Source: Four fleets and one flotilla are being withdrawn from the military districts under the direct subordination of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy

The Russian Ministry of Defense continues to reorganize in connection with the creation of two new military districts; it will affect all four fleets and the Caspian flotilla. According to an informed source, by December 1, the fleets will be withdrawn from the military districts and will come under the direct subordination of the Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy.

From December 1, 2023, the Northern Fleet will lose the status of a joint strategic command, as several regions from its composition will be included in the Leningrad Military District. The Northern Fleet itself, as well as the Pacific, Black Sea, Baltic and Caspian flotillas, will come under the direct subordination of the Navy Commander-in-Chief Nikolai Evmenov, leaving the military districts. The main headquarters of the Navy will remain in St. Petersburg for now, but in the future it will be moved, where it is not yet known, but presumably to Moscow.

By December 1, four fleets and the Caspian flotilla will return to the direct subordination of the Navy Commander-in-Chief. The corresponding decision has been made. Also, from December 1, the Northern Fleet will lose its status as a joint strategic command. Despite the reassignment of the fleets to the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, he and the Main Headquarters of the Navy will remain in St. Petersburg for now

- leads TASS source words.

This summer it became known that the Russian military department had approved a plan for the deployment of two new interspecific strategic territorial associations. We are talking about the Leningrad and Moscow military districts, which will appear within the Ministry of Defense by the end of 2023. The Leningrad Military District will be recreated to fend off threats from Finland and Estonia, the Moscow Military District will be responsible for the Ukrainian direction. Part of the Western Military District will go to the Leningrad Military District, this was reported last year, and part of the Southern and, possibly, Central Military District will go to the Moscow Military District, there is no exact data.

Comments

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Thank God... As usual, the war put everything in its place

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Thank God... As usual, the war put everything in its place

Nope. The same Black Sea Fleet and Baltic Fleet are completely dependent on ground forces. But now they will have to solve all the problems of interaction with the districts that have become “alien” through Moscow.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alexey RA

But now they will have to solve all the problems of interaction with the districts that have become “alien” through Moscow.

And if you look at it from a different angle, it turns out that you can shield yourself from the alternatively gifted orders of the ground forces by subordination to the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

And if you look at it from a different angle, it turns out that you can shield yourself from the alternatively gifted orders of the ground forces by subordination to the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy

Don't you know how this ends for inland sea fleets in wartime?
During the same World War II, the Navy was generally a separate independent People's Commissariat at the NGO level - so what? Within a couple of months, both the Baltic Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet found themselves subordinate to the ground commands in directions and fronts - first operationally, and then directly. And how famously the army men took the Air Force from the Navy...
PMSM, an inland sea fleet independent of the army, is a utopia.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Alexey RA

Don't you know how this ends for inland sea fleets in wartime?

And let yourself :))

Quote: Alexey RA

PMSM, an inland sea fleet independent of the army, is a utopia.

I don’t argue, but there is a nuance. When a naval fleet is trained in peacetime, there is a chance that in wartime it will be the fleet, that is, a combat-ready force, that will be at the disposal of the districts. When, in peacetime, the fleet is taken over by the land forces, this probability is sharply reduced.

[AAK]

Well, at least at the KChF there are so many alternatively gifted “naval commanders” that they are guided only by alternatively gifted orders - an example of a year and a half before their eyes...

[UAZ 452]

These reorganizations are not at all related to the search for the most optimal options for management and interaction. The main goal of organizational events is the organizational events themselves. During all these upheavals, it’s just raining gold on the rear people, financiers, and personnel officers. You can easily make a lot of money from all these mergers, divisions, reassignments, liquidations with subsequent formation!
So, more than once, at intervals of several years, we will observe the consolidation of districts with their subsequent division, the reorganization of brigades into divisions and divisions into brigades, the reassignment of entire branches of the military, etc. If this is necessary (beneficial) for someone, then the stars you have to turn it on and off. Over and over again, in a circle.

[Aerodrome]

I’m not a staff officer, explain in your fingers whether this is good or not. and in case of war?

[UAZ 452]

In the event of war, interaction between ground forces and fleets will be possible (knowing our realities) exclusively through the general command in Moscow, that is, the General Staff. And if you consider that the Navy Commander-in-Chief is now stationed in St. Petersburg, there are fears that effective interaction will be impossible in principle.
And if the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet, in the event of a major war, are aimed at solving strategic problems that are in many ways different from the tasks of ground forces, then the Black Sea Fleet and Baltic Fleet are not only strategic, but have no independent significance, and if they still demonstrate their independence from ground forces, then they will simply be a burden, of no use, and their ships and bases must be protected, since there is no hope for them themselves in this regard.
PS And what the elder theorists from the High Command of the Navy, who have been unable to formulate a strategy for the development of the Navy, its goals and objectives in modern war, are really capable of commanding is generally an open question. Also, is this space between the General Staff (who are also not geniuses, by the way) and the fleets located many thousands of kilometers from each other necessary at all?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: UAZ 452

There are fears that effective interaction will be impossible in principle.

This is understandable, the question is different. Since the fleets are subordinate to the districts, it turns out that all processes, not only the war itself, but also preparations for it, go through the land command. Which in naval affairs... not really. And whatever they are

Quote: UAZ 452

elder theorists from the Navy Commander-in-Chief

They still know a little more about the fleet.

Quote: UAZ 452

And what the elder theorists from the Navy Commander-in-Chief, who have been unable to formulate a strategy for the development of the Navy, its goals and objectives in modern war, are really capable of commanding is generally an open question.

“He can do everything, but who will allow him...” (c). I do apologize, but the fleet is not self-sufficient in these matters. Its goals and objectives should follow from the goals and objectives of the country’s armed forces as a whole, and those, in turn, from the list of threats to the state to which the Armed Forces are called upon to respond. We are very good with the talking shop, but with specifics we are very bad.
In such conditions, talking about a fleet development strategy...

[AAK]

Dear Andrey! The question of the self-sufficiency of the fleet and the competence of its “naval commanders” is of course interesting, but in this case I am much more concerned about one small but very practical point: how will this disturbance affect the organization of supplies for the 810th OGV.BRMP and the 126th Guards BRBO , which belonged to the KChF? So that it does not turn out that the reorganized naval rear has no nichrome, but it is necessary to fight ..

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: AAK

But on this occasion, I am much more concerned about one small but very practical point: how will this disturbance affect the organization of supplies for the 810th Guards Brigade and the 126th Guards Brigade, which belonged to the KChF?

Dear ACC, I cannot give an exact answer to this question, since I still am not aware of the specifics of the allocation of fleets. But even in our realities, it is difficult to imagine that the Marines leading the database would be squeezed for supplies

[Stanislav82]

It is difficult to give an unambiguous assessment here. On the one hand, this is how it should be - a fleet is a fleet. Well suited to the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet - they perform real tasks there. But the Black Sea Fleet and the Baltic Fleet, like the Caspian Flotilla, are generally in confined spaces. By the way, on this resource there was once a joke about the name of the fleets among the Marines - Northern Fleet - Modern Fleet, Pacific Fleet - also a fleet, Black Sea Fleet - what is the fleet? Caspian flotilla - caramel factory.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Stanislav82

By the way, on this resource there was once a joke about the name of the fleets among the Marines - Northern Fleet - Modern Fleet, Pacific Fleet - also a fleet, Black Sea Fleet - what is the fleet? Caspian flotilla - caramel factory.

I also came across a slightly different decoding:
SF - The very fleet.
Pacific Fleet is also a fleet.
BF - former fleet.
The Black Sea Fleet is a fleet, but not a fleet.

[Hiller]

Well, the Navy does not conduct its own operations, unless in isolation from the main forces in some distant theater of operations (theater of military operations). It is not for nothing that they are called combined arms operations and commanded (combined arms commanders-chiefs). The principle of unity of command is basic. Groups of heterogeneous forces and assets are created, plans for military operations are developed, and they are commanded by a single commander. Everything returns to normal. Serdyukov and Makarov destroyed the entire system and are living peacefully and happily, despite the billions of dollars in costs thrown away.
The job of fleet commanders and the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy is to prepare naval personnel for combat missions, provide the rear of the fleet, engage in R&D and their implementation in the troops (navy), order and improve the forces and assets of the fleets, conduct the necessary exercises and organize interaction with land groups. How do you imagine a ground commander in this capacity? At one time, separate combat helicopter squadrons were introduced into motorized rifle (tank) divisions. And it immediately became clear that the division commander had never been a pilot and how to train crews? There are no governing documents, nor a professional boss. We drank through the roof. Now the same accordion applies to naval and ground forces. So we are returning “to our native harbor”! But at what cost?

[Sergey_Simonov]

So everything returns to how it was before the “Serdyukovism”.
And this is good !

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Sergey_Simonov

So everything returns to how it was before the “Serdyukovism”.

But in every major war, the Baltic Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet were immediately reassigned to the army. Because they were completely dependent on the situation on land, and their main task was to support the army.

[UAZ 452]

In reality, what we have in the Black and Baltic Seas is no longer very suitable for a flotilla, let alone a fleet. And most importantly, a significant strengthening of these associations is simply impractical, based on geography and the current military-political situation. And does it make sense to have a bunch of admirals commanding a very meager economy? Or if you wash your pants, at least let them have wide stripes?

[dmi.pris1]

Wait to applaud! For the newly created districts, where will they take units? Yes, they will tear them away from the Western and Southern ones. Another thing is that when new units are created, there is an increase in combat units... But this is an increase, first of all, in senior officer posts.

[UAZ 452]

Yes, they can create new parts exclusively on paper, not for the first time. There will be a colonel's position as a commander, a new general's position - a division commander, for 3-4 such units, and... in fact - that's all. Well, then (the question is - how much later?) they will recruit people (and who and where, at what training base will they be trained?), they will send equipment from storage bases (the same T-55s, which will somehow be driven onto platforms so that they They continued to rust in new open areas, but not at the storage base, but in the park of a combat-ready unit, as it were). And there will be another military unit, the whole point of existence of which is to fill out countless logs and reports, ensure good reception for inspection personnel, and guard duty to protect scrap metal deposits. And everyone is happy until they decide to send this unit to fight... then - turn out the lights!

[Alexey RA]

Quote from: dmi.pris1

Wait to applaud! For the newly convened districts, where will they get the units?

The answer is given in the article:

From December 1, 2023, the Northern Fleet will lose the status of a joint strategic command, as several regions from its composition will be included in the Leningrad Military District.

That is, the fleet, as a purely naval association, will most likely lose most of its ground forces in favor of the army. The same situation can happen with BF.
In general, another structural reorganization will take place in the style of “Trishka’s caftan.”

[bayard]

Quote: Alexey RA

In general, another structural reorganization will take place in the style of “Trishka’s caftan.”

In fact, the staffing level of the RF Armed Forces is increasing by one and a half times, without taking into account those mobilized. Not only two new districts are being formed, but also new armies, corps, divisions, and 9 new/revived air regiments. So not only Trishkin's caftan, but also fresh filling.
As far as I understand, new formations are now being formed - headquarters, command staff, logistics support, weapons, parks, warehouses, deployment sites, training grounds, shooting ranges... And the actual personnel will be filled only at the last moment. For these new formations of one weapon, transport, uniform, equipment, so much needs to be produced/purchased, so much must be built... Maybe then normal conscription will begin, already for a reasonable period of service, so that the soldier not only has time to train, but also to serve the Motherland, I consolidated the acquired skills and received the VUS. And given the complexity of modern technology, its cost and the cost of training a specialist from a conscript, even two years will not be enough. Moreover, we have a demographic gap, and many young people are generally unfit for military service due to their health. Therefore, I am sure that the only correct decision will be to introduce a THREE-YEAR term of military service. And there is no need to be afraid - in Israel, not only boys, but also girls serve for 3 years. And only after 3 years of service do they acquire full civil rights. . . By the way, I would also propose that voting rights should be given not to every minor who has reached the age of 18, but only to those who have served 3 years of compulsory (or alternative) service... And to women - only to those who are married and have children. Only mature, conscious people should have the right to elect for the Country. By the way, this will also encourage both to serve the Motherland, paying Military Duty (as it was before), and for girls to get married and give birth to children.
And let the “unique snowflakes” live with a loss of rights and without the right to vote. The civil service for such people and a whole list of occupations will also be inaccessible. . . Maybe this way there will be at least some quality screening for officials and socially significant professions.

[Silver99]

It is too much honor to create an entire Military District to fend off threats from Finland and Estonia. Even during the times of the USSR, the Leningrad Military District performed completely different tasks: the protection of the Arctic and the coast, and it is no secret that the shortest route for the Strategic Missile Forces in the United States lies through the North Pole, again the tasks of protecting the Northern Sea Route and coastal shelves of oil and gas fields in the near future time will be relevant.

[knn54]

Silver99\.Don’t forget that in addition to the Baltic states and Finland, there is Norway and, in the future, Sweden.

[ZovSailor]

Breaking is not building, how many optimizations and upgrades were there?
in civilian life in sensitive areas: medicine, education - schools, universities,
police, etc;
There are some positive ones, but many are not positive ones.
This is much more serious: national security is affected.
the entire country and allies, so that in the future it will not be necessary,
like with the police, it hurts excruciatingly
for the years spent aimlessly.

[Alexey RA]

By December 1, four fleets and the Caspian flotilla will return to the direct subordination of the Navy Commander-in-Chief.

Hmmm... that is, you can’t count on interaction with the army again: interspecies interaction through Moscow. The same independent Black Sea Fleet will become a “stranger” for the district and will be forced to rely on its own forces.
And how much fun it will be in the Leningrad Military District when they decide which type of armed forces will defend the Kaliningrad region.

[bayard]

Quote: Alexey RA

And how much fun it will be in the Leningrad Military District when they decide which type of armed forces will defend the Kaliningrad region.

They will create a unified command headed by the district commander and the fleet commander as a deputy. Perhaps it makes sense to create Headquarters of Groups of Forces, as was the case in the late USSR. At the same time, this also provides backup control in the event of a defeat of the central command center.
In any case, the restoration of the powers of the Main Command of the Navy and the subordination of the fleets to the Commander is a good thing. In terms of combat training, appointment/placement of personnel, planning for the development/construction of the Fleet, its combat training, organization of combat services and long-distance campaigns, inter-fleet transitions, etc. , and so on.

[Rom8681]

And before the General Staff was guided when it subordinated fleets to commands and disbanded districts

[Researcher M]

Moving and reorganizing at such a time is akin to chaos. The Civil Code of the Navy has again acquired directive power and this is certainly necessary and correct. I really want everything to go smoothly and competently, for the benefit of the country.

[Strato]

Makhachkala airport attack aircraft can become marines of the Caspian flotilla, a whole battalion will be recruited

[UAZ 452]

So now they are being drafted into the Russian army as punishment? Well then, should we be surprised when in Volnovakha two contract soldiers shot 9 locals, including children? If those who belong in the zone are recruited into the army, this will be a regularity and commonplace.

[Stanislav82]

What do you. You can also assemble a brigade.

[tralflot1832]

The right decision, admirals must focus on their profile - the defense of their sea borders and so that nuclear submarines and SSBNs are at bases according to their schedule.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: tralflot1832

The right decision, admirals must focus on their profile - the defense of their sea borders and so that nuclear submarines and SSBNs are at bases according to their schedule.

So these are the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet.
Where should the Black Sea Fleet and Baltic Fleet go? They cannot take a single step without an army, and they are needed primarily to help this very army.

[tralflot1832]

Alexey RA, my personal opinion is all bullshit from Finland, which joined NATO. Only a few people on the site know the base of ground units on the Kola Peninsula. I’m not one of them, but just like a motorist I know where they are and where We were there and went to sea with the guys who served conscripts on the Kola Peninsula. To the admiral - admiral's, to the general - general's.

[couch]

I don’t understand: does rearranging the positions of the terms change anything?

[Aleks354]

Number of generals and admirals

[Castro Ruiz]

Only an idiot could subdue the Navy with boots. The results of “commanding” the Black Sea Fleet with boots are obvious.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: CastroRuiz

Only an idiot could subdue the Navy with boots. The results of “commanding” the Black Sea Fleet with boots are obvious.

Well, now the admirals at the Black Sea Fleet will deploy. The air defense is commanded by the district, the air force is commanded by the district, and the fleet is commanded by St. Petersburg. The interaction will be great. And most importantly, the fleet has become completely alien to the district, so its applications will be considered last.

[RMT]

The sailors at this stage defeated the “infantry”, but the problem remained. What tasks can the fleet solve independently? In addition to the protection of the naval base, and even without remembering the KChF.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: RMT

What tasks can the fleet solve independently? In addition to the protection of the naval base, and even without remembering the KChF.

Why only KChF? Look at the composition of the OVR of the remaining fleets (especially the year of entry into operation of the MPK and TSCH) - and you will be impressed. Alas, the security of the Navy bases has practically died, even in Vilyuchinsk and Gadzhievo.

[Jonny_Su]

Now or as it should be? Now there are almost none - but this is precisely the condition that has been recognized as unfit.

[Stanislav82]

And now the question. Parts of the coastal formations will go to whom. A simple example - the Marine Corps, the same 810th Marine Brigade in Sevastopol, who is now - the fleet or the ground forces? Who will the 8th artillery regiment in Perevalny, which belonged to the Russian Black Sea Fleet, go to? 126th Coastal Defense Brigade where again?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Stanislav82

And now the question. Parts of the coastal formations will go to whom. A simple example - the Marine Corps, the same 810th Marine Brigade in Sevastopol, who is now - the fleet or the ground forces? Who will the 8th artillery regiment in Perevalny, which belonged to the Russian Black Sea Fleet, go to? 126th Coastal Defense Brigade where again?

Well, they can leave the brigades to the fleets. The main question is where will the two corps of the Coastal Forces go (one to the Northern Fleet, one to the Baltic Fleet)? After all, the same Kaliningrad 11th AK BO BF was formed in 2016, for the most part from former units and formations of the Ground Forces (transferred to coastal defense in 1997) and the Aerospace Forces.

[Anchonsha]

A strange dispute flared up in the comments, whether it was good or bad that all four fleets and the Caspian flotilla left the command of the ground leaders of our troops. Yes, everything is being done to improve the use of all fleets and subordination to a single commander of the Navy. And interaction with the ground forces will always remain close, since sometimes common tasks are solved; interaction cannot be done without interaction.

[Anchonsha]

A strange dispute flared up in the comments, whether it was good or bad that all four fleets and the Caspian flotilla left the command of the ground leaders of our troops. Yes, everything is being done to improve the use of all fleets and subordination to a single commander of the Navy. And interaction with the ground forces will always remain close, since sometimes common tasks are solved; interaction cannot be done without interaction.

[Jonny_Su]

In my sofa opinion, the fleet should deal with the tasks of the sea: interrupt the enemy’s communications, block his sea communications and ensure the safety of its sea communications (including landing and military transport). And prepare for these tasks appropriately. And this is precisely what we did not succeed in and now, in fact, we have not: the Black Sea Fleet is not able to block the ports of Ukraine and ensure its own free movements across the Black Sea. And he is also responsible for the projection of naval power into the Mediterranean and Red Sea - and this work cannot be done from the headquarters of the land military district.
On the other hand, if something happens, who will enforce the naval blockade of our Baltic partners? And this is the strategic task of the Baltic Fleet.
Therefore, I consider it very useful to remove fleets from subordination to districts.

[Lomaster]

Even in a modern hybrid war against an enemy without a fleet, but with anti-ship missiles and under- and surface-based drones, the complete incapacity of the entire Black Sea Fleet was revealed. What will happen if the enemy becomes a country with a real fleet? For example, Japan or Türkiye. Where then should the remains of the surviving ships be driven? To the Arctic and Antarctica? The base in Novorossiysk will no longer save you from Turkish missiles. Like the base in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. Alas and ah, but it is so. Instead of a bulky and vulnerable fleet, drones of various types are needed. Over- and underwater, ground- and air-launched anti-ship missiles. And all these 40-year-old frigates and cruisers are just a fat target for the enemy.

[storm]

Why VO Leningradsky, and not Arkhangelsk or Murmansk???
It is in those regions that the main bases of the Northern Fleet are concentrated.
Leningrad/Petrograd Military District is, first of all, the Baltic Fleet + Kaliningrad.

[storm]

Crimea without the Black Sea Fleet is like Kaliningrad without the Baltic Fleet, like Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands without the Pacific Fleet, like Novaya Zemlya without the Northern Fleet, another stupidity from the Ministry of Defense with far-reaching consequences...
Instead of organizing operational cooperation between the Navy, Aerospace Forces and Army, bureaucrats from the Ministry of Defense are changing the places of generals.....

[Landwarrior]

The sweetest thing... Reform...
Allocation and development of funds....

[Eug]

And who will assign tasks for landing operations in the interests of ground forces to fleets and detail them? During the Great Patriotic War, this was done by the Supreme Headquarters, but now it is not there... does this mean the abandonment of amphibious operations during the Northern Military District?
And again - there will be more admiral-general positions....

[Jonny_Su]

Sorry, how come there is no bet? The operation is led by the Chief of the General Staff, much higher. Above that comes incompetence.

[Lomaster]

The fleet has become a disgrace to the Russian Armed Forces. Strange and scary as it may seem, this is true. Now Russia has only one ally left - the army.

[storm]

Based on the results of the Northern Military District, the Ministry of Defense realized that the fleet requires many billions for maintenance and construction, and its combat effectiveness is almost zero; several Calibers released in a month are “a drop in the bucket.”
To protect fleet bases, it is necessary to attract significant forces of air defense, aviation, special forces, and ground forces.
Coastal troops with the Bastion and Bal missile systems + naval aviation turned out to be significantly more effective, mobile and resistant to enemy attacks.
They need to be strengthened and developed as much as possible.
With the construction of new ships “in complete disarray”, there are no diesel engines, gas turbine units, electronics...., and therefore there is no hope that the hundreds of billions spent will ensure the protection of Russia’s maritime borders.