And what will happen on the corvette of the project 58250, or We ourselves "з Vusami"

72
And what will happen on the corvette of the project 58250, or We ourselves "з Vusami"


Not so long ago, the site raised the question of what can be installed on the French UDC of the Mistral type.
Not dividing the “dead cat” among themselves, the two sides did the following: Russia decided to build large ships not on the territory of Ukraine, and Ukraine refused to buy Russian weapons for Ukrainian corvettes.

As a result of mutual political insults - a violation of logistics is simply “HIDDEN”. But in this case, political ambitions are stronger than economic dividends.

Whatever it was, but the construction of the lead ship from this series under the name "Vladimir the Great" is even ahead of schedule. The deadlines are shifted from spring 2015-th to autumn 2014 year.

At the beginning of the project, the 50 / 50 was planned, where half is the body, the refrigeration units, the power plant and a part of the navigation equipment will be Ukrainian-made, and we will buy everything that is not enough. But it turned out that the Ukrainian scientific school can provide domestic radio electronic and radar equipment. It is neither better nor worse — it is its own. As a result, the share of imported components has decreased to the proportion of 60 / 40 a and is approaching 70 / 30.



So what will stand on the corvette? Let's start with the Ukrainian samples:
Multi-purpose shipborne radar target designation complex MORENA;
Optical-radar station “Protazan-K” - Medium-caliber artillery shooting control system;
Multifunctional radar "Phoenix-U";
Optic-electronic station of circular review "Selena" - to control and monitor the location of the ship;
AP "VZOI-VZOR" - a system of mutual exchange of information and mutual orientation of the tactical group;
"Positive-1U" radar general detection of air and surface targets;
ORLS "Kopye-K" - to control small caliber artillery mounts;
Optic-electronic Saiga take-off and landing station;
Radio intelligence complex "Button";
Hydroacoustic complex "Zarnitsa";
The control system of the remote-controlled underwater vehicle - "KNPA-58250".

6-barreled ZFU "Hephaestus" mm 12,7 - 2 pcs.
The ASTER-15 air defense system was proposed to be replaced by the Dnepr complex.


The import component came into service. Ukraine itself did not produce ship weapon. Developing your own similar complexes for a small lot is economically unprofitable. The process of creating the project fell on a difficult period in the relations between Russia and Ukraine, and it was not possible to agree on the supply of Russian analogues, so we had to order from the Germans, Italians and the French. As a result, we have such a “soup set”:
PCR Exocet - 8 pcs.
Torpedo tubes В515 -2 by 3 pcs.
Artwork 76 / 62 Super Rapid - 1 pcs.
Art. Millennium, 35- mm Naval Gun System - 2 pcs.
Active Mass Protection System - 2 pcs.





It was originally planned to use the NH90 helicopter, but in connection with the development of a new helicopter based on the Mi-2, the purchase of an Italian-French car is unknown.

The biggest embarrassment is the price. The cost of the lead ship is estimated at 312 million euros, and the cost of subsequent 258 million euros. For comparison, the Turkish corvettes of the MILGEM project have a similar armament complex, but a slightly smaller displacement costs 260 million.
What kind of export can we talk about?


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72 comments
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  1. +5
    4 February 2013 09: 22
    Here, unlike Dixmund, this is a vivid example of the trough. Such an empty trough, although it may be with not bad seaworthiness.
    Still happy for the Ukrainian shipbuilders. (at least they will stay afloat, but there you look and the government of reason will be typed)
    1. +19
      4 February 2013 10: 46
      Well, it’s easy to break it, but building is much harder.
      The union was broken, like two fingers ... stuck in a cake. But to establish a new, good-neighborly cooperation is to work and work.
      Well, not what, God willing, reunite. Only patience must be gained ... And all these shipbuilding turmoil are just trifles.
      The Slavs divided their entire history between themselves, and when trouble pressed it, they united. And now it will be so.
      Kiev will play enough in independence, and the Kremlin - in arrogance. Then everyone will come exactly, both of them, to the need for unification. It is a pity only the time lost will be ....
      1. Stan badboy
        +5
        5 February 2013 02: 18
        I didn’t share anything with anyone. I myself live in Perm, but I communicate with Ukrainian guys a lot. But I don’t feel the difference. They don’t understand what they have in the Duma and Parliament. And we have exactly the same guys.
      2. +2
        5 February 2013 10: 20
        non-Slavs parasitizing among the Slavs divided. And then the Slavs have to restore.
        1. Simon bolivar
          +4
          5 February 2013 12: 36
          Ukraine is not a viable fragment of the red empire.
  2. demon ada
    +8
    4 February 2013 09: 33
    technical documentation in Ukrainian
    this is not for weak nerves)))).
    probably not a dozen decoders went crazy with laughter))))
    sounds interesting
    1. +1
      4 February 2013 10: 37
      So what's so funny? I understand that the Russian people are God's chosen .. but you don’t distort it .. bring the Ukrainian people, also Russians. And you laugh at the language of your ancestors as well!
      1. Kiev-Ukraine
        +32
        4 February 2013 11: 45
        The funny thing is that Ukrainians, in their Russophobia, are trying to create new words, not borrowing from Russian long ago invented. For example, an airport is "litovische", an elevator is "inter-superficial drotokhid", a gynecologist is "pikhvooglyach", and so on.
        1. Akim
          +6
          4 February 2013 11: 53
          Quote: Kiev-Ukraine
          from Russian long ago invented

          Not only did he translate incorrectly, but airport elevator и gynecologist - called in Russian words!
        2. black_eagle
          0
          4 February 2013 14: 22
          I see from you a good look! If you decide to humiliate yourself and everyone who lives in Ukraine, then bravo!
          1. barbell
            +9
            4 February 2013 19: 52
            the most offensive, black eagle, that he is right. even our Ukrainians and Ukrainians are outraged by this idiotic modification of the Ukrainian language. you can’t change the usual for the sake of anyone else. black eagle, I didn’t minus you, plus plus for your own position.
            1. black_eagle
              0
              4 February 2013 22: 19
              I agree, there are excesses of sticks, especially when they try to push words into the literary language from the dialect of the village of Krasny Passatizhi, which, apart from anyone else, have never heard, the Ukrainian language is currently complete, self-sufficient, and does not need any improvements. And still that would not accuse me of pseudo-patriotism, I was born and raised in the glorious city of Chelyabinsk, so Ukrainian for me is the second, not the first
        3. +4
          4 February 2013 22: 16
          Well, not so long ago and with us (more precisely in the USSR) the goalkeeper also became a goalkeeper wink
          And the airport - aero - English, the port - Latin and at the exit the Russian word airport fellow
        4. bremest
          +1
          5 February 2013 16: 40
          And they also have a word - PIDIDS .... this turned out to be the ACCESS.
          In 2011, I was in Kiev, lived in the city center, in a house reminiscent of our Stalinist skyscrapers, when I went into the staircase I read this word on a tablet, I almost fell out of laughter .. laughing
          1. Jake danzels
            0
            13 September 2013 12: 15
            Not PIDIZD, but "Pid'їzd", which make up the words "Pid" - under, "їzd" - to drive.
            In general, yes, you pushed hard. Vaganych is not your relative?
        5. Strider
          0
          13 February 2014 01: 02
          Apparently you are very far from the Ukrainian language!
      2. +8
        4 February 2013 15: 49
        Regarding the documentation in Ukrainian, the question is not idle. There is a serious problem in transferring and developing technical documentation into another language. This problem lies in the possibility of different interpretations of terms and inaccurate transmission of technical information.
        Does the Ukrainian language have a comprehensive set of technical terms? Is there an unambiguous translation of Russian phrases into Ukrainian? The question is complex, and the ambiguity of the translation can lead to a change in the characteristics of the product. Answer these questions and the problem disappears.
        There are only a few languages ​​that are self-sufficient in terms of describing technical documentation. Russian is such. But about the Ukrainian, I doubt it. There will certainly be borrowings from other languages, and this will only worsen the situation. Maybe then it’s better to immediately switch to English, so as not to use Russian?
        1. Akim
          +2
          4 February 2013 15: 57
          Quote: pechv
          There is a serious problem in transferring and developing technical documentation into another language. This problem lies in the possibility of different interpretations of terms and inaccurate transmission of technical information.

          Like most here, I have in addition to the military and technical specialties. There were no problems. These are all prejudices.
          1. +7
            4 February 2013 16: 26
            You are mistaken, the reprint, namely the translation into the Ukrainian language, of the technical documents of the USSR (RD, TU, GOST, OST, SNiP, ENiR, etc.) is still taking place. As a rule, for the worse (for example, the Soviet RD 31-35-10-86 Operation of port facilities, they translated into Ukrainian and "accidentally" forgot the chapter "Rear sites", now soil mechanics in Ukraine is different). According to other documents, the same x .....
          2. black_eagle
            +2
            4 February 2013 16: 51
            +, absolutely right! Technical literature in Ukrainian existed both now and during the Soviet era, and the fact that pechv I didn’t see it, and it’s not surprising, the literature is highly specialized, and it was used on the territory of only one republic, and not a single engineer has any problems with the translation of the documentation. This is frank nonsense!
            1. +8
              4 February 2013 17: 41
              This is so, as a joke -
              << ==================
              Question
              Please tell me how the "iron-containing waste" will be in Ukrainian
              - zalіzomіstyachi vidhodi
              - zalіzomіsnі vidhodi
              - your option
              home dictionary and at work everyone thinks in Russian. THANK
              Response
              I think it would be right to "come in, take revenge on the zalizo"
              ==================== >>
              In no case do not want to offend the Ukrainian language and the glorious inhabitants of Ukraine
          3. Misantrop
            +8
            4 February 2013 22: 11
            Quote: Akim
            I have in addition to the military and technical specialty. There were no problems. These are all prejudices.

            If this were so, at Ukrainian nuclear power plants would be used mov. So far, it has been banned CATEGORically (including at the request of international organizations). The price of a possible mistake is too high; nobody wants a second Chernobyl.
            1. Akim
              +5
              4 February 2013 22: 21
              Quote: Misantrop
              If this were so, at Ukrainian nuclear power plants would be used mov

              It is not used for another reason, because everyone there speaks Russian and studied Russian. It’s all the same, as one shift supervisor, I decided in Donetsk at a Ukrainian metallurgical plant to communicate with everyone. He was fired and done right. Imagine what would happen when the metal was drained!
              1. Misantrop
                +3
                4 February 2013 22: 47
                Quote: Akim
                It is not used for another reason.

                Just for the above. As a nuclear scientist, I know for sure wink
                1. Akim
                  0
                  4 February 2013 22: 51
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  As a nuclear scientist, I know for sure

                  Nuclear scientists know better, but in other industries there is a purely subjective reason. It all depends on the circle of friends.
                  1. +5
                    5 February 2013 11: 51
                    You are mistaken, it is also forbidden in the fleet, the marine language is Russian, English, German, Spanish, French, and all. Even the Chinese are required to know one of the above.
                    1. Akim
                      0
                      5 February 2013 12: 14
                      Quote: Val_Y

                      You are mistaken, the navy is also prohibited, the sea language

                      In the Navy, I don’t know who would even think to translate into Ukrainian, but in the Navy it is calmly applied. Naturally, everything is mainly in Russian, but if necessary, at the sight of the authorities, it is easy to rebuild ..
            2. Jake danzels
              -1
              13 September 2013 12: 19
              I didn’t know. All of his wife’s relatives work in Rivne AES and speak Ukrainian there.
              Although if you want I can clarify :) So just in case.
        2. Avenger711
          +1
          4 February 2013 16: 48
          Ukrainian technical does not exist. As well as conversational.
          1. 0
            4 February 2013 22: 22
            - There is no god. C. Marx
            - K.Marx is gone. God
            laughing
          2. 0
            4 February 2013 22: 23
            Ukrainian technical does not exist. As well as conversational.

            - There is no god. C. Marx
            - K.Marx is gone. God
            laughing
          3. +8
            4 February 2013 22: 26
            Avenger711,
            Ukrainian technical does not exist. As well as conversational.

            - There is no god. C. Marx
            - K.Marx is gone. God
            laughing ]
          4. Kaa
            +10
            5 February 2013 05: 09
            Quote: Avenger711
            Ukrainian technical does not exist. As well as conversational

            Ukrainian mythmakers claim that the ancient Old Ukrainian language was spoken by no less than the ancient Ukrainian nation (I remind her of 140 years from the textbooks of Ukraine, i.e. 000 years more than the whole of humanity began to form as early as the 100th century. Of course, this nonsense is not confirmed not some written monuments and documents of ancient Russia. Historical documents on the basis of which such conclusions can be drawn simply do not exist. In 000-6 centuries, ancient Russia spoke and wrote in ONE ancient RUSSIAN language. Of course, it had regional differences related to the local colloquial and alien church -Slavic language. Where did the Little Russian dialect come from? This is the Old Russian language abundantly diluted with Polish borrowings. As a result of everyday communication of Russian slaves in the Commonwealth with their hosts. And having adopted for several centuries the words and turns of the language of the Polish gentry. It’s the language of the village, it’s beautiful and melodious ... But it’s too primitive ... To be the language of literature and science. There are no written documents that at least resemble modern Ukrainian simply. Take the documents of Khmelnitsky or the documents of the Rusyns of Galicia. Ancient Russian is easily guessed in them. I will not say anything about the famous Orlik constitution written in Russian and in Swedish, by the way, too. Taras Shevchenko also wrote only a part of his works in this dialect, splashing out the fierce anger of the former serf on their masters. But neither Shevchenko nor Kotlyarevsky did not hear about the Ukrainian mov .. By the way, diaries, and this is very personal Kobzar wrote in Russian and called his homeland Little Russia i.e. he did not know such a thing as Ukraine. The Austrian-Polish authorities of Galicia, with the aim of creating the Ukrainian nation, decided to develop a language different from Russian for it. In order to maximize the differences, the basis of the ARTificially created Ukazin language was not laid out in the Poltava-Cherkasy dialect of the Russian dialect, but in the central and eastern regions, the polished Galician. A new language was introduced based on phonetic spelling. As I hear and write. But Ukrainian-Russophobes did not stop only on phonetics. From the Russian alphabet they threw out such letters as Y, E, Kommersant. For a greater difference from the Russian language, individual Russian words were deliberately thrown out. But they were replaced by Polish, German or new ones were invented. This is easy to track if you take the dictionaries of German and Polish words.. Such words were not even used by Judas-Mazepa and his right hand, Orlik, who incidentally perfectly mastered his native POLISH language, of which there are numerous documents. So, by the decree of the Austrian parliament, at the end of the 19th century, the artificially invented Ukrainian language was born, which was not when it was not native to young Russians
            1. Kaa
              +3
              5 February 2013 05: 10
              Austro-Polish philologists at the beginning of the 20th century begin to export the invented ukro-mov to Little Russia. In major cities, they organize the publication of periodicals on it, publish books .. Local readers could not read books printed on it. and as a result, all this ended in failure. Editions in just a few issues ordered a long life. During the revolution, attempts to introduce ukramova also led to the collapse of this venture. And only with the coming to power of the Bolsheviks, who by the way for some reason do not like Svidomo, they should pray for them. The uramova created in Galicia was planted in all spheres of public life. During the tough Soviet Ukrainization carried out by Kagonovich. He emphasized not the people, but the party-state apparatus. And for the 50 army invited from Galicia to the Enlightenment. By administrative methods, the Ukrainian press, publishing, radio, cinema and theater were Ukrainianized. It was FORBIDDEN to duplicate even signs and announcements in Russian. Learning the Russian language was in fact equal to learning a foreign language. For ignorance of the servile language, anyone could lose work, and sometimes life. As a result, even according to US studies, 83% of the population of Ukraine today prefer to communicate in Russian. http://alternathistory.org.ua/kholopsko-polskii-yazyk-ego-proiskhozhdenie
              1. yurasumy
                0
                5 February 2013 16: 02
                I'm afraid you are wrong.
                Here is your thesis: "As a result of everyday communication of Russian slaves in the Commonwealth with their hosts."
                Question: why is the Ukrainian language of the left bank spoken by the villagers similar to the language spoken by the villagers of the Right Bank? After all, under the Rzecz Pospolita, the Left Bank was only from 1569-1647 (and even then the Polonization concerned only cities, and in the village the Poles were seen, if only by chance.) The right bank, especially the western one, was under Poland until the end of the 18th century. Why do we not see the results of polonization. Next, you compared the Polish language of the 17th century and at least the 19th century. So the Polish language of the 16th century is much closer to Old Russian than the current one. One gets the impression that the Polish language separated from the Old Russian not earlier than the 15-16th centuries, especially under the strict guidance of the "Jesuits". And the intensified polonization of Ukraine in the 16-17th centuries is a bullshit invented by historians not earlier than the 19th century. That Russian, that Ukrainian, that Belarusian, that Polish were very close in the 17th century (just some used Cyrillic, others Latin). And the impact on the rural population of any of these peoples until the 20th century was ruled out due to the poor literacy of the population. As for the invention of "ukr-movi", by someone less believe any scribblers. My great-grandmother was born in 1903. for example, with whom I spoke personally, spoke in this Ukrainian-mov, my great-great-grandfather, born in 1869. According to the recollections of my grandfather, it turns out that he also spoke on this mov. Those are almost 40 years old. which I know Ukrainian-Mova in my village has not changed in any way. That's about Galicia, yes. I have the testimony of a person (he is now almost 60 years old). He comes from the Yaremchinsky district. So, according to him, he really taught Ukrainian. language as a foreign one. It was he who told me so. "For me, both Ukrainian (literary) and Russian are foreign." I agree here. Galicia was specially Ukrainianized for the literary Ukrainian language in the 20th century.
      3. +7
        4 February 2013 16: 33
        Unfortunately, apart from the names of the months, there is nothing left of the ancestors in the Ukrainian "language", and even then these names have something in common with the Polish ones. Polish-Russian-Tatar village surzhik! Gothelis, palaces, maidans, the Cossack Mamai (in Russia there is a tale "About the Mamaev Massacre"), pushing, etc. This is not very similar to the Slavic language of the ancestors, where guests were accommodated in hotels, the nobility lived in palaces, and the people "seethed" in the squares ...
        1. Akim
          +2
          4 February 2013 16: 52
          Quote: nnz226
          guests were accommodated in hotels, the nobility lived in palaces, and the people "seethed" in the squares

          There have never been hotels in Russia - only a guest house. and the people raged on the Maidan. And the palaces appeared after the royal chambers.
        2. mamba
          +1
          5 February 2013 11: 22
          Quote: nnz226
          except for the names of the months, in the Ukrainian "language" nothing remained of the ancestors, and even then these names have something in common with the Polish ones. Polish-Russian-Tatar village surzhik!

          But these names of the months are common Slavic: Ukrainian, Belarusian, Polish, Czech, Croatian, Slovenian languages ​​use Slavic names. Even in the Lithuanian language, the Baltic names of the months are preserved, partially coinciding with the Slavic, which suggests that some of these names date back to the time of the Baltic Slavic unity.
          And they departed from Slavic roots in this area: Russian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Upper Luzhitsky, Serbian, Slovak.
      4. Misantrop
        +4
        4 February 2013 22: 06
        Quote: d1m1drol
        And you laugh at the language of your ancestors as well!
        The ancestors had warships of a different design. Ukrainian technical for now, simply NO, no matter how anyone claims the opposite. Moreover, all shipyards and factories are located in the southeast (where traditionally technical is Russian). And when designing new weapons, butting with unsustainable terminology is an extra brain
      5. 0
        5 February 2013 00: 15
        Quote: d1m1drol
        And you laugh at the language of your ancestors as well!

        I would like more details on the topic "Ukrainian is the language of the Russian ancestors." Since it follows from the available information that the Ukrainian language began to form during the time of Gogol and Pushkin. If there is other information, then give a link to a historical document written in Ukrainian, but at an earlier period.

        In my opinion, Russian Ukrainians, Belarusians are one nation that politicians are artificially divided by state borders.
      6. mamba
        +2
        5 February 2013 11: 05
        Quote: d1m1drol
        Ukrainian people, also Russia. And you laugh at the language of your ancestors as well!

        It is enough to recall the names of the months of the year in the Ukrainian language: birch - March, grass - May, lime - July, fallow - August, spring - September, fall - November, snow - December, lute - February. This is what the Russian language departed from in favor of foreign words. These are truly Slavic names. You listen to them, and the soul rejoices.
        However, the language does not need to be blamed for foreign borrowing. They only enrich it, expanding vocabulary and increasing the number of shades of speech. And foreign words that have not taken root will die themselves. That is why in the Russian language there is not such a huge number of meanings of the same word as in wretched English vocabulary. I do not envy English-language simultaneous interpreters, who must instantly scroll through their head all the translation options for a given context before choosing the most literary option.
        1. yurasumy
          0
          5 February 2013 16: 24
          I completely agree. In the list of months, Zhovten-October will also not be superfluous (when the foliage turns yellow)
    2. +3
      4 February 2013 21: 11
      Quote: demon ada
      technical documentation in Ukrainian
      this is not for weak nerves)))).

      Calm Demon! Translators also want to eat! And besides, we will save you health! We are already familiar people, but you can get out of habit and burst with laughter! fellow
    3. +1
      6 February 2013 00: 57
      You don’t understand, only residents of Ukraine (almost always Russian-speaking) can criticize Ukrainian, if someone else does it, then we are offended crying
  3. connect30
    +2
    4 February 2013 10: 18
    What's so funny? There are no errors. I wanted to be more specific - what is "not for weak nerves"? Or is it like a laugh from the finger?
    1. Maxno
      -1
      4 February 2013 21: 56
      Approximately true.
    2. +1
      4 February 2013 23: 16
      Quote: connect30
      Wanted for more specific

      Offhand - Centrifuge-vidsrednitsya, though with phrases we have to remember differently, but at least insert a solid r with a western tail!
      sedimentation centrifuge - osadzhuvalny centrifuge,
      centrifugality - vіdcentrovіst,
      In general, when ordered to "switch to MOV for everyone," many research institutes began to rivet their own terms, according to the principle "if only not in Russian," while even in institutes of the same direction, the same Russian terms were designated differently.
  4. 0
    4 February 2013 10: 24
    The Aster air defense system is replaced by the Dnieper air defense system. I have not heard anything about the Ukrainian air defense system Dnepr. Perhaps this is what the Belarusian Stiletto was called in marine design, under which the missiles are developed by KB Luch.
    1. Akim
      0
      4 February 2013 10: 40
      "Stiletto" - = this is a joint development. Ukrainian missile and Belarusian SU with chassis. Dnipro is the Ukrainian version.
      1. Akim
        0
        4 February 2013 19: 45
        Here is a French ship-based ASTER-15 SAM
        1. 0
          4 February 2013 20: 28
          It is unclear why 76 mm, he is senseless about it according to the Turkish schooner, the Katran illegally fishing is better than 40 mm, or already 57.
          1. Akim
            +2
            4 February 2013 20: 45
            Here's what a 76mm Italian cannon can do.
            1. -1
              4 February 2013 20: 58
              The Swede also fires programmed shells. With one firing point, this is doubtful as a missile defense system. Better is it reliant on anti-aircraft missiles.
              Neglecting already that such an application is very doubtful and unlikely. Neglecting already about the cost of ammunition and how often they can conduct training firing.

              Also, if against PCR we consider the rate of fire of smaller caliber systems higher.
              1. Akim
                0
                4 February 2013 21: 04
                Andrei, are we shipbuilders or sailors? No. What is more visible to them there. Since the caliber is 76-100 mm head in all corvettes of the world, probably it is necessary?
                1. 0
                  4 February 2013 21: 18
                  Quote: Akim
                  What is better for them?

                  What they know best is likely.
                  But for example, this didn’t prevent the designers and the carabel from making many controversial decisions, which even turned out to be erroneous in the end.
                  Quote: Akim
                  probably all the corvettes of the world?

                  Sometimes it’s not worth focusing on EVERYTHING. A ship is being built with our money for Ukraine as well.
                  as for export - it’s all the same if you are lucky the one who pays the money will rule the ball. for the Thai Stronghold more than 50 changes have been made.

                  I am not at all sure of the need for this series at this stage.
                  An alternative would be to complete the completion of the RK Ukraine. Moreover, the commissioning of such a ship would greatly change the balance, so the ability to sell it and with this money already build new corvettes or watchtowers will be much larger if it is ready.
                  1. Akim
                    +2
                    4 February 2013 21: 28
                    Quote: Kars
                    An alternative would be to complete the completion of the RK Ukraine. Moreover, the commissioning of such a ship would greatly change the balance, so the ability to sell it and with this money already build new corvettes or watchtowers will be much larger if it is ready.

                    Here you can argue. Firstly, he eats fuel like all Ukrainian Navy combined. Secondly, he is cramped in the Black Sea puddle, and we are not Russia, the Turks will not let us through Beaufort. And in the third. We simply do not have weapons on it. Missile boats are decommissioned, because there are no Russian anti-ship missiles., And then a whole cruiser.
                    1. 0
                      4 February 2013 21: 33
                      Quote: Akim
                      Firstly, he eats fuel like all Ukrainian Navy combined

                      This is because our fleet rarely goes to sea.
                      Quote: Akim
                      Secondly, he is cramped in the Black Sea puddle

                      What is this expressed in?
                      Quote: Akim
                      Turks won't let us through Beaufort

                      Obligated. And why do we need to leave the Black Sea? Just maybe we can use it so that we can get a definite answer from the Turks about the gas carriers that they obstruct.
                      Quote: Akim
                      We just don’t have weapons on it

                      Here is the KB Southern puzzle.
                      Quote: Akim
                      and here is the whole cruiser

                      And here there are few options - he still eats money, more than fuel for the entire Ukrainian Navy. And it will be more difficult to sell it every year.
                      1. Maxno
                        0
                        4 February 2013 21: 59
                        Quote: Kars
                        This is because our fleet rarely goes to sea.

                        - regularly
                        Quote: Kars
                        Here is the KB Southern puzzle.

                        - For one ship?
                        Quote: Kars
                        And here there are few options - he still eats money, more than fuel for the entire Ukrainian Navy. And it will be more difficult to sell it every year.

                        - No one will sell it.
                      2. +1
                        4 February 2013 22: 30
                        Quote: Maxno
                        - regularly

                        this is a very loose concept.
                        Quote: Maxno
                        - For one ship?

                        Well, we’re hungry for one, missile systems are all the same not 16 inch towers of GK battleships. If you can do them wisely, you can put them on a cruiser, on a corvette, and on a BOD with a boat. And do not buy Exosets. Also upgrade coastal missile batteries if there something else remains.
                        Quote: Maxno
                        No one will sell it

                        But in vain, a million dollars of losses per year. But it’s a pity to cut metal.
                      3. Maxno
                        -1
                        5 February 2013 00: 17
                        Quote: Kars
                        this is a very loose concept.

                        - This year, ships go on constant combat alert at sea.

                        A three-day stretch of the protichovic corvette of the Vіyskovo-Morsky Forces of the Ukrainian Forces of Ukraine “Ternopil” near the Black Sea, having lowered the initial naval commanders, including the right to combat. Zokrem, half an hour entering the sea ekpazh pid command for captain 3rd rank Oleg Grigor’v vidpratsovuv in the course zavdannya from sailing a single ship, preparation for the conduct of combat dui.


                        Quote: Kars
                        But in vain, a million dollars of losses per year. But it’s a pity to cut metal.

                        - Nobody buys it, so there will probably be a museum.
                      4. 0
                        5 February 2013 01: 31
                        Quote: Maxno
                        This year, ships go on constant combat alert at sea.

                        I say the concept is loose. Even in the quote a single ship.

                        So you need to look in comparison with someone.
                        Quote: Maxno
                        Nobody buys it, so there will probably be a museum.

                        Museum WHAT? Long-term? It has no historical value.
                        I personally wouldn’t subscribe to buy it and make an entertainment center or a museum. Even if you take it for a long time, you don’t need to - a loss-making job.

                        But combat-ready, you can try to sell. And buyers will also be found.
                      5. Maxno
                        -1
                        5 February 2013 18: 58
                        You are a philosopher and dumbbell, and this concept is not extensible - but a fact.
                        - Do not annoy yourself.
                    2. Maxno
                      0
                      4 February 2013 21: 57
                      Quote: Akim
                      Here you can argue. Firstly, he eats fuel like all Ukrainian Navy combined. Secondly, he is cramped in the Black Sea puddle, and we are not Russia, the Turks will not let us through Beaufort. And in the third. We simply do not have weapons on it. Missile boats are decommissioned, because there are no Russian anti-ship missiles., And then a whole cruiser.

                      “There are a lot of Russian systems and weapons on it, and no one will sell this to us greedily.
                      1. Cat basilio
                        0
                        6 February 2013 08: 13
                        wassat Did you notice that too? And a "small-town rural demagogue".))))))
                  2. yormunrex
                    +1
                    30 September 2013 14: 01
                    The completion of the RK Ukraine is a road to nowhere; shipbuilding can be revived only by building a series of ships.
        2. +1
          4 February 2013 22: 30
          This is a photo of RCC Harpoon laughing
        3. -1
          5 February 2013 16: 53
          Actually, it’s PKKR harpoon
          1. Akim
            -1
            5 February 2013 17: 07
            sanya0974,
            I agree, my mistake.
            Here is the ASTER-15 SAM. It is vertical based.

            1. Akim
              -1
              5 February 2013 17: 27
              Here they are on Lafayette-class frigates. There are 16 of them on the front tank, but the water capacity is 700 tons more than that of the Ukrainian corvette.

              Here they are on the Italian "Freda"

              1. 0
                5 February 2013 17: 41
                ________________
    2. Valter
      0
      4 February 2013 17: 03
      http://uos.ua/perspektivnie-razrabotki/mnogokanalniy-zenitniy-raketniy-kompleks-
      sredney-dalnosti-dnepr
    3. Valter
      0
      4 February 2013 17: 04
      http://uos.ua/perspektivnie-razrabotki/mnogokanalniy-zenitniy-raketniy-kompleks-
      sredney-dalnosti-dnepr
    4. Valter
      +2
      4 February 2013 17: 09
      Information about air defense system Dnipro:
      http://uos.ua/perspektivnie-razrabotki/mnogokanalniy-zenitniy-raketniy-kompleks-
      sredney-dalnosti-dnepr
      1. Akim
        0
        4 February 2013 17: 20
        And I wonder who has heard about the 6-barreled rotary machine-gun mounts "Hephaestus"? There is an order for their development, because they will be installed on all new ships and boats (including river ones), on light helicopters and on other similar crap.
        1. barbell
          0
          4 February 2013 20: 04
          Akim, thanks for the attempts, but all these words are your good words are not worth it.
          1. Akim
            +1
            4 February 2013 20: 15
            barbell,
            But you always want to believe in the best. Pessemism should not be peculiar to man.
            1. barbell
              +1
              4 February 2013 21: 33
              Dear Akim, I also want to believe in the best, but there are no prerequisites for this plus for you, but it does not solve anything.
              1. Maxno
                0
                4 February 2013 22: 00
                barbell,
                “Speak like that, and maybe - you can go to bed almost calmly today.”
      2. +1
        4 February 2013 22: 34
        It’s interesting, but the radar with AFAR already really exists (in the sense somewhere it was written about the beginning of its tests) or is it still dreams project? (really interesting)
        1. +1
          5 February 2013 10: 01
          Radar with headlamps is an old topic. For ships and air defense (radar low-flying targets), they were massively produced back in the 80s. In Ukraine, the Zaporizhzhya Iskra factory has been dealing with this topic since the time of the Union, and Kiev QUANT Radar can also catch up ... Here are the aircraft headlights, yes, yes.
          1. beard999
            +1
            5 February 2013 17: 30
            Quote: Aeneas
            Radar with headlamps is an old topic. For ships and air defense (radar low-flying targets), they were massively produced back in the 80s. In Ukraine, the Zaporizhzhya Iskra factory has been dealing with this topic since the time of the Union, and Kiev QUANT Radar can also be pulled up

            I will not say anything for the "Kiev QUANT Radar", but the Iskra plant, during the Soviet era, did nothing for the Navy, and AFAR was never engaged. The history of the enterprise can be viewed on the official website http://www.iskra.zp.ua/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21&Itemid=2&
            lang = ru. What Iskra is releasing today is also well known http://www.iskra.zp.ua/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=
            3 & Itemid = 3 & lang = ru. Of the presented radar samples, with AFAR there is nothing close there.
  5. avt
    +11
    4 February 2013 10: 39
    Yeah ... survived! We discuss the construction of the corvette after everything that was built at the Nikolaev shipyards request .......
    1. barbell
      +3
      4 February 2013 20: 17
      Forget it, dear, about these tricks. they are no more, and in the foreseeable future their resuscitation is not expected. Hooray, Ukraine is Vilnius, Tilki Ne May may have hairless pants! (Doesn’t have his own trousers, who doesn’t understand Ukrainian)
    2. Maxno
      +1
      4 February 2013 22: 01
      Quote: avt
      We discuss the construction of the corvette after everything that was built at the Nikolaev shipyards

      - This is a wonderful corvette, in the best traditions of the shipbuilding complex of Ukraine. Correctly said earlier - "sweetie"
  6. borisst64
    +2
    4 February 2013 11: 08
    Judging by the state of the Ukrainian fleet (Sevastopol), it was decided to spit on the existing one and build a new one. Well, it will be interesting to see.
    1. barbell
      0
      4 February 2013 21: 47
      wildly sorry, most assiduous, but the Ukrainian fleet is the same as the Swiss, His Majesty, the Royal Navy.
      1. Maxno
        0
        4 February 2013 22: 03
        Quote: halter
        wildly sorry, most assiduous, but the Ukrainian fleet is the same as the Swiss, His Majesty, the Royal Navy.

        - It’s true that the Black Sea Fleet Navy is no match for the berth.
    2. Maxno
      -1
      4 February 2013 22: 02
      Quote: borisst64
      Judging by the state of the Ukrainian fleet (Sevastopol), it was decided to spit on the existing one and build a new one. Well, it will be interesting to see.

      “Well, it's time to build.”
  7. garik404
    +3
    4 February 2013 12: 11
    The biggest embarrassment is the price. The cost of the lead ship is estimated at 312 million euros, and the cost of subsequent 258 million euros. For comparison, the Turkish corvettes of the MILGEM project have a similar armament complex, but a slightly smaller displacement costs 260 million.
    =======================================
    Well, if you interpret the price list correctly, then
    1. The estimated cost of building the lead ship is estimated at 312 million euros, given the cost of ammunition.
    2. The estimated cost of building ships in serial production is 258 million euros. indicated without the cost of ammunition.
    3. The question is, is the cost of ammunition taken into account when buying Turkish corvettes ??? Plus I want to add a price of 260 lyam was not announced at the official level, but appeared in a Turkish newspaper November 12 2010 years http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/16281229.asp?gid=373
    1. Akim
      0
      4 February 2013 12: 33
      garik404,
      I don’t read Turkish. I asked in English a question on the Turk forum - he answered. Then I read it in a couple of English-language publications. Naturally, I did not see official documents. And the estimated price of the Ukrainian corvette is also not the final amount. One helicopter costs $ 8 million. And if its analogue is cheaper.
      1. Akim
        0
        4 February 2013 15: 43
        Quote: Akim
        One helicopter costs $ 8 million. And if its analogue is cheaper.

        I looked on Wikipedia (I understand an unreliable source). The price of NH90 is 31 million Euros. The export price of the Ka-29 is $ 30 million. Aviakon promises a marine version of the helicopter up to $ 10 million. (but slightly smaller in size). You can imagine how much you can save on only one helicopter! The truth is still stolen.
    2. +3
      4 February 2013 16: 28
      And the rollback, you forgot, the world prices are about 10%, and with us, on the contrary, 90% hi
    3. +2
      4 February 2013 21: 17
      Quote: garik404
      Estimated cost .....

      Did you forget to include the cost of kickbacks? So much for the "difference"
      1. Maxno
        -1
        4 February 2013 22: 04
        Quote: Egoza
        Did you forget to include the cost of kickbacks? So much for the "difference"

        - Rollback is the word of the Russian GOZ.
        1. +2
          4 February 2013 22: 38
          From colleagues who worked with enterprises supplying MOUs, their standard rollback was 60% laughing
  8. evil hamster
    +3
    4 February 2013 12: 21
    Whatever it was, but the construction of the lead ship from this series under the name "Vladimir the Great" is even ahead of schedule. The deadlines are shifted from spring 2015-th to autumn 2014 year.

    From commenting only on this phrase. To surrender it in the fall of 14, it should already be on the water, and given the number of new Ukrainian radar weapons and systems, as well as the need to make friends with foreign weapons, it should already be in the water.
    1. Akim
      +1
      4 February 2013 12: 35
      Delivery and commissioning are two different things. It can still be tested for two years.
      1. evil hamster
        +1
        4 February 2013 13: 17
        The surrender is the passage of the state and adoption, and in no other way, because if so judged, Yuri Dolgoruky has already been handed over for about 3 years, but the flag has been raised only this hour.
        1. Akim
          -1
          4 February 2013 13: 45
          evil hamster,
          Corvette "Boyky" has already been commissioned by the shipyard as a year and a half ago, but is not yet part of the floa.
          1. Sokol peruna
            +3
            4 February 2013 14: 06
            Akim
            Corvette "Boyky" has already been commissioned by the shipyard as a year and a half ago, but is not yet part of the floa.

            It doesn't work that way. In order to hand over the ship, the GCC and the Navy must sign an acceptance certificate. The act is signed upon the successful completion of the state. tests. Now "Boyky" is undergoing the second stage of sea trials after which it will go to state trials. The corvette will enter the Navy this spring.
          2. evil hamster
            +1
            4 February 2013 14: 08
            No, he has passed acceptance tests, but he will be handed over when they sign the corresponding act and transfer the ship from the ownership of the plant to the ownership of the Navy. The same will mean that the shipyard has fulfilled its obligations and the ship is tested and ready for operation.
            1. Akim
              -1
              4 February 2013 14: 13
              evil hamster,
              Ok, then consider I corrected the text: launching dates are shifted from spring 2015 to autumn 2014. So good?
              1. evil hamster
                0
                4 February 2013 15: 03
                Yes, it’s quite real, maybe even faster
                1. Maxno
                  -2
                  4 February 2013 22: 05
                  Quote: evil hamster
                  Yes, it’s quite real, maybe even faster

                  “Maybe how politics will accelerate the war’s entry in the Caucasus.”
    2. +2
      4 February 2013 16: 30
      Pomnitsa, the "Gaydamak" tug was going ahead of schedule, though it was commissioned a year later bully
  9. +5
    4 February 2013 12: 56
    In any case, it is good that the Ukrainian shipbuilders began to work again and restore the skills of both the engineering school and the working specialties. No one can say with confidence that aircraft carriers for Russia will not be laid again at Nikolaev shipyards. No matter how many politicians drive a wedge between us, history has always reunited Holy Russia. And let this reunion be better when Ukraine becomes stronger and stronger. And it will be easier for Russia and Ukraine not to be ashamed, there will be no sense of impaired dignity (dreams are true, but sincere).
    1. Maxno
      -2
      4 February 2013 22: 06
      Quote: Victor
      that at the Nikolaev shipyards again aircraft carriers for Russia will not be laid.

      “That will never happen again.”
      Quote: Victor
      And let this reunion be better when Ukraine is stronger and stronger

      To this and goes.
      1. +1
        5 February 2013 12: 45
        Quote: Maxno

        Quote: Victor
        that at the Nikolaev shipyards again aircraft carriers for Russia will not be laid.

        “That will never happen again.”


        DO NOT SEE GOP. Mazepa also claimed that with sworn mos .... there will never be peace. The fact that you do not want this does not mean that you do not want everyone who lives in Ukraine.
  10. +5
    4 February 2013 14: 38
    No words, only emotions ... Blacks and others ... we forgive billions of dollars from the shoulder of the lord, but we can’t agree with the Slav brothers. What the hell is this happening ...
    1. +5
      4 February 2013 15: 13
      I did not comprehend the message of your post - you desired:
      1. Forgive everyone !!!!
      2. Do not forgive anyone !!!
      Which one is that?
      PS Did it ever occur to you that it is SIMPLE impossible to agree with some comrades?
  11. +2
    4 February 2013 16: 26
    Ukraine will not buy Russian weapons for corvettes due to the fact that we will not build Mistral at its shipyards? Well, this is from the series: I will stick out my eye, let my mother-in-law have a curve in-law. The cost of building the Mistral and the payment for weapons systems are disproportionate.
    1. Akim
      +1
      4 February 2013 16: 42
      Vladimirets,
      Do you really understand everything as "white" and "black". The contract for the armament of corvettes was signed back in 2008. The period was difficult. In addition, the Ukrainian corvette is a competitor to the Russian one. Why does the mala feed, so that it then has the right to pump the beginning? Is it just the UDC ...
      1. barbell
        0
        4 February 2013 21: 55
        So, you are a smart person, but my Russia will never buy anything from the enemies and sell nothing to the enemy. And Ukraine is positioning itself as my enemy to my homeland. my homeland, by the way, is the Soviet Union.
    2. Maxno
      -3
      4 February 2013 22: 08
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Ukraine will not buy Russian weapons for corvettes due to the fact that we will not build Mistral at its shipyards? Well, this is from the series: I will stick out my eye, let my mother-in-law have a curve in-law. The cost of building the Mistral and the payment for weapons systems are disproportionate.

      - The Russian Federation has nothing to buy, but what is there is marriage and junk. And especially important is the traditional political instability of the Russian Federation.
  12. Good Ukraine
    +5
    4 February 2013 17: 49
    Ukraine will build a corvette for 300 million Euros, and then sell it to China for 3 million Yuan. It will be ours. Fortunately, an example is already there.
    The Russian’s hardships were strangled.

    Who the hell is needed with someone else's armament?
    Any electronics today is disconnected via satellite. And who needs a trough in the sea?
    1. Maxno
      -2
      4 February 2013 22: 10
      Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
      Ukraine will build a corvette for 300 million Euros, and then sell it to China for 3 million Yuan. It will be ours. Fortunately, there is already an example. Russian Lies strangled themselves.

      You are writing something awkward. But the Russian Federation still chokes.
      Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
      Who the hell is needed with someone else's armament?

      “Torpedoes could be the best with their own and best weapons - but Ukraine is not yet in NATO.”
  13. +1
    4 February 2013 18: 27
    As for other people's weapons, this is for sure. It is worth remembering how the Iraqi air defense systems, produced by France and the United States, worked during Operation Desert Storm. Is it that the Ukrainians are counting on joining NATO?
    1. Maxno
      -1
      4 February 2013 22: 10
      Quote: Ralex
      Is it that the Ukrainians expect to join NATO?

      - Definitely.
      1. wax
        +3
        4 February 2013 22: 49
        But in NATO they will immediately become their own and will decide with whom and with what to fight? Do not tell my horseshoes.
        1. +1
          4 February 2013 23: 20
          Quote: Wax
          And in NATO they will immediately become theirs

          Not! NATO will be ordered to sew uniforms according to NATO standards, to purchase weapons as in NATO, .... can you imagine how much you can steal along the way?
          1. Maxno
            -3
            5 February 2013 00: 13
            Quote: Egoza
            No! NATO will be ordered to sew uniforms according to NATO standards, to purchase weapons as in NATO

            - This is ordinary nonsense. But not the point - as it will be so, we are already moving to NATO's best standards.
            1. Tsoi is alive
              +2
              5 February 2013 00: 17
              Quote: Maxno
              But not the point - as it will be so, we are already moving to NATO's best standards.

              Have Taburetkin been hired in Ukraine?

              Or

              NATO standards ... is it when the troops are disbanded so that these troops can brutally crush the internal uprisings?
              1. Maxno
                -3
                5 February 2013 00: 20
                Quote: Choi is alive
                NATO standards ... is it when the troops are disbanded so that these troops can brutally crush the internal uprisings?

                - This is wretchedness again, you again wishful thinking. The Union of the Weak "CSTO" - in 2011 held a joint cycle of exercises "According to Arab Scenarios".
                1. Tsoi is alive
                  +2
                  5 February 2013 00: 55
                  Quote: Maxno
                  you wishful thinking again

                  Yeah, for example, do you know where the May Day holiday came from?
                  On this day in 1886, American workers took to the streets of cities demanding the introduction of an 8-hour working day. And again, the American government did not doze off. After rallies and strikes that swept through the cities and villages of the United States, the main instigators of unrest were arrested. Five of them were executed. Since then, May Day has been celebrated around the world as a sign of solidarity with the demands of unhappy American workers dispersed by troops and police.

                  And how many riots were in America, you probably also do not know?
                  It's a pity....

                  And here is the control ......!
                  One of the reports, prepared by experts at the University of Brooklyn, provides recommendations by the expert community of the Barack Obama administration "on the feasibility of introducing external governance in Ukraine, which is unambiguously perceived in the West as a springboard for the future reconstruction of Russia and the CIS countries."
            2. Akim
              -1
              5 February 2013 04: 17
              Quote: Maxno
              to NATO's best standards.

              What is the transition?
  14. +1
    4 February 2013 19: 25
    When we already begin to "live together" we need them, we need them and there is nothing to consider who is more important.
    1. Maxno
      -2
      4 February 2013 22: 11
      Quote: andrei
      When we already begin to "live together" we need them, we need them and there is nothing to consider who is more important.

      We do not need you on the corvette.
      1. wax
        +3
        4 February 2013 23: 07
        We do not need you on the corvette.

        Correctly! There is one corvette, and we have a lot of lips rolled out here.
        1. Maxno
          0
          5 February 2013 00: 11
          Corvette will be 10.
          1. Akim
            -1
            5 February 2013 04: 18
            Maxno,
            So far 4th.
  15. lucidlook
    0
    4 February 2013 20: 16
    But I alone didn’t see any hints of VPU here?
    1. Akim
      -1
      4 February 2013 20: 29
      lucidlook,
      They are in front of 35 mm cannons. It is written: Unknow. There is a proposal to replace French with Ukrainian, but a decision has not yet been made.
      1. lucidlook
        +1
        4 February 2013 23: 11
        In front of which guns? What is "Unknown"? I'm talking about Vertical Launchers. Not a word about this in the article, just for a minute.
        1. Akim
          -1
          4 February 2013 23: 27
          There are no vertical launch installations here - they take the place of medium-range air defense systems and have completely different launch angles. There is also a small-radius air defense system, in a retractable installation, above the hangar. But there is little information about her. Most likely these are rumors.
  16. 0
    4 February 2013 21: 55
    Quote: andrei
    When we already begin to "live together" we need them, we need them and there is nothing to consider who is more important.
    Yanukovych did not live up to hope (((((do not vote for him anymore, Slav brothers!
  17. sf43erdfhh
    0
    4 February 2013 21: 58
    Imagine, it turns out that our authorities have complete information about each of us. And now she has appeared on the Internet woot.tw/dzxw. I was very surprised and scared
    my correspondence, addresses, phone numbers, even found my nude photo, I can’t even imagine from where. The good news is that the data can be deleted from the site, of course, I used it and I advise everyone not to hesitate
  18. sf43erdfhh
    -1
    4 February 2013 22: 02
    Imagine, it turns out that our authorities have complete information about each of us. And now she has appeared on the Internet woot.tw/dzxw. I was very surprised and scared
    my correspondence, addresses, phone numbers, even found my nude photo, I can’t even imagine from where. The good news is that the data can be deleted from the site, of course, I used it and I advise everyone not to hesitate
  19. Vova
    0
    4 February 2013 22: 04
    At this pace, we will soon arrange our shipbuilders! At least something is being built!
    1. Maxno
      -1
      4 February 2013 22: 20
      Not "something" - but what is needed according to the schedule. The border service fleet is being updated, this year (soon) the combat core of the Navy will be fully equipped. Combat boats are under construction.
  20. Maxno
    -1
    4 February 2013 22: 13
    By the way, a program to stimulate shipbuilding in Ukraine was launched 4 days ago - now we will build ships for export.
  21. Maxno
    -3
    4 February 2013 22: 29
    Yes, compared with Turkish - that's bad. The Turkish one is "Superjet" - an assembled designer from ready-made systems, and the Ukrainian one is also the development of weapons, R&D, systems, etc.
    - So there is hardly any similar in the world for such little money.
    1. wax
      +1
      4 February 2013 23: 12
      So there is hardly any similar in the world for such little money.

      As you are right, there is tension in the world with similar Ukrainian weapons.
      For a while.
      1. Maxno
        -4
        5 February 2013 00: 10
        I’m always right, it’s not some Russian long-term construction projects with R&D, for eternal scandals and subsidies from the budget.
        1. +1
          5 February 2013 17: 50
          say it to yourself more often, comrade ... change your hand more often
  22. Good Ukraine
    +5
    4 February 2013 22: 34
    There will be nothing good in Ukraine in the coming years.
    All proposals of the Russian Federation Ukraine sabotaged all previous years, with all the presidents.
    I am surprised by the statements of those compatriots who dream of some kind of "stimulation of shipbuilding".
    I would say how you can stimulate a "bare ass", especially when this ass is also cunning, but I'm afraid my comment will be cut out.
    Take a look around. What are you going to build? Where? Everything has been stolen for a long time. We have no army at all.
    Which corvette? We have one single submarine stood for more than 10 years without batteries.
    Russia may have bought something, so our prices are set. that just remains to be surprised.
    You yourself think about the price of 300 million euros for a corvette with foreign weapons.
    Brad!
    1. Maxno
      -2
      4 February 2013 22: 37
      Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
      There will be nothing good in Ukraine in the coming years.

      - Will-be, finally everything is just beginning ...

      Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
      Everything has been stolen for a long time. We have no army at all. Which corvette? We have one single submarine stood for more than 10 years without batteries. Russia may have bought something, so our prices are set. that just remains to be surprised. You yourself will venture into the price of 300 million euros for a corvette with foreign weapons. Bullshit !!!

      - I agree with everything, this is the truth about the Russian Federation.
  23. Good Ukraine
    +2
    4 February 2013 23: 02
    Quote: Maxno
    - Will-be, finally everything is just beginning ...


    What is just starting?

    If what we have come to during the years of "independence" is just beginning.
    THEN I can imagine what kind of "pihwa" we will be when everything is over in ten years.
    1. Maxno
      0
      5 February 2013 00: 08
      - The return of Ukraine to its native European civilization. )
      1. Good Ukraine
        +4
        5 February 2013 00: 21
        Yeah, right after Greece and Romania you will be the first to stand.

        I don’t want to go there.
        So vote.

        And about civilization.
        Open your eyes. The so-called "European" civilization has already bent over in the arms of the "Arab Spring". You dear, apparently, did not understand that Ukraine will be allowed to join the European Union when it is no longer there. laughing
        Read carefully the German comments today.
        1. Maxno
          -1
          5 February 2013 00: 31
          Where and what should I do - I'm not going to ask any leftists. I definitely know who will soon be bent with shale gas and oil in the world.)


          Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
          Read carefully the German comments today.

          Required:
          1. Good Ukraine
            +4
            5 February 2013 00: 45
            Right GDP says.

            "Are you going to heat with firewood? SO EVERYTHING IS EQUAL TO SIBERIA FOR THEM" (guess where Siberia is 3 times).

            And about "Shale Gas"
            If suddenly, they will mine it in Ukraine, then I think its price is for 1 cubic meter. will be = times equal to the cost of that corvette that is described above. laughing
            1. Maxno
              -3
              5 February 2013 00: 49
              Kind Ukraine,
              “This is squalor and bullshit bullish humor.” World forums have already been avoided - as losers.
              The cost will be for now - 100-150 dollars per 1000. In the USA, for example, already - less than 40 dollars.
              1. Good Ukraine
                +3
                5 February 2013 01: 38
                laughing
                Quote: Maxno
                “This is squalor and bullshit bullish humor.” World forums have already been avoided - as losers. The cost will be for now - 100-150 dollars per 1000. In the USA, for example, already - less than 40 dollars.


                Wise guy, read carefully:
                http://energosoft.info/more/more_slanech.html
                If you are too lazy to look for:
                "....... How much more complicated is the technology of shale gas production? How much higher will the cost of this gas be compared to traditional?

                Now the cost price can only be traced to the example of the United States. Depending on the type of oil shale, the prime cost can be from $ 90 to $ 250 per thousand cubic meters. For example, I will say that the average cost of gas production by Gazprom is about $ 19. That is, the cheapest shale gas in terms of production costs is five times more expensive than gas produced by Gazprom. ....... "

                Now ask yourself: "Where is OUR produced gas for $ 25?"

                The question is not how much the production costs, but how much you will pay for it.

                And now you can scream - URA I, I, I, I !!!
                1. +2
                  5 February 2013 12: 20
                  Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
                  Now the cost can be traced only on the example of the United States.

                  Add also that the United States produces shale gas in the desert. And then they already demand compensation for damage to health and the environment. And they want to mine with us practically near small towns, and they are allowed to not adhere to environmental safety standards. To the Americans it was cheaper. So the cost of gas is one thing, but the cost of living for people, who will take it?
                  1. Good Ukraine
                    +1
                    5 February 2013 14: 19
                    Quote: Egoza
                    Add also that the United States produces shale gas in the desert. And then they already demand compensation for damage to health and the environment. And they want to mine with us practically near small towns


                    We have deposits near Kharkov and in the Lviv region.
                    Most importantly, the "patriots" from the Lviv region have already given up production at home, but they are shouting loudest about the refusal of Russian gas.
              2. 0
                5 February 2013 04: 55
                Dear Makhno, read carefully about the prices of shale gas. So you can even write that it’s free, it’s lying under your feet, take it away)))) I made $ 40 laugh. )))
          2. Good Ukraine
            +1
            5 February 2013 01: 46
            laughing
            It correctly says "Putin tore the Germans !!!"

            EVERYTHING IS EQUAL IN SIBERIA !!!
            1. Maxno
              -2
              5 February 2013 01: 49
              The problem will be - if Ukrainians start returning from Siberia. Then you’ll drill it yourself ...
              1. +2
                5 February 2013 11: 56
                From Siberian earnings to Ukrainian !!!!! Dear, it was a joke ?????
      2. Valter
        0
        5 February 2013 01: 20
        Who in this European civilization needs you, or as servants and janitors? And this European civilization itself only causes laughter when you see how the Arabs are bending them down (which I am sincerely only happy about), but the "civilized governments" declare that it is not correct to touch the Arabs, this is not politically correct, you see that the Arabs are raping someone, or beating them telling how to walk and what to do (after all, it turns out that Islam is everywhere in Europe, Sharia law laughing ), pass by, show tolerance, i.e. in other words, be tolerast laughing, but if you intervene and (about heaven, just not that) you touch at least such innocent poor Arabs with your finger, so you are a fascist and then try to get a job (after serving in prison for racism and racial hatred), or when "European civilization "proclaims the observance of the rights of sexual minorities and legalizes same-sex marriage, is this where you strive so much? Go there and live a year or two in order to see life there without a beautiful candy wrapper, but as it is, when civilized neighbors knock on the police for the slightest reason, great people - this is how you have to live: just knock, an excellent system for educating free individuals laughing laughing
      3. Valter
        +3
        5 February 2013 01: 24
        Who in this European civilization needs you, or as servants and janitors? And this European civilization itself only causes laughter when you see how the Arabs are bending them down (which I am sincerely only happy about), but the "civilized governments" declare that it is not correct to touch the Arabs, this is not politically correct, you see that the Arabs are raping someone, or beating them telling how to walk and what to do (after all, it turns out that Islam is everywhere in Europe, Sharia law laughing ), pass by, show tolerance, i.e. in other words, be tolerant, but if you intervene and (oh heavens, just not that) you touch at least such innocent poor Arabs with your finger - that means you are a fascist and then try to get a job (after serving in prison for racism and racial hatred), or when "European civilization" proclaims the observance of the rights of sexual minorities and legalizes same-sex marriage, is this where you strive so much? Go there and live a year or two in order to see life there without a beautiful candy wrapper, but as it is, when civilized neighbors knock on the police for the slightest reason, great people - this is how you have to live: just knock, an excellent system for educating free individuals laughing laughing
        1. Maxno
          -3
          5 February 2013 01: 44
          Quote: Valter
          Who needs you in this European civilization, or as servants and janitors?

          In-in, yours is the problem - you are stuffed with everyone, but nobody needs it - everyone turns away from you, probably because you are so "cool". Your hysteria is logical.
          1. Valter
            +2
            5 February 2013 02: 07
            I’m not stuffing anyone, on the contrary, against everyone else as it says:
            "Maxno Today 00:08 ↑ 0
            - Return of Ukraine to its native European civilization. ) "so you personally strive there, and I have already written my opinion on this issue, but it looks like your problem is Schizophrenia with a capital letter laughing , look do not delay the treatment, otherwise it will become aggravated and then you will not be able to participate in the political life of the country and give personal advice to the president professor laughing how can he manage without you? laughing , don’t drag out my friend, heal, the country needs you laughing
            1. Good Ukraine
              +1
              5 February 2013 02: 14
              smile good drinks
              Quote: Valter
              I'm not stuffing myself with anyone, on the contrary, against everyone as it is written there: "Maxno Today, 00:08 ↑ 0 - Return of Ukraine to its native European civilization.)" So you personally strive there, and I have already written my opinion on this issue, but it looks like your problem is Schizophrenia with a capital letter, look, do not delay treatment, otherwise it will worsen and then you will not be able to participate in the political life of the country and give advice to the president personally, the professor, how can he do without you? , do not drag out my friend, get treatment, the country needs you


              VERY CORRECT !!!
          2. Valter
            0
            5 February 2013 02: 18
            Is it wrong with your head? This is what you wrote:
            "Maxno Today 00:08 ↑ 0
            - Return of Ukraine to its native European civilization. ) "
            so you get in there (because they don’t want to see you there), I already wrote my opinion on this issue above, there is nothing more to add.
          3. Valter
            0
            5 February 2013 02: 20
            Is it wrong with your head? This is what you wrote:
            "Maxno Today 00:08 ↑ 0
            - Return of Ukraine to its native European civilization. ) "
            so you get in full (because they don’t want to see you there), I already wrote my opinion on this issue above, there is nothing more to add.
          4. Valter
            0
            5 February 2013 02: 21
            I’m not stuffing anyone, on the contrary, against everyone else as it says:
            "Maxno Today, 00:08 ↑ 0 - Return of Ukraine to its native European civilization.)" So you personally strive there, and I have already written my opinion on this issue, but it looks like your problem is Schizophrenia with a capital letter laughing , look do not delay the treatment, otherwise it will become aggravated and then you will not be able to participate in the political life of the country and give personal advice to the professor personally, how can he manage without you? laughing , don’t drag out my friend, heal, the country needs you laughing
          5. Valter
            +2
            5 February 2013 02: 24
            I’m not stuffing anyone, on the contrary, against everyone else as it says:
            "Maxno Today, 00:08 ↑ 0 - Return of Ukraine to its native European civilization.)" So you personally strive there, and I have already written my opinion on this issue, but it looks like your problem is Schizophrenia with a capital letter, see do not delay treatment , otherwise it will escalate and then you will not be able to participate in the political life of the country laughing and give personal advice to the president professor laughing how can he manage without you? , don’t drag out my friend, heal, the country needs you laughing
  24. andrey_sk
    +1
    5 February 2013 00: 28
    Everything is fine, but it's hard to believe in its own air defense system "Dnepr". Nothing has been heard about its development at all, but the sea version of any air defense system differs from the ground-based one and requires additional time for development. So most likely there will be South African Umkhonto, as previously announced.
    1. Maxno
      -2
      5 February 2013 00: 44
      andrey_sk,
      Well then. In Ukraine, programs for the modernization of all air defense systems that are transferred to Whf - IFRC.
      - The missile is already ready (it’s on the Belarussian air defense system Stiletto - T-382), and it needs to be set up.
      In Ukraine there are ve design bureaus and factories to teach this missile to aim at a target and on a ship. In the course and SAM, the Bee will go.
      1. Valter
        +2
        5 February 2013 01: 30
        "In Ukraine, there are design bureaus and factories to teach this missile to aim at the target and on the ship. On the way, the Pchela SAM system will also go." Aren't you funny yourself? Where are these factories in fantasies and dreams? There were such factories in the USSR, but after the skillful leadership of all our glorious governments, only plaques on buildings rented by someone remained of them. laughing
        1. Maxno
          -2
          5 February 2013 01: 39
          Quote: Valter
          You yourself are not funny? Where are these plants in fantasies and dreams? Such plants were in the USSR, but after the skillful leadership of all our glorious governments, they only left signs on someone rented buildings

          - Yes, this is so in the Russian Federation.
          1. Valter
            0
            5 February 2013 01: 50
            We have the same thing, everywhere the same system of state administration is headed by "very loving oligarchs" laughing and "developing her", not sparing their own strength and health laughing
        2. +1
          5 February 2013 10: 09
          KB "LUCH" is engaged in missiles as means of air attack (aircraft), but under the Soviet Union they made missiles for the S-300. Fuel and lubricants for missiles are made at Arsenal and Radar. Of course they have all "dried up" since the Soviet Union. But the same KB Luch works all weekend, there are a lot of orders.
          1. Maxno
            0
            5 February 2013 18: 54
            Aeneas,
            - Insolent liar. Without those plants, there will not be and will not be RVV-BD, Su-30, PAK FA, etc. But here we have it - that's it! )
      2. Akim
        -1
        5 February 2013 04: 24
        Quote: Maxno
        The missile is already ready (onnaya and on the Belarusian air defense system Stilet - T-382), and it must be put

        "Stiletto" is a counterpart to "Torah". The Belarusians will not release it, for the modernization of the "Os", which are already available will suit the Ukrainian military.
      3. 0
        5 February 2013 10: 06
        Stiletto is positioned as a replacement for Wasp, and so far they are using missiles from Wasp. Luch KB designs an anti-aircraft missile based on the R-27, but has not yet "given birth".
        1. Akim
          -1
          5 February 2013 10: 42
          Quote: Aeneas
          positioned as a replacement Wasp

          And Thor? It was just designed in the USSR at the level of the air defense divisional link, to replace the "Os". So there is no place for Stiletto in the Belarusian army. These are two complexes with similar characteristics.
  25. phantom359
    +3
    5 February 2013 00: 39
    Interesting. for what shishy going to collect all this? What the parliament has allocated to the army simply does not go into any gates. And why Exocet? There are much better samples. Conclusion - you need to find a common language with Russia and build the armed forces according to one scheme. And cheaper and more efficient.
    1. 0
      5 February 2013 00: 48
      Quote: phantom359
      And cheaper and more efficient.

      Cheaper? - is not a fact
      More effective? - definitely not

      Quote: phantom359
      build armed forces in one pattern

      What for ? The aircraft schemes cannot be similar - the tasks are different.

      Quote: phantom359
      And why Exocet? There are much better samples.

      What kind ? The Swedes refused to supply RBS.
      1. phantom359
        +3
        5 February 2013 01: 40
        artem772, Russian (read Soviet) missiles have always been an order of magnitude better than NATO anti-ship missiles. An example is how many missiles were fired by the Argentines in 82. Now air-to-air. In the 70s the number of rejected "Sparrow" - 60%, P23, P24 - 40% This is so offhand, what I remember. And the last thing that the Ukrainian army is (damn, it's already ridiculous), I know not by hearsay. More or less normal training in Ostra, airborne brigade in Kirovograd. This is where the officers who are fans of their work learn something else. But parquet flooring in bulk in Kiev. Precisely sho - there is such a profession - to sell the Motherland.
    2. Maxno
      -9
      5 February 2013 00: 51
      phantom359,
      - The best efficiency is to have as little business with the Russian Federation as possible. Russian weapons are defective, worse, and cost the same as world-class ones.
      1. Good Ukraine
        +3
        5 February 2013 01: 21
        laughing
        Dear !!!
        Quote: Maxno
        - The best efficiency is to have as little business with the Russian Federation as possible. Russian weapons are defective, worse, and cost the same as world-class ones.

        And now read this link, (http://alternathistory.org.ua/korvety-proekta-58250-gaiduk-ukraina) especially regarding who is the owner of the shipyard. I can pronounce:
        "The corvettes will be built by the Chernomorsky Shipbuilding Plant (Nikolaev), owned by the Smart group of companies (Russian capital)."
        And its cost will be for Russia:
        "The cost of the" lead "ship of the series is still estimated at 250 million euros. How much the first serial corvette will cost will be determined a month after the construction of the first. But they hope to reach the level of 200-210 million." "And Russia will put its weapons there.
        And now you can laugh at everything that you wrote here.

        I can add one more: It will cost more than 300 million for the Ukrainian Navy. The fact is that our country is rich and there are a lot of screaming patriots.
        1. Maxno
          -1
          5 February 2013 01: 40
          Do not make laugh, capital ...
    3. Akim
      0
      5 February 2013 04: 27
      This is yes. Cheaper would come out unambiguously. Half of the Kh-35 missile is being assembled at Yuzhmash.
  26. Maxno
    -1
    5 February 2013 01: 48
    The Russian Federation is a de-industrialized territory.

    "Russia is interested in integration into its United Shipbuilding Corporation of the Feodosia plant" More ", as well as the Nikolaev-based" Zarya-Mashproekt ".
    This was at a meeting with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in Moscow, said President of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Roman Trotsenko.
    “On cooperation with Ukraine. We did an analysis. Ukraine is our most important importer, supplying components and ship systems for Russia. More than 6000 items of various equipment we receive from Ukraine and part of this equipment is important for us or unique. We can say that without Ukraine, our shipbuilding industry would have experienced serious difficulties in the production of the equipment that it produces.
    As part of our work with our Ukrainian colleagues, we are considering the integration of two large Ukrainian enterprises - Zarya-Mashproekt, this is a very strong ship turbine production plant that can also produce gas turbines, and the Feodosia More plant - a large production plant light alloy ships, aluminum. Both are state-owned enterprises of Ukraine, they are now having difficulties with loading, and when integrating them into the USC, we could solve the problem, ”Trotsenko said.
    “We agreed with partners that these issues will be worked out. Take them under the most serious control. But under the control, it is necessary to take a direct part in the elaboration of these issues on the unification of enterprises where there is interest on both sides, ”Putin gave an order.
    As the New Region reported, the Feodosia More Sea plant was last heard in Russia in 2009 after it received an order from China for the production of small Zubr hovercraft. (The Zubras, which have no analogues in the world, are produced only in Feodosia and even in Russia at the Almaz Central Design Bureau.)
    Then in the Russian press there were reports that the Ukrainian company did not have the right to sign a contract for the production of this type of ship without prior approval and appropriate participation of Moscow. And the press service of the Almaz Central Design Bureau stated that the Ukrainian side violated the Russian-Ukrainian intergovernmental agreement of 2006 on the mutual protection of intellectual property rights.
    1. Valter
      +7
      5 February 2013 02: 58
      And Ukraine is not a de-industrialized territory? "... they are now experiencing difficulties with loading ..." that's putting it mildly, it's enough to go and look at what remains of these factories once in the past, "when integrating them into the USC, we could resolve the issue" this means buying new CNC machines and pay wages to workers (in other words, you do not understand equal cooperation), that the "European civilization" is in no hurry to do this laughing And the last thing: if suddenly a war with Romania or Turkey happens, all the western military systems installed on this boat with the wave of an unknown magic wand (called programmed electronics, which received a signal to complete the complete inactivity of the system) suddenly stop working (as someone already wrote above), this ship will turn into an excellent floating target, and what will be further clear to everyone. But if suddenly this happens to you and other supporters of Western electronics, do not lose heart, always the main thing is not to lose heart! laughing take slingshots and board rubber boats and go to meet fate, shoot Romanians there, Turks sparing no patriotic powers laughing you see cheer them and they will die of laughter laughing and their attack will drown, at least for a day, laughing then the president will give you a medal (paper laughing so that on a rainy day there was something to go to the toilet) and you will consider your patriotic duty to the country fulfilled laughing
      1. The fence
        0
        6 February 2013 03: 03
        Walter!

        "... So what will be on the corvette? Let's start, perhaps, with Ukrainian samples:
        Multi-purpose shipborne radar target designation complex MORENA;
        Optical-radar station “Protazan-K” - Medium-caliber artillery shooting control system;
        Multifunctional radar "Phoenix-U";
        Optic-electronic station of circular review "Selena" - to control and monitor the location of the ship;
        AP "VZOI-VZOR" - a system of mutual exchange of information and mutual orientation of the tactical group;
        "Positive-1U" radar general detection of air and surface targets;
        ORLS "Kopye-K" - to control small caliber artillery mounts;
        Optic-electronic Saiga take-off and landing station;
        Radio intelligence complex "Button";
        Hydroacoustic complex "Zarnitsa";
        The control system for remote-controlled underwater vehicle - "KNPA-58250" ...


        Where did you see western systems?
        1. Valter
          0
          8 February 2013 00: 28
          The imported component came into service. Ukraine itself did not produce ship weapons. It is economically unprofitable to develop similar complexes for a small batch. The process of creating the project fell on a difficult period in relations between Russia and Ukraine, and it was not possible to agree on the supply of Russian analogues, so I had to order from the Germans, Italians and French. As a result, we have such a “soup set”:
          PCR Exocet - 8 pcs.
          Torpedo tubes В515 -2 by 3 pcs.
          Artwork 76 / 62 Super Rapid - 1 pcs.
          Art. Millennium, 35- mm Naval Gun System - 2 pcs.
          Active Mass Protection System - 2 pcs.
        2. Valter
          +1
          8 February 2013 00: 29
          "The import component fell into service. Ukraine itself did not produce ship weapons. It is economically unprofitable to develop its own similar complexes for a small batch. The process of creating the project fell on a difficult period in relations between Russia and Ukraine, and it was not possible to agree on the supply of Russian analogues, so I had to order from Germans, Italians and French. As a result, we have such a "soup set":
          PCR Exocet - 8 pcs.
          Torpedo tubes В515 -2 by 3 pcs.
          Artwork 76 / 62 Super Rapid - 1 pcs.
          Art. Millennium, 35- mm Naval Gun System - 2 pcs.
          Active protection system "MASS" - 2 pieces "
  27. +2
    5 February 2013 05: 03
    Guys do not argue. Ukraine can not get away from Russia and vice versa. It's like swimming against the tide. Sooner or later anyway zaeb .... I, but the later you realize the less chance of returning to shore. Is it really necessary to destroy everything to the ground in order to put up later and build together !!! We have already gone through this. Ukrainians - yes, you understand what happened, or just in peacetime only Russia can help and this is verified historically. Well, it’s ridiculous to think that the Poles will fall for Ukraine. Himself not funny from such thoughts ?. We do not live as a single gas.
  28. sergo1979
    +2
    5 February 2013 07: 16
    people look at you for a year already wrote for the first time I can not restrain myself from irony (more precisely from tears) if you build from scratch, then Ukraine is Zimbabwe with zero in your head, our history is the USSR and everything connected with it, "what kind of EU tries to forget who thinks that the EU is super "kids" no other words
  29. sergo1979
    0
    5 February 2013 07: 38
    I will omit those who have not known a bit into history "" "" "" "" "" "" Kievan Rus is part of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus who do not know "we read history" anywhere from this
    1. +1
      5 February 2013 23: 21
      This is because some comrades from the State Department see the word Kievskaya in the name "Kievan Rus", but stubbornly refuse to see the word Rus.
  30. +4
    5 February 2013 10: 19
    Quote: demon ada
    technical documentation in Ukrainian

    filter filter
    press filter - filter-press
    what will be the vacuum filter, your options?
    1. Akim
      +2
      5 February 2013 10: 47
      Quote: nae76
      filter

      And "filter" - is it a Russian word? It is of Latin origin. So don't do like Zadornov freak words.
    2. 0
      5 February 2013 14: 54
      Filter, vacuum - these words, like so many technical terms, have no more relation to the Russian language than to Ukrainian.
      1. phantom359
        +2
        5 February 2013 15: 43
        artem772, This is called loan words and they are in all languages.
  31. +2
    5 February 2013 19: 15
    Ukrainian brothers. I personally have been semi-bulbash semi-Russian and have been calling you ami all my life (I want to note that a crest, as I understand it, is a smart, homely, cunning, handsome, and always respected person). it’s the brothers, because we have always been together, nearby, like the three brothers — completely different, but still the brothers — who know that they have one mother, RUSSIA. it is RUSSIA, and not America (the Piiindos don’t have any roots at all, it’s a bunch of trash from all over the world), not Germany (I respect the Germans very much but they are completely alien), not France and England (here they are most likely brothers to each other, but they don’t want to admit it), not Italy (the brothers are probably the Armenians most likely in terms of worldview. I don’t think I should mention the rest. Understand the RUSSIANS do not have any antipathy for you - SO TALK AS WANTED, but do not bother to speak to those who want to speak Russian ... And it’s stupid to build ships in my opinion, even for neighbors with such a level of economy you can’t keep up with, let alone Russia. Invest in the economy and you will be happy, and when you find a lot of oil, gas from forests and diamonds, then build all your ten Nuclear Aircraft Carriers LOVE AND DO NOT BE ANIMAL!
  32. +1
    5 February 2013 20: 15
    It is sad to read a skirmish of the independent. The state is determined by the borders. By what you write the border is a paragraph. Long live the new! You are angry and do not love each other. And you can protect your borders with corvettes from Abkhazians, and from Georgians, and from flying pirates and that’s all! Stop! Sorry forgot Moldovans and Transnistrians. (A political map of the World)

    But with Kazakhstan, the opposite is true. And there are ships, and on whom to push this fleet. (Again the same card)
    1. Akim
      -1
      5 February 2013 20: 25
      Quote: Dmitry 2246
      And you can protect your borders with corvettes
      .
      And they are created to protect their economic zone. A set of weapons is equivalent to a frigate. For the intimidation of the gypsies - just right .. But in general, Brazil was interested in these corvettes two years ago, where it was positioned as a light frigate - in terms of armament, displacement and autonomy.
      1. +2
        5 February 2013 20: 39
        Quote: Akim
        created to protect their economic zone

        C'mon, what’s not understandable here. That we won’t build everything will be wrong, this can already be given for granted. Some people believe that Ukraine should have finished building Ulyanovsk, so then no one would pokusitsa))))
        But we introduce RK Ukraine into operation. If I honestly would read comments)) or battleship.
        1. 0
          5 February 2013 23: 36
          Quote: Kars
          But we introduce RK Ukraine into operation. If I honestly would read comments)) or battleship.

          These are not commercial projects. And RC "Ukraine" is sincerely sorry, maybe they will add more.
  33. +1
    5 February 2013 21: 56
    Akim, I hope you understand me. The fleet is the protection of not only politics but also the economy. Where is the politics? What is she doing? Where is the economy? Sell ​​something to anyone? The more good weapons you make, the worse the civil war. You have no external enemies. Shooting civilian planes is not great valor. And after the civil war you also have to force the world, believe me, I do not want to. And the heels of independent Ukraine are a nightmare.
    1. Akim
      -1
      5 February 2013 22: 14
      We have economic disputes with Romania. This was openly said by the new MO. (as if they didn’t know before). And about politics - already got a fairy tale on a white bull. I don’t need to personally brainwash the brain. I am fluent in several languages ​​and can watch not only Russian TV channels and read different sources .. I already made my conclusions And do not touch politics. Anyway, we will not change anything. In the worst case, take a nap. Let's say stop here. We will not cross the political barrier or it is better not to argue about this with me.
  34. The fence
    0
    5 February 2013 22: 34
    Egoza : Not! NATO will be ordered to sew uniforms according to NATO standards, to purchase weapons as in NATO, .... can you imagine how much you can steal along the way?

    Already tested their form in the exercises, why the form of NATO?
    http://wartime.org.ua/4348-oglyad-eksperimentalnoyi-polovoyi-formi-ta-ekprovki-d
    lya-vyskovosluzhbovcv-zs-ukrayini.html
  35. +1
    5 February 2013 22: 57
    I'm really interested in your opinion. I am for the world. Relatives in Belgorod. I have already lost one leg in the war. I apologize for digging for the "format".
    1. Akim
      0
      5 February 2013 23: 11
      Dmitry 2246,
      I think so. Since they build it so someone needs it. With this money, you can buy a crew of brand new BM Strongholds or 300 pieces of Betaers from a holoin ship. Here they are now superfluous, and corvettes and aviation are more relevant. But Ukraine itself does not produce fighters, and the balance of forces with its western neighbors is so far in aviation on our side. If only there was a raid ...
  36. -1
    5 February 2013 23: 21
    In any case, the fact of building a warship is useful.

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