Military Review

Russia is ready to buy the Belarusian defense industry in the bud

72
Russia is ready to buy the Belarusian defense industry in the budThe integration of the defense-industrial complexes (DIC) of Russia and Belarus will most likely follow the Moscow scenario.

The Belarusian side is grateful to Russia for the fact that Belarusian enterprises received equal access to the federal state defense order. This was recently announced by the Chairman of the State Military-Industrial Committee of Belarus Sergei Gurulev.

In this regard, it is worth noting that 24 December, the Russian government issued a decree according to which in Russia, when placing an order for state needs, including within the framework of the state defense order, the goods, materials and components, whose country of origin is Belarus, apply a mode similar to set for goods, materials and components made in Russia.

However, according to the chairman of the Gosvoenprom, “the signing by the Russian Prime Minister of this decree does not say that we were taken there and accepted ...”. The only point is that Belarusian enterprises now have the right to “fight for this market” on a par with Russian ones.

The result of the struggle is not at all predetermined, although, taking into account the intellectual potential of the Belarusian defense industry, it can be said that it has good chances.

Recall that soon the removal of the remaining restrictions for Belarusian defense enterprises in access to Russian public procurement (including within the framework of the state defense order) was announced by Alexander Lukashenko in September last year, immediately after meeting with Vladimir Putin in Sochi. According to the President of Belarus, an agreement was reached between the leaders of the two countries that all Belarusian enterprises on equal terms with Russian companies would be able to participate in tenders for the procurement of products for the needs of the state defense order of the Russian Federation.

According to a number of experts, such equality will benefit first of all Belarusian factories producing military and dual-use products.

The fact is that after the collapse of the USSR, the defense sector of Belarus found itself in a difficult situation, because it specialized mainly in the production of components, and manufacturing using them the final defense products and weapons remained in Russia.

Therefore, the permanent interest of the Belarusian leadership in cooperation with Russia in the military-industrial sector is by no means accidental. Back in 1994, an intergovernmental agreement was signed on the preservation of ties between the defense industry of the two states, which has been in force until now.

And now the main buyers of the products of Belarusian enterprises under the jurisdiction of the Gosvoyenprom are the Russian defense industry. According to Mikhail Barabanov, scientific editor of the Arms Export magazine, as of 2010, the partners of the Belarusian defense industry were more than 400 Russian enterprises.

According to a number of sources, today they have scientific, technical and industrial cooperation with almost all research institutes, design bureaus and defense industry enterprises of Belarus for almost 1600 items of military-technical products. These products are used in the manufacture of Russian tanks, Infantry fighting vehicles and airborne combat vehicles, armored repair and recovery vehicles, multiple launch rocket systems and shells for them, self-propelled artillery installations, anti-tank and anti-aircraft systems, small arms weapons, as well as melee weapons.

The basis of supplies of Belarusian military products to Russia are navigation instruments, flight systems, space and satellite communications, antenna devices, radio stations, onboard and stationary computing systems, automation systems and software, as well as optical-mechanical, control and assembly equipment for the manufacture superlarge integrated circuits.

Belarus produces a number of samples of special and dual-purpose equipment, which have no analogues at all. First of all, this refers to heavy multi-axle chassis designed for mounting various weapon systems. In particular, mobile soil systems such as "Yars" and "Topol-M".

Traditionally, Belarusian software products, as well as automated weapons and troops management systems, are highly appreciated by specialists. In recent years, the development of unmanned aerial vehicles has been developing at a fairly high rate.

Therefore, the desire of the political leadership of Russia to make the most of the potential of the Belarusian defense industrial complex as part of the program to re-equip its armed forces looks quite understandable.

Meanwhile, many Belarusian experts fear that closer cooperation carries a threat to defense enterprises of Belarus, which may be absorbed by Russian business. Such intentions, in fact, are not concealed in Russia. It would be convenient for Moscow to buy a neighbor's defense line on the vine in order to control production at all levels and to protect itself from political risks in the event of problems between the two countries.

Moreover, experts note clear signs that equal access to the Russian state defense order was granted to Belarusian enterprises in exchange for their accelerated integration into the Russian military-industrial complex.

As the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Dmitry Rogozin (he oversees the defense order, defense industry, nuclear and space industry, as well as military-technical cooperation), the integration and industrial cooperation issues in this area are the subject of constant attention of the top political leadership of Belarus and Russia.

The Russian Deputy Prime Minister pays special attention to the fact that an agreement has been reached on the need for horizontal and vertical cooperation between defense enterprises of the two countries. At the same time, Dmitry Rogozin does not hide exactly which factories are particularly interesting for Russia. They are Integral, Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant and MAZ.

True, Rogozin stipulates that “industrial cooperation is not necessarily related to the acquisition of assets and the repurchase of shares. We have the experience of the last years of the closest interaction, in particular, it concerns the enterprises of mechanical engineering and the electronic component base ”.

Now it is important for the leadership of Belarus and Russia to create a favorable climate so that “the enterprises themselves find the most comfortable form of connection, the goal of which is to achieve an outstanding scientific, technical and industrial result,” Rogozin reassuringly declares.

Nevertheless, among Belarusian analysts the opinion prevails that given the inequality of the Russian and Belarusian economic potentials, as well as the strongest military-political dependence of Minsk on Moscow, the equal integration of defense complexes is hardly real.
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  1. older
    older 12 February 2013 11: 17
    +22
    It’s probably too tough .. Buy it on an eternity .. But to create a Russian-Belarusian joint venture is quite right ... And we will help the Belarusians and control will be on our part
    1. vadimus
      vadimus 12 February 2013 11: 28
      +15
      We are one people and I think we can do a lot together. I don’t know how to buy, but I need to cooperate closely.
      1. domokl
        domokl 12 February 2013 14: 07
        +2
        Quote: vadimus
        We are one people and I think we can do a lot together. I don’t know how to buy, but I need to cooperate closely.
        We are one people, and the states are still different. We already have cooperation .. Now we need to consolidate it economically .. So that we and the Belarusians know this is OUR enterprise and it will produce products for US ...
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 February 2013 11: 34
      +9
      Quote: older
      But to create a Russian-Belarusian joint venture is quite correct.

      I don’t know about the joint venture, but Belarusian producers can increase competition for one thing, they can lower prices inside Russia so that our prices do not bend. Pluses are definitely
      1. Tsoi is alive
        Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 11: 42
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Belarusian producers can lower prices inside Russia so that our prices do not bend much.

        First, let everyone be put on an equal footing if we sell them oil and gas. how can their price be lower? request
        1. andrejwz
          andrejwz 12 February 2013 12: 02
          +3
          Quote: Choi is alive
          First, let everyone be put on an equal footing if we sell them oil and gas. how can their price be lower?

          Probably pricing is more reasonable.
          Yesterday's case with the leadership of the Cancer Institute for Procurement costly equipment. If the seller is able to pay 10% of the purchase price, what is the profit included in the expected result
          1. Tsoi is alive
            Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 13: 05
            -8
            Quote: andrejwz
            If the seller is able to pay 10% of the purchase price, what is the profit included in the expected result

            If he were able, then he would pay, not go to the police.
            most likely the walrus was less than a rollback.
            This is the first, second. How much can you date Lukashenko’s chair?
            Now he also wants the bowels of Russia, sold .....
            As soon as the subsidies end, there will be a riot and presentation of Russian bills for supporting the radiant trepach.
            1. Botanologist
              Botanologist 12 February 2013 13: 50
              +5
              how much can you date Lukashenko’s chair

              So what to do? Waiting for an analogue of Yushchenko or Saakashvili to come to power in Belarus? Do you think it will be cheaper?

              As soon as the subsidies are over, there will be a riot and the presentation of bills to Russia for supporting the radiant trepach

              Will not. We learned how to deal with the orange revolutions. Yes, and donations will not end. Belarus is too important for us.
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 12 February 2013 13: 16
          +7
          Quote: Choi is alive
          gas. how can their price be lower?

          And where does the gas come from, their standard of living is lower so far, and the prices are regulated by the state in many respects. These are grabbers and mercenaries.
          1. Tsoi is alive
            Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 13: 25
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Yes, and where does the gas, they have a lower standard of living, and prices are regulated by the state in many ways.

            Would I like to look at this adjustment if gas would be sold at a price like Ukraine? request
            The adjustment would break! wink
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            This is our grabbers and grabbers.

            "And who does not drink? No, I ask you to name it! .. Enough, you spat in my soul." wink


            1. V. Salama
              V. Salama 12 February 2013 14: 29
              +5
              Quote: Choi is alive
              Would I like to look at this adjustment if gas would be sold at a price like Ukraine?
              I think Belarus would have had enough for gas if it had taken from Russia a fee for two bases on its territory at the same price as Ukraine from Russia for Sevastopol. Well, they don’t take a dime ... Maybe they don’t understand their own benefits, or have we stopped understanding something?
              1. Tsoi is alive
                Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 14: 59
                +3
                Quote: V. Salama
                Well, they don’t take a dime ... Maybe they don’t understand their own benefits, or have we stopped understanding something?

                According to an agreement between Russia and Belarus signed by Yeltsin and Lukashenko in 1996, Russia wrote off debts for gas and credit debts to Belarus, and in response, Russia was exempted from rent for these facilities for 25 years.Lukashenka modestly "forgot" that he signed this document.
                Recall that back in 1995 Moscow and Minsk signed an agreement under which real estate and the land occupied by the station were transferred to the Russian side for 25 years free of charge and without taxes. And in 1999, the Belarusian side ratified an agreement on the joint use of military infrastructure facilities (troops command posts, terrain engineering equipment systems, air defense forces infrastructure, airfields, communications nodes and lines, landfills, arsenals, bases and warehouses). According to this agreement, facilities are financed from the state budgets or from the Union budget.

                Today, few people remember that in February 1996, Belarus had already received rent for the use of Russian military facilities on its territory. Then Alexander Lukashenko and Boris Yeltsin signed an agreement by which Moscow actually wrote off gas debt to Minsk. At that time, the entire external debt of Belarus amounted to $ 1,5 billion, the debt to Gazprom - $ 1 billion 200 million. Mikhail Chigir, who was then the Belarusian prime minister (from 1994 to 1996), recently said reporters that the then signed “zero option” de facto meant a concession to Russia, because all points of Belarusian expenses included in the agreement, “to be honest, did not cover, as we thought,” the amount of gas debt written off by Russia.


                So what else should we pay for? request
                1. V. Salama
                  V. Salama 13 February 2013 11: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Choi is alive
                  So what else should we pay for?
                  Convincingly stated on this issue, there is nothing to object. I just want to note that I did not hear from Lukashenka about the lease for objects, maybe he did not "forget" anything. It was A. Wasserman who reminded us of the peculiarities of relations with neighbors. I don’t know the subject so well as to provide factual material on behalf of Belarus on other aspects, where we owe them for the damage caused by our actions and violations of agreements, and this should not be done, I think ... - this path is extremely unproductive. I will only express the consideration that more important than the money that we can get now, there can only be even more money that we can lose later. And not everything is subject to monetary measurement ...
          2. Papakiko
            Papakiko 12 February 2013 16: 05
            +1
            Quote: older
            But to create a Russian-Belarusian joint venture

            SP is a utopia.
            "Batko" does not buy anything.
            But assets will probably be exchanged and they will and will do it.
            Quote: Botanologist
            how much can you date Lukashenko’s chair

            "Mattresses" half of the world "subsidize" and they really like it.
            Are we just supposedly "white crows" all for "the truth of the uterus and true values" cut?
            Everything has its own price.
            What is the price when working with our officials and aligarchs, I hope everyone understands.
        3. ded
          ded 12 February 2013 13: 22
          +2
          First, let everyone be put on an equal footing if we sell them oil and gas. how can their price be lower?


          I thought that no one would ever ask this question on this forum!

          That's why the Russians love everything Belarusian so much (because it’s cheaper with normal quality) and that’s why many Belarusians hate the Russians (because cheaper products are achieved in one single way: - beggarly salary people producing this product)!
          1. Tsoi is alive
            Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 13: 37
            0
            Quote: ded
            I thought that no one would ever ask this question on this forum!

            Asked.
            Quote: ded
            That's why Russians love everything Belarusian so much (because it’s cheaper with normal quality)

            Imagine in Russia there are also such enterprises, but there is a lot of counterfeit, therefore, they are sometimes suspicious of Russian goods.
            Quote: ded
            precisely for this, many Belarusians hate Russians

            ?
            Why do Russians hate Belarusians? Come on, no such thing.
            Quote: ded
            because the cheapening of products is achieved in one single way: - the miserable salary of people producing this product

            Do you really think that's good?
            How else have you entered 12 hours a working day?
            1. ded
              ded 12 February 2013 13: 53
              +2
              How else have you entered 12 hours a working day?


              In Belarus in the 21st century officially introduced SLAVERY!

              Read the link here:

              http://naviny.by/rubrics/society/2012/12/03/ic_news_116_406579/

              http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/international/2012/12/121208_belarus_lukashenko_ord
              er_jobs.shtml

              And you are talking about some kind of "trifles" like a 12-hour working day!
              1. Tsoi is alive
                Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 14: 07
                0
                Quote: ded
                And you are talking about some kind of "trifles" like a 12-hour working day!

                It's just some kind of chaos, that's what I want ask ask those who shout "Lukashenka is great", there is no desire to move and work there, especially after Russia, where almost everything is allowed.
                1. the polar
                  the polar 12 February 2013 16: 27
                  +5
                  Tsoi is alive,
                  No, I want to replace Putin with Lukashenko, and return the military-industrial complex to state administration, and send the oligarchy to the Arctic Circle, cut the clearing into a bright future
                  1. Tsoi is alive
                    Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 17: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Polar
                    and send the oligarchy to the Arctic Circle, cut the glade into a bright future

                    In hummocks? laughing

                2. ded
                  ded 12 February 2013 21: 09
                  +3
                  I would like to ask to ask those who shout "Lukashenka is great," there is no desire to move and work there, especially after Russia, where almost everything is allowed.


                  At present Belarus for Russia is like Cyprus for small Britain! An acquaintance of mine lived and worked in Cyprus for several years. So there are a lot of elderly Britons, as they (the British) work all their lives in their "Foggy Albion", and in retirement they move to Cyprus, where life is warmer and cheaper, and their British pension is enough for the eyes!

                  Also in Belarus. From the outside it seems like paradise! Cleanliness (compared to Russia), silence. But the Russians do not understand that it is impossible to earn money in Belarus! For many years I myself went to "earn money" in Russia and Kazakhstan, and therefore I know what it means to come to impoverished Belarus with money earned in Russia and hidden in shorts (this is not a joke! If you send money through banks or through payment systems, they will rip you off "how sticky "and can still be summoned to the KGB as one of my acquaintances). I remember how in 1999 my salary in Belarus (for two jobs!) Was $ 50, and I found a job in the Russian Far North (Urengoy) for $ 1000 US dollars.
                  As the saying goes: "Feel the difference!" Perhaps that is why there are so few "guests" from the Caucasus in Belarus. What should they do in a poor country when there is Moscow and St. Petersburg! Therefore, for a long time I have not been offended by those who shout "Lukashenka is great." I just feel sorry for them!
                  1. Tsoi is alive
                    Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 21: 17
                    +1
                    Quote: ded
                    Therefore, for a long time I have not been offended by those who shout "Lukashenka is great." I just feel sorry for them!

                    Believe me, I’m not even offended by their cons, realizing that life and virtual are completely different things!
                    Good luck! hi
                  2. Papakiko
                    Papakiko 13 February 2013 11: 05
                    0
                    Quote: ded
                    I remember how in 1999 my salary in Belarus (at two jobs!) Was $ 50 US dollars, and I found a job in the Russian Far North (Urengoy) for $ 1000 US dollars.

                    To you personally THANKS and many other residents of Belarus and especially Ukraine for the opportunity to enrich oneself on salary funds from the management of the Oil and Gas companies of the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug and the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug.
                    I, as a Russian, will also tell you a modest "thanks"that made it impossible to earn from $ 2000 to $ 4000 (how do the gas-oil workers of Norway, Canada, the USA) and "awarded" the opportunity to eke out a miserable existence for $ 1000-1200. hi
                    1. ded
                      ded 13 February 2013 17: 34
                      0
                      As a Russian, I will also say a modest "thank you" for depriving you of the opportunity to earn from $ 2000 to $ 4000 (as the oil and gas workers of Norway, Canada, and the USA get) and "rewarding" you with the opportunity to drag out a miserable existence for $ 1000-1200.


                      Great please! But I never wrote that I was an oil or gas worker. While I was in the north, gas workers received $ 4000 each, but they had a job. "mom don't cry".

                      I will describe only one case that the doctors told me:

                      In the hospital, there was one driver (either Uzbek or Tajik) who got into a snowstorm in a car. To keep warm, he burned all the fuel, all the wheels, but they found him too late. As a result, the man froze his arms and legs and had to be amputated. When the family at home learned about it, they immediately abandoned it! And this "doll" was lying in the hospital without arms and legs and no one knew what to do with it!

                      Therefore, I understand perfectly how dangerous this work is and how much they should pay for it!

                      earn from $ 2000 to $ 4000 (how do the gas and oil industry workers of Norway, Canada, the USA)


                      I’m afraid that for this money the gas-oil workers of Norway, Canada, and the USA will not scratch the doghouse. I was in Kazakhstan in Atyrau (formerly Guryev), so the oil workers from Norway worked there and the salary from 10000 US dollars and more was announced.

                      So keep shouting "Lukashenko is great," and then all of us (Belarusians) will move to work for you and live happily and happily on a salary of US $ 300!
                      1. Papakiko
                        Papakiko 14 February 2013 11: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: ded
                        I’m afraid that for this money the gas-oil workers of Norway, Canada, and the USA will not scratch the doghouse. I was in Kazakhstan in Atyrau (formerly Guryev), so the oil workers from Norway worked there and the salary from 10000 US dollars and more was announced.

                        According to the PSA for Sakhalin-1 and Sakhalin-2, too OH. what salaries and expenses were pledged by "sworn partners". And now you know what salaries figure in the calculation of the barrel black gold ?

                        Quote: ded
                        So keep shouting "Lukashenko is great," and then all of us (Belarusians) will move to work for you and live happily and happily on a salary of US $ 300!


                        You have forgotten about the international sanctions against Belarus introduced by the "Geyadrans". Thank you to the EU and the USA.
                        Regarding the Chukhontsev and Polyakov, you forget that you made them "offended and insulted" for "Nonaggression pact" и "Munich Agreement of the Entente". They do not experience sanctions on themselves, receive loans without%, only bark need in the right direction and all the buzz!

                        Quote: ded
                        In the hospital, there was one driver (either Uzbek or Tajik) who got into a snowstorm in a car. To keep warm, he burned all the fuel, all the wheels, but they found him too late. As a result, the man froze his arms and legs and had to be amputated. When the family at home learned about it, they immediately abandoned it! And this "doll" was lying in the hospital without arms and legs and no one knew what to do with it!

                        There are many such cases throughout Siberia, Yakutia, Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug, and Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug.
                        Only there does not appear Uzbek or Tajik. Mostly Indigenous vast homeland.
                  3. V. Salama
                    V. Salama 13 February 2013 13: 14
                    +1
                    Quote: ded
                    ... in 1999, my salary in Belarus (at two jobs!) was $ 50
                    Yes, we were paid better at the time, for two jobs. But you had better food, better quality and much cheaper. Thank you Lukashenko, retained agriculture.
                    Quote: ded
                    ... found a job in the Russian Far North (Urengoy) for $ 1000 US dollars.
                    Urengoy - oil, gas - "dreams come true only with you." Found something to compare with. Teachers, doctors of the Kostroma hinterland also know that there are such "Urengoi". "While young - go to Urengoy." They won't all fit there.
                    Quote: ded
                    ... what is it to come to impoverished Belarus
                    Belarus cannot be poor in principle, it is simply isolated and experiencing temporary difficulties. Any country can be "bent" if it does not have oil and gas, especially if there is such a desire.
                    Quote: ded
                    ... I do not take offense at those who shout "Lukashenka is great"
                    There would be no Lukashenko, it would be worse than in Ukraine, definitely ...
                    1. ded
                      ded 13 February 2013 18: 09
                      +1
                      There would be no Lukashenko, it would be worse than in Ukraine, definitely ...


                      Why do you compare small Belarus (about 10 million people) with huge (by Belarusian standards) Ukraine (about 43-46 million people) and giant Russia (145 million people)? It may be more correct to compare Belarus with the Baltic states? There in total (Lithuania + Latvia + Estonia) live about 7-8 million people. They live not badly and there is no Lukashenko there.

                      You can compare Belarus with Poland. I remember how in the 1990s the Poles ran after me around Brest, kissed my ass and asked "Pan buy ...". And where is Poland now? In Poland, the average salary is now $ 1500 and in Belarus $ 300!

                      So it’s not so simple and straightforward.
                      1. V. Salama
                        V. Salama 14 February 2013 14: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: ded
                        So it’s not so simple and straightforward.
                        I absolutely agree that in this topic it is impossible to cover all aspects in such a communication format, and you can endlessly bring facts to each other and not come to the truth - everyone learned to count, but it’s important not only who thinks, thinks and what thinks but also much more.
                        Quote: ded
                        Why are you comparing little Belarus ... with vast Ukraine ...? ... You can compare Belarus with Poland.
                        I do not think that size, in our case, matters. And why not with Poland or the Baltic states ...? The analogy is a dangerous thing, but in order to describe the situation, I will nevertheless resort to it: There was such a family of Old Believers - the Lykovs, wandered from the worldly life in the forests, now only Agafya remained alive. When geologists came across them and saw what kind of bread they eat (black and rough as earth), they treated them with white bread and condensed milk. Young (children) - Agafya and her brothers ate with pleasure, and the head of the family (I do not remember the name) did not even touch. One geologist got stuck, asked his grandfather: "... well, I understand condensed milk, a curiosity, but why not even try the bread?" To which he answers (it would be necessary for our people to show such wisdom when necessary), such as: “Well, I’ll try, but how will I continue to live, will I have my own bread, raise it, cherish it ...?”
                        So, it doesn’t matter to me what’s in the Baltic States, it’s important for me that what is done in the “family” is where some people don’t want to live our own resources (especially since we are self-sufficient in all its forms) and, by our labor improve technology, joint efforts to improve the quality of their lives. You can run away from the “family” to find gold (oil, gas) in the forest and run away to the “geologists” - to exchange condensed milk and vodka for it (this is not about Belarus). I remember with what motivations our elite was breaking up the Union — for the opportunity to buy guipure shorts (costing half the salary) for their mistress, a foreign car for themselves, and so on.
                        Probably, Lykov-father decided that he was already old, but “they didn’t drag them to heaven by force” and he didn’t beat the children on the lips - educate, teach mind. But Lukashenko is not leaving. Cause?
                        1. Young yet, strength still hold. 2. A sense of responsibility for the fate of their people and country does not allow. 3. He loves power very much, he wants to be a king, to grab more good. Well, etc. Everyone decides to the best of his understanding.
          2. sniper
            sniper 12 February 2013 17: 00
            +3
            Well, this is already a clear overkill ..... Somehow I have not met such "hating", Grandfather, you must admit that he got excited ...
            1. ded
              ded 12 February 2013 21: 20
              0
              Grandfather, agree that he got excited


              To blame. I agree, it’s rather not hatred, but some kind of bad feeling.
            2. Oleg14774
              Oleg14774 12 February 2013 21: 21
              0
              Good evening, Sniper! :)
              I think Grandfather definitely got excited! As long as Belarus is what it is, it's great. In the Soviet Union, they also looked to the west and didn’t store what they had, but now they bite their elbows.
              So he got excited for sure! Mother has enough problems in Russia too!
        4. domokl
          domokl 12 February 2013 14: 12
          +1
          Quote: Choi is alive
          First, let everyone be put on an equal footing if we sell them oil and gas. how can their price be lower?
          And who told you that gas and oil prices are free for Russian enterprises? They are no lower than for Belarusians fellow
          1. Tsoi is alive
            Tsoi is alive 12 February 2013 14: 37
            0
            Quote: domokl
            And who told you that gas and oil prices are free for Russian enterprises? They are no lower than for Belarusians

            Please read the post carefully, there is exactly the opposite regarding your assumption!
        5. ded
          ded 13 February 2013 18: 34
          +1
          we sell them oil, gas. how can their price be lower?


          I will answer you as a super-duper extra specialist, since I worked at one enterprise and did exactly that.

          It's simple: products are sold at a price lower than the cost of their production, that is, at a loss. Marasmus? Not really! All this loss is transferred to the cost of production that goes to the domestic Belarusian market. And it turns out that products for Russia are cheaper, and for a Belarusian buyer it becomes more expensive. Why is this done? The answer is simple: CURRENCY is needed, and without it Belarus will be a complete train!
      2. Jurkovs
        Jurkovs 12 February 2013 14: 08
        0
        We have formed a powerful state order for defense industry products; let Belarus formulate some state order too so that our enterprises can remove the foam, as well as play one-on-one (milk powder, thinners, etc.).
      3. domokl
        domokl 12 February 2013 14: 09
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        but Belarusian producers can increase competition for one thing, they can lower prices inside Russia
        Alexander, this is the military-industrial complex .. And there the prices are generally not competitive .. There is a narrow specialization, as Arkady Raikin used to say ... laughing
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 12 February 2013 14: 38
          +1
          Quote: domokl
          .. And there the prices are generally not competitive

          Even as competitive, Belarusians will present BMP of equal characteristics at a lower price and ?????
    3. Shoma-1970
      Shoma-1970 12 February 2013 11: 37
      +4
      There is no difference, because soon we are one state.
    4. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 February 2013 12: 46
      0
      Such an experience already exists. Both in the military and in the civilian sphere.
      For example, "Defense Systems"
      http://www.defensys.ru/about.html

      There is only one problem, Belarusians seem to be under sanctions.
    5. valokordin
      valokordin 12 February 2013 13: 07
      +6
      Quote: older
      It’s probably too tough .. Buy it on an eternity .. But to create a Russian-Belarusian joint venture is quite right ... And we will help the Belarusians and control will be on our part

      As soon as the Russian criminal business (there is no other) gobbles up Belarusian enterprises will be over. This greedy pack will drive the Belarusian economy into a coffin. Old Man do not budge.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 12 February 2013 13: 12
        +3
        Quote: valokordin
        RљR ° Rє S,RѕR "SЊRєRѕ SЂRѕSЃSЃRoR№SЃRєRoR№ RєSЂRoRјRoRЅR ° F" SЊRЅS <P ± R№ Röhr · RЅRμSЃ (RґSЂSѓRіRѕRіRѕ RЅRμS,) SЃRѕR¶SЂS'S P ± RμR »P ± RѕSЂSѓSЃSЃRєRoRμ RїSЂRμRґRїSЂRoSЏS,RoSЏ SѓRґRμS, RєRѕRЅRμS †

        РџРѕРґР ° вятся! R'R ° тькР° сожрР° ть РЅРµ РґР ° СЃС ‚! Rђ RІRѕS, RїSЂRѕRґSѓRєS RoSЋ † P ± RμR "RѕSЂSѓSЃS <RїRѕSЃS,R ° RІR» P ± SЏS,SЊ SѓRґSѓS, RѕS RμRЅSЊ RєR ‡ ‡ RμSЃS,RІRμRЅRЅSѓSЋ ° C, RЅR ° SЌS,RѕRј Ryo S,RμRЅRґRμSЂ RјRѕRіSѓS, RІS <RoRіSЂR ° ть.
        1. V. Salama
          V. Salama 12 February 2013 14: 47
          +3
          Quote: Egoza
          ... on this and the tender can win
          I sincerely hope, but there is reason to doubt the honesty of the game. There has already been a case in recent history of relations when top secretly recommended to our traders to refrain from purchasing Belarusian goods.
        2. morpex
          morpex 12 February 2013 17: 07
          0
          Egoza,

          But Belarusians will deliver products of very high quality,

          I can argue with you about the Belarusian quality. I have my own equipment by type of occupation, I am a farmer, so in recent years 5 parts from Belarus have become much worse quality. And from Russia, on the contrary, it’s better. .
        3. slvevg
          slvevg 12 February 2013 18: 05
          +1
          Unfortunately do not choke!
      2. V. Salama
        V. Salama 12 February 2013 14: 40
        +3
        Quote: valokordin
        This greedy pack will drive the Belarusian economy into a coffin.
        Absolutely right. They have long dreamed of a tasty morsel in the form of an "uncut" economy and are helping the West in creating problems for Belarus. All hope is only for the Old Man.
    6. Jurkovs
      Jurkovs 12 February 2013 14: 05
      0
      How often, with such good intentions, we came to the very edge of the abyss. That will leave Lukashenko (but he is not eternal), will replace another Yushchenko, what will we do? Lukashenko holds the people too tight, a rollback of any depth is possible. Russia should only rely on its own strengths, this will be the most correct and pragmatic approach.
      1. V. Salama
        V. Salama 12 February 2013 14: 55
        +1
        Quote: Jurkovs
        Lukashenko holds the people too tight
        And where would Beorussia have been if it had not been held?
        Quote: Jurkovs
        ... rollback of any depth is possible.
        Absolutely, they themselves passed ....
        Quote: Jurkovs
        ... this will be the most correct and pragmatic approach.
        I do not agree here, mutually beneficial relations will be established now, any "Yushchenko" will face the fate of Mishiko Saakashvili.
    7. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 12 February 2013 18: 08
      -3
      Actually, why should we help someone? Do we have that few caucasians are hanging around their necks? They bought up industry and began to do what we consider necessary, and the indigenous population will work there anyway, and that will be the help.
      1. V. Salama
        V. Salama 13 February 2013 13: 48
        0
        Quote: Geisenberg
        Actually, why should we help someone?
        Here is the key word to help someone. Why help? It’s also clear - in order to be able to count on help.
        Quote: Geisenberg
        Do we have that few caucasians are hanging around their necks?
        Note, you yourself formulated it - "hangs on the neck." This is the Khasavyurt tribute of the people for the sins of its political elite. This is completely out of topic here.
        Quote: Geisenberg
        They bought up industry and .... there will be an indigenous population, that will be the help.
        I understand why we poorly know what socialism is, but I absolutely do not understand why we still do not know what capitalism is. I worked in a government agency, where his manager bought his job, as it turned out. So he believed that he bought this institution with the staff. But this is not the topic, since this is feudalism ...
  2. Fox
    Fox 12 February 2013 11: 19
    -4
    as soon as Russia has bought up the Belarusian defense industry at the root, one can put an end to the entire defense industry.
    1. evgenii67
      evgenii67 12 February 2013 11: 40
      +8
      Quote: Fox
      as soon as Russia has bought up the Belarusian defense industry at the root, one can put an end to the entire defense industry.

      “However, according to the chairman of the State Military Industry,“ the signing of this decree by the Prime Minister of Russia does not mean that we were taken there and accepted ... ”The point is that Belarusian enterprises now have the right, on an equal basis with Russian ones,“ to fight for this market ". There used to be an article saying that Russia would abandon MAZ in favor of KamAZ, so to speak, you are developing a KAMAZ multi-axle tractor (with all the jambs, but in a different way) for ICBMs, and let Belarusians go along their beards request not in a Christian way, like with brothers, and why change the products in advance to worse (forgive me KAMAZ and Naberezhnye Chelny) Belarusians have tremendous experience in creating tractors, and all of their products have a quality mark. But in general it’s time to unite, subject to leaving the father good the governor of the Belorussian Land, as they say only does not make worse .... drinks
      1. Alexander
        Alexander 12 February 2013 13: 37
        0
        Evangii67. Nothing like that will happen. There will be a consortium "MAZ + KAMAZ = Kuz'kina's mother".
      2. V. Salama
        V. Salama 12 February 2013 15: 10
        +1
        Quote: evgenii67
        It is only about the fact that Belarusian enterprises now have the right to “fight for this market” along with Russian ones.
        According to our legislation, an equal right to participate on a competitive basis in the sale of services for state and municipal needs is declared. The prose of life has shown that everyone has the right, but the possibilities - all sorts of Serdyukovs decide who to provide, and not an honest competition. Here it’s true, you’ll take care of this integration
        Quote: evgenii67
        ... as they say, just do no worse
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 12 February 2013 13: 10
      +2
      Fox,
      Quote: Fox
      As soon as Russia will buy up the Belarusian defense industry at the root, one can put an end to the whole defense industry.

      Bravo Fox, our opinions agree one on one. The Belarusian military-industrial complex is over. No matter how good the Belarusian tractors were, the order was given to Bryansk, although this was not necessary.
    3. ded
      ded 12 February 2013 13: 43
      +1
      as soon as Russia has bought up the Belarusian defense industry at the root, one can put an end to the entire defense industry.


      Russia buys up Belarusian enterprises not in order to rob or destroy someone, and not even to get "huge" profits, but in order to control the production process and protect itself from constant inappropriate antics and outright blackmail, you know who!
      1. V. Salama
        V. Salama 12 February 2013 15: 01
        +1
        Quote: ded
        Russia buys up Belarusian enterprises not in order to rob or destroy someone, and not even to get a "huge" profit

        "There is nothing more erroneous than a look from the outside" Julian Semyonov.

        I think we know better ...
    4. rubber_duck
      rubber_duck 12 February 2013 15: 19
      +5
      Quote: Fox
      as soon as Russia has bought up the Belarusian defense industry at the root, one can put an end to the entire defense industry.


      In vain you minus a person. As soon as defense enterprises (it does not matter whether Russian or Belarusian) fall into private hands, it will really be possible to put an end to them. For it is much more profitable for a private owner to get right away with a choh in his hands for the liquidation of these enterprises an amount equivalent to their hypothetical profit for "eleven" years. There is a concrete argument for privatization advocates. How many Soviet enterprises were privatized? And how many of them are now creating at least the appearance of work? All! Young people, of course, do not remember, but I remember very well the perestroika incantations, they say, "the state means nobody's, but the Master will appear (just like that, with a capital letter)" ... Well? .. The result is obvious!
    5. slvevg
      slvevg 12 February 2013 18: 13
      0
      Fox, completely in the hole, while there are such effective managers as Poghosyan and the like! There are plenty of examples of fair competition in Russia itself, and experts on this site recognize this!
  3. SPIRITofFREEDOM
    SPIRITofFREEDOM 12 February 2013 11: 24
    +5
    CORRECTLY!!!!
    The tighter the INTEGRATION - the better!
    Good direction selected
    We are also not at hand to allow the Belarusian economy to collapse
    In no case should we abandon an ally, and even Brotherly
  4. Armata
    Armata 12 February 2013 11: 28
    +5
    Well, it’s nothing that integration and sale are somewhat different concepts. The title of the article distorts reality. Yes, there are relevant documents stating that cooperation with Belarusian companies in the sphere of the State Defense Order is permitted, but damn it does not mean that we are buying up enterprises there.
  5. ziqzaq
    ziqzaq 12 February 2013 11: 29
    +4
    Belarusians well done !!!
  6. Rus_87
    Rus_87 12 February 2013 11: 32
    +7
    Still, in relation to Kazakhstan, such a decision would be adopted ... drinks soldier
    1. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 12 February 2013 11: 33
      +3
      Quote: Rus_87

      Still, in relation to Kazakhstan, such a decision to adopt

      Will hope...
    2. skrgar
      skrgar 12 February 2013 12: 48
      +3
      I agree. But I think that now in the minds of many, and not only in Russia, the question "WHAT will happen in Kazakhstan ... when ... apparently soon ... Nazarbayev will leave ..." .. Unfortunately, the years take their toll ...
      1. valokordin
        valokordin 12 February 2013 13: 13
        +1
        Quote: skrgar
        I agree. But I think that now in the minds of many, and not only in Russia, the question "WHAT will happen in Kazakhstan ... when ... apparently soon ... Nazarbayev will leave ..." .. Unfortunately, the years take their toll ...

        Almaata and other juses will write in Turkish. They are not friends with the weak and weak-willed. Years take their toll.
      2. Rus_87
        Rus_87 12 February 2013 15: 20
        0
        Yes, indeed, such thoughts are in our country ... But we are Kazakhstani born optimists and, as always, we hope for the good and the best!
        PS
        Of course, I didn’t tell you anything, but in the place of Russia I would already be preparing “my” man for the post of President of Kazakhstan bully fellow . Because we [the people of Kazakhstan] really, VERY would not want for someone like a tie-eater to stand at the helm in our country! drinks
        1. skrgar
          skrgar 12 February 2013 15: 52
          +1
          We understand you very, very !! smile Well, I still think .. that the sage Nazarbayev "prepared" a fertile soil, "heredity" ..
  7. anchonsha
    anchonsha 12 February 2013 11: 49
    +3
    The integration of the defense industry of Russia and Belarus is a good thing. But how to prevent the absorption of more smaller is already a matter of politics. Businessmen do not care about equality, they always seek to get more. So, it is necessary to create possibly joint JVs or to do something else so that the very redemption of the defense industry from Belarusians does not happen.
  8. SEM
    SEM 12 February 2013 11: 56
    +8
    Here is a very important and serious question, but the unification will certainly save us in this our strength ... I always believed that if Russia Belarus Ukraine and Kazakhstan unite into a single state it will be a new and now indestructible fraternal union. In such a state, all tasks are solved))) Who agrees ???
    1. Alekseir162
      Alekseir162 12 February 2013 12: 13
      +1
      Quote: SEM
      Who agrees ???

      I agree one hundred percent, together it will be very difficult for us to make us bend in front of the United States. Russia today is not what it was under Gorbachev and Yeltsin, and together no one can defeat us at all.
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 12 February 2013 13: 18
      +2
      - 2 +
      Here is a very important and serious question, but the unification will certainly save us in this our strength ... I always believed that if Russia Belarus Ukraine and Kazakhstan unite into a single state it will be a new and now indestructible fraternal union. In such a state, all tasks are solved))) Who agrees ??? [/ quote]
      Everyone agrees, only who will lead this fraternal union, God forbid Medvedev and Serdyukov
    3. Jurkovs
      Jurkovs 12 February 2013 14: 16
      +1
      I agree. Cool Maidan will be released from Astana to Kiev, from Moscow to Minsk.
    4. V. Salama
      V. Salama 12 February 2013 15: 18
      +2
      Quote: SEM
      Who agrees ???
      And who can disagree? Only one, clearly not a stupid figure, warned that before uniting, it would be necessary to "decisively dissociate" (otherwise it could happen, as Chernomyrdin said).
  9. GELEZNII_KAPUT
    GELEZNII_KAPUT 12 February 2013 12: 21
    0
    Et they lure Ukraine into the vehicle! laughing
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 February 2013 12: 27
      +2
      Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT
      Et they lure Ukraine in the vehicle

      And what to lure, there is a proposal and they have long been voiced. They want to let them join the Customs Union, but do not want it in the EU. One problem, the EU is the path to bankruptcy hi
      1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 12 February 2013 13: 16
        +2
        Definitely, Alexander! And this is t.s. Another argument for joining the CU, not the EU.
  10. avt
    avt 12 February 2013 12: 25
    +4
    Well, for Old Man, you’ll take laughing Already tried.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 February 2013 12: 29
      +3
      Quote: avt
      Well, for Old Man, you’ll take

      For so it is out of love and mutual desire, but for the money .............
  11. timurso
    timurso 12 February 2013 12: 38
    +4
    Integration with Belarus is good. It is imperative to open the market for CIVIL goods from Belarus. But the defense industry needs to think a hundred times. Today Belarus is integrating with us, but what will happen tomorrow? There are plenty of Russophobes in Belarus, and Lukashenko is not eternal. And what will we do with the united defense industry if some Belarusian "Yushchenko" comes to power in Belarus?
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 12 February 2013 13: 15
      +3
      Quote: timurso
      P ° P ›СѓРєР ° С € енко РЅРµ РІРµС З РµРЅ.

      Р — Р ° то Сѓ него СЃС ‹РЅРѕРІСЊСЏ РїРѕРґСЂРѕСЃР» Рё. R'SѓРґРµС ‚Р› СѓРєР ° С € енко-2. Рђ СѓР¶ воспитР° РµС ‚РѕРЅ РёС ... РїСЂР ° РІРёР» СЊРЅРѕ.
    2. sniper
      sniper 12 February 2013 17: 09
      +3
      Quote: timurso
      There are plenty of Russophobes in Belarus,

      Believe me, much less than you think, the population of Belarus is mostly Russian-speaking and has strong family ties with Russia. Too many Belarusians died in the Second World War and many Russians moved here .... So you can not be afraid of Russophobes ...
  12. ruton
    ruton 12 February 2013 12: 41
    +4
    The main thing is that our habitually, do not buy the defense industry from the Belarusians, and as usual did not close as a competitor. We have many examples in Russia, not only in the defense industry.
  13. tun1313
    tun1313 12 February 2013 12: 42
    +2
    The main thing is that the purchase was not for the sake of eliminating the competitor. And so it's time, and then a single state, a single state, more words. Then you don’t look at Old Man and you turn, the KGB hasn’t been canceled.
  14. yanus
    yanus 12 February 2013 12: 46
    -5
    Belarus mainly supplies electronics and so on. Since the days of the USSR, electronics has traditionally lagged behind the world. Now in Belarus with her salaries to engineers, all sane people fled, including to Russia.
    The only sensible way of cooperation is to buy out enterprises, entice employees with normal salaries, free apartments and citizenship. The enterprises themselves should go bankrupt, take out the equipment just in case, and already in Russia build enterprises with modern equipment.
    Then maybe it will turn out to reach the normal level of electronics. And now there is such a mess. One story with the sticker of the Integral logos on Asus monitors and the inscription was made in Belarus. This is an unviable path of development, such enterprises will bend - a matter of time.
    1. donchepano
      donchepano 12 February 2013 21: 10
      +1
      Quote: yanus
      The only sensible way of cooperation is to buy out enterprises, entice employees with normal salaries, free apartments and citizenship. The enterprises themselves should go bankrupt, take out the equipment just in case, and already in Russia build enterprises with modern equipment.


      REALLY JANUS - DOUBLE ...
      BANK, SELL, WITHDRAW, CUT, ROLL ...
      IN RUSSIA ALREADY FOR THIS SCENARIO TAKEN OUT THE WHOLE INDUSTRY ..
      DON'T GIVE GOD SUCH ADVISERS
  15. shurup
    shurup 12 February 2013 12: 46
    +2
    We say Russia is ready to buy, we mean - Russian oligarchs are ready to buy profitable assets and cheaper. Bankrupt will not succeed, so you need to go on the other side. It is not good when the profit remains in the Republic of Belarus, and does not settle in the right pockets - it is somehow not fraternal on the part of the Republic of Belarus. It is in vain that Russia feeds them, drinks and puts them to bed!
    1. Predator-74
      Predator-74 12 February 2013 13: 14
      +3
      Most likely, the oligarchs will not be given the power to launch a hand in the military-industrial complex, if the oligarchs mean the enterprise, then there is nothing to worry about, because sooner or later the integration of Belarus will happen. Recently, this has been especially felt, and by the way it seems that everything happens mutually.
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 12 February 2013 13: 14
      +1
      Quote: shurup
      We say Russia is ready to buy, we mean - Russian oligarchs are ready to buy profitable assets and cheaper. Bankrupt will not succeed, so you need to go on the other side. It is not good when the profit remains in the Republic of Belarus, and does not settle in the right pockets - it is somehow not fraternal on the part of the Republic of Belarus. It is in vain that Russia feeds them, drinks and puts them to bed!

      I hope that skepticism on your part will be clear to all forum users.
  16. skrgar
    skrgar 12 February 2013 13: 09
    +1
    Yes OK. And "to buy up the assets of the defense industry of the Republic of Bashkortostan in order to protect yourself from political risks" .. Well, why are they "sculpting a fairy tale" for us !! ?? !! .. You practically cannot insure yourself from political risks .. and there are a lot of examples .. Let it be like this , for now, everything is moving .. The news pleases !!!!
  17. Logs
    Logs 12 February 2013 13: 35
    +4
    With Belarusians, as always, it seems like stable friendships, when we also start living with Ukrainians drinks
  18. Son
    Son 12 February 2013 13: 50
    0
    - “Meanwhile, many Belarusian experts fear that closer cooperation poses a threat to the Belarusian defense industry enterprises, which may be absorbed by Russian business.” ...
    - "According to a number of experts ..." ....
    I express my opinion, do not scold!
    I would - all these anonymous experts and other "high-ranking sources" ...
    1. V. Salama
      V. Salama 12 February 2013 15: 22
      0
      Quote: Son
      I express my opinion ...
      But why there is something to be ashamed of, there are such threats ... And why shouldn't they be?
  19. Nechai
    Nechai 12 February 2013 14: 38
    +1
    Quote: andrejwz
    If the seller is able to pay 10% of the purchase price what is the profit inherent in the expected result

    They added the toe (at least) just ...
    Quote: Spade
    There is only one problem, Belarusians seem to be under sanctions.

    Well, Russia as a whole has not yet. And even as "made in India", will not 1% play a big role?
    Quote: valokordin
    As soon as the Russian criminal business (there is no other) gobbles up Belarusian enterprises will be over. This greedy pack will drive the Belarusian economy into a coffin. Old Man do not budge.

    “Russia is ready to buy up the Belarusian defense industry in the bud” - he will eat it, but who will give it to him!
    Quote: yanus
    Since the days of the USSR, electronics has traditionally lagged behind the world.

    Do not forget to ADD - TOTAL CIVIL APPOINTMENT. Otherwise, a repetition of liberalistic delirium turns out. When ufologists found crystals in the Sikhote-Alin mountains that were interesting, from their point of view, they were examined by specialists NOT connected with the Soviet defense industry. The conclusion was made - a sample of artificial origin, made by NOT AVAILABLE, at the moment, technology for earthlings. And then there was a manusenky fragment of the electronic control circuit of the Soviet missile. Fallen A long time ago in the place of search work by ufologists.
    Recently, there was an infa about the creation in Russia of the production technology of ANGSTREMO processors and highly integrated circuits. The question is whether the POLITICAL WILL of the rulers WILL exist in the deployment of in-line production on this technology? Indeed, until recently, the installation was - in no case create competition with their foreign partners. A complete rejection of competitive advantages.
  20. wax
    wax 12 February 2013 14: 42
    +1
    The closer the cooperation, the more reliable and calmer the future.
  21. Polesye_wolf
    Polesye_wolf 12 February 2013 14: 44
    +2
    problems of integration and industrial cooperation in this area are the subject of constant attention of the highest political leadership of Belarus and Russia.

    Integration is when Putin will fulfill the presidential duties in a single state, and Lukashenko the prime ones.

    The former turns out to be normal in foreign policy, and the latter is a sensible business executive who is still to be looked for.
  22. sxn278619
    sxn278619 12 February 2013 14: 50
    +2
    Something people are not talking about.
    The article is written
    It is only about the fact that Belarusian enterprises now have the right to “fight for this market” along with Russian ones.
    The Russian company and Belarus will offer the Ministry of Defense the same product. Competition in the framework of the Customs Union.
    But price competition - who has lower cost (and the share of the wage fund there is high), he will win.
    And who will lose?
    Remembering the cries of procurement of NATO equipment.
    Therefore, it is only necessary that Russia does not produce a chassis, microelectronics, etc. ( Integral, Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant and MAZ)
    1. V. Salama
      V. Salama 13 February 2013 14: 11
      0
      Quote: sxn278619
      .... who has lower cost (and the share of the wage fund there is high)
      A large share of wages is a manifestation of concern for the people. But here on the page they say that the salaries there are "beggarly", therefore the cost of production is low (I don’t think that managers are allowed to fatten there, as we do), and this is a sign of high production efficiency (I have no doubts about the required quality of products). I think they will make a worthy competition, and on this basis, and integration. But who will allow? As one gentleman (an artistic character, but too much according to Stanislavsky) said: "What is useful to me is useful to Russia ..."
  23. nsws3
    nsws3 12 February 2013 15: 51
    +1
    Unite once again unite, in unity is our strength! Ah, let the Americans be angry!
  24. Alibekulu
    Alibekulu April 24 2013 14: 37
    +2
    Quote: Rus_87
    in the place of Russia, I would already be preparing "my" man for the post of President of Kazakhstan


    What does it mean to cook ?? !! fool We’ll prepare it for ourselves, without the orders of Moscow ...
    Rus_87, would you be pleased if you were preparing "your" man for the post of president of the Russian Federation ??
    By the way, this is how the West relied on Gorbachev .. and what came of it ..
    With this statement you insult the people of Kazakhstan .. angry
    We ourselves have the right to elect a worthy president ..
    And this is only our right .. And no one, and Russia including, decide who will be our president ...