“There was no external influence”: Putin was informed of the preliminary conclusions of the investigation about the causes of the crash of Prigozhin’s plane

There has not yet been an official announcement about the causes of the crash of the plane of the founder of the Wagner PMC, but Vladimir Putin made one statement on this topic. According to him, no external influence on the plane was detected.

Fragments of hand grenades were found in the bodies of those killed in a plane crash over the Tver region, such information is contained in the report of the head of the Investigative Committee of Russia, Alexander Bastrykin. The examinations carried out by the RF Investigative Committee showed that there was no external influence on the aircraft; this is already a proven fact.

Surely the question is hanging in the air: what happened to the company’s management and so on. (...) the head of the Investigative Committee reported to me just the other day that fragments of hand grenades were found in the bodies of those killed in the plane crash. There was no external impact on the aircraft

- Putin said, adding that examinations of the bodies of the victims for alcohol and drugs were not carried out.

The president also noted that it is not correct to call the Wagner group a PMC; this name was invented by journalists. There are no private military companies in Russia, since there is no corresponding legislation. According to him, the participation of the group’s fighters in the special operation was caused by necessity, so when the Ministry of Defense received a proposal to involve Wagner in the SVO, he agreed. First of all, because people went to fight voluntarily. To date, several thousand fighters of the group have signed contracts with the military department.

Let us recall that the Embraer Legacy business jet, owned by Evgeny Prigozhin, crashed near the village of Kuzhenkino in the Tver region while flying from Moscow to St. Petersburg on August 23, 2023. There were 10 people on board, including the crew. In this disaster, Yevgeny Prigozhin himself and Dmitry Utkin, after whom the group was named, died.

Comments

[Lt. Air Force stock]

If there were no toxicological tests, why hint to the whole country that they blew up a grenade while using cocaine? And why weren’t they told about 5 kilograms of cocaine 3 months ago?

[Andrey VOV]

He didn't say that the grenade was blown up while he was high on cocaine. There was an impact inside, and coke was found in the office, that’s what he said, as Bastrykin reported to him.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Andrey VOV

He didn't say that the grenade was blown up while he was high on cocaine. There was an impact inside, and coke was found in the office, that’s what he said, as Bastrykin reported to him.

He hinted, mentioned cocaine for the first time, and said that no tests were carried out.

[Al manah]

We trust Bastrykin, this one won’t lie, just like Konashenkov.

[Clear]

Has anyone heard what Putin said about Prigozhin or Utkin?
Нет!
Only "in the bodies of the dead..."
In my opinion, this is the purest analogue of the federal Witness Protection Program.

[Sergei N 58912062]

Quote: Clear

Has anyone heard what Putin said about Prigozhin or Utkin?
Нет!
Only "in the bodies of the dead..."
In my opinion, this is the purest analogue of the federal Witness Protection Program.

[Santa Fe]

Has anyone heard what Putin said about Prigozhin or Utkin?

Apparently the speechwriters were given the task not to mention these names again, everyone should forget them. The names of the people who personally insulted the guarantor, making him appear confused and frightened to the whole country and the whole world

[Sarboz]

Quote: Santa Fe

The names of the people who personally insulted the guarantor, making him appear confused and frightened to the whole country and the whole world

Don’t tell me, Putin never, even in much more threatening situations in the XNUMXs, was “confused and scared.”

[Deon59]

And why be afraid, demonstrations and single pickets were banned, the fines would not seem that small, throwing a glass at the riot police for five years is guaranteed. There are no political opponents and there never will be; those who disagree are no longer anyone. You won’t be able to make the Constitution your own and become eternal, but it will remain unchanged for twenty years, and there are still five years ahead.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Santa Fe

Apparently the speechwriters were given the task not to mention these names again, everyone should forget them. The names of the people who personally insulted the guarantor, making him appear confused and frightened to the whole country and the whole world

I think these are recommendations from his PR managers. So as not to promote opponents. He also did not mention Navalnenko by last name.

[isv000]

Quote: Santa Fe

The names of the people who personally insulted the guarantor, making him appear confused and frightened to the whole country and the whole world

Tell that to the crowd in Dresden, which dispersed after his short but decisive speech...

[Vic Vic]

The comrade meant that if coke was found, even in the office, then it could have been on the plane.
Although, this is all strange.
If the grenades exploded, it was most likely not due to stupidity, but because of betrayal, even at the cost of the traitor’s life, the martyr turned out to be someone

[midivan]

Quote from vicvic

The comrade meant that if coke was found, even in the office, then it could have been on the plane.
Although, this is all strange.
If the grenades exploded, it was most likely not due to stupidity, but because of betrayal, even at the cost of the traitor’s life, the martyr turned out to be someone

But it’s more strange to me - what were the grenades doing on board? They made a flight in Ethiopia, why the hell would they transport grenades from Moscow to St. Petersburg? Were they going to fight back in the air?

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: midivan

But it’s more strange to me - what were the grenades doing on board?

[Stas157]

Quote: midivan

But it’s more strange to me - what were the grenades doing on board?

And how were these grenades smuggled into a civilian airport?

[isv000]

Quote: midivan

But it’s more strange to me - what were the grenades doing on board? They made a flight in Ethiopia, why the hell would they transport grenades from Moscow to St. Petersburg? Were they going to fight back in the air?

Normal men in their position might have more than just grenades on board. You never know where there might be a forced landing...

[Taimen]

The girls dance interestingly. Either they throw themselves on a knife 32 times, then they jump from the window shooting 3 rounds at the temple, then they try to explode grenades on the plane 5 times like that. that at first there were pops and panims and strange contrails. And it turns out that it was all from grenades. What kind of grenades with traces were made. They burst on the inside, but on the outside they give traces. It’s not engineers, but magicians.

[Boris Manzhela]

Yes... that's it. The air conditioner exploded.

[Hypertension]

Quote from vicvic

If the grenades exploded, it was most likely not due to stupidity, but because of betrayal, even at the cost of the traitor’s life, the martyr turned out to be someone

[alystan]

and coke was found in the office

When was the search carried out for XNUMX hours? There was no talk of coke/cocaine back then. All this is suspicious, now I stutter about alcohol and drugs, as if in passing...

Boxes with a large amount of cash were found in the office of the founder of the Wagner PMC Evgeniy Prigozhin in St. Petersburg. A source from TV channel “24” reported this on June 78.

[linux28]

Quote: alystan

When was the search carried out for XNUMX hours?

You know, it used to be that they found 10 kg. anything. And turning them into five took time :-)

[pettabyte]

Isn’t this the same cocaine as washing powder (the video is on the “cart”)?

[bayard]

Quote: Andrey VOV

He didn't say that the grenade was blown up while he was high on cocaine. There was an impact inside

How interesting it is for grenades to explode... It exploded in the cabin, and the wing fell off...
And evil tongues said that an explosion occurred in the landing gear, which is why the wing flew off.
But the version is of course luxurious - Wagner’s top commanders got high on cocaine and began throwing grenades in the cabin...
But let it be as it is said, for the truth is covered in darkness. The main thing is that Wagner commanders and instructors are already training reserves and are present in active units. And this is the most rational use of such a valuable human resource.

[Revolver]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

And why weren’t they told about 5 kilograms of cocaine 3 months ago?

What does cocaine have to do with it? It can add courage and cheer up, but suicide is usually caused by depression. During the American Civil War, both the North and the South invigorated soldiers before battle with cocaine, it was in the order of things, and something about cases where they blew themselves up with grenades out of joy was unheard of.
But bringing grenades on board, even without the intention of using them, is not the best idea, because the grenades explode.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Nagan

But bringing grenades on board, even without the intention of using them, is not the best idea, because the grenades explode.

Airborne infantry fighting vehicles and paratroopers with full ammunition are lifted into the air and nothing... It turns out it’s impossible - it explodes...

[Oleg Apushkin]

They won’t tell us the truth, but the truth is still sold in newspaper stalls.

[Clear]

Quote: Oleg Apushkin

They won’t tell us the truth, but the truth is still sold in newspaper stalls.

"To us" again. Talk to yourself. For example, I may not need the whole truth with such characters. I'll sleep more peacefully.

[Aag]

Quote: Clear

Quote: Oleg Apushkin

They won’t tell us the truth, but the truth is still sold in newspaper stalls.

"To us" again. Talk to yourself. For example, I may not need the whole truth with such characters. I'll sleep more peacefully.

It’s a rare case that I give you a plus twice in a minute))).
... By the way, sorry, - I repeat, - sometimes the site ignores my comment ratings: "... You have already rated..." "!!!

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: AAG

I repeat, sometimes the site ignores my comment ratings: "... You have already rated..." "!!!

Often.
You have to use the indicator line to monitor the site’s readiness to respond.

[AUL]

Quote: AAG

... By the way, sorry, - I repeat, - sometimes the site ignores my comment ratings: "... You have already rated..." "!!!

It looks like your mouse is rattling and clicking twice. I had this.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote from AUL

It looks like your mouse is rattling and clicking twice. I had this.

If the mouse were to double-click, the score would still go up/down. But this is not the case. I have similar nonsense. And before that

Quote: AAG

You have already rated... "!!!

The site freezes for a few seconds longer than when it responds normally.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: Clear

"To us" again. Talk to yourself. For example, I may not need the whole truth with such characters. I'll sleep more peacefully.

There are already enough ugly truths about Prigozhin.
Just one order to kill Russian pilots and seize the headquarters building in Rostov, actually hiding behind civilians - completely!

[isv000]

Quote: ROSS_51

There are already enough ugly truths about Prigozhin.
Just one order to kill Russian pilots and seize the headquarters building in Rostov, actually hiding behind civilians - completely!

Are you talking about those same civilians who brought tea and sandwiches to the “Wagnerites”?!

[ROSS_51]

Are you talking about those same civilians who brought tea and sandwiches to the “Wagnerites”?!

No, not about these. I don’t know who brought the boutiques to them, but in the evening, when Wagner was wrapping up and the crowd gave them an ovation, the organizers of this very ovation were very clearly visible.
I'm talking about women and children living within a radius of a couple of kilometers from the headquarters. Prigozhin was definitely not afraid of an air missile strike at that moment.
And yes .. Whatever past merits, they are not an indulgence for subsequent crimes, in particular military rebellion.

[Santa Fe]

They won't tell us the truth

Public opinion has already formed on this matter

And you have to be completely stupid not to see the connection - a failed rebellion, turned by Prigozhin himself into a clownery, and subsequent revenge. The mocking version with hand grenades only strengthens public opinion about what happened to Wagner’s top brass

The official point of view will be considered official until new rulers come

[76SSSR]

As one of my friends said, why do you need the truth, you still don’t know what to do with it...

[pettabyte]

Reminds me of his outrageous “she drowned.”
And yes, what about the flight recorders? In theory, they should also record the sound in the cockpit...

[your1970]

Quote: pettabyte

Reminds me of his outrageous “she drowned.”
And yes, what about the flight recorders? In theory, they should also record the sound in the cockpit...

- the sound in the laryngophones is no more. Outside the cockpit, no one has ever written anything

[Neo-9947]

This is what my colleague writes about the sound in the cabin.
And do business jets use laryngers? In my opinion, only both pilots have microphones. It’s as if there wasn’t a third purely cabin guy there. This means they write external sounds. This means the sound of the explosion must be recorded. Moreover, the location of the explosion is determined by the time difference in the recording of the explosion from 2 microphones.

[pettabyte]

I’m not sure how this is implemented in such (small private) planes (recording in the cockpit or only those microphones on the pilot).
But when one entertainer got sad in 2015 and decided to kill himself as a pilot (he eventually crashed into a rock) of a large airliner, a recording appeared on the network.
A knock was heard (the co-pilot was trying to get into the cockpit) and the voice of the machine said that the nose should be returned to its normal position. Like the pilot's screams too.

If you can hear it in a big one, I could be wrong, but in a “business jet” it would be more audible, since the size is not the same, you can’t block the walls, and the sound insulation is more likely from the external space, the engines, and the cabin is so that the pilots don’t eavesdrop and the passengers don’t prevented from flying.

It is clear that the explosion would have been heard. Or that he wasn't there. Or something else.

[FeHa3eIIaM]

What angered you about the phrase “she drowned”? Should I have contacted the boat with you or what?

[Vic Vic]

And what is so outrageous about “drowned”? This was said in the first or early days of the disaster; there was no other information besides “drowned.” Would you prefer, for example, Gorbachev’s verbose nonsense?

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

FeHa3eIIaM, Vic Vic , review the answer entries, they are easily accessible on YT.

[Vic Vic]

I remember him. And even in those years, the reaction to this phrase was incomprehensible to me. To the question of what’s wrong with the boat, there is a clear answer, neither subtract nor add. At that moment, all words except the statement of fact were superfluous. What did you personally not like?

[Vic Vic]

In addition to the minuses of the letter, does anyone know? What's wrong with the answer "she drowned"?

[Stas157]

Quote from vicvic

What's wrong with the answer "she drowned"?

Intonation. The fact that she drowned was already a well-known fact. They asked about something else. Everyone wanted to know more.

Everyone wanted to know the details, but how did it happen that such a tragedy happened? Maybe it could have been avoided or was it inevitable? What happened?? An absurd tragedy, crime, sabotage or attack by adversaries?
And this question primarily hung among those who lost their loved ones and friends there. And just for all the people who were worried. The answer to this painful question was simply discouraging and surprising. We expected to hear anything but this! The person who answered apparently wanted to troll (to avoid answering, to make a joke), and not to answer a serious question.

[Vic Vic]

So at that time there was no confirmed information, except that the boat sank. It is unknown whether the crew members were alive or dead. Is it too early to express condolences? Saying that we will do everything for salvation, realizing in advance that there is little we can do? I believe that at that time any other words beyond “she drowned” would have been subjected to even greater criticism, if not immediately, then after a while when some information appeared.

[Stas157]

Quote from vicvic

So at that time there was no confirmed information, except that the boat sank.

Well, I would have said then: I don’t know. People would understand this.

[Vic Vic]

For “I don’t know,” you would have punished Putin even more than for “drowned.” Here, there are practically no “correct” answers and the necessary intonations. Not for one thing, but for another.

[Sarboz]

Quote from vicvic

And even in those years, the reaction to this phrase was incomprehensible to me. To the question of what’s wrong with the boat, there is a clear answer, neither subtract nor add. At that moment, all words except the statement of fact were superfluous.

Exactly!

[isv000]

Quote: pettabyte

Reminds me of his outrageous “she drowned.”
And yes, what about the flight recorders? In theory, they should also record the sound in the cockpit...

And I immediately said that they would hide everything about the boxes and declare them mentally ill and incapable of testifying!

[Vladimir M]

It turns out that before the plane had time to take off, someone started playing with grenades on the plane?... There were people on the plane with combat experience. Does he even believe this nonsense himself?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

It doesn't matter. It is important to give some kind of explanation that the authorities have nothing to do with it, and the level of absurdity does not matter.

[Vladimir M]

Damn, but it’s not like “carrying a blizzard” to the same extent, there must be a sense of proportion. Couldn't they have come up with anything smarter?

[Clear]

Quote: Vladimir M

Couldn't they have come up with anything smarter?

Interesting. Well, for example?

[Vladimir M]

One could say that there was an explosive device on the plane, but how it got there could be investigated before the “second coming.” And so it turns out, he pointed the finger at himself or at his subordinates.

[Clear]

Quote: Vladimir M

You could say there was an explosive device on the plane,

Dear mother! Volodya, you're scaring me Are fragments of hand grenades not elements of an explosive device!?

[Sid2014]

Why talk and everything is clear to everyone? To whom and why was the “WAGNER group” inconvenient and even dangerous? Byzantium yoklmn!!!

[victor50]

Quote: Vladimir M

You could say there was an explosive device on the plane

Whether it's VU or grenades, airport employees become suspects. Candidates for this status are easy to identify. I can't hear anything.

[Sergei N 58912062]

Quote: Vladimir M

Damn, but it’s not like “carrying a blizzard” to the same extent, there must be a sense of proportion. Couldn't they have come up with anything smarter?

[linux28]

Quote: Vladimir M

Couldn't they have come up with anything smarter?

So there’s no need anymore. Society is finally divided into those who will believe everything, those who will believe nothing, and those who don’t care about all this.

[Sarboz]

Quote from: linux28

Society is finally divided into those who will believe everything, those who will believe nothing, and those who don’t care about all this.

What category do you consider yourself in? Judging by your statements, you believe only in everything negative about Russia, but at the same time you are sure that your point of view is the most OBJECTIVE.

[victor50]

Quote: Sarboz

Quote from: linux28

Society is finally divided into those who will believe everything, those who will believe nothing, and those who don’t care about all this.

What category do you consider yourself in? Judging by your statements, you believe only in everything negative about Russia, but at the same time you are sure that your point of view is the most OBJECTIVE.

There is also no doubt about the category you belong to! Very assertively, to put it mildly, you defend your point of view.

[Sarboz]

Quote: victor50

Very assertively, to put it mildly, you defend your point of view.

Yes, as it is. I have had this habit since I was 19 years old after Afghanistan.

[linux28]

I wonder what specific statements you made this conclusion based on?
Otherwise, I generally prefer not to take anything on faith. Either I know or I don’t know. And this really contributes to objectivity, whether for me or for anyone else.

[glk63]

And if we ignore conspiracy theories and simply accept what the investigation reported. Maybe that’s how it all happened (as I understand, Prigozhin was by no means an “angel”)? Otherwise, yes, Putin personally planted a grenade there. Well, that's nonsense...

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: FeHa3eIIaM

My cat knocked it past the litter tray. Who should I blame, expert?

A cat. AND?

[flicker]

[quote]. It doesn't matter. It is important to give some kind of explanation that the authorities have nothing to do with it, and the level of absurdity does not matter /quote]
What does the absurdity have to do with this?
What if this is a fact (grenade fragments in bodies)?
---
Once again, if this is a fact, then what should the authorities say? Keep silent about it? What if someone out there considers this absurd, so what?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: flicker

What does the absurdity have to do with this?
What if this is a fact (grenade fragments in bodies)?

The absurdity is that

Surely the question is hanging in the air: what happened to the company’s management and so on. (...) the head of the Investigative Committee reported to me just the other day that fragments of hand grenades were found in the bodies of those killed in the plane crash. There was no external impact on the aircraft

So, even if we assume that grenade fragments were in the bodies, this does not in any way indicate the absence of external influence. Simply put, the grenade could have detonated upon impact with the ground.
This is if we assume its presence. Which I highly doubt

[flicker]

. Even if we assume that grenade fragments were in the bodies, this does not in any way indicate the absence of external influence.

There are two facts that Bastrykin reported:
there was no external influence
and second, that grenade fragments were found in the bodies.
Which is what Putin said.
What's so absurd?
---
Further, could a grenade explosion on board an airplane cause a plane crash?
It very well could.
If fragments of grenades were found in the bodies, then why can’t we assume that the cause of the plane crash was the explosion of a hand grenade?
Who carried the grenade and how is the second question.

[isv000]

Quote: flicker

Further, could a grenade explosion on board an airplane cause a plane crash?
It very well could.

A grenade destroyed the interior and tore off the wing?
External incoming damage was drawn on with a felt-tip pen?!
Contrail and subsequent bang and vertical fall of the fuselage - video editing?
The video captures the entire process surprisingly accurately and on time - is the operator still breathing?

[flicker]

[quote]. A grenade destroyed the interior and tore off the wing? /quote]
The grenade depressurizes the interior, after which pressure equalization begins.
In the cabin it is higher, which means that air is escaping from the cabin (with a sharp jump, the cabin can be destroyed), the amount of oxygen decreases sharply, a person can lose consciousness, including pilots.
What happens to the plane in such cases can be easily guessed.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: flicker

What's so absurd?

I understand you, you read the two indicated points as unrelated. Fine.
Tell me, how do you think grenade fragments could have gotten into the bodies? There are only 2 options - an explosion due to negligence, and sabotage, that is, a planted bomb.
Explosion due to negligence? Did Utkin blow himself up, or was Prigozhin playing with grenades? Sorry, this is pure absurdity. Especially taking into account the footage of the plane crash: there was clearly more to it than just a lemon. And mining an airplane with lemons is even more absurd; it is not the most convenient ammunition for blowing up an airplane.

[flicker]

. Did Utkin blow himself up, or was Prigozhin playing with grenades?

Exactly! Utkin blew himself up and Prigozhin, and the rest were just a trailer.

[meandr51]

Quote: Vladimir M

It turns out that before the plane had time to take off, someone started playing with grenades on the plane?... There were people on the plane with combat experience. Does he even believe this nonsense himself?

Have you ever heard about accidents with explosives at the front, in a warehouse, or during transportation? By the way, Prigozhin himself is a civilian...

[victor50]

Quote: meandr51

By the way, Prigozhin himself is a civilian...

This is especially evident in his photographs and videos from the war zone. The partisans were also civilians, but this does not mean that they did not know how to handle weapons. And all PMCs are also civilian. However...

[flicker]

. There were people on the plane with combat experience. Does he even believe this nonsense himself?

And what does that change?
---
What if it was Utkin (like a real officer, like a warrior) who decided to correct his mistake - mutiny.
I decided to correct this mistake at the cost of my own life and at the same time at the cost of Prigozhin’s life.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: flicker

What if it was Utkin (like a real officer, like a warrior) who decided to correct his mistake - mutiny.
I decided to correct this mistake at the cost of my own life and at the same time at the cost of Prigozhin’s life.

The first fresh thought.

[flicker]

First fresh thought

---
Oddly enough, but immediately after the plane crash this very thought “visited” me)
---
He had great respect for Utkin, a true warrior and patriot of Russia.
Therefore, it was strange that he led the campaign against Moscow. In fact, he, a patriot of Russia, committed an act (led a rebellion) to the detriment of Russia.
It was his colossal mistake.
After such mistakes, the officers (real officers) shot.
But he could not simply shoot himself, since this act would remove the blame only from him personally, but the entire Wagner PMC suffered.
They always said that the decision was made at a council of commanders.
The overwhelming majority of commanders did not support the rebellion.
The mutiny split the UNITY of the commanders.
In essence, Utkin split the PMCs, deprived commanders (real, comrades in arms) and private personnel of funding and contracts in Africa.
And most importantly, he ruined not only his own reputation, but also the reputation of Wagner, for which they paid with the lives of soldiers.
---
Utkin, through a plane crash (in which he himself died and took the life of the instigator of the rebellion Prigozhin), provided his brainchild to the Wagner unit (his comrades in arms) with a rebranding.
---
As we see Wagner again in combat formation.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: flicker

Utkin, through a plane crash (in which he himself died and took the life of the instigator of the rebellion Prigozhin), provided his brainchild to the Wagner unit (his comrades in arms) with a rebranding.

More nonsense...

[Stas157]

Quote: flicker

What if it was Utkin (like a real officer, like a warrior) who decided to correct his mistake - mutiny.
I decided to correct this mistake at the cost of my own life and at the same time at the cost of Prigozhin’s life.

And at the cost of the lives of the crew and other passengers. Couldn’t Utkin have done this without a plane?

[flicker]

[quote]. And at the cost of the lives of the crew and other passengers. Couldn’t Utkin have done this without a plane? /quote]
It all depends on what goal he was pursuing.
And for this you need to understand, “what happened?”
What happened was that the rebellion could have ended in the collapse of Russia, the country for whose interests Wagner’s fighters fought and died.
Those. he committed treason against his country (although it seemed to him that he was saving it with this rebellion).
But neither the people nor the army supported him.
From a defender of the fatherland, PMC Wagner (not just Utkin, but PMC Wagner) turned into a traitor.
Utkin understood this, which is why he stopped his campaign against Moscow.
But Wagner’s reputation (which was formed over the years and lives of fighters) was destroyed overnight.
What Utkin got in the end: a split within the PMC (most of the commanders did not support the rebellion, but Utkin and Prigozhin did not take the commanders into account and started a rebellion).
After this, PMCs could not exist as a single structure.
Utkin was convinced of this by the number of fighters who followed him to Belarus (the vast minority) without any real prospects: funding, contracts in Africa.
In short, PMC Wagner was destroyed and the fault was Utkin’s, who fell for the “songs of Moisha” (Prigozhin).

He (Utkin) could, of course, simply shoot himself, which would have admitted his personal guilt, but he would not have prevented a split in Wagner.
And it was precisely the split that needed to be prevented.
Utkin understood this very well and decided to return Wagner’s reputation to his comrades, excluding himself and Prigozhin from it.

And “plane crash” was quite suitable for this.

Utkin, as a real officer and Warrior, could well have made such a decision (for the sake of his comrades).
---

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: flicker

And it was precisely the split that needed to be prevented.
Utkin understood this very well and decided to return Wagner’s reputation to his comrades, excluding himself and Prigozhin from it.

And “plane crash” was quite suitable for this.

To do this, it would be enough to leave a suicide note/message for the media to kill Prigozhin, since he had access to the body, and shoot himself.
What you are talking about... is a conspiracy theory at the level of AIDS-INFO

[flicker]

. To do this, it would be enough to leave a suicide note/message for the media to kill Prigozhin, since he had access to the body, and shoot himself.

Once again, for Wagner’s commanders and for Utkin himself, the main thing after the mutiny was TO OVERCOME THE SCHIPT.
That was the main thing, not who would kill whom.
---
Now on a slightly different side.
1. In PMC Wagner, the decision was made at the COUNCIL of commanders.
And this was VERY IMPORTANT.
2. A minority of the Wagnerites took part in the rebellion (some say a third, others a quarter). In conditions of military discipline, this only means that the opinion of the commanders was divided. Moreover, the rebellion was supported by a minority.
This means that Utkin acted contrary to the decision of the majority.
He acted largely confident in his rightness and supported by Prigozhin.
But neither the people nor the army supported him.
The president even called it a betrayal.
Utkin eventually realized this and stopped the column.
3. None of the commanders (even those who did not support the rebellion) publicly spoke negatively about Utkin!
This, on the one hand, testifies to the highest authority of Utkin, and on the other hand, the commanders understood that a split (and public squabbles are a split) would finally finish off the Wagner PMC.
Wagner needed to be saved somehow - to isolate the unit from the odious Prigozhin, but at the same time to do this without internal squabbles.
And this (rebellion) was Utkin’s fault, albeit instigated by Prigozhin.
---
So, in order to somehow overcome the split, it was necessary not only to shoot Prigozhin (and especially leave a note), but to resolve this issue
somehow differently, without externalizing Wagner’s internal contradictions.
Once again, none of the commanders spoke negatively about either Utkin or Prigozhin. Although the jamb of both is more than obvious.

Utkin, realizing his guilt before his comrades, decided to resolve this situation this way.
Another interesting fact is that almost none of the famous commanders (with the exception of Utkin) were on this plane. Who knows, maybe Utkin ordered it this way.
----
Conspiracy theories?
Facts: there was a plane crash, there were fragments of hand grenades in the bodies.
You also perceived these facts as nonsense!
Once again, you were presented with a fact (grenade fragments in the bodies), and you reacted - “nonsense.”

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: flicker

Conspiracy theories?

Clean water. The most delusional, without the slightest hint of logic.

Quote: flicker

Wagner needed to be saved somehow - to isolate the unit from the odious Prigozhin, but at the same time to do this without internal squabbles.

I'm wondering how such stupidity could even come to mind. Wagner did not need to be saved from anyone at all; his fate was completely determined during the negotiations between Putin and Prigozhin, in the presence of PMC commanders. That is, a certain consensus was reached (amnesty for PMC fighters; those who wish and did not participate in the putsch attempt can enter into a contract with the Moscow Region; those who do not wish - to Belarus or demobilization), and that’s all, from the outside no one else spoke to Wagner about the march to Moscow didn't threaten.
From within, the split was only that some supported the rebellion, others did not. In such a situation, the maximum that is required from a leader to overcome such a split is resignation. with the appointment of someone who will suit the remaining commanders in the ranks. There is absolutely no need to kill yourself, Prigozhin, five colleagues, and certainly the innocent crew of the plane.
Now let's consider option three, which has at least a shadow of plausibility. Let's say Utkin sees that Prigozhin has not calmed down and sees in him a threat to all of Wagner. In this case, he could still liquidate Prigozhin, but exactly as I said - him/himself/the note, and if there is no desire to make it public, then without the note. It would hardly have been difficult for Utkin to kill Prigozhin without any drama at all, without exposing himself, if there was a need for this.

Quote: flicker

Once again, you were presented with a fact (grenade fragments in the bodies), and you reacted - “nonsense.”

I was not presented with the fact. They told me nonsense.

[flicker]

[quote]. Clean water. Delusional, without the slightest hint of logic./quote]

We were informed of the fact that grenade fragments were found in the bodies. It's stupid to argue with this.

Then someone blew up this grenade (or grenades). It’s also stupid to argue with this.

There are two situations: either it exploded accidentally or someone deliberately exploded it.

The first option is possible, but military people can handle grenades. There is a possibility but it is small.
The second option, someone deliberately blew it up - you need to look for someone who had a motive.

So, Utkin had the motive.

Utkin, incited by Prigozhin, decided to mutiny.
Utkin realized that he had committed BETRAYAL both in relation to his country and in relation to his comrades.
How should a combat officer, a warrior, feel in such a situation?

Wasn’t it he who created the Wagner PMC, wasn’t it he who set the most stringent requirements for the fighters there?!
I installed it for the fighters, but for myself?
---
How was he supposed to feel?
What did the tsarist officers do in such cases?
---
There was little hope that we would be able to start everything over again in Belarus.
But funding has stopped, there are no weapons, contracts in Africa are suspended.
What should I tell the fighters?
---
Is it important that Utkin, pushed by Prigozhin, decided to revolt contrary to the opinion of the majority of commanders?
And this was a violation of the accepted decision-making procedure in Wagner, they were proud of it.
----
The commanders were silent, not a single bad word addressed to Utkin, but they did not go to Belarus for Utkin, which indicated a decline in Utkin’s authority in the eyes of the commanders.
The commanders were silent and expected from Utkin what Utkin demanded from others in such cases.
Utkin did what he had to do, disappeared from Wagner and removed Prigozhin (the instigator of the rebellion) from there.
Prigozhin went on a rampage thanks to the support of Utkin.
So, Prigozhin in PMC Wagner is a joint of the same Utkin.
We get that Utkin is the founder of Wagner, and Utkin and Prigozhin are the gravediggers of Wagner (thanks to the rebellion).
But Wagner is not only Utkin and Prigozhin, but also commanders and fighters.
Of all of them, Utkin and Prigozhin failed.
---
Why didn’t Utkin shoot himself, but chose a plane crash?
If Utkin had shot himself, everyone would have perceived it as WEAKNESS, but Utkin NEVER wanted to look weak, just as Wagner was everywhere perceived as STRENGTH, and not as weakness. Weakness disgusted Utkin.
So the crossbow was not suitable for Utkin, which means he messed up, which means he’s a weakling. So a plane crash is just that. Accident.

Did Prigozhin know that this flight was his last?
Why were there no other commanders?
---
ZY The commanders are still silent and do not comment on the plane crash.
Why?
Maybe because they know something that others shouldn’t know.
Utkin was a WARRIOR, and he also passed away as a warrior, freeing Wagner (for his comrades) both from himself and from Prigozhin.
Warriors sacrifice themselves to save their comrades. That's how Utkin is.
---------
Once again, it’s a fact: grenade fragments were found in the bodies.
Find an explanation for this fact yourself.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Stas157

And at the cost of the lives of the crew and other passengers. Couldn’t Utkin have done this without a plane?

Perhaps he couldn't.
The accents wouldn't be the same.
Crew? Well, you were unlucky to be on the same board.
But we must understand that against the backdrop of thousands who died under your leadership, this can no longer be perceived as significant.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Stas157

And at the cost of the lives of the crew and other passengers. Couldn’t Utkin have done this without a plane?

Perhaps he couldn't.
The accents wouldn't be the same.
Crew? Well, you were unlucky to be on the same board.
But we must understand that against the backdrop of thousands who died under your leadership, this can no longer be perceived as significant.

[Stas157]

Quote: Vladimir M

Does he even believe this nonsense himself?

They have a lot of experience in carrying a blizzard together with a secretary.

[Glory1974]

No sooner had the plane taken off than someone started playing with grenades on the plane?

in 2002, a helicopter carrying Lieutenant General Garidov exploded. It’s also not clear why. According to one version, one of the special forces of the escort group blew up a grenade.

[isv000]

Quote: Vladimir M

It turns out that before the plane had time to take off, someone started playing with grenades on the plane?... There were people on the plane with combat experience. Does he even believe this nonsense himself?

How long is the flight from St. Petersburg to Tver? Half an hour? Even the parish will not have time to start playing Zarnitsa...

[Vic Vic]

Why "play". A fragmentation device could have been planted. It is also impossible to exclude the possibility of betrayal by someone on board with deliberate self-destruction.

[tralflot1832]

I’m not sure that the term PMC was invented by journalists. It was just a roof in the media field, and who are the Wagnerites then? If they were initially controlled by the Ministry of Defense. What was this unit called according to the papers of the Ministry of Defense - instructors? However, they muddied it up.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: tralflot1832

I’m not sure that the term PMC was invented by journalists. It was just a roof in the media field, and who are the Wagnerites then? If they were initially controlled by the Ministry of Defense. What was this unit called according to the papers of the Ministry of Defense - instructors? However, they muddied it up.

Well, as PMCs, they were abroad, but in Russia, before the SVO, they could be listed as private security companies and be within the framework of the law, then the SVO began and their legal status was expanded to a volunteer unit.

[tralflot1832]

Lt Air Force reserve. It seems that in Syria they were listed as a private security company, in the first publications about them. The question is how the grenades ended up on board the plane, how they were brought to the airport to begin with, and why.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: tralflot1832

The question is how the grenades ended up on board the plane, how they were brought to the airport to begin with, and why.

Do you believe that there were grenades? And that grown men, having not played enough with grenades in b. d., started playing with them on the plane? Why didn’t the investigators think of saying that trip wires were installed on the plane? They will.
Is it true that if a grenade is detonated in the cabin of an airplane, it will definitely crash?

[meandr51]

What, a box of grenades cannot be mined? Or do grenades never explode themselves? And the old woman gets into trouble...

[your1970]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Quote: tralflot1832

The question is how the grenades ended up on board the plane, how they were brought to the airport to begin with, and why.

Do you believe that there were grenades? And that grown men, having not played enough with grenades in b. d., started playing with them on the plane? Why didn’t the investigators think of saying that trip wires were installed on the plane? They will.
Is it true that if a grenade is detonated in the cabin of an airplane, it will definitely crash?

-Well, actually it’s a business jet - it’s small... It’s not an Il-76 or an Airbus...
In order for pilots to be cut by shrapnel, one F-1 is enough to hit their ears.

[Yeti suvorov]

Quote: your1970

one F-1 is enough to go head over heels

nothing like a grenade, the wing flew off...

... Prigozhin was awarded three Hero stars, a host of other orders and medals, incl. personally from the President. Even “his best friend” Shoigu gave him a Glock award...
now he turns out to be a drug addict and a traitor
and after an act of disobedience, he accidentally died as a result of careless handling of a weapon.
sounds pretty convincing, enough for hamsters

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: your1970

Well, actually it’s a business jet - it’s small..

Yes, small. But can an F-1 tear off its wing? After all, he was already falling without a wing, according to eyewitnesses. And, if the grenade explosion occurred in the wing area, then could its fragments hit the crew?
By the way, it is not indicated anywhere in whose bodies the fragments were found.

Quote: your1970

In order for pilots to be cut by shrapnel, one F-1 is enough to hit their ears.

Therefore, these are just your assumptions.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

-Well, actually it’s a business jet - it’s small... It’s not an Il-76 or an Airbus...
In order for pilots to be cut by shrapnel, one F-1 is enough to hit their ears.

No, not enough. Firstly, this grenade is not that lethal, and secondly, the layout of the aircraft will not allow it.

[Sarboz]

Quote: vovochkarzhevsky

The plane is unlikely to be destroyed by one grenade

The explosion of a grenade on board the plane of the head of the Wagner PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, who was flying at an altitude of approximately 8 kilometers, could not but lead to the destruction of the aircraft. This is what a pilot with 40 years of experience and former aircraft commander Vladimir Salnikov thinks.

- What happens during such an explosion at an altitude of approximately eight kilometers? The plane is small - a business jet. Could the wing fall off from such an explosion?


- The plane is sealed. At an altitude of eight kilometers, the air pressure inside the cabin corresponds to a level of 1500 meters. That is, the difference between the outer and inner contour is large. Air is taken from the engines, and the inside of the plane, as the pilots say, is inflated. If any explosion occurs at altitude, the plane will simply tear apart and the wings will fly off. All of this is entirely possible.

Previously, sources close to the investigation claimed that a box allegedly containing wine was brought on board Prigozhin before the flight.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

- The plane is sealed. At an altitude of eight kilometers, the air pressure inside the cabin corresponds to a level of 1500 meters. That is, the difference between the outer and inner contour is large. Air is taken from the engines, and the inside of the plane, as the pilots say, is inflated. If any explosion occurs at altitude, the plane will simply tear apart and the wings will fly off. All this is quite possible.

However, the plane did not collapse, but the console was cut off. If anything, the plane has one wing, but two consoles.

And I repeat:
The version of the explosive device is eliminated; this is the center section, one of the most durable parts of the wing structure, therefore, in the event of a plant, not only will the console be torn off, but also the fuselage will be destroyed.
What's left? It is the external impact, that is, the impact of high-speed objects, a narrow beam of fragments (circular field), or rods.

[isv000]

Quote: your1970

-Well, actually it’s a business jet - it’s small... It’s not an Il-76 or an Airbus...
In order for pilots to be cut by shrapnel, one F-1 is enough to hit their ears.

The last thing we heard from the ground was how a flight attendant entered the cabin... No comments...

[Sarboz]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Is it true that if a grenade is detonated in the cabin of an airplane, it will definitely crash?

Be sure to try it when you buy your business jet.

[meandr51]

If this were a group of environmentalists or fashion models, then yes, questions would arise. And for professional fighters, weapons are like lipstick for a lady. Always with you. And such people will carry anything, anywhere.

[tralflot1832]

meandr 51. Maybe everything was like that, I only have experience of bringing vodka on the plane and a lot of it. I just had to be crystal sober before boarding customs. Questions never arose.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: meandr51

And for professional fighters, weapons are like lipstick for a lady. Always with you.

Yes, my service weapon is a pistol, I always have it with me, I agree. But why grenades? They weren't flying to the front, to St. Petersburg.

[DymOk_v_dYmke]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Well, as PMCs, they were abroad, but in Russia, before the SVO, they could be listed as private security companies and be within the framework of the law, then the SVO began and their legal status was expanded to a volunteer unit.

In the zone, a change in status is decided by the “little guys”.
In the state, this must be formalized by state decisions.
There were no government decisions.
Everyone makes conclusions.

[Sarboz]

Quote: tralflot1832

I’m not sure that the term PMC was invented by journalists.

In fact, Prigozhin himself said that Wagner was initially a “tactical group”, and it was the journalists who stuck to the PMC.

[Al manah]

Well done, they didn’t expose themselves as a result - and that’s the point. At least we manage to clean up our own people without any problems, since it’s really against partners the gut is thin.

[Clear]

Quote: Al Manah

At least we manage to clean our own people without any problems,

Yes, no one was removed... except of course land from the site of the "accident"

[3x3zsave]

The president also noted that it is not correct to call the Wagner group a PMC; this name was invented by journalists. There are no private military companies in Russia, since there is no corresponding legislation.
Oops! “It never happened, and suddenly again.” (c)

[UAZ 452]

So who were they? And did they exist at all? Maybe a mirage?

[Al manah]

Everything is simpler, the classics described and filmed it long ago:

[glk63]

No, well, everything is correct... Capitalism, however... There I see, but there I don’t...)

[sergey_vakk]

For those who have a TV instead of a head. The rest had even more questions. It would have been better if I had kept silent altogether. Forgotten that’s all

[squid]

I knew it. what a cruel suicide!

[UAZ 452]

What is external influence? Isn’t the explosion of a grenade, like any other explosive device, like that? Does this now amount to a breakdown of on-board equipment?

[meandr51]

External is outside. Those. there was no shelling.

[Stas157]

Quote: meandr51

External is outside. Those. there was no shelling.

Message to everyone: the investigation has determined that I did not shoot at the plane. I was actually dealing with abandoned kittens at that time!

[meandr51]

In real life, even more “nonsense” does not happen. In addition, they could have mined the box with grenades. A single grenade is unlikely to destroy a plane.

[Pavel_Sveshnikov]

Well, now everything has become clear to everyone who is doing what and why. But personally, I thought that revenge on GDP would be more humane. Especially remembering the scoundrel Khodorkovsky, who subsequently repaid with black ingratitude. Apparently the GDP drew conclusions for itself based on its unsuccessful experience. I think that the Ministry of Defense did a very good job here and pushed through this decision. The Ivanovo pilots especially remember their 10 comrades.

[Aken]

As Putin himself used to say, Khodorkovsky did not promise me anything.

[isv000]

Quote from Aken

As Putin himself used to say, Khodorkovsky did not promise me anything.

Berezovsky also didn’t like mohair scarves, but I had to try them on...

[Fedka]

Didn't the experts find anything other than fragments of hand grenades? Then how did the wreckage of the plane end up within a radius of 4 km? The plane fell down in a tailspin without part of the wing and tail. Powerful grenade...

[meandr51]

Why can't there be a terrorist with a grenade on board? Let's say a spy was exposed, and he pulled out a grenade...

[dump22]

Anything could happen, but it’s better to use Occam’s razor.

[velikoros-xnumx]

Quote from: dump22

Anything could happen, but it’s better to use Occam’s razor.

You can use it, but not everyone is given it. I think your opponent has never heard such a phrase and certainly does not know its meaning.

[Fangaro]

Well, yes, PMCs, they sat, drank glasses of vodka, played Russian roulette with grenades.

[sergey_vakk]

They snacked on cocaine. It’s true, Putin, that no examination was carried out for the presence of alcohol and drugs in the bodies of the victims. But the hint was understood. Why it wasn’t carried out, guess for yourself

[Dirty Liar]

What does this have to do with the hint? This is actually standard procedure. When a weapon/explosive fires abnormally, the first thing to check is whether the person was in control of the situation. Was he under any influence (alcohol/drugs). That is, why did his grenade explode? Accident or careless handling due to inappropriate behavior?
That's why they say that "the fragments were found, but the standard alcohol/drug testing procedure was not carried out."

[Mordvin 3]

Quote from: DirtyLiar

standard alcohol/drug testing procedure was not carried out

It’s just that, most likely, the experts are stuck; they haven’t had time to check yet. When there is time, they will dig it up and conduct all the tests.

[Geodez]

Logically, they didn’t do it because they were sure that it was excluded, as it were... and now this is how it turned out.

[Factor]

Did the wing and landing gear also fall off from the grenade?

In the Tver region, they discovered the wing and landing gear of a crashed plane, on board of which was the founder of the Wagner PMC, Evgeny Prigozhin, the Izvestia newspaper reports.

The footage published by the newspaper shows a fragment of a wing with the inscription “02795”. Special equipment is working at the site where parts of the aircraft were found. “This is one of the large parts that fell off in the air and fell here in the forest next to the river,” the publication’s correspondent said.

According to telegram channel “112”, the wing and landing gear of the business jet fell 3 km from the crash site, not far from the Kuzhenkino railway station.

The day before, an element of the tail of Prigozhin’s crashed plane was found 3,5 km from the crash site. Another piece of the plane was found approximately 2 km from the crash site, at the entrance to Kuzhenkino.

What kind of drug do you need to inject yourself in order to voice such a version?

The people are not suckers and remember the reports from the site of the plane crash.

[Essex62]

They think he's a loser, because they manage to screw him over regularly. And some people don’t care at all.

[your1970]

Quote: Factor

The day before, an element of the tail unit of Prigozhin’s crashed plane was found 3,5 km from the crash site. Another piece of the plane was found approximately 2 km from the crash site, at the entrance to Kuzhenkino

In the 90s, while refueling, the strategist hit the tanker slightly - so the wreckage was almost 40km stretched outWITHOUT explosion....

[Geodez]

perhaps the grenade was thrown not from the inside, but from the outside, and not just one, but a bunch, from an ambush.

[dump22]

There are no private military companies in Russia, since there is no corresponding legislation.

Yeah, since there is no regulating law, that means there is no subject of regulation.
Original. Boldly. Freshly.

Just one more question.
Did Prigozhin recruit prisoners for himself from prison and pardon them, too, outside of any law?

[Bulrumeb]

Since he himself is voicing this from the rostrum, then as I understand it, we are invited to believe it? ...

[75 Sergey]

Remember “Kursk”, but the truth was never voiced.

[isv000]

Quote: 75Sergey

Remember “Kursk”, but the truth was never voiced.

Everything was announced and shown in the very first days, including a photo of the Toledo in the Norwegian dock...

[matsur]

Quote: Bulrumeb

Since he himself is voicing this from the rostrum, then as I understand it, we are invited to believe it? ...

What, is there a choice?)))

[75 Sergey]

Some kind of bullshit. Did something explode inside among the grenades?

[Alt 22]

Well, yes, if the explosives were planted in advance, then of course there was no EXTERNAL influence, yes.

[isv000]

Quote: Alt22

Well, yes, if the explosives were planted in advance, then of course there was no EXTERNAL influence, yes.

If you follow this version, then the “bookmark” could have been made there in advance, but not touched for the time being...

[Factor]

The company that produced the plane was not allowed to participate in the investigation of the crash of Prigozhin’s plane.

Brazil invited Russia to jointly investigate the crash of Prigozhin’s plane, since the plane was manufactured by a Brazilian company. Moscow decided to study the evidence on its own

Russia has notified its decision not to investigate the circumstances of the crash of the business jet of Wagner PMC founder Yevgeny Prigozhin in accordance with international standards “at the moment,” Reuters writes, citing the Brazilian Center for the Investigation and Prevention of Aviation Accidents (CENIPA).

Previously, CENIPA, in order to improve flight safety, announced its readiness to join the investigation of the disaster if an invitation from Moscow is received, and the investigation proceeds in accordance with international rules.

The investigation was also not allowed MAC.

The IAC is organizing the process of investigating aircraft accidents on Russian territory, as follows from a 1998 government decree. This document approves the rules for investigating aviation accidents and incidents involving civil aircraft. But the committee said on August 30 that it was not conducting an investigation into the business jet crash. Representatives of MAK are not included in the commission of the Federal Air Transport Agency

Initially, everyone was thrown out, so that later it would be more convenient to call the “Kremlin” version of the crash.

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

There are no private military companies in Russia, since there is no corresponding legislation.

Wow! That is, this is an illegal armed group? Which was financed from the state budget (according to Putin himself)? Is it okay that there is a deadline for financing illegal armed groups?

[Mint Gingerbread]

When something happens to people of this level, it is 99% a man-made event with a specific purpose, and 1% is the influence of fate. They were playing with a grenade or there was a breakdown in some part of the plane.

[pettabyte]

It is very doubtful that they were playing and this is what happened.
Firstly, 1 grenade doesn’t go off all that powerfully.
Secondly, the people there are not exactly inexperienced, at least one is actually Wagner.
And the age is not the same.

[The collective farm is voluntary.]

VVP, in general, wanted to say that “we didn’t shoot him down,” but somehow it turned out unconvincingly.
PS: Toxicology must be done in the event of the death of such persons!

[r5555]

Aha, the hint is clear, they overloaded themselves with drugs and then blew themselves up with grenades))) But what a beautiful speech it was at the beginning... and then it gets screwed like that.

Sometimes it is better for a king to chew than to speak.

Even if we assume that there was cocaine, then where were our valiant structures that catch such scoundrels? Well, if we assume that this was done with their tacit consent, then what are other people, the same, no less public, carrying, like, for example, Shoigu smoking while fishing?

[former soldier]

"a grenade exploded"

This grenade was whose grenade it should be. The rest is specific.

[Mr. One Two]

It was what was not. In our lifetime, we will not know. Continue commenting and reflecting, let off some steam already.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

Well, yes, of course it wasn’t. Exactly the opposite.

[isv000]

This is a grenade mark...
And then the fuselage will fall out of the cloud, having first thrown back the tail and wing...

[Geodez]

So I’m talking about what was meant, that a grenade, or rather a bunch of them, was thrown outside, and then everything fits together

[egorMTG]

- In short, “Question Closed!”.... Let's move on...

[Sergey Valov]

Interesting places around Kuzhenkino. Very close, under the same name, are the huge GRAU warehouses, a little to the southeast, 10-15 kilometers away, the Khotilovo air defense airfield, where, by the way, the government air squad is based, fortunately Valdai is very close. But 30 - 40 km towards St. Petersburg there are two regiments of the Strategic Missile Forces, in Vypolzovo. And how did Prigozhin’s plane end up there? Miracles. Those interested can look at these objects in Yandex maps.

[PavelT]

There are no miracles.
You will be surprised, but most civil planes from Moscow to St. Petersburg fly this way! Simply because it’s shorter and there are corridors (L4, N50 - you can look at skyvector.com in World Hi mode) for civil aviation. That’s why civilian airliners fly there all the time. Example: October 5, around 19 p.m.:

But! They must always fly with their transponders turned on - with their own unique number assigned by dispatchers to a specific flight/flight plan. If the transponder is turned off, the plane turns into... a UFO. To which air defense in the area of ​​such objects logically reacts nervously.

That’s why no one (being in their right mind) ever turns off the transponders on this Moscow-St. Petersburg highway.

But for some reason Prigozhin’s business jet turned off the transponder (or did it turn off on its own?). At night on the day of the disaster, I looked at flightradar24 and there you can see how the transponder signals of that plane inexplicably disappeared along with its trajectory 140 km BEFORE the crash site (still near Shernevo, near Tver, coordinates approximately: 56.7574283N 35.4611206E).

Here in the article: https://newizv.ru/news/2023-08-24/flightradar24-opublikoval-otchet-o-krushenii-samoleta-evgeniya-prigozhina-417409 there is that track in the screenshot - exactly up to this point of turning off the transponder under Shernevo, near Tver. And then there is no track! So the transponder turned off. But in the text the opposite is stated... as if they have some data for those 140 km after Shernevo, after Tver. Strange statements.

I think they simply turned off the transponder at 15:10 UTC (at 18:10 Moscow time) over Shernevo. And the plane continued to fly like a UFO. Towards the strategic objects of our Motherland. As if to get out of it later: "we didn’t shoot down Prigozhin’s civilian plane, we shot down a mysterious target, a UFO without transponder signals!"A very convenient excuse. A very logical reason why the transponder suddenly (itself? from the outside?) turned off. Well, or flightradar24.com is lying.

[Sergey Valov]

You're right. I looked at the flytradar. Indeed, one of the air corridors runs literally 10-15 km from Kuzhenkino and Vypolzovo. I can imagine how nervous the local anti-aircraft gunners are, because the scenario a la September 11, but here we cannot discount it.

[PavelT]

Moreover, I will say: before the COVID pandemic, some of the high-altitude (above 10.5 km) INTERNATIONAL corridors passed directly ABOVE Moscow.
One from north to south N181 (from the USA, Canada to all sorts of Emirates) and back N156 over the Kremlin.

And one N858 to Europe from Japan and China over Teply Stan and Butovo (the return M864 passes in the Sheremetyego area, just north of the Moscow Ring Road).

I saw such planes over Moscow City a couple of times in clear weather and suddenly tensed up out of habit that the Moscow zone seemed to be prohibited for flights. It turned out to be no longer there. I did my research, asked people on the topic and learned a lot.

But the tension remained: what if some pilot from the Emirates suddenly decided to dive from 11 km to the Kremlin? If he directs it well, then nothing can stop this...

[Sergey Valov]

I know that they constantly fly over Moscow; I live in Vykhino and almost every day I see traces at high altitude from planes flying through the city center. It is unlikely that these are passenger sides, but then who? Weather scouts, government aircraft, military?? From Domodedovo, passenger planes pass very close to the Moscow Ring Road. And our ambulance helicopters fly almost every day and at low altitude; they have a site on the territory of the 15th hospital.

[isv000]

Quote: PavelT

I think they simply turned off the transponder at 15:10 UTC (at 18:10 Moscow time) over Shernevo. And the plane continued to fly like a UFO. Towards the strategic objects of our Motherland.

The plane was from “partners”, and these “friends” can do any dirty trick, including intercepting control of the plane remotely. Moreover, you can turn off the transponder from any smartphone, if only you have the desire and skills. Next, the UFO is grounded according to the rules of combat duty. The version with a grenade could have arisen to justify holes in the elements of the aircraft. Something like this...

[PavelT]

I strongly doubt that “you can turn off the transponder from any smartphone.” The transponder is made so that it can be turned off only from the remote control in the cockpit (sometimes not even with one toggle switch, but with two in different places). But, if a competent specialist digs around in the cockpit of this aircraft for half an hour/hour, then it is quite possible to arrange a delayed shutdown of this transponder. And not even just turning off.
And the shutdown is so clever that the crew is sure that the transponder continues to work...
This is more difficult, but probably also possible.

Intercepting control of an airplane is generally in the realm of delusional conspiracy theories.

Firstly, pilots and technicians/electronics engineers would have accidentally discovered this long ago when servicing aircraft. After all, it is unrealistic to avoid such an accident (especially if such a possibility is built into not one aircraft, but two, three or more) - and this has never happened. Nowhere in the world.

Secondly, the ability to control the aircraft from the outside remotely, secretly built into any serial civil aircraft, of any type, any series and quantity, is simply a nightmare for any intelligence service in the world! Here all the special services will be united and on one side of the barricades - they don’t need that. After all, this possibility greatly simplifies the organization of terrorist attacks “like September 11th” - there is no need to look for ideological suicides and seize the cockpit of an airplane!
Since the special services and airlines do not need this, they will cut such developments in the bud.

[Andrey the Magnificent]

The Kingdom of Heaven to Eugene and Dmitry and eternal memory to the Heroes and Patriots of Russia, who never betrayed it and were honest to the very end.

[isv000]

Quote: Andrew the Magnificent

The Kingdom of Heaven to Eugene and Dmitry and eternal memory to the Heroes and Patriots of Russia, who never betrayed it and were honest to the very end.

Plus I put it, but I wouldn’t rush into the kingdom of heaven yet...

[faiver]

I wonder who all these words (about the danger of grenades in enclosed spaces) were addressed to?

[Maks1995]

Yes Yes. Everyone believes, believes, like Muller from the movie...
And it’s interesting - if Amer’s presidents and candidates are often shot at, then somehow we have more and more air accidents in progress.
The general and the eye surgeon are some of the really popular candidates, Prigozhin here... and the Unnamable, too, almost right on the plane, but they pumped it out...
But only one well-known one was shot, and that was a published one....

[flicker]

. flicker
27 August 2023 22: 09
NEW
-3
The Investigative Committee of Russia confirmed the death of Yevgeny Prigozhin in a plane crash in the Tver region
---
The reason may be much more prosaic.
The mutiny split the Wagner commanders, the mutiny could have resulted in a civil war in Russia, the mutiny took the lives of Russian pilots, and finally, the mutiny put an end to the financing of the Wagner PMC and closed the road to Africa.
And all because of the position of some Wagner commanders.
Who knows, maybe the council of commanders blamed Prigozhin and Utkin for this?
What does a screwed up but honored officer do?
Perhaps Utkin decided (like a real officer) to die with dignity and open up new opportunities for PMC Wagner.
---
Rebranding at the cost of your own life.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: flicker

Perhaps Utkin decided (like a real officer) to die with dignity and open up new opportunities for PMC Wagner.

And at the same time, he took the pilots to the next world along with the flight attendant.

[flicker]

And at the same time, he took the pilots to the next world along with the flight attendant.

Utkin is a combat officer, he is used to setting tasks that are solved at the cost of the lives of soldiers. He was accustomed to risking both his life and the lives of his comrades.
So I had a philosophical attitude towards death.
----
The PMC was named by his call sign - "Wagner", this is his brainchild, which instilled terror in his enemies.
I think he sincerely loved PMC Wagner and was proud of its successes.
At some point, probably under the influence of Prigozhin, he overestimated the capabilities of PMCs and, having split, Wagner rebelled.
As a result, he lost funding and contracts in Africa (read: he let down his comrades in arms), discredited his brainchild, Wagner, essentially ruined it, but the reputation was created on the blood of the fighters.

He had to somehow restore the good name of his brainchild PMC Wagner, return contracts in Africa, return funding, and punish the instigator of the rebellion Prigozhin.
---
In fact, this is what we have.
PMC Wagner is back in service, again in Africa, but without the odious Prigozhin.

[Mordvin 3]

In addition to Utkin, Prigozhin, two pilots and a flight attendant, there were five more people there.

Quote: flicker

"Wagner" was his brainchild, which instilled terror in his enemies.

And it was Utkin who led the column to Moscow.

[flicker]

. In addition to Utkin, Prigozhin, two pilots and a flight attendant, there were five more people there.

Warrior mentality.
Accustomed to solving problems at the cost of life.
His task was to restore (as much as possible) the reputation of the Wagner unit, which had suffered due to the mutiny. It would be necessary to kill 20 people.
"Paris is worth mass."
----

. And it was Utkin who led the column to Moscow

Yes. And this was precisely his TRAGEDY.
At PMC Wagner, the decision was made at the council of commanders.
In fact, a minority of Wagner’s l/s took part in the rebellion.
Those. Wagner split not in favor of the rebels.
This means that Utkin led a column to Moscow against the will of the majority of commanders (comrades in arms, if that).
After the mutiny, Wagner's reputation was undermined - and it was created at the cost of the lives of the soldiers.
Funding has stopped and contracts in Africa are frozen.
How after this Utkin had to look his commanders (comrades in arms) in the eyes.
Utkin realized that Prigozhin had drawn him into a dirty business (he, a Russian patriot, had directed him against Russia).
---
Utkin, as a real officer, decided, at the cost of his life (and the life of Prigozhin), to provide PMC Wagner (his comrades) with a rebranding.
Which is essentially what we see.

[Geodez]

Well, he probably wouldn’t have done it in a plane crash, so that everyone would then wonder what it was, he’s not, but a combat officer.

[kakvastam]

It was disgusting to listen to.
Wiping your feet on the dead is disgusting.

[Santa Fe]

It was disgusting to listen to.
Wiping your feet on the dead is disgusting.

He’s been wiping away the living, too, for more than 20 years

[vovochkarzhevsky]

So, the video shows a plane crashing without one console.

Moreover, the console is cut off near the fuselage.
The version of the explosive device is eliminated; this is the center section, one of the most durable parts of the wing structure, therefore, in the event of a plant, not only will the console be torn off, but also the fuselage will be destroyed.
What's left? It is the external impact, that is, the impact of high-speed objects, a narrow beam of fragments (circular field), or rods.

[PavelT]

And the air defense missile from the Pantsir-S1 air defense system is best suited for the role of this “external influence” (https://web.archive.org/web/20150723091841/http://dokwar.ru/publ/vooruzhenie/pvo_i_rvsn/ zenitnyj_raketno_pushechnyj_kompleks_zrpk_pancir_s1/16-1-0-186 )

Namely, the 57E6-E anti-aircraft guided missile (destruction altitude up to 15 km, destruction range 20 km) - it leaves a surprisingly weak contrail at the target (or does not leave it at all during the last 10-15 km to the target).
Simply because the active part of the rocket (the upper stage) only works for the first 2.4 seconds - this is less than 4 km of trajectory ( https://web.archive.org/web/20170929091327/http://army.lv/ru/pantsir-s1/703 /461 ), and then it fires back, accelerating the rocket to 1300 m/sec. Then only the sustainer stage flies - a warhead with rudders (the caliber of the warhead is smaller - this reduces losses due to aerodynamic drag, speed losses of approximately 40 m/sec per 1 km of travel, 400 m/sec per 10 km). This warhead with air rudders flies further towards the target, the remaining 10-15 km are simply due to inertia!

No contrail at all...
Here is a video from shooting at the range on this topic: https://youtu.be/H4TGyxubHM4?t=81 - the explosion is visible, but there is no contrail in front of the target.

And at 18 km from the launch site, the speed of such a warhead is a considerable 780 m/sec. This is almost enough to catch up with a business aircraft at a speed of about 300 m/sec or less. 20 kg warhead hits the target just the core elements, cutting off the tail or wings of the target aircraft with a minimum of unnecessary fragmentation holes in the body.

[r5555]

And now the regular minus players have stepped up. Minus everyone who spoils the rating of the Tsar Father

[matsur]

This is the Bastrykin who does not see the crime in the beating of what’s his name, Zhuravel?)))

[linux28]

A ton of powder was found in Zhuravel’s cell. He got stoned himself and attacked first. Maybe.

[Sergei N 58912062]

... fragments of hand grenades were found in the bodies of those killed in the plane crash. There was no external influence on the plane.

[AA22Helmet]

And at the Russian trade mission in San Francisco, after employees left and US representatives entered, they found 135 kilograms of cocaine, which was immediately reported in the press. Why would that be????

[Brother]

Hmm....well well! “it wasn’t”... - “I believe”

[Eugene Zaboy]

Muddy story. Why was it necessary to explode grenades on board? It is hardly possible to reconstruct the chronology of what actually happened on board. An explosive device based on hand grenades on an airplane is very difficult to implement.

[jonht]

I read the comments and no one asked the question that a grenade explosion in the cabin would not have torn off the wing, but would have torn apart the fuselage of the plane. Anyone in doubt can watch the video of the plane crash. So I’m closer to the version that was voiced in the early days. “Laying explosive devices into the landing gear of an aircraft,” and the destructive elements can be any, including grenades. But this is my vision.
And as for who benefits, in terms of importance: Ukraine, France, the English, the Federal States, and somewhere in our Defense Ministry too. And in my opinion, the most offended are the Franks, the “Wagnerites” have become painfully good at pushing them out of their homes in Africa. But the process still cannot be stopped.

[Santa Fe]

and no one wondered that a grenade explosion in the cabin would not have torn off the wing, but would have torn apart the fuselage of the plane

Anyone who is looking for even a drop of meaning in the words of GDP, considers technical details about the effect of grenades on a business jet, is greatly discrediting himself

According to the laws of the genre, petty lies only give rise to suspicion. A lie must be monstrous and divorced from reality in order for it to be accepted and discussed

And let them discuss the obvious stupidity about grenades rather than the stories about who planted the explosives or fired the missiles. And so - we laughed, joked and that’s enough. By the end of the year they will forget about the Wagners

[A2AD]

And let them discuss the obvious stupidity about grenades rather than the stories about who planted the explosives or fired the missiles.

This seems to be the whole point of this speech. He mumbled something and let in the fog. Now all sorts of fleachers on their payroll will catch up and start releasing one fantastic version after another. It is quite obvious that two goals are being pursued: 1 to chatter everything, to confuse, to divert inconvenient questions into the mainstream of market hubbub. 2 If suddenly the real version leaks somehow. Then it will simply get lost against the background of hundreds of others, invented by paid balabols.

[jonht]

Since when did technical features begin to refer to lies. Hit yourself in the forehead with a spoon and knife, you will get the action and the “meaning” in your forehead. But the result is chic from a spoon, and a cut from a knife.
So, in order to figure it out, you first need to understand the technical reasons, they will make it possible to dig further. And “you,” as I understand it, have already figured it all out.... It’s strange that they haven’t yet reported the results to the public with full “technical documentation” of the incident...

[vovochkarzhevsky]

So I’m closer to the version that was voiced in the early days. “Laying explosive devices into the landing gear of an aircraft,” and the destructive elements can be any, including grenades. But this is my vision.

The bookmark will destroy the entire plane, but the console is what was cut off.

[Sergey Khatylaev]

Somehow I remembered the militia commanders, they also allowed themselves a lot, I also heard about “to the Kremlin.” Oh, how.

[Krilion]

clearly... quite expected... they blew themselves up...

[Ross xnumx]

“There was no external influence”

We treat this statement with understanding.

[Graz]

all this is sewn with white thread, all this does not paint the government, which itself is constantly losing authority before its people

[AUL]

Quote: Andrey VOV

this is what he said, as Bastrykin reported to him.

And Bastrykin said how they reported to him. And they reported to him as he was ordered to report...

[Foaly]

The wing and tail could fall off due to aerodynamic overloads, which at an altitude of 8 km can be very hard. When the An-24 fell apart in the air in the Soviet Union (slower speed, lower altitude), the scattering of fragments exceeded 700 meters. The wing, of course, would not have separated from the grenade explosion, but the plane could have become loose, at least from depressurization.
And how and why the grenade exploded - maybe no one needs to know anymore. Prigozhin, in essence, was no longer a tenant. He encroached on the current configuration of power, which the real centers of power, whom it suits, could not tolerate. Security agencies, billionaires (ex-oligarchs), regional elites (for example, the Chechen). And there were more than enough external enemies. The king did not have to do anything himself to punish the presumptuous baron - he simply defiantly deprived him of his patronage, and no one is particularly keen to establish which of the dukes specifically reached out.

[Foaly]

As a result? The result was that the turmoil calmed down, there were no active hostilities on Russian territory (except for downed planes), and the source of the indignation was neutralized. And what did Russia lose in this very end?

[Repellent]

Quote: Santa Fe

This is how it is always in Russia - Russians will support any government from the sofa, and will not do anything when this government needs support

Well, yes, well, yes... from afar, as you know, you know better. And from America, it’s especially clear, right, my dear?

Quote: Santa Fe

the path to Moscow was open,

Well, why lie? Or is it already a habit?

[Santa Fe]

Well, why lie?

A small private army passed through 4 or 5 regions in the central part of Russia in a day, without encountering resistance (in addition, it managed to take control of the million-strong city of Rostov-on-Don)

All that was on the way were abandoned empty cars of utility workers. And several helicopters risked shooting at the PMC columns and immediately fell to the ground (if the pilots had known about the consequences, who knows where they would have flown; the 16 dead officers who defended the President from the coup were simply forgotten the next day). Well this is particular

A day later, Wagner’s army was near Moscow. In the cities along the path of the PMC columns, no one even thought about resistance - the quiet ones sat on the couch, the most active ones, on the contrary, warmly welcomed the PMCs. Local authorities were inactive everywhere - the most experienced leaders managed to write on social networks - We are with the President! (though without specifying which one). Kadyrov’s men “stood in a traffic jam” on the highway all these days and never reached Rostov; in principle, no other behavior was expected from them

The question is how long would Moscow resist under such conditions. Given the news - about who was supposed to be thrown to defend the capital - the police were urgently called and were given machine guns.
And the already well-known barricades of communal vehicles

[Million]

Does anyone else really believe him????? He lies so much that he has no faith at all.

[mixail sherbakov]

Alcohol testing is carried out routinely, why wasn’t it done this time? The authorities continue to multiply lies, increasing mistrust in themselves.

[Foaly]

The stump is clear, there was an examination. Another thing is that the results will not be announced. Smart people understand why.

[acetophenone]

The president also noted that it is not correct to call the Wagner group a PMC; this name was invented by journalists.

Oh, these are great for meАtive journalists!
“Wagner” is not to blame for going to Moscow, but for not getting there.

[Archivist Vasya]

In this investigation, the main thing for our management is not to expose themselves! It’s a pity that Shoigu wasn’t on the plane...

[ZovSailor]

uv friends and foes, incl. CIPsio!
Uncle investigator and prosecutor will find the true reason...
With that, let us believe in our fairest court in the world...
The conclusions are up to you and us.
I have the honor.

[amr]

Quote: Santa Fe

The names of the people who personally insulted the guarantor, making him appear confused and frightened to the whole country and the whole world

How could he be afraid of a staged riot))? this, of course, goes against the official version, but still, even this staged rebellion was not aimed at the guarantor, but rather at Shoigu and Gerasimov? No?

[Geodez]

Or maybe Prigozhin and Utkin planned this, they explode a grenade on the plane in the hope that the guarantor in Valdai is telling the truth, but they don’t trust him because it’s not logical. As a result, they confirm the status of heroes and also add innocent martyrs, while opponents are confirmed in the status of malicious liars... what a subtle revenge.