Equipment for the Ministry of Defense should be made in Russia, said Shoigu

205
Equipment for the Ministry of Defense should be made in Russia, said Shoigu


RIA News. Russian plants must be prepared for large orders from the Ministry of Defense, since the equipment needed to rearm the army will be purchased abroad only if hopes for Russian companies run out, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said in an interview with the Vesti TV program on Saturday Russia".

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“The main message is that the state, in spite of everything, has focused and adopted an unprecedented program of re-equipment. And we must be ready to receive all these new systems and equipment,” said Shoigu.

According to the Minister of Defense, the decision to transfer orders from Oboronservis to manufacturing plants is not simple, but life has forced it.

“I would like our industry to wake up and put up real prices. As for foreign technology, I don’t want to offend anyone, but we need to support our industry. But it also has to respond to all our requirements. However, we should be economical with any amount of money. If you need to buy abroad, we will buy, but if all forces and hopes for our industry run out, "Shoigu said.

He stressed that buying equipment necessary for the defense of a country abroad is sometimes faster, but not promising. Shoigu believes that in the future it is necessary to come to the fact that the service of all defense equipment is also carried out by manufacturing plants.

"And here we are talking about a big topic, which is called a" life cycle contract "- from putting it into service and transferring it to us until disposal. This is a lot of work, because we have to transfer part of the plants of the Ministry of Defense to companies and large industrial associations that deal and science, development work, and production of equipment for us. Previously, it was done by Oboronservis. I don’t want to name specific companies, but I would like to say to them: do you earn money for the defense of the country? I understand that it should be profitable s, bonuses, but it's not many times, the same interest yet, "- said the Minister.
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    1. Quiet
      +44
      27 January 2013 08: 50
      So thinks not only Shoigu but also any sane person ... Haha to sew parachutes from a rag made in, if during an aggravation of the situation there will be an undermining of combat readiness !!! And so in all areas of the military-industrial complex !!!
      1. +27
        27 January 2013 09: 03
        The main pest was removed accordingly and the result is changing in a positive direction! smile
        1. +5
          27 January 2013 09: 43
          results??? eg?
          It's too early to talk about the results
          1. +7
            27 January 2013 13: 01
            Quote: bddrus
            It's too early to talk about the results
            The results will be, you can not doubt, but not as fast as we would like. Breaking, not building.
            1. +5
              27 January 2013 13: 47
              They said the same thing when Serdyukov came))))
              1. 0
                27 January 2013 16: 06
                Quote: mehanik27
                They said the same thing when Serdyukov came))))

                On the avatar - so young and full of life, and in thoughts - so ancient and having lost a taste for life ... Very, very sorry ...! laughing
                1. +2
                  28 January 2013 01: 11
                  Well, on the avatar, what was long ago and almost not true)))), but in my thoughts one cynicism remained ...
              2. +1
                28 January 2013 14: 42
                Quote: mehanik27
                They said the same thing when Serdyukov came))))

                But at the same time, this figure brought the Ministry of Emergencies to the level. If I am not mistaken for the first in the world! Yes I hope the army will be such! good
                1. -1
                  28 January 2013 20: 50
                  But at the same time, the wording that this figure brought the Ministry of Emergencies to the level is very foggy and ambiguous
            2. +1
              27 January 2013 16: 08
              53-Sciborskiy,
              Hail landing! hi
              Quote: 53-Sciborskiy
              Breaking, not building.

              Wisdom - proven over the centuries ...! good
          2. +3
            27 January 2013 18: 21
            Results? The system of military education. Military hospitals. Return stolen items. Cancellation of the most stupid decisions. In my opinion, a lot. And this is only the beginning. After all, Shoygu is a serious guy, not a dummy like Serdyukov. Shoigu is a patriot of his country, not a patriot of green papers.
            1. 0
              28 January 2013 01: 13
              So far, nothing cardinal has been changed. And the fact that Shoigu is a patriot is not yet much evidence.
          3. +7
            27 January 2013 19: 45
            Quote:.
            Russian factories should be ready for large orders from the Ministry of Defense



            On a military review of the mind, I dialed not otherwise
          4. +2
            27 January 2013 21: 21
            Why? With Ivek the contract was not extended? Not extended. Centauro did not buy? They didn’t.
            1. donchepano
              +1
              28 January 2013 07: 40
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              Why? With Ivek the contract was not extended? Not extended. Centauro did not buy? They didn’t.


              Serdyuk kicked out? - kicked out
        2. stasuk
          +5
          27 January 2013 10: 04
          Let's see what happens next, just remove it a little!
        3. Hunghuz
          -22
          27 January 2013 10: 40
          am The main pests dug in behind the Krimlev wall. Fuck ......))) my personal opinion) Mona on me sneak .......))))))
          1. +13
            27 January 2013 10: 57
            Quote: Hunghouse
            The main pests dug behind the Krimlev wall

            and friends not only for the Chinese, or for the Kotel, do not specify? request
            1. +4
              27 January 2013 16: 10
              Quote: Tersky
              and friends only for the Chinese, or for the Kotel, do not specify

              Victor, welcome hi
              The phrase - a complete slaughter! good Shake your hand! drinks
              1. +2
                27 January 2013 17: 42
                Quote: esaul
                Shake your hand

                Good health, Valera! Actually, nothing new has been said, but as they say, drink like that drinks
        4. +23
          27 January 2013 12: 12
          Regarding the procurement of military products abroad, I will repeat my post (no change, changes have occurred on some items)

          already as the second year we suck out, let's go this topic

          What is our big military import ??? straight just huge ??? yes
          why did we turn to military imports, and probably because in 2008 we won by number rather than technology, and for some reason the Georgians had better technology than ours, Shamanov himself said that Israeli blights fly and we can’t get them, but ours can’t even take off like a bee and so on, that the Georgian communications (harris) are better than ours, that the equipment is better, that the modernized T-72 tanks see better that there are no helicopters that can work at night and had to ask the FSB aviation who had several of these machines, that there is no interaction and our craftsmen flunked 5 of their planes (Sladkov even showed us the shot down our plane posing as a Georgian) and then, just the vaunted Georgian army turned out to be cowardly
          and the valor of our soldier as always helped out and the loss of 60 people for such a conflict is unacceptable
          and at that time under comrade Ivanov the armament program 2001-2010 was launched, the armament began for the Moscow Army and everything was excellent there, we received all the best and we don’t need anyone
          but the 2008 conflict showed that something was wrong
          so what did we buy over the hill and how many ??? I don’t remember everything

          1) English, Austrian sniper rifles for the airborne forces and special forces - why ?? by the fact that according to Shamanov the Izhmash plant is not able to produce high-quality rifles and theirs sv-98 comes at the price of imported samples and the barrel quality and accuracy are below all criticism

          2) Israeli blas - which work successfully both in India and in Poland and in the highlands, because ours have failed all the tests and the allocated 5 billion went to the wind, but the Defense Ministry under Ivanov was to blame for all this for the kickbacks to the Vega concern, which failed and could not provide the desired sample and their miracle Tippak (like) after takeoff fell 3 kilometers - and independent developers from this money received nothing
          therefore, Israeli blah-usa chose their miracle traitors will not sell us

          3) Iveco, it could be argued that the other but there weren’t any offers, and before that we had an imperfect TIGER without anti-mine protection and jambs and we all remember the Chechen company and the bombings of our columns with numerous victims
          after this, in fear of losing orders, the tiger spm2m, 6a, wolf, bear, btr-82a, etc., appeared immediately
          4) Mistral to some as an eyesore
          discussed a million times - the first such ship in the history of the Navy, with the level of equipment, and all systems in just 3 years
          with the depressing construction of our corvettes and frigates - we could build such (if we could) even with Koreans in 10 years, and now
          orders for new core-based helicopters also benefit Kumeratu and progress

          to be continued

          pictured are English l96 rifles (one of the best in their class) which arrived in the amount of 5000 units in the airborne and GRU
          1. +14
            27 January 2013 12: 16
            part 2 final

            5) all kinds of tent lacquers, training centers in the lower region and French thermal imagers and systems for aircraft do not count (by the way, when the pilots were asked to replace the French systems on their instant 29cm, they said no to guys, leave the French and schA just do not have any problems)
            By the way, 70% of our microelectronics at the import base sits

            and that’s not so much - just some do not want competition, which means improving and modifying their products like this
            no guys, let's do it right, but apart from the price tags, Shoigu said nothing else is needed - 20 trillion is a tidbit

            only for competition and the supply of our army the best samples (in the United States, purchase is impossible)
            Europe old woman - ready to share her systems and preferably create a joint venture

            It seems that everything is better for Rogozin to control the quality of the products and the pace of their production, otherwise the money has been allocated, but there are no quality complaints


            reference of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
            “The number of complaints submitted is not reduced. In 2011, 2272 complaints were received from the troops, and according to the results of the first half of 2012 - 994 complaints ”
            in 2011, military missions suspended 336 times the acceptance of final military products. According to the results of the first half of 2012, there were already 188 such facts, let's see what will happen at the end of 2012

            pictured are some of the most advanced aircraft in our MIG-29cmt air force - with French systems from Sagem-Thales
            1. DPN
              +1
              27 January 2013 14: 14
              By the way, at the expense of the French, during the war in IRAQ, not a single MIRAGE took off, How could it not have happened with the twinkles, too?
              1. +3
                27 January 2013 15: 00
                Repeat this tale again. Just for starters - a specific link to at least one intelligible source on a topic, not a city legend
            2. +1
              27 January 2013 16: 29
              Rustam,
              Rustam, welcome with pleasure! hi
              I am always pleased to read your comments - comments of the pros in helicopter aviation. And I always like your conversations with the WAF on the aviation topic - mutually respectful and highly professional.
              But, this phrase -
              Quote: Rustam
              just some do not want competition, which means improving and modifying their products like

              for me it is indicative and in tune with my thoughts. After all, had it not been for that "paraffin" of the domestic generals of the defense industry and their fears of losing a piece of the government order pie, and there was no "Tiger" that pushed like a tank through the snowdrifts and "Armata" would remain like a tankman's dream. And so - they scared the generals of the military-industrial complex and those - began to stir! And they turned their brightest eyes on the ideas of the developers, and stopped talking through the lips when agreeing on the price ... In general, the movement went ...!
              So such a shake-up is needed for the defense industry (more precisely, for the “generals” of the defense industry). There are now no administrative levers of the same force as in the Union, we have to use economic ones.
              1. +1
                27 January 2013 22: 40
                Quote: esaul
                So such a shake-up for the defense industry (more precisely, for the "generals" of the defense industry) is needed
                - few shakes - let's compete! The great Stalin, for some reason not allowing this very competition in the civilian sector, and replacing it for ideological reasons with some kind of "socialist competition" (what a miracle is, I still do not understand), in the military sector nevertheless always arranged so that there would be competition. There were even words of the annoyed Mil that it was his idea to create helicopters, and funds for their creation were allocated not only to Mil, but to some unknown Kamov! It's a shame, but time has shown that there is no alternative yet! And it's time for Poghosyan to get rid of everything that he trampled under himself and put it all on a competitive field - let them butt for that 23 trillion pie! So it will be more useful to them, better about the Russian state!
              2. 101
                101
                +1
                27 January 2013 22: 46
                So Arzamas makes the bad and expensive Tiger for 3.5 million and the Italians a good and not expensive ivek for 12.5 million Well, if you change the prices in places, what the Italians will offer us and that the Arzamas are very curious
            3. AK-47
              +2
              27 January 2013 18: 18
              Quote: Rustam
              Regarding the procurement of military products abroad

              Bravo, respect, wonderful comment.
          2. +2
            27 January 2013 18: 44
            I agree with you, on the positions of the Media, from interviews with great generals. But in principle, in terms of quantity and quality of Russian small arms (and not only) - there are no equal. - All the dirt usually floats on top. The arms business is operating according to its own rules and it is unlikely that we can influence it. Nevertheless, I support the purchase of foreign weapons (in small quantities) in order to further improve my weapons.
          3. +3
            27 January 2013 19: 57
            Quote: Rustam
            What is our big military import ??? straight just huge ???


            And what do you think only weapons to Rustam, and where are Mercedes and Volkswagen, furniture (where are you without it) for the fleet, white assembly coipes, Armor for armored personnel carriers and armored cars from Germany and the purchase of project 212 submarines from the Germans is still in the plans


            I almost bought it but didn’t ride it, the obsolescence howl raised the most powerful artillery system of the Italian 127 mm OTO-Melara (1968 model) and the French Creusot-Loire Compact (1953/1968)
        5. yak69
          +7
          27 January 2013 12: 52
          Here, it’s even scary to imagine what happened to the directorate of the military-industrial complex when L.P. Beria, when one of them would increase his salary, just like that, from the bulldo, he wanted to and increased his own bonus. Or I would not really try to improve the quality of our products. Well, to think of this is even scary!
          So tell me what prevents today from "putting on the ears" of all these scoundrels in the military-industrial complex profiting at the national expense ?? !! Do Vovan and Dimon have no authority to do this ?! Or maybe you just need a strong political will and a desire to punish every bastard who dares to put his hand into the people's pocket? !! .......
          1. +1
            27 January 2013 22: 59
            Quote: yak69
            So tell me what prevents today from "putting on the ears" of all these scoundrels in the military-industrial complex, profiting at the national expense ?? !!
            Gangster capitalism is in the way. The entire defense industry should be in state ownership, in any case, all leading enterprises.
      2. +18
        27 January 2013 09: 12
        Quote: Quiet
        So thinks not only Shoigu but also any sane person.

        Judging by the minus, on the site Serdyukov laughing
        This is the axiom of an independent state and those who question it are enemies hi
        By the way, an article for those who yelled here, give us a foreign one. Yes ph figs to you tongue
        1. +10
          27 January 2013 09: 23
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Judging by the minus, on the site Serdyukov


          Kind Utrechka Alexander.
          Straight off the tongue. Some people naminusil on quiet. But Shoigu’s words are really correct ... without the bulldozer ... Conclusion .... Serdyukov is sitting ... because of nothing to do on the Internet. laughing
          1. +1
            27 January 2013 16: 36
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            By the way, an article for those who yelled here, give us a foreign one. Yes ph figs to you

            Quote: volkan
            Straight off the tongue.

            Guys, you give specific examples. There were no patients who stood up for everything foreign with both hands ...! You will not find those other than Smir_nova, and others like him ...
            VOLKAN, Romanov has the opportunity to see who is negative. So - they are far from profane in their field ... And this, something, it means. Simply - "it is necessary to filter the bazaar", ROBATY.
            I wish you success...
        2. Quiet
          -1
          27 January 2013 09: 25
          Thanks for the (+) ...
        3. +4
          27 January 2013 10: 39
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          By the way, an article for those who yelled here, give us a foreign one. Yes ph figs to you


          Cruel In my opinion, Goncharov has a whole novel on this subject and is called beautifully - Oblomov.
          1. +5
            27 January 2013 17: 40
            Quote: vorobey
            - Oblomov.


            There is a restaurant Oblomov in Moscow, one of the few where there is real Russian cuisine, In the summer garden there is even a real Russian stove where they prepare dishes, it seems to me Sparrow had this in mind, judging by the profile picture good
        4. +3
          27 January 2013 12: 49
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Judging by the minus, on the site Serdyukov
          This is the axiom of an independent state and those who question it are enemies
          By the way, an article for those who yelled here, give us a foreign one. Yes ph figs to you

          Hello Sanya. Well, let's say so, many ships were built on the stocks of the SEF factories. So to buy one by one does not mean prodovatsya. It's easy to learn from experience. But here's what we bought more fiat and pezhiks than we can take out. And absolutely useless. By the way, everyone was shouting about blowing up donkeys. Like they're cooler than the Tiger. Are you aware that a promising active protection system for light vehicles has been brought up for 4 years already? Well, so far only in development. But damn if normal test it will be no worse than "Cora".
      3. webdog
        +11
        27 January 2013 12: 41
        arms production prices are too high (200 - 400%) to be too high to get super-profits, and at the same time not to allow the rearmament of the army within the allocated budget.
        I believe that we should not punish the manufacturer in rubles in this case, (by purchasing equipment from foreigners, as Shoigu threatens) ...
        you just need to take the factories under state control, put managers in place for the duration of the defense order.
        the order will end - to give back to the owners and take money from them for the constructed infrastructure and delivered machines ...
        pick up from one, others will throw off the prices themselves.
        scared ...
        not constitutional? Well, the war is going on. but in war as in war ...
        I think so.
        1. +1
          27 January 2013 13: 37
          Quote: webdog
          not constitutional? Well, the war is going on. but in war as in war ...
          I think so.

          I absolutely agree with you! And still need to be planted for sabotage and disruption of the state order!
        2. DmitriRazumov
          +2
          27 January 2013 14: 39
          Here you have Ukrainian tanks, it seems ...
        3. Alexander
          +5
          27 January 2013 14: 43
          Factories and so on are almost all state-owned. Just directors rarest fag * ry.
      4. 0
        27 January 2013 19: 19
        Quote: Quiet
        So considers not only Shoigu but also any sane person ..

        So we have higher MO people are not sane ..... wassat
      5. AndreyAB
        0
        28 January 2013 13: 04
        They consider it to be considered, but who will allow him, because these are such grandmas at kickbacks, and there are enough parasites.
    2. +5
      27 January 2013 08: 53
      Well done

      It is nice when the Minister of Defense expresses sound and, as a result, absolutely correct thoughts ...

      Comrade Shoigu all hope for you ...

      Or maybe in the 18th ??????
    3. Lavrik
      +6
      27 January 2013 09: 02
      I watched an interview on TV: the impression of a balanced, realistic approach to the country's defense. He sees his main task in preparing the Armed Forces for the adoption of weapons under the program of the State Defense Order.
    4. +8
      27 January 2013 09: 04
      Yes, after so many years of UGAR and TRESH in such a vital department, hearing just ADEQUATE statements is already nice. But here is whether the point of no return has been passed ... The wood was broken by Taburetkin - Mama Do not Cry.
    5. +4
      27 January 2013 09: 05
      if all the strength and hope of our industry runs out - I am not a supporter of purchasing abroad, but who would determine the terms that we will "hope"? The same Wolves, when they go, have not been tested yet? Typhoons how long will we look at beautiful photos? Destroyer I want in the end! So the new minister so far only demonstrates populist decisions - again a new uniform, footcloths, shoulder straps, stars on planes to redraw, the planes themselves to repaint in the old colors. Following the cancellation of the supply of something foreign, there should be a statement about the start of deliveries of a domestic analogue!
      1. +10
        27 January 2013 09: 59
        Quote: bddrus
        if all the strength and hopes for our industry run out - I am not a supporter of buying from abroad, but who would determine the time frame that we will "hope"? The same Wolves, when they go, have not yet been tested? Typhoons how long will we look at beautiful photos? Destroyer I want in the end! So the new minister so far only demonstrates populist decisions - again a new uniform, footcloths, shoulder straps, stars on planes to redraw, the planes themselves to repaint in the old colors. Following the cancellation of the supply of something foreign, there should be a statement about the start of deliveries of a domestic analogue!


        Apparently you think that Shoigu has a magic wand ...... once and an aircraft carrier from the right pocket, two destroyer from the left ... three ... he pulled himself up and a regiment with 400 because of his bosom ...
        Yes, here you need at least a year to clear all the shit out. But it is important for people to know that the new Minister has at least the right thoughts. That's what they support ... And what will happen next ... we'll see ..... As for the relatives in the Ministry of Emergencies .... it's like watching ...
        You can also say about the general, here is the son of the olds, there is the daughter of a lieutenant, there is the brother of his own colonel ... And what is this? Harnesses? Using position? ...... or maybe OFFICER DYNASTY?
        It all depends on the people themselves ...
        1. -1
          27 January 2013 10: 20
          What does the dynasty have to do with it - he received a general, as they say "for beautiful eyes" - Shoigu is not a military man, he did not serve. Received the title when he headed the Ministry of Emergencies. The daughter heads a subordinate institution. Or do you also think that madam, in a pancake I forgot, Luzhkov's wife is a business genius (by analogy)?
          As for the wand, you rather think so - or will the same Wolves and Typhoons only be developed under Shoigu? About destroyers - of course I was dispersed.

          I repeat - but Shoigu says almost the same thing that was declared under Serdyukov - only that I don’t remember so often on the air.
          1. +3
            27 January 2013 10: 26
            Quote: bddrus
            Why is there a dynasty - he received a general, as they say "for beautiful eyes" - Shoigu is not a military man, he did not serve.

            Firstly, I was not talking about Shoigu, but about children who are following in the footsteps of their fathers ...
            As for the beautiful eyes, I fundamentally disagree ... The person who was able to create such a necessary and effective department deserves it.

            about Luzhkovtsev-no comment. Again, you confuse the dynasties in the public service with business (that is, personal Wishlist)


            Quote: bddrus
            I repeat - but Shoigu says practically the same thing that was declared under Serdyukov - only I don’t remember so often on the air

            So you listened poorly to Serdyukov
            1. +5
              27 January 2013 13: 44
              I really didn’t listen to Serdyuk very well — I didn’t see him at all on TV — always they’ll show me all over the corner. Could you create - this is still a question - given money and said what you need - have you ever seen at least one report from the Accounts Chamber on the Ministry of Emergencies? me neither. Pnj when the minister arrives, the Ministry of Emergencies allows itself to fly by helicopter and for a triple price will buy a poster for the meeting and a stand for it, and the contractors tell me - well, if idiots pay, we will refuse. - So there simply no one checked on the topic of corruption - for their own people. But at the same time - I also credit him - the creation of the Ministry of Emergencies in the form in which we have it - all over the world in good standing. And how much it cost us, we don’t know.
            2. 0
              28 January 2013 13: 56
              He needs (Shoigu) and an effective company for laundering budget money. Because the ministry should be responsible for something, and not watch from the side, and in the case when an emergency doesn’t push everything to the local authorities.
        2. +2
          27 January 2013 10: 32
          By the way, the destroyer, I also hinted that he was not special in this, but it seems to me that being developed, as it were, pr.21956 - there is a modernized pr.956 for the 21st century, again somehow. I think the MO should issue TK for a fundamentally new destroyer (like the Amer one in the form of a futuristic pyramid - unless of course it makes sense in that pyramid)
      2. +6
        27 January 2013 10: 08
        Quote: bddrus
        but who would define the time frame that we will "hope"?

        Good morning, colleague! I don’t get into Shoigu’s advocates, but he answered your question in a secret way-
        I would like our industry to wake up and set real prices.
        , and to the industry and prices of MO, well, not by any means, with respect hi
        1. +3
          27 January 2013 10: 27
          The kindest to you too! About prices, remember, the war just under Serdyukov began between the Defense Ministry and the military-industrial complex, here I think Shoigu repeats the same thesis and, as before, I think it is true - for this, even the whole Rogozin - "specially trained" was invented
      3. 0
        27 January 2013 23: 12
        For five days, the LA-5 was one of the best WWII aircraft. So now it is necessary to raise the question before the defense industry complex, otherwise R&D can last for years.
    6. +8
      27 January 2013 09: 06
      “I don’t want to name specific companies, but I would like to tell them: who do you make money on, in the defense of the country?” - And you, Comrade Minister, do not be shy and call us these Jude - the people will know the traitors of the interests of Russia, the media will pick up, the prosecutor’s office and the investigating authorities will be interested, so look and wise up our Judas dollar !!!
      1. Quiet
        +7
        27 January 2013 09: 30
        These are people without a homeland. They only want to grab the money and flush off to one of the countries where they have a residence permit.
      2. +2
        27 January 2013 13: 50
        The prosecutor’s office and the investigating authorities already know, only the FAS team wasn’t
      3. lucidlook
        +2
        27 January 2013 14: 12
        He will not name. And no one from the entourage will name. Because they have been tied back to the dashing 90s, when they "earned" the initial capital in the same way. You can understand him ... the minister is also a man ... a mere mortal.
      4. Carat_36
        0
        27 January 2013 19: 50
        To collect "defense merchants" in one gateway, and the guys who saved people in 2008 under bullets, to them ...
        I think the problems of the industry would be quickly resolved.
    7. +4
      27 January 2013 09: 10
      It has always been that way. The army armed itself with our developments. The footwomen, but ours sewed and cut them, this is our know-how. and it’s our business to replace them with socks, but we will sew these socks ourselves.
      For Shoigu, no matter the news, everything is somehow happier in our souls, our person, and patriotism as it were added wink
      1. +1
        27 January 2013 12: 43
        Quote: krasin
        For Shoigu, no matter the news, everything is somehow happier in our souls, our man

        Shoigu showed at the previous place of work his laconicism and effectiveness. Such people are extremely valuable for public service. The credit of trust from me is definitely good
        Good luck.
        1. 0
          27 January 2013 13: 45
          Have you seen a lot of Serdyuk on TV and in interviews? but Shoigu-constantly
        2. 0
          27 January 2013 19: 23
          Shoigu showed at the previous place of work his laconicism and effectiveness.

          Did they say it on TV?
          PR steers.
      2. lucidlook
        +1
        27 January 2013 14: 16
        He speaks well and correctly. Let's see what will happen. In a year or two, it's too early now. Here it must be taken into account that he alone can do little, he needs a team of like-minded people, people who can be trusted, entrusted with complex tasks, verified. And where will he take them to the MO? Or arrange a cleaning? And it is always fraught.
        1. +4
          27 January 2013 14: 47
          And at us the Chelyabinsk school of navigators is being revived, closed 2 years ago. Already with a set for the next year have decided. In my opinion, a concrete positive step. There is still talk of a car school also being restored.
          1. 0
            27 January 2013 22: 34
            He entered it in 1984 ... Unfortunately, the 5th graph ... (((
        2. 0
          28 January 2013 14: 06
          In the Ministry of Emergencies laughing
    8. scarva
      +1
      27 January 2013 09: 10
      Literate approach, only for how long.
    9. +4
      27 January 2013 09: 14
      "Tell me, for God's sake, where were you before" (C).
      And who is responsible for the art of the former Moscow Region, which, as you know, until recently, completely suited Putin and Medvedev? Their satisfaction with the work of Mr. Serdyukov has been expressed repeatedly.
      1. 0
        27 January 2013 09: 21
        Because Serdyukov did what he was told to do, and Shoigu will do the same, but if Serdyuk was filling his pocket, the pockets of his relatives and girlfriends - punish and revealingly. And I would punish even if "Rafik is not viunov in anything."
    10. +3
      27 January 2013 09: 16
      The words are good. Now it's the turn of the matter. Let's see how everything goes.
    11. +4
      27 January 2013 09: 17
      Until Serdyukov is imprisoned, I see no reason for optimistic comments. In addition, I am sure that Serdyukov made decisions on the proposals of the same military - generals-advisers-deputies, there are more questions to the chief of staff about these decisions! And to Serdyukov, I have questions only about the so-called. "Oboronservis case" and the like
      1. +1
        27 January 2013 09: 42
        Quote: bddrus
        Until Serdyukov is imprisoned, I see no reason for optimistic comments. In addition, I am sure that Serdyukov made decisions on the proposals of the same military - generals-advisers-deputies, there are more questions to the chief of staff about these decisions! And to Serdyukov, I have questions only about the so-called. "Oboronservis case" and the like

        Judging by the proposal of Marshal Shoigu, the pendulum of the country's leadership must have swung the other way, and the statements of the president and the prime minister about the effectiveness of the former super manager of the Moscow Region are nothing more than a desire to at least justify themselves for their mistakes, and they are untouchable castes.
        1. +4
          27 January 2013 09: 49
          Already Marshal ??? oh you laughing - after the institute they didn’t even let me fly in time - I left the army as an ordinary, and this general who was not serving was appointed to the post. If Serdyukov is punished properly, then there is no need to talk about the mistake, otherwise I don’t understand why the noise was raised — if they wanted to hide it — no one would know about it.
          1. +4
            27 January 2013 10: 33
            Quote: bddrus
            Already Marshal ??? oh you ett - as if they didn’t even let me fly after the institute on time - I left as an ordinary in the army, and for this non-serving general for a post


            It seems that you have some kind of personal envy. MOE is a paramilitary agency. And in many ways similar to the MO .. In the Ministry of Emergencies, too, are fighting ....
            And I’ll say right away that I am very negative about the fact that rescuers are being poured with mud. Everywhere there are punctures and flaws. On the activities of the entire department, it does not say anything. And again, Shoigu as the creator of one of the best in the world of the Ministry of Emergencies deserves all the regalia that he wears.
            As he will show himself in the role of the Minister of Defense .... we will see ... but the beginning is positive, and the authority is sufficient so as not to hang all the dogs on a person who has nothing in the post.
            1. 0
              27 January 2013 13: 47
              I haven’t watered it with mud yet, but I didn’t appropriate the rank of Marshal, unlike you
              1. 0
                27 January 2013 16: 02
                Quote: bddrus
                I haven’t watered it with mud yet, but I didn’t appropriate the rank of Marshal, unlike you


                What makes you think that I assigned him? I sort of understand the ranks. And if you do not see what I Quoted .... so what .... look in both eyes wink
                1. 0
                  27 January 2013 18: 50
                  and whom did you quote? Something in the article I do not see marshals
                  1. 0
                    27 January 2013 22: 00
                    Quote: bddrus
                    and whom did you quote? Something in the article I do not see marshals


                    Well, we'll see
                    Quote: bddrus
                    Already Marshal ??? oh you etit


                    you won’t throw words out of a song? although if you go further, you can see that you quoted ...
                    Question .... what do I have to do with it?
                    1. 0
                      28 January 2013 05: 51
                      then to blame - I thought with the same person I say, to whom I first wrote, I confused the volcano with the red tape laughing
            2. DmitriRazumov
              +1
              27 January 2013 16: 12
              In the world, just in developed countries, such a concept as the Ministry of Emergencies is absent. In Germany, these functions are assigned mainly to the fire departments. equipped with unlike ours. In addition, the 112 system functions clearly, there is a real interaction of forces and means of various structures (police, firefighters, emergency assistance, private insurance and rescue teams). In Russia, because of the Ministry of Emergencies, Kotor. created insurmountable administrative barriers, in particular between 02 and 01 - this is impossible.
              1. 0
                27 January 2013 19: 21
                Dmitry: The Ministry of Emergencies was born not exactly in our country, under a slightly different image, under a different name, but their service is undeniable.
            3. +1
              28 January 2013 14: 17
              We are not talking about the rescuers, but we are talking about the absolutely unresponsive Ministry of Emergency Situations, which does not warn the very emergencies, and then heroically fights them!
    12. stalker
      +2
      27 January 2013 09: 21
      You think correctly Shoigu. Buying military equipment from NATO countries is like death, you need high-precision equipment, the latest machines for our defense enterprises, and they, in turn, must produce high-quality equipment for the army.
      1. +3
        27 January 2013 09: 27
        I need high-precision equipment, the latest machines for our defense enterprises - this is not one year’s time, I don’t see the danger of buying a small percentage of such equipment as a special auto - firstly, it’s small and secondly, I really hope that it will go on production in the near future our own, with which we can quickly replace the imported one. Here is something already from the weapon - there should be completely mine.
        1. vladsolo56
          +4
          27 January 2013 10: 34
          Interestingly, you were at defense enterprises, claiming that they work there on antediluvian machines? it’s not worth affirming what you don’t know about.
          1. +5
            27 January 2013 12: 18
            Quote: vladsolo56
            Interestingly, you were at defense enterprises, claiming that they work there on antediluvian machines? it’s not worth affirming what you don’t know about.


            Right. Due to circumstances, it is necessary to have contacts with the defense workers, and the money goes into the re-equipment not only through the federal target program, but also invest independently. They try to sharpen production under the dual purpose.
            1. 0
              27 January 2013 13: 51
              so I write about it - but the person speaks to himself about antediluvian machines
          2. 0
            27 January 2013 13: 50
            darling, so you are also a liar - WHERE did I SPEAK ABOUT AHEATING MACHINES? or are you talking to yourself? I said that the renewal of production, as the person in front of me said, requires considerable time, and for this period it is normal to buy imported products. but I really can’t talk about machines - I haven’t - tell me how it is there? as you understand
            1. +5
              27 January 2013 14: 36
              bddrus,
              Quote: bddrus
              I’m really not talking about machine tools. I haven’t. Tell me how it is. as you understand


              If the question is for me, sometimes it’s just enough to watch not the picture on the TV, but sometimes deep into the lead. In the topic about the rejection of Iveco gave an example of the same 172 car repair is that in the public domain. You will not be difficult to dig deeper into the net defense enterprises and find the Old.
              Over the past year, he delivered three new machines himself, this year there will be more (can I not say where?). Rostvertol. everyone remembers the leaders' statement about the restoration of the vocational education system, but no one paid attention to the machines that are there.

              I like the servants in us, you know what? The professor knows a damn thing, but teaches one thing, but the officer knows one thing, but he can teach everything.
              1. +2
                27 January 2013 15: 37
                it was not to you, but thanks. If you saw above, I wrote that modernization is where necessary, and where appropriate, then new factories are also building workshops - both with Almaz-Antey and for the production of helicopter engines. So you only strengthen me in the belief that this is really happening, and thank God.
                1. +3
                  27 January 2013 15: 45
                  Quote: bddrus
                  - as with Almaz-Antey and for the production of helicopter engines



                  absolutely true, the same thing was about the Kurganmashzavod. argued a new line to build or upgrade the old.

                  We still know how to count poorly. For some reason, no one considers dismantling, and he pulls half the money. And two lines are better than one. You can adapt an old one both for a repair plant and for a single special equipment.
          3. lucidlook
            +5
            27 January 2013 14: 33
            Look at these faces .... yes, the equipment also flickers there.

            This is "Izhmash"







            This is "Tyazhmash" (Syzran)







            Sorry that there are so many photos ... but I don’t know how else you can make it clear what is happening in the industry right now.
            1. +4
              27 January 2013 15: 05
              Quote: lucidlook
              but I don’t know how else you can make it clear what is happening in industry right now


              Well, if they produce this here ...

              CNC MACHINE SPECIALIZED TURN-SCREW CUTTER WITH HIGH PRECISION IT42 MODEL


              Or you from what enterprise have thrown pictures.

              By the way, Izhevsk lathes will be more interesting than the Chinese, only the price and equipment suffer.

              Nonprofit Educational Institution
              "TRAINING CENTER" OJSC IZHMASH "

              About Us
              Laboratory of Social Psychological Research
              Training center "VOKHR"
              Intermediary services
              News and Announcements

              here, too, the shoigu is to blame that the guys do not train specialists for themselves.
              1. Misantrop
                +6
                27 January 2013 15: 17
                In this photo, as part of the machine kit, the machine is very similar to model 16B16T1C1, except that the tailstock was also automated, and the program unit was not located in a separate cabinet, but on the machine itself. Unit of the 1st accuracy class (100 units on a scale per 1 mm of size). It’s a very smart and comfortable car, I worked for 10 years in retirement on this (in all specialties from a programmer to a sharpener at the same time)

                What is characteristic, then I saw this machine for the first time in my life. After 2 weeks, after reading the documentation, without a mentor, etc. first launched it and started working. And the fact that several people are required for his staff service, and after a few years he accidentally learned laughing But before leaving for the shift shift I had to spend 2 months (he did not have my education, alas). But he, too, was quite accustomed, now it works
              2. lucidlook
                +3
                27 January 2013 16: 26
                I will shout "Hurray!" in the forefront, when such progressive equipment of domestic production will be used everywhere. And even if it goes for export ...

                We’ll see what happens and what happens next, maybe in 2 years we’ll have a production and economic miracle and those 80% of depreciated fixed assets will be reduced by at least half. Time will tell.

                Quote: vorobey
                here, too, the shoigu is to blame that the guys do not train specialists for themselves.


                Don't ... don't exaggerate. Now it is much more important not "Who is to blame?", But "What to do?"
                1. +3
                  27 January 2013 16: 37
                  Quote: lucidlook
                  I will shout "Hurray!" in the forefront when such progressive equipment of domestic production will be used everywhere


                  Here you are patient. Just warning Build it does not break. Yes, you yourself understand this.
                  Quote: lucidlook
                  Let's see what happens and what happens next, maybe in 2 years we will have a production and economic miracle and those 80% of worn-out fixed assets will be reduced by at least half. Time will tell


                  Thought it is material. Shoigu didn’t even start working, and most of him already signed a sentence here.
                  1. sharp
                    -1
                    27 January 2013 16: 43
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Thought it is material. Shoigu didn’t even start working, and most of him already signed a sentence here.

                    The thought is yes, it is material, BUT I didn’t sign anything to Sanya, so let's see whose thought is more material!))) laughing
                  2. 0
                    27 January 2013 22: 39
                    Quote: vorobey
                    Thought it is material.


                    Well, we all really wanted the retirement of the stool ... And it happened !!! ))) so be careful guys, dreams come true! )))
              3. +4
                27 January 2013 19: 17
                Quote: vorobey
                if they produce this here ...

                CNC MACHINE SPECIALIZED TURN-SCREW CUTTER WITH HIGH PRECISION IT42 MODEL


                Or you from what enterprise have thrown pictures.

                By the way, Izhevsk lathes will be more interesting than the Chinese, only the price and equipment suffer.

                Nonprofit Educational Institution
                "TRAINING CENTER" OJSC IZHMASH "
                So from Izhstankomash we buy turning tools. And the fact that they are better than even German DVG is a fact. Although they can only do a trifle. But Ivanovtsy and Ryazanians make machines better than all foreigners and the price is more interesting. Although the Germans that Yapy stubbornly climb to us (only I am silent about the Czechs, Psheks, Bulgarians and Italians)
                1. lucidlook
                  0
                  27 January 2013 21: 59
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  But Ivanovtsy and Ryazanians make machines better than all foreigners and the price is more interesting.


                  Ryazanians? Are which of them?
            2. itkul
              +2
              27 January 2013 15: 44
              Quote: lucidlook
              Sorry that there are so many photos ... but I don’t know how else you can make it clear what is happening in the industry right now.


              And so everyone sees that production is being systematically destroyed. We have all successes only on the site, done, by the way, I remembered a joke

              . The lecturer reports on the successes of the five-year plan:
              - A power station was built in city A ...
              Replica from the audience:
              “I'm just from there.” There is no power station there!
              The lecturer continues:
              - A chemical plant was built in city B ...
              The same voice:
              “I was there a week ago.” There is no factory there!
              Lecturer explodes:
              “And you, comrade, need to hang around less and get more newspapers?”
              to read!
            3. 0
              27 January 2013 23: 47
              Quote: lucidlook
              but I don’t know how else you can make it clear what is happening in industry right now.


              The information is not sensational. I hope she calls for giving orders to our industry, which will allow us to update equipment and modernize production.
        2. +1
          27 January 2013 19: 32
          + You, the machines should also be ours, as well as the tool.
          1. +2
            27 January 2013 20: 29
            Quote: Makk
            as well as a tool.
            Well, the tool is much better now than the Russian Taigu tech (by the way, they switched to it, Koreans are now better than even the Germans to make snap) Well, in Russia there is more carbide carbide only Kirovgrad. And that is debatable.
            1. 0
              27 January 2013 21: 13
              I just had in mind that it is necessary to establish the production of my own instrument, naturally of appropriate quality.
              PS I know Taigu tech, but there are many other excellent brands (it’s a pity that not ours).
            2. Misantrop
              0
              27 January 2013 21: 39
              Quote: Mechanic
              Well, in Russia there is more carbide only Kirovgrad.

              Look at "Sapphire" (like Kazan). I don’t know about the big ones, but they are head and shoulders above the same Germans and Americans (I’m not talking about the price). The last 8 years of the best carbide microtool (from the serially produced on the planet) I have not met
            3. lucidlook
              0
              27 January 2013 22: 13
              So on Avisma, carbide processing technologies were still preserved. Well done.
    13. nickname 1 and 2
      +1
      27 January 2013 09: 36
      If you recall that before there were some trades. Sikorsky was offended by tripods, and others, etc.

      However, there is no need to flog a fool! Create a joint commission, see the condition of the equipment, wear, estimate, repaint. After all, 20 years there was no update of fixed assets!
      But not to say here in spite: what machine park do you want to get the country's defense?

      There is something to consider! Not Stalin's time to shift knuckle accounts.
      To hell with the market on the defensive.
      1. 0
        27 January 2013 09: 39
        I think a similar commission has already been - after all, modernization is underway at the defense industry plants, where reconstruction, and somewhere new plants are being built (like Almaz-Antey)
      2. +1
        27 January 2013 09: 47
        Quote: nick 1 and 2
        There is something to consider! Not Stalin's time to shift knuckle accounts.
        To hell with the market on the defensive.

        Certainly to hell, clear state planning is necessary, and therefore it is necessary to create a committee for the defense industry, which will lead Chubais. God forbid.
      3. lucidlook
        +4
        27 January 2013 14: 02
        Abroad will help us. Germany, Japan, Great Britain ... and even the Czech Republic - they supply excellent CNC machines. If you don’t have any money at all, you can buy clones of our machines in China, there’s no problem with that.

        The question is different ... the question is who and how will work on this equipment if the number (without regard to quality) of specialists is constantly falling?

        Here are the data from Rosstat for 2011. See sections below:
        "State and municipal educational institutions of higher
        vocational education "

        и
        "Non-state educational institutions of higher professional education"

        http://www.gks.ru/bgd/regl/b11_01/IssWWW.exe/Stg/d12/3-5.htm

        If 20 years have been raising middle managers and sales directors, then where will those who can and most importantly want to work on this new equipment in workshops come in droves? For this, it is necessary that respect for the person of work be higher than for the trader ... in all senses and forms. And this moment ideologically does not fit into our current national idea, the essence of which is a luxurious life. Alas.
    14. +3
      27 January 2013 09: 46
      It is clear even without Shoigu that buying weapons from a potential enemy is tantamount to suicide. And in general, what kind of "fruit" this Shoigu is, time will tell.
      1. 0
        27 January 2013 09: 56
        Shoigu himself included the creation of, I believe, a powerful grouping of forces of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, previously there was no such thing in the country in principle - though no one would let the Accounting Chamber and the Investigative Committee go there, how many skeletons are there? - so Shoigu is just another "the proprietor" and "his son of a bitch", all the more he does not hesitate to attach his relatives. He knows how to knock money out of the budget, or rather they give it to him more willingly, but how this money is spent - hz. while
        1. vladsolo56
          +3
          27 January 2013 10: 37
          I can say that Shoigu went Russia far and wide as Minister of Emergencies. like no one else he knows how people live in Russia, there are no ideal people, there will certainly be someone who says this he did wrong. But as you know, criticizing is always easier than doing. I will not say that Sergey is a panacea, wait and see, but at least I trust him so far
          1. -1
            27 January 2013 13: 54
            one person will not be able to do anything - neither Serdyukov spoil everything nor Shoigu fix everything, but hopes - we all hope, and rightly so - "wait and see" what Shoigu is good for in this post, but I am indignant about incomprehensible laudatory odes addressed to him post MO - he is just talking, but here already such kissing has gone.
            1. Misantrop
              0
              27 January 2013 15: 24
              Quote: bddrus
              he only speaks

              He even says the right thing, unlike his predecessors. Previously, it wasn’t
            2. +5
              27 January 2013 18: 18
              Quote: bddrus
              but he hopes - this is all we hope, and rightly so - "we will wait and see" what Shoigu is good for in this post, but I am indignant at the incomprehensible laudatory odes addressed to him as the Ministry of Defense - he just says and here already such kissing has gone.


              wait a minute, he’s Sergey Shoigu, already in such a short time
              1. Overturned a series of unpopular and harmful from the point of view of national security decisions of the former minister.
              2. Lifted the ban on participation in the May 9 Victory Day parade for students of the Suvorov and Nakhimovsky schools, thereby returning the traditions of the Russian army.
              3. Suspended the Elimination of Military Hospitals
              4. Turned over the rights to the commander of districts and connections.
              5. Suspended "innovations" in the education system, canceling the new (Bologna system) concept of military education of universities of the Ministry of Defense
              6.increased the staff of the Commander-in-Chief by 2 times
              etc.

              Take into account one more point, namely S. Shoigu almost with 0 he created a powerful ministry for emergency situations..This speaks of his great organizational skills as a leader. In fact, with Shoigu and here at the new post he will have to start with 0! IMHO. Moreover, Serdyukov ruined the army and the country's defense for years and you want Shoigu to rectify the situation in a couple of days. what
              1. 0
                27 January 2013 18: 53
                forgot about the fact that the stars on the planes decided to repaint
    15. VESHA1957
      +4
      27 January 2013 10: 03
      Correctly believes the general technician should be 100% made in Russia! good good good
    16. +2
      27 January 2013 10: 15
      It is probably worth limiting the purchases of weapons abroad by law and allowing only the purchase of samples of small arms, sights, optics in special forces to familiarize ourselves with everything else, we only need as a textbook on "how to use captured equipment."
    17. +7
      27 January 2013 10: 21
      Our wonderful Minister of Defense is wrong, saying the words "we will buy when our capabilities run out", in my opinion it would be more correct "the capabilities of our defense industry will never run out, and if such tendencies are observed, then we will instantly turn all these enterprises into PO Boxes. closed type, and managers who have not justified the high title of "effective managers" will go to extract raw materials for their own enterprises. " You know, you can breed shushi-pushi in the production of chewing gum, and here is the defense of the country.
      1. vladsolo56
        +1
        27 January 2013 10: 42
        In a market economy, or rather a market economy, many components are now produced at private enterprises. and therefore prices where it smells like budget money is prohibitive, in the end result, the final price of finished products also turns out to be prohibitive. The government should take tight control of private enterprises supplying materials and components for budget orders and not only in the field of defense. Will our government want to take such steps or not another question
    18. +1
      27 January 2013 10: 23
      “The main message is that the state, in spite of everything, has focused and adopted an unprecedented program of re-equipment. And we must be ready to receive all these new systems and equipment,” said Shoigu.

      Sergei Kuzhugetovich said everything correctly, our army has been waiting for such a minister for a long time, and now there is a holiday on our street. Now we can hope that our defense capability will only get stronger, and you will look after the defense industry, and science will begin to revive, and again Russia will "dictate its unyielding will." good
      1. +1
        27 January 2013 10: 36
        He said not what is right, but "beautiful" - are you not yet accustomed to beautiful words and "unprecedented programs", the former of which have not been fulfilled. Oh, and unreasonable, in my opinion, optimism about the new MO on the part of commentators alarms me
        1. +1
          27 January 2013 13: 52
          Now you are being pecked for daring to doubt Shoigu laughing
          1. -1
            27 January 2013 15: 43
            there is such a thing - I'll give everything for a plus sign! laughing as one phrase I remember from the video: "so what! But they will instruct me to stop a hundred hearts." All this toys - I have enough real rank, but here is a game of ratings smile
        2. +2
          27 January 2013 18: 25
          Quote: bddrus
          Oh, and I am worried about the unjustified, in my opinion, optimism about commentators on the new MO


          Apparently VV Putin did not know about your existence, otherwise he would have appointed you to the post of minister. Now both forum users and readers of the site know you. There is only a little bit left to bring to the attention of the president. laughing
          1. 0
            27 January 2013 18: 55
            well, specialized and abstruse, I didn’t say anything - just that I don’t trust this person yet, although not yet, but for some time now. But how many people know on the forum how to build an army and how to restore industry and how many people have stolen something, then I can’t keep up with them on the way to the president. laughing
            1. +1
              27 January 2013 20: 39
              Quote: bddrus
              well, specialized and abstruse, I didn’t say anything - just that I don’t trust this person yet, although not yet, but for some time now. But how many people know on the forum how to build an army and how to restore industry and how many people have stolen something, then I can’t keep up with them on the way to the president.


              Well, to trust or not to trust someone is your inalienable right, as well as the right of each of us. It is one thing when you reasonably you don’t trust, and another thing is when, without reason, peremptorily and unsubstantially trying to sow in the minds of people here on the forum distrust of S. Shoigu .. Agree that these are two different things. And finally, I consider S. Shoigu a courageous person, based only on S. Shoigu risks a lot of his one act, namely, by agreeing to work as the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation. Or he will pull the defense ministry and the army as a whole out of the collapse where Serdyukov drove it and thereby open its way to the political Olympus, or fail miserably political career S. Shoigu could calmly work as the governor of the Moscow region, where peace and quiet, but he chose the risk - this, in my understanding, says a lot, if it doesn’t tell you anything, as they say, it's your problems and not mine. My respect , dear opponent !!! hi
              1. 0
                28 January 2013 06: 01
                peremptorily and unfoundedly trying to sow in the minds of people - my dear, you take on a lot - "and who are the judges?" ... I mean, you can only express eulogies? just like on the site "made by us", but at least initially they warn that the site is "good news". There are enough reasons for me not to trust - attached relatives, at the same time I do not make calls for lynching, but only express my point of view - you, in turn, "without reason, categorically and unfoundedly" are trying to forbid me this. Close the forum - if you can only express your point of view on it.
    19. +1
      27 January 2013 10: 32
      words not of a boy, but of a husband. now we hope that there will be deeds behind the words
    20. serge
      0
      27 January 2013 10: 46
      That's right, military equipment must be Russian-made.
    21. +11
      27 January 2013 11: 06
      scolding Shoigu, right.

      - He did not give military medicine to finish off.
      - Universities returned to the commander in chief, resumed enrollment in universities
      - Gave priority to the domestic defense industry
      - The Indian built.

      Or maybe let’s at least six months to work quietly and then we will judge?

      Dap is not the best choice. but at least to blame him for the fact that he finishes what he did not have time to finish Serdyukov we can not.
      1. +2
        27 January 2013 12: 59
        Quote: vorobey
        - He did not give military medicine to finish off.

        Harmful populism. There is nothing worse than just stopping the remaking process. Imagine that you are doing home repairs. They torn off the wallpaper, opened the old parquet and decidedly decided to stop the process. Real pros are already gone. Private clinics tore them off with their hands, and they won’t return back.

        Quote: vorobey
        - Universities returned to the commander in chief, resumed enrollment in universities

        Same as in the first paragraph. With a little clarification, the reception this year was planned by Serdyukov. So he really did nothing.

        Quote: vorobey
        - Gave priority to the domestic defense industry

        Another harmful populist decision. "Effective managers" from the military-industrial complex have been given carte blanche to "master" huge funds by supplying the troops with what does not satisfy them.

        Quote: vorobey
        - The Indian built.

        And he scored new ones. Nothing human is alien to him.

        So far, there has been exclusively populism and narcissism in front of cameras. Since his appointment Shoigu has been shown more than once on TV than Serdyukov in a year
        1. +1
          27 January 2013 13: 05
          Lopatov,

          Vesko, well done. wait and see?
          1. +2
            27 January 2013 13: 23
            Well, I don’t like him at all. Anyway.
            If Serdyukov was thrown off in connection with a change in the policy of military development "at the top," then that is good. And Shoigu, regardless of his personal qualities, will do what he is ordered to do. He, like Serdyukov, is just a transmission link.
            If Taburetkin was thrown off for other reasons (the voiced-VPKshniki "left" him, or his legal spouse "left"), and the policy of the state has not changed, and Shoigu's function is to pretend that everything is fine, then we will have huge problems.
            1. +1
              27 January 2013 13: 54
              I’m afraid that the true reason lies in the area of ​​your second assumption .....
        2. +1
          27 January 2013 13: 58
          here I’m pouring the same thing in the morning. But I don’t remember Serdyuk at all in the interview and on TV I can’t see or hear. Of course, they can steal quietly and may work without paying attention to PR
        3. +1
          27 January 2013 14: 38
          Quote: Spade
          Since his appointment Shoigu has been shown more than once on TV than Serdyukov in a year

          So there was no time for a stool to flicker on blue screens, it was necessary to saw.
          1. 0
            27 January 2013 18: 56
            the identity can be, but it is possible to flash on TV more often - so that it could be seen that it works!
        4. +1
          27 January 2013 16: 07
          Quote: Spade
          Real pros are already gone. Private clinics tore them off with their hands, and they won’t return back.


          You probably know straight?
          My wife is working in the hospital ... At the last moment, when the reduction directive was already ... stopped .... everyone was put back in place .... everyone is working ...

          So that with medicine they didn’t quite finish off .... a lot of poher, not without it .... but ... something
    22. +1
      27 January 2013 11: 13
      A very harmful statement. "Effective managers" of the military-industrial complex will understand it in their own way: "relax, we will buy from you no matter what."
    23. +3
      27 January 2013 11: 20
      The whole world buys military equipment from us, and we are imported fool ??? The logic is obvious, let the gentlemen who initiated this lobby shove their contracts together with the kickbacks am
      1. +3
        27 January 2013 12: 14
        • dchanc112

        Che quietly minus. If you do not agree, show up and argue if you do not agree with something.

        Or is it like this - the tongue in the ass, but the pens are free?

        You can raid about me - I won’t take revenge.
        1. +4
          27 January 2013 14: 04
          I do not understand - what kind of hysterics are always about the minuses? Is there really nothing more to distinguish in life? - I do not believe! I, for example, sometimes run through the comments and put the pros and cons as I agree or disagree. Can it be that everyone should write under a carbon copy why? I am more surprised when those who are worried about the minuses - they sow pluses to each other, and the comments are just "hello! How are you" "and I'm glad to see you" and the like - why are you putting a plus? Write about it? or does this comment carry super-meaning on the topic under discussion? no-just plus each other
          1. +2
            27 January 2013 14: 27
            Quote: bddrus
            I don’t understand - what kind of hysteria is always about the cons?


            There is no hysteria. it’s just that there is a contingent which, as a seeder, stupidly runs through and begins to minus everything. therefore said so.
            By the way, there are those who for these virtual shoulder straps are cut with terrible force.
            as it may affect the rating. and a group of such a disagreeing newcomer to the gray drive is not difficult. and then so that he does not say he is right, he will stupidly sculpt minuses. You in this thread

            Quote: vorobey
            dchanc112

            Have you seen this friend? There are some who are thus finely avenged.
            1. +3
              27 January 2013 15: 14
              Yes, I already notice myself - I check my plus signs, thank God I'm not ready to speak for them yet, I don't think so. Of course, I exaggerate about hysteria, but very often I come across comments, look at the beginning - "who gave me a minus, such a bastard hid, wow," or vice versa in the style of a protective tatem - "and let me be minded, but I will tell." How the virtual machine entered the real life of us! it is not in vain that they talk about "tweeter revolutions" - you will really believe that this is possible
              1. +2
                27 January 2013 15: 22
                Quote: bddrus
                look at the beginning - "who gave me a minus, such a bastard hid, wow, I told him


                You can continue to sculpt me, do not be shy. I am from a large bell tower, and not vindictive.
                I prefer to answer than to put a minus.
                1. +1
                  27 January 2013 19: 01
                  I plus or minus only as a "vote", or for aggression-anger in the comments, but you don't continue - just enough smile By the way, we left the topic for those comments that I see no reason to plus or minus - not discussing identity
        2. +1
          27 January 2013 16: 08
          Quote: vorobey
          You can make a fuss of me - I won’t take revenge


          Of course ... then I lost my gun laughing
          1. +4
            27 January 2013 16: 12
            Quote: volkan
            ... then I lost my gun


            They gave me a new one. it turns out I can now see who sculpts what to whom.

            Not insulting, insulting when such mowers with a scythe all indiscriminately pass.

            But then you old-timers know my principles.
            1. +1
              27 January 2013 16: 38
              Quote: vorobey
              Not insulting, insulting when such mowers with a scythe all indiscriminately pass.


              Yes, today there were such mowers-minusari ... We ran through ... even if they would normally set out the position. Because if, according to normal, even if I don’t agree, then it’s honest, and so ..... I can see right behind the clave ... but to all of you ..... here laughing



              Quote: vorobey
              They gave me a new one

              Moderated wink
            2. +1
              27 January 2013 19: 03
              Is it necessary for me to be afraid? laughing , oh, all the same, a lot of attention to "shoulder straps"
              1. 0
                27 January 2013 21: 51
                Quote: bddrus
                oh all the same, a lot of attention to "shoulder straps"


                So shoulder straps here are not from the bulldozer, but from the mind

                And Sparrow banter nefig. Komenty need to read
                1. 0
                  28 January 2013 06: 05
                  So shoulder straps here are not from the bulldozer, but from the mind - if you put yourself above others, well, yes, I have already spoken out about the looping in the virtual ranking. Live real life
    24. +1
      27 January 2013 11: 24
      I agree completely, the equipment should be made in Russia. Well, the price will fall very simply, to throw superfluous managers to hell, or one is responsible for the nut on 19, the second for the bolt for 19, the third for the key for 19. And for kickbacks on the bunk.
      1. +6
        27 January 2013 11: 41
        Quote: Edward72
        to throw superfluous managers to hell


        Intermediate links to turn off. After all, as a rule, you won’t take anything directly from the factory. The same director creates an additional commercial structure such as a trading house and resells the products of the plant with a margin and additional profits.
        1. +4
          27 January 2013 20: 31
          Quote: vorobey
          Intermediate links to turn off. After all, as a rule, you won’t take anything directly from the factory. The same director creates an additional commercial structure such as a trading house and resells the products of the plant with a margin and additional profits.
          Sasha, well, it’s still right now and everyone’s equipment comes from behind the hill. and even manufacturers do not hide it.
    25. Tagir-abzi
      +2
      27 January 2013 11: 43
      I agree in one that all weapons should be of Russian production! but we need new plants in Russia! and not only the military but the whole production must be raised! only the Americans will not give us this! you need to force the government to act !!! and hold on!
      1. 0
        27 January 2013 13: 56
        Well, make the government, just wondering how ??? And how will you support ???
      2. 0
        27 January 2013 14: 07
        civil society is just nasozhda.kogda rallies go not "against" something, but "for" - with demands to improve something, to raise pensions or salary, and I will support. In the meantime, the rallies are stupidly against everything that the current government proposes, just because the government is not us.
    26. +2
      27 January 2013 11: 55
      the state’s monopolization of all defense enterprises and military equipment manufacturers could solve this problem, but over the years, the privatization of such enterprises has undermined all cooperative ties between them, in the Soviet Union there were factories and institutes in all the republics working as a single mechanism, now alas, you have to think where to get a lot of weapons and fast
    27. Tagir-abzi
      +1
      27 January 2013 12: 06
      After the hunchback and Yeltsin! 1 mu Putin does not raise Russia without us tobesh karennye violence of Russia. Yes, to resist the globalism of America! but what we have inherent in the genes. we will rise and globalize everything !!!
    28. stranik72
      +2
      27 January 2013 13: 16
      And we must be ready to receive all these new systems and equipment, "Shoigu said.
      And at this time in Voronezh, an act is signed to close the production of aircraft piston engines, goodbye to the Yak-52. SU-29 and MI-34. Before that, pilot production of rotary engines, including for aviation engines, in Tolyati, where we were in the world in the late 80s, died. And that's it, Russia in this segment of aircraft engine building is 1. And who is the winner?
      1. Tagir-abzi
        +1
        27 January 2013 13: 43
        The winners are the gentlemen of the masses! our enemies!
    29. fenix57
      0
      27 January 2013 14: 06
      CORRECTLY CONSIDER Comrade RF MINISTER OF DEFENSE. And the plants will be ready (hopefully) - there would be orders! good
    30. +2
      27 January 2013 14: 12
      The fact that weapons and military equipment for the Russian Army should be made in Russia is unambiguous, as the lawyer’s son would say.
      But for this, statements by Shoigu and Rogozin, who joined him, are not enough. We need a serious modernization of the entire scientific, industrial and educational base of Russia, which is still poorly visible, because it does not promise big kickbacks for the bureaucratic and big profits for the commercial fraternity. And while this fraternity does not feel the personal benefits of modernization, all calls will go into the sand or even deeper. And no financial investments will solve this problem. How much will pour, so much this brotherhood will plunder.
      1. +1
        27 January 2013 14: 29
        a plus. the fact that it should be domestic is obvious, but this is not enough. she must be least no worse than foreign analogues (i.e. competitive), and for this it is necessary to develop science and move technology forward.
      2. lucidlook
        +2
        27 January 2013 14: 44
        Quote: gregor6549
        And until this brotherhood feels personal gain


        Or he won’t feel the noose around his neck ... figuratively speaking.

        As for the benefits, everything is very simple. Time. Time, time. These gentlemen with money are fine, but with time - seams. After all, none of them is sure that he will remain in place for at least a year. This means that any means are good for obtaining benefits in less than a year. Obviously, no investment in modernization will pay off in about one year. Well, if for 5 years they will profit. And on the other hand, import. A month or two and the money turned around. And this is not to mention the requisitions that customs collects, not to mention the whole food chain that lives exclusively at the expense of imports. The export of raw materials and the import of goods are two sides of the same coin. And for them, experts are not needed. Investing in them is stupid. It’s better to send money to increase turnover, to warehouses, to advertising in the end. But the domestic production of similar goods in this case is that bone in the throat. And we must fight with him in every possible way.
        1. +4
          27 January 2013 15: 40
          Quote: lucidlook
          no investment in modernization pays off in about one year. Well, if in 5 years they will profit


          Here I agree with you. There is a big difference between a businessman and a business executive. No businessman will risk long-term investments. he ideally needs fast money. But the manager has different goals and objectives. he needs to work in the future.

          Here in an unstable state defense order. and all statements about the inability and poor quality of products, what kind of economic activity can be discussed?
    31. +2
      27 January 2013 14: 43
      Wasn't it as clear as day. British shells that did not explode in the Battle of Tsushima, or American bombs that did not explode at the Argentines near the Malvinas Islands. Its own "defense", which feeds the economy from a sampler-assistant geologist to design bureaus and the exchange rate.
    32. The comment was deleted.
    33. SEM
      SEM
      0
      27 January 2013 15: 36
      If we lose our production of weapons, then we already lost any war before it began. We need to take the best imported weapons and make them better; that’s a justifiable purchase, and buying everything will ruin our production. I think there is no other option + to increase development and prepare new heads for this intellectual work to create advanced military technologies. It is necessary that Russia is feared not because of the Nuclear club, but because of the strength of the intellect that is able to create and implement any task related to the impossibility to attack the country with impunity, even if by superior forces, for example, the same NATO.
    34. kukuruzo
      +2
      27 January 2013 15: 42
      totally agree ... you need to catch up with the world in technological production
    35. +3
      27 January 2013 17: 17
      How many times do we step on the same rake. And from the very beginning, just the defense industry should be state-owned so that it is possible to control the same secrecy of development and correctly plan the training of personnel for certain industries. No LLC will make military equipment and a no brainer. And to appoint production managers, as well as to control the quality of development - these are simple truths, and so far we will not see new developments.
    36. +1
      27 January 2013 17: 36
      But until recently, "Taburetkin & Co" so advocated the import of military equipment, and, as it turns out, did not even bother to check it beforehand: they bought a "pig in a poke", obviously focusing on the advertising of selling firms. And they found support not only in the person of the Chief General Staff, but even the then Commander-in-Chief, whose words immediately "in stone" were cast. Was it really not clear that, before demanding modern technology from Oboronka, it was necessary to invest in it, and considerable funds, as Western competitors do: it is NOT possible to CREATE and organize its mass production based on the sheer enthusiasm of advanced technology. Yes, if you need it FAST, you can purchase imported military equipment. But, firstly, it is unlikely, it will be the most modern model! Moreover, it is unlikely that they will admit to modern technologies of its creation or sell them. But what about the repair of this equipment, with the supply of spare parts? How much a foreign firm will have to pay for all this. And if tensions arise with NATO, will the firm fulfill its obligations? So a "quick" solution to the problem through imports may end up being SUCH A PROBLEM, not to mention the huge financial losses. And all this urgency could have been avoided if
    37. sergskak
      +1
      27 January 2013 18: 38
      But could it be otherwise? Before it could. Let's see. Previously, there was the main formula: order, scientists, machine tools, workers. I hope so.
    38. Andrew 1961
      0
      27 January 2013 18: 38
      Dear Forum, good evening! Allow me to express my modest opinion in the ensuing discussion: is the new (or not) good new Minister of Defense. Both Serdyukov and Shoigu have one commander. Putin (Dmitry Anatolyevich is not considered because of his stealth). Now the question. Will the sum of the terms change without replacing the chief commander, excuse me, the slogan? Sincerely, dear Forumites.
      1. sergskak
        +1
        27 January 2013 18: 55
        Andrew 1961, Your idea is understandable. Let me simply formulate your thought: -Do you need Putin or not? I guessed right? (You are clearly against)
        1. 0
          28 January 2013 06: 08
          Dear Sergey, no one raises the question whether Russia needs Putin or not, because the majority of the population of Russia has already made their choice and this choice must be respected.
          The question is different. How could it happen that Putin and his team (including Putin’s acting president Medvedev) first put forward, and then for a long time and stubbornly kept at the head of the Defense Ministry a person who was absolutely incompetent in all those issues that the Minister of Defense had to decide not some kind of Zakhudalovka but such a great country like Russia and also unclean on hand.
          After all, there was more than enough information about the affairs of Serdyukov and Co. to bring this group to justice for a long time, or at least kick it out of the Ministry of Defense. And since they did not do this, the question arises: was it not beneficial to Serdyukov's chiefs and would it not be beneficial for them to continue to maintain this state of affairs, masking this "status quo" with light cosmetic measures and punishing the switchmen?
    39. SEM
      SEM
      +1
      27 January 2013 20: 11
      Do you guys think there is another alternative (Those that can only be nonsense and incite to Swamp people ???) they will lead to only one to the warrior and the collapse of the country, and without options. And it does not seem to you that we have already passed this ??? Do we need it ??? I think whether he is good or bad, our descendants will decide, but we need to work. The Scriptures (Bibles) say any authority from God whether you like it or not. All together must rest and stretch the country, and not scold (scolding is the easiest way) Without Russia, we all will have only one right to quickly die and free the territory .. That's for sure.
      1. redwolf_13
        0
        28 January 2013 04: 24
        Oh, how healthy "The Scripture (Bible) says any power from God, whether you like it or not. All together should resist and stretch out the country, and not scold" And you do not think that these are the words of a SLAVE. So I am a free man. There is always an alternative. And what will all the guys tell you tomorrow that this country cannot be corrected, we renounce sovereignty and tomorrow new masters will come to us. And we are such an opa legs to the top (well, the power is from God) and there is still no COUNTRY. COOKING. Can't manage, go and hide.
        "Without Russia, we will all have only one right to die as soon as possible and liberate the territory" NO without a name Russia has the right to DIE with us. We have our MOTHERLAND and how it will be called this is the second case it was called and tsarist Russia and the USSR and the Russian Federation but did not die and moved on. So we don't need this priestly "power from God, so don't talk." PASSED THESE TIMES.
        And the marsh, too, is not bad, let them scratch up there and think why and from what And then they got used to "don't rock the boat" blah RATs are rocking
    40. 0
      27 January 2013 21: 36
      Even the presidential limousine will be made in Russia. As reported by the news, the novelty is planned to be built on the basis of the current car of the head of state - the Mercedes-Benz S 600 Pullman Guard. At "GAZ" intend to name the model "Seagull" and release it in duplicate
    41. +2
      27 January 2013 21: 36
      "Equipment for the Ministry of Defense should be produced in Russia" - as cast in bronze ... the revelation is simple
      I think this is just a phrase .... they’ll buy both cute equipment and accessories for it in the West .... or they will remain on the old and worn out ...
      There are only two ways out - either to buy ready-made ... at best, with a technological line and, as a consequence, outdated there .. or to break down the whole system like Stalin at one time ... and no one from the government will do that ...
      I explain - in the country, machine-tool building has been completely eliminated, that is, machine tools can be taken only in the west ... to reach a new technological level ... if you do something unique then you need to order machines for this exactly .. that is the end of uniqueness and time and price. .. and then those modes and materials will catch up with the machines. which we also suddenly will not be with us ... it’s shorter to break and not build, we drove ourselves into a stalemate situation ...
      1. +1
        28 January 2013 07: 39
        So he can do this wonderful thing! Only a lot needs to be changed in the country, and the main thing is to do the almost impossible - to derive the phrase "man of working specialty" and an abusive vocabulary.
    42. veins
      +1
      27 January 2013 22: 27
      he began to correct the dope of the stool. maybe it's really better what will happen ......
    43. 0
      27 January 2013 22: 54
      Guilty news guys !!! Great Britain is going to put fake chemical weapons in Syria! belay

      http://www.aif.ru/politics/news/298652
      1. gojesi
        0
        28 January 2013 00: 32
        Quote: sergo0000
        UK gonna put in

        why not "England" ??? Do you respect, grovel, or pretend? Big minus !!! (-)
    44. VESHA1957
      0
      28 January 2013 02: 10
      Not some purchases from a cardon only a fatherly weapon! good
    45. Senzey
      0
      28 January 2013 08: 43
      Our industry must be loaded unambiguously, to carry out industrialization in a modern way. Equip factories with modern advanced equipment. Then the quality and productivity will rise significantly.
    46. 0
      31 January 2013 18: 02
      It's hard to argue with that position ...

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