Bullets Kacheeva: to be continued ...

In the comments to the previous article about the bullets of Vasily Ivanovich Kacheev, it was suggested that since nobody was interested in development, it means that they do not represent such great value. In this article we will try to clarify some points, and we hope that everything will fall into place and there will be an understanding of why these munitions are not needed in our homeland. Looking ahead, I note that the bullets that are recognized by the invention, are interested outside the former Soviet Union. But let's get everything in order.

As it was said earlier, if you apply Al + PTFE coating, you will not receive a megabeet of ammunition, but a quite decent increase in the speed of a bullet in front of the target will be - with the same weight of gunpowder. However, the work with the manufacturing plants, on experienced cartridges with fluoropoly-4-covered bullets, though there were, but not more than once with each.

Actually, here is a vivid example of how they reacted to the development of Vasily Ivanovich Kacheev in Russia. The anti-friction properties of PTFE-4 are the same as those of teflon on the KTW pool. But there is no point in arguing why KTW bullets are being produced, and for Al + PTFE coated bullets, we only “butt” on the site — disregard of the innate Russian inventors — is transmitted by genes!

The Barnaul cartridge inventor sent several dozen hunting bullets of caliber 7,62 × 39 mm with Al + PTFE coating, which he applied himself. It should be noted separately that the designer simply did not have the opportunity to independently determine the number of batches for shooting, the number of cartridges in the party - all this was determined by the plant that had shot them. The grossness of the gross cartridges is as follows: R50 - 3,4 cm, and R100 - 12,2 cm. For cartridges with aluminum coated only, the accuracy was R50 - 2,8 for R100 - 28,1. Next - the most interesting. For individual batches, cartridges with Al + PTFE coating on bullets showed such accuracy: R50 - 3,2 cm; 3,6 cm; 4,2 cm, and R100 - 8,8 cm; 11,8 cm; 13,9 see. If we compare the average result of bullets with Al + PTFE coating with the result of gross bullets, we get the very 5,7%, which are listed in the first article. We compare various experimental gross cartridges: without coating (reference), only with Al, with two-layer coating Al + PTFE. Accuracy equal to 28,1 in a batch of 10 bullets with Al coating only; and 12,2 for gross bullets. The accuracy of experienced bullets with Al coating in 2,3 is worse than (230%) the accuracy of gross bullets.

Next, we compare the accuracy of bullets with Al coating equal to 28,1; with the accuracy of batches of cartridges whose bullets are coated with Al + PTFE: 28,1 / 8,8 = 3,19; 28,1 / 11,8 = 2,38; 28,1 / 13,9 = 2,02.

Can in three batches of bullets with an outer layer of fluoroplastic-4, randomly improve the number of pieces in the range from 2 times (200%‼) to 3,2 times (320%‼) - relative to bullets coated with Al only ?! No, he can not. Therefore, it is quite reasonable to say: the fluoroplastic-4 coating applied by the steel pile of the drive brush will positively affect both the accuracy and the armor penetration - as well as the Teflon coating on the KTW bulletin invented in the USA.

The processing class (quality) of the surface of the combat units of artillery and mortar rounds is significantly lower than that of gross bullets with Al coating. Therefore, the author recommends applying millions of such shots stored in warehouses, using the technology patented by him, to cover Al + PTFE - to reduce the expenditure of shells and mines on hitting targets, saving the lives of our soldiers and officers. IN AND. Kacheyev proposed an effective and low-cost technological way to improve the country's defense.

Soft bullets with Al + PTFE core made for the first time in the world armory industry. If we take a debugged production, in which the thickness of the coating layers is already measured and the best result is known, then we can count on a result close to 8,8! In other words, the invention of Vasily Ivanovich Kacheev can be brought to excellent performance. Bullets Vasily Ivanovich at the moment are almost the only option to give the old weapons improved characteristics, and this possibility happens only 1 time in 100 years, if not less. It’s up to hand lasers, railguns and Gaus guns to us, and not only to us, oh how far away, but weapons need to be developed and improved now. All you need is to help the inventor bring the development to “mind”, be surprised at the results and put into series, but we, as always in Russia, wish this opportunity to succeed.
With cartridges for a smooth-bore rifle, everything is simpler, at least there is an opportunity to independently determine the best coverage option, thanks to the 12-caliber rifle can still be purchased by civilians. For testing used a hunting rifle MP-153. The bullet was made of U10 sub-caliber steel, naturally, with Al + PTFE coating. Bullet weight 22 grams, divided by the powder charge design MA Sour. Result: the speed of 515-520 meters per second well, and photos of punched plates.

Naturally, neither hunters nor the defense industry will be interested in such a bullet, since one doesn’t need such results, but in our army and law enforcement agencies for smooth-bore weapons, they are only looking at what is already happening for many years.
In addition, the inventor shot, with a smooth-bore gun, the hunting version of the bullet - a simplified version of the combat bullet caliber 12,7 mm. For this, a wooden container was made, in which a bullet was placed in order for the projectile to be projectile to match the caliber of the weapon, all this is packed in a cartridge case and after that you can quite successfully shoot with similar ammunition. Separately, it should be noted that in this case the main role is played not so much by the coverage as by the shape of the bullet itself, thanks to which the bullet stabilizes in flight, which, in fact, happens. The possibility of manufacturing both hunting bullets and combat bullets on one type of equipment is an important advantage of the development of V. I. Kacheev.

And now the fun part. Olin (USA) became interested in the development of the gunsmith - a bullet on application number 2011132540, which is recognized as an invention. Olin Corporation is one of the largest manufacturers of ammunition in the United States. For the time being, the company is only checking the soil, proposing to send it drawings, apparently hoping that the whole thing can be obtained for free. However, I am more than confident that such organizations are simply not used to losing time - after they were refused, they would probably be offered to sell the development, and not donate it. I think that such a "call" should lead to certain thoughts. The invention of Vasily Ivanovich is really worthy of attention, since the information has reached even such “monsters”. So while our compatriots turn up their noses, these bullets can float across the ocean, although, as it seems to me, Vasily Ivanovich Kacheev is unlikely to provide an opportunity to acquire a new ammunition to a potential enemy. In general, we will think further, we will think more and can stay “with the nose”.

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  1. +1
    18 February 2013 09: 16
    probably go to the moose)))) wassat
    current from moose stays recourse
    1. Hunghuz
      18 February 2013 18: 00
      hi Such bullets Mona and Bradley fill up and Leapard with Abrashka ......)))))))
      1. 0
        18 February 2013 20: 40
        Only bullets will need to be made of something stronger and packaged in a sleeve with the appropriate powder charge. Then it will be possible to fire certain weak spots. Only the accuracy of the weapon and the quality of the ammunition should be at the highest level, well, of course, the shooter should not be holding a shovel yesterday.
        1. Kir
          18 February 2013 20: 57
          Forgive me, specifically, what do you mean by strength, it can be different, you don't have to go far for examples, take the same VK6M, punches and dies do, but try to check it for hardness (maybe I was just so lucky?), fly to hell! Yes, and a lot depends on the distance and speed of the projectile, since the father of an artilleryman in his first (military education) said that the same ammunition fired from different distances at the same object can both pierce and what is called " splash ". And with regards to steel, please, Titanium and its alloys-BT.
          1. 0
            19 February 2013 07: 51
            Perhaps I did not quite correctly put it, I meant the sufficient durability of the ammunition in relation to the strength of the armor of armored vehicles. Tungsten alloys have proven themselves quite well in this regard, but as you correctly noted, there are too many "but" in this business there is both speed and angle of impact ...
  2. avt
    18 February 2013 09: 35
    Well, finally continued! + In general, sending a manufacturer to an examination at a factory is a losing option in advance. Only an independent body can more or less give an objective picture. After all, Izhevtsy gave the new machine for testing to TsNIITOCHMASH, and the airplanes give it to the LII.
    1. +1
      18 February 2013 20: 42
      Well, given the fact that the country has not worked out the practice of accepting such inventions from the population, then how it turned out, as they say. There will be another continuation, but not soon, after March 24 smile If you can get material on the shooting of specific ammunition, so to speak in pictures and videos, it will probably be sooner)
  3. Owl
    18 February 2013 10: 12
    Judging by the shape of this ammunition, the bullet has increased stability not only during flight in the air, but also when it hits the target, when "working" on "meat" it reduces the shock effect of the bullet. Question # 2: how to make these ammunition similar to existing bullets cartridges 7,62x54 mm B-32, 7,62x39 mm BZ.
    1. 0
      18 February 2013 20: 44
      Well, given the spread of personal armor, this is a minus only by 50 percent. Ammunition is created by the usual replacement of a bullet, while in the 7,62 version, you can use the bullet that was originally in the ammunition.
  4. +1
    18 February 2013 12: 34
    Purely Russian modern approach of officials to the new, their head should not hurt!
  5. Yankuz
    18 February 2013 14: 57
    And what will Mr. Rogozin say? In my opinion, it would be time for such a chief engineer as Zakharyashev to be sent ... - to the stall of "cool specialists", for example, to work out the design and testing and implementation of new high-tech panicles for housewives or exclusive nano-washing machines - in accordance with all existing industry standards! And all his specialists like himself - there too!
    1. 0
      1 March 2013 10: 35
      these are all words ...
      how will she behave in mass production?
      how much will the cost of the shot be?
      How much more accurate will the product be in mass production?
      There are no answers, but the results of shooting a mass cartridge and 4 batches of selective assembly, to put it mildly, are ambiguous ...
      I, as a hunter, have little understanding of the scope of 12K ammunition, who should they shoot at? I am sure that the accuracy of this ammunition will be at distances up to 50m worse than a number of other mass ammunition, plus the impossibility of its use in store-bought PAs (pipe-mounted can be self-piercing, but for variants like boar and saiga 12 it will not fit in the store)
  6. Kir
    18 February 2013 17: 03
    I don’t know what about ballistics, but the one who made the bullets either in a hurry or krivorukov is 100%, and the very choice of steel grade U10 is the same we say is not the best option, if you really had to do it at least more expensive alloy but those that are used for stamps X12m, X12mf or recently developed X12fn, or the legendary alloys XN, and the desire to shove Teflon and its analogues everywhere, let’s say the same ......, it seems that developments in the field of new materials oh how long have not happened.
    And the author doesn’t care for informing PLUS!
  7. galiullinrasim
    18 February 2013 17: 05
    I think soon we will purchase such ammunition over the hill. it is more profitable for our officials.
  8. +2
    18 February 2013 20: 30
    Question to the authors

    judging by the scheme, this bullet is sub-caliber. Kacheev developed fluoroplastic 4 to reduce friction during the passage of a bullet through rifles. I don’t quite understand why a fired bullet is coated with fluoroplastic? Explain, please

    Thanks to the authors! As for the coverage, everything is more or less clear. I'm more interested in the new shape of the 12.7 mm bullet, and specifically the issues of bullet obturation and derrivation. In principle, at first glance, it is clear that this bullet's center of gravity is close to the nose, which, in theory, should reduce the manifestation of derrivation to nothing. The tail end of the bullet also raises the question, will it "sail". I understand that this development is being conducted privately, and such questions have not yet been studied by Kacheev empirically, but maybe there are some initial calculated data, modeling, etc.? I would like to know if possible
    1. +1
      18 February 2013 20: 39
      Since I am only the author of the article, I can only speculate) PTFE-4 coating is necessary to reduce bullet friction against air. The bullet balance is really biased forward. The shape of the bullet is due to the desire of the designer to make such a missile projectile that would self-stabilize in flight. Well, something like this.
      1. 0
        18 February 2013 21: 57
        Thanks. The topic is very interesting. There is also the question of how this bullet is doing with the phenomenon of "bottom suction" - that is, the appearance of a zone of reduced pressure / vacuum behind the tail of the bullet. For those who are unfamiliar with such a phenomenon, a similar phenomenon can be clearly seen in water, if you hold your hand in the water quickly enough, a bubble forms behind your hand, the same thing happens with air. But the answer to my question can be obtained only through experiments, I hope that this ammunition will still be tested in appropriate conditions using the appropriate measuring equipment. We are waiting for news on this topic. Thanks again to the author.
        1. 0
          19 February 2013 07: 53
          It is necessary to give bullets for full research somewhere to a specialized research institute, this can only be assumed, and the theory sometimes goes into a runaway with reality (
      2. 0
        18 February 2013 21: 57
        It seems to me that the idea of ​​Kacheev’s bullet is sound and has the right to test.
    2. 0
      19 February 2013 07: 23
      Quote: bazilio
      I don’t quite understand why a fired bullet is coated with fluoroplastic? Explain, please

      I had the same question. Well, at the expense of derivation, I doubt that this effect is present, on a smooth trunk hi From personal experience, I shot ammunition 30-06 Winchester with PTFE coated bullets. Honestly, I didn’t notice the difference, alas. All the difference in price is all. I didn’t get them anymore.
      1. 0
        19 February 2013 07: 51
        Quote: Sirocco
        I had the same question. Well, at the expense of derivation, I doubt that this effect is present, on a smooth trunk

        I agree, but partially, in a smooth barrel, there will be no derivation, but if the ammunition is shaped like a bullet in the form of rifle cartridges, in flight such a bullet (without rotation around the longitudinal axis) will be

        roll over and fly tail first.
        Quote: Sirocco
        shot ammunition 30-06 Winchester c-coated bullet ftoroplastom. Honestly, I didn’t notice the difference, alas.

        Honestly, therefore, I was more interested in the new form of the bullet
        1. +1
          19 February 2013 07: 58
          And it was with a new bullet that the topic "hooked" me, I just started to study swept bullets more deeply at this time, and then such material came into my hands)))
      2. +1
        19 February 2013 07: 57
        Well, there’s also an aluminum layer) In general, even where the increase in accuracy is not necessary, such bullets increase the barrel’s life, and this is also a lot.
        1. 0
          19 February 2013 10: 56
          Quote: scrabler
          These bullets increase the resource of the barrel, and this is also a lot.

          well yes. KTW bullet Teflon coating was also designed to preserve the barrel
  9. 0
    18 February 2013 22: 28
    In this article, its subject itself is perplexing in the light of the direction of this resource.

    WHY the author did not address the hero of another recent article by Topvar, Russia's best shooter and the ONLY private manufacturer of precision weapons in the country.

    If this private owner is not interested, then either the idea of ​​cheese or Russia ...

    Excuse me Karasik Kirill and Vasily Ivanovich Kacheev, the experience of engineer Lebedenko, who "pushed" the idea of ​​the Tsar Tank to help you.
    1. 0
      19 February 2013 08: 13
      Well, a private trader is a private trader, and the state is a state. With the same success you can give cartridges to Olin, as it seems to me request
  10. 0
    19 February 2013 07: 00
    Well, maybe he will heed your words, you need to be a strong patriot so that you receive a rejection of your homeland, not to sell your labor abroad, the Israeli system of shooting around the corner is a living example.
  11. 0
    19 February 2013 07: 32
    I don’t understand why this cartridge is needed at all. When shot from a smooth trunk with buckshot, a person wearing a bronzer will have a hematoma under his chest in his entire chest, plus fractures of his ribs, I. cutoffs of internal organs are possible. And the author as a whole invented a bicycle.
    1. 0
      19 February 2013 07: 57
      Quote: Sirocco
      When shot from a smooth barrel with buckshot, the person in the armor will have a full hematoma under the armor of the chest, plus fractures of the ribs,

      It depends on what distance to shoot. I think there will be no consequences when shooting from 100 m. In addition, such an ammunition can be useful not only for fighting against b.zh. but also for hitting targets behind various obstacles. Also, "In addition, the inventor shot, with a smooth-bore gun, a hunting version of the bullet - a simplified version of a combat bullet of 12,7 mm caliber. ", a bullet for hunting, and its combat variant, it seems to me, is planned to be fired not from smooth-bore weapons, but from a rifled one. But then my guesses, maybe the author will correct me
      1. 0
        19 February 2013 09: 37
        Shooting with smoothbore weapons structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Sp. n at a distance of 100 meters is unlikely. In modern conditions of warfare and K.T.O. collisions with the enemy occur from, point-blank, and up to 50 meters. hi
        1. +1
          19 February 2013 10: 01
          Quote: Sirocco
          Shooting with smoothbore weapons structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Sp. n at a distance of 100 meters is unlikely

          I agree. But this ammunition was originally developed for military weapons

          Here is a lively 12.7mm cartridge. I defined the cartridge as follows - this is not a 7.62x39mm size and the proportions clearly do not match, there are no grooves on the surface of the sleeve. This is not 7.62x54mm since a machine-gun rifle without a groove, with a hem. Therefore it is 12.7mm.
          Well, they created a hunting option based on it. It seems to me that the hunting option was made for experienced shooting, since it is impossible to find and legally buy a 12.7mm rifled barrel, and you can decide to shoot a gun at the last one and try it in action. But this is my opinion, I could be wrong hi
          1. 0
            22 February 2013 15: 02
            This is cartridge 30 - 06, I use it myself hi
      2. 0
        April 7 2013 08: 40
        why shoot buckshot at 100m. from a gun. this ammunition is not designed for such a distance
  12. 0
    19 February 2013 13: 12
    Price? Suitable for a massacre, or only for the elite?
  13. Arhnik
    19 February 2013 14: 32
    It would be nice if the inventor got in touch with Rogozin’s unit, they conduct R&D, which may turn out
  14. 0
    11 March 2013 04: 04
    Depleted uranium arrow-shaped projectiles of this type have been used for several decades in tank "shots" by the armies of all the leading countries of the world. They were created for smooth-bore tank guns, and smoothly flowed into rifled ones in the same place. In combination with the aerodynamic skirt one-to-one repeating the shape of the bullet of the engineer Blondeau and equipped with a shaped charge, they had a very effective effect on armor protection and also an effective over-blocking effect. Attempts to adapt to small arms proved futile.
    But the hunters were lucky - such bullets ("blond-like" with an arrow-shaped element) are made by the French, if I'm not mistaken, I saw them in the store, I didn't take them - the good old Brennecke, Blondeau, Gualandi are shorter from a smooth one order of magnitude more efficient smile
  15. vadimby
    16 March 2013 16: 12
    in any case, you need to get away from stereotypes in order to come up with a new one !! but what didn’t quite work out, or received a negative answer-- the main thing is not to give up, but to think and make shortcomings .. the idea is that is !!
  16. 0
    18 May 2013 22: 19
    Much can be said about the shortcomings of the idea. But the main thing is that the shape of the bullet is not an arrow in the sub-caliber version. The aerodynamic qualities of a bullet are lower than that of a bullet of a conventional design (with the same "midship", the mass is less). The experimental data presented are completely insufficient to confirm the conclusions drawn.

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