Tiger-M tests completed

"It is expected that the armored car" Tiger "in the improved version of the" Tiger-M "will be officially adopted by the Russian army in the first half of 2013 of the year," said S. Suvorov.

According to him, “Tigr-M” has fully completed state tests and is being finalized according to the requirements of the customer, including in terms of increasing mine resistance.
S.Suvorov also noted that, despite the fact that the "Tigr-M" has not yet been officially adopted, it is being mass-produced at the Arzamas Machine-Building Plant, including for export.

Drastic changes are unlikely to occur, so most likely they will install special chairs and lay mats, as on SPM-2M. However, we'll see.

Comments

[Alexander Romanov]

Waiting for comments from Zhenya Pupyrchaty, about leibochki and mine protection

[Lopatov]

You "Tigers" confused. The one with the mine is called "Tiger-6A"

[Nechai]

What's the difference? Seriously, no mocking. Such an alignment that earlier the development was designated "6A" (according to the factory nomenclature), but with the official acceptance into service it simply received the "M" index, don’t you admit it?
Video -Arzamas "Tiger" and not only. BTR-82A and "Tiger-6A" [media = http: //krasview.ru/video/187246-Arzamasskiiy_Tigr_i_ne_tolko._BTR-82A_i_T
igr-6A.]

[leon-iv]

Tiger-M is a doped tiger which SPM-1 removed a number of problems. But mine protection has not changed
Tiger 6A is in fact another car that carries fewer people much harder. In fact, the same.

[Sergh]

Quote: Nechai

What's the difference?

I don’t understand? You want to find the difference from the photo, without explaining the engineers? For example, when I was a "girl" (not married) worked at a "small machine-building" plant, so there we did a modification so that the outer contours did not change at all, only minced meat and electronics.
So that you are a brother, they are wrong here!

[kirieeleyson]

Quote: Sergh

the outer contours did not change at all

In general, I think just the indexes really changed. If there were changes in the little things in the cabin, then maybe to the heap. By the way, it seems to me, or in fact, a review of the frontal projection with such racks is extremely ineffective? Although this car is not for HZ, but still .. it’s inconvenient to stumble into the frame out of the corner of your eye, even if you thought of making a smaller blind zone.

[evil hamster]

The title photo for the article shows Tiger 6A, and the second photo with the interior from Tiger M

[bddrus]

if YaMZ is installed on the Tiger-M, then there should be a hump on the hood, with no kamins

[Lopatov]

The difference is primarily in defense. "Tiger-M" - protection against a grenade under the bottom, Tiger-6A - full protection against explosions, analogue of "Lynx"

[Pimply]

But he didn’t go further than model 6A. In general, these are different machines for different tasks.

[Pimply]

The difference is very big. 6A and M - they walked separately.

M differs from the previous model in that they put on it a new engine YaMZ 5347-10. True, here's a minus - it’s bigger than the previous one, therefore, the Tiger-M has a hump. He is protected by the third level.

In 6A, 4 seats were assumed for a completely different layout. Well, etc.

[Rustam]

You "Tigers" are confused
___________
I tell in the first photo in Tatyana Tigr6a in the second salon of the Tiger Spm2m for BB

1) TIGER-M is going into the army under state defense orders. A protection class of more than 3 units has been delivered. Naturally, the military already wants to keep up to 100 kg of trotilla in the lower photo for VV.

2) Tigr6a is the initiative development of the AMZ in protection class 6 - while there is no interest in it

3) mainly Tigers SPM2 are exported - as in the photo

[Lopatov]

Quote: Rustam

Tigr6a is the initiative development of AMZ in the 6th class of protection - while there is no interest in it

Of course not. He was supposed to undergo demolition tests last year. VV-shniki had to conduct. But the car is not ready for this.

[Rustam]

you are not right
This is the initiative development of AMZ as a counterweight to IVECO for the army, but there is no interest, so there are no tests, so it is listed in a single copy

they made SPM2M for explosives; it suits them, but so far there are no orders



so for now in the TIGER-M army with the 3rd defense class, here it is in the photo

[Lopatov]

This is about "Tiger 6A", isn't it? Only he is analogous to "Lynx" What are you translating arrows to other samples?

[Rustam]

hard with you

We are talking about a respected TIGER-M which is now under state defense orders with the 3rd class of protection and without mine action! Suvorov says that they want to finalize it

in the pictures of the article is not TIGER-M !! I repeat the upper Tigr6a lower cabin SPM2M

now you understand

here's another photo from the zagazhnik- AMZ production of TIGROV-M for MORF - it’s about this article, and they want to improve it, and photos of other samples in the article, since the author of the article does not understand the modifications of the Tigers

[Lopatov]

Quote: Rustam

Lord how hard it is with you

It would be much easier for you if you understood what was going on. At least after reading the post of Alexander Romanov, to which I replied

[Rustam]

sorry sorry

[Lopatov]

Nonsense. It happens to me too.

[dmitreach]

so, now I'm confused in the dialogue thread ... explain it popularly, please.

[Lopatov]

Yes, they just misunderstood each other.
The "Tiger" has many modifications.

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Spade

The "Tiger" has many modifications.

- ATGM "Kornet-M" / "Kornet-D" - an anti-tank missile system combat vehicle 

- SAM "Komar" - combat vehicle with an air defense system module

- SBRM - service and combat reconnaissance vehicle

- "Abaim-Abanat" - special assault barrage vehicle for overcoming obstacles and entering the building 

- command post SAM "Morpheus"

[Lopatov]

In my opinion, only the last two make sense.

[Karpv]

Here is a link about "Tigers", the article is true from 11 years old, there are pictures http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/7551/ plus more http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/8202/

[zanoza]

It’s also interesting here: http://www.amz.ru/smi-o-nas/smi-o-tigre/

[Sergh]

Quote: Pimply

M differs from the previous model in that they put on it a new engine YaMZ 5347-10.

Listen, shut up ?!

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Sergh

Listen, shut up ?!

This until the training manual does not work does not shut up!

[Pimply]

Why would it, dear man.

[evil hamster]

And this is really him. Pay attention to the hood.

[evil hamster]

No, it’s not M tiger. The m-ki has a characteristic armored car hood and dviglo YaMZ 534 because of which it appeared.

[Pimply]

I think. just can’t finish it. Because the car for export would be in full demand, if there were appropriate characteristics. And so ...

[Sergh]

Quote: Pimply

therefore, the Tigris-M has a hump. He is protected by the third level.

Zhenya! Listen, you got tired. (you can) Sergei, ..., but what did you want to document?
Like Lynx Italian steep or your Israeli establishment at a high level ??? Strange you are comrade. I have long been a fifty dollars, a little brain and sometimes I think (joke).

[Pimply]

Well, I’m over thirty, and I say that what was primarily done in Russia was written not by car, but by a soldier. And when a car designed for combined arms and police operations in urban areas without the danger of undermining is shoved into the niche of a multipurpose vehicle, with a bias in patrol, escort and reconnaissance in low-intensity conflict zones, I consider this a betrayal. This is not to buy an Italian car. Clear?
Because Italian is used in combat conditions in 10 countries, and the local hamsters and cheers patriots shout - give us the Tiger! And forward. Let's go to the same Caucasus, where regular bombings of armored vehicles occur, send cars without mine protection. The main thing is that the life label is correct, right?

I had to undermine more than once or twice. And I am well aware that I would prefer a car of the wrong brand with good protection to a tin on wheels with the correct body label.

And if your brains, Seryozha, as you say, sometimes think, then you, as an adult, will realize: Iveco uses 10 countries in a combat situation. Yuzayut, including the northern countries. There are few criticisms of cars. The theme from the video of the demolition is generally unprecedented to have it posted earlier. It may be time to distract from cheers-patriotism, and remember that patriotism - it is primarily concerned about people. States do not reflect. When necessary, they buy abroad, and only then they plan their own - protecting their soldiers. Why, then, in Russia, the cheers-patriots in words behind the soldiers are mountains, but in reality they spit on them?

[Tsoi is alive]

26.06.2011/20/65 in the northern province of the Republic of Afghanistan Badgis, XNUMX km north of its administrative center, Kalain Nau, an armored car of the LMV (MXNUMXE) brand, which was part of a military convoy of the Spanish contingent, part of the ISAF international group, was blown up by a mine.

The military convoy consisted of three such armored vehicles, which in the Spanish army are designated as Lince, and four armored wheeled vehicles RG-31. As a result of the explosion, three servicemen were injured, and two more soldiers, who were in the car at the time of the explosion, were killed. The victims are members of the Soria Ninth Infantry Regiment, which is permanently deployed in the Canary Islands. The Spanish contingent lost a second Lince armored vehicle in a short period of time. The first such armored car was blown up on June 17 of this year. Then, as a result of the explosion, four Spanish soldiers and a civilian translator were seriously injured.

And if you still wipe the Internet, you can get the following information from a year ago: "22 of 30 killed Italian troops in Afgan were in Iveco LMV M65. Such a good armor ..." (translation: "22 of 30 killed Italian troops Afgan were in Iveco LMV M65. Such good armor ... "

[Lopatov]

Quote: Choi is alive

And if you still wipe the Internet, you can get the following information from a year ago: "22 of 30 killed Italian troops in Afgan were in Iveco LMV M65. Such a good armor ..." (translation: "22 of 30 killed Italian troops Afgan had Iveco LMV M65. Such good armor.

It remains to ask Gurkhan for a reference to the original message.

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Spade

It remains to ask Gurkhan for a reference to the original message.

No need to go so far, look here:

http://topwar.ru/11182-a-na-voyne-kak-na-voyne.html

[Lopatov]

I watched it. Iveco has excellent results.

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Spade

I watched it. Iveco has excellent results.

As anyone.



I also have no more questions!

[Lopatov]

If, after undermining a 150-kg IED, only the operator of a light machine gun installation dies in the car, then the machine is definitely good.

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Spade

If after undermining 150-kg IED

Well then to you here again; http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2012/01/1_27.html

[Lopatov]

And what's there? Session of determining the power of the VCA from a photograph?

[Tsoi is alive]

[Lopatov]

And what did you want to show by this?
That the tests of "Iveco" to undermine were still carried out?

[Tsoi is alive]

Quote: Spade

And what did you want to show by this?

You don’t understand, but sorry, look then.

[Lopatov]

Very good video. On the topic "what will happen to the" Tiger-M "after the detonation of the IED". He's an analogue of the armored Humvee, which turned out to be the main "actor" in this video

[Tsoi is alive]

Same thing with Iveco.
Since when did NATO STANAG certificates and NATO standards suddenly become a de facto document for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the basis for adoption?

July 2010. on the road between Herat and Shindant, as a result of a driver’s error (without any external influences), the LMV M65 turned over, the senior corporal Ponsiano Rosario 25 died, 4 an alpine parachute regiment.

Another example. When detonating with a capacity of no more than 1 kg THT ??? under the right front wheel, in the lower part of the so-called "armored capsule", a hole with an area
up to 30 square docimeters (the result of the frame assembly of the armored structure using bolt fasteners), through which the right front door and the upper hatch were pulled out by excessive pressure of the blast wave, The rear right door remained in place, but the upper part of the door moved away from the body by 5-10 cm under the action overpressure from inside the machine. With such excess pressure, crew members of this vehicle have no chance of surviving.
Although iveco developers are trying to convince the opposite, because HATO standards allow this. According to them, a crew member is considered to have survived after being blown up on an IED or a mine if he is still breathing. And the fact that he will die in 10 minutes after the evacuation from a damaged car is another section of the statistics of losses.
Regarding the comparison according to STANAG and GOST.
As you know, the devil lurks in the details.
According to STANAG, it is considered that protection meets the declared standard if 50% of bullets (or other damaging elements) plus one is not penetrated. An example is a queue from a machine gun 20 bullets and if 9 bullets pierce it, but 11 is not, then the level of protection will be considered normal. In other words, if Iveco LMV M65 is fired from SVD with B-32 bullets from a distance of 100 to 200 meters, then 4 bullets from the fired store (the first 6 will destroy ceramic armor) will kill at least 2 crew members, not to mention the line from PKM .
According to Russian GOSTs, this is unacceptable. In our country, the formation of a bulge with a microcrack through which kerosene is LEAKED is considered to be penetration, and if this happens even after one hit from a hundred, the protection will not correspond to the norm.

source V. Semyonov "Golden rake" review of the Army and Navy №6-2010

[Lopatov]

And you don’t know that we use the STANAG standard only when assessing protection against bombings? And when assessing the protection against bullets and fragments, are the native GOSTs?

[Tsoi is alive]

GOST R 50963-96

An external inspection of the car by experts also revealed that the ceramic armor panels are only in certain places and do not cover the entire protected area of ​​the so-called “armored capsule” of the Iveco LMV M65 car. In those places where it is difficult (and ceramic armor panels can only be flat) or in size it is impossible to provide protection with ceramics, inserts from ordinary steel armor are installed. However, the ballistic resistance of these inserts does not correspond to the 3rd level of protection according to STANAG (all the more so to the requirements of GOST R 50963-96 according to protection class 6a). Thus, a lot of weakened zones are formed in the armored vehicle structure. The Italians quickly fend off questions on this subject: “our technical documentation allows up to 15% of weakened zones from the area of ​​the projected area” That is, 1/6 part on each side and from the roof too. In total, it turns out that approximately 2-3 m2 of Iveco LMV M65 “armored capsules” are not protected!

В of Russia GOST the presence of weakened zones in armored vehicles is also allowed, but this does not apply to military equipment! This is permissible, for example, on collection vehicles or when booking private "jeeps" and representative cars.

[Lopatov]

That's exactly according to these GOSTs

[Pimply]

There is no literal coincidence, but there is something common in certain parameters. And that is quite fine.

[Pimply]

Apparently, in the military ministries of 10 completely howling countries they sit full They did not see this video. We need to show them. Especially the difference between undermining in an open area and at a training ground under a car.

[bask]

Quote: Spade

I watched it. Iveco has excellent results.

What about the price? And operational costs. I think if it was necessary to buy MPD it should be a series of RG-31, etc., Or ,, Marader ,, Raramount, BAE RG still will not sell to Russia.

[Lopatov]

What was possible to buy, then they took it.

[Pimply]

There should be several mine action vehicles. As should be a few and lighter. As there should be several types of infantry fighting vehicles. Just because for different tasks - different cars

[Lopatov]

Several types of cars for different tasks.
BMP still has to be one.

[bask]

Quote: Spade

BMP still has to be one.

Which BMP? BMP-T, BMP on the General Staff and wheeled. The armored vehicles of the MPI are somewhat different in tasks. From 15 to 30 tons. And the number of seats is from 5 to 10. All with DBM. And the South African men, the Marauders themselves imposed on us. But here politics intervened. They cut the 5th ,, Iveco ,,

[Lopatov]

BMP on a wheeled chassis? I do not think that she will be able to fulfill her functions.

BTR is possible. That's it they can be different.

[Pimply]

I do not agree. At least two are needed: a heavy one, say on a tank base, and a lighter, water-floating one.

[Lopatov]

If an infantry fighting vehicle is at a tank base, then it can very well overcome reservoirs along the bottom. Like her relative. If the base is separate, additional outboard booking. Without him he swims, with him no.

[Pimply]

It is somewhat controversial. Though...

[Lopatov]

It on the APC can be assigned different tasks. And in the BMP, it is one-combat operations in conjunction with tanks.

[bask]

Quote: Spade

But the BMP has it alone - fighting along with tanks

But this is only in theory. And according to the charter. The war in Afghanistan and Chechnya has denied all this. One of the BMP-T variants.

[bask]

Quote: Spade

If an infantry fighting vehicle is at a tank base, then it can very well overcome reservoirs along the bottom

You in the war, suitable buoyancy BMP and armored personnel carriers and overcoming the reservoir on the bottom.? In the S. Caucasus, all rivers are 1,5 meters deep. Only application
BMP-T, BTR-T and MPI.

[Lopatov]

Once in Terek I swam to MT-LBU. We moved from one training ground to another. Ford like sappers marked out, but somewhere burst. Machine without special. shields almost does not swim. Well the mehan was normal, was not afraid, waited, gazanul, as soon as the goose struck the bottom a little bit. Otherwise, it could all end badly.

[bask]

Quote: Spade

Once in Terek I swam to MT-LBU. Moved from about

I lived in Chechnya. 10 years I was in all areas .. Find a place to drown (((almost (((MT-Lb (you have to look for a long time) But this is not the question. The use of lightly protected armored vehicles in the area of ​​S.Kavkaz I consider criminal. Hit a simple anti-tank mine and your mechanic corpse. Only BTR-T and Mrap. Not any floating infantry fighting vehicles. Marines yes.

[Lopatov]

Vladikavkaz. We moved from Daryal to Tarskoe-1. They were not allowed to go by the Georgian military.
Drown would hardly have drowned, but it would spin us robust

[Pimply]

The question is that it is impossible to be limited to this. You need to look not only at what is happening today, but also at what will happen tomorrow.

[bask]

Quote: Pimply

et happen tomorrow.

And tomorrow there will be an increase in terrorist activity in the S. Caucasus. Only the use of ,, classic ,,,, MDAPs. Mass is not less than 20 tons. V-shaped body. Fairy tales about the reinforced flat bottom will not work. The explosion energy presses, on the flat bottom, ,,, breaking through, the floor. The V-shaped bottom surrounds the explosion.

[Yoshkin Kot]

Nevertheless, mine protection is the basis of such machines and it is a pity that there is a problem with it.

[Sergh]

Oops! Finally, we peacefully parted with "Lynx". We like the "Tiger" somehow closer to our liking, dear-infection, dear! Let it be in Russian, albeit in the basics, but its own. Nefig Italians suck.
I beg your pardon, Yoshkin, mine action, right now, in practice, almost a bluff. Bookmarks are 20-50 kg, and here the tank is being rolled over to the roof. Well, take a look the last year or two, about 6-8 kg of TNT already in the press - they don’t write. So that only the lateral explosive distance will save, where centimeters will already be important, under the bottom of 30 kg-trouble.

[Lopatov]

Not parted. 600 grams under the bottom is still not enough.

[ariy_t]

But what about the anti-aircraft mine with a cumulative charge? Can we hang active armor on a tiger? Actually mine armor is a convention divided into classes .. But there are still mines with thermobaric explosives.

[evil hamster]

Quote: ariy_t

But there are still mines with thermobaric explosives.

There are no such mines because no one needs fuck, All volumetric detonating ammunition have no brisance, so they are not suitable for a mine.

[Kodiak]

It's a strange thing - I read the news, and there they write not only about huge bookmarks of 20-50 kg of explosives, which are difficult to get, place, disguise, but also about much less land mines.
They also write there not only about the victims in the blown up cars, but also about the wounded and not injured.

Mine protection will help to reduce losses from explosions, and this is definitely good.

[Pimply]

The closer? The fact that the de facto pay for the label is the lives of the soldiers?
Lynx and Tiger-M are two different machines, for completely different tasks.

[Sergh]

Hello!
It seems that you have several people working under one nickname, I’ve been looking lately and just amazed at your argument to take the opposite. IN A HEALTHY Sense, normal man, why get into a bottle? Ever argue! Zhenya, you (you) surprised me.

[Pimply]

Badly formulated, Seryozha.

De facto, these are two different machines, for different tasks.

They are just stuffed into one niche. And the worst thing is not that Iveco is going to be pushed into the same niche with Tigr-M (the cross-country vehicle is not as problematic as they like to paint here), but the fact that the Tigr-M eats are shoved into the same niche with Iveco - and this is another calico.

Iveco has high-quality mine protection, the Tiger-M does not. In the Caucasus, self-made WUs are actively using the same thing. From which many people die, and from which the usual bulletproof booking does not save.

[vorobey]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Waiting for comments

Took off the tongue.

[Pimply]

Litter, I hand over the project big, broke out in the evening. Commented out.

[leon-iv]

This is not a tiger6A and undermined 600gr

[Pimply]

And it remained so - a watermark and the absence of a normal mine defense. Did you notice that Tiger 6A never appeared anywhere, as I said?

[yanus]

Let Srach begin!

[Sergh]

Oops! Finally, we peacefully parted with "Lynx". For us "Tiger" is somehow closer to the soul, dear-infection, dear!

[Vladimirets]

Camouflage looks very nice in the interior.

[BARKAS]

Quote: Vladimirets

Camouflage looks very nice in the interior.

This anti-fragmentation strike seems to be similar, but in general it’s not clear from the article, so wait and see.

[Lopatov]

Yes, the loot. But why camouflage it is not clear.

[BARKAS]

They didn’t make him camouflage. This material is such a modified body armor.

[Lopatov]

And where is the lining in body armor? Textile screens are yellow, not camouflaged.

[Nechai]

Annoying, I think it will be decent. Maybe that's the idea - so as not to relax and fall asleep?

[Lopatov]

So that the vestibular apparatus is trained. After a while, bouts of motion sickness will pass.

[Joker]

The camouflage color is inside so that when the soldiers start to get out of the car, they themselves would not be visible against the background of the camouflage cabin, that’s why, and not because the men rippled in their eyes when traveling

[leon-iv]

you burn however.
I personally have Bobo eyes from such a color

[Lopatov]

I remember in Voentorg a camouflage ballpoint pen was sold. Three times more expensive than normal was. Maybe the origins of this color in this?

[Castor oil]

Recently I watched a program about comparative military tests of the Tigers and Rysy, so there "direct consumers" spoke about the undoubted advantage of the Russian Tiger in almost all technical and combat indicators. But the main plus of the Tiger is that it can be assembled for any task in a mass of execution options, but this will not work with the Lynx.

[Lopatov]

http://k-a-r-d-e-n.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%A1%D0%9F%D0%9C-1

Feedback from the "direct consumer"

[Joker]

Yes, the cardin has long read this article, what can I say? It seems that they are being collected at AvtoVAZ, and I am inclined to believe in the veracity of the author, since I read a lot of the same bad reviews about the build quality and reliability. In general, modify it and modify it.

[Lopatov]

This is the result of a disregard for the end user. Here it is not necessary to modify the car, but to plant for negligence and fraud.

[leon-iv]

this tales of Lynx also have hardware and anti-tank systems.

[Pimply]

I will tell you somehow how such programs are made. To begin with, TK is given ... And the facts are fitted very simply under it.

[Predator-74]

Nice machine !!!

[Fitter65]

On such a peaceful beast and into the taiga to hunt, or rybalku. Krasavets. I just watched this "striped cat" running around off-road. I'm changing my Shishiga.

[Alekseev]

Mine protection ... For the armored car!
And what about his projectile? How many conventional mm homogeneous steel armor?
Per nonsense stool with macaroni and others taught to repeat ..
In Chechnya, a tank with a rink trawl once lost a tower when hitting a makeshift land mine ... And the tank’s defense is not comparable to more than one armored car.
The tiger is just an armored car, it can sometimes protect from small arms and honor and praise for that. Cars are not intended to protect against TCP and min. Yes, armored. Can slightly cover from anti-personnel, no more.
And the place of bronivichki in the line of military and military equipment of the ground forces is far from the first in importance, rather the hundred and first.
It is unclear why the discussion of these machines causes a stir. Maybe because of the scam stool with Iveco?

[Vladimirets]

Quote: Alekseev

It is unclear why the discussion of these machines causes a stir.

Yes, why are you? This is a jeep!

[Ascetic]

[quote = alekseev] It is not clear why the discussion of these machines causes a stir. Maybe because of a scam stool with Iveco? [/ Quot

That's why. How correctly you noticed lobbying went with an emphasis on the best mine protection of Iveco. (Protection class 6a 3rd level STANAG 4569.)

Summer



Winter. 21 Research Institute of Bronnitsy

[Pimply]

You know very well how these tests were carried out, and how everything was customized there. Properly made propaganda is not a fact. And the fact is that the car successfully in combat, not greenhouse conditions, uses 10 countries. And among them, for example, Norway, which cannot be called a southern country.

[Ascetic]

Pimpled [/ bRoller about pigs instead of mannequins during the tests of the Tiger didn’t look at demolition in Bronnitsy? Sorry I can’t find with Iveka in Germany on the first page, but alas with the Tiger ... The indicators in both cases are almost identical. Tiger demolition tests until November 2012 were not carried out due to the failure of the Ministry of Defense, only after removing Serdyukov did the first blast with the notorious pigs in the cab. And the fact that earlier it was written that the Tiger could not stand the test of an outright lie, because there were NO TESTS until November 2012.

In March, they plan to blow up the "Bear" in June, the next in line is the "Wolf" then we'll see. Again, the trouble is that we are running ahead of the "steam locomotive" and discussing what was not and will only be. Why is nobody interested in the Centaur wheeled tank, which also bought a stool to the pile and which was also abandoned? Does it also use 10 countries?
here

Here the pig is alive

[Lopatov]

You are confusing something. No detonation tests were carried out on the Tigers.

[Pimply]

Tiger demolition tests of more than 600 g in TNT were not conducted. This was repeatedly mentioned in an interview with manufacturers. They performed mathematical calculations on Tiger 6A, after which they promised 5 kg under the wheel, after which they forgot about the promise (Iveco, I remind you, 6).

Further, the pig is not from the Tiger test. I quote
One of the guinea pigs that were planted in Federal-45290 during demolition tests. Ural Federal-45290 after undermining six kilograms of explosives under the bottom. The pigs survived

The only Russian cars - at the moment - that have been tested for more or less serious detonation are the machines of the Zashchita corporation. The scorpion withstood 4 kg under the left, 2 under the right, 600 g under the bottom.
As far as I remember, they did not have an order - which did not stop them from blowing up cars.

Now about the pigs.
"We do not plan to use pigs (during tests of armored vehicles for detonation), despite the fact that this is a global trend - we have dummies with sensors," Suvorov said.
He stated that dummies were used during the detonation of the Tiger armored vehicle during its tests. Suvorov noted that the military-industrial complex will also use dummies in future explosions of the Wolf and Bear armored vehicles.
We plan to blow up "Bear" in the spring (2013), "Wolf" even later; in both cases we will use mannequins, "- concluded the press secretary of the military-industrial complex.

Nowhere is the undermining of a few kilos. It's about the Tiger-M. And it is everywhere - no more than 600 g in TNT equivalent.

[Ascetic]

Pimpled [/ b

So all the same tests were carried out then? Well, of course they deny the pig, therefore the video is probably not there .. Mannequins cost money .. you can write off and blow up the pig that I’m sure of the real thing and it was .. therefore there’s no video in the internet that wouldn’t burn. What the heck are mannequins ... we remember stray cats tied to a P-100 net and fried in 10KV like an electric chair, and the soldiers looked at this thing and shook their heads at what is dangerous to climb under the net into a self-propelled gun. The barbaric method but saved many from an absurd death .. And nobody even bothered with mannequins for these purposes.

[Pimply]

Nobody denies detonation tests in principle. The question is what kind of disruption. Because it was always about the declared 5 kg and Tiger 6A - Iveco's "answer". But he is not.

As for the absence of pigs during the undermining of the tiger, the representative of the producer answers.

[Strezhevchanin]

Pimply,
• Assessment of the level of protection of Iveco LMV M65, carried out by experts through external examination and examination of the available documentation, raises serious doubts about its declared protective properties - 3rd level of protection according to STANAG 4569 (not to mention its compliance with 6a protection class according to GOST R 50963-96) . And that's why. Armored glasses have a thickness of not more than 60 mm, when domestic bulletproof glass for protection class 6a has a thickness of 70mm. At the same time, it is recognized worldwide that Russian-made bulletproof glass is by far the most durable and usually 1,2-1,5 times thinner than imported samples, with the same ballistic resistance.


• The Iveco armored capsule is a fiction, there is some kind of structure like a tube frame made of pipes, to whichCeramic and steel panels are installed. Armor is a ceramic made in Germany, which in Italy combines with a substrate of high-strength polyethylene made in the Netherlands.

• Even the USA did not receive the technology for the production of this armor, and who decided that it would be sold to us? The beauty of the type is that such armor is 40% lighter than armored steel, but also an order of magnitude more expensive. In addition to everything, the substrate at low temperatures turns ceramic panels simply into a coating that ... breaks when a bullet hits.

• Domestic ceramic armor is made on a substrate of aluminum, it is about 10-15% heavier, but more reliable and works in frosty weather. For Italians, the joints between ceramic panels are covered simply with steel armor, the resistance of which is also doubtful. The Italians retort quickly: "... our technical documentation allows up to 15% of weakened areas of the surface area." That is, it turns out that 2-3 m2 of Iveco armored capsules are not protected!

[evil hamster]

Dear, you are not fair to the Tiger it does not make sense to demand mine resistance from it, as no one required it during its development. The tiger was made with the money of the Arabs and our MO did not give him any TK, the Tiger M is just a tiger doped to mind with a domestic engine. Note that the Tiger M 3 has a ballistic protection rating of GOST in a circular and 5 in the forehead. Why do you ask so little? The answer is obvious. The MO ordered it so and that its mine protection is limited to 600 gr. under the bottom - this is also agreed with the MO. The tiger has long been exploited in small batches in the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs and everyone knows its strengths and weaknesses. And therefore, the comedy that unfolded in 2010, when dragging Makarov and Popovkin, SUDDENLY found the absence of PM sewn up on the Tiger, except that it could not be called a farce. When they gave the task to Tiger M they did not know that it was needed ??? Understand correctly, I’m not against Iveka as such - it’s a patrol car tested by military experience and it’s stupid to doubt its properties, they are proven both at the training ground and during real bombings, but blaming one product for the lack of properties was not required of it, and quickly sign up for buying another is not an option.
Iveco costs us not very cheap, Murakhovsky wrote that the cost of the Voronezh lynx last year was 20 ml rubles. with a batch of 60 pieces. Just compare, the extreme T90A in 2010 cost the state 70ml. rubles apiece, recently ran information that Typhoon-U in the state defense order 2013 will cost the country 35 ml. rub apiece for a batch of 30, and Typhoon-K, it seems like even 30 ml. rub with the same batch. And this, just in case, is a hefty truck with more protection than Ivekomin’s protection, level 4 ballistic protection in a circle, including glazing and payload, almost correspondingly with Ivek. Is it too expensive for a five-seater bronivichike with zero localization?
I understand that life is more expensive than money, but the fact is that our war in the Caucasus at 99 began (I do not consider the Yeltsin period because it is simply pointless) and where is the MPI troops? Okr Medved (not the one now for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the one that used to be) carried out the samples, showed them, shot, detonated, didn’t produce anything, opened new niokra, and as time went on and the conflict flowed into another phase 10 years passed, and people like I skated and rode on the Feds, I'm sorry I do not believe that industry could not quickly make sane mrap, just in the bowels of the ordering structures the MO did not feel the need, apparently, and suddenly they saw and sounded about the life of a soldier, about traveling BMP 3 coffins, etc., and they immediately grabbed the first one that came to hand. And the stories about the shit of domestic technology, which regularly rushed their high goals of the Moscow Region, are just an attempt to cover up their incompetence.
However, the industry here is also not fluffy, I understand the damn stool, Makarov and others like that, Iveco pull the brakes of the Tiger, the Wolf and all that. But the ecstasy from the company VPK, which is part of such a small group of GAZ, found the loot to print all sorts of shit in the press, but to blow up the Tiger 6A, the Wolf, and the Bear for their money and put the videos on the Internet, thereby shutting up all the whiners, was not found. Well, how is this to be spent ...

[Lopatov]

At prices: Iveco LMV from the manufacturer cost us 256 thousand euros. Over 10 million. Typhoons are purchased for 36 million apiece.

Concerning the military-industrial complex: http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/18494/ ZAO "Corporation" Zashchita "began later, but they also managed to carry out explosive tests.

[evil hamster]

At prices, you are not with me, you and Murakhovsky argue, I tend to trust him.

[Lopatov]

This is open information. For Iveco - from customs, on Typhoons - from information on state purchases for this year.

[evil hamster]

I simply said and rounded the typhoons from memory, I didn’t find the digits for Kamazovsky (on the tablet that Morkushin published), you are probably right.
And for centuries, they didn’t understand through customs, how did the finished products go or how did they complete the parts?

[Lopatov]

And there it is not known which "Typhoons" will be purchased. Name and number - 30 pieces. Most likely all samples. For military and other tests.

As for "Iveco" - just finished cars. One of them took part in driving through the snowdrifts. Ours can be somewhat more expensive due to the costs of organizing the assembly.

[Pimply]

It is worth noting that the Tigers are compared in the basic configuration, without armor, with Iveco with mine protection. And from experience, a machine without mine protection against a mine-like one somewhere has a difference of two and a half to three times. A tiger with mine protection - if one appeared - would cost a little cheaper than Iveco. And even more expensive

[Pimply]

I have a problem not with the Tiger car - although there is a separate discussion about its problems, starting from the fig assembly, and ending with the fact that the 215 horsepower motor is twice as large as the foreign analogue in 230.

The problem is in the web of lies that have been woven around him, that pushing, and pushing a perfectly suitable machine into a niche that is not intended for it.

And about the terms of reference they didn’t let me say so. Tiger 6A was promised several years ago. So far, there is only a layout. Mine protection trends started several years ago. Who prevented the development of something in advance?
Why did the same "Defense" manage to blow up the Scorpion, which was built from scratch, and the Tiger was never blown up?

Why did the Arabs manage to make Nimr according to the third standard of defense insecurity?

[evil hamster]

Quote: Pimply

I have a problem not with the Tiger car - although there is a separate discussion about its problems, starting from the fig assembly, and ending with the fact that the 215 horsepower motor is twice as large as the foreign analogue in 230.

Do not let us not. On SMP1,2 stand Cummins B5.9 205, on STS stands Cummins B5.9 215 - respectively 5,9 liters, 215 hp, 670 Nm at 1500 rpm. And on the Tiger M is the YaMZ 5347-10 - 4,4 liters., 215 hp 710 N. m. At 1300-1600 about. As we can see, YaMZ is smaller in displacement, and has more torque at the same power. It is just a high 900 mm shopping mall, nevertheless designed for somewhat large machines.

Quote: Pimply

The problem is in the web of lies that have been woven around him, that pushing, and pushing a perfectly suitable machine into a niche that is not intended for it.

The bed is here on both sides, and no one tiger M shoves like a mrap.

Quote: Pimply

And about the terms of reference they didn’t let me say so. Tiger 6A was promised several years ago. So far, there is only a layout. Mine protection trends started several years ago. Who prevented the development of something in advance?
Why did the same "Defense" manage to blow up the Scorpion, which was built from scratch, and the Tiger was never blown up?

Yes, I actually do not protect the cor. VPK, I just want to note that in the current situation, both camps are to blame.

Quote: Pimply

Why did the Arabs manage to make Nimr according to the third standard of defense insecurity?

Duc probably wanted money invested. In fairness, there is the Wolf project, which was originally designed to undermine and which was typically done in advance, and as I understand it, according to the ToR of the Defense Ministry and its financing (correct if I am mistaken), so to say, nothing could be done before the plans for Eve. On the other hand, 2 questions arise. 1. What is so slow for fishing? 2. to MO why the hell have we got it if we already invested in the development of the Wolf? I have no answers to these questions

[Pimply]

If you read the articles - that’s exactly what they shove.

Iveco and Wolf are different cars. The wolf is just running in. While they will conduct tests, while they will establish production, bugs ... Saturation with machines will go to the year 2016, at best they will make the first thousand. At the closure of this three-five year old hole, someone else's car is needed. And slowly, because the design does not speak, do it. But the technological lag has not disappeared.

[Strezhevchanin]

Iveco LMV M65

[Strezhevchanin]

Quote: Ascetic

Winter. 21 Research Institute of Bronnitsy

Praised Hammer Wabche Sulso striped but asphalt .

[bask]

Quote: Ascetic

lobbying went with emphasis on the best mine defense of Iveco. (protection class

Why only, Iveco ,, French Naxter ,, Aravis ,,, Excellent for all customers at one price

[Lopatov]

But this is a good car. Sorry, not fused.

[Pimply]

Designed to protect against WU. And help, if normally done. Because WUs have certain statistics of use, and the same Lynx, with most variants of people, will save when undermined. But the Tiger is unlikely. In addition, KAZ has now been developed for Lynx,

[Tsoi is alive]

Scratched the "tiger" in ambush
GAZ-233036 - SPM-2 "Tiger" ballistic protection level 5 class; armor 7 mm
Grade 5, protection against: SVD, AK-74, AKM, 12th caliber, TT.
Auto-swap wheels withstand 4 hits easily

.

[Pimply]

Well? Was he fired upon with small arms? And do you know that, for example, in another case, an armored gazelle was blown up and there were three corpses? And the protection there is about the same from bullets, except that there is no automatic wheel inflation. We're talking about mine protection. And in the Caucasus they blow up regularly.

[cooper100]

Will there be civil cars? I would like to buy, so to speak, the answer to Humer

[ariy_t]

There is a long time ago, on New Year's Eve in Moscow, even an accident with a tiger was created ..

[DEfindER]

Quote: cooper100

Will there be civil cars?

I'm afraid the amers will not allow the Tiger to appear in the civilian world, otherwise no one will take the Hammers, and in Russia they are selling well ..
we have the same honesty who has the dough more and is right, so that the sticks in the wheels will be inserted anyway ..

[lelikas]

So Hamm has long been Chinese?

[Kyrgyz]

Quote: lelikas

So Hamm has long been Chinese?

It was not sold to the Chinese, they simply curtailed the program and that’s it

[Kyrgyz]

Quote: DEfindER

otherwise no one will take the hammers, but in Russia they sell well ..

Are you laughing? he is always in the ranking of sales on the last line, nobody needed him with such a price and such wretched decoration and comfort as all Americans, I would like this to be taken into account when releasing the civil Tiger

[Corsair]

The Civil Tiger in the form that I saw looks handsome (there is someone). I won’t say anything about the running ones, but there is hope that the inclinations of all-roundness will continue.

[Pimply]

Do you know that hammers have not been trending civil for a long time? And look for a review of a civilian user of the Tiger - there is a couple in nete.

[Joker]

Will there be civil cars? I would like to buy, so to speak, the answer to Humer

I don’t advise, if you were planning to go hunting, it’s better to take the UAZ Patriot, according to the reviews of the Tiger, an unfortunate build quality.

[Fitter65]

Quote: cooper100

Will there be civil cars? I would like to buy, so to speak, the answer to Humer

I have been asking him since last year.

[Kyrgyz]

Quote: Fitter65

I have been asking him since last year.

Have a serial car?

[Lopatov]

http://wideworld.ru/gaz/3121/

Purely civilian version, GAZ-3121 "Tiger-2"

[AlNikolaich]

I saw photos of the undermined Iveco, and South African cars with mine protection.
the impressions are terrible. Tall cars (with a V-shaped bottom) flip over very much (you can’t assemble the bones), and at Iveco the engine compartment is torn off, the doors are torn down and it seems like the capsule of the body is intact, but the bulletproof glass is all cracked. In the course of the crew died ...
I can hardly imagine the protection against a land mine ... If you fix the seats on the ceiling, then your legs are still on the floor ... And if there is an explosion in pressure surges in the cabin, what? Concussion or barotrauma 100%, at best ... A modern mine is not 1kg of ammonal, but as a rule art. projectile caliber so xnumx or so. And even if the crew remained alive and well (God forbid), they can still attack a stopped armored car, but how much will the armor protection weaken after an explosion? So the armored car needs optimal, with balanced protection. As the respected Alekseev said:
"Cars are not designed to protect against TCP and mines. Yes, they are armored. They can slightly cover from anti-personnel, no more.
And the place of armored personnel in the line of weapons and military equipment of the ground forces is far from the first in importance, rather the one hundred and first. "

[Pimply]

Of course, of course not intended. I wonder how many times I would be dead with that logic.

[AlNikolaich]

Have you already been blown up in an armored car?

[Pimply]

Yes, autumn 2001 to spring 2002, several subversions.

[AlNikolaich]

I would like first-hand details ...

[Pimply]

What details about the explosions? Unpleasant

[AlNikolaich]

It’s clear that it’s not honey. Thank God alive ... And the details are of interest, sorry for cynicism, what kind of machine, the approximate power of VU, what damage to equipment
turned out, and what about drugs?

[Pimply]

Suf was, I do not remember, the first or second. Like the first one. Israeli car on an American wheelbase.

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/transport/vehicles/m-240.html

IEDs were of low power, at the beginning of the 2000s their powerful ones were rarely made, they were laid mainly along the edges of the road. The car was armored mainly from bullets and fragments. Reinforced suspension. After the intensification of the mine war, first the armored Hammers began to be used, and then - when it was demobilized - special vehicles with mine protection. They appeared in 2004, if I am not mistaken, a little earlier than that of the Americans.

In parallel, but this is already a long time ago, analogs of the Federal were used.

Damage, glory to Gd, was minimal in all the bombings. Only once was something serious - the hood from the sidewall seemed to have sank and the spring bent. Well, there is shrapnel sidewall secla.

[AlNikolaich]

Business. I looked at the link, I remembered. In the early 90's in the USSR, the news often flashed. I was still young, the Palestinians had some sort of other intifada, there they threw stones at the IDF, and in response, they fired gas grenades from the M16 grenade launcher and rubber bullets ... Yes, there were times ... Better stones, rubber bullets and tear gas than now, a rocket from water pipes and a shaitan belt ... Then, along the way, landmines were not laid yet. And it seems like the relationship between the Palestinians and the Israelis was different, they fought, yes. But there was no such blood. And we hoped that
fight, and then make up ...
Anyway, it’s good that he remained alive, the armor of the machine, given that the JEEP-CJ chassis is lightweight, it was also armored ...
I need you Eugene alive in this world, I need ...
(if that, for YOU-I'm sorry)

[Corsair]

There was no absolute protection against bombings and defeats by anti-tank weapons, there is not and never will be. There will always be some sort of bearded thistle who will lay, infection, a couple of extra Kg TNT

[Pimply]

Right. But for one such - a couple of hundred, which are laid down less.

[AlNikolaich]

Unofficial statistics on the Chechen events show that the most popular high-explosive mine burial shell is an 152 mm howitzer with an electric bolt. It weighs kilograms under 45, of which kilograms are 15-20 explosives. And the striking elements and explosives in one bottle, and easier to lay, dug a hole, laid, removed wires, covered with stones, then earth, and that’s all ...
And the effect of the application is fantastic ... A tower is knocked down from a tank ...

[tor11121]

not bad looking. and the rubber is properly shod.

[cooper100]

Fitter65,
But what is the civilian version called, and where can you look at it?

[phantom359]

cooper100Is there enough money? (joke). A good car, it will be very good if it completely replaces everything ever.

[Romch]

Our Krasavelles are still nice

[Geisenberg]

At least something ...

[Fitter65]

Quote: cooper100

Fitter65, but what is the civilian version called, and where can you look at it?

In June last year, 2012, a colleague from N. Novgorod brought their automobile magazine, I don’t remember the name Chesslov, but there it was called TIGER, it showed the weight of such silver in the photo, there was still an advertisement there VEPRY, The guys climbed over the Internet, I'm on it’s a little tough in this matter, it came out in a simple configuration. About 1,2 llamas. There are a lot of useful things, especially for taiga. We have already figured out the costs, it is equal to 2 Shishig.

[Uzoliv]

Of course, a Tiger-type car is needed in the army. The fact that the car is still "raw" is a fact. And it's not even about the quality of the assembly, a number of parts cannot be manufactured even in accordance with GOST, there is no high-quality modern equipment. While the car will be produced in small series, the manufacturer is not interested in it, there are a lot of hemorrhoids, but there is no return. Another thing is if it goes into production, it will already be possible to invest in equipment and send appropriate personnel to this matter. And only after that it will be possible to overcome all kinds of disadvantages and disadvantages identified during operation.

[chuckling]

mine protection and a tank with mine protection exists

?

[ultra]

Yes !!! A cast-iron frying pan under the ass of the driver !!!

[I think so]

I've seen a link to testing tigers and other cars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQ68_kjqqU

[avt]

You know me as a big NOT specialist Here's what kind of children's question interests. Iveka spoke all such protected from explosions. Well, the Italians did not give their samples to undermine, we take their word for it. But who prevented the stool from delivering its first serial with the Tiger and tearing both? Well, airplanes are always tested for strength, even if they break it. Here, he would show on television what happiness the military has piled on. Like does not go like a Tiger, but de protected to horror. Or did he collect Iveka for his hard-earned money, was it a pity to break it?

[Pimply]

Tiger tore. For 200 g of TNT. Iveco is used by 10 countries in combat conditions.

[Strezhevchanin]

Quote: Pimply

Tiger tore. 200 g of TNT

It was yesterday, and tomorrow hell knows There is much room for the tiger to grow, and the YaMZ engines have established themselves as indestructible (as jokes in Siberia: for fools and drunkards) it remains to modify the file and there will be cause for envy, I have no doubt

[Pimply]

Only here they do not drag 6A. And in terms of power they are slightly inferior to their Western counterparts, as far as I remember, and in size are twice as large.

[SEM]

Power in the order of 220 l / s fireplaces (we tried without question and on the highway 120 km / h without problems and without any complaints, in the pictures the location of the chairs and armchairs is better than on the previous version + booking again by sight is difficult to say, but the 5th class will provide, and so 3. Weak point of the winch. The weight of the machine is large and 5t winch (pulled out immediately with the "roots")

[Strezhevchanin]

Yeah .... 3 times more, the driver sits on the engine, and the fighting squad sits on the armored personnel carrier. Well, compare

[niknik]

Something on your little picture is all the upside down. Ballistic protection for all for some reason is written according to STANAG however the data is according to GOST. According to GOST, the ballistic protection of Iveco LMV - 6a, Tiger-M - 3, Wolf - 6a. But mine protection is considered in Russia according to STANAG, there is no standard. LMV - 2a (6kg under the bottom), Tiger-M - 1 (hand grenade under the bottom), Wolf - 2a.

From what nose the compiler of this picture picked out Old - it is not clear. And I advise you to check the information before posting, so as not to become disgraced.

[AlNikolaich]

Let's separate the flies from the cutlets. All modern specialists refer to MRAP technology, which is supposedly necessary. When creating a light armored car (like Lynx, Tiger), they want decent protection from shelling and undermining from it. Given that the V-shaped bottom of the armored car has the greatest resistance to undermining, in order to increase the internal space of the car, it is necessary to increase its height (on Ukrainian Kraze and South African cars over 3 meters), the center of gravity is higher. The chances to roll over are naturally greater, and controllability will suffer (no one thought about this?). Corresponding to the height, the side projection of the machine also increases, the armor of which is unlikely to withstand something more powerful than the 7,62x54. If you hit such a target, you yourself guess what will happen ... So you need to reduce the profile (target area)! Reduce protection against undermining (V-shaped bottom will not work already ..)
In short, a vicious circle.
You can get out of it with a general increase in the dimensions and weight of the machine (new MRAP machines on the Ural and Kamaz chassis are described on the website). And leave light armored vehicles alone ... It will not work out and get pleasure and stay a virgin. Pimpy wrote that 10 countries use Iveco. Let them use ... They have nothing better than him ... (although all the shortcomings have already been put on the shelves of it). Do the tiger guys! he is a priori better!
He has an all-welded body, independent hodovka (from an armored personnel carrier), brought to mind, and there will be no better car!

[Lopatov]

Quote: AlNikolaich

They have nothing better than him ...

The same British have a full MRAP, Iveco use

[expert2008]

Bumpy writes a lot, but not everything should be taken seriously. Among the 10 countries that bought this "rozhno-iveko" such belligerent states as: Norway, Croatia, Belgium, Slovakia ... Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia are still missing, a military parade of these gnomes we all recently, through tears of laughter, watched. Here, most likely, we should talk about a democratically imposed choice, or NATO-pushing (pushing, pushing). You need to do your own, and not listen to Pimples.

[Pimply]

Norway is fighting in Afghanistan - you do not know? 515. Croatia, too. 278 people. Belgium - 524. Slovakia - 330. Yes, apparently they are not bellicose. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania also hold units there, the most combat-ready - special forces, as a rule. Run-in passes. Do not know?

Do you know how many explosions of IEDs in Afghanistan were counted in 2011, for example? 16000.

[AlNikolaich]

Once again I urge you to think objectively. When a pilot is ejected from a fighter, it is overloaded with 9G. After that, the likelihood that he will become disabled percent 30, and percent 60, that he will not be able to fly anymore (according to American data, according to our seats, everything is more optimistic). When a light armored car is blown up on a landmine (normal, which is actually laid, and not on a child clapperboard), the overload acting on the crew can reach in peak at 15-20G (on a light armored car, on a heavy one it is much less). In addition, a pressure jump (up to 70 atmospheres) and another acoustic shock. And nothing that the seats are suspended from the ceiling or walls ... The legs are on the floor, their bones are instantly destroyed by lightning-fast deflection of the floor from a wave of pressure ... so there’s three or four kilograms of mine who will survive the disabled person not only physically, but also mentally (the lamp shakes off), over a five-mass grave ... It is useless to equip a light armored car with mine protection. MRAP must be a large machine and most importantly heavy.
Almost on the topic, but close: The directors of the NGO special materials (SPB) asked the journalists (it was at the beginning of the 90 years): - Tell me, is it possible to make a helmet that can withstand a shot from the SVD ?, to which he replied, We can do it, only when such a bullet enters the helmet casts his head so that it breaks its neck with its mass ...

[Lopatov]

Quote: AlNikolaich

the overload acting on the crew can reach at peak 15-20G

This is if the fighter is rigidly connected to the body of the vehicle. But in the case of Iveco, this is not the case. The first line of defense is a v-shaped bottom, the second is controlled destruction, the third is the suspension of the chairs from the ceiling, the fourth is the shock absorbers of the chair itself.

By the way, the legs are not on the floor. And he himself does not bend, because it is v-shaped.

[AlNikolaich]

[
Choi is alive RU Today, 01: 16 ↑
- 0 +
Same thing with Iveco.
Since when did NATO STANAG certificates and NATO standards suddenly become a de facto document for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the basis for adoption?
July 2010. on the road between Herat and Shindant, as a result of a driver’s error (without any external influences), the LMV M65 turned over, the senior corporal Ponsiano Rosario 25 died, 4 an alpine parachute regiment.

Another example. When detonating with a capacity of no more than 1 kg THT ??? under the right front wheel, in the lower part of the so-called "armored capsule", a hole with an area
up to 30 square docimeters (the result of the frame assembly of the armored structure using bolt fasteners), through which the right front door and the upper hatch were pulled out by excessive pressure of the blast wave, The rear right door remained in place, but the upper part of the door moved away from the body by 5-10 cm under the action overpressure from inside the machine. With such excess pressure, crew members of this vehicle have no chance of surviving.
Although iveco developers are trying to convince the opposite, because HATO standards allow this. According to them, a crew member is considered to have survived after being blown up on an IED or a mine if he is still breathing. And the fact that he will die in 10 minutes after the evacuation from a damaged car is another section of the statistics of losses.
Regarding the comparison according to STANAG and GOST.
As you know, the devil lurks in the details.
According to STANAG, it is considered that protection meets the declared standard if 50% of bullets (or other damaging elements) plus one is not penetrated. An example is a queue from a machine gun 20 bullets and if 9 bullets pierce it, but 11 is not, then the level of protection will be considered normal. In other words, if Iveco LMV M65 is fired from SVD with B-32 bullets from a distance of 100 to 200 meters, then 4 bullets from the fired store (the first 6 will destroy ceramic armor) will kill at least 2 crew members, not to mention the line from PKM .
According to Russian GOSTs, this is unacceptable. In our country, the formation of a bulge with a microcrack through which kerosene is LEAKED is considered to be penetration, and if this happens even after one hit from a hundred, the protection will not correspond to the norm.

source V. Semyonov "Golden rake" review of the Army and Navy №6-2010

I also carefully looked at the photo. On Iveco, instead of a V-shaped bottom, there is a pallet with beveled edges and a flat center, and bolted. A similar device, only of a different shape and simpler, is sold in car dealerships under the name "armor underbody protection". And the bottom itself cannot have a V-shape, the design of the machine will not allow! An armored car was created on the basis of the car of the same name, the layout is standard for an SUV, there is a transmission tunnel along the car, there is a transfer case and cardan shafts, all this is recessed inside the cabin. Here, between the cabin floor and the pallet, "there is controlled destruction" in the form of armor plates and Kevlar "Mattresses". And the legs of the crew are still on the floor of the cabin! And the result is unchanged. And when the dynamic impulse from the explosion of several tens of G, the shock absorbers in the seat will not help ...

[Pimply]

V-shaped bottom is not the only solution. In nete there is a diagram of how Iveco works. Quite an original solution.

[evil hamster]

From memory, when leaving the K36, the pilot acts up to 16-18G in the head-pelvis direction and somewhere around 20 in the direction of the chest back

[AlNikolaich]

Thanks for the amendment.

[Demon_Ex]

This is under the explosion of the squibs, structurally selected overload. And with a spontaneous explosion?

[Pimply]

Therefore, Iveco has a multi-layer construction. Look for something. - there are quite interesting solutions.

[Horde]

Pimply, even in the forehead, at least half a spell. A hundred times he asked him to show the tests of Iveka, but WHO AND NOW THERE IS THERE, many words and nothing concrete.
Pimpled until you provide REAL tests, with the opinions of experts and with visual images of 6kg undermining tests under the Italian head, there is NO faith in you, all your words were, are, and will be CHEAP AND FICTION to fool the weakly dedicated heads.