Russian world is narrowing

45
Russia's cultural influence in Central Asia is waning


For the Russian world of Central Asia, the past year will be remembered by two contradictory trends. On the one hand, the reduction of Russia's military-political influence in the region did not happen. The new leadership of the Russian Federation managed to agree with Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan on the extension of the terms of stay of Russian military facilities, and, despite the withdrawal of Uzbekistan, positive dynamics are noticeable in the development of the CSTO. Contours of strengthening of economic presence of the Russian Federation in the region were outlined. On the other hand, Russia's cultural and civilizational influence in the region continues to weaken.

The narrowing of the Russian world on the territory of the former Soviet republics of Central Asia and Kazakhstan is caused by two interrelated processes: a decrease in the number of Russian (Slavic) population and a reduction in the sphere of use of the Russian language. And if the first of these processes is objective and, to some extent, natural, the second is largely a consequence of the language policy pursued by the authorities. Both of these processes have a mutual influence on each other: the reduction in the number of Russians leads to a further narrowing of the Russian-language cultural and information space, which, in turn, gives the rest a desire to emigrate to a country with a more comfortable ethno-cultural environment.

At the same time, the language policy of the authorities is one of the main reasons forcing the Slavic population to focus on moving to Russia.
It is noteworthy that the deterioration of the position of the Russian language in the past year was observed in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan - the allied Russian states that are its partners in the CSTO. In addition, Astana, together with Moscow and Minsk, are part of the Customs Union (CU) and the Common Economic Space (CES), and Bishkek is a candidate for joining these organizations. The Russian language in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, being official, has so far enjoyed the most favorable legal status in comparison with other Central Asian states, which, by the way, is a constant target of attacks from the nationalist opposition. In other countries of the region, there were no significant changes in the situation of the Russian language last year. In Tajikistan, which is also a member of the CSTO, in 2011 it was restored to the former status of the language of international communication, and in Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan the status of the Russian language has not yet been determined by law.

The reasons for the aggravation of the language issue are rooted in the particularities of the internal political development of Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. Over the course of 2012, a difficult socio-political situation developed in both republics, accompanied by an increase in nationalist sentiments and demands for raising the status of state (titular) languages. In Kyrgyzstan, the situation around the status of the Russian language became aggravated last spring, when a number of politicians and public figures suggested depriving it of its official status, while retaining only one state language - Kyrgyz. The decision was initiated by deputies from the ruling political party Respublika, led by then-Prime Minister Omurbek Babanov. In early March, Urmat Amanbayeva, a member of parliament (Zhogorku Kenesh) from the Republic party, introduced a bill on introducing changes and amendments to some laws of the Kyrgyz Republic, which provided for the introduction of fines for state employees who do not speak the state language to the due extent. In an interview with the Kyrgyz-language newspaper Achyk Sayasat Plus, the deputy proposed to remove from the Constitution a clause on the official status of the Russian language, since “the Kyrgyz language is on the verge of extinction” and for its preservation it is necessary to make all officials know the Kyrgyz language at the level where they can perform their duties. "

The press service of the parliament tried to alleviate the situation, saying that U. Amanbayeva proposed not to change the Constitution, but only to make some changes and additions to the law on the state language. However, this news got a wide resonance. On March 27, the Chairperson of the Federation Council, Valentina Matvienko, at a meeting with the Speaker of the Jogorku Kenesh, Asilbek Zheenbekov, noted that reducing the scope of the Russian language would have a negative impact on the image of the republic, since Russian is the language of international communication. A. Jeenbekov, in response, was forced to declare that they did not plan to deprive the Russian language of the official status of Kyrgyzstan. “Even there is no question of depriving Russian of its official status,” he noted at a meeting of parliament. “This provision is spelled out in the Constitution, and we must honor the Basic Law.”

Soon, however, U. Amanbeva again made a similar statement. 15 May at the meeting of the Parliamentary Committee on Education, Science, Culture and Sport, she was outraged by the fact that officials speak in Russian.

“... It is imperative to keep all clerical work in Kyrgyz,” she said. - All official speeches must be in the official language. In state institutions it is necessary to introduce an exam for officials on the knowledge of the state language, and a multilevel one, and in case of violation of the law on the state language administrative responsibility should be provided for. ”

The requirement to use the Kyrgyz language instead of Russian has recently become one of the main trends in the country's political life. At the beginning of May, the first kurultai of students of Kyrgyzstan took place. The resolution adopted on its basis states that the state language in Kyrgyzstan should have official status. At a press conference devoted to the results of the kurultai, a member of the student council of the Kyrgyz-Turkish University Manas, Adilet Orozbaev, said that according to students, the Russian language hinders the development of the state language. However, according to him, giving official status to the Kyrgyz language does not mean that students will not have to learn Russian, English or other languages. The resolution also spoke of the need to translate computer programs, social networks and Internet resources into Kyrgyz language.

In June, a deputy of the Jogorku Kenesh, Gulasal Sadyrbaeva, spoke out with a demand to prepare all laws in the Kyrgyz language at a meeting of the committee on judicial and legal issues and legality. In her opinion, when translating documents from Russian into Kyrgyz and vice versa, gross grammatical and semantic errors occur. If the preparation of draft laws in the Kyrgyz language with their translation into Russian is legalized, then a special examination will be carried out to eliminate errors. A week and a half later, a similar demarche was made by the deputy of the parliament Torobai Zulpukarov, who resented the fact that the version of the concept of reforming state bodies was not presented in the state language. 12 June a document obliging to prepare all bills in the state language, was approved by the parliamentary committee on constitutional legislation, state structure and human rights. According to the deputy Kurmantai Abdiyev, all texts must be passed through the linguistic service of the apparatus of the Jogorku Kenesh to eliminate errors. The translation into Russian is assumed not literal, but semantic. To the same legislators who do not speak Kyrgyz, he proposed to involve consultants and translators.

In Kazakhstan, the desire to strengthen the position of the state language was expressed in the resuscitation of the idea of ​​its translation into the Latin alphabet.

In December, President N.A. Nazarbayev, in the message “Strategy Kazakhstan-2050”, instructed 2025 to work out the issue of translating the Kazakh alphabet into Latin graphics. The language, according to the president, is one of the main consolidating factors of the Kazakh nation, and therefore it must be modern and actively used in all spheres of social life. To do this, it is necessary not only to translate it into Latin graphics, but also to modernize the language itself in order to make it able to perform communicative functions and have appropriate terminology for this. Romanization of the alphabet will be accompanied by the expansion of the scope of the Kazakh language. By 2025, 95% of the population should own it. As a result, in 10-12 years, an entire generation should appear, polling Kazakh, which will become the language of ubiquitous communication.

The idea of ​​moving from Cyrillic to Latin in Kazakhstan began to be actively discussed after, when in October 2006, N. Nazarbayev stated the need to consider this issue. In July 2007, the Ministry of Education and Science prepared an analytical note “On the translation of Kazakh script into Latin script”, which considered the experience of other countries and peoples of the East on the introduction of Latin characters, justified the need to translate the Latin script of the Kazakh alphabet and gave a calculation of financial costs. The main initiator of the transition to the Latin alphabet is the Minister of Culture of Kazakhstan M. Kul-Mohammed. "I am absolutely sure: sooner or later we will move on to this," he declared, "life forces us to do this." At the same time, M. Kul-Mohammed assures that this issue has no political motivation, since, in his opinion, the alphabet has no “national face”.

In Central Asia, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan have already switched to the Latin alphabet. Moreover, the experience of their transition is rather negative, since there were more minuses (a decrease in the literacy level of the population, difficulties with the translation of educational and scientific literature, etc.) than advantages.
A particularly illustrative example of Uzbekistan, where the translation of the alphabet into Latin, having started in the middle of the 1990-s, was never completed due to the problems that arose. For Kazakhstan, the introduction of Latin characters will have much more serious consequences. About 1 / 5, its inhabitants are still Russians, and the cumulative share of Russian-speaking residents in the republic reaches 85%. The transition to the Latin alphabet will inevitably increase the ethnocultural differences between the Kazakhs and the Russians, and also will cause an increase in the migration outflow of Russians and other European ethnic groups. In cultural terms, the rejection of the Cyrillic alphabet will lead to increased alienation from Russia. At the same time, no integration of Kazakhstan into the world communication environment should be expected, since these processes are not directly connected with the graphic basis of the alphabet.

Meanwhile, the emigration of the Russian population from Kazakhstan and other states of the region, which had noticeably decreased by the middle of the last decade, increased again. In October, the number of participants in the compatriots resettlement program exceeded the psychologically significant figure in 100 thousand people. And almost half of them moved to Russia over the past year. The popularity of the program is growing, and the main stream of immigrants comes from the states of Central Asia. According to the Federal Migration Service, 32% of compatriots came to Russia from Kazakhstan, 20% from Uzbekistan, 10% from Moldova, 9,7% from Ukraine, 8% from Kyrgyzstan, 7,2% from Armenia and 4% from Tajikistan. Central Asia, therefore, accounts for almost two thirds of the displaced people. The leading position in the region is occupied by Kazakhstan, which continues to leave the Russian and other Slavic peoples. According to the Republican Statistics Agency for 2011, almost 3 / 4 emigrants were Russians (71,9%), followed by Ukrainians (7,9%), Germans (5,4%), Kazakhs (4,5%), Tatars (2,3 %) and Belarusians (1,8%). On the contrary, 2 / 3 are Kazakhs among immigrants (70,3%). That is, mainly the European leaves Kazakhstan, and the Asian population comes. As a result, the number of Russians is declining, although not as fast as in the 1990-s. In the three years that have passed since the 2009 census, their proportion among the inhabitants of Kazakhstan decreased from 23,7 to 22%.

Integration of the economies of the Customs Union and its parallel compression historical the civilizational basis - the Russian world - is one of the main contradictions in the formation of this association.

Moreover, these processes occur in the countries closest to Russia, which are critically important in geo-political and strategic terms. In the future, the de-Russification of the space of the future Eurasian Economic Union can become a time bomb, undermining its cultural foundations. Since the development of these processes will only intensify over time, it is worth considering Russia today to neutralize them. Otherwise, its “soft power” in Central Asia will finally come to naught, being supplanted by other stronger, more dynamic and aggressive cultures.
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  1. +7
    16 January 2013 07: 10
    Russian world is narrowing

    The framework of this narrowing can be judged even by the fact that visitors from there have to be taught in Russia, at least the basics, the Great and the Mighty.
    1. 0
      16 January 2013 09: 54
      Quote: Bulls.
      that visitors from there have to be taught in Russia, at least the basics, of the Great and the Mighty.

      "And learn Russian, it will come in handy" (c) "Brother"
      1. +1
        16 January 2013 15: 42
        Quote: Vladimirets
        "And learn Russian, it will come in handy" (c) "Brother"

        This is exactly how life has shown-come in handy.
        Now they need to be taught him, but before they spoke on it.
    2. 0
      17 January 2013 12: 34
      It can tighten the procedure for entry for labor gasarbeiters (attempts are made, but sluggishly): if you don't know Russian, you won't work and there is no need to enter! (For the purpose of tourism - entry is allowed for 30 days with a possible extension on the spot, but without the right to work, as in the USA or Geyrope they do) And it is not in the Russian Federation to introduce courses for Asians to study the Russian language. Don't bother teaching him in their schools, otherwise - without knowing Russian - sit in your bantustan. With a tough policy, the native leaders themselves will begin to promote the widespread use and study of the Russian language, since they will have nowhere to put the hordes of the unemployed, who are not allowed in the Russian Federation, as languageless. And the entry into the Tanozhen Union of neophytes should be conditioned by the requirement to change local constitutions, the introduction of the clause that the Russian language in Bantustan is the FIRST STATE AND OFFICIAL !!! Otherwise - nothing! For the language of communication in the vehicle is Russian! Nonesh elites, originally from the USSR, know him, and youngsters already at the level of the Papuan from the Mumbu-Yumbu tribe speak Russian, after more than 20 years of "independence".
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        17 January 2013 14: 18
        Quote: nnz226
        And the entry into the Tanofen Union of Neophytes is subject to the requirement to amend local constitutions, the introduction of the clause that the Russian language in Bantustan is the FIRST STATE AND OFFICIAL !!! Otherwise, no way!

        Excuse me, did you accidentally mislead anything? An economic union in the form of a Customs Union with the policies of the Russian Empire? If for you the policy of Russia should be the same as under the Romanovs, then a) it must be recognized that Russia oppressed national languages ​​on non-Russian lands; b) Russia is going to pursue a colonial policy, which means that the concerns of its neighbors and even the US State Department are justified.
        Well, but more seriously, then no one will introduce this. There are enough sensible people in politics who understand that one such stupid pressure will force all neighbors from Russia to turn their backs. Even the most loyal ally is Kazakhstan, which, incidentally, is the author of the idea of ​​the Customs Union.
        1. 0
          17 January 2013 15: 24
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Russia is going to pursue a colonial policy, which means that the fears of neighbors and even the US State Department are justified.

          Marek, with all due respect, someone who, and the United States has no right, let alone a moral, to suddenly worry about the "colonial" policy of Russia.
          The colonial policy of Russia (let's call it that so that you can understand the subject of conversation) was the softest in the modern history of mankind.
          And colonized peoples can count their grievances on the fingers of one hand.
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            17 January 2013 16: 22
            I answered specifically to the phrase nnz226 regarding the introduction of the Russian language without fail in the countries of the Customs Union. this one "finger" is enough for Kazakhstan's hand to withdraw from all integration projects with the Russian Federation. in your country speak whatever you like, and neither Kazakhs, nor Azeris, nor Tajiks, nor Martians are going to Russify.
            it is strange that NNZ226 did not bother even to look at the experience of creating economic unions in other regions of the planet in order to reflect on whether someone is ready to change their state language for the sake of a neighbor.
            1. 0
              17 January 2013 16: 35
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              this one "finger" is enough for Kazakhstan's hand to withdraw from all integration projects with the Russian Federation. in your country speak whatever you like, and neither Kazakhs, nor Azerbaijanis, nor Tajiks, nor Martians are going to Russify.

              Okay, essentially no answer. Your case, write at least cuneiform.
              Threaten to get out of integration projects with Russia? And who will lose more from this? Is it really Russia? Integrate then with the USA. No, far away. EU? Not that either. In, with Uzbekistan.
              And about the insults again biased. My words missed attention. Apparently not worthy.
              Better remember your words that the Tatar-Mongols are Kazakhs who brought Russia to their knees. Let's talk about it ...
              1. Marek Rozny
                +1
                17 January 2013 17: 55
                Kazakhs always clearly and clearly state their priorities in foreign policy. Never once did Kazakhstan allow an incorrect statement or just a hostile action towards those partners with whom we are going to re-create an alliance. But you have to constantly listen to all kinds of nonsense from representatives of the Russian Federation and just Russians from other countries. Now to the next myths and nonsense, Russians have a new offense - the "Kazakh alphabet".
                The feeling that in the Russian media there are only enemies of Russia who think: "What else to get to the bottom of? Where else to pour out" grievances "on the neighbors? Where else to shit on Russia's allies." And the Russians easily pick up any of their ducks - "A NATO base is being built in Kazakhstan," "Kazakhstan is severing relations with Russia," "Kazakhs are driving the Russians out of Baikonur," "Kazakhs have betrayed Russia and are embracing the Turks," "Kazakhstan is turning away from Russian weapons" or here - "The Russian world is shrinking", in which the "rights of the Russian-speakers" are directly linked with the Kazakh alphabet. What do you all care about our language? Why are you all done? You usually write on your own with errors, but you try to tell others how to write "correctly". There are questions that concern only Kazakhs, Russians or Moldovans. And what does our culture and your grievances-hate-experiences-worries have to do with it ??? We don't give a damn what opinion the Russians have on this topic, just don't write about it, whipping up hysteria and making your neighbors look like traitors, bastards or fools. This is none of your business. Do you want the word "coffee" to be neuter, if you want to write "to / to Ukraine" - this is your language, whatever you want, do it in it. Write yourself at least in Latin, at least in Indian letters. Do not meddle in our alphabet. Not a single Russian friend of mine who speaks the Kazakh language has spoken out against, but any illiterate in this matter imagines himself an expert linguist, a soothsayer and an analyst. You go nafig, advisers. In 1940 it was already advised.
                If you have never encountered the problems of the Kazakh language in modern conditions, do not be smart about this topic. If you are not aware that Kazakhs are now using SEVERAL alphabets at the same time - Cyrillic in Kazakhstan, Arabic, Latin and even hieroglyphic letters, then you yourself would say, "Guys, what the hell is it when a Kazakh from Turkey cannot read the message of a Kazakh from China, but Kazakh from Kazakhstan does not understand Kazakh from Iran! " All go into the forest, this is not your business.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  17 January 2013 18: 05
                  Sorry, Navodlom, who spoke sharply, but people who are far from the problems of the Kazakh language, but are trying to speak out about it, are already really annoying. I would understand the fears of the Russians if they really did something to the detriment of their neighbors. But the theme of the alphabet is a purely Kazakh affair.
                2. 0
                  17 January 2013 18: 26
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Come on you advisers.

                  Is this expression specifically addressed to whom? Or just a splash of accumulated emotions?
                  Everything, the question is removed. Read the answer below.
  2. CCA
    CCA
    +7
    16 January 2013 08: 13
    In Central Asia, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan have already switched to the Latin alphabet. Moreover, the experience of their transition is rather negative, since there were more minuses (a decrease in the literacy level of the population, difficulties with the translation of educational and scientific literature, etc.) than advantages.
    We will not judge them strictly ... Everyone chooses his own path and his own bumps ... But in the world there is a completely different trend ... Finland, Vietnam, China, Turkey, are more and more oriented towards Russian-speaking - they duplicate signs, learn the language, translate the menu in their restaurants ... and they even started directly accepting Russian rubles for payment, and the Finns generally legalized the calculation in rubles on their territory - this is another choice for you ...
    1. Serge
      +2
      16 January 2013 09: 28
      CCA, also noticed this
      all the more strange to hear with such trends about the revival of the USSR
      1. sergey261180
        0
        16 January 2013 17: 55
        This is noodles for senior citizens. Raised tariffs for housing and communal services, for example, - get a portion of doshirak which we are great. Information civil war.
    2. vadimus
      +2
      16 January 2013 11: 37
      I agree, here is a double-edged sword. Maybe somewhere in Asia we are losing interest, but in other regions we are getting on our feet. Politics does not stand still, but life is even more so ..
      1. +2
        16 January 2013 14: 01
        And most importantly, it is not yet known how all this comes up for the Russophobes themselves. Usually, Mother Nature of such beats in the face and very hard.
    3. GM.kz
      0
      17 January 2013 22: 34
      Already, Russian business is crowding out Kazakh business in Kazakhstan, so that by 2050, which is indicated by our elbasy, Russia will swallow Kazakhstan and everyone will speak new Russian!
  3. +3
    16 January 2013 08: 21
    Our country needs to become stronger both militarily and economically. Then the neighbors will have a craving for the Russian language, and a desire to be closer to a successful and strong one.
    1. +5
      16 January 2013 08: 50
      I'm afraid that will not appear. These processes are precisely aimed at breaking away from Russia. They are initiated and implemented by the power of having clans afraid of the restoration of the Union in any form. All the ranting about global integration, modernization, etc. ordinary screen.
    2. +3
      16 January 2013 08: 56
      Quote: smel
      Our country needs to become stronger both militarily and economically. Then the neighbors will have a craving for the Russian language, and a desire to be closer to a successful and strong one.

      For ordinary people, craving will appear, it is - yes ...
      It is there that the authorities are worried that, if they, with such a pull of their people for Russia, have no problems.
  4. +4
    16 January 2013 08: 26
    so, the recently discussed possibilities of the Eurasian Union and friendship between the Russian Federation and Central Asia are garbage, can we draw such a conclusion from here?

    "displaced by other, stronger, more dynamic and aggressive cultures" - is this an allusion to China, I understand? :)) Well, yes, they do not sleep :(

    Are there somewhere the same interesting statistics of the causes of migration? Is this the policy of the leadership of the Republics - crowding out Russia (and this is exactly how one can understand about Cyrillic / Latin letters), or what?

    And what do people in these countries think about this?

    Somewhere recently an interesting thought flashed through, unfortunately, so far it reached me :), I lost somewhere - about horizontal networking and uniting like-minded people. Here we are all gathered from different countries who are not indifferent to the fate of their homeland - although we have different views, we argue, swear, take offense, but fundamentally we "root" for our people, for our state - this is what we have in common ... I think it would be nice to organize from us something like a club, a movement, - sorry, here I am not an expert, but I ask people to think about it.
  5. +2
    16 January 2013 08: 51
    More correctly, it is not the Russian world that is narrowing, but the Orthodox Christian.
  6. - = ALEX = -
    -15
    16 January 2013 09: 02
    The Russian world is a myth.
    1. +8
      16 January 2013 10: 01
      Quote: - = ALEX = -
      The Russian world is a myth.


      The Ukrainian world is a real myth.
      1. Svobodny
        +7
        16 January 2013 10: 11
        Veteras the great Pushkin said, "they received praise and slander indifferently and do not challenge a fool"
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          16 January 2013 17: 18
          Free, your name is Pavel? Are you Russian-speaking?
          Tell me, how personally have you been prejudiced by the fact that Kazakh writing will now be in Latin? And can you confirm that in Kazakhstan it is impossible for a person who speaks only the Russian language to get pre-school, school, university education, find a normal job, and also cannot access the Russian-language media in Kazakhstan and the CIS?
          Please tell us specific examples of your experience with language problems.
          1. 0
            17 January 2013 15: 28
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Tell me, how personally have you been prejudiced by the fact that Kazakh writing will now be in Latin?

            The question must be posed under a completely different vector.
            All of us, regardless of nationality and opinion, are talking about justice. Even if everyone has her own. So answer, how fair is the decision to switch to Latin writing in historical terms?
            And why Latin? Not Chinese, say?
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              17 January 2013 16: 37
              Navodlom, the Kazakhs write about this question here on the website under each article. Over the past month, this is already the third or fourth article (!) On the site, which starts a hysteria regarding the Kazakh Latin alphabet and "the rights of Russian speakers". so honestly, I say - it's too lazy to write on this topic. I will only say that Kazakhs want to write in Latin, and who cares about this - let them go through the forest. maybe the inhabitants of a neighboring country are not able to know more than one language and alphabet, and Kazakhs are bilingual anyway, and now they have also set themselves the task of becoming trilinguals. I even had both grandfathers fluently in Kazakh in Arabic, Latin and Cyrillic. and even more so for modern Kazakhs to switch to a new alphabet is not a question. this problem worries exclusively people who do not know Kazakh. They are simply abysmal that their alphabet (more precisely, the Bulgarian one) lost in the 21st century in KZ. And they do not care that now Kazakhs from different countries simply cannot communicate due to the fact that the Cyrillic alphabet is not understood anywhere in the world, except for Bulgaria and Mongolia.
              It is good that Msk does not have leverage on KZ, which could affect Astana’s position on this issue. And then the Tatars are officially forbidden to write in their native language, since the Tatars themselves want it - in Latin. And then the Russians are surprised - why have the Tatars started talking about separatism lately? Like, they didn’t do anything to them - think, we prohibit writing in our native language as it suits them, but these are trifles.
              ZY I do not understand at all what kind of justice you are talking about ... In relation to whom? To the Bulgarian alphabet, which was forcibly pushed to us instead of the Latin in 1940? And to the letter "yat" you feel a desire to stand up for justice and reintroduce it into the circulation of Russian speech? Or is it the prerogative of the Russians to change the alphabet piece by piece or as a whole? Take it easy with your justice. Otherwise, Kazakhs will remember who else owes whom. Get tired of returning "justice" back.
              1. 0
                17 January 2013 17: 26
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                I’ll just say that the Kazakhs want to write in Latin, and who cares, let them go in the woods

                Is this the result of a referendum? By most votes?
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                I do not understand at all what kind of justice you are talking about ... In relation to whom? To the Bulgarian alphabet, which we were forcibly shoved instead of the Latin in 1940? And to the letter "yat" you feel a desire to stand up for justice and reintroduce it into Russian speech? Or is it the prerogative of Russians to change the alphabet piece by piece or as a whole?

                It seems that you are very offended by everything Russian. But in my lines above you will not find a word about the Cyrillic alphabet. It was a little different. Do not conceive or distort. I would understand the desire of the people to return to the roots, to the original written language, to revive the culture. But the picture is quite the opposite - anything, just not like the Russians.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  17 January 2013 18: 11
                  There is no need for a referendum. I live in Kazakhstan, I am Kazakh. Almost all Kazakhs experience a lot of problems with their specific writing. Even being in Russia. Read what the Kazakhs themselves write here on the site, you don’t even have to go far. Not a single Kazakh spoke out against the transition to the Latin alphabet, since Kazakhs know their problems.
                  Secondly, you ascribe to me some kind of "offense" towards everything Russian - this is nonsense. Do not confuse sour with salty. I want to write in Kazakh in Latin, it is more convenient both in the computer and on the phone, and being abroad. And most importantly, it will unite all Kazakhs who do not know the Cyrillic alphabet, living in China, Turkey, Iran and other countries. Every fourth Kazakh historically lives outside the territory of modern Kazakhstan. State news sites are now forced to write in THREE Kazakh alphabets - http://inform.kz/ Open this site and see how many Kazakh alphabets have to be written so that Kazakhs can know the news of Kazakhstan.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +2
                    17 January 2013 18: 15
                    Here is how much effort is required to write the same short news information in the Kazakh language alone:

                    باسشئسئنئث وكئمئمةن گةنةرال-مايور ءانؤار تولةؤحان ذلئ سادئقذلوأ ق ر ذ ق ك "ارئستان" قئزمةتئنئث باستئعئ بولئ تاعيد
                    باسپاءسوز قئزمةتئنةن حابارلاعانداي ، ق ر ذ ق ك-نئث ءتوراعاسئ نذرتايء
                    ةستةرئثئزگة سالا كةتةيئك, بذعان دةيئن نذرسذلتان نازاربايةأتئث وكئمئمةن ءا.سادئقذلوأ ق ر پرةزيدةنتئ كذزةتئ باستئعئنئث ءبئرئنشئ ورئنباسارئ - پرةزيدةنت قاؤئپسئزدئگئ قئزمةتئنئث باستئعئ قئزمةتئنةن باسقا جذمئسقا اؤئسؤئنا بايلانئستئ بوساتئلعان بولاتئن.

                    ASTANA. 17 qañtar. QazAqparat - Memleket basşısınıñ ökіmіmen general-mayor Änwar Tölewxanulı Sadıqulov QR UQK "Arıstan" qızmetіnіñ bastığı bolıp tağayındaldı.
                    Baspasöz qızmetinen xabarlağanday, QR UQK-nіñ törağası Nurtay Äbіqaev arnayı qızmettіñ jaña basşısın basşılıq pen jeke quramğa tanıstırdı.
                    Esterіñіzge sala keteyіk, buğan deyіn Nursultan Nazarbaevtıñ ökіmіmen Ä.Sadıqulov QR Prezïdentі küzetі bastığınıñ bіrіnşі orınbasarı - Prezïdent qawіpsіzdііііііііііііііiіqіnіqіnіqıt

                    ASTANA. 17 Kқңtar. ҚазАқпарат - The Mechslet of the Boschysyn ң Ukimimen, Major General Әnuar Tөleuhanұly Sadyқұlov ҚР ҰҚK "Arystan" қyzmetіnің bastyғy bolyp taayyndaldy.
                    Baspasz қyzmetіnen khabarlaғanday, ҚР ҰҚК-нің төрағасы Nұrtay Әbіқaev arnayy метyzmettің zhңa boskysyn boscılyқ pen zheke құramғa tanystyrda.
                    Esterіңіzge fat keteyіk, bұғan deyіn Nұrsұltan Nazarbaevtyң өkіmіmen Ә.Sadyқұlov ҚR Prezidentі kүzetі bastyғynyң bіrіnshі Orynbasarov - President қauіpsіzdіgі қyzmetіnің bastyғy қyzmetіnen basқa zhұmysқa auysuyna baylanysty bosatylғan bolatyn.

                    And now again start writing about the fact that in connection with the change in the main Kazakh alphabet, we violated the rights of Russians, that the Kazakhs are ungrateful, that they are dancing to the tune of the State Department or simply do not know what they want.
                    1. 0
                      17 January 2013 18: 25
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      And now again start writing about the fact that in connection with the change in the main Kazakh alphabet, we violated the rights of Russians, that the Kazakhs are ungrateful, that they are dancing to the tune of the State Department or simply do not know what they want.

                      To get started, look where I wrote it and whether it was written at all.
      2. - = ALEX = -
        -9
        16 January 2013 10: 55
        The Russian world is an artificially created myth, and pedaling it threatens the integrity of Russia itself (which was so artificially called by the order of Peter).

        1. +3
          16 January 2013 12: 30
          don’t tell people, the Gatchina has already formatted the whole brain for you !!! interpretation of the burning of Moscow by Kutuzov, generally shine)))) because of the warehouses ??? And Nevsky Swedes hollowed, probably owed them money? By your logic, only that way)))) yes, the metropolis was once in your territory)))) but your ancestors remained there, and ours went further, and expanded the Russian lands, built the Russian state ...
        2. +4
          16 January 2013 12: 32
          - = ALEX = "with pedaling" ...
          Even in terms of you, not everything is clear. Although this gentleman is quite suitable for the face.
  7. +2
    16 January 2013 09: 28
    It is no secret that the entire post-Soviet space is a zone of vital interests of Russia. Further, talk about the process of extinction of the national language in one or another national state is contrived and sucked out of the finger. The work during the time of the USSR was conducted in the national language in the republics. The whole difference is that along with the national language, the Russian language existed. For example, I do not approve of the proclaimed policy of resettlement of Russian-speaking citizens in Russia, I will explain why, the outflow of qualified personnel worsens economic situation in individual republics. Is it not better to provide target assistance to compatriots, for example, the construction of Russian-language schools, in places of compact residence creating production. etc. The creation of modern infrastructure in areas of compact residence will spur local authorities to closer ties and, in turn, to economic reforms in their own country.
    1. tm70-71
      +1
      16 January 2013 10: 19
      Are you Apallon, excuse me, where did you fly? To all who wish Russian and Russian-speaking citizens of the republics S.A., help move to their historical homeland. And this must be done urgently!
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        17 January 2013 14: 10
        TM, well, there is also a program for the resettlement of compatriots. But something this program in Ukraine and KZ failed miserably. Our Russians, of course, are interested in what is offered to them there, but in the end there is no mass outflow of Russians in the Russian Federation.
        Do you live in Kyrgyzstan? Looking for help from Russia? Or why are you pulling away? Even poor Tajiks are quietly moving to Russia. And what prevents you from leaving Kyrgyzstan?
        1. GM.kz
          0
          18 January 2013 05: 42
          Oh don't talk! I am Russian and I know better than you about the mood of Russians in Kazakhstan and they are not at all encouraging! 99 ave. Do not see their future in Kazakhstan DO NOT SEE !! Nationalism is growing increasingly shouting about the abolition of the status of the Russian language, etc. The Russians are now waiting and what will happen next after the Elbasy.
  8. Svobodny
    0
    16 January 2013 10: 10
    Veteras the great Pushkin said, "they received praise and slander indifferently and do not challenge a fool"
  9. djon3volta
    +6
    16 January 2013 10: 54
    Yesterday I watched Lukashenko’s press conference, how stupid but for some reason the press conference was in Russian! and only proud Ukrainians asked Lukashenko questions in Ukrainian (3-4 times), and what questions, especially one crest from Radio Liberty (America’s voice branch) ), he was interested in Lukashenko’s watches and their price, donated by maybach, the price of the presidential plane .. the other Ukrainian women were worried by the oppositionists languishing in the dungeons of prisons, the other was some kind of black list of musicians .. In short, I understand everything about this Ukraine, and who only set up that they even a Chinese correspondent was there, and he even asked questions in Russian, not to mention the Belarusian press who spoke purely Russian.
    1. +3
      16 January 2013 14: 02
      Yes, yes, I also looked, it was remembered that I didn’t say the right thing, not on a piece of paper.
  10. +2
    16 January 2013 11: 22
    Media: The image of Russia abroad will be restored in the Soviet way

    MOSCOW, January 16. Russia is embarking on the implementation of the task set by President Vladimir Putin on the use of "soft power" to improve the country's image abroad and advance its interests.


    Kommersant notes that the government's plan of activities along the lines of Rossotrudnichestvo - the main conductor of the concept of "soft power" - largely uses the Soviet experience. It is expected that the main emphasis will be placed on increasing the number of Russian centers of science and culture (RCSC), work with compatriots and foreign youth. It is also planned to hold an International Festival of Youth and Students in Russia in 2017, as the USSR did in 1957 and 1985.

    Another area of ​​government work abroad will be the promotion of the Russian language. In particular, on the basis of the RCSC, it is planned to test foreigners for knowledge of the Russian language, and in a number of CIS countries to open language courses for labor migrants.

    It is supposed to attract foreigners to Russia on a regular basis. For example, it is envisaged to increase the quota of admission of foreigners to Russian universities.

    It is assumed that Rossotrudnichestvo and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should regularly report to the government on the implementation of the plan, comparing these results with the activity of other countries.
    Read more: http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2013/01/16/1081819.html

    It is high time good
  11. +9
    16 January 2013 11: 33
    In the days of the USSR, there really was bilingualism, and somehow not a single national language died out. Those who advocate the development of national languages ​​somehow forget that a language does not develop at a gallop. It cannot be forcibly developed, but it is possible to impose it. But this will give nothing for its development. having received a "command from above", some "active figures" will begin to introduce new terminology, which will be understood only by them alone. The way it happens in Ukraine - whatever you like, as long as it doesn't look like Russian.
    Midwife - Puporizka
    Centrifuge - Circlet
    Well, you can also borrow from "friends in Canada" who sincerely believe that they have real Ukrainian, not noticing how many English words have already entered their speech, and distorting the original version: map - mapa. I am not against officials speaking several languages, let people address them in the language that suits them. And officials are required to answer in the same language. But to demand from people that they apply to authorities in only one language is stupidity!
    I would like to remind all these figures that in the State of New York since 2009, the Russian language has been considered one of the state languages. And no one yells that English will die out because of this.
  12. Gogan
    +1
    16 January 2013 11: 59
    Both the Russian and Orthodox world are losing influence outside the borders of Russia and within the country.
  13. Region65
    -1
    16 January 2013 13: 20
    the author is hysterical? Yes Ker with them with Tajiks and Uzbeks! We must take care of Ukraine, Transnistria! Serbia in the end! Armenia and so on .....
  14. +1
    16 January 2013 13: 45
    Naturally, the concern of the republican authorities for the use of the national language in their republics. Who would like, incl. and in Russia, so that the titular nation, the native speaker, does not speak it well and does not care about its development. Another thing is the SECOND language in the republics of the CIS, and without it in today's world it is IMPOSSIBLE. Since there is still a significant number of Russian-speaking population in all these republics, they have every right to use it, but the breadth of its application is connected, and this can be seen in the example of Finland itself, due to how closely interconnected the economies of Russia and these republics are. The closer their ties, the more joint ventures with Russia, the greater the economic expansion of Russia in these republics, the greater the need for specialists of all levels who speak Russian. Plus, everyone who wants to come to work in Russia in the CIS republics MUST know the Russian language. These are the only motives that are capable of supporting the exclusive role of the Russian language in these republics and will force it to study. In another way, it is NOT possible to get Russian to learn Russian in the republics by directive or in other words without the prospect of its use!
    1. Region65
      0
      16 January 2013 15: 43
      I think all this is not so scary. because the government of Kazakhstan does not prohibit the Russian language, as it was recently in Ukraine and in a number of Baltic semi-semi-states.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        16 January 2013 17: 57
        In Kazakhstan, the Russian language is not only not banned, but it is also mandatory to teach it, starting from kindergarten along with the state language and English. From kindergarten until graduation. Even on the banknotes it is written on the one hand in Russian for the convenience of Russian-speaking Kazakhstanis.
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          16 January 2013 18: 12
          In Kazakhstan, government policy is aimed at ensuring that all Kazakhstanis are equally fluent in three languages ​​- Kazakh, Russian, and English. So far, only Kazakhs are successful in this regard. Most ethnic Russian Kazakhstanis do without knowledge of one language. In the official language, they cannot make a free sentence. At the same time, they live calmly, study and work, without experiencing any problems of a linguistic nature.
          After that, only an absolutely unaware person can claim that the Russian language supposedly in Kazakhstan needs protection. And even a government agency is required by law to respond to a citizen in the language in which the request was made by that citizen. So there are no problems for Russian Kazakhstanis. The vast majority of inscriptions in Kazakhstani cities are in Russian. Russian-language media absolutely dominate.
          We do not need to be aligned with Uzbekistan, Latvia, Georgia or Ukraine. We have a very sound language policy. Russia still needs to learn from us, and not to churn out articles about "the troubles of the Russian-speakers in connection with the Kazakh Latin alphabet."
  15. +3
    16 January 2013 14: 21
    When I laughed hearing how the Uzbeks speak Russian funny, my friend said to me reproachfully - "And you can speak Uzbek at least clumsily, maybe you know Turkmen or Tajik languages ​​clumsily, can you at least understand the essence of the Chechen or Moldavian language?" I replied no and thought!
    1. +4
      16 January 2013 14: 28
      What do you know Uzbek for? Or Turkmen? I’m also thinking now why should I know them ... It’s better then to learn English. And Russian is vital for them because they work here, and communicate here in Russian, I'm not going to Uzbekistan, and if I get together either English or Russian, I will understand some of these.
  16. +1
    16 January 2013 14: 43
    The fact of the matter is that many of us do not know English either! It’s a pity that they live there and work here - it’s probably time to pick them up by the Khans and Padishahs, who, under the guise of the CIS, so oppress their people!
    1. Sherssen
      0
      16 January 2013 14: 57
      You say “oppressed” ... 22% are already a national minority. And when are the rights of the national minorities interested in the national majority ??
  17. wax
    +3
    16 January 2013 14: 59
    The Central Asian states decided to say goodbye to their dependence on Russia, but it was the only one of its kind that allowed them to step into the civilized future in the shortest historical time from the Middle Ages. Soon they will lose their cadres, forget the Christian culture ... and history will show them the destructiveness of such a choice. However, they will no longer have a second chance to escape from backwardness.
  18. Sherssen
    0
    16 January 2013 15: 01
    When it is the interests of 22% (nat. Minorities) were interested in nat. most??
  19. Marek Rozny
    0
    16 January 2013 17: 48
    Since the article does not have a single intelligible figure regarding migration from Kazakhstan, I will fill this gap for those who are interested.

    In the Republic of Kazakhstan in 2011 happened surplus migration, which amounted to 5102 people, the number of arrivals in Kazakhstan amounted to 38 004 people, departures - 32 902 people.

    Among arrivals from the CIS countries In 2011, migrants from Uzbekistan - 64,9% and Russia - 21,3% have the largest share in the republic.
    Among those who left for the CIS countries in 2011, the largest share falls on Russia - 95,3%, Belarus - 2,5%, Ukraine - 0,9%.

    In general, on average 20-25-30 thousand people (5-6 thousand families) leave the KZ annually. The same number of people moving from Russia to KZ.
    In addition, it should be noted that labor migration from Russia to Kazakhstan is growing, which is noted by the Institute of Demography of the Higher School of Economics of Russia and the representative office of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of the Russian Federation in Kazakhstan.
    In a word, Kazakhstan simply out of ignorance or habit, the author mixed in a heap with other Central Asian states, in which demographic and migration problems are really observed. And in the KZ population is only increasing. There really are fewer Russians, but not because of migration to Russia, but simply the Kazakhs in their families have more children and traditionally lead a healthier lifestyle.
    1. sergey261180
      +1
      16 January 2013 18: 09
      By the way, I tried some Kazakh chocolate. So what we sell GUAVNO Chocolate was made according to the "Soviet" technology - it was REAL. Dear experts! The question is: will the cultural influence of those who sell guavno with the inscription "chocolate" in their home countries increase?
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        16 January 2013 18: 17
        Chocolate in KZ is made from 100% cocoa (Almaty factory "Rakhat", Kostanay "Bayan-Sulu"). Only the Karaganda factory ("Karaganda Sweets") makes both this and that - normal chocolate, and with additives-substitutes.
        Now all Kazakhstanis, when they go abroad, take chocolate as a souvenir. Even Europeans are not ashamed to give.
        1. GM.kz
          0
          18 January 2013 05: 50
          Cognac is also better with us and this is a fact!
  20. 916-th
    +3
    16 January 2013 21: 38
    From the article:
    In December, President N.A. Nazarbayev in his message “Strategy Kazakhstan-2050” instructed by 2025 to work out the issue of translating the Kazakh alphabet into Latin script. The language, according to the president, is one of the main consolidating factors of the Kazakh nation, and therefore it must be modern and actively used in all areas of society. For this, it is necessary not only to translate it into Latin script, but also to modernize the language itself in order to make it capable of performing communicative functions and have appropriate terminology for this.

    Language, like any other socio-cultural phenomenon, has form and content. They are closely related. Cyrillic or Latin is a form, a kind of "packing", "wrapper" of the language. First, the Kazakh language had Arabic packaging, then - Cyrillic, now they talk about the Latin wrapper. But in this case, I would like to draw attention not to the form, but to the content of the language - its conceptual apparatus.

    The conceptual apparatus of language is developed by the native people throughout its history. Perhaps, for some, this will seem seditious, but so far the Kazakh language, in isolation from the Russian language, in many respects continues to remain the language household communication. I will try to substantiate this thesis.

    1) The literary (written) Kazakh language took shape in the 2nd half of the XNUMXth century thanks to the activities of Kazakh enlighteners Abay Kunanbaev and Ibrai Altynsarin. Then the Arabic font was widely used. The conceptual apparatus of the language corresponded to the socio-historical level of development of the people - feudalism, a nomadic way of life.

    2) In 1929, already as part of the USSR, the Kazakh language was translated into Latin. The upsurge in the number of literary works that occurred after literacyare considered the golden age of Kazakh literature. In 1940, the Kazakh language was translated into Cyrillic. But the main thing is not in the "wrapper" of the language, but in the fact that during the Soviet period illiteracy was eliminated and, thanks to the industrialization of Kazakhstan, the conceptual apparatus of the language expanded in a revolutionary way, bringing the people to the level of scientific and technological progress. Naturally, this was done at the expense of the conceptual apparatus of the Russian language and with the help of the speakers of this language - the Russian people. The concepts of the Russian language have become a natural part of the Kazakh language, and there has been a close convergence of the two languages.

    3) Now we are told: "The Moor has done his job, the Moor can leave, the Kazakh language is self-sufficient." Perhaps he is self-sufficient, but only at the level of everyday communication - in bazaars, in public transport, in conversations with neighbors. In the bureaucratic environment, by the way, too - after all, there are mainly implemented samples of speech behavior according to the feudal type "buy / baskarma - subordinate / vassal". But listen to the conversation of Kazakh specialists in engineering and technical or scientific fields - pure Russian, and without a noticeable accent. People just think and speak in a language that is more convenient for this. And in spite of all sorts of instructions from above, education at major universities continues in Russian. Because it does not work otherwise, because it is impossible, for example, instead of the concept of "airfield" to introduce the concept of "a field where iron birds spend the night."

    Language is such a thing that in its development does not obey the "wishes" of the authorities, it obeys historical laws. And the history of the Kazakh language is closely connected with the Russian language, with its conceptual apparatus. It so happened in the XIX-XX centuries. And they want to change the "wrapper" - the flag in hand, if there are not enough other headaches.
    1. Marek Rozny
      -1
      17 January 2013 01: 38
      Stanislav, do you know the Kazakh language to discuss its lexical structure, "conceptual apparatus" and self-sufficiency?
      Can you write at least one paragraph from your message in Kazakh?
      1. 916-th
        +1
        17 January 2013 11: 22
        Marek Rozny:
        You know, Marek, I have been living in Kazakhstan since 1977, long enough to assimilate the Kazakh language and culture of the Kazakh people to a certain extent.

        My first wife, a Kazakh, was an obstinate woman, sharp in language, both Russian and Kazakh. So, her grandmother, she was a wise apa, taught me: “You don’t talk to her much, don’t need to. Say“ cop saleme, dombal cheesh! ”And she will become like silk”. You know it worked!

        Head Department of KazPI them. Abai, at whose disposal I was assigned after graduating from Moscow State University, at that time was writing a doctoral dissertation on abstract thinking among nomadic peoples. I helped him a little and, naturally, was familiar with the content of the work. So, using the example of cattle thieves (thieves) among the Kazakhs in the late XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries, he argued that the nomads possessed abstract thinking, in particular, such manifestations as reflection and the ability to take the position of another person (cattle owner, rushing to find thieves). He told me: "The Kazakhs do not have such concepts as reflection, attraction or empathy in their language. But they used these tools on an intuitive, familiar level." By the way, he defended himself in Moscow, at Moscow State University, and not here in Alma-Ata, he said that our local scientists would not understand this, there was no reliance on Marxism-Leninism.

        Indeed, it is more convenient for me to speak Russian on such topics - I do not know the great and mighty Kazakh language to such an extent. But if you are interested in questions of psycholinguistics - welcome to the PM.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +2
          17 January 2013 13: 47
          The fact that Kazakhs are not inclined to reflection is how to look. If the war - then the Kazakhs really do not care about blood and then nightmares will not pursue them. And if the Kazakh is abroad, then he will languish for homesickness, as the White Guard did not dream of.
          And about the fact that supposedly Kazakhs cannot put themselves in the place of another person - an absurdity. Otherwise, the Kazakhs would not revel in the experiences of the heroes of numerous oral love and military epics. And Kazakh culture is especially rich in this kind of creativity. Here you can juggle with concepts - a Chinese or an ancient Roman could not put himself in the place of a foreigner.
          If we talk about the fact that there were no conceptual words like "reflection, attraction and empathy", then you can get to the bottom of any language - up to Russian or German. The scientific vocabulary of the Russian language itself entirely consists of Latinisms, gallicisms, and Anglicisms.
          ZY Your knowledge of some phrases is commendable, but, of course, you wrote with mistakes, which looks like "lamprey ne razgivarivayt, turusy sinimayt". Even if you write using only the letters of the Russian alphabet, then: "kop soyleme, dombalyn shesh!" Thus, I conclude that you also do not know how to write in Kazakh (and even more so using specific Kazakh letters). So why are you personally concerned about the romanization of the Kazakh alphabet, if you don't know it in Cyrillic either? This topic does not affect the Russian-speaking world. And it is absurd to draw conclusions as the author of the article that this is supposedly a sign of the narrowing of the "Russian world". Concerned about the future of the Russian language, it would be better to direct their eyes to the displacement of Russian words by English. And that sentence "Site users are discussing about reflection and psycholinguistics" - sort of like in Russian on the one hand, but on the other ...
  21. vedruss
    +1
    16 January 2013 22: 01
    For all these stories with languages, someone’s State Department ears stick out ...
    As they say: we are a step from there - they are a step there ...
    All quarreled brothers and profit, competition - the mother of benefits.
  22. Marek Rozny
    +1
    17 January 2013 10: 38
    Q.E.D. One Russian Kazakh was asked to name cases of language problems, another Russian Kazakh was asked about knowledge of the Kazakh language in order to draw linguistic conclusions about it. The answer is predictable silence.
    Dear compatriots, may be enough to talk about "disability" and "lexical poverty" of the state language, if you do not know it at all. You might as well speculate about the vocabulary of Romanian, Korean, Afrikaans, or Swahili. With the same smart look.
    Today, the German writer Gerold Belger, the Russian akynsha Nadezhda Lushnikova, or even the athlete Marina Volnova, have every right to express an opinion on the beauty or inferiority of the Kazakh language, as they simply KNOW him. And you, alas, are not Belgians, or even expert linguists. They are more like people who have never seen or tried pilaf, but who reject the offer to even try this dish, they say, rice should not be the same, they say, there is not enough meat, carrots are wrong, and until they do as I imagine the ideal pilaf I will not eat. Only when everyone around you is full, and you remain hungry - do not blame anyone.
    1. 0
      17 January 2013 14: 00
      I don’t know about the Kazakh language)))) but by the time I remember, the Kazakhs were shooting well, some were aiming for the barrel (as we knew how, but we still neighing that probably grandfather had a karamultuk with a saw fly) but demons fell from AK-74 between by the way)))) we were surprised for a long time ......
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        17 January 2013 14: 22
        Quote: KIND
        I remember, Kazakhs shoot well

        such genetics. not only Kazakhs, but also all the steppe fighters shoot well - Bashkirs, Buryats, Kalmyks.
    2. 916-th
      +1
      17 January 2013 15: 14
      Marek: ... look like people who have never seen or tried pilaf

      Do you say pilaf? And what pilaf, in Ferghana or Bukhara, in Samarkand or maybe in Turkish? I don’t really like pilaf, I’ll get along with Siberian dumplings, or I’ll make borsch in Ukrainian, the same one that Nazarbayev ate and praised as a student at a vocational school in Dneprodzerzhinsk.

      And you cook the pilaf in Latin, just see how fast it turns out in the end as American food, or doner kebab in Turkish, or really Chinese instant noodles. Bon Appetit!
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        17 January 2013 16: 56
        You understood me perfectly. I can change my figurative expression and write instead of the word "pilaf" - "dumplings". The point is not in the name of the dish. You complained that the Kazakhs allegedly lacked abstract thinking, and you yourself argued over trifles regarding the particular details of the expression, pretending that you did not understand the whole phrase.
        And don't worry about the Kazakh language. Roughly speaking, these are not your problems, but politely explaining, let me remind you that over the past 100 years this will be the fourth alphabet among Kazakhs. Nor did they turn into Arabs, British, or Russians. According to your logic, Venezuelans turned into Americans, and Uzbeks into Turks because of their alphabet? It just annoys you that the Kazakhs make a decision without looking back at Moscow. Here on the site there is not a single Kazakh who would be against the transition to the Latin alphabet. And even more so, there are practically no Kazakhs who bylo by newozmozhno prochitat 'latinskimi bukwami ​​nadpis' na russkom ili kazahskom jazyke.
        1. 916-th
          +2
          17 January 2013 18: 40
          Marek: You understand me very well

          Really understood. But there is such a rule in positive communication - "mirror" your opponent. You have switched to figurative language, why should I stay within the usual informational presentation? There are "scissors" of communication, an extra risk of misunderstanding, loss of contact. Accordingly, I also switched to the metaphorical language of images. By the way, I am sure that you have understood it, there is no need to move the arrows. And about dumplings, and about the Ukrainian borscht that Nazarbayev ate, and about the rest of the dishes a la ...

          Regarding the manifestations of abstract thinking among the Kazakhs, you are distorting. Read the post in which I talk about my doctoral dissertation carefully. It emphasizes that nomadic peoples in the late XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries possessed similar thinking, but it manifested itself in accordance with their way of life. Or are you against the definition of "nomadic people" as applied to the Kazakhs of that period? Let's decide!

          And as a wish: let's decide on the whole how our points of view converge, and in what, on the contrary, diverge. And if you have already allowed yourself the Latin alphabet at the end of the post, I also consider myself entitled to answer in approximately the same vein: Lets concentrate our efforts on our common strength rather than our differencies.
      2. GM.kz
        0
        18 January 2013 05: 56
        said beautifully !!!