Some thoughts on the Islamic banking experiment

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Some thoughts on the Islamic banking experiment

Recently, more and more often we see advertisements of the so-called. “Islamic banking”, “Islamic mortgage”. As an experiment, this legal financial regime was adopted at the legislative level in July last year and is valid from September 2023 to September 2025.

Even at the discussion stage, it was obvious that the innovation would be perceived in society, at best, “ambiguously.”



Firstly, the situation with migration today is such that a significant part of society will a priori perceive this financial legal regime as something aimed at creating preferences for migrants.

Secondly, the experiment is being launched in certain regions (Chechen Republic, Bashkortostan Republic, Tatarstan Republic, Dagestan Republic). Outwardly, this looks like separating some of the regions of Russia into a separate legal regime.

You can also describe “thirdly”, “fourthly”, “fifthly”, etc. The problem is generally clear; few people have encountered such a legal financial regime “live”, and searching in the information environment would rather raise more questions than provide answers.

The law itself (No. 417-FZ) is formally quite extensive (37 pages), but reading it leaves the impression that for the creators this legislative novelty became a legal experiment and a test of the pen.

Frankly speaking, if we take similar legal regimes in the Middle East, there are no direct similarities. And again, this can be understood, since 417-FZ makes an attempt to link the “regular” banking sector and the so-called. “Islamic”, but they are fundamentally not consistent with each other and, in general, live a “parallel life”.

Such an attempt to merge the snake and the hedgehog together due to a basic contradiction will most likely end at the experimental level. But there will not be much joy for critics here, since there is a fairly significant layer of norms that it would not be out of place to legislatively introduce into our domestic traditional finance.

Many people know that “Islamic banking” is work without interest on a loan, since there is a direct ban on usury. Accordingly, 417-FZ contains Art. 2 clause 2 as follows:

“Participants in the experiment, when making transactions (operations) while carrying out partnership financing activities, do not have the right to set remuneration expressed in the form of an interest rate.”

And here the nuances immediately begin, not one or two, but many.

The fact is that today the ban on “giving money away for growth” is already of a purely religious nature. However, at the stage of formation, when religious norms were intertwined with everyday ethics, gradually replacing ethics with a religious norm, the ban on usury was perceived by traditional society very complimentarily. There was no need to force anything out; this interweaving was organic and natural.

Islamic banking in ancient times is not a usurious office in the manner of the Byzantine or Venetian, it is, in fact, the finances of a religious community. You either invest your money in a commercial enterprise, lend money while being a member of the community, or the community itself provides such financing.

In this regard, the usurious interest becomes absurd in meaning, since it means that the borrower is not a member of the community. This was also abnormal for the pre-Islamic community, it was condemned at that time, and for the religious community it is completely nonsense.

With the spread of religion to the entire social field in the Middle East, this norm was quite organically accepted at the level of tribes and communities, which were now becoming one large community, with the same principles and norms.

However, this spread and consolidation also had its own characteristics, namely increasing and tightening requirements not only for the transactions themselves, but also for financial management in general.

For example, to the source of money, the method of accumulating wealth, the details of wealth management. At the same time, if Christianity describes more the basic principles of building relationships, then the religious norms of Islam are distinguished by maximum detail; from the basic principle, regulation descends to the level of the most specific actions.

Here lies the main contradiction between the “Islamic banking” that we are trying to build as an experiment, and the modern, familiar financial model. Here, one of the main operators of “Islamic banking” is Sber. That is, Sber/Sberbank is a participant in the experiment.

However, the question immediately arises: are the funds that Sber allocates for “partnership financing” obtained by earning interest or not? And it’s not just a question of the notorious loan interest rate. After all, there is also the issue of secondary financial instruments; interest-bearing bonds, for example, also belong to the category of doubtful assets in this paradigm.

It is great that a client can come to the bank and choose an “Islamic mortgage” as an option. But in this case, the bank itself, if it issues its own funds, then issues from those that were received, as they put it in ancient times, through “bad profit.”

After all, what you earned on interest, even if it was given to you under a contract based on religious norms, has not ceased to be earned on interest, that is, in an unjust way. And profits from not all types of activities can be transferred to an Islamic loan.

You can have a current and correspondent account in a traditional bank, make payments, but you can no longer receive interest on the account balance, as well as withdraw part of the reserves into an interest-bearing deposit or invest in secondary financial instruments of the bank.

In the Western understanding this is “profit”, in the Islamic paradigm it is not. To make a profit, you need to have something sold (confirmed by the seller) and something bought (confirmed by the buyer) with a fixed price. To make a profit, money should not be kept on deposits at interest, but invested in something that has or will have measure and weight.

The difference between trading operations will be profit, but interest on a deposit in a bank that issues loans at interest is no longer profit. Moreover, Islamic banking will not provide you with funds for such an operation.

This system distinguishes between financial speculation and trading in a specific product. Although for Russian society, for example, trade can also be (perceived) speculative.

In the Middle East, this contradiction is resolved through the creation of separate funds, the capital of which is formed either through associations of entrepreneurs, or through associations and state sovereign funds, or through specifically Islamic funds that initially operate within such “community” standards.

And this is how it works everywhere, even in Turkey, which is the most Europeanized. In Turkey, this function is not performed by ordinary banks, as an option in the list for clients, but by Special Financial Houses (SFDs), which are also sometimes called a “bank”, but this is not a modern bank. And such a SFD is separately connected to the Central Bank system. The same story and in Kuwait, UAE, Jordan. Then they link themselves into a kind of network.

A large traditional bank can be built into this system, but here it acts not as a source of funds, but as a performer of transactions. The source is precisely funds that are separately certified, do not finance “wrong activities,” and a traditional bank already makes payments using their funds.

How to include in such a network the same absolutely traditional bank in the Western sense, like Sber, and with the funds of Sber, is, frankly speaking, difficult to understand.

That is, in theory, such funds should open accounts (with their own funds) in Sberbank under a separate program, and the bank already carries out transfers on instructions within the framework of agreements between the funds and the client under the Islamic banking program.

Even in Turkey, which so values ​​a “return to Ottoman roots,” many would prefer to take out an overdraft from a regular bank to finance foreign trade transactions at a fairly low interest rate than to go to the complex partner system of the SFD. That is, it is easier to provide routine operations in the usual way, but it is interesting to consider project activities through the SFD.

And here another pitfall arises, or rather, a feature of the system. Again, we need to understand what is permitted profit and what profit is not permissible. For example, you are offered a product secured by an asset. In the usual scheme, the principle of collateral discount works even in private settlements, and from the point of view of an ordinary bank, a discount of 30% is generally the norm.

But in Islamic finance there is no collateral discount. There is a market price for the asset that is being pledged, and it is fixed at the time of the agreement. If you took an asset as collateral, sold it, paying off the debt, then the amount in excess of the contract must be given to the one who owed you. Otherwise, this is again, in the old Russian way, “bad profitability,” and maybe even extortion in general.

There is no doubt that the entire domestic business, which has assets as collateral in banks with discounts of up to 40-45% of the market value, would gladly go into that same Islamic banking, waving a hand to domestic banks. It’s the same with real estate collateral for individuals using a loan. It is difficult to say how the domestic system will resolve the issue of collateral discounts.

At the same time, we are not talking about the fact that loans in this system are always cheaper, they are simply different, and although the starting cost may seem higher, in fact it is usually lower due to greater transparency and reliability.

In this unusual financial sphere, work on the same mortgage, and leasing in general, is structured differently. Because the most important thing is the negotiated price. Changing the contract price in the Islamic sphere, if possible, is very difficult.

By the way, domestic entrepreneurs usually fall for this bait, who “for the sake of relationships” often agree to review the contract price at the request of their Middle Eastern partners, but are very surprised when the request in the opposite direction does not go through. But here the principle “you give me, I will give you” does not work.

Also, the bank cannot charge you, for example, a penalty for a fine, which must also be firmly agreed upon in a specific amount. Penalties are generally not encouraged here. It will not be possible for a bank (or in the field of private commercial relations) to revise expenses, recalculate exchange rate differences, add payments “due to the market situation,” etc.

There are many examples of differences in approaches and fundamental examples that can be given. The question is that precisely in terms of operating principles, Islamic banking and traditional “Western-style” banking have a rather weak connection with each other.

From the point of view of creating a medium-sized enterprise for commodity production, including for export, the Islamic system has many significant advantages, since financing is truly carried out on a partnership basis, and you do not pay for the loan simply on the principle of “take it out and put it down”, if for some reason For these reasons, actual profit lags behind the planned one.

Another thing is that these loss-loss thresholds are fixed in advance. Collateral, including surety, will be used in this case. Although at a market price.

On the other hand, what does a business do when its financial results sag and it has to pay off regular loans? He refinances money elsewhere, often at a loss, or siphons off funds from circulation in the hope of a better time.

Such schemes do not work here. Moreover, this can lead to legal proceedings. You cannot work with escheat property, lend it yourself at interest, etc., because the relationship is no longer just “take out a loan and go,” but a partnership and based on the same principles. This is already a kind of “charter” between the borrower and the lender.

In general, the work here is more reminiscent of the so-called. “Documentary collection”, where the bank makes payments using funds from a financial fund against a client contract and documents. It will be difficult to get into the body of a loan for the wrong purposes, but getting part of the profit in the end is very easy and transparent.

In general, such a “charter” also works in terms of relations between the client and the lender at various levels and is very different from the accepted norms of Western-style bankers.

For example, in Islamic banking, the lender cannot refuse to give the client a credit deferment if there are valid reasons. That is, he cannot give, or may not give, but he is obliged to give.

You can’t just expose the mortgagee to the cold, sell the property at a deliberate discount, earn 40% on this, and the mortgagee will still owe money. Such schemes do not work there. After all, initially the same mortgagee (remember the beginning of the material) is a member of the community. The communities, of course, are different, but the principle itself remains unchanged.

The examples given are only a small part of this old and very peculiar financial system. But it is necessary to bring them up, since there is a non-zero probability that the traditional banking system will slightly reduce the experiment in “Islamic banking” to nothing. And that's bad.

At the same time, the system itself is indeed quite complex. In Turkey, for example, it accounts for about 15% of total banking turnover, and in the Gulf countries 40-45%. But we should not forget that regular banking there is much more complimentary to the client than our domestic lenders.

For a traditional Western-style bank, this system is largely antagonistic. But for an ordinary person and entrepreneur, many of its elements look adequate and fair.

In this regard, the experiment, in our Russian realities, seems to be a certain puzzle for religious scientists. But, on the other hand, it will be possible to try to put some restrictions on the appetites of traditional banks. And it is possible that banks may consider the word “Islamic” as a convenient marketing tool, and here those same scientists will have to closely monitor the programs.

You should not react negatively to the word “Islamic banking”. On the contrary, it’s worth studying this system. Some principles of work need to be pushed by any means in the form of legislative norms into our ordinary banking system, which will precisely resist this.

___________
On link You can look at the job description and list of products with examples of contract models from the Turkish “Albaraka Türk Participation Bank”.
78 comments
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  1. +12
    21 May 2024 04: 45
    The article is very interesting, but I didn’t fully understand =(, I’m not an economist. But I understand that Islamic mortgages are much more humane than the ones that operate here. But I think our banks will not allow the Russians to use it, we need someone to then steal money. But I think migrants will be welcome! Most likely, this is all for this purpose...
    1. +3
      21 May 2024 05: 11
      That's right. Now, to the two forces - hunters for resources and influence (USA and China), a third has been added - the Arabs... And not without success. They have a strong position in some industries. Territory will be added to the banking sector smile
    2. +8
      21 May 2024 05: 27
      Yes, a lot. It is based on the subsidiary, community principle. In this regard, I think that it would be logical to use some approaches to humanize the domestic credit system. Moreover, despite the word “Islamic,” there is no work based on religion. There is a ban on financing specific areas. This is why I suspect that in the end our banks will use a marketing ploy to attract clients from the same area of ​​migration, and then quietly drop the topic on the brakes. But we need to do something to introduce some approaches into our system and not let it go off topic. winked
      1. +2
        21 May 2024 06: 31
        Or maybe for migrants to create their own Bank. With a transfer system (and no longer transfer what they earn to the villages). With Horse Interest.
        1. +3
          21 May 2024 06: 44
          Quote from: dmi.pris1
          Or maybe for migrants to create their own Bank. With a transfer system (and no longer transfer what they earn to the villages). With Horse Interest.

          Percentage is not allowed. request But the fee for the translation service is quite reasonable. Yes
          1. +5
            21 May 2024 07: 13
            And I mean percentage. So that they know where they are going. If you don’t assimilate, you don’t recognize the Russian language, the laws are a horse percentage. Or go back to the village.
            1. +4
              21 May 2024 07: 21
              Quote from: dmi.pris1
              Or back to the village.
              And it’s even more correct without the “or”. You don’t assimilate, you don’t recognize the Russian language, laws, don't pay taxes - back to the village, with the confiscation of all cash and valuables, the receipt of which was not documented through legal means. And if there is a crime in your heart, first wave your pick for the good of Russia as much as required by law, and then go back to the village.
          2. +2
            21 May 2024 11: 11
            The author made such a mistake in the article that... He mixed together Islamic banking, working capital and public and operating funds, etc. Without explaining how Islamic banking works. And there everything is simple - instead of the notorious "usurious interest", the amount included in the contract is paid: the amount of "gratitude" and the fee for the "service".
    3. +3
      21 May 2024 09: 31
      But I think our banks will not allow the Russians to take advantage of it; they need to extract money from someone. But I think migrants will be welcome!

      Super! That is, this is no longer a “mine”, but some kind of “atomic bomb” for the future, dividing people in one state according to different criteria, and now also in the financial sphere according to religion... All the media are literally shouting about “brotherhood” peoples", but what happens in reality?
      Most likely, this is what all this is for...

      It’s really not clear what this is all about...
      1. +4
        21 May 2024 09: 45
        That is, this is no longer a “mine”, but some kind of “atomic bomb” for the future
        This cannot be called anything other than an even greater split in society...
      2. +2
        21 May 2024 15: 38
        This financial model can be used regardless of nationality and religion. Everyone is confused by the word “Islamic,” but even Federal Law 417 says “partnership financing.” You look at what useful things can be found there, and whether the appetites of the banking system can be limited. And everyone sees “Islamic” and grabs their heads - guard duty. So under one problem you can bring everything, both useful and not useful. So you can’t study any experience at all, why? Bankers can simply continue to do well.
      3. +2
        23 May 2024 22: 47
        Doccor18. (Alexander). 21 May 2024 09:31. YOURS - “...All the media are literally shouting about the “brotherhood of peoples,” but what happens in reality?...”

        In reality it's even more interesting. in Christianity. Just like Islam, THERE WAS NO INTEREST INITIALLY! belay bully
        This is an invention оmany but very progmatic people bully . who launched this “project” for ALIENS. belay to financially stimulate OUR OWN (THE OWN % IS NOT TAKEN FROM OWN). love
        And "valya" Let's remember the film Republic of SHKID (1966) - tells about street children who end up in an orphanage and create a kind of independent state, where they, together with teachers, solve all the problems that confront them and call the state the republic of SHKID.
        ...a cunning “kind” one appears, first giving his bread to the hungry kids at extortionate rates. Gives you garbushka in the morning. in the evening and the next morning I took 2 pieces of bread. bully Then he “bribed” the older and stronger ones for food. and simply put robbery on stream. am His kingdom ends when all the pupils en masse refused to pay him interest. The moneylender's retinue could not cope with everyone, although if only a few refused, they would have dealt with them one by one.
        Variations for YOURS resemble something, however belay feel No.
    4. +3
      21 May 2024 11: 25
      Capital competition has nothing to do with humanism. It’s not a matter of some kind of built-in “immorality”, it’s just that consumers themselves will drag their money to a successful and active capitalist with a large percentage of deposits, relatively speaking. And a higher percentage means more aggressive and successful activity, more profit already on loans, more deception “de facto” of the operational part of those who bring profit to the bank, and so on.
      If you are like a humane capitalist, then everyone will come running to you for a rainbow in the form of a cheap mortgage, but no one will bring money to you, because you will have less money to spend than your world-eating neighbor. And you will work at a loss.

      Information security as a phenomenon is based on a religious “principle”. I’m not talking about “as in fact and now” - I’m talking about the root of the phenomenon. You play the principle and promote the franchise for those who also play the principle.
      This can be compared to “farm stores”, where they sell you eggs that are three times more expensive, because they are “farm-made” and you will gobble it up and start bursting with health and happiness. The store plays this game, and you play this game - complete ecstasy at the exit and extra. arrived to local kapam.
      In the case of information security, additional profits in crowded places are not due to greater efficiency, but because all the stores on your stupid street are “farm” stores, and you compete with them at the consumer level, and not with the conventional “Pyaterochka”, which the consumer will not go to because that it stinks of fish and there are no price tags. In your farm store, eggs may cost 330 adenok, but they will be “white as snow,” while your neighbor has 310 adenok - but smaller and covered in poop from the farm’s chickens.
      Great aesthetes will come to you, great pragmatists will come to him.
      It’s this kind of bullshit that IMHO all of this is based on - whoa-poo-heh. Irrational nonsense. Eggs have a production cost - but no one in this scheme soars because it is headed by a “principle”. In our society, the majority of the population places little emphasis on principle - and, accordingly, information security in our case will not be relevant for the majority.
  2. +9
    21 May 2024 05: 14
    Creeping Islamization. First, passports for masturbators who cannot put two words together in Russian unless the words are swear words. Now Islamic finance. If this continues, then there will be a St. Basil's Mosque on Red Square, and there is a Sophia Mosque in the former Constantinople, now Istanbul.
  3. +10
    21 May 2024 05: 38
    a significant part of society will a priori perceive this financial legal regime as something aimed at creating preferences for migrants.
    This is exactly how she will perceive it all.
    1. +2
      21 May 2024 05: 45
      And this is not good, because without understanding it, you can abandon very useful developments. This option is still closer to the person than the modern Western banking model.
      1. +4
        21 May 2024 10: 58
        Quote: nikolaevskiy78
        And this is not good, because without understanding it, you can abandon very useful developments. This option is still closer to the person than the modern Western banking model.

        Better is not better, but what this is precisely the creeping change from ABOVE of the constitutional SECLARIC social system in the Russian Federation in the form of another “Overton Window” in Russia in favor of the creeping ISLAMIZATION of Russia as a result of the OCCUPIATION of Russia by an overabundance of Islamist migrants from Central Asia who do not assimilate with the indigenous population of the country.

        I remind that every change in the social system begins with a change in its credit and financial system, for finance is the lifeblood of any economy in a state. (It was with this that Gorbachev began the destruction of the socialist system for the collapse of the USSR)

        And Washington is well aware of this. Exactly Barack Obama, in response to the rantings of Russian President Medvedev about the bright future of liberal Russia, once openly openly and confidently objected to him that the future of Russia is its UNIQUE and COMPLETE ISLAMIZATION!!!
        At the same time, Obama knew what he was saying. This is what we are now observing as one of the “Overton windows”!

        TOTAL. All this Islamization of the banking system in Russia is the implementation of the 3rd stage of the “Chicago Project” of US globalists to destroy our country - Russia - and RUSSIAN CIVILIZATION from within as a result of fragmenting the territory of the Russian Federation along religious and national lines from within into small pro-American puppet states within the state.
        This is exactly what Barack Obama meant about the plans of the US State Department, objecting to Medvedev's naivety.

        Alas. The author clearly misses the political side of this issue about supposedly just an “EXPERIMENT” on top of the introduction of “Islamist” banks” in the Russian Federation.
        1. +5
          21 May 2024 12: 58
          Tatiana, unfortunately, I cannot but agree with you. However, such large-scale, one might say, tectonic shifts in the internal structure of Russia are hardly possible without the participation and support of the supreme power. Let's go to the State Duma website. Not a single bill proposed after Crocus and aimed at controlling and streamlining migration policy WAS ACCEPTED! Everything remains the same. Impunity gives rise to permissiveness. Therefore it will only get worse. Moreover, we are gradually being accustomed to the idea of ​​the inevitability and necessity of the Islamization of the country. Halal products, Islamic banking, “respect” for the traditions of migrants (and those traditions that are prohibited by law in their homeland (the same hijab, for example)), the integrity of diasporas that have turned into criminal-ethnic cartels... Many say that we have a State Duma completely tamed and subordinated to the will of one person (you know). Was it really the State Duma itself that overwhelmingly rejected all the bills aimed at controlling migration? Without permission, you understand? You write about the Chicago Project. And what, in our power structures they don’t know anything about this, don’t understand anything? Or do they consciously not interfere with this process, and even, on the contrary, actively promote it? Question: where is our government? In Moscow, London, Washington? ...or already in Moscowabad?
        2. +1
          21 May 2024 14: 09
          The author doesn't miss it. That's just not what the material is about. While everyone is talking about “Islamism,” those aspects of Islamic banking that need to be introduced into our banking practice are being overlooked.
          You owed a loan against the property. It didn’t work out for you, the bank calculated that your property is worth a discount of 3 million, instead of 7 million. They calculated that you have a debt of X million, and paid Y. You are left with interest owed Z. In that system, this is impossible. But here they would prefer to nod at Islamism and pay German Gref exorbitant prices, while at the same time being indignant at the “damned liberals.” So the damned liberals will explain to you that an Islamic mortgage is just an “option”, and you always have to pay exorbitant prices. Uh, no.
          That is why the phenomenon must be studied and studied carefully. Subsidiary financing is actually very Russian. It’s not for nothing that I provided a link to the website of a Turkish bank with its programs, there is a lot written there.
          1. 0
            21 May 2024 15: 38
            Usually the road to hell extends with good intentions!
            Quote: nikolaevskiy78
            That is why the phenomenon must be studied and studied carefully. Subsidiary financing is actually very Russian. It’s not for nothing that I provided a link to the website of a Turkish bank with its programs, there is a lot written there.

            Gref is a CIA agent who is trying to privatize a former Soviet state bank.
            Need to study the Islamist system? Study it, but without integrating it into practice into the Russian credit and financial system!

            Russians and other peoples will never become their own for Islamists! We will always be “UNCLEAN” for them!
            And with the “Islamic banks” the authorities of the Russian Federation - or better yet, Siluanov and Nabiulina (directly on the payroll of IMF employees) - this is the same tolerant state-sabotage essentially political delusion (STATE SAMAGE) in favor of the interests of Islamic and pro-Western financiers from the liberal - "the market deck of the old personnel in the government of the Russian Federation, as it turned out with the essentially predatory pseudo-assimilation in Russia of 30 million migrants from Central Asia by the Russian government of Medvedev and Mishustin.

            Then it will be too late for the Russians to tear out their last hair, because the Russians will no longer have a head and a state!
            1. 0
              21 May 2024 15: 40
              It turns out that you further want to pay the CIA agent, as you put it, German Gref. He doesn’t mind, his income is only growing.

              Why study the experience of other systems with the help of which bankers’ appetites can be limited. It also says “Islamic”, which means we won’t study it. So what? Well, you probably don’t need to go to such extremes. This is a complex and unique financial model. If you can take something useful from there, you should take it.
              1. 0
                21 May 2024 15: 50
                Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                Well, keep paying the CIA agent, as you put it, German Gref. Why study the experience of other systems with the help of which bankers’ appetites can be limited.

                Bring back the Soviet banking system!
                Remove private banks with their credit and financial legislative system headed by the Central Bank of Russia, created and adopted in the USSR/Russia under the project of Washington and agents of the US intelligence service!

                Why are you cosmetically turning an Islamic mess into one mess?!
                We are not satisfied with either one or the other!
                1. 0
                  21 May 2024 15: 53
                  Return winked Unfortunately, I won't return it. I suspect you do too. Therefore, if we are talking about the fact that we can take something useful from the new financial model, then we should take it. Study and take. The subsidiary financing system is very close to our society. You just have to study it.
                  1. -1
                    21 May 2024 16: 04
                    The “Islamic banks” introduced by the government of the Russian Federation in Russia are no longer a study, but an ISLAMIST financial GUIDE to action implemented in practice (i.e., just a crude hypothesis passed off by its apologists as a theory as a guide to action) for Islamist migrants who have flooded from SA our country.
                    This is in essence and in content - creeping financing of education within Russia (i.e. on its territory) of the SECOND FRONT during the Northern Military District!!!
                    This is Islamist aggression in the form of occupation of non-sovereign Russia!

                    And study the Soviet experience! You don’t even think about studying it!
                    1. 0
                      21 May 2024 16: 20
                      You don’t even think about studying it!

                      I still don't understand who you're talking to winked . If it comes to me, then you are confusing me with someone, I am not German Oskarovich, not Anton Germanovich, not even Elvira Sakhibzadovna. I simply propose to carefully consider this alternative financial model and extract from it what is useful that will help limit banking appetites. You stubbornly don’t want this, as I understand it. Well, add me to the list of migration lobbyists so that you have a complete set. What's there wink
                      1. -1
                        21 May 2024 16: 46
                        I am addressing you as the author of the article.
                        Your article is interesting, but with metaphysical disadvantages..
                        You are arguing from the position of the metaphysical method in philosophy. And he sins in that he relies only on what is under his feet before his eyes.
                        Facts with its help to form a hypothesis and transform it into a theory are not considered by the researcher on the principle of continuous historical development of a social phenomenon.
                        You are not interested in when and why we came to this kind of life. In this case, your cause-and-effect relationship - when using the metaphysical method - will certainly be broken. And new errors will be superimposed on old errors, instead of theoretically finding the initial correct solution, adequate to reality, as a guide to action.

                        For comparison with the metaphysical method, the logical principles of the dialectical-materialist method do not allow such errors.
                        Your dialectical “principle of continuity” is violated from the position of the dialectical-materialist method. Hence, your conclusions are not reliable and cannot be used in the future as an ideal guide to action in practice for the benefit of Russia.
                        Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                        I simply propose to carefully consider this alternative financial model and extract from it what is useful that will help limit banking appetites.
                        Yes, I understand you, that you personally want to do the best. And it will work out for us in Russia as always! Useful water will flow into someone else's mill.
                        That's the problem.
                      2. 0
                        21 May 2024 16: 59
                        Tatyana, re-read your post. Metaphysics, you get it. I’m somehow more talking about the difference in the collateral value, approaches to the source of money, and the lack of accrual of penalties and fines. This is hardly so bad for the Russian economy.
                        But in order for it not to be “as always” (I’m not arguing with you here!), we need to dig into this topic and look at it in order to separate the wheat from the chaff. Tomorrow our bankers will say “the experiment didn’t work, people don’t want it.” Well, yes, people want to pay, roughly speaking, three prices to banks. But this is not so.
                      3. 0
                        21 May 2024 22: 49
                        Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                        Metaphysics, you get it. I’m somehow more talking about the difference in the collateral value, approaches to the source of money, and the lack of accrual of penalties and fines.

                        No, my dear Mikhail! It's you with your metaphysics They didn’t see the forest behind the individual trees, as Lenin used to say.
                        This is your dialectical error due to your application of the methodologically limited metaphysical method, which is called SOPHISTIC...
                        In a particular specific case, you may be right, but when implementing the dialectical principle of “ascent from the SINGLE to the UNIVERSAL through the SPECIAL (Islamist banks) You make a dialectical error with the APPLICATION of metaphysics.

                        I repeat. You do not pay attention to a SINGLE phenomenon - to the INTERNAL essence (CONTENT) of RUSSIAN legislation - the Federal Law "On the Central Bank of Russia" of the Constitution of the Russian Federation. Which you take as a basis in the form in which it is now. How exactly it arose in this form does not interest you metaphysically. You are simply COSMETICALLY superimposing new ones on old mistakes from the position of applying the metaphysical method, which always considers the initial positions as frozen in form in an unchanged form, without delving into their historical essence of the acquisition of a given form according to the historical change of their previous content..
                        The content of the old - SOVIET - Laws on the credit and financial system does not entail the need for the introduction and application of “ISLAMIST BANKS” into the credit and financial system!
                        This FEATURE - Islamist banks - is precisely aimed at the ISLAMIZATION of Russia - the formation of Islamic states in the Russian state. Therefore, their use began with the Muslim republics.

                        Russia's two wars, since 1995, with Dudayev's Ichkeria are not enough for you?
                        So such a war will definitely happen again - only in 4 Muslim republics at once, in which “Islamic banks” will begin to operate. In practice they will only serve Muslims!!! And especially Muslim migrants from Central and Central Asia. for a further influx of migrants and parasitism on Russians.
                        How Gref will get out of this with his Sberbank is the question! He will simply abandon Russia, Russians and Russians - and flee to the West beyond the cordon.
                        Siluanov and Nabiulina will also escape!
                        With Russia and the Russians - with the Russian civilization - Washington will thus end.
                        This is the picture of the future of Russia that Mishustin signed.
                      4. 0
                        21 May 2024 23: 39
                        I am trying (sincerely) to understand your logic of presentation and (I repent, for I am a sinner) I do not understand. And I find that you are still involved in metaphysics. In the sense that you are using precisely the metaphysical method of justification - relying on the absolutization of the particular, concrete and isolated separately.
                        And this is called “everything we do is done against people and for migration.” There is no doubt that much that is done MAY or MAY NOT be used for these unwholesome purposes.

                        You are offered a description of a phenomenon that, under certain conditions, can increase migration, and under other conditions can increase people's well-being. The phenomenon is described and its generic characteristics and specific differences from the traditional banking system are highlighted. Where there is a contradiction to the dialectical method, I (for, apparently, I am still a sinner) do not understand.

                        The question also arises, what dialectical method do you have in your description? It seems that you are referring to V.I. Lenin. But the principle “from the individual to the universal” is, alas, our common friend Hegel (after all, he is also a friend to all of us, although for Marxists he is a former one). But our other friends (they are our friends after all) Marx, Engels and comrade Lenin criticized their former comrade and brother George Hegel. For from the general comes analysis through the identification of contradictions, and only then does the reverse process (that is, synthesis) begin to the general. But not something universal like the Absolute Idea.

                        By the way, the analysis in the material proceeds precisely through contradictions, which on the whole corresponds precisely to Marx’s dialectics, and not to brother George (in the sense of Georg, a German after all).

                        Well something like that.
                      5. +1
                        22 May 2024 01: 36
                        ZAGOVOR
                        If you count the numbers in the Russian alphabet of letters from the phrase “Islamic banking”, you can use simple mathematical operations to obtain the number of the beast and personally see that it is better to take pills than not to take them. tongue

                        Seriously though, I’m also frozen by this noodles like “halal stores”, “Ashgabat coffee shops” and all this foreign splendor. But we cannot influence this in any way - historically we are not particularly asked about smaller things, such as what the HOA will plant in the flowerbed in front of the house.
                        Well, if they don’t ask, why worry?) Let everything go as it goes and come where it comes am
                      6. 0
                        22 May 2024 01: 44
                        Well, oriental catering has always been in trend. Simply because it was more satisfying than our catering of this kind. Look at Gilyarovsky, all the delicious grub was in the taverns. And so that you can have a snack on the go, Turkish themes turned out to be in great demand here. The States responded with Mac and hotdogs. No one else seemed to compete with Doners and others on a scale. By the way, everything here is objective. Just like kebab, which has already become Russian. With halal it is temporary. Later the topic will be reduced to intelligible dimensions.
                      7. -1
                        22 May 2024 02: 54
                        Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                        You are offered a description of a phenomenon that, under certain conditions, can increase migration, and under other conditions can increase people's well-being.
                        The dialectical-materialist method provides for a historical principle in the development of the theory of knowledge. Hegel does not have it. Instead of a historical principle, in his dialectics there is a so-called Hegel's absolute idea, and not matter, for which movement is an attribute (an integral property of matter)..Society as a type of living matter is continuously changing in its internal content, which determines its form of organization of the social phenomenon.
                        Metaphysics takes into account only FORM and does not take into account the internal connections of a phenomenon. Formal logic is included in both the metaphysical method and the dialectical-materialist method. At the same time, following the rules of formal logic, it is possible, like in mathematics, to make precise logical calculations. At the same time, in formal logic concepts are operated as something frozen in form. This circumstance of the immutability of the content of a particular phenomenon over time is put into the metaphysical method - the metaphysical principle of cause-and-effect relationships.
                        In the dialectical-materialist method, the principle of cause-and-effect relationships is called the principle of determinism to distinguish it from the metaphysical method. The principle of determinism implies that the form changes its content over time, and if you want to understand the essence of the phenomenon more fully for adequate conclusions, you need to understand - according to the dialectical principle of historical continuity of the Marxian method -
                        what exactly as a historical cause led to the formation of this form as a historical consequence of the emergence of this social phenomenon. Those. how historically (over time) the old form in content changed into a new one in content.
                        And in your research you stopped halfway to obtaining correct analytical conclusions and did not notice it.
                        Your philosophical metaphysical synthesis is limited by the metaphysical method, is internally logically contradictory from the position of historical dialogue and therefore does not inspire confidence and cannot be recommended as a guide to action. For when testing your hypothesis-proposal for compliance with its historical-dialectical-materialistic method, side social risks are revealed, which ultimately aggravate the political situation in the country to the point of a social explosion.

                        In business, too, if at least one of the risk indicators reaches 50%, then such business projects are not accepted for implementation, otherwise you will go bankrupt.
                        In Russia, your project ultimately works 90% for Muslims and foreign Islamist migrants, for Russophobic discrimination against Russians and other indigenous residents of Russia, for the wholesale Islamization of Russia with the extermination of Russians who disagree with Islamization.
                        Obama knew perfectly well what he was saying to Medvedev.
                      8. 0
                        22 May 2024 04: 11
                        Tatyana, with all due respect. It's because of this
                        For when testing your hypothesis-proposal for compliance with its historical-dialectical-materialistic method, side social risks are revealed, which ultimately aggravate the political situation in the country to the point of a social explosion.

                        Modern Marxists (or rather neo-Marxists) are not taken seriously by the management system. Alas. Not at all because of the cannibalistic nature. Even there there are still people who will think about the meaning of what was said and wrap up the project with such wording.
                        And besides, where did you see the lack of historicism in my material? Well, these are minor things. Maybe you really need to re-tighten the base. I sometimes review the basics, a lot is forgotten. This is fine. You just have such a hellish mixture that I don’t know what to say. The strangest thing is that your methodological claims do not apply to this particular article, even if you try to correct them according to the base.


                        PS
                        In business, too, if at least one of the risk indicators reaches 50%, then such business projects are not accepted for implementation, otherwise you will go bankrupt.

                        It is not.
                      9. -1
                        22 May 2024 11: 58
                        Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                        PS
                        In business, too, if at least one of the risk indicators reaches 50%, then such business projects are not accepted for implementation, otherwise you will go bankrupt.
                        It is not.

                        My second higher education in the specialty “manager of financial, economic and administrative divisions” shows that this provision of the theory of calculating business risks that we were taught works 100% in practice and has really led to the ruin of companies.
                        They are accepted greedily by those entrepreneurs who, indeed, subsequently inevitably go bankrupt when implementing their own business project with such risks. I felt sorry for looking at them. They were either simply ignorant in this matter or trusted active manipulators who simply robbed and ruined them.

                        I would like to look at a business project proposed by someone to the government of the Russian Federation on the introduction of “ISLAMIC BANKS” in Russia, if there really is one, and what business risks are included in it and in what amounts, if at all in this project there is a business calculation section - there are risks and in the interests of which social groups and states it was carried out..
                      10. 0
                        22 May 2024 12: 24
                        Tatyana, there is no business project there. There is 417-FZ, an analytical note and an explanatory note are attached to it. Then there is the conclusion of the relevant committee of the State Law. Well, depending on who contributed, he writes analytical and explanatory notes. Then the conclusion of the trade union committee of the Federation Council. And a couple more from the AP and maybe from the economic adviser.
                        What you call a business plan is usually not there. If a note needs conclusions with numbers, they can request a specialized institute, but in the end the usual tables will not be there. “Risk coefficients” too, this is still not a stencil of the bank’s analytical department.
                      11. -1
                        22 May 2024 12: 58
                        Any social project in the form of a Law must have a calculation of government business risks for adoption, because one way or another it concerns changes in the country’s economy and ends with an appeal to the credit and financial system in the country. This is also the issue of raising the retirement age. And increasing salaries for public sector employees. And increasing the minimum wage. And changes in the credit and financial system.
                        They can be considered as business projects of the government. Namely, how many people will not live to see retirement, and from which professional groups and from which regions of Russia.
                        If the people found out the secret calculations of such an anti-Russian business project of the Russian government and who exactly provided it with this project for execution, then it would finally lose the people’s last trust in such a bourgeois government of the Russian Federation.
                        All this is probably classified as “secret” or “for internal use only.”
                      12. The comment was deleted.
                      13. -1
                        22 May 2024 12: 33
                        Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                        And besides, where did you see the lack of historicism in my material?
                        Your historical principle of cause and effect is metaphysical. It cannot be compared with the dialytic historical principle of cause and effect - the principle of determinism, which considers not only external contradictions between external phenomena in the form of various frozen forms of development of the phenomenon, which are to blame on the surface, but also internal contradictions in the development of the form itself each phenomenon.
                        And you are trying to IMPROVE the existing pro-Western credit and financial liberal system in the form of a frozen pro-Western colonial form after the previous change during the collapse of the USSR, which led to the liquidation of the socialist system and the dissolution of the USSR.
                        What do you see as the dialectical historical principle of the application of determinism? You don’t have it and don’t expect it.
                        See my comment in detail
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        Today (22.05.2024), 02:54
                        Metaphysics takes into account only FORM and does not take into account the internal connections of a phenomenon. Formal logic is included in both the metaphysical method and the dialectical-materialist method. At the same time, following the rules of formal logic, it is possible, like in mathematics, to make precise logical calculations. At the same time, in formal logic concepts are operated as something frozen in form. This circumstance of the immutability of the content of a particular phenomenon over time is put into the metaphysical method - the metaphysical principle of cause-and-effect relationships...
                      14. 0
                        22 May 2024 12: 46
                        Tatyana, I wrote to you that you got into the wilds. Since I consider your position to be that of a sincere and caring person, I treat it with respect accordingly love , as well as concerns about Islamization, so I did not strongly criticize your base based on the method. And it should be! No.
                        By God, this article is almost a methodological example, although this was not what it was intended to be. Well, just thesis-antithesis-synthesis. I tell you from the bottom of my heart, review the database, update it, we taught it a long time ago and you just need to update it periodically. You yourself have a mixture of Hegel and Marxian dialectics, which, with an admixture of metaphysics, gives a natural eclecticism. Try self-criticism at this moment, you will see everything for yourself. But, if you insist, then there will be a dispute! laughing
                      15. -1
                        22 May 2024 13: 27
                        Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                        You yourself have a mixture of Hegel and Marxian dialectics, which, with an admixture of metaphysics, gives a natural eclecticism. Try self-criticism at this moment, you will see everything for yourself. But, if you insist, then there will be a dispute!

                        I already wrote to you what is the difference between Hegel’s dialectics and Marx’s dialectics. Hegel's absolute idea as a kind of pseudo-theological historical principle was replaced by Marx with the historical materialism of the development of both external and internal connections in nature and society.
                        Hegel's formal logic is purified from Hegel's Absolute Idea. Metaphysics does not consider the internal connections of a phenomenon in the form of its specific form; it considers only the external connections between phenomena, each of which is considered in the form of a constant form.
                        One has only to delve into the consideration of the cause-and-effect relationships of the development of the most seemingly invariably constant form of a natural and social phenomenon - and you will definitely make a new scientific discovery.
                        That is why the historical dialectical-materialist method is scientifically more advanced and more productive as an algorithm of thinking than the metaphysical method, which you yourself personally adhere to in your article one way or another.
                      16. 0
                        22 May 2024 13: 31
                        Well, there will be a debate!
                        But tomorrow, today I won’t be able to)
                      17. 0
                        22 May 2024 14: 50
                        Nikolaevski78 without words, this is the point. :)))))))))
          2. 0
            Today, 01: 16
            Quote: nikolaevskiy78
            Субсидиарное финансирование это очень по-русски на самом деле..

            М.б. стоит вспомнить, как были образованы первые мануфактуры в Р.И. - с помощью старообрядческих общин, которые назначали управляющих ? Это стало вырождаться только после того, как государевым указом было запрещено передавать активы в собственность общины, и пришлось оставлять их "наследникам". Так появились династии Солдатенковых, Морозовых, Рябушинских ..ЕМНИП.
            1. 0
              Today, 05: 47
              Старый испытанный артельный способ производства. Артели, кстати, успешно работали до ВОВ, после нее, пока Никита не разогнал. Причем по многим промтоварам давали и объем и качество. Они ведь рассматривались долгое время как форма общественной собственности на средства пр-ва.
              1. 0
                Today, 12: 25
                Quote: nikolaevskiy78
                Старый испытанный артельный способ производства.Они ведь рассматривались долгое время как форма общественной собственности на средства пр-ва.

                Я предлагал посмотреть на этот опыт с точки зрения культуры финансирования. Развилось это в РИ в гораздо бОльшее чем артели. Вот здесь об этом немного:
                https://rpsctyva.ru/staroobryadcheskoe-predprinimatelstvo-v-rossii/
                Дело в том, что само название "исламский банкинг" будет удобным жупелом для его противников, и тогда мы можем получить раскол финансовой системы внутри страны по религиозному признаку. Нужно отобрать этот козырь у наших современных гобсеков.
                1. +1
                  Today, 14: 44
                  Thanks, I read hi
                  Насчет жупела, думаю, что вы правы. В законе этого термина нет, но он повально в СМИ и экспертизе медийной. Плюс банки сами так называют программы. Я полагаю, что так за несколько лет откачают в банковскую систему часть мигрантских денег на ипотеку, а потом программы тихо свернут. Сам по себе исламский банкинг в его "чистом виде" обычным банкам не очень выгоден. Да и не существует в мире такое совмещение в одном банковском лице. Пока все похоже на то, что мигрантам просто хотят раздать больше ипотеки.
  4. +6
    21 May 2024 06: 19
    It turns out that the Sberbank participating in this will lend money to the Islamists without interest, and take seven skins from us? how similar it is to the Russophobe Gref
  5. +7
    21 May 2024 06: 51
    I remember someone who likes to talk about Lenin’s mines. However, now not only republics, but any region has its own government and, under appropriate conditions, can secede.
    And by the way about migrants. Recently a story was told on the Internet. A family of migrants moved to Russia six years ago. Recently it turned out that not all of their documents were completed correctly, an error by officials, but migrants began to be expelled from Russia. But this family is purely Russian.
    1. +2
      21 May 2024 12: 08
      but migrants began to be expelled from Russia. Only this family is purely Russian.
      Almost a joke. Russian migration official: Russians?! Roll back to your place in Tajikistan... smile
  6. +6
    21 May 2024 06: 56
    Creeping Islamization. We have many religions, but for some reason Islam has so many preferences.
    And it seems that we have a secular country and the church should be separated from the state. But why are even laws made to ensure the effective functioning of one religion?
    1. +2
      21 May 2024 10: 18
      Quote: Stas157
      Creeping Islamization. We have many religions, but for some reason Islam has so many preferences.

      There was a joke on this topic on the internet:
      Representative of the credit and banking sector of the Moscow Patriarchate Archpriest Alexander Kaganovich told how Orthodox banking will differ from ordinary banking. As with the Muslim model, it will be based on religious commandments. If in Muslim banking an institution is prohibited from giving clients money at interest, then in Orthodox banking clients are prohibited from grumbling and complaining about the quality of services.



      “We propose to make certain changes to the legislation for Orthodox banking, which will allow us to change the approach to the provision of services in accordance with the scriptures. For example, complaints about changes in the terms of the contract or features of the service will be considered grumbling, which is, as we know, a sin. Adversity in our life are tests sent by God, and we must withstand them with honor. This approach will allow us to significantly save on customer support and optimize internal processes,” Kaganovich explained.
  7. +6
    21 May 2024 07: 12
    Inflation will not allow it to work completely. We need a reinforced concrete ruble.
    As it was in the USSR. Today's guys won't even believe that back then they took out loans from the bank without interest.
    And without any Islam. laughing
    1. +1
      21 May 2024 07: 31
      Quote: Arzt
      We need a reinforced concrete ruble.
      A reinforced concrete ruble is definitely not needed, let alone a wallet - there won’t be enough for a wheelbarrow, you’ll have to carry the cash in a dump truck.
      Quote: Arzt
      As it was in the USSR.
      In the USSR during the NEP years there was a golden chervonets, as under the Tsar. And after the NEP, a wooden ruble.
      Quote: Arzt
      And without any Islam.
      good Yes
      1. +1
        21 May 2024 08: 42
        A reinforced concrete ruble is definitely not needed, let alone a wallet - there won’t be enough for a wheelbarrow, you’ll have to carry the cash in a dump truck.

        I appreciated your humor, but I meant stability, like a currency, of course. good

        In the USSR during the NEP years there was a golden chervonets, as under the Tsar. And after the NEP, a wooden ruble.
        Quote: Arzt
        And without any Islam.

        Did they also take out bank loans without interest, as under Brezhnev? wink
    2. 0
      21 May 2024 10: 27
      Quote: Arzt
      Today's guys won't even believe that back then they took out loans from the bank without interest.

      A funny 2%, but there was a percentage.
  8. +5
    21 May 2024 07: 14
    Nobody sees separatism in this?
  9. +5
    21 May 2024 08: 04
    wink This guy comes to an Islamic bank. Asks for money 100500 million.
    They listened to him and said: go further along the corridor, there is a cash register, get your money, I’ll call you now.
    Dude: what about the contract, the documents. You didn't even look at my passport!
    But why?
    Well, what if I don’t return the money?
    Then you will be ashamed.
    I'm ashamed?! And in front of whom?
    Before the Almighty.
    And when will I be ashamed in front of him?
    When you appear.
    When will I appear before him?
    Well, if you don’t give it back, you’ll immediately appear...


    But seriously, the current Western, purely usurious banking system has long exhausted itself and attempts to do something in this area have been made for a long time, everywhere and constantly.
    All these preferential auto lending systems, preferential mortgages, preferential loans for production, and ordinary leasing are precisely attempts to correct the inherent defects of such a system.
  10. +10
    21 May 2024 08: 39
    You should not react negatively to the word “Islamic banking”.
    It smacks of the split of the country...and the Islamization of the population. They did this before. They told the conquered peoples, do you want to not pay taxes at all? Accept Islam.
    1. +6
      21 May 2024 09: 34
      It doesn't smell, but it just stinks, like a well-decomposed corpse.
      1. +2
        21 May 2024 12: 04
        hi
        it really stinks
        It’s rude..,”but that’s what they say” (c)
  11. +5
    21 May 2024 08: 44
    This means that again some will get an advantage, while others will continue to die out. And someone says it’s an accident, not according to plan, they themselves are stupid... not smart people. Yes of course.
  12. +3
    21 May 2024 09: 06
    I did not find the most important thing in the article - how does Islamic banking make a profit? Can someone explain it to me?
    As for the collateral: yes, it is accounted for at par, but do you think that it (the property), and even used property, can be sold at par during the loan process? An example is a car loan, a loan to buy a car. When leaving the showroom, the car immediately loses 20% of its value, correct me if I’m wrong. And how will we calculate the amount of the deposit and, most importantly, how will we implement it so that the bank does not fail?
    It’s the same with an apartment, that is, a mortgage. What are the standard conditions for Islamic banking?
  13. +6
    21 May 2024 09: 24
    Good morning.
    A few words about myself. Graduated from YaVVFU. He served for a while, then quit.
    I have been working as a loan officer in different banks for a little over 20 years. For the last 8 years I have been the head of the credit department in a bank from an Islamic foreign country. That's it, actually. What I mean is that I have the right and knowledge to discuss the stated topic.
    And now about Islamic banking. This is a fake, as they say in Russian villages.
    Once upon a time, it really was without %%, more or less close to the principles that my namesake talks about in the article. Further, when the banks of the Islamic world became familiar with the Western banking system, they completely switched to it, because it is significantly more profitable and less risky.
    It is important to understand that within the framework of the modern monetary system there cannot be any interest-free loans, because there is inflation and money always has a price.

    What is now called an Islamic mortgage is essentially a profanation. This is a complete analogue of what developers in the Russian Federation have been doing over the past few years, selling us mortgages at 0.01%.
    They simply included the lost %% in the price of the purchased property.
    Those. an apartment for a conventional million was sold to you for 1.2 million, taking into account 20% per annum.

    Currently, for a bank, obtaining a fatwa (approval of a product by an Islamic “scholar” by placing a “seal” on the product) costs a couple of hundred thousand bucks. You call the scientist, tell the terms of the product and offer a price for printing. If this scientist does not agree, call the next one and so on until you get the result. After which you can sell “Islamic banking” to illiterate but religious suckers.
    Those. in essence, this is a marketing tool to additionally attract the untapped religious Islamic contingent.
    1. 0
      21 May 2024 10: 12
      Dear Michael!
      At least you, as a specialist, can briefly explain what Islamic banking is and how it differs from conventional banking? Restrictions for ideological reasons when lending to various enterprises and areas of activity are clear, you described them. What else is there that makes the bank profit? From what I see in the press there are only myths.
      1. +2
        21 May 2024 10: 26
        According to the classics, the bank enters the project as a co-founder and shares future profits from the project.
        The simplest example. You are planning to build a house. You are a developer, I am a bank.
        The construction of a house costs 200 million. You will sell the apartments in it for 300.
        I give you 100 million, you invest your 100 million. At the end of the project, you have a profit of 50 and I have 50. But if you don’t build this house for some reason, I will simply lose it. As, in fact, are you. Those. You and I shared the risks and future profits.
        1. +1
          21 May 2024 10: 31
          Ugums. In this case, the bank acts as a co-investor and shares risks, that is, in fact it turns into an investment fund. But in this case, the bank must have its own team of managers who can assess the current situation and, in general, it would be necessary to have the right to intervene in operational activities, that is, the bank needs to get involved in those areas that are unusual for its type of activity.
          1. 0
            21 May 2024 10: 40
            Quote: Not the fighter
            the bank must have its own management team who can assess the current situation

            Hehe. This is a mandatory procedure in any model, be it Western, Islamic, or Chinese. Banks are regulated to white mice. Regulation BR 590-P directly obliges us to get involved and control everything.
            In fact, 80% of my work as a lender is analysis and monitoring of the financial condition and current activities of debtors (calculating the risks of non-repayment of loans issued).
            And in general, this is correct, because... Most banks still risk not their own money, but the money of depositors. And they, of course, can invest this money in dubious projects, but only by creating reserves for them and reducing the capital on them.
        2. +3
          21 May 2024 11: 09
          Everything is fine on the surface, but we have a lot of fish swimming in troubled waters, and through intermediaries this topic can be thoroughly milked “in theory.”
          For example, I'm building a house and my buddies are my contractors. We will share 100 lyams of the bank among ourselves through various gray schemes, and they will return my 100 lyams to me later, to the accounts of my other company.
          Formally, yes, I will be at a loss and tearing my hair out, just like the bank. In fact, the bank will suffer.

          Of course, such a bank will strive to work with the public in a more precise and sensitive manner, but in fairness, we really have a lot of murky schemes and murky companies, or all these connections between murky and not murky. In countries where all this back-and-forth can cause someone to chop off their hand or shoot them, this scheme will certainly work better, but in our country everything is extremely soft on financial crimes..
      2. 0
        21 May 2024 10: 53
        Here, I dug a little:

        Sheikh Mohammed Taqi Usmani, a member of AAOIFI, a Bahrain-based regulatory institute that sets standards for global Islamic banking, said that 85% of sukuk (a type of Islamic bond) were in fact non-Islamic. According to another veteran of Islamic economics, Muhammad Akram Khan, Islamic banking preached "doing business without interest" but in reality is "a set of techniques and techniques designed to hide interest."
        Mahmoud Amin El-Gamal, professor of economics at Rice University (USA), described modern Islamic finance as “Sharia arbitration” - i.e. what is prohibited in traditional finance becomes permissible if it is considered “Shariah compliant” despite having a similar, if not identical, economic substance.
        Suleiman Hamdan Albalawi concluded that Islamic banks “have moved away from using profit and loss sharing as the core principle of Islamic banking.”
        Islamic economist Muhammad Akram Khan also pointed out that Islamic banking has evolved towards convergence with traditional banking and "imitates traditional banks in the process of creating products" instead of establishing "a different type of banking that would be consistent with the principles of fairness, equal distribution of income and ethical Islamic investment schemes."


        In short, there is no Islamic banking in nature. Just as there is no “deep” cleansing soap, “rejuvenating” water, and not yet 90% of dentists prefer Blend-a-med...
      3. 0
        21 May 2024 12: 52
        Quote: Not the fighter
        What else is there that makes the bank profit?
        Through participation in the credited enterprise. The bank does not receive a percentage, but a part of the profit.
    2. 0
      21 May 2024 11: 15
      With the increase in the price of an apartment at a low interest rate, it is understandable. So I came to take a million without interest. Will they oblige you to pay, say, one hundred million, of which 100 are incomprehensible services and insurance? Is there such a thing there or not?
      I see that they can make money by investing globally, but individuals are not money - it’s politics and the politics are very suspicious, although suspicious is putting it mildly.
      1. 0
        21 May 2024 15: 48
        There's nothing suspicious there. You understand that you will pay for the loan + interest rate, although it is not considered interest. But there the principle of accounting for the value of property is different. And the principle of the source of funding is different. A complex topic, as I see it.
        Just in case, I also provided a link to the policies of a large Turkish bank. You can watch and read there. It is possible that I did not convey everything I wanted to convey. Well, for this purpose I gave a link to a good source. It's right there with example programs.
  14. 0
    21 May 2024 09: 55
    Even in Turkey, which so values ​​a “return to Ottoman roots,” many would prefer to take out an overdraft from a regular bank to finance foreign trade transactions at a fairly low interest rate than to go to the complex SFD partner system

    As far as I know, Islamic finance simply limits some areas of commercial activity. The article talks about this vaguely, how......regulation goes down to the most specific actions......Translated into human language, this means that money received from prostitution, the sale of human organs for transplantation, money from the sale of prohibited drugs will not be accepted in an Islamic bank. And if you come to an Islamic bank to ask for money to build a brothel, a casino, a pig-breeding complex or the production of certain medicines, they will not give you money
  15. +4
    21 May 2024 10: 19
    “Islamic banking” will be another tool for introducing and strengthening a civilization hostile to us in Russia. negative
  16. +1
    21 May 2024 11: 02
    I read about this matter not long ago. However, I didn’t understand what the benefits of introducing such a system from a capitalist point of view within the framework of established banking relations would be. For example, you are a banker, and your competitors are other banks and other bankers. Their % there are not taboos and they will stupidly have more profit, because most of their clients are “infidels” who are already accustomed to such schemes and do not see (almost) anything bad in them. But you won’t have these percentages, despite the fact that you, in general, issue loans for the same services. That is, you lose your natural competitive advantage; one might say, you fencing with one left hand. And regarding deposits - sketch. I understand that these models are very, very conditionally suitable for countries with high inflation. A large percentage of loans and a large percentage of deposits in such countries is partly a necessity, because otherwise the money will burn before the end of the deposit and will lie in “-”.

    To be effective, information security must rely on the diaspora, in which principle takes precedence over circumstances. This diaspora must be large enough and financially active so that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages of this type of business compared to classical banking.
  17. 0
    22 May 2024 13: 13
    "Islamic banking" has been operating in Russia for a long time. It's called a "preferential mortgage". There are no exact statistics (and who will give them?), but I get the impression that, if not the majority, then a disproportionately high proportion of those who receive this “benefit” are “imported citizens,” mainly from Tajikistan and Azerbaijan.

    Information comes even from Mariupol: large-scale construction is underway to replace destroyed houses, almost only migrants work on construction sites, then the houses they built are not occupied by Mariupol residents who have lost their homes, but the apartments are sold on a mortgage (most likely, also at a preferential rate) to the same migrants.

    In fact, at the expense of the Russian budget, Mariupol is populated by Tajiks.
  18. +1
    22 May 2024 15: 09
    The article is good, but the main contingent here misunderstands the essence. Even creditors also spoke out, this type of banking provides services to everyone, they don’t discriminate by religion, but all Muslims go there, this type of banking is more humane. ,, even synthesized according to metaphysics, when you can simply read the principles of operation of such a bank. The main thing is to draw up an agreement and negotiate the full amount and period. In such a bank, it’s not like they just put a consumer loan on the card and take interest every X number. the contract amount does not increase even if it is overdue, the bank cannot add penalties. The rules by which Islamic banking operates: a general ban on loan interest;
    prohibition on speculation - use of any circumstances, someone's difficulties in one's own interests, prohibition on gambling....
  19. 0
    1 June 2024 14: 34
    In relation to the indigenous population, this is discrimination and a shame for the authorities; in general, with such a migration policy, our country faces the fate of Byzantium.
  20. 0
    7 June 2024 01: 53
    At this time, you shouldn’t get involved in this, the topic is too slippery. And everything there at the moment is tied to the petrodollar. Unless, of course, you need another rake. Please. But it’s better somehow without them.