The Russian Ka-52M attack helicopter will be equipped with a ventral all-round radar

The Russian Ka-52M attack helicopter will be able to conduct round-the-clock all-weather reconnaissance, as well as provide target designation to other vehicles. According to an informed source, the helicopter will be equipped with a new all-round radar.

The attack Ka-52M will be equipped with a ventral all-round radar station, thereby significantly expanding its combat capabilities. Work in this direction is already underway; in the near future, a helicopter with a new radar will be tested in combat conditions in a special operation zone. It is planned that the new radar will allow helicopters to conduct round-the-clock and all-weather reconnaissance, while simultaneously providing target designation. and also hit subtle targets.

Ka-52M attack helicopters will receive a new all-round radar operating in the centimeter range. These stations will allow helicopters to detect a wide range of air and ground targets, such as enemy aircraft, helicopters and UAVs, armored vehicles, artillery positions, concentrations of manpower and other military objects, including in high-detail radio vision mode

- leads RIA News source words.

Today, the Ka-52 attack helicopter is the main rotorcraft of the army. aviation in the special operation zone. The vehicle showed great effectiveness in destroying enemy armored vehicles and personnel, while proving the reliability of its design.

The first batch of modernized Ka-52M helicopters entered the Russian army at the beginning of this year. The modernized Ka-52M received a new radar, sighting system and new weapons. Recently, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu called on designers to continue improving the vehicle, paying more attention to crew protection.

Comments

[Revolver]

Ventral? Those. he puts himself on display for everyone who wants to shoot, from the Stinger to the gun RPG. And the Apache has had an over-hub one since the last century, and the reason why it is needed should be clear even to the stupid.

[Olaf Uksimae]

Ai Ai Yai, our design bureaus are not looking for specialists there, they are all sitting here on the site, geniuses of expediency, combat use, and even the theory of radio wave propagation in various environments.

[dmmyak40]

And where do you propose to install the above-hub radar? For a coaxial circuit?

[Bad_gr]

Quote: dmmyak40

And where do you propose to install the above-hub radar? For a coaxial circuit?

Installing a locator above the screws is not a problem (we already installed a small one).

Where should she look: along the horizon and up?
And this is for a helicopter that operates on the ground. Under the helicopter is the best place for her.

[SkyMaXX]

We've already tried it. It turned out to be unsuccessful, too much vibration occurs and the radar does not work correctly.

[Diger]

Quote: Nagan

Those. he puts himself on display for everyone who wants to shoot, from the Stinger to the gun RPG

and how will the stinger and the gun RPG view it? do they have a radio wave receiver?

Quote: Nagan

And the Apache has had an over-sleeve since the last century,

Resonance phenomena may occur at frequencies equal to the rotational speed of the main rotor on the receiving path of the antenna + rotor EPR.
The over-sleeve one is good when you can stick the radar out from behind a hump
And so

Not really.
Maybe it’s all because the Apache has a radio frequency interferometer in the hub dome along with the radar?

and the Ka-52 (and M) under the radar will have 2 rotors rotating in opposite directions?

[D16]

If the optical station was removed in Russia, instead of the current radar, then why not? Although its viewing angles will be greatly limited.

[Saburov_Alexander53]

The author of the article should have indicated the installation location of this radar under the fuselage. In photographs of the K-52 we see that there is already an optical guidance unit under the fuselage. There is only a place left behind it and the entire “belly” becomes overgrown with such “warts”, which of course does not improve the aerodynamics of the helicopter. but apparently, life forces you to sacrifice aerodynamics for the sake of survivability. Hopefully we'll see what it looks like in real life soon.

[Des]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

The author of the article should have indicated the installation location of this radar under the fuselage.

so there is no author), this is news. At least the + and - of different radar locations in brief.

[AAK]

On some modifications of the Ka-52, the optical-location unit was placed on top of the roof of the cockpit; also, as an option, it can be mounted in the forward part of the fuselage instead of the “Crossbow”, it will be like that of the “Apache”, but as for the above-hub location of the radar in a coaxial diagram screws, then EMNIP does not yet have such a technical solution

[Diger]

Quote: Saburov_Alexander53

The author of the article should have indicated the installation location of this radar under the fuselage.

better - on the fuselage (or in containers on the pylons)

Side-scanning radars for manned and unmanned aerial vehicles

Radar V006 (RZ-001) “M” should already have a forward-looking “cutter”

or “don’t reinvent” the wheel and make a retractable one (as needed) like this

Only question:
Why does an ATTACK helicopter need an all-round radar and why make it a SCOUT?

[bayard]

Quote from Digger

Why does an ATTACK helicopter need an all-round radar and why make it a SCOUT?

Apparently because there is nothing else. And there is no base for a normal AWACS helicopter. The General Staff apparently decided that in “hybrid wars” such radar reconnaissance and target designation systems would not be required. Therefore, having delivered several dozen AWACS helicopters to China and India for the native Ministry of Defense... only TWO such helicopters were left as part of the Kuznetsov air wing. And even those are most likely not ready for combat due to their age.
And then, as luck would have it, the SVO arrived. And it turned out that the Little Army did not have the required minimum of AWACS aircraft, much less AWACS helicopters. Who knew that PMV would need to be monitored to detect missiles and UAVs? Conduct counter-battery reconnaissance for the purpose of counter-battery warfare? For this purpose, there were no classical ground artillery reconnaissance stations in any acceptable quantity... But the North Military District came, which was not a war at all, and it turned out that the Army... needed?? Here come the paleotives.
The message contains zero details about what kind of side-view radar this is, but the fact that among the goals and objectives is the detection of air targets (airplanes, helicopters, UAVs, missiles and shells for artillery reconnaissance for suppression purposes), one gets the impression that this a pretty decent radar, maybe even something like the one found on the modernized Ka-27M. If this is so, then the radar is really good, has a good detection range for both air and ground/surface targets, and since it will be mounted on an attack helicopter, many of the detected targets can be destroyed by it using standard weapons.
And yet, it is better to make an AWACS helicopter on the basis of a normal helicopter - transport or anti-submarine. Until recently, the Ka-32 was produced in Ulan-Ude in very small batches or individually for the Ministry of Emergency Situations and export. It’s possible on its basis. And the powerful side-view radar under the belly of the strike Ka-52M... is still a paleo. Although in the current conditions it can and most likely will be very useful.

[lukash66]

Quote: Nagan

Ventral? Those. he puts himself on display for everyone who wants to shoot, from the Stinger to the gun RPG. And the Apache has had an over-hub one since the last century, and the reason why it is needed should be clear even to the stupid.

Well, as if with Apache there is one small difference in the form of a coaxial diagram. The Mi28NM already has it.

[KCA]

Wow, MANPADS and RPGs have radar detection sensors? Or a ventral radar the size of two KA-52Ms, and it will be visually detected 10 km away? I don't understand what you meant

[sifgame]

A typical sofa expert, “understanding,” and “knowledgeable,” more than the military and the designer

[Fintiflushkin]

Centimeter range??? I remember back in 2016 or 2017 they told us that “Russian helicopters will be able to find wedding rings in the forest after installing new radars operating in the millimeter range.”
Where is the money?

[Soldatov V.]

This looks like a reincarnation or modernization of the ship-based AWACS KA-31 helicopter. If the target detection range is no less than that of the A-50 or A-100, then it will be great. It will work without entering the air defense zone.

[Fintiflushkin]

Quote: V.

This looks like a reincarnation or modernization of the ship-based AWACS KA-31 helicopter. If the target detection range is no less than that of the A-50 or A-100, then it will be great. It will work without entering the air defense zone.

Well, if so, then it’s clear: a flying radar like the A-50.
This is not clear from the article itself - we can conclude that we are talking about a standard airborne radar.
I immediately remembered the seven-year-old miscarriages “a new millimeter-wave radar will find a wedding ring in the forest” and “in Russia they will create a radio-photonic radar - it will be possible to recognize a pilot on an airplane.”
But I still want to ask those scribblers: how is it going? Did you find a lot of wedding rings in the forest? many pilots in enemy aircraft were identified by facial features obtained by radio-photon radar?

[Ezekiel 25-17]

Dill is good in soup and nothing else.

[PROXOR]

In other words, in the absence of the Ka-27 and Ka-29, we are making an AWACS helicopter based on the Ka-52. We remove the bump of the camera block, and hang the PTB on the pylons. It remains to be hoped that the navigator will be able to single-handedly resolve the issue of working with the data received from the radar.

[Soldatov V.]

The thought then occurred to me, what if a landing or passenger compartment or a cabin for a squad or platoon of Marines was attached to the KA-52 under the fuselage. It may be possible to calculate the weight of weapons and fighters.

[PROXOR]

Or maybe we should stop fussing and finish the Ka-92 Lamprey. The Ka-52 is an attack vehicle. And hanging under the belly of his radar is not a good life.

[Galleon]

Rebov's MI-8AMTSh can barely fly, they put so much on it, I know this from the commander of such an eight. I hope that conclusions will be drawn from this experience. In any case, the combat qualities of the Ka-52 will decrease. There will be a radar patrol helicopter without the letter D. Well, that’s good. Dozens of such machines are needed.
In general, this is an admission that the industry cannot provide a normal airframe for radar. The navigator will now have to become a radar operator, “he’s not busy anyway.” He will be happy... I would like to hope that these machines in their new quality will be taken care of and the pilots will not be sent to attack.

[Yuras_Belarus]

Most of the problems with aircraft-based radars are the size of the radar array. No matter how you minimize the electronics, the grille must be large, and this worsens the flight properties of the devices. I think that the only way out is to create a distributed system, where several planes and helicopters, coupled with UAVs, could organize a flexible radar network. But here everything depends on the low speed of construction of aircraft.

[Diger]

quotes RIA Novosti words the source

source to the studio.
I don’t understand the point of reprinting anonymous nonsense from RIA
https://ria.ru/20231011/ka-52m-1901900875.html

How will a 52-degree radar make the Ka-XNUMXM an all-weather, XNUMX-hour reconnaissance aircraft?

Why make the KA-52M, which is expensive and produced in small quantities, a “reconnaissance aircraft,” when there is a much cheaper, less noticeable one that flies without 2 crew members (very expensive and takes a long time to train)

or is he not there?
The only helicopter all-round radar that is capable of producing RF (and even then doubts gnaw) is the H025 over-the-hub radar

/so-so old/
Yes, above the hub: resonance phenomena at frequencies equal to the rotor speed
but shove it under the belly
after all, they seemed to be honored and promised to equip (and even installed) the B006 “Rezec” radar from the Zaslon company (from St. Petersburg):
AFAR with 640 transceiver modules. X-band. 35 miles(!)

[Whip]

Quote from Digger

How will a 52-degree radar make the Ka-XNUMXM an all-weather, XNUMX-hour reconnaissance aircraft?

It is understood that a helicopter with such a radar will be able to issue target designations, for example, to helicopters without a radar,
He detected a target using radar, transmitted the coordinates to another helicopter without radar, another helicopter flew closer to the target, detected it and aimed using its own radar.
And it is said that the radar that will be installed will see further than the on-board radar of the helicopter, and the ability to detect and recognize targets with the radar is better than with the radar.
Those. One helicopter will be able to control large areas.
And such a helicopter with radar can quickly take the necessary areas under radar control.

Quote from Digger

there is one that is much cheaper and less noticeable

You can’t place a “decent” radar on a small drone,
The larger the radar antenna, the better, plus the detection and recognition range also requires more energy.

[Diger]

Quote: Whip

It is understood that a helicopter with such a radar will be able to issue target designations, for example, to helicopters without a radar,

there the above-hub instrumental range is up to 18 km
and the newest B006 “Rezec” radar with AFAR is in theory 35 miles (they didn’t specify which ones)
and what kind of attack helicopters in the Russian Federation do not have radar?
already in 2011 "Phasatron Research Institute" based on the results of 2011 deliveries of helicopter radars amounted to about 70% of the total number of aviation radars
What does “implied” mean in the “source” it is written: all-weather, XNUMX-hour reconnaissance vehicle!
and why "all-round view"? Is he looking for periscopes and submarine snorkels at sea?

Quote: Whip

You can’t place a “decent” radar on a small drone,

do not write nonsense

2012: digital small-sized dual-band dual-purpose radar MF-2 “Kogitor” (MBRL-MF2).

Have you flown in helicopters? The vibrations and resonant frequencies of the rotor alone destroy all the accuracy of a helicopter radar.

[Whip]

Quote from Digger

MBRLS-MF2

Yes, they say the range is not bad (though it’s unclear what the range is) up to 160 km,
But what is visible is not an import-substituted product.

Quote from Digger

there the above-hub instrumental range is up to 18 km

They write about the ventral radar; the visibility of the lower hemisphere will be better.

Quote from Digger

do not write nonsense

Antenna dimensions and transmitter power are not nonsense,
Plus, to process the signal on board, you need space and energy for a computing complex (domestic),
And it probably turns out to be a load that even an average drone cannot handle.

A helicopter with such a radar (about which they write about the ventral one) will react faster - it detected the target and hit it,
It will be more resistant to electronic warfare than a drone (in our current conditions, when we don’t have much satellite communication channels for drones).
Plus a radar operator on board is always more effective than an operator on the ground.

[Diger]

Quote: Whip

it’s really unclear what the range is

instrumental, they always write like that.
160 km is nonsense. Let us remember the basic equation of radar: the burdock is painfully small.
Let's hope that they have replaced imports (in China)

Quote: Whip

They write about the ventral radar; the visibility of the lower hemisphere will be better.

so what will they put there? AFAR is not rotatable, there is nothing except this old lady

Quote: Whip

Antenna dimensions and transmitter power are not nonsense,

so where can I get them?
remove from Ka-31?
Where will you shove the TA-8K and GT60P48B and fuel?

Quote: Whip

will react faster - detected the target and hit,

How long will he patrol in the air? 1 hour? What is the cost of this hour?
vs 12-18 hours

Quote: Whip

Will be more resistant to electronic warfare than a drone

show me the impact of analogue Russian electronic warfare on drones (don’t suggest all sorts of fallen FPV-type crap with a communication range of the radio horizon, without encryption and with a non-directional channel)

Quote: Whip

Plus a radar operator on board is always more effective than an operator on the ground.

I really doubt it (eat, pee, vibrations, tired), the cost of a navigator (+ pilot): find, train, knocked 8 years down the drain, “women don’t hurt”
meaning?
The on-board communications complex (BCS) serves to provide closed and open telecode communications, transmitting the tactical situation in a formalized form from the RTK to command posts. BCS operates in the HF, MB and UHF frequency ranges. The transmission of telecode information from helicopter flight altitudes of 1500 - 3500 m to recipients is guaranteed at ranges of at least 150 km.
--------------------------------------------
a flying repeater will perfectly replace a satellite (and I’m not sure that Rogozin’s team implemented the transfer of control to an aircraft with feedback through the Russian satellite constellation... if only because it practically does not exist.)

[Whip]

It seems to me that there is no MBRLS-MF2 (or similar) now and it is unclear when it will appear, and they probably decided that it would be more realistic and faster to make a helicopter with a ventral radar,
Most likely this is an intermediate temporary solution (a helicopter with such a radar).

And of course, a drone with MBRLS-MF2 plus secure communication channels, this is what we should strive for.

[Diger]

Quote: Whip

Most likely this is an intermediate temporary solution (a helicopter with such a radar).

Most likely, the “informed” source got something wrong or is an idiot, so he published this Bret too...journalism in one word.
"Why does a goat need an accordion"?

[JD1979]

I’m wondering where the pink ponies got the idea that they were going to make an AWACS helicopter out of the Ka-52? There is not even a hint of this in the text))) But it is clear that fantasies, and most importantly, persistence in upholding, nothing is an obstacle)

[barbos]

I think this site talked about this many years ago. I understand perfectly well that designers should not take technical solutions from VO’s comments. This idea alone has been floating around for almost a decade. It is possible that in the design bureau itself it was repeatedly voiced and pushed aside as delusional. Only war has its own concepts and meanings.

[TermNachTer]

Well, I don’t think it’s necessary to explain to anyone what the meaning of the above-hub radar is. But why the ventral? Wouldn't it be easier to place it inside the case?

[bone1]

Why not place the radar, like everyone else, above the propeller hub?

[Mapping]

We see the development of the KA-52 helicopter, they tell us about work in the northwestern military zone. But about the MI-28 there is very little information about work in the NWO zone. Fragmentary information. Why??

[Zaurbek]

What I don’t understand is why?
They announced an AFAR in the nose cone... there is also a mechanical adjustment of the antenna and electronic scanning. In theory, what was announced should be done by a medium-large UAV with a radar under its belly or an aircraft like Tu204RTs and the data should be transmitted to recipients in real mode. The Ka52M on the front flies high, what will it overlook?
So again we drank something and made AWACS out of everything. By the way, there is a ready-made Ka27 with a locator under the “Belly”