Repeat call for the "new wave of Russians"

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Russian news agencies have spread information that an additional mechanism is being discussed in the Ministry of Defense, which will solve the problem of the systematic shortage of recruits. This mechanism can be the recruitment of young people of military age who received Russian citizenship into the Russian army, and before they received it, they managed to serve in conscription service in the state from which they arrived in the Russian Federation. In other words, if a person has decided to change any of his citizenship to Russian, while at the same time at the age of conscription, then Russia can call this person for urgent service, even if he has already passed it abroad in due time.

This method had both supporters and opponents. In this material we present the arguments of those and others.

A supporter of the idea of ​​re-drafting for "new Russians" is a member of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation, Alexander Kanshin. In the joint venture of the Russian Federation, he holds the post of chairman of the Commission on problems of national security and socio-economic conditions of life of military personnel, members of their families and veterans. In his opinion, the idea of ​​recruiting into the Russian army those who received a Russian passport and had already managed to serve in their homeland is reasonable. He compares the new Russian version with the Israeli one, recalling that all those who receive Israeli citizenship have to start their lives literally from scratch: all previous merits, including militarily, are often simply ignored by Israel’s authorities. by actually pushing a person to prove himself in a new homeland. According to Alexander Kanshin, the same practice could be introduced by Russia.

At the same time, supporters of the idea of ​​re-drafting agree that it would be nice to consider not to appeal to young people who received a Russian passport if they did military service, for example, in the army of one of the CSTO states. Thus, it is emphasized that the members of such a structure as the Collective Security Treaty Organization, militarily perform similar tasks in the spirit of ensuring the security of the borders of the signatory states.

It should be emphasized that today with only one state that is part of the CSTO, there is an agreement that there should be no precedent for the so-called re-conscription. Speech in this case is about Tajikistan. However, there is another state with which Russia has a similar agreement, and which is not part of the CSTO. This is Turkmenistan. In all other cases, the possibility of re-calling when changing citizenship or obtaining a second citizenship is not yet regulated.

The point of view of the opponents of the new initiative of the Ministry of Defense of Russia is as follows. In their opinion, the new version of the law “On Military Duty and Military Service” may in one way or another frighten off young men of military age who have already served in the army abroad, and now want to become Russian citizens and get jobs in Russia. This may lead to the fact that the very young qualified specialists, about the involvement of which the representatives of the Russian authorities are talking about in the country, can abandon the idea of ​​obtaining a Russian passport. After all, the desire to re-serve is not the whole of persons of military age who are seeking Russian citizenship.

To understand what is more - the advantages or disadvantages of the new initiative, coming from the main military department of the country, it is necessary to deal with the immigration issue. In other words, it is necessary to clarify the number of persons who have recently received a passport of a citizen of Russia - immigrants from other states. Thus, it will be possible to make a picture: what kind of state can become a real “donor” of draftees for the Russian army and can it.

If we consider the statistics of obtaining Russian citizenship by people from foreign countries for the last year, the following picture emerges. Russian citizenship or residence permit (official statistical services summarize both of these figures) received almost 30 thousand immigrants from Uzbekistan, 20 thousand - from Kyrgyzstan, 15 thousand - from Armenia, about 9 thousand from Azerbaijan, 5 thousand - from Georgia, about 2 thousand - from the Baltic states, about 1,5 thousand - from Turkmenistan and Tajikistan.
Experts explain the relatively low number of people who received a Russian passport or residence permit from Tajikistan and Turkmenistan by the fact that the majority of people from these former Soviet Republics (especially Russians by nationality) who were seeking to obtain a passport of a Russian citizen, arrived in Russia from 1992 to 2007 years

If we talk about the statistics of persons who received Russian citizenship or residence permit for the last year, in relation to the countries of so-called foreign countries, here China holds the first place (about 3 thousand people), Germany (about 1,9 thousand) holds the second place.

The statistics of Russian citizenship in recent years in Kazakhstan and Ukraine suggests that residents of these countries are less than before seeking to obtain Russian citizenship. The reasons are from “all who need it, have come a long time” to the improvement of the economic situation in these republics.

Let us return, however, to the “re-appeal” for the “new Russians”. The total figures for citizenship of Russia (not a residence permit) for the year are no more than 50-55 thousand people. How many of them are young people of draft age? Official statistics, unfortunately, does not yet provide such data. But we can assume that no more than a third, that is, about 15-18 thousands. If we take into account that from these young people we can safely deduct those who cannot serve for health reasons, at least 10-15 percent, and also deduct those who served in the armies of the CSTO member states, then it is far from the most impressive number of potential "recruits". At best, no more than 4-5 thousands. These calculated calculations, of course, do not claim to be the ultimate truth, but the real number of those whom the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation can call into the Russian army, if there is more, is clearly not much.

What happens? And it turns out that the initiative to re-appeal for those who have received a Russian passport, deserves attention, but it will not solve the problems with our time to take root in the shortage of recruits. Is that in some, say, a local version. But with local options is also difficult. After all, today the state deliberately limits the call-up for military service of residents of some North Caucasian republics for a variety of reasons. Does it not turn out that for the “new Russians” it will be necessary to consider something similar at the legislative level.

In general, the initiative with a repeated appeal, with all its external logic, has a lot of pitfalls that the Ministry of Defense should take into account.
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  1. +4
    11 February 2013 08: 54
    How to modernize hazing? Soon, in all parts of the Russian army soldier
    Now, it’s sure that everyone is mowing, rather than serving in such chaos.
    1. +5
      11 February 2013 10: 27
      Quote: RedDragoN
      Now, it’s sure that everyone is mowing, rather than serving in such chaos.

      Now what are they doing?
      Now almost every law firm is ready to tell you for a nominal fee how to evade the army in an official way, and this is not prosecuted in any way - although evading military service is a crime. As long as nicknames like "green men", "warriors", etc. will be permissible, while the fate of the army and navy will be decided by people ABSOLUTELY NEVER not serving while at the forefront BABLO - There will be no respect and honor for the sun!
      1. +1
        11 February 2013 15: 04
        Quote: RedDragoN
        Now, it’s sure that everyone is mowing, rather than serving in such chaos.

        It’s a pity that there were already 1/5 of deviators (see top post), but it’s also pleasing that there are more people who want to serve than to slope. soldier
    2. sashka
      +5
      11 February 2013 10: 47
      There will be migrant workers and homeless people .. For food .. In "SUCH" Army you don't need to go or walk .. Previously, the girls asked, "Did you serve in the Army?" It sounded proudly .. Now, absolutely the opposite .. Otmazalsya means "cool". .And the money of Abramovich and Berezovsky who will defend. ?? Mercenaries ??? So they won't spare us either .. Glory Pu !! ??
      1. 0
        11 February 2013 14: 57
        I don’t understand, to be honest, what is it about?

        If it’s about the real possible protection of Russia's interests, then if the people are trained even in Kazakhstan, even in Ukraine, he will cope with this anyway. The question here is how he wrote it in his head.

        Agree that in the case of a local troubles, the army is unlikely to be able to count on people from those regions. Not?

        But we are talking about "plugging holes" in the draft, apparently. Compare with Israel? Well, well ... Ridiculous.

        And we will have the Chinese army, apparently.
  2. +5
    11 February 2013 08: 55
    On the one hand, it seems correct. Indeed, the law of the Russian Federation clearly spells out that a citizen should serve and so on ... But how will this be in practice? Yes, and I do not think that people from Central Asia are needed in the army, the current one, let's not take the Union and not give examples - another state.
    1. Kaa
      +5
      11 February 2013 09: 54
      Quote: klimpopov
      and I don’t think that people from Central Asia are needed in the army, the current

      You won’t get into trouble. There is an old proven Soviet method - 18 years old - do your duty, even if you study at the institute (without a military department). And this is according to 2009-2010 3 million 280 thousand people! Go to college, serve in the army - and again to study, in the mid-80s EMNIP this already happened, not for long. The truth.
      1. +4
        11 February 2013 10: 10
        True position, Kaa.
        Quote: Kaa
        Go to college, serve in the army - and again to study, in the mid-80s EMNIP this already happened, not for long. The truth.

        Itself went through this, although there was a military department, but at that time they did not pay attention to it.
      2. +12
        11 February 2013 11: 57
        Today I made 85 calls to the registry of the children's clinic. Of these, 81 is busy (off-hook), 3 no one answered, and they answered 85. Something the motherland (represented by the state) is in no hurry to pay its debt - I pay taxes regularly.
        1. -1
          11 February 2013 12: 00
          Quote: zvereok
          Today I made 85 calls to the registry of the children's clinic.

          Wasn’t it easier to go?
          1. 0
            11 February 2013 12: 35
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Today I made 85 calls to the registry of the children's clinic.

            Wasn’t it easier to go?


            I read on the forum that half of the doctors on sick leave, you come to your own, they redirect to a stranger whose turn is three hours ahead. I wanted to clarify if my doctor is sick, and if so, when to come.

            This is the case if after 9 you call 85 the call was reacted. And if from 8 to 9, when doctors write down which patients to go to - the last half year ended with "Alo, you can't be heard" from any phones.

            By the way, there was information (I don’t know if), that doctors were either with 15 or 17. Clinics will be taken without internship soon. Such are the experiments on the people.
          2. +3
            11 February 2013 13: 37
            Easier to make a normal registry and call center
          3. +5
            11 February 2013 13: 44
            Maybe it’s easier, only he has the right to call and get an answer. At least it should be
          4. Hon
            +1
            11 February 2013 23: 01
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Wasn’t it easier to go?

            Well, if it's easier to go, then let the migrant workers in the army gain.
        2. +1
          11 February 2013 12: 36
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Today I made 85 calls to the registry of the children's clinic.

          Wasn’t it easier to go?


          I read on the forum that half of the doctors on sick leave, you come to your own, they redirect to a stranger whose turn is three hours ahead. I wanted to clarify if my doctor is sick, and if so, when to come.

          This is the case if after 9 you call 85 the call was reacted. And if from 8 to 9, when doctors write down which patients to go to - the last half year ended with "Alo, you can't be heard" from any phones.

          By the way, there was information (I don’t know if), that doctors were either with 15 or 17. Clinics will be taken without internship soon. Such are the experiments on the people.
          1. +1
            11 February 2013 17: 57
            So I just came from the hospital. The doctor was more than an hour late because he was sent not only to his patients to walk, but also to the neighboring site. I wanted to do the head thrashing - it is not there. In general, I spent 3 hours in line, not counting the road back and forth.
            1. Bismark
              +1
              11 February 2013 22: 21
              Most doctors in hospitals are on a half-rate basis and receive their main income in private clinics in which they work part-time.
        3. +2
          11 February 2013 13: 52
          The other day I came across a doctor’s attitude towards work. It was about a newborn baby. I also got impressions.
          I do not care that they have a small salary or they get tired ... but I don’t get tired? You can’t work, quit. They often behave so arrogant ...
      3. s1н7т
        +1
        11 February 2013 13: 50
        Quote: Kaa
        Go to college, serve in the army - and again to study, in the mid-80s EMNIP this already happened, not for long. The truth.

        And that was right !!!
      4. vilenich
        +2
        11 February 2013 22: 48
        Quote: Kaa
        Go to university, serve in the army - and again to study, in the mid-80s EMNIP this already happened

        And by the way, wonderful guys came, literate with the initiative, including and immigrants from Central Asia and the Caucasian republics.
    2. 0
      11 February 2013 18: 20
      If you do not take the Union as an example, m. to do something like the Russian Foreign Legion? If you want to become a citizen, sign a contract! Served without "flying" - get it! Injured - get it ahead of schedule! Alternatives - double-triple the required service time! Well, like that, somehow ...
  3. +8
    11 February 2013 08: 56
    make the army mandatory for all, deprive the right to elect and be elected and hold public office. without military service. unsuitable for health give 2 years of life in alternative service ... and in general was born a kid, get ready for the army ...
    1. +5
      11 February 2013 09: 02
      So it seems so. Not? Another question is that laws must be followed ...
      1. 0
        11 February 2013 12: 09
        Then Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Today I made 85 calls to the registry of the children's clinic.

        Wasn’t it easier to go?


        I read on the forum that half of the doctors on sick leave, you come to your own, they redirect to a stranger whose turn is three hours ahead. I wanted to clarify if my doctor is sick, and if so, when to come.

        This is the case if after 9 you call 85 the call was reacted. And if from 8 to 9, when doctors write down which patients to go to - the last half year ended with "Alo, you can't be heard" from any phones.

        By the way, there was information (I don’t know if), that doctors were either with 15 or 17. Clinics will be taken without internship soon. Such are the experiments on the people.
    2. 0
      11 February 2013 10: 52
      But is it necessary? Use the whip to drive into this army the guys who for the year and the horn are not used properly. Therefore, they mow everything.
    3. +1
      11 February 2013 12: 00
      Well, future deputies will buy money and communications for Dad’s, military books or snowdrops.
    4. imperiologist
      +2
      11 February 2013 14: 18
      then the ovskie shit democrats will cry out that we have again the Stalinist regime
      1. Hon
        +2
        11 February 2013 23: 13
        Quote: imperiolist
        then the ovskie shit democrats will cry out that we have again the Stalinist regime

        Something patriots in our army in the afternoon with fire can not be found laughing Au patriot, where are you? Probably the whole country on state. Dep works, solid spies and traitors))
  4. Vdr
    Vdr
    +4
    11 February 2013 09: 01
    How will "Latvian" and "Chinese" battalions be created at the beginning of Soviet power?
    1. +2
      11 February 2013 14: 57
      Russian battalions and Chinese divisions.
  5. +2
    11 February 2013 09: 05
    Conscripts from Central Asia will go to serve in the Internal Troops and guard the "GUBU". So it was in the Soviet Union.
    1. +4
      11 February 2013 09: 10
      Yes, I know, many Uzbeks served, they are irreplaceable at the post, they will not let their mother in. But do not forget that more than twenty years have passed and that generation has grown that is "independent" and these are different people. In the Union, there was a different upbringing, the Union states themselves brought up patriotism and instilled the thesis about the brotherhood of peoples through unity with Russia, but now upbringing takes place (if at all) on the basis of rejection of Russia and everything Russian as the main oppressor of the national in these republics (but I, of course I do not claim that it is like this everywhere, but in general it is like this) ..

      Another question: serve in the army - get citizenship - here you can think.
      1. +4
        11 February 2013 12: 16
        The main question is - have you served in the army, get a lift, for which you can rent an apartment for at least a year. And I'm not talking about contractors. And then, we have a type of capitalism, we have called your constitutional right to an apartment a mortgage, and you must serve socialistly, i.e. at the expense of free education, a free apartment, and free medicine.

        The same is about Tajiks, you serve well, get on the account, you serve poorly - we subtract from the couple. If at the end of the service you have the means to rent an apartment during the year (you can add your own), OK, you get a residence permit ... You behave well for a year and a half, you get citizenship.
        1. +1
          11 February 2013 12: 53
          Well, I’m saying that thought can be developed if desired ...
          1. +2
            11 February 2013 13: 00
            Only now, until the migration service earns money and sends illegal immigrants back, they don’t even want to discuss such a law. Since in the end it will most likely turn out that Tajik will receive citizenship and the Russian citizen will feel a deep satisfaction from the debt he has fulfilled.

            Well, perhaps the only plus (turning a blind eye to the cons), we can assume that in the conscripts the Russians will cease to see disenfranchised slaves and transfer this label to Asians.
            1. +3
              11 February 2013 13: 13
              Well, this is also an option, but here it is necessary that not only the migration service starts working, but the state as a whole in relation to illegal immigrants. We do not have a coherent policy. Yesterday or the day before yesterday I read "the government of the Russian Federation will simplify the entry for citizens of Uzbekistan" -.!?!?! ??! LRO! D!?!? how so? They poop on their heads, excuse me, but we also simplify the entrance? I do not understand anything...
        2. +1
          11 February 2013 13: 34
          This is the right approach to business. And then there’s nowhere to live, came from the army and what, scourge? While I got a job, back and forth.
  6. +1
    11 February 2013 09: 16
    And in the past, they did not differ much in their knowledge of the works of Fyodor Mikhailovich. Slogans and values ​​may have changed, but the mentality has remained the same. "How many years I have been standing here and the password has not changed."
    1. 0
      11 February 2013 09: 25
      Yeah. We are losing the information war on all fronts. Example: it was the States that defeated fascism. Or the fact that the Japanese youth are sure that the Union to them "Kid" with "Fat Man" was sent. The list is very, very ...
      1. +1
        11 February 2013 11: 29
        Quote: Renat
        it was the States that defeated fascism. Or the fact that the Japanese youth are sure that the Union to them "Kid" with "Fat Man" was sent. The list is very, very ...

        And you read less "yellow" pseudo-patriotic press. The Japanese believe that the declaration of war on them by the Soviets in 1945 was treacherous and contrary to the treaty of neutrality of 1941, which in principle is true. But they also know very well who gave them atomic gifts.
        1. +2
          11 February 2013 12: 44
          Here, yes, in principle, it is true, but the Japanese were allies of Hitler, who also attacked us in the same way. And Stalin kept the Siberian divisions in the east precisely because he was afraid of the Japanese attack, and when the enemy was near Moscow, he went to the vabank. It's my opinion.
  7. pa_nik
    +1
    11 February 2013 09: 22
    The question requires a thorough study. Create a "test" military unit from the willing "new Russians". Define the range of problems that arise. Is their solution possible? Otherwise, it will turn out, as always ... Laws are adopted, and then they figure out how to get around them, not fulfill them, cancel them ..
    1. +1
      11 February 2013 09: 30
      I would say blind patience and unreasonable hope for the best somewhere beyond the horizon.
  8. Zeman
    +5
    11 February 2013 09: 37
    The more I read such news, the more I become convinced that our government is sitting in a completely different dimension. And owns the information on the principle of OBS (One Grandmother Said)
  9. Vrungel78
    +1
    11 February 2013 09: 51
    Everything seems to be logical, but let me ask a question to our valiant deputies: who will teach them Russian before being drafted? Or do it during their service? Then who will give the teacher? Or maybe it will be someone from the officer (sergeant) staff? Will the salary be added? (it is not included in the duties). Although, if we discard the sarcasm, then you can call the wipers to "Slavyanka" - some alternative will work out with benefit. What do you think, comrades?
    1. +1
      11 February 2013 10: 00
      Stroybat. There is no need to know a lot of words.
      1. Vrungel78
        0
        11 February 2013 10: 54
        as an option
      2. s1н7т
        -1
        11 February 2013 13: 56
        Quote: Renat
        Buildbat

        But is he really there ?!
    2. +3
      11 February 2013 12: 07
      With the language of bullshit all this. I served in 85-87. and we had national minorities who didn’t know a word in Russian! A grandfather, a countryman, was attached to each of these, and after a couple of months there was not even an accent. Purely Pushkin.
  10. AK-47
    +1
    11 February 2013 09: 59
    There are some nuances in this problem, well, for example: some states may intentionally direct part of their youth to military service, to put it mildly, for free. The leaders of underground gangs can also use this to train their future fighters.
  11. +5
    11 February 2013 10: 02
    Good morning Alexey! hi You set an interesting catch (task) before us.
    Well, by definition, I consider myself an adherent (supporter) of re-conscription, but with the condition falling under the draft age and limited time services. I will explain why, the thing is that the union, the union and the oath is still loyal to another state. This is the first. There where the oath there and responsibility.
    Second citizenship is not a gift on a saucer with a blue border. It still needs to be earned. Pass a kind of exam.
    Third quotation After all, today the state deliberately limits the draft of the inhabitants of some North Caucasian republics for military service for a number of reasons.

    but this is complete disgrace and it is necessary to understand. why and how?! Indulgence no one should do.
    1. s1н7т
      +1
      11 February 2013 13: 58
      Quote: Apollon
      the oath is still loyalty to another state. This is the first. There where the oath there and responsibility.

      I wonder if you change citizenship, legal. responsibility for the oath is canceled?
      1. +1
        11 February 2013 14: 07
        but is it? this responsibility? hundreds of examples. After serving an urgent, for example, in Kazakhstan, they move to the Russian Federation and go on a contract. But they do not take the oath in the RA. and what? how does he differ from the contractor who was born in Russia and took the oath, having passed the urgent ... and they died for Russia (without taking the oath)
        1. +2
          11 February 2013 15: 07
          Quote: c1n7
          I wonder if you change citizenship, legal. responsibility for the oath is canceled?


          Sumptuously!!!
          Fundamental question !!!

          And if dual citizenship, like mine, for example? And, if Russia suddenly bites with its historical homeland, what should I do?

          Not, if you take me, it’s torn either to Ukraine or Kazakhstan, there are no problems. This is better than choosing who to shoot at.

          IN ANY EVENT, AS A HYPOTHETIC FIGHTER I WOULD BE ...

          And tens of thousands are planning such.

          We think.
          1. 0
            11 February 2013 15: 13
            And if dual citizenship, like mine, for example?

            how is it? if moving to Russia you still have a certificate of the state from where you came from, this does not mean that dual citizenship
            1. Bismark
              0
              11 February 2013 22: 10
              This means two citizenships. This is double when in one passport 2 citizenships are marked, as in the Dominican Republic for example.
  12. borisst64
    +5
    11 February 2013 10: 04
    Assessing the situation, I see that out of a couple of dozen young people at my enterprise (20-30 years old), only 3 (three) served. The rest were corrupted. That's where the reserve is!
  13. +7
    11 February 2013 10: 14
    Wolf, how many do not feed him - he still looks into the forest.
    When introducing the idea of ​​a second call, this Russian proverb should not be forgotten. It is not yet clear what kind of military-trained "reserve" we will end up with. Isn't it easier to make the existing laws of the Russian Federation work on conscription and punishments for evading it?
  14. Fox
    +3
    11 February 2013 10: 15
    cool ... I served in the USSR, took the oath ... now I need to be called in Russia to serve for the majors and various fagots?
    1. +2
      11 February 2013 10: 42
      Hm. I didn’t immediately guess ... Definitely a plus. But Russia seems to be the successor of the USSR (I don’t know how exactly the term is in jurisprudence) - that is, the oath of the USSR = the oath of Russia. Knowledgeable people explain.
    2. Vrungel78
      +2
      11 February 2013 11: 01
      Dear Fox. Firstly, if you served in the USSR, then you are definitely not subject to appeal. Secondly, you would serve not for majors and fagots, but for yourself.
  15. EDW
    EDW
    +2
    11 February 2013 10: 42
    The idea of ​​the law, of course, is good, but as usual, there will be misunderstandings with the implementation.
    And so yes, I completely agree - all citizens of the country should serve.
    But why so immediately put global experiments on the recruiting system that has been proven for decades?
    It would be better within the regiment to try something for a start.

    As for the majors and fagots ... I don’t even know, you can also call up under the guise of scouts to throw far away - let the probable enemy be corrupted wassat
    1. +1
      11 February 2013 15: 16
      Now, if everyone should serve, then EVERYTHING. Without exception.
      Why spend government money on security? Or what, pedrils can't remove snow? Drive them into one company / battalion under the commandant's office, and wave shovels while the normal are trained in military affairs in a real way. And to settle at the "lip", there is blessing in every garrison.
    2. +1
      11 February 2013 18: 27
      Fagots should be sent to counterintelligence! Saboteurs and traitors are "interrogated with passion."
  16. bap063
    +2
    11 February 2013 10: 51
    Now this is happening in the US Army. Why take the bad that is,
  17. +1
    11 February 2013 10: 54
    Eh ... And judging by the headline, I thought that the children of wealthy parents of officials and businessmen would be drafted into the army. And it turns out only only useless Uzbeks and Tajiks ...
  18. +1
    11 February 2013 11: 32
    Well, well, that’s how I’ve been talking about the Russian Foreign Legion for a long time. Useful business.
    Threat with amers already approx. 30% of the army are Negroes who do not have citizenship.
  19. +2
    11 February 2013 11: 45
    Russia is advancing historically in the likeness of the Roman Empire (if Uzbek-Tajiks-Kyrgyz are to be called up). In the beginning, the Romans recruited barbarians into legions to serve for Father Rome. And the barbarians served for civil rights and privileges. In the end, having a huge army consisting of legionary barbarians, Rome fell. For citizens of pure Roman origin did not want to serve, but demanded bread and circuses. And the Roman legions, consisting of barbarians, became an independent force, serving purely for money, and not to Rome, but to those who paid the most ... Therefore, the citizens of the indigenous nation, or the minority nations, who have proved their loyalty to the State by generations, should also serve in the Armed Forces. A striking example is the Moscow Region, which does not want to take Russian citizens from the Caucasian republics into its ranks.
    1. Vdr
      Vdr
      +1
      11 February 2013 14: 24
      There, the army also became a political institution - it imprisoned and deposed emperors, established tyranny, dictatorship, or democracy at its discretion. Moreover, the large latifundists virtually destroyed the independent peasantry. And it was a state-forming layer.
  20. Volkhov
    +4
    11 February 2013 11: 53
    Carry out approximate calculations in your mind - 140 million (supposedly) 70 years of medium. life expectancy, m / f in half - means 1 million draftees per 1 age year, 800 thousand in the army with officers and contract soldiers, that is, draftees with a triple supply, but a shortage ...
    The answer to the task - 140 million - is the population with all visitors, but they call on citizens, not from Chechnya ... but the citizens of the Russian Federation - about 80 million, or maybe less with a bunch of hemorrhoids and an average reluctance to serve (quite logical).
    Make another calculation - how many troops do you need for the Lavrov peacekeeping operation in Syria? M.O. Germany Westerwelle believes that 200 thousand, which is rather an underestimated estimate, but how many in the NE RF? about 70 thousand, while sending the entire available army there would be strange even for the Democrats, and diluting with policemen, as in Chechnya, is surprising for the world.
    So they are collecting everything they can, and if Iran joins, then they will need a universal and not weak detachment of explosives and cops to explain which homeland and where to love.
  21. 0
    11 February 2013 12: 21
    Well, until this is confirmed by the press service of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, so it’s stupid to discuss.
  22. Igor
    +4
    11 February 2013 12: 39
    Well, it turns out I’ll have to serve again in the army?) But bite me and bite! Sometimes it seems to me that there aren’t any smart people at the top, some cunning ones stayed and those cunning ones just stole and didn't come up with anything good, horror . belay
    1. +1
      11 February 2013 15: 18
      No, there are still smart ones ... just not enough.
  23. +3
    11 February 2013 12: 43
    To call in the army of former foreigners is nonsense. And the most striking example of this is the same Chechens - having served in the army of the Russian Federation, they receive free training for military operations and terrorist attacks against this very Russian Federation. Calling more foreigners is easier to immediately publish all the secret information in open sources. Let me remind you simply even statutes and charters have a level of secrecy.

    For that matter, to raise the call, you need to create benefits for those who have served. Suppose admission on a free basis to universities, including mostly commercial ones.
    Well, again, to improve the conditions of service - while the news is circulating that in parts of 40-50 soldiers at the same time they suffer from pneumonia, no one will serve in such an army.
    1. 0
      11 February 2013 13: 00
      And the most striking example of this is the same Chechens - having served in the army of the Russian Federation, they receive free training for military operations and terrorist acts against

      Do you know that Chechnya is the territory of the Russian Federation (for now, anyway) ?! They are on a par with everyone if, if anything, their rights in principle are no different from the constitution from the same Muscovites.
      then in units of 40-50 soldiers simultaneously suffer from pneumonia, no one will serve in such an army.

      It always hurt just before compassionate media, but acclimatization is the change of a warm crib and mother’s pies for something else - it’s stress, that’s why they get sick. Again, hardening and sports are practically not cultivated before the army ...
      1. Igor
        +2
        11 February 2013 13: 08
        Quote: klimpopov
        as well as acclimatization, the change of a warm crib and mother’s pies to something else is stress, that’s why they get sick.


        Strange, in my unit no one had pneumonia, despite even acclimatizing, changing a warm bed and the absence of my mother’s pies.
      2. Elliot
        +4
        11 February 2013 13: 11
        Quote: klimpopov
        then in units of 40-50 soldiers simultaneously suffer from pneumonia, no one will serve in such an army.
        It always hurt just before compassionate media, but acclimatization is the change of a warm crib and mother’s pies for something else - it’s stress, that’s why they get sick. Again, hardening and sports are practically not cultivated before the army ...

        Well, actually, actually, like that, 50 people with pneumonia are lying in some assembly hall or warehouse of a military unit, this is not at all a rumor. Of course, nobody will take them to the hospital. disclosures are afraid. Acclimatization is possible and is taking place, but the conditions there are also not fabulous.
        1. +2
          11 February 2013 13: 25
          About the committee of soldiers' mothers pounced on (just kidding))) No, I'm not talking about that. It's just that in the Union, too, there were enough similar emergency situations about them, they did not know that and everything, judging by the fact that "in my part, no one was sick with pneumonia" - well, somehow strange. And 50-60 are sick, let's start with the fact that pre-war training is not given as it should. And they really will not be taken to the hospital because there is a hospital or a medical unit for that, and so on. Although two years ago I was in a city hospital (examination), so there were saldophones, one with pneumonia just got drunk on the second bleach (both ZhDV) so they were taken to the hospital and told the parents. There are, excuse me, the commanders are idiots, but there are quite adequate ones, of which there is more such an army ...
          1. Elliot
            +3
            11 February 2013 15: 11
            You know, I’m not suitable for soldiers’s mothers by age and I don’t attack you at all, but the situation that I describe, unfortunately, has a place
            1. +2
              11 February 2013 15: 16
              But who argues that? There is a place to be and commanders-morons have a place to be, and silence, too. That's right. I wanted to say a little about something else. The fact that it is necessary to prepare replenishment from childhood, in this situation the whole system of posting and initial military training is to blame and a mess ...
    2. 0
      11 February 2013 13: 33
      To call in the army of former foreigners is nonsense.

      interesting not only that "foreigners", but also "former" -that's where nonsense
      even the statutes and charters have a level of secrecy.
      it's not bad too
      And if today the family moved to permanent residence in Russia from Ukraine or Kazakhstan, should I draft a child in the army in the future?
    3. s1н7т
      0
      11 February 2013 14: 17
      Quote: gallville
      in units of 40-50 soldiers simultaneously suffer from pneumonia, no one will serve in such an army.

      At the end of the 70s 30% of military age were unfit or partially fit for military service due to health reasons. Further - worse, here you have pneumonia of 40-50 people!
      86th year, winter period, training company of fur.-water, standard uniform, standard food. At the field pace. sank far beyond -45, but - no pneumonia! In the barracks, the walls covered with frost in the night, slept under the mattresses ( laughing ), but for some reason only a few fell ill. And a couple of years ago I looked who passes the medical board at the military registration and enlistment office, 75% are already potential regulars at the medical unit and hospital!
      1. Vdr
        Vdr
        +2
        11 February 2013 14: 29
        The army took the best potential (gene pool) - healthy, strong, hardy. Wars reduced their number. Unsuitable for physical activity and service multiplied in the rear. The result - their descendants are almost all sick.
    4. +1
      11 February 2013 21: 17
      Ivan, I agree. It is necessary to make sure that the youth of the Russian Federation itself went to the army, like we do. Yes, in Ukraine there are no "hot spots", Caucasians are in barracks. There are Tatars, but they are quiet. But try to get a job without a military ID. The law of Ukraine allows you to be a combatant, that is, to serve on government employment in the army of another country. There is an opportunity getting into peacekeepers is also a beneficial incentive for personnel to serve and earn money. This length of service goes in the ratio of a year to three. And he will save up currency, and he will receive a specialty. We must start from the top - as long as there is hazing (in the Ukrainian and Belarusian armies this phenomenon is minimized), bullying and apathy of the commanders, no one will go to such an army.
  24. 0
    11 February 2013 13: 40
    It is worth noting that in the same Israel, the higher the age of the recruiter who arrived, the less he serves. And the older the person, the less he serves. For example, three months instead of three years. And the limitations of the service - in my opinion, up to 27
  25. s1н7т
    +2
    11 February 2013 14: 24
    First, let the military doctrine be sorted out, the principles of military organizational development "settled", the principle of recruiting finally determined, and only then it will be clear who and where to call or not to call. "I am so kaatsa" (c)
    P.S. They fool around with nothing to do, not otherwise.
  26. +2
    11 February 2013 16: 30
    Salaries must be paid to all in the army for contract soldiers of 30000 and higher to conscripts of 20000 and privileges after the army with institute and employment. Then we will recruit our own! And so foreigners can be given citizenship through a contract. And restore order in the country. To publicly plant and exile the Kolyma embezzlers of defense ministers. It’s possible to shoot cheaper.
  27. 0
    11 February 2013 17: 25
    Quote: klimpopov
    Do you know that Chechnya is the territory of the Russian Federation (for now, anyway) ?! They are on a par with everyone if, if anything, their rights in principle are no different from the constitution from the same Muscovites.

    You have very interesting knowledge))) let me give you a few links on the part of recruits from the Caucasus:
    http://izvestia.ru/news/540516
    http://www.mk.ru/daily/newspaper/article/2012/11/28/780575-dagestan-rvetsya-v-ar
    miyu.html
    In these articles, the local authorities of Dagestan are asking to increase the recruitment from 200 to 35 thousand =))) What do you think is the recruitment package in this case in Chechnya?

    Quote: klimpopov
    It always hurt just before compassionate media, but acclimatization is the change of a warm crib and mother’s pies for something else - it’s stress, that’s why they get sick. Again, hardening and sports are practically not cultivated before the army ...

    Well, you need to focus on the 21st century. And create conditions for those realities that are, but were not.
    1. +1
      11 February 2013 18: 07
      So you are about Dagestan? Or about Chechnya? You confused me. You gave an example about Chechnya and links to Dagestan. Again, there is evidence of an appeal from Chechnya? And how many ethnic Chechens from other regions where they live are called on, did not think about it? It is not a matter of how much is being called up, but the fact is that they are being called up legally and they are not a separate state, and just like they are being called for, for example, from the KCR or Kabarda or the Stavropol Territory. And what does the set have to do with it? My misunderstanding ...
      And do not make hasty conclusions about my knowledge (advice) ...
  28. 0
    11 February 2013 19: 27
    Quote: klimpopov
    Again, there is evidence of an appeal from Chechnya?

    The last (second) link says about Chechnya. So there is no call.
    Quote: klimpopov
    And what does the set have to do with it?

    Moreover, if it is dangerous to call on fellow citizens from some places, what can be said about former foreigners?
    Quote: klimpopov
    And do not make hasty conclusions about my knowledge (advice) ...

    And I suggest you read the answers of your opponents.
    1. 0
      11 February 2013 19: 45
      Moreover, if it is dangerous to call on fellow citizens from some places, what can be said about former foreigners?

      So it was incomprehensible to me, it was necessary to write something like that, but I can’t read your thoughts. You wrote that
      And the most striking example of this is the same Chechens - having served in the army of the Russian Federation, they receive free training for military operations and terrorist attacks against this very Russian Federation

      I didn’t understand this, it followed from this saying that the Chechens were foreigners ... Again, figs with them ... They still have enough in the army ...
  29. uhjpysq1
    -1
    12 February 2013 10: 25
    come on arm the blacks, come on. little they bring drugs, give them guns more. to kill more Russians.

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