Soviet combat vehicles. C-200 in Iraq

225
Soviet combat vehicles. C-200 in Iraq


"I shot down two tornadoes"

In a dispute over the 1991 war of the year, we can put up a valuable witness - a Russian officer of the C-200 complex. He did not obey the Gorbachev order and did not leave Iraq, standing shoulder to shoulder with the Arabs to defend his sky. This air defense major has several victories in his account, still hiding his name. Here is what he said:

"... In my technique, I was sure. Until the beginning of the nineties, the two hundred was probably the most advanced. A good station that can work with any interference, a good firing range is almost two hundred kilometers ... It was a pity that the complexes these were obviously not enough - just a few pieces for the whole of Iraq ...

For a whole month, on cloudy days and nights, when the earth was closed to air and space reconnaissance, we were engaged in equipping the positions of the division. Launchers, stations have long been "packed" in the most powerful concrete, which was applied a special coating, completely merged with sand. The units themselves moved on rails through the whole system of tunnels and each had several combat positions. The stations were also retractable. Within a few seconds, the plate on which the radar was located was moved by tens of meters with the help of electric motors. In addition, the Iraqi construction battalions erected three false division positions. In general, in engineering, one of our divisions was pulling for a whole regiment ... But how did it pay off then!

Then I was just surprised by the number of layouts and dummies deployed by Iraqis. In the Union, they were practically not used, and here, for each system or installation, there were three or four models. Layouts were mainly of Italian and French origin. Perfectly made of durable rubber coated with metallic paint. The compressor was turned on - and after a minute, a radar station with a missile or tank was in position. Moreover, their characteristics in size, radiation spectrum and many others fully corresponded to real samples. weapons. At dummies tanks in the engine area there was even a special heating unit that imitated the operation of the motor ...

On the false positions of our division, for complete illusion, several outdated radar stations and several imitators of radar were deployed. Of course, false positions
just as carefully camouflaged, just a bit "negligent." The pseudo-divisions had their own calculations, which strenuously portrayed vigorous combat work.

... Coalition reconnaissance aircraft constantly circled over areas where Iraqi forces were stationed. Almost continuously over us hung reconnaissance satellites.

Of course, the Americans did everything to open our defenses. I can not say that they did not succeed ... But still the war did not start at all in the way that the Americans had expected.

Eight hours before the first raid, the coalition began electronic jamming. The newest NATO systems almost completely clogged the air and cut off the frequencies of the transmitting and receiving frequencies of the radar. Everything is “blind” and “deaf”. Frankly speaking - it was scary. Except wire communication, no other functioned. It was terrible and very sad to feel their dependence on the enemy, his power and initiative. And at half past two in the night of January 17 the raid began.

... Our positions were bombed four times that day. First, we were attacked at extreme low altitude by combat helicopters, then by English and Italian Tornadoes. Then the American F-16 struck a rocket-bombing attack, then again Tornado. At low altitudes, the A-10 attack aircraft "ironed" us last. By the time the 18 raid stopped, and a reconnaissance aircraft hung over our area.

I do not know how many bombs were dropped that day, but none of them caused us any harm. All got two false positions. Almost all night fires were burning there ...

The first three days we did not give signs of life. After supplementary exploration, we were still bombed four times by the same Tornado and F-16. Tornado hit the target at extremely low altitudes and worked mostly in two groups with an interval of 2-3 minutes. They delivered strikes with guided missiles and, after the attack, carried out an anti-aircraft maneuver. F-16 more often practiced "star" raid from different directions and threw bombs with a combat reversal. They were also controlled, and every day they increasingly compared false positions with the earth.

During these three days, we got used to the situation and conducted the first analysis. He was ineffective - the coalition had complete superiority in the forces and means of air attack, and there was no way to organize a full-fledged opposition. That would be suicide. Only ambush actions remained.

We shot down the first coalition plane on the fourth day. Having decided that the division was destroyed, the Allies completely switched to the attack of an airfield a few kilometers from us. It was covered by "seventy-fifth" missile systems and several anti-aircraft artillery batteries. ... For three days, all the anti-aircraft missile units were completely suppressed there, they had hit all the radar, but the gunners stubbornly kept. On their account there were already two downed aircraft. The resistance of the gunners was all the more surprising because the airfield itself became empty. A day before the first raid, all the planes flew somewhere at night, and a coalition with the persistence of elephants carried the same dummies for four days ...


... At seven in the morning the observers reported on the appearance of a group of aircraft. These were the English "Tornado", heading for the next attack ground of the airfield. We decided to open fire. The group went in the usual manner. The jammer was located above and behind, another covered the group from the left hemisphere - from the side of the airfield.

The Tornadoes themselves marched in three combat units in a close order of battle at a height of seventy meters. The distance to the targets was eighteen kilometers.

By pushing the equipment of the division to the “loopholes” (as we called the battlegrounds), we prepared for firing. The radar came on, and goals appeared on the screens immediately. The main direction of jamming was in the direction of the airfield, and therefore our indicators remained almost clear. It took only a few seconds for the operators to process the targets and take them into “capture” mode. And now report on the readiness to fire. The goal - the lead of the third link. Start! Two rockets with a crash fall from the guides and rushed to the victim.

Tornado, of course, discovered our exposure and rocket launch. In our direction hurriedly turn the jammers. Sami "Tornado" began to rapidly disperse, trying to get out from under the blow. But too late. The lead link had no room to maneuver either in speed or in height. The pilot managed only to leave for a turn, when the rocket turned the plane into a pile of burning debris.

Joyful cries filled the cockpit guidance station. Forgetting the danger, we all embraced. I was nearly strangled in the embrace of the division commander Mustafa. Battle account is open!

Suddenly, we all sharply throws aside. The electric motors came on, and the platform with the cabin slides toward the shelter. Operators hastily disconnect the station. At the same moment, the radar simulator is switched on in a false position, diverting enemy aircraft to itself. Here, according to the scenario, the trap is also turned off. But the Americans had enough time to detect it.
The next day we are almost continuously bombed.

In total, we counted twelve raids. Impressive. The launch of the rocket apparently detected the satellite. Because the Americans struck several blows on the place where the real launcher was located. Fortunately, their bombs did not “feel” the concrete. And so we were not found again.
Covers some strange excitement. The game of cat and mouse is fascinating. On the Americans side, full numerical and qualitative superiority. In our - calculation, cunning, speed.

We shot down the second Tornado a week later. All this time, the "allies" continually smashed all the false positions they found. At the same time, other groups diligently flew around our region. Though small, but a victory. The defenders of the airfield are now calm for the fact that now there are no attacks from our direction. The airfield is disabled, but the anti-aircraft batteries continue to snap. In the ranks, however, less than half of the people and installations remained. I was fascinated by the Iraqis!

If it were not for the treachery of Gorbachev, how could we "wash" these "Yankee and Company" here! Throw here the heels of the regiments of the C-300 and our "two-hundred" - and there would be nothing to catch the whole coalition. They would stuff all this NATO iron like ducks in August. For a long time to remember. I can not understand what was happening then with the Union. We betrayed all who could be betrayed. And for what? For the fact that Reagan approvingly patted bald Misha on the cheek?

We got the second Tornado almost at the maximum range. Just ended another "preventive" raid on our position. All around in smoke and clouds of dust. And by communication we were told that there was an attack on a neighboring city. The British are spreading a pharmaceutical factory.

In general, in this war, I reconsidered my attitude towards NATO and America. We are inspired that they are de "civilized", "cultural" and "decent" people. But in fact there were jackals jackals. Just like the Germans in the Patriotic. The week of the bombing of military sites did not give the coalition a special result. The Iraqi military machine, buried in the ground, withstood the blows of the "allies" and now, having dazzled, they simply demolished the entire Iraqi infrastructure. For a week now they have been bombing bridges, factories, and factories.

In Baghdad, a baby food plant, a dairy factory, and a pharmaceutical factory were bombed under the guise of "military targets". Now the same factory is being trashed next to us. Tomorrow it will be declared a "tank factory".

Taking advantage of the darkness (and it was about midnight), clouds of dust and smoke, turn around in the positions and turn on. Screens jammed with noise. But the "dvuhsotki" has a regime that allows them to fight. The station begins to work "beam", reliably blocking a certain sector. We see the outgoing "Tornado" coalition. Guidance operators "cling" him, and now the guides are in sync. Start! Rockets are fired by arrows of fire into the night sky. The seconds are painfully long. Mark targets and rockets come together. But how slowly ...!

At the last moment, the plane, apparently, the warning of the approach of the rocket. He tried to maneuver, but late. Undermining - and the radar indicator is empty.

Now we are stormed several times a day. But there is a good one news - aviation Allies no longer falls below six thousand meters. Of course, this is not only the result of our strikes. But it is a victory. The "antediluvian", "outdated", "ineffective" air defense of Iraq after a week of war forced the Allies to abandon low-altitude bombing. Too sensitive losses.

The advertised miracle plane "Tornado", in my observation, turned out to be a machine unsuccessful. The plane is not enough tenacious, too heavy and poorly maneuverable. They have already been pinned a whole bunch ...

As this hulk has brought to us, it remains only to guess. They say the Americans have created a killer aircraft tank.

On the heavy C-5A, the Galaxy was equipped with a hundred-millimeter cannon for firing at the ground. A sort of neo- "flying fortress."

And such a large object weighing under two hundred tons turned out to be in the area of ​​our shooting. Maybe the pilots got lost, and maybe they lost their vigilance after twenty days of bombing, but only when this “flare” about the size of a manfly appeared on the screen of the indicator did we just gasp.


To miss it would be complete nonsense. Knowing that on such ships to hell with all sorts of radio-electronic traps, we shot in television mode. Rockets were guided on television. Visually. There are two hundred, and such a regime.

The Americans did not even have time to understand what happened to them when two rockets "silently", without turning on the radar guidance heads, got into the carcass of the Galaxy. It was an indescribable spectacle. Sunset sky And a huge cloud of fire tilting into the desert.

After this, the area of ​​our division became forbidden for flights of Western aviation. We began to fall asleep ship "tomahawks." There were losses, there was destruction. But the whole area was spared from the bombing. Allied airplanes did not appear in our sky until the very end of the war ... "
("I shot down two Tornadoes. Recorded by V. Smolentsev." Day of the Warrior ", 1, 1997)

This testimony of our missile says a lot. The Americans boasted that with the help of the French reconnaissance satellite "Spot" (with "eyes" in the form of a huge panel of thousands of silicon photodiodes) were able to detect the carefully camouflaged underground bunker of the Iraqi command east of Baghdad. And they sent a plane with a two-ton laser-induced bomb on it. Even earlier, they say, Spot helped set targets for the bombing of Libya in the 1986 year. But no "Spot" was able to detect the underground fortress from which this C-200 installation operated.
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  1. +16
    8 January 2013 11: 06
    Whether it will still be, oh-oh-oh-oh ... But it will be!
    1. +64
      8 January 2013 12: 03
      Yes, it’s really a pity that there weren’t our S-300s there, if they were snatched from the S-200 there))) And of course I will never forgive those people who destroyed the Union for their betrayal.
      1. Denzel13
        +45
        8 January 2013 12: 50
        And even at that time, the division in which I served was in full combat readiness for delivery to Iraq for 7 days, received intelligence information about what was happening, but one Humpbacked bastard betrayed an ally. There were no teams to depart.
        1. merkel1961
          +21
          8 January 2013 22: 44
          It is not for nothing that Judah was celebrated in London, where is the branch on which it is upturned?
          1. rolik
            +8
            9 January 2013 11: 55
            Quote: merkel1961
            , where is the branch on which it is upturned?
            /
            Unfortunately, this nits are no longer upturned. I hope when he dies, he and hell will not find a place.
            1. +2
              10 January 2013 22: 11
              Well it can still change. The main thing is that they would give the team. And an ice ax - he is an ice ax in England smile
            2. satellite
              +1
              11 January 2013 17: 55
              Hell will seem to him heaven ...
          2. Che
            Che
            +1
            10 January 2013 07: 34
            merkel1961,
            In general, in this war, I reconsidered my attitude towards NATO and America. We are inspired that they are de "civilized", "cultural" and "decent" people. But in fact there were jackals jackals. Just like the Germans in the Patriotic. The week of the bombing of military sites did not give the coalition a special result. The Iraqi military machine, buried in the ground, withstood the blows of the "allies" and now, having dazzled, they simply demolished the entire Iraqi infrastructure. For a week now they have been bombing bridges, factories, and factories.

            They were always creatures if she had a betrayal such as Gorby. They would also see how the gringos would wash themselves with a bloody yushka. The earth would burn under the feet of pi-d-ro-in.
            1. bakso
              -22
              10 January 2013 13: 27
              The civilized Russian army in Georgia behaved so worthy in 2008, 15 cities outside the conflict zone, the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline is also probably a military facility, 10kg 1000kg. the bombs were dropped, snipers !!!))) 388 civilians accidentally died, and even used the toilets (I hope the contents came in handy too))) and much more about which the media are not telling you that much, and even drastically shot down your aircraft, ( I'm silent about Chechnya 95-2000 years, I’m silent, hundreds of thousands of dead, the whole republic is razed to the ground, it’s also an anti-terrorist company) humane warriors, you yourself reproach the former republics for parasites to beat, calm down, the era of RUSSIA has ended, everyone hates you and this is just the beginning . I am sorry that such a great and beautiful country, such a generous people with such a history, with such ancestors as Lermontov, Griboedov, Chekhov and many many others, become hostages of the Lilliputins and their minions, profiting and humiliating this great country, I am sorry for you, I hope with they will also take demand, for everything they have done, for what they have done with this country and with this people ... !!!
              You can see for yourself ...)))) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSOLP3L6PHY
              1. Denzel13
                +5
                10 January 2013 13: 54
                Quote: Bakso
                I feel sorry for you


                Are you by any chance involved from the Georgian army?
                Well cry, cry. Just the wrong site was chosen for these purposes. And the wrong country. There is such an office - the State Department is called (in one country where people like to bring democracy to the world), they will probably listen to you attentively, maybe even help them financially.
                1. bakso
                  -11
                  10 January 2013 14: 18
                  Well, what else can you say about this, envy is absurd on the verge, you yourself probably dream of 1, not just our wooden but State Department’s green, or European, history is cruel, the Lord’s paths are mysterious, you will probably soon begin to study Chinese and accumulating Yuan theirs ...
                  He served for a long time, back in the early 90s in the Georgian armies, now I live in Russia, I am pleased with this people, simple, without inferiority complexes, but not those who are at the head and those who whine and cry about the past greatness of this country.
                  1. +1
                    10 January 2013 17: 13
                    You are right about the complexes, they are more likely to be characteristic of the former republics, but you don’t understand anything about the people, because he knows that real greatness has not yet come.
                    1. bakso
                      -8
                      10 January 2013 20: 41
                      You are ridiculous here people, build illusions and live it, the days of the empire are gone, the time of Russia has passed. It’s strange that the last great ruler of great Russia was beaten by my fellow countryman, a Georgian, who himself was trampled upon, even though you haven’t had this in history anymore, it was your apogee, the zenith of your glory, well, yes, maybe there are some kind of republics that don't yearn according to the past, but I haven’t heard of such people.
                      At the expense of Russians, I know many who will tear a shirt for Russia on their breasts, after 2 to 50, only to a simple question, when they were kulikov, they answer in 1812 or 1943, this is your truth, generations of neo-Nazis and ignoramuses, with a can of beer ...
                      1. +6
                        10 January 2013 23: 13
                        Bakso! I see that you are a big fan of Russa’s history, but why didn’t she teach you anything? And there were times in Russia and better, but we do not speak Mongolian, not German. And you Georgians are personally obligated to this ridiculous people by the fact that you can be called Georgians and speak Georgian. So what about a can of beer ... better look in the mirror.
                      2. 0
                        14 January 2013 15: 35
                        really sorry for you, the diagnosis is complicated belay fool
                  2. Denzel13
                    +3
                    10 January 2013 17: 23
                    I have enough of what I have. And I am not so limited in thinking that my interests are in the possession of pieces of paper of different colors. Do not align yourself.
                    Do you speak people without complexes? No, we have a certain complex in relation to the citizens of the breakaway republics of the USSR. When you start pouring dirt on us, you will get an answer, only not with dirt (only those who are not capable of more can do this, only yapping from under the fence) but with your fist (remember 1992-93, 2008).

                    PS By the way, did I cry about the greatness of the former country? In my opinion, this is exactly what you were doing, remembering how Georgia fell in 2008.
                    PSS And yet, since you decided to write on a Russian-language site, do it competently.
                    PSSS And why not at home - then, there is democracy, etc. etc.?
                    1. bakso
                      -11
                      10 January 2013 21: 11
                      Regarding 1992-93 and 2008, these warriors were not soldiers who lost, but the country's leadership, 93 Sokhumi did not hold out for 3 days, as your great commander GRACHEV said, but for more than a month, but on the account of 08, well, yes, 150 million for 3.5 million, as you wrote there, "PUSHED" you twist, however, still kiss the ass at the sarcos ...))) Do not forget, the war is not over yet, even Serafima Sarovsky warned Russia not to go to war against Georgia ...
                      1. Denzel13
                        +3
                        10 January 2013 21: 33
                        I don’t even want to comment on such nonsense (also stated illiterate). One thing I’ll say, we were tearing you and we’ll fight (there is the N-th number of nicks on the butt). Learn history - Turks in this region generally spit in one place as they wanted with all the inhabitants, that is, your ancestors. If you have problems, bring them to your homeland (no one will cry, although I can wave my handkerchief after you, if you are too sentimental (should I explain the meaning of the word?), Pick up a weapon and try again to do the same.

                        PS
                        Quote: Bakso
                        not the soldiers lost but the country's leadership

                        Well, yes, and the "warriors" "courageously" did the sprint at the stayer's distance (explain the concept?), When they realized that the tonsils would reach through another hole. And this is not from the media - these are observations, so to speak, from the first person.
                      2. bakso
                        -5
                        10 January 2013 21: 56
                        Wow, there are even nicks on the butt, youth !!!))))
                        Well, go on fighting further, Syria, Afghanistan that here you are sitting a warrior of dicks, the question of Russia is also being solved there. No, you’re always trying to attack a small country, but there maybe somewhere he plays ...))))
                      3. +1
                        10 January 2013 22: 14
                        Small but shitty smile
                      4. Denzel13
                        +1
                        10 January 2013 22: 50
                        Save
                        Quote: Bakso
                        even there are nicks on the butt, youth


                        Oh, this is such a "discovery" !!!! For this they even reward, if that.

                        PS I already wrote, if you are trying to communicate with us in the Russian Federation - write competently - otherwise your "pearls" are laughter for sheep.

                        P.P.S
                        Quote: Bakso
                        No, you always attack a small country

                        Nothing beguiled? Who attacked whom? Abkhazia and Ossetia are not yours, forget about it, it’s time to get smarter — the citizens of the Russian Federation live there. Any questions?
                      5. bakso
                        -4
                        10 January 2013 22: 56
                        How much sugar do not say ...)))))
                        time will tell.
                      6. Denzel13
                        +4
                        10 January 2013 23: 51
                        Learn Russian - it will come in handy. I repeat once again for the "especially gifted" - have any questions? Bring down to your homeland. Of course, we "worry", but I think we will.
                      7. mnn_12
                        +4
                        11 January 2013 01: 00
                        Do you not understand that Georgia will not progress without good relations with Russia? Look at the story and think ... Are the Amer interested in you only in the role of puppets and cannon fodder and will leave you at the first moment when it will not be profitable for them to spend more dolars on you? Who is your ally in the region? Turks?
                        He very much regretted that in the decades ahead it would be necessary for the most natural thing to happen - normal and friendly relations between Georgia and Russia.
                      8. Denzel13
                        +2
                        11 January 2013 01: 32
                        Quote: mnn_12
                        He very much regretted that in the decades ahead the most natural thing would be needed - normal and friendly relations between Georgia and Russia.

                        This will not happen, we, Abkhazians and Ossetians, have a lot to do with Georgia for what they did. There will never be "friendly" relations - only on the platform of "vassal - suzerain". There was friendship, which they exchanged for green candy wrappers - well, what can you say "good luck". Only even a gayrope already understands that in the event of a conflict with us, she will be the first to fall under the "distribution", which the burghers and their henchmen do not like at all.
                  3. mnn_12
                    +5
                    10 January 2013 19: 54
                    I live in a country where you can say that "democracy" is quite victorious. A country that sells weapons to Saakashvili. Believe me, it was not worth destroying the USSR. And Zadokenskie friends of Georgia and the Georgian people are only interested in the role of a puppet. For the prosperity of peoples, including Georgian, they would not give a cent. Do not store illusions.
                  4. +1
                    10 January 2013 21: 14
                    What are you doing in Russia? Maybe you should dump it on your historical homeland?
                    1. bakso
                      -4
                      10 January 2013 21: 45
                      I don’t hail Russia, but those who consider themselves Russia, those who believe that the country belongs to him and not the other way around, they belong to this country, those who profit and get rich due to these warriors and rip-offs, of course the states nya, but isn't it in our Rush that gasoline is more expensive, not the one in power who has everyone and everywhere, only in this country, abroad there is little ambition !!!! I have friends and family here. In 95, there was a choice, either to the states or to Russia, the courts came, because the mentality is similar and this people is close to me, although most of my colleagues died from your shots, these are the grief of patriots. He himself was angry and worried when they started bombing Belgrade, and friends called 08-g with apologies about this horror that these insatiable ": giants" have done in Georgia ...!
                      It really doesn’t suit you, hide behind the autocracy in the kitchen to support it on a holiday, you yourself have dragged and ruined this country, or let others do it, and who is to blame for the Jewish Masons, Americans and Jews, yes, now Georgians too ...
                      In 2002, we went to a sports bar, the one in Russia, to watch football, you probably remember, the gathering Georgia is Russia, then in the whole huge bar only two of my brother and I were sick and happy for Georgia, there were two of us, the rest were probably 50 people. 60 for Russia, and it was right, this is good, this is humanity, and not something, "come in large numbers here, there is no life from you" !!!!!! We all came in large numbers here, on this land, and we will go there, without ambition, and the king, geniuses and the homeless alike rot in the ground, do not renounce and do not flatter yourself, you can write to me many more minuses anyway ...)))
                      PS
                      I live in my historical homeland, in the CAUCASUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!)))))
                      All with the past, I respect you too !!!))))
                      1. Denzel13
                        0
                        10 January 2013 23: 00
                        No need to scatter compliments when you have cheated on a country before. Have the courage to say what you think without trying to whitewash yourself. Go to your homeland, we do not need you and those close to you in spirit. What are you doing in Russia? Drop to yourself - democratize, etc. (Or is it easier and more profitable to make a living in the Russian Federation?) You won’t think like us, you won’t stay here anyway.
                      2. bakso
                        -1
                        11 January 2013 14: 43
                        A bunch of fanatical idiots is not all of Russia, you read what is written and not what suits you !!! I live where the Georgians lived and will live, in the Caucasus, do you like it or ...)))
                        I’ll add to all the other gifted ones, there is so much bile in you, so much hatred, so much rot, whence, how you still live, how the toad has not yet strangled you, yes, I’m not saying that the Georgians are angels, but they never betrayed Russia and died for it, and you...???
                        And why do you need this, you’re always right, the right of the strong, but everything has its time, there will always be stronger than the strong ...))))
                        And then I don’t want to continue the discussion with you, go get medical treatment, treat your sick vanity, thank God that there are less and less people like you !!!!
                2. +3
                  10 January 2013 20: 42
                  So this buck is the mishandled American. The statement shows. He only taught Russian literature precariously.
                  1. bakso
                    -3
                    10 January 2013 21: 15
                    Bakso and not bucks, actually not from the word bucks my nickname ...
                    By the way, the centurion of the Cossack army, the chieftain himself gave the rank, for merits, not for bucks or w ... liz ...))))
                    1. Denzel13
                      +2
                      10 January 2013 23: 05
                      To be honest, I do not really approve of the Cossacks by definition, but the Cossack is a Georgian, even for my inexperienced (and apparently not too knowledgeable in history) thinking, the concept is practically from the field of unscientific fiction.

                      So you are a Cossack?
                      Can you give any of your coordinates, for example, the Kuban or Don Cossack army?
                      1. +5
                        11 January 2013 01: 40
                        Quote: Denzel13
                        To be honest, I do not really approve of the Cossacks by definition, but the Cossack is Georgian, even for my inexperienced (and apparently not too knowledgeable in history) thinking, the concept is practically from the field of unscientific fiction. .....

                        + 1000!
                        The Cossacks died. And then HOW all sorts of Ostap Bendery, opportunists, speculators from politics "revive" him, allows us to say that he has died forever, finally and irrevocably.

                        Why be surprised ?! Already Jews come across among the Cossacks ....
                        Nonsense ...
                      2. Denzel13
                        0
                        11 January 2013 02: 49
                        Igor, I will reveal a "terrible" secret - once I saw a testimony that a certain citizen ...... anyan is an original Cossack of the Kuban Cossack army. Whinnying for a long time and without respite, for a long time! wassat
                      3. bakso
                        0
                        11 January 2013 14: 54
                        ...)))
                        Denzel do not disgrace, I want to think that my opponent is at least an educated person, albeit with notches on the butt)))
                        But just in case, I will say that the Cossack does not belong to any one nationality, the Cossacks are a way of life that not everyone could become, and of course, since there was nothing left before the revolution, they only got to drink and show off with some medals and orders came, and at the expense of the Armenians, I also heard such a Cossack, "proud" of this people ...)))
                        When they handed me a crust with the rank written there, the centurion, I also neigh for a long time ...))))
                      4. +1
                        11 January 2013 19: 37
                        Quote: Bakso
                        .... I will say, the Cossack does not belong to any one nationality, the Cossacks are a way of life that not everyone could become, yes of course ....

                        bakso, since you are now a Cossack, and even a centurion, learn history. Otherwise, you will remain disguised. I recommend starting with a historical study in three parts from Evgraf Savelyev - "The History of the Cossacks from Ancient Times to the End of the 1915th Century", the first part of which was published in 19, that is, even before the revolution. And he started working on this topic even earlier, back in the XNUMXth century, that is, he did not find the "mummers". Therefore, this book contains the most accurate information about who the Cossacks are.

                        Saveliev writes that the Cossacks are exactly the ancient peoplewho led a very special lifestyle - here you are right. But the book says that despite the fact that the Don and Kuban spoke practically in Russian (a kind of surzhik from Russian and Ukrainian words), they did not consider themselves to be either Russian, or even more so Ukrainians. Those real Cossacks considered themselves a completely separate people of Slavic origin.

                        PS After reading the book "The Ancestral Home of the Rus" (by Rassokha, "Eksmo", 2009), I began to think that the Cossacks are a caste of warriors that has survived since the times of the Indo-European community. Historians (various, not only Rassokha) believe that the Indo-European society was caste: priests, warriors and free (farmers). And this very Indo-European community (Sredniy Stog culture) existed before the division, as archaeologists confirm, just in the steppes of southern Russia / Ukraine on the territory between the Dnieper and the Don - exactly where the Cossacks are found in historical time.
                      5. bakso
                        -3
                        12 January 2013 19: 42
                        I do not claim to be a great connoisseur of the Cossacks, for this I also do not suffer much pain, there are many historians, especially recently, publish books as you want and how much you want, most importantly pay. I don’t understand one thing, according to this newly-minted historian, it turns out that the South Caucasus is Armenians, the north is either Alans, or Sarmatians or Cossacks, but where did the Ingush, Chechens and many other nationalities live in which the annals are much more ancient than ...)))

                        Dear Skating rink, everyone has their own truth, for some it is true and for whom it is nonsense and nonsense ..
                      6. +1
                        13 January 2013 13: 35
                        Quote: Bakso
                        .... especially recently, publish books as you want and how much you want, most importantly pay ...

                        Therefore, I give you a link to a book that has been under development since the end of the 19th century, and was published - at the beginning of the 20th century.

                        Quote: Bakso
                        everyone has their own truth, for some it is true and for whom it is nonsense and nonsense ..

                        Yes, I already see.
                        Now you can often see: if serious books and studies are not satisfied with the results and conclusions from them, then the easiest way is to declare "your own truth."
                        But this is an ostrich policy, and hiding one's head in the sand of "one's own truth", just not to see the real truth, real situation does not change.

                        TRUTH - IT IS ONE.
                        Everything else is untrue, that is, a lie.


                        And this worldview of the Slavs and Cossacks always and fundamentally differed from the deceitful West and the cunning East.
                        Cossacks - ancient knights - lay with their bones just for the truth, against a lie. We can say that they had a cult of truth. In addition, the Cossacks were sincerely pious, and they had a little their own version of the Orthodox faith, perhaps more archaic.
                        This is the case with modern "mummers" pseudo-Cossacks - everyone has "their own truth", and often they come across unbaptized ones.

                        Quote: Bakso
                        lived Ingush, Chechens and many other nationalities whose annals are much ancient
                        Yes, you read, read ... Nobody is forgotten, and the Chechens, and the Ingush, and all other peoples and nationalities in history have a place and time, even Chechens. Maybe in one book you won’t write about everyone, and someone is not mentioned there - I agree. But can you keep more than one book on a bookshelf?
                      7. 0
                        14 January 2013 15: 40
                        you are a Cossack, do not disgrace fool you are not a Cossack am
                    2. +3
                      10 January 2013 23: 21
                      Have you invented a time machine? Or do you seriously consider these mummers of the Cossacks? Do you want me to give you the rank of centurion?
                      1. Denzel13
                        +1
                        10 January 2013 23: 55
                        A mechanic, to be honest, mummers are mummers, I just haven’t met Georgian Cossacks before. Agree, you can put them in the Red Book laughing
                      2. +4
                        11 January 2013 00: 01
                        or maybe they are infectious? And the one whom the Georgian Cossack will bite himself becomes the Georgian Cossack ?? They say the Jewish Cossacks have risen up already)))





                      3. Denzel13
                        0
                        11 January 2013 00: 36
                        They probably breed by budding, although of course they are not specialists in this industry. Better geyropeyskih ask on this subject laughing
                  2. 0
                    10 January 2013 23: 18
                    Do you seriously think that the Americans are seriously concerned about the belligerent mood of the Russians in this forum ???
              2. 0
                14 January 2013 15: 32
                pi-do-ro-K, answer, is it a strategic product during the war, or what kind of product?
                but about the era of Russia, it's not for you to decide, your business is small, masturbate and sleep!
        2. +6
          8 January 2013 22: 48
          Well done! These are the people who save the world, otherwise these podlaxans would have ruined everything for a long time. Nothing, not a long time left for them.
      2. vyatom
        +6
        9 January 2013 12: 04
        Here the hedgehog bullshit bald. And so far, she has let out her replicas about how to manage the country. Ch.M.O.shnik. fu
    2. Hunghuz
      0
      9 January 2013 10: 04
      In Libya, they killed a T-200 F-18 with one S-200 missile))) the only case in the world) Gaddafi announced a XNUMX km exclusion zone for NATO aircraft)
      1. Denzel13
        0
        9 January 2013 12: 18
        Hunghuz
        If not difficult, you can link to this episode. Very interesting.
    3. +1
      9 January 2013 21: 37
      We betrayed all those who could be betrayed at all. And for what? For Reagan approvingly patting the bald Misha on the cheek?


      they betrayed us too ...
    4. 0
      11 January 2013 18: 52
      Glory to the air defense! Shame and general contempt for Gorbachev! And God forbid to live to see the time when this .... will be judged in all severity of the law!
  2. karimbaev
    +9
    8 January 2013 11: 07
    we still have 200. they want to upgrade.
    1. +8
      8 January 2013 13: 45
      At my side, the calculations are standing, and even standing so that the inhabitants of the city themselves know little about its existence.
      1. +12
        8 January 2013 23: 44
        In skillful hands, an ordinary slingshot is also a weapon. And amers can shoot only from around the corner and only when they know for sure that they are not being piled on them. I, as before, now consider the Yankees to be scum.
  3. +22
    8 January 2013 11: 10
    I have never read anything like this before. Ay, yes, ours, ah yes, s.u.c.i.sons)) Author respect for the article
    1. mnn_12
      +27
      8 January 2013 12: 55
      Of course, they didn’t read the hospitable truth.
      I can not understand what happened then with the Union. We betrayed all those who could be betrayed at all.

      I am very glad that I understood this and had the courage to tell the Russian officer directly. Here, I have said this more than once ... under the barrage of verbal fire of the forum war. Understanding the truth about perestroika is an important step towards the restoration of Russia ...
      1. +5
        9 January 2013 10: 36
        mnn_12,
        In terms of??? Just in Russia, everyone understood for a long time that they had betrayed us. But we must not forget that our Western friends became the first to betray, with their impulses for a beautiful capitalist life.
        1. mnn_12
          +12
          9 January 2013 11: 29
          Dear carver,
          Sorry, but this is complete absurdity. The West has never been a friend of Russia or the USSR. At different points in history there were common interests but nothing more - look at the stories, there are numerous tricks, often of which are very detailed on this site. In this sense, they complain that Western friends have betrayed it - it is touching to tears of naivety and a complete lack of understanding of the historical goals and priorities of Western and, in particular, Anglo-Saxon geopolitics. They 90% achieved goals in the Cold War. Not udolos only destroy Russia but in this direction they are acting now.
          I will not speak about the roles of Mikhail Sergeyevich and Boris Nikolaevich, I am convinced that the Russians in 2013 do not have an illusion about them.
        2. +4
          9 January 2013 19: 24
          Quote: carver
          ..... But we must not forget that our Western friends became the first to betray, with their impulses for a beautiful capitalist life.

          In the West, Russia (USSR) had no friends and no friends.
          therefore they could not betray. They could replay, breed like village simpletons, promise beautiful bright beads like Papuans, but betray - could not. The West, America and Britain just bought a few people and led them to the top of power in the USSR, and they got the opportunity to do the work for which they were promised money, immunity and a calm old age.

          Gorbachev - bought, a traitor.
          At the post of the first and last President of the USSR, he had one task - the destruction of this very USSR. He completely dealt with her, Judas labeled.

          There is such an interesting little book, "Protocols of secret agreements of Gorbachev with the Americans", authors Michael Beshloss, Talbott Strobe http://www.x-libri.ru/elib/bestl000/index.htm... Since the authors themselves are Americans, the presentation of information is "combed" in the right direction. But nevertheless, who is interested in the question - I advise you to read. (Of course, filtering and remembering all the time who the authors are.)
          1. mnn_12
            +1
            9 January 2013 20: 59
            Dear Katok,
            I doubt that during the years of perestroika Gorbachev was a paid traitor (leave what he says now). They manipulated the ego with pathological vanity and it was quite prosperous (remember Gorby mania?). He had almost everything as the leader of the USSR. The problems are different - it was a man completely unsuitable for the leader of one of the poles of the world in those years. It was simply all that the bloodless Soviet gerontocracy could offer in those years.
            1. +6
              10 January 2013 02: 02
              Quote: mnn_12
              .... I doubt that Gorbachev during the years of perestroika was a paid traitor .......... The problems are different - he was a man completely unsuitable for the leader of one of the poles of the world in those years. ......


              mnn_12, I also once thought of Gorbachev as an inept, unsuitable leader who did not have malicious intent, but destroyed the USSR by its naivety, short-rangeness and trust in the words of Western politicians.

              Until I became interested in the details of his biography, coming to power and, most importantly! - his activities as president of the country. It is enough to deal with his actions more closely and systematically, and it becomes clear to you that naivety and meekness of his case cannot be explained. He did so much damage to the country's defense that when you collect all the fragments of a big puzzle, doubts disappear: in the Kremlin, on the highest armchair, it was the CIA agent on the mission. Gorbachev closed so many promising projects, leaked so much secret information to the West that this is not explained by naivety.
              And what made Gorbachev destroy the USSR? Enough power was concentrated in the hands of the President in order to prevent Belovezhskaya Pushcha. Moreover, this directly contradicted the results of the referendum, at which the peoples of the USSR unequivocally supported the preservation of the Union. DID NOT WANT ANYONE! In addition to Gorbachev and several other party bonuses purchased.

              (Not to mention the notorious island bought by Raisa Maksimovna even before the collapse of the Soviet Union. CPSU member Gorbachev, even the President of the USSR, could not have sufficient personal money to buy the island in principle !!!! especially his wife, a housewife. ... "Where did the firewood come from? !!!")

              If you are interested in this topic, I advise you to take a closer look at the affairs of Mishka Labeled. Get yourself a daddy, and methodically add links and articles about him there. And most of all, collect the mentions "A promising missile system - the development was closed by order of Gorbachev", "A satellite that has no analogues - drowned in the sea by order of Gorbachev" tags to make it easier to spot from space ".... and so on, the list is endless.

              And when you gain a ton of such evidence, you yourself will say the same thing as me: not in vain, oh not in vain this Judas is hiding in the States and does not show his nose to Russia.
              1. +3
                10 January 2013 02: 06
                Continuation of the "too long comment" ......
                _____________________________


                Start meeting Gorbatov again with such a selection

                How and when was Mikhail Gorbachev recruited by the US CIA?
                http://mihooy.livejournal.com/99090.html

                Portrait of Gorbachev, a team of traitors, Masons.
                http://www.pomnimvse.com/03pb.html

                Who put Gorbachev in power?
                http://apocalypse.orthodoxy.ru/review/2010_2.htm

                Speech M.S. Gorbachev at a seminar at American University in Turkey
                http://www.usinfo.ru/gorbachov.htm#%D0%A0%D0%B5%D1%87%D1%8C%20%D0%9C.%D0%A1.%20%
                D0%93%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0%20%D0%BD%D0%B0%20%D1%81%D0
                %B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B5%20%D0%B2%20%D0%90%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B
                8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%20%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%
                80%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%20%D0%B2%20%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8
                % D0% B8


                A complete overview of the crimes of Gorbachev and his entourage
                http://voprosik.net/polnyj-obzor-prestuplenij-gorbacheva-i-ego-okruzheniya/
                (Despite the name, of course, this is not a complete list. Only theft, Misha's financial "activity" is analyzed here. The harm to the country's defense capacity is not mentioned here at all).

                Read, take the time ....
              2. terp 50
                +3
                10 January 2013 05: 05
                SIR! All this, all this, all this ... but, I dare to recall that the Union has collapsed, all the same, Boriska and others like them ... (with ,, our, tacit consent - and why they didn’t shoot on arrival upon conspiracy ? Or, like Gaidar, .. - and there are cartridges, but there is nobody to shoot ...?) What can I say now? Boriska heaped up - even more ... and, to him - a pension, as much as 50 million (not including the IMF tranche of 2 billion through the Australian bank Dyachenko, daughter) ... and ???
                1. Che
                  Che
                  +1
                  10 January 2013 07: 45
                  terp 50,
                  Betrayal in itself is terrible, but betrayal of leadership is an indelible crime for centuries.
                2. mnn_12
                  +2
                  10 January 2013 17: 43
                  Gorbachov destroyed the Soviet block.
                  Yeltsin - USSR
                  First started, second - finished!
                3. +3
                  10 January 2013 21: 14
                  Gorbachev led the country to collapse. The main task of decomposing the Army and the military-industrial complex was accomplished precisely under the leadership of the humpback. Yeltsin only continued the destruction of the country and the decomposition of the people. The topic has already been sufficiently studied at the level of organs. Although we all ourselves have experienced everything in our own skin.
                  The only question is when Gorby will stand trial. Although the most important Court is ahead of him. And here you can only regret it. Betrayal is a mortal sin.
              3. Che
                Che
                +4
                10 January 2013 07: 43
                Rink,
                In Germany he is sitting - an ice ax is waiting.
                1. +3
                  10 January 2013 13: 25
                  Quote: Che
                  Rink,
                  In Germany he is sitting - an ice ax is waiting.

                  Eh ... It would be nice!
                  Purely for educational purposes, of course, just so that others would not be disgraced .... Yes, you see, they will let him go like that.
              4. mnn_12
                +2
                10 January 2013 17: 40
                Dear Katok,
                If all this is so, as you say, it means that the defeat of the USSR has no historical analogue, it is at times more ambitious than it would look at first glance. This is a phenomenal victory for the CIA. The CIA was able to easily achieve what fascist Germany failed.
                This means that Soviet society and political elites did not have any immunity ...
                I always thought that the great centralization of the Soviet system was directly related to its collapse - a situation where almost everything in the state depends on one person.
                So far I have not had such information. Trypaytus will get acquainted with your shipments ...
                But logic is eating. I read somewhere, for example, that the KGB and the CIA collaborated in the removal of Zhivkov — are they themselves loyal to Moscow a leader from Eastern Europe? From the point of view of Moscow, this is full of idiocy or ... sheer betrayal at the highest level.
                1. 0
                  10 January 2013 19: 04
                  Quote: mnn_12
                  Dear Katok,
                  If all this is so, as you say, it means that the defeat of the USSR has no historical analogue, it is at times more ambitious than it would look at first glance. This is a phenomenal victory for the CIA. The CIA was able to easily achieve what fascist Germany failed.
                  This means that Soviet society and political elites did not have any immunity ...

                  I agree with you.
                  From what I know today, I draw the same conclusions. The collapse of the USSR is a strategic goal that the USA has set for itself, and they have achieved it. And it was not a victory in the economy, or in ideology.
                  It was a failure of the security services and a betrayal of the very top.

                  But if you think about it, there are no revelations.
                  The United States was our outspoken adversary, even before the end of World War II, they moved from allies to a global confrontation. And nuclear strikes on unfortunate Japan were intended to intimidate the USSR and demonstrate the military power of the United States.
                  In the ensuing Cold War, the West did not conceal its goals, and Kennedy outlined them in no uncertain terms:

                  "We cannot defeat the Soviet Union in a conventional war. This is an impregnable fortress. We can defeat the Soviet Union only by other methods: ideological, psychological, propaganda, economics."
                  1961. JOHN KENNEDY. From a speech upon assuming the presidency of the United States.


                  Other America methods are known. They have been tested since the end of the 19th century in the banana republics of Latin America, and further the States used around the world. This is a purchase of the country's elite, literally a few people who are later brought to power, and as a result, America gains control of the country.
                  Examples are Yushchenko and Saakashvili. Both studied in the USA, both were held in power with the help of the USA. Everyone knows the result.
                  Apparently, the same methods were applied to the USSR.

                  And the failure of the Soviet special services is, in my humble opinion, that they knew perfectly well the favorite methods of the States, could not calculate, calculate the traitors. And when they took up key posts - it was too late.
                  1. mnn_12
                    +1
                    10 January 2013 20: 06
                    This is a purchase of the country's elite, literally a few people who are later brought to power, and as a result, America gains control of the country.

                    I fully agree with you. I also made these conclusions. The USSR tried to build factories, hospitals, schools in friendly countries. At the same time, all that the United States did was buy the elite. Look at Venezuela - a rich country in which people lived in misery and poverty at the expense of several hundred corrupt people. When Chavez came to power, it turned out that money ...
            2. Perch_xnumx
              +3
              10 January 2013 10: 26
              I doubt that during the years of perestroika Gorbachev was a paid traitor (leave what he says now).
              Apparently he was an ideological traitor, and later received awards. Osh surrendered, surrendered Nagorno-Karabakh, surrendered Abkhazia, surrendered Transnistria, Russian surrendered in Chechnya. And then we sat and thought that everything was fine.
              1. +1
                10 January 2013 13: 46
                Quote: Perch_1
                Apparently he was an ideological traitor ...

                One another is not a hindrance.
                Of course, he was mentally and ideologically prepared for what the Western special services had offered him, otherwise the story would have developed a little differently.
                But this is always the case: special services are looking for people who are mentally prepared (or ideally better), and with the help of money, blackmail and other things they are pushing to something that otherwise a person might not have decided.
                And even without the support of an extensive network of agents, he would not have succeeded.

                And the fact that he was not forced too much is a fact.
                Here is the beginning of his speech at a seminar at the American University of Turkey

                ..... The purpose of my whole life was the destruction of communism, ......

                I was fully supported by my wife, who understood the need for this even earlier than me. To achieve this goal, I used my position in the party and country.

                That is why my wife kept pushing me to consistently occupy an increasingly higher position in the country.

                When I personally became acquainted with the West, I realized that I could not retreat from my goal. And to achieve it, I had to replace the entire leadership of the CPSU and the USSR, as well as the leadership in all socialist countries. ......
                I managed to find associates in the implementation of these goals. Among them a special place is occupied by A.H. Yakovlev and E.G. Shevardnadze, whose merits, in our common cause, are simply invaluable.

                A world without communism will look better. After 2000, the era of peace and global prosperity will come. ........


                This nits of himself is still a hero, an ideological fighter builds, as can be seen.

                I believe this is a puncture of the security system. It was built in such a way that it was completely unprotected from the treason of the top. Acting quite effectively at lower levels, the KGB and counterintelligence could not arrest / liquidate the traitor as president. even when his actions began to threaten the very existence of the state.

                I hope that modern Russia will draw (made) the appropriate organizational conclusions from this.
                1. mnn_12
                  +1
                  10 January 2013 20: 19
                  ..... The purpose of my whole life was the destruction of communism, ......

                  Dear Katok,
                  These words alone do not mean anything. It may well be the words of a failed fool who is trying to earn money and present defeat for phenomenal success.
                  Other arguments that led to more significant and deserve attention.
                  1. 0
                    11 January 2013 03: 13
                    Quote: mnn_12
                    .... By themselves, these words do not mean anything. It may well be the words of a failed fool who is trying to earn money and present defeat for phenomenal success. ....

                    Of course, it may well be so.
                    But this is also a smear of paint in the big picture.
    2. Oleg Rosskiyy
      +12
      8 January 2013 14: 18
      Quote: urich
      . Ah yes ours, ah yes s.u.c.i.sons)

      The main thing is not to interfere with people competently doing their job, then do not rely on their miracles.
    3. +1
      9 January 2013 19: 13
      Quote: urich
      I have never read anything like this before. ....

      Well then read here http://topwar.ru/15180-poteri-nato-v-yugoslavii.html about the real losses of NATO in Yugoslavia.
      There is something to think about ....
      1. +1
        9 January 2013 22: 18
        I read an article on your link. Information on Yugoslavia is more accessible. but in Iraq 91 can you throw something else?
        1. Denzel13
          +1
          10 January 2013 07: 54
          I can toss it, only the volume is large, it will not fit into the post.
        2. 0
          10 January 2013 13: 59
          Quote: urich
          ...... but in Iraq 91 can you still throw something?

          There is such a note: http://rotfront.su/vvs-nato-skrivaut-svoi-poteri

          There is very little information on Iraq: the Yankees seem to have suffered quite serious losses there, incompatible with the image of a superpower, so the control over the information is very careful.

          In addition to unofficial data and eyewitness accounts about their "piece of war", there is practically nothing ...
    4. Lermontov
      0
      13 January 2013 19: 53
      What respect in the furnace such an article. First, let the author study the TTX S-200 and the operating modes of the FANTASER Rzhal until you drop.
  4. +26
    8 January 2013 11: 12
    I narrowed down just on this complex. The rocket is killer there. The author of the subject writes that one plane got almost at maximum range. So the range of the S-200 missile is 260 km!
    They shot at Sary-Shagan - God forbid, beating. Respect to the fighters, respect to Smolentsev.
    1. +2
      8 January 2013 11: 33
      A fighter maneuvering at 8-9g can shoot down?
      1. +17
        8 January 2013 13: 09
        Quote: Ivan Tarasov
        A fighter maneuvering at 8-9g can shoot down?

        - and the rocket is not designed for direct contact with such a maneuvering target. She has 90 kg of warheads in a shell with steel balls, it is enough to approach and be in a spatial ball with a radius of 100 m - and the target will be guaranteed to be hit.
        1. postman
          +3
          9 January 2013 13: 51
          Quote: aksakal
          She has 90 kg warhead in a shell with steel balls,

          S-200 (ALL MODIFICATIONS) weight of conventional warhead = 217 kg
          This is the weight of the explosive “TG-20/80” about 90kg ..
          Quote: aksakal
          to be in a spatial ball with a radius of 100 m

          More precisely, a sphere with "cut" cones along the track and against the flight.
      2. Beltar
        +3
        9 January 2013 01: 09
        Not every fighter can do this.
        1. Denzel13
          0
          9 January 2013 12: 20
          Especially with a full combat load.
    2. Fox
      +4
      8 January 2013 12: 01
      Quote: aksakal
      Sary-Shagan was shot

      I was there in 1991 ... a beautiful sight - night shooting with -300 and s-200. impressive!
    3. postman
      0
      9 January 2013 12: 57
      Quote: aksakal
      The author of the subject writes that one plane got almost at maximum range.

      Do not enlighten at what distance "got"? And what modification?
  5. +11
    8 January 2013 11: 34
    An excellent article showing that even outdated S-200 systems are in the right hands a formidable weapon !!!
    1. +4
      8 January 2013 15: 52
      At that time it was all in all - super duper !!!!
      And now you can shoot chickens, if necessary.
  6. 755962
    +4
    8 January 2013 12: 20
    I’m already tired of writing about my Kichigino on the site ..... But I’m writing ... and I hope that someday .. if not the S-200, then there will be a better thread. The former military air defense base. Left in 1991-94.
    Координаты: 59°4'41"N 40°6'30"E
    1. Eric
      +1
      8 January 2013 13: 36
      It is possible in more detail what you wanted to say, I obviously missed it!
      1. 755962
        +1
        8 January 2013 20: 46
        Near Vologda stood at \ h 83278. Abandoned bunkers of military unit 83278 near Vologda The S-200 regiment of military unit 83278 was stationed near Vologda in 1967-1992, and included 3 fire and radio technical divisions. At the moment, the state is depressing, but some infrastructure is still preserved.
        [img]http://wikimapia.org/#lat=59.0710735&lon=40.0902352&z=15&l=1&m=b&v=8[/img]

        http://veteranpvo.narod.ru/83278_poziziya_120311/index_190311.html
  7. +7
    8 January 2013 12: 35
    The models were mainly Italian and French. They are beautifully made from durable rubber coated with metallic paint. The compressor turned on - and a minute later a radar station was in position, guiding with a rocket or tank. Moreover, their characteristics in terms of size, radiation spectrum and many others completely corresponded to real weapons. The dummy tanks in the engine area even had a special heating unit that imitated the operation of the engine ... - recall last year's articles about Know How

    article is unexpected! liked! but whatever one may say, the S-200 is no longer quite relevant, in view of its sedentary mobility - although the complex itself is a worthy and formidable weapon! Especially with JBF against group goals)))))
    as a child I saw on live positions from a meter (of course, not a launch, but rather a static exposure - the missiles were on alert))) - the impressions were huge - the S-75 complex rocket was attached to it like a toy ...

  8. +20
    8 January 2013 12: 49
    That's probably because of the air defense and they are afraid to climb into the glimpse of Syria, glory to the air defense officers !! smile
    1. +38
      8 January 2013 17: 29
      Quote: Locksmith
      That's probably because of the air defense and they are afraid to climb into the glimpse of Syria, glory to the air defense officers !!


      "British scientists conducted a series of experiments and concluded that the lack of reliable air defense in the country inevitably leads to democracy."
      1. +3
        9 January 2013 14: 29
        For Skating rink, + to you for your discovery in science laughing
        1. Denzel13
          +2
          9 January 2013 14: 42
          Nominate Igor - Skating rink on the Nobel laughing
          1. +3
            9 January 2013 17: 04
            Quote: Denzel13
            Nominate Igor - Skating rink on the Nobel laughing


            : D Thank you, kaneshno! only I have nothing to do with it - it's all British scientists ....
            1. Denzel13
              +2
              9 January 2013 19: 18
              Igor come on, don’t refuse! laughing How do you get a bonus?
              1. +2
                9 January 2013 19: 32
                Agreed! drinks
      2. Che
        Che
        0
        10 January 2013 07: 53
        Rink,
        Where is our air defense? Alas ,,, Natofascists rub their hands. Gorby happily survives in Germany, EBN - a monument already.
        1. +1
          10 January 2013 15: 14
          Che, I don’t know where our air defense is, honestly.
          Yes, and you can not give the coordinates of the installation settings on the forum, this is wrong.

          I would like to think that Russia is drawing the right conclusions from small local wars, the General Staff is analyzing their combat experience and the experience of using our equipment. And proceeding from this, they perform the modernization of old equipment and issue tasks for the development of new ones.

          It’s clear that there was a difficult period in the history of the country and devastation, which can only be compared with the post-war period. It is clear that it is difficult to restore the aircraft and air defense in a short time.

          But it seems that everything that is possible (and a little more) in this direction is being done.
    2. +2
      9 January 2013 14: 28
      Greetings to all, Happy New Year forum users. For Locksmith, they’re not sure, but certainly they’re not climbing, because the air defense there is good
  9. Mikado
    +1
    8 January 2013 12: 57
    However, not a single "Geleksi" was lost during the entire war. There is only one aircraft crash during takeoff at an airbase in Germany before Desert Storm.
    1. +51
      8 January 2013 13: 20
      Quote: Mikado
      However, not a single "Geleksi" was lost during the entire war. There is only one aircraft crash during takeoff at an airbase in Germany before Desert Storm.

      - When I read the reports from the battles in 91, I was very surprised why these helicopters and planes, which did not fall at all in peacetime, suddenly begin to fall heavily during hostilities. As far as I remember, in Iraq, not a single plane was lost from air defense (as it were), but for some reason a lot of them fell due to technical malfunctions, which for some reason do not exist in such numbers in peacetime. Every day, three times: "during the hostilities in Iraq, a helicopter (plane) was lost. According to Fox News, the disaster was due to a technical malfunction of this aircraft (as an option, an error in piloting)" And not a single one lost from air defense - )))). Something I do not believe in a sharp - by orders of magnitude - increase in technical faults of amerskoy equipment at the time of the active phase of hostilities. Why did Kravchenko (or Kuchma, I don't remember exactly) dodge, make excuses and run around as a naughty little boy after such "technical malfunctions"? Is it no longer "Kolchuga" to blame? Why, after the "technical" refusals of the Abrams, the States, in a rage, impose sanctions against the Kolomna plant - the very one that was headed by the great Shipunov and Gryazev? You would have believed more amerskoy propaganda - the ears are clearly sticking out in the form of raids and sanctions, how much in vain -)))
      1. alex popov
        +17
        8 January 2013 13: 35
        Quote: aksakal
        When I read 91 reports from the battles, I was very surprised why helicopters and planes that didn’t fall at all in peacetime suddenly begin to fall heavily during the fighting

        Yes, this is normal. Information war in its purest form. aimed at maintaining the spirit of their troops and suppressing aliens. The same is with "non-combat losses" among personnel. ))
        1. Oleg Rosskiyy
          +5
          8 January 2013 14: 26
          alex popov,
          A double-edged sword, they made themselves anti-advertising of their military equipment, it turns out their military equipment is only suitable for showing at exhibitions, and in a combat situation it immediately fails, but in principle, like their soldiers, they mount ammunition and go menacingly to the garrison and then they’re afraid to stick their nose out of there.
          1. alex popov
            0
            9 January 2013 19: 18
            All the same, I would not write all Americans in "ceremonial militants". I remember that in the late 90s "our partners" came to ours in the late XNUMXs, I will not lie, I don’t remember exactly if there was anyone else "green berets". They then participated in "lightning", the so-called "races". They made quite a pleasant impression for themselves, although they lost to our control time.
            1. Denzel13
              0
              9 January 2013 19: 33
              You are right and they have "swift deer" laughing
        2. Mikado
          0
          8 January 2013 14: 59
          It is nonsense. Imagine, you, Private John, are fighting in Iraq, and they report to you on a political occupation, such a plane wasn’t shot down, but crashed due to a technical malfunction, and the guys from the neighboring brigade burned down in the tank, because the shell simply detonated, and not because in an unequal battle he received 5 hits from an RPG, and immediately the fighting spirit of all the fighters increased, well, at least it didn’t fall, yes, because how about it, it's just those. malfunction, not scary))) Believe me, it’s much more effective for the fighting spirit of soldiers, it would be to say that the plane crashed as a result of some unequal battle, that the soldiers are all heroes on it, because they fought fifteen s-200 missiles, and not the sixteenth of cartridges was not enough than to fill in that your comrades died due to some kind of misoperation.
          1. +12
            8 January 2013 16: 02
            Quote: Mikado
            It is nonsense. Imagine, you, Private John, are fighting in Iraq, and they report to you on a political occupation, such a plane wasn’t shot down, but crashed due to a technical malfunction, and the guys from the neighboring brigade burned down in the tank, because the shell simply detonated, and not because in an unequal battle he received 5 hits from an RPG, and immediately the fighting spirit of all the fighters increased, well, at least it didn’t fall, yes, because how about it, it's just those. malfunction, not scary)))

            - Mikado, the fact that they are rubbing their soldiers in political activities is not for our ears, we don’t know this and it’s not interesting for us. The reason for the lies on a large scale in terms of losses is, alas, commercial. Yes, for the effective sale of their equipment, which should remain the best and completely invulnerable to the weapons of the closest competitors (I forgot who the closest competitor is in second place in export?). This is the main reason for concealing losses. Although the reasons you mentioned below as a result of the intensive development of the resource of military equipment during the hostilities take place, here I agree with you, but not by orders of magnitude, not dozens of times for sure. In addition, the approaching end of the development of the resource is easily diagnosed, it’s not first-graders-schoolchildren who actually fight, but if so, they simply do not take off in a helicopter, which has any suspicious signs and goes on a combat mission in a tank in which such signs too. Put me on a tank - on the basis of many years of exploiting my own horse, I can sense that something is wrong in the tank, I generally keep quiet about professional tankers. So I admit doubling, even tripling of losses due to malfunctions, but not immediately tenfold.
            1. Mikado
              -2
              8 January 2013 22: 17
              Quote: aksakal
              Mikado, the fact that they rub their soldiers on political activities is not for our ears, we don’t know this and it’s not interesting for us


              and political activities are not the only source of information, especially in the American army, where there is already wi-fi in every tent. Rumors are spreading at high speed and if one such one goes that the plane crashed not from hitting, but from engine failure, today it’s one, tomorrow it’s different, then in the American army with its democracy, the day after tomorrow no pilot will agree to fly on this plane, sits in this tank or shoot from this type of weapon, remember the M-16, in Afghanistan, ordinary Americans are still trying to exchange their M-4 for Kalash. About the benefits of commerce is nonsense. Such PR specialists work there, to which we are far from you. Would take the wreckage of this downed plane, make it more shrapnel holes for it and say that it could withstand 10 missiles and only fall on the 11th and that’s all, you couldn’t imagine a better advertisement for the equipment or twenty more RPG hits would be hit and then exhibited in the museum, as an example of the genius of American military thought, the next day they would line up of their sixes. The problem is that they don’t need it, they all have a turn for weapons from their sixes, which no one will ever allow to buy anything else. So the reason for hiding losses, if any, is far from commerce and morale.
              1. postman
                0
                9 January 2013 12: 18
                Quote: Mikado
                where in every tent there is wi-fi.

                You think correctly, and then only wi-fi (just "born), 3G / UMTS and others did not exist then /
                GPRS, EDGE were, but the end user did not have a decent periphery.
                And the Internet was in its "conception" (1990 - the first connection to the dial-up network)

                But to attribute military losses to non-military ones was foolish and it would be unlikely that anyone would engage.

                Here, insurance payments and reimbursement played a greater role.
              2. Che
                Che
                0
                10 January 2013 08: 00
                Mikado,
                All the media are under control, vparivat what you want. They do everything.
          2. +8
            8 January 2013 19: 06
            there they are so brainwashed that our political officers are resting! remember Georgia, the whole world hung noodles on the ears, that we attacked!
            1. +4
              9 January 2013 00: 58
              Quote: pinachet
              there they are so brainwashed that our political officers are resting! remember Georgia, the whole world hung noodles on the ears, that we attacked!
              - in my opinion, they are not washed at all, but trained to automatism. As far as I understand, amerskoe psychologists came to the conclusion that it is unnatural for a chela to kill someone like that, but somehow it is necessary to force it ... Exit - at training grounds and shooting ranges they train a soldier, make him not think according to the principle "if not you - then he's you! ", the rifle jumps up and the trigger is pressed faster than the brain thinks. But all this deed is still deposited in the subconscious, then, after the hostilities, it returns with nightmares ... Vietnamese syndrome? Below is a purely my guess, this question still needs to be investigated by specialists, such as those who discovered the Stockholm syndrome, pity for their tormentor.
              In childhood and youth, I met a lot with veterans of the Great Patriotic War, but every May 9 they came to school and met, talked, remembered. You can’t see this windy on May 9th, and if you see, then you won’t get to him in order to give your bouquet. And with the Afghans as well. I was wondering why it was precisely the Soviet Union veterans of the Second World War who were surprisingly healthy people, although they went through the same, but no, greater hell than the Amer Vietnamese? And no syndromes ... Much more sick - forgive me, those who fought in Afghanistan, many had serious mental trauma, applied to the bottle from the heart.
              My guess is hatred of the Germans! I think that this is just normal - when you kill, you must hate what you kill, and for such hatred you must have good reason. Against the Nazis there were such reasons, and more than good ones. Against the Vietnamese, the Amers didn’t have them. They killed without hatred, just ordered. And then - not hatred, a much dirtier feeling - a thirst for revenge for the murdered colleague. In Afghanistan, the same thing. It was precisely hatred that saved the soul of our fighters - veterans of the Great Patriotic War.
              But since there is no technology right now to cause sincere hatred, but it is necessary to force someone to kill, it is necessary for state interests (well, or other interests that are given out as state interests, it does not matter), and at the same time show a certain resilience - so you need to train it to automatism and methods of psychological hardening - to a certain extent, any chelas can be hardened. The fact that then such a trained soldier will crawl out sideways, in the form of nightmares and other things - this is already the problem of that veteran.
              Not a psychologist, just personal observations. WWII veterans were surprisingly healthy people. How can you stay so healthy after such a hell? Here is my version, I don’t have another.
              And about the Mikado post above - also my answer to him. They don’t have any political activities, they train like fighting dogs, that’s all for a short time.
          3. alex popov
            0
            9 January 2013 09: 30
            As far as I remember, the data on losses in equipment and hp. they were not advertised among the personnel at political studies. All the more real. If they are known to anyone, it is to a very narrow circle of high-ranking military and civilians. And so, IMHO, there is no need to explain WHY real losses are one, and others are voiced. Those who were present at the death of their comrades do not need to "fill in" anything. We saw everything ourselves. And to fill in that instead of the promised easy walk of 15 s-200 missiles per plane .... it's more expensive. And the "neighbors" do not even need to know about this. For neighbors and the public, official press releases. For those who are "smart" and can compare the losses in their part and the rainbow data on the other, there are all kinds of nondisclosure subscriptions and so on.
            In general, staff rotation and insurance payments are one of the main means of replenishing morale in a hired army.
        3. 0
          12 January 2013 14: 30
          Quote: alex popov
          with "non-combat losses" among the personnel. ))

          Swine flu.
          Today in the news in the usa is the flu epidemic. A lot of deaths. I still thought - they got into it somewhere.
      2. Mikado
        0
        8 January 2013 14: 53
        Quote: aksakal
        As far as I remember, in Iraq not a single plane was lost from air defense (as it were)


        Remember badly, here is a list of official losses during Desert Storm and their causes, the overwhelming majority of reasons - the destruction of air defense systems, MANPADS, air-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft artillery fire.

        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BA_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D

        1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%9C%D0%BD%D

        0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%

        8B%D1%85_%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BB_%D0%B2_%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5_%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%B9%D

        0%BD%D1%8B_%D0%B2_%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B4%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC_%

        D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B5

        Quote: aksakal
        but for some reason a bunch of them fell due to technical malfunctions, which for some reason in peacetime do not happen in such numbers


        Non-combat losses for various reasons always increase in wartime. This happens not only among Americans, but also in any army, they begin to monitor TB less, they pay less attention to this, while the development of the resource of equipment sharply increases. If in peacetime you had so many hours of "use" of technology, then in wartime it increases, therefore the number of failures on this technology also increases. Sanitary losses also increase, compare the losses due to illness in the armies in peacetime and in wartime.

        Quote: aksakal
        Something I do not believe in a sharp — by orders of magnitude — increase in the technical inconsistencies of Amer’s equipment at the time of the active phase of hostilities.


        You do not need to believe this, it is a logical question, the more technology they use, the more failures it will issue.

        Quote: aksakal
        Would you believe amer propaganda more


        We are all intelligent people, I hope we can separate the grains from the chaff, where propaganda is and where not. It’s stupid, expensive and pointless to hide that a plane of this size was not shot down, but crashed at a base in Germany for a thousand kilometers, while recognizing the military losses of other planes.
        1. alex popov
          +4
          9 January 2013 09: 44
          Quote: Mikado
          Remember badly, here is a list of official losses during Desert Storm and their causes, the overwhelming majority of reasons - the destruction of air defense systems, MANPADS, air-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft artillery fire.

          You need to trust the official data with caution. Combat losses and non-combat losses are reported in different reports and are counted differently. Even according to the data you provided (by the way, the link does not work), if you add "official non-combat losses" here, the picture will be completely different. In general, in general, the American-style war looks like this: "an ultra-modern missile for $ 125 million was launched from an ultra-modern carrier for $ 9 million, which destroyed a field tent for $ 30." wink
          This is pure information warfare and commercial interests.
      3. +7
        8 January 2013 15: 17
        I don’t presume to judge whether Geleksi was lost or not, but the "flying battery" was created by amers on the basis of the C-130. This is AS-130 "Spectrum", in common parlance - "Ganship". I think that this is about him, tk. Gelexi is a transport worker. I did not see the data that of them the gunship riveted. Although everything is possible, and the transport worker could also get lost.
        I liked the article. There is something to think about.
      4. +16
        8 January 2013 17: 48
        Quote: aksakal
        ... According to Fox News, the crash occurred due to a technical malfunction of this aircraft (as an option - an error in piloting) "...

        They are telling the truth, you just do not understand the word.
        There was a malfunction of the plane, it was caused by an anti-aircraft missile hit - here the plane crashed, but fell already technically faulty.
        There was a pilot error too. The pilot relaxed, came under anti-aircraft fire, and also could not perform the anti-aircraft maneuver - these are his obvious mistakes.

        As a result, a failed NATO plane is ... nullified in the desert.
        Just read the western press correctly .....

        :)
      5. postman
        0
        9 January 2013 11: 58
        Quote: aksakal

        - When I read 91 reports from the battles, I was very surprised why these are absolutely no helicopters and airplanes falling in peacetime

        How many sorties in peacetime and in war?
        Flight conditions?
        Landmarks (locality)?
        Terms of Service?
        Stressful condition?
        === Here is the answer.
      6. 0
        23 March 2018 15: 31
        The author was mistaken in the type of aircraft. On the basis of the S-5, ganships were not produced. But in Iraq one AC-130N gunship was really shot down. This is like the An-12. Google confirms.
    2. +1
      8 January 2013 13: 53
      Of course, "they" are also silent about the downed F-117, not the downed (in a single number) F-117. We haven't reached B-2 yet, but it's still ... Skazono about the war in Serbia.
    3. Denzel13
      +4
      8 January 2013 14: 45
      The loss of multinational forces in Iraq 1991:
      USA
      Aircraft - 9 lost before the war, 37 during it, 5 after
      Helicopters - 15 lost before the war, 22 during it, 7 after
      Great Britain - 3 aircraft before the war, 7 during it; Before the war, one helicopter was lost.
      France - 1 plane before the war and 1 during it
      Italy - 1 plane during the war
      Saudi Arabia - 3 aircraft during the war and 1 after
      Kuwait - 1 aircraft during the war
      TOTAL aviation of the Multinational Force lost:
      In total, 114 manned aircraft (69 aircraft and 45 helicopters) were lost during the entire period under review, 29 of them before the war, 72 during and 13 after it.

      This is what Americans have recognized.

      Iraq
      According to official Iraqi documents (the documents were internal and were seized by the Americans in 2003), during Desert Storm, the irrecoverable losses of the national air force were as follows:
      JetStar - 4
      AS-202 Bravo - 5
      BK-117 - 1
      EMB 312 "Tucano" - 1
      IL-76 - 3
      "Mirage" F1 - 25, including 2 trophy Kuwaiti
      MiG-21 - 65, including 9 double
      MiG-23 - 43, including 18 fighters, 17 fighter-bombers MiG-23BN and 8 two-seat combat training
      MiG-25 - 19, including 13 interceptors, 3 scouts, 3 double
      MiG-29 - 17, including 1 double
      Su-20/22 - 24, including 4 Su-20, 17 single Su-22 and 3 double
      Su-24 - 5
      Su-25 - 31, including 3 double combat training
      Tu-16 - 7, including 3 Soviet-made aircraft and 4 Chinese (B-6D)

      In total, 250 manned aircraft were destroyed, including 249 aircraft and 1 helicopter (BK-117). This amounted to a quarter of all available aircraft. Of these, 44 aircraft were lost in the air, the rest on earth.
      1. +3
        8 January 2013 18: 43
        I had such data. Recently saw a movie there, the commander of the US Air Force heading the Air Force international forces at a time admitted the loss of 51 aircraft from enemy actions.

        "Desert Storm" August 2, 1990 - February 28, 1991

        Aircraft
        Tornado 9
        F-16 10
        A-10 6
        AV-8B 6
        A-6 4
        F / A-18 3
        F-15E 3
        OV-10 2
        A-4 1
        AC-130 1
        B-52 1 Strategic Bomber
        C-5 1 Transport
        F-4 / RF-4 2
        F-5 1
        F-14 1
        F-111 / EF-111 2 Tactical Long Range Bomber
        Jaguar 1
        Total: 54 aircraft

        Helicopters
        UH-60 / MH-60 / SH-60 6
        UH-1 5
        AH-1 1
        CH-46 1
        OH-58 1
        Total: 14 Helicopter
        1. Denzel13
          +1
          9 January 2013 12: 29
          Quote: Sith Lord
          I had such data.


          I can give exhaustive data for each officially shot down aircraft with the date, time, reasons, crew name, aircraft serial number.

          It’s just that the Americans themselves were confused for a very long time with the data on losses. And their different sources gave out different numbers. In the end, it was precisely the data indicated by me above that were officially accepted. Sincerely. hi
        2. avt
          0
          9 January 2013 20: 02
          S-5 in the form of ganship is of course too much, there wasn’t such a thing and it makes no sense. But the AC-130 really has a 105mm barrel parallel to the wings on the left side, and something else, even in Vietnam this amership bungled those who have practically no air defense, so it seems to fit into the numbers of Lord Sith.
      2. +2
        8 January 2013 19: 13
        And about SU and MiG, many of them were transferred to Iran.

        Mig-29 35 units distilled to Iran
        Su-24MK 24 units distilled to Iran
        Su-25 7 units distilled to Iran
        "Mirage" F1 10 units distilled to Iran
      3. alex popov
        +1
        9 January 2013 09: 48
        Quote: Denzel13
        In total, 250 manned aircraft were destroyed, including 249 aircraft and 1 helicopter (BK-117). This amounted to a quarter of all available aircraft. Of these, 44 aircraft were lost in the air, the rest on earth.

        Here. the most important thing. The list of enemy losses includes ALL lost equipment: destroyed, abandoned, defective, and so on. Only "irrefutable combat losses" are on their list. )))
        1. Denzel13
          +1
          9 January 2013 12: 51
          Quote: alex popov
          only "irrefutable combat losses". )))


          Alexander is not quite right, there are so many “non-combat” reasons for the loss of aircraft - either a technical failure, sometimes lost in a dust storm, or some other garbage - in general, typical American attempts to hide combat losses. I already wrote that I have data on every officially lost aircraft with date, time, reason, names of crew members, aircraft serial numbers. The volume is just large, it won't fit into posts. There is also information from the Iraqi side about the downed NATO aircraft, which significantly exceed the officially recognized US 281 aircraft, but the truth, as they say, is somewhere in between.
          Based on all the data that I studied subjectively, I believe that multinational forces have lost about 200 units. This conclusion is made on the following grounds:
          US Air Force losses do not take into account the fact that 44 out of 19 UAVs were lost + fleet aviation also used their ADM-141 UAVs, which were not taken into account anywhere. In addition, a number of Western sources concealed a significant number of losses of manned aircraft, re-qualifying them as unmanned (the fate of the latter is much more difficult to track, they could simply be written off at the end of the resource)
          1. Denzel13
            0
            9 January 2013 13: 18
            Quote: Denzel13
            loss of 44 UAVs out of 19 available


            Sorry, you should read from 49 available.
          2. alex popov
            +1
            9 January 2013 19: 14
            Alexander is not quite so ...

            did not quite understand.54 The submarine was declared lost as a result of hostilities. Listed in statistics and officially recognized. It is the same data that is compared with the enemy's losses: 54 against 250? At the same time, 54 does not include "non-combat losses", but 250 include? Or am I confusing something?
            1. Denzel13
              0
              9 January 2013 19: 27
              No, not like that. Officially, they recognized 114 manned aircraft (I already wrote there is a list with numbers, etc.) they did not include drones (UAVs) in this list. They lost 44 of the 49 available from the Air Force. The fleet also used, but their data was not published. So, a number of their sources, the Pentagon accused, that having shown large UAV losses, actually wrote them off (or else did something to them), and under the guise of UAV losses, additional manned aircraft were written off in cases where the crew was saved (i.e., the aircraft actually damaged, crashed somewhere, the crew was rescued and thought it was the loss of a UAV). UAVs were not included in the list of losses, that’s an improvement in statistics. Apparently out of the blue, such conversations arose.
  10. +9
    8 January 2013 13: 02
    And there * Humpbacked shit, horseradish laureate, but not everyone obeyed the degeneral
  11. DmitriRazumov
    +11
    8 January 2013 13: 06
    In Yugoslavia, too, one lieutenant colonel with a 200-hundredth squad shot down an "invisible" F 117. This proves that any technical solutions are tested only in combat conditions, and not on advertising firing and theoretical calculations. It seems that although NATO has advanced in the development of the latest weapons, while we were "rebuilding", but most of them will not pass the test of battle with a serious enemy. Therefore, now in Syria they are slowing down, they are afraid to receive confirmation of the non-combat ability of their toys, for which. taxpayers paid trillions.
    1. +4
      8 January 2013 14: 14
      As you are right ... And from what America has done, we need to draw an adequate conclusion on building our own air defense system and missile defense! bully
    2. +1
      8 January 2013 14: 40
      oh - hell breaks his leg there - they knocked him down with Buk, they also said that the S-75, and the Mig-29th, - although Buk is more suitable for that time, because the stationary systems were pretty knocked out by then, and C- 200 tried to destroy in the first place .... honestly - I have not heard and closely about the participation of the 200s
      1. +4
        9 January 2013 01: 27
        Only BEECH was not taken from where, there was not him
        1. Alex 241
          +2
          9 January 2013 01: 32
          It’s just that in the news they blurted out about beeches, I remember that for sure, I was still surprised.
        2. +1
          9 January 2013 01: 33
          Quote: mehanik27

          Only beech was there to take

          I heard about the CUB in Shock Force
          1. Alex 241
            +4
            9 January 2013 01: 36
            There’s nothing to be surprised at! Our journalists voice the height in feet as in kilometers!
            1. +5
              9 January 2013 02: 01
              Quote: Alex 241
              Our journalists voiced the height in feet as in kilometers!

              Here you go, fools! We need something in pounds !!! laughing
              1. Alex 241
                +2
                9 January 2013 02: 09
                ......................................................
          2. +1
            9 January 2013 02: 05
            but the CUBE yes .. only the CUBE and BEECH are different things, although the opportunity to dock them was realized.
            1. Alex 241
              0
              9 January 2013 02: 10
              If I am not mistaken the BUK in the export version of SQUARE,
              1. +3
                9 January 2013 02: 11
                Not only are you mistaken, but also forgot about the logic))) CUB-SQUARE .... SQUARE is an export CUBE
                1. Alex 241
                  0
                  9 January 2013 02: 13
                  Guilty, I turned off my head. laughing
            2. 0
              9 January 2013 02: 13
              Quote: mehanik27
              although the ability to dock them was realized.

              That is, the battery is expanding, and in it is 1 BEECH, the rest are CUBs?
              1. +3
                9 January 2013 02: 16
                Well, yes, the standard KUB battery includes the BUK self-propelled firing system. The so-called KUB M4 air defense system. To a certain extent, the Cube-M4 has become a transitional option between the Cube air defense system being removed from service and the Buk complex arriving to replace it.
                1. +2
                  9 January 2013 02: 25
                  I felt the BEECH, but the CUBES, the current on TV. And in Russia the CUBES were removed from service, don’t you know? Something and nothing is heard about them.
                  1. +1
                    9 January 2013 02: 29
                    Oh yes you answered above .... I did not notice
                  2. Alex 241
                    +1
                    9 January 2013 02: 29
                    Lesh withdrawn from service. Production discontinued.
                    1. +1
                      9 January 2013 02: 30
                      Quote: Thunderbolt

                      Guilty, I turned off my head.
                      1. Alex 241
                        +1
                        9 January 2013 02: 31
                        You can today Lesh drinks laughing
                  3. +3
                    9 January 2013 02: 41
                    CUBs remained at the storage bases, before the reform they taught at foreign schools, and the TORs and OSs came to replace them.
          3. 0
            13 January 2013 06: 30
            Yes - a mistake - Cube or Square ...
    3. +3
      8 January 2013 20: 41
      All their vaunted technology can work when there is data from satellites. Hence, the complexity and reduced speed.
      And as for non-combat losses in aviation, it is necessary to install Japanese components on electronics, not Chinese ...
    4. +2
      9 January 2013 00: 10
      In Yugoslavia, S-125. They still celebrate this event every year.
    5. dmn2
      +2
      9 January 2013 01: 17
      In Yugoslavia, too, one lieutenant colonel with a 200-hundredth division shot down an "invisible" F 117.

      not 200th, but 125th
    6. +3
      9 January 2013 01: 21
      Colonel Zoltan Dani commanded the 3rd battery of the 250th Air Defense Brigade and was armed with the S-125, but the photo on which he hugs with the pilot of this F 117, Dale Zelko (in red) ... draw your own conclusions.
      1. Alex 241
        +5
        9 January 2013 01: 27
        ..........................................
    7. postman
      +2
      9 January 2013 16: 04
      Quote: DmitriRazumov
      In Yugoslavia, too, one lieutenant colonel with a 200-hundredth squad shot down an "invisible" F 117

      Colonel's name was Zoltan Dani
      The battery he commanded shot down the F-117A, F-16C and damaged another 1n F-117A.
      True, it was not the S-200, but the S-125 "Pechora-M (?)" (NATO - SA-3 Goa)
      PU 5P73

      with ЗР 5В27Д.
      Found SNR-125M1T


      Zoltan and "his team" spent weeks training on simulators and constantly changing the position of the battery and exercising strict control (in accordance with the instructions for the power supply unit) on radar and infrared radiation.


      Professional, and this is considering that NATO began the operation APPLYING 743 units of AGM-88 HARM
  12. mnn_12
    +17
    8 January 2013 13: 12
    In Baghdad, a baby food plant, a dairy factory, and a pharmaceutical factory were bombed under the guise of "military targets". Now the same factory is being trashed next to us. Tomorrow it will be declared a "tank factory".

    I do not believe that these are military mistakes or bitterness of pilots. This systematic destruction of the country's infrastructure and economy is aimed at its full economic subjugation and capture of its resources. All subsequent events have damaged this.
    Similarly, they destroyed and plundered our industrial base but "peacefully".
    1. +8
      9 January 2013 13: 52
      In Libya, back in 1953, huge reserves of artesian water were found under the sands of the Sahara. The reserves were ~ 35000 km3. Before the civil war, the irrigation complex consisted of 1300 wells 500m deep, 4000 km of underground pipes with D = 4m, a system of pumping stations. , 6,5 million m3 of water. Africa would eventually stop starving and, in the future. Could export grain. Gaddafi had a source of which would be enough for more than one millennium. In order to "protect the civilian population" NATO aircraft bombed pumping stations and a plant on the production of concrete pipes ... I do not have enough words to assess the actions of SCUD.
      PS This "8 wonder of the world" (Gaddafi) is depicted on the Libyan 20 dinar banknote.
      1. mnn_12
        +5
        9 January 2013 14: 56
        Dear knn54,
        They are very well aware of what they are doing and why. This is a well-designed strategy and policy. Bombing pumping stations - where will the population buy water from and who will dictate the prices? Bombed pharmaceutical factories in Iraq? There will be no competition for imported pharmaceutical products. Destroyed infrastructure? It will restore through loans that will turn the country into a colony over the next 50 years, and maybe more ...
        And military pilots blame it all funny. These are disciplined people, they did what they were told.
        We had a production of milk for babies. Now not - we buy imported at prices many times more than was our own. There are many examples ...
      2. DmitriRazumov
        +1
        10 January 2013 16: 20
        Recently, I spoke with 2 majors of the Central House of Artists (reserve), they clearly say that there is a war for water in Libya. It is the only practically inexhaustible source of fresh water in the region. And whoever owns water there (not oil!) - he owns everything.
      3. 0
        12 January 2013 14: 46
        Back in the 80s, Gaddafi began a large-scale project to create a network of water resources, which was supposed to cover Libya, Egypt, Sudan and Chad. To date, this project has been almost completed. The task was, it must be said, historical for the entire North African region, because the water problem has been relevant here since the time of Phenicia. And, more importantly, on a project that could turn all of North Africa into a blooming garden, not a single cent was spent from the IMF.
  13. 8 company
    -31
    8 January 2013 13: 36
    The article, of course, is very interesting and instructive. The only thing that I did not understand was this phrase:

    If not for Gorbachev's betrayal, how could we "wash" these "Yankees and Companies" here!

    Iraq attacked Iran in the 80s, Kuwait in the 90s. This is an aggressor country, and it is not surprising that in the end she was punished. Anyone, even the most arrogant and strongest bully in the area, sooner or later gets a snout in full. This is the law of life.
    1. +25
      8 January 2013 14: 34
      Iraq is the aggressor, Yugoslavia is the aggressor, Libya is the aggressor, now Syria is the aggressor .... Russia in 08.08.08 is also an aggressor? Glorify the meek and humble USA, the peace-loving and caring NATO? fool YES ARE FUCKED ALREADY.
    2. +6
      8 January 2013 14: 36
      Quote: Company 8
      Iraq attacked Iran in the 80s

      And who supported Iraq then? Hour not country number 1
      1. 8 company
        -16
        8 January 2013 16: 07
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And who supported Iraq then? Hour not country number 1


        In my opinion, it was country number 2 that supported him the most. In Iraq, almost all Soviet weapons and equipment were. I read in the school "secret" reviews of the Iran-Iraq war, there was an analysis of the actions of the Iraqi army, which was clearly prepared by Soviet advisers. With an analysis of the tactics of action and the operation of Soviet military equipment.
        1. +8
          8 January 2013 16: 12
          Quote: Company 8
          In my opinion, just country number 2

          No, just then it was No. 1 and the reason for the Islamic revolution. The first attempt to work with the wrong hands. Hussein at that time was sitting on two chairs, but in the end he fell hi
          1. 8 company
            -7
            8 January 2013 18: 24
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            No, just then it was No. 1 and the reason for the Islamic revolution. The first attempt to work with the wrong hands. Hussein at that time was sitting on two chairs, but in the end he fell


            Well, you see, the United States, through Iraq and Soviet weapons, solved their problems, punished Iran. Plus, Iraq was supplied with so many Soviet weapons during the Soviet Union that it still owes $ 8,5 billion. And who is left in the cold? Iraq and the USSR. And the United States changed the Iraqi regime to a friendly one and will now cut coupons. Learn! wink
            1. +4
              8 January 2013 19: 15
              а What is learning meanness and lies! ???
              Russians are not like that !!!
              and as an example you don’t put them to us, how do you do it!
              1. 8 company
                -9
                8 January 2013 20: 43
                Quote: pinachet
                Russians are not like that !!!


                Oh, and I love these fiery virtual "heroes" who never lie, do not cheat, and the first to rise to the attack. In a virtual attack, of course. wink
                1. +1
                  9 January 2013 17: 33
                  do not judge by yourself!
            2. +5
              8 January 2013 21: 39
              learn to be scum traitors and scum ???? why do we need to learn this?
              1. 8 company
                -3
                9 January 2013 10: 43
                Quote: tomket
                learn to be scum traitors and scum ???? why do we need to learn this?


                It's funny that when it comes to Stalin, our pseudo-patriotic Stalinists yell: we don't give a damn about morality, hunger, camps and executions, because the leader carried out industrialization and won the war !!!! And when it comes to Saddam, completely different cries begin: the guard, attacked our Saddam, where is the moral and morality ??? !!! winked
                1. vyatom
                  +2
                  9 January 2013 12: 10
                  In any case, this is an internal Iraqi affair, not NATO. And you "8th company" is still a figaro.
                2. 0
                  10 January 2013 10: 10
                  As far as I remember, the Yankees were looking for atomic weapons in Iraq and the Britons were looking for oil that they had taken away and along with them chemical ammunition,
              2. +1
                10 January 2013 08: 32
                In politics, there is no concept of scum and traitors. In politics, there are only their own interests.
            3. Che
              Che
              +2
              10 January 2013 08: 21
              8 company,
              Purely Jewish policy, disdain to greet such people.
        2. Alexander 1958
          +7
          8 January 2013 16: 33
          For company 8
          So yes, the weapon was Soviet, but Iraq fought for American interests and it was not the USSR that helped it, but the USA, England and France. And weapons and advisers and intelligence
          Alexander 1958
      2. Che
        Che
        0
        10 January 2013 08: 19
        Alexander Romanov,
        Amer then pitted Iraq with Iran. However, this is their eternal policy.
    3. +5
      8 January 2013 14: 37
      Well, he was kind of given a carte blanche of UWB given to the war))))) and then thrown .....
    4. +5
      8 January 2013 15: 09
      Do you think Iraq "deserves" to be destroyed? And the psi are the angels of retribution? Your opinion is a complete atrophy of the thinking abilities of the brain. Replenish the list of sites you read with sites that more objectively illuminate reality. And it’s not far from falling into paranoia ... Excuse me for being frank ...
    5. orfo
      +1
      8 January 2013 15: 15
      in the first case, the United States did not care, because the Iranians turned their backs on them. Kuwait did not pass, the interests of the United States affected.
    6. +2
      8 January 2013 19: 11
      yeah, they just attacked like that ... you are a typical representative of a victim of Western propaganda !!
      open your eyes, look at the world wider!
      here you have the Internet .. look at the causes of the war, not only the Pentagon website, but also in other places !!
      1. +1
        8 January 2013 21: 41
        but in his eyes it’s clear that he’s ready to fall to his knees and through tears to kiss the star-striped chupachups, in the same place there are the smartest most humane and most humane people, pah angels there,
  14. +4
    8 January 2013 13: 40
    "Civilized" "decent" "cultural" people plunged a developed country into the Stone Age and wreaked havoc. BRITA RUSSIANS do not throw us (Belarusians), or even we will have memories. We will not be able to resist these (cultural) ones ourselves.
  15. +1
    8 January 2013 13: 42
    aksakal Today, 13:20 ↑ ↓ 3
    Quote: Mikado
    However, not a single "Geleksi" was lost during the entire war. There is only one aircraft crash during takeoff at an airbase in Germany before Desert Storm.

    - When I read the reports from the battles in 91, I was very surprised why these helicopters and planes, which did not fall at all in peacetime, suddenly begin to fall heavily during hostilities. As far as I remember, in Iraq, not a single plane was lost from air defense (as it were), but for some reason a lot of them fell due to technical malfunctions, which for some reason do not exist in such numbers in peacetime. Every day, three times: "during the hostilities in Iraq, a helicopter (plane) was lost. According to Fox News, the disaster was due to a technical malfunction of this aircraft (as an option, an error in piloting)" And not a single one lost from air defense - )))). Something I do not believe in a sharp - by orders of magnitude - increase in technical faults of amerskoy equipment at the time of the active phase of hostilities. Why did Kravchenko (or Kuchma, I don't remember exactly) dodge, make excuses and run around as a naughty little boy after such "technical malfunctions"? Is it no longer "Kolchuga" to blame? Why, after the "technical" refusals of the Abrams, the States, in a rage, impose sanctions against the Kolomna plant - the very one that was headed by the great Shipunov and Gryazev? You would have believed more amerskoy propaganda - the ears are clearly sticking out in the form of raids and sanctions, how much in vain -)))

    That's all right, they still have a token of loss of l / s to scatter around the world too, leaving not much for combat hi
    1. +1
      8 January 2013 21: 43
      so if they recognize losses, then ktozh their planes will buy then ??? in their prospectus it is still claimed that not a single f-16 was shot down in aerial combat
      1. 0
        10 January 2013 15: 05
        Quote: tomket
        they still claim in a handout that no f-16 was shot down in aerial combat


        F-15
  16. +5
    8 January 2013 14: 01
    Glory to air defense, and respect for scientists soldier
    1. +4
      8 January 2013 16: 09
      Quote: s500
      Glory to air defense, and respect for scientists



      What do we have at the end? At the present stage, it is necessary to overcome the bias in education towards lawyers, economists and "effective managers". Russia needs to revive Higher military educational institutions and an engineering school.
      1. +1
        10 January 2013 15: 07
        Quote: Alan
        At the present stage, it is necessary to overcome the bias in education towards lawyers, economists and "effective managers". Russia needs to revive Higher military educational institutions and an engineering school.


        Engineers with high school diplomas have also produced enough. In Russia, there is an acute shortage of skilled labor (turners, welders, locksmiths).

        In general, in a well-organized country, all professions are needed
  17. +8
    8 January 2013 16: 01
    "Eight hours before the first raid, the coalition began electronic suppression. The newest NATO systems almost completely blocked the air and cut off the frequencies of the radar transmitting and receiving frequencies. Everything was" blind "and" deaf. " another. ".... excellent point ... ours strive to completely switch to digital ... do not rush to cut and scrap old time-tested analog communication systems.
    1. +7
      8 January 2013 16: 31
      let us move everything is duplicated by wire.
      personal example from air defense ..
      in training from the "big radar" to our division, the data was transferred via communication ..., and when it worked badly (as usual), everything went along its own wires))))
    2. 0
      9 January 2013 12: 32
      Quote: Strashila
      Apart from the wired connection, no other was active. ".... excellent remark ... ours strive to completely switch to digital ... do not rush to cut and scrap old time-tested analog communication systems.

      What a terrible thing you all mixed up digital communications versus wired communications, due to the fact that analog radars and radio communications were suppressed by interference.
      Digital radio communication has endless avoidance of interference (ideally). And wires (or fiber) will always be where you need reliability and protection from third-party connections (do not use WiFi, your network will be hacked in a maximum of 2 hours, from a possible distance of 1 km, with a standard home WiFi adapter with an antenna like "tin can from under pineapple rings "and CD" BackTrack ").
  18. +1
    8 January 2013 16: 25
    if we had helped Iraq at least a quarter (from Vietnamese) then everything would have been different.
    1. smprofi
      +4
      8 January 2013 17: 43
      Quote: pinachet
      if we were even a quarter

      how can I tell you ... the weapons in Iraq were pretty Soviet. and not only Soviet. Saddam did not spare money for the same air defense system (the most serious in the region). only here with holes (see the comment below) it turned out.
      in addition, strictly speaking, from the Arabs, the warriors, especially in particular the Air Defense Forces, are nikiy.
      my father taught at the Academy for foreigners, including. by his rank:
      - The most serious practices were Vietnamese. Well this is not surprising: everyone has a gringo war. in theory, trochs were rather weak.
      - the most versatile well-trained - the GDR. were. perhaps a little worse treated in real life with "iron" in comparison with the Vietnamese.
      - further Czechs, Poles, Hungarians. So. not particularly good, but not entirely missing.
      - the latter: Arabs. From any country!
      1. +1
        8 January 2013 18: 49
        so I'm not talking about technology, I mean people.
        1. smprofi
          +2
          8 January 2013 19: 28
          Quote: pinachet
          About people meant.

          hmm ... do you know that there were Afghan anti-aircraft gunners in Vietnam? not for long, true, but there were. they helped with the gringos (and not only that the international was there) to fight.
          as the officer said, the former "adviser", if at the first sounds of alarm the Vietnamese were blown away by the wind, then the Afghans ... first a helmet on the head, then a rug and head towards Mecca on the floor ... well, while these actions ended, then the raid ended. there was no sense in such warriors. so they were sent very quickly and sent home
  19. AlexMH
    +10
    8 January 2013 16: 28
    I was taught about this 200th complex, as a launch officer in the K3-V cockpit or as a platoon commander of starting crews. I can't imagine the K-2 cab, "in a few seconds" moving somewhere on the rails .... The S-200 is, in principle, a semi-stationary complex, where charging machines go to stationary launchers on the rails, and the locator is a huge crap weighing 12 tons, standing motionless on a 20-meter slide, which must first be poured. Did you drag high-frequency cables behind the cabin on your hands? And the technical division was hidden under the ground, and the oxidizer and fuel were not poisoned? By the way, the complex cannot capture the target "in a few seconds", first it is necessary to detect it, take it for auto-tracking, issue information to the seeker, the operator of the seeker must also put the heads on auto-tracking (for this, the launcher must be able to rotate freely), then the command to the launch and the entire flight time of missiles, the locator must accompany the target, because homing is semi-active. In short, it has a cycle of 2-3 minutes at least from the beginning of work, excluding warming up and if the missiles are already on "preparation". So the option "rolled out and fired" is not about the 200th complex in general, and the article raises doubts about the reliability of what was written. Well, or his interpretation ...
  20. smprofi
    +8
    8 January 2013 16: 41
    it was not an air defense officer who wrote. wrote a journalist, maybe heard something somewhere, but approached the issue "creatively".

    Everything is "blind" and "deaf" - all because the communication system was built on Siemens AG equipment. yes, the equipment is modern (Saddam spared no money), but with a backdoor function or, in other words, with a police function. that's why the command of the troops was lost. and the connection between the detection radar (several powerful ones were built) and the air defense systems were lost. in addition, the same French air defense system Roland, for example, "refused to" shoot "at NATO aircraft.

    Allied aviation no longer falls below six thousand meters и forced the Allies to abandon low-altitude bombing. - This is not the result of air defense systems. for SAM, especially for the S-200 - the higher the target - the better. leaving for 6000 and above is a departure from barrel artillery and MANPADS. it was just the belief that all anti-aircraft missile systems were suppressed.

    A hundred millimeter cannon for shooting at the ground was installed on the heavy C-5A Galaxy - Well, that's the "main" fantasy. Why put a gun on the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy if it was already on the Lockheed AC-130H Spooky gunship (105 mm M-102 Howitzer gun) by that time? all the more so that in January-February 1991, four AS-130Ns from the 4th squadron made 50 sorties, having flown over 280 hours over Iraq. (who is interested in reading about gunship: http://nnm.ru/blogs/smprofi/krylatye_linkory_ogon_nebesnyy_3/)
  21. Alexander 1958
    +7
    8 January 2013 16: 43
    Good afternoon! The article is certainly interesting and warms the soul, but it was hardly true, and the Soviet officer who refused to return is a tribunal ..
    About the same kind of stories go about the battle of the "Merkava" with the T-72, when they fought all night, more than 10 "Merkava" were shot down, but where this battle took place is not known, there are no photos of the broken tanks, the name of our military expert, to whom many refer sources, too, is not called.
    Here is a link to the battle of our MI-24 in Iraq in 1991.
    http://www.proza.ru/2007/03/31-151
    Read in one go. it warms the soul that they kicked my ass and due to skill and thanks to our weapons, the only BUT, but is all this true?
    Alexander 1958
    1. 0
      8 January 2013 17: 39
      And how many of you did not return to Russia. And they served in the Soviet Army.
      Pot calls the kettle black.
    2. 0
      11 January 2013 04: 07
      Quote: Alexander 1958
      .... Here is a link to the battle of our MI-24 in Iraq in 1991.
      http://www.proza.ru/2007/03/31-151.....

      Thank! Really interesting.
  22. +2
    8 January 2013 17: 23
    smprofi,
    I agree to all 100%. Either a journalist, or having played enough in strategy, shooting, flying ...
  23. +2
    8 January 2013 17: 38
    Submit a tagged person to the European Court under the articles "abuse of power", "treason". Demand the issue - and to the wall.
  24. Eraser
    0
    8 January 2013 17: 38
    It seems that the S-200 was not delivered to Iraq, so the article is about nothing.
    1. smprofi
      0
      8 January 2013 17: 56
      Quote: Eraser
      It seems that the S-200 was not delivered to Iraq

      it's hard to say something.
      SAM 2K11 "Krug" in Iraq, it seems, was also not supplied. but with my own eyes I saw on an enemy TV channel in the news how the 2P24 launcher was driving through the desert



      such missiles are unique in shape. impossible to confuse

      Well, the fact that the article is so-so - already wrote
      1. Alexander 1958
        +3
        8 January 2013 18: 02
        And the foreign channel is not Al Jazeera? And then they during the war in Libya and the scenery of the squares built and rallies on them took off. They and Red Square imitate if they pay well ..
        1. smprofi
          +1
          8 January 2013 18: 42
          euronews seems
      2. +1
        9 January 2013 01: 38
        Well, here's the cover of the Serbian magazine with the famous Serbian S-300
  25. 0
    8 January 2013 18: 03
    1. The article is super. More to such
    2. About the downed C-5 - bullshit, of course. All C-5 planes and their losses are known In this case, to the conspiracy theorists - if you do not have paranoia, this does not mean that you are not being followed ... :-). From his own words, "... 100mm gun ..." is more like the AC-130 of course. Well, maybe, of course, that B-52, which later crashed on the way to Diego Garcia, although ... he also writes that the plane disappeared from radar ...
    3. The transition to the middle altitude of the MNF aviation is rather the merit of those Iraqi artillery anti-aircraft gunners, about whom he wrote and those who used MANPADS. It is clear that the MNS was not afraid of "large" air defense systems, but they were very much afraid of low-altitude air defense.
    4. Nevertheless, it is very interesting how he ended up there :-) - The Soviet Union, the officer-adviser remains in foreign countries. business trip CAM ??? I don’t really believe it all the same ... Rather, some kind of order.
    1. +1
      8 January 2013 18: 45
      This is how "friends" confess their losses, keep your pocket wider fellow
      It was in the second company that they already, as on tour, took a ride, and in the first they pretty much cleaned up their "face" and kicked their "seat".
      Therefore, I had to quit what I started and after some time repeat it. Naturally after a GOOD preparation.

      And in Angola at this time, shoulder to shoulder with the Cuban “comrades” who fought? belay
    2. +2
      8 January 2013 18: 59
      About the loss of NATO countries can not be guessed! their censorship is stronger than ours in the USSR.!
      here you say that everything is known ... and when I served, a knowledgeable comrade said that the f-117 was first shot down in Iraq !!! but it fell into the territory controlled by the coalition, and therefore it is not known about him.
      1. +2
        8 January 2013 22: 25
        for the first time the F-117 was in Iraq, the Wasp complex. About censorship, for example, did you know how the Jews over Egypt shot down a MiG 21 with Soviet crews ????
    3. +1
      8 January 2013 21: 47
      about the fact that they are not afraid of our missiles, you claimed this back in Vietnam, but for some reason they, like maniacs, ironed out false positions on 12 once a day, were you afraid of dshk or zsu 23?
  26. +4
    8 January 2013 18: 23
    A hundred-millimeter cannon for firing at the ground was placed on the heavy C-5A Galaxy. A sort of neo- "flying fortress".

    C-5 Galaxy does not exist in the ganship version. The author is confused with the AC-130.
  27. Mr.Fox
    +1
    8 January 2013 19: 21
    Quote: Alexander 1958

    Alexander 1958

    As for the helicopters in Iraq, this is very much like fiction. Your source is missing the beginning of the article, and in fact there is given a generally unique fact:
    "Evening, at fifteen to six, March 27, 2003. The eighth day of the war, which turned out to be for the Americans and their allies, is by no means quick and victorious, on which they hoped. Port of Najaf -" Brest Fortress of Hussein " Daring sortie - Iraqi missile boat Osa destroyed a minesweeper, light destroyer and landing ship, but was hit from the air. "
    http://skyfireavia.narod.ru/weap/shturm_iraq/shturm_iraq.htm

    And in general, you have no doubt that the "Assaults" are fired at the target from a distance of 7,200 meters. Not too far away for them? On the other hand, the success of the Mi-24 could well have been, only not so large-scale.

    And, finally, the most important argument against. The fact is that the site http://skyfireavia.narod.ru belongs to Andrey Shityakov. Look in the internet for who it is and everything will become clear :)

    It looks like authorial fiction.
    1. Alexander 1958
      +1
      8 January 2013 21: 44
      Mr fox
      Well, so am I about the same! Entertaining reading. People have taken away the feeling of the citizens of the Great Country, and here there is an opportunity to remember this feeling, and here we are. I myself read and don’t believe, but I still read ..
      Alexander 1958
  28. Vitmir
    +4
    8 January 2013 19: 46
    Fairy tale, definitely. Galaxy transporter in 1991 he shot down from S-200 in Iraq, og, with a gun like that ...
  29. semenar
    +4
    8 January 2013 21: 38
    This "cranberry" has been wandering around for 10 years already and has been repeatedly discussed at the airbase and other specialized forums. Into the furnace of this kind of billitistics.
  30. +1
    8 January 2013 21: 51
    by the way, about the unreality of hiding the s-5, so you can now rush and find all the Russian Ruslans? Or do you think that the crews on their return make reports to the press and take pictures, so that no one would think of anything like that? You can blur it without any problems and will not look too much, here you are clearly overestimating, the omniscient omniscient civil society,
  31. +3
    8 January 2013 22: 23
    good day, everyone, the article really warmed up the soul, and he himself served on a two-hundred-year-old in the K-3 complex; good Arabs, warriors are crap with this complex in 1984 or 1985 in Syria, Jews were driven by Ameri planes they were knocked out as if they had freaks from Arabs for that who fled from the starting position, they were in the starting calculation, pu did not reload cowards, and they would also look whose trump card is older and they wrote the article just like a journalist, but still pleased youth remembered and pride in Russian weapons
    1. postman
      +2
      10 January 2013 01: 28
      Quote: andrei555
      t to he served on two hundred in k-3

      They did not serve, even in a "jacket" were not. Lying
      in which K-3 * then?

      Quote: andrei555
      this complex in 1984 or 1985 in Syria, Jews were driven

      Again "drive"?
      This is where and whose date and from?
      1. -1
        12 January 2013 20: 42
        the postman you yourself at least once saw two hundred or live or only in the pictures for you a brief info booth to 1 radar. cockpit k2 there commanders control. cab to 3 starting battery. we monitor the capture of the target by the head and give permission to launch plus starters, i.e., a starting calculation of who the guns are scurrying about plus diesels with their kerogaz wink And Syria was at 85
        1. postman
          0
          14 January 2013 23: 09
          Quote: andrei555
          the postman you yourself at least once two hundred

          Yes. I can send a military ID.
          Quote: andrei555
          for you a brief info booth

          Seriously? maybe so? (see below)
          Quote: andrei555
          And Syria was at 85

          And deliveries to Siru S-200 VE began with ...
          After the defeat of Syrian air defense in the Bekaa Valley
          Operation Artsav June 9-10, 1982

          Delivery began in 1982 and the S-200 was deployed 40 km from Damascus. 4 air defense systems were transferred to Syrian air defense in 1985.

          Quote: andrei555
          Jews drove on amersky planes knocked them out as if they were after this warehouse

          Yes Yes.
          "Did they drive the yavrev?" "Were you bombed with missiles?"
          ===============================================
          Write this
          Quote: andrei555
          article really soul warmed up t to myself served on two hundred

          could only full :

          REM: Seriously? maybe so? (see below)
  32. +1
    8 January 2013 23: 47
    Interestingly, can our C-300 and C-400 work when jamming the enemy? And it’s also interesting to know about communication. Because if air defense and communications are clogged with interference, there will be no sense in our super technique.
    1. +2
      9 January 2013 01: 40
      any complex can work in conditions of interference, otherwise the meaning disappears. It’s just that it is more protected from them, some less. It all depends mainly on the year of development, from which interference they were mainly protected then.
  33. +3
    8 January 2013 23: 55
    Quote: Zomanus
    there will be no sense in our super technique

    Their frequency jumps over the range, and if the enemies "score" everything, then they themselves will not see nichrome smile , but it is unrealistically difficult and expensive, the jamming station calculates the frequency of the air defense system and "hangs" interference on it - the air defense system "runs away" - or simply continuously "jumps"
  34. Beltar
    -5
    9 January 2013 01: 12
    C-5 knock down, it must have been grass that year, a good freak ...
    The AC-130 EMNIP was not shot down in Iraq.
  35. +1
    9 January 2013 11: 35
    The article is sincere, inspiring, but alas, absolutely fabulous
    IMHO, such texts are more likely harmful, since enemies are allowed to laugh, and friends are not allowed to objectively look at reality.
  36. +1
    9 January 2013 13: 49
    I remember recently liberal-minded individuals laughed homerically about the delivery to the troops of inflatable models of air defense systems. Well, who is fool & k now ??? With the correct organization of the cover of real air defense divisions with false targets, the entire high-tech reconnaissance potential of a potential enemy is nullified. And let them storm rubber targets and radar simulators ...
    1. postman
      +2
      9 January 2013 15: 31
      Quote: Alligator_S
      Well, who is fool & k now ???

      Author or "major".
      1.S-200 in Iraq was not
      2. Neither the French nor the Italian were.
      For NATO, the company produced Ballonfabrik (Germany) and US enterprises


      materials with almost the same reflective characteristics in the radar and infrared ranges as in real samples are used. Electric air blowers are used to supply air, equipped with automatic on and off devices when the pressure drops below the required value. Layouts are attached to the surface of the earth with anchor pegs with lanyards. Only two people are required to transfer the model to its working position, and, for example, equipping the false position of the battery of the Hawk air defense system (nine models of launchers) by eight people takes about 60 minutes
      3. Not delivered to Iraq (and he didn’t order)
      4. Foaming chemicals to hide military targets on the ground - the same was not
      =========================
  37. postman
    +1
    9 January 2013 14: 56
    Quote: Author
    In a dispute over the 1991 war, we can expose a valuable witness - a Russian officer of the S-200 complex.

    Quote: Author
    This air defense major has several victories in his account, still hiding his name. Here is what he said:

    delete article
    The whole world will laugh at us ...,
    1. The S-200 was not supplied to Iraq in any modifications.
    Delivered to Iran.
    2.
    Quote: Author
    Until the beginning of the nineties, the "dvuhsotka" was almost the most advanced.
    /
    Since 1979, the S-300P was adopted in service and SO S-200 was exported
    3.
    Quote: Author
    For a whole month, on cloudy days and nights, when the earth was closed for air and space reconnaissance, we were engaged in equipping the division’s positions.
    /
    "closed"? here "it was not possible to close it, the author and the" PVOshnik "managed to

    Especially "easy" to hide:
    5H84A

    And the Russian Orthodox Church (K1V) is also so "compact"
    4.
    Quote: Author
    Launchers and stations have long been "packed" into powerful concrete, on which a special coating was applied, which completely merged with the sand.
    /
    "all in concrete and in coating"

    And how will TZM drive up?

    / I will not reveal a secret: only PU and ZR are covered with a camouflage net, the brusver cannot be covered /
    Concrete was "used" in storage facilities and shelters, but not as "powerful"
  38. postman
    +7
    9 January 2013 15: 05
    Quote: Author
    In a dispute over the 1991 war, we can expose a valuable witness - a Russian officer of the S-200 complex.

    Quote: Author
    This air defense major has several victories in his account, still hiding his name. Here is what he said:

    delete article
    The whole world will laugh at us ...,
    1. The S-200 was not supplied to Iraq in any modifications.
    Delivered to Iran.
    2.
    Quote: Author
    Until the beginning of the nineties, the "dvuhsotka" was almost the most advanced.
    /
    Since 1979, the S-300P was adopted in service and SO S-200 was exported
    3.
    Quote: Author
    For a whole month, on cloudy days and nights, when the earth was closed for air and space reconnaissance, we were engaged in equipping the division’s positions.
    /
    "closed"? here "it was not possible to close it, the author and the" PVOshnik "managed to

    Especially "easy" to hide:
    5H84A

    And the Russian Orthodox Church (K1V) is also so "compact"
    4.
    Quote: Author
    Launchers and stations have long been "packed" into powerful concrete, on which a special coating was applied, which completely merged with the sand.
    /
    "all in concrete and in coating"


    / I will not reveal a secret: only PU and ZR are covered with a camouflage net, the brusver cannot be covered /
    Concrete was "used" in storage facilities and shelters, but not as "powerful"


    And how (and where) will TZM drive up?
    1. postman
      +8
      9 January 2013 15: 07
      / continued /
      5.
      Quote: Author
      The installations themselves moved on rails along a whole system of tunnels and each had several combat positions.
      /
      PU 5P72 cannot "move either on rails" or on "platforms" with an "electric drive".
      she stands. AND INSTALLED (exposed)

      Not to "skate"
      7.
      Quote: Author
      Almost continuously, reconnaissance satellites hung over us.
      /
      Satellites do not "hang", all the more so in 1991 over some kind of ragged Iraq (USA partner, others)
      8.
      Quote: Author
      First, we were attacked at extremely low altitudes by combat helicopters, then by British and Italian Tornadoes.
      /
      Well, what kind of "idiots Americans": first by helicopters, and then by planes?
      Where did Helicopters fly from? (Combat radius)? S-200 them (helicopters) on take-off would destroy.
      From the Khamis Ma Shait Air Base to Baghdad 1750km.
      AERODROME "bounce"?
      For your information:: From January 17 to January 19, 1991 about 4700 sorties (over 80 - strategic aviation, more than 4000 - tactical aviation and about 600 - carrier-based aviation, and then 700-800 sorties per day. Refueling in the air.
      Two KP air defense sectors, an air force headquarters in Baghdad, a missile defense center, and al-Taji tracking were damaged / destroyed by the F-117 on the night of January 16-17, 1991.
      9.
      Quote: Author
      Sami "Tornado" went in three combat units in a close battle formation at a height of seventy meters. The range to the goals was eighteen kilometers.
      /
      70 m? - well, you would fly on your own, WHAT DO YOU FURTHER?
      S-200 ensures the defeat of air targets flying at speeds of 100-1000 m / s, with heading angles 0-60 °, at heights of 300 m - 35 km (27km / 40km from the modification)
      18 km? S-200 "provides defeat at firing ranges from 17km up to 50-160 km)
      The duration of the missile preparation mode after pressing the PREPARATION button in the K-ZM cockpit is 1 min.
      The time from pressing the START button in the K-2 cockpit to the launch of a rocket is 2–2,5 seconds.
      everything is "ideal", in 62 seconds the tornado will fly (900 km / h = 250 m / s) 15,5 km

      WHAT to twitch?
      10. And further in the "same spirit"

      I don't know what kind of "major" it is, but neither he nor the author in the air defense system, and even more so on the S-200 air defense system, did not serve.
      If only in the economy ...
      by profession: BLOGER in ЖЖЖЖжжжэ
      It’s better not to disgrace such a thing
      1. +4
        10 January 2013 13: 30
        Quote: Author
        On the heavy C-5A, the Galaxy was equipped with a hundred-millimeter cannon for firing at the ground. A sort of neo- "flying fortress."


        C-5 Galaxy transports a submarine

        The C-5 Galaxy heavy-duty military transport aircraft was NEVER USED as a fire support aircraft.
        To drive such a huge and expensive "fool" into the war zone is madness. For the installation of the "100-mm cannon" a lifting capacity of 118 tons is not required (this is how much the Galaxy raises, the maximum take-off weight is 380 tons!). By the way, even this caliber (100 mm) has never been in the American army.

        The author probably confused the C-5 Galaxy with the AS-130 Spektr fire support aircraft based on the transport Hercules. "
        A real flying battery with a 105 mm howitzer, 40 mm automatic "Bofors" and a six-barreled cannon "Vulcan" - all weapons are installed on the left side + aiming systems, thermal imagers and automatic fire traps.



        charging


        Aiming system operator

        Having reached the target, the 60-ton "gunship" turns around and, on a steady bend, starts pouring lead on the enemy, circling over the target - a fiery cone is formed with a top on the ground, at the aiming point.

        1. postman
          +1
          10 January 2013 21: 58
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          To drive such a huge and expensive "fool" into the war zone is madness.

          but a certain unnamed "major" Russian officer of the S-200 complex (well, the one who "did not leave Iraq") does not think so, together with "Arabs standing shoulder to shoulder"!
          They saw him, it is clearly written.
          You are wrong in the root, there it is not only about the "gun"

          Quote: Author
          Maybe the pilots got lost or maybe vigilance lost after twenty days bombingи

          He (C-5) is also a "front bomber"
          That’s why
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          required 118 tons payload
          Well, MINUS gun weight of course.
          It is written in Russian: 20 days they bombed and went crazy ...
          try to bomb on the S-5 in a dive of 118 tons (minus the gun)?
          Get lost and the S-200 will seem.
          And about the gun, the same is not clear, most likely it was:
          127 mm AU Mk 42. TWO. to "upside down". Here


          By the way, what was he (an officer) doing in Iraq at that time? The homeland and the party did not send him there (like the S-20
          0)
      2. Lermontov
        +1
        13 January 2013 20: 08
        Malochaga complete respect for you.
  39. gen.meleshkin
    -4
    9 January 2013 15: 37
    With great pleasure I read the article. I was very jealous of the author’s ability to beat the Americans who were burnt by impunity in Vietnam and Iraq. Such heroes defended the interests of Russia while the Kremlin traitors - liberals of that time were selling Russia. Low bow to you warriors!
    1. postman
      +3
      10 January 2013 22: 14
      Quote: gen.meleshkin
      Such heroes defended Russia's interests in


      The country should know "its heroes"
      here he is ("found" him)
  40. +2
    9 January 2013 15: 48
    We were told that they are de "civilized", "cultured" and "decent" people. But in fact, jackals turned out to be jackals.

    Listen, golden words, eh! I don't know who and where he served. But this is not said in the eyebrow, but in the eye. On my own behalf, I can add the following: without going into details, I will say that I had to do such "things" that are not mentioned in any combat manual or manual. And I’ll even say more, in peacetime they would unscrew the head, let alone my beloved military prosecutor’s office ... But it was not air defense.
  41. 0
    9 January 2013 17: 17
    Thanks for the article, very interesting.
    But it’s not entirely clear how the calculation with the Russian air defense major knew which aircraft it was downing. Indeed, on the radar, apart from coordinates, speed and approximately reflective surface, nothing is shown.

    Or from television news?
  42. +2
    9 January 2013 19: 39
    If they had told the NATO troops that the SS-2 regiment had sent 300 to Iraq, not a single savage plane would dare approach the Iraqi border even at 100 km.
    As Yusovskiy writer Heinlein rightly said in the book The Road of Valor.
    "The American Eagle now feeds on carrion, does not attack anyone, even in its weight class, and is likely to die out altogether. It is for these Ideals that it stands upright. The symbol is what we ourselves put into it."
    http://readr.ru/robert-haynlayn-doroga-doblesti.html?page=54#
  43. Uncle Serozha
    +7
    9 January 2013 20: 22
    I read the article and it put me in a complete dead end. Since the S-200 had some firsthand knowledge, there are a number of very specific questions for the author.

    Quote: author
    In a dispute over the 1991 war, we can expose a valuable witness - a Russian officer of the S-200 complex.


    When was the S-200 delivered to Iraq and what specific modification? Why didn’t anyone write about this after the occupation of Iraq? Equipment taken out?

    Quote: author
    This air defense major has several victories in his account, still hiding his name

    What does it mean “in my own account”. Who was he in the post and what exactly was the task as part of the S-200?

    Quote: author
    The installations themselves moved on rails along a whole system of tunnels and each had several combat positions. The stations were also "retractable".

    This is how it 5P72 went on rails? Do you imagine a cable network of two hundred? Yes, she also had several positions? How then to be with topographic location? How do we make it clear the GOS of the rocket after it is deployed to which of several positions does it currently have? Simply put - where should she turn? The same question on the synchronization of the Russian Orthodox Church (5N62) with the regiment’s CP.
    From where the legs of this sweet fairy tale grow, I more or less understand. Yes, in the “two hundred” there is one component that really rides on rails and can be in shelter. This is a loading machine (ЗМ) 5Ю24 (not to be confused with a ТЗМ - transport-loading machine on a KRAZ semi-trailer). Yes, she leaves the shelter and charges the gun in fully automatic mode (all switchings are made from K3B). But traveling Pskov and the Russian Orthodox Church ...
    ??????? What kind of nonsense?

    Quote: tforik
    The Tornadoes themselves marched in three combat units in a close order of battle at a height of seventy meters. The distance to the targets was eighteen kilometers.

    Excuse me, how is this? At Angara and Vega (including export), the lower border of the affected area is 300 m. Dubna is said to be slightly smaller, but Dubna was not even deployed to the Union and was not exported. How could the S-200 reach the target at a height of 70 meters?

    Quote: tforik
    Tornadoes, of course, detected our irradiation and missile launches. The jammers are hastily deployed in our direction.

    For what? To make the task easier for you? On a powerful obstacle, "two hundred" is easier to work than on purpose. According to jammers, fire is generally possible in a passive mode with the ROC turned off.
    I foresee the question: “what if it is a speed-guiding obstacle that still works (albeit with some probability) against the S-200? I will answer the question: is it at a distance of 18 km? Wow! And then: did PP seem to work against the S-75 battalion covering the airfield, according to the Author? That is, in fact, the channels of the SNR were killed by noise? So S-200 just give that noise!
    1. Uncle Serozha
      +7
      9 January 2013 20: 34
      Quote: tforik
      Joyous screams filled the cockpit of the guidance station. Forgetting the danger, we all hugged.

      S-200 GUIDANCE STATION ????? What kind of beast is this? Where and by whom is it created? How could it be included in the standard S-200 scheme, if there are all products with a passive GOS ???

      Quote: tforik
      Knowing that on such ships to hell with all kinds of radio-electronic traps, we shot in television mode.

      Please explain to me how this is possible television mode shooting at the S-200? If the composition of this complex CHP is absent as a class ??? In the normal mode of firing, the ROC irradiates the target, the rocket receives a signal reflected from the target. There is NO direct connection with the rocket board after launch. How can TV shoot? Even ballistically impossible, since the S-200 cannon is guided only in azimuth, and the launch angle is always 48 °. Who manages the missile (Division? ACS?) And from which cabin? What does warhead trigger in this situation?

      Well, about the Galaxy with a 100 mm gun, I generally keep quiet ...

      Dear Author! I am also offended that the Yankees bombed Iraq. But instead of rewriting history, it’s better to learn from it. And certainly you do not need to write such naive tales.
      1. postman
        +1
        10 January 2013 20: 42
        Quote: Uncle Seryozha
        if there are all products with passive seeker ???

        I will correct you: semi-active GSN 71V6
        + the ability to homing on the source of active interference in angular coordinates
        (but not the GOS PRLS of course)
        passive GOS- on radiation created by the target.


        Quote: Uncle Seryozha
        and the start angle is always 48 °

        The launch angle of 48 can be "bypassed" and so tested (tried to adapt) when firing at surface targets, flying along the "modified" AP (bases of construction and operation of AP)
        1. Uncle Serozha
          +2
          10 January 2013 22: 58
          Yes, semi-active, of course, described. And I did not hear about bypassing the launch angle, but even if you go around it, it is hard to believe in the "ballistic" firing mode. Then, to take into account the parallax, it would be necessary to match the coordinates of ALL guns with the aiming camera. Despite the fact that they are, oh, how far from each other! And the operator, when opening fire, in some way indicate from which gun the product will go. But it might be funny! lol
          By the way, this is the second time that I read this. For the first time I read about this ... among the Americans. In the second half of the 80s (in my opinion it was Air Force Magazine) they published an article about Operation El Dorado Canyon, in which the author (referring to the pilots) in all seriousness claimed that the Libyan radars were so strangled by the "music" they switched on (there were two EF-111s in battle formations, if you remember) that the operators ... were launching S-200 missiles in ballistic mode !!!
          I laughed for a long time imagining this magnificent picture and trying to understand who would bring the warhead into action. Apparently on board the rocket was a suicide bomber. lol
          1. postman
            +1
            11 January 2013 19: 04
            Quote: Uncle Seryozha
            Yes, semi-active, of course, described.

            Since 1990, I have also "forgotten", "no practice".
            Quote: Uncle Serezha
            But I didn’t hear about the start angle

            It is possible and "on the knee" (from memory without specifics)
            On 5P72B we "remove" the limit switch (contactor) from the EC. With the help of improvised means, we simulate the closure of the contactor at the elevation we need: the PU is outside the prohibited zone.
            Quote: Uncle Serezha
            And when opening the fire, the operator should somehow indicate from which gun the product will go.

            Remote Control (K9M)
            Quote: Uncle Seryozha
            it's hard to believe in "ballistic" firing mode

            1.Mode of capturing a target in the air (from K2B to K3B commands "smooth" and "closed target")
            2. We simulate a signal from the ROC digital computer (from K2 to K3) (in azimuth)
            3. If the signal cannot be detected, the rocket continues to fly up to the development of fuel (during refinement, we can force cut off)
            4. Undermining can be done by turning off the BIP (by timer, by altimeter)
            All of course with revision
            5. The tracking system of the seeker in terms of speed and angles can be "fooled" by the threshold value of the velocity head
            / Well, something like this /

            In order to expand the combat capabilities of the system’s fire weapons at the Sary-Shagan training ground in 1982, several firing was conducted on ground targets. Missiles in the hardware (target capture system) have undergone minor refinement, the rest of the system’s technology has not been finalized. During the test firing a missile, a radar-visible target was destroyed - a machine with a special container mounted on it from the target of the MP-8IC. When installing a container with radar reflectors on the ground, the radio contrast of the target fell sharply and the shooting became ineffective. Based on the test results, conclusions were drawn about the possibility of missiles of the S-200V (S-200M) system of powerful ground-based sources of interference. Expected to be high firing at surface targets within the radio horizon. But carrying out improvements to the complexes in the troops for the introduction of a regime of firing at ground or surface targets was considered inappropriate. A number of foreign sources reported a similar use of the S-200 system during the hostilities in Nagorno-Karabakh.(ARMENIANS COULD THEN)


            Of course Pechera -2A (125) is not S-200V, but you can watch the video:

            There is a report on surface targets
            1. 0
              11 January 2013 19: 12
              postman,
              ______________
              1. postman
                +1
                11 January 2013 19: 56
                This is the picture that you asked?
                1. 0
                  11 January 2013 20: 17
                  Unfortunately, no. But similar.
                  So I rummaged over the use of AMX-30 in Iraq I came across.
                  1. postman
                    +1
                    11 January 2013 21: 24
                    And what did I send you? Not that?
                    I asked a former Luftwaffe "worker", promised to rummage through the archives and the museum
                    1. +1
                      11 January 2013 21: 30
                      Quote: Postman
                      what did I send you? Not that?

                      Interesting. I didn’t have such an angle from Warier.

                      I want the sky in the gaps and anti-aircraft fire trails.
                      Quote: Postman
                      a former Luftwaffe employee requested

                      Thank you.
                      1. postman
                        +1
                        11 January 2013 22: 19
                        Quote: Kars
                        it is the sky in the gaps and trails of anti-aircraft fire.


                        Over Budapest?
                        Yak-130 will not help
                        ----------------------------------

                        Does raw material come from me?
                      2. 0
                        11 January 2013 22: 29
                        Quote: Postman
                        Does raw material come from me?

                        is coming.
            2. Uncle Serozha
              +2
              12 January 2013 01: 21
              Quote: Postman
              Since 1990, I have also "forgotten", "no practice".

              And I didn’t have it at all. I studied the S-200, but had to serve on other equipment.

              Quote: Postman
              It is possible and "on the knee" (from memory without specifics)
              On 5P72B we "remove" the limit switch (contactor) from the EC. With the help of improvised means, we simulate the closure of the contactor at the elevation we need: the PU is outside the prohibited zone.

              About the trailer - this is a no brainer. But if we want to hit the target in ballistic mode, then we need not just to get around the launch angle. We need, in fact, a servo drive that can launch the launcher to any (arbitrary) angle of start, moreover, with an accuracy that the existing drives are clearly not designed for. Yes, and there will be problems in response time - it will be calculated in fractional seconds with existing drives (you know). smile Here you can’t just manage with a lead. In general, the reaction time of servo drives for any ballistic system is critical.

              Quote: Postman
              1.Mode of capturing a target in the air (from K2B to K3B commands "smooth" and "closed target")
              2. We simulate a signal from the ROC digital computer (from K2 to K3) (in azimuth)
              3. If the signal cannot be detected, the rocket continues to fly up to the development of fuel (we can force

              With a “closed target” it is clear - take-off of a missile with a guided seeker in the absence of a target vision. Why "smooth" - I did not quite understand, to be honest. “Smooth” - ento it seems like just turning off the PCM and, accordingly, losing information in range (but the gain in range due to the fact that the light is essentially a narrow-band sinusoidal signal). Why do we need it here if the GOS doesn’t see the target? Though smooth light, even FCMisty, though not light at all, we still start without seeing (“closed target”). Or am I not remembering something ago?

              Quote: Postman
              4. Undermining can be done by turning off the BIP (by timer, by altimeter)

              This is a serious revision of the board itself. Moreover, this delay (or altitude) we have to start on board before launch. That is, non-childish revision of something.

              Quote: Postman
              All of course with revision

              That's what I’m talking about. Moreover, the revision is quite large-scale, requiring non-child R&D. Considering. that no information was received about such works, this article seemed to me to put it mildly not the most believable.
              1. postman
                +1
                14 January 2013 16: 14
                Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                We need, in fact, a servo drive that can bring the launcher to any (arbitrary) angle of start

                Derived cannot \, there is a lower limit, according to the descent of ZR with PU (you will not shoot horizontally)
                Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                We need essentially a servo drive

                Not tracking, but a table on the angle of launch, or a ballistic computer, such as a tank)
                I can close the limit switch at any angle.
                Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                . In general, the reaction time of servo drives for any ballistic system is critical.

                Why suffer, the Germans shot Fau at London. Did it work out?
                The point is in the target and in the warhead.
                This is if a "shallow" alteration. And so even I, with my scanty knowledge, adapt the GOS and AP from anti-ship missiles to anti-aircraft missiles from S-200.
                Everything can be circumvented, everything is very reasonable and understandable on the complex, not CAN bus tea.
                Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                Why "smooth" - I did not quite understand, to be honest.

                This is a tutorial - screen below
                Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                This is a serious revision of the board itself.

                Oh well, at the level of the electric drive of the garage door.
                Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                we will have to get on board before launch.

                It goes without saying: c / z K3V is transmitted anyway: 1 / 2D, TD, azimuthal lead, command "ZTSVM". But undermining the warhead at a height is needed so that it does not plop in front of the target, and then, lying down, it explodes (UNLESS it was destroyed when it fell)
                Although you can integrate the contactee. I can send a signal to undermine the warhead (by simulating the shutdown of the BIP) at a negative acceleration
                Quote: Uncle Seryozha
                Moreover, the revision is quite large-scale, requiring non-child R&D.

                I think it just became nobody needs.
                Yes, and finance. The maintenance is expensive, but the idea of ​​the complex is still 50s, is already outdated. But there were shootings. There was an idea. Although economically, of course, using 5V21 *, 5V28 * as a short-range ballistic missile (such as Scud) is stupid according to the criterion of efficiency / cost
                1. Uncle Serozha
                  +1
                  15 January 2013 00: 03
                  Quote: Postman
                  Why suffer, the Germans shot Fau at London. Did it work out?
                  The point is in the target and in the warhead.

                  So I talked about ballistic shooting at air targets in TV mode. The author of the article spoke more precisely about this, and I tried to imagine it. Since there is no CHP and we can’t control a rocket in flight, shooting in TV mode is possible only ballistic - that is, without controlling a rocket, with a choice of lead. That's why we need a follow-up drive.

                  I now realized that all this time you have been talking about ballistic shooting at a ground target. They told us this during the preparation, but I'm not talking about that.
                  1. postman
                    +1
                    15 January 2013 00: 59
                    [quote = Uncle Seryozha] So I talked about ballistic shooting at an air target in TV mode. [/ quote] This is not heresy. I don’t know how to get into the flying (fig knows how many kilometers from the launcher) apparatus along the ballistic trajectory (without the ROC, the GOS, Ypr) ...
                    I even say the youngest is nonsense, and will go to bullet in Var craft.

                    [quote = Uncle Seryozha] More precisely, the author of the article spoke about this [/ quote]
                    NOT! The author spoke generally about [quote = Author] we shot at television mode. Missiles pointed at TV screen. Visually. The "dvuhsotka" also has such a mode. [/ quote] / I call this the confession of Duremar /

                    [quote = Uncle Seryozha] I understand now, [/ quote] - EXACTLY !!!
                    [quote = Postman] The angle of launch at 48 can be "bypassed" and so tested (tried to adapt) when firing at surface targets [/quote]


                    [quote = Uncle Seryozha] but that's not what I mean. [/ quote]
                    What about?
                    About "telemode" [quote = Uncle Seryozha] If in the composition of this complex there is no SNR at all AS A CLASS ??? In the normal firing mode, the ROC irradiates the target, the rocket receives the signal reflected from the target. There is NO direct communication with the missile board after launch. How can TV shooting be conducted? [/ quote]
                    good
                    I was with the iPad and the poor Megaphone connection, I was able to write only 10 points and was tortured to death.
                  2. postman
                    0
                    15 January 2013 01: 13
                    [quote = Uncle Seryozha] So I talked about ballistic shooting at an air target in TV mode. [/ quote]
                    And I understood about the ballistic trajectory in general.
                    This is not heresy. How to get into a flying machine along a ballistic trajectory (without the Russian Orthodox Church, GOS, etc.), I don’t know how it is ....
                    I even say the youngest is nonsense, and will go to bullet in Var craft.

                    [quote = Uncle Seryozha] More precisely said the author of the article [/ quote]
                    NOT! The author spoke generally about [quote = Author] we shot at television mode. Missiles pointed at TV screen. Visually. The "dvuhsotka" also has such a mode. [/ quote] / I call this the confession of Duremar /



                    [quote = Uncle Seryozha] I now understood, [/ quote] -EXACTLY !!!
                    [quote = Postman] The angle of launch at 48 can be "bypassed" and so tested (tried to adapt) when firing at surface targets [/quote]


                    [quote = Uncle Seryozha] but I'm not talking about that. [/ quote]
                    What about?
                    They have already said about the "telemode" [quote = Uncle Seryozha] If there is NO CHP in this complex at all AS A CLASS ??? In the normal firing mode, the ROC irradiates the target, the rocket receives the signal reflected from the target. There is NO direct communication with the missile board after launch. How can TV shooting be conducted? [/ quote]
                    good
                    I was with the iPad and the poor Megaphone connection I could write only 10 points and was tortured to death
                    Here is the author below the PU, let him roll it on rails from cover to cover
          2. postman
            0
            11 January 2013 19: 47
            Quote: Uncle Seryozha
            (in battle formations, there were two EF-111s, if you remember)

            I don’t remember that.
            I know that 19 F-111Fs Aardvark 48. TFW (Tactical Fighter Wing) and 5 EF-111A (ECM) 42. Electronic Combat Squadron took off from Lakenheath and Upper Heyford England. 5 F-111F and EF-111A returned to base due to technical problems.
            With USS America rose 7 units -7ES (they suppressed the C-200) and EA-6B.
            according to Geheime Verschlusssache GVS-Nr. A 456 721 (GDR) S 200 WEGA shot down 3 A7 and A6 and 1 F-11Fs (pilot Major Fernando L. Ribas-Dominicci and Captain Paul F. Lorence)
            1 n f-111Fs, due to a technical malfunction, landed at the air force base Rota, Spain. (Americans say tech. N. And Syrians on damage from the S-200, radar records do not confirm)
            Intelligence provided by SR-71 Blackbird from British base Mildenhall


            Quote: Uncle Seryozha
            The radars were so strangled by the "music" they switched on

            This is the wrong translation:
            These effectively suppressed the Flat Face, Low Blow, Straight Flush, Fan Song and possibly Land Roll acquisition radars associated with the Soviet supplied SA-3 Goa, SA-6 Gainful, SA-2 Guideline and SA-8 Gecko surface to air missile systems located in Tripoli and Benghazi.

            S-200D flight test report under the influence of covering interference and for the group of directors of flickering interference (topic 8.11.88)

            The result of "work" PRR HARM (all released, not only for the C-200, about 30 pieces)
    2. terp 50
      +1
      10 January 2013 05: 20
      ... well, they had GOS from s - 500
  44. 0
    9 January 2013 20: 30
    I wonder how many amers swelled into the rubber of bombs and rockets?
    1. postman
      +5
      9 January 2013 22: 32
      Quote: Bosk
      I wonder how many amers swelled into the rubber of bombs and rockets?

      I will reassure you, NOR MUCH.
      This is nonsense (article)
      1. 0
        10 January 2013 01: 11
        In general, I agree there are dumb moments .... stationary anti-aircraft installations on tactics should first be destroyed by the Tamagavkas ... and only then after confirmation of the destruction the ironing of the surroundings begins with aviation .... it's a pity that such a positive disappeared ...
        1. postman
          +1
          10 January 2013 19: 48
          Quote: Bosk
          there are dumb moments.

          Yes, not the moments. And THE WHOLE ARTICLE IS DIRECT - a shame.
          I wrote, those who write such a heresy (and clumsy, such as talking heads here) will be considered half-Durks (and they count).
          I will translate it (the article) (there will be time) into and send it to the RAF (here: [email protected]). Let them make fun.
          It’s a pity that the German tornado was not, everything is simpler.
          THIS ARTICLE was to be printed on April 01. The most that.

          Quote: Bosk
          first destroyed by the Tamahawks.

          F-117A (at night) IF S-200 WOULD BE IN Iraq (there were none)


          Quote: Bosk
          sorry such a positive is gone ...


          Yes there is a LIT and a normal positivist (see below)
          What's this? And where? (Do you know?) And you can see that no FIGA (you can continue to work)
        2. postman
          +1
          10 January 2013 20: 09
          Quote: Bosk
          sorry such a positive is gone ...

          And this:










          unfortunately - negative (no "chick"), real
          (My brother conquered three years with the same lads (Air Force) for three years, there was always an opinion: feed was not in the horse.
          It would be better if both they started and continued with Israel.
  45. Tungsten
    +4
    9 January 2013 21: 48
    What a fever delirium.
    S-200s were never transmitted to Iraq. The Americans do not have 100mm guns and all the more so no one in their right mind will arm the S-5.
    The author of the blog that he referred to and considers the story by bike .
    1. postman
      0
      10 January 2013 20: 24
      Quote: Tungsten
      Americans have no 100mm guns

      C'mon, let the author make a mistake (* a bit)
      Let it be "grandma" 105 mm Howitzer M101

      HOT Nonsense is:
      Quote: Author
      we shot television mode.

      5B21 * !!!
      From K9M Probably .....
      Here are the unsuccessful Ukrainians at Cape Opuk, and then probably forgot about it.

      It was possible to subtract "gXdezh" like that.
  46. sailor76
    -3
    9 January 2013 23: 12
    Honor and glory to the officer, he wiped everyone, but with the arguments, gentlemen, it’s better to sit on the toilet with newspapers
    1. +2
      9 January 2013 23: 14
      The officer is invented, so you can continue to sit on the toilet with a newspaper and admire ...
      1. sailor76
        -5
        10 January 2013 11: 26
        Again, what the fictional officer is is an argument so you should sit with the newspaper
        1. +2
          10 January 2013 11: 31
          Hamster, it was immediately clear that the article per kilometer is a lie, so don’t be puffed.
          1. sailor76
            -1
            10 January 2013 11: 41
            Everyone stayed with their luck sir
    2. postman
      +2
      10 January 2013 20: 24
      Quote: Sailor76
      gentlemen, we better sit on the toilet with newspapers

      To you, only to you.
  47. Drugar
    +4
    9 January 2013 23: 29
    The article is a beautiful fairy tale and nothing more. Moreover, it was written specifically for this site, on the other hand, you can’t forbid powdering your brains ...
    1. Uncle Serozha
      +5
      10 January 2013 00: 07
      Quote: Drugar
      The article is a beautiful fairy tale and nothing more.

      If! The fairy tale was composed quite ineptly, moreover, by a person who had never really worked on the S-200 and who did not even imagine approximately the circuit solutions of this complex. What commentators, more or less familiar with the two-hundred materiel, immediately noticed. smile

      Quote: Drugar
      on the other hand, you can’t forbid powdering your brains ...

      Really not forbidden. On the other hand, it is a shame that this resource is turning into a collection of "materials" of this kind. At the same time, there is a huge number of hamsters who thoughtlessly add to this nonsense and are ready to believe both in the 5P72 "traveling on rails", and in the "TV shooting mode" on the S-200, and even in the fact that it is capable of intercepting a target at an altitude of 70 m.
      Here's a type of this:
      Quote: Sailor76
      Honor and glory to the officer, he wiped everyone, but with the arguments, gentlemen, it’s better to sit on the toilet with newspapers
      1. Drugar
        +3
        10 January 2013 00: 18
        On the other hand, it is a shame that this resource is turning into a collection of "materials" of this kind. At the same time, there is a huge number of hamsters who thoughtlessly add to this nonsense and are ready to believe both in the 5P72 "traveling on rails", and in the "TV shooting mode" on the S-200, and even in the fact that it is capable of intercepting a target at an altitude of 70 m.

        But how such articles excite the minds of some readers, after all, it's like a drug, so many, apparently, are not able to get such excitement in real life. And such materials are becoming more and more because the demand for them, unfortunately, is great, especially among rabid "patriots" ...
        1. terp 50
          +1
          10 January 2013 05: 40
          ... say the same GOS from S - 500, and they not only traveled by rails, they could also embroider a cross ...
  48. terp 50
    0
    10 January 2013 05: 36
    ... ,, Streletskie tales ,, Kozma Kryuchkova
  49. PAC3
    +1
    10 January 2013 07: 11
    Yes, the author - scammed).
    And 5P72 on rails. And the definition of what brought down the Tornado (this is at the maximum distance) - probably the debris went and looked Galaxy in the version of the ganship)
    However, the patriotic "people grabbing".
    Avon this pseudo-science fiction is already roaming the tyrnet)
    The one who saw the real S-200, then was more present while this almost eight-ton crap leaves with the PU - when reading it, only laughs.
    1. Guun
      -1
      10 January 2013 10: 53
      Hmm, you probably still believe that in the Afghan mountains the amers suffer the smallest losses from losses. The super army is simply invincible, but it’s just embarrassing that the Taliban cannot be beaten out of the mountains for how many years now? They’re only sitting near Kabul and shooting at the shepherds from the trenches sniper rifles and give out oooh liquidated a group of Taliban. I personally saw how such a group of brave warriors from the United States of 40 goals + 12 Afghan armies was destroyed in 10 plus or minus a couple of minutes, how do you ask? These narrow-minded people walked along a path around a mountain the shelters were in stretch marks and unpleasant traps, as soon as the machine gun began to crush them, they ran into these prepared shelters, minus 70% of the squad, then went down and finished them off. There were only 5 Taliban in the ambush. How did I get there? Secret.
      1. Uncle Serozha
        +2
        10 January 2013 15: 34
        Quote: Guun
        How did I get there? Secret.

        To narcologists he is known. wink
  50. -1
    10 January 2013 10: 48
    humpbacked Judas, we all remember ... In the history of our country you, bitch, will forever remain as the most recent !!
    1. +1
      10 January 2013 23: 23
      Can you tell me where you can buy a lumberjack and where to get a visa to the UK?
  51. 0
    10 January 2013 14: 49
    Guun, why wasn’t the ambush discovered? How did the thermal imagers of the infantrymen's uniforms turn off?
  52. Ingvald_Bueny
    +1
    10 January 2013 15: 09
    This is not a story, but a fable. It's strange that it was posted in this section.
  53. +3
    10 January 2013 17: 07
    It’s high time that the marked one was judged not only for the fact that he sold our friends and allies, but also for the fact that he sold his country, his people, his army, and as warriors, they are complete crap and our equipment is much better and more reliable. My uncle was also a tanker in Iraq in 91 I told my life how our 72 with Iraqi crews rolled the vaunted Abrams into a pile of scrap metal
  54. asf32wesdg
    0
    10 January 2013 18: 40
    It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://sho.rtlink.de/FS62Am database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...
  55. gas
    gas
    0
    11 January 2013 14: 54
    Thank you for the article!
  56. +1
    11 January 2013 14: 55
    Good essay. You can give it a five.
    But why pass off THIS FICTION as the truth?
    But for a child, this is forgivable.
  57. +1
    11 January 2013 16: 06
    About the Iraqis' inflatable equipment. I remembered an article in some newspaper (mid-90s, it seems) on this topic. There were photos of T-72 dummies. The headline was something like "How Saddam fooled the coalition." It talked about how Iraq ordered inflatable simulators of military equipment (tanks, various launchers) to a certain Italian company, allegedly for use during exercises. These products were not included in the list of goods prohibited for sale to Iraq. The cost of just one inflatable T-72 was approximately $10. The manufacturing company earned very good money. So Saddam cheated the Amers quite a lot in terms of financial expenses. And the destroyed inflatable equipment was taken into account by the Americans (they are also the skirmishers of Desert Storm) as actually destroyed military equipment. So doubts about the presence of an “inflatable army” in Iraq at that time can be safely dismissed, because At that time there were no online communities where such issues could be discussed. As for the main topic of the article, it’s a fairy tale, and that’s all. But, as they say, A FAIRY TALE IS A LIE, AND THERE IS A HINT IN IT, A LESSON FOR GOOD YOUNG PEOPLE. It was interesting to read the statements of knowledgeable members of the forum on this subject - I myself served in the MPR (Choir) 81-82 in the 70th air defense brigade, where they were armed with the Krug air defense system. True, in a repair company, but I can imagine the complexity of moving launchers, SOC and SNR underground. Suffice it to remember how many cables needed to be stretched from the SNR to the adjustment tower to adjust 4 SNR antennas (every month another division took over for combat duty and all the equipment was adjusted before the deployment). Regarding the possible and the impossible. Somewhere in the late 80s, Komsomolskaya Pravda (at that time there was still a normal newspaper) had a column called “The Unknown War.” There were memories of our officer in Vietnam as an adviser on air defense systems (I think they were S-75), which the USSR supplied there during the US aggression. The Vietnamese needed technical training, but their mentors had a lot to learn about strategy and tactics. They camouflaged absolutely everything - equipment, paths, roads. Once, even a rocket left the launch pad, all covered with branches (in the heat of the moment, they forgot to remove it and saw it when there were seconds left before the launch). No problem. The tactics were interesting. At that time, barreled air defense, in connection with the advent of missiles, was looked at as a kind of anachronism. According to intelligence data, an anti-aircraft missile battery was secretly moving into a certain area (American attack aircraft or bombers were supposed to fly through this area). Visual observation points located far away detected the approach of targets. The radars turned on. Based on certain characteristics, they determined the “bait” (usually some kind of light aircraft - I don’t want to worry about which ones in NET). They let her through. Next came, for example, a pair of F-4s. The launch was carried out one by one - below, the non-ferrous metal collectors were already anticipating a good profit (just kidding). After this, the second aircraft was retargeted to the launcher position. After some period of time, a second launch was carried out - at a pretty penny, to hell with the middle of nowhere, if only the second plane responded to this particular launch. And that’s exactly what happened. The location of the second launch was more clearly visible, the pilot turned and... got into a very good position for a barreled anti-aircraft gun (DShK, ZU-23-2, etc.). A short burst - and the second plane turned into burning falling rubbish. And here we had to quickly “get on our feet” and the time was about 30 minutes maximum. And whoever hesitated had every chance of getting into the land of the Eternal Hunt, because... The Amers' intelligence was excellent. And the Vietnamese “barrel guns” trained 8 times a day: in 3 seconds they had to turn their barrels 180 degrees and “work out” a rubber model that moved along one of a bunch of stretched cables...
  58. 0
    12 January 2013 19: 05
    Well done!!!!!!
  59. +2
    23 February 2016 06: 50
    This publication is fake. negative Written, moreover, by a stupid, poorly educated person. fool S-200 in Iraq It never happened. We supplied S-75 and S-125 there.

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