"Uzi": about the shortcomings of the first Israeli submachine gun

In the first years of its existence (after 1948), the State of Israel experienced difficulties in equipping the army with modern, technologically advanced, and most importantly, affordable small arms. weapons.

There were many different submachine guns in service, including the Soviet PPSh, the American Thompson and the British Sterling. However, all of them were imported from abroad, and it was difficult for Israel to establish their production on its territory.

As a result, in 1949-1950, the Israeli government decided to develop this version of the submachine gun and launch its serial production within the country.

The competition was won by the project of an IDF officer named Uziel Gal, and the submachine gun adopted by the Israeli Defense Forces in 1954 was named in his honor - “Uzi”.

Today, the Uzi has become one of the most popular types of weapons in the world. However, immediately after being adopted by the Israeli army, the military identified a number of shortcomings inherent in this software.

Firstly, accuracy when firing in bursts. At a distance of 100 meters, dispersion reached 1,5-2 meters, which made this firing mode pointless even at short distances of infantry fire.

Secondly, due to the use of the 9x19 Parabellum cartridge, the Uzi was much inferior in terms of flatness and accuracy to the same Soviet PPSh, which used the 7,62x25 TT cartridge.

Thirdly, the mass of the new submachine gun reached 3,65 kg. For example, for the same American M1 it was one and a half times less (2,3 kg).

Finally, fourthly, the Micro-Uzi and Mini-Uzi did not have a fire rate retarder in their design. As a result, the latter increased from 500-600 rounds per minute, normal for PP, to 1000-1250. The 20-round magazine became empty within a second. Because of this, the Uzi was nicknamed the “one-shot” submachine gun.

Comments

[Rumata]

"Uzi" was much inferior to the same Soviet PPSh

Strange comparison. It seems like ultrasound for police, security, special forces, tank crews.
I would compare not with the PPSh, but with my service PM, from which I never hit a target at the shooting range.))))

[Maxim G]

The police used quite large submachine guns.
MAT-49/54 - police model.

[pettabyte]

Of all the current listed, the tanker needs compactness.

[bone1]

Well, at least someone is honest, otherwise there are only snipers around and from PMs about a hundred meters they hit the bull’s eye

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Strange comparison. It seems like ultrasound for police, security, special forces, tank crews.
I would compare not with the PPSh, but with my service PM, from which I never hit a target at the shooting range.))))

A normal PM pistol, it just needs practice. Well, even hands.

[Maxim G]

A pistol is still better with a longer barrel; the compactness of the PM is too uncompact.

[Oleg Zorin]

Of course, there are better pistols, but you are right - a very average shooter can score 25-26 points from three rounds at 25 meters

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Rumata

and with my service pistol, from which I never hit a target at the shooting range.))))

A.S. Pushkin has stories by the late Ivan Petrovich Belkin, based on which the film “Shot” was made:

- How did he shoot? - the count asked me. - Yes, this is how it is, your Excellency: it happened that he saw a fly land on the wall: are you laughing, Countess? By God, really. Sometimes he would see a fly and shout: Kuzka, gun! Kuzka brings him a loaded pistol. He slams and presses the fly into the wall! - It is amazing! - said the count; - what was his name? - Silvio, your Excellency.

92 out of 100 after shooting... I remember it was... In the training missile brigade...
But I liked APS more...

[mark1]

Quote: Rumata

with my service pistol, from which I never hit a target at the shooting range.))))

Well, here the questions are more for the shooter, the experience is very limited, but in training I knocked out 26/28 out of 30 consistently.

[Andrey A]

PM weighs a little more than 800 g and can hardly be compared with ultrasound, whose weight is over 3.2 kg. And the very idea of ​​a large-caliber submachine gun is a bad idea. Not only the weight of the cartridge and magazine increases, but also the weight of the barrel, squared (at least). It is significant that the “Schmeiser” is equal in weight to the PPSh, but in terms of combat capabilities it is sharply inferior to it. The sighting range is -100 m for the "Schmeisser" and - 200 m for the PPSh (300-350 m with single fire), 32 rounds for the "Schmeisser" and 71 rounds for the PPSh. And the moral is simple: for overweighting the design, which is inevitable when using a large-caliber cartridge, you have to pay for the deterioration of combat characteristics. And so, the same “Suomi”, with a 9 mm cartridge, weighed over 7 kg, like a good light machine gun, with modest combat capabilities. In general, the Sudaev submachine gun, although it was created before the Uzi, was superior in quality to the Uzi both in range and accuracy with the same weight, and yet everything is simple: the PPS has a light and powerful 7,62x25 mm cartridge TT (like the PPSh), this predetermined its advantage.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

The left pocket of the flight suit is made like this:

And the PM, its outlines are visible, covers the area of ​​the heart.

[Uncle_Misha]

“Schmeiser” is an incorrect rather slang name. MP-40, that’s what this PP was called. And in terms of combat capabilities, it is not inferior to the PPSh. The first PPSh had a rifle-type sighting bar, on the later ones, a reversible rear sight for 100 and 200 meters. All objective information is in the reports of the shooting range, experts spoke very flatteringly about it. And the equipment is a “tambourine.” PPSh is quite a task, especially in the field. PPS is a wartime PP, it’s not worth talking about at all.

[Andrey A]

PPSh weighs 5,3 kg, MP-38\40 - 4.8 kg. The PPSh's magazine holds 71 ​​rounds, the Schmeisser's has 32 rounds. Bullet speed is 500-550 m/s for PPSh and 320-400 m/s. The declared sighting range for the PPSh is 500 m, for the Schmeisser - 100-200 m. True, during the war, the PPSh was equipped with a sight for automatic firing up to 200 m, but the real capabilities of the Schmeisser were more than modest:

However, the short (75-100 meters) effective firing range is a general drawback of weapons chambered for the 9x19 mm Parabellum pistol cartridge; however, the Soviet SMGs that the MP 40 had to face on the Eastern Front were executed under a much more “high-speed” gun. By the standards of this class of ammunition, the Mauser-Tokarev cartridge is 7,62x25 mm, which has obviously better ballistics: the initial bullet speed is 520-550 m/sec from PPSh and 480-500 m/sec from PPS.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_38/40

Moral: with PPSh, you will stop the separation of enemy soldiers with "Schmeissers" at a long distance with two long bursts, forcing you to lie down (150-170 meters). They are unlikely to be able to return fire or it will be ineffective, so you will still have about 45 rounds of ammunition left in the magazine (for 11 short bursts), anyone who starts to move can be shot, and if you run out of ammunition, you will change the magazine (the distance allows this). In a word: fight back. And, if you have a “Schmeiser”, everything is much worse: you get close (75 m), two long bursts, the enemy lies down (40-50 meters), you change the magazine, the enemy rises and throws grenades at you. That's all. It’s good to fight with a “Schmeisser” against soldiers armed with pistols (“Walters”, for example, with a range of 50 m), against a well-armed enemy it is a weak weapon, it’s not for nothing that the Germans initially armed their rear guards with it, but the PPSh is a serious weapon that capable of inflicting heavy losses on the advancing enemy in a matter of minutes, which the Germans noted. And as for the name: “Schmeisser,” it was used in Soviet literature, including specialized literature, which means it is not slang

[Uncle_Misha]

The sight of the Mauser pistol is marked up to 1000 meters, but so what?. According to the report of the shooting range, the MP-40 fired a bunch of PPSh and single shots at 100 and 200 meters. They armed them with junior commanders and those who needed a compact weapon. Scolding or praising PPSh is a thankless and ugly task. This is what our industry could provide. Mass production of PPSh, the formation of companies of machine gunners, a necessary measure. The Red Army did not have a light machine gun similar in characteristics to the German one. In the Wehrmacht, the MG was the standard weapon of the infantry squad and there was simply no need to shoot from the MP at the advancing infantry. I know the PPSh like the back of my hand, the weapon is simple with pros and cons, like any other. I personally like the “dad”, but the cartridges are in literally "eats"

[Andrey A]

Well, actually the MP-40 did not have a function: single-shot shooting. So I would like to make sure that the report exists (link, please). Our DP was no worse than the German MG (the DP was lighter, and changing the barrel of the MG did not give it any advantages, because everything depended on the ammunition, and it was limited everywhere). And cartridges for TT (PPSh), among other things, were also cheap (they weighed more than two times less than cartridges for DP). And the fact that the heavy fire of the defending units of the Red Army at medium distances mowed down the attackers is written by the Germans themselves, but the effective range of the “Schmeisser” was 75-100 m. This is nothing https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_38/40

[Uncle_Misha]

The MN really didn’t have a single-fire function, but due to the low rate of fire it was possible. Perhaps the range specialists loaded the MP magazine with one cartridge at a time. I won’t give a link, I don’t know how, but in Yandex you can type - “Report from the shooting range on MP tests - 40." , During the Second World War, surveys of soldiers were conducted about this or that weapon, so our soldiers wanted the same PP as the Germans... It was also noted that the German MG is superior in combat capabilities to the DP. All the information is on the Internet, you just need to search and having found it, read By the way, the DP has a rifle cartridge and it is incorrect to compare it with the PPSh cartridge.

[stankow]

Andrei, The weight of the weapon grows “cubed” - to the third power of the caliber (and barrel length)

[bone1]

The Uzi is not Israeli, but a copy of the Czech PP - what does it mean - “the first Israeli” - like - were they still there?

[decimalegio]

https://it.topwar.ru/43533-uzi-chelovek-i-avtomat.html

[23ronin]

An ordinary gibberish advertised by Hollywood, the prototype was the Czech PP type 23 and other crafts of Vaclav Holek. Thanks to Hollywood for advertising). And the fact that someone couldn’t hit with the PM, in order to hit, you need to shoot, and not 3 rounds + 3 for the test once a year.

[Mordvin 3]

Thirdly, the mass of the new submachine gun reached 3,65 kg.

The weight of a mini ultrasound is 2,7 kg, the weight of a micro ultrasound is 1,9 kg.

[voyaka uh]

The Uzi has a single-fire mode.
But it is a military one with a wooden stock - really heavy, with sensitive recoil.
It has a heavy "machine gun" bolt.
At 50 m - just right. Further - not very much.

[Kaiten]

Quote: voyaka uh

with sensitive feedback.

Shot more than once with an ultrasound. In my opinion, the return is much less compared to Galil.

[voyaka uh]

Ultrasounds became scarce already in the mid-90s.
There were no cartridges available in Samaria.
Then the Galilis also disappeared.
Everything switched to M-16: or "broom" or carbine (“katsar”).

[Nagaibak]

In order to talk about ultrasound, you need to understand what Israeli soldiers fought with in the War of Independence. The Israeli leadership understood that the next war was inevitable and was preparing for a future war. Israel at that time was a poor country without a military-industrial complex. Therefore, the creation of ultrasound and its production at its factories is difficult to overestimate. If you compare it with STENs, including self-made ones, then ultrasound is better in any case. The main task of saturating the Israeli army with automatic weapons using ultrasound was completed.

[Altmann]

Submachine guns vz. 23/25 and up. 24/26 was built by Jaroslav Holecek from Ceska Zbrojovka in Strakonice. A characteristic feature of these submachine guns is the design of the bolt, a significant part of its length is located in the space above and around the barrel. This design allows the overall length of the weapon to be reduced while maintaining the required barrel length. This solution made it possible to shift the center of gravity of the weapon above the shooter’s hand and place the magazine in the pistol grip. A similar solution was used in the design of the Israeli ultrasound submachine gun.

[Tests]

Kostya1 (Konstantin), if the PM is sighted at 25 meters with 12,5 cm above the average point of impact - “under the bull’s eye”, at 100 m you will hit exactly where you were aiming. At 25 meters, after all, they were aiming at “8”. The flight trajectory of the bullet exceeds the aiming line at 60 m by 17 cm, and then by 100 m it drops to 0.

[Altmann]

In 1948, there were enough weapons on the territory of Czechoslovakia, which we sold to the Israelis. However, at the same time, those young people who survived the concentration camp were trained. They were trained by the best Czech soldiers from the Royal Air Force and those who fought in Russia. The tanks trained in Žatec under the leadership of the strict Hero of the USSR, Major Tesarzhik. The hero of the USSR, Major Sochor, was an exemplary master of machine guns and saboteurs. They were able to develop the boys. In the meantime, we sent the planes disassembled. They gathered in Israel and concluded: these boys and girls won the war by demanding training.