The best main battle tanks of the world 2012 of the year

317
In the advanced countries of the West, numerous studies have been published in which attempts have been made to determine the rating of the best basic combat tanks of the world today


Having analyzed in detail the previously created most famous western tank ratings, it was possible to reveal that all of them have a common characteristic error, which makes their results not legitimate - they were compiled by subjective evaluation without reference to the calculated modeling of tank battles, which would be based on close use in real calculations tactical-technical and combat capabilities of a specific tank sample in comparison with other tank models.



Well acquainted with the key mistakes of Western experts in the preparation of tank ratings, the first domestic tank rating is built on the key parameter of any weapons - combat effectiveness, that is, performance.

The basis of combat effectiveness was initially invested two main key parameters of the tank. The first parameter is security and the second firepower.

The most up-to-date main battle tanks of all major tank-building powers of the world were taken for modeling: Pakistani Al-Khalid Mk.1, Indian Arjun Mk.1, Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot, British Challenger-2, South Korean K2 Black Panther, French AMX-56 Leclerk, German Leopard-2A7, American Abrams M1AHTs SEP version 2, Israeli Merkava Mk.2XX, Polish PT-4M Twardy, Japanese Type-91, Chinese ZTZ-10AXNXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

A tank as a combat unit is in itself ineffective on the battlefield. The simulation was carried out taking into account that each main battle tank was considered in the system of application at the level of a tank battalion.

The basis for the tank battalion was taken by the state battalion in the 41 tank. In complex simulation modeling, the oncoming tank battle was taken as the basis of the battle.
The maximum initial combat clash distance between tank battalions was given in 2 kilometers. During the simulation, the firepower was calculated taking into account the individual advancement of the SLA and the use of ammunition characteristic of each type of main battle tanks.
The training level of the crew of the tested tanks was equally equal to everyone at the 0,75 level.

The calculations individually took into account the real level of security and reservations characteristic of each analyzed tank. The fire capabilities of the Pakistani Al-khalid Mk.1 were set by the ZBM-44 “Mango” armor-piercing feathered sabot projectile “Lead” with equivalent armor penetration 48 mm steel homogeneous armor; Indian Arjun Mk.650 for the condition of the simulation was equipped with Israeli BOPS with equivalent armor 1 mm; Ukrainian T-800 BM The stronghold was equipped with a new Ukrainian BOPS ZBM-84 "Gonchar" with 48 mm armor penetration; American Abrams M800A1 SEP Version 2; British Challenger-2; South Korean K2 Black Panther; Japanese Type-2 equipped with American BOPS M10A829 with armor penetration 3 mm; French AMX-800 Leclerk French armor-piercing projectile with equivalent 56 mm armor penetration The Chinese ZTZ-800A2 with the Chinese equivalent of the Russian ZBM-7 “Lead” missile with penetration 43 mm and the Russian T-800MS Tagil was equipped with the most advanced Russian ZBM-91 “Lead-44” with an equivalent armor penetration rate and 500-degree unit with an armor-penetrability system that had a chance to gain a level of 500 yards.

Under the conditions of modeling the oncoming tank battle, the battalion against the battalion, the winner of the tank rating was determined by the complete destruction of the enemy's tank battalion. A higher place in the tank rating between tanks that produced the same number of victories was determined by comparing the number of survivors (who retained combat capability) in tank battles in the winning battalions, thereby evaluating the combat effectiveness of a specific model of the main battle tank on the battlefield over its competitors rated.

First place ranking - the main battle tank T-84 BM Oplot (Ukraine)



After simulating an oncoming battle tank battalion battalion, it was possible for the results to reveal that the first place is occupied only by one tank - Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot, who managed to win all 12 victories in all twelve simulated battles conducted with all tested tanks.

The simulation confirmed that the Ukrainian main battle tank BM Stronghold on firepower and security, at this time has no equal to itself, among modern and promising tanks in the world.

The survival rate of the Ukrainian stronghold BM tank after each battle carried out turned out to be no less than one efficient company, which also turned out to be the highest survival rate among other samples of the main battle tanks of other tank-building powers of the world.

The computational simulation carried out practically showed that the BM Oplot tank currently has among the most representatives of the tank world the most modern armor protection, which, combined with the built-in dynamic protection of the new generation Duplet, gives the tank incredible security by today's standards.



The Ukrainian main battle tank T-84 BM Oplot was developed at the Morozov Kharkiv Machine Building Design Bureau.

The best main battle tank of the world 2012 of the year Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot is produced at the State Enterprise "Malyshev Plant" in the city of Kharkov.

KMDB, in conjunction with the Malyshev plant since the times of the Soviet Union, is the leading forge of world tank construction. Such legendary masterpieces of world tank building as tanks: BT-5 / BT-7, T-34, T-44, T-54, T-64, T-80UD Birch came out of the assembly shops of the tank factory named after Malyshev.

Second place ranking - Leopard 2A7 (Germany) and M1A2 SEP Version 2 Abrams (USA)


The best main battle tanks of the world 2012 of the year


The second place of the world tank rating of modern main battle tanks is shared by the German tank Leopard 2A7 and the American M1A2 SEP V2 Abrams.

The Leopard 2A7 and M1A2 SEP V2 Abrams tanks won 12 simulated oncoming 10 tank wins, one draw (each other) and allowed only one defeat, losing only to one tank that won the first place - the Ukrainian T-84 BGMMM lost to the Ukrainian T-XNUMX.

Between the oncoming tank battle, the Leopard 2A7 and M1А2 SEP V2 Abrams tanks were tied up, knocking out one second battalion to one surviving tank survivor. Thus, showing that the Leopard 2A7 and M1А2 SEP V2 Abrams tanks are tanks of the same level having comparable firepower and security from a small margin in the direction of the German Leopard 2A7.

Second place occupied by the American M1А2 SEP V2 Abrams and the German Leopard 2A7 indicates that the American and German tank building develops in step with the times and occupies a leading position among other leading tank-building powers of the West.

Third place ranking - Type-10 (Japan) and Merkava Mk.4 (Israel)




The newly-formed Japanese Type-10 tank adopted by the Japanese armed forces in January 2012 and the Israeli most advanced tank Merkava Mk.4 share the third place among themselves.

In the oncoming tank battle, these two types of tanks in 12 battles won 8 victories, one battle was reduced to a draw and three battles lost, the first three tanks of the rating - Ukrainian T-84 BM Stronghold, German Leopard 2A7 and American M1А2 SEP VXNXXXXXXXXVXNXXX

Fourth place ranking - T-90MS Tagil (Russia)


The fourth place in the ranking is occupied by the experienced Russian T-90MS Tagil tank, demonstrated to the general public in the autumn of 2011 at the international exhibition of weapons REA-2011 held in Nizhny Tagil, Russia.

The demonstrator tank (concept tank) T-90MS Tagil is another improved modernization of the most modern obsolete serial Russian main battle tank T-90А of the 2006 model. After the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense refused to buy a very expensive tank for the needs of the Russian army T-90A, not responsible for the key parameter "price-quality", Scientific and Production Association "Uralvagonzavod", so as not to lose the state defense order for tanks in an emergency order on its own Ativ developed an improved tank upgrade version of the T-90A under a new name T-90MS Tagil.

The new version of the modernization of the T-90A tank in the T-90MS Tagil version did not give the tank phenomenal fire and driving capabilities, only once again inflating the prices of new tanks, thereby making the new tank even less attractive on the domestic and foreign weapons market.
Russian tank T-demonstrator 90MS Tagil during simulation of winning fights 12 7 counterpropagating tank battles in such tanks: Pakistani Al-Khalid Mk.1, Indian Arjun Mk.1, British Challenger-2, a French AMX-56 Leclerk, Poland PT -91M Twardy and Chinese ZTZ-99A2 (Type-99A2).

At the same time, the experienced Russian tank demonstrator T-90MS Tagil is inferior to such modern main battle tanks of the world: Chinese chto-84 BM Stronghold, German Leopard 2A7, American M1A2 SEP V2 Abrams, Israeli Merkava Mk.4 Siberian SEP V10 Abrams; As well as the Russian T-90MS Tagil slightly exceeds the new South Korean tank K-2 Black Panther.

As a result of modeling the oncoming tank battle between the tank battalions of the Russian and South Korean tanks, it turned out that the T-90MS Tagil tanks defeated the South Korean K-2 tanks. The South Korean K2 tanks were knocked out completely, and of the entire Russian tank battalion (41 tank), only one T-90MS Tagil tank remained combat-ready, so that was the Pyrrhic victory.

Fifth place ranking - the main battle tank K-2 Black Panther (Republic of Korea)



The fifth place in the tank rating is shared by the new South Korean tank of the third generation K-2 Black Panther. The South Korean tank scored 6 victories and 6 battles lost to the top four tank rankings.

Sixth place ranking - Arjun Mk.1 (India) and Challenger-2 (United Kingdom)






Modeling showed that these two types of tanks have equal combat potential. As a result of the simulation, the British and Indian tanks won 4 tank fights equally, 7 lost and one was tied to each other.

The draw between these tanks indicates that India, at 2012, has reached the technological level of British tank building in the development of its tank design.

The Indian tank Arjun Mk.1 was developed on the basis of the now outdated German tank Leopard 2A4, in fact, being its improved copy.

Seventh place ranking - AMX-56 Leclerk (France)


The seventh place is taken by the French tank AMX-56 Leclerk, which won only three tank fights from twelve in the Polish PT-91M Twardy, the Chinese ZTZ-99A2 and the Pakistani Al-Khalid Mk.1.

The French tank Leclerk at the time of its appearance in the 1994 year, was the most advanced, high-tech and expensive fighting vehicle in the world. But until today, the French tank AMX-56 Leclerk significantly lost its initial advanced potential, as the French, firstly, completely closed the assembly line, and secondly, they have not spent a single major upgrade in all this time to enhance the security of previously produced tanks.

The security of the French AMX-56 Leclerk tanks remained at the same level, equaling the entire 650-700 mm in equivalent steel homogeneous armor. At a time when other Western tank builders in a timely manner improved the fire and armor characteristics of the M1 Abrams, Leopard 2 and Challenger-2 tanks, making a significant leap forward.

Eighth place ranking - ZTZ-99A2 (Type-99A2) (China)


The eighth place in the world tank ranking is occupied by the most advanced representative of the Chinese tank industry, the tank ZTZ-99A2.

The design simulation showed that the Chinese representative, the ZTZ-99A2 tank, was able to win only two victories over the Pakistani Al-Khalid Mk.1 and the Polish PT-91M Twardy. At the same time, 10 lost out of twelve fights to tanks above the one in the ranking.



The occupied eighth position by the ZTZ-99A2 tank only confirmed once again the well-known fact that Chinese armored vehicles are exceptionally poor reliability, poor build quality and poor tactical and technical characteristics.

Ninth place ranking - PT-91M Twardy (Poland)



The ninth place was taken by the Polish tank PT-91M Twardy, which was developed at the beginning of 90-s based on the obsolete Soviet export tank T-72М1, supplied by the Soviet Union to Poland in the 80-ies of the XX century.

According to the results of the simulation of an oncoming tank battle, the Polish tank PT-91M managed to win only one victory over the Pakistani Al-Khalid Mk.1. At the same time, after a battle conducted by Pakistani tanks, in the ranks there are less than one company of combat-ready Polish tanks, in total 7 units. Which clearly testifies to the unconvincing victory of the Polish tanks.

The remaining 11 battles Polish tank lost outright.

Tenth place ranking - Al-Khalid Mk.1 (Pakistan)


The last tenth place in the ranking is taken by the Pakistani Al-Khalid Mk.1 tank, which established an absolute anti-record, losing all 12 from 12 to simulated oncoming tank fights to all of the higher ranked representatives of the tank rating.




Conclusions

When compiling the tank ranking of the best main battle tanks 2012 of the year, 13 of the main battle tanks of the leading tank-building powers of the world were analyzed for the first half of 2012 of the year. The counter battle tank battle of a tank battalion against a tank battalion at a distance of at least 2 kilometers was taken as the basis of the battle. The simulation was based on the real, two most key characteristics of any tank - firepower and security.

Simulation of an oncoming tank battle at a distance of a kilometer 2 showed that the most powerful tank in the modern armored world today is the Ukrainian main battle tank T-84 BM Oplot, which surpasses all modern and prospective tanks in the world by all indicators.

The second place of the tank rating was shared by the German tank Leopard 2A7 and the American Abrams M1А2 SEP Version 2.

Comprehensive design simulation revealed that the first three tanks of the rating have a huge combat potential unattainable for today for the rest of the dozens of modern main battle tanks of the world.

Dividing the third place among themselves, the first five of the tank rating is closed by the Japanese Type-10 and the Israeli Merkava Mk.4. These tanks are in the first five of the most advanced, powerful and highly protected tanks of the world 2012 of the year.

The middle tanks in the tank world are the Russian tank demonstrator (concept tank) T-90MS Tagil, promising experienced South Korean K-2 Black Panther, Indian Arjun Mk. 1 and the British Challenger-2, which have relatively high combat capabilities.

Tanks below average showed up - French AMX-56 Leclerk, Chinese ZTZ-99A2 (Type-99A2) and Polish PT-91M Twardy.

The simulation revealed that the Pakistani Al-Khalid Mk.1 tank in the middle of 2012 was the weakest tank in the modern armored world.

PS
The best tank of the second half of the twentieth century
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317 comments
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  1. Sarus
    +15
    22 January 2013 07: 09
    Strange rating ..
    T-84 is better than T-90 ...
    It seems to me that a lot depends on the crew ...
    1. +15
      22 January 2013 07: 31
      If you do not take patriotism, then why the Israeli tank, if not higher than the American, then at least not on equal terms? And the Briton is generally considered the most protected, but stands in 6 place ...
      1. ups
        +70
        22 January 2013 08: 07
        Yes, just an article from the Ukrainian portal, this explains everything) I saw it on the chips yesterday, I also did not understand at first, but then everything fell into place, an advertising booklet for Oplot wink
        And this is just a song)))
        Comprehensive design simulation revealed that the first three tanks of the rating have a huge combat potential unattainable for today for the rest of the dozens of modern main battle tanks of the world.
        1. -7
          22 January 2013 09: 00
          Tagil does not steer. Steers bead-dynamic armor.
          1. +4
            27 January 2013 04: 05
            That is, it means Ukraine has become [quot] In the advanced countries of the West [/ quote] (since she herself did some modeling)? And what kind of tricky simulations do they have?
        2. +13
          22 January 2013 10: 01
          Indeed, there is aggressive advertising for "Oplot" in order to increase sales and take part of the market from Russia. And we need to be more vigilant.
          1. Warrawar
            +6
            22 January 2013 12: 34
            Quote: andrey777
            Indeed, there is aggressive advertising for "Oplot" in order to increase sales and take part of the market from Russia. And we need to be more vigilant

            It is necessary to quickly release Armata, then you will not have to worry.
            1. mexanik
              +7
              27 January 2013 11: 12
              andrey777,
              I think those who buy such equipment will not be dumber than ours. And this article is a provocation! To raise the country's prestige in the eyes of Ukrainians far from technology sad
        3. +6
          22 January 2013 14: 34
          ups, at first I could not believe my eyes, then I looked at the domain ....
          http://alternathistory.org.ua/ samye-luchshie-osnovnye-boevye-tanki-mira-na-2012-god
          rzhunemagu
          T-90MS Tagil is another improved modernization of the most modern obsolete serial Russian main battle tank T-90A model 2006
          1. bach2007
            -10
            25 January 2013 14: 25
            so it is a baby, and do not argue, you need a new tank for a long time.
            1. +3
              25 January 2013 16: 39
              there can only be - no comment fool
            2. GTI
              GTI
              +6
              25 January 2013 22: 14
              How many "Oplots" are in service with Ukraine? and we are building a new tank))
            3. 0
              8 January 2017 12: 58
              Quote: bach2007
              so it is a baby, and do not argue, you need a new tank for a long time.


              The funny thing is that most seriously discuss an article of this level.
              A simple example is Turkish leopards. Burn like nice and from whom ?! And the abrams! Here is the price of all these ratings! Traders of a piece of gov by wrapping it in a beautiful wrapper will vparit as the most innovative and best and most importantly useful product.
            4. 0
              9 January 2017 12: 51
              Ukrainian modeling of tank battles, especially oncoming battalions and battalions against battalions, is a very "objective" thing, but as the saying goes, "it was smooth on paper, but the ravines were forgotten," and the quality of equipment determines its combat use in real combat operations and, moreover, in various climatic conditions, but here about the "most powerful" and "unattainable" "Stronghold", I would say a warrior theorist, was not noted as a good tank even in Donbas, and the oncoming battle of the Abrams even with the T-72B was for some reason not in favor of Abrams, well, yes this is also subjective, the best tank is a combination of factors and for often which are very difficult to calculate, just practice. Well, I wish peace to the "invincible" Svidomo.
          2. olosors
            -2
            29 June 2013 20: 44
            t-90ms bullshit
            t-90s is much better
        4. bach2007
          -4
          25 January 2013 14: 42
          http://www.arms-expo.ru/053049049048124050052056052056.html
        5. rolik
          +4
          25 January 2013 15: 42
          ups,
          They probably modeled there on the first "penny". Or in general, on the "Electronics" calculator, release of 1988. Modelers, would go to Serezha Zverev, he would teach them to model according to the latest word in this direction wassat laughing
        6. mexanik
          +4
          27 January 2013 11: 14
          Compared to this article, Discovery ratings are "objectivity itself"
        7. The comment was deleted.
        8. The comment was deleted.
          1. 0
            18 December 2016 02: 14
            I wonder who this monster "yura4146902" put on the site and why the mate is not "moderated" ???
        9. 0
          16 December 2016 20: 30
          ... and taking into account the fact that Ukraine produces tank guns using casing technology (a resource of 100-200 shots) and does not produce any new ammunition for them.
      2. +5
        22 January 2013 08: 15
        Quote: RedDragoN
        why is an Israeli tank, if not taller than an American, then at least not on equal terms?

        Yeah, Merkava shares third place with the Japanese ... recourse
        1. +6
          22 January 2013 14: 14
          The Japanese could not have had behind them the experience of tank building as we have in one fell swoop to create almost the best tank in the world, and indeed this rating is far from reality in my opinion
        2. Koshakai
          +3
          28 January 2013 13: 45
          I just didn’t understand what kind of Makar this stronghold put on the shoulder blades of American, British and Russian tanks (even if separately).
      3. +6
        22 January 2013 10: 59
        I wish the rating compiler to never meet with the T-4MS tank that took 90th place. It’s just that nobody will be so colorful in any ratings
        1. yura4146902
          -1
          April 25 2014 17: 35
          here is a video of katsabsoe t 90 stuck in the mud funny for the tank http://yandex.ua/video/search?filmId=ZQaw4LeKUXI&text=%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%81%D1%82%D
          0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B5%20%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%
          D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85%20%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD
          %D0%B8%D0%B9%2C%20%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B9%2
          0%D0%B8%20%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%20IDEX-2013%20%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BB%
          D0%BE%D1%82%20%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE&path=wizard
        2. yura4146902
          0
          April 25 2014 17: 35
          here is a video of katsabsoe t 90 stuck in the mud funny for the tank http://yandex.ua/video/search?filmId=ZQaw4LeKUXI&text=%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%81%D1%82%D
          0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BA%D0%B5%20%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%
          D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85%20%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD
          %D0%B8%D0%B9%2C%20%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B9%2
          0%D0%B8%20%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%20IDEX-2013%20%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BB%
          D0%BE%D1%82%20%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE&path=wizard
      4. +8
        22 January 2013 17: 29
        Ukrainian tank in the first place? Thank you, neighing with pleasure)))

        Ukrainian tank, the most Ukrainian tank in the WORLD)))
        1. bach2007
          -10
          25 January 2013 15: 50
          http://vooruzenie.ru/publ/4-1-0-54

          Read gentlemen, you will be smarter!
          1. +5
            25 January 2013 16: 55
            Quote: bach2007
            Read ...

            So don't let it go!
            Secret golden key pah, the birth of another T-80 open!
    2. Vanek
      +13
      22 January 2013 07: 33
      Quote: Sarus
      a lot depends on the crew ..


      Everything depends on him.
      1. Terminator
        +2
        28 January 2013 21: 17
        Right! Even the victory of KamAZ at the Paris-Dakar rally confirms this! good
    3. +21
      22 January 2013 07: 48
      Quote: Sarus
      Strange rating ..

      I agree, more than strange. In my opinion, the rating was not compiled from actual characteristics and capabilities, but from the color of the flag ...
      1. +12
        22 January 2013 07: 54
        Quote: Tersky

        I agree, more than strange. In my opinion, the rating was compiled not from the actual characteristics and capabilities, but from the color of the flag ..

        Hi Vitya, I’ve made a rating of geimers, here’s 10-year-old boys and posted the results of the battles, and someone voiced wassat
        1. +6
          22 January 2013 08: 15
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          yes see geimers rating compiled

          Hello Sasha! With tongue removed!
          1. +6
            22 January 2013 08: 20
            Quote: Tersky
            Took off the tongue!

            And it is also possible that the general director of the Kharkov plant, sitting in his office, compiled this rating laughing
            1. sharp
              +9
              22 January 2013 17: 53
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              And it is also possible that the general director of the Kharkov plant, sitting in his office, compiled this rating

              I think here is different AFTOR Igor B.
              I recalled a joke of Soviet times.

              Dear passengers, we are pleased to welcome you on our 154 B airliner
              150 is the number of passengers
              4 is the crew
              and B ..... it's me Masha Ivanova
              1. +1
                22 January 2013 21: 46
                Quote: sharp
                Dear passengers, we are pleased to welcome you on our 154 B airliner
                150 is the number of passengers
                4 is the crew
                and B ..... it's me Masha Ivanova
                Hi, comedian. But the joke is good. laughing good
      2. +8
        22 January 2013 09: 31
        I agree to all 100. I would not be surprised if it was made up in the stronghold.
        1. mexanik
          +2
          28 January 2013 21: 34
          Most likely it is, this is a Ukrainian article.
      3. bach2007
        -8
        25 January 2013 14: 26
        so read the possibilities of yours and the rest and make sure that not everything in this rating is fiction.
        1. mexanik
          0
          28 January 2013 21: 35
          bach2007,
          What opportunities, this is nonsense in general!
    4. FiReLiTh
      +17
      22 January 2013 08: 07
      In mathematical modeling, the experience and training of the crew are taken equal. Another question AND WHICH MATHEMATICAL MODEL IS USED IN THE SIMULATION ??? In fact, there are not one or two such mathematical models. And they differ depending on the system of initial data (hence the results will be different). As I understand it, the author found the one with the best Ukrainian tank. "WELL DONE".
      1. +7
        22 January 2013 09: 14
        It’s just that another shooter participated in this simulation, where advanced gadgets are most likely to get for the T-84 Oplot. And the rating, respectively, was taken into account in terms of the nervousness of gamers of the aforementioned shooter. IMHO
      2. +4
        22 January 2013 20: 25
        Mat. the model must be confirmed experimentally that it is sufficiently accurate. And so it's all zilch). You can create any. So you are right:

        Quote: FiReLiTh
        As I understand it, the author found the one with the best Ukrainian tank. "WELL DONE".
        1. DmitriRazumov
          +3
          28 January 2013 16: 43
          Well, actually, any matmodel can be correctly adjusted to the desired result by manipulating the source data, coefficients, the number of runs, the given probabilities of defeat at a distance (and who determined them in practice), etc.
          Well, Ukrainians, as always, went too far. Well, they would at least put their Bastion in second place to ensure the visibility of the truth and independence of the rating.
          And so everything is clear without comment.
          1. +2
            1 February 2013 00: 19
            I wanted to say that if mate. the model is made for the result, and not for the "articles", then they try to take the initial data as accurate as possible. They check this model so that they can sit and drink coffee later), "and it counted everything by itself)))".
      3. rolik
        +3
        25 January 2013 15: 44
        Quote: FiReLiTh
        FiReLiTh

        As I said, this simulation used the 1989 Electronics calculator.
        1. +3
          28 January 2013 16: 52
          By the way, it’s a good calculator, I’ve calculated the whole institute on it, most importantly reliable, like a tank laughing
    5. YARY
      +21
      22 January 2013 08: 08
      Strange rating ..
      T-84 is better than T-90 ...
      It seems to me that a lot depends on the crew ...


      No, it all depends on the rating component ... laughing
      1. +1
        22 January 2013 12: 26
        Quote: Ardent
        No, it all depends on the rating component ...

        Nah!
        We are not online! From the system administrator everything! From him heart!
        drinks
        1. ups
          +1
          25 January 2013 08: 41
          Not from the system administrator, but from the electrician drinks drunk electrician thunderstorm of everything in our electronic world wink
        2. DmitriRazumov
          +3
          28 January 2013 16: 46
          Grandpa Stalin also liked to say: "It doesn't matter how they vote, it matters who counts the result ..."
    6. +4
      22 January 2013 08: 08
      Quote: Sarus
      Strange rating ..
      T-84 is better than T-90 ...
      It seems to me that a lot depends on the crew ...

      After reading the first 2 lines of the article and seeing the word "west" there, I realized that the rating is bullshit! Because how many ratings I have not read in all of them, the first places are Leopard and Abrams. I don't know how the bulwark turned out to be here.
    7. +16
      22 January 2013 10: 09
      Quote:.
      Tagil T-90MS is another improved modernization of the most modern morally obsolete serial Russian main battle tank T-90A of the 2006 model.


      Well, wrapped up, did he understand what he wrote?
    8. +4
      22 January 2013 10: 40
      How interesting, Like in a movie, All the suckers are one square ahead, Drive out all the designers they are suckers, But seriously, you can slap a lot of such ratings, Where are the Brazilian tank Italian and others, A great advertisement for selling their equipment for the cordon, In the middle of 90 hit T -80U Europeans they defeated him completely, The conclusion was unpleasant in a collision in 80g with T-80_ tanks all of them lost to him, It’s not we who wrote that they were former enemies ascertained, But time flows, everything changes, But specialists do not change they have more opportunities , By the way, the t-90 is not upgrading the t-72, this is a completely different tank, and not at all frail opportunities, I wish the drafters of such ratings never really come across it, In general, the rating causes a smile, How stubborn it must be to write such a battle at the border 2km, I would like to have a look at this surviving Ukrainian tanker, I think the Yankees are laughing too, They give it, Well, the Germans probably reddened, Everything just comes under pressure on us and it doesn’t matter who presses, he just has the same specialists Well, I do not like that something is looming in a tank-building The uninhabited tower of a new tank scares everyone from here, and all the attacks come from, It’s not so easy to create a problem, start a series, It seems to me that our generals also cherished everything in Russia, They live and prosper, Failed to buy what they wanted now go in a different way, And the Oplot tank is also good, but the problem is with production, The country's budget is not rubber, and that they spin as they can
      1. Akim
        +1
        22 January 2013 10: 55
        Quote: igor.borov775
        Where is the Brazilian tank Italian

        The Brazilian tank died in the early 90s. And about "Ariete" the macaroni themselves admit it lagged behind (it was created against the Albanian and Hungarian T-62).
      2. +3
        22 January 2013 12: 33
        Quote: igor.borov775
        By the way, the T-90 is not a modernization of the T-72, it is a completely different tank,

        What is the other?
        In the filling and the tower?
        But in principle, another is well noticed bully
        1. Endrew
          0
          1 November 2013 21: 35
          A completely different tank with a chassis from the t72!
    9. +11
      22 January 2013 10: 40
      Quote: Sarus
      Strange rating ..

      The article, apparently, is not complete. There is no afterword: "Modeling of tank battles was carried out as part of the update for" World of Tanks ".
    10. avt
      +3
      22 January 2013 11: 09
      Quote: Sarus
      Strange rating ..

      Yeah! One could still have 1st place-Oplot, 2nd place - Oplot, 3rd place-Oplot, further as in the rating laughing laughing To exclude the Merkava altogether, as a little fighter, and leave only the "military veteran" of the Japanese. laughing
    11. Igor Belov
      +6
      22 January 2013 11: 25
      STRANGE??? Do you call it strange ?! Yes, it's just a mockery in the spirit of the unforgettable memory of the professor. Someone really imagines that the T-90 is placed on a par with the Korean and Indian tanks, and Merkava is ranked higher (???).
      YES YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT YOUR STUPID RATINGS AND REVIEWS !!!
      All this professorial-pimpled Caudle littered the information space of the site by imposing an opinion on the superiority of foreign (in particular, Israeli) weapons, although it has long been known that the Merkava is a dead tank (as well as many of the weapons that are made in Israel).
      1. Akim
        +7
        22 January 2013 11: 33
        Quote: Igor Belov
        Someone really imagines that the T-90 is placed on a par with the Korean and Indian tanks, and Merkava is ranked higher (???).

        To reassure you and the rest of the patriots, I will say with a question. Do you remember purely tank battles from history? This is possible only in the "Discovery" program "Great tank battles". No one will launch tanks into an attack without infantry, without artillery and air support, without anti-tank weapons. So any ratings, including this one, can be shoved into F ...
        1. +11
          22 January 2013 12: 56
          Quote: Akim
          To reassure you and the rest of the patriots I will say a question


          Akim, it’s good for you to reason in the first place even in such an authoritative rating. and we only got fourth place and 5 in the overall standings. even the right-handed Japanese bypassed. offensively understand? drinks
          1. Akim
            +6
            22 January 2013 13: 08
            Quote: vorobey
            you come first even in such an authoritative ranking.

            I didn’t even see this tank in my eyes, in quantity and one thing, and not just the whole tank battalion. But I know that in a combined-arms battle in an attack when the T-64BV company is attacked with a motorized infantry battalion, the Poles battalion does with the PT-91 (there was such a KS game). The Leopard Brigade is on their western borders (withdrawn from our airstrikes).
    12. Crescent
      +2
      24 January 2013 06: 41
      T - 80 is better than T-72.
    13. bach2007
      +1
      25 January 2013 15: 08
      The obvious is obvious: both the Russian T-90 and the Ukrainian T-84 Oplot share common technological and design roots. Their basic samples were developed in the USSR and differ mainly in the running gear and power plant. The base model T-90 is equipped with a V-84 engine, the power of which is 840 hp. On the T-84 "Oplot" - a 6TD-2 two-stroke diesel engine, which has a horizontal arrangement of cylinders with a capacity of 1000 hp. Undoubtedly, both tanks are an advanced T-64 tank, created about 50 years ago in Kharkov.
      1. +2
        25 January 2013 15: 37
        Quote: bach2007
        both tanks are an advanced T-64 tank, created about 50 years ago in Kharkov.

        There is such a multivariate saying:
        Rise from sleep, learn materiel, go to sleep, teach again!

        So you can clearly feel you did not follow her! But well, better late than never!
        Teach materiel bach2007 !
    14. anton107798
      -5
      27 January 2013 14: 07
      What's so strange? Well, in a year or two, you will create a better tank and everyone will write "WOW HOW SO? RUSSIANS MADE THE TANK BETTER!" And the fact that "OPLOT" has been better known since the day the tank was created ... But this is not the main thing ... the main thing is that you spit acid out of anger ... why? Indians then generally need to cry over their tanks. Who is to blame for you? When Kharkov offered Russia to make tanks together for Pakistan, he received a clear answer that this was not interesting for Russia, moreover, they immediately stopped supplying barrels for tanks ... well, not that, they set up their own production of barrels. Forget and don't forget ... the center of tank building was Kharkov ! And this is how it is so far!
      1. +3
        28 January 2013 14: 19
        I understand that you and some others have pride.
        But to think purely logically: the armament of the T-90MS and the BM "Oplot" is similar, although the ammunition of the "Oplot" KT-7,62 mm - 450 rounds, KT-12,7 mm - 1250, and the "Tagil" - 300 and 2000 respectively; DZ tanks also have approximate parity; COEP, by and large, are also identical; "Oplot" has a slightly more powerful engine (6TD-2E - 1200hp), but a large mass - 51 tons, so the specific power is slightly lower - 23,5hp / t, for "Tagil" with a mass 48 t. Power is less (B-93 - 1130 hp), therefore, the specific power of "Tagil" is slightly higher - 24 hp / t. with less weight; the cruising range is longer for the T-90 - 550 km, 700 with external tanks, for the "Oplot" - 400 km and 500 with external tanks on the highway, over rough terrain for the T-90 - 345 and 520 km, for the "Oplot" - 350 and 450 km, respectively. Nevertheless, the conveyor-type AZ of the T-84 is considered safer than the carousel of the T-90.
        From all of the above, it is not very clear to me how they were compared and what criteria the "modelers" used, although this is not a complete list of criteria by which modern MBTs are compared. But on the other hand, on the Internet, you can stumble upon the simulation of battles, where the 1st place is occupied by M1A2 or K2 "Black Panther". There is an article on "China Defense" where the best tank is the ZTZ-99.
        Well, at a distance of 2 km, both "Oplot" and "Tagil" are deprived of one of their serious advantages - KUV "Combat" and "Reflex-M".
        Not one computer simulation will be able to fully reflect reality, such things are learned in practice, but I hope that this does not happen.
        1. Verdus_Prime
          +3
          28 January 2013 15: 09
          I can not agree ... the tanks are more than similar ... And they have their pros and cons ...
          But most of them just start to shit ... and exclamations like: "TEDEVYANOSTA IS BETTER than EVERYONE ... WHAT ARE FUCKS" ... You can't look at such people without sadness ...
          Here's what you need to decide .... and not garbage involved ...
          And then they say that "Ukraine is all vinavata!" ... After reading the comments, for example, I developed hatred for certain Russians ... or how they like to call themselves "Russians" (people who did not study history well) ...
          This is sad ... We are comparing who has better tanks ... It would be better if they remembered that once they defended their common homeland ... and did not see that the tank was developed in Kharkov, but it was made in the Urals ... That's what you need to think about. ..but don't throw shit at each other ... Since, "both pockmarked" ... both are in shit up to their ears ...
          1. 0
            28 January 2013 18: 18
            The problem with such problems is that one started and the other continued. It is important not to get involved.
          2. 0
            25 February 2019 11: 38
            Quote: Verdus_Prime
            And then they say that "Ukraine is all vinavata!" ... After reading the comments, for example, I developed hatred for certain Russians ... or how they like to call themselves "Russians" (people who did not study history well) ...

            First you need to restore a true story, and finally, say that Ukraine is not a state, but a geographical region, like the Urals, Siberia or the Volga region, from which they made a quasi-state in 1921 as part of the USSR, cutting 4 times more territories from other regions, and almost full in 1991.
            But the worst is the other. The Anglo-Saxons, despite different states, never destroyed economic ties and maintained unity. Who is economically disadvantageous to maintain the unity of Eastern Europe in general and Russians in particular?
    15. damn
      0
      1 March 2013 00: 54
      a lot depends on the crew and the command of the battle as a whole, and not always the technical perfection of the machine determines the result, although of course the factor is very significant. In particular, the performance of the T-34 against heavier vehicles during the Second World War-2 was partially determined by the correct use of the advantages and disadvantages of the machine.
  2. Vanek
    +9
    22 January 2013 07: 13
    The best tank of the second half of the twentieth century

    T - 64? No?
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 10: 35
      Therefore, instead of him, he jumps, taken out of the T-72 AV.'s stockpile. And they blow that this is an upgraded T-64, WHICH IF Jumping, IT WILL CRUMP.
      1. Verdus_Prime
        -1
        28 January 2013 15: 12
        Pichalka ... read the blog of Alyosha hlopotov?) ... It’s a pity ... that you can’t turn off the Internet for sick people, or block the exit of vyser and disinfection) ...
    2. Verdus_Prime
      0
      28 January 2013 15: 14
      Yes 64) ... At least someone thinks ... and is not guided only by personal hatred and pseudo-patriotism ...
    3. Endrew
      +2
      1 November 2013 21: 39
      T-72! It will be better
  3. +18
    22 January 2013 07: 15
    I will say this: no rating can identify the best tank in the world. The only place where you can really draw conclusions about the tank is war! After all, a tank becomes the best in the world only if it is controlled by a well-trained crew! A tank without a crew is just a piece of iron!
    1. dkv
      dkv
      -1
      22 January 2013 08: 47
      Maybe from the number of available crews in reserve?
    2. 0
      22 January 2013 14: 41
      only wars should be educated and motivated. neither as Georgians nor as Iraqis
    3. AER_69
      0
      29 January 2013 15: 40
      Actually compare the tanks and not the crew. laughing
  4. +4
    22 January 2013 07: 18
    Quote: Sarus
    Strange rating ..

    I agree. Who made this comparison? Too little data to compare the article indicated.
  5. +8
    22 January 2013 07: 24
    Only fire contact will reveal who is WHO !!!!!!!!!!! wassat
    1. dkv
      dkv
      -16
      22 January 2013 08: 58
      Go ahead, women give birth to tankers!
  6. +3
    22 January 2013 07: 30
    Quote - The basis of combat effectiveness was originally invested in two main key parameters of the tank. The first parameter is security and the second firepower.
    I doubt that anyone knows the real data of these tanks except their developers. And they will not tell them to anyone.
  7. predator.3
    +21
    22 January 2013 07: 36
    "... The battle was based on an oncoming tank battle of a tank battalion against a tank battalion at a distance of at least 2 kilometers. The simulation was based on real, two most key characteristics of any tank - firepower and security ... "
    That's when these same oncoming tank battles take place in reality, only then you can determine the best tank, and so ... all this from the evil one.
    for me this car is the best for today!
    1. OTAKE
      +8
      22 January 2013 07: 43
      Stop forcing this tank, it was released in the amount of 3 and a half pieces, absolutely like Oplot
      1. +5
        22 January 2013 10: 41
        This is the modernized St. Petersburg T-80 U, called "Oplot" many times. Like the BTR-4, produced for the first time and developed at the Malyshev plant, which had never produced an armored personnel carrier before. -82a. What else do you want, they lie as always. Yes, and their plant is threatened with bankruptcy.
    2. +4
      22 January 2013 07: 56
      Quote: predator.3
      only then can you determine the best tank,

      yes, but we don’t have it, it’s expensive, only the avaricious one pays twice hi
    3. dkv
      dkv
      -7
      22 January 2013 08: 59
      Of course, there’s simply no other.
    4. Corneli
      0
      22 January 2013 18: 52
      it’s logical that you are a Russian, and the first place to be taken for ANYWHERE from a Tagil who has not fought (you can record the stronghold even that)
    5. Director
      0
      25 January 2013 10: 35
      The best was the T-80U and this is a tractor with tuning. Imagine if you rearrange all new equipment from TAGILA to the T-80. what a GREAT MACHINE would have turned out.
      1. +1
        25 January 2013 15: 16
        Quote: director
        all new equipment from TAGILA to T-80.

        Fundamentally, the T-90 was born!
        Everything that was possibly taken from the T-80 and used on the T-72.
        It turned out to be a pretty decent modernized beast T-72B (BU?), Well, and then the political and business grimaces of our community turned it into a T-90. Well, it rolled ...
        wink
  8. +6
    22 January 2013 07: 36
    Again the news from a parallel universe! wassat Source: alternathistory.org.ua
    It is necessary to search the Polish rating ...
    1. neodymium
      +4
      22 January 2013 08: 28
      What do the Yankees think about Russian tanks:
      http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2013/01/blog-post_2954.html

      “It’s easy to say that Russians cannot make good tanks. But it is not.
      And, thank God, there are people who do not fast here, but think what to do with the reflex and DZ. |

      “But DZ is a cheap solution to make a medium tank well protected. And Russia is the only country with a decent DZ. DZ is not a panacea, but if you can do it, then it works. Recent Russian developments can be a nightmare for a gunner and a tedious task for a loader (here why Leclerc has AZ). "
      Compare tanks:
      http://www.avanturist.org/forum/topic/157/offset/12520
    2. +3
      22 January 2013 09: 18
      ... and at the same time Albanian. wassat
  9. +6
    22 January 2013 07: 37
    Yes, crap is not a rating, as the author reached our tank, it’s not so much about the tank, but about nonsense about our defenders! Merkava in 3rd place! And this is one of the most substituted tanks in the world from almost all types of weapons! I am absurd fool They probably modeled wall to wall, and who overreach whom No.
  10. +3
    22 January 2013 07: 37
    Not so scary Russian tank - like its drunk crew !!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) T-90 and T-84 Respect! :)
    Abrams sucks ...... Merkava and Leopard - it seems very good. The rest as competitors do not even consider :)
    1. Baboon
      +2
      22 January 2013 07: 41
      Well, why, Koreans and Japanese have very serious characteristics declared.
      1. 0
        26 January 2013 13: 31
        All sorts of characteristics can be invented so that the enemy is afraid and customers take. Tanks can only be checked in real combat, where you can also check the quality of crew training.
      2. 0
        25 February 2019 11: 46
        Quote: Babon
        Well, why, Koreans and Japanese have very serious characteristics declared.

        Both lack independent production of full-fledged sub-caliber shells.
        The production of guns is the same trouble. But the platforms are not bad.
    2. OTAKE
      +7
      22 January 2013 09: 03
      Quote: SIBIR38RUS
      Not so scary Russian tank - like its drunk crew !!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) T-90 and T-84 Respect! :)
      Abrams sucks ...... Merkava and Leopard - it seems very good. The rest as competitors do not even consider :)

      LOL knew that there would be at least one individual in the branch who would mention the crew, the wiggle, and something like "Abrams and Tomahawk parvem, pitchforks !!! 11 passans !!" dear, clap, vodka in health, mother Russia! but in fact, no time for jokes, people really die in battles, and you make of them, some kind of drunks
  11. Yurikus
    0
    22 January 2013 07: 40
    And it seems to me that there is truth in this article regarding the fact that the T-90MS tank is morally obsolete and something radically new is needed.
    1. +7
      22 January 2013 07: 58
      Quote: Yurikus

      And it seems to me that there is truth in this article regarding the fact that the T-90MS tank is morally obsolete

      Those who made a rating in the eyes of the T 90 MS saw at all? An idle talk and lobbying of some interested parties is possible. Advertising is the engine of trade hi
      1. +7
        22 January 2013 08: 21
        Advertising on the Ukrainian alternative history site? laughing
        I can’t drink so much ... what
    2. +2
      22 January 2013 10: 41
      Quote: Yurikus
      And it seems to me that there is truth in this article regarding the fact that the T-90MS tank is morally obsolete and something radically new is needed.
      Suggest if there are ideas of what we need. It is interesting in what year the same abrams was created, and how many times have it been modified? Do you know that modified T90 to say so?
      1. +2
        22 January 2013 11: 03
        Quote: Mechanic
        Do you know that you modified the T90 to say so?

        Hi Zhenya, when he is drafted into the army, he enters the tank, then he will know. In the meantime, games on the computer will produce professionals of all levels request
      2. +4
        22 January 2013 11: 04
        Quote: Mechanic
        Suggest if there are ideas of what we need


        Can I dare? And let’s release T84. tears everyone with an advantage of 10 cars.
        1. +3
          22 January 2013 11: 47
          Hi Sani.
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          In the meantime, games on the computer produce professionals of all levels
          Gee, my little one has an 10 level tank in some kind of online game. I’ll ask for damn today to give recommendations to UVZ which tank to do.
          Quote: vorobey
          And let t84 release. tears everyone with an edge in 10 machines.
          So Sanya and you did not forget that we have a corporation for the production of plywood tanks in your garage? So do business interests, the Bastion we do not need.
          1. +3
            22 January 2013 12: 01
            Quote: Mechanic
            for the production of plywood tanks in your garage


            because of your careless statements, we have such ratings. drinks
      3. +5
        22 January 2013 11: 46
        Quote: Mechanic
        Suggest if there are ideas of what we need. It is interesting in what year the same abrams was created, and how many times have it been modified? Do you know that modified T90 to say so?

        you don’t understand, the abrash was created in the area of ​​democracy, and the intolerant totalitarian geydavit in the pro-Putin UVZ.
        1. +4
          22 January 2013 12: 02
          Quote: leon-iv
          intolerant totalitarian geydavitel


          real tanks are not afraid of dirt.
    3. Warrawar
      +1
      22 January 2013 12: 56
      Quote: Yurikus

      And it seems to me that there is truth in this article regarding the fact that the T-90MS tank is morally obsolete and something radically new is needed.

      Yes, you're right, he really is out of date. That is why it is not bought into the troops and waiting for a new generation tank - Armata.
    4. 0
      15 August 2021 11: 12
      I am writing from the distant 2021. The T-90 is the best-selling tank in the world, no one is close by in terms of volume, it has shown itself well in Syria (unlike the Leclerc in Yemen, the Leopards of Turkey). Tank Oplot "showed" itself in 2015 in Donbass, several boilers of the Ukrainian forces. And the T-90 Minorony of Russia continues to buy new ones and modernize the old ones.

      Expert You are so so ...
  12. 0
    22 January 2013 07: 47
    [img] http://demirenko.blog.ru/feeds?from=102510963 [/ img]

    As far as I understand, we forgot about t-95 forever? :(
  13. andrey903
    -1
    22 January 2013 07: 47
    It is felt that the rating was Each of their own
  14. +1
    22 January 2013 07: 48
    "During the simulation, firepower was calculated taking into account the individual advancement of the FCS and the use of ammunition typical for each type of main battle tank."
    That is, the practical rate of fire was not taken into account? AZ and loader leveled by parameters?
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 09: 22
      And at the same time patency through mud, sand, snow and the loyalty of the Russian Santa Claus am
    2. +1
      22 January 2013 12: 06
      engineer - pins more from 2 kilometers, and before that they didn’t see each other, the crew training 0.75 (does it mean that loading the crew is difficult? - correspondingly low rate of fire (and you can push the wrong kind of PSU in fever).
      1. 0
        22 January 2013 12: 52
        I was surprised at all by the "modeling" input data set. I'm afraid to think about the reliability of the mathematical description of processes. what
  15. +1
    22 January 2013 07: 49
    Where b .... d t-95 is being asked ?! Forgot our warriors about him forever, as I understand it? :(
    1. +2
      22 January 2013 07: 57
      Calm down! They threatened to roll out "Armata" in autumn, so we are waiting!
      wink
  16. Ash
    Ash
    +7
    22 January 2013 07: 50
    Something tells me that the "simulation of battles" carried out was invented by the authors of the article. There are no links, no detailed description of the simulation process, nor where it was carried out, nor by anyone. What parameters and in what dependencies were considered. I am afraid that generalized "security" and "firepower" - the maximum degree to which the author could in his imagination detail this very "battle simulation".
    I remember that while preparing my diploma project while still at school, I assessed the combat effectiveness of the Topol. There, for example, security meant the probability of escape from the strike, expressed through the average speed of the complex, the time spent on emergency shutdown by averagely trained calculations. the probability of maintaining a combat readiness when the launcher was at different distances from the epicenter. There were also the probabilities of bringing the signal to launch by various means of combat control. The probability of the missile overcoming missile defense systems was considered separately, the circular probable deviation separately, and the charge power separately. Then they added up to one probability of hitting a target in the conditions of the enemy using nuclear weapons. In short, there was a sea of ​​dependencies. And then, all this is purely theory.
    PS: In general, the author, give me the link or formulas. And then it carries quackery from your article a mile away.
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 10: 50
      There is no search for possible buyers for quackery, And everything else is pure water,
      1. +3
        22 January 2013 13: 54
        Quote: igor.borov775
        no, there is a search for potential buyers

        Yeah, they are sitting on Top Var and choosing tanks according to ratings))))))))
        1. 0
          12 March 2015 21: 41
          not t-90ms, but t-90cm. I don’t understand what the 90cm and 84 stronghold demonstrators do here and yes what are the successes 84 in the Donbas ??? those 10 with crippled pieces ??? 90cm to the Russian army are not supplied and will not be, it is exported. as an expert you need to know! by the way where are the successes of the best of the best ???? Please list the tanks T-64 Damask steel and T-90A at least more than a hundred made them. and tanks like Wishlist and farting overboard! not of current interest! when these pieces of iron are stamped at least then there will be something to talk about. something like this.
  17. logic
    +2
    22 January 2013 07: 52
    Indeed, a strange rating. Security is good, the equivalent of armor is an indicator, but nothing more. The most striking and famous example is the T-34 and the Tiger, the armor of the latter is much larger, but in battle it loses.
    IMHO, the author of this rating wants to simply wish our tank builders to create a tank that without any ratings will be recognized as the best.
    1. +3
      22 January 2013 08: 21
      Quote: logik
      a well-known example is the T-34 and the Tiger, the armor of the latter is much larger, but in battle it loses.

      Tiger loses in battle T-34? And in what? According to general operational characteristics, maybe, but in battle?
      1. 0
        22 January 2013 09: 12
        The tiger was already losing in that it was not a tank at all, but a tank destroyer. He was not suitable for a blitzkrieg. On the Kursk Bulge it was used en masse and attacked in the forehead. The tank must break through the defenses and go to the rear to smash communications, warehouses, headquarters, supply convoys, cut roads in important directions, etc.
        1. +2
          22 January 2013 10: 10
          Quote: LION
          The tiger was already losing in that it was not a tank at all, but a tank destroyer.

          Quote: LION
          On the Kursk Bulge it was used en masse and attacked in the forehead.

          Well, be afraid of God, re-read what you wrote yourself: the tank is bad, because it is made to destroy tanks?
          The tiger is heavy — yes, difficult to operate — yes, expensive to manufacture — yes, requiring a well-trained crew — yes. Well, so it was made for the anti-tank struggle and the tasks of it and the T-34 are different. T-34 infantry support weapons, and it is incorrect to compare them. And certainly the T-34 Tiger does not lose in open battle, rather the opposite.
          1. +1
            22 January 2013 13: 00
            Quote: Vladimirets
            Well, so it was made for anti-tank struggle

            Sorry, but it wasn’t produced, but was used, it had, as it were, other tasks.
            Do not confuse Panzerjäger Tiger Sd.Kfz.186 (Jagdtiger)

            with PzKpfw VI "Tiger" for example
            1. 0
              22 January 2013 15: 45
              Quote: Cynic
              Sorry, but not produced, but used, he, as it were, has other tasks

              If not a secret, which ones?
            2. +2
              22 January 2013 16: 06
              Quote: Cynic
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Well, so it was made for anti-tank struggle
              Sorry, but it wasn’t produced, but was used, it had, as it were, other tasks.
              Do not confuse Panzerjäger Tiger Sd.Kfz.186 (Jagdtiger)

              Wikipedia:
              According to some Western historians, the main task of the Tiger tank was to fight against enemy tanks, and its design corresponded to the solution of this particular problem [4]:

              If in the initial period of World War II the German military doctrine was mainly offensive, then later, when the strategic situation changed to the opposite, the tanks began to play the role of a means of eliminating the breakthroughs of German defense.

              Thus, the Tiger tank was conceived primarily as a means of combating enemy tanks, whether on the defensive or on the offensive. Consideration of this fact is necessary for understanding the design features and tactics of using the Tigers.

              On July 21, 1943, the commander of the 3rd Panzer Corps, German Bright, issued the following instructions for the combat use of the Tiger-I tank [5]:

              ... Given the strength of armor and the strength of weapons, the Tiger should be used mainly against enemy tanks and anti-tank weapons, and only secondarily, as an exception, against infantry units.

              As the experience of battles showed, the Tiger’s weapons allow it to fight with enemy tanks at distances of 2000 meters or more, which especially affects the morale of the enemy. Strong armor allows the Tiger to move closer to the enemy without the risk of serious damage from hits. Nevertheless, one should try to start the battle with enemy tanks at distances of more than 1000 meters.
              1. 0
                23 January 2013 11: 13
                Quote: Vladimirets
                According to some Western historians,

                According to others, by the way more numerous, the Tiger was created as breakthrough tank .
                By the way, Vicki is another source.
                Well, yourself, analyze the information contained in your post given the time it began to be developed, and this is somewhere around 37/38:
                Quote: Vladimirets
                in the initial period of World War II, the German military doctrine was mainly offensive ...

                You want to say at that time you knew that
                Quote: Vladimirets
                then later, when the strategic situation changed to the opposite, the tanks began to play the role of a means of eliminating the breakthroughs of German defense.

                Reich professed the theory of blitzkrieg, as ours had a theory of war on foreign territory and all those who disagree both there and here, at best, for Mozhai!
                A pearl
                Quote: Vladimirets
                “Tiger” was conceived primarily as a means of combating enemy tanks, whether in defense or offensive. Consideration of this fact is necessary for understanding the design features and tactics of using the Tigers.

                Maybe
                In accordance with the designation as a heavy tank of a breakthrough, the Tiger I had a powerful reservation on all sides.

                In general, just about everything as with the expression
                “Science has a lot of geeks”
                but it was originally
                “Science knows a lot of giants”
                drinks
          2. 0
            22 January 2013 16: 53
            The tank should combine everything I wrote above. Fighting tanks is not a priority. Therefore, the Tiger (the design task of which was given in the fortieth year (I could be mistaken)) is a mistake of the "Teutonic genius". Like the subsequent tanks. Therefore, the rating "Tank against tank" is incredible stupidity. If you really understand, then in the first place in hot spots - Merkava, in the first place in the World War - domestic T80-90. The first one has good protection (engine in front) and landing, the second power reserve, dynamics and three tankers instead of four.
        2. 0
          25 February 2019 11: 52
          Quote: LION
          The tiger was already losing in that it was not a tank at all, but a tank destroyer. He was not suitable for a blitzkrieg. On the Kursk Bulge it was used en masse and attacked in the forehead. The tank must break through the defenses and go to the rear to smash communications, warehouses, headquarters, supply convoys, cut roads in important directions, etc.

          Sorry, just the Tiger - a full-fledged tank just against field defense. It has a serious reservation, both the forehead and the sides, which allows you to safely maneuver on the field, and also has a full high-explosive projectile suitable for the destruction of field fortifications.
          Cruising range of 80-150 km allows you to make a breakthrough in the right place and consolidate success. The stock of shells for several days of fighting. What is it worthless, except for the price?
    2. +3
      22 January 2013 09: 25
      ??? I wonder why this T-VI is losing the T-34 ???
      1. -1
        22 January 2013 11: 15
        Black Colonel, ??? I wonder why this T-VI is losing the T-34 ???
        1-range defeat at a direct distance
        2-armor
        3 sights
        4-availability connection
        5-improved commander review
        6-gear
        1. -1
          22 January 2013 13: 02
          You forgot to mention the sub point: the presence of a night sight.
        2. postman
          +3
          22 January 2013 22: 33
          Quote: Drejk
          1
          88 mm KwK 36 (with electric release) versus 85 mm ZIS-S-53
          (see table below)
          tests in the British army managed to achieve five consecutive hits on a target measuring 40 × 50 cm from a distance of 1100 m.
          Quote: Drejk
          2-armor
          ,Yes....
          The economic blockade did not allow to obtain alloying additives, and many of them did not have their own deposits in Germany.
          OTHER EQUAL CONDITIONS: which "hardware" will you choose?
          Quote: Drejk
          3 sights

          T-VI
          - Gunner’s hinge sight.
          - The Pz.Kpfw.VI optical sight (TZF9b / TZF9c) allowed firing on armored vehicles without training at a distance of 1200 meters. After the shooting, the Tiger could hit a stationary tank at a distance of 2500 meters. The design and excellent quality of the sight allowed to fire at dusk.
          The 11-ton tower was hydraulically rotated with variable speed

          Quote: Drejk
          4-availability connection

          FuG5 Why is it bad?

          Quote: Drejk
          5-improved commander review

          ?
          http://pro-tank.ru/images/stories/tank-t-34-85/tank-t-34-85_38-big.jpg

          http://pro-tank.ru/images/stories/2-mirovaya/germany/tank-tiger-6_04.jpg
          http://pro-tank.ru/images/stories/2-mirovaya/germany/tank-tiger-6_08.jpg

          Quote: Drejk
          6-gear

          An automatic hydraulic transmission servo-drive made it possible to shift gears, which were eight forward and four back, with two fingers! And the rotation of the tank was carried out by a slight turn of the helm. There was no such convenient control on any tank of the Second World War, with the exception of the Royal Tiger, where the same transmission was used.
          Test Drive. heavy tank Tiger Pz-Vl

          + RFP MG 42
    3. 0
      22 January 2013 10: 51
      No, there is a serious war for the sale of tanks, but how to improve the image the only way
    4. +2
      22 January 2013 11: 12
      I can not agree. In equal battle, the tiger never lost the t-34, if only because the performance characteristics of both tanks were imprisoned for different things. T34-mobile melee and medium battle tank (500-1000m) T34-85-do1800metrov. The power of the tiger relates it to tanks for working at long and medium distances. The 88mm long-barreled gun could hit enemy tanks at a distance of 1500km and this was facilitated by good Zeiss sights. If the battle took place at distances of 300 meters or less, then the difference in booking was reduced to zero and the tank won, whose crew skillfully maneuvered and got out of the attack. So do not write nonsense, comparing TT and CT. My grandfather fought on the T-34, and when meeting with the tigers, they never went into equal battle.
      1. +1
        22 January 2013 12: 05
        You’re wrong, my friend Drejk .... In close combat, the T-34 maneuvered faster than the tiger’s tower was spinning ... So if the T-34 went to close combat (even with 76mm), the tigers are krantets ... That’s even the Germans admit ... Yes, and the classes are different, the tiger is a heavy tank, and the T-34 is medium ..
        1. +1
          22 January 2013 12: 09
          yes yes and in WOT herds of mice run around.
      2. +1
        22 January 2013 15: 51
        Quote: Drejk
        I can not agree. In equal battle, the tiger never lost the t-34, if only because the performance characteristics of both tanks were imprisoned for different things.

        Who are you arguing with yourself now? At least quotes insert those to whom your comments relate. Everything seems to be stated above that the Tiger is more powerful than the T-34, at least because it is tanks of different classes.
    5. +1
      22 January 2013 12: 44
      Quote: logik
      an example is the T-34 and the Tiger, the armor of the latter is much larger, but in battle it loses.

      Loses somewhere with the score 3: 1.
    6. vitya29111973
      0
      23 January 2013 00: 57
      That's just the problem: the thirty-four did not penetrate the tiger’s frontal armor and never won, therefore, in the forty-fourth the T-34-85 modification came out.
      1. 0
        23 January 2013 20: 41
        Tigers were mainly used from ambushes ... that was his main tactic.
      2. 0
        25 February 2019 13: 13
        Quote: vitya29111973
        That's just the problem, the thirty-four did not break through the frontal armor of the tiger and never won

        Yes, in general, and with the airborne problem was, because the quality of the shells left much to be desired due to violations in technology. There were no competent technologists and materials scientists, the scientific potential after the civil war was at zero, and in 10 years, a scientific school could not be raised.
    7. 0
      4 November 2017 10: 55
      Let's figure it out. T-90 of any modifications full localization of development and production in Russia. Abrams was a complete development and production in the USA was once. Challenger was the development and production in England. Leclerc was the development of full production in France. Leopard was the development and production. Now France and Germany are only talking about the joint design and production of BT. Merkava full production and design of BT. For local conflicts, the technique of England, France, Germany may be suitable, and as the author pointed out before the battalion. All that is longer and longer from the realm of fantasy. Since there are, first of all, no mob. Resources - crews, unlike China, Russia and Israel. something like this for today. And let the author dream.
  18. Baboon
    0
    22 January 2013 07: 54
    And if you also add rate of fire? The Leclerc seems to have a good rate of fire.
  19. +2
    22 January 2013 07: 56
    I read it, neighing !!! This is nonsense, here is the author of the storyteller, neighing, thanks !!! I don’t even want to comment
    1. Ash
      Ash
      +4
      22 January 2013 07: 57
      The author of the article is a pro-Western Ukrainian journalist. :)
      1. 0
        25 February 2019 13: 18
        Quote: Ash
        The author of the article is a pro-Western Ukrainian journalist. :)

        Well, why pro-Western. A small-town nationalist, of those gopniks who go on a gang to a neighboring yard to fight.
    2. 0
      22 January 2013 10: 53
      Other tank representatives laughed along with you
  20. logic
    +4
    22 January 2013 08: 01
    There was a post about our tank in Syria, here is a real indicator, approval (gratitude) of the crew (living) for the tank.
  21. Ash
    Ash
    +1
    22 January 2013 08: 01
    Fifth place in the tank rating divides [with whom shares ???]the new South Korean third-generation tank K-2 Black Panther. South Korean tank scored 6 wins and 6 fights lost to the first fourи tank rating.
    -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------


    Serious fears for the author’s competence, not only as a specialist in armored vehicles, but also as a journalist. He even confuses cases. The author, a gram of the Nazis can come for you! Aren't you afraid?
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 09: 27
      Yes, he seems to be translating an article in Promte
  22. +3
    22 January 2013 08: 02
    Quote: predator.3
    firepower and security ... "

    It is interesting how all this was taken into account, for example, rate of fire, mobility, the terrain of battle, the operation of nodes and units and the probability of their failure, etc. And why only 2 km? At a distance of 2 km, the Tigers fought :) It is necessary to start IMHO by advancing to the concentration area, remembering more about the Panthers near Kursk :)))
    But I’m really picking on it. In order to simulate normally, IMHO needs to roll back all tanks on the same training ground and remove a set of parameters from each. And so ...
    BUT it’s good already that it’s not just like in most ratings that someone has thicker armor and a gun ... longer :), but they model it!
  23. +2
    22 January 2013 08: 03
    Where did this rating come from? Bullshit is all this.
  24. logic
    +2
    22 January 2013 08: 05
    Quote: Egen
    whose armor is thicker and the gun ... longer :), but they model it!

    I appreciate your humor laughing
  25. Stan badboy
    +7
    22 January 2013 08: 05
    Aha-ha. Thank you neighing in the morning over this "rating" led by the "invincible" T-84. I haven’t laughed like that for a long time. I’ll have to give GurKhan a link. Let him laugh at the Kharkov tank "products" too. They are in their Kharkov Can't produce rollers for export 72s by removing them from the T-55. And their tank is in the first place? In general, not a rating, but a complete idiot crap causing only an ironic smile.
  26. stalker
    +2
    22 January 2013 08: 14
    Here is the rating !! All ratings are rated ((in the furnace
  27. andsavichev2012
    +3
    22 January 2013 08: 15
    This article is based on the results of battles in the World of Tanks ???
    1. Stan badboy
      +2
      22 January 2013 08: 20
      Yes, nothing ... it's better. Here, according to the results taken from the bulldozer. It looks like the agony of the Kharkov factory. Apparently, things are really bad.
  28. +2
    22 January 2013 08: 18
    Stupid rating. Not taken into account the difference in tactics of application, what is a counter tank battle? 41 versus 41. And in what area? Central European plain, Arctic, mountains, desert? Different machines are created for different conditions and tactics. For that matter, some of them will really never have to meet. would then publish schemes, counting tables. In my opinion, all the modeling happened in someone's head. So they would have written: as an advertisement for the plant named after Malysheva.
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 09: 30
      Tanks can be found, for example, in neighboring caponiers.
  29. BTRANDREI
    0
    22 January 2013 08: 40
    The article was written by UA and the coolest T-64 (stronghold), in Russia they are all sent for re-melting. Only so, super article :).
    1. 0
      25 January 2013 15: 14
      and write, then on what you created your stronghold, we have already handed over for scrap.
  30. +7
    22 January 2013 08: 40
    Something I didn’t understand, did we start direct advertising for the game World of Tanks on our website? I cannot evaluate the article otherwise, because I have not read a more "mundane" rating.
    I don’t want to offend the author, but I can give advice: it’s better to continue playing "shooters". Technical and combat expertise is clearly not your strong point!
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 11: 47
      her tanks forced lower but the current of the Chinese. There were no Ukrainian tanks in the USSR
  31. 0
    22 January 2013 08: 43
    "The best main battle tank in the world in 2012, the Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot." And if the Russian T 80 is removed from this Ukrainian tank, what will remain?
    1. 0
      26 January 2013 21: 43
      I’ll clarify, remove the Soviet T-80. But Russia, as the legal successor of the USSR, has the full right to say - the Russian tank.
  32. Mr. Truth
    +1
    22 January 2013 08: 49
    Did this "modeling" happen by chance in Andryushka's head?
  33. +1
    22 January 2013 08: 54
    if you write an agitation, you would try to openly advertise words - the most modern is the most incredible protected, well, at the end of the track record of the plant))))) well, the track record of the Pakistan plant was not posted if the article is the most preferential in the world?))) )))
  34. +2
    22 January 2013 09: 00
    Taken from the Ukrainian site on alternative history. Even discussing this article is not serious.
  35. 3030
    0
    22 January 2013 09: 14
    Looks like an advertising booklet for T-84 tanks! "The best main battle tank in the world in 2012, the Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot, is produced at the State Enterprise Malyshev Plant in the city of Kharkov." - What modesty in the advertising brochure! lol
  36. Shulz-1955
    0
    22 January 2013 09: 17
    Yeah, I don’t know what to write. Well, everyone already knows that, and it’s not necessary. Finger nonsense.
  37. +1
    22 January 2013 09: 22

    IMHO the best tanks are those who are constantly fighting, and do not stand at exhibitions.
    So this whole Soviet zoo + carrot + abrasha
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 13: 59
      ______________
      I try))))))))))))
      1. +2
        22 January 2013 15: 35
        Kstet and why did you stuff this Polish misunderstanding.
        And what about the challi 2 that he did not put in 1st or 2nd place?
        1. +1
          22 January 2013 15: 41
          Quote: leon-iv
          why are you

          I don’t need someone else’s, I just spent 20 minutes reposting.
          Quote: leon-iv
          And what about the challi 2 that he did not put in 1st or 2nd place?

          Only on the second, there may be real buyers of tanks here, and I won’t repeat the mistakes of the generals of the Russian Federation with 17 upgrades.
          1. +5
            22 January 2013 15: 44
            leon-iv,
            Kars,

            shit. feel
          2. 0
            22 January 2013 16: 00
            lolko and more popular poets you sell 72 matches?
            1. 0
              22 January 2013 16: 05
              Quote: leon-iv
              Are you selling pops to 72?

              But do the Papuans have money for Oplot? Or will the Papuans be able to master it?

              So the Papuans are poop, and if there is money (like Thailand, by the way, are they poop?) Then Bastions.
              1. +2
                22 January 2013 16: 19
                Quote: Kars
                So the Papuans are poop, and if there is money (like Thailand, by the way, are they poop?)


                Andrey, rushing into you. you are in shock.
                Quote: Kars
                Papuans popuasnoe
                1. 0
                  22 January 2013 16: 57
                  Quote: vorobey
                  . you are in shock

                  Years of training, with bringing the same arguments, to the same pritenzii.

                  And the professor thanked the ungrateful blacklisted me. There, if anything on the subject, you will answer him, I quote in full.
                  In the course, I put Morkov 3 instead of 4,)))))
                  1. -2
                    22 January 2013 18: 44
                    And here's another interesting ---- post a serious article

                    http://topwar.ru/12977-tank-chelovek-sreda-mashina.html

                    there are 50 comments in half a year.

                    And on this for half a day 200))))) as much as a specialist is, already horror))))))
              2. 0
                12 March 2015 22: 02
                Azerbaijan and India must also be considered in the list of Papuans ??? Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Byv. Yugoslav. Papuan too? Poles and Czechs, India and Iraq also bought a license! and when telling about the Papuans, remember one nuance (a little off topic) all the Iranian nuclear scientists (who force the whole west with bricks) gained knowledge in the nuclear field in the west and have Western diplomas, etc. etc.! today's president of Iran defends his dissertation (I don’t remember what kind of institute) is the best in Britain. it is the Papuans.
  38. +1
    22 January 2013 09: 25
    Ha ha ha ha Ukraine is promoting Oplotik ....
    Well, yes, where are the leclerk, Merkav, not to mention the T-90 to the very "Oplot"!
    Laughter. From the series "drill vnaklon".
  39. +4
    22 January 2013 09: 27
    Primary source, site "Alternative history" http://alternathistory.org.ua/samye-luchshie-osnovnye-boevye-tanki-mira-na-2012-
    god certainly deserves 100% confidence. Resolve to predict a rating depending on a site domain:
    .ua - Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot
    .pk - Pakistani Al-Khalid Mk. 1
    .in - Indian Arjun Mk. 1
    .gb - British Challenger-2
    .kr - South Korean K2 Black Panther
    .fr - French AMX-56 Leclerk
    .de - German Leopard-2A7
    .us - American Abrams M1A2 SEP version 2
    .il - Israeli Merkava Mk.4
    .pl - Polish PT-91M Twardy
    .jp - Japanese Type-10
    .cn - Chinese ZTZ-99A2
    .ru - Russian T-90MS Tagil
  40. akbarr
    +1
    22 January 2013 09: 36
    I’m not going to talk about the rating yet - nonsense from beginning to end.
    Delivered a photograph of an Indian tank - decorated with Hindu flower wreaths like a holy cow on the eve of a local holiday wink
  41. +6
    22 January 2013 09: 48
    Left article - they write about Merkava 4, and the photos were uploaded by the third model ... damn experts. fool
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 13: 10
      Quote: professor
      and posted a photo

      You need to be thankful for this, otherwise you would have posted

      and prove that this is not the last Merkava model, such as the fifth
  42. 0
    22 January 2013 09: 54
    I will simply quote, conventionally agreeing with them: according to the BPS, Tarasenko determined the equivalent of 90mm for the protection of the T-800A frontal part. On the same website, Tarasenko, in his article "US Tank Ammunition of 120mm Caliber", gives the following armor penetration values ​​for American BPS, calculated using the Lanz Odermat formula: M-829A1–651 mm, M-829A2 - 710 mm, M-829A3 - 770 mm. At the same time, for modifications A1 and A2, the forecast values ​​of the Russian Research Institute of Steel and TASOM data are also given. For A1, respectively, 700 and 635mm, for A2 - 750 and 620mm.
    This is taken from this article http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2013/01/blog-post_22.html
    I think a conclusion can be made. I will give one more link http://btvt.narod.ru/1/tank3.htm.
  43. sonovlad
    0
    22 January 2013 09: 58
    some crap
  44. Nechai
    +5
    22 January 2013 09: 59
    Quote: Egen
    And why only 2 km?

    Increase the firing range and the Abrams goes to at least the middle of the list. Does the modulator even know that the M1A2 gunner can measure the range with a quantum rangefinder NOT MORE often once every 8 seconds?
    Strange organizational structure of TB in 41 vehicles ... Simplified virtual simulation of "ideal tank battle in a vacuum". With an effort to "objectivity and independence" from realities ... Yeah, such a new knightly tournament.
    1. Eraser
      +1
      22 January 2013 13: 51
      Increase the firing range and the Abrams goes to at least the middle of the list. Does the modulator even know that the M1A2 gunner can measure the range with a quantum rangefinder NOT MORE often once every 8 seconds?
      , but you can source on this info, just please not the words of the French gamer who Abrams saw only in the pictures. lol
      1. +3
        22 January 2013 17: 52
        Quote: Eraser
        Increase the firing range and the Abrams goes to at least the middle of the list. Does the modulator even know that the M1A2 gunner can measure the range with a quantum rangefinder NOT MORE often once every 8 seconds?
        , but you can source on this info


        There will be no direct information, but I think this is interesting. indirect confirmation, so to speak.


        The wavelength of holmium and thulium lasers is 2,0 μm. This radiation is not only safe for the eyes, but also less attenuated by a dusty atmosphere. In addition, he has significantly weaker (about 16 times) compared with the wavelengths of 1,06 and 1,54 μm Rayleigh scattering, which facilitates the implementation of covert range measurements. It is believed that these lasers have good operational and minimum weight and size characteristics. However, there is no information about the use of these lasers in complexes of tank and anti-tank weapons.
        The most promising for samples of armored vehicles are carbon dioxide (CO2) lasers, compatible with a radiation wavelength of 10,6 μm with the spectral range of standard thermal imaging sights (8 ... 12 μm). Positive properties of the emission of CO2 lasers:

        safe for the eyes;
        taking measurements through the curtains of exhaust gases of tank engines, haze and light fog;
        the possibility of using meteorological ballistic factors in automatic accounting systems, for example, for assessing the lateral component of wind speed and in "friend or foe" systems;
        the possibility of realizing a high frequency of repetition pulses.
        Disadvantages of CO2 lasers:
        coincidence of the wavelength of the propagated radiation with the line of its strong absorption by water vapor of the atmosphere;
        low reflectivity of objects (tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, etc.) at a wavelength of 10,6 microns in comparison with the ability to reflect radiation with a shorter wavelength;
        difficulty in manufacturing and higher cost characteristics;
        insufficiently high reliability.
        Apparently, these shortcomings cause a certain drop in the interest of foreign specialists in CO2 lasers, which was manifested, in particular, at the 2001 exhibition in Abu Dhabi, at which they were not presented. However, it is precisely such lasers that modern models of M-1 series tanks (USA) can be supplied, manufactured directly for their army, as well as the latest BMP series M-2 models, the modernization program of which includes bringing these machines to a new standard that meets the requirements of the beginning of the current century.

        The most promising type of laser, in spite of a number of shortcomings noted, is CO2 - a laser combined with standard thermal imaging systems. Modern models of armored vehicles in the United States are supplied with just such lasers

        http://www.ormvd-zib.ru/mag/1041.html
        1. +3
          22 January 2013 18: 08
          and here are some more interesting things for abramophiles.

          Shortly after the operation was completed, the U.S. Army leadership instructed the Main Financial and Control Department to conduct an analysis of the effectiveness of American armaments and military equipment (B and W) in the Persian Gulf in order to more fully bring the armament capabilities into line with customers' requirements. With regard to armored weapons, such analysis was subjected to the actions of the M1 and M1A1 Abrams tanks, as well as BMP M2A1 and M2A2 Bradley. During the operation in the Persian Gulf, they showed a fairly high efficiency. However, according to the information of the service of the deputy chief of staff of the US Army ground for operational matters and planning, during the period of the hostilities there were hit 20 BMD "Bradley" and 12 were damaged. Of this number, 17 vehicles were damaged and three were damaged by the fire of American troops. Of the nine Abrams tanks destroyed, seven were fired by “their own”.

          The reason for such frequent firing at their vehicles, according to American experts, was the lack of sights on the Abrams tanks and on the Bradley BMP, which had a large magnification ratio and high resolution.

          Participants in the hostilities and representatives of the army training center in their reports also confirmed the need to solve the problem. One training center report indicated that gunners could see potential targets at range 4 m and more, detected by thermal imaging sights, while on the displays they looked like “hot spots”. Identification of the goal, that is, recognition of the “friend or foe” object, was possible only at a distance of 000 - 1 m in clear weather and 500-2 m in conditions of limited visibility.
          The main armament of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles was capable of hitting targets beyond these ranges: ATGM TOU - at a distance of 3 m, 750-mm tank gun - 120 m or more, 3-mm gun BMP "Bradley" - 000 m.

          http://www.soldiering.ru/army/tank/so_obt.php
          1. Eraser
            +1
            22 January 2013 20: 37
            Well, they learn from their mistakes, because they solved the problems. I actually asked Nechai about infe, because I had already seen several times that after the appearance of that article (although it’s already old, but the gur-khan breathed a second life into it), people are already using their misinformation as facts, and this is not OK.
  45. +5
    22 January 2013 10: 27
    Very interesting rating. and very interesting tests.

    Quote.

    In the conditions of simulation of oncoming tank battle, the battalion against the battalion, the winner of the tank rating was determined by the complete destruction of the enemy tank battalion.

    Further. quote
    Between themselves oncoming tank battle tanks Leopard 2A7 and M1A2 SEP V2 Abrams reduced to a draw, knocking out battalions of one second to one combat-ready surviving tank.

    The newly-formed Japanese Type-10 tank adopted by the Japanese armed forces in January 2012 and the Israeli most advanced tank Merkava Mk.4 share the third place among themselves.

    In the oncoming tank battle, these two types of tanks won 12 victories in 8 battles, one battle brought together and lost three battles, the first three tanks of the rating - the Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot, the German Leopard 2A7 and the American M1A2 SEP V2 Abrams.


    Toli guys are nonsense. toli paranoia.

    quote.
    The basis for the tank battalion was taken by the state battalion in the 41 tank. In complex simulation modeling, the oncoming tank battle was taken as the basis of the battle.
    The maximum initial distance of a combat collision between tank battalions was set at 2 kilometers

    but the conclusions already quote
    The battle was based on the oncoming tank battle of a tank battalion against a tank battalion at a distance not less than 2 kilometers.

    dear author, did you shoot stationary models on the surface of Lake Chudskoye?

    This is a true rating. the author does not show this work to anyone else.
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 14: 10
      What is not clear here? In the mat. The model introduced a negative approach speed. hi
  46. 0
    22 January 2013 10: 33
    Interestingly, only I get the impression that this is a Ukrainian banter, designed to show how all these ratings are compiled?
    A sample is taken, which should take first place, and evaluation criteria are adapted to it.
  47. Nechai
    +2
    22 January 2013 10: 37
    Quote: vorobey
    work.

    Do you think that this is "work" ?! Then the author just hunch back on the pot.
    1. +2
      22 January 2013 10: 53
      Hello Valera.

      Thank you very much to the administration and site for the fact that the speech and spelling of the author were left unchanged in their original form.

      Valera can only say thanks to the author for the bottom photo 62, by the way an interesting model. Caterpillars with OMSH yet. I agree that this is one of the best tanks of the 20th century.
      1. 0
        22 January 2013 14: 02
        Quote: vorobey
        say thanks to the author for the bottom photo 62

        This is my personal addition to the original source (even though it was also reposted in Alt)
        1. +2
          22 January 2013 15: 14
          Quote: Kars
          Quote: vorobey
          say thanks to the author for the bottom photo 62

          This is my personal addition to the source.


          Hi, hi. I felt a catch, though I didn’t consider what. everything is so serious. And even T84 steers. drinks
          1. +1
            22 January 2013 15: 21
            And what a cool article. How many emotions aroused. It was also difficult for me to agree with such a low place of Challenger 2.
            Quote: vorobey
            And even T84 steers

            naturally
            1. +3
              22 January 2013 15: 41
              Quote: Kars
              naturally


              if you still say that leon was aware of this razvodilov I will be offended and will stand under the banners of your worst enemies, the Gurkhanists.

              And I almost believed in the sincerity of such a study. but only a knowledgeable person could pry off with 62.
              1. +1
                22 January 2013 15: 49
                Quote: vorobey
                you still say that leon was in the know

                maybe ---- I threw him a link to this article on yesterday's article about Mali.
                Quote: vorobey
                And I almost believed in the sincerity of such a study

                Well, the author is most likely sincere, and I will support BM Oplot in the first place in any case (therefore, in principle, I voiced my ratings without mentioning it, but as soon as the first tanks are adopted by Thailand ....)
                Quote: vorobey
                but so knowing could only 62
                until the last minute I was sure that it was a T-55, the accordion diverted all my attention, then I just looked closely.

                But let someone try to deny that the T-55/62 is not the best tanks.
                1. 0
                  22 January 2013 16: 05
                  But let someone try to deny that the T-55/62 is not the best tanks.
                  By the way, they will also steer in battles for a long time.
                  , but as soon as the first tanks will be adopted by Thailand ....
                  but as soon as the first baht drives them a year. that is more correct. And it’s even more correct a year after the Thais themselves have served that year.
                  1. 0
                    22 January 2013 16: 08
                    Quote: Kars
                    but as soon as the first tanks will be adopted by Thailand

                    No, it’s exactly how it will be transferred to service.
                    Quote: leon-iv
                    how Thais themselves serve this year.

                    then that the T-55 is complete crap after what the Arabs did to them in the Arab-Israeli wars?
  48. +1
    22 January 2013 10: 38
    An under-trained crew will be able to crawl any tank in battle ..... at least 90, at least 80, at least a leopard ... The battle strategy must be present in the crew’s minds first ... Automation and electronics will not fight, the human factor is 100% success of the battle .. IMHO.
  49. +8
    22 January 2013 10: 40
    Demonstration tank (concept tank) T-90MS Tagil is another improved modernization the most modern morally obsolete serial Russian main battle tank T-90A model 2006
    This is about a Russian tank, there are still not enough qualities such as Ocupantian, Gazorvarian, and the filthy Finugor is not Slavic at all laughing
    only one tank takes the first place in the rating - the Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot

    There is not a word about moral aging and anything else, stupidly the best and point
    Guess who wrote the rating? laughing
    that they all have a common characteristic error that makes their results not legitimate
    This mistake is that they are not Ukrainians laughing
  50. Akim
    +1
    22 January 2013 10: 47
    I will not argue who is better. Let's start with the fact that "our" Tannkists have completely different tactics. vorobey I hope to confirm my words that in our battalion there are only 31 tanks (for the tank brigade) in the mechanized brigade in the battalion of 40 tanks. A completely different combat formation (depth, front, etc.)
    By the way, the Poles have tanks of Soviet types and German. When the Soviet tanks switched to Western tactics, they were the losers. They didn’t fit for it. Experts suggested developing a combined tactic, but those who shook the West refused.
  51. 116rus
    +2
    22 January 2013 11: 09
    Just the author - lokhmajun
  52. +2
    22 January 2013 11: 25
    The article is 100% order from the Kharkov plant. “Simulated test” is a delusion of a sick imagination. If you're lying, lie believably.
  53. +2
    22 January 2013 11: 50
    That means we play tanks on a computer, dear author... Nu-nu... Minus you for this rating...
    1. +4
      22 January 2013 11: 53
      It’s no wonder the author has humor and understands the essence of tanks.
      The most important thing was in this photo
      1. +1
        22 January 2013 11: 59
        Quote: leon-iv
        The most important thing was in this photo

        drinks good
        1. +2
          22 January 2013 12: 09
          The disposition was as follows ... We delivered transport to the necessary point of the route with training aids, uniforms, turret DShKs, paired and course SGMT and other accessories of the young tanker's school, but we did not find the tanks themselves there. The tanks promised to be adjusted in ten to twelve days, and by the way, the personnel of the training center moved with them, and the future cadets were little in place, so there was already a barracks for them, where they joyfully indulged in idleness. Cadets, by the way, were somewhat peculiar for these places. It was the former guard of some kind of oil fields or mines, it consisted exclusively of mulattos, plus these mulattos owned small arms, knew how to handle vehicles and, most importantly, sympathized with the ideas of Socialism. Well, idleness, this is not permissible for a soldier, as the Chief Advisor told us, and having presented a radiogram from our leadership, he ordered, without further ado, to begin the production of the training process and carry it on until the arrival of equipment and staff.

          Well, what we decided, the order is the order and took up the cadets with all diligence.

          Due to the lack of tanks, we decided to learn them from posters, cut-through manuals on equipment and weapons, and a little something else that they will certainly come in handy in the future.

          The cockroach and Akim nearly got into a fight when they discussed the curriculum, but the Baron quickly gave all the brothers the alkali. The cadets were divided into three training platoons of eight people each, and Akim, Arkany and Tarakana were appointed instructor commanders, respectively.

          And the commander approved the curriculum drawn up by Akim and Tarakan and ordered it to be implemented, naturally making a number of minor changes.

          Both Akim and Cockroach were sadists in life, Cockroach by position, Akim by vocation, and they were prevented from developing in this vocation only by the lack of proper objects, and here were three dozen mulattoes. So, to strengthen the physical training of future tank crews, the most common cypress log in the amount of three pieces was used, fortunately the cypress trees in these places were completely primus.

          That is, for each platoon of eight people, one log was allocated and movement outside the barracks, canteen and classrooms without a log was not allowed. The cadets even went to the toilet with a log. Of course, this did not evoke positive emotions among the lazy guards, but they stopped by to look at our home-made simulators (full-size mock-ups of tanks, on which the crews trained in loading and unloading themselves with sick and at the same time training shells, as well as in the gas command, beloved in all branches of the military). The Commandante was delighted, approved, promised to introduce this technique in all revolutionary units and crews and awarded the fussing Akim some kind of terribly tacky medal, which greatly offended Cockroach (Arkana didn’t care).

          Nevertheless, there was tension in the units, but in different ways. The best thing was in Akim’s platoon, he always knew how to get along with his subordinates (but not with his superiors), he impressed all his cadets with the precision of his shooting “in the Macedonian style” and here he also showed well-known diplomacy, declaring to his platoon that they had a common medal, because he deserved it the entire platoon with their youthful appearance, although precisely on the day of the award, the unfortunate mulattoes passing by the Comandante after a kilometer-long march, in their youthfulness were closest to the famous humoresque by Nikulinin and Shuidin - “Log”.
          1. +2
            22 January 2013 12: 11
            Due to his size, Arkana was treated with respect from the very beginning, and in addition he got himself a stack, which he practically didn’t touch anyone with, but his cadets looked at the instructor like the Mongols at Ungern, because this stick, the size of a shovel handle, seemed like a stack only in Arkani’s paw .

            Cockroach in the group initially even had something like secret sabotage, since he was assigned to the platoon by the former elite of the security detachment, and he was short and thin, but the captain was no stranger and during the morning formation, before exercise, he announced to his platoon that if two volunteers can defeat him in hand-to-hand combat, the platoon will spend the entire day today without a log. The cockroach spent about five minutes instead, solely for clarity, and after that the dissatisfaction went deeper, so to speak.

            But the most important point was naturally made by the Baron. During the morning formation, he stood in front of the formation in silence for some time, only occasionally clicking a button and the lid of a beautiful plastic box hanging on a thin strap thrown over his shoulder. The box contained a device officially called APS, and colloquially “Stechkin”, this miracle machine had 20 rounds of ammunition in the magazine and could fire in bursts. There was dead silence on the parade ground because everyone knew that this clicking sound meant that the commander was in a very bad mood, the silence was broken by the howling of the cook from our canteen, he was led to the parade ground by Sergeant Major Tarasyuk, pushing him with the butt of his favorite machine gun, followed by two soldiers from the service and security company of the Center, They dragged the storekeeper, who could no longer walk due to his body being weak. The story was as old as time... The cook took his nephew as a storekeeper and together they naturally stole a little, but not fatally, but the storekeeper exceeded the shrinkage quota and ended up on Tarasyuk’s pencil.

            The line of cadets almost simultaneously breathed a sigh of relief; the culprits were on the side today. The commander, as usual, was strict but fair. The storekeeper was simply kicked out, and a tanga was hung on the cook, in the form of a box of beer and two blocks of cigarettes every day for ten calendar days, and then after a long pause, the Baron announced that beer and cigarettes would be received by the unit that would be the first to complete the morning cross-country (500 meters with a log). The cadets sincerely shouted hurray and the next morning, a cadet who was late for formation for exercise received a kick from all his comrades who could reach him.

            But all good things cannot last long, because the commander was informed that an important and distinguished Moscow guest was coming, all the way from Glavpur and would check the water training of the cadets, to which, to put it mildly, we had nothing to do, which, however, did not protect us from the wrath of the authorities. The commander arranged an emergency meeting, at which, after unanimous neighing, Akim’s proposal was accepted. Everything was cheap and cheerful, on training logs and mock-ups of tanks, it was proposed to stick four portraits of the founders and thus drive into the heads of the cadets at least the name and position of fighters for the people's happiness in particular and for socialism in general. They sent Tarasyuk to get the portraits, giving him a dozen penknives for the exchange fund (a couple of dozen October stars, Andrei himself added reluctantly from his reserves). And by the end of the day, portraits of Marx, Engels, Angela Davis and... Paul Robeson rustled proudly on the logs and models. Akim and Cockroach were hysterical, even the usually calm Arkanya was laughing.
            1. +1
              22 January 2013 12: 12
              I drove Tarasyuk into a corner and forced him to lay out the entire gesheft scheme with Robson. At first, Tarasyuk said in an honest and pitiful voice, well, you yourself ordered comrade major to find some hero of the national struggle for Soviet power, but I simply forgot to report about canned food and kin with vukhi. Kin with the Woohoos of course intrigued me, but I finally decided to leave his conversation. Well, then a chain of operations followed, at the sight of which Ostap Bender would have hanged himself, and Andy Tucker would have shot himself...

              First of all, Tarasyuk visited the headquarters of the local youth socialist organization and exchanged portraits of Marx and Engels for stars, then he visited the only local second-hand bookseller (his own bookseller and newspaper dealer) and received an illustrated album, the royal dynasties of Portugal and a pack of posters for just two penknives - Angela Davis , Vice President of the United States (the posters came as a bonus, and seeing the posters, Tarasyuk told the bookseller that he would never sell this rubbish to anyone, after which the dealer literally forced these posters on the foreman as a bonus). And then the foreman ran into a local black market businessman who owed him something. When asked if there was any national hero, the speculator, timid from fear, betrayed the resident insurgents to the foreman. Tarasyuk quickly swiped this information from the local security officers for a box of light bulbs and continued the search, exchanging along the way for several penknives and an album with Portuguese kings, a donkey (a kin with woofs), which he loaded with light bulbs. After which he returned to the second-hand bookseller and exchanged a box of canned Strasbourg pates and a pack of envelopes from Paul Robeson records for some of the light bulbs and the remains of knives. The bookseller assured the foreman that Robeson was a national hero and, in addition, a communist.

              In short, the sergeant major received one outfit out of turn and gratitude. As an outfit, he organized the production of sawhorses for logs. This was not humanism towards the cadets, but a reluctance to dirty propaganda material on the ground.

              And three days later, a high commission appeared. When the general saw the pictures on logs and wooden tanks, he became a little confused, but the Baron reported to the distinguished guest that due to the illiteracy of the personnel (what can you do, the damned legacy of the colonial regime), we are forced to teach the cadets using visual material. The general approved and ordered to demonstrate the level of knowledge of the personnel. Akim’s platoon was just briskly dragging a log past. At the Baron’s signal, the log was placed on the trestle and a specially selected volunteer marched towards the general. Pointing at the portraits with a stylized pointer, he rattled off that Engels was the Great Marxist, Angela Davis was the great American Marxist, Paul Robeson was the great Marxist folk singer, and Marx was simply a Marxist.

              Then some bastard behind him began to cough and the Baron showed his fist behind his back, hinting that he would break everyone off and the coughing immediately stopped.
              1. +2
                22 January 2013 12: 13
                The general again approved and asked how Paul Robeson got into the great Marxists, to which Akim, making the devotedly strained face of a mongrel suffering from constipation, reported in a low voice that the national question is still strong here and we are guided by the work of Comrade Lenin "Critical Notes on national question" (PSS, 5th ed., vol. 24), decided to add to the educational materials such a famous friend of the Soviet Union as the proletarian singer of black nationality Paul Robeson.

                Then the general asked why the tankers had logs and why no portraits of Vladimir Ilyich Lenin were visible, to which the Baron replied that it was too early for them to touch the saint. And Akim, who climbed in as always, added that let them drag the logs, and then we will tell them what a log is, and Ilyich himself easily dragged it, and then the African comrades will finally be imbued with the benefits of socialism.





                The general nodded very favorably and even became somewhat excited at the sight of such unplowed virgin land, in the sense of an unplowed field of propaganda, and quickly ordered the gathering of personnel, to whom he would personally give a lecture on the famous Lenin subbotnik.

                Cockroach translated and for some reason he translated every colorful ideological phrase very briefly, if not conditionally. But judging by his satisfied face and the included voice recorder, this general, or his superiors, had once messed up the Cockroach office and now retribution was just around the corner.

                The cadets then asked the platoon commanders why Lenin carried logs, but Angela Davis and Marx did not, to which they received absolutely ideologically and even aesthetically inconsistent answers.

                And then the tanks finally arrived and with them the staff of the training center. By the way, our shift workers were joyfully surprised at how well our cadets understood standard Russian orders and how quickly upon orders, “the crews ***** on the cars ** your mother,” the cadets dived into wooden models in a matter of seconds.

                The new management approved our idea with logs, but asked us to cancel it ourselves. The Baron read a fiery speech to the cadets, where he honored them with the title of armored eagles of the revolution and declaring that they physically now fully correspond to the rank of tanker and logs are no longer needed. And our former students sang to us in broken but recognizable Russian the song “The Armor is Strong.” That's how we parted.

                A few months later, we learned that the armored detachment we trained, while on a raid behind enemy lines, when meeting with a column of timber trucks carrying logs, shot them into rubbish from the tower guns (the guys hit exclusively at logs, so not a single one drove Suffered).

                After all, Pavlov and his faithful dog were great scientists

                across the expanses of the RuNet. since everyone is in a good mood.
                1. +1
                  22 January 2013 12: 30
                  Sparrow. Cool good . What kind of work is this?
                  1. +4
                    22 January 2013 12: 32
                    Quote: Mechanic
                    What kind of work is this?


                    I'll eat Zheka a second time. but I have no idea who the author is.
                    1. +3
                      22 January 2013 14: 35
                      True romance exists only in tank troops. The well-fed growl of tank diesels a few minutes before dawn. The tanks are filled to capacity, the ammunition racks are full, the belts are tucked into the course and coaxial machine guns, and the commander sets up his favorite DShK on the turret, looking on the horizon for the impudent Alouette fly, which 12,7 can easily be removed per kilometer. And the confidence that there, behind the distant hills, awaits a white city, immersed in greenery, where girls, flowers and beer are waiting for tired tank crews. And we just need to pass through this plateau, dotted with the charred skeletons of Elephants and Saracens, and we will pass, as we have passed more than once. And let there be burning ruins again instead of the white city, UNITA snipers instead of girls, and the rationed rum of Raoul’s panzergrenadiers instead of beer, but still, we won again. The armor is strong and our tanks are fast!


                      Vladimir Chekmarev "Anabasis against the backdrop of Northern Angola"

                      http://artofwar.ru/c/chekmarew_w_a/text_angola.shtml
                    2. +1
                      22 January 2013 14: 52
                      Wow...on topic.
                      The most worthwhile thing I took away from the entire rating was...
                      ..
                      vorobey....maybe it would be better if you...."ratings"... start writing, huh?
                      1. +3
                        22 January 2013 15: 29
                        Quote: Igarr
                        maybe it would be better if you..... "ratings"... start writing, and



                        Hello, Igor.

                        I can't. I am not completely adequate.

                        Remember I said that I consider Rommel one of my teachers?

                        So, if you write a tank rating of those years, it turns out that during the capture of El Mekili, Rommel’s field kitchen was 100 times superior in combat effectiveness to the English Valentine or Cromwell.
                      2. 0
                        22 January 2013 16: 34
                        Well, consider it already started.
                        Yes, this is such a topic...promising. Devour.
                        ..
                        We know from the stories that the Germans abandoned the war...for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
                        This means they ate well. And how exactly?
                        Riddle.
                        ...
                        Yes, chicken noodles on triplexes....any ASILIT tank.
                      3. +2
                        22 January 2013 16: 54
                        Quote: Igarr
                        Yes, chicken noodles on triplexes....any ASILIT tank.


                        Yes. I can imagine the chefs’ feelings when they were placed in battle formations in their kitchens, but even more I can imagine the faces of the British when they realized that they were being attacked, including their kitchens.
  54. Nechai
    0
    22 January 2013 11: 50
    Hello, Alexander! Aftyr thinks “A tank as a combat unit in itself is ineffective on the battlefield” was clearly plagiarized from the “indisputable strategist and greatest commander of all times” Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev. In fact, it was for the hidden implementation of this DEZ that this opprobrium was created...
    Quote: Akim
    When they switched to Western tactics, Soviet tanks were losers. They were not suitable for it

    Or maybe it's the other way around. The range of combat capabilities of weapons determines the methods and algorithms for their use. Compare the OSHS of the Bundeswehr and SA TB, and then the tactical standards for them. It is clear that the tactical standards of the Bundes for the 31st SA tank will be NONSENSE. The example you gave only shows the degree of thoughtless monkey-whack of arrogant lords.
    1. Akim
      0
      22 January 2013 14: 18
      Quote: Nechai
      Or maybe it's the other way around

      I can’t explain why. Correct me if it’s wrong. Let’s take a hypothetical scenario) of a clash of equal forces between a tank battalion of a mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and a tank battalion of the 9th Armored Cavalry Brigade of the Polish Army. 40/41 tanks are an equal number. We have T-64BV, they have T-72M1. Now I’ll explain why Western tactics are not suitable for such machines on their part. We and they are advancing on different fronts (5/4) km. Their tanks are deployed in battle formation at a distance of 3 km; ours are at a distance of 2 km. In fact, before this only platoon columns are visible.
      If these were Leopards, they are more maneuverable, and the T-72M1 is slower in the offensive and does not have TURs. He is helpless at a distance of 3 km in front of “Soviet” tanks, i.e. before the brothers in the Warsaw Pact. In addition, after deployment into battle formations, barrage artillery fire ceases. T-72M1 and PT-91 are practically naked and can only rely on our dummies.
  55. -1
    22 January 2013 11: 58
    Somehow this article quickly spread throughout the RuNet, even spreading to entertainment sites like YAP and others like it...
  56. +4
    22 January 2013 12: 00
    The fact that the compilers of the rating used the game “Tanks” is beyond doubt. But let's not forget that the tank building school in Kharkov is one of the leading in the world. There are still smart guys in the design bureau. The number of Oplot tanks produced is only a few. When compiling a rating, the main criterion should be: the practical participation of military equipment in battles. There is no criterion for maintainability or crew survival. At the end of the 80s I had a conversation with an engineer of the Leningrad Tank Plant (I don’t know its correct name), he said a phrase that struck me. “We continue to make the T 34. The crew has a skiff and a whole tank. Whether in Russia or in Ukraine, the crew doesn’t matter. They will teach new ones.”
  57. +2
    22 January 2013 12: 10
    ... Bullshit... Why don’t we take reliability into account? Need for reconciliation after the march? And why is it so close, a game of chapping with tanks.. Author, don’t show THIS to anyone else..
  58. evil hamster
    +1
    22 January 2013 12: 12
    Yep, I laughed heartily. This is like Chinese mega ratings on YouTube. Well, where all sorts of Chinese products invariably end up among the first, despite their wretchedness. In general: the methodology is not described, the penetration capabilities of BOPS are taken from the air, what levels of security the author took for the calculation (well, that’s if they pretend to be naive and assume that the author actually thought something) is not clear. And here is this phrase: "The T-90MS Tagil demonstrator tank (concept tank) is another improved modernization of the most modern obsolete serial Russian main battle tank T-90A model 2006." puts everything in its place. So is it morally outdated or the most modern? laughing And of course: "The computational modeling carried out practically showed that the BM Oplot tank at the moment among all representatives of the tank world has the most modern armor protection, which, in combination with the built-in dynamic protection of the new generation “Duplet”, gives the tank incredible security by today's standards."It's just a joke laughing That is, the modernization of the T80UD with a welded turret, which is like two peas in a pod similar to the T90A welded turret (which is not surprising since both of them are the fruit of research and development conducted at the Steel Research Institute back in the Soviet Union), with the same VLD - incredibly protected and exactly the same design on the T90MS morally outdated. As they say know comments. Advertising is such an advertisement...
  59. xzWhiteWolf
    +2
    22 January 2013 12: 19
    Simulation of battles... Apparently it was made with toys. At the same time, “Oplot”, which is also just another modification (by the way, the chassis is ours, the filling is 10% ours and 70% Western, but there is something to be proud of).. It was made of metal, and other toys were made of plastic.. After being hit by steel The plastic bullets cracked, but a stronghold is a stronghold. Withstood bullet hits.
    The funniest rating. Especially in the fact that the new T-90MS in the EXPORT version is already superior or not inferior to ALL of its competitors.
    Will the Stronghold be better than all promising tanks? Oh, this Ukraine with its intelligence... Our people have not yet been shown a finished copy of the Armata, but they already know everything about it!
    Well done, what can I say. Let's do better like the Americans.. Compare the Abrams with the bad T-55, created in the 57-8s for other warriors.. But the Americans also liked to say that the tank was amazed by our Abrams with a bang and compared how behind it was..
  60. DERWISH
    +1
    22 January 2013 12: 34
    some nonsense
  61. rugby1997
    +2
    22 January 2013 12: 40
    We can only congratulate our neighbors and brothers Ukrainians!!:))
  62. Skavron
    +2
    22 January 2013 12: 54
    Even though I live in Ukraine and should be sort of proud...the article is simply a huge MINUS!!! The site "ALTERNATIVE" history speaks for itself.
  63. +3
    22 January 2013 13: 13
    The time will come when Tagil and Oplot will fight side by side. The time will come when we will be reunited again. And then neither Merkavas, nor Abrams with Leclercs and Leopards will be able to resist the power of Russian tanks. And the rating is provocative, of course. It is immediately clear that one of the goals is simply to quarrel the people living in Rus'. The principle of divide and conquer works. Let's not be fooled by provocations
  64. Gogan
    0
    22 January 2013 13: 17
    I'm afraid there won't be many tank battles in future wars.
  65. +1
    22 January 2013 13: 24
    Everything is in order with our information war. Judging by this informational stuffing, they will not learn in any way. There is nothing to comment on here. If the author wanted to show something, then drawing conclusions from a computer game for the rating of real MBTs is more than doubtful. If the goal was PR, then first learn from Americans. Look at their comments on Abrams’s participation in wars, you’d think that three tanks would be enough for Russia. When you start to figure it out, it’s bullshit. But they all unanimously praise it, because it’s Their tank.
  66. bach2007
    -6
    22 January 2013 14: 14
    And I like the result! I carefully compared the performance characteristics of almost all the tanks presented before, and OPLOT was better in almost all respects. And there is no need to get hysterical, the tank is really cool, and at least not inferior to the Leopard. You just need to become better acquainted with the new developments of Ukrainian companies in this direction. Just use objective sources, otherwise from the outside you can clearly see the zombie propaganda of Russian TV, even when communicating with Russians personally, you can immediately see the source of the formation of their views. Don’t be offended, gentlemen, but you’ve been living without objective information for the last 10 years. And the fact that we got a good car is cool. Go Ukraine!!! And don’t worry, you will be normal people and politicians (Russian), we will be friends, but for now, rely more on gas, your only weapon (the last for the leadership of the Russian Federation). Good luck to all!
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 21: 22
      I don’t care about the result, but I support you in the fact that our “hurray-patriots” and not only do not recognize anything other than “Russian tanks are the best.” They cannot even recognize “our former” - that is, Ukrainian - as something worthy - like children, by God...
    2. 0
      15 August 2021 13: 23
      Well, how do you like your own comment from 2013 now, in 2021? After Donbass and Syria, after unprecedented T-90 export contracts and a long disruption in the supply of 50 Oplot tanks to Thailand?

      Time has shown that you had a biased view, blurred by Ukrainian propaganda, and not your Russian opponents.
  67. 0
    22 January 2013 14: 20
    I didn’t know that our tanks were bullshit from forty years ago, but well done, they somehow treated the Merkava wrong, probably the rating was invented by “hakhol” and not “yavrei”, and our armature is being hammered, well, it’s just extraterrestrial technology from the “aplot”.. . am
  68. bach2007
    -5
    22 January 2013 14: 26
    And further. Kharkov Design Bureau was, is, and will be the best! starting from T 34 and T 64, etc. And all your T 90s and them are also simplified versions of Kharkov tanks (read the history of Soviet tank building). Here we have a new tank (not to mention the good modernization of the T 64 to Bulat) and the BTR 4 with its modifications, etc.
    Is there something to show you, gentlemen???

    and normal comments are deleted from this site
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 14: 44
      Quote: bach2007
      Here we have a new tank (not to mention the good modernization of the T 64 to Bulat) and the BTR 4 with its modifications, etc.
      Is there something to show you, gentlemen???

      Similar to: and here in Kuban we have these fellow watermelons are growing, or my pussy is longer fellow that's it.....what's new????? everything you
      bach2007 UA listed this as just a modernization, everything is on the old platform, somewhere the armor was increased, new electronics were shoved in and the engine was stuffed with more power good bravo guys than you
      bach2007 UA show off. I can also throw my hat in like this, for example, we have an armored personnel carrier-90, it really didn’t join the army, apparently it is too strong and is ahead of the current time.....or we have an armored personnel carrier-82, but how did they eat it?
      bach2007 UA???? for dessert, our T-90MS should have been renamed T-100 or T-11(12) according to your method laughing and your battle with modulating .... but I forgot about the armature .... but according to you, we don’t have anything new
      bach2007
      1. -3
        22 January 2013 14: 50
        Quote: evgenii67
        T-90MS should have been renamed T-100 or T-11 (12

        Basically whatever you want.
        But to be precise, according to our method, BM Oplot without adding a numerical index.

        And the funny thing is, if I put the T-90MS in first place for fun, the exclamations were the opposite. Maybe in a month I’ll conduct an experiment just for fun.
        1. 0
          22 January 2013 15: 04
          Quote: Kars
          Basically whatever you want.
          But to be precise, according to our method, BM Oplot without adding a numerical index.
          but according to you, this is the stronghold of a new tank
          Quote: bach2007
          Is there something to show you, gentlemen???
          Yes, if the conversation has started, it exists not only in armored vehicles, but also in aviation and the navy. Why did you boast so much that you can show it to you: the BTR-4 is a kind of BTR-80, they added armor, cut out the armored casings, made the engine more powerful and changed the turret and voila, a new car, brilliant! Stronghold - a certain T-80, they added armor, didn’t cut out the armored windows, installed a more powerful engine and changed the turret and wow, a new car, brilliant!
          1. 0
            22 January 2013 15: 13
            Quote: evgenii67
            but according to you, this is the stronghold of a new tank

            In principle, the BM Oplot can already be called a new tank. And nothing can be done without the BASICS. This was the case with the Abrams, Challenger 1/2 Merkava.
            The only Leclerc is probably built completely new.
            Quote: evgenii67
            Stronghold - a certain T-80, they added armor, didn’t cut out the armored windows, installed a more powerful engine and changed the turret and wow, a new car, brilliant!

            And the funny thing is that it is so. This time there is no EBN in the Russian Federation and you are playing it safe. Tagil can be called the new tank. It’s a pity that the fate of the Vickers Mk7 is destined for it
            1. 0
              22 January 2013 15: 52
              Quote: Kars
              Tagil can be called the new tank. It’s a pity that the fate of the Vickers Mk7 is destined for it
              don’t rush to bury the T-90MS, time will tell
              1. 0
                22 January 2013 15: 58
                Quote: evgenii67
                time will tell

                It will show. But still the fate of a tank that is not needed by its own army ((((((

                So I can assume Kazakhstan, Syria, Venezuela (on credit, of course)
                India is already unlikely.
                1. 0
                  22 January 2013 16: 17
                  It will show. But still the fate of a tank that is not needed by its own army ((((((
                  Even I don’t remember MBT with the letter C for service with the SA and the Russian Federation? tongue
              2. 0
                15 August 2021 13: 29
                Time (now 2021) has shown the T-90 to be an excellent tank, this has been shown by the war in Syria, export volumes are greater than all other tanks combined, and the Russian Ministry of Defense still orders the T-90 from industry.
    2. evil hamster
      0
      22 January 2013 14: 59
      Mister Tarasenko log in already laughing
      1. 0
        22 January 2013 15: 07
        Quote: evil hamster
        Mister Tarasenko log in already

        Thank you for the compliment, but I’m not Tarasenko (by the way, if you weren’t so angry and in the know, you could remember that I refute Tarasenko’s conclusions based on Rastoropshin on the effectiveness of Contact and Contact 5)

        By the way, Gurchik has an account here --- how did you like how he considered Gamer’s memories to be reality? In the article How do the Yankees see Soviet tanks?


        And the Stronghold is already in the form of a background image on the website of the Royal Thai Armed Forces.
        1. evil hamster
          -1
          22 January 2013 15: 38
          Welcome.
          Well, my post was actually not for you, but for Mr. bach2007 feel
          Quote: Kars
          Thanks for the compliment
          Can't wait laughing laughing tongue
          Quote: Kars
          By the way, if only you were not so angry and on topic
          “woe to me Ivan Vasilyevich” (c) I can’t help it :)
          Quote: Kars
          By the way, Gurchik has an account here
          Frankly, I don’t want to touch seriously on these gentlemen, I saw the whole story of their hot love almost from its beginning, probably since 2005, and since then they both have slipped into a sad city... but IMHO
          1. 0
            22 January 2013 15: 52
            Quote: evil hamster
            Well, my post was actually not for you, but for Mr. bach2007

            Ring, I’ve identified myself.
        2. 0
          23 January 2013 00: 17
          Quote: Kars
          How did you like how he considered Gamer’s memories to be reality? In the article How do the Yankees see Soviet tanks?

          On this topic http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2013/01/blog-post_22.html#comment-form
          1. 0
            23 January 2013 00: 25
            Quote: Bad_gr
            On this topic http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2013/01/blog-post_22.html#comment-form

            I saw banality. And I already wrote about remote sensing.

            But still I had to admit that I didn’t watch it all the way through))))

            I like the way he puffs and puffs about spare parts for the 72EK))) I’m already worried about his nervous system.
  69. satellite
    0
    22 January 2013 14: 37
    The most objective rating I have ever seen.))) Thank you!!!! You opened my eyes, but I thought that Discovery was telling the truth!! Merkava, T90ms and Abrams should have been in first place, I don’t see the rest being used in wars
  70. Nechai
    0
    22 January 2013 14: 52
    Quote: Akim
    why Western tactics are not suitable for such machines on their part. We and they are advancing on different fronts (5/4) km. Their tanks are deployed in battle formation at a distance of 3 km; ours are at a distance of 2 km. In fact, before this only platoon columns are visible. In addition, after deployment into battle formations, barrage artillery fire ceases

    Kim, you and I are saying the SAME thing. And the conclusions are the same. But I don’t understand what you object to me about, ring.
    Two points:
    - “In fact, before this, only platoon columns were visible” - who could see that? The one who conducts ARTILLER fire has the whole picture, as a rule, from the battalion column - to the company - platoon - b / line and then observes perfectly. Otherwise the fire would not have been possible.
    - “Besides, after deployment into battle formations, the barrage of artillery fire stops” - I understand that this is how it is now accepted in NATE? Why is it so? There are 2-3 km between the opponents, I don’t want to shoot with whatever I want! At least hit me with a neutron bonboy! Screw it... Terrible shitty officers of batteries and divisions, worthless gunners of artillery systems, computers that have eaten viruses. Then, Oh! Everything is clear... Poor fellows.
    1. Akim
      0
      22 January 2013 15: 20
      Valery, I’m telling you that the type of our tanks is not applicable in combination with Leopards. I sometimes communicate with Polish officers, not command staff, but with peers who were still learning how to use the PT-91 and T-72 in battle, and when they joined NATO switched to Leopards, or even younger interlocutors, i.e. they already know the Polish army only as a member of NATO. Many people complain. that Leopard and T-series tanks cannot interact with each other and the latter lose.
      And about artillery fire - that’s how they played on maps, where everything was almost perfect (it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines).
  71. +1
    22 January 2013 15: 10
    GREETINGS TO ALL, BULLSHIT, NOT RATINGS OR WHATEVER. IN MY CHARACTERISTICS, ALL THE TANKS LISTED ARE SIMILAR. EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON THE CREW OF THE TANK. I READ SOMEWHERE THAT AT THE FRONT, A DUEL BREAKED UP BETWEEN THE T-34/76 AND THE PANTHER. THE CREWS OF BOTH TANKS HAD COMBAT EXPERIENCE. AND STILL, THE T-34/76 CREW HAD MORE EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE, REACTION, COURAGE AND DECISION, AND THEY WON THIS DUEL.
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 15: 16
      Yes at certain Under circumstances, the T-34-85 can also attack Abroms. It’s clear that a lot depends on the crew, but in a modern war, reconnaissance will play an important role in tank battles, to the extent that the crew will be provided with information and air support.....
    2. +2
      22 January 2013 16: 11
      Quote: Bekzat
      I READ SOMEWHERE THAT AT THE FRONT, A DUEL BREAKED UP BETWEEN THE T-34/76 AND THE PANTHER.

      You always need to be precise in the nuances, I myself have read about this more than once, but eyewitnesses/participants in these events always emphasized the point that the T34 won THE BATTLE . (The losers obviously left no memories.) It was a battle, not a duel! The duel of 34 will kill the Panther at once! You don’t need to be a genius to understand this, let alone with a 76mm gun.
      A duel (fr. duel < lat. duellum - “duel”, “fight of two”) is a duel strictly regulated by the so-called dueling code between two ... in compliance with the most fair and equal conditions of the battle.
      1. +1
        22 January 2013 17: 36
        FOR THE CYNNIK, VLADIMIR, I AM SENDING YOU A LINK TO THE SITE, PLEASE READ http://otvaga2004.ru/tanki/v-boyah/rycarskaya-duel/
        1. +2
          22 January 2013 19: 08
          Quote: Bekzat
          PLEASE READ

          No problem .
          And, I found it Bekzat just a confirmation of your opinion.
          It was a deliberately unequal battle and only our skill helped them win.
          I repeat the main thing in a duel is a clash in compliance with the most fair and equal conditions of the battle.
          And here . Having a long-barreled 88mm cannon and armor of about 80mm, we challenge an enemy with a short-barreled 76mm and armor of about 50mm to a duel.
          What the fuck is this... duel!!!
          drinks
          1. 0
            22 January 2013 21: 51
            Quote: Cynic
            Only our skill helped them win.
            I will apologize for the amateurish point of view, but our skill did not help them win, what helped them was the number of tanks produced and the willingness to die for the sake of victory (I don’t pretend to be accurate, but the tank score is conditionally 1/10 not in our favor) - for patriots: this does not in any way detract from the significance of our victory, etc. and so on.
            But there’s no duel - even if you take into account that 88 mm versus 85 mm (it seems like there’s only a 3 mm difference, but the result is striking), and the armor (for memory, Kars will correct) is more likely 100 mm versus 44 mm.
            1. 0
              22 January 2013 22: 07
              Quote: alex86
              I will apologize for the amateurish point of view

              At least carefully re-read the information presented in the posts.
              It’s just somehow inconvenient, or are you really not aware that the 34 was produced with different guns and turrets?
              And that we weren’t the first to install anti-aircraft guns on a tank?
              Have at least basic respect for others!
              Quote: alex86
              but the tank score is conditionally 1/10

              Why not 1 in 15? 20 . ... 100 ?
              Looks like official 1 to 3, to 4
              1. +1
                22 January 2013 23: 10
                Quote: Cynic
                Looks like official 1 to 3, to 4

                If you take all the armor of the Krauts - about 95 (this plus unaccounted for trophies that were not used centrally) and take our 000. At the same time, as of May 130, we had about 000 left, and the Krauts had 1945 left.
                Plus to mention that the Fritz’s repair and evacuation units worked better, and on average each tank was able to be brought into battle up to 6 times, against our 4, then the ratio is CONDITIONALLY in our favor (here, however, I do not take into account the contribution of the Allies in Normandy and Africa)
                1. postman
                  +1
                  23 January 2013 01: 27
                  Quote: Kars
                  At the same time, as of May 1945, we had about 35 left, and the Krauts had 000 left.

                  In my opinion, you think wrong.
                  I will explain:
                  If on their side there were 100, and on our side (the allies and we) there were 200 (or 300). Then 200 (300) tanks hammered 100.
                  And as a result, let’s say 50 were destroyed on both sides.
                  That's not in
                  Quote: Kars
                  In our favor
                  there will be a ratio.
                  Especially in 1945. When the ratio during “slotting” was completely different.
                  M.B. better produced by us/them. Destroyed from us from them. We/they have the rest.
                  And then there will be more or less clear results
                  1. 0
                    23 January 2013 01: 48
                    Quote: Postman
                    I will explain:
                    If on their side there were 100, and on our side (the allies and we) there were 200 (or 300). Then 200 (300) tanks hammered 100.

                    Most of the tanks that the Yankees riveted did not see the fields of Western Europe and Africa.
                    Quote: Postman
                    M.B. better produced by us/them. Destroyed from us from them. We/they have the rest.

                    Well, in principle, that’s what I did. But then we are still leaders 95 versus 112, we have 35 thousand left.
                    But here is Lend-Lease, and landing in Western Europe, Italy and Africa.
                    Quote: Postman
                    And as a result, let’s say 50 were destroyed on both sides

                    But it won’t work out that way. In 1941, we were protected at a disadvantage by all the tanks remaining in the occupied territory, both broken, and not leaving the parks, etc. And since Germany unconditionally capitulated. It lost EVERYTHING. So the Germans will have a remainder basically cannot.

                    Quote: Postman
                    And then there will be more or less clear results

                    And this is almost impossible to determine. There are only final results.
                    But the ratio will still be in our favor, and not as some write.
                    Quote: alex86
                    (I don’t pretend to be accurate, but the tank score is conditionally 1/10 not in our favor
                    1. postman
                      +2
                      23 January 2013 02: 24
                      Quote: Kars
                      .Then EVERYTHING is lost. So in principle the Germans cannot have anything left.

                      and without them (surrender and occupied)?
                      Just interesting with TECHNICAL TK

                      Quote: Kars
                      Quote: alex86: I don’t pretend to be accurate, but the tank score is conditionally 1/10 not in our favor

                      To this you need to say:

                      Something like this:

                      / I’m afraid this calculation won’t work for the smelting of cast iron / steel....
                      1. -2
                        23 January 2013 04: 00
                        Quote: Postman
                        without them (surrender and occupied)?

                        Then ours in 1941 must be subtracted.
                        The signs were mixed up - there are lower ones at the end of April. The remainder, but at that time almost all of them were in boilers, without fuel and spare parts. So who knows.

                        And taking into account repairs, etc.
                        there is a joke about the Finnish War -
                        In fact, such a state of the rear in a “serious” war doomed the supplied units to destruction. However, even in the “frivolous” Finnish war, on the Karelian Isthmus alone, Soviet tank crews lost 1903 tanks for combat reasons and 1275 for technical reasons, which, as is easy to calculate, amounts to a total of 3178 tanks. A little less than what Hitler had before Barbarossa.

                        Stop, stop, stop. Where did they even come from, these more than three thousand tanks? No, it is clear that during the war reinforcements arrived on the isthmus, but not as much! The average number of tank troops of the Red Army on the Karelian Isthmus was approximately one and a half thousand combat vehicles. With such losses to the Red Army, it is not enough to simply lose all its tanks in battles on the Mannerheim Line - in order for the score to settle, this operation had to be done twice. What if we add those remaining in units by the time the conflict ends? Oh, then the equation will completely, completely cease to converge
                        In fact, the answer to this riddle is simple - after all, it is big and it is quite difficult not to notice it. “And from the platform they say - this is the city of Leningrad,” as the famous children's poet wrote. It was the proximity to the battlefield of one of the largest Soviet transport and industrial centers, whose factories produced and repaired T-26 and T-28, that allowed Soviet tankers to maintain the combat effectiveness of their units. Only 857 tanks were sent directly to the factories for repair. In addition, in December 39, two armored vehicle repair bases were deployed in Peterhof and Pushkin. In January 1940, the repair and restoration battalions of the tank brigades were reinforced by special brigades of workers from the Leningrad tank factories (Kirov and No. 174 named after Voroshilov).

                        For greater clarity, let's go down one level. For example, the main vehicle of the 20th Heavy Tank Brigade was the T-28 heavy tank. By the beginning of the war, the brigade had 105 such vehicles and another 67 were received from the factory during the fighting. At the same time, losses from artillery fire amounted to 155 tanks, another 77 added mines and land mines, 30 were burned, 21 tanks were listed as drowned and 2 were missing. Add to these figures 197 tanks of technical losses and we get an impressive number of 482 tanks. But at the same time, irretrievable losses amounted to only 32 vehicles. 371 tanks were repaired during the war, which allowed the brigade to maintain combat effectiveness throughout the conflict[264]. In conditions of a stationary - or moving in favor of the Red Army - front, even in conditions of a shortage of tractors, damaged or broken down vehicles could be gradually pulled out and sent for repairs
                2. vitya29111973
                  -1
                  23 January 2013 02: 12
                  Especially, considering that most of the German tanks are lightly armored and armed with machine guns and small-caliber artillery, then we are finally “heroes”!!! And where did 95000 units come from!!! Probably from the fairy tales of the first edition of the History of the Second World War. Or from the memoirs of Rotmistrov and Rybalko, so they are finally heroes. Reading “their memoirs”, only the third and fifth tank armies “completely destroyed” the tigers - 1.8 - 2.1 times more than the German industry produced them, the self-propelled gun "Ferdinand" - (shocking figure) seventeen times!!! more than were released!!!!!!
                  1. postman
                    0
                    23 January 2013 02: 38
                    Quote: vitya29111973
                    And where did 95000 units come from!!! Probably from fairy tales


                    It's probably like this somewhere:
                    Blue colour - presence of tanks.
                    Red - losses
                    Yellow - production.



                    Fl - flamethrower tanks
                    Bf.W - command tanks
                    Bg.Pz - repair and recovery tanks
                    StG III/IV - assault guns
                    St H - assault howitzers
                    StPz - assault tanks
                    Pak (sfl) - anti-tank guns on a self-propelled carriage
                    JgPz - tank destroyers
                    Flak.Pz anti-aircraft tanks

                    Müller-Hillebrand "German Land Army. 1933-1945"
                    1. vitya29111973
                      -2
                      23 January 2013 16: 03
                      And you are there too!!! http://ww2tanks.ru/
                      1. -2
                        23 January 2013 16: 15
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        http://ww2tanks.ru

                        weakly.
                      2. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        23 January 2013 18: 09
                        perfect fit for your number!!!
                      3. 0
                        23 January 2013 18: 17
                        No, this is about you personally.
                  2. -2
                    23 January 2013 03: 51
                    Quote: vitya29111973
                    publications "History of the Second World War". Or from the memoirs of Rotmistrov and Rybalko

                    The most interesting thing is that there is no panzerphilic site.

                    Production of tanks, tank destroyers, assault guns and self-propelled guns in 1934-1945 years.

                    * The total result of the actual German production (or by orders of Germany) - 75.513 units of armored vehicles.
                    * In addition, a large number of command tanks (without cannon armaments), mobile artillery fire adjustment posts, repair and recovery vehicles and other equipment were produced. With their account, the total number of armored vehicles made up 89.266 units.
                    * To them should be added the captured equipment received by the Wehrmacht - total 1.577 vehicles.
                    *Thus, the German armed forces received and used 90.843 units of armored vehicles during the Second World War

                    http://www.achtungpanzer.eu/

                    Only there were significantly more trophies
                    Quote: vitya29111973
                    Reading “their memoirs”, only the third and fifth tank armies “completely destroyed” tigers - 1.8 - 2.1 times more than the German industry produced them

                    Do you have no faith in the German repair and recovery service? On average, the tank was restored up to 6 times. And the tiger was even more.
                    Quote: vitya29111973
                    Self-propelled gun "Ferdinand" - (shocking figure) seventeen times!!!

                    Did you personally think so? And yet, almost all tank destroyers were called Fedey. The Ferdinad 75 mm self-propelled gun was Stug, etc.
                    1. vitya29111973
                      -1
                      23 January 2013 16: 00
                      Sorry, but you are distorting the facts; your data, to put it mildly, is not true!!!
                      1. You indicated the number of “armored vehicles” produced in Germany from 1934 to 1945.
                      2. The number of Soviet “tanks” produced is indicated for the period from the beginning of hostilities with Germany!!!
                      3. There is no need to assign armored passenger cars to tanks!!!!
                      And here is the primary source for your tales about Vasily Terkin. Next time you can at least read the original source!!! http://ww2tanks.ru/
                      1. -1
                        23 January 2013 16: 13
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Sorry, but you are distorting the facts; your data, to put it mildly, is not true!!!

                        Naturally, only YOUR numbers are true.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        1. You indicated the number of “armored vehicles” produced in Germany from 1934 to 1945.

                        What was not necessary?
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        2. The number of Soviet “tanks” produced is indicated for the period from the beginning of hostilities with Germany!!!

                        What joy is this?
                        * In total, 112.472 tanks and self-propelled guns were produced in the Soviet Union.
                        Same thing completely.


                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        3. There is no need to assign armored passenger cars to tanks!!!!

                        What do you mean, it’s really not necessary))))))) this is the problem of the Germans that they did something else besides tanks.
                      2. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        23 January 2013 16: 26
                        Well, of course, compare the IS 2 with a three-ton reconnaissance vehicle or a toy radio-controlled tank (demolition vehicle). You created the numbers, and the late Nazis are to blame. You're doing well!!!
                      3. +1
                        23 January 2013 16: 37
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        You created the numbers, and the late Nazis are to blame

                        And who else besides them?
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        compare the IS 2 with a three-ton reconnaissance vehicle or a toy radio-controlled tank (demolition vehicle).

                        No, of course everything is compared to the IS-2, but we didn’t have the T-38 T-40))))))
                        And it’s not a fact yet who is more useful than the armored artillery observer of the Krauts, or the heels of the T-60.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        You're doing well!!!

                        Take care of your nerves, broken elusions are sometimes hard to bear.
                      4. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        23 January 2013 17: 20
                        Yes there were some!!! They stopped producing the T-38 in 40 and the T-1 in 2, and there were less than two thousand of them taken together, out of twenty-three thousand at the beginning of the Second World War. When both the same type German Type XNUMX and Type XNUMX made up almost half of the German tank fleet. I am silent about the quantity, the figures are not comparable.
                      5. 0
                        23 January 2013 17: 59
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        I’m silent about the quantity, the numbers are not comparable

                        Most likely it is better for you to remain silent AT ALL.))))))))
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        When both the same type German Type 1 and Type 2 made up almost half of the German tank fleet

                        There are clear numbers, and don’t forget that even earlier they defeated the French and the English))) then the ratio was even more))))

                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        out of twenty three thousand,

                        Why are you embarrassed? There were more than 25 of them))))))

                        Could you please tell me where the Fritz have these svelyaks?
                      6. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        23 January 2013 22: 40
                        I would have remained silent, but I was tired of the Soviet noodles on my ears as a child. He carries Soviet propaganda a mile away.
                      7. 0
                        23 January 2013 22: 49
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        I would remain silent, but

                        no but - keep quiet. After all the SS tank divisions on the western front, this is all that remains.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Soviet agitprom carries a mile away

                        This is a conditioned reflex for you. It’s a pity that you didn’t express something sensible from the Western agitprom. Instead, you voiced pure banality.
                      8. 0
                        23 January 2013 23: 09
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        And the most important thing!!! The Germans had a second front where all the SS tank divisions were located.

                        ))))))))))))
                        malicious Soviet propaganda on German Wiki
                        Third SS-Panzer-Division Totenkopf [Edit]
                        Panzer V from the SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf" in Siedlce (25 to 29 July 1944) In October 1943, the unit was in the numbering of SS divisions in the third SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf" renamed. In the winter of 1943-1944, the Division defended the front line in Krivoy Rog. She retired in the spring of 1944, and Kishinev Pervomaisk back to Romania, where she remained on the 7th to July 1944. [14]

                        In mid-July 1944, the Division in strengthening the center of the army group in the room Bialystok moved and fought at the end of July in the city of Siedlce in the attack of the 47th Soviet Army (→ Operation Bagration). [15] At the same time she was with the XNUMXth SS Panzer Division "Wiking" of the Fourth SS Panzer Corps, assigned to the XNUMXth Army. She took part in the battle tanks in Radzymin and the defense of the German defensive line between the Bug and the Vistula. During the Warsaw Uprising, it was used to provide a front line to the Polish capital and did not participate in the brutal suppression of the uprising.

                        In September 1944, the department provided approximately 5000 replacement soldiers. This reinforcement consisted of naval artillery and 4316 air force members.

                        By the end of 1944 the department had defended the front part up to the Modlin fortress. On 24 December 1944 the third SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf" was removed from the front of Warsaw and transported to Hungary. There they occupied the 6th Army in the battles of the Budapest operation and in the spring of 1945 at Lake Balaton offensive units and retired in April 1945 to Vienna (→ Vienna operation). At the beginning of May 1945 led to a split in the US troops in Linz. These were members of the Totenkopf department, the guards of the Mauthausen concentration camp to disarm. Members of the division were then transferred to the Red Army. [16]


                        Thrown out of the battlefield...Death's Head...how they defended Normandy and fought in the Ardennes))))
                      9. vitya29111973
                        -2
                        24 January 2013 00: 09
                        2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" In February 1944, the division was sent to France for restoration. From June 1944, the 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" fought in Normandy; at the end of August and in September it retreated to Ruzan, Saint-Vith and then to the German border. In December 1944 and January 1945, it took part in the Ardennes offensive. In February 1945, the 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" was transferred to Hungary.
                        12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend" In June-July 1944, the division took part in heavy fighting in Normandy. The main forces of the division fell into the Falaise “sack”. Then she was in recovery. In December 1944 and January 1945 she fought in the Ardennes. In January 1945 she was transferred to Hungary.
                        10th SS Panzer Division "Frundsberg" In June 1944, the division was transferred to France and participated in heavy fighting in Normandy until August. The division then retreated through Eastern France and Belgium, then was withdrawn from the front and stationed in the Arnhem region. At the beginning of 1945, she fought on the Upper Rhine and in the Strasbourg area as part of the 15th Army of Army Group B. In February 1945, the division was transferred to Pomerania to the 11th Army of the Vistula Army Group, then retreated to the Oder.
                        9th SS Panzer Division "Hohenstaufen" In December 1944 and January 1945, the 9th SS Panzer Division "Hohenstaufen" took part in the Ardennes operation. In February-March 1945, it fought heavy battles west of Budapest.
                        5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking" In October 1943, it was reorganized into a motorized SS division. Finding itself surrounded near Cherkassy, ​​the division lost half its personnel. After completion, she fought in Poland, and at the end of 1944 she was sent to Hungary, where she took part in the attack on Budapest.
                      10. +1
                        24 January 2013 00: 21
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich"

                        Das Reich THIS IS ALL))))
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        And the most important thing!!! The Germans had a second front where they were all SS panzer divisions



                        Okay, clown, free. Continue shooting noodles)))))
                      11. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        24 January 2013 00: 36
                        3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf" During further battles, in particular Operation Bagration, the division suffered heavy losses and was forced to retreat. Subsequently, it managed to inflict significant damage on Soviet troops in the battles near Modlin in August 1944, when, using the favorable terrain, the division's tank units disabled and irrevocably destroyed a large number of Soviet and Polish T-34s. I dare say AUGUST. That's all. In early 1945, the division fought in Hungary, then retreated to Austria, where it surrendered to American troops.

                        I advise you to continue learning from the dustbins of history in this you are an ass. And I think it’s time to stop further dispute.
                      12. 0
                        24 January 2013 00: 44
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf"

                        You definitely weren’t the one who sent the Internet to the madhouse. You yourself confirm that you lied from an overabundance of the truth...
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        the most important!!! The Germans had a second front where all the SS tank divisions were located

                        How do you interpret the word ALL? Or is it Maudlin in Normandy?
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        . I dare say AUGUST. And that's it

                        Do you still have difficulty reading?
                        Quote: Kars
                        On 24 December 1944 the XNUMXrd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf" was removed from the front of Warsaw and transported to Hungary


                        That's not how you have to be such a da...no)))))
                      13. -2
                        24 January 2013 00: 52
                        5th SS Viking Panzer Division
                        history of the CC .VIKINGGl division
                        date
                        0з,.'l
                        04..{I
                        0g),4t
                        0(i.4I Olt.4l
                        0 9 . , 1 t - t 0 . , eleven
                        I l..l l-05.42
                        0(i.'2t
                        07.'12
                        011.42
                        09..1:l
                        t 0 . 4 2 - l 1 . 4 2
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                        It didn’t work out better, but you’ll find the cover for the ladies yourself.
                        Also look for it in Normandy and the Ardennes))))))))))))
                      14. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 04: 20
                        Yes, he proved that the Viking and the death’s head were in Poland until September, then they switched to replenishment there.

                        But ninety thousand German tanks are bullshit and the work of Soviet political education!!! And here is another confirmation of my words
                        Plus, about 20000 units can be added to the Soviet tank at the beginning of the forty-first year and twelve thousand under Lend-Lease. The Germans can add three thousand tanks at the beginning of 1941, and almost three thousand vehicles were produced in 1945.

                        Country of origin Produced by the end of the year
                        1941 1942 1943 1944 for half a year 1945
                        Germany 3805 6189 10700 18300
                        US 6123 27200 38500 20500 11300
                        England 4841 9233 7500 4600 1700
                        USSR 6590 24448 30100 33274 15450
                        these are purely tanks and self-propelled guns of all types
                      15. 0
                        24 January 2013 09: 52
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Yes he proved it

                        I proved that you are a clown.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        But ninety thousand German tanks are bullshit and the work of Soviet political education!!!

                        Who was talking about tanks? Can you read?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Production of tanks, tank destroyers, assault guns and self-propelled guns in 1934-1945 years.

                        * The total result of the actual German production (or by orders of Germany) - 75.513 units of armored vehicles.
                        * In addition, a large number of command tanks (without cannon armaments), mobile artillery fire adjustment posts, repair and recovery vehicles and other equipment were produced. With their account, the total number of armored vehicles made up 89.266 units.
                        * To them should be added the captured equipment received by the Wehrmacht - total 1.577 vehicles.
                        *Thus, the German armed forces received and used 90.843 units of armored vehicles during the Second World War

                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        plus about 20000 units can be added to the Soviet tank

                        They wrote a total of 130 thousand for your brake.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        these are purely tanks and self-propelled guns of all types

                        What do you mean by self-propelled guns? We count here, we don’t count here

                        the clown is free again))))) The Germans produced a variety of armored vehicles, and it’s their problem that they didn’t make solid tanks. There is also no accounting of trophies. So we can talk about 100-110 thousand armored vehicles.
                      16. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        24 January 2013 10: 50
                        Privdu said that the Internet was taken to a madhouse.
                      17. 0
                        24 January 2013 14: 54
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Privdu said that the Internet was taken to a madhouse.

                        I immediately said the same about you)))))))))
                      18. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        24 January 2013 11: 47
                        10000 - 20000 units of captured tanks is nonsense!!! In total, in the armies of Poland, Czechoslovakia and France there are about 5000 units - the mine was destroyed - minus those that were not used!!! About the performance characteristics, for example, almost all Polish ones weighed from 2,4 - 2,6 tons. The Soviet light armored car BA-20M based on the GAZ-21 weighed 2,62 tons!!! Complete nonsense!!!
                      19. 0
                        24 January 2013 15: 04
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        In total, there are around 5000 units in the armies of Poland, Czechoslovakia and France.

                        Have you fallen from the oak tree? Only in France there were about the same number of tanks. Czech armored vehicles go separately.
                        There is also Italy, Great Britain, the USA, the USSR - the war lasted from 1939 to 1945

                        So there were Churchills and captured Valentines, Shermans, T-34, BT, T-26, T-60, SU-122, Su-76/85, BA, M3.
                      20. 0
                        24 January 2013 15: 11
                        _________________
                      21. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        24 January 2013 16: 25
                        I may have fallen, but I don’t suffer from mental disorders. Contact your doctors. laughing

                        And now to the topic. Sorry, I forgot about several dozen ultra-modern heavy Churchill tanks, armed with a 40 mm cannon and for which a slope of 15 degrees is an insurmountable obstacle.

                        I’m talking about Soviet technology, if that’s the question, I won’t even count or look for anything. Turn to your sources, I am sure that the small figure of captured equipment that is worth there is 1 to 2 in favor of the Soviet Union. So you can safely add 20000-40000 to Soviet armored vehicles. Well, I’m operating purely from your data.
                      22. 0
                        24 January 2013 16: 44
                        To begin with --- you write nonsense and not
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Well, I’m operating purely on your data.

                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Sorry forgot about a few dozen

                        Not only have you forgotten, but you don’t know.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        I won’t even count or look for anything

                        and that’s right, it’s not your business, you’re too stupid for that.
                        I looked at your favorite link to the table
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        http://ww2tanks.ru/

                        there are no tractors and much more.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        I'm sure the minimum figure for captured equipment that costs there is 1 to 2 in favor of the Soviet Union

                        I didn’t understand what you wrote, to be honest. But you can read it

                        http://flibusta.net/b/247281/read

                        Unfortunately, the exploitation of trophies was poorly organized in the Soviet army. Here the Krauts bypassed us.
                      23. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 20: 30
                        your own lard!!! And who cares about the Red Army that they could not organize the operation of military equipment. And please don’t give me information about the workdays of repair base 85, but give me a figure and please show me in general on the front about the number of captured equipment for the entire period of the Second World War. And if you don’t have this number, please don’t bother!!!
                      24. 0
                        24 January 2013 21: 05
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        but please give me a figure and display the number of captured equipment for the entire period of the Second World War on the front as a whole. And if you don’t have this number, please don’t bother!!!

                        Hm.
                        feeling completely unpunished and intoxicated by his own irresponsibility
                        Not about you, my dear?
                      25. 0
                        24 January 2013 21: 44
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        your own lard!!!

                        Did you find any mention of
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        add 20000-40000 to Soviet armored vehicles

                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        give me the number and show me the front as a whole please

                        significantly less than the Krauts --- especially if you tell fairy tales that the poor Germans had very few tanks))))
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        please don't bother!!!

                        Dreamed

                        Clown, by the way, you still haven’t answered where you get your Aryan wisdom from, and IT also sets conditions.
                        Armored fighting vehicles Quantity
                        Austria 126
                        Czechoslovakia 6
                        France 2 410
                        Hungary 851
                        Italy 5 326
                        Italy (German-Italian production) 932
                        Poland 115
                        Россия 300
                        Yugoslavia 20
                        Total number: 95

                        Attempts were made to remake Stalin's tanks more systematically. In mid-1942, converted T-34 and KV-1 tanks began to emerge from German repair shops in Riga. The following year, modified T-34s began to be produced in Germany: at the Daimler-Benz plant in Marienfeld and the Wumag plant in Gorlice. After the German authorities conducted a study of the technical qualities of captured tanks transferred to the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS units, amazing facts were discovered. In May 1943, the Germans fought with 63 Soviet tanks, 50 of which were T-34 armored vehicles. In December, these numbers were 53 and 49, respectively. In total, the Germans used only 300 Soviet-made combat vehicles on the Eastern Front[152].

                        It seems that there were hundreds of such tanks in the front lines of the Wehrmacht, but this was not announced because of indifference to official reporting or out of fear of losing such military vehicles. After the Germans managed to get a large number of Russian armored vehicles, tank, tank grenadier and infantry units on the Eastern Front especially appreciated the quality of T-34 tanks. They also used a number of Soviet self-propelled guns, such as the SU-85, as well as armored vehicles.


                        Tucker-Jones Anthony The Great Tank Robbery. Hitler's captured armor
                        Probably the nickname of the pilot you mentioned)))
                        http://flibusta.net/b/204298/read#t8
                        And this is only in one book)))
                      26. vitya29111973
                        0
                        25 January 2013 01: 49
                        Don't sell me armored cars, which never existed, don't sell me here. I allow you to leave them on my ears.
                      27. 0
                        25 January 2013 01: 58
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Don't sell me armored cars, which never existed, don't sell me here. I allow you to leave them on my ears

                        Is Bobik dead? There’s nothing to answer on the topic? Have you read the book at least? with one eye)))))))
                        Apparently you are too stupid to perceive printed information))
                      28. vitya29111973
                        0
                        25 January 2013 01: 27
                        Five thousand tanks in France - get medical treatment, otherwise medicine will soon become paid!!! This is something akin to 90000 German tanks.
                      29. 0
                        25 January 2013 01: 35
                        Quote: Kars
                        Kars (1) Yesterday, 15:04 ↑ ↓

                        Giraffe? How long does it take to arrive?))))))

                        Allies:
                        type/weapon
                        Tanks:
                        number/armor

                        United Kingdom
                        Mark II Matilda
                        40 mm ca. 160
                        Pz:80mm
                        Cruiser Mark IIA
                        40 mm ca. 240
                        Pz:30mm
                        Cruiser Mark IIIA
                        40 mm ca. 240
                        Pz:14mm
                        France
                        Renault FT-17
                        37 mm 278
                        Pz:30mm
                        (AMR)+AMC
                        (MG)-47 mm 450
                        Pz: (13 mm) 40 mm
                        FCM
                        37 mm 100
                        Pz:40mm
                        Renault R-35
                        37 mm 900
                        Pz:45mm
                        Hotchkiss H-39
                        37 mm 770
                        Pz:45mm
                        D1+D2
                        47 mm 145
                        Pz:40mm
                        Somua S-35
                        47 mm 300
                        Pz:55mm
                        Char B1 bis
                        47 mm + 75 mm 274
                        Pz:60mm
                        Belgium
                        T13/T15 47 mm 270
                        Pz:60mm
                        Netherlands
                        Landverk 40
                        Total: ca. 4200

                        And to add that it was going to a factory in France.
                      30. 0
                        25 January 2013 01: 42
                        wassat
                        ))))))))))))))))))))))))
                      31. -1
                        26 January 2013 14: 58
                        And virtually all the fascist SS divisions were defeated and destroyed, and the war was won. And you eat the noodles that you remove from your ears, just don’t choke.
                      32. 0
                        24 January 2013 00: 54
                        From August to December 1944, the 3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf" fought in Poland as part of the IV SS Panzer Corps of the 9th Army of Army Group Center.
                        Then, together with her corps, she was transferred to Hungary.
                        By the way, this corps also included the 5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking"
                      33. 0
                        24 January 2013 00: 56
                        Quote: Spade
                        From August to December 1944, the 3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf" fought in Poland as part of the IV SS Panzer Corps of the 9th Army of Army Group Center.

                        Against the Americans?
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Yes, of course, after the Americans defeated the Germans in the Ardennes, what was left was thrown at Lake Balaton

                        ))))))))))))))
                        Clown)))))))))
                      34. 0
                        24 January 2013 01: 08
                        It’s in vain that he latched onto these “SS tank divisions” in general. If you dig there, it turns out that they were tanks only in name. As far as I remember, in the “old” divisions there was only one tank regiment. Well, it’s not worth talking about the new ones - they were never really formed. The SS chief wanted to show himself as a great commander, so he collected pine from the forest. Tanks, people, made a semblance of a strike group out of this, shoved it into the Ardennes, they advanced a little, abandoned their tanks without fuel and b/c and to Germany for reorganization and advancement to the lake area. Balaton. To recapture the oil fields.
                      35. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 02: 55
                        The 5th SS Panzer Division "Viking" is a division akin to the SS Galychin, where all kinds of fords served. One name is that SS. Began formation on November 20.11.1940, 1941 as the motorized SS division "Germany". In January 1941, the division became known as the SS Volunteer Motorized Division "Viking". The division consisted of Germans, Dutch, Flemings and Scandinavians. During 43-1943. There was a Finnish battalion "Nordost". From the summer of 1944 to July XNUMX, the Estonian Narva battalion was part of the division. I think you can guess the combat effectiveness of this division yourself.
                      36. 0
                        24 January 2013 03: 08
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        5th SS Viking Panzer Division

                        So you are denying her ESness)))))))))))
                        And Manstein was pleased with her)))))))))))


                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Started forming 20.

                        ,,,,,,,,,,,oh yoy Google exists)))))))))

                        Get signed for pearl
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        the most important!!! The Germans had a second front where they were all SS panzer divisions


                        Especially the three exclamation marks after THE MOST IMPORTANT.
                        I wonder what he read))))))))))
                      37. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 09: 40
                        Valyanok, in extreme cases, I have a link to something, even if I google it, in extreme cases, I don’t worry about vomiting about 90000 German tanks.
                      38. 0
                        24 January 2013 09: 55
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        I don’t give a damn about vomiting about 90000 German tanks

                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        there is a link

                        You yourself are a complete bastard, and I also have the link. Only the ARMORED VEHICLES clown
                      39. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 10: 33
                        German ARMORED VEHICLES and Soviet TANKOV AND SAU. I’ll give you the task of adding a few more tens of thousands of armored vehicles, trucks, ammunition carriers, etc. Then you will come up with the figure for Soviet ARMORED VEHICLES. Then SPEAK THIS NUMBER!!!

                        Continue to learn from such Soviet professors!!!

                        Major General of Aviation Viktor Nikolaevich Svishchev,
                        Doctor of Military Sciences, ProFFesor.

                        "As of June 1, 1941, Germany had a total of 5639 tanks and self-propelled artillery mounts (assault guns), including TI - 877, T-II - 1 light tanks; 077-ton medium tanks - 35, 187-ton - 38, T-III - 754, T-IV - 1440; flamethrowers - 517, commander's - 85, self-propelled artillery mounts 330. Outdated TI, T-II and 377-ton tanks were (excluding commander's) about 35 percent of the total the size of Germany's tank fleet. These tanks of outdated designs should be taken into account, and not converted into modern ones."

                        Pay attention to the detail of the average 35 and 38 tons. Where did the Germans get them from? This is where the nonsense of the Soviet propaganda industry comes to light. Czech T-35(t) and T-38(t) weighing 10,5 tons and 9,7 tons are called German medium tanks weighing 35 and 38 tons. That's where the numbers come from!!!!
                      40. 0
                        24 January 2013 14: 53
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        I’ll give you the task of adding a few more tens of thousands of armored vehicles, trucks, ammunition carriers, etc.

                        So then add tractors to the Fritz. We didn’t have armored ammunition carriers, artillery observers, armored vehicles, etc. So I’ll repeat once again FREE CLOWN.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Major General of Aviation Viktor Nikolaevich Svishchev,
                        Doctor of Military Sciences, ProFFesor

                        Well, at least he's a professor, unlike you.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        The obsolete TI, T-II and 35-ton tanks (excluding commander tanks) accounted for about 40 percent of the total German tank fleet. These tanks of outdated designs should be taken into account, and not converted to modern ones."

                        Everything is written correctly, so what?
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        medium tanks 35 tons - 187, 38 tons - 754,

                        for the Fritz they were average, THEY THEMSELVES called the four a heavy tank, classifying them according to the caliber of the gun.
                        And tonny is an incorrect translation of the index of belonging to Czechoslovakia, I could have guessed it myself.
                      41. 0
                        24 January 2013 15: 13
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Continue to learn from such Soviet professors!!!

                        Major General of Aviation Viktor Nikolaevich Svishchev,
                        Doctor of Military Sciences, ProFFesor.



                        The funny thing is that Major General of AVIATION))))))))))))
                        Who do you study with? By the way? Kurowski?
                      42. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 16: 57
                        At Ostap Bender's, only you go on the first shift, and I go on the second!!! laughing
                        ,
                      43. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 16: 51
                        fool, don’t turn on the bast shoe, what a translation of the index, I’m sure that the general knows German like I do Papuan, and this article was not written by the general, but by guys from the agitprom, like you, as they say, “more arrogance in your eyes”!. laughing
                      44. 0
                        24 January 2013 17: 04
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        fool, don't turn on the bast shoe

                        You have to grow to that level.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        what index translation

                        Panzerkampfwagen 38(t) Sd. Kfz.140
                        lucky that it’s not 140 tons, but nothing changes, even if you bang your head against the wall.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        and this article was not written by a general, but by guys from agitprom

                        no idea who wrote it, you indicated the authorship --- pilot. And some kind of propaganda in the words
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        The obsolete TI, T-II and 35-ton tanks (excluding commander tanks) accounted for about 40 percent of the total German tank fleet. These tanks of outdated designs should be taken into account, and not converted to modern ones

                        Only a sick person like you can succumb.
                      45. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 20: 48
                        I agree, I still have a long time to get to your level, I don’t know what to do to make my brain so dry. laughing
                      46. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 21: 11
                        look at the sign again, and if you don’t know how to read, I’m sorry.
                      47. 0
                        24 January 2013 21: 31
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        look at the sign again, and if you don’t know how to read, I’m sorry

                        Just look and find there Sd Kfz 7 Sd Kfz 10

                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        I don’t know what to do to make my brain dry out so much.

                        nothing will help you, you need a brain))))
                      48. vitya29111973
                        0
                        25 January 2013 01: 55
                        This is probably an ultra-modern German tank powered by nuclear fuel with invisible quantum laser weapons. Disguised as a Bergepanther repair and recovery vehicle. And the navid is purely a tractor, thanks for enlightening me!!!! laughing
                      49. 0
                        25 January 2013 02: 10
                        Why don’t you like the Bergpanther? I would exchange a dozen T-60s for it.

                        But the Fritz could have made two fours instead, but is that their problem? And how many wrecked tanks did they pull from the battlefield, the same broken CTs?

                        Bergepanther

                        On March 29, 1943, it was decided to develop a recovery vehicle based on the Panther for use in the Panzer-Abteilungen. In June 1943, MAN produced the first prototype series of 12 vehicles without turrets, based on modified Panther Ausf Ds returned from the front for repairs. Production of the Bergepanther began in July 1943 using the Panther Ausf A and the later Ausf G. But production proceeded at a sluggish pace, with many upgrades made during production. Early versions of the Bergepanther were armed with 20mm. KwK 38 L/55 guns, and later two 7,92mm. machine guns MG34 or MG42. Bergepanthers were operated by a crew consisting of a commander, driver and mechanic. The vehicles were equipped with a 1,5 ton crane and other restoration and repair equipment (large shovel, 40 ton winch, etc.),
                      50. vitya29111973
                        0
                        25 January 2013 03: 05
                        What are you talking about!!! As many as two 7,92 mm machine guns!!! This is how much of our equipment they burned in Kursk!!! laughing But this does not change the essence of the tractor, there is a tractor and sculpt a tank from it!!! It's in the table!!! So don’t skimp, but protect the number of armored vehicles with tractors.

                        I just googled it and noticed that not a single photograph from those times shows a cannon. I dare to conclude that the gun is an invention of the French propaganda industry. Firstly, it stands on the driver’s mechanic’s side and almost completely blocks his view. Secondly, based on the location of the gun, the driver mechanic also plays the role of loader and gunner. Isn’t it too much for one to steer and load and aim and shoot!!!! And most importantly - where is the ammunition stored!!! Based on the diagram, it’s only scattered underfoot. And even that is doubtful!!!
                      51. 0
                        25 January 2013 17: 07
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        What are you talking about!!! As many as two 7,92 mm machine guns!!!

                        I’m glad that I enlightened you once again. And the same amount as for Panzer 1, and that I missed 20 mm)))
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        That’s how much of our equipment they burned in Kursk!

                        It’s clear from you that your level of understanding of technology and tank details is below par, but the Krauts were well versed in this. And the value of technology is not only to burn someone,
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        But this does not change the essence of the tractor, there is a tractor and sculpt a tank from it!!! It's in the table!!!

                        I’ll enlighten you again, it’s not there as a tractor, it’s just like a repair and recovery vehicle.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        So don’t skimp, but protect the number of armored vehicles with tractors

                        You clown was given a task
                        Quote: Kars
                        Just look and find there Sd Kfz 7 Sd Kfz 10


                        you failed to cope with it and disgraced yourself even more.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        I just googled it and noticed that not a single photograph from those times shows a cannon.

                        Your personal problems, read the literature, it may help.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Isn’t it too much for one to steer and load and aim and shoot!!!!

                        Again, there are so many exclamation marks, and again I was being stupid --- this is a self-defense weapon, although a blunt cutter like you would hardly think of it before. And it can come in handy during the evacuation of damaged equipment from the battlefield, to drive away enemy infantry
                      52. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 21: 12
                        Only people behind whom the hospital is crying could have come up with such a medal. laughing
                      53. 0
                        24 January 2013 21: 32
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        only people have this medal

                        It’s because of people like you that they came up with this idea. It’s necessary to reward clowns with something))))))
                      54. -1
                        26 January 2013 13: 44
                        Why are you wearing Western noodles on your ears now? Soon you will get tired of her too.
                      55. 0
                        23 January 2013 16: 26
                        I wonder where THIS goes through the panzerlags?
                      56. vitya29111973
                        0
                        23 January 2013 17: 58
                        And thousands of tanks, supplied under Lendl Lease.
                      57. -2
                        23 January 2013 18: 15
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        And thousands of tanks, supplied under Lendl Lease.

                        Really?
                        Quote: Kars
                        and take our 130.

                        Quote: Kars
                        In total, 112.472 tanks and self-propelled guns were produced in the Soviet Union

                        Maybe you can guess where the difference comes from))))))))))
                      58. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 00: 47
                        If this is the question, then officially 12700 units does not add up!!!
                      59. 0
                        24 January 2013 01: 01
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        12700 units does not add up!!!

                        What doesn't fit:

                        10 tanks, 395 armored personnel carriers, 6242 self-propelled guns and 1802 armored vehicles arrived in the USSR. And in total - 127 units of armored vehicles

                        I wrote 130 rounded.

                        Drogovoz Tank sword of the Soviet country 131.8
                        availability at the beginning of the war + produced during the years + Lend Lease
                      60. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 15: 33
                        This is exactly the captured ultra-modern Polish tank TKS. laughing
                      61. 0
                        24 January 2013 15: 46
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Polish tank TKS

                        Really? And to find out I had to search Google with
                        Quote: Kars
                        Kars (1) Yesterday, 16:26 ↑ ↓ 0
                        I wonder where THIS goes through the panzerlags?

                        Moscow time? And at the same time, it does not answer the question of where it takes place in tank units. Or is it not taken into account in artillery and armored camps?
                      62. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 16: 05
                        By the way, I didn’t bother, I found it purely by accident!!!
                      63. 0
                        24 January 2013 16: 16
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        By the way, I didn’t bother, I found it purely by accident!!!

                        I don’t even know whether to take his word for it or to ridicule ignorance of materiel.
                      64. vitya29111973
                        0
                        25 January 2013 02: 00
                        you want to say that the picture shows a TKS tank.
                      65. 0
                        25 January 2013 02: 18
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        you want to say that the picture shows a TKS tank.

                        It’s strange, you tormented Google, you should know what a Pole looks like. And you ask such nonsense, it flies into one ear (eye) and flies out of the other? Repeat?
                      66. vitya29111973
                        0
                        25 January 2013 03: 07
                        in!!! otherwise I finally began to doubt your adequacy.
                      67. 0
                        25 January 2013 17: 19
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        in!!! otherwise I finally began to doubt your adequacy.

                        Well, the clown doesn’t doubt my adequacy)))))))) what a compliment, from a hoopoe that the T-60 cannot recognize and asks stupid questions.
                        Maybe you are once again doubting that this is not TKS? Looking at the photo of the T-60))))
                      68. 0
                        26 January 2013 21: 10
                        _____________________
                      69. vitya29111973
                        0
                        24 January 2013 20: 44
                        What should I know about the Polish supertank TKS? Yes, in principle, given your opinion, the tank was cooler than the Royal Tiger. And in service in the Polish Army there were only almost two times fewer of them than the “Royal Tigers”!!! laughing
                      70. 0
                        24 January 2013 21: 54
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        what should I know about

                        This is simply an indicator of poor knowledge of the topic.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        considering your opinion, the tank was cooler than the Royal Tiger

                        I wonder when I spoke on the topic of comparing a light machine-gun wedge and the most useless creation of the gloomy Teutonic genius?
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        And in service in the Polish Army there were only almost two times fewer of them than the “Royal Tigers”!!!

                        But there were probably more combat-ready CTs in the formations at one time.
                      71. vitya29111973
                        0
                        25 January 2013 02: 05
                        Thank you for enlightening me, I will know!!! I would please also have comparative data on how many armored vehicles were knocked out by KT and TKS. Then I will definitely believe!!! laughing
                      72. 0
                        25 January 2013 02: 20
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Thank you for enlightening me, I will know!!!

                        Please, just why the hell so much!!!!!!

                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        how many armored vehicles were hit by CT and TKS

                        it is enough for you to know about their existence.
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Then I will definitely believe!!!

                        What? You didn’t believe that Poland had wedges and then the Krauts used them?
                      73. vitya29111973
                        0
                        25 January 2013 04: 02
                        TKS is a tank, not a wedge.
                      74. 0
                        25 January 2013 17: 23
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        TKS is a tank, not a wedge.

                        What are you going to do to prove it?
                  3. 0
                    23 January 2013 11: 38
                    Quote: vitya29111973
                    then only the third and fifth tank armies “completely destroyed” the tigers - 1.8 - 2.1 times more than the German industry produced them, the Ferdinand self-propelled guns - (shocking figure) seventeen times!!! more than were released!!!!!!

                    In the reports, knocked out sounds bad, but destroyed is a completely different matter!
                    Here on the website information about the everyday life of the Tigers was published:
                    entered the position, was knocked out, dragged away, repaired...
                    And then he took the position...
                    It seems like about a third are constantly under repair.
                    wink
                    1. vitya29111973
                      -1
                      23 January 2013 16: 11
                      Here is the data on these numbers. http://ww2tanks.ru/ The usual distortion of figures by the Soviet, and also by the Russian military and political leaders, so as not to show their wretchedness. Even armored cars were included. I don’t know how it is with tanks, but the Russian soldier is the best, without apology, and is not subject to discussion. See the answer above.
                      1. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        23 January 2013 16: 56
                        And the most important thing!!! The Germans had a second front where all the SS tank divisions were located.
                      2. 0
                        23 January 2013 17: 02
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        The Germans had a second front where all the SS tank divisions were located.

                        It’s all right, and from 1941 to May 1945)))))) But tell me from whom, after Balaton, Hitler ordered the Essay stripes to be torn off))))))))


                        73 year in nickname is starting to scare me)))))))
                      3. vitya29111973
                        -1
                        23 January 2013 17: 33
                        Yes, of course, after the Americans defeated the Germans in the Ardennes, what was left was thrown at Lake Balaton.
                      4. 0
                        23 January 2013 18: 02
                        Quote: vitya29111973
                        Yes, of course, after the Americans defeated the Germans in the Ardennes,


                        Two questions arise here.
                        1. Do the Krauts really have something left that the valiant American tankers didn’t destroy?

                        2. Didn’t the great Fritz tank masters themselves stop the Arden offensive operation with a pill to the Yankees?


                        Not of course, there were three German cripples near Balat))))
                        The sign is not really about Lake Balaton)))
                      5. -1
                        23 January 2013 18: 03
                        Respected Kars, do not try to distort the true picture of the end of the Second World War, because the entire civilized world knows the truth voiced vitya29111973 that the beginning of the defeat of the Reich was the opening of the Second Front, and the backbone was finally broken in the Battle of the Bulge!
                        bully
                      6. 0
                        23 January 2013 18: 06
                        Quote: Cynic
                        that the beginning of the defeat of the Reich was the opening of the Second Front, and the backbone was finally broken in the Battle of the Bulge!


                        Did they say on Discovery that it was near El Alamein?
                      7. 0
                        23 January 2013 18: 19
                        Quote: Kars
                        near El Alamein

                        Mmmm?
                        Is this where it's going?
                        And, like somewhere in Africa or Asia?
                        Well, in general, not in Europe!
                        And when is it dear Kars, the fate of Europe was decided in Asia?! It has always been decided in Europe!
                        Quote: Kars
                        according to Discovery they said

                        She was misled! Al Qaeda supporters!
                3. 0
                  23 January 2013 11: 32
                  Quote: Kars
                  If you take all the armor

                  All these indicators for the reporting period...
                  Here, in a sense, as with the rating being discussed...
                  I came across a loss ratio of 1 to 3 in my memoirs, where it was said that in tank battles ours paid for the tiger with our three vehicles.
                  In a sense, you can say that this is an established opinion. Which can be both false and true. This is not official!
                  It has already been stated here: The best tank is the T-34, and the terrible Tiger.
                  I think I have stated my point of view clearly enough!
                  hi
  72. Nechai
    -1
    22 January 2013 16: 01
    Quote: Akim
    Many people complain. that Leopard and T-series tanks cannot interact with each other and the latter lose. And about artillery fire - that’s how they played on maps where everything was almost perfect (it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines).

    Leopards of the latest modifications and the T-72 export version are naturally machines of DIFFERENT generations. When “marshal marches” were carried out, including in Ukraine, the T-62 battalion was the first to leave, after an hour the TB was on the T-72, after half an hour the TB was on the T-80. At the finish line, 1st at 80k, 2nd at 72k, and 3rd at 62k.
    About artillery fire, I’m talking about bad training, no practice. Hence the “ravines”, but more FEAR...
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 16: 03
      Quote: Nechai
      Leopards of the latest modifications and T-72

      Where did the Poles get the latest Leopards? They got used Fours from the Bundeswehr.
    2. Akim
      0
      22 January 2013 16: 11
      Quote: Nechai
      Leopards of the latest modifications and the T-72 export version are naturally machines of DIFFERENT generations.

      I'm talking about Polish Leopards, and they have the 2A4 modification. This is somewhere on the level of our T-80(90), BM Bulat and T-72BM2.
      And about interaction - the old Leo1A5 in Germany could march in the same battle formation with the same Leo2A4 - because both were created for the same battle tactics.
  73. OlegYugan
    +1
    22 January 2013 16: 19
    Well, can anyone explain this to me? The most modern obsolete
    Well, you're screwed tongue
    T90 is modern and at the same time outdated laughing
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 17: 40
      I’ll try it now, I laughed for a long time, but mostly at the article itself. Now seriously, the author meant that the tank is morally outdated, but is the most modern in Russia. It’s just that when he excitedly wrote an article, like: yes, yes Oplot, you are the best....., “the turn has come” to the Russian representative - you are a worthless piece old g..in a mammoth. Something like that!!!!
  74. Nechai
    0
    22 January 2013 16: 50
    Quote: Kars
    Where did the Poles get the latest Leopards? They got used Fours from the Bundeswehr.

    Why did the Hansians heal nishtyaks for the Psheks? Ay-yay! How can Panama now move from Mozh to Mozh? Only in a hurry.
    Quote: Akim
    I'm talking about Polish Leopards, and they have the 2A4 modification. This is somewhere on the level of our T-80(90), BM Bulat and T-72BM2.

    That's what I'm talking about. What is the dispute about?
    In general, the psheks created a mess for themselves and the bags are gone. Why the hell should vehicles of different capabilities be harnessed into one line? For that matter. It’s better to have a separate tank brigade, at the very least TB and hang it on 72k BTU. Panzermans did about the same thing in the early 40s. On other vehicles, armored vehicles with anti-tank guns were used instead of tanks. And high-speed “rollers” ran along the flanks to the rear. Everything new is well forgotten old.
    1. Akim
      0
      22 January 2013 17: 28
      Quote: Nechai
      Why the hell should vehicles of different capabilities be harnessed into one line? For that matter. It’s better to have a separate technical brigade, in the extreme TB

      I did not say that they were brought together into a single brigade. They even have T-72M1 and PT-91 in different formations. They are by no means morons to disrupt logistics. Leopards are located as a separate brigade in Lower Silesia, and the same T-72M1 as a brigade in the Lublin Voivodeship, on the border with Ukraine. But in the teachings they overlap. Soon all T-72s will be replaced by Leopards, which Poland wants to buy from small European countries.
  75. +3
    22 January 2013 16: 55
    Well, okay, they attacked the author. He joked. What would be more fun for everyone, and you? Oh, you... It’s just that this tank is the only one and should be good, after all, it was created almost in the USSR, almost ours wink
  76. 0
    22 January 2013 17: 10
    Quote: leon-iv
    Even I don’t remember MBT with the letter C for service with the SA and the Russian Federation?

    So, in your opinion, the T-90MS Tagil is junk for the Papuans?
    and change the letter C to the letter A)))))) bully
  77. Nechai
    -1
    22 January 2013 17: 51
    Quote: Akim
    . But in the teachings they overlap.

    Kim, it’s the commanders who don’t want to strain their brains and that’s all. How convenient it is when everything is uniform, even if ugly. Tyatka (UES, read Germany) the rich will still buy. And to hell with them. Let's leave them alone. Frets?
    After all, what does it matter in which army the tank crews have what historical traditions? We have a line platoon of TB TB Regiment - 3 vehicles. In NATE - 5. We have 5 only among the Marines, but they were in the reconnaissance battalion. And in the TB SME there are as many as 4 vehicles in a platoon. So the guys with the fourth restless one suffered. Where to put him before he's knocked out? But the number of vehicles was determined not out of the blue, but actually on the basis of both experience and modeling. Achieving the LONGEST possible preservation of the combat effectiveness of the unit and the accomplishment of possible tasks.
    1. Akim
      0
      22 January 2013 18: 05
      Quote: Nechai
      We have a line platoon of TB TB Regiment - 3 vehicles. IN NATE - 5

      Who has 5? In Germany there were always 4 tanks in a platoon and 13 in a company. 41 tanks in the battalion. Although there are mixed motorized infantry battalions: 2 companies with infantry fighting vehicles, one with tanks (but there are also 13 of them).
      PS Although maybe I forgot something. Memory for such things does not last forever...
      What about our motorized riflemen/machine operators? A company is always attached to a mechanized / motorized rifle battalion, and 13 tanks is better than 10. Motorized rifle tanks are never given a separate task. (though in Ukraine now there are mechanized brigades 2/2 MxB and TB + artillery group of 2 or 3 divisions.
  78. +1
    22 January 2013 17: 59
    I read you brothers here... even remembered the combat regulations! Well done! What are we talking about, the best tank! Who makes these ratings?! That's right brothers, who benefits from this! I look at the syllable, almost everyone has a higher military education - now tell me, how can you compare non-war hardware? What is the crew's training like? Anyone who has fought knows that any little thing can affect the outcome of a battle - ergonomics, automatic loader, etc., etc. Calm down! All the best, UNTIL THEY FIGHT!
  79. +1
    22 January 2013 19: 01
    The Soviet school was and will be rays!!! That says it all... the T 80 rules... let's do the middle option... by the way, I don't understand why this tank was not taken into research in quotes)) It is much younger than some of the examples from the table!!!
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 19: 20
      Quote: aspirin02
      why was this tank not taken?

      Unsolvable dilemma: Where to rank?!!!
      Think for yourself!
      wink
  80. Corneli
    0
    22 January 2013 19: 24
    Fuck! The author is a real troll! laughing
    Put a stronghold on this site in 1st place and only in 5th tagil....it's just PPC am
    But essentially, without trollism and hysterics (as many people here, unfortunately, like):
    1. How and where and on what basis games tests, this “rating” was tested, I don’t know (in fact, almost all tanks of the announced modifications are present in test-advertising quantities)
    2. Rather “anti-Ukrainian”, “...Tank-demonstrator (tooncept-tank) T-90MS Tagil is the next improved modernization of the most modern obsolete serial Russian main battle tank T-90A..." - this is immediately a hundred miles of minuses from the patriots of the T-90 tanks!) (and yes... about none of the tanks presented so disgusting was not written()
    3. Even if you remove all sorts of things like WWII and other things, it’s not clear why damn it’s 2 km?! It seems like the tanks of the USSR even took into account the work of ATGMs (there the range is higher.... never mind, you can set any conditions, but in theory, it’s not even super-effective, some could start shooting from 5 km)
    In short, the rating is really ugh.... And the tanks are not test, and the trolling is stupid (it’s all about Kharkov, it’s all Tagil) and the site is not the same (EVEN if this were true, there are still a lot of minuses and hysterics))
    P.S. Huge request, "hurray-patriots" of any countries, please stop writing nonsense!!! especially in the comments (sometimes it gets so bad that you don’t even want to read(
    1. +1
      22 January 2013 19: 29
      Quote: Corneli
      stop writing nonsense!!!

      Against !!!
      Let them write!!!
      How little has been written, but how much is positive! It’s so rare that you get to laugh with the whole group!
      fellow
      1. -4
        22 January 2013 20: 45
        Quote: Cynic
        so much positivity!

        Here's a real positive __________))))
        1. +1
          22 January 2013 21: 51
          Quote: Kars
          Here's a real positive __________)))

          Pasiba Kars, thank you!!!
          I opened the mail, and here my wife was behind me, as if from an ambush: So, honey, you’re hanging out on a military website, and these b... where from!!!
          what
          1. 0
            22 January 2013 23: 11
            Quote: Cynic
            Thank you Kars, thank you!!!

            Pzhalsta
            Quote: Cynic
            You hang out on the site, and these b... where from!!!

            Apparently I was fined before))))) what is mistrust.
            1. 0
              23 January 2013 10: 26
              Quote: Kars
              Seems earlier

              Well no .
              She just has friends whose husbands are cool macho men and great hackers who use complex passwords on social networks like qwertyu!
              And I went out for a walk, the passwords were on a sticky note and the browser was set to auto-save passwords. There is nothing to brag about when talking! laughing
              Why does she need to know about auto-cleaning cookies, tags and logs?!
              Stupid people are completely stupid when it comes to computers!
              wink
    2. 0
      22 January 2013 20: 35
      Quote: Corneli
      This is immediately worth a hundred miles of minuses from the patriots of the T-90 tanks!)

      Does he think that this makes anyone feel cold or hot?
      Quote: Corneli
      It’s not clear why damn it’s 2 km?!

      To do this, you need to understand a little about the topic of the issue. This is the standard tank battle station in the European theater of operations. You can also ask why the standard for assessing tank guns is armor penetration at a distance that you don’t understand, 2000 meters.
      Quote: Corneli
      some people could start shooting from 5 km)

      But this is very difficult even in testing conditions.
      Go to my profile there is an article Tank.Man.
      Quote: Corneli
      P.S. Huge request, "hurray-patriots" of any countries, please stop writing nonsense!!!

      Hooray Patriots, this is a smaller problem compared to, for example, the Russian Defense Ministry and their generals.

      THEIR PLATE))))))))))
      1. 0
        22 January 2013 20: 41
        The generals wanted new types of weapons. And I understand them.
      2. 0
        23 January 2013 18: 17
        I only agree about the satellite, our radio electronics are AWESOME! For the rest of the nomenclature, the data is outdated and does not take into account the past modernization.
  81. Azat2005
    0
    22 January 2013 21: 27
    This article was written by someone from YANDIA, he probably designed the battle himself, firstly, everything is decided by the training of the tank crew, and the bells and whistles are an addition to completing the task, and as for the T-84 OPLOT and T 90 MS TAGIL tanks, they are both approximately the same in their characteristics, otherwise the Indians wouldn’t be such fools to spend their money on buying a T 90
    1. -2
      22 January 2013 21: 32
      Quote: azat2005
      firstly, everything is decided by the training of the tank crew

      How to evaluate it? And who do you think is better, a conscript tanker or a Yankee in his 4th year of work?
      Quote: azat2005
      bells and whistles are an addition to completing the task

      The bells and whistles may well save lives,
      Quote: azat2005
      Indians are not such fools to spend their money on buying a T 90

      But they didn’t buy MS Tagil.
      1. +1
        22 January 2013 21: 41
        У crew Among the conscripts, the training may be higher than that of the crew of American contract soldiers.
        1. -3
          22 January 2013 21: 45
          Quote: Spade
          than that of a crew of American contract soldiers

          Probably because of the presence of homosexuals?
          Quote: Spade
          Conscript crew may have higher training

          It’s strange, there are several professional tankers here and they personally told me that a year is very short, especially for modern vehicles with a dominance of electronics.

          I will say from the experience of communicating with Ukrainian conscript tankers that the 19-year-old commander of the T-64BV Tank does not inspire optimism in me.
          1. 0
            22 January 2013 21: 57
            Quote: Kars
            Probably because of the presence of homosexuals?

            And what about this?


            Quote: Kars
            It’s strange, there are several professional tankers here and they personally told me that a year is very short, especially for modern vehicles with a dominance of electronics.

            And you yourself ask them what is better, a well-coordinated crew of conscripts, or four super-professionals who were shoved into one tank half an hour ago. The likelihood that the crew of contract soldiers will be better is higher, but it is impossible to say unequivocally that this is so.
            1. -2
              22 January 2013 23: 05
              Quote: Spade
              And what about this?

              What does this have to do with it? Are you laughing - this is the main factor in the collapse of the US Army - homosexuals.
              Quote: Spade
              or four super-professionals who were put into one tank half an hour ago

              Didn’t you just say something stupid? Why is it that you, as conscripts, have been together for a year, and as pros, they saw each other for half an hour.
              Even the Krauts supported the crews in WWII. But for some reason it’s easier for me to imagine joining a crew of conscripts for two weeks as from school.
              Quote: Spade
              but it is impossible to say unequivocally that this is so

              I can definitely say that the professional crew will win.
              Moreover, conscripts rarely like their military specialty - they would rather have women and vodka. The tank commander I mentioned (he joined us in college) could not distinguish Abrams from a Challenger. And he fell into hysterics when he tried.. to talk about tanks.. this was in 2001
              1. 0
                22 January 2013 23: 25
                Quote: Kars
                What does this have to do with it? Are you laughing - this is the main factor in the collapse of the US Army - homosexuals.

                Like a joke, the meaning of which is known only to the initiated?


                Quote: Kars
                Didn’t you just say something stupid?

                When did you say that crew coherence is of great importance? Or when he clarified that the high individual training of crew members does not at all mean that the crew is coherent?
                1. -2
                  22 January 2013 23: 33
                  Quote: Spade
                  When I said that

                  Quote: Spade
                  or four super-professionals who were put into one tank half an hour ago


                  can you figure out how this happened?

                  And the most interesting thing is that even if they are super professionals from 4 different (SAME, or what else will you think) tanks combined into one crew, their effectiveness will most likely be greater. Than those who count the days until the order and prepare a demobilization album.
                  1. 0
                    22 January 2013 23: 42
                    So, have you decided that I consider all American tankers to be “super-professionals who were shoved into one tank half an hour ago”? Well, you already thought of that for me. And they rushed to argue with their own incorrect conclusions from my words.
                    The Americans pay great attention to combat coordination at all levels. I simply gave you an example of the fact that high individual training of individual tank crews does not at all mean high readiness of the crew as a whole.
                    1. 0
                      22 January 2013 23: 49
                      Quote: Spade
                      So you decided that I consider everyone

                      I don’t know what YOU think. But in black and white
                      Quote: Spade
                      or four super-professionals who were put into one tank half an hour ago

                      Now you jump off
                      Quote: Spade
                      Americans pay great attention to combat coordination at all levels

                      Quote: Spade
                      I just gave you an example that high individual training of individual tank crews does not mean high readiness of the crew as a whole

                      You didn’t bring anything up, you just wrote nonsense. Sorry, I’m writing it as it is, and then they started to twist it around.
                      Quote: Spade
                      that I consider all American tankers to be “super-professionals who were shoved into one tank half an hour ago”?

                      But who do you think? or who are you describing?
                      1. 0
                        22 January 2013 23: 56
                        Let's do this, I'm not interested in this pouring from empty to empty.
                        Follow my advice:
                        Quote: Spade
                        And you yourself ask them what is better, a well-coordinated crew of conscripts, or four super-professionals who were shoved into one tank half an hour ago

                        That's all. I’m too lazy to figure out what you didn’t understand from what I wrote and explain unclear points.
                      2. +1
                        23 January 2013 00: 02
                        Quote: Spade
                        And all

                        No, it won’t work.
                        First you have to answer a simple question
                        Quote: Kars
                        that I consider all American tankers to be “super-professionals who were shoved into one tank half an hour ago”?
                        But who do you think? or who are you describing?

                        Quote: Spade
                        I'm too lazy to figure it out

                        But weren’t you too lazy to comment?
                        Quote: Spade
                        A crew of conscripts may have higher training than a crew of American contract soldiers

                        So you will have to answer for your words.
                        Even here there is no certainty. And there is a crew, and there is a crew.
                        If you want to jump off, yes please.
              2. 0
                28 January 2013 19: 20
                At the end of the 80s, there was an opinion that conscripts were not able to fully master the T-80; only officer crews or super-conscripts could realize all the capabilities of this tank.
  82. MG42
    0
    22 January 2013 21: 35
    Well, this is just a ridiculous rating compiled by Ukrainian. Urapatriots. The original source is also kind of leftist.
    1. -1
      22 January 2013 21: 38
      Come on, now everyone who is not too lazy compiles ratings in order to put their sample at the top of them. Why can’t “Ukrainian patriots” do this?
      1. MG42
        0
        22 January 2013 21: 45
        I was at that factory, the best factory in the world? The best tank in the world cannot be built on such a production base.
  83. +3
    22 January 2013 22: 08
    Once upon a time, I asked one veteran grandfather, which tank is the best?......he thought and answered, T-34..and then sighed and added..AND THE MOST TERRIBLE IS THE TIGER...... ..and this thought quite often popped up in the conversations of the veteran, so try to translate this thought into ratings....it’s a little difficult to wake up.
  84. Shumer
    0
    22 January 2013 22: 51
    Guys, sorry for the off-topic question, but still smile
    Today, at a mechanic's work, a dispute was started - they say, can a bottle with a cocktail named after Comrade Molotov be burned, or can a modern tank be disabled?
    1. 0
      22 January 2013 23: 12
      Quote: Shumer
      Molotov burn

      Can.
      but very dangerous.
    2. 0
      22 January 2013 23: 20
      Quote: Shumer
      can a bottle with a cocktail named after Comrade Molotov burn

      Maybe, as usual on blinds and if the PPP does not work. It seems like fire safety systems have been installed for a long time.
      The standard equipment of the tank is a fire protection system (in the engine compartment)

      Least .
      In general, it is an exotic method of suicide.
      1. 0
        23 January 2013 00: 35
        It depends on what kind of cocktail....after all, a bottle with gasoline and a bottle with a nuclear phosphorus mixture are, in principle, the same Molotov cocktail....., a burning cocktail may not destroy a tank but can temporarily blind it, and a temporarily blinded tank in principle, as a rule, already a goal.
  85. -1
    22 January 2013 23: 05
    Had some fun laughing
    Now it’s worth waiting for a rating review like “Best Virtual Jet of 2012” from, for example, a Polish Internet resource... What an intrigue!? wassat
  86. Gans72
    0
    22 January 2013 23: 41
    Why doesn’t the author provide a link. Where, by whom and when was this rating carried out? “Oplot” is no better than the T-90. It’s no worse, yes, but not better either. The optics and electronics are French on both tanks, The T-90 has a better gun, the Oplot has an engine, an automatic loader and a remote control. Again, what kind of ammunition is used? As they say on the WoT forum, “Another epic rant”
  87. Avenger711
    -2
    23 January 2013 18: 53
    "Stronghold"? Thank you, I laughed.
  88. toguns
    -3
    23 January 2013 23: 02
    wassat Bredorating like all Ukrainian tank building.
    Even without being a Ukrainian expert and adherent of Tarasenko, I authoritatively declare
    Merkava, leopard, Abrams and Tagil will be more kosher in battle than all these strongholds there.
    1. 0
      24 January 2013 15: 24
      Quote: toguns
      Merkava, leopard, Abrams and Tagil are more kosher

      Based more kosher Your rating is compiled.
      Quote: toguns
      in battle they will be like all these strongholds.

      In what battle? Oncoming with opening fire at a distance of 2 km?
      Moreover, it was posted above
      Quote: Corneli
      P.S. Huge request, "hurray-patriots" of any countries, please stop writing nonsense!!! especially in the comments (sometimes it gets so bad that you don’t even want to read(

      Nai-i-ivny-y.
      bully
  89. toguns
    -2
    23 January 2013 23: 23
    Quote: toguns
    Bredorating like all Ukrainian tank building.
    Even without being a Ukrainian expert and adherent of Tarasenko, I authoritatively declare
    Merkava, leopard, Abrams and Tagil will be more kosher in battle than all these strongholds there.

    I forgot to add Challenger and Type 99 to the pantheon of greats...
    Actually, according to the rating, it will be clear that the first place, well, the stronghold does not have a chance of a maximum of 7th place.
  90. 0
    25 January 2013 13: 01
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjC0a5kN-oI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGNauvBe6IA
    Look, maybe your opinion will change about the best tanks in the world.
  91. Director
    -1
    25 January 2013 13: 22
    XXXXXXXXXHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I'll piss myself now
  92. +1
    25 January 2013 14: 52
    Good joke! Look how the people got agitated hi
  93. 0
    25 January 2013 19: 32
    They tell me again that I'm bad,
    Well, there is no ban on dogs barking.
    But God will judge us with a great war.
    Where there are not a hundred questions, there are two answers.

    Whoever wins is definitely right.
    Armor and guns are half the battle.
    And the one who became ashes after the battle,
    He will not reach the finish line.

    I am a Russian tank, I am the winner of death.
    My fathers shot at the Reichstag itself.
    But it was not me who won, but my driver.
    Who entrusted me with his beautiful flag.

    I wore it with pride for decades,
    The color is red, the color of victory and spring.
    I asked only one thing from all of you.
    Let me live without a big war.

    But without hearing, you made a mess.
    And it’s time for me to go to mortal combat.
    I will not lose our honor and glory,
    It’s not in vain that I’ll die on the tank path.
  94. Crang
    0
    25 January 2013 20: 00
    they were compiled by subjective assessment without reference to computational modeling of tank battles
    So what? This subjective article is compiled in exactly the same way. And here is my subjective judgment and assessment:
    1. T-90MS vs T-84M?
    2. T-90A vs ZTZ-99A2?
    3. Leclerc-AMX-56 vs Merkava-MK.IV?
    4. М1А2SEP
    5. Challenger 2
    6. T-80U
    7. Leopard-2A6EX
    8. Type-90
    9. A sea of ​​tanks begins.
    1. +1
      25 January 2013 20: 14
      Quote: Krang
      And here is my subjective judgment and assessment:

      Your right.

      Just be able to clearly explain the reason why the T-90A is higher than the T-80U/UD
      Quote: Krang
      T-84M?

      after all BM Oplot

      And what is the advantage of the Abrams over the Challenger?

      Why does Leopard 6 go lower than the T-80U?
  95. Crang
    -1
    26 January 2013 07: 50
    The Ukrainians are trying to advertise their tank.

    Quote: Kars
    Just be able to clearly explain the reason why the T-90A is higher than the T-80U/UD

    What do not you understand? The T-80U has not been produced for a long time. Do not confuse it with the T-80UM1 "Bars" which was not accepted into service. T-80U is an old EMNIP tank from 1989 or so. How can it compete with our newest T-90A? The Eight is significantly inferior to the T-90A both in armor thickness and its equivalent. Night technical vision in the form of the Ti-sight TO-PO-2T "Agava-2" or even the good IR-sight "Buran-PA" cannot compare with the modern thermal imaging module "Essa" of the T-90A tank. The T-80U is an approximate analogue of the first basic T-90 of the late 80s and early 90s.
    Quote: Kars
    after all BM Oplot

    Not really. The fully digital T-90MS with powerful protection is still more powerful than the Oplot. The electronics are much better on the T-90MS. It already has an over-the-horizon aiming system according to TIUS data. There's so much stuff there that "Oplot" couldn't even dream of. The gun is better, the shells are better, etc.
    Why does Leopard 6 go lower than the T-80U?
    Because Leopard 2 is shit. Almost the entire BC is in the hull along with the crew, and the dimensions are the same as that of the Abrams. In other words, the tank has all the disadvantages of the Abrams without its advantages. In the L-2A6EX variant, so much armor was added to the already overloaded chassis that the driver's hatch became non-functional. Thus, if something happens, the L-2A6EX driver will be in the same asshole trap like the driver of the IS-2 tank. And this is in the age of “humanity”. The side armor of the turret is 20mm. The tank is vulnerable even from small arms. No - nonsense.
    And what is the advantage of the Abrams over the Challenger?
    Yes, in principle, there are few things... The control system is better. The projectiles are more powerful. And so these are two, although different, but close in their capabilities tanks.

    1. -1
      26 January 2013 16: 58
      Quote: Krang
      T-80U is an old EMNIP tank from 1989 or so.

      Well, if ten years is “about that,” then of course it is.
      Quote: Krang
      The T-80U is an approximate analogue of the first basic T-90 of the late 80s and early 90s.

      But you said this in vain; none of the T-90 supporters can stand this fact. not even a hint of it! A good new tank is on par with the old serial one!
      And that series is already ten years old and more than one thousand of its analogues are already riding around cities and villages!
      Quote: Krang
      The electronics are much better

      The electronics are quite nomadic, the canopy is installed on only one model, and tomorrow...
    2. -2
      26 January 2013 17: 15
      Quote: Krang
      T-80U has not been produced for a long time

      And what does this have to do with it? Leclerc, for example, has also not been produced for twenty years.
      Quote: Krang
      Do not confuse it with the T-80UM1 "Bars"

      I can read.
      Quote: Krang
      EMNIP 1989 or so. How can it compete with our newest T-90A?

      Why is it the newest? How is this expressed?
      Quote: Krang
      90A. The T-80U is an approximate analogue of the first basic T-90 of the late 80s and early 90s.

      To be more precise, this T-90A is an approximate analogue of the T-80U, and there is NO fundamental superiority. The only thing that everyone recognizes is that it is cheaper and that’s all.
      Quote: Krang
      Well no

      TA-dah.
      Quote: Krang
      The fully digital T-90MS with powerful protection is still more powerful than the Oplot. The electronics are much better on the T-90MS. It already has an over-the-horizon aiming system according to TIUS data

      Over-the-horizon? What do you mean? It exists or is DECLARED, and using a tank gun against targets over-the-horizon is serious.
      Quote: Krang
      There's so much stuff there that "Oplot" couldn't even dream of. The gun is better, the shells are better, etc.

      Unfortunately, there is nothing like that for the Russian Federation, but I won’t dissuade you. It doesn’t make sense until the MS adopts at least SOME kind of army in the world.
      Quote: Krang
      Turret side armor 20mm

      it's a lie.
      Quote: Krang
      In the L-2A6EX version of armor on an already overloaded chassis

      The chassis is not particularly overloaded with anything, there is enough power reserve. But that’s okay. Leo’s sights are better, the gun is better, the frontal armor is better, at least because of the modularity.
      Quote: Krang
      Yes, in principle, there are few things... The control system is better. Projectiles are more powerful

      This is also incorrect, rifled guns have better accuracy and a better high-explosive projectile. Armor.
      1. Crang
        +1
        26 January 2013 22: 35
        Tell me, did you write this article? Article custom.. No, well, you Ukrainians - well, go to Ukraine and praise your "Oplot". No, they go to the Russian website with such articles. And so aggressively. They want to convince someone of something. No, gentlemen, there are no idiots here. And the rating of this article confirms this. Just what is the rating of "Oplot" worth:

        The best main battle tank of the world 2012 of the year Ukrainian T-84 BM Oplot is produced at the State Enterprise "Malyshev Plant" in the city of Kharkov.
        “Modestly” right? Apparently a respectable guy wrote with such a sweet baritone in his voice. And here is the assessment of the T-90MS Tagil:

        The T-90MS Tagil tank demonstrator (concept tank) is another improved modernization of the most modern obsolete serial Russian main battle tank T-90A model 2006
        The new version of the modernization of the T-90A tank in the T-90MS Tagil version did not give the tank phenomenal fire and running capabilities,


        You should at least learn to lie first, gentlemen. After all, this immediately catches the eye of any seven-year-old boy. Isn’t your “Oplot” an obsolete T-80UD? Which is even worse than the T-90. Besides, for that matter, the T-80 is our Leningrad Kirov tank. And your Ukrainian is a T-64 - it’s not a tank at all. The T-90MS Tagil will defeat your Oplot in any situation with a 90% probability. Our electronics are better, and much better. Our gun is better. Ours has better shells. Ours has better armor. Our engine is better. You finish with these 6TD. Better take a 1L engine from a Yamaha YFZ R1, add three more turbines and squeeze 1000 hp out of it. Put it on the Oplot-M3 and you will be proud that you got so many horses from such a volume. Just don’t forget to extinguish firemen in the MTO periodically. And change the engines every 50 km.

        To be more precise, this T-90A is an approximate analogue of the T-80U, and there is NO fundamental superiority. The only thing that everyone recognizes is that it is cheaper and that’s all.
        And a new welded tower. New gun, New fire control system, New devices, new armor scheme - these are small things, right?

        Over-the-horizon? What do you mean? It exists or is DECLARED, and using a tank gun against targets over-the-horizon is serious.
        If the target is displayed on the TIUS, then the tank gun is aimed precisely at it even if the target is not yet in line of sight (it is behind houses, behind hills, or somewhere else). As soon as the target appears within line of sight in the next second - strike.

        it's a lie.
        No - not a lie. The roof and sides of the turret at the rear have armor of exactly this thickness.

        This is also incorrect, rifled guns have better accuracy and a better high-explosive projectile. Armor.
        Only better accuracy. And the smoothbore has more power. It’s much easier to create powerful high-explosive and cumulative shells, as well as missile-launched missiles for a smooth-bore gun than for an NP.
        1. -1
          27 January 2013 15: 07
          Krang don’t get angry soon, in 5-7 years everything will fall into place, the old Soviet technologies will wear out and that’s it. And only Russia will be able to create something new on its own without cooperation.
  96. Algor73
    +1
    26 January 2013 14: 07
    The eternal debate is which tank is better. Never, except for real combat operations (not lonely and short), will anyone be able to evaluate a tank. Of all the induced ones, we can single out only Abrams and Merkava. And the rest don't count. The stated characteristics are not always justified in battle. And to praise one’s own only from a sense of patriotism is, to put it mildly, not objective.

    The eternal debate is which tank is better. Never, except for real combat operations (not lonely and short), will anyone be able to evaluate a tank. Of all the induced ones, we can single out only Abrams and Merkava. And the rest don't count. The stated characteristics are not always justified in battle. And to praise one’s own only from a sense of patriotism is, to put it mildly, not objective.
    1. -1
      26 January 2013 16: 23
      Quote: Algor73
      Can be distinguished from all the induced ones, except Abrams and Merkava

      Well, if we are to be objective, then the Merkava, and honest, the T-55!
      Exactly T-55!!! This is who fought and will fight again!
      drinks
  97. Venguard
    0
    26 January 2013 18: 58
    advertising stronghold, I’m really tired of it already...
  98. +1
    26 January 2013 19: 24
    Maybe even Oplot is better than Tagil, but putting it in first place is stupid. + also write what
    Tagil is another improved modernization of the most modern obsolete serial Russian main battle tank T-90A model 2006.
    , like Oplot mega, super modern and designed from scratch lol Article for fun
  99. +3
    26 January 2013 19: 45
    This morning on Euronews they showed without comment (not on purpose, I think, they just showed what happened) how in Syria (if I haven’t confused anything) there were two of our tanks in the city (well, in the sense that they were bought from us), they planted them in one, apparently from an RPG (not sure), it burned for four seconds (the ammunition did not detonate), first there was a long (and long) stream of smoke from the barrel - I thought the ejector worked somehow strangely - then from the hatches upward a stream of fire, like from a rocket engine - three seconds. I’m actually an amateur, but putting a living person in such a tank is not even considering him as a resource, but as a cartridge. Previously, I perceived all this talk as somehow theoretical, but today I tried it on a soldier behind armor - I am very much for our tanks - but to put him in such a thing... There are simply no words... Forgive us for what you are fighting with...
    1. 0
      26 January 2013 19: 58
      Quote: alex86
      then a stream of fire shoots upward from the hatches, like from a rocket engine - for about three seconds.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk8GZvRe1lE
      1. +3
        26 January 2013 21: 08
        No complaints, but this is last year, and today they showed (relatively) yesterday’s filming. and these were T-72s. I’m not talking about what’s on YouTube, I’m bitter about the fact that people in our tanks burn in 4 seconds - you can talk as much as you like about how wonderful our tanks are - but when you see how people in a tank died instantly, and in 4 seconds - now I’m not ready to think that we have wonderful tanks. And all the talk about how the Arabs abandoned our tanks as soon as they heard clicks on the armor, even from a heavy machine gun - so if they saw a similar picture once - can be understood (I’m not saying “justify”). For some reason, I completely disliked our method of loading, coupled with ammunition... For some reason, I felt really sorry for our tankers... It looks like we are doing absolutely crap, incl. and with all sorts of T-90s (with any letters). I don’t like this American expression “give a chance” - but these guys had no...
        And now, without emotions - when there was the USSR and the population was approaching 300 million - it was possible to fight on such tanks - “women are still giving birth.” Now there are 140 million of us and we are dying out - now such an attitude towards people is unacceptable, we need to follow the path (no matter how unpleasant it is for anti-Semites to hear) of Israel. We need to take care of people...
        1. 0
          26 January 2013 21: 36
          Quote: alex86
          I am bitter about the fact that people are burning in our tanks in 4 seconds

          I don’t want to refute or praise anything, but...
          There are so many rollers, and the car hatches are open! In the city ! Members of the suicide club?
          came across
          http://alternathistory.org.ua/tank-t-72-v-boyakh-v-sirii
    2. +1
      26 January 2013 21: 43
      Quote: alex86
      This morning on Euronews

      I think I found it
      http://avramenko-konst.livejournal.com/1129985.html
      The head broke until mr-quietest noticed a swarming under the tank at 0.04 seconds.
      He blew up a tank, red dog! He crawled up, apparently attached a cumulative hand grenade - the kind of thing with a parachute in the handle - and blew up the tank, son of a bitch!
      1. +1
        26 January 2013 22: 14
        They hit absolutely right - that’s exactly it - I won’t comment on the reasons for the explosion - I’m increasingly talking about the consequences and “consumer properties of the product” in the form of the T-72. Somehow I was upset... The fate of a tanker in a damaged tank is generally unenviable, but to become a grill in 4 seconds... They will tell me that in a minute - even worse - I agree, and death in war is rarely beautiful and easy - but to be doomed for this... I simply bow my head to the tank crews’ readiness to fulfill their military duty in such conditions...
      2. 0
        26 January 2013 23: 47
        In general, everything looks very strange, very...
      3. lucidlook
        -1
        27 January 2013 00: 49
        From RPG to the stern.

        And the driver came out from below, as I understand it.
        1. Crang
          0
          27 January 2013 18: 40
          By the way, this RPG is of the latest generation - RPG-29 "Vampire". Very powerful. This is how they easily killed Merkava-MK.IV in Israel. This was used to pierce the forehead of the Challenger 2 in Iraq. In short, it's a powerful thing. It is not surprising that the old T-72M was hit by such ammunition. The other thing is unclear. The gunner was thrown out. He began to run under the bullets for cover. And his comrade, who stood turned in the direction from which the shot was fired, did not react in any way. Why didn't he open fire? Its optics are quite decent. And it’s a clear day outside. Although apparently he did open it - that’s why the filming was interrupted quickly.
          1. -1
            27 January 2013 19: 29


            A shot from an RPG-29 in the stern, hitting the ammunition rack (http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2013/01/blog-post_27.html#comment-form). Any tank could be burned down like that. In this regard, only the Abrams is more or less protected, since almost all of its ammunition rack is in the turret niche, and is fenced off from the crew by armored doors. All others have ammunition next to the crew. And it doesn’t matter whether one charge ignites or all of it - that’s enough for the crew.
            1. 0
              27 May 2017 14: 51
              Abrams is even more vulnerable, it’s easier to get into the turret, and the niche armor is not gutted. And you can tell an anecdote about armored doors to specialists like the author of the article. When the ammunition detonates, the crew is guaranteed to die (possibly except for the mechanic). The Discovery Channel was unable to film a video about how an Abrams survives being hit from the side or rear of a turret.
    3. 0
      27 May 2017 14: 55
      Euronews channel! trustworthy source :-)
  100. lucidlook
    0
    27 January 2013 00: 46
    Again?! Again this spherical horse meat in a vacuum? And did you get here?

    Remind me, please, when was the last time there were oncoming tank battles without aviation participation, without participation of artillery and without infantry participation?

    About the line of sight distance of at least 2 km is a separate story.

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