Let's say a word about the poor shovel

35
Let's say a word about the poor shovel

37 mm shovel mortar, what do we know about it weapons during the Great Patriotic War?

On the Internet, all articles about this weapon are only critical, everything comes down to “soldier’s wisdom”: “Shovel gun: digs like a mortar, shoots like a shovel.” Or in slang: “why was she needed at all?”



Let's try to put forward a version of why such weapons appeared.

The most complete article by Vadim Antonov with a detailed description of this weapon and its performance characteristics is entitled “Bad Shovel, Useless Mortar,” July 27, 2016 (warspot.ru).

Here's a quote from his article:

«Military story knows of many cases when the development of new types of weapons went down a dead-end path. This happened at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, when, in search of strengthening infantry weapons, the Red Army was armed with Army The 37-mm mortar VM-37 was adopted, which also served as a shovel for the infantryman. Alas, embodied in metal, it performed both of its functions poorly…"

The purpose of this article is to show that our military experts are mistaken in their completely negative assessment of the idea of ​​​​this weapon. Yes, the implementation was unsuccessful, but the essence was correct - to arm each soldier with a means of fragmentation suppression of opponents in cover at a distance of up to 200–250 m. The subsequent appearance of under-barrel grenade launchers confirms this.

Limitations: all reasoning is strictly limited to the time period from the early 1930s to 1945 inclusive and is based on post-knowledge based on widely available literature.


Introduction


Let's start with the regulatory documents:

Combat Manual of the Infantry, part II, 1928, Voenny Vestnik publishing house, articles 74 and 76.

Short: before the attack, troops accumulate at a distance of approximately 200 m from enemy positions under the cover of artillery and/or flanking (oblique, in the terminology of those years) machine gun fire. The starting position for the attack is at a distance of up to 1 m from the enemy, when the companies of the battalion are deployed into battle formations. Attack - non-stop movement to enemy positions and their capture.

BUP, part 2, Moscow - 1942, Military Publishing House of the People's Commissariat of Defense. Articles 19, 20, 36, 37, 38, 39, 442 and 445.

Short: the starting line for the offensive is no further than 800 m from the enemy, in open areas at a greater distance. At the starting line, digging in is mandatory. The accumulation threshold before the attack is not specified in the document - it is determined by the regiment commander. With the “calculation so as not to suffer losses from the fire of our artillery and mortars.” The advance to the attack line takes place under the cover of artillery and mortar fire. At the attack line, the infantry must dig in until the order to attack is received. The order to attack is given by the regiment commander through the battalion commander.

Information: According to the current Charter, for a combined arms commander, the line of safe removal (RBL) from is a constant value. ▪ 400 m – for infantry, ▪ 300 m – for armored personnel carriers (BMP), ▪ 200 m – for tanks.

RBU - the minimum permissible removal of an infantry chain outside field shelters from the explosions of their shells and mines on the line of enemy trenches.

Some background data (which everyone knows) for subsequent reasoning


The classic infantry offensive from the mid-1910s to the mid-1940s on enemy positions was divided into several stages (we will omit reconnaissance, mine clearance, etc. - these are unnecessary details now):

1. Engineering equipment of the starting position for the offensive (in other words, entrenchment) - not always.

2. Beginning of shelling of the enemy line of defense.

3. Advancement to the attack line - up to 200–250 m to the enemy trench line.

4. The shelling moves to the enemy’s second line of defense and flanks. At the same time (almost) an infantry attack on enemy positions begins.

5. An ordinary soldier will cover a distance of 200 m over rough terrain (it’s hard to call a terrain pocked with shell craters and littered with the remains of broken engineering barriers a flat field) in a minute or a minute and a half: avoiding obstacles plus moving from cover to cover (most often craters) takes a lot of time and strength. Those who ran openly, without shelter, shouting “Hurray! For the Tsar and the Fatherland! For the Motherland! For Stalin!" (underline as appropriate), often did not survive under heavy enemy counter fire.

6. Strong counter rifle and machine gun fire from the defenders hidden in trenches (engineering structures).

The troops faced this problem back during the First World War - the advancing chains were mowed down by enemy machine guns, whose crews were holed up in underground shelters during the shelling. And within 10–20 seconds after the shelling stopped, they took up their positions to repel the attack. The situation was called a “positional impasse” - machine guns stopped any advance.

The Germans found a solution to this problem by creating assault groups that destroyed engineering barriers, knocked out enemy machine gunners and small units covering them in the path of the advancing troops, but could not ensure a full-fledged offensive - due to their small numbers and insufficient firepower (there are other reasons, but their coverage is beyond the scope of the article).

Another solution to the positional impasse is tanks. The experience of using tanks in the early to mid-30s was insignificant; the reliability of the tanks raised reasonable doubts. The generals believed that the infantry should be able to attack independently and break through enemy defenses with the support of artillery.

After the First World War, all tested solutions came down to money.

Tanks are expensive, their potential has not yet been assessed.

Stormtroopers. If money was not counted during war, then in peacetime no country in the world could afford to waste money on training numerous elite units. Each attack aircraft was a versatile saboteur: a marksman, a blaster, with excellent physical fitness, knew how to run quickly and crawl in the dark, and was good with edged weapons.

And most importantly, he had to be a professional soldier, not a conscript - only the initial training took 6 months, 12-14 hours of intensive training. If the army agreed to pay decent money to the officers, then the soldiers’ salary, comparable in size to the officer’s, seemed to the generals a whim - “he fulfills his military duty, what money does he need.”

Plus, the state was afraid of having a mass of well-trained but uncontrolled killers in civilian life: strong and determined guys often found quick ways to solve their material and life problems.

The armies were looking for cheaper methods of solving the problem, allowing any conscript, after short-term training, to be thrown into battle with a sufficient probability of success.

Already from the beginning of the First World War, the warring sides began to widely use rifle grenades, which had proven themselves well during the Russo-Japanese War. Of course, their design was improved taking into account the capabilities of industry - if in the Russian-Japanese grenades only had a remote tube-moderator, since they were homemade, then already in 1915 the Russian Army received rifle grenades with an industrial impact fuse. Rifle grenades are still used by infantrymen in a number of countries.

Their main disadvantage was and remains the impossibility of regular firing from a weapon without first removing or shooting the grenade. Thus, although the soldier has a relatively universal weapon, he is greatly limited in the ability to use it.
During the First World War, light light machine guns also appeared, which made it possible to quickly transport them across the battlefield and create a high density of fire in the desired area of ​​attack/defense. Based on the experience gained, light machine guns became an integral part of infantry weapons.

Military experts, analyzing the situation of the “machine gun deadlock” both during the First World War and after its end, were still unable to give an unambiguous answer to the question: how to cover the advancing infantry from enemy fire at a distance of less than 200 m to the enemy trenches?

Three main options were considered:

1. Arm each squad with light machine guns and rifle grenade launchers, so that the infantry would throw grenades and crush enemy positions with machine gun fire as they moved. But it was recognized that high training of troops was needed - even with high ammunition consumption, it was extremely difficult for infantry to suppress oncoming enemy fire - when shooting on the move, it was impossible to guarantee acceptable accuracy of hits.

2. Move heavy machine guns as far forward as possible, which with oblique (flanking) fire were supposed to prevent the defenders from conducting oncoming aimed rifle and machine gun fire. **
**Hence the appearance of periscope sights on heavy machine guns, when only the body of the machine gun protruded from behind the cover, and the machine gunner himself was hidden from the enemy. Since this device for installation on machine guns was expensive, it was not widely used during the Great Patriotic War. You can't beat the accountant, he counts the money. Therefore, the losses among the machine gunners were significant.

3. Arm companies with small-caliber mortars of 30–50 mm: the mine has a limited radius of destruction by fragments (5–15 m), cheap mechanical sighting devices nevertheless provided significantly more accurate fire than rifle grenade launchers, plus a high rate of fire - up to 30 minutes in a minute. The essence of such mortars is that they can work targeted, against specific targets, directly from behind infantry lines, and not across areas, like divisional and corps artillery, which created a barrage of fire on enemy positions.

As experts know, 50-mm mortars did not live up to the hopes placed on them in the Red Army, primarily due to organizational reasons:

- the mortars were placed under the command of platoon commanders: each platoon received one mortar, which replaced all three rifle grenade launchers of the platoon;

– the mortar crew walked in the general chain of the platoon and were knocked out first, because they were a noticeable target due to their weapons;

– the mortar crew in the chain carried a limited supply of mines, and literally in the first minutes of the battle they found themselves without ammunition. Arranging the delivery of ammunition in combat conditions was a difficult task;

– the fire of single small-caliber mortars hit a very limited area of ​​enemy positions due to the “weak” mine, that is, it was of little use to the attackers.

Subsequently, this error was corrected - they created platoons of 50-mm mortars (4 mortars each), recommended firing only with the entire platoon, and categorically prohibited single fire due to low efficiency. Nevertheless, infantry commanders insisted on removing 50-mm mortars from service and replacing them with 82-mm, as more powerful: combat experience showed that caliber matters.

The idea of ​​putting into service 37-mm mortars, which every infantry squad will have (every soldier can afford this, even modern armies) was the thesis of supporters of the mortar solution to the “last 200 meters” problem: the soldier himself will choose who is more dangerous and in whom shoot first.

Experienced painters who had fought in the war were against arming the infantryman with an additional weapon in addition to the rifle. They rightly believed that in the heat of battle one of the units would be lost, since in battle everything that interferes with rapid movement - “superfluous” - is mercilessly thrown away. And after a battle, it is not always possible to pick up entrusted weapons and military equipment - situations vary.

And the responsibility for the loss of weapons is very severe, not only for the soldier, but also for the platoon commander. A shovel is a standard property; it is conveniently attached to the waist belt and its loss is always noticeable, and given its light weight, few people simply throw it away.

This is how the symbiosis of shovel and mortar was born: a compromise between theorists and practitioners. The theorists insisted, the practitioners did not refuse - they understood everything needed, but there was no understanding of how to do it.

Hence the sad fate of the 37 mm shovel mortar.

The first execution mistake was that they insisted on a large weight of the 37-mm mortar mine - 0,5 kg, based on the principle: we replace the accuracy of the mine with the power of its explosion, hence the inability to shoot from hand (aim), the recoil is too high. That is, it is fundamentally impossible to switch from a rifle grenade launcher to another type of weapon - a grenade launcher consisting of a 37 mm barrel and a rifle stock.

The second mistake was that they used an impact fuse. Hence (as a precaution) the need for a special case-cup for each mine, the need to carry it only in a special bandoleer and other inconveniences when carrying, especially when crawling from cover to cover.

The mistake made was corrected when developing the VOG-1 fragmentation grenade for the VG-44(45) rifle grenade launcher: they limited the shot range to 250 m (they reduced the charge of gunpowder in the blank (explosive) cartridge), reduced the weight (I couldn’t find the exact weight, it is known that the weight explosive 50 g, aluminum body, total weight estimated 300–350 grams). This made it possible to shoot from a rifle grenade launcher, aiming while standing, with the emphasis on the shoulder, without necessarily resting the weapon on the ground.

If we had opted for a remote moderator tube as a fuse, these mines would have been absolutely safe. They could be carried in a duffel bag, which an experienced soldier would never leave unattended, and, as needed, reloaded from it, a portable bandoleer for mines. Yes, a remote retarder tube is not the best solution for mines and grenades, but they are still used by troops in our time.

Let's go into the realm of speculation: Yes, you can’t give an additional weapon to a soldier with a rifle; you would have to add a grenade launcher to the squad’s staff. In rifle units, this weapon hardly took root as a standard weapon, the engagement distance was too limited, painters with Civil War experience wanted to cover a distance of 800 m with any small weapon. An example is the remarkable epic of the adoption of submachine guns by the Red Army, a lot has been written about this from the Internet, I will not repeat it.

But, besides battles in the open field, there were many battles in populated areas. And here the ability to accurately throw a grenade/mine at a distance of 100–150 m into a window or gateway is worth a lot.

If a mine, or rather a grenade, would be made with ready-made fragments, weighing up to 250 grams, the direct shot distance would be limited to 200–250 m (the target window opening is 1x0,7 m), they would be fired from rifled weapons for accuracy, I think , the forerunner of the American M-79 grenade launcher would have appeared in the USSR at the beginning - middle of the Great Patriotic War.
35 comments
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  1. +5
    28 May 2024 07: 01
    The “forerunner” of the American M-79 grenade launcher, as well as the Soviet post-war GP-25, was! This refers to the Dyachkov rifle grenade launcher! It could have been “finished” so that it would look something like the GP-25; and by adding a butt and making it “independent”, we would have received an “alternative” to the M-79 in the 30s of the last century!
    1. +7
      28 May 2024 08: 49
      I’m not sure that anything decent could have happened in the 30s of the last century. The most difficult thing about an under-barrel grenade launcher and AGS is the grenade fuse with fuses and a self-destructor.
      I was very surprised when the plant in the Ukrainian Shostka for the production of fuses was bombed only a year and a half after the start of the special operation.
      A small-caliber grenade launcher or mortar is a fairly simple design, it’s all about the ammunition.
      1. +3
        28 May 2024 15: 32
        What fuses were installed on grenades for the Taubin automatic grenade launcher? On the VKG-40 grenade? And they were!
        1. +5
          28 May 2024 16: 08
          Most likely, it was the problems with the fuses that shelved these projects.
          There were problems with fuses even with cumulative anti-tank ammunition.
          Just take a look at the cross-sectional design of modern fuses and a lot will become clear.
  2. +4
    28 May 2024 08: 10
    It seems to me, no matter how much I read the memoirs of front-line soldiers, small-caliber 37-50mm mortars did not cause any particular delight in anyone. And this is not a theory...
  3. +6
    28 May 2024 09: 30
    A shovel is a standard property; it is conveniently attached to the waist belt and its loss is always noticeable, and given its light weight, few people simply throw it away.
    This is how the symbiosis of shovel and mortar was born: a compromise between theorists and practitioners.

    A strange “symbiosis”, this is how the navy gave birth to a “water-fiber destroyer”, from which the destroyer lost speed and maneuverability, but did not turn into a submarine... Thanks to the author for the historical review, but the idea of ​​such a “shovel” is inherently flawed. Here it is better to remember the idea of ​​rifle grenade launchers, for example, the “Dyakonov grenade launcher”. If they had thought about it, they could have created a grenade launcher for a rifle, or, indeed, an autonomous system, like the American M 79.
    By the way, the idea of ​​rifle mortars is not dead; in the Donbass, craftsmen made an attachment to the barrel for throwing hand grenades.
  4. +3
    28 May 2024 11: 10
    Already from the beginning of the First World War, the warring sides began to widely use rifle grenades, which had proven themselves well during the Russo-Japanese War.

    Despite the fact that rifle grenades appeared at the end of the 17th century, rifle grenades did not exist during the Russian-Japanese War, so they could not prove themselves in any way. There is information that in the Japanese army during the siege of Port Arthur, a certain Colonel Amazawa experimented with such grenades, but there are no descriptions of the grenades or the results of the “experiments” in the literature.
    1. +2
      28 May 2024 18: 28
      There were no rifle grenades during the Russo-Japanese War,

      However, some military historians claim that home-made rifle (ramrod) grenades were used in the Russo-Japanese War during the siege (defense) of Port Arthur ... both by the Japanese and the Russians! It was the Russo-Japanese War (and in in particular, the fighting in Port Arthur...) served as a “renaissance” for the “revival” and mass use of, for example, hand grenades! And after what was said (A) they began to talk and (B), that is, they began to little by little make rifle (ramrod) grenades, “adding a ramrod to homemade hand grenades!
      1. +1
        28 May 2024 19: 11
        However, some military historians claim

        Can you give an example of such statements?
        1. -4
          28 May 2024 19: 18
          Quote from Frettaskyrandi
          Can you give an example of such statements?

          On the Internet, sir... on the Internet! Yes
          1. -2
            28 May 2024 19: 19
            So they blurted it out without thinking?
            1. -1
              28 May 2024 23: 07
              Hmmm...! What dirty tricks are internet lazy people not capable of in order to avoid wasting time searching for information on the Internet?!
              It was in Port Arthur that Russian soldiers first used ramrod-type rifle (gun) grenades. This weapon had an extremely simple design, but nevertheless outperformed existing grenades. The ramrod grenade was made from a hand grenade and a metal rod, such as a ramrod. Such ammunition was launched from the barrel of a Mosin rifle and could fly over a distance of over 50 meters. Even the most experienced fighters could not throw a hand grenade at such a distance. However, after the end of the war, ramrod grenades were forgotten for a while.
              In my opinion, it was published in the magazine "Soldier of Fortune" ... reprinted by "Courage 2004" and many others... Zelensky's ramrod grenade model 1914 is known; but it is an improved version of the grenade created by Zelensky during the Russo-Japanese War ... Unfortunately, I could not find in my “archive” a drawing and description of a Japanese grenade from the period of the Russian-Japanese War indicating the “author” ... although I remember that I once posted it there! A lot of information turned out to be spoiled in “its time” ... but the grenade could be used both as a hand grenade and as a ramrod!
              1. 0
                28 May 2024 23: 58
                In my opinion, it was published in the magazine "Soldier of Fortune" ... reprinted by "Courage 2004" and many others...

                This source is called OBS.
                There is quite a lot of information in the literature about hand grenades of the Russo-Japanese War. But there is nothing about rifle grenades, except for the mention of experiments of this kind by the Japanese Colonel Amazawa. Therefore, the author's assertion is baseless.
                1. -1
                  29 May 2024 21: 47
                  Quote from Frettaskyrandi
                  This source is called OBS

                  Well, you have conceit! And by the way, the information I mentioned was reprinted in “its time” by Military Review (VO)! bully
  5. +2
    28 May 2024 22: 02
    Quite an interesting and detailed article, I even gave it a plus. smile
    However, the author has some kind of confusion, if not “mess”, in his arguments.

    Briefly: before the attack, troops accumulate at a distance of approximately 200 m from the enemy positions

    (RBU) from is a constant value. ▪ 400 m – for infantry

    How to understand these two quotes? We remember that 400 meters is too much even for a 50 mm mortar, and 200 meters means lying under your shells, with your nose to the ground.. It seems that there is no place to use this fashionable 37 mm shovel-mortar on the battlefield.

    The Germans found a solution to this problem by creating assault groups

    There are many opinions that are directly opposite. The Germans did not solve the problem, but dug their own grave. Assault groups are like today's special forces. They were created by choosing the most capable and motivated from the line infantry, then trained them for a couple of months, and then spent them! In crazy night raids on the first lines of enemy trenches. Very media, if we speak in today's terms. All Deutschland newspapers of that time were filled with the exploits of stormtroopers. However, not only the operational, but even the tactical results are almost zero. As a result, this greatly affected the quality of the German line infantry in the last year of the war. The best ones were pulled out and dumped. Those who were left to stand to the death, without the support of their motivated friends, were not ready.

    The idea of ​​putting 37-mm mortars into service, which every infantry squad will have (every soldier - even modern armies cannot afford this)

    Sorry, but grenade launchers are not a problem for modern armies. And 30 mm and 40 mm and now 43 mm (GM-94 for example). A simple and obvious solution.

    But, besides battles in the open field, there were many battles in populated areas. And here the ability to accurately throw a grenade/mine at a distance of 100–150 m into a window or gateway is worth a lot.

    I agree essentially! But exactly the mortar is exactly the opposite solution. The mine flies along a very steep, mortar-like trajectory. By the way, it flies for a long time. Wind, rain, installation errors, charging errors, etc. etc. for a mortar everything is to the maximum. The mortar's accuracy is ten times worse than any grenade launcher. The author is wrong to confuse these two types of weapons!

    In general, it’s interesting, but many of the statements are controversial! drinks
    1. 0
      29 May 2024 01: 39
      They were created by choosing the most capable and motivated from the line infantry, then trained them for a couple of months, and then spent them!

      I completely agree. In the same way and with the same result in 1916-1917. “shock companies” passed through our army, and in our time BTGs are confidently marching.
    2. +2
      30 May 2024 18: 57
      We were talking specifically about a grenade launcher. Its main advantage over the 50mm mortar is accuracy.
      All other characteristics are worse
    3. +1
      30 May 2024 19: 04
      How to understand these two quotes? We remember that 400 meters is too much even for a 50 mm mortar, and 200 meters means lying under your shells, with your nose to the ground
      It’s simple to understand: the power of shells has increased since then.
      In WWI, they also used three-inch guns to fire at positions, now at least 122
  6. 0
    29 May 2024 01: 27
    As experts know, 50-mm mortars did not live up to the hopes placed on them in the Red Army, primarily due to organizational reasons:

    I would like in this place a link to the authoritative opinion of these same experts. Because, as I know, for example, I know that the reasons mentioned are just the conclusions of the author himself, which he presented in a series of rather interesting, but by no means indisputable, articles on the history of the combat use of 50-mm company mortars.
    1. +1
      29 May 2024 14: 32
      Order “On the reorganization of mortar units into battalions and divisions” No. 0405 October 12, 1941:
      “The existing organization and combat use of mortars, dispersed among small rifle units, does not provide the necessary fire action against the enemy.

      Mortars operating alone lose a lot in terms of fire. Mortar fire, which has a great moral impact and material damage, and is not used massively, does not produce the desired results.

      The same fire from a group of mortars, centralized in the hands of one commander, due to its power and destructive effect on the enemy, always leads to the rapid suppression and destruction of him, predetermining the success of the battle of rifle units.
      1. 0
        29 May 2024 22: 18
        Well, explain how you can say that the PRIMARY reason that the 50-mm mortars did not live up to the hopes placed on them was organizational, if you yourself provide a document that ELIMINATES THIS REASON? And write about the same in your own article!
        If the cause is eliminated, why remember it?
        It’s like being refused a driver’s license at the age of 20 on the grounds that they are issued at 18, but you were once not 18!
        1. 0
          30 May 2024 13: 29
          The logic “If paper is fact, it doesn’t work the other way around” is divorced from practice.
          Fact 1: organizational measures were taken precisely because of the lack of the required effect of application.
          Fact 2: the use of group fire improved the situation, but there was a competitor who coped with this task better.
          Fact 3: removed from service
          Refutes with archival documents
          1. 0
            30 May 2024 13: 39
            I understand that you stubbornly defend the version you once liked, ignoring any inconvenient arguments and selecting facts that are beneficial to support it.
            But I would still like to hear a direct answer to the question raised in the previous comment. Because I didn’t see it in your message.
            Best regards hi
            1. 0
              30 May 2024 13: 44
              Put forward your version and justify the logic of past events. Identify the driving forces.
              Give your facts.

              And of course, back it up with documents.
              1. 0
                30 May 2024 13: 45
                I will undoubtedly do this as soon as I have enough free time and am again close to my own archive...
                But not within the framework of the commentary, which, besides you and me, few people will read
                1. 0
                  30 May 2024 13: 50
                  Someday and somewhere.
                  Same position.
                  I've heard it more than once, but I haven't seen any results.
  7. 0
    29 May 2024 01: 29
    Experienced painters who had fought in the war were against arming the infantryman with an additional weapon in addition to the rifle.

    Can you, again, provide a link to the source of such a statement?
    1. +1
      29 May 2024 16: 42
      The source has been lost for many years.
      I am not a historian who scrupulously notes sources. All I need to do is remember the gist of the material.
      Plus the knowledge of my comrades who have personal experience, which is more valuable than archival dust.
      1. 0
        29 May 2024 22: 12
        Sorry, but this is a very weak argument for the author who brought his opus into the space of public discussion.
        1. 0
          30 May 2024 13: 39
          I'm sorry.
          You may not discuss things that you do not understand due to lack of practice.
          Not everything can be published for reasons I respect.
          I know very well how documents are written since the late 90s. And how the drafts differ from the final document as a result of approvals. And the fact that the signer and the author are often different people
          1. 0
            30 May 2024 13: 43
            You may not discuss things that you do not understand due to lack of practice.

            laughing
            To tell the truth, I thought you were smarter.
            Why do you think that I have no practice? I'm really really interested smile
            1. 0
              30 May 2024 13: 47
              I see a desire to make fun. Therefore, this position does not make me want to expand on the issue.
              1. -1
                30 May 2024 13: 51
                Do you get an idea of ​​the degree of familiarity of the interlocutor with the object of discussion based on his communication style? smile
                Very brave. But, believe me, in the vast majority of cases this is a wrong approach.
                1. +1
                  30 May 2024 13: 53
                  Communication style provides material for analysis
  8. 0
    31 May 2024 14: 23
    Quote: Saxahorse


    The idea of ​​putting 37-mm mortars into service, which every infantry squad will have (every soldier - even modern armies cannot afford this)

    Sorry, but grenade launchers are not a problem for modern armies. And 30 mm and 40 mm and now 43 mm (GM-94 for example). A simple and obvious solution.


    Give the staff of a branch of any army in the world where all soldiers are armed with under-barrel grenade launchers