Swedish AWACS S 100D Argus aircraft for Ukraine: priority target

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Swedish AWACS S 100D Argus aircraft for Ukraine: priority target
S 100D aircraft from the Swedish Air Force


At the end of May, the Swedish government approved a new package of military-technical assistance for the Kyiv regime. It included S 100D Argus long-range radar detection and control aircraft with the ASC 890 radar system, which are in service with the Swedish Air Force. It is expected that the transfer of this equipment will improve the capabilities of the Ukrainian Air Force to illuminate the situation and combat air targets. At the same time, the operation of Swedish AWACS aircraft will face a number of restrictions and risks.



In a new package


On May 29, the Swedish government approved the next, already 16th, package of military-technical assistance to Ukraine. It included a variety of equipment, weapons and property with a total value of 13,3 billion crowns (approx. 1,15 billion euros), and at the moment this is the most expensive package from Sweden. At the expense of such expenses they plan to help restore the potential of Ukrainian formations in several areas.

Thus, in order to restore and strengthen Ukrainian air defense, it is planned to transfer S 100D Argus AEW&C aircraft, also known as Saab 340 AEW&C or ASC 890. Together with aviation Equipment for its maintenance and repair will be transferred to the equipment. It is also planned to organize training for Ukrainian crews and some methodological support for combat use.

Currently, the Swedish Air Force has only two Argus in service. It has not yet been announced how many of these aircraft are going to be given to the Kyiv regime, and the wording from the official press release allows for two interpretations. However, the Swedish and foreign press have already learned from their informed sources that both aircraft available in Sweden will go to Ukraine.

The timing of the aircraft transfer remains unknown. According to known data, both S 100Ds are ready for operation and can fly to a new duty station at almost any time. However, the Swedish government pointed out the need to train Ukrainian pilots. If this process has not been started previously behind closed doors, it will take some time.

The transfer of S 100D aircraft to the Kyiv regime will negatively affect the state of the Swedish AWACS aircraft fleet. But, as it turned out, this issue has already been resolved. The Air Force will exercise a previously signed option for two S 106 GlobalEye aircraft, and will also place an additional order for a pair of such aircraft. Due to this, in the distant future it will be possible to compensate for the current reduction in the fleet.

Aircraft in service


The future AWACS aircraft Saab 340 AEW&C / S 100B was developed in the early nineties by order of the Swedish Air Force. The lead contractor for the work was Saab AB. It also provided a ready-made air platform in the form of a slightly modified Saab 340 passenger aircraft, which the Air Force designated as the S 100B. The PS 890 Erieye radar complex was created by Ericsson Microwave Systems (now part of Saab).


The first flight of the prototype S 100B with a radar mock-up took place in 1994. Work on the radar was completed approximately two years later, which made it possible to carry out all the necessary tests. In 1997, the new AWACS aircraft was officially put into service. By this time, the first aircraft had been built, and they immediately began full service.

The Swedish Air Force ordered only 4 AWACS aircraft based on the S 100B. We also purchased two similar aircraft in the cargo-passenger version. The construction of all six aircraft was completed in 1999. All of them remain in operation to this day, but over the past decades, some of them have changed owners.

In 2003, a pair of Saab 340 AEW&C aircraft from the Swedish Air Force underwent modernization and received a new modification of the EMB-145 radar system. Immediately after this they were leased to Greece. A few years later the planes returned home. The two remaining boards in 2006-2009. underwent a major overhaul and received a new ASC 890 radar. They continue to serve in this configuration to this day.

Thailand became the second foreign operator of the Saab 340 AEW&C after Greece. He received a pair of aircraft in 2012 and still uses them today. In 2016, Sweden signed a contract to supply two S 100Ds to the UAE. Their service ended in 2020, when the Emirati Air Force received a new type of AWACS aircraft. The released planes returned to Sweden, and after several years of inactivity they were sold to Poland. The first of them was adopted by the Polish Air Force last fall. The second one is expected to be accepted.

In the foreseeable future, Ukraine should become another operator of the S 100D ASC 890. It will be given two aircraft that remain in service with the Swedish Air Force. As a result of these events, all existing Argus will be operated only outside of Sweden.

Technical features


The basis for the AWACS aircraft was the passenger Saab 340 / S 100B, which has an optimal balance of technical characteristics. It is a 20,6 m long twin-engine low-wing aircraft with a straight wing span of 21,4 m and a maximum take-off weight of approx. 13,2 tons. Two General Electric CT7-9B turboprop engines with a power of 1870 hp each. give a cruising speed of at least 520 km/h, a range of more than 1300 km and allow you to stay in the air for at least 5 hours.

The latest modification of the aircraft carries the ASC 890 radar complex. Its antenna device with a pair of active phased arrays is located above the fuselage in an oblong casing. The rest of the radar equipment is placed inside the cargo-passenger cabin. Operator workplaces are also located there.


Thai Air Force S 100B

The ASC 890 radar is built around a pulse-Doppler locator with AFAR and electronic scanning. The characteristic elongated shape of the gratings made it possible to increase the aperture. Two AFARs provide all-round visibility. At the same time, the greatest range and detection efficiency is ensured in lateral sectors 150° wide. The bow and tail sectors, each 30° wide, have limited capabilities. In particular, they make it difficult to track targets.

Depending on flight altitude, target size and other factors, the ASC 890 can conduct surveillance all the way to the radio horizon. For an aerial target of the fighter type, the range does not exceed 400-425 km. The radar equipment is capable of automatically tracking several dozen air and ground targets. Link 11 and Link 16 communication devices are available.

Operational Capacity


Like other AEW&C aircraft, the Swedish S 100D AEW&C are designed for long-term duty in the air, monitoring the air situation, detecting various targets and issuing data about them to other users and assets. They are expected to be used in this role as part of the Ukrainian Air Force.

Foreign publications link the transfer of Swedish aircraft to the expected delivery of F-16 fighters to Ukraine. It is assumed that the S 100D will support the operations of these aircraft in solving tasks Defense. The AWACS aircraft, together with other ground and air reconnaissance assets, Ukrainian and NATO, will have to track the activity of the Russian army, identify aircraft and missiles, and also direct fighters at them.

In theory, this approach to the use of aviation technology makes sense and will solve some of the problems. However, in practice a number of serious and even critical problems will arise. As a result, Swedish AWACS aircraft and American fighters will not be able to even partially realize their potential.

AWACS aircraft, regardless of their type and specific characteristics, are an important component of any air force and improve their capabilities. For this reason, they are a priority target to identify and defeat. It is obvious that the Russian armed forces will do everything possible to quickly locate and destroy the pair of S 100Ds being transferred. Thanks to this, the potential of the “window forces” will remain at a low level and will continue to systematically decline. The risks for a pair of S 100Ds are clear and well known.

Thus, for the effective use of the transferred aircraft, the Swedish and Ukrainian sides will have to prepare a system for their basing and operation. It is likely that a pair of S 100Ds will be deployed at Ukrainian airfields. At the same time, the Russian army can open such a base and hit it. The destruction or damage of ground-based technical equipment will seriously affect the operation of aviation equipment.


New Saab GlobalEye replacing S 100D

In addition, the AWACS aircraft themselves on the ground may come under attack. They, by definition, cannot remain in the air all the time, and returning to the airfield may involve known risks.

However, the S 100D pair will be exposed to the greatest danger during combat duty in the air. The Russian army simply will not allow them to work in peace. Onboard radar systems will face the problem of suppression by means of EW, and the planes themselves will become the object of a real hunt. For this purpose, fighters or ground-based anti-aircraft systems will be used. All of them have a chance to hit a valuable target.

At the same time, the ability of an AWACS aircraft to detect an attack will not provide any fundamental advantages. Attempts to organize fighter cover make sense, but also do not guarantee success - in a number of situations, fighters will become the same target for missiles as the S 100D.

With all this, it should be taken into account that Sweden is sending only two AWACS aircraft to Ukraine. This is not enough for constant duty in the air, and an attempt to ensure it will lead to increased consumption of an already limited resource. In addition, the loss of even one aircraft will effectively return the capabilities of the Ukrainian Air Force to its original level.

Strange Help


Thus, another foreign country has decided to provide aviation equipment to Ukraine and is probably already preparing aircraft for transfer. However, it is already clear that the delivery of one or two S 100D AWACS aircraft has very limited prospects - if it makes sense at all.

By giving away its Argus, Sweden is sharply reducing the potential of its own air force and its ability to conduct surveillance. At the same time, Ukraine will not be able to take full advantage of the acquired technology and get maximum results from it. At the same time, it is obvious that the S 100D will become a priority target for detection and destruction, which is why they will not be able to operate at full capacity or will be knocked out quickly enough. Whether they will manage to meet at least part of the expectations before this is a big question.
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  1. +7
    5 June 2024 04: 20
    if it makes any sense at all.

    The point is that before decommissioning obsolete aircraft, test them in real combat conditions, identify critical comments and take them into account when building new ones for your army.
    1. +2
      5 June 2024 09: 50
      The author and you simply have no idea what you are talking about. This AWACS aircraft shines sideways and can fly, for example, in Romania and see our airspace over Crimea and surrounding areas. And communication channels make it possible to direct air defense missiles... This is bad. Very bad... The planes are old, but the locators are new!
      1. +2
        5 June 2024 10: 35
        Quote: Vitov
        This AWACS aircraft shines sideways and can fly, for example, in Romania and see our airspace over Crimea and surrounding areas.

        Why then transfer these planes to Ukraine, if they can fly in Romania on them under NATO identification symbols? As I understand it, they need these planes precisely over the territory of central Ukraine, to work in conjunction with the F-16.
      2. -5
        5 June 2024 11: 26
        And how much will it see when flying in Romania? Cape Tarkhakut))) the point is to look into our airspace at least 100 - 150 kilometers, and ideally even deeper, but the capabilities of the radar are not very good)))
      3. 0
        5 June 2024 12: 06
        they can see everything without these planes
        1. 0
          5 June 2024 17: 47
          Who are they?
          Information can be transferred from American sources to their advisers, or ukrovoyaks, or maybe from Ukrainian ones to them. Clear ? Do you understand the difference? Who controls the process and who controls the intelligence means. There are many nuances here...
          1. 0
            6 June 2024 08: 03
            Americans can see everything even without additional aircraft, of course the information is transmitted and from the very beginning
      4. +3
        5 June 2024 13: 23
        shines sideways
        .....! Why, if there are American drones? This board is needed exclusively for the F-16 to hang further away, point and steer away on time. I think that we squandered, at one time, the creation of such AWACS at home.
        1. +1
          3 July 2024 21: 48
          I wouldn’t say exclusively for F-16s, for Himars and Storm Shadows too. At a safe distance for themselves, they can see at least 200 km beyond the LBS, and this can become a problem, since before this they used hundreds of expensive, scarce reconnaissance drones and lost them, which they will now be able to free up for safer use on the LBS directly.
          1. 0
            4 July 2024 00: 02
            Quote: karabas-barabas
            At a safe distance for themselves, they can see at least 200 km beyond the LBS

            How many kilometers from the LBS is a safe distance for them to see at least 200 km beyond the LBS?
      5. 0
        5 June 2024 15: 35
        Quote: Vitov
        The author and you simply have no idea what you are talking about. This AWACS aircraft shines sideways and can fly, for example, in Romania and see our airspace over Crimea and surrounding areas.

        So all this is already being done by conventional NATO AWACS aircraft. Plus UAV.
        1. +1
          5 June 2024 17: 43
          You decipher the word being made and everything will become clear to you...
  2. -13
    5 June 2024 04: 26
    The Swedes can't forgive us for their defeat at Poltava... The Battle of Poltava was a turning point in the Northern War of 1700-1721, after which the strategic initiative passed from Sweden to Russia... They're just going out of their way to take revenge on us... Swedish politicians are itching to give us a good spanking to permanently discourage them from sticking their long noses into our affairs... am
    1. + 15
      5 June 2024 04: 36
      Nobody remembers about this battle for a long time. Don't delude yourself with illusions
      1. -16
        5 June 2024 04: 46
        Nobody remembers about this battle for a long time. Don't delude yourself with illusions

        Europe has always suffered from forgetfulness (senile sclerosis)... They don't remember - we'll remind you!!! The Russian Army took Berlin by storm twice and Paris three times... So it's not the first time Europe has had to remind us of this, even if it's terribly unpleasant for her...
        1. -13
          5 June 2024 05: 11
          Quote: Lev_Russia
          So this is not the first time Europe has reminded us of this.

          Correct postulate! hi And the downsides are given by beaten Europeans! angry
          1. -6
            5 June 2024 05: 18
            Correct postulate! And the downsides are given by beaten Europeans!

            Thank you!!! I don’t care about the minuses and especially about the “beaten Europeans”!!!
            We beat them, we beat them and we will beat them!!! hi
            1. -6
              5 June 2024 05: 24
              Quote: Lev_Russia
              The Russian Army took Berlin by storm twice and Paris three times...

              I once exhibited this - they downvoted it in black... Phantom pain, apparently crying
            2. +1
              5 June 2024 17: 14
              We beat them, we beat them and we will beat them!!!

              Specifically, did you hit and hit, or are you still more of a couch defense? You can remember the achievements and courage of your ancestors as much as you like, hang a “we can repeat it” sticker on your car and drool from the couch, but it’s another thing to take part in this very war.
        2. +1
          5 June 2024 07: 34
          The Russian Army took Berlin by storm twice and Paris three times...

          Paris was taken once in March 1814. Moreover, there was no need to storm it - the French capitulated after the shelling.
          I don’t remember any other captures...
        3. 0
          5 June 2024 12: 21
          The Russian Army took Berlin by storm twice and Paris three times... So this is not the first time Europe has reminded us of this, even if it is terribly unpleasant for it...

          If you count the "poufs".
          Russian troops captured Berlin three times:
          1. October 9, 1760 during the Seven Years' War (1756-1763).
          2. March 4, 1813 during the Napoleonic wars (1812-1814).
          3. May 2, 1945 at the final stage of the Great Patriotic War (1941-1945).
          Our army was in Paris twice:
          1. March 30, 1814 during the sixth coalition.
          2. July 10, 1815. After "100 days of Napoleon". Here it should be noted that Alexander I arrived in the enemy capital as part of a limited contingent of Life Guards and Cossack escorts. Paris had already been captured by the Prussians.
          Well, how can you not miss the proud Swedes.
          In 1187, the city of Sigtuna (the old capital of the Svei) was burned by the Karelians, and the Archbishop of Uppsala was killed.
          The Russians burned the suburbs of Stockholm in 1719 during the Northern War.
          Well, somewhere like that.
        4. +6
          5 June 2024 13: 29
          Apparently we don’t suffer from sclerosis?
          Then why did they remember about the Battle of Poltava, but somehow they don’t like to remember the fact that Sweden was a defending party in the Northern War. Sweden did not start the Northern War, it began with the fact that Sweden itself was attacked by a number of neighboring states that were afraid of its strengthening. Was the northern war necessary - more likely yes than no. Was Sweden guilty of this war - rather no than yes. Russia, Denmark and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth were afraid of such a sharp jump in the strength and strengthening of Sweden, and because of this they were afraid of losing influence and access in the Baltic Sea. If Sweden had not been defeated then, they would not have received free access to the Baltic Sea. But was Sweden itself somehow to blame for us? No. So if you like to rely on history, then quote it in full.
    2. -5
      5 June 2024 04: 53
      Well, they're going out of their way to take revenge on us.
      Exactly the same complex as Poland, which “thanks” to us almost became an empire wink
    3. + 10
      5 June 2024 05: 16
      Quote: Lev_Russia
      The Swedes cannot forgive us for their defeat at Poltava...

      In our country there are a great many leavened patriots who are publicly proud of the victories of Peter I and Stalin, without making any special efforts to achieve their own. Not local, but global, so that enemies all over the world shut their filthy throats.
  3. -9
    5 June 2024 04: 28
    I hope our SU-57s will shoot them down quickly enough before they have time to mess with us.
    1. +4
      5 June 2024 11: 42
      Taking down any awacs is a serious task and requires very careful planning, but the headquarters do not shine in this... which is annoying.
      Back in school, we were calculating a battle against a large awac - there is a detachment of forces for a regiment, but only one and very fast one does the job... good luck with the planning
      1. -4
        5 June 2024 14: 36
        What is so complicated that a regiment is needed? Will this plane fire and maneuver furiously?
        1. +1
          5 June 2024 15: 35
          In the old nata, the doctrine of using awacs allowed him to attract any available forces to protect himself, except for his cover link. Well, besides, by definition, he works at a distance from the forehead. You need to get to him and stretch out all the forces covering him so that one quick one can do the job...
          The capabilities of awacs from Saab/Ericsson are more modest than the E-3, but planning will have to tinker. Well, now the capabilities of videoconferencing are also different, even the smart one has changed
          1. -2
            5 June 2024 16: 44
            I can hardly imagine what kind of protective forces there can help against several P-37Ms. Substitute your cover fighters? I suspect your plans assume that the enemy has parity in the air, and not that all his planes are huddled to the ground, where AWACS does not work properly
            1. +1
              5 June 2024 17: 04
              If there are idiots sitting there, then of course they will allow us to reach the firing range, if I’m not mistaken, today the record was somewhere around two and a half hundred kilometers. Only now the situation has demonstrated that the characters sitting there are not stupid, and besides, they situational awareness constantly fed by 'probable partners'.
              I hope someone should have already thought about how to reset awacs, the saab340 itself is not a difficult goal.
              1. +1
                5 June 2024 17: 19
                Quote from alexoff
                I can hardly imagine what kind of protective forces can help...
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                use whatever forces are available to protect yourself.
                Any forces: building a patrol route, which will be determined by the task; ground radar and air defense forces; and, to our great regret, a very competent use of ASU with recharge from any of our sources and others.
                All this can be “cured”; you just need to give free rein to planning. In any case, I’m betting on VKS, specifically the 31st: either fighters or Ishki with Kashkas
                1. +1
                  5 June 2024 17: 45
                  All this can be “cured”, you just need to give free rein to planning
                  in my opinion, it should be resolved on the 5th-7th flight of the plane with adequate leadership. But if it turns out that the scout is surrounded by red lines, then incredible difficulties can arise, just like with bridges. Moreover, as with bridges, confidence in the impossibility appears not after the fortieth attempt, but even before the first
                  1. 0
                    5 June 2024 18: 07
                    There will be a command and powers - they will be reset. For me, it should be decided upon arrival at territory 404, preferably while still in the air... so that opponents don’t have different interpretations. The basics: information and smart planning.
                    We won’t talk about bridges; they have their own difficulties and, unfortunately, they arise from a lack of understanding of the overall plan.
            2. 0
              5 June 2024 17: 21
              To do this, most likely, you will need to enter the enemy’s air defense zone, and no matter how much they criticize the Ukrainian air defense, it is effective enough to prevent this from happening.
              1. +1
                5 June 2024 17: 35
                Quote from realing
                most likely, you will need to enter the enemy air defense zone
                That is why I repeat: it is not an easy task that requires very careful planning, but everything can be solved. The VKS has aircraft that can solve the problem and pose a serious headache for the enemy. Air defense still exists and works - here the effectiveness of the headquarters is confusing, although the question is how they were assigned tasks
                1. +1
                  6 June 2024 00: 52
                  Quote: Pete Mitchell
                  Air defense still exists and works - here the effectiveness of the headquarters is confusing, although the question is how they were assigned tasks

                  Therefore, air defense should no longer exist and work. Moreover, this air defense operates on airplanes from ambushes.
                  1. 0
                    6 June 2024 01: 01
                    Quote: Comet
                    therefore, air defense should no longer exist and work. Moreover, this air defense operates on airplanes from ambushes.
                    and enjoys a highly decentralized control system. Hence the questions for the Ministry of Defense and planning...
                    1. +1
                      6 June 2024 01: 04
                      Quote: Pete Mitchell
                      and enjoys a highly decentralized control system. Hence the questions for the Ministry of Defense and planning...

                      So these questions are interesting. They are not specified.
                      1. 0
                        6 June 2024 01: 09
                        As Russian scientists write in the popular press: Nettle is a very decentralized system that is powered by any external sources, from its own visual observation posts to uploading information from 'probable partners' - as long as the connection is not destroyed, it will work.
                        These questions will have to be asked, because what happens next is like a fairy tale...
                      2. +1
                        6 June 2024 01: 15
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        As Russian scientists write in the popular press: Nettle is a very decentralized system that is powered from any external sources

                        This is not decentralization, this is sensor integration. Any air defense system does this. Decentralization is the absence of a decision-making hierarchy. In air defense, this is ineffective for solving air defense problems.
                      3. 0
                        6 June 2024 01: 17
                        It seems to me that you are more familiar with modern terminology than I am, but you definitely get the meaning.
                        As the same scientists wrote: to stop Nettle, it is not enough to demolish some servers, it is necessary to demolish the connection, which is very troublesome.
                      4. 0
                        6 June 2024 01: 31
                        Quote: Comet
                        In air defense, this is ineffective for solving air defense problems.
                        Are you planning? In the clip? Just running through…. Good luck
              2. 0
                5 June 2024 17: 42
                There is an opinion that Ukrainian air defense is fragmented. And they say that a fighter can fly at low altitude and see AWACS, but it’s not very good
                1. +1
                  5 June 2024 17: 55
                  Quote from alexoff
                  There is an opinion that Ukrainian air defense is fragmented
                  This is probably why air supremacy is not ensured. Also because the available resources of the 404s are combined into a decentralized network - it is even impossible to demolish it - all communications must be demolished. There are a lot of questions for the staff, a lot for mo.
                  Quote from alexoff
                  And they say that a fighter can fly at low altitude and see AWACS, but it’s not very good
                  Sorry, this is not serious: anyone spreading such opinions needs to read a little about the theory and at least think about why they raise the radar higher. You also need to think about little things like fuel consumption by a fighter at low altitudes and, accordingly, a reduction in radius. In addition, maximum launch ranges are ensured not at all at low altitudes
                2. 0
                  3 July 2024 21: 59
                  Just one of the strengths of AFAR is the detection of radio-contrast targets such as KR low above the ground and water, helicopters, etc., as well as in general universal capabilities to see both on the ground, not high above the ground, and in the air.
                  1. 0
                    3 July 2024 23: 31
                    I know. Radar on an airplane works much the same as on the ground, but from a height there is less interference. But this works well when the plane is protected by red lines. He will see a fighter launching at him, well, that’s all.
                  2. 0
                    3 July 2024 23: 59
                    Quote: karabas-barabas
                    Just one of the strengths of AFAR is the detection of radio-contrast targets such as KR low above the ground and water, helicopters, etc., as well as in general universal capabilities to see both on the ground, not high above the ground, and in the air.

                    All this has nothing to do with AFAR. I mean, it has nothing to do with the type of antenna.
      2. +1
        6 June 2024 00: 40
        Quote: Pete Mitchell
        Back in school, we were calculating the battle against a large awac - there is a detachment of forces for a regiment, but only one and very fast one does the job...

        What means of destruction?
        1. 0
          6 June 2024 00: 49
          Quote: Comet
          What means of destruction?
          IA, get it in the duty area. In principle, there is no other way to get it, it will not fit the forehead.
          1. +1
            6 June 2024 00: 53
            Quote: Pete Mitchell
            Quote: Comet
            What means of destruction?
            IA, get it in the duty area. In principle, there is no other way to get it, it will not fit the forehead.

            What missiles?
            1. 0
              6 June 2024 00: 57
              Dear, it was a long time ago: we had at our disposal the 23rd with 60/24 and the 31st as a drum. The conditions and technology are different here, but the meaning is probably the same.
              1. +1
                6 June 2024 01: 02
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                Dear, it was a long time ago: we had at our disposal the 23rd with 60/24 and the 31st as a drum. There are different conditions and technology,

                That's what we're talking about. The means of combating AWACS have become very advanced.
                Quote: Pete Mitchell
                but the meaning is probably the same.

                The changes are quite serious. Not only R-37M, but also 40N6, 9M82MD.
                1. 0
                  6 June 2024 01: 05
                  Quote: Comet
                  The changes are quite serious. Not only R-37M, but also 40N6, 9M82MD.
                  Therefore, I don’t think that Argus will be allowed to leave the confines of Westernism: they will throw all possibilities at him using his weak points. Good luck planning
                  1. +1
                    6 June 2024 01: 11
                    Quote: Pete Mitchell
                    Therefore, I don’t think that Argus will be released outside of Westernism

                    I have the same opinion. The goal is to increase the effectiveness of air defense against the Kyrgyz Republic.
                    1. -1
                      6 June 2024 01: 14
                      The Argus is not a bad machine, but releasing it against a decent opponent is a waste of time, it will be nullified anyway. Might work
                      Quote: Comet
                      increase the effectiveness of air defense against the Kyrgyz Republic.
                      well, mopeds, and then only Westerners.
                      1. +1
                        6 June 2024 01: 19
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Argus is a good machine

                        Peculiar...
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        well, and mopeds,

                        And here it is unknown. A moped is a low-speed thing, and it is not easy to spot against the background of the earth.
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        and then only Westerners

                        Agree
                      2. 0
                        6 June 2024 01: 25
                        Quote: Comet
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Argus is a good machine
                        Peculiar...
                        No, but how can you trick the public into making money on the sly? feel we helped there, and ourselves...At the same time, we hung out with country bands, singing along with those watching.
                        Quote: Comet
                        A moped is a slow-moving thing and is not easy to spot against the background of the ground
                        Do you think that rotating the screw will not create the necessary conditions for detection? The screw is of course modest in size, but...
                      3. +1
                        7 June 2024 01: 14
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Do you think that rotating the screw will not create the necessary conditions for detection? The screw is of course modest in size, but...

                        The smaller the angle between the antenna plane and the plane of rotation of the propeller, the smaller the Doppler from the rotation of the propeller. And yet, the Doppler from the propeller is “smeared” due to different linear velocities of different points of the blade.
  4. 0
    5 June 2024 04: 30
    In addition, the AWACS aircraft themselves on the ground may come under attack. They, by definition, cannot remain in the air all the time, and returning to the airfield may involve known risks.

    However, the S 100D pair will be exposed to the greatest danger during combat duty in the air. The Russian army simply will not let them work in peace. Airborne radar systems will face the problem of suppression by electronic warfare, and the aircraft themselves will become the object of a real hunt. For this purpose, fighters or ground-based anti-aircraft systems will be used. All of them have a chance to hit a valuable target.

    1. Like the aircraft of the VTA of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Argus can be based outside of Ukraine.
    2. Argus will fly under the cover of their air defense systems, without entering the radius of destruction of our air defense systems. Purely theoretically, it is possible to send a number of fighters to shoot down Argus...
    1. -3
      5 June 2024 10: 40
      Quote: Wildcat
      Purely theoretically, it is possible to send a number of fighters to shoot down Argus..

      I just remembered our long-range air-to-air missile KS-172, developed as an "AWACS killer" at ranges up to 400 km. Is it even in service or is it still being tested?
  5. +3
    5 June 2024 04: 32
    There should be no problems with training pilots for 404: Saab 340 pilots, of which there were up to 10 in Ukraine, are being mobilized for Argus. All that remains is to train a radar operator.
    And these planes will also create confusion in the air, both Ukrainian civilians and the possible use of Argus that appear in the Polish Air Force. In short, a very unpleasant plane, not only as an AWACS aircraft but also as a creator of various provocations.
    1. +7
      5 June 2024 04: 50
      These planes will also create confusion in the air like civilian Ukrainian ones

      Civil aircraft do not fly over Ukraine.
    2. 0
      5 June 2024 11: 38
      Quote: andr327
      The 404 should have no problems with training pilots: Argus will mobilize Saab 340 pilots, of which there were up to 10 in Ukraine.
      Do you have information that these ten are in the country 404? Civilians immediately dumped: some to the Latvian smartlynx, some to the Irish Ryanair - no one will go to die
      1. 0
        5 June 2024 13: 35
        10 aircraft does not mean there are 10 pilots, there are much more of them.
  6. 0
    5 June 2024 04: 46
    Western leaders and their media are literally broadcasting from all irons and toilets that "Russia will immediately attack their white, fluffy, tolerant and democratic countries after its victory over Ukraine." But at the same time they are actually disarming their own armies, taking away their planes, tanks, guns, shells, etc. and sending them to 404.
    How are they going to defend themselves against “aggressive Russia”?
    Or maybe they still understand that Russia *(at all) does not need their countries and it is not going to attack them?
    *© S. Lavrov
    1. +1
      5 June 2024 09: 33
      actually disarming their own armies, taking planes, tanks, guns, and shells from them and sending them to 404


      That's right, they're disarming. But they are disarming not by disposing of the old planes, tanks, etc. that they so need (is it really necessary?), but by using them in battle against a potential enemy, inflicting damage corresponding to these weapons, but on foreign territory and with the wrong hands. Come on, is it bad?..
  7. +1
    5 June 2024 04: 51
    Such equipment must remain in the air for a considerable time, therefore, the Ukrainian Air Force must also have a tanker aircraft. Does Ukraine have such aircraft?
    1. -4
      5 June 2024 09: 18
      The Stratotanker flies over the eastern region of Poland almost every day. It fuels F-22s, Eurofighters and F-16s. If he is able to refuel a Polish Saab, then a Ukrainian one can fly to Polish territory and refuel. What do you see as the problem here?
      1. +1
        6 June 2024 00: 37
        Quote: Little Bear
        The Stratotanker flies over the eastern region of Poland almost every day. ...If he is able to refuel a Polish Saab

        SAAB is not capable of refueling in the air.
    2. +3
      5 June 2024 09: 42
      the plane is a turboprop, which I had not paid attention to before. That is, quite economical. We were surprised by the size - it seemed comparable to the F-16 - which gives a choice of airfields. Swedish weapons (any), which have broken through the lobbying wall of American manufacturers, seem to me a priori to be very good and well thought out. It seems to me that everyone now flies on a specific theater of operations without in-flight refueling. And this plane will work the same way.

      I consider its most dangerous function to be the automatic weapon guidance system of the F-16, when they fly with their own radars turned off, and the guidance is based on the illumination from the AWACS ("iU" - that's exactly what we're talking about). The gunner plane itself, at the same time, remains far outside the coverage area of ​​the air defense and our aviation. Unpleasant.
      1. -1
        5 June 2024 10: 03
        The Swedes make fantastic weapons. They can also improve other countries' weapons. The Swedish modification of the Leopard 2 is considered the best in the world, like the CV90; Western experts agree that this is the best infantry fighting vehicle delivered to Ukraine. Swedish aviation is also in a class of its own.
      2. 0
        6 June 2024 00: 17
        Quote: Proctologist
        I consider its most dangerous function to be the automatic weapon guidance system of the F-16, when they fly with their own radars turned off, and the guidance is based on the illumination from the AWACS ("iU" - that's exactly what we're talking about).

        There is no such thing. AWACS provides guidance to the interceptor to the point where its radar is switched on. The interceptor uses weapons based on data from its radar.
        Quote: Proctologist
        The gunner plane itself, at the same time, remains far outside the coverage area of ​​the air defense and our aviation.

        At what distance is the AWACS aircraft?
        1. 0
          3 July 2024 22: 10
          Quote: Comet
          There's no such thing

          What exactly happened over Yugoslavia then? A battle of Dutch F-16s with AWACS support against, in my opinion, 9 and Mig-29 Serbs? The Dutch were able to shoot down all the MiGs in that battle without losing a single F-16, precisely because they flew with the radars turned off and received target designation from AWACS.
          1. 0
            3 July 2024 23: 54
            Quote: karabas-barabas
            What exactly happened over Yugoslavia then? A battle of Dutch F-16s with AWACS support against, in my opinion, 9 and Mig-29 Serbs?

            The proctologist wrote:
            Quote: Proctologist
            ...and the guidance is based on the illumination from the AWACS ("iU" - that's exactly what it's about)

            I answered him:
            Quote: Comet
            There's no such thing
    3. +2
      6 June 2024 00: 25
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      Such equipment must remain in the air for a considerable time, therefore, the Ukrainian Air Force must also have a tanker aircraft.

      There is no in-flight refueling on this aircraft.
  8. -3
    5 June 2024 05: 11
    Swedish AWACS S 100D Argus aircraft for Ukraine: priority target

    And all this for the Nazi uncle, and they even have a radar of a different shape (they say it uses less fuel), and we are still going to develop the A-100 for ourselves... Absurd and shameful!!!
    1. 0
      5 June 2024 15: 38
      Quote: ROSS 42
      And all this for the Nazi uncle, and they even have a radar of a different shape (they say it uses less fuel), and we are still going to develop the A-100 for ourselves... Absurd and shameful!!!

      So if you need it quickly, it is better to modernize what already exists. smile
      Because an AWACS with a fixed antenna will require a new antenna itself and the entire radar, and possibly a new carrier. And even if the carrier is old, this will not cancel the dance around the EMC of the new complex with a base board.
  9. +1
    5 June 2024 05: 16
    Ehh... We would like at least two dozen aircraft of this type.
    1. -3
      5 June 2024 06: 37
      We have aircraft of this type. A-50 and A-50U. They are unlikely to tell you the exact number, but I believe there could be a couple dozen. Another thing is that these aircraft are extremely vulnerable, since they glow on radars like a Christmas tree. This means that their use without powerful air and air defense cover is associated with an increased risk of losing such an expensive aircraft. Alas, Russia has already lost one of these.
      Based on this, it is unlikely that Mazepi will use Swedish AWACS in its airspace. They will hang over the Polish-Mazepi border so that our Aerospace Forces cannot reach them. But in this case, they will not be as useful as if they were hanging at least over Zhitomir.
      1. +3
        5 June 2024 15: 33
        Quote: Victor Masyuk
        We have aircraft of this type. A-50 and A-50U.

        You are wrong. We don't have aircraft of this type. A-50(U), this is an analogue of the E-3 Sentry.
        The Swede is more consistent with Hockey. We had developments on this topic - the Yak-44, An-71, but they "failed" request.
      2. +1
        5 June 2024 16: 12
        If I am not mistaken, at least 2 A 50U aircraft were lost.
  10. BAI
    -3
    5 June 2024 06: 07
    Who said they would fly?
    This is an alibi for the USA and the Britons.
    Now no one can say that the West is aiming F16s or long-range weapons at Russia. After all, now the ho.lys can supposedly receive intelligence data themselves and carry out target designation. After all, all information in a combat mission is entered automatically.
    Those. the planes will be stationary, and the United States will aim US weapons at targets in Russia, with the words - we have nothing to do with it, the Ukrainians are doing everything themselves without us
  11. -3
    5 June 2024 10: 28
    A strange Swedish "gift" for the Ukrainian Reich Air Force, if we take into account that its use, without solid support, its work, from the "local" Air Force, air defense forces - will most likely be ineffective... And work from the territory of Poland, Romania will sharply reduce the indicators of the effective "output" of working information from the "depths" of this complex... Well, and about a "worthy" target for our Aerospace Forces, Air Defense-Protection-Electronic Warfare, there is simply no point in talking... Although...
    1. -1
      5 June 2024 14: 02
      Or maybe everything is simple: he will hang out in the area of ​​the western border and try to track “mopeds” and KRs, covering up Westernism?
      It seems to me that if a threat arises, they will try to ensure his escape from airspace 404... Ensuring the survival of awacs is a non-trivial task, as is ensuring its destruction. It won't be easy, but I'm betting on VKS
  12. 0
    5 June 2024 13: 47
    Quote: Victor Masyuk
    We have aircraft of this type. A-50 and A-50U.

    Sit down, Vitya. "Two". !
    1. 0
      5 June 2024 16: 18
      The A50 type aircraft and the A50U type aircraft are two different types of aircraft, although they are based on the same IL 76.
      1. 0
        3 July 2024 22: 19
        Modernization of A-50 to A-50U for more than $500. Is it possible for the Russian Federation today to create the A-50U under such sanctions, given the need for very high-tech, rare equipment from a couple of Western countries? I'm afraid not. But they could try to create more modest machines.
        1. 0
          4 July 2024 00: 05
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          with such sanctions, given the need for very high-tech, rare equipment from a couple of Western countries

          What kind of equipment is this?
  13. 0
    5 June 2024 14: 48
    I think that the Argus will be based at airfields in Eastern Poland, which will greatly reduce the flight duration, but will almost completely protect the aircraft.
    1. 0
      5 June 2024 17: 07
      Quote: Ivan Seversky
      I think that the Argus will be based at airfields in Eastern Poland, which...
      Do you think the psheks will simply squeeze out two more Argus for themselves? Why, everything is in Polish, fraternal….
    2. 0
      3 July 2024 22: 24
      Quote: Ivan Seversky
      I think that Argus will be based at airfields in Eastern Poland

      It’s unlikely that the Russian Federation has only recently learned to track important military equipment 150 km from the LBS, since there are no other eyes other than drones. So the base airfields can be 250 km + And so that the “zradniks” do not burn the rare pilots, they will simply drive them to different airfields. The plane is quite compact and can land and take off on anyone, and the Ukrainians will definitely find several dozen such places.
  14. +2
    5 June 2024 21: 29
    So we had a chance to read about AWACS aircraft in the famous cycle “little, late, useless.”

    It seems that the time has come to seriously think: what’s next?
  15. 0
    3 July 2024 23: 56
    Quote: Comet
    Quote: karabas-barabas
    What exactly happened over Yugoslavia then? A battle of Dutch F-16s with AWACS support against, in my opinion, 9 and Mig-29 Serbs?

    The proctologist wrote:
    Quote: Proctologist
    ...and the guidance is based on the illumination from the AWACS ("iU" - that's exactly what it's about)

    I answered him:
    Quote: Comet
    There's no such thing...
  16. 0
    28 August 2024 09: 08
    They will be based in Brasov-Ghimbav, Romania. Take off from there and return there. Perhaps they will not even enter Ukrainian airspace at all. The power of their radar is enough to operate from the territory of Romania.