"Vadim Roshchin" from the General Staff of the Red Army

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"Vadim Roshchin" from the General Staff of the Red Army


About the hero and prototype


The person discussed in this article, on the one hand, is unknown to a wide circle of readers, on the other hand, his literary prototype, on the contrary, is very familiar to them; in any case, born in the USSR and raised on Soviet literature and cinema.



We are talking about the captain of the Imperial Army and Lieutenant General of the Red Army Evgeniy Aleksandrovich Shilovsky, who became the prototype for Vadim Roshchin in the trilogy “Walking in Torment” by Alexei Tolstoy and was brilliantly played by Mikhail Nozhkin. The choice of the writer cannot be called accidental - after his second marriage, Shilovsky was the “red count’s” son-in-law, and they talked for a long time about the events of the Civil War.

In general, the topic of Evgeniy Alexandrovich’s family is itself non-trivial. For his first wife, Elena Sergeevna, later became the wife of Mikhail Bulgakov and the prototype of Margarita. However, the vicissitudes of the general’s difficult and in some ways even tragic personal life go beyond the scope of the given topic.

Officers at a crossroads


So, Evgeniy Alexandrovich was born on December 3, 1889 in the Tambov region, in the village of Savinki. A nobleman, moreover, there was a legend in the family about the princely title of her distant ancestors. Apparently, this predetermined the choice of profession: service to the Fatherland. Although, since the time of the notorious Manifesto of Peter III, confirmed by the Charter of Catherine II, the nobility had the right not to serve, gradually degenerating into the characters brilliantly shown in “Dead Souls” by Nikolai Vasilyevich Gogol.

However, the Shilovsky family did not fit into such a picture, because from time immemorial it had carried out military service. Thus, the ancestors of the future general served as guards to the great princes of Ryazan. And their estate, according to a number of researchers, at one time gave its name to the city of Shilovo - now the regional center of the Ryazan region.

The father of the future general, who worked for many years as an indispensable member of the Lebedyansk Zemstvo Administration for land management, was known throughout the province as a gardener. An important touch to his portrait: when Alexander Ivanovich was arrested after the revolution, peasants came to ask for him - a rare case. They let me go. He died in 1930, which destroys the story that all landowners were thrown into prison, deported abroad or sent to the Gulag. Mom's name was Poliksena Stepanovna. She lived until 1941.

The family was large and poor; in any case, Evgeniy studied in the 2nd Cadet Corps at public expense. Actually, the building opened in 1849 by order of Nicholas I and bearing his name was intended as an educational institution for poor nobles. After the corps, Shilovsky entered the Konstantinovsky Artillery School, graduating with the first category.

Then the young officer found himself at a crossroads: service in the ranks or following the military-scientific path with subsequent teaching in military educational institutions? Apparently - yes, in fact, this is evidenced by Evgeniy's future life - his soul was in the latter. And three years after college, he entered the Nikolaev Academy of the General Staff. Quite a natural choice actually.

What was the Nicholas Academy like on the eve of the tragic events that buried the Russian Empire?

In a nutshell, then, as Andrei Ganin, a leading expert on the military elite of the Red Army during the Civil War, as well as the 1920-1930s, writes:

“The years of study were a serious test for the students of the academy, the course of which was quite difficult, and the program was overloaded. However, in our opinion, this was quite justified. After all, the lives and outcome of hostilities depended on the skills acquired by the students.”

But the First World War made adjustments to Shilovsky’s plans. With the rank of second lieutenant of the Life Guards of the 1st Artillery Brigade, which was part of the 1st Guards Division, he goes to the front. It is noteworthy that Lieutenant General Vladimir Apollonovich Olokhov, who headed the division, voluntarily joined the Red Army in 1918, and his subordinate brigade commander, Major General, in 1914, Leopold Friedrichovich Brinken, fought on the side of the Whites. And such examples are a dime a dozen.

Evgeniy took direct part in the battles. Again, looking ahead a little, I note that he did not leave any memories - there was simply no time left for them in his busy schedule. But the officer kept a detailed diary, on the pages of which he criticized his superiors for excessive losses and sometimes illiterate conduct of operations. Georgievskoye testifies to the same way Shilovsky fought. weapon, which he was awarded for the battles near Lomza. During them, by the way, Lieutenant Mikhail Tukhachevsky was captured.

One of the future leaders of the Russian counter-revolution and, in the even more distant future, the fascist henchman, Major General Pyotr Krasnov, spoke extremely succinctly and accurately about the ferocity of those battles:

“There were terrible battles near Lomza. The guards infantry burned in them, like straw burned in armfuls thrown into a fire.”

The above quote confirms the validity of Shilovsky’s criticism of the command’s actions.

In the valleys and in the hills


Next, Yevgeny Alexandrovich was expected to serve in staff positions: respectively, chief officer for assignments of the 36th Army Corps and senior adjutant of the 43rd Infantry Division. In 1915, he returned to the academy again: apparently, in the highest military circles they realized the obvious shortage of trained commanders from the army commander and above, because the training of tactical officers was at a high level in the imperial army. Apparently they wanted to promote them.

Evgeniy Aleksandrovich graduated from the Academy in 1917. After the February Revolution, in the conditions of the collapse of the army, Shilovsky served as an assistant to the senior adjutant of the quartermaster general of the 11th Army headquarters, Lieutenant General Mikhail Promtov - later a participant in the White movement. After October - demobilization, and then a choice - not only a career, but also a destiny; the choice that faced tens of thousands of Russian officers. None of them had any idea that he would bring someone to the alien streets of Paris and other foreign cities, force them, at best, to work as taxi drivers in order to feed their family.

Well, some, for completely different reasons, will remain in their homeland, sharing with it the joys, the troubles, and the glory of the crushers of fascism. It is precisely this category of Russian officers that Shilovsky belongs to: in August 1918, in his own words, he voluntarily joined the Red Army - at a difficult time, when the Soviet Republic had more military defeats than victories. And many, both inside Russia and outside it, were not confident in the Bolsheviks’ ability to win the Civil War. Yes, they would not have won if it were not for military experts like Evgeniy Aleksandrovich.

Apparently, Shilovsky gained some fame in military circles, in any case, on the recommendation of former Colonel Nikolai Sollogub, Evgeniy was transferred to Moscow, from there his path lay to Ukraine, where he held the position of Chief of the Field Headquarters of the People's Commissariat for Military Affairs of Ukraine. With whom he just had to fight: with the Petliurites, and with various gangs that flooded the steppes, and with Denikin’s followers.

But more importantly: Shilovsky was involved in the construction of a regular Red Army in Ukraine. At the same time, his opponents, in fact, did not go beyond the scope of volunteerism, which one of the best military leaders of the Armed Forces of Southern Russia, Major General Boris Shteifon, later wrote with bitterness.

After the disbandment of the Field Headquarters, Evgeniy Alexandrovich was recalled to Moscow and in October 1919 was appointed to the headquarters of the 16th Army of the Western Front, which the above-mentioned Sollogub soon headed. However, not everything went smoothly in Shilovsky’s relationship with the new government: in August 1919 he was arrested by the Cheka. Charge: connection with the All-Russian National Center. There was such an underground organization. One of its leaders was the famous figure of the Cadet Party Nikolai Astrov, an associate of Lieutenant General Anton Denikin, who gravitated towards liberalism, and a member of the Special Conference created in the Armed Forces of the South of Russia, which he headed.

It is difficult to say to what extent Shilovsky shared bourgeois-liberal views during that period - and whether he shared them at all. I think the answer here is rather negative. For in the future he showed himself to be a completely devoted man to military science, who would hardly waste precious time on supporting and studying relevant ideas, moreover, in the eyes of a considerable part of the officers, they were associated with the unpopular Provisional Government among them. In a word, I believe that the Cheka arrested Shilovsky either on a flimsy pretext, or made a mistake, or was simply playing it safe.

We must also understand: in August 1919, Denikin’s armies attacked Moscow and achieved serious successes, so the issue of identifying and eliminating the counter-revolutionary underground was number one on the Cheka’s agenda. Perhaps, even after liberation, the Bolsheviks did not fully trust Evgeniy Alexandrovich: note that he was assigned to the Western Front, which was relatively calm at that time, while it was in October that a counter battle unfolded between the red Southern Front, on the one hand, and the Volunteer , and the Don white armies - on the other. And the scales shook. Accordingly, the presence of a talented General Staff officer there seems more appropriate.

But there is one more point - however, I do not presume to say that it is connected with Evgeniy’s arrest. His younger brother Mikhail lived in Lebedyanskoye, which was in the zone of action of the 4th Don Corps of Lieutenant General Konstantin Mamontov, who carried out his famous raid in August 1919. And Mikhail was either taken away by force by the Cossacks, or left with them voluntarily - now it is impossible to answer this question with one hundred percent accuracy. Nothing is known about his further fate.

Who knows: maybe Mikhail’s disappearance during the Mamontov raid gave the security officers a reason to suspect his brother, the Red commander, of sympathizing with the Whites, and they feared his possible secret connection with the Denikinites. And, alas, cases of military experts going over to the enemy’s side were not isolated.

Thinkers and Strategists


But, sympathizing with Mikhail, one can only rejoice for Evgeniy, whose life and military talent, without exaggeration, were necessary for the then young Red Army. After his release, if he remained under suspicion, it was not for long - and, as they say, his rapid ascent up the career ladder began: in April he took command of the 16th Army, which had become his home, and it is worth noting that despite his significant experience staff work, Shilovsky, who had never even commanded a battalion before, managed to cope, gaining experience in battles with Polish troops and gangs of Stanislav Bulak-Bulakhovich.

After the disbandment of the 16th Army, in 1922, Evgeniy Aleksandrovich was mainly involved in teaching, combining it with military-scientific activities; Fortunately, there was enough material and food for thought - in just seven years, Russia experienced three wars: the First World War, the Civil War and the Polish War.

Evgeniy Aleksandrovich writes a work devoted to the operations of the 16th Army against the Polish troops, and in the 1930s he lectures on operational art at the academy. It seems to me that his analysis of military operations specifically with the regular Polish army is important. For the study of the Civil War - where the front line was of a very conditional nature, where the role of cavalry, which was losing its importance in the XNUMXth century, was high, where the passion for partisanship took place - could form the researcher’s not entirely correct ideas about the nature of future military operations.

In general, it was a busy time in the military environment. It was at the turn of the 1920-1930s that Konstantin Kalinovsky and Vladimir Triandafilov were working on the creation of armored forces, thinking a lot about their role in modern warfare; One of the creators of the theory of deep operation, Georgy Isserson, writes his work “The Evolution of Operational Art.” He also taught at the academy. And later, one of the famous General Staff of the Great Patriotic War, Army General Sergei Shtemenko, recalled:

“Shilovsky, Isserson, and Medikov enjoyed special love from listeners. Listening to their lectures, brilliant in form and distinguished by deep ideological and scientific content, was a true pleasure for us.”

And if Shilovsky taught at the academy with Isserson, then with Triandafilov he served in the same Moscow Military District, being its chief of staff from 1928 to 1931, and Vladimir Kiriakovich - a corps commander.

The modernization of the Red Army and the development of modern types of weapons have put on the agenda the issue of improving operational methods of warfare and new forms of interaction on the battlefield between armored forces and rifle formations. A response to the problem posed was Shilovsky’s work “Operation”, published literally on the eve of World War II - in 1938.

The merits of Evgeniy Alexandrovich in the matter of military development were appreciated in 1940: he was awarded the military rank of lieutenant general. In August 1941, Shilovsky headed the Academy of the General Staff and in October received the task: to quickly prepare and carry out the evacuation of the academy to Ufa, rebuilding the curriculum aimed at accelerating the graduation of commanders. Moreover, graduates had to understand what the new forms of war demonstrated by the Wehrmacht were.

Shilovsky works hard to generalize this experience and repeatedly goes to the front. It is not surprising that it was from his pen that the first work in the USSR devoted to the battle of Moscow came out. One should not think that his work was exclusively of an office nature. The geography of the fronts he visited is impressive: Western, Bryansk, Central, Baltic.

After the war, Evgeniy Aleksandrovich continued to teach and work on generalizing the experience of the Great Patriotic War. He died while head of the department at the Academy of the General Staff, in his office on May 27, 1952.

And in conclusion: if compatriots associate the mention of the Red Army primarily with people like Shilovsky, and not Tukhachevsky, then this will become visible evidence of the correct accents in our historical memory.
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  1. +15
    4 June 2024 04: 36
    It's a small world, very interesting article.
    And in conclusion: if compatriots associate the mention of the Red Army primarily with people like Shilovsky, and not Tukhachevsky, then this will become visible evidence of the correct emphasis in our historical memory.

    I recommend the article "ROYAL ADMIRALS - FOR SOVIET POWER" by my late friend
    https://cont.ws/@bya965/736983
    1. +8
      4 June 2024 04: 46
      Thank you. I will definitely read the article you recommend.
      1. +8
        4 June 2024 13: 10
        Thanks for the article. Clear, understandable, intelligible, interesting. Against the background of how on this site they lick Wrangel, Denikin and the white movement in general, an article about the winners is very appropriate.
  2. +8
    4 June 2024 04: 58
    Well, some, for completely different reasons, will remain in their homeland, sharing with it the joys, troubles, and glory of the crushers of fascism
    The choice was difficult, but the right one!
  3. +7
    4 June 2024 05: 05
    And their estate, according to a number of researchers, at one time gave its name to the city of Shilovo - now the regional center of the Ryazan region.

    He also emphasized that the emphasis in his last name falls on the first syllable, Shilovsky. This emphasized the Russian origin of the surname, as opposed to Polish.
    1. 0
      4 June 2024 07: 06
      the emphasis in his surname falls on the first syllable, Shilovsky. This emphasized the Russian origin of the surname
      ШИLovsky is more of an English pronunciation. Russian pronunciation will probably be ShilovskOH
      1. +1
        4 June 2024 09: 46
        More likely ShilOvsky.
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        Shilovsky is more of an English pronunciation. Russian pronunciation will probably be Shilovskaya
  4. +3
    4 June 2024 05: 09
    I read the article with interest. In my understanding, the Polish campaign with the march of Tukhachevsky’s army on Warsaw and the subsequent “miracle on the Vistula” is an integral part of the Civil War. But if you follow the logic, both Soviet Russia and Poland were already independent countries by 2020 and it is impossible to consider this as a war between citizens of one state, so I am ready to agree with the author of the article.
  5. +3
    4 June 2024 05: 21
    “There were terrible battles near Lomza. The guards infantry burned in them, like straw burned in armfuls thrown into a fire.”

    This is a quote from the memoirs of Colonel of the Life Guards of the Finnish Regiment Dmitry Khodnev.
  6. +9
    4 June 2024 05: 30
    Once again the author has knocked the ground out from under the feet of those who are screaming that the Red RIA officers were hanged, shot, drowned and destroyed as best they could in tens of thousands.
    1. +3
      4 June 2024 07: 08
      Once again the author has pulled the rug out from under the feet of those who are screaming that the Red RIA officers were hanged, shot, drowned
      Only the unfinished comrade screams about this. Stalin's liberal rampage
    2. 0
      4 June 2024 08: 06
      Wait, the author hasn’t finished writing the series about Wrangel yet, I think he’ll touch on this topic there.. smile
    3. +4
      4 June 2024 08: 36
      Now the Olgovich will come rushing in and declare, “You’ll be all right.” he followed the principle - he sold his livestock and left with his family for the city. This means that all these crystal bakers claim that the Soviet peasantry were new serfs.
      1. +5
        4 June 2024 11: 18
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        He refused to join the collective farm. So what? Was he shot, exiled to Siberia? He followed the principle - sold his livestock and left with his family for the city.

        My mother’s family left the Vologda region in exactly the same way: first they sent one of their sons to Leningrad, and once he settled in (fortunately there was a terrible shortage of personnel in the city), he took over the rest of his relatives. We made it before the complete depopulation of collective farms.
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        This means that all these bakers claim that the Soviet peasantry were the new serfs.

        Not everything is so simple.
        On the one hand, yes, there is a well-known problem with passports.
        On the other hand, there are actually working social elevators, the main one of which was the army. You served, during your service you acquired a profession - that’s it, after demobilization you can get a job at a factory or even in the city. Plus, in the 30s the industrial workforce was so bad that those willing to work and capable of learning were hired, regardless of their documents. Which were corrected later.
        1. 0
          4 June 2024 13: 20
          Quote: Alexey RA
          You served, during your service you acquired a profession - that’s it, after demobilization you can get a job at a factory or even in the city.

          Can you find any significant difference from RI? see father A.I. Denikin.
      2. +1
        4 June 2024 13: 23
        My maternal grandfather did the same thing and left Siberia for Khabarovsk to live with his wife’s relatives.
      3. +3
        4 June 2024 13: 53
        By the way, my paternal great-grandfather, an Altai-Telengit, was indeed shot in 1929 for refusing to join the collective farm and for anti-Soviet agitation.
        But this is not a basis for some kind of “revenge” or anything like that.
        1. +1
          4 June 2024 14: 44
          Well, anti-Soviet agitation is serious. No, it is clear that everything was decided locally, and there were enough different ones, from fools to henchmen. But there were also adequate ones in the party apparatus and the NKVD.
  7. +5
    4 June 2024 05: 39
    “Walking through torment”...the first version is a particularly cool film...it’s even strange how the censorship missed such phrases from the whites...like Fire!!!...for comrades.
    For the first time then I saw the White Guards as the same people as communists... convinced of their rightness and with the same human passions and vices.
    Truly, the people of Russia were divided along political and class lines...and this dividing line is still visible in our people.
    1. +10
      4 June 2024 08: 04
      "Walking in agony" ...first version
      The first version .. is a three-part film filmed by director Roshal in the 50s, the second version, 13 episodes, filmed in 1977 by Ordynsky, the third filmed in 2017, I don’t know who watched the trailer, I had enough..
  8. +14
    4 June 2024 05: 39
    Shilovsky, already a lieutenant general, applied to the party in October 41, during the most difficult days of the defense of Moscow. This says a lot about this person. And his son, like many of the top leadership, fought at the front
    .
    1. 0
      4 June 2024 15: 57
      By today's standards, he died young - at 63 years old. But over the years there have been so many things, probably including injuries.
  9. +18
    4 June 2024 06: 03
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    "Walking through torment" ...the first version is a particularly cool film

    I prefer the 1977 series, Yu. Solomin, M. Nozhkin, I. Alferova S. Penkin, and Lev Durov with Colonel Tetkin’s monologue is something. By the way, in the anti-Soviet series of 2017, filmed by order of the Ministry of Culture, this mognologist is physically absent and in general there from A.N. Tolstoy has nothing.
    1. +3
      4 June 2024 07: 49
      Yes, the dialogue has not lost its significance today.

      Except that in the novel the regiment died not “from the fire of its own artillery,” but “on a wire.”

      The film, I agree, is excellent. Just like the novel.
    2. +6
      4 June 2024 09: 05
      Quote: Konnick
      anti-Soviet series of 2017, filmed by order of the Ministry of Culture, this monologue is physically absent and in general there from A.N. Tolstoy has nothing.

      I completely agree with you, the liberals took it off.
  10. +3
    4 June 2024 06: 30
    Thank you. It was interesting to read, unknown pages about unknown heroes.
  11. +7
    4 June 2024 06: 35
    Yes, they would not have won if it were not for military experts like Evgeniy Aleksandrovich.
    Triandafilov, came from a wartime warrant officer background, rose to the rank of staff captain before graduating from the teachers' seminary, graduated from the General Staff Academy in 1919, Isserson, from a doctor's family, like Triandafilov, graduated from the warrant officer school in wartime. And there were plenty of such people, wartime officers, in the Red Army, many went there at the behest of their hearts, such an army was difficult to defeat..
  12. -12
    4 June 2024 06: 57
    someone will be brought to the streets of Paris and other foreign cities that are alien to them, forced, in order to feed their family, to work as a taxi driver at best.

    Well, some, for completely different reasons, will remain in their homeland, sharing with it both joys and troublesand the glory of the destroyers of fascism.


    They received a spoonful of troubles, just like their families. By the beginning of the Second World War, from hundreds of thousands of tsarist officers
    in the ranks of the army there was only several hundred former officers
    S. Volkov "The tragedy of the Russian officers"

    The bulk of the officers remaining in the USSR were mercilessly thrown into camps and destroyed (see "The tragedy of the Russian officers").

    Those who left, for the most part, saved and provided for their families and their decent lives.
    1. +2
      4 June 2024 07: 13
      Those who left, for the most part, saved and provided for their families and their decent lives.

      We decided to move beyond the cordon
      To enjoy life, sorry.
      To drink wine with a flighty coquette,
      And with a blonde or a brunette - it’s all the same.
      Se trebien, by the way, it’s better than getting old
      To die in the arms of a beauty
      Fortunately, we need to be closer and love
      Not in Russia, but in Paris,
      Ce la Vie!
    2. +6
      4 June 2024 07: 28
      And naturally, you are not able to prove with figures and facts that hundreds of thousands of officers of the tsarist army who transferred to the Red Army were destroyed by the communists. But Volkov is an anti-Soviet, and it is useless to expect truth and objectivity from anti-Soviet people.
      1. -10
        4 June 2024 10: 15
        Quote: tatra
        , but anti-advisers are useless wait for the truth and objectivity

        you will not deny, I hope, that in 1937-38 tens/hundreds of thousands of fellow citizens were shot?
        Give me objective and truthful numbers about this for the Soviets in 1937-38 in the newspapers Pravda, Izvestia, etc., speeches at congresses, on the radio, etc.

        The same objective and truthful numbers FOR advisors in the same Sources in 1930-1940 give information about those who died of hunger, about exiled children and their peasant parents, camp inmates, and the same officers.

        And there will be no more questions!

        A? What? There are no such?! How so? What, the vile people didn’t come out with their snout to know them?
        1. +4
          4 June 2024 10: 21
          Ha, that’s what needed to be proven. The enemy of the USSR could not provide evidence for his words, he cowardly “turned the dice” and began to demand from me that I was proving something to him, citing facts and figures.
          Enemies of the USSR under their
          freedom of speech "since their Perestroika, they have been throwing around statements and accusations that they are unable to prove and substantiate. They completely lack a sense of responsibility for their words.
          1. -11
            4 June 2024 10: 36
            Quote: tatra
            Ha, that’s what needed to be proven. The enemy of the USSR could not provide evidence for his words, he cowardly “turned the dice” and began to demand from me that I was proving something to him, citing facts and figures.
            Enemies of the USSR under their
            freedom of speech "since their Perestroika they are throwing around statements and accusations that they are unable to prove and substantiate. They completely lack a sense of responsibility for their words

            Give me OFFICIAL objective and truthful figures Advisers on the number of people executed in 1937-38 in the newspapers Pravda, Izvestia etc., speeches at congresses, on the radio, etc.

            The same objective and truthful figures from the advisors in the same sources in 1930-1940, give for those who died of hunger, for exiled children and their peasant parents, camp inmates, and the same officers.

            And there will be no more questions!

            But you and your leaders simply don’t have them! At all. Zero. Emptiness.

            And Volkov and others are forced to find out bit by bit the TRUTH from archives and research, which your shy leaders carefully hid from the vile people, who did not come out for them to know what they were doing to them.

            In his work 1320 links to primary sources, and for you and your leaders, except for “Ha!” And there is nothing.

            disgrace........
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. -2
            5 June 2024 07: 31
            Quote: gsev
            Under Stalin, Lenin, Russia, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Russia developed and grew in population.

            Before them, Russia is the leader in terms of development rates in the world. Under Nikolai Aleksanrovich, Russia’s population grew by ONE AND A TIMESfor 60 million people. Your ignoramuses never dreamed of this.

            In 1990, already a THIRD of Russian regions lived in conditions of EXTINCTION Your ignoramuses built the Russian Cross
            Quote: gsev
            By 1945, the Bolsheviks returned almost all the lands that Kerensky and Nicholas 2 had incompetently squandered.

            Under Nicholas, hundreds of thousands of kilometers of territory were annexed to Russia; under Stalin, only Kaliningrad and half of Sakhalin
            1. 0
              5 June 2024 13: 07
              Half of Sakhalin is what Nicholas II lost. And Stalin annexed lands that were NEVER part of Ri.
              1. -1
                8 June 2024 12: 07
                Quote: Sahar Medovich
                Half of Sakhalin is what Nicholas II lost. And Stalin annexed lands that were NEVER part of Ri

                lie. Koenigberg was in Russia.

                And the efforts of the Stalins to increase not Russia, but all sorts of Ukraines are not interesting.
                1. 0
                  8 June 2024 14: 02
                  Koenigsberg was. But there were no others. Is it true. All Ukraine - then there was Russia.
                  1. -1
                    8 June 2024 14: 07
                    Quote: Sahar Medovich
                    Is it true. All Ukraine - then there was Russia.

                    A document about this is on the table! Do you deny...USSR?
                    1. 0
                      8 June 2024 17: 35
                      Precisely the USSR. I confirm, not deny.
                      1. -1
                        8 June 2024 19: 24
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        Is it true. All Ukraine - then there was Russia
                        The USSR is NOT Russia - read its constitution. NOT ONE of your leaders said this, and could not say this
                      2. 0
                        8 June 2024 20: 33
                        It is Russia and nothing else. Regardless of who (didn't) say what.
                      3. -1
                        8 June 2024 20: 53
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        It is Russia and nothing else. Regardless of who (didn't) say what.

                        You are Nobody to reject the constitutions of the USSR and sovereign union republic states
                      4. 0
                        9 June 2024 06: 20
                        You are also Nobody and your name is Nobody, but this does not make the USSR cease to be Russia.
                      5. -1
                        9 June 2024 06: 36
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        but this does not make the USSR cease to be Russia.

                        You are Nobody to reject the constitutions of the USSR and sovereign union republic states
                      6. 0
                        9 June 2024 12: 33
                        You are Nobody to reject historical truth.
                      7. -1
                        9 June 2024 12: 35
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        You are Nobody to reject historical truth

                        DOCUMENTS are the truth, not chatter Nobody: see CONSTITUTION OF THE USSR
                      8. 0
                        9 June 2024 15: 59
                        I saw the Constitution, Nobody. There is not a word there that the USSR is not Russia, you are a liar.
                      9. -1
                        10 June 2024 11: 17
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        I saw the Constitution, Nobody. There is not a word there that the USSR is not Russia,

                        There's EVERYTHING about it, liar:
                        Government structure.

                        Article 13. Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is a union state formed on the basis of the voluntary unification of equal Soviet Socialist Republics:

                        Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic,

                        Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Belarusian Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Turkmen Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Tajik Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Kazakh Soviet Socialist Republic,

                        Kirghiz Soviet Socialist Republic
                        .
                        Where Russia is only PART of the USSR..

                        Bring from there your statement that the USSR is Russia, a liar
                      10. 0
                        10 June 2024 19: 26
                        And provide evidence from there that the USSR was on Earth, and prove that it was not on Mars, you liar! Tsarist Russia included territories that were states within a state, but for some reason you consider it Russia, you liar! Double standards are an attractive thing, but not reliable, you're a liar! All one and a half dozen SSRs that made up a single union were Russia and nothing else, ignoramus!
                      11. -1
                        11 June 2024 06: 20
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        All fifteen Soviet Socialist Republics, constituting a single union, were Russia[/b] and nothing else, ignoramus!

                        lol
                        USSR-NOT RUSSIA, ignoramus:
                        Article 68. [b]The Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic is a sovereign Soviet socialist state. In order to successfully build a communist society, strengthen economic and political unity, ensure the security and defense of the country, the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic as a result of the free self-determination of its people, on the basis of voluntariness and equality together with the Soviet Socialist Republics: Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, Belarusian Soviet Socialist RepublicRepublic, Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic, Kazakh Soviet Socialist Republic, Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic, Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic, Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic, Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic, Latvian Soviet Socialist Republic, Kyrgyz Soviet Socialist Republic, Tajik Soviet Socialist Republic istic Republic, Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic, Turkmen Soviet Socialist Republic, Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic - merged into the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
                      12. 0
                        11 June 2024 11: 59
                        Russia, Russia, ignorant. The USSR could not be anything else in its essence.
                      13. -1
                        11 June 2024 12: 58
                        Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
                        Russia, Russia, ignorant. The USSR could not be anything else in its essence.

                        The essence is set out in the CONSTITUTION - this NOT Russia, but vice versa.

                        Not sugary delusional visions, but present the DOCUMENT.
                      14. 0
                        11 June 2024 20: 06
                        Here you don’t need to look at the documents (let alone draw conclusions from them based on your own fantasies), but see the essence. And think with your head. Yes
                      15. -1
                        12 June 2024 06: 56
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        Here you don’t need to look at the documents (let alone draw conclusions from them based on your own fantasies), but see the essence. And think with your head

                        The essence and conclusions are recorded by DOCUMENTS-USSR-NOT Russia. This is their ESSENCE.

                        The sick fantasies of individuals are their personal problem.
                      16. 0
                        12 June 2024 07: 09
                        “The essence and conclusions are recorded by DOCUMENTS” - and a person’s identity, apparently, is determined by a passport? Another passport with a different name - a different identity? Indeed, sick fantasies.
                      17. -1
                        12 June 2024 09: 45
                        Quote: Sahar Medovich
                        “The essence and conclusions are recorded by DOCUMENTS” - and the personality of a person

                        but personality has nothing to do with it..

                        Is there an advice document that the USSR is Russia? No?
                        To freedom, yes

                        tired. and
            2. 0
              5 June 2024 17: 14
              Quote: Olgovich
              Your ignoramuses never dreamed of this.

              What percentage of the Russian population in 1914 was infected with the then incurable syphilis and tuberculosis? Workers in cities often did not have the opportunity to start a family and the working population died out. There was a well-known dispute between professional statisticians and D. Mendeleev about the prospects for the population of Russia in the 20th century. Professionals pointed out that demographic problems await Russia in the 20th century.
              1. -2
                8 June 2024 12: 12
                Quote: gsev
                What percentage of the Russian population in 1914 was infected with the then incurable syphilis and tuberculosis?

                just remember that in WAR 1914, the mortality rate in Russia was much LESS than in PEACEFUL 1932,33,36,37 and then people did not eat people, as happened in PEACEFUL 1922,32,33,46,47 in the USSR
                Quote: gsev
                There was a well-known dispute between professional statisticians and D. Mendeleev about the prospects for the population of Russia in the 20th century. Professionals pointed out that demographic problems await Russia in the 20th century.

                his forecast was completely justified for the United States.
                And the demographic problem was the Bolsheviks: their wars, the abortion revolution, famines, etc., etc.
    3. +8
      4 June 2024 09: 10
      Quote: Olgovich
      Those who left, for the most part, saved and provided for their families and their decent lives.

      I don’t know, but my paternal grandfather and his brother were also officers in the Imperial Army, but no one repressed them. During the Second World War, they did not take part; they were over 60 years old at that time, but their sons did.
      1. +5
        4 June 2024 09: 33
        A number of Russian historians claim that in S.V. Volkov’s book “The Tragedy of Russian Officers” the author reduced the question of the fate of former officers exclusively to repressions against them, while a number of his ideologically biased statements were not supported by a proper reference base, which led to a simplification of the description of what happened processes and even distortion of many facts.
        1. -1
          5 June 2024 13: 05
          Describing the fate of former officers in the USSR, Volkov constantly uses the word “last”.
        2. -2
          5 June 2024 17: 18
          Quote: kor1vet1974
          Volkov's "The Tragedy of Russian Officers" the author reduced the question of the fate of former officers exclusively to repressions against them

          Volkov wrote specifically about repressions. Political officers, history and social studies teachers at school, and teachers of the history of the CPSU, Marxist-Leninist philosophy, and scientific communism informed their fellow citizens about how wonderful everything was in the USSR. Volkov reported something new and polemicized against public and widespread views.
  13. +3
    4 June 2024 07: 33
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    Shilovsky is more of an English pronunciation. Russian pronunciation will probably be Shilovskaya

    No, exactly Shilovo, after the ancestral town of Shilovo.
    1. +2
      4 June 2024 07: 41
      No, exactly Shilovo, after the ancestral town of Shilovo.
      Accepted!
  14. +2
    4 June 2024 07: 45
    Thanks to the Author, interesting article.

    I read the novel several times, a real encyclopedia of its time, like War and Peace or Quiet Don.

    However, there is a significant difference between the prototype and the hero of the novel - Roshchin joined the Good Army and for some time sincerely and effectively killed the Bolsheviks - to the point of complete moral exhaustion. Only later did he end up on the side of the Reds - rather by accident, in contrast to Telegin’s choice.
    1. +2
      4 June 2024 07: 56
      rather, by chance, in contrast to Telegin’s choice.
      Randomness, the result of regularity.
  15. +11
    4 June 2024 07: 56
    Quote: Olgovich
    They received a spoonful of troubles, just like their families. By the beginning of the Second World War, from hundreds of thousands of tsarist officers
    only a few hundred former officers remained in the ranks of the army
    S. Volkov "The tragedy of the Russian officers"

    The bulk of the officers remaining in the USSR were mercilessly thrown into camps and destroyed (see "The tragedy of the Russian officers").

    Yes, there were repressions, of course not the majority, but they affected mainly those former officers who were in close contact with Trotsky, were former Socialist Revolutionaries like Yuri Sablin, who defeated Kaledin’s Cossacks and got involved in politics, which the military should not do. And people like Karbyshev joined the party in 38, Govorov, a Kolchak member, joined in 42, and Shilovsky in 42. I don’t know about Lieutenant General Shapkin (also a former Kolchak member). On Novodevichy there are many former tsarist generals, then Soviet ones, and non-party ones, in my opinion, in the 5th section.
    And I’ll tell you about the repressions. Shilovsky lived in the same house with Uborevich and Gamarnik. Elena Sergeevna’s sister and her husband lived with them, the apartment allowed. She worked with her husband at the Moscow Art Theater and was Nemirovich-Danchenko’s secretary. Although Elena Sergeevna vividly described her acquaintance with Bulgakov in 29, in fact it happened earlier, at skit parties, which were held by the active Elena Sergeevna, who missed bohemian life when Shilovsky went on business trips, and so these parties where the ringleader Mikhail Bulgakov was there, Uborevich and Gamarnik were regulars, a couple of floors down. They had fun, of course, they were not German spies, but their cheerful lifestyle contributed to their fate.
    You would also feel sorry for the “victims” of post-war repressions. Shilovsky was present as a witness during the search and then became indignant when he was clearly confronted with the post-war general’s looting.
    They arrested a neighbor, a very large military man, Shilovsky was invited as a witness, he returned amazed: they opened the piano - and there was gold, jewelry...
    He repeated with disgust: how is it possible? There is an officer's honor!
    1. +2
      4 June 2024 11: 20
      Quote: Konnick
      And people like Karbyshev joined the party in 38, Govorov, a Kolchak member, joined in 42, and Shilovsky in 42.

      You will also remember about the Armenian nationalist Dashnak Bagramyan. smile
      1. -2
        4 June 2024 12: 18
        Do you remember about the Armenian nationalist Dashnak Bagramyan?

        Didn’t he serve under Miller?
      2. +1
        4 June 2024 23: 35
        Quote: Alexey RA
        You will also remember about the Armenian nationalist Dashnak Bagramyan.

        Bagramyan fought under the leadership of the Dashnaks so that the Turkish genocide would not completely destroy his people. For this he was not reproached either under Stalin or under Lenin. What is the point of reproaching the famous military commander of the Great Patriotic War for participating in the war for the existence of his people? When the Red Army came to Transcaucasia, Bagramyan broke with the Dashnaks.
  16. +8
    4 June 2024 08: 18
    Those who left, for the most part, saved and provided for their families and their decent lives.

    What can be called a decent life? Prosperity or Dignity? From Olgovich’s point of view, prosperity.
    And remember the words of the former tsarist general Bonch-Bruevich -
    “The judgment of history will fall not on us, who remained in Russia and honestly fulfilled our duty, but on those who prevented this, forgetting the interests of their Motherland and groveling before foreigners, obvious enemies of Russia in its past and future.”
    Prophetic words, especially now
    1. -15
      4 June 2024 08: 55
      Quote: Konnick
      And remember the words of the former tsarist general Bonch-Bruevich -
      “The judgment of history will fall not on us, who remained in Russia and honestly fulfilled our duty, but on those who prevented this, forgetting the interests of their Motherland and groveling before foreigners, obvious enemies of Russia in its past and future.”

      The judgment of history fell precisely on the traitors of the Bruevichs, who handed over Russian Novorossiya, etc. to an unknown person, proving the rightness of those who then fought against them for a United and Indivisible Russia.

      He left the hut
      I went to fight
      So that the Russian lands
      Give to the outskirts
      1. +1
        4 June 2024 11: 23
        Quote: Olgovich
        The judgment of history fell precisely on the traitors of the Bruevichs, who handed over Russian Novorossiya, etc. to an unknown person, proving the rightness of those who then fought against them for a United and Indivisible Russia.

        ...My friction with Wrangel continued, it came to the point of reproach on my part that, it seems, we are beginning to dance to the tune of the French, and we raised an uprising against Soviet power, as against the power installed by the Germans. Why are the Germans worse than the French?
        © prototype of Bulgakov’s General Khludov
        1. -5
          4 June 2024 11: 34
          Quote: Alexey RA
          ..My friction with Wrangel continued, things came to a head

          And?
          The Whites handed over Novorossiya, etc. to who knows? And who is the traitor? Straight answer please. Except "nobody", yes.

          By the way, you never responded to the refutation of your statements about the devastation of railway transport in Russia during WWII.
          1. BAI
            +4
            4 June 2024 13: 05
            The Whites handed over Novorossiya, etc. to who knows? And who is the traitor? Straight answer please. Except "nobody", yes.

            Wrangel. It's clearly written there. General Slashchev stated everything very clearly
            1. -6
              4 June 2024 14: 19
              Bolsheviks - it’s clearly written there in your so-called the constitutions of the allied sovereign states of the USSR and other USSRs - everything is stated very clearly.
              .
              Few? Look at Soviet maps of the USSR.
          2. 0
            5 June 2024 11: 46
            Quote: Olgovich
            By the way, you never responded to the refutation of your statements about the devastation of railway transport in Russia during WWII.

            What is there to refute? With the payroll of the same locomotives, everything was really fine. The problem was that acting There were only 50% of steam locomotives on the list.
            The number of operating steam locomotives continued to fall. In 1916 there were no more than 16000. In February-March 1917. Only 10 healthy steam locomotives remained in service out of those listed in the state in 215. 1916. Transport was on the verge of collapse.
            The mobilization plan (No. 19) provided for the need for 19 freight and 856 passenger locomotives, and this is available on all roads consisted 16 freight and 234 passenger locomotives.
            1. -1
              8 June 2024 12: 26
              Quote: Alexey RA
              What is there to refute? With the payroll of the same locomotives, everything was really fine. The problem was that the operating steam locomotives from the payroll there were only 50%.
              The problem is that you are broadcasting lies::
              According to the “Representation of the Railway Administration to the Provisional Government on the unsatisfactory operation of railway transport due to a lack of fuel and rolling stock,” at the beginning of 1917, there were 3 steam locomotives under repair or awaiting repair, or 16,8% of their total. There were 16 working steam locomotives compared to 15 at the beginning of 563. . The share of sick cars was 4,5%.

              K Everything is known by comparison. In the peaceful year of 1913 in Russia there was 17% of sick locomotives and 5% of sick carriages.
          3. 0
            5 June 2024 17: 22
            Quote: Olgovich
            The Whites handed over Novorossiya, etc. to who knows?

            Krasnov, for example, served in the Cossack SS division.
            1. -1
              8 June 2024 12: 28
              The Whites betrayed Novorossiya and other outlying areas, I ask again?
              1. 0
                8 June 2024 14: 44
                Quote: Olgovich
                The Whites betrayed Novorossiya and other outlying areas, I ask again?

                During World War 2, the Whites created a Cossack SS division and worked for the Germans as punitive executioners against Soviet partisans. Do you know of at least one sabotage against the Wehrmacht carried out by an organized White émigré organization. All enemies of Russia from the EMRO and RONA to the NTS and RDK position themselves as anti-communists.
  17. 0
    4 June 2024 08: 29
    Definitely an excellent article and such articles are very useful, as they show Russian officers from all sides. The shortcomings include lamentations and regrets over the fate of Russian officers abroad. For research of that time, this is, as they said in the navy, a gaff. Moreover, officers abroad in Paris created an excellent taxi service, which caused discontent among French taxi drivers that the government was forced to fire all Russians. They represented themselves worthily in the wars of South America.
    If the author refers to Andrei Ganin, then he should know that there was no mass voluntary entry of Russian officers into the Red Army. If there were, they were general officers and not all of them. For to become an officer coming from a simple class was the dream of many.
    If we talk about regret, then let’s talk about the fate of Russian officers in their homeland. Those who did not want to fight with their people either on the side of the whites or on the side of the reds were subsequently subject to registration and the corresponding consequences. And these were the majority. At the direction of Lenin, the institution of hostage-taking also operated, when the families of Russian officers were taken hostage and forced to serve in the Red Army. Well, hunger... You have to live somehow, feed your family.
    And finally, when officers in the Red Army began to push *Red heroes...* away from posts in the army, the *Spring* case arose.
    When you look at the heroes of Walking Through Torment or the first episodes of State Border, the thought arises of what fate awaits them in the future. Maybe like in the book, and not in the movie *Officers*...
    And the article is great! I can, for those who are seriously interested in the Russian officer corps, find
    *Together with Karbyshev. Memoirs of a Russian officer*, author Dogadin, Russian officer, one of the builders of the Brest Fortress. I found his memoirs in the Russian State Archive, then posted them several times. The life of a Russian officer is described very well there.
    And one more thing... Comments addressed to me like * the d...k * are not worth posting. I don't pay attention to them, just like your cons.
    1. +7
      4 June 2024 10: 08
      I’m not speaking on my own behalf, but on behalf of my ancestors, all from the 19th century.
      No matter how the white officers settled abroad (and there were also ordinary men involved in the White Cause), the main thing in their fate is that they ceased to be Russians, no matter who they thought they were.
      They became emigrants, French, Australians, Argentines, Germans and others. Russia continued to live without them, and they lived without Russia. And their fate is indifferent to me if they did not join the ranks of Russia’s enemies, like the Krasnov father and son. Or like Denikin, who proposed to strike the USSR with nuclear weapons. These are enemies. And as the people of the USSR = Russia decided: The enemy will be defeated, victory will be ours.
      What happened in 1991 is not at all a confirmation of the rightness of whites, but is a classic example of the collapse of an orthodox state that was trying to realize a communist utopia. The example of China provides an answer to the question of how Russia should have been developed.
      1. 0
        4 June 2024 11: 18
        This is where you are wrong. Firstly, there is no need to compare the USSR and the Russian Empire. These are essentially different concepts. Each has its own pros and cons.
        Secondly. Compare how many Russian people came to the Russian Corps and Soviet people to Vlasov’s army. The numbers will surprise you.
        Or compare how many Knights of St. George came to the side of the Germans in WWII and how many Heroes of the Soviet Union in WWII.
        Third. Who counted how many Russian emigrants fought against the Nazis? We have not considered this issue at all. You know that former White emigrants and their children served as pilots, doctors, and signalmen in the famous Normandy-Niemen squadron. And they were not persecuted here.
        White emigrants never forgot their Motherland. I was in Bizerte. In the Russian Church of Sailors, who decorated it with their own hands. I even took a video. It's on the Internet. I visited the grave of Anastasia Shirinskaya-Manstein, bought her book there * Bizerta. The last stop*, which, thanks to our diplomats and Black Sea sailors, was published in Russian. Military sailors, when visiting Bizerte, always come to the Temple and Museum.
        Some white emigrants did not accept foreign citizenship at all until their death, like Bunin, for example.
        The mentality was different and it was kicked out for 70 years. Previously, the reference book for every Soviet sailor was Overhaul and Sea Soul. They quietly removed the sailors' vests and replaced them with Ov's white Lenin ones. And they buried the sea soul of Russian sailors. Who reads these books now?
        *We fought for Russia, for the commune - they.
        We are buried next to a pity in a stranger's land
        Under the Thorn Fence for the Ice campaign.
        We leave as we lived: march at a trot, checkers out!
        Only we are for Russia, and who are they?*
        Kirill Rivel
        1. +1
          4 June 2024 12: 42
          The one who takes the position: “I am for Russia, but against the USSR!” he automatically joins the ranks of Russia’s enemies. It so happened that the Russian Empire changed its name, flag, anthem and (very relatively) social system. And the people live in this reality, where they rejoice, where they spit, but they function in this society. Yes, power was usurped by some bloody utopians (and no other antithesis to the bloody monarchy of Nicholas II could appear), but they learn from mistakes and are gradually abandoning many of their original plans. Instead of a World Revolution, they have a state with clear borders. Instead of War Communism - NEP. Instead of some kind of Republican anarchy - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Commodity-money relations and all the attributes of the empire are smoothly returning, a new community of people is emerging that feels like citizens of this country (which previously did not exist in principle, since the Tsar had subjects, not citizens).
          And how thorny this path was, a lot has been written, although the achievements were impressive.
          And those who left or were kicked out by fate - they were forced to live there and then, as it happened. In their souls they carried a longing for what was lost, but they did not feel any understanding of what was happening there in Russia or sympathy for successes or failures. Maybe sometimes gloating over our failures was born in small souls.
          And nostalgia - well, in the first generation everything went well, and then - assimilation.
          So it turned out that those who left and got a decent job as a result were no different from other waves of our emigration.
          1. +1
            4 June 2024 14: 02
            Another stereotype about the *bloody monarchy of Nicholas II*. Don't disappoint me! Russia in the era of Nicholas II was much more democratic than today.
            Putin is much closer to Nicholas than to Alexander the Third. A photograph of the Ipatiev House would not be out of place on his desk.
            1. +2
              4 June 2024 14: 25
              Alexander!
              Well, I have no desire to charm you. I just see it this way, life was long. And I met different people in it, but not once did I hear from them that if only the whites had won, everything would have worked out on its own. Well, the alliance of renegade communists and the last of the White Guards won in 1991, and so the Superpower ceased to exist.
              This is all, the revolution and the Civil War and the subsequent years and the counter-revolution of 1991, and the current Northern Military District - all this is the inextricable history of my country, and for my grandchildren it is the same. And you, unfortunately, have a mosaic, here there is splendor, and here there is a stinking ravine.
              And in order to completely prove you, I will express my opinion about the tragedy of the Royal Family.
              Lenin carried out primitive justice by destroying the family of his blood enemy. He could take advantage of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk to send the Royal Family to Germany to visit his relatives. These would not inspire our monarchist movement. But the thirst for revenge outweighed all humanistic considerations. And the enthusiasm of the masses allowed this massacre to be carried out.
              I have a completely different attitude towards Colonel N.A. Romanov, who appointed himself Supreme Commander-in-Chief.
              On March 02 (15), this colonel shamefully deserted from his post, abandoning to the mercy of fate an army fighting and a country on the brink of an abyss.
              As a military man and statesman, he certainly deserves the death penalty for such a crime.
              1. -2
                4 June 2024 17: 40
                The difference between our judgments is that I try to look at the era as a whole, with its ups and downs. Most people here consider this era selectively, based on individual events. As a result, the integrity of events is lost. Just as an example. Here today someone wrote that these were the high-born generals who came to serve in the Red Army. That's all they came. No one asks how they came, why they came, what influenced their decision, what events prompted them to make their judgments, etc., etc. There is no integrity of the whole picture. And why? Yes, because if you start to delve into the essence of the issue, then the entire world built by an individual around himself may collapse. And this is what most people are afraid of.
                1. 0
                  5 June 2024 06: 35
                  I agree.
                  I don’t want to seem impolite, but most people view the historical process through the eyes of situational winners. And this leads to bias. On the other hand, having accepted one of the sides, we cannot abandon the imposed stereotype. Your comment about Franco, who was actually considered by the MOST of the population of Spain, as a national hero and savior, is indicative. Our majority has internalized a negative attitude towards the rebels, believing that the Republicans represent the forces of good. Meanwhile, our food commissars, Makhnovists and revolutionary tribunals look like a symbol of legality in comparison with the Spanish anarcho-syndicalists and internationalists of all stripes. In fact, it was the lack of support from the population of agrarian-industrial Spain that led the Republicans to defeat. In Italy fifteen years earlier, the same clash was resolved almost bloodlessly. Well, for us - what happened was what happened. Whites did not become a stronghold of “traditional values”, and they did not intend to be one.
                  So, remembering the second Old Testament commandment, I try not to embellish historical figures.
                  1. 0
                    5 June 2024 07: 01
                    You can invent what Franco was thinking about, but he created a memorial of reconciliation in which one wing was given to the Republicans, the other to the Francoists. Thereby emphasizing that both have the same homeland.
                    Only we are a unique people, where the Civil War has not ended and continues from generation to generation. Because we cannot understand that in the Civil War there are no right and wrong. Everyone has their own truth. On the one hand, some idiot is advocating for the demolition of the monument to Wrangel, and on the other, an entire province bears the name of the leader of an organized crime group.
            2. 0
              5 June 2024 17: 29
              Quote: Alexander Kuksin
              Putin is much closer to Nicholas than to Alexander the Third.

              In my opinion, Putin is much more democratic and liberal (in the classical good sense of this term) than, for example, Gaidar, Yavlinsky, Chubais. He won all the elections against his opponents because he did not insult his opponents. Yavlinsky and his supporters from Democratic Russia and the MDG were not forgiven for throwing around words about the red-browns.
      2. 0
        6 June 2024 21: 36
        The example of China provides an answer to the question of how Russia should have been developed.
        China saw the impotent State Emergency Committee and the results of its co-operation, so it reeled its rebuilders into tank tracks at Tiananmen and remained a great country.
  18. +3
    4 June 2024 08: 40
    Quote: S.Z.
    I read the novel several times, a real encyclopedia of its time, like War and Peace or Quiet Don.

    However, there is a significant difference between the prototype and the hero of the novel - Roshchin joined the Good Army and for some time sincerely and effectively killed the Bolsheviks - to the point of complete moral exhaustion. Only later did he end up on the side of the Reds - rather by accident, in contrast to Telegin’s choice.

    The book is excellent, reads like all the works of A.N. Tolstoy, easily, unlike his distant relative.
    Only about Shilovsky as a prototype is rather a legend; he met Marianna Tolstaya in 1935, and Roshchin already appeared in the books “Sisters” (1918-1922), “The Eighteenth Year” (1927-1928). But everything is possible, I have no doubt that Shilovsky and Tolstoy communicated closely, they lived 5 minutes walk from each other. In general, Alexey Nikolaevich Tolstoy is an underrated writer. I even learned to read from his “Pinocchio” and I think many began their adult life with this book.
    1. +3
      4 June 2024 09: 30
      "The book is excellent, it is easy to read, like all the works of A.N. Tolstoy, unlike his distant relative."

      Well, I don’t know, War and Peace, apart from the digression in French, is not a difficult read.

      “Only about Shilovsky as a prototype it’s more of a legend”

      Maybe you're right. In the first version of the novel, which Tolstoy wrote abroad, Roshchin remained white, but in Russia Tolstoy rewrote the ending.
  19. +3
    4 June 2024 08: 45
    Yes, they wouldn’t have won if it weren’t for people like that
    For example, the command of the Taman Red Army: Matveev, a sailor of the Black Sea Fleet, showed high organizational skills, managing to create a disciplined and combat-ready unit of the Red Army from disparate detachments, E.I. Kovtyukh. from poor peasants, was not able to get a proper education, from 1911 in the army, In 1916 he graduated from the school of warrant officers, during a year of service he became a staff captain, G.N. Baturin, the son of a sworn attorney, from the village of Akhtanizovskaya, graduated from the Mikhailovsky Cadet School corps, lieutenant for participation in the revolution of 1905-1907, demoted to private, exiled. During WWII, he rose to the rank of staff captain. And such military experts cannot be forgotten, like warrant officer G.I. Kotovsky.
  20. +5
    4 June 2024 08: 47
    Quote: Alexander Kuksin
    If there were, they were general officers and not all of them. For to become an officer coming from a simple class was the dream of many.

    It was just that officers from noble families joined the Red Army, such as von Taube, Prince Bagration, who commanded the cavalry school, Vasily Mikhailovich Altfater, Evgeny Andreevich Behrens, Alexander Vasilyevich Nemitz, Vladimir Alexandrovich Olderogge. All hereditary nobles.
    But the White Army was not “lucky” - Denikin is the son of a soldier, Kornilov is the son of a Cossack, Shkuro, Mamantov, Krasnov from the same series
    1. +2
      4 June 2024 13: 05
      It was just that officers from noble families joined the Red Army, such as von Taube, Prince Bagration, who commanded the cavalry school, Vasily Mikhailovich Altfater, Evgeny Andreevich Behrens, Alexander Vasilyevich Nemitz, Vladimir Alexandrovich Olderogge. All hereditary nobles.

      Before giving examples, you should at least look at the biographies. Olderogge was shot, Altvater and Bagration died in 1919 from heart attacks, although they never complained about their hearts. Only Nemitz lived to old age. Taube was killed by whites in prison in 1919 from typhus.
  21. +3
    4 June 2024 08: 57
    were not confident in the Bolsheviks' ability to win the Civil War. Yes, they wouldn’t have won if it weren’t for military experts like Evgeniy Aleksandrovich.

    How interesting from the author. It turns out that good, professional officers of the Russian Army went to the Red Army, since the Red Army won the Civil War, and bad officers of the Russian Army went to the White Army, since the White Army, even with the active support of its interventionists who supplied it with weapons and uniforms - lost.
    1. 0
      4 June 2024 11: 11
      With weapons and uniforms, the Red Army had everything much better than the White Army, because the Reds got the warehouses of the Imperial Army and most of the industry, this is much more than handouts from the Allies.
      1. +1
        5 June 2024 12: 59
        It would be more correct to say: the Reds knew how to use what they had better than the Whites. The whites had a lot of various goods from weapons to medicine, but they were either used for other purposes or simply lay there as dead weight. Then getting red.
      2. +1
        5 June 2024 17: 35
        Quote: Cartalon
        With weapons and uniforms, the Red Army had everything much better than the White Army

        It’s just that gentlemen officers could not saw and chop wood for armored trains and river flotillas. Even with imported Cardiff, the whites had difficulty maintaining pressure in the steamers' furnaces. The Reds simply went out on a cleanup day and repaired 2 locomotives. The Whites would buy steam locomotives from England for six months and along with them they would buy another carriage of women's clothes.
  22. +2
    4 June 2024 09: 30
    I would like to know: why did the author not like Tukhachevsky?
    1. UAT
      -4
      4 June 2024 10: 10
      The fact that Tukhachevsky prepared the Red Army for the terrible defeats of 41-42.
      1. +2
        4 June 2024 10: 14
        Apparently, he did this from the grave or the next world.
        1. UAT
          -2
          4 June 2024 11: 19
          One example. Tukhachevsky demanded 100 tanks, received 000. This is in a poor country with extremely limited opportunities. How many tanks did the Germans have in 20?
          1. -1
            5 June 2024 17: 39
            Quote: UAT
            received 20. This is in a poor country with extremely limited opportunities.

            If the USSR had received not 100 but 000 tanks, there would have been no German attack on the USSR. In modern Russia, more money is probably spent on relaying paving slabs and landscaping public gardens than on the production of drones.
  23. UAT
    -1
    4 June 2024 10: 08
    Thanks for the interesting and informative article. True, the very first paragraph, where the author tells us about the existence literary The prototype of the hero of his article is simply amazing. You should learn to read your texts.
  24. +2
    4 June 2024 11: 08
    Quote: Grencer81
    Once again the author has knocked the ground out from under the feet of those who are screaming that the Red RIA officers were hanged, shot, drowned and destroyed as best they could in tens of thousands.

    They hung, drowned, burned. Only not the Reds, but quite liberalistic “children of February”.
    The main reprisals against the command staff took place in the spring of 17th, when there was no sign of either the Bolsheviks or the “Reds”.
    The Red Terror generally arose in response to the White Terror. I understand that we are not in a sandbox, but the question: “who started it first” in history is very important.
    In the first post-October days, senior officers and senior officials were interrogated, they took their word that they would not spoil things and were released in peace.
    That’s when it turned out that very, very many, spitting on this word, rushed to the South, that’s when they started turning the screws.
    1. +1
      4 June 2024 12: 48
      Yes, for example,
      On October 28, the Cossacks of General Krasnov reached the nearest approaches to Petrograd. The Bolsheviks surrounded and disarmed the Cossacks. Krasnov himself, on his word of honor not to fight the Bolsheviks, was released and went to the Don, where, breaking his word, he continued the war.
  25. +3
    4 June 2024 13: 39
    Quote: Olgovich
    His work contains 1320 references to primary sources

    So most of the “sources” are white emigrants. One grandmother said...
    disgrace........
  26. +6
    4 June 2024 15: 27
    At the same time, his opponents, in fact, did not go beyond the scope of volunteerism, which one of the best military leaders of the Armed Forces of Southern Russia, Major General Boris Shteifon, later wrote with bitterness.
    Also in the future, a fascist henchman, like Krasnov
  27. +2
    4 June 2024 17: 27
    Quote from shikin
    By today's standards, he died young - at 63 years old. But over the years there has been so much, probably also injuries.

    He died of a stroke in his office. He had severe hypertension after his wife left for Bulgakov
  28. +3
    4 June 2024 17: 40
    Quote: Olgovich
    By the beginning of the Second World War, from hundreds of thousands of tsarist officers

    I just noticed it now. During WWI in 1917 there were only 115 thousand, but then it began.... 250 thousand officers were “destroyed” by Zemlyachka and Bela Kun in Crimea, according to sources from S. Volkov and, accordingly, Olgovich. Since no burials were found, according to White emigrant sources, they were drowned in barges and ended up dead. That’s where hundreds of thousands of officers came from, you need to ask Olgovich and why destroy people’s property in the form of barges?
    1. +2
      4 June 2024 18: 47
      according to sources from S. Volkov
      No, sir, the source is “Red Terror in Russia” by S.P. Melgunov. First edition in 1923, republished in 1924, and in a huge edition. Reprinted
      in the mid-70s and early 80s. Published in democratic Russia in the 90s and then republished more than once. A kind of first “GULAG Archipelago” of that time. Head of counter-revolutionary organizations: the Union of the Revival of Russia, the Tactical Center. He was arrested, went through the “bloody dungeons” of the Cheka, but at the request of the scientific intelligentsia, he was released, he was understood and forgiven. In 1922, he emigrated himself. There was not enough space on philosophical ships. Abroad , collaborated with officer emigrant organizations, a supporter of active actions against the Soviet regime. He became quiet during the war years. He was not noticed in cooperation with the Germans. But after the war he continued anti-Soviet activities.
  29. +3
    4 June 2024 18: 21
    Quote: Grencer81
    By the way, my paternal great-grandfather, an Altai-Telengit, was indeed shot in 1929 for refusing to join the collective farm and for anti-Soviet agitation.
    But this is not a basis for some kind of “revenge” or anything like that.

    It’s better not to tell such things at all, because in fact, campaigning was punishable by up to 7 years or imprisonment, and the collective farm was a voluntary matter.....

    Detractors may suspect that the article was different........ One of my acquaintances also let it slip, but it turned out that his great-grandfather was in the Basmachi detachment.

    The point here is simply the adequacy of leadership, but this is beyond the control of any authority.... laughing

    For example, the hero A. Dumas in the novel “The Count of Monte Cristo”, if he had been imprisoned not in the Chateau d’If on a political charge, but in the Gulag, would also have been considered a “victim of the bloody regime” .....
  30. 0
    4 June 2024 19: 20
    His younger brother Mikhail lived in Lebedyanskoye

    (c) “I recommend that you, darling, buy a card”)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    According to the context, in Lebedyan, now Lipetsk region.
  31. 0
    5 June 2024 08: 03
    There is such a shortage of such strategic military minds now.
  32. +1
    5 June 2024 14: 42
    Quote: parusnik
    No, sir, the source is “Red Terror in Russia” by S.P. Melgunov. First edition in 1923, republished in 1924, and in a huge edition. Reprinted
    in the mid-70s and early 80s. Published in democratic Russia in the 90s and then reprinted more than once.

    So Olgovich refers to S. Volkov, an apologist for the white movement, and he, in turn, refers to the average data from white emigrant sources. Olgovich's
    They received a spoonful of troubles, just like their families. To the beginning of the Second World War from hundreds of thousands of tsarist officers

    According to the latest data, in February 1917 there were only 115 thousand officers in the Russian army.
    And the 250 thousand officers drowned in Crimea are from the AiF, those journalists, if only they could count how many barges were needed for such a number of officers.
  33. +1
    5 June 2024 17: 35
    Quote: Alexander Kuksin
    If there were, they were general officers and not all of them. For to become an officer coming from a simple class was the dream of many.

    Kalashnikov, Kugushev, "The Third Project". Book one "Immersion".
    I recommend reading it. Exactly the first part, then the graphomaniac nonsense begins in many ways.
    The book explains in great detail how divided Russian society was on the eve of 17. Moreover, the division went along many lines at once.
    Classic examples can be found in Ignatiev, in the description of the visit of Nicholas II to Stockholm, in Yanchevetsky in the description of the reception at the Russian Embassy on the occasion of the capture of Beijing, in Melnikov in the description of the Admiral General Review of Retvizan.
    I'm talking about antagonism in the highest circles of the Empire. What can we say about the attitude of the peasantry, which constitutes the absolute majority of the population, to everyone else? Especially if you remember when the peasants stopped being flogged and when they were honored to cancel redemption payments.
  34. +1
    6 June 2024 19: 00
    I'm a foreigner, but I have Czech military schools and we also studied history, which I love. Just briefly. thank you for such a beautifully written article about Russian army officers. Where I finally read Lieutenant Tukhachevsky and the article, but the discussion also gave me new pleasant and less pleasant opinions about such a difficult time. YES, there was not only Lieutenant Tukhachevsky in the Russian army. Thanks for the article, I really liked it and it reminds me of my school days. am
  35. 0
    8 June 2024 16: 25
    But the officer kept a detailed diary, on the pages of which he criticized his superiors for excessive losses and sometimes illiterate conduct of operations.
    in the best traditions of the Tsarist, Soviet and Russian armies.....