The US Air Force's sixth-generation fighter may be a stillborn project

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The US Air Force's sixth-generation fighter may be a stillborn project

Alas, the United States is truly “on the verge of a big mess.” And according to all the canons of a detective story, such movements may begin that the whole weapons the world will be eating tons of popcorn watching this outstanding show.

What's the intrigue? The fact is that, due to very strange circumstances, the new sixth generation US Air Force fighter may turn out to be a stillborn project. Yes, that's it, no more and no less.



For years, the US Air Force has consistently maintained that its shrouded in secrecy program to develop the sixth-generation Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) fighter jet ensures that the Air Force can continue to dominate the skies into the mid-21st century and eventually replace its already impressive but the F-22 Raptor stealth fighters are somewhat expensive to operate (just a little bit).

Air Force officials have argued that NGAD, which is expected to cost $16 billion to develop, is being developed at an unprecedented rate. In 2020, the Air Force reported that at least one full-scale NGAD demonstrator had begun flight testing and would remain the service's top priority. The Air Force was expected to award a contract this year to Boeing or Lockheed-Martin to build at least 200 NGAD fighters, each expected to cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

Apparently, something went wrong, because some not entirely clear, very cautious statements began from people like Air Force Chief of Staff Daniel Allwin, who on June 14 was very cautious about the future of NGAD.

“Discussions are still ongoing and no decision has been made yet. "We're looking at a lot of very difficult options that we have to consider."

An ominous darkness swirled over the segment of the Pentagon where the headquarters and services of the US Air Force are located. The negativity was greatly added by the news that the Air Force leadership was about to announce layoffs. Allwin suggested that the service had found "a different way to develop capabilities" by not requiring a sixth-generation manned fighter, but by "building on" a fighter jet with drones Collaborative Combat Aircraft (CCA), originally intended to accompany NGAD in combat."

So right away: down with NGAD, leaving UAVs with vague capabilities?

It's possible that the Air Force's unexpectedly mournful tone regarding NGAD could be a political ploy designed to provoke Congress into providing additional funding. Indeed, services sometimes present unattractive results in the hope of prompting such costly interventions.

I must say - not without reason. There are plenty of examples of Congress stepping in to save programs or vehicles that were actually wanted out of service. You can remember on the go history A-10 Thunderbolt and the Littoral Combat Ship program. Although this will no longer save the Freedoms and Independences, even though three Niagaras have been given money.

But it's possible that real budget cuts, coupled with changes in how the Air Force views the utility, cost and longevity of fielding a sixth-generation stealth fighter, could ultimately doom NGAD.

Notably, the US Navy also recently announced that it is indefinitely postponing a sister program, NGAD (also called NGAD), aimed at developing a sixth-generation carrier-based jet fighter called the F/A-XX. This aircraft is also called Project2937 or Link Plummeria in some budget documents. It would replace the notable FA-18E/F Super Hornet aircraft, which will cease production in 2025.


Concept art of Boeing's F/A-XX stealth fighter. This jet is designed for deck operations on large aircraft carriers with an emphasis on air defense. fleet using long-range missiles.

Although the FA-XX contract is expected to go to the Big Three (Northrup Grumman, Lockheed-Martin and Boeing) this year, the Air Force announced in March that it would hold back two-thirds of the program's annual budget of 1,5. $XNUMX billion to focus on improving operational squadron readiness. This, you know, is on a budget and below the belt...

What was NGAD supposed to do?

The Air Force currently operates two stealth fighters: about 180 F-22A Raptors, which are optimized for air combat, and about 260 F-35A Lightning multi-role fighters, which are more focused on strike missions. More than 1000 more F-35A Lightnings are expected to follow.


The F-22A Raptor stealth fighter launched the AIM-9M Sidewinder short-range missile in 2001. It is generally estimated that short-range infrared-guided missiles have an 80% kill rate in air combat, but approaching an enemy fighter to deliver them carries a high risk of mutual destruction. Stealth fighters such as the Raptor are more likely to be able to safely enter the Sidewinder's range from an advantageous angle without being detected by the enemy.

Unfortunately, the amazingly maneuverable Raptors are saddled with outdated 1990s electronics and expensive stealth coatings from last century, and a major upgrade would be impractically expensive since the F-22 is no longer in production.

Thus, the Air Force looked to the NGAD to replace the F-22 and complement the F-35 as a complete 21st century fighter.
Century Tech air superiority fighter featuring more thrust from next-generation adaptive cycle engines, more cost-effective stealth materials to reduce operating costs, integrated artificial intelligence and control capabilities drones, as well as advanced networking capabilities for sensors and fire control. These features are designed to help maintain an advantage over the new stealth aircraft and ground-based integrated air defense systems of China and Russia.

What went wrong? What killed the Air Force's new stealth fighter in its infancy?

A senior Air Force official using the handle "Mike Black" wrote on social media that the Air Force's investment in conventional the war are undermined by the need to simultaneously modernize land-based and air-based nuclear weapons that they would prefer never to use in combat.

Well, that's an excuse. Indeed, the U.S. military is currently pursuing three major replacement programs that simultaneously address the LGM-30G Minuteman III ground-launched intercontinental ballistic missile, the B-2 stealth bomber, and the AGM-86 cruise missile for the B-52.

According to plans, they will be replaced by Northrop Grumman's LGM-35 Sentinel intercontinental ballistic missile, Northrop Grumman's B-21 Raider stealth bomber and Raytheon's AGM-181 LRSO cruise missile. The cost of developing Sentinel, in particular, has already exceeded budget by 37%, to $125 billion.

In his messages, Black wrote that in the current conditions, the Pentagon cannot afford the B-21, NGAD and Sentinel at the same time. He argued that the military would prefer NGAD fighters, but, guided by political motives, intends to spend tens of billions of dollars to modernize/restore nuclear missile silos.

Did the F-35 eat up NGAD's budget?


Another theory put forward aviation journalist Bill Sweetman, argues that cost overruns on the F-35 and failed Block 4 efforts could reduce the budget needed to fund NGAD efforts.

The F-35 fighter jet was notoriously saddled with a long, painful and over-budget development process, but it did become a commercial success in the 2020s (export orders continue to grow) and still appears to be performing satisfactorily in the air, according to -still remaining one of the safest aircraft.

But two huge problems remain.

First, operating costs per flight hour remain high and rising (currently for the Air Force about $6,6 million per year for the F-35A), which prompted the service to mandate flying the aircraft less frequently as operational readiness levels steadily declined. within five years.

Second, the F-35 upgrade program to the new Block 4 standard is so behind schedule and so over budget that the Air Force announced in April that it was significantly scaling back the upgrade, eliminating numerous capabilities planned for the Tech Refresh 3 upgrade.

In the end what? That's right, we got there.

In general, this all smacks of such horror from the history of our 90s, when pilots did not fly because there was no money for kerosene and aircraft maintenance. But here in the USA there is plenty of money, the question is that they are saving an expensive resource. In general - aviation insanity in the flesh. And how to get out of this situation is not entirely clear, because there is a vicious circle here: a decrease in flight time affects the training of flight personnel, which is also not good for the combat effectiveness of the Air Force.

Could Collaborative Combat Aircraft's unmanned aerial vehicles replace NGADs?


The Air Force appears to see a path where separately designed NGAD-interoperable CCA drones could operate with the F-35 (and perhaps even the F-15EX and F-16). Armed with new long-range air-to-air missiles (AIM-260 and possibly upgraded LREWs), the drones could theoretically maintain air superiority without NGAD, according to some in the Pentagon.

Of course, the CCA unmanned aerial vehicle designed to interface with NGAD was originally intended to fly alongside other aircraft such as the F-35 fighter jet, and it is likely that over time other aircraft could be adapted to serve as lead aircraft for the CCA.

But this matter is subtle. It’s one thing when a UAV and an airplane were originally designed to interact, but it’s another to adapt an older aircraft that is not ready for this. It is necessary to place interaction equipment somewhere, coordinate and rewrite protocols, and so on. It's not as simple as it seems at first glance.

Interesting: One potential tactical concept is to rely on CCA unmanned aerial vehicles to operate on the "front line" with a high risk of air defense or in dogfights, while the "opposing forces" of manned fighters remain at a distance tens of kilometers deep into its territory. And each of the aircraft controls several drones at the same time, and also contributes to the battle using long-range missiles.

It is worth noting that the Air Force requirements frame the CCA unmanned aerial vehicle as a relatively combat-capable, expensive and (preferably) non-expendable aircraft. This is normal, this is understandable.


BUT! The SSA costs one-third the price of a manned fighter, rather than the one-tenth originally conceived for drones, the family of which have been dubbed “loyal wingmen”! This cost has serious drawbacks, the main one being the cost itself. And, most importantly, it is absolutely not a fact that premium CCA functions could compensate for the capabilities of aging equipment on 4th and 5th generation fighters.

In addition, it is entirely possible that unmanned aerial vehicles can be improved or replaced as new technologies emerge, and this can be done more cheaply and easily than with manned aircraft. It is easier to retrain an operator than a pilot, and he, the operator, will not have to sit in the cockpit, dodge Russian missiles, eject and hope that the rescue squads will be faster than the enemy search squads.

Considering who we send to search for downed enemy pilots, it’s chilling. Fair and cruel.

However, Black argued that the Air Force may try to "shove" the NGAD role and capabilities into the F-35, "...you'll lose the inherent capabilities you get from the NGAD airframe: low observable performance, range/kinematics and payload." "

This is logical. Of course, not a single UAV can carry as much combat load as a fighter can carry. Even a heavy thing like the Russian “Okhotnik” will only be a flying warehouse capable of firing missiles somewhere there. And where - the pilot from a full-fledged aircraft will show.

So far this is the only way of development.

As for competitors, who said that everything will be easier and faster for them? Yes, if you take China, which is expanding its fleet of J-20 stealth fighters and working on new types of aircraft, such as the J-35, and eventually, sooner or later, will create its own sixth generation air superiority fighter .


An image of the Chinese Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter with additional outlines highlighting the internal weapons bays designed to carry weapons to maintain its stealth to radar. The ammunition compartment in the central compartment can carry at least four heavy long-range air-to-air missiles, while the cheeks carry one short-range air-to-air missile. It is estimated that China could have 2024 or more J-200s by 20.

It is in air superiority scenarios that a stealth aircraft with the thrust and maneuverability to sustainably execute aggressive dogfight maneuvers would be a desirable addition to the F-35. Additionally, the NGAD will likely be designed for a longer range than the F-22 and F-35, making it more suitable for the vast Pacific theater and its ability to escort B-21 stealth bombers much deeper into hostile airspace , relying only on internal fuel and not using air tankers for refueling - this could be the focus.

Perhaps the USAF is simply not confident that any very expensive stealth fighter it is building today will remain effective long enough to justify the billions of dollars in development and maintenance costs that will be incurred within a few decades. And several decades is generally not so much...

Officials have hinted that the Defense Department would prefer to avoid a long-term commitment to a manned design (which could quickly become obsolete) in favor of some kind of alternative - choosing less expensive unmanned aerial vehicles in response to technological developments.

Only time will tell how right everyone was there, as the Air Force's apparent change of heart regarding NGAD is sure to spark controversy and debate in Congress and the military-industrial sector more broadly. This is money...

But in general, the lack of confidence in their own developments in the US Air Force looks very, very peculiar. After all, whatever one may say, the F-22 turned out to be a mega-expensive and not a very effective toy. The F-35 is clearly better, but the costs are staggering. And it turns out that tomorrow the F-6 and F/A-15 will step into the 18th generation, accompanied by drones.
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  1. +5
    27 June 2024 05: 31
    Considering who we send to search for downed enemy pilots, it’s chilling.

    Who is so scary they send us?
    1. man
      +3
      27 June 2024 09: 56
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      Considering who we send to search for downed enemy pilots, it’s chilling.

      Who is so scary they send us?

      Tajik migrants, of course. They eat downed pilots alive after raping them first.
  2. 12+
    27 June 2024 05: 59
    Be that as it may, the Americans remain pioneers in the development of promising aviation based on their strong financial backing.
    Therefore, we need to make fun of them with internal reservations for ourselves: what can we oppose to American developments, with what money and in what time frame?
    I ask supporters of leavened patriotism and victoryism to also discuss.
    1. 0
      27 June 2024 20: 55
      I will answer the supporter of patriotism with the fumes of Coca-Cola! The Boeing Company is currently under investigation by Congress due to the loss of quality of its products, which led to NUMEROUS accidents even with 346 casualties! I’m talking about a pioneer in the development of promising aviation based on its strong financial backing! Former employees who warned about problems with Boeing products suddenly began to die! After the takeover of a competitor, McDonnell-Douglas, employees of the acquired company were brought in to design new aircraft, which led to a loss in the quality of the aircraft produced - I quote the Americans! Of course, with such personnel you can’t build a new 6th generation fighter! So throw away the advertising brochures from 50 years ago, when Boeing was truly a pioneer - today this is no longer the case!
      1. 0
        28 June 2024 07: 40
        Yes, all this is known.
        What about internal reservations?
  3. 10+
    27 June 2024 06: 14
    The US Air Force's sixth-generation fighter may be a stillborn project And if not? Then again change shoes in the jump as with the fifth and say that it is expensive, let them spend the money, but we are smart and will fly on the old one.
    1. +1
      27 June 2024 12: 03
      Their fifth generation shoots down cruise missiles, but ours at least sees them.
      1. 0
        27 June 2024 20: 54
        Quote from Deon59
        Their fifth generation shoots down cruise missiles

        In NATO, the F-16 is the workhorse of missile defense; they and their AFAR are precisely designed to detect radio-contrast targets that fly low over land and water.
      2. -1
        27 June 2024 21: 02
        Can you give me an example? I don’t remember such a case where an American “fifth grader” shot down something - except for the F-22 that shot down a Chinese balloon.
        1. +2
          27 June 2024 22: 37
          3 Nov 2023 - The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) announced the use of the F-35I Adir fighter to intercept a cruise missile.
        2. 0
          7 September 2024 15: 41
          I don't remember a case where an American "fifth-grader" shot down anything - except for the F-22 that shot down a Chinese hot air balloon.

          In order to test new equipment (for almost twenty years!!) THERE ARE EXERCISES, INCLUDING INTERNATIONAL ONES. Equipped with all kinds of objective control equipment. Very high quality and the exercises simulate all aspects of a real war, except for the deaths of the participants.
          Well, what can you do if there is still no Third World War?! You are still waiting for it, thirsting for it, hungering for it - but it still doesn't happen! So the "balloons" have to be shot down by 5th generation aircraft... laughing "In the absence of the Countess, they use the maid..."
    2. 0
      27 June 2024 12: 16
      The article has no core and all observations are superficial. The author does not understand the main thing, what is the concept of the 5th generation aircraft, and how the concept of the 6th generation aircraft differs from it. What fighters? Why are such planes needed?
      Dominance (NGAD) ensures that the Air Force can continue to dominate the skies into the mid-21st century and eventually replace the already impressive, but somewhat expensive to operate (here's a drop) stealth fighter F-22 Raptor.

      These are the goals: dominate and replace.
      If the question of dominance is difficult, then the question of replacement is easy. It’s like what we have with the Su-57, although it’s not so easy to replace.
      Why do we need a 5th generation aircraft? Why do we need a 6th generation aircraft? Due to which they will ensure dominance in the American sense. Are they insured against mistakes? How many examples of voiced and unvoiced? Very difficult questions to which very few people know the answer! But it’s much easier to replace, promote, and make money...
  4. fiv
    13+
    27 June 2024 06: 18
    They don’t have a 6th generation, we don’t have fifth generation airfields. Who has something terrible, author?
    Another article that you need to start reading three times. One thing you can’t overcome, it’s uncomfortable to read.
  5. +9
    27 June 2024 06: 36
    At least mattresses give birth to something.
    1. -4
      27 June 2024 07: 09
      Quote: Idle_piston
      At least mattresses give birth to something.

      But it seems to me that they are simply trying to swindle money out of Congress for fantastic projects.
    2. -7
      27 June 2024 07: 49
      Well, what’s wrong with instant 41? Yes, there are heated debates between the perds, fantasy or reality. But unlike the American one, it is about to take off. Then all disputes will be resolved in one direction or another.
      1. +5
        27 June 2024 12: 05
        It's like Chess is still taking off. Or how Russia cannot build replacements for An 2, An 24, An 12, Il 18.
        1. 0
          27 June 2024 21: 08
          So give Belousov a pioneering assignment - to visit the UAC (United Aircraft Manufacturing Company). Maybe after this Russia will have civil aviation?
          1. +1
            27 June 2024 22: 47
            It’s useless, replacing one official with another is of no use
  6. +5
    27 June 2024 06: 37
    Another bravura article. I would like to read an article analyzing the characteristics of a promising aircraft, and not the author’s imagination.
    1. +4
      27 June 2024 08: 23
      Alexander, technical characteristics of NGAD, but no one will tell you now. But the concept by which it is being created inspires deep suspicions about the viability of the project
  7. +3
    27 June 2024 06: 55
    I recently read that the future fighter will be a modular machine running under a single software, which implies the same update as a phone or laptop. Those. By updating the software code, you can upgrade the machine without changing components and assemblies for a long time. And of course, stealth geometry with an absorbent coating and masking of heat generation
    1. -1
      27 June 2024 09: 12
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      Those. By updating the software code, you can upgrade the machine

      yeah! I can imagine: you are flying on a mission, and then on the screen “you urgently need to install a security update, the plane will be rebooted within 10 minutes; close all current tasks and flights”))
      well, the drivers for the new missiles will fail...)
      1. +5
        27 June 2024 10: 53
        I can imagine: you are flying on a mission, and then on the screen “you urgently need to install an update
        You have a rich imagination. Are you sleeping well?
      2. +1
        27 June 2024 18: 28
        Name at least one case of the nonsense that you wrote, dates and facts, or just blurt out patriotic nonsense?
        1. 0
          27 June 2024 20: 14
          This happened
          The F-35 fighter has significant flaws in the functioning of the software that lead to malfunctions of the airborne radar, Vzglyad quotes the message of the head of the program for the introduction of the aircraft in the US Air Force, Jeffrey Harrigan.
          “The problem is that improperly working software causes malfunctions of the radar with an active phased-array antenna (AFAR) during the flight,” Harrigan told Jane's Defense Weekly.
          “Because of the error, signals about the malfunction of the radar or its complete failure. Because of this, it has to be restarted, ”he added.
          1. +2
            27 June 2024 21: 06
            Yeah, Penguin, generally UG!)) But for some reason he wins all the tenders, the last rather cool tender for the supply of aircraft to Switzerland, where all possible competitors participated, won with one wicket, Germany immediately followed them with its Eurofighter. The F-35 is currently the most dangerous aircraft in the air, both for other aircraft and on the ground, and that is why there is such a queue lined up for it.
            1. +1
              27 June 2024 21: 23
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              But for some reason he wins all the tenders,

              Except for the US Air Force and Navy, which no longer know what to do with it :)))) The former come up with NGAD out of grief, the latter continue to purchase F/A-18 :))))
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              Germany immediately followed them with its Eurofighter

              If you follow the tenders, it’s a shame not to know that Germany is now purchasing the Eurofighter
              German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, speaking at the ILA aerospace show in Berlin, announced that the German authorities intend to order 20 more Eurofighter Typhoon multirole fighters from Airbus. This was reported by the Reuters news agency.
              Explaining the need for such a purchase, Scholz said that Germany began to spend much more money on defense after Russia launched a Special Military Operation in adjacent territory. The German chancellor also said he was committed to "firmly" maintaining and expanding weapons production capacity.
              "That's why we will order 20 more Eurofighters before the end of this legislative session - in addition to the 38 aircraft that are currently in production," Scholz said.

              А
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              The F-35 is currently the most dangerous aircraft in the air

              bought by Germany to replace the Tornado, since the Eurofighter does not carry nuclear bombs. So in the Luftwaffe the F-35 is not the king of the air, but a strategic bomber :))))
              1. +2
                27 June 2024 21: 35
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                If you follow the tenders, it’s a shame not to know that Germany is now purchasing the Eurofighter

                Germany, in a new 100 billion package, is ordering just a batch of 35 and F-35s, along with weapons worth 10 billion euros; Rheinmetall is involved in the production of German F-35s. The Tornado is an ancient aircraft, it was replaced by the Eurofighter. 20 Eurofighters are ordered in addition, also to load the domestic military-industrial complex.
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Except for the US Air Force and Navy, which no longer know what to do with it :))))

                Well, yes, we realized in time, only 1000 of them are already in service. And the order is for 2500 in total, for now.
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                F-35 is not the king of the air, but a strategic bomber :))))

                F-35 and the king of the air and the bomber. Simply because he will be the first to see and shoot. When vehicles with the same or close to the F-35 EPR and the same level of radar appear in the Russian Federation or China, then maybe the F-35 will not pose the same danger as it does today for its opponents. It is for this reason that the USA and Europe are creating a foundation for the future, the 6th generation.
                1. 0
                  28 June 2024 07: 33
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  Germany in the new 100 billion package is ordering just a batch of 35 and F-35s, along with weapons worth 10 billion euros

                  It’s clear, I heard a ringing, but I don’t know where it is.
                  In 2020, the F-35 in Germany lost to the Eurofighter and to replace the 1st series Eurofighter, an order was placed for 38 4th series Eurofighters :))))
                  However, the Eurofighter cannot carry nuclear weapons. And Germany is a participant in “NATO joint nuclear missions” (aka the NATO Nuclear Sharing program), that is, they need aircraft for nuclear weapons. But the Tornadoes that can carry them are leaving the formation, so an order for 2022 penguins has been placed in 35. Instead of Tornado.
                  And then, in 2024, Germany announced an order for another 20 Eurofighters. That is, the Eurofighter is a fighter for gaining air superiority for the Luftwaffe, and the F-35 is a replacement for a tactical bomber, which the Germans would not have needed at all if not for nuclear weapons
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  Well, yes, we realized in time, only 1000 of them are already in service. And the order is for 2500 in total, for now.

                  And now they don’t know what to do about it. Because the plane doesn't want to fly normally
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  F-35 and the king of the air and the bomber.

                  That is why the United States is building the F-15EX with all its might as an air superiority fighter :))))))
                  1. -1
                    28 June 2024 19: 18
                    [quote=Andrey from Chelyabinsk]I see, I heard a ringing, but I don’t know where it is.
                    I would say so about the ringing and not knowing where it was especially sprayed if I were you. You apparently haven’t looked at any other news except for 2020, which is why you continue to write nonsense. This order for 10 billion rubles for 35 F-35s comes from a package for 100 billion rubles, which was approved in 2022 by the current coalition. What does 2020 have to do with it? One of the reasons why the Germans decided to buy the F-35 was its ability to carry tactical nuclear weapons, unlike the Eurofighter, which is not suitable for this weapon. But the reason why they buy additional Eurofighters is not because they are better in air combat, it’s your imagination, but in order to load up the local military-industrial complex, Chancellor Scholz at least said this. Whatever nonsense people write in the future that supposedly confirm your theories about the “sloppy” F-35, here is a link to official documents where everything is explained in black and white, what and why.
                    https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2023A23/
                    [quote=Andrey from Chelyabinsk]That is why the United States is building the F-15EX with all its might as an air superiority fighter:))))))[/quote]
                    Why should they now write off all 4th generation vehicles because the F-35 has appeared? Are there no more uses for these machines? Moreover, the F-15 EX can carry 16 tons of weapons, it is a powerful, proven vehicle. Which is in service in several other countries and will remain in service for some time. And besides the F-15, there are other 4th generation aircraft that are used, for which there is infrastructure. Why didn’t they, having already built 1000 for themselves, cancel the order for another 1500? Are they building and building? The strength of the F-35 is its stealth for any radar and a big problem for any enemy both in the air and on the ground, it can fly there, where any 4th generation aircraft will be captured by the radar and possibly shot down, and therefore a line is lined up behind them, which You wouldn't be making this up here. In addition, it is becoming cheaper and cheaper; this machine not only surpasses all others in terms of combat performance characteristics, but is also a completely new approach to the production of aircraft. And maybe here and there some shoals have come out, are coming out and will come out, but this is the case in any aircraft and complex machine
                    1. -1
                      28 June 2024 20: 44
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      This order for 10 billion rubles for 35 F-35s comes from a package for 100 billion rubles, which was approved in 2022 by the current coalition. What does 2020 have to do with it?

                      Indeed:))))) Well, if even after explanations you are not able to understand this, then medicine is powerless.
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      But the reason why they buy additional Eurofighters is not because they are better in air combat, it’s your imagination, but in order to load up the local military-industrial complex, Chancellor Scholz at least said this.

                      V. 2020 F-35 With a bang. Lost the tender to Eurofighter. And the Germans bought 38 Eurofighters. Instead of. F-35.
                      The Americans, of course, didn’t like this, so the Germans had to shell out money for the “wonderful” F-35. But the Germans do not want to buy penguins beyond what is necessary to maintain relations with the United States, so they dragged the next twenty under the guise of “supporting domestic producers.”
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      Why should they now write off all 4th generation vehicles because the F-35 has appeared? Are there no more uses for these machines? Moreover, the F-15 EX can carry 16 tons of weapons, it is a powerful, proven vehicle.

                      wassat
                      Hmmm. Thank you for the brilliant display of knowledge that is inherent in F-35 fans.
                      F-35EX is not “tested” it is newest a machine that the Americans have now put into production.
                      And so it turns out that one fairy-tale character with a blue eye declares
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      The F-35 is currently the most dangerous aircraft in the air, as for other aircraft

                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      F-35 and the king of the air and the bomber. Simply because he will be the first to see and shoot.

                      But the Americans, who clearly know the capabilities of their equipment better than the Karabas-Barabas, for some reason do not assign the task of gaining air supremacy to the F-35, but instead rivet the F-15EX, which are never stealthy at all, and whose radar is only only the modernization of the AN/AGP-63, while the F-35 radar was created on the basis of the much more advanced 77th.
                      Stupid, stupid Americans :))) Explain to them the full depth of their delusions
  8. +2
    27 June 2024 07: 14
    Quote: Andrey Moskvin
    Considering who we send to search for downed enemy pilots, it’s chilling.

    Who is so scary they send us?

    I would like to expand the information - this is the most interesting part of the opus.
  9. -3
    27 June 2024 07: 23
    They print money for themselves as much as they need, so they can afford any game! And the main thing is that everyone does it in hundreds. It didn’t work out, but there’s a lot of it and all sorts of sycophants are willing to buy it, so everything will work out for them, they have a school, they have experience and most importantly a lot of money
  10. +2
    27 June 2024 07: 35
    "Americans always find the best way to solve a problem - after they've tried everything else." (c) Attributed to W. Churchill
  11. +5
    27 June 2024 08: 13
    Roman, on a personal note, I know that you love American military equipment, but now you can’t write about it. I know what you really want is for us to have 11 aircraft carriers, a thousand F-35s, the useless F-22s that are currently flying over Europe, and for us to have those expensive, ineffective B-2s and B-21s.
    And what you're missing most is the ability to take a design from the drawing board into the air, like the Americans do.
    1. man
      -1
      27 June 2024 10: 01
      Roman, on a personal note, I know that you love American military equipment
      And how do you communicate this strategically important information to yourself?
      1. +3
        27 June 2024 10: 30
        First I sent letters to myself. But the postman always picked his nose while delivering them. The envelopes were dirty and covered in snot. Then I sent carrier pigeons to my place. Unfortunately, they looked like Ukrainian drones and were always shot down. I'm currently trying to send messages to my future self through a crystal ball.
        1. man
          +3
          27 June 2024 12: 13
          Quote: Little Bear
          First I sent letters to myself. But the postman always picked his nose while delivering them. The envelopes were dirty and covered in snot. Then I sent carrier pigeons to my place. Unfortunately, they looked like Ukrainian drones and were always shot down. I'm currently trying to send messages to my future self through a crystal ball.

          As I see, you are not looking for easy ways...
      2. +1
        7 September 2024 15: 35
        Roman, on a personal note, I know that you love American military equipment

        And how do you communicate this strategically important information to yourself?

        As far as I understood, it was irony, sarcasm...
        1. man
          +1
          7 September 2024 17: 19
          Quote: Strelkin
          Roman, on a personal note, I know that you love American military equipment

          And how do you communicate this strategically important information to yourself?

          As far as I understood, it was irony, sarcasm...

          Of course smile
  12. +1
    27 June 2024 08: 14
    If you think about it, read it, take a closer look... in the concept of the combat use of the 5th generation Ash, not everything that was stated, planned, promised, implemented, tested, created....
    And now the question is... what do they want to achieve by jumping to the next stage, since everything is not clear and defined with the previous one?
    However, this has happened before, but usually it happened after the next leap in production technologies, scientific discoveries.... and what’s new that happened now???
    1. +1
      27 June 2024 08: 36
      So the fifth generation has not shown anything new yet. The same bombing of ground targets, and the absence of air battles.
      1. +2
        27 June 2024 09: 19
        The only statement that can/should be considered more carefully is the raid by Israeli "penguins" on Iranian facilities....
        Everything is somehow vague, conditional, but the Israelis praised the “penguin” as best they could...
        1. 0
          27 June 2024 09: 22
          The local Aron Zaavi also sang odes to them. For successful bombing...
          1. -1
            27 June 2024 10: 13
            Everything is very uncertain, and so, a sandpiper is a swamp, a well-known theme. Nothing new was demonstrated.
    2. +2
      27 June 2024 12: 27
      Well, straight to the topic! Read my comment. Everything is definite and clear for those who understand. There was an information revolution in military affairs, after the information revolution. But no one here has noticed this, especially in the conservative and stupid leadership of one department, until now!
    3. 0
      7 September 2024 15: 21
      If you think about it, read it, take a closer look... in the concept of the combat use of the 5th generation Ash, not everything that was stated, planned, promised, implemented, tested, created....

      Everything has been thought out and checked three hundred times - during training exercises over the last almost 20 years with the 5th generation, and everything is remarkably well-written... lol IT'S JUST NOT BEEN BRINGEN TO YOU... laughing
      And now the question is... what do they want to achieve by jumping to the next stage, since everything is not clear and defined with the previous one?

      I can repeat for the 10th time: fighter of a generation N + 1 differs from the fighter generation N firstly, secondly and thirdly, how many times in a duel air battle can he destroy a previous generation fighter without any external support, one on oneThe Americans' 5th generation fighters beat their own fourth generation with devastating, astronomical, fantastic scores, with their own engines and avionics, with their own ELINT and EW systems. Accordingly, the American 6th generation should have high (even if not astronomical) results to defeat the 5th American generation. But not everyone has taken the time to understand and realize this.
      However, this has happened before, but usually it happened after the next leap in production technologies, scientific discoveries.... and what’s new that happened now???

      And in the last 20-25 years, technologies have also improved, innovations have also appeared, although not necessarily everywhere in a leap, but continuously and gradually. THE PROCESS WAS ON. And everything new will have to be implemented in the 6th generation aircraft.
      1. 0
        7 September 2024 16: 06
        Blessed is he who believes... however, faith does not always lead to heaven.
        1. 0
          7 September 2024 16: 08
          It is not based on faith, but solely on knowledge. And knowledge, as Francis Bacon said, is POWER! laughing
          1. 0
            7 September 2024 16: 16
            Come on, expert, there is no topic for debate, because there is none yet.
            1. 0
              7 September 2024 16: 18
              There is no 6th generation? That's how it is being created, right now. But many here don't believe in the 5th either... wink
              1. 0
                7 September 2024 16: 25
                The conception of the program that resulted in the F-22 began in 1985, the pre-production aircraft took off in 1990, the first production aircraft took off in 1997, and the first F-22 squadron entered service in 2005. Total - 20 years. What surprises anyone that "there is no 6th generation yet"? Well, yes, there is no XNUMXth generation YET... smile
              2. 0
                7 September 2024 16: 26
                They don't believe it, it's all relative, depending on how you look at it...
                The Yankees are great in this regard. They have a concept of absolute, categorical advantage in the airspace and they do everything for it!
                Not without nuances, not without flaws, but still they are ahead of everyone in this regard.
                Well, to spend such resources to support one’s own concept of conducting military operations, few people can afford that!
                What's next?
                Oh yes, one nuance, this concept works where nothing can interfere with it... no one has tested it any other way.
                1. 0
                  7 September 2024 16: 33
                  What's next?

                  Next up is the 6th generation of tactical fighters and a huge arsenal of additional means: radar, ELINT, missiles of all types and kinds, combat lasers, improvement of the orbital group, improvement of nuclear submarines, widespread introduction of artificial intelligence, UAVs from mega- to micro- and nano-...
                  Oh yes, one nuance, this concept works where nothing can interfere with it... no one has tested it any other way.

                  It is strange to hear such extremely frivolous expressions: all combat capabilities of aviation and missile technology are tested during numerous exercises, the most highly organized. No one is waiting for another world war for this. But in order to correctly, competently and qualitatively organize such exercises, where it is possible to test aviation and rocket technology, very high technologies and the involvement of scientists are also needed.
                  The Americans have done this and are developing it...
                  1. 0
                    7 September 2024 16: 38
                    Well then, put the flag between their buns, forward and with a song...
                    Oh yeah, let them first deliver/evacuate their astronauts from the ISS to Earth... first.
                    1. 0
                      7 September 2024 16: 41
                      As a last resort, Rogozin will be brought in, he has such a special trampoline...
                      1. 0
                        7 September 2024 16: 42
                        Well, yes, Rogozin at least has a trampoline! But the Yankees don't...
                      2. 0
                        7 September 2024 16: 43
                        Apparently Elon Musk snorted too much cocaine... lol
                      3. 0
                        7 September 2024 16: 44
                        It's their business, I'm not interested at all...
                      4. 0
                        7 September 2024 16: 50
                        Whose military affairs could be of interest to a person who is truly interested in military affairs, if not the affairs of a potential enemy?! winked
                      5. 0
                        7 September 2024 16: 57
                        That's when they had a scandal with the coke-addled/stoned nuclear forces crews at the launch sites, that was serious, scary, and the rest... depends on the situation.
                      6. 0
                        7 September 2024 16: 59
                        This is not particularly scary, because there is multi-level protection against unauthorized launch. A everyone at all levels can't get stoned at the same time, so sleep peacefully! smile
                      7. 0
                        7 September 2024 17: 03
                        And do you find out why there are MEASURES provided there for the destruction of missiles launched without authorization? wink
                      8. 0
                        7 September 2024 17: 05
                        What do you mean, "just in case!" Even the probability of which is negligible. After all, there hasn't been a single one in the last 60 years? wink Or did I miss one?!
                      9. 0
                        7 September 2024 17: 08
                        Never say never!
                        And we didn't come up with this!
                        By the way, the fact that this NEVER happens is very, very pleasing.
                        By the way, there are also many provisions against the unauthorized dropping of nuclear bombs, but they have fallen more than once... fortunately, they did not explode normally.
                      10. 0
                        7 September 2024 17: 11
                        Of course, this is very pleasing - especially for those near whom these bombs fell. I only remember one case somewhere in Spain:
                        "The tragedy over the fishing village of Palomares occurred in January 1966. An American B-52G strategic bomber collided with a KC-135 tanker during mid-air refueling. All four crew members of the air tanker and three of the seven crew members of the bomber were killed; four managed to eject."
                      11. 0
                        7 September 2024 17: 14
                        There are a few more situations/incidents... but this is still a conversation about nothing.
                        Not interested.
                      12. 0
                        7 September 2024 17: 15
                        I've said everything on the topic. Maybe someone will find it interesting? wink
                        For those in the know...
  13. 0
    27 June 2024 08: 38
    Maybe/can't...
    with such words you need to go to the Reporter...
    But in reality, immediately after the development of the 5th generation, countries began to develop the 6th.
    Ours too - they wrote

    Another thing is what will be considered the 6th generation? the concept of 10 years ago - flights into near space and long range - fizzled out and evaporated as unnecessary.
    now - a flywheel with swarm control?
    1. 0
      7 September 2024 16: 49
      Another question is what will be considered the 6th generation?

      Something that can give the 5th generation a kick in the pants.
      The concept of 10 years ago - flights into near space and long range - fizzled out and evaporated as unnecessary.

      Nobody really planned such nonsense about “near space” and “hypersound” for the 6th generation; it’s idle fiction from journalists.
      now - tailless with swarm control?

      Now: artificial intelligence on board, up to the complete elimination of a living pilot; the ability to control a bunch of UAVs - plus all the properties and qualities that 5th generation aircraft have, only better.
  14. -3
    27 June 2024 09: 08
    Well, considering that the US military-industrial complex is accustomed to consuming $100 billion, without any benefit to the country, in general there is nothing new - a continuation of the F-35 program.
  15. -1
    27 June 2024 10: 20
    BUT! The SSA costs one-third the price of a manned fighter, rather than the one-tenth originally conceived for drones, the family of which have been dubbed “loyal wingmen”!

    You gave them a great idea for cutting the budget.
    Since it is impossible to reduce the cost of the “follower” to an acceptable level, then it is necessary to raise the cost of the “leader” in order to even out the intended price ratio. lol
  16. fiv
    -2
    27 June 2024 10: 27
    It is immediately clear that Chubais is somewhere there, next to them. Yes, the technology is expensive, you need more money. Where is the equipment, show me? She's invisible!
  17. +2
    27 June 2024 13: 13
    Many American programs will inevitably be significantly impacted by the current conflict. They will ask themselves the question - what if their precious aircraft are effectively carried out not in the air, but at their home airfields? What if they, having hundreds of fleets of such products designed for air combat and stuffed with high-tech, lose the functionality of these products due to some related reasons - electronic warfare, critical damage to the operating infrastructure? Finally, they understand that we have good air defense and their planes will suffer losses - so in view of all this, the moment is inevitable when the Americans will ask themselves the question “will we be able to make up for these losses in such expensive devices if the conflict situation drags on? "
    These are considerations of war economics. They are afraid of falling into the “quality and performance characteristics trap” into which the Wehrmacht fell a year ago in 1943-1944.
    So cutting back on overly elaborate programs is quite logical. Now they will look at the experience of the Northern Military District and adjust military development.
    1. 0
      27 June 2024 14: 09
      Before WWII, analysts also argued that modern technology was too expensive and difficult to produce, and in the event of a major conflict it would not be possible to quickly produce it. But no, as it turns out, total mobilization of the economy works wonders.
      1. ada
        0
        29 June 2024 13: 15
        This, it is obvious, but a question always arises that is constantly brushed aside, delaying its solution: “How applicable are the currently existing approaches or principles of research used to assess probabilistic events in a global nuclear conflict and what resolution do they have in considering the perspective on a linear scale time?" Simply put, what will happen to the possibility of restoring the industrial complex to produce a sufficient level in order to maintain the required quantity and quality of the provision of the armed forces and other structures of arms and military equipment and public health services in the second half of the war, and what is this prospect for the second year of the war and subsequent years?
  18. +4
    27 June 2024 14: 08
    A bunch of bad planes of the 5th generation (although the Raptor seems to be good) are still better than their absence.