The death of the transport "Armenia" on November 7, 1941. Aviation of the USSR and the Wehrmacht

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The death of the transport "Armenia" on November 7, 1941. Aviation of the USSR and the Wehrmacht


True, in response to accusations from the People's Commissar of Morskoy fleet P. P. Shirshov already has a report from the People's Commissar of the Navy N. G. Kuznetsov, in which he substantiates the losses of transport ships:



“If the Black Sea Fleet had a sufficiently powerful fighter aviation, one must assume that there would not have been such large losses. A particular danger in the Black Sea is posed by enemy torpedo-carrying aircraft, which cause particular damage to our transport fleet.

This aviation operates not only near the coast, but also far from our airfields. Anti-aircraft artillery of ships without interaction with fighter aircraft is also far from a sufficient means to combat enemy aircraft.

If we consider that on the Black Sea there are no more than 2-3 cruisers and 7-8 destroyers in service at any given moment, then it is obvious that this insufficient weapon is available in very limited quantities.

We do not have patrol ships, that is, warships whose main purpose is convoying, on the Black Sea. When weather permits, boats are used.

However, since the boats have very weak anti-aircraft weapons and are not very seaworthy, their use does little to alleviate the situation.”

In general, a correct explanation. But at the same time, the future nature of combat operations on sea lanes began to appear during the war in Spain of 1936–1939.

And it became especially clear with the beginning of the Second World War, where the warring parties pay great attention to the destruction of the enemy’s transport communications at sea, for which they use not only surface and submarine combat ships, but also naval aviation, including torpedo-carrying aircraft. Apparently, the USSR was unable to draw the proper conclusions or simply did not have time.

As a result, the naval bases of the Black Sea Fleet at the beginning of the war had sufficient “ground” air defense. But the losses of the Red Army in aircraft and the critical reduction of the airfield network led to the overwhelming superiority of the Luftwaffe in the air, both due to the number, better tactical and technical characteristics of the aircraft, and due to combat experience.

As a result, the transport ships of the Black Sea Fleet suffered such monstrous losses, while there was not a single naval battle in the Black Sea theater of military operations during the entire war. The warships of the Black Sea Fleet, together with the flagship - the battleship "Paris Commune" - with its 12 305-mm main caliber guns, had no one to fight with at sea. But the fleet was unable to protect the transport ships either.


However, questions about military development strategy are no longer the competence of the commander of the Black Sea Fleet. Problems of the state of naval aviation (fighter, attack, missile-carrying units, aircraft for illuminating surface and underwater situations) are becoming increasingly relevant in our turbulent times.

After the death of the motor ship "Lenin" of the Fleet Command, Oktyabrsky convened a meeting at which he raised the question of the responsibility of those organizing the safety of navigation of transport ships and those responsible for it. The meeting was attended by Oktyabrsky himself, a member of the Black Sea Fleet military council Kulakov, the Black Sea Fleet chief of staff Eliseev, the head of the operational department of the Black Sea Fleet headquarters Zhukovsky, commander-operator Nesterov and the head of the Black Sea Fleet VOSO.

But instead of making organizational conclusions on personalities, analyzing mistakes made and ways to solve the problem at hand, it was decided to create a special department, calling it the “Communications Department”. Captain of the second rank A.G. Vasiliev was appointed head of the department.

This decision created even greater confusion, duplication of functions and responsibilities, which replaced qualified, specially trained officials of the VOSO department. Friction and confusion between these units of the Black Sea Fleet even reached Anastas Mikoyan, deputy chairman of the Council of People's Commissars, authorized by the State Defense Committee (GOKO) for supply.

But no proper decisions were made anyway. The issue itself was closed in the second half of 1942 after the cessation of the defense of Sevastopol, the retirement of transport ships, the practical cessation of military transport on the Black Sea and the reduction of fleet operations to raid and landing operations.

After the Germans broke through into the territory of Crimea, the convoy routes were moved closer to the middle of the Black Sea, parallel to Tuapse. Ships and transport vessels after passing the FVK (in Tuapse there were northern and southern ones) set a course of 270° and followed to the longitude of Yalta, with a further approach to the shore, determining their location by coastal landmarks and moving along the coastline with the entrance to the eastern FVK 1.

Single low-speed small transports, as a rule, followed without cover with the approach to Cape Sarych, with a call and further expectation of pilotage escort by OVR vessels. The average passage time at a speed of 8–10 knots was about 35 hours. Navigation difficulties were associated with a long, directionless passage in the open sea.


Scheme of vessel movement according to coordinates from the Logbooks


Museum of the Black Sea Shipping Company, Odessa

Studying the logbooks of minesweepers and destroyers of the Black Sea Fleet, I was struck by the practical absence of mandatory records of the ship's movement (course, speed (propeller revolutions), coordinates of the ship's location). These records appear only when a shift is handed over/accepted, and then in rare cases.

In one of the log books, the newly arrived commander of the ship writes in red pencil a remark to the watch officer for poor discipline in keeping the ship's log, sends him to the beginning, where there are rules for keeping it, and threatens him with all sorts of punishments. Several watches are recorded as expected, even the strength and direction of the wind are recorded. Then again there is confusion and a red pencil, which, apparently, is soon running out, or it (the pencil) is simply thrown overboard.

The personnel of the boats and ships were poorly prepared to repel air attacks; they practically did not know how to shoot at diving aircraft. The 45-mm 21-K cannons available on ships and transports did not meet the air defense requirements. Even with the timely detection of aircraft and before the end of the attack, the crews of the ships had time to fire only 5–8 shots with good training.


Merchant fleet ships did not wear camouflage; they began to be used only in 1943. The transport captains had no practical experience of sailing as part of a convoy, and were completely unaware of the rules of maneuvering in formation and evading torpedo and aircraft attacks.

Most of the transports were slow-moving. Steam ships such as “Tashkent” and “Kommunist” had a speed of 4–6 knots. The faster Shakhtar and Kursk, having a speed of 6–7 knots, following an anti-submarine zigzag as part of the convoy, lost 1,5–2 knots, as a result of which the general speed of the convoy was reduced to 4 knots.

The mast of most merchant ships was very high, and the vehicles of transport ships smoked heavily, which made them good targets for enemy aircraft.


VNOS service

The personnel of the Airborne Surveillance Warning and Communications Service (VNOS) at the beginning of the war had low qualifications, due to the small number of exercises in the pre-war years and insufficient provision of material and technical means (albums of silhouettes of enemy aircraft, powerful high-aperture binoculars).

Detection of aircraft was initially carried out by ear, then visually using field binoculars. The visual detection range of aircraft, under favorable weather conditions and the proper elevation of the post, averaged 18–20 km. As a result, a large number of enemy aircraft were not identified not only at night, but also during the day. There were frequent cases of air defense systems targeting their own aircraft.

The low qualifications of the ship's air defense posts, the presence of radio transmitters only on the flight commander's aircraft (the wingmen had only receivers), and insufficient interaction between ships and the Black Sea Fleet aviation often led to ships and vessels firing at their escort aircraft. Which prompted the cover planes to stay at a considerable distance from the protected ships.

At the beginning of July 1941, two RUS-2 Redut type radar stations arrived in Sevastopol, one of which was redeployed to the Caucasus in December.


The accuracy of the target coordinates provided was insufficient, especially at night.
According to technical indicators, the target detection range is up to 100 km with an accuracy of 1 km, the total operating time of the station could not exceed 18 hours a day. Therefore, she worked with short starts, making half-hour stops between them. The station operated until the last day of the defense of Sevastopol and was destroyed by its crew.

Air Force


At the beginning of the war, the 62nd Fighter Aviation Brigade of the Black Sea Fleet Air Force was based on the territory of Crimea. Consisting of the 8th, 9th, 32nd air regiments with the main aircraft in service I-16 (one hundred and nineteen units), I-15 and I-153 “Chaika” (ninety units), MIG-3 ( fourteen pieces). At the same time, a large percentage of aircraft and their weapons had significantly exhausted service life, which hampered the combat work of brigade units. There were 221 pilots, of which 87 had permission to fly at night.

There is a depressing practice of frequent transfers of aircraft and pilots from one air unit to another, often several times. This led to pilots’ ignorance of the features of piloting and armament of the assigned aircraft. The new additions to the brigade had low theoretical knowledge and little flight hours. There is an example when out of 60 pilots who arrived, only 49 were able to somehow carry out a combat mission, both during the day and in simple conditions. The qualifications of the technicians also left much to be desired.

The core of the I-16 and I-153 air brigade was inferior to the enemy in armament (the most popular I-153 series was produced with four ShKAS machine guns with a 7,62 mm rifle cartridge), speed and rate of climb. As a result, fighters were not always able to gain altitude in a timely manner, catch up and destroy the enemy, which contributed to the very low efficiency of Black Sea Fleet aviation.

In 1941, for every one German plane shot down, there were up to 98 of our sorties; in 1944 there were only 45 sorties. To combat enemy aircraft on communications and protect our transports, as a rule, a flight of I-153s was allocated, which had a short duration of time in the air - 1,5 hours. If time and situation permitted, additional gas tanks were hung under the wings, which increased the total time in the air to 2,5–3 hours at a speed of 180–200 km/h (and this at a vehicle speed of 10–15 km/h).


And-16


And-153

According to the “Instructions for covering ships and transports during daytime crossings with fighters,” when an enemy attacked, additional tanks were dropped, and the task was set to divert the enemy aircraft from the combat course. Further persecution was strictly prohibited.

In 1942–1943 PE-2, PE-3, DB-3 bombers began to be used actively and more effectively to cover transports. Since they had powerful cannon and machine gun armament, good visibility, low speed, plus a large supply of fuel, which allowed them to stay in the air for up to 5–6 hours.

Of the total number of sorties, transport escorts accounted for about 15%. At the beginning of the defense of Sevastopol there were two airfields - “Kulikovo Field”, from which light aircraft operated, and “Chersonese Lighthouse”, suitable for all types of aircraft.

In accordance with the situation at the end of October - beginning of November 1941, all wheeled aircraft were consolidated into a ground aviation group (SAG). Guard Colonel Yumashev was appointed commander of the group.

The disadvantage of operational reports and intelligence reports, on the basis of which combat work was based, was the lack of data on the actions of ground troops, both the enemy and units of the Red Army. All combat orders to the SAG were received in the form of a combat mission for the day. The Group headquarters never wrote combat orders to departing aircraft due to lack of time.

Combat orders to cover the passage of ships and transports came, as a rule, from the Operational Duty Chief of the Black Sea Fleet headquarters to the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet Air Force. The officer on duty assigned the task to the headquarters of the aviation regiment or directly to the commanders of the air squadrons allocated to perform the specified combat missions.

The squadron commander, having received the task, made calculations of forces and means, basing the calculation on the following points:

1) how many ships need to be covered;
2) at what distance from the coastline the escort took place;
3) length of escort.

Based on this, a schedule/table was drawn up for the overlap of the crossing, according to which the departures of replacement groups of aircraft were carried out, the time spent over security objects was established, and the daytime signal for the change of duty units was established. From the “Instructions for covering ships and transports during daytime crossings with fighters”:

“Patrols should be carried out strictly over ships. Patrolling fighters bear full responsibility for the safety of the ship they are covering from enemy air attacks. The approach to the covered ship is carried out on a sunny day from the opposite side of the sun, on a cloudy day from a quarter of the horizon north-east. 4–5 km before the ship, give evolution the “I am mine” signal, approved today.

Do not pursue enemy aircraft. While at a given altitude, conduct intensive surveillance of the lower sphere, from where torpedo bombers may appear.

Guidance of covering aircraft towards the enemy is carried out from a protected ship using a signal burst of tracer bullets and by radio. In case of engine failure, land on the water ahead of the ship."

When the escort area moved about 100 km or more from the home airfield, the cover of the ships became ineffective. Combat reports on the completion of the mission from the flight crew were obtained by interviewing the headquarters commander of part of the flying crews after landing, sometimes directly at the aircraft. Each crew was interviewed individually, and then a general combat report was compiled.

Radio communication with aircraft was not well established, with the exception of aircraft directly covering the Main Base (Sevastopol) and the airfield. Most often there was no communication with aircraft performing assault, bombing, and reconnaissance operations, with the exception of DB-3 and SB. All fighters were equipped only with radio receivers.

And the planes of flight and squadron commanders, regiment commanders and his deputies were additionally equipped with radio transmitters.

At the same time, the Germans usually listened to our radio conversations.

Chapter 4.
Condition of the Wehrmacht troops


At the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, units of the 4th German Air Fleet, numbering up to 450 aircraft, operated on the southern flank of the eastern front (land sector and the Black Sea). 150 fighters, mainly Me-109, 270 Ju-87 and Ju-88 bombers, 50 HE-111 bombers, about 30 seaplanes.

In September-October 1941, as the enemy troops moved east, the following airfields became home and operational: Nikolaev, Kherson, Bereslavl, Chaplynka, Vodopoy, Kulbakino, Ochakov, Shevchenko, Chernobaevka, Novaya Pavlovka, Maksimovka, Dorenburg, Askania-Nova, etc.


With a general tendency to deploy light aviation at a distance of 50–60 km from the front line, and heavy bomber aircraft at a distance of 100–150 km. Already in September 1941, cases of reconnaissance aircraft appearing even near Batumi were recorded.

A separate unit subordinate to the main headquarters (Luftwaffenführungsstab) of the Luftwaffe, bearing the name Löwengeschwader (“Lion Squadron”), was the 26th Bomber Squadron (KG 26), specializing in combat operations over the sea and consisting of both air groups of conventional bombers, and torpedo bombers.

Each group included three squadrons with continuous numbering and a headquarters squadron. For example, Group II included squadrons 4 to 6, with the 6th squadron being a torpedo-carrying squadron (Lufttorpedogeschwader - LT).

KG 26 was formed in 1937 in the cities of Lübeck, Lüneburg, Schwerin in northeastern Germany, and participated in the war in Spain. During combat service, partial reformations of regular Luftwaffe units sometimes occurred. This is how the torpedo-carrying 1./KG28 appears and disappears.


Henkel 111 Löwengeschwader, KG 26


JI-88

During World War II, torpedo bombers operated in all naval theaters of military operations. The main areas of concentration of forces: the Northern, Norwegian, Barents, Mediterranean, Red Seas, the Suez Canal - that is, where the main transport communications of the anti-Hitler coalition passed.

The main torpedo bomber was the HE-111 in various modifications, from the end of 1940 it was the HE-111 H-5, in September 1941 it was the HE-111 H-6. The long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft was a modification of the HE-111 T5+XH. In addition to the Henkel, torpedoes were carried by Ju-88s and seaplanes.

The development of torpedo-carrying aviation in Germany took place in fierce competition with the navy (Kriegsmarine), which did not want to give up the privilege of using torpedoes. The confrontation even reached the point of selecting test sites for torpedoes.

As a result, the German aviation torpedo (LT) F1940 with a caliber of 5 mm available in 533, although it was mass-produced in several versions, suffered from numerous shortcomings. For example, a steam-gas engine left a clearly visible trail of exhaust steam bubbles.

The range of destruction directly depended on the speed, which was regulated by the set pressure in the working chamber. If it was adjusted to run at 40 knots, then the range was 2 m, and at a speed of 000 knots the torpedo could travel 24 meters.

It should be noted that the range of torpedoes varies greatly in different sources. Optimal drop parameters: height – no more than 40 m, water depth at the drop site – no less than 15 meters, aircraft speed – no more than 200–240 km/h. But even in this case, the torpedo could often fail to reach the surface or break upon impact with the water, especially due to rough seas.

The Germans did not have time to complete its development by the beginning of World War II, and in 1940 they had to buy a license from the Italian company Whitehead-Werft und Torpedofabrik from the city of Fiume. Italian F5b torpedoes at a speed of 40 knots gave 1,5 times greater range than German ones.

They were equipped with a wooden tail that could be discarded after entering the water, which increased the likelihood of a torpedo reaching the surface. At the same time, the main tactical and technical characteristics (according to the instructions, Freiburg archive): caliber - 450 mm, length - 6 mm, weight - 069 kg, explosive weight - 936 kg, range - 200 meters at a speed of 2 knots and set pressure in a steam and gas generator 500 kg/cm².

At first, the fuse was contact (later magnetic) and self-armed after the torpedo had traveled 500 meters. Both torpedoes had a device for setting the lead of the shot and the depth of travel, set by the crew in flight through a special hatch in the fuselage of the aircraft.


The torpedoes were suspended under the fuselage and fired by an electric drive. The low speed of the aircraft and the altitude above the level of the torpedoes, the need to maintain a straight and stable course and the pitch of the sea during release made the torpedo bomber a good target.

Given the large glass surface of the canopy for the pilot and navigator-gunner, the HE-111 needed to have very strong nerves to maintain its combat course and achieve the required torpedo release distance.

But even after this, great luck was required: when the aircraft left the attack line, the belly of the aircraft was practically exposed to the air defense fire of the attacked target, which, along with the imperfection of the torpedo design, made the torpedoing efficiency low.

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  1. -7
    20 November 2023 04: 56
    but also naval aviation, including torpedo-carrying aircraft. Apparently, the USSR was unable to draw the proper conclusions or simply did not have time.

    About the reasons for defeat at the beginning and then the price of Victory.
    For the genius Solzhenitsyn.
    And here:
    We are all grandfathers in age and closer to them.
    There are traditions and inertia of historical development.
    What knowledge does the older generation pass on to their grandchildren? Test yourself. Specially, boarding schools and the like, divorced from the 19th century, were created, the pioneers walked in columns, sang songs, so that without the “peasant” fun, and with a globe and a logarithm, the grandson of those peasants grew up. At the level of the suburbs of London and Frankfurt. Cambridge and Harvard. It’s a crime that they abandoned their universities and began sending their offspring to London and Paris 30 years ago.
    Grandfather puts his childhood and youth “practices” into his subconscious. Before WWII - this is the grandfather from Alexander3 and nickname2.
    And the subconscious - an illiterate childhood. There weren’t enough people in 41 who thought intelligently. Pedantic and with modern knowledge and skills.
    Only by 79 did the USSR reach the average European level of the number of doctors per 100 thousand population.
    It is impossible in a commentary to reveal the power of inertia in the life of a huge country and the organizing force to overcome inertia from swineherds to navigators and astronauts. So Yuri Gagarin was taught separately, by a specialist, from home, with a dorm, and without the habits of the older generation.
    The abstract is not a test.
    1. 0
      20 November 2023 23: 42
      Sometimes it seems to me that some of the local commentators are directly supplied by tsipso. No.
  2. +4
    20 November 2023 06: 59
    No traces of torpedoes were found on the found wreckage of the Armenia, although it is not a fact that they were not there, since the remains of the hull are deeply immersed in silt. But there are clear traces of two air bomb hits, and one definitely hit the navigation bridge, where the command staff of this ship clearly immediately died.
    But what amazes me most is that the Germans have no mention of this victory anywhere. Considering that the transport was armed and did not carry red cross signs, it was a legitimate target at sea and there was no reason to hide the fact of the sinking.
    It’s a sinful thing, the thought creeps in that “Armenia” did not perish from “friendly fire...”
    1. +6
      20 November 2023 09: 18
      It’s a sinful thing, the thought creeps in that “Armenia” did not perish from “friendly fire...”
      No.
      After discovering the site of the sinking of “Armenia” in April 2020, the underwater remote-controlled vehicle descended to it seven more times.
      A survey of the “Armenia”, carried out in 2020-2021 from the experimental vessel “Seliger”, showed that all the davits of the ship were folded back. This means we managed to dump all the boats! There were 16 boats on the “Armenia”. SKA 0122 also reported about boats being dropped into the water.
      In addition, the side cargo hatches were opened. There are no holes left in the lower part of the hull, which eliminates the possibility of the ship being destroyed by torpedoes. The enormous destruction of the superstructures and deck in the bow indicates that this is the result of the impact of bombs, one of which hit the wheelhouse. Judging by the examinations, it is assumed that these destructions are the result of two bombs, maybe even three, which led to
      rapid flooding of the bow compartments and flooding of the ship. During the inspection, we saw that 45mm anti-aircraft guns were installed on the ship. The pilots noted that fire was fired from the left side guns.

      This excludes any speculation that the ship was a sanitary ship and had red crosses on its sides.
      In June 2021, as a result of a complex operation, an underwater remote-controlled vehicle managed to lift a ship’s bell with the inscription “Armenia” from the lost ship, which will become a memory of this tragedy.
      The Center for Underwater Research of the Russian Geographical Society has created a special information and memorial portal. His main goal is to compile a list of those killed on the Armenia, since there is no official list of those killed. The names of more than 300 people who died on the ship "Armenia" have already been established.

      I provide a link to the entire article, it contains more detailed information regarding the death of the m/v "Armenia".
      https://flot.com/blog/piton56/chto-rasskazali-arkhivnye-dokumenty-o-gibeli-teplokhoda-armeniya.php?ysclid=lp6hp0oqob74958062
      1. +1
        20 November 2023 11: 31
        Quote: Gomunkul
        I provide a link to the entire article, it contains more detailed information regarding the death of the m/v "Armenia"

        I am familiar with it, as well as with the stories of the people who took part in it.
        Quote: Gomunkul
        No.

        And what gave you a reason to think so. The weather was very cloudy that day. According to the recollections of the convoy ship, the bomber suddenly appeared from the clouds. Fire was opened on him very quickly. That is, the anti-aircraft gunners, without figuring out whose plane it was, immediately began to shoot. Which is logical in principle, I fully admit that the pilot launched a bomb in response...
        But this is again my version, if it were possible to find fragments of those aerial bombs that hit the ship, pick them up and analyze them.
        In addition, it would be worth trying to understand what bombs hit the ship. This could be done by building a mathematical model of destruction, but who will do this.
        What am I getting at, the Germans didn’t have 250 kg bombs, 100 and immediately 500 kg...
        1. +1
          20 November 2023 11: 59
          And what gave you a reason to think so. The weather was very cloudy that day. According to the recollections of the convoy ship, the bomber suddenly appeared from the clouds. Fire was opened on him very quickly. That is, the anti-aircraft gunners, without figuring out whose plane it was, immediately began to shoot. Which is logical in principle, I fully admit that the pilot launched a bomb in response...

          The possibility of excluding friendly bombing is probably possible for one reason: the Axis countries did not have so many ships on the Black Sea at the time when the Armenia perished.
          What am I getting at, the Germans didn’t have 250 kg bombs, 100 and immediately 500 kg...

          Not a bomb expert, but here's what's freely available:
          We present data from several German conventional bombs. The smallest incendiary bombs weighed only 1 kg. Their length is 350 mm and diameter is 50 mm. There were the same small fragmentation bombs, some of them made from 50-mm mortar shells.
          The 10 kg fragmentation bombs had a length of 585 mm and a diameter of 86 mm.
          The 50 kg fragmentation bombs had a length of 1100 mm and a diameter of 200 mm.
          The 250-kg high-explosive fragmentation bombs had a length of 1630-1651 mm and a diameter of 368-370 mm. Weight BB-112,5 kg.
          The 500 kg SC-500 high-explosive fragmentation bombs had a length of 2022 mm and a diameter of 470 mm.
          The 1000 kg SC-1000 high-explosive bombs had a length of 2660 kg and a diameter of 660 mm.
          The 1800 kg SC-1800 high-explosive bombs had a length of 3500 mm and a diameter of 660 mm.
          The 2500 kg SC-2500 high-explosive bombs had a length of 3900 mm and a diameter of 820 mm.
          hi
      2. 0
        22 November 2023 12: 00
        Do not confuse ambulance transport and hospital ship... These are different things...
    2. +4
      20 November 2023 20: 21
      Please do not make hasty conclusions and read to the end of the article.
  3. +6
    20 November 2023 14: 14
    hi
    Hmm, good article! The author even uses primary sources and does not rewrite what has already been published! good good

    A particular danger in the Black Sea is posed by enemy torpedo-carrying aircraft, which cause particular damage to our transport fleet.
    IMHO, number one in terms of losses were mines (let’s not point fingers at who planted them); number two - bombs; number three - torpedoes.
    At the same time, the Luftwaffe did not have “naval aviation” as such.

    Morozov had a good pair of books, “The Air War for Sevastopol” and “The Black Sea Fleet...” (I don’t remember exactly). There are interesting statistics on our losses, it would be nice to use them, IMHO.

    As a result, the naval bases of the Black Sea Fleet at the beginning of the war had sufficient “ground” air defense. But the losses of the Red Army in aircraft and the critical reduction of the airfield network led to the overwhelming superiority of the Luftwaffe in the air, both due to the number, better tactical and technical characteristics of the aircraft, and due to combat experience.
    As a result, the transport ships of the Black Sea Fleet suffered such monstrous losses, while there was not a single naval battle in the Black Sea theater of military operations during the entire war.
    I won’t play grammar-tazi about the terms “battle”, etc.
    According to SABZH - IMHO, regarding convoys, questions were related to the organization of convoy service, navigational support (especially regarding passages through minefields) and the operation of ports.
    Regarding air coverage of transport ships - at that time this was impossible on those routes IMHO, even if Pe3 had appeared. For complete cover “without holes,” aircraft carriers would be needed.
    Regarding “the naval bases of the Black Sea Fleet at the beginning of the war had sufficient “land” air defense” - IMHO, insufficient, even for those times.

    Good luck to the author in writing articles!
    1. +3
      20 November 2023 16: 35
      Regarding air coverage of transport ships - at that time this was impossible

      Specifically, Armenia was covered by aviation at the time of the German strike.

      November
      1941 years
      10 am
      The “Journal of Combat Operations of the Air Force and Air Defense” of the Black Sea Fleet records: “10-20—10-40. Yu-88 attacked the m/v "Armenia" in the quarter. 1769. “Armenia”, having been hit by 2 bombs on the bow, stopped its progress.” A flight of Soviet fighters sent to accompany the transport did not notice the bomber in time due to cloud cover.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +3
        20 November 2023 17: 51
        hi
        You see, the concept of “covered by aviation” can be understood
        - as a flight of fighters sent to accompany the transport;
        - and an aircraft carrier with fighters and a radar, where the guidance group solves the issues of detecting, identifying and targeting its fighters.
        Both the first and second can be called “aircraft cover,” but, as they say, “there is a nuance” from the point of view of efficiency too.

        IMHO, of course, but a sign with “losses and causes” of Black Sea Fleet transports would be nice. And the accompanying conditions “with/without security; at the base/at the transition; with air cover/without cover.”
        As for warships, it is a little more complicated, but their use as transports raises its own questions.

        I agree that at a certain point the tonnage of the fleet was reduced (the word “critically” is suitable here), but if you look at the reasons (here a sign with “On losses” would be very useful), then torpedo bombers, to put it mildly, were not the main problem.
    2. +3
      20 November 2023 20: 37
      Thank you for your positive feedback. But judging by your text, you did not read the first part
      https://topwar.ru/230242-gibel-transporta-armenija-7-nojabrja-1941-goda-predposylki-i-istorija-kak-jeto-bylo.html

      Yours faithfully,
      1. +3
        20 November 2023 22: 50
        You are right, I saw your first article diagonally; When I read it, I didn’t compare it at all with this one.
        And for the topic you stated about “Armenia”, my “good wishes” for “plates on fleet losses” are redundant, IMHO.

        In general, it’s interesting, you are working with primary interesting material.
        Good luck in writing your articles!
  4. +1
    21 November 2023 07: 31
    Torpedoes...torpedoes, and witnesses say that bombs hit Armenia. Basically, it seems like the Germans used bombs to sink ships at the World Cup. Those. The main damage to the fleet will be inflicted by "things". And this is a fairly low-speed aircraft. Well, the actual mass production in the USSR of modern fighter models solved the problem of enemy aviation. The I-16 and especially the I-153 had approximately the same speed that it was difficult for our U-87 aircraft to fight the German ones.
    And about the sunken ships.... Let's remember how many ships the Germans sank during the assault on Crete. Once the Anglicans stocked their air force with fast fighters, fleet losses from aircraft dropped sharply.
  5. -2
    21 November 2023 14: 17
    There is some justice in the criticism regarding combat training. But it’s still worth saying that no fleets were ready to repel attacks by dive bombers. It is worth remembering the British. At least in Crete.
    And to hit dive bombers with a forty-five..... Here you have to be a god of anti-aircraft shooting. A person can, but by chance. Systemically it is simply useless.
  6. +3
    21 November 2023 15: 08
    Henkel 111 Löwengeschwader, KG 26
    In this photo, the restored He 111 N-1, which was damaged by a Spitfire and landed in Britain on February 5, 1940, after repairs in August 1940, was tested in Farnborough, 1426 RAF division, registration number AW 177. It flew in Britain until 1943. got into a plane crash. This aircraft did not fight in the Black Sea.... The Ju 88 is a version of a heavy fighter, as I understand, the author found the first photos and immediately inserted them. What's on board? There is a high probability that this is a Ju 88 C-4 board R4+FL from I/ NJG2 Benghazi airfield, Libya 1941/42. The monograph "War in the Air - 2. Junkers Ju 88" gives its coloring. Well, the photo itself is here https://airpages.ru/lw/ju88c.shtml the group’s emblem and the first letter R are clearly visible...

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