"Izborsk Club" proposed the idea of ​​"Big Tug" of Russia

The Izborsky Club called for the creation of a Strategic Council of Russia - a special non-partisan structure, independent of the influence of the corporate lobby. This proposal is contained in the club’s report on the strategy of the “Big Breakthrough” for modern Russia.

What is the Big Jerk? According to members of the Izborsk club, this is “The only exit for Russia from the systemic crisis that has developed in the world. The Big Jerk is impossible without the transformation of the entire post-Soviet space, where the state again becomes the main subject of politics. For this, a new type of elite is needed that would have a national consciousness. ”

The document consists of eleven sections covering the problems of politics, economics and social structure of Russia in the 21 century. Particular attention is paid to the military-industrial complex and the country's defense. The authors argue that the unfolding global crisis carries with it a “chance for Russia”, but only if it is mobilized according to a specially developed and proposed scenario.

A significant part of the program paper of the Izborsk Club is devoted to ideology: “For detailed elaboration of the ideology of a mobilization project, it is necessary to single out a special structure with political will, independent of the influence of the corporate lobby and the interweaving of personal and clan official interests. Such a body can be called the Strategic Council of Russia, ”the report’s authors suggest.

As you know, the Izborsk club was established in September 2012 in the city of Izborsk, Pskov region. The club’s institutions were initiated by well-known public-political, literary-publicistic and scientific figures of Russia of a state-patriotic orientation. The "highlight", a sign of the club that distinguishes it from other Russian socio-political entities, is that for the first time in modern Russian stories unification took place on a common platform of “white”, promonarchic and “red”, pro-Soviet imperials-statesmen. The catalyst for the unification was the reaction to the ongoing political crisis in Russia, to the belolentochnoe comprador movement.

It draws attention to an unusually representative composition of participants. Among the 25-ti permanent members of the club writer and editor in chief of the newspaper "Tomorrow" Prokhanov (club chairman), director of the Institute for Globalization Problems Delyagin, President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems Leonid Ivashov, editor of the magazine "However" Mikhail Leontiev, advisor to the president of Russia Sergei GlazyevDirector of the Institute of Dynamic Conservatism Vitaly Averyanovwriter publicist Maxim Kalashnikov (V.A. Kucherenko), "Eurasians" Alexander Dugin и Valery Korovin, economist, publicist Mikhail Khazin, the ideological leader of the public organization "Trade Union of Citizens of Russia" Nikolai Starikov, editor-in-chief, Literary Gazette Yuri Polyakov, clergyman of the Russian Orthodox Church, Archimandrite Tikhon (Shevkunov) and others. All of them are people who are known for their critical attitude towards the liberal model of development of the country and have been defending the original vector of the Russian path for decades.

The ideological direction of the Izborsk club can be described as social conservatism, the synthesis into a single ideological platform of various views of Russian statesmen (from socialists and Soviet patriots to monarchists and Orthodox conservatives). The Izborsk club is often regarded as an alternative to numerous liberal-oriented venues that have long been claiming the expression and intellectual service of the official policy of the Russian Federation. At the same time, the Izborsk club reflects a mature and long-established political-ideological pole, which for a long time could not be formalized by virtue of targeted regulation of the expert field by the authorities in charge of domestic policy.

The initial hypotheses regarding the creation and activities of the Izborsk club mainly lie in the plane of relations with the official authorities. According to some observers, this is another Kremlin’s managed “project” designed to bring together the most dangerous critics of the authorities and give them the opportunity to “let off steam to the whistle” ili-feyskontrol-v -izborskom-klube.html).

Other experts also associate the establishment of the Izborsk club with the Kremlin’s initiative, but with the significant difference that the Izborsk club, according to the president’s idea, should play the role of a tool that is clean from Western influence and corruption, with which the vector will finally change. development of Russia.

The reaction of the authorities and Putin personally to the activities of the Izborsk club is still unknown. The “electors” themselves position themselves as a force independent of the will of the Kremlin. In their opinion, a lot of comprador-liberal evil spirits have accumulated in the levers of governing the country, and the media are simply captured by them. Moreover, members of the Izborsk club believe that liberalism is spiritually closer to the country's leadership. The near future, as they believe, should show whether Putin accepted the outstretched hand or all of his patriotic pro-imperial rhetoric - no more than a populist maneuver. At the same time, in the conditions of the developing political crisis in the country, the growing efforts of the West to annihilate the Russian state, the president may not have an alternative but to rely on the intellectual forces of the Izborsk club.

More details about the activities of the Izborsk club and its members can be found on the official website: http://www.dynacon.ru/index.php

Sources:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Изборский_клуб
http://vz.ru/news/2013/1/29/617978.html
http://ej.ru/?a=note&id=12560
http://www.1tv.ru/news/polit/225193
http://www.dynacon.ru/index.php

Comments

[Krsk]

Well, what if this is a chance really ...?

[older]

Quote: KrSk

Well, what if this is a chance indeed ...

That's what the calculation is about ... Without knowing all the fundamental documents of the club, people will follow the names ... Agree that the listed members of the club are not at all gray characters ...
The chance that is being offered implies another scrapping of something that has worked out a little ... Again, the old song, We will destroy the whole world of violence, to the base ... And then ...

[baltika-18]

Quote: older

Not knowing all the fundamental documents of the club, people will follow the names ... Agree that the listed members of the club are not at all gray characters ..

I agree with this. Individuals are really not ordinary. Yes, and in addition I can say that what Starikov is promoting is suppose to me very close and understandable, I hold the same opinion except for small nuances,

Quote: older

The chance that is being offered implies another scrapping of something that has worked out a little ... Again, the old song, We will destroy the whole world of violence, to the foundation

But here I do not agree. Why ruin? Just change. You are satisfied with the current situation, I am not. I am for change with both hands.

Quote: older

We will destroy the whole world of violence

And in conclusion: the "world of violence" must not be destroyed, it must be destroyed, once and for all, harshly and unconditionally, so that it could never be reborn later.

[older]

[quote = baltika-18] I don’t agree here. Why ruin? Just change. You are comfortable with the current situation, I’m not there. I stand for change with both hands. [/ Quote You argue with me .. And I just wrote in plain text that offered in slightly milder terms ...]
[quote = baltika-18] And in conclusion: the "world of violence" must not be destroyed, it must be destroyed, once and for all, rigidly and unconditionally, so that it would never be able to be reborn later. [/ quote] You seriously believe in that after the destruction it is possible to build a communist society? That a leader, a leader, a commander will have as much as a simple destroyer?
Alas, people are different in terms of mental inclinations, physical data, ability to work, and more ... And this automatically leads to the stratification of society and the emergence of exploitation of one another

[baltika-18]

Quote: older

Alas, people are different in terms of mental inclinations, physical data, ability to work, etc.

Of course, I agree. But this does not mean at all that someone just because a person does not have certain abilities and therefore works as a cattleman on a farm or as a cleaner can be considered cattle. And this is very common with us now.

Quote: older

And this automatically leads to the stratification of society and the emergence of exploitation of one by another

A private owner, the owner should not be an exploiter, but a leader. He was given abilities from birth, he didn’t take them himself, they were provided to him by the Creator. They are not provided to humiliate and exploit their own kind, but to guide and help, once he’s smarter. The question of morality and human upbringing is already here. And here, at the initial stage, the state should play its role. Redefining consciousness. You’ll say this is impossible. But we will come to this, regardless of whether people want it or not.

[domokl]

Quote: baltika-18

The private owner, the owner should not be an exploiter, but a leader. He was given abilities from birth, he did not take them himself, they were provided to him by the Creator. They are not provided for humiliating and exploiting themselves.

If a private trader risks his own property, his own life, his own money, then he will do this for anyone only if he has a lot more wage earner ... What is the risk of the worker? Nothing ... The enterprise fell apart, went to another .. .
And morality? The category for business is not particularly acceptable ... Look at how people work, for example, at Tayota factories in Russia ... Everything is moral, work, get a decent salary .. I made a violation, I went out without talking ... And nobody cares, that a person has a family, children, loans ...

[baltika-18]

Quote: domokl

for anyone, this will be dealt with only if he has a lot more employees

I have it, but I MUST treat employees as PEOPLE. I emphasize that the state should play a strong role in this matter. The state is not a thing in itself, we are all people. And the private trader also lives in the state, and not by itself. Without a state, he is nobody and nothing; outside the state, he is cosmopolitan and a traitor. To work for himself, for the state, for people. Here is the only true criterion for evaluation.

Quote: domokl

And morality? Category for business is not very acceptable ..

Within the state, the category of morality for business should be decisive. An immoral place on the bunk. Doing immoral business in relation to other states is quite acceptable.

[older]

Quote: baltika-18

treats Hired employees as PEOPLE.P

You raised an interesting question .. I also became interested .. How do you feel about it? Is there a Labor Codec where LABOR relations are clearly spelled out ... If at the conclusion of the contract one of the parties is not satisfied with something, the contract is either discussed or not signed at all ... In my opinion, so ... But about human relations there is nothing ...

[walter_rus]

This is precisely the law that is needed to ensure human attitude towards everyone, and not just towards the "chosen ones." And if the law does not provide this, it must be changed.

[Simon]

What morality can the owner of the enterprise have when he himself sets the wages of his employees, usually scanty and he doesn’t give a damn that utilities are increasing, that food prices, gas and gasoline are rising. How many immoral were sent to the bunks, they usually go to the Canaries.

[Egoza]

Quote: Simon

What morality can an owner of an enterprise have when he himself sets the wages of his employees,

Correctly! It means that the state should pass such a law so that the owner could not receive a salary only (let's put) 10 times more than his cleaning lady. Those. if you want to have more, increase your salary accordingly! And the workers will work in good faith to increase wages, and the owner will think about how to manage and what to do to make good profit.

[domokl]

Quote: Egoza

Correctly! So the state should pass such a law so that the owner could not receive a salary only (let's put) 10 times more than his cleaning lady

The owner receives not his salary but his part of the enterprise’s income ... This is his enterprise, he gave birth to him and has the right to kill him ... How will the state control it?
at the slightest pressure, capital will simply flow into offshore, and enterprises will switch to black cash ... This is a proven option .. When they introduced a seemingly larger income, most companies became very unprofitable ... And taxes were collected by an order of magnitude less

[YuDDP]

And without pressure, too ... There is such a thing: international tax planning. As long as there are low- and tax-free states in the world, they will be used. By the way, they are used by Google, Coca-Cola, Microsoft and other transnational corporations - only today 24 stories were shown in Russia.

[YuDDP]

Gentlemen, how naive you are. I am an employer. I don't need a salary at all. I use a company car in which I pour gasoline purchased by bank transfer, net of VAT. I have an office mobile. In the Canaries, I will fly on a business trip, etc. The conscientiousness of workers and the size of wages are in no way connected. Honesty is a quality of personality.

[domokl]

Quote: Simon

What morality can the owner of the enterprise have when he himself sets the wages of his employees, usually scanty and he doesn’t give a damn that utilities are increasing, that food prices are rising

And if you approach from a normal point of view? Employers, employees conclude a contract for the execution of certain types of work ... At the same time, they discuss all the conditions for both parties ... If something does not work out, please .. either negotiate further, or do not conclude a contract ...
The secret is that the owner works to earn as much as possible (in other words, like the employee) ... Otherwise, why would he organize the enterprise? Why risk his own funds and sometimes his life?
Until the country has an excess of labor in some places and a shortage in others, while entrepreneurs will make up for the shortage with cheap Asians, until the state blocks the flow of bribes, black wages will not be established until the control of purchases ...
For any employee will be deep in the ass ...

[I think so]

The childish babble of an amateur. Absolute lack of understanding of the essence of the relationship between the employee and the employer. No decrees, no laws and contracts will make the THIEF take care of the workers. Only his ruin or physical destruction and replacement by a more honest and conscientious person can change something. In the west, such relationships have been developing for centuries. There, the elite vychristolizovyvalis from the herd of the same bandits, thieves and mediocrity as here, FOR CENTURIES. Therefore, the local owner is fundamentally different from the local one. Further centuries of struggle of workers for their rights and wages created a whole layer of fighters and methods of influencing the "owner". And they are there REALLY fighting for their rights and wages. And then, after the Communists, there were whole generations of whining workers who think that the state SHOULD give it everything and force the employer to do something. In general, I think the introduction of capitalism in Russia after 80 years of wiping away snot and wiping the backside, to the working class by the state is madness, or a deliberate action to destroy the population of Russia. Now there is nothing left for Russians how to dutifully and work for a long time in the hope that in a couple of hundred years to get approximately the same result in the relationship between an employee and an employer as it is now in the West ... but who did you think, who said that destroying socialism would be easy? It will be easy only for the "owner", and for the worker - to plow and plow ...

[YuDDP]

Become a master and conclude with today's owner not a labor contract, but a contract ...

[Atlon]

Quote: baltika-18

. He was given abilities from birth, he did not take them himself, they are provided to him by the Creator.

It is said too loudly ... And I cannot agree with that! The whole history of capitalism does not imply "abilities given from God" at all, but absolutely godless behavior! A businessman is endowed with abilities not from God, but from the devil! Judge for yourself:
1. Unscrupulousness (as it will be more profitable and I will behave!)
2. Shamelessness (so what if children are starving, but I’m making profits!)
3. Impudence (modesty, destiny of the poor)
4. Inaudibility (the main profit, but at least the grass does not grow there!)
5. Greed (ever-increasing demands, give strength for development)
6. Theft and deceit (do not eat @ you do not live!)
Etc.

[baltika-18]

Quote: Atlon

The whole history of capitalism does not imply "abilities given from God" at all, but absolutely godless behavior! A businessman is endowed with abilities not from God, but from the devil!

I do not agree. All abilities are from the Creator. Changed consciousness from the opposite side, substitution of concepts, lies everywhere and in everything. The principles of capitalism, the principles of loan interest were created artificially. The third millennium in the yard, they will be destroyed, as they lead humanity to a dead end and to ultimately lead to destruction in the world carnage. And we must live, the end of the world is canceled once and for all. Russia will be the first country to go on a completely new path, it has already gained its right in the struggle, and no historical figures in our country They won’t be able to change the course of history abroad. Putin will leave, Russia will remain, great and mighty, which will unite many nations around him in a new quality never seen before by anyone.

[darkman70]

The classics said easier:
"At the heart of any great fortune is crime."
That says it all.)

[walter_rus]

Whoever happened to be in the right place at the right time and still managed to push competitors away from the feeder is now an oligarch. And the main problem of capitalism is that behind the hill, that in Russia is getting maximum profit. All capitalists want to pay less for the workers, and produce more products. But these products must be bought by the same workers on which their employers save (besides, unemployment is growing). This is the cause of crises. In this situation, the state should limit the appetites of business, but in reality it is taking on more and more functions to suppress the common people, so that the crisis will intensify further and how it will end, one can only guess.

[V. Salama]

Quote: baltika-18

The private owner, the owner should not be an exploiter, but a leader. He was given abilities from birth, he did not take them himself, they were provided to him by the Creator.

The owner and the leader are different concepts that imply different personality traits. In Russia, the work of managers is the highest paid and one of the least efficient. As one of the implementers of privatization projects in Russia (I do not remember the name) asserts: "none of the privatized enterprises has become more efficient." The owner-manager, in principle, is not able to ensure the implementation of the set of indicators of production management efficiency necessary to improve the well-being of the managed. Theoretically, this is counteracted by the main contradiction of capitalism (the contradiction between the social nature of production and the private property form of appropriation of the goods produced), and practically also the real conditions in which this production is carried out (a real deformed economy, built on parasitic principles). Morality should also be distinguished from morality, or it should be remembered that morality for each social stratum is different. Upbringing is the formation of qualities in the educated person in accordance with the goals of the educator. And who is this teacher? State? And what is it like with us? According to Lenin: "... there is no such question that would be so confused, intentionally or unintentionally, as the question of the state." If you focus on the fact that "life is the best educator", then there are Murphy's laws for this, that is, without management, well, nothing ...

Quote: baltika-18

... The idealist will say this is impossible. But we will come to this, regardless of whether people want it or not.

This is an illusion and idealism of pure water. Materialists master the universal means of analysis — dialectical materialism. And from this perspective, the idea of ​​obtaining the required (declared) results by creating the proposed structure, to put it mildly, is futile. I would rather believe in the victory of communism than in the existence of such a symbiosis. All this is organized to dust the brains of the people, although the subjects of this governing body may have sincere intentions, but they are called upon to play an unseemly role - they will distract from real problems, provide respite to liberals, instill false hopes and, at the right moment, be discredited and disbanded / planted / and t .P.

[DeerIvanovich]

moral stratification leads to stratification of society

[Egoza]

Quote: older

Do you seriously believe that after the destruction of the building of a communist society is possible?

Why immediately communist? Or does this word scare you? For a communist society to arise, it is necessary to educate more than one generation, and the level of the economy must be completely different. But it’s quite possible to put things in order, to thoroughly pull away the presumptuous officials and oligarchs.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: baltika-18

And in conclusion: the "world of violence" must not be destroyed, it must be destroyed, once and for all, harshly and unconditionally, so that it could never be reborn later.

No need to destroy it or destroy it. Need to change. Why do we always have everything to the ground first, and then ... Either on the wreckage of autocracy, then communism. Need to change methodically, is it really impossible without great shocks?

[Kaa]

Quote: baltika-18

what Starikov is promoting, suppose I’m very close and understandable, I hold the same opinion

I can not disagree with you. But the time has ripened for a BIG JERK, and ALL opportunities should be discussed. Unfortunately, there is no person of this magnitude ...

[baltika-18]

Quote: Kaa

But the time has ripened for a BIG JERK, and ALL opportunities should be discussed. Unfortunately, there is no person of this magnitude ...

Yes, Kaa. With this a little hitch came out. But I think it will appear soon. Russia for centuries has always given rise to large-scale personalities. This time I think the same will not fail.

[DeerIvanovich]

well, admit who among you is this most ambitious person

[walter_rus]

This is the problem of Russia - dependence on the next tsar (general secretary, president), who does not answer at all to the people. It was not for nothing that my grandmother, who, from Nicholas II to Yeltsin, called them all "tsars", now I understand how right she was, they are completely out of the control of society. Some "tsars" led quite well, but they were not always so lucky. Until the people force the authorities to reckon with themselves, our history will remain "Russian roulette".

[speedy]

In the late 20s, Stalin was also not considered a person of this magnitude, but he relied on the Big Leap, reliance on internal forces and took advantage of the World Crisis to purchase equipment, technologies and specialists for Industrialization. As a result, before the war, people healed as under the Tsar, and even in exile (my grandmother told me that they were peasants with their grandfather, they were not spoiled, but they could compare, they remembered, the next time this - as under the Tsar - said only in the mid-70s), it was prepared 100 thousand engineers, and we won the war and flew into space. Now the task is to reindustrialize, develop Eastern Siberia and the Far East, create 5 million jobs in industry and establish itself as a powerful Pole of Power. External factors contribute, but internal factors need to be worked on ourselves - and then there were Bukharins and Trotsky, and sabotage, and staff shortages - nothing new under the Moon, and now we will cope - we simply have no other choice. In general, as one leader said: "The goal is clear, the tasks are set - comrades for the work!" And let's talk about the scale of the personality in ten years, in another Russia.

[spok]

Quote: short-term

Now the task is to reindustrialize, develop Eastern Siberia and the Far East, create 5 million jobs in industry and establish as a powerful Pole of Strength

you're truly far from the Far East, so here I’ll clarify the situation a little; nobody is going to do anything and there will not be anything that dies at an accelerated pace
here -30 and Moscow still crushes teachers with salaries; they lowered their salaries; but in order to earn 30 rubles you need to hang out on business trips all month and this is work for oilmen for a woman 10 rubles is good for a man 20 wonderful
who wants to the far east?

[speedy]

Quote from spok

you're truly far from the Far East, so here I’ll clarify the situation a little; nobody is going to do anything and there will not be anything that dies at an accelerated pace
here -30 and Moscow still crushes teachers with salaries; they lowered their salaries; but in order to earn 30 rubles you need to hang out on business trips all month and this is work for oilmen for a woman 10 rubles is good for a man 20 wonderful
who wants to the far east?

So after all, that’s why the task is that things are bad now. After all, the doctor comes to the patient, new factories, cities, roads will grow - there will be a holiday on your street. In Vladik, my friend is completing a service, I recently finished another, I moved to Engels, so I heard that it’s not sugar, but if only whining, it won’t be any business. Patience and work, as our wise ancestors said.

[Goga]

soon passing - Colleague, everything you said is correct, but again the question arises of the relationship between the objective and subjective in history. The situations at the beginning and at the end of the 20th century are very similar, but then the IP succeeded, playing on the contradictions between the Zionist groups, pitting them among themselves, seizing power from them and realizing the Great Jerk. Unfortunately, it is unlikely that a person of the same scale will appear in our country in such a short period of time (less than 100 years).
All conversations like "there are no irreplaceable" - from my point of view, are not consistent.
And our opponents understand this. Jacob Schiff financed the assassination of Stolypin and that's it, the country followed a completely different path of development. And the bright hopes that since a breakthrough is so vital for us, there will certainly be people who will organize it - nothing more than hopes and their realization is not a fact. What the article says is a vital issue for us and the people gathered in Izborsk, with all their differences, sincerely want to achieve what they said - the trouble is that they are not at the helm and, with all my respect for them, they simply do not have enough meanness and resourcefulness (like Stalin) to get through to this very "rudder".
I know the Russian patriotic movement quite well (starting with Vasiliev's "Memory") and so far nothing serious, in practical terms, has come out of all this. Again the hopes that "Himself" will hear and be imbued with ... somehow such a perspective is not very encouraging ....

[ziqzaq]

Quote: baltika-18

Quote: older
Not knowing all the fundamental documents of the club, people will follow the names ... Agree that the listed members of the club are not at all gray characters ..
I agree with this. Individuals are really not ordinary. Yes, and in addition I can say that what Starikov is promoting is suppose to me very close and understandable, I hold the same opinion except for small nuances,
Quote: older
The chance that is being offered implies another scrapping of something that has worked out a little ... Again, the old song, We will destroy the whole world of violence, to the foundation
But here I do not agree. Why ruin? Just change. You are satisfied with the current situation, I am not. I am for change with both hands.
Quote: older
We will destroy the whole world of violence
And in conclusion: the "world of violence" must not be destroyed, it must be destroyed, once and for all, harshly and unconditionally, so that it could never be reborn later.

baltika-18 you are completely right buddy

[rolik]

Quote: baltika-18

. You are satisfied with the current situation, I am not. I am for change with both hands.

Absolutely right. According to the latest sensations, the progressive movement slows down. It feels like a rubber band is attached to the back and it, as it pulls, strengthens its resistance to moving forward. The story goes in stages. In the early 90s and until the 2000s, bandits ruled the ball, now the bureaucratic locusts have replaced, but the next evolution of the state should be social oriented to the country and not the bureaucratic pocket. For this, people who are focused on creation and not grappling are needed. This turning point should someday come, and even better in a peaceful way than by demonstrations and strikes. Because the steam of dissatisfaction with the actions of officials begins to crush. People already express their dissatisfaction with the housing and communal services system, the pricing of energy, gasoline, the cost of products, and the constant increase (and 90% unreasonable) of the increase in prices for everything. And each time the voices sound louder. And if the president does not see this (and it seems that he knows everything perfectly) then they will remind him of this, moreover, in the most radical form. But not swamps, these screamers only care about their skin and about their fees, they absolutely do not care about people and the country. So in this situation, a transition (not scrapping, namely, a transition) to a socially oriented leadership is needed.

[Krsk]

no no i'm not about "we will build our new world" i'm about the possible reorientation of the country from raw materials to industrial ...

PS And by name, yes ...

[Simon]

I am the same for this.

[ziqzaq]

Liberators have destroyed our world and did not think, and the people of Russia, in your opinion, now need to behave quietly - "no matter what happens." As it is not correct in my opinion.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: ziqzaq

Liberators have destroyed our world and did not think, and the people of Russia, in your opinion, now need to behave quietly - "no matter what happens." As it is not correct in my opinion.

If you are commenting, then at least quote the person you are contacting.

[domokl]

A group of new cowboys advertises their services ... Just not there .. Sometimes it's worth looking not only at words, but also at those who speak them ...

[vezunchik]

again step on the same rake

[INTER]

You guys are careful with jerks, otherwise we remember the previous jerks in the form of adjustment, shock therapy ..........

[Civil]

as always, another attempt to transfer the responsibility of each citizen for his country to a structure with emergency powers ..

can stupidly introduce an article in the Criminal Code for an irresponsible attitude towards his life, family and society ?!

[BARKAS]

Many already have immunity to such calls, someone is generally allergic, we still need to come to our senses from the previous reforms, but the fact that a lot needs to be changed, we all agree and we will change it.

[politruk419]

Really. Chance. Maybe. Maybe. Someday. It is desirable. Probably. Perhaps. Not excluded.
Four meetings have already passed. So far, neither an ideology has been developed, nor a jerk strategy has been formulated.
But on the whole, they crowd around the ideological platform of the renewed Motherland, Eurasian integration, spiritual bonds, Orthodoxy, Russian imperial messianism, the revival of the defense industry and resistance to liberalization in the understanding of Medvedev and Dvorkovich. The efficiency of the kpine is low, although they practically do not enter into disputes with each other. Here is the whole Izborsk dialogue in a nutshell.

[ziqzaq]

The president has a unique historical opportunity to stand next to Peter1 and Stalin. To clear the state "from the top" from robbers, and to do it "with little blood" and without losing territory. The situation is ripe for a long time.

[older]

Quote: ziqzaq

The president has a unique historical opportunity to become next to Peter 1, Stalin

You want an example ... Now I will give you a program convenient for everyone ... Tracing paper on which you can hang any ideas ..
So ... To tighten the fight against corruption in all spheres. The state should take on the solution of social issues in the near future. The best of the army, the country's defenses to the proper level. The most important concern of the state is to educate the young generation, patriotism and love for their country, to his people ... It.d. etc.
This club says the same thing ...

[ziqzaq]

The question is not who and what says, the question is whether Putin will commit acts for the good of Russia or will wait for something there. Strong people in the absence of the right circumstances create them.

[older]

Quote: ziqzaq

The question is not who and what says, the question is whether Putin will commit acts for the good of Russia

And what are acts for the good of Russia? There is the good of the country and the good of people ...
Peter 1 the Great did acts for the good of the state, but the population of the Russian Empire under his rule decreased by a third ...
Russian is a great language ... You can speak and .... say nothing ...

[ziqzaq]

Quote: older

And what are acts for the good of Russia? There is the good of the country and the good of people ...

The creation of such a system of distribution of goods in which people who are more useful to society will receive greater benefits. Creating such a mental environment that will educate the young generation in the cultural field of this society. In the USSR, they took care of this, poorly poor. Of course there were certain inertities.

[older]

Quote: ziqzaq

The creation of such a system of distribution of goods in which people who are more useful to society will receive greater benefits. Creating such a mental environment that will educate the young generation in the cultural field of this society

But isn’t it right now? Those who work and earn more receive more ... The owner of the enterprise, who has created a new enterprise with his own intelligence and risks, has given work to many people, of course, lives much better than his employees .... Distribution system between the owner and the employee, in any case, he will give more benefits to the owner .. And if it is not so, capital will simply close the enterprise .. That's all ...
But is not the young generation brought up in the cultural field of this society? Young people want to not just work, but to earn money and is ready to open their own enterprises, to work hard ...
It’s another matter that this generation pretends to our generation .. we had different values, more precisely the values ​​of another society ... However, as an example of my son, I’ll say that when the time came to fight, he, nurtured by this, started a new society without hesitation ...

[ziqzaq]

Quote: older

But isn’t it right now? Those who work and earn more get more.

Do you seriously think that Chubais himself created the country's energy network? You are an adult, look what is happening in the country: Try to take a loan for your ideas. Treasury and crime. Education is a separate issue and very sad. Maybe it's time to move away from all isms and look back? Mlyn was killed by a crime boss - news for the whole country is shown on TV. Do you seriously think that his criminal business empire is good for the country? Russian classics were removed from the school curriculum. Do you think this is just happening. If you lived under commies, you must remember that they at least crushed crime.

[Manager]

Quote: older

Peter 1 the Great did acts for the good of the state, but the population of the Russian Empire under his rule decreased by a third ...
Russian is a great language ... You can speak and .... say nothing ...

So we have the whole story. The people, the country, the government are 3 absolutely autonomous biospheres. The government wanted to bend the people and ruin the country, they did it in the 90X. Tired of the people enduring rudeness - February 1917 came. The government wanted to raise the country - Putin came in 2000 (like Stalin in 1934).
But now it remains to hope that Putin would not like Peter 1 to raise the country while reducing the population by a third.

[Simon]

It is not necessary to cut, but it is necessary to plant. Although, I would have shot all such stools.

[Kaa]

Quote: older

Peter the Great did acts for the good of the state, but the population of the Russian Empire under his rule decreased by a third

And EBN "for the good of the peoples of Russia" shot the White House and brewed a booze in Chechnya ...

[domokl]

Quote: ziqzaq

will Putin commit acts for the good of Russia

If we cast aside poor pensioners, a poor village, satellite cities of deceased industrial enterprises and much more, Putin has already done a lot for the good of Russia .. We are respected in the world, we can resist even the USA .. Only grandmothers-pensioners will not die of hunger. ..

[ziqzaq]

Do you wish death for our mothers, fathers, grandfathers, grandmothers? I really hope that I just did not understand you.

[older]

Quote: ziqzaq

You wish death to our mothers, fathers, grandfathers, grandmothers

He very figuratively showed the idea that I have already expressed ... There are already blessings of Russia from Putin and they are really tangible, but there are a lot of unresolved HUMAN problems ...

[ziqzaq]

Quote: older

He very figuratively showed the idea that I have already expressed ... There are already blessings of Russia from Putin and they are really tangible, but there are a lot of unresolved HUMAN problems ...

Thanks a lot older

[spok]

Quote: older

The blessing of Russia from Putin already exists and they are really tangible

come down from heaven and I think you will understand that it doesn’t smell good here
Fortunately, every day I see ruined, plundered garrisons, a mountain of homeless people in a garbage dump and some children dressed as

[Simon]

These grandmothers pensioners survived during the turbulent times of the war and famine of the 90s, when they paid a miserable pension and it would be nice to learn from them how to survive in difficult times for Russia.

[DeerIvanovich]

Well, if he fulfills the main task for today: he replaces the ruling elite, then, in principle, all these problems can be solved. and judging by how things are going: both the rearrangements of their people and the beginning of putting personnel reserves into work ...
however, it’s too early to draw conclusions ... a strategy is a strategy, because you also need to take into account the enemy, both external and internal, who strives to put sticks in wheels

[spok]

Quote: domokl

Only grandmother-pensioners will not die of hunger ...

did not understand this sarcasm or wish to your parents

Quote: domokl

and much more, Putin has already done a lot for the good of Russia .. We are respected in the world, we can resist even the USA ..

so it’s interesting, but where do you live? it seems to me that not in Russia but somewhere very far

[Cadets]

Quote: ziqzaq

The question is not who says what

It's not even about talking. The main thing is that the need has long been ripe for a unification of patriotic forces, regardless of patriarchal affiliation, and the President will have to listen to a single voice, since the majority of the electorate is nevertheless patriotic, and people who trust him stand behind each member of the Izborsk Club.

[spok]

Quote: ziqzaq

The question is not who and what says, the question is whether Putin will commit acts for the good of Russia or will wait for something there. Strong people in the absence of the right circumstances create them.

and he creates them
Putin's Rogozin complained about Serdyukov's helicopter carriers, the purchase of which Putin justified: there is simply no fuel for them in Russia. An Interfax source in the Russian military-industrial complex previously reported that helicopter carriers of this type require about 50 types of various fuels and lubricants of European production. Prediction: Mistral will be torment for sailors and will soon rust in a landfill
The first deputy chairman of the military-industrial complex Ivan Kharchenko directly called the initiative to purchase these ships "absurd". According to him, the decision caused significant damage to the industry and the state.

[Cpa]

Understand that the mistral is a trophy and will go under the knife, our ships need new radio-electronic components. We will stupidly compile them until skolkovo gave birth to anything.

[Z.A.M.]

older

Quote: older

Now I will give you a program convenient for everyone ... Tracing paper on which you can hang any ideas ..
So ... To tighten the fight against corruption in all spheres. The state should take on the solution of social issues in the near future. The best of the army, the country's defenses to the proper level. The most important concern of the state is to educate the young generation, patriotism and love for their country, to his people ... It.d. etc.

This is you Putin, for 14 years, in short, duplicated?

Quote: older

This club says the same thing ...

This club, consider, has just appeared. Those who advocate Putin will not always be tempted to ask - but who else but CAM and his team? Here is Putin’s new cabinet, just work ... for the good of the country.
An interesting question is what will be Putin’s reaction to this club and its proposals. It is advisable not like Kvachkova. But the club is a whole organization.
"The near future, they believe, should show whether Putin has accepted the outstretched hand or all of his patriotic pro-imperial rhetoric is nothing more than a populist maneuver."
So let's see ... once again

[Simon]

Very good, I support you with a plus.

[nickname 1 and 2]

ziqzaq,

Wow! Cool! And how? By hanging or gulag?

[ziqzaq]

What are you talking about?

[Kaa]

Quote: ziqzaq

What are you talking about?

And this is how he often happens - flood, troll ...

[domokl]

Quote: nick 1 and 2

Wow! Cool! And how? By hanging or gulag?

We will morally educate aligarchs to work for so .. The rest of the people

[Manager]

Quote: ziqzaq

The president has a unique historical opportunity to become next to Peter1, Stalin.

This is what you correctly noticed. I think so. Our president has already become quite influential and if the rumors are true then more than a wealthy person. It remains to go down in history as a great patriot. Such a chance is given to few people. I think he will not miss it.

[JonnyT]

Many good ideas of course, but hard to believe! Putin wants to create a more reliable support for himself !!! Create "correct" liberals who think and suffer not for the money of the State Department, but about Russia!

On the other hand, the creation of a club will not lead to a change in vector; this measure is rather needed as an ideological weapon. Officials both stole and will steal and sell! To change the vector you need cleanings, moreover large-scale ones and mainly in the upper layers!

[SASCHAmIXEEW]

It is necessary to introduce a penalty for failure to turn up for elections and a criminal offense for falsification and for illegal decisions of the court, to drive the judges, and it is high time for the judges to choose.! And the Izborsk Club, when it becomes known to all of RUSSIA, is an alternative government with President Ivashov and the whole of RUSSIA, I’m more than sure that they will vote for them !!! But for now, Putin needs to expel all onists from the government !!!!! And with dual citizenship won out of power !!!!

[JonnyT]

Eco has embarrassed you ...... that you can’t forget the presidential election, or suffer the fate of rabid sluts ??? This is somehow not serious! The court is humane, the elections are fair! But about the liquidationists you are right !!! As they have settled since 1917, parasites still sit. Stalin crushed, crushed (

[nickname 1 and 2]

Quote: JonnyT

To change the vector you need cleanings, moreover large-scale ones and mainly in the upper layers!

Cleaning? To expel or plant? Unemployed. The prisons are full.

How many of them are those of which: large-scale purges? And how to sort them?
One comb?

Suicide for Putin, that's what you offer!

[JonnyT]

Suicide??? And what do you think is better to let this gop company go crazy with fat ???? Do not be surprised when you live in zasr @ .. oh terrain, work for food under the supervision of some kind of Euro-Anglo scum, like a zachuhonny serf! They will sell us, so that they themselves live in a chocolode !!!!!

[spok]

Quote: JonnyT

Putin wants to create a more reliable support for himself !!! Create "correct" liberals who think and suffer not for the money of the State Department, but about Russia!

Yes, where do you all live? Go down from heaven to earth Putin already in the third term and all he wants
maybe you need to lift your eyelids

[Frigate]

Such personalities as: “Eurasians” Alexander Dugin and Valery Korovin, economist, publicist Mikhail Khazin, ideological leader of the public organization “Trade Union of Russian Citizens” Nikolai Starikov can fully introduce a person to the EDUCATION in the PORTABLE sense

[older]

Quote: Frigate

Such personalities as: “Eurasians” Alexander Dugin and Valery Korovin, economist, publicist Mikhail Khazin, ideological leader of the public organization “Trade Union of Russian Citizens” Nikolai Starikov can fully introduce a person to the EDUCATION in the PORTABLE sense

Here is what I wrote in the previous comments ... Calculation of the unwillingness of the majority to find out what and how ... Blind faith in the printed word ...

[Frigate]

Quote: older

Here is what I wrote in the previous comments ... Calculation of the unwillingness of the majority to find out what and how ... Blind faith in the printed word ...

Well, at least we’d give a plus if we talk about one thing)))
In general, yes, regular shepherds advertising their ideas to certain groups of people. They say everything that is appropriate to keep a person under control, but not something that would allow everyone to leave the deep cave of ignorance

[domokl]

Quote: older

..Calculating the majority’s reluctance to find out what and how ... Blind faith in the printed word

Sometimes it’s useful to see what is written, but also by whom it is written ...

[older]

Quote: domokl

Sometimes it’s useful to see what is written, but also by whom.

Somewhere I already heard it ... But we all speak well, but they do it completely differently ..

[dirty trick]

although among the listed club members there are people whom I really respect - the idea itself is not very productive. it's about how "create a commission to consider the increased number of commissions".

[Apollo]

Good morning everybody!

quote - “Highlight”, a sign of the club that distinguishes it from other Russian socio-political entities, is that first в modern Russian history unification took place on a common platform of “white”, promonarchic and “red”, pro-Soviet imperials-statesmen. The catalyst for the unification was the reaction to the ongoing political crisis in Russia, to the belolentochnoe comprador movement.

Those who claim that the unification of socio-political associations in Russia is impossible is deeply mistaken. The creation of the above club is vivid evidence of this.

more...
quote-According to some observers, this next run “Kremlin project” designed to bring together the most dangerous critics of the government and give them the opportunity to “blow off the whistle”

citation-Other experts also connect the establishment of the Izborsk club with the Kremlin’s initiative, but with the significant difference that the Izborsk club, as conceived by the president, should play a role a tool clean from western influence and corruption

in my opinion neither one nor the other
quote-The reaction of the authorities and Putin personally to the activities of the Izborsk club unknown yet.

Well, sooner or later VV Putin will have to speak out on this subject, it’s impossible to ignore it for a long time.

I would like to state my point of view regarding the club’s emblem. if it’s a consolidating organization, but what about the Muslims, Buddhists of Russia, of whom there are a lot of them in Russia, and where there are representatives from these communities. I’m not talking about the elders anymore. I’d also have to invite them. Then one can truly talk about a state, a religious and supranational organization that would put the main and strategic goal is to do everything to create a strong and prosperous Russia.

[Frigate]

Handsome, Apollon

[aksakal]

Quote: Apollon

I would like to state my point of view regarding the club’s emblem. if it’s a consolidating organization, but what about the Muslims, Buddhists of Russia, of whom there are a lot of them in Russia, and where there are representatives from these communities. I’m not talking about the elders anymore. in fact, it will be possible to talk about a state, a religious and supranational organization that would set the main and strategic goal - to do everything to create a strong and prosperous Russia.

- I did not see the very concession in Russia here - right-wing Christians. There are many Muslims and Buddhists, of course, but most of all there are Orthodox Christians in Russia. Did you knowingly not mention it? If complementing this socio-political club (although I am opposed, religions should not be in politics, they have a different function), then complement with all the largest religions.

[Jurkovs]

There was still no ideological horse lying around, and you are already drawing an emblem. If you carefully read their ideological attitudes toward building a new type of empire, then the double-headed eagle is their emblem.

[Jurkovs]

The existence of a bipartisan system in the United States has long been a fairy tale for children. It has long been obvious that in the United States there is a kind of supra-party structure that determines the vector of action of both parties, which affects the effectiveness of US actions. Our elites prefer to fight each other to the last drop of blood, weakening Russia. In essence, the Izborsk Club project is the inculcation of the Anglo-American way of governing the country on Russian soil in order to build another Russian empire. I agree with one of Prokhanov’s main messages: the Russian people, because of their spread over a vast territory, simply cannot help but live in an imperial state. Otherwise, it will simply disappear.

[ziqzaq]

In my opinion, the Izborsk club is an attempt to consolidate society, to unite it against liberal ghouls. The fact that such different people have gathered in the Izborsk club already speaks volumes. Our fathers and grandfathers at one time adequately answered fascism, but what will we do for our children? Is it about ... any homeland for all Chubais? The state is born in the head, and money is the measure of labor, like roulette or columbus, and not the goal of life.

[SASCHAmIXEEW]

10000 ++++++++++++++++++ !!

[rennim]

In their opinion, a critical amount of comprador-liberal scum has accumulated at the levers of government of the country, and the media are simply captured by them. Moreover, the Izborsk club members believe that liberalism is spiritually closer to the country's leadership. The near future, they believe, should show whether Putin has accepted the outstretched hand or all of his patriotic pro-imperial rhetoric is nothing more than a populist maneuver. At the same time, in the conditions of the developing political crisis in the country, the growing efforts of the West to annihilate the Russian state, the president may have no alternative but to rely on the intellectual forces of the Izborsk Club.

There is only one way out ... the complete resignation of the powers of the current government and the holding of truly honest elections .... Enough ... the limit of the current government has been exhausted ... It turned out to be incapable of constructive work. Paganism and the flow of corruption got enough ... And this is a sign of weak and weak-willed power, unable to lead the country out of the crisis. All deadlines are overdue ... The same Serdyukov is free ... Chubais is free ... and everyone else too ... ENOUGH !!!

[ziqzaq]

Totally agree with you.

[Krsk]

And as an alternative to the "regime" ... ???

[ziqzaq]

Any state is a "regime", the question is for what.

[Krsk]

Quote: ziqzaq

Totally agree with you.

Let them go ... And who will come ??? At the crossing of horses do not change ...

[Natalia]

Well, I would not have become so categorical in assessing the current government. This power, let's call it the Putin Era, nevertheless has achieved quite significant successes from 2001-2013, and the power is also working on mistakes (Serdyukov resigned, Shoigu came). I think no one will deny the fact that Russia has risen from its knees, and today it is present everywhere (on earth, in the oceans, and in the air). And all this was achieved by the efforts of the current government .... and the era of Putin is not over yet. (Thank God)

[SEM]

I agree with every word, Natalya +, I have to work on the time to reorganize. I want to steadily go forward already and this is slow, but it goes with work on the bugs of course.

[baltika-18]

Quote: Natalia

. and the era of Putin is not over yet.

She is close to completion Natasha. I offer a bet, just remember. I will give him a maximum of 4 years, 2015-2016. Check it out?

[Kaa]

Quote: rennim

.And this is a sign of weak and weak-willed authorities unable to lead the country out of the crisis.

Probably you for the presidency? Or a germ-fired one? We don’t get such goodness for nothing, and even more so, for the money that "hamsters" will hide by their cheeks.

[rennim]

No .... I'm a Soviet patriot !!!

[DPN]

This club brought together normal people, both white and red, who want to unite the Russian people. Unlike Svanidze and Pivovarov, who very often flicker on the TV screen and sow enmity between people.

[SASCHAmIXEEW]

They flash by the fact that the media, TV are in the hands of the enemies of RUSSIA and education is ruined for the same, they make us "Ivanov do not remember kinship!" And in the club there are worthy, healthy people, patriots of RUSSIA !! It's very interesting how the authorities will react! We see how the patriot Kvachkova reacted !!

[DPN]

Kvachkov, this power seems to avenge the unsinkable Chubais,

[SASCHAmIXEEW]

Probably!!

[Natalia]

Good morning everyone!
To create such a mechanism that would form the correct public opinion on the activities of various organizations paid from overseas (or Europe).
In particular, first of all, such "respected" gentlemen as Navalny, Udaltsov ... should not be allowed to power, whose task is to destabilize the situation in Russia to the level of revolution for Western dates, in order to multiply its influence on the world stage by zero.
And if this club is one of those who will fight against this infection, it’s only for.

[w.ebdo.g]

Natalia, apparently, this club will fight with the likes of bulk.
apparently the time has come to gather, concentrate the still "smeared" force under one specific wing. so that there is a specific trend in the direction of which it is worth moving and navigating. so that there is a front that coordinates the actions.
and then the liberals of these fronts - more than enough, literally in all directions and segments of the population.
and the defenders of the fatherland did not have such a front. only miserable crafts instead of a specific case.
Now that quite popular people have begun to confront the system that the invaders created, we can say that the real movement has finally begun ....
you only need to carefully look to see if this is a fake of the same invaders in order to unite the patriots and direct them along a false and useless path.
various options should be considered.

I think so.

[Natalia]

Let's hope it's not fake ...

[ziqzaq]

So the task of this club is to provide the president, who is still believed, an alternative to the liberals. Try to combine the efforts of people and direct them towards the construction of a truly independent and industrial country.

[Krsk]

Sales rotten corrupt and so on. etc. That the current is not said ... The truth is in each of these words, only the truth is different for everyone, for example, it is unlikely that I and Prokhorov have or ... (According to the Forbes list) the truth is the same. I see from Siberia how the country changes, and let's say in Moscow white ribbons ... I'm talking about the fact that we all have HERE claims ... But we all need to understand Russia was strong sobornost and therefore "dig out" from where we are " kindly "our deadly" friends "pushed over the whole world for 10 years.

[sergeybulkin]

As is knownIzborsk Club was established in September 2012
That's great! Happiness then fell, but I did not snout with my ear, I heard for the first time!
An unusually representative composition of the participants draws attention.
Yes, the composition is representative, all excommunicated from the feeder have gathered.
a new type of elite is needed that has a national consciousness
Yes, the new elite is just not enough for us! Especially the one that will broadcast from the high stands, the people who are bending from poverty, how to work hard for seven thousand a month, and feed three children with this money!
It is interesting besides an empty chatter these are able to do something?
We must not talk, but build factories, roads, they want to re-educate us, we need to re-educate them - every shovel and at least clean the snow in the yard.

[Atlon]

Jerking is definitely evil! And who will make the leap? Anyone who writes here is ready for a "Komsomol" voucher, for the "construction of the century"? That's it! Talk all a lot! Break down, destroy (to the ground and then). Only now "then", somehow it does not work. Everyone is waiting for someone to do them. Whether Putin, Navalny, Nemtsov, Yavlinsky ... But there is no one to do that! All those calling for "jerks" have enough strength and imagination only for the first stage (for destruction). And then ... This again, someone will "rush", and then the people for decades to disentangle! No, your ass jerks. Slowly, progressively and without shocks! Let us live normally and calmly! TIRED! The 90s were enough for me!

[dmb]

In the post above, you gave a completely objective description of capitalism. Judging by it, you are not delighted with him (well, you are not a fan of the devil you mentioned). So you still need to change. The first question is, what for? The second is natural, how? As in the joke "slow and sad"? Yes, someone is against. Only neither you, nor I, nor the entire Izborsk club, with all its regalia, know such methods. For, as soon as the question arises of confiscating property illegally confiscated from the people by the capitalist (and he will inevitably rise), the capitalist will display all those "good features" that you quite rightly endowed him with, with the accompanying armed detachments of "LukOil" and RusHydro. If you see other options for the development of events, I am ready to discuss them.

[Atlon]

Quote: dmb

So you still need to change. The first question, on what? The second is naturally how?

And I have no answer. As well as yours. And if not, don't fucking arrange jerks! Before jumping, you need to see where you are going to land! Otherwise, it can turn out as usual: "what they fought for" and got into it ...
And about the capitalists ... I, if you like, one of them. I just don’t have hired power. I work for myself and exploit myself. Something like that.

[ziqzaq]

Quote: Atlon

And I have no answer. As well as yours. And if not, don't fucking arrange jerks! Before jumping, you need to see where you are going to land! Otherwise, it can turn out as usual: "what they fought for" and got into it ...
And about the capitalists ... I, if you like, one of them. I just don’t have hired power. I work for myself and exploit myself. Something like that.

In order to do something, you must first realize the need for change. For this, they created the Izborsk Club. Definitely communism in the furnace. Why is the fight against invaders and robbers perceived as a return commie?

[Atlon]

Quote: ziqzaq

In order to do something, you must first realize the need for change.

That's it! And I don't see such a need! Or rather, not so, changes are coming, and acceleration to nothing. "If you hurry, you will make people laugh."

[V. Salama]

Quote: ziqzaq

Why is the fight against invaders and robbers perceived as a return commie?

Because the invaders and robbers are afraid of their return and organize appropriate propaganda. People hawala everything, people at school did not study well, and slander is a powerful thing. According to the statements of, in particular, V. Pozner, E. Radzinsky, it can be judged that for them any meanness is moral and not a crime (according to Radzinsky - even shed blood), just to prevent their return.

[dmb]

Why did you decide for me that there is no answer. The first question is, change to socialism. You and I do not have an answer how to do this so that everyone is happy: you and I, and Abramovich, and even Mr. Zigzag, who joined our discussion, who knows only the "furnace" of all the proposals, which reminds who ended his days in it, Adolf Aloizovich. Again, I don't quite understand. If you are "one of them", then to whom are all those epithets that you awarded the capitalist in the previous post addressed to, and does this mean that you are proud of such self-esteem? If so, then what kind of changes can we talk about, and what these changes should be. And let's not be cunning, the capitalist who does not use hired labor is not such.

[ziqzaq]

Dear dmb, forgive me my bone syllable. But no need to hang tags. When there are no arguments go to the individual. Your comparison with Hitler is clearly not appropriate. And please disclose your understanding of Socialism. The Reich statesman you mentioned was also, in general, a socialist.

[dmb]

You see (taking into account the firebox, I can’t answer you with respect so far). The arguments that were the reason for the discussion by me are stated above, I do not see any reason to repeat them. I do not consider myself smarter than Lenin, and therefore my understanding of socialism in the theoretical part coincides with it. Of course, the practical application of ML needs to be adjusted, and mind you, it has been adjusted throughout the existence of the socialist state. You will not deny that the economic and social relations of the first and last period of the Soviet government, as they say in Odessa, are two big differences. Let us not forget that all previous economic formations existed for periods measured in centuries and even at the end of their existence did not always get rid of the flaws of previous systems. (Well, you will not argue that the current slavery is a progressive phenomenon, if you do not argue from the point of view of the slave owner). Socialism, as a state system, has existed and exists for less than 100 years, and therefore makes mistakes in its development, as any system before it did. And these errors are used by the old system, which naturally does not want to give its own without a fight. So you recommended setting the Communists in the furnace. Tell me, personally, why didn’t they please you? I am talking about the Communists, to whom neither Gorbachev nor Zyuganov can not relate. They are only party members. By the way, I can open a terrible secret, the current President was also a member of this party. Are we in the furnace too? The question is, who will we leave? Non-partisan at that time Zhirinovsky. I can congratulate you. So here I am about the Communists. List the claims against them that were reflected personally on you or your loved ones in the post-war period.

[ziqzaq]

Quote: dmb

So here I am about the Communists. List the claims against them that reflected personally on you or your loved ones in the post-war period

The question is not about me personally, but about the structure of the state. Both Gorbachev and Chubais and Yeltsin and Stalin are former communists. And how to distinguish this real communist or not? Again on the same rake suggest stepping on? 70 years of stability, and then what? The history of the reverse does not have.

Quote: dmb

Socialism, as a state system, has existed and exists for less than 100 years, and therefore makes mistakes in its development, as any system did before it

There was talk about this, everything is changing and socialism needs changes.

[dmb]

Well, thank God, otherwise I thought that following the example of some especially gifted individuals on the forum, you will find a banker in your family, whom the "swear commies" have deprived of an honestly earned bank. If you personally have no complaints about the communists, I would like to know what exactly the state system did not suit you, and why it had to be broken and brought to its present state. By the way, does it suit you? Now about the list you gave. As I wrote above, with the exception of Stalin, whom you called a former communist apparently in a hurry or under the influence of Mr. Starikov, (which is even worse) the rest of the subjects were never communists. Opportunists and careerists? Yes, absolutely. Now, with regard to the "rake". I have to upset you, but the change of economic formations is an objective historical process, which you cannot cancel with ridiculous suggestions about the furnace (by the way, except for the Nazis, no one called for this), nor more gifted individuals like President Putin. They will try to slow down, but not cancel. And this will happen much faster than we all think, because Russia has not seen such a number of unprincipled mediocrities that we have in power today, even during the time of the last tsar-father. And the fact that socialism will be different, I have no doubts, although the basic values ​​will definitely remain

[ziqzaq]

Quote: dmb

As I wrote above, with the exception of Stalin, whom you apparently called the former communist in a hurry

Stalin, to my great regret, died, so the "former" communist
the rest of the riffraff I mentioned renounced communism, therefore, also "former". It is good to write about economic formations on paper and to interpret at the department, but in real life .... Individuals make history (this is one of the greats said). Here are two antagonist personalities for analysis: the Great Stalin and 3,14daras Gorbachev. Both communists but what different results. If communism as a theoretical model of society produces such opposite results, then from scientific theory it degenerates into a banal farce and demagoguery. That is why I said that communism "should be sent to the furnace of history" (as a theoretical model of society), but this does not in any way mean that it (communism) cannot be used in the development of a new model. The Izborsk club seems to be doing this and there are communists among its members. If it will be easier for you to agree to name the new theory "neo-communism", it does not matter to me what the state structure will be called if it will be profitable, interesting and honorable for every citizen to become smarter, more honest and work for the good of society. Do you remember how the elections of people's deputies were held in the USSR? They went to vote in order to drink beer on the cheap, and the results did not depend on the vote, all posts were appointed by the CPSU. While the great Man (Stalin) was at the helm, the system worked as it should, and then?

[dmb]

Well, do not get out about the firebox. Not solid right. I have the impression that you rush to answer without reading the comment and completely without linking it to the previous dialogue. I gave Gorbachev and others an assessment; comparing them with Stalin is utter nonsense. With the same success, we can compare, say, Churchill and Nicholas No. 2. Historically, they are in a closer connection, only one has made efforts to the prosperity of the empire, and the other to its collapse. This does not say at all that capitalism is less progressive than feudalism. What will be called the system that will come to replace capitalism, it really does not matter, it is important that the principles of its existence will be those that were previously called developed socialism. As a matter of fact, you cannot offer anything else, as it turns out. The club you mentioned does not offer this either. As for your last passage, of course, now everything is much simpler, whether you go to the polls or not, basically nobody cares. The Duma elections have shown this quite clearly. I suggest you name at least one deputy from EP for whom you would vote. I mean, not the ordinary masses who decide on the go-ahead for the head of the faction, but those who are constantly spinning in politics and are leading this faction. And then decide whether our people are so stupid to vote for these snouts.

[ziqzaq]

Quote: dmb

Well, do not get out about the firebox.

And do not expect.

Quote: dmb

With the same success can be compared to say Churchill and Nicholas No. 2

Have mercy, sir, are they here to do with? We view communism as a cosmogonic theory. And there is no need to evade the answer. The problem with communism is that it does not imply a "feedback" relationship with society, although it acts as a subject in relation to an object (society). In China, after the collapse of the USSR, the comrades drew conclusions and now the higher party apparatus changes every 7 (in my opinion) years. Although this is also not a solution to the problem.

Quote: dmb

The Duma elections have shown this quite clearly. I suggest you name at least one deputy from EP for whom you would vote

Do not get personal, speak essentially, and I live in Kazakhstan, so I certainly won’t be able to vote. For no one ....
Dear dbm. To my regret, we communicate a little on different planes. You conduct a positional dialogue, and I try to be constructive.
Apparently you can’t teach me anything, but it's a pity ..... And the following remark is on the trail:
at the dawn of Christianity (when it was still banned) one of the Romans said such wise words:
"Prohibitions and persecutions cannot kill an idea, because real followers will rally around it, and they will lead people. To kill an idea, you need to give it complete freedom and fill it with gold, then temporary workers, careerists will gather around this idea and they will distort the idea itself. that it will not be viable. " What actually happened to your communism. As practice has shown, there are not so many altruists in society. Good luck to you.

[V. Salama]

Quote: ziqzaq

The problem with communism is that it does not imply a "feedback" relationship with society,

It is not true (there is a definition of communism), but in the USSR it was assumed that the Soviet power is the power of the Soviets, power belongs to the people, but in most cases it is declarative. There were objective reasons for this - "the country is a military camp", a rigid system of centralized control. Stalin tried to change - he did not have time. And power (in our case, political) is the basis of all governance, and hence politics.

Quote: ziqzaq

although it acts as a subject in relation to the object (society).

That is, in theory in the USSR, the people were both the subject and the object of control at the same time and they had no need to contact themselves ("servants of the people" were elected upstairs) But there was also feedback, the authorities were obliged to respond to any criticism or remark addressed to it and reacted (often from a corporate interest perspective). but this is a long topic.

[V. Salama]

Quote: ziqzaq

While the great Man (Stalin) was at the helm, the system worked as it should, and then?

then where does it

Quote: ziqzaq

communism as a theoretical model of society gives so opposite results, then from a scientific theory it degenerates into a banal farce and demagogy

not logical. This only speaks of the importance of the governance process, which is the essence of politics, and also confirms the position of the theory of Marxism-Leninism that the longest process of the three elements of the base in building communism is the formation of a person with an appropriate worldview. Nikita made a mistake here contrary to theory, saying that we’ll build it in twenty years, nothing to do ... Imagine the first time we’re doing a difficult thing, but we don’t follow the drawings, we ignore science .... well, etc.

[ziqzaq]

Quote: dmb

why it was necessary to break it and bring it into its current state.

No need to fantasize, you start to adjust the facts, and this is not ethical.
I did not say that it was necessary to break, and even more so, lead to today's mess.

[V. Salama]

Quote: ziqzaq

And how to distinguish a real communist or not?

There is no problem, a communist differs from a member of the Communist Party as well as a righteous person from a preacher. There are nuances here - a righteous person can be an adherent of sectarian teachings. Consequently, the deeds and words of the communist must correspond to the "ideal" - ideology, the theoretical consciousness of the class whose interest he follows.

[V. Salama]

Quote: ziqzaq

... and socialism needs change.

In order to change something, it is necessary to determine the necessity based on the analysis. Arguments like "tried it - it didn't work, so it's impossible" are untenable.
Is socialism our goal or means of increasing the well-being of working people? And this is both a goal and a means and, therefore, a result (as a realized goal). Therefore, two analyzes are needed.
The goal, in the structure of activity, must correspond to the needs (which we often do not realize), to flow out of them, and the means to achieve the goal should be proportionate to it at least in terms of the properties of necessity and sufficiency (lack of funds always leads to an appropriate degree of failure to achieve the goal). In practice, we managed to provide tasks even with a declarative resource. What results are we talking about?
In short, there are many ways of voluntarily or unconsciously distorting activity (a specific form of a person’s attitude to the surrounding reality by its appropriate transformation) and not obtaining the required results. Socialism wasn’t built because it wasn’t built (it is necessary not only to believe in the goal, but also to realize it correctly), plus the harmful effect of a combination of external factors, internal social parasites and other reasons, and we should talk about them.

[V. Salama]

Quote: ziqzaq

The Reich statesman you mentioned was also, in general, a socialist.

National Socialist, who set the goal of the fight against communism.

[Chamber No. 6]

For the first time in modern Russian history, a union took place on a common platform of “whites,” pro-monarchist and “red,” pro-Soviet imperial statesmen. The catalyst for the association was a reaction to the ongoing political crisis in Russia, to the white tape movement of a comprador style.

Lord Help us sinners! Teach us and give us strength to survive!

Article - an unambiguous "+" !!!

[unclevad]

Must see. Jerking is not to my liking. Usually after a jerk there is a lull to catch a breath. The stronger the jerk, the longer the lull. Prokhanov is an interesting man. I listen to his speeches with attention. The initiative is sound.

[unclevad]

PS: I liked the logo.

[ziqzaq]

Quote: unclevad

Jerking is not to my liking.

When in a criminal swamp up his throat - only a jerk will save. Liberasti-ghouls will not give up their positions. Either Putin removes them without big shocks, or in a few years there will be a social explosion, and who will take advantage of this explosion? Ideal for the country first. Discontent in society is growing and this is a fact. After all, Putin is a Russian officer, isn't he? I hope the word honor is familiar to him.

[V. Salama]

Quote: ziqzaq

Ideal for the country first.

Yes, but "Liberast-ghouls will not surrender their positions," power is not voluntarily surrendered (although there was a precedent in ancient times, I’m not talking about EBN — not that case). And "the president is not power, it is a screen for power. Power is something that is not subject to rotation." There is such a concept of "political elite", which implements real policy in the following meanings: "a balance on the brink of the possible in protecting the poor and the rich from each other." In short, you logically lead to the need for a social revolution and its possibilities, the "limit" for which "we have exhausted". So they are trying to convince us.

Quote: ziqzaq

and who will take advantage of this explosion?

Anyone, judging by our country. According to Lenin: "an illiterate person is always outside politics, as a subject and always in politics, as a means." We can draw conclusions ...

[Byordovvv1]

Respected and authoritative people in the "Izborsk club" Will the president not listen to the voice of reason and shake off obvious hangers-on, talkers, and just traitors to Russia!

[spok]

and who the president is it really a patriot?

[corwet]

When morality is fundamental in the laws of a country, it becomes unprofitable to lie, steal, rob, kill. Then officials and oligarchs involuntarily forced to be within the permissible limits. We need to unite everywhere and force our officials to enforce popular laws. While laws support the predatory attitude towards their country, it is unprofitable in our country to be honest and moral!

[Kaa]

Quote: korwet

While laws support the predatory attitude towards their country, it is unprofitable in our country to be honest and moral!

And you wouldn’t forget about the recent past ...

[Andrey57]

All power in the country belongs to the state, which is consistently pursuing a course towards building a completely independent, self-sufficient economy based solely on its own resources with minimal imports.

Having ousted the national bourgeoisie from the economic and political spheres, the state assumed the exclusive role of the formation and development of the nation, and the distribution of national incomes.

The country has no external debts. All foreign trade is in state monopoly. At the same time, exports consistently exceed imports, which makes it possible to make large investments in industry and agriculture, without resorting to foreign loans.

Instead of foreign capital, the state attracts foreign (European) specialists who receive a good salary and help establish advanced, high-tech industries, transport and communication infrastructure.

The state pursues a tough protectionist policy, supporting domestic producers (by introducing high import duties and at the same time reducing export duties).

The national currency is completely stable.

The country has established modern telegraph communication, railway communication, river transport.

Thanks to state support, the country is experiencing a powerful economic upswing, and new production facilities are being built for the steel, textile, paper, printing, and shipbuilding industries.

Irrigation work, construction of dams and canals, new bridges and roads contribute to the rise of agricultural production.

Illiteracy is completely defeated in the country - almost the entire population of the country can read and write.

Free education (universal compulsory primary education), free medicine.

98% of the country’s territory is public property: the state provides peasants with land for unlimited use for a nominal rent in exchange for an obligation to cultivate these plots without the right to sell.

Along with private agricultural producers there are large state agricultural and livestock farms - “estates of the Motherland”.

The country has set a price ceiling for basic food products.
This is the only country on the continent that does not know poverty, hunger, corruption.
Virtually no crime.
All of the country's income goes to industrialization, agricultural support, the development of the social sphere and the modernization of the army. The country lacks commercial intermediaries, speculators, parasitic classes and layers.,

All this was done by the 1864 year in the now forgotten country of God - in Paraguay, it was done in about the same period in which our country - the USSR was destroyed, and then Paraguay was killed, only a little less than 1,4ty are left from the population of 200 million people., of which only 28tys. men and boys, including infants.
http://cuamckuykot.ru/for-a-half-century-to-yugoslavia-iraq-8514.html

[SASCHAmIXEEW]

Very interesting information! It is necessary to get acquainted in more detail !!!

[Slevinst]

Very interesting proposals, I’m not a politician, but I think our government needs to take a lot wisely but weapons

[Farvil]

Here is a ready-made government capable of restoring and creating a modern economy and also creating a competent system of state governance. But the current government sees them as a threat to its existence and I'm afraid it will begin to destroy them as its enemies.

[skeptic]

Quote: korwet

When morality is fundamental in the laws of a country, it becomes unprofitable to lie, steal, rob, kill. Then officials and oligarchs involuntarily forced to be within the permissible limits. We need to unite everywhere and force our officials to enforce popular laws. While laws support the predatory attitude towards their country, it is unprofitable in our country to be honest and moral!

The National Council of the whole of Russia - this can become that real, historically legitimate support to Putin in transforming the country. In the Council, representatives of all major spiritual concessions must be involved, in addition to public and national leaders (for the development of universal moral standards in business, relationships in an interethnic environment, followed by legislative consolidation of all decisions that are binding on all citizens, without exception, Russia). All of the above will be recognized worldwide as legal, as will reflect the common interests of the peoples of all of Russia.

[gorozhanin]

It is almost impossible to get out of the chaos of the phase crisis into which the World will inevitably plunge.
There is only one lever (which is still a conditionally frail reed) - this is Great Russia, or, if you want the Eurasian Union.

It is clear that all sorts of iPod fans with their "open governments" from liberal "effective managers" can only lead to complete collapse and collapse.

And the "Izborsk Club" or the Council of Wise Men, in the composition that is listed in the article (and here it is important that the composition is not disfigured by a couple of three Rodzians) could serve as a good support for the future Leader (so far, in reality, only Putin can serve them) and serve grain of the very "New oprichina".

I fully support Izborsk Club. I respect these people.

[skeptic]

lat. socius - comrade, companion, Greek. demos - people. Words are synonyms in different languages, have a common, original meaning, but later perverted. Like the water cycle in nature - "Izborsk Club" wants to return power to the sources of decency, patriotism in relation to the people and our Motherland. And God give them wisdom, not to blab an idea.

[Isk1984]

You know guys, if Vladimir Vladimirovich wanted to do everything for the good of the country, this is the situation we all live in the age of information, that is, as the saying goes, bad boyars will not hide everything, and so here is a simple example if you are really sick and worried about your country, even briefly heard about the Khabarov case, I'll crack the table with a fist, but figure it out, punish anyone, but in the end it turns out that even in this simple case he cannot put everything to his own business, or it’s also clear that Serdyukov was screwed, why didn’t he bunk, why his associate was house arrest in an elite apartment .... I have a lot of why and I don’t believe ... that in 12 years it was impossible to turn everything upside down, many say there is no need to wait for changes, what to expect, many industries have ceased to exist during the "waiting" period .. ... We do not plant Chubais because the bigwigs of the West are behind him and is it dangerous? Let that say that we are now respected in the world and afraid? Yes, no matter how it is, we do not have our own foreign policy and they put on us what they want and they do and they left Syria, they were not afraid of us, but because of their internal problems ...

[DeerIvanovich]

Other experts also associate the establishment of the Izborsk club with the Kremlin’s initiative, but with the significant difference that the Izborsk club, according to the president’s idea, should play the role of a tool that is clean from Western influence and corruption, with which the vector will finally change. development of Russia.
it is quite possible that this is so: the government has organized patriotic forces to provide an adequate response to the corrupt liberals. at least contributed to the emergence of this force, because ignoring indicators of monitoring the aspirations of the population would be, to put it mildly, wrong.

The reaction of the authorities and Putin personally to the activities of the Izborsk club is still unknown. The “electors” themselves position themselves as a force independent of the will of the Kremlin. In their opinion, a lot of comprador-liberal evil spirits have accumulated in the levers of governing the country, and the media are simply captured by them. Moreover, members of the Izborsk club believe that liberalism is spiritually closer to the country's leadership. The near future, as they believe, should show whether Putin accepted the outstretched hand or all of his patriotic pro-imperial rhetoric - no more than a populist maneuver. At the same time, in the conditions of the developing political crisis in the country, the growing efforts of the West to annihilate the Russian state, the president may not have an alternative but to rely on the intellectual forces of the Izborsk club.
Here I fully support. It’s time to drive them away, moreover, the media also adversely affects young people who will need to make crucial decisions for the country in the future.

More details about the activities of the Izborsk Club and its members can be found on the official website: http://www.dynacon.ru/index.php
Thanks for the link

[DeerIvanovich]

I read the comments, the proverb immediately comes to mind: "My hut is on the edge."
Speaking of bureaucracy, theft and bribery, start with yourself. For these vices reign not only in power, but throughout society.
Why are you Humans so fond of indiscriminately judging everyone and everything, but do not want to look at yourself from the outside.
Did any of you give a bribe to the traffic police? I think units. Then what are we talking about ...

[DeerIvanovich]

Minus, I hope those who did not give bribes to the traffic police gave

[denn]

Yes, you are all right. Corruption is a national matter. On trifles: a bribe to the traffic cop, on a large scale - in the official’s chair. If we take the statistics of traffic violations, it is clearly observed here, well, let every 30. What is the likelihood that the traffic violator, having become an official, violates the law. Especially if he knows that the probability of his punishment is extremely small. The picture is clear, IMHO. Therefore, only ideological people, of whom there are very few, can build a system. This is one of the reasons why a country needs an ideology. And the president understands this. Now we have a generation that has grown up on Western values, consumption, each for itself.
Therefore, only START WITH YOURSELF, without options.

[DeerIvanovich]

By the way, even the private sector, there’s also a sea of ​​retribution: enterprises, instead of correcting marriage or competing honestly for the customer, easily do kickbacks everywhere. in particular, it is noticeable to a simple layman on grocery chains where there is no our manufacturer, because he does not even have money for kickbacks, while a foreign one has it.

[pa_nik]

Note. Discussion on this topic often breaks down into the settlement of terms, concepts, the definition of philosophical positions. I'm afraid this also happens at the meetings of the Izborsk club. I hope I'm wrong .. The reason for what is happening is seen in the absence of representatives of, shall we say, "applied industries". I mean businessmen, business executives, security officials, representatives of private business (not to be confused with "bought cheaper, sold more expensive"), in the end, etc. These representatives are necessary, it seems to me, to determine: "here it is necessary to provide a justification, to develop some philosophical concepts," and "in this case, you can use the existing basis for the implementation of specific tasks." It is the "applied people" who are the "locomotive" that pulls the country. And because of their absence, it may turn out that the club, at best, will not interfere, and at worst - will prepare "legal" sticks for our locomotive.

[916-th]

It is useful to analyze the material of this article in conjunction with the material of the article "Mikhail Khazin: A Few Words about Putin", discussed on the site in parallel. By the way, Mikhail Khazin is a member of the Izborsk club.

[916-th]

If Khazin's “few words about Putin” adequately reflect the current balance of power on the elite Olympus, then it is encouraging that Putin went for a third term relying on the support of the people, and not as a figure of one of the elite groups. The popular base gives him the moral right to carry out internal political reforms that meet the interests of the state and its people, and not elite groups. In this case, the Izborsk Club is a very timely aid to Putin.

[oSeR]

I definitely support the work of the Izborsk club. Dear people who love Russia gathered. I’m familiar with the works of many. In the end, it’s time for a long time to change everything radically in the country, and most importantly in ideology.

[spok]

Quote: oSeR

Dear people who love Russia gathered. I’m familiar with the works of many. In the end, it’s time for a long time to change everything radically in the country, and most importantly in ideology.

Putin promised to fix everything in the fourth term

[lars]

Quote: V. Salama

The owner-manager, in principle, is not able to provide the necessary, to increase the well-being of the managed, aggregate indicators of production management efficiency.

And what about the Morozov manufactories and the unprecedented "social system" for workers at that time? Long recognized.

[V. Salama]

Quote: lars

And what about the Morozov manufactories and the unprecedented "social system" for workers at that time?

Capitalism is progressive at the initial stage of its existence, since it provides greater labor productivity than feudalism, has an urgent need for the working class and is forced to use various ways to attract and stimulate it, competing with the old system. In this case, it is obvious that the entire proposed "social sphere" should not only ensure the reproduction (required quality) of labor, but also be extremely attractive and stimulating for the employee. During these periods, industrial enterprises receive super profits and are able to pay large salaries. This "unparalleled social system for workers for that period" is just an insufficient "set of essential phenomena of capitalism", therefore, it is a half-truth, which is worse than a lie, since it is based on facts, and with the help of facts you can prove anything you want. But now we are talking about the effectiveness of management, taking into account all the necessary indicators and objective conditions of this stage of development of society, in which crises are inevitable. But here, too, one can argue with the "fact": an unemployed tinsmith-roofer from the provinces contracted to cover the roof at the capital's boss in the villa. In a month of work I received as much as I did not earn in a year. And what does the efficiency of production management have to do with it? I won't talk about Gazprom employees - Slepakov from the comedy club sang everything in his (you can find it on YouTube) song.

[8 company]

As the saying goes: God forbid you live during the "big dash".

[Geisenberg]

Freemasonry is, that is, shadow power. In this situation, the masses in the government do not pursue state goals, but the goals of their lodge. The question is, will it softly fall on this bed?

[denn]

I read today a piece of news about the next exploits of the liberal government wing of Medvedev. The mood is 0. Wouldn't it be time to get together in a square by the people and show the liberals their place? With these *** Russia will continue to make a breakthrough for a long time, and it would have already done so long ago. We have everything for this. Finally, to transfer all power to the statesmen. Since it’s gone, is it time to organize another patriotic movement around topwar.ru or merge with the existing one, for example, the PGR?

[kukuruzo]

change is definitely necessary and inevitable ... but nothing is clear about this club yet, let it show itself somehow ... so that the blind game does not work

[Egoza]

"The document consists of eleven sections covering the problems of politics, economy and social structure of Russia in the 21st century. Particular attention is paid to the military-industrial complex and the country's defense capability."
S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ...
At least the Izborsk Club at least offers something specific, not idle chatter and criticism for the masses. If it will be good, then good luck!

[1goose3]

Quote: Egoza

At least Izborsk club at least offers something specific

I agree, because we have more critics than critics. They point to shortcomings, but do not know how to fix this completely, and this is the first - concrete that can be taken as a basis.

[Moritz]

Quote: Egoza

"The document consists of eleven sections covering the problems of politics, economy and social structure of Russia in the 21st century. Particular attention is paid to the military-industrial complex and the country's defense capability."
S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ...
At least the Izborsk Club at least offers something specific, not idle chatter and criticism for the masses. If it will be good, then good luck!

how much concreteness in one sentence .... something was already similar program "500 days"? ..... really sailed?

[almamatkulov]

and Putin listens and eats ...

[yuri_dashkin]

And how would I get to know a document? And the names are famous, I just don’t know what Prokhanov, Dugin, Kalashnikov and Archimandrite Tikhon can offer together .... Monarchists with their ideas were 100 years late. Why aren’t there Muslims? But it’s good that there are no liberals, it’s good that there is an adviser to the President.

[ziqzaq]

Quote: yuriy_dashkin

And how would I get to know a document?

Please here is the link: http://www.dynacon.ru/content/articles/975/

[Moritz]

Quote: ziqzaq

An unusually representative composition of participants draws attention

some n ..... bols gathered

[ziqzaq]

Quote: moritz

some n ..... bols gathered

Are you silent Chubais more comfortable?

[Moritz]

Quote: ziqzaq

Are you silent Chubais more comfortable?

I have offended you?

[ziqzaq]

Quote: moritz

I have offended you?

Not at all, your point of view just interests.

[Moritz]

Quote: ziqzaq

Not at all, just your point of view

sort of expressed .... and compared with Chubais, the whole team in its entirety nervously smokes on the sidelines. He knows how to translate his ideas into real actions.

[walter_rus]

The names are loud "Izborsk Club", "Big Dash", but what will happen in reality? And one more doubt. Even if they develop the most beautiful program, who will implement it? The same vertical? And who prevented her from doing this before, without inventing another bicycle in the form of this "Club"?

[Moritz]

Quote: walter_rus

The names are loud "Izborsky Club", "Big Dash", but what will happen in reality? And one more doubt. Even if they develop the most beautiful program, who will implement it?

Well, in general, they should have developed it in close collaboration with those to whom it was put into practice. Usually these are specialized ministries. And so it looks like a team of speechwriters for our esteemed leader, in some regular message he will use the theses from this program and that’s it.

[Moritz]

Quote: walter_rus

The names are loud "Izborsky Club", "Big Dash", but what will happen in reality? And one more doubt. Even if they develop the most beautiful program, who will implement it?

club "White Parrot" suits them better

[yuri_dashkin]

Thank you!

[darkman70]

And to me the situation in Russia and Putin are more and more reminiscent of Stolypin's times in the empire. He also tried to improve something without changing the foundations of the tsarist system. We all remember very well how it ended. Now the situation is similar - patching holes without changing the system of power of comprador-oligarchic capitalism. Putin - as he was the stag of the oligarchs, he remained so. But in the empire at least there were "adversaries" of their own, homegrown ... And now? Take a list of the 100 largest enterprises in Russia or banks and look at the owners (that is, those people who run Russia). These are either foreigners, or there are half foreigners, at least Caucasians and Asians. Russian surnames are in the minority there, and even those live in London and Paris. They don't care about Russia from the big bell tower.
A jerk is needed, but Putin will not carry it out, but completely new people.

[nordcapital]

truncated - the truth! moreover, everything is crushed by 1917 - only Stolypin - no

[Cpa]

Here, Pa-nik, correctly noted more practitioners are needed. And not simple ones, but to be able to fulfill, if you need to devote your life to the fulfillment of the proposed. Because the executive branch is now the weakest of all, atrophied. The rest are cut off from life, my personal opinion, of course Now it all depends on the execution. What is the use of laws and judges if no one normally obeys these laws and programs. I am sure that many of the members of the forum could do this, but for some reason everyone writes: "Well, let's see ..". While we are inside the process, we will not look at anything. I think so, the majority here are military, present, former and future, and we are talking about defenders of the fatherland, let's also make proposals in different industries, and unlike any expert, we will be able to fulfill them.

[Temer]

Everything would be fine, but why does this idea smell like neo-fascism?

[deman73]

time will tell