"Where hell ends, the Airborne Forces begin." Side view of the airborne troops

In the fog of stars, the plane leaves
Back to the assigned base,
And here we have a soldier’s debt calling -
Landing to the west abandoned by order.

And somewhere between parachute lines
Downstairs lights are on Bratislava,
And slowly sit on the sand
The guys from Moscow and Volgograd.

The control room of the Ruzyne International Airport, Prague. The usual night shift turns into a nightmare: an armada of aircraft is approaching on radar screens. Who are they? What's happening? On radio communications, the teams in Czech are snarling: “Stop launching and receiving airplanes, immediately release the runway.”

Behind the dispatchers' backs, a door crunches and tilts, armed people rush into the room without any insignia. The Czechs, finally, understand what is happening - some people manage to break down the radio equipment. The control tower was out of operation, but GRU special forces were already rampaging on the airfield, landing a couple of hours before the landing of the main forces aboard the Trojan Horse, a civilian aircraft that had requested an emergency landing.

A small scuffle occurs at the building of the airport fire brigade - warned from the control tower, firefighters are trying to block the runway with vehicles and special equipment. But confronted with armed Soviet special forces, hastily retreat. The terminal building is blocked, all exits to the field and access to the lane are blocked. Had time!

And in the sky over Prague, the landing lights of the An-12 are already swinging. The first pot-bellied transporter comes in for landing, unloading, in a matter of minutes - and the plane, roaring with four engines, leaves for reinforcements. Along the edges of the airfield are piles of unused parachutes. In just the next day, 450 landed on the Ruzine airport with 7 guards. airborne division ...

If we were thrown away at night, then half of the division ... Do you know how many people were on the airfields, how many planes, how many people would I have buried?
- General Lev Gorelov, while the commander of 7 Guards. airborne

The word "parachute" is practically not found in the Air Force Air Force Charter. And in each paragraph of the statute devoted to the landing, always prudently follow the clarification: "dropping the landing (landing)" or "landing area (airfield)".
The Charter was written by smart people who knew the military well. history and the practice of airborne assault forces in various military conflicts.

Landing armored vehicles parachute method. Fantastic sight

The largest operation in the history of Russian Airborne Forces is the Vyazemsky airborne operation, carried out by four airborne brigades and the 250 Infantry Regiment of the Red Army in January-February 1942. Many tragic and instructive moments were associated with this event.

The first group of paratroopers was landed in the rear of the German troops south of Vyazma 18 - 22 in January 1942. It is noteworthy that the 250 th infantry regiment landed (attention!) Landing method. Thanks to the successful actions of the paratroopers, in a few days the 1-th Guards Cavalry Corps of the Red Army broke into their location. The possibility of encircling a part of the German forces of the Army Group Center was designated.

In order to strengthen the Soviet grouping, the second group of paratroopers were urgently landed behind enemy lines. By February 1, the 2497 man and 34 tons of cargo were parachuted into the indicated area. The result turned out to be discouraging - the cargo was lost, and the entire 1300 paratroopers went to the gathering place.

No less alarming results were obtained during the Dnieper airborne operation - heavy anti-aircraft fire forced the aircraft to rise above the clouds, as a result, 4500 paratroopers, dropped from a two-kilometer altitude, were scattered over an area of ​​tens of square kilometers. According to the results of the operation, a directive was issued as follows:

The release of mass landing at night indicates the illiteracy of the organizers of this case, because, as experience shows, dropping a mass night landing even on its territory is fraught with great dangers.
I order the remaining one and a half airborne brigades to withdraw from the subordination of the Voronezh Front and to consider them as a reserve of the Headquarters.
I.STALIN

It was not by chance that most of the airborne units of the Red Army during the war were transformed into rifle ones.

Similar effects had massive airborne assault forces in the Western European theater of operations. In May, 1941, 16 of thousands of German paratroopers, displaying exceptional heroism, were able to capture the island of Crete (Operation Mercury), but suffered so heavy losses that the air forces of Wehrmacht dropped out of the game forever. And the German command had to part with plans to capture the Suez Canal with the help of paratroopers.

The body of a dead German paratrooper, Operation Mercury

In the summer of 1943, the American paratroopers found themselves in no less difficult conditions: during the landing in Sicily, they were in 80 kilometers from their intended target due to strong wind. Even less lucky that day to the British - a quarter of the British paratroopers drowned in the sea.

Well, the Second World War ended long ago - since then, the means of landing, communications and control systems have radically changed for the better. Let's look at a couple of more recent examples:

For example, the Israeli elite parachute brigade "Tsankhanim." There is one successful parachute assault on the account of this unit: the capture of the strategically important Mitla Pass (1956 year). However, there are a number of controversial points: firstly, the landing was a point - only a couple of hundreds of paratroopers. Secondly, the landing took place in a desert area, initially without any opposition from the enemy.

In the following years, the Tsanhaim parachute brigade was never used for its intended purpose: the men deftly jumped with a parachute during the exercises, but in the context of real hostilities (the Six-Day War or the Doomsday War) they preferred to move on the ground under the cover of heavy armored vehicles, or conducted point sabotage operations using helicopters.

The airborne troops are a highly mobile army of the Land Forces and are designed to perform missions in the enemy rear as airborne assault forces.
- Airborne combat regulations, paragraph 1

Soviet paratroopers repeatedly took part in combat operations outside the USSR, participated in the suppression of insurgencies in Hungary and Czechoslovakia, fought in Afghanistan and were recognized as the elite of the Armed Forces. However, the actual combat use of the Airborne Forces was very different from the romantic image of a parachuter descending from the sky on parachute lines, as was widely represented in popular culture.

Suppression of the uprising in Hungary (November 1956):
- The soldiers of the 108 Guards Parachute Regiment were taken to the Hungarian Tekel and Veszprem airfields, and immediately seized strategic facilities. Now, taking control of the air gates, it was easy to get help and reinforcements and develop an offensive deep into enemy territory.
- The 80 th Guards Parachute Regiment arrived on the border with Hungary by rail (Beregovo station), from there marching 400-km march to Budapest;

Suppression of the uprising in Czechoslovakia (1968 g.):
During Operation Danube, Soviet troops, with the support of Bulgarian, Polish, Hungarian and German units, established control over Czechoslovakia during 36 hours by conducting a quick and bloodless occupation of the country. It was 21 August 1968 events related to the brilliant seizure of Ruzyne International Airport that became the prologue to this article.
In addition to the capital's airport, the Soviet landing force captured the airfields of Turzhani and Namisht, turning them into impregnable fortified points, where more and more new forces arrived from the USSR in an endless stream.

Introduction of troops to Afghanistan (1979):
In a matter of hours, the Soviet landing force captured all the most important airfields of this Central Asian country: Kabul, Bagram and Shindad (Kandahar was captured later). Within a few days, the large forces of the limited contingent of Soviet troops arrived there, and the airfields themselves became the most important transport portals for the delivery of weapons, equipment, fuel, food and equipment for the 40 Army.

The defense of the airfield is organized by separate company (platoon) strong points with anti-tank means and air defense means located in them in the directions of the probable advancement of the enemy. Removing the front edge of strong points should exclude direct fire from aircraft on the runway tanks and enemy guns. The gaps between the strongholds are covered by mine-explosive barriers. Extension routes and reserve deployment lines are being prepared. Some units are allocated for ambush operations along the enemy’s approach.
- Airborne combat regulations, paragraph 206

Hell! It is even spelled out in the Charter.

It’s much easier and more efficient to land at the capital’s airport on the enemy’s territory, dig in, and transfer the Pskov thugs division overnight to get to the seashore covered with spikes or jump from transcendental heights into the unknown. It becomes possible prompt delivery of heavy armored vehicles and other bulky equipment. The paratroopers receive help and reinforcements in a timely manner, evacuation of the wounded and prisoners is simplified, and convenient transport routes connecting the capital’s airport with the center of the country make this object truly invaluable in any local war.

The only risk is that the enemy can guess the plans and at the last moment block the runway with bulldozers. But, as practice shows, with a proper approach to ensuring secrecy, no serious problems arise. Finally, it is possible to use an advance squad disguised as a “peaceful Soviet tractor” for insurance, which will restore order on the airfield a few minutes before the arrival of the main forces (there opens a wide scope for improvisation: an “emergency” landing, a group of “athletes” with black bags Adibas, etc.)

The preparation of the captured airfield (landing pad) to receive assault and material means consists in clearing the runway and taxiways for landing airplanes (helicopters), unloading machinery and cargo from them and equipping access roads for vehicles.
- Airborne combat regulations, paragraph 258

Actually, there is nothing new here - a brilliant tactic with the seizure of the airport appeared half a century ago. Budapest, Prague and Bagram are vivid confirmations of this scheme. In the same scenario, the Americans landed at the airport of Mogadishu (the civil war in Somalia, 1993 year). In the same scenario, peacekeeping forces in Bosnia acted (taking control of the Tuzla airport, beginning of the 90's), which was later turned into the main supporting base of the "blue helmets".

Russian paratroopers unload equipment. Tuzla Airport, Bosnia

The main objective of the "Pristina Throw" - the famous Russian paratroopers raid in June 1999 was ... who would have thought! ... the seizure of the airport "Slatina", where the arrival of the replenishment was expected - up to two regiments of the Airborne Forces. The operation itself was carried out brilliantly (its inglorious finale is no longer relevant to the topic of this article, because it bears an obvious political, not military color).
Of course, the reception "seizure of the capital's airport" is suitable only for local wars with a deliberately weak and unprepared enemy.

To repeat such a trick in Iraq was already unrealistic - the Gulf War was in the spirit of old traditions: aviation bombs, tank and motorized columns rush forward, if necessary, in the rear of the enemy, dotted landing groups: special forces, saboteurs, and air correctors. However, there was never any talk of any massive drop of paratroopers. Firstly, there was no need for this.

Secondly, a massive parachute landing in our time is an unjustifiably risky and senseless event: suffice it to recall the quotation of General Lev Gorelov, who frankly admitted that in the case of parachute landing, half of his division could have died. But the Czechs in 1968 had neither C-300, nor Patriot air defense systems, nor portable Stingers ...

Pskov paratroopers are preparing for landing, 2005 g.

The use of parachute assault forces in World War III seems to be even more dubious. Under the conditions when even super-sound fighters are at mortal risk in the zone of fire of modern anti-aircraft missile systems, hope that a huge transport IL-76 will be able to fly and land troops near Washington ...
Popular rumor ascribes to Reagan the phrase: “I would not be surprised if on the second day of the war I see guys in vests and blue berets on the threshold of the White House.” I do not know if the President of the United States said such words, but he will receive guaranteed thermonuclear ammunition half an hour after the start of the war.

Based on historical experience, the paratroopers showed themselves well in the composition of the airborne assault brigades - at the end of 60's, the rapid development of helicopter technology made it possible to develop a concept for the use of airborne assault forces in the enemy’s rear areas. Point helicopter assault forces played a significant role in the Afghan war.

The paratrooper first runs as much as he can, and then - as much as necessary
- Army humor

Over the past 30 years, a peculiar image of a paratrooper has formed in Russian society: for some unclear reason, the paratrooper does not “hang on the lines”, but sits on the armor of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles in all hot spots.

That's right - the Airborne Forces, the beauty and pride of the Armed Forces, being one of the most prepared and combat-ready combat arms, are regularly involved in the performance of tasks in local conflicts. In this case, the landing is used as a motorized infantry, together with units of motorized infantry, special forces, riot police and even marines! (After all, it is no secret that the Russian marines participated in the storming of Grozny).

5-th company 350-th Guards. airborne regiment, Afghanistan

This raises a reasonable, narrow-minded question: if during the past 70 years the Airborne Forces have never, under any circumstances, been used for their intended purpose (namely, a massive landing of parachutists), then why are there any talk about the need for specific systems suitable for landing a parachute canopy: amphibious assault vehicle BMD-4M or antitank SAU 2C25 "Sprut"?

If the landing is always used as an elite motorized infantry in local wars, is it not better to arm the guys with conventional tanks, heavy SPGs and infantry fighting vehicles? Acting on the front line without heavy armored vehicles is a betrayal of the soldiers.

Take a look at the US Marine Corps - US Marines have forgotten the smell of the sea. The Marine Corps turned into expeditionary forces - a kind of “special forces”, prepared for operations outside the United States, with its tanks, helicopters and aircraft. The main armored vehicles of the Marine Corps are the Abrams 65-ton tank, a pile of iron with negative buoyancy.

BMD-4M. Beautiful car, but one hit by the DShK bullet will tear the caterpillar

It is worth noting that the local Airborne Forces also perform the role of rapid reaction forces capable of arriving anywhere in the world and join the battle immediately upon arrival at the site. It is clear that the paratroopers in this case need a special vehicle, but why do we need aluminum BMP-4М, at the price of three T-90 tanks? Which, in the end, is affected by the most primitive means: shoots of DShK and RPG-7.

Of course, no need to reach the point of absurdity - in 1968, due to a shortage of vehicles, the paratroopers hijacked all the cars from the parking lot of Ruzyne airport. And they did the right thing:

... an explanation to the personnel of the need for rational use of ammunition and other materiel, skillful use captured from the enemy weapons and military equipment;
- Airborne combat regulations, paragraph 57

I would like to know the opinion of the landing party, what is not satisfied with their usual armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, compared with the "supercar" BMD-4M?

Comments

[dmitreach]

On the site vpk.name I read the thought, in the comments: "We still do not know why we need the Airborne Forces with their parachutes, but cherries are fighting, better than motorized rifles ..." (by PPSh)
funny said.

[Speedy]

The fact that the airborne "armored aluminum" is needed is understandable to those who are familiar with what is happening in the Far East. Relatively speaking, the landing method may have to land on our territory (if the Chinese plow our runways, which they will most likely do). And parachute training, among other things, is the strongest school of personal courage.

[dmitreach]

It's time to stop looking at the map of Russia as a political, flat one. Full of places where quickly, except as a landing, you can’t deliver wars.

[tlauicol]

if they plowed airfields - it means they have air supremacy and they suppressed air defense. You throw 30 thousand people there. slaughter through the air? The article is correct, without hatred. in modern wars, the landing position on the armor, and it should not be luminous

[dmitreach]

On the armor? In modern wars?
Better Lynx and BMD4M.
In addition to leaving the plane, they still know how to pack very quickly into it, with all the necessary belongings ..
being one of the most prepared and combat-ready combat arms, they are regularly involved in tasks in local conflicts.
и
domestic airborne forces also play the role of quick reaction forces, capable of arriving anywhere in the world and joining the battle immediately upon arrival.
I hope this will be the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in eleven years. In the image of the Airborne Forces.

[tlauicol]

well pack and with all the necessary belongings send to the area where the enemy suppressed air defense? what for ? In Crete, the British had one battery for two airfields, so the Germans lost 250 transporters - and this is with complete dominance in the air! No, the landing party needs armor and heavy weapons. And by air only small groups on the Mi35

[dmitreach]

And within the framework of Russia, under its "umbrella". (well, albeit within the boundaries of the CSTO)? Suddenly, where it explodes, a small war. We are not Americans, we are not in a hurry to the neighboring continent ... We would have Highly Mobile Airborne Troops. (tens of thousands of tanks of different models, and we passed a cropped army)

[Santa Fe]

Quote: dmitreach

And within the framework of Russia, under its "umbrella". (well, albeit within the boundaries of the CSTO)? Suddenly, where it explodes, a small war.

Then there will be a landing at international airports:

Borispol (Kiev)
Astana (Astana)
Manas (Bishkek)
them. Saparmurat Turkmenbashi (Ashgabat)
Kadala (Chita)
Genghis Khan (Ulaanbaatar)

[dmitreach]

But does this somehow contradict the concept of using the Airborne Forces in Russia?

[Santa Fe]

Borispol (Kiev)
Astana (Astana)
Manas (Bishkek)
them. Saparmurat Turkmenbashi (Ashgabat)
Kadala (Chita)
Genghis Khan (Ulaanbaatar)

Quote: dmitreach

But does this somehow contradict the concept of using the Airborne Forces in Russia?

Formally, yes. These are paratroopers
In fact - 100% coincidence with what we saw over the past half century

[dmitreach]

The word "parachute" is practically not found in the Air Force Air Force Charter. And in each paragraph of the statute devoted to the landing, always prudently follow the clarification: "dropping the landing (landing)" or "landing area (airfield)".
It turns out that the last half century of the Airborne Forces "formally violates" the charter.

[nnz226]

In order for the planes to land at the airports, they need to be captured, and the first throw already with parachutes will have to be done, of course, not directly on the runway, but somewhere nearby + the throw just on the "luminous" BMDs, otherwise when the tanks will arrive by land, and on foot to run from the landing area and the target - bad manners!

[tlauicol]

why then do we feed explosives within Russia? almost 200 thousand?

[dmitreach]

why do border guards? (I mean that they have different tasks)
Explosives will not fight outside the country. 888 did they fight?

Borispol (Kiev)
Astana (Astana)
Manas (Bishkek)
them. Saparmurat Turkmenbashi (Ashgabat)
Kadala (Chita)
Genghis Khan (Ulaanbaatar)

what do the vovans do there?

[tlauicol]

Why did they give Cheat?

[dmitreach]

sorry, at SWEET_SIXTEEN with copypastil.

[ilf]

As for the explosives, two special forces detachments took part in the battles in Tskhinvali, these are 17 main "Edelweiss" and one more detachment was also preparing for dispatch.

[Kortik]

Border guards are the shield of the Motherland, and the Airborne Forces are her sword!

[edge]

Border guards - the shield of the Motherland, and the airborne forces - her sword is said loudly, rather an arrow (or hit, miss, miss)

[Sergeantpro]

In 2008, the detachments of the CH BB provided the rear. Strange huh?

[postman]

Quote: Tlauicol

why then do we feed explosives within Russia?

Well, is it really not clear: the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia is a special military unit designed to ensure the internal security of the state, public security, protect the rights and freedoms of man and citizen from criminal and other illegal encroachments.
Federal Law of February 6, 1997 N27-ФЗ “On Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation”

The internal troops have aviation: 13 air regiments and individual squadrons (6 types of aircraft and 3 types of helicopters).

Own fleet- marine units armed with boats (over 120 units, including armored ones), armed with machine guns and automatic grenade launchers.
Pistols: PM, PMM, APS, PSM, PSS, PB (silent pistol) and PYa (6535 or Yarygin Pistol "Grach" is the newest model).
Special weapon: APS, SSP-1M (underwater pistol).
Machine guns: RPKS74, RPK74M, RPK74N, PK, PKS, PKMS, Pecheneg machine gun (newest).
Rifles: SVD, SVDS, SVU, VSS "Vintorez", MTs116M, SV-98, VSK-94, ASVK (the last four samples are the latest samples).
Submachine guns: PP-90, PP-93, AEK-919K "Kashtan", "Klin", "Kedr", "Kiparis", PP-19-0y "Vityaz" (all relatively new, "Vityaz" and AEK are the latest models).
Automata: AK, AK74, AS "Val", automatic machine 9A-91, OTs-14 "Groza" (the last three are new or newest models).
Automotive Engineering: GAZ - 2999, GAZ-29752 "Tiger", URAL - 4320 - 01 - armored vehicles. URAL - 4320 - 10, UAZ - HUNTER, UAZ - PATRIOT, KAMAZ - 4310, UAZ - 3962, ATZ - 7.5 - 4320, GAZ - 3102, UAZ - 31514.
Armored vehicles: BTR - 80, BMP - 2, BTR - 70, BRDM - 2A, BTR - 70m
When you go to the forest, mushrooms, be prepared to meet ....

[edge]

why then do we feed explosives within Russia? almost 200 thousand? everyone has their own tasks, and these guys do not eat their bread for nothing

[77bor1973]

Have you seen the German World War II parachutes? The German paratrooper was held hostage by the wind and could not control the descent, therefore huge losses are not surprising.

[Syrdon]

It must be understood that the German paratroopers jumped without weapons, the weapons were airborne separately, and it was scattered by the wind and they armed with almost knives managed to gain a foothold and then capture the island.

[Denzel13]

Pistols and grenades, everything else is separate. The exception is who in the gliders (they used them widely).

[Dikremnij]

Also, German paratroopers were assisted by mountain riflemen from the 5th mountain rifle division, who arrived in Crete on Greek fishing schooners, plus Italian units should be added to the Germans.

[rainer]

It is not true that your German mountaineers from the 5th division landed on gliders of a sea landing on Crete ... And the afftor forgot Operation Overlord, which does not fit into his concept ...

[Speedy]

If the airfields are plowed, this does not mean at all that the enemy has air supremacy, you can plow with missiles and saboteurs. And by parachute you can land where heavy equipment is otherwise simply lacking. Railways (and roads, by the way) in the Far East and Siberia are not everywhere and it is easier to cut them ... You can land parachute troops at any distance from these very roads ... Another question is that the Airborne Forces will have to slow down the "Chinese skating rink" to approach of the main forces. This, in my opinion, is not correct, this should have been done by the URs along the entire border with the PRC, but we have no other operational force (and we withdrew the troops from the border by agreement with the PRC, but in fact disbanded) we do not have. So the airborne forces need both aluminum and simple, albeit stored.

[77bor1973]

You can already land ...

[Region65]

I’ve been living all my life in the Far East and I don’t see any Chinese threat here ...... can I look blind or in the wrong direction?

[Region65]

the hike me the Chinese minusanuli :)

[postman]

Quote: Region65

Can I be blind or look in the wrong direction?

Yes, it is "difficult" to consider them:
two panzer divisions and one panzer brigade are part of the Lanzhou Military District.
one armored and one mechanized division, two armored and mechanized brigades in the Jinan Military District.
There is still Beijing.

Excellent highways and high-speed trains (type ICE-3)

Museums are being created in the border cities where copies of treaties and agreements, old maps, historical chronicles are exhibited, from which it follows that Russians live on Chinese lands.

On May 28, 1858, the Aigun Treaty was concluded between Russia and China

by which Russia received land south of the BRIGHT RED LINE.
Dol this acted Nerchinsk treaty of 1689.

They are far from "the same"

================================================== =======

"I have devoted twenty-five years of my life to the study of China and,
nonetheless, the only thing that I firmly learned
so it is that the world knows nothing about China. "
Vs. N. Ivanov

"Tell me there, in Moscow, from me, if you get there, that the main thing is that they do not believe the Chinese in any agreements, if these agreements cannot be reliably backed up. In my practice, the Chinese do not hold any agreements."
General D.L. Horvat - Head of the China-East Railway

[Region65]

however, their technology is hardly worth anything, considering that everything Chinese is in but, then you still need to see how their fakes and plagiarism will behave in a real combat situation (I know perfectly well how Chinese-made small arms behave - Kalashnikovs, tt and so on, wedges idin through one, they almost fall apart in their hands), besides, when was the last time China fought in a serious war? This is what China once called for help from the USSR to suppress wars on its territory - this is a fact :)) remember Damansky Island :) the balance of forces - At the end of the 1960s, 4 forces were deployed on 380 km of the Soviet-Chinese border Soviet and 658 Chinese soldiers. And the Chinese, outnumbered in their mass, just fought about it :) so the reasoning that there are more of them is also childish babble ... one more thing - the border between China and Russia is not so big, how will they trample on us? through Mongolia and Kazakhstan? and the mentality of the Chinese is not the same - they are unlikely to dare to engage in direct war :) settling our lands with their little fellows? - Well, these are questions to the Kremlin, what kind of policy our "fathers" Dima and Vova will build. There are a lot of different things, but to say that the Chinese are not the same as before is also not entirely correct, the national mentality is a genetic component, it is not possible to remake it.

[postman]

Quote: Region65

however, their technology is hardly worth it, considering that everything is Chinese, but you still need to see how their fakes behave

I now deal closely with cranes and buses from there0 I would not say that g ** but.

Quote: Region65

once China fought in a serious war?

With Vietnam, and showed themselves poorly.

Quote: Region65

so the reasoning that there are more of them is also babble ...

Qty always goes into quality.
In order for us to simply destroy the number, there will not be enough weapons.
But China can calmly deliver strikes (nuclear0 in the European part of Russia - it does not need it (this part).
We = no, maybe this is tantamount to strikes on our territory, and striking central China will only solve the demographic question of China (how many 200 extra men are there)?

Quote: Region65

the border of China and Russia is not so big, how will they trample on us?

4209,3 kmSECOND LENGTH, after Russia-KAZAKHSTAN

Quote: Region65

and not the Chinese mentality - they are unlikely to dare to direct war :)

In 1966, during the reign of Mao Zedong, the slogan appeared on the walls of houses in Beijing: “The USSR is our enemy!
In 1969, the Chinese side began FIRST use weapons in clashes at the border, and then demanded that we withdraw troops from all areas that she considered controversial.

In 1979, Deng Xiaoping called for the creation of a global united front for the struggle against our country, which he would like to put in a position of an outcast. Deng Xiaoping would like to include in this united front The People's Republic of China, the United States of America, Japan, countries of Western Europe, and developing countries around the world.

No one in the PRC and the ruling party of the CCP disavowed Mao Zedong’s statements regarding claims for one and a half million square kilometers of Russian lands.

In the 1980s under Deng Xiaoping’s rule, the appeal was popular in China: “Let us return our mountains and rivers!”

Quote: Region65

To the Kremlin, what kind of policy our "fathers" Dima and Vova will build.

That's for sure:
transfer to China in 2005 of 174 square kilometers of territories near Khabarovsk
Part of the Bolshoi Ussuriysky island, where the important fortified area of ​​our army was previously located, and part of the Tarabarov island, where the trajectory of the take-off of combat aircraft of the 11th Russian Air Force and Air Defense Army, which is deployed in Khabarovsk, previously departed for China.

[postman]

/ ENDING/

From July 26 to August 4, 2012, a joint Russian-Chinese commission in the Republic of Altai of the Russian Federation inspected and demarcated the western part of the Russian-Chinese state border. Disagreements arose between the parties. The Chinese delegation insisted on shifting the border line deep into Russia, as a result of which the area of ​​possible exclusion of Russian territory could reach 17 hectares.
The length of the Russian-Chinese border in the region is only 55 tom. And because of this mountainous (altitude 2500 - 3000 meters) inaccessible territory, not equipped with checkpoints, on which - in any case, so far - essentially no economic activity is being conducted, and a dispute arose. And something tells us that Russia, in the end, will make concessions - just not to spoil relations with a powerful neighbor.

Quote: Region65

this is a genetic component

Well, how is this component?

[edge]

I’ve been living all my life in the Far East and I don’t see any Chinese threat here ...... can I look blind or wrong? ...... certainly blind, but hiding my head in the sand (what the Chinas do can be described as the destruction of the resource base, squeezing out the indigenous Russian population, ....... all this corresponds to the category of strategic impact on the adjacent territory)

[Region65]

I don’t know where you hide your head, but I personally am not from ostriches :) on Sakhalin these "yellow brothers" somehow did not take root, and if in Khabar and Vladik they are like cheese in butter, then these are not questions for me)) ))))

[Denzel13]

The theme is already fooled once ... eleven. Tired of repeating.
In short, parachuting must be preserved, as well as the equipment for this must be available. Since the presence of the above possibilities is a kind of deterrent for those wishing to carry out aggression on our territory. None of the "potential" is interested in getting in an unexpected place (where we do not have airfields and railways) the nth number of troops with equipment in this situation. And there the main forces can catch up. All this fits well into the defensive concept (we have such a concept?). For operations by landing method and "on foot" it would not be bad for the Airborne Forces to have a second set of heavy equipment.
This is of course a subjective opinion, but for some reason the former colleagues have basically similar thoughts. And judging by the actions of Shamanov the way it is.

[Dikremnij]

I agree with you, and my thoughts have also repeatedly shown. I would like to add to the article: in 2003, a battalion of 173 US airborne brigades was parachuted in Northern Iraq in order to capture an airfield in the province of Kirkuk. In 1967, during Operation Junction City, a 2 battalion of 503 infantry parachute infantry regiment was also parachuted (this is what they are called in the USA).

[Slevinst]

Popular rumor ascribes to Reagan the phrase: “I won’t be surprised if on the second day of the war I see guys in vests and blue berets on the threshold of the White House.” I don’t know if the US president said such words, but he will receive guaranteed thermonuclear ammunition half an hour after the outbreak of war
test text , half an hour earlier, a similar projectile will fly to us

[PROXOR]

Quote: Slevinst

Popular rumor ascribes to Reagan the phrase: “I won’t be surprised if on the second day of the war I see guys in vests and blue berets on the threshold of the White House.” I don’t know if the US president said such words, but he will receive guaranteed fusion of ammunition half an hour after the outbreak of war.
test text, a similar shell will fly to us half an hour earlier

With what pleasure I watched the title video for the game world in conflict. What is the view of a "crocodile" taking off from the deck of a dry cargo ship !!!! Ohhh, my soul senses, these nits will wait for such a scenario. And then soon 2 centuries as the Yankees did not see the war on their doorstep, they completely lost their fear.

[Tjumenec72]

You passed the game to the end))) there, as it were, "loot" won)))
Nooo nafig such a scenario - they have enough poplars and other rockfall)

[AK-74-1]

Actually an interesting article. I do not agree with the author in everything. The exit from the IL-76 with the whole company cannot be forgotten at once. And then in the rear of the enemy we need just "Nona", "Sprut" and BMD-4M with self-entrenching means. When will the enemy get the same DShK and RPG, and will he even have time to get it. In the meantime, the enemy gets it, you can dig in and take a couple of mouths of tanks. At least for the special forces units, they definitely need means to be dropped with a crew, since they allow them to create the necessary concentration in a separate area behind enemy lines. In addition, now there are communication and positioning means, which at the very initial stage will not be muffled or otherwise disabled, which can simplify the task of getting to the assembly point. Similarly, the issue is resolved and from time to time it is one thing to stomp with your feet, and quite another on tracks to the place of collection. Although the time for full-scale parachute landings is probably running out. But its applicability is a great thing.

[tlauicol]

The foreign Legion and the French paratroopers landed without resistance for two months. Strengthened by artillery, dug in, built fort for several months ... 100 percent losses as a result

[PROXOR]

There is a counter example. August 1941 Gudarean bypassing the last Soviet units, rushed to Tula. The city was not actually covered. The reserves approach needed time. The Soviet command decides to land directly on the airfield in Tula. As a result of the operation, about 6000 soldiers and half a hundred light tanks were delivered to Tula. The losses were also close to 100%, but they were able to hold out until the approach of the main forces!

[Santa Fe]

Quote: PROXOR

The Soviet command decides to land directly on the airfield in Tula. As a result of the operation near Tula, about 6000 soldiers and half a hundred light tanks were delivered.

There are lots of such examples.

The night from 29 to 30 on November 1994. The airport of Vladikavkaz is closed - the Pskov Airborne Division is landing

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Santa Fe

The night from 29 to 30 on November 1994. The airport of Vladikavkaz is closed - the Pskov Airborne Division is landing

You wanted to say LANDINGand not in the BARRIER way?

[tlauicol]

how many comments have already been written here where the Chinese (Germans, USA) seize our territory to Irkutsk (Moscow, St. Petersburg) and then we land their troops in the rear or along the front! Is this now taught in schools or what? That's so strategist!

[edge]

tlauikol where to you with a st .... snout and climb into the ranks.

[AK-74-1]

Only it was not quite Tula, but the Eagle. And the first echelon in 400 fighters (201 VDBr) was commanded by Colonel Starinov. The guys held against the 2 tank divisions of the 6 or 7 hours. To all exploits, the exploit remained alive no more than a platoon.

[Suvorov000]

Duc, the Vietnamese also dubbed the Americans in the future, but the French indisputably went nuts about the location)

[edge]

http://topwar.ru/user/AK-74-1/ трудно сказать ,у каждой войны свои подходы.........свои хитрости,свои решения

[borisst64]

He is obliged to recall that all the so-called interethnic conflicts of the 90s were resolved by the airborne forces by the method of arrival at the nearest airfield and the subsequent march to the place. We lived in the barracks (I spent the night in the locker’s house once a month, the house 200m from the barracks), after an alarm, they took off after 2 hours. In the park there was equipment loaded with everything necessary, a set for each soldier in weapons, a weapon, a sleeping bag, an armor, a helmet, tied to the taxiway. And I’ll say about the landing, if I’m not mistaken. The Bamut in Chechnya was cut off by the landing of a parachute landing.

[Denzel13]

100%, nothing to add.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: borisst64

And I’ll say about the landing, if I’m not mistaken. The Bamut in Chechnya was cut off by the landing of a parachute landing.

You are mistaken, the successful assault on Bamut is largely the result of reconnaissance of the army special forces under the command of Alexei Efentiev, who went around the village in the mountains and attacked him from the rear. Scouts were the first to enter Bamut.

[Durant]

with the cost of BMD-4M busting something ...

[AK-74-1]

What is the difference how much the state should print money for the manufacture of BMD-4M. If we are to be economical, then we need to calculate how much the BMD-4M is compared to imports, which are positioned as an analog far from being such. And this value should be measured not in paper-digital terms, but in manpower, materials, etc. I do not think that amers or fascists will be cheaper in material terms, but not in monetary terms.

[Durant]

I meant overkill in the article ... it's not worth three T-90s ... stupidity is written, but otherwise there are no analogues of this BMD-4M and there is nothing to look to the west when we have such a machine ... such a normal "Bayonet" winged infantry.

Yes, and about printing money ... it is the Americans who suffer from such garbage, if Russia launched a printing press it would be more expensive for itself ...

[Pimply]

Big one. Because money doesn't print just like that - Zimbabwe is a good example for you

[Alex104]

to transfer there the division of “Pskov thugs”

I didn’t know that they called us that))

[edge]

http://topwar.ru/user/Alex104/........гордись пущай бояться и уважают.

[ammunition]

Each soldier must be a patriot of a kind of troops!

Quote: dmitreach

but cherries are fighting, better than motorized rifle ... "(by PPSh)

This statement is heavenly doubtful .. After studying the Afghan, Chechen and Georgian companies.
--------------
And the topic in the article is important. MSD has a total salvo weight of approx. 15 times heavier than VDD. It has the best armor. His artillery, tanks, aircraft. It has the best tactics on the battlefield.

So military science has a place to "smash its head" over how best to prepare the Airborne Forces to carry out their / b] specific landing tasks.

[Denzel13]

Tasks are solved not only by a mass of volley and better armor. Say what you like in the Airborne Forces engaged in combat training much more intensely, hence the results. What is often used in atypical tasks is a fact, but what to do if necessary.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Denzel13

Say what you like in the Airborne Forces engaged in combat training much more intensely, hence the results.

No offense will be said, but the results of the work of the Airborne Forces, Special Forces, SOBR, motorized riflemen, riot police, marines and other "mabuts" are exactly the same

Quote: Denzel13

What is often used in atypical tasks is a fact, but what to do if necessary.

Like everyone else in the mess of the Chechen wars

[Denzel13]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

No offense will be said, but the results of the work of the Airborne Forces, Special Forces, SOBR, motorized riflemen, riot police, marines and other "mabuts" are exactly the same

In fact, it is difficult to talk about this from the point of view of a non-staff officer, since the overall picture is clear that you cannot see, but from your "bell tower" you got the feeling that "every barrel has a plug". Maybe you are right, although my subjective, which is not very much.

[Victor]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

No offense will be said, but the results of the work of the Airborne Forces, Special Forces, SOBR, motorized riflemen, riot police, marines and other "mabuts" are exactly the same

The Marines and Airborne Forces have almost the same basic training. SOBRA and OMON are 80% composed of former airborne fighters and marines, the special forces in itself are special forces and, as for motorized rifles, I’m ready to argue. If you really have access to REAL (and not newspaper-professional) information since the war in Afghanistan, you will have a completely different picture. Even based on a simple arithmetic ratio of military operations carried out by units of the Airborne Forces and motorized rifles. This difference is especially well understood by spirits.

[clinic1]

Both those and others should be engaged ... And also it is necessary that there would be a smart command and support. Remember General Rokhlin ... he commanded motorized rifles in Chechnya. And then in your opinion it turns out that if the MS has run out of ammunition, it will stop shooting, and the paratrooper will continue to fire ... as in a famous joke. It all depends on the correct (!) Tasks and its support !!! This is the most vowel !!!! It is not necessary to charge the MS with the strength of the Airborne Forces and the turnover. And they are fighting, equally good!

[folds]

There is one more important point .. The landing chauvinism is called. Education of fighters in the spirit laid down by Margelov. When you prepare a soldier for the fact that he will fight in isolation from the main forces, there will be no help, but there are no impossible tasks, because the Airborne Forces are the best part of the best army in the world, and then it fights accordingly. Example - 6 companies.

[Alex104]

most of the formations are now airborne assault, that is, with the goal of ground-based relocation to the center of conflict.

[castle]

Quote: Author of the article
Suppression of the uprising in Czechoslovakia (1968)

There was no uprising in Czechoslovakia in 1968! Here, both the people and the party and the government tried to peacefully modernize and adapt the political and economic life of the country to the current requirements of that time. No one was killed here as in Hungary in 1956, and the whole people supported Dubcek (commune). It was this peaceful attempt that was suppressed with the help of weapons. There has recently been an extensive debate on punishers at this respected forum. Clear business - punishers are Americans!

[Pablo]

the oakman removed the Communists from the Central Committee and led his people there, the USSR INTERVENTED WHEN LEARNED ABOUT MEETINGS AND NEGOTIATIONS OF THE MANAGEMENT OF CZECHOSLOVAKIA With the CIA and the British. PEACE ATTEMPT? AND ONE OF THE LEADERSHIP OF THE REBELLION TOLD IN LAUGHTER IN 2008 ON TV, AS IN PRAGUE, WATCHED THE MACHINES, AND IF WHO HAVE FINDED A RUBBER SOLE ON SHOES, KNOWED AS WORKERS OF THE CZECH SPECIAL SERVICES.
WHAT IS THE OCCUPATION THE RUSSIANS KNOW BETTER THAN EVERYONE IN THE WORLD - THAT THE Fascists (1st NATO) WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THE TERRITORY OF THE USSR, YOUR COUNTRY HAS ALMOST ALMOST EUROPE ARE STARTED. DID NOT RESPONSE TO THE ATTACKS OF THE CZECH GANGS, WHERE WHEN THE DIED SOVIET SOLDIERS, FROM THE WEAPONS OF PEACE CITIZENS, WHEN? THE SOVIET SOLDIERS FOR THE FIRST DAYS THE MANAGEMENT PROHIBITED TO RENDER ARMED RESISTANCE.
It is also known about the forced shelling of the National Museum building with Soviet tanks, since machine-gun fire was fired from the roof of the building .http: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0% B0% D1% 86% D0% B8% D1% 8F_%
C2%AB%D0%94%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B9%C2%BB#.D0.9F.D0.BE.D1.82.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B8_.
D1.81.D1.82.D0.BE.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.BD

[Victor]

In the previous branches, BMD-4M has already been written on the topic, but I feel it will have to be repeated.
Currently, there are two main types of divisions in the Airborne Forces.
First: Airborne Assault Division.
Second: Airborne Division.
The brightest representatives of the DShD are 76 Guards. DShD Pskov and 7th Guards. DShD Novorossiysk, which includes two Airborne Stum regiments, one Airborne Regiment, an Artillery Regiment, an Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment and special units of combat and logistics support. Airborne assault regiments are delivered to the landing site mainly by landing method. And it is these regiments that will most likely be armed with armored vehicles based on the Kurganets, but the Airborne Regiments will be armed with BMD-4M, because it is these regiments that are entrusted with the task of initially seizing the bridgehead and ensuring the reception of the main forces. That is why the BMD-4M is needed, which is light, can be dropped from the air together with the crew, and in terms of firepower is not inferior to the BMP-3. Those. can be guaranteed to complete the tasks of capturing and holding an object in the rear of the enemy before the main forces approach, i.e. airborne assault regiments and SMEs.
In modern combat operations, the time factor is crucial. Whoever first staked out the site is the king of the mountain. Setocentric wars dictate their conditions for the use of troops. That is why Shamanov is in such a hurry with rearmament namely the Airborne Regiments... The tasks for the Airborne Forces are a wagon and a small cart, and weapons of fire with a gulkin ****. On the BMD-1 there is a "Retribution" cannon "Thunder", which will not frighten anyone, and on the BMD-2 there is a 30 mm machine gun, which can only tickle Abrams' armor.
I don’t want to be a prophet, but in the near future, the Airborne Forces will most likely have to fight again and most likely not on their own land. I would like the opportunities to correspond to the tasks set.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Victor

Airborne regiments will be armed with BMD-4M, because it is precisely on these regiments that they are entrusted with the task of primary seizing of the bridgehead and ensuring reception of the main forces.

Over the 70 years of its existence, the Airborne Forces have never been used for massive parachute landings.
Or landing in a landing way, or point landing (almost always from helicopters)

[abc_alex]

Well, that's what they talked about, just reading you need to understand. :)
For a landing method, you must at least capture and hold the runway. It is desirable to do it faster, because in the conditions of modern warfare, the speed of the "defense mechanisms" is very high. Those same "pinpoint assault forces" are needed for this. And it is with the landing equipment. Helicopter landings are much more susceptible to attacks from the ground by air defense systems.
And most importantly, landing from helicopters will not give a fundamental difference in the quality of armored vehicles. Well, BMP-3 is fundamentally better protected than BMD-4? But it’s 5 tons heavier, which, if desired, can be fully put on extra. BMD reservation and systems such as Curtain and Arena.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: abc_alex

For a landing method, you must at least capture and hold the runway. It is desirable to do it faster, because in the conditions of modern warfare, the speed of operation of the "defense mechanisms" is very high.

For a country that has serious "defense mechanisms", landing at an airport is generally unacceptable. As well as paratroopers of the Airborne Forces. This requires tank and motorized wedges.

Quote: abc_alex

Those same "pinpoint landings" are needed for this. And it is with the landing equipment.

it will not be a point landing anymore


PS Nothing personal. Just an international experience of military conflicts over a half-century posture

[Victor]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

For a country that has serious "defense mechanisms", landing at an airport is generally unacceptable. As well as paratroopers of the Airborne Forces. This requires tank and motorized wedges.

I don’t want to offend you, but I feel that you are very far from both knowledge of the combat manuals and real combat operations (meaning tactics and strategy). It seems that your understanding of the war consists of television reports and popular literature about military literature.
At the time, 98 Guards. VDD (Soviet location of the city of Bolgrad, Odessa region) had the Bosphorus and Dardaneli straits as their area of ​​responsibility. According to the combat schedule, we had to seize this fortified area and hold it until the approach of the main forces of the Black Sea Fleet by parachuting the equipment and personnel. So, I dare to assure you that before the landing of the airborne forces and the passage of the VTA in their corridor for combat landing, a very serious blow should have been dealt to this fortified area by the forces of the missile forces and bombing aircraft to suppress air defense and DOS means. And only after that, the BTA, accompanied by fighters, went on a combat course for landing. All this we worked out more than once at KShU. You won’t take such areas otherwise.
As for the sites with the basmachi, the situations can be very different, but take a word to the paratrooper officer, in today's conditions there will be an assault clearance of the landing site before landing. There is another option when the landing is carried out at some distance from the object of attack and the paratroopers make a quick and hidden march and many many other situations that you do not even know about, but are taken to judge.
If motorized rifles could solve problems in the same way as the Airborne Forces, then we probably would not have been mentioned in the composition of the RF Armed Forces and we would not have been the reserve of the Supreme Commander.
Yes, by the way, the combat landing altitude adopted in our armed forces is 400 meters, unlike in Western countries, where it is really 1,5 km.

[Denzel13]

Victor is 100% right.

By the way, I remember at the Summer-90 exercises near Nikolaev the board from which we fell out was going at an altitude of 330 m with wind gusts up to 16-18 m / s. It was a "fun" landing, but nothing was hurt even seriously (at least as far as I know).

[Strategia]

Not in the manner of mutual curtsy I support Victor: there are no tasks - there are no forces (military branches, special forces) and means (weapons, ammunition, equipment). But in modern conditions there are problems for the Airborne Forces, and no one except them will solve these problems.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Victor

We are very far from knowledge of the combat manuals, as well as from real military operations

Real hostilities ... Well, what does your story have to do with real hostilities?

Quote: Victor

At one time, 98 Guards. VDD (Soviet location of the city of Bolgrad, Odessa region) had the Bosphorus and Dardaneli straits as their area of ​​responsibility. According to the combat schedule, we had to seize this fortified area and hold it until the approach of the main forces of the Black Sea Fleet by parachuting the equipment and personnel. So I dare to assure you that before the landing of the airborne forces and the passage of the VTA in their corridor for combat landing, a very serious blow should have been dealt to this fortified area by the forces of the missile forces and bomber aviation to suppress air defense and DOS means. And only after that, the BTA, accompanied by fighters, went on a combat course for landing.

What does this fantasy have to do with real fighting ??



What was meant by "a serious strike by missile forces and bomber aircraft"? Ordinary bombing by aircraft and OTR? So the Yankees poured millions of tons of explosives on Vietnam - and they could not suppress the air defense.
Megaton power nuclear strike? And what then do the landing in the melted radioactive desert?

Finally, "a" serious strike by missile forces and aircraft "on the country of the NATO bloc is already the third world strike, in which the fate of the landing is unclear, as is the fate of all mankind.

[S_nami_strength]

Real hostilities ... Well, what does your story have to do with real hostilities?

Quote: Victor
At one time, 98 Guards. VDD (Soviet location of the city of Bolgrad, Odessa region) had the Bosphorus and Dardaneli straits as their area of ​​responsibility. According to the combat schedule, we had to seize this fortified area and hold it until the approach of the main forces of the Black Sea Fleet by parachuting the equipment and personnel. So I dare to assure you that before the landing of the airborne forces and the passage of the VTA in their corridor for combat landing, a very serious blow should have been dealt to this fortified area by the forces of the missile forces and bomber aviation to suppress air defense and DOS means. And only after that, the BTA, accompanied by fighters, went on a combat course for landing.

This is reality ... 108 RAP Novorossiysk enemy of Turkey and there were plans and I think now there are ....

[Santa Fe]

Quote: S_name_sila

This is reality ... 108 RAP Novorossiysk enemy of Turkey and there were plans and I think now there are ....

These are plans, not reality.
Moreover, the plans are very doubtful about the quality and objectivity

[S_nami_strength]

This plan is as real as you))))

[edge]

http://topwar.ru/user/SWEET_SIXTEEN/.....ты наверно не читал учебников по тактике и не знаешь ,что такое боевое планирование и обеспечение боя........

[Victor]

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

Over the 70 years of its existence, the Airborne Forces have never been used for massive parachute landings.

Read the history of the Second World War.

[SIT]

Quote: Victor

but the airborne regiments will be armed with BMD-4M, because it is precisely on these regiments that the primary task of capturing the bridgehead and ensuring the reception of the main forces is entrusted. That is why the BMD-4M is needed, which is light, airborne with the crew, and is not inferior to the BMP-3 in terms of firepower.

For mass parachuting, parachute transport will have to go at an altitude of 1200-800m. Even if all of the air defense and enemy aviation were crushed enough 2 dozen basmachi with MANPADS to destroy the entire regiment. The Airborne Forces should be transplanted to helicopters and completely new airmobile structures should be formed consisting of the strike link of the fire support helicopters and the landing helicopters working with them in direct contact. More work needs to be done on attack helicopters, but as a landing MI 8 is beyond competition. While the enemy will come to his senses after the work of attack helicopters, the eights will have time to land troops to capture the bridgehead, and MI26 will bring to it heavier.

[abc_alex]

Somehow they flapped with tongues with guys developing domestic MANPADS. So, their words: "in a battle between a helicopter and a MANPADS operator, the one on the ground almost always wins." The helicopter landing is all the more doomed to the "Basmachi gang", since it is much lower and slower. And how are you going to "strike" the single MANPADS operators scattered along the path of the assault? Or do you think that for your convenience they will gather in one place and post a banner "WE ARE HERE"? :)

[tlauicol]

a helicopter at an altitude of 30m is harder to shoot down than an airplane at 1000m. 1pzrk and 200 corpses or 10 - is there a difference? That's just the helicopter just can hit the ground, and Antei with Ruslan only substitute sides

[abc_alex]

Yes? Really? But nothing that a helicopter at 30 m becomes vulnerable to barrel artillery? In addition, anti-helicopter mines capable of landing deceased from a height of up to 120 m have been developed against such bold ones :) You do not confuse the flight of assault aircraft at maximum speed with anti-ballistic maneuvers at extremely low altitude and the flight of a transport vehicle loaded with equipment.

[edge]

guys before yelling on the air read smart books called tactics and strategy ..........., otherwise the majority, the word curvimeter, plunges into deep thought.

[Victor]

Quote: Tlauicol

1pzrk and 200 corpses or 10 - is there a difference? That's just the helicopter just can hit the ground, and Antei with Ruslan only substitute sides

During combat landing on board the IL-76 is a parachute-landing platoon and three pieces of equipment, and not two hundred people. Ruslans do not perform landing, they only transport heavy equipment. Anteys are almost decommissioned. You know the topic very poorly.

[tlauicol]

Antei and took 700 people on board. Good 100 corpses or 10?

[Victor]

Quote: Tlauicol

Antei and took 700 people on board. Good 100 corpses or 10?

You are such a funny, honest word, you don’t even want to explain anything else. And still I will ask the last time. Do you understand the difference between training and combat landing? Have you ever taken a combat charter of the Airborne Forces? Especially its second part. And why are people taught in military academies when such commanders as you are in your native country.

Quote: Tlauicol

Antei and took 700 people on board. Good 100 corpses or 10?

Here again, you expose yourself in an unsightly form. In the parachute-landing platoon, there are three sections of seven people each + deputy commander of the platoon + platoon commander. Count. Or do you have arithmetic, as well as knowledge in military affairs?

[S_nami_strength]

Victor

In the parachute-landing platoon, there are three sections of seven people each + deputy commander of the platoon + platoon commander. Count.

22 человек7*3=21+1=22 deputy platoon commander of the first squad platoon ...

[Victor]

Quote: S_name_sila

22 people 7 * 3 = 21 + 1 = 22 deputy platoon commander of the first squad squad ...

I agree, old age is sneaking up.

[tlauicol]

Victor, counted - it turned out 115 people without armor. You can not answer if you do not want. I didn’t read the charter of the airborne forces dismissed from the Ministry of Internal Affairs as a senior sergeant

[Victor]

Quote: Tlauicol

Victor, counted - it turned out 115 people without armor. You can not answer if you do not want. I didn’t read the charter of the airborne forces dismissed from the Ministry of Internal Affairs as a senior sergeant

And how many platoons do you have in your company? In fact, there are only three of them and a management department. How did you get 115 people?

[S_nami_strength]

Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.

Sorry did not see your comment before

[tlauicol]

Victor - http://vadimvswar.narod.ru/ALL_OUT/TiVOut0809/IL76drop/IL76drop005.htm
maybe the charters were rewritten, but those tasks were like that for an airplane

[S_nami_strength]

A standard company of 3 platoons plus a control squad ... Well, during the fighting, they are reinforced by additional squads ... RBMs ... Mine action ... etc.

[Victor]

Quote: S_name_sila

A standard company of 3 platoons plus a control squad ... Well, during the fighting, they are reinforced by additional squads ... RBMs ... Mine action ... etc.

Everything is correct. In the combat order it is called that "reinforced "

[S_nami_strength]

Everything is correct. In the combat order it is called "reinforced"

Not everything is weathered from the head

[Mairos]

But the Basmachi will be directly informed that here they will fly an IL-500 with an amphibious assault at an altitude of 76 meters? Yes, the flight range is plowed in full, there if the Basmachis survive, then they will come to themselves for a long time in caches. Yes, and the turntables, walking above the ground, also specifically bristle with trunks and can crash on the ground - Mama Do not Cry. Not everything and not always can be solved with MANPADS, and it is not a panacea.

[Denzel13]

Learn to match, landing is made from IL-76. Victor is right in one side 1 platoon.
In addition, there are such units as reconnaissance companies of regiments and divisions in the airborne division. One of their tasks is to ensure the landing of the main forces. Reconnaissance is sent out in advance in a somewhat remote area (depending on the type of terrain and the operational-tactical situation), after which it goes to the area of ​​the proposed drop with the aim of, among other things, "cleaning" from unwanted elements.

[S_nami_strength]

Guys do not sport with those who do not understand exactly what ....

[Denzel13]

Well, yes, at a computer of Napoleons up to .... and more, but to graduate from the military school and serve - that’s all the best, it’s better to go to generalissimo, at worst to marshals and to the post of chief of the General Staff.

[S_nami_strength]

Yes, even to serve when the motherland called

[Artem Airborne]

better in ministers

[Tatarus]

Nothing personal but
NEVER ARGUMENT WITH DI *** OM, BECAUSE FOR THIS IT WILL HAVE TO GO TO ITS LEVEL ... AND THERE HE (D *** L) WILL ASK YOU WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE.

[Victor]

Quote: Tatarus

Nothing personal but
NEVER ARGUMENT WITH DI *** OM, BECAUSE FOR THIS IT WILL HAVE TO GO TO ITS LEVEL ... AND THERE HE (D *** L) WILL ASK YOU WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE.

You are certainly right, but the trouble is that such home-grown strategists are read by young people who have not served and accept their "academic attempts about the army" as a revelation, and this nonsense settles in their young brains as a constant. Our task, and acting officers and veterans, to the best of their ability and ability to fight against military illiteracy and populism.

[dmitreach]

task, and current officers and veterans, to the best of their ability and ability to fight against military illiteracy and populism.
Victor, wonderful point of view. thank. the role of the officer in this too. (youth educate by example)

[Mairos]

I agree. )) I try to participate in the process))

[Strategia]

It is not necessary to disclose the provisions of the combat charter and organizational structure to those who are far from this. They will not grow wiser, but there will be a leak. Who understands - that in a word will understand. I met with such: one tank only saw from the outside, but tried to compare samples according to external (so-called advertising) characteristics, the second - privates from Ukraine - the activities of Marshal of the Soviet Union G.K. Zhukova tried aboutcherappreciate. And both with such a high conceit: I, says, of books, maybe I read more than yours

[SIT]

Quote: abc_alex

Helicopter landing is all the more doomed to the "Basmachi gang", since it is much lower and slower. And how are you going to "strike" the single MANPADS operators scattered along the path of the assault? Or do you think that for your convenience they will gather in one place and post a banner "WE ARE HERE"? :)

Helicopters can really fly much lower. It’s so much lower that it will be much more difficult to aim than a huge transport carrier going at an altitude of 800m. How many people will die in the fall of MI8 and IL76? How will the airborne assault route for scattering single MANPADS be known? Do not forget the bunch with attack helicopters. But in front of them, along the landing path, a UAV flies for a couple of days and the coordinates of everything that turned out to be warm at night in the IR range of surrounding stones and bushes with trees will go as a list of targets for drummers. Well, if it turns out to be the lost sheep, then the woods are cut down by chips ...

[abc_alex]

Aiming at low-flying targets is a basic function of MANPADS. There may be difficulties with the fact that a low-flying target quickly crosses the horizon, but this only means that not 1, but 3 helicopters in the group will be shot down.

Reasoning about how much will die on an airplane and a helicopter makes no sense - during normal operation of ground means the helicopter landing will cut out 90 percent. Indeed, in this case, instead of 1 side, you will have to drag a group of at least 4 helicopters. And not somewhere, but in 1 place ...

And to accommodate operators in this case, you do not need to be 7 inches in the forehead. In addition to the radar, there are elementary rules for protecting objects from the possibility of landing. It is not so difficult to block the DIRECTION to a depth of several kilometers in the direction of a possible landing. And no IR scanner will be able to detect a cold car with a Dzhigit.

Yes, something will be detected by UAVs until they are knocked down. Something will be able to suppress the drum machines. But they will not suppress 100%, well, if half! From what they discover. Until they themselves land. We remember that the operation takes place deep in the territory of the enemy! And here it is important to get to the landing area as quickly as possible. After all, the nomenclature of means of destruction of a transport helicopter is much wider than that of an aircraft. At the time of the landing, he is completely defenseless.

[tlauicol]

You do not quite understand me. NO landings deep into the enemy! NO mass landing! A maximum of a couple of platoons to the pass from helicopters or to the rear for special operations by parachute or helicopter method! AND EVERYTHING! the rest is doomed to failure

[Strategia]

It seems to me that you need to agree on the conditions of any military conflicts in question. When there are irregular formations, then we can talk about "free hunters" with MANPADS. If there are sufficiently large-scale operations of regular troops, then it is unlikely that loners will operate outside the battle formations. Here is a different specificity. One thing is indisputable - everything must be justified and calculated: the choice of using airborne assault forces as a means of performing a combat mission, and a method of actions when flying to a place and landing, and a method of performing a mission on the ground with a detailed study of support for the landing force, comprehensive support of its actions at all stages of application, interaction with the main forces. Yes, and it is still necessary, apparently, to separate the actions of tactical (operational) assault forces in a combined arms battle and the special actions of reconnaissance and airborne formations.

[Mairos]

TLAUIKOL believes that every second spirit walks with MANPADS and knows how to use them - myiiif .. MANPADS of ALL spirits ALWAYS weigh gold in deficit ..

[tlauicol]

Myros, the debate is about the massive landing and the suppression of air defense - are you going to land a brigade for every second spirit, or are you still capturing airfields and straits? and spirits shoot well from DShK

[Mairos]

It's just that you made some kind of wood-waffle from MANPADS - you solve all problems with them at once and the turntables, they say, this is the only way for transport workers. Here, as they say, to paraphrase, "he will fill up, not who will allow him"

[abc_alex]

So here the Airborne Forces are not needed as a branch of service. If we are talking about reconnaissance and sabotage operations, then this is a completely different song.

But do you remember what the Red Army airborne units were sick with? Those, first of all, that did not have heavy weapons. Any "flying tanks" were made for them ...

[Denzel13]

Quote: abc_alex

reconnaissance and sabotage

"reconnaissance - sabotage" - so perhaps it would be more correct.

It should only be noted that the goals and objectives of intelligence and saboteurs are completely different. There is a rule: "the first shot of a reconnaissance group is its end." Subversive tasks accordingly imply the opposite.

[SIT]

Quote: abc_alex

Aiming at low-flying targets is a basic function of MANPADS. There may be difficulties with the fact that a low-flying target quickly crosses the horizon, but this only means that not 1, but 3 helicopters in the group will be shot down.

With IL76 flying at an altitude of 800-1000m at a speed of 260-400km / h, there will be no problems at all - hit anyone of your choice as in a dash.

Quote: abc_alex

Reasoning about how much will die on an airplane and a helicopter makes no sense - during normal operation of ground means the helicopter landing will cut out 90 percent. Indeed, in this case, instead of 1 side, you will have to drag a group of at least 4 helicopters.

So what is easier to fill up 1 side or 4? Of all the ground means, we took a couple dozen basmachi with MANPADS. What prevents the rest of the ground means from reconnaissance in advance and destroyed by attack aircraft and cruise missiles immediately before the passage of the helicopters?

Quote: abc_alex

And to accommodate operators in this case, you do not need to be 7 inches in the forehead. In addition to the radar, there are elementary rules for protecting objects from the possibility of landing. It is not so difficult to block the DIRECTION to a depth of several kilometers in the direction of a possible landing. And no IR scanner will be able to detect a cold car with a Dzhigit.

Helicopters can come from any direction, and a bunch of cars standing motionless in one place can be detected even from a satellite. Now the resolution of satellite images is 0,47m per pixel.

Quote: abc_alex

Yes, something will be detected by UAVs until they are knocked down. Something will be able to suppress the drum machines. But they will not suppress 100%, well, if half! From what they discover. Until they themselves land. We remember that the operation takes place deep in the territory of the enemy! And here it is important to get to the landing area as quickly as possible. After all, the nomenclature of means of destruction of a transport helicopter is much wider than that of an aircraft. At the time of landing, he is completely defenseless

If there is something to bring down an UAV, the suppression of enemy air defense is not completed. In this case, transport aircraft just do not have a chance. To dump an attack helicopter, you need to try very hard. Under the terms of NATO exercises, a tank located in a strike helicopter's weapons coverage area for 30 seconds is considered destroyed, and a helicopter is considered destroyed if it was within 40 seconds in a zone of destruction of air defense assets of a tank unit. And what is more protected at the moment of landing than a helicopter, from which a landing force spills out and scatters in seconds, unlike an airplane, which is forced to fly in a straight line for a dozen minutes at the time of deployment? I’m silent about paratroopers in the air. Any woman can learn that the width of the fly is 0,002 times the distance to the target, and the lead by the paratrooper is the distance to the target in hundreds of meters - 1 for AKM and -2 for PC. Fly to the ground after opening the dome for about a minute. For such a time, only the blind can not get into.

[Mairos]

Nu-nu .. take aim from the MANPADS at the turntable that runs at an altitude of 30-50 meters, when trunks stick out of it in all directions and it slips VERY quickly over you. You still try to shoot from RPG-7 from a distance of 5 meters on the armor, the result will also amaze you. )) Or from a room in the house, especially if the wall behind is not far from the second floor in the MTO of the tank from above ...
I sympathize .. did you even have MANPADS in your hands? Do you know the order of firing from it? Is RPG real ... not from konstrukry?

[tlauicol]

so it’s about that it’s enough mi35, and not il76. and RPG grenade from five meters will not work

[Mairos]

Pralno, it won’t work, and I’m talking about the same thing. )) Only the MI-35 is for tactical landing, and the IL-76 is for dropping more people and cargo over long distances

[tlauicol]

and so we argue for the small landing and against the large and vice versa))

[edge]

tlauikol in general, a grenade cocked at a distance of 25 meters from the edge of the trunk, and before that just a blank.

[Dikremnij]

In the divisions of the airborne forces 4 regiment: 2 PDP (DShP), AP, ZRP.

[Sirozha]

Great article, competent logical chain!

[valokordin]

The article is competent, I almost agree with the author, the method of landing depends on the conditions, where there is such an opportunity, landing is carried out in a compact way, with great forces. And in a parachute way, sabotage units are thrown and that's it.

[Alex104]

Victor - The brightest representatives of the DShD are 76 guards. DSS of Pskov and 7th Guards. DSS Novorossiysk, which includes two Airborne-regiment regiments, one Airborne Regiment, Artillery Regiment, Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment and special combat and rear support units.

As part of the air assault units there is no MAP. there are only 2 airborne infantry battalions there is one battalion (PDB).

[Victor]

Quote: Alex104

As part of the air assault units there is no MAP. there are only 2 airborne infantry battalions there is one battalion (PDB).

RAP is not part of a lightweight DW

[Strategia]

Regarding the disputes about the "necessity" of the Airborne Forces: twenty years ago, my little son asked: "Dad, what is better - a trolleybus or an airplane?" At the forefront, in my opinion, should be the tasks that need to be addressed by the airborne forces. These tasks, in turn, follow from views on the nature of future military conflicts. Then methods and means for solving these problems, equipment and content of training of military personnel and troops are determined. It should be noted that the range of tasks for the Airborne Forces is extremely wide, it depends on the scale of the military conflict, the types of weapons used, and physical and geographical conditions. In 1994, the tanks went to Grozny - the result is known. Well now, the tanks are not the same, or the tank units need to be equipped with different equipment. No, apparently, you need to apply it correctly. When deployed correctly, success was assured. If you have not created the conditions for the use of formations of a type or type of troops, do not apply. It is clear that if the air defense is not suppressed, then the landing force will not complete the task. Similarly, as, for example, and strike aircraft. The anti-tank defense system is not suppressed - there is nothing to let tanks in, and so on. You should not land troops at the location of enemy troops either. Once at the Academy of Armored Forces we were taught (and not bad!) How to plan and ensure the use of airborne assault forces. With the appropriate calculations and the choice of the landing site. As for parachute training, it must be mandatory for reasons (even without taking into account the use of the drop as a means of landing): 1) as a backup method, for example, in an emergency; 2) as a means of instilling high moral and fighting qualities. Apparently, it is primarily because of the high combat qualities of the Airborne Forces that they are used in all "hot spots" - selection, staffing and training make themselves felt.
As for weapons, this is again from tasks and how to accomplish them: the example given with the US Marine Corps Command is a vivid example of this. It is necessary to clearly define the tasks of the Airborne Forces and the conditions for their implementation, then the airborne forces will choose weapons and equipment for themselves or develop a TTZ for their production.
I would also like to express respect for the military personnel of this type of troops and recall that the actions of an airborne assault should always be ensured by the actions of other military branches: when landing an assault, it must be remembered that it has limited time capabilities for conducting military operations behind enemy lines. Therefore, fire support for the landing assault, its comprehensive combat and logistical support, and, most importantly, combat operations for the timely connection of the main forces with landings must be planned and implemented. First of all, advanced detachments of tank units and units!

[Victor]

Strategia Thanks for your post. Very competent and military for sure. Unlike amateurs.

[Artem Airborne]

war and time will put everything in its place ...

[S_nami_strength]

war and time will put everything in its place ...

Better second than first .....

[Tatarus]

Yes, only the second one often turns on after the first one.

[Artem Airborne]

S_nami_strength,
Yes sir

[IRBIS]

Guderian, Goth, Manstein - they would all gladly read comments about "tank" wedges and armored armadas. Failed amphibious operations primarily speak of the stupidity and narrow-mindedness of individual military leaders. Let's deprive the paratroopers of "flying" equipment, the marines - of the floating one. And what the hell is she to them? Vaughn, amers, tanks with negative buoyancy are used. BUT .... There are tasks that can only be performed by a parachute assault, an amphibious assault. And there is no need for songs about air defense, it is usually suppressed in such cases. The missions to ensure the landing are also in the Combat Manuals, but the author did not finish reading them, I was tired of seeing ...
And let professionals judge the necessity of arming the troops. We have had people in power for ten years, who didn’t need anything at all, now we’ll restore twenty years.

[Strategia]

By the way, the most terrible, causing panic in the initial period of the Great Patriotic War was the information about the breakthrough of German tanks and the German troops landed in the rear. Another question is who reacted how to this, but the effect of the concerted use of heterogeneous groups was very high. Until now, the theory and practice of German breakthroughs and "pincers" is used in the concepts of Western armies such as "air-ground offensive operation (battle)" and is applied in practice. At the heart of everything is interaction, mutual support. But it is better to refuse expressively colored words like "stupidity". They do not add any credibility to your arguments.

[Simple]

No comments:

[Strategia]

Vladivostok, Navy Day !!!

[Snow]

ha) looks aggressive, but it would be interesting to know the story of the origin of the trick =)

[8 company]

Why boast of the landing operation in Prague, if no one showed armed resistance? As far as I remember, all major landing operations with mass ejection of salvos in combat conditions were largely unsuccessful. And ours, and amers, and Germans. Just dropping out small groups makes sense.
By the way, I was in Prague recently - a very beautiful old city. Friendly people, do not remember evil.

[Strategia]

That's the whole point - did not have time to organize! This is what you should brag about!

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Strategia

That's the whole point - did not have time to organize! This is what you should brag about!

QUESTION: You also told how they gave the commander in chief a tomato.
GORELOV: He was driving through Prague and said to me: "I thought I would go over corpses here, but everyone is walking ..."
I say: "You close your cloak with a cape on your uniform ..."
And at this time, a tomato once to him here, in the chest ...
I say: "You see, the fighting is going on!"

(From an interview with Lev Gorelov, a direct participant in those events)


What resistance - people simply did not have weapons. And there was nowhere to come from - in Yugoslavia, a ban on civilian weapons was introduced many years before these events. Tales about "secret warehouses with rifles prepared by the CIA" do not stand up to criticism

[Strategia]

Armed forces were? Police, other power structures were? And those who threw tomatoes could also arm. Because they had time, therefore they threw only tomatoes ... But there were also Molotov cocktails. And what about Yugoslavia?

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Strategia

Armed forces were? Police, other power structures were?

Dubcek gave the order: "Do not shoot." and did not think to fight with his partners in the Warsaw bloc

Quote: Strategia

But there were Molotov cocktails.

QUESTION: And then the tanks started to burn?
GORELOV: And this is when they walked, they were bombarded with bottles of combustible mixture. Someone from youth and boys, they have already come to their senses. Although in the center we controlled everything, it was somewhere, in some area they were abandoned.

Quote: Strategia

And what about Yugoslavia?

Pup. Refers to Czechoslovakia

[Strategia]

Let us nevertheless return to the source of the discussion: the landing operation was carried out, it was carried out successfully - goals were achieved, losses were minimal, experience was gained. And all other arguments are nothing more than speculation. We must not forget that the information (in particular about the availability of weapons, the behavior of the population and the army) that we have now is a fait accompli. At that time, the scenarios could be different. Therefore, having experience in 1956 in Hungary, the leadership took all measures to protect themselves from various kinds of surprises. Yes, you yourself in your post confirm this:

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

Some of the youth and boys, they have already come to their senses

,

Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

in the center we controlled everything

And if earlier you came to your senses? And if you couldn’t take control or have suffered losses? Etc...

[urich]

Returning to the article. In Czechoslovakia at 68 there was a night parachute drop and there were losses. There were cases when they landed on roofs, the domes went out, and then the soldiers fell from the roofs, broke, fought and got injured. There are trapped in power lines. I was personally told by the person who participated in this.
So, regarding the night parachute landing on the city, the author’s thesis about the inappropriateness of the event takes place.

[brr1]

8th company This is luck to prevent the organization of resistance.

By the way, landing by landing method during the introduction of troops into Afghanistan is considered one of the most successful operations with the use of airborne forces in the world. one and a half divisions practically without losses

[8 company]

Quote: brr1

landing by landing method when troops are sent to Afghanistan is considered one of the most successful operations with the use of airborne forces in the world. one and a half divisions practically without losses

You see, the specificity of Afghanistan is that the government army there has never been distinguished by high combat efficiency, and this I have put it mildly. If they could not hold Amin’s palace in a virtually impregnable position, then what about other places? In December 1979, problems with the introduction of troops did not arise almost anywhere. They began later when the bearded peasants in turbaned suits entered the battle.

[Strategia]

And that’s the skill of using landings in order to take into account the specifics of the conditions. So, someone’s head was thinking, and the conditions, I think, were not created by themselves.

[Normal]

In my opinion, parachute landing is primarily:

Quote: Strategia

a means of educating high moral and combat qualities.

The presence of a parachute landing technique and the possibility of its landing in mass numbers is, first of all, a means of psychological influence on a possible enemy.
As the professionals say, one IL-76 airborne one platoon with equipment, three ILarotu without a command department. In a battalion there are 3 combat companies + a command company (correct, if you did not correctly name this unit, he served for a long time) How many "boards" are needed to parachute at least a battalion? I think that it is simply not serious to talk about airborne troops with equipment less than a battalion. 12-14 "boards" !!! And the regiment together with the "specialists"?
And now the main question; Do we have so much in service?
And here we are arguing about the charters, concepts of application and the need or not the need for BMD-4M ....

[Denzel13]

Yes, there is a problem with the VTA, and in 1990 a whole 98 VDD was dumped with equipment during exercises near Nikolayev.

[Normal]

Quote: Denzel13

in 1990 a whole 98 VDD was dumped with equipment at exercises near Nikolayev.

What, with all the equipment? In 1985 in Kirovabad, regiment exercises involved either 13 or 14 Ilov from Pskov. Only a few units were thrown out of technology (2-3, I don’t know for sure, we weren’t informed) on PRSs and a bit more on ISS. On the sides with the equipment were only fur-water and gunners. The rest of the hp landed without equipment and on the sidelines.
In the usual training period, they jumped mainly from "their" An-2 and An-12. 2-3 jumps during the period were done from the Pskov Il-76. But all this, of course, without equipment

[Denzel13]

Almost from all over. When the main forces were throwing all the sky was in planes and domes. While the people were running to the collection points, they mostly looked into the sky so that some thing like BMD or "Nona" would not land on their heads. And when something from the PRS landed, they developed such speed - sprinters have a rest.

[Normal]

Quote: Denzel13

With almost everything.

Here are some lucky .... No seriously, I envy white envy

[smprofi]

hmm ... I lived in Tököl for 5 years and only here I learned about were delivered to the Hungarian airfields Tekel and Veszprem, and immediately captured strategically important objects. Now, having captured the air gates, it was easy to get help and reinforcements and to develop the offensive deep into the territory of the enemy.
but nothing that in Tököl the Soviet garrison stood since the end of World War II? and was the airfield Soviet? Incidentally, the former German airfield.

The usual night shift turns into a nightmare: on the radar screens an armada of aircraft is approaching. Who are they? - beautifully written. only this "armada" began to advance when Ruzine already was captured.

in general ... as always, the author has heard something ... somewhere, but he put it all too "creatively". like a "good fisherman" ....

[dld35057]

Sorry guys - I couldn’t read the article to the end. From the first lines, one obforshmachivaet. If this goes on, you won’t have an airborne force.

[old rocket man]

I’m not a paratrooper, but a career officer and in the military art I understand something. Regarding the disputes about the need for the Airborne Forces, I WILL SURE AND SURE THAT THEY ARE SURE.

As for the "screams" about air defense losses, I will answer as follows:
1 No country is able to organize 100% cover of its territory with air defense systems, and simply with the forces of troops, in order to do this you need to know the time and place of the landing (and who will tell you this)
2. It may be somewhat cynical, but this is the bitter truth, there is no war without loss.
3. Surprise, these are not beautiful dreams of generals, but a necessary condition for successfulawn of any operation, and not just airborne.
4.VDV PREVISEDto conduct the battle in isolation from their forces with the material and technical superiority of the enemy, which initially implies their high (in some cases 100%) losses

There are suicidal tasks, which, nevertheless, someone must perform., By the way, the assault on Amin’s palace was one of such tasks, but thanks to the suddenness and the presence ofThe trained unit proved successful.

[tracer]

As a former paratrooper, I agree in many respects with the author. He would not be suspected of Airborne bravura and "striping" ... Back in 1989, for me personally, as an ordinary sergeant of the Airborne Forces (and even for our commanders), it has long been clear that the IL 76 in a massive landing on enemy territory is 100% a new coffin for everyone present in it. The idea of ​​mass landings of the 20s was given to Istria .. As well as the otaka cavalry "lava." the dowries "took us where it was" dangerous. " Except ... What is the force of the landing ...? 22 years after the service, I'll tell you. In the psychological and physical training of fighters. Until now, at night I return to my brigade and serve in it again. ”I still have scars on my legs and shoulders after 20 years. It was hard .... It was very hard both physically and mentally. But .... never in my life as in the army, I did not pull up 50 times and never ran 5 kilometers ahead of a platoon on Sunday (a sports holiday) .. There is something to remember .. Who was wrong (may the Murmansk Marine Corps forgive me) from us guys wrote off to you .. Druzhban Vanka from Vorkuta was written off there in 1990 .. I think who knows .. you remember. I want to say this. Parachutes have nothing to do with it (this is just an outdated landing method). The main thing is the draft selection of fighters, physical and psychological training. For a year, a fighter is not educated .. Not only does not train, but also does not grow up. It is necessary to return to the 2-year call .. This cannot be avoided, this is human physiology. The commanders are not a "teacher in the classroom" and they can go into battle with you tomorrow. And who will they go now? With 5 months or 8? (as the most prepared)?. It looks like a "pregnancy" ... and organization ... The collected forces in a "fist" will do a lot. Our motto "NO ONE BEYOND US" has not been canceled yet.
As I remember now .. "Mountains ... around ... we are yawning, the sun is about to rise .. The brigade commander stands with the team of our 3rd battalion .. So they say and so ... soldiers .... the operation will be dangerous. Whoever refuses or "by family" will not go, the Idea will remain in the "temporary location." .... Who agrees ..step forward,. ALL BATALYON TAKE a step forward. Until the last person. Such here we were ... Aging already soldiers of our country. All who were fortunate enough to serve in the Airborne Forces always remember this time as the best and most honest years in their life. The time when we were ready to give our young lives without thinking, for our parents and classmates, for our courts in which they grew up, for our great HOMELAND. The idea and combat experience of the Airborne Forces must be improved. And "Flying cardboard tanks" Anywhere there are BMD 4 "have long outlived their usefulness. We need a new strategy for the development of the Airborne Forces. Let's see what happens ...

[tlauicol]

good comment!

[atalef]

Quote: tracer

IL 76 in the mass landing on the enemy territory is 100% coffin for everyone present in it. The idea of ​​mass landings of 20 of the given years has gone into Istria.

This concept was suitable for the Second World War and for tank attacks (with the capture of the rear and bridgeheads of the airborne forces), Cold War times. Now the conflicts are mostly local, tank breakthroughs are not expected, so the helicopter landing is something that meets the needs of the Army and the apparently updated military doctrine

Quote: tracer

The main thing is the draft selection of fighters, physical and psychological training. For a year, a fighter can’t be educated .. Not only do not train but also not grow up.

Not just (+). And 100 times (+), I would say 2 is not enough. A year is the only way to learn how to walk on the parade ground, sew a demobilization form and cook up an album.
Funny - 1year, who can I bring up?

Quote: tracer

And the landing has always been distinguished by its mobility and organization ... The assembled forces in a "fist" will do a lot. Our motto "NO ONE BEYOND US" has not been canceled yet.

And the principle of military cohesion, but for this year is also not enough

Quote: tracer

We need a new development strategy for the Airborne Forces. Let's see what happens ...

Great comment, short and clear --- (+)

[Strategia]

Who told you that there would be no tank attacks? Have you yourself predicted this character of the future war? Yes, of course, if your brothers in NATO (you have such a flag) with the sanction of the UN Security Council isolate and then, with the complete superiority of the coalition forces, hammer a "rogue" country such as Iraq or Libya - that's one thing. However, Russia is not a vulture, and first of all, we are going to fight for our country with any aggressor who has a territory REACHABLE for our means, with full exertion of all forces, to a victorious end. Here there can be tank wedges, and airborne assault forces not only on a tactical scale. And the theory of the use of large airborne assault forces must be developed before the corresponding capabilities of military aviation and air defense suppression systems appear.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Sirozha

With IL76 flying at an altitude of 800-1000m at a speed of 260-400km / h, there will be no problems at all - hit anyone of your choice as in a dash.

I said the same thing about helicopters, if you do not understand. Only there is a difference: helicopters will be shot down not only by MANPADS, but also by all the artillery from 12 mm machine guns. This is in addition to anti-helicopter mines.

Quote: SIT

So what is easier to fill up 1 side or 4? Of all the ground means, we took a couple dozen basmachi with MANPADS. What prevents the rest of the ground means from reconnaissance in advance and destroyed by attack aircraft and cruise missiles immediately before the passage of the helicopters?

In this case, it is equivalent. After all, as I have already noticed, the arsenal of means of destruction of helicopter landing is much wider.
And mind you, I accepted the suppressed air defense as fact. And I'm only talking about the means that can be organized to cover the airfield urgently, in an hour or two. These are object air defense of the Shilka type, MANPADS on wheels of the "Dzhigita" type, single operators of MANPADS or mobile artillery systems of the "Shaitan-arba" class. That which is difficult to detect and difficult to suppress.

Quote: Sirozha

Helicopters can come from any direction, and a bunch of cars standing motionless in one place can be detected even from a satellite. Now the resolution of satellite images is 0,47m per pixel.

How with any? What do you think they will draw hooks over foreign territory? Or do you think to start suppressing the entire air defense of the country?

And satellites do not hang over one place, they usually rotate in geosynchronous orbit. Therefore, real time from the satellite is possible only in Hollywood films. :)

Quote: SIT

If there is something to bring down an UAV, the suppression of enemy air defense is not completed. In this case, transport aircraft just do not have a chance. To dump an attack helicopter, you need to try very hard. Under the terms of NATO exercises, a tank located in a strike helicopter's weapons coverage area for 30 seconds is considered destroyed, and a helicopter is considered destroyed if it was within 40 seconds in a zone of destruction of air defense assets of a tank unit.

We are talking about the dumping of a TRANSPORT helicopter going at low altitude with a heavily loaded belly, that is, limited in maneuver. The drummers will be the last to fall.

Are there standards for the destruction of a BTA airplane flying over a tank unit? :)
I explain my idea: for a helicopter landing, everything will be as dangerous as for an aircraft, plus a lot of weapons from tank guns and riflemen. You understand, in order to conduct an airplane from the border to the landing zone, you need to suppress the radar covering the route, land fighter jets, and further, due to the high speed of the BTA aircraft, you can conduct your landing to the landing area.
But for a helicopter caravan, you will have to clean out, knock out everything that shoots with a caliber of more than 12 mm from the ground. Do you understand that even one "revived" Shilka will be enough for a caravan for the eyes? You will destroy it, of course, but AFTER it lands 3-4 transports. And how many of these "surprises" will you get along the way?

Your landing option is only possible in one case. Like in Serbia. That is, at first 3 months of bombing, and then ... And then where and why should anyone even land?

[Uncle Serozha]

For the most part I agree with the article. As for combat training, if paratroopers have better training than motorized rifles, this does not mean that we need more paratroopers. That means we need better cook riflemen. I had to serve with one ensign, who dragged an urgent motorized rifle in the early 50s in the Group of Occupation Forces in Germany (then it was called that, the term GSVG appeared later). So this ensign was under fifty, but he "did" any lieutenant for physical training. And when he told how they were cooked, our hair stood on end. They continuously did three things throughout the service: they shot, ran and dug in. They dug in, ran and shot. And staying on the march for rest ... they began to dig in! It doesn't matter that you leave here in 15 minutes. It is important that after 5 they can hit us. Each (every!) Soldier in a platoon by the second year had to be able to shoot in addition to AK from machine guns (hand and company) and a grenade launcher. If a fighter mastered a radio station and passed the minimum on it, then more often he went to leave and less often to an outfit. Topography was considered important. They did not pay attention to hand-to-hand combat (bayonet) at all - this is not necessary. They were just commanded by those who went through the war and they knew how much.
I also agree with the opinion that the paratroopers are always ready and "packed" for departure, even if the landing is carried out by landing method. But again, it is possible to have airmobile divisions that also "sit on suitcases" and have heavier weapons than the Airborne Forces. But parachute training is not provided for them.
Moreover, the "classic" airborne forces also have their place in the overall picture.

[Strategia]

About 40 years ago, a military instructor told us about digging in a school — a participant in the war said that at a halt some people were too lazy to open a trench for shooting while lying down, but the commanders did not have time to control it. There was a raid of German aviation. Those who did not dig after him did not get up. At the next halt there were no diggers ...

[washi]

In the Airborne Forces from the very beginning, Airborne Forces - the best and rightly so. Self-confidence is the basis of victory. At the moment, the Airborne Forces are simply quick reaction forces. Without air supremacy, they are not needed. This is currently not possible. Another thing is the brigade of the Special Forces of the GRU GSH, which, not only have they reduced, are also transferred to the districts.
ps1 MP in all competitions of the Airborne Forces beat.
ps2 For all specials. troops dual subordination: on everyday issues, support and interaction - local commanders, BP - central administration

[asf32wesdg]

It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://g2u.ca/s0ttp8i database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
Information can be deleted from the site.
I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...

[asf32wesdg]

It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://sho.rtlink.de/FS62Am database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
Information can be deleted from the site.
I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...

[Black]

Quote: hrad

There was no uprising in Czechoslovakia in 1968!

Yeah! Czechoslovak pioneers with chants went!
If you are a Czech, well, or a Slovak, what do you think, cooperation with Germany will do for nothing? !!!! It was necessary to atone for cohabitation. This is your fate, someone "is pleased to do". Now you are in NATO, (in '68 you drove those pioneers for that), once again you will wipe yourself off.

[Uncle Serozha]

Comrades, why did you delete Hrad's comments? Are we a democratic country, or where? Or was he using obscene language?

Seriously, here we sometimes hear statements that are so aggressive and chauvinistic that I can understand the feelings of foreigners who read this - it’s scary to myself sometimes.
Pity the feelings of believers!

[postman]

Quote: Author

You forgot the deployment map. she will explain a lot

[postman]

Quote: Author

In May 1941, 16 thousand German paratroopers, showing exceptional heroism, were able to capture the island of Crete (Operation Mercury),

where more than 8000 people landed. The Germans won the victory at a high price: 3800 killed, besides 3400 wounded. Of the 520 Yu-52s, 185 remained in service.

Quote: Author

but suffered such heavy losses that the Wehrmacht Air Force was forever dropped from the game.

By no means select Fliegerkorps XI infantry "green devils" - their allies "respected" them very much

Quote: Author

And the German command had to part with plans to capture the Suez Canal with the help of paratroopers.

Which (plans) tried to embody the Parachute Regiment in 1956 - Operation Musketeer

Paras captured the SU-100, captain Mullins (hands on hips)

[marder]

An interesting article, but there are some additions about successful landing operations:

1978 year. 2e REP of the French Foreign Legion. Operation Leopard

On May 11, 1978, a group of rebels from the Congo National Liberation Front (Tigers FNLC) arrived from Angola in Zaire (the name of the Democratic Republic of the Congo from October 1971 to May 1997) with the aim of destabilizing the country and overthrowing the regime of President Mobutu. On May 13, the city of Kolwezi was captured, about three thousand people, mostly white, were taken hostage.

Mobutu appealed to the presidents of France, Belgium and the United States for help. On May 17, the French president decided to send units of the 2nd Parachute Regiment of the French Foreign Legion to the region. The Belgian leadership also sent a para-commando regiment to the conflict zone.

At 23:15 on May 18, the first planes with French paratroopers on board headed for Kinshasa. On the morning of the 19th, upon arrival in Kinshasa, the first wave of the landing force boarded transport planes and flew to Kolwezi. The landing was carried out from a height of 450 meters, the first to jump was the commander of the regiment, Colonel Philip Erulen, by 15:30 the landing was completed. Then the companies regrouped in accordance with the intended goals and began to oust the rebels from the city and release the hostages. By evening, the entire "old" part of the city was already under the control of legionnaires. On the morning of the 20th, a second wave of assault forces landed and the sweep was resumed. Then the Belgians entered the city, began to collect the European civilians and take them to the airport.

As a result, 250 rebels were destroyed and 160 captured. The 2nd Parachute Regiment of the French Foreign Legion lost 5 people dead and another 15 were injured. The operation, called "Leopard", has become a model of effective airborne operations.

1965-1979 years. Rhodesian Light Infantry.

For four years of being in the status of an airborne unit, the battalion has recorded 5,190 airborne assault landings - a gigantic figure for such a small unit. In addition, the RLP holds an unofficial world record: three combat landings in one day, each of which ended in a clash with the enemy. Another remarkable achievement: combat landing from a height of less than 100 meters in full gear (with machine guns and mortars).

[Dikremnij]

For me, as a person who has made parachute jumps more than once, the story of parachuting in full outfit from a height of less than 100 m, and as I believe it on the ground, not on the water, and most likely with a standard army parachute, it smells frank * welcome. I am familiar with the guys who jumped from D1-5U from 150 m and heard about diving from a height of 50 m, but this jump was carried out with a special design parachute, close to the parachutes of pilots by parachute masters and KMSs.

[Volozhanin]

The distinguished author forgot to mention a relatively recent, post-war, classic parachute landing, namely Operation Red Dragon, Stanleyville, Belgian Congo, 1964. The Belgian PARA, many of whom only served six months, landed directly at the airfield and after a short battle cleared the runway. This was followed by a raid into the city to free the white hostages from the cannibals. The first wave of paratroopers had only light small arms, and after the takeoff was captured, Hercules with "heavy equipment" (jeeps and motorcycles) began to land. However, given that their opponents were monkeys, who had climbed down from the trees only a week before ... , but there the Cubans constituted the backbone of the defense, and there was some air defense. However, all the talk about 6 thousand dead Americans is just nonsense, nonsense and nonsense. Such losses were simply impossible to hide, especially with them.

[Strategia]

That's for sure, you can’t hide them.

[Dikremnij]

Yes, the parachute landing at the Grenada airfield consisted of 2 and 1 ranger battalions, but they were covered by helicopters and Ganshipy, while the air defense of the airfield and the airfield defense were just ridiculous: several Zushkas and an infantry company with 3 BTR-60.
Plus, you forgot to add to the Rangers (1st and 2nd battalions of the 75th Ranger Regiment) the Delta detachment, the 4th Navy Seal team, the Marine Expeditionary Detachment (reinforced battalion), the Brigade Tactical Group (brigade) and battalion 505 and 508 parachute infantry regiments of the US 82nd Airborne Division plus the Navy (most of the US 2 Fleet), plus the Air Force, plus support units, plus parts of Jamaica and Barbados.
As for the suppression of air defense (12 ZU-23-2), then 7 downed helicopters speak for themselves. And the garrison of 1500 people plus 700 Cuban builders versus 4300 people of the American army reinforced with armored vehicles and supported by the fleet and aircraft ... I would be ashamed to declare such a victory

[Andrey Golubev]

The examples given on the unsuccessful use of the Airborne Forces are not entirely correct. Firstly, there was no failed landing, there were landing operations that did not achieve all their goals - this is not verbiage, but a significant difference in assessment. Secondly, the assessment of any military action must be comprehensive and begin with an assessment of the reasons that led to some kind of, even unsatisfactory result. It is difficult to argue with the approach proposed by the author in the assessment with the examples given, but from the same technical point one can evaluate the assault on the Seelow Heights - as a failed operation to capture Berlin, or the assault on Sapun Mountain - also huge losses, etc. - examples there are a lot of such in the actions of the ground forces.
But besides, as it were, "unsuccessful" during the Second World War and later, there were examples of quite successful ones both in 1941 near Odessa and later. and Chinese cities were liberated using landings (yes, the main part of the troops was by landing, but this is also a landing operation. And landing by parachute, landing or combined, is a method of delivering troops to the battlefield).
Nevertheless, it was precisely the peculiarity of the use of the Airborne Forces and their purpose that demanded from the troops special selection, training, specific equipment, features in the tactics of actions and the ability to act independently ... this is what makes the Airborne Forces - the Airborne Forces, and not specific motorized infantry. I'm not afraid to insist, but it was the "landing spirit", that is, the appropriate education of the soldiers of the Airborne Forces in their readiness for operations behind enemy lines in isolation from the main forces, that allowed the Airborne Forces units to successfully carry out their tasks.
As for the "unsuccessful" landings, the reason is unsatisfactory preparation. A feature of the use of the Airborne Forces for its intended purpose is the need for a thorough, comprehensive, phased preparation of the landing force for use, starting with support, ending with the coordination of actions with the VTA and reliable suppression of enemy air defense. The fact that the 4th Airborne Forces did not achieve all its goals = it was the command that made the decision to use it, but did not create the conditions for this, simply not providing the landing even with the necessary number of aircraft. Those. the decision was made on the "knee". What can I say when the commander of the landing corps received a combat mission an hour before the start of the landing. He himself had no time to make a decision to fight, but he had to give combat orders to the battalions. The battalion commanders also had to make decisions and give orders .... but there was no time for that, - FORWARD, - THERE .... Interaction with BTA was not organized. The pilots abandoned the landing at random on the German trenches, into the water, at a great distance, etc. ...
Therefore, I can say with all responsibility that the Airborne Forces must exist and develop like the Airborne Forces. And the use of the Airborne Forces for its intended purpose is quite possible, with appropriate training.