Ambitious Marshal of the Soviet Union

16 February of this year marks the 120 anniversary of the birth of Mikhail Tukhachevsky, one of the most controversial commanders of the Soviet period. Historians either hate or idolize him. One he is seen as an executioner who drowned the Kronstadt revolt and peasant unrest in the Tambov province in blood, the other - a talented military leader and theorist who developed the foundations of Soviet military affairs. But all agree on one thing - this man left a bright mark on the political reality of the last century. Having rejected any prejudices, we will try to look at the life of this person ....

The genus Tukhachevsky is known to researchers of dynasties from the thirteenth century. It was his ancestors who gave birth to the illustrious Tolstoy family. Mikhail's father, Nikolai Nikolayevich Tukhachevsky, was descended from impoverished noblemen of Polish origin. He married a semi-literate peasant Mavra Petrovna, who bore him nine children: four sons and five daughters. They lived in the estate of Alexander, located in the province of Smolensk.

Mikhail Tukhachevsky was the third child in the family, born in the 1893 year. In early childhood, he was an exceptionally agile, hyperactive boy who could not be ignored for a minute. To look after him, the parents even had to take a separate nanny, because the nurse, who was in common with all the children, could not keep up with Misha. He learned the letter early, read a lot (in three languages), was always drawn to new knowledge and was interested in music. Already in adolescence, remarkable artistic and literary abilities of the future commander began to appear. Parents often staged performances at home, in which all family members took part. Mikhail independently composed plays for them, where he always assigned himself to leading roles. After asking for a violin from his parents, he learned to play it pretty well. A few months before his death, in the spring of 1937, he, playing the part for his sister, sadly noted: “And why didn’t I decide to become a musician? I would be a good violinist now. ” Also all his life he was engaged in writing activities, historians know more than one hundred and twenty of his works. True, they are all scientific works on military topics. In his youth, Tukhachevsky was fond of horse riding, dancing and wrestling. Contemporaries noted that he was beautifully built, very handsome and charismatic.

Later, Mikhail entered the first Moscow Cadet Corps, where he immediately stood out thanks to a sharp mind, physical abilities and excellent diligence. Teachers noted that “warfare is the true vocation of this boy.” Because of his exceptional abilities, he was even personally introduced to Nicholas II. However, there were less biased moments. In the case he had no friends at all, and not at all because he was a closed or timid youth. On the contrary, everyone was well aware of his desire for absolute leadership and cruelty towards others. They were afraid of hostility with him, since he knew no mercy, and he behaved like a despot with younger cadets.

It is quite natural that he graduated from the school with the best in academic performance, after which he was sent, as he dreamed, to the Semenov regiment. Tukhachevsky took part in the First World War, and even detractors noted his bravery on the battlefield and in intelligence. The courage, bordered often with recklessness, more than once will let him down in the future. In the end, for the heroism shown, he presented himself five times with orders of various degrees (five orders in six months), Mikhail was taken prisoner.

There is a legend about four unsuccessful escape attempts made by Tukhachevsky. But historical there is no evidence of this. It is only known that after some time Mikhail was sent to the international concentration camp Ingolstadt. According to some reports, the fortress was a gathering place for captured officers who, for various reasons, were noticed by German intelligence. The most famous prisoners of this camp were Charles de Gaulle and Louis Rivet.

In Ingolstadt, Second Lieutenant Tukhachevsky met Charles de Gaulle. Something like friendship ensued between them, the future president of France always noted the extraordinary “audacity and courage” of the Russian captive. In 1936, Tukhachevsky attended a meeting of concentration camp prisoners in Paris. And in the 1966 year, when de Gaulle came to Moscow, he wished to see the sisters of the late marshal. Of course, he politely but firmly refused. Relatives did not even know about the desire of a distinguished Frenchman.

It is not known under what conditions the prisoners were held in the fortress of Ingolstadt, but they were sometimes allowed to go out into the city as a walk.

Taking advantage of this, on August 3 of 1917 of the year Tukhachevsky made another, fifth (in a year and a half) attempt to escape. She was successful, and in October 1917, he returned to his homeland.

While still in prison, Tukhachevsky began to sympathize with the Bolsheviks. He wrote: “If Lenin rid Russia of old prejudices, if he makes her a strong power, then I choose Marxism.” Voluntarily joining the Red Army in March 1918, by June he was already the commander of the First Army of the Eastern Front.

Possessing an oratorical gift, Tukhachevsky became the initiator of the recording of former royal officers in the Red Army. However, he convinced them not only with words. From his order: “For the organization of an efficient army we need experienced leaders. Therefore, I order the former officers to come to me immediately. Those who do not appear will be given to the military court. ” Although Tukhachevsky himself wrote about this: "I helped them go with the people, and not against it." The officers followed him. And soon, despite the aristocratic appearance, he managed to gain confidence from the soldiers. During the Civil War in Russia, a twenty-six-year-old red commander became famous on various fronts, crowding Krasnov and Denikin, burning out anti-Soviet sentiments in Russia with fire and sword.

Among the commanders of the Red Army, Mikhail Tukhachevsky had no friends or acquaintances. Many characterized him as an able second lieutenant who was very lucky in life. Already in the early twenties, Tukhachevsky was noted on the Special Section. On the dossier he was presented as a talented leader. But his main problem lay in human qualities. He was characterized as an overbearing and cunning commander, who does not tolerate objections and criticisms of his actions. That is why he chose weak-minded and obsequious subordinates, fully creeping before his authority. It was also noted that Tukhachevsky neglected questions of strategy and tactics in the preparation of military operations, being interested only in administrative parties.

In 1919, the year for the defeat of Kolchak Tukhachevsky was honored with the highest award in those days - the Honorary Revolutionary weapons together with the Order of the Red Banner. Having won many exemplary victories from a military point of view, he became famous for his ability to clearly deliver army work. However, the largest battle in his life for Warsaw, Mikhail Tukhachevsky lost in all respects.

The Soviet-Polish war began with the fact that the Poles mobilized about a million people. The allies helped them with equipment and money. The backbone of the army was the 70-thousandth corps of General Galler, formed from the French Poles who went through the war. Aviation represented by American pilots. The intelligence of the Red Army, which was in its infancy, missed all these large-scale preparations. In the spring of 1920, the commander of the Polish forces Pilsudski hit in the Zhytomyr direction. Units of the Red Army organized from the Galicians revolted, the front was exposed, and no one remained in the way of the Poles. Having traveled almost two hundred kilometers, occupying Kiev without a fight and capturing many prisoners, the enemy troops stopped on the banks of the Dnieper.

But the Soviet government was not going to give up. A massive transfer of troops to the Polish front began, and the General Staff issued a well-known appeal "To all former officers ...", after which, to save the Motherland from the Poles, everyone who had recently fought for the whites, hid from arrests, sat in prisons began to save. Mikhail Tukhachevsky, appointed commander of the Western Front, decided to defeat the Polish army in one swift rush in the direction of Warsaw. True, the very first attempts to break through the enemy defenses near the Berezina River failed. Then the First Cavalry Army came to the rescue, incorporating all the advanced techniques of the time: armored trains, artillery, airplanes and the invention of the Makhnovists, the famous carts. At the beginning of summer, the advance guard of the army of Budyonny broke through the front and rushed uncontrollably to Volyn. Here and Tukhachevsky began to rapidly advance in the north. The Poles quivered and ran. In just a few days, the troops of Mikhail Nikolayevich rushed past Minsk, Brest, along the Lithuanian border, through Vilna and Grodno, until they were on Polish soil.

MN Tukhachevsky 1935. Postcard. Central Bank of the FSB of the Russian Federation. A C D Number P-5159

No one has seen such raids since the days of Napoleon. Pilsudski was depressed, the Allies had already buried Poland. Tukhachevsky, considering himself a new Suvorov, appointed the capture of Warsaw on August 12. To this end, he decided to go around the Polish capital from the west and north, attacking directions unexpected from the enemy. Not knowing the size and location of enemy troops, Tukhachevsky independently climbed into the bag between the main forces of the Poles and the German border. In mid-August, selected Polish troops of General Haller, inflicting a series of counterattacks, to their own surprise were in the rear of the Reds. Be near the First Horse, Galler would definitely not be good, but she got stuck in the battles near Lvov. Already much later the opinion appeared that Joseph Vissarionovich was to blame for everything. Indeed, Stalin opposed the relocation of Budyonny's troops to the north. However, this had a rational basis. He saw that the cavalry army was exhausted by fighting and was not capable of such a dash. But the headquarters of Tukhachevsky could not properly assess the strength of the Poles.

Soon, half of Tukhachevsky's troops were pressed to the German border. All attempts to break through to the east ended in failure. Then the troops retreated to the lands of East Prussia, where they were interned. It was a disaster. The Bolsheviks had no choice but to negotiate.

Known to Tukhachevsky's strange affection for Dmitri Shostakovich. When the great composer, a patient with tuberculosis, worked as a pianist in cinemas, it was only thanks to the efforts of Marshal Shostakovich that it was proposed to create a symphony for the decade of October. After her performance he became famous. And after Pravda published a derogatory review article, Muddle instead of Music, Mikhail Nikolayevich was one of the few who dared to openly support desperate Shostakovich.

In the thirties, in all subsequent posts, Mikhail Nikolaevich punched the idea of ​​militarizing the country's economy. He put forward proposals to increase the number of divisions, to develop artillery, aviation, tank troops. However, his calculations contained fabulous figures, for example, on the possibility of producing one hundred thousand tanks a year in the USSR. Stalin pointed out to the marshal the delirious nature of this venture, calling it "red militarism." Also, the leader’s other mistakes include emphasis on the development of recoilless artillery to the detriment of further study of the rifled barrel, the abolition of the production of a successful 37-mm anti-tank gun, and the refusal to introduce mortars. Large funds were spent by the marshal on the study of unpromising weapons.

Soviet military leaders. 1921 d. In the first row: far left - M.N. Tukhachevsky; in the center - S.M. Budyuyen; extreme right - P. E. Dybenko

But Tukhachevsky personally participated in the maneuvers of the army and fleet, analyzed their results and developed measures to improve command and control. Seeing in tanks the main force of future wars, he studied the forced deployment of mechanized formations, created the theory of deep combat and continuous operations in one direction. Being a supporter of an offensive strategy, he advocated the independence of small units. In 1932, thanks to him, work began on the creation of rocket engines, and in 1933 a Jet Research Institute specializing in the development of rocket weapons was built.

Mikhail Tukhachevsky had very few friends, preferring them to a female society. The handsome marshal seemed to have some special influence on the beautiful half of humanity. The higher up the career ladder Tukhachevsky rose, the more women surrounded him. The true number of Marshal's mistresses is incalculable.

He met his first wife while still at the gymnasium. Her name was Maria, she was the engineer's daughter and committed suicide shortly after their wedding. According to one of the versions, she could not bear the numerous betrayals of her husband, according to the other, Mikhail himself demanded a divorce. In any case, Tukhachevsky was implicated in this, Maria shot herself in the head directly at his headquarters car. He did not come to the funeral, but soon he again married sixteen-year-old Lika. Defying party ethics, the military leader married her in church. However, this did not keep him from numerous intrigues on the side, and their union broke up after a short time. And in the 1923 year, Tukhachevsky seduced the wife of the political commissar of the fourth rifle division, Nina Grinevich. They got married, but five years later the marshal was attracted by the wife of Nikolai Kuzmin’s former friend, Julia. He did not divorce Nina Grinevich, but until the very 1937 of the year he lived with Kuzmina.

In the spring of 1937, Tukhachevsky, the former Deputy Commissar of Defense, was unexpectedly not allowed George VI to coronation to London. Perhaps, even then, he realized that the end was near. On May 11, Mikhail Nikolayevich was removed from his post and sent to command the Privolzhsky Military District in Kuibyshev. Before leaving, Stalin put his hand on his shoulder and promised that he would soon return the marshal to the capital. Joseph Vissarionovich kept his word, already 24 of May Tukhachevsky was really returned to Moscow. Only in handcuffs and under guard. The arrest of Mikhail Nikolayevich was carried out by a representative of the NKVD, the old Bolshevik Rudolf Nelke. Tukhachevsky just arrived in Kuibyshev and came to the regional committee to get acquainted with the local leadership. In the office of the first secretary was already waiting for him. When the marshal opened the door, he immediately understood everything. After a pause, Tukhachevsky waved his hand and crossed the threshold. When Nelke said that he had an order for his arrest, Mikhail Nikolayevich silently sat in a chair. He was offered to wear civilian clothes, which were delivered by the Chekists, but he did not respond. Then the prisoners, tearing the military uniform, independently disguised the marshal. Rudolf Nelke was shot several months later.

First Marshals of the Soviet Union. Sit (from left to right): M.N. Tukhachevsky, K.E. Voroshilov, A.I. Egorov. Standing: S. M. Budyonny and V. K. Blucher. 1935

The first recognition Tukhachevsky gave already 26 May. A note written in the name of Yezhov read: “... I inform you that I recognize the existence of an anti-Soviet military-Trotskyist conspiracy, as well as the fact that I headed it. I promise to state to the investigation everything that affects the conspiracy, without hiding any of the participants and not a single document or fact. Mikhail Tukhachevsky. Why did he break down so quickly? On this account there are several versions. First, you should not detract from the art of the shoulder masters from the Lubyanka. The torture in the walls of this building was fantastic. Tukhachevsky’s daughter later told how her young child was brought to her father and wanted to be raped. From other sources, a naked marshal was tied to a pole, and an iron tube with rats was attached to the genital organ ... Documentary evidence of the episodes described is not, but the handwritten confessions of Tukhachevsky are preserved. Even without graphological research, it is clear that they were written in various emotional and physical states. The letters constantly dance, the lines are blurred, the handwriting and the style change. The pages are smeared with brown spots, which, according to the defense lab's medical laboratory, are blood. At the end of the interrogations with his own handwritten papers, Tukhachevsky is becoming less and less, they are replaced with typewritten with his signatures.

Was he really plotting or not? In this regard, the opinions of researchers are still divided. Most likely, yes, too many facts and information in support of this have been collected. However, the scale of the conspiracy, as well as its relationship with German intelligence, are still in doubt, many more mysteries remain in this story. At the conclusion of the investigation, Tukhachevsky was found guilty of organizing a military conspiracy to forcibly overthrow the government and establish a military dictatorship. He was also charged with actions for the collapse of the Red Army and the transfer to the German intelligence of secret information about the number and deployment of Soviet troops near the border. On 12 on June 1937, Mikhail Nikolayevich Tukhachevsky and seven other accused were shot in the basement of the Military College.

There is a myth that Tukhachevsky, as the most brilliant commander of the USSR, was afraid of Hitler, who was preparing for war. According to the Nazis, only he could adequately prepare our armed forces. Therefore, a plan appeared to discredit the marshal in the eyes of the party leadership. All the conspiracy papers were made by German special services and included a number of real facts about Tukhachevsky’s meetings with the military of the Third Reich, which took place in the framework of cooperation between Russia and Germany. After the dossier was planted by Soviet intelligence, becoming the basis of the charges of the marshal. Meanwhile, there is no evidence of this, except for the statement of Hitler in his last interview: "Stalin did a brilliant act by organizing a purge in the Russian army ...".

Cover investigative case M.N.Tukhachevskogo. 1937 Central Bank of the FSB RF AD. P-9000

On the next day after the execution, the pages of Soviet newspapers simply came with hysterical headlines: “People who the whole country admired”, “Smashing blow to German intelligence”, ”“ Court verdict - confirmation of our power ”were exposed. Hate, fear, self-preservation instinct seized people's hearts. At Moscow factories and factories, crowded rallies were held, the workers, trying to shout over each other, expressed their approval of the verdict of the court, considering the execution to be a very easy death to the traitors.

After the liquidation of the marshal in the Red Army, mass repressions began. Also, Stalin did not spare almost any of Tukhachevsky’s relatives, wanting to exterminate almost his entire family. Brothers, sisters, the last wife, daughters, husbands and wives of brothers and sisters went into exile or were shot. Her mother, Mavra Petrovna, died in exile, not having learned about the terrible fate of the majority of her children and grandchildren. All property of the deceased marshal, up to personal correspondence and photographs, was confiscated and destroyed.

Almost twenty years later, during the Khrushchev thaw, Mikhail Tukhachevsky was rehabilitated. The country's leadership has fallen to the other extreme, declaring him almost the most brilliant commander of our country. His works on military history and theory were reprinted, although by this time they were inevitably outdated. And successful operations conducted by him against Denikin and Kolchak began to be studied in academies.

Mikhail Nikolayevich forever remained in history as the youngest Soviet marshal, having made a brilliant military career that ended, one might say, at the very takeoff. He was one of the main military commanders of the largest army in the world, he was happily accepted in the highest military circles of Paris, London, and Berlin. Shortly after the process, as well as later during the period of rehabilitation, books and articles on Tukhachevskiy appeared in different countries and in different languages. At first they imagined him to be similar to Bonaparte, a commander who lost the political battle to Joseph Stalin. In the fifties, the emphasis shifted towards the innocent victim of the thirties terror, a failed alternative to the command of the Russian Army in World War II. However, in all his works, Tukhachevsky appears as an extraordinary, global figure.

So why did Tukhachevsky take the side of the Red power, why did he join the deadly game with her? He could settle together with representatives of the white movement in some European country. Or, for example, go to the service in the Reichswehr, become a general and lead a division or corps (at best, as a talented foreigner). I dare to suggest that he would have lived much longer then.

If we do not touch upon the questions of patriotism, which seem to be not the most important motive in all the actions of the ambitious Guards Second Lieutenant, Tukhachevsky’s main dream, as many memoirists admit, was the desire to create the greatest army in history. And also to lead it and lead it into battle, say, during the proletarian world revolution. For the sake of this goal, he went on everything: he became an ally of the Bolsheviks, gassed the peasants from Tambov, shot the Kronstadt sailors, spent huge amounts of money on the manufacture of weapons ... With such an independent character and intelligence, there was no chance of surviving under totalitarian conditions. It is not known how the course of the most terrible war in the history of our country would have been had it been in the ranks of Soviet commanders. However, World War II ended up without him.

Information sources:
-http: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/
-http: //www.vokrugsveta.ru/vs/article/6841/
-http: //militera.lib.ru/bio/sokolov/09.html
-http: //www.liveinternet.ru/users/1758119/post67411288/
-http: //eg.ru/daily/politics/10058/
-http: //clubs.ya.ru/zh-zl/replies.xml? item_no = 3853
-http: //izvestia.ru/news/287239#ixzz2KpzZYVvH

Comments

[ochakow703]

I wonder how many versions of Tukhachevsky’s biography still exist?

[avreli]

I look at the portraits and the phrase “from impoverished noblemen of Polish descent” raises considerable doubts. Well, compared to other marshals, for example.
Vida is a character of some Middle Eastern, however.

[EW]

Oh, this notorious and unnecessary "political correctness" ...
He is a Jewish species.

[подводник]

Jewish Jew ....

As well as his accomplices: Gamarnik, Uborevich, Yakir .......

[Moritz]

still yes
that's why people increasingly recalls I.V. Stalin

[Karlsonn]

Quote: submariner

Jewish Jew ....

As well as his accomplices: Gamarnik, Uborevich, Yakir .......

So what? supposedly if a Jew is a stigma? Kick-ass I sometimes afiguev with such Nazi presenting.

[EW]

Is it a Nazi presentation to call a Jew a Jew? And you yourself said about the stigma.
What does this site do with people? ... I remember Karlsonnа Colonel, then you did not write such nonsense.

[Volkh]

It's just that they crap crap that's all.

[vyatom]

Carslson - I think the Jewish last name

[Kortik]

Rather, something Semitic in facial features slips ...

[Witch]

Quote: avreli

Vida is a character of some Middle Eastern, however.

So the Polish gentry did not hesitate to relate to representatives of this people ...
Here is the corresponding vidoc ....

[donchepano]

Yes, the "genius" commander.
So "talented" that even words cannot be found right away.
Isn't that the brilliant and most talented commander who seems to be shooting guns from the cannons and poisoning the village with the rebellious peasantry in which the young women and old women were held with IPRIT gas in the Tambov province ?.
Although his "exploits" probably pale against the background of the exploits of the destroyers of the USSR, perestroika, of the last 20 years

[does it]

Quote: donchepano

Isn't that the brilliant and most talented commander who seems to be shooting guns from the cannons and poisoning the village with the rebellious peasantry in which the young women and old women were held with IPRIT gas in the Tambov province ?.

he carried out the order of a superior! in the history of Russia such cases are not few.

[Karlsonn]

does it

Quote: kvirit

there are many such cases in Russian history

Russia is written with a capital letter!
Go back to the desk.

[vyatom]

This does not justify this moral monster.

[brelok]

And who is Suvorov for you? He also did not like to recall one fact from his life. The defeat of Vostan Pugachev was his direct merit. In Bashkiria, at the same time, whole villages were burned as an example (Eldyak fortress). And Suvorov commanded this. The order is a great thing.! If you served in the army, then you know that.

[datur]

brelokTHERE IS A NAME-ORDER THIS HOLY !!!!!

[postman]

Quote: datur

brelok, HERE is NAME-order is HOLY !!!!!

What then to do with the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg?
The International Military Tribunal sentenced:
To death by hanging: Hermann Goering, Joachim von Ribbentrop, Wilhelm Keitel, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, Alfred Rosenberg, Hans Frank, Wilhelm Frick, Julius Streicher, Fritz Sauckel, Arthur Zeiss-Inquart, Jared Martin Borm.
To life imprisonment: Rudolf Hess, Walter Funck and Erich Raeder.
To 20 years in prison: Baldur von Schirach and Albert Speer.
To 15 years in prison: Konstantin von Neurath.
To 10 years in prison: Karla Dönitz.

War crimes, as defined by the Rome Statute (Charter) of the International Criminal Court, are serious violations of the Geneva Conventions, as well as other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflicts. [
These include:
intentional killing;
the use of prohibited means and methods of warfare;
torture or inhuman treatment;
intentional infliction of severe suffering;
deportation or illegal movement of the population;
the treacherous use of the emblem of the red cross, red crescent and red crystal, etc.
senseless destruction of cities and other settlements; destruction of cultural property
War crimes should be distinguished from military crimes.

[does it]

Quote: datur

brelok, HERE is NAME-order is HOLY !!!!!

and I remembered the phrase about the German army "the order replaced their conscience" tightly connected with the blasphemous oath before the Fuhrer, God and Germany.

[s1н7т]

Quote: datur

brelok, HERE is NAME-order is HOLY !!!!!

They said: the task is above all. And I agree with that. In a war / army, it cannot be otherwise.

[Yoshkin Kot]

N-dya, think, but who are these Russians ... who considered goyim for people?

[Fox]

Quote: brelok

And who is Suvorov for you ?.

Suvorov fought not with his people, but with the regular army of another Power.

[Pushkar]

With the power of Emelyan Pugachev. Now everything is clear.

[воронов]

The uprising Kostyushko A.V. Suvorov suppressed and did the right thing

[does it]

Quote: brelok

And who is Suvorov for you?. He also did not like to recall one fact from his life.

for me personally, he is a hero of Russia, the best of the best! like many others from the tsarist and Soviet periods. but about the bad facts from life, ask anyone; "you like to remember negative moments from your life" I think most of them will answer "no"

[Zynaps]

only here's the trouble - the suppression of the Antonov rebellion was a normal police operation, the villages were not burned or shot, there was no mustard gas in the Red Army at that time (bandits and deserters were smoked from the swamps in which they were hiding, art grenades with chloropicrin - a substance like the famous "bird cherry"), the rebels were not angels in the flesh and their backbone consisted of a criminal element and deserters with lovers of women and easy money who joined them. typical rural herons, bred in the Civilian due to the weakness of the government and the lack of proper police supervision.

we go to the website of the Tambov University and look for material - I personally took the studies from there and read them 10 years ago. Do not eat rotten meat in the retelling of the media and filmmakers!

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Zynaps

I personally took the research from there and read it 10 years ago. Do not eat rotten meat in the retelling of the media and filmmakers!

Zynaps

When the following films are made for a wide screening with government money for the Day of Reconciliation:


liberal howl and science fiction stories like:
Firstly, do not belittle the art of shoulder-making by masters from the Lubyanka. The torture in the walls of this building was invented fantastic. Tukhachevsky’s daughter later told how she, a youngster, was brought to her father and wanted to rape. From other sources, the naked marshal was tied to a pole, and an iron tube with rats was put on the genitals .... There is no documentary evidence of the described episodes, but the handwritten confessions of Tukhachevsky have been preserved.
no longer surprise.

[Karlsonn]

brelok

Quote: brelok

And who is Suvorov for you? He also did not like to recall one fact from his life. The defeat of Vostan Pugachev was his direct merit. In our case, in Bashkiria, whole villages were burned as an example (Yeldyak fortress). And Suvorov commanded this.

Expand how many nobles of their wives and children were destroyed, how many soldiers and civil servants died during the Pugachev uprising, how many priests and monks were sent to the other world by rebels (contemporaries write about ravines littered with corpses).

Quote: brelok

At the same time, in our Bashkiria, whole villages were burned as an example (Eldyak fortress).

or maybe for what? It is especially interesting what the civilized Europeans did to pacify the uprisings in their homeland, they say that the British even tied to guns and fired - do they lie?

[vitya29111973]

If you compare the units, compared with the Bolsheviks !!!!

[Yoshkin Kot]

remind you what Pugachev did in the cities? or that he suppressed the Polish uprising to blame him? not remember that the "rebels" massacred unarmed soldiers in the church?

[Alex]

Quote: brelok

And who is Suvorov for you? He also did not like to recall one fact from his life. The defeat of Vostaniy Pugachev is his direct merit.

But Suvorov was not particularly complex about the suppression of riots. And how could the Russian landowner-nobleman, who took the oath to the EMPRESS (EMPEROR), and not the PEOPLE, relate to the rebels? Yes, I didn’t feel happiness from this and I didn’t take it as my credit (unlike the same, for example, Muravyov the hangman, who lived a little later), and he appreciated the uniform of the general of the Russian army higher than the gendarme, but fulfilled duty. By the way, at that time there were no specialized organizations for the suppression of popular unrest, the army as an external one. so in the internal security provided.
But Mr. Tukhachevsky, so apparently, was mistaken by the kind of troops. He wouldn’t have a career in the Red Army, in the CHON and the NKVD — that’s where he would have succeeded.

[datur]

donchepanoWell, actually, he complied with the order- (cruel) quickly and efficiently1

[donchepano]

Quote: datur

actually, he complied with the order- (cruel) quickly and efficiently

Quote: Zynaps

Chloropicrin and phosgene have been used.

[

Quote: Zynaps

in the Army and in the Red Army ..x years .. mustard gas was not at all - read at least some literature on the state of military chemistry. for artillery .. a couple of types of gas grenades .. from phosgene and chloropicrin.

I answer to all the defenders of the "Ingenious PALKAvodtsa"
I feel like (drum)
TUJACH shot surrounded villages with old women and children?
Shot!
Used OB gases?
Applied!
So a MILITARY CRIMINAL!

HERE FOR THIS AND SHOT IT! LET EVEN AND PERSONALLY COMRADE STALIN. I'M NOT AGAINST.
EVEN APPLAUSE!
STANDING

[Karlsonn]

Quote: donchepano

I answer to all the defenders of the "Ingenious PALKAvodtsa"

Quote: donchepano

HERE FOR THIS AND SHOT IT! LET EVEN AND PERSONALLY COMRADE STALIN. I'M NOT AGAINST.

Likewise, there was a reason to clean up this "genius", a victim of Stalin's repressions, e-mine, so let us rehabilitate Trotsky and his labor armies with Yezhov for one thing.
If he hadn’t put this jerk to the walls on time, he would have done such a mess that it’s scary to imagine.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Karlsonn

If he hadn’t put this jerk to the walls on time, he would have done such a mess that it’s scary to imagine.

It would be interesting to see from somewhere in outer space what would happen if Stalin didn’t shoot the entire Lenin Guard in time for which feverish delirium about the world revolution was the norm

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Ruslan67

It would be interesting to see from somewhere in outer space what would happen if Stalin didn’t shoot the entire Lenin Guard in time for which feverish delirium about the world revolution was the norm

It's simple, you and I would not be alive.

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Karlsonn

It's simple, you and I would not be alive.

Here I do not agree with you!
If there were us, there was someone else. but Russia would have fallen in love!

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Choi is alive

Here I do not agree with you!

I am not the ultimate truth, I am simply expressing my personal opinion.

Quote: Choi is alive

If there were us, there was someone else. but Russia would have fallen in love!

without the industrialization of the 30s we would not have been.

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Karlsonn

without the industrialization of the 30s we would not have been.

It seems to me that without it we could survive (and if there wouldn’t be a revolution?)
Here is the question, so the question?

[Yoshkin Kot]

namely, they would have burned up in the steam-powered furnace of the "world gayvolution", clearing the way for the Jews to power!

[constant-danil]

so "world gayvolution" is now clearing the way in Europe ...

[Volkh]

For example? And whom do you call a moron?

[Yoshkin Kot]

I join and applaud STANDING!

[Pushkar]

During the suppression of the Tambov uprising, shells with OM were not used, although they were requested and received by artillery. Do not hang anything superfluous on him; genuine guilt is enough.

[Zynaps]

chloropicrin and phosgene were used. Moreover, the use of phosgene was quickly abandoned due to its weak effectiveness. everything else was right - fighting the local hoes. but no one remembers such a really criminal operation as the beating of former tsarist officers in the "Vesna" case in the early 30s. the death of Triandafilov, the execution of Svechin (happened later, but the Tukhachevites hounded him regularly) and other officers. and the motive for the beating was very simple - "so that they would not be betrayed in a future war."

[Zynaps]

dear don-and-so on. in the Russian Army and in the Red Army of the 20s there was no mustard weapon at all - read at least some literature on the state of military chemistry at that time. for artillery, there were only a couple of types of gas grenades filled with phosgene (ineffective in open spaces asphyxiating gas with low damaging properties) and chloropicrin with analogues (tear and irritating organs of vision and respiratory tract police gases). any serviceman who served in the Soviet Army at least a couple of times during the service experienced the effects of chloropicrin in a special tent during chemical protection classes and checking a personal gas mask. stronger OM of general toxic and boiling effects (mustard gas and lewisite) appeared in the Red Army much later - in the 30s, when the domestic chemical industry was created.

as for the poisoned villages, it is not a good idea to talk nonsense, if not in the subject. shelling grenades with chloropicrin were exposed to the islands in the swamp, where bandits and deserters were hiding. excellent studies of the Antonov rebellion almost three five years ago are posted on the website of the Tambov University. search and read - you will be pleasantly upset - everything there was much worse and nastier on the part of the "rebellious peasants", the backbone of which were robbers and deserters. On the part of the authorities, it was a normal police operation for the mass liquidation of the then tsapoks, of which there were countless numbers during the Civil War, and the immature and inexperienced local organs of the Cheka could not stop the formation of gadyushniki.

what was not mentioned in the article at all, and what actually should have brought Tukhachevsky to criminal responsibility is for beating the officers of the Red Army in the "Vesna" case. but it is about this case that the experts, who draw their knowledge from various idiotic sources, are silent, like fish on ice. before judging the Tukhachevsky case (by the way, it is still classified as classified), it is better to turn not to cinematic and literary experts, but to read at least a couple of books by the historian A.V. Shubin, who just worked with documents on the marshal case and is stronger others in the subject.

[Alex]

Quote: Zynaps

excellent studies of the Antonov rebellion almost three five years ago were posted on the website of the Tambov University.

No offense. In research (modern, of course) Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, Ternopil and others. Universities, you will not find a single document about the number of people killed by the OUN; about the number of traitors who served in "Galicia"; about the murder of Yaroslav Galan; about the number of young girls-teachers killed ... The list goes on, but you will not find ANYTHING like it there. And not because it was not - because it is NOT FAVORABLE to disclose. Whether the notorious local patriotism is to blame, or simply unwillingness to talk about some facts - I can not judge. Just referring ONLY to data obtained from a SINGLE LOCAL source is not entirely scientific and professional. Otherwise, you can slide down to the position of a flock of waders, each of which is trying to show its swamp more attractive than the neighboring one. Or even reach the level of "who are you, what are you telling me."
Once again - no offense.

[Karlsonn]

Quote: donchepano

Yes, the "genius" commander.
So "talented" that even words cannot be found right away.

It is not known under what conditions the prisoners were held in the fortress of Ingolstadt, but they were sometimes allowed to go out into the city as a walk.

prisoners of the Russian officers were paid a small monetary allowance and yes, they were allowed to enter the city, they gave the Russian officer the word that they would not make shoots, for Tukhachevsky the honor of the officer was obviously not worth much.

Tukhachevsky initiated the recording of former tsarist officers in the Red Army

Rave! Lenin and Trotsky advanced this question, Tukhachevsky stupidly added to this topic.

Having won many exemplary victories from a military point of view, he became famous for his ability to clearly set army work. However, the largest battle of his life in Warsaw, Mikhail Tukhachevsky lost in all respects.

What are victories? In what battles?
Yeah, commanding an attack on Warsaw from Minsk did not work out well.

However, his calculations contained fabulous figures, for example, on the possibility of producing one hundred thousand tanks a year in the USSR. Stalin pointed out to the marshal the delirious nature of this venture, calling it "red militarism." Also, from the general’s other mistakes, emphasis should be placed on the development of recoilless artillery to the detriment of further study of the rifled receiver, the abolition of the production of a successful 37-mm anti-tank gun, and the refusal to introduce mortars. Large funds were spent by the marshal on the study of unpromising weapons.

Without going into details, one hundred thousand MS-1 is enchanting!

But Tukhachevsky personally participated in the maneuvers of the army and navy, analyzed their results and developed measures to improve command and control. Seeing in tanks the main force of future wars, he studied the forced deployment of mechanized units, created the theory of deep combat and continuous operations in one direction.

Brad!
... Soviet military theorists (S. N. Ammosov, V. K. Triandafillov, K. B. Kalinovsky and others) developed the basics of the combat use of armored forces, which envisaged the massive use of tanks in the most important directions. In the mid 1930s this is reflected in the theory of deep operation and deep battle. In accordance with the concept of "deep offensive operation" adopted in the Red Army, the role of the shock force was assigned to mechanized corps ...

Tukhachevsky’s daughter later told how she, a youngster, was brought to her father and wanted to rape. From other sources, the naked marshal was tied to a pole, and an iron tube with rats was put on the genitals .... There is no documentary evidence of the episodes described.

there is no evidence, but the sources are how it is possible ?

Also, Stalin did not spare almost any of Tukhachevsky’s relatives, wanting to destroy almost his entire family. Brothers, sisters, last wife, daughters, husbands and wives of brothers and sisters went into exile or were shot. Mother, Mavra Petrovna, died in exile, not learning about the terrible fate of most of her children and grandchildren. All the property of the late Marshal, up to personal correspondence and photographs, were confiscated and destroyed.

And it was necessary to send to the sanatorium and issue coupons for enhanced meals?

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Karlsonn

And it was necessary to send to the sanatorium and issue coupons for enhanced meals?

Judging by the cries of liberals, yes And the fact that many promising weapons were pushed aside for the sake of crazy ideas is in their opinion a creative search for the state

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Ruslan67

And the fact that many promising weapons were pushed aside for the sake of crazy ideas is in their opinion a creative search at the expense of the state

one hundred thousand tanks a year? MS-1? Do you want me to be a justified economist, what would this lead to in 1941?

Once again, the Civil War does not end so easily, the Civil War ends only with the total destruction of all enemies and those who have "adhered" - both tukhach and only this way - it does not happen otherwise.

[Tsoi is alive]

Karlsonn,
So, I went to the bath (sorry for the intimate details), but it seems to me that he didn’t want to say what you thought!

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Choi is alive

So, I went to the bath (sorry for the intimate details)

for God's sake.

Quote: Choi is alive

but it seems to me that he didn’t want to say what you thought!

lost in guesses what exactly was meant .

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Karlsonn

Quote: Choi is alive
So, I went to the bath (sorry for the intimate details)


for God's sake.

So, yeshkin cat, you do not let me get there.

All persuaded, take a laptop in the bath.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Karlsonn

one hundred thousand tanks a year? MS-1?

So I’m talking about the same thing. And the fact that he was shot as a spy. Well, they couldn’t finally write in the verdict that the legendary Marshal is a clinical idiot

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Ruslan67

Well, they could not in the end write in the verdict that the legendary Marshal is a clinical idiot

he was not only an idiot, he was an enemy.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Karlsonn

he was not only an idiot, he was an enemy.

As the story of the enemy shows, it’s not so scary. But a large dose of idiocy is fatal.

[Volkh]

He was an enemy of Nazi Germany, and your beloved Stalin very well fed the Wehrmacht with timber meat in the summer of the 41st.

[Yoshkin Kot]

n-dya, another representative of the alternative universe, judging by the nickname of non-idiots

[Volkh]

What did I say to the alternative? And why so much attention to nickname? And why should I judge a person by name? An ordinary Russian name, everything is better than Greek or Roman.

[Larus]

Names and facts?

[Yoshkin Kot]

as well as almost all "red" heroes of the Civil! Rni were really enemies of the Fatherland!

[Volkh]

Names, facts.

[Volkh]

Quote: Karlsonn

he was not only an idiot, he was an enemy.

you are just an idiot.

[Volkh]

Clinical idiots are those who do not know anything and write as if they know.

[Larus]

How are you now expressing themselves harshly ....

[vitya29111973]

they were all like that, I think without a loss, and Budyonny and Voroshilov had to be sent for him.

[Kaa]

Quote: Karlsonn

Quote: Ruslan67
And the fact that many promising weapons were pushed aside for the sake of crazy ideas is in their opinion a creative search at the expense of the state
one hundred thousand tanks a year? MS-1

"It is a huge tragedy for any country if it wages a war not with the weapons that it accumulated before the war. This means that enormous human labor and efforts were wasted, which means that hundreds of thousands, millions of people were killed in battles due to imperfections of weapons.
The Germans practically started and ended the war with the weapons and equipment that they developed during the period when Tukhachevsky ordered the Soviet designers what to design, and the Soviet factories what and how much to produce for the Red Army.
The German main medium tank T-IV, comparable to our T-34 and having fought the entire war, was ordered by the designers in 1935. Fighter "Messerschmitt 109", in the opinion of some - the best aircraft of the war, was started by design and testing in 1934. The Junkers-87 dive bomber in 1935, the Junkers-88 bomber in 1936, and the Heinkel-111 in 1935. Even the Focke-Wulf-190 fighter - and that one in 1938. That is, by the beginning of the war, the Germans had in armament worked out and mastered, not inferior to anything, samples of military equipment, which was so perfect that it did not become obsolete until the very end. Suffice it to say that Syria used German T-IV tanks even in the 1967 Six-Day War.
But from the weapons and equipment that the "outstanding military professional" Marshal Tukhachevsky ordered for the Red Army, by the end of 1941 practically nothing was produced - neither light tanks of the BT series, nor medium T-28, nor heavy T-35, nor fighters I-16 and I-153, neither heavy bombers TB-3, flying at the speed of a motorcycle, nor "high-speed" SB bombers. According to the well-known remark of the designer of artillery guns Grabin, if Tukhachevsky had remained a little longer at the post of deputy people's commissar, then the Red Army would not have had artillery either.
That is our equipment and weapons that made the war (T-34 and KV tanks, Il-2 attack aircraft, Pe-2 bomber, Yak, MiG, LaGG fighters, anti-aircraft guns, mortars, Katyushas and much more), were ordered without Tukhachevsky. http://www.sovnarkom.ru/BOOKS/MUHIN/VOINA_2/muhin2_02.htm

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Kaa

Kaa

That's what I'm talking about! if he hadn’t been spanked, he would have directed and ordered us the horseradish militarist

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Ruslan67

That's what I'm talking about! if he hadn’t been spanked, he would have directed and ordered us the horseradish militarist

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Kaa

But from the weapons and equipment that the "outstanding military professional" Marshal Tukhachevsky ordered for the Red Army, by the end of 1941 practically nothing was produced - neither light tanks of the BT series, nor medium T-28, nor heavy T-35, nor fighters I-16 and I-153, neither heavy bombers TB-3, flying at the speed of a motorcycle, nor "high-speed" SB bombers. According to the well-known remark of the designer of artillery guns Grabin, if Tukhachevsky had remained a little longer at the post of deputy people's commissar, then the Red Army would not have had artillery either.
Our equipment and weapons that made the war (T-34 and KV tanks, Il-2 attack aircraft, Pe-2 bomber, Yak, MiG, LaGG fighters, anti-aircraft guns, mortars, Katyushas and much more) were ordered without Tukhachevsky.

what am I talking about here.

[Volkh]

Quote: Kaa

Our equipment and weapons that made the war (T-34 and KV tanks, Il-2 attack aircraft, Pe-2 bomber, Yak, MiG, LaGG fighters, anti-aircraft guns, mortars, Katyushas and much more) were ordered without Tukhachevsky. http://www.sovnarkom.ru/BOOKS/MUHIN/VOINA_2/muhin2_02.htm

whistle, in KB requests for development at Tukhachevsky were sent.

[Volkh]

Quote: Karlsonn

one hundred thousand tanks a year? MS-1?

do you know what was meant by these 100000000 tanks per year? How do you graduate specialist answer you are familiar with the military-industrial complex of the USSR 25h 30s?
Tukhachevsky did not offer to issue such a quantity. It was not this. This is a lie.

[Alex]

for Tukhachevsky, the honor of the officer was obviously not worth much.

Looks like it wasn't worth anything at all. Judging by his behavior after the arrest, when, on the second day after the arrest, he began to "hand over" his friends (the innocent victims, as they say now. But whoever signed invitations to them in the Lubyanka cellars, for some reason, is silent).

Tukhachevsky stupidly clung to this topic.

Or he successfully clambered. But what, the thing is familiar: know, sign orders and shoot threats.

one hundred thousand MS-1 is enchanting!

And how it sounds from the rostrum!

Brad!
... Soviet military theorists (S. N. Ammosov, V. K. Triandafillov, K. B. Kalinovsky and others) developed the basics of the combat use of armored forces, which envisaged the massive use of tanks in the most important directions. In the middle of the 1930's. this is reflected in the theory of deep operation and deep battle.

Well, this has been attributed to Tukhachevsky since the time of Khrushchev.

there is no evidence, but the sources are how it is possible

Yes, they do not have such miracles

[Volkh]

First, understand the essence of the issue and then write your miserable comments. Http: //wiki.istmat.info/Myth: Tukhachevsky_travel_ peasants_gases
I am ashamed of people like you.

[Mikhado]

A typical adventurer. Even if you do not believe in the conspiracy - if this "genius" had survived to the beginning of the war, we would have been beaten AT ALL. Actually, from the moment of his removal convulsively until the 41st year and sorted out the consequences of his leadership.

[datur]

MikhadoNOT SO EVERYTHING SIMPLY WITH HIS LEGACY !!! Germans at least used the ideas of Tukhachevsky !! and they did not let them down! OTHER BUSINESS - with us !!! so he thought of ideas for a war in the WEST !!!!!!

[Zynaps]

But is it possible to sound thesis at least a couple - three of the ideas of Tukhachevsky, which the Germans used? so to speak, uncomplicated interest for.

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Zynaps

But is it possible to sound thesis at least a couple - three of the ideas of Tukhachevsky, which the Germans used? so to speak, uncomplicated interest for.

I, too, would not mind learning about these "brilliant ideas", purely out of entomological curiosity.

[Volkh]

http://www.tukhachevsky.ru/books/articles/ читайте и анализируйте.

[Felix200970]

Quote: Zynaps

But is it possible to sound thesis at least a couple - three of the ideas of Tukhachevsky, which the Germans used? so to speak, uncomplicated interest for.

I voiced: "... decavilka sremennye hostilities ..." Do not ask for translation into normal Russian. I still can't understand. But something in this is from the underground military or surrealism, again, military

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Felix200970

I voiced: "... decavilka sremennye fighting ..."

I took the trouble to read the "brilliant" graphomaniac opuses of this "strategist" - since then I have been keenly interested in who else has read these books.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Karlsonn

since then I have been keenly interested in who else read these books.

I tried differently. The most successful attempt was when the family left for the cottage: I drank a glass of vodka and for the book, many things became clear right away

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Ruslan67

drank a glass of vodka and a book

Well, you’re not even on the site Lie. cheat, and then a glass of vodka and immediately a book.
Decide, a glass of vodka and immediately into the sauna with a woman, I believe in it!

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Choi is alive

Well, at least you do not lie on the site. cheat

Responsible for every word In general, I like to experiment. And the sauna, etc., just broke off. I had to drink in a company with a brilliant strategist.

[Kaa]

Quote: Ruslan67

drank a glass of vodka and a book

"It is necessary to increase the voltage ... Dangerous? I will not hide it"
But only the brand should be in the subject. Recommend Вfrom Оon Дturnaround Кommunist АNdropova - modestly, but effectively ...

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Kaa

modest but effective.

To such a speech even dear Leonid Ilyich can be heard as a concert on request

[Alex]

Quote: Ruslan67 (3)

To such a speech even dear Leonid Ilyich can be heard as a concert on request

Yes, basically they listened

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Ruslan67

I tried differently. The most successful attempt was when the family left for the cottage: drank a glass of vodka and a book

To me, as a "red", the very idea that the Red commanders inherited the royal mansions, like in Mikhalkov's film, causes heartburn.

[Ruslan67]

Well, the question is debatable - if they honestly serve the country, then they should not live in the barn

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Ruslan67

Well, the question is debatable - if they honestly serve the country, then they should not live in the barn

what was the revolution made for? to occupy the mansions of the royal generals?

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Karlsonn

to occupy the mansions of the royal generals?

I’m saying a moot point, but my opinion is too modest ascetics are more dangerous than those who enter general’s mansions Because fanatics

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Karlsonn

like in the movie Mikhalkov - causes heartburn.

Well Mikha'lkovu believe not respect yourself!

Quote: Ruslan67

Well, the question is debatable - if they honestly serve the country, then they should not live in the barn

Why do you think I live in governor’s mansions if I put him in prison?
Good to believe in fairy tales, yo-MY!

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Choi is alive

Why do you think I live in governor’s mansions if I put him in prison?

Maybe he just put it in the wrong place?

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Ruslan67

Maybe I just put it in the wrong place

Yeah, and who will let him plant.
sitting in the country (in the sense of the house), breeding rabbits, rabbit breeder Yeshkin cat!

[Karlsonn]

I see no reason for sarcasm ...

[Volkh]

I read, but you somehow read poorly.

[Larus]

HERE Volkhov read and stands behind the genius of this figure

[anatoliy73]

Well, if to be absolutely accurate - I was also interested - for shawls! Found the same - "dekavil" is a narrow-gauge railway - laid in the front line and, together with rockets, served for maneuvering troops, reserves and supplies

[Volkh]

Read less cutter and fly.

[Volkh]

http://www.tukhachevsky.ru/books/articles/ читайте сами, разжёвывать вам никто не обязан.

[avt]

__________ In the end, having received five military orders, Mikhail was taken prisoner ._______ FIVE ORDERS in a month at the front ????? Well, maybe the next story about Lieutenant Rzhevsky will be? And maybe, all the same, historians "singers will bother to study the awarding system in the tsarist army? I am not a great specialist, but I know, for example, that even when Stanislav is received, an extraordinary rank is automatically assigned. That is, a warrant officer becomes a second lieutenant. Who was our hero captured? And why about such a miracle of the hero NONE of his biographers has presented to this day ANY newspaper article of that time? After all, the lists of the awardees have always been published openly, as well as the description of the deeds performed by the awardees. And here there are FIVE ORDERS practically in a row!

[donchepano]

Quote: avt

Who was our hero captured?

Already MARSHAL))) They have it fast .. At the fifth column

[Gamdlislyam]

Quote: avt

And here are FIVE ORDERS almost in a row!

Dear colleague avt, in the Russian Empire there was a report card of seniority for orders. According to the status, a person with awards could be awarded only with a higher order in the line of seniority. But this person has never been awarded with lower orders.

[Smirnov Vadim]

The author did not correctly put it, the sentence was not built correctly, you clung. MINUS YOU FAT!

"for the displayed heroism five times was presented for awarding orders of various degrees (5 orders for six months)"

[Avenger711]

There is not a month, longer. There are indeed award sheets.

[avt]

Quote: Gamdlislyam

Russian Empire there was a report card of seniority for orders. According to the status, a person with awards could be awarded only with a higher order in the line of seniority. But this person has never been awarded with lower orders.

Exactly . And the orders themselves were still distinguished by swords and a bow, but they were also in arms.

Quote: Avenger711

There is not a month, longer. There are indeed award sheets.

Well, educate. Where, when, for what and by whom they signed, what date, month and year. And why is this glorious period of the hero of the article not consecrated in such detail by his contemporaries or later biographers? Just don’t about Stalin, that he stole all the awards from the archives and libraries, and newspapers with glorious deeds, and lit a pipe on the shore in a cigarette-roll. Yes, for such feats, marked with FIVE orders in such a short period, songs and epics would have been composed about him even before 1917, and legends circulated afterwards. Yes, and how, with such an "iconostasis", did he become a captive as a warrant officer? However, he heard a lost Polish company, successfully started by Kamenev, a former tsarist officer {not to be confused with a Bolshevik from the Council of People's Commissars}, and the execution. doesn't count. No, it's too thin for Bonaparte, that's why I ended up like that. A talented, by no means stupid adventurer like Berezovsky.

[Volkh]

read http://www.tukhachevsky.ru/books/biography/pervaya_mirovaya_voyna/prikazy_o_nagr
azhdenii.html

[Pushkar]

The article says - for six months.

[Volkh]

here they are http://www.tukhachevsky.ru/books/biography/pervaya_mirovaya_voyna/prikazy_o_nagr
azhdenii.html

[Kaa]

Quote: avt

FIVE ORDERS for a month at the front

Surrealism liberoid sense. I am tormented by vague doubts about the fifth escape of Tukhachevsky, sooooooooo fast he went along the route Switzerland - France - Scandinavia - Russia and .... fell into the favorites of L.D. Trotsky ...
Omitting his disastrous campaign "Give Warsaw, Give Berlin" - failures happen for everyone, omitting his enthusiasm for using OV, taking hostages and organizing concentration camps near Tambov (Didn't it go from there - "Tambov wolf for you tovarisch"?), Let me dwell on 1937 - and there was a conspiracy!
“There was a version that there was no“ Tukhachevsky conspiracy. ”It was just that Stalin, suffering from paranoid suspicion, fell for a fake that was planted by the German special services through the President of Czechoslovakia Benes. not fiction.
“Nobody has ever seen the so-called Benes folder,” said Alexander Kolpakidi, historian of the special services. - And she did not appear at the trial. This version first appeared in the memoirs of the head of military intelligence of the Third Reich Walter Schellenberg. But there is no reason to believe him. Firstly, this gentleman loved rallies, and secondly, he had to show the world the success of German intelligence. Meanwhile, until June 22, 1941 - the date of the German attack on the Soviet Union - Walter Schellenberg did not work in intelligence at all about the Benes folder, even if it existed, he could not know. The plot was probably formed in 1932. At first, he was motley and his key figures were the head of the NKVD Genrikh Yagoda, 1st secretary of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee Avel Enukidze and politician Nikolai Bukharin. At the investigation, Tukhachevsky admits that he was involved in the plot by Yenukidze. In 1930, Tukhachevsky submitted a note to the country's leadership on the rearmament of the Red Army. Stalin spoke unflattering about her. And Tukhachevsky was mortally offended. And soon at all-Union events, he met with Yenukidze. The All-Russian Central Executive Committee Secretary sympathized with the commander, they discussed the political situation and agreed that Stalin was leading the country to disaster. Yenukidze invited Tukhachevsky to join the fight against the "Stalinist regime." The officers grouped around Tukhachevsky wanted to establish a military dictatorship in the country, since the army, according to their version, is the elite of society. According to one scenario, there was a plan of defeat in the upcoming war with Germany. It was supposed to overthrow Stalin and make peace. Probably on the enemy’s terms. According to the second - a coup already in peacetime through the destruction of members of the then Soviet government. Many experts agree that the coup was scheduled for May 1: the parade allowed, without causing suspicion, to send troops to Moscow. On May 1, the authorities took unprecedented security measures in Moscow: all passes to the Kremlin were replaced, snipers on the roof of the GUM, Voroshilov, taking to the rostrum of the Mausoleum, took a revolver. But for some reason Tukhachevsky did not want to return to the original date of the coup. And now - about the third scenario of the coup. Between the highest officers of the USSR and Germany there were close ties since the twenties. The military trained here, the German army was actually revived: the Treaty of Versailles forbade doing this in Germany itself. According to some historians, in the thirties a so-called double conspiracy formed. It was assumed that in the USSR and Germany, Stalin and Hitler would be destroyed almost simultaneously, and a military dictatorship loyal only to each other would be established in both countries. Against such allies, all the armies of the world, taken together ... could not resist .. http://www.kp.ru/daily/26032.3/2948835/.

[Proud.]

It will not be enough. SIX! Six orders. In Bushkov's book "Stalin. The Ice Throne.", Several chapters are devoted to Tukhachevsky, there we are talking about six awards (according to Tukhachevsky). The archives of the Semyonovsky regiment, preserved, speak of two - Anna of the fourth degree and Vladimir of the fourth degree with swords.

[Volkh]

http://www.tukhachevsky.ru/books/biography/pervaya_mirovaya_voyna/prikazy_o_nagr

azhdenii.html
openly and published, only which of you here will read it? It’s easier for you to find fault and not to understand the issue.

[Vladimir73]

read - two orders, not six and not five ....

[Colonel]

So why did Tukhachevsky take the side of the Red power, why did he enter into a deadly game with it?

Roman Gul, in The Red Marshals, answered this question. Mikhail Nikolaevich decided to work as Bonaparte.

[AlexMH]

I remember that Hitler, after the 1944 conspiracy, lamented that Stalin had carried out a purge in his army on time and had no problems with the military leaders, and he, Hitler, on the contrary :) Note that both Tukhachevsky and Blucher (I did not read about Yegorov) were extremely self-confident people , even narcissistic, and selfish, while they did not possess exceptional military talents (in particular, Blucher acted extremely unsuccessfully during the battles on Khasan). It can be said that being brought to the surface by the wave of the Revolution, to some extent by accident, they considered themselves superior to those around them, including the party leadership, which "does not understand anything in military affairs." It was one step from here to the conspiracy. The question of "whether there was a conspiracy" was always considered from the point of view of the existence of a "bloody Stalinist regime", but even if there was no conspiracy, in a situation where the war broke out, a conspiracy could be formed instantly. Apparently Stalin was right in cutting off the head of a potential conspiracy. Another question is that under this case the zealous executors from the authorities were settling scores with other military personnel, and some damage was caused to the army in the middle echelon of command.

[Kaa]

Quote: AlexMH

under this case, zealous executors from the authorities also settled accounts with other military men, and some damage was done to the army at the middle command level.

Well, and now at the service and at work "sit up". But here's the "oil painting"
“In 1937–1939, about 36 people of command and control and political personnel were really dismissed from the Red Army (but not shot or repressed), but not all of them can and should be considered victims of repression. And if we exclude them from the number of those dismissed of such “heroes” (drunkards and thieves), as well as those who died, were dismissed due to illness, etc., the scale of the purge turns out to be much more modest: in 898–1937, 1938 people of command and control and political personnel were arrested (including 9579 people were subsequently reinstated) and 1457 people were dismissed for political reasons (of which 19 people were reinstated in 106–9247) .Total is the total number of command and control and political personnel repressed in 1938–1939 (excluding the Air Force and the Navy) is 1937 arrested (among whom less than 1938% were shot) and 8122 discharged from the army for political reasons and not subsequently reinstated, 40 9859 in total.
Of the total number of dismissed and arrested after filing complaints and appeals in 1939-1940. 12 people were reinstated in their ranks and positions (635 of those dismissed and 11 of those arrested). It seems that in no way can be called the victims of repression 178 people fired for moral corruption, drunkenness, theft. Although this category is undoubtedly the most regrettable for domestic liberals, it cannot be considered victims of repression and those who were dismissed for health reasons, this is a routine procedure for the army.
At the same time, it should be noted that repressions were not always completely unfounded. So, the future Marshal of the Soviet Union K.K.Rokossovsky was convicted under article 58. What are the reasons put forward? As the commander of a cavalry division in Transbaikalia, Rokossovsky neglected warnings of an impending sharp change in weather, raised the division on alert and led him out into the field. Cavalrymen fell under heavy rains, and then hit frosts. Horses did not have insulated sweatshirts and blankets; they were savvy in summer. There were no cloaks and overcoats and personnel. As a result, many horses fell ill and fell or broke their legs on ice. There were cases of a fatal cold among the personnel of the division. The case can, of course, be qualified as criminal negligence, but in 1938 the actions of K.K. Rokossovsky was considered wrecking. Http://blog.kob.spb.su/2011/02/19/844/

[Fox]

minusanul ... the rest of the guys wrote higher. Bigger nonsense than in this article, I have not read it yet ... I wonder if the author's house (by accident) does not have a portrait of a "genius", well, there, a T-shirt, a mug, a flag ...?

[Byordovvv1]

The article is neither yours nor ours.

[Egoza]

Yes, he was a nobleman! Do you understand? A true gentry! Look from this point of view at all his activities. I would not be surprised if someday the facts emerge that he dreamed of a "free and independent Poland" and preferably "from can to can."

[aleshka1987]

I’m wondering if the gentry is circumcised or not ...;)

[Ascetic]

Quote: Egoza

Yes, he was a nobleman! Do you understand? True nobleman! Look from this point of view at all his activities.

This character and others like him saw themselves as "masters of destinies", they destroyed mainly "class alien Russians" - not only officers, but also Cossacks, peasants, workers, scientists, writers, ie. Russian elite in the best sense of the word - making the transition to socialist formation, as they understood itLiberal historians like to speculate that the repression of 1937 was knocked out "The most experienced commanding staff of the Red Army." Meanwhile, preparing for war, Stalin was simply forced to change the "old Leninist guard" that had grasped power and material wealth for personnel from the "Stalinist call" to the 1924 party. And when today Pavel Gusev proudly says from the TV screen that there is no need to rename Volgograd to Stalingrad because Stalin-tyrant repressed his grandfather who was at one time immediately after Furmanov the commissar of the 25th Chapayev division (here I don't know if it's true or not about Pavel Naumovich Gusev-grandfather) for some reason, looking at Gusev and evaluating all his activities for the "good" of the country, you begin to think for some reason, but Stalin was right in these purges (which did not prevent Gusev's father Nikolai Pavlovich Gusev, as the ChSIR, later to become a military translator and later editor-in-chief of Vneshtorgizdat) Now they shed tears over the "Stalinist purges". Meanwhile, the power of the "internationalist communists"
globalists), who committed the destruction of the Russian elite - and initially who planned the transfer of Russian wealth in a “concession” to foreigners(I already posted a post about predatory concessions here) - really was hit by Stalin.
“Communist International” and, as they would say today, “liberals”, there are two parallel structures working to build a “new world order” - in the interests of a very narrow social group, which today we could call a “global oligarchy”.
Tukhachevsky flesh of flesh is one of such internationalists-Russophobes. Tambov has already been mentioned here. Let us also remember that Tukhachevsky was noted in another dubious case, becoming one of the initiators of the operation "Spring" - a large-scale purge of the Red Army from the czarist training cadres, including the former whites, which took place in 1930-1931. In terms of the number of lost military specialists with higher education, "Vesna" caused more damage to the army than the "Great Terror" of 1937-1938, whose great popularity was due to the post-Stalinist political processes: to rehabilitate the former tsarist officers as loudly and openly as the repressed commanders of the Red Army, the Soviet government was inconvenient.

[evgen762]

And to a batch that one of the signatures of the sn shooting Tukhachevsky was the signature of Blucher

[cumastra1]

The purges of the 30s-38s are just kindergarten games compared to what happened in the Civil War. Bloody massacre is not known for what. as a result, cannibals came to replace the monarchy.

[Kaa]

Quote: Egoza

Yes, he was a nobleman! Do you understand? True nobleman!

My your ne do not understand!
"It’s possible that the Tukhachevskys simply attributed to themselves foreign origin, in which they were by no means original. When, in 1686, along with Tolstoy and Tukhachevsky, 540 more service (non-princely) clans submitted genealogical paintings, only 35 of them recognized themselves to be originally Russian. The rest, as the ancestors, indicated eminent foreigners from Prussia and Poland, Lithuania and Hungary, England and Sweden, France and Serbia, the Golden Horde and "Turkey", "from the mountains of Cherkasy" and the Persian kingdom. According to family tradition, the legendary founder of the Tukhachevsky clan Count Indris was of Hungarian origin. But where did his descendants get the surname Tukhachevsky from? After all, it is really rare and all its carriers ultimately belong to the same genus. I note right away that something Hungarian can be heard in it if desired. At least by analogy with the Hungarian city of Mojac; True, its name is actually Turkic, from the Polovtsy who visited the territory of Hungary (you can recall the Bosnian Bihac - the legacy of the Ottoman Empire). So Indris or his descendants could become related with the Lithuanian Tatars (and, possibly, already in Russia - with immigrants from the Golden Horde) or with the descendants of the Khazars Karaites, who constituted the guard of the Lithuanian princes. Most likely, the surname of the Tukhachevskys comes from the Turkic word "tukhachi", meaning "standard-bearer, messenger or messenger." http://www.gramotey.com/?open_file=1269034675

[Egoza]

Quote: Kaa

My your ne do not understand!

Dear Kaa! I meant "state of mind". Likewise, people who are not of Russian nationality can be "Russian in spirit." And vice versa. And here is clearly a complex of the very "arrogant gentry" who shouted "Not permissible!" and "democratically" overthrew the kings, while considering that all the rest were "cattle"

[Serg_Y]

(+) Thank you very much for the article, I was always interested in this ambiguous personality of the ambiguous era. As one of the brightest supporters of the rapid world revolution, he ended as the fastest world revolution.

[washi]

Trotskyist, Bonapartist, etc. Please read the acts of verification of troops during his lifetime. Yes, and a year later.

[cumastra1]

Hired killer, revenge-seeker, fetishist, sadist, terrorist, and just ana ** st

[Captain45]

Quote: cumastra1

Hired killer, revenge-seeker, fetishist, sadist, terrorist, and just ana ** st

Yes, just a Satanist, a permanent revolutionary-DEGENERATE, according to G. Klimov

[anchonsha]

The terrible thing is that we often go to extremes, there is no middle ground. Tukhachevsky was executed as an enemy and Trotskyist, then rehabilitated and made an ideal military leader. This article seems to be an analysis of his life and his actions. An ordinary person with some twists and turns. If he were at the head of Russia, we would have to be even worse than Stalin benefited us.

[aleshka1987]

So just the Trotskyists rehabilitated him after the revenge

[Ascetic]

Quote: aleshka1987

So just the Trotskyists rehabilitated him after the revenge

Future historians will surely study, among the paradoxes of our time, how one of the main organizers of mass repressions turned, in the eyes of many, into a man who condemned and stopped such repressions!

“Ukraine monthly sends 17-18 thousand repressed, and Moscow claims no more than 2-3 thousand. I ask you to take urgent measures. "

(quoted from: Yu.V. Emelyanov. Khrushchev. M.: Veche, 2005. Book 1. P.142), - N.S. telegraphed. Khrushchev Stalin in 1938, when he was the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine (b). To which the "bloody totalitarian dictator" replied to his excessively zealous subordinate: "Get down, d ... k"

Illegally sending records of his memoirs to the United States for publication, Khrushchev did what he himself, in power, would not have subjected anyone to severe repression without hesitation. Being deprived of power, he could become a "dissident" not only out of necessity. He could well have foreseen that in the near future such behavior would bring political dividends.
If he had lived as long as Kaganovich or Molotov had overthrown, he would have managed to reap laurels "Fighter against totalitarianism" while still alive. He could consciously create such a legend about himself, ensuring his political immortality in certain circles. One cannot but admit that he completely succeeded.

[Volkh]

Quote: aleshka1987

So just the Trotskyists rehabilitated him after the revenge

you fools are all here and it’s sad to see it.
Was Simonov Konstantin also a liberal and a Trotskyist?

[ruton]

In my opinion, he simply got what he deserved for the suppression of peasant rebellions and the civil war .. It is interesting that those who made the revolution and then fought for it in the civil war. they didn’t finish very well .. with the exception of a small number of people who were able to stay in power.

[cumastra1]

this suggests an analogy with the great French Revolution, which ate its children and parents too. And the crooks stayed in power, they used the country as their piggy bank, and the people for them were units - ordered - were born, ordered - died. So "pay honestly, and forever remember the social revolution"

[s1н7т]

Quote: ruton

In my opinion, he simply got what he deserved for the suppression of peasant rebellions and the civil war ..

Well, yes, like Ulman for Chechnya. The military MUST obey orders - this is stated in the Oath, if that.

[s1н7т]

Are the civilians minus the chmyr? On the downside to sneeze, but it is alarming - if we discuss orders, will the prosecutor's office defend the Motherland? "The order is being executed without question, exactly and on time."

[Karlsonn]

Quote: c1n7

Passing civilian chmyry? Sneeze for cons, but alarming - if we discuss orders,

I put a minus.
Listen carefully.

[Burbur]

"a talented commander and theorist who developed the foundations of Soviet military affairs."
Fuck. All my life I believed that the foundations were laid by Shaposhnikov in the book "The Brain of the Army" ...
Yes, the author, and what theoretical works on military subjects did the poet write?

[washi]

Not only Shaposhnikov. There was also, mysteriously dead, Triandafillov.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

If "stooltkin" had once declared that a new war would be fought with lightsabers, laser rifles a la Star Wars, who would he be called ?!

[Avenger711]

http://lib.rus.ec/b/93598

Read at a minimum.

[washi]

two words - Polish nobleman.

[s1н7т]

Quote: Vasya

two words - Polish nobleman.

Polish nobles, if they swore allegiance, performed the service no worse than others! And they were Russians. Give examples?

[Karlsonn]

Quote: c1n7

Polish nobles, if they swore allegiance, performed the service no worse than others! And they were Russians.

How many uprisings of the Poles were?

Quote: c1n7

Give examples?

here recently was the 200th anniversary of World War II, should you recall the Polish corps under Borodino?

[galiullinrasim]

minus nothing new

[knn54]

Tukhachevsky didn’t run for the 5th time, but simply didn’t return after being released on prison by the prison administration. It was also proved that his personal adjutant was a defensive agent. As for the experience, what experience could have been with a company commander who was captured The first stage of PMV.
Regarding the liberation of Siberia.
1.P.Schetinkin's partisan army, the anarchists of G.F. Rogov ... created a "green street" for the troops of Tukhachevsky.
2. Practically all operations were developed by "military expert" VA Odelrogge. It was he, and not Tukhachevsky, who was chosen by Frunze, the commander of the Southern Front, as his assistant.
“Our non-stop offensive has been going on for 5 weeks already,” writes
Tukhachevsky. - 5 weeks we sought to find the enemy’s manpower, in order
in order to finally destroy his manpower in a decisive blow ... But we knew one thing, that somewhere we would find his main forces and defeat ... "
The Polish 5th Army "with complete impunity" is pressing the Reds, although
on the flank and in the rear of it are four rifle and two cavalry
Tukhachevsky’s divisions that ... stand without receiving orders, as recognized
Tukhachevsky himself.
As Deputy People's Commissar for Armament, Tukhachevsky made a decision to mass-produce light high-speed tanks to the detriment of the production of heavy ones, slowed down the introduction of machine guns into the armies, supposedly "purely police weapons". In addition:
stava, poor tactical training, poor interaction
between combat arms. The Germans, for example, trained tank crews for six months.
P.S Sitting in dungeons. Did Tukhachevsky remember those people who suffered in the case (operation) "VESNA", which broke out not without his participation?

[washi]

plus for knowing the story.
I will clarify. After his escape, on parole, the Russian officers were no longer believed and the regime was tightened. "Thanks to" his "positive thinking" the USSR entered the war without normal anti-aircraft artillery. Yes, and the organizational problems did not have time to overcome

[anatoliy73]

I fully support - for one experiment with artillery - such as a station wagon, recoilless, etc., he had to be slapped! And on it there are a hundred other "feats"!

[brelok]

In the mid-30s, the Red Army was the best, as many confirm.

[vezunchik]

The usual struggle for power ... And now we are also observing ...

[Snoop]

The author, firstly, is not a theory of deep fighting, but a theory of deep operation.
Secondly, a report about this was provided by the Triadafillov Headquarters of the Red Army in 1931, and therefore he is considered the author of this theory. This can be seen even on Wikipedia.
And here is his monograph - V. K. Triandafillov "The nature of operations of modern armies." 3rd ed. - M.: Gosvoenizdat, 1936.

[Vadim-ragalevich]

The article is frankly weak, at the level of an amateur who has been picking up conflicting information somewhere without bothering to study the issue thoroughly. I advise you to read the book by A. Kolpakidi and E. Prudnikova "Double conspiracy".

[Bogeyman]

Yes, he was a nobleman! Perhaps he was, the devil knows him. Marinesco was also from Romanians, which did not prevent him from sinking enemy ships in the Second World War, Rokossovsky was not a Russian, i.e. from the Soviet, but the Second World War passed from and to. It's simple, at that time he (Comrade Tukhachevsky and others like them) was not convenient for the leadership, like the other so-called. "repressed" commanders.

[major1976]

The article is undoubtedly useful, at least from a cognitive point of view and a statement of the facts of history for those who do not know! The opinions of colleagues in the "shop" are naturally different, so it's good that there is an opportunity to even just express it, the truth is born in a dispute! Now my personal opinion about M.N. Tukhachevsky:
Without a doubt, this person had a military talent (no matter what they say about the Polish company, there were successes and the thought was good), introduced many advanced ideas (although sometimes controversial, for example, Kurchevsky's inventions), the idea of ​​building a great army is positive (he did a lot for this, take at least the BT tank - at that time a good tank, after that the legendary T34 was created on the BT base, the creation of mechanized corps, the development of offensive operations, on foreign territory and with little blood, it's still better than on your own and big blood)! But here's the desire to use the army in their "Bonapartist" goals, there is an unconditional minus (such was the character of a person, for a military man, in my opinion, this is unacceptable), you have to think about your Motherland! I don’t believe in treason in favor of Germany! And referring to unconfirmed data and propaganda, you should not ! In the end, he was punished for ALL his sins against the people for and against whom he fought! In general, my ideal of a military theorist, strategist and tactics is certainly Svechin (not but executed and forgotten at home), Triandafilov and Shaposhnikov!

[Andrew-001]

It was just the ideas of Triandafilov that he appropriated for himself, by virtue of his character hypertrophied them - the fur of the corps of 1500 tanks of different types - this is too much.

And one more nuance - in the photo there are 5 first marshals and only two have badges about graduating from educational institutions - there were no orders with a rhombus in the USSR ?!

[wax]

Triandafilov died in 1931. His 1928 book was published and used in teaching.
I think G.K. Zhukov understood something in military affairs. In his memoirs, he writes, for example:

Mikhail Nikolaevich Tukhachevsky conducted a great deal of organizational, creative and scientific work, and we all felt that he played the main leading role in the People’s Commissariat of Defense. When I met with him, I was captivated by his versatile knowledge of military science.
...
He owns a lot of perspicacious thoughts about the nature of the future war. MN Tukhachevsky deeply developed new theories of theory, tactics, strategy, operational art

[Andrew-001]

Tell me, in 1941 did Zhukov teach the army to fight according to the commandments of Tukhachevsky?
Then it becomes clear why by the winter we were not in Berlin.

[Alex]

Zhukov himself was from the "Tukhachevsky circle", and even a leech can envy his political flexibility of his spine. So his revelations (each time to please the next General Secretary) are not worth much.

[Spartakv]

"A talented, by no means stupid adventurer like Berezovsky"
A perfectly correct comparison, not only of individuals, but also of eras.

[major1976]

We always knew how to hang labels! Remember how Stalin was hung up after the 20th congress! There is still no sense in repeating it, but in 80-90. generally branded as a tyrant on the same level as Hitler! I do not defend Tukhachevsky, he doesn’t need it in my opinion! A historical person, even with a negative trail! Wonderful monarchs in England drowned their people in blood, but the monarchy is still revered more Churchill-Thatcher (although these gentlemen did more for England than any Karl)! But I know one thing, not all archives are still declassified, and not all facts are reflected in them reliably-the paper will tolerate everything, including lies-slander! I’ll say to myself that I don’t even want to blame Tukhachevsky and I don’t advise others! As if in a dozen other years (or maybe more), I didn’t have to change my mind! And then explain to the children and grandchildren why they said one thing and then another! I will take into account the views of colleagues and their cons with respect!

[Alex]

Quote: major1976

And I will take into account the opinions of colleagues and their cons with respect!

Excuse me

I do not defend Tukhachevsky, he, in my opinion, does not need this!

Then what the hell is periodically justified for him? No one is trying to Suvorov and Napoleon, they are arguing languidly about Kutuzov, but Tukhachevsky is just some kind of unrecognized genius. What's the catch?

! Historical figure, even with a negative trail! Over in England, sophisticated monarchs drowned their people in blood

The point is not the amount of blood spilled, but the goals and results of its spill. The kings of England and France built prosperous countries on this cement and that is why they forgive them all. Tukhachevsky was an executioner and a punisher, but he considered the deaths of people only as cement at the base of the monument of his own greatness. Because they try to justify him all the time.

And then explain to the children and grandchildren why they first said one thing and then another!

I have been working at school for 25 years. I won't brag, but for all these years I have enjoyed authority among children. Do you know why? Because, firstly, he never became a "star" of what he himself did not understand and could not explain to others with reason. And secondly, for the fact that he could always honestly and openly admit his mistakes and delusions without excuses like "the time was like that," "everyone thought so then," etc. So, if the archives REALLY find FACTS proving Tukhachevsky's genius (although there is no need to rot them there, because he is now being raised on the shield), I humbly admit my own wrong - tea, the crown will not fall off.

So, no one has been harassing anyone. It's just that nothing else has been noticed by the Red Marshal.

[cumastra1]

I don’t know if Tukhachevsky was bad or good, But he lived like that in Tomsk, chatting about this with one decrepit grandfather. He did not call Tukhachevsky a cannibal except. He says when the news about his untimely death has forgiven in many places button accordions were torn. (or slaughter-I don’t know). True, he did not call the other leaders of the revolution anything but fierce beasts and antichrists. But Tukhachevsky had a special side dish.

[super-vitek]

I read it with pleasure. He is a strange person in my opinion. In my opinion, forgive the slang of "show-off" more than deeds. What could be expected from a man who cheated on his oath once, cheated on his wife, messed up his friends with his wives. Why he shouldn't have changed and the current government! In my opinion, the ending is reasonable.

[Oberon]

1: Tukhachevsky ahead of his time
2: He was not a politician, he was an executor of orders
3: Always worked on the goal that he set
4: I always looked to the future, from there and Katyusha
5: and the fact that women loved him .... Strong was a MAN

and the original ....
After all, he took many from the chopping block !!!
but many did not get it

[washi]

1. What?
2. There are not broken, but sincere confessions that a military coup was being prepared and that Stalin was not much ahead.
3. He had one task - increasing the combat readiness of the Red Army. How he did this is evident from the operation on Lake. Hassan and Khalkyn. Goal. WWII I will not mention, though ..
4. BM installations - 13 merit of Voroshilov. because it was from insisted on the use of non-chemical shells on it. Moreover, Tukhachevsky has nothing to do with the decision on its design and production
5. Prostitution has always been. Also:

[Alex]

Quote: Oberon

After all, he took many from the chopping block !!!

So from his arrest and the testimony after him, the chopping block began to work without lunch and days off. And then he himself died, and pulled others with him. Truly, a "staunch Leninist" of April 1917

[cool.ya-nikola]

Quote: cumastra1

I don’t know if Tukhachevsky was bad or good

“In vain, Mr. Minister, you connect your career and the fate of your country with the fate of such old, exhausted states as Great Britain and France. We must focus on the new Germany. Germany, at least for some time, will own hegemony on the European continent. I'm sure Hitler means salvation for us all... ”- advised Tukhachevsky to the Romanian Foreign Minister N. Titulescu.

The words were spoken right during dinner at the Soviet embassy of Paris, where the Soviet marshal stopped after a trip to London.

Based on this, can we draw some conclusions? ... At least, the talent of the "predictor" is clearly visible!

[washi]

DECREE
Saratov Provincial Council of People's Commissars on the abolition of private ownership of women

Legal marriage, which took place until recently, was undoubtedly the product of social inequality, which should be uprooted in the Soviet Republic. Until now, legal marriages served as a serious weapon in the hands of the bourgeoisie and in the struggle against the proletariat, thanks to them all the best specimens of the fair sex were the property of the bourgeois imperialists and the proper continuation of the human race could not be disrupted by such property. Therefore, the Saratov Provincial Council of People’s Commissars, with the approval of the Executive Committee of the Provincial Council of Workers, Soldiers 'and Peasants' Deputies, decided:

§1. From 1 on January 1918, the right to permanent possession of women who have reached 17 l. Is canceled. and up to 30 l.
Note: The age of women is determined by metric records, passports, and in the absence of these documents by quarterly committees or elders and by appearance and testimonies.

§2. This decree does not apply to married women with five or more children.

§3. For the former owners (husbands) the right is reserved for the extraordinary use of his wife.
Note: In case of opposition of the ex-husband to the implementation of this decree in life, he is deprived of the right granted to him by this article.

§4. All women who fit this decree are withdrawn from private permanent possession and declared the property of the entire working people.

§5. The distribution of the management of alienated women is provided (Sov. Rab. Soldier. And the Cross. Deputies to the Gubernsky, Uyezdny and Selsky by belonging.

§6. Muscovite citizens have the right to use a woman no more than four times a week and no more than 3 hours, subject to the conditions specified below.

§7. Each member of the working people is obliged to pay 2% of their earnings to the fund of the national generation.

§8. Every person who wants to use a copy of the national heritage must present a certificate of belonging to his working class to the workers' committee or trade union.

§9. Muscians who do not belong to the working class acquire the right to use alienated women under the conditions of the monthly contribution indicated in §8 to the fund of 1000 rubles.

§10. All women declared by this decree as a public domain receive a contribution of 280 rubles from the fund for the generation of the people. b month.

§eleven. Women who are pregnant are released from their duties of direct and state duties for 11 months (4 months before and one after childbirth).

§12. After a month, the babies who are born are given up to receive the "Nursery", where they are brought up and receive education until the age of 17 years.

§thirteen. At the birth of twins of the parent, a reward of 13 rubles is given.

§14. Those guilty of the spread of venereal diseases will be held legally liable in a court of revolution.

Archival business N 15554-P in the Oryol FSB
The document is published with the permission of the editors of the human rights newspaper “In the Name of the Law”, Tyumen.

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Vasya

DECREE
Saratov Provincial Council of People's Commissars on the abolition of private ownership of women

all this turbidity has gone since the days of Kolontai’s youth, the theory of a glass of water and all that, like the runs of naked schoolgirls in St. Petersburg and Moscow under the tsar-priest, why put everything in a heap?

[major1976]

Firstly, I do not see anything bad in Tukhachevsky's opinion about "finished states"! Opinion about Germany is also not bad, the Anglo-Saxons would not have pitted the Russians and the Germans against their heads, Russia (USSR) and Germany would have been equal allies, who would have won out of this situation? Well, certainly not England-France! The only negative statement about Hitler about his "salvation for all" - mine camphus has already been written, and everything is laid out there, who, when and how they will destroy! But it seems to me (do not count again as the defender of the marshal) Tukhachevsky did not fully realize (or was mistaken) what a monster is at the helm of Germany, and that he will soon turn from words to deeds! But again, you must indicate the year when the conversation took place, and it is unlikely that the marshal expressed an opinion at the state level that contradicts the party line! the further behavior of England-France and the answer received by the "finished countries" in the form of the USSR-Germany treaty proved that the marshal still understood everything at that time! I hope that I will be understood correctly!

[Karlsonn]

Quote: major1976

would Russia (USSR) and Germany be equal allies, who would benefit from this situation?

Do you know the Ost plan?

[Vladimir73]

Major 1976 right. Work was in progress to create a "buffer" zone between Germany and the USSR. Hitler shouted about his hatred of communism wherever possible, and attempts to create an anti-Hitler coalition were undertaken by Stalin and sabotaged by Britain and France, bound by treaties with Romania, Czechoslovakia, Poland ... To scare a possible alliance with Germany was the main goal (I doubt that Tukhachevsky was that time I would allow myself such speeches on my own behalf without sanction). It was precisely the treaty with Germany that became the fruit of the "uncompliance" of the bourgeois countries.
Everyone understood that a war between Germany and the USSR was inevitable, the question was only in terms.

[воронов]

In what way did Tukhachevsky's "talent" as a military leader actually manifest itself in suppressing the Kronstadt and Tambov uprisings?

[major1976]

We didn’t find that difficult time and didn’t take part in those events! Dozens of years later, everyone can sit in a warm place! But the military has an order and it must be obeyed! This is different from civil philosophers and liberals! History doesn’t always judge correctly about the actions of the people who created it! Why are we sinful? Don’t judge, and you will be convicted! Western tactics of double standards, I’m fed up with it! And in the end Tukhachevsky was judged and executed not for the suppression of the Kronstadt and Tambov rebellions (namely, rebellions, I hope their story don’t you need to repeat? and by the way read Marshal Zhukov — as a squadron commander he took an active part in the suppression of the Tambov rebellion of essays)! Once again, I’ll repeat my colleagues, I don’t defend Tukhachevsky and he doesn’t need anyone’s defense now! I’m just wondering how you can write something that’s not it’s given to you to know! Just because it’s IMPOSSIBLE to find out the truth now! And the author stated these facts without any opinion (good or bad) in the article! The figure of the marshal is ambiguous with obvious talents and positive deeds, there were apparently crimes!

[Karlsonn]

Quote: major1976

The figure of the marshal was ambiguous, along with the unconditional talents and positive actions, there were apparently crimes!

I look point blank and see no talent, why?

[Alex]

Quote: major1976

by the way read Marshal Zhukov-being a squadron commander, he took an active part in the suppression of the Tambov rebellion

So Zhukov in the army was not called a "butcher" otherwise.

I'm just wondering how you can write something that is not given to you to know!

Well, here we are.

Marshal's figure is ambiguous along with unconditional talents

The commander’s talent is determined by victories over the enemy’s WAR, and not by flogging and executing peasants, even rebels.

[Volkh]

read the materials, no one is obliged to train you.

[wax]

Zhukov G.K .:

Remembering in the early days of World War II M.N. Tukhachevsky, we always paid tribute to his mental sagacity and limitations of those who couldn’t see beyond their noses, as a result of which our leadership was not able to create powerful armored forces in a timely manner and created them already during the war .
...
Mikhail Nikolaevich warmly recalled V.I. Lenin, with whom he had occasion to meet and work together many times.
What struck me then was that he said almost nothing about Stalin.
...
On this asset, Mikhail Nikolayevich shared his thoughts set out in a monograph on which he then worked. Its essence was reduced to the study of new problems of war. Then we were less sophisticated in matters of military science and listened to him as enchanted. In M.N. Tukhachevsky one could feel a giant of military thought, a star of the first magnitude in a galaxy of prominent military leaders of the Red Army.
...
Later, speaking in 1936 at the 2nd session of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR, M.N. Tukhachevsky again drew attention to the impending grave danger from fascist Germany. He backed up his vivid, patriotic speech with a serious analysis and figures of the armaments of Germany and its aggressive aspirations.
However, the voice of M. N. Tukhachevsky remained “the voice of one crying in the wilderness,” and he was taken under suspicion by malicious individuals who, slandering Mikhail Nikolayevich, accused him of enemy and Bonapartist intentions, and he died tragically in 1937.

[aleshka1987]

Yeah ... I look at the number of pluses for the article and I feel sad. For a long time we still have to take the shit out of our ears. Here I can imagine how many years will pass and our children will be told about Chubais: “A young reformer, the founder of the economic school of the Russian Federation, a talented manager, not understood by his contemporaries because of the great progressiveness of his ideas. He was illegally condemned by the totalitarian regime in 2015. Such a talented figure and the independent business executive was a thorn in the eye of the near totalitarian leadership of the country "...

[washi]

You know, comrades. I believe Rezun-Suvorov when I read about Zhukov. Because not only this traitor, but also others who have access to the archives, and also individual expressions of veterans with whom I had a chance to talk.
So Vax, I'm sorry, not that source.
A jerboa with a compass had to be shot earlier, but of those who were drowned in Crimea for no reason, would I consider team positions?

[major1976]

And how can one believe a traitor? Even in a small way? My tongue will not turn to call him Suvorov! Rezun he, a scoundrel and
Zhukov’s figure is far from unambiguous and ideal! There were ruthless and murderous orders (for example, the 33rd army and its commander Efremov), there was a philistine passion for personal enrichment, and this person who needed nothing needed a victory marshal (why should such a figure of a woman bling? Diogenes lived in a barrel, Stalin walked in the same greatcoat)! But with Zhukov-taboo, you can’t condemn him (they’ll even bite him on this site) is an indisputable national hero! But Tukhachevsky can be tail and mane! It’s probably easier for us - we spread one of them - we exalt the other!

[aleshka1987]

I, here, liked Rezun's book "Purification". Of course there is a fly in the ointment there - in some places he lies, in others he is silent. But in general, the book is nothing, tells what smelly Augean stables Stalin had to clean.

[Alex]

Quote: major1976

But how can one believe a traitor? Even in small things?

Does the truth depend on who expressed it? Or maybe we are interested in the opinion of a bald man? And then you get it, as in "those years": I myself have not read Pasternak, but I strongly condemn him.

[Cnjkzhjd]

Rezun can easily be replaced by Arsen Martirosyan. He is not a traitor. And he writes more thoroughly and more scientifically. Rubbed with a rezon. About Zhukov, his whole truth is stated.

[Nikskiff]

Everything is as always: he shot the defenseless - he became legendary.

[phantom359]

Nikskiff,
You have no better fighters. Especially now. I will not list the generals, it will take up a lot of space.

[Basilevs]

"... It is not known how the course of the most terrible war in the history of our country would have developed if he had been in the ranks of the Soviet military leaders. However, the Second World War ended up without him ...."
Here I specially once took to read his writings. I was enough to the place where he said that for TWO WEEKS he could not find the evil White Poles in any way, but he would certainly reach them. In two weeks you can walk Poland on foot. And where, by the way, was intelligence ??
So it’s good that World War II ended up without him.

[avt]

Quote: Basilevs

Here I specially once took to read his writings. I was enough to the place where he said that for TWO WEEKS he could not find the evil White Poles in any way, but he would certainly reach them. In two weeks you can walk Poland on foot. And where, by the way, was intelligence ??
So it’s good that World War II ended up without him.

You got excited, not TWO weeks and FIVE !!! Otherwise, everything is correct. And this is not testimony from the case knocked out by Stalin's "utter men", but quite a documentary literature. That is where he would "find the Germans" or would they have him in 1941? After these phrases, I also thought about it.

[phantom359]

Controversial person. Different people speak differently about him. My opinion is that the Marshal fell in love with himself and had too high a self-esteem.

[Serg_Y]

To summarize:
From the point of view of the monarchists, a nobleman who has lost his honor,
from the point of view of the Stalinists - a traitor,
from the point of view of the Trotskyists - a faithful servant,
from the point of view of V.I. Lenin - for the purpose, any means are good.

[bubble82009]

somehow the author is inconsistent. on the one hand, Stalin wanted to withdraw his entire family, and on the other hand, according to his daughter ... how did she stay alive?
but Tukhachevsky himself was not an angel. on the one hand "victim of Stalinism". on the other hand, a participant in the suppression of several riots with the use of toxic substances.

[Vladimir73]

Forgot to mention Operation Spring ....

[s1н7т]

A man of his time. From the Tsarist Junker to the Soviet Marshal - you still need to be able to! Are many of the locals capable?
In my opinion, he is a pure "commander" with a slightly overestimated self-esteem. A commander in the army should be like that - with the ambitions of a marshal, otherwise it sucks. About the conspiracy - I don't know, nothing has been confirmed yet.

[Serg_Y]

(-) For the commander’s mistake, soldiers pay their lives. Do not confuse, the cavalry attack for the infantry is not applicable, in which case do not hit the road.

[admakei]

If you no doubt believe that you will become someone, you will become.

[Moritz]

Meanwhile, there is no evidence of this, except for Hitler's statement in his last interview: "Stalin did a brilliant act by organizing a purge in the Russian army ...".
Hitler made this statement for a completely different reason, he regretted that he had not done the same with the leadership of the Wehrmacht before the war.

[homosum20]

A dream is not a guarantee of its realization. Warsaw, he pros..l mediocre. After a lieutenant, they do not become commanders of armies (real). The usual story of those years.

[Karlsonn]

Quote: homosum20

After a lieutenant, they do not become commanders of armies (real). The usual story of those years.

You are wrong, the usual story for those years was the following:

- warrant officers and lieutenants commanded the fronts and armies, but their chief headquarters were tsarist generals and officers who went over to the side of the Soviet regime, and the bloody gebenya did not eat them alive, but highly valued them.

--- Fedor Fedorovich (2.VIII.1870 - 6.IV.1944) - general.-leith. aviation (1943). Rod in the city of Opatov, Radom province., brother of V.F. Novitsky. He graduated from the Pavlovsk military. school (1889) and the Academy of the General Staff (1895). Member Russian-Japanese. and World War I, the last post - corps commander with the rank of general major. In the Red Army - from March 1, he commanded the Kaluga detachment, from June 1918 - military instructor of the Yaroslavl military. counties. Further activity of F.F. Novitsky was associated with M.V. Frunze, with Dec. 1918 he was the beginning. headquarters, then pom. commander and member PBC 1918th Army and South. East groups front. From Aug 4 14 - at the disposal of M.V. Frunze, since November. 1919 - deputy Commander of the troops of the Turkestan Front, from July 1919 - at the disposal of the Headquarters of the Red Army. From Sep 1920 - beg. Red Air Headquarters fleet since November 1921 - at the teaching work in the Military-Air. Academy named after Zhukovsky, since 1923 - at the disposal of Ch. management of the Red Army. In 1931-1933 - for particularly important assignments at the beginning. Red Army Air Force, then retired. In 38-1943 - teacher of the military department. history of the military. Academy named after Frunze. In the field of military. History was engaged in the study of generals. the activities of M.V. Frunze.
--- The composition of the command of the 8th army: The commander - M.N. Tukhachevsky, the chief of staff - P.A. Men, assistant chief of the operational department of the headquarters of the 8th army - G.S. Gorchakov.
Grigory Sergeevich Gorchakov (surname at birth - Grinzer) (October 29 (November 11), 1886, Yekaterinoslav province, Novomoskovsk - September 1, 1963, Riga) - career officer of the Russian Imperial Army, participant in the First World War, military specialist in the Red Army, prominent army staff civil war worker, participant in World War II, guard lieutenant colonel in the USSR (1944).

Fedor Fedorovich Novitsky

Grigory Sergeevich Gorchakov.

[sdf23wesdgg]

Imagine, it turns out that our authorities have complete information about each of us. And now she has appeared on the Internet http://trunc.it/m8pnt Very surprised and scared,
my correspondence, addresses, phone numbers, even found my nude photo, I can’t even imagine from where. The good news is that the data can be deleted from the site, of course, I used it and I advise everyone not to hesitate

[bistrov.]

Still a very controversial person. Well, I just can't believe in his innocence. And this is still a lost "Polish" campaign. Very suspicious. Again, frivolous behavior with the female sex. No, this is not our man. He was repressed correctly.

[Karlsonn]

Quote: bistrov.

Nevertheless, a very controversial person. Well, I just can’t believe in his innocence

The Civil War raised such dregs from the bottom that the eyebrows stand on end:
- Chapay and his division, being mortally drunk, were carved by the Cossacks, and acquired a heroic image thanks to Furmanov and the cinema;
- Blucher failed the Far Eastern District, with the legend of a broken eye in the palm of his hand;
- and of course Tukhachevsky, "genius" only it is impossible to find a single manifestation of his "genius" neither in the battles that he spent, nor in the books that he wrote --- but this is how he appropriated the glory of others and wrote outright nonsense of this with a shovel do not overthrow.

[Kaa]

Quote: Karlsonn

Blucher failed the Far Eastern District, with the legend of a broken eye in the palm of his hand;

Good evening! Tukhachevsky was dismantled, how can you not say "a couple of gentle" about the "innocently murdered" Blucher? Disorder! "Blucher and his associates did a lot before and during the events on the lake. Hassan, not only in the defense of the Motherland, but for its complete defeat in the Far East. Reports were sent to Moscow about extremely high combat training, and the common practice was the work of soldiers on collective farms or on the construction of facilities, which was strictly forbidden by the command. The material and technical base was completely disorganized. When it was required to go into battle, the soldiers turned out to be untrained, half-barefoot, the artillery had no shells, and the commanders had maps of the combat area. It got to the point that many (as indicated in the documents) Red Army soldiers came to the front not only without ammunition, but also without weapons at all (!), And this despite the fact that huge stocks of uniforms and weapons were concentrated in that area of ​​the Far East. The purges themselves (dismissal from the army) were carried out not by order of Stalin, but in this case by Blucher himself. The same personnel who were arrested and brought before the tribunal were also arrested at the request or with the consent of Blucher himself. As a result, hundreds of posts of commanders and chiefs of units and formations were unfilled, and military units were poorly managed. The head of the Soviet delegation Blucher states that the Soviet side ... she herself is guilty of conflict, because our border guards violated the border by 3 meters. Firstly, it turned out to be untrue. Secondly, Blucher did not have the power to make such statements at all. It was a deafening slap in the face of our country. According to Western newspapers, the USSR was exposed to the whole world "in its most idiotic form." But a much more terrible consequence of this was that the Japanese felt victorious, and the next bloodshed became inevitable. Thousands of our soldiers have paid with their lives for Blucher's 'strange' act. Instead of repelling aggression, Blucher creates 'commissions of inquiry' and completely disorganizes the actions of the troops, his deputy is sent to the front, who is not given any powers at all, and as a result, the troops are left without centralized control! Only after the order of t. Blucher go to the scene of events t. Blucher takes on operational leadership. But with this more than strange leadership, he did not set clear tasks for the troops to destroy the enemy, interferes with the military work of the commanders of Blucher subordinate to him, was completed by giving them ... order of appeal ... 12 ages. This order is t. Blucher provoked the Japanese to declare their mobilization and could drag us into a big war with Japan. 'It should be noted that Blucher is not a' parquet general ', but a well-known red commander of the Civil War, who better than he knows that the assault on fortified positions without means of fire suppression is impossible and leads to terrible losses. This is known, not like lieutenants, even cadets. A military court in Moscow, having examined the case of Marshal Blucher, came to the conclusion that there was a betrayal and sentenced the defendant to be shot. An intensive investigation has revealed a huge number of Japanese agents among the Blucher people. Contrary to popular belief, Stalin did not take any part in his fate and did not exert pressure on the court .. The reports of the Japanese intelligence about more than weak coordination of the Soviet troops were transmitted to the ally of Japan - Germany and played a very important role in deciding on a war against the USSR.

[Karlsonn]

Kaa

Greetings dear. There are many legends about Blucher, but as the Far East, it was the theme of the Far Eastern District and the history of the Far East that always interested me. Blucher killed the Far East before the war, on Hassan, soldiers threw grenades without pulling a check !!! Today's dachas built by soldiers are flowers, compared to what was happening then, the real NKVD troops were then only combat-ready units and everything, after Hassan, the NKVD inspection revealed so many crimes that I had to change the entire leadership. Blucher’s repressions in the Far East were simply monstrous, but of course they were attributed to Stalin personally.
About Japanese espionage, you can write a separate article, I will say only one thing:
- My grandfather, an NKVD officer received several gunshot and knife wounds even before the war, participating in the arrests of Japanese spies - now these are certainly innocent, victims of the Stalin regime.
You can still write a separate article about how the Far East could be cut off from the rest of the country by blowing up several tunnels, which happened thanks to Blucher.
I would especially like to note the legend about how Blucher, kneeling, kept in Stalin’s torturers his broken eye in his palm, saying:
- what kind of people are you?
I'm wondering where it came from? Stalin's executioner gave an interview?

well, in separation --- at a tender age he lived in the city of Khabarovsk, in the "Blucher" house built by soldiers, a monumental domina that stood out even among the houses of the royal buildings - five floors, an elevator, spiral staircases, ceilings like in a museum, and so on.

[Tsoi is alive]

Karlsonn,
Well, you give a pancake.

And my cousin was sitting like an American spy!
But he returned with a medal, to the paradox, and the grandmother (grandmother's cousin) WAITED!

And then I pulled them out of Argun, such a canoe!

[Karlsonn]

Tsoi is alive

Quote: Choi is alive

Well, you give a pancake

Quote: Choi is alive

And my cousin was sitting like an American spy!

and my grandfather and father just watered the bloody gebnya for decades, and they’ve watered it for several decades only because they served the Motherland, in the state security organs and shed blood more than once defending our life, as if you serve in the organs then all your descendants smeared with mud - it personally touches me.

Quote: Choi is alive

But he returned with a medal, to the paradox, and the grandmother (grandmother's cousin) WAITED!

my grandfather, an NKVD officer, took my grandmother, expelled from Ukraine, as his wife, and he was not afraid of Stalin, my great-grandfather was dispossessed, but not shot and not expelled, only because he helped the red partisans from 1917, he was shot by German punishers in the winter of 1942 year, for helping the partisans, his son, my grandfather twice left the encirclement, and the political instructors and the Special Department did not torture him and did not drive him to the penal battalion - The Civil War has no truth, this is a colossal tragedy, I, for example, from the "red" family and all the "whites", as well as the minions of the fascists --- I can't stand the spirit, I perceive the "Day of National Reconciliation" as a personal insult - how to be here?

[Tsoi is alive]

Karlsonn,

Quote: Karlsonn

here's how to be?

But you explain to me what to do if my grandfather (I can give my cousin and full name) was planted, and he was a hunter.
And when the grandfather (wounded animal) ran to the general’s boar under his heart and shot him, he (as the grandfather said) fell a meter away from the general.
Imagine ZK gave a gun, I myself was in the mortality.
And the second grandfather (native) at that moment was cap 1, so now think who their grandson went to?

Here, take it and determine who I am and for whom (I'd love to hear from you), and then I'll tell you whether you guessed it or not!

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Choi is alive

here you explain to me how to be

I will try.

Quote: Choi is alive

And when the grandfather (wounded animal) ran to the general’s boar under his heart and shot him, he (as the grandfather said) fell a meter away from the general.
Imagine ZK gave a gun, I myself was in the mortality.

Probably your grandfather was not a "white" nit, but fell under the flywheel of repression and he himself clearly divided where the right and where the left, which actually determined his action.

Quote: Choi is alive

And the second grandfather (native) at that moment was cap 1, so now think who their grandson went to?

So what? The civil war still passes through our fates with a hot iron; I don’t know how to personally evaluate this.

Quote: Choi is alive

Here, take it and determine who I am and for whom (I'd love to hear from you), and then I'll tell you whether you guessed it or not!

why do I need this ? I am from a "red" family, guessing is not about me.
Again :
- The civil war in Russia is the most monstrous tragedy in the history of mankind, there are no right or wrong, I, like a "red", hate "whites" and this, taking into account that almost 100 years have passed, I admit that "whites" feel the same feelings, but on I don't give a shit about their feelings.

[Tsoi is alive]

Karlsonn,
Thank you for your frankness, but somewhere you and I disagree.
I, too, for my family fall into any tear, in principle, they taught me that way (not in the family, of course).

I’m just a prankster in my life (always with any difficulties) and I’m easy to relate to, and my grandfather (a cousin came with a medal, though the general couldn’t give at first (he just fucked up) imagine a boar is running (but he can’t get into it ( I mean, it gets, but it’s not where it is needed, and the grandfather puts it a meter in front of him), he gave him a lot of money (though his grandfather was cleared while driving home).
But the second grandfather was gouging and I probably into it.
I'll write where and how he worked!

[Karlsonn]

Quote: Choi is alive

Thank you for your frankness, but somewhere you and I disagree.

I think it will not become insurmountable obstacles in our communication.

Quote: Choi is alive

I, too, for my family fall into any tear, in principle, they taught me that way (not in the family, of course).

this is a man’s common position .

Quote: Choi is alive

But the second grandfather was gouging and I probably into it.
I'll write where and how he worked!

I will be glad to get acquainted.

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Karlsonn

this is a man’s common position

I hope this is not a joke?

Quote: Karlsonn

I will be glad to get acquainted.

Briefly set out;
Grandfather was sitting in the trench and the junkers came in, but then he had the urge to smoke, in the interval between their dumping (you know how they bomb in waves), he ran to the neighboring trench, took a cigarette there, and when he jumped back at that moment, the bomb exploded through the sapper blade and entered stomach.

[Tsoi is alive]

I continue.
It was on Polish soil, and there he was assigned to a hospital, there he was lying (a private house in the forest), but then he got better and now the canoe must go to the forest for firewood, and there the forest brothers killed everyone who he goes there, since the horse herself understood where her house was and the truth returned with the dead, BUT WITH WOOD.

[Tsoi is alive]

So, it’s grandfather’s turn, grandfather takes PPSh and a bottle, gets drunk (what else should he do?) By love, if they start to shoot from green stuff, you’ll like to twist, but you’re all there.
In general, I loaded firewood, the horse brought back, and he was alive.
The next step, the horse brings - dead.
Again send grandfather, he goes and again alive.
Well, then the department already took up it, such as pricked brother, how so?
Well, the grandfather spent a week under arrest, but then you need to go for firewood, they again to him ....
In general, the chest opened simply, he slept with the mistress of the house, and she was the sister of a forest brother ... that’s the whole thing ...
And I apparently went into it!

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Choi is alive

And I apparently went into it!

Are you sleeping with your brother’s wife too?

[Tsoi is alive]

[

Quote: Ruslan67

Are you sleeping with your brother’s wife too?

Know Sir, I have just everyone, just in case, suddenly there will be a forest brother's sister there.

But better than me in my opinion Yesenin said ..
Do not grieve, dear, and do not ahay,
Keep life as a horse, for a bridle,
Send everyone and everyone to ***,
So that you are not sent to n *** y!

[Karlsonn]

Briefly summarizing, so much scum was clinging to the revolution that it subsequently had to be torn alive, with meat.
The civil war on the territory of tsarist Russia, from the point of view of historical science, is not a plowed virgin land, not a single nation in the history of mankind has experienced such a terrible tragedy, we are still scooping up the consequences of this disaster.
May God grant us descendants the wisdom and accuracy to deal with all this.
Well, what about Tukhachevsky - it is a pity that he was not banged after the Polish campaign, the ambitious mediocrity rising on the shoulders of the military experts, weakening the country's defenses by projections, into the furnace of his story and the whole conversation.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Karlsonn

into the furnace of his story and the whole conversation.

The dog does not burn! AND some are trying to rank him again

[Tsoi is alive]

Ruslan67,
Karlsonn,
To wet someone again?
You do not understand, then you write "Let's live together", then kill everyone!
So think now?

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Choi is alive

So think now?

A horseradish think-wet And then again red bonapartes will breed like cockroaches in the Baltic then you won’t

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Ruslan67

A horseradish think-wet

Well, after such news, I think not only it is necessary, but also NEEDED ....

Qatar recruits young people to participate in the war in Syria

Yemeni newspaper Al-Jumhur reports that the Reform Party, which represents the Muslim Brotherhood in Yemen, is recruiting young people to participate in hostilities on the side of armed terrorist groups in Syria

[Ruslan67]

It would be easier for everyone to wash off this catarrh to a Saudi mother. The country then forgive God, an oil barrel under the sand and three camels from above, one of them is an emir and stink to the whole world

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Choi is alive

Qatar recruits young people to participate in the war in Syria

Ah, the evil Cathar! He himself thought of this before, or who “advised”? As he said, one wise man today --- behold the root.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Thunderbolt

As said, one wise man today --- see the root.

Is it a camel in the ass or something?

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Ruslan67

Is it a camel in the ass or something?

Well, you have a clue, Yeshkin cat.
I will not upload photos!

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Choi is alive

I will not upload photos!

From the personal archive?

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Ruslan67

From the personal archive?

So pulls on my personal archive?
I'll give it.
I think you will understand ...

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Choi is alive

I think you will understand ...

I’ll understand, we are intelligent bears. But some of the feathered .....

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Ruslan67

I’ll understand, we are intelligent bears. And here are some of the birds ..

Don’t provoke it, Sparrow has nothing to do with it ...

There is another canoe ...

[Ruslan67]

What am I ??? We are peaceful people, but our shovel ... Well, hereinafter

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Ruslan67

What am I?

Why do we constantly scare me?

Here's a shovel AK ...

http://www.webpark.ru/comment/ak-47-iz-lopati

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Choi is alive

Why do we constantly scare me?

I would look and see

Quote: Choi is alive

Here's a shovel AK ...

Circle crazy hands not to communize normal so they’ll also need to submit an article for production

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Thunderbolt

x, evil Katar! He himself thought of this before, or who "advised"? As he said, one wise man today --- behold the root.

This wise man today was me ... I definitely won’t die of modesty ...

It is known that numerous battalions of mercenaries take part in the Syrian war, which are distinguished by special cruelty and bloodthirstiness. Mercenaries of Chechen origin stand out. The leader of the Chechen fighters in Syria is a certain Abu Amr Al-Shishani ("Chechen"), whose speech can be heard at this link. (http://www.hanein.info/vb/showthread.php?t=311785) He speaks broken and twisted Russian, not fully realizing what, in fact, he needs to talk about. The hackneyed phrases about "jihad" and "the sacred duty of Muslims to fight on the blessed Syrian land" leave no reason to doubt the true intentions of this militant. The translator immediately translates his incoherent muttering into Arabic. All this would have remained a pitiful and ridiculous videotape of unkempt and unkempt subjects in masks, if it had not been a terrible reality. According to Arab experts, the Chechens are considered the most bloodthirsty among the mercenaries, since they already have experience in fighting the Russian army. The publication "Arabi-press" reminds that it was Turkey that provided assistance to Chechen fighters during the war against Russia, and now supports them in the Syrian war. Great Britain is also involved in this case. On December 23, a group of Chechen fighters from London's Heathrow airport flew to Istanbul, from there and was transferred to Syria. (http://www.arabi-press.com/?page=article&id=60880) The British newspaper "Guardian" previously wrote about the participation of Chechen militants in the Syrian war. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/23/syria-foreign-fighters-joining-war)


Currently, about 50 Chechen fighters are fighting against the Syrian people. They are located in the northern part of Aleppo - closer to Turkey. By the way, a source close to the Jabhat al-Nusra terrorist group told the Arab media that the group's central command was based not on Syrian, but on Turkish territory, in the city of Jalyabinar. The Turkish authorities have not yet commented on this report.

[Ruslan67]

Quote: Choi is alive

This wise man today was me ... I definitely won’t die of modesty ...

No modesty But from the consequences caused by its excess easily

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Ruslan67

But from the consequences caused by its excess easily

Afraid of wolves - don't go to the forest!

[anatoliy73]

Bravo - totally agree! Marshal "Golubokhrenov" is a great leader! And then he was replaced by the "Stalinist satrap" and the "first-comer" Apanasenko and corrected as damned everything that this slightly drunk genius "naval"! And for one of his actions to develop the road network in the Far East, he was awarded at least an order, and plus in the Second World War, how he acted! After all, by and large, it was not the "Siberian divisions" but the "Far Eastern" divisions, formed by him semi-self-employed - saved Moscow! This is by the way about the "lack of initiative" and "shocked" Stalinist generals 1

[hamster67]

You are right about Chapaev. My great-grandfather was part of a Cossack detachment. And according to him, which the Red Army said to my father were drunk in the insole.

[Larus]

Considering his pride and not accepting a different opinion, his question was resolved in time, it would be better early, maybe he would have better prepared for the war. And the fact that he considered himself the coolest of all, it is not surprising that he was preparing a coup in order to steer the country into the benefit of their ambitions.
As for the repressions in the army, it’s not so simple and deplorable as the liberals are shouting at us. The only pity is that sensible military personnel fell into kneading and denunciations of any scumbag. Well, how did Khrushchev overfulfill our plans at that time? everybody knows that it’s not without reason that he attributed everything to Stalin.

[GEO]

another parhat, who drowned my country in blood, was spanked - and by deed.

[Volkh]

The article is amateurish, the material is not prepared, the author is unsuccessful.

[Vladimir73]

The article is interesting, but touches the list of electronic sources only (possibly for the convenience of readers).

[Volkh]

Moreover, there are false sources that need verification. Plus, the photo "on trial" does not correspond to reality.

[xomaNN]

With many controversial versions of the life and fate of Tukhachevsky, if he were to remain repressed generals resembling him, the start of the 41st war would not be so disastrous.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

he would most likely be even more terrible, especially considering Trotsky’s slogan - to power through defeat in the war, whose admirer was Tukhachevsky