Who wants a free coffin from Mirage?

106
Who wants a free coffin from Mirage?

In the first lines you can immediately say: real. But almost disposable. Just like that, and then let’s start arguing.

In general, the Mirage 2000 is a very old aircraft. He began his service back in 1978 and is still serving, the only question is where and how.




And it’s immediately worth noting that the Dassault company did not indulge its clients with modifications. So, with the exception of the electronics that changed from time to time, this is still the same old Mirage from the 70s with all its shortcomings, the main of which is a more than modest set of weapons and a far from new radar.

But the airplane somehow quietly and peacefully survived until the present time. There weren’t enough stars in the sky, the stars were very far away, but our hero also flew in the air forces of countries that, let’s say, were not eager to go to the front line. The exception here is India; in the Air Force of this country, the Mirage-2000 participated in wars with Pakistan and carried out combat missions there. But again - on the sidelines.

But this plane succeeded in plane crashes. From 1978 to 2023, 59 cases of Mirage losses were recorded, but only TWO of them were due to combat reasons.


In August 1995, the Serbs, using Igla MANPADS, persuaded the Mirage to permanently land, and in 2016, rebels in Yemen somehow landed another plane. All other planes, like hamsters, self-destructed in a variety of ways that had nothing to do with the conduct of hostilities.

The Mirage 21 arrived in the 2000st century like a plane, as they say, of the third row. The French really didn’t bother themselves with modernizations, and users such as Peru, Qatar, Greece and Egypt didn’t particularly insist on them.


The only valuable moment was the adaptation of the aircraft to carry the high-precision SCALP missile. And this is, perhaps, the only trump card of the Mirage-2000 today. Otherwise, it is an outdated aircraft of the MiG-29 level, although in the Kargil the war It was the MiG-29s that covered the Mirages so that they wouldn’t be turned into cutlets by the Pakistani -16s.

And just the other day, Mr. Macron said that he would give Kyiv exactly these planes. AND weapon. And will train pilots.

In general, of course, it’s a sin to judge, but since his wedding Macron has not been considered adequate by everyone. That is, quite a long time ago. And this “strengthening” of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Air Force is really something like this, because the “Mirages” will not be able to really portray anything.

Back in 2010, during the Garuda-2010 exercises, Mirage-2000 training battles took place against the Su-30MKI. India was represented at these exercises by aces from Squadron-2, really pilots of a very high, if not the highest, class. Before that, they quite successfully fought with the entire range of NATO fighters, including even the F-22, as part of the Red Flag exercises.

Indian pilots in the skies of France met not with newcomers, but with the same aces in terms of training, pilots of the Stork squadron, who were also helped by colleagues on Rafales. The Rafales did not take part in the battles then, but neutralized the advantage of the Su-30MKI in radars by illuminating Indian fighters with their radars.


Did not help. The Su-30MKI won all the battles against the Mirage-2000 with the Rafale behind it. As a result, Air & Cosmos magazine wrote a very laudatory article about Russian fighters, meaningfully titled in one word - “Power!”

And now THIS must go to Ukraine in order... And what about “in order”?


To do this, you need to understand how and with what Macron is going to benefit Zelensky. And to do this, it is enough to study the river that Macron pushed on the day of the 80th anniversary of the landing of the Allied troops in Normandy by the TF1 and France 2 channels.

“Peace cannot be achieved at the cost of Ukraine’s capitulation! Who dares to say that Russia will stop there? We are sure of the opposite, and Russia is on our borders.”


Of course, it would be very interesting to look at the faces of representatives of Germany, Belgium, Spain and Switzerland, which also border France, but, apparently, such passages from Macron no longer frighten anyone. Well, if Macron meant the borders of NATO, then everything is even more prosaic - it’s as if NATO ended up at the borders of Russia, and not vice versa.

But in Europe, which has finally gone somewhat wrong, such things are already common.

In addition, Macron announced that “Ukraine will receive enough support to resist, but in a way that avoids an escalation of the war. We are under no circumstances waging war with Russia and its people.”

An equally interesting point, that is, the European gentlemen will throw wood on the fire so that it burns, but does not burn out completely. And yes, France is not at war with the Russians! Therefore, Kyiv will receive Mirage 2000-5 aircraft, and France will train pilots for these aircraft.

And here everything is not smooth. It has already been leaked to the media that the so-called preparation will take six months. And thus, “by the end of the year the pilots will be ready for flights.”

In general, for the three hundred and thirty-third time we will not waste time on saying again that six months is nothing, that it is also necessary to train engine specialists, instrument technicians, gunsmiths, hydraulics and so on, because Ukrainian aviation If specialists approached, it was at exhibitions. This is all clear and understandable. Let's talk about the plane, since we've already finished talking about politics.

Macron promised to give back Mirage 2000-5. Yes, these are the XNUMXs, at the end of which the “fifth” went to the French Air Force, and in the export version to the Air Forces of Taiwan and Qatar.


In fact, this is nothing more than the Mirage-2000S with some changes.

The engine remained the same, at least, what are the differences between the SNECMA M53-P20 turbofan engine and the SNECMA M53-P2, only experts can say, because there are practically no differences in performance characteristics. The afterburner thrust increased by as much as 3 kN. Otherwise the performance characteristics are identical.

The avionics have been changed. In the “fifth” there were five multifunctional displays, which was not the case in 2000C. We installed a new RDY radar, which “looked” at 130 km, which is almost twice as much as the previous RDM radar. The radar made it possible to simultaneously track up to eight targets and fire at up to four of them. The new radar also had several air-to-surface operating modes.

Now some will begin to chuckle skeptically, but, first of all, let me remind you: this is 1992! And then everything looked pretty good. Now, of course, there is melancholy and sadness, but this is only the beginning of the circus performance!

The funny thing here is that almost half of the remaining 2000-5 aircraft in the French Air Force (including outside it, at the base in Djibouti) are 2000C and 2000-3 upgraded to this level! That is, we add another 10-12 years to the age.


Armament. The defense complex remained from 2000C, that is, at the level of the 80s of the last century. It was slightly improved for export sales, the difference being a new automatic machine for shooting heat traps. Otherwise, everything is the same, only the ICMS Mk 2 electronic warfare system was able to be placed inside the fuselage, which made it possible to move away from container placement and free up three suspension points.

The range of weapons also did not change much; MICA and SCALP missiles were added. Yes, it is valuable.

In general, the airplane is not bad, capable of satisfying not very strict demands. The Indian Air Force has been flying since 1982, and nothing! True, they are already in the role of bombers, but they fly and fight!

But this is India, which has been relying on French technology for a long time. But our case is a little different. We have a hodgepodge of aircraft that were awaiting disposal, but you know, it’s an expensive and troublesome business. Therefore, it is easier for Macron to make a nice gesture and give Kyiv a certain amount of aircraft junk, saving himself from the headache of disposal.

How many? It is not known for certain, but experts say that there are no more than 40 aircraft of these modifications left, scattered across different air bases and expectedly in varying degrees of combat readiness.

And here the question arises: what can the Mirage be used for in the conditions of Ukraine?

Let's start with the fact that the Mirage is food for Russian fighters and air defense systems. There will be no difficulties with its destruction, because the plane is not new and has long been prescribed in all textbooks and manuals. In addition, we are well aware of all the strengths and weaknesses of the Frenchman, and, as they say, on the subject.

Therefore, of course, we are not talking about any such operations to strike deep into Russian territory. This means an attack exclusively on the front line and the front-line zone, nothing more. SCALP? Perhaps, but the matter is quite risky, so again, they will work with cover and safe distances.

Regarding cover, the thought immediately arises of the supplied F-16s. Here Clearing the skies for the F-16 has begun a number of considerations were expressed, and, it must be said, not without basis. In fact, F-16s will be able to work quite well with Mirages, ensuring their relative safety, provided that arrangements are made to allow NATO aircraft to operate.

It turns out the following chain: counteraction to our air defense forces gives rise to the possibility of operation of F-16 fighters, which will be guided according to data from AWACS aircraft, strategic reconnaissance UAVs, satellites, and so on; Mirages will be able to use the same data when striking military targets. This is generally a serious situation, it has already been said that the NATO system for receiving intelligence data and issuing target designations to aircraft that can operate in it, or maybe F-16s and Mirage-2000s, can be effective.

But there is an unpleasant nuance here.

Firstly, who said that the idea of ​​​​suppressing Russian air defense systems using combined strikes by UAVs and tactical missiles would fail? Yes, several complexes were lost, but there is something to cover them and, most likely, cover will be organized.

Secondly, the R-37 flew 200 km at a speed of 6 Mach and still flies. And the R-37M flies 300 km. And if earlier it was a miracle weapon that was carried exclusively by our monster MiG-31, now the Su-57, Su-35, and even the Su-30MK2 can be equipped with such a thing. Which is especially upsetting, because you can’t see from any satellite what’s hanging there under the wings, and whether it’s time to run away from the square, dropping the tanks. And the R-77 missile is not much inferior (if at all, it needs to be checked) to the best American AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles, that is, even at close ranges not everything is so simple.


But the main thing is that Russian aircraft have the advantage of a “long arm”, and nothing can be done about it; NATO does not have missiles like the R-37M. When they appear, then we’ll talk, but for now the balance is somewhat not in favor of the Ukrainian side.

When it came to the use of F-16 fighters by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, there was a case, I expressed the opinion that yes, their use is possible. Especially if there are modifications to Block 50/52, yes, these “Falcons” will flounder. There are chances.

But it’s very difficult to say what a French old man from the nineties can portray. But what can we say if its target radar has an EPR of 1 sq.m. gives a picture from 140 km, and the Su-35 radar does this from a distance of 270-300 km? He is practically blind, this “Mirage”!!!

It’s not for nothing that during the exercises that “Garuda-2010” the targets of “Mirage” were highlighted by “Rafale”, oh, not in vain! It is clear that the Mirage radar is no longer suitable for anything in a modern military conflict. And this is the main problem, although the hypothetical confrontation between French and Russian fighters is worth talking about separately.

So, that's kind of the bottom line. An old aircraft, originally from the seventies of the last century, modernized according to the level of technology of the nineties of the last century, with a frankly weak radar, with a small assortment of not very modern weapons, with extremely poorly trained pilots and even more poorly trained technical personnel - what is this? Weapons or just a way of free disposal?

Actually, it's more like the second one. Yes, the Mirage will be able to take on a SCALP suspension, fly up to the front line and launch there. Everything else will be done for him in terms of management from the relevant NATO command centers. But “carrying out a launch” is no longer an easy task. Undoubtedly, two Su-24s converted to Storm Shadow were able to cause some damage, but lately everything has been quiet and calm, no victory reports from that side.

We learned to neutralize. I agree, this is not easy, it requires well-coordinated efforts of many calculations and crews, but in reality nothing is impossible.

It would be good if a Ukrainian pilot could quietly, at low altitude, sneak up within launch range and fire a SCALP. And then try to go home. But what will happen if his Mirage falls into the field of view of Russian radars? How can you even fight enemy fighters if you are so blind that you cannot see them at the moment the missile is launched? And with the rocket itself, everything is not so simple...

In general, it was not in vain that the well-known poisonous journalists from the French Charlie Hebdo painted such a caricature that you saw at the very beginning. Even they understand perfectly well that a Mirage with an untrained (and 6 months is not a long time) pilot is really a guaranteed coffin for this very pilot.

However, should the French feel sorry for the Ukrainians?
106 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. 24+
    16 June 2024 05: 36
    Quote: Roman Skomorokhov
    “Mirages” won’t be able to really depict anything
    Can they launch a cruise missile? They can. What about UMPC? And UMPC too. Nothing more is required from them
    1. +6
      16 June 2024 08: 01
      It is unpretentious to the runway, maneuverable, high-speed, universal - it can also be used to protect airspace. Fifty cars in the UAE are in very good condition. For the Su-24, Su-25, Su-27 it is too tough.
      Easier to maintain and cheaper than the F-16.
      1. -3
        16 June 2024 08: 14
        can also be used to protect airspace
        It has already been said here that the F-16 is being prepared specifically to fight our FABs with UMPC
      2. +5
        16 June 2024 12: 32
        Su-24, Su-25
        Do you seriously think that a bomber and attack aircraft will be sent to intercept the fighter?
      3. +1
        16 June 2024 13: 50
        The SU-24 is a bomber, the SU-25 is an attack aircraft, but the SU-27 is still tough. They were cracking like nuts during exercises in France in the 90s. This is no obstacle for the old SU-27.
        1. -7
          16 June 2024 14: 27
          Quote: forester
          but the SU-27 is still up to scratch.

          Are there many SU-27s in the Russian VKS? Well, and pilots for them?
          1. +2
            16 June 2024 18: 35
            Quote: Practitioner23354df
            Are there many SU-27s in the Russian VKS?

            The Su-27SM3 modification still has enough. According to avionics, this is the level of the Su-30SM.
            1. 0
              16 June 2024 18: 38
              Quote: bayard
              The Su-27SM3 modification still has enough. According to avionics, this is the level of the Su-30SM.

              Thank you for the educational program.
        2. +5
          17 June 2024 01: 22
          This is no obstacle for the old SU-27.

          Yes, these performance characteristics were given to you and Roman. First of all, it is a platform that carries missiles. And he will not turn on the locator, except perhaps just before launch. The situation will be transmitted to him from the AWACS. And if it goes low, then against the background of the ground, the mutual detection range will be equal. And the R-37 missiles will have to be left on the ground as unnecessary. And the car is decent, otherwise the Israelis would not have copied its “grandfather” Mirage III at one time. And the Arentines fought well with the British on them.
          The conclusion is that this is quite a serious matter. The tactics of the groups are important here - and for the enemy (the advisers) it is not at all blockbuster, but Jesuitical. Competent. Some use bait to lure them to the limit of the radius, some engage in combat in an ambush, and some finish off the enemy who is leaving on the last drops of kerosene.
          1. +1
            17 June 2024 13: 26
            What was the point then in changing it to Rafal, which is head and shoulders above the Mirage 2000, if it is just a platform.
            1. +2
              17 June 2024 17: 31
              MBDA Meteor entered service in 2013, AIM-120C-5 in 2000. Until the end of the 90s, maneuverable air combat was a mandatory component of air warfare. Even now, a significant portion of fighter aircraft are armed with short- and medium-range missiles. Long-range missile launchers also spread during this period.
              1. 0
                18 June 2024 07: 23
                I didn't understand your message.
                Mirage 2000 carries and used SCALP-EG, carries MICA.
                Surely it can carry Meteor too.
                Those. the same as the next generation Rafal aircraft.
                1. +2
                  18 June 2024 07: 31
                  Close-in maneuverable air combat ceased to be mandatory after the appearance of Rafal. Long-range missiles also showed themselves quite late. T.N. the “just a platform” concept appeared at the turn of 2010-2020. Today in the West, when forming requirements for the 6th generation, no one will create anything similar to Rafal.
                  1. 0
                    18 June 2024 07: 39
                    Got it.
                    Judging by the concepts and information videos, the new fighter (within the framework of FCAS) will be larger than the Rafale and have an internal compartment.

                    But maintain some continuity: 2 engines and have both land and deck modifications.
          2. -1
            17 June 2024 18: 48
            Quote: dauria
            And on them (Mirages) the Arentines fought well with the British.
            Mirages did not “fight” the British at all!
            by type of aircraft according to their combat missions - 1 Airmachi, 3 Pukara, 2 Mirages, 11 Daggers and 16 Skyhawks.
            At the same time, an “assessment” was given of the effectiveness of the Mirages’ actions and their efforts to cover Argentine strike aircraft:
            without providing air cover to the strike units (4 Mirage sorties were lost in vain).

            If this is considered “not bad”, then what is “bad”?
            1. +3
              17 June 2024 19: 42
              Mirages did not “fight” the British at all!

              Dagger is the Israeli Mirage-5. And the battle took place over the squadron with Harriers. It's just that the Argentinean sidewinders were an old version, requiring entry into the rear hemisphere. And the British have the same sidewinders, capable of capturing a target from any angle (including from the front). Can you imagine the result?
              1. +1
                17 June 2024 19: 50
                Quote: dauria
                Dagger is the Israeli Mirage-5

                Thanks for the edit. But Dagger is Mirage III, not "5".
                1. 0
                  18 June 2024 07: 34
                  Mirage 5 is a simplified Mirage III in terms of radio electronics, but with a greater range and combat load.
                  Mirage 5 was intended for Israel.
                  When France refused to supply these aircraft to Israel, Israel built its own based on Mirage 5 documentation.
                  1. 0
                    18 June 2024 17: 09
                    ... which there were called Kfir (Lion Cub), and in Argentina - “Dagger”.
                    And the Kfira was also equipped with an engine from the Phantom, J79.
                    1. 0
                      18 June 2024 17: 51
                      Kfir and Dagger are different aircraft.
                      For the Israelis, Dagger is Nesher.
              2. 0
                17 June 2024 23: 50
                Quote: dauria
                It's just that the Argentinean sidewinders were an old version, requiring entry into the rear hemisphere. And the British have the same sidewinders, capable of capturing a target from any angle (including from the front)...

                And this is not important. The Harrier was faster than the Mirage in positioning itself to launch the anti-aircraft missile. The Harrier turned faster. The result would not have changed.
                1. 0
                  18 June 2024 00: 01
                  OK. We will give the Argentines all-aspect missiles, full tanks and our own shipborne radars, which give the situation. And we’ll put the British in “nimble” Harriers with old missiles and dry tanks, barely on the way back, without prompts from the ground from the radar. This would be shooting ducks at a shooting range with impunity.
                  1. +1
                    18 June 2024 00: 40
                    Quote: dauria
                    We will give the Argentines all-aspect missiles, full tanks and our own shipborne radars, which give the situation. And we’ll put the British in “nimble” Harriers with old missiles and dry tanks, barely on the way back, without prompts from the ground from the radar. This would be shooting ducks at a shooting range with impunity.

                    Why waste time on trifles? Let's take away the missiles and guns from the Harriers altogether.
          3. 0
            17 June 2024 22: 38
            Yes, these performance characteristics were given to you and Roman. First of all, it is a platform.

            That's for sure. And there are air battles here. It will wait until there is no one in the sky. It will jump out. It will release the winged one and go home. Just like the SU-24. The machine may be outdated, but it will add headaches.
          4. 0
            17 June 2024 23: 58
            Quote: dauria
            And he will not turn on the locator, except perhaps just before launch.

            So they will find him on the way and attack him.
            Quote: dauria
            The situation will be conveyed to him from the AWACS.

            And AWACS will generally be a priority target. How long does it take to fly?
            Quote: dauria
            if it goes low, then against the background of the ground the mutual detection range will be equal.

            1. Why is the mutual detection range equal?
            2. Such a tactic is obviously a losing one for a low-flying aircraft, even with the same mutual detection range.
            Quote: dauria
            And the R-37 missiles will have to be left on the ground as unnecessary.

            Do you really want the R-37 not to be used?
            1. 0
              18 June 2024 00: 12
              All questions in order
              So they will find him on the way and attack him.

              Learn radar
              And AWACS will generally be a priority target. How long does it take to fly?

              How much are you willing to pay? If the squadron has two fighters, then it won’t last long. He is protected by his own people. And air defense and fighters.
              . Why is the mutual detection range equal?

              Same thing - learn radar, not advertising tricks from manufacturers
              2. Such a tactic is obviously a losing one for a low-flying aircraft, even with the same mutual detection range.

              Tell this to the downed Syrians on the MiG-23 and even the MiG-25P.
              This is exactly how the Jews beat them. "On live bait" from above from behind. They themselves walked ahead.
              Do you really want the R-37 not to be used?

              I want them to fight competently. That's all.
              1. -2
                18 June 2024 01: 01
                Quote: dauria
                Learn radar

                Now, if you learn radar, you will find out that for a long time now, for radar radars, the oncoming range (in PPS) has made almost no difference against the background of the ground or free space. You don't even need to learn radar. All you need to know is where this quote comes from:
                The range of the RLPK in free space and against the background of the ground is almost the same and depends on the aircraft’s flight altitude, the attack hemisphere and amounts to...

                Quote: dauria
                How much are you willing to pay? If the squadron has two fighters, then it won’t last long. He is protected by his own people. And air defense and fighters.

                And 40N6 and 9M82MD don’t matter how many fighters there are and what kind of air defense there is to guard that AWACS. And for the R-37M this is also not very important.
                Quote: dauria
                Same thing - learn radar, not advertising tricks from manufacturers

                So from the radar it follows that for a modern radar there will be no alignment in the opposite direction (at PPS), since there will be practically no loss in range. I even quoted above.
                Quote: dauria
                Tell this to the downed Syrians on the MiG-23 and even the MiG-25P. This is exactly how the Jews beat them. "On live bait" from above from behind. Themselves walked below in front

                How dense you are in the topic under discussion, dauria! You gave an example of tactics against a side whose radars do not (poorly) identify targets against the background of the ground. This is how it was then with the locators of the Syrian MiG-21, MiG-23MS and MiG-23MF. Now in PPS there is practically no difference against the background of the earth or in free space.
                1. 0
                  18 June 2024 07: 20
                  For the R-37M, is it important from what distance it is launched at the target? And does she maneuver?
                  1. 0
                    18 June 2024 23: 25
                    Important. AWACS is a non-maneuverable target. The radar antenna does not improve aerodynamics.
                    1. 0
                      19 June 2024 07: 56
                      I am responding to both of your comments.
                      It's important

                      Those. if a rocket is launched from the maximum launch distance, then by the end of the flight it will itself be low-maneuverable?
                      And the AWACS can try to escape and maneuver?

                      What is a cover group?

                      I can only assume that the AWACS will be covered by a pair or several pairs of stealth fighters.

                      An attacking group of stealth fighters will be detected by AWACS located further than the launch distance of long-range airborne missiles.
                      The AWACS will leave, and the fighters covering it and those deployed in front of it will engage in battle with the attackers.

                      For attacking stealth fighters, the opportunity to hit AWACS is to get within launch range without being detected by AWACS.

                      I could be wrong, but it seems like this is the situation the opposing sides should bet on.
              2. 0
                18 June 2024 10: 15
                What actions will be taken to counter the cover group and the AWACS itself if the R-37M is launched using the AWACS?
                1. 0
                  18 June 2024 23: 35
                  Quote: Maxim G
                  What actions will be taken to counter the cover group and the AWACS itself if the R-37M is launched using the AWACS?

                  The AWACS may try to escape if it sees the missiles and guesses that the missiles are flying to intercept it. What is a cover group? For example, in the summer of 1982, the Israeli Hokai had a pair of F-15A direct cover.
      4. +8
        16 June 2024 16: 01
        Apparently, Roman was either slapped on the head for old articles or paid a premium for new ones... for reference: the plane is almost 10 years younger than the author claims, although yes, it is 40 years old, but it is still malt than the first Su-27 aircraft (the modernization of which is the Su-35... and modernizations were going on all the time, for example, France modernized Indian aircraft in 2015, that experience and developments are there... and for dessert - Qatar sold all 12 of its fighters to Indonesia last year, they were in December (if memory is not correct) changes) came to France for a thorough overhaul and modernization with a delivery plan at the beginning of 2025, but this year Indonesia refused them, as they had already ordered 4 dozen Rafales... so in six months France will have 12 modernized and completely unbuilt aircraft on hand, and by a strange coincidence, around the time when Ukrainian pilots can complete their training... if my memory serves me right, the modernization included the installation of radars from Rafales, which seem no worse (in a word better, according to the Indians) than on our Su-35 ….
        1. 0
          17 June 2024 23: 45
          Quote: parma
          installation of radars from Rafales, which seem no worse (from the word better, according to the Indians) than on our Su-35

          The Hindus do not have Irbis.
          1. 0
            18 June 2024 08: 06
            And I didn’t claim that they have it, I said that they don’t like it... India at one time abandoned the Su-35, citing “low performance” and high maintenance costs with a shorter service life of the units. By the way, the Belka from the Su-57 was also rejected by the Indians at one time... by the way, India will modernize its Su-30 without our participation, including with the replacement of radars...
            1. 0
              18 June 2024 23: 44
              Quote: parma
              And I didn’t say that they have it, I said that they don’t like it...

              And if they don’t, then “dislike” is pointless.
              Quote: parma
              India at one time abandoned the Su-35, citing “low performance” and high maintenance costs with a shorter service life of the units.

              There is no such thing in aviation - “low performance”. The cost of operation and resource - it is impossible to determine if there is no aircraft. But the Indians don’t have Su-35.
              Quote: parma
              By the way, the Belka from the Su-57 was also rejected by the Indians at one time...

              The Indians could not reject Belka because they had not tested it.
              Quote: parma
              By the way, India will modernize its Su-30 without our participation, including replacing radars...

              Let them dig deeper. But for now there is nothing to change...
              1. 0
                19 June 2024 06: 59
                Well, we don’t count those tests as part of the tender? Again, the cost of operation and service life of the aircraft can be determined based on the purchase price of the contract - according to the Indian side, the Su-35 itself is cheaper than the Rafal, but the cost, taking into account the cost of maintenance and pilot training specified in the contract, the entire life cycle was more expensive than that of the French cars or even an F-15, the latter, by the way, can carry more weapons... well, the engines, for example, have a shorter lifespan than Western vehicles, which was also stated in the commercial proposal.
                The Indians received data about the Belk as participants in the development program and abandoned the vehicle due to the fact that they considered the characteristics of the aircraft, including the radar, to be insufficient.
                Regarding modernization, India may well involve Western countries or Israel in modernization, and most likely the modernization will turn out to be quite good...
                Your overall position is strange, much like the author’s - “Indians are fools, they don’t want to take our equipment.” But you don’t want to analyze the possible reasons for the failure...
    2. -3
      16 June 2024 08: 04
      They can: the only problem is that they have to prepare the planes; pilots; engineers; The runway will take time and not six months, but Ukraine doesn’t have it. It doesn’t happen at the behest of a pike.
      1. -3
        16 June 2024 08: 16
        The only problem is that the planes are being prepared; pilots; engineers; The runway will take time
        Yes, they seem to have been prepared a long time ago in Denmark and, in my opinion, in the Netherlands
        1. +1
          16 June 2024 08: 53
          Quote: Dutchman Michel
          Yes, they seem to have been prepared a long time ago in Denmark and, in my opinion, in the Netherlands

          For such an authority, references like “yes, sort of”, “in my opinion,” look extremely unconvincing. There are official sources and idle speculation is not welcome here...
          1. +6
            16 June 2024 09: 16
            Latest articles in the style of official media, have you noticed a trend?
            1. +1
              16 June 2024 11: 06
              So obviously, they had a conversation and the Author was not inspired by the image of “royal hard labor” in our democratic and free state, yeah.
          2. -4
            16 June 2024 10: 52
            There are official sources and idle speculation is not welcome here
            You probably read the magazine "Funny Pictures"? There has been information about this for a long time. And from unreliable sources, there are rumors that this plane is already in Ukraine
      2. 14+
        16 June 2024 08: 25
        It will take time, not even six months, but Ukraine doesn’t have it

        Yes, it's been three years now.
      3. 13+
        16 June 2024 08: 34
        Where do you get the idea that Ukraine doesn’t have time? Are we there, smashing on all fronts, encircling Kyiv, taking Nikolaev and Odessa. Read again the speech of our angry one yesterday.
        1. 0
          17 June 2024 08: 33
          The chatter about the transfer of the F-16 is already in its second year, but they are not yet in Ukraine, the Mirage 2000 is a completely different aircraft, there are trained engineering pilots, there are no compatible control systems. This means that they won’t appear earlier than in a year; I’m not talking about the Trump factor and other black swans. Now answer yourself: does Ukraine have another year?
          1. 0
            17 June 2024 17: 33
            If Biden wins, Ukraine will have 5 years. Least.
      4. +2
        16 June 2024 10: 14
        There is no time, with a release of 500 km2 in six months, wow, wow, how much time.
  3. -11
    16 June 2024 05: 53
    Mirage!! Mirage? What a passage!!
    He is not alone, but not with me (And thank God) laughing
  4. -2
    16 June 2024 06: 05
    In my opinion, this is just a gesture of political support for Ukraine and French junk simply won’t get to it
    1. 16+
      16 June 2024 06: 17
      Another confusing article in the series: their weapons of the last century are “rare.....” but ours, from the same times, are “wow!”
      1. +7
        16 June 2024 06: 30
        Mirages have their own niche. Taking into account the fact that it can use MICA missiles, including active radar-guided MICA-EM, in conjunction with Swedish AWACS aircraft, it can be effective as an interceptor in the fight against cruise missiles and UAVs away from the front line. And if we talk about western Ukraine, then it can be used together with NATO AWACS located over the territory of Poland or Romania.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. -9
        16 June 2024 06: 35
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        but ours, from the same times

        has been modernized more than once.
        1. +9
          16 June 2024 07: 38
          Quote: Dart2027
          has been modernized more than once.

          Mirages have also been modernized more than once
          1. -8
            16 June 2024 09: 40
            Quote: BlackMokona
            also modernized more than once

            Have you tried to read the article?
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              2. 0
                16 June 2024 21: 08
                We are talking about Mirage 2000-5. Read the article carefully, everything is explained there.
  5. +6
    16 June 2024 06: 16
    It would be good if a Ukrainian pilot could quietly, at low altitude, sneak up within launch range and fire a SCALP.

    They write that the Mirage is capable of flying in automatic mode following the terrain at an altitude of 60 m.
    1. +2
      16 June 2024 12: 35
      They write that the Mirage is capable of flying in automatic mode following the terrain at an altitude of 60 m.
      And not only him. This option is also from the 70s of the last century.
      1. +1
        16 June 2024 20: 38
        If the enemy does not have AWACS, then in the current conditions it is very popular
    2. 0
      16 June 2024 21: 25
      The methods for detecting low flying cruise missiles and aviation (jets or drones) should improve. Can friendly EW units and other powerful emitters not be used to help illuminate these areas with bat chirps, adding another layer of data to process and use for AWACS and radar units on aircraft such as Mig-31, Su-57 and Su-35?
  6. +3
    16 June 2024 06: 32
    Well, firing Scalps and other Attacks on our territories from afar will do
  7. 18+
    16 June 2024 06: 39
    Again everyone was defeated, rubbish and blah, blah, blah. One thing is interesting to me, judging by the articles on VO, 98% of the military equipment of the Russian Federation is unique in the world. And the Western “analogues” nervously smoke on the sidelines. Attention to the question: why then are these articles about their “trash” and why have we not won yet?
    1. 14+
      16 June 2024 08: 33
      You're right. Our authors have already written about the “victory” syndrome in many domestic publications and broadcasts of Channels 1 and 2.
      However, the war is on, the dead (based on publications in
      Media in my region) exists every day. Yes, and Kyiv was not taken...
      1. +3
        16 June 2024 09: 06
        And we also collect money for our fellow villagers in the Northern Military District, believe me, right down to the self-tapping screws.
        1. -1
          16 June 2024 10: 58
          This kind of help wouldn't hurt. But compared to the costs of yours, it’s a drop in the bucket
  8. 12+
    16 June 2024 07: 17
    In general, the Mirage 2000 is a very old aircraft. He began his service back in 1978 and is still serving, the only question is where and how.

    In 1984 ....

    Why was this comment erased? winked
  9. 20+
    16 June 2024 07: 23
    I remember how they laughed here from the German Leopard-1 tank.
    After all, this junk is already 1965 years release. Well, a coffin on tracks, no less.

    And when the T-62 and even the T-55 were taken to the front, a bunch of articles were rolled out in earnest about how smart this decision was and how useful these tanks would be in battle.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. +5
    16 June 2024 07: 46
    For some reason our PO-2 comes to mind. How much trouble he brought to the Germans. So I would be careful not to make fun of Mirage. You can put a modern airborne radar on an airplane. It may be necessary to bomb day and night any flat areas suitable for take-off and landing of aircraft of any class. Also any railway stations and junctions. bully
  12. +8
    16 June 2024 07: 48
    somewhere I’ve already heard such junk and rubbish ((ahhh in the same place as Kyiv in three days
    1. +1
      16 June 2024 14: 16
      Quote from Mazunga
      (ahhh the same place as Kyiv in three days

      as the American general said.
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  13. +6
    16 June 2024 08: 01
    Quote from Mazunga
    somewhere I’ve already heard such junk and rubbish ((ahhh in the same place as Kyiv in three days

    They somehow forgot about the attack on Kharkov.
  14. +1
    16 June 2024 08: 17
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    can also be used to protect airspace
    It has already been said here that the F-16 is being prepared specifically to fight our FABs with UMPC

    Not with factories, but with Su-34.
    1. -3
      16 June 2024 08: 19
      Not with factories, but with Su-34
      They do not enter the air defense area of ​​responsibility, but only approach it
  15. 0
    16 June 2024 08: 23
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    Not with factories, but with Su-34
    They do not enter the air defense area of ​​responsibility, but only approach it

    Fabs fly 80 km. If the F-16 has aim-120d, then they can hit targets up to 180 km. Yes, under certain conditions a range of 180 km is achieved. Therefore, at a minimum, the danger of being shot down increases multiple times compared to what it is now. And our dryers sometimes throw hundreds of fabs a day. Do you really think that they will be shot down? So you won't get any missiles.
    1. +1
      16 June 2024 11: 56
      But in real life, in the same Syrian Iraq, Amraams were launched from a maximum distance of forty km.
    2. 0
      17 June 2024 23: 37
      Quote from Nesvoy
      If the F-16 has aim-120d, then they can hit targets up to 180 km

      Can not.
      Quote from Nesvoy
      Yes, under certain conditions a range of 180 km is achieved.

      Range of what and under what specific conditions? Can the F-16 fulfill these conditions in its unit?
  16. -1
    16 June 2024 08: 47
    . It has already been leaked to the media that the so-called preparation will take six months. And thus, “by the end of the year the pilots will be ready for flights.”

    And why do we have 6 years of training - they have 6 months? laughing
    1. +2
      16 June 2024 08: 52
      They do not teach from scratch, but prepare for a specific type of aircraft. 6 years is if you teach a pilot from scratch.
      1. 0
        16 June 2024 10: 56
        6 years is if you teach a pilot from scratch
        Four years of schooling for a pilot and five for an engineer. At least that’s how it was in the USSR
        1. +2
          16 June 2024 12: 23
          Before the Second World War, the USSR had 3 versions of the pilot training program. A full-fledged 3-year course for future commanders of flights, squadrons, and regiments; short - 1 year - just for promising pilots; ultra-short at 3 months. The technology, of course, has become more complex, but it is quite possible to train a pilot to intercept missiles and UAVs (without air combat) or strike the ground with long-range weapons.
          1. -1
            16 June 2024 14: 17
            Quote from: blackGRAIL
            Before the Second World War in the USSR there was

            Are you proposing to fight on planes of that time?
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. -3
    16 June 2024 09: 03
    Quote: Heda
    I remember how they laughed here from the German Leopard-1 tank.
    After all, this junk was produced in 1965. Well, a coffin on tracks, no less.

    And when the T-62 and even the T-55 were taken to the front, a bunch of articles were rolled out in earnest about how smart this decision was and how useful these tanks would be in battle.


    And they chuckled rightly. The “leopards” specifically screwed up.
    The difference is in how the “leopards” and our old “teshki” were and are used.

    Using an ancient tank with weak armor as a means of breaking through a well-fortified defense will only make people laugh. That's why dill made me laugh.
    And using even an old tank (there are huge piles of shells for it, they were produced a long time ago and they are actually free) for indirect fire on enemy infantry and trenches (saving on the depreciation of more modern equipment) is quite reasonable.
    1. 0
      16 June 2024 12: 50
      Quote: Illanatol
      Using an ancient tank with weak armor as a means of breaking through a well-fortified defense will only make people laugh. That's why dill made me laugh.

      Where did Ukrainians use Leo1, in what breakthroughs?? They were in reserve and still are.
      1. +1
        16 June 2024 14: 18
        Quote: karabas-barabas
        Where did Ukrainians use Leo1, in what breakthroughs??

        We remember their counter-offensive.
  19. -5
    16 June 2024 09: 18
    According to reviews in the foreign press, Zelensky’s pilots are not able to master the F-16 due to poor knowledge of the English language. How will they master Mirages if the French language is much more difficult?
  20. 10+
    16 June 2024 09: 58
    The most realistic use is as a carrier of SCALP missiles. Most likely, the existing SU-24s are thinned out, so an urgent replacement is needed. Moreover, MIRAGE-2000 is fully adapted for this missile.
    1. +1
      16 June 2024 14: 18
      Quote: A. Evert
      The most realistic use is as a carrier of SCALP missiles. Most likely, the existing SU-24s are thinned out, so an urgent replacement is needed.

      The only reasonable option.
      1. +2
        16 June 2024 18: 00
        But in reality there cannot be anything else. India is already using them as bombers. And the approximately identical Israeli KFIR is also now used primarily as a bomber.
  21. 11+
    16 June 2024 11: 03
    Another hat-teasing “outdated and useless”, only not from Ryabov, as usual, but, for some reason, from Skomorokhov. But a combat aircraft is always a combat aircraft, and woe to those who fall under its bombs and missiles, no matter how much you scoff about “flying coffins.”
  22. +4
    16 June 2024 12: 27
    They can launch and they are interoperable. Which means they are dangerous
  23. +3
    16 June 2024 14: 14
    And who said that Ukrainian pilots will actually be sitting in the cockpits, and not Western “volunteer” vacationers.
  24. +3
    16 June 2024 14: 28
    From the very first paragraphs the author is unmistakably identified. And this means that there is no point in reading further, because the blizzard is sweeping, sweeping...
  25. +1
    16 June 2024 14: 39
    Again buffoonery... Against this background, Ryabov’s articles already look like the height of professionalism and impartiality.
  26. +5
    16 June 2024 15: 38
    Yes, not the most modern, but quite a normal plane, if there is a trained pilot, it can cause trouble and there is no need for mischief, you can’t put air defense under every bush, but you can fire a rocket from afar. If only he could have looked at the scribbler when an aerial bomb or missile flew at him from above, maybe he would have become wiser if he had survived after that.
    1. +4
      16 June 2024 18: 03
      MIRAGE-2000 is good for its tasks (see above) and for its time. It is clear that this is now not an aircraft for establishing dominance in the skies, but it is suitable as a carrier of SCALP and bombs with a correction module.
      1. +2
        16 June 2024 18: 11
        This is exactly what I meant, it is clear that there will be few of them and they are outdated, but they can still do something
        1. +4
          16 June 2024 18: 13
          For the war that is now being waged in Ukraine, it is quite normal and it is at least inappropriate to engage in mischief-making, like “let’s break it up.”
  27. +2
    16 June 2024 19: 34
    Secondly, the R-37 flew 200 km at a speed of 6 Mach and still flies. And the R-37M flies 300 km. ....

    Apparently the author confused the R-33 and R-37. True, the R-33 flies at 120 km. And the R-37 isn’t flying anywhere. But you can’t argue with the fact that there is an R-37M.
  28. 0
    16 June 2024 21: 19
    I would very much like one, or to fly one. Offer their pilots a bounty, receive a small number of these, and then use them for aviation tourism next decade..
  29. BAI
    +4
    16 June 2024 23: 55
    De.bi.lism. This is not an insult. This is a diagnosis. Before this “coffin” collapses, he will have time to do so many things that no one will think enough. Our air defense will fail as always
    1. 0
      17 June 2024 19: 33
      Quote: BAI
      Our air defense will fail as always

      For the information of the "Black Cats": Our air defense is recognized by the amers themselves (!!!) as the best in the world...
      The problem is different: we do not (as it was in the Union) have a continuous radar field along the perimeter of the country. Hence such “prosers” when the LMS reaches Engels!
      But NATO air defense is at its best!!! They dill "Swift" across all of Europe, (until the poor guy fell from "exhaustion of the body" (the kerosene ran out!)) missed. It's good that at least he fell without hurting anyone. Otherwise, they would have sewn the "hand of Moscow" to him with white threads in unison. Shitcrats, what can we take from them, sick people! laughing
  30. 0
    17 June 2024 11: 05
    Quote: Calm_type
    But in real life, in the same Syrian Iraq, Amraams were launched from a maximum distance of forty km.

    Then fighterbomber has nothing to worry about, right)?
  31. 0
    17 June 2024 23: 21
    “In general, the Mirage 2000 is a very old aircraft. It began its service back in 1978, and is still in service, the only question is where and how...”
    The author is a joker, Find the year of adoption on the Internet.
  32. 0
    23 June 2024 08: 23
    The need for invention is cunning. That is, they can cause problems, but they will still end up on the ground. In general, we need to take the confrontation to the West and then the situation will be more normal. + for good reason, you need to stand on the Dniester and keep Amer’s launchers in sight. And to Russify dill, spitting on the friendship of peoples. She went.
  33. 0
    25 June 2024 02: 48
    An alternative point of view or “The arctic fox crept up unnoticed.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STpNRrn2K_M
  34. 0
    22 August 2024 13: 51
    In my opinion, the author is not aware of the capabilities of the Mirage. At all.