Military Review

Black Sea: what Russia will demonstrate in January

196
According to the Office of the Press Service and Information of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, at the end of January in the waters of the Black and Mediterranean Seas will pass exercises of the inter-fleet grouping of the Russian Navy with the involvement of the forces of the Northern, Baltic, Black Sea and Pacific Fleets.

"The main purpose of the exercises is to work out the issues of creating an interspecific grouping of forces (troops) outside the Russian Federation, planning its use, as well as performing joint actions as part of the united group of the Navy according to a single plan."




Now the operational groups of ships are moving to the areas of the exercise. Within the framework of large-scale exercises, tactical episodes will be drawn to load the personnel of the Marine Corps and Airborne Forces units into the landing craft from the unequipped coast of the North Caucasus.

Preparations for marine activities were carried out by all fleets Russia since December last year. It provided for the reconnaissance of the training areas, the implementation of preparatory command post exercises with elements of fire training, as well as anti-piracy and anti-terrorist activities.

As explained RIA "News»At the Directorate of the Press Service and Information of the Ministry of Defense, a exercise of this magnitude is being held for the first time in decades.

In the press, including foreign, in January, there were notes and articles related to the teachings on the Syrian theme. If our Ministry of Defense did not mention the connection of the January exercises with the Syrian conflict, the journalists immediately began to compete in the search for a "Tartu trace."

The fact is that at the end of December the big landing ship of the Black Sea Fleet "Novocherkassk" out in the sea from Novorossiysk and headed for Tartus. Two more BDK ("Azov" and "Nikolay Filchenkov") of December 28 passed the Strait zone and in the Aegean Sea joined the detachment of the Black Sea Fleet ships. From there, the Russian ships with marines and military equipment on board, accompanied by the guards missile cruiser "Moscow" also went to Tartus.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation has a plan for the evacuation of Russian citizens from Syria in case of aggravation of the situation there. Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov, back in mid-December, confirmed to the Public Chamber that Russia has "mobilization plans." True, the case of applying these plans "has not yet come."

Moreover, landing ships are unlikely to be engaged in evacuating citizens: the BDK can take on no more than three hundred people on board, and only if there is no reinforced marines company there.

Military specialist stories, candidate of historical sciences Alexey Isaev commented on the situation as follows:

"The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of performing any global tasks; in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in seconds."


According to the expert, the exercises are necessary to maintain the fleet’s combat capability. The Russian fleet is able to participate in peacekeeping operations and in the protection of sea trade routes from pirates. Events on the Mediterranean and Black Seas, the specialist believes, are not intended to demonstrate the forces of NATO or the United States. According to him, the ships that descended from the shipyards of Russia in recent years, mainly intended for the Far East. Therefore, Russia may try to make an impression on Japan or China, but not on America.

What do foreigners write on this topic?

Perhaps, in a generalized form, Western opinions are presented in the journal "Wired", in an article from January 3 2013 of the year (by Robert Beckhusen).

The Russian fleet, the author writes, plans to hold the largest military exercises, possibly the largest since the collapse of the USSR. What do Russians want? Of course, Vladimir Putin wants to play with military muscles, demonstrate military might. But, the journalist notes, the teachings can also pursue the goal of delicately warning the USA: they say, you, Misters, stay away from salt water, traditionally located in the sphere of Russian influence.

Referring to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the American writes with trepidation about the unity of all four fleets of the Russian Federation: Northern, Baltic, Black Sea and Pacific. Immediately, he reports on the grandiose plans of Comrade Putin: to spend up to 2020 of the year 659 billion on weapons buildup. Russia is going to increase the power of the Navy. By 2016, the fleet will have 18 new warships, as well as 30 special purpose vessels and anti-sabotage defenses. This is along with six new submarines. One of these ships, the Borey-class ship (Yury Dolgoruky), has already joined the fleet this week.

However, it seems “strange” for a journalist to choose a region of exercises. Black and Mediterranean seas? Therefore, the Russians are preparing to evacuate their citizens from Syria (there are, according to various estimates, from 9000 to 30000 people). Perhaps, the author of the article suggests, the situation in Syria, where the civil war continues, is about to deteriorate sharply.

The author puts forward another hypothesis. Russia has much more solid reasons for demonstrating force in the named region. Politicians in Moscow, who are able to look keenly and see far away, believe that the Black Sea is under threat.

Back in November, a journalist, Anna Glazova, a military analyst from the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies, continued her thoughts, argued in the National Defense magazine that the United States was trying to "take the Black Sea region under military control." The installation of missile defense systems in Turkey and Romania does not pursue the stated goals at all (to shoot down Iranian missiles), but is focused on the Russian threat. Romania and Bulgaria joined NATO in 2004, and in the eyes of Moscow, this actually meant that the Americans took control of the west coast of the Black Sea. This writes Glazov.

This, according to Mr. Beckhusen, is said too much. After all, the United States, he notes, is limited to the contract from 1936 of the year, which also regulates the number of warships that can pass through the Turkish-controlled Bosphorus, and the length of their stay in the waters of the Black Sea.

True, if you look at it from the other side, over the past two years, American cruisers equipped with Aidzhis missile defense systems have visited Ukrainian and Georgian ports.

What does all this mean? Georgian question? The confrontation between the United States and Russia over Georgia? .. The Black Sea, located in the “backyard” of Russia, is perfect for such a drama.

No, the author writes, the United States is not going to send an aircraft carrier to the sea to help Georgia in the event of a new war. This is a historical argument in favor of this: during the short war of 2008 between Georgia and Russia, the Pentagon planned to send two floating hospitals to the sea, but both of them were blocked by Turkey. Istanbul does not allow military vessels with a displacement of more than 45000 tons in the Black Sea; the prohibition applies only to countries not bordering on it.

It remains to assume that this is a “big show” that Russia is up to in order to counteract the relative decline in its influence.

Jim Holmes, associate professor of strategy at the Naval College, states:

"... This is all for the sake of demonstrating that Russia remains a sea power to be reckoned with."


At the end of this month, Beckhusen writes, we will get the opportunity to see to what extent this is needed. Also, according to the observer, it will be interesting to see if Putin has any surprises in hand ...

The above-mentioned Anna Glazova, head of the Middle East’s sector of the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies, Ph.D. November article about the security of the Black Sea region wrote about the security issue in connection with the Middle East Arab revolutions. After all, the Black Sea region turned out to be a buffer separating Russia from the seizure of the Islamic world. Neither the naval operational interaction group BLACKSEAFOR (today it is a real unifying force capable of solving serious security problems; this bloc is called “club” by A. Glazov’s block) nor the Black Sea Economic Cooperation Organization ( BSEC): the last goal of the activity is economic. And as a result, the absence of regional mechanisms to guarantee the stability and security of the Black Sea region, according to Glazova, leads to the fact that other players - first of all, the US and the EU - are beginning to resolve these issues.

According to Glazov, after the entry of Romania and Bulgaria into NATO and the creation of naval bases on the coast of the two countries, the Americans actually gained control of the western Black Sea region. Now, under the pretext of ensuring European security, they have begun to deploy missile defense systems in Romania and Turkey. The US Navy ships, in particular, the Ticonderoga type missile cruisers and the Arleigh Burke type destroyers, the analyst writes, appear regularly in the Black Sea.

“A concrete manifestation of this was the regular presence of US warships in the Black Sea with calls at the ports of Georgia and Ukraine, including Sevastopol, where the Russian Navy is based.

So, for the period from June 2011 to February 2012, three rocket cruisers of the Ticonderoga type of the 6 of the US operational fleet were here: Monterey (June 2011), Philippine Sea (October 2011) and Vella Gulf (end of January - early February 2012). All three cruisers are known to be equipped with the Aegis missile defense system and carry cruise missiles. ”


Glazov continues:

“In this context, it is possible that the US may try to use the recent political rapprochement with Turkey and increase pressure on Ankara to revise the Montreux Convention. In this case, the US Navy ships will have the opportunity to freely pass through the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles and be in the Black Sea basin without time limits. ”


At the same time, the analyst writes, the United States is strengthening its military presence in Georgia. There is information that a secret airfield was built in Marneuli (with the participation of the US military), and construction of a base for submarines is planned in Kulevi. In the southeast of Georgia, about 30 military hospitals were built according to standard American projects, for which 5 billion dollars were allocated.

Glazov recalls that if the Turkish Navy today has 14 submarines, then Russia has only one in the Black Sea Fleet.

At present, we recall that when the Patriots are placed at the Turkish-Syrian border, literally requested by Turkey from NATO (probably in exchange for the cessation of Turkish vetoing in the North Atlantic Alliance of Israel), the Americans have even a miserable, but a chance to bargain from Ankara that -or more - the same revision of the Montreux Convention. In this case, the American Black Sea threat will become a reality. In this context, the task of admitting Georgia to NATO is almost an issue. And fraternal America will be closer than ever to Russia.

It is naive to think that people in the Kremlin do not understand all this. And once they understand, they make it clear to their geopolitical "friends": we are here, we see everything. Look at us. Yes, we are far from being as strong as in the days of the glorious USSR, but you are now cringing, and we are moving forward. And we have time for it: Turkey is not eager to let your big ships pass through the Bosphorus, and China also distracts you.

Thus, the large Russian naval exercises in the Black and Mediterranean seas should be considered not just “carrying out joint actions as part of the united group of the Navy”, but precisely fulfilling them “according to a single plan”, that is, a strategic plan.

Observed and translated by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
196 comments
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  1. Vanek
    Vanek 9 January 2013 09: 25
    +16
    but you're cringing now

    Oleg, they don’t cringe. They cringe.
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 9 January 2013 09: 49
      +28
      Good article! Bad trends on the face! It is also obvious that Russia needs to act! The enemies of our country do not sleep. If this Montreux Convention is revised, Georgia will certainly be admitted to NATO! Something needs to be decided with Georgia! Until the attack! We must not allow the Americans to settle there! Let's see how events with the new minister and the possible resignation of Misha will develop there!
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 09: 58
        +14
        Quote: nycsson
        It is also obvious that Russia needs to act!

        Well, we seem to be walking quietly.
        Quote: nycsson
        If this Montreux Convention is revised, Georgia will certainly be admitted to NATO!

        Yes, they will not accept Georgia into NATO, such a step smacks of a big warrior. Even the US will lobby, the Germans can turn on the rear. They still remember Stalingrad.
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 9 January 2013 10: 10
          +9
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Yes, Georgia will not be accepted into NATO, such a step smacks of a big warrior.

          Why they will not accept, everything goes to this! In the world, a big war has long smelled like! And our task is to prevent the admission of Georgia to NATO, at all costs, even if you have to attack and occupy it! Look, NATO planes patrol airspace in the Baltic states! Marasmus! The flight time to Moscow is 20-30 minutes!
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 10: 30
            +12
            Quote: nycsson
            Why they will not accept, everything goes to this!

            In 2008, the United States intensely lobbied for Georgia to join NATO, but did not drag it. Now, after the war, when Russia begins to show its teeth, a number of European countries will stupidly go to such a step. They have been fed with promises of soon accession, but it’s still there.
            Quote: nycsson
            Look, NATO planes patrol airspace in the Baltic states! Marasmus!

            In a big warrior, these airplanes will not do the weather, it’s rather a political patrol, for the Baltic states themselves. The type is concern for security and protection.
            1. Bubo
              Bubo 9 January 2013 11: 05
              +1
              I share the point of view of Alexander.
            2. Botanologist
              Botanologist 9 January 2013 14: 24
              +5
              In the south-east of Georgia, about 30 military hospitals were built according to typical American projects, for which 5 billion dollars were allocated.

              It seems that they are preparing to carry wounded dogs from Iran. Georgia will not have enough 30 hospitals to fill its troops, even if they are deployed there.
              1. sailor76
                sailor76 12 January 2013 22: 51
                +1
                I think your assumption is just in the top ten.
            3. nycsson
              nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 17
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              but things are still there.

              I'm all for it! God grant that it is as you say! However, no one has yet canceled plans to expand NATO! I don’t think they will give up so easily! hi
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              In a big warrior, these airplanes will not do

              Then I do not agree with you! Aircraft just play a major role, like ships and submarines, i.e. all that. what can carry cruise missiles! hi
            4. Cadet787
              Cadet787 11 January 2013 20: 26
              0
              There is an aggravation of the political situation, in this situation you can expect anything.
          2. Vufel
            Vufel 9 January 2013 11: 42
            +13
            You're right, comrade! Although the term "attack" is not entirely correct in relation to Russia. Russia does not attack, Russia defends itself! Although Poplar is better, Poplar them!
            1. Armata
              Armata 9 January 2013 11: 51
              +2
              Quote: Vufel
              Russia is defending itself! Although it is better Topolkom, Topolkom them!


              these are not states. if there is only one, then we will get the rest. Do you know what a radioactive cloud is?
              1. Vufel
                Vufel 9 January 2013 13: 20
                +6
                "Poplar" is figurative. But you should not substitute your guys under the Jewish-Masonic tackle either!
            2. Goldmitro
              Goldmitro 9 January 2013 13: 40
              +6
              Well, why immediately Topolkom? Why not try modern methods first, for example, instead of the orange revolution, which was already there and the fruits of which the Georgians have already tasted, organize an anti-orange revolution, which will undoubtedly find its supporters in Georgia, plus our support. Or at least organize stable instability within the country. In these cases, NATO itself will not go there!
              1. Vufel
                Vufel 9 January 2013 17: 21
                +3
                Hard there you damned settled! All public organizations under their control. In Georgia, now it’s not the president, then the anti-Russian scum! There is no other way. You can, of course, influence social processes, it takes money and time. We need the money ourselves, but it is unlikely that we have much time - drag, drag Georgia into NATO!
                1. vyatom
                  vyatom 10 January 2013 14: 17
                  0
                  Well, you give Fufel. The main thing is Ukraine has not been dragged into NATO.
            3. nycsson
              nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 20
              0
              Quote: Vufel
              Although the term "attack" is not entirely correct in relation to Russia.

              I agree! That you just noticed!
              Quote: Vufel
              Although it is better Topolkom, Topolkom them!

              Well, it's you in vain!
            4. Sandov
              Sandov 9 January 2013 22: 24
              0
              Quote: Vufel
              missile cruisers of the Ticonderoga type and destroyers of the Arleigh Burke type, the analyst writes, regularly appear in the Black Sea.


              Drown hoopoes - drown.
          3. Armata
            Armata 9 January 2013 11: 49
            +5
            Quote: nycsson
            Look, NATO planes patrol airspace in the Baltic states! Marasmus! Flight time to Moscow 20-30 minutes!
            How much will remain after C300 from the Kaliningrad region works?
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 22
              +2
              Quote: Mechanic
              How much will remain after C300 from the Kaliningrad region works?

              And they will let you work then? Yes, and far away, however!
              1. leon-iv
                leon-iv 10 January 2013 10: 53
                0
                this is the brain vyser.
                And how did you calculate on a google map?
                even a tornado will have to fly half-empty with the PTB; I'm not talking about other small things in the strongest air defense zone.
        2. Hammer
          Hammer 9 January 2013 11: 11
          +17
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          they still remember Stalingrad.


          Oh, your words and ears ... who needs it.
          Here's how not to twist the Turks more likely to unscrew us eggs than we do them.
          “The Bosphorus and their Dardanelles, which means the 6th Fleet may be in our underbelly.”
          - "South Stream", too, will not pass through the Black Sea without their consent.
          - If you wish, Ankara will put pressure on Baku and Karabakh will flare up again, which means Russia is harnessing for Armenia. And the whole Caucasus is the same. Once they deploy a flow of militants from Syria to the North Caucasus.
          And what can Russia really do in return - not let our tourists go to Antalya?
          I do not seek to dramatize the situation, we will somehow be able to survive all these misfortunes. But Turkey is a serious force in this region, and ignoring it will be a big mistake.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 9 January 2013 11: 31
            +15
            Quote: Hammer
            And what can Russia really do in return - not let our tourists go to Antalya?

            By the way, despite the external joke, it is a very serious threat. Almost half of Turkey lives precisely due to tourism and the production of goods for the Russian Federation and Ukraine (well, Turkish builders there). So, when this flow is blocked, Turkey’s econimics will get a kick of SUCH power that the government will fly off the fuck, too many will suffer sharply and tangibly ...
            1. nycsson
              nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 28
              +2
              Quote: Misantrop
              By the way, despite the external joke, quite a serious threat

              Yes, somehow survive!
            2. Yeraz
              Yeraz 9 January 2013 20: 41
              +8
              Quote: Misantrop
              By the way, despite the external joke, it is a very serious threat. Almost half of Turkey lives precisely due to tourism and the production of goods for the Russian Federation and Ukraine (well, Turkish builders there). So, when this flow is blocked, Turkey’s econimics will get a kick of SUCH power that the government will fly off the fuck, too many will suffer sharply and tangibly ...

              I have already opened my eyes to some people a huge stream many times. Turkey’s budget is 225 billion dollars. Do you want to say that Russian and Ukrainian tourists give the Turkish economy 110 billion ??
              I’m not starting to explain to you the whole structure of the Turkish economy, I just gave an example.
              And another1st place for tourists is Germany.




              understand finally and forget the stereotypes that half of Turkey lives off of 3 million not the richest people from Russia !!!!!!
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 10 January 2013 00: 47
                0
                Quote: Yeraz
                .you want to say Russian and Ukrainian tourists give the Turkish economy 110 billion ??

                I want to say that these big billions have very little to do with the bulk of the Turkish population. They are "above", among the richest part of the population, not too numerous. But those who are poorer, just live at the expense of the tourism business and affairs associated with it. And the deterioration of this business will hit the pocket (and drive them out onto the streets with protests) exactly THEM. And this will be VERY difficult for the government to "miss"
                1. Yeraz
                  Yeraz 10 January 2013 01: 34
                  +3
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  I want to say that these big billions have very little to do with the bulk of the Turkish population. They are "above", among the richest part of the population, not too numerous. But those who are poorer, just live at the expense of the tourism business and affairs associated with it. And the deterioration of this business will hit the pocket (and drive them out onto the streets with protests) exactly THEM. And this will be VERY difficult for the government to "miss"

                  No, you said that half of their budget is made by Russian tourists, and in case of cancellation of trips, their economy will rise and the leadership will receive from the population.
                  Secondly, Russian tourists occupy 11 percent in their tourism business.
                  And thirdly, I understand both of us from the CIS countries, but believe me as an Azerbaijani who is very knowledgeable about the political life of Turkey, their leadership and ours are not even near. This is what we are rowing for ourselves.
                  By the way, in 2011, tourism revenue was 25 billion, therefore in 2012 it was about a billion 2 higher. Russian is 11% of the market.
                  And do not forget that the contract for nuclear power plants in the Russian Federation is 20 billion in Turkey.
                  Admit that you were mistaken in saying that half of their budget is formed by Russians. You simply were little informed and judged Turkey by stereotypes.
                  This is from the series when I asked a Russian educated girl how do you imagine Baku, the answer was mountains and many mosques))

                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 10 January 2013 02: 20
                    +1
                    Perhaps not quite accurately put it. I did not mean the budget of the country as a whole, but namely that (very large) part of the population. By the way, tourism itself is just the tip of the iceberg. Judging by the quantity and assortment of Turkish-made goods there, the amounts are quite comparable with the tourist ones. A very large proportion of those who are classified as tourists by securities are in fact wholesale traders. A German is not lucky with a dozen or one and a half leather jackets from a trip to pay vacation costs wink
                    1. Yeraz
                      Yeraz 10 January 2013 13: 59
                      +3
                      Quote: Misantrop

                      Perhaps not quite accurately put it. I didn’t mean the budget of the whole country, but of that (very large) part of the population

                      Again wrong. It turns out that we went to one extreme to the other
                      They used to say that half of the state budget is formed by Russian tourists. Now, half of the population of 75 million Turkey lives at the expense of Russian tourists. Yes, many people are employed in the tourism sector, which gives 25-27 miliards from Turkey’s 225 billion budget and in the tourism sector Russians occupy 11 percent. You will continue to argue that at the expense of the Russians live the Turks ???
                      I don’t know about the Germans what the Germans buy there, but the fact that they mostly settle in rich hotels and the Germans have more money than Russian tourists.
                  2. vyatom
                    vyatom 10 January 2013 14: 19
                    0
                    But how can one really imagine Baku?
                    1. Yeraz
                      Yeraz 11 January 2013 00: 37
                      +3
                      Eurovision is the last one you type in YouTube and you will see. And you will be very surprised if you represented Baku differently. In the Caucasus, Grozny and Baku are very different from all the cities of the Caucasus. When I saw Grozny, I was very surprised that I imagined him as this girl in Baku))
            3. illarion
              illarion 10 January 2013 17: 16
              0
              That's right. They already accept rubles even for payment.
          2. vyatom
            vyatom 9 January 2013 11: 47
            +5
            Quote: Hammer
            But Turkey is a serious force in this region, and ignoring it will be a big mistake.

            Do not make people laugh. Since the 18th century, Turkey has never been a serious force, but only a cheap puppet in the hands of Western diplomats. For which I received from Russia in full. Like whipping boys for our army. Suvorov and Kutuzov made a name for themselves first of all by smashing the Turks. We took away a good half of the Black Sea coast from them.
            And in Antalya I do not rest, because I respect myself.
            Do not forget that in the event of a conflict, vessels from the Baltic Sea and the Barents Sea may catch up in the Mediterranean Sea. And not only the Black Sea fleet will confront the Turks. Again: they were tearfully begging for the long-obsolete patriots. Hence the question of the level of the Turkish army and navy in general.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 9 January 2013 11: 52
              +15
              Quote: vyatom
              Do not make people laugh.

              What does laughter have to do with it? Turkey has always been a serious force, which has repeatedly demonstrated. Another thing is that it did not pull against Russia, but this is its misfortune. And she drove all the rest more than once with rags. And to the Middle-earth in a shitty situation, one still needs to be able to get. Not only is the route not short, it’s also not a lot of friends along it, but there is someone to spoil along the way ...
            2. Kubanets
              Kubanets 9 January 2013 12: 27
              +15
              Good day. Pulling ships from other fleets to Middle-earth is problematic in terms of supply. I myself worked on the supply tanker of the 5th Mediterranean Flotilla at 88. There were only two sea parking points on all the theater of operations. And now ... They will browse the sea like orphans. We need a full-fledged BMB
              1. nycsson
                nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 32
                +4
                Quote: Kubanets
                And now ... They will browse the sea like orphans. We need a full-fledged BMB

                Gold words! Look at the situation from a geographical point of view and everything will become clear! To be honest, I don’t understand why our ships were sent there !? If this is not some kind of PR! What can be the evacuation of our citizens if they are loaded with marines? request
              2. vyatom
                vyatom 10 January 2013 14: 21
                0
                We have ships with atomic DG and great autonomy.
                1. tlauicol
                  tlauicol 10 January 2013 15: 38
                  +1
                  there is one Peter the Great
            3. knn54
              knn54 9 January 2013 14: 21
              +11
              There is no need for capricious moods (as in 1941). Today the Turks have a stronger fleet. And + huskies + brothers. And who (in the event of a conflict) Russian ships will let the fleet pass through Gibraltar. Glabrites? After losing the largest base of the Black Sea Fleet (Poti), do you need to build bases in Abkhazia. Novorossiysk and Gelendzhik are not suitable, because of the bora. So the Black Sea Fleet needs to be strengthened and strengthened.
              Without the GREAT fleet there is no GREAT power.
              1. nycsson
                nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 34
                +4
                Quote: knn54
                Without the GREAT fleet there is no GREAT power.

                It is only a pity that our rulers, from the collapse of the USSR, did not understand this! Or they understood, but on purpose they all ruined!
                Quote: knn54
                Today the Turks have a stronger fleet

                I don’t think anyone can argue with that!
            4. lelikas
              lelikas 9 January 2013 16: 35
              +1
              Quote: vyatom
              Hence the question of the level of the Turkish army and navy in general.

              And do you, for the sake of laughter, google about the Turkish fleet before writing - these are far from galleys.
              And about the pressure - in addition to tourism, they sit on our gasoline (Lukoil is known to all Turks :)) - it is very expensive there - there is no gasoline, no fuel and lubricants - there is no war.
              No need to fight - you need to clearly divide the sandbox - here our Easter cakes, here Turkish - and everyone will be fine.
            5. PSih2097
              PSih2097 9 January 2013 17: 33
              +4
              Hence the question of the level of the Turkish army and navy in general.

              14 DPL type 209, German-built, this is not enough. Yes, the RRC "Moscow" can hit the Turkish naval base with "Volcanoes" in nuclear equipment (A-50, if something happens, can highlight targets), but what's the point of this? The puppeteers are in a completely different place.
            6. mike_z
              mike_z 9 January 2013 19: 47
              +5
              Quote: vyatom
              Do not forget that in the event of a conflict, vessels from the Baltic Sea and the Barents Sea may catch up in the Mediterranean Sea. And not only the Black Sea fleet will confront the Turks. Again: they were tearfully begging for the long-obsolete patriots. Hence the question of the level of the Turkish army and navy in general.


              It's not that simple, believe me. Ships (not ships, but ships) from the Northern Fleet in the eastern part of the Mediterranean will, at best, in 16-18 days, from the Baltic in 12 (we arrived this way, but these were the newest ships in the mid-late 80s). Actually now the mistress in the Black Sea is just Turkey, as it is not regrettable.
          3. Prorox
            Prorox 9 January 2013 15: 07
            +6
            Hammer- "I am not trying to dramatize the situation, we will somehow be able to survive all these misfortunes. But Turkey is a serious force in this region, and it would be a big mistake to ignore it."

            There were the British Empire in Crimea, and the Ottoman Empire was the most serious of today's Turkey, but the result is known. The first shrank to a small island (where they know that they live only until the flying time). The second has shrunk to the size of today's Turkey (I think they have not forgotten how to fight with Russia).
            Turkey will not violate the Montreux Treaty when, knowing that it will bring Russia closer to the long-standing idea (which no one has canceled) of owning the straits. Our Caucasus has already blazed in the 90s and what, but if Russia openly supports the interests of the Kurds, the big question is whether Turkey will survive.
            1. knn54
              knn54 9 January 2013 17: 42
              +2
              As for the small island, you are mistaken. The governments of the dominions (Canada, Australia, New Zealand ..) for a sign. There the Queen really rules.
              1. Dikremnij
                Dikremnij 10 January 2013 03: 19
                +1
                Yes, the Queen Mother doesn’t really rule on her island, all power is in the parliament, and the monarchy is just like that, a tribute to tradition.
                1. Syrdon
                  Syrdon 10 January 2013 11: 34
                  0
                  It seems so to you, in fact, the British Empire simply went into the shadows and became the brain, its hands are the United States. The entire US elite is closely connected with Britain and its real rulers, too. Korleva is the mother of the most powerful woman ruler, the fact that the Prime Minister allegedly rules Britain is also an illusion for the plebs. No decisions are made without the Queen.
                  1. Prorox
                    Prorox 11 January 2013 12: 07
                    0
                    Syrdon
                    "It seems to you so, in fact, the British Empire just went into the shadows and became a brain."
                    So it was before the elder Bush came to power, ask the pen-do-sov themselves at the expense of England and her imperialism, and at the expense of the queen, do not confuse influence and power, you know different things, and the ruler (not even funny) tell Margaret Thatcher about it .
              2. illarion
                illarion 10 January 2013 17: 34
                0
                It’s one thing to send troops somewhere far away, another is to get a retaliatory strike for it. I write long ago that if Gaddafi fired at least a rocket at Rome and Nice, then there would be a decrease in those who wished to participate in the war with Libya.
              3. Prorox
                Prorox 11 January 2013 11: 50
                0
                Canada can yap from the armpit of the United States and only Australia well, yes, they say the continent too, New Zealand is the hobbit's strength.
          4. nycsson
            nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 25
            +4
            Quote: Hammer
            I do not seek to dramatize the situation, we will somehow be able to survive all these misfortunes. But Turkey is a serious force in this region, and ignoring it will be a big mistake.

            Totally agree with you! First of all, you need to really look at the situation! Turkey is a serious opponent! Suffice it to say that its Armed Forces are the second largest, after the United States in all of NATO! And to ignore this fact is at least silly!
            1. Prorox
              Prorox 11 January 2013 12: 22
              0
              Suvorov still denied the size factor by skill, and even with the current structure and power of weapons, even moreover, the methodology of the collapse of the countries (the size of the army does not matter) has changed, even no need to fight.
          5. illarion
            illarion 10 January 2013 17: 14
            0
            And we recognize the state of Kurdistan and render military assistance to it.
      2. aksakal
        aksakal 9 January 2013 10: 06
        +4
        Quote: nycsson
        If this Montreux Convention is revised, Georgia will certainly be admitted to NATO!

        - Well, finally got one more explanation. He kept wondering why Putin was so tenderly hobbling with Erdogan, when he was simply fucked up in politics with Syria. Is a hundred billion turnover with Turkey and some kind of nuclear power plant so expensive for Russia that you can close your eyes to the actions of Turkey? And here is another factor - the Montreux Convention. Actually, it’s an important factor, you won’t get Turkey. Well, if nevertheless this Convention will be revised, then I am sorry just Turkey. This Convention - its only trump card, let it be safe - this is good advice. It will be laid out - and this one hundred billionth turnover is not particularly needed, and the ban on tourism to Turkey, and a much tougher stance on the Syrian food issue, including accusations of supporting terrorism. Let them think.
      3. vyatom
        vyatom 9 January 2013 11: 39
        +5
        If Georgia enters NATO, then NATO advisers will again drive the Georgians like cheap cannon fodder for Russian machine guns. And they will be mopped clean as in 2008. Only in this case, I think our tanks will take Tbilisi, and we will have another autonomous republic.
        1. Sergh
          Sergh 9 January 2013 13: 57
          0
          Quote: vyatom
          like cheap cannon fodder for russian machine guns

          Yes, right now in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the technicians caught up to be healthy. Back in the past, tfu, the year before last, the Iskanders and Tochka-U threw them there, and soon the Olympics, as if to boil the striped ones, were not muddied, that's bad. Attacks, this Georgia and Turkey are nonsense, one ambition for black-toed animals.
          1. nycsson
            nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 37
            +1
            Quote: Sergh
            But soon the Olympics, as if to boil the stripes, didn’t muddle it, that's bad.

            And I think so!
            Quote: Sergh
            Attacks, this Georgia and Turkey are nonsense, one ambition for black-toed animals.

            The second largest army in NATO, after the United States, is nonsense for you ??? request
            1. Prorox
              Prorox 11 January 2013 12: 30
              -1
              That you have set up NATO, NATO, after Libya, the members of this organization themselves have understood what it is capable of and why they are so sad about this "power".
        2. Prorox
          Prorox 9 January 2013 15: 15
          +1
          vyatom- "NATO advisers will once again drive Georgians like cheap cannon fodder to Russian machine guns"
          Maybe the NATO wanted it. only Georgian warriors rushed in the opposite direction with tremendous speed.
          1. vyatom
            vyatom 10 January 2013 14: 25
            0
            Sincerely sorry for ordinary Georgians
      4. vezunchik
        vezunchik 9 January 2013 16: 58
        -1
        Voluntary accession of Georgia to Russia, stripping in Turkey - and they will immediately respect us! The West and the USA - jackals - they are brave to beat unarmed!
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz 9 January 2013 20: 51
          +4
          Quote: vezunchik
          Voluntary accession of Georgia to Russia, stripping in Turkey - and they will immediately respect us! The West and the USA - jackals - they are brave to beat unarmed!

          That brought the stebe, it’s just a normal discussion when you write something, think write. Considering that you didn’t put emoticons seriously. How do you imagine the war between Russia and Turkey as a NATO member?
          1. Yeraz
            Yeraz 10 January 2013 14: 01
            +4
            again, people with small convolutions instead of the answer put a minus. How lucky you are to put cons with these functions. You can’t answer, but please stock up.
          2. vyatom
            vyatom 10 January 2013 14: 28
            +3
            Elementary. If there is a serious batch, then NATO will not intervene directly. More expensive for yourself. The conflict over the Falkland Islands showed clearly.
            1. Yeraz
              Yeraz 11 January 2013 00: 40
              +3
              Yes, the Russian Federation attacks 1 of the strongest NATO countries and NATO will be inactive ???
              Secondly, except for dropping a nuclear bomb on Turkey, the Russian Federation will not be able to enter its territory. Neither economically nor military will pull. If to suppress small Georgia, it took an 80 thousandth army for a well-trained with strong Air Force, 700 thousandth Turkey would not be stupidly watched. Only a nuclear warhead fold. And do not forget that the attacker must have 3 times the advantage.
              1. Big lexey
                Big lexey 11 January 2013 14: 28
                +1
                Quote: Yeraz
                Yes, the Russian Federation attacks 1 of the strongest NATO countries and NATO will be inactive ???

                I completely agree with you that a Russian attack on Turkey will be like suicide, or rather, the end of the world, if it is not approved by the UN Security Council (is that it, Turkey. Should it be done so that there is such approval?!) ... otherwise, NATO will be forced to respond and NATO will respond. And such a struggle for peace will begin that there will be no stone on a stone ...
                Quote: Yeraz
                And do not forget the attacking side should have 3 times the advantage.

                But here I do not agree. 3..5 times the advantage in firepower at the front section ... and then, to break through the defense in depth.
                1. Yeraz
                  Yeraz 12 January 2013 19: 41
                  +4
                  Quote: BigLexey
                  But here I do not agree. 3..5 times the advantage in firepower at the front section ... and then, to break through the defense in depth.

                  I basically meant it, but there should be an advantage at least 2 times in manpower, and with the equipment of the troops that the Russian Federation now has and taking into account the armed forces of Turkey, the Russian Federation in the current state does not invade Turkey in any way. Only if dropped nuclear bomb.
                  We all witnessed what forces the Russian Federation pulled into the war with small Georgia and what losses were. And Turkey is a completely different category.
                  But if you still take how the supply of these troops will take place, because the Russian Federation does not border with Turkey. Where will the economic and military forces come from for this. There are many aspects.
                  In short, the utopian version at this stage.
      5. lotus04
        lotus04 9 January 2013 18: 59
        +1
        Quote: nycsson
        Something needs to be decided with Georgia!


        Urgently visit Fidel and Chavez !!! We need a ride for them fresh "cigars".
      6. asavchenko59
        asavchenko59 10 January 2013 06: 15
        0
        Why not send the Chechen and Ingush "wild" divisions to Georgia?
        Unofficially, then will Georgia itself beg Moscow to withdraw them?
      7. nokki
        nokki 10 January 2013 08: 50
        0
        IMHO. Russia's actions now resemble the manner of boxing Mohammed Ali. His "branded" hit-and-run tactics forced his opponents to chase him around the ring, and then, to the exhausted, they were usually finished off with a series of strong and accurate punches by Mohammed.

        Now the main thing for us is to buy time to rearm!

        The West understands that, having sunk even one BDK, it will receive a nuclear club on the head. Do they need it? So far we are driving them into stalemate the situation!
    2. webdog
      webdog 9 January 2013 10: 04
      +23
      Sakaashvili - drug addict (no kidding)
      fucked up ...
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 10: 09
        +18
        Quote: webdog

        Sakaashvili - drug addict

        Here it invigorates laughing Looks like a good coke from Washington was brought in, I could at least put on glasses, otherwise the fawn is solid bully
        1. mda
          mda 9 January 2013 10: 38
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Looks like a good coke from Washington brought

          Or they brought fresh gerych from Afghanistan laughing
          1. Bubo
            Bubo 9 January 2013 11: 08
            +1
            It's awesome, at such and such a moment to sing it, and in "Lyubyanskiy sobering-up station" wink
        2. lelikas
          lelikas 9 January 2013 16: 39
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Looks like a good coke from Washington brought


          They saturate them with ties - licked the tip - for half a day Napoleon or Alexander, one insult - then turn back into Mishiko.
      2. Swag
        Swag 9 January 2013 14: 20
        0
        Mineral water bottles are missing in the hand ...
      3. Captain
        Captain 9 January 2013 18: 13
        0
        He is not a drug addict, he just tints his eyes)))
    3. Cartoon
      Cartoon 9 January 2013 10: 09
      +8
      Well, I somehow didn't shrink before. When the USSR destroyed the missiles in Cuba, they were ready to press the red button. Fortunately, everything ended only with a squabble. Now what? Doesn't the deployment of missiles along the entire frontier of Russian influence look like a Cuban threat? We also need to threaten that we can accidentally sit on a button and send this whole world to the bottom of the sea. Like Zhirinovsky :)) "And your whole country will be under water"
    4. Trailer
      Trailer 9 January 2013 10: 22
      +5
      China would also be involved in these exercises. And only diplomacy in the modern world will not be strong!
    5. vadimus
      vadimus 9 January 2013 10: 36
      +10
      Yes, not enough ships. Well now sit on the priest exactly? Shove our pride and glory of our fathers and grandfathers to hell? Pipes! Do not wait! The main thing is not to skimp on the army and navy and they will not fail. It is proved more than once. And the foreign shellun knows this!
    6. webdog
      webdog 9 January 2013 11: 53
      +22
      it’s better not to fight with Russia in an open war ...
      that's what the Wehrmacht generals said -
      On June 22, the command of the Wehrmacht was confident that a decisive blitzkrieg would smash the "Russian-Mongol Bolshevik horde." “We have the greatest army, led by the greatest military genius of all time.” “We are the smashing sword of the new Germany!” (Haape G. The grin of death. 1941 on the Eastern Front. M., 2009. P.86, 94, 125)

      But already on July 24, 1941, i.e. almost a month after the start of World War II, in the diary of the Chief of the General Staff of the Ground Forces of Germany, General Halder, there was an entry from the appeal of the Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces, Field Marshal von Brauchitsch to the participants of the meeting, which was then held: “The originality of the country and the uniqueness of the Russian character gives the campaign a special specifics. The first serious adversary. "
      November 11, 1939: “The Russian army has no great value. Poorly managed and even worse equipped and armed. ”
      June 29, 1941: “The Russians defend themselves bravely. Their command operates in operational terms better than in the early days "...
      Manstein respectfully wrote about the Soviet breakthroughs from the Kherson Peninsula east to the partisans. 5 thousand heroes of the spirit fought in Adzhimushkaysky quarries, withstanding shelling, explosions and gases. “In a dense mass, leading individual soldiers under their arms so that no one could be left behind, they rushed to our lines. Often in front of all were women and girls of the Komsomol, who, also with weapons in their hands, inspired the fighters ”(E. Manstein,“ Lost Victories. ”M.1999. S.294-295).

      On May 24, they sent a radiogram from the dungeon: “To all the peoples of the Soviet Union! "We, the defenders of the defense of Kerch, gasp for gas, die, but do not give up!"
      “On the Eastern Front: hostilities continue. Enhanced and desperate resistance of the enemy ... The enemy has many killed, few wounded and prisoners ... In general, very heavy fights take place. There is no question of a "walk". The red regime mobilized the people. To this is added the fabulous stubbornness of the Russians. Our soldiers can barely cope. But so far, everything is going according to plan. The situation is not critical, but serious and requires all efforts. " From the diary of Goebbels Propaganda Minister
      “These damned peasants fought like hell ...” (F. Zenger, “No fear, no hope ...”
      Colonel General von Kleist: “From the very beginning, the Russians showed themselves to be first-class warriors, and our successes in the first months of the war were simply explained by better preparation. Having gained combat experience, they became first-class soldiers. They fought with exceptional perseverance, had amazing stamina and could survive in the most intense battles "(Liddel-Garth B." They know how to defend themselves and stand to death ...
      “Russian soldiers and junior commanders are very brave in battle, even a single small unit always takes the attack. In this regard, one should not allow a human relation to prisoners. Destruction of the enemy by fire or melee weapons should continue until the enemy is safe ... Fanaticism and contempt for death make Russian opponents, the destruction of which is necessary ... "(From the order of the command of the 60th Motorized Infantry Division
      In fact, there are no real positions. They fight for every ruin, for every stone ... .. In Stalingrad, we forgot how to laugh. The worst is night battles. The Russians use every hillock for defense and do not give a single span without a fight. ”
      Western concepts of terrain impassability for Russians are of very limited importance. Here, the spirit of the German soldier, his courage, initiative, selflessness fought against the desperate resistance of the enemy, whose strength lay in the favorable terrain for him, in the endurance and incredible stamina of the Russian soldier
      1. webdog
        webdog 9 January 2013 12: 24
        +14
        and NOT a single word about the "fearless" American soldiers who "won" the war !!!!!
        Wehrmacht officers themselves admitted that the USSR won the war exclusively.
      2. click80
        click80 9 January 2013 13: 00
        +3
        Quote: webdog
        In this regard, one should not allow a human relation to prisoners. Destruction of the enemy by fire or melee weapons should continue until the enemy becomes safe ... Fanaticism and contempt for death make Russian opponents, the destruction of which is necessary ...

        A similar order was given to the dushmans in Afghanistan, after the uprising of prisoners of war in the Badaber camp.
        "Do not take the" shuravi "prisoner, but destroy it on the spot when captured."

        As for the amers, their navel will be launched to destroy our fleet. But if the Turks get a little head over head from us and Iran
        1. Bob
          Bob 9 January 2013 15: 11
          +1
          Quote: click80
          But if the Turks get a little head over head from us and Iran

          It seems to me that from another player - China! And this is a guaranteed destruction of Turkey as a state. And what do ordinary Turks think there, if puppets of the West are sitting in the power of their state ?!
    7. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 9 January 2013 23: 50
      0
      This is either a warning or an attempt to stop active military operations in the region, I suspect that the second ...
  2. Slevinst
    Slevinst 9 January 2013 09: 35
    +1
    good article, I just live on the black sea
  3. omsbon
    omsbon 9 January 2013 09: 35
    +7
    We simply must restore lost ground in the Black Sea!
    Let it be slowly but surely!
  4. borisst64
    borisst64 9 January 2013 09: 39
    +13
    Candidate of Historical Sciences Alexei Isaev commented on the situation as follows:


    "....... in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds."


    Isaev can be obtained from the scoreboard for such a forecast.
    1. Vanek
      Vanek 9 January 2013 09: 48
      +9
      Quote: borisst64
      Isaev can be obtained from the scoreboard for such a forecast.


      At certain times, this forecast will be calculated as alarmism. And punished not by putting it in the face, but by banal execution.
      1. anchonsha
        anchonsha 9 January 2013 10: 30
        0
        Well, well, in May 1941, political workers and Beria’s rodents said, everyone assured us that we would throw Hitler with their hats. The same VANEC and borisst64 are now threatening the historian Isaev, who spoke about the real situation of our fleets today.
      2. PSih2097
        PSih2097 9 January 2013 17: 39
        +7
        At certain times, this forecast will be calculated as alarmism.

        Better now, in peacetime, scream guardthan in the military - EVERYTHING, P *** c ...
        1. desava
          desava 9 January 2013 19: 18
          +6
          It is better now, in peacetime, to shout the guard than in war - EVERYTHING, P *** c ...

          Exactly!!!! Only Russians begin to read the operating instructions when they understand - "All n .... c !!! Broke it!"
          1. lelikas
            lelikas 11 January 2013 00: 43
            0
            Quote: desava
            "All n .... c !!! Broke it!"
            - yeah, all instructions in Russian should begin with the words - "So, it doesn't work .." laughing
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 10: 00
      +1
      Quote: borisst64
      Isaev can be obtained from the scoreboard for such a forecast.

      Isaev is not the navel of the earth, nobody takes seriously his forecasts. He wants to talk a lot and be an expert in all matters, let him tremble. The more he speaks, the more you see him hi
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 9 January 2013 10: 54
        +11
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The more he says, the more you see his dope

        Stupidity is stupidity, but the Black Sea Fleet now looks more like an open-air museum than a real force. "Samum" with "Borey", of course, are cool, but ... they are not enough for a serious situation. The Alrosa sound simulator is also not a very adequate replacement for the DPL brigade. Well, about the Sushki squadron (withdrawn from Mongolia) as a worthy replacement for the 4 regiments of naval missile carriers and the VTA regiment, I generally keep quiet ... The base in Sevastopol and that can now offer only beach umbrellas as a cover. Alas, the Black Sea Fleet is now nothing more than the remnants of heterogeneous forces and is clearly too weak to solve even the slightest bit serious tasks ...
        1. Armata
          Armata 9 January 2013 11: 55
          +9
          Quote: Misantrop
          but the Black Sea Fleet now looks more like an open-air museum than a real force. "Samum" with "Borey", of course, are cool, but ... they are not enough for a serious situation. The Alrosa sound simulator is also not a very adequate replacement for the DPL brigade. Well, about the Sushki squadron (withdrawn from Mongolia) as a worthy replacement for the 4 regiments of naval missile carriers and the VTA regiment, I generally keep quiet ... The base in Sevastopol and that can now offer only beach umbrellas as a cover. Alas, the Black Sea Fleet is now nothing more than the remnants of heterogeneous forces and is clearly too weak to solve even the slightest bit serious tasks ...
          And you are right to all 100. Few people can say this openly. drinks
          1. Sergh
            Sergh 9 January 2013 14: 11
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Isaev is not the navel of the earth, no one takes his forecasts seriously.

            That's it, and you all read about this condo, there is a version that this is generally a custom provocateur.
            WHO IS STANDING FOR ALEXEY ISAEV'S "PROJECT OF LIE" ABOUT THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR?

            http://freedom.bb24.ru/viewtopic.php?id=419
          2. lelikas
            lelikas 9 January 2013 16: 45
            0
            And the point is, who needs to know this, our fleet would never have torn the Yankees 1in1, yes even in the best of times, but even now it is able to sweep half of their cities off the map, which is exactly what it was designed for.
          3. berimor
            berimor 10 January 2013 19: 47
            +1
            You are absolutely right! Firstly, we must not forget that the Black Sea is a "bottle with a very narrow neck", and this fleet, in the event of a sharp exacerbation of the situation, simply will not be able to quickly deploy, since that "narrow neck" will play the role of a valve. e. let "everyone" in and not let "anyone out". Well, now about the Black Sea Fleet, look at the Sevastopol base on the map in Google, count and look at those ships! I want to cry from resentment and anger. After all, I knew this fleet completely different !!!!! And about the rapid arrival of new ships, unfortunately, one should not hope. They pissed off the power of shipbuilding and wasted time. So more carefully, you guys need to think, more carefully and more sober, sir !!!
        2. 77bor1973
          77bor1973 9 January 2013 14: 22
          +4
          At the time of Ushakov, the Turkish fleet also surpassed the Russian fleet several times. The Turks, too, not all ships can go to sea. At one time, one cruiser spoiled the blood of the entire Black Sea Fleet. The Black Sea Fleet, although small and does not seriously take it, but this is only to our advantage.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 9 January 2013 14: 33
            +2
            good photo. but there are no such ships at the Black Sea Fleet
            1. 77bor1973
              77bor1973 9 January 2013 14: 59
              0
              After all, the exercises will not only be the Black Sea Fleet ships.
            2. PLO
              PLO 9 January 2013 17: 10
              +2
              this is not a photo but a 3D model)
          2. Dikremnij
            Dikremnij 10 January 2013 03: 34
            0
            Personally, I was interested in the article by the phrase: "Within the framework of large-scale exercises, a drawing of tactical episodes will be carried out for loading personnel of the Marine Corps and Airborne Forces on landing ships from the unequipped coast of the North Caucasus."
            Accordingly, the question arose: why the hell in the Airborne Forces buy new expensive BMDs, develop parachute systems if they (Airborne Forces) are delivered to the shores of a likely enemy by sea rather than by air? Maybe it’s time for Russia to pay attention to the marines, which in recent years have been cut and reduced so mercilessly?
    3. Alexss
      Alexss 9 January 2013 10: 02
      -5
      What does not suit you? today it may well be that way
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 10: 13
        +4
        Quote: AlexSS
        What does not suit you? today it may well be that way

        So this is you Isaev? Destroy the entire fleet in a few seconds. wink
    4. valokordin
      valokordin 9 January 2013 10: 26
      +3
      Specialist in military history, candidate of historical sciences Alexei Isaev commented on the situation as follows:

      "The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of fulfilling any global tasks, in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds." Who is this Isaev, if you think so, then why to the fleet ?, some sort of enemy
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 9 January 2013 11: 01
        +8
        This is precisely the global task of the Russian Navy so far able to solve. Rocket volleys to grind half of the planet into shit-shit is still able to. True, the BDR with the Pacific Fleet with depleted zones will be able to shoot only from the pier, but they will reach from there too. 5 out of 6 BDRMs are still in service, and the "animals" can cover them. But to measure strength with the US Navy without the use of nuclear weapons ... alas, it is not possible
        1. Armata
          Armata 9 January 2013 11: 57
          +4
          Quote: Misantrop
          Rocket volleys to grind half of the planet into shit in the light is still in a state. True, the BDR with the Pacific Fleet with depleted zones will be able to shoot only from the pier, but they will reach from there too. 5 out of 6 BDRM are still in service, the "animals" can cover them. But to measure forces with the US Navy without the use of nuclear weapons ... alas, it is not possible
          The fleet is not unique. But here is our coastal defense still on top. And can do a lot of dirty things to them.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 9 January 2013 13: 06
            +4
            so they, bastards, will launch 150 tomahawks from one boat without entering the Black Sea. Che them coastal defense?
            1. cucun
              cucun 9 January 2013 13: 49
              +3
              It is necessary that the Tomahawks fly, and if they fly, that they fall ... And the first and second are far from a fact.
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 9 January 2013 14: 03
                +1
                they can at least finish it and we sit and wonder: will they hit or not. good defense!
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 9 January 2013 15: 58
            +6
            Quote: Mechanic
            But here is our coastal defense

            Didn’t you have to ride along the Kola Peninsula? It’s very problematic to drive something mobile there. And until recently, some ruins were along the coast (now not in the know). Peel from the depths, and who will give them the target designation?

            At the Black Sea Fleet from coastal complexes - two nichrome and a donut hole. There was one battery in the North, and it was decommissioned. You can’t look at the Ukrainian allies without tears, the coast is almost completely exposed.

            I don’t know about Pacific Fleet, but it wasn’t too much fun there before, it is unlikely that since then something has gotten better. . Along the northern border - one continuous hole. Previously, at least there were airfields. That's the whole coastal layout, no matter how anyone puffed out ... Well, at least they took off their pink glasses (most likely IMHO Serdyukov stole foolishly and sold). Maybe that will change for the better
            1. mike_z
              mike_z 9 January 2013 19: 55
              +3
              Quote: Misantrop
              And until recently, some ruins were along the coast (now not in the know).

              Now is not better. It only gets worse for now ...
            2. vyatom
              vyatom 10 January 2013 14: 41
              0
              I rode a lot on the Kola Peninsula. No need to tryndet. There is absolutely no problem whatsoever. In Soviet times, much has been done and preserved to this day.
              1. mike_z
                mike_z 10 January 2013 16: 20
                +2
                Quote: vyatom
                No need to tryndet. There is absolutely no problem whatsoever. In Soviet times, much has been done and preserved to this day.

                What do you mean by "tryndet"? My point is that it only gets worse? So I do not "ride" on the land on which I live, I work on it. I highly recommend trying to bring something to Porchnikha or to Rybachy Peninsula or Liinakhamari. This is not impossible, of course! But the fact that we have heaven on earth and our roads have been improving and improving since the times of the Soviet Union - it's for someone else, okay? On our coast, all the villages from Gremikha to Port Vladimir are simply destroyed, Zaozersk (Zap. Litsa) is on the verge of "surrender", Vidyaevo is also ... almost. However, the route M-18, Murmansk - S.-Pb. really well repaired ... I do not know how long it will stand without repair. We hope for two years ... So - import without problems!
        2. Sokol peruna
          Sokol peruna 9 January 2013 12: 02
          +3
          Misantrop
          True, BDR with Pacific Fleet with worked out zones can only shoot from the pier

          "George the Victorious" 2 months ago returned from the BS during which it launched an ICBM underwater from the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.
          "Ryazan" and "Podolsk" seemed to be running out of overhaul terms. Ryazan is now in Kamen under repair.
          1. mike_z
            mike_z 10 January 2013 17: 55
            0
            Quote: Sokol Peruna
            "George the Victorious" 2 months ago returned from the BS during which it launched an ICBM

            We have the BDK pr. 775 in the Federation Council with this name, he also recently returned from Middle-earth. What another ship with this name is? Which one?
    5. Manager
      Manager 9 January 2013 10: 51
      +4
      Quote: borisst64
      Candidate of Historical Sciences Alexei Isaev commented on the situation as follows:


      "....... in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds."


      Isaev can be obtained from the scoreboard for such a forecast.



      Well, for seconds, he certainly drank Vodka with champagne. But the very idea that our fleet today is weak compared with the American is a fact.
      1. alex popov
        alex popov 10 January 2013 12: 53
        0
        Quote: Manager
        Well, for seconds, he certainly drank Vodka with champagne. But the very idea that our fleet today is weak compared with the American is a fact.

        Well, weaker. Isaev imagines himself Columbus ??? Should we give up right away? the logic of Mr. Isaev is simple: "... ahhh .... everything is useless, kirdyk, it's time to give up ..."
        The teachings are underway and Isaev is not concerned.
        He would go on an erotic journey as an invited person.
    6. Bubo
      Bubo 9 January 2013 11: 14
      +3
      Your High Honor, well, you immediately feel the face of a person ...
      Ph.D. then ours, the Russian one, he also misleads, which will cheer the amers, and will lead them into complete ignorance of the real forces of the enemy.
      It would be nice if it weren’t just about the fleet, but about the whole Russian army ...
      Can you imagine what will be the surprise of the amers at the "X" hour, and there are even more shirts in the kalosbornik wink
    7. desava
      desava 9 January 2013 13: 03
      +3
      Quote: borisst64
      "....... in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds." Isaev can be obtained from the scoreboard for such a forecast.

      Isaev is talking about it. And you about the scoreboard ... We have already discussed this issue. Of course, not seconds (too exaggerated), but the main thing is that he is doomed, like the Varyag under Chemulpo.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 9 January 2013 13: 18
        +1
        These fleet maneuvers today resemble the tour of an artist from the 70s who travels to clubs and wants to show that he is still awesome! And in the end they will burn the solarium - and for repairs! NATO members are used to it, but we all entertain ourselves with illusions. There are no bases in the Mediterranean, the Turks will close the straits in case of war - and what to do? Amerikosy even do not suit us for a shot, why?
        1. alex popov
          alex popov 10 January 2013 12: 49
          0
          So, give up, business then? Personally, you look at the iPhone being poked. Just do not agitate in your faith, for God's sake.
          1. desava
            desava 10 January 2013 13: 03
            +1
            You are more careful ... If you are not able to draw conclusions from the correct read, then it is better to be silent. What do you think is better: Bitter truth or sweet flattery? Apparently the second. Rapture, tenderness, contentment from the realization of imaginary safety, the opportunity to be proud of our past while spitting in the present. Take off your pink glasses and start thinking objectively! If you hurt you - do not blame me, but I will not tolerate such an attitude from a stranger to me.
            1. alex popov
              alex popov 11 January 2013 10: 56
              0
              My name is Alexander. The offer to surrender was not for you, look at the order.
              Regarding "sweet flattery and so on." Honestly, already tiresome. Have we decided tomorrow to urgently clash with the entire US Navy? Teachings are underway. Exactly exercises, and exactly where the combat employment of the fleet is possible in a certain future. There is no other context. Without teachings, there will be no understanding of who and what he is, what can be counted on, and what urgently needs to be changed. And Isaev's article is disgusting, from the category "I do not directly incline you to anything, but it's time to put your hands up." I apologize for the harshness, but people of this kind cause absolute rejection in me. Problems do not need to be hushed up or emphasized. In this respect, he is no better than those whom you called "lover of sweet lies." You need to know the problem, understand the source and work to eliminate it. On this: "and here the teachings are coming." Sincerely.
  5. sergo0000
    sergo0000 9 January 2013 09: 48
    +2
    More often and more scale !!! smile In order to stick your nose into our original waters, we thought ten times, “Is it worth it to wake famously while it is quiet!”
    In general, such activity has been very pleasing to our MO recently. And future exercises, this is a good cookie in the snout of the State Department and NATO in general!
    1. nycsson
      nycsson 9 January 2013 10: 13
      +5
      Quote: sergo0000
      In general, such activity has been very pleasing to our MO recently. And future exercises, this is a good cookie in the snout of the State Department and NATO in general!

      I agree! But it’s a pity that for this I had to gather the forces of four fleets! The Black Sea Fleet itself must cope with such a task! Arms urgently, time does not endure! And also to create an operational squadron in the Mediterranean again!
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 9 January 2013 11: 04
        +2
        Quote: nycsson
        create an operational squadron in the Mediterranean again!

        And during the Soviet era, almost half of the 5th squadron consisted of SF ships. Or who came from the Baltic
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 41
          0
          Quote: Misantrop
          And during the Soviet era, almost half of the 5th squadron consisted of SF ships. Or who came from the Baltic

          If only she could cope with the tasks, and there even from the Pacific!
      2. mike_z
        mike_z 9 January 2013 15: 55
        +1
        Quote: nycsson
        create an operational squadron in the Mediterranean again!

        I would add: recreate all squadrons in the Northern Fleet and in the Pacific Fleet. And surface ships and submarines! And also recreate the 5th OpEsk in Middle-earth.
        The squadron has always been the main operational and tactical unit of the forces of the Navy. And squadron teams cannot be replaced.
  6. JonnyT
    JonnyT 9 January 2013 09: 51
    +1
    Not to be in the future of small powers, there will be 2 poles ........ red and blue, USA and Russia!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 10: 32
      +11
      Quote: JonnyT
      there will be 2 poles ........ red and blue, USA and Russia!

      Red and Blue, more precisely wink
      1. Bubo
        Bubo 9 January 2013 11: 18
        -1
        blue, not bad, but we also have white in the demon, maybe white is better ...
        Yes, we are more familiar, red versus white smile
      2. mda
        mda 9 January 2013 11: 19
        -1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        2 poles

        Are you sure that the United States will be able to start the Cold War No. 2?
        1. atalef
          atalef 9 January 2013 11: 23
          +8
          Quote: mda-a
          Are you sure that the United States will be able to start the Cold War No. 2?

          She already goes
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 11: 26
          +7
          Quote: mda-a
          Are you sure that the United States will be able to start the Cold War No. 2?

          Yes, it did not end, the Pentagon budget of 630 billion speaks for itself hi
          1. mda
            mda 9 January 2013 13: 22
            +2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Yes, it did not end

            The break was in the 90s when the EBN drank Russia and when the United States did whatever it wanted.
          2. nycsson
            nycsson 9 January 2013 16: 44
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Yes, it did not end, the Pentagon budget of 630 billion speaks for itself

            That's right!
  7. basal
    basal 9 January 2013 10: 01
    +4
    Specialist in military history, candidate of historical sciences Alexei Isaev commented on the situation as follows:

    "The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of performing any global tasks; in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in seconds."


    Since 1987, lives in Moscow. He graduated from the Department of Cybernetics of the Moscow Engineering Physics Institute (Department of System Analysis). He worked in the Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense of Russia.
    In addition to literary work, he works as an engineer in the field of telecommunications.

    Yes, truly "expard". Straight sailor in life.
    1. vyatom
      vyatom 9 January 2013 11: 54
      +2
      Here is an idiot. Even Suvorov said that it is necessary to fight not by numbers, but by reduction. Golden words.
  8. boris.radevitch
    boris.radevitch 9 January 2013 10: 13
    0
    It is necessary to demonstrate on the black sea, and then stagnated! good
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 10: 18
      +9
      Quote: boris.radevitch
      It is necessary to demonstrate on the black sea, but it stagnated

      Judging by your koment, do you propose to hang out a portrait of Shoigu in the Black Sea?
      1. mda
        mda 9 January 2013 11: 20
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Do you propose hanging a portrait of Shoigu in the Black Sea?

        And what’s good, the enemy must know the Minister of Defense,
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 9 January 2013 11: 34
          +1
          Quote: mda-a
          And what’s good, the enemy must know the Minister of Defense,

          Warships more reliable pictures will be hi
          1. click80
            click80 9 January 2013 12: 11
            +6
            or maybe amers are not yet aware that our defense minister has changed laughing After all, the official note of protest in connection with the dismissal of the stool from the State Department lol
        2. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz 10 January 2013 00: 59
          +1
          And who is the enemy? Can explain to those who do not know
      2. sniper
        sniper 9 January 2013 19: 51
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Judging by your koment, do you propose to hang out a portrait of Shoigu in the Black Sea?

        I would develop this idea further .... It is necessary to hang Taburetkina on the rail, well, ah. a portrait .... he will find the same place, by honor. Let the enemies see and draw conclusions ....
  9. Retx
    Retx 9 January 2013 10: 14
    +1
    Consequently, the Russians are preparing to evacuate their citizens from Syria (there are, according to various estimates, from 9000 to 30000 people there). Perhaps, the author of the article suggests, the situation in Syria, where the civil war continues, is about to deteriorate sharply.

    How are they not tired of singing this song? smile When the situation in the country improves, a fleet and aviation of shit-democrats appear. This is a no brainer, but not for foreign journalists. Strange ...
  10. anchonsha
    anchonsha 9 January 2013 10: 15
    +2
    There is a competition in the press for revealing Putin's intentions in the ongoing exercises of the Russian fleets, and the caravan is moving on ... Russia needs to become more and more "disenchanted" and the fleets need to grow not in order to fight, but to show the same USA, NATO that we are ready with your aggression "beat you again"
  11. Slevinst
    Slevinst 9 January 2013 10: 18
    +3
    The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of fulfilling any global tasks, in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds. ”

    he apparently forgot how many kilometers along the coast of the Black Sea our territory goes, and I think that missiles will fly off the coast from American ships. and our fleet will only have to finish them off, I’m not an expert, so thinking out loud to a simple layman
    1. lewerlin53rus
      lewerlin53rus 9 January 2013 10: 38
      +2

      The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of fulfilling any global tasks, in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds. ”

      But this Isaev (obviously not Stirlitz) did not count how many seconds the US will survive after such an event?
      1. Logs
        Logs 9 January 2013 13: 17
        +1
        Yes, many people thought that our fleet was not capable of anything, no matter how much they regretted their words lol
    2. - = Rusich = -
      - = Rusich = - 9 January 2013 11: 33
      +3
      I understand that the comment was on the fact that our fleet, in its modern state, cannot compete with the American in the ocean, or at a great distance from its native coast.
  12. Bykov.
    Bykov. 9 January 2013 10: 30
    0
    However, the journalist seems to have a “strange” choice of the region of exercises. Black and Mediterranean? Therefore, the Russians are preparing to evacuate their citizens from Syria

    And why actually - evacuation from Syria?
    The reasons for the teachings may be more serious.
    And then, the choice of the place and time for the exercises does not look so "strange".
    1. webdog
      webdog 9 January 2013 10: 44
      +15
      apparently our fleet off the coast of Syria is not to evacuate, but to ensure that it does not happen ...
      Do you have any fleet? but the country is nuclear, and even if there is only one ship there, this is enough for the adversary to begin to greatly reduce his chances ...
      all parties understand each other's strengths well. these are risky maneuvers, but they are needed for Assad and Russia.
      squeeze the Americans - then the victory is unconditional.
      I think so.
      1. Bykov.
        Bykov. 9 January 2013 11: 08
        +2
        Quote: webdog
        but they are needed for Assad and Russia.
        squeeze the Americans - then the victory is unconditional.
        I think so.

        So, it seems, they have already begun to slowly crawl away from Syria.
    2. Retx
      Retx 9 January 2013 10: 57
      +5
      Yes, from whom to evacuate and save? from the opposition? hehe This bike was invented in our Ministry of Foreign Affairs, because it’s more interesting to carry weapons to the BDK under the guise of training / evacuation and does not raise questions among English-speaking hamsters (i.e. ordinary citizens).
      1. Sergh
        Sergh 9 January 2013 14: 19
        +2
        Quote: RETX
        and does not cause questions in English-speaking hamsters

        Yes, yes, the Anglo-Saxons will not see more Alaed dry cargo ships with equipment for Syria (Mi-25 helicopters), let them tie up their navel and watch warships with military cargo for Syria from afar, and wipe the bubbles from their nose and wipe drool.
        1. sergo0000
          sergo0000 9 January 2013 16: 45
          0
          Sergh,
          There is no silver lining! wink
  13. sergskak
    sergskak 9 January 2013 11: 06
    +1
    For a long time already, some kind of shake-up has been needed, for example, a provocation against our fleet in the Black Sea, and then the map will fall, drown everyone !!! Once I showed what I can and sleep peacefully, but there are not bad abilities.
  14. djon3volta
    djon3volta 9 January 2013 11: 33
    +5
    I know that you don’t like it, but it will be exactly as it is written. And I also know that people are dull-witted, they like to say - "their kids and mistresses, money and real estate are in the same place, so they will not take such measures" .. listen , well, let's say I'm an official thief and I have kids, money and real estate in the usa or in the west, what if the situation escalates IN ADVANCE and will not withdraw my capital and kids and leave them there so that they burn in a nuclear fire? Why carry on such nonsense? Who do you want to convince? Well, of course, I’ll get it out in advance, well, even a fool will do that! Turn it down, those who were involved in the death of Magnitsky do not keep millions of accounts abroad, they have nothing there !!!

    Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Nikolai Makarov said that Russia could use nuclear weapons in case of threat to its integrity. According to the army general, such an opportunity is clearly spelled out in the national military doctrine.
    oh, it’s just not right for me, okay? I know that Makarov is no longer in that position, I know. but no one has canceled the doctrine.
    http://www.utro.ru/articles/2012/02/16/1029241.shtml
  15. zanoza
    zanoza 9 January 2013 12: 18
    +3
    There is Long-Range Aviation - should fly tAnd where they should, and not at the airfield at the aircraft, practice air interaction on mock-ups. There is a fleet - forward to the expanses of the oceanc, and not only engage in the development of actions for fire or emergency alarms at the berths. This applies to all types and types of troops. IN field conditions the army is growing stronger, and not in the barracks.
    The US is not shy about displaying its flag in all corners of the planet and troops (reservists) are running in combat.
    It is necessary to return, forgotten and lost in the 90s.
  16. Bob
    Bob 9 January 2013 12: 43
    +5
    Everything is arranged in a puzzle:
    - difficult negotiations on the fate of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol
    - military, financial support for UWB Georgia
    - NATO naval bases in Bulgaria, Romania
    - construction of a NATO missile defense system near our borders
    All of the above did not arise overnight, but is now brought up for open discussion by the general public. The question on the topic of the day is how was it allowed?
    According to the article, today NATO plans to "open the lock" (the Montreux Treaty) to the Black Sea for the 6th Fleet, using a multi-pass combination with Turkey-Syria. At the same time, Russia's task is to interfere with the plans of the West in the Mediterranean and Black Seas without entering into open confrontation with the West due to the inequality of the military potential of the parties. And here is the BIG QUESTION - how far can the sides go in probing the enemy's line of defense and in identifying its "sensitive" zones, in other words - what losses are the sides ready for in implementing their military plans. We can immediately say that NATO has chosen the tactics of squeezing out and a conflict-free, cold confrontation, which reduces losses to a minimum. Russia, in turn, during the exercises in the Barents Sea in 2000. showed in the case of the Kursk that these losses are quite possible, and the crisis situation can be resolved "peacefully", that is, through "negotiations". Unfortunately, NATO is ready for such relations with Russia today, and not for no reason, but in view of the enormous inequality of military potentials in the naval segment. Therefore, NATO blatantly (without looking around and without looking back, but in an impudent way) open one after the other the line of defense of the state, trying to accustom (not yet unsuccessfully) us to a new reality, in which offensive weapons are deployed near our borders, threatening to join the global the game is a decisive battle, the outcome of which largely depends on tactical victories, including control over the Bosphorus.
    And here one can only assume what are the chances of the parties in achieving their goals with "minimal" losses.
  17. Garrin
    Garrin 9 January 2013 13: 08
    +2
    Let them conduct exercises (yes more often), on which there is. If there were bones, the meat would grow.
  18. GOLUBENKO
    GOLUBENKO 9 January 2013 13: 24
    +11
    A good article put a plus sign.
    The demonstration of the Russian Navy is an extremely useful thing.
    The Americans themselves understand this and understand that what is now gathered for the exercises is not enough for a real confrontation, but quite enough for a political theater. But I think Putin and Shoigu will launch ships and boats into the water by 2020 still decently, this is a strategic issue.
    Even such a group that has gathered now off the coast of Syria will not allow the United States and NATO to use force against Syria, and rightly so.
    If Russia, with its BDK, carries ammunition, military technical equipment, medicines and food for the Syrian armed forces to Syria, then this is also correct.
    Separately, you can be glad for the sailors who are engaged in their favorite business, walk on the sea.
  19. подводник
    подводник 9 January 2013 13: 42
    +3
    Question: .... What will Russia demonstrate in January ???
    Answer: ... Your UNFORGETTABLE WILL !!!

    And what kind of pepper is Isaev, Ph.D., who claims that in the event of a conflict, the amers will erase all four Russian fleets to dust?
    Very smart?
    Sandpaper in the hands and drive payola!
    1. подводник
      подводник 9 January 2013 13: 57
      +1
      Isaev, Alexey Valerevich
      Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      Alexey Valeryevich Isaev
      Date of Birth:
      August 15 1974 (38 years old)
      Place of Birth:
      Tashkent, UzSSR
      A country:
      the USSR
      Russia
      Scientific field:
      Great Patriotic War
      Academic degree:
      Candidate of Historical Sciences
      Aleksei Valerievich Isaev (b. August 15, 1974, Tashkent) - Russian historian, employee of the Institute of Military History of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (2007-2010) [1], candidate of historical sciences (2012).
      Content
      1 Biography
      2 Bibliography
      3 Criticism
      4 Notes
      5 References
      Biography
      Since 1987, lives in Moscow. He graduated from the Department of Cybernetics of the Moscow Engineering Physics Institute (Department of System Analysis). He worked in the Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense of Russia.
      In 2007-2010. - Freelance [source not specified 115 days] employee of the Institute of Military History of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. [1]
      In addition to literary work, he works as an engineer in the field of telecommunications


      Is it worth it to believe EXPERT?
      1. Sergh
        Sergh 9 January 2013 14: 32
        0
        Quote: submariner
        Should I believe this EXPERT?

        Yes, I gave a reference up there, where this condidate is tightly sealed with his books. True, a rather big article.

        WHO IS STANDING FOR ALEXEY ISAEV'S "PROJECT OF LIE" ABOUT THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR?
        http://freedom.bb24.ru/viewtopic.php?id=419
      2. ioann1
        ioann1 10 January 2013 17: 20
        +1
        Such Isaevs, wretched historians, even a dime a dozen at the present time, in Moscow on Bolotnaya also gathered experts on the collapse of Russia. For dollars, all experts, but for the soul 0
    2. Region65
      Region65 9 January 2013 15: 05
      0
      he is like the one of the Gentlemen of Fortune :) they say I have a friend, an academician, he has three classes of education ... that's how the "candidate of sciences" Isaev ....
  20. Oleg Rosskiyy
    Oleg Rosskiyy 9 January 2013 15: 01
    +1
    There is no need to despair so much. It can be seen from history that the Russian army has always lagged behind its opponents in armament and equipment, but the result of the wars unleashed against us, for the most part, was one - the flight or surrender of our enemies, so we will believe in our Army and The Navy, it really helped them and will help us in the future. If the people who serve in the Russian Armed Forces did not betray her in the 90s, then be sure that we have nothing to fear.
  21. Region65
    Region65 9 January 2013 15: 03
    +6
    "The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of performing any global tasks; in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four main Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds." Apparently the candidate of sciences Isaev is a little dumb :) his thinking resembles the one from "Gentlemen of Fortune" .. they say I am a friend, an academician, he has three classes of education :) somehow childishly Mr. Candidate of Sciences thinks :) the impression is that a sea battle looks like this - the entire US fleet and the entire Russian fleet gathered at one point somewhere in the ocean and let's kill each other :) it's like when they talk about the possible outcomes of the war based on the population of a particular country :) it looks like all the same a candidate of sciences like that academician - only three classes of education.
  22. Dedream
    Dedream 9 January 2013 15: 30
    +2
    After the conflict with Georgia, the American fleet entered the Black Sea ... and that ... ours said that their entire fleet would take 20 minutes to work for "Moscow"
    1. Region65
      Region65 9 January 2013 15: 54
      +3
      the most interesting thing is that they entered late, when ours was no longer on the Georgian borders :) and Turkey, as it were, didn’t behave like NATO then - the US fleet didn’t let the passage through the strait for 10 days .. :) what would it be :))) ) but Turkey does not hate with Russia to swear ....
  23. Mobidic
    Mobidic 9 January 2013 15: 39
    +4
    It is foolish to compare our fleet and the US fleet, the goals are different. All countries have their own strengths, and besides the fleets, there is much more. If Russia’s main task is to protect its territories and control its neighbors, then why should it all that the United States has on water ?, swim for the hokings to pacify the rebellious?. As I think, in the comment above it was written that it’s valid if they start non-nuclear clashes in the near abroad between Russia and the United States, (NATO) then we have so many border lands with airplanes and missiles and that this will all fly into the enemy, then this is comparable to a huge AUG.
  24. Garrin
    Garrin 9 January 2013 15: 53
    +3
    Recently, I posted a video here, how two of our patrol boats "kicked off" amerovsky cruiser and frigate in the Black Sea. It is also suggestive.
    "The larger the closet, the louder the fall."
    1. Quiet
      Quiet 9 January 2013 20: 51
      +1
      Thanks for the video !!!! The plot was pleasantly pleased !!!!
  25. ayyildiz
    ayyildiz 9 January 2013 18: 04
    +2
    Peace and stability have dominated the Black Sea region for a long time, and they cannot be allowed to be destroyed.

    Both Russia and Turkey have to deal with unique domestic problems. Turkey is fighting the essentially terrorist Workers' Party of Kurdistan, paying thousands of young lives and billions of dollars for this war. Russia experienced a similar situation in the Caucasus.

    The author of this report is himself from the Black Sea region, Sinop is his hometown. There is no shortage of energy, water or food in this region. It is known for its unique nature, the sea and rivers have long fed its inhabitants. Russia and Turkey are rare countries in the sense that they are potentially self-sufficient (authoritarian).

    Third countries, in their global aspirations, aimed at Russia or Turkey, actually harm all the Black Sea states. Turkey is like an open door to the world for many countries of the Caucasus, the Black Sea region and the Caspian region. The region is in urgent need to maintain a confidential atmosphere and stability.
  26. family tree
    family tree 9 January 2013 18: 11
    +4
    No, the author writes, the United States is not going to send an aircraft carrier to the sea in order to help Georgia in the event of a new war.
    Sadness, it would be nice to troph this vessel, broke off, however request
  27. Dawd
    Dawd 9 January 2013 18: 34
    +1
    Georgia will never become a member of NATO, just like Ukraine, Russia will not allow this. these are our lands, we will not give them to anyone.
  28. ayyildiz
    ayyildiz 9 January 2013 19: 36
    +4
    Turkish expert: Russia and Turkey should minimize US influence in the Black Sea
  29. Quiet
    Quiet 9 January 2013 20: 11
    +2
    "The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of performing any global tasks; in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in seconds."




    What ??? Anyone willing to take a chance ?????
  30. Quiet
    Quiet 9 January 2013 20: 54
    +1
    Quote: perepilka
    No, the author writes, the United States is not going to send an aircraft carrier to the sea in order to help Georgia in the event of a new war. Sadness, it would be nice to troph this vessel, broke off, however



    Let them send. Samali pirates seem to them baby talk ....
  31. slava.iwasenko
    slava.iwasenko 9 January 2013 21: 09
    +1
    However, for any of us fleets including and the Black Sea Fleet needs to be strengthened
  32. Setrac
    Setrac 9 January 2013 21: 42
    +2
    The crisis of the platforms has not been overcome, therefore, to speak of the superiority of the American Navy on the basis of quantitative indicators, as it is philistine, unprofessional.
    1. 77bor1973
      77bor1973 9 January 2013 23: 36
      0
      Yes, one of our "zanyuhanny" "tarantula" is worth one of their frigate, and you can't compare the blow of a "mosquito" with the blow of an "exoset" or "harpoon".
  33. Dawd
    Dawd 9 January 2013 22: 13
    0
    Nimitz we are not tired of a couple of anti-ship missiles "Yakhont" or "Granit" and no nimits
  34. exstera
    exstera 9 January 2013 23: 51
    0
    It is a pity that this is how things turn out for us, but from the side of the enemy all the actions are correct and understandable. Seriously, so far the power behind them and manufacturability. It pleases and gives hope that they began to increase their capacity.
    1. alex popov
      alex popov 10 January 2013 12: 43
      0
      Well, the power. Well, technological.. And what? Paws to the top? Choke. hi
  35. scorpion
    scorpion 10 January 2013 00: 23
    +1
    Quote: “The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of fulfilling any global tasks, in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds.”

    Our battalion in Pristina was confronted by a large group of NATO.
    But NATO members did not dare to occupy the airfield.
    So off the coast of Syria, the gut is thin to shoot tomahawks over the heads of our sailors.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGdIscaqG5Q
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 January 2013 10: 07
      +3
      Quote: scorpion
      Our battalion in Pristina was confronted by a large group of NATO.
      But NATO members did not dare to occupy the airfield.

      Because there was no war. But the order to take the airfield - was. But (as I heard), the British general stated that he was not going to launch a nuclear missile war because of some airfield.
      It does not detract from the valor of our battalion, but it should still be understood that he acted under the cover of the Strategic Missile Forces. At least that's what NATO thought.
    2. alex popov
      alex popov 10 January 2013 12: 41
      0
      By the fact that the fleet should not be taken separately from everything else, including YES and Strategic Missile Forces. It’s unlikely that anyone in the United States is ready to exchange rockets because of Syria, but exercises need to be carried out. Moreover, the moment is quite appropriate, the situation is close to combat.
  36. plebs
    plebs 10 January 2013 02: 26
    0
    Probably, the Black Sea Fleet will have to drown its ships, as in the Crimean War, and frighten different Turks and different Germans with pea jackets into the army.
  37. WW3
    WW3 10 January 2013 05: 53
    +2
    Quote: webdog
    Sakaashvili - drug addict (no kidding)
    stoned.

    There is a whole video sequence with music ... laughing
    Saakashvili addict :)
  38. krisostomus
    krisostomus 10 January 2013 06: 44
    +4
    Again, a pseudo-patriotic hat-covering is flourishing, which is very far from reality. The fact that the American Navy is much more powerful, more complex, has a more trained personnel with constant practice at sea, only the blind can not see. Such campaigns of "combined" squadrons without normal support and cover can impress only young schoolgirls or an uneducated "electorate". The destruction of the Kursk nuclear submarine practically in its own waters clearly demonstrated this - there was not even a means to rescue the surviving crew in relative shallow waters up to 100 meters, and there was complete confusion with the organization of work. For a presence in the World Ocean, first of all, a new modern type of ships is needed, the development of a fleet to support ships at sea, or, as they say now, logistics and the presence of either stationary or floating bases. But the most important thing is that American commanders are more independent and, within the limits of their powers, make decisions without looking around or looking into the mouths of their higher authorities.
    1. alex popov
      alex popov 10 January 2013 12: 34
      +1
      Yes, we are aware, in the course, that the Amers are the mind, the color and pride of the planet Earth ("-" this is "a minus, not a dash"). Keep your loyal complexes with you, they are no longer paid for in the same volume. Take the information easier: major exercises, not to intimidate the "tough guys and their help", but to establish interaction, practice combat training tasks, test equipment and have a pleasant pastime.
      1. krisostomus
        krisostomus 10 January 2013 14: 46
        0
        Loyalty, dear, does not consist in shouting empty slogans and warming one’s own soul, but in assessing the real power and capabilities of the enemy and their own. The establishment of interaction and the development of combat training missions can be carried out at their own training grounds. Combat campaigns are undertaken to solve specific problems that may arise in a particular area. There are big doubts that in this composition this group of ships will be able to solve any combat tasks, as well as that in the event of a real threat, ships can be assembled there in general.
        1. berimor
          berimor 10 January 2013 20: 23
          +2
          That's right! I am an officer in the delivery, who fought a lot in Egypt and Syria. But we must face the truth in gas. In modern warfare, "hurray" does not roll. High morale is, of course, great, but it's not just the whole point. Remember the eastern proverb: "How many do not repeat halva, halva, but the mouth will not become sweeter." So the situation "on the seas" must be taken much more seriously, otherwise these hurray comments are already sickening.
          1. alex popov
            alex popov 11 January 2013 10: 39
            0
            Who is arguing? need to. More serious. for this and teachings. without any pathos.
        2. alex popov
          alex popov 11 January 2013 10: 25
          0
          Dear, the teachings are designed to understand who and what they are. The concept of "own ranges" is very vague, outside the territorial waters for all "their ranges", and the development of combat training missions in the Arctic Circle and in tropical waters has a certain difference.
          The fact that the American fleet is more technically equipped, more trained and more numerous does not mean that we urgently need to "put our hands up the hill and surrender", exercises should be and should be where the leadership of the fleet considers it necessary, within the framework of compliance with international law, regardless from the opinion of "our partners". ... The exercises are under way and not only at the Navy. to consider the Russian Navy separately from the DA and the Strategic Missile Forces is an unforgivable stupidity. There will be no missile exchange because of Syria. Maneuvers. Just maneuvers with a flag demonstration. And your doubts ... they are your doubts. have every right. We have a democracy, after all.
    2. Region65
      Region65 11 January 2013 04: 48
      -1
      Why did the NATO and US grouping superior in all respects in Iraq in the 90s so "valiantly" fought when a couple of their planes (just a couple) were shot down by a Russian officer from an old S-200? Yes, because they do not like to get kicked in the face and are terribly afraid of death and pain :) and they are even more afraid of losing expensive equipment. So a lot of ships with broiler hamburgers at the helm is not an indicator :) there is a military history that shows that the United States is not able to fight a stronger enemy than a tribe of Papuans and half-savages somewhere in Zimbabwe)))))) they even They cannot fight the savages in Afghanistan, they dug themselves up to their ears in the sands of Afgan and do not stick their faces out behind the fences of the bases :) warriors ... ugh damn :)
      PS although if your worldview is brought up by Hollywood films and you sincerely believe that the US army consists exclusively of Schwarzenigers, who alone with a machine gun and knife can handle three hundred or four hundred armed fighters in 20 minutes, and still believe that such a fighter can do all this without once reloading the weapon - then I simply applaud you.
      1. alex popov
        alex popov 11 January 2013 10: 38
        +1
        Quote: Region65
        and also believe that such a fighter can do all this without once reloading the weapon - then I’m simply applauding you.

        I saw these guys live in 1997 in Asbestos. But I don't remember who came, I was 18. For 25-30 years, pitching, equipment ... awful ... we never dreamed of that ... everything from unloading to ankle boots .... performed well, but our "races" bypassed them at all stages. Ours are 19-20 year old boys on call. So it will be possible to talk about who is cooler only when they clash directly.
        Regarding the war with the Papuans.
        When the Americans clashed not just with an equal but more or less strong enemy in terms of spirit, despite the gigantic military-technical superiority and the immeasurable amount of arrogance at the beginning of the war, the end was sad for them ...
        if they start singing songs to me now, about the fact that "the Americans have drawn conclusions," then I will answer: yes, and now 1. They are not at war with a strong enemy. 2. Pre-buy everything and everyone that they can reach in the upper echelons of the enemy. Heroic victories of precisely "American weapons" in an equal fight have not been observed since WW2. And Russia is not indifferent Libyans, not greedy Iraqis, not skinny Vietnamese (skinny, in terms of physique, not spirit). In a head-to-head collision ... the fortitude wins, not the number of iPhones per capita.
        1. Region65
          Region65 12 January 2013 09: 04
          0
          here it is))) I’m talking about the same thing ..... yes, and they don’t fight with a strong opponent ... I look, they just don’t fight :) in the US Army, probably already 90 percent of foreigners who tear their the green card, homosexuals, the mentally retarded, and so on ... there are practically no US citizens there ... the fact that in the USA, among other threats to the state and nation, OBESITY was recognized at the legislative level)))) probably for this and they don’t take US citizens into the US Army))))) but on account of the fact that the equipment and them and all that .. they crawl like penguins in them, they say that they were ours and they nicknamed the pin themselves))) 0 by the way according to their laws, if you were injured and at that moment you didn’t have anything outfitted with equipment - you lose insurance ... so they crawl in their junk and in the heat and cold)
  39. Slavs69
    Slavs69 10 January 2013 09: 03
    +2
    One of these ships, a Borey-class ship (Yuri Dolgoruky), has already joined the fleet this week.
    On this occasion I would like to hear the opinions of experts in the Navy, in connection with which I will cite one quote I read on the "news @ mail" portal: independent military expert Pavel Felgenhauer: “A complex system, moreover, it was made on the knee. The body is not native. They also took the hull of a completely different boat, not even a strategic nuclear one. From savings. They added it, which means they have changed it. Unique, as we often have, a thing. Therefore, problems with her will be inevitable, all the way. All this, as they say, was made on a living thread, an experimental, one might say, some kind of prototype. I am afraid that this boat will have some problems all its life, how long it will live, because this is a non-serial boat. You see, if you take a Zhiguli body, make a Formula 1 car out of it. Problems will constantly arise. "
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 January 2013 09: 49
      +5
      Quote: Slavs69
      I wanted to hear the views of the Navy experts,

      Completely illiterate quote
      One of these ships, the ship class "Borey"

      First, the ship is what the sick have under the bed. And also - a transport craft, but this term cannot have a relation to a warship. Northwind is a ship. To call the same thing a ship and a ship is tough.
      The second - "class" "Borey :))) This is generally one laugh. Classes of ships - aircraft carrier, battleship, destroyer, etc. Class" Yuri Dolgoruky "- strategic missile submarine cruiser (SSBN), within this class exist TYPES of ships SSBNs built according to one project are considered one type, "Yuri Dolgoruky" belongs to the "Borey" type
      Quote: Slavs69
      independent military expert Pavel Felgengauer

      This is the one that, a week before the war, 08.08.08 managed to write that the Georgian army is able to reach Moscow in a week? :))))))) From the fact that a person thinks he is an expert, he does not become an expert
      Quote: Slavs69
      The case is not native. They also took the body of a completely different boat, not even a strategic nuclear

      Just do not understand the person what he writes. During the construction of Dolgoruky, not the hull was used, but metal, and separate hull structures that were supposed to be used to build other boats (these boats were going to be built, but it did not work out in the dashing 90). So you wanted to make repairs in the kitchen, bought materials, wallpaper and tiles ... And then you changed your mind about repairing the kitchen and used the material to repair the toilet - does this mean that you made a toilet from the kitchen? :))) Or that your toilet turned into the kitchen? :)))) I don’t think so :)))
      All this is bad, of course. Mainly because the metal also has its own lifespan, and Dolgoruky was built for many years, and even using such previously created materials. But there can be no question of any "non-serial"
      1. Region65
        Region65 12 January 2013 09: 08
        0
        do not offend the person! what if this Slav 69 is the same expert Felengauer ???? suddenly upset upon learning that he is not an expert :)))
    2. Region65
      Region65 12 January 2013 09: 06
      0
      Pavel Felengauer is not a military expert, he is just another mishandled Cossack from the family of the Jews. And besides, who awarded him the title of expert? and then there are articles from the same phony experts who write such nonsense that judging by the content of their materials they are not experts but excrement.
  40. alex popov
    alex popov 10 January 2013 12: 30
    0
    Isaev commented on the situation as follows:

    "The Russian fleet in its current state is not capable of fulfilling any global tasks, in the event of a confrontation with the US fleet alone, all four major Russian fleets will be swept away in a matter of seconds." [/ Quote]
    And here Isaev ... (((
    Teachings should be like without them? And without looking back at ... all kinds of riffraff, no matter where it is from, from across the ocean or whether it is Georgian-Baltic. "our partners" and their mongrels let them think for themselves, against whom or against whom. Yes, and they will be thrown out of the windows according to the old habit of "Russians are coming", or laughing like stoned horses, their problems. Our business is not to "die or win" in the event of war, but "to win and not die." For this and teachings.
  41. Slavs69
    Slavs69 10 January 2013 12: 40
    +1
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    Completely illiterate quote
    One of these ships, the ship class "Borey"
    Yes, even I spat on it.
    And the rest (about the toilet and the kitchen) is understandable and accessible. Thank you
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 10 January 2013 17: 13
      +1
      Yes, not for anything, always happy :)))
  42. dmitreach
    dmitreach 10 January 2013 13: 02
    +1
    ON THE LONG-HANDED FLAG RAISED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    HOORAY! COMRADE !!! soldier
    http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/27377/
    1. alex popov
      alex popov 10 January 2013 13: 41
      0
      Hooray! seven feet under the keel! )))
  43. alex popov
    alex popov 10 January 2013 13: 39
    +2
    Even though it is a button accordion, I will remind you: in 2011 it was decided to modernize these beauties. The first of the Orlans, which will be returned to service in 2015, the Admiral Nakhimov will receive a state-of-the-art electronic equipment; the missile Granit will be replaced by the UKSK - the latest universal shipborne firing systems that can be loaded with a variety of missiles, from anti-submarine torpedo missiles to cruise missiles long range. The ammunition capacity of the cruiser will increase from 20 to 80 missiles due to the compactness of the complexes.
    In the same launch containers it will be possible to install Onyx or Caliber missiles, which will become the main weapon against aircraft carriers. In addition, the cruisers' air defense will be strengthened: the Eagles will receive missiles from the latest S-400 air defense system and new melee air defense systems.
    after the new systems have been tested on the Admiral Nakhimov, a further decision will be made about the fate of the rest of the Orlans.
    At the end of 2012, the documentation for modernization was in agreement with the Moscow Region, but due to known events and personnel changes, it has not yet been signed.
    1. mike_z
      mike_z 10 January 2013 15: 35
      +2
      Quote: alex popov
      The first of the "Eagles" to return to service in 2015 "Admiral Nakhimov"

      I want to believe that she will return. "Peter" got up for routine repairs at its own pier, but I think it will be back in operation by summer. "Kirov" ("Ushakov") ... it is hardly possible to reanimate, in my opinion, it is cheaper to build a new one. And what about Frunze? I do not know. So it turns out that “the rest of the Orlans” ... are practically nonexistent, the hope is for “Nakhimov.” Illusive, but there is.
      They would still think about the restoration of the "Sarich" (EM pr. 956). After all, not everything is still lost, it is still possible to return at least three or four ships. This is where the building will be many times more expensive.
      1. alex popov
        alex popov 11 January 2013 10: 42
        0
        If there are three Orlans in service, that is, a flagship for the Northern Fleet, Baltic Fleet and Pacific Fleet. Not bad anymore, is it? )
  44. asf32wesdg
    asf32wesdg 10 January 2013 18: 37
    0
    Have you heard the news? The impudence of our authorities crosses every line. SBU made this database
    g2u.ca/nfg41hb
    where you can find information about any resident of Ukraine.
    really was very surprised
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos are different
    character) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...

    It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://g2u.ca/s0ttp8i database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...

    It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://sho.rtlink.de/FS62Am database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...
  45. SenyaYa
    SenyaYa 10 January 2013 19: 41
    0
    Well, let’s take a look at the floating kunskamera ... as if the Americans didn’t tune the Tsushima to us))) at least they covered the motley brotherhood from the air with 160, it’s more reliable
  46. rocketman
    rocketman 10 January 2013 20: 18
    0
    Quote: Vanek
    In the south-east of Georgia, about 30 military hospitals were built according to typical American projects, for which 5 billion dollars were allocated.

    that's interesting, 1 hospital - 600 million. bucks? Will there be dofiga? Something is not clean here!
    Quote: vyatom
    Hence the question of the level of the Turkish army and navy in general.

    Pretty decent level. Recently I was there on air traffic control courses. Everything is at a decent level, and people are quite literate and trained.
    Quote: PSih2097
    Yes RRC "Moscow" can hit the Turkish naval base with "Volcanoes" in nuclear equipment (A-50, in which case it can highlight targets),

    Where do you get them? Nuclear charges? In Sevas there are none. Until you get to Novorossiysk, then you can not get there - 14 Turkish submarines mean something.
    This is all I say to that, that the greatest danger is the hat-inspiring mood.
  47. Spstas1
    Spstas1 10 January 2013 21: 41
    0
    If yes, if only you can - you can’t ... The Navy let us down a little, but pumped up our muscles. Now you can do the exercises.
    Remember how indignantly the bokhels about the return of Russian strategists to combat duty, they say how they can ... this is a threat to the whole world ... But strategic bombers now regularly hang in the sky and this is already taken for granted. Although annoying immensely.
    So it is with the fleet. Well, the idea of ​​returning the Russian flag to the ocean infuriates some people, well, for that, democracy :)) But the Russian fleet goes to the ocean ...
    1. alex popov
      alex popov 11 January 2013 10: 43
      0
      I'm sorry, I pressed the wrong one. gold words. Everything should take its course. Accustomed to flying DAP? get used to the fleet. )
  48. Marconi41
    Marconi41 12 January 2013 03: 03
    0
    Teaching is needed in any case, no matter who says it. This is not necessarily a muscle game, it can be just a combat training. The ships were a little shamanized, new systems came into service and it's time to try it all out! Well, if it annoys someone, then it’s also a benefit! Turkey, by the way, can’t block anything for us (according to the agreement), it’s silly to shut off the gas pipeline, this means not giving gas to Europe. So there is nothing to share with Turkey. Well, the United States - the flag in their hands!
  49. baku1999
    baku1999 12 January 2013 22: 00
    0
    WHY SHOULD PUSH AND PUSH FOR CAT TAIL ?????????? WHY WE CANNOT RESTORE THEIR RADAR ON THE SAME CUBE, AND PLACE YOUR OWN BASES ON THE FIGHT AGAINST INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM ????????? RESTORE BASE IN CAMRAN ?????????? MAYBE THOSE WHO STANDS AT THE RUDDER THIS DOESN'T NEED IT (BECAUSE THEY ARE GATHERING TO EMIGRATE ????????????????) THIS IS ALSO THE SERDYUKOVTS RIPPED AND SOLD ??????? ??????????? bully
  50. fokino1980
    fokino1980 13 January 2013 13: 14
    +1
    The exercises are not just needed, they are essential for combat coordination, gaining experience, training personnel, etc.