From tragedy to tragedy: where is the Russian auto industry heading?

218
From tragedy to tragedy: where is the Russian auto industry heading?
Our Volga


Growth that didn't meet expectations


People in Russia love cars – it’s very difficult to argue with that. Russians are ready to buy cars even in such difficult times and at very ambiguous prices. Our consumer is also quite picky. Characteristic story with Iranian cars, which were never allowed onto the Russian market.



Iran, of course, managed to create a sovereign auto industry, but the quality and appearance of the cars left much to be desired. One should not exclude the fear of competition between Persian small cars and the Granta line from Tolyatti.

As a result, the country's domestic market is at the disposal of Chinese manufacturers. With small reservations, without which it’s impossible.

First, let's try to answer the question - how to provide our fellow citizens with inexpensive but high-quality cars?

In fact, everything is extremely simple - it is enough to reduce customs duties as much as possible. When you find out how much some Chinese or Korean crossover costs in your home country, you just get teary-eyed at the prices at a Russian car showroom. Our popular Geely Tugela costs more than three million rubles, but at home, even in the top configuration, it costs no more than one and a half million rubles.

Duties and all kinds of fees (for example, recycling fees) can raise the price of a car imported from the Middle Kingdom by 2-3 times. In fact, these are protective duties, but the specifics of the Russian market are such that they will be charged at these prices. Therefore, the recipe for the dish “every Russian has a personal car” is very simple - we reduce fees at the border, and buyers simply sweep everything off the shelves.

Currently, the market capacity is estimated at 1,4–1,6 million cars per year. With the abolition of duties, annual sales will easily jump to two million or more. Who would refuse a Chinese sedan with a guarantee and a full package of modern options at a price of up to one million rubles? For example, the Lada Granta and the ancient, dinosaur-like Niva Classic cost approximately the same.

Zeroing customs duties is good for everyone. Consumers receive an inexpensive product, car dealerships make good money on sales and service, the entire service infrastructure is growing - repair stations, refineries, spare parts stores, etc.

There is only one drawback to this scenario - domestic automakers die instantly. Avtovaz, first of all, because it was unable to organize the production of competitive cars. For various reasons, but failed. UAZ will survive for some time on defense orders, but it will also live for a long time.

The death of car factories means not only the absence of sovereign cars in showrooms, but also gigantic queues at labor exchanges across the country. The automotive industry is a network of thousands of small manufacturers working for the main assembly line in Tolyatti and Ulyanovsk. Starting from steel rolling mills and ending with tire factories.

As a result, no one needs such a scenario for nothing, so the state has to balance on the brink. On the one hand, do not raise customs duties, and on the other, try to provide Russians with high-quality and relatively affordable cars.

This didn’t start now, but in the 2000s, when the government brought automakers from all over the world into the country. But with the condition of maximum localization of production. This is how the factories of VW, Hyundai, Renault, Ford, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and many others appeared. Some assembled in full cycle, while others only twisted with screwdrivers.

And here the first tragedy of the domestic automobile industry occurred - the total takeover by imported technologies. Why develop your own design school in Tolyatti if Renault-Nissan will bring everything and teach everything itself. Shortly before the special operation, the French were supposed to kill the Vesta platform and actually transplant all Ladas onto Renault chassis.

The design headquarters in Tolyatti was abolished for a modest department for fine-tuning imported equipment to Russian realities. By 2030, no one in Russia would be able to develop passenger cars and put them on the assembly line.

Call it what you want, but this is an example of sabotage on a national scale.


Lada Iskra. Source: procrossover.ru

And now they have not completely moved away from “mutually beneficial” cooperation with the West. For example, Avtovaz is now preparing a new Lada Iskra, which is built on the sanctioned Renault Logan platform. Only now the French, of course, have nothing to do with it.

It should be separately noted that in Russia it is now very labor-intensive and expensive to create cars from scratch. Estimated costs reach 3–4 billion dollars and require 3–5 years of work. This is how Western and Asian concerns work, which have no problems with access to qualified design engineers and technologies. We have big problems with this.

Estimate how much time it took simply to organize the assembly of Chinese ABS - Itelma launched a plant in Kostroma in July 2023. And they plan to make airbags in Russia only in 2025.

Hello China and thank you


In Russia there is not a single car developed from scratch. Vesta, like Granta, traces its ancestry back to the VAZ-2108 of the early 80s. And even the Niva Travel, which was previously called the Chevrolet Niva, and even earlier the VAZ-2123 Niva, also comes from the mid-80s. Only the model was brought to mind in the new Russia.

Aurus can be considered the only car assembled in Russia inside and out. Only it costs several tens of millions of rubles, is produced in very few units and only confirms the lack of competence in the mass passenger car industry.

Therefore, all the talk about the revival of the Moskvich and Volga brands is an attempt to win over the buyer with nostalgic names and confuse Western villains. Russians are offered Chinese consumer goods under Soviet sauce in the hope that the Americans will not impose sanctions against suppliers. You see, they won’t figure it out or they’ll just close their eyes. For example, the French turned a blind eye to the assembly of Citroen in the Kaluga region.

Of course, everything comes from China and is formally not related to the European office. But who will believe that Paris does not have the opportunity to prohibit the Chinese from sculpting a double chevron on the Citroen radiator grille from Russia. As they say in such cases, everyone understands everything. For example, the Koreans, who launched an extremely murky scheme to assemble Solaris cars near St. Petersburg. This name hides Kia and Hyundai cars, once mega-popular in Russia.

Everything in history is confusing. It is not known, for example, where components will come from when the stocks in warehouses, gathering dust since 2022, run out. Has South Korea really returned to us and will arrange supplies? That seems to be the case. The Koreans and French could not ignore the 60% growth of the automobile market in 2023 and decided to grab their piece. Moreover, the margin on our murky market can be taken very good.

What is the state doing in such difficult conditions?

The movements are very contradictory.

On the one hand, the policy of protectionism allowed Avtovaz to blindly offer cars in the price range of 1–2,5 million rubles, which can only be called wild.

On the other hand, the government is trying in every possible way to pull off a trick from the 2000s and invite automakers to empty assembly plants. This will require labor, and the Chinese will be forced to localize production, otherwise there will be no benefits. Only China is still cool about this - the number of localized production facilities can be counted on one hand.

If everything works out, then we will once again repeat the story of the loss of the design school. Only now Avtovaz will be strangled not by the Renault-Nissan alliance, but by some Geely or Chery.


Who can say why the country needs such an electric car, the Atom, if we can barely even drive cars with internal combustion engines?

We are also interested in electric cars, which cost hundreds of millions of rubles. For example, they are actively working on the Atom platform, which is positioned as “an electric vehicle gadget with wide possibilities for personalization and digital interaction with the city.” A very timely car, to say the least.

In order to preserve the remnants of the auto industry, the government needs a large-scale program of production of new cars. Yes, this will be expensive and slow, but it is extremely necessary. A whole line of frankly outdated cars has no direct replacement. We are talking about the Niva, all the UAZs, the aging Vesta platform, and the Volga should be a Volga, and not a Changan, as it is now.

There is no point in repeating the trick of the 2000s with the localization of imported cars; it is much more promising to remember and reproduce the path of the Soviet automobile industry of the 60–80s, the fruits of which we still enjoy. It is quite possible to do this in 5–6 years, you just have to want it.
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  1. +15
    28 May 2024 04: 32
    question: do we need it?
    what if, in the best case, it turns out like Iran - sovereign, but not very high quality and a compromise in beauty and comfort?
    “thousands of unemployed”?... so everyone around is howling “there are no workers”...
    Isn’t it easier to consciously say “passenger cars are not ours” and build nuclear reactors and missiles? and remove duties and thereby reduce the cost of both personal cars and taxi services...

    PS I have no prejudices towards AvtoVAZ... I would make something inexpensive, of sufficient quality - and you can buy it for a drive, but if a stone flower does not come out, it will take decades...
    1. +30
      28 May 2024 04: 45
      Yeah...it inspired a sad joke about this:
      AvtoVAZ management has made claims against the Chinese, why they do not fake their cars. To which the Chinese replied that they tried, but the cars turned out better and cheaper.
      it is much more promising to remember and reproduce the path of the Soviet automobile industry of the 60–80s, the fruits of which we still enjoy. It is quite possible to do this in 5–6 years, you just have to want it.
      Something is hard to believe... Most likely, everything will remain as it is at the moment:
      AvtoVAZ presented the newest Russian car with the working title 習近平
      1. +15
        28 May 2024 06: 31
        Yeah...it inspired a sad joke about this:
        The Mercedes company bought the AvtoVAZ plant. They reconfigured the production, launched the conveyor... Bam! A Zhiguli comes out! They dismantle the equipment, bring in new equipment from Germany, install it, adjust it, and launch it.!!! A Zhiguli again! They fire the entire plant staff, bring in workers from Germany, adjust it, check it, and launch it. At the exit again - a Zhiguli! Near the plant there is a hill, on which the chief engineer and the plant director (both with the prefix "ex") are resting. They look at all this. The engineer to the director:
        - And I told you - the place is cursed! And all that "hands grew from the wrong place, hands grew from the wrong place"...
        1. +27
          28 May 2024 07: 52
          It’s not the hands that grew out of the wrong place, but the heads. Russia will not have its own automotive industry, light aircraft manufacturing, production of small-scale water transport, mechanization of manual labor in many industries until the party (United Russia) and the Government finally get serious about restoring the destroyed engine industry. No engines, no cars, all kinds. Our industrial motor research institutes have been destroyed, motor design bureaus have been destroyed. In the Government, the Ministry of Industry and Trade and Deputy Prime Minister Manturov are responsible for this direction. Manturov may be a good person, but this is not his specialty. An economist and sociologist is somehow never a motor engineer. He can manage finances, of course, great, but you can’t make an engine out of banknotes. This requires knowledge and understanding of how all this is done. In the late 90s, the comic slogan “let the party rule” was popular. Economists, lawyers and journalists with artists came to power and began to “steer”. This “steering” makes all the people gag. The situation in the country can be corrected by showing these “steerers” their place, and in a technocratic civilization their place is in second or even third roles. So while “effective managers” are in charge, nothing good should be expected, for one simple reason, they are banal accountants with a lack of basic technical education. This is the crux of the problem in the country.
          1. +12
            28 May 2024 07: 54
            until the party (United Russia) and the Government finally get serious about restoring the destroyed engine industry.
            Let's wait another 25 years. Then...
            1. +7
              28 May 2024 22: 36
              And in 25 years nothing will change if such people are at the helm - greedy and despising the country where they have had the pleasure of ruling it! It is unlikely that other owners - trade, construction and other services, will differ much from this character!
              1. +9
                28 May 2024 22: 59
                Therefore, you should not rely on affordable and high-quality cars, services and other “goodies” of vital necessity! Improving people’s lives is not a basic necessity - as the Russian “elite” believes! Over the past 30 years, this has been proven more than once! In winter - basking near broken batteries, in spring - in flooded villages!
          2. +7
            28 May 2024 08: 02
            production of small-tonnage water transport
            To be fair, this seems to be the norm, only the motors are imported.
            economists, lawyers and journalists came with artists
            Athletes are undeservedly forgotten.
          3. +6
            28 May 2024 08: 28
            This “steering” makes all the people gag. ...


            Respected.

            You forgot about Elections 2024.
            87% supported this “steering” because they voted for stability.
            But “Stability is the ability of a system to function without changing its own structure and to be in balance.” (ts)
            1. +10
              28 May 2024 10: 11
              I am for stability too. That’s why I haven’t gone to the polls since the late 90s, there is no “master against all”, and there is no one else to vote for. 87% of those who voted live the usual “life of the stomach”, this is normal for the bourgeois class, this is the essence of democracy, “stomachs” are in power. “Brains” are not allowed to govern the state, therefore we live the life of the “stomach”, then constipation, diarrhea, then vomiting, in some “privileged stomachs” there is the usual banal obesity of the whole body. You yourself know what “powerful thinking abilities” the stomach and the entire digestive system have. So that's what you wanted and you got it, be offended by yourself.
            2. +2
              29 May 2024 09: 36
              What, were there any options?!
          4. +5
            28 May 2024 10: 36
            Quote: 2112vda
            they are banal accountants with a lack of basic technical education. This is the crux of the problem in the country.

            It is unlikely that the problem lies solely in “effective managers”; rather, the essence of the problem lies in selected capitalism, which has long had a leader and master of this world system. Nobody needs a strong Russia, and it is more convenient for our moneybags to make money from natural freebies - oil, gas, timber and other resources, including uranium and titanium (thanks to the Soviet legacy, military equipment was good for sale for this).
            Our boys are bad guys who betrayed the USSR for a bourgeois “jar of jam” and a “pack of cookies”, essentially agents of foreign influence, since theirs is all in the West and with the West, who will allow them to bite the “feeding hand”, and they themselves have no desire get lost in the development of the domestic industry. If we didn’t have a Soviet nuclear shield, they would have surrendered to their masters long ago, but you see, the people and the army don’t understand, they’ll hang them on poles, so they’re being cunning, puffing out their cheeks, pretending to butt.
            Without people's power, without an independent pole of power, which was socialism, we are unlikely to be able to return our mechanical engineering to the proper level, like many other things that we have lost and optimized. This, I think, is the crux of the problem in the country.
            1. +2
              29 May 2024 16: 46
              Quote: Per se.
              Without people's power, without an independent pole of power, which was socialism, we are unlikely to be able to return our mechanical engineering to the proper level, like many other things that we have lost and optimized. This, I think, is the crux of the problem in the country.

              laughing wassat lol Yes, sir, you are a stupid person! Cars in the USSR (late) Volga - Chrysler, VAZ - FIAT, Moskvich - Citroen, ZAZ - Prince .... (this is for people) for the army - UAZ. This is in relation to your thesis about caring for people. Deficit destroys the desire to do better.
              There is no school of passenger car engineering and never was. And there will not be! Without serious state support, it is impossible to create your own plant with a full cycle. Even what is created at the enterprises abandoned by the West is an unsuccessful copy - not beautiful, from bad metal, assembled slapdash from imported components, expensive, + expensive service, + expensive gasoline, + not smart taxes, - disgusting roads, smart insurers. And passenger cars still drive around Russia. This is simply a miracle, and the need to have a means of transportation other than a cart. The production of imported cars with a full manufacturing cycle is the right way, but now only the Chinese, Indian, Iranian auto industry can work in the Russian Federation. Russian enthusiasts do not have the means, the profiteers have no desire to participate in the competition with the auto industry of Japan, Korea, Europe. Time will tell. hi
              1. +1
                30 May 2024 19: 40
                Quote: fif21
                Even what is created at the enterprises abandoned by the West is an unsuccessful copy - Not beautiful, made of bad metal, assembled from a clunker - a mistake from imported components, expensive, + expensive service, + expensive gasoline, + not smart taxes, - disgusting roads, smart insurers.

                In this phrase, you clearly show that all the problems in Russia are because of the Russians, from their attitude towards each other, to work, to the concept of honor of the name, and this from the bottom to the top.
            2. 0
              6 June 2024 22: 38
              Without people's power, without an independent pole of power, which was socialism, we are unlikely to be able to return our mechanical engineering to the proper level, like many other things that we have lost and optimized. This, I think, is the crux of the problem in the country.
              In short, where we are led - there we go. Whoever is in charge - there we go...
          5. +1
            28 May 2024 10: 44
            I propose that Sobyanin be the first to be convicted under the article for AZLK and ZIL. ZIL is a giant that gave way to several automobile factories in the USSR. Thanks to AZLK, ZAZ and IZH appeared. Yaroslavl Motor, formerly YaAZ, gave way to MAZ and KrAZ.

            The recipe for getting out of this situation is incredibly simple:
            1) on the basis (only in the first couples) to bring to mind the 1,8 VAZ engine. Equipping it with an adequate system of phase shifters and a turbine. We will have at least the first adequate motor.
            2) abolish at its roots the entire rotten dealer system. Elon Musk clearly showed how easy and relaxed IT sales can be. Leave one demo room in each city, where people can come, look, touch. But don’t give them the sales function. A separate point about servicing cars under warranty. In my opinion, choosing 2-3 services for a city of 2-3 million is not a problem.
            3) Stop pretending to be someone else and puffing out your cheeks. Yes, it's disgusting, yes, the crown will have to be removed, but it's just a stupid copy. The same UAZ could have re-faced and started producing the same Discovery 4. Only an adequate engine is needed, not this one that always breaks your knee. VAZ should burn the Traveler production line to hell and copy at least the Tiguan1, Hyundai Santa Fe II or Honda C-RV. The UAZ Bukhanka would be perfectly replaced by a localized Delica D5.
            4) THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. If our people don't get it, ban the production of cars with manual transmission or legally require them to be produced in a ratio of 80/20% with automatic transmission. The situation when the Sobol NN with a price of 3,7 million comes with a manual transmission... (only swear words from here on).


            PySy: I advise the author of the article to at least watch the Academician’s video about ATOM from last year. The company is initially building not just an electric car, but also a hybrid project. Where the internal combustion engine on gas (LPG FROM THE FACTORY) acts as a charger.

            In general, it seems to me that it’s time for the Russian automobile industry to forget the internal combustion engine and move towards electric vehicles using hydrogen fuel cells. With our energy capabilities, producing a renewable source of hydrogen will be much cheaper than anywhere else in the world.
            1. +5
              28 May 2024 12: 24
              UAZ could change its face and start producing the same Discovery 4.
              Disco is much more complex than UAZ masterpieces - there are more parts in the box than in the entire UAZ.
              1. +3
                28 May 2024 16: 52
                Road going by walking.

                P.S.: too short and in the opinion of the site administration
            2. +9
              28 May 2024 14: 32
              In addition to road transport, there are many other places where internal combustion engines are used. In 2015, CIAM defeated all the “damned competitors” in R&D with its “epoch-making development” in the form of a UAV with an electric motor and hydrogen-powered fuel cells. Currently, the whole World is groaning from the “victorious march” of these drones in the Northern Military District. Now seriously, read less of the writings of journalists working on the topic of hydrogen and other electric battery engines. First, open your chemistry textbooks, the electrochemistry section, and study the question. It’s only for amateurs with a humanities education that everything is easy and simple, “like two fingers on the asphalt.”
              1. -6
                28 May 2024 16: 53
                Before you give out your expert assessment, first find out my education. And I graduated from the Moscow Automotive Technical School, which worked for AZLK and ZIL. And believe me, I know more about cars than you do... deliberative.
                1. +6
                  29 May 2024 06: 42
                  The “dilettantist” has a degree in auto mechanics, specialty 0523 “Piston and combined engines” and experience in design work at engine factories.
                  1. -1
                    29 May 2024 10: 10
                    Why are we writing articles here then? Forward to the KB. We have a hat with motors in Russia, and here he is scribbling.
                    1. +3
                      29 May 2024 10: 46
                      Prokhor apparently doesn’t understand the meaning of what he read, what can you do, that’s how he studied. Walk around Moscow and find motor design bureaus for piston engines at the factories. The engine industry in Russia has been almost completely destroyed; what is still working is working on fine-tuning imported obsolete engines. In Russia, with piston engines, we don’t have a “hat”, but a “large seat area”. This problem can be solved not by a private investor, but only by the state, since engine building belongs to group “A” industry, that is, the production of means of production. It’s better to remember the political economy textbook, if, of course, you studied this discipline.
                      1. -1
                        29 May 2024 11: 24
                        To talk about a person in the third person and address him is bad manners.

                        Now regarding your speech about
                        The engine industry in Russia has been almost completely destroyed; what is still working is working on fine-tuning imported obsolete engines.

                        I’ll probably open your eyes, but the entire engine building of the civilian sector of the USSR was built on imported serial (i.e., outdated) developments. And all non-naive people understand that the training of new motor mechanics and engineers begins with a thorough study of what is available, and only then offering their own. AND WE NEEDED ENGINES YESTERDAY. Therefore, YES, I not only propose, but specifically advocate for the development of outdated engines. So that you can build and develop your own based on them.

                        Why go far? In the VAZ range there is an injection 1,8 VAZ-21179. Thank God, after 15 years they gave birth to a phase shifter on it and received 122 forces. And even this KNOW-HOW simply cannot hold a candle to the EA888 Gen3 platform. What's stopping you from copying it? Even if you remove from it not 200 forces as now, but 170 forces, but making the cylinders normal so that the pump does not leak, normal pistons with modified oil rings and oil drain channels. When we can localize at least such a motor, all its parts (including direct injection nozzles) are in place, then we can puff out our cheeks. In the meantime, we have the finals of the PSHIC.

                        And in general, reading people like you is painful. One whine. We also wonder why tank builders can’t design a replacement for the B92, which is essentially a deep modernization of the B2.
                      2. +1
                        29 May 2024 15: 29
                        Well, go ahead! As you say, your education is specialized. Sit down at the computer and show how to properly design motors. Good luck.
                2. +1
                  29 May 2024 16: 59
                  Quote: PROXOR
                  And I graduated from the Moscow Automotive Technical School, which worked for AZLK and ZIL.

                  Now I know who participated in this disgrace called a USSR passenger car. I now have a Hyundai Ax35 assembled in Czechoslovakia, full of stuffing. I also had a Moskvich 2140. Well, you understand what I think about you. hi
                  1. +1
                    31 May 2024 16: 30
                    Compare cars from different years of production. Then compare the Roman galley with Arleigh Burke.
                    1. +1
                      31 May 2024 17: 05
                      Quote: PROXOR
                      Compare cars from different years of production.

                      I agree, the comparison is not good. Then compare the "Update of the line" of the Toyota car concern and the Moskvich car concern in terms of time. And how long do you think Toyota's management would tolerate such a disease as incorrect operation of the gearbox when reverse gear is engaged. On the Moskvich, this is a gear shifter and a small, quickly wearing rubber bushing. "Laughed at the flash", and also got to repair the gearbox and replace the reverse gear. And this disease has been transmitted to the 2140 since the 412. Or am I wrong here too? hi
                      1. +1
                        3 June 2024 10: 17
                        Diseases in cars are through the roof. I had a 2141. 1990. The one from the early ones. Awesome car for its time (wasn't there enough air conditioning). The car was made just for the operating conditions of the USSR. Double-piston front brakes with dual circuit. The shift is exactly the same, the lever is from the gearbox. On the highway it stands like an iron. The main disadvantage of the car was (it did not wait for its 2,0 liter engine). Later, an F3R from Renault was installed in it, and the car was transformed significantly. And I also got my hands on Prince Vladimir on the F7R (it differs from the F3R in the number of valves. The 3rd has 8 valves and the 7th has 16. And the difference is 112 versus 150 hp).

                        No one argues that the USSR auto industry lagged behind, but it was completely sovereign. And now it would be better to produce the same Tiguan 1 Restyle rather than this advanced Chinese car.
                      2. +1
                        3 June 2024 15: 14
                        Quote: PROXOR
                        Diseases in cars are through the roof. I had a 2141. 1990. The one from the early ones.

                        I agree that illnesses (design errors) happen, but if the bourgeoisie tried to "cure" them faster, sick cars were produced for years in the USSR. 2141 Decent car. At the end of the USSR, many good things appeared, and a new line of "Zubil" VAZ, a new line of "Moskvich" and "Volga". But unfortunately, in the world of capitalism, where Russia rushed headlong, it was assigned the role of a raw materials appendage. The Russian auto industry was doomed. And with the help of the criminal world, which took control of it, it was destroyed. The state "sat" on the oil and gas pipeline, the Russian auto industry cannot be restored without financial investment. There is no money, but you hold on. hi
            3. +7
              28 May 2024 14: 42
              ban the production of cars with manual transmission or legally oblige them to be produced in a proportion of 80/20% towards automatic transmission

              And why didn’t you like the manual transmission???
              Drive an automatic transmission into our kushiri! This is where you will live!
              In general, it seems to me that it’s time for the Russian automobile industry to forget the internal combustion engine and move towards electric vehicles using hydrogen fuel cells.

              How far can you travel with an electric vehicle? And where will you put the batteries then? How will you extinguish electric cars after an accident? How will you service your electronics? etc. and so on.
              1. -6
                28 May 2024 16: 58
                And why didn’t you like the manual transmission???
                Drive an automatic transmission into our kushiri! This is where you will live!

                Where do you come from?! WHERE FROM? Already half of the auto-orientation teams are performing in their automatic transmission cutlets, and you are with your home-grown thinking of the end of the 20th century.
                Yet again. We are discussing cars in the general civil sector. KAMAZ K5 was produced on automatic machines. MAZ produces Chinese ones and runs fine. Manual transmission is an anachronism, which technically close-minded people stick to. What can I say?

                How far can you travel with an electric vehicle? And where will you put the batteries then? How will you extinguish electric cars after an accident? How will you service your electronics? etc. and so on.

                No comments at all. Go study the topic. First, find out what kind of hydrogen electric vehicles they are and where they get their electricity from. And a living example that has already gone into mass sale is the Toyota Mirai.
                1. +4
                  29 May 2024 09: 00
                  Yet again. We are discussing cars in the general civil sector. KAMAZ K5 was produced on automatic machines. MAZ produces Chinese ones and runs fine. Manual transmission is an anachronism, which technically close-minded people stick to. What can I say?

                  Well, well, tell all this to me, an automotive engineer...
                  And move away from large cities, look and feel the roads of Russia with your whole body!
                  And tell me, the dumb one, which plant of ours produces automatic transmissions?
                  And I can give you a series of lectures about servicing imported equipment when there is a shortage of spare parts...
              2. +3
                29 May 2024 17: 05
                Quote: VIK1711
                And why didn’t you like the manual transmission???
                Drive an automatic transmission into our kushiri! This is where you will live!

                What are you telling Moskvich? They still think that Moscow is Russia, and beyond the Moscow Ring Road there lives a limit. hi
            4. +2
              29 May 2024 08: 08
              I propose that Sobyanin be the first to be convicted under the article for AZLK and ZIL. - are you adequate? AZLK began to die under G. Kh. Popov belay AZLK a little later, but long before Sobyanin

              In my opinion, choosing 2-3 services for a city of 2-3 million is not a problem. it was under the USSR. 1 VAZ service in Saratov and the region. A mechanic could spit in your face, and he would have nothing to do with it... Taking into account the multiple increase in the fleet, if it breaks down, you will wait a year for your car to be repaired under warranty.

              The same UAZ could change its face and start producing the same Discovery 4.
              1) I couldn’t physically - it’s difficult
              2) as a result of point 1, it would cost as much as a cast iron bridge
              3) as a result of point 2, the army would stop purchasing
              Venets - closure of UAZ altogether
              1. 0
                29 May 2024 10: 09
                are you adequate? AZLK began to die under G. Kh. Popov belay AZLK a little later, but long before Sobyanin

                In his own. Destroy two factories for the sake of housing development. The workshops were in place, the conveyor lines and all the equipment were there. Everything went for scrap and demolition.

                it was under the USSR. 1 VAZ service in Saratov and the region. A mechanic could spit in your face, and he would have nothing to do with it... Taking into account the multiple increase in the fleet, if it breaks down, you will wait a year for your car to be repaired under warranty.

                Why didn’t this happen when we bought new cars and had to be serviced by the officials? What changed? Yet again. The laws of the Russian Federation strictly prescribe warranty obligations even if you are not serviced by an official. The main thing is to do everything according to the regulations.

                1) I couldn’t physically - it’s difficult
                2) as a result of point 1, it would cost as much as a cast iron bridge
                3) as a result of point 2, the army would stop purchasing
                Venets - closure of UAZ altogether


                1) no one forces you to repeat everything, but at least the main points can be done. The Chinese are copying.
                2) well, if you put a margin of 200% in each node and 100% in logistics, then yes.
                3) 90% of the UAZs currently entering the RF Armed Forces are purchased using public funds. Don't talk nonsense.
                Crown - are we talking about the plant starting to produce cars for the people or saving a rotting carcass? The HORSE died. Chinese crafts are many times more expensive and people buy them (the Hawal TANK family). Because it’s more comfortable there, automatic transmission and standard equipment includes a lot. Believe me, if the STEALING top management of UAZ stuffs in a normal internal combustion engine with an automatic transmission, a non-screaming transfer case and all the goodies that are in the TANK, it will be more expensive than the Chinese even with this draconian scrap collection. So why should we ordinary citizens pay for presumptuous top management, which we all pay for without even buying a car. Any food product includes logistics, and logistics ALWAYS includes the purchase and depreciation of a vehicle.
                1. 0
                  29 May 2024 10: 24
                  In his own. Destroy two factories for the sake of housing development. The workshops were in place, the conveyor lines and all the equipment were there. Everything went for scrap and demolition. The last Moskvich was released in 2001 - what kind of equipment can we talk about more than 20 years later? Svyatogor was already putting together a semi-handicraft project.
                  If ZIL was still fussing around with its "Bulls", then AZLK died in the 1990s
                  1. +1
                    29 May 2024 10: 31
                    The last Moskvich was released in 2001 - what kind of equipment can we talk about more than 20 years later? Svyatogor was already putting together a semi-handicraft project.
                    If ZIL was still fussing around with its "Bulls", then AZLK died in 1990


                    You either don't hear or you don't see. The workshops were in place. Equipment too. ZIL had its own foundry and was working. ZIL actually worked for Avtoframos, stamping body parts for it. If desired, the automobile cluster could have been preserved in Moscow. Don't tell me what's in front of my eyes. A person who had an internship at AZLK and saw what happened at the plant after 2001. The presses, conveyor line, turning and milling equipment were all in place and working for Autoframos. And they sold everything so that in 10 years they could produce Chinese JAC screwdrivers.
            5. 0
              29 May 2024 21: 14
              Quote: PROXOR
              I propose that Sobyanin be the first to be convicted under the article for AZLK

              AZLK died before Sobyanin and even before Luzhkov. In the midst of perestroika, the plant management decided to dismantle the tool shop and purchase all the products that were made in this workshop externally through tenders, choosing the best and cheapest manufacturers. An average designer understood the catastrophic consequences of such a step; any economist considers such a forecast to be the stupidity of the old scoop.
            6. 0
              31 May 2024 16: 47
              What has the manual transmission done to you, and the program is nothing normal.
              1. +1
                31 May 2024 16: 48
                Purchasing power. People in cities have long preferred automatic transmissions. It's more convenient and comfortable.
            7. 0
              2 June 2024 01: 30
              Everything is correct, but
              ban the production of cars with manual transmission or legally oblige them to be produced in a ratio of 80/20%

              Why do you cut it off the shoulder like that? For example, I won’t sit behind a machine gun.
              1. +1
                3 June 2024 10: 19
                Once you sit down and drive for at least a month or two, you won’t go back to the mechanics. Believe me. I now have in my hands every now and then a Mazda MPV 2,5 automatic transmission 2000. and KIA SOUL 1,6 manual transmission 2015. Despite the fact that KIA is newer, like modern, I prefer Mazda.
            8. +1
              8 June 2024 23: 46
              Quote: PROXOR
              I propose that Sobyanin be the first to be convicted under the article for AZLK and ZIL.

              My former boss told me that AZLK died not after Sobyanin became the mayor of Moscow, but before the mayor of Moscow Luzhkov established himself in this position and had not yet imagined himself to be the master of Moscow. During perestroika, the AZLK directorate read idiotic books on the management of the Western automobile industry and decided to outsource tool production at AZLK. As this was done, the death of AZLK became inevitable.
              1. 0
                10 June 2024 10: 32
                Well, yes. With the arrival of Asatryan.
          6. +1
            29 May 2024 00: 13
            probably in the late 80s, not the 90s
      2. +3
        28 May 2024 08: 18
        Quote: Abigor
        Yeah...it inspired a sad joke about this:

        The CT announcer leads the TV news program:
        Dear citizens of Russia, we have two news today. One is bad and one is good.
        The bad: A major fire occurred on the AvtoVAZ premises last night.
        Good: Everything burned
      3. 0
        28 May 2024 09: 14
        Xi Jinping? hi "" "" "" "
    2. +7
      28 May 2024 04: 52
      Remove duties.. It would be nice. But again, sellers will raise prices to the skies. Regarding unemployment. Well, since we are engaged in protectionism, then the flag is in hand. Manual control - reducing prices for auto basins and expanding production
      1. +2
        28 May 2024 05: 38
        This is an example of sabotage on a national scale.
        And there are plenty of such sabotages!
        1. +8
          28 May 2024 07: 33
          The development of an electric car for Russia would also be a diversion. In cold weather, batteries do not have the same power as in summer. If in summer on a full charge you can cover from ~ 300 to 600 km, then in winter the distance traveled will decrease approximately by half. And it is not only that the battery has less power in the cold, you need to use energy for heating, for lighting. After all, no one wants to sit in a cold car, and the daylight hours are shorter in winter. I think these cars are not for Russian roads.
          1. +9
            28 May 2024 08: 36
            I am more than sure that at the moment electric cars are a huge scam: the production of batteries is not at all environmentally friendly, long charging times, the lack of these same charging stations, and the battery quickly dying in the cold make an electric car categorically unsuitable for mass use. An expensive toy for wealthy people with a warm garage.
            1. +2
              28 May 2024 08: 55
              Ilya, almost everything new is perceived critically by the bulk of the population. The same thing happened once with firearms and tanks. The famous saying (Voroshilov, I think?) The horse will show itself. Didn't show it. The technology is better, more powerful. It is possible that electric cars will also replace internal combustion engines. But more likely in areas with mild winters, or where there is no winter at all. With charging, things are getting better, now there is a way to quickly charge, while you have a snack, the battery is almost fully charged. And charging locations are not a problem, you can quickly build them. I am writing this to you not unfounded, my neighbor has an electric car, I discussed this topic with him a lot. But I live where the winters are quite mild, our temperatures rarely drop below 10 degrees.
              1. +6
                28 May 2024 09: 12
                This is more likely not “new things are perceived critically,” but rather an attempt to force people to buy a product that has dubious advantages, under the guise of concern for the environment. Well, electric cars have not yet reached the mass segment. It seems to me that at present, hybrids should be actively promoted, this will both improve battery technology and give freedom of movement to the consumer.
                1. +6
                  28 May 2024 09: 34
                  Quote: Ilya22558
                  an attempt to force people to buy a product that has dubious benefits, under the guise of being environmentally conscious.

                  I agree here! Covid-type scam of the century. wassat
              2. 0
                6 July 2024 13: 14
                Quote: Blacksmith 55
                winter is quite mild, it rarely drops below 10 degrees here

                That's it! Winter is plus 10, which means the Festool/Protool service center is near you, and it’s easy for you to look at the very same battery cooling sensor that triggers at plus 5 and the triggering of which will void the warranty on the battery.
                Because in lithium batteries below plus five, partial crystallization of the electrolyte occurs, and the battery life drops significantly.
            2. 0
              28 May 2024 18: 01
              I'm not an expert in this matter. But China’s position is approximately the following: “In 10 years, we will produce so many “battery-powered mopeds” that we will practically not need to develop lithium.”
              This was not taken verbatim from one of their forums last year. Again, I don’t know what kind of miracle reprocessing technology is, such as fuel for nuclear power plants, that they won’t need lithium deposits for mass production.
              It is possible that this is really some kind of scam by transnationals who like to shake the industry and then abandon it. But it actually sounds strange.
      2. +1
        28 May 2024 07: 26
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        Removing duties... It would be nice. But again, sellers will raise prices to the skies.

        They won't bully you. And those who bully will remain in the air. Nowadays you can order a car not only at a car dealership. You can already order Chinese products on Ozone and Wildberries without salon markups. You can order from abroad at auction (Japanese, Korean). They'll bring you home! Or you can drive it yourself. There are many ways. But wild tariffs ruin everything.
        1. +1
          28 May 2024 07: 34
          belay What kind of world are we in, what kind of country do we live in? Let the owners of chain gas stations go free, let them compete.. You probably know about price fixing. And about alternative cars.. It’s not cheaper, yes, duties, as you noticed. About all sorts of things ozones .. People overwhelmingly take out a new car on credit. Well, it’s hard to save up for three lemmas with our salaries .. But there is no credit on Valberis-ozones. Although the prices there are not much cheaper. Two lemmas “ordinary” Chinese is the cheapest
          1. 0
            28 May 2024 07: 38
            In terms of credit, I agree with you. Personally, it always seemed to me that it was unprofitable to take out a car on credit. Small interest rates on the loan are eaten up by expensive CASCO insurance.
            1. +6
              28 May 2024 08: 42
              It depends on which loan to take out. For example, I took out consumer insurance from a salary bank and insured the car at my own discretion and at an adequate price. I installed the signal that I needed and, again, at an adequate price. And yes, the first annual increase in car prices offset all interest on the loan for the entire period of use. Nowadays a used car costs more than a new one in the showroom...
              And as for AvtoVAZ, there was “Yaroslavna’s cry” performed by the general director of this company: “ahhh the Chinese are squeezing us out of the high-margin segment!!!” Translated into human terms, they want to sell a cheap bucket at a high price. Bad people (the filter does not allow their other characteristics to pass through)!
            2. +3
              28 May 2024 09: 42
              Small interest rates on the loan are eaten up by expensive CASCO insurance.
              Where have you seen low interest rates on loans now? It's all in the past. Now interest rates, like car prices, are crazy.
        2. +1
          29 May 2024 00: 22
          The duties don't seem to be that high.
          Utilization collection (I wonder what kind of “bright” mind came up with it) raises prices for space
          1. +1
            29 May 2024 08: 24
            The duties don't seem to be that high.
            Utilization collection (I wonder what kind of “bright” mind came up with it) raises prices for space
            introducing high protective duties (like the USA against Japanese cars in 1970) interferes with the WTO. That's why they came up with recycling collection...
    3. +16
      28 May 2024 07: 09
      Quote: deathtiny
      question: do we need it?... isn’t it easier to consciously say “a mass-produced passenger car is not ours”


      And continue to sell oil/gas/raw materials in exchange for goods from the West (crossed out) - East? So we have been following this path since the 00s, since 2014 the first sanctions have been imposed, some of the technology and high-tech goods have become unavailable to us, since 2022 the sanctions have taken on a different scale and now technologies are practically inaccessible at all, and we purchase goods with such markups... what can I even say I do not want.

      Well, let’s say we will continue to purchase goods from China/India in exchange for resources…. Another N number of years will pass, the raw materials will run out, our neighbors’ technologies will be at a different technological level, and what will we be left with? “Nuclear reactors”, “missiles” - China/India are quite successfully mastering them in 15-20 years, we can buy it from them... with the wording, “do we need it” to produce them? It's expensive, it's cheaper to buy.

      As a result, what we have now... we thought that we could buy planes abroad and killed our aircraft industry, soon there would be nothing to fly on, we killed the automobile industry... Now we buy at exorbitant prices, and in 10-15 years, when the Chinese have a complete monopoly in the industry, they will increase the price tag by 2-3 times, and they will say they don’t like the prices? look on the market cheaper (c) + technological development will take place, sooner or later fully unmanned vehicles will appear... and this will carry its own risks, primarily in the field of security at the state level) because what will officials drive? who will control the flow of information? we will simply end up losing state sovereignty, and everything will be controlled by Chinese corporations that will be subordinate to the CCP. (cars, gadgets, the network - everything will be foreign... which will be part of its own “ecosystem”).

      It will be the same in the West, and the world will be divided into the Western “ecosystem” and the Chinese “ecosystem”; it’s only a matter of our place in this future.
      1. +1
        8 June 2024 23: 53
        Quote: Aleksandr21
        Well, let’s say we will continue to purchase goods from China/India in exchange for resources….

        I sold screwdrivers under Yeltsin when instrument factories were still alive in Russia. A good model cost 0,1 US dollar. Now, after the death of Russian tool factories, a good quality screwdriver costs 12-17 dollars.
    4. +5
      28 May 2024 07: 34
      The Iranian auto industry is a child of the French auto industry, their platforms, etc., etc., though already outdated.
    5. +9
      28 May 2024 07: 37
      Isn’t it easier to consciously say “passenger cars are not ours” and build nuclear reactors and missiles? and remove duties and thereby reduce the cost of both personal cars and taxi services...

      The problem is that space rockets are no longer ours.
      Since the beginning of the year there have been exactly 100 space launches:
      -USA: 56
      -China: 24
      -Russia: 7
      -New Zealand: 6.
      - other countries: 7.

      And back in 2013, Russia carried out 40% of all space launches.
      1. +3
        28 May 2024 08: 07
        -New Zealand: 6.
        Theirs, or rather the American (US company) electron, is small.
    6. +4
      28 May 2024 09: 34
      . question: do we need it?
      what if, in the best case, it turns out like Iran - sovereign, but not very high quality and a compromise in beauty and comfort?
      “thousands of unemployed”?... so everyone around is howling “there are no workers”...
      Isn’t it easier to consciously say “passenger cars are not ours” and build nuclear reactors and missiles? and remove duties and thereby reduce the cost of both personal cars and taxi services...

      PS I have no prejudices towards AvtoVAZ... I would make something inexpensive, of sufficient quality - and you can buy it for a drive, but if a stone flower does not come out, it will take decades...

      You have to know how to work. Not a mechanic, but the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and all sorts of economists.

      The Chinese bought Volvo for a crummy $1.8 billion. They gave complete carte blanche to the designers and are moving production in-house.

      As they say, find 2 differences.
      1. +4
        28 May 2024 11: 07
        The Chinese bought Volvo for a crummy $1.8 billion
        And not just Volvo. They bought the production of laptops and later servers from IBM.
      2. +4
        28 May 2024 21: 01
        Quote: Arzt
        The Chinese bought Volvo for a crummy $1.8 billion.

        I remember that 15 years ago there was a murky attempt by us to buy the bankrupt Opel. Our people say that the Americans banned the deal, the Europeans claim that Sberbank disrupted the deal by changing the terms of the deal after its approval (given the very cosmopolitan policy of Sberbank, the second version may be a variant of the first, ha ha)
    7. +5
      28 May 2024 22: 36
      Quote: deathtiny
      question: do we need it?
      what if, in the best case, it turns out like Iran - sovereign, but not very high quality and a compromise in beauty and comfort?

      Iran, by the way, has quite high-quality and comfortable ones. Unlike our "smart guys" from the government, the Iranians did not come up with all sorts of points and localization parameters, but purchased quite modern turnkey factories. With a full cycle. Like the USSR bought a factory from Fiat in its time. And it works! Despite the pile of sanctions that have fallen on Iran, factories that only require raw materials are working quietly.

      But our government, instead of localization percentages, came up with points. And with this, it considers its contribution exhausted. In general, buy today, while some import tax has not yet been invented. No one is going to produce their own.
    8. +1
      30 May 2024 00: 00
      question: do we need it?

      If we think like that, then we don’t need anything at all. Neither the automobile industry, nor tractors for the army and production, nor diesel engines for ships, nor machine tools for mechanical engineering, nor diesel locomotives, nor the aviation industry. Do we really need it? We'll eat a hundred varieties of soybean shit and have fun in the shopping center.
  2. +8
    28 May 2024 05: 40
    to reproduce the path of the Soviet automobile industry of the 60–80s, the fruits of which we still enjoy.
    What is the Soviet way in a capitalist state? A bourgeois would rather order a yacht from unfriendly partners than follow the Soviet way, because he won't get the profit right away, and in the Soviet way, it is necessary to invest, first of all, in various branches of education, then in various spheres of production... with this money, for yourself, you can get so many goodies... Palaces, yachts... And right away... And the Soviet way, getting a profit in 10 years, does he, a patriot, need it? Especially since he himself drives a foreign car...
    1. +5
      28 May 2024 09: 21
      Quote: parusnik
      And the Soviet way, making a profit in 10 years
      This is the western route. From which those same foreign cars are obtained. But the Soviet way of profit does not imply.
  3. +9
    28 May 2024 05: 52
    From tragedy to tragedy: where is the Russian auto industry heading?

    The same place where the aviation industry and all other “industry” are moving.
    Some kind of planned sabotage on the part of the bourgeoisie: destroy all domestic industry, set up banks and exchanges and engage in trade speculation... Not by trading with minimal reasonable markups, making a profit from an increase in trade turnover, but by a stupid annual increase in prices...
    Remember the story with sunflower oil and the sunflower crop failure?
    Most likely, the soil in Russia has become impoverished: statesmen do not grow on it, only thieves, speculators, political scientists and other thistles.
    1. +4
      28 May 2024 05: 59
      Most likely, the soil in Russia has become impoverished:
      "... but there has never been anything good in the enchanted place. They will sow it properly, but something will come up that you can’t even tell: a watermelon is not a watermelon, a pumpkin is not a pumpkin, a cucumber is not a cucumber... the devil knows what it is!" (c) N.V. Gogol. “Enchanted place”
      1. +2
        28 May 2024 08: 10
        Quote: parusnik
        They will sow properly, but something will come up that cannot be sorted out.

        What was fertilized (ideology) is what grew.
        1. -3
          29 May 2024 08: 30
          What was fertilized (ideology) is what grew. in the USSR they were fertilized with correct and good ideology. And where is the USSR now...
          1. +1
            29 May 2024 09: 10
            Quote: your1970
            in the USSR they were fertilized with correct and good ideology

            The people and the Party are united! But we eat different foods!
            This was the ideology. The result is natural.
    2. +8
      28 May 2024 06: 53
      Most likely, the soil in Russia has become impoverished: statesmen do not grow on it, only thieves, speculators, political scientists and other thistles.
      This is the ideology. It's useful to weed and grow thistles.
  4. +13
    28 May 2024 05: 57
    In the Russian auto industry, everything has become noticeable and simple since the early 90s, when the mafia and bandits took over this industry.
    Now every family in Russia is forced to pay twice as much for their car. This cannot be called anything other than banditry under the state roof.
    1. +3
      28 May 2024 07: 34
      Quote: Vita VKO
      Now every family in Russia is forced to pay twice as much for their car.

      Cars are once again becoming a luxury rather than a means of transportation.
  5. +6
    28 May 2024 06: 16
    Or maybe AvtoVAZ never existed, but there was Auto-FIAT?
    Dig up the history, not the auto industry (everyday life), but parallel ones, prerogative directions which the young Soviet country was engaged. For example, aircraft manufacturing, where did they get the leading designers from, remember? They were all amateurs - enthusiasts of their craft (fans). Where did they all start? Enthusiasts from barns and basements, and that's where all the rocket technology came from - GIRD in 1933, the group was located in Moscow, in the basement of house No. 19 (headed by O.K. Antonov). The leader was S.P. Korolev. They decided that the country needed aviation - they found talent. But if they had appointed "appointees", it would have never taken off, they would have picked their noses in the design bureau for 8 hours as expected and went home.
    In a similar way, the country created a missile shield, a space program, and a nuclear program (they say that Beria was an outstanding organizer, he selected personnel very well). There were many directions without which the republic could not survive... so one gets the impression that there simply weren’t enough normal designers for the auto industry, only “gray mediocrity” remained. But they also had to be attached somewhere, and where should the “native blood” (the children of idiotic leaders of all stripes) be placed? And then this Italian FIAT turned up, it’s just a klandike for mediocrity, here you can just be listed as a designer, and not work. Perhaps that’s how it went and went? And now, in the place where AvtoVAZ is, and even nearby, it will not be possible to create something good, you need to start from scratch, just like our grandfathers created the aircraft industry.
    PS, among the enthusiasts, I’ve only heard about Nikolai Fomenko, but IMHO: he won’t make Elon Musk No.
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marussia_Motors
    1. -2
      29 May 2024 08: 34
      Enthusiasts from barns and basements, and all rocket technology came from there - GIRD in 1933, the group was located in Moscow, in the basement of house No. 19 (headed by O.K. Antonov). Head - S.P. Korolev. We decided that the country needed aviation - we found talents True, later on, talent was purely by chance - the investigator was lazy - and they didn't slap him.
      1. +4
        29 May 2024 15: 10
        Dry statistics of “talents”:
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Категория:Конструкторы_СССР
        Aircraft designers of the USSR‎ - 236 human.
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Категория:Авиаконструкторы_СССР
        VS
        Car designers of the USSR‎ - 29 human.
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Категория:Автомобильные_конструкторы_СССР
        Everyone knows the first, but few people know about the second. Even the shipbuilders of the USSR, and even then there are 199 designers, against their background the number 29 (which also needs to be filtered) simply fades. It is immediately clear that the industry was created on a residual principle, mainly stupid/blind foreign copyright. And this dead end for without having my own experience you won’t go far (hello Chinese clones).
  6. +6
    28 May 2024 06: 24
    It is necessary to entrust the development of cars to Rosatom and everything will work out. But it is not exactly.
    1. +3
      28 May 2024 09: 20
      Quote: antiaircrafter
      It is necessary to entrust the development of cars to Rosatom and everything will work out. But it is not exactly.

      Putin and everyone else must be required to drive Ladakh-Kalinas, and everything will work out. That's for sure.
      1. +3
        28 May 2024 09: 33
        It already happened. The late Nemtsov promised to transfer all officials to Volgas.
        1. +2
          28 May 2024 09: 38
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          It already happened. The late Nemtsov promised to transfer all officials to Volgas.

          Yeah...Movie: “What the Dead Man Promised”...
          A good half, or even 2/3 of our officials can be dismissed with a clear conscience. They are neither able to organize nor report on the results of their work...Put it in your pocket - with great pleasure.
  7. -5
    28 May 2024 06: 43
    These are atavisms from the country of the Soviets - they are trying to produce everything of their own.
    Bad, low quality, but unique.
    The whole world is following the path of producing what works best = that’s what they produce.
    All or almost all foreign manufacturers make models on the same platforms, and do not develop each their own, as the author suggests. Money should be saved and not squandered, even the science of economics comes from the word economy.
    I don’t want to look for examples on the Internet, but the first thing that came to mind was Mazda and Ford. Two large companies have a number of models on the same platform, well, no one cries from this.
    They never knew how to make high-quality passenger cars in the RIA-USSR-RF, so maybe it’s not necessary, after more than a century of work, we probably need to learn this.
    1. +4
      28 May 2024 06: 56
      atavisms of the country of the Soviets - they are trying to produce everything of their own.
      You can buy everything with oil Yes no need to bother. In 2 generations, Koreans have come a long way from AvtoVAZ wassat to a major player in the auto industry.
      1. +3
        28 May 2024 07: 02
        Koreans are Chinese who think they are Japanese.
        1. +4
          28 May 2024 07: 03
          But their auto industry is still superior to the Russian one in all respects.
          1. -2
            28 May 2024 07: 19
            Cars are produced in many places, this is not some striking example.
            The country is small, the climate is warm, infrastructure costs are minimal, access to the sea, plus foreign investment. It’s not the Koreans who have become so cool, it’s Western investments and technology that have made them so.
            This is what I’m saying: there’s no need to reinvent the wheel, it’s easier to make a model based on Logan than to spend billions on development and production of the VAZ 2106.
            Take the platform Oh, did our designers manage to come up with a lot of things?
            1. +3
              28 May 2024 07: 23
              Cars are made in many places
              It is worth clarifying - develop and They are produced in only a few countries. Assembly according to other people's drawings from other people's kits is done in many places.
    2. +4
      28 May 2024 07: 49
      These are atavisms from the country of the Soviets - they are trying to produce everything of their own.
      Bad, low quality, but unique.
      The whole world is moving towards producing what is best...


      The Soviets themselves were the Soviet World. Good or bad, they did their own thing: some things were better, some things were worse.
      Now Russia is the worst copy of today's "Whole World". And a copy is always worse than the original, and even a worse copy.

      It amuses me to read the lamentations about the worthless Russian Auto Industry. But no one promised Russian citizens that changes would occur in the automotive industry.
      87% of citizens of the current Russian Federation voted for stability. And “Stability is the ability of a system to function without changing its own structure and to be in balance.” (ts)

      If the population of the country is happy with everything, then the authorities in the Russian Federation are even more so. Until we change ourselves, no one will “change the auto industry” for us.
    3. +1
      28 May 2024 09: 33
      Quote: Architect
      These are atavisms of the country of the Soviets - trying to produce everything of your own.

      And the atavisms of state speculative capitalism are to destroy and sell off the people’s goods, but not be able to produce your own!!!
      There was such a magazine as “Technology of Youth”. There was a lot of everything and everyone there. And the magazine “New Products” talked about new products that they tried to make for people. How much was there...
      Where are those talented youth? Where are the factories where beautiful goods were made?
      * * *
      From a young age one must be taught to think, to invent (where can we find teachers?), but in our country they teach to bend one’s back, lick one’s ass, cheat, speculate and steal...Hence the results.
      1. +4
        29 May 2024 08: 39
        There was such a magazine as “Technology of Youth”. There was a lot of everything and everyone there. And the magazine “New Products” talked about new products that they tried to make for people. How much was there...
        Where are those talented youth? Where are the factories where beautiful goods were made?
        Are you talking about the USSR? Where in the program "You Can Do It!" they drove the most luxurious homemade cars - and AZLK produced the freak Moskvich???
        1. +1
          29 May 2024 08: 43
          Quote: your1970
          There was such a magazine as “Technology of Youth”. There was a lot of everything and everyone there. And the magazine “New Products” talked about new products that they tried to make for people. How much was there...
          Where are those talented youth? Where are the factories where beautiful goods were made?
          Are you talking about the USSR? Where in the program "You Can Do It!" they drove the most luxurious homemade cars - and AZLK produced the freak Moskvich???

          Exactly!
  8. +8
    28 May 2024 06: 49
    When you find out how much a Chinese or Korean crossover costs in its home country, tears just well up from the prices in Russian car dealerships.

    The President called patriotism the main idea of ​​the country. And made our salaries small and prices high.

    Under him, our salaries became less than in China (and also less than in any country that produces cars), but cars became twice as expensive. It's patriotic! Let the world envy us! The same applies to phones, laptops, and office equipment.
  9. +8
    28 May 2024 06: 59
    Here’s an interesting paradox: besides cars, football doesn’t play in Russia either, but the oligarchs invest in the teams. True, football players are on teams. not those who are talented, but those who were able to get into the team.
    1. +9
      28 May 2024 07: 05
      football in Russia
      A football show for the unpatriotic... that is, the population. Well, a showcase of vanity.
      1. +11
        28 May 2024 07: 19
        The annual salary of one football player in the Premier League is several annual budgets of one rural settlement...
        1. +12
          28 May 2024 07: 27
          And instead of one club, you can maintain a design bureau with the same budget, with salaries like in Germany and corresponding work results.
          1. +6
            28 May 2024 07: 28
            And instead of one club, you can support a KB with the same budget
            It’s quite ..
            1. -1
              29 May 2024 08: 41
              And instead of one club, you can support a KB with the same budget
              It’s quite ..

              But the exit will be Skolkovo...
          2. +4
            28 May 2024 08: 30
            And instead of one club, you can support a KB with the same budget with salaries like in Germany and related work results.


            the most important thing is that there are people for this - but they constantly go there... because... here the salary is only for “our own people”, the rest must work for pennies
            There are quite a lot of examples of “ours in their automobile industry.” Of course, there are no such big names as Sikorsky in the aviation industry, but they exist!
          3. +7
            28 May 2024 09: 30
            Here, after all, is another component of the ideologies of modern Russia. "Show-off is everything." That is, it’s cool to support a football club, it’s so European. But for example, building a factory is a waste of money.
            1. +2
              28 May 2024 09: 36
              ideologies of modern Russia.
              When Smolensky bought the debt-ridden TVR, he seriously told the British government that the debts had to be nationalized or the plant would not survive. laughing .
    2. +3
      28 May 2024 08: 35
      Here’s an interesting paradox: besides cars, football doesn’t play in Russia either, but the oligarchs invest in the teams. PTrue, football players are on teams. not those who are talented, but those who were able to get into the team.

      So with us everything is built according to such patterns - “life is only for our own”...
      the rest should look for happiness "on the side"
  10. -12
    28 May 2024 07: 12
    Duties and all kinds of fees (for example, recycling fees) can raise the price of a car imported from the Middle Kingdom by 2-3 times.

    This is the price to pay for greatness and superpower.

    The death of car factories means not only the absence of sovereign cars in showrooms, but also giant queues at labor exchanges across the country.

    I don’t see any problems here at all. There is work for everyone in the Northeast Military District zone.

    And here the first tragedy of the domestic automobile industry occurred - the total takeover by imported technologies. Why develop your own design school in Tolyatti if Renault-Nissan will bring everything and teach everything itself.

    If it weren’t for “imported technologies,” AvtoVAZ would have gone down in history a long time ago. Or do you think they could survive on Zhiguli cars alone, following the example of Roscosmos and the Royal Seven?
    1. +3
      28 May 2024 07: 41
      Why don’t you work in the Northern Military District zone?
      1. +2
        28 May 2024 17: 19
        More precisely, ask from which side this opponent is doing the work.
  11. Des
    +3
    28 May 2024 07: 12
    And what kind of mass-produced affordable car (engines) for the people was created in the USSR, RF from scratch? It seems there is no such thing. All cars (engines) were not ours initially. Western specialists were involved in developing new models. This is normal, but then again it was impossible to make our own. We cannot make (steal, copy, buy finally))) even just different engines (the USSR bought).
    Just look at where Japan, South Korea, and the People's Republic of China started - models that match ours in terms of quality and design, but now they are legislators. In the USA, a specialized company decided to disassemble a Chinese electric car (since it is three times cheaper than a similar one). And it turned out that everything there was superlative, everything was “excellent.” They are shocked.)
    A people's car (i.e., a line of compact\midsize\crossover\SUV) should be a people's car)), let it be cars from the People's Republic). Who needs more and “broader” - it’s different there.
    1. +6
      28 May 2024 07: 33
      In the Russian Empire, they preferred English harnesses, saddles, etc., this was back in the pre-automobile era, peasants made do with their own. The French ones were worse... And you say cars in the USSR...
    2. +2
      28 May 2024 07: 42
      China started with the usual copyright, official and pirated, and then they did it themselves, with the massive involvement of the same Volkswagen engineers and others
      1. Des
        +3
        28 May 2024 07: 58
        Well, yes, they started/are still attracting (still)). And where is the Chinese auto industry, and where is ours? What is the point of your post?
    3. +1
      29 May 2024 21: 27
      Quote: Des
      a specialized company decided to disassemble a Chinese electric car (since it is three times cheaper than a similar one). And it turned out that everything there was superlative, everything was “excellent.” They are shocked

      At the height of perestroika, the Soviet leadership hired Ford designers to evaluate the quality of Soviet cars. Having studied the issue, they reported that for those roads in Russia and for the cost of production of the car, the solution of Soviet designers is close to optimal.
  12. +9
    28 May 2024 07: 23
    "...It started not now, but in the 2000s"
    "...Call it what you want, but this is an example of sabotage on a national scale."

    Well, yes, it was a very successful sabotage.
    And the recent scientific and technological superpower is now trampling naked on its ruins, finding itself in a helpless 94th place in infra.

    The Bolsheviks set the goal of industrialization - the result has not yet been destroyed, despite all the efforts.
    What is the result of the current ones? So that was the goal.
    What is the goal, what is the result.

    "... it is much more promising to remember and reproduce the path of the Soviet automobile industry of the 60–80s, the fruits of which we still enjoy."

    Actually, we have decommunization, with ruinization, which you wrote about in the proposal for deversion. And now decommunization has come out to help the adjacent territory, where it was also carried out. And together they are now doing quite well there.
    This is what a precisely formulated goal does, without these vague “look at the situation” of yours.
    Or did you not hear the speech of the Supreme Decommunizer dated February 25.02.2022, XNUMX? Where he threatened that he would show everyone there how to decommunize.

    Remember A. Sobchak? Who was he to this... on Louboutins.
    So, Tolik had his own movement in the early 90s, when he... gave him a portfolio - “Russian Movement of Democratic Reforms”, where
    Point No. 1 of the program there sounded like this:
    "Russia's transition to a post-industrial society. The approximate period of the transition period is from 10 to 15 years."
    those. demolition of industry.
    Made in our country? Made. Of the 36 thousand large and medium enterprises of the RSFSR, ~ 5 thousand remain, and even then many have been castrated to small ones, and they are basically raw materials producers and primary processing of the level of the 17-19 centuries.
    Small businesses have been destroyed.

    I even remember his awkwardness in 2012-13, when enthusiastic youngsters surrounded him and said to him: “We are the creators of the Sdelanounas website, why don’t the media ever talk about the fact that so many things are produced in our country? We are the website we did it, where we illuminate .... bububu"
    This one... in heels, was already dumbfounded, he couldn’t even tell them anything, although he’s usually so quick with all sorts of nonsense, but he probably thought that he was still missing something somewhere.
    Well, those enthusiastic ones must have grown up and understood everything.
    But they were replaced by others who were enthusiastic, rejoicing at every barge with ore from the Russian Federation, as if it were theirs.

    And here they are calling for someone to restore it, and even using Soviet patterns. I can't stop laughing.

    he clearly said: "there will be no deprivatization!", but privatization has never stopped, it is scheduled until 2026.

    Maybe someone forgot, but even Rosatom was going to be sawed off, on the initiative of the same one whose name is better not to remember, otherwise the bots will come running. He tormented him, he didn’t get off for 15 years, and he kept crawling this way and that, by 2016 he swore that he would send it to auction (shares). Who would buy it? And who buys everything here? And then squeezes it out.
    Society didn’t give it then.

    Society, in Latin Commune.
    Now everyone understands what decommunization is?
  13. +7
    28 May 2024 07: 25
    I look at my Kalina with sadness, realizing that I will never have another car. I will die with her.
    1. -3
      28 May 2024 13: 29
      I look at my Kalina with sadness, realizing that I will never have another car. I will die with her.

      But they grew in territory.
  14. +4
    28 May 2024 07: 35
    Why don’t we remember the “Red Director”?
    Do you remember there was a Red Navy man - Likhachev?
    and how did he create ZiS (ZiL) in Moscow?
    everything was our own, no globalism, the car ended up going through the entire war
    and now who is at the helm of the auto industry?
    “mama’s boys”, just put them in your pockets....
    1. Des
      +1
      28 May 2024 07: 59
      Quote: Dedok
      everything was our own, no globalism, the car ended up going through the entire war
      what car exactly?
      1. 0
        28 May 2024 08: 22
        ZIS-5
        you will say that they were all lost by 1942 - I agree - that “almost all”, but some still saw victory, moreover, in the early 60s one such dinosaur was regularly seen in the yard, it was still alive
        1. 0
          28 May 2024 14: 08
          Quote: Dedok
          ZIS-5

          Zis-5 is a small modernization of the American truck. Localization was complete, but globalism could not be avoided. winked
          1. +1
            28 May 2024 14: 11
            But did I claim that the USSR designed it itself? - No; moreover, it adapted it to its technological capabilities, as did the GAZ-AA
            I’m not saying that the Zhiguli is not Italian, but was produced here
  15. +1
    28 May 2024 07: 41
    The author does not answer the main question - “Why?”. Why does Russia need its own engineering school?

    From the point of view of employment, it doesn’t matter what roots Moskvich has - Chinese or Russian, the main thing is that he gathers in Russia. That's why the government supports the assembly, but does not spend resources on development, because it doesn't see the point in it - because big business doesn't see the point in it.

    Big business dictates to the government what it should do, this is how all modern states are structured. Development is not profitable for business - it is long, expensive and it is not a fact that it will pay off. Therefore, Russia does not and will not have its own automobile industry, it is simply not needed.
  16. +5
    28 May 2024 07: 55
    Quote: deathtiny
    question: do we need it?
    if in the best case it turns out like Iran -...
    "thousands of unemployed"?...

    Isn’t it easier to consciously say “passenger cars are not ours” and build nuclear reactors and missiles? and remove duties and thereby reduce the cost of both personal cars and taxi services...

    PS I have no prejudices towards AvtoVAZ... I would make something inexpensive, of sufficient quality - and you can buy it for a drive, but if a stone flower does not come out, it will take decades...



    Simplicity of any kind is worse than theft, as they used to say. And now: “the simpler the better”... laughing . No... we need something else. To begin with, we need to understand that such a thing does not exist in nature and cannot exist; that making a car, sewing a suit or shoes “does not work”, but making a rocket or a nuclear reactor “does work”. This does not happen anywhere and never.

    Society has become so confused in primitive, basic concepts that it has reached the point of clinical insanity: it does not realize that its problems are simply due to the mass of its own thieves and traitors.
    And he lives in delirium, in a fantasy world in which it is supposedly easier to make a nuclear reactor than a “people’s car.”
  17. +1
    28 May 2024 08: 00
    everything is fine, beautiful marquise, everything is as good as ever.....
  18. +5
    28 May 2024 08: 25
    From tragedy to tragedy: where is the Russian auto industry heading?
    As a preface to the topic:
    "You will know them by the fruits of their deeds:...".
    To understand the cause of the tragedy, you need to understand who benefits.
    The modern Russian Federation is integrated into the global economy as a supplier of resources, and the current government in the country clearly adheres to this course. All major infrastructure projects currently being implemented in the country provide for the possibility of increasing the export of raw materials from the country, or the transit of goods from other countries through its own territory. (This is why industries are being developed to support these industries.)
    What is happening now is a revolt of the local colonial elite against the power of the metropolis and nothing more. And the goal of this revolt is not to gain independence, but to attempt to reconsider the redistribution of income from the sale of raw materials from the metropolis towards the colonial elite. hi
    1. 0
      28 May 2024 08: 46
      To understand the cause of the tragedy, you need to understand who benefits.
      The modern Russian Federation is integrated into the global economy as a supplier of resources, and the current government in the country clearly adheres to this course.


      a strange question, of course, for me - so it’s clear who the beneficiaries are - not you and me
      1. +2
        28 May 2024 09: 07
        not you and me
        You and I are just part of the population living in a certain territory and necessary to serve the interests of the elites, both home-grown and global.
  19. BAI
    +5
    28 May 2024 08: 58

    In Russia there is not a single car developed from scratch.

    Niva, just Niva. She's Taiga, etc.
    And UAZ
    1. +3
      28 May 2024 09: 15
      "Niva" was developed in the Soviet Union. And UAZ. There is not a single car “from scratch” in the Russian Federation. Except Aurus, of course.
      1. 0
        28 May 2024 09: 31
        There is not a single car “from scratch” in the Russian Federation.
        Lada Vesta seems to have been developed from scratch in the Russian Federation?
        1. -4
          28 May 2024 11: 48
          Vesta is deep, but still a modernization of Priora
          1. 0
            28 May 2024 13: 43
            Quote: Evgeny Fedorov
            Vesta is deep, but still a modernization of Priora

            Yes, all this is actually a VAZ "nine". Only the Nine had an engine up to 140 hp, and the Priora had less than 130 hp.
            1. bar
              +2
              29 May 2024 07: 19
              In fact, it’s still the same “penny”. 4 wheels remain the same, nothing new)))
              Sorry if I didn't understand your sarcasm
          2. bar
            0
            29 May 2024 07: 18
            Quote: Evgeny Fedorov
            Vesta is deep, but still a modernization of Priora

            Dear author, don’t be ashamed if you haven’t taken on a topic that’s not yours. The basis of the Vesta platform was French developments; it doesn’t even have common bolts with the Priora.
      2. +1
        28 May 2024 09: 59
        Except, aurus, of course.


        are you serious about this?
        1. -1
          28 May 2024 11: 50
          What's the problem? The machine is fundamentally new for Russian industry, even if it was created using foreigners and their equipment. True, it stands like a cast-iron bridge
          1. 0
            28 May 2024 14: 05
            What's the problem? The machine is fundamentally new for Russian industry, even if it was created using foreigners and their equipment.


            And what are the problems? - There are two whole sentences, but there is no answer to the essence of the question.
            Let me rephrase - what is development “from scratch”? - creation of a car body, creation of a body and main components of a car, or creation of only car headlights???
      3. bar
        0
        29 May 2024 07: 21
        Dear author, if this is sarcasm, put emoticons, for the stupid.
    2. bar
      0
      29 May 2024 07: 23
      The author is joking. I just forgot the emoticons in a fit of denunciation...
  20. +2
    28 May 2024 09: 06
    "From tragedy to tragedy: where is the Russian auto industry heading"
    He is moving towards re-gluing the “nameplates”, and the “nameplates” are also made in China.

    "Call it what you want, but this is an example of sabotage on a national scale."
    Why is the Author indignant? Is AvtoVAZ a state enterprise "to the core"? No. So here we have it - we have capitalism, the market has decided everything. We got what we wanted.
  21. +3
    28 May 2024 09: 36
    The Russian auto industry is a monument to the current government, corruption, sloppiness and impunity.
  22. +3
    28 May 2024 09: 54
    IMHO, today I was going to work and saw that there were quite old Ladas parked near the industrial zone...
    If only they could be updated and released for the people....
    So no.
    Everything is more expensive, more modern, pro-Chinese and pro-European.... so that you can make money, and report proudly, and save up for a BMW or AIrus....
    What price did they once propose to limit for cars for officials? and what is the cost of Airus for officials?
    toto and it.
    1. -1
      29 May 2024 08: 50
      If only they could be updated and released for the people....
      So no.

      The number of victims on the roads has decreased by 20 times over 2 years - from 33 to 15. Despite the fact that the number of cars has increased several times.
      And yes, people why wants air conditioning, ABS and without a choke handle. And this is money...
  23. +2
    28 May 2024 10: 14
    The government did not support the traditional initiative for the Communist Party of the Russian Federation - a bill aimed at combating the Yeltsin Center. A member of the Communist Party faction, Vladimir Isakov, proposed amending the law, preserving the possibility of creating such centers only in relation to heads of state who “ceased the exercise of their powers after January 1, 2000” (Boris Yeltsin announced his resignation on December 31, 1999). In the explanatory note, the deputy notes that, according to polls, the majority of Russians consider the first president of the Russian Federation “to be the culprit of the crisis in which Russia found itself in the 1990s,” and evaluate his activities negatively. The Cabinet of Ministers considered that the withdrawal from spheres of scientific and educational activities materials from the Yeltsin Center “does not meet the principles of historical truth and continuity, and contradicts the goals of creating such centers, including from the point of view of objectivity in assessing the activities of a particular historical figure,” Kommersant.


    In short, everything is going according to plan, we just have little enlightenment wink
  24. -1
    28 May 2024 11: 32
    the author is a little mistaken .. “Granta” and “Vesta” are very loosely related to the VAZ-2108 .. these are essentially Renault designs, and Granta (aka Datsun) is generally the sister of the Renault Symbol .. The last, like, Russian VAZ car , with roots from 2108 - Priora (which is a restyling of the VAZ 2110) ... but purely from scratch developed in the Russian Federation - nothing, even Kalina is still a development of the USSR ..
    1. -1
      28 May 2024 11: 39
      "but purely from scratch developed in the Russian Federation - nothing, even Kalina is still a development of the USSR.."

      Isn't Granta a simplified Kalina?
      1. bar
        -1
        29 May 2024 07: 14
        You are clearly not up to date with the developments of the domestic automobile industry, no need to embarrass yourself.
    2. +1
      28 May 2024 17: 33
      Kalina developed by the USSR? Are you confusing anything? The so-called “platform” may still be, well, the box, in many ways, is tens of years old. But, the body is new and some solutions are from Opel, for example, electric power steering and reverse gear. In mechanical engineering everywhere, all over the world, they try to avoid completely new solutions.
  25. +3
    28 May 2024 11: 39
    Many people criticize AvtoVAZ, but they work and work. The Niva turned out to be a very long-lasting machine; it is still being exported. But they buy it without any pressure. Alive and well. But the situation with Aurus for 35 million rubles is different. In China they are doing something similar and it costs 20 million in our money, well, in Europe they also have it, England and Germany, the question is: why do we need such a car if the imported analogue costs 1,5 - 2 times cheaper and is no worse? So they take Aurus piecemeal and not always voluntarily. And how many billions were spent on this... So there is no need to scold AvtoVAZ, they work and they are on the market, even if they are expensive. This will not always be the case; the market will respond.
    1. 0
      28 May 2024 12: 44
      Quote: Glagol1
      The Niva turned out to be a very long-lasting machine; it is still being exported. But they buy it without any pressure.

      Well, yes... duties on the import of cars, of course, are not pressure at all? Do you think if the duties are removed, many people will buy it for this money, instead of the same, for example, 10-year-old Pajero?
      1. -1
        28 May 2024 13: 46
        If Niva is exported, then there really is no pressure. Or even from the other side.
        1. +3
          28 May 2024 13: 52
          Quote: ivan2022
          If Niva is exported, then there really is no pressure. Or even it's on the other side.

          well, yes.. mega-export.. demand from the former USSR, from our former fellow citizens..
          "The leader in the total share of exports remains the Lada 4x4 SUV - sold abroad 950 cars, which is 37,5% of the total. AvtoVAZ sent this model to Azerbaijan, Latvia, Ukraine, Serbia, Slovakia, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Bulgaria."Europe once did, but a very long time ago... well, it’s really already ancient, don’t tell me...
      2. -2
        29 May 2024 08: 54
        Well, yes... duties on the import of cars, of course, are not pressure at all? Do you think if the duties are removed, many people will buy it for this money, instead of the same, for example, 10-year-old Pajero?
        The cost of the VAZ 2106 in the early 1980s was 1 rubles, the state sold it to Shah for 670...
        These are not duties - "This is different!"
        1. +1
          29 May 2024 11: 18
          Quote: your1970
          The cost of the VAZ 2106 in the early 1980s was 1 rubles, the state sold it to Shah for 670...
          These are not duties - “This is different!”

          Sergey, what the hell with him already from the USSR.. he’s been gone for 30 years.. but! at the same time, the automobile industry existed in the USSR..
          1. 0
            29 May 2024 12: 24
            But! at the same time, the automobile industry existed in the USSR.. FIAT was sold to the USSR - despite the Cold War and other hostile systems, the Russian Federation - Opel was not sold, despite the complete absence of a threat from the Russian Federation.
            The fact that the USSR developed the entire automobile industry on foreign projects/plants/technologies suggests that capitalism did not perceive the USSR as an enemy/competitor, unlike the Russian Federation.
  26. +2
    28 May 2024 13: 56
    From tragedy to tragedy: where is the Russian auto industry heading?

    I don’t understand why the author is making a tragedy out of the state of the auto industry? The mighty Russian Empire, which everyone feared, is being revived, to which the local audience rejoices uncontrollably. But the Russian Empire had neither automobile manufacturing, nor aircraft manufacturing, nor many other ... buildings. There was hemp, flax, wax, strip iron. Corn. Now oil and gas. Traditions though. But everyone will be afraid. Isn't this worth some kind of automotive industry?
    1. -1
      31 May 2024 16: 45
      Hmmm, colleague, deep knowledge of history... are you serious?? Only flax and hemp??))))
  27. -1
    28 May 2024 17: 12
    It’s easier to raze our author to the ground and cancel duties. What they produce now, constantly raising prices and reducing quality, is no good.
    1. 0
      28 May 2024 17: 27
      Where to put 10s of thousands of workers? The author did not provide an answer.
      1. -2
        29 May 2024 14: 10
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        Where to put 10s of thousands of workers? The author did not provide an answer.

        tens of thousands of industries were closed after the USSR and nothing happened, but here - nothing? You see, we have a market and if the products are uncompetitive, why drag them out further at the expense of the people and the state? Let's, for example, introduce duties on televisions; whoever doesn't want Rubin, let them pay exorbitant prices for everything else? Well, then it will be clear why... or maybe it’s more banal - just hiding behind concern and making money in production and on import duties?
  28. +3
    28 May 2024 19: 51
    Let's start with the fact that a country with such vast spaces must have its own transport engineering. But this does not mean that we need to indulge our own manufacturers in everything. As practice shows, they are starting to get pretty brazen. If you want to raise protective duties, be kind enough to lower the prices of your products. As for the development of a new car, it will take about 5 years now. Buying technology for us now will be problematic, but buying specialists is easy. Moreover, they can now work remotely. Well, now in addition to brands, we also need to remember and modernize the developments that exist, 2141,3103,3104, 16, 409. As for engines, it's also not good, except for the VAZ XNUMX-valve and ZMZ XNUMX, we have nothing else tolerable. At least all this is repaired and overhauled, unlike tablets on wheels.
  29. 0
    29 May 2024 01: 56
    Yes, if the leadership had wanted to deal with this issue, there would have been a result, but from their Moscow...Beijing, it became immediately clear that they don’t care about anything, for the mayor of Moscowabad this is just PR, and nothing more.
  30. +4
    29 May 2024 06: 43
    The automotive industry is a high-tech derivative of related industries.....and that says it all.
    bearings, mechanical engineering, machine tool building....these are the pillars on which everything high-tech is built.
    and give you the final competitive product right away. as usual in Russian fairy tales "at the command of a pike..."
    and most importantly, the role of the individual in history has not been canceled. this clearly demonstrated its. and who is at the head of the problem industries? individuals with faces like erased 3 kopecks. no face...no specialized education.
    Russia has not yet given birth to its Elon Mask......or Likhachev, if according to the profile of the article.
    So, gentlemen, motorists, forget about your native innovation, and enjoy the fruits of the intellectual labor of your compassionate neighbors.
    1. 0
      29 May 2024 10: 13
      and most importantly, the role of the individual in history has not been canceled. this clearly demonstrated its. and who is at the head of the problem industries? individuals with faces like erased 3 kopecks. no face...no specialized education.
      Russia has not yet given birth to its Elon Mask......or Likhachev, if according to the profile of the article.


      + 100500!
  31. bar
    +2
    29 May 2024 07: 06
    First, let's try to answer the question - how to provide our fellow citizens with inexpensive but high-quality cars?

    Is this really a question? Fellow citizens are already selling Chinese handicrafts at exorbitant prices, paying huge duties into their own budget. What else could you dream of?
  32. bar
    0
    29 May 2024 07: 11
    Quote: anclevalico
    It’s easier to raze our author to the ground and cancel duties.

    Why else? The duties significantly replenish the budget for the welfare of citizens, for whom a few extra pounds in their pockets burn their thighs.
    1. 0
      29 May 2024 10: 07
      Fees significantly increase budget


      and these are the annually indexed salaries of officials who do nothing, literally!
      the budget is not our well-being and has not been for a long time
      1. bar
        0
        29 May 2024 17: 04
        And from the budget there are payments of indexed pensions to grandfathers, who also do nothing, but simply “get by”
        1. 0
          29 May 2024 18: 14
          So we have been investing in this country all our lives, and now we have the right to “sit and do nothing,”
          Well, about “they survive” - ask your wife - about the grandfathers who work nearby
  33. +1
    29 May 2024 14: 31
    The automobile industry in the USSR-Russia is chronically unlucky... The problem lies "on the surface": there is no domestic "school" of passenger car manufacturing... Everything and everyone in the automobile industry is "foreign"... There are no designers, ICE constructors, chassis-suspension, paintwork chemists. That good, breakthrough that was created in the passenger car industry in the USSR-Russia was covered with dust, on the shelves of research institutes-design bureaus or quietly left for "foreign countries", thanks to bureaucratic stupidity and thieving... And VAZ, it seems, will be "covered with a copper Chinese basin", under the hoarse baritone of Manturov: "Everything is fine, beautiful marquise...."
    1. 0
      4 June 2024 02: 56
      What can you do? The people vote for the VPP. And the VPP likes the work of Manturov and Khusnullin. The first "raises" industry and the aviation industry, and the second imports super-specialists from Central Asia, apparently to "raise" industry. These specialists have already arranged a concert in Crocus City with all the money. The aviation industry has also almost been raised - they promise to finally "raise" it by 2030. The factories produce "Kosmich 3" at 2 times the price of China. In Ulyanovsk, a rusty UAZ "booze" from the factory is sold for 1,5 million rubles. We are waiting for an interesting continuation.
  34. -1
    29 May 2024 14: 38
    [quote=parusnik][b][quote]...I told you - the place is cursed! Otherwise it's all "hands grew from the wrong place, hands grew from the wrong place"...[/quote]It's not clear why a Russian would quote a joke invented by Russophobes about a "cursed Russian city" and "clumsy Russians"?
    Do you like it when we are humiliated, and undeservedly?
  35. 0
    29 May 2024 15: 00
    Quote: PROXOR
    Even this KNOW-HOW simply doesn’t hold a candle to the EA888 Gen3 platform. What's stopping you from copying it?
    Is it possible to start producing the EA888 Gen3 platform using existing equipment?
    No? What is needed for this?
    1. Finding a money-lover investor is an immediate problem. Or take out a bank loan at interest - but this calls into question the profitability of the whole idea...
    2. Develop a production technology (the Chinese got many of the technologies on the ball, but no one sold them to us in principle!) - you need specialists and time.
    3a. According to the technology, order and buy equipment, which is very expensive - a lot, a lot of money and a lot of time.
    3b. Finding suppliers of components, preferably offering reasonable prices, requires more luck.
    4. Install and set up equipment - this is a minimum of problems.
    5. Recapture investments - you need sales, sales, sales...
    And most importantly, copying someone else’s is a dead end for those who are constantly catching up and do not have their own design school. Borrowing technical solutions - yes, everyone is doing this.
    1. 0
      2 June 2024 01: 20
      And what will you do with that engine? You won't be able to sell it oustide Russia. More - you won't be able to sell anything from this manufacturer outside Russia.
  36. -1
    29 May 2024 15: 07
    Quote from Frettaskyrandi
    The Russian Empire had neither automobile manufacturing, nor aircraft manufacturing, nor many other ... buildings.
    Write lies. Everything was there: automobile manufacturing (Russo-Balt, which was actively exported), shipbuilding, aircraft manufacturing, and so on. There was no modern engine building thanks to “Western partners” who very actively interfered with its development.
    1. +1
      29 May 2024 17: 29
      Russo-Balt, which was actively exported

      Are you seriously going to talk about the “active export” of Russo-Balt cars?
      1. 0
        30 May 2024 08: 23
        Russo-Balt was valued for its quality and reliability, but it was not cheap. That is, it was not budget, but at least business class in the modern classification. Therefore, for its class, yes, it exported well.
    2. 0
      4 June 2024 12: 57
      Please name at least one internal combustion engine produced in the Russian Empire.
      1. 0
        10 June 2024 14: 21
        And what? Was there no automotive, shipbuilding or aircraft manufacturing in the Russian Empire?
        1. 0
          11 June 2024 10: 37
          Once again, name me at least one internal combustion engine produced in the Russian Empire for cars and aircraft. When you find out that the Empire did not produce a single internal combustion engine, then you will understand that in fact there was no automobile or aircraft manufacturing in the Empire. The level of shipbuilding can be judged by the fact that the cruiser "Varyag" was built in the USA.
          1. 0
            29 June 2024 01: 49
            The internal combustion engine is only part of a car, airplane and ship. If the Empire had problems with the production of internal combustion engines, this does not mean that cars, planes and ships were not produced. There is no need to pull the owl onto the globe.
            1. 0
              10 July 2024 08: 27
              The Empire had no problems with the production of internal combustion engines, because it did not produce these internal combustion engines at all. Not at all. If the internal combustion engine is “only a part”, then I recommend driving a cart without an internal combustion engine - the same car, only without an engine. Pretty much the same. You will have problems with the cart.
              The ships were produced so well that the cruiser Varyag was built abroad.
              So keep pulling the owl on the Empire. You are doing well. You are apparently one of those who believe and claim that in the Empire all peasants were literate and lived well :) And in general, everyone rode cars around the resorts.
  37. +2
    29 May 2024 15: 18
    Quote: anclevalico
    It’s easier to raze our author to the ground and cancel duties. What they produce now, constantly raising prices and reducing quality, is no good.

    It’s easier to ban the TV so that all this nonsense is not thoughtlessly repeated.
    Prices are going up for everything. And constantly. You've probably heard about inflation.
    And a foreign car is no longer synonymous with a reliable car. Especially budget ones. The quality of foreign cars has deteriorated over the past 20-25 years. And deliberately. Google "controlled wear." The comedy club and other sources of information about the auto industry don’t talk about this.
    1. 0
      4 June 2024 13: 06
      It’s easier to create an undemanding electorate like you, who justifies the doubling of prices over the last 2-3 years. Amazing man-made “inflation” to rob its own population. I don’t know in what universe of “unreliable” foreign cars you live, but Japanese correct cars (even Kei cars) run smoothly for 4 years. Cars Renault, Peugeot, Citroen, Volkswagen. All run without problems for 10 years and 10 there, with normal maintenance.
      1. 0
        10 June 2024 14: 15
        Since you get personal, you catch the answer: the “demanding electorate” continues to ruin our country, and then pretends that it has nothing to do with it. First, “raze our author to the ground and abolish duties,” reduce the tax base, and then be outraged by inflation. First, economically strangle our mechanical engineering, give it a bad press, and then talk something about “fair competition.”
  38. 0
    29 May 2024 15: 39
    Quote: Polite Moose

    The CT announcer leads the TV news program:
    .... Good: Everything burned down
    No wonder Russophobes are gloating.
    Because there is no such Russian TV channel CT.
    And the Russian people will not rejoice at such a strong blow to the Russian economy.
  39. +2
    29 May 2024 20: 23
    Yes, there is no such task to raise something. Steal and leave.
  40. +1
    30 May 2024 16: 17
    I'm sorry, what? after the pelvic deformity...the Iranians didn’t come to us externally? They didn’t come because there was a conspiracy against them... and their cars are excellent.
  41. 0
    30 May 2024 16: 51
    I would gladly buy a new inexpensive domestic "pepelats" (within 200 thousand rubles), but this is impossible, as is the case for most of the same simple "patsaks" and "chatlans". Our "manturovs" live as if on another planet, where they would prefer pepelats in the form of fantastically expensive four-wheeled carts, which they simply dream of making from metal with gilding, with inclusions of diamonds or rhinestones, chairs made of crocodile leather and other exotic animals and stuffed with tons of useless electronics from Musk in the form of electric fireplaces with a video image of a blazing stove.
    1. 0
      4 June 2024 02: 50
      You have been voting for the Manturovs for 30 years and are surprised. Very funny.
  42. +1
    30 May 2024 19: 42
    Our auto industry is somewhat akin to domestic football. They seem to exist, but talking about them is like talking about a rope in the house of a hanged man...
    1. +3
      31 May 2024 09: 15
      When the USSR purchased the production of Fiat124 to produce the VAZ2101, it was the car of the year in Europe. That is, they took the best car, modified it for use in the union and produced it entirely at home. And now they took the worst Chinese car, which comes almost completely assembled, and called it Moskvich3. Car dealerships doubled the price in a monopoly conspiracy. We received a car that no one needed, which is not surprising given this approach.
  43. 0
    31 May 2024 09: 09
    The tariffs increase the price, but the added value of the car dealership needs to be removed. Let the state take the sale of cars into its own hands.
  44. 0
    31 May 2024 12: 21
    It must be admitted that the USSR was not successful in the construction of passenger cars.
    And if you look at the path of both China and Korea, it started from the same FV and others like them
  45. 0
    31 May 2024 15: 03
    From tragedy to tragedy: where is the Russian auto industry heading?
    Tragedy can sometimes turn into comedy, and then farce is not far away... . bully
  46. 0
    31 May 2024 15: 31
    Quote: PROXOR
    I propose that Sobyanin be the first to be convicted under the article for AZLK and ZIL. ZIL is a giant that gave way to several automobile factories in the USSR. Thanks to AZLK, ZAZ and IZH appeared. Yaroslavl Motor, formerly YaAZ, gave way to MAZ...
    Sobyanin has nothing to do with the death of AZLK and ZIL - these are Luzhkov’s “deeds”, the earth is... glassy to him. sad
  47. 0
    31 May 2024 16: 39
    If AvtoVAZ closes, then everyone in the country will probably breathe a sigh of relief. For so many years, despite all the preferences, subsidies, constant extortion of protective duties, the introduction of scrap fees, he manages not to make a decent car, well, at least one for fun, this is not just a Spanish shame, this is a special, Tolyatinsk shame. The management of the plant, the design bureau, and, most importantly, the designers should rot while clearing snow in Siberia.
    Apart from whining and hiding behind the work collective, these... alternatively gifted ones cannot do anything.
  48. +1
    1 June 2024 21: 09
    “There can be no real prosperity in a society until the workers who produce consumer goods cannot buy them.”
    This was said by the father of the first "people's car" - Henry Ford. He said at the time of the release of the Ford T, which a simple worker with an average salary could save up for in 2-3 months.
    What is our average salary? 40-50k? Multiply by 3 months - we get 120-150k. Here's the price tag for the "people's car" for our people specifically. And everything else is from the evil one.
    At the expense of the domestic automobile industry. Almost all domestic auto manufacturers have one common problem - they do not understand for which country, for which roads and for which people they make (or, conversely, do not make) their cars. Somewhere in the depths of their subconscious they have it firmly wired - “we need to make a car so that it’s no worse than in America/Europe.” Don't! There is no need to do better or worse than “there”. You have to do it the way it SHOULD be done “here”. And here you need the car to be SPACIOUS, PASSABLE, RELIABLE and DURABLE. All! All other options, starting from design, color and stuffing of electronics, are very secondary, because they are a product of management and marketing.
    And when our domestic automakers begin to produce such cars, and even with the price tag described above, they will not be afraid of any competition.
    1. -1
      2 June 2024 01: 15
      It is impossible to build car for 1500 Euro. Really. My bike cost more. For 1500 Euro you can have a cheap 50 ccm chinese scooter, nothing more.
      One good tire costs 200 Euro, so how would you buy a car for 1500?
      1. 0
        4 June 2024 02: 45
        It is impossible that 10 years ago my salary was 1500 dollars (50 rub), and now it is 000 dollars (900 rub). This is really impossible :) Our bourgeois capitalist government has lowered the real level of income of the population.
  49. -1
    2 June 2024 01: 10
    Point is - money doesn't grow on tree. You could invest in industry, you have chosen to invest in war. Now you have no access to modern technologies, many of skilled engineers fled from Russia. And now you have a problem. You are unable to build something acceptable on global market. So what now?
    1. Death of your car industry.
    2. You will be condemmed to drive cars based on technology from 90's of even older.
    And you could have nice, modern cars. But you have chosen the war.
    Now save this post, come back to it in 10 years and compare your cars and these on streets of Kiev.
    1. 0
      4 June 2024 02: 48
      Money doesn't grow on trees, but a machine in the USA prints billions of it :)
      There is no need to tell us fairy tales about us.
  50. 0
    2 June 2024 21: 57
    kg/am.
    They have already tried their own special path relying on their own strength - it turns out to be an anecdote.
    the development of electric vehicles is correct - it is probably no longer possible to create a competitive car with an internal combustion engine; we are behind forever. and with electric trains everyone is in the role of beginners.
    1. 0
      3 June 2024 01: 51
      Beginners? Tesla, Lucid, Nissan Leaf, Porsche Taycan are beginners? You have lost at least 10 years, which is whole generation.
      And remember - engine is only part of car. Do you produce modern tires? Airbags? Suspension? Electronic like ABS, ASC, BAS ASR+T? Can You build a virtual cockpit?
      1. 0
        5 June 2024 13: 18
        only 10 years? well, it’s not 100+ like with a Mercedes or Ford. An electric car, oddly enough, is fundamentally simpler than a car with an internal combustion engine - the main issue is with batteries. It is possible to establish the production of lithium batteries, especially since they will already be needed in many areas.
        Tires are produced here, including factories of Western brands. suspension is not a problem at all - we’ll somehow manage the levers. as well as body welding. all questions about cars with internal combustion engines and transmissions. an electric car solves both problems
  51. +1
    3 June 2024 15: 19
    In this matter, it is best to adhere to pragmatism.
    1. 0
      4 June 2024 13: 02
      Please reveal the essence of your comment: what exactly do you mean?
      1. +1
        19 June 2024 12: 58
        Find a way to first get the technology from the joint venture and then rebuild the auto industry on that basis.
  52. 0
    4 June 2024 02: 37
    Fantasies about the Iranian automobile industry are not serious. Iran has made and is making copies of very good French cars. For example, the 2008 Samand is head and shoulders above Priora, Granta and other Kalinas in almost all respects. Samand was not allowed into the Russian market due to pricing. In a country of blackmailers and speculators, in principle there cannot be an affordable car. A rusty and broken UAZ "bukhaL" from the factory is already sold for 1,5 million rubles. No one would pull a small car from Iran for 2,5 lamas.
  53. 0
    13 June 2024 15: 19
    . A whole line of frankly outdated cars has no direct replacement. We are talking about the Niva, all the UAZs, the aging Vesta platform, and the Volga should be a Volga, and not a Changan, as it is now.

    Yes, of course, but China also did not immediately start producing Changan in this form. They copied, expanded localization, and after a couple of decades, Changan appeared. We also have such an opportunity, but our business is based on trade, they do not play for long money. They buy and sell everything they need. Even with an engineering school, you need to change the rules of the game.
  54. 0
    14 June 2024 13: 03
    A car is primarily an engine, just like 100 years ago. There will be modern engines, and there will be cars. If you focus on the domestic market, then you also need to regularly conduct surveys on the topic of what cars Russians need and with what options.