Medium tank from BMP: ambiguous modernization of the Marder machine

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It seems that modern wars are bad for the future prospects of the main combat tanks (MBT). Large tank battles of recent years can be counted on the fingers. In modern local conflicts, tanks are not the most convenient type of equipment. The fact is that their combat potential may even be excessive to defeat most of the existing targets. At the same time, other armored vehicles are significantly behind in their fire capabilities from MBT, but they win in terms of cost. Thus, in the very near future, another revolution in the tank industry may happen. Small and not too rich countries can abandon obsolete tank models, including MBT, and switch to newer and less expensive equipment.

Last year, at Eurosatory-2012, Rheinmetall presented its version of a combat vehicle designed to fill this niche. The Germans already have experience in creating such armored vehicles - in the eighties, the Rheinmetall company, based on the Marder (Kunitsa) infantry fighting vehicle, commissioned by the Argentine army, created the average TAM (Tanquo Argentino Mediano) armored vehicle, is still in service. By changing the armor, combat module and a number of other systems, German engineers made a good one for their time and, more importantly, a relatively cheap tank. TAM attracted the attention of several third countries, and also caused a small number of similar projects of foreign authorship.

Medium tank from BMP: ambiguous modernization of the Marder machine

MBT TAM (Tanquo Argentino Mediano - "Argentine Medium Tank")


The new armored vehicle is also based on the BMP Marder and to some extent resembles the previous TAM. In any case, when creating a medium tank with the Marder Medium MBT code designation, exactly the same approach was used as in the eighties. The original "Marder" has undergone a number of improvements, but the main structural elements were left unchanged. Thus, the armored engine compartment of the armored car remained in the front, the driver’s workplace retained its location, and the new light tower was replaced by a new one, with weapons typical of tanks of past decades.

The existing photos of Medium MBT show new booking modules covering the entire surface of the armored hull. Judging by the characteristic seams between the slabs-blocks, “Marder” received additional mounted modules, and the native booking remained the same, unless it got some details for attaching the armored modules. The declared combat weight of the Medium MBT is 43 tons, from which we can draw some conclusions regarding the weight of the additional booking and its characteristics. According to reports, all bookings of a new medium tank withstand a hit of projectiles with a caliber of at least 30 millimeters. It is likely that the frontal projection is even tighter and protects the crew and units of the machine from more serious ammunition. In addition to its own armor, the turret of the tank has additional anti-cummer grids on the stern.




In addition to the new modules, additional reservations Marder Medium MBT is equipped with a gun turret. This unit in appearance resembles the tower tank Leopard 1 with its characteristic sides and a wedge-shaped mask. The appearance of the Medium MBT tower transparently hints that in order to reduce the cost of the project, the engineers of Reintmetall simply reworked the old tower in order to maintain the necessary level of protection and weight reduction to the level at which it could be installed on the Marder chassis. Another version also has the right to life, according to which the “iron” part of the Medium MBT tower is completely similar to the “Leopard-1” tower, and only its electronic content has been upgraded. Regardless of the specific method of creation, the development of the tower through the use of old developments has further reduced the cost of the project and, as a consequence, the price of each instance of the new tank.

In the Medium MBT turret, an 105-millimeter rifled gun made by the Italian company Oto Melara, stabilized in two planes, is installed. With this tool can be used all available in the NATO countries shells of the appropriate caliber. Dimensions and "origin" of the tower suggest that the pointing angles remain the same - from -9 to + 20 degrees. From the same considerations, we can conclude about the ammunition in the 45-50 shots. The additional armament of the prototype of the new tank presented at Eurosatory consists of one 7,62 mm caliber coaxial machine gun and two four-barreled grenade launchers. Probably, there are also fastenings for the anti-aircraft machine gun on the roof of the turret, however, it is not present on the existing photos of the experienced tank.

The exact composition of the electronic equipment Medium MBT has not been announced, however, it is known that the tank has a radio station for communication with other tanks and infantry, an internal intercom, as well as an aiming complex. According to reports, to reduce the cost of the car, the latter has characteristics at the level of sighting systems of early modifications of the Leopard 2 tank. Obviously, this is no longer enough to fight modern tanks, but this technique is not a supposed opponent of the new Medium MBT. At the same time, it is possible to retrofit tanks in accordance with the wishes of customers.




We can already say that the Marder Medium MBT medium tank will not be able to compete with modern main battle tanks. Because of its specific "origin", a tank converted from an infantry fighting vehicle cannot, by definition, have good protection. Therefore, in the event of a collision between any modern MBT and Medium MBT, the latter will not be guaranteed to be a winner. The decisive factor will be crew training. It should not be forgotten that the Medium MBT should not be at war with the main tanks. Its main opponents are light and medium armored vehicles, as well as enemy fortifications, i.e. all those objects that can not be destroyed by means of small weapons or small-caliber artillery, and also are not an expedient target for a “full-fledged” tank.

Nevertheless, it must be admitted that the long-barreled 105-mm rifled gun can be a sufficiently effective tool against obsolete tanks. As shown by the combat operation of the South African armored reconnaissance vehicle Rooikat, such a weapon is quite capable of striking tanks with homogeneous armor like the Soviet T-54 / 55 and T-62. With a good sighting system, a lighter armored vehicle will have certain advantages over outdated tanks.

Abilities Medium MBT in relation to the fight with the tanks suggest an approximate market where he can find a buyer. These are third world countries who wish to have modern and, at least, well-equipped armored forces, but cannot afford to purchase a sufficient number of “full-fledged” MBTs. In such conditions, a poor country does not have a wide choice: either buy used repaired equipment, or a new one, but obviously inferior to leading models of the world market. At the same time, it should be noted that the third world countries almost always have to arm themselves to contain or fight with their neighbors, the same poor countries. Therefore, the acquisition of armored vehicles, similar to the Medium MBT will not put the buying country in a deliberately losing position compared to potential opponents.



For several reasons, to date, only a few projects have been created, such as the Marder Medium MBT. In the presence of objective prerequisites for the formation of the updated look of an average tank, the main armor manufacturers do not pay much attention to it yet. Perhaps the reason for this is the lack of demand for such equipment. The TAM tank at the time was interested in only a few countries besides Argentina, while the Medium MBT still remains a purely showpiece. Despite a number of laudatory remarks, over the past six months since its first demonstration, no one has initiated negotiations to begin deliveries. Perhaps it was just not time for new medium tanks. Or - which is much sadder for the Medium MBT and the like - this is a dead-end branch of the development of armored vehicles. Therefore, it is rather difficult to guess the further fate of the armored "Kunits" with the tower from "Leopard-1" and electronics from "Leopard-2".


On the materials of the sites:
http://rheinmetall-defence.com/
http://defense-update.com/
http://strangernn.livejournal.com/
20 comments
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  1. +5
    8 February 2013 09: 11
    In my opinion, an obvious dead end has been committed. It will not be cheap at all. Here, I immediately recall the aviation analogue with the F-35, they tormented it as an inexpensive Raptor, as a result, they exceeded all reasonable limits of cost.
    The only excuse for light armored vehicles today is air mobility and navigability.
    And here 43 tons, huge dimensions ... Well, pure nonsense.
    1. 0
      8 February 2013 10: 31
      Quote: Mikhado
      It will not be cheap at all.


      Most likely it will be. As I understand it, this is the modernization of the Marder BMP. New engine, hinged add. booking, tower, electronics, and everything
      1. Tjumenec72
        +2
        8 February 2013 16: 03
        new engine, outboard add. booking, tower, electronics
        - this is decent money ...
        This unit is beneficial only as a modernization of old marders.
        1. bask
          +1
          8 February 2013 20: 29
          Quote: Tjumenec72
          This unit is only beneficial as an upgrade to old marders.

          Remove the turret from the MBT ,, Leopard ,, - 1. Replace it with a DBM from 10 or 30 mm with a gun. Get BMP-T level Level. When replacing the turret with a DBM, spend the released tonnes on additional booking. Polish medium tank and BMP ,, Anders ,, proved the right to exist as a universal platform. For infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled guns, and tanks.
          1. Tjumenec72
            0
            9 February 2013 15: 25
            Marder was a BMP and his armor was from a BMP - no matter what you put on the tank, he won’t.
            Remove the tower from the MBT ,, Leopard ,, - 1. Replacing it with a DBM with 10 or 30 mm with a gun. It will get a BMP-T level Namer.
            IT IS castrated Merkava and its armor is tank!
            1. Akim
              +1
              9 February 2013 15: 30
              And "Marder" is the first castrated Leopard. I've written before. The chassis became smaller by a roller in length and two cylinders were removed. Everything else is interchangeable.
              1. Tjumenec72
                0
                9 February 2013 16: 17
                The marder is not made from a tank, but RE-DESIGNED from it - the booking level is lower (originally laid down during the design).
                Namer is Merkava without a tower! He has an engine in front and a door from the rear - WAS INITIAL!
                1. Akim
                  +1
                  9 February 2013 16: 48
                  I agree that Marder and Leopard-1 are not direct, but still relatives. Merkava and Nemer initially had a heart in front and a general layout, but all the heavy modern infantry fighting vehicles made from a tank have the same power in the front lineup. like Tesmakh and Challenger or T-64A and BMPT-64 .. BTR-T stuck in the wars of the Arab-Israeli wars.
                  1. Tjumenec72
                    0
                    9 February 2013 17: 05
                    Yes, only in the case of Namer the alteration is not great, for others the ass is changed with the front - which is more complicated ...
                    1. 0
                      4 May 2014 16: 50
                      But with our BMO-T everything is much simpler - just removed the tower and put a machine gun. Well, the hatches were cut in the stern. And the rest - a clean T-72.
      2. +3
        8 February 2013 19: 28
        Quote: Spade
        As I understand it, this is the modernization of the Marder BMP. New engine, hinged add. booking, tower, electronics, and everything

        On a modern tank, additional equipment with electronics costs much more than the iron itself. That is, with a good upgrade, the Marder’s price will turn out almost like a real tank with normal armor, but without it.
        A bunch of expensive equipment with insufficient protection - the point?
        1. bask
          0
          8 February 2013 20: 33
          [media = http: //weaponscollection.com/24/1422-novye-veyaniya-v-bronetehnike.html]
          Quote: Bad_gr
          with normal booking, only without one. A bunch of expensive equipment with insufficient protection - the point

          The meaning is only use as a platform for Wed tank, BTR-T GSH for self-propelled guns.
    2. rubber_duck
      +2
      8 February 2013 18: 41
      Quote: Mikhado
      And here are 43 tons, huge dimensions ...

      That's just it. The volumes are calculated for the landing. And as for the "average" tank, God himself ordered it to be smaller than the main one and more awkward.
      1. bask
        +1
        8 February 2013 20: 45
        Quote: Bad_gr
        A bunch of expensive equipment with insufficient protection - the point?

        The only point is to create on the basis of BMP, Marder., 1-, Wed tank 2-, BTR-T 3- GSh for self-propelled guns
  2. +10
    8 February 2013 10: 06
    Most likely a hopeless direction. Unless you can use it in peacekeeping operations of low intensity. You can also choose a phrase.

    For the sake of interest, the combat group of the Syrian army.
    1. Akim
      +3
      8 February 2013 11: 18
      Kars,
      For the same money, you can buy 2-3 "flashed" tanks (Russia, Ukraine, China)
      1. bask
        +1
        8 February 2013 23: 29
        Quote: Akim
        the same money can be bought 2-3 "flashed" tanks (Russia, Ukraine, China)

        But MBTs are not needed everywhere. Good armored infantry fighting vehicles, infantry support vehicles are also required. ,, Octopus D, with a 120 mm gun. Now the Airborne Forces and Marines are simply needed. The thing is the use of light and medium tanks.
        [img] http://russianarms.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=1055 [/ img]
        1. Tjumenec72
          0
          9 February 2013 16: 33
          Powerful and high-precision but easily armored vehicles are needed for highly maneuverable wars or colonial wars (when everything has already been cleared by aviation).
          The countries of the third world (those for whom the hero of the day is calculated) are waging positional wars. They need a highly armored BMPT or an armored old MBT that can hold a hit.
    2. 0
      8 February 2013 23: 04
      Quote: Kars
      For the sake of interest, the combat group of the Syrian army.


      I saw this video earlier, there is one redhead, Slavic nationality is very hot laughing
    3. 0
      5 September 2014 10: 38
      good Well done relax and have fun
  3. +3
    8 February 2013 11: 21
    The crisis of the genre, these "mid-tank" "developments" - so, just patching up budget holes and an attempt to survive by both the manufacturer and the customer, a light wedge heel, like Elusive Joe, how playful and stupid it is, because it's no use for shish and kumysh and its withdrawing is easy. They did what they could, and the concept is adjusted for this garbage (this is the same as with wheeled tanks - they created it without knowing why, and then adjusted the scope, they say, “there will be a dashing catazzo on the asphalt, having fun firing right and left.” And the analysis of modern wars indicates on the concept of just weighting tank equipment with additional armor in the direction of monstrosity, in an attempt to increase the ability to resist manual and other anti-tank weapons in order to successfully perform the functions of supporting ground operations.
  4. Old skeptic
    +2
    8 February 2013 12: 10
    With the same success, you can attach additional armor to our BMP-3 with "Bakhchi-U" or "Sprut" and call it a medium tank, but to no avail. BMP, he is BMP, only heavier, with all the ensuing consequences and the loss of speed and maneuverability ...
    1. Akim
      +2
      8 February 2013 12: 36
      Old skeptic,
      If "Sprut" is produced for export. then it will be a new car. And the Bundeswehr is thus trying to get rid of the old "Martens".

  5. +2
    8 February 2013 13: 02
    43 tons of weight overkill for such a poorly protected machine. Road to nowhere.
    1. Akim
      0
      8 February 2013 13: 15
      Quote: mkpda
      43 tons of weight overkill for such a poorly protected machine


      It's ". Short tons". In our opinion, this is approximately 38 tons.
      1. bask
        0
        8 February 2013 23: 53
        . Well, 23 tones just right. at
  6. Avenger711
    -3
    8 February 2013 13: 13
    The fact is that their combat potential may even be excessive to defeat most of the available targets.


    Yes, yes, yes, it is necessary to send a soldier into battle on foot, generally without armor, it will be very cheap.
    1. Akim
      +1
      8 February 2013 13: 23
      Quote: Avenger711
      Yes, yes, yes, it is necessary to send a soldier into battle on foot, generally without armor, it will be very cheap.

      In June 2011, the A5 was blown up in Afghanistan on a makeshift landmine. Killed 1 and injured five Germans. And what about our BMP?
  7. Avenger711
    0
    8 February 2013 13: 24
    The case is huge, it is immediately clear that it was originally intended for the carriage of soldiers, the protection of such an reserved volume is still a challenge.

    The idea itself is kind of not very delusional, at least you can consider an air transportable (on IL-76) version weighing more than 30 tons and booking from the calculation of protection only against cumulative ammunition (here all sorts of heavy additives like depleted uranium , Not needed). Protection, though very desirable circular.
  8. +1
    8 February 2013 16: 42
    The idea was not impressive. Although, for those who can not afford to buy modern MBT, this option will work. Everything is better than nothing)))
    1. bask
      +1
      8 February 2013 22: 27
      Attempts were made to build tanks from the BMP in the 90s. A light tank based on the BMP ,, ASCOD ,,, LT 105-LPT / ./ Weight 26 tons. With automatic loading M68A1 from ,, Gemeral Dynamix ,,, Diesel -600 hp, cruising range of 600 cells. Speed ​​of 70 cells of hour. But not one country showed interest in this product.
      1. 0
        9 February 2013 14: 49
        they probably didn’t like these cars at the price, but maybe for other reasons. What is the difference between such machines and MBTs - with less weight, less armor and less firepower. And why tanks are used in modern local conflicts, in most cases the tank will work as a sau, which would destroy the enemy’s fortifications. Isn’t it easier to strengthen BMP weapons for these purposes?
    2. bask
      0
      8 February 2013 23: 51
      ,, Strut D ,, pros
      it needs sun airborne
  9. rubber_duck
    +2
    8 February 2013 18: 49
    In the order of Petrosyanism. smile If you don’t know how to get rid of old MRAPs at the end of the occupation of foreign territories, add a tower from the T-54 confiscated from the enemy to the roof of the body, paint the structure with rubber enamel, weld a laser rangefinder, which is more expensive to take back to the metropolis than to make a new one and enter the market with the innovative wheeled medium tank concept. laughing
    1. bask
      -1
      8 February 2013 22: 41

      Everything new is well forgotten old .. We also need in Russia what to do with the BMP remaining from the USSR, 1,2 ... We need modernization., At least to the BMP-3 level at the installation of the tower, Bahcha, and MBT-T -72, with the creation on their base of heavy BMP-T.
      1. Akim
        +1
        8 February 2013 22: 47
        Quote: bask
        to the BMP-3 level at the installation of the tower ,, Bahcha ,,


        You represent the dimensions. "Cleaver" eats up two places, and not like the overall "Bakhcha".
        1. bask
          0
          8 February 2013 23: 13
          Quote: Akim
          dimensions. "Cleaver" eats up two places, and not like the overall "Bakhcha".

          I agree, then one of the options is the installation. ,, Cleaver, this is a vulgar century ... Then one of the options is the installation of DBMs with 23 mm, 30,, 57mm guns. This is not a sister of more than one place in the BMP. As an example BTR ,, Pandur, 2 with DBM RCWS-30
      2. bask
        0
        8 February 2013 23: 22
        Quote: Akim
        You represent the dimensions. "Cleaver" eats up two places, and not like the overall "Bakhcha".

        ,, Triad ,, on the BMP ,, ASCOD ,,,, Pizaro. ,, Not ,, ate ,, places.
        1. Akim
          +1
          9 February 2013 07: 30
          Quote: bask
          Triplet ,, on BMP ,, ASCOD ,,,, Pizaro. ,, Not ,, ate ,, places

          Well, firstly, this Austrian BMP has more dimensions than the three.
          Here I am an example of the Polish modernization of the BWP-40 with a Swedish turret with a 40 mm gun. . There are 4 people left.
          1. bask
            0
            9 February 2013 08: 53
            Quote: Akim

            Well, firstly, this Austrian BMP has large dimensions

            Akim In general, I had in mind. The combat module ,, Bahcea ,, triad, Austrian, BMP ,, Ulan, is comparable in size to the BMP 1,2., Here is the Belarus-Slovak version of BMP1,, Cobra-K. .3 people ek + 7th landing.
            1. Akim
              +2
              9 February 2013 10: 10
              BMP "Ulan"
              Body length, mm 6830
              Case width mm 3640
              Height, mm 2430
              BMP-1
              Body length, mm 6735
              Case width mm 2940
              Height, mm 2068
              BMP-3
              Body length, mm 6700
              Case width mm 3300
              Height, mm 2300
              As you can see, the Austrian is closer in size to the BMP-3.
              And as for modernizations - I agree there are many of them, but "Cobra" is only a prospect, but the serial Romanian MLI-84M is worth fearing. For me, it is better than the BMP-2 and is practically not inferior to the serial BMP-1U. and even surpasses it in ATGMs.
              1. bask
                0
                9 February 2013 20: 27
                Quote: Akim
                MLI-84M - it is worth fearing. For me, it’s better than BMP-2 and is practically not inferior to serial BMP-1U. and in ATGMs even surpasses e

                BMP -2D Afghan version. The best modification. BMP 1.2.
                [img] http://karopka.ru/community/user/7474/?MODEL=22259 [/ img]
  10. Nechai
    +1
    9 February 2013 01: 25
    Quote: bask
    required. ,, Octopus D, with a 120 mm gun.

    Self-propelled anti-tank gun 2S25 "Sprut-SD" - 125-mm smoothbore gun 2A75. 18tn. Airmobile, airborne. V afloat <10 km / h. Bulletproof protection. I think. it is easy to equip with additional hinged protection, if there is no need to swim, well, after landing. And then it will be able to hold more than 30mm. More details: http://www.arms-expo.ru/049050053049124052055054.html
    But the Medium MBT is really an ambiguous typewriter. Moreover, the gloomy Teutonic genius decided to fuse not only the old Marders, but again the same old ones, at best from NZ, and even 105mm restored guns. 43 tons and only 30mm shells are expensive ?! Well, you have to be rich and hate your army so much that you have to acquire this device!
    1. bask
      +1
      9 February 2013 01: 53
      Quote: Nechai
      After all, the gloomy Teutonic genius decided to fuse not only the old Marders, but again the same old ones, at best from NZ, and even 105mm restored guns. 43 tons and only 30mm shells are expensive ?!

      About ,, Octopus D ,,,, wrote in a post above. There is another BMP developed on the basis of MT-MS. Poles BMP BWP-200
  11. Nechai
    0
    9 February 2013 01: 51
    "... all the armor of the new medium tank withstands the impact of not less than 30 millimeters. "- author's error. "no more than 30mm" Otherwise, it turns out absurd - it holds 203,2 mm, and from a 9 mm pistol bullet into dust ...
    1. Tjumenec72
      0
      9 February 2013 16: 43
      Holds any shell, afraid of only a knife attack)
    2. bask
      0
      9 February 2013 20: 35
      Quote: Nechai
      its 30 millimeters. "- the author's mistake."

      BMP -2D. The best modification of BMP1.2.



  12. +1
    9 February 2013 13: 21
    The claimed combat weight of the Medium MBT is 43 tons

    By weight T-72. Only without booking the latter.
    the approved weapon is capable of hitting tanks with homogeneous armor like the Soviet T-54/55 and T-62. If you have a good sighting system

    Well, what's the problem with putting these systems on the T-54/55 and T-62.
    When compared with the declared device, they have only equalities and advantages.
    Advantages:
    1. Reservation
    2. Price
    Equalities:
    Both do not swim.
    Unification on the basis of the T-55 is both Bram and even BMP (akharit).
    Plus device:
    maybe moving faster.
    So what's the point of buying a device if it's easier to buy an aiming system on the T-55?
    a lighter armored car will have certain advantages over obsolete tanks.

    Which place is it lighter in? T-62 weighs 37 tons. The declared mass of the device is 43 tons.
  13. malkor
    +1
    10 February 2013 10: 58
    need a heavy BMP for fighting in a city with a weakly armed enemy, learn from Israel, you need equipment for a large-scale war of attrition - learn from Russian
    1. Akim
      0
      10 February 2013 11: 35
      Quote: malkor
      need a heavy BMP for fighting in a city with a weakly armed enemy, learn from Israel

      Israel's experience with heavy infantry fighting vehicles does not suit us. There is the largest river Jordan - 20 m wide. And here you remember Gogol: "A rare bird will fly to the middle of the Dnieper ..."
      A combined approach is needed: the tank brigade should not have three mechanized (motorized rifle) companies, but the 4th. Three on heavy infantry fighting vehicles. One is reinforced in the lungs.