Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse

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Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse

If you've seen the classic film Casablanca, then you know who Humphrey Bogart is. If you know who Humphrey Bogart is (if anything, the best film actor of all time history according to the American Film Institute), you may know the film “Knock on Any Door,” from which this phrase came, which became a kind of motto of very famous personalities such as Sid Vicious, Jennis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain and etc.

And what does this have to do with the “Fighting Falcon” F-16, which is about to appear in the skies of Ukraine?



Well, in general, they, the “falcons,” are already there. Our locator specialists have already seen them several times on their screens in the central part of the country. For now, they are camouflaging themselves among the MiG-29 and Su-27 sorties, of which there are surprisingly many, either someone else shared, or they actually patched up their own and saved it just for this case.

In principle, there is no need to be surprised. They promised that the first F-16s would arrive at the disposal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces sometime in June of this year? They promised. And, by the way, this is not the first time this reprise is played in the West when the supply of any weapons officially announced a couple of days after it is already being used with might and main in battles. It's like, "Oh yeah, we staged this."

Therefore, I would not be at all surprised by the presence of F-16s in the skies of Ukraine; moreover, I am sure that the people sitting in the cockpits of the planes are not Ukrainians at all. Well, simply because you don’t need to do PR, but do business. And after six months of training, Ukrainian pilots—forgive me, it’s like sitting at the controls of a Yak in bad times after 4 hours of flight time at a flying club.

Well, you all understand the analogy.

Therefore, there is such confidence that what is on the air is not language, but something else. And at airfields too, because teaching an experienced pilot to fly according to the analogies of his service is one thing, but with technicians and engineers, especially in radio electronics, excuse me, everything is according to Stanislavsky. That is, I can’t believe it at all. It’s not the Ukrainians who are bustling around there, preparing the Falcons for flight.

In general, I just want to quote the song: “Where the hell have you gone, sir?”


The Sokol's combat path since 1978 has been long and thorny, with the role of thorns mainly played by missiles Soviet production. Then the list became longer, but the F-16 somehow survived to our times, albeit not as the leading aircraft of the US Air Force, inspiring fear in everything flying. So, a solid middle-of-the-roader. Even if in many ways it is “the most” - the most widespread of the fourth generation, the most popular in the world (25 countries), and so on.

There were, of course, interesting moments of various kinds in the career of this generally wonderful aircraft; it was even “Russian”.


In fact, everything looks more like some kind of flying madhouse: an F-16 that was never in service fleet, in the photographs with the proud inscription NAVY on the fuselages also bears the identification marks of the Russian Aerospace Forces (though with a Chinese flavor) and even side numbers in the right places.


In fact, this is a direct illustration of today’s day here, not far away, three hundred kilometers from me.

If you show interest, this aircraft was called in reference books as F-16N. Based on the F-16 Block 30, with “some differences.” But there are differences - my dear mother, it’s really a different plane.

Completely unsuitable for air combat. More precisely, adapted, but for educational purposes. It initially lacked a cannon and ammunition, which had to be compensated for with ballast, and there was no electrical wiring necessary for launching missiles and dropping bombs.

All this plane could do was just fly, pretending to be a Russian plane.

Yes, everything is correct: the Aggressor squadron of the same Top Gun school, more precisely, Fighter weapons school. Only they were not flown by Tom Cruise's fellow Hollywood pilots, but by more prosaic pilots aviation US Navy. Experienced aces taught their colleagues by imitating Russian aircraft.


And now “Falcon” has become sort of Ukrainian. With approximately the same degree of combat readiness, because one can speculate for a long time, but there is no doubt that the Su-35 will eat it without butter for breakfast.

But no one will throw the hard-earned F-16s into a dog dump with Russian fighters. That's not why they asked, if that's the case.

It is very difficult to say who and how trained Ukrainian pilots and technicians for the F-16, but even with “imported” personnel everything will not be as luxurious as Kyiv would like.

Zelensky has said more than once that in order to repel the aggressor, the Ukrainian Armed Forces must receive 120-130 aircraft. It’s clear that no one will give that much; Europe simply doesn’t have that many “Falcons” to take away. Because they will give something and first they will very carefully observe what comes out of all this. So that it doesn’t work out like with German howitzers and American tanks. The plane is even more expensive, and besides, the F-16 is still produced to order for third-tier countries, so there’s no point in spoiling the image of the best plane.

Naturally, they will look at how “Ukrainian” pilots fly and how “Ukrainian” mechanics work. But if these problems are solved with the help of mercenaries, then some other problems will not be easy to solve.

F-16s need “their own” runways. The runway, created according to USSR standards, was very different (not for the better) from the ideal runway surface of the American Air Force. That’s why in all our design bureaus we worked on the landing gear, for which gaps in the concrete runway slabs are of no concern (and they cannot be made due to significant temperature changes throughout almost the entire territory of the country), unlike the Americans, who can afford to build ideal runways, in no way inferior in smoothness to the decks of aircraft carriers.


No, well done, of course, they wiped the noses of the Russians, but either the MiG-29 or the Su-27 - they can land where they need to, and not where they can. But there is no such confidence about American aircraft. Here we can recall a historical example when, after the end of the Vietnam War, a copy of the F-5E Tiger fell into the hands of Soviet specialists. The car is generally new, even if it’s not top-of-the-line: the “Tigers” were systematically torn off by their fangs in the skies of Vietnam.


F-5E Tiger at the LNII test airfield in Akhtubinsk

The Tiger fell into the hands of testers who began to study it. But it was not possible to fly around in full: after the fifth or sixth flight, the landing gear miraculously did not break. It turned out that landings on our runways tore the slots in the struts out of the car.

It is very difficult to say in what condition the majority of Ukrainian airfields are today and what the runways there are like. But something tells me that the maximum is a C grade.

But the Falcon requires not only an even, but also a perfectly clean runway. The low location of the air intakes is not conducive to takeoffs on a dirty runway; this can end in trouble for everyone.

Fuel. Here, in general, the song is swearing under the bandura, because what the MiG-29 and Su-27 of the Ukrainian Air Force flew on, that is, T-6 or T-8B aviation fuel, are very different from the American JP8. Moreover, it is doubtful, or rather, there is confidence, that the remnants of Ukrainian industry can master the production of JP8 and its unpleasant component, hydrazine, which must be stored separately.

That is, only imports will help Ukrainian pilots. Here, of course, everything is in order so far, and the good Americans will most likely bring, say, from Poland or Romania a sufficient amount of this fuel. But if changes begin, first of all, in the approaches of the Russian army in terms of striking logistics hubs, then fireworks from burning tanks with aviation kerosene may become a kind of slogan “Fly away.”

In addition to semi-sterile runways, Falcons will need hangars, storage facilities for fuel and its toxic component hydrazine. Of course, it’s not worth even trying to talk about such work in accordance with NATO standards, but it still requires time and money.

And one last thing. An American-made fourth-generation fighter is not the D-30 or the BMP-1. Yes, in some ways it is almost the same age as them, but the aircraft, unlike simpler weapons systems, requires specialized service centers. A modern aircraft, unfortunately, requires maintenance after each flight and adjustment of on-board systems. And sometimes even replacement of some equipment units. Here it is worth reading about the hellish efforts with which Poland joined NATO, how the Poles switched from Soviet to Western technology.

Yes, of course, in today’s conditions one can not give a damn about NATO instructions on aircraft maintenance, but... it will simply reduce the already small service life of the transferred aircraft. If they were Danish, they were still preparing for decommissioning, so they didn’t have much time left to fly. Yes, in principle, the situation is exactly the same with others. No one would part with such an expensive weapon as an airplane without getting the most out of it.

In general, most sane experts agree that the appearance of the F-16 in the Ukrainian Armed Forces is unlikely to radically change the situation on the battlefield in favor of the Kyiv regime.

Of course, the Falcons can be very, very useful in intercepting targets such as cruise missiles, since the latter do not have the same speed as, say, their super and hypersonic counterparts. Well, dropping missiles like Storm Shadow from a relatively safe distance.

But we won’t see dashing air battles with the same Su-30s and especially Su-35s. Airplanes of different classes and flying a light fighter under a Russian plane that can see further and fire missiles over long distances is nonsense. It’s clear, a catapult, a parachute, a support propeller wing – that’s all yes. And if we add to this the Russian radars, which perfectly see more than half of the airspace of Ukraine, and even add to them the radars on the territory of Belarus...

And without even touching on air defense systems like “Buk”, “Thor”, “Osa”, “Pantsir”, it’s just enough to remind you that we still have enough S-300 and S-400. And it is precisely these air defense systems that pose the greatest danger to American aircraft, which, we are so sure, will not fly to the front line in the thick of it.

This means we will have to work in this direction. As they say, if the mountain does not come to Mohammed...

In fact, let's see how things are going with those models of equipment on which Kyiv had such high hopes?

Where is the self-propelled gun Pz.2000? Not much with them, many are under repair, some are all gone.
Where are the Leopards? No comments at all.
Where are the Challengers? They mostly hang around in the rear; somehow they didn’t make it to the front line.
"Abrams"? Yes, too.


We could go on for a long time, but the essence is the same: samples of European and American weapons that fall into the millstones of the war in Ukraine are regularly ground. It couldn’t be otherwise; moreover, most likely, they will start hunting for the F-16 with passion and passion, just as they chased the Leopards and Abrams.

It's not about the prize money at all. No, of course, awards are not bad, but a crippled menagerie in Moscow is no worse. At least as an action to demonstrate the successes of the Russian army, it was beyond praise. The Ministry of Defense has learned how to put on a show.

The F-16, due to many reasons, is doomed to just such an ending. It is not so important what will cause the “fall of Lucifer”; air defense systems, untrained pilots, crooked mechanics and untrained engineers; the work of the Aerospace Forces or missile forces of the future in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has nothing. Everything that falls into the possession of the Ukrainian military will sooner or later be destroyed.

And this raises much less doubt than the future of the F-16 in the service of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.


So the motto “Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse” is very vital. And beautiful corpses will be useful for exhibitions on Poklonnaya Hill and in Patriot parks.
211 comments
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  1. + 34
    28 May 2024 04: 29
    It turned out that landings on our runways tore the slots in the struts out of the car.
    belay Guys, the splines can only be crushed. request A cotter pin can be pulled out or a key cut off. request hi And I suspect there are no latches on the racks.
    1. +1
      28 May 2024 05: 03
      "Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse"
      Motto of the Maidan Litak crying
      1. -1
        2 June 2024 14: 40
        There was such an anti-Russian entity - GUAM - Georgia, Ukraine, Armenia, Moldova. After Georgia received a slap in the face, GUAM was forgotten. And now, against the backdrop of the war in Ukraine, they are again trying to revive this GUAM. Hence the events in Georgia, Moldova, Armenia...
    2. + 23
      28 May 2024 05: 56
      The splines can also be completely cut off. I’m telling you this as a mechanical engineer. wink
      1. + 13
        28 May 2024 06: 07
        And they can also be rolled up and, in general, you can pick up many synonyms for this.
        1. +3
          28 May 2024 07: 36
          Quote: Popuas
          And they can also roll up and, in general, you can pick up many synonyms for this.
          fool Rather gouge and ruin it. request
          Synonyms are in the auto repair shop, there they carry not only shades of performance (emotions, memories of painful sensations), but also the attitude of the performer to the consumer. And in technology, only terms that have a specific meaning. request hiThank you for the reason to joke.
      2. -5
        28 May 2024 07: 28
        Quote: Declarant
        The splines may also be quite cut it off anyway. I’m telling you this as a mechanical engineer. wink

        Sit down, deuce. Only in theory, calculations are also made for shearing if the height of the slot is greater than its width. I’m telling you this as a design engineer. 1980 spill. hi
        1. +5
          28 May 2024 09: 55
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          Sit down, deuce. Only in theory, calculations are also made for shearing if the height of the slot is greater than its width. I’m telling you this as a design engineer. 1980 spill.

          There is no steel that would not be “miraculously” broken!))) Theory is theory, calculations are calculations, but in fact it cuts them off, and very often.
        2. man
          +4
          28 May 2024 11: 01
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          Quote: Declarant
          The splines may also be quite cut it off anyway. I’m telling you this as a mechanical engineer. wink

          Sit down, deuce. Only in theory, calculations are also made for shearing if the height of the slot is greater than its width. I’m telling you this as a design engineer. 1980 spill. hi

          I don’t even know what a slot is, though I can guess request smile .I’m telling you this as a systems engineer. 1975 spill smile hi
          1. + 13
            28 May 2024 19: 52
            Me!! Me!! I know!!! A slot is a cut in the middle of a tablet, so that when a patient can't swallow it, it can be screwed in rectally with a screwdriver... The same thing on screw heads... I'm speaking as a vocational school graduate from 90... But what does this have to do with airplanes, I don't know.
            1. man
              +4
              28 May 2024 20: 51
              Quote: Doc1272
              Me!! Me!! I know!!! A slot is a cut in the middle of a tablet, so that when a patient can't swallow it, it can be screwed in rectally with a screwdriver... The same thing on screw heads... I'm speaking as a vocational school graduate from 90... But what does this have to do with airplanes, I don't know.

              I don’t understand whether you graduated from a medical vocational school or a mechanical one, but you have a good sense of humor smile
              1. +2
                28 May 2024 21: 02
                SPTU 15, St. Petersburg. Ship's carpenter. ))) and a former military doctor told me about the pills in 96. He also had that kind of humor))) black, like that of an African American in a place where the sun never shines..
    3. +7
      28 May 2024 08: 59
      There are no slots cut off
      It turned out that he was dissatisfied with the quality of our runway - the seams were too deep and the surface of the concrete slabs was damaged. Could not resist. One bolt was cut off, and the cylinder rod and wheel rotated 360°. - Beautiful! This doesn’t happen with ours,” I patted the stranger “on the nose” and whispered “in his ear”: “Don’t worry, now they’ll insert such a bolt into you - you’ll be galloping across the steppe!”
    4. +5
      28 May 2024 09: 50
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Guys, the splines can only be crushed. request The cotter pin can be pulled out or the key cut off.

      Cuts these slots once or twice!
    5. +6
      28 May 2024 10: 57
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      It turned out that landings on our runways tore the slots in the struts out of the car.
      belay Guys, the splines can only be crushed. The cotter pin can be pulled out, the key can be cut off

      In fact, in addition to testing, the F-5 also had training air battles against the MiG-21 and MiG-23.
      1. +5
        28 May 2024 13: 14
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        In fact, in addition to testing, the F-5 also had training air battles against the MiG-21 and MiG-23.

        It's your lie. Air battles were carried out only with the MiG-21 Bis
        Possessing greater thrust-to-weight ratio, climb rate, maximum operational normal overload and lower wing load, in eighteen (18!) air battles the MiG-21bis was never able to reach the tail of the F-5E. At the same time, the F-5E in most battles had a real opportunity to fire at the rear hemisphere of the MiG-21bis.
        1. +6
          28 May 2024 15: 07
          Quote: Fitter65
          It's your lie. Air battles were carried out only with the MiG-21 Bis

          “If you want to learn more about the tests and see how the F-5 also stood up to the MiG-23M, you can read this excerpt from Soviet Air Force test pilot Vladimir Kondaurov's book, A Lifetime's Runway.
          We're still going to kick his ass!" - said the 2nd leading engineer of the MiG-23M, rubbing his hands in anticipation of revenge.

          Well, they kicked their ass, of course... but their own. The result was the same, except that the agony lasted 4-5 minutes. You should also keep in mind that I was considered a pilot capable of any stall and spin recovery, and I was allowed to violate any angle of attack restrictions. In air combat, I set the optimal wing sweep manually, but all in vain. The foreigner was slowly but steadily approaching my tail. After these flights, everyone calmed down for a while, all discussions stopped. The head of the RI ordered an urgent test report to be drawn up and sent me and Stogov to Moscow, to Central Research Institute No. 30, which was engaged in the development of promising problems in the development of aviation.
          1. +2
            29 May 2024 02: 44
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            “If you want to learn more about the tests and see how the F-5 also stood up to the MiG-23M, you can read this excerpt from Soviet Air Force test pilot Vladimir Kondaurov's book, A Lifetime's Runway.

            Memories are one thing, but the Air Force Research Institute report is quite another. And what the 2nd leading engineer of the MiG-23M said does not mean that "joint maneuvers" were conducted on the MiG-23M with the F-5E. The Air Force Research Institute reports specifically describe the type of aircraft, the time spent in the air, the altitude, the speed, as well as the actions performed in the air, that is, the maneuvers that the aircraft performed during "joint maneuvers" are described. Diagrams were also drawn up. The MiG-23M is not indicated in any of the 18 "joint maneuvers" described. Only the MiG-21 BIS with the onboard and serial numbers indicated. Kandaurov himself flew the MiG-21BIS at these events.
            1. +3
              29 May 2024 11: 02
              Quote: Fitter65
              what the 2nd leading engineer of the MiG-23M said does not mean that “joint maneuvers” were carried out on the MiG-23M with the F-5E. The reports of the Air Force Research Institute specifically describe the type of aircraft, the time spent in the air, altitude, speed, as well as the actions performed in the air, that is, the maneuvers that the aircraft performed during “joint maneuvering” are described.

              There are a lot of options here:
              - There was no report, because... no one issued an assignment to conduct such tests.
              - There was no report - who needs a document certifying the disastrous results of the loss of our 3rd generation aircraft to a foreign 2nd generation? This is the dismissal of a mass of officials and generals from service, if it reaches the country’s leadership.
              - There was a report, but it was classified, but they didn’t bother to declassify it.
              - The report was lost and did not reach the archives.
              - Etc. etc.

              Well, so far no one except you has refuted Kondaurov’s memoirs
              1. 0
                29 May 2024 12: 04
                Quote: Captain Pushkin
                Well, so far no one except you has refuted Kondaurov’s memoirs

                What did I refute? What did he say, or rather conveyed the words of some 2nd leading engineer for the MiG-23M? Maybe there was such a person without a name or surname. Again, Kandaurov conveyed the words, but not the situation, where, when and after what they were said. If anything, I also read his memoirs. Again, the 2nd leading engineer of the MiG-23M (on what topic was he leading?), could have said these words while at a meeting or meeting of the Design Bureau where the test results were announced...
                After the end of the Vietnam War in 1975, a large amount of captured American military equipment, including aircraft, remained. Much was transferred to the USSR, and among other things, the F-5E Tiger II fighter (serial number 7300807, manufactured on 02.06.74/5/XNUMX by Northrop in Palmdale, California)... First, the car was delivered to the airfield “ Chkalovskoe”, where our specialists had their first direct acquaintance with this aircraft. Then he was transported to the Air Force Research Institute base in Akhtubinsk. For detailed study, development and testing, a test team was formed from employees of the engineering and technical staff of the institute (specialists in the airframe, power plant, equipment, weapons, control and recording equipment, and others).... Based on the results of ground tests, the F-XNUMXE received very highly appreciated. Particularly noted were: — ease and simplicity of ground handling and pre-flight preparation;
                — convenient access to aircraft systems and assemblies, power plant and equipment;
                — thoughtful placement of technological hatches and connectors;
                — simplicity of the refueling process;
                — ease of maintenance of weapon systems;
                - good visibility from the cockpit, its comfort, convenient arrangement of instruments and controls... After completion of the ground testing phase, flight tests were carried out in the period July 20, 1976 to May 15, 1977. The study of the flight performance characteristics, stability and controllability characteristics, maneuverability and takeoff and landing characteristics of the F-5E aircraft was carried out in the scope of state tests... The conclusions made after a scrupulous analysis of flight materials are disappointing for our aircraft...
                The results can be found almost everywhere, I have given you quotes from the article
                Tested in the USSR. Vietnamese trophies Part 1 Comparative tests of Northrop F-5E Tiger II and MiG-21bis fighters
                The author of the article was able to personally familiarize himself with this machine and personally verify the objectivity of the assessment given by the institute’s specialists. Air Force Research Institute.
                1. 0
                  30 May 2024 00: 29
                  Quote: Fitter65
                  Well, so far no one except you has refuted Kondaurov’s memoirs

                  What did I refute? What did he say, or rather conveyed the words of some 2nd leading engineer for the MiG-23M? Maybe there was such a person without a name or surname. Again, Kandaurov conveyed the words, but not the situation, where, when and after what they were said.

                  You are refuting Kondaurov’s description of his fight in a MiG-23 against a pilot in an F-5

                  Quote: Captain Pushkin
                  Well, they kicked their ass, of course... but their own. The result was the same, except that the agony lasted 4-5 minutes. You should also keep in mind that I was considered a pilot capable of any stall and spin recovery, and I was allowed to violate any angle of attack restrictions. In air combat, I set the optimal wing sweep manually, but all in vain. The foreigner was slowly but steadily approaching my tail. After these flights, everyone calmed down for a while, all discussions stopped.
                  1. +1
                    30 May 2024 11: 52
                    Quote: Captain Pushkin
                    You are refuting Kondaurov’s description of his fight in a MiG-23 against a pilot in an F-5

                    Apart from his memories, this is not confirmed by anything. There is documentary evidence of 18 air battles, or joint maneuvers, as you like, but only the MiG-21 BIS participates there. There is not a single document about the participation of the MiG-23M and S. And what are personal memories, I gave you examples. Therefore, memories are one thing, and facts confirmed by documents are another. Otherwise, we sometimes decide to believe words unconditionally, but doubt what really happened. Documents do not confirm the words of an honored test pilot, Hero of the Soviet Union, but this does not detract from his merits. Provide a document indicating a joint test of the MiG-23M and F-5E, I apologize and agree that I was wrong. So far, no one has provided this document anywhere, everyone relies on the words of the test pilot, even in monographs about the MiG-23 it is told about, and once again, I repeat, different authors have different modifications. And a different number of joint flights. Which, you will agree, does not confirm, but on the contrary, raises doubts about this event. hi
              2. +1
                29 May 2024 12: 52
                Quote: Captain Pushkin
                - There was no report, because... no one issued an assignment to conduct such tests.
                - There was no report - who needs a document certifying the disastrous results of the loss of our 3rd generation aircraft to a foreign 2nd generation? This is the dismissal of a mass of officials and generals from service, if it reaches the country’s leadership.
                - There was a report, but it was classified, but they didn’t bother to declassify it.
                - The report was lost and did not reach the archives.

                A very good opportunity to say that it happened, but it is very secret. Again, the memoirs of Vladimir Kondaurov were published in 2005... By the way, he wrote there about the deputy chief designer of the MiG-23M, if my memory serves me right, the technical management of the MiG-23 program was assigned to A.A. Andreev. Again, memories, memories - in some memoirs they write that the MiG-5S and MiG-23MF aircraft were tested with the F-21E... But 18 joint maneuvers of MiG-21 BIS aircraft with the F-5E aircraft have been officially documented. Others rely only on someone's memories. And memories are like this.... One Hero of the Soviet Union said in the 90s that Hitler himself personally awarded him the Iron Cross before the war, when he and a group of engineers flew to Germany before the war to purchase aircraft. He also said that as a senior lieutenant he commanded not only his squadron but also a penal squadron. He took part in the Korean War and participated in the test dropping of an atomic bomb. Another respected pilot, Twice Hero, told how G.K. Zhukov in August 1942 gathered all the squadron commanders, including him, and in their presence gave the order to shoot 5 pilots who allegedly did not complete their mission. True, at that time he was still a sergeant, and not even a flight commander and could not be there personally. Then in his memoirs he told how after the war, already being a regiment commander, he recalled this incident and after the Military Council he personally asked Georgy Konstantinovich the question - why was it necessary to do this then. Zhukov evaded the answer. True, when the person I quoted was a regiment commander in the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany, Zhukov was the Minister of Defense and simply could not meet with this person at the Military Council in the GSVG. So the memories are like this...
      2. 0
        29 May 2024 09: 36
        And they say they are successful...
    6. -1
      28 May 2024 17: 35
      Maybe someone shared, or maybe they patched up their own, or saved it? Or maybe we’ll go back to Mr. Konashenko, who destroyed the entire aviation in the first couple of days..
      1. -1
        4 June 2024 20: 34
        Most likely he told the truth. No one cancelled the delivery of the same Soviet-made aircraft from Poland, Romania and the Czech Republic.
        1. 0
          25 August 2024 14: 25
          The general cannot lie. More likely...
    7. 0
      29 May 2024 13: 41
      Just like that, on airplanes there are splined joints on the landing gear.
      But to pull them out. I’ve never heard of that.
  2. + 28
    28 May 2024 04: 58
    A very patriotic article. Everything is bad for them, but for us (behind the lines) everything is good.
    The author “shyly” omitted the same simple question - what will change in Belgorod and other border cities.
    The aircraft is unlikely to participate in air battles and fire from a cannon - due to the inability to approach the enemy aircraft at such a distance, or due to the absence of such an aircraft in the potential reach zone.
    But launching a wide variety of missiles, and not necessarily against planes and helicopters, is easy.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +3
        28 May 2024 11: 48
        And it doesn’t matter that ATAKMS recently destroyed the S400 kit.
        And how the crew fired many missiles in an attempt to shoot down what was supposedly designed.
        It was a scary picture...
        But for hat-throwers, this is not an indicator...
        1. -2
          29 May 2024 00: 27
          Quote: SovAr238A
          And it doesn’t matter that ATAKMS recently destroyed the S400 kit.

          1. How many days does the SVO last? If the probability of a certain event occurring per day is 0.001, then what is the probability that this event will occur at least once during the SVO?
          2. By what signs did you determine that it was an S-400?
          Quote: SovAr238A
          And how the crew fired a lot of missiles...

          You couldn't count how many?
          Quote: SovAr238A
          ... in an attempt to bring down what was supposedly designed.

          1. How did you determine that the launches were unsuccessful?
          Quote: SovAr238A
          It was a scary picture...

          War is a terrible thing.
    2. +9
      28 May 2024 13: 18
      There are more and more such articles, soon there will be no normal ones left at all
      1. 0
        24 September 2024 11: 29
        There are practically none left now.
  3. + 23
    28 May 2024 04: 59
    F-16s will be used as an air platform for launching NATO ammunition at our positions and civilians in Belgorod...author, where did you get the idea that there would be air battles with our aces?
    The base airfields will most likely be in Poland and Romania...in Ukraine there will only be jump airfields along with false airfields.
    Let's wait and see what happens next.
    1. -1
      28 May 2024 17: 29
      hi !
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The base airfields will most likely be in Poland and Romania...in Ukraine there will only be jump airfields along with false airfields.
      And yes.
      In addition, I agree with the author of the article - the people who will sit in them will not be Ukrainians at all.

      In the last years of the USSR, I, freshly demobilized, was with my father on his official business in Armavir, at the local flight school. While my father was minding his own business, a friend of his, the ensign, took me on an excursion. Including the school museum. So I found out then that the cadets studied for four years, for the first year or two they did not fly, but only theory.
      And further.
      During the Great Patriotic War, it was evacuated and, due to a shortage of flight personnel, trained pilots (I don’t remember) for either four or six months. Released sergeants.
      I think only the deaf have not heard about our colossal losses in the first stage of the war among the young recruits of pilots. “Only “old men” go into battle - that’s exactly what it’s about. Only there it’s not said in plain text, but those in the know understand everything.

      And now a comparison - today’s airplanes, I think, are “a little” more complicated than the airplanes of that time. And to prepare dill pilots for six months, as it was then, is simply driving them to slaughter. It’s like transferring a schoolchild from a scooter to a long truck and forcing him to park in reverse.

      That’s why I think that there will be no pilots in the F-16. Even taking into account the fact that it is not learning, but relearning.
      And I haven’t said anything yet about the technical staff and airfield support - only about the pilots...
      1. +5
        28 May 2024 19: 59
        Quote: Zoldat_A
        And now a comparison - today’s airplanes, I think, are “a little” more complicated than the airplanes of that time. And to prepare dill pilots for six months, as it was then, is simply driving them to slaughter. It’s like transferring a schoolchild from a scooter to a long truck and forcing him to park in reverse.

        The biggest reason why your logic falls apart is that they take training not from scratch people, but from active pilots who, not only from scratch, but also many have combat experience.. and if it was only six months, you’re right, but this not so .. and to say that they are not able to master the F-29 after the MiG-27 and Su-16 in six months is actually talking about the fact that the F-16 is an aircraft of a completely different technological level than the Su-27, therefore For a Su-27 pilot, taking off and flying to a point and landing in six months is impossible to master... however, I am sure that this is the Su-27, a more complex aircraft... at the same time, the pilots will have an easy task, so... take off, fly to launch points for the missile launcher - launch - return and sit down .. I don’t see anything supernatural in such a task .. and that’s why I’m sure that mostly Ukrainians will fly the F-16 ..
        1. 0
          28 May 2024 20: 28
          Quote: Level 2 Advisor
          to say that they are not able to master the F-29 after the MiG-27 and Su-16 in six months is actually talking about the fact that the F-16 is an aircraft of a completely different technological level than the Su-27
          Yes, I'm not talking about the technological level...
          Who knows, but I, for example, am a creature of habit. I even have a pencil on my desk in a strictly defined place so that I don’t have to look for it with my hand on the table or under papers. If I drive for five years in one car, and then change to another, then for a month I then, out of habit, try to insert the key into the ignition in the wrong place “automatically”. Five centimeters to the side and I miss. Muscle memory plays tricks on me.

          I didn’t fly airplanes, I didn’t have to. On a helicopter, they once allowed the co-pilot to “hold” the helm in straight flight, without maneuvers (and then they cursed feel). But, as I understand it, pilots should be very well served by some actions that have been practiced to the point of automaticity. And not only for pilots. Therefore, a person who has flown on a Su-27 for ten to fifteen years, I don’t know how long it will take him “automatically” to search for the necessary buttons.

          All my doubts about dill pilots are not the confidence of a specialist, but rather assumptions based on my own experience.
        2. 0
          28 May 2024 20: 58
          So what? Takeoff, landing, spinning, yes, easier. But retraining takes a lot of time.
  4. -32
    28 May 2024 05: 00
    It is known from open sources that our S-400 air defense system can intercept targets within a radius of up to 600 km, and the S-500 even more. What’s stopping you from sending an F-16 with a pilot to Bandera while still in Ukrainian skies?
    1. + 15
      28 May 2024 05: 14
      It is known from open sources that our S-400 air defense system can intercept targets within a radius of up to 600 km

      What kind of sources are these, can I provide a link? As far as I know, the maximum range of the most modern 40N6E missile for the S-400 is 400 kilometers, and this is the advertised range, since it is achieved under the most ideal conditions. In war there will never be such a range of destruction.
      and the S-500 is even more so.

      I haven’t heard anything about these complexes since the very beginning of the war.
      1. -31
        28 May 2024 05: 15
        As far as I know, the maximum range of the most modern 40N6E missile for the S-400 is 400 kilometers
        You don't know much at all
        1. + 11
          28 May 2024 05: 16
          Can you source where the S-400 missile hits a target at a distance of 600 kilometers?
          1. -30
            28 May 2024 05: 18
            Can you source where the S-400 missile hits a target at a distance of 600 kilometers?
            The source is the simplest and most accessible, Wikipedia. And if you also know how to use search, then a ton of links will fall on your head.
            1. + 21
              28 May 2024 05: 25
              Wikipedia says that the S-400 detects a target at a distance of up to 600 kilometers. Do we know the difference between “detection” and “defeat”?
            2. +4
              28 May 2024 06: 25
              Can you source where the S-400 missile hits a target at a distance of 600 kilometers?
              The source is the simplest and most accessible, Wikipedia. And if you also know how to use search, then a ton of links will fall on your head.


              there is an even better source - the Zvezda TV channel, for example, a serious and reliable source... or you can even take the reports of the former (!) Minister of Defense to the President that in our country “everything is strengthened, renewed every year and we can continue to live joyfully.. “I myself saw these reports on TV, but they can’t lie there!
      2. + 10
        28 May 2024 05: 23
        He confused it with instrumental range, i.e. the possible range of reflection and reception of signals from the target by the radar, but it is far from certain that using this signal signature it will be possible to identify, capture and launch a missile.
      3. + 17
        28 May 2024 06: 03
        Quote from DoctorRandom
        As far as I know, the maximum range of the most modern 40N6E missile for the S-400 is 400 kilometers

        No more than 380 km against large high-altitude and low-maneuverable targets such as tanker aircraft and AWACS.
    2. + 22
      28 May 2024 05: 24
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      It is known from open sources that our S-400 air defense system can intercept targets within a radius of up to 600 km

      Cut the sturgeon...
      1. -28
        28 May 2024 05: 51
        Cut the sturgeon...
        And I thought that you had long since disappeared into the dust of the road wink
        1. + 15
          28 May 2024 06: 01
          Quote: Dutchman Michel
          Cut the sturgeon...
          And I thought that you had long since disappeared into the dust of the road wink

          Why did it happen?
          Haven’t you read about Chinese alluvial islands yet? wink
          And please share the “open source” from which you obtained the 600 km range for the S-400?
          1. -28
            28 May 2024 06: 11
            And please share the “open source” from which you obtained the 600 km range for the S-400?
            You remind me of a man painfully waiting for his next paycheck. Enter the corresponding query into the search form of any search engine and get an answer. How faithful he is, it’s not for me to judge, I’m not from the air defense
            1. + 19
              28 May 2024 06: 14
              Quote: Dutchman Michel
              You remind me of a man painfully waiting for his next paycheck.

              Fortunately, I don’t have financial problems and this is not relevant for me. wink
              Quote: Dutchman Michel
              Enter the corresponding query into the search form of any search engine and get an answer.

              Those. you are not responsible for your words and are not able to answer a directly posed question?
              Quote: Dutchman Michel
              How faithful he is, it’s not for me to judge, I’m not from the air defense

              I agree with this 100%! Yes But if you don’t have reliable information, why write nonsense?
              1. -31
                28 May 2024 06: 18
                But if you don’t have reliable information, why write nonsense?
                If you have such information, then post it and don’t write nonsense. I noticed a long time ago that your IQ is quite normal for your species.
                1. + 23
                  28 May 2024 06: 28
                  Quote: Dutchman Michel
                  I noticed a long time ago that your IQ is quite normal for your species.

                  You are writing this to a person who has over 700 articles on VO, a significant portion of which are on the topic of air defense. Yes, you really do have an extraordinary IQ! wassat
                  1. -30
                    28 May 2024 06: 30
                    This is you writing to a person who has more than 700 articles on VO and a significant part on the subject of air defense
                    Just a rural club, with the ambitions of the Bolshoi Theater wink
                    1. + 10
                      28 May 2024 09: 13
                      Dutchman, you are simply either a provocateur or you are begging for pennies with your posts.
                      1. -12
                        28 May 2024 10: 55
                        Dutchman, you are simply either a provocateur or you are begging for pennies with your posts.
                        I would like to hear from you, but who are you?
      2. +2
        28 May 2024 18: 14
        Hello Sergei, I no longer have the strength to comment on this nonsense, the last time I tried was about Iran’s “massive” missile attack on us, like V. Vysotsky in the song “What’s in his forehead, what’s in his forehead, everything is the same.”
        Hello to Olechka.
    3. +5
      28 May 2024 06: 59
      Physics, I think, gets in the way. Firstly, the target must have a certain reflective surface. And this is clearly not a fighter. Secondly, external target designation is needed, because the curvature of the Earth will not allow the target to be illuminated at such a distance. Well, again, who is stopping the plane from diving down after receiving a launch warning? Against the background of the Earth, the warhead may not capture the target.
    4. +2
      28 May 2024 08: 53
      Unfortunately, the earth is a ball, if it were flat then yes, but otherwise all sorts of nonsense turns out.
      1. 0
        28 May 2024 16: 58
        And Mr. Loza, together with the sect, claim that the earth is flat and the radio horizon is +- infinity. Now, Lafa will be for ALL electronic detection systems and AWACS aircraft NOT NEEDED!
    5. +4
      28 May 2024 09: 53
      . It is known from open sources that our S-400 air defense system can intercept targets within a radius of up to 600 km, and the S-500 even more. What’s stopping you from sending an F-16 with a pilot to Bandera while still in Ukrainian skies?

      These complexes have been being diligently cleaned up lately, if you have noticed. And not only these. Clearing the skies for the F-16. Yes
    6. +1
      28 May 2024 09: 57
      At a distance of 600km???? Well, first of all, these are, let’s say, inflated expectations. Secondly, if this were the case, then this would be the visibility of the radar complex of the aircraft under ideal conditions at an altitude of 10000-12000 m. I doubt that they will fly as targets.
    7. 0
      28 May 2024 11: 37
      What’s stopping you from sending an F-16 with a pilot to Bandera while still in Ukrainian skies?

      curvature of the Earth.
    8. +3
      28 May 2024 11: 50
      Look at the reality of how the S400 works against ATAKMS...
      https://youtu.be/1-sqSaZ8u98?si=KztZY0P4kmZHnkJy
      1. +4
        28 May 2024 15: 58
        Quote: SovAr238A
        Look at the reality of how the S400 works against ATAKMS...

        Hmm... did the division commander specifically enter the position into the ellipse of the cassette warhead cover? belay
        1. +5
          28 May 2024 19: 07
          I don’t understand myself: “Well, how can this be?” I’m in tears...
          It's a shame that...

          Well, is it really possible that our army is a country of unafraid idiots?
          The war is going on for three years, and they are putting the division in a crowd so that they can shout at each other and not go far to visit?
          Well, what other explanation is there for such a crime?
          1. +1
            29 May 2024 00: 33
            Quote: SovAr238A
            I don’t understand myself: “Well, how can this be?” I’m in tears...
            It's a shame that...

            Well, is it really possible that our army is a country of unafraid idiots?
            The war is going on for three years, and they are putting the division in a crowd so that they can shout at each other and not go far to visit?
            Well, what other explanation is there for such a crime?

            Well-o-o-o... We need to reduce our emotions and study more technology. Everything was placed there normally.
        2. -2
          29 May 2024 00: 31
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Hmm... did the division commander specifically enter the position into the ellipse of the cassette warhead cover?

          Everything is fine with the position...
          1. 0
            29 May 2024 10: 51
            Quote: Comet
            Everything is fine with the position...

            Is the maximum 100 meters between the control point and control point still the same? Well, yes, then questions to the developers.
            1. +1
              29 May 2024 23: 47
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Is the maximum 100 meters between the control point and control point still the same?

              120 m between the radar station and the control center.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Well, yes, then questions to the developers.

              What questions?
              1. +1
                30 May 2024 10: 39
                Quote: Comet
                What questions?

                Is it possible to increase the distance between the launcher and the command post so that the division’s position is not covered by one OTR?
                True, in response you can hear that the TTT was issued for the country’s air defense complex, but is used as military air defense.
                1. 0
                  3 June 2024 22: 19
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Is it possible to increase the distance between the launcher and the command post so that the division’s position is not covered by one OTR?

                  Between the radar and the control center. Can.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  True, in response you can hear that the TTT was issued for the country’s air defense complex, but is used as military air defense.

                  Which TTTs were exhibited, such equipment was received.
                2. +1
                  4 June 2024 00: 09
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Is it possible to increase the distance between the control panel and the control panel?

                  Quote: Comet
                  Between the radar and the control center. Can.

                  Damn, I got it wrong. The distance between the CP and the PU can be increased.
      2. -1
        29 May 2024 00: 30
        Quote: SovAr238A
        Look at the reality of how the S400 works against ATAKMS...
        https://youtu.be/1-sqSaZ8u98?si=KztZY0P4kmZHnkJy

        1. By what signs did you determine that this was an S-400?
        2. Is this the only work of the S-400 against ATACMS?
      3. 0
        29 May 2024 14: 54
        Some kind of leftist cartoon - since when does a rocket from a TPK launch immediately with the torch of a working engine? The rocket comes out cold, the engine starts at an altitude of 20-30 meters and only then turns towards the target, and then immediately from the TPK to the target with the engine running.
        1. 0
          29 May 2024 15: 25
          There, the quality and angle of the shooting are such that the release of the missile defense system is not visible - the launch is recorded when the main engine starts.
          In fact, there should first be a cold start with the release of missiles from the TPK, and half a second after it, at the top point, the launch of the rocket engine, accompanied by a cloud of smoke and dust. Well, or non-launch - with a cloud of obscenities from the scattering crew.
    9. 0
      28 May 2024 20: 48
      The laws of physics interfere, namely the radio horizon. At an altitude of 10-12 km there is only 450 km of radius. The height is smaller and the detection radius is correspondingly smaller. But we have almost no AWACS aircraft and it is unknown how they can issue target designation to air defense systems.
    10. +2
      29 May 2024 00: 05
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      It is known from open sources that our S-400 air defense system can intercept targets within a radius of up to 600 km

      600 km - instrumental range of the 91N6E radar in some modes. The target detection range with an EPR of 1 m^2 in these modes is 338 km. The detection range of a target with an EPR of 60 m^2 at an altitude of 15 km from the 92N6E radar with external target designation is at least 440 km. The far border of the 40N6E missile defense zone is 380 km.
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. -14
      28 May 2024 05: 11
      F-16s in the amount of several dozen will cause the Russian Armed Forces perhaps the most serious problems in all 3 years of the war
      Can you name these serious problems?
      The Russian Aerospace Forces have never encountered such an enemy in their 30-year history.
      Likewise, the F-16 has also never encountered a serious enemy. More and more Papuans were bombed
      1. + 12
        28 May 2024 05: 24
        Can you name these serious problems?

        The most important one is NATO AWACS aircraft, which will provide target designation for Ukrainian F-16s.
        The second is rockets. Although they are already serving in Ukraine as part of NASAMS complexes, this is not the same as if these missiles were suspended on airplanes. This is, after all, what they were created for.
        Third, a larger range of cruise missiles.
        Enough, I think.
        Likewise, the F-16 has also never encountered a serious enemy. More and more Papuans were bombed

        In general I agree, but the issue is debatable. So you can say about any relatively modern aircraft that it has never seen an “equal” opponent.
        1. +1
          28 May 2024 06: 27
          The most important one is NATO AWACS aircraft, which will provide target designation for Ukrainian F-16s.

          Again about AWACS. Are you aware of the operating range of this system? It can really create problems in the Black Sea region and on the western outskirts. But the main military operations are not taking place in these areas.
      2. -4
        28 May 2024 10: 41
        Why didn’t you come across something? For example, there was a clash in the border area between a Pakistani F-16 and an Indian MIG-21(!) with dire consequences for the first...
      3. +4
        28 May 2024 16: 00
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        Likewise, the F-16 has also never encountered a serious enemy.

        The Syrian Air Force and Air Defense, trained and operating according to Soviet instructions, apparently do not count. wink
        1. -3
          28 May 2024 23: 55
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The Syrian Air Force and Air Defense, trained and operating according to Soviet instructions, apparently do not count.

          Of course not. Absolute lack of modern means at that time.
          1. +3
            29 May 2024 11: 17
            Quote: Comet
            Of course not. Absolute lack of modern means at that time.

            The Syrians in 1982 had the “average level” of Soviet air and air defense. They were even given a MiG-23ML.
            1. 0
              29 May 2024 23: 50
              Quote: Alexey RA
              The Syrians in 1982 had the “average level” of Soviet air and air defense.

              What is the "average level" of Soviet air defense? There were no modern air defense systems in Syria at that time.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              They were even given a MiG-23ML.

              The MiG-23ML was delivered in the second half of 1982. The events discussed in Syria are the first half of 1982.
      4. 0
        28 May 2024 18: 25
        Likewise, the F-16 has also never encountered a serious enemy. More and more Papuans were bombed

        You tell this to our Air Force pilots, who have been flying the MiG-21/23/25 over Lebanon since 1981 and then finished off the Yankees in the Gulf, ignorant, learn history hexpert.
        1. -3
          28 May 2024 23: 54
          Quote: merkava-2bet
          You tell this to our Air Force pilots, who have been flying the MiG-21/23/25 over Lebanon since 1981 and then finished off the Yankees in the Gulf, ignorant, learn history hexpert.

          Are these planes that you flew over Lebanon really “serious opponents” even in 1981?
    2. -4
      28 May 2024 06: 11
      You are simply lying about the S-400. For what?
      1. + 11
        28 May 2024 09: 52
        What exactly is our respected colleague lying about? Is it that, according to advertising brochures, the S-400 doesn’t shoot down a death star, but in fact this is a little wrong? Or maybe you are not familiar with the recent attacks on our complexes, many of which have already been recognized even by our “bloggers”? (yes, the Ministry of Defense does not officially recognize this, but we both know that it will never admit it)... for the last mentioned case there is even video confirmation from a Ukrainian drone of how the battery first frantically fires back, and then a cassette player from the Himars flies in and destroys almost the entire battery... yes, they mumble something, that there were more than 10 missiles, and one miraculously broke through, unsuccessfully for us, but for To a layman, the picture looks like it looks like at first the complex was unable to shoot down the gunner drone, and then it was completely destroyed; it didn’t even protect itself...
        PS: regarding the article - Roman has already buried the F-16, although there has been no data on the use or delivery of the vehicle yet... and by the way, again the author (and not only him) sings odes to the Su-35, what will it do if (I hope not when) ) unexpectedly arriving “falcons” will begin to crash our planes? Let me remind you that at one time, through the mouths of various authors, we had already buried both the Ukrainian air defense and the main forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine into a cauldron in the Donbass (I won’t remember about Kyiv by lunchtime or 3 days, today it is already considered a muzzle manner) ... and how much laughter there was from mention of the Ukrainian Navy, although now neither we nor Ukraine have practically any fleet in the Black Sea (we physically seem to still have it, but it has huddled “in a little house” and has perhaps not begun to beg not to touch it)…
    3. +7
      28 May 2024 06: 46
      The low location of the air intakes is not conducive to takeoffs on a dirty runway; this can end in trouble for everyone.

      Are they located high on the Su-27 and MiG-29?

      No, they are not located high. But the MiG 29 has an air intake system during takeoff and landing not through the main air intakes, but through “gills”; the SU-mesh has titanium meshes in the air intake channels. Whether the “American” has something, I’m not sure.
      because the Russian Aerospace Forces have never faced such an enemy in their 30-year history. Yes, there was the Ukrainian Air Force, but shooting down frankly ancient planes from a distance of several tens, or even hundreds of kilometers, which had not undergone meaningful modernization, was not serious.
      I assure you, no one has encountered this, not in the last 30 years, and not even since Vietnam, at least since Korea. Both sides are worried.
      1. +2
        28 May 2024 16: 01
        Quote: Mikhail Tynda
        I assure you, no one has encountered this, not in the last 30 years, and not even since Vietnam, at least since Korea.

        Then since the times of Syria-82 and Iraq-91.
    4. +6
      28 May 2024 08: 13
      If the West allows strikes with transferred weapons on the territory of the Russian Federation recognized by them, then extremely serious problems will begin, which will not be solved without the construction of concrete shelters at all front-line airfields.

      And without evacuating businesses. Moreover, it was timely, i.e. carried out yesterday.

      Now is the time to draw “red lines,” no joke. Attacks with long-range missiles deep into Rossit should be regarded exclusively as direct attacks by “authorizers” on Russia and a limited but direct military response against “partners” should be promised (as was the case with Iran, the United States and Israel, and as was the case more than once during the acute periods of the Cold War). Otherwise, it’s World War III with giveaways.

      But reinforced concrete structures still need to be built, and enterprises must be somehow covered, because drones are being improved, and sooner or later Ukrainian (or “Ukrainian”) cruise and ballistic missiles will appear in significant quantities.
    5. +2
      28 May 2024 13: 50
      I'm glad that there are still normal people on the site.
      History has shown that excessive patriotism and “shaming” do not end well.
    6. -5
      28 May 2024 14: 20
      Why were you so inspired by the F-16? An outdated short-range single-engine fighter with a capricious (relative to colleagues with roots from the USSR) need for infrastructure, which has become widespread due to its low cost and lack of advantages relative to the MiG-29, its classmate. If the MiGs did not help the Ukrainians, then what will the F-16 achieve?
      1. +2
        28 May 2024 14: 40
        What will the F-16 achieve?

        Nothing special, just living in Russia will become a little more dangerous. (I won’t even remember about the poor Black Sea Fleet; they drove it into a corner even without NATO aircraft. Remember the Novocherkassk landing craft)
      2. +2
        28 May 2024 15: 06
        moments helped the Ukrainians a lot and continue to help now, it’s just that initially there were very few of them, outdated and not undergone major modernization, and over time their number decreased greatly, and the F-16 will replenish the thinning fleet of the Ukrainians, and of course the F-16 received by the Ukrainians greatly surpass the moments they had
    7. -1
      29 May 2024 00: 38
      Quote from DoctorRandom
      But it turned out that even the Kyrgyz Republic is going astray

      “So-so” - how is that?
      Quote from DoctorRandom
      and the ballistics that have been studied far and wide are not very good.

      “Not very” - what does it mean? “Very” - how is it?
      Quote from DoctorRandom
      The latter, in turn, carries out a complex of this highly praised air defense system almost every week.

      How do you determine that this is an S-400? What is the total expenditure of weapons used in attacks on the S-400?
  6. + 22
    28 May 2024 05: 12
    Not again, but again. Western weapons are complete bullshit and can’t hold a candle to Russian ones...and so on and so forth.
    It was the third year of the SVO, and the articles did not change at all.
    1. -20
      28 May 2024 05: 18
      It was the third year of the SVO, and the articles did not change at all.

      Just like the comments about “everything is lost” on VO
      1. +5
        28 May 2024 05: 30
        Quote: Coward
        It was the third year of the SVO, and the articles did not change at all.

        Just like the comments about “everything is lost” on VO

        Do you think that the appearance of the F-16 will significantly ease the situation for the Russian troops? laughing
        Will there be a place for the S-400 crews to hang their hats and train?
        Or, like the author of the article, do you think they will kill themselves at Soviet airfields?
        1. -12
          28 May 2024 05: 52
          And you, apparently, think that whining here and in all sorts of carts “will significantly ease the situation of the Russian troops.”
          1. +8
            28 May 2024 06: 29
            Apparently you think that whining here and in all sorts of carts “will significantly ease the situation of the Russian troops.”

            Whining does not make the situation easier for the fighters, but a soothing lie is the shortest way to lose the war!
            1. -16
              28 May 2024 06: 41
              Yeah, today Russia is losing the war especially badly.
              1. +7
                28 May 2024 09: 12
                At this rate of “winning” the war, yes, he is losing. I still believe that time is not on our side. We are losing the war not to the outskirts, but to NATO. I think that with the current level of military spending we will not last long. Unlike our enemies. The enemies understand this. That's why there are no peace talks.
                1. -9
                  28 May 2024 09: 29
                  Do you have all the necessary information, including classified information, on the basis of which you draw these conclusions? Or solely on the basis of information from military officers and all-propalistic comments?
                  1. 0
                    24 September 2024 11: 41
                    Why do we need the opinion of Vkonkor for a general assessment of the situation? The assessment of the map and the forecast of economic development are more important here
              2. +4
                28 May 2024 12: 03
                In the next 5-6 years, our positions become losing.
                Ага.
                Considering that just 2 years ago the Ukrainians were given only body armor, dry rations, and they were afraid to even give grenade launchers.

                The process of our dehumanization throughout the world is proceeding by leaps and bounds.
                There is a possibility that in a year or a year and a half a global anti-Russian military coalition will emerge
                Like 80 years ago.
                1. -8
                  28 May 2024 14: 48
                  I understand that you are voicing your wet dreams, but write it down and tell your owners that dreams do not coincide with reality.
                  1. +5
                    28 May 2024 16: 04
                    As I understand it, the hysteria around Russia’s possible use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine has passed you by. At this rate, a little more - and we will hear “Radio of a Thousand Hills” performed by DW, BBC and CNN.
                    1. -5
                      28 May 2024 23: 56
                      Hysteria? Is this from the local armchair commanders? These, due to their lack of intelligence, will be hysterical from the very beginning of the NWO. But our government is calmly, deliberately and systematically achieving its goals in Ukraine.
                      1. +1
                        29 May 2024 11: 23
                        Quote: Coward
                        Hysteria? Is this from the local armchair commanders?

                        No - this means that:
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        The process of our dehumanization throughout the world is proceeding by leaps and bounds.
                        There is a possibility that in a year or a year and a half a global anti-Russian military coalition will emerge
                        Like 80 years ago.

                        So the described option of a creeping replacement of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with mercenaries and ichtamnets from the west, armed from the warehouses of the same US NG, is quite realistic. The Western military-industrial complex is for such a scenario with both hands: after all, these are new orders to replace those going to Ukraine.
                        And the media will contribute to the rise of anti-Russian patriotism and the influx of personnel for the war. Exactly the same way that in a couple of months they dehumanized Saddam from an ally of the United States to a monster throwing babies out of the windows of maternity hospitals.
                  2. -2
                    28 May 2024 17: 11
                    You also earn your 30 coins.
                    Judging by your posts.
  7. +8
    28 May 2024 05: 21
    Underestimating the enemy has led to the fact that instead of 2 - 3 weeks, this is already the third year. They will have everything they need, both technicians and vacationers at the helm. And under this case, Voronezh DM also arrived. Which, by the way, did not particularly help during the Kyrgyz Republic’s raids on the Crimea. Which I don't understand at all.
    1. +5
      28 May 2024 06: 31
      did not particularly help during the Kyrgyz Republic’s raids on the Crimea. Which I don't understand at all.

      If I'm not mistaken, the "Voronezh" of which certain people with huge shoulder straps were so proud is only suitable for tracking ballistic missile launches... please correct me if I'm wrong...
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      28 May 2024 07: 23
      Voronezh DM is part of the PRN system and will issue target designations for the missile defense system that protects Moscow. On the success of the Armavir radar:
      https://tass.ru/arhiv/671195.
      It performs its functions, but its tasks are different. For example, the Gabala radar station tracked all ballistic missile launches exchanged between Iran and Iraq. Our PRN system has been tested in combat work.
    3. +1
      28 May 2024 08: 28
      Voronezh-DM is generally not for small low-flying targets. He looks after the ICBM. And the station in Armavir faces strictly south, and not west.
  8. +9
    28 May 2024 05: 33
    The Tiger (F-5) fell into the hands of testers who began to study it. But it was not possible to fly around in full: after the fifth or sixth flight, the landing gear miraculously did not break. It turned out that landings on our runways tore the slots in the struts out of the car.

    Along with the unsatisfactory quality of the chassis, it turned out that
    After determining the main flight characteristics, we began comparative air battles with the MiG-21BIS. I fought in my “native” MiG-21, and Nikolai Stogov in the F-5. The close maneuver "battle" began in equal conditions on head-on courses. All flights ended with the same result - the MiG-21 lost, although it had a significantly higher thrust-to-weight ratio
    V.N.Kondaurov, test pilot (https://aftershock.news/?q=node/944795&full)

    Therefore, there is no need to be so indiscriminate. Americans know how to make good airplanes. Especially if there are good pilots at the controls.
  9. -8
    28 May 2024 05: 55
    Ukrofashists need media hype and shaking up the situation in our rear. Therefore, we must wait for the use of cruise missiles against peaceful populated areas in the direction of Moscow. In the same numbers as in Crimea recently, about a hundred at a time in combination with UAVs and decoys.
  10. -9
    28 May 2024 05: 55
    Well, let's catch this Falcon first, and then listen.
    But what about this story of the “carrier of nuclear weapons”, they didn’t flog with a “Bulava”, but it would be better to use a “Voevoda” with a conventional warhead to attack the Nazis, somewhere on the western border of Ukraine, of course without warning anyone, let them think what it is and where it is flies.
  11. +4
    28 May 2024 05: 57
    gaps in concrete runway slabs

    I've never noticed this... laughing
  12. BAI
    + 16
    28 May 2024 06: 00
    One should not underestimate the capabilities of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Our unit, where my wife provides volunteer support, was surrounded near Kharkov. They write that they cannot leave and will not give up. But there is no help. The meat grinder is terrible. Everything is not so simple and easy
  13. 0
    28 May 2024 06: 12
    leave a beautiful corpse

    It may be ugly, we’ll tolerate it somehow. The enemy's corpse is always good.
  14. +4
    28 May 2024 06: 15
    beautiful corpses will be useful for exhibitions on Poklonnaya Hill and in Patriot parks.
    Airplanes, unlike tanks, rarely leave beautiful corpses. And the speeds are not the same, and the strength is not the same, and aluminum, unlike steel, burns clean.
    1. man
      0
      28 May 2024 09: 19
      Quote: Nagan
      beautiful corpses will be useful for exhibitions on Poklonnaya Hill and in Patriot parks.
      Airplanes, unlike tanks, rarely leave beautiful corpses. And the speeds are not the same, and the strength is not the same, and aluminum, unlike steel, burns clean.

      Not to mention the fact that exhibiting any corpses at exhibitions is, to put it mildly, overkill. Something happened to the author...
  15. + 12
    28 May 2024 06: 18
    and the Ministry of Defense has learned how to put on a show.
    I liked the last show."Timur and his team"..Generals, let's go...
  16. +3
    28 May 2024 06: 23
    I wouldn’t be surprised at all; moreover, I’m sure that the people sitting in the cockpits of the planes are not Ukrainians at all. Well, simply because you don’t need to do PR, but do business. And after six months of training, Ukrainian pilots—forgive me, it’s like sitting at the controls of a Yak in bad times after 4 hours of flight time at a flying club.

    Well, you all understand the analogy.

    Therefore, there is such confidence that what is on the air is not language, but something else. And at airfields too, because teaching an experienced pilot to fly according to the analogies of his service is one thing, but with technicians and engineers, especially in radio electronics, excuse me, everything is according to Stanislavsky. That is, I can’t believe it at all. It’s not the Ukrainians who are bustling around there, preparing the Falcons for flight.
    Why shouldn't Ukrainians sit in airplane cockpits? Especially with Russian surnames, no matter how you look at it, we are of the same blood. If there's one thing we have, it's ingenuity and resourcefulness. In WWII, we quickly mastered all the American and English technology, without any of that, with seven years of education as the main one. Well, there's no need to talk about the present times, and the engineering technicians there are at a level, maybe even better than the visiting Varangians. So it seems that our Slavs are there. As for conversations on the air, our pilots also tried to speak Korean in the skies over Korea, though not very well, but the military trick of misleading the enemy will always be present.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. +1
    28 May 2024 07: 04
    Quote: Vladimir80
    did not particularly help during the Kyrgyz Republic’s raids on the Crimea. Which I don't understand at all.

    If I'm not mistaken, the "Voronezh" of which certain people with huge shoulder straps were so proud is only suitable for tracking ballistic missile launches... please correct me if I'm wrong...

    As an example of the successful operation of the Armavir radio engineering center.
    https://www.vesti.ru/article/1954959
  19. +3
    28 May 2024 07: 13
    After the fifth or sixth flight, the landing gear miraculously did not break. It turned out that landings on our runways tore the slots in the struts out of the car. I am a person far from aviation, and maybe the runways of military airfields are different from civilian runways, although during takeoff and landing you can feel the plane rolling along them, but how come all those Boeings and Airbuses didn't break their landing gear? Or is there something wrong with the article, huh?
  20. + 14
    28 May 2024 07: 14
    The authors of such articles should be forced to read out loud in cemeteries near the graves of our soldiers and killed civilians. Preferably in the presence of relatives.
    And don't let them dry off.
  21. + 11
    28 May 2024 07: 18
    We have not yet destroyed even the enemy’s Soviet aircraft, so replenishing enemy aircraft will bring additional difficulties for us. In this case, we are not talking about the quality of aircraft, but about their quantity. Whether it’s the F-16 or the Mig-29, it doesn’t matter, what’s important is that the enemy will have more aircraft.

    In addition, the use of the F-16 will allow the Ukrainian Armed Forces to use a wide range of Western weapons.

    You can, of course, rely on the reports of the Ministry of Defense, according to which every enemy aircraft was destroyed at least three times, but it is better to think for yourself.

    F-16 deliveries will bring us additional problems and losses. We don't have enough hats to cover them all, although some seem to firmly believe this.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. + 12
    28 May 2024 07: 52
    After the first year of the Air Defense Forces, our media shouted in unison that “the Ukrainian Air Force has been completely destroyed” - since then, articles of this kind no longer inspire me. From the word absolutely. Someone might object: they gave me a ride. So if they gave us a ride, why was they allowed to give us a ride? An airplane is not a sewing machine.
  24. Des
    +6
    28 May 2024 07: 52
    To be honest, I didn't expect such an article from such an author))). No, I did! A long time ago (before the "forever" ban)) I said that R.S.'s articles are very "on the topic of the day", and the topics and attitudes towards them change over time. Well, like an order. I was restored on the site in a surprising way, without any gadgets. I don't know who to say "thank you" to. But. I respect propaganda. It is an inseparable part of our lives.
    To that.
    From an article by a respected VO author (and not only):
    Here we can recall a historical example when, after the end of the Vietnam War, a copy of the F-5E Tiger fell into the hands of Soviet specialists. The car is generally new, even if it’s not top-of-the-line: the “Tigers” were systematically torn off by their fangs in the skies of Vietnam.


    F-5E Tiger at the LNII test airfield in Akhtubinsk

    The Tiger fell into the hands of testers who began to study it. But it was not possible to fly around in full: after the fifth or sixth flight, the landing gear miraculously did not break. It turned out that landings on our runways tore the slots in the struts out of the car.

    Yes, yes, but it should be noted that all USSR aircraft did not win a single training battle.
    1. -6
      28 May 2024 08: 22
      Share some proof like “all USSR aircraft lost to the F-5E.” I was just curious. It seems like I didn’t manage to fly around completely, but I managed to win all the battles.
      1. Des
        +5
        28 May 2024 08: 31
        I don't know what "proof" is. But for you, who do not know the query string on the Internet and are too lazy to think))) (no offense - a joke of humor, but it’s true))). Type "Tests of the captured Northrop F-5E fighter in the USSR" and for you clarification: Kondaurov Vladimir Nikolaevich.
        1. +2
          28 May 2024 12: 23
          I was dialing. Half of the links are repeats and garbage with clickbait titles. Of the two more or less adequate ones, one claims that the F-5 fought 21 everywhere, the second that only in the horizontal, and in the vertical - everything was the other way around. At the same time, it turned out that by “all” (bold) Soviet aircraft you meant only 21 and 23, despite the fact that the latter could be used in close combat against the F-5 only due to the feeblemindedness of some torso in stripes, which has little in common with aviation . I rather expected to see the Mig-19 there. But you demonstrated your exceptional sense of humor and unconditional intellectual superiority :) I feel like another day of retirement was not in vain :)
          1. Des
            +1
            28 May 2024 19: 03
            Everything is fine, I have had a pension for a long time, but I have to work).
            Perhaps the results of the training battles turned out this way because of the inherited modification of the F-5E. And yes, you are right, the MiG-19 could have tried, because it was in service with the USSR almost until 1990(!).
      2. +5
        28 May 2024 08: 50
        After determining the main flight characteristics, we began comparative air battles with the MiG-21BIS. I fought in my “native” MiG-21, and Nikolai Stogov - in the F-5. The close maneuver "battle" began in equal conditions on head-on courses. All flights ended with the same result - the MiG-21 lost, although it had a significantly higher thrust-to-weight ratio. I, as they say, “went out of my way” to at least maintain the initial conditions during the maneuvering process. I took everything that it was capable of from the plane, but the target’s angle was steadily increasing and in a couple of minutes the “enemy” was on my tail. ... But how can you explain all this up there? After all, they won’t pat you on the head. Then representatives of Mikoyan’s company suggested:
        - Let's put the MiG-23M against him.
        “But they cannot be compared, they were created in different “historical” times,” objected the head of our research institute.
        During the Great Patriotic War, Colonel-General I.D. Gaidaenko, as a fighter pilot, fought at the front as a follower of "himself" P.S. Kutakhov, who was at that time the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force, who was to report the results of a comparative assessment.
        “But we’ll give him some pepper,” said the deputy chief designer of the MiG-23M, rubbing his hands in anticipation of revenge.
        Of course, they poured “pepper”, only for themselves. The result was the same, with the only difference being that the agony lasted up to 4-5 minutes. And this takes into account the fact that I, as a pilot who is fluent in all methods of bringing an aircraft out of a stall and spin, was allowed to use angles of attack higher than the maximum permissible. During the “battle” I manually set the most optimal wing sweep. But it was all in vain... The stranger slowly but persistently walked into the “tail”. After this, there was silence for some time, loud discussions stopped. ...

        Test pilot
        Kondaurov V N
        "A runway that lasts a lifetime"
        And it seems like it wasn’t possible to fly around completely

        It was the author who “failed to fly around”. In reality, they flew for a long time.
        On the initiative of the head of the Air Force Research Institute, General I.D. Gaidaenko, supported by the Deputy Air Force Commander-in-Chief for Armament M.N. Mishuk, comparative tests and training battles were carried out with domestic MiG-21bis and MiG-23ML fighters. Test pilots of the Air Force Research Institute N.I. Stogov, V.N Kondaurov, A.S. took part in this work. Bezhevets... The F-5E flew in Vladimirovka for about a year until one of the landing gear tires collapsed.
        1. -2
          28 May 2024 12: 30
          Kondaurov’s revelations sound like some kind of nonsense or self-flagellation of the times between perestroika and the new wave of patriotism, when everything Soviet suddenly became crap. I just can’t imagine how the “deputy chief designer” of the MiG-23M, which seems to have never been positioned as a maneuverable combat aircraft at all, rubs his hands and promises to “sprinkle pepper” on a light maneuverable fighter in dogfight conditions.
          1. +1
            28 May 2024 15: 57
            Kondaurov's revelations sound like some kind of nonsense

            Kondaurov Vladimir Nikolaevich ... - Soviet military test pilot, Honored Test Pilot of the USSR, Colonel, Hero of the Soviet Union

            On the initiative of the head of the Air Force Research Institute, General I.D. Gaidaenko, supported by the Deputy Air Force Commander-in-Chief for Armament M.N. Mishuk, comparative tests and training battles were carried out with domestic MiG-21bis and MiG-23ML fighters. Test pilots of the Air Force Research Institute N.I. Stogov, V.N. Kondaurov, A.S. Bezhevets and Air Force inspector Uryadov took part in this work

            Find other evaluations of the tests carried out and provide links, let’s compare.
            1. 0
              29 May 2024 11: 56
              Actually, I didn't want to say anything bad about Kondaurov. But you should understand that in 99 cases out of 100, someone writes memoirs for such people, and with an eye on the market and sales. I'm inclined to think that in the original source, the whole story about "the newest MiG-23 that should give the outdated F-5 a good thrashing" sounded completely different. But here it looks like the publisher decided to "give it some thrashing" in the spirit of the 90s.
              1. 0
                29 May 2024 12: 00
                Not only Kondaurov had reports of these tests. Even if it is written artistically, it does not fundamentally change their result.
                1. 0
                  29 May 2024 12: 10
                  You probably didn't read it carefully. I myself do not question the results of training battles 23 against F-5. Based on my modest knowledge, under the given conditions they are obvious and were obvious then. That is why I was suspicious of the “sprinkling pepper” story, to which even the deputy chief designer of the Mig-23 was dragged in. He should have known the pros and cons of his plane.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. 0
                    29 May 2024 18: 12
                    Based on my modest knowledge, under the given conditions they are obvious and were obvious then. That’s why I was suspicious of the “sprinkle in pepper” stuff.

                    Read Kondaurov's book further in the story after this episode. This was not obvious to everyone then.
                    I also had to read this in other publications on this topic.
                    After the completion of the tests, as a result of which the American aircraft received a high assessment of its flight performance, air battles (the so-called “joint maneuvering”) were carried out with the MiG-21 BIS fighter. The results were unexpected and discouraged not only the pilots who carried out these battles, but also the researchers of the Air Force Research Institute and the design engineers of the A.I. Mikoyan Design Bureau.

                    The stuff about “sprinkling pepper” aroused my suspicions

                    suspicions are a dark subject, not subject to research :)) I also don’t see anything special that someone from the MiG management communicated with a group of test pilots - Heroes of the Soviet Union (all test participants).
                    hi
          2. +1
            28 May 2024 23: 49
            Quote: Mikhail Toropov
            Kondaurov's revelations sound like some kind of nonsense

            I wrote about this to Solar just below.
          3. +1
            29 May 2024 00: 43
            Quote: Mikhail Toropov
            Kondaurov's revelations sound like some kind of nonsense...

            And look at my answer to Siber.
        2. 0
          28 May 2024 23: 35
          Quote from solar
          It was the author who “failed to fly around”. In reality, they flew for a long time.
          ...conducted comparative tests and training battles with domestic MiG-21bis and MiG-23ML fighters.

          You probably copied this from Bongo's material on VO without thinking. And Bongo for some reason added the letter "L" after the letter "M". It seems like a small thing, but the result is completely different...
          1. +1
            29 May 2024 00: 04
            Yes, Kandaurov has the Mig-23M, Bongo has the ML, and in two articles a year apart.
            Theoretically, it could have been either M or ML, and Kandaurov could have not specified that it was specifically ML and not just M (for him at that time it was MiG-23M 23-12, ed. 3, for example, and he received the letter L, for example, when it was already in serial production; there were such features in the Soviet defense industry).
            Bongo in his article https://topwar.ru/28776-amerikancy-v-rossii.html
            refers to Corner of the Sky, the phrase is taken from there.
            http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/f5e.html
            ML is listed there.
            1. 0
              29 May 2024 00: 17
              Quote from solar
              theoretically it could be either M or ML

              No, I couldn't. These are very different planes.
              Quote from solar
              and not just M (for him at that time it was Mig-23M 23-12

              MiG-23M is 23-11M or Izdeliye 2, and 23-12 or Izdeliye 3 is MiG-23ML, MiG-23MLA, MiG-23MLD. 23-11M and 23-12 are very different aircraft, it is impossible to confuse them.
              Quote from solar
              Bongo in his article https://topwar.ru/28776-amerikancy-v-rossii.html
              refers to Corner of the Sky, the phrase is taken from there.
              http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/f5e.html
              ML is listed there.

              This means that in the Corner of Heaven, for some reason, someone added the letter L, but Bongo didn’t bother to figure it out. And this is a serious change.
              1. 0
                29 May 2024 12: 04
                I would say that in the context of the topic this is an absolutely secondary issue. Because within the framework of L, they did not add engines with UHT, but simply brought the mediocre maneuverability of the aircraft to satisfactory. The story itself that the deputy main commander of the Mig-23 could believe that the aircraft in close maneuver combat should directly “pour” a priori the more maneuverable F-5 still sounds crazy. I could believe this if we were talking about the late 70s and the Mig-29, but not about the Mig-23 in any of its modifications.
                1. +1
                  30 May 2024 00: 17
                  Quote: Mikhail Toropov
                  Because within the framework of L, they did not add engines with UHT, but simply brought the mediocre maneuverability of the aircraft to satisfactory.

                  But that's not the point. These are completely different aircraft, and not a single pilot will say “MiG-23ML” if he was “MiG-23M”, and vice versa.
              2. 0
                29 May 2024 12: 18
                There are also references in the Corner of the Sky, but I don’t see the need to delve that deeply, it’s clear that the F-5 turned out to be a good close-combat aircraft.

                As for the name, in the Soviet defense industry names were often not used, simply “product number such and such,” and proper names were given already at the time of release “to the general public,” so at the time of the described tests (which were carried out not by combat pilots, but factory test pilots) and the serial "23-11M, edition 2M" and the pre-production "23-12, edition 3" for Kondaurov were varieties of the Mig-23M. I also see no reason why Mig representatives should not use the latest version for testing.
                1. +1
                  30 May 2024 00: 10
                  Quote from solar
                  There are also links in the Corner of the Sky, but I don’t see the need to delve so deeply,

                  In vain. There is nothing in those links about the MiG-29ML and F-5. And the material in the Corner of Heaven without a signature. It is unknown who substituted the letter L.
                  Quote from solar
                  It is also clear that the F-5 turned out to be a good close-combat aircraft.

                  According to the rules by which the maneuvering was carried out.
                  Quote from solar
                  As for the name,

                  But then you began to write your fiction:
                  Quote from solar
                  so at the time of the described tests (which were carried out not by combat pilots, but by factory test pilots)

                  Kondaurov was not a factory test pilot. Kondaurov was a GLITs tester.
                  Quote from solar
                  Both the serial "23-11M, ed. 2M" and the pre-production "23-12, ed. 3" for Kondaurov were varieties of the Mig-23M.

                  You have a rich imagination: you’ve pretty much imagined what the “serial” 23-11M, ed., was for Kondaurov. 2M" and pre-production "23-12, ed. 3". Also "pre-production 23-12" in GLITs...
                  Quote from solar
                  I also see no reason why Mig representatives should not use the latest version for testing.

                  Kondaurov says MiG-23M, not MiG-23ML. These are completely different planes, and pilots even differentiate between the series.
                  1. 0
                    30 May 2024 00: 49
                    Kondaurov was a GLITs tester.

                    This is true. But not a combat pilot, like other test participants.
                    I don't understand the subject of your dispute.
                    It turned out that you blamed Linnik for adding the letter L in vain, that’s exactly how it is in the source - and it all comes down to who has the mistake - Kondaurov or the source.
                    You decided that Kondaurov had no mistake. You don't provide any evidence. I don't see what there is to argue with you about.
                    In vain. There is nothing in those links about the MiG-29ML and F-5. And the material in the Corner of Heaven without a signature. It is unknown who substituted the letter L.

                    You just didn't look at these links. This is written, for example, in the second link.
                    There is a detailed article about the F-5. “Modeler-constructor”, 2007, No. 03.
                    Or maybe there are other links.
    2. +2
      28 May 2024 14: 04
      "Tigers" in the skies of Vietnam were systematically snatched by their fangs

      .
      all USSR aircraft did not win a single training battle

      There is some kind of contradiction here - who did the Tigers snatch from then, if all the USSR aircraft lost all their training battles?
      1. Des
        +2
        28 May 2024 19: 09
        There is no data on F-5 battles with MiGs in Vietnam, alas.
      2. +2
        28 May 2024 23: 47
        Quote: siber
        There is some kind of contradiction here - who did the Tigers snatch from then, if all the USSR aircraft lost all their training battles?

        The tiger is toothless. During tests in the USSR, the task was to maintain visual contact. Therefore, the speed was below 750 km/h, where the Tiger had an advantage. But even here, the MiG-21, having turned on the afterburner, could exit maneuvering at any moment. In reality, at speeds above 800, the MiG-21 was stronger than the Tiger, and the advantage of the MiG-21 grew with further increases in speed. Therefore, during vertical maneuvering with a short-term loss of visual contact or during “hit and go” tactics, the MiG-21 had an advantage over the Tiger. Due to its low combat thrust-to-weight ratio, the Tiger could not take the initiative and dictate the terms of the battle to the enemy. And the Tiger could not implement the MiG-21 tactics in Vietnam.
        1. 0
          30 May 2024 09: 20
          During tests in the USSR, the task was to maintain visual contact.

          Of course it was. We were talking about BVB - then it was quite common.
      3. 0
        29 May 2024 00: 58
        Quote: siber
        ....who did the Tigers snatch from then?
        I think mainly from air defense systems... wink
  25. -3
    28 May 2024 08: 13
    "suffice it to remind you that we still have enough S-300 and S-400"
    What does "still" mean? This is said in the case when there is a regular or periodic loss of something, in the absence of replenishment to compensate for the loss.
    In our case, this is not at all the case.
    If we were talking, for example, about MiG 31 fighters, which are not in production (yet) and cannot be replaced by other aircraft, then the term “still” would be relevant.
  26. +2
    28 May 2024 08: 14
    I go to the site itself via a link from a channel of the same name in Telegram. And I get the feeling that the channel moderator or whoever is responsible for the content, specially pushes the most trashy and meaningless article there once every week or two. Here is another stream of consciousness.
    1. man
      0
      28 May 2024 09: 47
      Quote: Mikhail Toropov
      I go to the site itself via a link from a channel of the same name in Telegram. And I get the feeling that the channel moderator or whoever is responsible for the content, specially pushes the most trashy and meaningless article there once every week or two. Here is another stream of consciousness.

      The article is really so-so for this author, which doesn’t seem like him. He had many good articles.
      Comments from professionals are of much greater interest. hi
  27. +5
    28 May 2024 08: 20
    An airplane is a means of delivering cruise missiles, bombs, etc. It doesn’t matter what class or category it is. If he can deliver the same air-to-ground missile and fire it “painfully” without entering the enemy’s air defense zone, then this is already a big problem. Once again I remind the authors of the articles - stop engaging in “hypocrisy”. It would be better to wonder where these planes are based? If they came from outside, then where is the “response”? Or did the rulers turn on the return line?
    1. +2
      28 May 2024 08: 30
      If they came from outside, then where is the “response”? Or did the rulers turn on the return line?

      and no one was going to answer, all the menacing statements are made exclusively for the internal listener (so that citizens can live in peace: take out loans and mortgages, relax at resorts, watch vulgar TV shows, etc.)
    2. 0
      28 May 2024 09: 17
      They write that the sides Ukrainians to the launch line. And why won't they be shot down with missiles with a range of 300 km.
  28. +6
    28 May 2024 08: 36
    Somehow everything is too optimistic and joyful. The weaknesses of the product are indicated but nothing is said about the strengths. Life teaches only what it teaches nothing. The pretentious reports of 22 and jingoistic sentiments with mischief-making, it turns out, have not gone away even in the third year of the war, which was originally planned to be quick and victorious.
  29. +3
    28 May 2024 08: 37
    F-16s are carriers of long-range missiles. Therefore, there is no need to laugh. Serious blows to Russia await us. And we are already convinced that we do not have enough air defense. F-16s will be aimed at these holes of our air defense. Ukraine will definitely not capitulate this year!
  30. +2
    28 May 2024 08: 42
    How sickening it is to read this whiner’s story about the difficult fate of the F-16 in Ukraine....
    And where are the Iskander and Caliber strikes on the airfields of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the AIRCRAFT stored on them?
    OR CAN'T WE EVEN DO THIS ANYMORE?
  31. +8
    28 May 2024 08: 59
    Yes, yes, yes, author, “let’s click like seeds,” we heard, we know.
  32. +8
    28 May 2024 09: 01
    Moreover, it is doubtful, or rather, there is confidence, that the remnants of Ukrainian industry can master the production of JP8 and its unpleasant component, hydrazine, which must be stored separately.

    That is, only imports will help Ukrainian pilots.

    The above fragment of the article raises questions.
    JP8 aviation fuel does not contain hydrazine. Hydrazine is used to power the F-16's emergency power plant, which keeps electrical and hydraulic equipment running in the event of a main engine failure. Sealed containers (the cylindrical container in the center of the photo) containing the water-hydrazine mixture are supplied filled from the factory.
    As for the development of fuel production by Ukrainian industry, this question is not relevant today, since there is no fuel production in Ukraine. All fuel, both for the civilian sector and for the army, including the Ukrainian Air Force, is imported.
  33. +3
    28 May 2024 09: 13
    It’s interesting how on the radar screen you can determine whether it’s a Mig29 or an F16.
  34. +3
    28 May 2024 09: 43
    In general, it seems that the unkilled bear is divided first.
    And then there will be a stream of articles explaining why this happened...

    It is clear that single deliveries of “junk” (as the media wrote about them) will not make a difference.
    But articles explaining why the promised did not work out are published regularly...
  35. +5
    28 May 2024 10: 01
    Where is the self-propelled gun Pz.2000? Not much with them, many are under repair, some are all gone.
    Where are the Leopards? No comments at all.
    Where are the Challengers? They mostly hang around in the rear; somehow they didn’t make it to the front line.
    "Abrams"? Yes, too.

    Somehow the author modestly said nothing about Hymers, stormshadows and scalps... Well, I’ve been hearing the mantra “don’t radically change the situation on the battlefield...” since February 2022.
    Personally, I am inclined to believe that the Fu 16 was brought to Ukraine specifically for the launch of Storms, Scalps and JDAM-ER. If used on a massive scale, this could cause very, very significant damage to our troops. Well, we shouldn’t forget that they didn’t give a damn about yet another red-brown line of our guarantor. After all, how many times have we said that we will perceive the F-16 as a carrier of nuclear weapons. Will they really destroy tactical nuclear weapons at their home airfield?
    1. +5
      28 May 2024 10: 14
      as a carrier of nuclear weapons. Are they really going to waste tactical weapons? at the home airfield?


      But what about UAV raids on over-the-horizon radars?
      But what about our “doctrine”?
      and where is LADY, with his “tough” answers to the infidels?
      some questions...
    2. +3
      28 May 2024 14: 06
      It’s interesting that he didn’t say anything about Bradley.
      Apparently the video of its use cools down hotheads.
  36. +4
    28 May 2024 10: 10
    So the motto “Live fast, die young, leave a beautiful corpse” is very vital. And beautiful corpses will be useful for exhibitions on Poklonnaya Hill and in Patriot parks.


    optimistic...
    but don't say "gop" until you jump over!
    and they will cause problems through the roof
  37. +2
    28 May 2024 10: 17
    Don’t any of our air-to-air missiles fly further than ours? I read aim-120d range is higher than ours, plus it is fully active. Ours, if they exist, are more expensive and less common.
    1. +1
      28 May 2024 23: 28
      Quote: Reaper
      Don’t any of our air-to-air missiles fly further than ours? I read aim-120d range is higher than ours, plus it is fully active. Ours, if they exist, are more expensive and less common.

      Show me where to read this.
  38. +3
    28 May 2024 10: 58
    Quote: VovaVVS
    Why didn’t you come across something? For example, there was a clash in the border area between a Pakistani F-16 and an Indian MIG-21(!) with dire consequences for the first...


    If we turn to local conflicts. In 1982, in Operation Medvedka 19 in 1982, the Israeli Air Force using F-16s and F-15s destroyed about 80 Syrian MIG-21 and MIG-23 and almost three dozen air defense missile batteries, without losses on their part.
  39. -1
    28 May 2024 11: 06
    I love this propaganda. Western equipment is useless, our aces will blow F-16 from the sky, SU-35 will dominate the world...
    1. -5
      28 May 2024 14: 03
      Whether you like it or not, it will be so. If two green lieutenants on a Su 35S smeared four Korean colonels on Fu16 over the Sea of ​​Japan, then knowing that pilots of at least 2nd class are participating in the special operation, I am sure that Sushki will be beaten by Fu16 over Ukraine. Someone on FB has already announced a prize for Fu16 - brightlings with a commemorative inscription, so the guys are waiting and worrying that the award will go not to the fighters, but to the air defense missile system crew
      1. +2
        28 May 2024 15: 30
        If two green lieutenants on Su 35S smeared four Korean colonels on Fu16 over the Sea of ​​Japan

        What did you mean? share with readers
        1. -5
          28 May 2024 15: 46
          There was an incident with the Koreans here, two lieutenants were escorting a reconnaissance aircraft over the Sea of ​​Japan, the Koreans tried to force the reconnaissance aircraft off course in two flights. Four Fu-16s and two Fu-15s. The Fu-15s kept to the side, kept ours in their sights, and the Fu-16s tried to get to the reconnaissance aircraft. As a result of the scuffle, one Fu-16 went into a tailspin, one was pressed to the surface, screaming on the emergency frequency at an altitude of about 50 m. All four Fu-16s were in the "crosshairs" of the objective control in the photo, if the boys had worked with their guns, there would have been debris on the bottom. Upon their return, the lieutenants were given a demonstrative dressing down, approvingly patted on the shoulders after the flight analysis. The Koreans kept silent about the incident (our people understood from the transcripts that there were experienced colonels in the air), the Koreans probably also understood from the transcripts that they were done by two greenhorns who had not yet flown in the unit for a year, so apparently they did not make a fuss. Six months later, the group leader received the medal "For Military Valor" for that flight.
          1. +4
            28 May 2024 17: 43
            it looks like some kind of fairy tale, if you fall into a tailspin in a wake, it’s still possible, a turn like that on a plotter with a loss of height of three hundred feet (in fact, no), then it’s not possible to press someone to the surface, not in a crowd of two dozen cars, but by prior agreement with the person being pressed, it is of course possible, but...
            and guessing the pilot’s rank based on the manner of piloting during a routine and highly regulated non-reception, you know, it’s absolutely a mess, so it’s just a story
            1. -5
              28 May 2024 18: 20
              Well, it’s a story, but in the archives of the senior lieutenant there is a medal “For Military Valor” and the Order of Courage. Speaking of the ranks of pilots (and pilots too), they usually guess from call signs from radio intercepts
              1. 0
                2 June 2024 15: 37
                Speaking of the ranks of pilots (and pilots too), they usually guess from call signs from radio intercepts

                Well, I completely forgot, they communicate with each other in the open air, and Russian intelligence knows all the call signs of all Korean pilots, they are usually published in open sources, and the stupid Koreans send as many as 6 aircraft to intercept, 2 of which are F-15E are not intended for this, I don’t know why the starley received his awards, but he is a noble storyteller, and maybe it’s not even him, but you
                1. 0
                  2 June 2024 17: 01
                  Quote: Talon
                  Well, I completely forgot, they communicate with each other in the open air, and Russian intelligence knows all the call signs of all Korean pilots, they are usually published in open sources, and the stupid Koreans send as many as 6 aircraft to intercept, 2 of which are F-15E are not intended for this, I don’t know why the starley received his awards, but he is a noble storyteller, and maybe it’s not even him, but you

                  Well, whatever you want, intelligence should work, and it does. Maybe you think that negotiations with crews take place on the principles of quantum communication, but I’ll disappoint you - even US equipment uses radio communication, and it’s encrypted, but it can be intercepted and maybe even decrypted (if really necessary). For example, my unit is located nearby as a separate garrison, there are antennas, but they are not signalmen. As for how everything was tortured there, I don’t know, I don’t have access to know (I can only guess). This is as far as our listeners on earth are concerned. But what do you think the reconnaissance officer was doing on that flight? He didn’t go there to admire the views of the Korean Peninsula. By the way, I don’t know how the reconnaissance crew was rewarded, but knowing the coordinates of the turning point of the reconnaissance route, I am inclined to think that there could very well have been a government award there, and not a departmental one, like that of the senior fighter
                  Well, as for the “stupid Koreans”, who make up a fighter flight of two Fu16s and one Fu15K (why did you decide that they have a Fu15E, although that’s probably what it says in WikitoPia), well, ask them. Yes, by the way, the Koreans also know the call signs of our pilots, but this is apparently with the permission of our comrades, the majors; well, intelligence, and even Korean intelligence, cannot independently obtain such information.
    2. 0
      6 June 2024 02: 56
      Quote: Barking_one
      I love this propaganda...
      Just curious: how can you comprehend that propaganda, if you are not able to write in Russian? They speak Russian here, by the way, site rules
  40. +6
    28 May 2024 11: 17
    Reading the article left such an “aftertaste” that the author was warned not to write any more articles, well, it’s clear - “what kind” and to put more emphasis on “everything is not so bad”, and in some places - “it’s really good”... Actually , lately there has been absolutely nothing to read on VO, in terms of objectivity, all the articles are from the series “putting a good face on a bad game”...
    1. +1
      28 May 2024 14: 11
      Now it’s either this or TsIPSO (At least half of the Ur-Patriots know what this is?)
  41. +4
    28 May 2024 11: 44
    The hat flew off again...
    I’m wondering, how does Skomorokhov communicate with those fighting guys, soldiers and officers?
    Do they know what kind of hats he launches into space?
  42. 0
    28 May 2024 13: 29
    Quote: Coward
    Do you have all the necessary information, including classified information, on the basis of which you draw these conclusions? Or solely on the basis of information from military officers and all-propalistic comments?

    Yes, I have all the necessary information. It’s just that, unlike most of our citizens, I know how to critically evaluate it. Learn too, it may come in handy in life.
  43. +6
    28 May 2024 15: 22
    In my opinion, this super expert has already discussed the F-16? Why repeat the same thing, only in different words? Only the lazy have not discussed this ashcan. For some reason author cursed the F-5. It's a good plane, tests have shown that by most parameters it surpasses its peer MiG-21, and is not inferior to the later MiG-23.
  44. +6
    28 May 2024 15: 53
    That’s why in all our design bureaus we worked on the landing gear, for which gaps in the concrete runway slabs are of no concern (and they cannot be avoided due to significant temperature changes throughout almost the entire territory of the country), unlike the Americans, who can afford to build ideal runways, in no way inferior in smoothness to the decks of aircraft carriers.

    What, F-16s were not used outside the United States? For example, in Turkey, Chile or Pakistan? Or at Polish airfields? Or in Norway, where the temperature changes are just great? smile
  45. +4
    28 May 2024 18: 45
    In a word - little, late, useless.
  46. +2
    28 May 2024 20: 10
    The author would have been better off not writing about the Vietnamese F-5Es. They were flown in the USSR, had training battles with MiGs, which the F-5Es mostly won. And the phrase that the F-5Es got hit in the teeth is not true.
  47. +2
    28 May 2024 22: 23
    I understand, HURRAY? Or did I not understand something?
  48. 0
    28 May 2024 23: 34
    These Falcons can be used from ambushes. At night, such a plane lands somewhere near the LBS. They disguise it with all sorts of crap and wait. Target designation comes, he takes off, fires missiles - and takes off. Lands at the airfield already in the depths. Vietnam tactics with the same Americans. Quite successful
  49. -1
    29 May 2024 07: 38
    Quote: Arzt

    These complexes have been being diligently cleaned up lately, if you have noticed. And not only these. Clearing the skies for the F-16. Yes

    It looks like it.
    In Lugansk on May 27, according to satellite images, the Nebo-m radar system appears to have been destroyed.
  50. 0
    29 May 2024 11: 59
    Analyzing the article by R. Skomorokhov, I conclude that until this aircraft appears in the theater of operations of the Ukrainian Reich, there is no point in "kicking" it, by definition... Once it appears, we will discuss, argue, talk... But for now, all this is about nothing. Idle talk, nothing more... One thing can be said, that this is one of the successful aircraft of American design and production thought, the most widespread in the NATO Air Force, with a large modernization reserve, very successfully fitting into the niche of light fighters... True, and with its "jambs" in the form of certain design features and requiring an attitude to itself, "You", from the pilot and engineering and technical staff... That's how it is about the F-16...
  51. 0
    29 May 2024 13: 45
    Quote from solar
    There are no slots cut off
    It turned out that he was dissatisfied with the quality of our runway - the seams were too deep and the surface of the concrete slabs was damaged. Could not resist. One bolt was cut off, and the cylinder rod and wheel rotated 360°. - Beautiful! This doesn’t happen with ours,” I patted the stranger “on the nose” and whispered “in his ear”: “Don’t worry, now they’ll insert such a bolt into you - you’ll be galloping across the steppe!”

    Yes, you will first understand the issue.
    All aviation equipment has slotted joints on the struts. They perceive lateral forces, that is, they hold the landing gear strictly along the axis of the aircraft.
    And with a broken spline joint, indeed, this chassis trolley will rotate a full 360°.
  52. -1
    29 May 2024 15: 07
    if on combat there is the same difference in direct and reverse attitude indicators as on civilian ones, at least one in the civil service will crash for this reason
  53. 0
    30 May 2024 08: 13
    More tales about how Western technology will not work in Ukraine. However, everything that has already been installed works. And it works very well. In any case, no worse than museum exhibits of the Russian army. We need to prepare for the fight against the F-16, and not throw hats into articles.
  54. 0
    31 May 2024 13: 30
    Quote: Alexey RA
    What, F-16s were not used outside the United States? For example, in Turkey, Chile or Pakistan? Or at Polish airfields? Or in Norway, where the temperature changes are just great?


    How wonderful it is with the quality of the runway strips, the training of technical personnel, and so on. Comparing Ukrainian sloppiness with the Norwegian “Ordnung” is a clear plus for karma. laughing
  55. 0
    31 May 2024 13: 33
    Quote: futurohunter
    It’s a good plane, tests have shown that, according to most data, it is superior to its peer MiG-21, and is not inferior to the later MiG-23.


    It is not inferior - only at close ranges, in maneuverable combat. At a greater distance, he lost battles.
    For some reason, the Yankees themselves didn’t really buy it; apparently they weren’t happy with the “tiger” for some reason.
  56. 0
    3 June 2024 10: 23
    I wouldn’t do a squat dance, they say, the Falcons and I will deal like two fingers on the asphalt. This has already happened, both with the Hymers and with Soviet equipment from Eastern Europe, and they shed a lot of blood.
    For example, Falcons can launch salvo missiles into Crimea from Romanian airspace. Or from an ultra-low altitude from the Black Sea across the North Caucasus. At the same time, hide in the ranks of NATO fighters, which will supposedly carry out training flights over the sea. SAM systems in these cases will be ineffective. Of course, in these cases, our Sukhoi can be sent to intercept to control the situation over the Black Sea in order to visually determine the identity of the aircraft, but the small number of our Air Force will allow NATO to be overloaded. Constant flights of their aircraft, when it is impossible to determine whether the Wehrmacht's Falcons are in service or not, can lead to the fact that at some point there simply are no Su's ready to take off.
    The danger should not be downplayed. Yes, Falcons are not capable of conducting an air battle, but they are quite capable of flying up at an ultra-low altitude, “jumping” and launching a long-range cruise missile. And, unfortunately, losses from Falcon attacks will be inevitable.
  57. 0
    6 June 2024 19: 58
    I believe these Falcons are being converted over the next decade or two for autonomous capability.

    They are upgraded to aircraft with an optional human pilot. The fly by wire design makes this relatively simple to be upgraded for "self-driving capability" assuming you already have AI pilot modules.

    I've heard China (and perhaps North Korea) is converting older Migs (my memory is foggy, but I think Mig-19 or similar type of that era) to drones.

    I believe the feature to optionally allow a pilot to operate the aircraft is a superior advantage over a drone. Often, people can quickly and more competently do tasks that are complicated or time consuming to program computers to do.

    These autonomous F-16's also have an advantage: you cannot distinguish a drone from the piloted aircraft.

    The same "self-driving" upgrade could be done just as easily to Mig-25 with the addition of a small canard near the front of the intakes (smaller than Su-34 canards, and electronically driven. For roll control and landing one set of flaps would also need to be upgraded to be electronically driven.)... and perhaps even with similar radar appearance from Mig-31's.
  58. 0
    5 August 2024 19: 37
    Yes, it won't be able to intercept cruise missiles, the radar, flight altitude, reaction time and weapons simply won't allow it. The F16 is not a MiG-31, it is not designed for cruise missiles. To intercept a cruise missile, it needs to rise high enough, and then a missile from a Su-35 or 57 will fly at it.
  59. 0
    25 August 2024 14: 20
    ...nothing has a future in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
    Well, yes, of course, that’s exactly it, without a doubt. After all, there are gaps and all sorts of things between the runway slabs. The arguments are simply "brilliant"
  60. 0
    25 August 2024 14: 28
    Quote: Zoldat_A
    I didn’t fly airplanes, I didn’t have to.

    Then your comment is very valuable for the F-16 topic