If you really want something new: the original Larsen-Winteross gun

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If you really want something new: the original Larsen-Winteross gun
The bolt box of a shotgun designed by Larsen-Winteross. It is difficult to imagine a more intricate device, especially knowing that the system for feeding cartridges using the “Henry bracket” has been known since 1860. But... this is how its creators at once bypassed all the patents of Spencer, Henry, Winchester, Merlin, Borgess, Schneider and Bollard. Of course, this was an achievement in the field of ingenuity, but... such guns (even outwardly very impressive!) did not become widespread. Photo by A. Dobress


– See, you also want something new.
- Of course, new, new army, new spirit...

Dialogue from the film "Red Square".
First episode: “Commissioner Amelin”

stories about weapons. As they say, when you really want something, anything is possible. Or almost everything. Especially when you want something new and something that hasn’t happened yet. But... it’s just very, very difficult to come up with something completely new. And many follow the path of minor improvements to the old, so that this old becomes at least a little newer.



There are countless variants of weapons in which everything new consists of a new mount for the revolver barrel with a drum or a new fuse, or this is a completely new magazine for the rifle, but the barrel and bolt were taken from somewhere.

But it also happens that, despite all the similarities with something previously known, the novelty of the new design is still obvious. Another thing is how useful this novelty is, how technologically advanced, ergonomic it is and, simply put, convenient in all respects.

And today we will have a story about one such example of a handgun - the Norwegian Larsen-Winteross gun.

This is a shotgun manufactured in Liege and has a caliber of 16,4 mm. From a distance, it can easily be mistaken for a Winchester, since this model is a gun with a bolt that is controlled by a lever, which is also a trigger guard, that is, simply put, a “Henry guard.” The walnut stock has a semi-pistol grip with ribbed rifling. The arrow-shaped safety is located on the left side of the bolt housing. Then its right side is completely given over to... the reloading mechanism!

This amazing weapon was patented (patent no. 334) in 244 and bears two marks from the Liège test bench.

The double name means that it was invented by two designers, both of Swedish origin - August Lefredius Larsen and Klaas Erik Winteross.


A rifle manufactured by Larsen's father, Hans Larsen and Sons. What we have in front of us is a typical rifle with an external hammer, the bolt of which is controlled by a trigger lever. The Cherrin rifles, mod. 1865, Comblenas, arr. 1871, and Francotta and Peabody. Photo by A. Dobress

In the 1875 edition of Sveriges Olh Norges Stats Kalender we find August Lefredius Larsen. It is reported that he was the son of the famous Norwegian gunsmith Hans Larsen, who had two shops and a workshop in Drammen and Oslo in Norway, which at that time was part of the United Kingdom of Sweden and Norway, and a firm in Belgium - Hans Larsen and Sons. It was founded in 1877 and produced single-shot rifles with a bolt operated by a "Henry brace" and a side lever located on the right side of the receiver. In 1882 the company changed its name to Larsen & Co. Rifles and kept it until 1887.


This is how the lever mechanism of the Hans Larsen and Sons rifle operated. Photo by A. Dobress


And this is the “British patent” stamp on the bolt box of this rifle... Photo by A. Dobress

As for his son Larsen Jr., he served in the Trondheim brigade with the rank of second lieutenant, and after retiring, he began developing weapons independently together with Klaas Erik Winteross from Stockholm. From 1883 to 1886, they successively received patents for the gun they designed with an under-barrel magazine and Henry bracket, both in Europe and in the USA, which provided them with complete priority.


Well, this is exactly the Larsen-Winteross gun. Left view. Photo by A. Dobress

Thus, on December 29, 1883, August L. Larsen and Klaas E. Winteross received British patent No. 5935 for a shotgun with a lever-operated bolt. On October 23, 1884, they were issued German patent No. 29234 for the same design. They were followed by US Patent No. 334,244, dated January 12, 1886.

The gun had a tubular magazine with four rounds. The bolt contains a linearly acting firing pin driven by a spiral mainspring. The rear of the firing pin protrudes from the bolt and has two tabs that can be pulled to engage the firing pin lock as a safety.


Diagram of the Larsen-Winteross shotgun mechanism from a British patent of 1884


Diagram of the mechanism of the Larsen-Winteross shotgun from an American patent of 1886


Diagram of the operation of the Larsen-Winteross mechanism from an American patent of 1886. The bolt is pulled back, the feed tray for the next cartridge is on the feed line, the empty cartridge case is pushed out by a new cartridge...

The bolt is moved using a lever mechanism, which is not located inside the bolt box, as in Winchester, Borgess, and others like them, but outside on the right side, and it is partially protected by a cover.

Some authorities claim that John Browning's Model 1887 Winchester lever-action shotgun was the first successful Henry-brace repeating shotgun, but the design predates Browning's M1887 Winchester by a full three years.

This is how two hot Swedish-Norwegian guys overtook the American-Belgian Mormon designer, who then had to develop his gun with an eye on their weapons!


Diagram of a lever system for controlling the rectilinear movement of the bolt of a Larsen-Winteross shotgun from an American patent of 1886

Moreover, the result was a truly international weapon, developed by two men (one from Norway, the other, most likely, Swede) in Belgium, manufactured by a Norwegian company in Liege using components made in Germany, and then sold by a dealer in Germany.


View of the gun on the left. The semi-pistol grip and arrow-shaped safety are clearly visible. Photo by A. Dobress


The operation of the lever mechanism of the Larsen-Winteross shotgun: the Henry bracket goes down, the system of levers, covered with a sector plate, begins to move and opens the bolt. Photo by A. Dobress


The same action, but only viewed from the right. Don't be surprised that the window for ejecting cartridges is not visible. The spent cartridge case on this gun is ejected upward, and here we see an original solution: the spent cartridge case is pushed by the next cartridge on the tray. Photo by A. Dobress


The window for loading cartridges into the magazine is open, and the gun can be loaded. Photo by A. Dobress


Loading window in closed position. Photo by A. Dobress


The butt and fore-end of the gun were made of beautiful walnut wood. Photo by A. Dobress


Side shield with the branded inscription “Larsen-Winteross. Belgium". Photo by A. Dobress

Today it is known that at least three such guns have survived to this day: one is in the United States, one in Sweden and one in Australia. Moreover, the specimen in Sweden has a 61 cm long barrel with straight rifling. This is another original feature that distinguishes this gun from other shotguns. It was impossible to fire a bullet from this gun, as even the inscription on the barrel warned about. But at that time, for some reason, it was believed that straight cutting of the barrel increased the accuracy of shot shooting. Why they decided this and what tests were carried out to prove this is unknown.

Theoretically, this is possible, but only if the pellets match the size of the rifling, that is, they fall into them and along them and move. But if they are larger or smaller, nothing like this can happen even in principle. But... someone decided so, someone wrote or said about it, and the result was such a completely unusual rifled shotgun with a very original, one might say, unique bolt drive!
23 comments
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  1. +7
    6 July 2024 05: 53
    Review of an interesting gun; I personally had previously only seen information about it in reference books. I'm seeing photographs for the first time.
    Thank you, comrades, have a good day and success in your endeavors!!!
  2. +5
    6 July 2024 06: 23
    But at that time, for some reason, it was believed that straight cutting of the barrel increases the accuracy of shot shooting
    Apart from the disadvantages of direct threading of the barrel, I don’t see anything. This includes the uneven distribution of pressure of the powder gases inside the barrel, which does not make shooting accurate, and the lack of obturation, which reduces the firing range, and the deformation of the shot inside the barrel due to rifling, which leads to air resistance, and again, a decrease in range. Well, how to clean such a weapon without using strong curse words? wink
    1. +3
      6 July 2024 06: 47
      Well, how to clean such a weapon without using strong curse words?
      Nevertheless, people rushed to buy smooth-bore rifled ones, a paradox. There were tests about whether they had a positive effect or not - but they were banned as rifled ones.
      1. +3
        6 July 2024 06: 51
        they were banned as rifled
        Perhaps they are afraid of using unconventional destructive elements in them. I don't see any other explanation
      2. +6
        6 July 2024 09: 46
        Quote: your1970
        Nevertheless, people rushed to buy smooth-bore rifles with a paradox
        Yes, whatever you give our people, they will buy it all.

        I can tell you from experience... the paradox doesn’t affect shot at all, and it’s generally dangerous to use with buckshot. It might get into a wedge like in a choke, although the probability is less.
        With a bullet - naturally the bullet needs to be selected (belts, hardness of lead) for a specific paradox. Factory - you can at least go for a re-barrel. Only measurements of the bullet and gunpowder, and a slower gunpowder ala falcon is desirable.
        In general, it increases accuracy when shooting at 50-100 meters, but not particularly significantly - it all depends on the selection of the bullet. I can’t say for sure... but the STP is running smoothly, the accuracy is maybe 1,5 times less. But to say that you can shoot further and have more energy is nothing like that. Moreover, surprisingly, the smaller the caliber 20 + incl. 410 - the worse the paradox manifests itself.
        More gentle ones worsen the effect - and steeper ones - the risk of rupture of the barrel and the bullet falling off these very “riflings”. It also depends on the cutting itself - the best type is polygonal and its derivatives. But when rifled food was allowed after 5 years, fortunately no one needed this miracle lol Everyone started pumping up their patience wassat
        1. +6
          6 July 2024 13: 22
          With a bullet - naturally the bullet needs to be selected (belts, hardness of lead) for a specific paradox.

          There are special bullets for drilling "paradox", which have been successfully used for almost 150 years by hunters all over the world without any problems or "selections". And if you stick anything into the paradox, then the result will be appropriate.
          1. +3
            6 July 2024 15: 33
            I’ve been hunting since childhood... so there wasn’t much of anything factory-made... and my grandfather taught me to do everything myself... I hung shot and gunpowder on the scales, etc. and shot. Yes, and it’s somehow more interesting, it’s not the hunting that’s most important - but the process itself... this is how I handle my weapons... and I like to clean and lubricate, sort through, adjust, etc. - the hunt is short what soldier Even when I was in Chechnya... when there was nothing to do, I helped and trained the boys with weapons, among other things. Finally, when they gave me a commission, they weren’t in a hurry - they gave me a contract as an instructor.
            1. +1
              6 July 2024 20: 09
              There wasn't much factory stuff...

              "Factory" was, but buying cartridges was considered a kind of "gentry". They even poured the shot themselves. However, the "paradox" is a special case. Here "handicraft" is only harmful.
              1. +2
                6 July 2024 21: 09
                Quote from Frettaskyrandi
                Here “handicrafts” are only detrimental.

                I don’t argue that it’s buggy... you need to know and have hands not from the 5th point. Not one factory cartridge ever! I repeat! A hand-assembled and targeted one will never be inferior to a factory one and will always be better. I'm not even talking about high-precision... there's only reload. Do you think I’ve been shooting with a 1N7 with a KSVK for more than 34 years? wassat
                Quote from Frettaskyrandi
                but buying cartridges was considered a kind of “lordship”

                Not at all... I described the reasons above.... hi When every shot matters - when you want the best - do it yourself. This is not from a good life, among other things. And nothing has changed in this regard for hundreds of years. wassat The only people who shoot at the factory are those who “oh smari... just yesterday I bought a gun... well, you know, I paid for it, all the work... the license was issued within 24 hours... everything is great... now let’s shoot.”
                1. +2
                  6 July 2024 21: 50
                  A hand-assembled and targeted one will never be inferior to a factory one and will always be better.

                  This is a common misconception among ordinary people who do not have access to target cartridges.
                  1. 0
                    6 July 2024 21: 54
                    Quote from Frettaskyrandi
                    This is common among ordinary people who do not have access to target cartridges
                    Well, I'm a layman... laughing On the hunt, okay... although I will never buy factory-made wolf or, especially, boar buckshot or bullet - apparently you are lucky to write here lol For this I bow out - I don’t even want to argue... “Blessed is he who believes, he is warm in the world!” (With)
                    1. +3
                      6 July 2024 21: 58
                      although I will never buy factory-made wolf or, especially, boar buckshot or bullet

                      Free will!
                      With the amount of cartridges that I shot, if I had loaded them myself, I would have no time left for life.
                      1. +1
                        6 July 2024 22: 01
                        Well, I wouldn’t have enough paperwork either what
                        Z.Y. 2 years as a company sniper, mostly IEDs. 2 more KSVK/VSS/VAL and almost 2 instructors. Before Chechnya, 2nd... more than 2k shots from a tiger/bear. feel Apparently we are just communicating here for the first time. hi soldier
      3. -1
        6 July 2024 20: 14
        Quote: your1970
        ad-barreled with rifled paradox. There were tests about whether there was any positive effect or not

        This is a very niche weapon from the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries. An expedition rifle that allows you to shoot both shot and slug reasonably well while carrying one weapon instead of a shotgun and a rifle. During the times of horseback expeditions and black porters, it was justified.
        1. +1
          6 July 2024 22: 02
          This is a very niche weapon from the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries.
          - therefore in 2020-x Gunsmiths rushed to produce it and hunters rushed to buy it. And just a couple of years ago they were equated to rifled weapons and practically banned after changes to the Weapons Law.
          No matter how many times I look while hunting, there is a “paradox”, but there are no black porters in sight belay lol
          1. +1
            7 July 2024 00: 37
            Quote: your1970
            There is a “paradox”, but the black porters are not visible belay

            In the 1890s, in Africa, for which it was invented, it was different. Now there are no wild places left. But for the vehicle’s carrying capacity, a rifle and a shotgun are not essential
            1. 0
              7 July 2024 17: 20
              In the 1890s, in Africa, for which it was invented, it was different. Now there are no wild places left. But for the vehicle’s carrying capacity, a rifle and a shotgun are not essential
              Do you understand the difference in the Weapons Law between rifled and smoothbore?
              And here the smoothbore came closer to the rifled one - remaining trouble-free in terms of requirements.
              That's why they started snapping it up like hotcakes...
  3. +5
    6 July 2024 08: 41
    By and large, August L. Larsen did not develop anything. He simply made minor changes to the design of his father, the famous Norwegian gunsmith and sports shooter Hans Larsen (Bøssemaker Hans Larsen). Designer Eric Jorgensen is his student. Ironically, Larsen's rifle lost the competition to the Krag-Jorgensen rifle.
    1. +5
      6 July 2024 11: 22
      I reread my comment and realized that I expressed myself somewhat incorrectly in relation to August Larsen and Klaus Winterros. It would be more correct to say that they creatively used Hans Larsen's previous developments, compiling their own original design from several of his designs.
  4. +1
    6 July 2024 12: 49
    In general, not very on topic, but reading such reviews is a real pleasure. Vyacheslav hi
  5. +2
    6 July 2024 16: 23
    John Browning's Model 1887 Winchester lever-action shotgun was the first successful repeating shotgun operated by a Henry staple

    Type Lever Action Shotgun
    Place of origin USA
    Service History
    Used by Various law enforcement agencies and stagecoach companies
    History of production
    Designer John Browning
    Designed 1887
    Manufacturer Winchester Repeating Arms Company
    Produced 1887–1899[1]
    1901-1920 (model 1901)[1]
    Build number 64 (model 855); 1887 (model 13)[500]
    M1901 Variants
    Technical specifications
    Weight 8 lbs. (3,6 kg)
    Length 39 ¼" (997mm)
    Barrel length 20 inches (508 mm), 30 inches (762 mm)
    Caliber 12-gauge, 10-gauge
    Action Lever action
    Feed system 5 + 1 round tubular magazine
  6. 0
    7 July 2024 16: 04
    Straight cuts?
    Why not just a square/triangular bore? wassat
  7. 0
    7 July 2024 20: 10
    What are straight cuts for? They are not needed for fractions. Nothing came to mind except centering a cylindrical bullet of a smaller caliber... It would be nice to see the cut of the barrel bore, otherwise there is only confusion winked