The military had a claim to the new form

287
Military uniform continues to be in the focus of the Russian media. The passions of Digit, which had been introduced into the army under the former Minister of Defense of Russia Anatoly Serdyukov, did not have time to calm down, as information about the claims to the new field uniform appeared “from Shoigu”. The experts of the Public Chamber of Russia processed the reviews of soldiers on the new military uniform, approved by Sergei Shoigu. The report, which was presented by the Public Chamber to the country's Deputy Minister of Defense Ruslan Tsalikov, lists the main complaints about the “Concept” - the use of synthetic fabrics that do not “breathe”, lightning and velcro clogging quickly with dirt, and underwear on the lower back. Re-equipping the army with a new form should end by the end of 2015 of the year.

A survey of Russian army servicemen was conducted by 200 experts, who visited military units throughout Russia. Alexander Kanshin, head of the OP commission on national security issues, told this publication to RBC daily. Criticized the military and the existing form, the so-called "figure." It is mainly criticized for fabrics that fade very quickly and tearing threads. In addition, it suddenly turned out that the soldiers were opposed to the abolition of the footcloths, which had recently been ordered to forget the new Russian defense minister. However, the soldiers believe that the socks are impractical and rub their feet. First of all, those soldiers serving in the northern regions of Russia spoke of the need to return the sisters. Currently, soldiers are scheduled to issue pairs of socks for 20 annually, but their quality, as noted by respondents, is low.

Many people express their concern that the new form, the so-called “concept”, is made of synthetic fabric, but here, most likely, it is a question of insufficient awareness of people who believe that the use of blended fabrics with cotton content in 65% and synthetics in 35% does not allow the skin to "breathe." Also, the soldiers believe that quickly failing Velcro and lightning must be duplicated with buttons. There are military claims to the pockets. They were in 1,5 times less than required - according to the military, the creators of the new form simply saved on the material. At the same time, experts paid attention to small pockets at the stage of form presentation. The interviewed servicemen also turned their attention to the fact that due to the lack of suspenders and a belt, the underwear could become bullying, which is why the waist is frozen. In general, both soldiers and their parents approve of the transition to a new form.
The military had a claim to the new form

The soldiers, who have already taken part in the tests of the new field uniform, offer to return the boots to the army, since it is impossible to fight in berets in deep snow or marshland. Appeared in the military claims and balaclavla, mainly due to the lack of slots for the mouth. When breathing, moisture accumulates in this place, which at minus temperatures on the street can cause frostbite of the serviceman, and most importantly, the poor soldier does not even have the opportunity to spit.

The Russian Ministry of Defense is still opposed to the sisters, but the Public Chamber calls for a compromise. And if the majority of complaints about the new form of the Ministry of Defense reacted very calmly, then the reviews in favor of the return of the footcloths to the military department clearly did not like. Soldiers in the survey talked about the impracticality of socks, which will have to issue pairs of 20 per year, as well as knock down legs. However, in January, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu ordered to completely rid the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation from such a historical relic, like foot wraps, which are used in the army, starting with 1812. Then the minister urged everyone to "think in other categories."

Supports the Minister of Defense and his deputy - Ruslan Tsalikov. According to him, footcloths "look like an anachronism" and socks logically come to replace them. However, members of the Public Chamber, engaged in interviewing military personnel, suggest that the Russian Defense Ministry should compromise on the use of footcloths and socks in military units at the same time.

It is currently unknown whether it is planned to refine the new form, taking into account the comments received. New units in the army are planning to get in stages from 2013 to 2015 year. In the 2013 year - 100 000 kits, in 2013 - 400 000 and 500 000 - until the end of the 2015 year. The new form will be purchased in the framework of the state defense order, and its manufacture, as previously reported, will be handled by the company BTK Group, which is owned by Teimurah Bolloev, the former head of Olympstroy.

The new field uniform, called the “Concept”, has been developed for several years and should have replaced the “Digit”, which many have associated with the name of the famous fashion designer Yudashkin before the official denial by the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office of the country. Experts noted that the new field uniform somehow reminds them of the American ACU - Army Combat Uniform, without seeing anything bad in borrowing good ideas. The main difference of the new form is the “eight layers” principle implemented in it - from underwear to a jacket. It is possible to change the form complete set depending on weather conditions and tasks solved by combat units. The military had already come up with a new form of a rather ironic name, nicknamed it “cabbage”.

Despite all the voiced remarks, the current military uniform, which is already used in the army, is even more criticized by the military. The so-called “Digit” was introduced into the army in 2010 by order of former Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov, who lost his post due to a major corruption scandal in the armed forces. The servicemen point to the poor quality of the materials used in this form, which are constantly being torn.

Sergey Krivenko, the coordinator of the public initiative “Citizen and the Army”, told journalists that the military had the most complaints to the winter uniform. First of all, we are talking about its functionality. The existing winter form is blown out and keeps heat poorly. The expert notes that, most likely, this is due to corruption errors or marriage, which was incorporated into it. This form was called the “Yudashkin form” for a long time, but this is not at all the case. According to him, initially the design features of the current "Figures" were laid completely different - it used different materials and insulation, than those that turned out at the output and cause many questions today.

At the same time, the expert noted that there are only positive opinions about the existing summer form - it is not hot in summer, it keeps cool well. So the opinions about the "Digit" can be called diametrically opposed. According to Krivenko, the Prosecutor's Office should understand what happened. If we consider that it was spent on order 25 billion rubles to re-equip the army with “Tsifroy”, it would be very out of place to figure out who, what and how produced.

In due time, in connection with the frequent outbreaks of ARVI in the troops and the incoming complaints about the uniform, the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office (PRT) conducted a large-scale check. GWP was found that at the first stage, the sketches and prototypes were actually produced by LLC Valentin Yudashkin. But then the officials of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, without the consent of the developer, made in the form of "significant structural changes." Since after these changes, the new form was significantly different from the previous one, the army leadership should have conveyed to the troops the “rules of its application”, but the officials did not. In addition to this, violations were also found in the clothing industry, where they sewed the "Digit".

Information sources:
-http: //lenta.ru/news/2013/02/20/equipment
-http: //finam.info/news/voennie-raskritikovali-novuyu-formu
-http: //www.newsru.com/russia/20feb2013/forma.html
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  1. Fox
    +13
    21 February 2013 07: 59
    this was to be expected. now there is an opportunity to "use" any form and equipment. and without any expenses on the part of the MO. these are airsoft players. you can laugh, but the obstacle courses are not inferior to the army ones. the conditions are sometimes more poorer. Belarusian BUTEX (footwear) does not hesitate to ask airsoft players' opinion of their models and, according to tests, introduces amendments to their models. "Specialists" in the development of the form just look around them and turn on their heads: WHY is this or that element on the form.
    1. Piterkras
      +6
      21 February 2013 10: 56
      Airsoft players and servicemen in the Army are completely different things. It’s like a professional gamer in CS and a professional sniper from BB special forces. Airsoft players play war games, and in the Army they deal with it directly. It is foolish to compare theory and practice.
      1. +18
        21 February 2013 11: 41
        In the comments of the Fox, in fact, there is some truth! At least for the practical nuances of the form. After all, its developers do check it at stands and various mechanisms (for rupture, rubbing, etc.). And then real running, crawling, jumping, etc. even with a "toy" weapon.
        Yes, and by analogy with a sniper and a gamer ... So, a multiple world champion in rally-games, some kind of gamer there, I don't remember his full name, now he is racing real rally cars at the professional level, and he pretends to the podium, and he does not he was engaged in karting all his life, like all participants of the rally! HE JUST PLAYED RACES ... Plus, F1 pilots devote a lot of time to "toys" on PLAYSTATION and other gaming platforms. They are cut for days in order to better remember the route, because in games it is identical to the real one, and even in the age of our technologies, the behavior of a virtual car is akin to the real one ...
        Well, I won’t even talk about training pilots on simulators ...
        Although I agree, without PRACTICE, nowhere !!!!!!!
        laughing
      2. Fox
        +7
        21 February 2013 12: 58
        Quote: piterkras
        Airsoft players and employees in the Army - these are completely different things

        I agree to all 100. the guys who came from the army say that they learned and learned more in airsoft than in the army. We, the trainers, ran enough with the weapons themselves. And as an indicator-team, in which there are several contractors. they also have played enough?
        1. +7
          21 February 2013 13: 34
          Quote: Fox
          I agree to all 100. the guys who came from the army say that they learned and learned more in airsoft than in the army. We, the trainers, ran enough with the weapons themselves. And as an indicator-team, in which there are several contractors. they also have played enough?

          Dangerous fallacy. Normal people to study always and everywhere, this is just normal. But do not confuse people who put on a uniform for several days, with a fighter who lives in uniform for months and years. These are fundamentally different things.
          1. 0
            21 February 2013 18: 30
            where have you seen years?
            1. Zynaps
              +5
              22 February 2013 03: 24
              my father served as an ordinary soldier in anti-tank artillery from 1945 to 1953. only 8 years old. my school friend had the same father, only a sniper in the infantry. these people could safely wipe the airsoft team in terms of mastering military affairs in the present way.

              for some reason I have confidence that even such a middle-aged man like me, who served only 2 years urgent in the Soviet Army almost 30 years ago, in which case the nose of these terrible airsoft players in the morning. especially in terms of real knowledge of tactics and everything that soldiers usually study and not at all learn from airsoft players.
              1. VARCHUN
                0
                21 October 2013 09: 44
                I agree, but not completely, I myself served in the Ukrainian army 93-95 in air defense, but if there were sensible tactics and specialists as in many strike teams, it would be much better. Now Ukraine has completely switched to a contract, it can now be taken seriously.
        2. +5
          21 February 2013 15: 41
          guys from the army say they learned and learned more in airsoft than they did in the army

          Did the "new airsoft players" serve in the construction battalion?
          I remember once we stopped at the exercises in the forest near the construction part, that's all !!!! took turns rushing to our car to take a picture with a gun in a demobilization album belay . And when we began to deploy special equipment, the construction battalion simply sat, looked and cried with envy. crying

          And about the uniform - in addition to the obstacle course, you still have to take it off for a year - and the outfits, and on guard, and in the car. And this is a slightly different song.
        3. +2
          21 February 2013 18: 33
          Quote: Fox
          they learned and learned more in airsoft than in the army

          Only in the army are real bullets ...
      3. Klimentij
        +1
        21 February 2013 18: 57
        Quote: piterkras
        Airsoft players play war games, and in the Army they deal with it directly. It is foolish to compare theory and practice.


        here I do not agree with you, airsoft players are testing uniforms and equipment on a par with the military. By the way, many security officials are keen on strikes and even train with airsoft weapons.
        1. Zynaps
          +10
          22 February 2013 03: 26
          are airsoft players testing their uniforms and equipment, having been in the fields for weeks, in the mountains, in the swamp? they make many kilometers of march, they are hunted by helicopters and with the help of search dogs? where do you get such grass? Well, or under what kind of buzz did such airsoft players see?
          1. AndreyAB
            +7
            22 February 2013 05: 40
            Of course, I'm sorry, but why are you attached to airsoft players? That this is the last instance - the Russian Armed Forces have been fighting for many years since the Great War and in various "local conflicts", that state institutions are obliged to systematize and produce the appropriate form, they have been eating their bread in vain judging by the number of new forms since the 90s, and after all all the same, this is a priority of the state and it is necessary to reform these dormaedists first, then a practical and convenient form will appear.
      4. Felix200970
        +3
        22 February 2013 20: 40
        Quote: piterkras
        Airsoft players and servicemen in the Army are completely different things.

        Both are played in war games, only the army can move from training to international competitions. A yuzan form that those that do not differ in other conditions. There is nothing to talk about. I expressed my comments on the form in a previous article. All of them were confirmed. The presence of suspenders leads to exposure of the back. Balaclava without an opening for the mouth leads to frostbite. The presence of locks on underwear and the absence of footcloths. Lingerie should be in any case from natural fabrics. To get rid of footcloths you need to have high-quality shoes under the toe. Yes, and socks need to be taught to wear correctly. Paradox: the field form for the Armed Forces of Ukraine was developed in the USSR in 1979. And for the conditions of Ukraine, it is 100% suitable
      5. +2
        23 February 2013 06: 27
        Strange form! I figured it out for myself and thought that if I put it into the autonomous system for a week in this form, then even there’s no way to put any trifle! And this is a serious minus! The Soviet one was scolded precisely because of this. All these unloadings are good, but if it turned out so that they are not! There’s nowhere to put a horn!
    2. Reindeer herder
      +14
      21 February 2013 12: 49
      Buteks promoted brand, in certain circles, but also not ice. Garsings are more expensive, but more convenient. I myself keep a store of tourist and hunting clothes and equipment. The most amazing thing is that there are many RUSSIAN companies that sew comfortable, and at the same time, inexpensive clothes. Here with Russian shoes is an exorbitant or exorbitant price or no quality. Specials are bought from me, they can take non-statutory things, unlike ordinary parts. Since he is a pensioner, I take off the boys to the cost price, especially since they do not get out of business trips. They take only American shoes, monstrously expensive, but convenient and practical. Termuhu and we have a good sew.
      1. +6
        21 February 2013 14: 21
        The Main Military Prosecutor's Office (GWP) conducted a large-scale audit.


        That's where the "dog is buried" - they steal. Moreover, it is not Yudashkin who steals (at least he understands the materials, because his profession), but "fathers-commanders." And the pockets are smaller, so that on the hundredth pocket, to save a decemeter of fabric ... and the threads are rotten, and the matter is not the same, and footcloths are relevant, because the shoes are fig ... Everything is like under Peter I.
        I am glad that at least something has budged.
        1. +1
          21 February 2013 23: 57
          What can I say. At one time, one general was tried, and for ordering bulletproof vests from his company (man and law). These bulletproof vests were then sent to the army during the Chechen campaign in Chechnya. By quality they were like paper. I don’t know him a term or not. here he is .....
          1. +3
            22 February 2013 00: 55
            Bulletproof vests in the troops did not have time to put. In quality, their fabric screens were expired. Condemned.
          2. 0
            22 February 2013 11: 31
            He ordered for the Strategic Missile Forces. Therefore, he was sure that they would not get caught!
        2. 0
          17 March 2013 15: 17
          In Russia, at least some form exists. Good or bad is the third question. But in Ukraine we have nothing at all. I have been buying a uniform for 5 years in the market. sad
      2. phantom359
        0
        23 February 2013 00: 43
        Reindeer herder, German will be better. Bundes 2000-2005 great shoes for all occasions. I checked on myself. Combats, deserts and jungles are also nothing, but worse than the Germans.
    3. +3
      21 February 2013 14: 14
      Rumor has it that airsoft in Japan was born. Due to political restrictions on the Armed Forces and the desire to train fighters ...
      1. +8
        21 February 2013 20: 17
        dmitreach hi

        As a fan of airsoft, some of the comments above about airsoft made me smile Yes .

        concerning :

        Quote: dmitreach
        Rumor has it that airsoft in Japan was born.


        Paradoxically, the homeland of airsoft is Japan. After the end of World War II, this country was not able to create an army and a full-fledged fleet. But, like any country, it needed defensive forces to protect its territories. It was necessary to carry out some maneuvers and maintain the illusion of national defense. Japanese firms created absolute copies of firearms, which used not real cartridges, but 6 mm plastic balls. At the heart of such weapons lay a pneumatic system. However, copies of small arms visually did not differ from a firearm, even their weight.
        Later this practice began to be applied in the USA. ...



        1. +4
          21 February 2013 20: 33
          On April 14, 2012, South Ural airsoft players opened a new game season.

        2. +2
          21 February 2013 21: 14
          Karlsonn, sorry ballistics is different. But the sport is excellent! This year I planned to get carried away. (wild tourism is close to me)
          amazing photo!
          And you can add that among the airsoft players there are the military. Nothing human is alien to them.
          1. +6
            22 February 2013 00: 16
            Quote: dmitreach
            Karlsonn, sorry ballistics is different.


            Yes, airsoft is a game, but the weapon weighs the same as the real one, without ammunition, the average combat distance is 40 meters, though there are grenade launchers, mortars, mines, machine guns and snipers that push this border, but despite it is airsoft players who prefer either urban or forest combat, where the contact line just falls into this segment.
            We train more often than the real military, but for the materiel and those. We are better off.
            If you are going to airsoft - get ready to pay !!!
            Now, personally, I am a "damned Brit" in the DPM, with M-4, 140-m.
            I am going to Russia to open the 2014 season of the year, in connection with this I have acquired:
            - Set of field equipment SMERSH MOLSE

            -


            - Summer camouflage inverted suit "PARTIZAN"
        3. +1
          21 February 2013 21: 22
          Quote: Karlsonn
          Paradoxically, the homeland of airsoft is Japan. After the end of World War II, this country was not able to create an army and a full-fledged fleet. But, like any country, it needed defensive forces to protect its territories. It was necessary to carry out some maneuvers and maintain the illusion of national defense.


          Cool legend. Yes, that's just the self-defense forces of Japan appeared in 1954. And long before the appearance of airsoft, in 1979 they had 800 tanks. And you are talking about some kind of illusions and about some kind of plastic balls.
          1. +3
            22 February 2013 00: 02
            Lopatov tongue

            Quote: Spade
            Cool legend. Yes, that's just the self-defense forces of Japan appeared in 1954. And long before the appearance of airsoft, in 1979 they had 800 tanks. And you are talking about some kind of illusions and about some kind of plastic balls.


            with all due respect, you are a layman, not versed in the issue, - "theorist of kung fu" bully


            Quote: Spade
            And you are talking about some kind of illusions and about some kind of plastic balls.


            illusions? laughing in Kiev we have teams fully equipped as elite units of the US armed forces, soldier give them only trunks and cartridges with magazines, well, even plug-in plates in bullet-proof vests - and they will tax in minus any unit of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the Ministry of Internal Affairs. NVD, communications, sights, tactical lights, LOC, headsets, uniforms, etc. etc. these teams are exactly the same as the amers specials soldier . Such teams are trained as a rule once or twice a week, regular visits to shooting ranges are made, where for a little money in Ukraine you can shoot from everything, including KPVT and RPG-7.
            One of the people who is constantly the organizer of the games in Kiev, the man who fought in Afghanistan, the captain, scout, has combat! awards. And there are many.
            At one of the games at the end of the 2011 season in Kiev (Airborne Forces Day), out of 400 people - almost 80 served in the USSR Airborne Forces, a dozen "Afghans" - tell them about the illusion.
            And by the way, the contingent of those who play airsoft, airsoft, hardball in Ukraine consists of about 27-30% of those who served in the USSR Armed Forces, officers are not uncommon, armored vehicles are present at the opening and closing of the season, and also at fairly large games.
            I especially want to note the KGB BR drinks soldier good
            - Thank you for organizing the game in Brest! Everything, absolutely everything was at the highest level !!! Yes
            1. +4
              22 February 2013 00: 39
              airsoft players are versed in uniform, equipment, tech. providing worse than the special forces of any country, in order to solve the issue in form, the Russian government would need to ask airsoft players, --- not because we are cooler than those who are now risking their lives protecting us, but because the airsoft players are enthusiastic, spent money, time and practice to learn more than anyone. It’s debatable, I agree, but I’m ready to argue with anyone --- my boots are a worn-out hike worn by the US paratroopers, I don’t change socks from + 30 to minus 15 for a week, knocked down legs, smelly socks? what are you speaking about? cross the river? - dry feet laughing , gloves - mechanic, ballistic glasses revision, single-point belt, AKOG sight with integrated collimator and so on.
              all clothing and uniforms were bought in England from army depots.

              this is for the airseller - - - fearful - slaughter !!!
              [media = http: http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = 7zhtgdGFs3c]
              1. +3
                22 February 2013 01: 03
                Do the real airsoft players have bets? If to imitate, then in full.
                1. +3
                  22 February 2013 01: 18
                  Quote: Spade

                  Do the real airsoft players have bets? If to imitate, then in full.


                  armored vehicles, we stupidly rent, with the current corruption and all permissibility, we stupidly use military equipment.
                  1. +5
                    22 February 2013 01: 31
                    Beters are not related to armored vehicles. This thing is much worse.

                    You see, in this one there is already a huge difference between reality and imitation. Here, for example, is a winter tank helmet bad? The fact that it is very difficult to deduce beters from it. Airsoft players are unlikely to know. As they do not know the advantages of a fully synthetic sleeping bag over mixed ones, these insects do not like him.

                    In fact, everything is much more complicated than it seems to airsoft players.
                    1. +1
                      22 February 2013 02: 02
                      Quote: Spade
                      Beters are not related to armored vehicles. This thing is much worse.


                      tanks are considered?


                      Quote: Spade
                      Here, for example, is a winter tank helmet bad? The fact that it is very difficult to deduce beters from it.


                      Quote: Spade
                      Airsoft players are unlikely to know. As they do not know the advantages of a fully synthetic sleeping bag over mixed ones, these insects do not like him.


                      do not disgrace!
                      I bought my AKOG from a "demobilizer" from Afgan, a real telescopic sight, about sleeping bags - you, layman, tell me the most successful military tent in the last 10 years, tell me the models of patrol backpacks that will be adopted in the US armies and the UK next year ...


                      Quote: Spade
                      In fact, everything is much more complicated than it seems to airsoft players.


                      Oh really?
                      1. +2
                        22 February 2013 02: 20
                        Damn, are you really reading other people's posts? Bether is an insect. Louse, companion of any war. Welcome to reality.

                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        I bought my AKOG from a "demobilizer" from Afgan, a real optical sight,

                        ?

                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        about sleeping bags - you, the layman make me laugh

                        Well, show your exceptional wisdom. There are two sleeping bags, synthetic and mixed. In the first, lice are very rare, but if wound up, then you can get rid of them only with chemistry. In the second, they start up much more often. However, it can be fried in DDashka
                        That a connoisseur of airsoft in this regard will decide which is better, say your weighty word of a real neprofan.


                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        Oh really?

                        That's it!
                      2. -6
                        22 February 2013 02: 49
                        Quote: Spade
                        Damn, are you really reading other people's posts? Bether is an insect. Louse, companion of any war. Welcome to reality.


                        laughing


                        Quote: Spade
                        ?


                        bought from an American soldier through no.


                        Quote: Spade
                        That a connoisseur of airsoft in this regard will decide which is better, say your weighty word of a real neprofan.


                        once again: what patrol pack will go to the US and British troops at the end of this year, what will be the uniform in the US army?
                        - I know Yes .


                        Quote: Spade
                        That's it!


                        Did you wear the boots that the US marines now wear? Have an opinion about them?
                        - I wore it, I didn’t like it, the belleville taxis in the minuses for the Amerian airborne assault.

                        What can you say about the tactical unloading system of a scout adopted in the US Army? Did you wear it? Do you know what it is?
                        Why is it not convenient - you know?

                        When a layman is writhing, he’s more than funny. hi
                      3. +2
                        22 February 2013 02: 54
                        Well here again. A specific question and there is no answer. Once again, which of the two possible sleeping bags is better? Given the existence of such a nuance as the Bets?

                        Will the answer be?

                        And by the way, louse is not funny.
                      4. HIGHLANDER
                        +3
                        22 February 2013 07: 24
                        the employee knows about the bathers, but this comrade didn’t serve), but you cannot argue with him in form, since he really knows what is bad and what is good for airsoft.
                      5. phantom359
                        +3
                        23 February 2013 00: 53
                        Lopatov, Calm down guys. Your dispute is about nothing. And you in vain run into airsoft players. These are people who are keen on military history and love active rest. And their shape matches in the smallest detail. The one who is not dressed as it should be according to the charter of the army, the uniform of which he wears is called Pokémon. I don’t play myself, but many friends indulge in it and believe me, it’s not a schoolboy. And the ability to "punch" the shape they get is no worse than in the linear parts.
                      6. walter_rus
                        +3
                        22 February 2013 23: 58
                        Of course, airsoft is a cool sport, but still the troops have gained more experience wearing uniforms, even a simple example, after the Second World War they switched from a tunic worn over the head to a button-down tunic - to quickly take it off when splashed with burning napalm. For the same purpose, artificial materials are not used in the outfit of pilots - so that burning synthetics do not flow by the collar. Of course, it is necessary to study the foreign form. And most importantly, those on whom the decision depends, think about how this form will actually be worn, and not about how to cut finances. And then they are trying to come up with some new form in one fell swoop without taking into account the already accumulated vast experience. Just a shoulder strap on his chest, dangling as it is not clear what is worth. Was it really impossible to come up with something more decent, or was there just a desire to distinguish yourself?
                      7. -1
                        23 February 2013 02: 31
                        Quote: walter_rus
                        but still, the army has gained more experience in wearing uniforms,


                        at the moment, can I afford financially what the lieutenant colonel will not be able to continue the argument?
                      8. walter_rus
                        +2
                        23 February 2013 14: 31
                        Yes, I don’t argue with you. Of course, you understand airsoft better, but I served in the army for 23 years, now I am retired safely. It is one thing to purchase several sets of cool equipment for a small team, another thing is to establish their mass production in their own country. Of course, it would be nice if the army held classes at the level of your airsoft games, but for this you need the desire of the appropriate bosses and appropriate funding. But all the same, the fact remains that only war gives real experience in terms of tactics, weapons, supplies, including uniforms. The whole question is who uses it how. And to whom the war did not serve as science, no airsoft will help. Many of our military leaders are just like that.
                      9. +1
                        23 February 2013 23: 44
                        Quote: walter_rus
                        Yes, I don’t argue with you. Of course, you understand airsoft better, but I served in the 23 Army of the year, now I am retired safely.


                        dispute over what? I simply affirm that airsoft is an expensive hobby and we airsoft players have a better understanding of uniforms and equipment than military personnel, and we can help in this matter. share knowledge.


                        Quote: walter_rus
                        It is one thing to purchase several sets of cool equipment for a small team, another thing is to establish their mass production in their own country.


                        many airsoft players would be honored to transfer and equip parts of the armed forces. and for bilateral dialogue and communication, we’ll probably help you, and you’ll enlighten us about something, the Russian Armed Forces would only win.
                        I personally grew up among the taiga, at military bases, and it’s hard for me to argue with modern youth, from airsoft, to prove to them what war is? several current generations --- didn’t serve, how can I prove to them that if the fool stands next to the tank during the shot, will it have to be scraped off the wall?
                        how to prove to them?


                        Quote: walter_rus
                        Of course, it would be nice if the army held classes at the level of your airsoft games, but for this you need the desire of the appropriate bosses and appropriate funding.


                        in fact, what prevents the Russian Ministry of Defense from raking up airsoft for themselves? the badge "Voroshilovsky shooter" in 1941 was worn by 9 people - airsoft players are cooler request - why scatter such a resource?


                        Quote: walter_rus
                        But all the same, the fact remains that only war gives real experience in terms of tactics, weapons, supplies, including uniforms.


                        again:
                        - people who are passionate about strike can benefit! to say what this NVD is, worse than that and all that .... I personally sewed men’s shoes at one time, there are a lot of models of shoes of foreign armies in the testel’s strike, do you think I could tell you what to spend money on and what not?
                      10. phantom359
                        +1
                        24 February 2013 00: 59
                        KarlsonnHow do you feel about footcloths? Here, some argue that they have no alternative. I fundamentally disagree. He wore flying boots in the service, both winter and summer under socks. Sometimes they didn’t take off for two days - they didn’t have time to board in Emba, then the same flight to Sakhalin (an example) felt great. Equally important is the quality of the shoes.
              2. +1
                22 February 2013 12: 07
                I don’t do airsoft, there’s enough service, but at one time before buying special equipment (from a loaf to a candom) I received all the necessary info on their forums! And I didn’t regret it! Someone who wants them back needs to do something with himself! Or smoke the appropriate forums! And then buy and try it for yourself! And then write on this forum how the jacket with the membrane differs from the pea jacket or the shoes with the membrane from the tarpaulin (chrome, yellow) boots! And I advise you to start by purchasing the Bundeswehr membrane jacket from the online stores of the same organization for 1000r via the Internet. You will be shocked at least!
                1. +1
                  23 February 2013 23: 46
                  Quote: pogis
                  I don’t do airsoft - enough service


                  actually the position of a healthy person.


                  Quote: pogis
                  , but at one time before buying special equipment (from a loaf to a candom) I received all the necessary info on their forums! And I did not regret it!


                  what I argue about! why step on a rake?

                  before you buy, ask us.
            2. +1
              22 February 2013 00: 58
              Quote: Karlsonn
              with all due respect, you are a layman, not versed in the issue, - "theorist of kung fu"

              Well then, tell me about the poor Japanese self-defense forces, consisting of 12 infantry and one mechanized division. Who were forced to shoot each other with plastic balls to "create the illusion of national defense."
              1. 0
                22 February 2013 01: 26
                Quote: Spade
                Well then, tell me about the poor Japanese self-defense forces, consisting of 12 infantry and one mechanized division. Who were forced to shoot each other with plastic balls to "create the illusion of national defense."


                Personally, when was the last time you ran 25 km. in full combat gear?
                I am two weeks and five days ago. through the snowy forest bully


                Quote: Spade
                Who were forced to shoot each other with plastic balls to "create the illusion of national defense."


                ready to bet:

                - dress full load and run laughing , I bet that you will cry at the end ... bully and I’m still a couple of km. run ---- argue?
                1. +4
                  22 February 2013 01: 34
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  ready to bet:

                  - we put on a full load and run laughing, I bet that you will cry at the end ... bully and I’m a couple more km away. run ---- argue?

                  And how are you going to prove it? request
                  1. +3
                    22 February 2013 01: 44
                    Well, militarized correspondence running is now fashionable.
                    1. 0
                      22 February 2013 02: 12
                      Quote: Spade
                      Well, militarized correspondence running is now fashionable.


                      In addition to games, every month I arrange myself a march march on 25 km. when was the last time you traveled 25 km. with a backpack in 30 kg.?

                      correspondence? I invite you to throw. bully face off --- are you afraid? monitor military?
                      1. 0
                        22 February 2013 02: 33
                        Arrange, who does not give you?
                        Measure your strength? How old are you, dear?
                      2. 0
                        22 February 2013 02: 52
                        Quote: Spade
                        Arrange, who does not give you?


                        drain protected.


                        Quote: Spade
                        Measure your strength?


                        scary?


                        Quote: Spade
                        How old are you, dear?


                        almost 37-m, cross-country without calculation, march-march with weight - constantly.
                      3. +1
                        22 February 2013 02: 59
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        almost 37, cross-country race without march, march with weight - constantly


                        Shizanutsya ... And you still have not played enough? Would slide into Iraq, find out how rubber differs from the present.
                      4. +2
                        23 February 2013 02: 46
                        Quote: Spade
                        Shizanutsya ... And you still have not played enough?


                        no.


                        Quote: Spade
                        Would slide into Iraq, find out how rubber differs from the present.


                        the Ukrainian military "rode" to Iraq for a long hryvnia, I am not a mercenary to kill for money.
                        besides, I personally know those who have been there ...
                        --- as far as I know now, you served in the Armed Forces of Russia, you can’t even imagine what happened in Iraq in the Ukrainian battalion ---- shame is poorly said.



                        Quote: Spade
                        learned how rubber differs from the real one.


                        I have a penetrating wound in the head, I can "ring" at airports, since the "bullet" is inoperable and cannot be removed.
                  2. 0
                    22 February 2013 02: 09
                    Allex28 hi

                    Quote: Allex28
                    And how are you going to prove it?


                    I personally have everything, a person arrives, I put on gear and we go.
                    wolf course on 70 km. I pass, the person from the monitor - will die.
                    1. +1
                      22 February 2013 02: 37
                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      I personally have everything, a person arrives, I put on gear and we go.
                      wolf course on 70 km. I pass, the person from the monitor - will die.

                      I’m not talking about this, I mean that you are physically better prepared than your opponent.
                      1. +2
                        22 February 2013 02: 39
                        Are you sure?
                      2. -1
                        23 February 2013 02: 47
                        Quote: Spade

                        Are you sure?


                        sure
                      3. +5
                        22 February 2013 02: 59
                        Quote: Allex28
                        I’m not talking about this, I mean that you are physically better prepared than your opponent.


                        I am Russian, I am a man, it is my duty to maintain the physical condition of my calf, so that if I threaten my homeland, I would be able to defend Russia.
                        My opponent is a "kung fu theorist" who can't even walk 50 km with a wolf. pass the. Climbs into a discussion in which he absolutely does not understand.
                        And I strongly doubt that he knows where the AK pencil case is, as well as its purpose.
                      4. +6
                        22 February 2013 03: 06
                        Which AK? Please clarify. Because as some have it in the butt, while others have it in the pouch.
                      5. 0
                        23 February 2013 02: 35
                        Quote: Spade
                        Which AK? Please clarify. Because as some have it in the butt, while others have it in the pouch.


                        finally, a person appeared in the thread who served!

                        Lopatov +++
                      6. +3
                        22 February 2013 03: 15
                        Quote: Karlsonn

                        I am Russian, I am a man, it is my duty to maintain the physical condition of my calf, so that if I threaten my homeland, I would be able to defend Russia.
                        With a full-blown war, we won’t get tired, we’ll live for 5 minutes from the strength of 10.
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        My opponent is a "kung fu theorist" who can't even walk 50 km with a wolf. pass the. Climbs into a discussion in which he absolutely does not understand.

                        From where you can know what he is capable of, I may also not be able to50km (I haven’t tried), you hunt on hills all day long, and how many have passed, who knows, but you barely drag your legs in the evening.
                      7. -1
                        23 February 2013 02: 38
                        Quote: Allex28
                        With a full-blown war, we won’t get tired, we’ll live for 5 minutes from the strength of 10.


                        knowing about thermobaric supplies illusions are difficult to build.


                        Quote: Allex28
                        From where you can know what he is capable of, I may also not be able to50km (I haven’t tried), you hunt on hills all day long, and how many have passed, who knows, but you barely drag your legs in the evening.


                        I know for myself.
                        a person got into a topic where he does not understand - request
                    2. Bismark
                      +2
                      22 February 2013 10: 19
                      Karlsonn
                      I have a question for you. Young airsoft players who were not in Afghanistan and did not serve in the Airborne Forces they saw were torn off, their arms or their colleagues killed after the battle, I think it’s unlikely. In airsoft there is a psychological selection, I think not, everyone is playing, and in a real combat situation, even the most selective can give weakness. No need to compare the game with reality, if only because in reality the level of psychological pressure is much higher than in an ordinary game, I will not list the remaining shortcomings for a long time. Like it or not, airsoft is just a game, because participants do not undergo comprehensive physical and psychological training.
                      I’ll add from myself that airsoft can be taken as an additional subject of training in the internal troops, although in special parts both games and special effects will be cooler.
                      1. 0
                        23 February 2013 02: 55
                        Bismark hi

                        Quote: Bismark
                        they saw torn off, arms legs or killed after the battle of their colleagues, I think hardly


                        I am an airsoft player, I saw.


                        Quote: Bismark
                        No need to compare the game with reality, at least because in reality the level of psychological pressure is much higher


                        more than once veterans played games with us, what’s wrong?


                        Quote: Bismark
                        Like it or not, airsoft is just a game, because participants do not undergo comprehensive physical and psychological training.


                        in SOBR Russia, if my memory serves me, they accept when running one km. for 3.25, I'm one km. at the age of 37 I run for 2.78, I do push-ups on the uneven bars 48 times., I give a hundred from the floor, I pull up with any grip 30 times in an easy one, I sit in negative splits and make a "bridge" to my heels.
                        tell me about "fizukha" bully


                        Quote: Bismark
                        I’ll add from myself that airsoft can be taken as an additional subject of training in the internal troops, although in special parts both games and special effects will be cooler.


                        very good idea!
                      2. Bismark
                        0
                        23 February 2013 15: 37
                        I am an airsoft player, I saw.
                        I didn’t mean you and not B / D veterans but young people and basically the one who did not serve these are two different things. Read my post in full, and not torn pieces.

                        in SOBR Russia, if my memory serves me, they accept when running one km. for 3.25, I'm one km. at the age of 37 I run for 2.78, I do push-ups on the uneven bars 48 times., I give a hundred from the floor, I pull up with any grip 30 times in an easy one, I sit in negative splits and make a "bridge" to my heels.
                        tell me about "fizukha"


                        They look not only at the external data, but also at the internal, since you can get fizuha with the help of trainings, but the internal qualities are already much more complicated.

                        we have more than once game veterans led, what's wrong?

                        Exactly this is just a game. And if you are a veteran, then you should understand this like no other. In the game you feel a sense of excitement, and in a combat situation, fear and a surge of frenzied adrenaline while overcoming it.
                        P / S I myself like to run in the calculation of the intersection with the cadets, but I like to play pinball more.
                      3. +2
                        23 February 2013 23: 53
                        a strike for me personally, a way to support fizuhi, plus the patriotic education of young people.


                        Quote: Bismark
                        They look not only at the external data, but also at the internal, since you can get fizuha with the help of trainings, but the internal qualities are already much more complicated.


                        the main thing in such units is mental health and integrity.
                        - such as I can’t get close.


                        Quote: Bismark
                        Exactly this is just a game. And if you are a veteran, then you should understand this like no other. In the game you feel a sense of excitement, and in a combat situation, fear and a surge of frenzied adrenaline while overcoming it.
                        P / S I myself like to run in the calculation of the intersection with the cadets, but I like to play pinball more.


                        come to our game, you will understand everything yourself.
                        I invite.
                2. +2
                  22 February 2013 01: 41
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  Personally, when was the last time you ran 25 km. in full combat gear?

                  What for? I'd rather rest normally. Ran over for 15 calendars.

                  I don’t understand something, you are trying to get away from talking about the 180-strong Japanese Ground Forces, which are forced to shoot balls at each other to "create the illusion of national defense" (with).
                  For reference: 180 thousand is two and a half times more than the Ground Forces of Ukraine.
                  1. +1
                    22 February 2013 02: 07
                    Quote: Spade
                    For reference: 180 thousand is two and a half times more than the Ground Forces of Ukraine.

                    They have excellent neighbors China and the Russian Federation.

                    Quote: Spade
                    Well, militarized correspondence race

                    by auto-recorder.
                    1. 0
                      22 February 2013 02: 23
                      Quote: Kars
                      They have excellent neighbors China and the Russian Federation.


                      And an even more excellent ally is the United States. So I don't think the Japanese needed to "create the illusion of national defense" (c) by inventing airsoft.
                      1. 0
                        22 February 2013 02: 27
                        Quote: Spade
                        a great ally is the USA.

                        Hope in the USA, you’re not bad. You wouldn’t have an ally, they would have kept at least half a million. And they mostly make equipment for themselves, and in considerable quantities.
                      2. 0
                        22 February 2013 02: 36
                        Well, of course, the Japanese powerfully developed and develop their Self-Defense Forces. As for technology, this is today's reality. Burned in the past. Especially with aviation.
                    2. 0
                      22 February 2013 02: 25
                      Kars hi

                      Greetings buddy, as you see home boys and there are laughing , they know little, but they have their own opinion lol
                      1. +5
                        22 February 2013 02: 29
                        Do you miss the den?
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        as you see home boys and there are

                        yes nafig I almost choked on yours
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        wolf course 70 km

                        on the light 7-8 km along Khortitsa and take me a taxi))))
                      2. +2
                        22 February 2013 03: 00
                        Quote: Kars
                        on the light 7-8 km along Khortitsa and take me a taxi))))


                        we will designate you as chief art, armor and rear logistics drinks , and also select protection.
                      3. 0
                        22 February 2013 02: 38
                        Observe the boy in the mirror.
                  2. 0
                    22 February 2013 02: 14
                    Quote: Spade
                    What for? I'd rather rest normally. Ran over for 15 calendars.

                    Well, I train while you relax.


                    Quote: Spade
                    Are you trying to get away from the conversation


                    it’s you maneuvering like a coward.


                    Quote: Spade
                    180-thousandth Japanese Ground Forces, which are forced to shoot balls at each other in order to "create the illusion of national defense" (c).


                    not funny.


                    Quote: Spade
                    For reference: 180 thousand is two and a half times more than the Ground Forces of Ukraine.


                    Do not disgrace yourself with your ignorance.
                    1. 0
                      22 February 2013 02: 31
                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      Well, I train while you relax.

                      Well, train who does not give you. Personally, the war was enough for me so that I'm not going to play it yet.

                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      it’s you maneuvering like a coward.

                      Is this what I am leaving the question of Japan?

                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      not funny.

                      Of course. It exposes your legend about the occurrence of airsoft in a very stupid light.


                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      Do not disgrace yourself with your ignorance.

                      Let you count correctly.
                      1. 0
                        22 February 2013 03: 07
                        Quote: Spade
                        Personally, the war was enough for me so that I'm not going to play it yet.


                        after refusing to go march, of course Yes even I already agree to avoid this, why argue with ballast?


                        Quote: Spade
                        Of course. It exposes your legend about the occurrence of airsoft in a very stupid light.


                        Do you disgrace like? masochism?


                        Quote: Spade
                        Let you count correctly.


                        if you are an illiterate person and do not know what the modern self-defense forces of Japan are, this is your personal misfortune.
                      2. 0
                        22 February 2013 03: 15
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        after refusing to go march, of course

                        After refusal to go somewhere to measure organs. Came out of this age. Unlike you.


                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        Do you disgrace like? masochism?

                        Well, prove it.
                        Tell us about the Japanese who were forced to invent airsoft. Since having 180 thousand ground forces, they also had to "create the illusion of protection"


                        And then from you one verbiage, not a drop of specificity.
                      3. +1
                        23 February 2013 03: 07
                        Quote: Spade
                        Since having 180 thousand ground forces, they also had to "create the illusion of protection"


                        And then from you one verbiage, not a drop of specificity.


                        the specifics are such, it’s sad to say, but the fact that we have a combat-ready army is only due to the fact that the Russian 18 has been fighting for years, the fighting efficiency of the Russian army has been determined by bitches - generals and comedians of soldiers and officers who laid down since the middle of the 90's.
                        Japanese divisions are now - a good force, by the way thanks to the strike, but the BB regiment, which is now climbing in the green in Ingushetia, will tame the Japanese division.

                        our battalion against amers = ours will win,
                        division to division? question.
                      4. +2
                        23 February 2013 03: 33
                        apparently we are with Lopatov misunderstood each other crying

                        I, Karlsonn, publicly apologize to the comrade LopatovI’m probably too afigel in the attack ... crying

                        we misunderstood each other and it’s my fault.
                        I hope the comrade will accept my apology.
    4. Komodo
      +5
      21 February 2013 20: 59
      Another question: the kit costs 50 thousand rubles, isn't it too expensive? We all go shopping, I can buy 30 thousand rubles, the same thing can be bought in "Overalls".
      Although considering that the owner of BTK Group is also out of the OLIMSTROY lumps, it becomes clear that the price increases. Fool us. They are making a big fool.
      Enterprising chocks didn’t even bring anything of their own.
      1. Komodo
        +4
        21 February 2013 21: 04
        The owner of the divorce. And in the photo above, the South Korean army.
        1. Komodo
          +6
          21 February 2013 21: 42
          For information: when I mastered virgin soil on the Yamal Peninsula, we were forbidden to wear balaclava, because when breathing, the moisture formed on the tissue enters the lungs.
          And this is a direct path to pneumonia.
          Looks like up there people are not quite
          competent sit. Or Mr. BAX decides everything. To which all software ,,,,,
          1. +4
            22 February 2013 02: 38
            Quote: Komodo
            For information: when I mastered virgin soil on the Yamal Peninsula, we were forbidden to wear balaclava, because when breathing, the moisture formed on the tissue enters the lungs.


            because these balaclavas are slop.
            winter selection of masters:



            cost in Kiev 8 bucks.
            1. Kir
              +1
              22 February 2013 03: 04
              In general, it turns out interesting, it seems like hell knows when to winter, when the so-called ski masks were knitted, just like this, and the poles of all countries use it at all, it’s being asked what kind of garden to fence, some were born only?
            2. Komodo
              +1
              22 February 2013 03: 15
              cost in Kiev 8 bucks

              Something is not visible "technological holes" in the mouth and nasopharynx.
              in the army new version.
              For breathing. What you have in the picture in our army
              will cost 80 bucks.
              in the MTR you buy a camcorder and an unloading, and a sight, NVD, LC, a backpack, a walkie-talkie, a headset, a sleeping bag, shoes, gloves, shoe covers and so on. etc.?

              This is not included. You can see it from above in the article in the picture.
              This is a separate contract. We do not even show it.
              1. 0
                22 February 2013 18: 42
                If I am not mistaken, BALAKLAVA is simply a pipe knitted from a woolen fabric or knitted. It can be used as a scarf, hood, cap comforter. In any case, it looks like this for those who invented it - for the British! The shit on the picture is something else ... A helmet-mask or something ...
      2. 0
        22 February 2013 02: 31
        Quote: Komodo
        Another question: the kit costs 50 thousand rubles, isn't it too expensive? We all go shopping, I can buy 30 thousand rubles, the same thing can be bought in "Overalls".


        The equipment of a motorized rifle now costs about 60 000 bucks, training is not a small amount.
        plus weapons and ammunition.
        in the MTR you buy a camcorder and an unloading, and a sight, NVD, LC, a backpack, a walkie-talkie, a headset, a sleeping bag, shoes, gloves, shoe covers and so on. etc.?
        1. Komodo
          0
          22 February 2013 03: 06
          [media = http: //youtu.be/Uo1iBoVDPpk] [media = http: //youtu.be/Uo1iBoVDPpk]
        2. Kir
          +1
          22 February 2013 03: 13
          I apologize for not being in the previous one, I just didn’t notice it. if the MTR-Soyuz Special Equipment, which, at least according to the blades of the office, wanted to rush to them, but in the first the sellers didn’t even know where to be produced, although at the address there was nothing from them, and it’s familiar in that corner it worked. He said that there was not and cannot be production, in general, an analogue of the sharaga of the NOX dash KB Skrylyov!
          1. in reserve
            +5
            22 February 2013 12: 26
            And why not order this option for the military.



            Until the end of the year, the Ministry of Internal Affairs will receive 10 thousand unique protective masks equipped with bactericidal thermal respiratory air conditioners. This was told to Izvestia by the commercial director of the Chelyabinsk company Second Wind, which produces balaclavas, Mikhail Poletaev.

            Thanks to the news, police officers will even be able to detain criminals even in a 50-degree frost - the inhaled air will warm to room temperature due to a special design.

            - The respiratory blocks for balaclavas were created using nanotechnology - the thermal energy of the exhalation warms up a portion of the inspiration. To ensure a bactericidal effect, several layers of tissue are impregnated with a special composition with the addition of nanosilver, which prevents the growth of bacteria. Our masks work for the same principle for people with asthma and chronic bronchitis, for whom the onset of cold weather becomes a problem, Poletaev told Izvestia.
            1. 0
              22 February 2013 13: 57
              Straight Subzero from Mortal Combat Toy smile cool thing bully
            2. Kir
              +1
              22 February 2013 14: 15
              And what is the price of the issue? Plus to the one who developed this product. frankly speaking, with rare exceptions, I personally have no trust whatsoever, in particular it "strains" a little so immediately with the use of nano technologies and de We have created something unique, but in fact it turns out hell knows how old the materials there are, which, by the way, judging by we have everything here.
            3. psdf
              +1
              23 February 2013 01: 19
              Estimated Life? Environmental Response?
              Most likely disposable ...
  2. +18
    21 February 2013 08: 07
    For 300 years we have worn footcloths and here, in order to please the new fashion, we decided to change it! Here, my comrades, I remembered a cartoon about a matroskin cat and a ball, when they put on a ball, they sneakers looked more beautiful, although the winter is in the yard. So we learned to think with our own heads that everyone is looking west! request
    1. +12
      21 February 2013 08: 18
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      For 300 years we have worn footcloths and here, in order to please the new fashion, we decided to change it! Here, my comrades, I remembered a cartoon about a matroskin cat and a ball, when they put on a ball, they sneakers looked more beautiful, although the winter is in the yard. So we learned to think with our own heads that everyone is looking west!

      Everything would be fine if quality materials were used. For example, the same socks. In the navy, footcloths are not worn, only socks, but as I remember the "warm" socks that were given to us, it still knocks out a tear. They will send them from home, then you can live, but you need to put on eight government pairs so that it is at least a little warmer. Even simple socks, a couple of washes and rags.
      1. +6
        21 February 2013 09: 11
        And what, our naval commanders can boast of intensive marching training? Or long-term living in the field? You ask the infantry, landings, scouts. And shipbuilders have their own work.
        1. +4
          21 February 2013 09: 27
          Quote: erix-06
          And what, our naval commanders can boast of intensive marching training? Or long-term living in the field? You ask the infantry, landings, scouts. And shipbuilders have their own work.

          Do not write nonsense, I did not write that the service of a sailor is harder than that of a soldier. But I would like to look at you, so smart, somewhere in the not-so-southern sea in winter. Or do you think that sailors only sit on the cockpits?
          1. +10
            21 February 2013 09: 38
            Actually, I served 20 years in the not-so-southern Sea of ​​Japan, in the Marine Corps of the Pacific Fleet. And I do not need to sing war songs about the socks of sailors serving on ships. Speaking about the advantages or disadvantages of socks and footcloths, it is necessary to take into account not only their ability to retain heat, but also how comfortable the foot of the military personnel will be for a long time in the field. When it lasts for weeks or months. And it is impossible to obtain this information experimentally from shipbuilders, since their service conditions differ significantly.
            1. +4
              21 February 2013 09: 48
              Quote: erix-06
              Speaking about the advantages or disadvantages of socks and footcloths, it is necessary to take into account not only their ability to retain heat, but also how comfortable the foot of the military personnel will be for a long time in the field. When it lasts for weeks or months. And it is impossible to obtain this information experimentally from shipbuilders, since their service conditions differ significantly.

              Have you read my first comment? What does the experimental path have to do with it? What are you talking about? I originally wrote that
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Everything would be fine if quality materials were used.

              The main quality of the product and the material, and those socks that are issued to sailors are profanity. In order to understand whether a leg is cold or not, it is not necessary to serve for 20 years, you need to go out at least once to build in the winter.
              1. +7
                21 February 2013 10: 02
                Well, if you think that I’ve spent four years of training at a military school, and twenty years of officer service have been in constructions less than you did for your term, then you are a big dreamer. In addition to the buildings, which for you, apparently, were the greatest extreme sports, I had to exploit military uniforms in much more difficult conditions. I read your first comment carefully, and answered it with the sense that the experience of using military uniforms by sailors is not the most complete picture of the whole variety of conditions.
                1. +3
                  21 February 2013 11: 22
                  Quote: erix-06
                  I had to exploit military uniforms in much more difficult conditions.

                  I'm very happy for you.
                  Quote: erix-06
                  Well, if you think that for four years of my studies at a military school, and for twenty years of officer service I have been in constructions less than you did for your term, then you are a big dreamer

                  You look more like a dreamer because you are attributing to me what I did not write about.
                  Quote: erix-06
                  I read your first comment carefully, and answered it with the sense that the experience of using military uniforms by sailors is not the most complete picture of the whole variety of conditions.

                  Again 25. I spell: nowhere did I write about someone whose operating conditions were harsher and even more so did not say that the sailors had the very best, I wrote that EVERYTHING should be of high quality, and what they gave us was far from ideal. I already realized that you served 20 years in the Pacific Fleet’s Marine Corps and you know MUCH more about uniforms than I am, a complete amateur, you can no longer repeat this.
                  PS I do not hope that you understand.
                  1. +4
                    21 February 2013 11: 53
                    Okay, don't be upset. I did not want to somehow belittle your contribution to the cause of protecting our Motherland. Fair. Just your example is not entirely correct. If your commanders are full of idiots who really liked to freeze personnel on long-term constructions, then in this case the main fault lies not with the outfit. Although I agree that often the assortment of military clothing we have to replace or supplement with some things from home. Okay, peace? drinks
                    1. +4
                      21 February 2013 12: 05
                      Quote: erix-06
                      Okay, don't be upset.

                      Thank you, I won’t. smile
                      Quote: erix-06
                      I did not want to somehow belittle your contribution to the cause of protecting our Motherland.

                      I did not pretend to contribute, although in total I served 8 calendars. feel
                      Quote: erix-06
                      If your commanders are full of boobs who loved to freeze personnel on long-term constructions,

                      There were all kinds and all.
                      Quote: erix-06
                      Okay, peace?

                      Yes, it seems they didn’t fight. drinks
                    2. +1
                      21 February 2013 18: 38
                      Quote: erix-06
                      your example is not entirely correct.

                      The example of Vladimirtsa is very correct and to the point - not only the "infantry" have problems with their uniforms, they are in the navy, but about this somehow no gu-gu. The conditions of service are different, but the problems are similar.
                      1. walter_rus
                        0
                        22 February 2013 23: 37
                        But there are specific problems - for example, naval equipment for PM - a holster with a gun hangs on long thin straps that strive to cling to something or simply fray and break. In the Navy, they cling to traditions most of all, but maybe now they have come up with something new?
            2. +1
              21 February 2013 09: 52
              And wore footcloths all the time? Only honestly.
              1. +4
                21 February 2013 10: 07
                Of course not. Wore and socks. and footcloths. It all depended on the type of shoes and operating conditions. He wore socks in chrome boots or boots with high berets. In yuft boots, footcloths. I always had a set of footcloths and a stock of socks with me at the field exits.
                1. +1
                  21 February 2013 10: 15
                  So I mean, everything depends on shoes. Well, socks should be normal, not what appeared in the army. The neighbor brought it, showed it. From the category of "super cheap". Almost do not stretch, a thin, healthy seam will slide down and start rubbing.

                  Yuftevye at least normal caught? And then I threw two pairs, heels came off. Maybe the party is like that.
                  1. 0
                    21 February 2013 11: 17
                    I received normal cotton socks in stock. Such as by Soviet standards. I also received woolen socks. There is not pure wool, with some kind of additive, but nevertheless ... Yuft boots were normal. Much depends on the storage conditions - if the warehouse is damp, then the threads rot and the skin itself. And in the school, for the warm period, they bought themselves tarpaulin boots, but not like soldiers, but with a molded rubber sole and with a wide bootleg. In the heat, during the march on foot, the most blooper. Then for the first time on such a sole I saw boots with high ankle boots from "military men". We, in the Marine Corps, were not supposed to be like that at first.
                    1. +1
                      21 February 2013 15: 52
                      Quote: erix-06
                      And in the school, for a warm period, they bought tarpaulin boots for themselves, but not like the soldiers', but on a molded rubber sole and with a wide bootleg.

                      "Lightweight"? We were forbidden to wear. These are civilian boots, like the Balts produced. There were also such ankle boots, also lightweight. A common problem is the outsole. On the asphalt, for half a year. Rubbed to a hole under the foot.
                      1. 0
                        22 February 2013 02: 57
                        Wow, you know! Exactly, that's how we called them, "lightweight". We were forbidden to take fizo in them, but in the fields, no problems. The outsole was really weak - or it burst along the tread pattern and crumbled, or simply rubbed off. But they were inexpensive, and therefore they could be changed quite often.
                      2. +2
                        22 February 2013 03: 08
                        And we have the opposite. In wear, no, in FIZO you can. Kamenolomenskoe, KVAKU. True, while he was studying, it turned into MikhVAKIU
                      3. +3
                        22 February 2013 04: 35
                        I was finishing the DVOKU. We believed that a cadet should be able to pass all the prescribed standards in the heaviest man-eating boots, and then in lighter shoes he would not care. "It's hard in training, easy in battle ..."
        2. +3
          21 February 2013 12: 09
          Did you ask? I answer. For 2 years of urgent service he practically did not wear footcloths, he wore them only for shows. The rest of the time, he wore socks with boots and berets (mostly) and had no problems with them. For the most part, I bought socks myself or sent them from home. Shagistics, running through the mountains and deserts was enough, as well as field exits. True, I hardly saw any cold weather for my service; I served in TurkVO and ZakVO.
          1. +4
            21 February 2013 13: 12
            ural70
            For the most part, I bought socks myself or sent them from home
            This is the key phrase. You buy high-quality and most importantly in size goods. It is far from the idea that conscripts will be given what is needed to the soldiers.
          2. Zynaps
            +1
            22 February 2013 03: 41
            understandably. as we have, in the training regiment in Pechory (1071th OUP SpN) ski marches did not go 80 kilometers. Considering themselves to be the smartest and going to the march in socks at first, the socks either strayed from intense walking, or got wet and quickly ended, while people who listened to the elders usually had two pairs of footcloths that were rewound - and a blunder.
          3. +1
            22 February 2013 13: 00
            By the way about TurkVO! For several years I had a chance to walk in the "civilian" mountains near the Chirchik test site. In the summer they wore Fergana sneakers with thin cotton and thick woolen socks, in winter - ankle boots with a pack of socks: cotton-wool-synthetics! Synthetics, to keep woolen ones. And the locals generally wear galoshes in winter and summer, sometimes in kirzach!
      2. Lich
        +7
        21 February 2013 09: 13
        In addition, it suddenly turned out that the soldiers were opposed to the abolition of footcloths, which the new Russian defense minister had recently ordered to forget. However, soldiers believe that socks are impractical and rub their feet.
        I also support that the footcloths are needed and necessary myself served and we had both socks and footcloths socks come into disrepair per day.
    2. +5
      21 February 2013 11: 27
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      For 300 years we have worn footcloths and here, in order to please the new fashion, we decided to change it!

      What does fashion have to do with ???
      Production has changed, the quality of production of shoes that require Quality socks, and not the one I get on that they give to fighters.
      I quit 10 years, but I’m sure that nothing has changed - just as they gave cheap Chinese, which, by mistake, looked like socks, they still give it (and even 1-2 pairs for a month, which are clearly not enough) - then of course, the advantages of footcloths undeniable.
      Enrages the one-sided thinking of the bureaucratic fraternity from the Moscow Region. am
    3. Reindeer herder
      +2
      21 February 2013 12: 54
      For me, socks + footcloths are better than each individually. he went all his life, even on an urgent basis. The most interesting thing is that I have never knocked down my legs, but in army shoes, who remember these brown monsters, regularly.
    4. +1
      21 February 2013 13: 38
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      For 300 years we have worn footcloths and here, in order to please the new fashion, we decided to change it!

      I agree. The same "balaclava" appeared as a result of the Crimean War in 1854, and now what? Shemakh, felt boots, a bunch of things for which there is no worthy replacement yet.
    5. alexandr00070
      0
      21 February 2013 21: 32
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      So we learned to think with our own heads that everyone is looking west!

      maybe sabotage
    6. +2
      22 February 2013 12: 49
      Footcloths - BEFORE! And after all, they were also different - both HB, and bike if in the winter. And if it’s really cold, they were made of cloth, from sleep ... a written-off greatcoat! True, then the boots were selected by size - the other is larger! Aesthetics at least - but the legs are warm!
  3. Rusich
    +25
    21 February 2013 08: 22
    It was a perfect shape. Warm practical 100% cotton without synthetics with buttons. I unfastened them like I had already professionally mastered it when FIRING, I took one set home to -45 in one T-shirt, of course you have to tighten your belt with it! And now you can’t find her anymore ((((officers and soldiers of military service are trying to find her so that the service would not be DIFFICULT AND JOY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FLORA SHE SAME VERTICAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. Soldier
      +3
      21 February 2013 08: 53
      I myself can’t understand, for the sake of someone, they removed the “flora”?
      1. +2
        21 February 2013 10: 02
        The collar does not mate with modern body armor.

        She was different too. On batting, it is warm, with a heater from second-hand overcoats, not very. Well, the quality of the fabric is very different. There was a good tight one, and rubbish that no one would wear on a citizen.
        1. 0
          21 February 2013 14: 51
          You could refine it ...
        2. AndreyAB
          +4
          22 February 2013 05: 53
          But a fur vest also came to her, only their garment owners poked, copied and then sold, and their uniform was good, and I removed, again, from the tambourine interest of the same Ministry of Defense and others like him, grandmothers are huge on this cut down, interest, as always, and the opinions of those who serve them are no longer interested, and even knowing how to wear footcloths, I had to run around the mountains and wore socks - after 1-2 days we just threw out the socks and again wound the footcloths, who wore longer then the fungus was provided, even with daily washing, which did not always work in the field - this is my opinion.
    2. +3
      21 February 2013 09: 00
      Quote: Rusich
      FLORA SHE SAME VERTICAL !!

      the kit of such a house lies good
      1. +3
        21 February 2013 10: 05
        But the flora was not removed! I was informed by my neighbor, who is serving now, they were officially allowed to buy and carry flora.
    3. +1
      21 February 2013 12: 15
      Before Flora there was another "lump", four-color. The first time I wore one was in February 1989. It was even better. Khabchik was tucking into his pants. The pea jacket has a large muton collar.
    4. progserega
      +3
      22 February 2013 04: 27
      He registered to comment on this very topic.

      Comrades, let me highlight this issue from the point of view of the modern approach to clothing in mountaineering and hiking (those areas where there are heavy loads, extreme temperatures, long walks on foot, the dependence of life on equipment).

      So, thermal underwear:
      The task is not to absorb the evaporation of the body, but to let it pass through itself without getting wet. HB - gets wet and the person freezes.
      Thermosocks:
      The task is the same - not to get wet, warm, remove moisture. Anti-abrasion - good strong fabric. In practice, some good thermal socks under average loads can "go away" for a couple of years. During the same time, you can erase countless pairs of ordinary HB-socks.
      More details about thermal underwear and the concept of layers here (website of the Russian alp-producer bask): http://www.bask.ru/info/papers/advice/2440.html
      Boots / berets:
      The task is the same - moisture should be removed from the legs, but not get inside from the outside. Otherwise, we get the effect of a polyethylene package, when it seems it’s not wet, stepping into a puddle, and your legs are wet, sweaty and freeze. One of the layers of the boot should be a membrane (a material that lets steam through, but not water).
      To prevent snow from falling into ankle boots, there is a simple device, which is "a hundred years old at lunchtime" - gaiters (or leggings):
      http://www.alpindustria.ru/catalog/shoes/13713/

      That is, to summarize:
      Normal clothes (cotton, wool, batting, etc.) are only good if we are sitting in the cold and not moving. If the kind of activity is associated with heavy loads, stops in the cold, then just such a layered concept saves.
      For example, in alpenism:
      At -15 in the wind, in a blizzard, we scramble along the route - we drenched in p'ot, beat the "station", cling to and hang in the wind for 2 hours, waiting for our comrades while they beat the next "station" to rise higher, etc. In such a situation, in an ordinary down jacket and HB linen, you will get wet all over at the first stage, at the second - frostbite. In the case of layers and thermal underwear - steam from the body passes through the clothes, the clothes do not get wet and remain relatively dry, in case of a long stop - a puff is thrown over the top, over the "storming" - and you can survive.
      1. Kir
        +1
        22 February 2013 14: 37
        Everything is correct for an active kind of activity! But again But, when you stop for a certain time of being motionless, by the way, in real life, you have everything according to timing ?, these magic properties disappear, with regards to socks, I know how those who rabidly wear all this synthetics piously believing in its miracle , as well as those who really do with woolen socks, and the most important question is how much normal and not budget equipment weighs, both in grams and in green candy wrappers? Unless, of course, I remember correctly, some correct ankle boots with a chord for 20 rubles per roll! With regards to our manufacturers, I will look, although in fact I am sure of everything! strangers for one hundred percent, except for our hands !, and the consumables are more of the same blood as most-DuPont !? By the way, the same crap is also on the site "made in Russia" (I was not mistaken, but deliberately with a small one! because I see no reason for pride, but a shame at all 000% -did, even the materials are not yours!). neighing heartily!
      2. 0
        9 June 2013 18: 17
        Quote: progserega
        That is, to summarize:
        Normal clothes (cotton, wool, batting, etc.) are only good if we are sitting in the cold and not moving. If the kind of activity is associated with heavy loads, stops in the cold, then just such a layered concept saves.

        yeah, I wonder if there was mountaineering before the advent of a layered concept? And if there was, where is the guarantee that the layered concept is not an advertisement for artificial materials? And if not advertising, then what does a breathable layer that removes water mean? Doesn't your foot sweat at all? Where is moisture taken to the street? To the top layer? Where does it go from the top layer?
    5. smershspy
      0
      7 May 2013 13: 15
      I agree with you! I have two sets of "vertical" and "reed"! Great shape! They did not spare the material for the soldiers and officers! Even if we take the fabrics of uniforms, the old samples now look like new, and new uniforms too quickly deteriorate and lose their appearance!
  4. +12
    21 February 2013 08: 26
    Normal form, layered approach is reasonable and correct. The main thing is how this product will be manufactured, if there are no high-quality questions. The only thing I want to notice:
    For the northern regions, boots should be, however, and foot-wear should not be written off, but just give the fighter a choice which is more convenient for him.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      23 February 2013 18: 33
      We have a choice in KZ. Despite the fact that socks have long been introduced, there are footcloths in the warehouses, and a fighter can ask them instead of socks if desired.
      Regarding boots - that is, they are in all parts of the warehouses and are issued if necessary.
      By the way, our form is simpler, but there are no particular complaints about it. Quite fit strong, warm comfortable shape. It only fades fast enough. Although the faded form is very suitable for the color of the August scorched steppe)))) We could have guessed this way))) We somehow more or less mixed the virtues of both the Soviet form and the NATO one. Although many bells and whistles, of course not yet.
      But I do not like field hats for manufacturing. Not very thought out.
  5. +6
    21 February 2013 08: 30
    Interestingly, the current leadership will have enough mind and courage to listen to criticism and correct mistakes? Or, as always, in the army: the order of the eldest - n ... c to the younger?
    1. +2
      21 February 2013 12: 00
      on this background
      Supports the Minister of Defense and his deputy - Ruslan Tsalikov. According to him, footcloths “look like an anachronism”- where is he against the boss, and in principle and in the Ministry of Emergencies the uniform from Shoigu-shit
      1. 0
        21 February 2013 12: 03
        Not beautiful what?!?!?
        laughing
        1. +5
          21 February 2013 12: 45
          Quote: Sashka
          Not beautiful what?!?!?
          laughing

          beautiful only when quietly at the desk, the material is thin, incomprehensible, the jacket is shortened, hands up belly naked, it’s hot in the summer, it’s cold in the winter, the seams are creeping out, there’s no problem with the sizes, I don’t pick up the right ones, I don’t have a gusset in my pants- don’t lift the leg without tearing the fly to the ass, but there is a winter cap, it is not clear when to wear and a bunch of chevrons
          Earlier in soldier’s hb they were allowed to leave, now it’s impossible
          1. +4
            21 February 2013 13: 05
            laughing
            Yeahhhhh .....
            Well hz at what stage this jamb appeared ... Maybe Shoigu was presented with a good, high-quality one, he approved, and then like everywhere else, someone kicked back to sew, won the tender, and there the local master saved, bought the bullshit fabric, and indicated how good at a fabulous price, but the difference is in your pocket, so it turned out that the bullshit came to the Ministry of Emergencies ...
            This happens everywhere. I remember, once the authorities chose one device, nothing was ready for the ready, they decided to make it to order. Offices provided (some in mock-ups, some ready-made version) with a dozen options. The office, which won, provided a prototype unit. He was completely satisfied! Everything is clear. But when the remaining 6 pieces began to arrive, this is tin! You won’t look without tears .... Instead of a stainless steel, it’s an ordinary tin, something is missing, even the dimensions are different !!!!
            laughing
            1. +2
              21 February 2013 13: 13
              maybe you’re right, although I don’t think cabinet ministers should evaluate the form of climbing by rubble and rake fires, where no one knows it, complaints have been going on for a long time and things are still there
  6. +11
    21 February 2013 08: 31
    The Russian Ministry of Defense is still opposed to footcloths ...



    Feet should be washed more often, gentlemen generals!
    1. +2
      21 February 2013 08: 42
      To the one who rolled minus

      Yes, not to you, but to the soldiers! And you can walk like that!
    2. +7
      21 February 2013 08: 45
      Their legs are clean, they grow out of their heads. But instead of their head ...
  7. +8
    21 February 2013 08: 41
    Again swing swing ....... already got ..... the form is not the same i.e. give me some more money! WOULD LEAVE FLORA, GRAVERS. and there would be no worries!
    1. +10
      21 February 2013 10: 06
      What is impressive is that they will be sewn the same ... Successful builders of Olympic facilities. sad
      1. +3
        21 February 2013 10: 10
        Do you know what is the most interesting? Overalls for any oilmen and gas workers they sew very good
        1. +3
          21 February 2013 11: 09
          well ........ an oilman is more expensive than a soldier ... we’ll sell oil, but we’re not going to defend the campaign crying
          1. +4
            21 February 2013 12: 33
            The employer will not buy shit for the oilman and gasman; he himself is interested in this. But MO soldier - buys.
  8. +5
    21 February 2013 08: 46
    Oh my God. I walked on the floor in socks (naturally without a pale), I didn’t rub my leg nirazu. shoes need to be FITTED to the foot, and not as on a distribution board - took what was issued. As for boots - they are better than berets - do not slip and wear faster. and the form ... a madhouse in general.
  9. +12
    21 February 2013 08: 48
    Quote: Vladimirets
    They don’t wear footcloths in the fleet

    I don’t know how it is now, but in the sixties we in the north wore YALOVYE boots and WOOL foot cloths. Stunning convenience and warmth of things!
    1. predator.3
      +4
      21 February 2013 16: 39
      Quote: crambol
      I don’t know how it is now, but in the sixties we in the north wore YALOVYE boots and WOOL foot cloths. Stunning convenience and warmth of things!


      Great photo, my father served near the Arkhangelsk in the Navy, in 61-64 years.
      1. +2
        21 February 2013 20: 09
        So we land with him, then! And I'm the far right. Photo taken on Three Islands.
        1. predator.3
          +1
          21 February 2013 22: 18
          I’ll be in the village, I will show the photo to my father, what the hell not to joke, suddenly there are friends! hi
    2. +1
      21 February 2013 20: 57
      judging by the photo, a friend in the center of calcium overeat ...)))))
      1. +4
        21 February 2013 23: 35
        judging by the photo, a friend in the center of calcium overacted ...


        Is it with antlers? So it was Sanka Barinov who was set up for fun!
        And we are standing at the pier, waiting for the tug to the island of Morzhovets. But this is a completely different story!
  10. ed65b
    +4
    21 February 2013 09: 00
    Leave the footcloths unambiguously. Himself in the army on a thin toe all the same shook a footcloth. Without her, the cute leg in the boot feels bad. And Baloev can't sew a uniform, let him brew beer. Is he in my opinion from "Baltika" or a namesake? Chechen will find it.
    1. +18
      21 February 2013 09: 12
      The footcloth can always be turned over and wound with the dry side. But with socks such a number will not work. And when the legs are warm and dry, then health is in order.
      1. +4
        21 February 2013 09: 34
        A minus? Can not weave foot wraps? laughing
    2. +4
      21 February 2013 09: 41
      ed65d agree. It is strange that a thief will dress a soldier? It will turn out the same as with a "digital", they will sew from cheap low-quality material. Why can't the "flora" be returned? Shoigu himself did not wear footcloths, so he considers them a historical relic, but he they look in his mouth, there must be a choice
    3. +3
      22 February 2013 00: 37
      Quote: ed65b
      Footcloths definitely leave.

      I 100% agree with you. You definitely need to keep the footcloths, and additionally introduce socks. There will not be a strong overexpenditure, since such a "cabbage" is introduced. And let the soldier choose from footcloths and socks what to wear and what is more convenient for him to fight (well, except for those cases when uniformity is necessary - then the commander will tell you how to be).
      To remove footcloths from the army, having neither the ability to put normal socks, nor the serious experience of their massive use in the army, can greatly harm the armed forces. IMHO.
    4. Passing
      +1
      22 February 2013 20: 56
      Quote: ed65b
      Footcloths definitely leave. Himself in the army on a thin sock still shook his footcloth. Without it, a nice leg in a boot feels bad.

      I still didn’t understand why people so stubbornly prove that footcloth is irreplaceable, that socks suck, but now I understand, people remember how they tried to wear socks with BOOTS, and make a logical conclusion that footcloths are better. But it doesn’t reach them that the boots are completely canceled. There will be no more boots, none at all. And now there will be BERTZ. And normal boots, high-quality, (not the garment that was in the nineties), selected strictly in size, perfectly worn with socks, without mazoles, without sweating, footcloths for berets are simply not needed, they are simply absurd!
  11. +7
    21 February 2013 09: 12
    Everything again came up against theft. After all, now there are fabrics that are both light and durable and breathe, and here along the way they took the cheapest synthetics in China, so it breaks and does not breathe and is cold.
    1. +10
      21 February 2013 09: 58
      My friend works as a designer at a garment factory (it’s just that some sets are sewn), she says that of course there are fabrics with excellent properties, but they are not produced in Russia. And those that produce, although they correspond approximately in terms of quality to the best samples, are not produced in sufficient quantities.
      On foreign fabrics, no one will produce the entire form.
      Regarding theft, in general comedy. The order for the tender is won by large metropolitan factories, where for a long time there are no seamstresses in the required quantity, or even one design department is left in general. To complete the order on time - orders are placed in the regions, as is the case with the factory where my girlfriend works. Of course, the amount of the order for the subcontractor is reduced in proportion to the expected profit for oneself smile They are only sent labels from the head factory, Schaub looked as if released by the general contractor laughing
      1. +2
        21 February 2013 10: 58
        Regarding theft, in general comedy.
        I would write this comment in the largest font and red!
      2. Cpa
        +3
        21 February 2013 17: 28
        Ask a friend, let them write an article about it, at least here !!!
        1. +2
          21 February 2013 22: 02
          She will be fired immediately, she says that "military uncles" came laughing and was strictly forbidden to chat about what-where-how much, especially with regards to the number of sets and where they are shipped. Maybe they scare, but who needs extra problems? ... all the more so it is so difficult to find a job. The factory in Sarapul ... I think so "one of the factories" of course, the orders are huge. There is also a women's colony in Sarapul (almost in the center of the city) and it also has its own sewing workshop, and something tells me that they also sew for the army there.
    2. predator.3
      +8
      21 February 2013 15: 53
      The troops are completely overgrown, then this is not this, then another! Well, look how a woman chooses clothes in a boutique, maybe they are dressed in Soviet uniforms ?!
      2 years wore, without any pneumonia, no one died of cold
      !
      1. -3
        21 February 2013 16: 08
        Quote: predator.3
        2 years were worn, without any pneumonia, no one died from the cold!


        This, to put it mildly, is not true.
        1. AndreyAB
          +1
          22 February 2013 05: 56
          This reality has become soft and tender as a modern army, a day with a break for a while, and the old form is too rough and is not suitable for non-educated people.
      2. phantom359
        0
        23 February 2013 01: 00
        predator.3,I agree. Only now trohi is another time and equipment. Boots for scrap definitely. Good shoes are 100% better.
      3. psdf
        0
        23 February 2013 01: 30
        And the options were from most of Africa, to the Arctic.
  12. +11
    21 February 2013 09: 15
    The main problem in our army for many years was the lack of normal shoes for various conditions. Everything else can be endured, but if the legs are not in comfortable conditions, then any soldier ceases to be a combat unit. A fighter with grated legs is just as wounded. Well, the equipment we have is complete rest.
    1. Cpa
      +2
      21 February 2013 17: 34
      That's right, the generals demand footbags, because the prisoners sew shoes. In such shoes without footcloths, kapets feet. They asked the school to allow the shoes to be allowed to everyone at their own expense. No, I walked in the boots and you walked around. good shoes to do or to buy from Belarusians. Fars next!
  13. +3
    21 February 2013 09: 21
    Even the most correct and correct decisions are broken about corruption. Manufacturers paid for the fact that they supplied the form and sew it from the devil knows what! Shoigu cannot cope with them. Or is it not a desire ?!
    1. +1
      21 February 2013 09: 42
      Exactly. The same with socks: they gave out cheap Chinese, of course they are torn and rubbed
  14. +8
    21 February 2013 09: 22
    Again the jackal Bolloev got a tidbit! He has already shown himself at a construction site in Sochi! How much can thieves and traitors be given control over critical issues? Shoigu is either blind or mows under a capercaillie!
  15. +15
    21 February 2013 09: 36
    The most comfortable and warmest form was this tank one. The scouts on our heels went on the heels of some claims to it, trying to persuade us to change the new flora to our slightly worn one.
    1. +2
      21 February 2013 09: 47
      A jacket is needed on fur and a sheepskin collar. Then the very thing.
      1. 0
        21 February 2013 09: 56
        This, even during the USSR, was only in the northern and equated ones.
        1. 0
          21 February 2013 10: 11
          I have served and live in Primorye. Officers were given fur.
          1. 0
            21 February 2013 10: 17
            About Primorye in the know. One translated brought from there. True, only lining.
            1. +2
              21 February 2013 12: 04
              The fur lining was an inventory item. When I left for the academy, my head of the clothing depot began to whine, so that I would hand over my jacket with fur. And I had it nuls. I had to run into the enlightenment of the division, so that he would cover this topic with some kind of lost cowards, ties and other crap. And at the academy, I presented this jacket to one tankman from those places where fur was not given out.
    2. 0
      22 February 2013 13: 46
      If I'm not mistaken, is this the uniform of the crews of armored vehicles? The quality is super, but to my mind it is too heavy to wear. I myself wore only a jacket-pea jacket was for drill reviews and various "show"!
  16. +6
    21 February 2013 09: 40
    In fact, the Soviet form was quite relevant and practical yet. Just the question was not in the form itself, but in the amount of money.
    1. +1
      21 February 2013 10: 20
      Quote: Mareman Vasilich
      In fact, the Soviet form was quite relevant and practical even

      What Soviet-hb. with golife pants? Probably joke? Afghan immediately showed that such a field uniform is not suitable for war, it has not changed since the Second World War! request
      1. +2
        22 February 2013 14: 00
        I will support Mareman Vasilich! The Soviet form is not only breeches and cotton with shiny buttons. This is the "Afghan" and the so-called. "mobuta" - a form for jumping, and "sand" - this is how helicopter pilots were dressed in the south! Wore a very comfortable Marine Corps cotton myself in the mid 80s. It's a pity I can't merge the photo, I need to digitize. A classmate served in Angola at the PMTF, wore shorts, a Panama hat, and a short-sleeved shirt! The madhouse was enough - a neighbor served in Mongolia, when some wise guy transferred part of them (on paper) to the Union. They took their panamas from the guys and gave them their caps - everyone's necks, ears and back of the head were burnt!
  17. Maj.
    +2
    21 February 2013 09: 42
    I wonder why the Americans (whom we all like to call stupid) do not have similar problems with the field uniform ...
    1. +7
      21 February 2013 09: 56
      Because their treatment and the funeral of one soldier are more expensive than the creation of appropriate equipment. We would like that!
    2. +1
      21 February 2013 10: 26
      Quote: Major
      I wonder why the Americans (whom we all like to call stupid) do not have similar problems with the field uniform ...

      Let our officials from the Moscow Region give free rein, they will change their uniforms every year, so much "cabbage" can be cut down! amIMHO it's time to stop reinventing the wheel, amers make great shoes, buy a license or let production work in Russia.
    3. Fox
      +2
      21 February 2013 13: 18
      even as they arise

      Everyone has long known that the Pentagon is nothing more than a huge machine for cutting official dough. Examples are a wagon and a small cart, starting with the failed project F-35 (and F-22) and non-flying hypersonic devices, ending with theft on the supply of fuel and drinking water to Afghanistan, but for the time being we are talking directly about uniforms. A scandal erupted in Afghanistan a couple of years ago. Well, like a scandal, so - a scandal. The next army supplier, the TenCate company did their best - they brought the belligerent army to a completely useless form. Everything there was disgusting - and seams, and fabric, and accessories. As a result, after only two weeks, the soldiers flashed their bare thighs .--------------- the full article is here: http: //oko-planet.su/oko-planet/politik/politikdiscussions/138951- kak-pilyat
      -byudzhet-v-armii-ssha.html
    4. Drosselmeyer
      +3
      21 February 2013 15: 03
      Maj.,
      They simply do not have Teymuraz Bolloev.
      1. +1
        22 February 2013 14: 09
        They have clowns and they are tough! Freshly sewn clothes in the "multicam" were sent to British soldiers in Afghanistan, where these Chinese crafts began to creep right on the soldiers! I read a translation from the Times newspaper - the article is just obscene!
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          23 February 2013 18: 41
          I just wanted to remember this case)))
  18. EDW
    EDW
    +3
    21 February 2013 09: 45
    Also very pleased with the flora, he saved the kit.

    As far as I remember, only absolutely crooked and lazy complained about footcloths.

    The desire to introduce new things everywhere is completely unclear, why not try out socks in different climatic zones, different troops, at different intensities, analyze the results and introduce new products only where and where they came into the subject?
    The army is not a fashion house in order to dress everything that the designer wants to create. An inconvenient form at hour X will pass for sabotage and undermining the country's defense capability (there are enough examples in history).
  19. +2
    21 February 2013 09: 58
    No matter how they introduce and brag about another "new" form, they will steal money for its production. Our powerful have one thing in common, regardless of party affiliation - to screw up the previous bosses, destroy everything that was done before and start over, but then eventually return to what they destroyed.
    At first, the form and its accessories will be normal, but then the economy on the form will begin and eventually some sort of burlap will turn out again. The next new Minister of Defense will announce that the uniform is out of date and the next Yudashkin will invent him another masterpiece of camouflage art ...
    1. +1
      21 February 2013 10: 05
      It is necessary to adopt the Kazakh experience. There sawmills of defense funds and haulers are planted.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        23 February 2013 18: 42
        Quote: Spade
        It is necessary to adopt the Kazakh experience. There sawmills of defense funds and haulers are planted.

        and not only them, but also businessmen with whom they did business. even if they are subjects of another state (Israel, Ukraine).
  20. +13
    21 February 2013 10: 06
    found a picture on the net
  21. +8
    21 February 2013 10: 19
    I would like to see the Minister of Defense, as he runs 16 hours a day in a 100% field test. Remember how often a soldier changes his underwear?
    1. -6
      21 February 2013 10: 21
      And what kind of "100% polyester" are you talking about?
      1. +4
        21 February 2013 10: 34
        Underwear developed by BTK Group from 100% polyester. At least this is stated in the photo to the article. Look carefully.
        1. -2
          21 February 2013 16: 05
          It's not linen, it's the second layer of fleece. This thing is an order of magnitude warmer than the winter "beluga". At the same time, it does not retain moisture. Need to go back to the traditional cold? Few people in "Yudashkinskaya" got cold because of this?
          You would still require a waterproof suit made of natural fabric.
          1. +1
            22 February 2013 14: 24
            Since the beginning of winter I have been selling Helicon underwear, 2-layer mesh (?) And light fleece under BDU stitches and a CWU-Miltec jacket. According to our weather (Kaliningrad), I wear it for two days. The only problem is when the ambient temperature changes - what is comfortable outside - it's hot in the car and indoors! Washes well and dries instantly! The quality of tailoring, by the way, is not a fountain, if the first layer is hooked to the velcro-hardener, there are "puffs" It is better not to wear both layers under the "armor" - you will get wet! But in general it is quite acceptable!
  22. +3
    21 February 2013 10: 19
    The Soviet form was created for battle, and the current one for window dressing.
    Well, the times of Paul I are direct, all for the beauty of the Prussian system.
    Yes, that's just the Prussians in this form were beaten more than once !!!
  23. +1
    21 February 2013 10: 20
    Most surprising is the speed of implementation of the new form. But the nicer one needs to run in her two years old.
    1. +1
      21 February 2013 10: 27
      why two years? if we run clothes for two years, then what about the rest? any soldier is a contract soldier, officer, he will say what clothes should be. all the samples are there today. but why is something completely different done
    2. 0
      21 February 2013 13: 25
      Quote: Pelican
      But the nicer one needs to run in her two years old.

      Well, this is absolutely worthless! The uniform is not made for the comfort of the soldier, but in order to cut down the "dough", but here it is necessary to quickly am
  24. Sleptsoff
    +4
    21 February 2013 10: 38
    For Neh stupidly copy, it is also necessary to sometimes turn on the brains themselves. The fact that Velcro tends to clog up with dirt, I think, is known even to a child.
  25. AK-47
    +10
    21 February 2013 11: 09
    Americans have high-quality boots with very high quality. Made of genuine leather with water-repellent impregnation. With different impregnations and membranes like "Gore Tex". A rich country can afford expensive boots for its army ... by the way, three pairs of socks for a week are laid.

    My father was a military man and since childhood I knew how to wind footcloths so I did not need to be taught. I think that this is a normal thing, they dry quickly, quickly rewind, they are warmer than in socks. Footcloths are much more convenient and practical than socks.
    1. +1
      21 February 2013 13: 30
      Quote: AK-47
      Footcloths are much more convenient and practical than socks.

      Clarification, if you wear boots! Well, boots are only good for parades!
      1. AndreyAB
        +1
        22 February 2013 06: 00
        Bullshit, they wound the ports in boots the only way, and turn much better than socks, more hygienic if you want, especially in isolation from the base, it is checked on one’s feet, but provided that the footcloth is wound correctly (most importantly not to be lazy).
    2. +3
      21 February 2013 16: 05
      Footcloths are much more convenient and practical than socks.


      Are you in them now?
      1. AK-47
        +3
        21 February 2013 17: 25
        Quote: Spade
        Are you in them now?

        No, but when I wear boots (fishing, mushrooms, in the country in slushy weather) exclusively in them. Yes, even in boots in winter, when necessary.
        Soft flannel, if wound correctly, leg like a chrysalis, beauties.

        Quote: ultra
        Well, boots are only good for parades!

        You are mistaken, you never wore them. The boots psychologically tighten, give a sense of confidence and security. The boots are beautiful.
        1. 0
          22 February 2013 20: 38
          Quote: AK-47
          The boots psychologically tighten, give a sense of confidence and security. The boots are beautiful.

          In-in, I wrote FOR PARADES! negative And I wore boots! 30.10.1984/17.01.1987/XNUMX - XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX service in the PV of the KGB of the USSR! hi
      2. black_eagle
        +5
        21 February 2013 17: 47
        Quote: Spade
        Are you in them now?

        Useless! I already argued! Some comrades would return the three-ruler! (SchA will begin, but what a good thing! A powerful cartridge, firing accuracy, a trihedral bayonet can be added, etc.) Everything has its time! If you are used to living off-road, in conditions of -40 on the street -20 in the barracks, then it’s normal, and there’s nothing to blame for the authorities ourselves, and until we understand this, nobody will change anything for us!
        1. +2
          21 February 2013 18: 47
          It seems yes, it's useless.
      3. +2
        21 February 2013 20: 40
        After an urgent one at all "dachas, vegetable gardens, construction sites" only in kerzachs with footcloths. For work in our climatic conditions I have not "found" better footwear in 40 years. Another question, now they don't make real tarpaulin boots. Real summer ones with "single" vamp, winter double-layer vamp. Assembled on brass nails with a pump-action leather inner sole. Now they make boots with glue and steel nails. Enough for two months. Then they inevitably fall apart.
      4. bask
        +2
        22 February 2013 20: 47
        Quote: Spade
        Are you in them now?

        I’ll always go on a hunt, daredevils, and footcloths. I’m old, still a Soviet overcoat, soldier’s. I walk 20-30 cells a day, and my legs do not have time and I have never froze. Of course the boots are prettier, but boots with footcloths more effective ..
    3. +1
      22 February 2013 14: 35
      In the 97, he picked out from one of his colleagues the boots of the GDR army, which he brought after the conclusion of the GBV! Ohrenitelnaya Veshch! And the quality of workmanship and materials! Looks like cropped infantry cropped boots! So the Bundeswehr field boots came across - berets silently smoke in the corner!
      1. Kir
        0
        22 February 2013 14: 53
        That's it! Made not in some states, but for real warriors - the Bundeswehr, by the way, I saw one in the subway several times, it was probably just lucky! in the form of the Bundeswehr, as if I’m even at a loss to name what kind of clothing is not that long, or rather a long jacket is not that ......, well, in short, you can immediately see it wisely soundly in German, when you sit down completely covered as the "BACK" IS LONGER (at least so visually defined) MORE THAN 20CM.! By the way, the Bundes took the boots who understands and not the raspontovka, it seems like all of them have a tongue completely made-boots with lacing!
        1. +1
          22 February 2013 16: 52
          Well, in general, yes. Here are field boots from 2005. It is considered not the best option: the 2000s are better. As for the jacket, I don't even know: the described cut is most likely the so-called. "fishtail" Most likely Austrian. So it can be Yusovskaya, the Germans did not like such.
          1. Kir
            0
            22 February 2013 16: 59
            The jacket is 100% Bundes, at least on the stripes flag + coat of arms, unless of course the carrier himself did not alter this. Speaking of shoes, my acquaintance wanted to order the spotty Romelivsky ones through one, the prices are just tin, but the quality seems to be Polish Mr.
            1. 0
              22 February 2013 19: 04
              Ordering shoes on the Internet - lottery. I have such a sad experience - I ordered Bundeswehr mountain boots. Miltec is certainly not a quality standard. but this ..... spat and "went broke" - bought Haix a blessing, there was an opportunity to try on. In addition, the most famous models are actively forged.
              1. Kir
                0
                22 February 2013 19: 52
                Yes, not off the net, I myself saw the one who brought the exo equipment supposedly from the warehouses more than once. And about the Romel’s, maybe you didn’t understand or misunderstood, supposedly relatives of some sort 193 ..., well, in general, the adventure period when the allies are there ....., so it seems like antiques however.
  26. +4
    21 February 2013 11: 10
    To leave footcloths but also to allow socks (it was forbidden when I served). And there’s nothing better than a tunic + breeches. In winter, p / w in summer, cotton.
  27. fenix57
    +1
    21 February 2013 11: 20



    rpek32 s











    rpek32 RUSSIA will still show itself, and will be able to protect no worse than the BROTHER. hi
  28. +8
    21 February 2013 11: 38
    Quote: Vladimirets
    if quality materials were used. For example, the same socks. They don’t wear footcloths in the fleet


    Yeah, a great idea ... if high-quality materials are used, then, presumably, the dirt "knee-deep" will be ashamed and will sink to the level of "ankle-deep"? As a "professional infantry" I can say that boots, both yuft and rubber, with a set of footcloths in a soldier's "diet" must be mandatory. If we want to have these fighters combat-ready, and not limping in blood on their legs.
    Each kind of troops (services) has its own specifics and therefore, with our territorial scope, there cannot be a complete uniformization of form.
    ______________________________
    Regarding Velcro and lightning, I immediately said that this is complete crap.
    1. 0
      22 February 2013 16: 19
      Hello infantry! About a set of boots to the very point! We have enough dampness in our area, no skin will survive, and elastic bands with a replaceable stocking would be welcome! As for the zippers, let me disagree - there is a set of the Swedish form M 90, there are all pockets, the fastener of the jacket and trousers with large zippers, duplicated by buttons. I wear the truth recently, but I did not notice any particular inconvenience.

      M90- pocket view
  29. +7
    21 February 2013 11: 40
    However, back in January, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu ordered the Russian Armed Forces to be completely rid of such a historical relic as footcloths, which have been used in the army since the 1812 of the year. Then the minister urged everyone to "think in other categories."

    Of course, Sergei Kuzhugetovich knows better from the ministerial hillock, but it seems to me that the uniform for military personnel should be, first of all, comfortable and functional in any conditions, and only worry about survivals is the last thing. Socks are of course a convenient thing to say, I have nothing to say, and I myself recently bought myself "Bundeswehr" socks, but I am now a civilian man and I do not need to do combat training every day. However, remembering my army routine, I will say without coquetry, it was more comfortable in footcloths.
  30. Mopnex133
    +9
    21 February 2013 13: 11
    Afghan - and cheap, and comfortable, and warm, and beautiful!
    And footcloths are the best that is still in the army.
    He wore footcloths, I wear and will wear, no matter what. Whoever disagrees with me, try to defend at least an outfit in socks. And then how will the legs smell?
    1. Axel
      +4
      21 February 2013 14: 12
      Quote: Mopnex133
      Afghan - and cheap, and comfortable, and warm, and beautiful!

      Perhaps the most successful form is comfortable cut
    2. black_eagle
      -1
      21 February 2013 18: 07
      Quote: Mopnex133
      And then how will the legs smell?

      Do not forget to wash the legs!
      Quote: Mopnex133
      try to defend at least an outfit in socks

      You know, when I go to work at 6,00, I put on my socks, and at 19,00 I come off from work, I’m all shod all the time, in winter, it’s essential in winter shoes, and you know, when I get home, flies don’t fall!
      1. Axel
        +2
        21 February 2013 20: 00
        Quote: black_eagle
        And then how will the legs smell?

        And then how will the legs smell?
        Yes, not how for these purposes insoles with cream impregnation, etc.
        I drag a Shtatovskiy suit for marines to fishing, so he is impregnated with insects, not to mention shoes that are impregnated with fungus and insoles were in the kit.
        1. AndreyAB
          +1
          22 February 2013 06: 04
          Well, fishing, insoles - then of course, but the peas, the lack of water and the base is 100 kilometers away and everything is on foot, and then I’ll look at your Shtatovskie shoes and foul-smelling legs, warrior and fishing things are different.
    3. 0
      22 February 2013 16: 56
      From 84 to 86 he wore hb marine corps. In my opinion, a very good shape. But it was hb, psh that was sewn somewhat differently.
      1. Kir
        0
        22 February 2013 17: 05
        Saygon66 and on occasion you didn’t come across marine boots. whoever saw and tried just said ++++ !!!, even though the legs can’t be dry in water, yes, plus the fact that the back is a Titan sock !!!, one minus requires careful selection, otherwise shoes like boots are only more solid and with bells and whistles.
        1. 0
          22 February 2013 19: 20
          Conscripts in Baltiysk and Kaliningrad mostly wear standard boots: in the civilian trade, the "Combat" seems to be ... But I also ask around .... A titanium "toe" - I don't even know ...
    4. Marek Rozny
      +3
      23 February 2013 18: 54
      We took the best from the Soviet form and from the American. In the end, this is what happened.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        23 February 2013 19: 13
        If you open the photo in a separate window, you can see better details.
        1. 0
          26 February 2013 17: 53
          But in the first photo I see the "beloved" standard AK pouch. If you use it with RPS - it is still possible, then when hanging on a belt it is extremely inconvenient! Getting to shops with a bulletproof vest is difficult. The fighter on the far right seems to have a vest with a MOLLE system, but what about the rest?
      2. phantom359
        +1
        24 February 2013 00: 49
        Marek roznyNothing really happened.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +2
          24 February 2013 10: 36
          unfortunately, the color rendition in the photographs is different and one gets the feeling that these are different types of shapes - in fact, this is the same uniform. the cut generally resembles the Soviet Afghan, but significant various changes have been made.
          Rip-stop fabric. Camouflage - a pixel a la American acupat, but in a different color scheme (the so-called "kaz.akupat") - perfect for the steppe. The location of the shoulder straps remained traditional, but they abandoned the metal fittings for the shoulder straps on the field uniform - the shoulder straps have printed signs (in Russia, they changed the location of the shoulder straps, since the stars on them, they say, clung to the machine belt, etc.).
          in addition, a new belt was introduced (such as NATO-vsky). Bertsa instead of boots entered about 15 years ago. Boots are only used in parades. The tongue of the berets is deaf, water in the area of ​​the lacing can not get into the boot.
          The unloading color is deliberately different from the camouflage color in order to break the silhouette. Fastening with buttons, and refused from zippers and Velcro. Velcro can be used only for stripes "Kazakstan", "blood type".
          Kevlar helmets of the PASGT type, Belarusian optics are gradually being installed on all machines. Also introduced tactical points, balaclavas with three slots (though this is not yet in all parts). Even the Soviet flask did not stand aside. Now more and more widespread is the "fur" cover a la NATO for it.
          The form is very strong, non-marking, pleasant to the touch, comfortable. The winter kit is warm. There were also mixed Soviet and NATO lotions.
          1. 0
            26 February 2013 17: 44
            That's because people can when they want! And if the guys from the last photo are not an elite part, then in general Respect MO Resp, Kazakhstan!
          2. Jugovostok
            0
            4 March 2013 18: 35
            To be more precise, Kevlar helmets are Croatian copies of the German helmet M826, manufactured by Sestan Busch.
      3. +1
        24 February 2013 19: 57
        Not fragile guys!
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          25 February 2013 13: 31
          Steps themselves are usually stocky. In addition, everyone is pumped up in the army. Plus, military enlistment offices carefully select recruits in the army - on average, only 10% of the total number of persons liable for military service are recruited into the army. There are strict restrictions on health, growth (at least 165 cm, in contrast to the Soviet parameters, where the minimum was lower - 155 cm) and even moral character. In short, if you want to join the army, you have to try very hard)
          The army is only 35-40% composed of conscripts. The remaining cadres of ordinary and sergeant staff are recruited from contractors.

          In the second photo - peacekeeping soldiers who returned from Iraq - this can be seen in the relevant Kazakhstani and Iraqi medals.
          1. Jugovostok
            0
            4 March 2013 18: 44
            Do not tell me)) After my graduation, three were called from my group, and only one of them fell under your description. The other two were goners with underweight and growth - one had 165, the other had 160 cm. The most interesting thing was that the healthiest guys stayed at home - they were somehow not interested in them.
  31. black_eagle
    0
    21 February 2013 13: 13
    Have you seen the Ukrainian new? I did not find it in net, but it's something !!!! Pants in boots are not tucked in !!! How to walk in the snow ??? The jacket is not tucked in with a belt, again it’s blowing tightly in the field, I won’t tell you about the little things, because I don’t know yet, but the slanting pocket on the sleeve is a kapets, as if in a straight sewn one, it was a huge problem to get in !!!
    1. Axel
      +1
      21 February 2013 14: 21
      Quote: black_eagle
      I did not find it in net, but it's something !!!!

      I found






      Figure broken pixel (number) color will depend on the terrain
      The form is being tested
      Who cares http://ak-inzt.net/forces/1442-article7962
      1. black_eagle
        0
        21 February 2013 15: 16
        No, not it, although it may look beautiful in the photo, in short, I thought that they had driven the partisans and put on the obsolete well-worn Bundeswehr uniform
        1. phantom359
          0
          23 February 2013 01: 11
          black_eagle, If brought to mind - the normal form will turn out. Now they are studying the reviews of the "testers". They punched it in Ostra, in the training of the ground forces. Our developers P1G tac and it seems like the Norwegians had a hand. According to the reviews, the guys are serious.
      2. +2
        22 February 2013 00: 55
        Quote: Axel
        The form is being tested

        Trousers (uppermost ones) "copied" from the old American army ones. True, they did not slightly simplify. I myself went through seven taiga "fives" in the real Amerikos. And they are still in excellent condition. A friend bought a copy in the spec. store. Enough for half of the trip. Crawled, burnt, torn. The fabric is different; while simplifying the cut, important power elements were removed. Outwardly, it turned out very similar, but cannot be used seriously. Those in the picture are the same "simplified" ones.
        Well, the pocket on the shins of the trousers is "strong"! The one who came up with this - he himself tried to carry something in such a pocket during the transition? And if not on the asphalt, but on the intersection, through the bushes, "birch". A completely non-functional and even harmful element. IMHO. Yes, and these puffs on my knees - for two days a good sock in the woods. IMHO. We must seriously test this form.
        1. 0
          22 February 2013 01: 15
          Quote: ikrut
          Well, the pocket on the shins of the trousers is "strong"! The one who came up with this - he himself tried to carry something in such a pocket during the transition?


          They came up with the Americans. Individual dressing bags are not particularly heavy pieces, they will not interfere.
          Puffs on the knees so that the knee pads do not hang out, otherwise they will not be able to fulfill their function. Yes, and it will be uncomfortable to wear.
      3. AndreyAB
        0
        22 February 2013 06: 08
        And tight-fitting trousers are so conceived, in general, in theory, they should be a bag, but like pulls on a slide, but it hurts a lot of lotions, which, when used intensively, open all the doors and locks and fly like naked, you can always sew a button, but you can’t change the zipper quickly on outerwear.
      4. pan grizian
        0
        22 June 2013 15: 56
        This form is already being issued, or while in the project Yes, and some kind of jacket
  32. erg
    +5
    21 February 2013 13: 18
    From the history of the matter. The footbags or onuchi, as they used to be called, were used until 1812, around the time of the Potemkin uniform, which provided for the wearing of boots. We would call them half boots now. in those days they were also called boots. From 1801 to 1807, the main shoes were boots. From about 1807 to 1833 they returned to the boats again. Both footcloths and stockings were used. In the summer it was recommended to use footcloths. In winter, put on stockings over the footcloths. Recommendations were written, as a rule, by army commanders, for example, Bagration. It was not recommended to use woolen footcloths in winter, only linen ones and to grease them or their legs with fat. There were proposals to use boots in the summer and boots in the winter. Interestingly, bast shoes and other folk shoes were widely used. In the years 1813-14, the military department even carried out centralized procurement of bast shoes and raw materials for their production. In general, the debate about the benefits of footcloths or stockings (socks), as well as boots against boots, continued until the 1917 revolution. Then it was not resolved.
  33. Axel
    +5
    21 February 2013 13: 24
    You just can’t do with one form (there must be at least three sets)
    1) Combat tactical (military training ground) composition 65% polyester35% cotton
    2) Field suit (for wearing inside the part of the outfits and TSP) composition 50% polyester 50% cotton
    3) Sports suit (for sports activities)
    We live in the 21st century, we build boats with titanium, if there is no money for the form
    Or fabric technology?
  34. +1
    21 February 2013 13: 43
    And I have such a kit here. I took a picture right now, though I don’t know where my wife put it. It says inside that the kit is made for specialists. And the pants and jacket are all natural fur, the jacket has a smooth leather pocket under the PM. It's just a class. not military, but I can tell you that this kit is a bit heavy, but -25 without tension with a gale-force wind together. 10 hours without much movement when fishing at such temperatures, agree indicator. Fur is fur !!!
  35. zmey
    +7
    21 February 2013 14: 07
    Leave footcloths in the army + allow socks to purchase on their own.
    What socks will withstand daily washing + socks every day for a month ??? (20 pairs of socks for 12 months is 1,6 pairs a month !!!! who invented this, let him wear and wash socks, and on his Hard experience he will be convinced how "smart and advanced" he is)
    Very apt expression "Cabbage"! Eight layers !!! Today -60, and tomorrow -35 and where to store all this mountain of uniforms until the next -60 C ???? How large should a company storehouse be? Or give everything to the soldiers at once and let them keep them in the bedside tables ???
    Would shove developers and those officials from the Ministry of Defense who approved this form in the same form at -40 C + armor, + weapons and ammunition, + ammunition and through snow 1,5 m deep or in knee-deep mud, with setting up a camp / life in the field , 3-4 months so and forcibly give them 6,5 pairs of socks. And to drive these people in full, day and night, like ordinary soldiers, regardless of years and ranks. Let them think about their "brilliant thoughts and vision" of the field uniform for the army on their own skin.
    By the way, Peter 1 somehow got stuck on the supplier in this way, an economical supplier crawled on his knees to the king after 1 week !!!
    1. Axel
      +4
      21 February 2013 14: 35
      Quote: zmey
      Leave footcloths in the army + allow socks to purchase on your own

      Can be replaced with such liners for the third year I use with army boots, my leg is warm and dry
  36. +1
    21 February 2013 14: 07
    So I knew that with the form again nonsense will turn out wassat
    apparently all the same Chinese sewed, which sculpted uniforms for the police. lol
    No, not soon the army will be changed into a new uniform. Maybe closer to the election, some progress will be made wink
  37. +2
    21 February 2013 14: 56
    Do not know. I was comfortable in the old tunic and in PS. When I went to Afghanistan. She certainly was cool. But the previous one is far from bad. The quality of the PN was what officers now lack. Footcloths over socks in the winter is the most that. And in the summer you don’t need nafig socks - just footcloths just right. Something like this.

    Do not know. I was comfortable in the old tunic and in PS. When I went to Afghanistan. She certainly was cool. But the previous one is far from bad. The quality of the PN was what officers now lack. Footcloths over socks in the winter is the most that. And in the summer you don’t need nafig socks - just footcloths just right. Something like this.
  38. +1
    21 February 2013 15: 10
    I would have such a form in due time :) I would have remained a cricket :))
  39. pantech15
    +2
    21 February 2013 16: 07
    that’s honestly for .... whether I changed clothes 14 times with this new uniform for 5 years of service, but I still live in rented apartments, and since this year I have been putting together my old uniform, and then suddenly they decide again that epaulets ... I look more powerful in general, for the fact that you can sit in the headquarters only after units with soldiers and then there will be no such arguments in favor of a shoulder strap on the chest and sleeve, saying that with a flying bronze the rank is not visible or that footcloths are a relic of the past, especially after a winter march
  40. zoltan212
    0
    21 February 2013 17: 16
    prior to the development of the form, it was necessary to conduct a survey of military-education personnel on their personal account! everyone would write complaints and wishes for a military uniform .....
  41. Horus Heresy
    0
    21 February 2013 18: 02
    When will the disputes around this wretched form end? laughing
    No comments!
    1. 0
      21 February 2013 18: 51
      This is VV, as I understand it
    2. alkach555
      0
      21 February 2013 19: 51
      Beauties, do not take your eyes off !! Ugly, but warm. Sheepskin peeps out.
  42. Cpa
    +5
    21 February 2013 18: 06
    Where did the doctors look? The first layer should be from hb jersey, the soldiers will kill the creatures! The outer one will be made of non-combustible materials. In combat conditions, all this plastic will stick to the soldier and melt! The gloves should be three-fingered, how are they going to shoot? Shoes should be with a deaf tongue .
    For car crews - a jumpsuit made of non-combustible material, with a loop or fastener for the halyard (evacuation of the wounded). On the knees and elbows are pockets for rigid inserts. Is there no belt available? How to attach a shovel, gas mask, flask? The soldier will bend and all this cabbage will be on his head .
    1. Mr. Truth
      +4
      21 February 2013 18: 30
      Cpa,
      100 pounds of consent
    2. 0
      21 February 2013 18: 50
      See what your shirt is made of. You are waiting for the opening.
      1. Mr. Truth
        +2
        21 February 2013 18: 59
        I'm torso naked.
    3. Axel
      0
      21 February 2013 19: 51
      Quote: KPA
      Outdoor of non-combustible materials.

      ACU Fire Resistant Defender M FRACU Coat with NIR Technology
  43. Horus Heresy
    0
    21 February 2013 18: 14
    Doctors themselves need doctors laughing
  44. Mr. Truth
    +1
    21 February 2013 18: 33
    Oh, how vainly copy this puff from the Americans. Expensively and little applied to our conditions. I do not believe that a soldier will be in several layers, and even a plus in the BZK and BZ is convenient.

    By the way, the coloring remained the most miserable of EMR, there were a couple of better options.
    1. Horus Heresy
      -1
      21 February 2013 18: 46
      It is not in vain that the American puff is copied! It is practical and just adapted to our conditions !!!
      For example, I happened to vilify some things while hunting in Alaska wink
      I would like to remind that the equipment in the USA is developed and manufactured by entire SCIENTIFIC CENTERS!
      In short - Made in the USA!
  45. georg737577
    +3
    21 February 2013 19: 11
    A high-quality, functional and "wearable" form, by definition, cannot be cheap - and should not. Let the figures be announced, what is the planned price in dollar terms for one set of uniforms. Then let's compare this figure with the German and American ones. Everything will fall into place ... One geek from the Russian Ministry of Defense said in a private conversation about complaints from servicemen about poor-quality uniforms like this: - All the same, they will die in it ...
    1. 0
      21 February 2013 19: 14
      Already voiced. 45 combined arms, 190 - set for specialists. (thousand roubles)
      1. Mr. Truth
        0
        21 February 2013 21: 20
        Quote: Spade
        45 combined arms, 190 - set for specialists.

        Then fine.
  46. Kir
    +1
    21 February 2013 19: 51
    Hooray again, everything is the same and everything is the same, that's what is really interesting is why, as a standard, the same is again, it seems that someone was well paid, so someone would print to whom and how much! With regards to the same, if we ourselves are not able to "give birth" without help, well, then we would take the really warring countries as a quality standard: Germany, Austria and the like, so no! Those who exalt amers beyond measure should contact the centers that equip climbers, whose manufacturers are better? but of course the prices too! And what about sports equipment? By the way, with regards to materials, what is better old or new. I had a chance to intersect not with advertisers but with real specialists, and so that's the same TEP. just cheaper and more technologically advanced in comparison with cast renzin, I'm not talking about the best competently processed leather, and you shouldn't discount the economy the right shoes + clothes are a minus for "production" but a colossal plus for the "consumer", so do not it is necessary to hide behind an alleged concern for the good! Business and nothing personal! Here on the site the truth on another question asked the Professor. Why is he living in Germany at that time buying amer's knives? More models and cheaper! But this does not mean a better quality product !!!
    Now, with regards to heaters, the inhabitants of Central Asia, what did they wear, Huh? In wadded robes. and natural fur "works" in a larger temperature range, but it’s like it’s hot indoors in synthetics, but it’s like in the cold, if you stand still then ....., But on fur or wool, it’s not so hot indoors and not cold! Unless of course the thing is honestly done! And in general, it is necessary not only to sew but also to model clothes in specialized organizations, after all, we make the best spacesuits for space! And this one, in comparison with them, is not a "consumer goods" themselves?
  47. +4
    21 February 2013 20: 11
    I think that the constant debate about boots is most likely a debate about not being able and not willing to make normal shoes! Boots and footcloths are cheap and good - berets and socks are expensive and bad. Do not WANT to use good and high-quality materials for the MO form! And in general, everything related to modern military developments, including uniforms, is tied to the process, and not to the result. We will soon be designing tanks as Indians for 30 years.
    It is necessary to exclude MO from this process, where negative selection has been carried out for decades. To call out dozens of distinguished captains with combat experience and honest rewards from the units and give them orders to submit form samples in three months ... I certainly exaggerate, but judging by the fact that the pockets are small, those guys who deal with this problem do not even know the dimensions of the wearable equipment!
  48. 0
    21 February 2013 20: 17
    Nope. Someone would not say something, and a footcloth and AK are great things!
  49. Cyrus
    +1
    21 February 2013 21: 19
    25 BILLION spent dressing up, that's a boon! Imagine the amount of kickbacks, and writing off everything to Serdyukov, they offer to change clothes again! :)) All these "ideas" come from one head, and it still makes decisions. One gets the impression that they want to write off all the problems since 1998 as a scam with apartments. In terms of the composition of materials, the abundance of synthetics is alarming, except for the 100% liner.
  50. +1
    21 February 2013 22: 01
    Who was in the army: the footcloth fills the boot, but it hangs on the toe (the shape of the pattern, damn it, is not ideal). But in general; best the enemy of the good. Shoigu's advice - as the classic said "fly or crawl - the end is known ...." Taburetkin may be a thief (I didn't catch him by the hand), but he did what he was told to do.
    1. +1
      21 February 2013 22: 15
      Isn’t it easier to have normal shoes? Then nothing will need to be filled.
  51. ko88
    0
    21 February 2013 23: 47
    Again they want to make something out of "camouflage" feel
  52. +1
    22 February 2013 00: 11
    Crap! There is no one in the country to create a uniform. Ask the military what they need, and then cover, sew, believe. Just less synthetics. Boots with foot wraps are allowed. Our soldiers do not walk on asphalt and paving stones, not Europe. At parades, march at least in bast shoes to please your superiors!
  53. +2
    22 February 2013 00: 27
    I read and read and want to insert my 5 kopecks. In the debate between foot wraps and socks, opinions have been shared, but the majority speak positively about foot wraps. Socks are also convenient, in certain cases and of good quality. That is, there are adherents of one and the other. I would like to hear the disadvantages of foot wraps, besides nods to the west and talk about progress. Progress comes down to the fact that new materials have appeared? And their price? Do not forget that in the West the army is professional and small in number. And the Russian one? The American one is bigger, but! Look who sews ammunition, armor for her, who makes helmets, etc. And who for us? For them, this is a business, but for Russia it is a matter of combat effectiveness and security. The economic component is far from the last factor in waging war, and even taking into account national characteristics. The desire to make a business out of everything, i.e. to sell you even something that is completely unnecessary (of course, under the guise of progress), is this becoming fashionable in Russia too? We have different systems, different approaches, different conditions, and different people! I once wore a Soviet uniform, now I wear a NATO uniform... I liked ours better! Russia doesn’t need “cool and expensive” (or expensive, that’s why it’s cool), our credo is “cheap and cheerful”! There is no need to chase the West into their “field”, they are not doing better, but differently! Although, I won’t argue, some elements need to be copied (with your head, not blindly!) or just take an example. ...maybe chaotic, but somehow...
    1. +2
      22 February 2013 01: 06
      The army needs normal shoes. But normal shoes don’t need foot wraps.
    2. +1
      22 February 2013 01: 15
      Times change and we must change with them. Otherwise it turns out... earlier! And the grass is greener, and the sky is bluer, and the water is wetter.... If you don’t change, don’t create new things, don’t make mistakes and don’t start over and don’t achieve your goal, then this will not lead to anything good. Nowhere or anything.
      New materials, new equipment, devices, tactics, strategy, and changed people with different thoughts, views, judgments. We have no others. Whether we like it or not, this is how it is. However, this topic is for another.

      Boots - well-groomed, according to the season, in size, worn in correctly, laced correctly, with the right socks - yes, they fit anywhere.
      1. Kir
        -1
        22 February 2013 02: 36
        But you don’t need to talk nonsense about thoughts for the sake of everything, look at the entire history of philosophy and ideology, although in essence it’s the same thing, the circulation of the same thing just seems like “the wrapper changes,” and with regards to shoes, ask around not the company people, but real shoe makers, as I said earlier, I’ve crossed paths with them more than once. So everything is aimed at automation and surprise, well, of course, except for the piece, by the way, maybe it’s worth asking what materials and what technologies are they made from? Well, it’s interesting that no one has yet come up with something better than wooden nails! Besides, when will progressive shoes become available, huh? do not forget that in addition to the size there is also fullness, the shape of the heel, some people are more suitable for an English last, for others a Finnish one, etc., etc., as they say, you will count and shed a tear if, of course, you do it taking into account all of the above, the same will happen with outerwear, etc. etc., and as a result, it is necessary to either customize it for each soldier or dress it from scratch.
        1. rubber_duck
          0
          22 February 2013 17: 02
          Quote: Kir
          Just don’t talk nonsense about thoughts for the sake of everything, look at the entire history of philosophy and ideology, although in essence they are the same


          WHAT?!!
          1. Kir
            -1
            22 February 2013 17: 09
            What does WHAT mean? That is, what is the essence of dissatisfaction, or do you think that there are such significant differences between philosophy and ideology? That they should be considered each separately.
  54. s1н7т
    +1
    22 February 2013 10: 35
    25 billion were cut on “Tsifra”, now the same amount is spent on “Concept”, so this Bolloev is the richest man in the country, guess?! (This does not take into account the 7 billion cut at Olympstroy!)
    Shopipets, what's happening in the country!
    And people talk about the form laughing
  55. Alver
    -1
    22 February 2013 11: 33
    I welcome almost everyone - I read up to the strike players - I thought I was on a forum like World of Tanks laughing but I want to say, are you really so naive that you believe that the reindeer herder will organize the army - a person who, without serving a day, put on 4-star shoulder straps (in my opinion - a spit on real officers - if there are any left) you read on the fire department forums where did you get this miracle manager
    and brought the deputy
    I run 5 km with difficulty I pull myself up to age 3 with difficulty I’m not special forces, but I haven’t believed in fairy tales for a long time - that in the fire department they are controlled by unfinished tank crews and unflying pilots, and now in the army the foremen are half-educated - almost funny crying
  56. lucidlook
    +1
    22 February 2013 14: 02
    Damn, who do they take us for?!

    Many are expressing their concern that the new uniform, the so-called “concept”, is made of synthetic fabric, but here, most likely, we are talking about a lack of awareness among people who believe that the use of mixed fabrics with a cotton content of 65% and synthetics 35% does not allow the skin to “breathe”.

    Now let's look at the composition underwear:

    100% Polyester

    Af'ftar, don't walk like that anymore. No.
  57. user3970
    +4
    22 February 2013 14: 34
    He also served in the SA. Novaya Zemlya - Belushya Guba (Belushka) - Nagurskaya - Graham Bell Island (Franz Josef Land). Separate polar air defense radio engineering regiment... The climate, as you understand, is extreme. On Novaya Zemlya there is wind (-30, 35 and + wind). They called it different things - option 1, 2. 3. or blizzard 1, 2, 3. But the essence did not change. When the 3rd (the lightest) was announced, it was forbidden for privates and sergeants to leave the premises alone (they came out with their hands locked with each other, otherwise they could be carried away. Now, remembering, I laugh, coming to the regimental canteen (this is in Belushka), they poked hands to the causal place - warmed up the latter. laughing On Graham Bell (ZFI) it was more severe. There was no such wind, but frost, or rather not like that, but FROST - over - 5! But they served! Uniform: long johns (winter, summer), cotton wool, PSh, overcoat (where would we be without it, dear?), cap, cap, special hat (ears are longer than usual and overlapped one on top of the other), special tailoring (sweatshirt with a large fur-like collar, if raise the collar and fasten it, then cover it up to the top of the head + snot - a valve covering the neck, mouth, nose, black. Cow boots, foot wraps, felt boots. Those who performed external service were issued sheepskin coats made of chrome for the duration of external service - natural chrome on the outside, sheepskin on the inside , bulletproof and frost-proof and just as heavy-lifting. You slept wonderfully in it. You sit down, its floors rest on the ground and you sleep - the service is in progress. I don’t remember that during my service I died of frostbite. By the way + they fed us both in the regimental canteen and at the point WONDERFUL! The officers came to feed us.

    He also served in the SA. Novaya Zemlya - Belushya Guba (Belushka) - Nagurskaya - Graham Bell Island (Franz Josef Land). Separate polar air defense radio engineering regiment... The climate, as you understand, is extreme. On Novaya Zemlya there is wind (-30, 35 and + wind). They called it different things - option 1, 2. 3. or blizzard 1, 2, 3. But the essence did not change. When the 3rd (the lightest) was announced, it was forbidden for privates and sergeants to leave the premises alone (they came out with their hands locked together, otherwise they could be carried away. Now, remembering, I laugh, coming to the regimental canteen (this is in Belushka), they poked hands to the causal place - warmed up the latter. laughing On Graham Bell (ZFI) it was more severe. There was no such wind, but frost, or rather not like that, but FROST - over - 50! But they served! Uniform: long johns (winter, summer), cotton wool, PSh, overcoat (where would we be without it, dear?), cap, cap, special hat (ears are longer than usual and overlapped one on top of the other), special tailoring (sweatshirt with a large fur-like collar, if raise the collar and fasten it, then cover it up to the top of the head + snot - a valve covering the neck, mouth, nose, black. Cow boots, foot wraps, felt boots. Those who performed external service were issued sheepskin coats made of chrome for the duration of external service - natural chrome on the outside, sheepskin on the inside , bulletproof and frost-proof and just as heavy-lifting. You slept wonderfully in it. You sit down, its floors rest on the ground and you sleep - the service is in progress. I don’t remember that during my service I died from frostbite. By the way + they fed us both in the regimental canteen and at the point WONDERFUL! The officers came to feed us.
    1. psdf
      0
      23 February 2013 01: 47
      A sweatshirt before special tailoring is like a tractor before a tank)))
  58. Roman Vasilenko
    +6
    22 February 2013 15: 31
    I myself serve as a commander of a security department, a warrant officer. Everything that was bought for me, except for the helmet - the helmet was given to ShS-43, a steel helmet from 43 years old, but that’s me, and the soldier is wearing shit (digital). Everything is sad.
  59. +6
    22 February 2013 16: 31
    I didn’t see felt boots in the new uniform, in good frost in boots, boots, away from the stove-battery, in a day the whole army will have a kirdyk and amputation of limbs, and I wonder who at the front will replace the soldier’s torn socks. And instead of foot wraps, you can wrap any rag only if in peacetime time to get used to socks, young soldiers will not be able to do this.
  60. 0
    27 February 2013 21: 41
    Soldiers in the survey spoke about the impracticality of socks, which would have to be issued 20 pairs a year, and also about bruised feet. ..... Then the minister called on everyone to “think in other categories”


    We know these “categories” - one of the sock manufacturers made a big deal. And now footcloths have been declared enemies of the people.
    And the dialogue with the army took on the character of an anecdote:
    "Mr. Minister, I knocked my legs down!
    “And you think in other categories!!!”
  61. +2
    10 March 2013 02: 17
    Military uniforms continue to be the focus of Russian media. The passions for the “Digital” introduced into the army under former Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov had not yet subsided when information appeared about claims to the new field uniform “from Shoigu.”

    ... yes, we shouted and calmed down ... I haven’t heard good reviews about the new form ...
    I feel sorry for the guys on whom they are testing this. .!
  62. Vinogradov
    +2
    15 March 2013 21: 50
    And I like the shape!
  63. +2
    24 March 2013 09: 50
    But for some reason, other usual forms of clothing are not visible: formal, casual. Or everyone in work clothes. After all, then both the general and the marshal are obliged to be in it.
  64. +1
    27 March 2013 22: 31
    The biggest complaint about military uniforms is its availability for military personnel: both in size and in nomenclature... There is always sewing, altering, buying, changing, washing, laundering,... The trouble, in short... sad
  65. smershspy
    +3
    April 24 2013 14: 36
    Quote: yashka12007
    I didn’t see felt boots in the new uniform, in good frost in boots, boots, away from the stove-battery, in a day the whole army will have a kirdyk and amputation of limbs, and I wonder who at the front will replace the soldier’s torn socks. And instead of foot wraps, you can wrap any rag only if in peacetime time to get used to socks, young soldiers will not be able to do this.


    Absolutely agree! It is necessary to create a uniform that is not just beautiful, but also one that will save the life of a soldier in different weather conditions and combat situations! Too much "GOWMUR" in this form!
  66. smershspy
    +4
    7 May 2013 13: 16
    Quote: Rusich
    It was a perfect shape. Warm practical 100% cotton without synthetics with buttons. I unfastened them like I had already professionally mastered it when FIRING, I took one set home to -45 in one T-shirt, of course you have to tighten your belt with it! And now you can’t find her anymore ((((officers and soldiers of military service are trying to find her so that the service would not be DIFFICULT AND JOY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FLORA IS SAME VERTICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    I now have two sets: “vertical” and “reed”! Great shape!
  67. pan grizian
    0
    22 June 2013 15: 54
    Shoigu is removing the footcloths in vain. A very practical thing. Even now, if I happen to walk outside the city in felt boots, I put on foot wraps and not socks
  68. eligos
    0
    28 June 2013 11: 45
    I read above about airsoft players and those who fought for many years. Of course, I have no such experience; I did not take part in hostilities.
    But such a moment - the form is being developed for conscripts. And emergency service is not machine guns and tactics, but 90% of work - parks, weeding, construction sites, etc. I’ll make a reservation right away - I served in a motorized rifle brigade, in the artillery. Apart from Center 2011, there were no exercises. And in everyday wear... We literally had a fight with officers over flora) I think this says something

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