Military Review

The horrendous consequences of the “Serdyukov reform” are not fully realized.

267
The horrendous consequences of the “Serdyukov reform” are not fully realized.New military leadership is just beginning to revise inherited inheritance.


When it comes to talking about former Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov, all one can say is that they are wondering if he will incur adequate punishment for the large-scale embezzlements that flourished in the military department, or he will be able to get off the surface. No doubt, corruption, especially at such a high level, is necessary, as they say, to burn with a hot iron, otherwise this rust will ruin the entire state machine (which has almost happened). But the talk of theft somehow obscures the disastrous consequences of the activities of Mr. Serdyukov’s team for the country's defense capability.

Some of the results of the “Serdyukov reform”, which horrified the new military leadership of the country, have already been canceled. Yesterday, for example, the chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov, holding a meeting in the new Situation Center of the Ministry of Defense, said that Minister Sergei Shoigu decided to return to the higher generals the right to assign military ranks to subordinate officers (up to the colonel inclusive), appoint them to posts and dismiss, issue assignments regulations, and at their discretion, determine their terms of reference. “From 1 in January of 2012 to the present, as you know, only the Minister of Defense took decisions on these issues,” the Chief of the General Staff recalled. As a result, according to Nezavisimaya Gazeta, Shoigu, faced with the need to personally sign travel orders for officers, literally clutched his head: on his desk every day accumulated to 50 000 of such papers.

Valery Gerasimov also announced that the Minister of Defense had approved a plan for the arrangement of military camps for the period of 2013-2014 and for the future up to 2017. “In total, more than 490 military camps have been planned for arrangement in the territory of all military districts, of which 50 is in 2013 year,” the publication says the words of the general. For this purpose, only in 2013 it is planned to build and overhaul 104 modern barracks, 36 canteens, 21 headquarters building, 32 training buildings, 18 medical stations, in total - more than 550 objects.

According to Valery Gerasimov, this will allow “to bring all military camps of the airborne troops with a number of facilities, such as sports complexes, swimming pools, cultural and leisure facilities, in total 16 military towns as a priority, into exemplary condition; the same work should be carried out in 12 military camps on the territory of all military districts, in the remaining military camps planned for improvement this year, to carry out major repairs. ” Approximate costs for the implementation of these activities will be more than 46 billion rubles.

Earlier, we recall, Sergei Shoigu ordered to adjust the "reform" of the military education system, during which only 64 remained in the army instead of 10 universities, and the teaching staff was reduced seven (!) Times, and also declared the need to return officers to the troops, dismissed from there by the Serdyukov team as part of giving the armed forces a “new look”. However, apparently, all these decisions of the current military leadership are only the beginning of the revision of the Serdyukov "reform". Without clearing the Augean stables left by the Serdyukov team, there is no future for our army. However, it is more appropriate to give the floor to an expert - the first vice-president of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, Doctor of Military Sciences Konstantin Sivkov.

Running in circles

The process of reforming the armed forces of Russia has already acquired a continuous character: for about 20 years, they have been undergoing transformation, he noted a few days ago in the Military-Industrial Courier. Each new Minister of Defense and Chief of the General Staff, reminds the expert, taking up his duties, announces the next reorganization of the department in his own way. However, the military reform launched in 2008 in our country surpasses all previous ones in the degree of crushing, including the Yeltsin pogrom of the armed forces.

The expert singles out three fragments of Serdyukov’s “reform” that had the most serious influence on the defense capability of the Russian state:

1. Complete reduction of the formations and units of the frame, the preservation as part of the Russian armed forces of only units and formations of permanent readiness.

2. The reduction of the officer corps by almost two and a half times, the elimination of the institute of midshipmen and ensigns.

3. Replacing the majority of military posts in command and control agencies, formations and units of the rear with civilian personnel, actively introducing commercial support systems into the logistics system.

Mobilization unavailability

The implementation of one of the cornerstones of the reform - the complete reduction of formations and parts of the frame affected mainly ground troops, reminds Konstantin Sivkov. According to the then Chief of the General Staff, Nikolai Makarov, at the time of the start of the transformation, part of the constant readiness made up only 20% of the total number of combat units.

The rest are connections and parts of the frame. According to the “reformers,” the reduction of these military formations, representing inefficient “headquarters and warehouses”, was designed to make it possible to free up considerable funds for maintaining and rearming the remaining ones and thereby supposedly increasing the combat capability of the entire Russian army and, most importantly, reducing its maintenance costs. At the same time, the total strength of the armed forces should have been reduced by 340 000 people - to one million.

As a result of the “reform” conducted, 85 brigades, that is, 12-16 settlement divisions, which account for 3000-4000 kilometers of the land frontier, are left in the number of permanent readiness formations.

The elimination in the course of the “reform” of formations and units of the cadre that were previously intended for deployment in the event of general mobilization, the expert notes, means the destruction of the existing order of increasing the combat and strength of the Russian armed forces in the period of direct alert of the state to conduct the war.

As a result, in the absence of a base for mobilization deployment, the ground forces, at best, having exposed all other directions, can allocate no more than 100 000 people per armed conflict. Thus, Sivkov summarizes, it will be impossible in principle to create a grouping sufficient to wage a local war, since the total number of armed forces is 1 million people, and 500 000 people in such conditions simply cannot be concentrated. The reservists existing in the country are senseless to call for: for them there is neither serviceable armament and military equipment, no necessary stocks of material and technical equipment, or an organizational core for the formation of combat-ready units and formations.

Meanwhile, the expert reminds that the fact that we had 20% of the units of constant readiness meant: with full mobilization deployment Russia could increase the number of combat-ready military formations five times during the threatened period. And if there were such a large number of formations and units of the frame, the ground forces could form a grouping, at least quantitatively enough, to resolve a local war.

So, Sivkov summarizes, before the reform, the Russian armed forces were capable of weapons successfully repel military aggression on a local scale. After the "reform" Serdyukov it became impossible.

Optimization cleaning

In the same direction, measures to reduce by almost two and a half times the number of the officer corps, and the elimination of the institute of midshipmen and ensigns, worked. In this case, the main blow fell on the senior officers. Judging by the published data, the number of colonels was reduced about five times, lieutenant colonels - four times, majors - 2,5 times, captains - 1,8 times. Only the number of senior lieutenants and lieutenants increased (by 5000 people). A loud reduction of senior officers in comparison with these figures is insignificant - approximately by 200 (less than 20% of the existing composition). That is, the most prepared part of the officer corps was knocked out. In total, more than 200 000 officers were fired from the Russian armed forces. Of these, more than half did not meet the deadlines and were dismissed without proper severance pay, and in fact - thrown into the street.

Meanwhile, the expert reminds, a high proportion of officers is noted in the armies of a number of countries, which suggest a significant increase in combat-ready units during wartime. They constitute the personnel reserve for the commanding staff and governing bodies. So, reducing the officer corps on such a scale, the “reformers” destroyed the possibility of restoring the base of the mobilization deployment of Russia: if necessary, none of them would form new administrative structures of the operational and tactical links, the command staff of the new units and formations. No lieutenants will begin to command regiments, brigades and divisions.

Another no less serious consequence of such a pogrom of the officer corps was the loss of the command and staff schools that had developed over the years of our army.

The elimination of the institute of midshipmen and ensigns struck the most prepared middle technical personnel of the armed forces - those who mostly formed the basis of the personnel serving the most sophisticated military equipment.

As a result of all these cuts, not only the officer corps as a single system was crushed, but also the basis of the junior commanders of the Russian armed forces. Often remember the Stalinist purge of the officer corps of the Red Army and the RKKF in the thirties. Compared to the current “optimization”, that cleaning is just a slight misunderstanding, the expert notes.

Rear Commerce

With regard to the transfer of most military, mainly officer positions in government, formations and units of the rear into civilian with the simultaneous active introduction of commercial organizations into the logistics system of the Russian army, the Oboronservis case clearly demonstrated what the commercialization of the armed forces was for and how. The result of this “reform” was the defeat of the rear of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with the subsequent loss of combat capability even by parts of constant readiness. At the same time, as experience has shown, the transfer of logistic support to commercial structures, at least in the smallest part, has increased the corresponding expenses of the military budget and enriched the organization involved for this.

Only a complete amateur in these matters can believe that merchants will successfully cope with the rear support of armed forces during military operations, the expert notes. It is enough to give such an example. Divisions for solving a tactical task within three days with an average intensity of military operations require from four to six design echelons of various supplies; only artillery ammunition for 300 tanks for three days it takes about one and a half estimated levels. And they should be delivered, forming in various parts of the country. Directly in the combat zone, the rear organs will have to fulfill their functions under the powerful fire of the enemy, since isolation of this area is one of the most important tasks in conducting operations by any army in the world. What can commercial organizations do under such conditions? The question is rhetorical.

It is obvious that the elimination of the monstrous consequences of the “reform” of Serdyukov-Makarov will take many years and enormous material costs, Sivkov said. Only on the restoration of military medicine can take five to seven years. And how much time and effort is required to bring the deployment mobilization base to the required state, management and logistic support systems, the organizational and staff structure of the armed forces is difficult to determine at the moment.

Judging by the volume of financing for the development of the Russian army, as well as the direction of the first steps of the new defense minister, the country's leadership is determined to bring order to the military organization of the state, Sivkov said. This makes me happy. The only alarming concern is that the desire to achieve good goals with quick and simple measures, sometimes for the sake of short-term political interest, did not prevent them from relying on the recommendations of military science. It is important that the basis for the further development of the armed forces (namely, development, not reform: already reformed!) Lay down the scientifically based Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation and the Concept of the Armed Forces. And the expert military community of Russia, the expert is sure, will certainly help in this noble cause.
Photos used:
http://ic1.static.km.ru/sites/default/files/imagecache/240x150/img/article/2013/1/22/syper.jpg
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  1. Snegovok
    Snegovok 23 January 2013 16: 02 New
    13
    I think we will remember and disentangle all the actions of Mr. Taburetkin for a long time, but now it is important to minimize the consequences of his activities. And, of course, we follow the development of events in the Oboronservis case.
    1. Aventurinka
      Aventurinka 23 January 2013 16: 15 New
      +9
      Quote: Snegovok
      And, of course, we follow the development of events in the Oboronservis case.

      Witness in Oboronservis case found dead after interrogation
      http://rusplatforma.org/novosti/news4143/
      Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation denied the connection of the deceased top manager with the Oboronservice case
      http://top.rbc.ru/society/23/01/2013/841787.shtml
      And here it’s interesting too
      At the same time, Markin noted that since the case of embezzlement in the Ministry of Defense is very large-scale and new episodes and persons are constantly appearing there, Ameline in the future they could well have been questioned as a witness.
      http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/449436/#ixzz7GlYtcn00
      1. YARY
        YARY 23 January 2013 16: 21 New
        19
        Where will the trial be?
        1. YARY
          YARY 23 January 2013 16: 26 New
          +9
          Only returning supreme measure of social protection, and having begun to apply it in large quantities, and in such cases as affecting the defense department without exception and the possibility of pardon. The country will be able to clear itself of this gangrene.
          1. older
            older 23 January 2013 17: 16 New
            +8
            Quote: Ardent
            Only by returning the highest measure of social protection,
            More than anywhere else in the world, such a measure did not stop thieves and embezzlers .. The Chinese are still shooting periodically their corrupt officials in the squares, but every year ... Only the loss of everything acquired, or rather stolen, can stop it without any discounts ...
            1. YARY
              YARY 23 January 2013 17: 50 New
              +5
              Uv Sergey

              From this point of view - it’s not worth washing, it will still be dirty.
              The fear of potential thieves is the archie’s most important incentive, but the educational component, and the concept of what theft is not a house arrest but a bullet?
              Society must cleanse itself from abomination, and the only way out is the ultimate measure!
              1. YARY
                YARY 23 January 2013 18: 25 New
                +7
                This power alone must understand that if this pinocchio goon is not roughly and severely punished, this power will fall below the plinth in the outhouse.
                Otherwise, no way.
                1. papas-57
                  papas-57 23 January 2013 19: 23 New
                  +5
                  Apparently Medvedev shares with Taburetkin, otherwise where are such statements
                  1. S_mirnov
                    S_mirnov 23 January 2013 19: 38 New
                    12
                    you might think Serdyukov curales in the army on his own whim, kakya naivety!

                    "Judging by the amount of funding for the development of the Russian army, as well as the direction of the first steps of the new Minister of Defense, the country's leadership has a determination to restore order in the military organization of the state."

                    And what, in our country, a new president / prime minister? No?
                    Maybe they decided to restore the destroyed military universities, again not?
                    Maybe they decided to reduce the police and increase the army? And then we have more police than soldiers. Not again?
                    Then what are you talking about? The army is not a separate independent institution, it is part of the state, all organs get sick in the infected organism!
                    Make forecasts yourself ...
                    1. alexdol
                      alexdol 23 January 2013 20: 52 New
                      +4
                      S_mirnov (2) RU "you might think Serdyukov was kuralesil in the army on his own whim, what a naivety!"
                      -------------------------------------------------- -----------
                      Totally agree with you! That's just, unfortunately, it does not reach many of the local visitors ?!
                      1. nycsson
                        nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 39 New
                        +3
                        Quote: alexdol
                        Totally agree with you! That's just, unfortunately, it does not reach many of the local visitors ?!

                        That's for sure! It's a pity! Everyone scolds the Minister of Defense! I will give an example that the Prime Minister is engaged in the destruction of military education! It is in his competence and the MO has nothing to do with it!
                    2. nycsson
                      nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 38 New
                      0
                      Quote: S_mirnov
                      you might think Serdyukov curales in the army on his own whim, kakya naivety!

                      Do not speak! He is a simple performer of someone's will! But the goal was one - it’s the maximum to save on the defense industry!
                    3. Dilshat
                      Dilshat 24 January 2013 01: 20 New
                      0
                      The king is dead. Long live the king!
                  2. Sars
                    Sars 24 January 2013 05: 48 New
                    0
                    Mistral at a triple price they bought a couple!
                2. nycsson
                  nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 36 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Ardent
                  This power alone must understand that if this pinocchio goon is not roughly and severely punished, this power will fall below the plinth in the outhouse.

                  And in my opinion, they do not care about the people for a long time! Otherwise there would be no such lawlessness! Drugs and alcohol have done their dirty deed ......
              2. Quiet
                Quiet 23 January 2013 18: 30 New
                +1
                You are a humanist Sudar .... hi
              3. Ross
                Ross 24 January 2013 02: 27 New
                +1
                YARY,
                Bullet and embezzler are incompatible concepts.
            2. bask
              bask 23 January 2013 17: 54 New
              +4
              Quote: older
              Nowhere in the world did such a measure stop thieves and embezzlers .. The Chinese are still shooting

              The Chinese 1.6 ml. man .. We have the highest measure for bureaucrats-corruption officials. EXACTLY ACT. Maybe not at all but on very very many.
              1. Tersky
                Tersky 23 January 2013 18: 26 New
                +4
                Quote: bask
                .We have the highest measure for corruption officials

                -weaning from the feeder .... alas .. welcome, fellow countryman! (sorry, thought continued)
                1. Quiet
                  Quiet 23 January 2013 18: 58 New
                  +2
                  And so that they live the rest of their lives on the salary of a Tajik janitor ....
              2. S_mirnov
                S_mirnov 23 January 2013 19: 44 New
                +4
                "We have a supreme measure for officials-corruptionists. EXACTLY WILL WORK" - only a total purge of the state apparatus, from the president to the last local deputy.
                Unfortunately, this is possible only if an honest and courageous person who is not afraid to rely on the Russian people stands at the head of the country. Now there is no such person, or we don’t know about him thanks to corrupt media. Now we are witnessing the struggle of pro-Western media with the media of swindlers in power (pseudo-patriotic). Media - the structure is as sick as the vertical of power, the courts, the army and the police. A systemic crisis is when all the components of the state are affected!
                1. nycsson
                  nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 42 New
                  -1
                  Quote: S_mirnov
                  A systemic crisis is when all the components of the state are affected!

                  That's it! Totally agree with you! hi
                2. gold
                  gold 5 February 2013 12: 25 New
                  0
                  it is necessary for the TsAR to choose from worthy intelligent, educated circles (not seen in the administration. apparatus) with unlimited powers and let him punish the negligent! he wouldn’t steal from his mind, but these come for a while and who is faster who more are organizing competitions !!!!
            3. domokl
              domokl 23 January 2013 17: 57 New
              +1
              Quote: older
              Nowhere else in the world did such a measure stop thieves and embezzlers.
              Yt gjcgjhbim // Jlyfrj rfr heccrbq xtkjdtr crf; e /// Vs dj vyjub [dtof [, skb gthdsvb /// Nfr xnj b pltcm djpvj; yj rjuj nj ghbcnheybn ///
            4. Tersky
              Tersky 23 January 2013 18: 27 New
              +3
              Quote: older
              It can only be stopped by the loss of everything acquired, or rather stolen, without any discounts ...

              And moreover, to the seventh knee in kinship ...
            5. nycsson
              nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 34 New
              -2
              Quote: older
              Nowhere else in the world did such a measure stop thieves and embezzlers ..

              Until the end did not stop, but restrained .......
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 23 January 2013 17: 36 New
            +6
            Quote: Ardent
            returning the highest measure of social protection

            This is a one-time promotion. Serdyukov should not be shot (like Gorbachev). And do not plant. There Yulia Tymoshenko sits, but half the country lives worse than its current content. Does hell with such a landing? Put in a cage and carry around the cities. Tickets for viewing are paid. And for the right to spit in the face - a separate ticket. So there is money to revive what he has broken. And the next one is science (so as not to be there)
            1. Quiet
              Quiet 23 January 2013 18: 32 New
              0
              It’s a pity to spend kharchi on him in order to spend it in all cities !!
            2. papas-57
              papas-57 23 January 2013 19: 27 New
              +2
              Tickets are free only. And just knock out the money from Taburetkin (as a last resort, turn to the `` lads '', they have good specialists).
          3. Vadivak
            Vadivak 23 January 2013 18: 57 New
            +5
            Quote: Ardent
            The country will be able to get rid of this gangrene.


            I would apply the Turkish way
            Quote from the movie Gentlemen of Fortune
            But it’s necessary, as they did in Turkey in the old days. They will put a thief in a vat with shit - only his head sticks out - and carry around the city. And above him is a janissary with a sword, and every 5 minutes a ka-ak whack with his sword over the vat. So, if the thief in the vat doesn’t have time to dive, then his head will be off his shoulders.
            1. papas-57
              papas-57 23 January 2013 19: 28 New
              +1
              Shit in the dermis won't drown
              1. Vadivak
                Vadivak 23 January 2013 20: 58 New
                +1
                Quote: papas-57
                Shit in the dermis won't drown

                So will be left without a head
            2. FATEMOGAN
              FATEMOGAN 23 January 2013 22: 48 New
              +2
              23.01.2013 / 21: 21
              DEFENSE MINISTRIES OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION REFUSED ITALIAN ARMORED EQUIPMENT

              The Russian Ministry of Defense does not intend to renew the contract for the purchase of armored vehicles of the Italian company Iveco, Colonel-General Vladimir Chirkin, Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of Russia, said on Wednesday.

              “The contract for the further purchase of these vehicles (Iveco armored vehicles) with Italy has been suspended. What has already been paid, we have almost taken it all away, we are collecting it, we will use it, we will not buy more, ”Chirkin said, RIA Novosti reports.

              According to him, Russia also refused to purchase Italian Centauro wheeled tanks ("Centaur"), the tests of which are now being conducted at the Kubinka training ground. Several samples of these machines were purchased for testing, but the Ministry of Defense did not plan to purchase them.


              there was such news tonight that I can’t even believe it, if I understood correctly, the "Lynx" will wave their hand and be sent to Italy, drinks Shoigu had already managed in a couple of three months to bring more benefit and order to the army than Serdyukovsky for all his leadership years.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 23 January 2013 22: 52 New
                -1
                Do not rejoice that the military was left without vehicles with protection against landmines. Shoigu lay down under Deripaska - I do not think this is good news.
                1. sniper
                  sniper 23 January 2013 22: 59 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  Do not rejoice that the military was left without vehicles with protection against landmines.

                  Lynx can protect from something, if it can get ... It's the same SUV, overloaded with armor ...
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 23 January 2013 23: 04 New
                    -1
                    Where to "get"?
                    1. sniper
                      sniper 23 January 2013 23: 11 New
                      +1
                      To a land mine ... She’ll get stuck along the way ...
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 23 January 2013 23: 14 New
                        0
                        Deripaska's PR people will not lie?
                      2. sniper
                        sniper 23 January 2013 23: 30 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        PR managers Deripaska

                        Yes, what do you mean ... didn’t you see the video on the Internet?
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 23 January 2013 23: 39 New
                        -2
                        "Video" of what? A patrol car driven into deep snow for some reason? And why he was not driven into the mud, in which the tanks bogged down, too, nothing would have turned out frames.
                        Better yet, he stuck a T-72 and a tankman asking the MT-LB carrier to take him to his colleagues so that he could be pulled out. After all, the mud league does not care. By the way, why do we need tanks, on the cross-country MT-LB is better ..
            3. FATEMOGAN
              FATEMOGAN 24 January 2013 00: 03 New
              +1
              if only now the real patency of the "Lynx" has officially surfaced, then there may be doubts about the opposite defense, how did Serdyukov conduct them there ......? , so do not overestimate this machine, which the troops were unhappy with. "Tiger" will perfectly replace her.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 24 January 2013 00: 34 New
                0
                But only the Tiger has no mine protection. He is essentially an expensive armored UAZ, created for the UAE army and strenuously pushed into ours.
                1. FATEMOGAN
                  FATEMOGAN 24 January 2013 01: 12 New
                  +1
                  where did you get that there is no anti-mine defense?
                  - "Tiger-M" VPK-233114 - a new design of axles with forced locking of differentials, new brakes, an auxiliary mountain brake with a pneumatic drive, an air conditioning system, a filter-ventilation unit FVU-100A-24, a preheater with increased productivity PZhD-16 (power - 16 kW). Opening armored sunroof, armored glass lowering. Bolt locks were installed on the doors and the door sealing system was improved. Armored corps are serially produced by the Military-Industrial Complex Corps Plant (Vyksa, Nizhny Novgorod).
                  Reservation for STANAG 4569:
                  - ballistic - level 3
                  - mine action - level 2A
                  2a according to STANAG, i.e. undermining of a mine (6 kg) of push action under the wheel
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 24 January 2013 01: 21 New
                    0
                    where did you get that there is no anti-mine defense

                    Since she is not there. Including the Tiger-M
                    You misled yourself.
                2. Dilshat
                  Dilshat 24 January 2013 01: 27 New
                  0
                  But what is the best bookmarking technique and surprises from a NATO member?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 24 January 2013 01: 32 New
                    0
                    What "bookmarks" can there be in patrol cars?
                  2. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 24 January 2013 01: 38 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    What "bookmarks" can there be in patrol cars?

                    Elementary. When transferring (for example) to a different type of lubricant different from the proprietary one, the engine or transmission responds with a catastrophic reduction in resource. While riding on a regular, you’ll guess about this horseradish. The slightest interruption in supplies - get a pile of scrap metal instead of equipment
                  3. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 24 January 2013 01: 48 New
                    0
                    And why do cunning Italians need this? Show potential importers that it’s not worth having a deal with them?
                  4. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 24 January 2013 18: 08 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    And why do cunning Italians need this?

                    It seems that the question sounded: "What can be ..." One of the most elementary answers. Why is another question. The answer is equally simple: "To promote your brand" (for example, oils). This technique is generally recognized and is carried out by all world manufacturers, to a greater or lesser extent (for whom it is possible). And the disgruntled customer is sent on an erotic journey on foot with a careless gesture of one finger. Buried in the instruction manual. In which it is written in large: "The use of lubricants not listed in this manual is prohibited." It's strange that even this is news to you. wink

                    And about more serious bookmarks can tell the one who orders them and pays. In addition, being left with a mountain of scrap on the eve of the war is somehow full of other concerns besides making claims
        2. sniper
          sniper 24 January 2013 01: 43 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          "Tiger" will perfectly replace her.

          Not a fact ... A tiger with mine protection on the 6th grade seems to have not yet ... And even in our car industry it is not very trusted ... There is a circle of ruin.
    2. Dilshat
      Dilshat 24 January 2013 01: 24 New
      0
      2 times, the king is dead. Long live the king!
  • older
    older 23 January 2013 17: 14 New
    +2
    Quote: Ardent
    Where will the trial be?
    Alas, in my opinion Serdyukov is unlikely to survive ... Or a heart attack or abroad ....
    1. VAF
      VAF 23 January 2013 17: 36 New
      +5
      Quote: older
      Or a heart attack or abroad ...


      It will then be a recognition of that. that Tandem was the same here ... "in business"!

      Only ..... recognition stool-patient!

      As in that famous film ... ".. I'm not guilty ... he came himself" but here it will be ... well, the person did not know. everything past him. because he did everything right ???? (I did not overestimate the words of the great and Almighty wassat )
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 46 New
        0
        Quote: vaf
        It will then be a recognition of that. that Tandem was the same here ... "in business"!

        But isn't that clear?
    2. domokl
      domokl 23 January 2013 17: 59 New
      +4
      Quote: older
      Serdyukov is unlikely to survive
      If Putin gave the green light to the investigation, realizing what forces will oppose, then he feels his strength and ability to confront ... They will protect Serdyukov, otherwise Putin’s image will end ...
      1. older
        older 23 January 2013 18: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: domokl
        . Serdyukov will be protected, otherwise Putin’s image will end
        I agree ... Serdyukov is just a test ball .. Then it should be even worse ...
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 51 New
          0
          Quote: older
          Serdyukov is just a test ball .. Then it should be even worse ...

          It depends on who is afraid of someone ........ There was an interesting article about the confrontation between Russian elites .... found .....

          Russia has entered a decisive phase in the struggle of two power groups
          http://warfiles.ru/show-17707-rossiya-vstupila-v-reshayuschuyu-fazu-borby-dvuh-v
          lastnyh-gruppirovok.html
          Corruption scandals emerge in the press one by one. First, Serdyukov's Oboronservice, followed by the loss of funds from the APEC summit, and now they finally got to GLONASS and RKS, and now Sergei Ivanov makes a helpless gesture and pretends that he has just learned about the theft. It may seem that the country's leadership is trying to restore order by exposing obvious corruption schemes.
          1. Dilshat
            Dilshat 24 January 2013 01: 33 New
            0
            whoever did evil to Russia using his official position and power and being a citizen of Russia must die. It doesn’t matter if he was shot or had a heart attack so that others wouldn’t be habituated. How are the Greeks there? His soul will not rest until the criminal is punished. .
      2. nycsson
        nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 48 New
        -2
        Quote: domokl
        Serdyukov will be protected, otherwise Putin’s image will end ...

        He put it and he led it during the reform of the army! Is this still not clear to someone?
        Quote: domokl
        If Putin gave the green light to the investigation, realizing what forces will resist, then he feels his strength and the ability to withstand ...

        Yes, this consequence will not give anything! They will plant a couple of sixes and that’s all ..... Everything is in their hands .......
        1. Cheloveck
          Cheloveck 23 January 2013 22: 22 New
          -1
          Quote: nycsson
          He put it and he led it during the reform of the army! Is this still not clear to someone?
          The trouble is that with us a small part of the population is capable of thinking independently, the rest thinks as a zombie hunter.
          1. nycsson
            nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 54 New
            -1
            Quote: Cheloveck
            The trouble is that with us a small part of the population is capable of thinking independently, the rest thinks as a zombie hunter.

            I agree with you! It cannot be explained otherwise! crying
        2. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 23 January 2013 22: 34 New
          -2
          But it is worth a little to correct the title of the article, something like this "The monstrous consequences of" Putin's reform "are not fully realized" and it will already be a bomb! Although everyone knows about Chihara, they are afraid of losing stability.
          1. nycsson
            nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 55 New
            -1
            Quote: S_mirnov
            something like this "The monstrous consequences of" Putin's reform "are not fully realized" and it will already be a bomb!

            It will be the TRUTH ..........
            1. S_mirnov
              S_mirnov 23 January 2013 23: 56 New
              0
              The truth is not popular now, you can not even imagine what kind of tales are now coming up with the followers of VVP in order to whitewash the "people's elected", H. Wells is resting, read here:
              http://newsbabr.com/?IDE=111569
              And after all, everything is true about dependence on America, but there is one "partisan" in the Kremlin ... laughing , here it’s just ridiculous.
              1. nycsson
                nycsson 24 January 2013 09: 36 New
                -1
                Quote: S_mirnov
                http://newsbabr.com/?IDE=111569

                Read it! I'm in shock! Such insanity ....... wassat
    3. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: older
      Alas, in my opinion Serdyukov is unlikely to survive ... Or a heart attack or abroad ....

      No offense will be given to him. He is a simple performer.
  • Quiet
    Quiet 23 January 2013 18: 28 New
    +3
    The real art of the executioner in the past and the century before last, was considered- Put a person on a stake so that the stake went into the anus and went out in the area of ​​the clavicle. Without hitting vital organs. Such a death was very painful and sometimes lasted up to two or even three days.
    ... and this is the easiest death he deserved negative
  • Retx
    Retx 23 January 2013 16: 46 New
    13
    Well what can I say
    1. Tersky
      Tersky 23 January 2013 16: 53 New
      +7
      Mala, that colleague, he will also be affected ....
      1. VAF
        VAF 23 January 2013 17: 38 New
        +3
        Quote: Tersky
        he will also be affected.


        Wii. Hello! Just wrote about it above, that's strange huh? We live hell knows at what distance. but the thoughts are exactly the same? +! wink
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 23 January 2013 18: 22 New
          +3
          Quote: vaf
          We live hell knows at what distance. but the thoughts are exactly the same? +!

          Seryoga, hello !! Well, it’s not like fools laughing , then we think the same way drinks !!
      2. nycsson
        nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 56 New
        -1
        Quote: Tersky
        Mala, that colleague, he will also be affected ....

        Of course it turns out who steered it? wassat
      3. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 23 January 2013 22: 36 New
        0
        Blame the women in uniform, seduced the baby stsuki!
    2. Papakiko
      Papakiko 23 January 2013 16: 58 New
      +1
      "Brotherhood" does not give its own!
      "Even with the adoption of a sex change, they will help and arrange for a "new" job.
      New Secretary of Defense WOMAN.
      Reforms have reached the darkest nooks and never when the army was not so kindly as under the new Defense Minister "

      God forbid from this! belay
      1. Quiet
        Quiet 23 January 2013 18: 54 New
        0
        Even with the adoption of a sex change, they will help and arrange for a "new" job. laughing

        With such a thick ass as a woman’s, only to Leningdadka, so that he would work out ALL DAMAGES inflicted by the ARMED FORCES OF RUSSIA on a point to the end of his days.
    3. older
      older 23 January 2013 17: 18 New
      +3
      Indeed, the turn is unexpected, but quite satisfying everyone and everything ... And the wolves (army men) are fed and the sheep (senior officials who are bound by mutual responsibility) are intact ....
      1. domokl
        domokl 23 January 2013 18: 00 New
        0
        Quote: Papakiko
        "Brotherhood" does not give its own!
        It’s renting as ... At the first jump ... laughing
    4. military
      military 23 January 2013 17: 28 New
      +2
      Hinstein is clearly not sitting ... itching is bursting ...laughing
      in order to fall under such a program, the stool must express and certify to the investigation its full readiness to leak information to its "patron" ... how is he there? ... forgot his last name ... repeat
      it is mortally dangerous not only for the stool, but also for those who will listen to it and keep the protocol ... winked
      1. VAF
        VAF 23 January 2013 17: 41 New
        +3
        Quote: military
        on his "patron" ... how is he there? ... forgot his last name ..


        Or maybe ... for two .. "rounds". that's the same ... somehow their names flew out of memory ... although the country should know ... its "heroes"! +! bully
        1. military
          military 23 January 2013 17: 54 New
          0
          Quote: vaf
          Or maybe ... for two .. "rounds". that's the same ... somehow their names flew out of memory ... although the country should know ... its "heroes"! +!

          this "pair of patrons" is well known to the country ... laughing + + + drinks
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 01 New
          0
          Quote: vaf
          Or maybe ... for two .. "rounds". that's the same ... somehow their names flew out of memory ... although the country should know ... its "heroes"! +!

          Rumor has it that a split between them ....... wassat
      2. nycsson
        nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 00 New
        -1
        Quote: military
        in order to fall under such a program, the stool must express and certify to the investigation its full readiness to leak information to its "patron" ... how is he there? ... forgot his last name ...

        laughing No options! Let go into the flow immediately! laughing
        Quote: military
        it is mortally dangerous not only for the stool, but also for those who will listen to it and keep the protocol ...

        Laughing out loud! Here comedy is played out ...... wassat
    5. VAF
      VAF 23 January 2013 17: 37 New
      -1
      Quote: RETX
      Well what can I say


      What was required to prove, or rather, that was quite .. expected !!! +! bully
    6. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 23 January 2013 18: 07 New
      0
      Here's more information to think about the future of the country and the army:
      "... However, if the current president does not go for the 4th term, then Medvedev would like to lead Russia

      Moscow, January 23 - AIF-Moscow. Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said he would refuse to participate in the elections if incumbent President Vladimir Putin goes to them.

      “I think that would be wrong. It's impossible. We are one political force, why should we compete? ”Medvedev said in an interview with Bloomberg.

      At the same time, the current head of government stressed that he does not hide his presidential ambitions: “I have already entered this river once. Why not enter it again. " ... "
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 03 New
        -2
        Quote: There was a mammoth
        “I think that would be wrong. It's impossible. We are one political force, why should we compete? ”Medvedev said in an interview with Bloomberg.

        I didn’t have time to take the oath, it’s already preparing new ground under my feet! wassat
    7. Quiet
      Quiet 23 January 2013 18: 35 New
      0
      Chikatilo in the grave with envy tossing and turning .....
    8. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 55 New
      -2
      Quote: RETX
      Well what can I say

      Mock us as they want! Well, why not, since we allow it ..... wassat
      GDP in the elections did not even come to debate, sent proxies, 60% scored ...... wassat
  • Tersky
    Tersky 23 January 2013 16: 55 New
    +3
    Quote: Aventurinka
    Witness in Oboronservis case found dead after interrogation

    none other than heart failure ... wink
    1. older
      older 23 January 2013 17: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: Tersky

      Avatar Marshal
      online
      Tersky Today, 16: 55 ↑ new
      - 0 +
      Quote: Aventurinka
      Witness in Oboronservis case found dead after interrogation

      heart failure ... wink
      The best way out for all our top management ... fellow
      1. domokl
        domokl 23 January 2013 18: 02 New
        -2
        Quote: older
        The best way out for all our top management ..
        Alas, for many, really Serdyukov turned into a time bomb ... Will tell or will not tell ...
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 05 New
          -2
          Quote: domokl
          Will tell or not tell ...

          Yes, everything is clear! There was a split in the Russian elite, otherwise we did not observe all this! Remember the movie when Medvedev was watered with mud during the conflict in Georgia!
  • older
    older 23 January 2013 17: 13 New
    +2
    The article is beautifully written, and most importantly with knowledge of the matter .. Thank you to the author! Indeed, the result of the reform was a reduction in the officers .. Captains leave almost in full force, the contract ends .... The complete loss of mobilization resources and the elimination of the initial military training of pre-conscription youth .. . Destruction or sale of most objects, the army .. And last, the liquidation of the Russian military-industrial complex ... I said at the beginning of that year how difficult it would be to implement the state defense order, these same difficulties remain ...
    1. domokl
      domokl 23 January 2013 18: 04 New
      -1
      Quote: older
      Indeed, the result of the reform was the reduction of the officers .. Captains leave almost in full force, the contract ends .... The complete loss of mobilization resources and the elimination of the initial military training of pre-conscription youth ... Destruction or sale of most objects, the army
      This is only the tip of the iceberg ... After all, there are still the heads of the garrison, the commanders of the units who warmed their hands on Serdyukov reforms, albeit to a lesser extent, but quite decently ...
    2. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 12 New
      -1
      Quote: older
      The article is beautifully written, and most importantly with knowledge of the matter .. Thanks to the author!

      He served from an urgent soldier to a company commander! The author is well done, subscribe to every word! When he was a company commander, the last three years, just fell under this restructuring! I had calls for 2 of the year, then switched to one and a half, and then to one! Full tin! The soldiers come to serve from the monthly quarantine, they don’t know how to get out of order, etc., and they need to put him on the equipment after a month of additional training! And as a rule, they break everything for the first half of the year, and only then they are good at it ...... So it turns out that the parts are not equipped most of the time, but the doctor is not trained! am
  • Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 16: 20 New
    -11
    Quote: Snegovok
    I think we will remember and disentangle all the actions of Mr. Taburetkin for a long time, but now it is important to minimize the consequences of his activities. And, of course, we follow the development of events in the Oboronservis case.

    He didn’t harm defense, but what they dragged away, they dragged him before him, only those who in uniform they scribbled when it went past them
    1. strannik595
      strannik595 23 January 2013 16: 57 New
      +3
      50 thousand travel certificates daily !!!!!!!!! ????? this is our army mobile, just some kind of shuttles laughing
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 23 January 2013 17: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: strannik595
        this is our mobile army

        And if you turn on your head? For a little while. A travel order is required to leave the unit (garrison). In fact, this moron put the entire army under a kind of "house arrest". What the hell is the permission to carry weapons to an officer, then it was forbidden to leave the checkpoint without the knowledge of this
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 23 January 2013 18: 26 New
          +1
          Quote: Misantrop
          What the fuck permission for an officer to carry,

          Was such permission ever required? If we are talking about personal weapons, of course. Pipeean, survived!
      2. Quiet
        Quiet 23 January 2013 19: 28 New
        +1
        Apparently everyone was equipped with boots-walkers ....
      3. papas-57
        papas-57 23 January 2013 19: 33 New
        +1
        Is it that every twentieth every day he went somewhere? Do not make me laugh. Or is it a new kind of part-time job (or wage-earning)
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 24 January 2013 01: 22 New
          0
          Quote: papas-57
          Is it that every twentieth every day he went somewhere?

          Previously, every 5th "went somewhere" at least once a week. This is only in the troops (not a shot), and everything is on business.
          Not at all funny. Service, however. I don’t know what the headquarters and quartermasters have there.
    2. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 23 January 2013 17: 00 New
      +7
      Mr. KIRGIZ! Do you understand anything at all about the question that you have so "cleverly" spoken about? I have doubts that you ever stood near the army.
      1. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 17: 32 New
        -3
        Quote: AleksUkr
        Mr. KIRGIZ! Do you understand anything at all about the question that you have so "cleverly" spoken about? I have doubts that you ever stood near the army.

        But do you think that the system under which the conscript did three times in two years and dug up 24 foundations, peeled 10000 potatoes and consumed 5 kg of paint was tested and reliable? When the generals are more versed in the repair of plumbing communications of the entrusted part than in the principles of the use of digital technologies in defense, of course we are invincible.
        1. tupolev-95
          tupolev-95 23 January 2013 18: 29 New
          +3
          What has changed? Do you think under Serdyukov everyone began to engage in intensive combat training? He mowed down more than half of the officers. Who will transfer experience to lieutenants? Those who were in "nourishing" positions agreed with whom they needed and everything was in order, and mere mortals flew out the window and you cannot replace them with sergeants - the sergeant does not know so much, and I am not a single super duper contractor sergeant until we saw it alive in our unit. They send conscripts to these positions and I have already pulled up to teach them in 2 months that it is necessary to teach 3 years.
          1. Kyrgyz
            Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 19: 04 New
            -2
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            What has changed?

            Material technical condition has become better, except for form
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            Do you think that under Serdyukov everyone began to engage in intensely combat training?

            Well, much more
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            He mowed down more than half of the officers. Who will transfer experience to lieutenants?

            Many degraded from idleness and hopelessness and were not able to remain in the system
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            Those who were in "nourishing" positions agreed with whom they needed and everything was in order

            So you can't always knock out these quickly and they basically trample Serdyuk, they are always in the "right channel"
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            and mere mortals flew into the window and the sergeants can’t replace them, so many sergeants don’t know, and I haven’t seen a single sergeant-super-duper contractor alive

            Wood chips are flying, now some will be taken back
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            They send conscripts to these posts, and I have already lifted up to teach them in 2 months what 3 years should be taught.

            Quote: Tupolev-95
            They send conscripts to these posts, and I have already lifted up to teach them in 2 months what 3 years should be taught.

            The one who does nothing is not mistaken
            1. Quiet
              Quiet 23 January 2013 19: 36 New
              +2
              Well, much more

              That you so believe zomboyaschiku ??? I feel sorry for you.....

              Wood chips are flying, now some will be taken back

              The pros have a sense of their own worth. Not everyone will return. Many were in demand in "civilian life" ....
              1. nycsson
                nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 24 New
                -2
                Quote: Quiet
                The pros have a sense of their own worth. Not everyone will return. Many were in demand in "civilian life" ....

                Of course not all! The funny thing is how they promoted a pay raise! And about the fact that the officer was deprived of all privileges, even travel to the place of vacation, no one said a word! Some even remained in the red! So the most important thing: of the 5 officers left 2, and the duties of 3 laid off passed on these remaining 2! am
            2. tupolev-95
              tupolev-95 23 January 2013 20: 02 New
              +3
              "The material technical condition has become better, except for the form" - what was, it remained, not a single bolt was sent "Well, they began to do more" - they began to show more on TV and present everything with pomp "Many degraded from idleness and despair and they were no longer able to stay in the system "- they were fired not according to these criteria" So you can't always knock out these quickly and they basically trample Serdyuk, they are always in the "right channel" - they just made a good profit, he poured a golden rain on them, one order number 400 of what it cost "The woods are chopping chips fly, now some will be taken back" - but why were they kicked out? Human destinies are not chips "He who does nothing is not mistaken" - it would be better if he did nothing
            3. nycsson
              nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 20 New
              -2
              Quote: Kyrgyz
              The one who does nothing is not mistaken

              Wow mistakes! negative
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 19 New
          -2
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          Do you think that the system under which the conscript did three times in two years and dug out the 24 foundation, cleaned the 10000 potatoes and consumed 5 kg of paint was tested and reliable?

          Do not exaggerate! And you think that now they’re not sweeping and there are no outfits! Yes, this Slav only launders loot!
    3. rapid1934
      rapid1934 23 January 2013 18: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      Defenses he did not harm

      Read the article again. Not everything is written in it.
      If you remain with your opinion, then you are an alien. hi
      1. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 19: 05 New
        -4
        Quote: rapid1934
        Read the article again.

        I read, she is engaged
        1. Cheloveck
          Cheloveck 23 January 2013 19: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          I read, she is engaged

          And you do not accidentally share?
          1. Kyrgyz
            Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 19: 29 New
            -2
            Quote: Cheloveck
            And you do not accidentally share?

            No i'm an honest man soldier
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 25 New
          -2
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          I read, she is engaged

          It remains for you to sympathize! fool
    4. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 15 New
      -2
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      He didn’t harm defense

      Do not say nonsense!
  • starshina78
    starshina78 23 January 2013 18: 01 New
    +2
    The guilt of Serdyukov, as our President said, will be proved by the court. Well, let it be so, since Putin does not have the courage to call Serdyukov a thief and embezzler. But the question arises: "Why are they not being held accountable for officials who, all the time, the reforms in the army and the navy, praised Serdyukov, talking about his efficiency and ability to conduct business, about the correctness of the decisions made, did not agree with this method of reforming, paid attention to complaints, rallies, publications in the media about excesses and failure of the reform? Why? " Who appointed Serdyukov as Minister - Medvedev, who supported and praised him - Medvedev (being President), and then who also began to praise him? Putin! So they are also responsible, and what about the "correct" reform?
    1. Quiet
      Quiet 23 January 2013 19: 41 New
      0
      And why are they not holding officials accountable who praised Serdyukov all the time during reforms in the army and navy?

      For example, Ivanov. Many remember the interview in which he openly admitted that he knew about the collapse of the army, BUT SILENT. Silently supposedly so as not to frighten off-baby talk ....
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 26 New
        -2
        Quote: Quiet
        For example, Ivanov.

        Fine swimming ....... laughing
  • aleksandrik
    aleksandrik 23 January 2013 20: 10 New
    -3
    I think we will remember and disentangle all the actions of Mr. Taburetkin for a long time, but now it is important to minimize the consequences of his activities. And, of course, we follow the development of events in the Oboronservis case.


    Yeah of course, let's return 2 years of service, hazing, peeling potatoes and mopping, the ability to attract soldiers to the construction of general dachas! good
  • Civil
    Civil 23 January 2013 20: 15 New
    -1
    Reached the hand of the damned Serdyukov from retirement:

    [quote] Military-industrial courier. The representative Russian delegation, which included representatives of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS of Russia), Rosoboronexport, and Sukhoi, discussed at the Beijing talks the purchase by China of a new Russian multi-role fighter Su-35.

    "The result of the negotiations was the signing of a joint document that actually gives a green light to the promotion of the Su-35 on the Chinese market," a military diplomatic source said on Wednesday. [/ Quote]

    [quote] LOOK, January 22. Russia agreed to sell 36 Tu-22M3 bombers to Beijing in the amount of $ 1,5 billion, Western media reported citing unnamed Chinese Internet resources.

    In Chinese naval aviation, the machine will be called the H-10, writes Business Insider.

    The deal with Russia involves the transfer to China of 36 vehicles in two batches - 12 and 24 bombers. / Quote]
  • nycsson
    nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 11 New
    -1
    I just don’t understand one thing! Is this reform led by Serdyukov alone? Logically, he was fulfilling someone’s ideas and plans! request What efficiency can we talk about when everything is stolen! Such an impression. that they were faced with the task of stealing and saving as much as possible! But you can’t save on the army !!! Where were all the generals?
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 23 January 2013 21: 53 New
      0
      Quote: nycsson
      I just don’t understand one thing! Is it possible that this reform was led by Serdyukov alone
      You know the answer. Serdyukov henchman, performer. Ask, better, who is the customer of this "army headset" called "reform" from Serdyukov. Maybe the Zhukovsky Academy or the headquarters of the Navy will be returned to its place? Also, after all, the sale of buildings in fact ... Well, I would have stolen a billion, but brought ten benefits, no, they will steal a billion, ten, a hundred, harm. Where the loot goes into them, this, apparently, is already a clinic. I don’t want to think that we do not have a personality in our power, with historical, sovereign ambitions, and so, one punks, that tyrit billions in their pockets, taking advantage of the opportunity.
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 58 New
        -1
        Quote: Per se.
        I don’t want to think that we don’t have a personality in our power, with historical, sovereign ambitions, and just one punks that pockets billions in our pockets, taking this opportunity.

        Exactly........ hi
  • Dilshat
    Dilshat 24 January 2013 01: 17 New
    0
    They let the goat into the garden. And what did the tandem not know that he worked for several years in the Moscow Region? If the article is true, it turns out that Mr. Serdyukov was an agent of the CIA. And what? An agent of the CIA would not do more harm than him. So it turns out it should not even be shot and hanged.
  • SSR
    SSR 23 January 2013 16: 10 New
    0
    Quote: Snegovok
    And, of course, we follow the development of events in the Oboronservis case.

    I personally still have a hope that ... specifically Sir Dyukov ... will be punished.
    Yes, and officials will start to squeeze the thief .. and then look at it all ....... as if a completely different people didn’t take to the streets ... throwing out the swamp hamsters and the current government ...
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 16: 21 New
      -1
      Quote: SSR
      I personally still have a hope that ... specifically Sir Dyukov ... will be punished.

      If they prove, but he’s not stupid and they won’t prove, but of course they will punish some
  • alexng
    alexng 23 January 2013 16: 12 New
    +7
    Yes, it is necessary not only to put this stool on flour, but also those that protect it, for example, AI-PADLU too. Both on trickery God forbid.
    1. bask
      bask 23 January 2013 16: 59 New
      11
      Quote: alexneg

      Yes, it is necessary not only to put this stool on flour, but also those that protect it, for example, AI-PADLU too. Both on trickery God forbid.

      To the traitors of the Motherland .. Only one Court and the execution of the sentence .. On the square publicly .. that would be disgraceful to others.
  • omsbon
    omsbon 23 January 2013 16: 14 New
    +5
    We all really hope for the honesty and professionalism of S.K. Shaigu. He has to not an easy battle, but a hard battle!
    And Serdyukov - soap, rope, stool! (Do it yourself.)
    1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
      GELEZNII_KAPUT 23 January 2013 17: 05 New
      -1
      Will not, the gut is thin! No.
  • Tersky
    Tersky 23 January 2013 16: 16 New
    +6
    New military leadership is just beginning to revise inherited inheritance.- it will be more correct: REMAINING inheritance ...
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 28 New
      -2
      Quote: Tersky
      it will be more correct: the REMAINING inheritance ...

      Yeah! Good little! God forbid if someone attacks us ..........
  • Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 16: 17 New
    -6
    You might think that before Serdyukov there was an exemplary department with moderate thefts, Serdyukov turned up a viper, pushed people accustomed to dragging them away from the feeder with impunity, turned out dirty linen, launched a program of necessary transformations of the system created by Zhukov, probably, he went over something but of general benefit there would be something more from his predecessors, starting with Grachev, greed and women ruined him of course, although his interest has not been proven, but he will land nothing on the reserve, he will not sit down
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 23 January 2013 17: 45 New
      +2
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      in general benefit it will be more than from its predecessors
      So that you would have such a benefit from the legislators, what from the activities of the furniture maker for the armed forces. To REALLY evaluate it turned out. Before it was simply stolen, the same one created the SYSTEM
      1. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 17: 51 New
        -3
        Quote: Misantrop
        the same one created the SYSTEM

        But didn’t they trace the system and now all the links are shining? The system is always easier to deal with than lawlessness, the system can be controlled.
        But when they simply steal it badly, losses are unpredictable; there is no control over the situation; there is no one to press
        1. Garrin
          Garrin 23 January 2013 21: 16 New
          0
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          But didn’t they trace the system and now all the links are shining?
          I would say they do not shine, but rather retouch and obscure. And then they took it, lit it, and then they themselves got scared.
    2. rapid1934
      rapid1934 23 January 2013 20: 00 New
      0
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      but in general it will be more useful from him than from predecessors

      Well, really an alien .........
      Nobody before him brought so much damage to the army and the defense capabilities of Russia.

      Quote: Kyrgyz
      but he is not stupid and will not prove

      He is a complete idiot and will be able to evade responsibility only if they cover him from above.
    3. Quiet
      Quiet 23 January 2013 20: 17 New
      -1
      the people accustomed to pull away from the feeder with impunity

      And he began to steal and eat with his mouth and ass ... afraid that he wouldn’t have time to retire ....
  • Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 23 January 2013 16: 20 New
    12
    This is what we talked about at meetings, conferences, in smoking rooms. They said that no one in their right mind and solid memory would cut the goose that lays the golden eggs. Well, we have a wise leadership, which day and night, "like a galley slave" cares about its country, that this leadership knows everything and it is just about to explain the terrible secret, according to which the army is destroyed in the trash. .. And instead of that, on the zombie, in the press and on the radio, they enthusiastically broadcast about the "small, mobile and highly equipped army" which will be formed from day to day by a civilian minister. And they said that these stupid generals are plundering the army, but a real financier came to control, the money flows of the Ministry of Defense went where they needed and soon everyone will be happy ...
    This bastard ... sha, I would like to shoot precisely for the betrayal of the motherland. Horseradish with them with money, not in them business. It is for the destruction of the country's defense. He didn’t finish the deal a bit. But nobody recalls this at the very top, and they removed and judge him for something else ... Sad colleagues. request
    1. edeligor
      edeligor 23 January 2013 18: 02 New
      +4
      Well, we have a wise leadership, which day and night, "like a galley slave" cares about its country, that this leadership knows everything and it is just about to explain the terrible secret, according to which the army is destroyed in the trash. ..
      Guys, it doesn't seem to you that our furniture maker was following "someone else's" instructions and that our beloved UNITED guys should answer with him.
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 23 January 2013 18: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: Shkodnik65
      the zombie, the press and the radio breathed enthusiastically about the "small, mobile and highly equipped army" which will be formed from day to day by a civilian minister

      Has something changed, or what?
  • fenix57
    fenix57 23 January 2013 16: 24 New
    16
    Just punishing is not enough. Such "reforms" are not fraud. They are undermining the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces as a whole, they are CHANGE TO THE HOMELAND in its purest form. Imagine what would have happened to these "reformers at the time:

    For such "reforms" not fraud, but undermining the combat capability of the Armed Forces am .
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 16: 39 New
      -3
      Quote: fenix57
      and undermining the combat readiness of the armed forces, treason

      And what did he undermine then? Renewal and rearmament went under him, did the GOZ begin to be fulfilled under him, or is it not related to the pluses? They stole and before him he was no less, he just brought in a new scheme, but thanks for that because the circuit is more transparent and easier to catch on it
      1. AleksUkr
        AleksUkr 23 January 2013 17: 10 New
        +4
        You will also say that 20 years ago there were no mobile phones, but now every baby has them. Yes, the rearmament went on somehow, but obviously not thanks to the activities of the successful manager Taburetkin, but in spite of it. Support for his actions by VVP and LADIES is forced. They cannot say directly that they brought their ally to destroy the country's defense. And they can't think of anything new. At the same time, they cannot shove everything onto him either. After all, he began "reforms" under their careful guidance, when the military doctrine of the state had not yet been approved. But Stouretkin was already crushing the army. Everyone was smiling. Parades were accepted while sitting, hands were applied to an empty head, etc. There is a great hope that the state will not be subjected to aggression during the army's recovery period. Although the hope is very weak, since we have helped and are still helping our SWORD FRIENDS to equip their armies ...
        1. Kyrgyz
          Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 17: 39 New
          -4
          Quote: AleksUkr
          Yes, the rearmament somehow went, but obviously not thanks to the activities of the successful manager Taburetkin, but in spite of it.

          Under him, the process went an order of magnitude better, he replaced and drove out those who slowed down the process even more and stole no less
          Quote: AleksUkr
          After all, he began "reforms" under their careful guidance, when the military doctrine of the state had not yet been approved. But Stouretkin had already smashed the army. Everyone was smiling.

          The army was already defeated, and by professionals in uniform, it began to add at least something from the wreckage, there was no doctrine but the army was needed and no matter what happened it would still be better than it was, and the doctrine would be added and rewritten but it would not protect will not solve problems, although it will help in planning procurement and preparation, but from a near-zero level you can start to work without fear of mistakes
          Quote: AleksUkr
          .Because we helped and help our sworn friends to equip their armies ...

          If you are talking about exporting weapons, then here it is not necessary
        2. military
          military 23 January 2013 17: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: AleksUkr
          Support for his actions of GDP and DAM is compelled. They cannot directly say that they dragged their comrade-in-arms to ruin the country's defense.

          yeah ... this couple will never say, "Compatriots, my partner and I have settled down to a lot ... Sorry, we'll fix everything ..." request they, like woodpeckers, will convince people of the effectiveness of a stool ... request
          1. nycsson
            nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 31 New
            -1
            Quote: military
            yeah ... this couple will never say, "Compatriots, my partner and I have settled down on a large scale ... Sorry, we will fix everything ..." request they, like woodpeckers, will convince people of the effectiveness of the stool ...

            We have to figure it out! All this from incompetence or malicious intent is done!
            1. military
              military 24 January 2013 09: 55 New
              -1
              Quote: nycsson
              We have to figure it out! All this from incompetence or malicious intent is done!

              hi it's like, like Fyodor's father ... "... not for the sake of self-interest, but only by the will of the wife who sent me ..."? ... laughing
      2. VAF
        VAF 23 January 2013 17: 45 New
        +4
        Quote: Kyrgyz
        And what did he undermine then?


        Kirgriz, what, sorry for the rude word, FOOL ????? Or how???
        1. Kyrgyz
          Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 17: 55 New
          -1
          Quote: vaf
          Kirgriz, what, sorry for the rude word, FOOL ????? Or how???

          The dude just stole everything like him before him and after him, but at the same time, improvements in the material and technical situation of the aircraft became visible with him, at least some authority appeared in society with the representative of the aircraft, but at the same time they draw from him a monster, which is not clear? he is a thief and embezzler, he must be judged but he will not sit down, but with all this he is better than those who were before him, because after him the MO is better than before him
          1. VAF
            VAF 23 January 2013 18: 50 New
            +6
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            but at the same time, with it, improvements in the material and technical situation of the aircraft became visible,


            I get it. you’re not fooling around, but you are part of the stool group!

            Well, at least you do not sit quietly and wait. and oppose! Therefore, +! For courage!

            Well, in fact, very briefly, there were 350 combat-ready fighters in the North ... it became 20 .. there were more than 700 pilots of the 1st class who were ready for SMU and KhMU for all types .... left ....... No, I will .. you still can’t believe it.

            So why not get better - from 350 to collect 20 ready-made cars, yes always. you don't even need to repair it .. take it off the "donor" and that's it!
            A raid how it increased ..... pilots .. with a gulkin nose and airplanes ..... ready-to-fly, I do not want to!

            Well, etc.!
            1. sniper
              sniper 23 January 2013 19: 05 New
              +1
              Sergey, is everything really so bad ???? Trendy ...
              1. Mishael
                Mishael 23 January 2013 19: 09 New
                +2
                Quote: sniper
                Sergey, is everything really so bad ???? Trendy ...

                Not yet got out of such an ass, and now we will be on horseback.
                1. sniper
                  sniper 23 January 2013 19: 14 New
                  0
                  Quote: Mishael
                  Not yet got out of such an ass, and now we will be on horseback.
                  But at what cost ??? Again the heroic feat of the people to correct the crimes of their "servants" ?????
              2. VAF
                VAF 23 January 2013 19: 51 New
                0
                Quote: sniper
                Trendy ...


                This is not a trend yet! They will do the iron, but the pilots .... another 5 years and that's all ..... age, health, etc. ...... extreme "Mohicans" will go away, but to replace ????

                And how many years they are being prepared now and to what level .. I have already written it repeatedly. I don’t want to spoil the mood until the end!

                There was already a "call" when the testers from GLITs'f began to be sent to the BZ ... in August 2008 ... there was no, and it was repeatedly and everywhere, but then with something "new" that the troops had not yet had, Yes, and with the provision, God forbid, but here on the MR-e and singly ???? when in Marinovka a whole regiment stands on scouts, having participated in everything and everything request request

                Well, the result ... crying soldier one died ..... earth rest in peace!
                1. sniper
                  sniper 23 January 2013 19: 57 New
                  -1
                  Then really the edge ...
                2. nycsson
                  nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 36 New
                  -1
                  Quote: vaf
                  They will do the iron, but the pilots .... another 5 years and that's all ..... age, health, etc. ...... extreme "Mohicans" will go away, but to replace ????

                  Your truth! That year, the first set was after the break, and even then not big! crying
              3. nycsson
                nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 34 New
                0
                Quote: sniper
                Sergey, is everything really so bad ????

                You can’t even imagine how bad it is .......
            2. Kyrgyz
              Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 19: 27 New
              0
              Quote: vaf
              I get it. you’re not fooling around, but you are part of the stool group!

              I'm not going anywhere stop I just don’t like it when they load a scapegoat on a scapegoat and pretend that the problem is solved, all that’s interesting with it is not him, but for all the bad things he’s definitely, his fault is mainly arrogant and tyrant, well, women with grandmas this is for everyone
              Quote: vaf
              Well, in fact, very briefly, there were 350 combat-ready fighters in the North ... there were 20 ... there were more than 700 class 1 pilots ready in SMU and HMU for all types ... left ....... No, I will .. you won't believe it anyway. So why not get better - from 350 to collect 20 ready-made cars, yes always. you don't even need to repair it .. take it off the "donor" and that's it!

              I can only assume that only NATO is a likely adversary in this direction, and the available cars were not able to withstand NATO machines, therefore, to speed up the replacement, they were decommissioned so as not to spend on the maintenance of rubbish, and money was allowed to finalize and purchase new cars. There is more steel to fly, and there is fuel, about pilots and training here they crawled, of course, they did not understand the specifics.
              But in general, modern aviation requires some other software approach in the use of equipment and equipment in general, its cost is catastrophically high as well as the requirements for drugs and losses in battle are simply unacceptable.
              1. VAF
                VAF 23 January 2013 20: 07 New
                +2
                Quote: Kyrgyz
                I can only assume that only NATO is a likely adversary in this direction


                Your assumptions are wrong because "North" (this is our aviation slang), that is. The entire Kola Peninsula and further to the East (Severodvinsk. Arkhangelsk Anderma, Tiksi) was equipped and armed as follows. that .. "I never dreamed of" Su-27s were all PDs and Ss, MiG-31s ​​BM were the very first to come to Savateya, Olenya and Lakhta had the freshest Tu-22M3s and even at the time of the final "collapse" 5 -th mrad, it began in 2007 (they killed the 574th mrap and all materiel moved to the 924th, so for 2 years the division consisted of 57 (!!!!) flying Tu-22M3s with combat-ready crews in full KBP-DA (naturally, day and night).

                And now only the materiel in storage in the amount of 37 pieces is in Olenyaya .. Sanya Romanov brought the data from the photo yesterday!

                In our 16th army and the most combat-ready 9th Guards Iad, all two regiments were equipped with up to 4 squadrons with 1st class pilots (regiment unification after withdrawal from the GSVG) and in 1993 they were the first to receive the newest 9-14, though they were and stood (Chechnya .. this and that). Well, in the 99th, Vova said .. we will recruit a new ... highly professional army .... (from students of departments at institutes), but we don’t need you already ... we will soak them in the toilet ... !

                In general, I can develop this topic indefinitely, but if we switch to "patriotism", then in general ... Kick-ass will be complete and not in our favor!

                But I won’t!

                And understand correctly, I’m not complaining about anything, there’s everything that a person can only dream about (well, acrya health years in the service of the Fatherland, however, are not in vain) ... but ... as Vereshchagin said ... for me I HATE THE POWER! soldier
                1. Botanologist
                  Botanologist 23 January 2013 21: 04 New
                  +1
                  Really so .... sailed? What, the Air Force years on 15 only virtually in the GOZ program? B-lyaayayaayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayayaya ...
                2. nycsson
                  nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 42 New
                  -1
                  Quote: vaf
                  In general, I can develop this topic indefinitely, but if we switch to "patriotism", then in general ... Kick-ass will be complete and not in our favor!

                  The situation is depressing ......... crying Hang noodles about the 20 year, but you still have to live up to it! In general, I believe that something should happen to our country soon, not just because it was all done! Hair stand on end that these villains have done ....... crying
              2. nycsson
                nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 38 New
                0
                Quote: Kyrgyz
                all that’s good with him is not interesting

                What good did he do? fool
                1. sniper
                  sniper 23 January 2013 22: 56 New
                  0
                  Quote: nycsson
                  And what good did he do

                  Alexei, do you really hope to convince Kyrgyzstan ??? I’m afraid that it’s useless ... Here the logic is powerless ... alas ...
          2. Cheloveck
            Cheloveck 23 January 2013 19: 37 New
            +3
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            Dude just stole

            "A thief should sit in jail!" ("Meeting place can not be Changed")
            And there is no figs here to justify that they stole before him and after him they will steal.
            And about improving the financial and technical situation - do you believe all advertising? Look around to strangers with open eyes.

            PS. It is a pity that the 37th will not be repeated. How many applicants!
          3. Garrin
            Garrin 23 January 2013 21: 26 New
            +1
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            but at the same time, with it, improvements in the material and technical situation of the Armed Forces became visible, at least some authority in society appeared in the representative of the Armed Forces, but at the same time they draw a monster from him,

            And what is the improvement? In the form of Yudashkin? Or in the procurement of the Mistral? Or in Italian cars? Not, but of course there are pluses. He added the Indian ...
          4. nycsson
            nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 33 New
            -2
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            that after him MO is better than before him

            And where do you get such confidence? In the Moscow Region, only the most lazy people don’t pour mud on him ....... negative
        2. rapid1934
          rapid1934 23 January 2013 20: 15 New
          0
          Quote: vaf
          Kirgriz, what, sorry for the rude word, FOOL ????? Or how???

          In my opinion, the Kyrgyz or drunk or id .. from. hi
          1. ruton
            ruton 23 January 2013 21: 34 New
            -1
            Yes, Kyrgyzstan specifically provokes and apparently drags on this.
      3. Misantrop
        Misantrop 23 January 2013 17: 47 New
        +3
        Quote: Kyrgyz
        GOZ began to be fulfilled with him

        That's just when it GOZ gradually ceased to be implemented AT ALL
        Quote: Kyrgyz
        or to the pluses it has nothing to do

        Name at least one plus, then it will be possible to discuss
        1. Kyrgyz
          Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 17: 59 New
          -2
          Quote: Misantrop
          Name at least one plus, then it will be possible to discuss

          They began to shoot more often and more, they reduced their service life, improved their financial situation, formed East Kazakhstan oblast, moved their fleet headquarters, rent more housing, receive more
          1. DeerIvanovich
            DeerIvanovich 23 January 2013 18: 21 New
            +4
            heh, they handed over housing for 100 apartments, only the military can’t move in there .... because there is no infrastructure!
            the fleet’s headquarters was moved - it’s from stupidity, without calculating anything.
            technicians began to receive more, exercises became more, financial situation - because enormous funds began to pour into the defense
            but GOZs really slowed down, because they didn’t want to share it with him, but for the Mistrals and others like them go and tea, the kickbacks were a hundred pounds

            one plus - the service life is reduced :))) only this plus in quotation marks!
            1. Kyrgyz
              Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 19: 16 New
              -2
              Quote: DeerIvanovich
              heh, they handed over housing for 100 apartments, only the military can’t move in there .... because there is no infrastructure!

              Where infrastructure is expensive
              Quote: DeerIvanovich
              the fleet’s headquarters was moved - it’s from stupidity, without calculating anything.

              Well, time will tell, but I agree an ambiguous decision
              Quote: DeerIvanovich
              technicians began to receive more, exercises became more, financial situation - because enormous funds began to pour into the defense

              Those. in the fact that these funds go according to the purpose of his merits; but in the fact that other means are stolen, his merit?
              Quote: DeerIvanovich
              and GOZs really slowed down, because they did not want with him
              shares

              it’s hard to say discounts
              Quote: DeerIvanovich
              but for the Mistrals and others like them, go and have a tea kickbacks were a hundred pounds

              It was possible, but their manufacturers began to move a little, even they received the deputy prime minister
              Quote: DeerIvanovich
              one plus - the service life is reduced :))) only this plus in quotation marks!

              No quotes, normal plus
              1. DeerIvanovich
                DeerIvanovich 24 January 2013 13: 41 New
                -2
                Where infrastructure is expensive
                ___
                But what prevented the construction of infrastructure, where it does not exist, is it cheaper than where it is ??? I recall the next acceptance of Shoigu apartments from the Ministry of Defense, when Seryukov Shoigu so humiliated him with incompetence.

                Those. in the fact that these funds go according to the purpose of his merits; but in the fact that other means are stolen, his merit?
                __
                Well, if you steal absolutely everything, you won’t turn up for a long time!

                it’s hard to say discounts
                __
                I don’t argue, there were times when the prime cost of armaments by manufacturers was overestimated, this is a minus to them, but we should not forget that instead of building normal working relations, Serdyukov showed everything and everything

                no quotes, normal plus
                __
                this grandmother said two more
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 23 January 2013 20: 53 New
            +2
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            Shoot to learn more often and more

            Disposal of ammunition by firing, explosives can no longer cope
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            reduced service life

            That's just from yesterday’s schoolchildren for a year to prepare a fighter is not realistic, educate a fighter - especially
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            financial position of drugs improved

            Three were kicked out, the fourth improved
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            fleet headquarters moved

            Connections neither with the fleets, nor with the General Staff. To use mobile phones or to get carrier pigeons?
            Quote: Kyrgyz
            rent more housing

            On about. Do you want a Russian apartment? Or in similar "centers of civilization"
            And you can recall the destruction of the Zhukovsky Academy, the system of military universities, the complete defeat of military medicine ... etc. etc. About that and the speech that to take any of his business is either stupidly implemented, or outright harm. For 8 years of being in the position of ANY unequivocally positive action
          3. VikDok
            VikDok 23 January 2013 23: 20 New
            +2
            As an example of "good" one of the connections of the East Kazakhstan region in the suburbs. The officers at their own expense were offered to make repairs at the headquarters. Threw off the salary and did it. A month later, the regiment was transferred from one end of the region to another, and the headquarters drove into the barrack, which they forgot to restore after the Nazi bombings of 41 g. Again the officers threw themselves in, at the same time threw themselves on the windows for boxes with equipment. After two months the regiment was returned to its original place. At the headquarters they unscrewed everything that was screwed, the rest was broken. In the boxes, the 10-ton gates disappeared (by the way, they were found at the metal collection point). Now the guys fold again. And the regiment was constantly receiving new equipment. We got it, they fired, we liked everything. And the new order will repaint the Armor in sand and pass it on to the "friends" from Saudi Arabia. The next time it was passed on to other "friends", Kuwaiti. And then there was one more time. At the same time, there is a story on TV that this unit has received a new regimental set.
            Py.Sy In the fall of 2012, the only officer in the regiment who knows the S-400 and the Shell is excellent (or rather, the only one who knows how to use it) - Art. L from autorota.
            And so all is well.
    2. papas-57
      papas-57 23 January 2013 19: 38 New
      +2
      Interestingly, maybe Taburetkin also received a salary in the United States for such a `` job ''?
    3. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 22: 29 New
      -2
      Quote: fenix57
      This is an undermining of the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces as a whole, it is a CHANGE to the motherland in its purest form.

      And who allowed this?
  • rudolff
    rudolff 23 January 2013 16: 24 New
    12
    Serdyukov had just finished the rout of the army, and it all began under Gorbachev. A hasty withdrawal of troops from the eastern bloc into the "field", a thoughtless reduction of operational-tactical and strategic missile systems, a hasty reduction of units and formations. Then Yeltsin continued what he had begun and this already bore the character of a pogrom of the armed forces. Well, Serdyukov and Makarov, with the tacit approval of the country's top leadership, only put the final point. And now we do not need to develop the army and navy, but in fact build them anew and almost from scratch.
    1. sniper
      sniper 23 January 2013 16: 37 New
      10
      Quote: rudolff
      And now we do not need to develop the army and navy, but in fact they must be rebuilt and almost from scratch.

      And not only that, but also the defense industry .... Friends, I'm an adult man, but I want to cry ....
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 23 January 2013 16: 56 New
        +4
        Quote: sniper
        I'm an adult man, but I want to cry ....

        cry it is mildly said .... roar
        1. sniper
          sniper 23 January 2013 17: 11 New
          +5
          In many ways, you can blame the aging rulers of the USSR, but the military-industrial complex, army, navy have always been at their best, and what have they done now ?????
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 23 January 2013 18: 21 New
            +2
            Quote: sniper
            In many ways, you can blame the aging rulers of the USSR, but the military-industrial complex, army, navy have always been at their best, and what have they done now ?????

            It’s customary for us to blame everything on the last Taburetkin, of course, the whole nits are complete. But the first step towards the collapse of the army was made humpbacked at the first half-million reduction + destruction of medium and short-range missiles. Then everyone started to blame on Grachev who, after the collapse of the union, got the army castrated in all sorts. it’s a separate conversation But who remembers how many ministers were between Grachev and Taburetkin and what did they do? and why no one speaks a word about them? Maybe because, unlike these, they just didn’t do a dick?
            1. sniper
              sniper 23 January 2013 18: 31 New
              +1
              Quote: Ruslan67
              and why no one speaks a word about them?

              So what do you say about them ??? Only moderators of work to add ....
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 23 January 2013 18: 34 New
                +1
                Quote: sniper
                So what about them?

                Just about to notice in history will remain clean sad
                1. VAF
                  VAF 23 January 2013 18: 54 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Just about to notice in history will remain clean


                  Ruslan, mind you that the great and almighty is now. without history. remains clean. although the main "defeat" of the Air Force began and continued (since there is nothing to ruin) with him and according to his decrees and orders, well, the same with Aypad! after all, they are a PAIR ... "EDRinomizhnikov"! wassat
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 23 January 2013 19: 16 New
                    +3
                    Quote: vaf
                    although the main "defeat" of the Air Force began and continued (since there is nothing to ruin) with him and according to his decrees and orders, well, the same with Aypad! because they are PAR

                    Well, if you look a little deeper, the first blow to the Air Force was hit by a corn hog, the second labeled perestroika, and now what can already be called a tradition: we beat, we restore the mother of them all by the leg and cheek wassat It is interesting what kind of aviation we would have had if not for this periodic collapse which is repeated with the industriousness of an idiot?
                    1. VAF
                      VAF 23 January 2013 20: 17 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      then the first blow to the air force caused corn boron


                      I remember this myself, I was already almost 10 years old then, so I still remember how my father was deceased, then already a squadron commander ..... they hid new MiG-17s in the forest, and we seemed to drive the collective farm boys away ... although those. oddly enough .. they understood everything and "children's" secrets (like those of border guards) were everywhere .. no commission would slip through!

                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      labeled remaster


                      humpbacked almost out of business, because. then Afghan was in full swing, so the aviation was flying as it should, but Eelkin ....... there is only a mat. then yes ..... navarapyatil cases, well, Vova. with his "royal decrees" he continued!

                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      I wonder what kind of aviation we would have.


                      At the time of withdrawal, i.e. The year 1990 (the Warsaw Treaty died) is the most powerful and combat-ready in the world, capable and most importantly ready for any theater (including the Amer) to successfully solve all the assigned tasks, because then taught and prepared .. in the present way! +! soldier
                    2. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 24 January 2013 00: 52 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ruslan67
                      I wonder what kind of aviation we would have.
                      If you consider that only Ukraine got 42 regiments of military aviation (of which, after a few years, the total remained ... already 2, the rest were stupidly looted)
                2. sniper
                  sniper 23 January 2013 18: 59 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  remain clean in history

                  Let them not be in history ... Who will remember them? Mediocrity, temporary workers, at best ...
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 23 January 2013 20: 19 New
                    0
                    Quote: sniper
                    Who will remember them?


                    I will remember .. definitely! As my father ..... remembered the maize ..... well, and with what words .. this is understandable! +! soldier
              2. VAF
                VAF 23 January 2013 18: 52 New
                +2
                Quote: sniper
                Only moderators of work to add ....


                Ay, as he said beautifully, +! drinks
                1. sniper
                  sniper 23 January 2013 19: 01 New
                  0
                  Hello Sergey! Glad to see you !!! drinks
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 23 January 2013 20: 19 New
                    -1
                    Quote: sniper
                    Glad to see you !!!


                    Mutually: drinks !!!
                    1. ole
                      ole 23 January 2013 23: 59 New
                      -1
                      There is a feeling that the country is getting ready for the collapse of the republic
          2. Tersky
            Tersky 23 January 2013 18: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: sniper
            , and what have you done now ?????

            That is why the SC exists to ask this question to Stool and K, unless of course the committee is allowed to do this ...
            1. sniper
              sniper 23 January 2013 19: 03 New
              +1
              Quote: Tersky
              That’s why SC exists,

              I’m afraid that the UK exists to reassure the public ... And the fate of the guys from the UK is unenviable ....
  • Armavir
    Armavir 23 January 2013 16: 28 New
    +7
    Well, I think that at least next to Serdyukov in the same cell should sit and the chief of staff.
    But the system does not create its own, because Serdyukov in many respects fulfilled the plan launched from the top - another question is how he executed it ...
    As his Mr. Medvedev called, an effective manager. This is the trouble that there are solid managers in the circle who, as a matter of fact, understand little of what they manage ...
    1. ruton
      ruton 23 January 2013 21: 21 New
      -1
      And grandfather Putin. man in uniform lol that needs a special approach what .
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 24 January 2013 00: 55 New
      -2
      Quote: Armavir
      in a circle continuous managers

      Which is headed by a mediocre teacher of Roman law. A herd of ignoramuses with the right to vote. And we still hope for some efficiency of their "works"?
  • Pinochet000
    Pinochet000 23 January 2013 16: 34 New
    +8
    The one who appointed him to this post and kept there for 5 years what was he thinking? Or didn’t know anything? How is this even possible? From the very day of appointment to the day of removal, the entire Internet, all experts talked about it, even shouted more likely .......
    Wow ep have seen! (I'm talking about those who appointed)
  • Apollo
    Apollo 23 January 2013 16: 43 New
    +9
    Serdyukov needs to be brought to justice and judged by one single article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, article 275 Treason.
    1. consul
      consul 23 January 2013 22: 01 New
      0
      Then those who set too ... Sense to cut branches if there are roots ..
    2. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 23: 02 New
      -2
      Quote: Apollon
      Serdyukov needs to be brought to justice and judged by one single article of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, article 275 Treason.

      This is not real! Since there is such a thing as a power vertical! The higher the position, the more responsibility! hi
  • Egoza
    Egoza 23 January 2013 16: 43 New
    +3
    Well, at least they caught on! May God grant Shoigu courage and health, as well as opportunities to return the army to the proper level.
    1. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 23 January 2013 17: 43 New
      +2
      I wouldn’t say yet that I had caught up. If Serdyukov, and others like them, will be imprisoned, participants in a booth under the guise of reform in the army, then it will be possible to say that they have come to their senses. And so - patting with eyelashes ... They, i.e. TANDEM, and seek excuses for the acts of Serdyukov. This means that they are fully responsible for the collapse of the army, the expulsion of the most trained specialists from it. In general, if you look into the bins of the government, then there are more than a dozen such stools, or even several sods. They successfully smash the country's achievements over the past Soviet years. We’ll eat away what was created then. Knowing the country was strong, if it for more than 20 years they have been plundered, destroyed, humiliated, but it holds on. KEEP !!!
  • Stiletto
    Stiletto 23 January 2013 16: 49 New
    +3
    When Shoigu was appointed, at first I didn’t even understand why the Minister of Emergencies became the Minister of Defense. And only then, when the course of the Serdyukov case was given, it dawned on me that in the army, through the efforts of Taburetkin and his hmm ... as it were, to put it mildly ... an EXTRAORDINARY SITUATION really happened.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 23 January 2013 17: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Stiletto
      there really was an EXTRAORDINARY SITUATION.
      Immediately after the appointment, among the military, the joke went: "We got the job done by the Ministry of Defense that the Emergencies Ministry had to be called ..."
  • shoroh
    shoroh 23 January 2013 16: 57 New
    +5
    Comrade Stalin bequeathed to shoot traitors, thieves and spies.
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 17: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: shoroh
      Comrade Stalin bequeathed to shoot traitors, thieves and spies.

      It’s necessary to shoot, but it’s impossible to make mistakes;
  • GELEZNII_KAPUT
    GELEZNII_KAPUT 23 January 2013 17: 02 New
    +4
    I have already read so many articles on this subject, I don’t understand. Gostep appointed this post? !! ... I don’t see another explanation ... or can people degrade like that?
    1. ruton
      ruton 23 January 2013 21: 27 New
      +1
      We already had such precedents. Remember Bakatin (Minister of Internal Affairs and then the KGB) simply handed over the entire tracking system in the US Embassy to the Americans and that’s all.
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt 23 January 2013 17: 03 New
    -3
    Quote: Pinochet000
    Wow ep have seen! (I'm talking about those who appointed)

    Indignation is understandable, but do you think you can keep your finger on the pulse of all problems? Put yourself in the place, say, the head of the village administration, but there, probably, you can "choke" (cleaning, sowing, first-aid post, kindergarten, school, road, groceries in the store, repair of equipment, etc., etc.) virtually, which in reality, I don't know) - if you do everything yourself, and then ............ Russia!
    The main thing they drew attention to the problem and began to rake.
    1. edeligor
      edeligor 23 January 2013 18: 10 New
      +2
      With such, brother, a staff of hangers-on - advisers, deputies, curators, etc. they should not count five to a hundred moves ahead.
      1. VadimSt
        VadimSt 23 January 2013 19: 05 New
        -1
        I talked about what a person cannot have "seven spans in the forehead"! By the way, we are talking about VVP, not about Serdyukov.
        Russia is not a piece of land, like Lithuania or Luxembourg, here the principle "If you want to do everything well, do it yourself" does not work. And there are always enough freaks, even in the family, even in the involved "team", because it is recruited from top to bottom.
        Serdyukov, the brainchild of Medvedev, not GDP! And he tricked as long as Medvedev was the Supreme Commander.
        1. Cheloveck
          Cheloveck 23 January 2013 19: 45 New
          0
          Quote: VadimSt
          Serdyukov, the brainchild of Medvedev, not GDP!
          Yah???? belay
          2nd President of the Russian Federation
          May 7, 2000 - May 7, 2008
          From February 15, 2007 to November 6, 2012 - Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation.

          I do not name names. laughing
  • altman
    altman 23 January 2013 17: 04 New
    +9
    LAND WITH CONFISCATION OF PROPERTY !!! TO CONFIGURE FROM BIRTHDAY, CLOSE AND LOVERS !!!!
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 18: 00 New
      -6
      Quote: altman
      LAND WITH CONFISCATION OF PROPERTY !!! TO CONFIGURE FROM BIRTHDAY, CLOSE AND LOVERS !!!!

      What if you find yourself in a chain among your relatives and those nearby, will you give yours?
      1. Quiet
        Quiet 23 January 2013 20: 05 New
        +3
        I'll give it ... But Serdyukov will be the prima ballerina of the Bolshoi Theater more real than I was involved in his 30 pieces of silver .....
    2. Quiet
      Quiet 23 January 2013 20: 07 New
      0
      Hi twin !!!! hi
      1. altman
        altman 23 January 2013 22: 11 New
        0
        Hi!!! Good to see !! If I were in the chain, I would not write such messages !! Yes, and most people in our country too !!
        1. Quiet
          Quiet 27 January 2013 16: 08 New
          +1
          Thank you, you flatter me ... Everyone (including you) writes here about what is "boiling in my soul." And the topics here are topical .... Good luck, "twin" !!!! hi Maybe I will soon rise to the rank of captain ... drinks
          1. altman
            altman 27 January 2013 19: 37 New
            0
            drinks and all the best to you !! We serve not for ranks and not for orders .. for the Motherland !!!
            1. Quiet
              Quiet 1 February 2013 21: 28 New
              +1
              Thank !! I try ... I'm a captain, but you are already a major !!!! Well ... wash the next stars ???? drinks
  • USNik
    USNik 23 January 2013 17: 19 New
    +2
    Only the restoration of military medicine can take five to seven years.

    And how many academies were ruined and how many teachers were fired !? And this s-ka still does not want to cooperate with the investigation!
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 31 New
      -1
      Quote: USNik
      And how many academies were ruined and how many teachers were fired !?

      By the way, I recently learned that the reduction of universities in the competence of the government! Mr. Putin during the premiere liquidated the academy of Zhukovsky and Gagarin in Monino!

      Order of the Government of the Russian Federation of April 23 2012 N 609-r Moscow

      Chairman of the Government
      Russian Federation
      Putin
      I just got fucked when I found out! So the Minister of Defense has nothing to do with it!
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 23 January 2013 17: 33 New
    0
    Everything is correct, only, what does the author not say about who put Serdyukov to his post?
    After all, Serdyukov was only a performer who was instructed to do the dirty work.
    It was obvious that after the breakdown of the army as a result of the "military reform", Serdyukov would be dismissed and made a "scapegoat" of him
    "The Moor has done his job - the Moor can go away"
  • Nechai
    Nechai 23 January 2013 17: 52 New
    -1
    Quote: Kyrgyz
    You might think before Serdyukov was an exemplary department with moderate thefts,

    The army is not in a vacuum. Negative selection is negative selection. But a bit, in place of the LOVERS TO TALK, he led PROFESSIONALS OF THE THIEF business ...
    Quote: rudolff
    Well, Serdyukov and Makarov, with the tacit approval of the country's top leadership, only put the final point.

    Why is the silent one? The LADY said what he wanted to see in a new look. These wishes, clothed in beautiful verbal wrappers and embodied in real life. Now everyone is terrified. And the "leaders" are again bending their own - they say a lot of good things have been done, but you still don't understand a damn thing. Even now they simply DO NOT ACCEPT that the ultimate goal of "integration" of Russia into "world civilization" is the consolidation of EXTERNAL Governance. And the RF Armed Forces are needed ONLY as a constituent SMALL PART of NATO ... No, unfortunately I am not overreacting. Recall, for example, the now canceled coloring of the air force of the RF Armed Forces - practically a copy of the NATO one. They filed it true, as they say, her composition is cunning - it minimizes radar visibility ...
    The goals and objectives of the "power elite" and the SOCIETY are diametrically opposed. What is absurdity and betrayal for us is for them the natural order of things and a desired goal.
    Quote: GELEZNII_KAPUT
    or can people degrade like that?

    Do you think that these are still "people"? And they call themselves "elite". Such GMO entities. Who DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING HUMAN !!!
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 18: 12 New
      -3
      Quote: Nechai
      But a bit, in place of the LOVERS TO TALK, he led PROFESSIONALS OF THE THIEF business ...

      Oh come on! Where are the professionals then? Why did they burn so fast and the whole team? laughing
      There are professionals in Rusnano today and in the Central Bank, and here it is, middle-range grabbers
      1. Garrin
        Garrin 23 January 2013 21: 33 New
        -2
        Quote: Kyrgyz
        Oh come on! Where are the professionals then? Why did they burn so fast and the whole team?

        Yes, they hindered the destruction of the army, professionals. So they removed them. As with the cops when reforming into "policemen".
    2. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 26 New
      -2
      Quote: Nechai
      Even now they simply DO NOT ACCEPT that the ultimate goal of "integration" of Russia into "world civilization" is the consolidation of EXTERNAL Governance. And the RF Armed Forces are needed ONLY as an integral SMALL PART of NATO ...

      I agree with you! So it was possible to reform the army, provided that there were guarantees of non-aggression! In this regard, it is of interest how the sixth fleet of the United States moved!
  • bobik05
    bobik05 23 January 2013 18: 11 New
    +2
    The liquidation of the "Central Television and Radio Broadcasting Studio of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation", which was created with the greatest difficulty in 1992 - a rare creative education in the system of the Ministry of Defense, is not only tyranny - it is a CRIME !!! .. OJSC "Zvezda" in which the retired colonel won - a loner Colonel VICTOR BARANETS, who at a meeting of proxies with the President, publicly whipped this President on the air. And where was Zvezda?! .. They sat in their bars and buffets in the building of the Central Television and Radio Broadcasting System of the Russian Ministry of Defense, which was mercilessly robbed by raiders in gray jackets.
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 23 January 2013 18: 53 New
      -4
      Quote: bobik05
      Zvezda OJSC lost the information war

      No one watched this channel, and the team could not interest and attract the viewer, which characterizes its professionalism, and closed it as worthless expenses
      1. ruton
        ruton 23 January 2013 21: 30 New
        +1
        You shouldn’t be so, the channel was good and popular. and Sunday programs looked in parts.
  • 123dv
    123dv 23 January 2013 18: 14 New
    +1
    In autumn, on the Oka of the Planet, he commented on an article on military reform so that the country is deliberately and purposefully prepared for war, in the sense that it does not stand, not cope, could not ...
    And what do you think ... Banned immediately, with the wording - fever delirium!
    Kommetn immediately deleted.
    I wonder why such a painful reaction?
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 23 January 2013 18: 32 New
    +1
    And how many articles appeared in the media justifying Serdyukov and his team. They wanted the best, but they got ... Someone with a short memory, let Gaidar and his accomplices remember. The same thing only with variations on a military theme. They consider everyone to say the least inadequate.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 23 January 2013 19: 17 New
    +3
    Stalinist purges say? Or maybe then we immediately recognize Serdyukov as innocent, like Tukhachevsky? Or, nevertheless, we admit the obvious that they plant and shoot all the same for the cause.

    As a civilian, I have 3 questions for Serdyukovsky reforms. How is mobilization planned? How are you supposed to serve the units in the army with the help of civilian workers? Why weren't the brigades formed for a start from a pair of divisions, as is usually done when something new is being rolled in?
    1. VAF
      VAF 23 January 2013 20: 22 New
      -2
      Quote: Avenger711
      As expected


      I didn’t want to write, but .. I will express myself .... as the State Department + would say! soldier But ..through whom bully Well, I think it’s clear wassat
    2. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 22 New
      -1
      Quote: Avenger711
      How is mobilization planned?

      But no way! This is the most terrible meaning of this fucking reform! I recall how either Medvedev or Putin cherished parts of the frame! This is pure idiocy! We were feared in the West precisely because of these parts of the frame! And waxes of permanent BG in such an amount of fuck are not needed! They have one function - to meet the enemy at the border and detain him there until the deployment of the mobilization reserve! With a big conflict, there is only one fate for parts of a permanent BG - this is death!
  • rpek32
    rpek32 23 January 2013 19: 21 New
    +3
    More Shoigu Forces in raking all this blockage.
  • Nechai
    Nechai 23 January 2013 19: 24 New
    -1
    Quote: Kyrgyz
    Why did they burn so fast and the whole team

    Since 2008 - 4 years, think fast? Yes, and they did not scorch, because they did not hide their affairs! For a carte blanche was given. Well, since they gave it to us, they took it away ...
    Quote: Kyrgyz
    shut down as worthless expenses

    Well, you give a pancake!
    The program of TC "Star" for the evening of 23.01.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX.
    19:30
    D / s "Battle of Empires".
    19:55
    TV / s "At the corner, at Patriarch's 4", 1 p. "Odintsov's Troubled Summer".
    21:00
    TV / s "At the corner, at Patriarch's 4", 2 p. "Theft without burglary".
    22:00
    News.
    22:30
    Feature film "Start the investigation". Film 2. "Slander", 1 p.
    USSR, 1986, detective
    Bogdan Stupka, Svetlana Nemolyaeva, Armen Dzhigarkhanyan
    Film 1 "Version". The police received a statement about the disappearance of the collective farm procurer Pyotr Tsarkov with a large amount of money. This served as the basis for the investigation of a complex criminal case, ...
    23:50
    TV / s "Paid by Death". Film 3. "Three Deaths of Doctor Faust".
    01:40
    Feature film "Vanya".
    USSR, 1958, melodrama
    Lev Durov, Lev Perfilov, Ivan Dmitriev, Natalya Zashipina
    Having lost his parents early, Ivan lived with his uncle. Uncle was a good man, but he could not adopt a boy against his wife’s will, he saw that she did not love him. And the boy felt this and was drawn to strangers. So he ...
    03:25
    D / f "Battleship. Mystery of death".
    04:10
    TV / s "Paid by Death". Film 2. "Bloody Victoria".
    So DON'T make a sound, my dear! Not dancing until the lady on the button of the TK "Zvezda" to start the passionately desired by the intelligentsia and the op-position "Russian Public Television". Prepared from 01.01.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX, did not grow together ...
  • bubla5
    bubla5 23 January 2013 19: 38 New
    0
    Because of one problem, so many problems have accumulated in the army and navy, it’s time for him to * rest *, he’s just got fed up, tired of this snout
  • sergeybulkin
    sergeybulkin 23 January 2013 19: 48 New
    +5
    All this thieves' gang from the Ministry of Defense must be attracted not for corruption, but for crime committed by a group of persons by prior conspiracy = BANDITISM (why do not we call a spade a spade ??? !!!), and the main charge should be a betrayal of the motherland = capital punishment! Since the real damage to the country's defense is deliberately inflicted. There is much more: sabotage, sabotage, deliberate destruction of state property, well, the fantasy is over ...
    1. rpek32
      rpek32 23 January 2013 20: 39 New
      +3
      Quote: sergeybulkin
      Since the real damage to the country's defense is deliberately inflicted

      The foreman speaks business. Gos. betrayal is evident after all.
  • Yasen Ping
    Yasen Ping 23 January 2013 20: 02 New
    -1
    And yet it’s not clear what Taburetkin was set for, I think firstly: the media don’t tell the whole truth, but they usually say disu, secondly: Dima says that he is very good, thirdly: we will never know the truth. ... What is the meaning of Taburetkin, so I know for sure that he did not know anything about the army, he was doing some sort of business, and why ????? What is the point ??? I don’t think to ruin the army, because if we completely ruin it, it will not only be bad for ordinary people, but for everyone who somehow clings to our Motherland, so what is the point ??
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 16 New
      -1
      Quote: Yasen Pin
      I don’t think to ruin the army,

      And I think that’s exactly for this! And they did it very well! It’s not clear to me who just directed this whole mess .......
  • Byordovvv1
    Byordovvv1 23 January 2013 20: 07 New
    0
    Serdyukov with Makarov under the tribunal for the collapse of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. The next minister and chief of general staff will think about their personal responsibility, and not about how high soared up the career ladder.
  • Byordovvv1
    Byordovvv1 23 January 2013 20: 09 New
    +3
    Serdyukov with Makarov under the tribunal for the collapse of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. The following Minister and Chief of General Staff will think about their personal responsibility, and not about how high soared up the career ladder.
  • Sergey47
    Sergey47 23 January 2013 20: 25 New
    +1
    The execution is not really afraid of thieves who have chosen this as a way of life. And such thick-assed, sweaty earhooks will surely fade.
  • harrymur
    harrymur 23 January 2013 20: 26 New
    0
    The worst thing is that these animals are carriers of state secrets, and the hell knows what to do with them, definitely minus vovana, as if he himself should offer them tt-shnik, or take everything upon himself and "bury" them in quiet
  • djon3volta
    djon3volta 23 January 2013 20: 59 New
    -1
    So, Sivkov summarizes, before the reform, the Russian armed forces were able to successfully repel local-level military aggression without the use of nuclear weapons. After the "reform" of Serdyukov, this became impossible.

    But what does it mean? But Sivkov also often belittles the capabilities of the Russian army, I carefully monitor his performances if possible, then on RBC then on REN TV ..
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 23 January 2013 21: 13 New
      -2
      Quote: djon3volta
      what does it mean?

      Exactly!
  • ermak05
    ermak05 23 January 2013 21: 15 New
    -1
    The saddest thing is that we are looking at all this, watching it and crying, crying, crying. And they steal, and we cry. Not disgusting from this? AND? Where are the proud, strong people? Where is he?
    1. Nik26
      Nik26 23 January 2013 22: 04 New
      +1
      A proud and strong people is born during the period of severe trials of this people.
    2. sergeybulkin
      sergeybulkin 23 January 2013 22: 17 New
      -1
      Yes, no one cries no horseradish, we sharpen our teeth, everyone can find something for him ...
  • Nik26
    Nik26 23 January 2013 22: 03 New
    -1
    In my opinion, they will do so in order to bring the criminal out of sight of the media and quietly send them into oblivion (they will allow them to safely go abroad together with servants and lovers).
    There will be no show trial. There will be no preventive measures and, moreover, there will be no retribution. They don’t surrender their own!
    1. sergeybulkin
      sergeybulkin 23 January 2013 22: 14 New
      +1
      I think the Minister of Defense seems to be a military man, and probably gave a non-disclosure agreement, and he probably has a permit not lower than the first, which means he hasn’t shined anywhere else for 25 years, except for Magadan!
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 23 January 2013 22: 21 New
        -1
        But Gorbachev was a higher post, and the whole world traveled and where he lives now HZ
  • rlanry
    rlanry 23 January 2013 22: 12 New
    -1
    The article is an explicit order, designed for emo patriots with their chronic psychosis "Help, country / army / education / industry / do
    Hovnost is destroyed !!!! 111 "Meanwhile, according to the results of Serdyukov's rule, there are many advantages, but the author, of course, preferred not to spoil the panic of the article with them.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 23 January 2013 22: 28 New
      -1
      Well, the advantages are not very many. However, they are. And for most of the minuses that are blamed on him, he is just a performer.
    2. Cheloveck
      Cheloveck 23 January 2013 23: 09 New
      0
      Quote: rlanry
      Meanwhile, following the reign of Serdyukov, there are many advantages.

      List the pros, be so kind!
      (* prepared to bend fingers, suddenly I missed something *)
      1. rlanry
        rlanry 24 January 2013 00: 43 New
        0
        1. Humanization of military service.
        2. The growth of salaries of military personnel. For the first time in twenty years, the word “officer” has ceased to be associated with the concept of “poverty”.
        3. The rejection of the Soviet concept of the mass conscript army, obviously not working in the current conditions. The transition to an army of constant readiness, most of which are ready to join the battle without understaffing.
        4. The solution to the problem of providing retired officers with housing. The line has not yet been eliminated, but has been reduced several times, and if there are no fundamental changes in financing the military budget, this task will be solved.
        5. The beginning of regular purchases of new weapons. The rearmament of the army would have been unthinkable without its reformation - the supply of modern equipment to the "cropped" formations, practically devoid of soldiers, would be a waste of money. Changing the look of the army gave a structure that can be systematically re-equipped, and the pace of this re-equipment is growing.
        6. A sharp increase in the level of combat training of troops. The number of exercises at all levels, from company to strategic, has increased significantly.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 24 January 2013 01: 20 New
          +2
          Quote: rlanry
          1. Humanization of military service.

          What is this like? The army should train soldiers, not humanizers. Moreover, taking into account the fact that the service life has been reduced OVER the limit at which it is possible to train a competent skilled specialist from a conscript, "humanization has led to the following:
          Quote: rlanry
          The rejection of the Soviet concept of the mass conscript army, obviously not working in the current conditions.

          Exactly so and does not work. As for the salaries, I already wrote above - they threw competent officers into the street and, due to this, raised the salaries of the remaining ones. And if in the research institute or in the factories in the same way to raise salaries, much will remain of them?
          Quote: rlanry
          The solution to the problem of providing retired officers with housing.
          The crap is continuous. A lot is actually being built, only the military gets crumbs. And now the line is not shrinking, but growing, former colleagues complain
          Quote: rlanry
          most of which are ready to join the battle without understaffing.
          Take an interest in the level of completeness of these parts, maybe then faith in fairy tales will disappear
          Quote: rlanry
          A sharp increase in the level of combat training of troops. The number of exercises at all levels, from company to strategic, has increased significantly.
          Chasing the remaining to create the appearance of combat readiness. A real readiness showed convulsive plugging of holes 08.08.08. When it suddenly became clear that at the helm of the aircraft, there was no one to land except instructors
          Quote: rlanry
          The beginning of regular purchases of new weapons.

          Because the old snake began to stupidly crumble with age.

          Etc. And if we also take into account the amount of "kickbacks" for all of Smedryukov's actions, then ANYONE would have done much better in his place. At least due to the fact that he would not cram his whores into leading positions. A specialist of any quality would bring many times more benefits in those places than these lascivious thieves
          1. Cheloveck
            Cheloveck 24 January 2013 11: 47 New
            +1
            MisantropThank you for answering for me. good

            rlanry, alas, all fingers were not bent.
            My advice to you: think with your head, not your TV.
  • stranik72
    stranik72 23 January 2013 22: 22 New
    0
    If we add to all this that, according to previously concluded agreements, we submitted the USA data on the telemetry of our missiles (in 2011, it seems we just thought better of it) and they were transmitted, up to Topol-M, then the state of defense of the country really can not be called disastrous. The American missile defense is basically ready to intercept, according to their calculations, up to 90% of missiles today, when there will be 95..98% in our country, an operation like Iraq or Lebanon can be carried out and what can we oppose to them? How many submarines we have with the new Bulava -1 missiles, well, in 3 years it will be 5, plus maybe 10 more ground-based complexes with the Bulava, that's all, about our Air Force and everything else I will keep silent the 90s version in Yugoslavia is our present. So 1941 is not a fantasy. And with that, there is only Taburetkin.
    1. rlanry
      rlanry 24 January 2013 00: 55 New
      +2
      I’m amazed what kind of mess is going on in your head ... The current American missile defense system is not capable of intercepting ICBMs in principle, just as there are no calculations about its alleged ability to intercept 90% of our missiles. Some bantustusts can intercept a simple BB, ours, practically without a chance, until the task of selecting false targets is solved, but for now this is not expected.
      1. sergeybulkin
        sergeybulkin 24 January 2013 02: 20 New
        -2
        A modern ICBM can only be destroyed within a few minutes immediately after launch, as soon as it has gone beyond the atmosphere - the khan is no longer reachable. When a warhead enters the atmosphere above the target, there is also a couple of minutes to intercept it while it slows down, that's all! Then the warhead engines turn on not the bomb, it does not fly in a straight line + it creates interference with the radars.
        And as for the selection of false targets, this problem has already been solved for a long time, even at the complexes that everything was already shot in the Vietnam Americans. The principle is simple like all ingenious, but now it is done even better.

        The American missile defense system is not against us, this is just another trick to knock out money from Congress for a "war", but to steal as much as possible, imagine if they steal from our Ministry of Defense, how they steal there, they steal with a capital letter.
  • crambol
    crambol 23 January 2013 23: 06 New
    +2
    It is not Serdyukov’s actions on the collapse of the army that amaze, but the complete inaction of the government, the president, as the guarantor of the country's security for such a long time. How was it possible not to notice these criminal acts? Or it was some kind of super-genius operation, or we have a complete lack of military specialists!
    1. baku1999
      baku1999 23 January 2013 23: 47 New
      0
      The STO was planned and paid, the NSA and the CIA, then the Bish Yankees were overwhelmed, GET THE ARMY DISCONTINUED .............. AND HOW GRITZA WELCOME TO UNCLE SAM, TAKE, IT'S Pity WE HAVE ALL IN BULK .. ...................... STALIN IS NOT ON THEM, ALREADY FEDERED YOUR WHERE WHERE THREAD IN SUSUMAN ............... .................. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Apollo
    Apollo 24 January 2013 00: 17 New
    +1
    Shoigu calls on officers good

    The composition of the main commands of the Ground Forces, Air Force and Navy will be increased by 2 — 3 times, Interfax reports referring to sources in the Ministry of Defense. The states of command of the Strategic Missile Forces, Air Defense and East Kazakhstan will be increased by 50%. We are talking about strengthening the directorates of combat and operational training, as well as the services responsible for military universities. The main source for strengthening the management system will be the officers currently available. The expert says that this measure is long overdue, the reduction under the ex-minister Anatoly Serdyukov was too radical

    ..............................

    The decision to restore the combat training department to the Ministry of Defense was made in December 2012, a month after the appointment of the new Minister of Defense, Sergei Shoigu. Earlier, this department was abolished by Serdyukov as part of the army reform and cost optimization. The combat training was directly entrusted to the General Staff.

    In December 2012, it became known that the combat training directorate was being re-established in the armed forces. It is these new posts that officers who can return to the army can take.

    Shoigu also decided to restore the military education system, opposing the proposal of the past minister that the training at a military university should be consistent with the Bologna system. Already aware of the rehabilitated aviation schools in Krasnodar, Syzran and Chelyabinsk, this was said at the end of December by Air Force Commander Viktor Bondarev.

    The same thing will happen with other branches of the army, military universities will also be restored there, and officers who were dismissed from military service under Serdyukov will be needed there, sources from Gazeta.Ru in the Ministry of Defense are convinced.

    “It's high time,” said Anatoly Tsyganok, head of the Center for Military Forecasting, who responded to the news about the sharp expansion of the composition of the heads of the high command. “The fact is that the former Minister of Defense (Anatoly Serdyukov. -“ Gazeta.Ru ”) did not understand when Baluevsky (ex-head of the General Staff Yuri Baluevsky. -“ Gazeta.Ru ”) reported that the General Staff can be reduced by a maximum of 22 %

    Serdyukov did not understand that the General Staff should work both in peacetime and in wartime, ”Tsyganok emotionally comments. He is convinced that Shoigu with experience as the head of the Ministry of Emergencies understands the situation.

    http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/2013/01/23_a_4938333.shtml
  • Slavs
    Slavs 24 January 2013 00: 27 New
    +2
    The shooting ...
  • understudy
    understudy 24 January 2013 00: 28 New
    +2
    the country's leadership has the determination to restore order in the military organization of the state

    ______________________________
    What a charm! And before that, where was this determination and where was it directed?
    Yes, damn it, our ancestors were strong and wise, what a richest state they left to mediocre people — they rob, steal and still something remains.
  • Apollo
    Apollo 24 January 2013 00: 33 New
    +1
    Росбалт, 24/01/2013 00:10
    Russia intends to abandon the purchase of Italian tanks

    MOSCOW, 24 January. Russia does not plan to purchase Italian Centauro tanks (“Centaur”), tests of which are currently being conducted at the Kubinka training ground. This was told to journalists by the commander in chief of the ground forces of the Russian Federation Vladimir Chirkin.


    "It was all started under the previous leadership of the Ministry of Defense and we, you understand, in order to keep the brand of a good customer, in fact, we fulfill the terms of that agreement. We have been supplied with this equipment and are now undergoing experimental tests at the Kubinka training ground, they have not been completed yet," he said.

    According to Chirkin, military vehicles have certain advantages, but disadvantages have also been discovered. He stressed that it is too early to talk about test results.

    "They've been over-advertised, not everything fits together. I think we will have to culturally refuse, "he said.
    Read more: http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2013/01/24/1085079.html
  • Andrey58
    Andrey58 24 January 2013 01: 19 New
    +1
    The article is nonobjective and alarmist.
    Meanwhile, the expert reminds that the fact that we had 20% of the units of constant readiness meant: with full mobilization deployment Russia could increase the number of combat-ready military formations five times during the threatened period. And if there were such a large number of formations and units of the frame, the ground forces could form a grouping, at least quantitatively enough, to resolve a local war.

    So, just take it and increase it 5 times. Horseradish accountant. The expert did not ask what condition was the machinery in the cropped divisions by 2008? When was the last time you performed the maintenance? I have met Putin’s statement that by the beginning of the second Chechen company, we had scraped serviceable equipment from the whole division in the North Caucasian Military District military divisions. It's in drill parts where she was still somehow watched.
    How long would a division have lived in a modern conflict on the equipment of the 50-70s. with the reservists who have not gone to combat coordination? Again two practice shooting and into battle? On the other hand, "in quantitative terms" the number of divisions per kilometer of the border on the headquarters maps will be correct. The expert apparently forgot that the extermination of the division has not been a problem since the 80s. In modern war, you cannot fill up with corpses.
    Because of such "experts" in 41st they almost lost the war.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 24 January 2013 01: 32 New
      -2
      Quote: Andrey58
      Because of such "experts" in 41st they almost lost the war.
      BUT, on the other hand, already in 41, they began to create new armies to replace those knocked out on the fronts. It is at the expense of the reserve. There are other options? That allowed, in the end, and to win the war. And not "blown away", like all previously attacked European powers
      Quote: Andrey58
      By the beginning of the second Chechen company, in our North Caucasian Military District divisions, serviceable equipment from the entire division was scraped into the regiment.

      Is scraping much better now? There is no need to talk about what "will" be told, when it will be - then we will see
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 24 January 2013 01: 41 New
        0
        BUT on the other hand, already in the 41st they began to create new armies in exchange for those knocked out at the fronts. It is due to the reserve.

        These "new armies" were much weaker than the German ones in artillery, air defense, and motorization. Didn't the reserve help that much?

        Is scraping much better now?

        Yes.
        1. sergeybulkin
          sergeybulkin 24 January 2013 02: 02 New
          -2
          Do not forget that Moscow was recaptured only thanks to the troops deployed there from Siberia and the Far East, where they waited for Japan to decide not to attack. If it weren’t for the Siberians, Moscow would have had to surrender as 1812. But the Moscow militia all at once died in the very first battles, for many were holding the rifle for the first time.
      2. Andrey58
        Andrey58 24 January 2013 22: 43 New
        -1
        Quote: Misantrop
        BUT on the other hand, already in the 41st they began to create new armies in exchange for those knocked out at the fronts.

        Here about the combat effectiveness of these armies have already been written. I do not argue that there should certainly be a reserve. The question is in what form. Now the cropped part can not be just a warehouse for arms and military equipment. Modern electronics can not be poured with a solidol for 30 years, and then rolled out and start fighting.
  • navijfiser
    navijfiser 24 January 2013 02: 09 New
    +1
    Brothers What are you talking about? Makarov for everything he did received the Hero of the Russian Federation, I won’t be surprised that he would also receive a congressional medal from the US Congress with a stool. Breaking down is not building, I definitely know personally many competent officers who could benefit the state, but nobody needed it, and now having worked in a civilian where their abilities are valued, I can’t return to the army with a few exceptions, at least for sure!
  • AKS-U
    AKS-U 24 January 2013 02: 33 New
    +1
    "it will be impossible in principle to create a grouping sufficient to conduct a local war,"
    "Before the reform, the Russian armed forces were capable of successfully repelling military aggression on a local scale without using nuclear weapons. After Serdyukov's" reform, "this became impossible."
    For whom Serdyukov worked. It’s clear that it’s not for Russia. But to whom.
    I have two versions: 1. Somali pirates. 2. Cyprus offshore.
  • redwolf_13
    redwolf_13 24 January 2013 05: 23 New
    +1
    I can't understand one thing. All that was happening in the army that no one knew. They knew and helped, covered. Remember the demolition of D.M. when they removed the stool. That this person is the "greatest manager". How he praised him. And Makarov is Serdyukov's right hand. Why are they silent about him and it was he and his masters who had a hand in the collapse of the army. His reproach said that the T-80 and T90 are unnecessary for us and we need "Leopards". Who signed contracts for the supply of German steel for tanks and barrels. WHO?
    There is a feeling that when the next "financial project" failed, they simply found a hanger on which everyone is being loaded. And the rest of the "knights of the round table" are carefully removed from the stage so that God forbid they start talking.
  • commitment
    commitment 24 January 2013 22: 28 New
    +1
    This is no longer just theft, corruption and a complete prof. unsuitability of Serdyukov .... This is sabotage of pure water! Is this bastard going to go unpunished ?!
  • carel9
    carel9 4 May 2013 13: 52 New
    0
    Serdyukov will not be jailed! They won't even judge him. After all, Putin himself recommended him! If Serdyukov is to be judged, then Putin should also be judged: could Serdyukov, without the president's knowledge, "reform" the army like that? And Baba Serdyukova (Vasilyeva) will not be in prison either - she will stay at home for two years (while there is an investigation and trial), then house arrest will be counted as a pre-trial detention center and "free with a clear conscience." The confiscation of property in Russia was canceled and the woman will still laugh at us.