Hypersound passion

62
Over the past month, several controversial statements have been made on the progress of the national hypersonic program.

At first, Izvestia reported that, according to specialists from TsAGI, the “practical” work on the domestic hypersound was frozen until 2014. "So far it is known that work has been stopped until 2014 of the year. In general, our X-90 purges in the pipes stopped in the 2010 year, and for the next two years only theoretical calculations were carried out," the newspaper's interlocutor added. In the ICD, the publication was told that GZLA "has been irrelevant for 10 years" and "no prototypes have been produced there." He does not know about any experimental flights.

Some time later, this message was refuted by Dmitry Rogozin, who said that no one was going to give up on the GZLA project.

What really happens with the domestic hypersound? Obviously, newspaper sources talked about different hypersonic devices, differing from each other by several "generations." As for Rogozin, he in his peculiar specific manner tried to report that the hypersonic program as such is still going on.

So what is hypersonic speed? We understand them very broadly, even attributing to ordinary supersonic Sukhoi business jets. However, the rigorous definition of hypersound is a speed in excess of five speeds of sound (5M). For a short time (on the order of tens of seconds), many rockets with “classical” rocket engines reach it, but a long flight at such speeds is possible only with the use of hypersonic ramjet engines (scramjet, also known as scramjet). Their main advantage is in the absence of the need to “carry” on themselves an oxidizing agent, which constitutes the main mass of rocket fuel. Atmospheric oxygen is used instead. The main fuel for "scramjet" can be either hydrogen or ordinary hydrocarbon fuel (kerosene), to achieve which burning at hypersonic speeds is multiple times more difficult.

Development of scramjet in the USSR began in the 1950-x. The first projects of hypersonic aircraft, which are not “clean” rocket planes, appeared in the USSR at the beginning of the 1960's. So, the designers took up the development of a reusable space system "Spiral", consisting of a hypersonic accelerating aircraft (GSR) and a military orbital aircraft (OS) with a rocket accelerator. The GSR, which was proposed to be used as a scout, had to accelerate to 6 sound speeds (6М) when using hydrogen as a fuel, and in the kerosene version to 4-4,5. However, the device was planned to equip not scramjet, and turbojet engines - but a very sophisticated design.

With regard to the development of hypersonic direct flow, in fact, the Soviet program began in the 1970-s. Unlike the Americans, it was decided not to use special-built vehicles, but serial anti-aircraft missiles as flying laboratories.

In 1979, the USSR approved a research plan for the use of cryogenic fuel, including hydrogen, for aviation engines. The plan also provided for the development of aircraft with supersonic and hypersonic speeds. However, the program was not a priority and did not advance quickly.

The real impetus to work was given by the likely adversary. In 1986 in the USA, the largest after the Apollo lunar program, research and development projects of the NASP (National Aerospace Plane) project began. Their end result was to be a space plan X-30, capable of going into orbit in a single-stage version. The most important feature of the project was a dual-mode “scramjet” operating in a wide range of speeds - from high subsonic to M = 25.

The apparatus could be viewed diverse military use, and in the USSR immediately responded. In 1986, it was decided to create the Soviet equivalent of the NASP, a single-stage reusable aerospace plane (MVKS). From the submitted projects, approval was given to the Tu-2000 with a combined power plant: turbojet engines (TRD) + scramjet + liquid rocket engines (LRE). A giant bomber appeared on the drawings with a starting weight of 360 tons, speed 6М, flight range 10 thousand km at altitude 30 km. The space variant, capable of going into orbit up to 200 km with a payload of 8-10 tons, weighed 260 tons, had a speed from M = 15 to M = 25 (first space).

By the beginning of the 1990-ies Tupolev Design Bureau built the elements of the wing and fuselage, cryogenic tanks and fuel lines. Intensively developed scramjet itself. In CIAM, under the Kholod program, a hypersonic flight laboratory (GLL) was developed based on the C-200 anti-aircraft missile. 27 November 1991, the first flight of the laboratory took place - however, so far without the inclusion of a "scramjet".

With the collapse of the USSR, work on the Tu-2000 went into a sluggish mode - the next version of the bomber continued to “develop” on paper as part of the Eagle 1993-96 program.

The project participants immediately tried to enter the international market. Buyers were found almost instantly. The first were the French. In 1992, with their participation, a second experiment took place, in which the scramjet turned on and the GLL reached M = 5.35. During the third flight of the Russian-French program, in which it was supposed to reach speeds over 6 M, the rocket failed.

Meanwhile, the NASP project did not flourish. In 1993, the program was revised, and soon it was finally closed - good, the enemy left the race. However, no one was going to give up the development of hypersonic technologies as such - all the more so because there was an opportunity to save money. In 1994, NASA has signed a contract with CIAM to conduct flight experiments with the GLL Cold. The contract worth - attention - 1,8 million dollars involved the development and manufacture of four engines and the testing of two GLLs, together with specialists from CIAM. One of the engines remained in reserve, and another was transferred directly to the Americans. The test launch of the "full-fledged" GLL was made on 12 in February of 1998 from the Sary-Shagan test site in Kazakhstan. The duration of the scramjet operation was 77 sec., The achieved speed - 6,5 M. At the same time, the “hypersonic” part of the apparatus, naturally, was not separated, and the overwhelming part of the thrust was provided by the C-200 engine. A total of seven flights were conducted on 1999, three of them with a scramjet operating.

The heir to "Cold" became "Cold-2". The “needle” is a small hypersonic device that was supposed to reach speed in 14M, accelerating with the help of a hydrogen scramjet within 50 seconds. Another direction of work is connected with GLL-31 - less fast (M = 8,5) hydrogen GLL, launched from an aircraft carrier (Mig-31).

In 2004, against the backdrop of the great rocket at the 2004 Security exercise, Putin made a statement that still stirs the minds of "the public." "Experiments and some tests were carried out ... Soon the Russian Armed Forces will receive combat complexes capable of operating at intercontinental distances, at hypersonic speed, with great accuracy, with a wide maneuver in height and direction of impact. These complexes will render any future missile defense models unavailable - existing or prospective. "

Domestic media immediately generated a number of non-trivial interpretations of this statement: "Russia also developed the world's first hypersonic maneuvering rocket, which was launched from the Tu-160 strategic bomber in February 2004, when the 2004 Security Command Headquarters. The launch was watched by then-Russian President Vladimir Putin. The Americans for some reason called this rocket “AS-19 Koala” (Koala is a bamboo bear). According to statements by our military, the “bear” could overcome any anti-missile harrow any opponent without difficulty at speeds 3-4 M. missile could carry 2 warhead and hit targets at once 2 100 from a distance in kilometers. "

The second version of the legend is the story of hypersonic warheads, which allegedly already stand on the domestic Topol-M.

At the same time, the most striking thing in the description of the teachings was that it was clearly stated thatweapon It was launched by a PC-18 ballistic missile, and it had nothing to do with Topol, or, moreover, with the Tu-160.

We will understand. HZLA ("Koala"), the maximum "promised" speed of which was 4,5 M, is not hypersonic by definition (hypersonic speeds - over 5M). The stable operation of the scramjet is possible only at speeds from 5 M. In other words, this is not a rocket with a hypersonic ramjet engine, but with an order of magnitude simpler supersonic (SPVRD) that used hydrogen produced by decomposition of kerosene as a fuel. Financing of the project was discontinued in 1992 due to technical difficulties, however, the Raduga Design Bureau apparently had been sluggish for some time on its own initiative.

The standard "Topol" combat unit is hypersonic in exactly the same sense that the warheads of any other ballistic missiles are hypersonic. The planning combat unit was developed for the Albatross missile system, but the choice was made in favor of a more budget option. The tests of the Topol equipment with maneuvering warheads started on November 1 2005 of the year, but in this case it is also not about the scramjet, but about the old idea of ​​Mr. Solomon to equip warheads with individual solid-fuel rocket engines.

In fact, in 2004, "throwing" (without switching on the engine) tests of the same "Needle" took place, while unsuccessful - according to Solomonov, the device burned down in the atmosphere (the original plans, according to the illustrations quietly hanging on MAX) spirals and parachuting).

The next stage of the domestic hypersonic program is associated with a GLL AP-02 equipped with a kerosene scramjet (speed up to M 6). The layout of the GLL was first shown in the 2007 year, bench testing began in the 2010. It is also known about the "not very successful test" in 2011.

As for the Russian-Indian project of the Brahmos-2 hypersonic anti-ship missile, it is known that the initiative to launch it belonged to Delhi, and at first it was skeptically received by the Russian side. India is building on its experience with the HSTDV hypersonic demonstrator, designed jointly with the Israeli aircraft manufacturer IAI (purchasing its drones the Russian Ministry of Defense was "carried away") with the limited participation of the Russian TsAGI and CIAM. Probably, the domestic hypersonic anti-ship missile "Zirkon-S" will be a version of "Brahmos-2".

In other words, the state of the hypersonic program of Russia looks rather doubtful. The mythologized HMZA was in fact buried for a long time, and the work on hypersonic devices in general, about which a source at TsAGI apparently spoke, was frozen until the 2014 year. The statements of another "informed source" Izvestia, not deprived of originality, testify to strange moods in the domestic MIC: "Among the hypersonic devices, only the American experiments X-15, X-43, X-51 proved successful. One of them was tested as manned. But all they are beyond the atmospheric, and maneuvering at hypersonic speeds in the air at the present level of technological development is impossible in the air. " The source told the newspaper that the engine, which not only stably supports the work in supersonic mode, but also is able to switch to hypersound, remains an unsolvable problem. According to him, the need for hypersonic controlled flights in the atmosphere has not been substantiated.

Meanwhile, even the X-15 rocket, which actually reached the edge of space, also developed hypersonic speeds in the atmosphere. X-43 and X-51 are strictly atmospheric (the height of the second flight is slightly more than 20 km) for the simple reason that the scramjet does not work in a vacuum. Maneuvering at hypersonic speeds was practiced on very old rockets with solid-propellant rocket engines, and in 2007, the Swedish SaabBofors very clearly showed the possibility of complex maneuvering at M = 5,5 even at low altitudes. Finally, X-51 demonstrated stable scramjet operation for 2,5 minutes on hydrocarbon fuels, which is multiple times more complicated than on hydrogen.

In other words, propaganda shouts in the spirit of "what the Americans are doing now - our past" mask a very unpleasant situation for us.
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62 comments
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  1. heretic
    +4
    3 January 2013 13: 04
    It is necessary to revive the "Spiral", and then you see, and related industries will catch up.
    1. +2
      3 January 2013 14: 28
      It seems to me that something is being done in this direction, Putin doesn’t throw a word ...
      1. S_mirnov
        -7
        3 January 2013 15: 27
        "Putin does not throw words ..." you have a strange humor ...
        http://fin-i.com/obzory/s-uklonom-v-politiku/nevypolnennye-obeschaniya-prezident
        a
        http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4418/130283026.8b/0_683df_f2bbb0ce_XL
        http://demotivation.me/lkc8d0wm040npic.html
        http://demotiva.ru/a/tag/1249
        1. +3
          4 January 2013 00: 26
          ShturmKGB
          It seems to me that something is being done in this direction, Putin doesn’t throw a word ...


          Hope dies last, but I agree !!! We traditionally, no one expected - and "it" took, and it worked out))) They also laughed at the "Bulava", but it still flew.

          +
      2. Kaa
        +3
        3 January 2013 16: 48
        ShturmKGB
        Putin doesn’t throw words

        So Putin ... 5 years ago they wrote quite optimistically:
        "work on hypersonic systems is being carried out in the United States on a grand scale and on a wide front, covering all areas of combat use and key technologies of hypersonic flight. And what about other states? All developed countries are interested in hypersonic one way or another. However, not all of them they have sufficient scientific, industrial and financial potential to become familiar with high hypersonic technologies.
        Of all the states of the world, so far only Russia has the necessary scientific and technical groundwork, which makes it possible to compete with the USA. Suffice it to say that it was in Russia that the first flight experiment was performed with a hydrogen-powered scramjet: this happened in 1998 when testing a demonstration model of a scramjet scramjet “Cold” on an S-200 anti-aircraft missile in Sary-Shagan. And experimental work on the scramjet on hydrocarbon fuel was carried out in the USSR in the mid-1980s. At the last international aerospace salons of MAKS, Russia demonstrated several interesting hypersonic devices - “flying laboratories”: “Igla”, GLL-31, GLL-AP. Some of them work on kerosene, which clearly indicates the military purpose of the research.
        By the way, over the past three years, Russia's top military-political leadership has repeatedly announced that it will soon adopt hypersonic warheads for strategic missiles. What kind of weapon is still a mystery. Perhaps we are talking about maneuvering warheads, which are similar to the CAV hypersonic glider of the FALCON system. Or maybe about hypersonic unmanned aircraft powered by hypersonic engines. In any case, it is clear that work on hypersonic weapons in Russia is still underway. "Http://www.vokrugsveta.ru/vs/article/6224/
        5 years have passed, Putin is president again ...
        1. postman
          +3
          4 January 2013 03: 33
          Quote: Kaa
          Of all the states of the world, so far only Russia has the necessary scientific and technical groundwork, which makes it possible to compete with the USA

          What are you saying?
          Britain (Hotol and Skylon projects with SABER, Rolls Royce and MBDA UK
          Germany Diehl
          France LEA (Onera, Dassault and MBDA)

          Japan has been "tinkering" for 20 years with an integrated project of the Rolls Royce and General Electric engine for the Orient Express
          India (DRDO and Bramos)
          Brazil: rocket 14-X (6M)
          Australia (HyShot Project - University Leads)

          ================
          Quote: Kaa
          In any case, it is clear that work on hypersonic weapons in Russia is still underway.

          It is not clear how they are conducted without funding and without any tests (layouts for exhibitions are not counted)
          1. Kaa
            0
            4 January 2013 04: 15
            Quote: Postman
            Australia (HyShot Project - University Leads)

            Well, this is a suborbital flight scheme with a ramjet engine starting at the re-entry stage, the level of the 50s. University, you say? Firm "Horns and Hooves" with zits-chairman Pound:
            "Sponsorship for the HyShot Flight Program has been obtained from, The University of Queensland, Astrotech Space Operations, Defense Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA, UK), National Aeronautics and Space Agency (NASA, USA), Defense, Science and Technology Organization ( DSTO, Australia), Dept. of Defense (Australia), Dept. of Industry Science and Resources (Australia), The German Aerospace Center (DLR, Germany), Seoul, National University (Korea), The Australian Research Council, Australian Space Research Institute (ASRI), Alesi Technologies (Australia), National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL, Japan), NQEA (Australia), Australian Research and Development Unit (ARDU, Australia), the Air Force Office of Scientific Research (AFOSR, USA) and Luxfer , Australia. " http://www.uq.edu.au/hypersonics/index.html?page=19501 Centre for Hypersonics - HyShot Scramjet Test Programme
            Only sponsors are impressive ...
            "The partial orbital bombing system (in Western sources it was called the Fractional Orbital Bombardment System, or FOBS for short) was developed at the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau (Chief Designer - MK Yangel) in the mid-60s. The main purpose of the system is to apply missile strike on the territory of the United States from the least expected direction.It replaced the global rocket GR (8K713), developed at OKB-1 (Chief Designer - S.P. Korolev) .It was the warhead of an intercontinental ballistic missile R-36 (along the western classification SS-9) with a mass of about 5 tons, which was put into orbit by the satellite and, having completed an incomplete orbithit the target on the surface of the earth. After completion of the tests, at the end of 1967 the system was adopted and put into limited operation. In the Baikonur region, 18 mine-based R-36 missiles equipped with the head part of a partial orbital bombardment system.Cosmos 160, 169-171, Cosmos-178,179,183,187,218, 244,298,316,354,365,433. The system remained in service and was eliminated only in 1979 in accordance with the Soviet-American Treaty on the Limitation of Strategic Arms (SALT-2), which, among other things, prohibited the parties from having just such missiles. "
            New - well (or intentionally) forgotten the old ...
            1. postman
              +1
              4 January 2013 19: 01
              Quote: Kaa
              50s level

              do not write nonsense. if there is an opportunity on the ground, in the pipe to get the speed corresponding to the flag, so far no one has succeeded.
              Look at the program, what work out, with what and on what.
              Quote: Kaa
              Firm "Horns and Hooves" with zits-chairman Pound:

              Yes you? not confused with anything domestic?



              These are not cardboard models to carry to exhibitions.
              If you are already running on the link, then at least read it.

              Quote: Kaa
              Only sponsors are impressive ...

              A good "one-day company" from 1909 year of birth (neither Nas, nor Darp, nor "sponsors" in the conception of sales were not). Only 79 younger than my MVTU ...
              Solid Top 200 (130-150) in the world and No. 3 in the country
              Quote: Kaa
              "Partial-orbital system
              everything that you describe, from someone else's publication - I saw with my own eyes, and read more serious documentation. It’s a little bit different from journalism. All the little things.
              Quote: Kaa
              New - well (or intentionally) forgotten the old ...


              give an example, well, the Dwarf, at least
      3. -1
        3 January 2013 23: 41
        ShturmKGB
        Putin doesn’t throw a word ...


        He has only been engaged in this for the last 20 years ... Here is a post from S_mirnov with interesting links ... So they are minus something, although everything in the links is true, and only a small part. Not a single high-profile election promise of Edrosov, led by Putin, is being fulfilled, and you can’t argue with that, no matter how minus one. Party of thieves and pi ... dobs.
        1. SSR
          +3
          4 January 2013 00: 04
          Quote: vadimN
          He has only been doing this for the past 20 years ...

          umm In his speech since 1993 follow? I'm talking about GDP.
          1. Kapitanyuk
            +2
            5 January 2013 11: 19
            So Putin, he is, like him, the embodiment of Satan, according to the version of our hostile flea market - no wonder that he also commands the space-time continuum.
        2. +4
          4 January 2013 00: 33
          Here is a post from S_mirnov with interesting links ...


          Something I didn’t see there interesting links, some dumb demotivators ... request
    2. +6
      3 January 2013 16: 05
      Spiral is a reusable spacecraft. It has nothing to do with hypersound. We had "Cold", it was shown to Rogozin, from which he got excited and gave the mentioned interview.
      I already wrote here that now there is no engine for hypersound. It seems that some nozzle is projecting, some materials (and the materials are needed well, very serious), but how to light kerosene in the stream is a question.
      Now the only "hypersound" is Bramos, aka Onyx. but there the engine is the maximum that can give - about 5 swings. In principle, not bad, but this is the limit. So for hypersound we will have to work long and hard.
      Although .... the nozzle was designed ... wink
      1. Kaa
        +5
        3 January 2013 17: 06
        Quote: Botanologist
        It has nothing to do with hypersound.

        "A lot of work on the topics" Rocket and Spaceplanes "was carried out in the early 1960s at the United Design Bureau 52 (now FSUE NPO Mashinostroyenia), founded and headed at that time by the outstanding Soviet designer VN Chelomey. of the draft design, stored in the OKB-52 archive, the following definition is given: “A rocket plane is a reusable spacecraft capable of flying in outer space, capable to achieve orbital I and II cosmic flight speeds, using both gas-dynamic and aerodynamic forces to control the flight path and capable of performing significant maneuvers in space and atmosphere and landing at a given point on the earth’s surface. " The designed rocket-planes were divided into two functional groups: military and research. The group of military rocket planes was divided into high-orbit and low-orbit devices. High-orbit rocket-planes were supposed to operate in orbits with altitudes of 150-5000 km and be used to intercept, identify and destroy space targets (satellites and military stations), destroy strategic land and sea targets, conduct operational and strategic reconnaissance from outer space, and organize an early warning system ABM countries about the launch of enemy ballistic missiles.
        It was supposed to use low-orbit rocket planes at altitudes of 50–80 km, where at hypersonic flight speeds it is still possible to effectively use aerodynamic forces to control the flight path. As conceived by the designers, the high speed and the ability to widely maneuver in orbits gave the low-orbit rocket plane the advantage of being less vulnerable to enemy missile defense. Such devices were intended for use as bombers and reconnaissance aircraft, as well as as a special vehicle. "
        Popular Mechanics
        September 2008
        Oleg Makarov
        1. +6
          3 January 2013 18: 03
          Kaa,

          Anyone can see an orbital plane of the Spiral program in metal today at the Air Force Museum in Monino, Moscow Region.
          1. +5
            3 January 2013 18: 07
            Hypersonic accelerator aircraft (GSR) "50-50". ("Tailless")

            On the GSR, liquefied hydrogen was used as a fuel, the propulsion system - in the form of a block of four turbojet engines (TRD) developed by A.M. Lyulka during takeoff of 17,5 t each, having a common air intake and working for a single supersonic external expansion nozzle. With an empty mass of 36 t, GSR could take on board 16 t of liquid hydrogen (213 m X NUMX), for which 3 m X NUMX internal volume was allocated
            The engine received the AL-51 index (at the same time, the third-generation AL-165F TRDF was developed at OKB-21, and the index was chosen for the new engine "with a reserve", starting with the round number "50", especially as topic index). The technical assignment for its creation was received by OKB-165 A.M. Lyulka (now - NTC named after A.M. Lyulka as part of NPO Saturn).
            Overcoming the thermal barrier for GSR was provided by the appropriate selection of structural and heat-shielding materials.
            1. Kaa
              +3
              3 January 2013 18: 40
              Quote: Ascetic
              Hypersonic Accelerator

              They wrote (25 years ago) that the entot mastodon had to lift and accelerate "hypersounds" to start a ramjet engine ...
          2. Kaa
            +3
            3 January 2013 18: 36
            Quote: Ascetic
            orbital plane

            And after all he flew ... and splashed down (Bor - 4)
        2. +3
          3 January 2013 21: 08
          A lot of work on the topics "Rocket Launchers" and "Cosmos Planes" was carried out at the beginning of the 1960's at the Joint Design Bureau 52

          What was, what was. Just do not forget that there are three "old men" left of the Chelomeev designers on the subject of the State PRVD, and they are now out of business. It seems that one is working, and it is not clear what.
          Besides, "Spiral" is a spaceship. It was thrown into space by the carrier, and the height of its application is from 50 kilometers.

          And if you remember, then Rogozin talked about the plane, as well as about missiles. So, we have a backlog of hypersound, of course, there is, but talking about an airplane today is complete nonsense. Neither Cold nor Spiral provide usable technologies. And if you need a rocket, you shouldn't finish finishing Onyx (Brahmos), but it's time to do something low-atmospheric on kerosene. But with this we are not great.
          Unfortunately, I drank the dough not all cleaned out of the MO and KB. They will take on hypersound and will cut the budget on the basis of "Cold". While the specialists are in such mood. sad
          1. Kaa
            +2
            4 January 2013 03: 47
            [QuoteIt was supposed to use low-orbit rocket planes at altitudes of 50–80 km, where at hypersonic flight speeds it is still possible to effectively use aerodynamic forces to control the flight path... As conceived by the designers, the high speed and the ability to widely maneuver in orbits gave the low-orbit rocket plane the advantage of being less vulnerable to enemy missile defense. Such devices were intended for use as bombers and reconnaissance aircraft, as well as as a special vehicle. "
            Popular Mechanics
            September 2008
            Oleg Makarov
  • 0
    4 January 2013 11: 13
    On kerosene it is not possible to reach speeds higher than five max, and there you also need power, since the weight of the displayed cargo will increase, and it is economically more profitable ....
    The economy must be considered, otherwise it will turn out like that of amers to bring out 20 tons - 80 were put into orbit (the weight of the shuttle with the show-offs))
    I think that all the same, the future is not in rocket technology, they almost reached the maximum values ​​for thrust and design limits for vibration and destruction of nozzle materials (so there’s a dead end)) ....
    1. postman
      0
      4 January 2013 23: 09
      Quote: Asgard
      On kerosene do not reach speeds above five max.

      On "kerosene" they reach the 3rd space, and nothing, let alone some 5M ...
      Quote: Asgard
      to bring out 20 tons - 80 were put into orbit (the weight of the shuttle with show-offs))

      however, just these "show-offs" (cruising engines) and returned, along with the sheer nonsense 6, the glider, landing gear, wings, onboard equipment, and moved the orbital maneuvering.
      And then again, and more, and more.
      And what's left (J-2) on Ares, and on others. They lie in the warehouse, and all these "show-offs" are bu.
      (in America, the same cars were once large and ate 30l / 100km)
      Quote: Asgard
      I think that all the same, the future is not in rocket technology,

      There are options for the withdrawal of DOE payloads other than chemical rocket engines?
  • DeerIvanovich
    0
    6 January 2013 18: 48
    Kurchatov Institute is working on a fundamentally new engine based on the explosive nature of the combustion of hydrogen in an oxidizer using plasma. promised speed of at least 10-12 max.
    1. postman
      0
      6 January 2013 20: 18
      Quote: DeerIvanovich
      based on the explosive nature of hydrogen combustion

      detonation burning. And not only hydrogen.
  • +10
    3 January 2013 19: 16
    It is very difficult ! I mean to tighten up the industry. Our plant, where I work, in Soviet times produced some things for the defense industry. Then came perestroika, the plant began to decay, then "effective managers" appeared and began to "effectively" manage. If before them machines and other equipment were sold that were not involved in the technological process, then with their arrival everything began to be sold under the guise of improving the production process and reducing the cost of maintaining a machine park and equipment. It got to the point of ridiculousness, a turner was working, these same managers approached him, ordered to stop the work, immediately a team of locksmiths took off, loaded onto a car, and even with an unworked part. As a result of the activity of "effective managers", 15457 remained from the plant with the number of 1800 people, and they say that is not the limit. Okay, if only we had it. but our drivers go on business trips to adjacent factories and everywhere the same gimp! Or the plant is completely bankrupt, the workshops are demolished and shopping centers are built, or they are sold in parts. And from factories that produce unique equipment (some types are the only ones in the world), we get workshops for the manufacture of you cannot understand what and why, but which is well sold on the market. It's very difficult to get things right again. We need deprivatization in order to drive out all these "effective managers" with a filthy broom, and for the state to take under its wing factories that can produce equipment necessary for the country.
    1. S_mirnov
      -1
      3 January 2013 19: 45
      Thank you for your comment. And then, reading the reviews of most of the participants, doubt creeps in - Do we live in the same country? It all hurts like a rainbow. Know the best for success.
      http://news.rambler.ru/17049909/
      and listen to less agents of the State Department:
      http://news.rambler.ru/17048590/
      and everything will be in chocolate, sit and do not interfere with the construction of "Great" Russia!
    2. +2
      3 January 2013 23: 57
      in the state of "effective managers" you cannot expel them, they will simply change and after that nothing will change
    3. SSR
      +4
      4 January 2013 00: 19
      Quote: starshina78
      15457 remains from the plant with the number of 1800 people, and they say no limit

      Literally before NG I was talking to an old-school specialist ... (a short excerpt from the conversation)
      he says: in our enterprise, besides the release of the final (defense and vigorous) products, there were also dozens of other workshops .. and when the city became open .. foreigners became sick .. with words like? Do you have a forge here? and do the boards here?
      And he says: when he visited with the delegation ... and began to ask questions and where do you make these or those elements ... he was answered "we only collect" one is engaged in boards .. other programs .... and so on .... ...
      (the conversation was within the framework of our enterprise and the person just shared his memories)
      The collapse as I did not support it, I do not support it .. but there were a lot of "understudies" as I understood. IMHA.
  • lotus04
    +1
    4 January 2013 09: 25
    Quote: eretik
    It is necessary to revive the "Spiral", and then you see, and related industries will catch up.


    Yes! Only a little remains! To nurture, educate, grow, educate and rebuild all these RELATED INDUSTRIES. Go for it! Yes, all your plans will come true! P - do not toss the bags!
  • InkGrey
    +5
    3 January 2013 13: 05
    With the last paragraph, I think few will argue. However, I want to believe that work is underway, or will be activated again in the near future.
    However, if we are talking about things that are for the most part classified, then maybe not everything is as bad as many people like to say.
  • +14
    3 January 2013 13: 15
    The article, a mixture of the truth and the author’s conjectures, is based entirely on open,not scientificpublications, all sources = unknown, in short, more like a review of the yellow press than a serious analysis.
    Someone, somewhere, something taleл
    1. +10
      3 January 2013 13: 27
      Quote: Old Rocketman
      Someone, somewhere, something said
      It’s hard to disagree with you, but this is precisely what inspires certain optimism, I had the opinion that the work is being carried out, but the fact that there is no reliable information about them is rather good than bad ... If there weren’t any success, then there would be nothing to secret ... So, in my opinion, there is a chance, there is hope ...
    2. +15
      3 January 2013 15: 44
      old rocketman,

      All works on hypersound and also planning BB for ICBMs are strictly classified .. and so much so that all the less or less real references to this topic have been greatly cleared. What he was convinced of as many were in bookmarks. and now they’re not responding.
      What really can be said, relying on open sources for the development of hypersonic aircraft in Russia, are developing in the following areas:
      1.Maneuvering warheads for land and sea-based intercontinental ballistic missiles.
      Such blocks, having a greater weight and dimensions than conventional ones, are capable of performing maneuvers in the atmosphere.
      2.Anti-ship missile system "Zircon""developed by NPOmash, with a hypersonic missile.
      this project is being developed on the basis of the existing supersonic anti-ship missile "Onyx" / "Yakhont" in the future and "Bramos" with Indians in hypersons. option
      3.Aircraft-based missile system,
      with a rocket whose speed should exceed the speed of sound by 12-13 times, developed by KTRV.

      It was for the unification of these projects and other unnamed projects that, as is known in September last year, at a retreat of the military-industrial commission in Tula, Dmitry Rogozin announced plans to create holding company responsible for the development of hypersonic technologies the holding will unite the main Russian developers of this type of weapon: the Tactical Missile Armament Corporation (KTRV) and NPO Mashinostroyenia (NPOmash) .. By the way, NPO Mash has long developed a planning BB "birdie" which is currently in service. the atmosphere at a certain angle and what speeds it reaches at the same time remains a secret)
      1. +5
        3 January 2013 21: 29
        1. Maneuvering warheads for intercontinental ballistic missiles

        This is not a hypersonic topic. Of course, you can disperse the blank to serious speeds, and it will be maneuvering with solid fuel, but this is not the topic. No engine, no glider, no data exchange.

        2. Anti-ship missile system "Zircon" developed by NPOmash, with a hypersonic missile.

        5 max is the limit. I wrote above about Onyx. The engine is good there, but not the scramjet. It’s like forcing a Cossack to 300 km / h. One trip may be enough.

        3.Aircraft-based missile system,
        Again the question is engines. A missile up to 10 - 15 can be accelerated with solid fuel, it can also be liquid, but the issue of payload and dimensions is acute. Launching an ICBM is justified by a nuclear charge, and which warhead do you put on an aircraft missile without a ram engine? And what kind of monster will it be?

        The second question is guidance. At these speeds, the device flies in the plasma stream, and the signals do not pass. This is not essential for a rocket, it is possible to adapt an inertial or some other system, but how will you control it on a moving target? For example, an aircraft carrier or an airplane? That's right, nothing. Therefore, before resolving issues of data exchange, hypersound should be used very carefully and extremely limited.
        The third question is range. The hypersonic projectile must be dispersed before turning on the engine to 5 - 6 max. Therefore, the near line of application is very far from the carrier. Therefore, it makes no sense to carry missiles for air combat or use according to the situation. Only known distant targets. Fixed at the same time.

        Conclusion: the technology you listed is not exactly what is meant by hypersound.
        1. postman
          +2
          4 January 2013 04: 27
          Quote: Botanologist
          This is not a hypersonic topic. Of course, you can disperse the blank to serious speeds, and it will be maneuvering with solid fuel, but this is not the topic. No engine, no glider, no data exchange.

          Yes, this is hypersound. All medium warheads from the medium range pass the upper atmosphere (and some to targets) at rs speeds (up to 5,7 km / s).
          And maneuvering due to aerodynamic correlation. With such a supply of Ep, passing into the Ek engine is not needed.
          Quote: Botanologist
          5 max is the limit.

          10M, thermal resistance of materials (approx. 6000K) at heights of up to 20km.

          Quote: Botanologist
          One trip may be enough.

          HyShot project is already 5th or 8th, enough without scramjet
          Quote: Botanologist
          it is possible on liquid, but the question of payload and dimensions is acute.

          this is the beauty of an air launch: already at altitude and already has speed

          Quote: Botanologist
          And what kind of monster will it be?

          not very big:

          or LEA launches with the Tu-22
          or 14-X (2m x 0,8m)

          Quote: Botanologist
          At these speeds, the device flies in the plasma stream, and the signals do not pass.

          this "radio opacity" of plasma was given to all:
          -Pull the pin with the antenna out of the bottom area, outside the cocoon, "telemetry" to your health
          -light modulation
          -modulation by an em field of a plasma (plasma is electrically conductive, unlike gas)
          - etc
          Quote: Botanologist
          Therefore, it makes no sense to carry missiles for air combat or use according to the situation. Only known distant targets. Fixed while

          all these statements contradict the concepts of AHW, PGS, NAI, and even the interest in the scramjet
      2. +3
        3 January 2013 22: 00
        Quote: Ascetic
        All works on hypersound and also planning BB for ICBMs are strictly classified .. and so much so that all the less or less real references to this topic have been greatly cleared.

        If my memory serves me right, then during the Yeltsin era, the Chubais surrendered everything they could and the Yak-141, and the engines for the ICBM and wiretapping at the US Embassy, ​​I'm not talking about the "Well done" and the S-300, so maybe for someone this is secret, sadly
    3. Kaa
      +1
      3 January 2013 17: 39
      Quote: Old Rocketman
      , all sources = not known

      And I remember how the Wehrmacht was surprised by the T-34 and both KV probably thought that Krebs, the then pre-war attache, was also
      Quote: Old Rocketman
      Someone, somewhere, something said

      And they would have believed in 1941, maybe the same Krebs would not have had to deal with capitulation in 1945. "Where milk does not turn sour - that's right, a cow's udder" bully
      1. +2
        3 January 2013 19: 18
        These works are highly classified by the media, and on the Internet we will not see anything other than idle talk. In the meantime, on this topic, only disinformation and idle talk. hi And yet, until the issue with the plasma is resolved, special shifts should not be expected. Although than ... not joking.
        1. postman
          +1
          4 January 2013 03: 48
          Quote: alexneg
          until the issue with plasma is resolved, special shifts should not be expected.

          And what survey with plasma is not solved ???
    4. S_mirnov
      -5
      3 January 2013 18: 45
      "It looks like a yellow press review than a serious analysis" - This is because a serious analysis of our scientific and technical capabilities plunges into despondency, and the article should cause optimism and joy!
      1. +3
        3 January 2013 21: 36
        a serious analysis of our scientific and technical capabilities is depressing,

        Maybe share a serious analysis? And then I, apart from whining from your reasoning, have not yet seen anything.
        1. S_mirnov
          0
          4 January 2013 10: 26
          Read books by Parshev "Why Russia is not America", books by Y. Mukhin, S. Kara-Murza.
          If books are difficult for you, read a more popular article:
          http://svoim.info/201252/?52_1_4
  • Nechai
    +6
    3 January 2013 13: 35
    Quote: Old Rocketman
    Someone, somewhere, something said

    "Eustace-Alex, according to the source ..." Not only a review of the yellow press, but an attempt to get a closed information in an open way. "Chatterbox is a godsend for a spy!"
    I do not think that reckless, simple-tempered times of the 90s-00s go on. And then the middle and lower link is all, up to outright sabotage, so that there is no strategic information leak.
    I liked it - "maneuvering in the air at hypersonic speeds at the current level of technology is impossible" - the main thing is that the tailors are absolutely sure of this!
    1. +1
      3 January 2013 16: 08
      - "in the air, maneuvering at hypersonic speeds at the current level of technology development is impossible"
      Imagine there are no materials that can withstand temperatures and loads with atmospheric hypersound. They are looking, but this is not a quick process.
    2. +2
      3 January 2013 16: 17
      In the atmosphere - by no means. Only under water!
  • -4
    3 January 2013 13: 39
    It is clear that the Russian military again doesn’t itch until the roasted rooster pecks. They also did not scratch UAVs, pecked at them, ran in, only nobody wanted to sell their achievements to the Russians. Now they are frantically trying to catch up. And what is stopping you from doing hypersound now? Lack of attendants? But do they save on safety? If Swedish SaabBofors very clearly demonstrated the possibility of complex maneuvering at a speed of M = 5,5 even at low altitudes. - then this is a dangerous situation, because Russia does not have any such air-defense systems that would surely reduce maneuvering hypersonic missiles, nor strike such missiles themselves in response. But will it be too late when the military catch up?
    1. postman
      0
      5 January 2013 01: 52
      Quote: aksakal
      Lack of attendants?

      and "attendants" and bases.
      hypersound cannot be inflated in the "pipe"
      Protons and Unions are busy. The pH of the rest is already lacking (extension of the warranty period).
      Quote: aksakal
      for Russia does not have any such air-defense systems that would surely

      in words there is everything ... but in words
  • boris.radevitch
    0
    3 January 2013 13: 52
    Let the Americans think that we do not have hypersound, but we have! tongue
    1. 0
      4 January 2013 12: 41
      the brainless haters wavered ...
  • Marmot
    +2
    3 January 2013 14: 30
    Quote: Old Rocketman
    The article, which is a mixture of the author’s truth and speculation, is based entirely on open, non-scientific publications, all sources = are not known, in short, it looks more like a review of the yellow press than a serious analysis.

    For the disclosure of sealed sources and you can sit wink everyone uses sources from the network
  • +1
    3 January 2013 14: 50
    I was traveling on a train with "grandfather", academician, scientist. says there are plenty of developments, talented people in our country, to fight them, AF made a whole commission on false science headed by Alferov.
    You say -You’m a young man, think about it, created an entire commission at the Academy with what should not be in nature ....
    They slow down development, steal ideas (through the patent system)), you say, look, the Jews become the inventors of "ONE" invention and create more, at least something like that is not able, for a simple reason - it is difficult to steal "brains" the second time.

    Change the power, "Skolkovo" will be bombed, the RAS (leadership)) will be sorted out and A COUNTRY will receive innovative developments ....
    Of the latest-revolutionary-the Bogomolov Accelerator (the unit is mounted in the cabin of the MRIYA aircraft and when a certain area is irradiated, you can see Nuclear Reactors and materials and it is possible to make them share at a distance (fast-fast)), which means American aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines will have to stand in places of basing........ according to Maser, the Americans are developing a dead end branch-Lasers, they have quickly tested the Chemical Laser on the basis of our developments, transmitted by Putin to the USA.
  • zen1963
    -7
    3 January 2013 15: 04
    I think that the Americans have already gone far from us in the field of missiles. We simply do not know and, as always, we shout that we are the best. And when they started hitting us with Stingers in Afghanistan, we were shocked. They just do they do not advertise their business, just like the Moon
    1. +1
      4 January 2013 08: 41
      Bugagagaga! Very far gone. AT ж the ass.
      "Russia will supply about 30 rocket engines to the USA within five years"
      According to previous agreements, ... 63 engines have already been delivered to the USA, of which 40 have already been used at startups.
      And here's how to hook up and eat noodles with a hamster, hereooo .... Here they are masters!

      http://warfiles.ru/show-20788-rossiya-postavit-v-ssha-okolo-30-raketnyh-dvigatel
      ey-v-techenie-pyati-let.html
  • webdog
    +5
    3 January 2013 16: 48
    in hypersound, Russia really lags behind ... but only in the field of missiles in their usual sense.
    hypersonic ballistic missile warhead maneuvering is ahead of the rest of our planet))
    ramjet engine has not yet been created in any country.
    it’s like with TOKAMAK (who is vkurse), it seems that it is about to earn money and has already been 50 years old)))
    I think so.
    1. +4
      3 January 2013 18: 00
      Quote: webdog
      hypersonic ballistic missile warhead maneuvering is ahead of the rest of our planet))


      Back in 1991 The NGO Mash was developing one for the Yuzhmashevskaya heavy rocket that never went into production and the project was naturally closed. Then, under EBNe, funding for almost all KBs dealing with this topic was stopped, and there were about a dozen of them, however, this topic has already been repeatedly mentioned here. Now we select what is preserved and try to revive
  • +3
    3 January 2013 17: 17
    zen1963,
    actually a rocket developed by the famous German designer Von Braun flew to the moon
    at the expense of air defense systems then amers we were first shocked when their crashed U2
    from unreachable heights
    so what the hell knows what will happen next smile
    1. +1
      3 January 2013 18: 35
      In fact, von Braun was kicked out of the lunar project. And they flew there not on his engine, but on some other. That engine had a strange property - no one remembers anything about it! It wasn’t used anymore, there weren’t any drawings ... like they did it very quickly, so quickly that drawings and other documentation weren’t preserved, subcontractors made separate systems and didn’t hand over the drawings ...
      So I see - a clatter of hooves is heard over Cape Canaveral. You-smoke-you-smoke ... this jumps a Texas subcontractor! He bursts into the cosmodrome, jumps to a rocket and jumps, right from the saddle, sticks a nozzle into place! Then it hangs down to concrete, picks up a bunch of dough from it and is carried away on the prairie ...
      1. 0
        3 January 2013 20: 41
        I’ll wear a foil hat - here it is the most terrible of secrets -
        1. +6
          3 January 2013 22: 24
          Yes Yes! It was this engine, the most powerful in the world before the creation of the Energia rocket, that launched huge American satellites and stations into space! How is it not ?! And the satellites were tiny and the stations were poor? It was for its creation that the author, von Braun, was awarded differently! How was that kicked out under the ass with a knee ?! It was this engine that served as a prototype for others, more advanced, as happens with all successful (or even unsuccessful, but containing some ideas) technology! What, in general, there were no more similar ?! And so on and so forth ... pulled the foil hat back over the bald patch ...
          1. +1
            4 January 2013 00: 51
            I love the theory of conspiracy - Saturn - 5 wasn’t - it was a make-up Saturn-1, the landing on the moon was filmed in the pavilion, traces of colored cement, Kennedy killed the ZOG, but there’s not enough foil here. laughing
          2. webdog
            +2
            4 January 2013 03: 05
            Michael3, F-1 a miracle of bourgeois technology ...
            we only reached him in the 80s ...
            All the same, von Braun was a genius. it is a pity that they did not have time to capture him in Germany, if only the amers still sat without carriers and satellites)))
            1. 0
              4 January 2013 13: 19
              no, they won’t believe it — it’s easier to prove on a piece of paper why he couldn’t fly than to watch the chronicle.
  • +2
    3 January 2013 17: 32
    All over the world, active work is underway on electric vehicles. They, in fact, were the first, before the internal combustion engine. So why don't we ride them? Well, how to say ... probably because the maximum k-t, which reflects the ratio of the mass of the most advanced storage battery to the power it gives out, is known to us. And it completely excludes the industrial use of electric vehicles. Therefore, all "active work on electric vehicles" is the essence of theft and banal razvodilovo. To drive them, you DO NOT need to develop and build electric vehicles! We need the next generation of batteries, a fundamentally new one, of which there is no trace yet. That's when the work on batteries will be crowned with success - then electric cars will be assembled in every garage.
    Hypersonic vehicles are not being built because a fundamentally new class of materials is needed, or a fundamentally new approach to the environment of motion, such as the one applied to the "squall" torpedoes. But the second way is almost unpromising, because the air does not offer too much resistance compared to vibration loads. Well, we will fly in plasma, so what? The engine itself will shake the rocket to destruction, which we see from the amers. A straight-through engine - it couldn't be easier. Creating it is just nonsense. But to make sure that he does not smash the rocket to smithereens, in half!
    I think that there are such warheads, it would be strange if they did not exist. But the running time of their engines should be limited to seconds and no maneuvers!
    If purses are scratched by a potential adversary, let them develop missiles. And smart people should work on fundamentally new materials ...
    1. +4
      3 January 2013 17: 54
      There are French electric cars in museums - trucks made in 1913, they drive quite nothing. It’s not a problem to build it - who will buy gas then? - that is the question of questions.
  • +4
    3 January 2013 17: 33
    We, already somehow got used to the "corrupt" period of development at the end of the century, give us the heading - "I want to know everything .... about all the secrets"! The truth is known to those who are entitled to it, and all attempts to disturb the sleeping hive are just speculation and a way to extract information.
    1. nickname 1 and 2
      0
      3 January 2013 20: 11
      VadimSt,

      RIGHT! here everyone and everything is sitting and thinking = get-together! A - Views: 7899 - and this is just the beginning! But "we" do not care about this!
      Wait = all the problems once we rule and secrets? there we are not to anyone!

      And the author shows: GOSPLAN PLANNED AND NO ONE DOES! What kind of hyper do we have there? So no one even understood how prospective design works in the country.

      Waiting, sir! When an apple slaps on your head, or you’ll have a dream!

      So, sir gentlemen, science and discoveries are being made, but for now, you have to earn bread!
      1. 0
        3 January 2013 20: 31
        Quote: nick 1 and 2
        Waiting, sir! When an apple slaps over his head

        - If you wait a long time - it will certainly plop - over Iran, stealth drones are plopping.
  • 0
    3 January 2013 17: 42
    Of the latest - revolutionary - the Bogomolov Accelerator (the unit is mounted in the cabin of the MRIYA aircraft and when a certain area is irradiated, you can see Nuclear Reactors and materials and it is possible to make them share at a distance (fast-fast))
    Very fantastic !!!!!
    1. 0
      3 January 2013 19: 09
      Googly, Professor Ostretsov talks about him in "Top Secret" ...
      Look about the coral castle, in California .... (the truth is they write about the Czech, but it was Rus))
      will be interested - I will tell you a couple more interesting "moments" in the history of the World, ........... to think, and stop chewing hamburgers = It's not just that ....
  • 0
    3 January 2013 18: 03
    Quote: Old Rocketman
    The article is a mixture of the author’s truth and conjectures. It is based entirely on open, non-scientific publications, all sources = unknown, in short, more like a review of the yellow press than a serious analysis. Someone who said something


    ... tAG it is!
    They dumped everything into a heap, trying to figure it out ... laughing
    The term "hypersound", as fashionable today as "nano" ...
    I wrote here -
    Rus2012 8 December 2012 00: 35 | Global response. Russia will launch hypersonic missiles
    "Funding for the Prompt Global Strike program will be cut due to failures in the development and testing of the Kh-51A Waverider cruise missile," Well, well, misleading the enemy was successfully completed;))) At the same time, they forced him to pretty much shake the moshny. With what and congratulations!
    In fact, hypersound is possible and was realized even in the alliance: KR Meteorite, Storm, RCC all sorts ... But, only not X51 ...

    Need a lot of different hypersounds! ;)
  • stranik72
    +1
    3 January 2013 20: 16
    I know for sure that work in this direction is going on, funding is provided, several research institutes and design bureaus are involved in the areas, but the results, even intermediate ones, are not "in my competence" sorry.
  • gjkeylhf
    +1
    3 January 2013 20: 29
    you’re all so progressive and smart, it’s trembling already. Explain the foolishness - to the senior sergeant of the reserve (mp sf) - what do you discuss if the author stated - hypersound is higher than 5M, but M = 331m \ s, having looked at the wiki, I saw that almost ALL s-400 missiles are hypersonic: speed up to 2500m \ s. Not so long ago an unknown purpose HYPERSONIC missile was launched on a sary-shagan — or rather, voiced — for a pro, but a missile system was not voiced — possibly s-500, during the Caucasus 2012 exercises A new PCR was launched, Rogozin announced a speed of over 11M.
    SOMEONE - explain - either I am a fool or on a respected resource they began to spread leaflets in the style of "spitsepolymers". Actually for this question I registered myself - I am waiting for an answer, like a nightingale of summer.
    1. +1
      3 January 2013 21: 39
      The article was inattentively read:
      “For a short time (of the order of tens of seconds), many missiles with“ classical ”rocket engines reach it, but a long flight at such speeds is possible only with the use of hypersonic ramjet engines (scramjet, aka“ scrumjet ”). Their main advantage is in the absence of the need to "carry" the oxidizer, which constitutes the bulk of the rocket fuel. "
      Amers SM-3 and THAAD are also hypersonic.
      However, I just don’t understand why they created a hypersonic anti-aircraft missile (with a range of 500 km, the same SM-3), but they cannot.
    2. +2
      3 January 2013 21: 45
      I explain, reserve sergeant.
      When they talk about hypersound, they mean a "complete" set of devices, and first of all - the engine of the SCRVD. The point is that this engine allows you to take on board only kerosene, and the oxidizing agent - atmospheric oxygen. And complexes S-400 and others, although they reach hypersound, fly either on gunpowder or on a liquid oxidizer. Look at the dimensions of the rocket at a range of 400 km. And hypersound implies a very long range with small dimensions.
      So the whole question is in the engine, which is not yet available.
      1. gjkeylhf
        0
        3 January 2013 22: 09
        In the subject? And it will be? I mean earlier than theirs.
        1. 0
          4 January 2013 01: 43
          We and they have different approaches. The United States has hypersound for a global strike, that is, they are developing strategic-range missiles. Data exchange is not very necessary here, plasma does not interfere much. We have a different approach, we are just learning how to control the plasma, figures from the Moscow Region have repeatedly expressed their opinions on this topic. Therefore, something controlled will fly. And the strategic range is not a priority, when reaching 700 - 1000 km. range we will crush the missile defense guaranteed. What worries us in the first place. Therefore, there will probably be something not very large, controllable and accurate. About "earlier-later" nobody knows anything. When applied, then we'll see bully
  • +1
    3 January 2013 20: 43
    Sometimes I don’t understand the actions of the government at all ...
    1. 0
      3 January 2013 23: 26
      -? And who did I offend? In principle, nothing comes to me from these + and - and nothing is lost, but some strange person. He ran-minus and did not even substantiate. request
  • gjkeylhf
    +1
    3 January 2013 20: 55
    sorry - the Mach number is about 300m \ s - confused with the speed of sound - heaps of 48N6E3 / 48N6-2 / 48N6DM missiles fly to a rendezvous with a speed of more than 8M, American missiles of such speeds have NO - I would like to ask Mr. Szhidaev - is it really so we are in the opera, how do you see this - I wouldn’t ask, but since I personally will not even wait for the summons in case of war, I would like to assess the chances of returning to the kids tinkling with awards, and not in the form of a funeral.
  • +3
    4 January 2013 01: 15
    Quote: Botanologist
    When they talk about hypersound, they mean a "complete" set of devices, and first of all - the engine of the SCRVD. The point is that this engine allows you to take on board only kerosene, and the oxidizing agent - atmospheric oxygen. And complexes S-400 and others, although they reach hypersound, fly either on gunpowder or on a liquid oxidizer. Look at the dimensions of the rocket at a range of 400 km. And hypersound implies a very long range with small dimensions. So the whole question is in the engine, which is not yet there.


    ... the meaning of these canoes is as follows (in a primitive presentation).
    When they say scramjet - mean two things-
    -sk. inlet flow before and after the combustion chamber
    - the temperature is exactly the same - before and after.
    The result is -
    in conventional ramjet rams, combustion in the chamber occurs upon dial-up. if the aircraft is flying at supersonic sound - the flow in front of the camera is inhibited - its temperature naturally rises - fuel is injected, which ignites - then the flow accelerates, creating traction.
    If the temperature difference between the inhibited flow and combustion is close - the efficiency of such a motor is small.
    Therefore, the idea came up - to achieve combustion with a slightly inhibited flow. How are gasdynamics heated - such a stream having a speed above sound is a layer of flying air with viscosity identical to scrap ... That is mix it with fuel and set fire to a difficult task. Moreover, if there are consoles-mixers on the flow path, a jump in the boundary of supersonic with subsonic immediately sets in their shadow, where, as you know, the temperature goes off scale to the combustion area. In fact, it is unclear whether the roofing fumes burns to generate heat, the roofing fissures it dissociates by absorbing heat to separate H from O ...
    To date, NOBODY has yet experimentally shown to receive a positive impulse in such processes. That is, all scramjet engines - do not pull themselves - are dispersed by auxiliary carriers and try to prove that they received a positive thrust impulse .... smile

    There is another approach, called the Zenger project or the HOTOL project - with preliminary liquefaction of air before entering the WFD ... The British are indulging ...
    here is one of the types - http://thexhs.livejournal.com/6034.html?thread=10386


    My friends, the Jews themselves, consider it all "Jewish things" ... wink laughing
    Those. You can do it indefinitely, well, maybe someday it will turn out something (such as a tokamak, a thermonuclear fusion, or a giant European accelerator of enormous size ....) Somehow ...
    1. avreli
      +2
      4 January 2013 06: 05
      Simple and distinct about the complex - a wonderful comment.
      What are the pluses?
      Perhaps lacking toasts and drumming. wink
      But after all, how many do not say “halva”, it is the absence or the presence of practical solutions that determines everything.
      Plus for the comment.
    2. 0
      6 January 2013 20: 22
      And if the console-mixers themselves will consist of fuel?
  • zs23wesdgggg
    -1
    4 January 2013 02: 44
    It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://2qu.ru/poisksng database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...
  • boris.radevitch
    0
    4 January 2013 05: 30
    Let the Americans think that we do not have hypersound, but we have it!


    Hypersonic road! tongue

    Soon we will come up with such a world gasp! [Media = http: //% 20jexj% 20208]

    Take good Jews, you must be friends, companions Russians! drinks
  • +1
    4 January 2013 06: 29
    The talker is a find for the spy.
  • boris.radevitch
    -1
    4 January 2013 06: 52
    The woods are being cut into pieces fly, comrade Koba used to say !!! tongue
  • -1
    5 January 2013 09: 53
    All these "hypersonic" bells and whistles, most likely, will not be needed by ANYONE. A hypersonic bomber, in comparison with a conventional one, has only a meager advantage in approach time, which, in the presence of long-range air-to-ground missiles, does not matter at all! .. It is even easier to shoot down hypersonic targets than subsonic ones, since the former fly STRICTLY in a straight line, unlike from the second, which can quickly change direction.

    Avoiding supersonic speeds already in conventional small arms has definitely been decided: subsonic bullets fly SILENTLY !!!
  • Nitup
    0
    9 March 2013 01: 43
    I never trust articles that refer to some mysterious sources here and there.
  • "Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

    “Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"