Tank "Type 99": the main thing - do not overplay

A striking example of the ability of Chinese engineers to create their own designs based on foreign developments is the newest tank PLA "Type 99" and its modifications. Created a little over ten years ago, a combat vehicle over the years has managed to undergo a number of modernizations that have affected equipment, weapons and other aspects of the structure. At the same time, despite a number of advantages over the previous ones tanks, “Type 99” has not yet been able to become the main one, not only in terms of classification, but also in a quantitative aspect. Nevertheless, the construction of new tanks continues and over the next few years, the Type 99 can become the most massive heavy armored vehicle in the Chinese army.

The creation of the “99 Type” began in the mid-nineties of the last century, when the PLA command once again requested NORINCO tank designers to make a combat vehicle capable of reducing the quality gap between Chinese and foreign tanks. During the development of the appearance of a promising tank, various options for weapons, protection, as well as a complex of electronic equipment were considered. For example, a lot of time was taken away calculations and tests, during which it turned out the optimal caliber of the gun. According to the results of the mass of work, the “Soviet” version with millimeters 125 caliber was considered more suitable for a promising tank. The situation was similar in the same way with the other units of the tank, in which, as a result, several existing foreign, including Russian, developments were applied.

The existence of a new type of tank "Type 99", originally received the foreign designation "Type 88G", became known after one of the military parades 2000 year. Later it turned out that by the time of the parade the first batch of forty cars had already been ready. Externally, the “Type 99” tanks were significantly different from everything that was previously demonstrated by China, which immediately attracted the attention of foreign public. Over time, technical details as well as the characteristics of the new combat vehicle came from official and unofficial sources.

According to the most popular opinion, the basis for the “Type 99” was the Soviet / Russian T-72 tank, received by China from third countries. The hull of the original tank was slightly elongated and repacked. At the same time, the overall layout of the combat vehicle remained the classic one: the command and control unit, the combat one and the engine-transmission compartment, were placed one after the other. The dimensions of the German MTU WD396 diesel engine with 1200 horsepower, one of the main reasons for the lengthening of the tank hull. The dimensions of the imported engine did not allow it to fit into the hull of the T-72 or any other previous Chinese tank. With a combat mass of more than 50 tons, the tank "Type 99" has a specific power of about 23-25 hp. per ton. This allows the tank to accelerate on the highway to a speed of 65 km / h, and fuel is enough for a march of 600 kilometers in length. It is noteworthy that the engine and transmission units of the tank are made in the form of a single unit. It is alleged that in the field, its replacement takes no more than 40-50 minutes.

The chassis “Type 99” to some extent resembles the corresponding units of the T-72, but it has several differences. The Chinese tank is equipped with six support rollers on board, each of which has two rubber bands. Suspension is made on the basis of torsions. In addition, the suspension of the most loaded two front and two rear rollers on each side is additionally reinforced with hydraulic shock absorbers. Four supporting rollers are fixed above the support rollers. Due to the rear location of the MTO, the drive wheels are located in the stern of the tank. The transmission of torque from the wheel to the track is carried out with the help of bolt-on gear. The tracks of the tank “Type 99” are equipped with rubber-metal hinges.

The protection of the tank is based on composite blocks consisting of two steel plates and a filler between them. Composite armor collected frontal part of the hull and turret. Precise data on steel grades or aggregate type are not available. At the same time from official sources it is known that the level of protection of the frontal part of the body is equivalent to a homogeneous slab 500-600 millimeters thick. For the forehead of the tower, this parameter is equal to 700 millimeters. The type and class of shells used to compare composite and homogeneous armor were not disclosed. On tanks "Type 99" you can use dynamic protection systems that increase the level of protection of the machine.

The main armament of tanks "Type 99" is 125-mm smooth-bore gun. This gun was developed on the basis of the Soviet / Russian tank gun 2А46. According to the Chinese side, after the rework, the characteristics of the new tank gun exceed the data of the German RH-120 by a third, and the Russian 2A46М1 is inferior to it by 45%. Details of this comparison were not specified, which makes it possible to doubt the objectivity of the declared data. Guidance of the gun in the vertical plane is in the range from -6 to + 14 degrees. The gun is stabilized in two planes.

The main means of defeating enemy armored vehicles in the “Type 99” are armor-piercing feathered sub-caliber shells. Probably, such ammunition was created on the basis of the Israeli IMI M711 projectiles, which have an initial speed of the order of 1700 m / s and a penetrability index at the level of 600 millimeters of homogeneous armor. There is information about the creation by the Chinese of a new sub-caliber projectile, the initial speed of which is higher than that of M711 on 80-90 meters, and penetrability increased to 800-850 mm. In addition, the ammunition "Type 99" includes cumulative and fragmentation ammunition.

22 separate-sleeve shots of any type are placed in the cells of the automatic loader. This mechanism is a reworking of the Soviet construction used on the T-72. Automatic loader allows you to fire with a rate of fire up to 7-8 rounds per minute. Naturally, in practice, this parameter is much smaller. In addition to 22 shots in the cells of the automatic loader, another two dozen ammunition are stored in stacks inside the turret and the fighting compartment. They are loaded manually. At the same time, the tank commander or gunner must assume the duties of the loader, because the crew of the “Type 99” was reduced to three people due to the presence of the automatic loader.

At the beginning of the two thousand years, information appeared on the change in the status of the tank gun "Type 99". In China, an anti-tank guided missile was designed for use with it. Thus, the gun has become a weapon-launcher. According to reports, the Chinese tank missile complex was created on the basis of the Soviet / Russian system 9K119 "Reflex". Missile ammunition data is missing. The characteristics of the guided missiles are also unknown. Probably, their data partially or fully correspond to the characteristics of the complex 9K119. Auxiliary armament tanks "Type 99" consists of two machine guns. One of them - "Type 86" caliber 7,62 mm - is paired with a gun and has ammunition in two thousand rounds. Near the commander's turret there are fastenings for a regular W85 anti-aircraft machine gun of 12,7 caliber of millimeters. At the disposal of the arrow is ammunition from 300 cartridges. On the side surfaces of the tower are installed two five-barrel smoke grenade launchers.

The basis of the electronic equipment of the tank "Type 99" is a fire control system. It includes a dual-channel (television and thermal imaging) gunner's sight with a built-in rangefinder, a panoramic commander's sight, a two-plane stabilizer, a digital ballistic computer, and a set of environmental sensors. An interesting feature of the "Type 99" electronics is the ability to display images from both sights on the screens of both the commander and the gunner. In this way, the search for targets and targeting them is facilitated to some extent. weapons. Judging by the reports on the availability of guided weapons, it is possible to draw conclusions about the presence of the corresponding equipment on the tank.

It is worth recalling that the original "Reflex" uses missile guidance on a laser beam. One interesting technical tool is connected with laser technology on a new Chinese tank. In addition to booking and dynamic protection to protect the armored vehicle from being hit with anti-tank ammunition, the “Type 99” is equipped with the JD-3 active laser counter-action system (also known as ZM87). It works as follows. A set of sensors distributed over the surface of the tank, captures the exposure of the machine with a laser beam of a rangefinder or similar enemy system, and then gives the appropriate signal. Next, the emitter of the JD-3 system, together with the turret, rotates in the direction of the radiation source, after which the automation, using a relatively low-power laser beam, determines the location of the emitter of the enemy. The detected target can be attacked using barreled or guided weapons, but there is another interesting possibility. With the appropriate command, JD-3 is aimed at the enemy's optics, after which it instantly raises the radiation power by several hundred percent. A powerful beam damages the enemy's opto-electronic systems or blinds the crew of an enemy vehicle. At a distance of 10 kilometers, at least a temporary blinding of a person is possible. Because of this impact on the crews of enemy armored vehicles or anti-tank crews, the JD-3 system is a subject of controversy: the development and production of laser blinding systems was banned in the mid-nineties by a relevant UN decision.

Starting in 2000, Chinese industrialists have mastered the production of several modifications of the “Type 99” tank. To date, the troops have the following versions of this armored vehicle:
- "Type 99". The original tank of the late nineties;
- "Type 99G". Modernization of the beginning of the two thousandth years. The aim complex underwent serious changes, which received a number of new instruments. In addition, the laser countermeasure system was upgraded;
- "Type 99A." Further development of the option "G";
- "Type 99А1". From the previous versions of the tank differs updated dynamic protection. According to a number of sources, the tank “Type 99А1” for the first time in Chinese practice used multi-layer dynamic protection, significantly increasing the survivability of the machine on the battlefield. Also on this modification finally formed the dynamic protection of the rear of the tower. A special box-shaped farm is fixed on the back surface of the arable land, on which the “boxes” of dynamic protection are placed. This method of installation of protection blocks reduces the possibility of anti-tank ammunition due to the additional gap between the dynamic protection and the surface of the tower;
- "Type 99А2". From the previous versions of the tank differs in most of the electronic equipment. Radically updated communications and control, changed the composition of the sighting system, refined dynamic and active protection, etc. Earlier it was reported that this modification of the “Type 99” will be equipped with an HP 1500 engine. and a new gun caliber from 140 to 155 mm. Later it turned out that information about the change of the instrument was only a rumor, and information about the new engine has not yet been confirmed by official sources.

At the end of 2009, the chief designer of the 99 Type tank, Zhu Yusheng, gave an interview to the Chinese TV program “Great Masters”, which caused a flurry of discussions around the world. The designer, comparing the newest and most modern tanks, finally came to the conclusion that the “Type 99” is one of the three best cars of its class in the world. If in some way he is inferior, then only in certain characteristics. Therefore, the German Leopard 2A6 or the American Abrams M1A1 / A2 can only compete with him, but not exceed. Such statements by the designer simply could not fail to provoke a corresponding public reaction. During the discussion of the Chinese "super-tank" revealed a lot of technical details. From the available data, we can safely say that Zhu Yusheng succumbed to the temptation to use the wording of the family "has no analogues", which have long been the object of monotonous offensive jokes.

In general, the "Type 99" is a solid third-generation main tank, with both pluses and minuses. The advantages of the “Type 99” include good armament, close to optimal values ​​of the specific power and the system of active laser counteraction. Negative features of the tank are the incomprehensible situation with the guided weapons complex, not too high mobility, the dubious legal status of the JD-3 laser system, as well as the secondary design, armament and a number of systems in relation to the Soviet / Russian technology. In fact, "Type 99" is a specific mixture of modern developments and technologies that appeared in the late sixties of the last century. Of course, modernization of one or another piece of equipment or tank armament has certain prospects, but completely new and original solutions are needed to fundamentally improve the situation. So far, it seems, Chinese tank builders have nothing to offer, and therefore they can only boast of a unique and unmatched system of laser counteraction. Naturally, this is not enough to ensure real superiority over the enemy. Therefore, the "Type 99" remains quite good and, under certain circumstances, a promising main tank, lagging behind foreign competitors in some indicators.

On the materials of the sites:
http://army-technology.com/
http://sinodefence.com/
http://globalsecurity.org/
http://btvt.narod.ru/
http://otvaga2004.ru/
http://army-guide.com/
http://vestnik-rm.ru/
http://janes.com/

Comments

[Borat]

A Chinese tank is nothing more and nothing less, but simply a "Chinese" tank and that says it all.

[Skiff]

A striking example of the ability of Chinese engineers to create their own designs based on foreign developments is the newest tank PLA "Type 99" and its modifications.
No comments!!!

[cth; fyn]

Well, something like this

[BruderV]

Quote: cth; fyn

Well, something like this

Where do you get this popular poppies only?

[vorobey]

Quote: BruderV

Where do you get this popular poppies only?

not cheaper at all.

At the parade of 1999, only 18 tanks were shown, in recent years more than 100 vehicles have been produced. According to Western military analysts, the Type 99 can represent real competition for Russian and Western tanks in the international arms markets. However real China is not going to rearm its entire army with such machines because of the high cost and technical complexity, and they will be part of only elite units. Now tanks of this type are in service with two divisions of the Beijing Military District - 6 armored divisions in the 38 army and 8 armored divisions in the 26 army. At this stage, in China at the Factory 617 tank factory, two types of tanks are mass-produced: Type 88B, armed with a 105 mm gun and Type 88C, armed with a 125 mm gun. At the same factory, small-scale production of the Type 99 tank is in progress.

[Boris55]

So, China will win ... amers will end their shells

[Greyfox]

after the alteration, the characteristics of the new tank gun exceed the data of the German RH-120 by one third, and the Russian 2A46M1 is inferior to it by 45%.

And what immediately is not at 145%? I sincerely hope that the situation with their tanks (and other weapons) is the same as with their regional aircraft ARJ-21. A lot of bragging, but not very much by the results.

[Prohor]

And what are "gun characteristics" in general in this case? Maybe it is so much superior in recoil length and dispersion of shells ?!

[vorobey]

Quote: Greyfox

after the alteration, the characteristics of the new tank gun exceed the data of the German RH-120 by one third, and the Russian 2A46M1 is inferior to it by 45%.

And what immediately is not at 145%? I sincerely hope that the situation with their tanks (and other weapons) is the same as with their regional aircraft ARJ-21. A lot of bragging, but not very much by the results.

Only here is bad luck. they don’t bother how to make a remote control on an anti-aircraft machine gun. As before, the belt from the tower is oiled by hand.

and so the bulk was not specified, no data, not carried out.

[Snake4]

So with us it’s remote too, not in production models

[vorobey]

Quote: Snake4

So with us it’s remote too, not in production models

specify.

[Snake4]

http://army-news.ru/2012/09/distancionno-upravlyaemye-boevye-moduli/
only T-90MS, which is not a serial model

[PLO]

Utes clasp remote-controlled anti-aircraft machine guns appeared on the T-64 and T-80, they weren’t only on the T-72 (because it was originally conceived as a cheaper mass version of the T-64 with a traditional engine), and on the T-90 this flaw has been eliminated

I just don’t know if they put remote control on the extreme upgrades of the T-72B2 / B3

[Snake4]

I agree with the T-80, I made a mistake, but a little:
"... on the serial tank, on the basis of the commander's hatch, an anti-aircraft 12,7-mm machine gun NSVT" Utes "was also installed. The commander is firing from it, being at this time outside the booked volume."
"Compared to the" jet "T-80U, the diesel tank (T-80UD) had slightly worse dynamic characteristics ... In addition, the vehicle received a remote control of the Utes anti-aircraft machine gun."

T-64:
A remotely controlled anti-aircraft machine gun was mounted with the T-64A (1969)

I agree that I was mistaken in the expression, but nevertheless I will develop the idea further - on at least half of the tanks in service by the year 91 there was no distance.

For today:
total 6500 T-80 of all modifications, of which:
"The plant completely switched to the production of T-80UD tanks. The production of 6TD-1 engines increased. In 1986, 62 engines were manufactured, in 1987 - 99, in 1988 - 183. In total, 1986 engines were produced during the period 1990-776. the best divisions of the Soviet Army, in particular, the Kantemirovsk division, were equipped with tanks. In total, about 700 T-80UD tanks were produced. "
500 T-90 of all modifications
9500 T-72B and T-72BA with VDZ "Contact-5" and DZ "Contact-1", 3000 T-72 in storage, as of 2010

Since 64 are actively disposed of, we will not consider them.

The question is how many tanks are in service, and the scauluo are stored in warehouses is rather complicated, but my idea is that in a large-scale conflict it is necessary to take into account all combat vehicles capable of fighting, and not just in constant readiness brigades.
Altogether, even today, more than half of potentially combat-ready tanks do not have remote control of the commander’s machine gun, and nothing has anything to do with automatic stabilized machine gun (otherwise, only when standing), which allows them to climb out only to replenish ammunition.

[vorobey]

Quote: olp

at extreme upgrades T-72B2 / B3

Oleg. do not set. UVZ so far only remakes a slingshot. and the rest of the BTRZ are limited to the task. only kapitalka and repair.

In the spring I will go to visit again, maybe that has changed.

[PLO]

Oleg. do not set. UVZ so far only remakes a slingshot. and the rest of the BTRZ are limited to the task. only kapitalka and repair.

In the spring I will go to visit again, maybe that has changed.

sorry, although probably this is not the most important thing in the tank)

[vorobey]

Quote: Snake4

only T-90MS, which is not a serial model

Yes, but what about the T80, and the T-64 in due time. they just were not in China.

[Snake4]

Read the link that I cited above
without a stabilizer, at least this is not a full-fledged weapon.

[vorobey]

Quote: Snake4

without a stabilizer, at least this is not a full-fledged weapon

Do you understand what you are talking about? Why then dragged the T90?

[Snake4]

Of course not.
I don’t understand, I don’t understand and I don’t know that in a battle the fire is conducted not only from a place.
According to my humble ideas, they generally dig into tanks because they don’t need a stabilizer on a cannon for what’s why.
I won’t repeat it 10 times, did you ignore the link or did you just stupidly pull it?

[vorobey]

Quote: Snake4

because why they need a stabilizer on the gun - I can’t imagine.

sometimes you have to attack. And then the stabilizer allows you to fire on the go and not as before from a place and short stops. Because at the time of immobilization the tank is the most vulnerable. so briefly.

Quote: Snake4

stupidly came

probably troll. Do you have data on the supply of T90 MS to our army?

By the way, I did not confuse the remote control with a combat remote module.

[Kars]

Quote: Greyfox

which is not immediately 145%?

(2A46 on T-64, T-72, 2A46M-1 on T-80, 2A46M-4 on T-90).

Quote: Greyfox

and the Russian 2A46M1

come to believe in the word. Believe that the T-90 has a more powerful gun.

And on the topic of the article --- The main thing is not to underestimate.
Better to prepare for the worst option than hoping that the tank is weak like a Chinese screwdriver for 90 hryvnias.

[vorobey]

Quote: Kars

And on the topic of the article --- The main thing is not to underestimate.

Hi, hi.

Here I am tormented by a question from everyday experience.

escorting a convoy on an old 64 with an engine power of 680 horses we issued 65 km. they could no longer because the car was already uncontrollable on the concrete road.

A Chinese man with a power of 1000 horses produces 65 km of the same.

difference in weight is 5000kg.

the power density of mine in the Chinese is higher.

Why?

[Kars]

Quote: vorobey

Why?

Most likely an electronic limiter.
(I can also say that to annoy the Gurkhanists - the T-64 is a super tank.)

During the tests, Abrams Prada still accelerated M1A1 to 100 km per hour. And in the performance characteristics it was slower.

We can conclude that all countries slightly underestimate the official characteristics, and some, on the contrary, overestimate. So, the average people do not recognize the real truth.

[vorobey]

Quote: Kars

T-64 is a super tank

well, not really super since two of us fastened in a swamp 64, fastened by a train, could not be pulled out. and 72 alone pulled calmly.

5 TDF is not a very reliable engine, as it was launched in the summer with a heater. the battery went slightly gray.

Guska flew with me while driving a young one (I pulled a little tension - catch the surprise)

But everything else is only a plus except for the MOH - double work when the pallets in the MOH remain and are not extracted. The next time you load the pallet, first remove it and then load the shell with the charge.

.

Quote: Kars

what would the Gurkhanists annoy

You know I have no authority

[Kars]

Quote: vorobey

You know I have no authority

Well, so am I not for you, but for the Gurkhanists))))

I have already said that the good news for me is that the T-64 model was launched by the Chinese manufacturer Trumpeter.

[vorobey]

Quote: Kars

T-64 began to produce

Will your dream come true? fill up the collection?

do not drive just over 65 km.

[leon-iv]

Kars from my monitor ZHYR poured from trolling.

[Akim]

Quote: vorobey

we issued 65 km.

Do you really need more? ETOGES IS NOT A FERRARI.

[vorobey]

Quote: Akim

do you need more?

Akim did you go to the column at least once? The law of the column if the front is 45 and the distance is 30-50 m, then the latter fly not only 65 because the column is an accordion. And at that time we had the whole column on the rubber we were alone on the tracks. Head and trailing tank.

so Kars is close to the truth. restrictions simply because the machine becomes uncontrollable. You can’t just stop 40-50 tons at a speed of 60 km and on the ground, but on a concrete track it’s a shell.

[Akim]

Quote: vorobey

Akim did you go to the column at least once?

Walked. True to BMP. Of the chariots, there were only UAZs and Arrows, and there were still Wasps (I don’t remember that). Therefore, the speed was probably acceptable. There weren’t any problems on the 100 km marches, neither we nor the tank battalion.

[Snake4]

This is ordinary marketing, and internal marketing, aimed at their citizens, and not at foreign buyers who can compare. After all, the Chinese are not going to reveal all the secrets and design features to other countries and all the comments of the designers are made precisely to maintain the image of the invincibility of their weapons.
Our designers do the same - read the news about the creation of a new modification - each is 2-8,5 times larger than the base model! They would also say by what indicator specifically - they wouldn’t have prices;)

[LaGlobal]

hmm ... no words.

[washi]

Taught on my own head

[Witch]

Informative...

[BruderV]

Yes, all the Chinese trolls are level 80. They showed photos, they said that this product surpasses all world analogues, no details about the tests and real characteristics. So sit and turnips bluff bluff or not. Directly ideal material for trolling in tyrnet. Right now, this will actually begin. But for some reason it seems to me that if the tank was really on the level, then the Chinese would illuminate the test results all over the world in order to scare the west, and in order to gain their share of the arms market. And so only Bangladesh is their technique, and a couple of countries are buying. But at the same time in their press they are already writing about the aircraft of almost the 7th generation. It seems to me that narrow-eyed just hit the informational yoyu.

[Armavir]

Hmm, to learn too fast, even if you lied now with the characteristics, then in any case, after 5 years, it’s worth waiting for the really the best tank in the world

[vorobey]

Valery, a fellow countryman?

Not a single copy has yet surpassed the original.

[Prohor]

Yes?! And where are the Mk I tanks and Farman planes now? After World War II, the Japanese were looked upon as condescendingly as they are now at the Chinese ...

[BruderV]

Quote: Armavir

in any case, after 5 years, it’s really worth waiting for the very best tank in the world

By that time, we will hope that Armata will be blind. Until they create a KAZ similar to the Jewish TROPHY, which, judging by the declared characteristics, generally makes the tank invulnerable to ATGMs and grenade launchers. They can not even dream of a better tank. To date, only South Koreans have created a 4th generation tank. Modest such guys do not trumpet the whole world about it. Nothing is heard about the Kiai projects of such a tank.

[Mairos]

None of the KAZs will provide the tank with invulnerability from ATGMs)) It all depends on the type of ATGMs and where this ATGM got. )))

[BruderV]

Are these your personal conclusions? You KAZ with DZ not beguiled? KAZ KNOBS flying projectiles. Judging by the claimed characteristics, Trophy strikes ATGMs from all angles, including from above, including with a preliminary false projectile. It has automatic reloading and is practically safe for the surrounding infantry. So for the enemy there remains only aimed bombing on stationary tanks or tank duels.

[PLO]

practically safe for the surrounding infantry.

but there are big doubts about this statement, unlike the Arena, whose special ammunition strikes the target with fragments from top to bottom, in Trophy they shoot towards the projectile and, accordingly, the danger zone expands many times

[BruderV]

This is nothing more than your conclusions. The stream of fragments is narrowly focused and does not expand as it moves away from the tank. The arena is the 80s and because of its slaughter characteristics, the military is still afraid to take it into service. This is precisely the stream of fragments into the ground that is the most dangerous, right up to the point that the cannon can be cut, there is no talk of infantry near the tank.

[PLO]

The stream of fragments is narrowly focused and does not expand as it moves away from the tank.

it is nothing more than your conclusions
the stream of fragments cannot but expand as they move away, the only question is how much, and therefore the potential danger of a stray fragment at a relatively large distance always remains, unlike the Arena

This is precisely the stream of fragments into the ground that is the most dangerous, right up to the point that the cannon can be cut, there is no talk of infantry near the tank.

you have interesting logic
I do not claim that the Arena is devoid of flaws, but only all these flaws are inherent in Trophy and other KAZ
In your opinion, splinters of special ammunition threaten the infantry and can set fire to the cannon, but doesn’t the infantry pose any danger to the detonating projectile / missile and can it walk around Merkav at full height? this is ridiculous

this interesting video has a lot of interesting things, but I didn’t notice the infantry around the mercenaries

[Snake4]

The Chinese studied reverse engineering, they went to the smallest part of the least resistance - why develop their development. When can you become a global exporter through cheap labor and get it for free?
And now, when they have matured personnel capable of understanding the principles of construction and technology, it is quite feasible to create their own samples, so that they will certainly go away from copying to create truly new original samples - they need money to occupy the top.

[vorobey]

Quote: Snake4

they will certainly go away from copying to create truly new original samples - in order to occupy the top they need them, and there are funds.

yes there is other than thinking outside the box. copying implies stereotyping and not creativity.
sometimes communicating with the Chinese at exhibitions, they sometimes don’t represent what functions the machines they represent have.

I will say more, their eyes open when they sometimes find out that they made two separate from one of their machines.

[Snake4]

This does not mean that they are all like that.
A separate enterprise that copies heavy machinery is not all of China
Look towards aviation, there are already examples.

[vorobey]

Quote: Snake4

Look towards aviation, there are already examples.

Give examples.

[Snake4]

read the news
If you are not familiar with the current state of China's development, then arguing on this topic is useless without a minimum amount of information.

[vorobey]

Quote: Snake4

read the news

young and early.

In the news, like that. Where are your examples?

[Akim]

Quote: vorobey

Give examples

J-10B wave is an acceptable fighter. He was not slammed, but bought his prototype from the Israelites.

[vorobey]

Quote: Akim

bought his prototype

Well this is not interesting. let's give our pure.

in aviation, I do not rummage so you can prick. I believe if you can’t verify it.

[Akim]

Quote: vorobey

Well this is not interesting. let's give our pure.

From the idea to the logical end. It’s not like that. What for?

[vorobey]

Quote: Akim

It’s not like that. What for?

Akim and I do not like this to you, but to Snek.

[Snake4]

This method of communication, with the expectation from the interlocutor of complete detailed information, with chewing, and then subsequent taunting of inaccuracies, is your hobby.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20
http://topwar.ru/11814-kitayskiy-istrebitel-5-pokoleniya.html

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-31
http://topwar.ru/20593-novyy-kitayskiy-istrebitel-sovershil-pervyy-polet.html

I think the comment thread is closed. Thank.

[vorobey]

Quote: Snake4

mocking inaccuracies - your hobby

You started to be rude first. Try to chat with them a bit longer.

I don’t know much either and am able to admit that I am not right. rather than pushing and verbiage.

about J20
• Almost all observers note that the fighter came out large: for an aircraft to gain superiority in the air, it is clearly overstretched. It is obvious that it’s premature and difficult to talk about the tactical purpose of a test platform demonstrator, but if you look for the most likely use of a combat vehicle of similar parameters, then this is most likely an attack fighter-bomber like the Russian Su-34.

• Presumably, the “Black Eagle” is loaded with anti-ship functions (which may determine the potential size of the internal compartment), possibly with the installation of large-sized heavy S-802 missiles or their analogues.

"I do not recognize you in makeup"

• Aerodynamic layout of the aircraft immediately produces several sources of borrowing. Firstly, the “hand” of the Russian aviation industry is clearly visible. Some solutions are meticulously copied from domestic “technology demonstrators” of the 90s: the S-37 “Golden Eagle” of the company “Sukhoi” and the “MiG 1.42” - a competing Mikoyan machine made in the framework of the project of a promising multi-functional fighter (IFI).

• Secondly, the design of the bow reveals a "close relationship" with the only fifth-generation serial fighter today - the F-22 Raptor. It comes to the ridiculous: for example, the non-binding cabin lamp is made almost one-to-one, as in the American "predator", down to small details visible in the pictures. But upon careful consideration of the layout of the air intakes, another plane immediately pops up in the visual memory - the American F-35, which has not yet entered the series.

• If there are still some reasons for concluding the origin of visually observable layout decisions, then the most contradictory assumptions about the “stuffing” of the aircraft are sometimes made. So, a lot of questions are caused by the J-20 engine block. Initially, the Western media claimed that the aircraft was nothing like the Russian AL-41F-1C, aka “product 117C” - the standard engine of the Su-35C fighter. However, after analyzing the photographs of the tail section, this assumption disappeared: the nozzle configuration clearly did not correspond to the well-known images of the “117th”. And there is no information about the actual deliveries of this unit to China.

• Somewhat helped in the search for the officialdom of the Celestial Empire: a published message on rewarding the creators of engines for the aircraft J-20. It states that we are talking about the WS-10G - the latest modification of the "tenth" family, the Chinese functional analogue of the Russian engines AL-31F. The G series differs from its predecessors by an increased traction up to 14,5 tons and the new FADEC block (electronic digital engine control system) of its own production

[Snake4]

Nobody started to be rude, do not distort.
The rest I said above.
Airplanes - but even where the layout comes from, similar tasks give rise to similar solutions - compare PAK FA and F22.
Maybe the Chinese can’t imagine why they need such a machine, and in Russia they can make 2 of it? Or do you have evidence that these aircraft are made on the basis of models trapped in China? So you will find the whole world community with sensational statements.

[vorobey]

Snake4,

Listen up drove ah?

Convinced well done Chinese. satisfied?

[Zynaps]

my friend, for a better understanding of how R&D and production work, read the excellent book by A. Beck "Talent. Berezhkov's Life". it is a film, but it was written by a talented writer (the author of one of the best books about the war "Volokolamskoe Highway"), and the book is based on the biography of the outstanding Soviet aircraft engine designer Mikulin. in the book it is beautifully painted what it means to copy someone else's. it is constantly trailing behind. there will be an idea in what agony the Soviet aviation industry, the first Soviet powerful aircraft engine, was born.

[Akim]

Good article compared to previous descriptions of this tank. With the weather back, in the ZTZ99A2 it was decided not to increase the caliber, but to add the length to L = 52.

[vorobey]

Good day Akim. Have you noticed something new?

[Akim]

vorobey,
Welcome.
In the article? In principle, I read it in another source (Pakistani), but there everything in the forum is inconsistent about him, and here the whole article, as I said, is not bad. If only the opinion of the Russian tankers would be heard, who got acquainted with this tank in the exercises.

[vorobey]

Quote: Akim

who got acquainted with this tank during exercises

Akim, are you serious now? It's hard to create, but ruining a legend is fast.
I’m hating that someone managed to at least look inside. although there were mud in my network pictures where inside through the paint rust is climbing.

[Akim]

vorobey,
I know there were. The Chinese themselves wrote about it. It's just that if they are acting officers, they hardly care about Neta. There are few other worries. And about the legend. I'll tell you why I talked before only on those forums, not just in order to tighten up languages. I don't like our bias or Western bias. Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese people know that they have bad things and openly admit it. And you read Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, etc. forums in the West: "We are the best (in terms of technology), the rest are shit."

[vorobey]

Quote: Akim

the Chinese know that they have a bad thing and openly admit it

and in the article it is clearly visible.

back to yesterday's topic. Just if you’re here recently in a search engine, type stupidly T72 and the site will give you all the discussions about it. everything that was here in the topics. Read the comments. shit pours from both their own (who have never dealt with technology) and from strangers, since there are enough pimply and others like them.

I really came across both 62, 64 and 72. I have something to share and there is a point of view that I advocate, up to massacre. there is a vision of why 90 is not entering the troops now. There is a vision why they will build Kurgan at the new plant and not at the old one and so on. the inadequate views of some comrades scare. as yesterday the Basque showed an RPG video point blank.

[Prohor]

Have something to share - share it! At least listed. And then the opinions of journalists are tired, right ...

[vorobey]

Quote: Prokhor

Have something to share - share it!

I can only share and shared already on our three machines. Chinese to compare by TTX?

[Alex 241]

Here is a photo! ...........

http://vpk.name/news/63726_novyii_kitaiskii_tank_nashel_novuyu_nishu.html

[Akim]

It is visible Chinese blocks DZ.

[Alex 241]

Chinese tank Type 99

[Nechai]

Met here such a shot. Did any of the members of the forum work with such and for what purposes was the shooting test conducted?
125mm 3VP6 tank shot with a practical armor-piercing firing projectile 3P35 (active part 3P31)
Designed for training tank crews when firing from a D-81 tank gun (T-64A, T-72, T-80, T-90 tanks).
The shell used the standard BOPS 3BM22 body, with the replacement of the head to increase air resistance. The design of the head of the projectile ensures that its trajectory coincides with the trajectory of the combat BOPS to a range of 2000 m, after which there is a sharp braking and falling of the projectile.
The main propelling charge is 4ZH40 / 4ZH52.
Features:
Shot mass ……………………… 19,5 kg
Projectile weight with add. charge (3P35) 9,5 kg
The mass of the active part (3P31) .............. 5,2 kg
The mass of the main propelling charge (4ZH40 / 4ZH52) .10 kg
Initial speed ... ... 1830 m / s
The maximum range of the active part (elevation angle 10 degrees) ... 9000 m
Range of operational temperatures WITH
Master device "expandable type" (3 sectors). Caliber stabilizer consists of 5 blades. A tracer is installed in the tail of the projectile (at the base of the stabilizer).
The shot is packed in a wooden box. Dimensions of the drawer 823x544x295 mm. The mass of the box with a shot ... 45 kg
The elements of the shot (a shell with an additional charge of 3P35 and the main propelling charge of 4Zh40 / 4Zh52) are packed in sealed galvanized metal pencil cases of a cylindrical shape.

[vorobey]

Nechai,

Never. either practical or full-time OFS.
hello Valera.

[Nechai]

"... resembles the corresponding units T-72, but it has a number of differences. Chinese tank equipped with six road wheels on board (?)each of which has two rubber bandages (?). The suspension is made on the basis of torsion bars. (?)
That's not the difference! The comrades had to lengthen the case (from the golden maximum ratio, width / length = 1 / 1,5 clearly jumped out). Hence the other arrangement of track rollers. And a shock absorber on the 5th rink. The box is heavy. And shikoko to stomp it to the cherished 65km / h is clearly not recorded, as the path MUST be without malleable lifters.
"... the development and production of laser blinding systems was banned in the mid-nineties by a relevant UN decision." - pure pharisaism! It is not humane to blind the enemy, it is more humane to overwhelm him, having laid the many lives of his soldiers! By the way, Israel has systems similar to JD-3. And the beginning was laid by "Sighting Platoons" in the SA. KTD-1 and even more so, directly for this purpose, the KTD-2 on the BMP-2, were the development of this idea. But the greatest humanists, the spouses Gorbachev and EBN, rejected such "barbarian" weapons ...

[Akim]

But the Chinese just pick up "little" tankers!

[vorobey]

Quote: Akim

But the Chinese just pick up "little" tankers!

three are fighting, and three are resting in the rack?

Tal's ideas come to life.

[Nechai]

Quote: Akim

But the Chinese just pick up "little" tankers!

You didn’t see the northerners under 2 meters tall ... And the boy is obviously from the southern coastal provinces. By the way, we also had a limitation (in the past tense since they are currently absent) of tanker growth in 176cm. Our friend studied under 190cm, oh, and it’s not sweet to him in the car, that he was 64ke, that he had 72ke. But the other in 160cm like mercury and twist moment penetrated everywhere!

[Akim]

Nechai,
Taking into account the fact that they go on an urgent appointment as a holiday (remember our "Maxim Perepelitsa" - there are no problems with short southerners.

[leon-iv]

Well Duc is a chance for the poor.
For educated Han people, this is not at all respected.

[Tan4ik]

I saw on YouTube in 3D Merkava MK5. The amazing thing.

[Evrepid]

Terrible car can’t say anything .. There is no point in talking about shortcomings, but you should mention pros.
1. The number of these machines (possible) is very large
2. Modernization of old cars is possible because many units are the same
3. Overfilling with electronics, and the best interaction in the group with skillful actions.


so at a glance the main advantages ... if you delve then there will be more.

[BruderV]

In the style of the Uzbek akyns - what I think - I sing, it’s harmful to turn on the brain. Rumors about the quantity and electronics from the agency, one grandmother said. Which units are the same when the engine is German, and previous Chinese tanks have a 105mm cannon?

[MacTavish]

there is one joke. I don’t remember exactly, but somehow.

Ours sold a license to the Chinese fighter. Well, I’m launching it in a series. collect means as it should according to the documentation and ... it turns out ... a locomotive. Well, to ours what kind of nonsense what type of sold. ours explain to them: Well, everything’s right with the steam locomotive and it turns out and then, until ready, with a file until ready

[Crang]

Yes - cool tank. If our T-72B can cope with the Abrams, at the very least, I don’t know how to cope with this Type. It has a combat laser system, while the T-72B has neither displays nor filters to protect optics from powerful laser radiation.

[Kair501]

not well, the Chinese are still far from the level of our t-90ms, thank God, but they can catch up with time, thank God they took up the armature, I remember I watched the transfer to UVZ with all the components in stock 1 tank was built a week and there were a lot of them on the line so for a couple years you can fine tune

[Crang]

Little problem. We do not have the T-90MS in our troops. And the T-90MS plan to supply for export. Those Chinese will be equipped with them. And we have in the troops T-72B, T-72BM and a little T-90A. How to fight the Type-72 on the T-99B? Personally, only one option comes to my mind - shooting from an ambush by Type of Uram because they work on the principle of a laser path and do not require direct exposure to the target. And in the oncoming battle at the middle distances of the khan. I turned on the LD to measure the distance and got a bunch of powerful laser. Crants are optics and can even the eyes of the gunner (and commander).

[BruderV]

There are the latest modifications of the T-72B, which will be even better than the T-90. Slingshot for example.

[Crang]

Something I have not heard about being in service with the Russian army of modifications of the T-72B, which are better than the T-90 (which is also a modification of the T-72). There is a strong impression that all these ministers-figurists are directly interested in the collapse of our army. As for the tanks, here the situation generally smacks of some kind of mockery. We are used to the fact that our tanks are the best in the world, but today, unfortunately, this is no longer the case. And someone seems to be making an effort to ensure that everything remains so in the future. Let's try to figure it out. From the late 30s to the early 80s of the 20th century, our tanks were the best in the world. The period coincided with the greatest flourishing of the USSR. In the late 30s, the KV-1 heavy tank and the T-34 medium tank were unmatched on the battlefield. After a small dip in the 42nd, the KV-85, T-34-85 and IS-2 regained leadership in world tank building. After the war and until the 50s, the IS-3 and its modifications were the best tank in the world. From the 50s to the mid-60s, the T-10 tore up everyone, especially its modification T-10M. After that, the palm passed to the world's first main battle tank T-64A and the T-72, which appeared soon. Modifications of these tanks, coupled with the T-80, ensured superiority until the early 80s. Then the NATO countries received new models of tanks: M1 "Abrams", "Leopard-2", "Leclerc", "Merkava MK.II", etc. The decrepit USSR had nothing to answer them. The modernization of the T-72 and T-80 improved their capabilities, but the former superiority was no longer there. With a huge delay, the T-90 was adopted, the number of the latest modifications of which is the T-90A and today is in service with very little. Moreover, this tank already needs to be changed. During this time, our design bureaus have developed many excellent samples of armored vehicles: "Black Eagle", T-72B2 "Slingshot", Object-195, now here is "Armata" and T-90MS. And what? We hear all the time: "Soon", "Soon", "Next year", "By the end of next year", etc. After that, many years pass and nothing changes - the "ageless" T-72B continues to remain the basis of our tank forces. None of the proposed designs were ever adopted. There is some rubbish that declares the newest model of the tank "obsolete", "Soviet modernization", etc. As a result, all that we have today is the modernization of the T-72B to the level of the T-72BM, which, contrary to popular belief, does not surpass the T-90A and still lags behind Western tanks in a number of important elements. So if I find out that the "Armata" will be stolen in this way, then this fact will not shock me - I have seen this many times and all the illusions regarding the "concern for the country's defense capability" of our government have long passed.