Is energy independence of Ukraine possible?

340


The Ukrainian government again and again sends its "messengers" to Moscow, hoping that they will be able to solve a very simple, but for some reason still unsolved task - to persuade the Russian government to reduce at least a little the price of natural gas, which is an important component Ukrainian economy.

Repeatedly among these "messengers" was Yuri Boyko. This time he has already arrived in the new status - the vice-premier, and not the minister of energy. However, it seems that one should not particularly hope for a speedy resolution of the gas dispute, since the career growth of this policy will in no way be able to influence the solution of an elementary problem that has been discussed many times and which solutions are well known to both parties.

The Ukrainian government is persistently not losing hope that Russia will eventually give way, even though the Russian leadership is increasingly more radical in this matter. Ukraine does not leave attempts to achieve a reduction in gas prices to the level of those for which supplies are made to Belarus. However, Moscow, of course, will never agree to this. And it is clear: why should she take such steps? Russia and Belarus are members of the Customs Union, they are building the Unified Economic Union, while Ukraine cannot decide which vector of foreign policy development to choose: whether to join the European Union, in which, frankly, no one expects it, or to join the Customs Union, but on their own terms. But nobody managed to sit on two chairs, and the Ukrainian political elite can hardly do that.

At the same time, Kiev does not stop thinking about how to still reduce the price of blue fuel, but at the same time do without membership in the Customs Union. One of the possible solutions to this problem is the participation of Moscow in the management of the Ukrainian gas transportation system. But this option is also hardly possible, because Russia, convinced of the unreliability of Ukraine as a gas transporter, launched the Nord Stream bypassing the country and has already begun construction of the Yuzhniy.

Back in December last year, during a press conference, the Russian head of state hinted that the Ukrainian gas transportation system is not very interested in Moscow. Despite this, the Ukrainian government is still confident that these are just words, and Russia will never be able to refuse it. However, officially the Russian leadership did not declare that the Ukrainian GTS was no longer relevant. Therefore, the words of the Russian president can be understood in the vein, for objective reasons, interest in it has decreased, and it can no longer be viewed as a weighty argument in the negotiations.

According to Valeriy Borovik, the head of the alliance “New Energy of Ukraine”, the issue of transferring to the Russian “Gazprom” some shares of the Ukrainian transit system has been practically resolved. Each party is expected to receive a percentage of the shares at 50. Thus, after evaluating half of the gas transmission system, a discount on natural gas will be formed. However, according to experts, the issue of the transit system is unlikely to be resolved soon.

According to political analyst, director of the National Energy Security Fund Konstantin Simonov, to say that the negotiations on the prospects for Ukrainian-Russian cooperation on the gas issue cannot be considered exhausted. The fact is that the construction of the "South Stream" has just begun. The construction process will last several years, and throughout this time Ukraine will serve as a transit country, letting, according to the needs of the European Union, about 80-100 billion cubic meters of gas. Moreover, none of the parties has yet reached its goals: Kiev wants to buy cheap gas, Moscow is ready to provide it, but in exchange for certain actions. And just so no one will cut prices, especially since there is a contract on the principles of pricing, which will be valid until 2019 year.

K. Simonov also expressed his opinion on the issue of Russia's need for the Ukrainian GTS. So, according to him, the Ukrainian transit system would not be necessary for Russia if the South Stream project were implemented in full, which is 4 lines with a total capacity of 63 billion cubic meters of gas.

As for the Ukrainian-Russian gas negotiations, Simonov is sure that the Ukrainian government has done everything possible for Russia to start building a new stream, leaving Kiev with few opportunities for further cooperation. Undoubtedly, the negotiations will continue in the future, but their conditions are becoming more and more elusive, since the construction of the South Stream has already begun.

The entire Ukrainian government spent the whole of last year blackmailing Moscow in every possible and accessible way, trying to achieve its own way: production on the shelf and construction of a gas processing terminal near Odessa. What ended all these stories - known to all: the Ukrainian authorities have signed a billion-dollar contract with a representative of a Spanish company for the supply of liquefied gas, which turned into a huge scandal. As a result, Ukraine became a laughing stock in the international arena, disgracing in full.

Thus, at the moment the situation is as follows: the construction of the South Stream has begun, and the Ukrainian government has less and less room for maneuvers. Even if we assume that the two sides will come to some kind of agreement, the new Russian flows will still have to be loaded. That is, Ukraine in this matter has already lost a lot, and it can be said with confidence that in the past there were those times when the Ukrainian territory pumped up to 120 billions of cubic meters of gas.

However, the “Northern” and “Southern” flows are far from everything that Russia threatens Ukraine with. Thus, at the end of November 2012, information appeared that Gazprom plans to increase the transit of natural gas through Belarus to Europe by 2013 percent in 30. To this end, the Russian monopolist intends to invest about 2 billion dollars in the modernization of the “Belarusian” pipe and the construction of additional gas storage facilities. It is assumed that work will begin later this year.

Thus, if we take into account all these factors, it is already completely clear that in the future Ukraine will completely lose its status as a gas transit country. The Ukrainian gas transportation system can thus become, roughly speaking, a pile of scrap metal. At the same time, the state will lose the annual rent for pumping blue fuel, which amounts to three billion dollars. And for a country whose economy is not in the best condition, this is very good money ...

In such a situation, they are puzzled by the statement made by the Ukrainian head of state, V. Yanukovych, which he made on January 19 during a press conference in Davos. The president said that the Ukrainian government in the near future hopes to reach an agreement with the Russian side on the gas issue. At the same time, he added that the states are doomed to compromise. The negotiations have been going on for several years now, and the country's leadership understands that it is necessary to find a solution that will satisfy both parties.

In addition, Yanukovych said that Ukraine has reduced the consumption of Russian gas. Moreover, he noted that this policy will continue in the future, even though the gas problem in Ukraine has acquired signs of a threat to national security. According to Yanukovych, Ukraine has adopted a tough program to diversify energy supplies, replacing natural gas with other energy sources, which is being successfully implemented. At the same time, the head of state noted that there is nowhere else to raise prices for the purchase of gas, because this will immediately affect the material condition of socially unprotected segments of the population.

At the same time, according to the statement of S. Kupriyanov, who is the official representative of Gazprom, lately the selection of Russian gas by Ukraine, on the contrary, increased, reaching 115 million cubic meters per day.

The statements of the Ukrainian Prime Minister N. Azarov that the gas dispute between the states may well be resolved through the courts seem to be not entirely logical (such an option is possible if the parties cannot agree). But the Ukrainian government is well aware that the court is unprofitable in the first place for Ukraine, because the proceedings will last at least a year. Throughout this time, the country will have to buy gas at a high price. In addition, there is no certainty that the dispute will be resolved in favor of Ukraine. Then Kiev will not have any arguments in further negotiations.

K.Gryshchenko, the Ukrainian Foreign Minister, said that Ukraine opposed the construction of South Stream by Russia. Maybe it was necessary to think earlier, and instead of considering its GTS as the main trump card in negotiations with Russia, the Ukrainian leadership should not annoy the Russian leadership once again with harsh and not always deliberate statements?

Materials used:
http://www.km.ru/world/2013/01/24/stroitelstvo-i-ekspluatatsiya-gazoprovodov-i-nefteprovodov/702308-shantazhiruya-ros
http://newvesti.info/ukrainskij-shelf-chyornogo-morya-sdali-amerikancam/
http://gazeta.ua/ru/articles/business/_razorvat-kontrakt-s-gazpromom-ne-pomozhet-dazhe-bankrotstvo-naftogaza-ekspert/479279
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  1. +6
    29 January 2013 09: 06
    That is why there are no problems with the Germans?
    The current situation is beneficial to amers, as an illustration of horror stories about Russia. That's what the real comprador government means. Thought Yanukovych wiser. (or he really can’t take control of the situation)
    But there are our two-thirds.
    1. +19
      29 January 2013 09: 24
      Quote: dmitreach
      The current situation is beneficial to amers,

      Only in the short term. Ukraine will cease to be a transit country and lose billions, sign an agreement with the EU and again lose billions and this is only from the barriers of Russia. Plus, the loss of a bunch of jobs and the closure of enterprises. Given the economy of Ukraine today, there will only be a gap. Toda and appreciate the people who are so eager for Europe all the value of the civilized world.
      1. +9
        29 January 2013 09: 32
        And who needs Ukraine, except for its residents? Unless Belarusians and Russians.
        It is impoverished, and there even grass does not grow. There is no need for a lot of people to plow land and chernozem. It only hurts us, relatives after all.
        1. Quiet
          0
          30 January 2013 18: 48
          to persuade the Russian government to lower natural gas prices at least slightly

          You must start to understand !!! Russia is rearming !! Ukrainian rulers profiled all the weapons from the USSR ..... In reality, Ukraine is afraid only because of friendship with Russia .... Which is only one capable of protecting the brotherly people .... We need money for rearmament .... And the Ukrainian rulers only care about what they will put on their transit accounts. On the people of Ukraine named "PCHI" ...
      2. +8
        29 January 2013 09: 57
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Only in the short term. Ukraine will cease to be a transit country and lose billions, sign an agreement with the EU and again lose billions and this is only from the barriers of Russia. Plus, the loss of a bunch of jobs and the closure of enterprises. Given the economy of Ukraine today, there will only be a gap. Toda and appreciate the people who are so eager for Europe all the value of the civilized world.



        I welcome Alexander! hi

        Only a close alliance with Russia will save Ukraine from turmoil.
        1. +14
          29 January 2013 10: 31
          Quote: Apollon
          Only a close alliance with Russia will save Ukraine from turmoil.

          But joining the CU will cause a sharp crack in Ukraine, especially in Lviv laughing But even greater political upheavals will occur in the EU and the USA, as some people will actually have a heart attack.
          1. +5
            29 January 2013 10: 43
            I would like to see this festival of justice! am
      3. +13
        29 January 2013 11: 44
        Do you think it (the population) does not understand this? Most understand. But nobody wants to go to the government with a pitchfork. Why did you choose Yanukovych? He spoke out for intimacy with Russia. The result ... Everyone knows.
        Everyone knows Lviv by their throaty sounds, which are best heard of. The population there is also quite adequate. All these polls and ratings of Russia in Ukraine are man-made.
      4. +4
        29 January 2013 15: 17
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Only in the short term. Ukraine will cease to be a transit country and lose billions, sign an agreement with the EU and again lose billions, and this is only from the barbarous measures of Russia

        I think so in the high offices they have long decided to divide the country and are waiting for a logical end. Hence, such intransigence on the part of Russia and the dead silence on the part of the EU and the USA. Rather, not silence, but only incoherent promises !!
        1. Quiet
          0
          30 January 2013 18: 51
          The calm before the storm ????
      5. wax
        +1
        29 January 2013 17: 06
        Plus a visa regime. As a result, there are some broken pots, but the second time, I think, Russia will not step on the old rake and from scratch again create in Ukraine a competitive modern full-cycle production. If the autocratic comprador bourgeoisie advances in betrayal of their country, then the maximum that the West can count on is the tearing away of some Western territories from Ukraine.
      6. akbarr
        +5
        29 January 2013 18: 13
        Yeah, Ukraine is completely impoverished, they will write off everything to Russia, they say that they are to blame for the devastation. They will be like balts, exactly the same
    2. Mik rybalko
      +14
      29 January 2013 09: 29
      Yes, nobody cares about Ukraine, you just have to work and pay for gas, not agree. Like a gangster arrow.
      1. +5
        29 January 2013 11: 57
        Well, yes, and the conditions for Ukraine's accession to the WTO are not "an agreement on a bandit's arrow", this is just honey for the Ukrainian economy. That is why the darkness of enterprises was closed there and continue to close, probably from "great laziness", only these enterprises worked before, and worked well lol
        1. +11
          29 January 2013 12: 30
          At the same time, he added that states are doomed to compromise.

          Let's just say that Ukraine is doomed to a compromise. I think for another 10 years and people will finally wake up. We stopped selling children in the USA, and Yanyk picked up the baton from them. Shale gas? Europe has already proven that its production adversely affects the ecosystem, so they buy gas from us, just look at the production technologies and it’s clear that nothing good will come of it, is Chernobyl not enough for Ukraine? It makes no sense to lower the price of gas for us, because, excuse me, at present Ukraine is no one to us, moreover, a potential adversary who is climbing into the EU, but Belarus is with us, it can sell gas cheaply, for some reason Belarusians are dirty with us Do not water. So we’ll wait for 10 years, and then either the people will pick up the government on the pitchfork or they will bend at all, if we like to shout how bad everything is around, then it’s enough to send such people to Ukraine for a month, I think they’ll stop shouting right away hi
          1. Skavron
            +10
            29 January 2013 12: 58
            Quote: Joker
            it’s enough to send such to Ukraine for a month

            I traveled both in Russia and Ukraine ... you know, the difference was somehow not very strong and I noticed.
            Gasoline is expensive, the products are also not cheap, with the work somehow the same as ours. Where is empty and where is thick.
            1. +4
              29 January 2013 21: 39
              Quote: Skavron
              I traveled both in Russia and Ukraine ... you know, the difference was somehow not very strong and I noticed.
              Gasoline is expensive, the products are also not cheap, with the work somehow the same as ours. Where is empty and where is thick.


              I would not be very surprised if the gas tariffs for the population of "Russia who are fattening on the gas pipe" are much higher than in Ukraine. We have 38 rubles. per person in the absence of a meter. In Dnepropetrovsk, if consumption is up to 2500 cubic meters - 72 kopecks, if consumed from 2500 to 6000 cubic meters -1 hryvnia 09 kopecks in the presence of a meter and 1 hryvnia 20 kopecks in the absence of a meter. That is at today's rate, a maximum of 4,43 rubles per person.
              Calculator here

              Tariffs for gas in the Moscow region. From July 1, 2012
              here

              Prices in rubles / 1000 m³ (including VAT) - 3795 rubles. in outskirts of Moscow
              In Dnepropetrovsk, from 72 to 120 hryvnias per 1000 cubic meters (true for 2011, but in 2011 we also had about 3200 rubles per 1000 km)
              here


              What is the dispute about? About whether "Zenith" will be able to buy a couple more 100 million Hulkov tez of these 7 billion. debt? Or Akhmetov and Surkis will not give out of harm ... Games of oligarchs and monopolies, and here we are arranging srach
              1. mamba
                +1
                30 January 2013 21: 01
                Quote: Ascetic
                I would not be very surprised if the gas tariffs for the population of "Russia who are fattening on the gas pipe" are much higher than in Ukraine. We have 38 rubles. per person in the absence of a meter.

                The farther from Moscow, the more expensive life is, because tariffs are higher and salaries are lower. In Saratov, where I live, we pay for gas already at 76 rubles / person. And this is despite the fact that gas is produced near the city.
                A similar situation with electricity in the presence of a nearby nuclear power plant and hydroelectric station.
                Therefore, Ukrainians, accustomed to Russian freebies, will have to get used to Russian realities. But how else, brothers.
            2. Quiet
              +1
              30 January 2013 19: 15
              products are not cheap either

              And .. like everywhere a surrogate with dyes and flavors banned for sale in Europe ....
          2. gladiatorakz
            +4
            29 January 2013 13: 04
            Quote: Joker
            Belarusians for some reason do not pour mud on us

            Us too.
          3. Quiet
            +1
            30 January 2013 19: 11
            We stopped selling children in the USA

            And who thought how many of them were sold for organ transplantation ????
      2. Quiet
        0
        30 January 2013 19: 08
        Anyone who agrees is only concerned about his pocket. I don’t give a damn about the people ...
    3. anton107798
      +5
      29 January 2013 19: 54
      Of course, I can imagine how many minuses I’ll earn right now, but still ... The person who wrote the article omitted a lot of points. Important points! The shelf is being developed by two new drilling rigs, deep drilling, and a contract has been signed for the production of four more of the same. In the same Davos, they officially signed a contract with SHELL for the production of shale gas, which, according to the most conservative estimates, is enough for 300 years. They did not sign a contract with the Spaniards, but no one refused to build the terminal, the territory has been allocated, preparatory work is underway. Work is underway on coal, its processing into dust and the conversion of thermal power plants to coal dust, Europe has been successfully heating up for so long. Now about the trial ... dial on the Internet and look ... there are a lot of precedents of this scale ... so, IF THE CONTRACT WILL LEAD TO THE CRISIS IN THE COUNTRY, TO DAMAGES, WILL THE AFFECT PARTY WIN, example? easy! Italy seems to be paying 30 percent less than the contract. Why? Won the court against Russia. As the most important thing, we pay, and we pay a year already at $ 460 per thousand ... but we are alive, and without knowing our opinion, we do not need to draw conclusions
      1. +8
        29 January 2013 23: 12
        I minus, but only because there was plus_1, considering that it is impossible to praise for many insignificant facts.
        --- From the shelf, Ukraine received in 2012 1 billion cubic meters. upon receipt from Russia of 33 billion cubic meters same year. By 2015, it expects 3 billion cubic meters. year. At the same time, huge loans are taken to purchase platforms.
        --- The state’s share in the future distribution of gas produced by Shell and Nadra Yuzovskaya LLC on Yuzovskaya Square (Kharkiv and Donetsk Regions) will be 31-60%. But how much will actually be is unknown.
        --- Transfer of thermal power plants to coal-water mixture (according to estimates of the head of the Ministry of Industry and Energy Yuri Boyko) will allow Ukraine to save up to six billion cubic meters of gas per year. But how much coal will cost and its delivery is silent! And still you need to buy 27 billion cubic meters. (in the stagnation mode of the chemical industry).
        ---- About the court. Do not force to search in vain, provide links specifically.
        ---- We in Ukraine live on debt at the expense of IMF loans and now China is added to it.
      2. +6
        29 January 2013 23: 49
        Quote: anton107798
        officially signed a contract with SHELL for the production of shale gas,

        Gas may be enough for 300 years, but complaints have already been sent to the United States from the population living near the development areas - the grass is drying and the soil is covered with some kind of stains, the animals are sick with unknown diseases and they can’t even be slaughtered, not to mention that the milk was gone completely. In people, the incidence increased, because the radiation background in those places also increased. There may be enough gas, but agriculture, land, will be completely ruined, and people will die out.
        1. +1
          29 January 2013 23: 58
          Quote: Egoza
          In people, the incidence increased, because radiation background in those places also increased

          As I understand it, the mining will be carried out in the areas of coal mining and old gas fields. It’s kind of like dozens of dying towns, and even when the Soviet Union fired an atomic bomb, I don’t remember what to put out the fire or to increase the gas pressure. the atomic bomb was blown up.

          The only thing I don’t like is that, due to the pressure of the Russian Federation, Shell has to make big concessions on VAT refunds, different points, tax preferences. It wouldn’t work like the Russian Federation with their Sakhalin 1 and Sakhalin 2 when they paid extra for their gas to the Yankees .
          1. 0
            3 February 2013 22: 06
            > and in the days of the USSR, even the atamic bomb was vzarli.What would either extinguish the fire, or increase the gas pressure, I do not remember.
            Kars, are you talking about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_(nuclear_explosion)?
        2. Misantrop
          +2
          30 January 2013 00: 02
          Quote: Egoza
          radiation background in those places also increased

          Naturally, the soil is alarmed, popper radon. Hence the radioactivity.
        3. +2
          30 January 2013 18: 25
          Like in Japan, there is only an atomic bomb, and here it is a shale one. Besides ecology, explosions and gas pumping can significantly increase the possibility of earthquakes - in 2011, in Scotland, after using hydraulic fracturing technology to produce shale gas, two earthquakes occurred. Then the development of deposits in the UK was stopped. Bulgaria and France abandoned geological exploration and production of shale gas. ..
          1. sorokin
            0
            30 January 2013 22: 51
            Quote: knn54
            Bulgaria and France abandoned geological exploration and production of shale gas. ..
            Bolgarov, I think, Russia will talk about the completion of the Belene nuclear power plant. Gas has already flowed through them, On the roads of a gas station ... ten Shell Lukoils per Shell. A huge Lukoilovsky oil refinery was built near Burgas. Russian property owners are already under a million. Public opinion what any. I get to the apartment in Sunny Beach faster than to the cottage near Solnechnogorsk - in summer, half of the Russians are Russian. Well, there is a special tectonics. Fracking if they provoke the Vrancea zone in southern Romania will reach Moscow. as in 79 was.
    4. +2
      29 January 2013 22: 18
      Quote: dmitreach
      That is why there are no problems with the Germans?


      Really? They all seem to have sued gathered together with Gazprom in order to review the contracts in their favor. They say it’s too expensive, before this price was normal, but now let’s give a different price, after all, a crisis. And do not care about contracts.
      Although, as someone from Gazprom said, this is, you see, the usual European practice, they do business like that, it's okay. But to argue that with the Germans everything is good, I would not.

      And about the article - the title does not match the content. As the name suggests, one would expect at least some of the most overwhelming analysis of Ukraine's ability to "be energetically independent." But the text contains the nuances of pulling the "gas blanket". And whether there is life on Mars, is not there, the author did not think over, although apparently at the beginning he was going to, he even came up with a name.
    5. Hunghuz
      +1
      30 January 2013 13: 59
      hi Mona Naftagaz Mona Targ Svidomo, nezalezhnosti and independence? for example in Africa, in Asia and in America ....... ????????
    6. Cat
      0
      1 February 2013 11: 38
      IMHO, the current situation is the result of the butting of two groups - relatively speaking pro-Western and pro-Russian, approximately equal in capabilities. Plus or minus give 0, which gives the impression of trying to sit on two chairs. And Yanyk - maybe he wants it - but he can't (sorry for the pun smile )
  2. +3
    29 January 2013 09: 09
    Is energy independence of Ukraine possible?
    I did not understand the question in the headline, how can a state ensure its energy independence without having enough of its energy sources?
    1. +3
      29 January 2013 09: 13
      this means diversification of energy suppliers.
      1. 0
        29 January 2013 10: 59
        Quote: Ragnarek
        diversification of energy suppliers.

        Well, do they have a lot of choices?
        1. +14
          29 January 2013 11: 41
          Quote: Ragnarek
          this means diversification of energy suppliers.

          If I have lunch with Mani today, and tomorrow I will have Mani, the second with Gali, and the third with Vali, this does not mean that I will become food independent, it just means that if any of them sends me, then I will be where to eat, so as not to die of hunger. And I will be independent only when I eat at home. That is the problem of Ukraine, that she has nothing at home, well, or almost nothing.
          1. +3
            29 January 2013 12: 32
            You do not understand their policy, they thereby want to put pressure on us. There they are glad that they reduced consumption from us, only Gazprom billed them billions laughing because according to the concluded agreement they don’t buy, so they won’t buy, they will pay money for the forfeit laughing
          2. +10
            29 January 2013 13: 18
            VLADIMIRETS
            Hi colleague.
            Write correctly. But after eating you need Manya, Galya and Valya ... tongue
            And here the fun begins !!!
            From the point of view of nursing aunts - this is already b ... And it is not known who whom.
            And if there is also political impotence, then it’s just right to do cutting off (not to be confused with circumcision) at the very "do not indulge"! And get it in the impudent face. Only the Ukrainian people are waiting and hoping for something. I feel sorry for people, especially the elderly, who remember the common home - the USSR.
        2. +1
          29 January 2013 14: 18
          the fact of the matter is that in fact there is no choice
      2. Misantrop
        0
        29 January 2013 18: 58
        Quote: Ragnarek
        diversification of energy suppliers.
        If from the word "sabotage", then they can try wink
      3. mda
        mda
        +1
        30 January 2013 20: 26
        Quote: Ragnarek
        this means diversification of energy suppliers.

        Sometimes it starts to seem to me that Ukraine needs gas from anywhere, but not from Russia
  3. +11
    29 January 2013 09: 12
    to be honest, this circus with Ukraine is already tired. That’s why Ukraine should lower the price? They are a European country, independent, must comply with the terms of the signed contracts. Why should she be provided with any special conditions?
    1. -1
      29 January 2013 09: 24
      Quote: Ragnarek
      to be honest, this circus with Ukraine is already tired. That’s why Ukraine should lower the price? They are a European country, independent, must comply with the terms of the signed contracts. Why should she be provided with any special conditions?

      The impudence of the Ukrainian leadership will be given sideways to all the people of Ukraine.
      1. 0
        29 January 2013 09: 33
        And the people are not only the Crimea ...
        1. +3
          29 January 2013 11: 59
          So who they choose, they have
          1. +6
            29 January 2013 12: 26
            Quote: Andrey57
            So who they choose, they have

            Or do they have those whom they choose? .... what
            1. +1
              29 January 2013 23: 24
              Quote: Tersky
              Or do they have those whom they choose? ...

              The union said: "television HAS its audience."
  4. fenix57
    +8
    29 January 2013 09: 14
    Yanukovych is increasingly turning away from an alliance with Russia, preferring Europe and the USA to it. It's his choice. but worse from this will be only the PEOPLE OF UKRAINE. hi
    1. Xtra1l
      +2
      29 January 2013 10: 18
      He goes on about the zapadentsev since they occupied power, and that the EU will leave the country in millions as well as in neighboring countries. Courts will begin then the children should live in Ukraine, not in Russia
    2. +1
      29 January 2013 10: 46
      It’s time to send Yanukovych to a historical landfill! He is an enemy and, first of all, an enemy of Ukraine!
      1. Skavron
        +7
        29 January 2013 12: 59
        Quote: omsbon
        It’s time to send Yanukovych to a historical landfill! He is an enemy and, first of all, an enemy of Ukraine!

        And not only Yanukovych ... there are many who need to landfill
      2. 0
        30 January 2013 18: 05
        Quote: omsbon
        It’s time to send Yanukovych to a historical landfill! He is an enemy and, first of all, an enemy of Ukraine!

        What can he do against the "Western lobby" in the government, even with all his will ... request
        1. stroporez
          0
          4 February 2013 14: 09
          and why such a condom that can’t do anything. although why not a hell - a mago friend in Kremenchug famously took away a restaurant .....................
    3. MG42
      +5
      29 January 2013 21: 16
      Quote: fenix57
      Yanukovych is increasingly turning away from an alliance with Russia, preferring Europe and the USA to it. It's his choice. but only the PEOPLE OF UKRAINE will be worse from this

      The most interesting thing is that no one asks people = no referendum is planned. And opinion polls everyone knows that there are custom = poor selection. In short, he simply lied to put it mildly his voters in the east and south of Ukraine.
  5. Mik rybalko
    +2
    29 January 2013 09: 43
    How can there be a non-volatile Ukraine together with Georgia, without its own energy reserves and explored deposits. industrial scale.
    The energy independence of these states can arise only when they return to the Srednikova economy, apparently they are striving for this and are taking leaps and bounds.
    1. - = ALEX = -
      -13
      29 January 2013 11: 26
      Ukraine has a lot of proven energy reserves.
      1. +6
        29 January 2013 11: 30
        Quote: - = ALEX = -
        Ukraine has a lot of proven energy reserves

        Does Ukraine have a ton of money for their development? The mass of debts is not an example; a kindly request!
        1. - = ALEX = -
          -8
          29 January 2013 11: 36
          Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron have the money and technology and soon they will start drilling ..
          1. Mik rybalko
            +8
            29 January 2013 11: 54
            There is money but not for your HONOR!
            How many years have negotiations been held, promises are made and where are the results ..
            From the point of view of geology, the sedimentary cover of the Ukrainian trough is from 15 to 20 km.
            There are no such technologies in the world, and there will not be many more years ..
            The Kola face was 14000m ...
            And the cost of drilling the Kola ultra-deep is commensurate with the flight to the moon.
            Gas wells drilled in Ukraine are low flow rates and are not even commensurate with the volumes of the Yamal and Astrakhan wells ...
            1. +4
              29 January 2013 12: 07
              Ukraine has long developed and presented working samples of obtaining alternative energy - wind, solar ... only these were the developments of Ukrainian scientists. An interesting picture is obtained - what was done in Ukraine by its own people is not quoted, but what is being done by "foreigners" - go ahead and buy with a song. Maybe it would be better to spend money on your own people? To modernize production? Yes to the same mines !!! NO! I don't think there is a need to answer the question "who benefits from it."
              1. +5
                29 January 2013 12: 42
                Maybe it would be better to spend money on your own?

                The technologies presented by you are not profitable for businessmen, since they are too cheap and require constant care and modernization, and they are used to throwing everything into their pocket once invested in production. In addition, such energy sources will not give much, in my opinion, the efficiency of solar successors of the order of 8% is ridiculous, and oil industry workers will not give money to develop and improve. So a vicious circle is obtained.
              2. DmitriRazumov
                +3
                29 January 2013 13: 41
                In Germany, for example, all alternative energy (windmills, solar panels, etc.) is developed through state funding and only, which makes up a considerable share of the Bundesbudget. As it turned out recently, this type of mining email. energy is low efficient and does not cover the cost of it. Operation of windmills. cause considerable harm to the environment and wildlife, is very expensive. Therefore, especially in times of crisis, German authorities are reducing the funds allocated to these programs ...
              3. +7
                29 January 2013 18: 21
                Quote: Egoza

                Ukraine has long developed and presented operating models for producing alternative energy - wind, solar ... only these were the developments of Ukrainian scientists.

                I won't tell you about the solar one. Maybe somewhere in the Crimea it can be used. and some people use it. But this "alternative" source has not yet acquired industrial significance anywhere in the world.
                And the windmills actually did. On Yuzhmash. True, it was not their developments, but the Dutch. But alas. business did not go. It turns out expensive. nobody began to bother with them. For some time, a wind turbine stood near the Dnepropetrovsk airport, then, I look, there are no blades anymore, and a riser for the antennas of mobile operators was adapted. In order to receive at least somehow wind energy on a nominal scale, huge fields for wind turbines are needed. With hundreds of installations. Like in the same Holland. However, in Ukraine, it is probably more profitable to grow something on this land than to keep it under power plants. God and nature enable Ukraine to effectively cooperate with Russia. It is completely stupid and stupid not to understand and not to use it. The people now, by and large, do not care which oligarchs will command the economy in the country - Akhmetov with Pinchuk or Abramovich with Ponatin. As for me - the latter are even better - the scale is more serious.
              4. 0
                30 January 2013 19: 29
                There are no Shell-peers (in the industry) in corruption. The tops are waiting for a rollback ... or maybe they already got it.
            2. +3
              29 January 2013 19: 11
              Quote: Mik Rybalko
              And the cost of drilling the Kola ultra-deep is commensurate with the flight to the moon.

              Good idea, the moon is full of helium 3, as fuel for clean nuclear power plants. Maybe right to the moon?
              1. Mik rybalko
                +7
                29 January 2013 20: 09
                To send all deputies with a pickaxe, I think all citizens of Russia and Ukraine will be reset on a one-way ticket ..
            3. sorokin
              0
              30 January 2013 23: 02
              Quote: Mik Rybalko
              And the cost of drilling the Kola ultra-deep is commensurate with the flight to the moon.
              That is, if for the money, we still "flew" to the moon. what
          2. +4
            29 January 2013 12: 01
            Quote: - = ALEX = -
            Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron have the money and technology and soon they will start drilling ..


            forgot about Lukoil laughing
            1. +1
              29 January 2013 12: 56
              Quote: Apollon
              forgot about Lukoil

              But I didn’t forget about the minus laughing
          3. +12
            29 January 2013 12: 04
            Exactly !!!!! It is in these companies that all the light charity of the World is concentrated !!! They sleep and see how to do good to Nenka Ukraine !!! Only now the "stupid" French have banned the extraction of shale gas in sandstone shale of the same structure as in Ukraine, for environmental reasons, not financial. And France also needs gas, I think, no less than Ukraine.
          4. +7
            29 January 2013 12: 39
            Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron have the money and technology and soon they will start drilling ..

            Ahaha, oh handsome good Do you think they will drill for their money and sell pennies for 3? good I’ll tell you a secret that even if your government produces gas at home, then your prices will not go down, that’s the truth of life, do you really think that gas companies will miss the opportunity to cut money for you? We also raised gas prices, allegedly in connection with with a shortage of it in the domestic market, now there is enough gasoline, but here the prices have remained the same, so you will have gas. But you didn’t wonder why shale gas is produced so little in Europe? laughing So get it, soon you will live in a pit with such booty, when you have an ecosystem like the Chinese will have, good luck, just don’t forget to pay us for the forfeit, the contract is concluded for several years ahead hi
          5. +6
            29 January 2013 12: 44
            Quote: - = ALEX = -
            Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron have the money and technology and soon they will start drilling ..

            Already rushed, and drilled, and drilled, and pump, and pump. There were some fools in the Union, they mastered cold Siberia, and here in (or in) Ukraine there is so much of this kind belay
          6. +5
            29 January 2013 12: 55
            Quote: - = ALEX = -
            Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron have the money and technology and soon they will start drilling ..

            Well, who will belong to Ukrainian gas? Ukraine or the one who pays?
          7. +4
            29 January 2013 14: 20
            og, they had already drunk in poland. Especially when there will still be this production, and now what will you do?
          8. +5
            29 January 2013 15: 49
            Quote: - = ALEX = -
            Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron have the money and technology and soon they will start drilling ..

            They will drill a hole in your pocket and your ecology.
          9. Gans72
            -8
            29 January 2013 17: 08
            Do not prove it. It is impossible for them to prove anything. Here the mind gives way to mass psychosis. Here's how they want it to be as they say everything. Soon the gas monopoly will come to an end. The Amers have developed a technology for extracting oil and gas from shale. And we have this good. I think technology to share, if only Ukraine does not reunite with Russia. I think that the government will have enough will not to join the TS. The people who have the word "shit" instead of hello is not a brother to us. I know what I'm talking about. I lived in Russia for a long time. There out of 10 people, 2 are normal, the rest are drunk, or inadequate with Napoleon's ambitions.
            1. +8
              29 January 2013 18: 34
              Quote: GANS72
              Amer developed a technology for oil and gas from oil shale

              Read bedtime stories to your children. Nothing has changed in principle. If you are interested, look for serious articles on this subject in the internet and do not believe various nonsense about the "shale revolution". Although, personally, I don't think this is necessary for you. Your "brothers" walk the streets of the cities and shout "Bandera dick".
              1. Gans72
                -7
                29 January 2013 19: 52
                I can’t stand Bandera and my comrades either. I am generally Russian by nationality. Before I registered at this forum, I had the best feelings for Russia. Having talked a bit with Russians about the issue, I changed my point of view. I can’t stand Bandera , as before, but now I’m not calling my brother Russian.
                1. +3
                  30 January 2013 00: 03
                  Quote: GANS72
                  I can’t stand Bandera, as before, but now I can’t call a Russian brother.

                  You shouldn't be like that. If you were offended by HAM and others like that, this troll has achieved his goal today, got it. HAM and others like them do not work "by contradiction", for money specifically pushing the residents of Ukraine away from Russia
                2. +3
                  30 January 2013 00: 09
                  I'm generally Russian by nationality

                  Where did you endure, gus nationality?
                3. 0
                  30 January 2013 18: 36
                  Quote: GANS72

                  Bandera and comrades, I also can not stand.

                  I'm generally Russian by nationality.
                  Before I registered at this forum, I felt the best feelings for Russia.

                  You are not Russian, and not Ukrainian, you F, I, D ...! ! !

                  Quote: GANS72
                  Having talked here a bit with the Russians C o r e ts, changed his point of view. I can’t stand Bandera’s, as before,

                  but now I’m not calling my brother Russian

                  ... "YOU DO NOT BROTHER ME" ... TO RUSSIAN ... am ...! ! !

                  And your little word confirms it only ... wassat
                4. 0
                  30 January 2013 21: 18
                  From the experience of communication on the network I made a firm conclusion - the word used to refer to Russian patriotism is used exclusively by traitors.
                5. 0
                  30 January 2013 23: 37
                  But you didn’t become brothers when you separated from the Union, when you began to redraw history, you found an unprecedented tribe of ukrov.
            2. Misantrop
              +4
              29 January 2013 19: 06
              Quote: GANS72
              The people whose word "shit" instead of hello is not a brother to us

              Is that you about yourself?
            3. +4
              29 January 2013 22: 09
              Quote: GANS72
              The people whose word "shit" instead of hello is not a brother to us

              Hello, Troll!
              Quote: GANS72
              . In Russia, he lived a long time.

              Judging by the text, we didn’t live when (at least think about it, we live here constantly and present the difference between the description and the real picture very well).
              Quote: GANS72
              And we have this good.

              Sure? I can shock you. But in such matters one can confidently speak only when the well produced oil / gas. I’m telling you as a person working in the oil and gas industry. About how many wells drilled around the world in the empty !!!! Deneeg ditched !!!!!!! Do not tell the forum users.
              Quote: GANS72
              I think to share technology, if only Ukraine did not join Russia.

              Yes!!!!! Often you traveled outside Ukraine. With that kind of logic. I do not want to insult the people of Ukraine in any way (I have had relatives there many times, my father-in-law from western Ukraine, my brother-in-law's wife, a Kiev citizen), just like that, only a young man with propaganda-washed brains in a relatively isolated information space can reason. As a result, they
              Quote: GANS72
              It is impossible to prove anything to them. Here the mind is inferior to mass psychosis.
              1. Gans72
                +1
                30 January 2013 00: 32
                I worked in Surgut, in the CIS. About "shit" I speak firsthand. Communicate with the Vyatskys, you will understand what I mean. No one washed my brains. I received my education at the Union. But then, this is not now. Then, first of all, I was taught to think. Ukraine, too, live constantly. And the difference between what they write here and the way it is, I can also see. You live no better. Only megapoles and oil and gas producing cities live normally, and the rest of Russia?
                1. Diesel
                  0
                  30 January 2013 14: 01
                  Quote: GANS72
                  Live normally


                  What do you think this means?
                2. +2
                  30 January 2013 17: 52
                  I do not live in a metropolis, I visit Ukraine, I see the difference and not in your favor!
            4. mcvdvlad
              +2
              29 January 2013 23: 08
              damn it, shit to you (it's hello instead)))), your comment just the same made you smile, right, bring it to Europe, there are adequate and other minority sexes in abundance
            5. +1
              30 January 2013 17: 47
              Well, no luck with your friends! It happens!
            6. 0
              30 January 2013 18: 26
              Quote: GANS72
              Amer developed a technology for oil and gas from oil shale. And we have this good. I think we’ll share technology if Ukraine does not join Russia.

              I think that the government will have enough will not to join the TS. The people who have the word "shit" instead of hello is not a brother to us.

              I know what I'm talking about. I have lived in Russia for a long time. There, out of 10 people, 2 normal, the rest are drunk, or inadequate with Napoleon’s ambitions.

              Why did I come here ... what ...?

              SOON YOU WILL GET SKULLS ... angry
          10. Misantrop
            +5
            29 January 2013 19: 01
            Quote: - = ALEX = -
            Shell, ExxonMobil, Chevron have the money and technology and soon they will start drilling ..

            They milk will begin even before the first rig goes on the road. And the fact that for starters they will drive to a stall, so you should not doubt it laughing
          11. Gans2
            +2
            29 January 2013 19: 34
            gee .... they really get you drunk and welded, as with the Spanish project
        2. Quit
          +3
          29 January 2013 13: 28
          Alexander Romanov,
          If you consider yourself a great specialist in economics in Ukraine, you should understand that the needs of housing and communal services, that is, the population, are completely covered by gas of our own production, the cost of which is from 12 to 20 euros per thousand cubic meters (Poltavaneftegaz - 130 UAH., Chernomorneftegaz - 230- 240 UAH). And our Malanians-oligarchs will agree on deliveries themselves, you just have to tear them away from cheap Ukrainian gas. And the myth of the imminent uselessness of the Ukrainian pipe swells for noise: the cost of transit laid in the southern and northern flows is 4 times higher than the transit of Ukrainian GTS.po and the Rothschilds were launched into development to the east of Ukraine, that it would be more convenient to agree so: the Russians would go on laying in deliveries, as it was before, well, they won’t; Yanek would have his gesheft with the Rothschilds, and from the factory for floating Qatar gas liquefied near Odessa .
          1. +8
            29 January 2013 14: 08
            Quote: Quit
            - Yanek will have his own gesheft with the Rothschilds, and from the factory of the floating Qatar gas liquefaction near Odessa.

            Tell me the one from the Rothschilds who at least raped something?. Who the Rothschild raped did not need to be called.
            As for the gas liquefaction plant, you already signed a contract with some kind of clowns. Until now, even Yanek can’t understand with whom they signed.
            A. The plant needs to be built with your own money.
            B. The noise along the pipe is not quite an uproar; for the hype, 10 billion bucks will not be thrown out, especially European countries. This is about the construction of the U stream.
            1. Quit
              +3
              29 January 2013 14: 35
              Alexander Romanov,
              If you’re talking about something, then you speak with knowledge of the matter, or at least with numbers, not slogans. And the Rothschilds and Rockefellers (in the case of Russia) conclude agreements before developing a joint production sharing. In our case, this agreement assumes on average, the production section is about 45% -Ukraine, 55% -SHELL. In the factory near Odessa, again, you are not up to date. The unsigned agreement you mentioned concerns the second stage of this factory, and for the first there are no obstacles — the floating factory will start work in the summer, everything is ready for this (the factory has already been leased, its money has been paid ) The 10 billion that you are talking about is completely taken from a discount to European countries, project participants, under long-term Gazprom contracts, that is, the RF budget is all transparent figures regularly published by the relevant department of the European Commission.
              1. Misantrop
                +4
                29 January 2013 19: 08
                Quote: Quit
                In our case, this agreement assumes, on average, the production sharing is about 45% -Ukraine, 55% -SHELL
                What are the shares of environmental disaster risks at the production site? Remind about the Gulf of Mexico, or do you remember?
                1. Quit
                  +1
                  29 January 2013 19: 33
                  Misantrop,
                  This is a question for those who issued licenses and for people who have chosen such a local government, which without expertise falsifies any decisions that are beneficial to Janek.
            2. 0
              29 January 2013 17: 39
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Tell me onewho with the Rothschilds, at least something raped?.Who raped Rothschild does not need to be called.


              Sasha, I get the impression that you, before registering at the VO forum, took special courses, I’m watching your comments, the conclusion is verified and honed good share a secret, and wassat
          2. +6
            29 January 2013 18: 50
            Quote: Quit
            Yanek will have his gesheft with the Rothschilds, and from the factory of the floating Qatar gas liquefaction near Odessa.

            And why do you think the Germans and Italians (the pioneers of liquefied gas technology) nevertheless decided to participate in the construction of the pipeline from Russia and take gas there, rather than transport them to Qatar, the gas will "get on". Although it is much closer and more convenient for them than for Ukraine? They do not need to buy "factories" either. And the technology is well mastered.
            For this purpose, liquefied gas is liquefied, so that it can be transported where pipelines cannot reach. Nobody normal, having a pipeline from the fields of ordinary gas, will not import liquefied gas. This is corny stupid and quite expensive. And the price of cheap Qatari gas is formed in a very specific way, depending on Qatari oil production and sales within OPEC. These conditions are very fragile. Gas is cheap today. and tomorrow, for no apparent reason, may become much more expensive. And where, then, to put the "floating factory" for a billion?
            1. Quit
              +1
              29 January 2013 19: 57
              ikrut,
              Are you well acquainted with the balance of gas received in Europe? The European Union receives gas almost everywhere, including from the Middle East. If you delve into the question, you will realize that tanker gas supplies are more efficient with a transport distance of 2000 km. This is a clean economy. But there is still politics))), plus the interests of the owners of pipelines. For example, in Germany, the tariff for pumping is from 9 euros per 1000 cubic meters, and in Denmark is 17 euros. This is not for you beggarly Ukrainian 1,85. Why do you think Europe gets from Gazprom is not more than 30% of the gas in the overall balance? Perhaps fools are sitting there, because , by your logic, it’s easier to download everything from one pipe. This is called diversification of supplies and factories here is very useful, like the notorious floating platform towers Boyko. Gas and oil-product are global and the price is formed globally.
          3. +1
            30 January 2013 21: 28
            I'm sorry, but about the Ukrainian pipe ... in general, such a pipe is almost gone. The fact is that in the banking sector it is only possible to steal fiercely and be stable in chocolate. In technology (and for theft it is totally forgotten) you need to invest a lot of money back. This manager from the heights of the office desk metal seems so monumental, powerful, eternal ... steal - I do not want. In fact, the metal is so fragile!
            In short, the GTS of Ukraine is worn out and irreversible. At some point, it was too late to repair it, now the repair costs will exceed the costs of new construction, and at times. This is also a response to the crazy ideas about Gazprom buying shares of the Ukrainian GTS. Build a new GTS in Ukraine NOW .... you are animals, gentlemen ...
      2. Mik rybalko
        +1
        29 January 2013 11: 37
        WHERE ARE THEY EXPLORED ARE NOT IN RUSSIA?
      3. barbell
        +12
        29 January 2013 12: 20
        yeah, the mass of explored energy in the form of dung and straw.
      4. +7
        29 January 2013 15: 06
        "Ukraine has a lot of proven energy reserves." Of course. Biofuels from city sewers. And the most important, strategic reserve is the Supreme Zrada itself. wassat
      5. MG42
        +7
        29 January 2013 16: 17
        They will pollute the whole ecology with this cf @ nce gas in the east of Ukraine. For the first time I will say that the Galicians are right when they did not give permission to develop at home.
        1. Akim
          -5
          29 January 2013 16: 19
          Quote: MG42
          They will pollute the whole ecology with this valuable gas in the east of Ukraine. AT

          And why in the USA are massively drilled?
          1. MG42
            +4
            29 January 2013 16: 25
            You read what will happen to the groundwater = US problems and I do not care much = you know my views. The Britons have already stated that they give NO guarantee. bully By the way, there is an intermediary like RosUkrEnergo in the agreement.
            1. Akim
              -4
              29 January 2013 16: 33
              Quote: MG42
              By the way, there is an intermediary like RosUkrEnergo in the agreement.

              There are always intermediaries. And drilling goes at a depth of more than 5 thousand km. There is no groundwater there. I posted a video below about it.
              1. MG42
                +3
                29 January 2013 16: 44
                Quote: Akim
                And drilling goes at a depth of more 5 thousand km

                Akim is just funny over 5 thousand km? laughing Clearly there are no ground waters = there the temperature in the center of the Earth’s core reaches 5000 C
                1. Akim
                  0
                  29 January 2013 16: 47
                  MG42,
                  I burst. METERS! This is exactly what I wanted to write.
                  1. MG42
                    -1
                    29 January 2013 16: 51
                    Well, what then slammed the minus? Or is it your friend kars?
                    1. Akim
                      0
                      29 January 2013 16: 56
                      MG42,

                      I do not minus in-a-ah-absche! What's the point? It is better to write an answer or admit your mistake.
                      1. MG42
                        0
                        29 January 2013 17: 04
                        Yes, I know that you are not + personally. By the way, who signed the agreement on the “LNG terminal” from Spain from Ukraine, and what powers did he have?
                      2. Akim
                        0
                        29 January 2013 17: 13
                        Quote: MG42
                        By the way, who signed the agreement on the “LNG terminal” from Spain from Ukraine, and what powers did he have?


                        Jordi Sarda Bonway - but his powers - a muddy occupation.
                      3. MG42
                        +4
                        29 January 2013 17: 19
                        Bonvey is really Spanish and has three companies in Barcelona. All of them are engaged in real estate and land purchase and sale. One of them has a loud name "Ukrainvest". However, this citizen has nothing to do with gas, especially liquefied gas. wassat
                      4. MG42
                        +4
                        29 January 2013 17: 30
                        Kars can’t calm down? That you voluptuously post photos of the Nazis on the forum and their technology! MG 42 can mean anything from the initials of age, etc. What difference does it make to you?
                        Meet the Guard sergeant Smirnov with the captured MG 42 machine gun - photo from Alexey Smirnov's front-line album
                      5. MG42
                        +8
                        29 January 2013 17: 40
                        The participant of the Great Patriotic War, the holder of the orders of Glory of the 2nd and 3rd degrees, Alexei Smirnov was widely known for his comedic roles in the movies, the most famous of which was the parasite Fedya from the movie "Operation" Y "and other adventures of Shurik." Later, Alexei Smirnov was opened to the audience as a talented dramatic actor, primarily due to the role of the mechanic Makarych in Leonid Bykov's film “Only Old Men Are Going to the Battle”.
                        Come on minus one! Just count how many photos you have in the comments with the fascists and their technique.

                        Photo Smirnov from the Soviet classic comedy dir. Gaid ..
                      6. MG42
                        +2
                        29 January 2013 18: 08
                        It is a pity that the blacklist is not perfect from people like you Kars. What braid? You rave and continue to methodically post pictures with the Nazis on the forum. Find at least one comment sympathetic to fascism. lol
                      7. MG42
                        +2
                        29 January 2013 20: 13
                        So I realized what kind of braid Hitler had = I found a photo of him with a braid like Tymoshenko laughing
                      8. 0
                        29 January 2013 22: 34
                        As far as I remember, Smirnov is a FULL Knight of the Orders of Glory ... or am I confused something?
                      9. MG42
                        +2
                        29 January 2013 22: 57
                        Quote: I think so
                        or am I confused something?

                        Yes. Above, everything is correctly written in my comment. Here memory site of Alexey Smirnov read. He commanded a fire platoon in the 169th mortar regiment, went from a private to a lieutenant, was seriously wounded. He was awarded the Orders of Glory - 2nd and 3rd degree, the Order of the Red Star, medals "For Courage" and "For Military Merit".
                        http://www.aleksey-smirnov.ru/
                  2. -4
                    29 January 2013 17: 13
                    I don’t understand how do you even find yourself talking about socializing with an individual who has identified himself during registration .. Hitler’s scythe ..?
                2. Frigate
                  +2
                  29 January 2013 19: 43
                  Quote: MG42

                  Akim is just funny over 5 thousand km? Clearly there are no ground waters = there the temperature in the center of the Earth’s core reaches 5000

                  What is underground and what is there, remains only a theory, well, just in case, I wrote, all of a sudden, there are conspiracy theorists insiders. Get ready to defend your theory
              2. Misantrop
                +2
                29 January 2013 19: 11
                Quote: Akim
                drilling goes at a depth of more than 5 thousand km

                Finger to the globe? Share Technology laughing
                In the USSR, it was not possible to drill deeper than 14 km (for the rest, even more so). And here the private trader nearly gathered to drill through the Earth wassat
              3. +5
                29 January 2013 19: 11
                Quote: Akim
                drilling is at a depth of more than 5 thousand km. There is no groundwater there.

                Drilling is much smaller. And, ch. image - horizontally. And fresh! water is pumped into the shale layer for fracturing (such a technology) and displaces the gas. Technology is extremely negative for the environment. But for Ukraine it is generally unacceptable. In Ukraine, there is already a shortage of fresh water. And the water that is pumped into the pits is not only lost forever for use, but also pollutes existing sources of groundwater.
              4. Frigate
                +1
                29 January 2013 19: 40
                Quote: Akim
                And drilling goes at a depth of more than 5 thousand km. There is no groundwater there. I posted a video below about it.

                Probably dear 5 thousand meters meant
          2. +4
            29 January 2013 19: 06
            Quote: Akim
            And why in the USA are massively drilled?

            Just yesterday I read the translations of American sources that in the areas of oil shale drilling, the water in the wells is 85% polluted. And in some places they already use imported water. And in the United States, the areas where shale are drilled are not very populated. In general, this "shale revolution" has a huge number of nuances. And it is the American specificity that is colossally great. Apparently because nowhere else in the world has this "revolution" somehow manifested itself. Although technologies have been known since the 20s of the last century.
          3. -2
            30 January 2013 19: 03
            Quote: Akim
            And why in the USA are massively drilled?

            They drill in the deserts of Arizona, Colorado, Texas, and not on fertile chernozems ...
            1. Akim
              -2
              30 January 2013 19: 29
              Quote: GRIGORIY1957
              They drill in the deserts of Arizona, Colorado, Texas, and not on fertile chernozems ...


              I wasn’t really “steamed”. I went to the English Wikipedia. There is gas (shale) in 48 states.

              Buryat: Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Allabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Louisiana, Illinois, Ohio, New York. About a million wells were made. Of course, these are not all fertile lands. And the black soil. Do you know how much they steal it in Ukraine?
            2. -1
              30 January 2013 23: 45
              Minus, justify what is wrong ... request ...?
              1. Akim
                0
                31 January 2013 00: 08
                GRIGORIY1957,
                Yes, because in one state of New York there is a population of almost half of Ukraine (20 million). They would risk such a crowd of people. Remember the film "The Contract of the Century" when our country (USSR) was pulling gas to Europe, and America wanted to prevent it. Now Russia is doing the same. This is a lot of money and + they whip up politics.
            3. stroporez
              0
              4 February 2013 14: 23
              and according to official statistics, over 20000 poisonings by drinking water have already been reported ..................................
        2. +5
          29 January 2013 18: 53
          Quote: MG42
          They will pollute the whole ecology with this cf @ nce gas in eastern Ukraine

          They will not be dirtied, because they will not find shale gas there. In Poland it was already like that. We have the same conditions approximately.
          1. MG42
            +3
            29 January 2013 19: 18
            Quote: ikrut
            that they won’t find shale gas there

            Greetings! I am only for +. hi
            The draft production sharing agreement with Royal Dutch Shell, which allows to begin development of the Yuzovsky shale gas field, in the presence of the Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources of Ukraine Oleg Proskuryakov, was approved by deputies of the Donetsk region, where the production site is located, reports Vzglyad.
            “In the case of the success of prospecting works at the Yuzovsky site, we are already through five to six years we can reach volumes of gas production of several billion cubic meters per year, and in 10 years - volumes of 8-10 billion m³ or more, ”said Proskuryakov.

            By the way, if successful, then Ukraine will live these 5-6 years. Are you aware of the latest penalties of $ 7 billion from Gazprom for gas shortages in 2012? Now they have actively requested assistance from the IMF. hi Yes, there really are no guarantees = difficult conditions, but there is already an intermediary = another LLC.
      6. +8
        29 January 2013 18: 10
        Quote: - = ALEX = -
        Ukraine has a lot of proven energy reserves.

        This is what other reserves are "mass". Well, name a couple of proven gas fields, offhand? What's Shell going to drill there? Looking for shale gas? This has already been done in Poland. At first they promised reserves for 400 years - of the type - "there are a lot of reserves" - but when they got drilled, it turned out that there were no reserves for a year. The Polish gas bubble burst without inflating. And what are we going to fill those shale horizons with? There is no water. Small rivers are almost completely shallow. The lakes were rising almost everywhere. Where I used to catch crucian carp 5 years ago, now I go by car. Then, after the extraction of shale gas (if we are very lucky and find something), will we buy fresh water in Russia? And all for what? Amuse the ambitions of the cave dwellers and Banderlog?
        1. 0
          30 January 2013 11: 47
          Quote: ikrut
          Then, after the extraction of shale gas (if you are very lucky and find something) will we buy fresh water in Russia?

          But cho, what will the gas pipeline load ...
      7. Gans2
        -2
        29 January 2013 19: 32
        here and use what is! and do not whine
      8. -2
        30 January 2013 18: 11
        Quote: - = ALEX = -

        Ukraine has a lot of proven energy reserves.

        It is called ONCE WOULD BLACK ...

        First you need to think ... then talk ... fool
      9. sorokin
        +1
        30 January 2013 22: 59
        Quote: - = ALEX = -
        Ukraine has a lot of proven energy reserves.

        Yeah, most of these "explored" energy carriers are transported in transit through pipes to Europe.
    2. DmitriRazumov
      +6
      29 January 2013 13: 35
      Westerners have just entered this blessed era of subsistence farming. All healthy and able-bodied men go to Poland, England and others for part-time jobs. The position of an illegal English plumber is considered a great success. Nonetheless, stout nationalism flourishes in relation to everything Russian. In truth, you will remember the German major general from "Seventeen Moments of Spring", who said that the psychology of small shopkeepers gives rise to Nazism and the SS.
      1. 0
        29 January 2013 16: 50
        And besides housing and communal services in Ukraine, it seems, there was also some kind of production. Or not already? smile
  6. Khokhol-MSC
    +8
    29 January 2013 09: 43
    Bylin. Correct if I am mistaken.
    In 2012, the gold and foreign exchange reserves of Ukraine decreased by 20% and amounted to about $ 24,5 billion (source: http://podrobnosti.ua/economy/2013/01/04/880231.html)

    Since Naftogaz cannot pay the bill, which was signed in the framework of European practice, it will be difficult for Europeans to defend Ukraine, even in spite of the Russian Federation, because If a legal precedent is created, then most likely Ukraine will be forced to pay it. those. - 7 billion. $

    In addition, during 2013, Ukraine is obliged to return to the IMF, it seems $ 8 billion. (added. wrong. $ 6 billion. http://news.rambler.ru/16689904/)

    It should also be noted that with the games started on energy, with a high probability in 2013, one more account will run at least $ 7 billion for gas.

    Total: 24,5 - 7 - 6 - 7 = 4,5 (adjusted for information.)

    That is, according to the results of 2013, Ukraine is a country full of bankrupt? belay
    1. +9
      29 January 2013 09: 47
      Quote: Crest-MSC
      Bylin. Correct if I am mistaken.
      In 2012, the gold and foreign exchange reserves of Ukraine decreased by 20% and amounted to about 22 billion. $

      Since Naftogaz cannot pay the bill, which was signed in the framework of European practice, it will be difficult for Europeans to defend Ukraine, even in spite of the Russian Federation, because If a legal precedent is created, then most likely Ukraine will be forced to pay it. those. - 7 billion. $

      In addition, during 2013, Ukraine is obliged to return to the IMF, it seems $ 8 billion.

      It should also be noted that with the games started on energy, with a high probability in 2013, one more account will run at least $ 7 billion for gas.

      Total: 22 - 7 - 8 - 7 = 0

      That is, according to the results of 2013, Ukraine is a country full of bankrupt?

      I propose to forgive Ukraine the account for 2012. In response, we get the Crimea with the base of the Black Sea Fleet, CITY HERO SEVASTOPOL !!!! By the right of Russia and not Ukraine.
      1. Mik rybalko
        +2
        29 January 2013 10: 34
        Why should they forgive?
        They owe Russia so much that the whole Crimea will soon be returned for debts ..
        This is the money of the state and all citizens of Russia, each
        1. Skavron
          -6
          29 January 2013 11: 15
          Quote: Mik Rybalko
          Crimea will soon be returned for debts.

          Yes? Why do you need Crimea?
          Only essentially ...
          1. +12
            29 January 2013 11: 28
            Quote: Skavron
            Yes? Why do you need Crimea?
            Only essentially ...

            Then what is the native Russian land. Under Peter I, Azov was recaptured from the Turks, and under Catherine II, Crimea was completely cleared of the Turks and became part of the Russian Empire. I want to note that the Ukrainian Cossacks, at the beginning of this company acted against Russia. But then, realizing that Russia was winning, they sided with it. It was Russia that built the City of Sevastopol and other large cities on the territory of Crimea. The largest city in the Crimea was Bakhchisaray. The Crimea, given during the reign of Khrushchev, as well as a decent part of the territory, such as Donbas and all that is east of the Dnieper Before joining Russia, was the territory of Russia.
            At present, Ukraine’s debt is such that Russia can safely demand repayment of debt by the territory. At the very least, Russia has a fleet in the Black Sea, which will grow substantially by 2020, but the prospects of the Ukrainian fleet, like the MBT of Ukraine, are unenviable. I’m even afraid to imagine yesterday’s Latvian parade on Khreshchatyk in Kiev.
            CAPACITIES: And if Ukraine continues to act in the same way, then in the territory of Crimea we will have another focus of Islamism thanks to the Crimean Tatars.
            1. Skavron
              -6
              29 January 2013 11: 33
              I asked to answer a simple question, but did not ask for an excursion into history, and as I understand it, you don’t know the story too.

              Is Alaska also native Russian land?
              Forward and with the song ... select))))))
              1. +4
                29 January 2013 11: 37
                Quote: Skavron
                I asked to answer a simple question, but did not ask for an excursion into history, and as I understand it, you don’t know the story too.

                Is Alaska also native Russian land?
                Forward and with the song ... select))))))

                Dear I know the story well. But your knowledge of history ends with history textbooks of Ukrainian production. USA Alaska at least bought !!!! Something I do not recall the dividends from Ukraine for the use of the Crimea and other territories.
                1. Skavron
                  +4
                  29 January 2013 11: 43
                  Well, about Alaska - it was a joke))) I thought I would understand.

                  Good. Story.
                  Quote: PROXOR
                  I want to note that the Ukrainian Cossacks, at the beginning of this company acted against Russia.

                  Yes? Is it said in your textbooks? And those Cossacks who fought against the Turks, Tatars and Poles on the side of the Russian troops do not count ??? One-sidedly think buddy.
                  And 100 years of battles between Cossacks and the Crimean Khanate? Doesn’t count too?
                  1. +1
                    29 January 2013 11: 50
                    Quote: Skavron
                    Yes? Is it said in your textbooks? And those Cossacks who fought against the Turks, Tatars and Poles on the side of the Russian troops do not count ??? One-sidedly think buddy.
                    And 100 years of battles between Cossacks and the Crimean Khanate? Doesn’t count too?

                    That's it, and read it. At least Valentin Pikul! In the ranks of the Crimean Tatars in the beginning of the company, a decent group of Zaporizhzhya Cossacks acted. During the company to conquer the Crimea, they all sided with Russia. What themselves in St. Petersburg swore to Catherine II.
                    In a further polemic with you on history, I see no reason due to your complete historical illiteracy !!!!
                    1. Skavron
                      +1
                      29 January 2013 12: 02
                      ABOUT! Class!
                      You are so limited that you give me an example, albeit a wonderful one, and my dearly beloved, BUT ARTISTIC writer. Indeed, it makes no sense to engage in polemics with you. In view of your misunderstanding of the difference between fiction and scientific literature.
                      1. Skavron
                        0
                        29 January 2013 12: 15
                        By the way, have you heard about Karamzin Nikolai Mikhalych?
                      2. +1
                        29 January 2013 12: 21
                        Quote: Skavron
                        ABOUT! Class!
                        You are so limited that you give me an example, albeit a wonderful one, and my dearly beloved, BUT ARTISTIC writer. Indeed, it makes no sense to engage in polemics with you. In view of your misunderstanding of the difference between fiction and scientific literature.

                        Precisely because of your ignorance, I advised you Pikul. But if you feel in yourself the strength to read, then go ahead.
                    2. -2
                      29 January 2013 12: 30
                      Quote: PROXOR
                      That's it, and read it. At least Valentin Pikul!

                      I read the complete works, and what? Ah, are you about the place where the massacre of the faithful and unfaithful Cossacks is described? Or that some of the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks beat the Turkish Sultan with a brow and founded the Zadunaisky Sich? Reread the work carefully, everything mixed up in your head . Well, if you think I'm wrong, please give the work and chapter specifically.
                      By the way, why did the "infidel" Cossacks appear in the service of the Sultan?
                      1. -1
                        29 January 2013 12: 36
                        Quote: revnagan
                        I read the complete works, and what? Ah, are you about the place where the massacre of the faithful and unfaithful Cossacks is described? Or that some of the Zaporizhzhya Cossacks beat the Turkish Sultan with a brow and founded the Zadunaisky Sich? Reread the work carefully, everything mixed up in your head . Well, if you think I'm wrong, please give the work and chapter specifically.
                        By the way, why did the "infidel" Cossacks appear in the service of the Sultan?

                        Conducting at least some sort of normal polemic with people who have a definitely directed gaze. doesn't make any sense. Good luck to you Slav brothers. Ponder your grace, we ask for a bow.
                      2. Skavron
                        0
                        29 January 2013 13: 04
                        That is not of course, we have very different views, just instead of essentially speaking, you move out to unnecessary polemics.
                        I brought you the author. Russian. He did not write in the 20th century, so there is no modern conjuncture. Please deign to read, and then we'll talk.
                      3. 0
                        29 January 2013 16: 52
                        Quote: PROXOR
                        Conducting at least some sort of normal polemic with people who have a definitely directed gaze. doesn't make any sense. Good luck to you Slav brothers. Ponder your grace, we ask for a bow.

                        Everything is clear, there is nothing to cover (this is about the work In Pikul). And as for gas ...
                        Ordinary Russians, the people, can rejoice as much as they want at how Gazprom put Ukraine on its grandmother. Ordinary Ukrainians can grieve about this as much as they want. Understand, to you, to you personally and to your loved ones, even if even a ruble of these 7 billion drops, then it will be a great success. But most likely, ordinary Russians will not get anything, everything will go in transit into the pockets of your oligarchs. After all, the oligarchs, ours and yours, are simply not able to part with even a small fraction of what was acquired by back-breaking labor. that if you still get some pennies from this money, then it will be money squeezed out by our oligarchs from us, ordinary Ukrainians, workers, pensioners. And perhaps this money was not enough for some pensioner for medicine or a piece of bread and he died .And remember the saying that happiness cannot be built on someone else's misfortune.
                      4. SASCHAmIXEEW
                        +2
                        30 January 2013 14: 32
                        jealousy your oligarchs milk you, ours, we have something to share! If the country was one, then we would all have something from taxes, but in words "Gazprom is the people's wealth" Gazprom has been in the hands of the Family since the times of the Black-Faced Ghoul and Bespaly, with the advice, dividends went to the budget, now in theirs pockets, hence the billionaires, it's simple! And we just have to let the steam down here, barking at each other! It plays into their hands!
                      5. +1
                        30 January 2013 12: 00
                        Quote: PROXOR
                        Ponder your grace, we ask for a bow.

                        Do not drop the address, where to run - then bow down ...
                  2. +1
                    29 January 2013 15: 21
                    Registered goats are political prostitutes. Trotsky is resting. The classic representative is pan Khmelnitsky. Already swept the whole poor thing, did not know whom to join with the economy (Ukraine). Grandmother Catherine did not gnaw at one nail until she found a place and occupation.
                    1. +4
                      29 January 2013 19: 35
                      Quote: ymNIK1970
                      Registered goats are political prostitutes.

                      Wow! Not that word. They opposed the Polish king for not paying them money when they rebelled.
                  3. Marek Rozny
                    +2
                    30 January 2013 03: 02
                    Quote: Skavron
                    And 100 years of battles between Cossacks and the Crimean Khanate? Doesn’t count too?

                    The Cossacks fought with the Crimeans only when they were directed by the Poles and Russians. And when the Ukrainian Cossacks wanted to secede from the Poles, it was the Crimeans who supported them in the war against the gentry. True, in the end Khmelnitsky, who called the Crimean commander Tugai-bey his "beloved brother" and said that "he is my soul," nevertheless decided to go under someone else's citizenship - now Russian.
                2. anton107798
                  -2
                  29 January 2013 20: 05
                  Yes, you barely shoved Alaska. Teach your story, no one wanted to take it, while the cats were there, while they were sitting, and then the dick didn’t need the land, well, you shouldn’t hurry up quickly ... Fort ROSS now has it like a museum, amers go and laugh from stupid Russians who gave away such a piece of land for nothing
                  1. SASCHAmIXEEW
                    -1
                    30 January 2013 14: 44
                    Anton, you’re wrong, you don’t know the story. RUSSIA didn’t receive money for Alaska, so it’s not sold! And as if in free use! And in vain gloating, there nobody laughs at the Russians, but remember with respect. And then you are the same Russian, I am a Great Russian, you are a Little Russian.! We are one people! Only from different places. And Ukraine from the word at the edge is all!
                    1. anton107798
                      +4
                      30 January 2013 19: 39
                      Russians in the Belgorod region, and I live in Kharkov, I'm Ukrainian, and I didn’t give anyone the right to call me otherwise. And the fact that you are a great Russian makes me very happy, I just felt how great you are above us, Ukrainians
              2. xan
                +2
                29 January 2013 11: 43
                Crimea is closer, first Crimea, but you yourself will give it
              3. +2
                29 January 2013 12: 45
                Is Alaska also native Russian land?
                Forward and with the song ... select))))))

                Why? Actually, if you didn’t know in the US Parliament, you discussed the possibility of selling Alaska back to us hi
          2. Mik rybalko
            0
            29 January 2013 11: 40
            The health resort has a climate, a good training ground can be used instead of Novaya Zemlya to organize a new one, then radiation would have a beneficial effect on UNA-UNSO and other Bendera ...
            As a matter of fact, Crimea is not an unsinkable aircraft carrier to deter in the region the puppet forces of NATO countries
          3. xan
            -7
            29 January 2013 11: 42
            Quote: Skavron
            Yes? Why do you need Crimea?
            Only essentially ...

            you definitely don’t need it, you’re invaders there
            Why ukram Crimea?
            Only essentially ...
            1. Skavron
              +3
              29 January 2013 11: 59
              ukram? no .. I don’t know such ...
              1. xan
                -1
                29 January 2013 12: 18
                Quote: Skavron
                ukram? no .. I don’t know anyone ..

                I thought I communicate with a brow with sufficient IQ
                and you are just an ass-fool
                1. Skavron
                  -1
                  29 January 2013 13: 07
                  This is the true face of Russian nationalism.
                  Rudeness in the first place ... I won’t be amazed if you are a skinhead and a swastika on your knee is knocked out ...
                  about your IQ level already says how you communicate ...
                  generally come on, bye !!!
                  1. +4
                    29 January 2013 14: 11
                    Quote: Skavron
                    Rudeness in the first place.

                    Ham got a warning, calm down.
                    1. Skavron
                      -1
                      29 January 2013 14: 20
                      ATP Admins for the blacklist)))
                      I won’t see Han anymore drinks
          4. +7
            29 January 2013 12: 44
            Yes? Why do you need Crimea?
            Only essentially ...

            We will join you in parts wink you don’t want at all hi
          5. +3
            29 January 2013 18: 50
            Skavron,Yes? Why do you need Crimea? belay - AND YOU??? wink Turks Ali Tatars give ???
          6. BYRY
            -2
            29 January 2013 22: 48
            But there was a schob.
            If you have to pay this way.
        2. +1
          29 January 2013 12: 17
          Quote: Mik Rybalko
          They owe Russia so much that the whole Crimea will soon be returned for debts ..

          It’s interesting, but what did Russia get for the debts from the brothers-Koreans? After all, there you can buy the whole amount, the whole of Korea, North, and South. And five pieces will fit in the territory of Crimea.
          1. +1
            29 January 2013 12: 25
            Quote: revnagan
            It’s interesting, but what did Russia get for the debts from the brothers-Koreans? After all, there you can buy the whole amount, the whole of Korea, North, and South. And five pieces will fit in the territory of Crimea.

            You answer for yourself !!! What are you like in Kindergarten !!!! Won Korea, won Vietnam. In this matter, we consider the debt of Ukraine and the impudence of relations when it comes to basing the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol. He doesn’t want a good one, okay, let's take the whole Crimea.
            1. Skavron
              -2
              29 January 2013 13: 08
              Quote: PROXOR
              take the whole Crimea.

              You will break the fence
              1. +1
                29 January 2013 13: 11
                Quote: Skavron
                You will break the fence

                It would be someone to break. Give it yourself later, and even pay extra.
                1. +5
                  29 January 2013 17: 33
                  In the Russian state of Ukraine, Russian people live in the Russian Crimea, from whom is this collector about to collect?
                  1. SASCHAmIXEEW
                    0
                    30 January 2013 14: 55
                    Golden words, simply in power in Ukraine, however, as in RUSSIA, it’s not Russian people, and I think I won’t have to take it away, when we unite, the question will disappear! And the fact that we unite, for example, I have no doubt! Hurry, these ghouls are gone!
            2. +2
              29 January 2013 17: 01
              Quote: PROXOR
              You answer for yourself !!! What are you like in Kindergarten !!!! Won Korea, won Vietnam. In this matter, we consider the debt of Ukraine and the impudence of relations when it comes to basing the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol. He doesn’t want a good one, okay, let's take the whole Crimea.

              Dear, you just "hatched" on this site, and you are already trying to be rude. I have nothing against Russia, I myself am Russian by nationality, and have always stood for friendly relations between Ukraine and Russia. But your statements and individuals like you can only sow enmity between peoples, and serve into the hands of the Nazis, helping to rally Ukrainians around their crazy ideas.
              Quote: PROXOR
              In this matter, we consider the debt of Ukraine

              Have you heard such a word "precedent" or explain what it means?
          2. Mik rybalko
            +9
            29 January 2013 13: 57
            KOREA is an ally of the Russian Federation, which at least does not engage in petty theft and constant slander against its benefactor ..
            And the Ukrainian public is engaged in spitting towards Moscow and stupid bows to the West ..
            And okay, the United States or someone worthy. A gang of vicious and limited Bendera worships some sort of world order poland, Romania.
            And what a pleasant ally, GEORGIA, for Ukrainian participation in the hostilities on the side of the Georgians, it would be necessary to increase the price of gas at all by 500%
            1. +5
              29 January 2013 16: 20
              They still need to recall the Ukrainian mercenaries on the side of the Chukhons in the Caucasus.
              1. +1
                29 January 2013 20: 29
                Again, the mercenary has no nationality
                http://www.1tv.ru/news/crime/135616
              2. Alexander 1958
                +5
                29 January 2013 22: 25
                Of course, you need to remember about mercenaries, both about strangers and about your own ... you also really need to remember about the "sold" columns, plans issued to the enemy, abandoned paratroopers and border guards .. Basayev, who drove several hundred kilometers along the roads, is also evil x. . are we to blame?
                1. +2
                  30 January 2013 00: 09
                  Quote: Alexander 1958
                  It is also very necessary to remember about the "sold" columns, the plans issued to the enemy, the abandoned paratroopers and border guards .., Basayev, who drove several hundred kilometers along the roads, is this also evil h..ly to blame?

                  You see, they won't put a plus sign on the site for that. But he sprinkled it: "Ho ... you fought for the chen and are stealing gas", and you see, in a couple of weeks at such a pace, General ...
                  1. xan
                    -1
                    30 January 2013 02: 10
                    revnagan,
                    we deal with our problems ourselves, unlike you
                    there is a jamb for you relating to us - answer
                    and with our stocks regarding us we somehow ourselves
                    I get the impression that our Ukrainian opponents are, to put it mildly, not adults
                2. SASCHAmIXEEW
                  0
                  30 January 2013 15: 15
                  Are you being blamed for all this? These nonhumans, traitors, are despised at all times and among all peoples!
            2. +2
              29 January 2013 20: 20
              Quote: Mik Rybalko
              And what a pleasant ally, GEORGIA, for Ukrainian participation in the hostilities on the side of the Georgians, it would be necessary to increase the price of gas at all by 500%


              Of course, I am also somewhat offended by the fact that Ukraine is selling weapons to Georgia, but firstly, I do not see anything illegal in this particular case (from the point of view of international law). Secondly, Ukraine itself as a country suffered from this, having lost part of its air defense due to the moronicism of the leadership of its country, who, according to rumors, removed the TOP complexes from combat duty and sold them for a penny to the Georgians. Third, what does "Ukrainian participation" mean? If you're talking about mercenaries, they have no nationality. I suspect that there were people on the side of the Georgians with our passport.
            3. 0
              30 January 2013 02: 15
              What kind of Korea? North or South? Rather, the late Kim Jong Il
              should owe money than Lee Myung-bak. Our price is the Trans-Korean highway.
            4. SASCHAmIXEEW
              +1
              30 January 2013 15: 07
              Remember the proverb, who guards something and has it, so here you have it, that we have power thieves who took power in troubled times, but soon it will end, patience is at its limit!
    2. +4
      29 January 2013 11: 31
      Quote: Crest-MSC
      Total: 24,5 - 7 - 6 - 7 = 4,5 (adjusted for information.)

      And where is the country's total debt?
      1. +5
        29 January 2013 12: 10
        If you also insert the country's total debt into these calculations, the finances of Ukraine are far along the abscissa axis, and with very big minuses lol
        1. +1
          29 January 2013 13: 02
          Quote: Andrey57
          If you also insert the country's total debt into these calculations, the finances of Ukraine are far along the abscissa axis,



          The mission of the International Monetary Fund will visit Ukraine from January 29 to February 12 to start negotiations on a new loan agreement
          “One way or another, Ukraine has nowhere to go, (we must) get this loan. Therefore, Ukraine will pretend that it agrees with the requirements of the IMF, ”Matvienko said in a comment to RIA Novosti.

          Director of the Ukrainian branch of the Institute of the CIS countries, Vladimir Kornilov, believes that the International Monetary Fund can go to allocate a loan tranche to Ukraine, as it is interested in Kiev repaying the debt to the fund itself.

          “The IMF itself is interested in Ukraine paying off its debts this year. And I do not exclude the possibility that the IMF will go to allocate the tranche, but only so that Kiev will pay the IMF itself so as not to restructure the debt, ”said Kornilov.
    3. +3
      29 January 2013 12: 09
      They also forgot to add a few million from Yulia, which she "forgot" to give to the Russian Defense Ministry. there you have one general who served time for this business, but they cannot claim Yulia in any way, (they are sick) she also hung this debt of the EESU on the state! am
    4. DmitriRazumov
      0
      29 January 2013 13: 45
      This is exactly what the West needs. Greece is bankrupt, Spain is almost bankrupt. Soon, Ukraine will go bankrupt and will, like the Greeks during the crisis, buy hundreds of American tanks and German infantry fighting vehicles for the development of the overlords economy.
      1. +2
        29 January 2013 17: 06
        Quote: DmitriRazumov
        Soon, Ukraine will go bankrupt and will, like the Greeks during the crisis, buy hundreds of American tanks and German infantry fighting vehicles for the development of the overlords economy.

        But I don’t understand who benefits from making Ukraine bankrupt, so that later, to pay off the debt, to deploy a missile defense system near Bryansk. Maybe someone is so cunning that he has already outwitted himself?
        1. DmitriRazumov
          +2
          29 January 2013 22: 49
          Quote: revnagan
          But I don’t understand who benefits from making Ukraine bankrupt, so that later, to pay off the debt, to deploy a missile defense system near Bryansk. Maybe someone is so cunning that he has already outwitted himself?

          Ukraine does not want to conclude agreements with the Russian Federation on any fundamental issue, not only on the economy (CU), but also on security issues. He is constantly blackmailing Russia with the possibility of his entry into NATO. Therefore, give a discount on gas, do not give it anyway you may face a real danger of the appearance of a foreign military machine on the borders of Russia. The logic here is transparent ...
          1. Marek Rozny
            +4
            30 January 2013 03: 34
            The Ukrainian government does not want to conclude principal agreements with Russia, because the Kremlin behaves in these relations from a position of swaggering power. This may not be visible to the Russians, but from the outside it can be seen in every action of the Russian Federation in relation to this country.
            For Ukraine to go willingly to contact as a partner, you need to at least see in it ... an interlocutor. And when Russia imagines itself as a master after a hangover surrounded by serfs, Kiev will naturally prefer in this case to communicate with Tbilisi, Brussels or Astana, because any agreement with Moscow will be interpreted by the Ukrainian part of the population as "caved in under Moscow." Why should the top politicians of Ukraine risk the opinion of the electorate? It's one thing to pursue a stupid internal policy, people go for it. And another thing is to conclude an agreement with a neighbor who considers you a "misunderstanding" or, at best, a "stupid little brother" - any normal patriot of his country will knock out such a "soft" president in the next elections.
            When the Kremlin changes its rhetoric regarding Kiev, when the Russians stop throwing poop on the Internet to the Ukrainian people and their authorities, then Ukraine will be the first to offer integration relations with us. Let the Ukrainians feel that they are not vassals, but partners whose opinion is taken into account and respected - and the very next day Kiev will sign the entire package of documents for joining the EurAsEC and the CU.
            1. DmitriRazumov
              0
              30 January 2013 12: 29
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              When the Kremlin changes its rhetoric regarding Kiev, when the Russians stop throwing poop on the Internet to the Ukrainian people and their authorities, then Ukraine will be the first to offer integration relations with us.

              I would like more logic, not emotions. I do not think that at the state level decisions are made on the basis of comments on the internet and that official statements of political figures of the Russian Federation can be interpreted in this way ...
              1. Marek Rozny
                +2
                30 January 2013 13: 48
                Dmitry, they read the Internet, they also read it, since they monitor the reaction of the population to certain events. In Kazakhstan, all ministers, not to mention minor bosses, sit on tweeters, blogs and other social networks. Moreover, they were obliged to do this, and if they do not shine on "these Internet", they get it in the neck from the president)))
                Of course, the opinion of users is not the last reason for making any decisions, but nevertheless, a politician can determine for himself the level of approval or disapproval of his actions. And this is important for a politician who is elected in elections. If he doesn’t personally read, then assistants or special organizations do it for him, which give him concentrated information about various moods of the population (electorate).
                2) How the Foreign Ministries of Ukraine and Russia swear at each other - a parable. Even this year, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry again stated offensive words to Russian diplomats (gas picket). For me, the Russians said everything correctly, but the tone and expression are absolutely not diplomatic. I speak like a former MID-sheep. The Russian side simply cannot step over itself and learn how to select expressions for some neighbors. Here the slightest shadow of veiled neglect and insult cannot be allowed. This is diplomacy. And not with a political enemy, but with a country with which they seem to want to be friends. Any little thing here is considered under a magnifying glass.
                1. DmitriRazumov
                  +1
                  30 January 2013 14: 07
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  How the Foreign Ministries of Ukraine and Russia are cursing each other is a parable. Even this year, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry again stated offensive words to Russian diplomats (gas picket). For me, the Russians said everything correctly, but the tone and expression are absolutely not diplomatic. I speak like a former MID-sheep. The Russian side simply cannot step over itself and learn how to select expressions for some neighbors.

                  It would be very interesting to learn from you, Marek, as a professional diplomat, an assessment of the statements of some official Ukrainian politicians from the Svoboda party, for example, and others, regarding Russia and Russian citizens. they do not do it on the internet.
                  Besides, this is an obsession. especially prevailed with the orange, that the Russians were to blame for the Holodomor. As if this was not the case in other territories (Russia, Kazakhstan, etc.). These are constant accusations at the official political level that Russia owes something to Ukraine for supposedly centuries of "oppression and slavery", while Ukraine itself arose only thanks to Russia, the USSR and grew by its territories.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    30 January 2013 19: 28
                    Well, I would not call myself a professional diplomat))) Within the walls of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Committee on CIS Affairs) I spent only a year of paperwork, after which I was transferred to international affairs in another state body. But a year at the Foreign Ministry gave me a lot in understanding various nuances. There were also such situations, a request comes from one of the CIS countries, I ask the management for advice regarding the answer. The management replies bluntly: "send them nayuh. But so that they also thank you." I had to practice in the diplomatic language)))
                    In general, the Ukrainian authorities refrain from throwing poop, they stupidly ignore some important initiatives for us, and the fact that some of their politicians allow themselves to be rude should not be mistaken for the "voice of the Ukrainian government" or "the voice of the people." Russia has enough of its own Zhirinovski-Makashov-Belovs, but we do not take their opinion as the official point of view of the Kremlin.
                    Concerning the Holodomor. Yes, I, as a Kazakh, also do not understand the hysteria of Ukraine on this topic. In Kazakhstan, in 1932-1933, the population decreased by 2 times. This fact needs to be known and remembered, but making a bogey out of it is insulting to your own nation. Lessons must be learned and continued to live on, and not get stuck in the past. To smooth this issue, Russia must take a step - for example, organize a visit by top officials of the state on the anniversary of the Holodomor and establish a thread, say, a monument to the victims. Moreover, the same monument to be installed in the Volga region and in the KZ. Thus, Russia recognizes the very fact of the tragedy, respects the memory of the dead and living. But at the same time, Russia should not categorically take responsibility for this event, writing off everything on the excesses of the then Soviet regime (and at the same time, then Russia should not dilute the demagogy that Russia gave Crimea and built "Disneylands" to everyone - otherwise it really is an ambiguous situation turns out, they say, repression and hunger - from the "evil Bolsheviks", and all the nishtyaks - from the "Russian people"). What's wrong with the fact that the Russian leadership will show respect for the memory of the millions of killed Ukrainians, Russians, Kazakhs? This will not belittle Russia or make it “guilty,” but it will calm a sufficient number of citizens of neighboring countries who are offended that Russia stupidly prefers to forget the black pages of our common history.
                    Russia's policy should be clear:
                    "Yes, there was the Holodomor. Yes, this is the tragedy of our peoples. Yes, this should not happen again. Yes, we share the grief of our neighbors. And now, having remembered them, as the Orthodox should do, let's get down to business. Please look at the paper on the creation Grain Pool Russia-Kazakhstan-Ukraine ... "
                    I'm exaggerating, but Russia's policy towards Ukraine should be like this. After such a step, talk about an "unjust and insolent" Russia will subside. A great country should not only show its superiority, but also be able to bear responsibility and empathize with its neighbors. And if not, then this is not a great power, but so ... a country of regional importance, which has no right to impose its opinion.
                    And it’s a completely disastrous thing to prove to each other who saved whom, who created whom, who gave what to whom. It is impossible to count how much the Ukrainian economy gave the Soviet Union in the pre-war years in the first two five-year periods.
                    1. DmitriRazumov
                      0
                      31 January 2013 20: 43
                      Thanks for the answer, Marek.
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      The management replies bluntly: "send them nayuh. But so that they also thank you." I had to practice in the diplomatic language)))

                      As you rightly noted, technical work (skirmishing clerks, and even more controversy on the Internet) is not decisive for interstate communication, although it can be taken into account at certain stages ... For example, sometimes top executives intentionally put the rigidity on the bottom in order to gain understanding that the position cannot be adjusted, however, at official events everything remains within the framework of acceptable language and respect for each other.
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      Russia has enough of its Zhirinovsky-Makashov-whites, but we do not accept their opinion as the Kremlin’s official point of view.

                      Zhirinovsky does not have and never had his own political person, and he is referred to the category of “parliamentary clowns”. This is well known to all. The rest of the persons named by you are not a political force, because have no mandates, and will not have. Those. all these “guys” are essentially babble in comparison with Tyagnibok, his party and those whom he represents (the 3rd largest party in the Rada). In this regard, I ask you to pay attention to the following quote from our colleague from Ukraine with you:
                      Quote: Egoza
                      We still do not have a law banning fascist symbols! Western Ukraine immediately raises the question of the prohibition of communist symbolism. Moreover, Freedom sued that the Communist Party faction should not exist in parliament, as they have no majority! Well, in addition ...
                      Read two passages! I bring with abbreviations, who are interested, follow the links.
                      VO Liberty called on Ukrainians to prepare for an armed uprising.
                      http://polemika.com.ua/article-109197.html#title
                      The widely announced Freedom march took place in Kiev, timed to coincide with the day of the Battle of Kruty. “At seven in the evening about 500 supporters of the VO Svoboda gathered on Independence Square. The flags of Ukraine, the UPA and Svoboda are flying above them.
                      The people are in an unorganized crowd, piled in piles. Some have masks on their faces. Several adult men sing along to the guitar, dancing:
                      "The river Tisza, in the new Moscow shelter,
                      if we beat me, we will beat the knowledge. "
                      The speakers talked more not about the battle of Kruty, but about the fact that Svoboda is the best political force that will protect the national interests of every Ukrainian. What will happen to other nations, did not specify. on the other hand, the speakers favored Averky Goncharenko, the commander of the Heroes of Krut, who, according to many historians, had a drinking bout while those same heroes were dying, and fled the battlefield when he saw a threat to his life. Later, during the Second World War, he fought on the side of Hitler in the ranks of the SS "Galicia" ...
                      Most of the attention was paid to the future seizure of power by force, which, according to Svoboda, will take place in a foggy "nezabar":
                      1. DmitriRazumov
                        0
                        31 January 2013 20: 45
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Lessons must be learned and continued to live on, not stuck in the past. To smooth out this issue, Russia must take a step — for example, organize a visit by top government officials on the anniversary of the Holodomor and establish a thread, say, a monument to the victims.


                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Russia should not spread demagoguery about the fact that Russia gave Crimea and built "Disneylands" to everyone - otherwise, a really ambiguous situation turns out, they say, repression and hunger - from "evil Bolsheviks", and all the nishtyaks - from the "Russian people").


                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        I'm exaggerating, but Russia's policy towards Ukraine should be like this. After such a step, talk about an "unjust and insolent" Russia will subside. A great country should not only show its superiority, but also be able to bear responsibility and empathize with its neighbors. And if not, then this is not a great power, but so ... a country of regional importance, which has no right to impose its opinion.


                        You do not find that Russia again owed heavily to someone, essentially providing its CIS counterparts with state independence, territory, and a certain not weak level of development of the production base.

                        Worshiping the victims of the famine that erupted in the USSR in the 20s and 30s is good, I don’t think that specialists in our Foreign Ministry are worse than in Kazakh. But some significant features of this process in Ukraine should be taken into account. By the political will of the orange and outspoken national fascists, all these monuments to the Holodomor were made with a fair amount of visual agitation to glorify pro-fascist and Nazi organizations (OUN-UPA) and their leaders, for example, Shukhevych. He, with the rank of Hauptman of the German division of Brandenburg 800 and further to the SS after the liquidation of Abwehr, actively participated in mass punitive actions in the occupied territory of the USSR and in particular in Ukraine. This contradicts the obligations of the Russian Federation, as the heir to the USSR, according to the results of the Nuremberg Tribunal, and indeed common sense.


                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        And it’s a completely disastrous thing to prove to each other who saved whom, who created whom, who gave what to whom. It is impossible to count how much the Ukrainian economy gave the Soviet Union in the pre-war years in the first two five-year periods.

                        History should not be forgotten. The economy of the USSR was not created by individual republics. and they were not states, but the Soviet people. In the Soviet Union, it was not customary to talk about nationality. For example, I found out that my mother is Ukrainian by accident, by opening a birth certificate. Many nationalities. now arose on the territory of the former USSR and RI generally arose only at the whim of the Soviet government. No one could have imagined that in 1991 the EBN would decide to divide the country along those administrative, often conditional, borders ...
                        I personally still do not understand why the homeland of my ancestors, the city of Petropavlovsk, ended up in the territory of another state.
                        This is a feature and one of the problems of state development of most CIS countries. And do not forget it. Therefore, integration processes are good for all of us. This is the solution to the sales problem for the Ukrainian defense industry and the problem of loading, developing and supporting the Baikonur Cosmodrome, and much more.
    5. -4
      29 January 2013 17: 16
      Quote: Crest-MSC
      even to the peak of the Russian Federation, Ukraine will be difficult for Europeans, because If a legal precedent is created, then most likely Ukraine will be forced to pay it. those. - 7 billion. $

      Pravte me but Gazprom has already lost a similar lawsuit in the Czech Republic, when the incident was created.

      She also wants to recall the Kharkov agreement where there was not only a discount on gas, but also the non-presentation of penalty sanctions.

      so an adequate response would be to bill the Russian Federation at 8 mil. bucks for basing the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol.
  7. djon3volta
    +4
    29 January 2013 09: 54
    The behavior of the Ukrainian politicians strongly resembles the famous Sharikov's "RISE IN RESPONSE, AND SHISH TO Fight !!!"
  8. +3
    29 January 2013 09: 55
    It’s only a pity for the common people who suffer because of the greed of these goats that they cannot agree ...
  9. sxn278619
    +1
    29 January 2013 10: 29
    GTS consists of 2 parts - transit and end consumers.
    It is necessary to buy GTS of final consumers, it is there that superprofits are formed. As in Belarus, there the whole GTS belongs to Gazprom.
    Buying half of the transit part ALREADY makes no sense.
    As for the actions of the Ukrainian authorities, they act completely rightly, trying to get the maximum benefits for themselves. It is naive to wait for another.
    1. +3
      29 January 2013 12: 17
      So they won’t get anything at all - they’ve already begun to build the South Stream, they will build it in a couple of years, or even faster, they will modernize the Belarusian GTS to increase transit by 30%, they will also expand the Nord Stream, the pricing agreement for Ukraine is valid until 2019. As soon as the South Stream earns two strands, and the North - four, the Ukrainian GTS will not be very interesting even in the form of scrap metal, since it will also have to be excavated, and the restoration of the excavated lands will be carried out. hi
    2. wax
      0
      29 January 2013 17: 38
      they act completely right, trying to get the maximum benefits for themselves
      .
      Naturally. It is only necessary to attend to the shovel.
  10. Akim
    +2
    29 January 2013 10: 36
    Explain to me, without interfering with the policy - purely economically. How does Ukraine buy RUSSIAN gas in Germany, drive it to itself and still get cheaper than direct deliveries?
    1. ded_73
      +2
      29 January 2013 10: 41
      Well, you have a question ... Now the politicians will answer you. Slogans.
      1. +4
        29 January 2013 10: 46
        Well, how. Germany buys a normal amount of gas and pays normul, hence the discounts. But they don’t want to pay in Yandia, they steal gas, what discounts can be talked about. Because Germany can afford to sell part of the excess gas am.
        1. Akim
          +1
          29 January 2013 11: 03
          Quote: PROXOR
          But they don’t want to pay in Yandia, they steal gas,

          I asked not to interfere with politics.
          1. +4
            29 January 2013 12: 22
            The backfill question - and how much gas does Germany receive from Germany as a percentage? You ask not to interfere with politics, but Ukraine is sold gas from Germany solely for political reasons, so that in no case the most nightmare of Mr. Bzheninsky comes true, who believes that in no case should integration of Ukraine and Russia be allowed even at the minimum economic level , is it really not visible in Ukraine?
          2. stroporez
            0
            4 February 2013 14: 38
            what kind of policy !! ??? ----- golimy Bosota. I don’t know how with the entry into the European Union, but Ukraine has already become a European barefoot ..................... .............
        2. -1
          29 January 2013 12: 34
          Quote: PROXOR
          But they don’t want to pay in Yandia, they steal gas,

          Oh, thanks for reminding me that I’ll go and get a couple of bags, but I’ll hide it in a closet, maybe it’ll be enough until spring ...
    2. +4
      29 January 2013 10: 57
      Quote: Akim
      How does Ukraine buy RUSSIAN gas in Germany, drive it to itself and still get cheaper than direct deliveries?

      It’s just that there are a lot of joint projects with Germany and that’s why gas is cheaper for them, but how many projects didn’t offer Ukraine, they are afraid to lose all independence. Hence the price hi
      1. -3
        29 January 2013 11: 25
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        It’s just that there are a lot of joint projects with Germany and that’s why gas is cheaper for them, but how many projects didn’t offer Ukraine, they are afraid to lose all independence. Hence the price
        And what are a bunch of projects with Germany in aircraft manufacturing, rocket science, and is the Russian fleet somewhere in Hamburg or Kiel, or can Russian and German soldiers put up a red banner on the dome of the Capitol? Ukraine buys gas from Gazprom more than Germany, and could buy even more, but it is more profitable for some reason to buy Russian gas from German-Hfashist comrades. feel
        1. - = ALEX = -
          0
          29 January 2013 11: 29
          Ukraine in Germany does not buy Russian gas she buys Norwegian and spot (this is mainly Algeria, Qatar). The share of Russian gas in the EU market is less than 30%.
          1. Akim
            +1
            29 January 2013 11: 37
            Quote: - = ALEX = -
            she buys norwegian

            Norwegian gas is very expensive - buying it is not profitable for Germany itself. If this is a mixture, then it can and profitably sell.
        2. +3
          29 January 2013 11: 36
          Quote: Aeneas
          And what a bunch of projects with Germany in aircraft manufacturing, rocket science,

          There are other projects besides aviation and rocket science.
          Quote: Aeneas
          Is the Russian fleet somewhere in Hamburg or Kiel?

          Our fleet is in the Crimea, which we pay according to the agreement on time and without tears about the sky-high price of 4 billion dollars hi
          Quote: Aeneas
          Russian and German soldiers planted a red banner on the dome of the Capitol?

          This is what?
          Quote: Aeneas
          e, but for some reason it’s more profitable to buy Russian gas from German comrades

          That you ask your government, why? Why there are no joint gas projects with Russia and all that spirit hi
        3. +5
          29 January 2013 12: 26
          Well, yes, of course, the fleet was brought out of Germany in vain, there would have been no one to harm him and put sticks in the wheels for each sneeze. racking their brains over how else to hurt her the Russian Black Sea Fleet lol
        4. DmitriRazumov
          +1
          29 January 2013 22: 53
          Quote: Aeneas
          And what are a bunch of projects with Germany in aircraft manufacturing, rocket science, and is the Russian fleet somewhere in Hamburg or Kiel, or can Russian and German soldiers put up a red banner on the dome of the Capitol? Ukraine buys gas from Gazprom more than Germany, and could buy even more, but it is more profitable for some reason to buy Russian gas from German-Hfashist comrades.

          Russian trade with Germany in 2012 was $ 100 billion.
          The trade turnover of the Russian Federation with Ukraine in 2012 was less than $ 50 billion.
    3. +8
      29 January 2013 11: 01
      Quote: Akim
      Explain to me, without interfering with the policy - purely economically. How does Ukraine buy RUSSIAN gas in Germany, drive it to itself and still get cheaper than direct deliveries?

      It is difficult to answer your unfounded question. Specify specifically how much cheaper and be sure to give a link to a reliable source. And more importantly, where is the gas purchased? On the border with Poland, or with Germany Poland? Does the price include transit in Poland?
      And if, this is true, then without conditionally Ukraine needs ALL buy gas from Germany, Russia, it will survive. And even to go to Russia for a discount then is not worth it. Just ALL gas to buy in Germany. Why, these self-torture? Just masochism, some kind.
      The logic is iron. hi
      1. Akim
        -3
        29 January 2013 11: 09
        Quote: ATATA
        Russia is not even worth going for a discount then.

        One insult ... but shouldn't we insult us? In order not to give printed materials (I don’t believe the Internet), here is an interview from Boyko in the video outlined. And there you will not erase words from a song ...
        1. +3
          29 January 2013 16: 19
          Quote: Akim
          One insult ... but shouldn't we insult us?

          And you are not offended that you are being held for fools? You are just like biomass, because your brains are somehow turned off. Comrade Kisilev used to hypnotize us in Russia, now he has moved to you. In Russia, the majority of the population was vaccinated against such 3,14 diseases in the 90s and now there is immunity, but for some reason you do not develop immunity for such. I do not know why.
          With regards to Boyko, well, I just dripped on the Internet about him ... I just can’t understand why you, as a competent source, bring him ... But I realized that your vaccination on lies does not work.
          Well and more. There was such a state as the Khazar Kaganate, here Ukraine is the new Kaganate, only Ukrainian. And fate will be the same. Believe it or not. Of course you feel sorry and insulted that they are fooling so, well, what to do fools beat.
          This I wrote by the way looking at Boyko.
          1. Akim
            -1
            29 January 2013 16: 29
            Quote: ATATA
            You bring him as a competent source

            Because he spoke as Minister of Energy. And about the lies. Politicians lie, only a person wants to be deceived.
            1. +2
              29 January 2013 16: 38
              Quote: Akim
              Because he spoke in the name of the Minister of Energy. And about the lies. Politicians lie, only a person wants to be deceived.

              Well what can I tell you so as not to offend ...
              You don’t say it for everyone, someone wants to be deceived, but it is disgusting to someone. Do you like it, well, to your health! Buy gas in Germany, get shale.
              To your health! hi
              1. Akim
                -2
                29 January 2013 16: 44
                ATATA,
                OK, a bit of politics. And who then just trust?
                1. +7
                  29 January 2013 17: 07
                  Quote: Akim
                  And who then just trust?

                  laughing
                  You know the quote from Mueller from 17 moments of spring:
                  "In our time, no one can be trusted, no one, but I can."

                  laughing
                  But this is a joke.
                  May try to trust the voice MIND? After all, everyone has it!
                  To think over what they say, to compare it yourself, to draw conclusions of your own, and not stupidly, like popcorn and beer to swallow the sweetness that is poured into your ears.
                  I want to write a lot, but the format of comments is not the same.
                  Just say wake up soon!
                  The sooner it ends, this crap booze on the wreck of our YOU great power, the shorter and easier it will be a hangover.
                  Wake up! hi
                  1. Akim
                    +1
                    29 January 2013 17: 17
                    Quote: ATATA
                    Wake up

                    From some liars to surrender into the hands of others .. That you have capitalism, that we have.
                    1. +6
                      29 January 2013 17: 34
                      Quote: Akim
                      From some liars to surrender to others ..

                      Separate flies from cutlets. Rulers come and go.
                      Remember GLORY TO OUR GENERAL ancestors!
                      For a thousand years they have been WINNERS of their genes at US WITH YOU in BLOOD!
                      Yes, our country is still broken! Vile, deceit, not in fair fight.
                      But we are not Czechs and Poles, such nations in the world can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Peoples like ours make the history of mankind and never give up!
                      Now, this is the truth to be believed. IMHO
          2. +4
            30 January 2013 00: 06
            Quote: ATATA
            Comrade Kisilev used to hypnotize us in Russia, now he has moved to you

            Kiseleva was already turned, and, apparently, did not justify trust
            1. Akim
              +1
              30 January 2013 17: 48
              Quote: Egoza
              Kiseleva was already turned, and, apparently, did not justify trust


              He has no taste. Like a weather vane bent. That called Timokha - polit. prisoner, then drove to the Soviet veterans of the Second World War. The contract is over and adieu! He was lucky that he was not pointed out "Fas" !.
      2. +4
        29 January 2013 13: 41
        Quote: ATATA
        Just ALL gas to buy in Germany

        Well, for this you will have to complete and increase the server stream, it will look cool from the side laughing
    4. xan
      0
      29 January 2013 11: 04
      where does infa come from? from Ukrainian sources?
      why Germany sell gas cheaper than Russia?
      If gas is cheaper there, then buy, there are no complaints, this is the market, this is an adult way.
      Your eagles need to go to Berlin to beg, not to Moscow
      1. Akim
        +6
        29 January 2013 11: 14
        Quote: xan
        where does infa come from?

        And I can swear. In my opinion, I personally did nothing to you and hide my hatred of the people of Ukraine in a nightstand during a conversation.
        1. xan
          -4
          29 January 2013 12: 11
          Quote: Akim
          And I can swear. In my opinion, I personally did nothing to you and hide my hatred of the people of Ukraine in a nightstand during a conversation.

          I can do a lot too
          But essentially there will be something to say?
          1. Akim
            -2
            29 January 2013 12: 23
            Quote: xan
            But essentially there will be something to say?

            I asked a question and wanted to get an answer to the question, but I have to answer it myself. I found a small piece of gear here ...
            1. xan
              0
              29 January 2013 17: 16
              yes guys, you seem to have heard about shale gas for the first time from shell
              would ask the Poles
              1. Akim
                +1
                29 January 2013 17: 55
                Quote: xan
                would ask the Poles

                I specifically asked the Poles a question on their forum. They are drilling there. There are already 25 wells. But they have expensive gas production in their territory of 335 $ per 1000 cubic meters. While it is possible to buy cheaper Russian gas, mass production will not begin.
        2. gladiatorakz
          -1
          29 January 2013 12: 27
          Akim Do not get excited about him. There are professional provocateurs. Remote daredevils. laughing
          1. Akim
            -3
            29 January 2013 13: 53
            And here is another video. Not only about gas, but in general. Including about boobs ...
          2. xan
            +1
            29 January 2013 17: 18
            Quote: gladiatorakz
            Akim Do not get excited about him. There are professional provocateurs. Remote daredevils.

            but there are brave men who seem to be ambush around
    5. Misantrop
      +7
      29 January 2013 11: 14
      Quote: Akim
      purely economic

      Oddly enough, the explanation is quite simple. It's all about the quality of this gas (its purity and calorific value). For direct deliveries, Ukraine receives not Russian, but Turkmen gas (which is cheaper). What they bought, they get it. And Germany - from Russian deposits. The same Ukraine also sells gas produced on the Black Sea shelf at scrap prices. And they take it with pleasure. Because it is ANOTHER gas. Last summer, he himself had the opportunity to make sure. In the Black Sea and Mezhvodnoye (where it is extracted), local gas is flowing in the pipes. The same kettle on the same gas stove there boils three times faster than in Simferopol. Those. for boiler rooms, workshops, etc. several times less gas cubic capacity than when using Turkmen. Have you heard about different brands of oil traded on the world market? That's the same story with gas
      1. Akim
        +1
        29 January 2013 11: 22
        Quote: Misantrop
        For direct deliveries, Ukraine receives not Russian, but Turkmen gas

        It turns out that we buy gas resold by Russia. In the old days - it was called "baryzhnetsvo". By the way, Germany is Ukraine under the same name.
        (huckster) sells it to Ukraine.
        PS Note, this is all economics, I do not interfere with politics
        1. Misantrop
          +2
          29 January 2013 11: 37
          What used to be called baryzhestvo is now a business. Russia sells both its gas and Turkmen. Which was ordered, this goes into the pipes
          1. Akim
            0
            29 January 2013 11: 50
            Quote: Misantrop
            Russia sells both its gas and Turkmen.

            When you sell your products - this is one thing. And when you push a second-hand goods - it's different. By the way, Ukraine was also troubled with gas. An aunt, who is also a huckster, is selling Chinese clothes at the bazaar. But she is not a monopolist. I can go to another for a jacket. This is free competition.
            1. Misantrop
              +4
              29 January 2013 12: 06
              Quote: Akim
              When you sell your products - this is one thing. And when you push a second-hand goods - it's different.

              So now it’s precisely the bargain economy across the planet, if approached from this point of view. Prices for the vast majority of goods are determined on exchanges. Find at least one manufacturer there ... Only resellers wink
              1. +3
                29 January 2013 12: 53
                Hucksters are a scourge of the 21 century, unfortunately, now we have few who produce their own, everyone from China is brought and sold once in 5 more sad It was good in the USSR when everything belonged to the state, went to buy bread and your money in your own country in the treasury settled on the social. programs for you, but now it’s settling in someone’s pockets, so the state does not speculate with prices, and hucksters live by that. Gazprom is not an exception, it’s not all money that goes to the treasury, they buy 50 million players, when in fact they trade in what belongs to all the inhabitants of Russia, they get their own money, such things.
                1. Akim
                  +4
                  29 January 2013 13: 01
                  Quote: Joker
                  It was good in the USSR when everything belonged to the state, went to buy bread and your money in your own country in the treasury settled on the social. programs

                  I am now at the Indian forum for the third day (or rather night), I fight with English-speaking sheep on the topic "Capitalism and Socialism". At least they started reading other sources. And then their arguments earlier: the Gulag, the Holodomor and alleged poverty. We didn't know anything else!
              2. Akim
                -3
                29 January 2013 14: 04
                Quote: Misantrop
                Prices for the vast majority of goods are determined on exchanges.

                But not monopolists. Even in ordinary online stores, the price difference in goods is palpable and there is a choice between sellers.
                1. +3
                  29 January 2013 18: 08
                  Sellers are usually guided by the prices of neighbors, so the scatter is not significant. All the same, it was good under socialism, and now everyone wants to deceive you.
                2. Misantrop
                  +2
                  29 January 2013 18: 24
                  Quote: Akim
                  Even in ordinary online stores, the difference in product prices is palpable.

                  An online store in terms of pricing is a happy exception. Due to the fact that the price is determined by only two factors: the purchase price and the greed of the seller. There is no need to pay for all sorts of costs. When buying Dremel 290, I was faced with the fact that the price differed dozens of times from sellers located literally in neighboring rooms wink For example, 290 hryvnias and 1400 hryvnias from sellers from the same city ...
      2. - = ALEX = -
        -8
        29 January 2013 11: 32
        Quote: Misantrop
        Because it is ANOTHER gas.


        laughing laughing laughing

        so many years to live and be so naive .... sympathize ...
        1. Misantrop
          +6
          29 January 2013 11: 34
          - = ALEX = -,
          Come and see for yourself. The burning temperature of the torch differs VERY significantly. I can even select a thermometer and a stopwatch wink
          1. +6
            29 January 2013 12: 00
            It really is. Different gas has different energy efficiency. If equal amounts of propane and methane are pumped into cylinders, the car will leave twice as much on propane than on the same amount of methane.
            Natural gas is generally a mixture of gases, and this mixture is more expensive than methane.
            Again, natural gas goes into chemical production, and methane doesn't. It is not suitable for this. Hence the difference in price. And for some reason people think that gas is gas in Africa. In Africa, of course, it is also gas, but different in composition and price.
            1. +1
              29 January 2013 13: 50
              Quote: tungus
              natural gas goes into chemical production, but methane

              But they didn’t tell you at school that natural gas is fractionally 99% composed of ... methane?
              People confuse the warm with the soft, there are product pipelines through which they drive a mixture of gases for processing, everyone except methane is extracted from the mixture, and then it is driven through pipes to Europe
      3. Mik rybalko
        +3
        29 January 2013 11: 43
        Yes, the calorific value is different .. But there is one feature offshore the Black Sea gas contains hydrogen sulfide, which, when burned, has a high corrosive activity. And very toxic to your health.
      4. -1
        29 January 2013 13: 47
        Quote: Misantrop
        The same kettle on the same gas stove there boils three times faster

        Well this is for such a gas, with a TRIPLE HEAT CAPACITY —not a methane isotope case ?? You can safely apply for the Nobel Prize for the invention of such a combustible, jokes-jokes, but it probably doesn’t depend on gas but on the altitude above sea level — the higher the faster it will boil, though I doubt THREE TIMES laughing
        1. +4
          29 January 2013 14: 03
          Quote: Locksmith
          Well this is for such a gas, with a TRIPLE HEAT CAPACITY —not a methane isotope case?

          If your post was not just irony, then generally there are no isotopes in organic matter. So much for overall development.
        2. Misantrop
          +2
          29 January 2013 18: 29
          Quote: Locksmith
          and from the altitude above sea level

          Is it difficult to google a map of Crimea with a difference in altitude above the sea level in Simferopol and Mezhvodnoye? wink The only difference is that in Mezhvodnoye gas comes from a well that is visible from the beach, and in Simferopol - the one that Ukraine buys. If you banned Google, I’m ready to provide a kettle, water and a stopwatch laughing I can even select a thermometer to measure the boiling temperature wassat
      5. wax
        +1
        29 January 2013 17: 54
        The same kettle on the same gas stove there boils three times faster

        And you, my friend, a scientist. And you did not measure the pressure of the gas in the pipe?
        Maximum calorific value kJ / m3norm
        Natural gas type L 35,200
        Natural gas type H 41,300
        In different directories you can find different data, because The composition of natural gas is different, but the differences fit into 15-20 percent.
        1. Misantrop
          +1
          29 January 2013 18: 33
          Quote: Wax
          gas pressure in the pipe, have you accidentally measured?
          Can the torch height above comfort be considered adequate to the gas pressure in the supply pipe? With the same nozzle size and the same diameter of comfort?
          1. 0
            30 January 2013 15: 01
            You wrote obvious stupidity, yet another kettle and another gas stove were not bought for the experiment.
            1. Akim
              0
              30 January 2013 17: 56
              Quote: Setrac
              yet another kettle and another gas stove were not bought for the experiment.

              But you can take another boiling water. Or for example. I live in a house with an OSMD. It’s cheaper than paying a housing office.
            2. Misantrop
              +1
              30 January 2013 23: 14
              Quote: Setrac
              You wrote obvious stupidity

              Come with your kettle, so as not to buy on the spot, in your opinion, stupidity? And the stove there was exactly the same as at home. Nozzles are not reverted, standard. BUT if at home the regulator is at maximum and until it boils, you have time to smoke a couple of times while waiting, then it’s useless for the guys to smoke (so as not to crush the ashes into the cups). And the regulator at the same time - at half the power. And the water is the same - bottling Andreevskaya (there is such a supplier of drinking water in Crimea). Well, where is the stupidity?
      6. +5
        29 January 2013 20: 03
        Quote: Misantrop
        It's all about the quality of this gas (its purity and calorific value)

        Quite right. And so-called. "Shale" gas in terms of calorific value is about 2-3 times worse than natural (average). Those. the cost of its production (and they are higher than natural gas too. For example, 1 thousand cubic meters of natural Russian gas costs about $ 20, and the American "shale" gas from 100 to 280) must also be multiplied by the corresponding. The fact that in the States it is cheaper is explained by the fact that it is produced in those regions where there are already many ready (equipped) drilling rigs and the costs of exploration and vertical drilling are much lower. This is the specificity of the States. Moreover, the reserves of this "shale" gas are rather modest. even in the States. For example, stocks of the so-called. "associated" gas (from coal and oil production) in Russia is higher than shale reserves in the United States. In addition, the quality (calorific value) "of associated gas is higher than shale gas, and its production is cheaper and environmentally cleaner.
        T.N. the "shale revolution" is a purely American domestic product. Moreover, the product is of very short-term use.
    6. Gagarin
      +4
      29 January 2013 12: 19
      How can politics be separated from the economy? It doesn’t happen! It’s bad to jump off the Russian neck! The EU is waiting for a completely different body.
  11. Markel
    +4
    29 January 2013 10: 53
    I do not understand the position of the historically fraternal people to us (I do not mean Bendera, let them move to the Poles). Given all the external common threats, it is necessary for everyone to unite in a Eurasian and customs union and strengthen their economies and defense capabilities. But it is evident that the Ukrainian elite has its own plans based on obscurity. Well, any choice is a choice. We have DEMOCRACY!)))) It is a pity only ordinary people who tolerate all this. In the future, I am sure the victory will be ours.
    1. SASCHAmIXEEW
      0
      30 January 2013 16: 12
      There is no Ukrainian elite, just like the Russian elite, there is a Zionist! What do you have, what do we have! And don’t powder people’s brains, we have long been, not sovereign countries, but under the hood of the State Department (liquidationists)!
  12. nickname 1 and 2
    -3
    29 January 2013 11: 12
    Ukraine made a strategic mistake! (GDP seems to say so)

    To scoff at the elder brother as it was, will not work anymore!

    We need to sweat very, very hard to come up with some kind of problem for which,
    how you can hold on to the zugunder again and again muttus brother!

    And there are two-thirds of the Russians ?! And who does not allow them to return to their homeland?

    TIME!
    1. xan
      0
      29 January 2013 12: 28
      Quote: nick 1 and 2
      And there are two-thirds of the Russians ?! And who does not allow them to return to their homeland?

      TIME!


      time but only with the ground
    2. Misantrop
      +8
      29 January 2013 19: 53
      Quote: nick 1 and 2
      And there are two-thirds of the Russians ?! And who does not allow them to return to their homeland?

      Personally, my (and my ancestors, at least 10 generations) Homeland - Crimea. What the hell and where? And to whom to leave THIS land? Will it be too bold?
      1. 0
        30 January 2013 15: 04
        I would suggest that all Benderaites return to their historical homeland - Poland.
    3. SASCHAmIXEEW
      +3
      30 January 2013 16: 23
      nick1i2. And you natsik? The eastern and southern regions + Crimea in the USSR were in the RSFSR! And not in Little Russia! Ukraine appeared after 17 years! So they live on their land and only names will return! That's all!
  13. fenix57
    +3
    29 January 2013 11: 12
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    - they are afraid of losing all independence. Hence the price

    But by concluding an agreement with Shell on the development of deposits, they can lose it (independence).
  14. Skavron
    +6
    29 January 2013 11: 14
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but how will joining the CU affect the price of gas?
    Which of the commentators read the provisions of the CU and what does it say about the gas price?

    Of course, if you choose from the EU and the CU, then the CU is definitely more profitable, but! Isn’t it easier for the Ukrainian government to stop bending? Isn't it time to start building a truly workable economy, and not run around with my outstretched hand? With the right approach, you can pay for gas as much as you need and without biased statements can do.
    1. +4
      29 January 2013 11: 48
      Quote: Skavron
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but how will joining the CU affect the price of gas?

      185 dollars 1000 cubic meters, as for Belarus, plus the removal of all customs duties. Essentially one big domestic market.
      1. Skavron
        +1
        29 January 2013 11: 58
        Belarus does not own its gas transportation system, here comes the price. But the question of gas in the provisions of the CU for Ukraine is it raised?
        Have you read them?
        1. +4
          29 January 2013 12: 35
          Quote: Skavron
          But the question of gas in the provisions of the CU for Ukraine is it raised?

          Yes, this was officially announced.
    2. xan
      -4
      29 January 2013 12: 29
      Quote: Skavron
      Of course, if you choose from the EU and the CU, then the CU is definitely more profitable, but! Isn’t it easier for the Ukrainian government to stop bending? Isn't it time to start building a truly workable economy, and not run around with my outstretched hand? With the right approach, you can pay for gas as much as you need and without biased statements can do.


      statement not of a boy, but of a very small boy
      1. -2
        29 January 2013 17: 06
        And they believe that the panel is lighter than the machine.
    3. gladiatorakz
      -1
      29 January 2013 12: 33
      Quote: Skavron
      With the right approach, you can pay for gas as much as you need and without biased statements can do.

      You should gradually switch to your own. Which is done by troch. Import substitution.
      1. SASCHAmIXEEW
        0
        30 January 2013 16: 33
        Read carefully komenty, gas is different from different components and from different fields, that’s why the price is different, but in general, you can disown any contract, I’m not me and not my car .... In my environment, this is called bloshichnost ..
    4. +4
      29 January 2013 12: 37
      How the CU will affect the gas price is clearly seen in the example of Belarus, they receive gas at a price of 160 bucks for the same 1000 m3, in addition, the EU does not expect Ukrainian products at all, but if you remember what European "businessmen" are doing with Ukrainian enterprises after their purchase, it turns out that for the EU it is optimal to have a complete absence of industry in Ukraine and a complete presence of sales markets for its own products on the most favorable terms.
    5. 0
      29 January 2013 17: 40
      Quote: Skavron
      Isn’t it easier for the Ukrainian government to stop bending?

      Well, do not bend under the West.
      1. Skavron
        -2
        29 January 2013 18: 21
        Setrac, I personally, do not need CEP services))
        1. -1
          30 January 2013 15: 05
          The word CEP doesn’t say anything to me, although judging by the intonation, is there nothing good?
          1. Skavron
            +1
            30 January 2013 16: 35
            ))) Cap - captain evidence! A kind of network folklore. There is nothing offensive. I mean, what you said is obvious.
            It's just that our people are used to bending ... but you can’t ...
            1. 0
              30 January 2013 17: 11
              And minus for what?
  15. - = ALEX = -
    -9
    29 January 2013 11: 21
    The author once again poked into a puddle.
    Ukraine has almost halved the purchase of Russian gas (from 2bn to 52bn.), And is not going to stop there, and taking into account the fact that offshore drilling has just begun and has not yet reached full capacity, and gas development from sandstones and shale has not yet begun (but will certainly begin), also now they are just beginning to introduce technologies for the use of coal methane (soon it will be massive). In addition, mass heat exchanges are switching to the use of other alternative types of fuel, energy-efficient energy saving programs are being implemented, and this is all a comprehensive program. Ukraine will stop buying Russian gas for 7-10 years at all!

    About the threads. Severny is loaded at 30% and the cost of transit through it is increasing. Southern without Ukrainian underground gas storage facilities (the largest in Europe, without them it is impossible to ensure uninterrupted deliveries in peak conditions) is useless, transport leverage is higher, the cost of transit will be more expensive, the construction cost is huge (by the way, you need to stretch the branch across Russia to 2500 km and this is except that it will be on the bottom). Moreover, without Russia accepting the third energy package, the EU will block the construction of the gas pipeline (the third energy package is third-party access for transportation through the pipe). So that the flag is in the hands of the Russians. Ukraine finally removes the gas noose.
    1. +5
      29 January 2013 11: 42
      I remember in 1991 the Ukrainian leadership stood up for the fact that they no longer need to feed their big, fat, lazy northern neighbor. "Neighbor" has grown swollen, but at the "Breadwinner" the wallet has become victorious and he himself has grown thin !!!! The Ukrainian labor force is gradually moving here. In Moscow every now and then I see cars with Ukrainian license plates, which obviously did not come here for tourist purposes.
      1. itkul
        +5
        29 January 2013 13: 25
        Quote: PROXOR
        no longer need to feed the big, fat lazy northern neighbor.


        They also mentioned always drunk. I have not forgotten
      2. anton107798
        -1
        29 January 2013 20: 28
        And I in Kharkov because of Russian numbers cannot park! also obviously not tourists arrived
    2. Misantrop
      +4
      29 January 2013 11: 45
      Quote: - = ALEX = -
      offshore drilling has just begun and has not yet reached full capacity

      Is it near Snake? Well, yes, Romania is waiting for Ukraine to do intelligence for it, what the hell is it to spend its money?
      Quote: - = ALEX = -
      gas development from sandstones and shales has not yet begun (but will certainly begin), and now they are just starting to introduce technologies for using coal methane (soon it will be massively)

      Have you completed the environmental impact assessment of these projects? Or didn’t they even start? And then the Chernobyl accident may seem like a childish prank ... And then, in fact, the purchase of gas may stop completely - there will be nobody to buy
      1. Misantrop
        +5
        29 January 2013 12: 16
        Oh minus the silent appeared lol
        As far as I remember, coal methane production technology is INCOMPATIBLE with the current method of coal mining. Those. By launching it, Ukraine risks not only completely destroying the coal industry that it currently has, but also completely blocking the possibility of its revival if the project proves unsuccessful. For then only the suicide will slip under the ground. Wild minus in the economy and unemployed Donetsk region (miners are unemployed, and the other is not there). Shale gas with horizontal loosening undermining is also not a gift (the internet is full of information on this topic)
    3. +5
      29 January 2013 11: 45
      Quote: - = ALEX = -
      Ukraine will stop buying Russian gas for 7-10 years at all!

      It was smooth on paper! The state of the economy and risks do not at all take into account the subsequent losses of the Ukrainian economy. Ukraine has no money for development, so they will have to borrow it or Shell will sponsor it, and whoever pays, he will dance.
      Quote: - = ALEX = -
      About the threads. Severny is loaded at 30% and the cost of transit through it is increasing. Southern without Ukrainian underground gas storage facilities (the largest in Europe, without them it is impossible to ensure uninterrupted supplies in peak conditions) is useless, transport leverage is greater, transit cost will be more expensive, the construction cost is huge

      Yes, you are one smarter than all engineers, economists and designers. You just have NO price laughing
      Quote: - = ALEX = -
      Ukraine finally removes the gas noose.

      How many of you here on the site already had such prophecies, but years go by and nothing changes hi
    4. +3
      29 January 2013 12: 44
      You dear look at the map, then you will see that the transport shoulder at the North Stream is much shorter than through Ukraine, as for the South Stream, there is no need to build a 2500 km pipe to the Black Sea, it can be laid from the border sections of other pipelines, all the more, that "in 7-10 years" you will not need Russian gas at all. As for the gas that is produced on your shelf, it still needs to be cleaned of sulfur, otherwise you will start swimming in acid rain, with all the ensuing consequences.
    5. oSB
      +7
      29 January 2013 15: 28
      Dear, now count all the “+” in the agreement (those that were voiced in the media).
      The contract is about 10 years.
      The share for Ukraine from gas produced is about 11%.
      Damage to the entire eco-system.
      How much do you personally, I, a neighbor, as citizens of the country receive dividends from using our resources with you, and how much will the “comrade” get at the helm?
      It’s interesting and entertaining to be talking about self-reliance when I'm full and the children don’t howl! And when the last ... without salt you eat, I do not care about everyone and everything!
      Before fleeing to the EU, USA or the Russian Federation, you must honestly and clearly answer your own questions - who needs it and why!
      1. Industrial Europe? Our half-dead heavy industry is like a bone in their throat, until they are destroyed in "0", we will not be in the EU. This is us.
      2. Our agricultural industry? Bone for southern EU. Again to us.
      3. SUCH? They need resources and a chain dog, they don’t give a damn about the rest of the examples of the sea! Again to us.
      4. RF? I'm not sure anymore (they become very self-sufficient), although I still hope that cooperation can help not kill the industry. Yes, and relatives as well. Though small, but +.
      So maybe it makes sense to move to the positive?
      1. 0
        30 January 2013 20: 54
        Quote: osb
        4. RF? I'm not sure anymore (they become very self-sufficient), although I still hope that cooperation can help not kill the industry.

        Yes, and relatives kind of. Though small, but +.


        Not small, but HUGE AND ONLY ... fool ...! ! !
    6. +2
      29 January 2013 16: 03
      "Ukraine is finally taking off the gas noose." And lays his head on the chopping block of big politics. As soon as gas from the Gulf appears in the pipes of the UkrGTS, these same pipes will have other owners. In the southern city of Chernomorsk, according to the official data, 10% is Muslim. Cells of the Muslim brigade, Taliban and Konechno Alqaidians have been successfully working for a long time in a certain large manufactured goods market for a long time. .300 militiamen, led by BTR-80, tried to do something with 3 militants. They could not do anything, therefore they fired about 4 hours at them with grenade launchers. One escaped anyway. It's scary to think what will happen if there are 30, 300, 3000 and etc. There are 800000 militiamen on the territory of Ukraine.
    7. +1
      30 January 2013 14: 01
      Remove the Russian noose, extracting your gas.
      It’s interesting, and when will you start to release your goods, getting rid of dependence on Chinese goods?
  16. 0
    29 January 2013 11: 38
    So that the flag is in the hands of the Russians. Ukraine finally removes the gas noose.

    Do not say GOP !!!
    1. +3
      29 January 2013 17: 11
      A bit wrong. "Russia will finally take off the gas noose": it will be more correct.
  17. 0
    29 January 2013 11: 43
    Alexander Romanov
    Then the people who are so eager for Europe will appreciate
    ,

    Do you think it does not understand this? Most understand. But nobody wants to go to the government with a pitchfork. Why did you choose Yanukovych? He spoke out for intimacy with Russia. The result ... Everyone knows.
    Everyone knows Lviv by their throaty sounds, which are best heard of. The population there is also quite adequate. All these polls and ratings of Russia in Ukraine are man-made.
  18. Skavron
    +1
    29 January 2013 11: 52
    For PROKHOR.
    The text is not mine, honestly copied. The resource is not at all political and economic, therefore a link to the source is optional.
    Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.
    1. Skavron
      +1
      29 January 2013 11: 54
      Agriculture.



      Fruit vegetables (onions, peaches, apricots, watermelons, grapes, wine, juices)

      Sales Market - Ukraine, Russia.

      Delivery - mainly by their own transport, trucks, or by rail.

      What will happen?

      Again - two borders, four customs, certificates, permits, licenses, customs duties, fines, transport tax, requisitions, sabotage, corruption, bribes, delays at the borders, half of the spoiled goods to the dump.

      Cost increases at times. By air - ten times more expensive.

      Ass!



      But this is just a saying. And now a fairy tale.



      The land border near Crimea is only with Ukraine.

      All energy carriers to Crimea go through the territory of Ukraine. Gas pipelines, oil pipelines, power lines, as well as railways and highways.

      Now the price of electricity for consumers in Ukraine and the Crimea is 4 times cheaper than in Russia.

      Gas is 30% cheaper. Gasoline is a bit more expensive, but transport tax is included in its price.

      With the change in the status of Crimea, all energy prices rise several times and problems and a shortage of oil gas still appear.

      Agricultural products are unprofitable, tourism is in the ass. The standard of living falls below the plinth, which further exacerbates the criminal situation and all sorts of national and religious conflicts.
      1. Skavron
        +3
        29 January 2013 11: 55
        Water, water! Water around.



        Crimea is surrounded by water. From all sides. But salty.

        There is very little fresh water.

        After the annexation of Crimea in 1954 to Ukraine, a canal was built that connected the Dnieper with the Crimea.

        The capacity of the North Crimean Canal is 300 cubic meters per second.

        What happens if you shut off the water?

        Well, we will not block, we will not let die of thirst.

        Let's dime for a bucket.

        And this is 10 billion dollars annually.


        "And if they refuse?"

        "And if they refuse and will not buy, we will cut off the water" - K / F Diamond Arm.
        1. xan
          +3
          29 January 2013 12: 38
          Skavron,
          I made so much beech, and in each line I agree that he will soon become Russian
          and the rest, water, border, railway and terrorism are garbage, Russia will decide this in one season, don’t go to your grandmother, we are not Ukrainians
          I remind you, Crimeans are overwhelmingly for entering Russia, and the more problems U have, the more detachable the Crimea is.
          1. 12061973
            +1
            29 January 2013 17: 26
            It has already been two years since I moved to live from Russia in the Crimea, and over the past two years I have accumulated considerable irritation towards my compatriots. What fools they are.

            I am ready to show Russia the bill for stereotyped thinking, "MKAD" outlook and obsession with outdated political doctrines. The truth is that modern Ukraine (and the Autonomous Republic of Crimea in its composition) is not at all what Russian journalists, politicians and VIPs of all stripes imagine them to be.

            One of the basic Russian misconceptions is the desire to reunite Crimea with Russia. As if a priori, it is believed that Crimea longs for reunification. Two groups of arguments serve as the basis for such judgments. First: Khrushchev did not have the right to donate Crimea to Ukraine. Second: Russian and Russians dominate in Crimea. The Russians conquered it, defended it with blood. And in general, "give me such a pearl!"

            I also reasoned like this until I settled here. The blinkers from my eyes were torn off almost immediately, as soon as I went beyond the beach and started talking with the locals, as they say, on equal terms.

            My first discovery was that there are two styles of communication among local residents (Crimeans): "for tourists", who are sometimes called invaders behind their backs in the old fashioned way, and "for themselves". They tell Russian tourists what they, tourists, are pleased to hear. That they, the Russians, "feed the whole Crimea", that Russia is a Klondike with a high salary, that all the former Soviet republics want to go to Russia, and each individual of their residents also wants to go to Russia, because she is the mother of all peoples, and in the USSR in general life was better. Even the Crimean Tatars in the market say so.
    2. Misantrop
      +9
      29 January 2013 12: 39
      Quote: Skavron
      Detachment of Crimea from Ukraine - two options, three scenarios.
      Option one. Separation into a separate state, gaining independence
      Option Two. Disconnection followed by accession to Russia.
      Three scenarios.

      1. Referendum

      2. Peaceful resolution of the issue through negotiations between Russia and Ukraine with the voluntary transfer of Crimea to Russia.

      3. Forced detachment of the Crimea, according to the scenario of South Ossetia.

      In the early 90s, I proposed the fifth option. For the fourth is at Aksenov. "Crimea Island" is called, read wink And the fifth one was to dig Perekop and fill in the Kerch Strait with the help of the equipment then available to the construction company. Fast, not expensive and cheerful wassat And no borders with Russia laughing Diesel fuel was not found then, alas ...

      But seriously, the scrap prices for literally everything in Crimea are now artificially created. Kiev, according to a very simple scheme - the absolute majority of everything that is profitable in Crimea (motels, boarding houses, factories, etc.) has head offices in Kiev and pays taxes there. Crimea gets only waste and a dying environment. If there is a development option under SUCH an economic scheme, please voice.

      Following. WATER. Yes, the North Crimean Canal brings a decent amount of fresh water to Crimea. From the Dnieper, very dirty. And in order to plant the peninsula on a "water needle" during the construction of the canal, a huge number of local water production systems were destroyed. For centuries they have coped with this task. Yes, Crimea was quite arid, but it was NEVER a desert.

      And one more thing, about the unanimity and solidarity of the Crimean Tatars. Do not flatter yourself, now is not the 95th year. These guys, having arrived and sorted out on the spot, significantly wiser. So if the Mejlis is gathering someone now, then the Tatars themselves will transmit this herd of scumbags first thing. Since the escalation of the conflict will hit them first and foremost, there WILL NOT be a third deportation. Only at the bottom of the Black Sea. And they understand it perfectly
      1. Skavron
        -2
        29 January 2013 13: 18
        ATP, for your "Crimean" comment. I was waiting for the opinion of the Crimean.
        In occasion of the 5th option +)) mood lifted)))
        1. Misantrop
          +4
          29 January 2013 15: 32
          Yes there is nothing wink By the way, about water. In fact, her in the Crimea ... is full. This became known relatively recently, but ... the channel was already built and they preferred not to raise the topic. Due to the peculiarities of the geological structure, Sivash is the largest natural desalination system known on the planet. The water taken there passes under the whole Crimea, and its spillway is located at a shallow depth in the region of Sevastopol (towards Yalta). Here is such an interesting fact winked
  19. +4
    29 January 2013 11: 55
    Ukraine all boasts that it is independent, essentially losing it for a long time !!!! Under the USSR, Ukraine was an all-union granary, health resort and forge. Having left the USSR, Ukraine lost its cheap energy source. Coal does not count. Where is all this smithy, granary and health resort now?
  20. Skavron
    -3
    29 January 2013 11: 56
    And why the Crimea of ​​Russia?



    Assume that nevertheless ...

    What will it cost Russia and what are the benefits in the long run?

    Hundreds of billions need to be invested in the preparatory process and in the forced rejection operation.

    Again, innocent Russian soldiers and many Russian people living in Crimea will die.

    Then hundreds of billions need to be swelled to restore and raise agriculture.

    As a result, Russia has a new black hole in the budget and another zone of military conflict, and after the settlement of the military conflict - a hot spot.

    Crimea will receive the status of South Ossetia, an unrecognized republic.

    World economic blockade and political isolation, all kinds of sanctions, embargoes.

    Of course, if Russia again throws one hundred million Nicaragua, Nauru and Tuvalu - these will be recognized.

    What for? How did their recognition of Nauru affect the residents of South Ossetia? Is there an economic effect?
    1. Skavron
      -1
      29 January 2013 11: 56
      Totals.



      Refugees fleeing in large numbers in the Stavropol Territory, the Kuban, the Don.

      Migrant workers creep across Russia.

      Crimean Russians with new Russian passports begin to migrate to Russia.

      The criminal element is moving to Moscow.

      A new massacre, new terrorist attacks, a new rise in crime - not only in the Crimea, but also in Russia and Moscow.

      Putin is budgeting hundreds of billions of dollars to Crimea for a new scum.



      And what about the Crimea?



      Desert.

      Everyone got together, no one wants to and can’t work, no conditions, no water, no electricity, no gas, no oil, all around the enemies, criminals and Tatars rule the ball on the South Coast.



      And who needs it?



      Do you need this? Take it away. But after a year, ask to be taken back.

      But how much blood will be shed both ours and yours?

      How much damage and who and for whose money will it be restored?



      That is why there was no referendum.

      That is why there will be no referendum.



      And all the talk about disconnecting is just a show-off of Ukrainophobes, such as Zatulin and Luzhkov, with the aim of teasing the Verkhovna Rada and pitting the Ukrainian Communists with Ukrainian nationalists.



      So, I would advise everyone who wishes to return the Crimea and Sevastopol to wave the handkerchiefs and sing a song: (C)



      "Goodbye beloved city,

      We leave tomorrow at sea ... "(C)
      1. +8
        29 January 2013 12: 06
        OH BLYNE TELLER !!!!!!!!
        JAPANESAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        Good!
        The number of Crimean Tatars in 2012 is about 220 people. The number of Chechen people in 000 is 2012 people. How long will this gang with shovels last for example against the 1th army? Oh well. They’ll pick up a couple of hundred trunks, well, okay, a thousand different and then what? On the territory of Crimea is full of Russian citizens who obviously will not run given that Crimea will be taken very quickly. This is not Chechnya and there are no impassable mountains in Crimea. So the Crimean Tatars have a zero chance of a hell of a tenth.
        1. Skavron
          +3
          29 January 2013 12: 20
          umm ... in Chechnya stopped shooting? Can I just go climbing in the mountains? Do not make me laugh.
          1. +1
            29 January 2013 15: 09
            Ukrainian can
            1. mga04
              +3
              29 January 2013 15: 18
              As my father once said, "They do not hit on the passport, but in the face." Then maybe they will look in the passport, but it will be too late.
          2. +3
            29 January 2013 16: 36
            Well, it seems like the Ukrainian mercenaries stopped fighting on a rotational basis, it became calmer.
        2. Gans72
          0
          29 January 2013 18: 07
          But who will count them all, these Tatars. It's like drug addicts. According to the official statistics there are 10 of them, but in reality 10 of them near each point.
    2. +8
      29 January 2013 12: 02
      Quote: Skavron
      Hundreds of billions need to be invested in the preparatory process and in the forced rejection operation

      Believe me, it’s enough to invest one billion dollars and Crimea will stand on its hind legs and send Kiev to hell.
      Quote: Skavron
      what is the benefit in the long run?

      Outpost and lack of eternal hemorrhoids with the fleet.
      Quote: Skavron
      World economic blockade and political isolation, all kinds of sanctions, embargoes.

      It is enough to hold a referendum on joining Russia and that’s it! Russia doesn’t give a damn about the economic blockades, they will not trample against Russia. It is possible to arrange a blockade against Iran.
      Quote: Skavron
      Of course, if Russia again throws one hundred million Nicaragua, Nauru and Tuvalu - these will be recognized.

      Russia did not pay to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, simply because recognition of Russia itself is sufficient.
      Quote: Skavron
      What for? How did their recognition of Nauru affect the residents of South Ossetia?

      Economic from Russia and now it is much better than it was as part of Georgia!
      1. Skavron
        +1
        29 January 2013 12: 19
        no, arguments are not essentially dear fellow moderator
        you do not pull quotes, but as a whole perceive then you will understand the meaning
        1. +3
          29 January 2013 12: 40
          Quote: Skavron
          you do not pull quotes, but as a whole perceive then you will understand the meaning

          Do you believe that I have not read everything? It will be foolish to copy all of your text, especially since you yourself wrote it. I think the answer is clear to you personally.
          With regards to not arguments and not to the point, you yourself put forward the versions, asked the questions you want to get an answer to. You don’t like the answer, so what to do hi
          1. Skavron
            0
            29 January 2013 13: 12
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Stupid will copy all your text

            Yes, I agree. I got a lot of text. But excuse me, I'm not the author. Just as an option.
            1. +4
              29 January 2013 14: 22
              Quote: Skavron
              But excuse me, I'm not the author.

              Yes, what problems, we are sitting normally talking. drinks
  21. +5
    29 January 2013 12: 06
    I’m not ceasing to be amazed at the politics of Ukraine ... And so the Russian territories were attached to them under the empire and the Soviets, and we defended them when they needed from the Poles and other interventionists, almost all the post-Soviet years gave them gas and oil for free, and they are throwing their whole famine (they came up with a word! winked, as if in Russia there was no hunger! sad ), and not just the words of gratitude, but the words of good from them you can’t hear from Russia ... If only to somehow spoil ... And give all the discounts, discounts ...
    1. Skavron
      0
      29 January 2013 12: 22
      Quote: deo75
      If only to spoil somehow ... And all the discounts come on, discounts ..

      That reptiles are not grateful !!!
      And I about the same ... it's time to stop already.
  22. mga04
    +3
    29 January 2013 12: 14
    And I am grateful to Russia for such pressure on Ukraine. There is a saying - "Until the thunder breaks out, the man does not cross himself." So Russia is satisfied with such peals of thunder, perfectly stimulating the Ukrainian economy. At one time, such a "thunder" was Russia's attempt to block the Pakistani tank contract - as a result, a closed cycle of tank production was created in Ukraine.
    There was a refusal to supply components for assembly on the territory of Ukraine AN-148, as a result of a sharp reduction in the Russian share in this aircraft, and Ukrainian enterprises have mastered the production of systems not previously produced, for example, landing gear.
    So gas blackmail in the long term will have a positive effect for Ukraine, and Russia will lose a decent piece of the market. If the gas price were at the Belarusian level, no one would move with either their own production or with a decrease in energy consumption.
    And by the way about the price. No one asks for a price at the Belarusian level, asking for a normal European price. In the meantime, it is more profitable for Ukraine to buy gas in Germany (!) Than in Russia. The difference even with double pumping is more than $ 50.
    1. xan
      +1
      29 January 2013 12: 47
      mga04,
      I can’t stop wondering where such dartanyans come from in economics and investments.
      offer your services to Yanukovych
    2. +2
      29 January 2013 23: 28
      I agree with you that high gas prices have positive aspects that you mentioned. Well, you need to rejoice, and not ask for a "normal European price". It's kind of illogical. And as for the Belarusians, I will say this - if Belarus had at least 1 / 10th the share of energy in Ukraine (coal, nuclear power plants, gas, just a warmer climate), Belarusians would have used this long ago. And the Ukrainians rassusolivayut and try to "take on the show" of the Russians. Work, not whine and beg for "normal European price".
  23. +3
    29 January 2013 12: 21
    Are you serious about Germany and its gas? Do you think she will sell you a lot of it? You want "normal European gas price". Do you know that gas prices for Europe are about XNUMX times higher than gas prices for Ukraine? And as for economic friction in the field of a particular production, this is healthy competition, and it really only benefits you ...
  24. mga04
    +1
    29 January 2013 12: 26
    Quote: deo75
    Do you know that gas prices for Europe are higher than gas prices for Ukraine about one and a half times?

    And there is no desire to voice the numbers?
    1. xan
      +1
      29 January 2013 22: 56
      there are further figures in the discussions
      you will be pleasantly surprised
  25. Skavron
    +4
    29 January 2013 12: 35
    In general, of course you can ... end up indefinitely, but the question posed in the title can be answered as follows:
    Complete energy independence of Ukraine is not possible. And it makes no sense to hide it. Because large enterprises still have to take gas for their needs somewhere. Is it possible to reduce dependence? It is possible and necessary! The development of both alternative sources and increasing the production of its gas will reduce energy dependence by about 50-60% from the current one. And this is already good.
    And now the most interesting question. But is it necessary for our rulers? The question is rather rhetorical, because This process is very difficult, it requires a HUGE investment, and the point is not where to get the money, you can find the money, only we, unfortunately, haven’t decided to share hard-earned money, it’s better to ask for another loan from the IMF. For the dribbling. Or attract investors to the economy? After all, it is possible ... and it is necessary. But these are all difficult paths. Our lords have no desire for this, and the majority have a proprietary thinking, not a state one. Here you have problems out of the blue, here’s gas wars
  26. +2
    29 January 2013 12: 35
    here you can draw apocalyptic paintings -
    http://www.kontra20.ru/p/peremoga/
    type of default and collapse sad
    Question to the Ukrainian comrades - is it really that serious?
    1. Eraser
      +2
      29 January 2013 13: 07
      Honestly, he laughed at the comments. Fun written. laughing Well, and if it’s serious, I don’t even know if those guys correctly assume, then of course Ukraine will have a very hard time.
  27. gladiatorakz
    +6
    29 January 2013 12: 39
    Ukraine will lose money from gas transit from Russia. Russia will lose a major buyer of its gas. Both are losers, so that ORT does not say there.
    And most importantly, such a Jewish policy moves our countries farther and farther away. And both are to blame.
  28. 0
    29 January 2013 12: 40
    I agree with Skavron.
    For mga04 - look for the numbers yourself, it's not so difficult to do ...
  29. +4
    29 January 2013 12: 48
    The guys from Ukraine are still strange - gas is not needed, and they don’t stop dreaming about price reductions, although it’s clear without glasses that the TS could solve a lot of problems with the Ukrainian economy, including employment, because what is produced in Ukraine, in the EU no one needs, there they protect their producers.
    1. Skavron
      0
      29 January 2013 13: 15
      Andrei, no one says that gas is not needed at all !!! He is a must!
      The question is that all the same we would take up the mind ourselves, and not walk around the world with outstretched hands. Now in the EU, then in the CU, then in the IMF ...
      1. +3
        29 January 2013 14: 18
        Quote: Skavron
        The question is that all the same we would take up the mind ourselves, and not walk around the world with outstretched hands. Now in the EU, then in the CU, then in the IMF ...

        Do you really not see that no one will give anyone a chance. Our "leaders" are accustomed to looking at the EU or at the IMF with dog-like eyes. Whoever throws a bone will be served, after all, it is much easier. we will shift it to the population (which, by the way, did not receive anything from the allocated funds). As they say in our country, it’s a filthy kind of nema stidu. The only bad thing is that thanks to Gazprom’s claims, the “Svidomites” received a colossal propaganda trump card, now they will brandish them like flag and fool people's heads.
        1. Skavron
          0
          29 January 2013 14: 42
          I propose to create a party of real patriots!
          * not nationalists.
      2. +4
        29 January 2013 14: 26
        Quote: Skavron
        The question is, what would all the same take up the mind ourselves,

        Is there light at the end of the tunnel?
        Quote: Skavron
        rather than walking the world with outstretched hands. Now in the EU, then in the CU, then in the IMF ...

        The EU or the CU is a matter of the future, as far as the IMF is concerned, for starters, you need to repay your debts and begin to pursue an independent financial policy. Otherwise, joining the EU will only increase creditor arrivals.
        1. Skavron
          +1
          29 January 2013 14: 41
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

          Oh, not yet visible.
          But tension in society is already beginning to appear. Distrust of the authorities, no matter which party, is growing.
        2. Misantrop
          +3
          29 January 2013 15: 38
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

          There is, how not to be. But judging by the sounds accompanying him, this light comes from an oncoming steam locomotive. Which is somewhat annoying winked
  30. +3
    29 January 2013 13: 10
    Quote: deo75
    we defended them when they needed from the Poles and other interventionists

    Especially personally you ... Here, I dig in the search.
    "Pursuing an expansionist policy, the Russian autocracy set
    to destroy the Zaporizhzhya Sich. The tsarist government deemed incompatible the autonomous existence of Sich within the Russian Empire. He was frightened by the role of Sich as the inspirer of republican ideas in the country.
    In addition, the Cossacks resisted the seizure of their land by the landowners and the tsarist government. In April 1775 The Russian army, under the command of General P. Tekelia, returning from the war, carried out the order of Catherine II - captured the fortifications of New Sich and destroyed them.
    Artillery, military regalia, Sich archive and material assets were taken out. To destroy the economic foundation of Zaporozhye, the tsarist authorities liquidated 25 thousand wealthy Cossack farms, which are the bulwark of freedom and independence from state structures of the empire.
    The fate of the Cossack leaders turned out to be tragic. The ataman P.Kalnyshevsky and other leaders were arrested and sent into exile. Kalnyshevsky sat in a stone pit on Solovki for 25 years and died in 1803. at the age of 113 years.
    The elimination of the Zaporizhzhya Sich is one of the links in the repressive policy of tsarism aimed at annihilating self-government in the national regions of the country and suppressing the anti-feudal movement.
    The fate of the Cossacks was different. Some of them were classified as state military settlers. The Cossack poor fell into dependence on the new landowners. But more than 5 thousand Cossacks left for Turkey and founded the Transdanubian Sich (1775-1828). Of the remaining Cossacks in 1788r. the tsarist government formed the Black Sea Cossack army, which in 1792. was transferred to the Kuban. "
    And serfdom in Ukraine? And what did the Confederates of Branitsky do on the territory of Ukraine with the consent of the Russian Empress? Why didn’t she protect the whole villages, didn’t she protect them? And how many millions of Ukrainians died in the Great Patriotic War, shoulder to shoulder with the Russians, Azerbaijanis, Jews in our common Motherland? Defender You ours and benefactor, you should read more ... fool
    1. Misantrop
      +5
      29 January 2013 15: 43
      Quote: revnagan
      "Pursuing an expansionist policy, the Russian autocracy set
      to destroy the Zaporizhzhya Sich. The tsarist government deemed incompatible the autonomous existence of Sich within the Russian Empire. He was scared by the role of Sich as the inspirer of republican ideas in the country.

      And if you strain a little and remember, WHAT exactly does this community earn for a living? And no sane state would want to have a similar enclave inside the country. Cossacks showed themselves perfectly as border guards, but there were no airports then ... Can you offer another option for using border guards within the country?
      IMHO do not need to look for policies within the economy wink
      1. 0
        29 January 2013 17: 22
        Quote: Misantrop
        Can you suggest another option for using border guards domestically?

        "From the remaining Cossacks in 1788 the tsarist government formed the Black Sea Cossack army, which in 1792 was transferred to the Kuban."
        And why was it necessary to ruin the rich farms of the "nests"? 25 thousand farms is how many people around the world to let! And enslave the peasants? This is all for the good of the people of Ukraine? Of course, I understand that all this was done not by the Russian people, but by the autocratic government , but write that we were only saved and protected, but we are so ungrateful, insanity.
        1. Misantrop
          +3
          29 January 2013 17: 51
          Quote: revnagan
          "From the remaining Cossacks in 1788 the tsarist government formed the Black Sea Cossack army, which in 1792 was transferred to the Kuban."

          This is precisely the USE FOR THE PURPOSE. What are the claims?
          Quote: revnagan
          And why ruin the rich farmers of the "nests"?
          And this is no longer SECURITY. On the Sich it was not. Here, as it is now customary to say, there is a "dispute between economic entities" (that is, not interaction between the supreme power and the given people, but somewhat below the level. interests and it is necessary to look for, and not to hang sins on the queen. If you want to EXPLORE, and not to find extreme wink
          1. Gans72
            0
            29 January 2013 19: 00
            And now, our younger brothers (although I don’t see any relatives, but oh well, they say so, let it be so) want to use us for their intended purpose. First join, and then to the border with China or where else to send. They have a great experience in this matter .
            1. Misantrop
              +5
              29 January 2013 20: 20
              Quote: GANS72
              First join, and then to the border with China or somewhere else to send. They have a great experience in this matter.

              My mother-in-law is pure Ukrainian. But ... from the Far East. Not enemies sent, and not all brothers. Her ancestors themselves left, already in 1903 (then there was also nothing to eat). They asked the king for help, and he answered that in the East of free land in bulk. Here are their 6 families from the village and went for reconnaissance (the rest later moved when the newcomers unsubscribed). We drove with all the belongings on the oxen, 2 years. Typically, no one regretted the relocation
          2. -4
            29 January 2013 20: 31
            Quote: Misantrop
            This is precisely the USE FOR THE PURPOSE. What are the claims?

            Well, what am I talking about. Why was the whole Sich destroyed instead of being used as intended in a new place?
            Quote: Misantrop
            And this is no longer SECURITY. In the Sich this was not.

            But it was in Ukraine, right? Well, where is the protection and protection from Russia?
            1. Misantrop
              +3
              29 January 2013 23: 17
              Quote: revnagan
              Well, where is the patronage and protection from Russia?
              To the population or to a semi-anarchic military formation atypical of the state? Imagine for a moment that the Red Army is liberating Belarus from the German troops and ... leaving the partisan detachments in the same composition and in the same places of deployment as under the Germans. Presented a picture? wassat
              1. -1
                30 January 2013 00: 17
                Quote: Misantrop
                Presented a picture?

                But, in your words, you can send partisan detachments to the front, and not disperse them, destroying camps and destroying banners. And, by the way, it’s the partisan detachments that saved Minsk from the Germans breaking through from the encirclement. And the insanity of the population supporting these detachments is at the top.
                1. Misantrop
                  +2
                  30 January 2013 00: 48
                  Quote: revnagan
                  you can send partisan units to the front

                  And what will they do there, partisan? In the linear units, their combat value is zero, they are not imprisoned for this. As for the Belarusians, they are definitely not in the know, but in Crimea both my grandfathers received summons the next day in the morning, as soon as Yalta was liberated. After the partisan detachment, we managed to spend only a night at home. But this is about partisans.
                  As for Sich, then in that place and with the same population there inevitably would have emerged in exactly a few years the exact same formation. And no other, just according to the familiar pattern. And what's next, start a relocation again? And how many times?
                  1. -1
                    30 January 2013 12: 35
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    As for Sich, then in that place and with the same population there inevitably would have emerged in exactly a few years the exact same formation.

                    Well, now it’s clear, there’s no population, no Sich, there’s no problem ... Brilliant.
                    1. +1
                      30 January 2013 18: 22
                      Quote: revnagan
                      it is clear, there is no population, no Sich, there is no problem ..

                      In fact, O. Buzina has a very good study on this subject (although, perhaps, you spit on him). But he simply brings the original letter of T. Shevchenko to his friend - the Sich chieftain, whom he was going to visit on the way from St. Petersburg to his homeland. "I want to come to see you on Sich ..." Where is Shevchenko going, if according to our historians the Sich has not existed at all since the time of Catherine?
                    2. Misantrop
                      +1
                      30 January 2013 18: 27
                      But SO such issues were resolved at that time in enlightened Europe:
                      http://nstarikov.ru/club/23261

                      Do you like this option more? wink
    2. xan
      +2
      29 January 2013 18: 26
      Quote: revnagan
      He was frightened by the role of Sich as the inspirer of republican ideas in the country

      And could one expect from the queen, tolerance, freedom of speech, etc.?
      Quote: revnagan
      And serfdom in Ukraine? And what did the Confederates of Branitsky do on the territory of Ukraine with the consent of the Russian Empress? What did it allow to cut out entire villages from?

      Serfdom at that time was everywhere in Europe, in Ukraine it was before joining Moscow. The Confederates created on the right Polish bank of the Dnieper, in left Russian they would have pissed the peasant on the peasant too. Pole Branitsky was the head of the Russian party in Poland, all of whose activities were aimed at the pro-Russian course of Poland. The rebellious Ukrainian peasants did not ask the emperors for permission.
      Quote: revnagan
      Defender You are our benefactor, you should read more.

      you need to read more, and not in fits and starts, but in the complex.
      if ukrov something unsettled in history, it was necessary to organize and achieve, but it turned out only ruins. And the Russians did it. Who are the complaints?
      and yet, after Mazepa in Russian Ukraine there was not one rebellion against it, but the Polish one blazed constantly before joining Moscow.
      1. -3
        29 January 2013 20: 34
        Quote: xan
        you need to read more, and not in fits and starts, but in the complex.

        And you don’t poke me, I didn’t wallow in the same ditch with you. So don’t need a thread.
        1. xan
          -2
          29 January 2013 22: 43
          revnagan,
          got it
          essentially nothing to say
          I thought so
  31. Dipsy
    +2
    29 January 2013 13: 13
    I think Ukraine can supply hopak, through barter.
    In exchange for gas.
    1. +1
      30 January 2013 15: 15
      I didn’t put a minus just because you have the Ukrainian flag, a compatriot for such a post would be minus for the very tomatoes.
  32. -2
    29 January 2013 13: 34
    quote = deo75] we defended them when they needed from the Poles and other interventionists [/ quote]
    Here is an excerpt from V Pikul's book "Favorite", volume 1, "His Empress"
    “At first, St. Petersburg looked at Gaidamak’s affairs through its fingers: the freemen weakened the Confederates of Bar, and it was even beneficial for Russian politics. But now the flames of fires threatened to spread from the Right-Bank Ukraine (Polish) to the Left-Bank (Russian) Ukraine, and Catherine called a meeting.
    “When a person drowns,” said Nikita Panin, “they do not ask him what his faith is and what he thinks of the kingdom of heaven. The drowning man is grabbed by the scruff of the neck, saving. Polish pans themselves are guilty of popular indignation, but now they must be saved ...
    Only favorite Orlov stood up for the Haidamaks:
    - Remember Bogdan Khmelnitsky! Then no less, more blood was pouring. Are you saying that Gaunt and Zheleznyak are rebels? But, God have mercy, the Khmelnitsky mace also appeared bloody from the font! If under Tsar Alexei the same reasoning had been discussed, what are you judging now, Ukraine would never come close to Russia ...
    Major General Krechetnikov took the order from St. Petersburg painfully. He fought with the Confederates, Haidamaks helped him in the fight against them. How now to raise the weapon against the allies? He entrusted this task to Major Guryev:
    “Do it yourself, brother, and how is your business ...”
    Guryev, with troops and artillery, entered the forest, where the Haidamaks feasted, and said that he had been sent by the Empress herself, in order to facilitate the struggle of the Poles with the insatiable. With shouts of joy, the seromnaya met this news. The general gulba began. Guriev called for atamans to treat himself. They came. Gont was, and Zheleznyak appeared in the tent of a major ... They began to drink and pour one on top of the other. During the gulba, Guryev pulled out his pistols:
    - Grab them, robbers! - And at once they piled on the chieftains, entangled with belts, folded, like logs, on the grass in front of the tent in a row. “And now,” Guryev ordered, “we should separate our people from the left bank from those that are from the right bank ...”
    And their own, left-bank, in shackles, drove to Kiev, and the Polish Ukrainians were handed over for reprisals to the polity. If the Uman massacre had not happened, the reunification of Western Ukraine would have happened much earlier ... "
    What further did the Psheks do in Ukraine, I wonder? I advise you to read ...
    1. Misantrop
      +2
      29 January 2013 17: 57
      Quote: revnagan
      excerpt from V Pikul's book "Favorite", volume 1
      And at first there is no desire to see WHOM did the same V. Pikul put the Emperor Alexander III? Drunk and idiot. But in Europe he was called "Peacemaker", during his reign there was NOT a SINGLE war, not a single nit dared to glance at Russia. Accident? Are there many of them in international relations? Now we think HOW reliable are the data of the same V. Pikul ... winked
      1. -1
        29 January 2013 20: 36
        Quote: Misantrop
        Now we think, how much reliable are the data of the same V. Pikul ...

        In Pikul he did not invent events. He invented the SETTINGS, CHARACTER, and DIALOGUES of the heroes of his works, but not events. Do not you agree?
        1. Misantrop
          +1
          29 January 2013 23: 27
          Quote: revnagan
          He invented the setting, character and dialogue of the heroes of his works, but not events. Do not agree?

          I do not agree. He took events (most often reliable) and gave them his INTERPRETATION. According to all sources, Alexander III was recognized as the BEST of the kings of the Romanov dynasty. According to Pikul, there was no worse king on the Russian throne. What, during his reign, Europe was afraid to disturb the emperor's drunken dream, so that he would not break into a hangover? Even the proud British Empire all this time sat like a mouse under a broom (which is EXTREMELY typical for her in relation to Russia)
          1. -1
            29 January 2013 23: 47
            Quote: Misantrop
            According to Pikul, there was no worse king on the Russian throne.

            Hmm, I wonder where it is said by Valetin Savvich that the tsar was worse than Alexander III on the Russian throne? Could you quote? Indicating the work and chapter? That the tsar drank and could make up is true. But Pikul is nowhere and does not deny that under Alexander III, Russia was at the top of power, and the whole Europe was trembling from a sneeze in Petersburg. But the fact that he led the state like Yeltsin or Gorbachev is nowhere to be found.
            1. Misantrop
              +1
              30 January 2013 00: 25
              Quote: revnagan
              The fact that the king drank and could make out is true
              Indeed? The same alignment as about the Russians. Some write that Russians can drink (and a lot). Others - that everyone drinks all the time. Is there a difference? In the same "Three Ages of Okini-san" Alexander, if it is mentioned where, it must be in conjunction with drunkenness
  33. Mr.Fox
    +5
    29 January 2013 13: 53
    "... not to anger the Russian leadership once again with harsh and not always deliberate statements ..."

    Normal formulation of the question. Do you really think that some politician thinks in such categories? Ukraine will never buy gas at the current price if it is possible to buy it cheaper somewhere else. And not some abstract Ukraine, but concrete people, in particular Rinat Akhmetov, whose enterprises consume this gas. This is only the personal interest of a billionaire who wants to make a profit and he just doesn't care what kind of relations there will be between Russia and Ukraine and what the governments and presidents have agreed on. It is not politicians who run states, but businessmen. This has been the case for the last couple of centuries. As a result, Russia will have to make concessions, as it does in relation to Italy itself (the previously established gas prices for Italy were reduced after negotiations). Why would Ukraine have such a "fraternal" tariff and no concessions? And what will happen when nobody pays these 7 billions to Gazprom? Circus repetition with disconnection? And what will you do next? The European Union is already discussing the issue of imposing sanctions against Gazprom, and in the event of litigation, it will certainly take the side of Ukraine simply because Europe does not want to be on the gas needle either.
    The naive belief that since there is gas, everyone will dance to our tune, does not stand up to criticism. The easiest option is to freeze cooperation in the field of high technologies, and even easier, to strike a blow at the business, which is personally owned by Putin. But in reality, nothing will happen. Representatives of top management somewhere in the Canary Islands will negotiate. Everything will end as usual: the press (according to the same ORT) will tell about how Russia showed "am" "Kuzkin's mother", and we have on UT-1 about how we once again defended independence. Only neither Ivan from Ryazan, nor Petro z Chuguev will live better from this whole story.
    1. Skavron
      -3
      29 January 2013 14: 25
      Plus. ++++++
    2. +6
      29 January 2013 16: 52
      7 billion is compensation for 2 decades when gas was supplied for 50 bucks.
      You don’t understand, they didn’t want to buy gas for 50 bucks at the time ... Now they are outraged.
      Russia supported your economy for 20 years of your self-sufficiency by pushing not dozens like the IMF (which you still have to work out to the fullest), but tens of billions of dollars (3-4 billion a year) due to cheap gas. At the expense of cheap resources of Russia, your factories were at the very least competitive, now they aren’t mad, you’re still surprised at the attitude of Russia towards you when you hit the giver’s hand. Europe gave you anything besides a small handful of beautiful candy wrappers? Yes, she can’t even give anything material, she doesn’t have any minerals, unless straining can fart you a little in the pipe.
    3. 0
      30 January 2013 06: 35
      So, buy gas and other raw materials in other places, and do not send beggars.
      And why should Gazprom not close the pipe if it is not paid for gas? What’s abnormal here? Pay money - get raw materials, don’t pay - suck your paw or whatever you want by choice. The EU will introduce sanctions and what? If the government of the Russian Federation is adequate (doubtful, of course), then it will simply hammer on these sanctions and close the pipe. What will you do then, watch TV by candlelight?
    4. +1
      30 January 2013 11: 54
      Wake up, everything is already tied to Asia, and if Europe imposes sanctions, then believe me, we ordinary Russians will survive it, because we have no mansions in London.
      There is enough food and one's own, but goods are all the same produced in China.
  34. +1
    29 January 2013 14: 02
    To read all sorts of fiction, such as Pikul, a great mind is not necessary. Moreover, the truth in such books, let me say it, was not and never will be. I would be ashamed in your place as an argument to refer to such fictions and conjectures, albeit artistic ones.
    And where should the trust in the Zaporizhzhya Sich come from, if its Cossacks, though not all, betrayed Peter I (in particular, Mazepa, who fought with his Cossacks on the side of the Swedes) betrayed Russia which fought for them and which saved them from the genocide by the Poles long before before these events? This was really a knife in the back ... Therefore, Catherine II can be understood ...
    So revnagan you yourself fool
    1. +11
      29 January 2013 14: 18
      Quote: deo75
      To read all sorts of fiction, such as Pikul, a great mind is not necessary. Moreover, the truth in such books, let me say it, was not and never will be. I would be ashamed in your place as an argument to refer to such fictions and conjectures, albeit artistic ones.
      And where should the trust in the Zaporizhzhya Sich come from, if its Cossacks, though not all, betrayed Peter I (in particular, Mazepa, who fought with his Cossacks on the side of the Swedes) betrayed Russia which fought for them and which saved them from the genocide by the Poles long before before these events? That was really a knife in the back ... Therefore, Catherine can be understood ...
      So revnagan you yourself

      Forget to explain to them! We have been spreading propaganda about how we TOGETHER TOGETHER, or rather, our grandfathers stormed the Nazi den, shoulder to shoulder, and they have propaganda against Russia. Russian channels in Ukraine are disabled, only Ukrainian. And there ..ovna in Ukrainian uuuuuuu .... I looked once, it was already scary for where I live. Like little kids, by golly. They were all offered, saying, let's live together in the Customs Union. The Ministry of Defense was ready to purchase the AN-70. Now, unfortunately, this plane will sink into oblivion. Europe does not need it, we refused not to support a country that spits in our faces, and the domestic market of Ukraine is dead.
      I already wrote once. T-84 Stronghold has already disappeared. And everything else will disappear too. Including an aging fleet on the Black Sea.
      I don’t care about all this at all, but it's a hundred percent time bomb near us. As a result, we will have to introduce an army there in order to protect ourselves from the chaos that they will have in the near future if they follow the same course. And the whole world will be yelled at by INTERVENTION !!!!!
      1. Gans72
        -1
        29 January 2013 17: 49
        1-T-84 "Oplot" is more alive than dead. Thailand buys the same and rejoices.
        Will you introduce the 2nd Army? We are not Georgia and Chechnya, but you have strained with people (because Ukraine was so urgently needed)
        3-The whole world will not only scream at it. There are many people who want to shoot, there are many in the world, and NATO is very fond of financing them.
        4-Do you need it?
        1. itkul
          +1
          29 January 2013 18: 08
          Quote: GANS72
          The T-84 "Oplot" is more alive than dead. The same Thailand buys and rejoices.


          You can read about the production of Ukrainian tanks here, the picture is not rosy, alas

          http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2012/12/72.html
        2. +1
          30 January 2013 06: 20
          1. Thailand is not an argument. Wrong country level.
          2. Why introduce an army? Why do we need Ukraine? In the course and development of events, Ukraine needs Russia more than vice versa.
          3. Well, yes, they are shouting for independence, but they are immediately looking for those who have this independence, if they are led to what, they will defend it. Is that so in Ukrainian?
          4. No, we do not need it. And do not send begging messengers-beggars.
    2. 0
      29 January 2013 17: 51
      Quote: deo75
      To read all sorts of fiction, such as Pikul, a great mind is not necessary.

      You tell this to your compatriot, a certain PROKHOR. He dragged a fiction writer into a serious conversation, and did it with an apollo of an ignoramus. Read there above .... But Mazepa’s betrayal is just an excuse for Peter 1 to plow Ukraine. It’s ridiculous to assume that Mazepa and its 300-500
      drunkards could have influenced the outcome of the Battle of Poltava or the entire war. By the way, the overwhelming majority of the population of Ukraine in that war supported Russia, so to say that Ukraine stabbed Russia in the back only on the basis of Mazepa's actions is a direct provocation or a convenient reason for " punishment of traitors. "
      Quote: deo75
      Therefore, Catherine II can well be understood ...

      True, true: "you are to blame for that
      what I want to eat .. "
      Why is it that I am sword in front of you with a bisser. After all, you prefer to answer according to the principle, "the fool himself" ...
      1. xan
        +2
        29 January 2013 19: 50
        revnagan,
        It was not about the betrayal of the Ukrainians, but about the betrayal of the Cossacks of the Zaporizhzhya Sich. These are two different things.
        Zaporizhzhya Sich in the time of Catherine was not a republic, but a gang that lived according to its own laws. To eliminate it, it took only 2 Russian regiments. Somehow weak for the state-forming structure.
        1. DmitriRazumov
          +1
          30 January 2013 19: 06
          Quote: xan
          It was not about the betrayal of the Ukrainians, but about the betrayal of the Cossacks of the Zaporizhzhya Sich.

          Colleagues. Small clarification. There could be no betrayal of the "Ukrainians" then, because there was no such state and nation. People who lived on the territory of modern Ukraine in those places called themselves Russians ("Taras Bulba", Gogol). Ukraine or Ukraine in Russian documents from the 16th century. designated border areas. So there were Tver, Smolensk and other Ukrainians.
  35. 0
    29 January 2013 14: 26
    I completely share the opinion of PROXOR! Their propaganda is really Goebbels, thoroughly brainwashing ...
    1. +6
      29 January 2013 18: 07
      Quote: deo75
      I completely share the opinion of PROXOR! Their propaganda is really Goebbels, thoroughly brainwashing ...

      Brothers, but what does it have to do with propaganda ... Read your posts here. "We'll take away Crimea, you are invaders, gas was stolen, don't pay." And so on. In general, from many of you it sounds almost in plain text - Ukrainians-pee-pee-pee-ly. What do you want to hear in response? I’m stealing gas and occupying Crimea? I stabbed Russia in the back together with Mazepa and Sabakashvili? With such an attitude, no brainwashing or Goebbels propaganda is needed. There is so much that has not intertwined: both history and fiction. So, we will be considered grievances: who burned Baturin, and who went to Moscow with the Poles? So you can go far. Or will we look for something that can unite us? But only as equals with equals, without conceit. And all your claims are to the oligarchs. Well, if it is more pleasant for you to speak from the words of your oligarchs, to whom the Ukrainians "owe" a lot of money- Well, you won't be nice by force.
      1. xan
        +1
        29 January 2013 19: 53
        revnagan,
        Listen, eagle!
        Crimea Russian land and you are Ukrainians invaders there
        inappropriately telling you what Ukrainians are lovers of freedom and democracy, everything is visible in the Crimea, you are strangers there
        1. 0
          29 January 2013 23: 51
          Quote: xan
          Listen, eagle!

          I'm not a poet
          but I will say in verse
          go on ..y
          small steps, a fermenting patriot, a small troll.
        2. Gans72
          +1
          30 January 2013 00: 18
          So you are strangers there. For that matter, it’s generally Greek land. And everyone who lived and lives in Crimea after the Greeks, therefore, the OCCUPIERS. Not?
          Give Karelia to the Finns, and the Kaliningrad region of Germany. Like?
          1. +3
            30 January 2013 15: 40
            To return to Russia the territories of Slavic Europe, including the territory previously occupied by the Slavic Slavs, to return the Balkans, to return Manchuria, to return Hokkaido, to return Alaska, California, it will be necessary to return half of North America, then all sorts of Svalbard and the Komondor Islands there, to establish their sovereignty over Antarctica by right of discoverer .
            I have not mentioned the territories of the former union republics, as long as there many Russians do not touch these republics.
            About the Greeks in general smiled - do not learn history from Western propaganda, Western history a place in the alternative fiction.
            I forgot, there were still Etruscans, whose letters in the west could not be translated, and even it was not necessary to translate into Old Slavonic, everything is readable, return the Italian peninsula.
            It can be argued that not all Slavs are Russians, but the Germans, Italians or Chinese are definitely not Slavs.
            1. Skavron
              -1
              30 January 2013 16: 41
              Setrac, and what in your non-propaganda story says about the Greeks in Crimea?
              1. +4
                30 January 2013 17: 19
                The Greeks lived in Crimea with the rest of the citizens of the Ottoman Port, this is what is scientifically proven, the rest is the speculation of historians.
                1. Skavron
                  -1
                  30 January 2013 22: 01
                  The Greeks lived in Crimea, when there was no port at all. )))
                  1. 0
                    30 January 2013 23: 21
                    There is no evidence to support your claim, you can just as well be a caveat that the Greeks lived on Mars.
                    The minus is not mine.
                    1. Skavron
                      -1
                      31 January 2013 01: 58
                      laughing and the cities, now dug up, were not built by the Greeks ...
                      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Херсонес_Таврический
                      Well ... for general development)
                      but I’m not worried about the cons))) I don’t care ... after all, a minus or a plus on the network means nothing. Just a forum joke
                      Here you see how even my most innocuous statements are minus ... on the contrary, I am pleased, because usually minus for the unpleasant, but still the truth))))
                      1. 0
                        31 January 2013 20: 53
                        I draw your attention, even the false Wikipedia says that the Dorians moved from the north (northern Black Sea coast) to the south (Pelopones) during the conquest of Greece, nothing was said about the reverse movement of the Greeks.
                      2. Skavron
                        +1
                        1 February 2013 00: 38
                        ))))))))))))
                        og ... you still say that the Greeks came from the ancient Slavs
                      3. 0
                        1 February 2013 22: 57
                        Notice, I didn’t even say this, it happened so.
                      4. Skavron
                        0
                        2 February 2013 01: 38
                        No, don’t make me laugh ...
                        If I'm not mistaken of course, then the Dorians were a GREEK tribe))))
                      5. 0
                        2 February 2013 16: 16
                        This controversial statement, from the lands where the forerunners of the Slavs live the tribe comes, and it suddenly turns out to be Greek? You don’t make me laugh. From the Slavic lands come Slavic tribes, let the speculations of historians remain on their conscience.
        3. 0
          30 January 2013 00: 32
          Quote: xan
          Listen, eagle!

          Well, if you switched to the terminology of ornithologists, then please ...
          Listen, the leader of the chicken herd, if I didn’t catch up, I explain with my mother’s tongue — I’m Russian, was born here in Ukraine, And if it weren’t for the betrayal of Russian lovers of freedom and democracy, Gorbachev and Yeltsin, I would live in my USSR country, but now I have to live here, in the territory temporarily occupied by gangster-oligarchic nationalists. But this is my land, and why should I cede it to gang-oligarchic nationalists from a neighboring country?
  36. Skavron
    -1
    29 January 2013 14: 28
    Now I rummaged through a bunch of publications, but I did not find the terms and conditions for Ukraine. Well, about joining the vehicle.
    Where and how, in what documents, if official links are possible ...
    And then this is all boltology, what are we all doing now.
    That is exactly what it would be said that "in the case of Ukraine joining the CU, gas will be at such and such a price at such and such a time ..."
  37. Andof odessa
    +3
    29 January 2013 14: 42
    You know, dear, sometimes looking at my rydnu nenko Ukraine I turn yellow-blue with shame. What radishes are in our power. Greedy, and cowardly. Almost everyone sold and defeated what they could. BUT Looking at our younger but big brother, I have questions. Why are there so many among them who are confident in their undeniable correctness and so few are ready to admit their mistakes.
    1. In setting the fundamental task, Ukraine will be able to ensure energy independence. Yes, in many ways this will undermine those industries that are sold to our oligarchs, and it is precisely because of this that bargaining is underway. not safety of the population but profit, and it should be noted that what does not kill us completely makes us stronger than once verified.
    2. In the behavior of Russia, I see (although this may be paranoia) an attempt to push through not only the gas transportation system of Ukraine but also the chemical industry as a competitor.
    3. In many ways, the industry that we were proud of in 90 is preserved, well-worn, tortured, and unpresentable. and moreover, in conditions that are much more complicated than Russian ones. You always had a huge domestic market, the fact that in many ways you sold it to other countries and not to your manufacturers is another question.
    4. The request not to be offended, but Russia's behavior resembles the behavior of a self-confident lucky man. He won a million (oil and gas) in the grandmother's lottery, he is on a horse, he has a new facade of the house with 2-headed eagles (the water supply and sewerage are old, why can’t you see them) and he believes that the neighbors owe him that the brothers are all adults and each younger one for himself is cunning, but within the limits of what is permitted to him, and the older one is made, worthless luck on my side means it is necessary to act according to mine.
    1. Misantrop
      +4
      29 January 2013 15: 48
      Quote: AndofOdessa
      The request is not to be offended, but the behavior of Russia resembles the behavior of a self-confident lucky man.

      Alas, but even more this is similar to the behavior of just Ukraine. He has privatized the front door to the shared apartment and wants to have it from everyone living. Yes, so that to do nothing more, but enough for life wink
  38. Dipsy
    +7
    29 January 2013 15: 25
    What are you talking about?
    From the beginning of the 21st century, Ukraine faces a dilemma:
    with or without Russia (solostrana or eurovectors)
    Consequently, Ukraine receives economic preferences with Russia, or purely economic relations without Russia.
    Svidomonezalezny politicians have already played out with the pipe, Russia invests in the construction of the South and Nord Stream pays for the repair and modernization of gas stations in Belarus (economy, jobs). The country is losing and will lose billions of dollars, and this is with a deficit budget.
    Thanks to the Nazis and Russophobes, and thanks for the beeches in Georgia, I’m proud.
    1. Kievan
      -3
      29 January 2013 16: 22
      Quote: Dipsy
      or without Russia, relations are purely economic.

      predatory relationships !!! The price of 510 dollars at 350 in Germany is a robbery. But there are no fools to enter into a vehicle with robbers. Even with the idiot Yanukovych.
      Thanks to Putin and Miller. Two years ago there were a bunch of politicians who were just talking about an alliance with the Russian Federation. Everyone has been silent for a year now, or they have become Ukrainian economic nationalists.
      Train has already left...
      1. Misantrop
        +6
        29 January 2013 18: 02
        Quote: Kievite
        Everyone has been silent for a year now, or they have become Ukrainian economic nationalists.
        Train has already left...

        And he went in the wrong direction. "Take seats according to the purchased tickets" (c). Ukraine wanted to ride the ball, but ... there were controllers on the platform. I managed to catch another train. But this trip has yet to be paid ...
        1. Kievan
          -1
          29 January 2013 19: 20
          Quote: Misantrop
          Ukraine wanted to ride a ball, but ... there were controllers on the platform.

          What ball? Did you go to math in school? In Germany, 2000 km from the Russian-Ukrainian border, Russian gas costs 350 dollars, for Ukraine it costs 510 dollars on the border with the Russian Federation. Only in Ukraine the transit of 3Ds per 100km, in the EU even more. That the brains are so brainwashed by Russian propaganda that they forgot mathematics too?
          As the dolbo-commentators have already worn out, repeating like woodpeckers "Ukraine wants gas for the ball ...", "Ukraine does not want to pay the European price for gas ..."
          What do you think that no one can count?
      2. Dipsy
        +6
        29 January 2013 18: 08
        Of course he left.
        Money for the North and South Stream must be beat off somehow.
        And if it weren’t ...... then for the treasury bill the GTS would be updated to us.
        And it would be better 5 years ago to combine Naftogaz and Gazprom, even a small share would bring a lot of money.
      3. +1
        29 January 2013 19: 26
        Quote: Kievite
        ! The price of 510 dollars at 350 in Germany is a robbery

        Where did you get such numbers, can you show the link?
        As far as I know, the average price for 2012 for Ukraine was $ 417 per 1000 cubic meters, the average price for Europe was $ 450 per 1000 cubic meters. In real prices, and not the ones you posted, there is no robbery, and moreover, a 30% discount applies to this price, but no more than $ 100 per 1 cubic meters received in 2010 for extending the lease of the Black Sea Fleet base for 25 years.
        http://novosti-n.mk.ua/ukraine/read/41894.html
        1. xan
          +2
          29 January 2013 20: 13
          Rebus,
          be careful, a Kiev citizen can go brain by brain
          this is to the issue of propaganda - the whole country of U is sure that it has the most expensive gas prices
        2. Kievan
          0
          29 January 2013 22: 28
          Quote: Rebus
          and as far as I know, the average price for 2012 for Ukraine was $ 417 per 1000 cubic meters

          Twenty five again. The gas price according to the formula in the contract is 517 dollars !!! And already from this price the rent for land in the Crimea is deducted. From this price you can deduct at least 517doll for any goods or services. But this will not make gas prices zero. It only means that it is offsetting the amount of goods and services.
          Quote: Rebus
          the average price for Europe was $ 450 per 1000 cubic meters

          “The price of gas is a derivative of the quotations of a basket of oil products, which is manifested with a 6–9-month delay. Therefore, the price of gas can be predicted fairly confidently for several months in advance. According to our forecasts, based on data from the first quarter, the average price for the year will be in the range of $ 405–415 per thousand cubic meters. m. But the end of the year is still far away, and this figure can be adjusted, ”Medvedev said.

          http://economics.lb.ua/state/2012/05/29/153639_gazprom_nazval_srednyuyu_tsenu_ga
          za.html]
          We subtract from this price at least $ 60 for transit from the border with the Russian Federation to Germany and we get $ 345-355. Now we subtract 30% discount for renting a Black Sea Fleet. And we have a "European" price = 248 dollars. !!!
          Recall that Naftogaz Ukrainy predicts an average annual price for gas supplied to Ukraine at $ 440 per thousand cubic meters. m

          Not only is this a pure robbery, there are also "mathematicians" commentators who write about some kind of "ball" and get high that in the country where they live because of overpaid billions, schools (400-700) and hospitals in the districts are being closed due to overpaid billions. ...
          1. +2
            30 January 2013 18: 33
            Quote: Kievite
            But this will not make gas prices zero.

            Well, say thank you to dear Julia! Criminal cases shone for her in Russia! Have you forgotten how they announced it to the interpol-search? The lady decided to hang all her debts on the country, and she did just that, having signed such a contract! And how did she come and hang noodles on her ears, what a lucrative contract did she sign? she would have signed a large sum to save her own skin! God willing, finally the court will be on her affairs, at least some part of the money will be forced to return from the "poor sick". So what has Russia to do with it? Elementary squabbles of the oligarchs, and the people are simply incited against Russia, so as not to think that it's time to "deal specifically" with the government and all sorts of clans
            1. Kievan
              0
              31 January 2013 02: 29
              Quote: Egoza
              So where is Russia? Elementary squabbles of the oligarchs, and the people are simply turned against Russia, so as not to think that it is time to "deal specifically" with the government and all sorts of clans

              What kind of baby talk? Putin, Miller and Tymoshenko oligarchs? And the billions that are pumped into Naftogaz (a state company) do not come from our taxes? From your own words, it follows that the President of the Russian Federation, Putin, using the cases opened in the Russian Federation, forced / suggested Tymoshenko to sign a bonded contract for Ukraine.
              And after that, the RF has nothing to do with it? Do you even logically comprehend what you write? You wrote that the president of the Russian Federation is a criminal who entered into a criminal conspiracy with the criminal Tymoshenko and together inflicted damage to Ukraine in the tens of billions of dollars. And you end up with the idea that people are setting up? laughing
        3. Alexander 1958
          +1
          29 January 2013 22: 49
          Well, without a discount, it turns out just 510 dollars
  39. Stamp
    +3
    29 January 2013 16: 02
    Meanwhile:
    According to the National Bank of Ukraine, the country's balance of payments deficit in December 2012 amounted to $ 838 million, an increase of nine times compared to December 2011 ($ 93 million) and 55,5% compared to November 2012 ($ 539 million).

    “In 2012, the balance of payments deficit amounted to $ 4,2 billiond (in 2011 - $ 2,5 billion). Current account deficit in 2012 rose to $ 14,4 billion or 8% of GDP (in 2011 - $ 10,2 billion or 6,2% of GDP). The main factor behind this was the increase in the negative balance of trade in goods to $ 20,5 billion compared to $ 16,3 billion in 2011, ”the NBU said.
    http://kontrakty.ua/article/57818
    If we add here the invoice issued by Gazprom for $ 7 billion for gas shortages in 2012, the prospects are generally gloomy. One hope for the IMF and a $ 15 billion loan, although there are calls to sue Russia in Stockholm.
    Of course, the lion's share of imports drives gas to minuses. The economy is sagging.
  40. StolzSS
    -1
    29 January 2013 17: 32
    YES they correctly write to whom this yandia is needed except for the Russians right now the rogue will rebel there and join themselves to us, and not join us so that a woman with a cart is easier))
    1. Gans72
      -3
      29 January 2013 17: 37
      If the mare is lighter, then why are these cries for joining?
      1. xan
        -5
        29 January 2013 20: 38
        Quote: GANS72
        +

        for those on an armored train
        they don’t attach you, but they’re called to the vehicle. Now they’re not calling.
        who needs 40 million rogues?
        Russia needs Ukrainians who do not separate themselves from the Russian world, and Russians who accidentally land in the territory of U.
        personally you hans72 Russia does not need together with its land
        1. Gans72
          -2
          29 January 2013 20: 44
          Does Russia need Ukrainians who do not separate themselves from the Russian world? And what, have many of these moved to you from Ukraine? In the Far East, 2 million Russians, the rest are Chinese. Do you speak 40 million? It’s great.
  41. 12061973
    -2
    29 January 2013 17: 36
    It has already been two years since I moved to live from Russia in the Crimea, and over the past two years I have accumulated considerable irritation towards my compatriots. What fools they are.

    I am ready to show Russia the bill for stereotyped thinking, "MKAD" outlook and obsession with outdated political doctrines. The truth is that modern Ukraine (and the Autonomous Republic of Crimea in its composition) is not at all what Russian journalists, politicians and VIPs of all stripes imagine them to be.

    One of the basic Russian misconceptions is the desire to reunite Crimea with Russia. As if a priori, it is believed that Crimea longs for reunification. Two groups of arguments serve as the basis for such judgments. First: Khrushchev did not have the right to donate Crimea to Ukraine. Second: Russian and Russians dominate in Crimea. The Russians conquered it, defended it with blood. And in general, "give me such a pearl!"

    I also reasoned like this until I settled here. The blinkers from my eyes were torn off almost immediately, as soon as I went beyond the beach and started talking with the locals, as they say, on equal terms.

    My first discovery was that there are two styles of communication among local residents (Crimeans): "for tourists", who are sometimes called invaders behind their backs in the old fashioned way, and "for themselves". They tell Russian tourists what they, tourists, are pleased to hear. That they, the Russians, "feed the whole Crimea", that Russia is a Klondike with a high salary, that all the former Soviet republics want to go to Russia, and each individual of their residents also wants to go to Russia, because she is the mother of all peoples, and in the USSR in general life was better. Even the Crimean Tatars in the market say so.

    All these conversations set the fat-bellied holiday-maker from Russia in a complacent mood, he begins to feel himself a representative of a higher and richer civilization and behave accordingly - that is, spend money. I encountered about the same technologies in Egypt, Albania and other countries of the Soviet underbelly: "Gagarin, Putin, Kalashnikov. Ruski friendship. Ruski discount. Buy a fly-badge." And the price is called, several times higher than the real one.

    It has already been two years since I moved to live from Russia in the Crimea, and over the past two years I have accumulated considerable irritation towards my compatriots. What fools they are.

    I am ready to show Russia the bill for stereotyped thinking, "MKAD" outlook and obsession with outdated political doctrines. The truth is that modern Ukraine (and the Autonomous Republic of Crimea in its composition) is not at all what Russian journalists, politicians and VIPs of all stripes imagine them to be.

    One of the basic Russian misconceptions is the desire to reunite Crimea with Russia. As if a priori, it is believed that Crimea longs for reunification. Two groups of arguments serve as the basis for such judgments. First: Khrushchev did not have the right to donate Crimea to Ukraine. Second: Russian and Russians dominate in Crimea. The Russians conquered it, defended it with blood. And in general, "give me such a pearl!"

    I also reasoned like this until I settled here. The blinkers from my eyes were torn off almost immediately, as soon as I went beyond the beach and started talking with the locals, as they say, on equal terms.

    My first discovery was that there are two styles of communication among local residents (Crimeans): "for tourists", who are sometimes called invaders behind their backs in the old fashioned way, and "for themselves". They tell Russian tourists what they, tourists, are pleased to hear. That they, the Russians, "feed the whole Crimea", that Russia is a Klondike with a high salary, that all the former Soviet republics want to go to Russia, and each individual of their residents also wants to go to Russia, because she is the mother of all peoples, and in the USSR in general life was better. Even the Crimean Tatars in the market say so.
    1. Gans72
      -2
      29 January 2013 17: 39
      Especially in Crimea, the Crimean Tatars are waiting for Russia. Already more than one caches have been made, they are waiting.
      1. +4
        29 January 2013 19: 21
        God forbid, of course. if it happens again, we install the brain in the head and begin the analysis.
        1. Features of the Crimean terrain, as it does not contribute to the partisan movement, is difficult to hide.
        2. Partisans need the unconditional support of the local population. Partisans supported Belarus, and they controlled the districts there, supported the UPA in Western Ukraine, and it took them a long time to tinker with. There are three nationalities in Crimea (if I may say so) both from the Ukrainians and Russians, the support of the Tatars is doubtful.
        3. Amateurs always lose to specialists. There is another way, to incite the Russians and Ukrainians against the Tatars, but even the current governments will not do this, then the results of the elections will not be altered by any twists.
        4. Do you really think that all Tatars are scumbags? For me, and for many in Russia, Ahmet Khan Sultan is still an example for life.
        ps Dig the caches. In them, the potato is very well stored, only, before planting, pull out for two or three weeks, so that it sprouts.
      2. +3
        29 January 2013 20: 13
        We with the Tatars have the experience of normal coexistence, you Ukrainians can’t stand not Caucasians.
        1. Gans72
          -3
          29 January 2013 20: 38
          Well, coexist normally with "non-European" smile Why are you pulling yourself to us? stop
      3. BYRY
        0
        30 January 2013 02: 23
        Don’t worry so much for us, we will somehow solve this problem without you. Moreover, most Tatars are not against joining Russia.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +2
          30 January 2013 03: 12
          Quote: BYRY
          Moreover, most Tatars are not against joining Russia.

          Crimean Tatars and Kazan Tatars are two big differences when the question is about "joining Russia." Crimeans hate Russian chatter about "primordially Russian Crimea" and also aggressively perceive the period of being a part of the Russian Empire and the USSR.
          I communicated enough with the Crimeans, I know their history well. In general, no one is against an economic union with the main CIS countries, but if you pour a sauce called "accession to Russia" on this dish, then none of the Crimean Tatars will go for it. But what the Tatars, even the complimentary Kazakhs (who, by the way, are the authors of the Eurasian Union) will literally get into a fight if a Russian starts talking about the Eurasian Union as "joining Mother Russia." Do not substitute concepts.
    2. Misantrop
      +4
      29 January 2013 18: 12
      Quote: 12061973
      I am ready to show Russia the bill for stereotyped thinking, "MKAD" outlook and obsession with outdated political doctrines.

      Here I agree. Unless you should repeat all this twice. There are enough dumb ones here, but still the majority is able to perceive the text from the first reading wink
      The templates are really in bulk. And the main one is the desire of the Russian authorities to communicate exclusively obedient and manageable... In 102% of cases out of 100 possible, these are grant eaters who are concerned EXCLUSIVELY with the problem of getting a dough from someone who agrees to open his wallet. I will not even specify which nation representatives usurped all the seats on this show. I will only say that there is not a single person in the "Russian Cultural Center" of Simferopol. Then think for yourself ... wink
      1. xan
        +1
        29 January 2013 20: 21
        Misantrop,
        yes misanthrope, sometimes your comments are like a breath of fresh air
        the Kremlin, in my opinion, decided to join the Crimea in a different way, maybe more slowly, but more thoroughly, through impoverishment and collapse
    3. xan
      -3
      29 January 2013 20: 16
      12061973,
      where did you get from, sick?
      here such thick sketches do not roll
    4. +1
      29 January 2013 23: 45
      TROLLING IS NEEDED CAREFULLY. Your text is duplicated. The owner of the zvizdyule poses for marriage.
    5. BYRY
      0
      30 January 2013 02: 16
      From this opus, I realized that the cheldobrek did not come from Russia, but from Benderstadt. Because only they like to use the expression-occupier.
      Thickly trolling people.
      1. Kievan
        0
        30 January 2013 02: 42
        Quote: BYRY
        .Because the expression occupier likes to use only they.

        Kievans also jokingly say about newcomers. "Friday is the day of the liberation of Kiev" - from the same series.
        And the fact that all visitors for local people are always occupiers is a fact. Especially if they are rich and arrogant tourists, occupying everything for the season. It is clear that for Russians it is unpleasant to find out that this pro-Russian Crimean people is just a working imitation of a moral orgasm ...
  42. Luna
    -3
    29 January 2013 18: 21
    According to the latest official data, the forecasted reserves of the Yuzovskaya area (7,886 thousand sq. Km in the territory of Kharkov and Donetsk regions) amount to 4,054 trillion cubic meters. m. Although a year ago in the State Geological Department of Ukraine called a more moderate figure - about 2-3 trillion cubic meters. m. Significantly differ from each other and estimates of how much shale gas per year can give the specified area at the peak of its production, and when, in fact, wait for this peak. But most of all, caution in the forecasts is shown by representatives of Shell itself. So far, the front of the exploration work has been painted on them, and only after them it will be possible to judge the volumes of industrial production. In particular, at the initial stage (2013-2015), it is planned to obtain two-dimensional and three-dimensional seismic data for the Yuzovsky site and drill 15 exploration wells. If everything goes according to plan and the analyzes turn out to be good, then in 2015 pilot-industrial development of the area should begin, in 2017 - industrial production. The probability of extraction of 20 billion cubic meters. m in 2018 with such a schedule is close to zero.

    According to the PSA, the participants' shares in the project are distributed as 50:50 between Shell and its Ukrainian partner - Nadra Yuzovskaya LLC. Although this does not mean at all that capital investments and produced gas will be divided in the same proportion. The honorable but costly mission of the project operator fell on the shoulders of Shell. True, an agreement on operating activities between the British-Dutch company and Nadra Yuzovskaya has not yet been signed. After Davos, there were still several controversial issues regarding the distribution of future shale dividends. The main stumbling block is how to determine when a project's payback period ends. Shell's point of view: the longer, the better. Indeed, at the payback stage, it will take 69% of the produced gas. At the peak of production, its portion, according to Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Boyko, may even decrease to 40%. However, the remaining 60% is not entirely correct to call the state share, as officials say.

    http://minprom.ua/articles/114767.html
  43. wax
    +1
    29 January 2013 18: 37
    Relatively Crimean Affiliation Catherine the Second Manifesto
    http://kro-krim.narod.ru/ZAKON/manifest.htm
    we decided to take our Crimean peninsula, Taman Island and the entire Kuban side under power.
    By returning to the inhabitants of those places by the power of our Imperial Manifesto such a change of being, we promise to sacredly and unwaveringly for ourselves and the successors of our throne, to keep them on a par with the natural principles of our subjects, to protect and protect their faces, property, temples and the natural faith, with which we can freely send all legal rituals will be inviolable; and finally allow each of them to state all the charms and advantages that they use in Russia; on the contrary, we demand and expect from the gratitude of our new subjects that we, in their happy contempt from insurrection and disorder into the world, peace and law and order, will be dragged away by fidelity, diligence and well-being to be likened to our ancient subjects and deserve our royal mercy and bounty along with them.
    It was given in the throne of Our city of St. Peter, on April 8, the day after Christmas 1783, and Our state was in the twenty-first summer.
    CATHERINE II
  44. Skavron
    -1
    29 January 2013 18: 44
    I re-read the comments and I had another rather significant question:
    And what is the economic benefit for Russia from Ukraine joining the CU?
    It would seem that they (it means us) have to sell gas cheaper, the old gas transmission system requires modernization, i.e. investments and not small, but here it is already sowing. the stream is ready and the south, Putin said that they would build in ANY case. And then you still have to cancel duties and, for example, Ukrainian equipment for gold mining (which Russia needs so much now) will become cheaper. And this is a blow to Russian manufacturers. And the Ukrainian confectionery has already started growing. market, but how much cheaper, who will take Russian chocolate? Patriots?
    Well, this may not be entirely successful examples, but nonetheless ...
    I would like to hear the answers.
    PS By the way, that no one has found in the network of clauses of the agreement on Ukraine’s entry into the Customs Union ???
    1. Gans72
      -1
      29 January 2013 19: 37
      I forgot about our beer. Yes, and our lard in Russia is very respected.
      1. +2
        29 January 2013 20: 02
        You forget that it’s better to let the Slavs brothers earn money than the Anglo-Saxons and Chinese
        1. Gans72
          0
          29 January 2013 20: 12
          You, too, forget that when one brother, a Slav, began to put pressure on another, then it turned out to be mochilo, and no one did more harm to the Slavs than the Slavs themselves.
          So force Ukraine to unite, force. Only you set up against yourself. For any action, creates opposition.
          1. +5
            29 January 2013 20: 19
            You were given a life of 20 years in a buzz for 50 bucks a cubic meter of gas, now please pay. As the soul or body says, we don’t need your ass, it’s only a geyvrop, so there’s something else. Or do you want to eat a fish and ... sit down?
            1. Gans72
              -4
              29 January 2013 20: 30