Red Dragon Awakens

120

December 29 Chinese news agency Xinhua published a rating of the most significant events that occurred in the PRC for 2012 year. The fourth line of this list was occupied by the success of China in the military arena. This year, the Chinese are more actively involved in the struggle with Japan and with a number of states in Southeast Asia for the disputed territories in the East China and South China seas. The apotheosis of this confrontation was the adoption of the first Chinese aircraft carrier "Liaoning", built on the basis of the aircraft carrier cruiser Varyag bought from Ukraine.

When our national symbol “Aurora” was flooded with sewage, when the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier “broke” after a long overhaul in the Barents Sea, when the Ka-27 helicopter crashed onto the deck of the Peter the Great heavy nuclear missile cruiser, China spent on the high seas dozens of deck tests aviation.

The fate of the Soviet "Varyag", renamed in honor of the Chinese northeastern province, where it was modernized, is as sad as the rest of the destroyed Soviet aircraft carriers. In the 93 year, the unfinished cruiser went to Ukraine, where it was mothballed due to a lack of funds for the construction on the territory of the Black Sea shipbuilding plant in the city of Nikolaev. In 1998, the Chinese company Chong Lot Travel Agency Ltd for the entire 20 of millions of dollars bought Varyag from Ukraine, ostensibly “on needles”.

В history shipbuilding this event was included as a kind of “Guinness record”, since it is simply impossible to acquire an aircraft carrier built on 70% for such a ridiculous amount. By the way, only the modernization of the Gorshkov sold to India cost 2,3 a billion dollars. And the cost price of one such floating base in the USA exceeds 10 billion dollars.

Amid the ongoing collapse of the Russian military-industrial complex, China is deeply modernizing its army and fleet. In connection with this program, the new Chinese aircraft carrier will be used for the first time to train crews and specialists, as well as for naval exercises. And by 2020, as stated by the PRC government, China will complete the construction of several of its own ships of this type. The appearance in the Pacific Ocean of a new powerful aircraft carrier group will significantly affect the alignment of forces in this region, where 10 aircraft carriers of NATO countries are concentrated.

“China must break the naval blockade by international forces. And only after completing this task, we can talk about the revival of China. The future great China will rise out of the ocean, ”General Wen Tsonggren, political commissar of the Academy of Military Sciences of the People’s Liberation Army of the People's Republic of China (PLA), said in his report.

China is actively diversifying its military technology, and its industrial espionage has no equal. Even without purchasing imported samples of weapons "on trial", the Chinese manage to create exact copies of both the Soviet and NATO weapons. For example, the Russian SZRCH Smerch in the Chinese army is called the A-100, the FD-2000 air defense system resembles our C-300, French Crotale air defense system in China - Hunzi-7, the Swiss anti-aircraft gun Oerlikon GDF "-" Type 90 ", etc.

Of course, one can reasonably argue that the Chinese counterparts of Russian weapons do not withstand any competition with domestic prototypes. However, unlike the Russian Federation, China is able to provide these numerous copies with proper content. “In Russia, it has reached the point that aerospace defense forces are sorely lacking ammunition. The C-300 air defense system accounts for less than one set of missiles per installation, and there should be two in reserve, ”said Army General Anatoly Kornukov, the former commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force.

The former Soviet cruiser was an excellent foundation for creating the future aircraft carrier of the PRC. During 5 years, Chinese engineers and scientists only studied Varyag, and already in 2007, the State Committee for the Defense Science and Technology of China officially announced that China was able to build an aircraft carrier on its own. In addition, recently it became known that the commander of "Liaoning" Captain Li Xiaoyan just a few years ago graduated from the Naval Academy. N.G. Kuznetsova, and the diploma work of the Chinese officer was just devoted to the tactics of carrier strike groups.

“The statements of the Chinese authorities on the construction of their own atomic aircraft carrier fleet are fully justified, since the booming military-industrial complex of China will undoubtedly draw these expensive projects. We were in a situation in which we simply must build aircraft carriers. Without them, Russia is unable to participate in local conflicts and exert political pressure on other countries, ”says Nikolai Novichkov, chief editor of the ARMS-TASS news agency.

At the same time, some Russian military officials openly advocate the use of foreign parts in domestic shipbuilding. “If the leadership of the Russian Ministry of Defense believed in the potential of domestic shipbuilders, and they would be trusted with the design and construction of modern warships, this would be an indicator of Russia's return to the status of a great power. However, it is well known that at present the Russian Defense Ministry is increasingly cooperating with foreign companies for the purchase of advanced military technologies, ”writes Richard Weitz, senior researcher and director of the Center for Military-Political Analysis at the Hudson Institute in Washington.

So last year, then still commander-in-chief of the Russian Navy, Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky demanded to consider the possibility of installing imported diesel engines, ventilation systems and weapons, in particular French and Italian artillery, on new Russian warships. These statements were made against the background of the tests of the newest domestic ship guns A-192M “Armat”, which were then underway.

"Further purchases of foreign weapons will lead to the final degradation of our military-industrial complex, and if today we proceed to the purchase of ship engines, we will bury the shipbuilding industry," said Konstantin Sivkov, captain of the 1 rank.

While Communist China is actively copying foreign weapons and technologies for the purpose of their independent production, the Russian leaders, while buying French Mistrals, are not at all determined by the plans to build domestic aircraft carriers. In 2008, President Dmitry Medvedev spoke about the possibility of building such a fleet. Soon, Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov denied this information, noting that aircraft construction does not include plans for the military. His words were confirmed by Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov.

However, this year, at his press conference on July 26, on the question of journalists about the new aircraft carrier, Vice-Admiral Viktor Chirkov, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy, made a diametrically opposite statement: “The technical design of the new aircraft carrier for the Russian Navy is currently being developed in accordance with the state armament program before 2020 of the year. And the question of directly building the ship will be considered only after 2020 of the year. ”

The head of the press service of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Andrei Kravchenko confirmed this information in a telephone conversation: “Of course, Russia needs nuclear aircraft carriers, but such vessels do not exist alone, each of them must be provided with a full-fledged attack group consisting of cover ships, submarines and aircraft . We also need to create a material base on land to provide these compounds. ” According to the expert, Russia has the capacity to implement such a project, but so far it is only at the discussion stage in the highest echelons of power. The press service of Sevmash answered the question about the planned construction of aircraft carriers and said that the company did not know anything about it.

In a situation in which Russia is unable to maintain even its old Soviet aircraft carriers, sold out for hotels or sawn into scrap metal, it is still very early to talk about building new ships. Yesterday's superpower is 22-th place in the world in the number of construction sites for ships. In this regard, independent military experts believe that if such a project is implemented, its construction will be complicated by the collapsed military-industrial complex infrastructure. In the USSR, this kind of ships were laid in shipyards in the city of Nikolaev, which now belongs to Ukraine. Aircraft carriers can build on Sevmash, but only by modular assembly.

Even the flagship of the Russian Navy, the aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov, does not have its own base. The aircraft carrier, while in Severomorsk, stands at the pier. Over the 20 years of operation, the strike air group of the cruiser has never been fully equipped, nor has a full-fledged aircraft carrier connection ever been formed.

It is impossible to stop the growth of the military-technical potential of the PRC. By upgrading its military-industrial complex at a frantic pace, and, in particular, by creating its own aircraft carrier fleet, the PLA guarantees itself security in the future against US intervention in its possible local border conflicts with Taiwan, Japan and Russia. According to the new military doctrine, only China’s maritime security zone goes two thousand miles deep into the Pacific Ocean “to ensure the fundamental national interests of the PRC.”

Former commander of the legendary 58-Army Lieutenant-General Viktor Sobolev believes that the Russian Armed Forces today are not able to resist the eastern neighbor: “Our whole army today is 39 brigades, that's about 10 divisions. For comparison, in June 41-oh we had more than three hundred divisions. And from Ulan-Ude to Belogorsk on the 3 thousands of kilometers of the border with China in general is only one brigade. The advancing Chinese will not even look for a handful of our soldiers in the forest. After the Transsib is cut by the enemy, the reinforcements beyond the Urals will get under their own power only after two and a half months. ”

In order to coexist on equal terms with such a powerful neighbor, Russia alone is not enough. The key to preserving the military balance in the Far East is the creation of a powerful aircraft carrier fleet, ready to defend national interests anywhere in the world. Whether Russia is able, after two troubled decades, to pull this expensive project, which requires not only solving the most complex organizational issues, but also the political will of the country's leadership, time will tell. However, one should not forget that in the Celestial Empire itself the theme of five million square kilometers of Chinese land “occupied by foreign states” is systematically exaggerated.
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  1. albanec
    +9
    14 January 2013 11: 17
    Amid the ongoing collapse of the Russian military-industrial complex ..
    Oh? belay
    1. +3
      14 January 2013 11: 36
      bullshit again write ..... ugh - minus
      1. rolik
        +6
        14 January 2013 13: 06
        Quote: afire
        again bullshit write

        Another alarmist article. And not to offer something sensible, they continue to howl about the missing past, future and present. Yes, we are talking about ... whether a union, then we need to draw conclusions and move forward. So that no Sam, Georgie and others could give us their "smart!" advice on how to arrange our life. And for this you do not need to whine, you just need to do their own work to recreate a strong basis for the country. Sooner or later, the temporary workers will leave like dirty water, and the country will remain. But how it will be to live in this country depends on us. And it is not necessary to go out with a white gauze on the sleeve. There are many other ways to make a sluggish bureaucrat or cop perform their duties normally. There is enough leverage for this.
        1. Sergh
          +2
          14 January 2013 15: 34
          Quote: rolik
          Another alarmist article

          This is the correspondent Roman Akolsin, I don’t know, the real surname or not, but I couldn’t find the data on it. I glanced through his other articles, throwing dirty laundry everywhere, photographs of dirty porches in five-story buildings, the living conditions of unsupervised apartments (although I repair my own) and the search for extreme ones. In short, this is an ordinary match, earning yourself a cheap rating on the obseriya of all in a row looking for the negative in everything. More often, it takes data from the ceiling to make a stunning impression (5 million km² of Chinese land).
          Well, somewhere I defined it that way.
      2. +1
        14 January 2013 13: 46
        Quote: afire
        bullshit again write ..... ugh - minus

        I agree completely !!!
        Quote: afire
        To coexist on equal terms with such a powerful neighbor, Russia alone is not enough.

        partially agree
        Quote: afire
        The key to maintaining military balance in the Far East is the creation of a powerful aircraft carrier fleet, ready to defend national interests anywhere in the world.

        and this is sorry BRED - in the war with China, the aircraft carrier will not play any role since attacking Russia from the sea substituting the landing force under the echeloned coastline defense (the far boundary is the fleet, the middle is land-based anti-ship missiles, the near - coast artillery) there is no point when you can attack by land - the article was clearly written by an alarmist not versed in military strategy ...-!
      3. beech
        +4
        14 January 2013 14: 50
        By and large, the truth is, China has become very strong, and we are also pushing them to modern technology, supplying engines ... About our fleet: But weren't these incidents? We must face the truth - our fleet is already a bit old ... but minus the article from me, because not everything is as bad as shown in the article!
      4. +3
        14 January 2013 18: 54
        The article is certainly too dark, but there is some truth in it. It is no secret that we have few troops in the Far East, just as China has the strongest group on our border. That all our aircraft carriers, with the exception of Kuznetsov, have been sold is true. The former "Minsk" and "Novorossiysk" in China are like entertainment establishments, most importantly with planes on the deck. Who will be in China can visit.
    2. +7
      14 January 2013 11: 58
      Quote: albanec
      Amid the ongoing collapse of the Russian military-industrial complex ..
      Oh oh belay

      This is no longer a question.
      Quote: "However, do not forget that in the Celestial Empire itself, the topic of five million square kilometers of Chinese land" occupied by foreign states "is systematically discussed
      There remains only a choice with two options: Or build a REAL aircraft carrier, and strengthen the borders. Or become China, the United States or someone else, a choice! A nation that does not feed its army will feed a stranger. The president and the government must make decisions as quickly as possible, otherwise the choice will consist of one option! soldier
      1. -2
        14 January 2013 12: 20
        Quote: GSH-18
        The theme of five million square kilometers of Chinese land "occupied by foreign states" is discussed systematically

        I wonder where the quote comes from, can you give a link? This is what 5 million km2, this is a rather rather big piece, not Taiwan :)
        1. +1
          14 January 2013 12: 46
          Quote: Egen
          I wonder where the quote comes from, can you give a link? This is what 5 million km2, this is a rather rather big piece, not Taiwan :)

          Quote from the article. She's on top.
          It is not clear about whose earthling we are talking about?
          1. +1
            14 January 2013 13: 22
            Quote: GSH-18
            Quote from the article

            but no, that’s understandable :), I'm talking about the primary sources :)
            It is not clear to them why the Primorsky Territory, as described below? Explain pliz, what do you have valuable there? Here we have gas today, and you? :)))
            Seriously, in China, people are concentrated more in the southern and coastal provinces, and their north is not so densely. The Chinese themselves whom they met do not want to live in their north, they say coldly.
            1. +4
              14 January 2013 14: 10
              Quote: Egen
              Seriously, in China, people are concentrated more in the southern and coastal provinces, and their north is not so densely. The Chinese themselves whom they met do not want to live in their north, they say coldly.

              It’s not a matter of "wanting or not wanting" to live further north. Think of the Soviet-era cross-border armed incidents with China. This is the "eastern policy" of an Asian country. Think about it, we will be friends with China as long as China needs it! Can Russia agree with this state of affairs? In general, the question itself is, why am I China Primorsky Krai? brings a smile. Why does Japan need our islands (they are also to the north)?
              1. 0
                14 January 2013 16: 08
                I agree, you're right.
                Quote: GSH-18
                In general, the question itself is why do I use the coastal region? evokes a smile. Why does Japan need our islands (they are also north)

                Yes, I also can’t understand. Economic benefits are far less than chores. A matter of prestige, you know, to overcome Russia ...
              2. brr77
                +2
                14 January 2013 17: 53
                This is the "eastern policy" of an Asian country. Think about it, we will be friends with China as long as China needs it! Can Russia agree with this state of affairs?

                So we have already fought with China, it seems that now, according to the Old Slavonic calendar, 7000 is some year from the Creation of the World in the Star Temple (SMZH). Just Toda and ended the war with ancient China. We have on the arms of Russia a warrior slaying a dragon (Ancient Russia defeated China)
      2. Skiff
        -3
        14 January 2013 13: 35
        Well, yes, he woke up, it took a thousand years to wake up, so you look and the Zulus will awaken in 800 years, the article is vomit.
    3. webdog
      +17
      14 January 2013 13: 03
      Sorry, that is not the topic, but the video is interesting.
      statement of enemies about our soldiers and our special forces ...
      this is what the enemies say.
      1. Guun
        0
        14 January 2013 13: 18
        A good video, I always didn’t understand people who make bloody killer terrorists from the Taliban. The Taliban generally respect strong rivals and willingly adopt their fighting style. The experience gained by the Taliban against the USSR is enormous, the United States and the NATO are not in vain. Therefore, I did not speak and say that if there will be a provocation against the Taliban from the side of the Republic of Kazakhstan, they will come and show little to anyone. My opinion is better to be friends with the Taliban, because such a partisan army can be transferred to the west so that they avenge the death of their families. Even in the United States where there are enough mountains.
      2. Guun
        +3
        14 January 2013 14: 15
        Quote: webdog
        this is what the enemies say.

        It’s like they’re not fighting the Taliban of the RF Armed Forces. The Germans were also enemies, but the war was over, as well as with the Taliban. Former opponents have to write.
      3. Grey74
        0
        14 January 2013 16: 04
        Good vidyuha. One question, do we have faith?
        1. Guun
          +1
          14 January 2013 17: 09
          I don’t know about the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation but I am 100% sure that there is no faith in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan. During the war, there should be a reason for what you are fighting for.
      4. The comment was deleted.
        1. Guun
          0
          15 January 2013 14: 24
          Well, go and defeat them, but just don’t get it, and the bulldozers will burn. It’s obvious that you don’t know about the Taliban. Those who fought in Afghanistan will not go back, and it’s not the Taliban who distribute drugs to you, but those who occupied their territory, it’s the oligarchs. so that they live in a world GO TO A FOREIGN LEGION AND SHOW WHAT YOU ARE Cool! Here's a link go fight with the Taliban http://www.legion-recrute.com/en/condition.php?SM=111
          You
          Quote: Shulz-1955
          fuck ...

          The hero behind the monitor ble.
    4. Grey74
      -4
      14 January 2013 15: 52
      What is OH? no, we don't have it
  2. ughhh
    +9
    14 January 2013 11: 19
    and the article is shit!
    1. +2
      14 January 2013 11: 50
      ughhh,
      The article is very old, since Serdyukovsky times
      1. Grey74
        +2
        14 January 2013 16: 05
        And what has changed so much since Serdyukov’s time? Have you created a new army?
    2. +4
      14 January 2013 11: 53
      An article is an article, but you need to wind it up. At any moment, a friend can turn into an enemy and must be on the alert. fool
      1. +7
        14 January 2013 14: 13
        Quote: Simon
        . At any moment, a friend can turn into an enemy and must be on the alert.

        China has never had friends and never will have friends. They follow one old legend in their foreign policy doctrine, the essence of which is as follows. China is likened to it by a wise monkey sitting on a tree and watching two tigers fight over prey when tigers weaken she descends from the tree and takes prey for herself. So one tiger (USSR) rested in a Bose, there was a similarity, the second one is also not in the best condition, the time has come for the monkey to come down from the tree. A wise monkey turns into an aggressive gorilla, who will give her a kick, which would drive back onto a tree Ativ few docile monkeys until neizvestno.No legend has continued, which is very much like in China and try not vspominat.Ochnuvshiysya or resurrected tiger, it all depends on the transfer, tears monkey to pieces as soon as it touches the production.
    3. +1
      14 January 2013 12: 12
      ughhh,
      Quote: ughhh
      and the article is shit!

      Both the article and the author.
      The topic itself is not worth a damn, you still need to get to the Trans-Siberian Railway, and China’s divisions are bigger anyway, and this is not news, no one is going to compete wall to wall with China.
      And to collect burnt meat and a pair of brigades is enough laughing
    4. Lapaev mihail
      +6
      14 January 2013 12: 31
      Yes, the guys are hurt, yes we are PPC how strong !!! and everything is better with us .... but deep down you probably must understand that the years of Gorbachev perestroika and Yeltsin’s reform didn’t pass for the army in vain + an effective stool, so part of the article isn’t shit at all, China is moving forward, and it remains to be hoped that we will everything will not be bad; however, the movement began to receive samples of new technology, all the same, they replaced Taburetkin with a completely sensible shoigu and his past work showed how effective he is ... I'm not a military man all the information is only from an Internet of acquaintances and news, military guys write pl then, in fact, what happens on the ground is whether the equipment comes, as with contentment, etc., it is better to learn everything from you !!!
      1. Guun
        +4
        14 January 2013 12: 53
        I’ll answer from the Kazakh side. China will seize the territory of the Republic of RK in a week, the powerful group of PLA border guards is technically higher in all respects, our example is on horseback and the Chinese on motorcycles and ATVs. I can’t tell you how much equipment there, but the number of PLA border guards is 1. I didn’t know about the Chinese about hazing there, and we have very bad things in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan. So, the PLA invasion, if this happens at night, there will be no one to stop and the lost territory will be 70% in 000 hours.
        1. 0
          14 January 2013 13: 24
          Well, I don’t know, on the one hand, you’re right, but on 1, they won’t capture these 2%, or bicycles :), but on motorcycles they just IMHO will not have enough logistics to provide so much on time ...
          1. Guun
            0
            14 January 2013 14: 19
            A massive landing, plus motorized brigades. The main thing is to capture Alma-Ata, Taldykorgan, Ust-Kamenogorsk, then the capture of Balkhash and Karaganda. The military bases will be swept away, the army will just fail to prepare. Bribing officials will play a major role here. Air defense will be disconnected and the PLA will drink tea in Karaganda. Loyalty of power in the Republic of Kazakhstan is a joke.
            1. +1
              14 January 2013 16: 10
              and you about Kazakhstan, sorry, I didn’t understand the work in the turmoil, but I about Siberia, far away ...
            2. 0
              14 January 2013 16: 14
              Guun

              Well, you’re terrified!

              I wonder what kind of officials can turn off your anti-aircraft defense so that no one knows about it ???
              And the officers didn’t report on this fact!
              Most likely they will send this gentleman ............... (to a special department)!

              Such a trick can be done with, say, paratroopers! On the eve of the strike, under the pretext of the exercises, remove them 150 kilometers from the direction of the main strike!

              But this number will not work either with border guards or with air defense! The air defense has a strict submission anyhow who does not give orders there! And turning off even one air defense element is a whole procedure with confirmation of orders!

              And where will the air defense of the Russian Federation go into the integrated regional system ???
              1. Guun
                -1
                14 January 2013 17: 14
                I did not include air defense of the Russian Federation, it was only about the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan. Well, it’s not for me to tell you how our equipment was sold abroad.
                Quote: SergeySK
                The air defense has a strict submission anyhow who does not give orders there! And turning off even one air defense element is a whole procedure with confirmation of orders!

                Well, you don’t know our Armed Forces, our paratroopers built houses in Alma-Ata, and how our generals managed to make simple words from the shepherd’s internal, there aren’t a lot of such examples.
        2. SSR
          0
          14 January 2013 16: 38
          Quote: Guun
          I didn’t serve the Chinese about hazing

          The Chinese go on demobilization ...

          Quote: Guun
          I didn’t serve the Chinese about hazing
          1. SSR
            +1
            14 January 2013 16: 58
            eh .. clumsily posted everything ((
            Not everybody is taken to the PLA Army .... and to every serving preference upon admission to the university and placement in the civil service ... each rank is an additional preference ...
        3. brr77
          +1
          14 January 2013 17: 58
          Yes, in you in RK almost all of the industry is PEACEFULLY bought up by China. Just do not be offended, but is that so?
          1. Guun
            0
            15 January 2013 14: 25
            They started to buy up.
  3. +6
    14 January 2013 11: 25
    The key to maintaining military balance in the Far East is the creation of a powerful aircraft carrier fleet, ready to defend national interests anywhere in the world.

    I did not like the article, but I completely agree with this statement!
    1. albanec
      +2
      14 January 2013 11: 45
      We went the other way and chose submarines; aircraft carriers are not our method. Expensive!
      1. +4
        14 January 2013 12: 11
        Quote: albanec
        aircraft carriers are not our method.

        It was.
        The new political situation and the alignment of forces require their presence. Without aircraft carrier formations, Russia will not be able to effectively conduct its foreign policy. This is a no brainer. An aircraft carrier fleet is an integral attribute of a great state that everyone reckons with. Russia should be among them!
    2. +2
      14 January 2013 11: 48
      Quote: omsbon
      The key to maintaining military balance in the Far East is the creation of a powerful aircraft carrier fleet, ready to defend national interests anywhere in the world.
      I did not like the article, but I completely agree with this statement!

      Dear, let me draw your attention to one small fact that you apparently overlooked:
      At present, the Russian-Chinese border consists of two sections - an extended section in which the following subjects of the Russian Federation border the Heilongjiang Province and the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region of the PRC: Primorsky Territory, Khabarovsk Territory, Jewish Autonomous Region, Amur and Chita Regions (4325 km) , and a small section of the border between the Altai Republic and the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region (55 km).
      The western part of the Russian-Chinese border is located at the junction of the Southern Altai, Mongolian Altai and Saylyugem ranges, where the Tabyn-Bogdo-Ula mountain junction (4082 m) is located, i.e. this is a very inaccessible section of the border. The eastern section runs along the mountain ranges of Transbaikalia, then along the rivers Argun, Amur, Ussuri and its left tributary Sungach. Over 80% of the Russian-Chinese border crosses rivers

      in these conditions, the need for a powerful aircraft carrier fleet to protect the borders is the same nonsense as "a submarine in the steppes of Ukraine" !!!
      1. 0
        14 January 2013 12: 17
        Quote: dirty trick
        in these conditions, the need for a powerful aircraft carrier fleet to protect the borders is the same nonsense as "a submarine in the steppes of Ukraine" !!!


        But why, it’s not just about China. If we consider the presence of naval groups in the Far East, then China IMHO there is practically no one and call him not how, is not it? At present, China is a border and land conflicts; we have nothing to share the sea with them. The main adversary at the IMHO theater of operations as the United States was and remains, therefore, the consideration of a full-scale military conflict with sea participation is possible only with the United States.
        Given that war is a continuation of politics (and that of economics), Japan is nevertheless better to trade with us than to fight.
        Besides. ACGs are created to protect the interests of the country in remote areas. What are our interests in the Indian and Pacific Oceans? IMHO only as a market for the sale of weapons, and the sale of our raw materials is a drop in the ocean in their needs.
        1. +4
          14 January 2013 12: 34
          Quote: Egen
          The main enemy on the theater IMHO as there were the United States and remained,


          I would have dropped the samurai from the account, on the Pacific Theater they already jumped us
          4 multi-purpose diesel-electric Harusio
          11 diesel-electric submarines of the Oyashio type
          3 diesel-electric submarines “Soryu”
          8 destroyers URO,
          32 destroyers of four types:
          2 destroyer-helicopter carrier "Shirane" (1979-1980 built).
          2 destroyer-helicopter carrier (according to another version - an aircraft carrier-helicopter carrier) of the "Hyuga" type.
          6 frigates URO type "Abukuma" with a displacement of 2000 tons, the construction of which was completed in 1993. These ships are equipped with Harpoon anti-ship missiles, ASROC missile launchers, 76-mm anti-ship guns, Falanks missile launchers, and two three-pipe TAs.

          Landing ships are represented by landing helicopter dock ships (DVKD), as well as small landing ships (MDK) of the "Jura" type. In the Japanese Navy, landing ships are called "transport ships."

          DVKD Osumi

          DVDKD LST-4001 "Osumi"

          3 DVKD type "Osumi" with a standard displacement of 8900 tons have a relatively large landing capacity and can carry two hovercraft (LCAC) as an amphibious landing craft.

          2 MDK types of "Jura" have a standard displacement of 590 tons and are capable of transporting up to four cars and 70 marines. There are also 2 landing craft of Project 1 with a displacement of 420 tons.

          The mine-sweeping forces of Japan comprise 3 sea minesweepers of the Yaeyama type, 1 mine-trap and 2 floating minesweepers of the Muraga type, 25 mine-sweeping boats of various projects (Hirasima, Hatsushima, Uvadzima "," Sugashima "). The minesweepers are equipped with contact, acoustic and electromagnetic trawls, remotely controlled mine action vehicles and mine-search sonar stations.

          Combat boats are few in number and are represented by 6 Hayabusa missile boats (built in 2002-2004, with a displacement of 200 tons) armed with four SSR-1B anti-ship missiles and 76 mm AU OTO Melara.
          1. -2
            14 January 2013 13: 36
            I do not know about "overtook us", but for a serious mess this is all garbage. Only with Chinese fishermen to argue :)
            Although this is IMHO, again I don’t know the performance characteristics, sorry I was 10 years behind life :( But as far as I know, despite the advancement of Japan in civilian technologies, they lagged behind in the military. The general composition of the fleet does not say anything, everything is put together Of course, this cannot be assembled, in reality, with proper cover and support, it will be possible to carry out only a small landing operation. Against the Russian Federation, it's not serious IMHO. That is why these troops are called "self-defense forces" :) Although I agree that they should be discounted all it's not worth it ...
      2. +1
        14 January 2013 12: 19
        Quote: dirty trick
        in these conditions, the need for a powerful aircraft carrier fleet to protect the borders is the same nonsense as "a submarine in the steppes of Ukraine" !!!

        So then it is. But do not forget that the aircraft carrier can be flown anywhere in the coast of China and create major trouble within a radius of 2000 km on the territory of the enemy, or simply effectively protect our island territories! It's about that. And the defense of the border should be carried out by the army. What may not be clear here?
    3. nagi
      0
      14 January 2013 22: 48
      Agree in vain during defensive actions. Working with an airfield covered by ground-based air defense is easier than with an aircraft carrier. The presence of aircraft carriers without aircraft does not give anything. If there is an air grouping of 200 aircraft for aircraft carriers, let’s say then it’s easier to buy 200 aircraft for the place of the aircraft carriers themselves and there will be more sense. About the points of the globe, I wonder if this is about which speech? within the framework of our mainland, it is possible to reach all enemies on the earth, only the states outside the mainland, but not to go to Africa to get blacks for slave labor. That is, we will never be able to have an attack fleet that we could oppose NATO, and a battle with the NATO fleet entails a state of war in which the enemy must be beaten, and why beat him somewhere when he is with us on the motherfucker? It’s easier then to move to Europe through Poland than dozens of aircraft carriers to build.
  4. Roomata
    -2
    14 January 2013 11: 26
    When our national Aurora symbol flooded with sewage, when the aircraft carrying cruiser Admiral Gorshkov crashed in the Barents Sea after years of major overhaul, when the Ka-27 helicopter crashed onto the deck of the Peter the Great heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser, China navigated in the open sea dozens of tests with the use of deck aircraft.
    1. +2
      14 January 2013 13: 00
      Think, what are you doing! Or do you think only in Russia there are disasters of this nature? (!) - if you think so - you m ... to.
      But China began to use its carrier-based aviation relatively recently. And in the first fighter, he landed on our former aircraft carrier last year !!!

      Remember this! And never say that.

      Because people die in every country, in every country there are accidents and other bad things.
  5. +1
    14 January 2013 11: 29
    The article is not about anything. Feels someone's language in the Chinese opera!
  6. +4
    14 January 2013 11: 30
    The article is interesting, thank you very much. Perhaps the next ones to clone Su-35, if they decide to sell it to China. Although I think that common sense will prevail and it will not be sold. China is becoming stronger, we must also strengthen the army in that region, as opposed to them. Now the question is what the specialists wrote below, could this be true or not? Before the new year, he rode the train home. One of the fellow travelers told a story. In 1995, she served (worked) in one unit, in the Far East. And then the units were withdrawn from their locations and deployed in the direction of China. According to her, it was all very scary, especially for the children. Now she has moved to St. Petersburg.
    1. 0
      14 January 2013 12: 01
      Quote: Karpv
      In 1995

      and what we had in the 95th, some tensions with China? I do not remember. In 2007, our carriage in Manzhuli got stuck for a month due to maneuvers, the border was closed, but there were no planned ones, especially at the beginning of 2008, I remember the Chinese were very interested in the upcoming changes because of Medvedev’s elections, all Chinese the newspapers were full of photos.
  7. +1
    14 January 2013 11: 33
    there is enough foam in fire extinguishers in Russia for the red dragon ...... and we also have a sword for amputation of an overheated head
    1. +8
      14 January 2013 12: 34
      Quote: strannik595
      there is enough foam in fire extinguishers in Russia for the red dragon ...... and we also have a sword for amputation of an overheated head

      Excessive bravado always indicates either underestimation or incompetence.
      Today, China is our friend, but tomorrow, who knows? We must be prepared for this. History knows precedents. soldier
      1. +6
        14 January 2013 12: 42
        Quote: GSH-18
        Today, China is our friend,

        I don’t think, rather, a greedy partner, jabbing everything, from the forest to technology
        1. +2
          14 January 2013 12: 57
          Quote: Vadivak
          Quote: GSH-18
          Today, China is our friend,

          I don’t think, rather, a greedy partner, jabbing everything, from the forest to technology

          And he goes beyond IT, loyal (for now) to Russia in his foreign policy. But this cannot always go on. If you do nothing, any scenario will be negative for us.
  8. -2
    14 January 2013 11: 43
    The author, do not write nonsense !!! Or are you one of those who think "everything is asking .... whether". The Chinese will cross the border, so you gave up! Funny !!!
  9. fenix57
    +1
    14 January 2013 11: 46
    What the B ... VO? second day. Article ------. "DRAGON WAS ONLY..,? BUT THE BEAR DIDN'T SLEEP "! soldier
  10. anchonsha
    +1
    14 January 2013 11: 49
    The author of the article is a complete pessimist, just like the hamsters in our networks. The worse the country is, the more dirt is poured on it, referring to bad, stolen officials. And the same thieves themselves, but on a smaller scale. So the author sees the good in China, and Russia is covered with ashes.
  11. satellite
    0
    14 January 2013 11: 49
    The author of the article offers Russia to get involved in a military race with China. It seems to me an impermissible luxury. It is necessary to begin with that ordinary people in the country receive not 12000 rubles, but 40000 rubles, then it will be possible to risk such projects and this is a feast during the plague.
    1. +1
      14 January 2013 12: 42
      Quote: satelite
      The author of the article offers Russia to get involved in a military race with China. It seems to me an impermissible luxury. It is necessary to begin with that ordinary people in the country receive not 12000 rubles, but 40000 rubles, then it will be possible to risk such projects and this is a feast during the plague.


      laughing You want to say, why do we need modernization of the army? Give this money to us, we will buy cars and cottages on them ??! Are you out of your mind? fool
  12. 0
    14 January 2013 11: 53
    It seems that the article was written 10-15 years ago (well, everything was very bad). But everything flows - everything changes, only in 2012 for the RF Armed Forces there were many pleasant and joyful events! fellow
  13. +1
    14 January 2013 11: 53
    Yes, China’s military reinforcement is a legitimate concern. But in the Russian army in recent years there have been positive changes, and the collapse in my opinion no longer smells. Here the author clearly exaggerated. Maybe he does not agree with the military doctrine of Russia, he has specific proposals? Ready to listen to them.
    1. +1
      14 January 2013 12: 07
      Quote: bistrov.
      positive changes have been taking place in the Russian army lately


      In the army, we hear about changes, but we do not see, but we hope. But in the defense industry, yes. Recently I read in a newspaper an interview with the director of the united company, which built new submarines (1 was put into operation and 1 was lowered), that they have government orders for boats for either 8 or 10 years, I forgot that it was ensured, which has not happened since the times of the USSR which any foreign company can envy. This is a fact, and very even "non-breakup" :)))
      1. 0
        14 January 2013 13: 05
        Quote: Egen
        an interview with the director of the combined company that built new submarines (1 put into operation and 1 lowered) that they have state orders for boats for 8 or 10 years,

        It is very pleasing. Still, the aircraft carrier would have laid a new one. It is an aircraft carrier, and not an aircraft carrier cruiser. Laughing American admirals. request
        1. PLO
          0
          14 January 2013 14: 26
          why don't you like aircraft carrier cruisers?
          Yes, and why do we need this assault, let them first practice on Kuz, put the catapults, etc.
  14. Alx1miK
    +6
    14 January 2013 11: 55
    And in your opinion is China the time of the Opium Wars? Nah, the Chinese are going uphill right now. And in addition to nuclear weapons, in fact, we have nothing to oppose. Not to mention manpower.
    1. 0
      14 January 2013 15: 04
      Last but not least, there is a bacteriological one, the use of which can be made unobvious if you secretly infect medical facilities and groundwater ... Chemical will stop the advance of the front and disorganize the rear of the front ... Geological - heavy rains, landslides, mudflows, earthquakes and tsunamis. .. The choice besides nuclear weapons is a big one ...
      1. Alx1miK
        0
        19 January 2013 10: 56
        WMD delaco is not a decisive factor. Even taking into account the chem-bacter-climatic weapon. WMD is essentially a relic of the Cold War. The army of the future is a small compact army of up to 250.00 men (excluding reserves). For with the development of technology, it will not be profitable and unnecessary to arm 5 million people. And wars will go in confrontations of 50.00-100.000 people. WMD is the past. When active support of the soldier appears, high-precision small arms (more precisely the current American one), when tanks are basically a thing of the past (with the exception of special armored vehicles), then weapons of mass destruction will not be needed. Russia needs breakthrough technologies, truly breakthrough ones. Otherwise, in the long run, we will be armed with useless weapons. It is high time now to chase "red-headed electricity eaters" like Chubais, who don’t do nichrome.
    2. 101
      101
      0
      14 January 2013 15: 28
      Yao in the near future is enough for security even From Korea There are no fools to risk your skin And the aircraft carriers are an attacking element and will appear when capital wants someone else’s pie so it always has been Sales markets move armies in the world of capital
  15. 0
    14 January 2013 11: 57
    The article is rather suggestive, but not complete.

    "The Liaoning commander, Captain Li Xiaoyan, graduated from the Kuznetsov Naval Academy just a few years ago, and the Chinese officer's thesis was devoted to the tactics of aircraft carrier strike groups."

    So, I should know what AUG is :) But I don’t understand, what for China AUG? From what ships do they think to form it is the second question :). But as far as I understand, the AUG is intended for operations in more or less remote theaters of operations, in accordance with the diplomacy of "big sticks" :). The range of coastal aviation is clearly enough against Japan and Taiwan. Only the Persian Gulf and Australia remain (in accordance with their own films about the capture of it, the poor, by the Chinese).
    But there is no need to meddle in the Persian Gulf, there a lot of Americans are hanging around for some reason, while their export from these countries has greatly decreased, and with the projected export from the USA of natural gas (shale and coal) all kinds of Persia will not need them at all. Maybe this is why China wants to protect its Persian communications? But you can’t do with one aircraft carrier there.
    Power capture of Indonesia and Australia, like the Japanese in BB2? But for those, the army is so-so, the Chinese will throw swords :), and even without marketing to China, they themselves will be bent.
    Against the pirates? - enough heaps of boats :)
    Therefore, pliz express your thoughts, why does China need an aircraft carrier?
    1. 0
      14 January 2013 13: 10
      Quote: Egen
      Therefore, pliz express your thoughts, why does China need an aircraft carrier?

      An aircraft carrier, first of all, is a TOOL of political pressure (for example, as a nuclear weapon). China considers itself a great power, and now acquires attributes.
      1. 0
        14 January 2013 13: 37
        Quote: GSH-18
        TOOL OF POLITICAL PRESSURE

        it is clear, but to whom? While this is only IMHO a toy from them ...
    2. 0
      14 January 2013 17: 18
      Everything is very simple - a full-fledged carrier fleet will be created in China. Liaoning is only the first swallow.
      The goal is also clear - the struggle with the United States for control of the sea, and therefore over the world.
  16. Atlon
    +2
    14 January 2013 12: 06
    China is highly vulnerable against nuclear weapons. With such a population density ...
    1. 0
      14 January 2013 12: 22
      Quote: Atlon
      China is highly vulnerable against nuclear weapons. With such a population density ...

      and for terrorists and sabotage! :))))))))
      one thing is bad, disguising yourself as the Chinese is not very simple :)))))
      1. Atlon
        0
        14 January 2013 13: 20
        we have the Yakuts ...;)
  17. djon3volta
    -2
    14 January 2013 12: 06
    here is liberal nonsense, admire wassat
    Russia-China War, 2012. A likely scenario for the development of good neighborly relations with China.
    "At the end of February 2012, China will begin large-scale hostilities to occupy Siberia, the Far East and Transbaikalia. The main direction of the strike will be Central and Western Siberia, and the secondary ones, in terms of the number of strike forces, are Primorye, the Far East and Transbaikalia.

    In the first 24 hours of hostilities, all regions of Transbaikalia, the Far East and Primorye will be under the occupation of China. For a longer time, battles will continue in Central and Western Siberia, but by the end-mid-April, Chinese troops will enter the Urals line. Airborne operations of the beginning of the war will be occupied by Yakutsk and the BAM, Magadan, Irkutsk and Krasnoyarsk highways will be cut. Upon completion of access to the Urals and the capture of oil and gas fields, China is practically blocking NATO’s actions to support Russia.
    In late April, airborne operations will be captured Kamchatka and Chukotka. The pace of offensive operations will be quite high from 200 to 500 km per day, which is explained by the lack of Russian troops in the main attack areas of the Chinese army who are ready to provide any serious opposition. Since, unlike the tactics of previous wars, China will not conduct a concentration of troops near the Russian border. Having received combat missions and movement schedules, the troops will march with the onset of darkness from the places of their constant cantonment by accelerated march straight to the place of the combat mission. Units and units that are bogged down in battle with the Russian troops will independently carry out their task. The main forces will march to the places of their combat missions. Thus, there will be no general delay in the offensive. The pace of development of the operation will be planned. The use of nuclear weapons, both strategic and tactical, will become impossible
    Actions of the Chinese Special Forces
    On the territory of Russia there are already more than a thousand reconnaissance and sabotage groups of special forces of China, which are conducting reconnaissance of their designated targets for destruction. With the outbreak of war, these groups will destroy strategic missile launchers, long-range, tactical, military transport aircraft. Launchers of anti-aircraft and operational-tactical systems, ammunition depots. Insecure command posts. Immediately after the occupation of the territory, China will exchange rubles for the yuan at a reduced rate for the local population, import food and goods of its own production two to three times cheaper than the Russians are now forced to buy. Housing construction and production deployment in the occupied territories will be launched in a short time. From the moment of occupation by China, the indigenous Russian population will not only raise its standard of living by two to three times, but will also get a stable job, due to the rapid development of the territories.
    For a successful war that excludes any resistance from the local population, China will conduct massive propaganda such as:
    1. 0
      14 January 2013 12: 30
      we will not give the enemy Irkutsk and Krasnoyarsk! :))) Why don't they write anything about Novosib, what, a completely unimportant city? : ((
      Well, maybe not nonsense at all, but close :)
      Quote: djon3volta
      The pace of offensive operations will be quite high from 200 to 500 km per day

      - and where to go? :) We have here from the Urals to the Far East there is only one highway that connects all cities (M53) and parallel to it railway, and everything except where along them there is nowhere to move :)) Well, you can really through Urumqi - Kazakhstan in Altai - Nsk - Ural, but this is already a new introductory :) Anyway, from Irkutsk to Omsk you can’t pass anyway except M53

      Quote: djon3volta
      In Russia there are already more than a thousand reconnaissance and sabotage groups

      Wow, the Chinese in the greenhouses from Abakan to Omsk invisibly gave all the sea already lives :(
    2. +4
      14 January 2013 12: 51
      Quote: djon3volta
      With the outbreak of war, these groups will destroy strategic missile launchers,


      We have rockets that are based on clothing markets? In general, this scenario with a beard has been roaming the Internet for a good ten years, here’s a link to the script for 2009, word for word

      http://www.hip-hop.ru/forum/voina-rossiya-kitai-2009-god-222758/
    3. +2
      14 January 2013 13: 04
      + (plus)

      Napoleon and Hitler also thought! And there it is, look how it turned out. And nothing is living.
      The rest, whatever their superiority would be, will follow the same scenario as those two people in 1812 and 1941gg ..
      1. 0
        14 January 2013 13: 49
        Quote: LaGlobal
        Napoleon and Hitler also thought! And there it is, look how it turned out. And nothing is living.
        The rest, whatever their superiority would be, will follow the same scenario as those two people in 1812 and 1941gg ..

        Before these two people, Russia had a natural advantage — a large population and a large territory. In the case of China, this does not fail.
        1. Atlon
          0
          14 January 2013 14: 37
          Quote: GSH-18
          Before these two people, Russia had a natural advantage — a large population and a large territory. In the case of China, this does not fail.


          In the next branch just about this ... Narochnitskaya, about the distortion of history ... And I will answer with a quote from my favorite movie: "Whoever has the truth is stronger!" ("Brother 2")
        2. 101
          101
          0
          15 January 2013 23: 59
          But Yao will do it And there will be no idiots who want to test it until there is reliable protection against it Even Skorea spits on everyone with the opportunity to threaten a nuclear club
    4. Atlon
      0
      14 January 2013 13: 23
      Quote: djon3volta
      The use of nuclear weapons, both strategic and tactical, will become impossible

      Indeed? And what will hinder? wink From Plisetsk, a couple of rackets to Beijing, it’s very effective! Moreover, without waiting for April. So, I see no obstacles ...
    5. -1
      14 January 2013 15: 00
      THAT is nonsense !!!!
  18. +1
    14 January 2013 12: 08
    As delirium, the PRC aircraft carriers may be needed in the fight for the Arctic, and they also started riveting icebreakers.
    1. 0
      14 January 2013 12: 40
      Quote: bashkort
      may be needed in the fight for the Arctic

      - Nuuu, Nah, this is absolutely remoteness from the bases and the area of ​​operation of our coastal aviation, it’s stupid to go in there, although the way is attractive. But China will not send saboteurs to our Arctic airfields, they, the Chinese, still do not look like the Chukchi :))
    2. -1
      14 January 2013 14: 46
      Quote: bashkort
      icebreakers, too, they began to rivet.



      That's the whole point! "RIVET"
  19. djon3volta
    +1
    14 January 2013 12: 08
    - "We will help our Russian brothers to free themselves from the thieves of officials and the robbers of the oligarchs!"

    - "We give Siberia to the Siberians", etc.

    And they really shoot the bribe takers and embezzlers of the most famous both to the population and to Chinese intelligence. Which will eloquently testify to their intentions. Those of the heads of administrations who do not have time to escape will instantly go to cooperate with the invaders, by virtue of their psychology. And two weeks after the arrival of Chinese troops in the occupied territories, a new order will reign. Chinese!
    Reasons for the Russo-Chinese War
    The causes of war on the surface. The need to expand living space, obtaining oil and gas fields. Other raw materials. Russia's weakness is both economic and political. It is also necessary to take into account the peculiarities of eastern psychology, which requires rulers not to forgive even many years of resentment and defeat. And the actions of the USSR on September 12, 1969, and then 1982, put China in the position of a naughty boy. And this is never forgotten in the East!
    Signs of preparing for war
    In the areas bordering with Russia, the construction of column tracks and a road for military transport, in the form of motorways of 6-8 lanes, has been completed. Such a capacity of highways is not needed for anything other than the rapid advance of troops to the front. Termination of major investments in Russia. The study by the Chinese en masse of the Russian language (not English or Indian group). Discrediting the political leadership of Russia in the eyes of ordinary Chinese. Continuous improvement of the combat training of the PLARK, in the absence of a clear enemy. "
    1. +2
      14 January 2013 12: 37
      Quote: djon3volta
      The need to expand living space

      - Yes, they are expanding upwards :) What should they do in Siir, with our frosts, in December -40 kept? They won’t even have central heating in Beijing, everything is in condition, and the walls are half-brick, economically, we will immediately go bankrupt :)
      Quote: djon3volta
      obtaining oil and gas fields

      - why do they need them? What will they do with them? Pipes mostly go from Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug to the West, and the fact that the East is still a drop. To develop new deposits in the Krasnoyarsk Territory, Irkutsk Oblast, Yakutia - heaps of money are needed, and most importantly, both for drilling and for the construction of pipelines - and these are years, things are not so fast, even for the Chinese :) And if they cut the west from the oil and gas pipe, those will be offended by them, and for a long time they won’t be able to tune in, just like the Japanese in BB2 :)
      Quote: djon3volta
      features of eastern psychology

      - oh well, modern Chinese youth are almost like American youth, no one remembers history :)
      1. 101
        101
        0
        16 January 2013 00: 03
        A little expensive even for China Cheaper to buy Much cheaper
    2. +1
      14 January 2013 15: 42
      IT IS NECESSARY TO BE TREATED UNTIL LATE.
  20. andsavichev2012
    -5
    14 January 2013 12: 09
    Question to the author of the article: why are Russian aircraft carriers ??? Scare penguins ???
  21. "Delete"
    +1
    14 January 2013 12: 18
    I think there is something to answer.

    В
    Last year, the volume of completed military orders grew 3,4 times to 92,1 billion rubles. It was built 27 warships with a total displacement of 40,1 thousand tons against 25 in 2011. Two frigates were sent for export to India, their value amounted to 27 billion. The rest of the built warships are state defense orders.

    In general, last year the volume of completed military and civilian orders grew by 64 percent, the number of ships and ships built increased by 20, and the tonnage - by 20,3 percent.
    1. Windbreak
      +1
      14 January 2013 13: 05
      Quote: Sil
      Two frigates were sent for export to India, their value amounted to 27 billion. The rest of the built warships
      And the submarine 636.1 Varshavyanka built for Vietnam, was launched on August 28, 2012
    2. +2
      14 January 2013 13: 23
      Quote: Sil
      In general, last year the volume of completed military and civilian orders grew by 64 percent, the number of ships and ships built increased by 20, and the tonnage - by 20,3 percent.

      In addition to the Mistral Docks and Submarine Cruisers, the rest is a boat fleet inherited from Brezhnev and Khrushchev! That’s why the Amer’s admirals try not to die of laughter at their sight for a year. Large, powerful ships can be counted on the fingers .. What kind of military operations, if these boats are drowned in a Pacific storm, and shells are not needed. Conclusion: at present, Russia has a fleet designed only to protect its own coastline. When the real tasks of a normal fleet are much wider.
    3. MG42
      +1
      14 January 2013 18: 45
      In this figure, the 1st is Admiral Gorshkov = project 22350 ??, this is for the Indians it is being modernized and this is the heavy aircraft carrier TAKR project 1143.5 as well as "Varyag" = "Vikramaditya".
      1. "Delete"
        0
        14 January 2013 22: 06
        You confuse) http://www.paralay.com/22350.html
        1. MG42
          +1
          15 January 2013 02: 51
          Quote: Sil

          You confuse)

          I don’t confuse anything = Admiral Gorshkov This TAVKR! wink проект 1143.4
          http://www.brazd.ru/av/adm_gor.html
          http://aviaros.narod.ru/adm_gor.htm
          http://wp.scn.ru/ru/carriers/wars/1/184-1-0
  22. +6
    14 January 2013 12: 34
    Quote "China will begin large-scale hostilities to occupy Siberia, the Far East and Transbaikalia. The main direction of the strike will be Central and Western Siberia, "
    From Siberia with love!
    1. donchepano
      0
      14 January 2013 12: 59
      Quote: Bort Radist
      From Siberia with love!


      )) Even the clouds show them hell)))
      But still, you can’t clap your ears in any case.
      Urgently arm and arm.
      War is knocking on the door.
      The impudent Sassaks and their Bilderberg masters are sleeping and see Russia defeated and torn to pieces.
      Fuck them and from us to the collar
      1. Bubo
        +2
        14 January 2013 13: 49
        In his native Kemerovo region, the M53 traveled from BUT (54) to KK (24), I know all the nooks and crannies wink
        The Chinese are not White Guards, they can hardly retell their "ice campaign" with our Siberian hospitality to their descendants wink

        With love from "Shcheglovskaya taiga" soldier

        PS: although the enemy cannot be underestimated.
        1. 0
          14 January 2013 16: 16
          Quote: Bubo
          In its native Kemerovo region, M53

          Anton, countryman, where are you from?
          That's it, and we also have a secret weapon here, how I forgot! Valuev Yeti .. well, almost found :) And this is not far from the village near Tashtagol! And then what happens in our outback? :)))
    2. +1
      14 January 2013 13: 25
      Quote: Bort Radist
      From Siberia with love!

      Do you want IT to stop China? laughing
      1. +1
        14 January 2013 13: 54
        Quote: GSH-18
        Do you want IT to stop China? laughing

        This is God's sign for the future of such plans. am
      2. 0
        14 January 2013 14: 46
        While the Chinese gossip, discussing this "figure", Muscovites will do. In 41 году Siberians bailed out Moscow, and here Muscovites come to the rescue. lol
        1. Misantrop
          +1
          14 January 2013 15: 52
          Quote: zanoza
          and then Muscovites will come to the rescue.

          And all as one - purely Chinese in appearance. Deal with the fact that the imperial ambitions of the "Dragon" broke their entire trade laughing
  23. fenix57
    +2
    14 January 2013 12: 45
    Quote: GSH-18
    in the Celestial Empire itself, the topic of five million square kilometers of Chinese land "occupied by foreign states" is systematically discussed

    On maps of (geographic) Primorsky Krai to Vladivostok, in general, Chinese territory [/ i]. soldier
  24. +1
    14 January 2013 12: 52
    The article is interesting but with a sweet touch. negative
  25. +2
    14 January 2013 13: 01
    sadly, I agree with the article
  26. 0
    14 January 2013 13: 01
    Of course, you should not underestimate the probable opponent, but it is also stupid to overestimate (as in the article), or the purpose of this article is to intimidate probable the military power of the Chinese. The position of our military-industrial complex looks completely in black colors, there is no elementary analysis even by the media about the introduction of new types of weapons, the article is, to put it mildly (not to put it), "raw", narrowly focused.
    One of many examples:
    1. +1
      14 January 2013 13: 33
      Quote: NEMO
      article to say the least (not to put it mildly) "raw", narrow focus.

      And what do you think is raw or narrowly targeted?
      At the moment, China has the opportunity to put under a gun 100 million. military personnel in 48 hours. China by all means and without regard to costs, is rapidly upgrading its aircraft. And all this is with us across the border. On which we have one division (in number). belay
      1. 0
        14 January 2013 13: 57
        Quote: GSH-18
        And what do you think is raw or narrowly targeted?


        I softly called this expression in the article "raw":
        Amid the ongoing collapse of the Russian military-industrial complex ....


        And "narrowly focused" - can be called the meaning of the entire article, which tells about the dead end of our military-industrial complex, while praising the Chinese "partners" with might and main. The article was at least a couple of years late.

        Quote: GSH-18
        China has the opportunity to put under a gun 100 million. military personnel in 48 hours.

        This is just unreal

        Quote: GSH-18
        On which we have one division (in number).


        I agree with you very little about the feasibility of deploying to
        whole encyclopedias have already been written in this direction of more troops ...
  27. 0
    14 January 2013 13: 10
    Found the composition of the parts of the Eastern Military District http://warfare.ru/db/linkid/2224/catid/321/lang/rus/
  28. +2
    14 January 2013 13: 11
    Of course, I am not an expert, and I cannot talk about what should be built in the Russian Federation in terms of ships. But in my female opinion, it would be good to return the relationship "Russia-China - friendship forever". All the same, a deterrent factor. And there it will be possible to prepare properly, just in case.
    1. +1
      14 January 2013 13: 26
      Quote: Egoza
      "Russia-China - friendship forever"


      is it probably something like this: "The Russian elephant is the best friend of the Chinese elephant"? wink

      But seriously, we with China already maintain good ("partnership") relations despite many disagreements
    2. Atlon
      0
      14 January 2013 13: 31
      Quote: Egoza
      But in my female opinion it would be good to return the Russia-China relationship - friendship forever. All the same, a deterrent factor. And there it will be possible to prepare properly, just in case.

      We were also "friends" with the Germans. Aces of the Luftwaffe, studied at the Lipetsk Aviation School ... If there is anything, only an unparalleled feat of the people, we will defeat the foe (however, as usual). And the ears are known where they grow from ... Naglo-Saxons will not calm down. After all, any "trip to the east" is the work of their intrigues. We do not have to wait for an attack from Europe, they were taught too well in their time (starting with the Swedes), so now, Jewish Masons are looking at China with hope.
    3. 0
      14 January 2013 13: 35
      Quote: Egoza
      And there it will be possible to prepare as it should just in case.

      This case has already arrived.
    4. 0
      14 January 2013 13: 43
      in! It has long been known that women need to listen! :))) Only for some reason men ask questions like "why" and "how", and everything goes quietly :)))
      1. +1
        14 January 2013 14: 30
        Quote: Egen
        It has long been known that women need to listen!

        Women need not listen, but protect! love
        1. Atlon
          +2
          14 January 2013 14: 39
          You need to love them ... just that ...;)
          1. 0
            14 January 2013 14: 46
            Quote: Atlon
            You need to love them ... just that ...


            Love is also different, Serdyuk love for women
            where she led ... wink
            1. Atlon
              +1
              14 January 2013 15: 03
              Quote: NEMO
              Serdyuk love for women won’t lead where ...

              Sir! Do not dare to confuse LOVE and lust ... And then I will demand satisfaction!
          2. -1
            14 January 2013 16: 17
            ... and Chinese too? :)))
    5. Misantrop
      0
      14 January 2013 15: 55
      Quote: Egoza
      it would be good to return the "Russia-China - friendship forever" relationship.
      To do this, you need something nonsense - to return Stalin. They were just friends with him. laughing
    6. MG42
      +2
      14 January 2013 21: 40
      Quote: Egoza
      it would be good to return the "Russia-China - friendship forever" relationship.

      It is enough to look at the history of relations between the USSR and the PRC = after Khrushchev came to power, Mao Zedong did not feel much friendship, on the contrary, there were cross-border conflicts of 1969 already under Brezhnev.
      Armed border conflicts between the USSR and China near Damansky Island (Primorye), the Tasty River, and Lake Zhalanashkol (Kazakhstan).
  29. igor66
    0
    14 January 2013 13: 33
    "The article is too (?) Alarmist ... We have a sword ..." Gentlemen, somehow I quickly forgot 41 years. Then, too, there were a lot of such talkers. Then they rolled to Moscow. Now there will be nowhere to go. Oh, and don't forget that China is a nuclear and space power. Which is developing very rapidly. And unlike our separately taken prototypes, periodically falling missiles, explosions of warehouses and other things (according to the rules of the site, I pick it up). And why should China conduct military operations in the same Far East? They are wonderfully engaged in the relocation of our pensioners to their territory, with the settlement of their apartments with their fellow citizens. I have been working in the aviation industry for many years, starting with the Tashkent aviation industry, where the IL-76 was made. The state of the aviation industry is catastrophic. What are you going to face the Chinese invasion. Stupid Medvedev bravado, Putin's tales or Shoiguv's body cleaners from the Ministry of Emergencies?
  30. 0
    14 January 2013 13: 38
    There on the title photo with hieroglyphs something is written like
    "We fucked everyone up"
  31. +3
    14 January 2013 13: 42
    Fuck you! First, we will destroy the fleet, then with honor and monuments we honor the one who destroyed it, after the change of power - now we grab hold of our heads again! First, to shoot those who destroyed the Soviet fleet as traitors to the motherland!
  32. +1
    14 January 2013 14: 01
    To build large ships is more for a show-off, like I can. We more need ships of protection and penetration prevention, as well as secretive (SP). The entire experience of the operations of the Russian fleet shows this. Our territory is too vast and it seems that it’s not necessary anymore, so we are strengthening the ground forces, even though I like the fleet.
  33. shtirlits
    0
    14 January 2013 14: 17
    Varangian for 20 lyamov-Krasava !!! Partially +++ article (multi-panic in the author’s words). On the other hand, we would like to squeeze a piece of land from us, we would have squeezed it out long ago, after all, for 20 years in the city ... we swam outside. We definitely need to arm ourselves and as soon as possible !!!
    1. 0
      14 January 2013 16: 18
      Quote: shtirlits
      Varangian for 20 Lyamov-Krasava

      that's interesting, but how many billions overs went? :))
  34. +4
    14 January 2013 14: 20
    To coexist on equal terms with such a powerful neighbor, Russia alone is not enough nuclear weapons

    believe me, it’s quite enough:

    number of warheads:



    1. Grey74
      +1
      14 January 2013 16: 09
      we can’t get there anymore)) if only to burn out and then there’s nowhere to go))
  35. Nechai
    -4
    14 January 2013 14: 22
    Posted by Roman Akolzin: "Katz, offers to surrender !!!"
  36. pavlo007
    +2
    14 January 2013 14: 53
    How many do not look at the comments ura-idiots patriots on this site can not come to my senses. This public does not need anything like the film "If tomorrow is war" and nothing else but Putin, personally launching from an airplane sterkhov cruise missile is not a criterion for the country's defense. It’s not even sad, it’s already a clinic when people refuse to realize that the king is naked.
    And our defense complex really came to an end, because the military-industrial complex cannot exist on spells. A powerful army and navy can take place only in the presence of INDUSTRY (in all Putinoid surveys, economic growth is understood only as an increase in the dough from the sale of oil stealing by Putin and the company from the people, and also income from the sale of Chinese contraceptives to the population), SCIENCE and EDUCATION. All this is PURPOSED to be destroyed by Putin and the company (which is only worth the face of the new Minister of Education and the adopted law on education, destroying education itself as a concept).

    The article is a fat plus, it is immediately clear that a person knows the problem from the inside. The sad thing is that our power is already doomed, alas. Putin managed to do something that did not work out for the main traitor of all times and peoples of the humpback - to destroy the very base on which it would be possible to recreate a great power, It is Putin, and not the humpback, who will be cursed by the few Russians who retain their self-esteem in a couple of dozen years, that's just curse will already be in dwarf puppet states, the size of the Leningrad region.
    It’s very sad, but soon we’ll lose our country a second time, but it doesn’t matter for the patrolled hooray patriots - they will be told on TV that it’s better, they will calm down and go on living happily and increase sales.
    1. 0
      14 January 2013 16: 20
      Quote: pavlo007
      A powerful army, fleet can take place only in the presence of INDUSTRY

      nuuu, this is clear to any child in games like Heroes of Might and Magic :)), and you are mostly right, but let's still look optimistically 6))))
      1. pavlo007
        +1
        14 January 2013 17: 07
        I would be glad to look optimistic, but I see something different, for example, when there are two turners at the plant - one 60 and the other 65. And you can say as much as you like: "Raise, strengthen, innovate, iPhone, consulting and de-building." The root of the tragedy lies in this and in the fact that it was possible to raise a whole generation of ruminants ready to hand out sweets and chips in Lenta, and then gorge themselves on beer or smoke marijuana, without even knowing the name of the state in which they live.
    2. Volkhov
      0
      14 January 2013 16: 34
      Now the Russian Federation with China and America is in the same system and everything is calm, but if Russia goes to originality, it will be, as a civilian, to pacify the Chinese troops, but not the mercenaries of Yakir and Trotsky, but the regular army. To do this, they laid bare the border. Our main owners of the Rothschilds live in China, and the Russian Federation is a raw material province.
  37. +1
    14 January 2013 14: 57
    Russia does not need to fight another 100 years, we have huge empty territories beyond the Urals that need to be settled and developed. And because of this, the army of the Russian Federation faces more defensive tasks. An aircraft carrier is an attack weapon; therefore, the construction of aircraft carriers is not a priority for our defense industry. The defense of Russia always fell on the shoulders of the land army, it was and will be so, the creation of a powerful land army is the first priority for the near future. An aircraft carrier can probably help capture some coastal city, but never capture Moscow or Novosibirsk.
    1. Misantrop
      0
      14 January 2013 16: 02
      Quote: plebs
      An aircraft carrier is an attack weapon, so the construction of aircraft carriers ...

      ... essential. For to the MAIN provocateurs on the planet of the last couple of centuries, NO way you can get. Yes, the PKK CH and Strategic Rocket Forces can strike so that there will be little. But for efficiency, you can’t do without stripping, but here you can’t do without an air wing
      1. +1
        14 January 2013 16: 55
        For the United States (I think you had this country in mind), we have a Strategic Missile Forces, and it’s too expensive to land an army thousands of kilometers away; when creating a nuclear shield, we paid parity with America and paid to re-create an aircraft carrier fleet, crap and whim!
  38. camcos
    0
    14 January 2013 15: 12
    Yes, there are problems with the industry - repair planes paint along with debris without degreasing or cleaning the plasticine on top of the board - there are almost no craftsmen - a very deplorable situation

    what kind of aircraft carriers are there
  39. 0
    14 January 2013 15: 12
    the author that the Chinese will be if they trample on Russia?
    and winter will come and everyone will understand everything.
    article minus!
    1. camcos
      +1
      14 January 2013 15: 15
      they are currently not feeling bad in Magadan and Khabarovsk
  40. Nechai
    0
    14 January 2013 15: 30
    Quote: pavlo007
    The sad thing is that our power is already doomed, alas

    Really stoll? In addition to nuclear weapons, there are many more interesting things. With what there is an opportunity to familiarize the Han people who now live in our cities, and that they will risk marching in columns along our endless posts. If the PLA is still getting some food, they will provide it for the first time, then they will drink local water. And it is not a fact that the discilitators will protect them. And you can't go to the OZK forever. And you cannot relieve the need for it ... So you will get Shenyang and Peking "machine gunners" ...
  41. Nechai
    +2
    14 January 2013 15: 58
    ps. If the vertical of power does not ensure the safety of society, then the matter of saving the drowning is the work of the drowning! Establish horizontal ties. Groups, groups, squad, etc. Normal network structure. Nothing else remains! It’s not worth hoping for mercy of the male part of Russia!
    1. Volkhov
      +2
      14 January 2013 16: 27
      Soon - military adventures will lead to a management crisis ...
      Only the leadership understands this and has already created a pocket opposition.
    2. pavlo007
      +2
      14 January 2013 17: 12
      I completely agree, it’s just scary to imagine the level of tragedy through which our people will have to go, and he got a hedgehog in the 20th century. And all this because Putin and the company cannot agree to steal at least half. Imagine what kind of paradise would come in the country if Volodya gathered his gang and said - all men, from tomorrow half of what was stolen - the budget! I am sure that the next day, not only special forces, but also conscripts would go in robotic armored suits with exoskeletons, shoot from laser guns and wind nanosocks with silver.
      Z.Y. Yes, and for gold toilets in orphanages, even money would be enough.

      ZZY Yes, I anticipate putinoids - "Volodya did not know, he is good, and his friend is good and kind, these are all their women twist bitches men."
  42. 0
    14 January 2013 16: 05
    Just thinking out loud. Such a state as China would not have been on the world map without the support of the USSR. This is the first 20 days ago I came from the Amur Region. The myth of the yellow threat is just a myth. This is the second. It was driving along the BAM. It's just a train line laid in impenetrable taiga. Long-distance trains for locals are just an electric train. There is a migration of the Trans-Baikal population to the Amur region. The sea is open. Mines are open, people from the south of the region are working in the north on the road. Roads, helicopters, dormitories, dining rooms are all there or are being built .Something like this
  43. figvamforever
    0
    14 January 2013 16: 22
    Quote: satelite
    The author of the article offers Russia to get involved in a military race with China. It seems to me an impermissible luxury. It is necessary to begin with that ordinary people in the country receive not 12000 rubles, but 40000 rubles, then it will be possible to risk such projects and this is a feast during the plague.


    Very correct remark !!!
    We need to decide what we want. whether to be a great military empire with 140 million in general, not the richest population. Abandoned healthcare and education and the lack of prospects for buying a home.
    Or we want to be an ordinary camp where people simply live without imperial ambitions. Then you need to unite with like yourself. Unfortunately no one. Only India and Brazil. But they are geographically far away. Then it remains for survival - to join NATO ---although I don’t feel like it.
    There is a third way. Living maneuvering between the USA and China is about 15-25 years old. To increase the population to at least 350-400 million people. And then having adjusted life, already to create a combat-ready fleet. But this is not with this re-resident and his ministers bribes
    1. Misantrop
      +1
      14 January 2013 20: 59
      Quote from figvamforever
      Very correct remark !!!
      We need to decide what we want. whether to be a great military empire with 140 million in general, not the richest population. Abandoned healthcare and education and the lack of prospects for buying a home.

      For more than half a century, they have been an "evil empire". But at the same time, for some reason without offensive weapons... For a strategic triad without means of capturing and holding territory is only suitable for retaliating, and not at all for further expansion. But this did not bother anyone around, an empire of evil by definition. All this time we were hanged noodles so that we "change our minds and join." With the coming to power of Gorbachev, they "changed their minds" (they immediately sent us the fuck when they joined us). Now, having lost almost a quarter of the territory and a third of the population, living in much worse conditions (the absolute majority of the population), are we going to "think again"? Until when is the reduction of population and territory planned to "change their minds"?
      Quote from figvamforever
      Or do we want to be an ordinary camp where people just live without imperial ambitions

      At least once in the last thousand years, "good neighbors" have given such an opportunity? If not a direct military invasion, then the sending of provocateurs with missionaries did not stop even for a day. Or is there serious reason to believe that from now on and on everything will become completely different? They will suddenly forgive us, love us and leave us alone? laughing
  44. +1
    14 January 2013 16: 30
    there is such a legend that Mao proposed to Stalin, in order to round off the territory of China, to attach “external” Mongolia to “internal”. To this suggestion, the Soviet leader allegedly replied: “Let’s, but only the other way around.”
  45. +3
    14 January 2013 16: 59
    The essence of the problem is that Chinese strategists consider capitalist Russia a doomed country, from their point of view, it is stealing the last Soviet resources, and then falling apart.
    And after that, the PRC "collects bribes", that is, it takes the Far East for itself (or part of it, it all depends on how they negotiate with the United States)
    That is why the Communists of China do not support Communists of Russia (they secretly turned to them for help)
    They really like the policies of the Yeltsin-Putin governments. Therefore, at the moment, despite the military weakness of the Russian Federation, the PRC does not face any war.
    On the contrary, consistently penetrating the Far East, they talk about "mutual understanding and friendship"
    From their point of view, it’s stupid to fight for what you get.
    From a military point of view, the only resource Russia has against China is nuclear weapons.
    1. pavlo007
      0
      14 January 2013 17: 16
      An interesting feature - 90% of sane people on this site wear gray epaulets.
    2. Misantrop
      +2
      14 January 2013 20: 35
      Quote: Odyssey
      That is why the Chinese Communists do not support the Communists of Russia
      That is why? And not because they consider KP Zyuganov anyone, but not communists?
      1. 0
        14 January 2013 22: 06
        Of course, people in the PRC are adequate, and they know that Zyuganov is just a disguised clown and that a "communist" from him is the same as from Zhirinovsky "liberal-democrat".
        But China does not support any com / social. parties of Russia, and not one of their activists.
        Which, from the point of view of the state interests of the PRC, is quite reasonable. Socialist Russia can revive industry, and therefore the army.
        And this is not necessary for China.
  46. wax
    0
    14 January 2013 17: 16
    The truth is concrete. In our current economic and technological situation, we don’t have to raise all the tasks, we’ve too much collapsed, we broke off cooperation with the former Soviet republics, etc. Therefore, in the oceans in the first place the task of self-preservation, i.e. creation of a strategic (nuclear, missile) submarine fleet sufficient to punish any aggressor and group of aggressors. Demonstration and protection of influence in the world - aircraft carrier surface fleet, in second place, with the start of development without delay. At the same time, modern surface ships should be enough to confidently protect the sea borders. What is being done, in my opinion, is quite reasonable.
  47. +2
    14 January 2013 18: 22
    In 1998, the Chinese company "Chong Lot Travel Agency Ltd" for only $ 20 million bought "Varyag" from Ukraine, supposedly "on needles."
    This event entered the history of shipbuilding as a kind of Guinness record, since it is simply impossible to acquire an aircraft carrier built on 70% for such a ridiculous amount. By the way, the modernization of Gorshkov sold to India alone cost 2,3 a billion dollars. And the cost of one such floating base in the United States exceeds 10 billion dollars.

    That was a rollback !!! Record! And the prosecutor's office and other supervisory bodies of Ukraine have set a record for "spasm", "deafness" and stupidity.
    1. Misantrop
      +2
      14 January 2013 20: 31
      Quote: Andrey from Tver
      This was a rollback !!!

      There was not a pullback, but a whole necklace of kickbacks. If we recall that story, then initially the aircraft carrier wanted to be bought by the Russian Federation in a state "as is" and for quite sane adequate money. But suddenly an American company appeared out of nowhere, ready to buy this ship for scrap at the price of a finished aircraft carrier (American). But for this it was required to partially disassemble it back. Naturally, buyers from the Russian Federation were sent nafig and a joyous showdown began in anticipation of a giant freebie. BUT ... as soon as the ship was dismantled to the stage at which it ceased to be of interest to the Russian Federation, this company ... disappeared without a trace, just as it had appeared before. The ship was hanging around for a long time, no one was interested, until China bought it for a penny (compared to the real price). Allegedly as a floating entertainment center. Moreover, with the departure of the ship in Nikolaev, Chinese recruiters became more frequent, who began to lure shipbuilders on very good conditions. And quite a few were lured. The ship stayed for several years as a floating casino, and then this booth was curtailed. Then everyone knows ... winked
  48. 0
    14 January 2013 18: 24
    There is such a joke:
    "God save me from such friends. And somehow I myself will get rid of the enemies."
    There is another joke:
    "With friends like that, you don't need enemies."
    And there is China.
  49. WW3
    WW3
    +2
    14 January 2013 20: 15
    Not to build aircraft carriers because of their high cost is short-sightedness, and China has already been added to the list of countries that have an aircraft carrier, soon China will create its own AUG, amers already have a dozen of them ...
    AUG can conduct combat operations without replenishing supplies up to 14 days, strike ships at sea to a depth of 925 km, and coastal targets about 1600 km. The ability of AUGs to move 1100-1300 km per day in a day provides relative stealth, and consequently, suddenness of action, allowing you to quickly arrive in the designated area.
    “Two aircraft carriers are being built at the Jiangnan Shipyard in Shanghai,” Reuters told a Chinese spokesman associated with the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party.

    The Chinese tightly controlled state press has not previously announced plans for aircraft carriers. However, this turn of events has been expected since the 1990s, when U.S. intelligence agencies spotted Chinese aircraft operating off the aircraft-style takeoffs and landings at the mainland airfield.

    Mr. Gen said that China is developing aircraft carriers because of its long coastlines and large territorial waters.

    Regarding future domestic aircraft carriers, Mr. Gen said: “Both the revaluation and underestimation of future Chinese aircraft carriers is wrong.”

    The construction and use of aircraft carriers is “the sacred responsibility of the Chinese armed forces,” said Gen, noting the difficulty of working with large ships that launch and receive aircraft.

    “An aircraft carrier is an armament platform; It can be used for both defensive and offensive operations. It can also be used to maintain global peace and search and rescue operations, ”he said.
  50. denn
    +1
    14 January 2013 20: 28
    1. A large beast on a world map - by definition, should be the center of increased attention. Considering that this beast is also a neighbor, attention increases many times.
    2. Partnerships need to be built with China. As an example: http://oko-planet.su/politik/newsday/159459-kitay-i-rossiya-dogovorilis-o-vzaimn
    oy-support.html
    3. With Germany, before the Second World War, there were also mutually beneficial relations, as well as a non-aggression pact. And not immediately Hitler went to the USSR. Before that, he came to Britain and the Middle East. The turn to the USSR was unexpected. As far as I remember, it was something like this.
    4. There is no guarantee that an orange octopus cannot put its tentacles into a reliable Chinese system of government. It will be a sad outcome.
    5. Do not forget about Britain (but generally the Anglo-Saxons). After all, no one thinks that this gang will sit quietly and wait for its collapse? Surely they are working towards China and it is not yet known what results have already been achieved.

    That's what I think.
  51. -1
    14 January 2013 21: 28
    Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, when will the traitors who ruined the country and those who continue to ruin it be punished?! Or are we waiting for great upheavals again??
    1. pavlo007
      -1
      14 January 2013 21: 36
      That is, you are suggesting that Vladimir Vladimirovich shoot himself or imprison himself for life at his dacha in SNT "Ozero"?