Military Review

After the fracture test. Military missions must be returned to production

37
After the fracture test. Military missions must be returned to productionAfter serving and working in the system of military missions of the Ministry of Defense of the USSR and the Russian Federation for more than 45 years and consistently occupying all officer positions from junior military representative to the head of military representation and authorized chief of armaments of the Air Force, I could not calmly look at the army general Anatoly Serdyukov and army general Nikolai Makarov attempts to collapse, as I believe, a well-established mechanism of military control over the quality of weapons and military equipment.


I am sincerely grateful to the editorial board of the Independent Military Review weekly, who considered it possible to place on the pages of her publication materials on the purposeful and systematic collapse of the military control mechanism for the quality of weapons and military equipment (NVO 26 from 31.07.09, NVN 8 from 05.03.10) and other materials. In connection with the removal from office of Serdyukov and the dismissal of Makarov and, most importantly, in connection with the appointment to the post of defense minister of a military man, Army General Sergei Shoigu appeared, it seems to me, the hope for a revival from the ashes of military missions. I want to believe that the necessary measures will be taken to ensure proper military control over the creation and production of weapons and military equipment and to recreate the prestige of service and work in the system of military missions.

HOW DESTROYED CONTROL

Beginning with 2009, the General Headquarters of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, following the instructions of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, issued four directives providing for numerous organizational and staff activities at military missions, which resulted in a reduction in the number of military missions, a decrease in military quality control of military products and a fall prestige of service and work in the system of military missions.

According to the Directive 23 of March 2009 of the year No. 314 / 9 / 1000, the military missions of the first and second categories should have two officers each, the military missions of the third category - one officer each with a simultaneous reduction in the number of civilian personnel. The absurdity of the said directive was so obvious that already on March 27, that is, three days after its signing, the directive was suspended.

According to the Directive of 27 in November 2009 of the year No. 314 / 9 / 5070, official salaries were reduced at military missions and military ranks were reduced for all officer posts of military missions. It should be noted that, according to the Constitution of the Russian Federation, the publication of laws (and the directive of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in relation to military personnel has the provision of the law) is not allowed, derogating the rights and freedoms of citizens. As a result, earlier in the Russian Federation official salaries and military ranks did not decrease, but only repeatedly increased.

According to the Directive 25 of December 2010 of the year No. 314 / 9 / 1193, all military missions were reorganized into new states with a reduction in the number of military and civilian personnel. After the implementation of this directive, the legal status of military missions changed fundamentally. The name “territorial” was added to the name of a few of them. The remaining military missions were included (in the number of 20 and more) in each of the "territorial" military missions as "structural units" and in fact lost their independence.

According to the Directive 1 of April 2011 of the year No. 314 / 9 / 1547, hundreds of military missions have been liquidated (disbanded) with military control imposed on small departments (groups) included in territorial military missions. At the same time, according to this directive, organizational measures were carried out related to the reduction of the total number of military personnel and civilian personnel of military missions and the departments (groups) included in their staff on average three times.

After the implementation of all these directives and the global reduction in the number of military personnel and civilian personnel, the fulfillment of the tasks of proper military control over the creation and production of weapons and military equipment for many military missions of the Russian Defense Ministry became simply impossible.

FOR WHOM THE ORDER IS NOT ORDER

The media (in particular, the weekly Independent Military Review) repeatedly raised the issue of the need to prevent the collapse of the military control system over the creation and production of weapons and military equipment. But the leadership of the Ministry of Defense ignored these publications.

In August 2012 of the year, Russian President Vladimir Putin, speaking at a plenary meeting of the Federation Council, said that it was necessary to go back and restore the previously existing system of military missions. According to the head of state, this will provide an opportunity to ensure effective management of the quality of military products. “As for the military acceptance, it was simply eliminated almost as a class, which is bad,” said the head of state. "It needs to be restored, because without an effective, functioning, functioning military acceptance, we will have big problems with the quality of military equipment," the president stressed. After such statements by the head of state, the article “Revival from the Ashes.” Was published in the Independent Military Review. The Ministry of Defense will return military representatives to the enterprises ”(“ NVO ”No. 28 from 03.08. 12). However, neither the “civilian” Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov, nor the chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the “secret” hero of Russia Nikolai Makarov, took any effective measures to restore the military missions, in effect ignoring the instructions of the President.

Personally, I am not surprised by such actions of senior officials of the Ministry of Defense. After all, Serdyukov, being not only a civilian man, but not knowing, as I am sure, the process of creating and manufacturing weapons and military equipment, simply did not represent and did not understand the importance and necessity of military control. As for the chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, then, as I know for certain, Makarov, being still the first deputy minister of defense - chief of armaments, once said: “My deputy chairman will come and receive everything he needs without military representatives.”

In connection with the appointment of a military man to the post of Minister of Defense, there was hope for the restoration of effective military control at the same high level. It seems to me that the ideal solution for this would be to restore the system of military control over the development and production of military products, which acquired its final appearance and effectively operated in the Soviet Union. At that time, in each form and in most branches of the Armed Forces, there were “their” ordering directorates, “their” military missions subordinate to one or another thematic department of ordering agencies, “their own” departments (in the Air Force - service) of control and personnel of military missions.

RUSSIAN QUESTION: WHAT TO DO?

I understand that for the implementation of these proposals will require a deep study, time and "general" solution at the highest level. Therefore, the following activities would be considered the most realistic and top-priority.

1. Recognition of the erroneous publication and implementation of the directives of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

2. Restoration, as was the case before, of independent military missions in design bureaus (research institutes) developing weapons and military equipment, and at industrial enterprises manufacturing weapons and equipment instead of departments (groups) belonging to territorial military missions.

3. Renaming of territorial military missions to military missions with the exclusion of divisions (groups) from their staffs.

4. Increase in the number of military personnel and civilian personnel of military missions to the level that existed before, within the limits of the number established by presidential decree of 22 of April 2011 of the year No. 504.

5. The resumption of the practice of dislocation at enterprises - co-executives of branches of military missions with submission to their head military representation.

6. Consideration of the need for the deployment of military missions in enterprises engaged in the repair of weapons and military equipment, primarily in aircraft repair enterprises.

7. Raising military ranks for officer positions, primarily for positions of heads of military missions. I propose to establish the following military ranks for the heads of military missions (by analogy with the previously existing ones):

- for the chiefs of the head military missions of the first category - “colonel”;

- for other heads of military missions of the first category and heads of military missions of the second category - “lieutenant colonel”;

- for the commanders of the third category military missions - “Major”

8. Recognition of the inexpedient appointment of officers to military offices of civilians, whose work will be regulated by the Labor Code of the Russian Federation. The presence in the military missions of military personnel guarantees the stability of the military team and continuity in their activities.

9. The resumption of the practice of concluding contracts with the most deserving officers of military missions after they reach the age limit in military service. To consider the long-term service of military personnel in one military representation as a positive factor.

10. Appointment to the post of head of the Office of Military Missions only on a competitive basis, as a rule, from among the most worthy heads of the head military missions stationed in design bureaus, developing weapons and military equipment complexes, and at the head enterprises of the industry manufacturing these complexes.

11. Consideration of the possibility of establishing tariff discharges for posts of military personnel of military missions in amounts that were in force until the implementation of the above directives of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

12. The decision in the coming months to increase the salaries of the civilian personnel of military missions in order to preserve stable labor collectives. At present, the civilian personnel of military missions receives less than employees of the technical control departments of enterprises. After a significant increase in the salaries of military personnel from 1 in January 2012, the salary of even the leading specialist of the first category military office (the “highest” position for civilian personnel), who has accumulated many years of experience, was two times less than who knows the basics of military knowledge. The low salaries of the civilian personnel of military missions are the main cause of staff turnover and the lack of candidates for employment.

13. Inclusion in the duties of military missions is the consideration and coordination by them, if necessary, and under special instructions only of the labor intensity of the development and manufacture of controlled military products. I believe that it is unrealistic to demand that military missions review and agree on the cost of developing and manufacturing controlled military products in a market economy (that is, in the absence of list prices, including materials, purchased products).

I would like to hope that the Ministry of Defense will listen to these proposals and take measures to ensure proper military control over the creation and production of weapons and military equipment.
Author:
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37 comments
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  1. Olaf555
    Olaf555 28 January 2013 13: 23
    11
    It seems that after the "reforms" of the chief military furniture maker, the building of the Russian army will creak and sway for a long time. On trial "Buratino!" angry
    1. S_mirnov
      S_mirnov 28 January 2013 18: 44
      +3
      Mebelshik is nothing more than a scapegoat, "reforms" ie. the destruction of our army has been going on since the days of Humpbacked! It is possible to put at least crowds of military controllers at zodods, but given the general systemic defeat of the state by corruption, this will not give results! It is necessary to clean out the entire gadyushnik from the very top, from below this problem cannot be cut!
      All practical advice of the author of the article makes sense only despite the fact that honest people are at the head of the state, and there are none!
      1. Frigate
        Frigate 28 January 2013 19: 08
        +1
        Quote: S_mirnov

        Mebelshik is nothing more than a scapegoat, "reforms" ie. the destruction of our army has been going on since the days of Humpbacked! It is possible to put at least crowds of military controllers at zodods, but given the general systemic defeat of the state by corruption, this will not give results! It is necessary to clean out the entire gadyushnik from the very top, from below this problem cannot be cut!
        All practical advice of the author of the article makes sense only despite the fact that honest people are at the head of the state, and there are none!

        Plus. A healthy and objective answer
      2. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 28 January 2013 23: 18
        0
        S_mirnov,
        Having noticed!
        Quote: S_mirnov
        honest people

        And where to get them? We all steal, sovereign!

        We all hack (well, not all, not all) but a lot!

        W / W worked and worked well!

        Here dermocrats, radicals, etc. do not shut their mouths of honor!
        The laws are tougher and everything will work out.
        Fish rots from the head - invented for the collapse of the USSR

        from the tail all the problems, from the tail!
  2. anchonsha
    anchonsha 28 January 2013 13: 31
    +3
    Well, Taburetkin is not the only one to blame for what happened to the army. Where was the Council under the Minister of Defense, what did he do? Where was the Presidential Security Council? After all, it’s not in vain that the saying goes: our shirt is closer to the body. Whatever a patriot is at the defense industry enterprise, he is the same director, and in the absence of control and poor state procurement, there will always be sawflies and money sharing.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 28 January 2013 20: 57
      0
      Quote: anchonsha
      Well, Taburetkin is not the only one to blame for what happened to the army. Where was the Council under the Minister of Defense, what did he do? Where was the Presidential Security Council?

      Yes, he is far from alone. But this does not relieve him of responsibility for accepted specifically to them solutions. Especially if he fails to prove that he acted in this case on the direct instructions of the immediate superiors. Proves - not to blame, does not prove - please reply
  3. SEM
    SEM 28 January 2013 13: 32
    +2
    I agree I need a fair court revealing all the dark cases !!! There is no way to justify the collapse of the army and nullify the production and development of weapons, reduce cool specialists and throw them on the street. All this still comes around all over Russia and more than once.
  4. maximus
    maximus 28 January 2013 13: 34
    +1
    Let's hope that no more "upholsterers", "assimilators" and the like will appear!
  5. zanoza
    zanoza 28 January 2013 13: 35
    +2
    Military representative at the factory performing a military order - that was the person dear.
    Return to the institute of military missions of the Ministry of Defense, directly at the enterprises, I consider reasonable.
    How it will be: on an ongoing basis or a long trip, experts decide. But control, in the current conditions, is needed, otherwise proven equipment and weapons fail, the same acceleration units fail due to marriage.
  6. APASUS
    APASUS 28 January 2013 13: 50
    +4
    Actually, I’m not surprised that after a few years Serdyukov will pop up somewhere in Mauritius with a US passport and a round sum on the account!
    His actions in many things directly show interest in the collapse !!
    1. sergo0000
      sergo0000 28 January 2013 17: 40
      0
      APASUS,
      Nothing! There is an ice ax for him too! am
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 28 January 2013 19: 27
        0
        Quote: sergo0000
        Nothing! There is an ice ax for him too!

        Not found!
        School is lost, but now they are going to spies for the sake of a career!
        How to inherit in London !! could not leave Qatar !!
  7. Byordovvv1
    Byordovvv1 28 January 2013 13: 54
    +1
    I believe that it is unrealistic to demand from military missions the consideration and approval by them of the cost of developing and manufacturing controlled military products in a market economy (that is, in the absence of list prices, including for materials and purchased products).
    I believe that it is necessary to monitor the pricing of products (products) precisely in a market economy.
  8. rus_ak_93
    rus_ak_93 28 January 2013 14: 03
    +1
    all actions and orders of the "former" should be regarded primarily as the country's security, and then cost and expediency. and all over it turns out he systematically destroyed the defenses under the guise of saving funds. from this it follows that Stooltkin and others like him are ordinary traitors and saboteurs. it is a pity that the death penalty is prohibited here.
  9. Ustin
    Ustin 28 January 2013 14: 22
    +3
    Good afternoon, everyone! I read the article and the comments to it. Everything seems to be correct, only one question: “Where were such“ principled ”gentlemen before?” Serdyukov, Makarov and other, in principle, performers who reformed the structure as they understood it, and people, having worked in this system for more than a dozen years, knowing what this can lead to, they were helped in this. In different ways, who was silent, and who openly welcomed the "reformist" ideas, and who "stupidly" followed the instructions from above (by the way, there are most of them. And the excuse "reinforced concrete" - they say we are military people. .) And decided, and addressed. This is a separate story. And now, after the resignation of Serdyukov, the veil was removed from everyone's eyes, a mass enlightenment has come! Somehow all this is not beautiful. One can only agree with the reformers that the structure of the Military Acceptances needs to be changed. What was the norm 50 years ago is now far from an axiom. And the composition of the Military Acceptances of the modern formation is very far from ideal. Many got there, not only not in their specialty, but also did not pass service in combat units. However, to destroy the old without creating a new one for replacement is our signature technique, which in principle happened. Only those who could adapt survived, and this is not means that the best. Now increase or not increase personnel, raise pay and military ranks, the effect will be insignificant. It is necessary to create a System, take all the good from the "old" (and there were not bad principles) and adapt it to modern conditions.
    1. Homo
      Homo 28 January 2013 14: 39
      +1
      Ustin, I already wrote something about this! WHERE WERE WE ALL WHEN THE EBN DESTROYED THE COUNTRY ??? When they did not give a damn about the opinion of the people (at the referendum the people spoke in favor of preserving the USSR), when they sold everything for the "hillock" (from steam locomotives to rocket technologies), when they closed production, when all the most profitable enterprises went bankrupt? You should not now make a claim to a person who decided to express everything that hurt. Now you even now have the courage just to "run over" a person who cannot answer you!
      1. Ustin
        Ustin 28 January 2013 15: 56
        +2
        At that time I was at my native plant, which we, working at this enterprise, did not allow us to buy up and squander. By the way, I consider this the most important thing in my life and believe me it was not at all easy in the nineties. However, they did not "caved in" and today the plant is alive and will live. It may be small on a national scale, but for a city-forming enterprise, the goal is quite worthy. Regarding the "painful", now when Serdyukov was dismissed, only the lazy one did not "feel painful", and when he was in power, the Chairman of the Government for some reason kept quiet about him With regard to Acceptances, I have been working with them for over 30 years and have seen different and different, therefore I say that the half measures proposed by the author, alas, will not change the situation. Like Homo ...
    2. military
      military 28 January 2013 14: 40
      +2
      Ustin,
      Quote: Ustin
      And the composition of the Military Acceptance of the modern formation is very far from ideal. Many got there not only not in their specialty, but also did not pass service in combat units

      At one time I was taught that the military representative is not a profession, but a way of thinking ... winked
      1. Ustin
        Ustin 28 January 2013 16: 03
        +1
        I agree. I was lucky to meet such Spets, especially in the generation of the 70s, 80s. I learned a lot from them. It’s a pity that they are gradually disappearing.
      2. sniper
        sniper 28 January 2013 16: 05
        0
        In my opinion, this is a very correct article ... Without VP, I cannot imagine the work of the military-industrial complex, all the same, under the Union, no fools were debugging the system and it worked and did not fail. Quality control is relevant for any production, but it’s silly to talk about the military-industrial complex. Once the VP asterisk was steeper than the quality mark ...
        1. Ustin
          Ustin 28 January 2013 16: 51
          0
          At our enterprise, Acceptance did not disappear, just when the number of military representatives began to be reduced, an erroneous decision was made on the spot — to increase the number of presentations per unit of production in secret, hoping that the states would be kept then. This is done simply - a letter from the Head of the Representative Office to the Chief Controller, according to the situation, we accept this without objection - we have increased it, but the staff has reduced it three times anyway. So it turned out that the rest had to just spend the night at the Plant for months, which by the way has happened in the last three years. I don’t think that the quality of this has improved, but the malfunctions have gone serious, well, the person is not able to work without rest and often without sleep for days. They can’t turn everything back, and suddenly they think that they were following the industry. So the situation however ...
        2. military
          military 29 January 2013 09: 45
          0
          Quote: sniper
          Once the VP asterisk was steeper than the quality mark ...

          I did not find the "star" ... for twenty years I used a numbered "diamond" ... wink
  10. military
    military 28 January 2013 14: 30
    +1
    Quote: Byordovvv1
    I believe that it is unrealistic to demand from military missions the consideration and approval by them of the cost of developing and manufacturing controlled military products in a market economy (that is, in the absence of list prices, including for materials and purchased products) ....

    There have been no list prices for twenty years already ... which didn’t prevent VP from participating in the pricing of defense products - agree on the level of overhead costs attributable to orders through the Moscow Region, check the actual costs of the contractors, analyze the planned and reporting estimates with the issuance of conclusions, cut off economically unreasonable costs ...
    and, by the way, the "reanimation" of the activities of the EP in this direction is already taking place - at least according to the latest directive of the UVP MO dated 17.01.2012, No.
    depressing only one thing ... at one time the curtailment of the economic work of the EaP was explained by the large-scale layoffs of the staff ... today these functions are returned without increasing the staff structure ... many former colleagues quite reasonably believe that due to recent events this is due solely to the desire of the UWEA MO to have an "extreme" in case of a big nix ...
    Quote: Byordovvv1
    I believe that it is necessary to monitor the pricing of products (products) precisely in a market economy.

    this is a no brainer ... but then what about the thesis of "unreality" ...
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 28 January 2013 14: 40
      +4
      military,

      Interesting material on state defense order for 2013 was fished out by Denis Mokrushin. Of course, only open positions are presented. so

      Sports weapons complete with cartridges and special property according to the list - for 1 rubles (!). There is no list of what kind of weapon, but last time sniper rifles and property to them appeared under this wording.
      - Unguided rockets for the TOS-1 heavy flamethrower system. Here, the price for 1 pc is just curious. - 397 600 rubles.
      - The combat vehicle upgraded BMD-4M. 10 cars at 60 rubles per unit.
      - An armored personnel carrier, a multipurpose landing assault modernized BTR-MDM. 10 cars at 32 rubles per unit.
      - Tactical protected multipurpose vehicle "Typhoon-U" and its modifications. 30 cars with a total cost of 1 rubles.
      - Autonomous field camp / closed-loop camp. So I understand that we are talking about a German field camp. 9 sets for 500 million rubles.
      - Multipurpose helicopter AW139. 7 pieces with a total value of 630 rubles (there may be a mistake in the document and this costs 000 helicopter).
      - Aircraft An-140. 3 units for 1 rubles.
      - Project 1135 - "Pytlivy" patrol ship, "Ladny" - repairs due to technical condition. Will be repaired for 500 rubles.
      - Overhaul of the BMD-2 landing combat vehicle. 34 units for 177 939 700 rubles.
      - Overhaul of the BMP-2 infantry fighting vehicle with modernization (with the installation of a R-168 radio station and a hardware-software complex of internal equipment
      communication and switching). 145 units for 1 rubles.
      - Overhaul of armored personnel carriers BTR-D, BTR-ZD, BTR-RD. 30 units for 133 485 000 rubles.
      - Overhaul of the armored repair and recovery vehicle BREM-1. 30 units for 529 965 800 rubles.
      - Overhaul of the MT-LB (V) tracked tractor transporters with the modernization and installation of the "Kord" machine gun (6P49 products) and the R-168 radio station. 105 units for 812 rubles.
      - The average repair of infantry fighting vehicles BMP-3. 15 units for 270 million rubles.
      - The average repair of T-90 tanks and their modifications. 15 units for 337 545 000 rubles.
      - Technical supervision of a special armored vehicle with a lifting capacity of up to 2,5 t type IVECO modification 65E19WM (LMV). Unknown number of units for 12 million rubles.
      - Technical supervision of the special vehicle GAZ-233014 "Tiger" (GAZ-233114 "Tiger-M"). Unknown number of units for 10 rubles.
      - Overhaul of engineering vehicles of IMR-2 barrage. 58 units for 279 531 000 rubles.
      - Overhaul of pit machines MDK-3. 23 units for 195 rubles.
      - Overhaul of floating tracked conveyors PTS-2. 61 units for 211 975 000 rubles.
      - Overhaul of the UR-77 mine clearance unit. 32 units for 72 rubles.
      - Overhaul with the modernization of the BMD-1 airborne combat vehicle with the reduction of the BMD-2. 145 units for 2 rubles.
      - Overhaul with modernization of the T-72B (T-72B1) tanks. 101 units for 5 300 009 300 rubles.
      - Research Platform-BMMP - Research on the creation of a promising BMMP platform for naval units.
      - OKR Corvette OVR - Creation of a ship for the protection of the water area of ​​a new project with a displacement of not more than 2000 tons.
      - Satellite communications stations R-441-OV. Purchase of 11 units for 470 851 800 rubles.
      - R-423PM - small-sized tropospheric communication stations. Purchase of 58 sets for 411 million rubles.

      Multipurpose helicopter AW139. 7 pieces - interested in the plan of Iveco and Mistrals who are vigorously discussing. Struck by the amount of the order for "sporting weapons" Why would?
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 28 January 2013 14: 48
        +1
        Quote: Ascetic
        Multipurpose helicopter AW139. 7 pieces - interested in the plan of Iveco and Mistrals who are vigorously discussing. Struck by the amount of the order for "sporting weapons" Why would?

        hi Stanislav, well, there are a lot of generals, sniper rifles and cartridges need a lot too. They all have to go hunting, and there ............ The whole retinue, prosecutors, chief of the FSB, beginning. cops, deputies, mayors, governors and everyone wants to shoot hi
        1. valokordin
          valokordin 28 January 2013 15: 47
          0
          And at the rest house "Zhitnoe" to catch fish more abruptly than ministers.
      2. webdog
        webdog 28 January 2013 15: 09
        0
        Ascetic, "sporting weapon" is a weapon and means for special. units ...
        just a cipher.
        I think so.
      3. military
        military 28 January 2013 15: 38
        +1
        Ascetic, hi
        somewhere I have already come across a similar list ... I may be mistaken, but in my opinion, these are the maximum "tender" prices for the listed items ...
        Considering that the role of the VP MO in the formation of GOZ-2013 was artificially minimized, from personal experience I can only assume that the thickness of the layer of "bacon" is from 10 to 30% (at one time I witnessed a "curiosity" when the factory took the conclusion to the capital The VP for the TFC project for a certain amount of work, and the next day the CWP received an unspoken "instruction" from the memory to increase the amount of funding by 20% urgently and redraw the "piece of paper" ... moreover, the event took place at a time when economic work has been imputed to the IP in full ... so what to expect in the "golden age of the stool" ...? request ) drinks
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 28 January 2013 16: 38
          +2
          military,

          Very big "opportunities" for interested persons, and on both sides, are opened by such articles as medium and major repairs, of which there are many in the list. Install the radio station and the PAK complex on 145 BMP-2 vehicles for 1.5 trillion. rubles are cool. More than 10 million. on one BMP.
          1. military
            military 28 January 2013 17: 15
            +1
            Quote: Ascetic
            1.5 trillion ruble

            1,5 billion repeat By the way, overhaul of BREM-1 per unit is XNUMX times more expensive even without r / st and PAK request
            but in fact I absolutely agree ... "overhaul" is a Klondike ... Eldorado ... drinks
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 28 January 2013 17: 48
              +2
              military,


              Yes, I got confused in the zeros, here next to the work calculations with the same zeros lie, I agree, a million on the BMP is still a "divine" cut, It's time to change the location winked
  11. andrei. 2012
    andrei. 2012 28 January 2013 14: 38
    +2
    It’s just to return the GOST system and the quality control departments to the enterprises and that they are fully responsible for each signature according to the current legislation. And it’s not necessary to put this position as a major or even higher. Competent civil engineers will do the same. And pay them a decent salary.
    1. military
      military 28 January 2013 15: 55
      +1
      Quote: andrei.2012
      It is simple to return the GOST system and the quality control departments to the enterprises and to ensure that they are fully responsible for each signature according to the current legislation.And it is not necessary to put on this position a major or even higher.Competent civil engineers will cope with this, and pay them a decent salary for this.

      - the system of GOSTs (SRPPP VT, Moroz-6, Climate-7, etc.) has not been canceled - it lives and thrives ...
      - Quality control department at enterprises claiming to participate in the implementation of the state defense order - the condition is strictly mandatory (otherwise they simply will not talk to you) ... its availability is directly or indirectly regulated by GOST RV 15.307 and GOST RV 15.002, etc. etc.
      - "Major, or even higher ..." in the Quality Control Department - it's cool ... laughing military positions in such a structure were initially only available at repair plants and bases that were directly part of the Ministry of Defense (where the enterprise was headed by a "general") ...
      by the way, in the regional acceptance of 2 categories (of which, in addition to Moscow and St. Petersburg, today there is 1 per region), the SDK "major" today corresponds to the position of the head of a separate territorial department (the rest of the once independent acceptance of the region have been reformed into those) ... winked
  12. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 28 January 2013 18: 56
    +2
    Anyone who has not worked in the VP cannot reason on the principle of OBS. There is a lot of negativeness in the work of the EP, but recently it has been caused by orders and directives of the RF Ministry of Defense, which was headed by well-known bosses. It was necessary to change the work of the EP, but to change, and not to eliminate it. Quality control department at the plant is subordinate to the director, he also pays salary. So OTK is a layer to mitigate the impact between the VP and the plant. OTC cannot do anything on its own. It was only VP and was afraid. The determination of the cost of expenditures and the price of arms and military equipment in any economy of the EaP controlled and is able to control, only who will do it now? Will Shoigu call everyone back?
    1. shurup
      shurup 28 January 2013 20: 33
      0
      He can, but he has a boss.
      I do not like the expression on the essence of the question being solved - "must be done."
      There is a more correct one - "done by me".
  13. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 28 January 2013 21: 16
    +1
    Add a little more. He worked in the VP (2 cranks with the letter M were eliminated as unnecessary), I had two bosses. And the bosses know what they are, in their 27 years of service they have seen enough — bad, dumb, cunning, thieves, and these are SMART! I’m not afraid to say it. That in the documentation, that in relations with subordinates, with bosses, with factories. Everyone could, everything was decided and always in favor of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Then it started, orders, directives, etc., etc. There are 11 people left at 3 plants. What can we talk about further!
    PS I’ve never returned to the place where I left, but would have called without thinking. Very interesting, creative work. And the military men are great, although three of them have been put at the disposal, they are not standing aside.
  14. bunta
    bunta 28 January 2013 23: 23
    +1
    Nicholas Sergeevich respect and respect. I recommend adding the following paragraph.

    "Appointment to officer positions should be made only if there is a service qualification of at least five years in the specialized troops."

    This is to weed out the sons of general. So that the military representative well knows the technique of real operation.
    1. Ustin
      Ustin 29 January 2013 02: 27
      0
      I fully support you. Previously, this was basically the case.
    2. military
      military 29 January 2013 10: 28
      0
      Quote: bunta
      Respect and respect to Nikolay Sergeevich. I recommend adding the following item. "Appointment to officer positions should be made only if there is a service qualification of at least five years in the specialized troops." This is to weed out the general's sons. So that the military representative knows well the technique for real operation.

      About respect - I agree ... soldier
      in relation to the "sons" - to no use, if there is a desire, they will always crawl through ... in addition, the prestige of service in the VP with a stool and its system of monetary incentives ("load 400" and others like it) fell below the plinth - for military representatives all this is very long time did not spread, as a result of which there were times when you could not lure individual military personnel into the states with a roll - neither after the VVUZ, nor from the same troops ...
      in terms of knowledge of technology - over the years of service I met different ... and graduates, from whom, after a couple of years of service in the VP, there was a real return, and those who came from the troops, with whom, even after five years, "oak carving" did not stop ...
      the ability to operate "technology" is not the most important thing, you can teach a monkey too ... no knowledge of "technology" acquired in the army will help you if you find yourself in, say, a military mission that controls the development and acceptance of semiconductor microcontrollers. .. or products of quantum electronics ... or the same magnetrons ... request
      the presence of other qualities is much more important - the ability to assimilate a significant amount of scientific and technical documentation and the practical application of this knowledge in everyday work, analytical thinking, the level of general technical literacy, etc. ... emphasis on military experience with a lack of knowledge is not an argument in the debate in industry ... smirks behind him will be inevitable ... and rightfully ... request
    3. igorella
      igorella 5 November 2014 19: 09
      0
      Only not 5 years, but at least 15
  15. bunta
    bunta 29 January 2013 12: 17
    +1
    Quote: military
    If you are, say, in a military mission involved in the control of the development and acceptance of semiconductor microcontrollers ..

    I was just like that. wink A civilian, though an engineer after the army, with an engineering education and on satellite control equipment.

    Quote: military
    more important is the presence of other qualities - the ability to assimilate a significant amount of scientific and technical documentation and the practical application of this knowledge in everyday work, analytical thinking, the level of general technical literacy, etc.

    And who doesn’t need such qualities? wink
    1. military
      military 29 January 2013 14: 06
      0
      Quote: bunta
      I was just like that. A civilian, though an engineer after the army, with an engineering education and on satellite control equipment.

      then you understand the essence ... wink by the way, many civilians - both GP and OS (the so-called "jackets") - in this System will give 100 points of head start to any personnel ... and this is not only my opinion ... drinks
      Quote: bunta
      And who doesn’t need such qualities?

      a question from the category of "provocative" ... I think they are still needed today, first of all, by the System itself, which was never finished off, despite all the efforts ... hi well, and of course not needed by those "managers" who have been smashing the System in recent years ... drinks