Underwater adversary. Los Angeles-class submarine

Underwater adversary. Los Angeles-class submarine



History atomic killers of the Los Angeles type began in 1906, when a family of emigrants from the Russian Empire - Abraham, Rachel and their six-year-old son Haim, entered the Immigration Service hall of Ellis Island (New Jersey). The male was not a miss - when he grew up, he entered the Naval Academy and became a four-star admiral of the US Navy. Total Hyman Rickover served on navy 63 years old and would still serve if I didn’t fall for receiving a bribe of 67 thousand dollars (Rickover himself unlocked to the end, claiming that this “nonsense” had no effect on his decisions).

In 1979, after a major accident at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant, Hyman Ricover, as an expert, was called to Congress to testify. The question sounded prosaic: “One hundred US Navy nuclear submarines are moving in the depths of the oceans - and not a single accident with the reactor core in 20 years. And here a new nuclear power plant standing on the shore collapsed. Maybe Admiral Rickover knows some magic word? ”

The answer of the aged admiral was simple: there are no secrets, you just need to work with people. Personally communicate with each specialist, immediately remove fools from work with the reactor and expel them from the fleet. To all high ranks who for some reason interfere with preparing personnel in accordance with these principles and sabotaging the fulfillment of my instructions, declare a merciless war and also expel them from the fleet. Ruthlessly "gnaw" contractors and engineers. Safety and reliability - these are the main areas of work, otherwise even the most powerful and modern submarines will be burnt with bundles in peacetime.

The principles of Admiral Rickover (safety and reliability above all) formed the basis of the Los Angeles project - the most numerous series in the history of the nuclear submarine fleet, consisting of 62 multipurpose nuclear submarines. The purpose of "Los Angeles" (or "Moose" - the nickname of the boats in the Soviet fleet) - the fight against surface ships and submarines of the enemy, covering aircraft carrier groups and areas of deployment of strategic submarine rocket carriers. Covert mining, intelligence, special operations.

If we take only table characteristics for the basis: “speed”, “depth of immersion”, “number of torpedo tubes”, then against the background of domestic “Typhoons”, “Anteyev” and “Schuk”, “Los Angeles” looks like a mediocre trough. A single-body steel coffin, divided into three sections - any hole will be fatal for him. For comparison, the robust hull of the domestic multi-purpose submarine of the 971 Ave. Pike-B is divided into six sealed compartments. And the giant rocket carrier of the 941 Shark project has 19 at all!

Only four torpedo tubes located at an angle to the median plane of the hull. As a result, the "Elk" can not shoot at full speed - otherwise the torpedo will simply be broken by the oncoming flow of water. For comparison, "Pike-B" has 8 nasal TA and is able to apply its weapon over the entire range of working depths and speeds.
The working depth of the Los Angeles dive is just 250 meters. A quarter of a kilometer - is this really not enough? For comparison, the working depth of the “Pike-B” is 500 meters, the maximum depth is 600!

Canonical image of Los Angeles-type submarine

The speed of the boat. Surprisingly, here at the American everything is not so bad - in the submerged position “Elk” is able to accelerate to 35 nodes. The result is more than worthy, only six knots less than the incredible Soviet "Lyra" (705 project). And this is without the use of titanium housings and terrible reactors with metal coolants!

On the other hand, a high maximum speed has never been the most important parameter of a submarine — on the 25 nodes, the boat’s acoustics no longer hear anything because of the noise of the incoming water and the submarine becomes “deaf”, and on the 30 nodes the boat rumbles so that heard at the other end of the ocean. High speed is a useful, but not too important quality.

The main weapon of any submarine is stealth. This parameter contains the entire meaning of the existence of the submarine fleet. Stealth is determined primarily by the level of submarine's own noise. The noise level of Los Angeles-class submarines has not just met world standards. The Los Angeles submarine itself set world standards.
There were several reasons for the extremely low noise of the Elks:

- single body design. The area of ​​the wetted surface decreased, and, as a result, the noise from friction against water when the boat was moving.

- quality of manufacture of screws. By the way, the quality of manufacture of propellers of the third-generation Soviet nuclear submarines also increased (and their noise level decreased) after a detective story with the purchase of high-precision metal-cutting machines from Toshiba. Having learned about a secret deal between the USSR and Japan, America threw such a scandal that poor Toshiba almost lost access to the American market. Late! On the expanses of the oceans already out "Pike-B" with new screws.

- Some specific points, such as the rational placement of equipment inside the boat, the depreciation of turbines and power equipment. The contours of the reactor have a greater degree of natural circulation of the coolant - this made it possible to abandon pumps of high productivity, and, consequently, reduce the noise of "Los Angeles".

It is not enough for a submarine to be fast and secretive - to successfully complete tasks it is necessary to have a concrete understanding of the environment, to learn to navigate in the water column, to find and identify surface and underwater targets. For a long time, the only means of external detection were a periscope and sonar post with an analyzer in the form of a sailor's ear-acoustics. Well, still a gyrocompass, showing where the North is under this damn water.

Los Angeles is much more interesting. American engineers played all in - all equipment was dismantled from the bow of the boat, including torpedo tubes. As a result, the spherical antenna of the AN / BQS-13 hydroacoustic station with a diameter of 4,6 meter occupies the entire nose of the case. Also, the submarine hydroacoustic complex includes a side-view conformal antenna consisting of 102 hydrophones, an active high-frequency sonar for detecting natural obstacles (underwater rocks, ice fields on the surface of the water, mines, etc.), as well as two towed passive antennas of length 790 and 930 meters (taking into account the length of the cable).

Other means of collecting information include: an instrument for measuring the speed of sound at different depths (an absolutely necessary means for accurately determining the distance to a target), AN / BPS-15 radar and AN / WLR-9 electronic reconnaissance system (for working on the surface), periscope general overview (type 8) and periscope attacks (type 15).
However, no cool sensors and sonars helped the San Francisco submarine - 8 January 2005, the boat going on 30 nodes (≈ 55 km / h) crashed into an underwater cliff. One sailor died, another 23 was injured, and a smart antenna in the bow was broken to pieces.

USS San Francisco (SSN-711) after colliding with an underwater obstacle

The weakness of the Los Angeles torpedo armament is to some extent compensated by a wide range of ammunition — all aboard the 26 remote-controlled torpedoes Mk.48 (533 caliber mm, ≈ 1600 kg), anti-ship missiles SUB-Harpoon, anti-submarine rocket sheds-hingedboard, Sent-missile pedal Sted-pedal Sted-Apedactors, SARD-Squeezed Chart SPS, S-Garpun missiles, anti-ship missiles, SDP-Garpun, anti-submarine missiles, Sed-pedal Sted-pedal Sted-Apedactors, Sent-Ghats, anti-ship missiles, SDP-Garpun, anti-submarine rocket sheds-hingedboard, Sent-rocket sheds, and all anti-ship missiles. Tomahawk and Captor smart mines.

To increase combat effectiveness, in the bow of each Los Angeles, starting with 32, boats began to install 12 vertical launch shafts for storing and launching Tomahawks. In addition, part of the submarines are equipped with a Dry Deck Shelter container for storing equipment for combat swimmers.
The modernization was carried out not “for show”, but on the basis of real combat experience - “Los Angeles” is regularly involved in attacking coastal targets. Blood “elks” are on the horns - in the lists of destroyed targets Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya ...

USS Greeneville (SSN-772) with Dry Deck Shelter fixed on its body

The latest 23 boats were built according to the redesigned Los Angeles Improved Project. Submarines of this type were specially adapted for operations in high latitudes under the ice dome of the Arctic. The boats have removed the rudder steering wheels, replacing them with retractable rudders in the bow. Screw was enclosed in a profiled annular nozzle, which further reduced the noise level. The electronic "stuffing" of the boat has undergone a partial modernization.
The last boat in the Los Angeles series, called the Cheyenne, was built in 1996 year. At that time, when the last boats of the series were completed, the first 17 units, having served a fixed period, were already sent for scrapping. “Elks” still form the basis of the US submarine fleet, 2013 submarines of this type are still in the ranks of the 42 for a year.

Returning to our initial conversation - what did the Americans do after all — a tin-shaped tin pot with lowered characteristics or a highly efficient underwater combat complex?

Purely from the point of view of reliability, Los Angeles has set a record that nobody has yet broken - over the 37 years of active operation on this type of 62 boats, no serious accidents were recorded with core damage to the reactor. Traditions of Hyman Rickover are still alive.

As for the combat characteristics, the creators of the "Moose" can be a little praise. The Americans managed to build a generally successful ship with an emphasis on the most important characteristics (stealth and means of detection). The boat was undoubtedly the best in the world in the 1976 year, but by the middle of the 1980-x, with the appearance of the first 971 “Schuka-B” 3 multi-purpose submarine of the USSR Navy, the American submarine fleet again found itself in the “catch-up” position. Realizing some of the inferiority of the “Elk” in front of the “Shchuka-B”, the development of the project “SeaWolf” began in the States - a formidable submarine cruiser at a price of $ XNUMX billion dollars apiece (the construction of three “SeaWolfs” was mastered).

In general, a conversation about Los Angeles-type boats is not so much a conversation about technology, as a conversation about the crews of these submarines. Man is the measure of everything. Thanks to the training and thorough maintenance of equipment, the American sailors managed in 37 years not to lose a single boat of this type.

Post scriptum. In April, 1984, a retired Admiral Hyman Rickover, received a cool present for his 84 anniversary - a Los Angeles-type 7000-ton battle submarine named after him.


At the periscope depth



Central post





Arctic cruises american sailors


Author:
Ctrl Enter

Noticed a mistake Highlight text and press. Ctrl + Enter

121 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. avt
    avt 11 February 2013 09: 33 New
    • 26
    • 0
    +26
    Interesting was the uncle. He received from the president a full carte blanche for everything that is being done on the subfloor, with a report personally to the president. Personally picked up shots from their lieutenants. He sent all those who got into his business to their American ......... And when they went to the president on his questions, he asked, saying that Rickover said, having heard the answer, answered saying he said so what can I do. What a level it was! Could topple over only the little things. And still the monument was erected to its full small stature.
    1. Lord of the Sith 11 February 2013 17: 51 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      Los Angeles nuclear submarine

      1. Papakiko 11 February 2013 19: 29 New
        • 5
        • 0
        +5
        Well, it’s not for nothing that a small remark is allowed.
        Purely from the point of view of reliability, the Los Angeles have so far set an unbeaten record - for 37 years of active operation on 62 boats of this type there has not been a single serious accident with damage to the reactor core.
        We fleet all the losses from the filing of "sworn friends" raped.
        Extreme example Kursk.
        On January 8, 2005, a boat traveling at 30 knots (≈55 km / h) crashed into an underwater rock. One sailor died, another 23 injured
        55 km / h = 15,2 m / s, gravity is almost 10 m / s. and can reach 40 m / s belay
        Even the scrap after a vertical drop from 15 meters is slightly bent.
        And here is the pipe with partitions !!!
        The coolest scimitar was to curl up and tore off half of the mechanisms from the foundations. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        P3 / 14 is solid! hi
        1. Delta 11 February 2013 23: 57 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          What kind of losses did our fleet have with the filing of someone ??? it would be interesting to know
          1. Witch
            Witch 12 February 2013 17: 44 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Quote: Delta
            it would be interesting to know

            K-129 is believed to have died due to a clash with the US Navy Sordfish submarine, approximately 700 miles northwest of Midway Island. 98 people were killed. The CIA lifted the bow of the submarine in 1974.
            1. Delta 12 February 2013 17: 55 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              Firstly, it has not been proven by anyone, and secondly Papakiko said "EVERYTHING"
              1. old man54 11 August 2013 21: 34 New
                • 0
                • 0
                0
                Quote: Delta
                Firstly, it has not been proven by anyone

                oh, those deletants to me in the Pogoanh of the Navy !!! negative Is it proved, not proved, but what is "proved ??? What did the Passenger Boeing crash at the Pentagon at cruising speed and leave one small hole in the wall of the building, neither human bodies, nor the massages of the massagers scattered, nor the remains of the aircraft? Was everything burned out? laughing Situations on the topic is full!
                1. desava 12 August 2013 18: 31 New
                  • 0
                  • 0
                  0
                  Cases where tiny remains of a plane no larger than a laptop remain, and the bodies are practically absent after the crash of a passenger plane.
    2. nnnnnn
      nnnnnn 12 February 2013 13: 06 New
      • -1
      • 0
      -1
      they have a lieutenant this is our lieutenant captain
      1. komTMG 12 February 2013 14: 44 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        This is why the bathhouse burned down? bully Fleet lieutenant. And the lieutenant captain. It sounds different.
        Our lieutenant and ensign. Well, such a fate for lieutenants. winked
  2. Krsk 11 February 2013 09: 48 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    "Elk" galloped at a gallop stuck into the rock ... Radar and really horooooooosh
  3. Nechai
    Nechai 11 February 2013 10: 47 New
    • 8
    • 0
    +8
    Oleg Kaptsov created the desired precedent. To this day, along with the official designation and name of our weapons, the so-called NATO (American) designation and name have not been applied in our country. And Oleg gives OUR name of their submarine. Such Russian names are probably SEA, but a wide circle of them knows nothing about them ...
    There was such a tale about the Los Angeles nuclear submarine that the amers intentionally allowed our two scouts to "steal" ALL production documentation for its construction. In terms of volume it is from the railway pulman. The calculation was based on the fact that the Russians rushed and this time copy, threaten the means and time. Will remain at the trough. the Yankees were soon expecting a very unpleasant surprise ...
  4. djon3volta
    djon3volta 11 February 2013 10: 54 New
    • -10
    • 0
    -10
    who watched the movie Hunting for Red October? the film was shot in 1990 year.how can you explain this ??? wassat

    1. Delta 11 February 2013 12: 11 New
      • 24
      • 0
      +24
      Do not watch this movie or the like anymore. Submariners singing the USSR anthem in full voice on a submarine are dybilism, which could be removed only in Hollywood. However, I do not want to say that only such films are created there. In the States, they also create beautiful submarines.
      1. djon3volta
        djon3volta 11 February 2013 12: 32 New
        • -3
        • 0
        -3
        Quote: Delta
        Do not watch this movie or the like anymore

        come on, why in 1990 they chose the surname Putin as the KGB officer who inspected the secret nuclear submarines ??? because this is a rare surname, so many simple Russian surnames, and they stumbled on Putin !!! Do you think this is a coincidence ??? request something painfully suspicious coincidence ...
        1. Delta 11 February 2013 13: 03 New
          • 12
          • 0
          +12
          All conspiracy uncovered
          1. djon3volta
            djon3volta 11 February 2013 13: 29 New
            • 1
            • 0
            +1
            I know that in this film I liked that the Russian nuclear submarine was a new development, and the Americans lagged behind in the development of noiselessness and speed.
    2. Zynaps
      Zynaps 11 February 2013 20: 06 New
      • 14
      • 0
      +14
      Well, what can I comment on there? that Clancy's moron, who imagines himself to be the largest expert on the Soviet-Russian Armed Forces, that director Katka Bigelow, for some reason hired and then ignored all the comments of a retired officer of the USSR Navy submarine and removed her Widowmaker vyser in the "I see it" style, still hasn’t they know that in the Russian Navy one-man management is strictly observed and the political commander, like the head of a special department, on a campaign is completely and completely subordinate to the commander. and that intrigues and squabbles are unthinkable in a nuclear-powered naval campaign, as is the betrayal of the commander, who is carefully checked and selected before being appointed commander of an atomic submarine missile carrier. Well this is not treated. only a shot of gasoline in Moscow and subsequent processing into compost will help experts find the missing harmony.
  5. Sirocco 11 February 2013 12: 10 New
    • 13
    • 0
    +13
    These words I liked. What we are missing now The answer of the elderly admiral was simple: there are no secrets, you just need to work with people. Personally communicate with each specialist, immediately remove fools from working with the reactor and expel them from the fleet. All high-ranking officials who, for whatever reason, interfere with the training of personnel in accordance with these principles and sabotage the implementation of my instructions, declare a merciless war and also expel them from the fleet. Ruthlessly “nibble” contractors and engineers. Safety and reliability - these are the main areas of work, otherwise even the most powerful and modern submarines will be drowned in packs in peacetime. That was special to the bone. Looks like our Queen.
  6. gregor6549 11 February 2013 12: 10 New
    • 9
    • 0
    +9
    The author of the article plus for a fairly objective analysis of one of the main weapons systems of the “adversary”. It’s possible, of course, to giggle over the “moose” accident, but this speaks more about the level of training of the commander and crew than about the combat and technical qualities of the boat.
    The USSR also had its own "Swedish Komsomolets, that is, a boat planted due to the navigator’s fault on stones at the very entrance to one of the Swedish skerries (which turned out to be a great international scandal for the USSR). If we talk about the boat as an armament system, then She has many positive qualities. This is low noise and therefore secrecy (which was the Achilles heel of many Soviet nuclear submarines) and the highest reliability and a wide range of weapons and electronic systems, and, very importantly, radiation safety. Therefore, the so-called " amer "was and is something to learn at an o'clock This is the design and construction of nuclear submarines, and in terms of their attitude to smart heads, no matter what nationality the person has at the head and its class affiliation, you see, Sikorsky and Rikovera would do for the benefit of their own, and not someone else's house.
    1. Vladimirets 11 February 2013 17: 31 New
      • 7
      • 0
      +7
      Quote: gregor6549
      Therefore, the so-called "Amer" was and has much to learn about the design and construction of nuclear submarines.

      In general, throwing caps over enemies is not good, but everything and everyone should learn.
      1. Atrix 11 February 2013 19: 12 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Better overestimate the enemy than underestimate
        1. Zynaps
          Zynaps 11 February 2013 20: 08 New
          • 4
          • 0
          +4
          and even better - correctly evaluate the adversary. to avoid distortions.
  7. AlNikolaich 11 February 2013 12: 22 New
    • 5
    • 0
    +5
    Article plus. Great review. I wonder if there are people like Rickover in the states right now. IMHO I doubt. Now will squander his inheritance and all? Jewish boy, from Russia. It's funny how a talented person there, of Russian origin, is Sikorsky, Kharlamov and Davydov (Harley-Davidson), and many others. Apparently there is something in our native land that makes people special.
    1. alex shnajder 12 February 2013 14: 25 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      yeah, for some reason they were not allowed to work and live normally in Russia ..
  8. Delta 11 February 2013 12: 29 New
    • 6
    • 0
    +6
    "... do not fall for receiving a bribe of 67 thousand dollars ..."
    The author, can the studio link to this outrage from Rickover?

    "... A single-shell steel coffin divided into three compartments - any hole will become fatal for him."

    Well, yes, and the lightweight case saves from holes, yeah. Just a kind of "self-tightening" tank

    "... As a result, the Elk cannot fire at full speed ..."

    and who is shooting at full speed?

    "... However, no cool sensors and sonars helped the San Francisco nuclear submarine - on January 8, 2005, a boat traveling at 30 knots (≈55 km / h) crashed into an underwater rock."

    and what are these “cool” sensors telling the submarine the underwater environment besides the active sonar path? a submarine, to get a constantly complete underwater environment, you must constantly keep this path turned on, which crosses out the stealth of the submarine. “Meetings” with underwater objects, touching the ground is not uncommon in any fleet. By the way, if an American survived at a speed of 30 knots after meeting with an underwater rock, then how can we say that any hole will become fatal for her, without a light body?
    1. Santa Fe 11 February 2013 20: 14 New
      • -1
      • 0
      -1
      Quote: Delta
      The author, can the studio link to this outrage from Rickover?

      Navy Secretary John F. Lehman Jr. ordered him censured May 21 for accepting gifts from General Dynamics. while he oversaw ship construction. A Navy Ad Hoc Gratuities Board estimated the value of the gifts at $ 67,628 over a 16-year period.

      Quote: Delta
      Well, yes, and the lightweight case saves from holes, yeah. Just a kind of "self-tightening" tank

      Here, of course, irony is felt. However, there is an opinion that a light body could cushion and reduce the effects of a hydrodynamic shock in a near explosion.

      Quote: Delta
      After meeting with an underwater rock an American survived, how can we say that any hole will become fatal for her, without a light body?

      The nasal extremity was pierced. Lightweight housing is not damaged.
  9. Avenger
    Avenger 11 February 2013 12: 49 New
    • 5
    • 0
    +5
    Only four torpedo tubes located at an angle to the diametrical plane of the hull.

    And why is it suddenly on the "Severodvinsk" suddenly also placed TA at an angle in the diametrical plane? And what about the fact that there are only four devices?

    As a result, the "Elk" can’t shoot at full speed - otherwise the torpedo simply breaks the oncoming flow of water.

    Nonsense! It can very well. By the way, according to your logic, just the same “oncoming water stream” will not allow a torpedo to leave the bow TA of all kinds of “Pike”, “Anteev” and “Typhoons” laughing

    The working depth of the Los Angeles dive is just 250 meters. A quarter of a kilometer - is this really not enough? For comparison, the working depth of the “Pike-B” is 500 meters, the maximum depth is 600!

    The working depth of the Los Angeles dive is 300 m, the maximum is 450 m. But not the great depths of immersion, and not the high speeds of the course distinguish the perfection of submarines, but its stealth. But according to this characteristic, American submarines are unrivaled.

    The main weapon of any submarine is stealth. This parameter contains the entire meaning of the existence of the submarine fleet. Stealth is determined primarily by the level of submarine's own noise. The noise level of Los Angeles-class submarines has not just met world standards. The Los Angeles submarine itself set world standards.

    Well, finally, a sober assessment has appeared.

    the manufacturing quality of third-generation Soviet submarines screws also increased (and their noise level decreased) after a detective story with the purchase of Toshiba high-precision metal-cutting machines. Upon learning of a secret deal between the USSR and Japan, America threw such a scandal that poor Toshiba almost lost access to the US market. Late! On the open spaces of the oceans "Pike-B" with new screws.

    Yeah, that means, if it were not for the desire of the Japanese bourgeoisie to earn an extra couple of millions, then the latest Russian boats would still go with antediluvian propellers and gnash them across the ocean! Glory to the bourgeois greed! Wanting to earn more dough, they will sell their executioner and an ax, and a rope with soap!

    At Los Angeles, everything is much more interesting. American engineers played all-in - from the bow of the boat dismantled all the equipment, including torpedo tubes.

    This was done long before the appearance of the “salmon,” - these were boats of the Thresher and Sturgeon type (by the way, they just couldn’t shoot at full speed, but why was this necessary? After all, it’s 25-30 at the nodes, the boat itself becomes deaf.), it is starting from them on all subsequent boats of the USA, and after them the British, and now also the Russian (pr.885) TA are located in the belly.
    1. Diesel
      Diesel 11 February 2013 12: 58 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      Quote: Avenger
      Yeah, that means, if it were not for the desire of the Japanese bourgeoisie to earn an extra couple of millions, then the latest Russian boats would still go with antediluvian propellers and gnash them across the ocean! Glory to the bourgeois greed! Wanting to earn more dough, they will sell their executioner and an ax, and a rope with soap!


      P * zhezh and provocation, would have found elsewhere or have done it yourself
      1. pavlo007
        pavlo007 12 February 2013 00: 21 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        No, alas :( Precision machine tool construction has always been our sadness, but now we are already forever behind in this.
        1. alexng 12 February 2013 11: 59 New
          • 5
          • 0
          +5
          Don’t rumble. Sevets machine tool industry was always ahead. I tell you this, as a specialist, since I served the electronics of CNC machines before the collapse of the USSR. And there were such machining centers that adversaries even now have not reached that level. Here is a small stick of one of them:
          - case - granite (yes, granite stone);
          - 4 spindle - 96 thousand rpm (air bearings with magnetic fluid);
          - linear coordinate hovercraft engines (essentially an electric motor deployed in a line - flat, not round)
          - almost silent;
          - processing tools - quartz glass;
          - machining accuracy 0,001 mm
          etc.

          Now one thing is bad, is that all machine tool building once worked in cooperation with the now sovereign states, but this is slowly catching up.
          1. lucidlook
            lucidlook 12 February 2013 23: 31 New
            • 1
            • 0
            +1
            “The main contribution to the supply of metalworking machines in the Russian market was made by import. The import share in 2011 was 82% - 673 thousand units. The production share in 2011 was 1% of the supply volume - 5,1 thousand units." (source: "Analysis of the market of metalworking machines in Russia in 2007-2011, forecast for 2012-2016," BusinesStat - 2012.)

            Everyone can draw conclusions himself.
            1. lab29 13 February 2013 00: 22 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              The quality of imported machine tools has noticeably decreased, to the level that they had in the 70-80s, they will not be able to reach it, there are also a lot of sharashniki offices from mechanical engineering, and castings are ordered in China, respectively, no one monitors the observance of technology, about no one recalls the artificial aging of metal, there are strict terms of the contract ...
        2. lab29 13 February 2013 00: 14 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          I saw these machines on the "Zvezdochka", they were absolutely not impressed with anything, like the mechanics of the workshop responsible for their working condition. In general, in the machine-tool bundle, 60% of the manufacturing complexity lies on the tool, here we had problems, as they remained, Sandvik, Iskar, Walter, until we surpass.
          1. alexng 13 February 2013 01: 19 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            A question for filling, and what operations did they carry out? Something I don’t remember breaking.
            1. lab29 13 February 2013 01: 26 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              No one says that they broke. There is simply nothing special that Skoda could not do for example, they did not, now what are they doing? I doubt that they are still on them.
              1. alexng 13 February 2013 02: 07 New
                • 0
                • 0
                0
                You have left the answer. So what were they intended for?
          2. alexng 13 February 2013 01: 29 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Excuse me, what operations did these machines carry out? I don’t remember something that these centers would break.
    2. desava 11 February 2013 13: 20 New
      • 8
      • 0
      +8
      Quote: Avenger
      Nonsense! It can very well. By the way, according to your logic, just the same “oncoming water flow” will not allow a torpedo to leave the bow TA of all kinds of “Pike,” “Anteev,” and “Typhoons”

      The point is not that the incoming flow will not allow the torpedo to exit, but that when firing at an angle at medium and high speeds, the torpedo will skew. The Russian (Soviet submarines) torpedo is informed of the initial speed by compressed air in order to compensate for the incoming flow. The likelihood of a skew when shooting along the axis of the diametrical plane is minimal. But in any case, shooting is carried out at low speeds of the submarine.
  10. postman
    postman 11 February 2013 12: 58 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    She has a good shuttle for a hump:




    1. djon3volta
      djon3volta 11 February 2013 13: 27 New
      • -1
      • 0
      -1
      Quote: Postman
      She has a good shuttle for a hump:

      by the way, in the movie "Hunting for" Red October "," this shuttle is also present on the American submarine! Anyway everything is clear to me ..
  11. Avenger
    Avenger 11 February 2013 13: 28 New
    • 8
    • 0
    +8
    no cool sensors and sonars helped the San Francisco submarine - on January 8, 2005, a boat traveling at 30 knots (≈55 km / h) crashed into an underwater rock. One sailor died, another 23 were injured, and the chic antenna in the bow was smashed to smithereens.

    Everything was much more prosaic.

    The crew of the American submarine San Francisco, which crashed on January 8 of this year, could prevent a collision with an underwater rock, as a result of which the submarine itself was seriously damaged, one crew member was killed and about a hundred were injured. This conclusion is contained in the 124-page report of the US Navy commission, which investigated the circumstances of the accident that occurred during the passage of the submarine from the base on the island of Guam to Australia.

    According to experts,the crew did not pay due attention to the testimony of navigation equipment, which, with a prior warning, recorded an underwater obstacle on the San Francisco path. "Even if a clash was inevitable, the damage from it could be much less. Not to mention the possibility of avoiding the death of a sailor," the report said.

    Recall that the accident occurred on January 8, 2005, about 350 miles south of the island of Guam. San Francisco nuclear submarine crashed into an underwater rock that was not mapped. At that moment, the submarine, on board of which there were 137 people, was moving in underwater position at a speed of 30 knots (56 kilometers per hour).

    The San Francisco nuclear reactor, engine room, and ammunition were not affected by the collision. After the accident, the submarine was able to surface and two days later, under its own power, reached the base.

    Submarine commander Kevin Mooney was subsequently removed from command. Another six crew members were subject to disciplinary action.


    As you see negligence, this is a national trait not only of Russians. Here it is not the crew’s attentiveness, nor the fleet’s command puncture that did not provide the ship with new, updated maps.
    But the location of the huge ASE in the bow of the boat saved the entire crew from the death of the boat along with the boat itself - it worked like a powerful buffer, like a safety cushion. But if such an incident would have occurred with any boat of the Soviet project, then here with a high degree of probability torpedoes could have exploded if they were in the vehicles, and the TA itself would have fallen from their places and then the guaranteed flooding of the 1st compartment.

    Weakness of torpedo weapons "Los Angeles"

    What!? Weakness of torpedo weapons !? Do not make me laugh! On Russian boats, torpedo ammunition ranges from 22 to 36 combat carcasses, so 26 torpedoes are not weak, and another 12 Tomahawk missiles for the “Impedved Los Angeles” and the “weak” ones will be the armament of Russian boats.
    By the way, about the number of TAs. If there are 8 of them on Russian projects, and only four on American ones, this does not mean that "ours is better!" Quite the contrary - the fewer holes in a sturdy case, the better for the strength of the case itself, IMHO of course.

    On the whole, the article, as it were, is not bad, but also not without flaws, so I don’t put either “+” or “-”.
    1. desava 11 February 2013 13: 36 New
      • 6
      • 0
      +6
      Quote: Avenger
      If there are 8 of them on Russian projects, and only four on American ones, this does not mean that "ours is better!"

      I agree with you! But the trouble is not that the PC has to be heavier to execute, but that the salvo of more than 4 torpedoes does not make sense, as the torpedoes will interfere with each other and it is almost impossible to point them.
    2. Delta 11 February 2013 14: 01 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      This is not IMHO, here you are 100% right, because the fewer holes, the stronger the housing
      1. postman
        postman 11 February 2013 16: 33 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Quote: Delta
        This is not IMHO, here you are 100% right, because the fewer holes, the stronger the housing

        It would also be desirable to have a sphere and the absence of mating surfaces (concentrators e.g.
    3. Avenger711
      Avenger711 12 February 2013 15: 49 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      "Tomik" on a submarine with TA is a little insanity ...
  12. postman
    postman 11 February 2013 13: 35 New
    • 11
    • 0
    +11
    Quote: Author
    Single-shell steel coffin, divided into three compartments - any hole will become fatal for him.


    ?


    Transverse partitions should give 5 compartmentsif we consider the ballast tank before the cabin and in front of the bow compartment

    The author forgot about dividing a solid hull along the decks.
    + waterproof decks will give X compartments?


    =======================================

    Description of the submarines of the 971th project, given by a prominent American naval analyst N. Polmar at a hearing in the National Security Committee of the House of Representatives of the US Congress:

    “The advent of D / w / a submarines, as well as other Russian 3rd generation submarines, demonstrated that Soviet shipbuilders closed the noise gap faster than expected.”.

    According to representatives of the U.S. Navy, at operational speeds of the order of 5-7 knots. the noise level of Improved Akula type boats recorded by sonar reconnaissance was less than the noise level of the most advanced US Navy type Improved Los-Angelos submarines.
    According to Admiral D. Burd, Chief of Operations, US Navy: American ships were unable to accompany the Improved Akula nuclear submarines at speeds of less than 6-9 knots (contact with the new Russian boat took place in the spring of 1995 off the east coast of the United States).
    According to the admiral, the advanced Akula-2 nuclear submarine meets the requirements for 4th generation boats in terms of low-noise characteristics.
    The appearance after the end of the Cold War of the Russian fleet of new ultra-concealed nuclear-powered submarines aroused serious concern in the United States. In 1991, this issue was raised in Congress..

    Greenpeace, an international non-governmental environmental organization, has actively joined the campaign to combat Russian submarine shipbuilding, which has actively advocated banning nuclear-powered submarines. (first of all, of course, Russian ones, which, in the opinion of the "greens", pose the greatest environmental danger).
    With the goal of "eliminating nuclear disasters," Greenpeace recommended Western governments to put the provision of financial assistance to Russia depending on the solution of this issue.
    1. politruk419
      politruk419 11 February 2013 18: 07 New
      • 4
      • 0
      +4
      Quote: Postman
      The author forgot about dividing a solid hull along the decks.
      + waterproof decks will give X compartments?

      Is Moose’s interdeck bulkheads completely sealed and equal in strength to the “solid hull” or at least the inter-compartment bulkheads?
      1. postman
        postman 11 February 2013 18: 43 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Quote: politruk419
        But is it possible that Moose’s interdeck bulkheads are completely sealed

        I think so. Somewhere about 7 months ago I met them in a technicals about it.
        And that is reasonable. Or?

        Quote: politruk419
        and equal strength to the “solid body”

        well this is redundant
        Quote: politruk419
        even inter-compartment bulkheads?

        Yes, otherwise, what's the point?
        1. politruk419
          politruk419 11 February 2013 18: 48 New
          • 0
          • 0
          0
          Informative. Live and learn! I'll know..... hi
          1. postman
            postman 11 February 2013 19: 07 New
            • 3
            • 0
            +3
            Quote: politruk419
            Informative. Live and learn! I'll know.....

            Maybe this schematic is useful (for comparison)
        2. 955535 11 February 2013 19: 32 New
          • 4
          • 0
          +4
          Deck decks are not equal in strength to inter-compartment bulkheads, with seeming senselessness there is a sense in this. When sea water enters the compartment, it is required to float to the surface position, or to a safe depth. At a safe depth, strong floorings hold outboard pressure; if necessary, they can be further strengthened by creating back pressure. If deck floorings are made with equal strength bulkheads, this will lead to an increase in the mass of the structure due to the flooring itself, complicating the availability of construction due to strong interdeck glasses for pipelines and cable glands. It is also necessary to imagine how bulky manhole covers will turn out and how it will be “convenient and safe” to open and close them, even if there are damping devices on them. And you will need to walk often. No one canceled the inspection of the compartment once every 1 minutes.
  13. Avenger
    Avenger 11 February 2013 14: 52 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Description of the submarines of the 971th project, given by a prominent American naval analyst N. Polmar at a hearing in the National Security Committee of the House of Representatives of the US Congress:

    "The advent of D / w / a submarines, as well as other 3rd generation Russian nuclear submarines, demonstrated that Soviet shipbuilders closed the noise gap faster than expected."

    Such reports at hearings in Congress are made about one goal - to increase the cost of new developments and, of course, the purchase of new weapons. So it is not surprising that the Americans often “recognize” the superiority of Russian weapons over their own.

    Quote: Delta

    This is not IMHO, here you are 100% right, because the fewer holes, the stronger the housing

    By the way, I have one more consideration for our and their boats: the buoyancy margin in the US is 12-15%, in the Russian 35-45% - this can be seen in the difference between underwater and surface displacement. It would seem: the greater the stock of buoyancy, the better. However, it seems to me that the opposite is true: - with a smaller margin of buoyancy during emergency ascent from ballast tanks, water is displaced much faster, since it is simply less in them. Yes, and emergency immersion, if this happens in modern conditions, also happens faster.
    1. desava 11 February 2013 15: 21 New
      • 8
      • 0
      +8
      On two-hull submarines, the so-called "positional position" when the CBH of the bow and stern groups are full, and the middle is drained. This position allows you to dive much faster. Emergency ascent is mainly provided by the speed and lift generated on the submarine’s hull when the trim changes. A larger buoyancy margin in theory allows a ship with a flooded compartment and two adjacent TsGB from one side to emerge and keep afloat when the PC is damaged.
    2. Delta 11 February 2013 15: 22 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Here we must also remember that the stock of buoyancy in its practical application was not useful. ALL of our boats sank from the surface. And the buoyancy didn’t help
      1. desava 11 February 2013 15: 24 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        I absolutely agree - the statistics are clearly not in favor of a two-body ...
        1. Andrey77 11 February 2013 16: 41 New
          • 5
          • 0
          +5
          Is it a matter of design? Maybe you should do as old Rickover did - to expel all ... the ballast from the submarine fleet in Russia?
          1. avt
            avt 11 February 2013 17: 43 New
            • 4
            • 0
            +4
            Quote: Andrey77
            Is it a matter of design? Maybe you should do as old Rickover did - to expel all ... the ballast from the submarine fleet in Russia?

            And here I agree completely! If you carefully analyze past tragedies on boats. It is striking that many could have been prevented with a competent and responsible Guide.
            1. 955535 11 February 2013 19: 42 New
              • 2
              • 0
              +2
              Not only in the manual, but also in the availability of relevant technical documentation from the designer. On the deceased K-278, better known as Komsomolets, there was no such document as RBITS - a guide for the combat use of technical means. This document has developed recommendations on the actions of the crew in combat and emergency situations., Organizational and technical measures have been developed to combat equipment failures and accidents, including weapon accidents, nuclear accidents, fires, sea water inflows and others.
              Not without rash decisions of the division command - to send a poorly trained second crew to the sea for military service. In the book of Romanov everything is well described.
              1. desava 11 February 2013 19: 50 New
                • 0
                • 0
                0
                Read. Indeed, a quality book. Although some are skeptical of the conclusions presented in the book.
                1. 955535 11 February 2013 19: 58 New
                  • 2
                  • 0
                  +2
                  There is a second, expanded edition of this book. Everything is stated in more detail there. Excerpts and dates of orders for combat training of the division are given regarding the introduction of a second crew into the line, track records of some crew members holding key positions are given. There are even brief descriptions of systems (VVD, immersion and ascent, VTS). For submariners - an invaluable textbook. Our admiral urged everyone to have such a book as a desktop.
                  1. desava 11 February 2013 20: 05 New
                    • 0
                    • 0
                    0
                    I especially liked the fact that excerpts from the logbook are given. Something I forgot - what kind of VTS system?
                    1. 955535 11 February 2013 20: 08 New
                      • 1
                      • 0
                      +1
                      Stationary respiratory system. And I also liked the excerpts from the logbook. Many of the points described there are difficult to explain. Especially the delay with the announcement of an alarm.
              2. avt
                avt 11 February 2013 21: 01 New
                • 0
                • 0
                0
                Quote: 955535
                Not only in the manual, but also in the availability of relevant technical documentation from the designer.

                So this is the direct fault of the leadership. All according to Rickover
              3. Misantrop
                Misantrop 13 February 2013 00: 11 New
                • 2
                • 0
                +2
                Quote: 955535
                Not without rash decisions of the division command - to send a poorly trained second crew to the sea for military service.

                The first crew by this time for more than a year did not get off the board, they were exhausted to the limit. And from the second crew, the ABSOLUTELY unaware of the ship (there was simply no design documentation in the CA), in fact, about 40% remained. According to ALL documents, calling the crew to the sea with more than 10% of the assigned l / s is FORBIDDEN before retaking the tasks. There were 60% (!) And no retake. We gathered a crowd from other projects and drove to the sea for orders for gachalstvo ... A friend survived then, and even then still served, but ... swimming in such water does not work for nothing. He’s been gone a long time ago, although he was several years younger than me ...
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 13 February 2013 00: 23 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          Quote: desava
          statistics are clearly not in favor of a two-body ...
          The statistics just show that Rickover is 100% right that flour ... should not be on board or at headquarters. Then everything will be alright with trouble-free.

          One day I had to go to the exercises on board not at sea. Out of 6 NPP operators, there were three (the other three started serving as lieutenants a week before). And went under two sides. Have you tried to control two installations at once, sitting on a table between the consoles? Fun lesson lol One and a half weeks we were so "festival". Fortunately, nothing happened ...
          And another time, they called me from aboard one of the Project 667A submarines and asked me to send a welder. They started to figure out why, and ... they just got fucked up. Asked to brew rugged case. Crack near the hatch 10 compartment. Moreover, they went to the exercises with this crack and plunged (after a depth of 100 m it was squeezed and the flow stopped). IMHO Rickover would have shot the command for trying to drive a ship into the sea with such a malfunction
          1. Mother russia
            Mother russia 16 February 2013 06: 58 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Quote: Misantrop
            And another time, they called me from aboard one of the Project 667A submarines and asked me to send a welder. They started to figure out why, and ... they just got fucked up. They asked to make a strong case. Crack near the hatch 10 compartment. Moreover, they went to the exercises with this crack and plunged (after a depth of 100 m it was squeezed and the flow stopped).


            Fuck-pound! And what is the command? Understood? I hope the problem has been fixed?
      2. lucidlook
        lucidlook 12 February 2013 23: 39 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Kursk?
  14. politruk419
    politruk419 11 February 2013 15: 33 New
    • 12
    • 0
    +12
    An elk, especially an “improved” one, is a formidable and dangerous adversary. Especially for the deaf from the stern of the "Baton".
    The real "hunter". And most importantly, it is the healthy arrogance of their commanders and the small fuzziness of our crews.
    In addition, there are many of them.
    The boat came out almost perfect for its time. As my first commander S.M.Romaniv said: "Little and ox ... your attack." At the same time, quietly, in an undertone, giving the command to the boatswain to execute K-132 of "crazy Ivan." After that, "Losharik" quickly twirling his ass ... pulled away from sin away. The year 1994 was in the yard.
    1. Andrey77 11 February 2013 16: 50 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      Wonderful boat they did, I must admit. If we take into account that Tomahawks are on them, it is necessary to classify as SSGN. Although created as a purely torpedo ...
  15. Avenger
    Avenger 11 February 2013 16: 52 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: desava
    Emergency ascent is mainly provided by the speed and lift generated on the submarine’s hull when the trim changes.

    And if this speed and lift are not? those. when the boat’s turn is minimal, or does it stop or drift at all, then how does it urgently float, if not by blowing the tanks?



    Quote: politruk419

    An elk, especially an “improved” one, is a formidable and dangerous adversary. Especially for the deaf from the stern of the "Baton".
    The real "hunter". And most importantly, it is the healthy arrogance of their commanders and the small fuzziness of our crews.
    In addition, there are many of them.
    The boat came out almost perfect for its time. As my first commander S.M.Romaniv said: "Little and ox ... your attack." At the same time, quietly, in an undertone, giving the command to the boatswain to execute K-132 of "crazy Ivan." After that, "Losharik" quickly twirling his ass ... pulled away from sin away. The year 1994 was in the yard.

    Are you by any chance not Pokrovsky Alexander? laughing No, not him. You "had 1994 in the yard", and Alexander Pokrovsky was transferred to the reserve in 1991.
    By the way, A. Pokrovsky is one of my favorite writers, and I re-read his works from time to time, so for the soul.
    1. Andrey77 11 February 2013 17: 00 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Pokrovsky is one of my favorite writers. On this topic. Emergency ascent is provided by purging the Central City Hospital on ALL boats of ANY country in the world. The author of the article, as it were, did not know?
    2. politruk419
      politruk419 11 February 2013 17: 01 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      No, I'm not Pokrovsky. I am Kovalenko. But Pokrovsky also revered.
      And as a result of the “veneration,” he made up a certain purely personal opinion about him. Not in favor of Pokrovsky. Although he has a sharp eye and a “light feather”.
      1. Andrey77 11 February 2013 17: 07 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        To the political officers has his tooth? ;)
        1. politruk419
          politruk419 11 February 2013 17: 21 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          And not only. To melt too. Communicated in Sosnovy Bor with his former colleagues. Typical character of a dissident chemist. Although not without talents.
      2. Delta 11 February 2013 17: 09 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        I will assume: you were "deputy"?
        1. Andrey77 11 February 2013 17: 24 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          He was a deputy, deputy head. :) "A jacket".
          1. IgWest
            IgWest 11 February 2013 22: 45 New
            • 2
            • 0
            +2
            Stepan Romaniv’s deputy was Sergey Zebnitsky - a man with a capital letter, a professional. He is still remembered in the 10th division who served with him. They were friends with Romaniv
            1. politruk419
              politruk419 12 February 2013 02: 22 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              So, looking at Sergey Konstantinich, I wanted, for the first time in my life, to become a deputy. Like him!
    3. desava 11 February 2013 18: 15 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      Quote: Avenger
      And if this speed and lift are not? those. when the boat’s turn is minimal, or does it stop or drift at all, then how does it urgently float, if not by blowing the tanks?

      Of course, in this case, they are blown, and for emergency surfacing, Turmaline gas generators should be used. Although I have never heard of a practical application. But, and according to the BBC, the first priority is the course and trim on the stern.
  16. politruk419
    politruk419 11 February 2013 17: 18 New
    • 5
    • 0
    +5
    Awesome cleverness laughing
    Actually, initially, I was the commander of the launch group. And then, after 14 years, five posts and deputy classes. (Modestly hope, not bad!). At least none of the commanders was "removed" (by a setup) from the post. Should I have complexes on this?
    1. Delta 11 February 2013 17: 24 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      why complexes?)))))))))))))) this is just a post. Just in terms of speech, it became clear
      1. politruk419
        politruk419 11 February 2013 17: 31 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        I will regard it as a compliment .......
        Counter-question: 25th Di (kai) PL Pacific Fleet?
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 11 February 2013 19: 47 New
          • 0
          • 0
          0
          Quote: politruk419
          25th Di (kaya) PL TOF?
          I was in my 25th experience only. March 83rd. And then we only transferred boats from our 13th there (after an average repair)
        2. nnnnnn
          nnnnnn 12 February 2013 13: 42 New
          • 0
          • 0
          0
          25th division? crew?
          1. politruk419
            politruk419 12 February 2013 15: 12 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Question to me?
    2. Andrey77 11 February 2013 17: 32 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      You do not need to complex. The deputy politician in our unit was "mine." Just many of your colleagues were not popular in parts. Such a person will not serve on a submarine for long - they will be written off to the political department of the fleet.
  17. Misantrop
    Misantrop 11 February 2013 17: 33 New
    • 6
    • 0
    +6
    What Americans really need to learn from them is the literacy of their submarines. There is a floating crew and a technical crew. The difference is approximately the same as when servicing your car yourself and at the company service station. Hence the majority of the problems of domestic nuclear submarines.

    By the way, the data on the working depths of the immersion of the Americans are frank show-offs. In real life, deeper than 100 m, they fucking when they pop
    1. Delta 11 February 2013 18: 26 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      But should it be deeper? and do our go deeper?
      1. politruk419
        politruk419 11 February 2013 18: 35 New
        • 4
        • 0
        +4
        May 1995 621ek.APKRRK TOF. GWP exercise. Depth 460 meters. K-132.
        It was fun and almost fearless. He was young and stupid. A string across the Granit post was pulled. And then, when it surfaced, it was torn.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 11 February 2013 19: 16 New
        • 9
        • 0
        +9
        Quote: Delta
        But should it be deeper?

        If the Atlantic, then not necessary. But if where we went, then 200 m will not always be a guarantee that you won’t run into an iceberg. The guys from our flotilla once ran into 214 m ... Again, the “jump layer” usually passes through these latitudes below 100 m depth. So 200 m was the standard diving depth. Well, the tales of “freezing without a move” will be left to writers and journalists. It’s possible to differentiate, it’s not a question, only any movement (including a fighter from bow to stern (or vice versa) will bring down the trim settings. extreme necessary, no one ever “freezes”. They trim so that the boat is a little “light”, give a couple of degrees of trim on the nose to compensate for spontaneous ascent. Then, in the event of an emergency loss of course, the nuclear submarine will not fail, but will emerge. Well, blowing ballast at a working depth is stupid and wasted stock of VVD (which then will need to be replenished with long-term operation of the compressors (which also does not add stealth). Therefore, not for show-offs, but in real life, they all come up with a stroke, trim and rudders, but are already blown at the same time, the consumption of VVD is several times less.

        As for the ascent in the ice - also more show off for the press. Not with their tin cases under the ice to meddle lol . The photo above is not ice, ice starts from a meter lol BDRM could break the hull when surfacing up to 5 m, the American with such an attempt to flatten the cabin request
        1. postman
          postman 11 February 2013 21: 07 New
          • 0
          • 0
          0
          Quote: Misantrop
          The photo above is not ice, ice starts from a meter

          For the sake of interest: aren't they really "breaking" undermining? It is a ramming cabin?
          It’s not aesthetically pleasing ....
          It would be more logical: I charged in a TA that a thread such as goVNo, which does not sink, but pops up, or (or just squeezed it)., Popped up under the ice arch, delayed blasting, dipped to a safe, blasted ... and pop into wormwood.
          Something like this request
          1. 955535 11 February 2013 21: 37 New
            • 4
            • 0
            +4
            Quote: Postman
            It is a ramming cabin?
            Ramming is in Hollywood films about K-19 and the like. It's funny, but people believe. In fact, the ice breaks down by the upper part of the fencing and not by ramming, but by extrusion. Due to the extremely low vertical speed and static impact ..
            Quote: Postman
            dug off to safe, undermining ... and spit out in the wormwood.

            The search for ready-made wormwood and the positioning of the ship for ascent relative to the wormwood can take a long time, and there is such a firework.
            1. postman
              postman 11 February 2013 22: 33 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              Quote: 955535
              It's funny, but people believe.

              I, too, have little faith in dynamic shock.
              WANTING TO WRITE:
              March 17, 1959 - American submarine SSN-578 "Skate", breaking through the ice layersurfaced at the North Pole.


              It looks like a wormwood here:

              And here it seems not:





              spent time on contact (promised in the ice), but here it turned out not in the ice:
              [media = http: //vk.com/video3956652_162400668? hd = -1 & t =]

              Quote: 955535
              Searches for ready-made wormwood

              not ready, but "done" by ourselves (undermining)
              And so:
              A window is an unsteady term adopted to refer to areas of young ice covering the surface with wormwood, stains and canals. The window is clearly visible through the periscope. It stands out as a bright spot on a darker background of the rest of the surface, covered with thick pack ice.

              July 30, 1958 "Skate" went on an Arctic campaign, becoming the second after the "Nautilus" American submarine, held at the North Pole and the first submarine in the world to sail on it. For this trip, the ship received the Navy Unit Commendation Award.
              1. 955535 11 February 2013 22: 39 New
                • 3
                • 0
                +3
                Arrange subversions, and then look for the resulting wormwood is unreasonable. Finding a wormwood, even made with the help of a blast, is extremely difficult. The boat is not a car (pulled away, blew up, pulled up). It is also necessary to take into account the ice drift factor and the presence of underwater currents. It is also worth remembering that you have to work almost blindly, although there are several cameras on the hull pointing up. And here also with an explosion to attract the enemy.
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 11 February 2013 23: 38 New
                  • 0
                  • 0
                  0
                  Quote: 955535
                  you have to work almost blindly, although there are several cameras on the hull of the boat pointing up

                  Our NOC and NOR systems worked well
            2. sanek45744 11 February 2013 22: 37 New
              • 2
              • 0
              +2
              yes, frosting is a fun lesson) I remember how at my combat post it was necessary to open 2 valves urgently and what did they have on both sides! how many RB I tore how many times my elbows (left) horror but fun))))))))))))
              1. 955535 11 February 2013 22: 43 New
                • 1
                • 0
                +1
                45744 - familiar in \ h, 114th :)
                1. sanek45744 11 February 2013 22: 49 New
                  • 0
                  • 0
                  0
                  exactly the 114th)))
                  1. 955535 11 February 2013 22: 58 New
                    • 1
                    • 0
                    +1
                    She’s Tula.
                    1. sanek45744 11 February 2013 23: 19 New
                      • 0
                      • 0
                      0
                      She is darling)))) The 14th pier, it seems to me)
                      1. 955535 11 February 2013 23: 25 New
                        • 1
                        • 0
                        +1
                        8th pier, ceremonial. The animals on the distant piers did not stand.
                      2. sanek45744 11 February 2013 23: 53 New
                        • 0
                        • 0
                        0
                        I don’t know how it used to be, but just at the 8th pier the animals didn’t stand even once when I served !!! and it’s 14! if it were 8 then the island would be completely visible from behind and with the strait would be from the right and then from the left !
                      3. 955535 12 February 2013 07: 39 New
                        • 0
                        • 0
                        0
                        The fact that this is pier 8 is for sure. The picture was taken by KJ in early February 2006. I remember this sunny day very well.
                      4. sanek45744 12 February 2013 09: 53 New
                        • 0
                        • 0
                        0
                        yes not 8 it’s a pier !! memory definitely brings you !!! but in my photo there’s exactly 8 pier and in your photo 14 pier! remember better!
      3. postman
        postman 11 February 2013 22: 52 New
        • 3
        • 0
        +3
        Quote: 955535
        this is in Hollywood films about K-19 and the like.

        The same thing is hard to believe in dynamic impact. But write:
        In the book of the American journalist N. Polmer, there is a photograph of the atomic submarine Sargo, which emerged from under the Arctic ice thickness 122 cm. This is evidence about ability submarines punch annual ice and float to the ice position or under the deckhouse.

        July 30, 1958 "Skate" went on an Arctic campaign, becoming the second after the "Nautilus" American submarine, held at the North Pole and the first submarine in the world to sail on it. For this trip, the ship received the Navy Unit Commendation Award.


        K-320: They began negotiations, congratulating the crew on the successful completion of the task. The eldest on board is Rear Admiral E.D. Chernov, Hero of the Soviet Union. He said that they’re okay, they popped up in the wormwood 200 miles from the edge of the ice, ice in the wormwood was 20 cm thick, the thickness of the ice to the edge was 5-7 m.

        Project 613 in the Arctic ice.


        Quote: 955535
        Finding ready-made wormwood and positioning

        I actually mean "man-made" wormwood.
        from the Soviet N-169 aircraft on March 2-3, 1941, in the area of ​​the “pole of relative inaccessibility”, ice-holes were observed up to 500 m wide and up to 18 km long; occasionally came across vast expanses of pure water up to 10 km wide and up to 45 km long.

        A window is an unsteady term adopted to refer to areas of young ice covering the surface with wormwood, stains and canals. Window clearly visible in the periscope. It stands out as a bright spot. against a darker background of the rest of the surface, covered with thick pack ice.

        echo-meter?

        (promised from under the ice, but still interesting)
        http://vk.com/video3956652_162400668?hd=-1&t=
        ================================================== =======
        Skate (SSN-578), at the North Pole, 1962./ the ice is clearly fresh /
        1. 955535 11 February 2013 22: 56 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          Ascent to wormwood in the summer.
          1. Kars 11 February 2013 23: 21 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            _________________
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 12 February 2013 00: 07 New
          • 2
          • 0
          +2
          Quote: Postman
          This indicates the ability of submarines to break through annual ice and float to an icy position or under the deckhouse.

          Here is a photo for you. US nuclear submarine on an even keel, that's just the cabin is slightly sideways ... lol
          I wonder how much it will bend when you try to punch ice? wassat
          1. postman
            postman 12 February 2013 00: 37 New
            • 0
            • 0
            0
            Quote: Misantrop
            Here is a photo for you.

            Not for me! To the authors.

            Quote: Misantrop
            that's just chopping slightly on one side ..


            Is it really not clear the accident, or rather the accident what
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 12 February 2013 10: 40 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              Quote: Postman
              Is it really not clear the accident, or rather the accident

              Well, yes, the consequences of a collision with the far from the largest surface ship. And if you consider that the mass of the ice field exceeds the mass of the ship tens (if not thousands) times, and its strength is higher, then the consequences collision it’s not difficult to imagine with him ... what
      4. politruk419
        politruk419 12 February 2013 02: 30 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Extreme "Jokes" of the northerners))))))) We use Batons at the Pacific Fleet for this. Very rarely. In my memory only a couple of times .... impressive !!!!!!
      5. Mother russia
        Mother russia 16 February 2013 07: 09 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Hello! hi
        Beauties! You are lucky, of course, to serve such a beauty!
        The stunning beauty of the boat these BDRMki! You get a direct aesthetic pleasure when you look at them.
        What a brilliant designer was Sergey Nikitich Kovalev, who laid in his boats a huge modernization potential. Kingdom to him is heaven.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 11 February 2013 23: 36 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: Postman
      It would be more logical: charged in TA, that the thread is such as goVNo

      And then you write it off, making out a bunch of papers lol It is clear that in the case of an order to use weapons, no one will bother with a long search for wormwood. But in peacetime, spend military torpedoes on it ... wink
  18. 955535 11 February 2013 22: 07 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    I personally observed the operation of the stabilization system without running for several days. Works fine. I did not even have to cancel the construction of combat shifts for divorce. This is about "journalistic tales" about freezing without a move. Automation copes ..
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 11 February 2013 23: 49 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: 955535
      I personally observed the operation of the stabilization system without running for several days. Works fine.

      And this depends on the configuration of specific systems of a particular ship. Our self-propelled guns kept the reactor power at 2% power. I have never seen anything like this on any ship of the division (at less than 5% it began to build up, followed by a fall in AZ). And according to the passport can’t keep less than 18%.
      Quote: 955535
      Automation copes ..

      Ever heard how this mode “sounds” from the side? Pumping out of equalization is a rather noisy task. The distillation of water between the differential ones is quieter, but it also gives quite characteristic noises. So, without emergency (checking the system, etc.), no one will do this
      1. 955535 12 February 2013 13: 37 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        On single-shaft single-reactor boats, the staging at the CBSS is a rather ordinary event - if there are any leaks or soaring: exit to the RGRM and troubleshooting in the stabilization mode without running. On multipurpose boats, the stabilization system is autonomous, is almost not tied to a drainage system, it has its own stabilization system pumps, and GONs are not involved.
  19. Delta 12 February 2013 00: 02 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    So after all, and Americans go under the ice. And they started us before. So they have the same depths
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 12 February 2013 00: 38 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Quote: Delta
      So they have the same depths

      Is this statement based on anything? To start earlier, to make several targeted trips is the same thing, that to serve there constantly? Under the edge of the ice field you can ride 50 meters, you won’t catch
  • Black 11 February 2013 17: 36 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    Quote: politruk419
    giving the command to the boatswain for the execution of K-132 "crazy Ivan."

    Is it possible in more detail? - how is it? winked
    1. politruk419
      politruk419 11 February 2013 17: 44 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      This is very careful and not rushing anywhere !!!!!. One line of the shaft forward, the second back. And smoothly shift the RAG "on board". However, the boatswain with the commander knows better. Especially the boatswain. Well, the messengers, take care of the dishes !!!! laughing
      1. 955535 11 February 2013 20: 52 New
        • 3
        • 0
        +3
        Quote: politruk419
        And smoothly shift the RAG "on board".
        Maybe all the same vertical aboard? Or did you have separate feather management for the RAG?
        1. politruk419
          politruk419 11 February 2013 21: 08 New
          • 0
          • 0
          0
          Thanks for the amendment. Of course vertical. Described ...... remembering dashing youth fool
          1. Akhtuba73 12 February 2013 00: 10 New
            • 2
            • 0
            +2
            Here are the guys specials! You read and regret that you are not 15 years old, otherwise you would have chopped off a dream in your nose and would have pulled it off ... albeit hard and scary, but pride in such a service ... Thank you for the efforts of the military, I say without an ulcer ... Thanks YOU my children do not pray on the striped.
            1. alex popov
              alex popov 12 February 2013 15: 28 New
              • 0
              • 0
              0
              Quote: Akhtuba73
              Thank you for the work of the military, I say without an ulcer ... Thanks to YOU, my children do not pray for the striped-striped.

              +1 And thanks from me!)
  • gregor6549 11 February 2013 18: 05 New
    • 4
    • 0
    +4
    I will add another 5 kopecks to the piggy bank of opinions. Speaking about American nuclear submarines, one must remember that each of them has the ability to exchange information in real time with a branched automated system for monitoring the surface and underwater conditions of the US Navy, which includes the well-known SOSUS system, as well as various means of detecting and tracking underwater and surface targets on ships, airplanes, helicopters and satellites (radars, sonars, sonar buoys, infrared sensors, magnetometers, etc.) / This allows the submarine to minimize the use of tion of its assets in an active mode, and thus increase the stealth ..
    The Americans also carry out significant work on dynamic additional reconnaissance and coordinate adjustment of targets, which makes it possible to use Tomahawk-type missiles installed on nuclear submarines not only against stationary (ground) targets but also as anti-ship missiles against surface and underwater targets. Those. having a fairly old underwater platform, the Americans manage to constantly increase its combat effectiveness
    1. Delta 11 February 2013 18: 13 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      The SOSUS system does not work on-line, i.e. the data recorded from its sensors are first processed in the center, all unnecessary noises, the natural noise of the sea, its inhabitants and so on are removed and only then what is needed can be distinguished. In particular, the noise of submarines.
      1. gregor6549 11 February 2013 18: 24 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Naturally, in such systems, primary information about the goals is first processed, filtered, grouped, etc., and only then issued to users. Otherwise, they simply choke in a stream of false alarms. And all these processing processes are executed in real time, and not online. Just a real-time scale for each processing level.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 11 February 2013 19: 23 New
          • 3
          • 0
          +3
          Quote: gregor6549
          This allows the nuclear submarines to minimize the use of their assets in active mode, which means to increase stealth ..
          ... in the water position laughing Only ADD (with a half-wave length of about one and a half kilometers) pass under the surface of the water. You can transmit a combat control signal (permission to start), but not a bunch of coded nishtyakov. If you want communication and other goodies, pop up or release a towed or other antenna. And in the presence of a normal satellite grouping of stealth, you can wave the handle lol
    2. Black 11 February 2013 18: 42 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      "This is not a trifle, my friend Bitner !!! This is far from a trifle !!!"
  • Fiji
    Fiji 11 February 2013 18: 56 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    There is a clear analogy with the World 2 Junkers 87 dive. useless speed, bad aerodynamics - but what is the effectiveness !!!
    It seems that you should not combine all the best for an excellent result.
    1. Delta 11 February 2013 19: 20 New
      • 2
      • 0
      +2
      hardly such an analogy is appropriate. "Los Angeles" are devoid of such shortcomings. Yu-87 was a success in the years 40-41, then they began to bring down. "Los Angeles" for many years remains an effective weapon. NOT invincible, but still very effective. And, importantly, relatively inexpensive
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 11 February 2013 19: 30 New
        • 0
        • 0
        0
        Quote: Delta
        "Los Angeles" for many years remains an effective weapon. NOT invincible, but still very effective. And, importantly, relatively inexpensive

        Those. an excellent example of military equipment for peaceful time. As, however, almost the entire US submarine fleet. When they EXACTLY know that no matter how rude they are, NO ONE will risk drowning them for it
  • balamut_x
    balamut_x 11 February 2013 19: 45 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    USS Toledo SSN-769



    http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/2009/05/uss-toledo-ssn-769/
    1. politruk419
      politruk419 11 February 2013 20: 54 New
      • 3
      • 0
      +3
      The steering Garcia (second photo from above) is purely our Tatar! "Cossack"?
      And not one "African American" stupid, which is characteristic ....
      Yes, they are terry racists there, go!
      1. Papakiko 11 February 2013 22: 11 New
        • 4
        • 0
        +4
        Who does the “fuel oil” trust to manage such a curious equipment? belay
        Only to the service staff.
        It’s in the Films they have the captains of the Premier League and CVN there are “shoe polish”. soldier
        Sometimes they fall into frames and such.

        Who allowed this?
        "Gentlemen" by any more in their ranks. wink



        Even on cockades of berets, sexual and racial stratification is indicated. wink
        1. 955535 11 February 2013 22: 15 New
          • 1
          • 0
          +1
          The Americans will soon serve women. Two dozen candidates are already preparing.
          1. Thunderbolt 11 February 2013 22: 19 New
            • 5
            • 0
            +5
            Quote: 955535
            Two dozen candidates are already preparing.
            Candidates for women? laughing
            1. 955535 11 February 2013 22: 33 New
              • 3
              • 0
              +3
              The women are real, but judging by some photos, they are worse than the nuclear threat. Or maybe everything is as planned?
              1. Thunderbolt 11 February 2013 22: 59 New
                • 0
                • 0
                0
                Some will give any head start, but the Amazons in a submarine, for example, ---- bust)))
                1. 955535 12 February 2013 18: 21 New
                  • 1
                  • 0
                  +1
                  In the photo there are babies from New Zealand. By the way, they have been serving women on boats for a long time. Now I understand why laughing No one will be too long even after a couple of months.
      2. Avenger
        Avenger 12 February 2013 00: 59 New
        • 2
        • 0
        +2
        Quote: politruk419

        The steering Garcia (second photo from above) is purely our Tatar! "Cossack"?
        And not one "African American" stupid, which is characteristic ....
        Yes they are terry racists there, go

        So you didn’t look at this link:

        http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/2009/05/uss-toledo-ssn-769/

        ... they are there
  • Civil 11 February 2013 20: 13 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    well, we are waiting for an article about Sia Wolfe
  • dmn2
    dmn2 11 February 2013 20: 48 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    Quote: djon3volta
    who watched the hunt for Red October? the film was shot in 1990. how can you explain this ???


    there is such a thing: egregional-matrix control. If interested - a search engine to help. In a nutshell do not explain.
  • Kuryanin 11 February 2013 21: 13 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    In America, as always: a native of Russia and a Jew. If not for our Jews, where would this America be? And the article is good, the comments are also excellent, I learned a lot of new and interesting things. Thank you.
    1. Geisenberg 11 February 2013 23: 36 New
      • 1
      • 0
      +1
      Our Jews? Ours are generally Russian, if Th;)
      1. Kuryanin 12 February 2013 00: 16 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Quote: Geisenberg
        Our Jews? Ours are generally Russian, if Th;)

        Our Jews are ours, living with us for centuries. And even if Russia is a multinational country. And learn to spell the word Russian correctly, but it seems that you yourself are non-Russian.
    2. Santa Fe 12 February 2013 17: 09 New
      • 0
      • 0
      0
      Quote: Kuryanin
      If not for our Jews, where would this America be?

      This is the whole joke.))) The USA is not so much a geography as a political system and the people who sent the nafig to their princes, counts and "national leaders" went overseas and agreed to live by their own rules. It turned out, I must say, wonderful.

      The USA could be formed anywhere - even in India, now there would be "US" with the same population and state system
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 12 February 2013 22: 09 New
        • 1
        • 0
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        the political system and the people who sent nafig their princes, counts and "national leaders" went overseas and agreed to live by their own rules. It turned out, I must say, wonderful.

        So what prevents you from doing the same and joining this "holiday of life"? Or do the princes not give? wassat
  • 955535 12 February 2013 22: 03 New
    • 2
    • 0
    +2
    Bears and we met.
  • lucidlook
    lucidlook 12 February 2013 23: 10 New
    • 1
    • 0
    +1
    San Francisco nuclear submarine - January 8, 2005, a boat sailing at 30 knots (≈55 km / h) crashed into an underwater rock.


    According to the results of the campaign, the crew of the Underwater Rock is presented for state awards. wink
  • Shoma-1970
    Shoma-1970 13 February 2013 02: 24 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    So that their ships become similar, as in the photo above !!! "Peacekeepers" s!
  • Usher 4 December 2017 20: 20 New
    • 0
    • 0
    0
    Judging by the pattern, Moose TA is in the bow, and not from the sides. I usually imagined, from the sides at an angle, this is near the wheelhouse i.e. almost in the center of the case. And here ahead. Is it exactly Elk?