N-20 vs B-21: who wins and for how much?

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N-20 vs B-21: who wins and for how much?

Indeed, the battle between American and Chinese aircraft designers is serious, because everything that has been done recently in the United States in terms of military equipment is all done with an eye on China.

A separate topic is strategic bombers. The countries are in approximately equal positions: the main striking force of the strategic aviation The USA is still the B-52, and in the PLA Air Force this role is played by the N-6, which is essentially a very heavily modernized Soviet Tu-16. In between, the United States has B-1 and B-2, but with both the first and second things are not as smooth as the Americans would like. And speaking recently about B-2s, there are not so many of them (19 left) to have a significant impact on the confrontation between the United States and China.



But there is confrontation. In the USA they talk about this openly and constantly, that all efforts are aimed at ensuring that the American army can resist the Chinese when the time comes. The PRC does not make such statements, but this does not mean that they think differently there.

So, in principle, today the countries are at parity in terms of strategic aviation, that is, the main weapons are outright old, but there is a prospect. The Americans are hard at work on the B-21, the Chinese are working on the H-20. But the Americans are clearly a little ahead, since they are already assembling the first ten aircraft, but it is very difficult to say what the situation is with their neighbors, because in the Middle Kingdom they know how to keep secrets. But it is quite possible that assembly is already underway there; you might not see anything like that from your Chinese comrades.

How much does this bother the gentlemen from overseas? It doesn't seem to be very strong.

A Pentagon intelligence official told Breaking Defense's Michael Murrow that China's H-20 bomber is "not really" a concern for the U.S. military. The words, which echo previous statements made by US defense officials about China's J-20 stealth fighter, come as the new bomber remains under wraps with few concrete details about its appearance or capabilities.

In general, the situation is twofold: either intelligence has found out something about the Chinese planes, which allows the Americans to feel absolutely calm, or, on the contrary, there is a good mine in a bad game.

Here, as a reproach to American intelligence officers, one can reproach the absolutely disastrous work on the Chinese destroyer cruiser Project 055: at one time, the Americans “played, but did not guess” either the displacement, or the power-to-weight ratio, or the ship’s performance. It was, frankly speaking, not very good.

However, the American side’s statements regarding the N-20, made after analyzing the PLA Air Force video filmed in 2021, are more than optimistic. The Americans seriously believe that their developments in the field of stealth LO aircraft are far ahead of similar developments by Chinese engineers. And they are so sure of this that the N-20 is not the object of close attention and at least some concern that you inevitably begin to think that the American intelligence officers missed the mark somewhere.

Of course, in aircraft manufacturing, China does not demonstrate such breakthrough successes as, say, in shipbuilding, but there are no problems with domestically designed and assembled aircraft (unlike India).

American sources say that, according to their data, Chinese engineers have encountered certain engineering problems, the solution of which is delaying the commissioning of the new aircraft.

While these claims are sparse in detail, they do suggest that China may indeed have had some problems developing the H-20's stealth capabilities. Or at least the resulting low-profile qualities won't come close to matching those of the B-21 or even the soon-to-be 2-year-old B-35. Given the head start the United States has in this regard, this shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

On the other hand, the light, of course, did not converge like a wedge on stealth. The question is what is better, stealth or super-maneuverability for a fighter or, speaking of bombers, stealth or speed. It is clear that stealth is the most important thing for a bomber, but the practice of using the Tu-160 suggests that speed is no less important than stealth, since it allows you to quickly reach the launch line and quickly get out of there. But intercepting or catching up with a bomber that can reach speeds of up to 2 km/h may be more difficult than detecting a stealth aircraft. Because although it is small, it is noticeable. But I won’t tell you how, say, on an F/A-200 of any modification that produces a maximum speed of 18 km/h to catch up with the Tu-1. Maximum speed, not maximum speed – but 900 km/h is an abyss.


It is no less difficult to say anything about a Chinese aircraft than about the same B-21, since Chinese secrecy is something masterpiece. And all that can be said about it today is that it is as close in appearance as possible to the B-2/B-21 “flying wing” concept.

However, it was in 2024 that the Chinese military promised to show the aircraft. I think they will show it, because how in the PRC they punish for failing to meet the expectations of the party and people is not worth talking about. That’s why it’s a stuffed animal, a carcass, but they’ll show it.

And this will be a very significant event in the world of aviation, since the N-20 is still the second strategic stealth bomber in the world after the American one, and others, it must be said, are not yet expected. You can confidently put an end to the PAK DA project; it practically does not exist even on paper.

So the Chinese and Americans are the ones who were able to build a strategic strike aircraft created according to the “flying wing” concept. The question is the quality and quantity necessary to solve the tasks set by the General Staffs of both countries, because whatever one may say, a strategic bomber is weapon not defensive at all, but quite the opposite.

American analysts have already given out their calculations: for a full-fledged conflict with the PLA, the US armed forces will need about 250-270 B-21 bombers and up to 60-70 B-52.


Considering that the initial plans for 100 B-21 aircraft are somewhat behind this figure, even the Pentagon’s latest adjustment to the number of Riders to 145 still looks like a half-measure. And it is very strange that in all the calculations B-1 and B-2 are absolutely absent.

In general, while small-scale production is underway with an eye to full-fledged army tests, we can say that the United States will not be able to equip its Air Force with the required number of aircraft to confront China before 10 years. That is, the Chinese still have time.


As for when we'll finally see the H-20, that also remains unclear, although a Chinese military official said last month that it would be unveiled soon, according to a report in state-run newspaper Hong Kong Commercial Daily.

In general, the term “near future” is not very precise. But there have been hints from Beijing in the past that the H-20 may appear sooner rather than later. As early as July 2022, the Global Times (a division of People’s Daily) and the Chinese news The Guancha website (an independent portal with an overtly nationalistic bent) reported that China was preparing to conduct flight tests of a new aircraft, presumably the H-20, in the very near future.

A month later, in August 2022, images emerged showing a wind tunnel test specimen, a model used primarily to test the aerodynamic properties of aircraft structures.


Aviation expert Andreas Rupprecht, who specializes specifically in China, said that the model has at least some relation to official research conducted on the H-20. He also noted that there were likely several different studies that led to the development of the bomber.

By that time, images of the new Chinese bomber appeared on renderings, some of them were official. There is no guarantee that they correspond to the appearance of the actual aircraft, although it is widely believed that they are probably at least loosely accurate.

In January 2021, the first official rendering of the supposed H-20, which appeared in an official recruitment video for the People's Liberation Army Air Force, created a lot of buzz. The photo showed an aircraft hidden by a tarpaulin, behind which, however, the configuration of a “flying wing” could be discerned.

In general, the Chinese have been “training” the world expert community for a long time, either with videos in which there were hints of the N-20, or with computer graphics that depicted something similar to the B-2. There have even been accusations against the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), of which XAC is a subsidiary, that they are passing off Northrop Grumman Superbowl images as their own.

But here the Chinese are just great: for so long they have not “burned” their plane, without giving the slightest opportunity to find out even the slightest details about the configuration of the N-20. In principle, the confirmation of American intelligence is more than enough to draw conclusions that the N-20 is something similar to the B-2.


How effective can all the work of Chinese designers be? Maybe. In China, in addition to low-profile shock drones type GJ-11 Sharp Sword have already created two fighters with a stealth configuration. Yes, these works are smaller in size than a bomber, but nevertheless, much of what was implemented could easily be used in large structures.

Serrated air intakes, anti-radar coatings, fuselage shapes and much more that could be useful in creating a large and stealthy aircraft. Especially an aircraft with a “flying wing” shape.

The main problem of such machines is flight stability caused by the lack of vertical tail. This really greatly reduces visibility, on the other hand, it creates significant problems in control. But a strategic bomber is not a machine characterized by sharp maneuvers and aerobatics. A calm and unhurried flight, launch/reset and the way back, if there is one, to where at that moment - that’s the whole job of a strategic bomber. In terms of the level of active maneuvering, it is practically no different from a UAV, so God himself ordered the use of various developments from past periods for aircraft.

In general, the creation of a “flying wing” by Chinese engineers is a feat of labor. Jumping from the Tu-16, which comes from the 50s of the last century, through designs like the Tu-160 and B-2 directly to the B-21, is very difficult. This is truly in the spirit of shock communist labor. The only question is how effective these efforts will be.

Having suffered through both iterations of the B-1, Lockheed specialists came up with a unique hybrid design, which they implemented during the Advanced Technology Bomber program, as a result of which the B-2 was born.

The Chinese certainly had their eye on everything they could get their hands on and made some advances in the H-20 design, including (possibly) folding vertical tail fins with variable tilt geometry that would overcome some of the problems during low speed flight. , and will also reduce visibility and increase efficiency in cruising mode.

But there is still a long way to go to directly assess the performance characteristics and performance characteristics of aircraft. Today it is more appropriate to talk about how quickly and for how long countries can provide for themselves fleets strategic bombers. And at what price?

We know the figure announced by the Pentagon. 145 units. The cost of one aircraft is 700 million dollars, and another 50 billion was spent on development. In total - 151 billion dollars for all the fun.

It’s difficult to even guess how much the N-20 will cost, but if we take into account the cost of developing and building another “twenty”, that is, the J-20, then we can assume that the Chinese aircraft is unlikely to be much cheaper than its American counterpart. The J-20 somehow managed to beat the F-35 in terms of price, selling for $110 million.

It is logical to assume that a rather large machine weighing 200 tons will have a decent load. From the experts’ conjectures, two figures emerged: between 10 tons of payload for the N-6 and 27 tons for the V-2.

Naturally, the plane will be subsonic. It is clear and understandable that it will carry less than the Tu-160 and not at the same speed. It's all about the main Chinese problem - aircraft engines. If the same WS-20С or promising WS-10 are installed on the N-15, then you shouldn’t expect anything record-breaking. And, in general, China doesn’t have any other engines yet.

From all this, it is not a standard bomber, like the B-2, that is drawn, but a more multifunctional aircraft, like the B-21. Weighing about 200 tons, with a maximum speed of about 1000 km/h, and a flight range of about 8 – 8,5 thousand kilometers. It will be able to lift the specified number of weapons, plus it will have the ability to carry nuclear weapons in the form of both bombs and 6-8 winged missiles.

But in addition to all of the above, the H-20 will also have a reconnaissance function. China has a diverse arsenal of long-range air, land and sea-launched missiles, but lacks the robust intelligence network needed for precise targeting. Today, China is actively expanding its orbital satellite constellation, but it is believed that the stealthy N-20, equipped with the latest AESA radar, will be able to collect information about the enemy and transmit it via a satellite system to consumers located thousands of kilometers from the country’s borders.

If the Chinese can fit such an aircraft into the price range from $300 million (Tu-160M2) to $700 million (B-21), then it will be a very luxurious option. All that remains is to wait for official information that may shed light on the unknown parameters of the N-20.

Even if it turns out that the H-20 lacks overall stealth and other advanced features compared to the B-2 and B-21, the aircraft still represents a huge leap in capability for China. Here we should not forget that the current fleet of long-range bombers of the PLA Air Force consists of the H-6, created on the meringue of the Soviet Tu-16 of the early 1950s.

Clearly, the H-20 will have much greater capabilities as a long-range strategic platform, including as a nuclear deterrent. Or, as an option, a nuclear attack. The coast of the United States is about 10 kilometers from the Chinese, there is no talk of striking the United States, but the American bases in the Pacific Ocean could easily get the worst of it.

Of course, when it comes to weapons, China has already demonstrated some new capabilities, including air-launched ballistic missiles and seemingly tested hypersonic weapons, and quite modern cruise missiles. Armament of these classes may be adopted by the N-20 (except for ballistic missiles, of course), which will ensure an increase in the strike capabilities of the PLA Air Force.

But there is one very big nuance.


In principle, we have already calculated that the American B-21 program will cost $150 billion. That is, the total cost of one aircraft out of 145 planned for order will be about a billion dollars. Already cheaper than B-2. How much cheaper it will be for the Chinese is a question, but here’s the catch: in the United States, the use of long-range/strategic aviation has been on a grand scale since 1943. When China didn’t really have aviation. And the Americans honed their capabilities and tactics in Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya and other places.

Plus, the Americans’ bases on Guam and Pearl Harbor will allow them to use strategic aviation much more effectively, both in terms of refueling (both on the ground and in the air) and possible maintenance. Chinese military bases are located in the Indian Ocean and on the Pacific bridgehead, bombers with a range of 8 km will not be so effective.

The training of the crews also raises certain doubts. There are many examples from stories, when during maneuvers and exercises the armies showed excellent training and preparation, but in the subsequent war it turned out to be a complete nightmare. The same applies to the rather peace-loving PLA: Chinese soldiers do not particularly participate in military conflicts.

But this is really such a nuance, nothing more. The combat training of American bomber pilots is known, although the quality of use is very controversial.

The main question is: will the Americans be able to spend $150 billion wisely and get the 145 aircraft they are looking for? Of course yes. It's just a question of time. Will the B-21 be able to live up to the expectations placed on them? This is a very delicate question, because B-1 and B-2, according to the Americans themselves, turned out to be not very good and now 150 billion are being spent to replace them.
Could a fleet of 145 strategic bombers pose a real threat to China? Yes. Just as hundreds of B-52s once threatened everyone, so the B-21s will do the same. A new round of progress, old yeast.

And the Americans have a head start, since the first B-21s are already being assembled.

China is lagging behind, but there is little point in starting an arms race. The main thing is that Chinese planes will not be able to reach strike lines on American shores. Both due to the fact that the Pacific Ocean has been well developed by the Americans, and due to the clearly insufficient flight range of the N-20.

On the other hand, who has heard at least one statement from the Chinese side that the United States is an enemy and adversary of the PRC? Unlike Washington, Beijing is silent in this regard. But American leaders from time to time allow themselves such statements, moreover, they normally back them up with actions. And plans to build 145 strategic bombers are the best confirmation of this.

In any case, the production process will take more than 10 years in any case. And during the production process it may turn out that the B-21 is a little bit like the F-22. In terms of cost and reliability. Could this happen? In the modern States - easily.

China will drag it out until the last minute, testing everything and bringing it to condition. And then communist construction will begin. Something like it happened with the J-20: in 2017 the aircraft was put into service, and in 2023 the 200th copy was already produced.

Of course, modern strategic bombers are a very important element of the national defense of any country that can afford them. However, the emerging confrontation between the United States and China in this area evokes a completely healthy reaction in terms of understanding the timing: during the time that both countries will create fleets of modern bombers and missile carriers, very, very much can change.

However, is it worth regretting money nowadays?
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  1. -4
    22 May 2024 04: 53
    The cost of one plane is 700 million dollars, and 50 more billions was spent on development. All in all - 151 billion dollars for all the pleasure.
    700 million + 50 billion equals 151 billion?! A new word in mathematics?! It seems that, according to the old rules, this is 50 billion 700 million, no?.. what
    1. -1
      22 May 2024 05: 10
      Indeed, the battle between American and Chinese aircraft designers is serious,
      and ours smoke in the country...? although... with the development of air defense, any glider can be landed, and it doesn't matter how much it costs, a rocket is still much cheaper. and soon satellites will catch up, they will burn paper planes from orbit. everything is changing quickly these days.
      1. -4
        22 May 2024 05: 20
        the rocket is still much cheaper
        The missile also comes with a radar, which costs much more than a glass of sunflower seeds. In addition, the missile is not very good at low-flying targets
        1. -1
          22 May 2024 05: 55
          Quote: Dutchman Michel
          the rocket is still much cheaper
          The missile also comes with a radar, which costs much more than a glass of sunflower seeds. In addition, the missile is not very good at low-flying targets

          Radar is not a consumable. But BUK can do a lot. From 30 meters to...
      2. -3
        22 May 2024 05: 53
        Back in X.. knows what year, ours tried it out and suggested this idea to us. They are still suffering
      3. -2
        22 May 2024 06: 17
        and soon the satellites will catch up, paper airplanes will be burned from orbit. everything is changing quickly these days.

        Exactly, I agree 100%, but I’m afraid what will happen to our planes from the last century???
        p.s. only with us everything is still...
      4. +4
        22 May 2024 09: 07
        You can confidently put an end to the PAK DA project; it practically does not exist even on paper.


        What grounds does the author have to claim that PAK YES does not exist even on paper? In my opinion, this statement is clearly untrue.
        The British government has announced that Russian designers have reached the final stage of creating the fifth-generation PAK-DA strategic bomber, which has received the code working name Product 80.This is what the British politician, Junior Minister for the Armed Forces of Great Britain James Hippie told the Western media: “The Russian Military Space Forces maintain several classes of bombers in constant readiness at various air bases throughout the country. A prototype of a promising long-range aviation complex, design which the BBC USA's B-2 strategic bomber resembles, appears to be close to completion."

        This statement was made a year ago.
        The first flight of the PAK DA is currently expected to take place in 2025.
        1. +2
          22 May 2024 10: 30
          Quote: OrangeBigg
          The first flight of the PAK DA is currently expected to take place in 2025.

          Even so ? If they meet this deadline, it might make sense.
          The intrigue remains with the engines. Initially, the conversation was about 4 PD-14s, which looked the most harmonious, then about two NK-23Ds (with a hot end from the NK-32M and a high bypass ratio), and this has already raised serious questions (the engine is currently undergoing bench tests and it’s too early to talk about an acceptable resource, and the thrust of the NK-23D is less than that of two PD-14s - 23-24 t.p. versus 28 t.p.), and recently there has been news and a report about the launch of production of the modernized version D. -18M to equip the existing An-124 and to launch their (An-124) updated version into production. The traction characteristics of the D-18 are the same as those expected from the NK-23D - 23,5 - 24 t.p. , but this is a proven engine with an acceptable service life for a military and transport aircraft. The trouble is that the NK-23D and D-18M, which are very large in diameter, will simply disfigure the PAK DA airframe and create serious problems for its stealth. But four PD-14s fit perfectly into the airframe, and also create a decent reserve of thrust and safety in the event of failure of one of the engines.
          In any case, there are no particular problems with choosing an engine - there are as many as three to choose from.
          The fate of the “Hunter” is now more interesting to me, because it is a very interesting tool for identifying and hunting enemy assets. It would not be out of place for Naval Aviation, although it is unlikely that anything larger than the X-35 and X-31 will fit into its weapons bay... Although it is possible that a couple of new X-50s will fit, which they will probably be able to do in anti-ship missiles. . “Hunter” was promised as a series almost this year.
          1. +1
            22 May 2024 11: 06
            This is the first time I’ve heard about the PD-14 on PAK YES. This is probably someone’s speculation.

            . Recently there has been news and a report about the launch of production of a modernized version of the D-18M to equip the existing An-124 and to launch their (An-124) updated version into production.


            The traction characteristics of the D-18 are the same as those expected from the NK-23D - 23,5 - 24 t.p. , but this is a proven engine with an acceptable service life for a military and transport aircraft.


            Officially they said that the production of the D-18T in a new version on the Russian technological base will begin in 2027. But this movement will only go to the An-124. For the PAK DA, an Izdeliye-RF is being created, which should allow the PAK DA to fly for 30 hours. There are strict requirements, including with regard to work under radiation and the like; civil aircraft will not meet such requirements.
            1. 0
              22 May 2024 11: 14
              In continuation of the post.

              . The fate of the “Hunter” is now more interesting to me, because it is a very interesting tool for identifying and hunting enemy assets.


              They write that production of the S-70 Okhotnik will begin in the second half of this year; it will also be able to operate air-to-air missiles based on guidance from other detection systems, be it air defense or the same Su-57.
            2. +2
              22 May 2024 13: 06
              Quote: OrangeBigg
              This is the first time I’ve heard about the PD-14 on PAK YES. This is probably someone’s speculation.

              No, the first pictures of the PAK DA were with four engines and it was assumed that they would be PD-14 (which was not ready yet). The safety, reliability and service life requirements for civil aircraft engines (oddly enough) are much higher than for military ones, but their operating modes are also somewhat different. Although for a bomber, civil aircraft engines, or their military modification, are much more preferable today. Of course, for subsonic missile-carrying bombers. And it was precisely about 4 PD-14 for the PAK DA that they talked and wrote about for several years since the first publications of the PAK DA's appearance. And then came the news about the American B-21 with two engines and ... the "monkey paw" effect began - they started talking about how "we should do it too", "we will make the NK-23D with a hot section and high bypass ratio", "we will combine the work on the engine for the PAK DA and the engine for re-engining the "Ruslans" standing without engines". Perhaps the last argument worked, because engines are our weak point, and here is such a chance to close two important topics at once with one engine ... And when they published pictures of the PAK DA with two NK-23Ds ... it was incredibly amazing. ... a kind of cross between Batman and Cheburashka. ... with huge air intakes in the lower part of the wing belay I can imagine HOW they will suck all the garbage from the strip. If they learn exactly this kind of game, there will be trouble. And I'm not even talking about the completely open engine turbines in the rear projection. While in the initial pictures with 4 engines, there was no mockery of the fuselage and the idea of ​​stealth - flat air intakes with curved air ducts, flat nozzles with mixing hot and cold flows for a less pronounced heat signature...
              Perhaps all these pictures are just a throw-in and confusion, but they wrote about it a lot and with enthusiasm, made videos and even showed reports about the start of assembly, and then about the progress of bench tests of the NK-23D. Moreover, they constantly emphasized that the NK-23D will also be used to re-engine the Ruslans. And then this news about the development of full and major repairs of the D-18 and the organization of production of all the components necessary for this. And then about plans to organize the production of a modernized version of the D-18 and the resumption of production of the Ruslans. It turns out that the NK-23D is no longer needed for the Ruslans ... then why such a monster for the PAK DA? When it is precisely because of the choice of SUCH an engine that the airframe is completely disfigured and the very possibility of stealth is killed ... and this VACUUM CLEANER under the wing in the role of an air intake?
              I will add that the abandonment of 4 PD-14s occurred when there were problems with its (PD-14) creation and the question was seriously raised that only American engines would be installed on the MS-21. And here is the idea to combine the program to restart the production of the NK-32M, and on their basis the NK-23D for the Ruslans and the PAK DA - in one fell swoop, killing THREE moose. . Now the Ruslans have fallen out, but... the mutilated PAK DA glider... remains? After all, during this time the PD-14 is already completely ready and its mass production has already begun. So maybe it's time to return to Reason? Or have you already returned? It will fly next year, but the NK-23D is definitely not ready for this yet?
              You also need to understand that the flight range of our PAK DA should be greater than that of the B-21 - the United States has plenty of bases all over the world, and our bombers will still need to return home after a long-distance flight. Therefore, the plane itself must be larger, and the 4th engine for such long flights is much more reliable than two.
            3. 0
              27 May 2024 20: 47
              Civil movement is installed on the B-52.
              So there is no need to talk about what does not exist.
              Both military and civilian engines operate under the same conditions. They have the same atmosphere. And what kind of radiation are you talking about?
          2. +1
            22 May 2024 14: 57
            The engines for the pack are made by Kuznetsov, the agreement was concluded in 2018, somewhere at the end of 2020 they planned to test it on the Il-76.
            1. +1
              22 May 2024 15: 55
              Quote from alexoff
              Engines for the pack are made by Kuznetsov,

              Yes, this is an NK-23D, but nothing has been announced yet about the start of flight tests on a flying laboratory while bench tests are ongoing. But they won’t install a crude engine on a completely new airframe. Engines take a long time to be born.
              But the PD-14 is already ready and I like the four-engine version of the PAK DA much more. And there are fewer risks.
              1. -1
                22 May 2024 16: 14
                Well, I haven’t heard anyone complain that Kuznetsov couldn’t do it and ruined the engine, maybe they forgot to tell us. That we like more different engines, types of MLRS, tanks, more different calibers for artillery - this is a fact and it greatly harms the army, but we have what we have
                1. +1
                  22 May 2024 16: 43
                  Quote from alexoff
                  Well, I haven’t heard anyone complain that Kuznetsov couldn’t do it and ruined the engine

                  Kuznetsov successfully coped with the restoration of production of the NK-32M for the Tu-160M\M2 and possibly for the Tu-22M3M, but this was the restoration of the production of an existing engine. But the NK-23D is a completely new engine that has never existed. Yes, the hot part is from the NK-32M, but this is an engine with a high bypass ratio, the dimensions and class of the D-18 (on which the Ruslans fly). And just imagine how to fit this monster into the PAK DA flying wing glider?
                  How to make a flat nozzle for such an engine? To reduce the heat signature and so that the turbines do not light up on radar?
                  How to make air intakes of THIS size and curved air ducts to the engine compressor? So that the fan blades are not visible?
                  Otherwise, why a “flying wing” and stealth technology if it has these engines both in front and behind on the radar that glow like a Christmas tree?
                  And why all this torment of creativity and mockery of the design idea? If there are already ready-made PD-14 engines, which were originally going to be installed? They fit perfectly into the airframe without disfiguring it, their air intakes and flat nozzles provide stealth in the radar range and a low thermal signature. In the end, two PL-14s are seriously more powerful than one NK-23D. They have a much longer service life, higher reliability, periods between repairs, they are easier to maintain and they ensure survivability in the event of failure of one of the engines without any special problems.
                  But the most important thing is that the PD-14 already exists and their serial production for the MS-21 has already begun. It’s just that their production will need to be expanded.
                  1. 0
                    22 May 2024 18: 07
                    I don’t know anything about what dimensions the engine will have and what dimensions they came up with. Whether they make it at all and at what stage it is, complete secrets request
                    1. 0
                      28 May 2024 07: 48
                      Quote from alexoff
                      full of secrets

                      Praise be to Ahura Mazda, they have learned to maintain secrecy in critically important areas. The confusion is through the roof and there is a lot to guess about. The main thing is that there are engines and even a choice. Maybe flight tests will begin soon.
                  2. 0
                    27 May 2024 20: 58
                    Kuznetsov was not successful and did not cope.
                    There were no new engines from scratch.
                    All restored.

                    PD-14 is the best option for a new strategist. Here I agree with you.
                    The experience of re-engining the B-52 to civilian engines from the Gulf Stream is proof of this.
                    1. 0
                      28 May 2024 08: 05
                      Quote: SovAr238A
                      Kuznetsov was not successful and did not cope.
                      There were no new engines from scratch.
                      All restored.

                      Let me doubt your knowledge. Even purely from arithmetic and common sense - such engines are needed not only to extend the life of old Tu-160s during their modernization, but also to power new Tu-160Ms. In addition, these (new NK-32M) were intended to be installed on the modernized Tu-22M3M. So, without resolving the issue of production of the NK-32M, it was impossible to do anything about it. Moreover, without resolving the issue of production of the NK-32M, it was impossible to begin work on the NK-23D (which is now continuing bench tests).
                      So the NK-32M is produced.
                      There is also information about the restoration of production of the NK-25 for the Tu-22M3 and M3M - in order not to remake the airframe and air intakes on old aircraft for the NK-32M, it is too troublesome and not financially justified.
                      Quote: SovAr238A
                      PD-14 is the best option for a new strategist.

                      This would be a very desirable solution. And all the "funny pictures" of a twin-engine configuration are most likely just fantasies of some "aviation enthusiasts".
                2. 0
                  27 May 2024 20: 55
                  If we take into account that Kuznetsov in the 90s destroyed almost all the design documentation for the NK-32, which is known to almost all engine engineers in the country and every employee of the plant, located in the Administrative town, in Samara, then we can say that Kuznetsov can screw it up.
                  It took 6 years to restore the CD, and it is not a fact that everything was restored and restored correctly.
                  And they didn’t just report.
                  There is no information about guaranteed NK-32s assembled from scratch.
                  Only restoration of previously produced ones.
                  1. osp
                    0
                    28 May 2024 00: 25
                    But what about the Al-41 engines with a thrust of 18 tons, which were developed and tested long ago for the MiG 1.44?
                    Wouldn't they be suitable for the Tu-160 if its weight was reduced?
                    The B-1B flies on engines with much lower thrust than the NK-32.
        2. +2
          22 May 2024 11: 14
          What kind of PAK-DA is there when from the very top they said in plain text that you need to start saving. And this device is the first candidate for this. Why do we need this silver bullet? Where can we apply it in the coming decades? It is useless against the West in an applied sense, only as a scarecrow. What do we need to target bomb in Europe? IMHO, there are no goals that can decide the outcome of the confrontation with the West. All critical targets are located overseas. IMHO, for practical purposes in the near future it is much more important to launch truly mass-produced (i.e. not expensive, i.e. single-engine and small-sized) stealth strikers, i.e. thousands of units to rivet Su-70s and hundreds of Su-75s.
          1. 0
            22 May 2024 11: 17
            Nothing was said about saving. On the contrary, the budget of the Russian Army for this year was increased. They said that a lot of money should be used wisely and for its intended purpose. You yourself thought of saving.
            Military Budgets of the World Countries 2024.

            They asked themselves.

            . Why do we need this silver bullet? Where can we apply it in the coming decades?


            They themselves answered.

            .All truly important targets are overseas.


            So we need PAK YES and it is already on its way.
            1. +2
              22 May 2024 11: 32
              If you want to understand what is really happening, then you need to read between the lines. It is still obvious that spending on war is growing unacceptably disproportionate to the growth of the economy, and there is no end in sight; we need to start doing something at the systemic level. Or there will be a collapse.
              The first step has already been taken - the minister-servant has been replaced with a minister-economist. Although, according to linear logic, since the armchair servant did not put up with the war, then it would be necessary to appoint a military general, and he would sort everything out. But they appointed an economist.
              1. +1
                22 May 2024 11: 34
                That is, you are not embarrassed by the criminal cases brought against Shoigu’s deputies and this, in your opinion, is not a sufficient reason for reshuffles? And the economist was appointed so that the money was counted and went only to the real needs of the Russian Army. And the military generals were directly involved in military affairs.
                1. +2
                  22 May 2024 11: 47
                  Let's do it again - they "suddenly" discovered that the bastards were stealing, and removed the "bad" minister. Why didn't they replace him with a brave military general with a crystal reputation? They would give him a deputy economist to “count the money”, and it’s all in the bag, after all, according to Feng Shui. Why did they do it completely differently, not according to this simple and intelligible logic?
                  1. +1
                    22 May 2024 11: 54
                    .Why didn’t they replace him with a brave military general with a crystal reputation?


                    Because a brave combat general must work either in the General Staff or on the battlefield, doing his immediate duties, and the position of the Minister of Defense is like a manager of the economy, who must provide the Army with everything necessary at the request of the military, and with the help of all this necessary, representatives of the General Staff and other command staff must achieve specific results. The function of the Minister of Defense is to balance the debit with the credit and conduct general economic activity, provide the Army with everything necessary. And here there were questions about Shoigu's deputies. As you yourself understand, Shoigu also came from the Ministry of Emergency Situations and was never a combat general. All combat operations are led by the General Staff.
            2. +2
              22 May 2024 12: 02
              IMHO, if in the European theater of operations stealth bombers can still be effectively used in a combined strike, i.e. after the suppression and depletion of air defense, as an economically justifiable means of delivering hundreds of tons of relatively cheap ammunition closer to the target. In principle, it will not be possible to deliver a combined strike across the ocean. Nothing. And there will be an unequal confrontation between hundreds of bombers against the entire defensive power of the United States. With a guaranteed negative result. The only theoretically workable scenario is achieving industrial potential after successful massive nuclear destruction. But something tells me that in this case we won’t have time for that at all, we’ll be busy with something completely different.
              1. -2
                22 May 2024 12: 06
                If everything was as you say, would they have invented the PAK DA, V-21, N-20? These are direct analogues.
                1. +3
                  22 May 2024 12: 28
                  We, the United States and China have never had a symmetrical position in the confrontation. The USA is right at our borders, for example, right in Europe, the USA is at the borders of China. And we and China are exactly across the ocean from the United States.
                  Regarding China, it has enough tasks for bombers other than the United States. Just offhand - to confront India, to protect potential hegemony in Africa.
                  Regarding why we did PAK-DA? Why did we make the PAK-FA, Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang, although they turned out to be inapplicable for a real war, the outlines of which were obvious long before?
                  Maybe the new minister will take care of the next mega-wants of the military and will now ask whether we really need another death star, let’s spend it on something less ambitious, but more practically effective?
                  1. -4
                    22 May 2024 12: 37
                    Specifically, the Su-57, aka the former PAK FA, is already quite usable in the North Military District, and for several years now. It’s not clear why you got the idea that it is not applicable in the Northern Military District. It has already shot down planes and destroyed air defenses and launched missile strikes against stationary objects. Kurganets and Boomerang frankly did not have time to finish, and in the North Military District equipment is needed en masse here and now, so they relied on the same BMP-3M, BMD-4M. Armata participated in the North Military District, but there was no desire to lose it so that someone would reveal its secrets and the impossibility here and now of starting mass production of the Armata, problems with crew training led to the fact that they relied on the simpler, mass-produced T-72BM3, T-80BVM and T-90M.
                    1. +5
                      22 May 2024 13: 22
                      Inapplicable means unacceptable in terms of efficiency/cost. The only significant criterion (specifically for a serious war). The rest is from the evil one.
                      Tales about some great achievements in the greenhouse conditions of single test flights, some terrible secrets that should not be given to the enemy at any cost (hundreds of burned “old” tanks, the war stalled for the third year, are they worth it?), about problems with mass production and army operation, and especially about “they didn’t have time to finish it” (in ten years!), I can’t take it seriously.
                      We won the previous war on unfinished and compromised hardware. Tanks built straight from drawing boards in an “open field”, with mediocre armor, guns, visibility and ergonomics, overweight wooden fighters with disgusting walkie-talkies, visibility and armor, attack aircraft without a gunner, how did we get out of the war with this? Especially against the backdrop of German masterpieces?! It's simple - efficiency/cost criterion. Despite all the disadvantages, the pros outweighed (this is a fundamental point). Cheap (i.e. massively), and cheerful. Russian style, which has proven its effectiveness in practice.
                      1. -2
                        22 May 2024 13: 26
                        Inapplicable means unacceptable in terms of efficiency/cost. The only significant criterion. The rest is from the evil one.


                        Well, let's talk about it. The Su-35S is good, but in 2024 the Su-57 will become the most produced Russian fighter. Representatives of the Russian military-industrial complex reported that in 2024, twice as many Su-57 fighters will be produced as in the previous year.

                        . “We have fulfilled the state defense order. As for the new aircraft, the order for the Su-57 has almost doubled".In 2023, UAC delivered 12 Su-57 aircraft, while in 2022 there were only six, and deliveries in 2024 will exceed 20 aircraft. This increase in production will make the Su-57 the most produced fighter in Russia, in second place - Su-34M. Annual deliveries of Su-34 are expected to amount to just under 20 aircraft... A key factor driving large-scale procurement is that the Su-57's lifetime cost is comparable to the Su-27, Su-30 and Su-35 it was designed to replace, allowing it to be used in place of these fourth-tier fighters. generations at a cost of one to one.


                        https://overclockers.ru/blog/Hardware_inc/show/129226/V-2024-godu-Su-57-stanet-samym-proizvodimym-rossijskim-istrebitelem

                        A key way in which Su-57 manufacturers achieved this was through the use of innovative solutions such as radar-absorbing fiberglass, which avoids the need for special radar-absorbing coatings, as is done on American fighters.

                        Another factor is the use of the AL-51 engine (formerly known as the Saturn 30), which has lower maintenance requirements and operating costs than the previous AL-31 and AL-41 that powered the Su-27/30 and Sukhoi Su-35/XNUMX. -XNUMX respectively.
                      2. -3
                        22 May 2024 13: 31
                        And you probably came up with something about the greenhouse conditions for the Su-57. It is used on a par with the Su-35S and Su-34M.
                      3. +2
                        22 May 2024 14: 16
                        Interesting information about life cycle cost. But, somewhat manipulative. For peacetime, for export, this is wonderful. And for a warring attack aircraft, cost is much more important than life cycle cost. With comparable combat effectiveness, of course. Because essentially it is a consumable. Like a tank. This is where the efficiency/cost criterion comes to the fore. What advantage does the Su-57 give over the Su-34/Su-35 in the current war? Can he, thanks to his type of "stealth", penetrate through air defense and take out everything there with impunity? No. Because if I could, I would have already done it. This means that this vaunted “radio-absorbing fiberglass” is meaningless within the framework of the current war, because it does not provide a new quality. This means that the aircraft that can effectively perform tasks without crossing the LBS, but at a lower cost, will be better. Those. Su-34/Su-35.
                        IMHO, in its current form, and even with the second stage engine, the Su-57 is not needed. Without a major redesign of its stealth type to be at least as good as the F-35, it will be a peacetime ceremonial aircraft. The previous minister-projector ordered as many as 76 pieces of meaningless pieces, let's see what the current one has to say.
                      4. -3
                        22 May 2024 14: 41
                        What advantage does the Su-57 give over the Su-34/Su-35 in the current war?


                        This advantage will manifest itself with the help of the stealth of the Su-57, which will give an advantage in air battles against the F-16 of the latest modifications and, as a result, air supremacy will remain with us. The Su-35S does not have stealth technology and, as a result, can be detected from long distances in air battles with the F-16 and therefore there can be serious problems, loss of sides.

                        Can he, thanks to his type of "stealth", penetrate through air defense and take out everything there with impunity? No.


                        Maybe. Read the British press about the destruction of Ukrainian Armed Forces air defense systems in the Northern Military District zone with the help of the Su-57. You’ll just have to look for the link now.

                        .Because if I could, I would have already done it. This means that this vaunted “radio-absorbing fiberglass” is meaningless within the framework of the current war, because it does not provide a new quality.


                        So he has already done this. They just didn’t tell you personally. That’s what new quality is being ensured.
                      5. -1
                        22 May 2024 14: 47
                        Continuing the post

                        Kyiv is waiting for supplies of F-16 fighters from its Western allies, hoping that they will help in the fight against Russian aircraft, writes the American magazine Newsweek.

                        “Ukraine hopes that these F-16s will help its armed forces match the capabilities of the Russian fleet of Su-57 fighters, which have been in use since the very beginning of the conflict,” the publication notes.

                        The publication's columnist adds that "the Su-57's advanced stealth technologies pose a serious problem." In turn, the F-16 was created 50 years ago and was initially developed as a light day fighter. The F-16 is inferior to the more modern Su-57 in a number of characteristics, as emphasized in the material.
                      6. +1
                        22 May 2024 21: 34
                        Ok, I agree, the Su-57 is perfect for dogfights with the F-16. But who told you that they will exist in principle? No one in their right mind would pose the task of fighting for air supremacy to him. The task will be simple - a not too expensive replacement of the MiG-29 and Su-25 drummers, who are forced to fly behind the LBS (there are no normal remote means), and therefore, periodically raking away from our Sushki, which are almost finished. The F-16 will operate remotely, using Western remote weapons, from its territory, under the cover of the Patriots, and space control by AWACS. And in this paradigm, it is simply not destined to meet the Su-57 in an air battle, unless the Ukrovoyaks decide on some kind of PR adventure.
              2. 0
                22 May 2024 15: 47
                In principle, it will not be possible to deliver a combined strike across the ocean. Nothing.
                From what?
                And there will be an unequal confrontation between hundreds of bombers against the entire defensive power of the United States.
                In this hypothetical case, there will be a confrontation of the entire defense power of the United States against a wave of all sorts of cruise and not so, hypersonic and not so missiles. Which have a flight range of up to ~5000 km and with nuclear warheads. Therefore, a hundred bombers will fall short of reaching the line of enemy air defense and missile defense. And the entire defense power of the United States will be, to put it mildly, battered by a massive salvo of ICBMs. Since ICBMs fly to North America much faster than the PAK DA planned for such a case.
                These points must be taken into account.
                1. 0
                  22 May 2024 21: 44
                  That's all true, but if you're going to be more specific, remember how many AUGs the US has - something like ten. So the Americans have thought about everything about the launch boundaries for a long time. Although, of course, there are nuances, such as the Arctic ice, which prevents you from swimming where you want (but which is actually melting rapidly).
        3. 0
          23 May 2024 16: 07
          Hmm... if they start making similar guano here, it will be the next and largest disaster of the Russian military aviation industry... Our bolivar (state budget) will not take out such (such expensive and useless crap)... I hope, I really hope that It’s all a joke, it’s just that this British hippie didn’t drink tea in the morning - so he started talking all sorts of nonsense.
    2. +7
      22 May 2024 05: 14
      Maximum speed, not maximum speed – but 300 km/h is an abyss.

      There is not such a gap that an air-to-air missile cannot overcome it...
      Reading the article, I couldn’t help but think that more and more often the achievements of the United States are being compared with the achievements of the PRC.
      Russia in this competition consistently takes the seats of fans (or on the bench)...
      This sucks!!!
      1. +1
        22 May 2024 09: 18
        Not such an abyss

        Well, it doesn't really exist. The bomber will gobble up fuel at supersonic speeds and it's not a fact that it will run away to where no one is waiting for it. It will first see the fact of irradiation. Most likely by an AWACS aircraft, a ship's radar, or a ground-based radar. Yes, long before they detect it themselves. It will try to go around, if it has enough fuel. As a result, it will run into another surveillance radar (or not. Then the enemy's air defense is worth a dime). And the interceptor fighters will receive coordinates from the centers, and will turn on their radars only at the attack line. Or they will fly silently until they reach the heat finder. The bomber will find out about them only when its tail is torn off. And the Americans have a regular group of a couple of F-15s, a tactical AWACS aircraft and a tanker.
        1. 0
          22 May 2024 18: 07
          AWACS, shipborne, ground-based radars and fighters can detect anything, for example, a massive raid of UAVs simulating cruise missiles and aircraft, among which real aircraft will be walking.
          Quote: dauria
          He will first see the fact of exposure. Most likely by an AWACS aircraft, a shipborne or ground-based radar. Yes, long before they discover it themselves. Will try to get around if there is enough fuel. As a result, it will run into another surveillance radar (or it won’t. Then the enemy’s air defense is worthless) And interceptor fighters will receive coordinates from the centers, and will turn on their radars only at the line of attack. Or they will fly silently all the way to the direction finder. Bomber only finds out about them when his tail is torn off. And the amers have the usual group of a pair of F-15s, an AWACS tactical aircraft and a tanker.
          1. +1
            22 May 2024 18: 13
            Why then a strategist, if a cruise missile and even a mass-produced UAV can get to you? And AWACS radars have become smarter for a long time now and can distinguish a corner reflector from a bomber by signature. The strategist's task was to hobble like a quiet mouse to the attack line, launch a cruise missile and disappear.
            1. 0
              22 May 2024 19: 16
              Why then do you need a strategist if a cruise missile and even a massive UAV can do it?

              A long-range bomber can carry cruise missiles, missiles and multi-purpose UAVs, which will be dropped from it at the right time (these UAVs can also be carried by military transport aircraft and fighters).

              And it’s been a long time since AWACS radars have become smarter and are able to distinguish a corner reflector from a bomber by their signature.
              They will still try to shoot it down, diverting forces.





      2. -5
        22 May 2024 14: 04
        Yeah, provided that firstly you get within range of using the missile, about 100 kilometers, and secondly, you manage to lock on the target with a radar, taking into account the most wrinkled electronic warfare of the Tu160, which will reduce the guidance range to 20 kilometers. The Tu160 hits the missile at 5000 km, just estimate, it is unlikely to approach an aircraft carrier or to US territory within the range of a fighter, and if it does, then when it is detected, it will move its legs and here 300 km is oh so significant, considering that for a fighter the afterburner significantly reduces the range.
        1. +1
          22 May 2024 15: 04
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          Yeah, provided that you first get within range of using the missile, about 100 kilometers

          Let's clarify about the radar:
          According to the Jane military reference book, the Raptor radar has a working detection range of 193 km, which provides an 86% probability of detecting a target with ESR = 1 square. m on one pass of the antenna beam.

          about the AIM-120D missile:
          Maximum launch range - 180 km...
          Quote: Victor Sergeev
          Tu160 hits a rocket at 5000 km,

          On a ground stationary target...
          There is no need to attribute fantastic characteristics to the Tu-160...
          1. 0
            23 May 2024 17: 05
            Quote: ROSS 42
            about the AIM-120D missile:
            Maximum launch range - 180 km...

            On paper it is, but you forgot to say:
            1) on a collision course!
            2) at an altitude of 18000 m
            3) for a low-maneuverable target

            There is no need to attribute fantastic characteristics to the AIM-120D...
            1. 0
              23 May 2024 17: 13
              Quote: Vladimir Yurievich
              There is no need to attribute fantastic characteristics to the AIM-120D...

              It's not me. This is what it says in:
              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120_AMRAAM#Тактико-технические_характеристики
              1. 0
                23 May 2024 17: 16
                It's clear. This is advertising. Marketing. Well, who wants to dig a little deeper?)))
                1. +1
                  23 May 2024 17: 20
                  Quote: Vladimir Yurievich
                  It's clear. This is advertising. Marketing.

                  The fact is that in life we ​​can look, smell and touch a very limited number of things with our hands.
                  As for ammunition and similar products, some can be touched only once, but you won’t be able to tell about your personal feelings...
                  1. 0
                    23 May 2024 20: 42
                    I agree with you. However, many of those things that we cannot touch with our hands, we can analyze using scientific knowledge and logic.
        2. +5
          22 May 2024 20: 29
          The Hokkai AWACS plane will spot the Tu-160, shoot down a couple of F-15s, and a KS-10 tanker will refuel all three. This is their typical group that will keep watch on the route across the Arctic. How are we going to drive off the adversaries? We'll drag the MiG-31 on a rope? It won't even have enough fuel for one trip. The chances against the AUG are also almost zero. Their interception range has already been increased to 900 km from the order. From such a distance, the aircraft will not be able to give target designation to the missile. Unless you tell it - "fly in that direction, circle around there, maybe you'll figure it out." But even that's not bad. The fact is that we have a pittance of bombers, and the regiment should have been destroyed by the standards of the 80s.
          1. 0
            23 May 2024 16: 42
            Quote: dauria
            Against AUG there is also almost zero chance. Their interception limit has already been increased to 900 km from the warrant. From such a distance, the aircraft will not be able to give target designation to the missile.

            Very optimistic 900 km for interception...
            Detection of the E-2D Hokai - max 400 km + combat radius of the side 250-300 = max 700 km, then: if there is no F-18 duty unit in the area, plus 10 minutes takeoff-acceleration-approach, and this is at least another 100- 120 km of approach to the AUG (at supersonic speed - 250 km of approach), so a realistically possible interception of an airborne medium-altitude target will be at a distance of 450-500 km from the order no more, and this is Onyx and even more so Zircon and even X-32
            1. 0
              23 May 2024 20: 19
              Americans also know how to count. And they are kept by tankers for this purpose. Including some of the F-18s, they were forced to equip some for this purpose. This is why they are trying to adapt UAVs. And the 900 km line is really like that now.
              1. 0
                23 May 2024 20: 36
                Refuelers will not help against mathematics)))
                Perhaps, in combat mode, duty units will be on constant patrol in a dangerous direction, plus F-18 tankers can slightly increase the time the E-2D is in the air, but increasing its combat radius by 60% is unrealistic.
                It's not even mathematics, it's simple arithmetic!
                Fear has big eyes, of course, but no more than 600 km!
                1. +1
                  23 May 2024 20: 46
                  Why are you discounting destroyers? They don't rub shoulder to shoulder next to an aircraft carrier. Even in 1980, a regiment of Tu-22Ms had to be destroyed on one aircraft carrier with dubious success. Here's an old picture from those years.
                  1. 0
                    23 May 2024 21: 19
                    It's hard to disagree with this argument. The destroyers have SM-2 with a declared maximum range of hitting high-altitude targets at 15 km in altitude and 150 km in range, that is, in reality, approximately +/- 80 km in effective range of hitting. And the purpose of SM-2 is ballistic or quasi-ballistic targets - missiles. Well, the destroyer itself can wander as far as it wants from the order, although in reality no further than 50 km - no one removed the anti-submarine function from it, so it is impossible to calculate by simple addition. However, if I were the Americans, I would generally say 1200!
                  2. 0
                    23 May 2024 21: 38
                    TU-22 is only part of the strike force; there were also P-700 Granit from cruisers of projects 1143 and 1144 and from nuclear submarines of project 949. And such a blow decided the matter with the AUG.
      3. +1
        23 May 2024 16: 15
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Maximum speed, not maximum speed – but 300 km/h is an abyss.

        There is not such a gap that an air-to-air missile cannot overcome it...

        Finally a sane idea!
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Reading the article, I couldn’t help but think that more and more often the achievements of the United States are being compared with the achievements of the PRC.

        It dawns on you a little late... do you watch TV often? This situation has existed for five years now. Also, take an interest in the annual number of patents...
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Russia in this competition consistently takes the seats of fans (or on the bench)...
        This sucks!!!

        It is perfectly!!! But you don’t need to get sick, that’s what football and hockey are for! Such capital investments are better spent on peaceful purposes: schools, hospitals, roads, pensions... right?
    3. +8
      22 May 2024 05: 45
      700 million for one plane x 145 planes + 50 billion = 151 billion 500 million.
      A simple calculator + knowledge of arithmetic and no new rules in mathematics...
    4. IVZ
      +1
      22 May 2024 05: 46
      It seems that, according to the old rules, this is 50 billion 700 million, no?..

      145 aircraft for 700 lyams + 50 lards. Based on the materials of the article. In general, it is informative for forecasting.
    5. +2
      22 May 2024 05: 54
      Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
      700 million + 50 billion equals 151 billion?! A new word in mathematics?! It seems that, according to the old rules, this is 50 billion 700 million, no?..

      You suck at math, grandpa!!! fool
      (700 x 000) + 000 = 145 + 50 = 000!!!
      ≈ 150 billion...
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. 0
      22 May 2024 14: 06
      Or maybe it doesn’t hurt to turn on your brain first, read it again, and then think? Although no, write quickly to be the first, even if it’s stupid.
    8. O_A
      0
      23 May 2024 10: 20
      You slightly forgot to multiply 700 million by the number of bombers.
    9. 0
      23 May 2024 21: 57
      700 million + 50 billion equals 151 billion?! A new word in mathematics?! It seems that, according to the old rules, this is 50 billion 700 million, no?

      700 million * 145 aircraft = 101500 million Plus 151 billion for development, total 152.5 billion for pleasure.
      152.5 billion / 145 aircraft = 1,05 billion per aircraft, taking into account development.

      Go to school.
    10. 0
      16 July 2024 11: 15
      700 million times the number of cars multiplied. 700 by 145 equals 101 billion 500 million. Plus 50 billion and there will be 151 billion
  2. +7
    22 May 2024 05: 17
    Complete fortune-telling based on coffee grounds, taking into account the fact that the author of the fortune-telling himself is not an aviation expert.
    1. 0
      22 May 2024 12: 03
      Quote: Kolin
      Complete fortune-telling based on coffee grounds, taking into account the fact that the author of the fortune-telling himself is not an aviation expert.

      May you finally enlighten the unreasonable author and users... Like in that movie:
      Every now and then I hear: “Zhores did not take into account”, “Herzen failed”, “Tolstoy misunderstood”...

      Prove on the site what exactly you took into account, managed and understood...
  3. +4
    22 May 2024 05: 37
    Jumping from the Tu-16, which comes from the 50s of the last century, through designs like the Tu-160 and B-2 directly to the B-21, is very difficult
    Passing the Tu-160 is just very simple; there is no comparison in the complexity of the design or production of a flying wing with a heavy supersonic aircraft.
  4. 0
    22 May 2024 05: 46
    Quote: Grandfather is an amateur
    The cost of one plane is 700 million dollars, and 50 more billions was spent on development. All in all - 151 billion dollars for all the pleasure.
    700 million + 50 billion equals 151 billion?! A new word in mathematics?! It seems that, according to the old rules, this is 50 billion 700 million, no?.. what

    700 million for one plane x 145 planes + 50 billion = 151 billion 500 million.
    A simple calculator + knowledge of arithmetic and no new rules in mathematics...
  5. +1
    22 May 2024 06: 13
    The N-20 is something similar to the B-2

    In turn, the B-2 is something similar to the Horten Ho 229 V3.
    Or is it another?
    1. kpd
      -1
      22 May 2024 06: 41
      This is really different, Northrop began experimenting with flying wing aircraft back in 1929.
      1. 0
        22 May 2024 06: 52
        What are the fundamental differences between Northrup's aircraft and the B-2?
  6. 0
    22 May 2024 06: 34
    You can confidently put an end to the PAK DA project; it practically does not exist even on paper.

    What is the basis for such a strong statement?
    And why did they decide that the N-20 is a purely Chinese “miracle”, and not one of the versions of the numerous variants of the PAK DA?
  7. +1
    22 May 2024 06: 44
    Having suffered through both iterations of the B-1, Lockheed specialists came up with a unique hybrid design, which they implemented during the Advanced Technology Bomber program, as a result of which the B-2 was born.
    Lockheed has very little to do with bombers. The B-1 was made by Rockwell, the B-2 and B-21 were the brainchildren of Northrop Grumman. And Lockheed is more into fighters.
    It is believed that the stealth N-20, equipped with the latest AFAR radar, will be able to collect information about the enemy and transmit it using a satellite system
    Radar carriers, be it AFAR or any kind, expose themselves the moment the radar is turned on, so stealth is of no use here.
    1. 0
      22 May 2024 15: 01
      Stealth can be a great help when incoming missiles appear on the radar. After this, you can turn off the radar and pray that the missiles will lose their target
  8. +1
    22 May 2024 07: 28
    Geography is critical.

    If we talk about a conflict between these countries, the US will easily and quickly reach Chinese territory from its bases, while China will only reach US allies and bases on their territory with its aircraft. Therefore, a bomber, even one like the B-52, can be useful to the US, but to a much lesser extent to China. So it is not a fact that China will rush into a bomber race; an asymmetric response in the form of, for example, hypersonic missiles is more suitable for it.
    1. +1
      23 May 2024 16: 19
      How rare are reasonable comments here lately...
  9. +1
    22 May 2024 13: 05
    Yes, this is the fight, the finished serial B21 and the N20 model, the fight of the century.
  10. -1
    22 May 2024 13: 58
    I don't understand why a strategist needs stealth. His job is to take off and fire a missile, the further from the enemy the better. A waste of money, a waste of the budget and a show-off. They fly along the borders without weapons, have fun, there is no other point. They will make another wonder weapon and keep it in a hangar so that it doesn't get dirty and the coating doesn't peel off, in case of war they will pull out a couple and even use them for show, dropping bombs on savages who have no air defense.
    1. 0
      23 May 2024 16: 52
      And again a rare common sense thought! The strategist does not need stealth at all)
      Both the Americans and the Chinese need this airborne airwave only to frighten the overseas Papuans and cause attacks of oriental pride and stars-and-stripes euphoria among part of their moronic population. The main goal is the development and distribution of military budgets! And in this sense, this is normal for owls; it is not clear why we or the Chinese would engage in such nonsense like some kind of N or “pak da”?
  11. +3
    22 May 2024 14: 52
    I wonder, is PAK DA aware that Skomorokhov sentenced him and that he is not even on paper?
  12. 0
    23 May 2024 11: 52
    Then explain to people why our specialists are developing a new strategist with subsonic speed?
  13. 0
    23 May 2024 12: 09
    The Chinese undoubtedly kept an eye on everything they could get their hands on and made certain conclusions in the development of the H-20, including (possibly) folding vertical tail fins with variable tilt geometry, which will overcome some of the problems during low-speed flight, and will also allow for reduced visibility and increased efficiency in cruising mode.

    Vertical keels, plumage keels are oil.
    The main problem of such machines is flight stability caused by the lack of vertical tail.

    This is quite correct.

    In Russian:
    Vertical tail = Keel
    Horizontal tail = Stabilizer
    and vice versa.

    Well, they've already tortured me, there's blood coming out of my eyes((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
  14. +2
    31 May 2024 20: 46
    Roman, learn the materiel as they say. The operating speed of the Tu160 is subsonic. And if, in your words, you “crank it up” to 2200 km/h, then it will burn all the fuel in less than an hour.
    And yes, on the radar screen it is clearly visible from several hundred kilometers away, so interception for an F18 flying towards it is not a question at all. The time of high-speed bombers passed in the late 1960s and will not return. That is why the Americans canceled the XB70 program, and the USSR followed them with the Su Sotka. Even the B1B, developed in the early 70s and serving its life in the US Air Force, differs from the original version in a significantly reduced cruising speed. Where and why drive if the interceptor missile flies 2 times faster?