Clearing the skies for the F-16 has begun, how will Russia respond?

362
Clearing the skies for the F-16 has begun, how will Russia respond?

Indeed, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have launched a new air campaign, which was clearly not developed in Kyiv and has had some success. Certain - because indeed, it was possible to disable several air defense systems, as shown by the results of video recording from that side. The photo shows a destroyed air defense system of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but the essence does not change.

The strategy itself is not new at all; it has been used since the time of American aggression in Vietnam. It was then that the idea was born of suppressing and eliminating anti-aircraft missile systems, which by that time had become serious weaponsTo aviation I could work calmly.



Considering that in those years, air defense systems and the radars serving them were very bulky and not very mobile, this was easier to do than today. However, even in the 60s, the elimination of air defense systems was a serious task. Suffice it to recall the American black day of July 27, 1965, when a group of F-105s at low altitude, beyond the estimated visibility of the S-75 radars, approached the area where three Phantoms had already been shot down. But instead of the S-75, they found an ambush with a large number of automatic cannons, for which low-flying aircraft became an ideal target. More precisely, five of them.

Nowadays, of course, everything is much more complicated.

The complexes have become more mobile, and in a combat situation, only those strange individuals who want a completely incomprehensible ending for themselves stand still. Plus electronic warfare equipment, camouflage and all that kind of stuff. But even in this case, it is possible, using modern reconnaissance means, to detect and track the movements of the air defense system.


Next, a combined strike is applied, using different means and from different directions, in order to guarantee an overload and force them to use up their ammunition. For example, an attack using aircraft with anti-radar missiles, UAVs and HIMARS missiles, and after the air defense system fires, strike with the same ATACMS.

It seems very complicated and not worth it. However, such work on modern and long-range air defense systems cannot but bring results. Medium- and long-range air defense systems are valuable because they allow you to work deep into enemy territory, primarily against carrier aircraft of SCALP and other things, and also against launched missiles. The main thing is from a safe distance.

The emergence of long-range weapons complicates the work of air defense systems. Even the same drone with 1-3 kg of explosives, exactly hitting the radar mirror, is guaranteed to disable the complex.

So what is the point of working specifically on the S-300/S-400? Why are we talking about them, and not about “Buks” or “Torahs”?

The answer is simple: F-16. More precisely, Su-34.


Su-34 with UMPC bombs is what is tormenting the defense of the Ukrainian Armed Forces most terribly today. Yes, Drones with explosives capable of destroying a tank or mortar crew - this is also important. A long-range UAV that can set fire to a tank at a refinery is important. But a 500-kg or 1000-kg bomb, precisely hitting the same refinery or command post, is guaranteed to destroy it. 5-10 kg of explosives versus 195 kg for the FAB-500 - it’s not easy to compare.


It’s easier, of course, to compare the UAV with the blow of a sword, and the FAB-500 with the blow of a war club. Both can be more than effective, the only question is the scale.

What's the point of the F-16 anyway? As a fighter against our Su-30SM2 and Su-35S, it is nothing, and so much has been written about this that I don’t want to repeat it. As an attack aircraft against ground targets, it is the same dull phenomenon. In general, the Falcon has one goal in the Ukrainian sky - the Su-34. But the goal is difficult, the “duckling” can star at the “falcon” in such a way that feathers will fly. Su-24 and Su-25 - there are fewer and fewer of them, so realistically, only Su-34 with UMPC.

And here the air defense systems need to be removed, because the Su-34s are already operating from our territory, properly covered (otherwise how to explain the absence of solemn reports about the downed ones), but the F-16s must be given the opportunity to work.

Why is this so? It’s simple: unlike the air defense systems that the Ukrainian Armed Forces also have, the F-16 is more mobile and can quickly cover the area where the Su-34s fly to work. Naturally, not a single air defense system can boast of the speed and capabilities of an aircraft. And here the F-16, which is much newer than the remaining (if such a thing exists) MiG-29 of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, can play a very important role, since it operates in the NATO information network and can receive target designation from AWACS aircraft and NATO satellites. And this is a very important point.

So, this is not a very pleasant picture:
- Ukrainian radars have been pretty damaged over two years of war;
- Ukrainian Soviet-made air defense systems have been significantly damaged over two years of war;
- Ukrainian Soviet-made aircraft are also pretty damaged;
- The Armed Forces of Ukraine are not able to put up a full-fledged barrier in the way of Russian weapons, since they simply do not have enough everything: radar, air defense systems, aircraft, missiles.

There is help from NATO allies. It is a fact. And they supply very decent air defense systems in small quantities. But here’s the problem: it’s simply impossible to include these air defense systems in the general Ukrainian air defense network, since they simply have problems in terms of communication and coordination. They work independently, on their radars, which reflect the tactical picture of the area, but do not in any way affect the strategic alignment.

Yes, there are AWACS aircraft, there are satellites, there are long-range radars on the territory of NATO countries. But their presence is of little use in operational terms, because the exchange of information occurs along the chain Sputnik/radar - NATO information processing center - Ukrainian Armed Forces center - headquarters - aircraft / air defense systems. For NATO structures everything is simpler, where an AWACS aircraft can carry out target designation directly to its aircraft using its own communication channels. This will not work with Ukrainian aircraft for obvious reasons. So here simply the slow speed of information flow is an obstacle to effective work.

The question may arise: how are Ukrainian BECs and UAVs guided by American strategic intelligence officers? It's simple: they are not so Ukrainian, they are assembled from components used by the allies, unlike the Ukrainian equipment that was assembled in Soviet times.

And here the American F-16s, which can quite normally interact with the NATO information structure, can become a real lifesaver, since, by receiving information bypassing a number of links in the command chain, they can be in the right place and at the right time. Naturally, counteracting our aircraft.

Sword strike tactics again.


Quite reasonable, one can feel the handwriting of overseas specialists, because since the Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot ensure the presence of a layered defense, primarily protected from the actions of Russian aviation and missile-unmanned troops, it is necessary to counteract something that can provide counteraction.

And this “something” will be American aircraft, which are very easily included in the NATO target designation system and can receive information from a variety of sources, as they say, in flight. And this will be a significant advantage of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, if not Russian air defense systems, which simply may prevent the F-16 from reaching missile launch range.

In this light, Russian long-range air defense systems of the S-300/S-400 type will become priority targets for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Everything will be involved: drones all sizes, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and so on. And, as mentioned above, a drone carrying 3 kg of explosives can be no less effective than ATACMS with its 227 kg warhead.

It is necessary to think over the air defense system protection system in such conditions, because working air defense systems are working Su-34s.

Here it is definitely worth studying certain experiences of past years, for example, the experience of NATO aggression in Yugoslavia in 1999 or in Iraq in 1991. At that time, the losses of American missiles in both conflicts were estimated at almost 50%, and the Tomahawks were not shot down by serious systems! On the contrary, it was very difficult to use serious air defense systems in conditions where each activation of the air defense system radar almost immediately caused attacks on them using anti-radar missiles from aircraft. And Yugoslavia and Iraq did not have decent air defense systems; air defense was not the strong point of these countries at all. However, the missiles were shot down. And this was done with the help of MANPADS and very mobile Osa-AK air defense systems, which could operate by briefly turning on the radar with a mandatory change of position. And the Soviet MANPADS "Strela" and "Igla".


That is, an air defense system (MANPADS) is needed that will protect the air defense system. It sounds, of course, so-so. But this is a modern reality.

It becomes clear why Kyiv so stubbornly shook the F-16 out of NATO, an aircraft that is not much better than the MiG-29 and Su-27 of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and certainly worse than Russian modern fighters. It's not about the F-16 itself, it's about its application and the use of the entire existing NATO command and control system. This means that on our side it is also necessary to develop plans on how to confront the enemy in changing conditions. Whether these will be VNOS posts, following the example of Iraqi ones, or mobile groups with short-range air defense systems or MANPADS, is not so important here.

It is more important to understand that with the advent of American aircraft, a new round of confrontation begins, and the question that will be asked from the other side will require an effective answer.

Well, or the “falcons” will really begin to complicate the life of the “ducklings”.
362 comments
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  1. +24
    11 June 2024 04: 56
    It is more important to understand that with the advent of American aircraft, a new round of confrontation begins, and the question that will be asked from the other side will require an effective answer.


    Yes, there will be no effective answer, because the goals are exactly the opposite of those broadcast from the TV screen, wake up already!!!
    1. -2
      11 June 2024 07: 45
      Ultimately, this whole war will end with nuclear strikes.
      Without them, we will not be able to bring these damned capitalists to their senses.
      This is my opinion.
      1. -2
        11 June 2024 08: 29
        Are you talking about the damned on the other side? And on our land they, the capitalists, are white and fluffy. So maybe we should throw a loaf of bread around Moscow or Leningrad? There are a lot of them accumulated there. Let's bring them to their senses. What's on your mind?
        1. +3
          11 June 2024 09: 17
          So maybe we should throw a loaf of bread around Moscow or Leningrad? There are a lot of them accumulated there. Let's bring them to their senses. What's on your mind?

          I didn't say that we should shy away.
          Based on the situation developing around Russia, there is only one conclusion - the use of nuclear weapons. And it's only a matter of time.
          If you don’t understand this, then what’s going on in your head?
          1. +39
            11 June 2024 10: 21
            There will be no use of nuclear weapons. Nobody needs this. The plan was to conduct a small victorious special operation. Now they are waging war because, well, they can’t just give back. And there on the horizon some option will turn up. Some expect Putin to leave, others that Trump will come, something will happen over time, sooner or later. And the fact that people are dying and cities are being destroyed is strangers and strangers’ houses, that’s their logic.
            1. +13
              11 June 2024 13: 43
              Quote: Commissar Kitten
              There will be no use of nuclear weapons. Nobody needs this. The plan was to conduct a small victorious special operation. Now they are waging war because, well, they can’t just give back. And there on the horizon some option will turn up. Some expect Putin to leave, others that Trump will come, something will happen over time, sooner or later. And the fact that people are dying and cities are being destroyed is strangers and strangers’ houses, that’s their logic.

              And no one gives them back. It is ours who says at every opportunity that he is ready for negotiations.
              And I really wouldn’t like to talk about nuclear weapons, but I’m afraid it will happen. The equipment is being knocked out, the resource is being exhausted, and with our rate of production of 10 aircraft per year, this is a very sad prospect. I'm afraid that the time will come when there is simply no choice left. War is about the economy, and only the most frostbitten idiot can think that the Russian economy is stronger than the Western one. And they don’t care that Russia will launch nuclear weapons across the territory of Ukraine. Perhaps this is exactly what they are leading to.
              1. +5
                11 June 2024 14: 12
                Quote: Letun
                It is ours who says at every opportunity that he is ready for negotiations.
                You are wrong to see this as a threat. The negotiations that Putin is ready for are negotiations on the surrender of Ukraine. That’s exactly why no one else is ready for them except him.
                1. +4
                  11 June 2024 18: 18
                  Istanbul was based on capitulation?
                  1. +6
                    11 June 2024 19: 11
                    The Istanbul plan was based on the reduction of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to 80 thousand people (Germany was left at Versailles with 100 thousand). After that, it was possible to start the second round in a month, and there would be capitulation.
                  2. +4
                    11 June 2024 19: 29
                    Formally yes. Then it was a capitulation on acceptable (perhaps - it’s not for me to judge. But, apparently, so) conditions under the current circumstances at that time (before Bucha).
                2. +2
                  12 June 2024 13: 06
                  Quote: Commissar Kitten
                  Quote: Letun
                  It is ours who says at every opportunity that he is ready for negotiations.
                  You are wrong to see this as a threat. The negotiations that Putin is ready for are negotiations on the surrender of Ukraine. That’s exactly why no one else is ready for them except him.

                  laughing they joked funny. Although it's not funny that you seriously think so. What kind of capitulation can we talk about if FOR TWO AND A HALF A YEAR WE CAN’T REMOVE THE APU FROM DONETSK! Sometimes you turn your head on.
                  1. 0
                    12 June 2024 13: 19
                    Didn't you read the comment to the end? Well, yes, this is a so-so proposal, and that’s exactly why no one wants to enter into negotiations with Putin.
                  2. 0
                    13 June 2024 20: 01
                    Strange analysis of the database (i.e. criticism of the General Staff), .. and would you like to smash 20-30 km a day with your forehead? Don't you feel sorry for the soldiers? and defense eats up the enemy better than a powerful offensive for nothing?
                    You too, just clear your brain, yeah.
              2. +7
                12 June 2024 22: 57
                There will be no nuclear strikes from our side for sure! And we won’t run into a direct conflict with NATO either! Because in Ukraine we are NOT fighting ALONE!!! Despite the wild sanctions, the Russian economy has survived, but the standard of living of Russians has not changed in principle, why? Because our government is brilliant and our economy is so powerful that we don’t care about all the sanctions?! Of course not! We did not collapse thanks to the support of the rest of the non-Western world, thanks to Chinese import substitution, and our military-industrial complex is also increasing its capabilities, in no small part thanks to friendly countries. The Arabs help support oil prices, the Indians help sell this oil, China is generally the foundation of this support fellow
                Why do you think they help us? Obviously not so that we would destroy this world, they are helping us because the whole world expects that our victory will help change the world for the better, will help get rid of the dictatorship of the United States. The West provokes us to actions that will frighten the world and then everyone will turn away from us and we will suddenly find ourselves in the BIG F...
                Ukraine is a proxy for NATO, and we, Russia, are a proxy for the rest of humanity! soldier
                Putin 100%, for every attack from the West, coordinates our steps with Comrade Xi and our other friends!
                1. SIT
                  +2
                  14 June 2024 01: 05
                  China supports Russia because it understands that it is the main target, not Russia. If Russia disappears, China will disappear next.
              3. +3
                13 June 2024 19: 53
                Quote: Letun
                The equipment is being knocked out, the resource is being exhausted, and with our rate of production of 10 aircraft per year, this is a very sad prospect.

                ... um, are we lost?
                It reeked of “data from Western experts,” the text was a carbon copy. They forgot about “troop losses amounting to hundreds of thousands.”
                Quote: Letun
                War is about the economy, and only the most frostbitten idiot can think that the Russian economy is stronger than the Western one

                Answer, who has a greater chance of winning a protracted war, who has more industry or resources? Let me remind you that for the current war, Russia has enough weapons to maintain a database for as long as necessary, let alone resources..... :) oh, it turns out that I’m a “cracker”? :(
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. +3
            11 June 2024 11: 05
            [Quote]I didn't say that we should shy away./ Quote]
            Explain to me, the unreasonable one. What is the difference between the desire to launch nuclear strikes and the desire to throw away a vigorous loaf?
            Is a nuclear strike a more humane weapon?
            1. -9
              11 June 2024 11: 08
              What is the difference between the desire to launch nuclear strikes and the desire to throw away a vigorous loaf?

              No one will ask you or me about our desire to use or not use nuclear weapons.
              I'm telling you something completely different. Turn your brain on “unreasonable” and not hysterical.
              1. +4
                11 June 2024 21: 43
                Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
                No one will ask you or me about our desire to use or not use nuclear weapons.

                And in your opinion, the withdrawal under pressure from the Ukrainian Armed Forces, thanks to the pumping of modern weapons into the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the depletion of the Russian Army due to irreparable losses from the conquered territories, could become the reason for the use of nuclear weapons? We are not talking about the internationally recognized territory of the Russian Federation, which can be defended including nuclear weapons, but about the “new territories of the Russian Federation”, which no one in the world, not even close allies of the Russian Federation, recognize as the territory of the Russian Federation. And the only reason for the use of nuclear weapons then was the so-called “loss of face” of someone in the Kremlin, which in 2022 had such an advantage in weapons and drugs that all this would not have been discussed if they had done it wisely. And what goals could there be for nuclear weapons in this case? Ukraine? NATO countries? What would happen? And what are the consequences for the territory and citizens of the Russian Federation in this case, even if the response is not nuclear weapons, but volleys from thousands of missile launchers? I personally have great doubts that such an order will be carried out only because some people are “losing face” and there is no danger to the internationally recognized territories of the Russian Federation. After all, they will all be specifically responsible for the execution of such an order, and perhaps even their families will come under attack. Risking the lives of millions of Russians just because someone couldn’t and is “losing face” is madness.
                1. +2
                  12 June 2024 00: 10
                  We are not talking about the internationally recognized territory of the Russian Federation, which can be defended including nuclear weapons, but about the “new territories of the Russian Federation”, which no one in the world, not even close allies of the Russian Federation, recognize as the territory of the Russian Federation. And the only reason for the use of nuclear weapons then was the so-called “loss of face” of someone in the Kremlin, which in 2022 had such an advantage in weapons and drugs that all this would not have been discussed if they had done it wisely. And what goals could there be for nuclear weapons in this case? Ukraine? NATO countries? What would happen?


                  No matter how much I would like to imagine the conflict between Ukraine and Russia as the excessive ambitions of one person, this is not so; in fact, it is propaganda or self-hypnosis. Any Russian perfectly understands the obvious - the defeat of Russia in the conflict in Ukraine will lead to the death of not tens of thousands of citizens, but tens of millions, only citizens of Russia and hundreds of millions of citizens of the world in the future. The familiar world that has existed for hundreds and thousands of years will disappear. There will be no Russia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Iran, China, etc. This is inevitable and obvious. Draw conclusions about what awaits us and when.
                  1. 0
                    12 June 2024 03: 48
                    What do you mean “defeat of Russia”? Border withdrawal in February 2022? This will certainly not cause millions of casualties.
                    1. -3
                      12 June 2024 13: 40
                      Quote: VSO-396
                      Border withdrawal in February 2022? This will certainly not cause millions of casualties.
                      This is the genocide of 2 million Russians living in the Donbass and the transformation of Russians into third-class citizens in the USA and Europe. Only the death of millions of German and hundreds of thousands of French soldiers in the wars of the 19th and 20th centuries made it possible for about 50 years to maintain normal relations in Europe after the wars.
                      1. +7
                        12 June 2024 15: 06
                        Quote: gsev
                        This is the genocide of 2 million Russians living in the Donbass and the transformation of Russians into third-class citizens in the USA and Europe.

                        About 6 million Russian speakers live in Germany, of which at least 2 million support Putin. And no one does anything with them.
                      2. -1
                        12 June 2024 15: 13
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        And no one does anything with them.
                        Russians in Europe are deprived of the opportunity as Muslims to create their own social and political structures. The war in Ukraine began when Russian political forces were banned and repressions began against their activists. In addition, those whom you call Russians in Germany are often Jews, Azerbaijanis, Chechens, and Armenians. Perestroika in Russia, carried out by idiots like Gaidar and Gorbachev, cost the Russian people greater sacrifices than the war of 1941-1945.
                      3. +4
                        12 June 2024 15: 18
                        Quote: gsev
                        Russians in Europe are deprived of the opportunity as Muslims to create their own social and political structures.

                        Stop talking nonsense, make up things on the fly!))) No one prohibited anything there. In Germany, entire parties are being drowned for Putin. There is a public organization of Russian Germans, whose director is a big fan of Putin and appears on Russian TV. Yes, and there is plenty more.
                        Quote: gsev
                        Those whom you call Russians in Germany are often Jews, Azerbaijanis, Chechens, and Armenians.

                        Well, yes, just according to Putin, I am a Chechen, I am an Armenian, I am a Yakut, I am Russian. Where have you seen purely ethnic, purebred Russians?? All Russians are mixed with someone, this is the case in all big countries and this is normal.
                      4. -3
                        12 June 2024 15: 25
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        There is a public organization of Russian Germans, whose director is a big fan of Putin and appears on Russian TV.

                        In Germany, RT is actually strictly prohibited. There are no similar persecutions against Muslim extremists and their media outlets in Europe. How many Islamists carried out terrorist attacks in Europe and how many Russians? The Albanians flooded Europe with drugs and created a network to lure women into prostitution, and Europe expelled the Serbs from Kosovo by military force. Europe plans to carry out exactly the same expulsion with the Russians in Crimea and the North Caucasus, and with the Chinese in Xinjiang and Tibet.
                      5. 0
                        12 June 2024 17: 14
                        Quote: gsev
                        There are no similar persecutions against Muslim extremists and their media outlets in Europe.
                        A counterexample that refutes your statement: https://www.rfi.fr/ru/europe/20200430-terrorist-organization-in-Germany-banned-Hezbollah
                      6. 0
                        12 June 2024 22: 50
                        Quote: gsev
                        How many Islamists carried out terrorist attacks in Europe and how many Russians?

                        And what conclusion do you think should be drawn from this premise?

                        Quote: gsev
                        Albanians flooded Europe with drugs and created a network to lure women into prostitution,

                        So maybe this is simply beneficial for someone financially?

                        Quote: gsev
                        and Europe expelled the Serbs from Kosovo by military force.

                        True, but which country actually opposed this? Not in words, but in deeds? Everyone agreed with this...

                        Quote: gsev
                        Europe plans to carry out exactly the same expulsion with the Russians in Crimea and the North Caucasus, and with the Chinese in Xinjiang and Tibet.

                        That's right, and Europe is also planning a landing on the Moon and Mars.
                      7. -2
                        12 June 2024 23: 50
                        Quote: Vladimir Yurievich
                        That's right, and Europe is also planning a landing on the Moon and Mars.

                        The Americans set Poroshenko the task of clearing the Donbass from Russians by September 2014, with demonstrative massacres, beatings, robberies and rapes of Russian speakers. It’s surprising that you don’t know this or are trying to cast doubt on what the Ukrainian punitive forces hired by Kolomoisky were talking about to beat and rob everyone with a Russian passport for grants from Kolomoisky’s bank. A friend of mine, an ethnic Ukrainian colleague, went to Ukraine and was beaten half to death and lost his personal car. Another friend was going to visit her parents in Artemovsk. Among her business partners were supporters of Russia and active participants in the Kyiv Maidan. They informed her that they had received an order to kill and maim all holders of a Russian passport, regardless of the nationality and political views of Russian citizens.
                      8. +3
                        12 June 2024 23: 57
                        Quote: gsev
                        The Americans set a task for Poroshenko...

                        Poroshenko himself told you this, or maybe Biden himself?)))

                        Quote: gsev
                        ...said the Ukrainian punitive forces hired by Kolomoisky to beat and rob... Another friend was going to come to visit her parents in Artemovsk... They told her that an order had been received...

                        Sorry, but this is all at the OBS level.
                        Obviously, personal tragedies always happen during such events and there are countless numbers of them...
                      9. -1
                        13 June 2024 00: 05
                        Quote: Vladimir Yurievich
                        Did Poroshenko tell you this personally or Biden himself?)))

                        What is the difficulty of verification? About six months ago I talked with a Ukrainian saboteur, whose husband, according to her, organized the murder of Zakharchenko. Her words that her husband or her owner went to the Belgorod region to create a big nightmare for Putin made me think that it was this structure that was preparing, if not the terrorist attack in Crocus, then the retreat of the militants to the territory of Ukraine. Will you look for her or the slave who ran away from her owner to Europe to interrogate them?
                      10. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 09
                        This is not a matter of faith or trust. This is a “not on my salary” question.
                        I can only draw conclusions based on logic and publicly available data.
                      11. -2
                        13 June 2024 00: 34
                        Quote: Vladimir Yurievich
                        I can only draw conclusions based on logic and publicly available data.

                        I just had to talk to people who had an active life position. For example, for about 8 hours in October 1993, in October 1993, in my hands there was a magazine for the distribution of weapons of the Moscow riot police, which I took as a trophy after the riot police dispersed from the City Hall. At Ostankino I had to leave him. I had an intuition that trying to pick up the dropped bag would cost me a bullet in the head from Yeltsin’s sniper. When you talk about such adventures, D. Dudayev’s secretary in response talks about the agent of the separatist bandit underground Politkovskaya or the adversary of XNUMX, how he was trained to steal during the years of his KGB youth and how he passed exams on the course of theft. Apparently, in his old age, an active opponent is more sympathetic than a simpleton fooled by your bosses who believes in the honesty of Yavlinsky and Politkovskaya.
                      12. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 54
                        Obviously, you had an eventful life. Some may even be jealous. But I wouldn’t trust the secretary’s opinion, what if she’s someone’s agent too? Well, as for the “honesty of Yavlinsky,” as well as of all his colleagues without exception in the dangerous political business of the past, present and future, I cannot but agree with you.
                      13. +2
                        13 June 2024 00: 37
                        Quote: gsev
                        They informed her that they had received an order to kill and maim all holders of a Russian passport, regardless of the nationality and political views of Russian citizens.
                        Quote: gsev
                        About six months ago I talked with a Ukrainian saboteur, whose husband, according to her, organized the murder of Zakharchenko

                        And all this without attracting the attention of the orderlies.
                      14. 0
                        13 June 2024 03: 53
                        Quote: Commissar Kitten
                        And all this without attracting the attention of the orderlies.

                        https://vk.com/id695695458?from=search Вот один из многих ресурсов украинских спецслужб в соцсетях. Там откровенно рассказывают и о диверсиях в России и о работорговле в Одессе. Вообще контент в соцсетях наполняют во многом за деньги именно государственные службы. Общаясь с программистами я иногда слышал их оценки сколько средств тратится на разложение народа России.
                      15. -2
                        14 June 2024 16: 18
                        Quote: gsev
                        In Germany, RT is actually strictly prohibited.

                        What is a “hard ban” for you? You can watch it on the Internet, the only thing is that they were kicked out of cable TV. What else in 2021, after a lot of warnings, stop spreading lies about vaccines and Covid 19. What do they have to do with the same thing in the Russian Federation! People translated nonsense about vaccines and Covid 19 from German RT into Russian, posted it on VK and received articles!
                        Quote: gsev
                        There are no similar persecutions against Muslim extremists and their media outlets in Europe.

                        Lie. Not only are all sorts of organizations closed. But individual Islamists are also imprisoned after their video messages.
                        Quote: gsev
                        Albanians flooded Europe with drugs and created a network to lure women into prostitution

                        Not only Albanians are involved in pimping. There are a lot of Germans in this "business". There is a constant struggle against this, as well as organized crime in general. But what do you mean by flooding? Are there prostitutes on every corner? Drugs, particularly coke, enter through the ports. Now, when the consumption and tonnage of drugs has grown, they woke up and began to resist. This is the price to pay for not doing much for decades. Belgian and Dutch port workers could earn a year's salary with just a little help.
                        Quote: gsev
                        and Europe expelled the Serbs from Kosovo by military force

                        The Serbs still live in Kosovo. Even until recently there were no plans to put Kosovo registration numbers on cars. Which is what caused the scandal recently.
                        Quote: gsev
                        Europe plans to carry out exactly the same expulsion with the Russians in Crimea

                        Where did you dig this up??? Do you have any facts or documents for this? Or at least some Von de Leyne said this?? If anyone has such plans, then it is the Ukrainians, regarding the Russians who have moved to Crimea since 2014, especially 2022. And then they probably won’t touch those who pass some kind of loyalty test. In this matter, Europe is more likely to defend Russians if the rights that allow them to stay are violated. Russian Crimeans who lived in Crimea before 2014 are unlikely to be touched at all, except perhaps those who collaborated with the Russian authorities.
                        Quote: gsev
                        and in the North Caucasus, and with the Chinese in Xinjiang and Tibet.

                        Well, this is your fantasy. In the Caucasus, Russians should not be afraid of Europeans, but of local nationalists, especially those with religious overtones, as was already the case in Chechnya. And who the Chinese will be and how to drive them out is beyond even the imagination to imagine.
                      16. +1
                        14 June 2024 17: 05
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        The Serbs still live in Kosovo.

                        The NATO military expelled approximately 200 Serbs from Kosovo. There were approximately 000 areas left where Serbs still live. Moreover, they exist only because NATO was afraid of provoking a thermonuclear war with Russia through intervention. NATO asked Muslim Albanians to refrain from expelling the Slavs from Kosovo and Macedonia until the successful dismemberment of Russia.
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        and local nationalists, especially with religious infusion, as was already the case in Chechnya

                        Among my acquaintances from the North Caucasus, there are many who were awarded orders of Russia for Chechnya, Syria and Ukraine, and among their relatives there are many who died for the interests of Russia.
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        And who the Chinese will be and how to drive them out is beyond even the imagination to imagine.

                        If China and Russia are in normal relations, their opponents are unable to either restrain the development of China or restrain the development of Russia. It’s just that Russian and Chinese politicians sometimes fall into stupidity. Either Putin will impose sanctions against the DPRK or supply weapons to Burma to kill Chinese special forces. To Xi will raise the issue of the Bolshoi Ussuri Island during the negotiations. Although, for example, I don’t understand why Putin doesn’t force Russian industry with a strict directive to replace European components with Chinese ones.
                      17. 0
                        17 June 2024 01: 01
                        Fool! Well, you can’t write it shorter.
                  2. +2
                    12 June 2024 08: 58
                    Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                    Any Russian understands perfectly well
                    obvious
                    This is just classic self-suggestion. Or propaganda - depending on whether it is used consciously or not. Just standard manipulative formulations.
                  3. +2
                    12 June 2024 15: 08
                    Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                    There will be no Russia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Iran, China, etc. This is inevitable and obvious. Draw conclusions about what awaits us and when.

                    Conclusions from your unhealthy, incomprehensible fantasies taken from?? I hope from such unhealthy fantasies they will not draw the conclusion that they must definitely strike with nuclear weapons if they are forced to go beyond the borders of 2022.
                  4. +4
                    12 June 2024 22: 38
                    Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                    No matter how much I would like to imagine the conflict between Ukraine and Russia as the excessive ambitions of one person, this is not so; in fact, it is propaganda or self-hypnosis.

                    The role of personality in history is greatly exaggerated. The country is ruled not by an individual, but by the ruling class, and the ruling elite of this ruling class, for some reason, needed to start what was started. Personality also played a role, but it is not yet possible to assess its significance.

                    Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                    Any Russian perfectly understands the obvious - the defeat of Russia in the conflict in Ukraine will lead to the death of not tens of thousands of citizens, but tens of millions, only Russian citizens...


                    Defeat in a conventional war threatens a serious decline in the country’s international authority, as well as, possibly, the loss of some territories and the possible redistribution of part of the privatized property (inherited from a recently disappeared more highly developed civilization) in favor of the Western and Eastern partners of the current governing “elite.” But the main part of the top of the ruling class will not suffer in this situation (remember the Kaiser’s Germany), but on the contrary will become seriously rich. The majority of the country’s ordinary population, as has always happened in such cases (remember Germany again), will quickly and inevitably become impoverished, since the country’s ordinary population will have to pay for a long time and dearly for the restoration of the destroyed infrastructure and other people’s property. Defeat will not lead to anything more serious.

                    Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                    will lead to the death of not tens of thousands of citizens, but tens of millions, only citizens of Russia and hundreds of millions, citizens of the world in the future. The familiar world that has existed for hundreds and thousands of years will disappear. There will be no Russia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Iran, China, etc.

                    Well, this is close to delirium, so there is no point in discussing it.
                    1. 0
                      13 June 2024 00: 42
                      Quote: Vladimir Yurievich
                      Defeat in a conventional war threatens a serious decline in the country’s international authority, as well as, possibly, the loss of some territories and the possible redistribution of part of the privatized property (inherited from a recently disappeared more highly developed civilization) in favor of the Western and Eastern partners of the current governing “elite.” But the main part of the top of the ruling class will not suffer in this situation (remember the Kaiser’s Germany), but on the contrary will become seriously rich. The majority of the country’s ordinary population, as has always happened in such cases (remember Germany again), will quickly and inevitably become impoverished, since the country’s ordinary population will have to pay for a long time and dearly for the restoration of the destroyed infrastructure and other people’s property. Defeat will not lead to anything more serious.

                      And the most interesting thing is that a conditional victory will lead to plus or minus the same thing. Because no one will lift the sanctions, no one will recognize the acquisitions received during the war, and no one will unfreeze the assets.
                      1. +4
                        13 June 2024 01: 05
                        Quote: Commissar Kitten
                        And the most interesting thing is that a conditional victory will lead to plus or minus the same thing. Because no one will lift the sanctions, no one will recognize the acquisitions received during the war, and no one will unfreeze the assets.

                        Hard to tell. The winners are not judged. The winners are considered one way or another. But for this it is necessary that the state of Ukraine cease to exist (the territory and population of Ukraine must come under complete control), then it will be easier - Europe will quickly get tired of listening to the cries of refugees. As for assets, foreign exchange reserves are a fiction, but it is more expensive for Europeans to touch them - it will undermine their own authority, and the private investments of our bourgeoisie - this is how the process of “exchange” for investment objects of residents from unfriendly countries has been going on for a long time. So everything is going according to plan)))
                      2. 0
                        13 June 2024 19: 38
                        Quote: Vladimir Yurievich
                        Winners are not judged.
                        There is some reverence for this phrase, and it’s clear why - it points to a way out of the situation and thereby gives hope. But this is never a physical law or even a legal one.

                        Europe will quickly get tired of listening to the screams of refugees
                        touching them is more expensive for Europeans
                        This is just an opinion that could easily be wrong. And history shows that similar opinions (“Europe will get tired of supporting Ukraine,” “The West will not risk confrontation with Russia for the sake of Ukraine”) turned out to be wrong.
                      3. +2
                        16 June 2024 08: 57
                        Quote: Commissar Kitten
                        There is some reverence for this phrase, and it’s clear why - it points to a way out of the situation and thereby gives hope. But this is never a physical law or even a legal one.

                        Perhaps this is a historical law. And it gives, rather, not abstract hope (why do serious people need hope?), but rather understandable historical examples of actions and consequences.

                        Quote: Commissar Kitten
                        Europe will quickly get tired of listening to the screams of refugees
                        touching them is more expensive for Europeans
                        This is just an opinion that could easily be wrong. And history shows that similar opinions (“Europe will get tired of supporting Ukraine,” “The West will not risk confrontation with Russia for the sake of Ukraine”) turned out to be wrong.

                        It’s 50/50 here. No one will listen to the cries of refugees for a long time - they’ll just get tired of feeding them for free if the state from which they fled simply ceases to exist. Well, there will be some kind of “Zelensky government in exile” and some kind of “arrestovich army” supported by some Poland. Countering these threats is a matter of technology, and not the most sophisticated one.
                        As for the rest, you are completely right.
                      4. +4
                        13 June 2024 01: 10
                        Commissar Kitten

                        And the most interesting thing is that a conditional victory will lead to plus or minus the same thing. Because no one will lift the sanctions, no one will recognize the acquisitions received during the war, and no one will unfreeze the assets.


                        Hardly! Sanctions force the government to create jobs, which leads to economic growth in Russia. The West is doing the same thing by introducing trade barriers. Only the West is trying to preserve production, and Russia is trying to develop what has been destroyed.
                      5. +4
                        15 June 2024 14: 56
                        Russia will try to restore what was destroyed. Creating means of production is the biggest problem now! There are no “Stankomashes”, “Tochpriborov”, etc., which created means of production in the USSR.
                        This is what needs to be restored. For too long there was a period of “it’s easier to buy their machine”... the milling cutter is either from China, or it has the “quality mark” of the USSR on it
                    2. +1
                      13 June 2024 00: 53
                      Vladimir Yurievich
                      The role of personality in history is greatly exaggerated. The country is ruled not by an individual, but by the ruling class, and the ruling elite of this ruling class, for some reason, needed to start what was started. Personality also played a role, but it is not yet possible to assess its significance.


                      Judging by the above, it has nothing to do with my comment.

                      Vladimir Yurievich
                      But the main part of the top of the ruling class will not suffer in this situation (remember the Kaiser’s Germany), but on the contrary will become seriously rich. The majority of the country’s ordinary population, as has always happened in such cases (remember Germany again), will quickly and inevitably become impoverished, since the country’s ordinary population will have to pay for a long time and dearly for the restoration of the destroyed infrastructure and other people’s property. Defeat will not lead to anything more serious.


                      The idea is generally correct, but the implications are underestimated. If some quickly get rich, while others become poor, including the army, police, and officials, the preconditions will be created for the collapse of the state into pieces. There will be no one to control this process and dozens of pocket formations will arise on the territory of Russia and the post-Soviet space, which will wage war among themselves. Note that most of these pocket republics will have nuclear weapons. Even if the West does not use nuclear weapons against Russia, or they are not used against the West, then they are guaranteed to be used by those who come to power after the collapse of Russia. Moreover, it is not a fact that it will be applied exclusively on the territory of Russia, rather the opposite. Chaos, spreads chaos. A simple statement of facts. Count how many will die in civil wars and internecine conflicts in the event of the collapse of Russia. The nineties will seem like child's play. Therefore, there will be no return to the conditions of the beginning of the Northern Military District and the defeat of Russia in Ukraine in any form. Ukraine will disappear so that Russia does not disappear. The Ukrainians have set too ambitious goals for themselves in order to win or survive.
                      1. 0
                        13 June 2024 01: 15
                        Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                        If some quickly get rich, while others become poor, including the army, police, and officials, the preconditions will be created for the collapse of the state into pieces.

                        The logic is broken here. These two factors alone have never led to the collapse of the state, internecine wars and your other horror stories.
                        Then you talk about the use of nuclear weapons, all the chaos there... I’m not ready to discuss.

                        Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                        Therefore, there will be no return to the conditions of the beginning of the Northern Military District and the defeat of Russia in Ukraine in any form.

                        Is not a fact. Negotiations will be possible at any stage of the process.

                        Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                        Ukraine will disappear so that Russia does not disappear.

                        But this is possible, although not so categorical.
                      2. +2
                        13 June 2024 14: 54
                        Vladimir Yurievich

                        These two factors alone have never led to the collapse of the state, internecine wars and your other horror stories.


                        Fear God, there are plenty of examples! The revolution in France is the concentration of power and resources in the hands of the monarchy.

                        The 1917 coup in the Russian Empire - the concentration of power and resources in the hands of the aristocracy.

                        The coup in the USSR of 1991 was the concentration of power and resources in the hands of a narrow circle of the party leadership of the CPSU.

                        The list is endless.

                        Is not a fact. Negotiations will be possible at any stage of the process.


                        The question is not in negotiations - but in results. Russia has already sat down at the negotiating table with Ukraine several times, and how did it end?

                        But this is possible, although not so categorical.


                        Most likely this is exactly the case and no other way. Even if Russia turns around today and withdraws its troops, it will be even worse. The North Military District is what unites Ukraine today. Russia will leave and Ukraine will disappear, even with Western help. The West, by the way, is not interested in a big Ukraine; it will be satisfied with a dozen small ones, it’s easier to manage. Merkel voiced this concept back in the early 2000s. I couldn’t understand then where it was leading, but now we are seeing the implementation of long-term plans.
                      3. 0
                        16 June 2024 08: 37
                        Quote from Eugene Zaboy
                        The coup in the USSR of 1991 was the concentration of power and resources in the hands of a narrow circle of the party leadership of the CPSU.

                        in the third paragraph you are right both in essence and formally, in the previous two you are greatly mistaken
                      4. 0
                        16 June 2024 08: 44
                        Quote from Eugene Zaboy

                        Is not a fact. Negotiations will be possible at any stage of the process.

                        The question is not in negotiations - but in results. Russia has already sat down at the negotiating table with Ukraine several times, and how did it end?

                        The point is not the results - this is the visible part of the iceberg. The point is in the goals that Putin’s representatives, as initiators, set at these negotiations, but they don’t report this to us. And second: the level of representation is nothing, below the plinth, as they say, such negotiations could only end the way they ended, that is, in nothing.
                      5. -2
                        13 June 2024 15: 32
                        Vladimir Yurievich

                        Then you talk about the use of nuclear weapons, all the chaos there... I’m not ready to discuss.


                        This is not hysteria, not panic, but a statement of facts. What we have? Both Trump and Biden are facing serious charges that could lead to imprisonment. Biden is also losing his son. What is guaranteed to save them? Nuclear conflict. In this case, everyone will forget about everything, and they have nothing to lose. Still, one foot in the grave. This is what our future looks like.
                  5. -1
                    13 June 2024 19: 25
                    There will be no Russia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Iran, China, etc. This is inevitable and obvious.

                    What is obvious? And by what parameters are the countries connected on the list of “inevitables”, well, except for the “urapatriotic” friendship of peoples
          4. 0
            11 June 2024 20: 16
            The loaf can be used only in one variant, a complete mess in a conventional game, when it is already the edge and there is nothing and no one to stop the enemy.
            This option is not possible for Russia. Not that mentality. Forget about the special military unit, honestly.
            1. -7
              12 June 2024 13: 42
              Quote: Essex62
              This option is not possible for Russia. Not that mentality. Forget about the special military unit, honestly.

              The use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine in the initial stage of the conflict (I mean the next 2 years) will reduce the number of victims to 2 or 3 million and prevent the attempts of Japan and other countries to dismember Russia for 50 years.
              1. +2
                13 June 2024 06: 40
                The use of I/O on one’s territory and one’s population is madness. Not to mention the consequences for Russia and the rest of the world. Opening Pandora's box in a police operation, bringing our own Russian people to their senses with the help of an argument designed solely to bury the Anglo-Saxon-Jewish Freemasons in the last war of mankind, is a so-so prospect. The West will never stop spoiling and trying to weaken and dismember us. At least you will glaze the entire outskirts of Russia. That's what they are trying to achieve. Reduce us to a state where we are physically unable to maintain our vast territories. With the frenzied outskirts, you need to be more subtle, and not swing a vigorous club. Remove the power of the Selyuks and take a long time and painstakingly to return to the roots. But not with this government. The towers failed everything and everyone.
          5. +4
            12 June 2024 02: 57
            All the Aerospace Forces need are AWACS aircraft in the appropriate quantity and quality, and then this whole idea with the F-16 would be impossible. But these aircraft are in good condition and their quality, such as the detection range, in my opinion, is no longer sufficient today. Those who have spent all these years building the armed forces and in particular the Aerospace Forces, in my opinion, deserve such a considerable term.
            1. +1
              12 June 2024 14: 11
              Quote: Garris199
              Who has been building the armed forces and the Aerospace Forces in particular all these years?

              Yesterday, due to increasing problems with obtaining Chinese electronics, I called a company that produces electronic components. I asked them about the possibility of making a controller for machine tools. The answer was: “It is now possible to do anything in the machine tool industry without loss only by working on government orders.” But after the start of the SVO, the Ministry of Industry and Trade issued an order according to which, before participating in tenders, developments in which 80% of components are made in Russia are allowed, although CNC cannot have imported parts less than 90%. Therefore, we had to close the machine tool department a year after the start of SVO.” From their company, one electronics designer in 2019 who created a strain gauge controller for an industrial explosives dispenser (the electronics surpassed the Xinje XD3 series controller in accuracy) was forced to retrain as a massage therapist, although he gained in salary. In addition, purchasing Russian components is much more troublesome and problematic than obtaining equipment from Taiwan or China.
              1. +1
                12 June 2024 14: 47
                Oh yes, we were talking about the Ministry of Industry and Trade. Messrs. Manturov and Evtukhov, as far as I understand, went for a promotion instead of a stage, so everything will only get worse.
                1. +1
                  12 June 2024 14: 57
                  Quote: Garris199
                  Messrs. Manturov and Evtukhov, as far as I understand, went to a promotion instead of a stage

                  I spoke with a representative of the General Staff about the possibility of supplying a foreign drone from one country with a combat load of 250 kg to Russia or simply its design and key components. After the conversation, I was strongly advised to drink vodka and no longer get involved with drone supplies from this country. So I resisted the temptation to try to contact drone designers in another country. In Russia there is a ban on laboratory work with encryption and radio communications outside government agencies. Therefore, a Russian can only build a drone in the USA, Israel, Afghanistan, the Persian Gulf countries, Estonia or China.
        2. 0
          11 June 2024 11: 12
          It's a strange choice, there's something wrong with your head. In such a situation, it is more logical and better to shy away from other people’s capitalists than from our own, i.e. actually on its own.
          1. -2
            11 June 2024 20: 21
            And it must be stated correctly. About shying away from dull-witted capitalists. They are the same. It's just time to remove this cliché from the lexicon. We, too, have been like them for a long time. And this is exactly what I wrote about. But the minusers don’t catch up and take it literally. Well, never mind.
            1. +1
              12 June 2024 12: 56
              They state it as they wish, but wishing defeat for those “like them” in the current situation is stupid absurdity. As they say, “they are sons of bitches, but they are our sons of bitches.”
              1. 0
                12 June 2024 23: 06
                Quote from LTCN
                As they say, “they are sons of bitches, but they are our sons of bitches.”

                Incorrect interpretation. It’s not them - “our sons of bitches”, it’s you (and all of us) - their “son of bitches”, unless you are called in a well-known way, of course.
              2. 0
                13 June 2024 06: 50
                I don’t wish my own defeat. Understand it as you wish. And you don’t have to insert a mention of sarcasm into the text either.
                1. +1
                  13 June 2024 09: 51
                  You don't understand... but oh well. Maybe one day...
                  The phrase that you cited in your post was allegedly said by US President Roosevelt to the Nicaraguan dictator Samosa, who is completely controlled by the US authorities. Roosevelt allegedly considered this cruel executioner “one of his own.” As you can see, the analogy is so-so. But, of course, you know better who and where to quote)))
                  1. +1
                    14 June 2024 08: 43
                    I did not quote this phrase. Whoever brought it, answer him. On the contrary, I agree with you. hi
                    1. 0
                      16 June 2024 09: 01
                      Oops... the stone is not yours, of course) hi
        3. +1
          11 June 2024 23: 33
          Wow, the leftist front in VO has already reached the point where it is calling for a strike “at the capitalists” in Moscow and St. Petersburg. VO, as a Russian media outlet, are you generally following what this site is becoming and in which direction it is moving?
          This has already moved from the leftist world of cosplay in 1917 to calls of a specific nature.
          1. 0
            12 June 2024 09: 24
            It would be nice to get smart enough to delve into the essence of the statements. Although, what am I talking about? The bourgeois henchmen have brains only for purses.
      2. -19
        11 June 2024 09: 18
        Do we have nuclear weapons? do not consider US politicians and statesmen to be fools who never thought of depriving us of nuclear weapons
        1. +1
          11 June 2024 10: 23
          Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
          Do we have nuclear weapons?

          У YOU, judging by the text, it is not.
          1. -1
            11 June 2024 17: 46
            yes ... that is why the deterioration of relations between Russia and the West began in 2021 and the Northern Military District began in February 2022
        2. -10
          11 June 2024 10: 55
          They left us nuclear weapons to counterbalance China.
          1. +3
            11 June 2024 12: 28
            China in 1990 was in 10th place in the world in terms of GDP, between Spain and Brazil.
            1. +2
              11 June 2024 17: 52
              The US leaders of that time should not be considered complete idiots.
              They invested precisely in the rise of China, which even then, through the efforts of Khrushchev, had long been a nuclear power. The consequences were easy to foresee.
              And they considered Russia no longer capable of anything. Upper Volta with nuclear missiles. Quite controllable. But something went wrong.
              1. +4
                11 June 2024 18: 13
                One should not assume that the world is ruled by multi-move moves, calculated ten steps ahead. You probably don't think you're a complete idiot, but if you draw up what you think is the best geopolitical strategy for the next 30 years and set a reminder, you'll get a big dose of healthy laughter in 30 years.
                1. -4
                  11 June 2024 18: 21
                  Where's the multi-pass?
                  1. China has nuclear weapons.
                  2.The Chinese work for a bowl of rice.
                  3.China's industry will develop through the efforts of the United States.
                  4. China is ruled by the Communist Party, which by definition cares about the people.
                  Well, how much intelligence is needed to foresee in the near future a conflict with China over a new division of the profit from the transaction “raw materials - sale of finished goods in the USA and the EU”? This is what we see now.
                  1. +1
                    11 June 2024 20: 26
                    Well, yes. Only this party is not communist and it doesn’t care about the people.
                    1. +3
                      12 June 2024 22: 48
                      Yes, the ruling Chinese government is not communist (they have been removing the word “communism” from their plans and tasks for the last few years, because they are completely satisfied with socialism and the established state capitalism).
                      But on own people this party doesn’t give a damn, it cares about him, maybe even without a soul, much like a good master cares about his good instrument. Obviously worried and supportive, because they need their people. This party simply doesn’t give a damn about other peoples and this is also not such a bold communist touch... rather nationalistic.

                      But this also has its benefit: Xi Jinping will not suck up and humiliate himself in front of some Rakhmon from some Tajikistan, as Putin constantly does: https://19rusinfo.ru/politika/56233-migranty-poluchayut-zelenyj- svet-skrytye-smysly-vstrechi-putina-i-rakhmona
                      The Chinese leader will not tolerate the same level of impudence from the Tajiks as our leaders tolerate: https://www.ng.ru/cis/2022-08-11/1_8511_tajikistan.html
                  2. +2
                    12 June 2024 14: 15
                    Quote: boriz
                    The Chinese work for a bowl of rice.

                    A Chinese engineer is richer than a Russian one. Based on his social status, a Chinese university professor may prefer to work in higher education, although the CCP requires him to take the post of mayor of a city with a population of over a million for a second term. This is exactly what happened to a relative of my customer.
                    1. +1
                      13 June 2024 06: 26
                      Exactly. "Elite", desk. functionaries, bourgeoisie and servants of the first two groups (and maybe classes) live well. This is 300-350 million, the rest plow for their uncle 15 hours a day. It's good for a professor in China, but it's sour for a hard worker.
                2. +2
                  12 June 2024 05: 59
                  Exactly what. Will you deny that politics is calculated many moves ahead? And what will happen in 30 years means nothing. Every chess player has a multi-move prepared, but it runs into the opponent’s multi-move. Therefore, the outcome of the game is unclear, otherwise chess competitions would have lost their meaning long ago. And of course, momentary ingenious moves that were not planned, but have a dramatic impact on the game, are also important.
                  1. -1
                    12 June 2024 09: 24
                    Quote: Nafanya999
                    Every chess player has a multi-move prepared, but it runs into the opponent’s multi-move.
                    And also for a bunch of unpredictable circumstances that are not on the chessboard. That's exactly why they don't do that. There are general principles (without specific steps), situational decision-making in response to circumstances and a sea of ​​chaos, which cannot be included in any multi-step strategy.
          2. +1
            11 June 2024 17: 47
            Lord... our Mother Russia will never be depleted of weak-minded people... sorry... but why should the United States start a nuclear war with China?
            1. -3
              11 June 2024 17: 52
              Precisely in order not to start.
            2. 0
              11 June 2024 18: 24
              If anything, a counterweight is needed so as not to start a war.
          3. +2
            12 June 2024 23: 15
            Quote: boriz
            They left us nuclear weapons to counterbalance China.

            You are somehow very dismissive of the mental abilities of the people who stood (from the inside) behind the collapse of the USSR. These people understood perfectly well that only the presence of nuclear weapons and the most powerful (at that time) army in Europe would allow them to relatively calmly privatize all the wealth and resources of one of the two superpowers of the planet. No one could “take away” nuclear weapons from us.
            1. 0
              12 June 2024 23: 19
              No one could “take away” nuclear weapons from us.

              What about Kazakhstan, Belarus, Ukraine?
              1. +1
                12 June 2024 23: 22
                Before the collapse of the USSR, these territories were not subjects of international relations; no one asked them. With Ukraine - yes, only due to the size of the territory and the size of the population (read - the army) they agreed, but there were simply no other options there.
                1. -2
                  12 June 2024 23: 23
                  The Ukrainian SSR and BSSR were the founders of the UN.
                  1. +1
                    12 June 2024 23: 29
                    Yeah. And among the founders there were Guatemala, Chile and Haiti. Only they are never asked about anything either. I repeat: the republics were not subjects of international relations, it was the prerogative of the USSR.
                    1. +2
                      12 June 2024 23: 56
                      Since 1919 until 1976, at the top of power in the USSR there was a Ukrainian-first-class group. And then it didn’t go away, during this time they brought in their own people and placed them at all echelons of power, they could solve any issues.
                      They were already destroying Russia’s resources back then, together with our other smaller “brothers.”
                      Russia didn't even have its own Communist Party. Nobody defended her interests in the country.
                      1. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 04
                        Quote: boriz
                        Since 1919 until 1976, at the top of power in the USSR there was a Ukrainian-first-horse group...

                        Info level of publications in the magazine "Ogonyok" for 1989, where between advertisements for apartments for rent and offers of escort services - complete bullshit, excuse my French, I don’t want to discuss.
                      2. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 06
                        I don't want to discuss

                        Your personal problems.
                      3. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 12
                        This is not my problem. And I don’t think yours either.
                      4. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 11
                        I just took the trouble to analyze the composition of the Politburo during this period. Very interesting.
                        Do you know what the last composition of the PB of the CPSU Central Committee was?
                        Look, you will understand why 19 million communists (including me) sent the CPSU, as the ruling party, to ...
                      5. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 33
                        Quote: boriz
                        Do you know what the last composition of the PB of the CPSU Central Committee was?

                        Yes, this doesn’t say anything at all and can’t say anything. There were many Jews on the first Council of People's Commissars, what does this mean? Only that there were many Jews there! If a dog shits in the entrance, does it matter what breed it is? You need to drive the dog away with a heavy stick or deal with its owner.
                        Quote: boriz
                        ...you will understand why 19 million communists (including me) sent the CPSU, as the ruling party, to...

                        You could send anyone anywhere, but the result, including your (and another 19 million communists?) sending to ... is the state in which the country is now.
                      6. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 40
                        There were many Jews on the first Council of People's Commissars, what does this mean? Only that there were many Jews there!

                        Funny. Where did they come from and where did they go later? Have you tried to think about it? Moreover, they cleaned up somehow quickly and purposefully (with rare exceptions).
                        You could send anyone anywhere, but the result, including your (and another 19 million communists?) sending to ... is the state in which the country is now.

                        In hindsight, we're all smart. And people saw that in the last PB the majority belonged to representatives of the republics. Moreover, such a majority as never existed before. And there are no prospects for improving life in the RSFSR. Hence the result.
                      7. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 45
                        Quote: boriz
                        Funny. Where did they come from and where did they go later? Have you tried to think about it? Moreover, they cleaned up somehow quickly and purposefully (with rare exceptions).

                        This is of no interest to anyone, except perhaps historians.

                        It makes absolutely no difference to me what nationality members of the government are, if they represent the interests of the vast majority of the country's citizens, and not a bunch of their friends and close lackeys.
                      8. -1
                        13 June 2024 00: 55
                        This is of no interest to anyone, except perhaps historians.

                        Sadly. But I'm interested. And not just me.
                        It’s strange, at first the entire government was made up of an oppressed minority, and then this didn’t exist until the collapse of the country.
                        And even the top Jews with relatives in the West. Right down to the banking circles. This is only what is noticeable.
                        When the aviation industry was demolished before the war, one design bureau was created under Mikoyan (it’s clear whose it was), another (from the Kaganovichs) under Lavochkin (who is actually Magaziner), and a third (Russian) under Yakovlev.
                        In the end it turned out to be garbage. In September 1942 The commander of the 1st Air Army, Khudyakov, demanded the restoration of I-16 production.
                        And no one answered. Because these are untouchables.
                        And the history of new Russia is not much different.
                      9. +2
                        13 June 2024 01: 30
                        Quote: boriz
                        When the aviation industry was demolished before the war, one design bureau was created under Mikoyan (it’s clear whose it was), another (from the Kaganovichs) under Lavochkin (who is actually Magaziner), and a third (Russian) under Yakovlev.

                        Are you drawn to Ogonyok again? Again, are you looking for conspiracy theories where there are none?
                        Quote: boriz
                        In the end it turned out to be garbage. In September 1942 The commander of the 1st Air Army, Khudyakov, demanded the restoration of I-16 production.
                        And no one answered. Because these are untouchables.

                        Some kind of crap... In 1942, the La-5 was already chasing Messers with might and main at medium altitudes, the MiGs were engaged in high-altitude air defense, and there was also the Yak-7.. What the hell were the I-1940s that were outdated back in 16? What do you mean?
                      10. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 20
                        Quote: boriz
                        They were already destroying Russia’s resources back then, together with our other smaller “brothers.”

                        This looks like unfounded Great Russian popism - a dangerous delusion.

                        Quote: boriz
                        Russia didn't even have its own Communist Party. Nobody defended her interests in the country.

                        But now Russia has its own “communist party”, whose interests does it protect?
                      11. +1
                        13 June 2024 00: 31
                        This looks like unfounded Great Russian popism - a dangerous delusion.

                        I have lived in this country since 1956. and I remember everything perfectly. Even the data on the growth of the economies of the republics from Soviet textbooks says quite enough. And I traveled around the country and saw the real situation.
                        And the results after the collapse of the USSR generally put all the dots.
                        But now Russia has its own “communist party”, whose interests does it protect?

                        All current parties are departments of the presidential administration. Moreover, the President of the AP does not govern. People are appointed there by consensus of elite groups.
                        This is done in all countries.
                        Democracy is a tool for keeping ruling elites in power.
                        Democracy in the leafy form that we were taught in school does not exist and never has existed.
                        It’s just that truly sovereign national elites (if they exist at all) act taking into account the interests of the majority of the population. Otherwise, they may fly away from their homes.
                      12. -1
                        13 June 2024 00: 40
                        I completely agreed until I read your post to this sacred thought:
                        Quote: boriz
                        It’s just that truly sovereign national elites (if they exist at all) act taking into account the interests of the majority of the population. Otherwise, they may fly away from their homes.

                        Somehow you paid attention to the wrong things during your trips around the country...
                        Really elites act only in the interests of their clan/teip, taking into account the interests of other influential clans, and they simply don’t give a damn about the majority of the country’s population, as long as they don’t riot.
                      13. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 43
                        as long as it doesn't rebel.

                        Exactly. And it would at least somehow work, ensuring the security and sovereignty of the country as a food supply for the intelligent elite.
                      14. -1
                        13 June 2024 01: 18
                        Quote: boriz
                        ...ensuring the security and sovereignty of the country...

                        This is all ensured by the presence of natural resources ready for sale, a poor and hungry population, and agreements on the sale of these resources (and poor people) with neighbors and/or centers of power (the USA and China)
                      15. 0
                        13 June 2024 00: 44
                        Somehow you paid attention to the wrong things during your trips around the country...

                        He paid attention to the standard of living, to the real working capacity of the population of the republics.
                        What else?
            2. +1
              12 June 2024 23: 29
              These people understood perfectly well that only the presence of nuclear weapons and the most powerful (at that time) army in Europe would allow them to relatively calmly privatize all the wealth and resources of one of the two superpowers of the planet.

              Apart from nuclear weapons, then you overestimate the power of the Russian army in Europe at the time of the collapse of the USSR.
              Ukraine was torn apart beautifully. Russia before Putin’s arrival (and for a long time after his arrival) was also bullied.
              1. +1
                12 June 2024 23: 34
                Quote: boriz
                Apart from nuclear weapons, then you overestimate the power of the Russian army in Europe at the time of the collapse of the USSR.

                I do not overestimate the power of European armies at that time, but realistically assess the balance of forces. Only European groups, with the support of troops from Warsaw Wars countries, could resolve an issue of any (conventional) complexity on the territory of mainland Europe.
                1. +1
                  12 June 2024 23: 41
                  The OVD was formally dissolved by Gorbachev on July 1, 1991. And formally - even earlier.
                  The strongest group was in Eastern Europe. In second place is Ukraine.
                  The group, thrown out of Eastern Europe into an open field, and then reduced, ceased to be an army.
                  I remember well how our army was destroyed. Back in 2008 It was difficult to recruit more or less combat-ready units.
                  1. +1
                    12 June 2024 23: 47
                    If we speak formally, and consider the date of the collapse of the union as 12.06.91/XNUMX/XNUMX, then you are right: at that time, combat effectiveness was already far from necessary.
                    I considered the balance of forces as of mid-1988, when in fact all negotiations had already taken place and all decisions had been made at the international level, but their implementation had not yet begun.
                    1. +1
                      12 June 2024 23: 52
                      After Gorbachev said “Thank you everyone, everyone is free,” the Department of Internal Affairs could no longer resolve any issues.
              2. 0
                12 June 2024 23: 37
                Quote: boriz
                Ukraine was torn apart beautifully. Russia before Putin’s arrival (and for a long time after his arrival) was also bullied.

                And who did it, it’s interesting to know?)))
                1. 0
                  12 June 2024 23: 43
                  And who did it, it’s interesting to know?)))

                  Weird question.
                  These people understood perfectly well that only the presence of nuclear weapons and the most powerful (at that time) army in Europe would allow them to relatively calmly privatize all the wealth and resources of one of the two superpowers of the planet.
                  1. 0
                    12 June 2024 23: 49
                    Definitely. And nothing else. The arrival has nothing to do with it. So, a change of snouts at the feeder.
                    1. 0
                      13 June 2024 01: 11
                      If you mean that the local elites were bullied into one person, then you are very mistaken.
                      The locals received a small share, the rest went to the west.
                      As soon as the question arises of even changing proportions not in favor of the West, the situation becomes more complicated. This is what we see here and in China.
        3. +2
          11 June 2024 15: 37
          Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
          Do we have nuclear weapons?

          There is, because if it weren’t for that, at the very beginning, NATO’s air defense would have bombed Moscow, like Belgrade once did. The only thing we don’t have is political will.
          1. 0
            11 June 2024 17: 48
            no... otherwise our elite would behave much more impudently and boldly with the West
            1. 0
              11 June 2024 22: 36
              Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
              otherwise our elite would behave much more impudently and boldly with the West

              This is mentioned in my second sentence.
        4. +1
          11 June 2024 16: 43
          Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
          Do we have nuclear weapons? do not consider US politicians and statesmen to be fools who never thought of depriving us of nuclear weapons

          belay belay belay
          There's not even anything to say...
          1. -1
            11 June 2024 17: 56
            Well, what if you don’t hide your feelings? :-)
            1. +1
              12 June 2024 06: 58
              What is there to hide? We don't have nuclear weapons! We spent it all when we defended Great Tartaria from China. And then the Great “Chinese” Wall was built, where the Night Watch defended Civilization from reptilians! Who had their main base behind the Antarctic wall, from which they spread their lies and rewrote history in order to hide the fact that the Earth is, in fact, FLAT!!! wassat
      3. +2
        11 June 2024 16: 38
        Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
        Without them, we will not be able to bring these damned capitalists to their senses.

        What kind of capitalists are we? Not damned? Blessed ones?
      4. 0
        12 June 2024 09: 33
        Which capitalists are you talking about, Potanin, Mordashov and Deripaska?
      5. 0
        12 June 2024 21: 36
        Not everyone wants to live in the Kremlin
      6. 0
        13 June 2024 15: 50
        I see that everyone here is not very interested in the topic of the article. All the great military and geostrategists and politicians of the planetary level and these tactics of yours, no one cares here.
    2. +15
      11 June 2024 09: 40
      Dear visitors and author of the article! Remember forever an air defense system is a complex, it consists of launchers, several locators, a control and communications point, ... What does it mean to destroy an air defense system? Think! Stop talking nonsense and shedding tears. You can destroy one launcher, you can disable the locator, but the complex will work and no one has canceled camouflage and dispersal...
      1. +6
        11 June 2024 11: 07
        Quote: Vitov
        You can destroy one launcher, you can disable the locator, but the complex will work

        Military - it is possible and will be: after problems with the "Cube" in the Arab-Israeli army, the army switched to semi-autonomous self-propelled guns with radar.
        But the country’s air defense complex can do little without its only on-load tap-changer.
        Quote: Vitov
        but the complex will work and camouflage and dispersal have not been canceled...

        The 5P85D launchers are installed in position in pairs relative to the 5P85S launcher in such a way that the distance between the cabins is 2-3 meters (which is determined by the length of the cable connecting the 5P85D launcher to the F3S container), and the distance between the TPK packages is 5-6 meters. All 5P85S launchers must have their cabins oriented to the 30N6 on-load tap-changer (the exact angular location of the launcher is determined by reference points on the F2S container using artillery panoramas installed on the 5P85S launcher) and are located at a distance of up to one hundred meters from it.
        1. +1
          11 June 2024 11: 24
          I really like the principle of construction of the NASAMS anti-aircraft missile system.
          Of course, this could be an air defense system of a different class, but the point is in the principles of organization.
          https://missilery.info/missile/nasams.
          And what prevents you from thinking. Moreover, the military plays the main role here. First of all, generals and the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces. So they are happy with everything, or maybe they don’t have enough brains?
          1. +1
            11 June 2024 12: 49
            Quote: Vitov
            I really like the principle of construction of the NASAMS anti-aircraft missile system.
            Of course, this could be an air defense system of a different class, but the point is in the principles of organization.

            We’ve already discussed it - NASAMS launchers are strictly tied to “their” radar. The radar has been knocked out - the launchers are standing idle.
            It would be better then to turn to the experience of our military air defense - the latest modification of the Buk, which has both a self-propelled gun (launcher + radar) and separate 9S36 radars at the rate of one radar per pair of ROMs (launchers that do not have their own radar).
            1. +1
              11 June 2024 13: 47
              What did you disassemble and what is your “own” radar?
              It consists of three fire platoons (a total set of 54 missiles), united in an information network in such a way that each of the three radars is capable of replacing all the others.

              The NASAMS II complex differs from the prototype in greater mobility - the NASAMS II launchers are mounted on an all-terrain chassis of the Bv 206 type. The battery includes 4 platoons instead of three, six AN/TPQ-64 radars instead of three and 12 launchers instead of nine.

              https://missilery.info/missile/nasams
              1. +2
                11 June 2024 16: 32
                Quote: Vitov
                What did you disassemble and what is your “own” radar?

                Yes, you are right - I somehow forgot that argument. For PU radars are replaceable. It’s just that they have the same command post.
                Nevertheless, we have a complex similar to NASAMS. True, not from the Aerospace Forces, but from the Ground Forces.
              2. 0
                11 June 2024 20: 26
                Quote: Vitov
                What did you disassemble and what is your “own” radar?
                It consists of three fire platoons (a total set of 54 missiles), united in an information network in such a way that each of the three radars is capable of replacing all the others.

                The nonsense is written. No one radar can replace three of the same ones. From the radar, the data arrives at its own control point, and from this control point the data is transmitted to other battery control points.
                Radar AN / TPQ-64

                The function of transmitting correction commands to the SAM board and SAM tracking is not declared for it:

                https://www.kongsberg.com/kda/what-we-do/defence-and-security/integrated-air-and-missile-defence/nasams-air-defence-system/raytheon-mpq64f1-sentinel-radar/

                https://www.deagel.com/Components/ANMPQ-64%20Sentinel/a001633#001

                The missile has a correction channel, but the air defense system does not.
            2. -1
              11 June 2024 20: 08
              Quote: Alexey RA
              We’ve already discussed it - NASAMS launchers are strictly tied to “their” radar.

              Oh, that's wrong, that's my mistake. Already fixed it. The radar and launcher are linked to their own command post. The CP is always the center. But there is a nuance: for Sentinel (and for NASAMS) the function of transmitting correction commands is not declared.
          2. -3
            11 June 2024 20: 04
            Quote: Vitov
            I really like the principle of construction of the NASAMS anti-aircraft missile system.

            Some kind of perverted taste...
            Quote: Vitov
            And what prevents you from thinking. Moreover, the military plays the main role here. First of all, generals and the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces. So they are happy with everything, or maybe they don’t have enough brains?

            Maybe you don't understand something?
        2. +2
          11 June 2024 11: 55
          And that the cable could not be extended over many years without consequences? I'm wondering. Every six months the army undergoes certification, in fact, in connection with the transition to periods of training. How does this happen in the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces and other military ministries? Sweep away all this general's trash with a filthy broom...
          1. -1
            12 June 2024 23: 41
            Quote: Vitov
            Sweep away all this general's trash with a filthy broom...

            Do you seriously believe that we have enough smart(!) majors and colonels to replace them?
        3. 0
          11 June 2024 19: 00
          Quote: Alexey RA
          After problems with the "Cube" in the Arab-Israeli military, the army switched to semi-autonomous self-propelled guns with radar

          Not this way. The combination of detection, tracking and target illumination in one radar (SOU) significantly increased mobility, and at the time of the creation of the Cube, the existing element base did not allow such a combination.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          But the country’s air defense complex can do little without its only on-load tap-changer.

          The on-load tap-changer and detector of the country's air defense system were to be located on the tower, but the radar of the air defense complexes of the ground forces was not. Different requirements.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The 5P85D PUs are installed in positions in pairs relative to the 5P85S PUs in such a way that

          Well, why are you scaring people? This is PT/PS.
      2. +2
        11 June 2024 11: 42
        Well, if the generals put air defense systems closer, then they can lose the entire complex at once
        1. -3
          11 June 2024 19: 08
          Quote from alexoff
          Well, if the generals put air defense systems closer, then they can lose the entire complex at once

          The complex is installed in such a way as to protect the object/zone from the specified means of destruction/attack, and not for reasons of “not losing.”
          1. 0
            11 June 2024 19: 23
            The complex can be placed so that there are one hundred meters between the cars, or maybe five meters. In both cases the complex is fully functional. Both, performed by the same complexes, were observed in the Northern Military District. Only in the second case are there suspicions about the sanity and loyalty of the command.
            1. -2
              11 June 2024 19: 35
              Quote from alexoff
              The complex can be placed so that there are one hundred meters between the cars, or maybe five meters. In both cases the complex is fully functional. Both, performed by the same complexes, were observed in the Northern Military District. Only in the second case are there suspicions about the sanity and loyalty of the command.

              Can you tell me more about the complexes? Which ones and how were they placed? I have never seen 5 m, except for the S-300VM and higher.
              1. +2
                11 June 2024 20: 22
                But the S-400, which was stationed in Crimea not so long ago, that firefighters posted photos to the public after being hit by missiles. Many then asked what smart guy put them so close.
                1. -4
                  11 June 2024 20: 29
                  Quote from alexoff
                  But the S-400, which was stationed in Crimea not so long ago, that firefighters posted photos to the public after being hit by missiles. Many then asked what smart guy put them so close.

                  How close? How many meters? How was the linear distance determined?
                  1. +1
                    11 June 2024 20: 43
                    You’ll just say that you measured it more accurately and it’s actually 7 meters, checkmate! You didn’t bother looking and decided to get to the bottom of me, I’ll take a look?
                    1. -4
                      11 June 2024 20: 57
                      Quote from alexoff
                      You’ll just say that you measured it more accurately and it’s actually 7 meters, checkmate! You didn’t bother looking and decided to get to the bottom of me, I’ll take a look?

                      No, I asked about how distances were measured from photographs:
                      https://new-science.ru/26-opticheskih-illjuzij-kotorye-vas-udivyat/
                      For example: 7,17,19, 20, ...
                      1. -2
                        12 June 2024 14: 28
                        Quote: Comet
                        No, I asked about how distances were measured from photographs:

                        Did you study geometry in 9th grade? In the photograph, look for an object whose dimensions you know near the object you want to measure. Using a ruler, measure the distance A (object whose dimensions are known) and B (whose dimensions you want to know) in the photograph. Divide by A and multiply by the real size of A known to you. In principle, the Unified State Examination is designed so that people who do not know how to solve such problems do not get into universities and military schools.
                      2. 0
                        13 June 2024 22: 41
                        Quote: gsev
                        Did you study geometry in 9th grade?

                        Have you stopped at 9th grade geometry? In vain. We had to move on. They'll tell you about design operators...
                        Quote: gsev
                        Do you know near the object you want to measure.

                        Close? “Near” is a functional synonym for “measure the distance.” And the question was precisely: how to measure the distance between objects in a photograph?
                        Quote: gsev
                        Using a ruler, measure the distance A (object whose dimensions are known) and B (whose dimensions you want to know) in the photograph.

                        Well, okay, in the focal plane you measure the distance with a ruler. How will you measure the distance parallel to the optical axis in the photo? Have you forgotten that the dependence of longitudinal magnification on linear magnification (zoom) is quadratic?
                        Quote: gsev
                        In principle, the Unified State Exam is designed to prevent people who cannot solve such problems from entering universities and military schools.

                        This is how entrance exams were designed in the USSR. And the Unified State Examination is a primitization, so that people can be sold on the fact that from a photograph you can determine the angular and linear distance between objects in the real world.
                      3. -2
                        13 June 2024 23: 06
                        Quote: Comet
                        How to measure the distance between objects in a photograph?

                        You print a photo. Take a ruler. Define 2 objects. The first is the size of which you need to measure. The second is the dimensions of which you know and which is located near the object whose dimensions you need to know. The size of the C300 installation can be found on the Internet. Use a ruler to measure its height in the photo.. Use a ruler to measure the distance between the 2 settings in the photo. And then a simple calculation. Of course, installations relative to each other can be shifted in depth. But using a ruler, you can measure their height in a photograph and, knowing their real height, estimate how far each of them is from the camera lens. Calculating the accuracy of such a calculation is a physics textbook for the 6th grade of a Soviet school. I honestly admit that I read such abstruse words as “projection operator” and “functional synonym” in Russian for the first time.
                      4. 0
                        13 June 2024 23: 18
                        Quote: gsev
                        which is "close" to the object

                        Near means you know how to measure distance. How do you measure distance in a photograph?
                        Quote: gsev
                        Use a ruler to measure the distance between the 2 settings in the photo.

                        We will measure the distance in the focal plane. How can you measure the distance along the optical axis in a photo, that is, along the normal to the focal plane?
                        Quote: gsev
                        I admit honestly such abstruse words as “design operator”...

                        Forget it.
                      5. -2
                        13 June 2024 23: 37
                        Quote: Comet
                        How do you measure distance in a photograph?

                        Simply applying a ruler without gaps to the photo. It seems to me that the entire technology of these measurements is chewed up, for example, in a military topography textbook. With the advent of aviation and photography, methods for analyzing photographic reconnaissance data were developed. English topographers measured the height of Everest long before the successful ascent of this mountain. Or a tank sight. There, the thousandths scale is intended specifically for measuring distances to an object and the objects themselves caught in the sight. But this is mathematics and physics of incomplete secondary Soviet education.
                        Quote: Comet
                        normal to the focal plane?

                        For example, in photo 2 of the tank it is known that this is a T-55 and the height of each is approximately 2,5 meters. One tank in the photo is 6 mm high, the second is 12 mm. You place a pole 2,5 m high and take photographs with this camera so that its height in the photo is 12 mm. Measure this distance between the location of the camera and the pole. Let's say it's 100 mm. This means that the distance between the tanks was 50 meters, taking into account the accuracy of your measurements and your knowledge of the height of the tank.
                      6. -1
                        14 June 2024 00: 05
                        Quote: gsev
                        Simply applying a ruler without gaps to the photo.

                        This is in the focal plane so you can measure the distance, without taking into account aberrations. How can you measure the normal to the focal plane using a ruler from a photo? How to apply a ruler?
                        Quote: gsev
                        It seems to me that the entire technology of these measurements is chewed up, for example, in a military topography textbook.

                        My friend’s mother was in the process of compiling topographic maps using aerial photography. This is not an easy job, and points on the map are determined from more than one image.
                        Quote: gsev
                        English topographers measured the height of Everest long before the successful ascent of this mountain.

                        And at one time I “ran around” with a theodolite and a ruler. Everest didn’t measure, of course, but he did measure.
                        Quote: gsev
                        There, the thousandths scale is intended specifically for measuring distances to an object and the objects themselves caught in the sight. But this is mathematics and physics of incomplete secondary Soviet education.

                        4th grade of Soviet secondary school. It was then that I read and disassembled the book “Artillery” from 1953. In the photo we do not have a “thousandths” scale consistent with focal lengths.
                        Quote: gsev
                        For example, in photo 2 of the tank it is known that this is a T-55 and the height of each is approximately 2,5 meters. One tank in the photo is 6 mm high, the second is 12 mm. You place a pole 2,5 m high and take photographs with this camera so that its height in the photo is 12 mm. Measure this distance between the location of the camera and the pole. Let's say it's 100 mm. This means the distance between the tanks was 50 meters

                        Soooo... And if the distance between the location of the camera and the pole is not 100 mm, but 50 mm, then what will be the distance between the tanks?
                      7. -2
                        14 June 2024 00: 30
                        Quote: Comet
                        not 100 mm, but 50 mm, then what will be the distance between the tanks?

                        I meant that 100 meters from the tank. There is a gross error in my reasoning above. It should be like this. "For example, in the photo of 2 tanks, it is known that this is a T-55 and the height of each is approximately 2,5 meters. One tank in the photo is 6 mm high, the second is 12 mm. You put a pole 2,5 m high and take photographs with this camera so that in the photo its height was 12 mm. Measure this distance between the location of the camera and the pole. Let’s say it’s 100 meters. So the distance between the tanks was 100 meters.” If the distance between the camera and the tank is 50 meters, then the distance between the tanks is about 50 meters. But at small distances it is impossible to apply the assumption that the sine of the angle multiplied by the radius is equal to the length of the arc. But in this task it was necessary to know the distance between the combat vehicles was 20 meters or 200 meters and could they be covered with one cluster munition?
                      8. 0
                        14 June 2024 00: 43
                        Quote: gsev
                        I meant that 100 meters from the tank. There is a gross error in my reasoning above.

                        No big deal, I understand you. This is a forum and it’s already night.
                        Quote: gsev
                        Let's say it's 100 meters. This means the distance between the tanks was 100 meters." If the distance is 50 meters between the camera and the tank, then the distance between the tanks is about 50 meters.

                        But what is possible here is not a decrease in the distance between tanks, but a decrease in linear magnification (reduction in focal length). When decreasing the linear magnification, you need to move closer to the pole, and when increasing the linear magnification, you need to move further from the pole to get the same 12 mm in the photo. That is, if we do not know the camera from which the shooting was taken and the focal length at which the shooting was taken from that camera, then this method does not work.
                      9. -2
                        14 June 2024 15: 52
                        Quote: Comet
                        That is, if we don't know the camera

                        There's probably a locator, a generator, and several launchers there. And not all of them are lined up in a strict line towards the shooting location. Although in the case of two objects on the same axis, you are right. But there is a method for determining the distance by
                        sharpness of objects.
                      10. 0
                        17 June 2024 23: 18
                        Quote: gsev
                        But there is a method for determining distance by
                        sharpening of objects

                        Sharpness depends on the lens, matrix, zoom. You must have this lens and matrix. And the shooting must be in RAW.
                      11. -2
                        14 June 2024 17: 19
                        Quote: Comet
                        When decreasing the linear magnification, you need to move closer to the pole,

                        Here are some photos. It is probably not difficult to determine from what distance the photograph was taken and the distance between the objects in the photo.
                      12. 0
                        14 June 2024 20: 32
                        Quote: gsev
                        It is probably not difficult to determine from what distance the photograph was taken and the distance between the objects in the photo.

                        Difficult. Unless by the convergence of parallel ones.
                      13. 0
                        18 June 2024 16: 07
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Difficult. Unless by the convergence of parallel ones.

                        In this case, it can be understood that the tanks in the background are standing next to each other and can be covered by one shell, and there are no targets near the plane shot down by the Taliban that could be hit by an explosion near the plane. The company in the photo with the tank was apparently taken from 5-10 meters, so a person was filming it, apparently standing. and the terrain is flat. Next, you can use the trigenometry method. The photo of the plane was taken from a height and the dimensions of the plane can be compared with the dimensions on the ground.
                      14. 0
                        18 June 2024 16: 42
                        Quote: gsev
                        In this case, you can understand that the tanks in the background are standing next to each other and can be covered by one shell

                        This may be an illusion. You can take a photo in which these tanks will look approximately the same, but there will be a kilometer of distance between them.
                      15. 0
                        17 June 2024 23: 25
                        Quote: gsev
                        Here are some photos. It is probably not difficult to determine from what distance the photograph was taken and the distance between the objects in the photo.

                        Without knowledge of linear magnification (zoom) - no way. The distance to the subject is equal to the ratio of the actual size of the object to the size of its image, multiplied by the linear magnification. This is without taking into account aberrations and deviation of the determined object size from the focal plane, naturally. And if the zoom on that camera is correct.
                      16. 0
                        13 June 2024 18: 43
                        There is also a satellite image of the point of impact, I don’t know how to insert links from TG. In a huge vacant lot near Dzhankoy, someone very smart gathered the entire complex into a pile, the distances between the cars are less than the length of the cars themselves. Obvious sabotage
                      17. -3
                        14 June 2024 00: 33
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Obvious sabotage

                        It is quite possible that a certain Belousov saved on power and control cables. Putin does not trust the military to determine the cost of equipment, the cost and length of the control cable, encryption systems and communications of drones. The Belousovs are betting on this. Today the missile defense position was covered, tomorrow the drones will become uncontrollable.
                      18. -2
                        14 June 2024 00: 45
                        Only this was when the Belousovs were some kind of advisers, and everything was led by the sons-in-law of bloggers and the fathers of St. Petersburg’s decorators.
                        And now I’m sitting and wondering where the trillion rubles went
                        https://forpost-sz.ru/a/2018-12-05/shojgu-v-ehkonomiku-peterburga-investirovali-odin-trillion-rublej
                        After all, a trillion rubles at that time was 6 Lakhta Centers or Burj Khalifas, or the entire Moscow City, or three hundred Su-57s, or 30 Boreys, probably three thousand Armat. There are no such production facilities in St. Petersburg, not Kazan, not Rybinsk, not Chelyabinsk, not Severodvinsk, the northern shipyard in those years built only a few ships, Pella and even fewer. Where did it all go? And this is in five years, and another 6 years have passed since then
                      19. -2
                        14 June 2024 17: 14
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Only this was when the Belousovs were some kind of advisers,

                        I mean, the trouble starts when the economist is not an assistant manager, but in a senior management position. Putin did not appoint programmer-economists to lead the FSB and the police, but he regularly carries out this trick with the Ministry of Defense.
      3. +1
        11 June 2024 16: 49
        Quote: Vitov
        You can destroy one launcher, you can disable the locator, but the complex will work and no one has canceled camouflage and dispersal...

        How will it work without 91H6E?
        1. -4
          11 June 2024 19: 35
          Quote from: AllX_VahhaB
          Quote: Vitov
          You can destroy one launcher, you can disable the locator, but the complex will work and no one has canceled camouflage and dispersal...

          How will it work without 91H6E?

          Normally.
    3. 0
      11 June 2024 20: 52
      and if so, will you eat your “straw hat”? don't forget to salt it...
    4. +1
      12 June 2024 09: 01
      Yes? What do you think are Putin’s real goals?
    5. +1
      12 June 2024 15: 17
      I’m not an air defense specialist, but I believe that, just like in Vietnam, our air defense specialists will find the key to destroying the F-16.
  2. +40
    11 June 2024 05: 11
    Clearing the skies for the F-16 has begun, how will Russia respond?

    A couple of days ago, off the coast of Crimea, a US UAV conducted reconnaissance with impunity...and after that, 10 US ATASM missiles, controlled by US operators, were attacked on the positions of our air defense division in the area. request
    This is already an act of US aggression against our country.
    How will Russia respond to the Americans...I emphasize not to Zelensky and Budanov, but specifically to the Pentagon?
    I'm afraid Miss Concern with a red marker will answer again...this has already become a Kremlin tradition.
    No words.
    1. +7
      11 June 2024 07: 25
      There was Ukrainian information that Ukrainian F-16s would be repaired and even based in the territories of Poland and Romania, and Ukrainian airfields would be used as jump airfields.
      How will we distinguish Ukrainian F-16s from Romanian and Polish ones? Will you have to knock everything down? Kartopolov made a statement that we would strike airfields in Poland and Romania. But who is this Kartopolov and how serious are his words?
      About enemy reconnaissance drones over the Black Sea, so many copies have already been broken at VO. Of the proposed solutions, I liked most the patrolling of the Black Sea by our interceptor drones for electronic warfare to counter reconnaissance aircraft or rams (for example, because of the chips from washing machines, the operators could not cope with control).
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      11 June 2024 07: 49
      It is known what, with red lines! First through Donetsk-Lugansk, then through Voronezh-Rostov, etc., etc., etc....
    3. +7
      11 June 2024 07: 57
      I'm afraid Miss Concern with a red marker will answer again...this has already become a Kremlin tradition.

      in Soviet times there was an expression: “1001 Chinese warnings” - regarding China’s concerns
      1. -2
        12 June 2024 14: 32
        Quote: Dedok
        I'm afraid Miss Concern with a red marker will answer again...this has already become a Kremlin tradition.

        in Soviet times there was an expression: “1001 Chinese warnings” - regarding China’s concerns

        When the PRC's air defense became effective, the PRC immediately intercepted the spy plane, and then the PRC Foreign Ministry began writing memoranda. But after that, the whole world discussed the actions and capabilities of the Chinese military and not the skills and abilities of Chinese diplomats.
    4. +1
      11 June 2024 11: 43
      I emphasize not to Zelensky and Budanov
      why not Zele and Budanov themselves? Breaking a couple of Pentagon puppets is quite the answer
    5. +5
      11 June 2024 12: 43
      Leopold Vladimirovich said we will improve our air defense. So let's look at the next blah blah.
      1. -1
        11 June 2024 16: 00
        Leopold Vladimirovich? And who is this?
        1. +2
          11 June 2024 16: 01
          Our main persuader.
          1. -1
            11 June 2024 16: 06
            Well, it's the same thing again. I thought someone new was appointed to air defense.
            In general, all epithets, jokes, name-calling, etc. addressed to your leadership must be left until victory.
            Then, at least until you’re blue in the face.
            They don’t put intelligence reports on our table, at least for now.
            1. 0
              12 June 2024 05: 13
              No one pulled the tongue of the main persuader. Especially at the State Council, which was broadcast almost live. And no one pulled the press secretary’s mustache in the same place that transfers the arrows from the Commander-in-Chief to the General Staff. And what? A question of results. If he lives in a world of victory, then maybe his analysts will convey that not everything is as the advisers say, whom it is time to impale in public. Although I don’t even feel half-heartedly enthusiastic about analysts. Who did not calculate the help from geyropa. But... what is pop...,
              1. -2
                13 June 2024 23: 44
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                If he lives in a world of victory, then maybe his analysts will convey that not everything is as his advisers say

                They simply demand the utmost from the military. Although Putin could ban the import of perfumes and alcohol from all countries supplying ammunition to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. This will cause more damage to NATO than supplying weapons to countries hostile to France and the United States.
            2. 0
              12 June 2024 09: 09
              What was the point of those intelligence reports that were laid on the table of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief in 2021 and early 2022? What result did everyone see? That’s why questions arise: either no one read them, or read them and didn’t understand, or understood them, but in the end they turned out to be bullshit.
    6. 0
      11 June 2024 20: 54
      How do you suggest answering “Lyokha from Android”? just don't be rude please...
  3. +10
    11 June 2024 05: 17
    What's the point of the F-16 anyway? As a fighter against our Su-30SM2 and Su-35S, it is nothing
    In modern warfare, at least in the Northern Military District, there will no longer be any classic air battles like there were in WWII or the Vietnam War. The F-16 will only be a carrier of the missile launcher or UMPC, the production of which, according to reports, the Skakly have recently mastered
    1. +1
      11 June 2024 09: 56
      Fighterbonber about the lame UMPC.

      Ukrainians had a working UMPC even before the war. I don't know why they didn't put it into the series. I also don’t really understand why they decided to make them today, because there are mountains of ready-made glide bombs for them. Moreover, time for the UMPC is slowly running out. Electronic warfare on both sides is becoming more and more numerous.
      It works for both our own and other people’s satellite guidance systems, as a result of which the accuracy of the UMPC deteriorates to critical levels and will continue to deteriorate. The prospect lies in more advanced inertial navigation systems and correction systems that cannot be interfered with.
      1. 0
        11 June 2024 19: 11
        Quote from: blackGRAIL
        The prospect lies in more advanced inertial navigation systems and correction systems that cannot be interfered with.

        What a deep military-technical thought!
    2. +4
      11 June 2024 11: 46
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      In modern warfare, at least in the Northern Military District, there will no longer be any classic air battles like there were in WWII or the Vietnam War.

      In a modern war, anything can happen, and the use of the R-73 close combat missile with TGS has already taken place in Ukraine. As for the Vietnam War, of course there were no such “dog dumps” as in the VM. Due to the lack of radar and guided missiles, the MiG-17 and J-6 pilots used guns, but tried to avoid protracted battles. The MiG-21 pilots practiced surprise attacks using the R-3S missile launcher, exiting the attack at maximum speed. It is worth saying that the MiG-21 had a weak RP-21 radar, and they were usually directed from the ground. F-4 pilots relied on powerful radars and could use radar-guided AIM-7 missiles against targets that were not visually observable. In close combat, the Americans usually used AIM-9 with TGS, and guns last.
      1. 0
        11 June 2024 19: 15
        Quote: Bongo
        MiG-21 pilots practiced surprise attacks using the R-3S missile launcher, exiting the attack at maximum speed.

        EMNIP, attack on a catch-up course with a climb at a speed of M = 1.2 and exit from the attack at the same speed. By the way, for the F-5 this tactic was not feasible due to its low combat thrust-to-weight ratio.
        1. +1
          12 June 2024 01: 21
          Quote: Comet
          By the way, for the F-5 this tactic was not feasible due to its low combat thrust-to-weight ratio.

          What does the F-5 have to do with it? what
          1. 0
            13 June 2024 22: 20
            Quote: Bongo
            Quote: Comet
            By the way, for the F-5 this tactic was not feasible due to its low combat thrust-to-weight ratio.

            What does the F-5 have to do with it? what

            There is a MiG-17, there is a J-6, there is a MiG-21. Why shouldn't there be an F-5? - he was there.
  4. +9
    11 June 2024 05: 19
    That is, an air defense system (MANPADS) is needed that will protect the air defense system. It sounds, of course, so-so. But this is a modern reality.

    Nothing new, long-range complexes were always covered by short-range complexes and anti-aircraft guns. This is exactly how the air defense system has always been built. What’s new in the system is the appearance of drones, which means it is necessary to strengthen anti-aircraft artillery and, possibly, supplement it with anti-aircraft machine guns.
    1. +1
      11 June 2024 07: 58
      This is exactly how the air defense system has always been built.


      so “on paper” - everything remains the same, but in life everything is different
    2. +4
      11 June 2024 10: 20
      This whole system has one serious drawback. An attack from below from a nose-up position is poorly detected by radar. They don't even have to come close. AIM-120 reaches targets at a distance of 120 km. And on a collision course it will be even faster.

      Unfortunately, we will soon suffer the grief of the lack of regularly hovering aircraft and AWACS UAVs in the air. All that can be seen now is the duty of several pairs of Su-35 and Su-57 with URVV-77 along with ducklings. According to the idea, their avionics will be able to see Fu-16s clinging to the ground and immediately destroy them. But this is a half measure. The Fu-16 can be effectively and efficiently destroyed only with the presence of AWACS in the air.
      1. +3
        11 June 2024 18: 26
        So the A-50 will hang in Belarus near the border with Ukraine, according to the idea, the S-400 or S-300V4 launchers should be placed on the Belarus-Ukraine border (but there are political nuances here), the 40N6E missile will almost completely cover western Ukraine. By the way, October 15, 2022. when the Ukrainian Su-27 and Su-24 were shot down at a distance of 217 km, the S-300V4 air defense system was used, most likely this long-range missile.
        1. 0
          11 June 2024 19: 27
          Quote: Alex Starley
          So the A-50 will hang in Belarus near the border with Ukraine

          And he will immediately receive a Patriot missile or SAMP-T. Legally, Belarus has been a party to the conflict since February 2022.
          1. +1
            11 June 2024 19: 34
            So you want to say that you can safely shoot down planes over Belarus? What nonsense, now there is neutrality, and this would be exactly to our advantage if the Ukrainians started shelling Belarus. But any missile launch, even air defense from the territory of Belarus, here is the problem, whether it will aggravate the dad, the question is.
            1. 0
              11 June 2024 20: 03
              There is a UN definition from 1974, and there are very recent statements from the Russian Foreign Ministry. Both by definition and by statement (and by simple logic), providing one’s territory to the troops of one state to attack another state is participation in the conflict on the side of the first state. In February 2022, the territory of Belarus was used by Russian troops not only for missile and air strikes on Ukraine, but also for the invasion of a 30-strong Russian ground force (the one that was marching on Kyiv). Belarus has been a participant in the conflict from the very beginning.
              1. 0
                11 June 2024 20: 09
                Well, why don’t the valiant Ukrainians shell the territory of Belarus, they attacked? Gomel would be shelled, as Belgorod is located near the border.
                1. 0
                  11 June 2024 20: 15
                  Perhaps the same reason why But Father after goodwill gesture I suddenly forgot about the attack that was being prepared from four places and nothing else Russian-military flies or travels from Belarus to Ukraine. That’s why, by the way, no A-50s will fly along the U-B border.
                  1. -2
                    11 June 2024 20: 25
                    Why do you say that? Do you work in the Ministry of Defense of Belarus? We constantly transfer weapons there, recent transfers included S-400 air defense systems, Iskanders, AWACS aircraft, we even transferred nuclear weapons, and we are now conducting tactical nuclear weapons exercises. These are facts, give your facts...Something looks like stuff from Tikhanovskaya’s friends.
                    1. +1
                      11 June 2024 20: 51
                      My facts: after a gesture of goodwill on the part of Belarus, they do not shoot in Ukraine and armed people do not walk around without permission. A-50s don't fly either. How grandma whispered. Poland even has more problems on the Belarusian border; recently migrants stabbed a soldier to death.
      2. 0
        11 June 2024 19: 19
        Quote: PROXOR
        Attack from below from a nose-up... AIM-120 reaches targets at a distance of 120 km

        You would decide: either “from below” or “120 km”.
        Quote: PROXOR
        Unfortunately, we will soon suffer the grief of the lack of regularly hovering aircraft and AWACS UAVs in the air. All that can be seen now is the duty of several pairs of Su-35 and Su-57 with URVV-77 along with ducklings.

        Where is it viewed from?
  5. +10
    11 June 2024 05: 40
    Data on the location of our air defense systems is provided by the Americans, and they also direct them. at airfields the absence of caponiers is already our sloppiness and our lack of readiness for war. and while we are coddling with US intelligence, satellite and aviation, they will continue to hammer us. But... The Chief radiates calm... because we are in Paradise. just in case.
    1. Eug
      +9
      11 June 2024 05: 58
      How are things going with the damaged Su-57?
      1. -6
        11 June 2024 12: 10
        How are things going with the damaged Su-57?

        Hide a million of your corpses from the press. Spread one enemy corpse in all millions of newspapers from different angles. And voila. In fact, the enemy has a million of his own corpses against one, but in the minds of ordinary people there are no corpses of their own, while the enemy has millions. And megatons of garbage in the comments about something that does not exist in nature. laughing
        1. 0
          11 June 2024 16: 24
          Absolutely right, so Kargopolov said that no one has ever shot down an A-50U over the Sea of ​​Azov. The main engine WORKS!
          1. -1
            11 June 2024 18: 36
            Naturally, no one shot it down, but there could have been an attempt, perhaps one engine was knocked out and the plane made it to the airfield. But the fall of a plane the size of a Boeing 747 does not go unnoticed (well, perhaps only the mystically missing Malaysian Boeing in the ocean), there were 20 people on the plane, if it had fallen into the Sea of ​​Azov, there would have been a rescue operation with dozens of ships and tugboats. Satellite images were already hanging printed at the Rada in Kyiv.
        2. Eug
          0
          11 June 2024 16: 38
          And you begin to believe all these millions of tons of comments about what does not exist after one real fact, which the “patriotic” media are silent about.....
          1. -2
            11 June 2024 18: 29
            And you begin to believe all these millions of tons of comments about what does not exist after one real fact, which the “patriotic” media are silent about.....

            Are you religious? laughing Yes? You can continue to believe. fellow Don't forget to go to church to get checked. Or maybe your faith is from the unclean? laughing
            1. Eug
              0
              12 June 2024 09: 43
              And yours is from Konashenkov?
    2. -3
      11 June 2024 05: 59
      Quote: Aerodrome
      Data on the location of our air defense systems are provided by the Americans, and they also direct them.

      Is this participation in hostilities against Russia, or a game of spillikins?
      1. +2
        11 June 2024 06: 01
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        Quote: Aerodrome
        Data on the location of our air defense systems are provided by the Americans, and they also direct them.

        Is this participation in hostilities against Russia, or a game of spillikins?

        Uncle Li, this is called a "proxy war." that is, by someone else's hands. and here’s the dilemma: respond in kind or cut in directly. but we have problems with both options.
        1. +2
          11 June 2024 06: 06
          Quote: Aerodrome
          but we have problems with both options.

          Ett exactly! hi
    3. +5
      11 June 2024 07: 22
      By the way, quick-assembled ones from metal structures do not last long and are inexpensive, but they will cover everything from UAVs. But this is what needs to be done
      1. +4
        11 June 2024 07: 38
        The UAV will be covered in every way
        And they will disguise it too
        1. +1
          11 June 2024 07: 39
          That's crazy! (GRUN of walruses)
      2. +4
        11 June 2024 09: 08
        So Timurka and Co. have already spent money on caponiers, but why isn’t his show-off boss next to him, on the bunk?
        1. +5
          11 June 2024 11: 47
          But no one is judging Timurka for the lack of caponiers and other unbuilt buildings, he is being tried for a bribe. And judging by how it all fell out of the information space, it will all end with a suspended sentence and the return of everything that was excessively acquired
          1. +1
            11 June 2024 15: 14
            They will not refund you in full, personal income tax will be withheld :))
  6. +23
    11 June 2024 05: 45
    Maybe it’s time to get rid of the stupid cliche - the enemy is stupid, either “Uncle Sam” or a gay European does everything for him... It’s fine for TV, of course. Some kind of admiration for the West... They say that it’s not shameful to get rid of Westerners smile
    1. +16
      11 June 2024 06: 01
      The very title of the article contains “by default” an admission of one’s own backwardness. And this is presented to the reader as obvious Truth. Who knows, maybe it is so, but why start then?
      1. +8
        11 June 2024 07: 47
        why start then?

        To break down and destroy the remains...
        1. +1
          11 June 2024 10: 27
          Quote: Vladimir80
          To break down and destroy the remains...

          Indeed, the plans of the Northern Military District do not include the mythical denafification, demilization, and especially the defense of Donbass. And the liquidation of the remnants of the Russian army and the destruction of the combat-ready population of Russia.
      2. 0
        11 June 2024 08: 00
        Who knows, maybe it is so, but why start then?


        This is how THEY live in the virtual world, everything is fine with them, they have everything they need...
      3. -1
        11 June 2024 09: 13
        Biden needed a military conflict in Europe in order to cause an economic crisis in the EU and then all capital would flow from the EU to the USA as a more reliable and quiet place to do business... that’s why the Kremlin started the SVO...
    2. 0
      11 June 2024 10: 11
      The funny thing is that from all the weapons supplied to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Link-16 system is removed, so that God forbid it gets to us, so NATO cannot direct anything directly. The only thing they can, and most likely do, is transmit intelligence data, but not directly to the carrier. And if they had also led, the situation would have looked even sadder for us. That is why the Swedes want to transfer their flying radars; recently there was information that the Ukrainians, with the assistance of friends from NATO, are creating their own analogue to link all systems, but for 2 years there have been no results.
    3. +4
      11 June 2024 13: 04
      The enemy is very smart and strong... You can only watch TV to debilitate yourself)
      Until there is constant adequate criticism of our actions, we will not win. The fact is that we are really fighting such an enemy (Ukrainian + West) that in order to win we need to be as effective as possible. And this is a quick connection between the front and industry, responsible for breakthrough ideas, the absence of rosy reports and much more... in general, get better or die.
  7. Eug
    +5
    11 June 2024 05: 57
    So for quite some time now there has been talk about missiles of different ranges in the S-400 - this is when one of the 4 launcher containers is equipped with short-range missiles for self-defense, the corresponding algorithms are “hardwired” into the radar. And the Pantsir was apparently developed to protect the S-400 batteries...
    1. -8
      11 June 2024 09: 10
      The S-400 Vityaz was developed to protect the S-350
      1. +3
        11 June 2024 11: 19
        Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
        The S-400 Vityaz was developed to protect the S-350

        The S-350 was designed to close the gap in the air defense of the VKS between the BD air defense systems (S-300PM** and S-400) and the Pantsirs. For after the decommissioning of the old S-75 and S-125, it suddenly turned out that the air defense forces only have long-range air defense systems (with an ever-increasing range) and self-defense air defense systems. And between them - nothing. The introduction of medium-range missiles into the S-300 and S-400 BCs did not solve the problem - these complexes still remained expensive and few in number. It got to the point that the army with their Buks was involved in the country's air defense. The air defense forces needed an SD air defense system - massive and less expensive than the “three hundredth” family, and with a large ammo capacity ready for launch.
        1. 0
          11 June 2024 17: 50
          good smart comment
        2. -2
          11 June 2024 19: 32
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The air defense forces needed an SD air defense system - massive and less expensive than the “three hundredth” family, and with a large ammo capacity ready for launch.

          Why is the S-350 less expensive than the “200th” family? The situation here is similar to the situation with the S-400. For the S-350, the tasks changed and a different air defense system was required. The “trick” of the S-90 is to work in a circle on subsonic targets and aircraft, as well as triangulate the PAP with its own means without the use of missiles. The development of Vityaz dates back to the XNUMXs of the last century. Alas, he was very late.
      2. +7
        11 June 2024 11: 32
        Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
        The S-400 Vityaz was developed to protect the S-350

        The S-350 was developed to replace the decommissioned S-300PS, since the S-400 is not very cheap.
        1. 0
          11 June 2024 17: 52
          Everywhere in official publications they wrote that the S-350 Vityaz air defense system is not intended to replace, but to complement the S-300 and S-400 type air defense systems
          1. +1
            12 June 2024 01: 23
            Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
            Everywhere in official publications they wrote that the S-350 Vityaz air defense system is not intended to replace, but to complement the S-300 and S-400 type air defense systems

            What do you mean by S-300 air defense system, what modification exactly? And how do you think the S-350 will “complement” the S-400?
            1. 0
              12 June 2024 08: 39
              I’m not an air defense specialist :-) and I don’t dare answer such highly specialized questions... there are more knowledgeable people here
              1. 0
                12 June 2024 09: 43
                Quote: Alexander Igorevich Rifeev
                I’m not an air defense specialist :-) and I don’t dare answer such highly specialized questions... there are more knowledgeable people here

                Then maybe it’s worth commenting on what you understand?
                1. +1
                  12 June 2024 19: 44
                  I’m commenting :-) comments that are not relevant remain... and comments that are relevant to the issue are quickly deleted by the moderator :-)
  8. +14
    11 June 2024 05: 59
    These are all questions for the army commanders, why for the S-300. 400 caponiers for launchers have not been opened, why are there not several spare positions, why are there no short-range air defense systems to cover them, why in two+ years of war the planes at airfields are close to each other, why hangars have not been built for them in two years it was possible to build concrete hangars with an earthen embankment, the generals are chewing snot again, again it’s just a lot of bullshit, maybe it’s time for senior officers to be tested for professional suitability, and if he doesn’t pass the test, retire or to a less important position where his competencies are sufficient
    1. +3
      11 June 2024 09: 11
      Judging by the information from the last month, the generals do not chew snot, they divide the loot, chop, etc.
    2. -1
      11 June 2024 10: 37
      Quote: Graz
      the generals are chewing snot again,

      So, maybe this is precisely the task assigned to the generals?
    3. +4
      11 June 2024 11: 32
      Quote: Graz
      why for s-300. 400 caponiers for launchers are not opened

      It won't save you. Embankment is good when the enemy is using high-explosive monoblocks - then yes, it saves you from the shock wave and fragments of nearby explosions. But now the positions of the air defense systems are covered with cluster warheads.
      Quote: Graz
      why aren't there several spare positions?

      A reserve position saves only if the enemy relies exclusively on RTR in reconnaissance of air defense positions. Then yes - the division fired back, simultaneously unmasking the main position by going on air, quickly folded, went to a reserve position, turned around and fell silent. All information about the air situation comes only from the command post; their radios are silent (the radar operates as an equivalent). The enemy does not see the radar in the radio range - until the first launch from a new position.
      But this whole idyll collapses if the enemy uses other types of reconnaissance: visual and radar, from UAVs and satellites. Once he detects the movement of the division's column, a warm welcome awaits him at the new command post.
      Quote: Graz
      why are they not covered by short-range air defense systems?

      Because they are involved in object air defense.
      Quote: Graz
      in two years it was possible to build concrete hangars with earthen embankment

      How long have they been building steel sheds in Baltimore? wink
    4. +1
      11 June 2024 12: 24
      The generals are chewing snot again, it’s just bullshit again, maybe it’s time for senior officers to be tested for professional suitability

      There seems to be someone here higher than the generals
      https://topwar.ru/200400-v-rossii-vedutsja-raboty-po-massovomu-stroitelstvu-specukrytij-dlja-voennyh-samoletov.html
      1. 0
        12 June 2024 19: 09
        Very relevant article, as if it was written today
  9. +5
    11 June 2024 05: 59
    Clearing the skies for the F-16 has begun, how will Russia respond?
    as always, nothing specific. request
    1. 0
      11 June 2024 10: 24
      Well why not? The Ural holding has already announced a bonus of 15 lyams for the downed Fu-16.
  10. +1
    11 June 2024 06: 07
    an effective response will be needed.

    what is the answer, they will take off at a distance inaccessible to destruction and from there fire long-range missiles at targets with these weapons
    1. -1
      11 June 2024 06: 56
      I wonder what type of air-to-surface missile provides a greater range than that of the S300/S400 type air defense missile system?
      1. +6
        11 June 2024 07: 25
        German Taurus
        How much longer?
      2. +5
        11 June 2024 09: 09
        since the S-300 air defense system and the like are on the ground and the range of their locators objectively depends on the features of the terrain and the radius of the earth’s surface, they need long-range detection aircraft of the A-50 type ... they were precisely knocked out by a UAV attack in Belarus and air defense operations over the Sea of ​​Azov
        1. 0
          11 June 2024 19: 00
          That’s right, the A-50 should patrol close to the Belarus-Ukraine border and give target designations to the S-300V4 launchers, which, in theory, should also be stationed on the Belarus-Ukraine border, the 40N6E missile will in this case completely cover the sky of Western Ukraine, Lukashenko can do not give the go-ahead, then the launcher will be placed at the Bryansk region-Ukraine border (of course, without radars and everything is very secretive). The control center will provide A-50 over Belarus. If the A-50 is not enough, naturally our Defense Ministry will supply it. because This is a hunt for the damn F-16). But in this case there are dead zones for the F-16 to fly.
  11. -2
    11 June 2024 06: 12
    Quote: Eug
    ?

    Quote: Eug
    How are things going with the damaged Su-57?

    Everything is muddy there... smile The fog of war does not allow us to see how things are going there.
    And this is good... the enemy should not know how things are going with our flying platform.
    Flyers, build canopies, hidden caponiers for airfield equipment with a large number of false shelters... Semibaba economy smile will save our equipment from damage...the Houthis won’t let us lie.
    1. +1
      11 June 2024 08: 02
      And this is good... the enemy should not know how things are going with our flying platform.


      We don’t know this, but they know, because... see in real time
      1. -2
        11 June 2024 19: 39
        Quote: Dedok
        and they know

        If they knew, they wouldn't ask this question here.
  12. -11
    11 June 2024 06: 37
    Crush avaxes and drones with electronic warfare even in international space over the Black Sea and not admit to anything. There is no other way, the markers have worn off. Otherwise, the next step will be the use of air defense and aircraft from Polish territory, the introduction of ground forces directly to the LBS of Poland and the Baltic states, and maybe paddling pools.
    1. +7
      11 June 2024 07: 49
      Crush avaxes and drones with electronic warfare even in international space

      Yeah, they became convinced of his “power” during 2.5 years of war!
      1. 0
        12 June 2024 13: 37
        Did a taxi driver I know tell you?
    2. +2
      11 June 2024 08: 02
      Crush avaxes and drones with electronic warfare even in international space


      Do we have such electronic warfare?
    3. +3
      11 June 2024 09: 04
      our confessions or non-recognitions, as well as threats to start everything seriously, are of no interest to anyone in the West
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. 0
    11 June 2024 06: 43
    Yes, the Russian Federation got involved in a war with an equally educated enemy whom they also support. Think about how to export.
  16. +11
    11 June 2024 06: 45
    Clearing the skies for the F-16 has begun, how will Russia respond? And we have SPIEF, we’re being bullied by some F-16s (as they write in one blog: poison with pepper and sarcasm in vinegar), request am
    1. +4
      11 June 2024 15: 38
      Clearing the skies for the F-16 has begun, how will Russia respond? And here we are at SPIEF, we’re being bullied by some F-16s, (as they write in one blog: poison with pepper and sarcasm in vinegar), request am
      Russia will respond by importing more ex-Persians, very valuable specialists, from Afghanistan!
  17. +13
    11 June 2024 06: 45
    Finally, a more or less sensible analysis of the f16 situation. Any interested person understands that NATO Avax + Aim120 = a killer mixture.
    F-16, an aircraft that is not much better than the MiG-29 and Su-27 of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and certainly worse than Russian modern fighters.

    Yesterday the Turks signed a huge contract for the supply of these same ones, which are “no better than the Mig-29 and Su-27.”
    I wonder why?
    Probably stupid winked
    1. 0
      11 June 2024 11: 37
      Quote: Heda
      Yesterday the Turks signed a huge contract for the supply of these same ones, which are “no better than the Mig-29 and Su-27.”
      I wonder why?

      So F-16s are different. They have a range of combat capabilities between modifications (Block) in service in different countries - like we have between the Su-27 and Su-35S.
      So you need to look at what specific Block the APU will receive.
    2. +1
      11 June 2024 19: 41
      Quote: Heda
      Any interested person understands that NATO Avax + Aim120 = a killer mixture.

      AWACS does not aim the AIM-120; guidance requires a fighter radar.
  18. -9
    11 June 2024 06: 57
    The author is silent about the fact that the F-16 still needs to take off and fly to the detection point of the Su-34.
    Iskanders and Daggers are already preparing for their take-off clearing.
    The author is also mistaken in the chronology of requests that have not yet died out.
    F-16s were requested there long before our success with the UMPC.

    The use of Falcons no longer poses a danger to the Su-34, in the Kursk region,
    and more air defense missile systems defending Crimea, and the Black Sea Fleet ships that still remain in Sevastopol.
    Aircraft speed and air-to-ground missile launches combined with drone and ground missile attacks,
    will increase the risk of hitting our targets precisely in Crimea.
    And Swedish-Ukrainian AWACS, given our commitment to complying with international standards,
    will also fly with impunity only in neutral waters.

    My opinion: Falcons are the southern front. The distance is shortest to Crimea.
    And distance is also the main criterion for keeping stolen aircraft in front of sponsors.
    As the history of the Northern Military District shows, Ukrainians and foreign equipment will be protected from unnecessary contact to the extreme.

    But if this happens, and there is a gap in the defense of Crimea, the Pentagon will come up with a new tactic for them.
  19. +1
    11 June 2024 06: 59
    What's the point of the F-16 anyway?

    All foreign media claim that F-16 will serve specifically to combat UMPC, which have recently been very annoying to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Well, another option is a launch pad for cruise missiles, although the fight against UMPC still a priority...
  20. +11
    11 June 2024 07: 12
    And here the F-16, which is much newer than the remaining (if such a thing exists) MiG-29 of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, can play a very important role, since it operates in the NATO information network and can receive target designation from AWACS aircraft and NATO satellites.

    Someone, explain to the author where NATO AWACS are located and what they can transmit. Well, about satellites at the same time.

    F-16, an aircraft that is not much better than the MiG-29 and Su-27 of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and certainly worse than Russian modern fighters.
    And also explain to the author about the difference between the transferred F16 and the first series of MiG-29 and Su-27 of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

    why did Kyiv so persistently shake out F-16s from NATO... on our side it is also necessary to develop plans.... Will these be VNOS posts following the example of Iraqi laughing , or mobile groups with short-range air defense systems wassat wassat or MANPADS laughing , that's not the case here lol important.
    I wonder how, for example, "VNOS posts following the example of Iraqi ones". request

    The question may arise: how are Ukrainian BECs and UAVs guided by American strategic intelligence officers? It's simple: they are not so Ukrainian, they are assembled from components used by the allies, unlike the Ukrainian equipment that was assembled in Soviet times.

    The answer is that “components” have nothing to do with it (well, it’s a cargo cult, really... request ).
    BECs are directed by operators via Starlink. This is such a horizontal thing that sticks out from the BEC.
    In the UAV, IMHO, there is not even a Starlink (it is meaningless there), most likely inertial + GPS + the possibility of additional guidance on the target (different options are described).
    NATO is providing reconnaissance of targets, probably. But, IMHO, for most of the described cases of using BEC and “long-range UAVs”, Google Maps, paid images of the Earth and “alien eyes with a mobile phone” are enough - the 21st century is in the yard and it is not clear what to do with it. IMHO, for several anti-ship missiles/BEC strikes on our ships at sea, only NATO could provide the Ukrainian Armed Forces with intelligence data.

    In general, if you don’t read the depressing descriptions of technical issues, the article is correct.
    Something needs to be done, taking into account the capabilities of the F16 with AIM120, the SEAD with KARMS in full, and the capabilities of striking the ground with the NATO nomenclature of bombs/missiles.
    Especially during the next “swim across the Dnieper” or “run to the south from the line from Vasilyevka to Ugledar”. 99% that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will try this again, only this time under the “F16 umbrella”.
    1. 0
      11 June 2024 07: 20
      Quote: Wildcat
      BECs are directed by operators via Starlink

      The BEC can also be in free search (or on duty), in accordance with the program of the now fashionable AI embedded in it...
      1. +1
        11 June 2024 07: 23
        There are no such things yet, IMHO, and they would be meaningless"in free search (or duty)". A BEC is not a warship, it cannot defend itself and, if detected, is easily destroyed even with a machine gun.
    2. +3
      11 June 2024 11: 30
      Quote: Wildcat
      Someone, explain to the author where NATO AWACS are located and what they can transmit. Well, about satellites at the same time.

      Andrey, welcome!
      Your humble servant has written on this topic more than once. But what's the point?
      1. +1
        11 June 2024 12: 42
        hi
        Good afternoon!
        I agree, it would be good if authors read VO before writing articles for VO. good

        Okay, a map or a Flytradar map, maybe it’s complicated.
        Well, still, satellites broadcasting target designation directly into the F16 cockpit in flight are overkill by any standards. Yes, both BEC and UAVs, controlled "American strategic intelligence officers", because they "from components used by the Allies"It's also kind of overkill.

        Okay, you don’t have to read VO and not know what series of Migi and Su are in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and what has been modernized there.
        But can you at least read Wiki on the subject of weapons?

        Pomnitsa feel , by one author feel there was an article in which he criticized the F16 for lacking armor like the Su25, but now this is no longer the case.... Progress good , However!

        PS. "explosives ...195 kg for FAB-500“- I wonder where the author gets the data from?
  21. +1
    11 June 2024 07: 19
    The United States gave money for weapons, supplied F-16s and trained pilots.

    Do you need Vanga to explain what will happen next?

    We will respond to escalation with our own escalation, and this will continue until one of the parties is exhausted.
  22. -1
    11 June 2024 07: 22
    In the first picture, it looked like a dummy of the Ukrainian Armed Forces air defense system, the containers were crumpled, but apparently empty.
    1. +2
      11 June 2024 12: 10
      Quote: 75Sergey
      In the first picture, it looked like a dummy of the Ukrainian Armed Forces air defense system, the containers were crumpled, but apparently empty.

      These are real TPKs with 5V55R missiles from the Ukrainian S-300PS.
      1. 0
        11 June 2024 12: 42
        Only empty ones!


        The text of your comment is too
        1. 0
          12 June 2024 01: 25
          Quote: 75Sergey
          Only empty ones!

          Where did you get this from? Do you know how the missile defense systems are located in the TPK?
  23. +1
    11 June 2024 07: 27
    When I served as a conscript under the banner of the Nsky SAM Regiment in a group of S200 divisions defending a strategic facility, we were covered by a separate S75 division.
    1. +2
      11 June 2024 11: 28
      Quote: Idle_piston
      When I served as a conscript under the banner of the Nsky SAM Regiment in a group of S200 divisions defending a strategic facility, we were covered by a separate S75 division.

      Usually this was a group of divisions, consisting of long-range S-200s, medium-range S-75 air defense systems and low-altitude S-125s.
    2. +1
      11 June 2024 11: 42
      Quote: Idle_piston
      When I served as a conscript under the banner of the Nsky SAM Regiment in a group of S200 divisions defending a strategic facility, we were covered by a separate S75 division.

      And all this wealth was also covered by low-altitude C-125s. On old space photographs, to the left and right of the “air defense concrete” in the Leningrad region, the positions of the old air defense systems were clearly visible - the “Star of David” S-75 and the “clusters” S-125. In modern photographs they are already overgrown.

      The ambush is that the country’s air defense currently does not have an SD air defense system. Either the S-400 and modifications of the S-300P, or the Pantsir. And between them - nothing.
      1. +2
        11 June 2024 12: 07
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The ambush is that the country’s air defense currently does not have an SD air defense system.

        Two S-350 air defense missile launchers. But only one is in working condition.
  24. +7
    11 June 2024 07: 38
    Our observers, for example, M. Kalashnikov, have been talking for 2 years about the need to conduct an air offensive operation with massive strikes on government, administrative, logistics and industrial centers to paralyze the management of Ukrainian territory. But the funny thing is that such an operation, albeit on a limited scale, will be carried out by Ukrainians using the F-16s handed over to them. After which there will be a situation in '22 2.0, when, having lost supplies, the Russian army will have to retreat again, only beyond the borders of our territory. And, by the way, this war showed the complete inconsistency of the cumbersome S-family air defense systems. The good old Buks and Torahs became the workhorses of the entire operation. The same vaunted “Pantsir” turned out to be complete rubbish, although it also demonstrated this in Syria.
    In general, it will be possible to disperse soon.
    1. -1
      11 June 2024 08: 19
      But the funny thing is that such an operation, albeit on a limited scale, will be carried out by Ukrainians using the F-16s handed over to them.


      This is unlikely, there are too few of them. Most likely, they will be used to limit the actions of our Air Force, in particular, to stop our use of FABs.
    2. +1
      11 June 2024 12: 19
      And why didn’t you like the shell?
      1. -1
        11 June 2024 19: 05
        Yes, it seems like not for me. There are no enthusiastic reviews of his work.
        1. 0
          11 June 2024 19: 25
          I thought you had some specifics, but if you just don’t have enthusiasm, it means rubbish. From the series that in Syria they said that the bayraktar’s shell cannot be seen at point-blank range
          1. -2
            14 June 2024 06: 58
            Yes, there are videos, including from Syria and Armenia, of these shells being shot as if in a shooting range.
            1. 0
              14 June 2024 12: 43
              From Armenia? Give me a link, otherwise this is the first time I’ve heard of Armenia purchasing them. Well, in general, it’s clear that you’re either a sissy or inferior
  25. +1
    11 June 2024 07: 41
    That is, an air defense system (MANPADS) is needed that will protect the air defense system. It sounds, of course, so-so. But this is modern reality

    Do you mean so-so? Everything was invented before us.
    For example, in the KUB I Osa air defense system battery, according to the wartime states, there is a squad of anti-aircraft gunners with MANPADS. Precisely for self-defense against low-flying and suddenly appearing targets.
    Maybe it’s just time to bring the states in line with reality, or fill the empty cells, or, for example, by adding portable or transportable electronic warfare equipment and increasing the number of anti-aircraft gunners.
    Also, nothing prevents you from covering the positions of long-range fighters with Shilkas, ZU-23-2, or anti-aircraft machine gun installations.
    1. -1
      11 June 2024 08: 07
      Air defense tasks do not always have to be carried out using mobile systems; if their range is large and they can control large areas, for example S-300 and S-400 in Crimea, then it is better for them to be in stationary shelters, and ideally the missiles should be in silos, however Despite the positional nature of military operations, we haven’t heard about the construction of protected shelters; probably they don’t even build bunkers.
      1. +2
        11 June 2024 11: 47
        Quote: agond
        if their range of action is large and they can control large areas, for example S-300 and S-400 in Crimea, then it is better for them to be in stationary shelters

        Will not help. With the current accuracy and range of BR, CR and UAB, you can easily achieve targeted destruction of shelters with 1-2 ammunition. And penetration of the same UABs is quite enough to destroy concrete arched shelters for aircraft.
    2. +5
      11 June 2024 12: 06
      Quote: antiaircrafter
      Also, nothing prevents you from covering the positions of long-range fighters with Shilkas, ZU-23-2, or anti-aircraft machine gun installations.

      When was the last time you saw operational Shilkas? And besides, their RPK-2 radio instrument system, even during exercises in ideal test site conditions, detected no more than 30% of air targets. The probability of hitting an air target flying at a speed of 200 m/s when passing through the zone for the ZU-23 is 0,02, and for the ZPU it is clearly no higher. These installations can be effective against attack aircraft and helicopters, but not against anti-aircraft missiles and anti-ship missiles. In addition, their crews need to be given target designation, and a strike from the above weapons flying at low altitude is always sudden. We have nothing better than the Pantsir air defense system for protecting the S-300/400.
      1. -1
        11 June 2024 12: 18
        We have nothing better than the Pantsir air defense system for protecting the S-300/400.

        I agree with this opinion. But it seems there are not enough of them for everyone. Therefore, Shilka will have to be revived, if possible.
        I did not suggest using them against anti-aircraft missiles and ballistics. But in the article, I also point out drones as threats, so the ZPU and ZPU can be fenced off from them.
        1. +3
          11 June 2024 12: 25
          Quote: antiaircrafter
          Therefore, Shilka will have to be revived, if possible.

          Alas, for most of "Shilok" this is not possible. It’s easier and more efficient to make new complexes.
          Quote: antiaircrafter
          I did not suggest using them against anti-aircraft missiles and ballistics. But in the article, I also point out drones as threats, so the ZPU and ZPU can be fenced off from them.

          The main losses of the S-300/S-400 are from ballistics, anti-aircraft missiles and missile defense.
  26. 0
    11 June 2024 08: 10
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    UMPC, the production of which, according to reports, the Skakly have recently mastered

    It's more like PR. They have GBU-39, AASM and have had JDAM-ER for a long time. The problem lies precisely in our air defense and fighter aircraft, which do not allow us to rise high.
  27. 0
    11 June 2024 08: 34
    The author is not aware that SU-34s are covered by SU-35 and SU-30 fighters when launching strikes? The FA does not rely only on ground-based air defense systems.
    1. +1
      11 June 2024 09: 10
      I wrote about the same thing, the comment was deleted wink
  28. +3
    11 June 2024 08: 59
    what is the article about? It is advisable to put the author's name at the beginning of the article and the reading time will be noticeably less :-) in war - like in hockey or football: if you don't score, then they score against you...
  29. +1
    11 June 2024 09: 28
    Well, actually this issue is resolved quite simply. Without a bunch of soldiers rushing back and forth with MANPADS. Ever since World War II, bombers have been working under the cover of fighters. Therefore, it is necessary to use the SU-34 with the cover of the SU-35 or even the SU-57. These fighters have a powerful radar and very long-range missiles, allowing them to detect and shoot the F-16 from a safe distance, even before it reaches the strike position.
  30. +2
    11 June 2024 09: 37
    I want common sense in everything. If we are at war, then we come up with everything and prepare a worthy response, we predict their actions in advance, one step forward. They are extremely clear, escalating the situation step by step.
    Do we have talented military personnel capable of thinking strategically and on a large scale?
    I really want to believe in it.....
    1. The comment was deleted.
  31. 0
    11 June 2024 09: 43
    But I’m wondering why the launchers should be placed so close to the radar installation and control points. If it is for data exchange, then radio communication has been invented for a hundred years already, and if it is jammed, then optical communication, etc., etc. I think with a laser you can transmit data to the horizon... And there is also all sorts of quantum magic and other things that are inexplicable for the average person. What prevents the radar from being connected in a chain so that if one is lost, it will be picked up by another.

    If this is not done because there are no polymers and other money, then what is more expensive - the loss of the division or selling a couple of dachas with 1000+ square meters that came from somewhere from individual figures.
    1. +1
      11 June 2024 12: 05
      Quote: Last centurion
      If it’s for data exchange, then it’s been a hundred years since radio communication was invented

      Which unmasks the positions of the air defense missile system for the enemy's RTR. They should switch to optics - fiber optics (if you want to keep the crew busy carrying cables) or without cables, directly (the crew still needs to orient the launcher to the control panel - let them at the same time orient the receiver-transmitter on the control panel to the control panel).
      1. 0
        11 June 2024 19: 55
        Quote: Alexey RA
        They should switch to optics

        FOCL is available in the S-400. FOCL was already in PM, but in those days the material did not tolerate severe frosts well.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        or without cables, directly (the calculations still need to orient the PU towards the CP - let the receiver-transmitter on the PU be oriented at the CP at the same time)

        F2 always had radio contact with the launcher.
    2. 0
      11 June 2024 19: 51
      Quote: Last centurion
      What prevents the radar from being connected in a chain so that if one is lost, it will be picked up by another.

      In the missile defense and air defense mode against high-speed maneuvering targets, the missile defense system must be accompanied by the radar, so the launcher must be located not far from the radar.
  32. +9
    11 June 2024 09: 54
    In the third year of the war, our brilliant commander-in-chief no longer hides the fact that he sees air defense systems as the only defense against the F-16. Not an agent network that merges the coordinates of their base, not a remote sensing system that confirms these coordinates... And everyone is fine. The further it goes, the more interesting it becomes for me - did Putin, at the beginning of February 2022, really so inadequately assess the real effectiveness of his system and manual managers, or did he count, at the suggestion of these same managers, that things were still much worse for the Ukrainians?
    1. -6
      11 June 2024 11: 46
      We miscalculated something, but... If NATO had not fully integrated itself, putting the whole of Ukraine on its back, everything would have ended in March. By the way, they themselves admitted it. So the calculation may have been that the system would not withstand the impact. Actually, until the fall, forces numerically smaller than the enemy’s were completely pressing. But with reinforcements deployed, fully trained by NATO and revised tactics, it was possible to destroy our practically non-existent defense. Again, the decision was made not based on the fact that we will ruin everything right now, but on the basis that if we don’t start right now, then in a day or two the offensive on Donbass will begin. Caught on the march. So no need to put on a smart face, just take more into account.
      1. +1
        11 June 2024 12: 28
        Quote: Foxmara
        But with reinforcements deployed, fully trained by NATO and revised tactics, it was possible to destroy our practically non-existent defense.

        But what was happening in Ukraine: mass mobilization, training in NATO, the supply of weapons by the West and preparations for the autumn offensive of 2022... it was not even hidden! So why haven't adequate measures been developed to counter this? We had time. They took advantage of this time 100% (we allowed them), but we did not.
      2. +1
        11 June 2024 19: 47
        Quote: Foxmara
        Again, the decision was made not based on the fact that we will ruin everything right now, but on the basis that if we don’t start right now, then in a day or two the offensive on Donbass will begin.

        And to Belarus from four places, they always forget about it.
    2. +9
      11 June 2024 12: 19
      Quote: Mikhail Toropov
      In the third year of the war, our brilliant commander-in-chief no longer hides the fact that he sees air defense systems as the only defense against the F-16. Not an agent network that merges the coordinates of their base, not a remote sensing system that confirms these coordinates...

      Well, the General Staff will receive intelligence that the F-16s are sitting in Poland with a jump-off airfield somewhere in the West. So, what is next? Picking apart the runway in the hope of catching the Falcons while refueling?
      Quote: Mikhail Toropov
      The further it goes, the more interesting it becomes for me - did Putin, at the beginning of February 2022, really so inadequately assess the real effectiveness of his system and manual managers, or did he count, at the suggestion of these same managers, that things were still much worse for the Ukrainians?

      Have you forgotten how official propaganda told us about the fraternal people oppressed by the evil Banderaites and Right Sectorists, who arrived from Mars, no less? How did they talk about the little adequate pro-Russian Ukrainians who are just waiting to be freed? How was it emphasized in every possible way that volunteer battalions are Nazis and punitive forces, but the Armed Forces of Ukraine are something completely different? At the same time, everything that contradicted the official point of view was rejected and hushed up in every possible way - such as the predominance of immigrants from the east and center of Ukraine in the troops leading the ATO, or the direct participation of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in terrorist attacks on the cities of Novorossiya.
      In general, once again we stepped on a rake: the foreign proletarian is our friend, comrade and brother, and at the sight of the Red Army he will turn his bayonets against the oppressors.
      Comrade Mehlis was right...
      The harmful prejudice was deeply rooted that the supposedly population of the countries entering the war with the USSR would inevitably, almost without exception, rise and go over to the side of the Red Army, that the workers and peasants would meet us with flowers. This false belief arises from ignorance of the actual situation in neighboring countries. The war in Finland showed that we did not conduct political intelligence in the northern regions and therefore did not know with what slogans to go to this population and how to conduct work among them. We often treated peasants as a working class, but it turns out that this peasant is a big fist, a Shutskorovets, and he reacts in his own way. Collision with reality demagnetizes our fighter and commander, who is used to viewing the population of foreign countries from a general - superficial point of view. We need to know what the population of this or that country lives and is interested in.
      It must be said that in the field of the political study of the enemy we have made more than one mistake and we have small achievements in work among the troops and population of the enemy.
  33. 0
    11 June 2024 11: 14
    Skomorokhov, of course, is burning again.

    """ That is, an air defense system (MANPADS) is needed, which will protect the air defense system. It sounds, of course, so-so"""

    The author has not heard about layered defense? At all? What is a shell, haven’t you heard? Thor? Or beech?

    Throughout the text I read: the F-16 is garbage, what does it matter to the Su-35, but it’s not much better than the Mig-29.

    Skomorokhov, have you read about its modifications with Afar and Amraam missiles? Are you sure he's that bad? Especially in conjunction with NATO intelligence....
    1. 0
      11 June 2024 12: 00
      The Ukrainians were given the F-16 block 50/52 which is an AFAR, but the AIM-120 is really a problem.
      1. 0
        11 June 2024 18: 17
        Woro, that's good. But are you sure that this will really happen?
    2. +2
      11 June 2024 13: 10
      Quote from Savage3000
      The author has not heard about layered defense? At all? What is a shell, haven’t you heard? Thor? Or beech?

      There are not enough shells for everyone - they have now been dismantled for the air defense facility.
      But the Tors and Buks have nothing to do with the S-400 from the air defense of the Aerospace Forces - these are military air defense systems. Yes, in peacetime they were involved in carrying combat missions as part of the country's air defense. But now they are employed for their intended purpose - providing air defense for ground forces.
      1. 0
        11 June 2024 18: 20
        Alex,

        1. Have you read the article? It’s about what’s enough or what’s not enough, but what’s funny to the author. Re-read.

        2. Thank you for the educational program about military and target air defense. But they could have omitted it. What makes you think that I don’t know this?

        3. If it is necessary to protect something, it does not matter at what stage the air defense system was built and to whom it is subordinated. The same beech with S-400 works automatically.
  34. +1
    11 June 2024 11: 26
    The topic is very interesting, but unfortunately it is not fully covered. The author is not entirely correct in places.
    For example:
    Considering that in those years the air defense systems and the radars serving them were very bulky and not very mobile, this was easier to do than today...

    Let's compare the dimensions of the SNR-75 and the RPN 30N6, as well as the P-18 radar and the 35D6 radar?
    Taking into account the fact that the SA-75M air defense system used in Vietnam (there was no S-75 there) with the V-750 liquid-propelled air defense system differed from the S-300P air defense system as a matchlock musket from a modern assault rifle, the comparisons are more than strange. In terms of mobility, the SA-75M air defense system was certainly inferior to the S-300P, but the means of air attack were also different. And it was no easier to fight aviation air defense systems then than it is now. No.
  35. 0
    11 June 2024 11: 40
    no matter how you look at it, you still have to confuse your eyes. and drills and drones. Even if you swear on your face that it wasn’t us, but the slippers from BV, it won’t be any worse, they’re already working according to our standards.
  36. +2
    11 June 2024 11: 54
    What's the point of the F-16 anyway? As a fighter against our Su-30SM2 and Su-35S, it is nothing, and so much has been written about this that I don’t want to repeat it.
    Roman, if it’s you, of course, and not a bunch of turbo-patriots under your name, you seriously believe in the nonsense that you wrote, the F-16 fighter and its modern modifications are head and shoulders above any Aerospace Forces aircraft in terms of overall characteristics, and in the number of downed air targets as well destroyed ground targets, he is the absolute champion in the world, did you know about it or don’t want to know, and most importantly, how many F-16 fighters are there in the world, more than 4000 units, which undergo regular modernization and are equipped with the latest weapons, and most importantly, the training of flight and ground personnel.
    For general development, I recommend a large series of articles about the F-16 fighter, so to speak, from the beginning to now, the history of this fighter under the authorship of Mikhail Nikolsky, including where he describes the machines created on the basis of this legendary fighter, read it, you won’t regret it, maybe There will be less empty propaganda.
  37. +2
    11 June 2024 11: 55
    I don’t even understand, our military commanders have been talking about “Anti-Access/Area Denial, A2/AD” zones according to NATO for twenty years now. What is a layered defense zone consisting of air defense/missile defense systems, short/medium/long range, air defense aviation and electronic warfare/electronic warfare systems? As I understand it, nothing has been done, but what about the impregnable Kaliningrad enclave and the Crimean peninsula.
  38. 0
    11 June 2024 12: 07
    Why did they suddenly remember the F-16? After all, they said that the airfields from which these planes take off were subject to destruction. Or do you lack the courage and determination to do it? Damn, when will our promises not diverge from their fulfillment? Where did this pepelats take off from, which struck the territory of Russia, and where did it land? Or is this what we see, but what is far from visible?
  39. +4
    11 June 2024 12: 45
    Skomorokhov has become a graphomaniac. It’s a very long article with elementary truths. You need to write it briefly, concisely and not pour water. As for the answers to the deliveries of the F 16, there won’t be any with this supreme non-commander. The downed Russian Il 76 over Russian Belgorod from an American patriot is something changed?
  40. 0
    11 June 2024 12: 50
    We need to prepare Zerg Rush.

    They are already preparing.
  41. exo
    +5
    11 June 2024 12: 57
    The gap in the means of reconnaissance and surveillance of the air and ground situation is becoming increasingly clear. And the availability of timely information about the situation in the air is more important than any super-maneuverability for the aircraft and the pilot.
    Unfortunately, there will be no breakthrough against AWACS aircraft. We have also not heard of reconnaissance aircraft based on the TU-204. Weak hope for the satellite component. Large UAVs for the AWACS function were also not announced.
    Under such conditions, covering the S-300/400 will always be a problem. Alternatively: constant change of positions and maximum dispersion. At least in areas close to the northwestern district. I think that covering them with something like “Shell” is already spelled out in the documents. Most likely, there is simply a lack of these systems.
    1. -3
      11 June 2024 19: 23
      So the article is about the F-16, how to catch these scoundrels, and not about the fact that there is not enough air defense, of course there is not enough, thousands of kilometers cannot be guaranteed to be covered. But what if a secret team was suddenly created to develop measures to hunt for the F-16, involving both ground air defense and space reconnaissance, etc. then there is a chance, you can catch it
  42. BAI
    +4
    11 June 2024 13: 05
    For NATO structures everything is simpler, where an AWACS aircraft can carry out target designation directly to its aircraft using its own communication channels

    1. Ukraine now has 2 NATO AWACS aircraft. Those. Theoretically they can aim at the target themselves.
    2. Naturally, the United States will direct. Airplanes and missiles do not care from whom they receive information
  43. +5
    11 June 2024 14: 53
    “against our Su-30SM2 and Su-35S it means nothing, and so much has been written about it that I don’t want to repeat it. As an attack aircraft against ground targets, it’s the same dull phenomenon” ///
    ---
    Both theses are a delusion and an underestimation of the enemy.
    1) The Su-16 poses a serious threat to the F-57. And a certain threat - the Su-35.
    The F-16 is quite capable of outmaneuvering other fighters in the air. Especially in a group battle.
    2) Ground strikes - here the F-16 is the champion. Suspended rangefinder pylons that accompany the target allow you to accurately attack not only stationary but also moving targets. Putting a rocket into a fast motorcycle for the F-16 is not difficult.
    In this it is far ahead of the Su-34.
  44. 0
    11 June 2024 15: 35
    Here I would like to think that the problems will be solved comprehensively, and the solution proposed by the author is certainly logical and has a right to exist, but I would classify it more as the so-called. passive means of protection.
    Further. Referring incl. to the rhetoric of the official Kremlin on the possible use of the F16 by Ukraine, I dare say that we have some kind of ace up our sleeve on this topic.
    More precisely. There have been repeated statements from the Russian side that the emerging F16s will become a legitimate target for us.
    It’s worth adding here: a priority goal.
    Those. : The enemy plane is not a needle - it is visible on radars and from satellites.
    Regular strikes by our Aerospace Forces on enemy airfields, incl. are aimed at suppressing possible infrastructure for servicing F16s and themselves, if they are already there.
    The West also understands this and will seriously consider the possibility of F16 operations from airfields outside of Ukraine.
    Here our “sword thrusts” with high-precision, not yet nuclear weapons at home airfields (possibly Romania, Poland) become logical. Well, that is. if the blow is delivered, incl. aviation across our territory from the territory of NATO countries, then what remains for us?
    It is worth noting here that this is exactly what Zelensky passionately desires. Push Russia and NATO into conflict.
    This is also understood in the West. And, until recently, they refrained from using NATO-made combat aircraft. Obviously, on the Ukrainian theater of war, events are unfolding very “in the wrong direction” for them.
  45. -6
    11 June 2024 18: 27
    Nuclear strikes destroying European countries will solve all problems. Europe must be destroyed.
  46. +2
    11 June 2024 18: 38
    nothing about this, are there real cases of combat use of one against the other? or will we throw our hats again**?? EFKs don’t “go” one at a time..and everything is worked out there from start to finish..and the nomenclature of the “suspension” is such that we can only envy.....so,
  47. +1
    11 June 2024 18: 47
    One way to minimize damage to air defense systems from cluster munitions like ATACMS is to bury the launcher tubes in the ground. This will be easier for systems like S-400/300 that launches vertically. One can have as many as such subsurface tubes as possible in such a way that will make it difficult for the other side to distinguish between loaded and unloaded tubes.
  48. -7
    11 June 2024 18: 55
    Quote: Letun
    War is about the economy, and only the most frostbitten idiot can think that the Russian economy is stronger than the Western one.

    That’s what they thought there too, hoping that the Russian Federation would collapse in half a year. Only they are not fighting with Dior perfumes, iPhones, stocks and banking services. Russia cannot be defeated, and if they don’t come to their senses, we will leave together.
  49. +2
    11 June 2024 19: 09
    Unfortunately, air defense officers as a new class of warriors are very poorly represented in cinema, literature and the media. I remember comparing the officers of the S-75 division in which my uncle served with representatives of the geological community of my father. Unlike the geologists of my father's friends' colleagues - tall, cheerful, strong guys who were always celebrating something and singing songs at the table (I did not suspect then that they worked incredibly hard and these feasts were a release once a month or less often) the officers were not distinguished by such a violent disposition. They were slender, fit young men with rather intelligent faces. Almost everyone worked abroad and therefore near each 2-family cottage there were garages with brand new Volgas. Their favorite hobbies were hunting and fishing. The division commander loved to show off his pride, the Sauer 3 ring hunting rifle. Later, as a student at the Mining Institute, I was rather frivolous about studying for military service. We, future air defense reserve officers, played truant, skipped school, and in every possible way prevented the teachers from teaching us the profession of sky defenders. But today, when we are bombed by American missiles, I pray for my defenders, the glorious border guards of the sky!
  50. +1
    11 June 2024 19: 29
    Quote: geologist
    Unfortunately, air defense officers as a new class of warriors are very poorly represented in cinema, literature and the media. I remember comparing the officers of the S-75 division in which my uncle served with representatives of the geological community of my father.

    It's true. Our paratroopers defeat enemies with their hands, it’s good that not with the power of thought. And so I remembered the 1964 film “Keys to the Sky” with Alexander Linkov, remember - Hey, fisherman? By the way, this film has a very high rating, higher than “In the Special Attention Zone.” It was C75 there, and they filmed it in Crimea, at Cape Opuk, now only the embankment of the positions remained, I was there.
  51. +3
    11 June 2024 19: 49
    What worries me more is that at least 30% of Ukrainian missile and drone attacks reach their targets by breaking through our air defenses. (And I don’t need to write about isolated cases of complete reflection). And these are just one-time attacks by the Western and Ukrainians themselves with their own weapons. What will happen if all NATO forces launch all their missiles and drones at our rear and important targets?
  52. +1
    11 June 2024 21: 24
    In the current conditions of the so-called Northern Military District, with its “emphasis” on non-Zhukovsky offensive operations by armies and fronts, the answer to the question of Roman Skomorokhov’s article “lies” on the surface. With such tactics and strategy of war, for a multipolar, denazification world, we need deeply echeloned air defense and missile defense defense of the LBS and the territory of the Russian Federation.... And about the F-16, for Mr. Skomorokhov, I will repeat... This device is a fairly good solution American aviation industry, with a good reliable “engine”, excellent avionics, means of conducting network-centric warfare, successful electronic warfare-electronic warfare, sufficient weapons for a light fighter or a platform for launching missiles....
  53. +2
    12 June 2024 00: 31
    Quote: Commissar Kitten
    There will be no use of nuclear weapons. Nobody needs this. The plan was to conduct a small victorious special operation. Now they are waging war because, well, they can’t just give back. And there on the horizon some option will turn up. Some expect Putin to leave, others that Trump will come, something will happen over time, sooner or later. And the fact that people are dying and cities are being destroyed is strangers and strangers’ houses, that’s their logic.

    Until 2022, I didn’t believe that this could begin. Now I believe that ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING can happen. And I’m afraid many people believe this, which is why the tension continues
  54. +1
    12 June 2024 00: 43
    Quote: voyaka uh
    “against our Su-30SM2 and Su-35S it means nothing, and so much has been written about it that I don’t want to repeat it. As an attack aircraft against ground targets, it’s the same dull phenomenon” ///
    ---
    Both theses are a delusion and an underestimation of the enemy.
    1) The Su-16 poses a serious threat to the F-57. And a certain threat - the Su-35.
    The F-16 is quite capable of outmaneuvering other fighters in the air. Especially in a group battle.
    2) Ground strikes - here the F-16 is the champion. Suspended rangefinder pylons that accompany the target allow you to accurately attack not only stationary but also moving targets. Putting a rocket into a fast motorcycle for the F-16 is not difficult.
    In this it is far ahead of the Su-34.

    We are champions of underestimating the enemy. Otherwise, we would have a lot of UAVs of all types in front of us. It is elementary to analyze previous wars.
  55. 0
    12 June 2024 01: 14
    Quote: Tarusa Petrova
    I want common sense in everything. If we are at war, then we come up with everything and prepare a worthy response, we predict their actions in advance, one step forward. They are extremely clear, escalating the situation step by step.
    Do we have talented military personnel capable of thinking strategically and on a large scale?
    I really want to believe in it.....

    I want to. But. Surovikin, in whom people believed in some unknown place. Although Prigozhin was not a general, he was a patriot, and what happened to him? Popov was arrested. And the minister was simply transferred to another position, but he probably turned out to be just like the elusive Joe. So who should think about that? Or who to trust? It's time to brainstorm at the top, and not rely only on your buddies.
    1. 0
      12 June 2024 14: 37
      Dear Matsur! The General Staff of the RF Armed Forces must “think” about war. And the Minister of Defense of the Armed Forces must take care of the quantity and quality of shells, tanks and aircraft, not forgetting about soldiers’ uniforms and rations..... And closely monitor the “cleanliness of the ranks” and the financial discipline of the military department.....
  56. 0
    12 June 2024 01: 48
    That is, an air defense system (MANPADS) is needed that will protect the air defense system. It sounds, of course, so-so. But this is a modern reality.

    Layered air defense is not a new and good idea, but I think we will need more of our own AWACS aircraft with which we can hit falcons with missiles not only of air defense systems but also with long-range SU-35 missiles!
  57. kvv
    0
    12 June 2024 10: 30
    everything will remain the same, Putin and his military headquarters will intimidate the balabols a little with asymmetrical answers and will quietly fall silent, driven into a corner
  58. -1
    12 June 2024 11: 10
    Quote: Essex62
    It would be nice to get smart enough to delve into the essence of the statements. Although, what am I talking about? The bourgeois henchmen have brains only for purses.

    I think the prosecutor’s office will understand the deep meanings and essence of your calls in the Russian media to “knock the capitalists” in Moscow and St. Petersburg.
  59. -1
    12 June 2024 15: 07
    Clearing the skies for the F-16 has begun, how will Russia respond?

    Until now, military air defense has been actively fighting, now it is the turn of the country’s air defense/missile defense. After the Victory, no one will give even a penny for bourgeois equipment. soldier
  60. 0
    12 June 2024 16: 39
    It is very stupid to write that the F-16 is not capable of anything against our Su-30/35.

    Remember the author and everyone who thinks the same as him, that the performance characteristics of an aircraft and its weapons are decided - this is not so, everything is decided by tactics!!!
  61. 0
    12 June 2024 19: 20
    From words to deeds. It’s time to start delivering in full swing to countries that are undesirable for the USA, first of all, and geyropa
  62. 0
    12 June 2024 23: 33
    Quote: Vadim Kozyakov
    Istanbul was based on capitulation?

    Have you seen the document in the public domain? Or do you know someone personally who prepared it? If not, then everything else is grandma’s thinking.
  63. 0
    12 June 2024 23: 37
    Quote from buv59
    From words to deeds. It’s time to start delivering in full swing to countries that are undesirable for the USA, first of all, and geyropa

    Deliveries of what and, most importantly, to whom? For some reason I don’t see a line of people who want to jump against the US/NATO. Of course, they will take you to the warehouses for free and/or for bananas. But Russia now needs missiles and tanks itself.
  64. 0
    13 June 2024 08: 40
    The entire vertical of power on the outskirts needs to be brought down. The airfields are completely disabled so that even the corn farmer doesn’t run away. And you can fight drones for decades. Who needs it?
  65. 0
    13 June 2024 11: 58
    Well, now liberal discussions will begin, like hey, we lost, it’s time to end it
  66. 0
    13 June 2024 13: 29
    The Soviet echeloned military air defense, where air defense systems of various classes and fighter aircraft worked in tandem, had already shown their worth. For example, in Syria in 1973, when more than 100 air defense systems of various classes (S-75, S-125, Kvadrat, Osa, Strela-1 on the BRDM) in conjunction with the MiG-21 staged a small Armageddon attack on the Israeli aviation. Then, for the first time, the Jews were unable to immediately gain absolute air supremacy and suffered very serious losses in aviation.
    The problem is that the apologists of the “compact contract army” have reduced the number of air force and air defense units to minuscule amounts. There are simply not enough air defense systems and aircraft in numbers to prevent the air defense forces from being overloaded with enemy attack weapons.
    Indeed, ideally, air defense units should form a continuous front, and in any direction, three air defense units should be positioned so that the flank units (regiments, divisions) completely cover the cover zone of the central regiment (division). And this division is a kind of “ambush regiment” that enters the battle at a critical moment, bringing a turning point.
    It is also natural that long-range air defense systems should be covered by standard short-range air defense systems - air defense systems or short-range air defense systems (Tunguska, Pantsir, Tor).
    And this requires staff adjustments. For example, the S-300V air defense system, in addition to 16-24 launchers of the S-300V air defense missile system, must normally have at least 8-12 air defense systems and at least one Tor air defense missile launcher per battery.
    Also, the position areas of long-range air defense systems should be covered by fighters and Su-35/Su-57. It is these fighters that must be the first to engage enemy aircraft. The lifting of the F-16 should immediately cause the appearance of our "dryers" with long-range air-to-air missiles in the air.
    But, I repeat, the main problem is the small number of both ground-based air defense units and fighter aircraft. After all, apologists for the “compact contract army” out of hand rejected even the theoretical possibility of an armed clash with “respected Western partners.” That’s why air defense was built against tramps in slippers with AKMs and RPGs.
  67. 0
    13 June 2024 13: 33
    Quote: Sergey Prutkov55
    The entire vertical of power on the outskirts needs to be brought down. The airfields are completely disabled so that even the corn farmer doesn’t run away. And you can fight drones for decades. Who needs it?

    Those who profit from military supplies at inflated prices and cut through the military budget.
  68. 0
    13 June 2024 17: 39
    Quote: gsev
    Only the death of millions of German and hundreds of thousands of French soldiers in the wars of the 19th and 20th centuries made it possible for 50 years after the wars to maintain normal relations in Europe

    Well, why talk about the French? There, in fact, Russia attacked France. Napoleon tried to the last to avoid war with Russia.
  69. 0
    13 June 2024 20: 28
    again a mischief
  70. 0
    14 June 2024 19: 20
    One question. It's rhetorical. Why didn't we carry out a large-scale air operation at the very beginning? You don't have to answer, comments are unnecessary.
  71. 0
    15 June 2024 00: 19
    If the “clearing of the sky” follows the NATO scenario, then common Russia will respond with open indignation. And Russia is “Kremlin” with regular concerns, “difficult decisions” and stimulation of searches for a new “Minsk” (or “Istanbul”). What do you expect? sad
  72. 0
    15 June 2024 10: 09
    Somehow the article sounded unsure whether our answer would be effective. I think so, if Western guidance systems (AWACS) are not destroyed, then the response will not be effective.
  73. 0
    16 June 2024 10: 15
    Today, F-16s can only operate from airfields in Poland and Romania. F-16s cannot operate from the territory of Ukraine, because there is no infrastructure to service them, and the one that was created in Starokonstantinov for a year was destroyed. This is not a Lada, I filled it with gas and drove off. The actions of the F-16 from the territory of Poland or Romania are already an act of direct aggression by NATO with all that it entails; here Ukraine will not be able to disguise itself.
  74. 0
    18 June 2024 04: 28
    Quote: Letun
    10 aircraft per year

    “The Military Balance directory in January 2023 counted more than a hundred Su-34s and up to 7 Su-34M units in Russia. The forecast of the American publication Military Watch: by 2027, the Russian Aerospace Forces will receive about two hundred modernized Su-34s.” - our exact numbers are not reported for obvious reasons, we have to be content with the enemy’s.
    Apparently you counted by carcasses, where did this figure of 10 come from?
  75. 0
    18 June 2024 13: 11
    Russia will respond to Putin's tour of Southeast Asian countries