French "Mistral" and Russian diesel fuel

143

Still, I'm a good predictor. And one of my best prognostic topics is our dear helicopter landing. Dear our ship dock, somewhere even a universal landing ship.

Well, yes, of course - "Mistral."

Most recently, I wrote, celebrating that the second pair of Mistrals, which were to be built here, our leaders refused. Not that I directly predicted this, but all the pathos of my mistral series called for it. At least to this.

And now a much more significant coincidence has happened.

It turned out that in Russia there are no such fuel and lubricants that are necessary for the operation of the Mistral. And combustible (fuel) and lubricants - they say, Comrade Rogozin even wrote about this on his twitter. About the fuel, I, however, did not write - I could not think of such a thing. But about the lubricant - he wrote literally. Want - read here. And for those who are too lazy, I will quote:

“There are consumables for the power plant: engine and transmission oils, liquid and thick lubricants, lapping pastes and washing liquids, etc. And they are all spelled out in the operating instructions. And where to get all this, dozens, probably, names, for French diesel engines and electric motors, compressors and pumps? Again - factory licensed? On foreign raw materials? "


Almost complete coincidence with what Interfax is reporting today!

And explains that

“A total of about 50 fuels and lubricants are required for helicopter carriers. Use to replace European fuels and lubricants produced in Russia is fraught with engine and other systems failure, as well as the cancellation of the factory warranty. ”


I wrote in my series: guys, I say only what comes to mind. Units of problem positions come to mind, and not really hundreds of them! Interfax confirms this statement, citing something that I did not have:

“Refueling of landing ships at sea is provided only from tankers equipped with fuel and lubricants quality control systems certified by NATO standards. We have such tankers on navy no - and never will be. It’s also impossible to imagine the option of renting foreign tankers to be included in the operational naval group of the Russian Navy with the participation of Mistral to carry out any combat mission. ”


Finally, they guessed what I had warned about three years ago (!!):

“Even in peacetime, the operation of the Mistral will most likely become a real agony for our sailors, not to mention the endangered period, and even more so about real hostilities,” said a source in the defense industry.


Citizens! I say: this is not the last! We must follow the press, and we will see how many more of those questions emerge.

Cursed questions of our time. "Mistral"

"Mistral" in St. Petersburg ... At first, I simply did not believe in the seriousness of talking about buying it.

What do we have on this topic on TV?

1. Promotion of the merits of the French steamer: they say, even the States do not have such a steep, multifunctional ship. And he will teach us modern technology.

2. Doubts of type A: why does Russia need such a ship? Where to land landings? Probably, again the deal "with the corruption component"?

3. Doubts of type B: why give money abroad, would give better to our shipbuilders. And in general, shameful to us - to us! - buy ships, the Soviet Union was able to do everything himself. And yet - let us scare off the buyers, what ships we now have and boats take. Probably, again a deal ... see p.2.

4. Guessing: the purchase of these dock-helicopter carriers is not a matter of quickly equipping the Navy (with ships that are unclear why we are needed); and not receiving foreign technology. And the question is political: France will give us support in the EU for this, and there’s a lot more and even, you see, recognizes Abkhazia.

5. Announcement: an unprecedented example of trust between Russia and a country from NATO. Like, now everyone will reach out to us.

6. Doubts of type B: how, the French will give us their latest technology! Give a piece of iron, an empty trough. We will stay with the nose ... Well, obviously a deal ... (Section 2)

I have the mood to talk about the item 6.


However, why not start from the beginning, at least briefly?

By pp 1 and 2. The steamer is really cool. Especially if you use it correctly. That is, as part of a large mix of disparate forces, it would be nice with an aircraft carrier. This is in full-scale hostilities.

Surely we have already gathered to conduct full-scale military operations on the sea routes? And to us there, to the landing site, will they sail?

And for any humanitarian rescue deliveries, the Mistral is too cool. I would say more than too much. They boast: in 2008, in the Gulf of Guinea, 5,7 and drugs were intercepted! And what, for this, you need a monster with a displacement of more than 20 thousand tons? Although yes, our “Peter the Great” was also famous for fighting with Somali pirates ...

According to paragraph 3. There are doubts. If we assume that we need Mistrals quickly, then, indeed, it is better to buy. Our half-dead factories are completely unknown when they will build this, and there is no guarantee that they will ever be built at all.

It must be said that the Soviet Union, the post-war one, could really do everything on its own, if it gave anything to the side, then from political imaginations, and only to the allies. But the pre-war, albeit under Stalin, - no. The leader of “Tashkent” is Italian, the cruiser “Kirov” can be said to be half Italian. Even Hitler bought in 1939-m heavy cruiser "Lutzov", however, unfinished. He was never completed to the "squadron" state, but, standing on the joke, he shot the Germans well ...

And Russia bought, especially in large quantities - on the eve of the Russian-Japanese war. In the same France they took armadillos, cruisers, and destroyers.

Squadron battleship "Tsarevich". Built in France. It turned out to be quite a good ship. On the basis of his project, five battleships were already built in Russia. Four of which are lost in Tsushima ... And about the fifth - read the "Moonsund" by V. Pikul

So, once again: according to paragraph 3 - and nothing particularly terrible, and theoretically, under certain conditions, it may be justified. In the event that explain, for what we need the ships of the type "Mistral", and it is fast.

There is another option for Section 3: The Ministry of Defense deliberately does not want to give money to our plants. Drink and do nothing. More precisely, they drank, they will make a third of what they should have, they will ask for the same amount, they will drink again ... and so on, until, having spent four times more years and money, they don’t roll out something that will be brought to another ten years and a hundred billion to mind And at the same time, people will be sawing, for the Ministry of Defense, not close ones, and maybe even hostile ones.

And here it is the Ministry of Defense itself that needs to be sawn off, but - 1) is much less; 2) to those who need it; 3) and will have a lively and fairly positive result, and quickly enough: one floating ship and licensing documentation.

Another thing is: will we be able to get something useful from the licensed construction of French ships, even the most supernatural. But this question overlaps with point 6, so let's get back to that later.

By pp 4, 5 reluctant to speak, not in the know. Let me just say what is clear from the most general considerations: today they will be friends, tomorrow they will be friends. All of these, we are also such, there is no reason to be indignant. So, in the reasoning of this variability: is the game worth the candle?

***

Well, now let's talk about modern technologies that the French will either give us, or they won't. Moving on to p. 6.

As one of my boss said, there are two questions in this matter. Even more.

Let's start with, so to speak, pre-technological. Is everything so simple with the basing of our equipment on the French ship?

About weapon we won't even talk. I hope no one is going to reach such idiocy as the installation of French missiles and guns. This, by the way, is common practice. For more than a century ago, steamboats came to Kronstadt from France, Germany, America without guns and torpedo tubes, which were already installed here, made in Russia.

Although here, too, not without a hitch. They say the French have begun to explore the possibility of installing our missiles. So we have to give them some information. And if we consider that today “installation” is far from only the overall and connecting dimensions (where and how many holes to drill in the deck), but also all service systems, from ammunition stores to remotes with buttons at the command center, so who is with whom will share technology ?! Earlier than getting “mistral” technologies, will we post ours to the French? Locators, communication lines, communication protocols between informational (“sensor”) systems, command transmission systems, parameter monitoring, launchers? Here, after all, it comes to the very ideology of the combat use of weapons. Tell, explain, give the documentation? Oh well…

But, let's say, I bend over, somehow decided. So what is next?

Next you need to put our helicopters. But they are completely different! Even if, say, the height of the hangar is enough - is this the only problem?

French "Mistral" and Russian diesel fuel

Ka-27 on the deck of the Mistral. But it is, window dressing. To sit down is not to be based. Let Ka-27 total on 9 cm above the regular “mystral” NH90 (5,40 m vs. 5,31 m); but, firstly, this may turn out to be critical, and secondly, but is this the only thing!


And the storage of ammunition - they are here and they are completely different! And do not think that storage is just shelving and air conditioning. There is also a test equipment, preparation for use. Our depth charges, as you understand, are tested on completely different consoles than the French. And rockets, and torpedoes, and sonar buoys. And all this is rigidly spelled out in the regulations and instructions. Who will it put? are the French in France, or are they just taking their own and - to Kronstadt?

And the system of storage and refueling, which is not a trifle, when the ship is based a half or two dozen vehicles? Our and French requirements may differ fundamentally. Why are there any complicated requirements! Our hydraulic fluid will be poured (that which fills the hydraulic system of the helicopter, all kinds of boosters-drives, analogue - brake fluid in the car), will pour our hydraulic fluid into the French storage tank, which is located somewhere in the enclosure of the helicopter hangar. And French gaskets will fall down - not because they are bad, but because they are designed for contact with French hydraulic fluid, and not with the Russian one. And, unfortunately, our helicopters, on the contrary, can only work with Russian, but not with French.

Well, gaskets will not fly, but they will begin to crack, age ten times faster than on the passport, because the hydraulic composition is not the same ... And after a year and a half, the working pipelines will run. Who checked it? Who will check it out? because time is needed, methods, equipment, money.

Gaskets - this is me for example, of course. With these concrete pads, everything is likely to be fine. I want to show how everything is not as simple as the first glance. It is known where the devil is - he is in the details ...

Hell, even the brackets on the deck, to which the sunk helicopter is attached with stretch marks, so that the wind does not blow away - we have them, our design has been worked out over half a century of landing OUR helicopters on OUR ships. There are such brackets on the Mistral flight deck, only they are the result of half a century of FRENCH practice. I'm not saying that the hooks on our cables may simply not go to the French brackets. But the landing of helicopters is many times more difficult than simply hooking the cables with hooks onto the brackets on the deck. Her technique, technical support - the fruit of years of experience, probably overshadowed by accidents and disasters. Deck helicopters are made and made with her, through suffering. And what, to refuse it? But the system is certified, rationed, guest, described in the instructions and manuals ... well, this can be considered a constant refrain, that's about everything.

There are also means and equipment for flight control, procedures and equipment for preparing the aircraft themselves, technology and material support for repairs on board ... You see, the operation of any technology is an extremely complex task, and it is solved on the basis of a certain concept of operation and combat use. Differences in this concept can lead to a fundamental incompatibility of the capabilities of the “operational environment” with the maintenance requirements of this object. If you joke: we have acetylene welding prescribed in the instructions, and a fire extinguishing system is turned on in the Mistral hangar. This is a joke, in fact, everything can be much more complicated, less obvious and more dramatic in its consequences.

Let me not say the same thing about Tanks and armored personnel carriers? It is clear that there can be anything from the instability of French coatings to our exhaust gases and ending with the electromagnetic incompatibility of “theirs” in-ship telephone communications with our tank radio stations. And who can tell where I'm joking? I cant…


Mistral dock chamber. You can see very well what may cost plus or minus a meter in the dimensions of the landing craft. Literally one meter more - and now one boat instead of two ...


Can you imagine how many such pitfalls that decision makers have no idea about? And for those who have a concept, they don’t give a chance, and they won’t listen.

But there is one more layer. A landing ship is being made for marines. Every country that has marines has its own ideas about its use, from which it follows not only the requirements for weapons, but also the organizational structure of the units and units. And a combat organization, that is to say, all sorts of options for arranging combat structural units.

For example, there is such a thing as a battalion fighting group (I don’t know what it’s called here, but we definitely have something like that). This is a kind of detachment on the basis of the marine battalion, which includes reinforcements that are not part of the battalion itself. Well, let's say, a mortar company, an engineering platoon, a platoon of anti-aircraft missile and artillery complexes, a special communications department ... I improvise, but you understand what I'm talking about.

I remember that in 1980 the number of such a battalion group in the American marines was about 1500 people, while the number of the battalion itself was probably 600.

This is what I? Moreover, the French were counting on the Mistral, driving it under the military organization of their army. And here it is different, maybe very, very different. Maybe the “Mistral” for our marines will be “neither two nor one and a half”: there is a lot for a company, a battalion cannot be planted ... and put two and a half companies and a half-platoon of MANPADS on the devil? What to do with them then? There are no such "groupings" either in the tactical studies or in the field (combat?) Statutes.

Or should we change the tactics and structure under the “Mistral”?

I hope I managed to show at least the misty outline of this huge tangle of thousands of problems. There are no problems about which you and I even have a clue that even a question will not come to mind. Not a single person at all can this tangle be imagined; hundreds of specialists are needed to at least ask questions, draw up a list of obvious and possible problems.

But this is not necessary if the decision is political. Buy some, and others will suffer. And it is also useless to suffer if it turns out that the Mistral Navy is needed, like a cancer dress coat ...
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143 comments
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  1. Krasnoyarsk
    -3
    8 February 2013 08: 46
    The article smacks of alarmism, it has already been said more than once that the mistral is being modernized according to our needs, the height of the hangar will be increased, and so on.
    1. +17
      8 February 2013 10: 50
      and what?
      but, what - the metacentric height will increase, the hull sailing, the tendency to tip over, etc. increasingly. Who the hell are these for us?
      1. Kodiak
        +11
        8 February 2013 11: 04
        Quote: sso-250659
        metacentric height will increase ...


        The higher the metacentric height, the more stable the ship.
      2. +3
        8 February 2013 12: 00
        Quote: sso-250659
        and what?
        but, what - the metacentric height will increase, the hull sailing, the tendency to tip over, etc. increasingly. Who the hell are these for us?

        Once again, only in Russian. They have the same problems in their native configuration. Only this is not a problem of driving mechanisms. So the topic of fuel is all leash.
    2. sergeant1973
      +1
      8 February 2013 15: 32
      why can't we build ships of this class ourselves? And the worse our BDK?
      1. +8
        8 February 2013 19: 23
        just because there are none and no one to build
      2. +2
        8 February 2013 19: 50
        The fact that for such a period ships of this class at this stage of their existence, Russian shipyards can not build.
        Purchase - a complex transaction, which included the purchase of technology.
        1. +1
          8 February 2013 20: 25
          Quote: Pimply
          The fact that for such a period ships of this class at this stage of their existence, Russian shipyards can not build.
          Purchase - a complex transaction, which included the purchase of technology
          Zhenya with respect, but answer which of those that we do not have in promising developments?
          1. +4
            8 February 2013 21: 52
            Mechanic,
            Yes, we have promising developments, the only trouble is that they were all carried out as part of research, and therefore are not tied to the capabilities of a particular production.
          2. +7
            9 February 2013 03: 48
            Zhenya, how long will the development and construction take? Ten years? Two years for development, 7, or even 8 - construction. The highways are three years old, plus the transfer of a number of very good technologies. And the deal is probably a batch, not only that includes.
            1. Cheloveck
              0
              10 February 2013 02: 27
              Quote: Pimply
              and how long will the development and construction take? Ten years? Two years for development, 7, or even 8 - construction. The highways are three years old, plus the transfer of a number of very good technologies. And the deal is probably a batch, not only that includes
              Uh, excuse me, what specific technology?
              What is it, out of the ordinary, do the treasurers supply complete with menstruals?
              These three of their technologies should be introduced for another three years and brought to mind as much as not yours, and then make sure that you don’t put on @@@.
              Although, kill me God (albeit an atheist to the core), I do not see anything in these pepelats that our almost suffocated industry could not do.
        2. +1
          9 February 2013 10: 52
          Technology purchase ?! Does NATO lie on its back and spread its legs apart? Dozens of fully-equipped plants and factories will arrive to us tomorrow? Slipways, automatic lines, chemical plants ... we exported from Germany approximately as much after our last mass visit.
          What we do not know, drawings of what we need to take from the French? Those gaskets? We all know, now you can’t keep the information. Technology is the equipment and infrastructure itself, which for modern production needs to be built, installed and configured for decades. Men are stumbling that the French will give us THESE technologies ....
      3. +1
        9 February 2013 08: 39
        BDK and UDKD (* Mistral) - different ships with different tasks.
    3. Nechai
      +6
      8 February 2013 18: 46
      Alexander, everyone's sense of smell is purely individual. V. Meilitsev raises fair and reasonable questions about the technological INCOMPATIBILITY of our and NATO technology. And this is an OBJECTIVE FACT. That the authorities did not know and did not know about this? Come on, write yourself, "minstrual" is being modernized for our needs. BUT to remake this ship for our consumables legushatiskie-rooster is NOT IN FORCE!
      Then why did this deal take place? Well, of course, the acre of the highest political watered. By the way, a friend of Sharkozy umalil Platini to give the World Cup to Qatar such a very well-heeled political. That's the way it is. Yeah, run in the 50 degree heat. What ?! Okay, so!
      The purchase of ministry instruments is just the first step in integrating the RF Armed Forces into the NATO structure. And according to his own military-industrial complex, Tolyan frankly expressed himself - they are not doing it right now, they are buying a boom in the west.
      The next public step was the introduction of spherical coloring of our Air Force aircraft. By the way, Shoigu canceled it on the move!
      And so, we would be quietly glanced - they would marry me without me!
      1. +3
        8 February 2013 18: 53
        Nechai,
        And why not just improve the quality of the same solariums and fuels and lubricants in general, I traveled in the late 80s and all 90s in MS 20 aviation oil, when disassembling my engine and who went in ordinary oil, it was clean, clean, and the oil was clear, not black mix
        1. Nechai
          +5
          8 February 2013 19: 23
          Igor, but who is against quality. By the way, our YES (Arctic diesel will not only NOT LIVE to the imported one, but will be better. And this is not blah-bda, but personal experience). It’s expensive, and it was used only where without a cord. (SMEs on infantry fighting vehicles at -45ti, with an unchanged DZ on YES, this ... fool
          DO NOT replace the concepts of QUALITY and COMPATIBILITY. Mix sour with fresh. I read the comments of menstrual apologists, their main argument is that our refiners are already making analogues of Western fuels, oils, lubricants, etc. And yes they send for export. For some reason, the lads forget to clarify that ALL THESE ARE CITIZEN PRODUCTS. Or a semi-finished product, such as straight-run gasoline. Maybe the opponents have the facts of the supply of our Russian fuel and lubricants, rubber goods, filters, plastic products to NATO troops and fleets? Please introduce me so kindly.
          I have REPEATED repeatedly the history of situevina that both NATO and the USSR spent a lot of money on preventing the use of captured equipment and fuel by the enemy. The contradictions are problematic, after all, not only in fuels and lubricants and spare parts ...
          The defenders generally ignore the issue of the incompatibility of the OShs of our marines and airborne units of the Gala. Interesting, right?
          1. 77bor1973
            0
            8 February 2013 22: 37
            A far-fetched topic, what kind of fuels and lubricants does our country lack? This makes no sense ...
            1. 0
              9 February 2013 08: 46
              Something that would be suitable for NATO technology. The fact that imports are sold on store shelves cannot testify to the availability of the entire range of fuel and lubricants for servicing military equipment. An example - we have antifreeze in the army, they have antifreeze - do you know the difference in chemical composition?
              1. 77bor1973
                0
                9 February 2013 22: 13
                Dear antifreeze is also an antifreeze only of our production, antifreeze was invented in the USSR. And what does not stand on the shelves please specify.
                1. +2
                  10 February 2013 07: 20
                  I'm not talking about what and where they came up with - I'm talking about chem. the composition of a particular liquid. You will not argue that there is a difference not only in the names and countries of the "invention" but also in the composition? Why isn't our antifreeze poured into other cars? When he was a lieutenant, he somehow asked the head of the car service - why he didn't pour antifreeze into his Zhiguli (there was a lot of antifreeze). In response, I received a detailed lecture on the dangers of poor performance at school (college) and general woodiness - since then I have not asked such questions, although I periodically meet him (the NAS team) in a retirement state.
                  1. 77bor1973
                    0
                    10 February 2013 22: 19
                    Any foreign truck in our country works with antifreeze based on ethylene glycol, some use our TOSOL, no particular difference — it just needs to be changed more often.
                    1. +1
                      27 August 2015 15: 06
                      Just changing more often is buying more often.
    4. +3
      8 February 2013 20: 57
      This article repeats almost half of what I wrote in my comments for a long time, and for which I deserve, unlike everyone else, the "delete" addition, and the fact that my comment is immediately lowered into the footer by the moderator. I wrote earlier that all this fuss with "Mistrals" is no more than a scam, and that it is connected with money and big money, that "Mistrals" are worthless ships and we do not need them due to their peculiarities. That's it, gentlemen! I and many were right, and you pecked at us.
    5. Cheloveck
      +3
      10 February 2013 02: 13
      Quote: Krasnoyarets
      The article smacks of alarmism, it has already been said more than once that the mistral is being modernized according to our needs, the height of the hangar will be increased, and so on.

      This is not alarmism, but a real view of things.
      Nuances are much more than touched in the pack.
    6. 0
      10 February 2013 23: 58
      You can agree with the first part of the article.
  2. +18
    8 February 2013 08: 51
    It turned out that in Russia there are no such fuels and lubricants that are needed for the operation of Mistral.

    No guys, not fools Mistral bought.

    Not only are the existing Russian analogs of fuel unsuitable for these boats, but you can only fill it with tankers that have NATO-certified quality control systems. Also, as it turned out, the helicopter carriers hurt a complicated unified electric power installation, the maintenance of which will cost a lot of money and generally take a considerable share of the time. And if we buy fuel and fuel and lubricants in France for 30 years and carry out repairs and maintenance there, the rollback amount will increase at times, like that.
    1. +15
      8 February 2013 09: 35
      Not, comrade, I plus you, but nevertheless you are not right. I DO NOT BELIEVE that the buyer was planning 30-year pullbacks. The buyer received today, and tomorrow, at least the grass does not grow .....
      Here, by the way, some are no longer growing ........
      1. +5
        8 February 2013 09: 48
        Quote: lelyk72
        I DO NOT BELIEVE that the buyer was planning 30-year pullbacks. The buyer received today, and tomorrow, at least the grass does not grow .....


        You didn’t understand Alexei, not for 30 years, but for 30 years at once.
    2. Mikado
      +5
      8 February 2013 09: 36
      What kind of people are near. Here, we, in Russia, are supplied with European cars, they have European cars tricked with electronics, they have their own standards and restrictions in countries and on engines. For example, you can’t warm up the car for more than 5 minutes or the car will not start if the seat belt is not fastened. According to your logic and the logic of the author of the article, we should not have a single European car. But everything is solved very quickly. In the dealerships, when a new batch arrives, they update the software of the machines and that's it, ride as you like, warm up as much as you want and so on.
      1. +12
        8 February 2013 09: 51
        Quote: Mikado
        Here, we, in Russia, are supplied with European cars,

        And their fuel pumps on diesel engines are flying and these diesels work with the same roar as on the "Belarusians" and the turbines are coking, we went through and switched to gasoline.

        Dmitrich, what do you minus on the sly, that I'm wrong? imported diesels from our fuel do not fly?
        1. Mikado
          +4
          8 February 2013 13: 55
          There are different firmware, those who are flashing in the left services, so they may not understand what to flash, as a result, broken engines and so on. And he worked when the official dealer of Citroen and Renault, not a single case of failure of something due to the officer. I did not see the flashing. By the way, about our fuel and diesel engines, not an expert, but the same comrades from the service, when they were asked similar questions, said that this situation was several years ago, now the quality of our solarium has improved much.
          1. Fox
            +6
            8 February 2013 14: 41
            Quote: Mikado
            And he worked when the official dealer of Citroen and Renault

            comrade works at a Volkswagen-Audi-Skoda service as a manager .... bought myself a Kalina. and about imports, he says that if you publish data on warranty and non-warranty cases, the vaunted Germans will not "yield" to our cars in terms of the number of failures.
            1. +8
              8 February 2013 18: 26
              Fox,
              For one simple reason, they will not give in, "many" years ago, Merkel and Sarkozy signed a document on the deterioration of the quality of cars, because the main income comes not from the sale of this car, but from service, spare parts, so now Renault has risen so much, and even Nissan " raised " laughing , but about the Volkswagen Group, I am generally silent, the boxes are flying, the chassis, but the prices? But at the expense of Mistral, really, when they signed the contract, didn’t check for maintenance? Here’s a simple example in our factory we bought water purification equipment, the right thing, just didn’t check either, and when the vibrator of fine water purification flew, it turned out that oil only in America, and then in not large quantities, waited a month
            2. +4
              8 February 2013 18: 35
              the vaunted Germans "will not yield" to our machines in the number of failures

              I did not work at the service, but a failure when the engine malfunction or abs signal blinked and when the clutch flies are different failures. And the fact that the import of electronics is many times greater is a fact. And again, I had both a folk and a nine of ours - each has its own charms and flaws. But the folk will be stronger and more comfortable. Although the seat on the nine was "the very thing" to me. But - while I drive a foreign car, and I don't want to go to Kalina. I guess I'm a masochist.
              1. +2
                8 February 2013 18: 46
                Botanologist,
                I had both a penny and a triple, and a Cossack with a Muscovite, the simplest penny, the engine and move I took apart once a year, now Megan2, a convenient and economical car, but here it flies on it (French laughing ), but there are spare parts, my mother don’t worry, and honestly I wouldn’t sit on Kalina, maybe a pretty penny, and then for nostolgia
                1. +3
                  8 February 2013 20: 15
                  Now Megan2,

                  Megan is a very strong car. And electronics in our climate often glitches.
          2. Passing
            +4
            8 February 2013 17: 08
            Quote: Mikado
            Now the quality of our solariums has improved much.

            Diesel destroys sulfur and tar fractions contained in the solarium. In the West, very strict standards, in the USSR, an order of magnitude worse (literally). If at a gas station you can still buy Euro-standard diesel fuel at a high price, then the fleet uses the same Soviet fuel, or even fuel oil in general. So to Mistral it is necessary to add also the latest refinery, or rather at least two (north + pacific).
            1. Misantrop
              +5
              8 February 2013 17: 30
              Quote: Passing by
              the fleet uses the same Soviet fuel

              One day in the 90s, on the occasion of 72 bought gasoline from long-term storage warehouses. The car just flew. Fabulous fuel, almost 3 months riding it
              1. Passing
                +3
                8 February 2013 18: 52
                On one tank for three months? What did they fill you with under the guise of gasoline, radioactive waste? laughing Joke.
                It's just that in the USSR, military fuel was properly monitored, it should be seventy-second, which means it is, and on the contrary, a mysterious substance was poured at gas stations in the nineties. I, too, in the nineties found vodka in a ten-year-old cellar in a bottle-Cheburashka "Russian", which was the cheapest of the cheapest in Soviet times, so compared to what was in the stalls, just heaven and earth, just some kind of ambrosia !
                1. Misantrop
                  0
                  8 February 2013 19: 19
                  Quote: Passing by
                  On one tank for three months?

                  Then there were problems with gasoline, so I scored in all cans and containers that I could get. And regretted that little ...
            2. 77bor1973
              +1
              9 February 2013 07: 25
              Sulfur does not destroy diesel, but in general, on the contrary, it performs lubricating functions and the amount of sulfur in the Euro diesel is reduced only for environmental reasons, and for diesel, the lower the euro, the better the diesel water in diesel fuel destroys.
              1. wax
                0
                9 February 2013 22: 28
                It is not vodka that kills people; water kills people.
            3. 0
              9 February 2013 08: 51
              In the USSR, in the army, in any case, the fuel was received in the GREATEST! In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation - it sucks, he himself saw how the black bourda was refueled in the Urals and at the same time they still managed to go! With Mistral, it seems that such things will not work.
            4. 0
              9 February 2013 10: 38
              Then I apologize for the oil. OTHER. Low sulfur. Caspian. Siberian has a high sulfur content. In the passports on L-0.62 (diesel fuel) it was immediately shown.
            5. wax
              0
              9 February 2013 22: 25
              It is necessary to improve the quality of both fuel and oils, this is an urgent need. If Mistral pulls the renewal of a number of petroleum products, then already for this it could be bought (just kidding). True, for this money, a lot of things could be modernized.
        2. Kommunisten
          0
          8 February 2013 17: 35
          Do you want to say anything about the DPS once so smart?
    3. +28
      8 February 2013 09: 55
      I read and wondered - that’s why, due to people like some, our army will not be modern and high-tech

      Well, what’s up?

      1) about the Finnish diesels (which are on the Mistral) I repeat for you
      It turns out that Wartsila diesel engines began to be used in the USSR since 1975. How did you manage to convince the Soviet leadership in the distant 70s and 80s to opt for Wartsila, because the USSR then had established production of diesel engines, and then electromechanics were on the rise?
      The corporation's successful entry into the Soviet diesel engine market in the 70s of the last century was due to a new unique technology that was used on ship diesel engines manufactured by Wartsila. Know-how allowed 4-stroke diesel engines to run on heavy fuel oil. Competing companies were only able to implement this technology ten years later. "
      We figured it out and Rogozin on the channel leading 24 blushing turned on the back, that is, he did not understand it

      2) regarding additional lubricating units - this topic was raised a long time ago because many former Soviet enterprises stopped production of these lubricants - but there would be a desire, by the way Lukoil at its enterprises in Russia produces a full list of lubricants and even exports large barrels of oil and other liquids for corporation SHELL

      3) Regarding requirements and compatibility - something before that our equipment perfectly merges with French systems both in our army and for export, and everyone is happy (compact and good)

      4) we discussed in the previous post about tankers and supply vessels

      PS- now the main task on Mistral I think and what to do
      the points

      a) the depressing construction of corvettes and frigates for our Navy, and the Frenchman needs a normal escort, more than one lonely boat, because he carries people normally
      b) construction and running-in marine ka-52k
      c) the construction of basing places for a new class of ships of our navy
      d) crew training for such a complex technique
      e) determination of landing craft for the ship (ours or imported)
      e) fitting all systems and splicing with our technical systems


      that’s what you need to pay attention to and not write down what you think is bad — if these points are not implemented, then such a wonderful technique can be ditched quickly
      1. +25
        8 February 2013 12: 37
        The alarmism and gloating of some authors is striking. We are not building a fleet - all-polymers ... We are building a fleet - all-polymers ...
        Instead of digging into the topic, the author casts a shadow over the wattle fence. Absolutely cheap article. And moreover - hysterical.

        I liked the opus about the radio station. Is it necessary to be proud of the connection almost from the time of the Second World War? What is the use of plastic parts that can withstand overloads of 100G if the whole world makes fun of the ora of our sailors!

        The author does not know what the company Tales ...
        The author did not mention cooperation with France in the field of high technologies.
        The author does not know that military trials of new types of radio stations are being conducted.
        The author is not aware that Vyartsilya has been used in the Navy of the USSR / Russia for half a century
        The author does not know that we also use Deutz diesel engines. (at the FSB border guards)
        The author did not say that ISO standards (for fuel) are known to all developed countries.
        The author does not know the reason, or is deliberately silent about the endless redrawing of Gren. One "of" - just the same number of MP and technology.
        The author has no information that "thanks to Mistral" they began to change the infrastructure in the Bolshoi Ulysses Bay of Vladivostok.
        The author misleads the reader, claiming that the project has not adapted to our realities. There are more than fifty changes.
        The author did not notice the connection with the acceleration of production of the Ka 52k.
        The author is silent that the size of the hangars fits our helicopters. It was about coaming in the elevator area. And lift capacity. (French turntables are easier)
        The author did not say a word about the fact that the feed section is going to Russia.
        The author did not mention the imminent recruitment of officers for service at the UDC.
        There is not a word about the ship systems that our engineers are curious about.

        Mistral puts itself on display by the fact of its existence. It will be indicatively driven both in the tail and mane of the planet. For those who want to serve - a dream. This is not the 90s.

        Based on this journalistic opus, we can conclude: Russian sailors will break everything, for not fig. Is this a productive criticism? In my opinion, this is "throw on the fan".
        Bold minus the article.
        AUTHOR!
        We need to follow the press, and we will see how many more of those issues will come up.
        (I’ll add from myself) thanks to which our fleet enters the New Age.
        1. Avenger711
          +10
          8 February 2013 14: 57
          The author never said that "Mistral" was UG, he only outlined the complexity of the problem, and the devil is really in the details.
          1. +10
            8 February 2013 18: 43
            When the "complexity of the problem" is described in such colors, P. Felgenhauer and others like him come to mind. (Knock, knock me !!! knock on wood three times am )
            Maybe the author just thickened the colors for the sake of the "curse the stool" fashion. But fashion is disgusting negative will we live in revolutions?

            It would be better if V. Meilitsev opened the topic of a "friendly and necessary kick" to our shipbuilding, using the example of UDC, as well as the Rescuer I. Belousov, Gorshkov-Vikramaditya.
            After 6 months, the Mistral will be launched ... The contract was concluded almost as much as the time allotted for the construction.
      2. +17
        8 February 2013 13: 21
        It turns out that we don’t have fig roads - our cars, it turns out, are not like that. In Mlyn. And the import ships are also fig, they will not sail on our water.
        And about fuel - about 10 years ago, I talked with oil workers who were planning to build an oil refinery for diesel fuel near Moscow. They have sulfur removal at Euro-4. Moreover, the equipment is mainly domestic. So, big people came and asked - why such systems for sulfur removal? - Well, they say engines do not suffer, the environment is cleaner. Yeah, they say, and now what, engines on a solarium do not go? -
        They are driving. Well, nafik this cleaning, it turns out very expensive. As many as 6 years of recoupment, and without purification - for 4 we recoup.
        Maybe the problem is not in the Mistral, but in our indestructible habit to dilute gasoline with donkey urine?
        1. +1
          8 February 2013 19: 31
          I read a long time ago that it is more profitable for us to drive less gasoline from oil and more fuel oil - it seems like the duties are low (such as not raw materials, but the product is already) and there is more trouble with gasoline. That is, there is no processing level and no interest - any entrepreneur-businessman wants to pay off for the first month and earn money for the second month
      3. +7
        8 February 2013 23: 11
        Rustam, you are a real knowledgeable specialist on this topic, which can not be said about the author of the article, I put you a plus.
    4. Yoshkin Kot
      +2
      8 February 2013 11: 26
      n-dya, I goofing! Is there a specialist on the forum? for some reason I’m thinking about standardization on a global scale, I doubt very much that some wise oils and fuels are used for a warship,
      ps maybe good? will tighten the fleet's material base!
    5. ded
      +5
      8 February 2013 11: 37
      It turned out that in Russia there are no such fuels and lubricants that are needed for the operation of Mistral.


      That's great! Maybe this will make Russian scientists take up the business, and not sit and tell tales that we are the smartest and we have the best education!
      1. +3
        8 February 2013 19: 25
        Quote: ded
        Maybe it will make Russian scientists do business,

        No grandfather, better "Kuplyayets Belarusian" all our fuels and lubricants are standardized for EURO-5, there is no 80th gasoline.
        Poor, poor Indians crying ... An article from the series "To @ rnat and not live"
        1. +4
          8 February 2013 19: 37
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          no grandfather, better "Kuplyayets Belarusian" all our fuels and lubricants are standardized for EURO-5, there is no 80th gasoline.
          Yes, I’ll come to Gomel in a week, and I’ll check how you can take cars from Minsk to Gomel (Gomel Machine-Tool Plant). From the plane of Minsk to the city of arrival, well, let's see.
          1. +2
            8 February 2013 19: 48
            Quote: Mechanic
            Yes, I’ll come to Gomel in a week, and I’ll check

            Unsubscribe Zhen, really interesting from feather hands
            1. +5
              8 February 2013 20: 28
              Yes, of course I will unsubscribe. Vadim, until July, I will have to travel to the Native Lands, about once a month and for a week. By the way, I really liked Ivanovo, only there I got strained with the brides. There the waitress smiled at me in the "Silver City", but she is as terrible as my life before marriage. laughing
              1. +1
                9 February 2013 12: 55
                Quote: Mechanic
                I really liked Ivanovo, only there I began to strain with the brides.

                And I really liked Saratov, I thought I had never seen more beautiful)))) I don’t know, maybe I was just young and "hungry" lol
          2. +1
            8 February 2013 23: 06
            Quote: Mechanic
            from Minsk to Gomel

            I hope Minsk will be pleasant to you and Gomel too (although the city is peculiar).
            Previously, under the Union, Gomel had a pretty decent airport. Ours flied to the north.
          3. +1
            8 February 2013 23: 11
            I don’t recommend it if you don’t feel sorry for the money, a year and a half or two years ago the Izhevsk lathe and a couple of milling Belorussky were put into the workshop, after 3 months the lathe stopped giving cleanliness and milling steel! hi I myself work OJSC MMZ named after S.I. Vavilov Instr. production
    6. postman
      +7
      8 February 2013 13: 48
      Quote: Vadivak
      Not only are existing Russian fuel analogues not suitable

      fit
      export share of diesel fuel, not only 3,5 times export component in the volume of sales of motor gasoline, but in 2001 even exceeded sales volumes in the domestic market.

      Quote: Vadivak
      it’s also possible to fill it only with tankers

      nonsense. "Elba" (project 404)

      everything is the same as on ours
      emergency stop in case of increase or sharp drop in pressure in the pipeline. In the event of a hose breakage or in other emergency situations, it is possible to install remote posts for emergency stopping of pumps on the upper deck of the floating base and transfer cables with remotes to ships receiving cargo. All hoses of the liquid transfer system have self-locking connections.
      Quote: Vadivak
      Also, as it turned out, the helicopter carriers hurt a complex unified electric power plant,

      But the efficiency is higher.
      True, there are no docks to inspect the main ED.
      Come up with BPA sad
      ================
      Of course for the Russian Federation it would be more profitable (cheaper, simpler) to purchase the Juan Carlos I class .....
      BUT! Nord Stream + something else. That's the balance.
      ==========================================
      that's the problem with the ice class. For this it is necessary to "ears" the one who signed
      1. +13
        8 February 2013 16: 26
        A very strange impression of the article, as if the author writes not about Mistral, but to his beloved:
        Still, I'm a good predictor. And one of my best prognostic topics is our dear helicopter landing. Dear our ship dock, somewhere even a universal landing ship.

        Well, yes, of course - "Mistral."

        More recently, I wrote in triumph,

        It somehow reminds one of a character from a cartoon about Mowgli: .... "and we will go north ...."
        Well, if to the topic, then this problem is not a problem at all, as our experts rightly write below ... Another thing is interesting, basically all articles about the uselessness and harmfulness of the Mistrals are published in the liberal press, which convinces me of the need for these ships .. It's just that you can see that they really interfere with someone, so they set the lured "patriots" ... Well, something like that in my opinion.
        1. postman
          +3
          8 February 2013 17: 14
          Quote: sniper
          Very strange impression of the article

          I will reveal a "terrible" secret about diesel fuel.
          Our DT (I take St. Petersburg region) is BETTER than the European (except Norway, Northern Sweden and Finland - for the time being)
          at the gas station which.
          already 3 years and everything (almost 95%) of diesel fuel contains up to 7% of biodiesel.
          I personally get bogged down to look for an EXPENSIVE type of Schell Power at a gas station: I read these circles all the time.

          ===============
          And from this year Germany must decide to produce bio-based oils (engine, transmission) (rapeseed, waste
        2. Fletcher
          0
          10 February 2013 17: 21
          Mr. Sniper, I wrote an article for my BLOG, and a blog, as you know, implies more emotional communication with the reader than a website, strict and distantly informative. That's all.

          Frankly: I am pleased that the topwar administration took my article to their website, thank you. But I did not ask about it, fact. So - be quiet, uncle, for excessive liveliness. This is me, no offense, not to you, it's me to my readers who have been visiting my blog for five years.
    7. Kommunisten
      +3
      8 February 2013 17: 33
      Che you are a clown, Rogozin himself said that his words were misinterpreted. We have been using ships with Wartsila engines for a long time in our fleet, though not for military purposes, but this does not stop them from sailing.
      1. wax
        0
        9 February 2013 22: 50
        If Rogozin spoke less, and said only that which is well discussed and thought out, there would be no price to him. It's time to forget about the trepidation in NATO, where this quality was in place.
        Stalin during the whole war only once spoke to the people on the radio - July 3, 1941 and managed to say everything for the whole war. Naturally, this is an unattainable bar and an over-the-horizon reference point for the inconsequential people, but still.
  3. +20
    8 February 2013 08: 51
    Although I am not a supporter of the acquisition of pezhiki, but as for fuel and lubricants, I can say with confidence that all this is garbage. Well, think for yourself our fuel has a cetane number of over 60. This is done on the basis of operating conditions in the northern latitudes, Euro norms have the characteristic 40-45, which allows to improve the exhaust smoke and the emission of soot residues. Also, our fuel contains approximately 15-17% more sulfur additives, which also contradicts the European standards, and lastly, our fuel has a lower low ignition threshold (that is, the need for high compression is not so critical). The maximum operating life of the unit when using our diesel fuel. As for lubricants. Again, there is no problem. Our GOSTs cover ISO standards upon request. Who doesn’t believe, I suggest, for comparison, to find the characteristics of our VMGZ oil and, for example, Shell Telus Arctic, and everything will become clear. So I think that this release was made for unknowing people.
    1. +5
      8 February 2013 08: 57
      Quote: Mechanic
      Although I’m not a supporter of the acquisition of pezhiki


      Hi Zhenya, on fuel to Rgozin

      The fuel required for Mistral-class helicopter carriers is not produced in Russia, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin told reporters on Tuesday.

      "Perhaps, there will be some special devices prepared by our chemists in order to remove this problem," he said, answering the relevant question.
      1. +13
        8 February 2013 09: 13
        Hi Vadim.
        Quote: Vadivak
        The fuel required for Mistral-class helicopter carriers is not produced in Russia, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin told reporters on Tuesday.
        I do not see in this phrase the words that they will not work on our fuel. The resource will decrease significantly, but this does not mean that it will not work. And the funny thing is that chemists can come up with an additive package (which already exists laughing ) And not as a device. So a person is just a technical nerd.
        1. black_eagle
          +3
          8 February 2013 09: 47
          Quote: Mechanic
          So man is just a technical nerd

          Definitely, I'm reading, and I can’t understand what the problem is? We have such an assortment of fuels and lubricants that is enough for 10 Mistral, it is all prescribed in the state standard specifications of various specifications, even if you need some kind of additive, but this is the calculation of a first-year chemical student! Another matter is in the quality of fuel and lubricants and not in stock!
        2. w.ebdo.g
          +8
          8 February 2013 11: 11
          Mechanic, I completely agree with you about the fuel for Mistral and Rogozin.
          Although, do not forget that this may be a regular media outreach. such as what country of idiots we have and how everything is bad with us ...
          there is a deliberate informational pressure.
          Well bought already, now we will kick the industrialists to ensure efficiency. without kicks they won’t do ANYTHING. they get money so well.
          it’s time for the state to take away some of the most strategically important enterprises, organize work, and pay the owners compensation, in parts, and not immediately ...

          I think so.

          1. +4
            8 February 2013 11: 58
            I’ll try to explain the essence of Rogozin’s statements. If we do not use the original fuels and lubricants, then we will lose the guarantee, that's something like that.
            If you pour in the Porsche 80 th gasoline, it will still go, but not for long.
            1. postman
              +2
              8 February 2013 20: 15
              Quote: stas52
              If we do not use the original fuel,

              What are the original ones?
              DCNS SA does not produce oils (like Mercedes, Audi, etc.)
              There are oils approved by the manufacturer.
              1. -1
                8 February 2013 20: 36
                Quote: Postman
                DCNS SA does not produce oils (like Mercedes, Audi, etc.)
                There are oils approved by the manufacturer.
                Yes, right. Only every manufacturer has their own laboratories. And do not confuse oils for ships and oils for cars.
                1. postman
                  +4
                  9 February 2013 01: 44
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  Only every manufacturer has their own laboratories

                  who argues. only the oil is not produced by the manufacturer of the remote control., but by the manufacturer of the oils that uses the SAE or API (is it not familiar with cars?)

                  Look at the date the manufacturer’s card (approved). I personally visited factories in South Africa, Germany, and China. saw.
                  As an example (for our long-suffering Mistral): CATERPILLAR (Quality Level) on it, which is the main one, that the auxiliary remote control Wartsila (Waersilae) Chevron Marine Engine Oils Delo® 1000 Marine SAE 30, 40, 50
                  Meets specification: API CF.
                  Approved for use by all major companies "manufacturers of medium-speed engines *.
                  * ABC, Alco, Allen, Boudion, Bergen Diesel, Caterpillar 3600, Daihatsu Diesel, Deutz-MWM, Fincantieri, Hanshin Diesel, MAN B&W, Alpha Diesel, MAN B&W Holeby, MAK, Mirrlees, Mitsubishi, Ruston Diesel, SACM, SEMTiel , SKL, New Sulzer Diesel, Strok Wartsila diesel, Wichmann Diesel, Yanmar.

                  Or
                  Specifications: Mobil Pegasus 805 Oils
                  CATERPILLAR (Quality Level)
                  Deutz MWM (Special Emission Gas Engines)
                  Jenbacher TI 1000-1105
                  Jenbacher TI 1000-1106
                  Jenbacher TI 1000-0125
                  MBH VDG 48/42 and VDG 42.48
                  Wartsila NDS W25SG
                  Waukesha (Cogeneration)
                  Cummins Wartsila 180SG and 220 SG
                  Wartsila NSD W34SG
                  Wartsila 32df
                  Wartsila NSD 28SG (Natural Gas)
                  Wartsila 220SG


                  Quote: Mechanic
                  And do not confuse oils for ships and oils for cars.

                  Hm? what's the difference?
                  What are Perkins, what are Wartsila do, ship, tank, and diesel generators and they are based on the same technological base (metal, tolerances, empiricism, etc.)
                2. postman
                  +4
                  9 February 2013 02: 15
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  And do not confuse oils for ships and oils for cars.

                  I will add
                  Wärtsilä, V8X 1500 "stands" on AMX-56 Leclerc

                  Wärtsilä V8X1000 was developed as a propulsion system for the T-72

                  all quietly eat our diesel fuel ...
                  ====================
                  Tutaevsky Motor Plant JSC presents a mod engine. 866.10 power 1000 hp for work in a monoblock with transmission ESM-350 from RENK France.


                  nothing so our transmission will use
          2. +3
            8 February 2013 13: 20
            Quote: w.ebdo.g
            Ipa what is our country of idiots and how bad things are with us ...
            there is a deliberate informational pressure.
            Yeah type we suckers. And we don’t know anything about chemistry and oil refining.
            1. +6
              8 February 2013 16: 12
              Yeah type we suckers. And we don’t know anything about chemistry and oil refining.

              It seems to me that the main instigators of this topic are sawflies from the USC. After all, they could have cut the 1,5 lard of the euro, but they did not.
              And here is the question - if they were given 1, 5 lard - what, someone naively believes that in 3 of the year they would have launched and transferred to the fleet of 2 ships of a similar class? Most likely, they would rush through 3 of the year to coordinate and renegotiate projects, draw up additions to contracts and agreements, and increase prices. There are many examples - the frigate cannot be brought to readiness for 6 years. I understand that new technologies are all different ... But even in Mistral there are not old technologies, they also need to be mastered somehow.
              1. -2
                8 February 2013 19: 10
                Quote: Botanologist
                But in Mistral, not old technologies, they also need to be mastered somehow
                Yeah, we will be built to their standards.
                1. +3
                  8 February 2013 20: 18
                  we will be built according to their standards

                  Build whatever you want, but you need to touch technology with your hands, and not look at exhibitions through the glass.
                  1. +1
                    8 February 2013 20: 43
                    Quote: Botanologist
                    Troy whatever you want, but you need to touch technology with your hands, and not look at exhibitions through the glass.
                    I repeat again. Compare VGMZ with Shell Telus Arktik (at least). Well, when you understand the basics of GOST and their ISO DIN. Well then, I bet.
              2. postman
                0
                9 February 2013 13: 16
                Quote: Botanologist
                It seems to me that the main instigators of this topic are sawflies from the USC.

                IN!!! Right I forgot about it.
                Most likely you hit the bull's eye.
                + another group (antipodes of Serdyukov, who dumped him, name, probably everyone knows)
      2. postman
        +2
        8 February 2013 13: 49
        Quote: Vadivak
        The fuel required for Mistral-class helicopter carriers is not produced in Russia, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin told reporters on Tuesday.

        Again in a puddle pern -doonst Rogozin. If only I wouldn’t disgrace ....
        1. 0
          8 February 2013 19: 44
          Quote: Postman
          Again in a puddle

          Dmitry Olegovich Rogozin (December 21, 1963, Moscow) - Russian politician, statesman, organizer of the defense industry and military science, diplomat, doctor philosophical sciences.
          This is such a philosophical approach to the defense industry.
    2. Kodiak
      +1
      8 February 2013 13: 01
      Um, but aren't our GOSTs on marine fuel based on the same ISO?
      1. +4
        8 February 2013 13: 37
        Quote: Kodiak

        Um, but aren't our GOSTs on marine fuel based on the same ISO?
        GOST R 54299-2010 is new, but GOST 10585 — 75 is the fuel that our ships still go on (damn I hate the word ship) compare this for quality interest. But ISO found the maximum in standards from 96 of the year, before that there was DIN and NPT. I do this every day in order to ensure that our ships can be safely exported to Japanese and sub-mattress standards for oil and diesel.
        1. Kodiak
          +1
          8 February 2013 15: 37
          Thank you for the information about the current state of affairs, but in this case the PMSM is more important not what the ships are sailing on now, but what can be purchased from domestic suppliers for the Mistrals at the time of their appearance :-)

          PS
          Quote: Mechanic
          damn hate the word ship


          Well, the terms are still different and are used differently too.
      2. postman
        +4
        8 February 2013 13: 59
        Quote: Kodiak
        not based on the same ISO formed?

        You will be surprised:
        And they are bunkering (foreign ships) with Russian diesel fuel, EVERYWHERE (in all our ports) and fuel and lubricants are used.
        Class "oceanic" (container ships, Ro-Ro) and the Baltic Sea (DFDS, Finnlines, Transfennika) and fuels and lubricants are used. and NATO ships bunker the same when calling for a friendly visit.
        1. evil hamster
          +6
          8 February 2013 14: 46
          There couldn’t be this, the solar system’s wrong system, Rogozin said, only certified NATO tankers, only hardcore. Yyyy reached out for a stony stool, they sold their mother to Russia they spread all the fuels and lubricants !!! 11
    3. TROFka
      +4
      8 February 2013 15: 31
      I apologize for interfering, but I would like to add the following: The problem of sulfur content in the form of mercaptan compounds due to the characteristics of our oil. This is all perfectly treated by the construction of hydrotreatment plants. As for the quality of the diesel fuel itself, but in many installations of cracking (where most of the others get it), we use foreign-made catalysts and quite a few enterprises with good equipment. Himself plunged into shock the statements of Rogozin ...
      1. postman
        +6
        8 February 2013 17: 09
        Quote: TROFka
        The problem of sulfur content in the form of mercaptan compounds due to the characteristics of our oil.

        Because we mix oil with Bashkir.
        Quote: TROFka
        This is all perfectly treated by the construction of hydrotreatment plants.

        I will reveal a little secret:
        for marine diesels this is not important.
        There are NO restrictions on the pollution of the exhaust (they are silent about this, but the damage from ship remote controls is many times greater than from cars)
        NO DPDF on them, AdBlue piezo injectors, common Rail, and others like them.
        the dimension of the fuel equipment is an order of magnitude higher than the automobile, the specific power is lower, the fuel is always warm, they are constantly threshing, the separators are on the tract.
        According to the Ecological class (if you bring) m-y Euro 0 and 1.
        And these non-forced low-speed engines can work on donkey urine, all the more so all the time in optimal mode (there are NO slides and constant acceleration)
      2. +2
        8 February 2013 17: 10
        Quote: TROFka
        I apologize for interfering, but I would like to add the following: The problem of sulfur content in the form of mercaptan compounds due to the characteristics of our oil. This is all perfectly treated by the construction of hydrotreatment plants. As for the quality of the diesel fuel itself, but in many installations of cracking (where most of the others get it), we use foreign-made catalysts and quite a few enterprises with good equipment. Himself plunged into shock the statements of Rogozin ...
        Thank you for completing drinks
    4. postman
      +2
      8 February 2013 17: 41
      Quote: Mechanic
      Well, think for yourself our fuel has a cetane number of over 60

      This is not true. You are confused with the sulfur content.
      MORE cetanovon number, LESS period of the ignition delay of the mixture, BUT, the calorific value is REDUCED, the smokiness and the consumption of diesel fuel are INCREASED.
      TU for winter varieties with depressant additives allow the production of Arctic fuel with cetane number not less than 40.
      And the premium has 45-50 (standard 40-45)
      GOST 305-82. Diesel fuel
      Winter fuel with a mass fraction of sulfur up to 0,2% (0,05%) and pour point minus 35 ° С:
      Diesel fuel 3-0,2 minus 35 GOST 305-82
      Diesel fuel 3-0,05 minus 35 GOST 305-82
      Arctic fuel with mass fraction of sulfur up to 0,2% (0,05%) - recommended for operation at ambient temperature minus 50 ° С and higher.
      When supplying diesel fuel for marine equipment, the OKP code is 02 5134
      Cetane number, not less than 45 (winter) 45 (summer) 45 (arctic)
      Quote: Mechanic
      Euro norms are characterized by 40-45, which allows to improve exhaust smokiness and soot emission.

      Shipborne remote control - it’s all the same, there aren’t any standards and the Kyoto agreement does not apply to them.
      There is no DPDF, no CAT, no piezo injectors (Common Rail is not the same in my opinion)
      Mechanic,
      More than an order of magnitude
      1. 0
        8 February 2013 20: 51
        Quote: Postman
        This is not true. You are confused with the sulfur content.
        MORE cetanovon number, LESS period of the ignition delay of the mixture, BUT, the calorific value is REDUCED, the smokiness and the consumption of diesel fuel are INCREASED.
        TU for winter varieties with depressant additives allow the production of arctic fuel with a cetane number of at least 40.
        And premium has 45-50 (40-45 standard)
        GOST 305-82. Diesel fuel
        Winter fuel with a mass fraction of sulfur up to 0,2% (0,05%) and pour point minus 35 ° С:
        Diesel fuel 3-0,2 minus 35 GOST 305-82
        Diesel fuel 3-0,05 minus 35 GOST 305-82
        Arctic fuel with mass fraction of sulfur up to 0,2% (0,05%) - recommended for operation at ambient temperature minus 50 ° С and higher.
        When supplying diesel fuel for marine equipment, the OKP code is 02 5134
        Cetane number, not less than 45 (winter) 45 (summer) 45 (arctic)
        Quote: Mechanic
        Euro norms are characterized by 40-45, which allows to improve exhaust smokiness and soot emission.
        Shipborne remote control - it’s all the same, there aren’t any standards and the Kyoto agreement does not apply to them.
        There is no DPDF, no CAT, no piezo injectors (Common Rail is not the same in my opinion)
        Mechanic,
        More than an order of magnitude
        You probably judge by auto fuel. As far as I remember * 87-91 we were only driven to salary of course. But damn they could only dream of DT60 (Arctic). Well and so I’m working a little in this topic now. So we give at best DT60 under the north. But DT45 is not in Russia. And yes, for cars there is DT30 supposedly clean.
        1. postman
          +1
          8 February 2013 21: 20
          Quote: Mechanic
          You probably judge by auto fuel.

          I brought GOST for marine diesels.
          CC at least 40 (with additives)
          For A and Z, everything is painted there.

          Quote: Mechanic
          we only salary

          The name "diesel fuel" comes from the German Solaroel (solar oil)
          because of the yellow color
          Diesel fuel (obsolete. Diesel, expanding diesel, solarium) is a liquid product that is used as fuel in a diesel internal combustion engine. Usually, this term refers to fuel derived from kerosene-gas oil fractions of direct distillation of oil.
          I just know that Lukoil in our country and in the north runs the normal.
          1. 0
            8 February 2013 21: 47
            Quote: Postman
            diesel fuel (obsolete. solar, expanding diesel, solarium) is a liquid product used as fuel in a diesel internal combustion engine. Usually, this term refers to fuel derived from kerosene-gas oil fractions of direct distillation of oil.
            I just know that Lukoil in our country and in the north runs the normal.
            Well, our translation does not always correspond to the content (by the way, thanks, I didn’t know that) and means the original meaning of the word. So we can argue in the Urals with you, the oil producers.
            1. postman
              +1
              9 February 2013 01: 50
              Quote: Mechanic
              I did not know that

              It is enough to observe at least once in Germany the detention by the operational customs of a car owner who refueled his car CHEAP
              Heizoil (heating oil)
              If you don’t get scared of the customs officer’s gun and be understood, you quickly realize that color and name are not the essence.
              PRICE (tax) matters.


              Quote: Mechanic
              in the Urals with you, oil producers.

              No - I'm not an oil producer. There are friends at the refinery in Bashkiria, I can find out.
              By the way, if it’s important, I can learn firsthand what kind of diesel fuel is being poured onto Wikamadri. (You’ll break your tongue and fingers), in short, onto an aircraft carrier that they must transmit to the Indians.
              Directly at the captain, who will speak Russian soon ..., from expectation
              Discover? take a word or what thread is needed (more difficult, politics)
  4. +2
    8 February 2013 08: 53
    And the inscriptions in public latrine - for some reason, in French, the language.
  5. +3
    8 February 2013 09: 07
    Are we waiting for the objections of specialists? In the opinion of the "man in the street" there is nothing to argue.
    1. +5
      8 February 2013 09: 11
      Quote: man in the street
      We are waiting for the objections of specialists

      Well, according to the solarium, Zhenya wrote it off, it seems normal to me, will this trough go nowhere to go, the question is how much? You can of course install native diesels (pun turns out), but that's another money.
      1. +4
        8 February 2013 09: 15
        Quote: Vadivak
        by solar
        Vadim solyara is a mixture of diesel fuel with heavy oil residues (fuel oil) on this he just will not go anywhere laughing This is not KAMAZ.
        1. +4
          8 February 2013 09: 27
          Quote: Mechanic
          solarium is a mixture of diesel fuel with heavy oil residues

          Zhenya, I understand this cuts your ears, but you yourself understand that vodka, that a machine gun ...
          1. +1
            8 February 2013 12: 03
            Quote: Vadivak
            but I myself understand that vodka, that a machine gun ...
            Yeah. The league would have knocked down. laughing
  6. +4
    8 February 2013 09: 34
    The deal took more than a year to complete. It means that not only "top managers" worked, but specialists. For fuel - see the "joke" on the adoption of Euro-3, Euro-4, Euro-5. There is no way to bring up our refineries, we will load Mistrals. About technology transfer - in order for someone to give you something, you need to offer something yourself. And so, imagine that the Mistral was part of the inter-fleet grouping off the coast of Syria. A completely different view ...
    1. +1
      8 February 2013 09: 43
      Quote: Pon69
      The deal took more than a year to complete. It means that not only "top-managers" worked, but specialists.

      Maybe just not sure if anyone was listening to them.
      1. +3
        8 February 2013 09: 53
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Maybe just not sure if anyone was listening to them.

        Specialists stayed on the shore
    2. +1
      8 February 2013 09: 55
      Quote: Pon69
      And so, imagine that the Mistral was part of the inter-fleet grouping off the coast of Syria. A completely different view ...


      Well, only the islanders are frightened by his sight. The cupboard is over large, but the more the cupboard falls the louder
      1. Kodiak
        +1
        8 February 2013 11: 07
        Yes, yes, and when a "closet" like "Nimitz" falls, there is so much noise, so much noise, every time they fall!
        By the way, how many times have they fallen?
        1. +2
          8 February 2013 11: 44
          Quote: Kodiak
          By the way, how many times have they fallen?

          Nimitz enters the AUG therefore does not fall
          Each AUG, as a rule, includes one aircraft carrier, from one to four guided missile cruisers (URO), two to three destroyers or frigates of the URO, 1-2 multipurpose nuclear submarines (nuclear submarines), carrier-based carrier aircraft. Thus, the AUG includes 6-10 warships. If necessary, the number of cover ships may be more. On the basis of atomic aircraft carriers, high-speed atomic missile launchers are also being created, consisting of an aircraft carrier, two atomic cruisers and one atomic multi-purpose submarine. The total number of AUG personnel reaches 9000 people, of which 6000 - on an aircraft carrier.

          AUG can conduct combat operations without replenishing supplies up to 14 days, strike ships at sea to a depth of 925 km, and coastal targets about 1600 km. The ability of AUGs to move 1100-1300 km per day in a day provides relative stealth, and consequently, suddenness of action, allowing you to quickly arrive in the designated area.

          A lot has already been written about this. Mistral is not an aircraft carrier
          1. Kodiak
            +1
            8 February 2013 12: 45
            Quote: Vadivak
            Nimitz enters the AUG therefore does not fall


            Quote: Vadivak
            Mistral is not an aircraft carrier


            You yourself say that the "fall of the cabinet" depends on the combat stability of the compound, and then for some reason you add that the "Mistral" is not an aircraft carrier.
            1. 0
              9 February 2013 12: 23
              aircraft carrier and provides combat stability. now the main enemy of the fleet is aviation and submarines. the aircraft carrier is capable of spreading the "umbrella" for hundreds of kilometers. The Mistral itself needs to be covered by an aircraft carrier, otherwise it will be sunk by missiles from an aircraft or from under water.
              1. Kodiak
                0
                9 February 2013 19: 56
                It is especially interesting to hear about an "umbrella" from a submarine hundreds of kilometers after the Vikings were decommissioned, and even with them, but without the GAS ships / boats of the warrant, the chance of a boat not being detected with the corresponding consequences in a combat situation would be unacceptable.

                And to cover the UDC against most countries, an aircraft carrier is not needed at all, enough detachment of NK and PL, about which
                Pon6 and wrote.
                Well, the Strategic Missile Forces + SSBNs are quite safe from potential adversaries who could penetrate the defense of our formation.
  7. Volkhov
    +1
    8 February 2013 09: 41
    We have a completely planned history for years to come - it is unlikely that accidentally pulling into the African wars (Mali) coincides with the purchase of the Mistral - now AN-124-100 fly there, but in 224 LO (army) there is one such one, there are still 1 (124) but it’s not entirely legal to drive them through Europe; there is no adaptation to modern requirements. The remaining planes belong to businessmen, Ukrainians ... The Mistral is able to bring much more aircraft and is not so vulnerable.
    Refusal from the second pair is also logical - they will not have time before the end of the world, which has not been canceled. And oil for a short period of operation will simply be bought, what's the problem?
  8. +2
    8 February 2013 09: 51
    Never a supporter of this venture with the Mistrals, but the article, at least, is embarrassing. You might think that the French invented some kind of special diesel engine, designed for some kind of secret diesel fuel ... Stop stirring up: millions of French diesel engines work around the world on diesel engines of different manufacturers - and nothing - work.
    And further. Perturbs Mechanic... My dear, tell me the unreasonable where to find Russian diesel fuel with C> 60 ?! I would travel 500 km from my Muhoska to refuel with such a solarium! laughing
    1. +1
      8 February 2013 12: 24
      Quote: Executer
      I'm from my Muhosk for 500 km
      Duck and ride. This is the diesel fuel standard from 87 of the year. If you do not believe then check. And then go even for 1000 km. Now only tractors on collective farms drive a solarium and that’s not all.
    2. Fletcher
      +1
      10 February 2013 17: 13
      Oh, that’s a pity ... I already wrote here in the comments: I have a four-part article, and the part where the fuel is the first and not the most, so to speak, substantiated by personal experience. I'm actually on control systems. And the other three parts relate to all electronic systems. It is a pity that the topwar editor took only the first part. It turned out that all my suffering is in diesel fuel. And so the people come off on this diesel fuel.

      No guys! My main idea is different: when deciding on the purchase of the Mistral, the big bosses did not bother to think about what it would result in for those who would put our weapons on them, our communication systems and other. And who will exploit, and who will modify the software when there is any trifle, be it a bug fix or the addition of a tiny module to provide some kind of mode that the French do not provide or do not need.

      Big bosses, I say, did not think about it. And the "solar" news for me is evidence of what, at last, they began to think. More precisely, it itself began to crawl out.

      Sorry, you can’t hang out the whole series here. And inviting me to my blog is somehow incorrect, like, I’ve gotten into the wrong site and invites ...
  9. black_eagle
    +2
    8 February 2013 09: 55
    I didn't quite understand something about the refueling tanker? Why is it special? The difference in refueling, well, the maximum, so to speak, is in the refueling "pistol", but if you wish, you can fill all this from the canister, another thing is that the fuel that Mistral needs cannot be stored in the same bucket with our fuel, so you just need to equip a separate bucket for the mistral on our tankers, and not a new ship to do and even more so to buy / rent
    1. +3
      8 February 2013 10: 06
      there they talked about new supply vessels. Which are very good.
      1. black_eagle
        +3
        8 February 2013 11: 28
        ... and take our branded rugs, and a handbag with keys ... it sounds like this
    2. 0
      9 February 2013 09: 18
      The author in the article talks about tankers with a fuel quality control system. We have it, but different from NATO standards. From the school I remember the table of correspondence between our fuel and their fuel and theirs, far from all of them could be poured into ours - ours broke faster!))))
  10. +3
    8 February 2013 10: 20
    I THINK WHAT I THINK, WE HAVE A CLASS OPERATING TIME IN THE EASTERBOARD
    YAK-141 GDP. HOW MUCH IS IT HEIGHT? SO THESE THESE MISTRALS CAN BE USED AS THE BASIS FOR BASING THIS IMPACT COMPLEX. A WHAT THE DECK ALLOWS. WELL OUR SCREW AND FOOT BAR FOR FABRICATIONS. NOTHING SOON HE WILL BRING OUT .. laughing
    WE WILL TEACH HIS RUSSIAN MANNERS, AND THAT HE DOES NOT REQUIRE SPECIAL MERGING THIS IS A GREAT PLUS.
    IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO ANOTHER OTHER, LET'S PREPARE THIS FLOAT FOR US. BASE UNDER OUR EQUIPMENT, AND OUR EQUIPMENT HERE ALREADY NURSING IT IS NOT WORSE THAN "ADMIRAL KUZNETSOV"

    IT IS ALREADY IMPOSSIBLE TO REFUSE AND THE WILD IS UNSETTABLE, SHOULD HOW TO WAY FROM THE POSITION.

    VON AFTER OUR COSSACKS, "BISTRO" APPEARED IN FRANCE AND HAVE ANOTHER ONE ... laughing
    1. +2
      8 February 2013 10: 54
      The Saratov combine plant, which developed the YAK-141, ordered to live long. This wonderful car needs to be rebuilt. Who will give money for this? They don't have enough money to go to their dachas.
  11. itr
    +3
    8 February 2013 10: 32
    Fuel!!!!! A! wow! eh! yah you
    it’s necessary to rejoice that it can finally be, in Russia, decent fuel factories will start to produce rather than donkey urine
    Do you know why the metro in the USSR was built in marble ?????? Yes, because there was not a single tile factory !!! and then appeared
    Well, here you have to build gentlemen
    1. +4
      8 February 2013 14: 38
      Quote: itr
      Do you know why the metro in the USSR was built in marble ?????? Yes, because there was not one tile factory


      It’s good to drive, it was full of plants they were called Pottery-tiled plants or workshops
      1. postman
        +1
        9 February 2013 22: 42

        Yeah. how to give out crap, so at least immediately fall ....
  12. +4
    8 February 2013 10: 59
    Highways can become locomotives for the movement of the fleet and the corresponding industry towards development. A certain level is set, to which it is necessary to be pulled. Perhaps this causes panic among those who do not want to reach out.

    Fuel, lubricants - it’s high time to produce high-quality oil refining products ourselves, reducing the sale of crude oil. For Russia, this should generally become a priority in development.
  13. +2
    8 February 2013 11: 00
    All domestic fit. It's just like with a car, you fill in non-certified oil - you fly off the guarantee.
  14. Owl
    0
    8 February 2013 11: 09
    The sponsors of this deal are "teddy bear" and Serdyuk. Where are they? One is the head of the government, the other is "temporarily unemployed" (I would like the State to provide them with jobs for 10-20 years).
  15. 0
    8 February 2013 11: 34
    <<< .... a huge tangle of thousands of problems (in connection with the purchase of "Mistrals") ..... This tangle in general, not a single person can imagine, hundreds of specialists are needed to at least raise questions, compose list of obvious and possible problems. >>>
    It turns out that we HAVE such a person - a superman, and not one. Mr. Taburetkin and Co, as well as the iPhone who is protecting him, who actively advocated the purchase of imported military equipment, know (at least SHOULD have) the answer and solution to all these problems, since they made a decision and signed a contract with the French for the purchase "Mistrals" for a LOT of money. Now let the bodies investigating "Oboronservice" and other "achievements" in the reform of the RF Armed Forces now pose all these questions to the former minister and, if no intelligible answer is given to them, then qualify it as DIVERSION, as a deliberate intention to inflict harm to the defense capability of Russia.
  16. -1
    8 February 2013 12: 01
    Article plus! At least the topic of how state administration in Russia has been carried out over the past 20 years has been convincingly disclosed. So in everything !! The motto of our government is: "We decided and we don't care how you will do it later! But if it turns out badly, we will punish it." I have a strong feeling that the current rulers have outplayed DOOM shooters in god mode. They really believe that by pressing the heels of the keys, you can enter a state in which you can do whatever you want and you won't get anything for it.
    Especially DAM suffers from this, by the way, during his presidency did the Mistrals buy or am I mistaken? As the classics of communism said: They are infinitely far from the people.
  17. +4
    8 February 2013 12: 17
    I live on Sakhalin and all the Japanese cars I have been driving for the past 20 years (and I have never had Russian cars) - I refuel with Russian fuel and oil .. and nothing ... they drive like nice ... I think that with ship equipment there will be a similar situation .. in an extreme case there will be a motive to improve the quality of fuels and lubricants produced in Russia ... so I think not everything is so scary ...
    1. -1
      8 February 2013 12: 46
      A man sits on a tree, can’t get down, calls for help. Two others throw a rope at him, say: tie up! He got in touch. The two below pull and pull him down. What!, Groans and groans. Duc, this, yesterday, in this way, a man was taken out of the well and nothing, it turned out well.

      Dear, I myself thought that I wrote. Only 20 years and not on one, mind you, I drove a car, and the ship will also change how gloves will be?
    2. +1
      9 February 2013 10: 02
      If it's not a secret what kind of domestic oil you pour and what kind of engine you have on your car. I, too, have never had a Russian car industry - but I did not dare to pour Russian oil into an imported car and those fluids! In addition, I have not seen Russian Dekhstron (or rather, automatic transmission fluid). What are you pouring there? Also Russian oil? And if the manufacturer recommended, for example, 0W20 from Russian production, what would you recommend? There was an experience of filling the Russian "Dew" and the subsequent replacement after 12 tons of km of oil seals and rubber bands (all) in the brake system.
  18. 0
    8 February 2013 12: 40
    The steamer is really cool. Especially if it is used correctly.


    And we can probably use this dish somewhere in the area of ​​the Marquise Puddle. The Mistral has high sides, i.e. gigantic windage. This will lead, in a strong side wind, to great difficulties in navigation. When turning 90 degrees. in fresh weather, you can play overkil.
    1. 0
      8 February 2013 16: 18

      As I see, land "patriots" do not like it? And I saw how the ship turned over when changing course during a storm!
  19. +1
    8 February 2013 13: 33
    Lubrication ... diesel fuel ... it is better who said lope he can be in the sea at all ... he is only for the summer, and there for fun ... excuse me ... winter's, ice's ... and they categorically do not tolerate ... freeze's ... like compatriots in 1812.
    1. postman
      +3
      8 February 2013 13: 56
      Quote: Strashila
      and there for fun ... excuse me ... winter's, ice's ... and they categorically can't stand it ... they are freezing ... like compatriots in 1812.

      Yeah. Oh, they’re freezing.
      look at Ust Luga, St. Petersburg, Murmansk ...
      Raid, queue for wiring.
      If they can’t, the icebreaker works
      Port of Helsinki, Kotka, Hanko, Turku
      Hanko plate only (court date of arrival / departure).
      Is everything Russian? And only in the summer?
      1. +2
        8 February 2013 14: 58
        Dear what happens to process fluids when temperatures drop ... they thicken properly ... besides, the laws of thermal expansion for metals have not yet been canceled by anyone, and the resistance to electricity ... this is to say that you clicked the icon with - 20 degrees overboard, and the pitcher did not plop ... but it does not work and should not work, because who in France did not expect when it was planned that this pelvis at -20 will be used ... in our country -20 is not the limit. -20 degrees, add wind, the temperature is equivalent to -30, and possibly lower, considering humidity ... the Mistral support life system is designed for this ... it will quickly turn from a landing into a refrigerator. We decided to launch a super-duper computer ... it’s 10 starts ... you do this experiment at home with an ordinary home computer. And this entails a change in the entire climate on the ship, humidity and, as a consequence, condensates, there is no gut, especially for electronics and electricians, mechanisms, it took a short time there. It was cold ... they decided to get warm, and the generators and electric networks of the ship are designed for such a load. ... I'm very sleepy ... it's just that the designers do not represent all this ... this is a nightmare from disaster films for them, but commonplace for our sailors.
        1. postman
          +2
          8 February 2013 17: 04
          Dear, and what is the relation of bunker tanks (and who designed them) to diesel fuel?
          PERSONALLY traveled to Renal Värtsilä (on a European solarium) on a Renovo diesel engine, route: Travemünde-Malmo-Norway-Sweden, foundling, Finland and MATP. In Finland and Karelia it was -28, -31 (overnight).
          I refuel in Karelia and went to Helsinki and then to St. Petersburg.
          And what? = Nothing.
          But in 2001 it froze by 7, when driving from Helsinki to Baalimaa, 20 km to Kotka.
          On a Mercedes 3.0DTD.
          SOLAR was German (up to -12). It was -25.
          Threw for 17 days in Finland.
          Quote: Strashila
          but it does not work and should not work, because who is in France?


          I have in operation since 1998 ONLY diesel cars (including highly forced ones, now EC: Euro5). Only roosiyskiy diesel fuel. ALL MACHINES from "warm" Germany, execution NOT NORDIC-3. And?
          And no problems (on our diesel fuel)!
          1n time the joint was, refueling at Slavneft (it happened), at -28. No more foot

          Quote: Strashila
          the life support system of Mistral is designed for this.

          Was the conversation about LSS? or about oil and diesel fuel?


          Quote: Strashila
          It’s cold ... we decided to get warm, and the generators and electric networks of the ship are designed for such a load .... I very much sleep ... just the designers do not represent all this ..

          I will surprise you a little.
          ALL SHIPS Finnlines (13 Ro-Po vessels between six countries and eleven ports of Europe) are practically a Monopoly on shipments in the Baltic), which "crawl" through the Baltic and in the ice Botniki, in our water area SPb-ALWAYS (all the time) - Ice class (0 or 1 don't remember) MADE IN SUNNY ITALY.
          Because Finlines "bought"

          (yes, yes, that "family" of fighters for the independence of Italy - GADF)
          And?
          And no problems. Personally, I was on board when 8,5 hours made my way to Helsinki Sattama. It was -23.
          No problems: no condensation, no cold, no "thickening" of technical fluids.
      2. +1
        8 February 2013 17: 28
        Vasya, so can he hold any ice or not?
        1. postman
          +3
          8 February 2013 20: 12
          Quote: Vadivak
          so can he hold any ice or not?

          How many I did not dig, no. only with frost ...
          PC7
          or in our (almost)
          Ice1 (LU1) - Independent episodic swimming in the shallow, rarefied ice of the non-Arctic seas and in continuous ice in the channel behind the icebreaker with an ice thickness of up to 0,4 m.
          the class is commercial. south. neither in France nor in its colonies did they see ice

          and how is it possible with such plumb ?:



          But of course, this has nothing to do with DT fuel and lubricants and the "absence" of them.
          AND WHAT HIM DOES IT DO IN ICE?
          And with whom? Sweden, Norway. Finland or Alaska?
          imagine the landing of the "marines" ..... belay

          CAMRANI- the place of its basing, or INDIA (we will agree: we are a bit of Anadyr to them, they are a PIECE to us at Thiruvananthapuram (blaming my tongue and hands) - and all type good )
          Then we are in Indian, and the Indians will not be deprived of the shelf of the Arctic (we will not be able to cope with human resources)
          1. Nechai
            +1
            8 February 2013 20: 32
            And we already have experience of such an attempt in the Indian Ocean - on the island of Diego Garcia. Did not know? That's right ... When the Union showed interest in the entire atoll, its rulers immediately rushed to social services. development ways. And they walked along it until the USSR fulfilled ALL preparatory earthen, bottom-deepening, etc. for its money. works, built berths, airfield, fuel storage. And then the "fact" of this island in the British Crown was revealed. The queen is very upset with sho kakit crooks dispose of her property. We have a five-year funeral in full swing. They wiped themselves off and left. And by magic, a US air and naval base was formed on this island.
            1. postman
              +1
              8 February 2013 21: 10
              Quote: Nechai
              Did not know?

              "Knew"
              Only you confuse DG from Mahe Island. (Seychelles, and if more specifically with the port of Victoria.
              In general, everything was not so there:
              1. DG (OUR never were there) Famous 60s story about "cleaning" and "sanitizing" the Chagos archipelago
              / Art. 7 of the statute of the International Criminal Court, it is noted that “deportation or forced relocation of residents” constitutes a crime against humanity. -To the death penalty /
              and all that for a discount of $ 14 million for the acquisition of the American nuclear submarine Polaris
              Since 1973, a large American military base has been operating on the island.
              In 2000, the Supreme Court of England confirmed that the eviction was unlawful and that island residents have the right to return there.
              Is that where our throats are? all THAN IT IS NECESSARY TO ACHIEVE THE SOLUTIONS OF THE AC OF Britain!

              2. "Soviet Navy in the Seychelles"
              Very first and the only thing a visit to the port of Victoria when the Seychelles were still a colony of Great Britain was carried out by a ship of the Soviet Navy in 1967. It was probably one of the ships of the 8th squadron of special-purpose ships sent to the Indian Ocean to support the space program. This area was quite attractive for the basing of ships of the Indian Ocean squadron. Therefore, in the neutral waters near the Seychelles during Operation Tidal 2 in 1968, several deep-water buoys were laid for the maneuverable basing of our fleet. In December 1968, the killer vessel of the expedition "Keel-21" put on the Fortune bank (7 ° 15 'south latitude, 57 ° 10' east longitude) anchorage equipment consisting of six barrels. On all barrels, at the direction of the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, the inscriptions "Belonging to the USSR" were made in Russian and English. The ships suitable during the storm could not calmly stay at the bank, while the ships standing on the bank did not feel a great heave. Significant wavelength attenuation was observed at the edge of the can. Barrels were actively used immediately after installation. The floating base "Ivan Kucherenko" and the submarines "B-95" and "B-98" that were part of the expedition were delivered on special roadstead equipment. And later this area was studied by the ships of the Soviet fleet, so on May 23 - September 25, 1976 to the Maldives and Seychelles the cruise of the R / V Callisto of the Institute of Marine Biology carried out the research topic "Adaptation of reef-building corals to light".

              Sergeant of the MP battalion Yudin Sergei Mikhailovich recalled: “... there was also the first official visit of Soviet ships to Seychelles. The places are beautiful, walked there on the shore, rested. "

              June 30, 1976 established diplomatic relations with the USSR.
              On June 5, 1977, as a result of an armed coup, the United Party of the People of Seychelles came to power.

              NOTE: A total of 2 people died.
              Well, then there is a whole story. ONLY this is not DIEGO GARCIA !!!
          2. 0
            8 February 2013 20: 54
            Quote: Postman
            Independent episodic swimming
            Well, besides swimming, they probably do not know how.
            1. postman
              +2
              8 February 2013 21: 15
              Quote: Mechanic
              they probably do not know how.

              Behind the icebreaker, with an ice thickness of up to 0,4 m, it seems like they should.
              More: damage to cars and the body.
              BUT QUESTION: where do they land the Marine Corps? On Svalbard?

              Of course, it would be better to order from the Finns IA: like all ships of Transfennica, Finnlines and others like them.
              But!!!
              Who supported us on 08.08.08?
              Do we need a SAGEM (Ring Laser Gyroscope, TNF, Avionics, OMS)?
              France is the only one not bound by patent obligations (all its own) with the United States.
              ============
              You have to pay for everything in this world. Better than with Libya.
              1. +1
                8 February 2013 21: 52
                Well, you +. But what does Libya have to do with it?
                1. postman
                  +2
                  9 February 2013 02: 01
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  But what does Libya have to do with it?
                  good
                  Damn, I dulled running away to watch the arrow ...
                  to pay. all further was (should have been) for Nechai
                  Quote: Nechai
                  Grasped and left.

                  I mean, you have to work with the Hindus and not dare to go to joint programs with them.
                  We are two self-sufficient countries without friction.
                  Joint development of the shelf, the Indian Navy base, the Air Force in Taimyr or Kamchatka, they are at the Navy base at home (just for the Mistral)
                  They have human resources (almost unlimited). Peace, friendship.
                  And Libya's GDP was forgiven (for the sake of its Oligarchs) debt (something 4,2 billion)
                  I wrote.
                  http://topwar.ru/23611-rossiya-postavila-venesuele-gaubicy-msta-s-i-zrk-pechora-
                  2m.html # comment-id-876518

                  And the fig?
                  1. 0
                    9 February 2013 09: 12
                    For the Postman ... it doesn’t matter where the ship was made ... it was important to take into account its operating features during the design ... I can give a historical example ... everyone knows the epic of the crew and passengers of the ship Chelyuskin. The ship was purchased in Britain, i.e. was new ... but the problem was that it was not designed for operation in our high latitudes ... what resulted and what ended ... read the history textbook.
                    1. postman
                      0
                      9 February 2013 13: 14
                      Quote: Strashila
                      no matter where the ship is made

                      I kind of wrote about it myself - the finnlines ships were all built in Italy, the exploitation of the northern Baltic, by the way the previous Hansa class, built in Germany and Finland, they sent to ITALY (and they are 1A ice).
                      Quote: Strashila
                      the ship Chelyuskin everyone knows.

                      This is no longer exploitation in our latitudes. This is extreme
                      Quote: Strashila
                      read the history tutorial.

                      that's for me?
                      If for me, then for the third time I’ll start soon (children), in the third variation (USSR, RF Yeltsin, RF Putin)
          3. +2
            10 February 2013 16: 51
            Quote: Postman
            CAMRAN - place of its basing


            Duck handed it over, empire damn ..... Gazprom
            1. postman
              0
              12 February 2013 03: 06
              Quote: Vadivak
              Well, they handed her over

              I have been sad about this since the moment I passed it .....
  20. postman
    +2
    8 February 2013 13: 36
    Quote: Author
    Russia does not have such fuels and lubricants that are needed for the operation of Mistral. Both combustibles (fuel) and lubricants - they say, even wrote comrade Rogozin on his twitter. True, I did not write about fuel - I could not think of such a thing. But about the lubricant - he wrote literally. If you want, read here. And for those who are too lazy, I will quote:

    Lazha, and Comrade Rogozin would spend less time on tweeter and LiveJournal: it would be better if it were a deed.
    The PR man is still that
    ======================
    GOST 305-82. Diesel fuel
    This standard applies to fuels for high-speed diesel and gas turbine engines of land and marine equipment obtained from the processing of oils and gas condensates, as well as for supplies for export. Type I diesel fuel is put into circulation for export, for federal state needs state defense order and for ship equipment
    QUESTION FOR FANTASERS: What are foreign vessels bunkering at in St. Petersburg, Ust Luga, Murmansk, etc.?
    Are they taking with them?
    Oil (all) is the same, even listing does not make sense: GOST 17479.1-85 + all approvals of MB, MAN, VW, Audi, ZF, Volvo, Scania, etc.
    Teboil bought back by Lukoil
    the whole range of motor, transmission oils and technical fluids.
    + Rosneft
    + Gazpromneft
    + BNP + Shell + and so on
    Worth the most modern equipment.
    Additives or import
  21. +1
    8 February 2013 15: 02
    In the end, it turns out, as with the Olympics ... they planned one thing, got another, but much more expensive. My opinion is that the Investigative Committee should again go the pages of the Criminal Code.
  22. +3
    8 February 2013 15: 34
    What enchanting nonsense the author has. And after all it is necessary - he really thinks that the duck flying the other day is a beautiful pigeon with news that Mistral is not real
  23. 0
    8 February 2013 15: 56
    Regarding the fuel-delirium, definitely!
  24. evil hamster
    +1
    8 February 2013 16: 02
    Honestly amazed. To understand that mega-sensation about fuel quacks, some knowledge, the Internet and 5 minutes of time are unnecessary - this is quite enough. But they don’t write lengthy articles full of delirium to the top, leave sad comments, I don’t know to laugh or cry
    1. Fletcher
      0
      10 February 2013 17: 01
      Knowledge is always needed. Especially useful - practical. I have worked in industry for 30 years and I know what a violation of technology is. And what is the removal from the Goaontia, I also imagine.
  25. 0
    8 February 2013 16: 27
    Quote: evil hamster
    ... don't know to laugh or cry ...

    What to do? As Vladimir Ilyich Lenin used to say - LEARN, LEARN and LEARN!
  26. spok
    0
    8 February 2013 18: 08
    about Mistral
    Mom bought a conic, and a conic without a leg.
    Yaka miracles igrashchka bu gi-gi-gi-gi
    Mom bought another, and another without a leg.

    “The purchase of the first two ships was Putin’s decision,” the publication quotes the words of the military expert of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Konstantin Makienko.
    Anatoly Serdyukov did not take into account the interests of domestic military manufacturers and bought weapons abroad. Moreover, he carried out cardinal and costly reforms; he wanted to transfer the army to a contract basis.
    Nevertheless, the new Minister of Defense did not upset foreign partners. “Sergey Shoigu will work within the framework of continuity and confirm the contracts signed with foreign arms suppliers. Moreover, he loves French culture, and we have had excellent relations with him for a long time. ”
    olympiad xnumx
    summit in vladivostok
    that's where the money needed to build ships and reform the army

    Quote: Understudy
    My opinion is that the Investigative Committee should again go the pages of the Criminal Code.

    three bodies will be enough
  27. +2
    8 February 2013 19: 36
    I don’t understand not only the problem of fuel, but also the method of refueling - what kind of "NATO special tankers or the warranty is canceled" - what is nonsense
  28. Vova
    0
    8 February 2013 20: 16
    Only Mistral will save the Kuril Islands!
  29. Nechai
    0
    8 February 2013 20: 45
    The Kuril Islands, in the current state of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, will be saved by a new strain of influenza with the highest virulence, on the islands a bit south of them.
    To the ministry instrumentalists, I want to remind the story of the regiment on the MiG-29, which the Bundeswehr inherited from the NNA GDR. West-dyuchi as much boiling water ... for joy WHAT they got the technique, and even for free! But the holiday was short-lived. The cash reserves and NZ required for the operation of the MiGs are over. BOSHES themselves did not even think of providing the necessary release - they have bad nemes! They are friends with head, logic, technical knowledge and bogalertiy. There was only one way out - to turn to Boris. But here Uncle Sam got up on his hind legs and persuaded the Germans to sell the MiG-29 ... He won’t bargain much for how much they would buy, and the Pentagon naturally compensated for the losses - he didn’t feel sorry for the chopped bamaga.
    1. Windbreak
      0
      8 February 2013 23: 29
      Quote: Nechai
      There was only one way out - to turn to Boris. But then Uncle Sam got up on his hind legs and persuaded the Germans to sell the MiG-29
      In 2003-2004, the Germans gave all MiG-29s to Poland for free. Where did the Poles come from, where are the available reserves and missiles for Czech, German, and MiG-29s delivered to the USSR?
      1. +1
        8 February 2013 23: 38
        Windbreak,
        I remember the Germans after the unification, they said that they would give the moments to Poland, and they themselves would replenish their Eurofighter Air Force, but for a long time they could not bring these machines to mind: The serious shortcomings found in the first serial Eurofighter machines became known a week ago from the materials of the Der Spiegel magazine and Die Welt newspapers. According to these publications, military experts familiarized themselves in detail with the first eight fighters that entered service with the German Air Force. The experts' verdict is disappointing: in its current form, the Eurofighter does not correspond to the declared parameters so much that "its operational use is excluded in the foreseeable future." The fighter cannot take off in fog or at temperatures below + 5 ° C. In addition, the aircraft cannot develop the required speed and gain the declared altitude. And the sighting device of his cannon does not allow to accurately aim it at the target.
        According to German media, the report contains a flattering comparison of the Eurofighter with the MiG-29, which, according to experts, surpasses the European "new generation aircraft" in many ways. Experts recalled that the integration of the remaining GDR MiGs into the German Air Force cost the Bundeswehr not billions, but only slightly more than 350 million euros. And then Russian aircraft began to be sold to the Polish army at a symbolic price of one euro, although, according to experts, they could be used even before 2008. Moreover, the received Eurofighter fighters will have to be refined for a long time. Plus it costs money. And that is why Germany, experts say, will not cost the amount of 24 billion euros allocated for the project. The new planes will cost the state budget at least 3,7 billion euros more.
  30. 0
    8 February 2013 21: 11
    The article - for not objectivity and hysteria, Mistral excellent spike you need to exploit faster to start.
  31. Nechai
    0
    8 February 2013 21: 27
    To the ministers of the Ministry of Structures - lads, where is your logic and consistency? You curse Joseph Vissarionovich and spoil Tupolev for his order - not to be clever, but blindly cap B-29! Like he is Stalin so, tyrant pancake and dictator! And the secret decision made on the Ministry of Construction is complete approval ?! Because it is tolerant-liberal ?! is it ...
    Believe me, all supporters of this masterpiece of this ship's device in the future are waiting for voluntary-compulsory unlimited service on both ships until the end of their life. One or the other, or in bulk ... So sho - seven feet per kilo! And tailwind!
    1. wax
      0
      9 February 2013 23: 15
      Stalin needed a bomb truck quickly and reliably, since it was precisely with B29 that bombs were dropped, i.e. the question was not only in the plane, but also in its already tested function
  32. 0
    8 February 2013 23: 23
    Representatives of physical bunker fuel suppliers interviewed by PortNews IAA in Russia did not agree with the statement about the lack of necessary fuel. Ships of the Mistral type run on diesel fuel and fuel oil of the IFO-180 brand, ”PortNews IAA confirmed in one of the largest bunkering companies in the North-West of Russia,“ the so-called NATO specification of marine fuels is no different from ISO standards, as well as GOST and technical specifications for the production of marine fuel in Russia. As for the type of engines, a large percentage of the ships in the world use similar engines. Therefore, any bunkering company can physically deliver fuel to such a vessel in Russia, the agency’s interlocutors are sure.

    In November 2009, the Mistral was in St. Petersburg on a visit. And he didn't bring fuel with him. Baltic Bunkering Company bunkered this vessel with 450 tonnes of diesel fuel (MGO 0,1)
  33. Fletcher
    0
    8 February 2013 23: 27
    Citizens readers!

    I am glad that I see such a lively discussion - that means the question is really relevant. Sorry that I can’t answer every comment in which the question sounds anyway. But!

    The trouble is, I write long. "Mistral" attracted my attention three more - THREE! - years ago, and then I wrote a whole series - four long articles. And then I repeatedly returned to the topic when there were reasons. The topwar administration cannot put it all here as one endless material!

    Therefore, the editor took my last note about fuels and lubricants, and added to it the FIRST OF THE FOUR. Therefore, by the way, everything is not clear at the transition point: why does the author suddenly start talking about kickbacks and any other trivialities?

    This was just the beginning! Moreover, three years ago, this fact also matters. And then I described everything that came into my head regarding the problems that the Mistral brings us. And on the integration of weapons, means of detection and information display. And through communication channels, exchange protocols with interacting connection forces, the coast and others. And on the compatibility of hardware and software platforms of onboard computers. And also in many ways.

    Why did I write, they say, we must follow the press, we will see a lot more, because I’m sure that fuel and lubricants are not the last thing our people are pushing for in this thoughtless, adventurous deal. Actually, you know, what pathos of my series? Here's the one: there will be many problems; Does anyone think of them? Funds for solving these problems are laid at the stage of elaboration of the contract, or will we continue to pull and pull from the budget year after year?

    Remember, I asked these questions THREE YEARS BACK! And now, I see, they are broadcasting: a commission on military-technical issues has been created ... Damn, it should have been done three years ago !!

    If you read the whole series, maybe there would be less complaints against me, and questions too. Honestly, one first part without the rest looks lightweight, and I see criticism, in general, understandable. Who really interested - come in. As I understand it, it is forbidden to put active links here, so I’m spoiling the link with underline:
    _http: //bwana.ru/? p = 2198 This is the second part of the series, the first is here.

    If you can't put any link at all, and the editor will throw it out, just go to my blog, type "Mistral" in the search, and among what comes out, find "Damned questions of our time, part 2" And then the parts there are linked by links ...

    I repeat: I tried to go through all levels of possible future problems, from the tactics of the Marine Corps to the discipline of programming, which the French must not be like ours. And this means that we can’t insert anything into the French on-board software when needed. And if we can, then with great difficulty and an unwarranted result. To whom it is interesting - I invite you to my dagger.
    1. +3
      9 February 2013 02: 08
      Thanks, dear author, but it complicates everything.
      Napoleon asks the marshals why the battle is lost. The Chief Marshal says, “Sire, for a hundred reasons. First: the shells were not delivered on time ... "-" Enough first "- says the emperor
      UDC-class ocean ships operating as part of amphibious groups and designed to land and support the actions of large landing groups.
      Does today's Russia have the need and ability to carry out large offensive landing operations? The answer is no
      Does the Russian Federation have and in the near future will have other ships for amphibious groups? The answer is no
      Resume-purchase Mistral is absolutely pointless. The transaction is purely political and political.
      The question is closed, you can not discuss further.
  34. 0
    9 February 2013 00: 04
    LIFE CONSISTS EXCLUSIVELY FROM JACKAGES!
    Those who dream of an ideal pastime should not have been born at all, but to remain in heaven singing ALILUYA.
    There is no perfect technique, just like life, it consists of schools and listing an endless list of shortcomings will not save us from the need to use the technique that is available to us as much as possible. The Mistral is just one of the opportunities to strengthen our fleet. Is it worth it to refuse?
    The answer is obvious!
  35. -3
    9 February 2013 01: 44
    Many here write "Russia is able to build itself ...." Yes, unfortunately, not able !!! Russia is not the USSR - it does not have a Nikolaev plant! And whether such a ship of the Navy is needed, you would rather ask the Navy itself, not here. Example Syria. They often shout here: We need to help Assad! And who will be interested in covering the landing of our troops from the air ?! Another example: the war in Georgia. Fortunately, the Georgians turned out to be unlucky fighters, but if not. Again, there would be a problem in the landing of an assault force from the sea against the enemy. Another example: the possible Japanese aggression against the Kuriles. And where are the helicopters based in the Kuril Islands ??? I am not at all against building my own ships. In the USSR, there were such. But at this stage in Russia, only the documentation for a ship of this class will take a lot of time. So Russia should follow the example of China in this respect. There people easily copy the innovations of military equipment from other countries.
    1. -2
      9 February 2013 16: 00
      The landing to help Assad ... wassat Wonderful and muddy individual representatives ...
      Here you are, dear, in the first wave.
      Japanese attack on the Kuril Islands! And the reflection of this by helicopters from the vulnerable landing trough of the UDC ... Das east fiction ... You would at your leisure compare the Japanese Navy with the forces of the Pacific Fleet. And Japan also has one ally at sea ... No, not the UDC with helicopters are afraid of the Japs.
  36. 0
    9 February 2013 01: 49
    The author is right. With the mess that we have in the Navy, Mistral expects a long and painful death at the pier. The deal itself is purely retreat. It's a pity for the people's money.
    1. 0
      9 February 2013 10: 21
      It is a pity that death (since I bought it). ((((
  37. -1
    9 February 2013 02: 18
    Please note that in response to the author I really try to select words. So :
    Dude, who are you fooling around here? What the fuck lapping paste? In a point rub yourself a lapping paste so that hemorrhage does not press on the brain. Are you completely moron or are they paying you to turn off the brain and retype it under dictation?
    1. 0
      9 February 2013 10: 22
      And my friend you need but to learn the culture.
      1. -1
        9 February 2013 13: 28
        I still put it very gently. My purely so-called.
        1. 0
          10 February 2013 07: 25
          So maybe it is even softer and to the point? Maybe a constructive dialogue will work out?
          1. Fletcher
            0
            10 February 2013 17: 38
            He won't do a damn thing, Lieutenant Colonel. Those who write about "pay" have no real argumentation. They don't need it, they have a different passion.

            By the way, I am an older stock, served in the 70s in the Strategic Missile Forces. Greetings to the senior in rank! :)
    2. Fletcher
      0
      10 February 2013 17: 34
      Does Mr. Expression Selector know that lapping pastes are not only served to the point? But they are also used in the repair of any "hardware" ... I personally in the Rocket Forces, during the ground control procedure, cleaned the contacts in the connectors with GOI paste. And there were five types of lubricants on my equipment, all hosted, and it was prescribed where to use which one, and God forbid to mix it up ... And five are only in my management.

      And I have said more than once that I don’t point out precisely the delicate places, I don’t know them, and no one knows, since the admiral ministers signed the contract, and the engineers are only allowed now. And I take these fucking pastas as an example, understand? An example in which I show what they’ve done, which you need to think about before buying anything. Did you buy an adapter from a European plug to a Russian outlet in the 90s? That's what I’m talking about: you need to think in advance, and not after you have given a billion.
  38. -1
    9 February 2013 08: 53
    Why did you run into these oils !!! Mistral is made from bow to stern according to completely different standards !!!
    Any of the wise men in the government of the Russian Federation at least once raised the topic of how compatible are the technical standards of the Navy of the NATO countries with the Russian (Soviet)? Has anyone seriously understood this?

    I think that of course not !!! A lot of noise, a lot of heated debate and then everything will be done as always in the case with the Democrats - through the ass !!! Sailors will swear - this is 200% ...

    A warship is far from a car !!! If in a long trip some imported crap breaks down - to the service station far
    pull, and who will take the tug - Nimitz or Enterprise? :)))))))))))))

    And why such a ship cannot be built in Ukraine? After all, I think it’s unlikely that the Nikolaev shipyards are fully loaded ... That you could agree with us - you will ship us - we will give you a discount on gas !!!

    So no, Russia is going to buy landing ships from the country - which was the first to attack Gaddafi !!! Here he is all cynicism - in words, they seemed to defend Gaddafi, but in reality such contracts are concluded with his 1st enemy Sarkozy :))))))))))))) Now it seems that Assad needs to be defended - again, some political snot - some maneuvers off the coast of Syria - what's the use of all this? Fights are already going on on the outskirts of Damascus ... I imagine if such a mess were brewed in a country where there are American military bases, they would not flicker for a long time ...
  39. saved
    0
    9 February 2013 09: 54
    In order to somehow summarize the entire dispute about the Mistrals about their suitability for our conditions, I will say this. If those two years when the contract was agreed upon and another 2 years when it is under construction, our specialists went and will go to France only to live in hotels and swim in the warm sea, then we will get what the author writes, but we don’t need everything still think that we are all so stupid and mediocre.
    1. Fletcher
      0
      10 February 2013 17: 39
      So the fact of the matter is that smart and gifted people are only now allowed to this topic! And I say - before it was necessary! About this and the article ...
  40. 0
    9 February 2013 11: 15
    It was necessary to buy one and develop your own DVDK, taking only the best from the French. What for us four French troughs (now probably just two), rearrange parts from one to another?
    1. 0
      10 February 2013 02: 17
      Perhaps this will be a revelation for you, but it was originally intended to be so. Buy ONE. Only the French, for some reason, got up in a pose ... They are kind of strange, just like we are with the Chinese. (we do not want to sell weapons by the piece)
  41. +1
    9 February 2013 11: 38
    I read you and remember my Vladivostok on the eve of the Summit. How many copies were broken at the expense of the bridges ... And that they will not converge and that they will collapse and that they will be blown away by the wind and fall asleep with snow. Skolko was said and proved. And Nitsche, people are now traveling on these bridges and probably even rejoice. And as for the Mistral, there are so many vysers ... Let the ship launch into the water and then howl and argue.
    1. 0
      10 February 2013 07: 34
      Bridges are really good! Sinful - thought it would be Mr., but ... a miracle happened - they stand and stand beautifully. I discovered many interesting places on Russky Island - namely, battery fortifications! People from the West - come see! This is really interesting (and bridges and batteries, and the location of the fleet.). Stop advertising! In essence - the ship unfortunately is not a bridge (although the bridge is also a complex engineering structure) - but it is in its static life cycle. The ship should be in dynamics - this is where the problems associated with the supply, refueling, repair and basing, etc.
      1. 0
        10 February 2013 08: 05
        Mistral is also a kind of "bridge". BDK 775 is making the Syrian coast closer.
  42. lucidlook
    +1
    9 February 2013 14: 25
    We do not have such tankers in the Navy - and never will be.


    Oh, my goodness, well, you’ll also buy a tanker, why the hell! You think! To buy, so to buy! I am brushing. In general, you might think how to, and in general, buy the entire French fleet? What? So surely we will not miss!

    Ps shame and shame. Really no one will answer for this?
  43. +1
    9 February 2013 14: 50
    In the 1920s, the Belomorkanal was built and the Northern Fleet was founded, and in the 1950s, nuclear submarines were already under construction there !!! At the pace, intentions and scale !!! And this despite the fact that they survived the terrible war ...

    And none of the common people even knew how many billions the government had swelled in there - because this info is needed, by and large, only to accountants and economists ... But every schoolboy knew about the Soviet Union construction projects and many dreamed of getting there ... And now governments boast of steep amounts of investment in the defense industry - but there’s not much sense in these billions ... As it happened more than once in history - the mountain begets the mouse :)))))))))

    You don’t have to buy it !!! Russia needs its facilities (design bureaus, docks, specialists, etc.) to build ships of this class ...
    1. 0
      10 February 2013 02: 20
      Do you dislike OSK? With its four shipbuilding clusters? (North, West, Far East, South Center for Shipbuilding and Ship Repair) And this despite the fact that 100% of the shares belong to Russia.
      1. +1
        10 February 2013 11: 16
        Here, someone wrote that in Russia there is no capacity for the construction of ships of the Mistral class ...

        If there is where to build and to whom to build, then why buy someone else's? It seems to me that the Mistral adapted to Russian conditions will be a kind of mixture of a bulldog with a rhino :) And it is unlikely that something traveling will come of it ...

        Ship control system, communication system, armament control system and a bunch of other instruments + plus equipment for controlling takeoff and landing of aircraft ... Will it all be Russian or French?
        1. 0
          10 February 2013 22: 21
          Here, someone wrote that in Russia there is no capacity for the construction of ships of the Mistral class ...

          This someone does not own the information. The stern is being built in Russia.

          Ship control system, communication system, armament control system and a bunch of other instruments + plus equipment for controlling takeoff and landing of aircraft ...

          For the sake of this and bought. There are many interesting nuances. Quotes from various media.
          Mistral is equipped with a DCN Senit 8 combat data processing system and will be compatible with the French fleet command system for joint operations SIC 21, which was developed by Thales. The high-performance communications center includes the Thales Syracuse III satellite communications system.
          .... In accordance with the intergovernmental Franco-Russian agreement signed in January 2011, DCNS and Rosoboronexport in June 2011 signed a contract for the construction of two UDCs in France. DCNS Corporation is the lead contractor and will also be responsible for the integration of the ship's combat information and control system (CIUS) and communications systems. The French company STX France will build ships under a subcontract with DCNS.
          .... infrared search and sighting systems "Vampir-NG" (Vampir NG). from "Sazhem" (group "Safran")
          Sagem has completely updated its product line in the field of optoelectronic systems. According to the estimates of the world's leading analysts in the market of optical electronic technologies, until 2020 the development of cooled infrared technologies will receive an additional impetus due to the development of Sagem serial production of full-format matrix photodetectors in 640x512 format, which will allow the company to finally establish itself as the world's leading enterprise in the thermal imaging market technicians.
          .... At the same time, as it was confirmed, the main shipborne surveillance radar will be the MRR-3D-NG G-band station of the Thales company, which has already been installed on three UDCs, which are part of the French Navy.
          Electronic ship support tools include the Thales ARBR 21 radar receiver, the G-band multi-purpose NG MMR-3D NG surveillance radar from Thales Naval France. The MRI-3D has an antenna with a light phased array and works as a radar of radar surveillance and as a sensor of a self-defense system with automatic mode switching.

          In the surface mode of observation MRI-3D NG can detect targets at low and medium altitudes at a distance of up to 140 km and in the far 3D mode of observation aerial targets up to 180 km. In self-defense mode, he can detect and track any threats in 60 km radius. Sperry Marine Bridgemaster navigation radar operates in the I-band.
          1. 0
            10 February 2013 22: 44
            In addition, the French do not object to the transfer of technology of the integrated mast I-MAST, which causes genuine interest among Russian "elektronshchiki".
            http://weaponscollection.com/23/2813-osnovnoy-konkurent-mistralya.html
  44. buhoi
    +3
    9 February 2013 17: 28
    Not only are engines like the Mistral ones used on many ships in Russia. So after all, the main ambush awaited an ignoramus and ignoramus (to say the least, given the position held) in the modern history with the Mistrals.

    In November 2009, the Mistral was in St. Petersburg on a visit. And he didn't bring fuel with him. Baltic Bunkering Company bunkered this vessel with 450 tons of diesel fuel (MGO 0,1). Well, as smart people write:

    Representatives of physical bunker fuel suppliers interviewed by PortNews IAA in Russia did not agree with the statement about the lack of necessary fuel. Ships of the Mistral type run on diesel fuel and fuel oil of the IFO-180 brand, ”PortNews IAA confirmed in one of the largest bunkering companies in the North-West of Russia,“ the so-called NATO specification of marine fuels is no different from ISO standards, as well as GOST and technical specifications for the production of marine fuel in Russia. As for the type of engines, a large percentage of the ships in the world use similar engines. Therefore, any bunkering company can physically deliver fuel to such a vessel in Russia, the agency’s interlocutors are sure.

    Delete the article.
  45. psdf
    +1
    9 February 2013 22: 30
    Ordering / purchasing weapons abroad is direct investment in the military-industrial complex of those countries.
    In any case, the purchase of weapons abroad is a blow to its economy as a whole.
    In our country, the Army and the military-industrial complex have always been very closely integrated. So much so that even more than 20 years of reform did not completely break this connection. I'd like to strengthen this connection.
  46. Kavtorang
    0
    10 February 2013 13: 10
    Dear, without even reading the previous measure of the MPH - I am reporting literally the TK of Mayr-General Pushkin, the commander of the Pacific Fleet BV, when he was demanded to land 155 BRMPs on the command post in the Kuril Islands, taking into account that the Pacific Fleet has Mistrals. And corvettes, construction of ASZ (Yes, those same "Guardians" - tru-la-la is attached).
    So, the opinion of the general with an academic education: the first item, the last one - a preventive strike by TNWs against all PVMB of one friendly Island State. Otherwise, it’s impossible to get from Primorye to the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin - they’ll put demons and boxes and the whole brigade.
    Thank you for your patience.
    PS: "Yes, we have them with one hat in six seconds" - go ahead smile
    1. 0
      11 February 2013 06: 05
      Quote: Kavtorang
      Dear, not even reading the previous measure of the MPH - I report verbatim to TK Mayor-General Pushkin - Commander of the Pacific Fleet,

      Well, at least one sane person in Russia has remained, and it’s nice smile
  47. Alikovo
    0
    11 February 2013 13: 00
    better for the money allocated to the Mistrals, you can build 2 of your own aircraft carrier
    1. Fletcher
      0
      12 February 2013 14: 52
      And BDK, probably, it was possible to build six pieces ... plus a control ship with five to six helicopters
  48. OATS
    0
    12 February 2013 00: 01
    The first thing I asked when I found out about the Mistral, with helicopters and landing boats ????? They answered ------ and with the crews.
    1. Fletcher
      0
      12 February 2013 14: 52
      Good answer bully
  49. 0
    13 February 2013 12: 21
    The article is built on almost the same assumptions! One alarmist! Minus article ...
    1. Fletcher
      0
      13 February 2013 16: 45
      The article was written three years ago. All these, yes, assumptions then made sense. Because the main question was: does anyone think about these "little things"? Three years ago, this question was very pertinent. And now the first swallows have crawled, testifying: no, no one thought (which I was afraid of). And now it makes sense to reprint the article because there is still a lot of things said. You look, something else will come true ...

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