Gun cartridges for combating UAVs from the Tekhkrim company

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Gun cartridges for combating UAVs from the Tekhkrim company
Shot cartridges for combating UAVs - "Fat Goose KS" and "12/76 Service"


In the Special Operation zone, Russian troops are faced with a large number of enemy light-class UAVs for reconnaissance and strike purposes. To protect against them, various means and devices are used. In particular, smoothbore shotguns with shot cartridges perform well. Recently, the Russian company Techkrim developed this idea and developed new rifle cartridges optimized for use in drones.



New developments


At the beginning of April 2024, CJSC Tekhkrim (Izhevsk) presented for the first time on its Internet resources a new shot cartridge within the 12/76 “Fat Goose” family. This product is called “Fat Goose KS” (“Short Barrel”) and is intended for use in civilian smoothbore weapons. According to promotional materials, such a cartridge is intended to destroy small UAVs at ranges of up to 75 m.

Soon the development company announced the start of sales of the new 12/76 “Service” cartridge. It is intended for use in service smooth-bore weapons to destroy drones. The service patron is offered to legal entities with special statutory tasks - private security companies, departmental security, etc.

It should be noted that the design and characteristics of the “Fat Goose KS” and “Service” cartridges are identical. The release of one product under two names in different categories is associated with the specifics of certification and sales of cartridges. Thanks to this solution, the Tekhkrim company can present its products in two categories at once and work with a wider range of customers.

In early May, they introduced another cartridge for combating UAVs called “Interception”, intended for civilian weapons. Like previous developments, it is made in 12 gauge, but differs in the use of a 70 mm sleeve. The cartridge equipment has also changed: instead of shot, the so-called. bound buckshot made from modern materials. The ability to destroy standard UAVs at ranges of up to 100 m is declared.


"Interception" cartridges assembled and their components. In the foreground is tied buckshot

On June 11, the development company announced the launch of sales of the service modification “Interception”. The 12/70 Intercept-S product is no different from the previously released sample and has the same characteristics.

All new shot and buckshot cartridges from Tekhkrim have passed the necessary tests at the test site and confirmed the design characteristics. The development company even published a test video showing the defeat of an air target. The necessary documents have also been completed to begin sales.

Also on June 11, the Izvestia publication spoke about a new stage of testing of promising cartridges. With reference to Oleg Kuzmenko, director of Tekhkrim CJSC, it is reported that the first batches of ammunition were sent to units involved in the Special Operation to conduct military tests. Troops constantly face the threat of drones, and will now have a new tool to counter it.

Shot against drone


The new products 12/76 “Service” and “Fat Goose KS” in their design and composition are practically no different from common cartridges of other models. At the same time, the components and characteristics of these munitions were determined taking into account the work on a specific target in the form of a UAV assembled from plastic and metal parts. It is noteworthy that when creating cartridges it was possible to make do only with well-known and proven solutions.

Shot cartridges are produced in a plastic sleeve 76 mm long with a metal bottom. A propellant charge, a powder and heat-stable wad, and a shot charge are placed sequentially inside the cartridge case. The cartridge carries 43 g of shot No. 3 in the form of solid metal copper-plated balls with a diameter of 3,5 mm. A plastic Eley ring is placed near the muzzle of the cartridge case. The initial shot velocity is 420 m/s, the effective fire range against UAVs is 75 m.


Layout of the "Interception" ammunition

O. Kuzmenko, in a recent interview for Izvestia, noted that shot No. 3 is optimal for hitting light UAVs. A smaller shot may not cause the required damage to the target, while a larger shot reduces the number of balls in the cartridge and the likelihood of damage. The Eley ring in the form of a small cylinder prevents the shot from scattering after exiting the muzzle, thereby improving accuracy.

It is reported that the "Fat Goose KS" and "Service" cartridges are compatible with any 12-gauge shotguns. The automatic operation of self-loading systems is ensured, as well as the required combat characteristics, regardless of the barrel length.

Buckshot cartridge


Products of the “Interception” line are also built on the basis of well-known ideas. They were implemented using modern materials, which make it possible to increase the efficiency of fire when solving specific problems. At the same time, the cartridges provide a combined effect on the target, which increases the likelihood of successful interception.

“Perekhut” and “Perekhut-S” are made in a 12-gauge plastic sleeve, 70 mm long, with a metal bottom. Inside it there is a powder charge, a wad container and a so-called charge. connected buckshot with a total mass of 20 g. When fired, such a “projectile” is ejected from the barrel at a speed of 550-580 m/s. The declared effective firing range is 100 m.

Six lead buckshots weighing 3 g each are used as striking elements. They are made in the form of triangular prisms and fit tightly into a wad container in the form of a cylinder. The buckshots are connected in pairs with a Kevlar or nylon thread 1 m long. The three threads intersect and are fastened at the centers. When fired, the striking elements come out of the barrel and tend to fly away in different directions. At a distance of up to 15-20 m from the muzzle, the buckshots diverge to a maximum distance from each other, limited by the threads.


Tied Buckshot in Flight (marked with a circle)

The dimensions of the hexagonal “projectile” increase the likelihood of hitting a typical aerial target - buckshot and/or threads will hit the drone. In this case, a combined effect on the UAV is achieved. Lead elements should destroy its structure, and threads can block the rotation of propellers. In any case, being hit by associated buckshot prevents the drone from continuing to fly.

Specialized tool


To combat light UAVs, a variety of means are used to suppress or destroy such targets. Smooth-bore shotguns with shot cartridges show a good balance between cost, ease of use and efficiency. A trained shooter with such a weapon can confidently hit hanging and moving drones at a distance of tens of meters.

The idea of ​​the Tekhkrim company to develop new cartridges optimized for hitting specific air targets looks logical and timely. The appearance of such ammunition, regardless of their developers and manufacturers, should have a positive impact on the capabilities of our units in the fight against enemy UAVs.

Tekhkrim's two projects have several interesting features that could become advantages. First of all, this is the simplicity of the design of the cartridges and the absence of fundamentally new solutions. Thus, when creating the “12/76 Service” or “Fat Goose KS”, the development company essentially slightly rebuilt the existing ammunition design and received a new model with special capabilities. The “Interception” product also did without major innovations.

As tests carried out at the test site have shown, the resulting cartridges cope with the assigned tasks and demonstrate advantages over other types of ammunition. Now it is planned to conduct military tests in a combat zone using weapons and ammunition against real enemy UAVs. The exact results of such efforts remain unclear, but overall there is cause for optimism.


A target drone testing a shot cartridge. The impact of the striking elements led to the stoppage of a pair of engines and the loss of the ability to fly.

Separately, the issue of cost should be considered. For 12/76 cartridges, the manufacturer set a retail price of 72 rubles, which is approximately 6% more than similar gross cartridges with the same shot. Intercept products are sold for 215 rubles, but there is nothing to compare them with - this is the only cartridge with associated buckshot in the Tekhkrim catalog.

In current tests, among other things, it is necessary to determine the economic performance and feasibility of new cartridges. In particular, Interceptions will have to show that a threefold difference in cost is accompanied by a comparable increase in efficiency.

Response to a threat


Thus, the enemy is trying to increase its unmanned aerial "fleet" and actively use it against Russian troops, and our defense industry is looking for new ways to counter such a threat. Many radio-technical systems have been developed, and specialized firearms are also offered. In addition, rifles are showing good results, and new, more effective ammunition is being created for them.

All such means of protection, suppression and destruction form a layered system with the help of which troops can protect themselves, cities and territories. At the same time, such a system needs constant verification and improvement. The next addition to it is new rifle cartridges, and it will soon become clear whether they cope with their tasks.
94 comments
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  1. +4
    16 June 2024 05: 37
    Let's see in practice. It might actually be a useful thing.
    1. +6
      16 June 2024 06: 30
      Yes, there are already shootings on YouTube, of course, not everything is so rosy and it’s not a direct fountain, but there are splashes... good
      In this case, on the contrary, we can paraphrase what is known: something is better than nothing. Yes
      1. +5
        16 June 2024 09: 18
        The funniest thing is that the first videos appeared among the bourgeoisie. When the concerned radneks remembered the knitted buckshot as a means of ensuring their own privacy :) Then it came to techcrime.
        1. +2
          16 June 2024 09: 22
          They had nothing to do with drones... buckshot, even pistol and hunting bullets have been produced for a very long time... I saw it at the same demolution ranch about 8 years ago. feel
          Quote: Vlad2012
          The funny thing is that the first videos appeared among the bourgeoisie
          1. +4
            16 June 2024 09: 35
            Knitted buckshot for hunting or self-defense has much shorter leashes. Because it solved the problem of ensuring accuracy. And it was never very popular, especially in America with their availability of rifled firearms
            1. +4
              16 June 2024 09: 49
              Quote: Vlad2012
              Because it solved the problem of ensuring accuracy

              So I wrote about this above. Whatever is done there for accuracy, I made one myself with a boar. The difference here against drones is that the target is not very contrasting, it moves quickly and therefore it is necessary to ensure approximately the same dispersion as that of ordinary buckshot, but the emphasis is not on hitting the canister itself, but namely to tie the target itself and in order to preserve it as far as possible the energy of the buckshots themselves and, accordingly, increase the firing range and flatness. And the drone itself will get entangled in it with its blades.

              The question here is what the king-barbecue drone can come up with against the fagots. laughing Which will protect all projections with a net and, in fact, it won’t care about the bundle and only if the buckshot hits somewhere... it will hit for sure, because In theory, the length should be enough recourse In general, here we need to set up experiments and check them. I think the next stage will be the fight between shield and sword.
              1. +3
                16 June 2024 12: 51
                Quote from Enceladus
                they can come up with a king-barbecue drone.

                Ring protection for propellers on drones (quadcopters) exists, although it reduces the load-carrying capacity and is apparently impossible (overly complicated) for folding portable models, which is important for small drones. Most likely, the few Kevlar threads are more designed specifically to increase accuracy; perhaps there is also a knocking (cutting?) effect from the impact of threads of a lightweight structure in flight. A durable barbecue on a drone is beyond the capabilities of small ones and useless for large ones, and maintenance and transportation will be complicated.
              2. +1
                16 June 2024 17: 09
                I think that knitted buckshot in the case of drones is an attempt to close the "windows" in the buckshot shower... A drone is not a wild boar, one tug from a snagged thread may be enough for it to lose stabilization during flight and fly down head over heels.
    2. 0
      17 June 2024 11: 53
      It might actually be a useful thing.

      Maybe... Only an AK is at hand, not a shotgun. And the quad can be heard (it is even more reliable to hear the warning squeak of the radiation receiver, if our geniuses realize that this is extremely important - the quad cannot help but emit!) but to see
      only from 50 m maximum. That's the distance you need to make a regular AK cartridge with a delay in the bullet detonation time. Moreover, the delay is different. And load the magazine. With the AK's rate of fire, it's quite possible to get a cloud of pieces of the required size flying towards the quad. Although I've seen racing quads crack on the ground, bounce off and continue flying.
  2. +1
    16 June 2024 05: 44
    All such means of protection, suppression and destruction form a layered system with the help of which troops can protect themselves, cities and territories

    It was the third year...we were honored
    1. +3
      16 June 2024 12: 21
      What have you achieved? This is not yet available in the troops.
      LBS can’t even provide the guns themselves, let alone special cartridges.
    2. +2
      16 June 2024 17: 23
      It's a sales gimmick, and it's impractical to require soldiers on the battlefield to shoot skeet as well as Olympic athletes.
      1. +1
        17 June 2024 06: 34
        Quote from: wanna
        It's a commercial ploy

        Under capitalism, everything is commerce! And to receive a contract from the State represented by the Moscow Region is the dream of any manufacturer!
        Quote from: wanna
        and it is impractical to require soldiers on the battlefield to shoot skeet as well as Olympic athletes.

        It’s not necessary as an Olympic athlete, but as an average hunter it’s quite enough! And there’s nothing complicated about it, I shot my first duck at the age of 12...
        1. +1
          17 June 2024 19: 25
          It’s not necessary as an Olympic athlete, but as an average hunter it’s quite enough! And there’s nothing complicated about it, I shot my first duck at the age of 12...
          Reply
          Quote
          But this duck did not hold f1 in its paws and did not fly along a drunken sinusoid, at a speed of at least three duck times.
          1. +1
            18 June 2024 07: 28
            Quote: Grim Reaper
            and did not fly along a drunken sinusoid, at a speed of at least three ducks.

            This is where you get everything from? You’d better tighten up the hardware, rather than fantasize. The speed of a duck in flight is 90 km/hour! That is, drones fly at least 270 km/hour? For reference, the world speed record set on a specially modified drone is 263 km/h! The average maximum speed of drones is 130 km/h. Not much bigger than a duck. And “in a drunken sine wave” is too far-fetched, physical limitations won’t allow it... I understand that you’ve never been hunting... But have you at least fired from a shotgun?
            1. 0
              21 June 2024 18: 21
              Never with a shotgun. But somehow I managed to miss from three meters from the PM.
              1. 0
                21 June 2024 18: 23
                What am I talking about, that shooting at drones and at drones are two completely different things...
      2. +3
        17 June 2024 08: 18
        u dont need to be a sniper, the inside pellets cover a bigger area. and also, this should work together with automatic fire, so the shotgun will cover the solid components, more resistant to machine pistol fire. as i said, for russia is much better to build around the existing technique, recondition and recover, while focusing their research for things really new.
  3. +6
    16 June 2024 06: 04
    Everything comes back. Previously, chained cannonballs were used against rigging in naval battles.
    1. IVZ
      +2
      16 June 2024 06: 25
      Previously, chained cannonballs were used against rigging in naval battles.
      The tied buckshot never left the hunters' arsenal. Another thing is that it was rarely used and was exclusively homemade.
    2. +4
      16 June 2024 06: 27
      Knipples were called...
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      Previously, chained cannonballs were used against rigging in naval battles.


      ZY Back in the USSR, knittings were made by hunters themselves (mainly 9mm buckshot), but not “knitting” a boar carcass and a similar purpose, but so that the buckshot would flow in a heap both at close and long distances, where it still has energy, but for obvious reasons the spread is already big
  4. +8
    16 June 2024 06: 19
    ------------------------------------------------
  5. -2
    16 June 2024 06: 40
    Assembling teams of hunters, former boar shooters, I had the 1st category, there is a problem, it needs to be solved? It needs to be at least like this, it will continue like a snowball
    1. +2
      16 June 2024 07: 12
      And what will you assign one command to a separate department? It is quite possible for hunters to make a registration certificate for shooting drones, to make the status of a participant in the database, etc. but without titles, and there are plenty of civilian awards/prizes (the same Muzhik can be given to a civilian, in this case, in fact, he replaces Courage due to the specifics feel ). And give 1 at the level of a squad/platoon, assault group for example... He doesn’t get into trouble, “turns his head all 360 degrees” (c) + detectors. Well, allocate one guy for security and escort.
      Of the “elders” who are hunters and who actually engage in hunting or regularly hunt specifically, and not in the Peculiarities of the national hunt - the majority - one way or another, I think the time passed even easier.
      ZY So, thoughts on the fan. feel
      1. +3
        17 June 2024 06: 44
        Quote from Enceladus
        And give 1 at the level of squad/platoon, assault group for example..

        Kuzmich, you will join the attack aircraft!
        1. +1
          17 June 2024 06: 49
          In such laughing good drinks soldier drinks ?
    2. 0
      16 June 2024 08: 28
      Probably better than stand-up guys
      1. +8
        16 June 2024 09: 38
        I wouldn’t say they are like Pavlov’s dogs... they don’t look around, they clearly know where the bird is... oh, the plate will fly out... lol
        Quote: ohka
        Probably better than stand-up guys

        I saw one stand hunter on a hunt... laughter and that’s all.
        1. game almost never flies parallel to you, one way or another at an angle.
        2. Distances may be different
        3. She can take off, for example, from the reeds and be a meter away from the water, and not soar into the air.x
        3. Vertical speed can also be different, just like horizontal.
        4. Well, and it, the target, in a single copy, and not in two (although sometimes you can try and with both) - but!!!! here you need the skills of shooting consistently and from a choke/half-choke, and automatically calculate in your head on the machine what kind of shot pattern you will have and whether there will be enough sharpness at its distance, secondly, the pellets can be different! in the barrels. Yes, a lot of things. So sport is one thing, and hunting is another. You don't need to mix flies and cutlets ... I do not mean that clay pigeon shooting is bad - each shooting has its own specifics feel
        1. 0
          17 June 2024 09: 44
          And the eye is no longer the same, a week to restore skills and I’ll shoot from the second one from 50 meters
          1. 0
            17 June 2024 10: 04
            Quote: Sofievka
            And the eye is no longer the same

            Quote: Sofievka
            I’ll shoot from the second one from 50 meters
            from the second or his too? laughing laughing laughing lol hi
            1. 0
              17 June 2024 10: 08
              And him too, we have very little time, we need to act, there are many options, I offered mine, I didn’t miss
      2. +1
        17 June 2024 06: 51
        Quote: ohka
        Probably better than stand-up guys

        And on motorcycles there sneakers cut?
  6. +1
    16 June 2024 06: 51
    This is against FPN drones, but what about resets? The drone will simply change flight level and will be out of range of the ammunition.
    Well, yes, the accuracy of the reset will decrease, but nevertheless the problem does not go away.
    1. +1
      16 June 2024 08: 26
      They no longer need 12 gauge, but 4 or 8. So that the power of the ammunition allows it to hit much further and knock down the dropped ammunition or destroy it.
      For clips, use thicker threads (possibly even a 1 mm cable) and tie them into a network of 12 or more rays with a spiral jumper.
      1. +3
        16 June 2024 08: 35
        I'll add. Ammunition with linked buckshot in this caliber will greatly reduce the length of the barrel and make the weapon lighter.
        You can do something similar for a grenade launcher (ammunition).
        1. +1
          16 June 2024 13: 08
          Quote: abrakadabre
          I'll add. Ammunition with linked buckshot in this caliber will greatly reduce the length of the barrel and make the weapon lighter.
          You can do something similar for a grenade launcher (ammunition).

          Ammunition (of great power and, accordingly, weight) in such a caliber, and even in a lightweight weapon (the lighter the “barrel”, the stronger the recoil impulse) will break your collarbone in one go.
        2. +3
          16 June 2024 14: 53
          Quote: abrakadabre
          and lighten the weapon.

          Colleague, do not forget that there is such a thing as recoil impulse and recoil energy... you reduced, for example, the mass of the weapon by 20%, the impulse will increase by the same thing.. but the energy will increase by almost 50%...
          Quote: abrakadabre
          will greatly reduce the barrel length

          Do not forget that with a short barrel, the propellant charge (also known as different types of gunpowder and, as a rule, nitroglycerin) will still not burn completely with all the consequences. Therefore, going to extremes is not a good idea feel
          1. 0
            16 June 2024 16: 34
            Quote from Enceladus
            Therefore, going to extremes is not a good idea.

            I'll give you another 5 kopecks. Apparently the system will be single-barrel and single-shot. With all other options, this is an overwhelming and unreliable monster.
      2. +1
        16 June 2024 09: 13
        Will I surprise you if I say that the weight of a 4-caliber charge did not exceed 50 grams? And 12-gauge supermagnums also shoot 65 grams. But there are few people willing because of the strong impact. And if they were ever relevant, it was during the era of black powder.
        1. +2
          16 June 2024 11: 46
          The load in a supermagnum is large, but the volume for the bullet/damaging element is small. This means you can’t stuff shot or nipples in there. For the application under discussion, a shot at the speed of a BOPS is not necessary. You need to throw a volume and mass that can hold a lot of shot or a drop-down net, as described in the article. And to shoot down higher-altitude drones or throw aside fairly massive freely dropped charges, you need a large impulse and size of the shot cloud/network at a distance of up to 100-150 m. 12 gauge is not enough for this.
          1. +1
            16 June 2024 18: 14
            There is a place there. If you use rolling and remove the additional wad. There are also 89 mm sleeves. You don't need a lot of shot; you won't be able to shoot it without a gun carriage.
            1. 0
              16 June 2024 18: 39
              An ordinary signal flare launcher SPSh-1/44 will compete with you. Like the KS-23 carbine. Both models are in 4 gauge. An under-barrel grenade launcher of even larger caliber. None of the above requires a machine for shooting.
              1. +1
                16 June 2024 18: 57
                In the 90s, I saw a flare gun fire a weakened 20 caliber cartridge through an insert. The guy almost shit himself because of the recoil. The flare gun has a small powder charge. An underbarrel grenade launcher fires a grenade at 70 m/s, and the pellets fly at 300 meters per second. If you want to launch a grenade at that speed, you'll need something like a Puteaux gun.
                The TOZ-123 (the closest relative of the KS-23) fired a 45 gram shot shell. That is, a regular 12 caliber magnum.
              2. 0
                18 July 2024 18: 01
                With KS-23 it’s a good idea, there you can deploy a normal network over 5 square meters, it’s just a matter of range. And EMP ammunition in this caliber, EMNIP, is possible.
                IMHO hi
        2. +3
          16 June 2024 16: 50
          Quote: Vlad2012
          I will surprise you if I say that the weight charge 4 calibers were not much higher 50 grams? And 12-gauge supermagnums also shoot 65 grams.

          Are you giving the correct numbers? Still, “charge” and “projectile” are not the same thing. 50-65 gram gunpowder, this is overkill.
          1. 0
            16 June 2024 18: 09
            Artillerymen probably had one. Then there is "shot charge", "shot charge". "Charge of buckshot". Powder and shot charges. Hunters carried measured charges of powder and shot with them. "Shot charge" can be used to designate loading a hunting rifle with shot or buckshot instead of a solid bullet. That is, depending on the context.
            1. +1
              16 June 2024 18: 32
              Quote: Vlad2012
              Hunters carried measured charges of gunpowder and shot with them.

              Yes, I know the weights. But your text is not entirely clear to ignorant people. It would have been better to indicate that: “The weight of the shot charge.”
      3. 0
        16 June 2024 10: 36
        So we come to the conclusion that fighters need to be provided with grenade launchers such as the GP-25 or GPR-20, and grapeshot ... in the case of the GPR-20, you can use fragmentation ammunition with a non-contact fuse! By the way, in the SVO, fighters also use the GP-25 without machine guns! You can make a GP-25 without a butt with a pistol and underbarrel grip, or with a disposable barrel (fiberglass!) ... as long as the grenades are grapeshot! Even easier with the GPR-20! Such a "shot" (or even 2-3 ...) is thrown over your back before the "incident" and you go into battle with a machine gun! Shotguns? You will not be able to achieve any special "furor" from them! But you can use "for testing" pump-action carbines ... short-barreled and without a butt with 3-4 rounds in the "pump"! Again, I threw this "pump gun" over my back and grabbed the machine gun! The "future" is in automatic rifles... small-caliber (5,6 mm) and high-rate fire (for example, 1000-1200 v/m...) with an "intelligent" sighting system! Such a rifle will give an "imitation" of a "cloud" of buckshot better than any shotgun!
        1. 0
          16 June 2024 13: 17
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          So we come to the conclusion that the fighters need to be provided with grenade launchers like GP-25 or GPR-20, and grapeshots... in the case of the GPR-20, fragmentation ammunition with a proximity fuse can be used


          And if the you noticed the drone is not 30 meters above your head, but 5? You will beat your own people with your grenade. You won’t be constantly staring at the sky in battle. Since we're talking about a shrapnel grenade launcher as an additional weapon for a line shooter. This means you have little chance of seeing a drone from afar. And the operators will very quickly realize that it is necessary to fly up not from above, but at low altitude from a “slide”. Yes, and hitting a small maneuvering object ABOVE you with a grenade is not so easy, especially when you have only one shot, and the danger is great.
          Shrapnel ammo is good if you have a long-range detection system. But you won’t give it “in your hands”, it’s heavy and should be automatic, provide 360 ​​in azimuth and up to the zenith...

          You are right to note that the solution here is more likely to lie in automatic cards and individual means for the fighters. And heavy anti-aircraft weapons of the infantry. What it will be, a wheeled drone with a set of heavy weapons, an SUV, a buggy, an ATV, a stationary system on tripods - I don’t know. But it is obvious that a long-range detection system is needed, and strike systems of small-sized missiles with shrapnel and automatic canisters. A sort of mini-Tunguska.
          1. 0
            16 June 2024 14: 09
            In my comment I did not consider the issues of timely detection of UAVs... I only touched upon the "individual means" of fighters against drones, respectively, under the topic of the article! It is clear that the means of detecting UAVs should not be "based" on the backs of fighters! Although there is a "nuance" (!): recently appeared "individual backpacks" of electronic warfare and even drone detectors in the form factor of "walkie-talkie"! And forgive me for using the now "vulgar" expressions about "network-centric methods of warfare", but, someday, "network centrism" will reach the infantryman-assault trooper! And the fighter will promptly receive information about the location of drones, weapons, enemy infantry relative to himself! And then he will not have to "fear" his own grenade launcher! No. As for "heavy anti-aircraft weapons for infantry", even now they have begun to create "mobile air defense groups" to isolate local combat areas...
          2. 0
            11 August 2024 13: 50
            What if you notice a drone not 30 meters above your head, but 5?


            At the speed of a modern FPV drone, you won’t even have time to raise your weapon.
            1. 0
              12 August 2024 22: 18
              Quote: rait
              What if you notice a drone not 30 meters above your head, but 5?


              At the speed of a modern FPV drone, you won’t even have time to raise your weapon.


              That's why I'm talking about an automatic system with an autonomous detection system and an automatic canister.
      4. +3
        16 June 2024 16: 01
        They no longer need 12 gauge, but 4 or 8. So that the power of the ammunition allows it to hit much further and knock down the dropped ammunition or destroy it.

        Everything new is a well-forgotten old - clarification.
        1. +2
          17 June 2024 15: 58
          There is only one nuance: the butt of this thing serves only for aiming, and the recoil goes to a special oarlock on board the boat. Those. This is not for shoulder shooting, it is a stationary "musket".
    2. +1
      16 June 2024 08: 29
      Ten gauge or "duck" gun
      1. +2
        16 June 2024 08: 37
        Not even the tenth, but the 8th or 4th. Well, a corresponding shot for the grenade launcher.
        1. 0
          16 June 2024 09: 22
          With a short barrel, the shot will fly close and with great dispersion; the Americans had a grape shot for a grenade launcher and its effectiveness was 10 winds.
          1. +2
            16 June 2024 11: 53
            The described clip charge is just suitable for a shortened barrel. The Ministry of Internal Affairs even has ready-made carbines for caliber 4: rubber bullets and all kinds of “Bird cherry” are in this caliber. There is also production of ammunition. True, only for lighting and for the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Add for drones.
            You can attach a stock with a spring-loaded stop to a standard rocket launcher and test it. The 30 caliber standard grenade launcher is also worth considering.
            1. 0
              18 June 2024 14: 04
              You can attach a stock with a spring-loaded stop to a standard rocket launcher...

              Are you inventing a Faustpatron?)))
              And for a grenade launcher, they recently showed a 12-gauge insert barrel...
    3. +2
      16 June 2024 22: 01
      Of course that may be the case and so be it. Yet low tech and crude will still save lives in many cases. There should be no single magic bullet anti-fpv system, but a huge multitude of different systems, each with their own set of weaknesses.

      At the bottom of this pyramid of systems are the crude and low-tech systems such as shotguns. Above them multi barrel 5.45mm high rate of fire miniguns. Above those FLAK-like ammunition of a webbed variant. At various levels in the pyramid are a family of EW systems that do the bulk of the work. Somewhere else in the pyramid, anti-fpf fpv's. At the top of the pyramid various systems of hunter-killer aviation that patrol the skies to thin out drone swarms and provide troops below with a safer environment.
  7. 0
    16 June 2024 06: 57
    Eh, I wish I could make a machine gun for these cartridges....
    1. 0
      16 June 2024 08: 48
      There is such a thing. It is called AGS-17 and AGS-30 in the 30th caliber and AGS-40 in the 40th. These are easel options. There is a manual 30 caliber - ARGB.
  8. +2
    16 June 2024 07: 39
    Slowly...very slowly our military industry is moving to resolve this issue...deliveries of cartridges and guns to combat UAVs should have been organized yesterday.
    1. +1
      16 June 2024 07: 49
      Some of the guys I know who have a ticket and a license have long ago bought Saiga 12/s in 30 versions (12/76, i.e. magnums) or the like. Other manufacturers also equip the cartridges themselves and use them quite successfully. Therefore, the Ministry of Defense has finally begun to step back and regulate this issue. Regulate - so that military personnel have the right not only to purchase, but also to carry and transport (it seems like they are planning to introduce some acts), including those adjacent to the Defense Ministry (Ministry of Internal Affairs, RG, etc.), whose soldiers participate in the SVO. ... The details are still unknown... but if I knew, then it’s not obvious there’s no point in ranting about them yet
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      supplies of cartridges and guns to combat UAVs should have been organized yesterday.
  9. 0
    16 June 2024 07: 53
    The main thing here is that a downed drone with a warhead does not fall on the shooter’s head wink
    1. +2
      16 June 2024 08: 10
      Here is the question: usually drones now, when they lose connection, if they have already gone on an attack on the target, and if the electronics are working, but control is lost (propellers, etc.) - they send a command to detonate/fly autonomously where they were sent or the inertial fuse is triggered , if the electronics are covered, i.e. fucked - where it will fall. So you need to keep your distance. request
  10. +2
    16 June 2024 09: 27
    All this is very cool, if it had not been on the surface two years ago, but two factors cause concern. First: the article does not say a word about automating the process of countering drones, in other words, it does not say about the development of some kind of “automatic anti-drone machine gun(?) complex (conditionally) using grapeshot ammunition.” Damn, we live in the 21st century, what kind of “smooth-bore hunting rifles” are there in a military conflict of even medium intensity??? It’s just not funny anymore, considering that two whole (!!!) years have passed since the obvious appearance of this threat.
    And secondly: the cost of this ammunition raises questions, and as the author of the article rightly pointed out, the efficiency, i.e. the price/quality ratio. And also the fact that the developer and potential manufacturer of this miracle cartridge is not a state enterprise, if I am not mistaken. And a private owner-manufacturer is always interested and will always be interested first of all in profit from sales...
    1. 0
      16 June 2024 19: 14
      It seems you are right about the profit. The article does not contain photos of the shields with the results of shooting at distances from 20 meters with a step of 10 meters. It is unclear what kind of scattering the cartridge gives at the minimum and maximum distances. Also, the qualifications of the shooters and the probability of hitting different targets with one shot are not mentioned. They made it themselves, tested it themselves, declared it themselves (or will declare it) laughing ) that there are no analogues, everything is as always.
    2. +4
      17 June 2024 07: 58
      To carry out an analysis of the cost of a cartridge is not to prove the theorem of the company, the task is very simple, if not primitive. This is not a feasibility study for the Power of Siberia-2 project. In your opinion, profit for a private owner is bad. Techkreem must certainly operate at a loss, and then it will be correct and patriotic. Following your logic, Techkrim with its profits should step aside, and we will wait until the Ministry of Defense understands the need to have an anti-drone shotgun cartridge at the front, then it will understand the need for its production, because hunting samples are worse, then in the bowels of the Ministry of Defense a technical specification for its development and a program for its testing will be born and approved, then they will select qualified contractors to avoid the participation of fictitious and front companies, then they will conduct the competition itself and comparative tests of the samples, sum up the results of the competition and They will formalize it with a protocol, then negotiate with the winning contractor and conclude an agreement with him. And after paying the advance, the contractor will begin production. And in about 4 years we will finally see real Orthodox anti-drone cartridges made by the sovereign at the front! Great plan, sorry I can't shake your hand.
      1. -2
        18 June 2024 20: 00
        You are right in everything, this is exactly how ammunition for army weapons is chosen. If you hurry, you will make people laugh. The point is not in the cartridge, the point is that the shotgun is a civilian weapon for hunting and the tests that the army undergoes, shotguns did not pass and are not accepted for service, however and cartridges. It seems like they are needed, but to whom to give them, according to what standards, how to repair these trunks, there are no answers to these questions.
      2. 0
        5 July 2024 17: 53
        Quote: Slon1978
        In your opinion, profit for a private owner is bad.

        In my opinion, profit is an absolute evil. The only thing worse is the loan interest rate! But discussing political economy here is pointless.
        Quote: Slon1978
        Following your logic, Tekhkrim with its profit should...

        This is your logic, not mine. According to my logic, all enterprises producing weapons and ammunition for the army and other security agencies should be exclusively state-owned, five hundred percent state-owned! There should be no private companies in the military-industrial complex.
        The rest of your stream of mental images only confirms the sad “diagnosis”: many, even very intelligent people, have completely forgotten how to look at a problem from different sides...
  11. 0
    16 June 2024 11: 30
    all this is good ... but for some reason the troops constantly complain about the small number of smoothbores and cartridges for them
  12. +2
    16 June 2024 11: 37
    Here's an idea: shouldn't we mess up the antidrone?
    In the sense that he is a drone hunter.

    Attach a certain number of disposable guns to it (a sort of long smoothbore cartridge, possibly with electric ignition), which shoots in a drop-down net for about 10 meters.
    The main thing is that the recoil is small so that the drone does not lose stabilization.

    The application is something like this: it flies, looks for an enemy drone (possibly illuminated by a laser from the ground), flies up to these 10m and shoots a net to confuse the enemy.
    1. 0
      16 June 2024 12: 25
      There will be no one to manage them. This will require many operators to be transferred from attack drones to interceptors, with a corresponding reduction in the number of attack drones.
      1. +1
        16 June 2024 15: 56
        If with laser illumination, the drone can be autonomous. If the laser operator is confident, he presses the button and the drone flies approximately in the direction of the illumination - the azimuth and elevation angle can be taken from the laser, and possibly also the range (it can also be measured with a laser, but this is not a fact because the enemy drone is small and nimble).
        As the drone flew up to the enemy, by the reflected beam he could already see where to shoot.

        However, there is still a problem with detection. The small drone is no longer visible or heard from 200 meters away. And 100 is practically the reset distance.
    2. 0
      11 August 2024 13: 53
      It has been used for a long time. Only the reticle is not fired, but essentially reset.
  13. 0
    16 June 2024 12: 12
    Should each soldier be issued some disposable simple shotguns? As long as the number is large enough to form a large scale, it can also improve the effectiveness of resisting drone attacks?
  14. +1
    16 June 2024 14: 39
    I want a folding anti-aircraft sight for a Kalash,
    and so that the comrade warrant officer teaches how to shoot with anticipation.
    1. +2
      16 June 2024 15: 05
      My friend... weren’t you even taught to shoot from 5.45 and 7,62 to 39, leading to a normal battle and to know the excesses at distances from 100 to 400 meters? This is still being done in training. And at the drone attack distance, the trajectory is exceeded. I even posted numbers from 2-3cm thin in some topic from Balkala, i.e. you can safely shoot 1, and if 3, then under the drone, it’s even more convenient, the target is better visible - you won’t miss... the drone flies fpv at a speed of a couple of meters per second, and during an attack there will be minimal angular velocities (vertical and horizontal). If you were taught to shoot with a line and hit it, then it’s an almost ideal target... There’s only 1 detail... stress and how prepared you are for such things... Therefore, it should be automatic - i.e. during practical training.
      1. 0
        16 June 2024 16: 14
        TA-dah! Only the sight line and the barrel axis are not in the same line. And it turns out two “ZEROS”, near and far. They don't teach this in school.
        Or do they teach?
        1. +1
          16 June 2024 16: 20
          They teach... just like they teach... from 100 to 400 you must be able to do it at any range with any scope setting... both 5.45 and 7,62 - the excesses are different there... after all, it’s not always for breastfeeding you have to shoot, but the target is often smaller. Well, naturally leading to a normal battle.
          Personally, it’s easier for me on 4, not on P, knowing the excess - you aim at the target, guided by the width of the front sight.
  15. -2
    16 June 2024 15: 58
    Yes, we made such cartridges ourselves. For such a cartridge you could get a big headache under the Union.
    1. +1
      16 June 2024 16: 23
      I wonder where this happened? Never had such a problem... there are people everywhere lol I actually had them lying around at home and as a father I played with a machine gun belt of 100 to PKm BZT mixed with tracers (3 through 1) lol And my grandfather has a captured Mauser (infantry) 98, with which he fought through half of the Patriotic War soldier
  16. +2
    16 June 2024 17: 28
    Copper-coated steel pellets would be better, but the range of destruction would most likely decrease. 25-35 meters max.
    1. 0
      16 June 2024 18: 45
      Quote: AlexFly
      Copper-plated steel pellets would be better

      What, interestingly, is better?
      1. 0
        18 June 2024 16: 15
        the speed is higher and the dispersion is greater, the steel is not lead - it does not deform..
  17. +2
    16 June 2024 20: 42
    Yesterday I looked at the call sign of a lawyer on YouTube. In the first run, it was broken by FPV drones. That's what he was talking about about the guy who was shooting at drones from a pump. This guy was buried. The lawyer asked a competent question: “Why is it not like this with us?” (in the sense of drones like feces).
    Ceterum censeo Washingtago delendam esse
  18. +1
    17 June 2024 12: 08
    The men are going on an assault, but they still take a shotgun with them. For stormtroopers, it would be better to take cartridges with a Blondeau bullet. No vest will help against broken ribs and anything else you can do
  19. 0
    17 June 2024 13: 40
    If you go further, you can make an automatic turret for armored vehicles with a smoothbore gun mounted on it for shooting at drones. Destroying a drone at a short distance of up to several tens of meters will not be a problem for armored vehicles
  20. 0
    19 June 2024 19: 26
    Now we need a machine gun with 2 barrels, like from films about a dirty future.
  21. -1
    22 June 2024 16: 06
    It would be good to try using micro darts packed in a cartridge container. If they also rotate, the accuracy will improve greatly.
    1. 0
      26 July 2024 20: 33
      What will rotate? A container of darts or the darts themselves?
  22. 0
    11 August 2024 17: 52
    I would say that both the idea and the implementation are very elegant, and as they say in aviation: beautiful, it should fly.
  23. 0
    13 August 2024 14: 32
    Gun cartridges for combating UAVs

    Good deal. To help our guys on the battlefield.
    Now we are waiting for a smooth-bore machine gun with a bunch of cartridges, which will mow down the drones with a burst of buckshot.