Hot Black Sea Pebbles

106
The proximity of conflict zones determines combat readiness fleet

The radical reduction of the Russian Armed Forces, which led to a decrease in their combat capabilities, especially strongly affected the Navy (the fate of the Northern Fleet is described in the newspaper "VPK", No. 2, 2013). In this regard, the Black Sea Fleet found itself in a particularly difficult situation. The role was played not only by ill-considered "reforms", but also by the painful process of determining the status of the Soviet legacy and its division between the newly independent states - Russia and Ukraine. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Russian Black Sea Fleet has lost most of its ship repair and shipbuilding facilities. A significant part of its naval staff today is unable to fully solve tasks as intended. At the same time, an analysis of the current international situation shows that military tension on the southern border of Russia is growing at a high rate.

According to a number of experts, the likelihood of a world war remains, which, of course, will not bypass the Black Sea region. At any moment, smoldering or new armed conflicts can flare up here, capable of adding oil to the world fire. The threat of destabilization of the situation in the regions adjacent to the borders of Georgia with Abkhazia and South Ossetia remains. After the defeat in August 2008, the aggressor, using the support of the United States, Israel and other guardians of Tbilisi, managed to replenish the potential of his armed forces and is ready to make a new attempt by military means to "restore his territorial integrity." There is a war against sovereign Syria. Using international terrorists and political adventurers, the West and Islamic fundamentalists claiming to create an Islamic caliphate are fighting against the legitimate Syrian government. Washington and Tel Aviv do not stop declaring the need by any means, including force weapons, stop the Iranian nuclear program.

All these processes create a real threat of our country being drawn into military conflicts in the region. The Black Sea Fleet, as an integral part of the Navy, is the most important means of ensuring Russia's security in the southern direction. Will he be able to solve the tasks assigned to him to protect Russian interests in the Black Sea?

Capable remnants

Let's evaluate the combat strength of the Black Sea Fleet. According to open sources, at the beginning of 2013, this operational-strategic formation includes two submarines and 41 surface ships. Marine aviation has 34 aircraft and about 40 helicopters for various purposes.

Hot Black Sea Pebbles

The submarine forces have only two submarines - one 877 "Varshavyanka" and one 641B "Som". The first of them is in service and is capable of solving the tasks assigned to it. The fate of the second is not finally determined. It is undergoing a long overhaul. By today's standards, its combat capabilities are extremely low, and the expediency of returning to service is questionable. In addition, it is planned to enter into the structure of this naval association two submarines of project 877, which are to be transferred from the Northern Fleet.

The core of the surface forces is the Moscow guards missile cruiser, the Kerch large anti-submarine ship, three patrol ships, four small missile ships, seven small anti-submarine ships, 11 minesweepers, seven large landing ships, and six missile boats.

18 Su-24M attack aircraft (according to the classification of the Navy, actually front-line bombers) Su-12M, from four to seven seaplanes of Be-12 anti-submarine aviation, one AN-24PP electronic warfare aircraft and four Su-XNUMX MR reconnaissance aircraft are of combat importance in the composition of naval aviation.

The helicopter fleet consists of 30 Ka-27PL shipborne anti-submarine missiles and eight Mi-8-based electronic warfare helicopters.

The most important component of the coastal forces is a separate coastal missile and artillery brigade, which includes three mobile missile regiments (armed with coastal anti-ship missile systems "Redut" and "Rubezh") and a coastal mobile artillery division (130-mm artillery complex "Bereg").

The Marine Corps is represented by a separate regiment.

The condition of the Black Sea Fleet's ships is much better than that of the Northern and Pacific Fleets. This is due to favorable climatic conditions and the presence of a developed infrastructure and ship repair facilities in the main base of the association - Sevastopol.

Nevertheless, from 20 to 50 percent of the ships of this fleet need repairs (current, medium or capital) and are unusable or of limited use for solving tasks for their intended purpose.

The nature of the activities of the Chernomorites suggests that the "Moskva" GRKR and two patrol ships can be attributed to the number of combat-ready ships in the distant sea and ocean zone.

Of the ships in the near sea zone, up to two small missile ships, up to four small anti-submarine ships, up to seven minesweepers, up to five large landing ships and up to four missile boats are possibly combat-ready.

There is currently only one combat-ready submarine in the fleet.

The situation with the aircraft and helicopter fleet is hardly better than the general state of affairs in the RF Air Force. Therefore, it can be assumed that in the Black Sea aviation up to 12 Su-24M, up to three Be-12 seaplanes, up to two Su-24MR reconnaissance aircraft, up to 18 Ka-27PL and up to five electronic warfare helicopters are in flightable condition.

With the outbreak of hostilities, the Black Sea Fleet will interact with the 51st Air Defense Corps, which, in the overall air defense system, covers bases, basing points and fleet forces in its area of ​​responsibility. For this purpose, up to two fighter aviation regiments (50-60 Su-27 and MiG-29 aircraft) and up to two anti-aircraft missile regiments can be detached from its composition.

To solve the problems of combating large surface ships of a potential enemy, the fleet can be supported by up to two squadrons of long-range aviation.

Low grade

Based on the existing ship composition and taking into account the peacetime operational stress coefficient (according to the experience of the Soviet Navy - 0,25), the Black Sea Fleet has very limited capabilities to support Russia's foreign policy activities and implement its international obligations, including the fight against piracy.

Under favorable conditions, the merger can carry out no more than one campaign within one and a half to two years of a ship group consisting of up to three combat and auxiliary ships led by a missile cruiser, as well as one or two campaigns per year of one patrol or large landing ship both independently and and with one or two auxiliary vessels. To maintain a favorable operational regime in the near sea zone, up to six exits of ship groups of up to three small anti-submarine ships or minesweepers can be carried out annually. It can be stated that this naval formation is incapable of independently ensuring the solution of the peacetime tasks assigned to it.

Trends in the development of the international situation in the region of the fleet's responsibility dictate an increase in the intensity of cruises by its ships three to five times, depending on the degree of tension.

This can be achieved by carrying out the required volume of repair work with the commissioning of ships and supply vessels for the fleet, as well as by building up the ship's personnel, primarily submarine forces.

With the outbreak of hostilities, the Black Sea Fleet will be able to form:

  • a grouping of strike forces to combat enemy surface ships, capable of operating in the far sea zone, consisting of one missile cruiser and up to four escort ships;
  • a grouping of strike forces for operations in the maritime zone adjacent to our coast, which may include up to two naval strike groups of small missile ships, up to two strike groups of missile boats and up to 18 naval attack aircraft, as well as missile and artillery units of the coastal forces of the fleet;
  • a grouping of anti-submarine forces for operations in the near sea zone, including up to two search and strike groups, one non-nuclear submarine, 3-4 anti-submarine aircraft and up to 30 anti-submarine helicopters.


    The fleet will be able to assist the coastal flank of the army with the forces of a marine regiment and up to seven landing ships capable of landing up to two battalions of marines on an unequipped coast.

    These forces are capable of during the first week of hostilities (under favorable conditions):

  • in a distant sea zone or in areas of the Black Sea remote from our coast, destroy one naval strike group of large surface ships, including one enemy missile cruiser, or defeat two or three naval groups (strike or search and strike) of destroyer / frigate-class ships;
  • in the Black Sea areas adjacent to our coast, destroy up to four naval strike groups, consisting of two or three surface ships of the destroyer / frigate classes or missile boats, destroy up to two submarines, land one tactical assault force of up to two with a battalion of marines.

    Turkish factor

    Currently, only Turkey in the region has a fleet capable of effectively opposing Russia. An analysis of the military-political situation that is taking shape here allows us to conclude that there are two options for dragging our country into a war in which the Black Sea Fleet will have to tackle the tasks of repelling external military aggression. This is a possible confrontation with a single Turkish side or with the NATO bloc as a whole.

    The likelihood of a military clash between Russia and Turkey without the involvement of the Alliance with it is hypothetically quite possible. This may happen against the background of an escalation of the military conflict in one of the hot spots in the Caucasus or the Middle East. Already today, Moscow and Ankara have serious differences in their positions on the methods of resolving the Syrian confrontation. The Russian side has its own interests in Cyprus, which do not fully correspond to the Turkish position on the resolution of the Cyprus problem. Russia and Turkey have different opinions on the Karabakh issue. At the same time, the participation of the NATO bloc in these conflicts is not obvious.

    Therefore, the enemy of the Black Sea Fleet can only be the Turkish Navy, which has 15 submarines, 19 URO frigates, up to 25 minesweepers and about 20 missile boats. These forces are likely to be supported by tactical aviation. Of the 440 Turkish Air Force attack aircraft, 100 or more machines can be used for operations against ships and facilities of the Russian Navy in the Black Sea.

    Comparing the capabilities of the fleets, it can be assumed that in the course of hostilities the Turks will lose up to 20 percent of their surface ships and boats, as well as up to 15 percent of their submarines.

    At the same time, the decline of the Russian side will amount to ships of the main classes and boats - up to 30 percent, submarines - up to 50 percent, aviation - up to 40 percent, and coastal troops - up to 50 percent. That is, by the end of the first week of hostilities, the losses of the Black Sea Fleet may reach a critical value, while the Turkish Navy will retain its combat capability. The task of conquering superiority even in the coastal zone for Russia will become intractable.

    If NATO is involved in the conflict, it is likely that a naval group (more than three strike groups of URO cruiser / URO destroyer class ships) will enter the Black Sea, which will be supported by the US Navy's carrier-based aviation (two aircraft carrier strike groups) from the Eastern Mediterranean region. The Black Sea Fleet will not be able to inflict serious damage on the enemy, having itself sustained losses in which it will lose its significance as an operational formation.

    After that, the opposing side will be able to solve the tasks of landing tactical and even operational landings on the Black Sea coast of Russia or its allies without hindrance, to deliver strikes from the sea to the facilities of the Armed Forces and the economy of our country.

    The analysis carried out shows that, in the existing composition, the Black Sea Fleet is incapable of solving the tasks of protecting the interests of Russia and repelling military aggression in the southern direction.

    What to do?

    From the above, an obvious conclusion suggests itself: it is necessary to significantly increase the combat capability of the Black Sea Fleet.

    Certain successes can be achieved by repairing the existing ship stock, which will make it possible to increase the number of combat-ready ships to 85–90 percent. It is necessary to increase the composition of the submarine forces quantitatively and qualitatively to at least 11–12 modern non-nuclear submarines. The expediency of being a part of this naval association GRKR "Moscow" raises certain doubts. In the event of the outbreak of hostilities, this ship of the oceanic and distant sea zone will be locked up in a closed maritime theater, where its capabilities of striking the formations of large surface objects cannot be fully realized. The number of ships of the main classes should be increased to 10–12 units by redeploying them from other directions or building new ones.

    Significant changes must take place in the aviation component. It is necessary to increase the number of assault aviation by two or three times and include at least one fighter regiment in its composition. This is due to the small size of the Black Sea theater, where aviation will definitely play a decisive role. Building up the capabilities of anti-submarine aviation is extremely important. The existing Be-12 aircraft cannot effectively fight modern low-noise submarines. Therefore, an urgent need should be the revision and adoption of the A-40 anti-submarine aircraft complex with the subsequent inclusion of at least 20 such machines in the fleet aviation. It is important to build up reconnaissance aircraft to at least 12-14 Su-24MRs.

    The implementation of these measures will increase the combat capabilities of the Black Sea Fleet and allow it to fully protect Russia's interests in this region.

    It is necessary to do this, since tender sand and round stones can become hot at any time. There is something ...
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    1. +22
      25 January 2013 15: 33
      Well, in order to solve these problems, Crimea at least needs to be returned.
      Novoros is not a fleet base.
      1. Sergh
        +7
        25 January 2013 15: 41
        Quote: vorobey
        Well, in order to solve these problems, Crimea at least needs to be returned.

        You are our Siberian bird, a sparrow, just tell me (I-FOR), but how it will be or how it should be ???
        1. -1
          25 January 2013 15: 55
          Quote: Sergh
          and how will it be or how should it be?


          Words from a song:" ... why friend? yes because
          that I did not learn life from textbooks
          I just work ... I just work as a wizard ..... "


          We will exchange Crimea for a gas-oil-bearing region of Siberia bully (Black humor)
          1. +2
            25 January 2013 16: 50
            Kiev, Crimean, Donetsk and other regions of Russia.
            1. +1
              25 January 2013 17: 32
              It looks like this from "our bank", but someone thinks that if Russia originates from Kievan Rus, then all of Russia should grow to Kiev. tongue
              1. Sergh
                -1
                26 January 2013 05: 18
                The submarine forces have only two submarines - one 877

                Well, it’s you. TUVASCHI currents in vain ...! Of course, I was fictional on sub-long voyage (jelly), but to tell the correspondents about their campaigns, I think little will be known.
                1. Sergh
                  +2
                  26 January 2013 05: 46
                  Voblin, screwed up a lot, I beg your pardon, but "korram" is just a typo, we are farmers, we are Siberians, which means we are always heady, it is better not to touch us if we are touched by bearded camels, PPTs, not camels, not beards ... No, we are not America, we do not hold weapons, we are not supposed to. Yeah, it's worse here ... Yesterday, ICE dragged one Uzbek away from his servicemen, I can't speak, but he stayed alive, he gave him a couple of kuyov and explained to whom and what there was snow in Siberia and what path to walk naked to the ice hole.
                  1. Sergh
                    0
                    26 January 2013 06: 17
                    Avon ... the squirrel came, went to feed, there are three of them already!
          2. Skair1
            +5
            25 January 2013 18: 00
            Don't touch Siberia !!! But this rotten Moscow, maybe ... I'll throw another ruble
            1. +4
              25 January 2013 18: 20
              Quote: Skair1
              this rotten Moscow, you can


              If you're against the cruiser, if not, then for. What for us two Moscow.
        2. +8
          25 January 2013 15: 59
          Quote: Sergh
          You just tell me (I-FOR), but how it will be or how it should be ???


          Well, I think you just have to want it first.
        3. 0
          25 January 2013 21: 13
          It is necessary to return the Crimea and the most important thing with modern weapons to make and put into operation the sooner the better, our grandfathers that in vain were dying in millions, oh, how could they be deactivated! soldier
      2. Nevsky
        +20
        25 January 2013 15: 54
        Amendment. return together with Ukraine hi
        1. +4
          25 January 2013 16: 01
          Quote: Nevsky
          return together with Ukraine


          And Bendera will not be offended?
          1. +20
            25 January 2013 16: 07
            Quote: vorobey
            And Bendera will not be offended?

            And return Bendera to Poland.
          2. +23
            25 January 2013 16: 10
            And Bendera will not be offended?
            And Bendera residents will return to their homeland, to the Polish pigsties.
          3. +6
            25 January 2013 16: 27
            Quote: vorobey
            And Bendera will not be offended?


            And millet must be separated from Ukraine. They are O-Romanian-Hungarian-Psheki. So give them to their former owners. Let them rejoice.
          4. +8
            25 January 2013 16: 29
            Quote: vorobey
            And Bendera will not be offended?

            They carry water to the "offended".
            1. +5
              25 January 2013 16: 33
              Vladimirets,
              Vladimir 70,
              alexneg,
              revnagan,

              Well, you Che, I just asked. although we can already definitely say that a survey was conducted among Ukrainians and Russians, and out of 100% of the respondents, no one was against. hi
            2. 0
              25 January 2013 17: 50
              First they PUT on the offended Yes
            3. Region65
              0
              25 January 2013 18: 04
              and in summer in extreme heat - pIIIIvoo))))
              1. 0
                27 January 2013 01: 46
                Quote: Region65
                and in summer in extreme heat - pIIIIvoo))))


                Derived from beer and from the soul.
      3. avt
        +1
        25 January 2013 17: 26
        Quote: vorobey
        Well, in order to solve these problems, Crimea at least needs to be returned.
        Novoros is not a fleet base.

        Novorossiysk is what it is in reality. I agree that without the control of the entire Crimea, alas, the base of Sevastopol cannot be the main one for the Fleet! Only complete possession of Crimea and the restoration of the plundered infrastructure will allow performing the tasks that Sivkov wants to carry out.
    2. Jin
      +7
      25 January 2013 15: 48
      Yes, it’s somehow sad ... All the more so if the losses of the submarine fleet amount to 50%, and the submarine is one that is combat-ready. We will have half a boat on the Black Sea sad not funny...
      1. +5
        25 January 2013 16: 02
        Quote: Jin
        not funny...

        Yeah .... Where not throw, there is a wedge everywhere .... And how to get out of all this ??? As far as I understand, the capabilities of our industry are at their limit, and the pace ...
      2. +2
        25 January 2013 16: 08
        Yes, not the Black Sea Fleet, but at the time, the Black Sea Flotilla.

        The world has changed.
        The fleet will now also be in the Mediterranean LOCKED, as in the Black Sea: the Suez Canal and the Strait of Gibraltar, here are two difficult loopholes.
        Around the enemies ...
        1. +2
          25 January 2013 17: 26
          Someone may have forgotten that the Black Sea Fleet that we had in 1991 we shared with Ukrainesomething hijacked to Russia excluding aircraft and aircraft carrier.
          That is, numerically, the RF Black Sea Fleet has become less than 1/2. Something in the 90s themselves were withdrawn from the fleet and started up for scrap or sold.
          We left in fraternal republics nuclear weapons and their delivery vehicles, including naval. They came to their senses when the West howled that instead of one nuclear power, there were several more.
      3. +10
        25 January 2013 16: 08
        Quote: Jin
        Remaining with us on the Black Sea half a boat is not funny ...


        Never mind Lithuania and Estonia take the same tank from each other for rent. Let's take Zaporizhia. The truth may not be given, but the attempt is not torture.

        Our regiment was stationed in Perevalnoye in the Crimea. so the state border between the armies was in the middle of the park. A concrete fence separated us from the Ukrainian brigade. All the officers in the same town lived in the same chip and hung out. So when we check the cable, they throw the spare parts over the fence. when they have a drill, we give them.
        1. Jin
          +1
          25 January 2013 17: 38
          Quote: vorobey
          Never mind Lithuania and Estonia take the same tank from each other for rent. Let's take Zaporizhia. The truth may not be given, but the attempt is not torture.

          Our regiment was stationed in Perevalnoye in the Crimea. so the state border between the armies was in the middle of the park. A concrete fence separated us from the Ukrainian brigade. All the officers in the same town lived in the same chip and hung out. So when we check the cable, they throw the spare parts over the fence. when they have a drill, we give them.


          Hey!!! And who will throw the cable to us? Why are you younger again, dear?
          1. +4
            25 January 2013 17: 50
            Quote: Jin
            Why are you young again, dear?


            in the mosaic answered. drinks
            1. Jin
              0
              27 January 2013 05: 41
              drinks clear, accepted!
        2. 0
          25 January 2013 18: 00
          What can I say ... Bros)))))))))))
        3. Avenger711
          -1
          25 January 2013 18: 10
          The main thing is not in one day. laughing
    3. Atlon
      +2
      25 January 2013 16: 08
      Comparing the capabilities of the fleets, it can be assumed that in the course of hostilities the Turks will lose up to 20 percent of their surface ships and boats, as well as up to 15 percent of their submarines.

      At the same time, the decline of the Russian side will amount to ships of the main classes and boats - up to 30 percent, submarines - up to 50 percent, aviation - up to 40 percent, and coastal troops - up to 50 percent. That is, by the end of the first week of hostilities, the losses of the Black Sea Fleet may reach a critical value, while the Turkish Navy will retain its combat capability. The task of conquering superiority even in the coastal zone for Russia will become intractable.

      I'm wondering what the author smokes? what or drinks ... In general, lately there are more and more articles on VO like: "Everything is gone, chief, everything is gone!" (x / f "Diamond Hand"). You can feel the custom-made character ... Does anyone here believe in what is written? (I quoted specifically). laughing Moreover, the article is built like all similar ones: "Serdyukov ruined everything, now everything is gone!" About Serdyukov, a separate conversation, but I fundamentally disagree with the fact that "everything is gone." Turkey will retain the combat capability of its fleet after the defeat of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. fool The author is clearly high ... Where is Turkey, and where is Russia. As it is even inconvenient to compare. Even though NATO is behind Turkey. NATO will not get on the rampage. And with Turkey it will be the same as with Georgia (if anything), but this will not happen either. Too different weight categories Russia vs Turkey. So don't make my slippers laugh, author, you better go sleep it off! negative
      1. Misantrop
        +9
        25 January 2013 16: 51
        Quote: Atlon
        Where is Turkey, and where is Russia. As it is even inconvenient to compare.

        Fresh hats delivered, is there anything to throw? wassat
        By the way, for some reason the author did not mention another combat-ready ship of the Black Sea Fleet - the search and rescue ship Kommuna. Seriously, quite in the ranks and ready for assignments. This year he celebrates the 100th anniversary of the launch. wink
        1. avt
          0
          25 January 2013 17: 31
          Quote: Misantrop
          Seriously, quite in the ranks and ready for assignments. This year it celebrates its 100th anniversary wink

          Yeah, from the shipyard of the German company "Vulkan", if I'm not mistaken good After all, they built ......... for centuries! And the ship worked nicely! good
          1. Misantrop
            +2
            25 January 2013 18: 12
            A mistake, however. The Volcano was only used as a prototype. And they built it at the Putilov plant.

            http://flot.sevastopol.info/ship/spasat/communa.htm

            And here is also about him:
            http://yuvit.mylivepage.ru/wiki/823/309
            1. avt
              +2
              25 January 2013 18: 46
              Quote: Misantrop
              A mistake, however. The Volcano was only used as a prototype. And they built it at the Putilov plant.

              EXACTLY! Wrong ! I looked at the papers, the contract for the "Volkhov" was signed on May 5, 1912 by the head of the general affairs department of the GUK, Major General Sergeev, and the representative of the Society of Putilov Plants, retired Major General Schlesinger!
      2. djon3volta
        0
        25 January 2013 16: 53
        Quote: Atlon
        So don't make my slippers laugh, author

        Sometimes I watch Sivkov on RBC in various programs about the military-industrial complex or military conflicts, he constantly brings up everything in gray tones about the armed forces of the Russian Federation, but he is not alone there, another 1-3 people are discussed, and he is also answered in opposition.
      3. max-02215
        +6
        25 January 2013 16: 53
        Of course, you can throw hats down, but will the Turks sell them?
        Too different weight categories Russia vs Turkey.
        justify in what? the article clearly states the number of units of the fleet and air force on both sides - clearly not in our favor, they just understand that until our nuclear baton is neutralized, there is nothing to catch, so we must use this time - build build and build
        1. Atlon
          -1
          25 January 2013 17: 11
          Quote: max-02215
          justify in what? the article clearly states the number of units of the fleet and air force on both sides - clearly not in our favor, they just understand that until our nuclear baton is neutralized, there is nothing to catch, so we must use this time - build build and build

          And what does the nuclear club have to do with it? The author writes about the Black Sea Fleet as the only military force of the banana state. That is, according to the author, while Turkey is ironing the Black Sea Fleet, the rest of the Russian Armed Forces will silently observe. Secondly, what will the destruction of the Black Sea Fleet give Turkey? Well, really, what are the goodies in the end? And thirdly, remind me of at least one military operation of the "powerful" Turkish fleet? Well, the last thing, you may not know, but Russian weapons have always taken not in quantity, but in quality! And we drove the Janissaries as we always wanted, starting from Azov. Here are my reasons!
          1. +7
            25 January 2013 17: 45
            Quote: Atlon
            And we drove the Janissaries as we always wanted, starting from Azov. Here are my reasons!

            You are an adult, well, finally, be a realist, leave these caps with earflaps alone, do not rush. There are a lot of people here who like to shout out loud. The Turkish fleet is stronger and this must be swallowed and strive to strengthen our fleet. And of course, in the event of a conflict (of course, a local one), Russia will not throw all the might of the army there, because it is fraught, do not forget about Turkey's membership in NATO and about the balance of forces of the same NATO and Russia. This is not Georgia.
            1. Atlon
              -5
              25 January 2013 21: 05
              Quote: almost demobilized
              The Turkish fleet is stronger and it must be swallowed

              No really! Dismiss, swallow such shit yourself! Moreover, this is nonsense.

              Quote: almost demobilized
              And of course, in the event of a conflict (of course, a local one), Russia will not throw all the power of the army there, because it is fraught, do not forget about Turkey's membership in NATO

              Do you know that there was a time when they were shot for an alarmist mood? It's a pity it's not right now ...

              Quote: almost demobilized
              do not forget about Turkey's membership in NATO and about the balance of forces of the same NATO and Russia. This is not Georgia.

              If you surrender without starting a battle, you have no right to be called not only Russian, but even Russian (ugh, disgusting word!)
            2. 77bor1973
              +1
              25 January 2013 23: 23
              The coolest thing is that even with the complete absence of ships on the Black Sea, Russia will not remain without a fleet, this is our geopolitical legacy ...
          2. +9
            25 January 2013 17: 57
            I would like to shout "Hurray !!!", but last year, I spent my last journey on my battleship "Ochakov", and saw all the "power" of our Fleet in the Black Sea ... Grusnyak.
          3. xan
            -2
            25 January 2013 20: 58
            Atlon,
            I completely agree, the article is not an analysis, but nonsense
            in the event of a conflict, any NATO ship in the Black Sea corpse
            The Black Sea Fleet is of no strategic importance for obvious reasons.
            In my opinion, its power is sufficient, even slightly excessive.
            1. +3
              25 January 2013 21: 25
              Quote: xan
              In my opinion, its power is sufficient, even slightly redundant.

              this is definitely nonsense
              1. xan
                -1
                26 January 2013 18: 05
                Tatanka Yotanka,
                propose to catch up with Turkey, and at the same time all NATO, strategist?
                1. +2
                  26 January 2013 22: 13
                  Quote: xan
                  propose to catch up with Turkey, and at the same time all NATO, strategist?

                  strategists in the Ministry of Defense are sitting, by the way, and they offer
                  According to the General Staff of the Navy, over 10 years it is planned to supply the fleet with at least 18 modern warships, including 6 frigates and submarines, as well as new anti-submarine aircraft and bombers. All this is provided for by the adopted State Armament Program, which is designed for 2011-2020. According to this program, the Black Sea Fleet of Russia should receive at least 6 frigates of project 22350, 6 modern diesel submarines of project 636.3
                  http://topwar.ru/17877-rossiya-rasschityvaet-do-konca-goda-reshit-vopros-o-bazir
                  ovanii-chernomorskogo-flota.html
      4. +9
        25 January 2013 17: 28
        Quote: Atlon
        I'm wondering what the author smokes?

        if you don’t want to call the analysis, the menie will be empty, the author proceeds from a hypothetical situation of fleet to fleet, regardless of whether Turkey attacks or not, by the way, the headquarters are also doing the same analyzing all sorts of developments
        about "everything is lost" I did not find in the article, but there is a chapter what to do
        Konstantin Sivkov was born in 1954. In 1976 he graduated from the Naval School. Popov. He served in the navy. Graduated from the Military Medical Academy. In 1992 he graduated from the Academy of the General Staff. From 1995 to 2007 he served in the General Staff of the Armed Forces. Doctor of Military Sciences. Specialist in the field of military political science. Took part in the development of doctrinal documents for the definition of the construction and use of the RF Armed Forces
        do you think he is a complete idiot?
        1. Atlon
          -3
          25 January 2013 21: 08
          Quote: Tatanka Yotanka
          do you think he is a complete idiot?

          An idiot? No! Completing an order? Yes. Many of these have been divorced recently. Although he may just be an alarmist, but this is unlikely, now everything is for money.
          1. Misantrop
            +4
            25 January 2013 23: 11
            Quote: Atlon
            An idiot? No! Completing an order? Yes. Many of these have been divorced recently. Although he may just be an alarmist, but this is unlikely, now everything is for money.

            Announce the list of your scientific papers. Or track record. To compare. Otherwise, Comrade Mehlis behaved in a similar vein from half a century ago. He also threatened to tear everyone to pieces. And then there was Theodosia and Kerch, for some reason the Germans did not want to break into rags ...
            1. Sergh
              0
              26 January 2013 06: 33
              Quote: Tatanka Yotanka
              analysis will be empty, the author proceeds from a hypothetical situation of fleet to fleet, regardless

              You, penbück, fuck from here.
            2. xan
              0
              26 January 2013 18: 19
              Quote: Misantrop
              Announce the list of your scientific papers. Or track record. To compare. Otherwise, Comrade Mehlis behaved in a similar vein from half a century ago. He also threatened to tear everyone to pieces. And then there was Theodosia and Kerch, for some reason the Germans did not want to break into rags ...


              yes, the Germans simply did not fight at sea, and almost solved their tasks without the help of their fleet at all
              the author of the article is preparing for past wars
          2. xan
            0
            26 January 2013 18: 15
            Atlon,
            such warriors as the author of the article with their local outlook simply enrage
            in the event of a conflict, the Russian Black Sea Fleet will be locked in the Black Sea.
            But the same ships in the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet are dick
            And the submarines, especially 10-12 units, what will they do in the World Cup?
            It remains to be glad that he is just a hack.
        2. 0
          25 January 2013 23: 09
          Quote: Tatanka Yotanka
          Took part in the development of doctrinal documents for the definition of the construction and use of the RF Armed Forces

          So that's who ruined our army and navy. According to his guiding documents, Perdukov carried out the reform, into the torture chamber of his parasite and tortured him until he confesses who slipped such ideas to him. He destroyed it himself, and now he is shouting that everything is gone. That's right - keep the thief in the bazaar the thief himself shouts the loudest.
          1. Misantrop
            +1
            25 January 2013 23: 55
            Quote: Captain45
            According to his guiding documents, Perdukov carried out the reform

            Looking at the intellectual face of Serdyukov, doubts arise that he is generally capable of working according to documents, especially not according to his own ... wink
      5. +10
        25 January 2013 18: 41
        Yes, what kind of "shapkozakidatelstvo" is that? Turkey is a very serious contender. and underestimating its military power is criminal. Here are some figures from Wikipedia, "The number of personnel of the Turkish Armed Forces, excluding reservists, is 720 thousand people (2011). For mobilization in wartime, a military-trained reserve of up to 90 people can be used, including 000 - the reserve of the first queue "
        Comparison of the fleets is said in the article, but not in favor of the Black Sea Fleet. So what are we going to fight with? Will we pay for everything with soldiers' lives again?
        PS: By the way, to go out to sea, Ukraine still has permission not to forget to ask at the same time wink
      6. +2
        26 January 2013 05: 33
        That’s what you smoke is not exactly clear. The author gives sober estimates, and even overly optimistic. At the same time, Sivkov is a captain of the first rank and has three higher military educations at all levels: a military school - a military academy - an academy of the general staff. And his estimates are based on methodologies that take into account many factors.
        And your assessments are akin to Pasha Grachev, in two hours the forces of one paratrooper regiment to restore order in Chechnya. Everyone knows how the first Chechen war ended.
        Hurray-patriotism is evil for the country, we need to take a sober and realistic look at things ...
        1. nickname 1 and 2
          +1
          26 January 2013 08: 48
          Komsomolets,
          Quote: Komsomolets
          first rank and has three higher military educations at all levels: a military school - a military academy - an academy of the general staff

          Well, what about P. Grachev's? So he also knew the opinion of the General Staff.
          As it does not fit.
          Probably not in the number of universities.
          And besides = Cap 1st has the Academy of the General Staff why not an admiral?
    4. +2
      25 January 2013 16: 11
      The analysis of the situation has been carried out, but it is difficult to assess it. It is difficult for a person who is far from the navy to understand what the author was starting from. His assessment criteria, his analysis of possible clashes should be based on some general criteria.
      So for the article itself 4 (sources of analysis are not indicated). And for the political forecast, perhaps 3. Since the variant of the war between the Russian Federation and Turkey is taken without general consideration, but rather a local one. Which in reality cannot be.
      But I read it all the same with interest.
      1. Atlon
        -6
        25 January 2013 16: 15
        Quote: erased
        The analysis of the situation has been carried out, but it is difficult to assess it.

        Where did you see the analysis ?! belay I didn’t see anything except a sick imagination, sucked out of my finger! Maybe you will poke me into the place where the author "analyzes", and does not masturbate, excited by the phrase "everything is gone" or "how scary to live!" laughing
        1. nickname 1 and 2
          -6
          25 January 2013 18: 11
          Atlon,

          Support! drinks
          And to the author - SING BIRD SING! hi
    5. Akim
      +2
      25 January 2013 16: 21
      To increase the Black Sea Fleet's combat status, buy a Ukrainian cruiser. What does he eat a million bucks a year without doing.
      1. +5
        25 January 2013 16: 31
        Quote: Akim
        buy a Ukrainian cruiser

        No, it won't work. The principle "what I don't eat, then I bite", has not yet been canceled lol
        1. Akim
          0
          25 January 2013 16: 36
          Quote: lewerlin53rus
          incipient "what I don't eat, then I bite", has not been canceled yet

          I realized: "I don't need a cow - only the neighbor's one is dead!"
          1. mazdie
            0
            25 January 2013 23: 43
            Everything is simple, we will not be able to complete it (((
        2. Avenger711
          -1
          25 January 2013 18: 11
          Yes, there is a madhouse on both sides.
      2. +8
        25 January 2013 16: 35
        Quote: Akim
        buy a Ukrainian cruiser


        Well ... if you give the peninsula to the load, then you can. drinks
        1. Akim
          0
          25 January 2013 16: 40
          vorobey,
          Please do not interfere with me in politics, I have already asked you, because I will also be carried away.
          1. +5
            25 January 2013 16: 49
            Quote: Akim
            Please don't get me involved in politics


            Feed your own cruiser. hi


            Akim, where did I interfere with you? It's a bad thing with humor.
            I'm sorry if I'm not proud.
            1. Akim
              0
              25 January 2013 17: 08
              Quote: vorobey
              Feed your own cruiser.

              I suggested a way to increase firepower. While Russia completes the construction of frigates and corvettes for the Black Sea Fleet, and then almost everything is ready. Since the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine spends money on it, it means cutting is not profitable.
              1. Misantrop
                +4
                25 January 2013 17: 17
                You don't know how to offer a product, that's why they don't take it. And if the name of the cruiser was announced, you look, and you would buy laughing
                1. +4
                  25 January 2013 17: 26
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  that's why they don't take


                  A gift poorly? drinks You still lose money.

                  I wanted to joke about trading in the Motherland, but I feel that Akim will tear me like a heating pad. More serious than ever.
                  Minus him to slap something to raise the mood.
                  1. Akim
                    +3
                    25 January 2013 17: 41
                    GAZ-20M was shown to Stalin in the Kremlin, they said that the name of the car would be "Rodina". He asked:
                    - And how much will your "Motherland" cost? ...
                    1. +4
                      25 January 2013 17: 49
                      Quote: Akim
                      And how much will your "Motherland" cost? ...


                      Well, that's not all as bad as I thought. Akim of Ukraine I adore. My wife is with me, and your mother-in-law is with you. drinks
                      1. mazdie
                        +1
                        25 January 2013 23: 45
                        Probably restricted to travel abroad ???
                  2. +2
                    25 January 2013 18: 17
                    Quote: vorobey
                    A gift poorly? You still lose money

                    If you finish the game, we will sell to China. The Chinese minister of defense .. in Kiev bukalno the other day was. And not Turkey, perhaps, would have been sold long ago.
                    But it is clear that the weapon will have to be removed and sold as a civilian ... a casino ..

                    if only someone else had said whether the Ukrainian Navy has missiles to the Volcanoes.
                    If you can, you can build a couple of coastal missile batteries.
                    1. +2
                      25 January 2013 18: 25
                      Quote: Kars
                      If you play it out, we will sell it to China


                      I will clench my teeth and be silent. so as not to pin up with bison and the Chinese.

                      Hi Andrew.
                      1. Akim
                        0
                        25 January 2013 18: 30
                        Quote: vorobey
                        would not be pinned up with bison and the Chinese.

                        And what kind of joke with the MDK class Zubr?
                      2. -1
                        25 January 2013 18: 30
                        Quote: vorobey
                        so as not to pin up with bison and the Chinese.

                        We are building Bison for the Chinese, we will help them learn how to build Bison themselves. How Antonov helps to build their transport aircraft.

                        If they want to help build cruisers, we will sell ready-made cruisers - there are few such clients, all the Frenchmen left with mistrals.
                        Quote: vorobey
                        Hi Andrew

                        and you are not good enough, ml. Lieutenant --- by the way, it would be a good idea to clean your mail
                        1. +2
                          25 January 2013 18: 35
                          Quote: Kars
                          by the way, it would be a good idea to clean your mail


                          Yes, I already deleted everything a long time ago.

                          when you tried to unsubscribe.
                        2. 0
                          25 January 2013 18: 38
                          about two hours - as the first time that petty officers' shoulder straps saw
                        3. +2
                          25 January 2013 18: 41
                          try now.
                        4. -1
                          25 January 2013 18: 42
                          Quote: vorobey
                          vorobey (3) Today, 18:41 ↑ ↓ new 0
                          try now.


                          no more need a friend moderator
                        5. +2
                          25 January 2013 18: 48
                          Quote: Kars
                          Nevermind friend moderator

                          didn't get the hints.
                          You know my principles. to make sure there was an opportunity.
                          if you're talking about zeroing - everything is easier, third circle.
                          if in doubt, write off with Apollo. He knew about the fact that I would reset.
                          And the word is not a sparrow.
                        6. 0
                          25 January 2013 19: 00
                          Quote: vorobey
                          didn't get the hints

                          no hints
                          Quote: vorobey
                          if you're talking about zeroing

                          could bw ask to introduce the rank of field marshal for a million
                        7. +3
                          25 January 2013 19: 06
                          Quote: Kars
                          could bw ask to introduce the rank of field marshal for a million


                          The field marshals all ended badly.

                          I was not asked to be a moderator, I was appointed

                          if you suspect me of something - your business and difficulties.

                          I have the honor. all the best.
                        8. -1
                          25 January 2013 19: 10
                          Quote: vorobey
                          if you suspect me of something - your business and difficulties

                          You are somehow suspicious. I only noticed after
                          Quote: vorobey
                          vorobey (3) Today, 18:41 ↑ ↓ 0
                          try now.
                        9. +3
                          25 January 2013 21: 14
                          Quote: Kars
                          I only noticed after


                          Okay, let's go, I just still remember about the gang of marshals and immediately said that I would do this. hi

                          All have forgotten.
                        10. VAF
                          VAF
                          +2
                          25 January 2013 21: 10
                          Quote: vorobey
                          I was not asked to be a moderator, I was appointed


                          Sanya, congratulations +! drinks

                          but this now means. that there is a trench to get on the hump not only with a shovel. but .. why is it heavier ????

                          I got into ... in my old age wassat
                        11. +1
                          25 January 2013 20: 30
                          Quote: vorobey
                          if in doubt, write off with Apollo. He knew about the fact that I would reset.



                          I confirm! And the point goodAlthough before the marshal there were some less than 1000 points! IMHO
                        12. Misantrop
                          +2
                          25 January 2013 18: 45
                          Quote: Kars
                          We build the Chinese Bison

                          By the way, last weekend he was already on the run. A nimble machine turns out. And the Chinese invite the factory workers to work, they offer a contract for 5 years. The honor of the shipbuilders has already left - there is little work at the plant. Cousin brother did not go, age is not the same, health may not be enough
                        13. +1
                          25 January 2013 18: 49
                          Quote: Misantrop
                          there is little work at the factory

                          It's a pity the management needs better startups.
                        14. Misantrop
                          +1
                          26 January 2013 00: 03
                          Quote: Kars
                          management needs better startups.

                          While Yulia was in power, she personally cut all contracts for them. She really liked this part of the coast ...
                        15. Akim
                          0
                          25 January 2013 18: 52
                          Quote: Misantrop
                          ... And the Chinese invite the factory workers to work, they offer a contract for 5 years

                          And you think how they completed the "Liaoning". They need to build 2 more "Bison / Bison" houses.
                        16. +4
                          25 January 2013 18: 56
                          Quote: Misantrop
                          And the Chinese invite the factory workers to work, they offer a contract for 5 years. The honor of the ship fitters has already left - there is little work at the plant


                          I don't even know whether to be happy or upset.
                        17. Misantrop
                          +1
                          25 January 2013 22: 51
                          Get upset. Before that, the majority went to work at Almaz in St. Petersburg, but it is now deaf there. The hostel was taken away, the dining room - too, there are few orders. So the people are looking for where to go to work ...
                        18. phantom359
                          0
                          26 January 2013 03: 11
                          Kars, Last year I was in Sevastopol, then "Sagaidachny" and "Donbass" look very much even nothing. (They are in the northern bay, not far from the "Moscow") In the southern bay, all the Russian ships, I will say, are also not in a deplorable state. The only thing I didn’t like was the submarine. Here, yes, a difficult case.
                        19. Misantrop
                          +1
                          26 January 2013 10: 58
                          Quote: phantom359
                          The only thing I didn't like was the submarine. Here, yes, a difficult case.

                          That's just fine with the PL. In the 13th plant, they still managed to put it in order. Now the crew is slowly mastering it. By the way, the crew gained experience on the Alrosa. Politicians scandal, but submariners have nothing to share, they help each other
    6. djon3volta
      +1
      25 January 2013 16: 32
      I’m wondering, when Ukrainians see that there are Russian ships in the Black Sea, what do they think at these moments? two options
      1 is good, I like it, let them swim in our waters, I love Russia.
      2 - this is bad, it doesn’t equal to me, why are they here, let them clean up, I don’t like Russia.
      1. Misantrop
        0
        25 January 2013 17: 46
        Quote: djon3volta
        two options

        The third option: "This is what kind of money! Let them share!" laughing
        1. +3
          25 January 2013 18: 18
          good
          Quote: Misantrop
          This is what money! Let them share! "


          Yes, we didn’t even spare Tuzla for you, but you. By the way, did they forget the border guards there?
          1. Misantrop
            +2
            26 January 2013 11: 11
            Quote: vorobey
            we even Tuzla did not regret for you

            The most disgusting impression on the Crimeans was then made by the Crimean prime minister, S. Kunitsyn. He ran there in camouflage, portraying a great patriot. And then, having become the mayor of Sevastopol, during the year of his leadership, he managed to sell to an English company (bypassing all laws) the entire Baydar Valley, more than 1000 hectares. Here is such a patriot. Now the SBU is trying to rip out a piece back. By the way, the temple being restored in the center of Simferopol is also its feeder.
            1. +2
              26 January 2013 13: 57
              Quote: Misantrop
              in the center of Simferopol, the temple is also its feeder


              The last time I was in Crimea was three years ago. at sea only once got out in Sevastopol in Chersonesos. And so they just walked, walked. How many drove. but Crimea is the only place where you pull back with magical power. There is even a special air.
              drinks
    7. KCC
      KCC
      +5
      25 January 2013 16: 33
      I read it with interest, but the question arises, what will the rest of the Russian armed forces do at this time when our fleet is being killed. I am more than sure they will not look at it calmly. And in general, if such hostilities begin with NATO, then it will not be the fleet that will decide here, but other significant components of the Russian Armed Forces.
      1. Atlon
        -1
        25 January 2013 16: 38
        Quote: KCC
        I read it with interest, but the question arises, what will the rest of the Russian armed forces do at this time when our fleet is being killed.

        Well, how is that? Run on the parade ground shouting "Everything is gone!" boats and 50% of surface ships of the Black Sea Fleet? What are you so little, in fact! Are you asking such things? wink
        By the way, the remaining personnel, submarines and ships will probably have to be transferred to Turkey in the form of indemnities. And Crimea too. However, the "powerful" fleet of Ukraine will probably be against ...
        1. +3
          25 January 2013 16: 44
          If everything is fine with the Black Sea Fleet, then why are we MINUSING each other here?
          Let us shout three times: "Glory to the Black Sea Fleet!", - and move on to discussing other topics ...
          1. Atlon
            -1
            25 January 2013 17: 02
            Quote: zanoza
            If everything is fine with the Black Sea Fleet, then why are we MINUSING each other here?

            "Everything is fine" cannot be by definition. In any area, there are always problems. As for the minuses, this is the maximum that the people consider possible to do ... With this approach, it will soon be as these scribblers write: "Everything is lost!" and "How scary to live!" Everyone is waiting for someone to come and build everything. We'll minus the enemies, and we'll add friends. But no one wants to really go do something.
      2. Misantrop
        +3
        25 January 2013 18: 25
        Quote: KCC
        the question is, what will happen at this time when our fleet is killed to do the rest of the armed forces of Russia.

        What will you do when you see a fire in a skyscraper? It seems that here he is, next to him, but ... fuck you can reach out to help. Are there many airfields in southern Russia to redeploy troops and equipment? And the transport aviation? If the Georgians had time to close the Roki tunnel on 08.08.08, they could not help much either.
        And with the Kursk? It seems that the depth is not prohibitive, but ... the rescue squad in Polyarny is dispersed, the equipment is cut ...
        1. +2
          26 January 2013 06: 11
          Misantrop convincing jingoistic patriots is a useless exercise, they think in other categories. It is believed that empty, unsupported patriotism is enough to win any war. By the way, in case of danger, such people usually do not rush to the embrasures, considering their purpose much more important - to agitate to go to the embrasures of others.
    8. +6
      25 January 2013 16: 39
      The most offensive thing is that apart from Crimea, there are no convenient bays for the Navy on the entire Black Sea coast! everything is smooth and boring! There is a bay in Gelendzhik, so it is shallow! Damn, they gave Crimea to Ukraine! Khrushchov must be spinning like a spindle in his coffin!
      1. +6
        25 January 2013 16: 59
        Here is Tartus, Syria. There is no bay, but there is a port and there are berths that we rent. This is the way to go. And not to discuss nonsense, like: how are we going to take back - only Crimea or the whole of Ukraine, but without Bandera ...
      2. +1
        25 January 2013 17: 00
        And grandfather Stalin is probably a whirligig!
        1. +1
          25 January 2013 17: 44
          Although Yeltsin probably can't sleep well, how much he wasted out during the partition ..
      3. Volkhov
        +2
        25 January 2013 17: 08
        Teller had a plan to make a 6Mt bay in Alaska and a mile-sized bucket ... a dozen of these new buildings would solve all the problems of the fleet.
      4. +3
        25 January 2013 22: 19
        Khrushchev gave Crimea, not Sevastopol. Do not confuse the two concepts. From the day of the formation of Sevastopol and until the day Yeltsin drank it on drink, it never entered the Crimea as an administrative unit. So Sevastopol and the KChF drank not Khrushchev, but YELTSIN.
        1. Misantrop
          +2
          26 January 2013 11: 16
          Quote: serezhasoldatow
          From the day of the formation of Sevastopol and until the day Yeltsin drank it on drink, it never entered the Crimea as an administrative unit
          So he is not included now. All administration, all services, etc. there are completely autonomous. Moreover, there is NOT a SINGLE document on the transfer of Sevastopol to anyone... So we have before us - a classic case of elementary self-capture winked
    9. +2
      25 January 2013 16: 54
      It looks like the Black Sea Fleet was better prepared before 1941! soldier
      1. 0
        25 January 2013 16: 58
        Definitely!
    10. whispering
      +4
      25 January 2013 17: 13
      Well, nevertheless, one should not underestimate Turkey. She's a serious naval power hi
    11. 0
      25 January 2013 17: 16
      Guys, how did the story with "Ukraine" end? something calmed down somehow ..
      1. 0
        25 January 2013 21: 22
        Apparently no one knows ...
      2. Misantrop
        0
        26 January 2013 11: 18
        Quote: ruton
        how did the story with "Ukraine" end?

        It ended in nothing. Standing at the wall of the plant, the crew is trying to keep it from there and rot. It turns out, however, bad ...
    12. +4
      25 January 2013 18: 12
      I think in this region it is necessary to increase the aviation component, and limit the fleet to minesweepers, fire support ships for landing ships, and of the landing forces themselves. This is the role the cruiser Moskva plays on the Black Sea Fleet, but not at all ... in the event of any trouble, it is target number 1, and we neither protect nor hide it ...
      1. +3
        25 January 2013 18: 30
        Quote: ochakow703
        and we can neither protect nor hide ...


        I wrote already - in the reeds of Taman.

        A volley fired across the Bosphorus and over the reeds to change position.
      2. +2
        25 January 2013 20: 14
        I may not understand why, but .. can we stop writing off the ships for needles and we will try to repair and modernize them? Now funds will be freed from 2 Mistrals, can they be used to repair what is there? I mean ships of the 1st and 2nd ranks and pl. If we do not have time to build, and there is no special place, let's repair what we have. We have a lot of ships in reserve and on hold, maybe we need to reconsider the attitude towards them and include them in the fleet financing program?
        1. Misantrop
          +1
          26 January 2013 11: 25
          Quote: ruton
          We have a lot of ships in reserve and on hold
          There were many, the bulk has already been cut. It was not for nothing that a friend called himself "the gravedigger of the Northern Fleet" (he had unloaded the spent active zones before that). Yes, and in Sevastopol on the Black River (cutting plant), there is now silence, everything is cut. A few years ago there was no pushing from the buildings there. So there is not too much that can be restored, money is not needed outrageous
    13. 0
      25 January 2013 18: 38
      The wind blows from the West, and heats up the entire East, the "democrats" want to push someone with their heads, and they themselves will sit on the sidelines. And comrades to rake all this shit!
    14. 0
      25 January 2013 20: 16
      Quote: vorobey
      Well, in order to solve these problems, Crimea at least needs to be returned.
      You are our Siberian bird, a sparrow, just tell me (I-FOR), but how it will be or how it should be ??? Redeem Alaska as amers!
      1. xan
        +2
        25 January 2013 21: 01
        We will return Crimea, we can say we are already returning,
        "God's millstones grind slowly but diligently"
        and there is no need to pay - this is our land in justice
        1. 0
          25 January 2013 21: 21
          Han: How is it? clarify please.
          1. xan
            0
            26 January 2013 21: 03
            the ever-widening gap in the standard of living in Ukraine and ours
    15. +1
      25 January 2013 21: 52
      The author forgot that at one time we burned them on sailing ships, when they already had them on steam boilers. Yes, we all our history were inferior to everyone in technology, so what? Everyone is at war, but Russia is always the winner! Who considers patriotism a refuge for scoundrels, as it was quite recently, why has he forgotten here at all?
      1. Misantrop
        0
        26 January 2013 11: 31
        Quote: Sergey47
        The author forgot that at one time we burned them on sailing ships, when they already had them on steam boilers.

        The author is one of those who believe that it is easier and more convenient to do this with modern serviceable equipment, and it will be cheaper in the lives of his fighters.
        Quote: Sergey47
        Yes, we all our history were inferior to everyone in technology and that? Everyone is at war, but Russia is always the winner!

        Never mind. Buy inflatable mattresses on the trays closest to the beach, and we'll do it. And let us win, not for the first time. So? lol
    16. 0
      25 January 2013 22: 41
      "Only in the spring the snow melts and even the sea has a coast ...". These very shores, more precisely the straits, determine one of the main historical problems for us on the Black Sea. The author practically did not consider this factor at all, reasoning about a hypothetical conflict with Turkey, according to the principle of a chessboard (Black Sea) and the confrontation of figures and pawns on it in the form of a ratio of ships and aircraft. Even with our superiority at sea, the straits are a significant factor, the story with the "Goeben", in the First World War, is instructive here. Russia twice lost its Black Sea Fleet, too, not without the straits factor (the Crimean War, the withdrawal of the Black Sea Fleet into civilian territory by the Whites). It has not been possible to recapture Constantinople from the Turks for a number of historical reasons, and the main "forge" of the Black Sea Fleet in Nikolaev is now not with us. If the capture of modern Istanbul is still from the realm of fantasy, then the solution to the problem of replenishment and repair of ships is an urgent and real need that can and should be solved by involving Ukraine. Little does our leadership work here, it does not work well. Without an alliance, partnership, cooperation with Ukraine, our southern flank is vulnerable, our enemies understand this well, but our rulers should understand even better, trying to tilt the scales in our favor, sparing no effort and money.
      1. +1
        25 January 2013 23: 32
        Yes, our horns will resist, but they will not be friends in this matter .. Again, there will be a tug of war, then we have Ukraine. Remember THREAD. By the way, according to the agreement, they do not allow us to update the fleet there, only by agreement with them.
        1. 0
          26 January 2013 01: 17
          Quote: ruton
          Again, there will be a tug-of-war between us and Ukraine.
          Of course, ruton, not everything is as simple as we would like, but also not hopeless. Politics is based on opportunities, and they are, after all, whoever bargains is bought. The solution to the problem is worth the money spent, where morals and ideas do not work, money works. Ideas, unfortunately, have become few, but there are a lot of corrupt politicians and officials, they can be bought. It may sound cynical, but most issues are solved with the carrot and stick. Russia is a fairly rich country, and the business is worth its costs, we have poured more into Chechnya than, perhaps, would be enough for rapprochement and union with Ukraine.
          1. xan
            +1
            28 January 2013 10: 55
            Per se.,
            wrong, wrong opinion
            I don't need allies for money, especially relatives
            and money can't be solved here - it's like paying a politician to stop being a politician - new ones will immediately replace him
    17. wax
      +3
      26 January 2013 00: 26
      The question of the composition of the Black Sea Fleet is directly related to the nature of possible threats. In my opinion, not a single Black Sea country will allow itself the luxury of going to war with Russia alone. The Turkish coast is only about 600 km from our coast. If there is a war with NATO, then. firstly, the straits will be closed tightly; secondly, the western border from the Baltic to the Black Sea will become a theater of operations. Those. Hence it follows that we need to have a fleet there that will ensure border protection, superiority in local conflicts, as well as against saboteurs, and a shield against Turkish and other submarines. We need ships to demonstrate the flag (as it is now in the Syrian confrontation) in the Mediterranean Sea (but there, like air, we need a base). Something like that.
    18. 0
      26 January 2013 02: 04
      Several years ago, I often visited Sevastopol. Wieder has many more ships with anti-ship missiles than indicated in the article.
      1. Misantrop
        0
        26 January 2013 11: 35
        Quote: Bugivugi
        Wieder has many more ships with anti-ship missiles than indicated in the article.
        This is if you count with those who stand near Coal. Ships are sludge, not in service. recourse
    19. +3
      26 January 2013 02: 20
      Sevastopol is a city of Russian glory, Crimea is watered with Russian blood, should be ours
    20. sprsnc
      0
      26 January 2013 07: 06
      I think that Turkey is sufficiently motivated to bite into Russia, which has turned its back. In the event of a military conflict with China, provided that the country's leadership is "surrendered" to the Strategic Missile Forces.

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