large, then blow off the dust and launch the An-14 with engines suitable for repair in rural workshops. And for our Arctic, Arctic, regions of the Far North, Siberia and the Far East, try to generally revive small hydroaviation, so that they can use any “puddle”. In the 30s, this is exactly where they started, with “shavrushka”.
        1. +1
          4 July 2024 20: 30
          Umptek
          Everything is too simple for you. The bee was also mainly released in Poland. Where can I get documents for a bee? Where to get engines - we don’t have them and never will, and they won’t sell them abroad. Small hydroaviation - first pass normal laws, and make pepelats accessible not only to pot-bellied moneybags
  29. +2
    3 July 2024 21: 24
    You need a piston engine for automobile gasoline. Why complicate things?! The engine from Aurus is heavier, but it won’t pay for itself any other way. Just like on the Tiger base, they cannot make a simple cabover truck for civil transport. Shishiga of the new generation. With automatic transmission it will last for years. It seems that little by little they are starting to install domestic automatic transmissions on PAZ buses. "Narrow-eyed" domestic engineers. There are a lot of product options that can’t get in the way in the right place.
    1. 0
      15 September 2024 23: 18
      Where to get an automatic transmission? P.S. This is positively interesting. Whatever you take - you have nothing (c)
      1. +1
        Yesterday, 08: 54
        Пазики вроде с АКПП уже пошли в продажу. Инфа попадалась. И в чем проблема ЗФ что теперь КПП Камаз обозвали приспособить ?! Да есть у нас все - идиотам надо КПП дешевле само по себе, забывая про удобство водителю что в городе что на болоте (тут уметь надо), что замена сцепления в разы чаще и дороже чем замена масла в АКПП. По ищите инфу про постройку электростанции под Москвой в журнале Грузовик Пресс при помощи китайских полноприводных грузовиков и эксперимент с грузовиком с АКПП в тяжелых условиях.
  30. 0
    3 July 2024 22: 10
    All these Osveys are chatter and projection, and an empty waste of money. Local aviation, including GA, needs Piper and Cessn class aircraft. That is, very small and light. We don’t have such people and don’t expect them to. Despite the fact that there are companies in the country that have developed and produce quite decent small aircraft in single copies. But you can’t fly them almost anywhere - our legislation doesn’t allow it. In the production of these pepelats, expensive imported components were used, which previously, after all customs clearance and all sorts of fees, cost 5-10 times more than where they were purchased. Purchasing the same Cessnas is not an option. There are stories that a 50-year-old Cessna, bought in the USA at the price of an old Zhiguli car, after delivery and all payments in Russia, became more expensive than a new Mercedes.
    In our country there is not and is not expected to be any production of anything that is really necessary for the development of small aviation. There are no and never will be engines for small planes and helicopters. Small aviation in our country remains a pastime for very rich people who are already bored with their Porsches and Bentleys.
    When the last direct line with the President passed, I wrote an appeal about the urgent need for the development of small aviation in Russia. As one would expect, it turned out to be safely ignored by the well-wishers - “helpers”. The problems of grandmothers and single mothers with many children are more important. No, I have nothing against them, but there are also strategic interests of the countries. And how can the same grandmother get from a distant village to a regional city 300 km away, somewhere in the outback, in the absence of roads and transport? None of our officials and deputies need this, therefore such articles are a voice crying in the wilderness.
    There is another reason why small and private aviation will be completely buried in our country. There's a lot of shouting, fussing and fussing about drones these days. There are no particular problems in converting small aircraft into drones. They won’t ban it, but the legislation will be complicated so much that it will be impossible to even start the engine.
    1. +1
      4 July 2024 21: 31
      I’m curious, who downvoted it, and why? Does it really hurt your eyes? A? Minuser, can you write your opinion?
      1. Owl
        0
        4 July 2024 22: 27
        AN-2 and other aircraft used to fly, do you want to replace them with private aviation?
        1. +1
          4 July 2024 22: 49
          General aviation is not necessarily private. In general, this is small and local aviation. By the way, the An-2 is too big and a voracious pepelats for small aircraft. It needs to be smaller and more economical. From 4 to 10 places. Abroad, this class of aviation is very developed, and most of the transportation in the “wilderness” is carried out by just such aircraft. By the way, seaplanes are also in great demand. An-2 and An-3 and their clones do not need to be produced, and there are no engines for them, including theater engines. By the way, if a decision is made to develop GA in our country, which I find hard to believe, then we will immediately run into the problem of a lack of engines.
          By the way, about private owners. What do you have against private carriers? Most of the very local airlines in bear corners are completely in private hands. Sometimes the transportation is carried out by a pilot on his personal plane. And everyone is happy with it. Large and even medium-sized airlines are not interested in this business at all
          1. Owl
            0
            4 July 2024 23: 05
            AN, this is a product of the 40s, for regional air services - only state-owned companies, otherwise - savings, plane crashes and no one to blame. I am not for a police state, but only fear for what has been done is the best talisman against crime.
            1. 0
              15 September 2024 23: 23
              I wonder how they manage in Canada and the States without state-owned companies?
    2. 0
      15 September 2024 23: 21
      I watched a video with a piper. An amazingly unpretentious plane. And their price is like a middle-class car
  31. Owl
    0
    4 July 2024 22: 24
    As always, the main problem is the engine.
    1. +1
      4 July 2024 22: 51
      In our country - yes. After our legislation
      1. Owl
        0
        5 July 2024 09: 10
        And legislators who are sensitive to criticism...
        1. 0
          5 July 2024 11: 31
          Legislators don't care. If only they get fame (and money), but you can’t earn fame from local aviation
  32. +1
    25 July 2024 10: 00
    Quote: futurohunter
    The design of a turboprop engine is simpler than a piston engine, and its cost is quite comparable to a piston engine. This is not an engine for a fighter)))

    What are you smoking at your place?
    The main problems of gas turbine engines:
    -high temperature in the CS;
    - high shaft speeds, which requires the use of a complex and expensive gearbox;
    - high speeds do not allow the use of relatively large diameter propellers, hence the thrust drops and the efficiency of the propulsion system and the propulsion factor deteriorates.
    -GTE has low throttle response, which is critical when flying at low altitudes;
    -high cost of production and operation;
    - the need for specially trained personnel - even a schoolchild can repair an internal combustion engine.
    By the way, the specific fuel consumption of gas turbine engines and internal combustion engines is approximately the same - live with it now :)
    1. -1
      15 September 2024 23: 25
      The planes with the largest propellers - the An-22 and Tu-95 - are looking at your comment with interest
    2. 0
      Yesterday, 10: 08
      В 70-х - 80-х годах автостроители экспериментировали с ГТД на авто. Есть фото американского тягача на трассе, на котором снято оперение и он выглядит так, как будто двигателя вообще нет - настолько ГТД компактнее. В 90-х предполагали, что ГТД на авто позволит избавиться от системы охлаждения. Основная проблема - ГТД крайне неэкономичен на переходных режимах. Вольво в свое время выдвинула идею использования ГТД как генератора в связке с электромоторами, но развития она не получила
      1. 0
        Yesterday, 14: 42
        Sumotori_380
        Есть много причин, почему ГТД прижидись на самолётах и не прижились на авто. Во-первых шум - самолёты летают высоко, и их не так слышно. А представьте, как мимо Вашего дома каждый день реактивные истребители на бреющем будут пролетать. Во-вторых, приемистость. Движение любого автомобиля состоит из частых разгонов и торможений, в отличие от самолетов. На этих режимах любой ГТД уступит поршневикам. Насчет системы охлаждения - там надо куда девать довольно высокотемпературный выхлоп. Даже, если Вы будете его отводите вверх, в некоторых ситуациях Ваш авто может что-нибудь поджечь. Либо Вам нужно делать сложные системы охлаждения, многоступенчатые турбины и пр., т.е. двигатель усложняется и утяжеляется и теряет свои преимущества.
        ГТД в связке с генераторами используется в компактных газотурбинных электростанциях, на боевых корабля - там эта связка очень эффективна. Конструкция получается тяжелая, но для электростанции или корабля это не так критично, как для автомобиля, а электротрансмиссия позволяет как раз дрстичь приемистости - электродвигу нет равных по приемистости.
        Короче, каждому - своё, и каждый тип двигателя занял свою нишу, для которой он лучше всего подходит
    3. 0
      Yesterday, 14: 31
      Dozorny severa
      Отвечу: любой авиационный двигатель требует хорошего месталла и высокой культуры производства. Кустарный сделанный ПД пробегает недолго, а кустарно сделанный ГТД - вообще нонсенс.
      Про редуктор - некоторым ПД он тоже не помешает. А в чём сложность и дороговизна? Это ж не коробка передач? Зачем приемистость? Истребитель делаете? Или пилотажный самолет (на них тоже ТВД иногда используют, кстати)? Авиационное производство вообще требовательнее и дороже, если конечно, не "трубко-тряпколеты" делаете. К летательным аппаратам вообще нельзя допускать никакие "очумелые ручки", тем более, школьников. Насчет удельного расхода - не уверен. У 4-тактников - существенно ниже, но они сложнее, дороже и тяжелее, а у двухтактников - может быть, и как у ТВД, еще и масло жрут. И керосин вообще, дешевле бензина laughing So everything is relative.
      Короче... ТВД широко применяются в малой авиации на Западе - меня самого удивило, когда я узнал, сколько существует малых самолётов с ТВД. Короче, и ПД, и ТВД имеют право на жизнь в малой аваиции. А вот ТРД - уже избыточен, а ПуВРД, ПРД, ЖРД и прочие Ванкели и Стирлинги - исключительно для любителей экзотики
  33. 0
    6 August 2024 07: 21
    VK-800 is the main hope of domestic small aviation


    The entire history of the domestic automobile industry in one phrase: “Now we’ll finish this engine...”