FULLY Russian land

70
Events, which will be described further, occurred more than 85 years ago in the Far East. The Civil War died down, but in many lands of our vast Motherland, the locals did not even see the new, Soviet power. In the remote regions from Sakhalin to Chukotka, royal orders still existed and foreign businessmen ruled over Russia, plundering Russian natural resources.

It was on these days, 3 on June 1924, that the leadership of the Marine Forces in the Far East received a decree written by the RKKF command and the Main Hydrographic Office that demanded an expedition to send the Wrangel Island located on the border of the Chukchi and East Siberian seas. The occasion served news that on this piece of Russian land over the past three years, representatives of the three powers, England, Canada and the USA, raised their flags.

FULLY Russian land


Wrangel Island is located in the Arctic Ocean at the junction of the eastern and western hemispheres, divided in half by the 180 meridian. The island is separated from the northern coast of Chukotka by the Long Strait, more than one hundred and forty kilometers wide. Its area is approximately 7500 square kilometers, of which about 4500 occupy located in the central part of the mountain. There are many medium-sized rivers and lakes. The climate is harsh, corresponding to the arctic tundra. Winters are long, with frequent blizzards and winds of up to forty meters per second and above. In the open spaces of the island colossal drifts rise from the height of an eight-story house. The average January temperature is -22 degrees Celsius. The summer is cool, the temperature is about + 3 degrees. From mid-November to January, the polar night lasts on Wrangel Island. At this time here you can watch the multi-day aurora borealis. Since 2004, the island has been a UNESCO heritage site.


During the archaeological excavations carried out on Wrangel Island, it is known that the first people, Paleo-Eskimos, appeared on this land more than one and a half thousand years BC. In the 1787 year, Russian navigator Gavriil Sarychev, exploring the shores of Northeast Siberia, in the course of interviewing local residents and based on his own observations, expressed the hypothesis that an unknown hitherto unknown land could exist beyond the strait, now called the Long strait. And in the twenties of the 19 century, a Russian explorer, Ferdinand Petrovich Wrangel, also after meeting with representatives of the Chukchi tribe, sketched a rough description of the land. Her Eskimos saw from Cape Yakan on clear days, and there during the storms their fishing boats took down. Later, having precisely determined the location of the island, Wrangel made dog sledding attempts to reach it, but open water blocked the way.

In 1828, Vice-Admiral Gabriel Sarychev decided to organize a new expedition to search for a mysterious land, which, however, did not take place. And in the 1849 year, Briton Henry Kellett discovered the island of Herald, which he named so in honor of his ship. To the west of it, the navigator saw another island, which he could not reach. So Wrangel Island got its first name - "Land of Kellett." In 1867, the American whaler and at the same time researcher Thomas Long stumbled upon this island. Knowing about the research of Ferdinand Wrangel, who described the land and was trying to get on it, Long named the island in his honor.

In the 1881 year, a steam cutter "Thomas Corwin" under the command of the American Kelvin Hooper approached Wrangel Island. He knew that as a result of the sale of Alaska according to the Washington Convention in March 1867, America received a whole group of islands. He also knew that Wrangel Island was not among them. However, this did not stop the brazen Yankees, he landed on our land, proclaimed it "New Colombia" and hoisted the US flag on it. A month later, another ship sailed from America. Captain Berry, who commanded the Rogers, unlike his compatriot, had crumbs of conscience and, familiar with the works of Ferdinand Wrangel, persuaded Hooper to return the island to its original name. In subsequent years, the Americans declared the island their patrimony. The only competitors who could lay claim to him, they thought ... no, not Russians, but the British.

After several decades, the Russian government finally took a response. In the 1911 year, sailors of the Vaigach icebreaker restored justice by raising a Russian flag on the island. However, in 1914, after the start of the First World War, the Canadian brigantine Karluk, which was trapped in ice, died near the Wrangel Island. She left the port of Nome, located in Alaska, under the leadership of the enterprising anthropologist Stefanson. The team managed to get over the ice to Wrangel Island and settle there, hunting for food and exploring the area. Domestic icebreakers Vaigach and Taimyr, located nearby, twice during the summer of 1914, tried to save them, but could not break through the ice. The approached American cutter "Bear" also failed. The crew of the brigantine was removed from the island only in September by the Canadian schooner King and Wing.



In the autumn of 1916, Russia in a special message, including an application with a map, informed all the allied and neutral states that the Arctic islands located on the Asian coast of our country (including Wrangel Island) are a continuation of the Siberian continental plateau. territory. However, Wrangel Island very much liked Canada (which was part of the British Empire), namely the polar explorer Stefanson, who launched a whole campaign to develop the island at home. To support this enterprise, the anthropologist even decided to get official status, first from the Canadian, and later - the British government. However, his proposal was rejected.

This did not bother Wilhelmur Stephanson at all. Having declared his support for the authorities and seizing the favorable moment while the Civil War was going on in the Far East, he sent five colonists to the island, who in September 1921 had founded the first settlement and raised the British flag. The squad included Canadian Alan Crawford, Halle Americans, Maurer and Knight, Ada Blackjack Eskimo, serving as a servant and cook, as well as seven sled dogs. The expedition had little food, since Stefanson was counting on hunting. The first winter was successful for the colonists; they lost only one dog. However, due to the ice conditions throughout the entire summer of 1922, the vessel was unable to approach the island with a shift, and the mountain interventionists had to stay one more winter. Already in autumn, the gunet “Magnit” under the command of Lieutenant of the White Army, von Dreyer, tried to break through to Wrangel Island, but the ice judged differently. For what purpose, "Magnet" sailed to Wrangel Island is not known for certain. It is possible to curb the activities of the organization Stephanson, or to assist them, of course, for a fee. But soon the White movement in the Far East was defeated, and the crew of the Magnit went into exile. At the same time, the head of the Canadian government officially declared the island a territory of the British Empire. It is curious that on the maps of the newly published English reference books Wrangel Island was still painted in Russian colors.

The second winter was a bit harder for the colonists. The hunt failed, and the food supply ran out. At the end of January 1923, desperate polar explorers Crawford, Halle and Maurer went to the mainland for help. Nobody ever saw them again. Knight reached April and died of scurvy. Ironically, only an uneducated twenty-five-year-old Eskimo Blackjack survived. Alone on the island, she managed to reach for the arrival of the 19 rescue ship in August 1923.

But on this foreign invasion of Wrangel Island is not over. The Americans, continuing to consider the island as their territory, urgently sent a whole batch of settlers in the 1923 year in order to stake out a place, organize a colony and establish a local craft. Twelve Eskimos landed on the island (including women and two children), as well as geologist Charles Wells. Representatives of the USSR tried to solve the problem diplomatically, but they, alas, did not work. It was then that it was decided to send a special hydrographic expedition to the island, which was supposed to clear the island of any foreign contagion and simultaneously conduct a number of research projects. The well-known Russian geodesist, Boris Davydov, who was one of the best polar captains of the new time, a brilliant officer and hydrograph, was entrusted to lead this campaign.

The love of the sea was inherited by Davydov - his grandfather was an admiral, and his father was a navigator on long-range ships. As a child, Boris knew for sure that he would become a sailor. The first time he put on naval uniform at twelve years and since then has never parted with him. Having finished in May 1901 the “cradle of the Russian fleet” —the Naval Cadet Corps of Russia, Boris Davydov was awarded the rank of midshipman and Nakhimov Prize for his zeal. Having said goodbye to his family, he went to serve on the Amur mine layer. Soon the ship went on a long voyage to Port Arthur to strengthen the Pacific squadron. And then the war with the Japanese began. Boris Vladimirovich survived the siege of Port Arthur to the very end, serving as a senior navigator at first on the Amur, and then on the Pallas. Together with the captain of Amur Ivanov, he developed and implemented a daring plan for installing minefields right under the very nose of enemy ships. The result was two sunk enemy armadillos. This operation forever remained in the annals of the Russian fleet. After Port Arthur fell, Davydov, among other patriotic officers, voluntarily went into captivity in order to share the fate of his sailors. In a Japanese prison, he made a choice that determined his whole future life.

Despite the courage and bravery shown in the battles, and which were confirmed by a number of military orders, he did not want to become an admiral. He was attracted to something else, he saw how he carried out a detailed inventory of the seas and coasts, was the compiler of new maps and reliable locations .... When the war ended, the prisoners were sent home. Once in Petersburg, Davydov entered the hydrographic department of the Maritime Academy. Two years passed in hard work. Lectures, smart devices, scientific books. Then another two years were devoted to practical exercises in geodesy and astronomy in Pulkovo. Davydov successfully overcame all the difficulties and immediately upon completion was included as a member of a large Hydrographic expedition to the waters of the Arctic Ocean. In 1910, the Vaigach and Taimyr icebreakers set off on their first voyage. Together with Davydov, such famous officers as Zhokhov, Brusilov, Lavrov, Neupokoev served them. All of them went hiking on their own, all were talented and young. During the trip, a survey was carried out of the Chukchi coast, which corrected and supplemented the maps, and also collected unique materials on the biology and hydrology of the sea.

In 1913, Davydov was allowed to lead the Hydrographic Expedition to explore the Eastern Ocean. The expedition sailed the Pacific seas for nine years, exploring each island and each reef in its path. In the Far East, Boris Vladimirovich prepared a whole galaxy of excellent hydrographers, created new methods and principles for studying the sea. After the Bolsheviks came to power, Colonel Davydov, like the other officers, took off his shoulder straps. When the Far East passed into the hands of whites, many officers again put epaulets on their uniforms. But not Davydov. It is known that when he came to the Maritime Assembly, he, in silence, listened from his colleague sarcastic remarks about the absence of asterisks, and then replied: “Dear person, I am no longer a boy. And if he took off his shoulder straps, then not to put them on in a week. ”

After the final Soviet power was established in Primorye, Davydov was appointed head of the Far East Ship Safety Directorate. For his outstanding achievements in the field of geography, he was awarded the highest scientific award, a gold medal to them. Litke.


To carry out the operation Boris Vladimirovich was provided with a gunboat "Red October", which served about eighty sailors. This ship was built in 1896 year by order of Russia in Copenhagen. Initially, it was a port icebreaker called "Reliable", serving the Vladivostok commercial port. The displacement of the vessel was more than one and a half thousand tons, the length was fifty-five meters, the draft was four meters. For work in port waters, he was quite a powerful vessel, but no one knew how he would show himself in a long and dangerous journey to the north.

Boris Davydov's outstanding abilities and his vast experience were already apparent at the initial stage of the operation. In an unprecedentedly short time - just a month - the preparation for the polar expedition was completed. Before sending, the command of the Marine Forces of the Far East issued him a special prescription, which emphasized that "in the inevitable collision caused by the opposition of foreigners, the main goal of the expedition must act in accordance with the actual balance of forces on both sides, until the arrest of the crew of a foreign vessel."

20 July 1924 of the year “Red October”, on which guns were installed, left Vladivostok and six days later came to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. Here the expedition members learned that the Americans sent the light cruiser almost simultaneously with them to Wrangel Island. According to press reports from the United States, the main purpose of this voyage was to confirm their “rights” to the island. However, the propeller and the steering were damaged one by one on the ship. The hike was over, but the whaling schooner “Herman” set off from Alaska to replace the failed warship in early July. Known and its further fate. Due to the difficult ice conditions, the vessel could not reach Wrangel Island. The Americans had to be content with the October 4 raising its flag on Herald Island, which lies seventy kilometers east of the intended target.

August 3 "Red October" reached Providence Bay. Here the crew replenished their reserves of fresh water and coal. Coal was taken with a large excess, falling asleep in special enclosures, built on the upper deck. 9 August in the bay of Lawrence on board were taken three Chukchi with a pair of sled dogs. For ten days the “Red October” drifted in the ice and finally reached Cape Uering, the extreme eastern point of Wrangel Island. In the next four days, a detachment of Pacific sailors disembarked the USSR national flag, and in the bay, under an interesting name, Doubtful, found a cabin with thirteen Eskimos (one child was born in winter) under the command of American Wells. According to the memories of Davydov, temporary inhabitants were terribly frightened at the sight of our sailors. Of course, there were no documents explaining the legality of their presence.



In Rogers Bay, a bottle was found with a note written by Wells for the captain of an American vessel indicating the location of his group on the island. The detainees said that before being sent they were told that the island was wholly and completely owned by the United States, and therefore there would be no problems with the Soviets. In many bays of the island, masts stuck on which American flags were flying, and earlier, most likely, flags of the British Empire and Canada. Curious Americans did not waste time. They were illegal prey of polar bears and fur animals. During the search, they found 38 bear skins and 57 skins of white foxes, as well as a lot of papers with valuable research on the Russian island and a whole geological collection.

23 August "Red October" was removed from the anchor and, along with the arrested "colonists" and their belongings, went on a difficult and dangerous journey home. At the end of September, an icebreaker caught ice at Cape Schmidt, located in the Long Strait, but a sudden storm helped the ship to free itself. Only by October 3 the gunboat managed to get to Cape Dezhnev. Overcoming the ice led to an overrun of coal, and when the icebreaker stopped in Providence Bay, the fuel remained for only half an hour. And fresh water is completely over. The expedition returned to Vladivostok on October 29. Began the Soviet-American negotiations on the extradition of the colonists. The American consul said that the United States government does not have the means to transport the Eskimos to their homeland (this is despite the fact that they recognized them as US citizens). In the end, the Red Cross gave the necessary one and a half thousand dollars for tickets. Three of them never returned home. Charles Wells, who was the expedition leader, died of pneumonia in Vladivostok. Here one of the children died, weakened by a heavy march. Another child drowned by negligence on the way back.

In honor of this glorious campaign, which confirmed the rights of our Motherland to own Wrangel Island, the Red October gunboat was awarded the Honorary Revolutionary Red Banner. Each of the members of the expedition was awarded the badge "For an expedition to the island of Wrangel."

More recently, at an auction in the United States such a badge was sold for forty-seven thousand dollars. Unfortunately, for Boris Davydov himself this journey was the last. In the campaign, he undermined his health, and after returning he caught a bad cold. A weakened body could not overcome the ailment ...
Shortly before his death, the Academy of Sciences decided to rename Wrangel Island to Davydov Island. But Boris Vladimirovich decisively forbade doing so. One of his main principles was “never to change old names on maps”. After the death of the great hydrographic surveyor, the ship "Red October" received his name. And on November 4, the leadership of the USSR sent a special memorandum to the US authorities, drew attention to "violation of the territorial boundaries of the Union by foreigners traveling along the northern coasts of Siberia." It also contained the requirements "to continue to be guided by the provisions of international law and contractual obligations."

In 1926, the first Soviet commercial settlement Ushakovskoye appeared on Wrangel Island, named after its founder. Later a weather station was built here, which became one of the largest in the Arctic. There was also a military facility on Wrangel Island - a strategic airfield. There is also a legend about the construction of the Gulag camps on this land. However, there is no evidence of this. In the 1976 year, the Wrangel Island Reserve was created to protect and study the flora and fauna of the Arctic islands, which includes the small island of Herald. In the 1997 year, the reserve area was increased by including the water area surrounding the island, twelve nautical miles wide, which grew to twenty-four in 1999. By 2003 year, the last of the three settlements was empty. From this point on, only scientists and natural scientists from different countries come to Wrangel Island for joint research of a unique local ecosystem.

Wrangel Island is a rare complex created by nature. Here you can see polar bears, walruses, seals, polar owls, as well as a pink gull - the rarest bird in the Arctic. In total, there are about two thousand species of birds and animals. Here is the only colony of wild white geese in our country. The island is also called the Arctic Maternity Hospital.

Approximately nine thousand years ago, mammoths came to Wrangel Island, which was still part of the mainland. When the glacier melted and the sea moved in, a small group of animals was cut off. Finally starved extinct about three and a half thousand years ago.

In the 1975 year, twenty musk oxen were brought here from America by plane. They were released into the wild, and half of them soon died from climate change. But the remaining ten scattered around the island and in a few years mastered unfamiliar territory. In 1977, the first calves were born.


Today, according to some high-ranking Americans, as well as members of extremist nationalist groups (for example, the State Department Watch), the United States has rights to eight Russian-controlled islands in the Arctic (including Wrangel Island). You can find similar lines in their press: “Surprisingly, our government has so drawn the frontier that these islands of Alaska are left behind Russia. But, being an executive agreement, it can be canceled with one stroke of the President’s (Obama’s) and Secretary of State’s (Clinton )’s pen. ” Or: “Wrangel Island became ours in the 1881 year, when the landing from the US ship Thomas Corwin landed on it. And another thing: “Now is the time for the Obama administration to defend the rights of the United States to Alaska’s priceless resources. We are winners of the Cold War and must act accordingly. ”

It seems that in the future Russia will have to endure more than one attempt at attempts on its ancestral territories.

Information sources:
-http: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/
-http: //repin.info/xfiles/the_capture_by_the_Americans_of_Wrangel_Island
-http: //rus.ruvr.ru/2012_07_11/81057366/
-http: //atnews.org/news/a_vot_i_pretenzii_po_teritorii/2012-02-24-1394
-http: //www.vokrugsveta.ru/vs/article/7685/
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  1. +13
    18 February 2013 09: 16
    ] It seems that in the future Russia will have to withstand more than one attempt at assassination attempts on its original territory

    So disliked by the liberals, Joseph Vissarionych covered this question, and who will cover it now?
    You can’t forget how many lives for the development of those places laid
    1. +4
      18 February 2013 12: 55
      Quote: Denis
      .... You can’t forget .....


      Here is an excerpt from the report of our scientists:

      ,,, Thus, gas-geochemical studies of bottom sediments of the Laptev and Chukotsky established the presence of abnormal concentrations of hydrocarbon gases of various nature. The structural control of their distribution, the confinement of a significant part to the weakened fault zones, as well as the features of the qualitative composition of gases give reason to consider many anomalous contents of hydrocarbon gases as "direct" signs of oil and gas content of the shelf of the East Arctic seas. Structures are identified within the shelf that, according to geochemical data, may be of interest as the most promising for hydrocarbon searches. In the Laptev Sea - this is the Ust-Lensky graben, in the south of the Chukchi shelf - Hope Depression. Gas-geochemical studies have once again proved themselves worthy of attention by the search method, primarily in the poorly studied water areas. ,,,,

      This is the reason why the issue of Fr. Wrangel. Availability in the coastal shelf oil and gas.
      1. G02.
        +3
        18 February 2013 15: 04
        Chernomydin signed this shelf off to the Americans, and died in a foreign land. I wonder how much this traitor was slobbering for the "second" Alaska.
        1. +1
          18 February 2013 23: 43
          Oh! How many generous rulers we had, Shivornadze, Yeltsin and Chernomyrdin. To the left and to the right, pieces of our patrimony were handed out either to Ukrainians or to amers. One of our hunchbacked heroes received an award, in the form of a Nobel Prize, for the collapse of the Union, and now they will make these amers their heroes.
          1. G02.
            0
            23 February 2013 14: 27
            oh, even if they put a penny in the treasury, they can only steal.
    2. Octavian avgust
      0
      20 February 2013 16: 45
      Putin Vladimir Vladimirovich! good
  2. Frigate
    -17
    18 February 2013 09: 23
    I don’t understand the term Russian land in this performance.
    1. +7
      18 February 2013 09: 28
      А RUSSIAN This is the Russian!
      1. Frigate
        -16
        18 February 2013 09: 49
        Quote: Smirnov Vadim
        And RUSSIAN is the Russian!

        In how. Or maybe people live there and do not want to be Russian, does this interest anyone?
        1. +12
          18 February 2013 10: 08
          Russians live in Kazakhstan and they don’t want to be Kazakhs ..... Develop your thought further! what
          1. Frigate
            -12
            18 February 2013 10: 18
            Quote: BIGLESHIY
            Russians live in Kazakhstan and they do not want to be Kazakhs

            Russian in Kazakhstan there is no oppression. Two languages: Kazakh and Russian. TV and Radio in two languages. The passport indicates nationality. And there are no hints that they want to make Russians Kazakhs.
            Broaden your horizons wider and thoughts, but not in this direction
            1. bdolah
              +6
              18 February 2013 10: 39
              And here you, my friend, cheat on me. Quite a lot of refugees from Kazakhstan of Russian nationality worked with me in Kamchatka. The chief geologist of our enterprise, for example, fled from Alma Ata with his family. I listened to their stories ....
              1. Frigate
                -5
                18 February 2013 10: 42
                Quote: bdolah
                And here you, my friend, cheat on me. Quite a lot of refugees from Kazakhstan of Russian nationality worked with me in Kamchatka. The chief geologist of our enterprise, for example, fled from Alma Ata with his family. I listened to their stories ....

                So let's tell their story here, I want to listen
                1. bdolah
                  +8
                  18 February 2013 11: 18
                  Quote: Frigate
                  Quote: bdolah
                  And here you, my friend, cheat on me. Quite a lot of refugees from Kazakhstan of Russian nationality worked with me in Kamchatka. The chief geologist of our enterprise, for example, fled from Alma Ata with his family. I listened to their stories ....

                  So let's tell their story here, I want to listen


                  Oh, don’t jerk, you understand very well that I can’t explain many hours of conversation here. By the way, I lived (and he served) with my father, a military man, Semipalinsk - 21, says something? Semalatinsk -22, Pavlodar, Tashkent, Nukus, Khiva, a total of 12 years. So I have some personal idea. And if earlier, by virtue of upbringing and lifestyle, I was an internationalist, now I am slowly becoming a Russian nationalist. And, oddly enough - I'm not ashamed.
                  1. EW
                    EW
                    +2
                    18 February 2013 11: 26
                    "Thank you" to the "friendly" peoples, thanks to which Russian good-natured internationalism becomes convinced nationalism!
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    18 February 2013 16: 33
                    Well, and how did you and your father get infringed in Semsk?
                2. 0
                  18 February 2013 14: 05
                  3 girls who withdrew from Kazakhstan in 95-97 studied in my class, all of them from Alma-Ata and together 3 families just abandoned the apartments and moved to the Kuban, and also talked about the attitude of local Kazakhs at that time ...
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +2
                    18 February 2013 16: 15
                    three quarters of Russian Kazakhstanis remained in Kazakhstan and 20 years after the collapse of the USSR. Is it not strange behavior of people who, in your opinion, live surrounded by evil nationalists? even poor Tajiks manage to move to Russia according to state programs, and Kazakh Russians do not even pack their bags.
                    My ex-classmate Sergei L-V moved from Almaty to Stavropol in 1999, because their family was persuaded to move there by their relatives. His father was the head of the GAZ representative office in Kazakhstan. They did not have any problems that were particularly different from those of other Kazakhstanis. If you had told their family that there is nationalism in Almaty, they would have played them at their temples (and they still will). The apartment was sold for almost 25 thousand dollars (in those years - a lot of money). But what later we - classmates - learned, struck us very unpleasantly. It turns out that they received the status of "forced migrant" in Russia in order to get an apartment for free according to the then Law on Forced Migrants (I don't remember exactly what the law was called), they say, refugees from hot spots and IDPs, if they left apartments in their small homeland, will receive equivalent housing in the Russian Federation. So my classmate's family wrote an essay about how they were allegedly humiliated by Kazakhs, fired from their jobs, and how they in a hurry abandoned a three-room apartment in the center of Almaty (Koktem-1 microdistrict, 1 "A"). We were in full Oh... bewildered. And then on the phone they asked, they say, what, a refugee, did you get a hut for free? Of course not. The law turned out to be idiotic and provocative. No one received apartments, but the resonance from the "oppressed Russians" remained, which was also reinforced by Russian politicians, who, in the wake of the gubernatorial, Duma and presidential elections, played on the card "I will defend the rights of abandoned and oppressed Russians in the near abroad." And if you also remember how many "Russian human rights organizations" barked in the field, which received money from Moscow to support Russian culture in Kazakhstan, and every year they wrote about the fact that if they were not given more money, then Russian culture in KZ would finally be whined. .. As soon as the stupid law on "forced migrants" was canceled, the flow of them instantly dried up, and as soon as they stopped paying the thieves from the Russian budget for the "development of Russian culture" from the Russian budget, the screams about the oppression of Russian culture in KZ disappeared.
                    And the Russians in Kazakhstan (usually still focusing on the Russian media), when asked about Kazakh nationalism, wave their hand somewhere in an indefinite direction, they say, “I have not personally encountered anything like that in our city, but I heard that where -that in the south (east, west, north) of Kazakhstan in the 90s there were manifestations of nationalism ... "
              2. +4
                18 February 2013 11: 41
                Quote: bdolah
                with his family generally fled from Alma Ata

                Now the retelling of the editorials of the official Kazakh newspapers will begin, that there was no nationalism there, and you slander everything
                Only in vain people do not break away, but how much has left?
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  18 February 2013 16: 19
                  those who did not intend to live outside of Russia left. Most adult Kazakh Russians by 1991 were not natives of the Kazakh SSR. and nevertheless, the vast majority of Russians remained in Kazakhstan.
              3. Focuser
                +1
                18 February 2013 23: 06
                Quote: bdolah
                with his family generally fled from Alma Ata

                I am Russian by nationality. In Almaty (then Alma-Ata) he was born, raised and live. I will not try to convince anyone of something, I will only say what I know myself living here. So, I just heard from you that someone in Almaty threw apartments and fled to Russia! Even recalling the 90s in Alma-Ata / Almaty, I hardly believe that this could be. But somehow there were no serious prerequisites for that .. Some of my relatives moved to Russia in the late 90s. There are also friends, classmates, colleagues, neighbors on the porch at different times who also left where. Who is in Canada, USA, Germany, and who is in Russia. These are all Slavs. So none of them ran! Calmly they sold everything and left. And of all those whom I remember (not only Slavs), I know only one case that some kind of conflict in the nat would contribute to the move. soil. And then, if you sort it out, then there would be nothing to be offended in general .. Basically, everyone was leaving thinking about the prospects.
              4. Octavian avgust
                +2
                20 February 2013 16: 49
                Well, do not develop Nazism and the like. Many Russian friends of mine live in Alma-Ata and no one told me about the infringement and the like. Rather, in Russia, Russians are treated worse than everyone. Here in the Baltic States is another matter!
            2. +3
              18 February 2013 11: 02
              And you try in Kazakhstan, get a job well, for example, in the tax. And then we’ll see who is Russian and Kazakh. And immediately it will be clear whether there is oppression or not)))
              1. Marek Rozny
                +1
                18 February 2013 16: 32
                in the civil service, most of the Kazakhs, because in the civil service it is required to know the state language, which most Russians still do not speak.
                nevertheless, there are enough Russians in the civil service, incl. and among ministers and vice ministers. Offhand, I’m calling the names of Russian-speaking people over the past 5 years (on or on duty): Sergey Gromov - current First Deputy Minister of Defense, Natalya Korzhova - Ministry of Finance, Svetlana Bakhmutova - Chairman of the Agency for Financial Supervision, Vladimir Shkolnik - Minister of Energy, Dernova - Minister Health, Bozhko - 1st Deputy Chairman of the National Security Committee (now Minister of Emergency Situations), Rogov - Head of the Constitutional Court, Ivan Otto (Deputy Interior Minister), Johann Merkel (Deputy Prosecutor General), Khrapunov (Governor of Almaty, then Vost-Kaz.oblast, before this is the Minister of Energy), Marchenko (head of the National Bank), Dyachenko (deputy chairman of the Mazhilis of the Parliament), Eugene Aman (answer. Secretary of the Ministry of Agriculture) Khitrin, Lukin, as well as a host of governors - Kulagin, Rau, Meister, etc., as well as a bunch of senators and Mazhilis . In addition, there is a bunch of Uyghurs, Koreans and Tatars.
                Z.Y. there are few Russians, not only in the civil service, but also among conscripts in the army. 90% of the recruits are Kazakhs. Most of the Russian guys mow from the army. And then they wonder why there are few of them in the civil service. And to work in the police, or even more rarely when they can take without army experience.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  18 February 2013 17: 00
                  only the Germans among the state administrators - a whole "gang" (in a good way), and the Slavs in general dofiga. and if I also remember the directors of departments and regional chiefs, then I’ll get bored.
                  who says that there are no Russians among Kazakh officials, he has no idea about the civil service of Kazakhstan.
            3. +4
              18 February 2013 12: 22
              Russia is the only country in the world that does not oppress small nations.
              1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
                +3
                18 February 2013 13: 21
                And how are things in Russia with the "big" people ????
            4. Marek Rozny
              +1
              18 February 2013 16: 46
              Even on Kazakh money, on the one hand, it is written in Russian for the convenience of those who do not speak the state language.
        2. nickname 1 and 2
          0
          18 February 2013 10: 20
          Frigate,

          And since when have they been living there? those. like what is the first egg or chicken?
          1. Frigate
            -8
            18 February 2013 10: 22
            Quote: nick 1 and 2
            And since when have they been living there? those. like what is the first egg or chicken?

            Neither one nor the other is primary.
            But the tribes of northern peoples live there, not Americans, I mean. And that Russia is not enough?
            1. EW
              EW
              0
              18 February 2013 10: 40
              Until your Israel is touched, be silent in a rag.
            2. +4
              18 February 2013 10: 55
              Quote: Frigate
              . And that Russia is not enough?

              Listen, dear guest from Kazakhstan, when without can the inhabitants of the places there come to Sait and say we don’t want to live in Russia, then we will discuss this topic. We will be (RUSSIAN) and not a Kazakh guest.
          2. 0
            18 February 2013 12: 23
            Quote: nick 1 and 2
            those. like what is the first egg or chicken?

            The answer is obvious - the egg is primary, the chicken is secondary.
            1. 0
              18 February 2013 23: 54
              Or vice versa. wassat
              1. 0
                19 February 2013 00: 02
                Well duck the first egg was not chicken laughing
        3. EW
          EW
          0
          18 February 2013 10: 36
          Take a ride and ask. Surely, I learned about the existence of the Arctic from this article. If only to bark at the Russians.
        4. +1
          18 February 2013 10: 53
          Quote: Frigate
          In how. Or maybe people live there and do not want to be Russian

          Yours can, you can leave to yourself!
        5. +1
          18 February 2013 12: 21
          The Russian population of northern Kazakhstan also wants to be free, but for some reason doesn’t that bother you? For ...... whether your double standards. You are interested in a handout from fascistton.
          1. Marek Rozny
            -2
            18 February 2013 16: 37
            Quote: Setrac
            The Russian population of northern Kazakhstan also wants to be free, but for some reason doesn’t that bother you? For ...... whether your double standards. You are interested in a handout from fascistton.

            And what do you see the infringement of Russians in Kazakhstan? They have access to Russian schools and institutes in the country, to Russian-language media, freedom of religion, receive documents from state bodies in Russian, freely celebrate their holidays, have all the rights prescribed in the Constitution of Kazakhstan, and can make a career in business or public service . What do not suit you in their life?
            1. -1
              18 February 2013 19: 26
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And what do you see the infringement of Russians in Kazakhstan? They have access to Russian schools and institutes in the country, to Russian-language media, freedom of religion, receive documents from state bodies in Russian, freely celebrate their holidays, have all the rights prescribed in the Constitution of Kazakhstan, and can make a career in business or public service . What do not suit you in their life?

              There is no need to turn my words over, nobody in Russia oppresses small nations, but on the contrary, donates, but the conversation was not about the welfare of national minorities, the conversation was about the alleged desire of residents of Wrangel to separate about Russia, but did not want to give freedom to Northern Kazakhstan. We don’t care about such double standards from the Americans; we send amers on a long sexual journey, but Fregat has the flag of Kazakhstan, who is he? Do you feed the State Department? inciting ethnic hatred in Russia is a criminal offense.
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                18 February 2013 20: 32
                Personally, I am against the fragmentation of Russia or what other country of the former Soviet Union. Moreover, it is impossible for some small nations to live outside of any other country because of their absolute small size. But do not forget that Russia conquered these peoples or annexed them voluntarily-forcibly. It is rare that nations join truly voluntarily. How many had to fight with the Chukchi there before they forced and accept Russian citizenship? 200 years like? I no longer recall the hot spots in the history of Russian expansion.
                And Kazakhstan does not support double standards. Therefore, we did not recognize the independence of Chechnya, did not recognize Kosovo, and did not recognize South Ossetia with Abkhazia.
                And Northern Kazakhstan does not have any rights to secession. The civilian Russian population appeared there only at the end of the 19th century (Cossacks and soldiers a little earlier - usually in the middle of the 18th-beginning of the 19th century) and remained small in comparison with the local Kazakhs until the evacuation of the population during World War II, virgin lands and Komsomol construction projects. Why should Sev.Kazakhstan be separated?
                1. +1
                  18 February 2013 21: 55
                  And I didn’t say that Kazakhstan supports double standards, the attack was on Comrade Frigate, who with his generous hand was ready to hand out Russian territories, so I doubted his citizenship.
                  History is a prostitute who falls under the elite, so who has what the question is right to (the question of Northern Kazakhstan), but Russia does not dispute this territory with Kazakhstan.
                  And Georgia was forcibly joined by Armenia, Little Russia. on the contrary, such as the Chukchi were units, the majority joined either voluntarily or by the fait accompli of the Russian economic activity.
        6. jack clubs
          0
          18 February 2013 12: 51
          Who knows what and who wants it. Some people imagine themselves Napoleons and want Josephine.
          What do you personally want? Do you personally like Russia? For yourself personally, answer and get nuts.
      2. Marek Rozny
        +2
        18 February 2013 16: 50
        In this matter, the notions of "Russian land" and "Russian land" should not be confused. For example, tell a Tatar or Bashkir that this is Tatarstan or Bashkortostan - "Russian land". To put it mildly, he will not understand you. And in the worst case, he will literally start fighting. But if you say that this is Russian territory, then no one will have grievances or misunderstandings. The Russian land is Novgorod, Ryazan, Tver. Udmurt land - Izhevsk, Tatar land - Kazan, Elabuga, Naberezhnye Chelny. And all together - the Russian land. That's so fair and right.
        1. -2
          18 February 2013 19: 30
          In the past, these peoples came and began to live on RUSSIAN land when they were nomads, so everything is right, the land is Russian, the Russians are autochthonous people, contrary to Western propaganda.
          1. Marek Rozny
            0
            18 February 2013 20: 19
            when the ancestors of the Kazan Bulgars and Mordovians settled the present lands, there were no Slavs there. it is only in the delusional writings of the Russo-Aryans that the Slavs lived millenia years ago throughout the earth.
            1. 0
              18 February 2013 21: 41
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              when the ancestors of the Kazan Bulgars and Mordovians settled the present lands, there were no Slavs there. it is only in the delusional writings of the Russo-Aryans that the Slavs lived millenia years ago throughout the earth.

              And where does the Bulgars and Mordovians and Tatars? How did the Volga Bulgars magically turn into Tatars? This is a discrepancy in traditional history. This is the first. Secondly - Western propaganda divides us, we are all one people. Thirdly, archeology and genetics proved that the Slavs are auto-technicians on the territory of almost all of Russia, and I draw attention to the Slavs.
              1. +1
                18 February 2013 23: 40
                setrac and you are a stuffer laughing
                at least a couple of proofs you can lay out as proof of your delirium?
                1. -1
                  19 February 2013 00: 09
                  There is archeology, there is genetics, arkaim, Tripolitanian culture, there are sites of ancient people around Moscow and the Don, who are older than the Egyptian pyramids, what evidence do you need? Where is the evidence of traditional history? This traditional story is based on dubious annals that have not reached us; this traditional story is unproven, unscientific.
                  Finally there are Ainu, who are not Mongoloid, but of a very European race. In the end there is common sense. There is an understanding that history is the strongest propaganda weapon.
                  To answer substantively I need to know specifically which part of my post you did not like.
    2. Xtra1l
      0
      18 February 2013 10: 16
      That’s when you will have Kazakhstan land
  3. +4
    18 February 2013 09: 42
    Such articles are helpful. A plus. And as to whose land - no one protests about the island of Grumant, although the word "indisputable" there is very controversial. What can I say, a wounded lion is a wounded lion, God willing, we'll get well
  4. +2
    18 February 2013 09: 47
    The habit of grabbing does not go away over the years. Let's see what the Yankees will do next.
  5. Aleksandr34
    +6
    18 February 2013 09: 47
    Yes, if they hadn't sold Alaska in 1867, the whole alignment of forces could have changed in an interesting way. They put the Topol in Alaska, airfields with strategists and great champions of democracy would have become so accommodating.
    1. +5
      18 February 2013 11: 47
      Quote: Alexander34
      not sold in 1867, Alaska

      It wasn’t possible to hold it back then. The transsib had not yet been built and the Northern Sea Route had not passed, it was necessary to go almost around the entire ball. Now it’s not far, but then on sailing ships ...
      But sorry
      1. +1
        18 February 2013 12: 33
        They did not sell it, but leased it !!!! Just our American lawyers on .... whether!
      2. Passing
        +3
        18 February 2013 17: 45
        Quote: Denis
        Do not hold it back then.

        What nonsense. Sorry, don’t take it personally, this is me about the thesis itself. Zadolbali these tales, excuses launched into the people by traitors who traded Russian land!
        Do you know that the American Civil War ended in 1865, two years before the sale of Alaska? Who is there trying to encroach on Alaska, who the hell did she need in America devastated by war ?! Klondike type? Gold was found there only in 1896, and in general Klondike is in Canada! And in general, Alaska does not have a common border with the United States, i.e. would have to fight across the ocean. Why do they need this barren overseas territory at such a price, what is the benefit that would justify these gigantic costs of the war?
        Do you know that the amount received for the sale of Alaska was approximately equal to the amount spent on the campaign of our squadron to the shores of America during the Civil War in order to support the USA ?! Those. we sent our fleet to the northerners for the last money, and then we sold our land to them in order to return the money spent on this worthless business ??? !!! This is insanity of the highest standard, an epic scale madhouse !!!
        And the only reason for the sale of Alaska was a terrible budget deficit. And if the great Russian rulers, such as Ivan the Terrible and Peter the Great, solved this problem by voluntarily-forced milking of the elite, then the tsarist elite, who had long been no longer Russian, did not dare to encroach on the elite, because the nobleman had become more significant than its owner. Therefore, they got the money in the traditional way for everyone who went down - selling off the inheritance of their ancestors.
        1. +1
          18 February 2013 18: 43
          Quote: Passing by
          Who was trying to attack Alaska

          Not the then-USA, the current state-owned printing house, then no one took them into account. There, their liberal sovereignty formed, not only homegrown. Do not count only Alaska, this
          Quote: Passing by
          insanity of the highest standard
          We consider almost all of the west coast. There were only those who were there. So they are there, and in Russia they need to be dragged from afar to throw a piece to them or to throw something, that they don’t scream much
          The wrappers had no time for printing, the Russian volunteers helped her fight for independence, the Cossack Ivan had a minute with the detachment, and he wasn’t alone
    2. +1
      18 February 2013 15: 57
      About Alaska - we did not sell it. She was leased for 100 years. days we had to pay in gold dollars - that is, made of yellow metal called gold. They paid in paper, although at that time they were taking a different course. so from a legal point of view, Alaska is torn away from Russia fraudulently.
      But what then, what now, we still do not have the strength to restore justice. it is necessary to get a little tidy up with forces.
      1. Passing
        +4
        18 February 2013 16: 56
        Quote: Andrew-001
        About Alaska - we did not sell it. She was leased for 100 years.

        This is folk myth-making. Read the contract, there is not a hint of rent, it is written very clearly - we are losing our territory. We don’t temporarily give, but give in:
        Agreement Concerning the Assignment of Russian Property in North America between His Majesty the Emperor of All Russia and the United States of America

        http://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%C4%EE%E3%EE%E2%EE%F0_%EE_%EF%F0%EE%E4%E0%E6%E5_%C

        0% EB% FF% F1% EA% E8
        1. 0
          18 February 2013 17: 28
          The link does not work.
          And unfortunately I can’t read the contract, because I do not speak English properly, much less French. And in my native Russian language, the contract never existed.
          By the way - the very fact of fraud on the part of the USA you hope you will not deny ?!
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            18 February 2013 17: 51
            the link works. the text (translation, essno) is there in Russian.
          2. Passing
            +1
            18 February 2013 17: 52
            As a person who read the contract, albeit in translation into Russian, of course I will)))
            What exactly is fraud?
            By reference: remove the extra spaces in the link, where there is a line break, and everything will open
            1. +1
              19 February 2013 12: 52
              Thanks for clarification - the link worked) It was interesting to read.
              And the fraud is as follows: Article 6 of the Treaty: The United States agrees to pay ..., seven million two hundred thousand dollars in gold.

              The indicated amount in GOLD Russia has not received. On August 1, 1868, the Russian envoy in Washington, Baron Eduard Stekl, received a check from the Treasury, but not for gold, but for treasury bonds in the amount of 7 million 35 thousand dollars.
              At that time, the Paris World Monetary System operated, which recognized gold as the only form of gold money. Thus, payment by Check according to the current international standards is invalid.
              Those. The US government, knowing that Russia, not having the ability to hold Alaska and not wanting to lose face, will not be indignant at the fact of payment in a reduced amount and intentionally committed the fact of fraud in a non-standard way - that is, it acquired the right to another's property by deceit and breach of trust.
      2. +2
        19 February 2013 00: 03
        That's right, and we’ll hammer the arrow with the amers, turn on the meter, and for each last year we will calculate the penalty for the operation of Alaska. wassat
  6. Alikovo
    +1
    18 February 2013 09: 49
    Alaska is the land of Russia in fact, America sent poachers there. The Russian government surrendered, it would be easier to shoot Amer. poachers.
  7. EW
    EW
    +2
    18 February 2013 10: 50
    Urgently send meteorologists to all the islands of the Russian Arctic. By platoon to a weather station laughing soldier
    1. bdolah
      +2
      18 February 2013 11: 29
      Or develop agriculture there, with mowers, crushers and threshers of vertical take-off .. smile
  8. +3
    18 February 2013 10: 56
    plus ...... good article.
  9. 0
    18 February 2013 11: 38
    Yes, of course they have the appetites of the wow, but it wasn’t there !!! We don’t need someone else’s we don’t give our own !!!!! Davydov well done !!!! A true patriot who served faithfully in his own country!
  10. +5
    18 February 2013 11: 42
    The world is on the verge of collapse of financial and monetary relations. Land has absolute objective value, the amount that is significant for the sale of Alaska is subjective value. Russia did not receive material money for Alaska. The deal was corrupt, which means it must be canceled. US occupies Russian territory - Alaska.
    1. +1
      19 February 2013 00: 08
      Yes, it is our turn to let America go around the world, it will not pay for the exploitation of Alaska. negative laughing
  11. anchonsha
    +2
    18 February 2013 12: 07
    But how much we Russians know little about our country, about our polar heroes. I first heard about Davydov, a member of the expedition to about. Wrangel. No, we will not give our land to anyone, no matter how the Amers or Canadians lick.
  12. Volkhov
    +3
    18 February 2013 12: 27
    The nationalists of America have limited thinking - the whole of the Russian Federation has long belonged to America, and they only want a bear den. Maybe they are about. They will study the boiler house - there are better dens ...
  13. Avenger711
    0
    18 February 2013 14: 14
    There is also a legend about the construction of GULAG camps on this land.


    Yeah, I wonder how it was supposed to supply at least ten thousand prisoners there, but the fans of "a billion shot by Stalin personally" do not have the brains to realize this.
  14. 0
    18 February 2013 14: 45
    I suggest that American nationalists get comfortable places to live in Kolyma. Let's see how long they last there. Still, it's not the Middle East where it's warm. laughing
  15. 0
    18 February 2013 15: 03
    In the order of the command of the naval forces of the Far East, issued by B.V. Davydov was told: “In the event of the inevitability of a collision caused by the opposition of foreigners (Americans) of the main goal of the expedition, to act on the actual balance of power of both sides until the arrest of the crew of the American ship. If the island has someone else’s flag, it should be removed, the mast be cut down. ”In October 1925, the influential American newspaper The New York Times wrote:“ England and America essentially have no rights to this island, the only state that has the right on him, is the USSR. If the Soviet government colonizes Wrangel Island, then other states are unlikely to challenge sovereignty on this territory ”!!!
  16. Pere lachaise
    +1
    18 February 2013 18: 24
    1)
    For the entire time of the possession of Alaska, the Russian colony did not exceed 2000 people.
    (from the book of Y. Korshunov)

    "There were really few Russians. However, on the entire vast territory of the then Pacific possessions of Russia (Okhotsk-Kamchatka Territory) with an area of ​​2 million km2 and an even more huge water area at the beginning of the 5th century, only about 1,5 thousand Russians lived, of which only 1 thousand in Kamchatka, the land closest to Russian America. In the town of Okhotsk there were only 300 inhabitants, in Gizhiginsk - 657, in Petropavlovs-Kamchatka - 180 inhabitants, including 25 women. [3] At the same time, this handful of people had to be protected state interests in the region. And the pacification of Chukotka is not over yet. Only in 1806 the Chukchi devastated the Russian trading post and killed 14 Russians. In these conditions, there were simply not enough people physically to develop Russian America. " (from)

    "In 1839, the Russian population of Alaska was 823, which was the maximum in the entire history of Russian America. Usually the number of Russians was somewhat smaller." (from)
    (http://ruskline.ru/analitika/2012/10/24/kakoj_byla_russkaya_amerika/)


    2)
    Many consumer goods were purchased in California and the Hawaiian Islands, which, by the way, were not a single state (if I may say so), but each island was ruled by its own "king". One of which subsequently, under pressure from the United States, stopped trading with Russia. And the second didn't do it anyway.

    3)
    The inability to defend such remote territories by military means.
    4)
    A political decision not to get involved in contradictions with the States that were gaining strength, constantly striving to round off territories. And at that time they were also in fairly good relations with the Russian Empire.
    1. Passing
      0
      18 February 2013 19: 45
      Quote: Pere Lachaise
      For the entire time of the possession of Alaska, the Russian colony did not exceed 2000 people.

      Firstly, a thousand Russians are not khukh-mukhras, they were extremely courageous and decisive, just by definition - if they got to Alaska, it’s not a mess.
      Secondly, if you do not make efforts, then there will be no result. There would be a purposeful will of the state, it would be ten thousand, one hundred thousand.
      For example, in 1863-1864, two Russian squadrons went to the shores of America. What did they do there? Yes, they just showed the flag, provided moral support to the northerners. Why, instead of the really necessary strengthening of the Far East and Alaska, they rode in vain, burning an already meager budget?
      Quote: Pere Lachaise
      One of which subsequently, under pressure from the United States, ceased to trade with Russia. And the second one didn’t.

      For this, there is diplomacy, if you cannot agree with one country, then you can always agree with another.
      What did the tsarist government do, why did it openly ignore this problem?
      Quote: Pere Lachaise
      The inability to defend such remote territories by military means.

      For the USA, these were the same remote territories, although of course closer than for us. And what's the point of conquering them? There was nothing so valuable as to start a war because of this. Especially if these territories were purposefully strengthened by Russia.
      Quote: Pere Lachaise
      A political decision not to get involved in contradictions with the States that were gaining strength, constantly striving to round off territories.

      If we always tried "not to get involved in contradictions with those who were gaining strength," then there would be no Russia, but there would be native Turkish, Austrian, Swedish, etc. territories of countries that are exactly what "get involved in contradictions with gaining strength."
      1. Pere lachaise
        0
        18 February 2013 21: 31
        Are you a "hurray patriot"? A thousand people, this is a thousand people, and it is not necessary to build cyborgs and supermen out of them.
        About ships is not entirely accurate. Not only support for the North. In view of the aggravated relations with the British and others like them, these ships would block their Pacific communications. And how they burst for them, at least the fact that declaring the Bering Sea as its inland sea, Russia immediately received a note of protest and almost a promise of war.
        Are you serious about Hawaii? Is it easy to take and arrange with someone else? With whom?
        And what is the meaning of the conquests of the far north and other remote territories for us? I think the same for them.
        And do not equate the problem of "windows to Europe" and other strategically important things with the farthest corner of the Empire, which objectively brought the country more expenses than income.
        1. Passing
          +1
          18 February 2013 21: 55
          Quote: Pere Lachaise
          Are you a "hurray patriot"?

          Just a patriot. Patriot Vulgaris if pleases.)))
          Quote: Pere Lachaise
          A thousand people, a thousand people, and you don’t need to build cyborgs and supermen from them.

          How many US citizens would oppose them? A Million Cyborg Terminators? Where would they come from, for what purpose would they arrive there? What is the economic interest, so to speak?
          Quote: Pere Lachaise
          Are you serious about Hawaii? Is it easy to take and arrange with someone else? With whom?

          With Japan for example. For example, conclude a pact on a joint division of the region.
          With China, for example, conclude an anti-French or anti-Japanese pact.
          Quote: Pere Lachaise
          And what is the meaning of the conquests of the far north and other remote territories for us?

          The main wealth in Tsarist Russia came from the northern territories and Siberia, i.e. it should be simply obvious to the Russian, based on his historical experience, that if even now there is little sense from Alaska, then there will definitely be a profit in the future.
          Quote: Pere Lachaise
          And do not equate the problem of "windows to Europe" and other strategically important things with the farthest corner of the Empire, which objectively brought the country more expenses than income.

          The costs of developing an unnecessary region would be meager, relative to those very strategic areas, such as the Black Sea straits.
  17. +1
    18 February 2013 19: 43
    You look at the Khabarovsk Territory and the Far East. And it immediately becomes clear why in vain to break the spears?
  18. Passing
    0
    18 February 2013 19: 45
    Quote: Pere Lachaise
    For the entire time of the possession of Alaska, the Russian colony did not exceed 2000 people.

    Firstly, a thousand Russians are not khukh-mukhras, they were extremely courageous and decisive, just by definition.
    Secondly, if you do not make efforts, then there will be no result. There would be a purposeful will of the state, it would be ten thousand, one hundred thousand.
    For example, in 1863-1864, two Russian squadrons went to the shores of America. What did they do there? Yes, they just showed the flag, provided moral support to the northerners. Why, instead of the really necessary strengthening of the Far East and Alaska, they rode in vain, burning an already meager budget?
    Quote: Pere Lachaise
    One of which subsequently, under pressure from the United States, ceased to trade with Russia. And the second one didn’t.

    For this, there is diplomacy, if you cannot agree with one country, then you can always agree with another.
    What did the tsarist government do, why did it openly ignore this problem?
    Quote: Pere Lachaise
    The inability to defend such remote territories by military means.

    For the USA, these were the same remote territories, although of course closer than for us. And what's the point of conquering them? There was nothing so valuable as to start a war because of this. Especially if these territories were purposefully strengthened by Russia.
    Quote: Pere Lachaise
    A political decision not to get involved in contradictions with the States that were gaining strength, constantly striving to round off territories.

    If we always tried "not to get involved in contradictions with those who were gaining strength," then there would be no Russia, but there would be native Turkish, Austrian, Swedish, etc. territories of countries that are exactly what "get involved in contradictions with gaining strength."
  19. 0
    18 February 2013 21: 05
    It is a pity that nobody lives there now. At least our Chukchi ...
  20. +1
    18 February 2013 21: 27
    Everyone needs our islands, but we will not give them to anyone!
  21. -1
    18 February 2013 22: 57
    IT IS NECESSARY TO GIVE ANY PIN DOS DOS FOR - A MAGNIFICENT ON THE COLLAR AND THREE RACCOUNT TULUPS, RENEWING 47 SKINS OF WHITE BEARS SELECTED BY SEASONS ........................ A IF EVERYTHING IS GOING WITH THE SAME RATES THEN SOMEONE AND NO NEED TO DEFEND THESE ISLANDS, REALLY DOESN'T REACH ANY COMMANDERS THAT THE PEOPLE WILL NOT RESPOND IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED, AND WERE BEEN AWARDED. .................................... YES AND SOMEONE WILL ALREADY GIVE A RESPONSE TO THINK; THIS SHOULD BE THINKED! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  22. serge
    +1
    18 February 2013 23: 15
    International law is a matter of power. As long as Russia has nuclear weapons and the determination to use them, no America will take any Wrangel island for itself. As for Alaska ... When the US falls apart, Alaska will have nowhere to go, only to Russia. Another thing is that under Russia there is also a mine in the face of the mass of small nationalist formations in its structure.
  23. +3
    19 February 2013 06: 33
    Quote: Denis
    Now the retelling of the editorials of the official Kazakh newspapers will begin, that there was no nationalism there, and you are slandering all in vain. Only in vain do people not break loose, and how much has left?

    As you got with your horror stories about the oppression of Russians in Kazakhstan and with this question, why so much has left! And why from Russia millions of Russians left for the West !?

    Quote: Armavir
    3 girls who withdrew from Kazakhstan in 95-97 studied in my class, all of them from Alma-Ata and together 3 families just abandoned the apartments and moved to the Kuban, and also talked about the attitude of local Kazakhs at that time ...

    To put it mildly, either you or your classmates are "mistaken". In an extreme case, I think, out of the habit of Soviet times, they made some chauvinistic statements somewhere (I know that, for example, in Soviet times, speaking Kazakh in the presence of Russians in a public place was fraught with accusations of nationalism and the demand to "talk humanly "?), but - what a horror! - were rebuffed (how dare these savages !?), and now everyone is told about the rampant Kazakh nationalism. In short, all the horrors of Kazakh nationalism are, I would say, a figment of the imagination of the notorious Russian imperial consciousness, hurt by the collapse of the Union.
    1. 0
      19 February 2013 06: 59
      Quote: Nomad
      why millions of Russians left Russia for the West !?

      And this is, and on what scale it was! For a better life
      Only this no one hides and does not call it horror stories, there is enough decency to recognize our "shoals." Yes, our own, about power, like someone from the State Department about Samos, he is an asshole, but our shit
    2. Marek Rozny
      0
      19 February 2013 07: 45
      about abandoned apartments - it's still garbage! quite often in Russia they generally say that all Russian women are raped by Kazakhs, and any Russian guy is slaughtered to death in the evening))) and they "remember" Kazakh posters with the words "Don't leave, we need slaves and prostitutes." we live in such a nightmare and do not suspect)))))
      in Moscow with one very pretty girl (she is from Izhevsk) went to a restaurant. chatting, she talks about her Izhevsk, I'm talking about Astana. And then she asks: "Tell me, is it true that all Russians have already been massacred in Kazakhstan?" I, of course, could not resist and fooled, joking: "No, in the Astana mountains two more survived somewhere else and are hiding from us ..." In short, eyes full of horror. In vain then tried to convince her that there are millions of Russians in Kazakhstan and they are not in danger. The girl kept repeating: “You don’t need to persuade me, we show the truth on TV, I know everything ... You kill and rape Russians. And in general, you have a civil war going on ...” In short, the girl was not glued, there was no time for cupids , the evening was ruined))))
  24. +1
    19 February 2013 08: 46
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    about abandoned apartments - this is still garbage!

    I also like the argument about apartments sold for nothing - in the center of Almaty for 500 USD in 199 ... year. At the same time, they overlook the fact that in the 90s apartments were worth so much, even in Almaty. wink

    Quote: Denis
    For a better life

    So the fact of the matter is that in Kazakhstan the economic situation was even worse! They also left for a better life, and did not run away from some mythical pogroms and massacres. I personally know several Russians who left for Russia, but then returned, and these are only those whom, I emphasize, I personally know. Would they come back to where something threatens their life and health? I have half of my Russian friends among friends, no one is going anywhere. Among young people (20–25 years old) there are more suitcase moods, I will not hide, but solely because in Russia the market, including the labor market, is many times larger, and, accordingly, there are more opportunities. In Moscow you have almost as many people as in all of Kazakhstan.

    Quote: Nomad
    In short, the girl did not stick together, it was not up to cupids, the evening was ruined))))

    It is amazing how she generally went on a date with a kind of steppe abrek, who at home raps Russian girls and rasset Russian guys with a knife! laughing
    1. 0
      19 February 2013 09: 22
      Quote: Nomad
      Russian guys with a knife

      Demagogy mastered well, salute to teachers
      But this is only ... zdolbolstvo. Who and where when he spoke about the massacre?
      Quote: Nomad
      And you try in Kazakhstan, get a job well, for example, in the tax. And then we’ll see who is Russian and Kazakh. And immediately it will be clear whether there is oppression or not
      and against this, only in my own words, the press got
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        19 February 2013 14: 46
        The massacre and other Hitchcock were especially zealous in the 90s and early 2000s. Now the Russian media and politicians do not indulge in this, but at various forums (even here on the site) no, no, yes, there will be some ardent "fighter for the rights of the oppressed" who recalls how "Russian rezali" in Kazakhstan)))
        Soot is dust, but it's hard to brush it off.
        And many Russians think: "Well, if they didn't cut, then they probably infringed somehow ..." Now, even the transition of the Kazakh alphabet to the Latin alphabet was attributed to the factors of infringement of the rights of Russians)))) And discouraged Kazakh Russians in Almaty, without colliding in life with nationalism, they decide that this is happening somewhere in Northern Kazakhstan. At the same time, the northern Russians are convinced that it is in the south, somewhere in the south, that the members of the same tribe are being oppressed. And everyone thinks: "Our local Kazakhs are normal, and in the south (north) there are worried Natsiks." They need to somehow overcome the cognitive dissonance. laughing
        In general, the situation is normal. The nationality or religion of another person is not very important to Kazakhstanis. We can trick each other about national features) Moreover, most of our shortcomings are the same) Muslims get along with Jews, Turks with Kurds, Armenians with Azeris, Russians with Chechens. And the number of interethnic marriages in Kazakhstan is still the highest in the CIS, as it was in Soviet times. In the Cathedral of Almaty I saw Kazakh choristers, and one of the main imams of this city, Ali Khoja, is an ethnic Ukrainian Oleg Rubets (a former Afghan warrior and a very wise man, he used to broadcast very interesting programs about religion on the radio). Anything, of course, can happen - there will always be a dunce who will begin to believe that his nation is "the smartest and most beautiful", but such idiots are given the state or their own right in the head. We have a lot of ethnic groups and religions here, and non-titular ones - 40 percent. We get along quite well. There is enough room for everyone. Even dancing lezginka on the street or burning stuffed animals at the Pancake. And no one would even think of offending a foreign guest worker, there were no such cases in KZ in general, despite the fact that there are even more ghasts per capita in our country than in Russia.
        In addition to the traditional sense of tolerance (and in KZ they are unfamiliar with the Russian abusive version of this concept, such as "tolerasty", etc.), the population adheres to a good formula: "Kazakhs do not blame the Russian people for excesses of Soviet power, and Russians do not ascribe to themselves the merits of Soviet power." ... Such a scheme, according to which people act almost instinctively, allows the normal coexistence of the two main ethnic groups of Kazakhstan with each other to continue.
  25. +1
    19 February 2013 13: 44
    Quote: Denis
    But this is only ... zdolbolstvo. Who and where when he spoke about the massacre?

    Quote: Denis
    and against this, only in my own words, the press got

    Denis, reread Marek Rozny's comments more closely. In them, everything is laid out on the shelves for all your questions and claims, unless of course you are really interested in an alternative view. And then there are some comrades who are not comrades to us, they have that very imperial consciousness so badly traumatized that they no longer perceive anything from the other side, and when the list of accusations dries up, they switch to banal insults such as "ungrateful sheep, we you were taught to walk on your hind legs, etc. " I sincerely hope that you are not like that.
  26. busido4561
    +2
    20 February 2013 14: 14
    Back in Soviet times, in July 1991, there were rumors in our city in Kazakhstan that there was no bread in Moscow, it was very bad with food, etc. And we, students, had to undergo summer practice at a construction plant there. Arriving in Moscow, we reassured our relatives that there was plenty of food and there was no shortage at all. Many Russians asked me whether camels really wander in the streets of Kazakhstan in our cities, and people live in yurts, because so many people with whom I talked thought. Even Americans and other foreigners sometimes could not find Kazakhstan on the map. All this I lead to the fact that people in different countries have a certain opinion about other countries, and that in reality there isn’t. Therefore, before judging another country, it is better to look for more reliable information, and not to believe false rumors. I agree with my fellow countrymen from Kazakhstan with Marek Rozny and Nomad that certain boobies or extremists are fueling ethnic hatred, which is beneficial to undermine the situation for the sake of their interests. And so, we have enough space for all nationalities. The truth is near, but some people try not to notice it.

    After one and a half on August 16, I flew home to Kazakhstan, and in Moscow on August 19 there was a putsch. Our 5 classmates, who remained there for some time, told upon returning home that the main events that were shown on television (rallies, the introduction of tanks) took place in the city center, and on the outskirts everything was peaceful, and you can’t say that some kind of mess is going on.

    After one and a half on August 16, I flew home to Kazakhstan, and in Moscow on August 19 there was a putsch. Our 5 classmates, who remained there for some time, told upon returning home that the main events that were shown on television (rallies, the introduction of tanks) took place in the city center, and on the outskirts everything was peaceful, and you can’t say that some kind of mess is going on.
  27. Octavian avgust
    +2
    21 February 2013 12: 52
    busido4561 You are right!
  28. busido4561
    +1
    21 February 2013 13: 40
    And yet, there was a time when there were interruptions or no electricity in our city for several days in winter, and therefore there were also various rumors about what was happening in the world, because few people had the opportunity to watch TV and listen to the radio. All I mean is that if there is no reliable information, and the human nature is such that negative thoughts are always the first to come to mind, rather than positive ones, then they begin to come up with various horror films, etc., as in the psychological game "Broken Phone", when one a participant whispers information in the ear of another, and after a few participants in a circle he receives completely different information.

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