Military Review

The United States declares Russia a gas war?

251
One of the most effective levers of pressure on the world economy and through it - on the economy of individual states, without a doubt, are energy perturbations. Over the past few years, foreign “partners” have heard with enviable regularity that there is only one state in the modern world that allows itself to exert energy pressure in order to benefit exclusively for itself. And this state is Russia.




On the basis of this philosophy, it often turned out that any attempt to make a favorable adjustment of energy prices by Russian companies abroad was assessed as a new stage of the energy war, in which Moscow seemed to be the exclusive aggressor. In order for the “aggressor” to inflict a crushing and, of course, democratic blow, in the United States of America a strategy was developed aimed at reducing the dependence of the leading countries of the world on those energy carriers that over the past several decades have turned into irreplaceable ones. The strategy was based on the search for new sources of energy designed to reduce the role of classical natural gas and crude oil for the global economy. It would seem, why reduce, if the world has already managed to establish the processes of production, consumption and marketing? On this account, Washington gave the following answer: the United States is going to act as a guarantor of energy security in the future, because the same ordinary natural gas will end sooner or later. A very humanistic idea, and quite in the spirit of the United States - to save humanity from some kind of threat, which even not everyone suspected ...

However, any “humanistic” idea emanating from our big “friends” often hides a completely different goal. This time this goal is more than obvious: to deprive the leading energy player in the world market (Russia) of the possibility of extensive influence on the world market and, accordingly, in geopolitical terms. But in order to deprive Russia of this, it is clearly not enough to state that the head of the Russian Federation is an “anti-democratic regime”, and that Moscow has weapon mass destruction with shaking tubes and other potent on the fragile consciousness of the average Western person with dummy (like Iraq). It is not enough, because those very weak minds have already managed to get used to the words about “Russian totalitarianism” and even to the presence of nuclear warheads in the “totalitarian regime”. And if they got used to it, it was necessary to strike urgently, so to speak, from the other flank.

Here was born the idea that gas and oil are transient, but biofuels and shale gas, you know, eternal ... They say it's time to diversify the economy and give up what the world has got used to, otherwise everyone will have a cold and hungry future. Well, well ... The idea seemed interesting to many, and they began to develop it, especially with regard to shale gas, whose production with initially quite good indicators of volumes and profitability was immediately dubbed the shale revolution. Publications (mainly American, which is quite natural) began to appear with headlines in the spirit of the Soviet classics: “Way to shale gas!” Or “Shale gas is a guarantee of future energy security”. It only remained to make sure that the prices of ordinary natural gas went down, and those countries that were used to solve their energy problems through this raw material began to refuse Russian raw materials.

Initially, everything went perfectly for Washington. Devon Energy was the first in the world to drill a horizontal well for industrial production of shale gas after it was found that the United States has significant reserves of this raw material (24-25 trillion cubic meters, of which about 15% are recoverable).

Large-scale work on the extraction of shale gas in the United States was launched by Chesapeake Energy Corporation, which, as a legal entity, was born in the 1989 year. In just a few years of active mining of shale gas, the corporation has achieved solid success. At the same time, the cost of gas production was relatively low, and, it would seem, a little bit more - and the world will completely refuse to supply conventional natural gas, the main distributor of which is Russia.

Things reached the point that on the desktop the American president in 2008-2009 lay down the paper with such numbers, from which on his lips could only be born a contented smile. These figures showed that the United States reached the first place in the world in gas production (2009 year), and more than a third accounted for the production of, say, alternative types of blue fuel, which somehow proves the complete victory of the United States on the energy market ...

However, ever since the American president danced in the Oval Office for joys, it did not even take two years to pass, when experts suddenly announced that there was a “slight exaggeration” of the extraction volumes. These were experts close to the US authorities. Experts, however, slightly more from those remote authorities made their estimates of gas production in the United States, including shale gas, including the level of price changes for this type of fuel on the world market. And it turned out that the "registry" was not only there, but they were also very impressive. According to some data, they exaggerated gas production in the USA for all 11% ... That is, not quite so: they mined it as it was mined, except that the White House thought it was producing more by 11%. But they also say that Americans never adopt anything from overseas ... Only, you know, your own ... It turns out that they are very much adopting.

But postscripts with postscripts, namely these “official” data went a couple of years ago to be replicated around the world. What did it lead to? Gas prices went down. Washington dreamed about that, but then everything went a little differently, and immediately in several directions. At first, Russia, realizing that the decline in world gas prices could have a painful effect on the budget, simply decided to reduce production and export volumes. In particular, Gazprom recorded a decrease in gas production in 2012 by 6,6% compared to 2011 year.

In the Old World, this instantly caused an unhealthy excitement: some particularly impulsive EU citizens from among those in power began to shout at the top of their voices that Russia is becoming an unreliable supplier. They shouted and shouted, but they didn’t refuse to buy gas. After this move on the part of Russia, gas prices stabilized. In Europe today, on average, Russian gas is about $ 400-450 per 1000 cubic meters and something is not heard about refusals from its purchases ...

Another impartial moment for Washington came from the American environmentalists. It turned out that the technology that companies use to extract shale gas causes enormous damage to the environment. In particular, the essence of the issue rests on the so-called hydraulic fracturing. This technology, according to "green", leads to the fact that the water used for drinking and household needs, get a variety of impurities that can hardly be called useful: toluene, ethylbenzene, etc. To reduce the degree of heat around stories with the contamination of water and soil, the mining companies even invited the residents of the places where shale gas was produced by hydraulic fracturing to be shown on live broadcasts. Naturally, residents said that they felt just fine and did not find any benzene in water. However, the wheel was already spinning, and most of the same impressionable Americans believed the environmentalists and did not believe the invited “witnesses”, who were immediately dubbed false witnesses.

In addition to the above negative barriers for the USA, at least one more is highlighted. This barrier was identified by one more "friends" of the United States - the Chinese authorities. Beijing decided to conduct its independent assessment of the situation on the natural gas market and assess the prospects for importing shale gas from the United States, for example, to Europe. After analyzing the collected information, it turned out that shale gas cannot yet compete with ordinary gas that is transported through pipes. The reason is that even if the United States reaches such a level of shale gas production, at which its volumes will be sufficient for active export to the European Union, the cost of this raw material will be several times higher than the cost of "pipe". After all, shale gas will have to be liquefied in the United States, tankers will be filled with them, delivered across the Atlantic, liquefied in Europe. As a result, Chinese economists have concluded that shale gas is, of course, good, but in order for the system not only to produce it, but also relatively inexpensive delivery from the US to the same Europe, it will take more than a dozen years.

However, American and Western European companies decided not to deviate from their idea of ​​reducing the influence of Gazprom on the European gas market. One of the new moves for the global energy game system to continue its work is the Ukrainian move. Just recently, it became known that the British-Dutch energy giant Shell, as well as the American Exxon Mobile, decided to invest more than 6 billion dollars in the development of the so-called Ukrainian system of unconventional gas. It is reported that investments will be used to develop shale deposits in Yuzovskaya and Oleskaya areas. Yuzovskaya Square is located in the Donetsk and Kharkiv regions and has reserves of around 4 trillion cubic meters of gas. Oleska Square is located in Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk regions. Exxon Mobile experts estimate its reserves at about 3 trillion. m3

That is, Western companies have decided to get close to the other side. Apparently, the Chinese calculations of gas transportation from the United States turned out to be correct ... Yes, and why increase the volume of shale gas production at home, risking anger for environmentalists, if you can conduct an experiment away from your territories ... Is there any benzene after this hydraulic fracturing? they say, now others are finding out ... The choice fell on Ukraine, in which they had already managed to declare that now Yanukovych would be able to produce gas that would be disadvantageous to Putin, and thus would forever enter the annals of history as a politician who would permanently lead Ukraine out of Russia energy dependence ...

Perhaps it was precisely this proposal that Viktor Yanukovych expected from the West, delaying (or rather, not starting it at all) the negotiation process on the possible entry of Ukraine into the Customs Union with Kazakhstan, Belarus and Russia.

After protesting against the production of shale gas in the streets of Donetsk and Mariupol, the “orange” press immediately christened the protesters by those who “work out millions of Putin and Gazprom.” The correspondents even found some schoolboy who claimed that he had come to the rally against the production of chocolate ...

In general, as can be seen, the energy struggle is only gaining momentum, and Moscow, if it is going to continue to exert a certain influence on the world market, should not look at this struggle through its fingers, but accept the challenge. Otherwise, only the information war on this battlefield will cause irreparable damage to the Russian economy.

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  1. Sakhalininsk
    Sakhalininsk 4 February 2013 09: 18
    +44
    Shale gas was originally a very scam topic, so it is not surprising that, as a result, cheerful overseas egeges were supported only by sick psheks. The result is more than indicative for all who believe overseas scams .... shale gas, EXPENSIVE for pocket and SCARFLY for the environment. It is good to use modern technologies for the production of shale gas only somewhere in a distant colony, and not in one's own country.
    1. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 4 February 2013 09: 26
      +15
      And then there is the Qatari direction of the gas war, when they want to pull a branch from Qatar through Syria and Turkey, Turkmen, Baku ... it just doesn't work, the region is explosive, but it became explosive not without the assistance of the United States ... once again proves the correctness of the proverb "Don't spit in the well, the water will come in handy "...
      1. INTER
        INTER 4 February 2013 09: 40
        +11
        Another leapfrog on the topic of gas. And how well they said: USA AND ONCE WANTS TO REMAIN THE GUARANTEE OF ENERGY SECURITY ............ LYCEMERS WITH ................ We saw their security in Arabic the world angry
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 00
          +2
          I don’t know what about shale gas, but Qatar’s liquefied gas is already pushing our Russian one to the full, as it is much cheaper. Already in full swing there is a construction of receivers throughout Europe, even in Ukraine in Odessa.
          1. Averias
            Averias 4 February 2013 10: 31
            +13
            And you can do it in more detail, otherwise you know how it sounds too loud. Europe sits on our gas and is not going to change anything. On account of the fact that, I quote: Construction of receivers is in full swing in Europe and even in Ukraine and Odessa. "And forgive me, since when has Odessa suddenly become separate from Ukraine, explain. And on account of the construction of receivers in Ukraine, not so long ago they have already decided to build a terminal with the Italians - but it turned out that this is a scam.The construction has not yet begun and the money has already been stolen.And what is easier, to get gas through a pipe or to bring it on tankers? The answer is obvious.
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 33
              -2
              Quote: Averias
              And can be more detailed

              I laid out the bottom of the article, read ..........
            2. cdrt
              cdrt 5 February 2013 02: 02
              0
              At current gas prices, it’s cheaper to drive a tanker.
              The presence of two or more suppliers allows the buyer to crush them at a price.
              In addition, there are a lot of spot deals on liquefied gas, respectively, prices for them can be very low (can be very high) - because the exchange
          2. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 11: 48
            +3
            where cramped, please? with numbers only?
          3. Juga
            Juga 4 February 2013 12: 48
            +14
            nycsson
            but Qatar’s liquefied gas is already pushing our Russian

            Do you think that Qatari gas is enough for everyone?
            The maximum annual production in Qatar does not exceed 77 million tons of LNG, which in terms of calorific value corresponds to ~ 106 billion cubic meters of natural gas ...
            How many cubes are needed there for Europe and all the sufferers, do you calculate?
            Moreover, Qatar is reducing sales in spot markets, moving to fixed contracts, and here - who did not have time, he was late ...

            it is much cheaper

            Again your lie, do a deeper analysis ...
            As of January 2013, the spot price is about 18 bucks per million BTU, resulting in a price per ton of liquefied natural gas 887 evergreen.
            Много это или мало?
            We translate into thousands of cubic meters of natural gas (by calorific value in BTU) and get 642 bucks per thousand cubic meters. Cheap and does not smell ...
            In general, the spot price is a rather capricious thing, and tying up a country's budget while orienting on it is rather dangerous.
            For long-term contracts with Qatar, prices again depend on the volume of the contract and on the quality of relations between the contracting parties.

            For all of the above, a request to you - do not rush slogans on the forum without elaborating on the topic on which you are broadcasting.
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 4 February 2013 13: 13
              -14%
              Quote: Juha
              Do you think that Qatari gas is enough for everyone?

              Enough to destroy the Russian economy!
              Quote: Juha
              we get 642 bucks per thousand cubes

              I do not know whether your numbers are reliable or not, but I know for sure that the cost of Qatari gas is several times lower than Russian, hence the price.
              But why don’t you give an example of the cost of Russian gas?

              An alternative to Russian gas may be Qatari. Ukraine is exploring the possibility of buying liquefied fuel from Qatar.

              This was stated by Mykola Azarov during a visit to the local company "Ras Gas". According to the Prime Minister, the cost of Qatari gas, including delivery, is three times cheaper than Russian gas. In Qatar - Mykola Azarov on an official visit. This state is one of the world's three largest producers of blue fuel, and cooperation with it is extremely important for Ukraine. According to the prime minister, not only the final cost of gas will significantly decrease due to the calculation of the saved funds, but also the remaining money will go to the development of healthcare and education. Prior to direct purchases from Qatar, Ukraine must fulfill all the terms of the contract with Russian suppliers.
              1. Juga
                Juga 4 February 2013 13: 21
                +8
                Again, solid slogans ...
                Be nice with the numbers, I brought my calculations, Google to help you to prove your thesis.

                nycsson
                Enough to destroy the Russian economy!
                1. nycsson
                  nycsson 4 February 2013 13: 32
                  -17%
                  Quote: Juha
                  Google to help you to prove your thesis.

                  Read .......

                  Natural gas will fall in price in the coming years
                  And Gazprom will go bankrupt

                  http://imhoclub.lv/material/1439
                  1. El13
                    El13 4 February 2013 14: 18
                    +7
                    Quote: nycsson
                    Ukraine is exploring the possibility of buying liquefied fuel from Qatar.

                    This was stated by Mykola Azarov

                    What only over the years Azarov did not say, including ten times already, that he is about to agree on a price reduction with Russia. And the fact that Ukraine is exploring opportunities is good, I've also studied the German language ...
                    1. nycsson
                      nycsson 4 February 2013 18: 29
                      -2
                      Quote: El13
                      What only over the years Azarov did not say, including ten times already, that he is about to agree on a price reduction with Russia. And the fact that Ukraine is exploring opportunities is good, I've also studied the German language ...

                      Wait and see........ hi
                  2. Juga
                    Juga 4 February 2013 18: 47
                    +11

                    nycsson
                    Read .......
                    http://imhoclub.lv/material/1439

                    Downhole reading matter, if someone's insults, wishes and dreams are elevated to the rank of "expert" opinion, then I will simply keep silent about objectivity ...

                    From the article:
                    “But liquefaction and transportation also cost money ...”

                    - On a large scale, these procedures in terms of a cubic meter of gas are vanishingly small.

                    Leasing a tanker is "such a trifle" disappearing because:
                    The cost of modern vessels of the Q-Flex class (210 thousand cubic meters or almost 100 thousand tons of LNG) and Q-Max (266 thousand cubic meters or 122 thousand tons of LNG) is $ 250-300 million, the cost of their operation (including depreciation) reaches $ 60 thousand per day. Currently, there are only about 350 such ships in the world; only a few shipyards in the world can build them - in Korea, Japan and, since last year, in China. There is not enough tonnage, so tariffs for gas carriers' freight reached record heights at the beginning of this year - $ 140-150 thousand per day.

                    That is, it will fit into Q-Flex, in terms of natural gas, 138 million cubic meters, in Q-Max 168,5 million cubic meters, calculate how much the tanker should go to the destination and at what price it will cost.
                    Regasification also did not forget to mention this figure - $ 17-26 per 1 thousand cubic meters.

                    Total for your "analytical" article - a pitiful attempt at an "opinion".
                    1. Curculum
                      Curculum 5 February 2013 08: 02
                      +2
                      Quote: Juha
                      That is, it will fit into Q-Flex, in terms of natural gas, 138 million cubic meters, in Q-Max 168,5 million cubic meters, calculate how much the tanker should go to the destination and at what price it will cost.

                      In the case of the gas carriers you indicated, you don't even need to count, because these gas carriers are in length: Q-Flex - 285-295, Q-Max - 345 meters, and if the vessel is more than 250 meters, then the Bosphorus can be passed only by one such a day, the rest are waiting in line, which hardly anyone would agree ... Therefore, the "Ukrainian project" envisages tankers with a volume of 178 cubic meters.
                      But that’s not even the point: the Turks are planning to build a third terminal just southwest of the Bosphorus with a capacity of 3-5 billion cubic meters (to reduce the workload of the straits), and then, by reverse over the existing network, to sell gas to neighbors (http: // www.bloomberg.com/news/6-2013-01/turkey-seeks-partnership-with-qatar-to

                      -build-third-lng-terminal.html). Although the Turkish minister called Greece and Bulgaria, but everyone perfectly understands what this means. But the Turks, just, will not miss their benefit or the possibility of profit.
                  3. Simon
                    Simon 4 February 2013 22: 08
                    +2
                    Why did you get that Gazprom will get excited, the Gazprom pipe also pulls Japan to China. Europe will not take, although this is a grandmother for two said, China will always take.
                  4. cdrt
                    cdrt 5 February 2013 02: 06
                    +1
                    And we all die
                  5. ikrut
                    ikrut 5 February 2013 21: 45
                    +2
                    Quote: nycsson
                    http://imhoclub.lv/material/1439

                    Latvian site :))))) Well, have fun. You would also give a link to Polish shale gas sites. There is complete fun.
                    When the Polish gas bubble burst before it had time to inflate, this whole fraternity for about two weeks seriously discussed the fact that the decision on the unprofitability of shale gas production in Poland was due to the fault of the typist who reprinted the gas exploration report and missed one or two zeros in the final figure. And this typist was bought by Gazprom, like the entire Polish government.
                    There is such a thing - how "in the coming years" gas will become cheaper (well, there, China will reduce consumption, England will change its mind to pull a pipe from the Russian gas pipeline, large and different fields are being opened in the Baltic States and Poland) - then we will rejoice :)) )
                    How did O. Bender say there? "When they beat you - (then) you will cry" (c)
                  6. kosmos44
                    kosmos44 9 February 2013 07: 58
                    0
                    Quote: nycsson
                    Read .......

                    Natural gas will fall in price in the coming years
                    And Gazprom will go bankrupt


                    And if I don’t read ...

                    Do not go broke?
                2. Gluxar_
                  Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 14: 53
                  +3
                  Quote: Juha
                  Again, solid slogans ... Be nice with the numbers, I brought my calculations, Google to help you to prove your thesis.

                  I just laid out similar calculations to him, but this comrade wants
                  Quote: nycsson
                  Enough to destroy the Russian economy!

                  So facts are really not needed, propaganda and self-consolation are needed. The entire exhaust of Qatar for Russia is no more than 4% of GDP, that is, its annual growth. But it’s probably easier to come to an agreement with the "friends" of Qatar in the region and it will blaze like Syria and Libya, only that the Sunnis will be cut into pieces.
                  1. Juga
                    Juga 4 February 2013 18: 28
                    +5
                    Yes, a person clearly works on the forum, let him ...
                    Only a "special person" can just post any progagandan nonsense, not paying attention to the objective realities, confirmed by figures.
                  2. nycsson
                    nycsson 4 February 2013 18: 31
                    -6
                    Quote: Gluxar_
                    I just laid out similar calculations to him, but this comrade wants

                    Kindergarten! And here it is? I just defend my point! And it seems to me that bad trends have been outlined for gas in Russia.
                    1. Gluxar_
                      Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 20: 25
                      +3
                      Quote: nycsson
                      Kindergarten! And here it is? I just defend my point! And it seems to me that bad trends have been outlined for gas in Russia.

                      If so, write, so I would like it to be so. I have this opinion. You exhaust, tapi expert. If you really think as you write, then I feel sorry for you, simply because the world is dark and incomprehensible to you. In the midst of developed information technology, such a mindset as physical ugliness in the Middle Ages. Hence the appropriate attitude towards you.
                    2. atalef
                      atalef 4 February 2013 21: 11
                      +1
                      Quote: nycsson
                      And it seems to me that bad trends have been outlined for gas in Russia.


                      The trend has been outlined for a long time and, and Gazprom had a hand in this. When Europe began to feel that Gazprom’s pricing policy was simply a continuation of Russia's foreign policy, a rethinking of prospects took place. The article is called . America declared war, I do not think that the first shot was fired by America or Europe. The first problems began with Ukraine, which pumped out gas. Russia responded with * War *, which was absolutely adequate at that time. But Russia has forgotten one thing, or rather a few points.
                      . In our world, not the one who is really right is right, but the right who is better publicized is right. Ukraine made itself a victim (which was not difficult. No one looks into the preconditions) Russia limited (for not paying gas supplies) involuntarily affecting European consumers, and it was already useless to look for the right or the guilty since Russia is a supplier (Ukraine is poor and unhappy - PR worked) and the wheel spun on how to limit Russia's influence on the European gas market.
                      The biggest mistake of Gazprom (and Russia) is that they did not understand when they went too far with prices and pressure (to prevent diversification of supplies). Prices soared (therefore, production not promising in the past, became profitable and gave impetus to the search for technology), countries Europe (and in war as in war, the purchase of weapons was never profitable) began to simply subsidize the difference in the price of shale gas making it profitable for the producer, Qatar seeing this (and he has just sea money, like gas) began to build facilities for liquefying gas and f from for transportation, starting with spot sales and now moving to long-term deliveries. Gas production has increased dramatically. while this keeps pace with consumption, but many fields are under development (especially Qatar, Iran is pulling up too) and a turning point is inevitable (if it happens a crisis like 2008) can even be very fast. The price of gas will begin to fall - this is inevitable.
                      Russia at one time could stifle all these undertakings (with technological developments and Qatar gas) at the root, lowering the price and ruining all the endeavors of the adversaries. But in the long run in Russia, the nickname never thought, and ate the money, spent, profuched - creating stable funds, raising salaries (often unreasonably) and generally creating the illusion of an endless holiday. Only having forgotten that the flywheel spun abroad and it is now impossible to stop it (more precisely, you can drastically reduce the price), but then (over the years without creating an effective alternative to gas) the whole budget will collapse. It’s built on this. America has already refused import (Qatari gas), what do you think, where will it go? Large deposits have been found in Israel, Cyprus, and they are within easy reach of Europe.
                      Due to empty wars and unwillingness to lower the price, they practically lost their ally to Ukraine.
                      All this because of the stupid desire to grab money now. without hesitation . what will be tomorrow.
                      Therefore, these attempts with a speedy modernization (to do at least something alternative to gas) But the people no longer believe, and also want their own piece of cake. and not promises tomorrow. But the government cannot give anything. Now the budget is almost without surplus. and when inevitably comes (and it will come) a drop in gas prices --- unrest of lumpens will begin.
                      Sometimes a decrease in profits today gives a gain in the future. but Gazprom’s Rvachev’s policy is leading Russia to the abyss.
                      1. Curculum
                        Curculum 5 February 2013 08: 16
                        +4
                        Quote: atalef
                        Due to empty wars and unwillingness to lower the price, they practically lost their ally to Ukraine.

                        You have something with memory. Answer (yourself) the 3 of the question:
                        1) What is the price of gas for Ukraine before the 2005 year ?;
                        2) Who is the initiator of the pricing review at 2005 ?;
                        3) What are the "allied" declarations on the part of Ukraine in the period 2005-2008?
                        Quote: atalef
                        All this because of the stupid desire to grab money now. without hesitation . what will be tomorrow.

                        This and everything else you have written applies to the rulers're coming out to a greater extent than to the leadership of Gazprom. And who is at the "broken trough" - it is enough to compare the tendencies of economic development, and not write "prophecies".
                      2. KORGI
                        KORGI 5 February 2013 22: 29
                        -1
                        Well, it’s a sin for you to complain about Ukrainian politicians. They with Gazprom have waved such a contract that you should erect monuments to them. And they pay the price of Gazprom for gas, and the fleet in the Crimea for a nominal fee and gas transit costs, but you don’t like everything. still politicians of Ukraine did not please you?
                      3. atalef
                        atalef 6 February 2013 08: 02
                        -1
                        Quote: Kurkul
                        You have something with memory. Answer (yourself) the 3 of the question:
                        1) What is the price of gas for Ukraine before the 2005 year ?;
                        2) Who is the initiator of the pricing review at 2005 ?;
                        3) What are the "allied" declarations on the part of Ukraine in the period 2005-2008?

                        I’m not even going to climb into the jungle of demagoguery, the gas price was a stumbling block, it is more expensive than Belarus by 2 times and German by 100 bucks, it’s to blame for the beginning of the * war * back in the 2004-5 year Ukraine, Russia crushed it under Tymoshenko, the price * fair * Everyone is happy, Russia, as an ally, has practically lost Ukraine. The whole conversation is not who is right, but who is smarter and to whom what was important. Gas price or Ukraine as an ally

                        Quote: Kurkul
                        And who is at the "broken trough" - it is enough to compare the tendencies of economic development, and not write "prophecies".

                        My goal was not to compare the economies of Russia and Ukraine. It's stupid and clear who is where. I said that Gazprom’s desire to snatch today and now everything (without long-term plans) has led to the development of technologies for shale gas and the construction of terminals and fleet (for liquefied gas) by Qatar, and if you rummage deeper and the war in Syria (as the main the reason in my opinion is the laying of a gas pipeline from Qatar to Europe via Syria)
                        Generally read the post more closely.
                      4. Curculum
                        Curculum 6 February 2013 09: 47
                        0
                        Quote: atalef
                        I'm not even going to climb into the jungle of demagoguery

                        And what about "demagoguery" to the questions?
                        Quote: atalef
                        I said that Gazprom’s desire to snatch today and now everything (without long-term plans) has led to the development of technologies for shale gas and the construction of terminals and fleet (for liquefied gas) Qatar

                        Many "snatch" today and now, the consequences are different, depending on the subject (theme) of zeal. The development of technologies is quite natural when there is competition, but in our case, everything depends on the profitability of production with the proposed technologies.
                        In my opinion, no later than in a year, everything will become clear to everyone finally, the case of Shell-Ukraine will be very revealing.
                        Unfortunately, since 2005 Ukraine has ceased to be an ally of the Russian Federation, but this is not due to the "desire of Gazprom to snatch" (suffice it to recall the initiator of the termination of existing gas contracts in 2005), but with the politicking of individual individuals who are only concerned with personal enrichment, without taking into account historical preconditions and geopolitical implications. The events around the gas ukro / offshore companies and the struggle for the control of the ukro-crane only laid the foundation for further actions of the Deriban in metallurgy, chemical industry, oil refining, etc.
                        Quote: atalef
                        and if you dig deeper and the war in Syria (because the main reason in my opinion is the laying of a gas pipeline from Qatar to Europe via Syria)

                        As for the main reason: for Qatar - I agree, but Qatar is not alone in the "Syrian issue", and its violin is not the main one. Proceeding from this, the laying of the gas pipeline is secondary or even the third, but not the main one: the whole point is in the policy pursued by Syria itself, which does not allow "covering with a dollar" this section (figuratively speaking).
          4. NSG42
            NSG42 4 February 2013 18: 49
            +2
            nycsson,
            You are so diligently defending Qatar gas, that’s good, buy and use, just don’t ask for more Russian. Be healthy and live richly!
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 35
              -4
              Quote: NSG42
              You are so diligently defending Qatar gas, that’s good, buy and use, just don’t ask for more Russian. Be healthy and live richly!

              What does the protection of Qatari gas have to do with it? I don’t understand! I defend my point of view, which is that the enemies of our country are preparing us a time bomb! It’s a pity you don’t understand this!
              1. Gluxar_
                Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 20: 32
                +5
                Quote: nycsson
                What does the protection of Qatari gas have to do with it? I don’t understand! I defend my point of view, which is that the enemies of our country are preparing us a time bomb! It’s a pity you don’t understand this!

                The whole Qatari gas gamble is a gamble only in the headlines of the media and foreign propaganda. Some politicians, in their feeble mind, try to refer to this phony adventure in REAL negotiations. This is the same as if you come to the market and ask to sell you a car for one ruble, they will tell you that "you are fucked from an oak tree" and they will send you somewhere far away, but you do not lag behind and say that you saw a Mercedes in another market for 50 kopecks because the ruble for this car is more fair, they again send you to *** and say that you go and buy there for 50 kopecks, and you insist that you want to buy here, but not for half a million, but for a ruble. You are again sent where you should, and you start complaining to everyone in the neighborhood that you are being cheated and not being sold, you start to scare away other buyers, they may not go into too much shopping, the seller has no revenue. And there will be many disgruntled people around, just because one patient in the head proves his stupid and far from reality point of view.

                Do the same and raising this dead topic for more than one year.
                1. nycsson
                  nycsson 5 February 2013 14: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Gluxar_
                  The whole adventure of Qatari gas is an adventure only in the headlines of the media and foreign propaganda.

                  I do not think so!
                  1. BYRY
                    BYRY 6 February 2013 01: 36
                    -2
                    Are you not supposed to think like that in your service?
          5. Egoza
            Egoza 4 February 2013 18: 52
            +4
            Quote: nycsson
            Ukraine is exploring the possibility of buying liquefied fuel from Qatar.

            We reviewed, sort of agreed, the result - see my post below.
          6. Juga
            Juga 4 February 2013 19: 42
            +4

            nycsson
            This was stated by Mykola Azarov


            Yes, Azarov generally "burns with a verb":

            N. Azarov noted that today "we have problems with the construction of an" LNG-terminal "for receiving liquefied gas. They are primarily due to the fact that Turkey is not very willing to consider the possibility of tankers with liquefied gas through its straits."

            According to the prime minister, in this regard, Ukraine is considering other options for placing the terminal. “Therefore, we are exploring various options for locating the appropriate plant on the other side of Turkey. I mean the Mediterranean Sea and other possibilities»- said N. Azarov.


            Since when did Ukraine have access to the Mediterranean Sea?
            1. KORGI
              KORGI 5 February 2013 22: 31
              0
              Through the Bosphorus. Not?
              1. Juga
                Juga 5 February 2013 23: 48
                +1
                So to the sea of ​​the Laptev Mona reach ...
                Does she have her own, dear zemlyatse, for the construction of a tama terminal?
                1. Gans72
                  Gans72 6 February 2013 01: 21
                  +1
                  Yanukovych and company, even reach the sun, provided that they will have a robust young lady laughing
        2. Quit
          Quit 4 February 2013 18: 43
          +1
          Juga,

          Where did you get such strange swap prices? On January 17, 2013, on the British NBP trading platform, gas went up to $ 398,7 / 1000 m3, which is 8,5% higher than the average price for the first decade of January 1.
          Contracts for delivery on January 18, 2013 and weekends were concluded at a price already above $ 406 / 1000m3. Yes, and no one forms a gas supply in winter at the maximum price, it’s understandable to a fool, they just buy it, in case of severe cold, if there are not enough reserves in underground storages. Regarding gas supplies to Europe: even Norway, one of the main suppliers, like the Russian Federation, does not have the slightest confidence in increasing supplies to the European continent, although it declares the possibility of increasing deliveries by 30% within 6- and years, what to speak of deliveries by other countries.
      2. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 13: 18
        +9
        Quote: nycsson
        I don’t know what about shale gas, but Qatar’s liquefied gas is already pushing our Russian one to the full, as it is much cheaper. Already in full swing there is a construction of receivers throughout Europe, even in Ukraine in Odessa.

        Shale gas is a linden and a provocation; we do not live on the moon. As for LNG, Russia has also built its liquefaction plants in the Asian region. Qatar, on the other hand, made its multi-billion dollar investments in LNG as early as 2006-2008, amid rising commodity prices. Since then, he has generally been hit by default, as he took loans. He has no choice and he needs to at least somehow repel investments, because he will do anything, even dumping, in order to gain his market share. However, at real cost, LNG will always lose to pipe gas, especially in the European direction. An exit for Qatar would be in China and the rest of Asia, but the status of a US vassal cut off this direction too. Hence the aggressiveness of the Qatari regime towards neighbors and competitors. It is more like agony. In the event of an escalation in the Iranian direction, the full potential of Qatar will be destroyed at the first bombardment. This is understood by all major players, and therefore is not in a hurry to switch to Qatar in the long run, even despite the dempign.
      3. Egoza
        Egoza 4 February 2013 18: 51
        +5
        Quote: nycsson
        but Qatar’s liquefied gas is already crowding our Russian,

        Do not be scared ahead of schedule! Literally today the following information appeared:
        Ukrainian LNG terminal has new problems - Azarov
        Prime Minister says construction hinders Turkey
        Prime Minister Mykola Azarov claims that the liquefied gas terminal in Ukraine is facing a problem in the form of Turkey’s position regarding the passage of fuel tankers through the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.
        He stated this at a meeting with the special representative of the US State Department for Energy, Carlos Pascual.
        "We, of course, have problems with the construction of LNG for receiving liquefied gas, they are primarily due to the fact that Turkey is not very willing to consider the possibility of tankers with liquefied gas passing through its straits," Azarov said.
        http://www.segodnya.ua/economics/enews/U-ukrainskogo-LNG-terminala-novye-problem
        y-Azarov.html
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 39
          -2
          Quote: Egoza
          Do not be scared ahead of schedule!

          Yes to me that to be frightened? Let Medvedev and Putin get scared!
          Quote: Egoza
          Prime Minister says construction hinders Turkey

          I know! Just do not forget that in addition to Ukraine there are many more European countries that buy our gas and there are no obstacles to its delivery! hi
        2. xan
          xan 5 February 2013 02: 03
          +2
          Quote: Egoza
          Ukrainian LNG terminal has new problems - Azarov
          Prime Minister says construction hinders Turkey

          How can I negotiate a terminal without having worked through all the logistics?
          The Turks have acted honestly, saying so now.
          I can imagine how the professionalism of the U government is quoted after the last passages, especially with a skier.
      4. ikrut
        ikrut 5 February 2013 21: 28
        +2
        Quote: nycsson
        Already in full swing the construction of receivers throughout Europe,

        Where exactly "with might and main"? Name at least a couple of places where terminals for Qatari gas are being built. The Ukrainian scam does not count.
  2. Papakiko
    Papakiko 4 February 2013 09: 59
    +1
    ShturmKGB
    "Don't spit in the well, the water will come in handy."

    Yes, this is more than an actual saying for "mattress-makers" and their "slaves".
    And ours apparently in the course "Do good, throw him into the water" wink



    "Golodrans and Mattressniki" will not stop there, it is all the money saved on the purchase of goods and the big markups during its retail sale.
    A friend in Barcelona pays 300 E for gas. But they do not burn 500 cubic meters for any.
  3. nycsson
    nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 11
    -10%
    Qatar could push Russia out of the global gas market

    http://www.centrasia.ru/newsA.php?st=1333724880

    Paradoxically, the tiny, but ambitious and dynamic Qatar is Russia's main competitor in the global energy markets.
    While Moscow, bogged down in international political and technical problems, was building pipelines that were supposed to allow it to solve problems with transit countries, Doha created a worldwide network of liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals and formed the largest specialized fleet of 54 ships.
    1. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 13: 24
      +16
      Qatar took loans and invested in the construction of a tanker fleet and LNG plants for more than $ 20 billion, and this is at the peak of growth in 2008. Today, it incurs colossal losses on interest on loans, while it did not and does not have sales growth. As soon as Gazprom lowered the price of its gas, half of Europe immediately refused the Qatari gas. Today, several LNG receivers are being built, but only under old contracts. No new ones yet.
      Of course, the real picture of events does not suit investors, because a completely different wave arises in the media about some kind of powerful Qatar. Although China itself has increased gas production over the past 4 years many times more than Qatar itself, this is not in the media trend. Qatar is a duck that is already being dealt with by the USA.
    2. mda
      mda 4 February 2013 18: 50
      +6
      Quote: nycsson
      nycsson

      I read about the ruin of Gazprom, and if you didn’t notice it was written by an Estonian ...
  4. Gluxar_
    Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 13: 03
    +8
    There is both a Chinese direction and an Australian one, however these are not battlefields, but economic projects. They will all be realized sometime, since humanity needs energy, the only question is who will receive their profit first. Indeed, many regimes are not destined to live up to the moment when investments give a profit. There is a crisis in the yard, because competition is intensifying, everyone needs money NOW, and not tomorrow.
    In this game, the USA also made their bet, which is not surprising. However, their approach is as always cannibalistic. They will receive the money today or "tomorrow evening", but the reckoning for such approaches will come decades later. Until all this muck rises from a depth of 1-2 km, until a toxic concentration in plants and animals is accumulated. However, the treatment will no longer be relevant, millions of cubic kilometers of the breed will be infected and it will simply not be possible to clean them. The decay time into no less toxic elements without direct exposure to sunlight will be tens and hundreds of years. However, Americans don't care, by their nature. They are here today, they have already departed tomorrow. They never think about the future, but live in the present. Hence, there are less costs and higher profits.
  • nycsson
    nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 04
    -4
    Ukraine decided to drastically cut purchases from Gazprom
    http://politikus.ru/economy/3137-ukraina-reshila-rezko-sokratit-zakupki-u-gazpro
    ma.html

    Naftogaz of Ukraine plans to purchase only 2013 billion cubic meters of gas from Russia in 20. This, according to RIA Novosti, said the deputy chairman of the board of the Ukrainian state-owned company Vadim Chuprun. For comparison, in 2011, supplies to Ukraine from Russia amounted to about 40-45 billion cubic meters. Gazprom has not yet reacted to a possible reduction in exports.
    1. El13
      El13 4 February 2013 14: 35
      +4
      Yeah, they already got one bill for 7 watermelons ... for the shortfall.
    2. Averias
      Averias 4 February 2013 15: 39
      +6
      What they do not buy, they simply steal. There are examples of this.
    3. SEM
      SEM 4 February 2013 17: 46
      +5
      It’s easier to steal)))
    4. MG42
      MG42 5 February 2013 01: 07
      +4
      This news is 2,5 months. back, there’s a very tricky contract = take or pay formula, although you haven’t chosen = penalties, it’s almost impossible to appeal against. the agreement with a $ 100 gas discount in exchange for a prolongation of the lease of the Black Sea Fleet base in the Crimea was ratified in the parliaments of both countries and means an interstate level, and not just between households. subjects.
    5. cdrt
      cdrt 5 February 2013 02: 16
      0
      And how many in addition to Naftogaz are private faceFirtash enterprises for example? It would not be all that Naftagaz refuses?
  • ism_ek
    ism_ek 4 February 2013 10: 33
    +4
    Quote: Sakhalininets
    Shale gas is initially a very scam topic

    Is oil and gas production in the Arctic not a scam?
    Gas pipelines from the USSR to Europe also seemed a scam.
    The US industry now receives gas at prices 2 ... 3 times lower than Russian. Russian metallurgists are building new facilities in the United States and Canada based on shale gas.

    In reality, the states are now experiencing an industrial boom in everything related to gas. While Medvedev is "scratching his turnips" and talking about an innovative way of development, the Americans are building new factories.
    But this year we are planning another increase in gas prices ... Che why? Does the government want to completely strangle Russian production?

    The Americans have a simple calculation. Take money from the Russian stab. fund and provide its industry with cheap gas. Stifle Russian metallurgy with dumping. And as always "cut coupons".
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 42
      0
      Quote: ism_ek
      The Americans have a simple calculation. Take money from the Russian stab. fund and provide its industry with cheap gas. Stifle Russian metallurgy with dumping. And as always "cut coupons".

      I completely agree with you. I have a feeling that our government is specifically strangling our business, etc. gas, gas and electricity prices! am
      On this occasion there is a very good book by Nikolai Starikov! It can be easily downloaded on the Internet.

      Nikolai Viktorovich Starikov

      Cherche la oil. Why is our Stabilization Fund located TAM?

      I recommend everyone to read! Maybe some brains will fall into place ........
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 13: 57
        +12
        Quote: nycsson
        I completely agree with you. I have a feeling that our government is specifically strangling our business, etc. gas, gas and electricity prices! On this occasion there is a very good book by Nikolai Starikov! It can be easily downloaded on the Internet. Nikolai Viktorovich Starikov Scherche la oil. Why is our Stabilization Fund located TAM?

        But I do not agree. I already wrote about the difference in subsidizing economies I will not discuss. Russia is not the United States, all mechanisms are different. And compare with Europe, with which our ties are HUNDREDS times closer in terms of trade and everything else. So in Europe, gas is MUCH more expensive and gasoline is significantly more expensive. Europeans are fools? Strangle your economy? They that Greece is not enough? So do not let the misinformation, the United States is a thief and a bandit, it is not at all market-oriented, the prices are determined by the government led by transnational corporations, the people are silent and sitting in Guantanomo and other prisons of the CIA.
        Russia and Europe are a more civilized and free model of the development of societies, therefore they rely on their own strengths and cannot steal from their neighbors, and therefore prices are higher.


        As for Starikov, it is useful for everyone to read, but he is also brought in on turns, the sense of discrimination is abstracted and far from reality.

        As for the Stabilization Fund, this is generally a separate issue. Who in the course will not even read. The stabilization fund has long been gone, it is divided into the National Welfare Fund and a bunch of other funds with its own focus. Better to look at gold reserves.
        For people who are more versed in the topic, it will not be the media picture of "banks" that will be more revealing, but the real value and indicators of this "stabilization fund" over the years of its existence and the ratio of its size to the debt of Russian private and state companies to foreign creditors. So at the beginning of the 2008 crisis, the level of savings in the Stabilization Fund corresponded to and even slightly exceeded the entire debt of the private and public sectors of the Russian economy to foreign creditors, and this level of "money-box" was always there. As soon as budget revenues and the trade balance grew, the government's expenditures in social and infrastructure projects also grew, when income fell, the programs were also reduced.
        what does this mean to what results? The essence of the stabilization fund itself lies not in the ephemeral accumulation of "extra money", but in the guarantee of the preservation of economic sovereignty in the event of bankruptcy of a number of branches of the Russian national economy. Simply put, if an enterprise becomes bankrupt, then it becomes state property, and not a foreign bank that issued a loan to this enterprise, while the state pays the debt. It was this strategy that made it possible to survive the 2008 crisis and not only not lose a significant part of the economy, but also to develop further. In fact, in 2008-2009, a hidden nationalization was carried out with the preservation of jobs and the prevention of massive bankruptcies, millions of people were able to maintain their standard of living. In the southern European countries this did not happen, and there a huge part of the economies of the countries was simply captured by banks like JPMorgan, the same in the Baltic countries. USA feasting on corpses.
        So the brains on the ground, sorry not everyone.
        1. El13
          El13 4 February 2013 14: 41
          +2
          Gluxar_,
          it looks like the picture you described most closely corresponds to reality, at least I have been prompted to such conclusions quite recently.
        2. ism_ek
          ism_ek 4 February 2013 14: 43
          -4
          Quote: Gluxar_
          I already wrote about the difference in subsidizing economies I will not discuss. Russia is not the United States, all mechanisms are different.

          No one says repeating American or Chinese recipes. But sitting on a money bag is futile. Already, oil exports are equal to food imports. We just eat our natural resources.
          When Putin came to power, Russia and China produced approximately the same number of cars. Now China produces 20 million cars a year !!! You can call the situation in China a bubble.
          But what is the situation with car production in Russia? Full
          Having come to power, Putin set a clear goal - doubling the GDP. Why was it replaced by a decrease in debts to form a stub. fund?
          1. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 15: 18
            +14
            Quote: ism_ek
            No one says repeating American or Chinese recipes. But sitting on a money bag is futile. Already, oil exports are equal to food imports. We just eat our natural resources.

            I described the situation above. Nobody sits on a money bag. This money has worked and is working for our economy. Only the scheme is two-level. Companies don't run out of money, they borrow money on foreign markets at international rates. For large projects this is about 4-5% per annum. The state also holds the same amount of funds in foreign securities, at 2-2.5%, but without any stocks, since these are mainly bonds, not shares. The difference in interest is a payment for stability and the absence of direct risks. In addition, it is difficult to imagine a mechanism for direct support of the Russian private sector, so that the inflow of $ 500 billion does not increase domestic inflation and burn out any GDP growth in it. If you are familiar with economics, then you understand that excess money supply generates inflation. Gradually pumping up the economy does not have such an effect. In other words, the Russian economy is unable to efficiently process all the money it makes. Therefore, there is a differentiation of the Russian economy. There is the so-called private sector of TNCs, which operates on a "free market" basis, and there is the state sector, as exemplified by RosSelHozBank and similar "near-market" structures, where money is gradually pumped in in portions that the economy can swallow. But the state cannot abandon the "free market" either, since the loss of these industries and enterprises will painfully hit everyone else. Therefore, there are always such reserves that, in the event of a TNK bankruptcy, will make it possible to retain assets in the ownership of Russia and for the needs of Russia, even if this is not always economically beneficial.
            So we do not eat up natural resources, we pay with them to keep the sovereignty and people from extinction. Something that has been so actively prepared since the 80s. And ten years of the path of restoration is not enough in relation to 20 years of falling into the abyss. Break not build. And as you understand, not everything is as simple as I describe. In addition to objective factors such as "filling the economy with real production in relation to the invested funds", there are also subjective actions of the players who are not profitable for the restoration of sovereign Russia. Therefore, it is not so easy to introduce a new currency, for example, the Kobovsky energy ruble provided with the production of real energy, no matter how sensible and fair this topic is. As long as the world is ruled by force, not justice and Russia does not have enough strength to influence the whole world, it is good that we are still the masters of our country.

            As for China, compare not the absolute figures but the percentage dynamics of the main economic indicators and compare not with 2000, but with the 90th. Or compare China and Switzerland in car production over the same period. Or India and Norway in software production. and you will see that your selection is flawed and one-sided. She does not show anything, but acts only as a horror story for stupid and distrustful people. If you compare the growth dynamics of production of 4 ++ generation aircraft in Russia and China between 2008-2012, then Russia outstripped China by more than 400%. Why did it happen ? Because my sample is not indicative. And if we compare the growth of production of “lyubovovo” cookies in Russia and China over the past 10 years, then in this segment Russia has surpassed all countries of the world combined and they are unlikely to ever catch up with it.
            1. ism_ek
              ism_ek 4 February 2013 15: 50
              -5
              Quote: Gluxar_
              The state keeps the same amount of funds in foreign securities, at 2-2.5%, but without any notes, since these are mainly bonds

              Shorter than $ 600 billion. are kept in foreign banks and work for a foreign economy. This money is also invested in "shale projects"
              No one argues that reserves are needed, but China, creating reserves, sets tough conditions. "We buy euros - you build a car factory." China's gold reserves works for their economy.
              Whose financial condition the Russian gold and foreign exchange reserves are working for and how much money the modest teacher Kudrin uses to travel to Davos, one can only guess.
              1. nycsson
                nycsson 4 February 2013 18: 47
                -4
                Quote: ism_ek
                Shorter than $ 600 billion. are kept in foreign banks and work for a foreign economy. This money is also invested in "shale projects"

                Yes, the person is clearly not in the subject! Just amazed! request
                1. ism_ek
                  ism_ek 4 February 2013 21: 15
                  0
                  What is the gold reserves of Russia? For the most part, these are bonds issued by the US government and European countries.
                  Where are these bonds held? - In financial institutions in the USA and Europe.
                  Where does the US government spend money from selling us bonds? Including for subsidizing "shale projects".
              2. Gluxar_
                Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 20: 48
                +6
                Quote: ism_ek
                Shorter than $ 600 billion. are kept in foreign banks and work for a foreign economy. This money, among other things, is invested in "shale projects". Nobody disputes that reserves are needed, but China, creating reserves, sets tough conditions. "We buy euros - you build a car factory." China's gold reserves works for their economy. On whose financial condition the Russian gold and foreign exchange reserves work and how much money the modest teacher Kudrin uses to travel to Davos, one can only guess.

                The Russian Stabilization Fund ensures the sovereignty of the economy. I have already described this mechanism earlier. The Stabilization Fund does not exist as such, the former is divided into several funds. From this point on, the NWF starts investing in Russian infrastructure projects with an investment horizon of more than 20 years, and the pension fund money will also go there. The airbag allows you to effectively attract foreign investors, providing government guarantees, at the same time, the burden of risk lies with everyone, not just the state. The filling of various "highly specialized" state banks also took place at the expense of the initial stabilization fund. And these are our own sovereign support means for our manufacturer.

                Americans subsidize their shale projects by creating new debts and printing new money. The main carriers of their debts are China and Japan, as well as countries of Western Europe. Russia is also a United States donor, but to a much lesser extent, again, not for nothing.

                Factories are being built in China not because the Chinese want it that way, but because it is more profitable to produce there and you don’t have to bother with the environment.

                Americans really owe everything and this is not their advantage, but their ruin.
                1. ism_ek
                  ism_ek 4 February 2013 21: 19
                  -2
                  Quote: Gluxar_
                  The airbag allows you to effectively attract foreign investors, providing state guarantees, at the same time, the burden of risk lies with everyone, and not just with the state.

                  Explain to me why in 2012 the stabilization fund increased, and investors actively withdraw money from Russia.
                  1. Lankov Victor
                    Lankov Victor 5 February 2013 06: 16
                    +3
                    Sorry, but you are in the trap of changing the meaning of the word.
                    An investor invests in real production (for example, car factories in Kaluga) and just won’t leave.
                    An exchange speculator drives money all over the world, trying to weld.
                    But in the news, speculators are stubbornly called investors.
                  2. Gluxar_
                    Gluxar_ 7 February 2013 04: 42
                    +1
                    Quote: ism_ek
                    Explain to me why in 2012 the stabilization fund increased, and investors actively withdraw money from Russia.

                    And you look at the structure of capital outflows. Most of the money is payments on previously taken loans, the other part is investment in foreign assets. Then you will understand what's what.
            2. nycsson
              nycsson 4 February 2013 18: 46
              -6
              Quote: Gluxar_
              And if we compare the growth of production of “lyubovovo” cookies in Russia and China over the past 10 years, then in this segment Russia has surpassed all countries of the world combined and they are unlikely to ever catch up with it.

              Lovely cookies !!! laughing Have you seriously written or joked ??? laughing This is an indicator !!! wassat
            3. WADUHa
              WADUHa 4 February 2013 19: 17
              +1
              Rating "5" ....
            4. ism_ek
              ism_ek 4 February 2013 21: 35
              -1
              Quote: Gluxar_
              Or compare China and Switzerland in machine manufacturing over the same period. Or India and Norway in software production. and you will see that your selection is flawed and one-sided.

              In Switzerland there is no and there was no automobile industry. In China and Russia in the late 2000s, it was approximately at the same level.
              About software production in Norway, you missed the mark. Everything is all right there. Take Opera Company
            5. es.d
              es.d 10 February 2013 13: 36
              0
              Quote: Gluxar_
              As for China, compare not the absolute figures but the percentage dynamics of the main economic indicators and compare not with 2000, but with the 90th. Or compare China and Switzerland in car production over the same period. Or India and Norway in software production. and you will see that your selection is flawed and one-sided. She does not show anything, but acts only as a horror story for stupid and distrustful people. If you compare the growth dynamics of production of 4 ++ generation aircraft in Russia and China between 2008-2012, then Russia outstripped China by more than 400%. Why did it happen ? Because my sample is not indicative. And if we compare the growth of production of “lyubovovo” cookies in Russia and China over the past 10 years, then in this segment Russia has surpassed all countries of the world combined and they are unlikely to ever catch up with it.


              Bravo! The whole point of using "statistics" is "statisticians".
          2. ikrut
            ikrut 5 February 2013 22: 08
            +3
            Quote: ism_ek
            When Putin came to power, Russia and China produced approximately the same number of cars. Now China produces 20 million cars a year !!!

            The population of Russia is TEN times less than the population of China. The Russian market simply will not "eat" as many cars as China does. Production of passenger cars in Russia in 2012 amounted to about 2 million units, and in China - about 15 million. That is. per capita in Russia, about 40% more cars are produced than in China. Kagbe and not too bad. IMHO.
            1. Gluxar_
              Gluxar_ 7 February 2013 05: 03
              +2
              Quote: nycsson
              If this money had been invested in the construction of plants and factories, i.e. creating jobs, then no crisis would threaten us! And in general, with the right leadership, Russia is a country that does not face any crisis! Your brains are definitely out of place!

              For Russia, the problem of unemployment is not as acute as for the rest of the world, I would say we have problems with workers.
              It’s impossible to just build factories, they will invest huge money in them and they will quickly go out of business. Russia has a very small domestic market and is simply oversaturated. It is unprofitable and ruinous to create a new production only for oneself, and it is difficult or practically impossible to compete on equal terms with foreign megacorporations. moreover, this is not only a problem for Russia or the CIS countries. The USA and Europe are even worse off.
              Plants in Russia are regularly built and the most advanced in the world, but only in certain market segments, where there is either a unique product or there is no global competition. But such industries are not very noticeable, since they are not consumer goods like iPhones or similar goods. And the production of "magnetic inductors", "ventor accumulators", laser stabilizers or titanium blades for modern aircraft turbines has a limited market. As well as nuclear technology and much more.
              Oddly enough, but hopes in the consumer segment are still for small and medium-sized businesses. May not produce, but design new electronic devices for young Russians. And it is possible to produce both in Malaysia and in China, at least until there is real demand for technical parts inside the country. Then to build a ban on the production of microcircuits and processors will not be difficult. The most important thing is that there is sufficient demand for such products domestically and on the international market.
        3. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 18: 42
          -5
          Quote: Gluxar_
          So in Europe, gas is MUCH more expensive and gasoline is significantly more expensive. Europeans are fools? Strangle your economy?

          There are no oil and gas deposits in Europe! They buy energy from Russia and other exporting countries! You surprise me!!!
          Quote: Gluxar_
          The stabilization fund has long been gone, it is divided into the National Welfare Fund and a bunch of other funds with its own focus.

          Just do not la la! The stabilization fund is divided into two components!
          Quote: Gluxar_
          The essence of the stabilization fund itself lies not in the ephemeral accumulation of "extra money", but in the guarantee of the preservation of economic sovereignty in the event of bankruptcy of a number of branches of the Russian national economy.

          The essence of the stabilization fund is to support the American economy! fool
          Quote: Gluxar_
          It was such a strategy that made it possible to survive the crisis of 2008 and not only not to lose a significant part of the economy, but also to develop further.

          If this money had been invested in the construction of plants and factories, i.e. creating jobs, then no crisis would threaten us! And in general, with proper leadership, Russia is a country that does not face any crisis!
          Your brains are definitely out of place! hi
          1. El13
            El13 5 February 2013 00: 58
            0
            He thinks soberly enough, I do not say that the truth is the last resort, but reasonable arguments deserve attention, in addition to confirming the words
            Quote: Gluxar_
            In addition to objective factors such as "filling the economy with real production in relation to the invested funds", there are also subjective actions of the players who are not profitable for the restoration of sovereign Russia.

            I can add a question, where did the idea of ​​creating a national payment system like VISA or similar go, because it is profitable for us inside Russia?
            1. Gluxar_
              Gluxar_ 7 February 2013 05: 10
              +1
              Quote: El13
              I can add a question, where did the idea of ​​creating a national payment system like VISA or similar go, because it is profitable for us inside Russia?

              It has not gone anywhere, now it is being tested and modified. I read somewhere that the initial analysis gave depressing results, which is why adjustments are made. Penetration of MS and Visa is so wide and adapted that the creation of the same system is not economically justified. Some new competitive advantages are needed, otherwise it would not be economical to create such a system. Visa and Master Card are more competitive due to the mass effect. A system designed only for Russia or the CIS will cost the same and even more expensive, and profit will not overlap the cost of creation.
              However, they did not abandon the idea and continue to implement it, simply by more reasonable mechanisms. Tools such as a single travel card and social card can be links in one of this program. In addition, there are other payment technologies, for example, using mobile devices. And if the age of "mobility" is really coming, then the national system should be advanced, and not at the level of "plastic".
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 7 February 2013 04: 55
            0
            Quote: nycsson
            There are no oil and gas deposits in Europe! They buy energy from Russia and other exporting countries! You surprise me!!!

            You are talking nonsense. European TNCs operate around the world and also rip off the "savages". The same Norway extracts much more oil than Russia in terms of one citizen, but gasoline there costs under 80 rubles per liter.
            Just in each country its own economic system. The United States, for example, is robbing the world a lot, both in terms of resources and financially. They subsidize their economy through low energy prices. Although this doesn’t help a simple American, they form the budget due to high property taxes and high rates of trade and domestic consumption. Therefore, they cling to their consumer basket. They will not consume so much, there will be no budget. And it is important for them to consume through trade, moreover, it is not important that this product is produced. Such a system.
            In Russia, everything works differently. The state earns a lot from mineral extraction tax and duties on energy resources. The price of gas is a kind of luxury tax. The economy is subsidized differently than in the US or Europe, although this happens everywhere. There are direct subsidies and other mechanisms of financial support in Russia.
            In Europe, everything is completely different. In Saudi Arabia, gasoline cheaper water. In Libya, its own system was once.
            So it’s clumsy to judge that someone is crushing their economies either way or another. The Question needs to be better understood.
            In Russia, the refinery’s georgafia itself can push people to simply kick gasoline with neighboring countries if the state subsidizes its production and low prices. This happens, for example, in the south of our country in relation to Ukraine and not only. The government decided to take its own in the most easy-to-take and easily accounted area and take it substantially. Although this carries certain risks for the economy. But the cost of fuel in each individual product is not as great as you think. You can find information and understand that the problems are at the level of intermediaries, and not in the cost of fuel. In socially significant sectors and economically unstable ones like agricultural, fuel interventions are carried out and farmers get fuel at discounted prices. In general, I will not paint a lot. Want to find yourself.
    2. bootlegger
      bootlegger 4 February 2013 11: 19
      +4
      Quote: ism_ek
      The Americans have a simple calculation. Take money from the Russian stab. fund and provide its industry with cheap gas. Stifle Russian metallurgy with dumping. And as always "cut coupons".

      Very controversial thesis.
      How can dumping be carried out in metallurgy on gas, which by definition cannot be cheaper than traditional? Wells that require such sophisticated drilling technology and are able to work for a very limited time cannot produce gas at a cost lower than traditional.
      This is a financial bubble that will not only sooner or later burst, but will also undermine the operability of the traditional gas industry in the United States.
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 14: 10
        +2
        Quote: bootlegger
        A very controversial thesis: How can dumping be carried out in metallurgy on gas, which by definition cannot be cheaper than traditional? Wells that require such sophisticated drilling technology and are able to work for a very limited time cannot produce gas at a cost lower than traditional. This is a financial bubble that is not just sooner or later it will burst, but it will also undermine the operability of the traditional gas industry in the United States.

        You can always dump, even at a loss. The expectation is that you then get superprofits when you become a monopolist destroying your competitor.

        The fact that this bubble is very few doubts, the fact is that the United States is in despair and can risk everything, especially the future of its tingling. In any case, the United States needs to bring down energy prices, since the US trade deficit is largely affected by the high cost of purchased oil from abroad. And this is despite the fact that the United States buys oil much cheaper than all other countries in the world. If they raise the price of gasoline to the level of the developed countries of the world, then their economy, calculated on trade, will simply collapse in one part. If gasoline in the United States rises in price to at least 5-6 dollars per gallon, then everything will end ...
        1. bootlegger
          bootlegger 4 February 2013 15: 06
          +3
          Well, the transport component will neutralize the possibility of dumping in Europe. It is clear that no one is lucky in the United States smile but they don’t make much sense to sell it to Europe. Gazprom has the ability to manipulate prices much higher. Most likely, it will simply tighten the valve by another 5 percent and cancel all previous discounts. Surely they are written in the contracts as temporary.
          Americans must, for about 5 years, steadily drive cheap gas in industrial volumes to Europe, so that someone would refuse to contract.
          I doubt that there will be enough for them ...
          1. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 7 February 2013 05: 20
            +2
            I agree with your arguments. Moreover, Europe is now completely in no form to begin such megaprojects. Infrastructure is VERY expensive.
            And the most important thing. There is NO cheap shale gas. In the United States, its cheapness is subsidized by the state; the spot market has failed for a VERY short amount of time. Now the price is above 400 dollars per 1000 cubic meters.
            So that question has long been closed to all experts. however, there are economists. Europe is in the pope, it needs cheaper gas than there is today, otherwise they won’t win the competition and fail. then they will not buy gas at any price whatsoever.
            There is also politics, so the kings of the world do not want to depend on anyone. They put themselves in dependence in the 90s, when they plundered Russia and exported all resources for a penny. Under these resources and rebuilt their economy, because now they have become addicted.

            However, there are iron facts. if Germany abandons nuclear power, then more gas will be needed. If they still find money for the LNG project, then they are likely to lose the competition with China, since such investments will affect the cost of the final product. If you bet on Qatar, then this is a very unstable country and region, you can lose. there is a possibility of the appearance of fundamentally new energy technologies, then gas will recede into the background. There are many options. But there is only one ecology, those who, as always, will rush to their energy future without thinking about the consequences for tomorrow will lose most.
      2. es.d
        es.d 10 February 2013 13: 55
        0
        Why doesn’t anyone write about tax incentives and subsidies for shale gas in the United States? For example: 1) Intangible Drilling Costs ("intangible" drilling costs - the wages of workers during the drilling of a well, fuel costs, all sorts of consumables, rent payments, etc.) - all that is then physically impossible to "feel" when the well is ready, they have no resale value. There were costs, but they did not turn into any “piece of iron”. Incidentally, this includes “hydraulic fracturing fluids”. This amount is the first tax deduction - taxes paid by the company are immediately reduced by this amount. Interestingly, Intangible Drilling Costs is often translated as “unplanned drilling costs.” This is obviously not true. It is noted that the “intangible” drilling costs are 60-80% of all drilling costs.
        2) Intangible Completion Costs - in the same way, the “intangible” costs of arranging a well are deducted from taxes. This is about 15% of the total cost of drilling a well. Apply it to shale gas drilling - you get very decent tax deductions!
        3) Tax allowance for depreciation of property. Also applies to companies producing shale gas.
        4) The next tax deduction is Depletion Allowance: tax deduction from gross profit for depletion of natural resources. The share of gross income from a particular deposit or mineral extraction site, not subject to taxation. It ranges from 15% to 20%. That is, it extracted 100% of gas, the tax paid only for 75-80%.
        PS Sorry, Gluxar_ below has a topic repeat
    3. Papakiko
      Papakiko 4 February 2013 12: 19
      0
      Quote: ism_ek
      Russian metallurgists are building new facilities in the United States and Canada based on shale gas.

      Type metal from gas will be boiled? laughing good
      Cooking metal on coal is NOT ENVIRONMENTAL.
      On electricity, EXPENSIVE, BUT VERY "ENVIRONMENTAL".
      Maybe our metallurgists are building Heat-ElectoStations?
      But this is not in the plans of any of our metal holdings.
      How to connect shale gas with mettalurgs?
      1. ism_ek
        ism_ek 4 February 2013 14: 29
        -2
        Quote: Papakiko
        But this is not in the plans of any of our metallurgical holdings.

        The Pipe Metallurgical Company has opened a research center in the city of Houston (Texas, USA). The company’s press service told the federal business magazine “Business & Class” that the main divisions of the new center include a laboratory with a scanning electron microscope (SEM), a section with equipment for mechanical testing of products and tests for resistance to collapse, a laboratory for testing corrosion resistance, as well as section with equipment for testing threaded joints for various types of loads.

        October 2012 years

        http://www.bkgis.ru/news/metal/1199-tmk-ukreplyaet-pozicii-na-rynke-ssha.html
        http://www.tmk-group.com/ipsco.php
        1. Papakiko
          Papakiko 4 February 2013 15: 39
          +1
          Until 2008, our metallurgists bought a lot of non-liquid things in the "mattress".
          In order to survive in the acquired market, they need to play on THEIR conditions, which means investing in and reducing harmful emissions, etc. factors.
          Naturally jobs !!!
          Unlike us, the trade unions work in the "mattress"!
          If necessary, they can push the state to nationalize enterprises.
          Does our aligarchs need this?

          Here in Russia we need new technologies and new equipment.
          And without "licking under the tail" we will not see anything updated at home. hi
      2. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 15: 24
        +5
        Quote: Papakiko
        Like metal from gas will be boiled? Cooking metal on coal is NOT ENVIRONMENTAL. On electricity, IS EXPENSIVE, BUT VERY "ENVIRONMENTALLY"

        Gas is needed to melt ore into metal. In what form is not so important. The cost of gas (energy) in the cost of a metal sometimes exceeds 35%, depending on the conditions. Our holdings bought many blocks of shares of Canadian and American metal producers in the period 2008-2009. When such assets fell significantly. Today, when the USA subsidizes gas production and gas prices fell only in the USA and Canada, metallurgical companies have reduced their costs due to cheap energy sources, while metal prices are more stable. Hence came. nobody is building anything new. just bought when it was cheap.
      3. ism_ek
        ism_ek 4 February 2013 23: 12
        -2
        Quote: Papakiko
        Type metal from gas will be boiled?

        DRI method - direct metal reduction using natural gas.
        Allows you to get significantly more pure metal than when using a blast furnace.
        1. buga1979
          buga1979 5 February 2013 12: 13
          0
          So then in a blast furnace, cast iron is cooked as it is like a metallurgist, a metallurgist, I tell you well, and if there is a lot of gas in the metal industry, it’s
          1. ism_ek
            ism_ek 5 February 2013 15: 32
            0
            And cast iron is not metal ...?
            In modern blast furnaces, coal is used to reduce iron from ore, which leads to clogging of the metal with sulfur and phosphorus, which are found in large quantities in coal. With further processing of cast iron, non-metallic inclusions obtained in the blast furnace cannot be completely eliminated. Sulfur and phosphorus significantly impair the mechanical properties of the metal.
            Direct reduction of iron from ore by natural gas allows to obtain much cleaner iron with better mechanical properties.
    4. Perch_xnumx
      Perch_xnumx 4 February 2013 12: 27
      +4
      The US industry now receives gas at prices 2 ... 3 times lower than Russian. Russian metallurgists are building new facilities in the United States and Canada based on shale gas.
      At what prices do Russian consumers get gas? What is the cost of shale gas production?
      Shale wells are unstable, let’s say it gives gas and then - everything, you need to drill the next one, so you need a constant flow of investment, constantly drill new wells. Many wells are drilled in hard-to-reach places where equipment can only be transferred in winter, there are no pipelines or other delivery methods, and here they are - drilled wells in the Canadian Arctic tundra.
      Shale gas is not a panacea, but it looks like another investment bubble, at least halfway.
      The easiest way, of course, is to those companies, not far from the development of which there are pipelines and plants for the processing of produced gas.
      And where they do not need to build factories and pipelines.
      Hence the hysteria, how good is shale gas, so gentlemen, investors take the money and give us to our expensive projects.
    5. valokordin
      valokordin 4 February 2013 13: 10
      -2
      Quote: ism_ek

      Is oil and gas production in the Arctic not a scam?
      Gas pipelines from the USSR to Europe also seemed a scam.
      The US industry now receives gas at prices 2 ... 3 times lower than Russian. Russian metallurgists are building new facilities in the United States and Canada based on shale gas.

      A good comment, if our gas generals and emperors were thinking about how to help their people, their economy, and not how to download gas abroad and earn dollars and invest in the American economy, it would be a different matter. The technology does not stand still, and Europe would not begin to pump billions of euros into Ukraine, only to annoy Russia.
      1. El13
        El13 4 February 2013 14: 46
        +1
        valokordin,
        how would it become, it is very profitable, only you need to think strategically (geopolitically) ... a few yards of "paper" or the creation of a strategic competitor with its own independent policy ... think what would you choose with a "printing press".
    6. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 13: 36
      +7
      Quote: ism_ek
      And oil and gas production in the Arctic is not a scam? Gas pipelines from the USSR to Europe also seemed a scam. The US industry now receives gas at prices 2 ... 3 times lower than Russian.

      This is a typical American bike. Although part of it is true, you just need to understand the structure of economic systems. The main payer to the budget of the Russian Federation is just Gazprom and the growth of its revenues increases the growth of budget revenues. In the United States, the state of affairs is paying extra to its energy companies to supply raw materials not at market prices, but at lower prices, for their industrial enterprises, which, in turn, remain afloat and do not fire their workers, who would fill up the army unemployed in the USA. It’s just that the media again was not ordered to write about it, although the United States simply gives the national money to its oligarchs so that they do not fire workers and they do not rebel from hunger. It’s just that the mechanisms are not direct investments, as it was in the Russian Federation in 2008-2009, but through subsidies with cheap energy resources, like cheap gas, and cheap gas there.
      But such a system is possible only when you can plunder foreign countries and receive oil in exchange for empty paper. Today, everything is heading towards the collapse of such a system. So look at the essence of the questions if you make such comments.

      Quote: ism_ek
      Russian metallurgists are building new facilities in the United States and Canada based on shale gas.

      This is also not true. Russian TNCs entered the US and Canadian markets back in 2009, when the crisis was raging all over the world and assets fell 3-4 times. Then I remember there were many shouts in the media that Russians are investing in the United States when everything is falling at home. Time has put everything in its place, as a result, Russian citizens received a significant piece of the American pie for a penny in the crisis year, and today they receive huge profits thanks to subsidies from the US government in energy policy. Today, more than one "Russian dollar" does not go to the United States, and all projects are financed under the projects of 2008-2010. Today, everything is already expensive and the owners are beginning to slowly withdraw from these projects, I predict a new failure in the United States. It's just a business, buy low and sell high. Build a business at home for the difference.
      1. ism_ek
        ism_ek 4 February 2013 21: 28
        -1
        Quote: Gluxar_
        In the United States, the situation is different, where the state pays extra money to its energy companies to supply raw materials not at market prices, but at lower prices for their industrial enterprises

        And the Russian government pays extra to Rosneft to extract oil in remote regions of Eastern Siberia and sell it at dumping prices to China
        1. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 7 February 2013 05: 24
          0
          Quote: ism_ek
          And the Russian government pays extra to Rosneft to extract oil in remote regions of Eastern Siberia and sell it at dumping prices to China

          Of course. More precisely, it does not pay extra, but gives benefits. Since the development of new and hard-to-reach deposits is very expensive. After all, the pioneer must create the infrastructure and technology. After 5 years, tax holidays will end. and the field will work for decades.
    7. ikrut
      ikrut 5 February 2013 21: 59
      +2
      Quote: ism_ek
      Russian metallurgists are building new facilities in the United States and Canada based on shale gas.

      Quote: ism_ek
      Americans are building new plants.

      If it does not make it very difficult - a couple of examples about new Russian "capacities" in the USA and Canada and also about "new American plants". Really interesting. Not even links, so as not to find it difficult. Just names. And I'll look for it myself.
  • fktrcfylh.h09
    fktrcfylh.h09 4 February 2013 11: 00
    +4
    7 trillion explored gas = 15% that can be extracted = 1 gas in cubic meters = it can only be produced, really less is produced, if Ukraine consumes at least 050 cubic meters of gas annually, as if this gas could be enough for 000 years, but using Chinese calculations (not refuted by any country), we get what is required to invest about 000 billion US dollars to get this gas, this arithmetic turned out

    in the first stages, this is about 5 years, one meter of cubic gas will cost about 1 US dollar, it is twice as much as current prices, and production will begin only after 2017-2019, by the way some of the fields will have to be removed from agricultural land, this is about 2-3 million hectares ...
  • ochakow703
    ochakow703 4 February 2013 11: 05
    +1
    So they chose Ukraine as a "colony". It's a pity they are not bad guys in principle ...
    1. Yoshkin Kot
      Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 11: 50
      +1
      the trouble is that the Russian lands will be destroyed, not in Galicia
      1. Skavron
        Skavron 4 February 2013 13: 25
        0
        Quote: Yoshkin Cat
        the trouble is that the Russian lands will be destroyed, not in Galicia

        If I am not mistaken, then Galichin too.
        1. WADUHa
          WADUHa 4 February 2013 19: 22
          +1
          It is a pity for the Ukrainian brothers ...... States shale in the deserts are mined, but in Ukraine allotted places are densely populated ....
  • Yoshkin Kot
    Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 11: 47
    +1
    overseas heifer half, yes rupe transport wassat
  • maksman
    maksman 4 February 2013 15: 26
    +2
    History does not teach them anything. Any war against Russia will be lost!
  • albert
    albert 4 February 2013 17: 50
    +3
    Perhaps the shale revolution is just as bluffing as the Reagan SOI program.
  • IRBIS
    IRBIS 4 February 2013 09: 20
    +5
    The purpose of the "gestures" of the States is very clear: to sow all a grain of doubt about the need for Russian gas and instill "confidence" in their own energy security to those who have this very security in question. The cost of the issue is so high that the future consequences and troubles do not interest them at all.
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 02
      -2
      Ukraine is exploring the possibility of purchasing liquefied natural gas from Qatar. This was announced by the head of the Ukrainian government Mykola Azarov during a visit to the Qatari company RasGas as part of an official visit to Qatar.
              "Cooperation with the state, which accounts for a third of the world production of liquefied gas (Qatar), is extremely important for us," the head of government stressed.
              Azarov noted that now the cost of Qatari gas, taking into account delivery, is three times cheaper than Russian. He added that Ukraine will use the Qatari experience in the construction of an LNG terminal for receiving liquefied gas in the Odessa region. “There are interesting technological developments in Qatar,” the prime minister said.
      1. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 11: 51
        +2
        yes, no problem, only the people of Istanbul scream with impatience when giant gas carriers pass through their city wassat
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 12: 44
          -4
          Quote: Yoshkin Cat
          only here are the people of Istanbul screaming with impatience when the giant gas carriers pass through their city

          Yes, let them even squeal, who will ask them, these residents of Istanbul?
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 13
            +2
            they will ask the government, do you even imagine if the gas carrier is fucking, the same Kurds? right zafigarit thermobolic ammunition? or having obtained something serious from Gaddafi’s arsenals?
      2. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 14: 37
        +14
        Quote: nycsson
            Azarov noted that now the cost of Qatari gas, taking into account delivery, is three times cheaper than Russian.

        I already understand the activity of this user, therefore I do not call him to prudence in my posts. just answer some facts.

        According to the International Energy Agency, in 2011 LNG production capacity in the world reached 270 million tons per year. After the commissioning of all 2011 gas liquefaction plants built under the Ras Laffan project in early 14, their combined capacity reached 77 million tons per year.
        When Qatar is compared with Russia in terms of production, they do not say that Qatar occupies a third only in the LNG market, while Russia mainly supplies pipeline gas. The difference is obvious.
        Further, the price collapse for LNG occurred in 2008-2009. due to a sharp expansion of shale gas production in the United States, because of which the country practically refused to import liquefied gas.

        Nigeria, Trinidad, Equatorial Guinea, the same Qatar, which hoped to conclude long-term contracts with American buyers, were forced to sell their gas to those who agreed to buy it, on the spot market and at minimal prices.

        However, a reasonable question arises: why did the fall in LNG prices affect only the US and European markets? East Asian countries still buy it at very high prices. In April 2012, the average cost of LNG in India, Japan and Korea was about $ 15-17 per 1 million BTUs, i.e. $ 545-617 per 1 thousand cubic meters (excluding the costs of regasification), while in the UK prices were at the level of $ 270-280 per 1 thousand cubic meters.
        That is, Russian gas for Ukraine costs $ 840-1800 per 1 thousand cubic meters. ? Something seems to me that someone is lying in their assessments. Plus the price of degassing is another $ 20-40 per 1 thousand cubic meters. And this is the cost of gas only at the station; it still needs to be delivered to the consumer. And you also need to add the cost of delivery by tanker, and here it’s how much it costs.
        Tariffs for gas carrier freight reached record heights at the beginning of 2012 - $ 140-150 thousand per day.

        Because of this, transportation costs account for 15-35% of the price of gas delivered to the LNG terminal, and it is profitable to use them only on relatively short routes. It is simply not profitable to carry "cheap" liquefied gas from the Atlantic to Japan, since it will become "gold" due to high freight costs.
        Qatar is an exception in this regard. Qatar Gas Transport Company is the largest LNG supply operator in the world (although the American ExxonMobil is the largest shareholder in Qatari gas enterprises).
        With such opportunities, it is Qatar that often dictates gas prices to consumers. Moreover, in recent years he has developed a reputation as a very greedy and intractable seller.
        In the past two months alone, Qatar has become a participant in two price conflicts in the LNG market. India, which annually acquires 7.5 million tons of Qatari liquefied natural gas and is negotiating a doubling of this volume, rejected Qatar’s offer in early April to supply 5 million tons of LNG per year at prices linked to the price of Brent oil. As indignant Indian representatives said, at a price of oil at $ 110 / bar, the Qatari wanted to get about $ 575 per 1 cubic meters for their gas, without taking into account the cost of delivery.
        In particular, Poland, which is already building its LNG terminal in the Baltic, in the summer of 2009 signed a 20-year contract with Qatargas on the supply of 1 million tons of liquefied natural gas per year. According to the Ministry of Finance of Poland, the cost of gas will be about $ 550 million per year, i.e. almost $ 400 per 1 thousand cubic meters excluding the costs of regasification.

        Someone else will write something on the topic of LNG or the Shale Revolution?
        1. Papakiko
          Papakiko 4 February 2013 15: 43
          0
          Krasava.
          Shake your hand! +
        2. Yura
          Yura 4 February 2013 17: 54
          0
          Gluxar_, reasonedly, convincingly. Fine!
        3. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 03
          -2
          Quote: Gluxar_
          I already understand the activity of this user, therefore I do not call him to prudence in my posts. just answer some facts.

          You don’t understand anything! We will wait and see who was right.
          Quote: Gluxar_
          Tariffs for gas carrier freight reached record heights at the beginning of 2012 - $ 140-150 thousand per day.

          But do not they have their own gas carriers?
          Quote: Gluxar_
          According to the Ministry of Finance of Poland, the cost of gas will be about $ 550 million per year, i.e. almost $ 400 per 1 thousand cubic meters excluding the costs of regasification.

          And I read that this gas costs $ 140 per TCM!
          Quote: Gluxar_
          Someone else will write something on the topic of LNG or the Shale Revolution?

          Firstly, not modest! And secondly, read here with a link .....

          KIEV, November 26. / ITAR-TASS /. Ukraine expects to exchange its wheat for cheap gas from Qatar. Taking into account the delivery, it will cost Kiev three times cheaper - about $ 140 against 430 per thousand cubic meters of Russian gas. This was reported on Monday by the Kiev newspaper Segodnya, citing a source in the government. President Viktor Yanukovych arrived today on a visit to the United Arab Emirates, after which he will go to Qatar.

          Liquefied gas is one of Qatar's main export products, which ranks third in the world in its production, the newspaper recalls.

          In May of this year, it became known that Qatar was ready to sell liquefied gas to the Ukrainians, but there was nowhere to deliver it. The ceremony to begin the construction of a gas terminal near Odessa will be held today.

          There is a steady demand for wheat in the Persian Gulf, the exporter of which is Ukraine. According to the source, "grain will be one of the main elements of bargaining with Qatar, which is allegedly ready to sell liquefied gas as quickly as possible." To speed up this process, Ukraine plans at the first stage to lease a floating terminal from one of the American companies, which will be used until the construction of a stationary regasification terminal / conversion of liquefied natural gas from a liquid to a gaseous state, an LNG terminal /.
          The annual volumes of gas reception at the floating terminal are two times less than at the stationary one - 5 and 10 billion cubic meters of gas, respectively.

          http://www.itar-tass.com/c16/581616.html

          And all that you wrote is the bullshit of the mare! hi
          1. El13
            El13 5 February 2013 01: 10
            +1
            Quote: nycsson
            KIEV, November 26. / ITAR-TASS /.
            ...
            The ceremony to begin the construction of a gas terminal near Odessa will be held today.

            Held?
            Quote: nycsson
            Ukraine plans to lease a floating terminal from one of the American companies at the first stage

            Rented?
            Quote: nycsson
            But do not they have their own gas carriers?

            Do your gas carriers work absolutely free?
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 5 February 2013 15: 05
              0
              Quote: El13
              Do your gas carriers work absolutely free?

              Of course not, but it's much cheaper than hiring from the outside!
              1. El13
                El13 6 February 2013 12: 29
                0
                I do not presume to say with 100% probability, but, IMHO, the difference is not too big (I think, not even at times), otherwise additional players would have broken into this area.

                PS And with the first two questions what?
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 7 February 2013 05: 31
            0
            Quote: nycsson
            But do not they have their own gas carriers?

            Qatar has its own tanker fleet. But the whole point is that Qatar has just invested in its fleet and plants, but there is no demand. Somehow he needs to beat money, so he beats them through freight. Do you think Ukraine is so special that not only Russia, but Qatar now gives money for free. So then it is easier to ask for several tens of billions of dollars in subsidies per year and calmly throw this money for Muscovites in the face for their totalitarian gas.
            Quote: nycsson
            And I read that this gas costs $ 140 per TCM!

            Well, you could read a lot of things, for example, the fact that Ukraine produces helium-3 on the moon and builds a cold fusion reactor for this fuel.
            However, the real facts are still different.
        4. Quit
          Quit 5 February 2013 01: 48
          0
          Gluxar_,

          How presumptuous you are, however))) Thank you, of course, for reposting the well-known Internet article from a year ago "The myth of the" cheap "Qatari gas", although, for the sake of decency, they could have cited a source. The official Russian government, by the way, more than He is already taking the situation with global changes in the gas market seriously. You can read the latest report of the Minister of Energy of the Russian Federation A. Novak in Munich at the security conference http://hvylya.org/analytics/economics/rossiya-ofitsialno-priznala-slantsevyiy-ga
          z-strategicheskoy-ugrozoy-svoim-interesam.html. Read what Novatek, the largest private concern in the Russian oil and gas market, says: http://www.vedomosti.ru/library/news/4246631/leonid_mihelson?full#cut. Very intelligent people, I recommend for general development and disillusionment.
    2. Sergh
      Sergh 4 February 2013 10: 03
      +4
      Quote: IRBIS
      the impending consequences and troubles absolutely do not interest them.

      What a shabby country America, not all the people of course, but the first impression is created about the actions of the leadership. Just vile, greedy and deceitful.
      1. El13
        El13 4 February 2013 14: 53
        +2
        As E. Fedorov said, nobody cares who is at the helm, the whole nation is to blame ... Like the Nazis in the Second World War, and not just Hitler.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 4 February 2013 20: 07
          +1
          The wood grouse is just a giant, I’ll go study for another ten years, otherwise I’m ashamed.)))
  • ShturmKGB
    ShturmKGB 4 February 2013 09: 25
    0
    And there is the Qatari direction of the gas war ...
  • sergo0000
    sergo0000 4 February 2013 09: 32
    +2
    Ukraine is no exception. The Baltic states are not in the best position. The price of friendship is very expensive

    West with an iron hand imposes exploration of shale deposits !!!

    In the Baltics, this is done by the Swedish Tethys Oil, which is listed on the stock list of the most successful Swedish and Danish companies First North. Tethys obtained three exploration licenses in Lithuania, and in October it became known that one of the licenses was purchased by the second largest American oil company Chevron. Hydraulic fracturing has split the European Parliament Shale gas and shale oil production has split the EU. The proposal to completely ban the hydraulic fracturing technology in the EU by voting was not accepted and rejected with the wording that member countries themselves should decide whether to use this method or not. Hide newzz.in.ua/mir/1148892469-zapad-...
    1. Kaa
      Kaa 4 February 2013 09: 56
      +15
      Quote: sergo0000
      Ukraine is no exception

      For Ukraine, this is, as always, cut and rollback. A word to experts.
      "To understand how Ukraine is ready to switch to alternative gas sources and how it could be possible to reduce its consumption in principle, let us turn to experts: energy expert, Deputy Director of the Psyche Scientific and Technical Center Gennady Ryabtsev and independent energy expert Vladimir Saprykin, Ukraine remains the only state on the European continent that believes that for the sake of it, for the sake of the Slavic brotherhood or any other political idea, Russia will reduce the price of gas. Now about one dollar of GDP is consumed per kilowatt-hour of energy consumed in Ukraine. Whereas in Poland - four, and in Germany - five. Regarding the differences in the specific gas consumption of GDP, the gap here is generally striking. The specific gas consumption of Ukrainian GDP is twenty times higher than that of Germany, and this gas consumption is the largest in the world. Poland consumes no more than 25 billion cubic meters of gas. That is, almost as much as our country produces its own resource. Only in Ukraine there is no development strategy for both the economy and energy. Only Ukraine plans to increase energy consumption by 2030, and not increase energy efficiency and not reduce the gas consumption of the economy. Only in Ukraine there is no state information policy. Therefore, it loses to Russia all the information wars. there are detailed proposals of the Institute of Economics and Forecasting of the National Academy of Sciences, the Institute of Gas, the Institute of Technical Thermophysics, which are precisely aimed at reducing energy consumption by about a third during at least the first few seasons. There are such programs, but for some reason they are not in demand by anyone. Only in Ukraine the wrong priorities for energy development have been set. The first point is the development of nuclear energy, the second is the development of the gas industry, and only the third point is the issue of energy conservation and energy efficiency in the Ukrainian economy. With regard to the possibility of producing in Ukraine about ten billion cubic meters of shale gas, Gennady Ryabtsev gives the following calculations: 10 billion cubic meters of shale gas is 3000 wells, each of them must undergo from 3 to 10 hydraulic fractures (local earthquakes of magnitude two to three points ) A simple calculation gives a figure in 30 000 (!) Earthquakes per year. In addition, 10 billion cubic meters of gas is 80 million cubic meters of water, there is no such amount of free water either in the Carpathians or in the Dnieper-Donets depression in the Donetsk region. Based on all this, there is only one conclusion: shale gas production in Ukraine is a projection, no more. However, everything related to shale gas production lies in the field of interests of individual officials who hope to raise funds for these unrealistic projects, some of which, of course, will go into the pocket of these same officials.http://odnarodyna.com.ua/content/dobycha-slancevogo-gaza-v-ukraine-utopiya-ili-r


      ealnost
      1. Papakiko
        Papakiko 4 February 2013 15: 45
        +1
        You have splendid "paints" senor, it is better to "paint"!
        Send only to QATAR. wink
    2. Yoshkin Kot
      Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 11: 53
      +2
      Yes, they are in FIG this geological exploration, or rather the wiring is not needed, they need to come up with the next mriyu so that the inhabitants of ukroin and the Baltic states would believe in an emergency laughing
      this topic will fall apart, come up with a new wassat
      not the first time
  • Pula
    Pula 4 February 2013 09: 39
    +1
    Amer is always a gas shale. And let them scratch their breasts with an iron fork ...
  • Kubatai
    Kubatai 4 February 2013 09: 39
    +1
    There was an article in which it was argued that shale gas in the United States became competitive only thanks to state sponsorship in the region of a third of all expenses for its production, which seems to hint ...
    PS The map at the beginning of the article is kind of tricky .. The campaign on it shows the areas where shale was not searched or decided not to show reserves in these territories (which is almost all of Africa and Russia), which is again suspicious ..
    1. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 14: 42
      +2
      Quote: Kubatai
      There was an article in which it was argued that shale gas in the United States became competitive only thanks to state sponsorship in the region of a third of all expenses for its production, which seems to hint ... PS The map at the beginning of the article is kind of tricky .. The campaign on it is light gray on it indicates territories where oil shale was not sought or decided not to show reserves in these territories (which is almost all of Africa and Russia), which is again suspicious ..

      In addition to subsidizing production, tax holidays were introduced, but despite all this, by the beginning of 2012, all the largest shale gas producers in the United States were on the verge of bankruptcy and asked for more money from the government.
  • Tsoi is alive
    Tsoi is alive 4 February 2013 09: 41
    +7
    Shale gas: there will be no revolution
    28.01.13 10:09
    Today, many gas shale companies have recognized that the declared reserves of shale gas deposits are overstated and not so optimistic. Thus, according to the annual report of the Energy Information Administration (EIA), the volume of US shale gas reserves in 2011 is 72 trillion. cube m, of which technically recoverable reserves - 24 trillion. cbm According to their estimates, the global volume of shale gas exceeds 187 trillion. cbm At the same time, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA), based on Cedigaz research, unconventional gas reserves account for only 4% of proven natural gas reserves.

    The prime cost of its production, according to different companies, ranges from $ 100-280 per thousand cubic meters. For comparison, the average cost of gas production by Gazprom is about $ 20. In addition, unlike a conventional gas field, where about 80% of reserves can be extracted, no more than 20% of shale gas can be extracted. Thus, the cheapest shale gas in terms of production costs is several times more expensive than the gas produced by Gazprom.
    Shale gas production is an expensive and environmentally hazardous process. For its extraction, it is necessary to use special reagents, the components of which are up to 500 chemical compounds and substances. Gas also needs to be refined - and this is a huge cost for filters and the like equipment.
    1. Papakiko
      Papakiko 4 February 2013 10: 02
      +1
      The main MULTI-BURNER, the rest is in meat or in manure. wink
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 14: 44
        +1
        Quote: Papakiko
        The main MULTI-BURNER, the rest is in meat or in manure.

        Such a policy has failed. People no longer believe in this. In this case, they themselves by their lies hammer the last nails into their own coffins.
    2. rolik
      rolik 4 February 2013 11: 36
      +3
      Quote: Choi is alive
      Tsoi is alive

      Well, let the amers host the ecology and ruin it, the non-square one will follow them. There are no brains of your own, you can’t insert strangers. Well, we already started to put pressure on mattresses, refused to buy meat, left the agreement on counteracting drugs, now we would still start to withdraw money from there and switch from the dollar to other currencies. But it will only be after a kick in the ass plush.
  • Krsk
    Krsk 4 February 2013 09: 42
    +3
    Yanukovych will be able to produce gas, disadvantageous to Putin, and thereby forever enter the annals of history as a politician who forever removed Ukraine from Russian energy dependence ...


    Having destroyed the nation ??? Why is he doing this?
    1. Tsoi is alive
      Tsoi is alive 4 February 2013 09: 48
      +5
      Quote: KrSk
      Having destroyed the nation ??? Why is he doing this?

      He will not destroy the nation, but he will have to buy water from Russia!
      Another unpleasant moment for Washington came from American environmentalists. It turned out that the technology that companies are using to produce shale gas causes enormous damage to the environment. In particular, the essence of the issue rests on the so-called hydraulic fracturing. This technology, according to the "green", leads to the fact that the water that is used for drinking and domestic needs, get a variety of impurities that can hardly be called useful: toluene, ethylbenzene, etc.
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 4 February 2013 09: 55
        +12
        Quote: Choi is alive
        He will not destroy the nation, but he will have to buy water from Russia!

        No. In Russia, the water is totalitarian and imperial. Let the water be bought in the USA, it is democratic there and most likely it will be "cheaper".
        1. Tsoi is alive
          Tsoi is alive 4 February 2013 10: 10
          +7
          Quote: ATATA
          In Russia, water is totalitarian and imperial.

          So the gas was the same, after all bought nothing! laughing
          Or do you think there were democratic filters? request
      2. botur
        botur 4 February 2013 10: 20
        +2
        Quote: Choi is alive
        He will not destroy the nation, but he will have to buy water from Russia!

        You’ll become something like a kid. lol
    2. sergo0000
      sergo0000 4 February 2013 12: 08
      +2
      Krsk,
      Having destroyed the nation ??? Why is he doing this?


      He ruins his nation, what is it !? winked He destroys the Slavic, as directed by relatives from Israel and the Jewish lobby in the US Congress.
      1. Tsoi is alive
        Tsoi is alive 4 February 2013 14: 28
        0
        yvaprolge
        evaprol
      2. Kaa
        Kaa 4 February 2013 16: 12
        +3
        Quote: sergo0000
        as directed by relatives from Israel and the Jewish lobby in the US Congress.

        Well, he has no relatives in Israel, only Belarus and someone very distant ancestor in Poland, but it's hard to argue about the lobby in the Congress, although there, at the suggestion of his comrades-in-arms, the "lady with the scythe" hate him with quiet hatred. Money, money is easy to cut down, and the "dons" are such guys that they will throw Americans and do not frown ... laughing
        1. sergo0000
          sergo0000 4 February 2013 19: 46
          +1
          Quote: Kaa
          Well, he has no relatives in Israel

          Who knows, how to know! Crypto Jews in the government disguise themselves very carefully, uv.KAA! bully
  • pa_nik
    pa_nik 4 February 2013 09: 49
    +1
    Gas War - Ok. Do gas. But for clean water, say, for $ 20 per liter - please, come to us ... Not ... not enough, for $ 30 or $ 100 ... we are "on the market" wassat
    1. bdolah
      bdolah 4 February 2013 10: 14
      +1
      By the way, I can already please: Chukotka sells clean snow to the Americans for the restaurant business. And in huge quantities, believe me - this is not a joke, just during the withdrawal of the army and the removal of weapons from Chukotka in the early 2000s, I happened to see this with my own eyes.
      1. Nechai
        Nechai 4 February 2013 11: 12
        0
        Quote: bdolah
        during the withdrawal of the army and the export of weapons from Chukotka in the early 2000s, I happened to see this with my own eyes.

        Right! Preparations have begun for the creation of "Berengini", and now the establishment of this AMERICAN-Russian National Park has been announced loudly. Only here the amers did not take out anything from Alaska or from the Aleutian Islands, the entire infrastructure was preserved, maintained in working order. Yes, the l / s and the wings have been reduced in quantity, according to their own understanding, to a sufficient level. After all, they are now the ONLY in that region with real military power. Suffice it to say that ALL F-22s are based with them in this region ... Passage to the Arctic Ocean through the Berenga Strait under their national control. They rub in on us, sho the ice is melting, navigation along the northern sea route will be year-round - aha, under the control of Washington!
        1. bdolah
          bdolah 4 February 2013 12: 23
          +1
          There was one more background: promising diamond deposits were located on the territory of the Moscow Region, and it was impossible to rob uncontrollably.
    2. nycsson
      nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 19
      +1
      Quote: pa_nik
      Gas War - Ok. Do gas. But for clean water, say, for $ 20 per liter - please, come to us ... Not ... not enough, for $ 30 or $ 100 ... we are "on the market"

      Developed countries have enough of their own water, but developing countries do not give a damn, or rather, it will be very good for developed countries if developing nations die of thirst and hunger! Habitat crisis, nothing personal!
    3. Kaa
      Kaa 4 February 2013 16: 23
      +4
      Quote: pa_nik
      But for clean water, say, at $ 20 per liter - please contact us
      Come, come, bargain. But seriously, it will end up in production of a pair of other gas cubes, they will further say that it is unprofitable and will end up joining the Customs Union. It’s only that people need to be demonized, so that they come to their senses and understand that without a vehicle it’s a complete Arctic fox, and half of the population has garbage in their heads that the EU will love them and will take them as equals. Yes, our oligarchs and yours need time to agree who will steer where. So I, unlike some of my compatriots, am optimistic about the common future. This year, it will be necessary to repay a lot of debts - people will come back to their senses, already now they began to subdue from the lawlessness of tax officers and officials ... Give only a term (someone has real ones, experience has already been gained, they were previously untouchable, as they were nice), which doesn’t hurt your stools or anything else ... good
  • demon ada
    demon ada 4 February 2013 09: 49
    +1
    read the technique of youth for 7X some year
    paragraph about Poland.
    the Polish Republic, among other things, produced shale gas,
    what technology was used is silent but the very fact of shale gas production in the 70s (and industrial production).
    the idea is not new, but for such a time it could not be realized on a global scale, it says something.
    and in the near future I don’t think that GAZPROM will have competitors,
    the system is up and running.
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 4 February 2013 14: 17
      +3
      demon ada,
      What is silent there, both in Poland, and here in Estonia and in the Leningrad Region, shale gas was produced by the pyrolysis method, I don’t want the enemy to live in production places, many times worse than in cement production hi
  • kukuruzo
    kukuruzo 4 February 2013 09: 53
    +1
    what ambitions they have ... these double standards, these super people ... Russia, the bloody energy teran of the United States. In the struggle for peace, it burns the whole East in the fire of war, capturing more and more resources, doing it openly. ..Now it's shale gas
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 16
      -6
      I recommend reading this article:

      Bankruptcy of the “national treasure”, or For Russia, for Putin, for Gazprom!
      Alexander Karpets 16
      http://warfiles.ru/show-15587-bankrotstvo-nacionalnogo-dostoyaniya-ili-za-rossiy
      u-za-putina-za-gazprom.html
      In the life of the Russian gas monopolist, a black streak began. As previously reported, the European Union has launched an antitrust investigation against Gazprom on suspicion of abuse in the markets of several EU countries and in obstructing competition. But much more serious problems for the "national treasure", as Gazprom was dubbed in Russia, entail a decline in the competitiveness of the corporation and a steady decline in Europe's consumption of Russian gas. This causes an increasingly nervous reaction in Russia.
      1. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 14
        +3
        you remind me of Svidomo, with his habit of waiting for Russia to come kapets! wassat
        1. morpex
          morpex 4 February 2013 14: 05
          -3
          The direct threat to the Russian gas giant from the development of shale gas fields in Europe has not yet appeared. Progress has not been in line with optimistic forecasts made several years ago due to government-imposed moratoriums on hydraulic fracturing, environmental resistance and complex geological structures. But serious, albeit indirect, consequences for Gazprom are entailed by the North American boom in shale gas production, which has been going on for a decade. An intelligent response from Moscow would be to unbundle Gazprom and allow various companies to compete for gas supplies to Europe. This would reduce opportunities Russia has used gas for political ends, but has put the gas industry in a better legal and commercial position to compete in the free European market. Unfortunately for Gazprom's minority shareholders, the management of the concern and the Kremlin tend to prioritize political posturing over commercial considerations.
          1. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 15: 38
            +3
            Quote: morpex
            The direct threat to the Russian gas giant from the development of shale gas fields in Europe has not yet appeared. Progress has not been in line with optimistic forecasts made several years ago due to government-imposed moratoriums on hydraulic fracturing, environmental resistance and complex geological structures. But serious, albeit indirect, consequences for Gazprom are entailed by the North American boom in shale gas production, which has been going on for a decade. An intelligent response from Moscow would be to unbundle Gazprom and allow various companies to compete for gas supplies to Europe. This would reduce opportunities Russia has used gas for political ends, but has put the gas industry in a better legal and commercial position to compete in the free European market. Unfortunately for Gazprom's minority shareholders, the management of the concern and the Kremlin tend to prioritize political posturing over commercial considerations.

            What stupid nonsense? In order for Gazprom to win, you need to divide it into several small companies that quickly get bogged down and bought one and one chevron? I’m thinking that in order to overcome the crisis, the United States needs to rape into 50 small states and compete on equal terms with Mozambique and Liberia, then it will be their happiness.
            1. morpex
              morpex 4 February 2013 22: 47
              -4
              In your opinion, Capercaillie, if a person has views on this problem that are contrary to yours, is that nonsense? Is your own opinion the most correct? March, left march, right?
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 4 February 2013 22: 56
            +3
            Quote: morpex
            A smart answer from Moscow would be to downsize Gazprom and allow various companies to compete for gas supplies to Europe

            ... along a common pipe. Or is it also disaggregated into a bunch of thin ones? laughing The entire planet is moving towards globalization, the largest industrial monsters are merging into supranational concerns, and the "Russian pie" must be cut into pieces. Otherwise it is inconvenient to swallow ... laughing Immediately I remember the classic answer about "look for a sucker in the mirror" lol
            1. morpex
              morpex 5 February 2013 19: 59
              -1
              Misantrop,

              .. along a common pipe. Or to break it down into a bunch of thin ones too? The entire planet is moving towards globalization, the largest industrial monsters are merging into supranational concerns, and the "Russian pie" must be cut into pieces. And then it is inconvenient to swallow ... Immediately I remember the classic answer about "looking for a sucker in the mirror."

              Globalization? well .... Well, the soap bubble that will ever burst. She, this globalization. and leads to such crises, which have just begun. The way out of this deadlock is either a world war, since the monopolists need to expand further and, something to harass, or look for other ways, in particular, I just offered my view on the problem. something better
              And about globalization, read Marx, it says how it all ends ....
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 5 February 2013 22: 03
                0
                Globalization is a natural process, and a soap bubble is an unsecured currency printed in unlimited quantities.
          3. Lankov Victor
            Lankov Victor 5 February 2013 09: 35
            +1
            Chubais recipe? Thank you, it was already RAO UES.
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 07
          -2
          Quote: Yoshkin Cat
          you remind me of Svidomo, with his habit of waiting for Russia to come kapets!

          And you do not poke me, dear! I’m waiting for Russia to finally restore order! I will not say who you remind me .........
      2. Kaa
        Kaa 4 February 2013 16: 27
        +3
        Quote: nycsson
        The European Union has launched an antitrust investigation against Gazprom on suspicion of abuse in the markets of several EU countries and in obstruction of competition.

        Let them investigate. If they dig something up, we will drive gas to China, as much as we like, and we will distribute the saws to the Europeans - and to logging in Siberia - winters are getting colder and warmer somehow ...
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 4 February 2013 22: 58
          +3
          Quote: Kaa
          we will hand out saws to the Europeans - and for logging in Siberia - winters are getting colder, somehow we need to warm ourselves ...

          There are not many forests in Siberia, even if Europeans bask in anal sex, it’s not without reason that they legalized laughing
  • Apollo
    Apollo 4 February 2013 09: 59
    +4
    US repeatedly announced of every kind (and not only gas) war of Russia, how they ended we already know laughing It would be better for the United States to tackle its problems, this is a futile business, to butt with Russia. Apparently, their history has not taught anything. laughing
    1. Natalia
      Natalia 4 February 2013 10: 10
      +3
      If they (the USA) stop butting with Russia, it means to sit on the ass and solve their internal problems (public debt), and this is impossible, where can I get so much money ..... on this sitting exactly on the priest the US economy will naturally slide into (I love this word) TECHNICAL DEFAULT.
      Therefore, it remains only to raise the ceiling of the public debt, and to come up with some kind of external stimulus (adventure) for everyone, so that the whole world will forget that America owes them all (so far no more than $ 17 trillion).
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 25
        -1
        Quote: Natalia
        so that the whole world forgets that America owes them all (so far no more than $ 17 trillion).

        Forget about these debts! You can assume that the United States forgave them all ....... wassat
        1. Natalia
          Natalia 4 February 2013 11: 16
          +1
          nycsson
          You know, it also seems to me that in the end America will say we don’t owe anything to anyone, you can hate me, but you can’t do anything with it anyway.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 4 February 2013 23: 02
            0
            Quote: Natalia
            ultimately America will say we don’t owe anything to anyone
            They will make it easier - they will print a mountain of green candy wrappers (or simply transfer them by e-mail so as not to bother with paper), and then immediately ... they will bankrupt the FRS (it is also a private one). And they will introduce "amero" as money for themselves (such infa has already slipped through). And let the whole planet do whatever it wants with the bucks ...
        2. bootlegger
          bootlegger 4 February 2013 12: 39
          0
          Yes. Maybe so. But only this process will be greatly extended in time.
          Refuse the US from these debts by replacing money, or carry out a one-time devaluation, it will immediately cause an irreparable blow to the dollar, as a reserve currency. Therefore, the US will never refuse them. They will erode them of course, but with caution. And the assets will try to buy, all over the world...
        3. Kaa
          Kaa 4 February 2013 16: 32
          0
          Quote: nycsson
          The United States forgave them all.

          And the whole world will forgive them, many countries have borrowed from them and the IMF, they will forgive them, offset, so to speak. And then - settlements on barter, maybe by territory, or by cars, weapons, planes, or something else. Let's recall the "dashing 90s", if anything, we will tighten the "lads" with irons and soldering irons wassat
      2. Nechai
        Nechai 4 February 2013 11: 21
        0
        Quote: Natalia
        to solve their internal problems (public debt), and it is impossible, where to take so much money .....

        NON-REFUNDABLE The US national debt was originally laid down in the design, now the global financial system. Like the ever-widening gap between geometrically increasing imports and ever-shrinking exports from the nests of tolerance, democracy and other perversions ...
        1. Kaa
          Kaa 4 February 2013 16: 34
          0
          Quote: Nechai
          The US national debt was originally laid in the design, now the global financial system.

          A backfill question, how is the Fed different from MMM? Only in size ... laughing
      3. rolik
        rolik 4 February 2013 11: 41
        +1
        Quote: Natalia
        forgot that America owes them all

        You can recall, presenting for payment debt obligations. Or tying the ruble to a gold anchor. Then the mattresses will not be at all laughing. But while they are kept afloat, they still need to withdraw their money from them. Then it will be possible to take for slaughter.
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 12: 50
          -1
          Quote: rolik
          they still need to withdraw their money from them.

          How? Just looked around Russia24 our stabilization fund amounted to 1 trillion 883 billion rubles !!! wassat And before 2015, 800 more will be replenished with something billion rubles! I can imagine if this money is returned to Russia and invested in the economy, we will live like Christ’s bosom! wassat
  • Predator-74
    Predator-74 4 February 2013 10: 00
    +2
    According to some reports, US gas production was exaggerated by all 11% ... That is, not quite so: it was mined as it was, only the White House thought that it was producing 11% more. But they still say that the Americans never take anything from overseas ... Only, you know, their own ... It turns out that they even take over.
    Can throw some more "great" ideas to the Americans.
  • Natalia
    Natalia 4 February 2013 10: 03
    +2
    Well, what can I say, in order for the whole world to decide something for itself, it needs to be done.
    And as always there are two ..... options:
    1) Ukraine produces shale gas and supplies it to Europe. Europe is looking at this matter, looking at the price, and if everything is less or less normal, the State Department will give its puppets the go-ahead to purchase a significant amount of shale gas, albeit not for long, and even more expensive ........ just to bring down the Russian economy. (although this option does not guarantee that the price will suit Europe)

    2) Ukraine, regardless of whether or not it will produce shale gas, will cause significant environmental damage, the whole WORLD will see that it is bad, the experiment failed, but what kind of gas, a lot of people will get poisoned, contaminated the area with a 50-kilometer exclusion zone .. ....... mmmda somewhere I already saw it ..........
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 31
      -2
      Quote: Natalia
      to purchase a significant amount of shale gas, albeit not for long, and even more expensive ........ just to bring down the Russian economy.

      Why Europe needs shale gas when there is liquefied Qatari gas, which is much cheaper than Russian.
      Let me remind everyone that at one time Saudi Arabia collapsed oil prices in the 1980s and thereby dealt a crushing blow to the economy of the USSR!
      I’ll also remind you that Russia sits tightly on a gas and oil needle, and if we assume that they stop buying gas from us and collapse oil prices, we don’t think so.
      1. Natalia
        Natalia 4 February 2013 10: 52
        +3
        If Qatari gas is cheaper then why do they buy gas from Russia ......
        I remember about the USSR, but this was not the only reason, the USSR was drawn into a devastating arms race (this, by all means), which it could not win with its economy.
        What is the most dangerous blow ...... which you do not see, on the account of the collapse in prices, the stage has been studied, gold and currency reserves are there to mitigate such situations.
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 12: 53
          -4
          Quote: Natalia
          If Qatari gas is cheaper then why do they buy gas from Russia ......

          While they are buying, but the process is on the decline! A system for receiving liquefied gas has not yet been fully built, but as they complete it, then .......
          Quote: Natalia
          gold and foreign exchange reserves lie in order to mitigate such situations.

          And where do they lie, have you forgotten ???
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 17
            +1
            do you care Do you know what will happen if the USA does not pay for its obligations? FOR YOURSELF? and gold is in Russia
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 13
              -2
              Quote: Yoshkin Cat
              do you care

              The difference is big, but you don’t understand this ........
              Quote: Yoshkin Cat
              Do you know what will happen if the USA does not pay for its obligations? FOR YOURSELF

              Well, enlighten what will happen.
              Quote: Yoshkin Cat
              and gold is in Russia

              I know that.
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 15: 53
            +4
            Quote: nycsson
            While they are buying, but the process is on the decline! A system for receiving liquefied gas has not yet been fully built, but as they complete it, then .......

            The process is not going anywhere. Demand fell due to declining production and consumption due to the financial crisis. And not because of the alternative gas. Regarding percentage indicators, the demand for Russian fuel only increased, and therefore, new gas pipelines are being built. This is obvious, how can you not understand this.
            Quote: nycsson
            And where do they lie, have you forgotten ???

            In the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, if you are not in the know. Gold is stored in Russia itself, in contrast to the same Germany, which can not return its gold home. Foreign exchange reserves are spinning in Russian companies, hence the growth of GDP. Foreign money is just spinning, and American Treasuries are collateral for these loans. Only an illiterate person can consider that the stabilization funds of states look like a pile of paper in some kind of basement.
      2. rolik
        rolik 4 February 2013 11: 47
        +3
        Quote: nycsson
        Why Europe needs shale gas when there is liquefied Qatari

        If it is very tight, liquefied gas production plants will appear very quickly, and right on the borders with Europe. And the price will be such that this Qatari gas remains in Qatar, it will not be profitable to carry it. Apparently still suffering. Remember the north and south streams quickly built? And now the masticatory can go to w ... pu with their gas blackmail. And one more thing, Britain stood in line to lay a gas line to their islands. So make conclusions about the Qatari gas. But the fact that in all cases it turns out to be independent, although why it turns out, remains in the ass .... ts, this is a fact.
        1. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 15: 55
          +4
          Quote: rolik
          If it is very tight, liquefied gas production plants will appear very quickly, and right on the borders with Europe. And the price will be such that this Qatari gas remains in Qatar, it will not be profitable to carry it. Apparently still suffering. Remember the north and south streams quickly built? And now the masticatory can go to w ... pu with their gas blackmail. And one more thing, Britain stood in line to lay a gas line to their islands. So make conclusions about the Qatari gas. But the fact that in all cases it turns out to be independent, although why it turns out, remains in the ass .... ts, this is a fact.

          In principle, I agree with what is written, if only for less emotion.
          What a shame it is for Ukraine, such a prosperous and prosperous country with a population of 50 million people that you should sniff for 20 years ... Descendants will never forgive this tingling.
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 18
          -2
          Quote: rolik
          And the price will be such that this Qatari gas remains in Qatar, it will not be profitable to carry it.

          You forgot about transit ......... The price for Poland will be one, but for France, it will be completely different! The whole point is to deliver directly to each customer! But Russian gas, while it reaches the border with Europe, is increasing in price, I hope there is no need to explain why !?
      3. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 15: 47
        +2
        Quote: nycsson
        Why Europe needs shale gas, when there is liquefied Qatari gas, which is much cheaper than Russian. I remind everyone that at one time Saudi Arabia collapsed oil prices in the 1980s and thereby dealt a crushing blow to the Soviet economy! I’ll also remind you that Russia sits tightly on a gas and oil needle, and if we assume that they stop buying gas from us and collapse oil prices, we don’t think so.

        Because in Europe, not all storytellers are people who think about the future, why should they lie about cheap Qatari gas, which is actually 30-40 percent more expensive than Russian gas, and even to take it you need to get money somewhere to build factories for the degassing and acceptance of this Qatari miracle, which, as it turns out, is actually not enough not only for Europe, but for the whole world. It turns out that Qatar can produce less than 7% of world consumption and if someone in Tehran suddenly finds $ 2-3 million, then Qatar is so hot that it does not put out a couple of years. Then the storytellers will be happy looking at the corpses of their frozen babies and will sing songs that aren’t today, so after 2 years they will still have heat and fire to warm and feed .. but not today ... not now ...
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 21
          -1
          Quote: Gluxar_
          which is actually more expensive than Russian by 30-40 percent

          It is not true! Qatar gas is priced at $ 140 per TCM! Those. 2-3 times cheaper than Russian. Thus, the construction of factories easily pays off!
          1. Kars
            Kars 4 February 2013 19: 29
            +1
            Quote: nycsson
            Thus, the construction of factories easily pays off!

            It seems to Ukraine it does not shine.
            The news said that Turkey has not yet signed a permit for the passage of gas carriers through its straits.
            1. Quit
              Quit 5 February 2013 02: 05
              0
              Kars,

              That’s not the point: the Turks simply offered to make a feasibility study for the Odessa terminal, the very thing that they signed with the skier later. It’s clear that now they are pouting, it’s the east. Moreover, the LNG terminal itself is almost empty. holy work.
  • bdolah
    bdolah 4 February 2013 10: 09
    +1
    But all the same, we must understand that no matter how profitable and dangerous it was to produce shale gas, the United States will not stop at anything, just to reduce the international role of Russia by any means. And it would not hurt our government to start an active counter-information war.
    1. Big lexey
      Big lexey 4 February 2013 13: 39
      -4
      Quote: bdolah
      But all the same, we must understand that no matter how profitable and dangerous it was to produce shale gas, the United States will not stop at anything, just to reduce the international role of Russia by any means. And it would not hurt our government to start an active counter-information war.

      Gentlemen, what are you talking about ?! What the hell authority can a country have - a raw materials appendage of the world ?! What are you proud of ?!
      It is necessary to be proud of achievements in science, technology, electronics, medicine, sports ... in everything that is created by MAN! Proud of the fact that we, God’s business, got gas and oil - it’s not reasonable ... even criminal!
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 16: 41
        +3
        Quote: BigLexey
        Gentlemen, what are you talking about ?! What the hell authority can a country have - a raw materials appendage of the world ?! What are you proud of ?! We need to be proud of achievements in science, technology, electronics, medicine, sport ... in everything that is created by MAN! Proud of the fact that we, God’s business, got gas and oil - it’s not reasonable ... even criminal!

        Comrade, you do not boil. Everyone is proud not of our natural resources, but of our Great People. And our science has always been and remains advanced, our technology is one of the best in the world, if we talk about really useful technologies and not about crazy rattle-entertaining rattles. Medicine is the same on the level. Sports so the Olympics in a year, the Universiade this year, in the 2018 World Cup. By the number of medals per citizen, we are generally ahead of the rest, so everything is fine with sports. Russian literature and theater are recognized as a reference throughout the world. And in Russia, everything is created by people, not robots or programs. And we can be proud of our vast Motherland and the unique and most diverse nature in the whole world. And we can be proud of our history, which counts for many millennia. And we also have such a concept as conscience, including in international politics. Russia can be proud that it survives alone and at the expense of its own forces, we do not rob and do not deceive anyone, in contrast to traders from the west.
        And our Great People live by God's providence, but the country did not grow with prayers but with the GREAT deeds of our ancestors, with the efforts and blood of our grandfathers, with the intelligence and foresight of our fathers, and again with our blood today and our work today and tomorrow. And all the oil and gas, all the gold and uranium, went to the Russians not according to God's providence, but according to our labors. And we all deserved it and paid three times with blood, and can use it as we see fit.
        And God's providence is that he preserved such a great people as Russian, so that he could preserve the culture and values ​​of hundreds of other peoples, unite them into something larger and protect them from traders and speculators who destroy and colonize everything that is slightly weaker and different. from them, striking crowds of "zombies" in place of the peoples.

        So do not boil here with all sorts of nonsense, forum users are not made here with a finger.
        1. Big lexey
          Big lexey 5 February 2013 13: 20
          -1
          Quote: Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ B

          You wrote beautifully and I’m ready to subscribe to almost every of your offers. Yes, Russia is a Great Country! Yes, we have many achievements.
          But I will never be proud that we are the largest exporters of raw materials! It is the same that the Ecuadorian will beat his heel in the chest and proudly declare that he lives in the country's largest banana exporter.
          He is better proud of a strong military-industrial complex, a powerful army, social guarantees, an omnipotent processing industry, than the export of crude oil ...
          IMHO!
    2. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 16: 29
      +2
      Quote: bdolah
      But all the same, we must understand that no matter how profitable and dangerous it was to produce shale gas, the United States will not stop at anything, just to reduce the international role of Russia by any means. And it would not hurt our government to start an active counter-information war.

      I do not agree.
      If the facts. Firstly, since they are already developing, then they have already done irreparable damage to the environment. this is a minus.
      Secondly, having achieved the short-term respite they paid in rising prices and inflation, as well as maintaining a certain number of jobs through subsidizing gas production. The Americans attacked their satellites in the form of the same Qatar and other vassals. They invested their hard-earned money and gained loans, but failed to realize their projects. All this leads to an increase in their internal costs and, ultimately, to their ruin. So in the long run, gas supply will decrease. And this is beneficial to Russia.
      Thirdly, the information pumping of the "shale revolution" itself has already failed. The more expectation, the greater the disappointment. As soon as the real facts of the consequences come out, everything will collapse. such an image failure will hang on the US for decades. America has always used the ideological principles of the "American Dream", each lie hits the USA the hardest. Personally, I think the starting point for the fall of the West and the United States is not 2008, and not 2001, with their transfer of their dot-coms into mortgage securities, but the beginning of the bombing of Libya. This is a watershed of history, many lies have been swallowed by humanity, but this one has not been digested. The Americans have lost their monopoly on the "empire of good" they have been selling so well for the past 70 years. This is a major failure.
      Everything else will hit them harder and harder; they no longer have their aura.

      As for the Russian government, it must act very carefully. Although many things upset me. I don’t understand why some kind of impersonal fund will not appear in the Virgin Islands, the fund is not even big, some 30-40 million dollars. And this fund will create in Canada or better in the USA an energy company for the extraction of shale gas, only it will work independently, without government cover and at each well it will openly work with the "independent" press and environmentalists .... I think within 2 years all questions about the shale revolution will be erased from history, and very gullible and intimidated American citizens will be imbued with video clips of poisoned people and dying deer in the areas of operation of "shale companies", and if this fund also sponsors a public association "free lawyers to help citizens who have suffered from violations ecological norms of geological exploration ", then the American citizens who are always distinguished by" consumer terrorism ", who have supported themselves in order, will file not billions of dollars, but trillions of claims to the government and energy companies ... Lawyers have always been the weapon of the United States, it is a sin not to use their own methods ..
      But only citizens can reason like that, the government should be more restrained.
      1. Urrry
        Urrry 4 February 2013 18: 44
        +2
        "I don't understand why some impersonal fund will not appear ..."

        What for? So that later the circumstances of the emergence of this "fund" were revealed by some CIA and used for propaganda purposes to profane the "greens"?
        Here, on the contrary - as if this "idea" as a provocative one didn’t get into the head of some CIA and it didn’t create it by the hands of "Russian citizens" - so that later all the same they blame the "dead deer" solely on the intrigues of "Russian special services" (which themselves did not create this fund out of their own laziness) :)
  • SHAKESPEARE
    SHAKESPEARE 4 February 2013 10: 16
    -1
    Any production of something leads to a violation of the eco-environment, and what does shale gas have to do with it, each state is fighting for its energy independence. It was necessary to approach pricing correctly and do not engage in pure, undisguised blackmail of another state, as it will turn out that the Toad crushed. Everyone masturbates as he wants; I masturbate as I want, which is not clear here. drinks
    1. zambo
      zambo 4 February 2013 11: 01
      +1
      So masturbate as you want with your leadership - you can’t do anything else ...
    2. abc_alex
      abc_alex 4 February 2013 11: 32
      +4
      Dear, I suspect that you don’t understand anything in the gas pricing scheme. Otherwise, they would know that this scheme is ONE for all pipe gas consumers in the world. In Ukraine, Lithuania and Germany, the gas price is calculated according to BTU. The fact that this price is higher for Ukraine is due exclusively to your orange cabinet, which incorrectly predicted the trend in the price of oil and oil products, and the striped cabinet in the United States, which started another war. And it’s still necessary to see who blackmailed whom.
    3. rolik
      rolik 4 February 2013 11: 52
      +8
      Quote: SHEKSPIR
      It was necessary to approach pricing correctly

      It was necessary to adjoin normally, and not to do tricks behind his back and for any reason. During the division of the Union, they gave so much that they could not even dream about in a dream. But freedom-loving neighbors, delinquent ... whether everything is possible. And now they howl that they were cheated. Remember, when you separated as you sang ???, we will have everything, we will be the richest. Now what ??? you don’t have a damn .... on, only show-offs and ambitions remained. It is not surprising that now ask for gas and other supplies in the hardest currency on earth - THANKS.
      1. SHAKESPEARE
        SHAKESPEARE 4 February 2013 12: 06
        0
        You say that to the logs and saloids in the west of Ukraine, and I and the east of Ukraine were against the collapse of the USSR, and now I would return the golden Brezhnev era. I have already said, it is not really not clear that we have our own gas production of 21 billion cubic meters. per year, it is more than enough for the population, but your oligarchs and ours even kill each other that you are Pupkina IK. protect, he has already become the richest resident of Russia, and the lion's share of gas and oil settles from him and his faithful servants, and you get a minuscule. We also have gas kings and princesses; one chicken has been perched for a year already, Julia is a golden pen. venal Europe did not freeze and planted its people in a galosh. drinks
        1. rolik
          rolik 4 February 2013 12: 37
          +3
          Quote: SHEKSPIR
          This is what you say to Benderlogs and Saloids in western Ukraine,

          But you live in one state. You have the ability to take for these logs ... there would be political will. Ask Yanukovych for this, let him remember his election promises. And then he promised the sky in diamonds, but turned around 180, and from him he must be demanded. There have never been questions to eastern Ukraine; western is a big separate question. And it's up to you to decide all this.
        2. Yoshkin Kot
          Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 18
          0
          and I am against the return of the USSR, I personally do not want to sponsor "brothers" from my salary and live the worst of all
    4. Krsk
      Krsk 4 February 2013 12: 15
      +1
      Toad presses with envy ... And what can envy Ukraine? Energy security say, well, good luck guys ...
    5. Krsk
      Krsk 4 February 2013 12: 49
      +4
      Quote: SHEKSPIR
      Everyone as he wants, I as I want


      I see directly the headlines of Ukrainian newspapers: State nanism is the basis of the country's energy security.
  • Atlon
    Atlon 4 February 2013 10: 16
    +10
    Shale gas production involves the injection of a huge amount of toxic substances underground. There is no other way to release gas. It is in a bound state. During a chemical reaction, it is released from shale rocks. No "witnesses" will help here. Infection of the bowels with serious toxic substances will still make itself felt. And this is the contamination of water, which, as you know, is only 1% on Earth. Drinking water is meant. So the "gas wars" are a trifle compared to what wars for drinking water can unleash ... And by no means "cold" ones! You can live without gas, in extreme cases they will burn firewood, and nobody canceled the nuclear power plant. But without water, you can't last a day. And where are the largest reserves of fresh water? Right! In Russia ... So we will ALWAYS be a thorn in the eye of the rest of the world. And you need to be ready for this.
    1. SEM
      SEM 4 February 2013 17: 53
      0
      From here we can also conclude that this is where all the talk about the future high cost of drinking water comes from, ALL OF THEM ARE ALREADY PLANNED BEFORE. HERE BADS !!
  • rpek32
    rpek32 4 February 2013 10: 25
    0
    I read somewhere that one of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR was a serious underestimation of the price of oil on the world market.
    Now the situation is the same, but will chtoli be repeated with gas?
    1. abc_alex
      abc_alex 4 February 2013 11: 39
      0
      It is doubtful. Qatar, of course, operates exclusively on political motives in pricing, but it has spot gas. And although everyone shouts about this spot as a miracle, in fact, the price in the spot market can not only be compared, but even significantly exceed the price of the contract. For example, there were cases when in Britain the price of spot gas rose to 1000 f.st. for 1000 cubes. You understand that if for heating apartments this is at least unpleasant, but not critical, then for the cycles of chemical production a sharp twofold increase in the cost of raw materials can end very poorly. Therefore, contract gas will be in demand, primarily for industrial facilities that need stable contract prices.

      Another issue is that SOEs need to sharply scratch their turnips for diversification of supplies to Asia, and participation in the spot market.
    2. rolik
      rolik 4 February 2013 11: 53
      +2
      Quote: rpek32
      rpek32 s

      That's why we insure, we lay pipes to China and this region. Plus, we build gas liquefaction plants in that part of our country.
  • djon3volta
    djon3volta 4 February 2013 10: 27
    +1
    The USA is going to act as a guarantor of energy security in the future, because the same ordinary natural gas will end sooner or later

    Actually, in Russia only explored gas fields are enough for 200 years ahead, but no one has stopped exploration, and who is going to secure the United States and what? It’s not clear ..
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 4 February 2013 10: 36
      -3
      Quote: djon3volta
      in fact, in Russia only explored gas fields are enough for 200 years ahead

      Yes, even for 500 years, the point is not this, but that Gazprom has a direct competitor in the person of Qatar, whose gas is several times cheaper than Russian. And the fact that the Russian economy depends on gas sales!
      1. djon3volta
        djon3volta 4 February 2013 11: 24
        +3
        Quote: nycsson
        that the Russian economy depends on gas sales!

        and the economy of Qatar, the UAE, and other Arab oil-producing countries .. Norway, Venezuela, what does it depend on ??? maybe their economy depends on the sale of bicycles or glass ??? here in Venezuela gasoline costs 50 cents per liter, and so what is that to the point that in Venezuela gasoline costs 50 kopecks, can you tell me what is the use of their economy or people? Here I listen to you!
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 12: 58
          -1
          Quote: djon3volta
          here in Venezuela gasoline costs 50 kopecks per liter, and so what is the point that in Venezuela gasoline costs 50 kopecks, can you tell what good is their economy or people?

          Big! At the price of energy, the state regulates the development of the economy and, above all, private business! Accordingly, our state inhibits this development!
          Quote: djon3volta
          Norway, Venezuela, on what depends ???

          Also from the sale of oil! Only you forgot, for example, about Japan, whose economy depends on high-tech production, which in Russia is almost gone, with the exception of space and the military-industrial complex!
          1. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 22
            +3
            those. is Venezuela a rich country?
            if I were you, I wouldn’t touch Japan, at the moment it’s in a big ..ope!
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 26
              +1
              Quote: Yoshkin Cat
              those. is Venezuela a rich country?

              Not poor - that's for sure! At least hydrocarbons there belong to the state, as well as to the whole world (Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc.), only in Russia it belongs to the oligarchs! In Venezuela, oil and oil were nationalized by Chavez in 2007. And much has been done.
              Quote: Yoshkin Cat
              if I were you, I wouldn’t touch Japan, at the moment it’s in a big ..ope!

              Not convincingly - this is why the third economy in the world in a big ... opera ??? request
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 17: 25
            +4
            Quote: nycsson
            Big! At the price of energy, the state regulates the development of the economy and, above all, private business! Accordingly, our state inhibits this development!

            That is, Europe is consciously destroying its small business and the middle class with a price of gas above 45 rubles per liter? And do you think Europeans live worse than Venezuelans?
            Quote: nycsson
            Also from the sale of oil! Only you forgot, for example, about Japan, whose economy depends on high-tech production, which in Russia is almost gone, with the exception of space and the military-industrial complex!

            And what remains in the USA? China now lives by assembling all consumer goods. Does the Chinese live well? In Russia, in addition to high-tech industries, in addition to space (such a small one) and the military-industrial complex (also almost assemble TVs), there are still the most advanced atomic technologies, there is the largest complex for processing raw materials, and most importantly, there are resources themselves. No one has such competitive advantages. But the challenges facing Russia are global, they do not compare Russia with a single country. Russia is a civilization, the same as Western or Asian.
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 4 February 2013 19: 28
              0
              Quote: Gluxar_
              That is, Europe is consciously destroying its small business and the middle class with a price of gas above 45 rubles per liter?

              Europeans buy oil from Russia and other countries! Have you all fallen off the moon? And in Russia, oil and gas could be state ........
      2. JonnyT
        JonnyT 4 February 2013 11: 55
        +1
        And what would Amer do with a competitor ????? Sow democracy and all!

        It's time for us to take the methods of our "friends". In addition, this katharshina constantly does nasty things, sometimes it hurts the economy, then it breeds terrorists!

        As they said in ancient Rome, "Qatar must be destroyed!"
      3. Yoshkin Kot
        Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 21
        +1
        tired, you are already the American president, why would Qatar lower the price of gas? or oil saudis? Are they full of social spending within countries?
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 23: 54
          -1
          Quote: Yoshkin Cat
          why qatar will reduce the price of gas? or oil saudis?

          And why did the Saudis lower the price of oil in the 80s? For a blow to the economy of the USSR!
          Quote: Yoshkin Cat
          tired, you are already an American president,

          I am not an American president! How did you tire me!
      4. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 4 February 2013 17: 18
        +3
        Quote: nycsson
        Yes, even for 500 years, the point is not this, but that Gazprom has a direct competitor in the person of Qatar, whose gas is several times cheaper than Russian. And the fact that the Russian economy depends on gas sales!

        Gazprom has no direct competitors; more than half of the gas is sold in Russia itself. The Russian economy is 30% dependent on oil and gas, the European economy is more than 50%. And given the fact that the basis of the Western economy is trade and transportation, respectively, the dependence is even higher. Qatar is a religious corpse, they shout about it so much because agony is always brighter than death.
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 4 February 2013 23: 51
          -1
          Quote: Gluxar_
          The Russian economy is 30% dependent on oil and gas, the European economy is more than 50%.

          You forgot to say that from the sale, not only at 30, but at all 70-80!
          1. Curculum
            Curculum 8 February 2013 16: 31
            0
            Quote: nycsson
            You forgot to say that from the sale, not only at 30, but at all 70-80!

            Not taking into account the relationships you have given, the question is of a different kind: in the case of gas, and who has more risks of dependence - from the producer / seller or from the consumer / buyer?
  • Averias
    Averias 4 February 2013 10: 38
    +5
    I can offer the same alternative source of gas for the United States. So we take a large territory and build pigsties there, many pigsties, a lot. The pigs eat and poop, they poop a lot, this business is collected, it is placed in special "reactors", a little bio additives and voila - gas is coming. What is bad, and meat heaps and gas is. Well, the smell, and what the smell, the person did not get used to that. But the ecologists are happy, and the people, how much meat and gas.
    This nonsense, written to cheer up on Monday.
  • Bresh
    Bresh 4 February 2013 10: 40
    0
    Quote: Sakhalininets
    It is good to use modern technologies for the production of shale gas only somewhere in a distant colony, and not in one's own country.

    So they chose the colony-Ukraine ...
  • amigo4471
    amigo4471 4 February 2013 10: 46
    +2
    No shale gas is capable of providing the necessary amount of energy for the guaranteed development of countries, almost all experts agree with this, moreover, gas reserves are limited, plus everything needs to be solved with transportation issues .... The United States wants to act as a guarantor of energy security, but as a rule such statements have begun to sound recently, especially after Fukushima, when many American nuclear power plant projects froze ... and Russia received many interesting proposals ....

    As far as they begin to produce in Ukraine, it’s still a grandmother for two said that he has a long way to invest and get a finished product ... Even if we assume that they will succeed, where are they going to export this gas ?! Europe is unlikely to perceive Ukraine as a reliable strategic partner, they are too muddled with the political situation, and the amers are unlikely to act as a guarantor, at least they will not act in a legal way .... then even in Europe the influence of the greens is very high, if they so wailed about atomic e power engineers, they will raise such a screech about shale gas ..... Personally, my opinion is all talk about shale gas in Ukraine, more precisely, that Ukraine would become gas-independent just a PR move, the more funny that this happens against the background of the fact that Ukraine starts ask for discounts on our gas ...
  • ars_pro
    ars_pro 4 February 2013 10: 49
    +2
    Good day to all! Sadness, they are going to develop gas on the territory of the Kharkov region, and the harm to the population, though not immediately, will manifest itself, in general, I am against doing something in my homeland, where I have a lot of friends and relatives. Because of their "stupid bull" (is it difficult to come to an agreement with the Russian Federation normally?), The Ukrainian authorities are only losing, if you take in points, then I will dial at least a dozen on the fly and not in favor of the development of relations between our countries. In general, something needs to be changed in the direction vector. The more I look at this fuss of the Ukrainian authorities, the greater the disappointment. Also, a dozen points in favor will be typed if you negotiate correctly with the Russian Federation, although I already doubt Ukrainian politicians. I perceive Russia and Ukraine as an integral education and a single people, I hope that the present will still change,
  • mkrass2006
    mkrass2006 4 February 2013 10: 52
    0
    The confrontation of 2 powers continues. But on the part of the United States and its friends, before or after Obama’s 2nd term, they began to build up the horror of the long-forgotten Cold War. Based on the anti-democracy and economic influence of Russia. What is no reason to develop some sort of potential crisis and save from it. fellow US politician, that is, nationalists! from it is only + in their struggle for influence and power. And as they wrote here in some article that They are developing a confrontation in the form of the Cold War.
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas 4 February 2013 11: 02
    +3
    In Ukraine, Shell will work on the old fields, where the extraction was carried out "in the usual way" back in the Soviet Union. Hike this is not shale, but reanimation and development of hard-to-recover deposits. There are no riots in Donetsk, there is peace and quiet that Yanukovych rules and rules everyone. Medvedchuk brought out a hundred teenagers, the report was shown on TV, Very funny. But in the West of Ukraine, where, in theory, they should rejoice at the discharge of the Moscow gas yoke, on the contrary, there is a tough opposition from local authorities controlled by nationalists. Yes, there is such an opposition that the Party of Regions wants to change the legislation on subsoil use, and to excommunicate the local authorities (the Donetsk Regional Council quickly gave permission). Paradoxically, Ukrainian nationalists have become allies of Russia in this matter.
    1. Yoshkin Kot
      Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 24
      +1
      those. your government and shell are lying to you impudently ????? laughing
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas 4 February 2013 13: 43
        +1
        all governments lie to their citizens, even shitty ones. recourse There is one moment that bothers me. Shell creates a joint venture. On the Ukrainian side, Nadra Yuzovskaya speaks, in which 90% belongs to Nadra of Ukraine (a state company) and some kind of office about which they had never heard of before under the name SPK-Geoservice. At the same time, the joint venture is exempt from all taxes and duties when importing everything and everyone. Quote on the move: Shell and "Nadra Yuzivska" zvіlnyayuyutsya from paying an ecologic tribute, a fee for a special water storage facility, pay for land, a mitny fee.
        Please, please, the deputy of the Kharkiv Regional Council of Batkivshchyna Ivan Varchenko, broadcast "Interfax-Ukraine".
        As a result of the document, investors will also not be able to rally the odds, but they will contract when selling foreign currency, using a mobile phone call, or when buying non-hassle and available cars.
        In such a rank, Shell and "Nadra Yuzivska", when developing the Yuzivskoy area, will pay a fee for income, MPE and pay for overcrowding.
        "Independently from the changes of Ukrainian legislation, the rate of tax on income for investors in the project is 19%, and in 2014 - 16%," the document says.
        The fee for coring the nadras is 1,25% for gas and 2% for naphtha.
        At the same time, the project has sent the sanctions to the state, at times of non-regular rotation of the MPE - penalty in the amount of 120% of the NBU regional rate for stitched leather day.
        In general, I suspect that duty-free imports of at least cars will begin to be imported into Ukraine through an unknown SPK-Geoservice desk.
    2. morpex
      morpex 4 February 2013 14: 26
      0
      I agree with you, Eney. I don’t know how in other areas, but in Kharkov we don’t even talk about any shale. Gas will be extracted from dense caves and not from shale. And the production methods are completely different. In any case, experts say so .
  • Natalia
    Natalia 4 February 2013 11: 02
    +6
    All the same, it would be better if the Ukrainian government learned from the mistakes of others. All these corporations do not care about the ecology of Ukraine; their families still do not live there. But as they say who does not risk .........

    NEVER LEARN ANYTHING FOR SOMETHING AND DO NOT WANT TO LEARN ....... the American kin have seen enough or tear off the roof from greed, you tell him about the environment and he tells you about swag ...... They don’t want to think about anything except grandmothers ON THE BRANCH DO NOT DISSOLVE .............
  • gazovic
    gazovic 4 February 2013 11: 11
    +6
    The Japanese are closest to the States, however, they are buying liquefied natural gas from a plant in Sakhalin, and taking into account future risks in the Middle East, they signed an agreement at the Vladivostok summit to build a new gas liquefaction plant in Slavyanka near Vladivostok. And they reserved the plant’s products for the next 15 years.
    As for shale gas in Ukraine for Europe, you can only say that the flag is in your hands. Fracturing technology was invented in the 60s in the USSR, and even then it was clear that gas production in this way is dangerous. Now hydraulic fracturing is used in ordinary wells, only for putting a well into operation. Already, the Chinese are ready to buy from us all the gas that we supply to Europe, the more they refuse, the more it will be sold to China, Korea, and Japan.
  • Rus2012
    Rus2012 4 February 2013 11: 12
    +2
    Quote: ism_ek
    Really in the states now the industrial boom of all


    ... oh ... Stagnation and regression are walking around the world, and you blow the industrial boom ...
    Confirm with links from reputable sources.
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek 4 February 2013 18: 35
      -1
      Quote: Rus2012
      ... oh ... Stagnation and regression are walking around the world, and you are blowing a prombum ... Give confirmation by links from reputable sources.

      ... "This is a revival of the US petrochemical industry," Singh said, noting that shale gas has poured $ 16,2 billion into the industry in new investment. "There hasn't been such an investment in American manufacturing in 25 years."
      October 2012

      http://www.pro-gas.org/2012/10/slancevyj-gaz-v-kitae-6.html
      The shale revolution is driving the United States towards reindustrialization. Following petrochemical companies, metallurgists are beginning to invest in the construction of innovative enterprises that use cheap shale gas for steel production. It is a pity that there is no news from aluminum producers yet.
      The American "shale" revolution not only brought chemical companies back to life and allowed the talk about complete energy self-sufficiency to start again, but it was able to attract
      (01/01/2013 - USA - bloomberg.com)
  • zmey
    zmey 4 February 2013 11: 19
    +1
    about pigs is not nonsense. this is real for a small "collective farm" with a boiler room. and the dry residue burns very well and fertilizes the fields - an environmentally friendly material!
  • ochakow703
    ochakow703 4 February 2013 11: 20
    +2
    With gas and oil, everything is clear. This is what I’m thinking about. Since everything is so unstable on the global energy market (and it is), then maybe we should not invest our honestly (!) Earned money in the SESEA economy, in the form of a stabilization fund, etc., but take up the money to develop our production . To do this, not so much is needed, we still seem to have brains and hands, but there are embezzlers for logging, to create offshore zones for them.
    1. gazovic
      gazovic 4 February 2013 11: 36
      +5
      There is another side here that is never mentioned, but if you look at it, the picture will look a little different. Even 10-15 years ago, for the construction of gas pipelines, we bought 90% of the pipe from the Germans, French, Japanese, and Americans. Today, our metallurgical and steel rolling industry provides us with our own pipe 100%. Gas turbine installations for pumping gas, control and monitoring systems, communication systems, telemechanics, etc. today, almost all of domestic production, 15 years ago, 80% of imports. Foreign manufacturers trample in our receptions and offer, beg to buy their products, take us to their factories, including in the states, but there is a strict requirement that all high-tech products must be Russian-made or localized in Russia in joint ventures. Companies lost contracts for huge amounts.
      1. Perch_xnumx
        Perch_xnumx 4 February 2013 15: 53
        -1
        management and control systems, communication systems, telemechanics, etc. today almost all domestic production
        Tell me which management and control systems produced in Russia are used and sold by Gazprom, as well as which software packages for operational management, control, data collection and analysis.

        PS: Still far from desired.
    2. rolik
      rolik 4 February 2013 11: 58
      +1
      Quote: ochakow703
      ochakow703

      It's time, that's just what the Liber lobby is opposing. Including all Medvein-fren, Dvorkovich and a couple of other devotees. I'd like to hope that they will soon be taken to the conclusion of the threshold. And they will not pay attention to the cries of the undemocracy of our country.
  • Rus2012
    Rus2012 4 February 2013 11: 32
    +6
    The United States declares Russia a gas war?


    ...for God's sake!
    Only the way out of that war, I think they will not be happy :)

    Just here - http://forum.polismi.org/index.php?/topic/4348-the-archdruid-report-%d0%ba%d0%b0
    %d0%ba-%d1%8d%d1%82%d0%be-%d0%bc%d0%be%d0%b6%d0%b5%d1%82-%d1%81%d0%bb%d1%83%d1%8
    7%d0%b8%d1%82%d1%8c%d1%81%d1%8f-%d1%87%d0%b0%d1%81%d1%82%d1%8c-1-%d0%b2%d1%8b%d1
    %81%d0%be%d0%ba%d0%be%d0%bc%d0%b5%d1%80%d0%b8%d0%b5/
    I read an interesting material about America's departure in the form of a fantasy "How It Could Happen"

    Translator's Preface:
    I recently found an American author, who very faithfully described the mechanics of the collapse of the United States - and in artistic form. John Michael Greer is a writer, scientist, historian of ideas and the Great Archdruid of the Druid Order in America. Contrary to my rather strange religious hobbies, his fantastic story about the near future of the last superpower fascinated me and I decided to translate it. The story consists of five parts and epilogues. Today I post the translation of the first part.

    Preface of the author:
    Throughout the year in the posts of The Archdruid Report, I tried to outline in general terms the trajectory of the global American empire and to reveal the reasons why this trajectory is likely to suddenly stop in the near future. To make the topic less abstract and to put it in a historical context, I decided to turn to the fiction toolkit. In this and the next four posts I will try to outline the scenario of defeat and the collapse of the American empire. The narrative begins in an uncertain future within the next two decades; probably, it should be said directly that this is not a prediction of how things will be in reality, but rather one of the possible scenarios - and, thus, a model that can help identify some of the vulnerabilities of the self-proclaimed superpower currently hobbled side of the historical compost pile.

    The news of the last discovery in Tanzania of a deep-sea oil field burst on a sleepy March Saturday. Thirty years ago, a find of this size would have got two columns on the last page of several newspapers, but now it was different. In a world starving for oil rations, what used to be considered a modest find has come to the forefront.
    No doubt she attracted attention in the East Wing of the White House, where that evening the president and his advisers gathered for a hastily convened meeting ....



    ... The fate of the three aircraft carriers was typical: "John F. Kennedy" with a short interval got hit by three cruise missiles and drowned with almost everyone on board; The Ronald Reagan received two rockets, caught fire and was left by the crew; “George Washington” was struck in the stern, in spite of severe damage to the steering system, headed for the shore and sat on a sandbank near the Kenyan shore. A Japanese news photographer took a photograph of an abandoned ship — a broken, ghostlike one, with a tilted deck washed by the surf — and this photograph, circulated in the following days by media around the world, became for many a symbol of the East African War ....
  • Nechai
    Nechai 4 February 2013 11: 40
    +5
    Quote: Atlon
    You can live without gas, in extreme cases, they will burn firewood, and nobody canceled the nuclear power plant

    Like a dung! good
    Quote: rpek32
    I read somewhere that one of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR was a serious underestimation of the price of oil on the world market.

    Yes, everything is the same - the Saudis and Qataris dropped the output price of oil below the cost of production in the USSR. But amers in quiet they immediately compensated for their losses, consider it interest-free and irrecoverable loans, supplies of equipment and weapons. This idea came from the CIA analysts, when they knocked down the results of the export-import operations of the Soviet Union, came to an interesting result. $ 10 billion in exports is equal to the same count of gratuitous "aid to developing countries of the Third World." And having deprived the Union of these revenues, respectively, its influence and authority in the very third World is undermined and the importation of imported goods already necessary inside the country is disrupted ... Haig, the secretary of state then, rushed about like a stung, co-ordinating and shaking. Plus a "five-year funeral" with the bringing to power of traitors to the Kremlin and Staraya Square ...
    If Viktor Fedorovich starts developing the production of this blessed gas from Oleskaya Square, located in the Lviv and Ivano-Frankivsk Regions, I think EVERYTHING will be very pleased. Including zapadentsev, at first, well, yes, and then they really will not remain. So there should not be a priori protests for production there.
  • CCA
    CCA 4 February 2013 11: 54
    +3
    Quote: Sakhalininets
    It is good to use modern technologies for the production of shale gas only somewhere in a distant colony, and not in one's own country.
    So the United States has chosen Ukraine as such a colony ... They will experiment, experiment, and then, what happens ... If nothing comes out, then at least time will be spent on Ukraine not joining the CU ... And the fact that the Ukrainian economy can no one cares about this time to collapse ... It will be more difficult for Russia to equalize everything when Ukraine ripens for the CU and CES ...
    1. Yoshkin Kot
      Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 27
      +1
      we do not need ukroin and ukrointsy, and a couple of new federal districts with Russian people will not hurt laughing
  • Nevazno_ S
    Nevazno_ S 4 February 2013 11: 55
    0
    [media =
    6295&hash=57ad6dfd77815211&hd=1"%20width="607"%20height="360
    "% 20frameborder =" 0 "> ]
  • Kubanets
    Kubanets 4 February 2013 11: 57
    +1
    To paraphrase the classic I’ll say They scare and I’m not afraid Well, Geyrop will not want to take our gas
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 4 February 2013 13: 01
      -3
      Quote: Kubanets
      Well, Geyropa doesn’t want to take our gas.

      For those who want more pipes must be extended .........
      1. Lankov Victor
        Lankov Victor 5 February 2013 11: 25
        0
        You are absolutely right about the pipes. I remember when they pulled the first gas pipelines to Europe, the state even had an embargo. It didn’t. But not really.
  • Nevazno_ S
    Nevazno_ S 4 February 2013 11: 58
    0
    http://vk.com/video132595057_164476295 Очень позновательный фильм
  • silver_roman
    silver_roman 4 February 2013 12: 01
    +6
    kapets just ... I'm in shock ...
    State environmentalists have clearly demonstrated that mining is an EVIL thing for nature. refused and offered us ... and we, like the last suckers, ready for a piece of paper and a smile from across the ocean to kiss asses, were led. belay

    and to hell with it, we’ll drink a benzol, otherwise one bleach is somehow not tasty in the pipeline. a wonderful cocktail will work.
  • Kiev-Ukraine
    Kiev-Ukraine 4 February 2013 12: 07
    +5
    Cheap gas at the cost of poisoning the area is a dubious pleasure.
    1. wax
      wax 4 February 2013 13: 44
      +1
      You can imagine in uncomplicated consciousness that natural gas from a well is ROARER than gas from shale, which still needs to be obtained from it.
      It seems that dark centuries are coming.
  • anchonsha
    anchonsha 4 February 2013 12: 13
    +3
    It is a pity the Ukrainian people, Again, world evil will recoup on them, like the Chernobyl disaster. But Yanukovych really wants both cheap Russian gas (without any obligations to Russia - give it all) and European well-being. Well, this cannot be in the world, gentlemen, elite Ukrainians, you can only be in one place, and not in two or even three at once. And shale gas will destroy all soil, water and air in the places of its extraction.
  • Rus2012
    Rus2012 4 February 2013 12: 14
    +2
    Quote: KKA
    It will be more difficult for Russia to align everything later, when Ukraine ripens for the CU and CES ...

    ... but will it ripen?

    It looks like our malorosy went to vabank, putting everything on foreign fighters.
    Indeed, no more than 5 years will pass as everything becomes clear: either pan or disappeared ...
    Serious people would hardly begin to lay all their eggs in one basket. And apparently after some time you will all become witnesses of the failed independent one time again ...
    But this will be another song ...
    I hope smart people will have time to get to a safe shore by this moment.
  • Natalia
    Natalia 4 February 2013 12: 16
    0
    Yanukovych decided to take a chance, or the pan either disappeared ...... what if it works .....
    But I think that everything will be fine ......... or not ......... but then everything will be very bad .....
    1. Krsk
      Krsk 4 February 2013 12: 28
      +4
      Quote: Natalia
      Yanukovych decided to take a chance


      This is not a risk ... It looks more paranoid
      1. wax
        wax 4 February 2013 14: 19
        +1
        Pure paranoia combined with uneducation. Infectious disease of politicians, focal - in the post-Soviet space. Here, for example, Matvienko was planning to knock down icicles with a laser, Gryzlov and Petrik - with clean water to supply the whole of Russia, Dvorkovich is going to provide the whole world with food, attention !, as Russia did before 1917 ...
  • Krsk
    Krsk 4 February 2013 12: 23
    0
    You and their vassals do you want energy security ??? just close the valves and ... first, the European summer and then the fall in the United States, we will not be happy, but we won’t hold back a couple of times.
  • sxn278619
    sxn278619 4 February 2013 13: 09
    0
    Oil is sold at market price, and why gas cannot directly market the market, and not after a 6-month link to the price of oil?
    1. Yoshkin Kot
      Yoshkin Kot 4 February 2013 13: 29
      +1
      how will you wear and store it? in balloons?
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 4 February 2013 23: 47
        -1
        Quote: Yoshkin Cat
        how will you wear and store it?

        In gas storages, of course!
    2. Nechai
      Nechai 4 February 2013 13: 37
      +1
      What is "market price"? Who determines it to a greater extent - a producer and a consumer or a market player, in other words, a SPECULATOR?
    3. wax
      wax 4 February 2013 14: 08
      +1
      You can change all the rules, but not every day.
      We were going to do a gas pool (like an oil one), if my memory serves me, the United States and others are against it.
    4. Alex 31
      Alex 31 4 February 2013 15: 21
      +2
      If the speculative component in the price of gas futures is similar to that of oil, the existing contract prices will seem like a gift. Plus planning difficulties due to strong volatility.
  • w.ebdo.g
    w.ebdo.g 4 February 2013 13: 23
    +7
    the idea of ​​amers is simple - to produce gas on the European side in those countries where the gas transportation system already exists by the forces of the USSR.
    in this way, the Russian budget can lose high gas prices for Europe.
    accordingly, we will not be able to strengthen the defense capability at the set pace ...
    that is why the government decided to pay attention to China.
    Russia will not be put in a "cancer" position in any case.
    I think so.



    1. gazovic
      gazovic 4 February 2013 13: 36
      +6
      In an attempt to put Russia in a position, many found themselves in this position much earlier.
      1. Natalia
        Natalia 4 February 2013 14: 00
        +1
        Cool phrase must be adopted good
        1. Lankov Victor
          Lankov Victor 5 February 2013 11: 35
          +1
          I bought sprats - I helped the SS veteran!
          Had a rest in Turkey - sponsored Wahhabi!
    2. ars_pro
      ars_pro 4 February 2013 17: 13
      +1
      I have never bought, and I will not buy, our craftsmen are famously remaking for themselves, because initially they don’t roll them under ours, starting with software,

      Continuing on the topic, is it really hard for the Nezalezhnaya authorities to calculate the pros and cons of the venture? am
      1. El13
        El13 4 February 2013 19: 37
        0
        In addition to calculating the logical, there are still instructions from the State Department and they cannot get around them, and this, unfortunately, does not depend on specific people ...
    3. AKOL
      AKOL 4 February 2013 20: 23
      0
      Licensed and for those grandmas whatever they want, I don’t know.
    4. buga1979
      buga1979 5 February 2013 15: 01
      +1
      about vindos liked +
  • lesnik.
    lesnik. 4 February 2013 13: 34
    +4
    For reference, 347 thousand wells have been drilled in the United States.
    What and how much you need to take from different places to cram into one well.
    After 10 years of operating wells in Barnett Shale, Fayetteville Shale, Marcellus Shale, Haynesville Shale, the following problems can be identified:

    The hydraulic fracturing technology requires large reserves of water near the fields, for one hydraulic fracturing a mixture of water (7500 tons), sand and chemicals / 80-300 tons / is used.
    As a result, significant volumes of waste contaminated water accumulate near the deposits, which is not disposed of by miners in compliance with environmental standards.

    As Barnett Shale’s development experience shows, shale wells have a much shorter lifespan than conventional natural gas wells.

    Hydro fracturing chemical cocktail formulas in shale gas companies are confidential. According to environmentalists, shale gas production leads to significant groundwater pollution with toluene, benzene, dimethylbenzene, ethylbenzene, arsenic, etc. Some companies use hydrochloric acid solution thickened with a polymer, 80-300 tons of chemicals are used for one hydraulic fracturing operation.

    During the production of shale gas, there are significant losses of methane, which leads to an increase in the greenhouse effect;
    shale gas production is profitable only if there is demand and high gas prices.

    The chemical mixture of Halliburton is about 1,53% of the total solution and includes: hydrochloric acid, formaldehyde, acetic anhydride, propargyl and methyl alcohols, ammonium chloride. Chesapeake Energy uses its chemical composition, but its volume in the hydraulic solution is much less - 0,5%. In general, gas producers use about 85 toxic substances for gas production, some of which have the following purposes:

    hydrochloric acid promotes the dissolution of minerals;
    ethylene glycol resists deposits on the inner walls of pipes;
    isopropyl alcohol, guar gum and boric acid are used as thickeners and viscosity support substances;
    glutaraldehyde and formamide resists corrosion;
    oil in light fractions is used to reduce friction;
    ammonium peroxodisulfate resists the breakdown of guar gum;
    potassium chloride interferes with chemical reactions between the liquid and the soil;
    sodium or potassium carbonate - to maintain acid balance.

    The most successful shale deposits belong to the Paleozoic and Mesozoic era, have a high level of gamma radiation, which correlates with the thermal maturity of the shale field. As a result of hydraulic fracturing, radiation enters the upper layer of sedimentary rocks, in areas of shale gas production, an increase in the radiation background is observed.
  • Lankov Victor
    Lankov Victor 4 February 2013 13: 46
    +2
    The history of shale gas is very reminiscent of exchange bubbles of mortgages and IT-technologies.
    It is also recalled that a century ago, before the Great Depression, AOs were organized for laying railways in the desert from nowhere to nowhere. Their shares traded very well on the stock exchange.
    Everyone knows how these bubbles ended.
  • 12061973
    12061973 4 February 2013 14: 06
    0
    if everything is so bad with the production of shale gas, then why has the development of the Shtokman shelf been stopped, where Gazprom has invested a lot of money.
  • Bresh
    Bresh 4 February 2013 14: 20
    0
    Quote: Aeneas
    Please, please, the deputy of the Kharkiv Regional Council of Batkivshchyna Ivan Varchenko, broadcast "Interfax-Ukraine".
    As a result of the document, investors will also not be able to rally the odds, but they will contract when selling foreign currency, using a mobile phone call, or when buying non-hassle and available cars.
    In such a rank, Shell and "Nadra Yuzivska", when developing the Yuzivskoy area, will pay a fee for income, MPE and pay for overcrowding.
    "Independently from the changes of Ukrainian legislation, the rate of tax on income for investors in the project is 19%, and in 2014 - 16%," the document says.
    The fee for coring the nadras is 1,25% for gas and 2% for naphtha.

    Don’t do it anymore ... I almost went blind while reading bully
  • potomak8
    potomak8 4 February 2013 14: 21
    +2
    An important but ordinary gas is two times more energy-efficient than shale gas.
  • Rus2012
    Rus2012 4 February 2013 14: 41
    0
    Quote: 12061973
    if everything is so bad with the production of shale gas, then why has the development of the Shtokman shelf been stopped, where Gazprom has invested a lot of money.


    I think everything is simple - the gas price has decreased, Gazprom has reduced production and optimized costs ...
    1. 12061973
      12061973 4 February 2013 18: 05
      0
      and why the price has dropped, maybe because of the oil shale.