Russia is an "insidious enemy" and an "occupier", and we are the most ancient: what children are taught in schools in the CIS countries

365
On the site "Voices of Russia" published an article from the "Krasnoyarsk newspaper" "Get to the truth, or Who and why rewrites history".

An analysis of 187 school textbooks published in the CIS countries showed that, with the exception of Belarus and Armenia, nationalist history is taught in schools, based on myths about autochthonousness, ancestral homeland, linguistic continuity, cultural glorification, ethnic homogeneity, sworn enemy. Images of Russia and Russians are used as the enemy. The image of the enemy is laid in the textbooks, even for the lower grades. So, schoolchildren of 4-th grade of Georgia schools study the history and geography of the country in the course "Motherland". The paragraph devoted to South Ossetia (in Georgian terminology - Shida Kartli), comes down to three key points: 1. Shida Kartli is the birthplace of a number of prominent figures of Georgian culture; 2. Ossetians have long lived "on Georgian soil in close friendship and kinship with the Georgians"; 3. In recent years, the "cunning enemy" has encroached on the friendship of Georgians and Ossetians and achieved its goal. Two kindred people with weapons in the hands opposed each other. A paragraph describing Abkhazia is similarly constructed: “The enemies did everything to sow hostility between the Georgian and Abkhaz peoples in order to ward off Abkhazia from Georgia. The“ insidious enemy ”was never named by name, but is it possible to doubt who is meant here?

The justification of the antiquity of the national history and the autochthonousness of the modern nation in school textbooks reaches anecdotal proportions. Thus, in Azerbaijani textbooks, the ancestors of Azerbaijanis are declared contemporaries of the Sumerians. "The first written testimonies about the tribes of ancient Azerbaijan are given in Sumerian epos and cuneiform records." Among the ancestors of the Kyrgyz people are consistently called the Scythians, Huns and Usuns. In Estonian textbooks, one can find allegations about the ancestors of modern Estonians and the formation of the "Estonian people" about five thousand years ago.

The Ukrainian version of the origin of the modern nation should also be recognized as fantastic. The Ukrainian textbooks set forth the scheme of M. S. Grushevsky, the key point of which is the rejection of the ancient Russian nationality and the statement about the parallel existence of two nationalities: the "Ukrainian-Russian" and the "Great Russian." According to Grushevsky, it turns out that the Kievan state is the “Russian-Ukrainian” state, and the Vladimir-Suzdal state is the “Great Russian” ethnic group. The Kiev period of the history of the "Ukrainian-Russian people" gradually passes into the Galitsko-Volynsky, then into the Lithuanian-Polish, and the Vladimir-Suzdal period of the history of the "Great Russian people" - Moscow. Thus, MS Hrushevsky is trying to prove that instead of a single Russian history there are two stories of two different nationalities: "The History of Ukraine-Russia" and "The History of Muscovy and Great Russia."

Attention to the antiquity of national history has an obvious projection on modernity. The proclamation of the ancient Azerbaijanis by the contemporaries of the Sumerians is called upon to substantiate the thesis: "Modern Armenia originated in the territory of ancient Western Azerbaijan." Maps of the history textbook of Georgia for the 5 class are designed to demonstrate that in ancient times the territory of Georgia was much larger than the current one. The "historical regions of Georgia" on the map depict the territories that are part of Azerbaijan, Russia and Turkey. How they got there, the schoolchildren know from the 4 class - they have captured the enemies.

A common feature of school textbooks of new national states is the presentation of contacts with Russians and Russia as a source of problems and troubles for their ancestors. Thus, the first historical acquaintances of Azerbaijanis with Russians are described in the textbooks as terrible disasters: "During the 914 campaign, for months the Slavic guerillas continuously plundered and destroyed the settlements on the Azerbaijani shores of the Caspian Sea. They massacred civilians and captured women and children ". The authors describe the savagery perpetrated by the Russians as if they themselves were witnesses to this.

The first contacts of Estonian ancestors with Russians are described as predatory raids. Russia as a state from antiquity to the present day is credited with aggressiveness. Thus, in Latvian publications, the very formation of a centralized state in Russia is presented as a negative factor for Latvia, since it had “aggressive aspirations”: it sought to “get access to the Baltic Sea”. A horror picture unfolds in front of the students: beginning at the end of the 15th century, the troops sent by the Moscow rulers repeatedly attacked the Livonian lands, plundering and capturing the inhabitants. Moreover, it is only casually noted that the troops of the Livonian Order "also raided Russia." The Livonian war in both Latvian and Estonian textbooks is interpreted as aggression from Russia.

The accession of certain territories to Russia, as a rule, is evaluated negatively. The benefits received by the peoples within the framework of a large state are ignored; the emphasis is on the loss of independence. The textbooks of the history of Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova and Uzbekistan assess the status of their territories within the Russian Empire as “colonial” and, accordingly, qualify Russians as “colonialists”.

Armenian authors take a more balanced approach, noting the progressive for the Armenian people of the Russian conquest of the Transcaucasus. The main content of the national history in the period of being a part of the Russian Empire is the national liberation struggle. Thus, in the Kazakh history textbook it is written: "The struggle of the Kazakh people against Russian colonialism lasted a long time, covering the second half of the XVIII century to the 90 of the twentieth century. The following are a dozen examples of the Kazakh people’s struggle for independence - uprisings, unrest movements, performances and so on.

Suppressing the uprising of Turkestan Muslims 1916 in Kyrgyzstan’s textbooks is evaluated as an attempt to exterminate the Kyrgyz people: “The measures taken to prevent the uprising by the tsarist forces resulted in a mass extermination of the Kyrgyz people. Faced with the threat of genocide, the rebels hurriedly migrated to China.” “Only the overthrow of the Russian tsar and the October revolution saved us from the complete extermination of the Kyrgyz.”

The events of 1917 and the civil war are considered textbooks, as a rule, through the same prism of the national liberation struggle. In a number of countries, the term "civil war" itself is not used at all. Modern textbooks depict the Bolsheviks either Russian, or puppets in the hands of Russian. In the Azerbaijani school, the Bolsheviks are depicted as allies of Armenians. The very establishment of Soviet power in Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Ukraine is portrayed as "aggression", "intervention", "occupation".

“Soviet Russia was not satisfied with the conquest of Georgia and the creation of an occupying government under its control,” the authors of one of the Georgian textbooks write, “now Moscow has begun implementing its perfidious plan - dividing Georgia into autonomous units. The Abkhaz and Ossetian separatists were not slow to take advantage of Russia's anti-Georgian policy.”

The textbooks of Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan are rated as “colonial” throughout the entire Soviet period of history. "Azerbaijan has become a colony of Soviet Russia, which has begun here to implement socio-economic and political measures that best meet its colonial interests." "Kazakhstan turned into a raw material base of the country, that is, it was and remained a colony." "The enterprises built over these years and Turksib only increased the volume of raw materials exported from the republic."

Textbooks of Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Ukraine, and Estonia associate the origin of World War II with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. It is evaluated as an agreement of the aggressors about the beginning of the Second World War.

... History is known to be written by the winners. We lost the Cold War in 1991 and, naturally, the winner began reformatting the story for himself. Here we have what we have, said, in particular, in the publication.
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  1. +131
    3 January 2013 12: 27
    What a horror .... Russian barbarians broke into villages, villages and camps, leaving cities, hospitals and universities behind their backs.
    1. ughhh
      +19
      3 January 2013 12: 42
      tanit,
      how many wolves do not feed ...
      1. +2
        3 January 2013 13: 41
        and the bear has more dick lol
      2. +42
        3 January 2013 14: 12
        Who else would tell us this ...
        - For the entire history of these countries, they did not rise above the rug without the Russians!
        -As in a joke: -And these people forbid us to pick our nose ...
      3. -4
        3 January 2013 16: 58
        Donkey still has more.
        1. +9
          3 January 2013 17: 03
          Nothing, they’ll run a little bit back with a tail between them ...
          1. +10
            3 January 2013 18: 25
            About the article. in Moldova it is, I am not only a witness but also an experimental subject of the teaching of this story. Fortunately, I was able to distinguish truth from lies. And succumb to propaganda.
          2. +12
            3 January 2013 18: 41
            Quote: feanor
            Nothing, they’ll run back a little bit with a tail between them ..

            Yes, they all went to the goat crack, let them run somewhere in the other direction and stand there in line for hot dogs, great, ancient and lowered by the Russians to the level of civilized peoples.
          3. +15
            4 January 2013 08: 26
            Quote: feanor
            Nothing, they’ll run back a little bit with a tail between them ..


            it’s necessary to make it easier .. for example, a delegation of Georgia (Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Tukmenia, Kyrgyzstan, etc.) comes to negotiations on any issue ... they start asking for gas, or just loans, and tell us what friends they are for us, etc. .... our Foreign Ministry immediately puts on the table their history textbook for schools and pokes it into concrete lines with a snout ... and until the textbooks are replaced - from a dead donkey's ears ...
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              7 January 2013 00: 37
              and often the Kazakhs ask Russia for gas and loans, comrade geostrategic? I suggest immediately stop selling gas to Kazakhs and Turkmens. what to wait there. immediately and instantly solve all problems :)))))))))))))))))))))))
              1. +3
                7 January 2013 12: 23
                Clarify what your state was called before ...?
                1. Marek Rozny
                  -1
                  10 January 2013 01: 21
                  Quote: Swag
                  Clarify what your state was called before ...?

                  Kazakh Khanate. Good luck in studying the history of neighbors.
              2. +2
                9 January 2013 12: 30
                Here’s how your essence was immediately offended — you have gas and a great space power — a huge cosmodrome — and only with your exceptional antiquity, Kazakhs have a slightly indirect relation to the achievements of present-day Kazakhstan and developed industrial production — they lived in yurts not far away, but then everything got to that and that’s stop .... so that is how the fighters against colonization and colonialists come on, shaving men wait for you to civilize
                1. Marek Rozny
                  0
                  10 January 2013 01: 28
                  Excuse me, but before the Bolsheviks were the Russians a literate and intelligent people without exception? How long has the Russian people stopped knitting bast shoes before the Kazakhs joke? And everything that was built in Kazakhstan was more than paid for by the Kazakhs. Let me remind you that the famine in Kazakhstan (Ukraine, the Volga region) was caused by the fact that Stalin confiscated grain and cattle in order to pay off the office of Albert Kahn, who, in fact, built both the Kazakhs and Russians the entire basis of the modern industry of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan. In the first two five-year plans, more than one hundred thousand engineers and workers from the USA and Western Europe worked on the territory of the USSR. And they also trained "ravshans and dzhamshuts" from Russian huts and Kazakh yurts. The first Soviet engineers appeared in this way. For a small cohort of pre-revolutionary Russian engineers (more often of German origin) was devoured by the Revolution practically without a trace. And what appeared in the KZ before the Bolsheviks was built mainly by the British and Germans, and not by the "Russian people".
                  1. 0
                    10 January 2013 03: 37
                    So there it was that the West didn’t lose it either — it didn’t work out to ruin the country by throwing firewood into the firebox of the civil war, so it turns out they decided to build a strong and developed communist state. Apparently so that later it would be someone to expose the concentration of world evil. A very smart move, however.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +1
                      10 January 2013 14: 59
                      Are you friends with history? The United States was in the Great Depression during the first Soviet five-year plans. African engineers eagerly rode under the roof of Albert Kahn’s office in the USSR to earn money. Remember who actually created the ZIL and DneproGES. I do not mean unqualified labor force, namely, engineers and designers who were all from cap.countries.
                      1. 0
                        11 January 2013 09: 28
                        Yes, of course there were foreign engineers, and this is a fact since the same Bolsheviks knocked out their own from the West - and before that, Russia was one of the leading countries in the world and in terms of the rate of development of production was in the leading positions, and that's why 1 was also imposed on us by the West World and Japanese war and the continuation of the revolution and civil war with the Second World War and the destruction of the USSR is the same fact of the consequences for the West to prevent the development of the country. And what is invented by the Russians, look for information and understand - but show the question, at least one invention of world significance or a discovery made by Kazakhs or other Turks, then we’ll talk about bast shoes
                      2. Marek Rozny
                        0
                        11 January 2013 11: 27
                        1) According to known data, in the period from 1929-1939, about 100 thousand Western engineers and workers worked in the USSR.
                        2) The Bolsheviks drove and shot the tsar’s engineers from the West? A Th not by order of the Martians?
                        3) Russia until 1917 was no "leading" in the industry. Russia simply could not produce Mosin rifles or Adrian's helmets even in sufficient quantities. I'm not talking about tanks, airplanes or anything else. Yes, there is technology, even the history of cement until recently in Russia they did not know how to make, until the Germans launched factories in tsarist Russia somehow. And the pace of development from scratch always looks amazing. Now in Kazakhstan the growth of car production is 150%, 250% - what does it look like, eh? And in fact, relatively speaking, they produced 5 cars a year, and now they are 12. Great automobile power. The same "great industrial power" as Russia before the revolution. Or are you confused with the fact that Russia produced flax, eggs and metal? Then yes, Russia was strong here.
                        White emigrant, monarchist and anti-communist Solonevich writes about tsarist Russia the following:
                        "The fact of the extreme economic backwardness of Russia in comparison with the rest of the cultural world is not subject to any doubt. According to the figures of 1912, the national income per capita was 720 rubles in the United States (in gold, pre-war terms), in England - 500, in Germany - 300, in Italy - 230 and in Russia - 110.
                        So the average Russian, even before the First World War, was almost 7 times poorer than the average American, and more than 2 times poorer than the average Italian. Even bread - our main wealth - was scarce. If England per capita consumed 24 poods, Germany 27 poods, and the USA - as much as 62 poods, then Russian consumption of bread was only 21 poods - including all this and fodder for livestock. At the same time, it should be borne in mind that bread occupied such a place in the food ration of Russia as nowhere else in other countries. In the rich countries of the world bread was replaced by meat and dairy products and fish "(I. Solonevich" People's Monarchy ")
                        4) About science. Our Turkestan contribution to the world scientific treasury happened much earlier. 9-12 centuries. Al-Farabi, who was called in Europe "the Second Teacher of the world after Aristotle", Al-Biruni, who proved the sphericity of the Earth and the fact that the Earth revolves around the Sun 500 years before Copernicus, and at the same time made the first globe, Al-Khwarizmi, who created modern algebra (by the way, his works were so often referred to by European scientists of the Renaissance that his name became the word "algorithm"), Ibn Sina - the greatest physician of the early Middle Ages and many other representatives of Turkestan. And even the famous Omar Hayheim, who is known to modern Russians exclusively as a drunken poet, was the mathematician who derived the mathematical unit, which Europe rediscovered much later and called the "Newton binomial".
          4. AndreyAB
            +3
            4 January 2013 16: 16
            Now in the great sovereign countries, every nationalist gopher is already an agronomist, it’s a pity that the peoples are being fooled by this stupidity, not even realizing that this is just a path to the abyss, it’s a pity. And you don’t need to resort, everyone lives where they lived, you just have to turn your face again and not ... sing, and then you should be ashamed of your nationalists.
      4. Charon
        0
        8 January 2013 17: 27
        ... and he eats and eats everything.
    2. +11
      3 January 2013 19: 30
      For sure! If not for Russia, they would still live in adobe huts, eat on the floor and ride donkeys, while singing songs about "what I see, I sing." All these history textbooks are "bullshit". The worst thing is that our sovereigns, conquering new lands, or annexing them to Russia, built, erected, laid for the money of Russia, that is, with the money of Russian taxpayers. At the same time, as a result of land reforms carried out by Khrushchev, Russia lost many square kilometers of land: Crimea - Ukraine; The northern and eastern regions, the regions adjacent to the Caspian Sea, never belonged to Kazakhstan and were annexed by Khrushchev. also, at the behest of Catherine, with the filing of Potemkin, all Little Russia was annexed to Ukraine - this is again the loss of Russia. On the other hand, who thought that there would be people who betrayed the interests of Russia and allowed to tear it apart, thereby trample all the merits of our ancestors.
    3. YARY
      +5
      3 January 2013 20: 48
      What a horror .... Russian barbarians broke into villages, villages and camps, leaving cities, hospitals and universities behind their backs.


      And who - who and taught the great need to sit sitting taught
      1. +2
        3 January 2013 23: 06
        You added the enemies of Russia with your comments. How many "foreigners" have glorified Russia? Look at the glorious names of the Heroes of Russia since ancient times.
        "What a horror ... Russian barbarians burst into auls, villages and camps, leaving behind their backs cities, hospitals, universities." And this "friends" do not remember.
      2. Marek Rozny
        +1
        7 January 2013 00: 40
        Quote: Ardent
        And who - who and taught the great need to sit sitting taught
        are you talking about your ancestors and what they standing shit? Horrible...
    4. Gur
      +4
      3 January 2013 21: 48
      Yep mother .... even ashamed, it’s kind of like not Finns, we are not Estonians to slow down so much, why did you need 17-15 years old to raise it to the rank of a bomb ??
      And not only is the history rewritten, for some reason there was a bunch of their unclaimed (or simply mediocre by the standards of the USSR) scribblers of textbooks, from mathematics to physics and chemistry, with their views on processes, and with such ingeniously arranged definitions that it’s not a bubble (without a bubble you can figure it out) crap will not help you understand what they mean by that. And the children learn something ...
      1. +1
        3 January 2013 22: 17
        What to talk about? Western pi # boliya is what brings it to. The result is visible on the video.
        http://www.odnoklassniki.ru/spasibodeduzapobedu/topic/61457479191432
      2. +6
        3 January 2013 23: 19
        Quote: GUR
        somehow it’s not Finns we

        By the way, about the Finns, there’s someone who has suffered from us ... and they were our province even before the war, so what?
        -SILENCE!
        - Well done "dates" that do not descend to the level of the pseudo humiliated! This is a kid!
        1. webdog
          +4
          4 January 2013 03: 42
          so they are genetically 99% Russian ...
          and what a real battle is with the Russians - they also know by hearsay. And this is already worth a lot)))
          1. webdog
            +6
            4 January 2013 03: 55
            I apologize for being off topic:

            On July 13, 1941, in battles near the city of Chisinau, when delivering ammunition to his company near the town of Pesets, a machine-gun company of the 389th rifle regiment of the 176th rifle division of the 9th Army of the Southern Front, the Red Army soldier D. R. Ovcharenko was surrounded by a detachment of soldiers and enemy officers of 50 people. At the same time, the enemy managed to seize his rifle.
            However, D. R. Ovcharenko was not at a loss and grabbed an ax from the wagon, chopped off the head of the officer questioning him, threw 3 grenades at the enemy soldier, destroying 21 soldiers. The rest fled in panic. Then he caught up with the second officer and also chopped off his head. The third officer managed to escape. Then he collected documents and maps from the dead and arrived with the cargo in the company.

            By a decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of November 9, 1941 “for exemplary performance of command missions on the front against the Nazi invaders and courage and heroism shown at the same time”, Red Army Ovcharenko Dmitry Romanovich was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union with the Order of Lenin and the Gold Medal Star
          2. 0
            4 January 2013 07: 14
            This is us at 99% Finno-Ugric wink , and the rest 1% of Russians and does not suspect! wassat
      3. Gur
        +2
        4 January 2013 12: 25
        And then the flag is like a gift for the next rank ??))))) not mine it is not mine ...
        1. Van
          +4
          4 January 2013 23: 37
          The friends of the commonwealth woke up late, they probably forgot to whom they owe their freedom, you see, they don’t like history, would you present your claims to our warriors ancestors or grandfather "Stalin" looking into the eyes. lol
          I think that if it were not for Russia with its willpower and sacrifice of its sons, many nationalities would have sunk into oblivion, and their history would have long been forgotten. fellow

          PS Any census of History is a crime against all of humanity. For whoever does not know his past is doomed to hard trials in the future.
          1. +2
            5 January 2013 08: 36
            Absolutely right! So the brothers of the Kazakhs were first sold by the Tatar-Mongols into slavery, then the Jungars were destroyed. Well it was a long time ago - forgotten!
            And how did the Chinese cut off men's virtues in the fifties? It seems that years have not passed much. No, the Russians are invaders.
            Russia will only hint to the Chinese that it will not interfere - in 24 hours this great state (the Republic of Kazakhstan) will not exist. And the Kazakhs will run to Russia - "Save dear brothers Russians".
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              7 January 2013 00: 59
              Sars, you are such a mega-historian in Kazakhstan, I think you will easily answer my naive questions:
              1) You know that until now all the steppe inhabitants, that the Turks, that the Mongols are divided into genera. Moreover, the names of the clans are recorded from the early Middle Ages in Chinese, Persian, Turkic, Arab sources - their leaders, their vassality, their number and location. Question: what specific "Tatar-Mongol" clan were the Kazakh sellers from? I will help you with the answer with a small hint - the "Tatar-Mongols" in Kazakhstan consisted of the clans Naiman, Kerey, Argyn, Konyrat, Kiyat, Kypshak, Usun, Barlas, Zhalayyr, Dulat and others. Although another question arises - who did these clans sell, considering that the Kazakhs consist of these clans? My Argyn subgenus is called "karauyl" - "guardsman, guard" (the Russian word "guard" is from here) because for centuries they were the personal guard of the Chingizids. Many people my ancestors herachil, but I just can't remember when it was my family that was sold into slavery by the "Tatar-Mongols".
              2) In what geographical place did the Chinese cut off men's belongings to the Kazakhs? In the territory of Kazakhstan? In China? It really became curious about this topic :)))))
              3) As for the allusions to the Chinese invasion. You will forgive me that I offend your honor as a professional historian, but could you tell us about the biggest military victories of China in the history of this glorious state? And then, as far as I remember from history, how many of my steppe ancestors wanted, so many times they smashed China to the smithereens. Outright. And recall in what year the Russian army defended the Kazakhs? And what glorious battles did she have to defend the foolish nomads? And then I can not find such battles in the glorious history of Russian weapons.
              ZY Even if we freely fantasize and imagine how the Chinese for the first time in their history defeated the Turks, did we not think that the "terrible and great" Chinese would begin to border on the Volgograd region and even the "harsh" Chelyabinsk region? :))))) Russia will scrape together the money for the arrangement of the world's longest land border? Or do you not know that the Kazakh-Russian border is such? :))))) Burn further, "historian and strategist" :)))) Compose fables about how the Chinese cut Kazakhs' pussies, about how Kazakh families sold each other into slavery, and about how Russia went crazy and preferred to have a Russian-Chinese border in the Urals, than to communicate with Kazakhs :))))))))))))
              1. 0
                9 January 2013 15: 31
                Kazakhs have already become Chingizids! Genghis Khan, wasn’t of you by any chance?
                Where did the Mamluks come from? Have you sold yourself into slavery? But the Cossacks didn’t protect you from the Dzungars with their villages? But they didn’t even take such soldiers to the imperial army (and only to the construction battalion in the Soviet army).
                1. Beck
                  +1
                  9 January 2013 16: 46
                  And why, without knowing the subject, get in a conversation, and even so categorically. Yes, it’s furious, as if they just woke up.

                  Quote: SarS
                  Where did the Mamluks come from?


                  "Mamluks are a military caste in medieval Egypt, recruited from young slaves of Turkic (Kypchak) and Caucasian (Georgians and Circassians) origin, Georgian Mamluks were called Burjis."
                  Burji is basically a border guard. And the Bay Bars, the third sultan of Egypt, the Kipchak. The Kipchaks were captured as a result of the constant wars in the Desht-i-Kipchak steppe.

                  Quote: SarS
                  But they didn’t even take such soldiers to the imperial army (and only to the construction battalion in the Soviet army).


                  Your tongue is not dry from such words, or your eyes are frozen, and your ears are blocked by chauvinism.

                  They did not take into the imperial army observing the clauses of the agreement on Kazakhstan’s annexation to Russia of 1748. The relevant paragraph stated that the steppe inhabitants refuse to carry and use weapons, and the empire undertakes to guarantee security and not to draft the steppes into the army. And more from this point Russia won.

                  And in the Red Army the steppes served not only as ordinary soldiers, but also as officers. General Rakhimov. twice GSS Bigeldinov, major, pilot attack aircraft. The lieutenant, commander of a reconnaissance platoon, Koshkarbayev was the first with Private Bulat to put up a banner on the Reichstag.

                  In the post-war period, a test pilot of fighters, the MiG design bureau, Aubakirov. The first to lift the MiG from the deck of the Soviet aircraft carrier. And many others. Yes, I myself served as a tank commander.

                  SarS. Do not disgrace the Russian people with their ignorance and thirst. You’ll be silent, they won’t call a fool, it’s better for you.
                  1. +1
                    10 January 2013 10: 50
                    Comrade Kazakhs, it’s you who invented nonsense about what you are the greatest people. All your ancestors or warriors or sages.
                    Personally, I don't care. But when you start talking nonsense how the Russians exploited you ("they taught you to drink vodka and not respect your elders"). I immediately have a desire to tell who the "golden people" really are.
                    I have lived in Kazakhstan for more than twenty years, there is much to remember.
                    1. Beck
                      +1
                      10 January 2013 12: 34
                      Quote: SarS
                      Comrade Kazakhs, it’s you who invented nonsense about what you are the greatest people. All your ancestors or warriors or sages.


                      My people are not great people. This is the Great Russian people. But some of you, clouded by greatness, do not want to know, and did not know the history of neighboring peoples. When we cite some facts from our humble history, such as you stand on their hind legs - Yes, not x-I myself? Get fucked up. Yes, it can’t be. And all just because they are accustomed to looking down on the surrounding peoples from above and scornfully. Well, no luck in history. A khan like your Tsar Peter 1 didn’t freak out in our steppe. And, now a word cannot be spoken?

                      I’ll mention your building battalion again. I drafted into the army loading tank. My bedmate, mechanic Komarov, was also a man of good faith. He buzzed all my ears that they didn’t take the Azites as gunners, mechanics, commanders, they say only Slavs. And none of my arguments acted on him, I almost got into fights. After half a year of service, I was transferred to gunners and came to the battle replenishment of mechanics, all the Kyrgyz. After another half a year, I was transferred to the tank commander and a year later I served as the tank commander.
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        10 January 2013 18: 40
                        My own uncle Mukhametkali was also a tank commander in the Soviet army in the 70s. Even a newspaper article about him survived with a photograph. And in general, none of my relatives served in the construction battalion - most of the explosives, someone KGB, one tanker, one carrier, one paratrooper, etc. It's just that Sars floods out of topic. Or personal children's complexes in front of the Kazakhs, who know their ancestors, and he - apparently, is unlikely. He also recalls an anecdote about the "gold", but it is strange that the more "gold" left, the better all the other Kazakhstanis began to live. Eeeh, if these "price gatherers" would have raised their Russia, they would not have had prices. Who in Russia and Kazakhstan do they know from the cohort of "golden people" who returned to Russia as well-known politicians, athletes, businessmen, representatives of art and science? For 20 years, not a single ex-"golden Kazakhstani" has achieved anything significant in their historical homeland. But they like to talk about a hundred thousand milens who were forced to leave Kazakhstan for Russia. Where are they? At least a couple of "golden" surnames that the whole of Russia has become proud of?
  2. toguns
    +31
    3 January 2013 12: 28
    Through Greco-Palestine
    Hiding incense in a scimitar
    Had a hajj to Ukraine
    Pope Genghis Khan.

    Carried to Merrida Magdalene
    In Giza, he is in a present;
    At him in his native Berlin
    The whole convention took up arms.

    (Spitting on him in charisma,
    Disliked well done -
    For addiction to Buddhism
    And for the black complexion.)

    He rode short, long
    The river blocked the way!
    Either Valga, or Volga,
    Or simply Oka.

    With the Hunnas of Lacuna
    Rowing along the coast
    And the Punic runes
    Under Ovid sing:

    Quid est veritas, boyars?
    Stultis scriptas manifest!
    Sapiens nil admirare,
    Credo quia absurdum est!

    Our hero opened his throat:
    "Com tsu world! Their bin client!
    Arrendatto vide the boat! .. "
    But - an incident happened.

    Something whistled in the sky
    And sick land - clap!
    Unidentified body
    It hit the guy in the forehead.

    (That under the iron piece
    Granite sprinkled to the sides -
    Moses chopped a chisel
    On the tablets of the alphabet!)

    Fail me in place
    He lay down
    According to Scaliger - two hundred years,
    According to Petavius ​​- a hundred!

    The world is a lot of hemorrhoids
    I raped for this period.
    For example, Achaeans of Troy
    Surrendered to the Germans

    To decorate their Reichstag.
    And then there was a plague,
    And the calling of the Varangians
    From Athens to Belomor,

    On the Moscow River in Constantinople
    Romulus Roman slammed
    And Homer in Tiberias
    He finished his "Carmen".

    And when the sleeping one woke up,
    He began to feel his skeleton:
    It looks like it’s real,
    But actually - no.

    A fly circled in heaven;
    With oak mummy leaves
    Circled. Out of my ear
    The snake crept silently ...

    ... grateful peoples
    There they poured a mound.
    Steamboats sail
    They say: "But pasaran!"

    Pioneers come running,
    They drag eggs and Easter cake.
    And they shout: "Down with the chimeras!
    Sleep well, our Ilyich! "

    Goryainov Oleg
  3. +39
    3 January 2013 12: 32
    I apologize for the offtopic!
    MOSCOW, 3 Jan - RIA News. Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree the French actor Gerard Depardieu was admitted to the citizenship of the Russian Federation, the Kremlin website said on Thursday.

    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/society/20130103/917053740.html#ixzz2GtpI1ZfM

    This is the answer to all the ill-wishers of Russia! laughing
    1. Cavas
      +13
      3 January 2013 12: 36
      Quote: Apollon
      Apollo



      COME BACK !!!
      1. +9
        3 January 2013 13: 08
        Quote: Cavas
        COME BACK !!!


        into the updated UNION !!! drinks fellow
        1. Cavas
          +20
          3 January 2013 13: 11
          Quote: Apollon
          into the updated UNION !!!

          And what, in the old weak !!!! drinks fellow


          1. +1
            3 January 2013 14: 53
            Quote: Cavas
            And what, in the old weak !!!!

            Is this a call for a revival of colonial politics? laughing
            1. WW3
              WW3
              +21
              3 January 2013 15: 08
              Quote: olegyurjewitch
              Is this a call for a revival of colonial politics?
              This is the restoration of the sovereignty of the USSR! soldier
          2. +5
            3 January 2013 16: 27
            In the garbage pit of the Baltic states!
            1. +8
              3 January 2013 18: 26
              Incidentally, tribaltics is the key to Sweden and Finland. Moreover, you can occupy Chukhontsev’s business, feed the Russian Army a new look. So, purely from a strategic point of view, there is nothing for the invaders to leave bridgeheads on truly Russian land, and even paid for in blood and ringing coin.
            2. -1
              4 January 2013 09: 01
              Quote: GoldKonstantin
              In the garbage pit of the Baltic states!

              When I served, we had almost all BMD gunner’s operators in Lithuania.
          3. +5
            3 January 2013 16: 56
            Quote: Cavas
            And what, in the old weak !!!!


            Dear Mat! I just drew attention to your comment.
            My answer is the state, by which I am a citizen in a referendum vote on the preservation of the USSR, voted ZA. In the percentage of those who voted FOR, my vote is also listed! IMHO

            So I'm not weak !!! Weak to those who voted against. laughing
    2. akbarr
      0
      3 January 2013 14: 14
      It is clearly written there that Russia did not receive a request from Citizen Depardieu for citizenship! Read carefully!
      RIA - has long turned into a cheap yellow newspaper. Write headlines that do not meet the content.
      1. +6
        3 January 2013 14: 40
        Putin gave a press conference about this. Depardieu is now Russian !!!
      2. +8
        3 January 2013 15: 53
        Quote: akbarr
        It is clearly written there that Russia did not receive a request from Citizen Depardieu for citizenship! Read carefully!
        RIA - has long turned into a cheap yellow newspaper. Write headlines that do not meet the content.


        just to blurt out something laughing

        Peskov explained for what merits Depardieu received Russian citizenship
        MOSCOW, 3 January. Press Secretary of President Vladimir Putin Dmitry Peskov explained the granting of Russian citizenship to actor Gerard Depardieu by his contribution to the development of Russian cinema.

        "The fact is that Depardieu played in a number of very large film projects, played roles, including his work on the role of Rasputin," he told Interfax. Peskov noted that "this film has not yet been released in our screens, but this is a very bold and new dubbing of this role."

        We are talking about the film "Rasputin", which was filmed at the initiative of Gerard Depardieu. Watch the video about the filming here.
        Read more: http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2013/01/03/1078482.html
        1. +7
          3 January 2013 16: 12
          Quote: akbarr
          It is clearly written there that Russia did not receive a request from Citizen Depardieu for citizenship!
          Decree on admission to the citizenship of the Russian Federation

          3 January 2013, 12: 00

          Vladimir Putin signed a decree on admission to the citizenship of the Russian Federation Gerard Depardieu.

          Full text of the Decree “On Admission to the Citizenship of the Russian Federation”:

          In accordance with paragraph "a" of Article 89 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation to satisfy the application for the admission to the citizenship of the Russian Federation Depardieu Gerard Xavier, born in 1948 in France.

          3 January 2013, 12: 00

          then the statement still was! IMHO
          1. +4
            4 January 2013 00: 46
            Quote: akbarr
            Write headlines that do not meet the content.


            and so you don’t have any doubts at all, read this at your leisure

            Depardieu admitted that he adores Russia and wants to learn Russian

            PARIS, 3 January. / Corr. ITAR-TASS Sergey Shcherbakov /. Gerard Depardieu loves Russia and intends to take up the study of the Russian language. The famous actor announced this today in his letter, excerpts from which the French press publishes after the news of the granting of Russian citizenship to the artist.
            “Yes, I made a request for a passport, and I'm glad that my request was accepted,” writes Depardieu. According to him, he “loves Russia” - its culture, history and way of thinking of people. The actor recalls that his father "was once a communist and listened to Radio Moscow."
            “I like making films here, in which I work together with actors such as Vladimir Mashkov,” admitted Depardieu. In addition, Russia “is not a state where the prime minister could call a citizen of his country a pitiful man,” the actor writes, alluding to the words of the French prime minister, which seriously hurt Depardieu’s feelings.
            In his letter, the master of cinema makes it clear that the idea of ​​living in Russia does not scare him at all. True, not in Moscow - "too big a metropolis." “I prefer the village, in Russia I know wonderful places,” said the actor.
            “I will learn Russian,” - said Depardieu.

            http://www.itar-tass.com/c1/614814.html
            1. mda
              mda
              0
              4 January 2013 10: 24
              Quote: Apollon
              Depardieu admitted that he adores Russia and wants to learn Russian

              Absolutely at the old woman of Europe the roof went if millionaires to Russia leave Europe!
    3. +3
      3 January 2013 14: 20
      Quote: Apollon
      Putin signed a decree on admitting French actor Gerard Depardieu to the citizenship of the Russian Federation,

      Well, now for Russia you can be calm. Putin and Depardieu are a great force.
      1. +9
        3 January 2013 15: 47
        Quote: Karabin
        Putin and Depardieu are a great force.

        Osterix and Obelix mean? ... laughing
        1. +2
          3 January 2013 17: 19
          Nick,
          Haberdashery and Cardinal.
  4. +28
    3 January 2013 12: 33
    For most peoples living in the Russian Empire ... the USSR did not have a pronounced negative. That the Russian Empire, that the USSR did not, in contrast to the enlightened impudent Saxons, French, Germans, Spaniards and other colonial powers, carried out a policy of exterminating the population on colonized lands. Moreover, for the same Armenians, Georgians, Moldavians and other great Chukhons, joining the Republic of Ingushetia, and then the USSR, saved these peoples from destruction and genocide. Now the people of these countries are hammered that they are Russian enemies, but the essence of history is that sooner or later everything will fall into place.
    1. +13
      3 January 2013 13: 07
      And how many vacancies in universities there were for representatives of various nationalities. We learned it on our own head.
      1. mamba
        +10
        3 January 2013 13: 58
        Quote: andrei.2012
        And how many vacancies in universities there were for representatives of various nationalities. We learned it on our own head.

        Unfortunately, you are right. The new national intelligentsia begins self-identification, as a rule, with nationalism, which quickly turns into Russophobia. Usually the motivation is a feeling of inferiority, but it is driven into the depths of the subconscious. Living there, this feeling gradually destroys the soul of the "national intellectual", radicalizing him in the direction of chauvinism and fascism.
      2. +6
        3 January 2013 15: 49
        Quote: andrei.2012
        . Learned on their own head.

        Seen badly taught. They did not instill respect and reverence for teachers.
  5. Krasnoyarsk
    -1
    3 January 2013 12: 39
    To hell with the Eurasian Union, into the forest of such allies.
    1. bukyak
      +3
      3 January 2013 12: 47
      They are not like that! They lost the war, and the winner began to write a story for himself, pursuing one single goal - DO NOT ALLOW THE RECREATION OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE, since the RUSSIAN EMPIRE is a COMPETITOR in the COMPETITION OF NATIONS, which is already over 2000 years old !!!
      watch the "movie"
      1. +4
        3 January 2013 12: 51
        Quote: bukyak
        We lost the war

        And who lost the warrior?
        1. bukyak
          -2
          3 January 2013 12: 52
          What do you think happened in the 1991th year?
          1. +23
            3 January 2013 12: 57
            Quote: bukyak
            What do you think happened in the 1991th year?

            Want to say that we lost to whom? If you are talking about the victory of the United States in a cold warrior, then this is a feast of victory, and it’s difficult to call it such. Now analyzing what is happening and who is winning, the West is in flames, and Russia is gaining momentum.
            The Germans stood at the walls of Moscow and also talked about victory, but in the end ................ hi
            1. bukyak
              +13
              3 January 2013 13: 08
              What kind of feast victory are we talking about if our homeland was cut into pieces ?! the vast majority of military factories, the LAWS of Russia, the CONSTITUTION of Russia, and school textbooks on HISTORY were written under the dictation of the American advisers who ~ until 2003 occupied TWO floors in our white house! ....... I'm not talking about the USSR’s gold reserve, which supposedly disappeared without a trace, an agreement on the export by the Americans of ALL WEAPON PLUTONIUM with which gold is not near, both in price and importance !!! .... there’s not enough site to list all the results of this peer (like you say) victory !!!
              1. +23
                3 January 2013 13: 22
                Quote: bukyak
                ..site is not enough to list all the results of this feast (as you say) victory !!!

                Yes, you can list and cry, just read carefully my posts.
                Now in what position is Russia and, in your words, the victorious west? \
                We lost fights with heavy losses, but not to the warrior !!!
                although you can continue to put cons and shout-ALL DROPPED. hi
                1. bukyak
                  +1
                  3 January 2013 13: 47
                  where did you see in my words that "everything is gone" or at least a hint of panic ?????? ...... THIS IS A FACT !!! how can you not understand that RUSSIA IS NOT SOVEREIGN, and the only way to regain sovereignty is WAR, a real HOT WAR, at least until the beginning of the 21st century it was the ONLY WAY, and for 2000 years mankind has not invented other ways ... ............ THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR was exactly that ...... the West invented Hitler for one single purpose - to remove the alleged "bloody dictator Stalin", but in fact, Stalin is a by-product , arranged by the Anglo-Saxons revolution in Russia, and the revolution for the destruction of Russia ........... and so after the Second World War Russia became 100% sovereign !!!

                  Here are two maps: the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. How do you think they differ?
                  1. Nurker
                    -8
                    3 January 2013 14: 02
                    Quote: bukyak
                    where did you see in my words that "everything is gone" or at least a hint of panic ?????? ...... THIS IS A FACT !!! how can you not understand that RUSSIA IS NOT SOVEREIGN, and the only way to regain sovereignty is WAR, a real HOT WAR, at least until the beginning of the 21st century it was the ONLY WAY, and for 2000 years mankind has not invented other ways ... ............ THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR was exactly that ...... the West invented Hitler for one single purpose - to remove the alleged "bloody dictator Stalin", but in fact, Stalin is a by-product , arranged by the Anglo-Saxons revolution in Russia, and the revolution for the destruction of Russia ........... and so after the Second World War Russia became 100% sovereign !!!


                    Dear, are you by any chance not a COGSMAN?
                    1. bukyak
                      -4
                      3 January 2013 14: 08
                      NO!!!! not a BOB!! ......... this is a reality that for some reason you don’t want to see, and everyone thinks that it’s impossible to defeat the Russians ....... yes, in the OPEN WAR, few people succeeded, or rather units
                      1. Nurker
                        -4
                        3 January 2013 14: 13
                        Quote: bukyak
                        NO!!!! not a BOB!! ......... this is a reality that for some reason you don’t want to see, and everyone thinks that it’s impossible to defeat the Russians ....... yes, in the OPEN WAR, few people succeeded, or rather units


                        I see this reality, just until I’m the supreme commander in chief and I can’t change the policy much, so I start with myself: I stop drinking, smoke, don’t buy what I don’t need, in a word I do a good thing for myself and my relatives.

                        And if you open a war and fight there again with the Germans or Americans, it turns out that the elite uses you
                      2. bukyak
                        +1
                        3 January 2013 14: 22
                        our elite, almost EVERYTHING, except for a small handful of people, ARTIFICIAL, UNREAL, THE AMERICAN'S APPEALS ........ I will not name any surnames here, because each of us must realize this, I mean who is with the people , and who is "KO NDOM" ....... and I will also add that I am the so-called liberals - PUTINETS wink , voted for him without hesitation and any thought !!! ....... I do not drink and do not smoke, and for this it is not necessary to be a KOBovets !!!
                      3. -6
                        3 January 2013 15: 28
                        Quote: nurker
                        And if you open a war and fight there again with the Germans or Americans, it turns out that the elite uses you

                        1) Do not want your own elite to use you - someone else will use it.
                        2) You do not open (unleash) a war, do not, you are preparing for protection.
                        3) And when you defend your country from China, will you think that you are being used by the elite of Kazakhstan? I think no. I think you do not want to fight "Germans or Americans". Do you think that "while eating Russia they will choke, and at this time you will" do a useful thing for yourself and your loved ones. "?
                    2. +5
                      3 January 2013 14: 32
                      Quote: nurker
                      how do you not understand that RUSSIA is not sovereign

                      We were captured is the MATRIX belay AAAAAAAAAAAAAA, yes this is not panic, this is the finish wassat
                      1. Cavas
                        +7
                        3 January 2013 14: 39
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        We were captured is the MATRIX

                        Sanya, let’s we go ask them their homework ????
                      2. bukyak
                        -2
                        3 January 2013 14: 47
                        Ie, in your opinion, I invented it?! ..... Here's what is written below in my post, it's all in the DOCUMENTS, that is, it's not my invention, it's our story, and the real reality! And if the TV did not talk about this for 20 years, then this does not mean that all this does not exist! The winner in the war (no matter what the war is), first of all seizes control of ALL the media for rubbing the population of his PROPOGANDA, only not directly "rules", but through the protégés - GUSINSKY, KHODORKOVSKY, BEREZOVSKY and rochi ... . How do you think the scientists of the Soviet research institutes became BILLIARDS?
                      3. MG42
                        +9
                        3 January 2013 15: 41
                        Quote: bukyak
                        ALL the media for rubbing the population of their PROPOGANDA, only not directly "taxis", but through the protégés - GUSINSKY, KHODORKOVSKY, BEREZOVSKY and rochih.

                        You have old data. <others are no longer there, but those are far away> but what am I telling you to a Russian, you know that Boris Abramich is in London, Gusinsky in Israel, Khodorkovsky and Lebedev in places not so distant are winding up. lol And he owns the media empire of Gusinsky Gazprom - media, Berezovsky - state-in. And Yukos Rosneft. It looks like you are living under the wrong flag by chance (this is an assumption).
                      4. bukyak
                        -3
                        3 January 2013 15: 55
                        Comrade, do not attribute to me what I did not say! wink
                      5. MG42
                        +9
                        3 January 2013 15: 59
                        Tambov Wolf comrade to you "Russian" wink You are late with your knowledge of Russian reality almost 10 years.
                      6. bukyak
                        -6
                        3 January 2013 16: 11
                        fuck, but the ambition is ........ what, do you think that you caught me on something ?! laughing ......................... keep thinking that you know something wink ! or rather, you know exactly how much the TV tells you! ...... well, and you also have "FREE and DEMOCRATIC" thorns where you have "FULL FREEDOM OF CHOICE" laughing
                      7. +12
                        3 January 2013 18: 35
                        Quote: MG42



                        It’s such a tactic to ascribe to the current government all the sins of the seven-bankers of the 90s, emphasizing that Putin is the protege of these bankers and continues to spread rot in Russia as before. Something ruins for a long time, twelve years does nothing! And if he is trying to develop something, it means he is preparing the country for surrender, well, as repairing an apartment before selling it would be nice for the new owners. Therefore, probably his true owners are unhappy and are trying to remove him, but for some reason he is not cleaned. Or they are no longer quite masters

                        I Caught a Russian Bear ,,, So Lead It Here ,,, Do Not Let ,,,
                      8. Agronomist
                        +1
                        3 January 2013 23: 34
                        The current government is not only Putin wink , or rather not so much, you seriously think that one person can rule the country ....? It is strange that someone else did not respond from the moderators to defend their laughing . Pounced on one person who went against the party lol
                      9. Agronomist
                        0
                        3 January 2013 23: 27
                        You didn’t make up just this resource is also controlled by these persons, so they strangle, at least by minuses drinks
                      10. bukyak_1
                        -2
                        4 January 2013 13: 02
                        Yes, they banned me altogether and deleted all my posts laughing
                      11. MG42
                        +2
                        4 January 2013 14: 00
                        Quote: bukyak_1
                        Yes, they banned me altogether and deleted all my posts

                        At the very least, it sounds strange as you are here on the site = under a foreign flag for you, shout "we lost in the cold war!" "Russia is a non-sovereign state", etc. feel . Someone is inefficiently investing in such bots you stop
                      12. bukyak_1
                        -2
                        4 January 2013 14: 37
                        MG - you are CRETIN !!!
                2. bukyak
                  -5
                  3 January 2013 14: 04
                  Where in my words did you see at least a hint that "everything was lost" or some kind of panic ?! IT IS A FACT!!! How can you not understand that Russia is NOT a sovereign state, and to say more, the Russian Federation was created by AMERICANS, whether you like it or not !!! And the only way to regain sovereignty is WAR, a real HOT WAR, at least for 2000 years mankind has not invented another way ........ The Great Patriotic War was exactly THIS ......... the West invented Hitler with only one goal - to remove the so-called "bloody dictator Stalin", and Stalin is a by-product of the REVOLUTION that the Anglo-Saxons muddied to destroy Russia, which was what happened in the early years of Soviet power, the JIDES under the command of the JIDA US CITIZEN ( if I’m not mistaken) TROTSKY, DESTROYED EVERYTHING RUSSIAN, primarily the RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH, THE RUSSIAN TSAR AND HIS ALL FAMILY, AND STALIN STOPPED ALL THIS, and began to destroy all this ZhIDVU with their followers ... .... That's against THIS "Tirana", Hitler and came up with !!!!!! ............. So, ONLY after the Second World War, Russia became 150% sovereign !!!. .......................... AND YOU, if you want, then continue to think that all this happened by itself, well, whether someone just wanted something there!
                  1. +6
                    3 January 2013 14: 33
                    Quote: bukyak
                    ... And YOU, if you want, then continue to think that all this happened by itself, well, or just someone wanted something there!

                    what are you talking about?
                    1. MG42
                      +7
                      3 January 2013 14: 44
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      what are you talking about?

                  2. +3
                    3 January 2013 18: 05
                    Quote: bukyak
                    The Russian Federation was created by the Americans, whether you want it or not !!!

                    I completely agree, after all, judging by the results of the referendum, the majority of the population voted for the preservation of the USSR, who would benefit from the creation of the Russian Federation .... on the rubble of the Soviet Union, if not our geopolitical "partners" ...?
                    1. bukyak
                      +2
                      3 January 2013 18: 45
                      I noticed such a pattern (or what?), I look at the map of the Russian Empire of the 18-19th centuries, there is NOT A single national entity or autonomy! ... only Finland looks special. And I look at the map of the Soviet Union and immediately catch the eye of the republic: Ukrainian SSR, Kazakh SSR, etc. ... And they appeared far from accidental, and it was SPECIALLY planned and embodied ..... BUT IT WASN'T NONE of the national education in the RSFSR (Russia) ....... and what we see on the map of the modern Russian Federation ..........?! ............ is it true that does not seem like an accident ?!
                  3. +17
                    3 January 2013 18: 45
                    Quote: bukyak
                    Where in my words did you see at least a hint that "everything was lost" or some kind of panic ?! IT IS A FACT!!! How do you not understand that Russia is NOT a sovereign state, but to say more- The Russian Federation was created by AMERICANS- whether you want it or not !!!


                    Created by INSTRUCTION OF AMERICAN ADVISERS, Feel the difference?
                    While Yeltsin-Kozyrev's Russia FOLLOWED their instructions, gradually surrendering sovereignty. Everything was normal for friend Bill and friend Kolya, And as soon as after Putin's bloody hebny came to power under the tutelage of Jewish Masons, it slowly began to RESTORATE SOVERINITY and everyone didn’t agree at all. ) to follow the transatlantic ORDERS, the "orange opposition", "de-Stalinizers", "nationalists", "separatists", etc. immediately appeared and became active as a naphthalene moth.
                    1. bukyak
                      +1
                      3 January 2013 18: 51
                      Ascetic, here’s how to explain to people that THIS is the result of the defeat in the war, and not someone’s whim?! ....... and we talked only about the material losses of Russia, and how many PEOPLE have been lost in 1991 ~ ~ 2003 years!
                3. Agronomist
                  -8
                  3 January 2013 23: 23
                  We are on our knees, and we don’t have to let dust in our eyes. In any case, if the amers bend to us tryndets will come even earlier. it is enough that our gold and currency reserves of their darlings are running out.
            2. 0
              3 January 2013 18: 28
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              The Germans stood at the walls of Moscow

              A Marshal would need to know at what price the established positions were being won. And how much effort and blood is needed for this.
            3. Agronomist
              0
              3 January 2013 23: 17
              It seems that the moderators either do not watch the insert, or simply bought by the bourgeoisie and act under their breath wink
              1. +2
                4 January 2013 09: 37
                I also have this opinion. 2 months ago I posted an article on Radio Liberty, where "advanced" journalists scold Stephen Korn for the wrong policy of screwing up Russia with video
                http://oko-planet.su/politik/politwar/148432-ty-ne-prava-amerika-nado-ne-b-menya
                ta-krovati-perestavit-ili-mihail-sokolov-o-reforme-radio-svoboda-18.html

                Look like it.
                Stephen Korn respect and congratulations on the assignment of an extraordinary rank.
          2. GHG
            GHG
            +3
            3 January 2013 13: 00
            They didn’t lose, they just went underground.
          3. MG42
            +8
            3 January 2013 13: 23
            Quote: bukyak
            What do you think happened in the 1991th year?

            Bad = tone by question to answer the question characteristic of citizens of a particular nationality wink
          4. Nurker
            -11
            3 January 2013 14: 03
            Quote: bukyak
            What do you think happened in the 1991th year?


            Nothing good and nothing bad
            1. +1
              4 January 2013 02: 15
              what an informative and concretized answer .... let's keep up the good work success
          5. +2
            3 January 2013 15: 09
            Quote: bukyak
            What do you think happened in the 1991th year?

            Actually, then all of us thought that we just had a match. Then we were told that we "lost". Hmm. To deceive and win, different things in general. Not?
            And in general, until pills for masochism are invented, they will "win" us.
      2. Cavas
        +6
        3 January 2013 12: 56
        Quote: bukyak
        watch the "movie"

        Looked, and why ???

        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        who lost the warrior?

        Zhirik is cooler than trand !!!! wassat

        PS You listen carefully, then 20 years, then 6 years, then 40 years !!!)))
        One word DEPUTY !!!!!))) wassat
        1. bukyak
          -4
          3 January 2013 12: 59
          What do you mean "what" and "trandit" ?? !! Now the question is addressed to you, WHAT do you think happened in 1991?
          1. +7
            3 January 2013 13: 05
            Quote: bukyak
            Now the question is addressing you- WHAT do you think happened in the year 1991?

            Well, there was a betrayal, and not only in 91. With the advent of Hunchback it was the same. So who, whom, and under what circumstances lost?
          2. Cavas
            +8
            3 January 2013 13: 09
            Quote: bukyak

            What do you mean "what" and "trandit" ?? !! Now the question is addressed to you, WHAT do you think happened in 1991?

            Why to me, did I stand at the helm ???
            In the best case, I was a stealer !!! wassat
            Want to talk about it! request
            Do not even think. I remember my mom’s tears !!!!
            1. +4
              3 January 2013 13: 13
              Quote: Cavas
              Do not even think. I remember my mom’s tears !!!!


              plus to you!
          3. +8
            3 January 2013 13: 15
            Quote: bukyak
            WHAT do you think happened in the 1991 year?


            performance has grown into drama, for the peoples of the USSR !!! IMHO
            1. bukyak
              -3
              3 January 2013 13: 19
              and 1917 is also a performance ???
              1. Cavas
                +10
                3 January 2013 13: 24
                Quote: bukyak
                and 1917 is also a performance ???

                Maybe we have different textbooks ???
                1. +6
                  3 January 2013 14: 27
                  Quote: Cavas
                  Maybe we have different textbooks ???

                  Colleague +! good! No, he has different brains, and is imprisoned for something else ...
                  1. Cavas
                    +4
                    3 January 2013 16: 22
                    Quote: Tersky
                    No, he has different brains, and is imprisoned for something else ...

                    You think?
                    But I strongly doubt that he even has them !!!))) wassat
        2. MG42
          +9
          3 January 2013 13: 11
          Quote: Cavas
          Zhirik is cooler than trand !!!!

          Zhirik's laurels haunt MP Fedorov = there are practically no specific words
          1. Cavas
            +6
            3 January 2013 13: 17
            Quote: MG42
            Zhirik's laurels haunt MP Fedorov = there are practically no specific words

            SO and I about it !!! hi
        3. mda
          mda
          +6
          3 January 2013 13: 39
          Quote: Cavas
          Zhirik is cooler than trand !!

          Yes, he’s a Zhirik in Africa and Zhirik. I just don’t understand Zhirik-Jew (by his father's last name Eidelshtein) but pours mud on the west. Strange ...
          1. Cavas
            +7
            3 January 2013 13: 41
            Quote: mda-a
            I just don’t understand Zhirik-Jew (father's surname is Eidelstein) and pours mud on the west. Strange ..

            Disguised, tsuka !!!))
            1. mda
              mda
              +4
              3 January 2013 14: 55
              Quote: Cavas
              Disguised, tsuka !!!))

              Yeah, disguised ... but the United States likes to pour mud!
              1. mda
                mda
                +9
                3 January 2013 16: 25
                Quote: mda-a
                .but the USA likes to pour mud!

                And bark at the debate
          2. Fox
            +5
            3 January 2013 14: 17
            Quote: mda-a
            Zhirik-Jew (paternal surname Eidelstein) and pours mud west. Strange ...

            nothing strange ... you yourself answered the question ... among the Jews, the transfer of the gene pool goes ONLY through the mother, so he is "unclean" and the Novodvorsk and Alekseevs ("clean") hate him ...
          3. +1
            4 January 2013 03: 37
            He is a clown, that’s the whole answer!
        4. Agronomist
          0
          3 January 2013 23: 37
          So he is the deputy of the party that you are defending laughing
      3. +1
        3 January 2013 15: 17
        No need to listen to this Bitch Fedorov. We were not defeated, our country and people were betrayed ....
        Wait, this freak voted to join the WTO, and in simple terms,FULFILLMENT OF Sovereignty and Putin (signed)) and Fedorov (voted-FOR)) - this is a concrete action on the future collapse of the country ...
        And everything else blah blah blah ....
      4. 0
        3 January 2013 16: 58
        And you, friends, why are you sitting on top there, why did you lose the information war. Keep in mind, not the people, but you and why again Russia is losing. am
      5. +6
        3 January 2013 19: 06
        We did not lose the war but only the battle, Nobody counts with the warriors.
        They did not reckon with us and even laughed at us in the "dashing 90s" Moreover, few people remember that the agenda at the end of the 90s really was the possibility of dividing Russia into national and territorial entities. To enclose the North Caucasus with a security fence as in Israel, to make Moscow and the region similar to banking Switzerland, to form the FER and separately the Siberian oil-bearing and gas-bearing regions like Tatarstan should be a special economic zone.
        Quote: bukyak
        watch the "movie"


        WAY LONG AT 10 YEARS-4 part. The first part of Semibankirshchina I already laid out



        Or watch a movie where the situation in which the country finds itself after the destruction of the USSR is analyzed, what new economic and geographical realities the state faced before drawing conclusions "Russian card-1"

        1. bukyak
          0
          3 January 2013 19: 12
          Ascetic, what does the FIGHT mean?! .... then Germany can be brought into this category too, it can also be said that she lost the battle! although if you do not look at history, then looking at today's Germany, you can’t say at all that it lost something to someone .... isn’t it?! ............. although on the other on the philosophical side, we can say that the war did not stop, it only stopped, which is the TRUTH!
          ______________ And present-day Russia is less battle-worthy, and (pah pah pah) starting to revive on all fronts is nothing but the full merit of the CURRENT PRESIDENT and ITS MOVEMENT OF NATIONAL RESISTANCE !!! ..... no more no less!
        2. +8
          3 January 2013 19: 48
          Film "Russian card-2"
          "Why Russia is not America"

      6. +3
        3 January 2013 21: 44
        Quote: bukyak
        watch the "movie"

        Great video! sensible guy - this Fedorov. Thank!
    2. +12
      3 January 2013 12: 54
      Quote: Krasnoyarets

      To hell with the Eurasian Union, into the forest of such allies.

      If you do nothing, it will be even worse !!! Only the CU and Euroses will help restore the past.
      1. +5
        3 January 2013 14: 30
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        If you do nothing, it will be even worse !!!

        Hello Sasha! You are right, there are a lot of people who want to do nothing, it’s more convenient ... Breaking down does not build, the soul does not hurt.
    3. sincman
      +6
      3 January 2013 12: 58
      Our enemies are counting on this reaction! For this, new textbooks are being written! Why was the heart given to you? Maybe then to separate the wheat from the chaff and not fall into the nets placed by our "well-wishers". You need to feel with your heart and analyze with your mind on the basis of the knowledge about good and evil inherent in our souls at the subconscious level.
    4. +3
      3 January 2013 18: 14
      This is not the first time I read your posts, and I cannot understand: why do you dislike the union republics so much? Well, you must admit that these very, in your opinion, "reptile" republics helped Russia a lot in their time.
      1. Nurker
        0
        3 January 2013 18: 39
        Quote: Vodrak
        why don't you like union republics so much?


        In gratitude, all my comments were omitted)))
      2. -1
        3 January 2013 19: 03
        Quote: Vodrak
        why don't you like union republics so much?

        Well, what kind of union republics are you? While someone feeds you, you and his allies.
        1. Nurker
          -5
          3 January 2013 19: 32
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          Well, what kind of union republics are you? While someone feeds you, you and his allies.


          It turns out you say that you feed us and teach civilization? Strange, but we are all told that it is we who feed you.

          Question: "Who is right?" with specific arguments
          1. +5
            3 January 2013 20: 31
            Nurker,

            What are you feeding us? Argument number one! I don’t see yours with us!

            And how many of yours are being fed? Argument Number Two! But this good in bulk!
            1. Nurker
              -4
              3 January 2013 20: 38
              Quote: SergeySK
              And how many of yours are being fed? Argument Number Two! But this good in bulk!


              And how many of ours is who?
              1. +2
                3 January 2013 20: 43
                Nurker,

                Abdikermov! Is that clear ????
                1. bukyak
                  -1
                  3 January 2013 20: 46
                  SergeySK
                  even you all under one comb .....?!
                  1. 0
                    3 January 2013 20: 51
                    bukyak,

                    And why the hell should I comb everyone in different ways? Did he ask for arguments? Got !
                    1. bukyak
                      +2
                      3 January 2013 21: 00
                      I didn’t ask for anything, I’m Russian, I was born and live in Russia! .... but with your irresponsible statements, you can turn away from yourself those who want to live with us and integrate into our society! ..... this is not about guest workers namely about PEOPLE!
                      1. +1
                        3 January 2013 21: 02
                        bukyak,

                        I already fixed it! He of course))))) Wrong!

                        And those who want to live with us already live here do not wait for mercy from "ELITE"!
                        Everything is already with citizenship!

                        With us, many who want to live and everything on their own terms are HISTORICAL, POLITICAL, ECONOMIC, and even hell knows what!

                        You won’t be in front of everyone! ! !

                        Azerbaijanis do not hesitate to write that they are friends of us Armenians must pass! Who else will forgive ???
                      2. bukyak
                        +1
                        3 January 2013 21: 19
                        we are not talking about indispensable Russian citizenship .... Do you see what a person writes to you from Kazakhstan ?! moreover, he writes in pure RUSSIAN language ...... too, will we send it to huh? NO, we must take them under our wing. They live at home, but in a POLITICAL, ECONOMIC and MILITARY UNION with us !!! ..... THERE IS WHAT SPEECH IS ABOUT !!!
                      3. +2
                        3 January 2013 21: 36
                        bukyak,

                        And I do not mind! Only if you ask for arguments do not be offended by them!

                        I have not described any real distant past!

                        And by the way Belarus can safely say that it feeds us! Its products on our shelves are rampant! At least in my city!

                        And I'm not offended even! ! !

                        He must be offended by his elites! The economy must be built and not arguments asked! If Belarusians have something to sell to us, they don’t ask for arguments or trunks with us!
                      4. bukyak
                        0
                        3 January 2013 21: 44
                        You even made up your mind - arguments, arguments ..... neither of which I didn’t ask you ...... DO NOT OFFEND PEOPLE !!!
                      5. 0
                        3 January 2013 21: 53
                        bukyak,

                        Che you struck up PEOPLE DO NOT OFFEND ??? They don’t take offense at the truth! He doesn’t want to be offended by direct answers, even if he doesn’t ask stupid questions!
                      6. bukyak
                        +1
                        3 January 2013 21: 58
                        He asked you the right question! Kazakhs do not go to us, they live in KAZAKHSTAN!
                      7. +1
                        3 January 2013 22: 08
                        bukyak,

                        On February 11, the Stratfor Agency published material on relations between Russia and the countries of Central Asia, which mentioned that approximately 10% of Kazakhstanis work abroad, mainly in Russia.

                        I can give a link!

                        And in the end, you’ll find statistics yourself, it’s not difficult, don’t break! ! !
                      8. bukyak
                        0
                        3 January 2013 22: 12
                        Here you are an ulcer .... laughing well, as you know, I will not argue!
            2. bukyak
              +1
              3 January 2013 20: 39
              No one feeds anyone! These slogans were imposed intentionally for separatism of the national republic !!!
      3. +5
        4 January 2013 02: 12
        tell me why do we love for example Kazakhstan?
        for the fact that they lied and in every possible way continue to belittle the Russian contribution to the development of Kazakhstan? For the fact that the Russians saved the Kazakhs as a nation, and in return they can only whine about how the Russians colonized them? For the fact that the Russians in their native country of Kazakhstan turned out to be second-class people? For that matter, my friend, I’ll tell you a secret that in this life it’s always the way you present everything, and you present the Russians as your eternal oppressors. Why should we love and respect you ????
        1. Nurker
          -3
          4 January 2013 03: 38
          Quote: Smoke
          tell me why do we love for example Kazakhstan? for the fact that they lied and in every possible way continue to belittle the Russian contribution to the development of Kazakhstan? For the fact that the Russians saved the Kazakhs as a nation, and in return they can only whine about how the Russians colonized them? For the fact that the Russians in their native country of Kazakhstan turned out to be second-class people? For that matter, my friend, I’ll tell you a secret that in this life it’s always the way you present everything, and you present the Russians as your eternal oppressors. Why should we love and respect you ????


          Aren't you ... afraid to cry again in your waistcoat? Yes, p ... we are building Russians on the gateway, drunk
          drunks, and they say thank you to us that they sent us home. By God, every day we are only doing this, it’s best that only we can get the Russians ... to live. Do not respect and do not love who forces you, your right
          1. +2
            4 January 2013 12: 35
            Well, again ... as soon as simple questions begin to ask you, dumb trolling and avoiding the answer begin, and I have to answer you, I assure you of this.
          2. Ingvald_Bueny
            +4
            4 January 2013 13: 57
            Quote: nurker
            Aren't you ... afraid to cry again in your waistcoat? Yes, p ... we are building Russians on the gateway, drunk
            drunks, and they say thank you to us that they sent us home. By God, every day we are only doing this, it’s best that only we can get the Russians ... to live. Do not respect and do not love who forces you, your right

            You have megalomania, and it’s called “chauvinism.” Apparently, in relation to Russians, you personally, drawing a conclusion from your comments, feel as if an inferiority complex called “nationalism.” You need to work on your thinking, be kinder to people of any nationality and they will reach out to you.
      4. His
        0
        5 January 2013 14: 04
        What did the Russian-speaking population get kicked out for? For the built factories, roads, cities, for the upbringing of European culture?
  6. +1
    3 January 2013 12: 41
    Well, as children, by God.
    However, the day is not long when the political elites will have to rewrite such nonsense.
    1. +2
      3 January 2013 17: 07
      What is being pushed to children from childhood at school, so they will go around the world and it is unlikely that they will then be retrained.
      1. gribnik777
        +5
        3 January 2013 21: 56
        Quote: Simon
        What is being pushed to children from childhood at school, so they will go around the world and it is unlikely that they will then be retrained.



        Elephant tortured
        Swear
        Having been stolen by a trunk
        Elephant to the ground
        Goodbye to Ukraine,
        Hey my first edge!
        Innocently young
        Elephant Dyingє!
        Gay! Gay!
  7. WW3
    WW3
    +3
    3 January 2013 12: 42
    A common feature of the school books of the new nation states is the presentation of contacts with Russians and Russia as a source of problems and troubles for their ancestors.

    The old principle is to divide and conquer ....
    We lost the Cold War in 1991 and, naturally, the winner began to reformat the story for himself. So we have what we have, it is said, in particular, in the publication.

    Well, you shouldn’t sprinkle ashes on your head so much, integration processes are being revived and the amers are already worried .... the Clintonsha’s latest statement confirms this .... they now have problems themselves like burping from the Cold War with the USSR .... wink

  8. +3
    3 January 2013 12: 46
    do the parents of these unfortunate students really not tell them the truth? after all, they have received a Soviet education. but the worst thing is that in our schools they also teach nonsense instead of history
    1. +2
      3 January 2013 12: 50
      And what do the "unfortunate students" write ... - Try to go to the forum turan. If you don't vomit in 15 minutes, then you have a very strong body)))
    2. +4
      3 January 2013 12: 52
      Quote: andrei332809
      are the parents of these poor students not telling the truth?

      And how old are these parents, there is one youth and under the USSR they were five years old. What to take hi
  9. alex popov
    +13
    3 January 2013 12: 51
    Close "intellectually" borders for ALL "most ancient" ones. Until they pass a few specific exams, a tourist visa for 60 days instead of a work permit and a residence permit and "come on, dasvydania." The exam must include the following subjects: knowledge of Russian written and spoken at the level of at least 7-8 grades, the history of Russia (19-20 centuries in obligatory), the basics of knowledge of the Criminal Code and AK RF. We have enough cattle of our own, and the "educated" according to the current standard will understand the value of their new "knowledge". And everyone who has already entered is given a term within a year to pass this exam. Or "back to ancient history" ... Certain categories of "allies" understand only strength.
    1. +1
      3 January 2013 15: 09
      right to the point, but the authorities will not go for it
    2. +3
      3 January 2013 17: 17
      Yes, close the borders until they have learned all this, and whoever has not learned, let them remain in their ancient country and collect bananas, jumping on palm trees, instead of monkeys. And under the Union everything was built by these ancient nationalities, the Baltic was one of the best. Tashkent was restored after the earthquake by the entire Union; at present, a plane with flour and warm clothes would have been sent only.
      1. alex popov
        0
        7 January 2013 15: 34
        It is possible not only to close the borders, but also to support the local producer of fruit and vegetables. Among other things, the closure of the borders will affect the flow of drugs. It has been said more than once that one heroin load in a truck justifies any dumping on imported fruits and vegetables. What's easier? Is there a “universal prohibitor” named Gennady O.?
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          10 January 2013 01: 33
          And so small - fruits? You cease from the Asians it’s better to buy oil and gas, which you resell to Europe :))))))
          1. max-02215
            0
            10 January 2013 11: 06
            And what, you. will you do with him then? What didn’t burn out to breathe? If it weren’t for the USSR, they would have run along the mangyshlak for camels .......
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              10 January 2013 15: 02
              If it weren’t for the USSR, for the most part Russians would only run after cows at best.
              And hydrocarbons can easily be sold bypassing Russia - even to China, even to Europe.
  10. Skinny
    +11
    3 January 2013 12: 53
    When the Russians left the CIS they were all happy about throwing stones at trains, they said they wouldn’t have to feed a drunken gluttonous brother. They would become free eh and heal! The fate of any empire is decay.
    Although in my opinion the Russians pulled out of the Middle Ages half the peoples of Eurasia. Schools, hospitals were rebuilt there, and electricity was supplied.
    Defended in World War 2. Maybe I'm wrong, I was not in all the CIS.
    1. +7
      3 January 2013 13: 06
      As for Kyrgyzstan, I agree. Only now they managed to pull out of the Middle Ages (in the minds) only the northern part of the country. South as it was there, it remained. And when I left there, then the whole server was not so hot - ALL plants stood! Half were already stolen.
    2. Nurker
      -11
      3 January 2013 13: 56
      Quote: Skinny
      When the Russians left the CIS, they all rejoiced at throwing stones at trains, saying they wouldn’t have to feed a drunken gluttonous brother. They will become free eh and heal! The fate of any empire is decay. Although in my opinion the Russians pulled out half of the peoples of Eurasia from the Middle Ages. They rebuilt schools and hospitals there, conducted electricity. They protected it in World War II. Maybe I'm wrong, I was not in all the CIS.


      According to your reasoning, one gets the impression that if the USSR existed before 2013, then there would be no computers, the Internet, mobile and foreign cars
      1. +4
        3 January 2013 21: 58
        My aunt once lived with an uncle near the glorious city with the Kazakh name Semipalatinsk. They lived in a decent military town (even the school was not just average, but with in-depth study of English). Now in this school of sheep, the town is plundered and ravaged. And you say that Russia (USSR) pulled someone out of somewhere. Nothing of the kind - these are just illusions. The mentality of these peoples has not undergone any changes.
      2. +1
        4 January 2013 01: 32
        All this would be, where to go, you would not have what to buy for. Look at Iraq, Afghanistan.
    3. Green 413-1685
      +8
      3 January 2013 14: 03
      And not only. Before the Russians, epidemics of plague, halera, typhus were constantly raging there. The people received water from irrigation ditches along with cattle. So they built a sewage system for them, brought water. Every year there were sent from Med. academies Plague expeditions - vaccinated, carried out anti-epidemiological measures. How many of our doctors were then shot by the Basmachs, these descendants of "ancient civilizations" in dirty coats. Yes, you can endlessly enumerate, in fact the entire Wed. Az. pulled from the early Middle Ages into which they were hammered by the Mongols. And now these "heirs" are drawing us figwams.
    4. +5
      3 January 2013 14: 36
      Quote: Skinny
      They said you don’t have to feed a drunken gluttonous brother.

      No matter how they get stuck from such "feeding, how they healed can be seen by the number of gaster and criminal faces in Russia
      1. +2
        3 January 2013 17: 21
        It’s time for these Gaster to block the border for a long time, let the sheep graze in their houses, otherwise our guys can’t find work.
  11. 0
    3 January 2013 12: 55
    From the news, we must probably conclude that the textbooks in the Russian Federation are the most correct, honest and do not carry nationalistic ideas
    (It is interesting, but it can be assumed that in addition to the nationalist, there is a national idea).

    It’s also the thought that when the USSR was formed, it never occurred to anyone to rewrite the old textbooks of the Russian empire, they were taught that way.

    He studied according to Soviet textbooks, he already had to buy grades 9-11 - but he doesn’t remember much.
    PS. I love Zadorny look.
    1. Ingvald_Bueny
      0
      3 January 2013 13: 07
      Quote: Kars

      From the news, we must probably conclude that the textbooks in the Russian Federation are the most correct, honest and do not carry nationalistic ideas

      Do you mean that Russian textbooks carry “nationalist ideas?” If I misunderstood you, please explain.
    2. Nurker
      -6
      3 January 2013 13: 53
      Quote: Kars
      PS. I love Zadorny look.


      Zadornov - big jester and clown
      1. +2
        3 January 2013 17: 25
        But jesters were always with kings and kings, the only people who could tell the king or king the truth in their eyes and there was nothing to them for that.
    3. +4
      3 January 2013 14: 32
      Quote: Kars
      It’s also the thought that when the Soviet Union was formed, no one would have thought of rewriting the old textbooks of the Russian Empire

      It was a sin to conceal, but it never occurred to anyone to copy friends into enemies and vice versa ...
      1. +3
        3 January 2013 15: 17
        Quote: Tersky
        it was not necessary to rewrite friends as enemies and vice versa ...

        If I’m not mistaken, then all but the proletariat were rewritten as enemies. I’m too lazy to remember, and I didn’t really care about the perturbations of heroes and antiheroes depending on social origin and time period.
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        that Russian textbooks carry "nationalist ideas"?

        Is it in your textbooks that you are descended from ukrov and Russia is no longer the birthplace of elephants? - this is such a joke - but that Russian is no longer a nationality? And where is the difference between patriotism and nationalism?
  12. megatherion
    +9
    3 January 2013 13: 01
    I wonder how millions of migrants work in a "hostile country" and are not afraid to come to us? The local authorities amuse their pride or something by printing such textbooks? Or are they printed in the American embassies of these countries?
  13. Ingvald_Bueny
    +1
    3 January 2013 13: 04
    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the power and intellectual elites of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan and Georgia have shown that they and the Russian Federation have different development paths. What is their choice, some of them need the Euro-Economic Community as a single economic space and nothing more, with the aim of implementation of their economic programs. Will the benefit of this Russian Federation be a separate issue.
    1. Nurker
      -4
      3 January 2013 13: 54
      Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
      Will the benefit of this Russian Federation be a separate issue.


      What other benefits will be
  14. Oidsoldier
    +11
    3 January 2013 13: 16
    ... History is known to be written by the winners. We lost the Cold War in 1991 and, naturally, the winner began reformatting the story for himself. Here we have what we have, said, in particular, in the publication.The history in the independent powers is written not by the victors, but by petty thieves, because the elites in these countries did not defeat anyone, but came to the battlefield and began to engage in looting. They really don't need it.
    1. Zybrov
      +9
      3 January 2013 13: 34
      I don’t know how YOU and WE didn’t lose anything, we were betrayed, and that’s it, we all survived in the 90s, we studied, sat on potatoes and sauerkraut, But we didn’t dump them over the hill like some, as I said to von Clausewitz, defeat Russians always come back ........
      1. +3
        3 January 2013 13: 45
        With the defeat, the Russians always return ........

        with a club and from the whole wide Slavic soul, the kherachat of the adversaries to the right and left.
  15. +11
    3 January 2013 13: 26
    Something these high-born friendly crowds bring to Russia to earn money, except for the Baltic states, the Germans were always slaves. And NOBODY didn’t build a paradise for themselves, and most of those who lived under the Union remember that time with longing. Young generations have nothing to compare with, and those in power make a fool of their heads in order to preserve their piece of the pie, which was grabbed after the partition.
  16. +1
    3 January 2013 13: 28
    History is a way of searching and comprehending the truth only for a limited circle. For society and politicians, history is the main instrument of work and manipulation of identity - both one's own and another's.
    Is Russian post-Soviet history not sick of the same ????
    Take, for example, the derogation and explicit falsification of the Soviet period of history.
    New "historians" build new chronology. We agreed that the territory of Egypt is nothing more than a large cemetery of Russian princes and other worthy people.
    The new elites do not need history as a science, they need a prostitute serving momentary interests.
  17. +5
    3 January 2013 13: 34
    You just need to return these highly cultural representatives of the most ancient peoples to their homeland, otherwise they are humiliated here and build buildings for the invaders, sweep the streets, trade in markets, earn money from the oppressors and colonialists, and they support families with this money. Poor things, I feel sorry for them.
    In general, all this is from the category "If there is no water in the tap, the Jews drank water" only the Jews are replaced by Russians.
  18. escobar
    +9
    3 January 2013 13: 35
    I was looking at the transfer of the UT-1 the other day. So there, our grief, self-taught historians even reached the point that all the Roman gods, and in particular Zeus, would be remembered on Crimean land earlier than in the Roman Empire itself. And that the Great Rome borrowed culture, art from Ukraine in fact. And the faces are so serious, but dibilovatye. Sick people ... in the madhouse summons.
  19. -24
    3 January 2013 13: 37
    Yeah, it was funny for my parents to read Soviet books that we were brothers with Armenians, and Stepan Shaumyan, an Armenian, promoted the ideas of communism with the desire of the Azerbaijani people. This is why the Soviet and Russian books are a standard of justice, and our books are a lie. only ours are also Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Tajiks, Slavs, Ukrainians, Moldovans. They all lie completely. And note the correct books only from Belarusians (these are the same Russians themselves, just as Lukashenko said with a quality mark) and Armenia which itself It owes its existence to the Russian Federation and for at least 49 years the Russian Federation has committed itself to protecting the entire air and land space of Armenia around the entire perimeter, although they believe Lenin betrayed them in collusion with Ataturk, but they will not officially write this when they are totally dependent on the Russian Federation and lack of souls.
    1. Ingvald_Bueny
      +8
      3 January 2013 14: 37
      So you think that Russia is "the root of all ills"? But let many of your compatriots live in Russia, and for some reason they do not plan to leave for their homeland in Azerbaijan, it means that they are not so bad with us, especially since they have a stable income here.
      1. -6
        3 January 2013 15: 26
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        So you think that Russia is "the root of all ills"?

        Not all. Only the Armenian, which is still supported. Do not be, with all hands for the Russian Federation. On the other hand, our books do not write a complete lie. What is Azerbaijan voluntarily part of the Russian Federation? 2 wars between Russia and Persia for Azerbaijan we are not should write? force entry into the Soviet Union should we be silent? January 20, when Soviet tanks crushed civilians, should we say that this wasn’t? Yes, in any books there are distortions, but there are indisputable facts.

        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        But let many of your compatriots live in Russia, and for some reason they do not plan to go to their homeland in Azerbaijan, it means that they are not so bad with us, especially since they have a stable income here.


        many are already citizens of Russia, including 90 percent of my relatives. but how it is connected with books. they write what was. they do not write that it is bad in Russia.
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +4
          3 January 2013 16: 42
          Quote: Yeraz
          Not all. Only the Armenian, which is still supported. Do not be, with all hands for the Russian Federation. On the other hand, our books do not write a complete lie. What is Azerbaijan voluntarily part of the Russian Federation? 2 wars between Russia and Persia for Azerbaijan we are not should write? force entry into the Soviet Union should we be silent? January 20, when Soviet tanks crushed civilians, should we say that this wasn’t? Yes, in any books there are distortions, but there are indisputable facts.

          Azerbaijan has never been part of the Russian Federation.
          The Russian Empire fought not for the Baku region with Persia, but for its independence, since the access of Persia to the North Caucasus and the Black Sea region represented a center of instability for the Russian Empire. It is unlikely that Azerbaijanis in the Persian Empire would be better than in the Russian, where they had the status of free citizens and no one encroached on their property. The Persians had a special conversation with enslaved peoples at that time.
          Azerbaijan was a part of the USSR within the framework of the ZSFSR; no one forcibly drove it there.
          In the Karabakh conflict during the late USSR, the Soviet Army and the Government of the USSR sided with the Azerbaijan SSR against the Armenian "separatists". And the bulk of Soviet weapons after the self-dissolution of the Soviet Union in the Transcaucasus went to the Azerbaijani military, not the Armenian.

          Quote: Yeraz
          many are already citizens of Russia, including 90 percent of my relatives. but how it is connected with books. they write what was. they do not write that it is bad in Russia.

          It just demonstrates the attitude of the official policy of Azerbaijan towards Russia and the Russian People. After all, the Azerbaijani authorities should understand that friendly relations cannot be established with such an attitude.
          1. -5
            3 January 2013 18: 08
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Azerbaijan has never been part of the Russian Federation.

            I know. For us there is no difference it was called the Russian Empire before, then the USSR, the essence did not change.

            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            The Russian Empire fought not for the Baku region with Persia, but for its independence

            Yeah, I know these tales were also taught to me at a school in St. Petersburg. The teacher told me when Peter 1’s campaign was due to the fact that they wanted to save us from the TURKS !!! it’s necessary to freeze this. Well, if it would be before the 16th century. The war with the Turks was in the 16th century. Therefore, your books also treat you well.
            The difference is that you do not accept the alternative, look for enemies everywhere. We have a lot of information in the book about the wars with the Turks about those cruelties and the same. But we are not offended by each other, although we are much closer to each other. But you are immediately offended.
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Azerbaijan was a part of the USSR within the framework of the ZSFSR; no one forcibly drove it there.


            yeah, as a joke they created ADRs for 1 year, and then they dissolved it and Muslim Azerbaijan chose atheistic communism, and this is why the ideologists turned out to be either Armenians or Jews and Azerbaijanis on their fingers.

            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            In the Karabakh conflict during the late USSR, the Soviet Army and the Government of the USSR sided with the Azerbaijan SSR against the Armenian "separatists". And the bulk of Soviet weapons after the self-dissolution of the Soviet Union in the Transcaucasus went to the Azerbaijani military, not the Armenian.


            In the beginning there was a period, but then comprehensive assistance to the Armenians. And do not say the opposite. We also remembered the threats of Grachev very well.

            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            It just demonstrates the attitude of the official policy of Azerbaijan towards Russia and the Russian People. After all, the Azerbaijani authorities should understand that friendly relations cannot be established with such an attitude.


            Yes, with the support that you give the Armenians the attitude of the authorities towards you is ideal !!! Give power to the people, this attitude would be at zero or sharply negative. The Russian Federation, if you would at least keep neutrality in the Karabakh conflict, would be friendship, but you support our enemy Are you offended by us ?? How do you imagine this ??
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +4
              3 January 2013 20: 17
              So you say that Russia is your enemy? At the same time, you yourself live in the Russian Federation, it seems that you studied at the expense of the Russian budget and work in Russia, thereby the Russian Federation provided you. Do you know what it's called?
              P / S The last war of the Russian Empire with the Ottoman Empire was at the beginning of the XNUMXth century as part of the WWII (one of the events of that time was the massive genocide of Armenians organized by the Port authorities). Before that, there were at least two wars between them in the XNUMXth century. They wanted to save the Azerbaijanis not from the Turks, but from the Persians, who claimed all of Transcaucasia. So your teacher from St. Petersburg was right in his own way.
            2. SASCHAmIXEEW
              0
              4 January 2013 15: 20
              Firstly, they carry water to those who are offended, secondly, do not answer for all your people, and even if the Russian people are offended, they will throw all the Azeris out of RUSSIA and go sell yourself, fewer people have more oxygen, for too long you have the patience of the Russians, do not be dashing while quiet! Centuries lived without you and will continue to live! And I remember Sumgait!
    2. Yarbay
      -7
      3 January 2013 19: 22
      Quote: Yeraz
      Well, only ours are still Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Tajiks, Slavs, Ukrainians, Moldovans. They all lie.

      The fact is that the article was written by the Armenian and on the Regnum, the quoted quotes from textbooks in Azerbaijan are mostly lies or taken out of context !!
      In Armenia itself, all Russian schools are closed and the Russian language is not taught!
      Moreover, in the historical books it is stated that almost Adam was an Armenian!
      Article minus big!
      It has no logical, no sociological or any other value!
      As for Shaumyan, after the exhumation of 26 Baku commissars and their reburial, his body and the body of the Amiryan brothers were not buried!
      The coffins were empty !!
      Shaumyan apparently lived in India and died there too !!
      There are recollections of Rashid Beybutov about showing him in the 80s the grave of Shaumyan in India, which he videotaped and handed over to Gorbachev in the late 80s, after which he was afraid for his life, apparently not in vain, did not live long after that!
      1. -5
        3 January 2013 19: 35
        Quote: Yarbay
        The fact is that the article was written by the Armenian and on the Regnum, the quoted quotes from textbooks in Azerbaijan are mostly lies or taken out of context !!

        this is understandable. But people in a stranger's eye see a mote, but they don’t notice the logs. I studied in Russia and the whole Russian history consists that Russia did not capture, it saved and brought good. And people discuss zombie and falsification from other countries and they condemn unjustifiably, but they don’t want to notice their falsifications. Why are there more Abkhazians in Turkey than in Abkhazia itself? Why about a million North Caucasians in Turkey. Why has the Caucasus not been subordinate to Russia for 200 years and still have problems with this region ?? Maybe because they consider what captured them ??
        And this Soviet Union was idealized to the limit, it was a typical empire disguised as a state of equals. Everyone was drafted into the army, but for some reason Muslims always turned up in baht. Thank Heydar Aliyev ensured that some number of Azerbaijanis went through the war in Afghanistan otherwise in Karabakh there would not be that scanty number of specialists who know military affairs.
        1. Yarbay
          -5
          3 January 2013 20: 02
          Quote: Yeraz
          I studied in Russia and the whole Russian history consists that Russia did not capture, it saved and brought good

          This is understandable !!
          So everywhere in English textbooks they write exactly the same about their conquests!
          It was just a little condemned during the USSR, but it was also written about
          Quote: Yeraz
          Everyone was drafted into the army, but for some reason Muslims found themselves in the ranks of baht always.
          Well, not always, but in percentage terms a little more!
          My close relatives were in the air defense, in the tank troops and motorized rifle units! In principle, there is a great deal of truth in your words!
          Quote: Yeraz
          Fortunately, Heydar Aliyev ensured that in Afghanistan a certain number of Azerbaijanis went through the war, otherwise in Karabakh there would not be that scanty number of specialists who know military affairs.

          I agree that the Nakhchivan school was created at that time, almost all of the current generals were cadets there!
          1. Misantrop
            +5
            3 January 2013 20: 24
            Quote: Yarbay
            So everywhere in English textbooks they write exactly the same about their conquests!
            The paper will endure. That's just to find now in England at least one English is not realistic. They are not, destroyed. And in Prussia, the Prussians remained, at least one? From the Indians of North America, now there are only miserable remnants, it is good if out of hundreds of tribes, representatives of at least several of the largest remain. Is the same picture in Russia, or is it still different?
        2. Misantrop
          +11
          3 January 2013 20: 16
          Quote: Yeraz
          Why did the Caucasus not submit to Russia for 200 years and still have problems with this region ?? Maybe because they believe that they were captured ??

          That’s not why. They were simply offended to the depths of their souls - they were forbidden to do traditional things: go on raids and sell slaves. Terrible tyranny, right?
          Quote: Yeraz
          Everyone was drafted into the army, but for some reason Muslims found themselves in the ranks of baht always.

          And we do not take into account the problems with mastering not the simplest technique? With the reading and memorization of instructions, duties according to combat schedules, etc. I had one guy from the village. Kokpekty Kokpekty area. For three years of service in the crew he managed to learn ... his book "Battle number". I learned it by heart, but ... I could not explain what exactly is written on these pages. It is also fortunate that at that time (towards the end of his service) we only took the ship from the plant, because we would leave it alone on watch for the maintenance of nuclear installations ... wassat The army is not a primary school, the fleet with aviation is even more so. Competent specialists everywhere demanded, regardless of nationality (we have the head of the radio engineering service by nationality was Marie), but there’s no one and then no one to train the sailor in reading and writing
          1. -6
            3 January 2013 20: 29
            Quote: Misantrop
            That’s not why. They were simply offended to the depths of their souls - they were forbidden to do traditional things: go on raids and sell slaves. Terrible tyranny, right?

            Yes, this is a favorite excuse, but you would look prettier and more dignified if you just committed punitive operations, rather than capture, and then tried for centuries to hold back. 2-3 brutal punitive operations with genocide if they raided (which they don’t agree with, okay) and all the problem is solved.
            Quote: Misantrop
            Do we not take into account the problems with mastering not the simplest technology?

            No, we do not take into account.
            1 my uncle, professor, doctor of sciences, doctor, but he ended up in the construction battalion, my aunt’s husband graduated from mathematics with honors from the Moscow State University and also in the construction battalion, cousin European champion is already from independent Azerbaijan and also in the construction battalion. All the rest are strong guys who also grew up in the mountains ( Incidentally, Auger educated) stronger than other inhabitants of the plains, and even more so the inhabitants of cities, all the same in construction battalions.
            That Tsarist Russia did not appeal to them en masse, and they were very strong: the example of the Wild Division, that the Union, but then they were supposedly equal, therefore they imitated the bulk of the construction battalion, a small part in some units.
            1. +11
              3 January 2013 20: 40
              Yeraz,
              Answer.
              1Your uncles, when called up, were not yet doctors of sciences and mathematicians, IMHO the construction battalion benefited them
              2Krepey guys, just needed in the construction battalion
              3The mentality of the mountaineers is such that even the doctors of the sciences stick out the ears of abrek laughing laughing laughing
              In short, how many wolves do not feed, donkey still x ... thicker
            2. Misantrop
              +4
              3 January 2013 21: 15
              Quote: Yeraz
              you would look prettier and more worthy if you just performed punitive operations

              Yeah, everybody always admires punishers, that’s right. wink The United States is doing just that now. Yugoslavia was smashed into the trash - and not captured. Libya - similarly. And, most importantly, in Libya, in Kosovo - quiet and smooth, no bandits, right?
            3. Ingvald_Bueny
              +7
              3 January 2013 21: 23
              Quote: Yeraz
              1 my uncle, professor, doctor of sciences, doctor, but he ended up in the construction battalion, my aunt’s husband graduated from mathematics with honors from the Moscow State University and also in the construction battalion, cousin European champion is already from independent Azerbaijan and also in the construction battalion. All the rest are strong guys who also grew up in the mountains ( Incidentally, Auger educated) stronger than other inhabitants of the plains, and even more so the inhabitants of cities, all the same in construction battalions.
              That Tsarist Russia did not appeal to them en masse, and they were very strong: the example of the Wild Division, that the Union, but then they were supposedly equal, therefore they imitated the bulk of the construction battalion, a small part in some units.

              How did your uncle get into the construction battalion? all the military departments were finished, and after high school they were immediately written off to the reserve. Your aunt’s husband wouldn’t have been taken to the building battalion with the Physics and Mathematics Department of Moscow State University, this is a guaranteed referral to the Strategic Missile Forces or Air Defense officer, regardless of nationality. Why your brother in independent Azerbaijan served in the construction battalion, this is clearly not a question for the Russian Federation.
              The fact that there were strong guys in the mountains is good, and no one argues with this, but after all, strong guys are also needed in engineering units, what do you want there citizens of any nationalities serve.
              The Wild Division is a military formation made up of Circassian highlanders; they really showed themselves well. Only here Azerbaijanis have nothing to do with the Circassians.
              P / S On the Plains, strong guys live like in cities, otherwise Russia would not have been without them.
              1. Yarbay
                -6
                4 January 2013 15: 08
                Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                The Wild Division is a military formation made up of Circassian highlanders; they really showed themselves well. Only here Azerbaijanis have nothing to do with the Circassians.

                You are deeply mistaken!
                Two so-called Tatar regiments from the Wild Division were formed in Azerbaijan and consisted entirely of Azerbaijanis!
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +2
                  4 January 2013 15: 44
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  You are deeply mistaken!
                  Two so-called Tatar regiments from the Wild Division were formed in Azerbaijan and consisted entirely of Azerbaijanis!

                  People tend to make mistakes, such is the nature of human thinking.
                  The 2nd brigade of the Caucasian native division had one Tatar regiment and one Chechen regiment. Moreover, the Tatar and the Azerbaijani are not the same thing. Correct if I am mistaken.
                  1. Yarbay
                    0
                    4 January 2013 16: 09
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    The XNUMXst brigade of the Caucasian native division had one Tatar regiment and one Chechen regiment. Moreover, the Tatar and the Azerbaijani are not the same thing. Correct if I am mistaken.

                    Dear in vain, you minusanuli me!
                    The fact is that at that time Azerbaijanis were called Tatars in the Russian Empire !! The regiment was formed in the city of Ganja and completely consisted of Azerbaijanis called Tatars !!
                    Yours!
                    1. Ingvald_Bueny
                      +1
                      4 January 2013 18: 14
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      Dear in vain, you minusanuli me!
                      The fact is that at that time Azerbaijanis were called Tatars in the Russian Empire !! The regiment was formed in the city of Ganja and completely consisted of Azerbaijanis called Tatars !!
                      Yours!

                      You are mistaken, I did not minus you. But even if I put you a minus (which I did not do) it is my right. And it does not concern the topic of discussion.
                      As regards the history of the Kavkaz division, I thank you for explaining the participation of your people in its composition. However, it was only one regiment, so it makes no sense to say that the division consisted entirely of Azerbaijanis. It was mainly made up of Circassians, i.e. peoples of the North Caucasus.
                      1. Yarbay
                        -1
                        5 January 2013 11: 20
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        However, it was only one regiment, so it makes no sense to say that the division was completely composed of Azerbaijanis

                        It was two regiments!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        It was mainly made up of Circassians, i.e. peoples of the North Caucasus.
                        Almost half were my compatriots!
                      2. Ingvald_Bueny
                        0
                        5 January 2013 12: 51
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        However, it was only one regiment, so it makes no sense to say that the division was completely composed of Azerbaijanis
                        It was two regiments!


                        In accordance with the order of Emperor Nicholas II on the creation of the Caucasian native cavalry division of August 23, 1914, the division was composed of three brigades of six Caucasian native horse regiments (each in 4 squadrons). The division included the following military units:
                        The 1st brigade consisted of the Kabardian cavalry regiment (consisting of Kabardins and Balkars) and the 2nd Dagestan cavalry regiment (consisting of Dagestanis).
                        The 2nd brigade consisted of the Tatar cavalry regiment (consisting of Azerbaijanis) and the Chechen equestrian regiment (consisting of Chechens).
                        The 3rd brigade consisted of the Circassian horse regiment (consisting of Circassians and Karachais) and the Ingush horse regiment (consisting of Ingush).
                        Ossetian foot brigade and the 8th Don Cossack artillery division were also given divisions.
                        Commanders of the Caucasian Native Division:
                        Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich - commander of the Caucasian native cavalry division at the front in Galicia during the First World War.
                        Prince Bagration, Dmitry Petrovich, Major General, from July 12, 1916, Lieutenant General. The division commander from February 20, 1916 to April 15, 1917 and from June 30 to August 27, 1917. From August 28 to September 2, 1917, the commander of the Caucasian native cavalry corps.
                        Polovtsov, Pyotr Aleksandrovich, lieutenant general - on August 23, 1914 he was appointed commander of the Tatar equestrian regiment of the Caucasian native equestrian division. Since February 25, 1916, the chief of staff of the Caucasian native equestrian division. On September 2, 1917 he was appointed commander of the Caucasian native horse corps.
                        Prince Gagarin, Alexander Vasilievich, Major General, commanded the division on 28.08. - 02.09.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX.
                        Prince (Persian) Feyzulla Mirza Kajar, Major General, commanded the 1st Caucasian Indigenous Equestrian Division from 30.09.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX.
                        By order of August 21, 1917, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of Infantry L. G. Kornilov, the Caucasian Indigenous Horse Division was reorganized into the Caucasian Indigenous Horse Corps. [3] For this purpose, the Dagestan and two Ossetian horse regiments were transferred to the division. After formation, the corps was to be sent to the Caucasus at the disposal of the commander of the Caucasian army. However, on September 2, in connection with the “Kornilov case”, by order of the Provisional Government, the commander of the Caucasian native cavalry corps, Lieutenant General Prince Bagration and the commander of the 1st Caucasian native cavalry division, Major General Prince Gagarin, were relieved of their posts. On the same day, by order of the Provisional Government, General P. A. Polovtsev was appointed commander of the Caucasian native cavalry corps. Major General Prince Feyzulla Mirza Kajar was appointed the head of the 1st Caucasian native cavalry division. The head of the 2nd Caucasian native cavalry division was Lieutenant General I.Z. Khoranov. [4] General Polovtsev managed to get from Kerensky that the previously adopted order to send the corps to the Caucasus was executed.
                        In late September - early October 1917, units and subunits of the corps were transferred to the Caucasus. The headquarters of the corps was in Vladikavkaz, and the headquarters of the 1st Caucasian native cavalry division in Pyatigorsk. By January 1918, the Caucasian native cavalry corps ceased to exist ...
            4. Yarbay
              +2
              3 January 2013 21: 28
              Quote: Yeraz
              ended up in the construction battalion

              It can be seen at that time there was an order that so many should serve there!
              Because I remember many Kazakhs served in the BB, in the convoy units !!
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                0
                5 January 2013 12: 52
                Quote: Yarbay
                Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                It was mainly made up of Circassians, i.e. peoples of the North Caucasus. Almost half were my compatriots!

                I agree with you, at that time our common fatherland was called the Russian Empire.

            5. Alexander 1958
              +12
              3 January 2013 23: 01
              Good afternoon!
              I want to add something to your criticism of RI and the USSR.
              You forgot to scold the Russians and the Soviets for the land on which industrial enterprises were built, which accounted for 80% of the oil equipment in the USSR. Of course, this is bad! There used to be bare earth. and then the Russian invaders came and built a devil-that .. Don’t have a place to walk!
              Alexander 1958
              1. Misantrop
                +10
                4 January 2013 00: 30
                Alexander, and still forgot. These vile invaders also forced them to study. So I would not know sheep grazing in the fresh air for up to 120 years and grief, but here breathe dust over books. And from this, they say, thoughts start in the head that gnaw through the brain gyrus wassat
              2. Yarbay
                -2
                4 January 2013 15: 21
                Quote: Alexander 1958
                You forgot to scold the Russians and the Soviets for the land on which industrial enterprises were built, which accounted for 80% of the oil equipment in the USSR.

                Yes, no one scolds, especially since it was made with money from the sale of our own oil !!!
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +3
                  4 January 2013 15: 36
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Yes, no one scolds, especially since it was made with money from the sale of our own oil !!!

                  Dear oil, it was not yours, but the entire Soviet People. Oil production and refining of oil products in the Baku region began in the Russian Empire, with the money of Russian industrialists, for example Alfred Nobil, and also with the money of the Russian Crown, oil producers were mainly from the internal regions of the Empire. Then, in the USSR, with the money of the Soviet treasury, it was continued in the 20-50s (with the opening of mines in the Siberian part of the RSFSR, it was reduced), but the percentage of its implementation immediately began to go to the budget of the Azerbaijan SSR, by decision of the Center of the Soviet Union.
                  You say "ours", but the same Baku was rebuilt in the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union, but Russia now does not claim to the Baku region, and even in 1991 recognized the independence of the Azerbaijan SSR. Soviet weapons, although it could bring all this to the inner territory of the RSFSR.
                  So why do you call the Russians "occupiers" and "invaders"? This is not friendly. Or maybe you were never our friends?
                  1. Yarbay
                    -2
                    4 January 2013 17: 10
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Dear oil, it was not yours, but the entire Soviet People. Oil production and refining of oil products in the Baku region began in the Russian Empire, with the money of Russian industrialists, for example Alfred Nobil, and also with the money of the Russian Crown, oil producers were mainly from the internal regions of the Empire.

                    Dear again mistaken !!
                    The oil was ours and the refining started with the money of the Azerbaijani industrialists too !! Asadullaevs, Tagiyevs, Nagiyevs Mukhtarov, etc. were the main owners of oil fields !!
                    These are your thoughts!
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    So why do you call the Russians "occupiers" and "invaders"?

                    Before the USSR, Russia was occupied, it was not offensive for you! In principle, when the USSR was created, agreements were violated and hundreds of people of officers and intelligentsia were shot!
                    In the 90th year, peaceful people were killed, but despite this, in 91 the majority supported the USSR, but it was Russia that did not want this, because Yeltsin really wanted to become president !!
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    This is not friendly.

                    And what have you done in a friendly way and why are you now standing in a wronged position?
                    And when were you friends to us ??
                    The politicians of Rosiii always acted in the interests of themselves personally !! Only in the USSR before Gorbachev was normal leadership !!
                    It's my opinion!!

                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    She closed her eyes to the expulsion of Russians from Azerbaijan,

                    This is your speculation !!!
                    1. Ingvald_Bueny
                      +2
                      4 January 2013 18: 04
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      Dear again mistaken !!
                      The oil was ours and the refining started with the money of the Azerbaijani industrialists too !! Asadullaevs, Tagiyevs, Nagiyevs Mukhtarov, etc. were the main owners of oil fields !!
                      These are your thoughts!

                      That is, the Russian "occupiers" allowed local industrialists to extract oil in their "colony"? Paradox. It's strange for the invaders. In British India, all industry was in the hands of the British Crown.
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      Before the USSR, Russia was occupied, it was not offensive for you! In principle, when the USSR was created, agreements were violated and hundreds of people of officers and intelligentsia were shot!
                      In the 90th year, peaceful people were killed, but despite this, in 91 the majority supported the USSR, but it was Russia that did not want this, because Yeltsin really wanted to become president !!

                      These strange Russians are "occupiers". They allowed the "enslaved" Azerbaijanis to enter their universities, subsidized the Baku region, and then the Azerbaijan SSR. Russian "exploiters" built infrastructure in Azerbaijan, equated "enslaved" in rights with "enslavers".
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      And what have you done in a friendly way and why are you now standing in a wronged position?
                      And when were you friends to us ??
                      The politicians of Rosiii always acted in the interests of themselves personally !! Only in the USSR before Gorbachev was normal leadership !!
                      It's my opinion!!

                      What did the RSFSR do to you in a friendly way? The Russian Federation recognized the independence of your country. Is this not enough? You were protected from the genocide by the Persians. And is this not enough? You did not answer for the Russian genocide in Baku in 1991. What did they do to your compatriot, why did they expel them?
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      This is your speculation !!!

                      According to the report of the chairman of the Russian community of Azerbaijan, Mikhail Zabelin, for the year 2004 about 168 thousand Russians remained in the country, while as of January 1979, 476, about 22 thousand citizens of Russian nationality lived in Azerbaijan, in 70 regions of the republic there were about 1989 Russian settlements and settlements. In 392, 1999 thousand Russians lived in Azerbaijan (not counting other Russian-speakers), in 176 - XNUMX thousand ...
                      However, for some reason, the number of Azerbaijanis in the Russian Federation has only increased. So you yourself must offer the Russians friendship and seek it. Perhaps they will forgive the evil that caused them.
                      1. Yarbay
                        -2
                        4 January 2013 19: 25
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        ny.This is not enough? You were protected from the genocide by the Persians.

                        But they helped the Armenians in 1905 and on March 31, 1918 to commit genocide over us !! They overpowered Armenians in our territories and constantly provoked them to perform and helped them !! For this, should we be thankful to your politicians ??
                        20 million Azerbaijanis live in Persia and no genocide happened !!

                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        So you yourself must offer the Russians friendship and seek it.

                        Why on earth do you have megalomania, and not imperial thinking, to which I respect!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Perhaps they will forgive the evil that caused them.

                        So far, EVIL has been towards my people by the political leaders of your country !!
                        And if they apologize, maybe we will forgive !!
                      2. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +2
                        4 January 2013 19: 54
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        But they helped the Armenians in 1905 and on March 31, 1918 to commit genocide over us !! They overpowered Armenians in our territories and constantly provoked them to perform and helped them !! For this, should we be thankful to your politicians ??
                        20 million Azerbaijanis live in Persia and no genocide happened !!

                        You can read more on this.
                        Maybe because Persia has been a vassal of the Russian Empire since the beginning of the 18th century, that's why it didn't happen? For example, the Armenians in Turkey were unlucky; at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, during WWI, they were genocidal by the "brilliant" Ottomans.
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Why on earth do you have megalomania, and not imperial thinking, to which I respect!

                        Dear, you are not my psychiatrist to talk about my mania. As for imperial thinking, what does it have to do with it?
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        So far, EVIL has been towards my people by the political leaders of your country !!
                        And if they apologize, maybe we will forgive !!

                        Write about it officially to our polit. leadership.
                  2. Beck
                    -1
                    5 January 2013 11: 24
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Dear oil, it was not yours, but the entire Soviet People.


                    Exactly. The essence of cheers-patriotism. Oil means not Azerbaijani, but the entire Soviet people. But how, to build something in a republic, for the needs of the entire USSR, so only the Russian people built. And all the other peoples of the USSR simply looked present.

                    Bread on the virgin lands is the property of the entire Soviet people and with this I completely agree. AND elevation virgin lands, so this is only the Russian people. And with this I strongly disagree. As if there were no Ukrainians, Belorussians, Tatars, Kazakh peoples and Kazakhs among the virgin lands.

                    Sokolovo-Sarbaiskoye iron ore deposit, then only Russians built, and who consumed it? Only Kazakhs or what? Yes, all this ore went to Chelyabinsk metallurgical plants. By cheers-patriotic to the Russian plants went.
                    1. Ingvald_Bueny
                      +2
                      5 January 2013 12: 58
                      Quote: Beck
                      Exactly. The essence of cheers-patriotism. Oil means not Azerbaijani, but the entire Soviet people. But how, to build something in a republic, for the needs of the entire USSR, so only the Russian people built. And all the other peoples of the USSR simply looked present.

                      Bread on the virgin lands is the property of the entire Soviet people and with this I completely agree. And the virgin land raising is only the Russian people. And with this I strongly disagree. As if there were no Ukrainians, Belorussians, Tatars, Kazakh peoples and Kazakhs among the virgin lands.

                      Sokolovo-Sarbaiskoye iron ore deposit, then only Russians built, and who consumed it? Only Kazakhs or what? Yes, all this ore went to Chelyabinsk metallurgical plants. By cheers-patriotic to the Russian plants went.

                      I wrote the whole Soviet people, the rest you have come up with. Or don’t you know that there was such a supranational community? If not, it’s your problem, ask the older generation about it, if they didn’t tell you about it at school.
                2. Alexander 1958
                  +1
                  7 January 2013 01: 41
                  For yarbay

                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Yes, no one scolds, especially since it was made with money from the sale of our own oil

                  Good afternoon! Somehow not convincing ... The Baku oil fields worked before the revolution, and I did not hear something. that in tsarist times it was just as good to live on the territory of modern Azerbaijan as in Soviet times. And oil was "yours" just like the Russian oil produced in Russia after perestroika, when it was pumped for free from the Russian subsoil and Russia still remained and owed it. Moreover, the money for oil floated to the Rothschilds, and not to the Azerbaijanis who produced it. Although, if you are dearer than the Rothschilds ...,
                  Alexander 1958
            6. +3
              4 January 2013 01: 08
              Quote: Yeraz
              European cousin is already from independent Azerbaijan and also in the construction battalion.

              This is what side to Russia?
        3. Ingvald_Bueny
          +7
          3 January 2013 20: 21
          Kindly answer how many Russians live in Azerbaijan after the dissolution of the USSR?
          1. Yarbay
            -8
            4 January 2013 04: 26
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Kindly answer how many Russians live in Azerbaijan after the dissolution of the USSR?

            Almost as much as during the USSR !!
            Not much less!
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              0
              4 January 2013 14: 04
              Quote: Yarbay
              Almost as much as during the USSR !!
              Not much less!

              The question was not for you, but for your compatriot. More precisely, you can give a number (number).
            2. Ingvald_Bueny
              +2
              4 January 2013 14: 08
              Quote: Yarbay
              Almost as much as during the USSR !!
              Not much less!


              The question was not for you, but for your compatriot who lives in Russia and enjoys its benefits, and instead of respect, lets put it mildly to say unfriendly attacks in her direction.
              More precisely, you can give a number (digit).
              1. Yarbay
                +1
                4 January 2013 15: 19
                Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                who lives in Russia and enjoys its benefits, and instead of respect, lets put it mildly unfriendly attacks in her direction.

                What attacks do I not understand ??
                He wrote that Russian imeria was invasive and caused pain and suffering to many peoples, and for some, complete destruction is a fact and there is no escape from it !!
                What are you offended as children and minus !!
                And he writes correctly, they say they saved people like others from others — it's ridiculous !!
                Yes, imperial politics was predatory, but there was some progress as a result of the politics of those times !!
                You know, some of you have such an attitude that like all nations should blogot you before the end of centuries for winning them and doing everyone a favor !! If I were a Russian I would be a supporter of the empire, that's fine !! But you don’t have to do anyone a favor and tell tales about the human face of the Russian empire !!
                He not only takes advantage of his benefits, but also pays taxes, boosts the economy and creates jobs!
                Do not confuse respect with worship and groveling!
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +1
                  4 January 2013 18: 08
                  Quote: Yarbay

                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  who lives in Russia and enjoys its benefits, and instead of respect, lets put it mildly unfriendly attacks in her direction.
                  What attacks do I not understand ??
                  He wrote that Russian imeria was invasive and caused pain and suffering to many peoples, and for some, complete destruction is a fact and there is no escape from it !!
                  What are you offended as children and minus !!
                  And he writes correctly, they say they saved people like others from others — it's ridiculous !!
                  Yes, imperial politics was predatory, but there was some progress as a result of the politics of those times !!
                  You know, some of you have such an attitude that like all nations should blogot you before the end of centuries for winning them and doing everyone a favor !! If I were a Russian I would be a supporter of the empire, that's fine !! But you don’t have to do anyone a favor and tell tales about the human face of the Russian empire !!
                  He not only takes advantage of his benefits, but also pays taxes, boosts the economy and creates jobs!
                  Do not confuse respect with worship and groveling!


                  Dear interlocutor, if someone does not like the Russian Federation, let him act like Gerard Depardieu. No one will blame him for this.
                  Kindly answer how many Russians live in Azerbaijan after the collapse of the USSR and in what areas, if it does not bother you.
                  1. Yarbay
                    0
                    4 January 2013 19: 00
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Dear interlocutor, if someone does not like the Russian Federation, let him act like Gerard Depardieu. No one will blame him for this.

                    My dear man !!
                    What does it mean that someone does not like the Russian Federation ??
                    Whoever doesn’t like those probably do not live, there’s a conversation about historical events !!
                    Why get in the pose of the offended !!? I do not like the politician of Russia, but this does not mean that I do not like Russia and the Russian people !! Do not confuse the concept!
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Kindly answer how many Russians live in Azerbaijan after the collapse of the USSR and in what areas, if it does not bother you.

                    How many Russians I don’t know, but there are a lot of Russians, in Baku, in Sumgait, in the Lankaran district, in the Ismaili district, in Shemakhi, in Ganja, etc., etc. !!
                    1. Ingvald_Bueny
                      +2
                      4 January 2013 19: 24
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      My dear man !!
                      What does it mean that someone does not like the Russian Federation ??
                      Whoever doesn’t like those probably do not live, there’s a conversation about historical events !!
                      Why get in the pose of the offended !!? I do not like the politician of Russia, but this does not mean that I do not like Russia and the Russian people !! Do not confuse the concept!

                      You have a strange love for Russia. More like unfriendly demarches.
                      As for historical events, you interpret them in your own way, others in your own way. However, it is one thing when a person lives in his own country and think that another is its enemy and occupant; it is another thing when he comes with such thoughts to this "occupying" country, receives citizenship, work, etc. in absentia, he hates the country and the people to which he came. This does not concern you personally. It's just like a person from another country will go to build a business in your country and talk about past grievances, and not fictional ones. Or invent some grievances.
                      The answer please, you will like it, how will you relate to it?


                      Quote: Yarbay
                      How many Russians I don’t know, but there are a lot of Russians, in Baku, in Sumgait, in the Lankaran district, in the Ismaili district, in Shemakhi, in Ganja, etc., etc. !!

                      "A lot" is a metaphor, and 100 people can be a lot in one house, in the aisles of the region you will understand a little.
                      1. Yarbay
                        0
                        4 January 2013 19: 41
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        "A lot" is a metaphor, and 100 people can be a lot in one house, in the aisles of the region you will understand a little.

                        According to the latest census data, in my memory more than 200 thousand is not enough ??
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        You have a strange love for Russia. More like unfriendly demarches.

                        Nothing strange, I don’t like Russian politics, in particular with regard to my country, but I have many friends, acquaintances and Russian comrades, including in Russia, and I don’t confuse them with politicians !! If Yuri Kovalev (Azerbaijani hero) made Russian for my country more than I (died), how can I not like Russians ?? and there were many such guys!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        It’s just like a person from another country will go to build a business in your country and will talk there about past grievances, and non-fictitious ones. Or invent some insults.
                        The answer please, you will like it, how will you relate to it?

                        I did not understand the question!
                      2. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        4 January 2013 19: 47
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        It’s just like a person from another country will go to build a business in your country and will talk there about past grievances, and non-fictitious ones. Or invent some insults.
                        The answer please, you will like it, how will you relate to it?
                        I did not understand the question!

                        Question: What is your attitude towards a foreigner who lives in your country, has received citizenship, works but sets out unfriendly thoughts about her people and her people?
                      3. Yarbay
                        0
                        4 January 2013 20: 00
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Question: What is your attitude towards a foreigner who lives in your country, has received citizenship, works but sets out unfriendly thoughts about her people and her people?

                        Watching what you mean by the question * unfriendly thoughts *, if he speaks badly about the population, in particular about Russians as a nation and people, then I put it mildly badly!
                        But if he has his own opinion about Russian politics and historical events, then this is his right, especially in the matter, you emphasized that he is a citizen !!
                        Are there really few Russians who also think and have similar views !?
                      4. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        4 January 2013 20: 10
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Watching what you mean by the question * unfriendly thoughts *, if he speaks badly about the population, in particular about Russians as a nation and people, then I put it mildly badly!
                        But if he has his own opinion about Russian politics and historical events, then this is his right, especially in the matter, you emphasized that he is a citizen !!
                        Are there really few Russians who also think and have similar views !?

                        Russians have nothing to do with it. This means, for example, an Englishman who came to Azerbaijan for example and speaks unfriendly of him. Your attitude towards him.
                      5. Yarbay
                        0
                        4 January 2013 20: 16
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        . This refers, for example, to an Englishman who came to Azerbaijan for example and speaks unfriendly of him. Your attitude towards him

                        What are unfriendly comments, give an example ??
                        I answered in detail your question, you wrote a citizen before that, and you have citizens of many nationalities !!
                        Give an example of an unfriendly recall !!
                      6. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        4 January 2013 22: 58
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        What are unfriendly comments, give an example ??
                        I answered in detail your question, you wrote a citizen before that, and you have citizens of many nationalities !!
                        Give an example of an unfriendly recall !!

                        Example please: An Englishman tells you that you (for example) oppress the love of the Kurds (for example), do not give them independence, seize their land, and also (for example) tells you that Karabakh is the original Armenian region and you are in Antiquities captured. At the same time, the Englishman has business in your country and even received three times citizenship (for example) in order to overcome the tax burden. How will you feel about him after that?
                      7. Yarbay
                        -1
                        5 January 2013 09: 03
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The Englishman tells you that you (for example) oppress the love of the Kurds (for example), do not give them independence, seized their land, and also (for example) tells you that Karabakh is the original Armenian region and you seized it in ancient times.

                        In my memory it was !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        At the same time, an Englishman has a business in your country and even received three citizenship in it (for example) to overcome the tax burden
                        This is an incorrect example in Azerbaijan there is no dual citizenship institution, that is, it is impossible by constitution !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        How will you feel after this?

                        Well, this is his opinion, I will try to convince him that he is wrong by presenting arguments and facts, but again I emphasize that your example is unreal !!
                        Understand that any person has the right to their views and opinions in politics and historical events, you can’t take this as insults to the country and the people — this is stupid !! Another thing is you present him with the facts, argue his views, and then he will rest against it is clear that the person is inadequate !!
                        Another question is to insult the people, the nation, living on the territory of this country is mean!
                      8. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        5 January 2013 13: 02
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The Englishman tells you that you (for example) oppress the love of the Kurds (for example), do not give them independence, seized their land, and also (for example) tells you that Karabakh is the original Armenian region and you seized it in ancient times.
                        In my memory it was !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Moreover, an Englishman has business in your country and even received three times citizenship (for example) in order to overcome the tax burden. This is an incorrect example in Azerbaijan, there is no institution of dual citizenship, that is, it is impossible by constitution !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        How will you feel after this?
                        Well, this is his opinion, I will try to convince him that he is wrong by presenting arguments and facts, but again I emphasize that your example is unreal !!
                        Understand that any person has the right to their views and opinions in politics and historical events, you can’t take this as insults to the country and the people — this is stupid !! Another thing is you present him with the facts, argue his views, and then he will rest against it is clear that the person is inadequate !!
                        Another question is to insult the people, the nation, living on the territory of this country is mean!

                        Tell me, in your opinion, what needs to be done (by the measures provided by law) for your country (its legislation) as an example to those who act vilely (that is, insult a nation while living in your country)?
                      9. Ura-patriot
                        0
                        4 January 2013 20: 10
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny

                        Question: What is your attitude towards a foreigner who lives in your country, has received citizenship, works but sets out unfriendly thoughts about her people and her people?


                        Yes, you already leave the person alone, let the person who offended you is responsible for himself. Why is it that Yarbay should report for everyone. In any nation, that Azerbaijanian has offended and humiliated you, then go to him and give him a snout, no one has the right to humiliate one people before another. And then sit here polite of yourself build, sort it out like a man.

                        And in general, these offended Russians asked you to protect? no, then what is the conversation about.

                        Yarbay, do you have to sit here and report to him? At such a pace, it can make Hitler revive, and all Germany and the Germans will be responsible for Hitler. Georgians will begin to answer for Stalin’s miscalculations; all the Mongols will be responsible for Genghis Khan. Maybe he’ll find his grave, at least some business will do useful things.
                      10. Yarbay
                        -1
                        4 January 2013 20: 20
                        Quote: Ura-patriot
                        Yarbay, do you have to sit here and report to him?

                        I’ve been on this site for a long time !! It's not about the report!
                        You see here there are people who themselves do not know what they want, pay attention to any disagreement with the policy of Russia, now or 200 years ago it is perceived as an insult to the Russian people and Russia!
                        I just want to show this that it’s not so stupid !!
                        In no case do I want the interlocutor to personally accept this as an insult!
                        There are a lot of adequate and decent people, so I've been writing here for almost a year!
                      11. Ura-patriot
                        +2
                        4 January 2013 20: 38
                        Quote: Yarbay

                        I’ve been on this site for a long time !! It's not about the report!
                        You see here there are people who themselves do not know what they want, pay attention to any disagreement with the policy of Russia, now or 200 years ago it is perceived as an insult to the Russian people and Russia!
                        I just want to show this that it’s not so stupid !!
                        In no case do I want the interlocutor to personally accept this as an insult!
                        There are a lot of adequate and decent people, so I've been writing here for almost a year!


                        Well, it's up to you. I also understood that your interlocutor does not know what he wants. He walks around and beats his chest A kind of ur-patriot. Yesterday he cited the history of Kazakhstan, where it was written about the colonial policy of tsarism, so he generally said that the Kazakhs of "Type" are friendly, but in fact, all Russians were deprived of all rights. And today he writes:

                        Sorry, but in my opinion you are a Russophobe. We are Russians and Kazakhstanis, fraternal peoples, and people like you are splitting our friendship.
                        Brothers Kazakhstan and Russia wrote yesterday - he objected. And in addition, he accused Russophobia. It is necessary to distinguish the policy of tsarism and the Kazakhs distinguish it perfectly. We do not blame the Russians for the genocide of the Kazakhs, specifically Goloshchekin is guilty.
                        And Ingvald_Bueny now wants to be responsible for all the affairs of the Romanovs, Goloshchekins, Stalin, justifying them.
                        When Depardieu runs out of money and he becomes impoverished, his family, then all the French will answer because of him. Joke
                        I pass. I wish you all the best and your interlocutor
                      12. Yarbay
                        -2
                        4 January 2013 21: 49
                        Quote: Ura-patriot
                        I pass. I wish you all the best and your interlocutor

                        I understand you, but I think I need to express my position to the end whenever possible, which I tried to do !!
                        And I wish you good health, happiness and good luck !!
        4. +4
          4 January 2013 01: 38
          Quote: Yeraz
          Why did the Caucasus not submit to Russia for 200 years and still have problems with this region ?? Maybe because they believe that they were captured ??

          The Englishwoman is crap - that's why. Without Anglo-American money, the Caucasian war will end without any effort on our part.
      2. Orthodox warrior
        +6
        3 January 2013 21: 09
        I thought if I could wait for him or not. Wait ... Well, of course! What the Azeri people don’t like is what the Armenians write. And only they and no one else. And about Gabala. There, too, the Armenians are to blame. Yes, and at the same time Russian. Right?
        1. Yarbay
          +1
          4 January 2013 15: 30
          Quote: Orthodox warrior
          What the Azeri dislikes is that Armenians write

          because they write a lie !!
          Let them show the Armenian textbook in Russian !!
          Let Azerbaijani textbooks show where the quotes are from ??
          Mostly taken out of context or in general in textbooks there are no such suggestions !!
          and to such Rusers that you don’t like?
          Quote: Orthodox warrior
          And about Gabala. T

          What about Gabala ?? Russia refused to renew the contract is your problem!
          For 20 years, they used Gabala for almost free of charge, despite the fact that your country is officially a military ally of our enemy !!

          Quote: Orthodox warrior
          There, too, the Armenians are to blame. Yes, and at the same time Russian. Right?

          What do you think ???
          Are we to blame ??
          Whom you chose as your friends with those and dance !!
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +2
            4 January 2013 15: 51
            Quote: Yarbay
            What about Gabala ?? Russia refused to renew the contract is your problem!
            For 20 years, they used Gabala for almost free of charge, despite the fact that your country is officially a military ally of our enemy !!

            It’s strange with us that we pay Azerbaijan a rent for the Soviet Gabala radar station. It turns out this is not true? What have they spent my taxes on.

            Quote: Yarbay
            What do you think ???
            Are we to blame ??
            Whom you chose as your friends with those and dance !!

            Well, of course, the Russians are to blame for everything, they probably drove themselves out of Azerbaijan.
            1. Yarbay
              +1
              4 January 2013 16: 12
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              It’s strange with us that we pay Azerbaijan a rent for the Soviet Gabala radar station. It turns out this is not true?
              Payment was symbolic !!
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              of course the Russians are to blame for everything, they probably drove themselves out of Azerbaijan.

              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              of course the Russians are to blame for everything, they probably drove themselves out of Azerbaijan.

              Whom they kicked out, hundreds of thousands of Russians live in Azerbaijan and live very well !!
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +1
                4 January 2013 18: 26
                Quote: Yarbay
                Payment was symbolic !!

                You live smartly, just 14 million American dollars for you is purely symbolic. Well done.

                Quote: Yarbay
                Whom they kicked out, hundreds of thousands of Russians live in Azerbaijan and live very well !!

                "According to the report of the chairman of the Russian community of Azerbaijan, Mikhail Zabelin, about 2004 thousand Russians remained in the country in 168, while on January 1979, 476, about 22 thousand citizens of Russian nationality lived in Azerbaijan, there were about 70 Russian settlements in 1989 regions of the republic. and settlements. In 392, 1999 thousand Russians lived in Azerbaijan (not counting other Russian-speaking), in 176 - XNUMX thousand. "
                So I would like to hear from you how many Russians live in your country. Only those who live in Karabakh do not need to be taken into account, they have their own specifics.
                And another question, if you have hundreds of thousands of Russians, and there are no more than 170 thousand of them (as of 2004), then why do several million of your compatriots live in my country. We are "occupiers", why didn't we "enslave" them? What do you think. Your opinion is interesting.
                1. Yarbay
                  -1
                  4 January 2013 19: 12
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  1989, 392 lived in Azerbaijan

                  The fact that part of the population has left does not mean that they were expelled !!
                  There were thousands of people in the military family, people who, due to economic problems, left tens of thousands !!!
                  What have they kicked out ???
                  I know Zabelin personally and studied with his late daughter !!
                  Why did 170 thousand Russians remain in Azerbaijan?
                  Why did Zabelin stay?
                  How many Russians lived in Armenia and how many live now ??
                  What nations besides the Armenians themselves live in Armenia ??
                  Why is no one living?
                  If you find the answers it will be interesting to see !!))
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  about why there are several million of your compatriots living in my country.

                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  about why there are several million of your compatriots living in my country.
                  In my opinion, I already answered above !!
                  Why? This is a question for your leaders!
                  Hundreds of thousands of Russians, Avars, Lezghins, Ukrainians and other peoples live in my country !!
                  My compatriots are annoying you, act according to your own laws and drive someone away!
                  But I don’t need to make such a face that you having captured our territories in your time did us a favor!
                  Yours!
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +1
                    4 January 2013 19: 40
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    The fact that part of the population has left does not mean that they were expelled !!
                    There were thousands of people in the military family, people who, due to economic problems, left tens of thousands !!!
                    What have they kicked out ???


                    "... The weakening of state power and the disintegration of the country could not but become a catalyst for the hard-restrained aggression of Azerbaijani extremists. It was known that the lists of those doomed to be exterminated were prepared in advance. Armenians were on the first list, Russians were on the second. However, no timely action was not taken, and on January 13, the massacre began.

                    Here is a live picture from the ninetieth year of Baku. Bezhenka N.I. T-va: “Something unimaginable was going on there. Pogroms began on January 13, 1990, and my child, clinging to me, said: “Mom, they’ll kill us now!” And after the troops were sent in, the director of the school where I worked (this is not for you in the market!), An Azerbaijani woman, an intelligent woman, said: “Nothing, the troops will leave - and here in every tree there will be Russian in every tree.” They fled, leaving their apartments, property, furniture ... But I was born in Azerbaijan, and not only me: my grandmother was also born there! .. ”

                    In 1990, Baku was seething with hatred for the "Russian occupiers." The Highlanders created Azerbaijan for the Azerbaijanis: “a mob was raiding in the streets and in houses, and the protesters were walking with mocking slogans:“ Russians, don’t leave, we need slaves and prostitutes! ” How many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Russian people have survived dozens of pogroms and "Holocausts" to, in the end, make sure that there is no friendship of peoples?

                    “A woman from 3agorsk turned out to be a Russian refugee from Baku. Outwardly similar to a suddenly aged teenage girl, she is pale, her hands are shaking, she says, stuttering strongly - so that it is sometimes difficult to make out the speech. Its problem is simple: on which point of which of the legal documents should they be considered refugees? they are not registered, but they are not accepted to work without a residence permit (“the truth is, I work part time by sewing, my floors are in the porches”), they grant them refugee status, they don’t give the money laid down in this case. Galina Ilinichna began to explain ... The refugee took out a sheet of paper and a fountain pen, but could not write anything - her hands shook so that the pen left only jumping scribbles on the sheet. I took to help.

                    Having finished writing, he asked the refugee, nodding at his shaking hands: “Why is it so with you? ..” “Oh, now it’s almost gone! I’m better now and speak (And I, sinfully, thought there was nowhere worse!) But then, when they killed us ... "" Where did they kill you? " “Yes, in Baku, where we lived. They broke down the door, hit her husband on the head, he was lying unconscious all this time, they beat me. Then they screwed me to the bed and began to rape the oldest one - Olga, she was twelve years old. Six of us. It’s good that they’ve locked the four-year-old Marinka in the kitchen, I didn’t see this ... Then they beat everyone in the apartment, scooped out what was needed, untied me and told me to get out before evening. When we fled to the airport, a girl fell almost at my feet - they threw me from the upper floors from somewhere. Blast! Her blood splattered my entire dress ... They ran to the airport, and they say that there are no places in Moscow. On the third day, they just flew away. And all the time, like a flight to Moscow, they loaded cardboard boxes with flowers, dozens for each flight ... They scoffed at the airport, promised to kill everyone. That's when I started to stutter. I couldn’t speak at all. And now, ”something like a smile appeared on her lips,“ now I speak much better. And the hands are not shaking so much ... "

                    I didn't have the courage to ask her what happened to the eldest, who was twelve years old, on the day of the monstrous abuse, how four-year-old Marinka survived all this horror ... ""
                    http://novostink.ru/sng/25204-smi-genocid-russkih-v-azerbaydzhane-belaya-kniga-p
                    amyati.html # ixzz2H1cXHViz
                    1. Yarbay
                      0
                      4 January 2013 20: 09
                      Again, you cite a lie from Armenian sites that were not confirmed anywhere, in those days I was in Baku and I remember everything perfectly !!
                      Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                      Here is a live picture from nineties Baku

                      This is not a live picture but a lie !!
                      Why do 200 thousand Russian live here if it was so !!?
                      I wrote a lot about this in other topics and described what happened and how, I don’t want to repeat myself!
                      The link you provided is from an Armenian source, they riveted such a lie and riveted in the hundreds !!
                      Many Russian citizens of my country both then and now served and are serving our common country !!
                      1. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +2
                        4 January 2013 23: 28
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Again, you cite a lie from Armenian sites that were not confirmed anywhere, in those days I was in Baku and I remember everything perfectly !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Here is a live picture from nineties Baku
                        This is not a live picture but a lie !!
                        Why do 200 thousand Russian live here if it was so !!?
                        I wrote a lot about this in other topics and described what happened and how, I don’t want to repeat myself!
                        The link you provided is from an Armenian source, they riveted such a lie and riveted in the hundreds !!
                        Many Russian citizens of my country both then and now served and are serving our common country !!

                        The population of Russia in your country in 2009 is 119 (information from open sources).
                        "Between 1989 and 1999, the Russian population fell from 392 to 142, with 63% of the rest being women, and the average age of Russians rose to 41 (with the national average being 26-34)."
                        Those. it turns out that the Russian population in Azerbaijan is rapidly decreasing, and not being replenished.
                        Judging by your message, you are educated and well-mannered, so I wanted to hear your opinion. How do you think Azerbaijani citizens of Russian nationality feel when they are told that they are "invaders" and "occupants"?
                      2. Yarbay
                        0
                        5 January 2013 08: 54
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The number of Russian population


                        Surely again from Armenian open sources)))
                        In percentage terms, there are more Russians living in Azerbaijan than Azerbaijanis in Russia !!
                        You did not answer my question how many Russians live in Armenia ??
                        What nations besides Armenians live in Armenia ??
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Judging by your message, you are educated and well-mannered, so I wanted to hear your opinion. How do you think Azerbaijani citizens of Russian nationality feel when they are told that they are "invaders" and "occupants"?

                        Thank you for your assessment, but no one here calls living Russians invaders and invaders !! We both lived in the world and live helping each other! No need to compare the Baltic states with us, different mentality!
                        You see, no such thing !!
                        Here on the forum there is a citizen of my country of Russian nationality, ask him !!
                      3. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        5 January 2013 13: 32
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The number of Russian population

                        Surely again from Armenian open sources)))
                        In percentage terms, there are more Russians living in Azerbaijan than Azerbaijanis in Russia !!
                        You did not answer my question how many Russians live in Armenia ??
                        What nations besides Armenians live in Armenia ??

                        These are just words, we need facts. For example, the Russian population in Azerbaijan is 1,4% of the population (119 people). According to the census for 300, there are approximately 2002 thousand people in the Russian Federation. According to some reports, in 680, there are 2011 million people, of whom 3 million live in Moscow.
                        All this testifies to the fact that the Russian Government, which you criticize, created comfortable conditions for doing business for Azerbaijanis on the territory of the Russian Federation, and equated them in legal status with their citizens, also citizens of Russia of Azerbaijani nationality, have never been discriminated against in Russia. , and have a common legal status for all citizens of Russia. Thus, you have no reason to say that Russia is a "invader" or "occupier" country, and to condemn the decisions of our Government.

                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Thank you for your assessment, but no one here calls living Russians invaders and invaders !! We both lived in the world and live helping each other! No need to compare the Baltic states with us, different mentality!
                        You see, no such thing !!
                        Here on the forum there is a citizen of my country of Russian nationality, ask him !!

                        Perhaps such facts are simply not known to you. In any case, we are talking about the official position of your state in the field of education-history of relations with the Russian state. If it does not bother you, give an extensive comment on how you consider the author’s inaccuracies regarding this article regarding the teaching of the history of Azerbaijan in relations with the Russian state.
                      4. Yarbay
                        0
                        5 January 2013 19: 32
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        According to some reports, in 2011, there are 3 million people, of whom 1 million live in Moscow.

                        and how much is a percentage of 140 million ????
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Thus, you have no reason to say that Russia is a "invader" or "occupier" country, and to condemn the decisions of our Government.

                        Do you generally carefully read what I'm writing about ??
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The government that you criticize has created comfortable conditions for businessmen for Azerbaijanis in the Russian Federation
                        The same conditions are created for Russian and other nations. In Azerbaijan, nothing extraordinary!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Perhaps such facts are simply not known to you

                        How is it unknown ???
                        You see, you’re writing nonsense now !! I live in my own country and have not seen or heard that the rights of Russians in my country are infringed or called invaders and invaders, it is not necessary to pass off as wishful thinking!
                      5. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        5 January 2013 20: 16
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        and how much is a percentage of 140 million ????

                        You yourself count, I have no leisure.
                        Quote: Yarbay

                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Thus, you have no reason to say that Russia is a "invader" or "occupier" country, and to condemn the decisions of our Government.
                        Do you generally carefully read what I'm writing about ??

                        Read your message 19:45 for 4.12.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX. and previous posts where you wrote about the Russian Empire as "conquering".
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The government that you criticize has created comfortable conditions for businessmen for Azerbaijanis in the Russian Federation.
                        The same conditions are created for Russian and other nations. In Azerbaijan, nothing extraordinary!

                        If so, only glad. In any case, the question concerned your criticism of the Government of my country. Do you acknowledge that your criticism is unfounded?
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        How is it unknown ???
                        You see, you’re writing nonsense now !! I live in my own country and have not seen or heard that the rights of Russians in my country are infringed or called invaders and invaders, it is not necessary to pass off as wishful thinking!

                        I do not wish any people that their rights would be infringed, I wish peace and prosperity to all nations, so you should not pass your thoughts on Yarbay as mine. Dear, you may be a representative of the Azerbaijani intelligentsia, most likely you do not know such facts. Moreover, this took place in 1990, in the future such actions may have completely disappeared, which may have been facilitated by the strengthening of the central government in Baku and, for sure, attention to this issue from Moscow. Information about negative actions against Russians and Russian-speaking in the 90s of the twentieth century in the border republics of the USSR is full of open access, do you want to say that this is not true, that this did not take place, that the people who write about it and They say they are misleading us Russians? Just think, in a couple of years, almost 300 thousand people suddenly left your country, some of them went missing or suffered from illegal actions. Not just that they were traveling from a "friendly" country? If you have other information, then voice it.

                        P / S Nobody blames the whole Azerbaijani people for this, on the contrary, Russia is quite friendly towards him, just admit that nationalist-minded citizens of Azerbaijani nationality in the Azerbaijan SSR exerted pressure on Russians and Russian speakers, as well as illegal actions against them from which the latter suffered, and condemn their actions with the full qualification of the deed and compensate the victims for losses.
                        Then you already have every right to call the Soviet Union a state "occupier" and "exploiter."
                        Or else you can’t call him that because the USSR released the Azerbaijan USSR not as a result of the national liberation struggle, but peacefully without territorial and national claims from the Union Center.
                      6. Yarbay
                        0
                        6 January 2013 09: 17
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        You yourself count, I have no leisure.

                        The same percentage, maybe less !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Do you acknowledge that your criticism is unfounded?

                        My criticism is more than justified, you read inattentively!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Dear, you are probably a representative of the Azerbaijani intelligentsia, most likely you do not know such facts.
                        The question is not, give your facts if you have them !!
                        But the facts, not the lies of Armenian authors!
                        Have you ever been to Baku ??
                        If you will ever be, you will understand how wrong your ideas are !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        , would you like to say that this is not true, that this did not have a place to be, that the people who write and speak about this mislead us Russians?
                        Of course, because otherwise so many Russians would not have lived here!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Didn't they just go from a "friendly" country?
                        Not only Russians but also Azerbaijanis were leaving, because there was a war and a difficult economic situation, and I wrote above that the military left their families, you do not read !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Or else you can’t call him that because the USSR released the Azerbaijan USSR not as a result of the national liberation struggle, but peacefully without territorial and national claims from the Union Center.

                        You are deeply mistaken as a result of the inept policy of Gorbachev. In the Azerbaijan SSR, the national liberation struggle unfolded !!
                      7. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        6 January 2013 12: 48
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        The same percentage, maybe less !!

                        The growth dynamics of your compatriots in my country is positive while mine in yours is negative. You must understand that this leads to reflection.
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        The question is not, give your facts if you have them !!
                        But the facts, not the lies of Armenian authors!
                        Have you ever been to Baku ??
                        If you will ever be, you will understand how wrong your ideas are !!

                        In the facts I have cited, there is a link to the source. Especially since
                        You already discussed this issue a year ago with Uv. Zeleniy 413-1685.
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Of course, because otherwise so many Russians would not have lived here!

                        In the Baltic countries, too many Russians live, but they are there in a not very comfortable atmosphere. Once again, this happened in the 90s in connection with the collapse of the USSR, no one claims that this is happening in Azerbaijan now.
                        If you feel resentment towards the Soviet "colonial" power, and recognize its activity as "negative", this is your full right as a state, and no one argues with this. But why not then give an assessment of the activities of nationalist-minded citizens in the 90s of the twentieth century in your country in relation to the Russians. Or completely refute it motivatedly from various sources. Agree that the decentralization of power and centrifugal processes in your country and the entire USSR led to a case of negative and illegal attitudes towards Russians in 1990.
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        You are deeply mistaken as a result of the inept policy of Gorbachev. In the Azerbaijan SSR, the national liberation struggle unfolded !!

                        Suppose ... but who was this "fight" against? By any chance, not against the "Russian occupants"?
                      8. Yarbay
                        0
                        6 January 2013 13: 20
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        this took place in the 90s in connection with the collapse of the USSR, no one claims that this is happening now in Azerbaijan.

                        Well, this was not in the 90s as you imagine)))))
                        You are zombie by nazi ideas !!
                        I just do not want to repeat myself in the third round !!
                        Above, I set out the reasons for migration at that time, and not only for Russians !!
                        But you could not and cannot bring the facts!
                        Come to Azerbaijan and talk to the people who lived here and live here!
                      9. Ingvald_Bueny
                        0
                        7 January 2013 18: 21
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        You are zombie Nazi ideas!

                        What kind of idea is this? No insults.
                        You can’t answer the facts and say so.
          2. Orthodox warrior
            +2
            4 January 2013 16: 30
            Azerbaijani delirium! Aze.y are always right! But Russians and Armenians are enemies! Azera built Gabala! And we used it and did not pay! Again, the Russians and the Armenians are to blame! fellow And everything that does not agree with your understanding is all taken out of context! fellow Bravo! Go ahead and with the song!
      3. +9
        3 January 2013 22: 23
        I can understand your dislike of the Armenians, but you should not go too far. In Yerevan, where I serve, there are Russian schools and no one closed them. Regarding Adam, this is a mentality, I know firsthand and this fact is not in favor of the Armenians.
        1. Orthodox warrior
          +4
          4 January 2013 00: 38
          Roman, you tell me? I wrote this with irony to our "friend" from sunny Azerbaijan.
          1. +1
            4 January 2013 10: 12
            So I also wrote to him, apparently a dumbass on a site of some kind.
        2. YuDDP
          +1
          4 January 2013 02: 53
          Everything is logical for Armenians with religion - in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem there is an Armenian side chapel, so they have the right ...
          1. +1
            4 January 2013 03: 46
            So the Armenians adopted Christianity earlier than us ....
        3. Yarbay
          +1
          4 January 2013 15: 39
          Quote: Tupolev-95

          I can understand your dislike of the Armenians, but you should not go too far. In Yerevan, where I serve, there are Russian schools and no one has closed them
          And my dislike, it is a whispered fact !!
          There are no Russian schools in Armenia and do not lie!

          I'm not talking about schools for the Russian military !!
          Recently, at the suggestion of the Minister of Education, the Armenian blogosphere has been actively discussing the possibility of opening Russian (and not only!) Schools in Armenia. Most bloggers are against it.

          http://www.meronq.com/threads/4618-%D0%AF%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BA-%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE%D
          0%B9-%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3-%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9/page12

          http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showtopic=43272


          These things about Russians are written by Armenians, not Kazakhs, Ukrainians or Azerbaijanis!
          1. +1
            6 January 2013 13: 35
            How stubborn you are. In addition to the schools of the Ministry of Defense and the border troops of the Russian Federation, in Yerevan there is a Russian school named after Pushkin, school number 69 named. Sakharova, the Russian school №147 is only those schools in which children of our military personnel study, so I know about them. What bloggers write there and how they relate to Russians are of little interest to me. I serve where the Motherland ordered. You accused me of lying, I answered you.
            1. max-02215
              0
              10 January 2013 11: 45
              Yes, with these eternally offended and occupied, it is very difficult to conduct a conversation, it’s a little bit like eternal intrigues of the enemies, but the fact that our compatriots were driven from all the republics is a fact. One thing infuriates us, they instilled this fucking tolerance into us, and we suffer from it, if we did it, we wouldn’t have had the same questions now, or maybe not late ........
  20. +4
    3 January 2013 13: 39
    History is now being written about - and who wants what, and everyone who is not lazy. And as for the fact that we lost the cold war and are losing informational war with enviable persistence, the mentality of the Russian peasant is this: it’s easier to hit him in the face than to answer empty words. But seriously, this topic, about the perversion in this case of history in our time, is the most acute and painful, but to put someone who has gone too far to put "there is no law now ...", as in V. Vysotsky: The precedent of permissiveness has been created, well, and further, you also know everything about gin ...
  21. Nurker
    -8
    3 January 2013 13: 50
    I did not like the article, but the opinion here is with a very subtle subconscious focus. They are trying to put pressure on the Russian people, allegedly, these CIS are ungrateful, do not love and hate all of them because they hate us.

    Such articles should not be written, otherwise it will turn out like an advertisement for beer: "Drinking beer seriously harms your health" or "the Ministry of Health warns", and this is an advertising trick and will work
    1. Ingvald_Bueny
      +7
      3 January 2013 14: 26
      It is not necessary to consider the Russian people "inconsiderate" that one can press on it with such information, the author just cited facts concerning the educational policy of some states in the sphere of history and relations with Russia. Moreover, this whole policy demonstrates itself very clearly. Do you really think that in our age of accessible information technologies it is so easy to manipulate public opinion in Russia? That would be a funny opinion.
      1. Nurker
        -8
        3 January 2013 14: 42
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        It is not necessary to consider the Russian people "inconsiderate" that one can press on it with such information, the author just cited facts concerning the educational policy of some states in the sphere of history and relations with Russia. Moreover, this whole policy demonstrates itself very clearly. Do you really think that in our age of accessible information technologies it is so easy to manipulate public opinion in Russia? That would be a funny opinion.


        I don’t think. Most of the many convictions themselves prove it, it is in all nations. Specifically, this article carries such a conviction for the Russian people that, without a doubt, everyone unconsciously hates Other CIS nations
        1. +6
          4 January 2013 04: 06
          You know, ordinary Russian people see how different "brotherly" peoples "thank" them for the good. For example, the Bulgarian "brothers", like the Germans to us, so these in the train, serve cartridges. But the Russians paid for the liberation of Bulgaria from the Turks at the highest price, in blood. And as far as I remember, then the Bulgarians were not occupied. And in the textbooks we were told about the Bulgarian brothers who were grateful to us at the very least! Yes, there are many such examples in the history of Russia. Maybe that's why the Russian people have such an attitude towards all kinds of "brothers"?
        2. -3
          4 January 2013 12: 17
          Articles are written NOT by ordinary people, but by agents from the West or the Kremlin, and why should I, a Russian citizen, accept Western propaganda?
      2. Nurker
        -2
        3 January 2013 15: 25
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        Do you really think that in our age of accessible information technology it is so easy to manipulate public opinion in Russia? That would be a ridiculous opinion.


        Do not be surprised, but it is true. In our age of information technologies, public consciousness can be manipulated as you like, it allows you to influence various literature and the media faster and stronger. the same films by Mikhalkov, Cartoons of Russian fairy tales (modern), yes you can regulate through whatever you want, from kindergarten to university
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +3
          3 January 2013 16: 46
          I am not surprised, but in my opinion it is you who are manipulating in this case, because really not everything is so smooth in the space of the former USSR between the CIS members, and one should not build illusions of harmony in their relations. After all, as one saying goes, "Better a bitter truth than a sweet lie."
          1. Nurker
            -4
            3 January 2013 18: 45
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            and you should not build illusions of harmony in their relationship. After all, as one saying goes, "Better a bitter truth than a sweet lie"


            What are you talking about? if you think that relations in Kazakhstan are inhuman, then you are mistaken in a cruel way
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +5
              3 January 2013 20: 11
              You probably misunderstood me or did not understand what I wrote to you in my message. Moreover, here "inhuman relations", meaning that the relations of one state with another are far from ideal, like the relations of other states, this is a property of politics. Another thing is that when one state talks about friendship with another, and educates its citizens from school in the spirit of the fact that it is an "enemy" and an "occupant", then these relations cannot be called friendly, and not even pragmatic. Or do you think differently?
              1. Nurker
                -4
                3 January 2013 20: 22
                Then I want to reassure you, children in Kazakhstan for whom Russia, like an evil empire or something else of this kind, are not being raised. Do not judge many things by books or articles.
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +2
                  3 January 2013 21: 07
                  That is, in your textbooks there isn’t a word about this?
            2. 0
              4 January 2013 12: 20
              Quote: nurker
              You think that in Kazakhstan there are inhuman relations, then you are mistaken in a cruel way

              Note that you wrote this, your interlocutor did not say anything like that !!!
    2. +4
      3 January 2013 17: 39
      But it seems to me that it’s not the Russian people who are pressing on you, but someone else living on the American continent.
      1. Nurker
        -4
        3 January 2013 18: 48
        Quote: Simon
        But it seems to me that it’s not the Russian people who are pressing on you, but someone else living on the American continent.


        Congratulations, you guessed the CTD)))

        For the fact that you buy Pepsi now blame the United States and the Jews
  22. von_Richten
    +4
    3 January 2013 14: 05
    And you are talking about some kind of Eurasian Union. All these "brotherly" peoples are spitting on us and spitting - it's time for them to spit in response, but I'm afraid the flimsy economies of these banana republics (except for a couple of countries) will not stand it.
  23. Beck
    -9
    3 January 2013 14: 10
    It’s somehow incomprehensible. The colonial era existed objectively, as in its time the slave era. All strong states lived according to the rules of the colonial era, that is, they carried out colonial seizures, and Russia annexed vast territories, as it were, did not exist in the colonial era.

    Today, when the era of colonialism has ended, when international relations have changed to deny the regular period of colonization, in the history of Russia, this is stupid. It turns out that the Turks, Anglo-Saxons, French, Belgians, they lived in the era of colonization and captured the colonies, and Russia at that time, as it were, as a state did not exist. This is all the same if one asserts that there was no invasion of Batu by Russia, but there was, in the highest degree, a noble desire to unite the Russian principalities and create a single Russian state.

    A little history that cheers patriots are turning.

    Voluntary accession of Kazakhstan. "In 1730, the Khan of the Younger Zhuz, Abulkhair, turned to the Russian government with a proposal for a military alliance. It was rejected and in return it was proposed to accept the patronage (protectorate) of Russia. On February 19, 1731, Empress Anna Ioannovna signed a letter of" voluntary "entry of the Younger Zhuz into the Russian Empire . " In 1853, the Russian troops of General Perovsky stormed the present-day Kzyl-Horde by the Ak-Mosque. In 1864, troops led by Chernyaev captured Chimkent. At the same time, the traveler Severtsov, who was in the army, opposes the cruelty of Chernyaev. Also, Bukhara, Khiva, Tashkent, Turkmenistan were subordinated by military force.

    The accession of Ukraine is the result of the colonial struggle between the colonial powers of Russia, the Ottoman Empire, and Austria-Hungary, in which Russia won. The annexation of Transcaucasia is the result of rivalry between Russia, the Ottoman Empire, and Iran. And all this is not liberation campaigns. And tearing each other’s lands. And this does not mean that if these lands were captured by the Ottomans, Austrians, Iranians, then this is undoubtedly colonialism, but if Russia was captured, then this is liberation. Talking about the North Caucasus is also not necessary. Russia conquered it for 50 years.

    And if now in the former republics of the USSR its own history is restored, then what is bad here. I studied according to Soviet history textbooks and in them about my country it all came down to the words of a yurt, steppe, shepherd. I learned the real story only after the collapse of the USSR, when the works of Russian scientists Gumilyov, Klyashtorny and others, which were not officially published in Soviet times, began to be published.

    You just have to admit that Russia developed in line with world history, with all its periods. In which Russia acted in accordance with the relevant world attitudes of that time - feudalism, colonialism, capitalism. As I admit, not only in Russia there are nationalists who also distort the past.
    1. +3
      3 January 2013 14: 21
      Each nation has a sacred right to its history, but it is still desirable that it be objective. Russian colonial policy was very different from British, for example.
      1. +4
        3 January 2013 16: 12
        Quote: Tupolev-95
        Russian colonial policy was very different from British, for example.

        You understand this, but Beck does not know anything about it. He (after 1991) was told that Kazakhstan was a colony and that was enough for him. After all, it was reputable for him people. And you won’t be able to convince. Only he can find the truth (if he wants). And now Russia is a colonizer for him.
        1. Beck
          -1
          4 January 2013 12: 22
          Quote: tan0472
          You understand this, but Beck does not know anything about it. He (after 1991) was told that Kazakhstan was a colony and that was enough for him.


          Often you can hear in disputes, not far off, they told him that, they inspired him, the third was propagandized. And that a person cannot have his own analysis, based on existing knowledge. What I wrote above comes from world history, from the history of Russia, which I read in Soviet textbooks and articles of the Soviet era.

          I now admit that Russia pursued a colonial policy like other countries of the era of colonialism. And I admit that in Soviet times, the colonial policy of tsarist Russia was replaced (the communist ideology could not recognize colonialism) with a policy of brotherhood and equality, but with the communist dictate of Moscow. I admit that under the USSR the most striking forms of colonial rule were absent. And I admit that for the development of the entire USSR, it was necessary to develop other republics (regions of a single state). I acknowledge that through the Russian language and Russian culture I joined the world culture.

          But you do not want to recognize a whole era in the development of Russia. Like there were no colonial acquisitions. Russia did not participate in it. She did not want anything, everyone came. And you do not want to recognize the axiom of colonialism. That all colonial seizures are carried out either by force or by the threat of the use of force.

          And to say it costs little. There was an era of colonialism. Russia participated in it as it could. But now other times. And all the past story. And no complaints. What was it was. And now we are already building the Eurasian Economic Community, but not on the basis of the installations of colonialism, but on an equal footing. How the European Union is built.
          1. stranik72
            +1
            4 January 2013 14: 36
            The colonial policy that you are writing about (and it was so on the part of the Western countries) implies the enslavement and destruction of nationalities, and if you are trying to be objective, then the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union did not pursue such a policy, on the contrary, we tried to bring the "enslaved" peoples to a higher level in its development, while maintaining its individuality.
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              7 January 2013 01: 20
              Quote: stranik72
              we tried to bring the "enslaved" peoples to a higher level in our development while preserving their individuality.

              Hmmm, and what kind of Disneyland theaters did the Russian government build in Turkestan? Nothing but military bases and infrastructure for managing new territories. Well, it also provided subsidies to the Russian Holozady Stolypin landless immigrants, in whose favor lands were massively taken from local residents. Read the reasons for the largest uprising on the territory of the Russian Empire in 1916 in Turkestan.
          2. -1
            4 January 2013 21: 31
            Quote: Beck

            Beck

            Russia has already abandoned Gabala, in ten years it will also abandon Baikonur, and then, when Russian colonialism with respect to the most ancient Kazakh people will end, you will soon begin to hunt gophers again if p-and-d-o-s-a-m are for rent the cosmodrome, built by the colonialists, will not be handed over, but rather to the Chinese, they will wean you from the ancient habits of spitting in the well.
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              7 January 2013 01: 25
              Quote: cherkas.oe
              Ten years later, he will refuse from Baikonur, and then, when Russian colonialism with respect to the most ancient Kazakh people will end, you will soon begin to hunt gophers again

              Excuse me, but now, just because of Baikonur, Kazakhs don't hunt gophers? I see no logic in your emotional message ... 115 million dollars that Russia pays for Baikonur (and even then this money really doesn’t come alive, at first Russia gave air trash, which then the Kazakhs repaired for their hard-earned money in Ukraine and Belarus, and Now Moscow simply pays for training grounds with barter - by training Kazakhstani cadets in Russian universities) it turns out that they are saving Kazakhstan? In a fit of Kazakhophobia, you didn’t confuse the generally wealthy Kazakhstan with Tajikistan? Are you also one of those who are offered here on the "turn off the gas to Kazakhs" line? :)))))))))
              1. +1
                7 January 2013 23: 38
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                "turn off gas to Kazakhs"? :)

                About real money, you need to ask your management. Until a certain time, I personally considered the Kazakhs the first ally of Russia, when I voted for an alliance, I proved to friends with foam that only Kazakhstan could coexist with Russia from all the former eastern republics, but exactly until my dear uncle left Almaat, who devoted his whole life to the development of industry and the training of nat. those. personnel in Kazakhstan. When he left your republic he was already 86 years old and disappointed he was not in your rulers, namely in the people, I will not give his last statements on this subject, so as not to earn himself more penalty points. My illusions about the fraternal Kazakh people, my sister and son-in-law who returned from Baikonur, having worked in space throughout their lives and studied Kazakhs from and to, scattered my illusions even more. So do not be offended by my, as you put it emotional messages. The subject I know well firsthand.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  10 January 2013 01: 37
                  I wonder how it is Suddenly offended your 86-year-old uncle? Did not give work? Or did the Kazakhs now also begin to insult old people?
                  And since when did the Kazakhs manage to "intimidate" the Russians in Baikonur? Considering that the Russians live there according to their own laws and under their control?
          3. His
            +1
            5 January 2013 21: 07
            Watch Mu Beck's film "Spring on the Street beyond the River" - there you will see the colonialists. A film about your steppes
        2. +1
          4 January 2013 12: 25
          Russia's policy with respect to the annexed territories was not colonial in principle, so there was no Russian colonial empire.
          P Since the era of colonialism has not ended, you (Kazakhs) simply do not feel it under the wing of Russia.
          1. Beck
            +3
            4 January 2013 13: 01
            Quote: Setrac
            P Since the era of colonialism has not ended


            The era of colonialism ended in a purulent abscess of 2MB. After all, what did Germany, Japan, Italy want. They wanted a redivision of the world. Since they lagged behind in the seizure of colonial spaces from England, France, Belgium, Portugal, etc.
            It was to acquire "living spaces" that they unleashed a war. To pick up raw materials. But after the war, the colonial era collapsed. Entire continents gained independence. Now they don’t take everything, but buy what they need.
            1. stranik72
              +3
              4 January 2013 14: 44
              Ha ha, but the war in Iraq, Libya is not a continuation of the colonial policy, changing the format a little, the territory does not need resources. To whom did they get Iraqi oil, but Libyan too. Yes, and for 2MB, the United Kingdom also do not share the boy in that fire.
              1. Beck
                +1
                4 January 2013 16: 03
                Quote: stranik72
                Ha ha, but the war in Iraq, Libya is not a continuation of the colonial policy, changing the format a little,


                These are not colonial wars. In Iraq and Libya, bloody dictatorial regimes were overthrown by the world community.

                What Iraq and Libya declared by someone’s colonies? What do they give their oil and gas to the west for free? They sell it to anyone they want. Won Iraq, in your US colony, granted oil concessions to Russian Lukoil for $ 2 billion, signed military contracts for the supply of Russian weapons for $ 3 billion. And what kind of colony can do this. Iraq would have to buy weapons in the United States and not sell to Russia, but give its oil for free to Amers. By default, occupation troops should be in the colonies. In Iraq and Libya, they are not.

                After WW2, England voluntarily abandoned all of its colonies and the mandate to govern the Middle East. England now has only two overseas possessions. This is the naval base of Giblartar, by agreement of the Spanish government, and the Falkland Islands. But at the Falklands in 2014 there will be a referendum where residents of the archipelago should speak out where they want to go. Under the jurisprudence of England or Argentina.

                Repeat the story, refresh the definition of phenomena, sort out the surroundings.
                1. +2
                  4 January 2013 22: 59
                  Quote: Beck
                  These are not colonial wars. In Iraq and Libya, bloody dictatorial regimes were overthrown by the world community.

                  Rave. Yes, they give oil for free, because they owe money for helping to overthrow the "bloody" regime. Or do you, by your naivety Bekovskaya, think that all the bombs dropped on the territory of the "bloody" regime have no value?
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +2
                    4 January 2013 23: 08
                    Quote: Alexej
                    Rave. Yes, they give free oil,

                    Of course it's free, who will ask them, and even if asked, they will answer what they will be told. After all, "Rangers" are not wandering around.
        3. Marek Rozny
          +2
          7 January 2013 01: 12
          Believe it or not, in Soviet times the tsarist advance into Turkestan was also called "colonial" and "conquering". A sample of a typical paragraph in Soviet times:
          "The Andijan uprising of 1898 was a consequence of the colonialist policies of tsarism in Wed. Of asiawhich caused in the 80-90s. a wave of spontaneous popular performances in the Ferghana region. The discontent of the masses was used by the feudal nobility and the Muslim clergy of the former Kokand Khanate (See Kokand Uprising 1873-1876). At the head of A. century. Madali-ishan stood, who settled in the village of Ming-Tyube (near Andijan). In fomenting the religious fanaticism of the masses, he drew to his side part of the working population. Madali Ishan established a connection with the Turkish Sultan. Leaders A. century. they planned to raise an uprising in Andijan, Osh, Margelan under the slogan of ghazavat (a holy war against the "infidels"), to capture Namangan, restore the Kokand khanate, and spread the uprising to the whole Wed. Asia, introduce the old, feudal orders. On May 17, participants in the uprising gathered in Ming-Tyube and its environs and marched to Andijan.
          The rebels, the bulk of which were farmers, farmers and cattle breeders, day laborers-mardikers, armed mainly with knives, totaled up to 2 thousand people. On May 18, at dawn, they suddenly attacked the barracks of two companies of the 20th Turkestan Line Cadre Battalion, located on the outskirts of Andijan. The soldiers, after suffering minor casualties, scattered an unorganized crowd with fire. The movement was quickly and brutally crushed. 383 people were condemned by the tsarist authorities, 18 of them (including Madali-ishan) were hanged, the rest were sent to penal servitude and settlement. A. century was defeated, not only because of poor preparedness, but also because, contrary to anticolonial moods of the bulk Its participants, the leadership of the uprising fell into the hands of the feudal lords and clergy, who sought to restore their privileges with the help of the popular movement. Nevertheless A. century. objectively contributed to the further increase in the national liberation struggle of the peoples of Turkestan".

          Lit .: History of the Uzbek SSR, vol. 2, Tashkent, 1968. H.T. Tursunov.


          Z.Y. And all this was written under strict Soviet censorship quite legally. It is very strange that you did not know about what even the Soviet government openly called this period until 1917 - frank colonization. True, the tsar and the Russian Empire were appointed to blame, and not the Russian people. In general, the Russian people and now no one in the textbooks or in the speech of officials does not call the invaders. They write about the politics of tsarist Russia when they talk about the colonization and seizure of Turkestan. It is the Russians in Russia blinded by hatred that confuse these concepts.
    2. Ingvald_Bueny
      +1
      3 January 2013 14: 21
      Dear, in my opinion you have just set out your version of the story in the version that the author spoke about. Which confirms the facts that the author cited. But after all, many of your compatriots think differently and Russia is a friend to them, not a colonizer.
      1. Nurker
        -1
        3 January 2013 14: 30
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        But after all, many of your compatriots think differently and Russia is a friend to them, not a colonizer.


        We consider the Russian people a friend and we are historical brothers with them, no matter what.

        And the leading elite was far from perfect
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +4
          3 January 2013 14: 46
          Strange statements you have about your friend, meaning your message 14.10. Somehow it was not friendly, you did it.
        2. +2
          4 January 2013 12: 26
          Despite everything - what is this? Please specify what Russia is to blame?
          Maybe Russia is friends "no matter what"?
          1. Beck
            +2
            4 January 2013 13: 09
            Quote: Setrac
            Despite everything - what is this? Please specify what Russia is to blame?


            Russia is not to blame for anything. In the colonial era, she vomited her interests. That's all. This is to admit. History is history. And then it starts - we did not do anything. Not captured, not attached. It’s just that the Pacific Ocean and Tien Shan with the Pamirs themselves rolled up to our Russian borders.

            I now admit that the Batu invasion of Russia was. And I’m not saying that it was the Russian princes who wanted to voluntarily live, not for nothing, not for nothing, in the Golden Horde yoke.
    3. Nurker
      -8
      3 January 2013 14: 25
      Beck, bro, here we run into the mines of Great Russian chauvinism !!!
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +5
        3 January 2013 14: 31
        On the contrary. Maybe you’re laying mortar Russophobia mines here?
        1. Nurker
          -4
          3 January 2013 14: 37
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          On the contrary. Maybe you’re laying mortar Russophobia mines here?


          No, Russian brothers for me, like all of humanity
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +3
            3 January 2013 14: 42
            This is nothing more than pathos, a beautiful slogan. Your internationalism will disappear as soon as your interests and those of the neighboring side collide. Or will it be otherwise? I doubt it.
            1. Beck
              +1
              4 January 2013 12: 29
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              Your internationalism will disappear as soon as your interests and those of the neighboring side collide. Or will it be otherwise? I doubt it.


              There are trade-offs for this. All world politics is based on compromises. Evrazes is also built on these compromises. For a consensus, someone is necessarily inferior in one and acquires in the other.
          2. +5
            3 January 2013 14: 54
            Quote: nurker
            No, Russian brothers for me, like all of humanity

            To be all friend and brother is to not be anyone.
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +3
              3 January 2013 14: 58
              Logically, like higher mathematics.
              1. Nurker
                -2
                3 January 2013 15: 15
                http://www.sdelanounih.ru/rossiya-kak-unikalnaya-civilizaciya-i-kultura/
              2. +1
                4 January 2013 14: 14
                Logically, like higher mathematics.
                Lobachevsky you are ours!
            2. +2
              4 January 2013 14: 12
              To be all friend and brother is to not be anyone.
              Ah, well done! Ah yes clever !!! So them !!!
              "Either - something in half, or - something to smithereens"!
              Here it is - in our opinion !!!
              "He who is not with us is against us!" And no need to think! Simple, isn't it?
              All this has already happened ... Everyone knows what it led to.
              But, owe you, dear Alexei , disappoint - in this world, in addition to white and black colors, there are also half tones ...
              Yes, and white itself (only strictly between us!) Consists of a combination of seven colors!
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +2
                4 January 2013 14: 39
                Quote: Ward # 6
                To be all friend and brother is to not be anyone.
                Ah, well done! Ah yes clever !!! So them !!!
                "Either - something in half, or - something to smithereens"!
                Here it is - in our opinion !!!
                "He who is not with us is against us!" And no need to think! Simple, isn't it?
                All this has already happened ... Everyone knows what it led to.
                But, should you, dear Alexej, disappoint - in this world, in addition to white and black colors, there are also half tones ...
                Yes, and white itself (only strictly between us!) Consists of a combination of seven colors!

                Are you probably an artist?
                1. +2
                  5 January 2013 19: 39
                  Ingvald_Bueny RU
                  Are you probably an artist?

                  Yes. In the shower. By profession - a painter. Painter.
                  By the way, "probably" is an introductory word. Separated with commas.
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +1
                    5 January 2013 19: 42
                    Quote: Ward # 6
                    Ingvald_Bueny RU
                    Are you probably an artist?
                    Yes. In the shower. By profession - a painter. Plasterer.
                    By the way, "probably" is an introductory word. Separated with commas.

                    You also understand punctuation. Perhaps you are a painter of the highest category?
                    1. 0
                      5 January 2013 21: 44
                      Perhaps you are a painter of the highest category?
                      "Well, what are you! Unlike you, I'm just learning!"
          3. +4
            3 January 2013 16: 17
            Quote: nurker
            No, Russian brothers for me, like all of humanity

            Why are you "bro" infringing on me (a resident of Kazakhstan) on the basis of language?
          4. +2
            4 January 2013 01: 15
            Interestingly, put a plus, nothing has changed
          5. +2
            4 January 2013 12: 29
            And for example, Hitler, you also love? Or an Anglo-Saxon pilot who bombed a school in Libya?
      2. +5
        3 January 2013 15: 00
        Quote: nurker

        Beck, bro, here we run into the mines of Great Russian chauvinism !!!

        Well, if you want to write the story as you want and as it is more profitable, more convenient, then you can run into the terminal and do something more serious than poking your nose into unpleasant facts.
      3. +4
        3 January 2013 16: 14
        Quote: nurker

        Beck, bro, here we run into the mines of Great Russian chauvinism !!!

        The ship of the Kazakh nationalism "leaned" on the mines of the Great Russian chauvinism. laughing
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +3
          3 January 2013 16: 19
          Fight fire with fire.
    4. +7
      3 January 2013 15: 13
      What other colonization? Rave. It was the UNION. Why, then, after Gorbachev’s liberation from colonial oppression, did these colonies not live better?
      1. Nurker
        -5
        3 January 2013 15: 28
        Quote: Alexej
        What other colonization? Rave. It was the UNION. Why, then, after Gorbachev’s liberation from colonial oppression, did these colonies not live better?


        Well, well, was the oprichnina a union too?
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +2
          3 January 2013 16: 02
          Oprichnina, and where?
          1. +2
            3 January 2013 16: 50
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Oprichnina, and where?

            Not at all. The arguments are not enough. That pokes what he can.
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +4
              3 January 2013 20: 40
              His ship of "nationalism" crashed on the rock of "Great Russian" chauvinism.
          2. Nurker
            -4
            3 January 2013 23: 11
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Oprichnina, and where?


            The oprichnina allowed the Moscow principality to destroy in the first place all its competitors, the Russians, and then go to the Tatars, Bashkirs, Georgians, therefore there are such expressions as Russian Tatars, Russian Georgian, Russian Bashkir, Russian German, Russian Jew, Russian means that he is a protectorate among the Russians, that is, "Russian" Whose? Russian. This became the unification of all peoples around Russia, Russian subjects, "Russian Tatars". The Russian Ukrainian probably also exists, I could be wrong, I'm sorry, but it's somehow strange when the Russians call their brotherly people Ukraine (Ukraine) ami, crest. Subsequently, these "Russians" were already brought up or saw everything differently than their ancestors and automatically became Russian. My friend (a descendant of Ukrainians or a Ukrainian crest), when he took a passport with me, took his Russian nationality, his right. In no way I am not condemning, I have no right. Sometimes there are even jokes about why all Chinese are similar, Koreans, physiological features, but for some reason the Russians are completely different from each other: blue, green, brown, black eyes differ, skin colors are also different, you can meet a little Russian, but also big there are heroes too, the types are too different. This is also the case among Kazakhs, but that's why we are divided into countless tribes and clans.

            If, of course, the USSR were still today, then I would also consider myself completely Russian, who knows
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +3
              3 January 2013 23: 35
              Before writing, you should think about what you are writing.
              Firstly, Russian is an ethno-confessional name that arose during the period of feudal fragmentation and became more common during the Mongol invasion and after it. When a single Ruska Power split up into independent princedoms of Galicia, Vladimir-Suzdal, Novgorod aristocratic republic, etc. the inhabitants of these regions began to call themselves Russian, as they belonged to a single ethnic group but to different regional entities, later Russian became also a synonym for the Orthodox. Russian means that he is the son of the Russian Land. For example, Rusin and Russian are one and the same. Russian Ukrainian is a border guard. Russian Tatar is Russified Tatar, as well as Russified German, Russified Jew, Russified Bashkir, Russified Kazakh, etc.
              Expressions "Khokhol", "Katsap", "Bulbash", etc. in relation to this or that representative of the Russian People, nothing more than small-town jokes. So your friend did the right thing, because he is not a "Tselina crest", but Russian.
              Secondly, what does the oprichnina have to do with the relations between the Russian and Kazakh Peoples?
              Thirdly, you can consider yourself anyone, only you will not become anyway, and you don’t need it.
              P / S Your messages are extremely Russophobic. You are a strange friend of the Russians, if you consider them someone's "protectorate". As the great commander Iskander Two-Horned said, "God, take away secret enemies-friends from me, and I will somehow get rid of obvious ones myself."
            2. +1
              4 January 2013 01: 20
              Interesting version. It seems like you need to open the bottle, think over wink
            3. xan
              0
              4 January 2013 02: 40
              delirium
              what is "oprichnina" you do not know
      2. +5
        3 January 2013 18: 13
        Quote: Alexej
        . Why, then, after Gorbachev’s liberation from colonial oppression, did these colonies not live better?

        And we poured all the blood from them during the time of colonization, but no other donor was found.
  24. Etna
    +10
    3 January 2013 14: 11
    The hypocrisy and meanness of the former fraternal peoples does not climb into any gate: they themselves live here, work, have a business (moreover, criminal or, at best, semi-criminal), and in their homeland they teach their children how to hate Russia. The young generation will grow up on these wonderful textbooks and will come to Russia to multiply, plunder and seize, being fully confident that they are taking revenge for the dignity trampled by the "colonialists" ...
  25. +3
    3 January 2013 14: 12
    Happy New Year Guys!

    Well what will I say! in the 4 and 5 classes they don’t teach the story of the relations between Russia and Georgia! 8-th class begins but how to say very little!
    in the 11 and in the 12 class the study of the Russian and Georgian relations begins! there is both negative and positive about these relationships!

    Well, history is not an exact science! as you want so rewrite! and there is propaganda!
    1. +2
      3 January 2013 15: 00
      The story is SCIENCE when it affirms the truth, that is, what it was as it really is and why, and provides convincing evidence for this. If it is corresponded, not negotiated, ignores the facts, adjusts conjuncturally, leads speculative evidence, then this is not SCIENCE.
      1. +2
        3 January 2013 15: 23
        Quote: Jura
        The story is SCIENCE when it affirms the truth, that is, what it was as it really is and why, and provides convincing evidence for this. If it is corresponded, not negotiated, ignores the facts, adjusts conjuncturally, leads speculative evidence, then this is not SCIENCE.

        then history is not a science! because everyone is writing a story from different starons!
        someone writes good facts or They make up
        Someone writes bad facts or They make up
        very very little write in real life what happened !!!
        proof of? and who needs it?
        example: in 2022 I will write one story! how Saakashvili on August 9 blew up a Russian T-74 tank with an AK-90, and when he was in Gori he saw a Russian samalot, he ran to the car to take a pulimot to shoot down the enemy, but on the way he stumbled and fell! and the guards thought he was scared. "
        need a sense of fantasy and all!
        1. +3
          3 January 2013 18: 37
          Quote: GEOKING95
          then history is not a science! because everyone is writing a story from different starons!
          someone writes good facts or They make up
          Someone writes bad facts or They make up

          Yes, this is just not science, but rather stories for people to see events as the author wants it.
          Quote: GEOKING95
          very very little write in real life what happened !!!
          But from this a real historian as a scientist will write his story.
          Quote: GEOKING95
          proof of? and who needs it?
          How does this need this, YOU need it if we talk about you, WE need it if we talk about us. After all, whatever happens, it happens in front of our neighbors who see everything, or are direct participants in the events that concern them, so that to respect yourself not from fictional stories and not become a laughing stock for other people, the truth is needed no matter what it is. Such Saakashvili come and go, but the people remain and still will not know whether he will thank him or curse him.
          1. +2
            3 January 2013 18: 50
            Quote: Jura
            How does this need this, YOU need it if we talk about you, WE need it if we talk about us. After all, whatever happens, it happens in front of our neighbors who see everything, or are direct participants in the events that concern them, so that to respect yourself not from fictional stories and not become a laughing stock for other people, the truth is needed no matter what it is. Such Saakashvili come and go, but the people remain and still will not know whether he will thank him or curse him.

            yes you are 100% right!
            1. +2
              3 January 2013 19: 19
              I am glad that we found words in order to understand each other.
  26. +13
    3 January 2013 14: 13
    if we are so bad-these chocks do not let everyone just come to us, let the streets of revenge go to each other, I'm shocked by their arrogance-you feed these creatures, they also knock under your breath, black creatures ...
    1. Green 413-1685
      +12
      3 January 2013 14: 31
      What kind of you are intolerant, just cut the truth in the eye)) Handshake admins ent do not like it)) I half a year ago I reminded a couple of figures from the solar republics (Uz and Az) how they expelled the Russian-speaking population in late 80 and early 90, like trains were stoned with stones, as if in a crowd they had beaten to death the Russians on the street, etc. So they told me that it turns out there was nothing of the kind, and I came up with everything. And admins so again at a time (!) Heels slammed warnings))) So you take the risk))
    2. Nurker
      -7
      3 January 2013 14: 31
      Quote: sasha 19871987
      if we are so bad-these chocks do not let everyone just come to us, let the streets of revenge go to each other, I'm shocked by their arrogance-you feed these creatures, they also knock under your breath, black creatures ...


      So you begin to show your true face of colonialism
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +5
        3 January 2013 14: 51
        You are mistaken. This face is not colonialism (spelling preserved), but isolationism. What is wrong with isolationism?
        If you studied types of states and studied imperialism in detail, you should know that, for example, the Russian Empire is not an empire as such, and the Soviet Union is not an empire, so it is impossible to talk about Russia's colonial policy as a discriminatory and parasitic policy, since this is not corresponds to historical reality.
        1. Nurker
          -5
          3 January 2013 15: 14
          Please, give links or literature, so that I can find out \ read your version

          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny

          You are mistaken. This face is not colonialism (spelling preserved), but isolationism. What is wrong with isolationism? If you taught the types of states and studied imperialism in detail, you should know that, for example, the Russian Empire is not an empire as such, and the Soviet Union is not an empire, thus talking about Russia's colonial policy as discriminatory and parasitic impossible, since this does not correspond to historical reality.


          http://www.sdelanounih.ru/rossiya-kak-unikalnaya-civilizaciya-i-kultura/
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +2
            3 January 2013 15: 50
            http://www.sdelanounih.ru/rossiya-kak-unikalnaya-civilizaciya-i-kultura/- В.Кожинов "Россия как уникальная цивилизация и культура". К чему эту публикацию вы привели?
            Quote: nurker
            Please, give links or literature, so that I can find out \ read your version

            Version of what?
      2. +6
        3 January 2013 15: 29
        Quote: nurker
        So you begin to show your true face of colonialism

        Yes, this is not a manifestation of colonial ideas, just tired of when they begin to live in a strange monastery by their own charter. And the most surprising thing is that when we try to put in place, not by action, but in a word, they are credited with inciting ethnic hatred, Nazism and other evil things. But there is one good saying - "Feel at home, but do not forget that you are visiting! ".
  27. +10
    3 January 2013 14: 17
    If Russia is so bad, how can one explain that the so-called "enslaved peoples" so zealously asked for the Russian Empire (Georgia, Ukraine, for example), although of course modern history scribes do not take this into account or call these facts propaganda. At the same time, the Georgians forget that such a conqueror as Tamerlane passed Georgia along and across with fire and sword. And later, under Catherine II, the very existence of Georgia was called into question. Yes, and Ukraine could remember something, and along with other "enslaved peoples", but they prefer to shyly keep silent about this.
    1. -6
      3 January 2013 15: 31
      Quote: Alekseir162
      At the same time, Georgians forget that such a conqueror as Tamerlane walked Georgia along and across with fire and a sword

      but to the end he could not conquer
      and after tamerlane united Georgia existed, it regained strength and again became a power, but 1490 fell apart for the feudal lords!
      Quote: Alekseir162
      under Catherine II, the very existence of Georgia was called into question.

      St. George's tract was signed 1783 year! and the Iranians attacked us in the 1795 year, Russia did not help us, then I remembered the sense of the obligation he gave!
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +3
        3 January 2013 16: 00
        And what does it mean?


        Quote: GEOKING95
        after tamerlan

        Why are you so a commander with a small letter, Iron Lamer, he is Tamerlane deserved to have his name written with a capital letter, especially since he really went through the whole of Georgia "with fire and sword" (I am not talking about conquest, since conquering after the past campaigns of Genghis Khan's warriors, especially there was nothing).
        1. +1
          3 January 2013 17: 25
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          Why are you so commander with a small letter

          forgot to put a capital letter, sorry!
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          And what does it mean?

          the fact that the story should not be read from one side!
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +2
            3 January 2013 20: 04
            No one argues that the sign of objectivity is versatility. However, what is written in the textbooks on the history of some CIS countries about the role of Russia in their development as an occupier and aggressor does not pretend to be objective.
            Here's how your opinion on issues such as the Russian Empire helped the Georgian Kingdoms or not? Were the interests of Georgians ensured in Soviet Georgia or not? Is the Russian People a fraternal Georgian?
            1. +1
              3 January 2013 21: 23
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              Here's how your opinion on issues such as the Russian Empire helped the Georgian Kingdoms or not? Were the interests of Georgians ensured in Soviet Georgia or not? Is the Russian People a fraternal Georgian?

              It helped and saved, no one would argue about it! but the time of salvation was long! in our textbooks both good is written and bad!
              2) yeah were besides the Abkhaz and Ossetian autonomous regions
              3) yes! soldiers and civilians die a warrior and politics sit well in their seats! The friendship of peoples is not indestructible!

        2. Yarbay
          0
          6 January 2013 16: 25
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          he Tamerlane deserved to have his name written with a capital letter, especially since he really went through the whole of Georgia "with fire and sword"

          *** The Great Tamerlan said: History will not forgive me 2 things: 1) The fact that I wanted to destroy the Armenians as an ethnic group, and the second, because I did not do this !!! True, there are good people among Armenians, but on the whole the people are ugly. She will never express her thoughts in the face, which is why it seems cultural, but in a convenient case she will kill !! ***
          Of course, a controversial statement, but either really Great or just did not know what he was saying!
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            0
            7 January 2013 16: 34
            Quote: Yarbay
            *** The Great Tamerlan said: History will not forgive me 2 things: 1) The fact that I wanted to destroy the Armenians as an ethnic group, and the second, because I did not do this !!! True, there are good people among Armenians, but on the whole the people are ugly. She will never express her thoughts in the face, which is why it seems cultural, but in a convenient case she will kill !! ***
            Of course, a controversial statement, but either really Great or just did not know what he was saying!

            He will not be reproached with Iron Khromts, but he hardly knew such terms as ethnos, cultural and other linguists from a clearly intelligent definition, and besides, such dry European proposals are not in the tradition of the East.
            P / S That you are so indifferent to the Armenians, how much time has passed, because they too can remember the Armenian genocide and other mutual insults, try to build friendly relations with them and your insults will go down in history. Armenians and Azerbaijanis live in the Russian Federation, and I personally have never heard that they are at war with us.
  28. +5
    3 January 2013 14: 23
    Everyone says that we lost the war, I have a more optimistic view on this issue — we lost the battle, but not the war. Yes, they lost part of the territory, but could lose much more. If the war were lost, then Russia, as we know it now, would not exist. And what is taught in the schools of the listed, former, republics is nothing more than an attempt to get rid of a complex that is not full-value and an excuse for the failure of local authorities. Please forgive me the citizens of these countries that are present on this site. In no way do I want to offend you. I am talking about those scoundrel dogs that, with their dirty hands, extinct that bright and great that was in our common history.
    1. Nurker
      -6
      3 January 2013 14: 33
      The third war should not be a war, but rather should unite the whole world. You have to fight for it.
      1. +2
        3 January 2013 18: 03
        Exactly! And what are you, my friend, you are doing everything in order not only to connect us, but also to quarrel on the contrary. What will you fight with sabers in the 3rd world? All the same, run to Russia to bow. fool
        1. Focuser
          0
          3 January 2013 20: 20
          Simon, disconnect and quarrel us to a greater extent you. Very good unpleasant to read expressions like "Anyway, run to Russia to bow"..
          Imagine that we live in neighboring houses and you say such words to me: anyway, run to bow to me .. What will be your attitude after that, what do you think? You can’t talk to your neighbors like that. Only to the detriment you say.
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            0
            3 January 2013 21: 05
            It all depends on the levels of the neighbors. If you live, for example, in a one-room apartment and drive a not very new Passat, and your neighbor who told you this in a 10-room apartment and has a solid car garage, then he is unlikely to be interested in your attitude to him.
            1. Focuser
              +3
              3 January 2013 21: 48
              Your example is out of place. This does not look like Russia and Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan is very important for Russia, as is Russia for Kazakhstan. Therefore, it is not clear why you gave such an example. Probably wanted to hurt? Moreover, relations with neighbors (any) are always important, there’s nothing to argue about.
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +6
                3 January 2013 21: 59
                You were told the many-sided nature of the problem of "neighbors in houses", in terms of the fact that your example is not successful.
                As for the importance of a country, it is necessary to look at their relationship in a constructive way, if the officials of one country allow some mildly ambiguous statements addressed to another, so the citizens of another country and their officials have the right to be indignant.

                “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”the President of Kazakhstan N. Nazarbayev said at the ceremony of raising the flag of the Turkic Council as part of the Kazakh-Turkish business forum in Istanbul (KAZAKHINFORM).
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +2
                  7 January 2013 01: 58
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”said the President of Kazakhstan N. Nazarbayev.

                  Well, what offended you? The fact that the Russian Empire and the USSR were called colonial states? In Soviet times, Soviet history textbooks themselves openly wrote that Russia was a colonizer and a predator in Turkestan. Che is here to be pity, take any work on the topic, published in the Soviet period. From an economic point of view, Kazakhstan was a colony in Soviet times, although it was not officially called that way. We were not even allowed to have our own leader, which later resulted in the December 1986 events. The Kazakh language and culture was driven below the plinth into the Kazakh SSR, so that the Russian immigrants were "more comfortable". The economy of the Kazakh SSR consisted almost entirely of the raw materials industry. We did not produce anything for a normal person, only resources - oil and gas, metals and so on - were mined. Can you name the brand of Kazakhstani cars, planes, TVs from the Kazakh SSR? 90% of our entire industry was focused on raw materials. The rest is a bit of light industry, food industry and defense industry. Moreover, the Kazakh SSR was a donor of the union budget, not a recipient, i.e. the republic gave more than it received. And what she received did little to benefit the Kazakhs - more money was spent on military infrastructure, training grounds, a mining and metallurgical complex (whose products were mainly sent to the RSFSR) and infrastructure for their own settlers from the European part of the USSR.
                  Maybe you were outraged by the fact that Nazarbayev allegedly lied about the fact that the Kazakhs almost lost their language, customs and religion? There was only one Kazakh school in Alma-Ata during Soviet times. Is this not a sign of Russification? Yes, there were Kazakh schools in the villages. Only where could the graduates of the Kazakh aul schools go, if even in the Kazakh SSR universities mainly taught in RUSSIAN? In fact, in order to get an education, it was necessary to Russify from childhood. During the decades of Soviet power, the Kazakh language was driven under the bed, and any attempt to raise it was classified as "nationalism." Even the poet and linguist Olzhas Suleimenov, who spent more energy on historical works about the Russian language than all Russian philologists of the last three decades, and he was persecuted as a "Kazakh nationalist" in the 70s-80s just because he discovered a layer of Turkic vocabulary in old Russian texts. Don't play the fool by denying all these facts.
                  Bekmakhanov's textbook on the history of Kazakhstan was banned, and the author himself received 25 years in camps only for calling the last Kazakh khan Kenesary Kasymov a fighter for the freedom of Kazakhs against tsarism (and with Leninist-Stalinist expressions). After the liberation in the 50s, the "re-educated" historian already writes that Kenesary was a byaka, and ordinary Kazakhs could not wait for a Russian immigrant who would teach them agriculture ... This is how Kazakhstan was a "non-colonial" part of Russia and THE USSR. You also say that Kazakhstan had a representation in the UN, or Moscow allegedly kicked its ass in Kazakh collective farms, building hospitals and theaters there. Perhaps a selmag and a club. And even then for the money that the collective farms earned for the state budget. Fortunately, half of the state ate Kazakh grain and meat.
                  So what specifically angers you in the quoted message?
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +1
                    7 January 2013 17: 08
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Moreover, the Kazakh SSR was a donor of the Union budget, and not a recipient, i.e. the republic gave more than it received. And what they received was not good for the Kazakhs — they spent more money on military infrastructure, training grounds, the mining and metallurgical complex (whose products mainly went to the RSFSR) and infrastructure for their own settlers from the European part of the USSR.

                    You have probably forgotten that the Kazakh SSR was part of the USSR, and was its equal republic. Was the standard of living of Kazakhs in the USSR "below the floor", or were they "discriminated against" in their own union republic? No. Regarding the issue of donation, do not forget that during the Soviet era, more than half of the population of the Kazakh SSR were Eastern Slavs, whose work also made up the budget of the Kazakh SSR, they were employed in metallurgy, science-intensive areas, and worked in the village farm. Or is it not so?
                    The main donor in the USSR was the RSFSR (due to its entire economy), the Union budget of the BSSR (for electronics), the Azerbaijan SSR (due to oil) were also subsidized. The Kazakh SSR did not subsidize, but transferred part of the funds to the national budget, for the Union needs, if you have other information, please provide them?
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    That the Russian Empire and the USSR were called colonial states? In Soviet times, Soviet history textbooks themselves openly wrote that Russia was a colonizer and predator in Turkestan. Che here to feel bad, take any work on the topic published in the Soviet period. From an economic point of view, Kazakhstan was a colony in Soviet times, although that was not officially called so.

                    The poor RSFSR granted the Kyrgyz-Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic independence by making it a union republic, and also transferred to Kazakhstan Russian South Siberia, where the main population is Russians, Tatars and Bashkirs. A strange step for the invaders. But the Russian Federation does not claim this territory right now, although it has the full historical right to it, but it would be somehow not friendly to the fraternal Kazakh Republic. For this reason, the PRC claims to all of southern and eastern Kazakhstan, calling them historically Chinese territories.
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Well, and what offended you?

                    Who exactly me or someone else?
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    And even then for the money that the collective farms earned for the state budget. Fortunately, Kazakh grain and half-power meat were nourished.

                    I don’t deny it. Dear, you will first compare the size of animal husbandry and agriculture in the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR, with the Kazakh SSR, and then assert that "half of the state" ate meat and grain from one of your union republics.
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Is that a selmag and a club.

                    A significant oversight of the Union Center, in this I agree with you. At that time, in fact, in all cities and towns of the RSFSR, skyscrapers had long been towered, discos, supermarkets, theaters worked around the clock, and all the inhabitants of my Beautiful Country drove around in ZIL-117. There was a time. Plus you for being reminded. ZIL is now in the garage, now you can't get spare parts for it. But you are not familiar with such a machine. If you ever do, I am sure to appreciate the design and power of this "Russian Road Dreadnought".
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      0
                      10 January 2013 02: 29
                      1) Yes, the standard of living in the Kazakh SSR was significantly lower than in European republics. Especially among the Kazakhs, who were traditionally a rural population. With all the consequences. By 1991, about 70% of the population of Kazakhstan lived in villages, engaged in agriculture. Moscow was not interested in the fact that the Kazakhs were urbanized, Moscow needed the Kazakhs as farmers. You can see how many cars or TVs were in the USSR by republic per capita, there are such numbers.
                      2) The Eastern Slavs in Kazakhstan are migrant workers, in modern terms, aimed not at improving the living standards of the Kazakhs, but in the name of the economic interests of the USSR. Moscow needed plants of the MMC - they were built. Why now the Kazakhs should thank for the fact that these plants were built at home is not clear. If these plants were built purely for the Kazakh SSR and their profits went to the republican budget, it would be understandable. And it’s just a means of pumping the wealth of the republic for other regions, primarily for the RSFSR, which needed Kazakh metal, coal, uranium and more. If the plant’s products are shipped to Russia, and Kazakhstan has nothing to do with this, then why give thanks? But here on the forum, most Russians are convinced that the Kazakhs should be grateful to the Russians. For what? For the plants that pumped raw materials from their republic? For the built cities for the Russian immigrants? Under Khrushchev, the snuffled Akmolinsk from the Kazakh city became the Russian (but no less snuffled) Tselinograd, in which the Kazakhs themselves suddenly found themselves in the overwhelming minority - about 10% of the population. Was it rebuilt for the Kazakhs, or for 90% of the newly arrived virgin lands Slavs? What to thank for? Do you thank the Tajiks for the fact that somewhere in the suburbs they rounded off a block for themselves?
                      All Kazakhstani industry was assigned to the Union ministries in view of their universal strategic importance, and not to the republican ministries. According to this scenario, it turns out that the Kazakh SSR did not mine coal or uranium at all, but ... the city of Moscow. Just like now, some Yakutia is put up as a subsidized region in the same way, because all of its main organizations are still registered in Moscow, and not in Yakutsk. But a hedgehog is understandable that Siberian regions actually make up the entire budget of Russia! In the same way, Kazakhstan is allegedly being parasite of the USSR.
                      3) The RSFSR did not give us independence. The Kazakhs had this right to the union republics, and achieved this status in the 30s. And where would Russia go, given that smaller peoples received such a status, and the Kazakhs were the largest Turkic ethnic group in the USSR, even in terms of numbers, I no longer remember the geography. The decision was made personally by Stalin, who grabbed his head when he found out about the admitted "distortions", as he put it, which the leadership of the RSFSR had done by sending Goloshchekin and other "nimble" Bolsheviks here, who spent "Small October" in the Kazakh village, as a result of which the population of the Kazakh ASSR has halved in two years! Thanks to Stalin then, but by no means to the then leadership of the RSFSR, which I hope is now being fried in hell.
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        10 January 2013 02: 31
                        4) And the main population of "Southern Siberia" by the time these territories were finally assigned to the formed Kazakh SSR were mainly inhabited by Kazakhs, and not Russians or others. Take the population census for each uezd and region, from 1897 to the first Soviet ones. Then maybe you will stop living in myths. At the same time, Omsk and Orenburg, inhabited by Kazakhs, were taken from the Kazakhs. But artificially created buffers between the Turks of Turkestan, the Volga region and Siberia.
                        5) China does not officially have any territorial claims against Kazakhstan. All controversial issues were completely closed back in the 90s.
                        6) The size of livestock can be easily compared. Especially per capita. How many Ukrainians or Russians collected bread, they ate the same amount. But not enough. That's why millions tons of grain and meat went from KZ to European republics. Have you already forgotten that even in Canada Moscow had to buy grain? Yes, even under Luzhkov, half of the bread in Moscow was from Kazakh grain. This is only the last few years, as Russia began to produce grain normally.
                        7) As for the selmags - well, sorry, Duc, Russian collective farms were completely unprofitable (except for the Orenburg region, Tatarstan and some other regions). They couldn't even feed themselves. And another thing is the Kazakh collective farm, which fed itself and sent food to its neighbor. As a gritsa, all collective farms received the same, but the collective farms gave differently. Where's the justice? And the Russians also reproach us for allegedly hanging on the neck of Russia! When Russia received food from us, and not vice versa. Where was the Bolshevik principle "from each according to his ability, to each according to his work"? Consciously or unconsciously, everything was done to the detriment of Kazakhstan. Well, God bless him. But how can we not start here, when today they begin to accuse us that we are supposedly hicks, such ungrateful, all our lives hung on the neck of the Russian people ?! The Russian village, neither under Khrushchev, nor under Brezhnev, nor under Gorby, nor under Yeltsin, simply could not feed itself corny. Why compare with a Kazakh village?
                        Z.Y. Why banter about the Seagull? The fact that I am from Kazakhstan means that I am a savage who did not see Seagull in my eyes?
          2. +2
            4 January 2013 12: 43
            Because, having separated from Russia, you have reduced our common potential for the development and production of weapons, your geniuses, who became Great people in the USSR, will remain "grazing sheep." By separating, you have reduced our overall defense potential. You do not bear the costs of developing new technology, you do not contain a nuclear triad, but at the same time you receive military equipment from Russia and are under a nuclear umbrella.
            1. Marek Rozny
              +3
              7 January 2013 02: 19
              Quote: Setrac
              Because, having separated from Russia, you have reduced our common potential for the development and production of weapons, your geniuses, who became Great people in the USSR, will remain "grazing sheep." By separating, you have reduced our overall defense potential. You do not bear the costs of developing new technology, you do not contain a nuclear triad, but at the same time you receive military equipment from Russia and are under a nuclear umbrella.

              Dreamer...
              1) Russia seceded from the USSR earlier than the Kazakh SSR or Kyrgyzstan. Russia, under the Yeltsin flag, jumped out of the Soviet Union. I don’t know where you lived in 1991, but I’m in the RSFSR, and I remember well that Nazarbayev tried to preserve the Soviet Union (albeit in a modernized form), but Russia, that politicians, that ordinary residents were buzzing, “Fuck this scoop, there is nothing to feed the other republics! " And now the Kazakhs are accused of allegedly separating from the common country ??? Where is the logic?
              2) How did the Kazakhs reduce the Russian potential in the military industry? You constantly write that Kazakhs are sheep herders, what is the damage from the fact that there are no Kazakh military "inventors" in Russia? Or are you freaking out over the fact that instead of "Disneylands" in steppe Kazakhstan, plants for the production of sea torpedoes (from Kazakh metal and other raw materials) and landfills were poked? So write that we need Kazakhstan as a raw material appendage, from which we take lead for bullets and in their steppe we need to detonate bombs. Write in your own words that the entire role of Kazakhstan in the defense industry of the Empire is a testing ground and raw materials for military factories. And nothing else is needed from us. Why hide behind phrases about the mythical "theaters and hospitals in the villages"? Come on, tell us how the Kazakhs blew up the Russian defense industry.
              3) We received a nuclear umbrella (which was forged from Kazakh uranium, because uranium is not mined in Russia) not only from Russia, but also from Western countries and the United States. And not for pretty eyes, but for disarming. Let me remind you that in the 90s Kazakhstan possessed the third nuclear potential in the world. Moscow itself tearfully asked Kazakhstan to give nuclear weapons stuck in the Kazakh steppe in exchange for the promise of an "umbrella". Why are you again blaming us for what you yourself have done? Are you writing completely drunk?
              4) No military equipment for the needs of the Kazakh army we don’t get free, and pay with real money without loans and delays. Moreover, he met with the factory workers at the Uralvagonzavod in Cadex, they directly pray to God that Kazakhstan would continue to buy goods from them. Exaggerate about God, but the meaning is this. So calm down. Kazakhs pay money for Russian weapons. And even experimental samples like BMPT are ready to buy. You can’t piss that the Kazakhs allegedly undermined the Russian defense industry. On the contrary, we give her orders for new items and repair of junk. Your freebie will not get us in the throat, you excreted bricks from the fact of the purchase, and what would happen to you if you really gave us at least one pistol free then - in general, I would have torn all my hair out of my head :))))
              1. Beck
                +1
                7 January 2013 12: 40
                Quote: Setrac
                You do not bear the costs of developing new equipment, do not contain a nuclear triad, but you get military equipment from Russia and are under a nuclear umbrella.


                Yes, we do not bear the costs of nuclear weapons, since we refused to own them in the early 90s.

                Kazakhstan is not only under the "umbrella" of Russia. For the voluntary abandonment of the available nuclear weapons (inherited from the USSR), Kazakhstan was guaranteed territorial integrity, assistance in the event of external aggression. The guarantors of such obligations are Russia, the USA, China.
              2. Ingvald_Bueny
                0
                7 January 2013 17: 16
                I agree with you. Russia is a Great Empire, a Superpower. If for you personally Marek it is bad your personal problems.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +7
                  10 January 2013 02: 52
                  Russia, in which Russia alone is not the Empire and not the Super Power, but the state of the second league. Do not wishful thinking. We will be an empire when there will be not only Russians, but also Kazakhs, Ukrainians, Caucasians and others.
                  Secondly, for me the USSR is not bad, but Russian chauvinists who are ready to crap any doubt about the correctness of the popular print "The Russian people are sinless and ideal, and the rest are garbage on a stick."
                  Russia would not even have been able to create a CU without the Kazakhs until Nazarbayev 20 fucked up your Kremlin on this issue. Shut the mouths of your half-witted Nazis, and even Saakashvili and Tymoshenko will be the first to queue up in the Eurasian Union. In the meantime, the Kazakhs are struggling with two versatile feelings - the desire to re-create the Empire (a couple of years ago, most Russians did not even want to hear anything about the CU, the Eurasian Union, but today whoever you don't take - everyone pretends that they have dreamed of such integration all their lives), and the second feeling is unwillingness to communicate with Russian losers, xenophobes. Any Kazakh can hardly restrain himself from becoming a Nazi in relation to the Russians when he sees the Russian forums. The fact that the Russians have slipped into semi-fascism is a byword even in the conversations of ethnic Russian Kazakhs. You are so used to it that you do not even notice how much your society is saturated with this poison. An empire is not a place where one nation dominates, but where citizenship dominates. I do not need a Eurasian Union with the dominance of the Russian people again. As well as a Ukrainian or a Georgian. What is not clear to you? The Kazakhs finally pushed you to the beginning of the integration processes, and you again spoil everything with your Russian chauvinism. Kazakh needs a Eurasian Union, where the nationality or religion of each citizen will really not matter. We are the Horde. We have been living since the time of the Turkic Kaganate (the first empire on the territory of modern Russia - 5th century) in empires throughout our history. Understand that the phrases inside the Empire "we - the Mauritans fed you, or we djurbunians pulled you out of shit, or our Lului people are the greatest in the world, and you - the Chimpo people - should be forever grateful to us" - idiocy for building an empire. That's not how empires are built. They just fall apart. (And you don't need to catch me, what I wrote about how Kazakhstan sent grain and meat to the RSFSR. I wrote this to reason with the crowd of shouts “Kazakhs are ungrateful and incapable of anything!” To show that Kazakhstan invested everything, that he could and could not in general development, and did not sit on the neck of the Russian people, in which 9/10 members of the forum firmly believe here). You cannot even be proud of your Caucasian athletes. The entire Internet was clogged during the Olympics with swinish expressions addressed to them. And do you still think that most Russians are capable of imperialism? You confuse chauvinism with imperialism. An empire is where a Russian will cry with pride at the sight of a Dagestani champion at the Olympics, where a Chechen will beat a Turk in Istanbul for insulting a Russian tourist. That's where the Empire is.
                  1. postman
                    +1
                    11 January 2013 00: 01
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    for me the USSR is not bad, but Russian chauvinists who are ready to crap any doubt about the correctness of the popular print "The Russian people are sinless and perfect, and the rest are garbage on a stick."

                    Bravo Marek. All right.
                    Mikhail Afanasevich Bulgakov has long been diagnosed

                    [media = http: //vk.com/video52690521_161584731? hd = -1 & t =]

                    [media = http: //vk.com/video62582661_161195249? hd = -1 & t =]

                    From the following:
                    He was in Alma-Ata (now Alma-Ata) twice in 1989, in 1990. At the same time, he had some minor conflict with ethnic Kazakhs. So what ? Now we communicate normally
                    They were the same with purebred Russians in the outback.
                    Was in practice in Tyura-Tam (Baikonur-Leninsk), 2 months.
                    Talked again. I have not experienced any problems.

                    Yes and no them, if not invented.

                    "One must be, not seem," that's all.
                    For me Although everyone is equal (equal), but not all are the same. And we must take this into account


                    An ethnic Russian, whom I know, cannot be dragged into the Russian Federation from AA by any means.

                    and so in Kazakhstan:
                    VAT less
                    Social (taxes) less.
                    Income tax is less.
                    Russia spoiled you with duties (Auto from Kyrgyzstan)
            2. postman
              +1
              10 January 2013 23: 40
              Quote: Setrac
              Because, having separated from Russia, you have reduced our overall potential for the development and production of weapons

              You at least read a recent story, that would not carry nonsense.

              Kazakhstan was the last in general
    2. +2
      3 January 2013 17: 58
      Lyokha79, correctly said, I support you.
  29. +4
    3 January 2013 14: 31
    Alexander Romanov

    Want to say that we lost to whom? If you are talking about the victory of the United States in a cold warrior, then this is a feast of victory, and it’s difficult to call it such. Now analyzing what is happening and who is winning, the West is in flames, and Russia is gaining momentum.
    The Germans stood at the walls of Moscow and also talked about victory, but in the end ................

    It is a pity that only one plus could be delivered to you! Five points on a five-point, you understand what I mean!
  30. +2
    3 January 2013 14: 38
    The history adopted in the "independent" republics can be seen as an indicator of Russia's influence. At the moment, where the Russians are exposed as invaders, the influence is minimal. The situation will change, and the textbooks will also change.
  31. mamba
    +4
    3 January 2013 14: 39
    The proclamation of the ancient Azerbaijanis by the contemporaries of the Sumerians is intended to substantiate the thesis: "Modern Armenia arose on the territory of ancient Western Azerbaijan."
    Self-identification with some ancient peoples living in the territory of this state, with which there was no and there was no ethnic continuity, is a usual historical speculation for idiots. Even the wise Chinese agreed to the point that they allegedly did not come from homo sapiens, but from homo erectus. laughing This was done to justify their special path in history and in the world. Not even too lazy to conduct an extensive genetic study among all ethnic groups in China. The result, of course, was negative: not a single person with a marker gene from homo erectus was found. negative
    Claims on the territory that once occupied some empires with which one so desires to identify themselves are completely untenable and destructive. This is for inferior, always complexing. negative Take the example from the Greeks or the Mongols. Here are the right guys. good
    1. -2
      3 January 2013 16: 14
      Quote: mamba
      The proclamation of the ancient Azerbaijanis by the contemporaries of the Sumerians is intended to substantiate the thesis: "Modern Armenia arose on the territory of ancient Western Azerbaijan."

      It is not indicated in which particular book it is written. In my memory, this has not been seen in school textbooks. I would like specifics from the author.
      1. Yarbay
        -3
        3 January 2013 19: 29
        Quote: Yeraz
        It is not indicated in which particular book it is written. In my memory, this has not been seen in school textbooks. I would like specifics from the author.

        This phrase is taken out of context !! - old Armenian tricks !!
        If you remember, at the request of the RSFSR and other countries of the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, in 20 years he handed over to Armenia Zengesur and Yerevan, so that Armenia had a capital !!
    2. Nurker
      -7
      3 January 2013 18: 54
      Quote: mamba
      The proclamation of the ancient Azerbaijanis by the contemporaries of the Sumerians is intended to substantiate the thesis: "Modern Armenia arose on the territory of ancient Western Azerbaijan


      And the proclamation of the ancient Russian by contemporaries of the Aryans, and even more so since the Russian people are God's chosen people, what is this?
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +6
        3 January 2013 20: 34
        Who officially proclaimed this? There is no such information in the official textbooks of Russian history. And if someone has written author's literature, so what you wanted, in Russia freedom of speech, the basic principle of democracy. But one thing when they write "gag", when the history textbook, that is, the official opinion of the state for its citizens, agree these are different things.
  32. +13
    3 January 2013 15: 03
    I am touched by SARs ... such as Kazakhstan ... Kurgizstan ... and others were raw materials appendages of Russia, cool. Their historians not only do not know the most recent history, but they didn’t remember what happened a couple of decades ago. Yeah, raw appendages ... Grandfather Nikita distributed the native Russian lands to feed these aboriginal parasites, to date them at least by the budget of the USSR, and not to contain them at 100%. Now they are indignant, like ... why RUSSIAN names of villages on their historical land. their memory is full of holes, well, what can I say, naturally ... as well as about their guides of Western values ​​... amerikosov ... WELL Dumb. Now about their greatness ... well, they are again turning to their occupiers for service ... now to Russia ... well, they would raise their greatness in a self-conscious national homeland.
    1. Nurker
      -7
      3 January 2013 15: 10
      Who else is serving the Americans? Who is the first to copy everything American? Who is America's first lawmaker? who is getting dumb thanks to American programs and films?
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +1
        3 January 2013 16: 04
        You asked an interesting question. So who is this?
        1. Nurker
          -1
          3 January 2013 20: 36
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          You asked an interesting question. So who is this?


          It turns out the Russian Federation and begins to copy everything, the television elite, Our Rush, Happy together, Soldiers and more.

          And this is not a propaganda of Western values ​​or, in extreme cases, disguise as such values.

          Look how humiliated these Jamsut and Ravshan are, and how humble the Central Asian people are shown.

          Tony Blair, Tony Blair, they were hooked on him not as a person, but as a former Anglo-Saxon, and the Anglo-Saxon is an enemy of the Russian Empire - such views are actively built by Khazin, Starikov and other politically deluded people. "They killed, so pray that we haven't killed you yet" - is this what Russian members of the forum want to say?
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +3
            3 January 2013 20: 53
            Your goal is probably to bring discord between the Russians and Kazakhstanis as much as possible.
      2. +3
        3 January 2013 16: 34
        Quote: nurker
        Who else is serving the Americans? Who is the first to copy everything American? Who is America's first lawmaker? who is getting dumb thanks to American programs and films?

        Who sold factories to foreigners for a penny? Who is the former Prime Minister of England as advisor? "who gets dumb with American programming and movies?" laughing
        1. Nurker
          -3
          3 January 2013 18: 58
          Quote: tan0472
          Who sold factories to foreigners for a penny? Who is the former Prime Minister of England as advisor? "who gets dumb with American programming and movies?"


          And what if I have an iphone Will you say that all Kazakhstanis have an iphone?

          Are you laughing at yourself?
          1. 0
            3 January 2013 19: 42
            Quote: nurker
            Are you laughing at yourself?

            I wanted to tell you that there is nothing to blame for the other, if the very face is crooked. You wrote
            Quote: nurker
            Who else is serving the Americans? Who is the first to copy everything American? Who is America's first lawmaker? who is getting dumb thanks to American programs and films?

            And if you want to throw off the blinders from your eyes - type in YouTube - "Nazarbayev Aliyev" and you will understand a lot (probably). hi
        2. Marek Rozny
          +1
          7 January 2013 02: 43
          Kazakhstan in 1991 did not have money. At all. Gold reserves remained in Moscow, and by 1993 the republic was drowned in Soviet banknotes, which were carried in KZ wagons. Yeltsin deceived Alma-Ata to the last about a single ruble zone, and in 1993 declared that new rubles were only Russian money, and let Kazakhstan scramble out Kazakhstan with tons of Soviet cash. How did you pay your salary? Soviet banknotes that were brought to us from all over the former USSR? The plants got up. And not from a good life, we had to give in to their foreigners, and lure investors. After all, the country was paralyzed. There was inflation in Russia, but the Russians did not even dream of the ass that happened in the financial sector of neighboring Kazakhstan. People began to flee the country. What the fuck is the national question, when there really was nothing to eat. Investors from the West we needed like air to re-launch our economy. An unpleasant fact for us, but what was, was. Kazakhstan mined a lot of gold, but everything settled in Moscow, and we had only a hole in our pockets. What are we to blame for now? We first printed the currency in debt from the British. They collected everything that they could give them for the first banknote, and then they printed it on credit. But then they got on their feet and showed investors who is the boss in the house. Read on the internet how Westerners are now crying for cruel Kazakh orders. We used to clatter with them, but now we ourselves will invest in anyone we want. Just six months ago, the Hungarian leadership came to Kazakhstan to ask for money. Although where were the Hungarians 10 years ago, and where are the Kazakhs.
          Well, Blair gets our salary, just like Schroeder feeds from Russia :)))) We also have lobbyists in the White House in the USA, and this is no secret :)))))
          Well, as for the films - look at the products of Kazakhfilm - we ourselves make good films - "Farah", "Gift to Stalin", "Shal" - and compare with Hollywood consumer goods;)
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            0
            7 January 2013 17: 19
            Why did you forget that "The Needle" with V. Tsoi was also filmed in the Kazakh SSR. A gorgeous film, a gorgeous acting game.

            Quote: Marek Rozny
            There was inflation in Russia, but the Russians did not even dream of the ass that happened in the financial sector of neighboring Kazakhstan.

            Are you probably drowsy?
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              10 January 2013 02: 59
              I was just in Russia at that time too.
    2. Marek Rozny
      +2
      7 January 2013 02: 30
      Quote: Strashila
      the little one, Nikita, distributed the original Russian lands to feed these aboriginal parasites, to date them at least from the budget of the USSR, and not to contain them at 100%.

      Write down specifically which "Russian" lands were transferred by Khrushchev to Kazakhstan?
      ZY Let me remind you that Kazakhstan was a donor to the union budget, not a parasite. 9 out of 10 bullets during the Second World War were made of Kazakh lead. What would you do without such a parasite ... fought back with your bum-bobs? And who restored the destroyed European part of the RSFSR, Ukraine and Belarus? Kazakhstan sent thousands of people, equipment, money, foodstuffs to eliminate the consequences of the war on your real "ancestral lands". My grandfather Temirzhan Syrlybayev personally rebuilt bombed Moscow from 1946 to 1948 after demobilization. So what? Are Kazakhs shouting about Russian parasites or demanding compensation for the drained resources of the rich Kazakh steppe? Maybe Kazakhs are asking for stew from Semipalatinsk cows to return, which the entire Soviet army ate, scattered from Vietnam to the GDR and Cuba?
      Take it easy. If the Kazakhs show the bill for oil, gas, metals, ores, uranium, meat and grain, then you will start hiccuping until you realize the whole figure.
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +1
        7 January 2013 17: 37
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Write down specifically which "Russian" lands were transferred by Khrushchev to Kazakhstan?
        ZY Let me remind you that Kazakhstan was a donor to the union budget, not a parasite. 9 out of 10 bullets during the Second World War were made of Kazakh lead. What would you do without such a parasite ... fought back with your bum-bobs? And who restored the destroyed European part of the RSFSR, Ukraine and Belarus? Kazakhstan sent thousands of people, equipment, money, foodstuffs to eliminate the consequences of the war on your real "ancestral lands". My grandfather Temirzhan Syrlybayev personally rebuilt bombed Moscow from 1946 to 1948 after demobilization. So what? Are Kazakhs shouting about Russian parasites or demanding compensation for the drained resources of the rich Kazakh steppe? Maybe Kazakhs are asking for stew from Semipalatinsk cows to return, which the entire Soviet army ate, scattered from Vietnam to the GDR and Cuba?
        Take it easy. If the Kazakhs show the bill for oil, gas, metals, ores, uranium, meat and grain, then you will start hiccuping until you realize the whole figure.

        As for your irony about the "Russian" lands, dear, who do you think before the Kazakhs lived on the territory of your Republic, where and in what century did they come and populate it, do you know? So if we talk about purely national territories, then this is not a grateful question.
        On December 5, 1936, the territory of the RSFSR was significantly reduced, since with the adoption of the new constitution of the USSR, the Kazak Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic and the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic were transformed into the Kazakh and Kyrgyz Soviet Socialist Republics, and the Kara-Kalpak Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was transferred to the Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic.
        Kazakh SSR in the 1950s of the twentieth century were transferred to the territory of the Orenburg, Astrakhan, part of the territory of the Ural region.
        Regarding how the Kazakh SSR sent thousands of people, we remember and are grateful for this, but do not forget that at that time there were fewer Kazakhs in the Kazakh SSR than everyone else, and it was not the Kazakh SSR that were sent by the people themselves, citizens of the USSR.
        Honor and respect for your grandfather. As for the "bombed-out" Moscow, it's time for you to stop watching Hollywood films, so as not to make people laugh in the comments.
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          10 January 2013 03: 37
          I know who lived in the Kazakh steppe in historical time. The clan of my mother, "Uisun", has been recorded in the Chinese chronicles since the first millennium BC. The family of my father "Argyn" came to the Kazakh steppes a little later. The movement of the paternal clan is recorded in the Arab, Iranian and Turkic chronicles. The population of Kazakhstan was first Saka, then Hunnish, all this mixed very quickly in a single pot, despite the fact that they were different peoples. Kazakhs are genetically half Saki (Central Scythians), half Turkic. By language they are Türks. I understand that this sounds fantastic for Russians, who usually do not even know what their great-grandfather's name was, but for Kazakhs it is normal to know the history of their own family for many centuries back. So your jokes about who lived in KZ and when - you don't even need to strain, any Kazakh, from a collective farmer to a professor, will tell you what kind of family he is, and where his direct ancestors lived fifteen hundred years ago. That is why the hell who can convince me of the Argyn that South Siberia is supposedly a Russian land, when only the Argyns lived here, and the Naimans and Kereis. At least read the Chinese chronicles, at least the Mongolian, at least study the ancient Turkic rune, at least read the notes of the Vatican ambassadors, which passed through my lands here on the road to Karakorum.
          2) Orenburg region, Astrakhan, Ural region - these are the lands on which the indigenous population are the Kazakhs. And the Russians are recent newcomers. Although for the majority of Russians the events of 1993 are already lost in the depths of history, but by Kazakh standards the Russians came to us "yesterday evening." The regions mentioned are the lands of the Zhagabayla, Nogaila, and Kipchak clans. Who still live there. As well as on the territory of the Russian Federation in the border zone. If the Orenburg region and the Ural region are primordially Russian lands, then where are the Russian names for this very river and its tributaries? I will surprise you, but there is not even a Russian name for the Volga. Volga is a Finnish word, and for Kazakhs-Tatars-Bashkirs it is the sacred river Edil (Ittil, Idel). And where is the Russian original name of the river? Maybe not, because the Russians came to lands that were already inhabited by someone, and they borrowed the names of the mountains and rivers from the local residents - the Finno-Ugric and Turkic peoples? So why the hell to write that these areas are primordially Russian? I don’t call the Baltic Sea primordially Kazakh land. We don't even have our own word for this sea. Well, why do you succumb to the cries of idiots and also begin to demand that the Kazakhs recognize the "generosity" of the Russian people who gave Kazakh lands to the Kazakhs? Yes, the city of Orenburg or Omsk itself was built by the Russians. But in the Kazakh lands. And as military bases, not cities. Why turn everything upside down, and assume that if in Petropavlovsk in the 19th century there were, say, only 300 Russians and all of them were soldiers of a military base, then why turn this fortress into a supposedly civil city, and call the soldiers indigenous Russian inhabitants? And even more so Astrakhan or Tyumen, which in general were in no way founded by the Slavs, namely the steppe inhabitants ...
          3) Kazakhstan sent people in the 40s. Then the Kazakhs were the majority of the population. Under Khrushchev, Russian immigrants became the majority in the Kazakh SSR. Do not confuse. And people did not go on their own to rebuild the country, but at the request of the respective republics on the orders of their republican Central Committee of the Communist Party.
          4) And about bombed Moscow - where does Hollywood movies have to do with it? Do you know such films of the USA, where the ruined Moscow is shown? Or just blurted out a word? And the fact that Moscow was bombed by German planes should have known. The city itself was not particularly damaged, but the surrounding areas suffered very much, because the Germans dropped the bulk of the bombs there.
          1. Beck
            0
            10 January 2013 13: 27
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            I know who lived in the Kazakh steppe in historical time. The clan of my mother, "Uisun", has been recorded in the Chinese chronicles since the first millennium BC. The family of my father "Argyn" came to the Kazakh steppes a little later.


            Marek has repeatedly said that most Kazakhs know their genealogical tree. To make it clear that this is what I’ll bring my own.

            tamga naimanov Naiman uranium - KAPTAGAY (cry)

            three large tribal associations of the Naiman tribe
            SARIZHOMART - - - - - TERSTAMGALY - - - - - - TOLEGET
            (terstanbals)
            tamga terstamgaly

            subgenus terstamgaly
            ACTAGYS

            TOKTAGUL Batyr
            Shokaman. Tanat. Cabaye. Samai. Aganasbatyr. Togonas. Otep. Culdibay. Zhalantas
            Shokaman
            Mayzhol. Kudabay.
            Mayjol
            Atanbay. UAIS. Kuanysh. Jienbai.
            UAIS
            Musamel. Nurpiya. Zeynel Gabit. Zeynel-Garap. Kadesh. Lukpan.
            ! ! ! ! ! !
            Light Marzia Temir Serik Yerlan Nazigul
            Naziya Bakhyt Gulnar Kulziya Bijan Askar
            Amantay Umutkul Azamat Nurlan Botagoz
            Saule Yerzhan Gulzhan
            Yerbol Seitan
            Talgat. Rayhan
            1. Beck
              0
              10 January 2013 14: 12
              It was copied incomprehensibly. I will write a new one. This is just for the idea, who are interested to know how it looks, about knowing your tree.

              Tribe Naiman. One of the four tribes that formed the basis of the troops of Genghis Khan.

              Three tribes of the Naiman tribe - SARYZHOMART. TERISTAMGALS. Slow down.

              The subgenus Teristamgaly AKTAGYS.

              Seven of my knees in Aktagys.

              TOKTAGUL BATYR. His sons.

              SHOCOMAN, Tanat, Kabay, Samai, Aganasbatyr, Togo
              1. Beck
                0
                10 January 2013 15: 28
                COMP has flashed. All incomprehensibly issued. Anyway. So be it.
  33. +8
    3 January 2013 15: 07
    And we invite people who have learned from such textbooks to our country. They will go to rob and kill us. And they will be sure that they simply take what is theirs, what the tsar and the USSR took from them in due time. I personally support healthy nationalism. To a stranger with respect, but do not give him a greyhound. I understand that many people here have friends from the CIS countries. But for many, this friendship will consist in "I won't hurt you." In the 90s, neighbors spoke of Russians in Central Asia and the Caucasus ...
  34. Oleg1986
    -3
    3 January 2013 15: 24
    That is, all this really seems ridiculous, and fairy tales about hyperborea and super-duper heroes are in the order of things. Oh well. You already decide.
    1. Nurker
      -6
      3 January 2013 15: 30
      Quote: Oleg1986
      That is, all this really seems ridiculous, and fairy tales about hyperborea and super-duper heroes are in the order of things. Oh well. You already decide.


      Oh, these tales, oh, these storytellers
      1. +4
        3 January 2013 16: 40
        Quote: nurker
        Oh, these tales, oh, these storytellers


        And here is a TRUE story. laughing fool
        http://www.zonakz.net/blogs/user/ospanov_galym-istorik/6767.html


        FOR ANCIENT KAZAKH, the word KIAT had a special meaning, because it was this name that was given to their capital cities, and this indicates the importance that Kazakhs attached to horse breeding.

        Therefore, we must consider the history of the emergence of some cities with the root of KIAT. .


        KIAT.-KIEV.

        In historical science, it is believed that in what is now Kyiv, settlements arose from 1500 to 2000 years ago.

        According to legend, at the end of V - beginning of VI century. AD, the brothers KIAT (Kiy), SHEKTY (Schek) and KARA OGYZ (Khoriv) and their sister AKKU - AK - KAZ (Lybed) chose a place on the slopes of the Dnieper and founded the city on the steep right bank and named it after the eldest brother, KIAT.
        The history of the origin of the Kiat (Kiev) princes from the RORIKOVICH-Normans has its own true explanation. .

        The fact is that the word NORMANNY is of Kazakh origin -NAR-camel, in the semantic meaning it is mighty, of great strength and MAN is a person. In "The Tale of Bygone Years .." NESTOR just mentions the NORMAN-NORMAN. BORYK this is the word VARYAG. THEY wore the headdress BORYK.

        In KIAT (KIEV), Khan AKSAK (ASKOLD) was seated on the throne, when at that time! R!

        ER! K (RORIK) was a mercenary. His squad was called berserkers - goat-wolves, bor-serek - fierce wolves. The name EP! K - means free. He, as the leader of the squad, bore the title KUNAN (KONUNG) and, as a mercenary, he visited many places in EUROPE, having come to NOVGOROD, married the daughter of the elder of this powerful city of KUSTAMYS (GOSTOMYSL). Strengthening your squad! R! ER! K (RORIK) is at war on KIAT (KIEV), AKSAK (ASKOLD), together with his brother, escapes from the city.
        So! P! EP! K (RURIK) sits in KIAT (KIEV). After his death
        heir will remain his young son AIGYR (IGOR), the guardian of ULA (OLEG)
        DARKHAN (TARKHAN), according to the annals, he was a brother-in-law! R! EP! Ka (RURIKA). DARKHAN (TARKHAN) is the post of the head of the military cavalry detachment-troops, ULS-GREAT.
        The next city in the European part of the GREAT STEP, namely in the CARPATHIANS was KIYAT (CHISINAU). Over time, KIAT transforms as KYSEN (CHERRY) - --PUTS for horses. And from this word in Russian it will be like the word STABLE.
        1. 0
          3 January 2013 18: 32
          Quote: tan0472

          Major General Avatar
          Offline
          tan0472 (2) US Today, 16:40

          Wow, buy! What a twist! This is the best comment in this thread!
          Could you, in this vein and for other "GREAT" ones, make a short excursion into the true history? wassat Giant plus. Regards, ULA GYURGENOVICH.
          1. 0
            3 January 2013 19: 33
            Quote: olegyurjewitch
            Could you, in this vein and for other "GREAT" ones, make a short excursion into the true history? Giant plus. Best regards - ULA GYURGENOVICH.

            You are not careful - I did not compose this "story", but copied it from the link - http://www.zonakz.net/blogs/user/ospanov_galym-istorik/6767.html
            "ULY GYURGENOVICH" - is it Oleg Yurievich? laughing
            1. 0
              4 January 2013 23: 29
              Quote: tan0472
              You are not careful - I did not compose this "story", but copied from the link

              Yes, it doesn’t matter that you didn’t make it up, the main thing is to live. Well, according to the link, U.G. somehow goes like that. In general, among the Kazakhs, each name, both male and female, has its own meaning or value. For example: Erbolat is a real man. But I don’t know how they choose the Russian name, parallel to the real name. But I’ll ask the Kazakhs for my friends.
        2. Nurker
          -4
          3 January 2013 19: 03
          Quote: tan0472
          http://www.zonakz.net/blogs/user/ospanov_galym-istorik/6767.htmlУ ДРЕВНИХ КАЗАХОВ слово КИАТ имело особое значение , ибо своим городам -столицам давали именно это имя , и это говорит о том , какое важное значение придавали казахи коневодству .Поэтому надо рассмотреть историю возникновения некоторых городов с корнем КИАТ. . КИАТ.-КИЕВ.В исторической науке считается , что на территории нынешнего Киева поселения возникли от 1500 до 2000 лет тому назад.ПО легенде, в конце V - начале VI в. нашей эры братья КИАТ( Кий), ШЕКТЫ(Щек ) и КАРА ОГЫЗ (Хорив) и их сестра АККУ--АК --КАЗ(Лыбедь) облюбовали место на склонах Днепра и основали на крутом правом берегу город и назвали его, в честь старшего брата, КИАТ.История происхождения киатских (киевских) князей от РЁРИКОВИЧЕЙ -норманнов имеет своё истинное обьяснение . .Дело в том , что слово НОРМАННЫ имеют казахское происхождение -НАР-верблюд ,в смысловом могучий , огромной силы и МАН-- человек . В "Повести временных лет.." как раз таки НЕСТОР упоминает о НАРМАНАХ -НОРМАНАХ. БОРЫК это и есть слово ВАРЯГ.ОНИ носили головной убор БОРЫК.В КИАТ (КИЕВ) восседал на троне хан АКСАК(АСКОЛЬД) , когда в это время !Р! ЕР!К (РЁРИК) был наёмником . Его отряд называли берсеркеры - волки-козоволухи ,бор-серек -лютые волки . Имя ЕР!К - означает свободный . Он как предводитель дружины носил титул КУНАН (КОНУНГ ) и как наёмник побывал во многих местах ЕВРОПЫ , придя в НОВГОРОД , женился на дочери старейшины этого могущественного города КУСТАМЫСА (ГОСТОМЫСЛА). Усилив свой отряд !Р! ЕР!К (РЁРИК) идёт войной на КИАТ(КИЕВ) , АКСАК (АСКОЛЬД) вместе с братом сбегает из города .Таким образом !Р! ЕР!К (РЮРИК) восседает в КИАТ(КИЕВ). После его смерти наследником останется его малолетний сын АЙГЫР (ИГОРЬ) , опекуном УЛЫ(ОЛЕГ)ДАРХАН (ТАРХАН) , по летописи он был шурином !Р! ЕР!Ка (РЮРИКА). ДАРХАН (ТАРХАН) это должность главы военного конного отряда- войска , УЛЫ- ВЕЛИКИЙ. Следующим городом в европейской части ВЕЛИКОЙ СТЕПИ , а именно на КАРПАТАХ был КИЯТ (КИШИНЁВ) . Со временем КИАТ трансформируется как КЫСЕН ( КИШЕНЬ ) - --ПУТЫ для лошадей . И от этого слова в русском языке он будет как слово КОНЮШНЯ.


          Dear, if you read such articles, then you do not respect yourself and you create the impression (image) of Kazakhstan (or Central Asia)
          1. +1
            3 January 2013 19: 28
            Quote: nurker
            Dear, if you read such articles, then you do not respect yourself and you create the impression (image) of Kazakhstan (or Central Asia)

            1) I read it by accident (looking for other information)
            2) Do you see the inscription on the fence, too, stop respecting yourself?
            3) What is CA?
            1. Nurker
              -4
              3 January 2013 19: 40
              Quote: tan0472
              2) Do you see the inscription on the fence, too, stop respecting yourself?


              The inscription on the fence does not mean any of my thoughts, they mean the thoughts of the one who wrote, and usually, a competent person does not write on the fence

              Quote: tan0472
              3) What is CA?


              Central Asia is Central Asia
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +5
                3 January 2013 19: 58
                Quote: nurker
                Central Asia is Central Asia

                Dear, if you didn’t write Central Asia, but Central Asia, it would be more understandable.
                1. Nurker
                  -4
                  3 January 2013 20: 02
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  Dear, if you didn’t write Central Asia, but Central Asia, it would be more clear


                  do not blame me, it happened
                2. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  10 January 2013 17: 49
                  Central Asia and Central Asia are different concepts. Even in Soviet times, Kazakhstan was not geographically included in Central Asia. Remember the weather forecasts on the Central Television: "In Central Asia and Kazakhstan + 5 + 15, snow in places ...")
          2. slava.iwasenko
            +3
            3 January 2013 19: 55
            And why are you really outraged, the myth that Russia conquered it has long been launched in Kazakhstan. And everyone is silent that the concept of Kazakh itself arose after the October Revolution (or, as it is now fashionable to say, a coup)
            1. Nurker
              -4
              3 January 2013 20: 04
              Quote: slava.iwasenko
              And only everyone is silent that the very concept of Kazakh arose after the October Revolution (or as it is now fashionable to say a coup)


              By this, you want to say that the Kazakhs appeared no earlier than the 1920s?
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +3
                3 January 2013 20: 46
                Kindly say "Kazakh" and "Cossack" are synonyms? I would like to hear your opinion.
                1. Nurker
                  -3
                  3 January 2013 21: 09
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  Kindly say "Kazakh" and "Cossack" are synonyms? I would like to hear your opinion.


                  I will tell you this: I will translate the people "Kazakh" into the Latin alphabet, since there is no hard letter "K" in Cyrillic and Russian. There will be "Qazaq" the sound K is pronounced as if chewed, similar to the Latin "Ku" Therefore, it was necessary to write Cossack, but the Cossacks were already subjects of the Republic of Ingushetia and therefore the union with the Kirghiz went and wrote Kirghiz-kaisak. Kirghiz is Kirg - 40, kiz - maidens, Kirghiz, according to their folk legend, descended from 40 beautiful maidens.

                  "Kazakh" - began to write after 1960, thereby finally separated from the Kirghiz-Kaisak
                  In general, the Cossacks are a free people, all those who wanted to live free from serfdom were accepted into the Cossacks, and the Cossack is a symbol of freedom, oddly enough, but "Qazaq" also means freedom, insubordinate. This does not mean that the Cossacks are Kazakhs, no, this is just a confirmation that Russia and the Kazakhs have a common common history and neighborhood, and not that the Russian emperors did not know what peoples live in the east, and so, stumbled upon them.
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +2
                    3 January 2013 21: 30
                    All this is very good, but I know what you wrote from academic sources.
                    But what about this information described below, I would like to hear your opinion.
                    “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”the President of Kazakhstan N. Nazarbayev said at the ceremony of raising the flag of the Turkic Council as part of the Kazakh-Turkish business forum in Istanbul (KAZAKHINFORM).
                    1. Nurker
                      -2
                      3 January 2013 22: 00
                      Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                      All this is very good, but I know what you wrote from academic sources. But what about this information described below, I would like to hear your opinion. “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”Kazakhstan President N. Nazarbayev said at the ceremony of raising the flag of the Turkic Council as part of the Kazakh-Turkish business forum in Istanbul (KAZAKHINFORM).


                      As to how the Turks called their Dzhigits, I don’t know for sure, but I don’t consider it my goal to unite with Turkey, because I don’t perceive their culture as Turkic, something mixed with Byzantium, Venice, Arabs, and other peoples, and from 1940- x Turkey is cleverly manipulated by the United States, set off like a dog. I think so, maybe because of the steppe mentality, I don’t know.
                      Kazakhs depart from the Kipchaks (Kimaks) There also (Tatars, Nogai, Karakalpaki, Bashkirs and more). In the Middle Ages, in Crimea, Kipchak, Georgians, and defeated peoples were sold as slaves. These slaves were prepared in Egypt like the Mamluks, because of their natural qualities, as were the Assassins in Iran, and the Turks at the dawn of the Ottoman Empire Great had problems with the Mamluks, like RI with the Cossacks, maybe that’s why the Turks exalt them like the Cossacks Russia.
                      Our president plays a very cool and serious game:

                      1. He is For a Nuclear-Free World
                      2. He is for unification with the Turkic peoples and the revival of the culture of the Turks. (Imagine that the Indians did not allow themselves to be destroyed and began to create an Indian state with a modern state apparatus)
                      3. He is for the unification of religions. Pope what is it worth
                      4. He wants the world to report more about a peaceful country where, until recently, there were no terrorist attacks. That is, with this, he wants to attract the world's investments to settle Kazakhstan
                      1. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +5
                        3 January 2013 22: 17
                        Something you did too deep an analysis of what you didn’t say so and what else you can think up what kind of transcosmic flights it is, exploring the galaxy, etc. etc.
                        Your president Nursultan Abishevich said everything briefly and clearly what he thinks about the period of Kazakhstan's accession to Russia. And the words of his Russians were hardly pleased. Again, this is the right of one or another state to choose its path, just after his words, conversations about friendship lose their meaning.

                        Quote: nurker

                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        All this is very good, but I know what you wrote from academic sources. But what about this information described below, I would like to hear your opinion. “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”Kazakhstan President N. Nazarbayev said at the ceremony of raising the flag of the Turkic Council as part of the Kazakh-Turkish business forum in Istanbul (KAZAKHINFORM).

                        As to how the Turks called their Dzhigits, I don’t know for sure, but I don’t consider it my goal to unite with Turkey, because I don’t perceive their culture as Turkic, something mixed with Byzantium, Venice, Arabs, and other peoples, and from 1940- x Turkey is cleverly manipulated by the United States, set off like a dog. I think so, maybe because of the steppe mentality, I don’t know.
                        Kazakhs depart from the Kipchaks (Kimaks) There also (Tatars, Nogai, Karakalpaki, Bashkirs and more). In the Middle Ages, in Crimea, Kipchak, Georgians, and defeated peoples were sold as slaves. These slaves were prepared in Egypt like the Mamluks, because of their natural qualities, as were the Assassins in Iran, and the Turks at the dawn of the Ottoman Empire Great had problems with the Mamluks, like RI with the Cossacks, maybe that’s why the Turks exalt them like the Cossacks Russia.
                        Our president plays a very cool and serious game:

                        1. He is For a Nuclear-Free World
                        2. He is for unification with the Turkic peoples and the revival of the culture of the Turks. (Imagine that the Indians did not allow themselves to be destroyed and began to create an Indian state with a modern state apparatus)
                        3. He is for the unification of religions. Pope what is it worth
                        4. He wants the world to report more about a peaceful country where, until recently, there were no terrorist attacks. That is, with this, he wants to attract the world's investments to settle Kazakhstan



                        1. In his speech there is no talk of this.
                        2.Is the Indians the Turks?
                        3.How is it?
                        4. A strange way of presenting the message, which is mainly about "despotic" Russia.
                      2. Nurker
                        -2
                        3 January 2013 22: 48
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        1. In his speech there is no talk about this. 2. Are the Indians Türks? 3. How is it? 4. A strange way of presenting a message, where the speech is mainly about "despotic" Russia.


                        I wanted to create a more understandable picture for you. And the fact that you are not an ally, you yourself said it.

                        In principle, the Indians have similarities with the Eastern Turks, Chinese, Koreans, but not the point, again, you will misunderstand.

                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of God, we proclaimed our independence in 1991

                        Speaking of the last Khan, Kenesara means this, his story is little known and incomprehensible to this day. Speaking about the fact that, due to the policy of tsarism, the Kazakhs lost their culture and language - it is a fact, today out of 100% of Kazakhs, Kazakhs speak a maximum of 50% or less, but here I must take into account that the tsarist policies themselves were also to blame then does not justify itself. Facts are facts, everything is so
                      3. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +4
                        3 January 2013 23: 15
                        Quote: nurker
                        I wanted to create a more understandable picture for you. And the fact that you are not an ally, you yourself said it.

                        That I am not an ally to whom, and when did I talk about this?
                        Quote: nurker
                        In principle, the Indians have similarities with the Eastern Turks, Chinese, Koreans, but not the point, again, you will misunderstand.

                        In principle, the Turks do not have much in common with the Kazakhs and even belong to different races, the Kazakhs are Mongoloid, and the Turks are Caucasian, (which by the way they do not deny). The Chinese, Koreans and Kazakhs are also different peoples within the same race, but with different ethno-psychological characteristics and linguistically differ very much.
                        As for the Indians, they are referred either to the Mongoloid race, or to the mixed type - the question is not unique, given that they greatly differed in their development within their ethnic-racial community.

                        Quote: nurker
                        Speaking of the last Khan, Kenesara means this, his story is little known and incomprehensible to this day. Speaking about the fact that, due to the policy of tsarism, the Kazakhs lost their culture and language - it is a fact, today out of 100% of Kazakhs, Kazakhs speak a maximum of 50% or less, but here I must take into account that the tsarist policies themselves were also to blame then does not justify itself. Facts are facts, everything is so


                        If Russia purposefully deprived the Kazakh people of its language, culture, religion, you would agree that it would have pursued a policy of Russification and assimilation. However, during the time of the Russian Empire, the Russian Language was not propagated by the Kazakhs, they were not discriminated against on the basis of religion. Soviet period: didn’t there be paperwork in the Kazakh SSR in Kazakh and it was not considered inside the republican? Is it not for this that the USSR created a written language for the Kazakhs on the basis of the Cyrillic alphabet. As for the loss of culture, the Russian people also lost much of their cultural heritage during the Soviet era, but for some reason he does not talk about it.
                      4. xan
                        +2
                        4 January 2013 03: 00
                        Quote: nurker
                        Our president plays a very cool and serious game:

                        1. He is For a Nuclear-Free World
                        2. He is for unification with the Turkic peoples and the revival of the culture of the Turks. (Imagine that the Indians did not allow themselves to be destroyed and began to create an Indian state with a modern state apparatus)
                        3. He is for the unification of religions. Pope what is it worth
                        4. He wants the world to report more about a peaceful country where, until recently, there were no terrorist attacks. That is, with this, he wants to attract the world's investments to settle Kazakhstan


                        your president has been playing too long
                        he has much more important tasks. Kazakhstan, in the production of products with high added value in physical terms, cannot step over 30% of the production of the Kazakh SSR. And oil and gas production increased 30 times. On a per capita basis, Kazakhstan exports 5 times more oil and gas than Russia. He needs to think about the house, and not "play a very cool and serious game."
            2. Marek Rozny
              0
              7 January 2013 03: 06
              do not distort, Glory.
              Kazakhstan really became a part of the Russian Empire on a voluntary basis. However, under certain conditions, which Russia later violated totally - the khan’s power was forcibly liquidated in the 19th century, which caused outrage of the last Kazakh khan, Russian immigrants at the very end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th began to send to Kazakhstan, selecting for Stolipians the best lands, breaking down the whole system of livestock husbandry, thanks to which the Kazakhs lived, and in 1916, the Kazakhs were forcibly taken away to the front work, although the Kazakhs became part of the Empire on the condition that the Kazakhs would not be attracted to the Russian endless wars. After a unilateral violation of all conditions of accession, the Kazakhs have the full legal right to speak of colonization. Moreover, everything was done on the Russian side deceitfully and clumsily. As a result, in 1916, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and others exploded in rebellion. Then the Bolsheviks already deceived the steppes, asking for help in the fight against the whites and persuading the Alash-Ordinians (leaders of Kazakhstan in those years) not to enter the war with the Bolsheviks, they say, we will destroy everything like garlic. But in the end, as soon as the Bolsheviks gained strength and completely seized real power in the KZ. Moreover, they vowed not to touch anyone on political differences. And as a result, by 1937, absolutely all the leaders of the Alash-Horde were shot, and just all the Kazakh intelligentsia that existed. Under the root. Completely. Including poets. They left only the ancient old Jambul, who praised Beria and Stalin. My mother’s great-grandfather was shot for being a bai and had a princely title (documents are still in the city museum of the city of Taraz) in the 20s, and my grandfather’s elder brother was shot on the father’s side in the 37th year as Japanese spy, although he was a railway engineer and never saw the Japanese in his eyes. Documents on his hands about his execution and subsequent rehabilitation received on hand only in 1995. In Kazakhstan, by 1937, everyone who had a pre-revolutionary higher education was killed. Even if they once fought for the Red power. And then they sent to the camp those who simply remembered the famine of the 20s, 32-33, the excesses of the Bolsheviks in the initial period, etc.
              The Kazakhs themselves are an imperial, Horde nation. We have never lived in a non-imperial world, since the time of the Turkic Kaganate we have always sought to create Empires. And they eagerly accepted the proposal to join the Russian and Soviet Empire, since any Kazakh still considers these states to be the heirs of our Golden Horde. But the naive steppes didn’t expect to be constantly fucking ... cheat in violation of all agreements. And there is no need to try to talk about the mythical rewriting of history, it is in Russia in every epoch that libraries are being rewritten, and in our country they even know the history of their own kind since ancient times. Read your Russian books about the colonization of Turkestan (I used the Russian term used by Russian / Soviet historians). Even pre-revolutionary Russian sources calmly write about themselves as colonialists, and about the Kazakhs as natives living on lands from which Russia can have "a bunch of nishtyaks."
        3. slava.iwasenko
          +11
          3 January 2013 19: 44
          Jacques zholdas! He served in KSAVO for a long time and only now at his home, in his small homeland, in the Kuban, from your scientific article learned that Russia came from the Kazakhs. My brother seems to me that we Kuban Cossacks did not come from the Cossacks, but from the Kazakhs and rightly call us Kuban Kazakhs, from tomorrow I will cook beshbarmak and cook kazy. wassat
          1. Marek Rozny
            0
            7 January 2013 03: 19
            The Kuban Cossacks have nothing to do with the Kazakhs, but the Tersky, the Don Cossacks are still vitally connected with the Turks. Kuban appeared recently, after the Russian army occupied Kuban, cutting out all the local peoples to the root. Suvorov not only climbed the Alps and beat the Turks in the Balkans, but also totally genocide by order of the empress all life in the territory of present Kuban.
            Well, it’s silly to make fun of the word “Cossack”. This is a Turkic word, what is there to argue. And the self-name of Kazakhs is Cossack. The word "Kazakh" with the letter "x" at the end was invented in Stalin's time, so as not to confuse us with Russian service people, to whom this Turkic word meaning "free man" was glued. However, other Türkisms in the Cossack language are above the roof: esaul, saber, saber, kuren, chieftain, horse, epancha, etc.
            So stay a Cossack, not a Kazakh. If only because in the Kazakh language there is no word "Kazakh", but there is only "Cossack", if he is going to be ironic :)))
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              -1
              8 January 2013 01: 01
              Dear, it is correct to say not even "Cossack", but "Cossack", since this class arose in the Zaporozhye Sich in Ukraine, after them other Cossack troops, for example, the Don, arose, but it consisted mainly of Great Russians, the raids of the Horde became the catalyst for its emergence ...
              Otherwise, the Cossacks are really connected with the Turks, after all, after hiking the Ottomans and dying with the Astrakhan, beautiful cossacks fell full of Cossacks. This is how some Cossack births received insignificant Turkic blood, but this did not change their attitude towards their enemies. By the way, the Kuban Cossacks are descendants of the Cossacks, just the first Cossacks.
              As for the word "Kozak", that it is Turkic, this is a controversial topic, rather it is a word of Iranian origin, Scythian. By the way, the Turkic language is replete with Iranisms, which is convincingly proved by Uv.bek.
              But I will add from myself to this piggy bank knowledge from the version of the Scythian term Cossack, here we can add the word hetman. "Get" in Ukrainian and other Slavic languages, "movement", "action", that is, "hetman" is a "leader".
              In a word, many Turkic words for verification can turn out to be Iranisms.
              P / S Cossack language does not exist, there are dialects of the Russian language and the Ukrainian language.
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                10 January 2013 04: 09
                1) "Kozak" - dialect pronunciation. Uzbeks, for example, pronounce this word as "goat". In general, this word was recorded in a heap of sources even before the Slavic Cossacks were formed. And they all describe exactly the Turkic free daredevils.
                2) I did not say about the genetic relationship with Tertsy by accident. I am from the Argyn clan, haplogroup G1 occurs in 90% of cases in representatives of my clan. The only subethnos in the world in which this haplogroup is found en masse is the "Russian" Terek Cossacks, in whom G1 occurs in 50% of cases. But the Terek Cossacks never took Kazakhs away to the full :)))) And among the Turks or Nogais, this haplogroup practically does not occur. It is also found among Iranians, Ossetians, Armenians in 10% of cases, but it is already clear there that the Horde inherited there quite a lot in their time :))) And the Tertsy, for some reason, do not have the haplogroup R1a like the average Vasya Ivanov, but the haplogroup, like the usual Kazakhs of Northern and Central Kazakhstan? Did your Terek Cossacks fall from the sky? Or, before the Argyns of Petropavlovsk and Akmolinsk, they made raids to distant Kazakhstan? But there were arguns in the Caucasus, all of Chechnya is in Turkic names, and the Chechens themselves know that they have several clans of Turkic origin (Chechens are also divided into teips, and they know who of what kind). Some of the Arguns remained not only in the North Caucasus, but also in the Crimea, where the Argynsky beylik was one of the main beyliks of the Crimean Khanate. All the local Argyns went deep into Turkey in the 18th century and in no way could the Terek Cossacks steal their women even theoretically.
                The word Cossack is exclusively Turkic. In Persian, this word is considered borrowed. And in the Turkic languages ​​this word is from Turkey to Yakutia, which did not come into contact with Iran. I'm not even talking about the fact that there was no such thing as the Cossacks in Iran at all. This is a steppe phenomenon. Yes, there are Iranisms in Kazakh language, a lot. But you are now about this completely out of place. For an Iranian, the word "Cossack" is the same primordial word as for a Russian the word "synchrophasotron" or "chakhokhbili".
                3) Regarding the word hetman :) The verb "ket" is translated from Kazakh as "go", "go away" in the imperative form :)))))))))) The infinitive "ketu" - "to leave". Examples: "Men kettim - I left", "Jaeger men ketsem - If I leave ...", "Bazarga kett! Go to the market!", "Maidanga kett! - Go to the front!" And in the Ukrainian "and other Slavic languages" the word "get" is found with the same root words? :))))))))))))))) "Get", which means in Ukrainian "go away, go" in an imperative form - another pure Turkism :)
                And what word is Iranism or Turkism - Kazakhs and Iranians themselves know. It is for you these words are not clear what origin :))))
        4. +5
          4 January 2013 02: 25
          Pluse !!! Goebbels is resting! I learned a lot about Kazakh history on this site lately. And how 60 thousand Kazakh batyrs drove Napoleon right up to Paris, and how Napoleon also had Kazakh batyrs, and how the Cossacks stole the name of an entire nation .... But to establish Kiev? Where are the descendants of ancient ukrov? Why are they silent? Probably numb. Kazakhs founded Rome and Athens too? Or is he still smoking? Damn, I’ll definitely buy a textbook on the history of Kazakhstan. On KVN come in handy.
          1. Kaa
            +3
            4 January 2013 03: 26
            Quote: There was a mammoth
            Or is he still smoking?

            Chui plan however wassat
          2. Beck
            +3
            4 January 2013 12: 50
            Quote: There was a mammoth
            Pluse !!! Goebbels is resting!


            What did you read from Tan so that you thought we had enough of your idiots? Just like you and Arkaim and your pseudo-historians. Nationalism is among all nations.

            But you look down on the true history of other nations. Like there was only Russian history, and the rest of the steppe and tumbleweed. And when, after perestroika, the works of Russian scientists began to be published on the history of the steppe, nomadic states, and their writing. Great Russian leaped at you. Do not you say. They were erratic goal. This is what we taught. Without us, everyone in the area would rot.

            Here, on this page, Kazakhstanis do not discredit the history of Great Russia, because it is great in world history. But other nations have their own history, albeit small, but their own. And do not behave towards them imposingly and scornfully.
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +1
              4 January 2013 14: 32
              Quote: Beck
              What did you read from Tan so that you thought we had enough of your idiots? Just like you and Arkaim and your pseudo-historians. Nationalism is among all nations.

              But you look down on the true history of other nations. Like there was only Russian history, and the rest of the steppe and tumbleweed. And when, after perestroika, the works of Russian scientists began to be published on the history of the steppe, nomadic states, and their writing. Great Russian leaped at you. Do not you say. They were erratic goal. This is what we taught. Without us, everyone in the area would rot.

              Here, on this page, Kazakhstanis do not discredit the history of Great Russia, because it is great in world history. But other nations have their own history, albeit small, but their own. And do not behave towards them imposingly and scornfully.


              And what does objective history (the example of Arkaim) and "nationalism" have to do with it?
              Russian schools don’t teach children that during the time of the USSR, the whole of southern Siberia, the historical part of VelikoRussia (RSFSR) with its Cossack population was included in the Kirghiz-Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. Moreover, these are vast territories where there were a minority of Kazakhs, there were much more Russians and Bashkirs, but for some reason, they did not get these territories. And notice the Russian Federation now do not claim them, although they have full historical right.
              But these are all particulars in a bygone story.
              You better answer how the citizens of Kazakhstan of Russian nationality should feel themselves, if their Fatherland and they themselves are called "occupiers" and "invaders", that this does not look like internationalism.
              I will be glad to know your opinion on this issue, in particular, Mr. of Kazakhstan of Russian nationality.
              1. Beck
                +1
                4 January 2013 16: 39
                Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                Russian schools don’t teach children that during the Soviet era, all of southern Siberia, the historical part of VelikoRussia (RSFSR) with its Cossack population was included in the Kyrgyz-Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic


                Clearly do not teach. In Min. Knowledgeable people are sitting in Russia. And here claims appear on the site - Give us Northern Kazakhstan. And what historical right does Russia have on these lands? Since when did more Russians live in Siberia (Tyumen, Chelyabinsk, Omsk)? 1000 years ago? 500 years ago? 200 years ago? They became larger only after the colonization of these lands by the Russian Empire.

                I have written many times. Our Russians feel fine. Since they know much more than Russian cheers-patriots in Russia. Nobody called you occupiers. You were just told that Russia in the colonial era behaved like other colonial countries, did not stand out much. But that is then. Now, after all, completely different times. And we had a Russian-speaking prime minister, and there were and are Russian-speaking ministers. Now in the Air Force, the Slavs serve pilots.

                And in order to somehow separate the grains from the Fomenkov chaff, I will lay out for everyone a brief excursion into the history of the settlement of the territory of present-day Kazakhstan by tribes and peoples.

                Pink is the ancestral home of the Indo-European peoples. Slavs, Germans, Romans, Indo and Iranian speaking peoples.
              2. Marek Rozny
                0
                7 January 2013 03: 35
                I don't know what textbooks are in Russia now, I studied in the Soviet RSFSR - so the textbook "on the history of the USSR", firstly, wrote practically only about the history of the Russian people. About the whole of Central Asia and Kazakhstan, only two pages were allocated, and it was written that, they say, the local aborigines groaned under the yoke of their bais and khans, but the Russian people, who themselves suffered from their feudal lords, rushed to save the Asians from their rulers, and when in 1917 he threw off the yoke of tsarism, then arranged an epic sabantui of progress in Turkestan (although the Russian people themselves were completely illiterate in their mass until Lenin forced everyone to "study, study and study again"). That's all that was written in the textbook "History of the USSR", then only briefly about the continuation of the sabantuy of progress in the form of virgin lands and Komsomol construction projects in general paragraphs, and the fact that residents of the European part of the USSR were evacuated to KZ during the war.
                But the history of Russia itself was presented plainly - all the neighbors of the Russian people are aggressors, and as a result, we conquest ...defensive wars reached Alaska. Well, and besides, the natives themselves went to the bright sun of Russian enlightenment. And even funny Chukchi 200 years fought against the Russian army all eyes glanced, waiting for the Russian enlighteners. Well, Siberia was also vividly mentioned - the glorious Ermak in the name of prosperity of the Russian land annexed Siberia, which suffered from its rulers, and now Siberia was originally Russian land, since the blood of the valiant husband Timofeyich, who gave his life for the sake of the happiness of the Motherland in battles with the hosts how come Kuchum, robbing his subjects.
                Now tell us about what lands do you interpret, hinting at their "Russianness"? Directly name the cities and regions of Kazakhstan, do not hesitate. And then we will look together at the census of the population of these regions in tsarist times. Let's see how many Russians, Bashkirs and Kazakhs are there.
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +1
                  7 January 2013 20: 04
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  although the Russian people themselves were completely illiterate for the most part until Lenin forced everyone to "study, study and study again"). IN

                  What it was, they really didn’t get along with the letter (especially on the example of the descendants of serfs, Gen. Denikin, Academician Vavilov, designer Yakovlev, designer Kamov, designer Shpagin and many other illiterate Russians), as well as the fact that some are so literate that until the 1930s, they didn’t even have their own written language.
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Only two pages were devoted to all of Central Asia and Kazakhstan, and it was written that, they say, local Aborigines were moaning under the yoke of their bais and khans, but the Russian people, who themselves suffered from their feudal lords, rushed to save Asians from their rulers

                  You are right, because before the Russians there were flourishing European cities, with centers of world engineering, but the "Russian barbarians" came and began to build their gloomy military factories.
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  About all of Central Asia and Kazakhstan, only two pages were allotted and it was painted that, they say

                  What are you worried about, for now you are telling Marak us very interesting stories.
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Atom, the history of Russia itself was presented plainly - all the neighbors of the Russian people are aggressors, and as a result of conquests ... defensive wars we reached Alaska. Well, and besides, the natives themselves went to the bright sun of Russian enlightenment. And even funny Chukchi fought against the Russian army for 200 years, all eyes overlooked, waiting for the Russian enlightenment. Well, Siberia was also vividly mentioned - the glorious Ermak in the name of the prosperity of the Russian land annexed Siberia, which suffered from its rulers, and henceforth Siberia was originally Russian land, since the blood of the valiant husband Timofeyich, who gave his life for the sake of the motherland’s happiness in battles with the masters, spilled there where did he come from Kuchum, robbing his subjects.

                  In exactly the same way, there was nothing that the Volga Bulgaria stood on the site of the Kazan Khanate, or that Kuchum, the ruler of Samarkand (if my memory serves me), captured Siberia by force, just as he went into predatory approaches to Russian cities and drove people full , then to sell them at the bazaars of Bukhara.
                  By the way, what does "Siberia" mean in Türks, do you know?
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Now tell us about what lands do you interpret, hinting at their "Russianness"?

                  You do not know that there is such a country called Russia?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    10 January 2013 04: 59
                    1) Let's not write down all Russians before the revolution in the Vavilovs and Lomonosovs. Until 1861, in Russia, most of the population in general were serf slaves. And at the beginning of the 20th century, 80% of Russians were illiterate or could only write their last name. These Stolypinites were sent to us. Read pre-revolutionary Russian sources about immigrants to Turkestan. Maybe then you will stop ulcerating. They didn’t send Germans from Estonia and St. Petersburg to the Kazakh steppe, but a hunger, which put a cross instead of a signature.
                    2) Here you are a fan of juggling. I tell you that the history of the peoples of the USSR was not studied at all in Soviet schools, and everything that concerned these peoples was contained in the lines that "the native was waiting for the Russian people, who would free him from the khan and bai" - and you stupidly begin to laugh about factories. By the way, under tsarism, the Russians did not build factories in Kazakhstan. Except for a few factories of the British and Germans. The factories appeared under Stalin thanks to the American Albert Kahn. Russian hard workers in the first two five-year plans were the same "ravshans and dzhamshuts" like the famous counterparts from "Nasha Rashi" under the leadership of the Americans and Western Europeans. I hope you know Kahn's name.
                    3) Kazan Khanate - the new name of the old Bulgaria. Like the Russian Federation - the new name of the RSFSR (and not the USSR). The ruling dynasty has changed and nothing more. The main population is the same settled and semi-settled Turkic Bulgars. Do not confuse with the army, which was the Kazan Khanate from among the nomads, who went on campaigns outside the Khanate. By the way, my ubiquitous clan of the Argyns and the Kazan Khanate was :)))) Until some time, the Argyns were an influential clan there, and accordingly were in the army of this Khanate. And then for some reason they went back to the Steppe long before the fall of this Khanate.
                    4) What are you worried about the seizure of power by Kuchum in Siberia? He took power from another Kazakh - the Khan of the Siberian Khanate Edyger. And so that they don't accuse me of registering everyone as Kazakhs without proof, I bring a document. In the "Bulletin of 1670" compiled by order of the governor P. I. Godunov it is said that when Genghis Khan conquered the State of the Khorezmshahs, "then one of the princes Kaisak horde, by the name of Taibuga, the son of Khan Mamyk, begged from Chinggis for his possession of places along the rivers Irtysh, Tobol, Ishim and Tura. Chingis entrusted him with the management of these regions ... "Let me remind you that Taibuga is Edyger's great-grandfather, who was thrown by Kuchum. This is a struggle between two Kazakh dynasties of Chingizids.
                    Well, what about hikes in Russian cities and the theft of prisoners - can you give more details? In which cities and in which year?
                    5) Siberia (more precisely Sub-yer) - literally "land-water", which means something like "Native land". The Russians have an analogue of this concept - "mother earth is cheese", where the word "cheese" means "water".
                    6) Russia and Russian land are different concepts. Tuva is not Russian land, but Tuvans. Tuva is Russian, not Russian, land. Tver - Russian land, but not Tuvan. Or Tuvinians do not have their own land, and the Tverians - it is everywhere from Kaliningrad to Iturup? :))))
        5. +1
          4 January 2013 10: 32
          He did not die with a laugh while reading.
        6. Marek Rozny
          +2
          7 January 2013 02: 46
          is this an official or at least recognized Kazakh historian wrote? what did you pull out some dregs? especially since it is a banter over Russian pseudo-historians.
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            0
            7 January 2013 17: 54
            Great respect to you that your posts have confirmed the article. Could you, in the scientific interest, attach a list of the books to which you refer.
  35. Nechai
    +3
    3 January 2013 15: 31
    Quote: mda-a
    I just don’t understand Zhirik-Jew (by his father's last name Eidelshtein) and pours mud on the west. Strange ...

    A skilled worker joined the project 5Upr.KGB, "protest op-POSITION" and became a watered long-liver, and not poor. Vsega protests against the government and continuously supports it. After all, you have to be able to dodge like that.
    Quote: Beck
    I learned the real story only after the collapse of the USSR

    Dear every new ruler (ruling class) shows people the most distant story.
    Preparations for tearing up the USSR began, long before the arrival of those tagged into the Kremlin. Let me remind you of only one aspect. At the 25th (?) Congress of the CPSU, the plan for the creation of the fuel and energy complex - territorially economic complexes was voiced, and then naturally implemented. This idea was served under the sauce of increasing the survival of the Union’s economy, when the outbreak of the 3rd World War. In reality, the borders of the fuel and energy complex coincided (is it strange, right?) With the borders of the national republic, which allowed them to survive the gap between the integration lines inside the union relatively painlessly. It is necessary to remind WHOSE MONEY was created all this production and transport systems?
    1. Nurker
      -4
      3 January 2013 21: 41
      Quote: Nechai
      In reality, the borders of the fuel and energy complex coincided (is it strange, right?) With the borders of the national republic, which allowed them to survive the gap between the integration lines inside the union relatively painlessly. It is necessary to remind WHOSE MONEY was created all this production and transport systems?


      And the fact that these territories were divided so long ago that any country could leave the union ... you hide it
    2. Beck
      +2
      5 January 2013 12: 08
      Quote: Nechai
      It is necessary to remind WHOSE MONEY was created all this production and transport systems?


      For Union money taken from the budget of the USSR. Fuel and energy complex coincided with the borders of the republics. So it was more convenient to manage them. Create a fuel and energy complex in the territory with different administrative management - Part of Ukraine, part of Belarus, part of the Baltic. And what, do you think it would be viable?
  36. +3
    3 January 2013 15: 36
    the answer to the title of the article will be brief, in the words of Valery Krasovsky


    History is incorruptible, but interpreted in different ways. good
  37. +4
    3 January 2013 16: 03
    Maybe we need to write that our enemies live both in the south and in the Baltic states, that at one time they conquered the land that belonged to Russia, and why they are shy
  38. +5
    3 January 2013 16: 11
    If the former brothers would be offended and stop traveling to Russia in whole villages, they would hate us for so much that they wouldn’t come to the border for a hundred kilometers. And then they will surely have a golden age. And let their children be taught what they want.
    But in practice it will be as usual: the strong will force the weak as he wishes. And the same historians will once again rewrite history, in accordance with the current situation.
  39. +6
    3 January 2013 16: 32
    Gentlemen, it always happens everywhere. Amerov is taught that the USSR began the war and that he also dropped the atomic bomb. The information war against Russia has been going on for a long time. Are we the aggressors? Azerbaijan - Persians and Turks. Similarly, with Georgia. She herself asked to be part of Russia at the time. I’m not talking about other countries - Ukraine is generally a frame - they write in textbooks that Ukraine is the oldest state in the world, but they destroyed it! Breeeeater!
  40. +2
    3 January 2013 16: 37
    Well, then you have to win the new war that is starting now. At the same time, we will correct history books.
    1. IGR
      IGR
      +2
      3 January 2013 17: 36
      ... such is the fate of the Empire. Elephant and Pugs. Everyone is used to freebies, including former subjects. And Russia has only three allies - the Army, Aviation and Navy.

      "History is the secondary raw material of politics." L.V. Shebarshin
  41. 0
    3 January 2013 17: 04
    If someone thinks that history began to be rewritten after the collapse, they are mistaken. 22 years ago I read a popular science brochure (one hundred pages), in which the author casually mentioned that Armenian archaeologists destroy the skulls of ancient burials (located on the territory of Armenia). The author could not expand this topic apparently for ideological reasons (nevertheless The USSR was not going to fall apart yet)
  42. +12
    3 January 2013 17: 12
    I don’t want to tell you how the Kyrgyz love to savor how humanity came from them or how they love to compare Homer with local storytellers and improvisers. They just got this name in 1936. In the 19th century they were called wild-stone Kirghiz or locally Karakirgiz, in the 18th and early 19th century this mixture of Mongolian and Turkic tribes was called Buruts. History is replaced by ridiculous tales composed about ourselves and these tales are naturally attributed to great antiquity. The current president of the Kyrgyz once said that the Kyrgyz used to own the territory from Baikal to Tibet and the Caspian Sea. for which he received a nickname on the Internet - "Kirgitler". In general, a thick book is not enough to list such insanities. It's just that all this is due to the fact that comrades who are trying to create their own history on such a basis cannot but feel their deep moral damage.
  43. rocketman
    +5
    3 January 2013 18: 13
    Quote: Sakhalininets
    The USSR did not, in contrast to the enlightened impudent Saxons, French, Germans, Spaniards and other colonial powers, carry out a policy of exterminating the population on colonized lands.

    Maybe in vain. I would be alive and well now, comrade of the USSR, and Russians wouldn’t be poured mud anywhere. And then these pillows of gratitude will not wait!
    Quote: bukyak
    Ie, in your opinion, I invented it?! ..... Here's what is written below in my post, it's all in the DOCUMENTS, that is, it's not my invention, it's our story, and the real reality! And if the TV did not talk about this for 20 years, then this does not mean that all this does not exist! The winner in the war (no matter what the war is), first of all seizes control of ALL the media for rubbing the population of his PROPOGANDA, only not directly "rules", but through the protégés - GUSINSKY, KHODORKOVSKY, BEREZOVSKY and rochi ... . How do you think the scientists of the Soviet research institutes became BILLIARDS?

    Quote: bukyak
    . So, ONLY after the Second World War, Russia became 150% SOVEREIGN !!! ........................... AND YOU, if you want, then keep thinking that all this happened by itself, well, or just someone wanted something there!

    Quite right, I will subscribe to every word. We will never unite as long as our “elite-rulers” keep their money in foreign currency in Western banks and teach their children there.
    1. 0
      5 January 2013 19: 39
      In the same way, I subscribe to every word. I’ll only add - and so far these crazy stories are being driven into my head.
  44. +1
    3 January 2013 18: 35
    Quote: Фкенщь13
    But in practice it will be as usual: the strong will force the weak as he wishes. And the same historians will once again rewrite history, in accordance with the current situation.

    Yeah, and ordinary people will suffer. nobody wants to fight, especially to prove someone else's right.
  45. +5
    3 January 2013 18: 35
    Formerly friends of Russia will instantly rewrite their history only if the vast majority of Russians live an order of magnitude better than them. We will immediately recall the fraternal inextricable ties with the Russian people and stand in a line jostling for entry and patronage into the Russian Empire. And it will be soon! We, contemporaries, will witness this.
  46. +6
    3 January 2013 18: 38
    I respect the opinions of all commentators. I share the need for unification. For me, the word "EMPIRE" is extremely positive.
    Now about the results. What is written in the article is the result of losing the Cold War. Both the title and the facts given in the article are eloquent confirmation of this. Moreover, if we have the resources and capabilities for mobilization and reconstruction, backed by nuclear weapons and appropriate technologies, then look what happened to the granary - the territory called "Ukraine", or to the "facade of the USSR" - the Tribaltika. I hope that it will be possible to squeeze the occupiers out of the primordially Russian lands. I would like to return to Dresden as part of the 1st Guards TA, and also to Berlin and Vienna, Prague and Budapest, to Focsani and Apsheron, Gangut and Helsingfors.
  47. +5
    3 January 2013 18: 40
    Yeah, so they tortured them all, and now they climb to live with us. Masochists are some kind.
  48. stranik72
    +5
    3 January 2013 18: 42
    Quote: Yeraz
    many are already citizens of Russia, including 90 percent of my relatives. but how it is connected with books. they write what was. they do not write that it is bad in Russia.

    [This is very, very bad, I would like you and your relatives to live in Azerbaijan and come to visit on a visa and for no more than 10 days. Tolerance is a disease and it can only be treated surgically, and Russia is slowly coming to this and that it is necessary to cut everything that has gone away alive in 1991, it has to be recognized as an axiom at this historical stage. Now it is necessary in every possible way to raise the native Russian regions on the territory of the Russian Federation and the Russian people, and all the rest only by visa, an exception only for the Slavs and those nationalities that are part of the Russian Federation. And history books, well, for something the people need to educate new countries, here Russia is the very convenient option that you can safely bark at the same time knowing that if it always helps them without asking anything for it.
  49. +6
    3 January 2013 18: 48
    In all this historical epic, it would be nice to recall a joke about a sparrow, a cow cake and a cat.

    Once upon a time there lived a cheerful sparrow, but cold came - the sparrow froze and prepared to meet death. But the shepherd drove the cows along the road where the frozen sparrow was lying, and one cow’s cake fell right on the sparrow. Sparrow warmed himself up in a cow’s flat cake, made out ... But a passing cat heard him, took it out and ate it.
    Morality:
    - Not everyone who cheated on you - ENEMY
    - Not everyone who got you out of shit - FRIEND
    - If you are sitting head over heels in shit and you feel warm - THEN SIT AND DO NOT CHIP!

    I don’t know how others have it, but here, crooks write history either (passage to the Verkhovna Rada - under the flag of a patriot), or botanists. Businessmen-politicians, or not at all prehistory, or passed it at other universities!
  50. +9
    3 January 2013 18: 54
    Russia is obliged to repent of the occupation of many countries. The Russians must help overcome the consequences of their occupation. It is clear that long-term aggression against their neighbors cannot be compensated for by everyone at once. We can start with Azerbaijan - they have already shown that the Russian occupiers are in their throats and they are ready to live without Russia. The Russian Federation must free all the scientists, engineers, philosophers, and prominent figures of the arts who were taken prisoner, who are held in inhuman conditions in concentration camps, mockingly called "markets" and "wholesale bases", must relieve them of the backbreaking labor of selling burned vodka and rotten fruits. Russia has no moral right to continue to mock poor Azerbaijanis by imposing medicine and education on them, which loathe the freedom-loving highlanders. Russian barbarians have no right to continue to interfere with life, imposing wild rules of behavior, hygiene, and normal speech. What are the only requirements to know the state language ... The Russian Federation is obliged to stop imposing its citizenship, and the vicious practice of forcibly keeping proud Azerbaijanis in the queues of the FMS. am
    Russia is obliged to release all Azerbaijanis back to Azerbaijan
    Well, please, remember Stalin and Beria - we do not need a "fifth column" of representatives of an essentially hostile state, especially since no really useful people came to us - there will be enough merchants among the Russians.
    1. stranik72
      +3
      3 January 2013 19: 44
      You forgot to mention in your essay such an undeservedly forgotten path of labor of this unconditionally proud people, as a service in the RF Armed Forces. I think that they must also be saved from this excessive burden, a suitcase-station-Baku, here I am ready to subscribe to this slogan.
      1. +2
        3 January 2013 22: 30
        The stubborn desire of the enslaved for public service in Russia was repeatedly mentioned - this is the worst thing, it is necessary to prohibit access to public service for citizens of the Russian Federation, at least in the first generation - the so-called. "residency qualification"
  51. 0
    3 January 2013 19: 12
    TROUBLES of the people. And this is exactly what is perfectly consistent with the general line of the most powerful Western media, which spend gigantic sums on anti-Russian propaganda. To combat this phenomenon, which is already global in nature, it is necessary to create our own powerful media that actively pursue Russia’s policies, cleanse them of the supporters of liberal-gamecratic Western values ​​that exist there, and toughen the policy towards the newly-minted detractors of Russia (there is no place for tolerance and politeness here). The adoption of a law similar to the “Dima Yakovlev” law, but in relation to particularly retiring Russophobes from the CIS countries, may also be very effective. Every Russophobic attack must be answered in such a way that it DOESN’T HAPPEN!

    TROUBLES of the people. And this is exactly what is perfectly consistent with the general line of the most powerful Western media, which spend gigantic sums on anti-Russian propaganda. To combat this phenomenon, which is already global in nature, it is necessary to create our own powerful media that actively pursue Russia’s policies, cleanse them of the supporters of liberal-gamecratic Western values ​​that exist there, and toughen the policy towards the newly-minted detractors of Russia (there is no place for tolerance and politeness here). The adoption of a law similar to the “Dima Yakovlev” law, but in relation to particularly retiring Russophobes from the CIS countries, may also be very effective. Every Russophobic attack must be answered in such a way that it DOESN’T HAPPEN!

    TROUBLES of the people. And this is exactly what is perfectly consistent with the general line of the most powerful Western media, which spend gigantic sums on anti-Russian propaganda. To combat this phenomenon, which is already global in nature, it is necessary to create our own powerful media that actively pursue Russia’s policies, cleanse them of the supporters of liberal-gamecratic Western values ​​that exist there, and toughen the policy towards the newly-minted detractors of Russia (there is no place for tolerance and politeness here). The adoption of a law similar to the “Dima Yakovlev” law, but in relation to particularly retiring Russophobes from the CIS countries, may also be very effective. Every Russophobic attack must be responded to in such a way that
    1. +5
      3 January 2013 19: 14
      Should Russophobes be banned from entering Russia? Don’t tell me - the Russian Federation doesn’t give a damn about them. But to slow down ALL people entering from a particular country, even for a couple of months, and to slow down the transfers of money earned on construction sites, markets, in courtyards, etc. - this is the argument. I think that in two days the Russophobes will sit on their asses from the people’s howl. Even if they don’t sit down, we’ll get rid of some of the migrants...
  52. djon3volta
    +3
    3 January 2013 19: 16
    They are simply jealous of Russia. They are jealous that we have the largest territory, even without the former satellites, incredible reserves of hydrocarbons, renewable resources in the form of forests, the largest reserves of fresh water, the entire periodic table is there, the population is not small and the territory is at least *eat enough.. What else can the poor people do, they write all sorts of heresy in their little books.
    1. +3
      3 January 2013 19: 41
      Quote: djon3volta
      incredible reserves of hydrocarbons, renewable resources in the form of forests, the largest reserves of fresh water, the entire periodic table is there...

      If there were more of these treasures of mind and conscience, and less show-off, then they would definitely be envious.
  53. +7
    3 January 2013 20: 57
    Well, I’ll add a few words of my own, and maybe I’ll repeat something because... this topic is close to me.
    Indeed, the authorities with enviable persistence are trying to denigrate the role of not only the USSR, but also Russia in particular. They are silent about the benefits of being in the Empire and the USSR like partisans (don’t you bitches walk along the roads and live in houses built during the “occupation”?! Or maybe you have equipment in hospitals, schools and everywhere else new, which you yourself immediately riveted upon gaining independence?! YES, everything was built here under the USSR. Those who captured or “occupied” you, to some extent, lifted you a millimeter from the plinth. You yourself can do almost nothing. If it weren’t for Russia, they would still be sitting in their villages and villages). Some schoolchildren, and even students, generally describe everything something like this: Moldova was not in the Russian Empire. It was only captured by the Turks and in alliance with Romania. And she became involved with Russia only when she was captured.
    Well, the absolute truth is written in the article about the origins of World War II. This is how everything is presented here. Moreover, they do not focus so much on victory in this war, but on repression and equating the USSR with Nazi Germany.
  54. Ostanin
    +10
    3 January 2013 21: 19
    Eh, “great Ukrainians”, “Azerbaijani-Sumerians”, “Scythian-Turkmens”....When this is all over, your head will spin...Russian barbarians enslaved them all, built factories, cities, brought agriculture to their feet, They built ditches and a field irrigation system. My paternal relatives until 91, when well-known events took place, lived in Central Asia - Kazakhstan - Chimkent, Tajikistan - Taboshar, Turkmenistan - Bezmein, Ashgabat, leaving houses and apartments, some for nothing, some for pennies, crying burning tears with a question for what??? Why are they doing this to us?! Grandmother Raya from Tajikistan said - we taught them to go to the toilet while sitting, to put it mildly, to eat with a fork and spoon, we built factories and cities for them, we ourselves worked in all these industries, and they are like this with us.... Miraculously, everyone left, fortunately they settled well in Russia, starting everything from scratch at the age of 50... all the “greats” who saved them from the Turks, Persians, the Lithuanian Order, etc., forgot. they forgot, thanks to whom they still speak their language and “remember” their history, albeit with delusions of grandeur....Happy New Year, dear forum users. I hope I live to see this heresy sink into the abyss....
    1. Marek Rozny
      0
      10 January 2013 17: 54
      Kazakhs owe Russians as much as Russians owe Kazakhs. and I don’t know from which Lithuanian orders or Persians the Russians saved the Kazakhs, but Kazakhs died everywhere in the fields of Russia.
  55. Vladislav
    +1
    3 January 2013 21: 28
    It seems to me that we took us in the wrong direction, for the umpteenth time...
    We look far away, but in our own house we don’t pay attention to anything.
    If you are not lazy, read the Wikipedia article “Salavat Yulaev”.
    If you're too lazy, I'll explain briefly:
    Salavat Yulaev - leader of the Bashkir rebels during the Pugachev era. He fought against the legitimate authorities with weapons in his hands at the head of armed detachments. participated in many battles with regular troops.
    Currently, Salavat Yulaev is the main national hero of the Republic of Bashkortostan. Those. The robber and rebel were elevated to the rank of hero. They teach his “life” in schools during the lessons of the “national component of education”, organize competitions and events named after him, etc.
    And you say: Armenia...
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      7 January 2013 03: 42
      How old are you? In Soviet times, he was still promoted precisely as “the leader of the Bashkir rebels against tsarism.” Like, the best friend and ally of Emelyan Pugachev. I lived in Orenburg and we were educated in a RUSSIAN school with Russian teachers using Russian textbooks on Pugachev and Yulaev. So the Bashkirs are not inventing anything supposedly with the aim of annoying Russian imperial feelings. In Soviet times, he became the official hero of the country, and not just the Bashkir people.
      By the way, the Russian authorities really got sick of the Bashkirs at that time. At least read Soviet materials, if Bashkir ones irritate you by default.
  56. +2
    3 January 2013 21: 40
    Why are we outraged!? You read our history, which is taught in schools. My hair stands on end. Well, the “history” of these “great” states is clear, but what did they do with the history of Russia?
    1. Ostanin
      +6
      3 January 2013 22: 12
      They did the same thing with our history as with theirs - only in reverse. my nephew is studying English in the 3rd grade, tasks and texts similar to those I took in the 7th-8th grade, and history, I am sure, will be presented to him in a way that is demeaning to the Russian people. what can we say if in modern textbooks on the same history the battles of Kursk and Stalingrad are allocated 2, 3 paragraphs at most, and entire pages are devoted to the opening of the 2nd front by the “allies”... it’s sad. Our task is to tell the still immature minds of our children who is who....
  57. +3
    3 January 2013 21: 51




    VERY INTERESTING!!!
  58. Ostanin
    +6
    3 January 2013 21: 57
    They downvoted it, the first damn thing was lumpy. Apparently the truth hurts my eyes...Well, I’m waiting for the law on the visa regime to come into force from 15, let’s see how these “great Sumerians and Scythians” start singing.
  59. gribnik777
    +9
    3 January 2013 22: 08
    The Ukrainian version of the origins of the modern nation should also be recognized as fantastic.


    A selection was posted on one of the Ukrainian forums insanity:

    “Ovid wrote poetry in the ancient Ukrainian language” (E. Gnatkevich “From Herodotus to Photius”).


    “Ukrainian mythology is the most ancient in the world... the ancient Ukrainian language - Sanskrit - became the foremother of all Indo-European languages” (S. Plachinda “Dictionary of Ancient Ukrainian Mythology”. Kyiv. 1993).


    “The Ukrainian language is the antediluvian language of Noah, the most ancient language in the world, from which the Caucasian-Japhetic, Proto-Hamitic and Proto-Semitic groups of languages ​​originated” (B. Chepurko “Ukrainians”. Kyiv, 1993).


    “Ukrainians are an ancient nation that invented the wheel... 40 years before the birth of Christ, geometry was used in Ukraine. The Sumerians (proto-Ukrainians) were the first people to use hieroglyphs, which they invented more than 000 years ago... it has been proven that the Bactrian camel was first domesticated in the vicinity of Kyiv around 5000 BC. e., the distant ancestors of the Ukrainians tamed the horse more than 2000 years earlier. All these data led researchers to the conclusion that Kyiv must be at least 2300 years old...” (Excerpts from various sources.)
  60. +8
    3 January 2013 22: 08
    Russia is bad, not democratic, despotic - but why the hell is everyone sticking to it? Why does everyone need something from her? Why don’t they sit in their homeland (small or big, it doesn’t matter) and drink tea with their Western friends?

    Well, Gerard Depardieu asked for Russian citizenship. At noon, the GDP signed a Decree granting him Russian citizenship.
  61. +4
    3 January 2013 22: 14
    What can’t you write for money! This is an indicator of the corruption of the intelligentsia! And they will throw mud at my mother without thinking....
    In 1975, the USA decided to collapse the USSR using nationalism, youth and the corruption of the intelligentsia
  62. +10
    3 January 2013 22: 39
    Last spring I went to Tashkent for a month on business. I accidentally came across my nephew's history textbook for grades 8-10, I don't remember exactly... I wouldn't wish SUCH BS on anyone in a nightmare!!!!! Out of indignation I almost had my tower blown down!!! All these "presidents" of the CIS are to be judged and impaled with Gorbachev!!! Especially Karimova!!!!!
  63. Ostanin
    +4
    3 January 2013 23: 57
    I also often, what can I say, always, meet at the migration service (I register Ukrainians for work in the Russian Federation), where these “great Scythians and Sumerians” receive citizenship and work permits in the Russian Federation. Often, almost always, they do not know Russian and can write in it at the 1st grade level. I help these “great ones” fill out the applications correctly, not out of kindness, but because one “great one” takes a queue for half an hour... why don’t these “great ones” work in their “great” homeland, since they are like that great. Seeing these people of Central Asian appearance in Voronezh, I’m scared, okay, Ukrainians, Belarusians are going to work, indeed, specialists with worker categories 5-6, and these “great” are neither “B” nor “ME”, but with the awareness that they are great....it’s a shame for us, Russians, including Belarusians and Ukrainians, Tatars, that we can unite only under the threat of our destruction, and we turn a blind eye to these antics of the “greats”...maybe this is greatness Russian people. In my opinion, it is necessary to introduce a visa regime with Central Asia, or dictate terms to them as enslavers, as they say about it, and let them remain silent. if they had preserved what the Russians left them, having fled from their republics without pants, having worked there all their conscious lives, they would have been great, as they say, but now I feel sorry for them, looking at these “great Sumerians and Scythians” . It’s a shame for all the Russians who are without a homeland and without a flag, we look only at their “great” neighbors.
    1. -1
      4 January 2013 00: 10
      Ostanin,
      You want cheap apartments and houses but don’t want cheap labor, how can you achieve this?
      1. Ostanin
        +1
        4 January 2013 00: 50
        We are not building apartments, but a strategic object. The Ukrainians of our company are very expensive - a white salary and, accordingly, all deductions to the Pension Fund and the Social Insurance Fund come from the real salary, and they receive a lot of 40 thousand per season. So do the math. Russian workers also work well, but, unfortunately, they have no experience in constructing such facilities. With the collapse of the Union, not only unique industries “left” the Russian Federation, but also unique workers. That's it...And I won’t buy an apartment from those construction companies that build with the help of the “greats” (I plan to do so this year). I have been working in construction for a long time - if the company does not have connections with government agencies, the objects built by these citizens are not accepted by the state commission. Like this.
        1. +2
          4 January 2013 00: 59
          You know, all construction companies use their services, don’t fool yourself
          1. Ostanin
            +3
            4 January 2013 01: 30
            I'm not fooling myself. There are none at our construction site, not because they are migrants (Ukrainians and Belarusians are the same migrants, although they work for us), but because they do not have the knowledge that is needed. So I’m planning to buy an apartment on the secondary market. And not all companies use their services, as you say; companies that are firmly on their feet and care about their reputation prefer to use qualified labor, which the “great and ancient” do not include. And there’s no need to say that without them, well, there’s absolutely nowhere, it’s nonsense. Any large-scale construction project commissioned by the state, or borrowed funds from credit institutions, is work according to estimates, in which payroll rates, believe me, are considerable, take into account everything you can imagine. If the company has a good estimate department and work execution department, and if you add capable suppliers, then such a construction project is a bonanza for the company’s management. These citizens are used either by sub-sub-subcontractors or by companies whose motto is - after me, come the flood.
          2. Ostanin
            0
            4 January 2013 02: 03
            I'm not fooling myself. Ukrainians and Belarusians are also migrants, but they work with us. Russian citizens also work, but they have no experience in constructing complex hydraulic structures; unfortunately, the “ancient and great” are not at the construction site, not because they are migrants, but because they do not have the knowledge and skills that are needed. The customer (the state) monitors the progress of construction very carefully, especially the quality of workmanship. As you say, their services are used either by unscrupulous performers of work, or by companies for which the motto is - after us, even the flood. Any construction under the order of the state, or with the use of borrowed funds, is not carried out chaotically - take the object - build - give money, but according to the estimates, where the prices for payroll, by the way, are approved by the state, are considerable. They (prices) take into account everything you can imagine (preferential length of service, all contributions to funds, travel allowances, shift work, complexity of work, secrecy, etc.). If the company has a competent estimate department, a production department, and capable suppliers, any construction project is a bonanza for the company’s management. Companies that care about their reputation and place in the market prefer to use qualified labor, which the “ancients” do not include.
            1. xan
              0
              4 January 2013 03: 12
              Quote: ayyildiz
              You know, all construction companies use their services, don’t fool yourself


              the difference in the salary of a guest worker or a non-guest worker has little effect on the cost of a square meter for the buyer, one might say it has no effect
        2. +1
          4 January 2013 05: 41
          Strategically, the facility in Novovoronezh, as I understand it, eats them there too.
      2. max-02215
        0
        10 January 2013 12: 48
        ayyildiz, this is a rut, thanks to you the apartments will not become cheaper, without your help people worked on construction sites, received salaries and earned pensions, but thanks to you there were no more salaries or pensions
  64. +5
    4 January 2013 00: 11
    Anecdote:
    In commemoration of the revolutionary events on Maidan Nezalezhnosti, it was decided
    erect a monument. Around the pedestal there will be a historical triptych:
    statue of Khmelnitsky the Elder kissing the boots of the Turkish Sultan,
    a statue of Mazepa kissing the boots of the Swedish king and a statue of Bandera,
    kissing the boots of the German Fuhrer. Above all this splendor there will be
    towering cyclopean figure of President Yushchenko licking his anus
    to the US President. The inscription on the monument: “Ale with whom, tilki not with
    yami". According to the creators, the monument will clearly represent
    historical continuity of independent thought.
  65. +3
    4 January 2013 00: 32
    In November, he crossed Georgia in transit from Turkey to Kabarda. For a long time I couldn’t find a road map. Only in Batumi, in a bookstore among school textbooks and atlases, did I find a map of the administrative division of Georgia with a very primitive road map. But the history of the country was briefly outlined there:


  66. +4
    4 January 2013 01: 01
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Do you want to say that we lost to whom? If you are talking about the US victory in the Cold War, then this is a feast victory, and it’s difficult to call it such

    This mantra about losing in some incomprehensible Cold War is completely irrelevant to me. Have we signed any surrenders? Maybe our NATO troops have brazenly occupied something somewhere?
    Has anyone heard any official statement about the fact that we lost something to someone? Or is there a Peace Treaty with America/NATO after some war? Where are the documents?
    Dreamers from overseas blurted out something, local traitors picked it up, and for some reason we repeat this nonsense. Funny
    1. xan
      -1
      4 January 2013 03: 19
      exactly
      I believe that we have freed ourselves from unnecessary ballast
      Well, so that it becomes clear to everyone what Russia means to everyone together and to everyone individually.
      Let these clowns write their stories, that’s all they have left, they don’t know how to do anything else.
      1. Nurker
        0
        4 January 2013 03: 49
        Quote: xan
        Let these clowns write their stories, that’s all they have left, they don’t know how to do anything else.


        Yes, you allowed yourself a lot, nominate yourself for a PhD
  67. zs23wesdgggg
    -3
    4 January 2013 02: 44
    It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://2qu.ru/poisksng database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...
    1. +1
      4 January 2013 03: 13
      Do not distribute SMS traps!
      You might get into trouble!
  68. +2
    4 January 2013 04: 03
    They rolled out the Ukrainians and Georgians and other former compatriots in their tails and manes, but somehow our marvelous historians didn’t get around to it.... At least they extol their own peoples, but with us it’s like a competition - who is cooler than the Russian people and their will throw mud at history! We begin to debunk feats and give all sorts of assessments! To hell with them, with independent historians and scribblers (the dog barks, the caravan moves on), let’s figure it out on our own!
  69. 0
    4 January 2013 07: 47
    Yes, we have these historians ourselves who studied over the hill, and now help rewrite history a dime a dozen, they receive grants for this, but this is the destruction of the foundations of the state, where the office and other bodies
  70. +2
    4 January 2013 12: 22
    This is all called an information-ideological war against Russia. With the help of such textbooks, personnel are trained for such a war. It’s good that they wrote about this; such facts cannot be hushed up. With the help of such “textbooks” history is corrected in Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, and the Baltic countries..
  71. Agronomist
    +2
    4 January 2013 12: 56
    Gentlemen, moderators, where did you put the “bukyak” comments? There was nothing prohibited in them. Or is the United Russia resource stifling freedom of speech? wink
  72. stranik72
    +4
    4 January 2013 12: 56
    There is little good, but these are their countries and their textbooks; first of all, we should understand our history and our textbooks. What can we talk about if one “great” prime minister said that Stalin had nothing to do with the victory in the Second World War? We do not have an ideology for the exaltation of our people; on the contrary, we again preach internationalism, albeit now through the economy, but it is there, look at the standard of living in some Caucasian republics.
    I would ban entry into the Russian Federation for members of the Freedom Party from Ukraine, those scribblers who preach the “bright” image of Bandera. I would announce a 10-year moratorium on granting citizenship to Azerbaijanis and Armenians, we have enough of our own bandits, and we know how to trade. Not easy times await us and it is better to meet them with our people than with these “great ones”.
  73. +3
    4 January 2013 14: 25
    I gave the article a plus. The questions in the article are asked correctly.
    And the position of the former Soviet republics is between two chairs.
    And they really want to eat and therefore are in the strong economic embrace of “occupying” Russia, but at the same time, lacking intelligence and other talents, the leadership of states cannot provide a decent standard of living for their citizens, who go to work in Russia in the tens of thousands.
    And therefore, the political elite of these countries, in order to cover up their lack of professionalism in governing states, maintains the image of an enemy in the form of Russia and Russians.
    Here the Kazakh hamsters are trying to prove to everyone what is written in their fantasy history.
    Let's say in 1992, when the city of Ermak (Nene Aksu) of the Palodar region, horsemen demolished the monument to Ataman ERMAK, they wrote in all seriousness that Ataman ERMAK and his comrades were “an occupier of the Kazakh people,” to which historians pointed out to them that:
    a) In the XNUMXth century, such a nation “Kazakhs” did not exist.
    b) Ataman ERMAK “occupied” the lands of the Siberian Khanate, whose population consisted of Siberian Tatars, Khanty, Mansi, etc.
    c) ERMAK’s squad conducted military operations in the Tyumen and Tobolsk region.
    The truth was hidden elsewhere in the stupid malice of the Kazakh Nazis towards the Cossacks. For in Kazakhstan it performed the functions of internal troops and severely punished any “national liberators” who raised themselves with British money or simply like the famous Amangeldy Imayev in 1916 with the aim of robbing the Russian-Slavic population. In Soviet times, he was presented as a fighter against tsarism, but in reality everything was more prosaic. If anyone doesn’t know, the peoples of Asia did not serve in the Russian Imperial Army, but in 1916, Kazakhs began to be mobilized to the front for the construction of engineering structures (digging trenches, etc.). And so the Kazakhs, who did not want to work for the good of the “occupying” Fatherland, rebelled and took up what they loved, plundering the villages of Stalypin settlers and Cossack settlements, knowing that the bulk of the male population fought on the fronts of the First World War, including my great-grandfather, a Cossack officer. To pacify him, the emperor had to remove from the Western Front several Cossack regiments of the Ural, Siberian, Orenburg and Semirechensk troops, as well as infantry regiments and an artillery division. These forces literally destroyed this entire crowd of bandits in just a month.
    Therefore, everything in the first comment is written correctly.
    "Russian barbarians, occupiers and stranglers of proud peoples burst into villages, auls and camps, leaving behind cities, hospitals, schools, plants, factories and railways."
    1. -2
      4 January 2013 17: 16
      GOLUBENKO,
      in the 16th century, Kazakhs existed, and Kazakhs fought against the tsarist yoke, this is a fact. Tsarist Russia was strong at that time and, like Genghis Khan or the United States, or Western Europe, began to colonize nearby territories and this is also a fact. On the planet, the weak is ALWAYS wrong. So when you say you bring happiness to the Kazakhs, Kyrgyz or Uzbeks, in fact the goal is to capture new territories. And as I already said, the world is moving towards balance. And empires always collapsed on their own (it is not clear why). Nor the wild peoples of Central Asia, who learned to go to the toilet with the help of Russians smile , neither the Georgians, nor the Azerbaijanis, nor even the Baltic states collapsed the USSR... and so.
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +1
        4 January 2013 18: 34
        It seemed strange to me that the Kazakhs and the Tsar’s Yoke fought together against the Dzungars, and the Senior Juzes and the Younger Juzes themselves became part of the Empire. But they were included as Peoples, and not as territory. For nomads, the concept of territory is blurred. Today there is food here for horses in the steppes of China, well, tomorrow the imperial Chinese troops arrived and drove them out, they went to roam to the Orenburg steppes. If the Russian Empire had been a colonialist, it would not have equalized the rights of its subjects.
        P/S In the 18th century, the Russian government subsidized about 50 million rubles per year to Central Asia. A strange act for the “invaders”.
        1. Ura-patriot
          -1
          4 January 2013 19: 18
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          It seemed strange to me that the Kazakhs and the Tsar’s Yoke fought together against the Dzungars, and the Senior Juzes and the Younger Juzes themselves became part of the Empire.


          The final defeat of the Dzungars was inflicted by the Manchu-Qing Empire and this region is called Qin Xian. There is no need to say here that the Republic of Ingushetia helped and saved the Kazakhs and the like.

          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          If the Russian Empire had been a colonialist, it would not have equalized the rights of its subjects.
          P/S In the 18th century, the Russian government subsidized about 50 million rubles per year to Central Asia. A strange act for the "invaders"


          There is no information anywhere about the allocation of these rubles and most likely they were allocated for the Russians to develop the steppe and move east, because The Western campaign was beyond Peter's strength. Who and how did she equalize? And what about the raids of the Bashkirs, Cossacks, Tatars, who were already a protectorate of the Republic of Ingushetia? This did not happen.

          Where do you get this information from?
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +1
            4 January 2013 19: 58
            Quote: Ura-patriot
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            It seemed strange to me that the Kazakhs and the Tsar’s Yoke fought together against the Dzungars, and the Senior Juzes and the Younger Juzes themselves became part of the Empire.

            The final defeat of the Dzungars was inflicted by the Manchu-Qing Empire and this region is called Qin Xian. There is no need to say here that the Republic of Ingushetia helped and saved the Kazakhs and the like.

            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            If the Russian Empire had been a colonialist, it would not have equalized the rights of its subjects.
            P/S In the 18th century, the Russian government subsidized about 50 million rubles per year to Central Asia. A strange act for the "invaders"

            There is no information anywhere about the allocation of these rubles and most likely they were allocated for the Russians to develop the steppe and move east, because The Western campaign was beyond Peter's strength. Who and how did she equalize? And what about the raids of the Bashkirs, Cossacks, Tatars, who were already a protectorate of the Republic of Ingushetia? This did not happen.

            Where do you get this information from?

            Sorry, but in my opinion you are a Russophobe. We are Russians and Kazakhstanis, fraternal peoples, and people like you are splitting our friendship.
        2. Marek Rozny
          -1
          7 January 2013 06: 03
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          It seemed strange to me that the Kazakhs and the Tsar’s Yoke fought together against the Dzungars....etc.”

          1) And how did Tsarist Russia fight the Dzungars for the happiness of the Kazakh people? How many weapons did she supply to the Kazakhs, at least for money? How much food and horses? In what famous battles did Russian soldiers fight in the Kazakh steppe with the Dzungar conquerors? How did Russian fortresses shelter Kazakh refugees on Kazakh land? Tell us, don’t be shy, drive the Kazakhs into debt to the Russian army. I am listening really carefully.
          2) Isn’t the term “territory” blurred among the Russian peasants? That is, the serf Vaska clearly knew where the borders of his Russian state were. Well, or at least the provinces? :))) Why are you confusing sour and salty? Khanates are ordinary states. Although the economy of the main ethnic group lived at the expense of the meat industry, which in the conditions of the medieval steppe could only be in the form of transhumance livestock farming. But the boundaries of the states were known, because the steppe people roamed not just anyhow, but from century to century along the same route - winter-spring cat-summer cat-autumn cat. And any neighbors who “just” decide to take a fancy to this or that hill will certainly come into conflict with the local clan, which uses the pastures of this area at a certain time of the year. The Dzungars and Kazakhs beat each other to death for centuries because of the limited pastures (yes, the territory still seems huge, but the steppe people always had giant herds. I clearly know where my family lived for the last thousand years (and my mother’s family for a couple of thousand years) , and here you are making up a blizzard about the “blurring of the territory". Moreover, even if you take academic Russian works, you can easily be convinced that any Kazakh grandmother will tell you more accurately from memory where her Uysun ancestors lived or where the Naiman lived. Stop imagining what the steppe people are like They were tumbleweeds by the gypsies, or don’t confuse them with our armies, which regularly went to different parts of the world.
          3) Tell us in more detail about the Chinese troops who expelled the Kazakhs from the Chinese steppes.
          4) Are you hinting that the Orenburg steppes are “originally Russian land”? Please name me all the tributaries of the Urals and tell me which of these hydronyms are of Slavic origin. And then take the trouble to explain why the supposedly “originally Russian” river does not have historical Slavic names.
          1. Marek Rozny
            0
            7 January 2013 06: 06
            5) Regarding the attitude of the Russian Empire towards foreigners:
            Ilminsky wrote in 1885: “For us, what would be appropriate would be for a foreigner to get confused and blush in a Russian conversation, to write in Russian with a fair number of errors, to be a coward not only of governors, but also of every government official.”
            And here is a letter from one high-ranking official to the Orenburg military governor, Count Sukhatelin: “I am not enticed by the hyperbolic desires of philanthropists to settle the Kyrgyz (Kazakhs), enlighten them and raise them to the level occupied by European peoples. I sincerely wish that they never sow grain and never knew not only science, but even crafts."
            And you wouldn’t even bother about “equal rights”. In 1905, Nicholas II issued a manifesto on the creation of the State Duma, but some peoples, incl. Kazakhs were deprived of the right to vote. At the very beginning of the election campaign, local authorities were given special instructions on the categorical exclusion of Kazakhs from participating in elections. This caused indignation among the Kazakhs. In July 1905, a petition was signed to the Tsar demanding that Kazakhs be allowed to work in the State Duma. In particular, it contained the following lines: “Why should engaging in pastoral culture deprive the Kyrgyz of the right to vote, when engaging in trade, agriculture, fishing and other crafts does not deprive such a right?”
            Russian officials had an extremely negative attitude towards the preparation of such documents. Here is a letter from the military governor of the Semipalatinsk region to the steppe governor-general dated July 19, 1905: "... The preparation by Kyrgyz societies of petitions similar to the above sentence cannot be allowed under any circumstances."
            So what did you want to tell about the rights of Kazakhs in the Russian Empire?
            6) Come on, come on, about 50 million rubles a year to some Central Asia in the 18th century... Are you not confusing anything? Let's tell us in more detail which region of Turkestan and on what needs the Russian Empire spent money in the 18th century :))))))))) I can’t even imagine what kind of Disney Worlds, according to you, the Romanovs were going to build at that time: )))))))))))) I will understand if you meant 5 thousand rubles, and not 50 million. And not in the 18th, but in the 19th century. And not for the “natives”, but for subsidizing Russian migrant peasants :))))) Come on, tell us where you got such funny numbers :)
            1. 0
              7 January 2013 06: 14
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Are you hinting that the Orenburg steppes are “originally Russian land”?

              Isn't there enough land for you? Does the government of Kazakhstan have territorial claims against Russia in Orenburg? No, that means that’s it - the topic is closed!!!
              1. Beck
                +2
                7 January 2013 18: 42
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Isn't there enough land for you? Does the government of Kazakhstan have territorial claims against Russia in Orenburg? No, that means that’s it - the topic is closed!!!


                They said it right. This is the only way the jingoistic patriots should be told from the very beginning. They are the ones who start moaning that they don’t have enough land. Why give the northern regions of Kazakhstan and they don’t hesitate to add the word “primordial”, not caring about history or not knowing it at all. They should have been told this from the very beginning.

                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Isn't there enough land for you? From the government of Russia I have complaints territorial to Kazakhstan in the northern regions Kazakhstan? No, that means everything - topic closed!!!


                And then when they start explaining to the jingoistic patriots the absurdity of their claims and citing as an example, counterarguments, you suddenly realize. Logically, first they try to reason with those who started talking nonsense.
              2. Marek Rozny
                0
                10 January 2013 17: 59
                Ooooh, Alexander! I'm impressed by you! You are the first Russian on this forum who proposes to close the topic of borders :)))))))) Other Russians raise this topic through a post. You see, they dreamed that half of Kazakhstan was historically Slavic lands. And when you bring them the royal censuses, they are silent and simply minus. Finally, at least one Russian from Russia suggested closing this topic! I'm in favor with both hands. Would you recommend this to other Russians?
      2. +1
        4 January 2013 21: 52
        Quote: Forget
        . And as I already said, the world is moving towards balance.

        And I have already said, and I will repeat it again for you, when it comes to balance, the Kyrgyz, Kazakhs and others like you will again catch gophers in the steppe and beg for glass beads from us.
        1. 0
          4 January 2013 22: 14
          cherkas.oe,
          Dear excellent student, the word will come is written without the letter Y.
          and your production of glass beads has long been discontinued, so first set up production wink
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +1
            4 January 2013 23: 14
            Quote: Forget

            cherkas.oe,
            Dear excellent student, the word will come is written without the letter Y.
            and your production of glass beads has long been discontinued, so first set up production

            Dear glass beads are yesterday, now is the time of Hi-Tek. So, we will set up production of technologies.
          2. +1
            5 January 2013 17: 48
            Quote: Forget
            and your production of glass beads has long been discontinued, so first set up production

            But you’ll still catch gophers, you can’t get away from it.
      3. 0
        10 January 2013 12: 47
        Quote: Forget
        And as I already said, the world is moving towards balance.

        I'm afraid you and I won't see this balance. The ideal equilibrium is a world supranational government. Oddly enough, those same collapsing empires brought balance to the conquered territories.
    2. Ura-patriot
      -2
      4 January 2013 19: 44
      Quote: GOLUBENKO

      "Russian barbarians, occupiers and stranglers of proud peoples burst into villages, auls and camps, leaving behind cities, hospitals, schools, plants, factories and railways."


      There is no need to develop an attitude of disgust and ridicule of other peoples.
      For that matter, weren't the Germans a significant influence? Wasn't it Europe that made you shave? Wasn’t it Stalin who was able to deftly vary and create at least something that became the Most Terrible Weapon? If this is the case, then express your gratitude to the Georgian people for giving birth to such a wonderful Stalin. Express gratitude to the Jews for the fact that Putin exists, who saved Russia from complete collapse, or have you forgotten those disorganized times?

      There is no need to beat your chest so proudly and ridicule any nation.
    3. Marek Rozny
      +2
      7 January 2013 04: 52
      Golubenko,
      1) if you don’t know that in the 16th century there had long been a Kazakh Khanate and a nation - the Kazakhs, with whom the Russian tsars also communicated, which is reflected in numerous diplomatic correspondence, then these are the problems of your education. You merged there too, but here you decided, under the noise of chauvinists of all stripes, to grunt again about your beloved Ermak.
      Ivan the Terrible, having sheltered the opposition of the Kazakh Khanate in Moscow (two sons of Sultan Khak-Nazar, who fled from Tauekel, who became the khan of the Kazakhs), boasted to foreign guests that soon the entire Kazakh Khanate would enter his kingdom. Then, realizing that the Khak-Nazar descendants had no influence on the Kazakh Horde, he stopped entertaining himself with illusions. Although the native nephew of the Kazakh Khan Taukel, Uraz-Mukhammed, who was deceived into Russian captivity during the capture of the Siberian Khanate, actually served in the Russian army, became the “establishment” of the then Moscow, and during receptions he sat on the left hand of Ivan Vasilyevich. Tell the spirit of Ivan the Terrible that the Kazakhs did not exist, he would laugh at you.
      2) Regarding the “Siberian Tatars”. Let me remind you that the ethnonym Siberian Tatars is artificial, invented by the Russians. Not a single Turkic people has ever called themselves Tatars. Only by the 20th century did Crimeans, Volga residents and Siberians become accustomed to being called that way. The clan composition of the “Siberian Tatars” completely coincides with the clan composition of the northern Kazakhs - Naimans, Kereys, Argyns, Zhalaiyrs. And right up until the 19th century, the Russians themselves called the inhabitants of the former Siberian Khanate “Siberian Kirghiz” (let me remind you that in the 19th century the Russians called the Kazakhs Kirghiz, and the real Kirghiz themselves - Kara-Kirghiz).
      Here is a map of the Siberian Khanate:

      Where you discovered “originally Russian lands” in the rear of the Kazan Khanate is a mystery to me. And why suddenly the Kazakhs do not have the right to their history is also a mystery of secrets.
      3) Tyumen and Tobol - Russian or Turkic names? Do you know that Tyumen (more precisely Chingi-Tura) was once the capital of the Uzbek Khanate? The Uzbeks are not those who are now settled Uzbek sarts in Tajik striped robes, but real nomads who took the name of Uzbek Khan. And then the Russians stuck this name on the sedentary Sarts and Tajiks of present-day Uzbekistan, since real historical Uzbek nomads once lived there too (now the Kurama clan of modern Uzbeks).
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        7 January 2013 04: 55
        4) Amangeldy Imanov. Did he rob the Russians? It’s strange, but do you remember where the Russians came from on the territory of Kazakhstan by 1916? I remember. Until the end of the 19th century, there were no Russians in the Kazakh steppe, except for the soldiers and Cossacks. And then Stolypin decided to send the former serfs, who had suddenly become free people, but without land, to the Kazakh steppe. And at the end of the 19th century, the first Russian colonists appeared in Kazakhstan, for whom they began to urgently confiscate land from the Kazakhs. Who is the robber? Who is the occupier? Kazakhs??? You will also call the Belarusian partisans robbers of good-natured Germans. Read Russian pre-revolutionary sources regarding the forcible seizure of land from the Kazakhs! And then there are Soviet materials on this topic! Don't read Kazakh books, only Russian ones! Maybe then we’ll slow down on this issue. The Russian army rammed the Kazakhs, who began to resist the fact that they were being pushed out of their native land into barren lands where nothing grew! And this despite the fact that the Kazakhs were completely unarmed by this time. The Kazakhs were even forbidden to sell knives, because the tsarist authorities were really afraid that the Kazakhs would buck. And even with ancient wick multuks and homemade cold water, the Kazakhs in 1916 killed Russian soldiers, Cossacks and settlers, although, of course, they lost more of their own in battles with PUNISHERS (the term of all Russian sources, so don’t freak out). And how did your punitive forces SUDDENLY kill the “bandits” if Imanov fought with the Russian punitive forces right up to the overthrow of tsarism? And then he also gave lyuli to those who had repainted themselves as white Cossacks. Until he was shot by other Alashorda Kazakhs, who considered the Bolsheviks their enemies. Do you write your own story? And why is this “Kazakh anger” “stupid” towards the Stolypin occupiers? Should I have given them all my land and left and drowned myself? Have you read at least one pre-revolutionary book on this topic or a Soviet source? Or did you pick up articles about “Kazakh nationalists”? And in what source did you find that Imanov was engaged in robbery? Please provide at least some source.
        By the way, the son of the supposed “robber” Imanov died as a Red Army soldier in the battles for Ukraine with the fascist occupiers. And Imanov himself, let me remind you, died establishing Russian Bolshevik power at the hands of the Kazakhs themselves.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          7 January 2013 04: 56
          And why should we blame the indignation of the decree of 1916, if there was a clear agreement between the Russian government and the Kazakhs that the Kazakhs would not be forcibly recruited into the Russian army under any circumstances. Only voluntarily. Which of these two parties is the buffoon and the deceiver? Kazakhs or Tsarist Russia? Even at this moment, you are slandering the Kazakhs, making them out to be scoundrels and traitors, although the royal authorities are definitely deceivers. Why the hell did the Kazakhs have to participate in a war they didn’t understand, considering that no one attacked Russia, but just two kings had a fight. During the War of 1812, thousands of Kazakhs volunteered; this has already been discussed on the site. But the Kazakhs didn’t give a damn about WWI. This is a Russian showdown, and even the Russians themselves were not eager to fight in this war, which was demonstrated by the complete disintegration of the Russian army by 1917 and the subsequent revolution. Have you confused Kazakhs with peasant serfs? They would send their own Stolypinites to dig trenches in an incomprehensible war. What kind of claims are there against the Kazakhs? Did we somehow violate any agreements? Or did Russia try to cheat the Kazakhs? Use your head, otherwise you will go crazy on the topic of “the sanctity of everything that the Russian government has done in history.” Here you are strange people - all the experts talk about the oppression of the Russian people under tsarism, about the horrors of Stalinism, and when a non-Russian says the same thing in relation to his people, you instantly turn into an inadequate mass of “Silence, sheep herders! Russian history is sinless!” Until 1917, the entire Russian people, except for a tiny stratum, was illiterate and unwashed (take a break from popular prints and read the Russian classics), and were hysterical with their favorite cliché about “railroads and factories in villages and villages.” The idea to build Turksib was simple - the transfer of troops and the export of cotton to Russia. And the factories were originally raw material factories. And even those were built not by the Russians, but by the British and Germans. Why are you turning on the fool? I’m generally silent about hospitals and schools - the tsarist government did not build anything like that in the Kazakh villages. Except that in the 19th century, Tashkent, Orenburg and Omsk began to admit Kazakhs to Russian military universities. And then in very limited quantities and usually only the offspring of the sultans. Look at the history of schools in the Turkestan region before the revolution - practically only Russians studied there. They built it for their own people. In order for a simple Kazakh to receive more or less a university education in the Russian Empire, he either had to graduate from a Russian school in Russian with a gold medal or be a freaking rich person to pay for his education. And even this became possible in the last decade of tsarist power. The Kazakhs were interested in the Russian royal power within the limits of military translators and intelligence officers in Muslim countries, who were trained in Orenburg and Omsk. As for the rest, the Kazakhs were considered as interfering ballast, because of which it was not possible to quickly and easily provide land to their Stolypin starving people.
  74. Ura-patriot
    +1
    4 January 2013 17: 21
    I don’t understand why the Russian elite needs to create conspiracy theories against the Russian people:

    1. Some are shouting, here they are, the CIS countries have taken everything from us and are not giving it back
    2. Others shout, there was no colonialism, we simply let down the neighboring monkeys from the branches, just as Cyril and Methodius once let us down from the branches, and they like to call this the word civilization. "We brought civilization, they are proud"
    3. Still others shout - These are all Jews, Masons, America is to blame. They shout that there is a conspiracy theory against Russia, the evil faces of this world hate Russians because they are God’s chosen people. Hitler's times were better and they are answered, no, Stalin's times were better.
    4. The fourth shout, no, there were no Europeans, no Chinese, no blacks, no Turks, but we, the Great Tartary, were just evil Germans. They changed our history and brainwashed us. And so God himself created us so that we would rule the Earth

    Friends, wake up, all this is not there, don’t fall for the tricks of political agitators
    1. +2
      4 January 2013 19: 27
      Remind me who said that Russia owns Siberia unfairly! There are many such statements in the West, and they not only speak but also act, so you missed the mark with the conspiracy theory.
      1. Ura-patriot
        0
        4 January 2013 19: 33
        Quote: Setrac
        Remind me who said that Russia owns Siberia unfairly! There are many such statements in the West, and they not only speak but also act, so you missed the mark with the conspiracy theory.


        What is a conspiracy theory? explain yourself
        1. +2
          4 January 2013 20: 16
          There is a desire to take away resource-intensive territories from Russia, there are concrete actions in this direction, there is no conspiracy, they are acting against us openly, cynically.
          1. Ura-patriot
            -2
            4 January 2013 20: 48
            Quote: Setrac
            There is a desire to take away resource-intensive territories from Russia, there are concrete actions in this direction, there is no conspiracy, they are acting against us openly, cynically.

            Then Who wants to take it? What actions are there? Do people want to take it? or does the Russian bureaucracy itself distribute? Are you sure that you have “enemies” in the very rear? What shows do you watch?
            X-Files on MirTV?
            Or RenTV? or NTV and TNT? maybe ORT showed it? No, TV3? Oh yes, it was broadcast on the radio.
            Did you read it in the newspapers? or KOB reported? Harvard Project
          2. Marek Rozny
            0
            7 January 2013 05: 17
            gee, Russia “legally” seized Siberia from the Turks, who call it, along with the current Mongolian steppe and Altai, the cradle of the Turkic people. Only one people can rob Siberia “cynically” :))))))
            The one whose history is sinless, and all interaction with neighbors was exclusively defense-peace-loving and aimed at the development of the aborigines :))))) This is understandable - take Siberia away from Russia, and the entire budget of the country will die.

            By the way, I remembered that I studied in a Soviet school. And in my textbook on the history of the USSR it was clearly written that the Winter War with Finland began because of the attack of the White Finns on the USSR. And that the Germans shot the Poles in Katyn. Well, the Russian people cannot be the aggressor. Only a “creator and educator” :)
            1. +1
              7 January 2013 05: 26
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              I studied in a Soviet school.

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Well, the Russian people cannot be the aggressor. Only a “creator and educator” :)

              Here....You went to school. American Indians did not go to school. They were shot, not educated. And you, I hope, did not live on a reservation. That's how lucky you are, but you are unhappy.
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                7 January 2013 06: 18
                Thunderbolt, and the Kazakhs paid for their education in full. Both of my grandfathers have drenched the Russian and Ukrainian soil with their blood since 1941. And my father went through the Chechen epic. And one of my uncles with the Order of Courage is an honorary resident of the Orenburg region, other uncles went through Afghanistan and Chernobyl. Both grandmothers have medals for their labor services during wartime. Personally, my education was fully and abundantly paid for by my relatives. You'll be too tired to return the change.
                In addition, the Kazakhs paid in full for all the “courtesy” of the CPSU (and not the Russian people) with the riches of their land. If you start counting how much the USSR still owes to the budget of the Kazakh SSR, you will be strained to pay off debts.
                So what do I owe to the Russian people? And what do I owe him? Did they leave me alive? Why didn’t they kill my ancestors? Is it hard to look at blood? You, thunder-boy, at least cut up a chicken before making me thank you for “not killing me” :)))) You’ll shit yourself by “shooting” Kazakhs on the “reservation”, Rambo.
                1. -2
                  7 January 2013 06: 24
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  So what do I owe to the Russian people?

                  Well, go to the Kazakh site, why are you rubbing off here?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    10 January 2013 18: 03
                    Understood. I thank the Russian people for the fact that the Topvar website was created in the Russian domain zone.
                2. +2
                  7 January 2013 06: 33
                  How many letters are just threats. I didn’t cut the chicken, that’s what the Kazakhs are for laughing As I understand it, the Russians prevented you from becoming great; or no, you are great, and we are Russian. Well, now you are free Cossacks! Live and be happy!!! Either we are stopping you, or you want revenge ?What is the point of the posts?
                  1. +1
                    7 January 2013 06: 35
                    Alexey, Merry Christmas!
                    Stop it all, I deleted all his comments. If he writes again, I’ll delete it again.
                    1. +1
                      7 January 2013 06: 52
                      Merry Christmas!
                  2. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    10 January 2013 18: 12
                    Dozens of insults rained down on the Kazakhs. And they taught us how to defecate, and wash ourselves, and gave us writing, and so on. And some people here also “scared” with a military invasion. Kazakhs are a very calm nation. Even indifferent. And completely indifferent to xenophobia or religious differences. But no one will remain silent when they try to rudely insult us. Most commentators do not follow the language. That's why I'm being provoked.
                    And we don’t get to the bottom of your textbooks, which contain a whole carload of science fiction, starting with the mythical victory over the Horde on the Kulikovo Field (although Mamai was never a Genghisid or a Khan) and ending with the fact that all sorts of Finns and Chukchi voluntarily became Russian lands. Read your school textbooks more carefully with adult eyes. You yourself will blush from omissions, distortions and self-praise.
  75. +2
    4 January 2013 19: 26
    Forget,
    in the 16th century, Kazakhs existed, and Kazakhs fought against the tsarist yoke, this is a fact.

    In the XNUMXth century, the “royal yoke” was located beyond the Volga and the Ural Mountains.
    You will also write that you fought for the rights of the Indians against the conquistadors in the Amazon jungle, where “there are many wild monkeys.” lol
    1. +4
      4 January 2013 21: 03
      The Kazakhs never had their own state. What kind of state can nomads have, constantly fighting among themselves over pastures and watering places?
      Gangs of wild Kazakhs often attacked Russian settlements in the Urals; they did not engage in agriculture, they loved to eat, and they saved their money.
      The Russian government was forced to create border Cossack villages along the border with the savages, and then completely establish control over the entire territory of the nomadic tribes.
      1. Marek Rozny
        0
        7 January 2013 06: 25
        Where did the “Russian settlements in the Urals” come from? :))))))))) If the Russians were sitting in Kiev, led by the Rurikovichs, then they would not complain about the attacks of the Kazakhs somewhere in the Urals :))))))))))))) And then they wouldn’t have made up legends and myths about protecting the Kazakhs from Kokand :) And then they wouldn’t have invaded Afghanistan in the 20s to protect the Uzbeks :))))) The Empire invaded both Iran and Finland. Because they attacked “innocent Russian peasants from the Urals” like that :))))))) Savages, sir... ;)
    2. Marek Rozny
      0
      7 January 2013 06: 31
      Golubenko, what do I see! You succumbed to an incorrectly formulated sentence (separately about the 16th century, and separately about the anti-colonial struggle against tsarism - the sentence was simply not very formulated, and you did not have enough knowledge of the Russian language to read the sentence correctly) and stated that Russians in the 16th century in our it wasn't even close to the ground! Finally! At least one Russian remembered that there were no Russians beyond the Volga, only in recent centuries they began to slowly filter in in small groups of fugitives and in the form of the Russian army.
      Look, soon Russian shoviks (with Russified surnames) will read the results of the census of Tsarist Russia and see how many Russians even at the end of the 19th century lived in the supposedly “Russian territories” of modern Kazakhstan. Maybe things will get to the point of fits and starts.
  76. +3
    4 January 2013 20: 51
    During the period of formation of the national elite in the newly formed states, on the territory of the former USSR. Almost all Asian elites chose the nationalist path with the organization of the ideas of “Russian conquest” in the minds of the local population. With far-reaching goals. This almost instantly turned into persecution of the Russian-speaking population at all levels, starting with refusal of service in Russian, ending with ordinary crime.
    So I had to witness (on duty) how in one of the former republics the persecution of the local population who spoke Russian began. Although they persecuted everyone, Georgians, Moldovans, Jews, Ukrainians, everyone who was not local. Trains began to go to their historical homeland. The specialists went first (it’s easier for them to find work), heating interruptions began in the city, then it disappeared altogether. The local population became even more angry, blaming the Russians! And then let's all go!!
    Two local personnel were able to service the pumping station at such a level that cold water remained in the city, although it did not rise above the second floor. There was no need to talk about providing hot water or heating there - there was simply no one!! In a couple of years, an agricultural equipment plant disappeared in the city; it was simply cut into metal.
    Now on TV I see the head of this state receiving our presidents with open arms, in the hope of direct investment and loans. But the country has remained ...................... ..with cold water up to the second floor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  77. +8
    4 January 2013 20: 57
    Russia misbehaved for this now and is paying the price.
    The “civilized” British exterminated 100 million American Indians, millions of blacks, Indians, Afghans, Arabs, and the “world community” has no complaints about them.
    The Russians in Central Asia built thousands of hospitals, schools, higher educational institutions, plants, factories and raised the semi-wild Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks to the level of developed nations, that’s why we are now occupiers.
    Would it even occur to the illiterate people of Central Asia, dying out on reservations, to invent some kind of history and call their masters occupiers?
    Ukraine, under Polish occupation, lost its national dignity and traditions and is now trying to blame it not on the Poles, whose Ukrainians were cattle, but on the Russians, who liberated them from the occupation.
    You cannot become famous for good deeds.
    The Georgians voluntarily became part of Russia under the threat of total extermination by the Persians, and now they have made up a story about the occupation.
    1. Marek Rozny
      0
      7 January 2013 06: 36
      hey you corsair! your Stolypinites did not come to Kazakhstan with diplomas. They neither knew how to read nor washed properly - they were nonsense, real serfs for nothing. Why are you making up fairy tales about “thousands of hospitals, schools...”. Even Soviet propaganda did not mention such “goodies” from the tsarist government to the Turkestans.
  78. +4
    4 January 2013 21: 29
    Hello colleagues! Wake up guys! There has been, for a long time now, a deliberate propaganda of Russophobia, on a “scientific” basis, which is well paid for and supported by certain circles, the populations of countries are being zombified, public opinion is being prepared for the upcoming invasion of Russia, in order to incite as many people as possible against us, so that no one will feel sorry for us. but he said, “That’s what these Russians need.” But first of all, to humiliate and instill an inferiority complex in the Russians themselves. This is my opinion, how I see the situation. So it’s high time to go in for sports, martial arts and stop drinking vodka.
  79. +3
    4 January 2013 21: 48
    Ura-patriot,
    There is no need to develop an attitude of disgust and ridicule of other peoples.
    For that matter, weren't the Germans a significant influence? Wasn't it Europe that made you shave? Wasn’t it Stalin who was able to deftly vary and create at least something that became the Most Terrible Weapon? If this is the case, then express your gratitude to the Georgian people for giving birth to such a wonderful Stalin. Express gratitude to the Jews for the fact that Putin exists, who saved Russia from complete collapse, or have you forgotten those disorganized times?

    There is no need to beat your chest so proudly and ridicule any nation.

    And we learned from you in the 90s. What goes around, sir, as they say.
    Well, you screwed up, you don’t know your history, but you’re trying to teach us yours.
    When the Germans ran through the forests and robbed each other and those living nearby, there were many cities in Rus'. The Slavs washed themselves in baths, while the Germans lived in unsanitary conditions.
    The Germans brought a lot of good to Russia, but also a lot of harm, so this is a controversial issue.
    Unlike you, your science fiction historians and nationalist propaganda, I.V. Stalin had great respect for the Russian people and never hid it.
    And you pose the Georgia-Russia question incorrectly.
    A lot has been said about this and Russia is not to blame for 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX.
    Have you classified V.V. Putin as a Jew? Oh, how.
    Or maybe Nazyrbaev is also a Jew, cleverly disguised by MASSAD?
    In the end it’s all nonsense, in Russian it’s called “they started for health, but ended for peace.”
    What does this have to do with the theme of science fiction historians of the former republics of the USSR and the “labor in the galleys” of the President of Russia?
    Some set of slogans for a novice hamster.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      7 January 2013 06: 39
      expert in Kazakh history, give specific names of “Kazakh science fiction historians.” Let's take them apart piece by piece. otherwise I see only emotions and scraps of meager information from table conversations with other ignorant shoviks.
  80. +4
    4 January 2013 21: 52
    Dear Ura-patriot, learn history: the invasion of the Poles, the invasion of the Swedes, the invasion of Napoleon, the Crimean War, two world wars, the October Revolution with Western money, Intervention, the Cold War, the war in the Caucasus with Western money, anti-Russian propaganda in countries neighboring Russia , anti-Russian hysteria in the countries of the golden billion, anti-Russian statements by Western leaders... this is an incomplete list of “evidence”
  81. tommy1984
    +3
    4 January 2013 23: 56
    The creators of these textbooks need to be placed in the Kashchenko clinic and injected with some kind of sobering drugs. maybe after this this petty nationalistic nonsense will stop in their heads.
  82. Region65
    -1
    5 January 2013 06: 17
    and yet, despite the fact that Russia has long ceased to be a country-forming state (I mean the USSR), Russia still continues to feed these hangers-on who make us out to be occupiers and enemies :) well, why the hell shut off the feeding trough for all these shit-saurs, let them suck paw in the den.
  83. Beck
    +3
    5 January 2013 12: 25
    YES. MOST OF THESE HERE ARE JOYA-PATRIOTS AND MOST OF THE VERBS SAY INSANE VERBS. THEY DO NOT WANT TO RECOGNIZE A SEGMENT OF THEIR RUSSIAN HISTORY. IT WAS - IT WAS. SO IT IS THE SAME TIME.

    ONE SATISFIES. THERE ARE NO HUMANS OF JOYA-PATRIOTS IN THE RULING ELITES OF OUR COUNTRIES. AND THE ELITES BUILD WHAT IS PRECEDED BY HISTORY, WHAT LIES ON THE SURFACE. BUILDING THE EURASEC - A UNITED GEO-ECONOMIC-POLITICAL SPACE.

    BUT THEY ARE NO LONGER BUILDING WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE FORMER ERA OF COLONIALISM, BUT WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF EQUALITY AND MUTUAL RESPECT.

    IF THE VIEWS OF THE JINGO-PATRIOTS OF THIS SITE PAGE PREMIUMED IN THE RULING ELITES, THEN THE EURASEC WOULD NOT BE IN THE PLANS. SO THE HISTORICAL PERIODS OF THE NOMADAL WAY OF LIFE AND THE HISTORICAL PERIODS OF THE COLONIAL ERA WOULD NOT BE RECOGNIZED.

    SUCH DENIAL OF THE PERIOD OF OWN HISTORY ONLY LEADS TO MISUNDERSTANDING.

    BUT THANK GOD, THE MIND OF JOYA-PATRIOTS IS NOT ALL OF RUSSIA. ABSOLUTELY NOT ALL OF RUSSIA. IF SUCH MINDSET HAD PREVAILED IN THE PAST, THEN

    RUSSIA WOULD NOT BECOME A GREAT COUNTRY.

    Goodbye. I'll go to other pages.
  84. choice
    -1
    5 January 2013 12: 59
    The current eastern and northern Kazakhstan was studied and annexed to Russia under Peter the Great and only Russians lived there. And now Russian youth from there prefer to leave for their real homeland in Russia, since now they have turned out to be colonialists and this is now not Russia but Kazakhstan. It’s just a shame that when Khrushchev decided to give this land to the Kazakhs, he did not ask the Russians if they wanted this. I left there myself; the Russians must bring benefits to Russia and protect it.
    1. Beck
      0
      5 January 2013 19: 09
      Quote: izbor
      The current eastern and northern Kazakhstan was studied and annexed to Russia under Peter the Great, and only Russians lived there


      Here is the most obvious example of jingoism based on a lack of understanding of historical development, lack of knowledge of one’s own history and the history of neighboring countries. Only one thing - Hurray, Everything is ours. All is mine. Everyone else get out of here.

      As for the arrival of Russians in Western Siberia in the 16th century, no one lived there? That it was deserted? And where Izbor will you throw the lands of the Turkic Kaganate, the lands of the Golden Horde, the White Horde, the Tyumen Horde populated by the people of these states? And what city, the capital of the Tyumen Khanate, was captured by Ermak? You don’t know this city, but your aplomb is full of pants. Kashlyk is a city.

      And you don’t really know, you don’t know at all, what Khrushchev wanted to do and dragged into him a desire that he had no trace of. Khrushchev did not want to give up any lands, he wanted to separate five northern regions from Kazakhstan and create the Virgin Lands from them and bring them under the administrative subordination of the RSFSR. But the protests of the population of Kazakhstan and the disagreement of the leaders of Kazakhstan did not allow this to be done. That is, he wanted to fulfill the current desire of the jingoists. And you, Izbor, without knowing history, placed a pile of manure on Khrushchev’s bald head. And it’s not a pity that you left Kazakhstan, we don’t need such illiterate, undeveloped and limited people, there are enough illiterate Kazakhs of our own.

      In the 90s, not only Russians left Kazakhstan with the desire to live in their historical homeland. Up to 80% of Germans left for Germany, 80% of Chechens and Ingush left for the Caucasus, and Greeks also left for Greece. And none of them shouted that they were expelled from Kazakhstan, only Russian jingoists.

      We had a Russian-speaking prime minister, Russian-speaking ministers. Now the Minister of Emergency Situations is the Slavic Bozhko. Russian pilots, citizens of Kazakhstan, serve in our Air Force. We have world-class Russian athletes: cyclist Vinogradov, weightlifters Ilya Ilyin and Svetlana Podobedova, track and field athlete Olga Rypakova (all have London gold). And none of them goes to live in Russia. They live in their second homeland where they were born.

      For Kazakhstan, with its territory and economic potential, a population of 16 million is not enough. And the government always persuaded those leaving to stay. But whoever wanted to leave left. Those who didn't want to stayed. Now about 1,5 million Russians live in Kazakhstan and they are my fellow countrymen. Along the northern borders of Kazakhstan, in Russia, 1,5 million Kazakhs of my compatriots live, and I’m not saying that they are being persecuted. Hooray, the patriots of Russia are tearing their throats for no reason, escalating tension between our countries. Improve your education Izbor, and then go to the site.
      1. His
        -3
        5 January 2013 21: 28
        Beck, all power in your country rests on nationalism - the creation of a mononational state (as in all other countries).
        But you won’t have to amuse yourself for long - the Salafis are already coming, each of their terrorist attacks is a knock on your door.
        When the pressure is on for people like you (linguists, pseudo-historians), I think that you will quickly compose another story - about the great saving Russia.
        And again Russian Vanya will have to get you out of the shit.
        1. Beck
          +2
          6 January 2013 10: 43
          Quote: Own
          Beck, all power in your country rests on nationalism - the creation of a mononational state (as in all other countries).


          To write like this you need to follow the political life of Kazakhstan. You don't follow, so you write all sorts of nonsense.

          If you were following, you would know that we, the only one in the CIS, have Assembly of Peoples of Kazakhstan which works on a permanent basis.

          Her goals:
          equality of rights and freedoms of citizens of the republic, regardless of race, nationality, language, attitude to religion, membership in social groups;
          comprehensive development of national cultures, languages ​​and traditions of the peoples of Kazakhstan;
          expanding integration ties with international organizations;
          formation of Kazakhstani identity through the consolidation of ethnic groups of Kazakhstan;
          formation and dissemination of ideas of spiritual unity, strengthening and preserving friendship of peoples and interethnic harmony.

          Tasks:
          -promoting the preservation of interethnic and interfaith harmony and stability in society in the republic;
          - development of proposals for the implementation of state policy that promotes the development of friendly relations between representatives of nationalities living on the territory of Kazakhstan, promoting their spiritual and cultural revival and development based on compliance with the principle of equality;
          - formation of a political culture of citizens based on civilized and democratic norms;
          - ensuring that diverse national interests are taken into account in the national policy pursued by the state;
          - search for compromises to resolve social contradictions that arise in society.

          This is the Palace of Peace and Reconciliation where congresses of all religions of Kazakhstan are regularly held.
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +1
            6 January 2013 12: 53
            Dear, you were the first to pour grist into the mill of interethnic relations, when you began to present your pseudo-patriotic speculations. The Russian and Kazakh Peoples are fraternal, but for some reason you don’t like it, no matter how much you want to quarrel these Peoples, nothing will work out.
            1. Beck
              0
              6 January 2013 15: 29
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              Dear, you were the first to pour grist into the mill of interethnic relations,


              Who are you telling this to? Stick to the site's halt. Please indicate the name of whom you are addressing. It is unknown who will perceive your top comment and who will respond.
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +1
                7 January 2013 18: 06
                This is what I'm telling you. It wouldn't hurt you to read the rules yourself.
                1. Beck
                  +2
                  7 January 2013 19: 05
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  This is what I'm telling you. It wouldn't hurt you to read the rules yourself


                  Now it's clear. And at the top you wrote a comment without any address and it could have been addressed to anyone.

                  It turns out that you are not only a biased person, but you also distort the facts in plain sight. Read the page first. Who first began to make absurd claims - Give up the lands, we came to desert lands, we feed you, etc. Kazakhstanis only answered to these absurdities, giving counterarguments.

                  Which Kazakh people belittled the history of Russia? I have written more than once, and not only because I personally think so, this is objectivity - Russia is a Great Country. She proved this with her story. And in different eras of history, Russia acted according to the rules of this era, looking after its interests. And Kazakhstan has its own history. Let Kazakhstan’s contribution to world history be 1000 pages, and Russia’s 10, but this is also history.

                  But it’s not enough for the jingoistic patriots. For their inadequate understanding of greatness, they do not want to know other stories, at least of neighboring people. And they make claims against their neighbors only on the basis of the past colonial development of history.
        2. Marek Rozny
          0
          7 January 2013 06: 43
          You should have pulled the Kazakhs out of the shit first, washed your face of dirt and brushed your teeth. And then we can talk about the Salafis and other delights that come to us from the Russian Federation through the Caspian Prut. You can’t improve your life, but you keep trying to become a teacher.
      2. max-02215
        0
        10 January 2013 13: 03
        As for the arrival of Russians in Western Siberia in the 16th century, no one lived there? That it was deserted? And where Izbor will you throw the lands of the Turkic Kaganate, the lands of the Golden Horde, the White Horde, the Tyumen Horde populated by the people of these states? And what city, the capital of the Tyumen Khanate, was captured by Ermak? You don’t know this city, but your aplomb is full of pants. Kashlyk is a city.
        you dig deep, but if you dig down to Genghis Khan, read the Slavic-Aryan Vedas, there is history, and you don’t have to believe what the Germans wrote
  85. tref11
    +1
    6 January 2013 13: 06
    Everyone around is white and fluffy. Only Russians are wild barbarians. Well then listen, banderlogs. I often go to Latvia (in a small but proud state) Where are the factories, gentlemen? Where are RAF.VEF, RVZ and much more. They are countless. It turns out that without barbarians there is not enough intelligence. I feel sorry for the poor, and for the people who live under the poor.
    1. +1
      6 January 2013 16: 33
      Russians have nothing to be ashamed of their history and nothing to repent of.
      The Russian people created their Russian civilization at a time when Western Europe was sparsely populated, and the ancestors of modern Germans and Englishmen smeared their faces with green paint and chased enemies with stone axes.
      The West has done and continues to do everything possible to eradicate our true history. Yes, their little hands are short, the truth is revealed with every new discovery by archaeologists.
      It was not possible to crush Russia by force, they are trying to destroy it through slander, through corrupt “national intellectuals” of the former republics of the USSR, setting zombified morons and mentally retarded nationalists against Russians.
      Truth and strength are on our side.
      1. Beck
        +2
        6 January 2013 16: 39
        Quote: Corsair5912
        It was not possible to crush Russia by force, they are trying to destroy it through slander, through the corrupt “national intellectuals” of the former republics of the USSR, setting zombified nationalist morons against the Russians.


        Read the comments again. Which of the “national intellectuals” of the former republics is inciting someone against Russia. It is the Russian jingoists on this site who alienate all sensible people.
        1. Nurius
          0
          6 January 2013 18: 02
          REGNUM: Well, now they are determining...
          Yes, it happens. Relations between Ukraine and Russia, which in the 1932th century are connected by the supply of hydrocarbon resources, are based on such things. When Russia and Ukraine cannot agree, historical problems arise, first of all. Why is the topic of the Holodomor being discussed so much? It happened, it cannot be denied. But present bills to the successors of the Soviet Union, and Russia announced itself to them, and say that since this was done in Stalin’s times, then let’s answer, this should not happen. If we take Kazakhstan, then we also have a lot of problems. The same famine of 1933-42. Then 400% of Kazakhs died out, 600 thousand people of other nationalities, XNUMX thousand Kazakhs left Kazakhstan. How can we evaluate this? There are also different points of view on assessing those events. We do not deny that it was genocide. Another thing is that we do not build the present on past mistakes, we learn from them. What happened, happened. Who should we present these bills to now? In this regard, the Kazakh historical school is distinguished by high tolerance.
          This is also the experience of living different ethnic groups on the territory of Kazakhstan. And interfaith harmony. This is bearing fruit, and historians take this into account. As a rule, Kazakhstan causes the least problems at meetings of the CIS Institute. I myself am mostly present there. Maybe it’s me who is so tolerant, tolerant and cosmopolitan (laughs)? But more than that, I'm a realist. Any idea must have a certain potential for implementation. But the bare idea doesn’t interest me. And my Kazakh colleagues, many of them, think soberly and do not go to extremes or aggression. The topic of conflict zones in history is very connected with the problem of aggression. But in life, of course, everything is both more complicated and simpler. If you want to insult a person, just tell him what nationality he is. The person will definitely be offended. The phrase “Here, you are a Kazakh (Korean, Russian)” will definitely cause a negative reaction, followed by aggression. And historians must be highly socially and morally responsible. The bulk of the population listens to the voice of historians. The words of masters and accomplished professional historians are often taken into account and taken for granted. Ultimately, this results in assessments that are perceived outside of other states.
          IA REGNUM: Do you have examples?
  86. Nurius
    0
    6 January 2013 17: 46
    Kazakh expert: If they want to falsify the history of the Great Patriotic War, then they say - this is not our war

    Belarus proposed developing a unified textbook on the history of the CIS countries - but did not mention the contradictions and historical accounts that the countries of the post-Soviet space have against each other. Kazakhstan Institute of History and Ethnography named after. Ch. Valikhanova has been dealing with the issue for the last few years. The director of this structure, Sattar Mazhitov, is sure that there are many unifying moments in the common history of the CIS - they should be taken as a basis when compiling a common history. But if you only engage in ripping phrases out of context, nothing will work.
    IA REGNUM: Is such a textbook possible in principle? After all, in the vast expanses of the CIS there are many contradictions regarding history.
    You know, if you approach this issue from an optimistic point of view, then, of course, since such an idea has arisen, it means it has the right to exist. Therefore, it must be implemented. And it seems to me that such a project is possible in the future. Everything, of course, depends on the geopolitical situation and integration processes that are taking place in the post-Soviet space. Indeed, our institute is involved in the implementation of such ideas. Since 2005, there has been an international organization called the Association of Institutes of the CIS Countries. This organization represents all directors of history institutes of various states, including Kazakhstan. Our side has not missed a single meeting over the years. These meetings are held in various cities of the CIS. They started in Moscow. Then we were in Dushanbe, Kyiv, St. Petersburg, Chisinau, Yerevan. This year we gathered in Zlatoglavaya again for a very serious reason. This is the 65th anniversary of the victory in the Great Patriotic War.
    It is very important that almost all CIS countries were represented at the last meeting, with the exception of those that are not officially members of the Commonwealth - the Baltic countries and Georgia. This is very important and gratifying - because the very process of preparing and holding the 65th anniversary of the victory gave a great impetus to our societies. I see this both in our elites and in our people. There was a feeling of unity, togetherness, and a desire to be together. It is no coincidence that many events that were carried out through the Humanitarian Cooperation Fund were united by the motto “We won together!” Why am I telling this? It is this topic that currently unites our countries the most. And you know, even the Baltic states were represented at the conference dedicated to the problems of war. And what is most interesting is that the director of the Institute of History of one of the Baltic countries spoke, who noted that we should be together on the topic of the Great Patriotic War. After all, when it comes to creating a single textbook on the history of the CIS countries or the former Soviet space, it is necessary to take into account the unifying points. They must be positive.

    REGNUM news agency: The unifying motive of the Great Patriotic War - from the mouth of a representative of the Baltic states? This is quite strange to hear in the context of the fact that it is the Baltic states that are in favor of revising the results of World War II.
    There are always negative aspects, and history can both unite and divide. If the efforts of professional historians are aimed at unification, if we direct our efforts towards counter-complementarity, then we will all win, the textbook will take place. But in our common history there are problems that require further study and mutual understanding. Meetings of our association of historians of the CIS countries show that these conflicts exist. And these meetings bring together smart people, professional historians who head the historical science of states, but even at this level misunderstanding arises.
    1. Nurius
      -1
      6 January 2013 18: 01
      The political map of the world that existed in the 4th or 1930th centuries cannot be extrapolated to the XNUMXst century. There were completely different borders, different frontier zones. Today, these problems also exist. Yes, now we have officially defined borders between states, but there are frontier zones, those areas adjacent to the borders of a particular state that cause problems. Such areas exist on the border of Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Russia. If you approach this problem from the point of view that this is mine and this is yours, then such a textbook will never happen. But we conducted experiments to find connecting points. The association I named publishes the magazine “Historical Space of the CIS Countries”. About XNUMX issues of this magazine have already been published. On the pages of this magazine we agreed to reflect those topics that are polemical in nature. We tried to write about Mazepa, about Enver Pasha, and took on topics that really cause problems. But our historians will need to think about not politicizing the problem. Topics such as the famine of the XNUMXs should be viewed from the point of view of how it was at that time, the assessment of these events should not determine modern political processes.
      1. Nurius
        -1
        6 January 2013 18: 07
        REGNUM: Well, now they are determining...
        Yes, it happens. Relations between Ukraine and Russia, which in the 1932th century are connected by the supply of hydrocarbon resources, are based on such things. When Russia and Ukraine cannot agree, historical problems arise, first of all. Why is the topic of the Holodomor being discussed so much? It happened, it cannot be denied. But present bills to the successors of the Soviet Union, and Russia announced itself to them, and say that since this was done in Stalin’s times, then let’s answer, this should not happen. If we take Kazakhstan, then we also have a lot of problems. The same famine of 1933-42. Then 400% of Kazakhs died out, 600 thousand people of other nationalities, XNUMX thousand Kazakhs left Kazakhstan. How can we evaluate this? There are also different points of view on assessing those events. We do not deny that it was genocide. Another thing is that we do not build the present on past mistakes, we learn from them. What happened, happened. Who should we present these bills to now? In this regard, the Kazakh historical school is distinguished by high tolerance.
        This is also the experience of living different ethnic groups on the territory of Kazakhstan. And interfaith harmony. This is bearing fruit, and historians take this into account. As a rule, Kazakhstan causes the least problems at meetings of the CIS Institute. I myself am mostly present there. Maybe it’s me who is so tolerant, tolerant and cosmopolitan (laughs)? But more than that, I'm a realist. Any idea must have a certain potential for implementation. But the bare idea doesn’t interest me. And my Kazakh colleagues, many of them, think soberly and do not go to extremes or aggression. The topic of conflict zones in history is very connected with the problem of aggression. But in life, of course, everything is both more complicated and simpler. If you want to insult a person, just tell him what nationality he is. The person will definitely be offended. The phrase “Here, you are a Kazakh (Korean, Russian)” will definitely cause a negative reaction, followed by aggression. And historians must be highly socially and morally responsible. The bulk of the population listens to the voice of historians. The words of masters and accomplished professional historians are often taken into account and taken for granted. Ultimately, this results in assessments that are perceived outside of other states.
        IA REGNUM: Do you have examples?
        1. Nurius
          +2
          6 January 2013 18: 08
          They called me from Ust-Kamenogorsk. Every year a researcher comes there from Russia, who in her works in Barnaul writes that the Kazakhs are so-and-so, they have privatized ancient history, the history of the period of the Sakas, Huns, Usuns, and want to extrapolate their Turkic roots there. And this same person comes to Kazakhstan and then starts saying different things. By the way, she defended her dissertation in Kazakhstan. It is this kind of historians that we should be wary of and protect the people and the people’s consciousness. I have seen this in many countries. Last year in Germany, at a seminar on the problems of creating a joint history of Central Asia and the Caucasus, one very large and respected expert in the field of ethnic processes began to speak in a speech about the fact that in Kazakhstan, on the main square in Almaty, there is a statue of independence, which is topped with a figure Saka warrior. They say that the Kazakhs are lengthening their history. For example, I don’t see anything wrong with this. The previous historian, by the way, also wrote that the Kazakhs use the Saka warrior as a symbol of statehood. But historically this has been the case. The Saki lived here, but they didn’t find the golden man in Africa. 60 km from Almaty, a famous archaeologist found it in Issyk, the whole world knows about it. This is a historical artifact found on the territory of our state. And why shouldn't we be proud of it? Why can't this be used as a symbol of our restored independence?
          The Uzbeks erected a magnificent monument to Emir Timur. In terms of their history, he is a national hero. With ours, Kazakh, he is a conqueror. And if you focus on such things, you can agree on a lot. And there will be people who will follow this for political purposes and will use it. It will be an ideology of separation, disintegration, discord. This is something to be wary of. There are problems between Tajiks and Uzbeks. Georgians and Russians. This is a human story and it will reflect relationships between people. But what to give to future generations? We are talking about creating a single history textbook that will be studied in all schools in all our states. He will shape the consciousness of a young man. We must try to create a textbook that will unite us. Why do you think the theme of war began to be falsified?
          1. Nurius
            0
            6 January 2013 18: 09
            REGNUM: Because Russia should be “unwashed” in the eyes of Westerners. And this image does not fit well with the image of a victorious country, the image of a liberator of Europe. Is not it so?
            Yes, many now want to take advantage of the fact that the 4th generation of young people is now growing up, who already know almost nothing about the war. We, whose fathers went through the war, remember it. And our genetic memory remembers this. This is passed on to children. I wanted to be here on May 9-10, but I was working on the problems of the 2nd World War in Paris. And when I called to congratulate the family, my wife said that the youngest son ran to get flowers to put them at the monument in the park to 28 Panfilov guardsmen. After lunch, the eldest ran. Nobody tells them this. But the condition of these children can be taken advantage of. When they want to falsify the history of a war, they often say that it was not our war. The Soviet-German war is not the Kazakh-German war, not the Uzbek-German war. And what were we, Kazakhs, supposed to do there? In the context of national identities, national histories, many problems can be turned in such a way that they will work to form a split consciousness of a young person. Therefore, in the textbook in question, although the idea is not new, it is important to avoid the point of aiming at splitting the consciousness of our children. Children of Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Uighurs, Belarusians, Koreans will read this textbook, and everyone should perceive it equally. All pages of this textbook. And this is very difficult to achieve.
            IA REGNUM: This has always been difficult to achieve. Let's take the Karabakh problem. Two diametrically different views on the same events. And this, if we take conflicts, cannot be avoided. How to avoid ambivalence in a textbook?
            It is no coincidence that one of the moments of Kazakhstan’s chairmanship in the OSCE is an attempt to analyze the situation specifically around the Azerbaijani-Armenian conflict. This is the right step. Until we resolve such conflicts as a whole, for example, Transnistria, we cannot write about these zones. These topics will need to be omitted from the textbook.
            IA REGNUM: Of course, the problem lies not only in the sphere of history. But also geopolitics and diplomacy. Historians alone will not be able to resolve the conflict. But then you will have to leave out a lot.
            Let's say thank you to Nursultan Nazarbayev for the fact that the multi-vector approach, originally laid down in the basis of the foreign policy principles of the Republic of Kazakhstan, is now bearing fruit. Kazakhstan can communicate with everyone. As much as I travel around the world, the CIS, I can freely communicate with representatives of all nationalities. Everyone treats us very well and listens. But when it comes to representatives of countries between which there are problems and conflicts, this does not work.
            1. Nurius
              0
              6 January 2013 18: 11
              IA REGNUM: Well, why? There are problems in Kazakhstan too. At all levels, everyone presents historical scores to everyone. In the republic, for example, at a completely official level, the figure of the 1920s, Konyrkozha Khodzhikov, was recently remembered - and the first thing that comes to the mind of historians is his phrase “we beat the Russians!” How to overcome this?
              You know, it all depends on who writes history and how they write it. If you set yourself the goal of denigrating someone, then you can always find negatives in any story. And many of our colleagues take something out of the context of the material that is beneficial to them. Why did Mark Blok say that in the XNUMXth century, unfortunately, the work of a historian turned into a craft? Yes, because it has become profitable for the historian to serve the existing regime, the existing government, the existing ideology. And thus - he did not notice how he turned himself into a craftsman. Therefore, it is very important for a historian to maintain his professional dignity. All the same, in fifty years the truth that he hid will come out. And still, the document he used will be read differently. So you say - Khodzhikov said “we beat the Russians!”, And I, for example, remember that Grigoriev said “we beat the Kazakhs!” And this is in his works. And you don’t have to look far for examples. A few years ago the book “Heroes of the Empire” was published in Moscow. And the author called on all the figures who essentially conquered Southern Kazakhstan and Central Asia to be made heroes, because they expanded the territory of the Russian state. Yes, from the Russian point of view, they are heroes. But for us they are conquerors. I say this because if you take a phrase that is beneficial for a historian out of context, you can write any history.
              1. Nurius
                0
                6 January 2013 18: 12
                REGNUM: Well, it seems that the authorities of many countries are doing just that - rewriting national histories...
                It sometimes bothers me that we are rewriting national histories. In general, the very process of rewriting history - I’m talking about your words about the Baltics, which requires a revision of the results of the Second World War - leads to a rethinking of values. I want to say that the constant rewriting of national histories carries with it negative potential. Just because we rewrite them, they will not cease to be national. We don't want to understand this. We want to please a certain part of the public. Earn authority. Some kind of stardom will appear. As a result, we sow discord. I have said it many times - and I will repeat it again. History is a thing that both unites and divides. But here's what I also wanted to say. With market relations, a category of historians appeared who think in the subjunctive mood. They say, if we had not entered this war, if we had not defeated Germany, we would now be drinking Bavarian beer! Or they mention Alash - oh, if only it were like that... It wasn’t. Therefore, one cannot reason like this under any circumstances. Because as Cicero said: history, which is written in common sense and objectively, cannot claim the subjunctive mood. All these countless “woulds” that inevitably arise otherwise are just self-justification.
                IA REGNUM: What if a historian undertakes self-justification?
                This is a topic for another conversation. A topic that concerns honor. A topic that concerns social responsibility. A topic that concerns influencing minds. And it is especially offensive in this regard for young people. Because in general, I believe history should be written, first of all, from the point of view of identifying lessons - in order to pass them on to future generations. And if we know how to do this, that’s very good. After all, what we taught them is what we will reap tomorrow. I say quite often in interviews - I absolutely agree that the war veteran is an honored person. We must listen to his voice. We must carry it in our arms. But there is a moment of truth when a war veteran now, in the XNUMXst century, can no longer dictate terms regarding what kind of billboard should hang on the streets of Almaty, Moscow or St. Petersburg. This is determined by the hero who participates in the creation of today. Today's story. And this is, first of all, a young man. The man who is already this veteran’s grandson. And the problem of fathers and sons, which Turgenev wrote about, is history that reveals itself in different generations. And therefore, the history that we now want to offer - and it doesn’t matter whether it will be integrated or it will be a simple textbook on the history of the CIS countries - it is important that the efforts be maximally aimed at showing our achievements as much as possible. Our joint successes. Let's take Turksib, which Kazakhstan still uses; the same virgin lands - no matter how bad the consequences may be - we still eat Kazakh bread!
          2. Beck
            0
            6 January 2013 19: 31
            Quote: Nurius
            But historically this has been the case. The Saki lived here, but they didn’t find the golden man in Africa. 60 km from Almaty,


            Something is unclear about you. After all, everything can be said more simply. The Iranian-speaking tribes of the Saks, Massagetae, Hephthalites, Yuzhans and others assimilated with the stronger Turkic tribes. This mixture of blood, but with Turkic languages, was the basis for the subsequent formation of Turkic peoples in the territory of Kazakhstan and Central Asia.
            1. Nurius
              +1
              7 January 2013 04: 59
              It’s possible in principle -) Claims to the author of the article, I just posted an article from Regnum, but the authors’ idea of ​​​​creating a single, compromise textbook for the CIS countries is good
            2. Ingvald_Bueny
              -1
              7 January 2013 19: 10
              Quote: Beck
              The Iranian-speaking tribes of the Saks, Massagetae, Hephthalites, Yuzhans and others assimilated with the stronger Turkic tribes.

              More precisely, these “Iranian-speaking tribes” or, as they are now called “Indo-European”, “Aryan”, and in ancient times were called “Scythosarmatians” and their “states” (and their territorial entities were state) during the period of decline of passionarity were captured by more “strong Turkic tribes” , and reduced their autonomous population to nothing.
              “According to Pompey Trogus, the SCYTHIANS ACHIEVED DOMINANCE OVER ASIA THREE TIMES. The last period of Scythian domination in Asia is undoubtedly the 7th century BC; the events of this time are well known from ancient sources. The first two eras of “Scythian domination” are obviously , date back to the Bronze Age.
              Ancient historians claim that the first period of “Scythian domination in Asia” lasted... one and a half thousand years and ended around 2054. BC.! As Pompeii Trog wrote, "ASIA PAID THEM (SKYTHIANS) TRIBE FOR 1500 YEARS; THE ASSYRIAN KING NIN PUT AN END TO THE PAYMENT." The same event is precisely dated by Paul Orosius (historian of the 5th century AD): “1300 years before the founding of Rome, the Assyrian king Nin..., rising from the south of the Red Sea, devastated and conquered the Euxine Pontus in the far north.” "

              1. Beck
                +1
                7 January 2013 20: 52
                Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                More precisely, these “Iranian-speaking tribes” or, as they are now called “Indo-European”, “Aryan”, and in ancient times were called “Scythosarmatians” and their “states” (and their territorial entities were state) during the period of decline of passionarity were captured by more “strong Turkic tribes” , and reduced their autonomous population to nothing.


                Well, you're forcing me to delve deep into history. The format of the site does not allow us to talk in detail. I'll try to put it together briefly if possible. But, taking into account one postulate - All conquests on earth did not involve the complete extermination of the conquered peoples (with the exception of fascism). Troops were destroyed, women were used for their “direct” purpose. If the enemy submitted, then there was no destruction of the men. Gradual assimilation took place. And the strongest prevailed, leaving his language, which included the words of the assimilated

                1. The ancestral home of the Indo-European peoples (Germans, Slavs, Romans, Indo-Aryans and Iranian-Aryans) is the interfluve of the Rhine, Danube, and Volga. The ancestral home of the Turks is the steppe of present-day Mongolia and Altai.
                2. In the 3rd millennium BC. the eastern migration of Indo-Europeans and Aryans beyond the Volga began. I don’t know what tribes lived at that time in the steppes of what is now Kazakhstan, but someone did. By that time the entire earth was populated. And these tribes were assimilated by the Indo-Aryans.
                3. The largest movements to the east of tribal groups from the Black Sea and Volga regions occurred in 1800-1600 BC, when two new archaeological communities formed in the steppe. Western, between the Dnieper and Volga, called the Timber Culture (based on the method of burial in log houses). Eastern, belonging to the steppe zone of Kazakhstan and Southern Siberia, at the place of discovery (near a village on the Yenisei) it was called the Andronovo culture. Arkaim belongs to the Andronovo culture. About 150 Andronovo settlements and many burial grounds have been discovered on the territory of Kazakhstan and the Southern Urals. The settlement zone of the Andronovo people extended from the Volga to the valley of the upper Yenisei and reaches in the south the Central Tien Shan, Tajikistan, and Afghanistan. And some cultural elements can be traced in Northern Pakistan (Swat Valley). (Archaeologist E.E. Kuzmina).
                4. In the first millennium BC, in the country of Arianam Vaidzha - the Aryan Expanse (from the Dnieper to the Yenisei and to Afghanistan), the priest Zarathushtra proclaimed a new Faith, in contrast to the previous veneration of the Cow by the Aryans. I believe in the only, uncreated, eternal god of the creator Ahura Mazda - Lord Wisdom. The purpose of Faith is a Good Thought, a Good Word, a Good Deed. And then Zarathushtra calculated the day vernal equinox - March 22 and proclaimed it the New Year holiday.
                5. The Aryans of Kazakhstan and Central Asia ended their existence under this name at the beginning of the 1st millennium BC. The successors of the Aryans in the Great Steppe were their descendants - the Sakas and Sauromatians, who roamed east of the Volga. The same tribes to the west of the Volga, in the Black Sea region, related to the Sakas, the Greeks began to call Scythians. Saki is a general name for various tribes of Aryan origin. Mentioned in history are the Saki, Saki-Tigrahauda, ​​Saki-Haumavarga, Massagetae, Derbiks, Isseidons, Sogdians and others.

                I will continue below, if the restrictions imposed by the admins for the skull on shoulder straps allow. If so, I'll finish it next time.
                1. Beck
                  +1
                  7 January 2013 20: 56
                  6. In the 2nd century BC. In Central Asia, the steppes of present-day Mongolia, the power of the Turkic-speaking Huns began to form. And then the Turkic-speaking tribes assimilated the Indo-European tribes on the Yenisei and northwest of Altai. In the 1st century AD, part of the Huns moved to South-Eastern Kazakhstan where they assimilated the Hephthalites, Yuzhens, and Saks. In the 2nd century, another part of the Huns moved to the Volga region and the steppes of North-Western Kazakhstak where they assimilated the Sarmatians, Sauromatians, and Finno-Ugric tribes. In both cases, the dialects of the Turkic language became the language of the assimilated peoples. In the 4th century, part of the crossbreed of the Huns from the north of Kazakhstan, under the Europeanized name Huns, went to Western Europe.
                  7. In the 6th century, the Turkic Khaganate was formed. From Ussuri to the Don and from Tyumen to the Tien Shan and Pamir. And then the last Indo-European inhabitants were assimilated in the southwest of Kazakhstan and Central Asia.

                  This is how the tribes and peoples of the territory of present-day Kazakhstan were formed. And in the Turkic language there are many words and names that go back to the Aryan language. Rustam, Madi are the names of Aryan heroes and kings, and they are still used to call children. Tolkien - wave. Nur - permeated with light. (Nursultan is a radiant, radiant Sultan). The Turks have their own names for the land, but the Aryan mill - land, became the designation of the Motherland among the Turkic peoples. Kazakhstan - Land of the Kazakhs. Tatarstan - Land of the Tatars. And only the Turkic peoples and the former Aryans of Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan have preserved - Nowruz, the New Year's holiday on the day of the vernal equinox established by Zarathushtra himself.

                  The Slavs directly came to Northern Kazakhstan only in the 16th century, with the beginning of the colonial era.

                  So, there are no pure peoples now. The blood has been mixed for a long time and not by us. We are all from the same human root.

                  What I wrote is the course of history generally accepted by today's historians. Of course, he relied on the works of ancient historians, but with thorough clarifications and modifications. Because it is unknown what different ancient historians meant by Asia or the Ecumene. For example, Greek 3 millennium and Egyptian 4 millennium. Moreover, in those days, huge layers of myths, superstitions, and imaginations were layered on top of the grain of truth. For example, centaurs who breathe fire, have ten arms, and the like.
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    0
                    8 January 2013 00: 20
                    Quote: Beck
                    6. In the 2nd century BC. In Central Asia, the steppes of present-day Mongolia, the power of the Turkic-speaking Huns began to form. And then the Turkic-speaking tribes assimilated the Indo-European tribes on the Yenisei and northwest of Altai. In the 1st century AD, part of the Huns moved to South-Eastern Kazakhstan where they assimilated the Hephthalites, Yuzhens, and Saks. In the 2nd century, another part of the Huns moved to the Volga region and the steppes of North-Western Kazakhstak where they assimilated the Sarmatians, Sauromatians, and Finno-Ugric tribes. In both cases, the dialects of the Turkic language became the language of the assimilated peoples. In the 4th century, part of the crossbreed of the Huns from the north of Kazakhstan, under the Europeanized name Huns, went to Western Europe.
                    7. In the 6th century, the Turkic Khaganate was formed. From Ussuri to the Don and from Tyumen to the Tien Shan and Pamir. And then the last Indo-European inhabitants were assimilated in the southwest of Kazakhstan and Central Asia.

                    Quote: Beck
                    6. In the 2nd century BC. In Central Asia, the steppes of present-day Mongolia, the power of the Turkic-speaking Huns began to form. And then the Turkic-speaking tribes assimilated the Indo-European tribes on the Yenisei and northwest of Altai. In the 1st century AD, part of the Huns moved to South-Eastern Kazakhstan where they assimilated the Hephthalites, Yuzhens, and Saks. In the 2nd century, another part of the Huns moved to the Volga region and the steppes of North-Western Kazakhstak where they assimilated the Sarmatians, Sauromatians, and Finno-Ugric tribes. In both cases, the dialects of the Turkic language became the language of the assimilated peoples. In the 4th century, part of the crossbreed of the Huns from the north of Kazakhstan, under the Europeanized name Huns, went to Western Europe.
                    7. In the 6th century, the Turkic Khaganate was formed. From Ussuri to the Don and from Tyumen to the Tien Shan and Pamir. And then the last Indo-European inhabitants were assimilated in the southwest of Kazakhstan and Central Asia.

                    Did Kazakhstan exist at that time? Didn't the Kazakh Khanate arise only as a result of the collapse of the Great Horde? Were it not the Dzungars and Uzbeks who were contenders for the all-Mongol inheritance in Central Asia?
                  2. Beck
                    0
                    8 January 2013 10: 56

                    Settlement of the Aryans beyond the Volga. The settlement of the Aryans, and not the Germans, Romans or Slavs. On the territory of Kazakhstan, these Aryans began to be called the Andronovo culture. Andronovo residents were engaged in cattle breeding. Until the 15th century BC, livestock were kept near dwellings. Since the 15th century, transhumance began. It is these ancient settlements that archaeologists are excavating. From the 12th century BC. Transhumance livestock farming is being replaced by a more efficient one - nomadic. The Aryans themselves eventually divided into three groups. Actually, the Aryans living on the territory of Kazakhstan. The Irano-Aryans who moved to the Iranian plateau, assimilated, in my opinion, Semitic tribes and became the ancestors of the Persians and present-day Iranians. The Indo-Aryans who moved to Northern India assimilated the local Dravidian tribes and became the ancestors of today's Indians and Pakistanis.
                    And the Arkaim settlement is one of 150 Andronovo settlements excavated by archaeologists in the Southern Urals, Kazakhstan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. And it is baseless to build pseudoscientific and esoteric theories on their basis. Just like taking Tartaria, the pseudo-historian, Slavicist Fomenko, as reality. And the pseudo-historian, Turkist Murad Adji.
                  3. Beck
                    0
                    8 January 2013 11: 01
                    The ancestral homeland of the Indo-Europeans is in pink. In brown, their settlement.
                    1. Beck
                      0
                      8 January 2013 14: 14
                      The settlement of Indo-European Aryans, not Germans, Slavs or Romans, called the Androntsev culture. Until the 15th century BC Andronovo residents kept livestock near their settlements. From 15th to 12th century BC they switched to transhumance livestock farming. It is these ancient settlements scattered throughout the Southern Urals, Kazakhstan, and Afghanistan that archaeologists are excavating. Among them is Arkaim. Which pseudo-historians like Fomenko, based on pseudo-science and esotericism, attribute to anything. Fomenko is the same pseudo-historian as the Turkic Murad Adji. From the 12th century BC. Andronovo residents switched to more productive nomadic cattle breeding and stopped building fortifications. From the very beginning of their migration to the East of the Volga, the Aryans were divided - actually into the Aryans (Andronovo) of the territory of Kazakhstan, as well as into the Indo-Aryans and Irano-Aryans. The Iranian Aryans moved through Central Asia to the Iranian plateau and, in my opinion, assimilating the Semitic tribes became the ancestors of the Persians and present-day Iranians. The Indo-Aryans moved to the North. India and Pakistan, where they mixed with the Dravidian tribes and became the ancestors of Indians and Pakistanis.
                      1. Beck
                        0
                        8 January 2013 19: 07
                        Power of the Turkic-speaking Huns. From here in the 1st-2nd century AD. They moved to the north of Altai, on the Yenisei, in South-Eastern and Northern Kazakhstan, the Volga region and assimilated the Indo-European Aryans - the Saks, Sarmatians, Hephtalites, Isseidons, Debriks and others. In the 4th century, part of the Xiongnu from the north of Kazakhstan and the Volga region, under the Europeanized name Huns, would go to Europe, causing the Great Migration of Peoples.
                      2. Beck
                        +1
                        8 January 2013 19: 15
                        In the 6th century, the Turkic Khaganate was created from Ussuri to the Don. And then the remnants of the Aryans in the South-West of Kazakhstan and Central Asia were finally assimilated. From the 6th to the 12th centuries, various Turkic khanates existed on the territory of Kazakhstan, after the fall of the Khaganate. In the 13th century, the Ulus Jochi was created. In the 15th century, the Kazakh Khanate.
                2. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +2
                  8 January 2013 00: 15
                  Quote: Beck
                  The ancestral home of the Indo-European peoples (Germans, Slavs, Romans, Indo-Aryans and Iranian-Aryans) is the interfluve of the Rhine, Danube, and Volga. The ancestral home of the Turks is the steppe of present-day Mongolia and Altai.

                  Dear, this is how you simply established the ancestral home of the Indo-Europeans and the ancestral home of the Turks, despite the fact that the Turks are the peoples of the Turkic language group who at the same time belong to different races, anthropologically and culturally differ within the linguistic community. Looking for the ancestral home of the Turks is the same thankless task as looking for the ancestral home of the Slavs.

                  Quote: Beck
                  The Aryans of Kazakhstan and Central Asia ended their existence under this name at the beginning of the 1st millennium BC. The successors of the Aryans in the Great Steppe were their descendants - the Sakas and Sauromatians, who roamed east of the Volga. The same tribes to the west of the Volga, in the Black Sea region, related to the Sakas, the Greeks began to call Scythians. Saki is a general name for various tribes of Aryan origin. Mentioned in history are the Saki, Saki-Tigrahauda, ​​Saki-Haumavarga, Massagetae, Derbiks, Isseidons, Sogdians and others.

                  Uv. let's be honest there could not have been Aryans of Kazakhstan at that time, for the reason that there was no Kazakhstan then, just as there were no Kazakhs then, they did not stand out from the general Mongolian community and did not begin their movement under the leadership of the Blue Mongols tribe in the steppe of Central Asia and the valleys of China, I’m writing this because if you started talking about the Aryans and their states, name their states at that time for accuracy.
                  1. Beck
                    +1
                    8 January 2013 19: 38
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Dear, this is how you simply established the ancestral home of the Indo-Europeans and the ancestral home of the Turks,


                    But, you are like a child. It was not I who established the ancestral homelands. Scientists - historians, archaeologists, linguists have established, I just read their works. Of course, the Turks differ anthropologically, since assimilation took place more in some places and less in others, which is why among the Turks there are blue-eyed people with blond hair. And the Turkic proto-language was divided into dialects. This is natural. Just like the Proto-Slavic language split into Slovenian, Russian, Polish, etc. In the same way, anthropologically, the dark-haired Macedonian Slavs differ from the fair-haired Belarusian Slavs.

                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Uv. let's be honest there could not have been Aryans of Kazakhstan at that time, for the reason that there was no Kazakhstan then, just as there were no Kazakhs then,


                    Are you deliberately confusing the question? How can you not understand what I was talking about upstairs? territory of today's Kazakhstan, somehow it is necessary to designate the territories in the narrative. And there was no Volga in the 10th century, the name of this river was Itil. And who said that then there were Kazakhs as a people? I said that in ancient times, Indo-European Aryans lived on the territory of Kazakhstan and assimilated into the Turkic substrate, adopting the Turkic language. And already in the 15th century, the Kazakh nation was formed from these tribes.

                    And do not confuse the pro-Turkic community of the Huns and the pro-Mongol community. Proto-Mongolian is the Manchus, the Xianbi tribe (the Mongols themselves), the Buryats, and the Oirats.

                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    if you start talking about the Aryans and their states, name their states during that period for accuracy.


                    You read inattentively, and then make some claims. There was no Aryan state in the vastness of Kazakhstan, Aryan tribes lived with tribal territories, and the general name was, as I wrote at the top, Arinam Vaija - The Aryan Expanse.
                    1. Kaktyc
                      +1
                      9 January 2013 01: 43
                      If you believe all the scientists, they are still looking for chemical and nuclear weapons in Iraq laughing Scientists are the same people, pay them money and research anything, and the will comes “from above”.. Each country wants to have its own history, and preferably better than that of its neighbors.. Hitler, like no one else, proved this to the whole world .. Recently I watched on TV, some pseudo-scientist assured that the Gorynych Snakes exist!!! winked And there too..doctor of sciences..blah blah blah..
                      1. Beck
                        -1
                        9 January 2013 09: 12
                        Quote: KAKTYC
                        Scientists are the same people, pay them money and research anything, and the will comes “from above”.. Each country wants to have its own history, and preferably better than that of its neighbors..


                        You are confusing something with something and comparing something with a finger. How can we compare chemical weapons and the settlement of peoples?

                        What I cited above about the settlement of peoples became, in this form, a fact, not according to the theory of one scientist. This has been developed into a proven theory by the works of a bunch of scientists over at least a hundred years, with the involvement of the works of earlier scientists. Moreover, about the Andronovites, the Turks, these are the works of mainly Russian, Soviet, Russian scientists.

                        And I don't want to be cool, I want to be objective. Each nation has its own history and roots of origin.

                        And if here you cite Zmey Gorynych as an argument to refute it, then you are watching the wrong programs and there is no need to bring this up as a counterbalance to me. If you do not agree with my presentation, then bring other counterarguments from the scientific world. They say there is another theory of the settlement of Indo-Europeans and Turks.

                        From your comment, I feel that Great-Russianism prevails in you, and you do not accept other scientific data that in any way illuminate the history of other peoples. So write your inadequate protests.
                    2. Marek Rozny
                      0
                      10 January 2013 05: 14
                      Beck, he just can’t stop. He looks at the Kazakhs with condescension, what a delight - talking Kazakhs! Young, perky, of course, still children of the steppes, they need to be taught everything, but there is potential if they listen carefully to their elders... We need to correct the Kazakh, pull him back, correct some word...
                      However, at the same time, in essence, according to history, it allows for a blunder upon a blunder. But point-blank he is not embarrassed by his own mistakes and rushes on in search of nit-picking. And honestly, he doesn’t have an ounce of hatred towards the Kazakhs. What you! He is an internationalist and above all national prejudices. He just wants to help the stupid steppe people in a friendly way, teach them something, correct them in something...
  87. Voin sveta82
    +2
    7 January 2013 17: 57
    These aggressors who teach children a rewritten and false history... definitely need to be judged... EXEMPTIVE...)))) How tired of this lie... and these rats are already fed up...
    1. Beck
      +2
      8 January 2013 19: 47
      Quote: Voin sveta82
      These aggressors who teach children a rewritten and false history... definitely need to be judged... EXEMPLARY...)))) How tired of this lie... and these rats are already fed up...


      Who are you talking to? If you contact me, I will answer the following. First read the comments above carefully. Second. If you do not have erudition and insight into the issue under discussion, then it is better to remain silent. And the fact that you don’t have a base is evidenced by the manner of your comment - aggressors, deceit, judge, lies, rats.

      If there are counterarguments, please state them. If not, don't complain.
  88. Artem111258
    0
    8 January 2013 17: 37
    They squeal and bark, mainly, about who is in power or in the struggle for power, and the peoples, be they Georgians, Armenians, Ukrainians or any other nationality of the former UNION, are pooped on all this! A smart person won't tell, a fool won't understand.
    1. Kaktyc
      0
      8 January 2013 23: 36
      The trouble is that we understand this... Those who still saw the times of the USSR... Those who still knew and taught THAT history... and the younger generations will only have what is written above. And as a fact, if we don’t change anything, we will remain like this forever: “barbarians and occupiers”
  89. kNow
    +1
    9 January 2013 10: 10
    The article is provocative, designed to show what rotten neighbors Russia has, with the exception of the Armenians. Armenians are sooo good laughing Has anyone here even read what they write in their history books?
    And as a result, the peoples are again ready to gnaw each other’s throats, while the authors will laugh on the sidelines....

    The “Union of Armenians of Russia” turned to the head of the Department of Education and Science of the Sochi Administration, Olga Medvedeva, and the head of the Department of Education and Science of the Krasnodar Territory, Tatyana Khlopova, with a proposal to make additions to the subject “Cuban Studies”. And not just any topics, but topics telling about the history of the settlement of the Krasnodar region by Armenians!? The appeal was drawn up by the chairman of the branch of the “Union of Armenians of Russia” in the Lazarevsky district of Sochi, Varuzhan Dzykonyan.

    Let us note that the subject “Cuban Studies” has been studied in schools in the Krasnodar region since 2004. A separate textbook is compiled for each class, telling about the historical, ethnic, natural and economic features of the region.

    Thus, the Armenians strive to introduce a separate chapter about themselves, dear ones, into school textbooks. At the same time, in their appeal, they directly indicate that today in the territory of the Krasnodar Territory the Armenians are already the second largest ethnic group after the Russians. It is well known that the Armenians do not have a sense of modesty, which they once again demonstrated in their appeal to the Department of Education and Science of the Krasnodar Territory: “Armenians of the Krasnodar Territory cannot be attributed to the so-called migrant minorities, that is, formed during the life of the current generation. Most of them are not migrants - these people were born in the Kuban, and the ancestors of many of them were among the pioneers of the Kuban. They, like the Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, Assyrians and many others, are typical "faces of the Kuban nationality."

    It should be noted that the mechanism of creeping Armenianization of the southern regions of Russia was voiced even in the appeal of the Catholicos of all Armenians in 1988, which is given in the book “Fate” by G. Shakhnazarov (p. 50-52 in Armenian): “It’s not a secret that our lands are not all ours, but the time will come to conquer and settle them. Over the past 40 years, Armenians have occupied the lands of their ancestors. There are 60% of them. "The lands in Krasnodar and Stavropol Territories are gradually being freed from Russian influence."
    1. kNow
      0
      9 January 2013 10: 11
      It is no coincidence that today the Armenian diaspora in Russia is most active precisely in the Stavropol and Krasnodar territories. Without exaggeration, the Armenians of the Krasnodar Territory feel like masters here. Even the soft attempts of local authorities to establish an elementary order in the field of illegal migration run into a well-functioning mechanism of “resistance” of the Armenian community. This is not to say that the authorities of the southern regions of Russia do not understand the impending danger. Former Governor of the Krasnodar Territory, and now a member of the Federation Council Nikolay Ignatovich Kondratenko, has repeatedly stated that “50% of children in Adler’s schools are Armenians. The Russians are losing Adler. ” Once, at a meeting of the Federation Council, N. Kondratenko bitterly noted: “Who buys land in the Krasnodar Territory is Armenians, Armenians, Armenians. Russians do not buy. They are not solvent. ”

      The mayor of the city of Abinsk, Yuri Serdyuk, went even further in his worries about the Armenian expansion in the Krasnodar Territory: “These people have no feelings except love for money and for their relatives. I do not want to comply with the laws that make Armenia out of the Kuban. Do you think they live by law? They live according to their Armenian concepts, they have only one constitution - so that the Armenians feel good. Now Armenians are growing up young people who behave infinitely in general. Therefore, let them not be offended that we, too, are concepts. Here you have to act like in a war. Or we, or us. I have a round-the-clock operational watchman on duty. If something happens, the procedure has been worked out. 30 fighters can be put up for five minutes, and then reinforcements will come. All the proven guys in Chechnya and Kosovo served. ”
      1. kNow
        +1
        9 January 2013 10: 12
        “According to the rules,” Serdyuk banned playing Armenian music at school discos: “Well, I understand, of course, that once every five or six years a week of Russian culture is held in Armenia. Our artists will come, stay and leave. But why do we need to organize Armenian dances every week? In general, we stopped this matter,” Serdyuk told an Izvestia correspondent (http://www.izvestia.ru/day/article17483/).

        And here’s what they write about the dominance of Armenians on the forums of the Krasnodar region: “The Armenians literally attacked Pyatigorsk, their numbers are increasing, they behave arrogantly, they bought everything, right up to the city leaders, there are Armenians everywhere. There is no control over them. Armenian youth behave like at home here. Young Russian boys are beaten and girls are raped. They walk in crowds and look for victims. For now, the older generation of Russians is only being advised to leave the city. Many Russians do this - they sell their houses and leave. There are Armenians in many departments; once they get settled there, they fire Russians and hire Armenians in their places. A friend’s mother is being terrorized into selling her prestigious apartment in the city center.”

        ...The news that the Union of Armenians of Russia has approached the Department of Education and Science of the Krasnodar Territory with a proposal to introduce a chapter on local Armenians into the subject “Cuban Studies” taught in schools has already caused discontent among local residents. Users of the Internet diary of the Krasnodar Territory “Living Kuban” (http://www.livekuban.ru/node/209217) spoke quite eloquently about this proposal. Taking this opportunity, I would like to cite some of the indignant statements (the spelling and original text have been preserved): “Ara, brother, [censored] go to Yerevan and learn whatever you want, and in Kuban you and your descendants will study only the history of Russia”; “Can we introduce a separate course - Armenian studies?”; “This reminds me of something. This was the case in Karabakh and in Kosovo. First they come, then they settle, multiply, and now - there are many of us, give us everything!”; “And recognize the Armenian language as the second (preferably the first) state language in Sochi (better in Kuban)!”; “Armenia is a beautiful country, there is such a shortage of indigenous people, there is a lot of space and there is no need to study history. Live for yourself and be happy!”; “You, gentlemen, have apparently never been to Rostov. Armenians have been living there for a long time - there is a whole Armenian region - Nakhichevan. And there are a lot of Armenian villages around the city - even some signs in Armenian are duplicated. And nothing - I wouldn’t say they live in harmony, but they seem to live in peace. Everyone knows very well that they are cunning. Why should you behave the same way with them? Contrast your intelligence and education with their cunning. Have children. Weak? It’s always easier to stupidly yell about the dominance of Caucasians. There is a lot to learn from them. At least the way they hold on to each other, while our relatives kill each other in the kitchens. They break the law - there are no options to judge. They try to give a bribe - take many times more. )) Otherwise, now the Adygs will force you to learn Adyghe... but there are only a few of them left.”
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          10 January 2013 05: 24
          Quote: kNow
          “Ara, brother, [censored] go to Yerevan and learn whatever you want, and in Kuban you and your descendants will study only the history of Russia”;
          “This reminds me of something. This was the case in Karabakh and in Kosovo. First they come, then they settle, multiply, and now - there are many of us, give us everything!”;
          “And recognize the Armenian language as the second (preferably first) state language in Sochi (preferably in Kuban)!”

          And what? In Kazakhstan, Russians under Khrushchev became the majority and now they demand (and it’s not even our Russians, but Russian Russians who are busy) that the Russian language should suddenly be made the state language in Kazakhstan. What's worse about the Armenians? :)))) They have the same logic as the Russians - if we have become the majority here, then this land has ALWAYS been ours, and that means our language should be the main one :)))
  90. kNow
    0
    9 January 2013 10: 15
    As we can see, the Armenian proposal did not arouse enthusiasm among local residents. The most insightful are already drawing direct parallels between the proposal to study the history of the resettlement of Armenians in schools with separatism in the Nagorno-Karabakh region of Azerbaijan. Unlike other peoples inhabiting the Kuban, the Armenians did not assimilate or dissolve into the international melting pot. Today, by counting themselves among the humiliated and insulted, not shying away from blackmail (the story with anti-Armenian leaflets in Novorossiysk is another confirmation of what has been said), they are trying to get “fat pieces” from local authorities in the form of plots of land and objects in the center of cities and the inclusion of chapters about “history of the settlement of the Krasnodar region by Armenians.” Tomorrow, when the number of representatives of “the most long-suffering” exceeds the local Russian population (already today about one million Armenians live in the Krasnodar Territory), the Armenians may demand autonomy and even independence of the Krasnodar Territory from Russia and its annexation to “Mother Armenia.” We already encountered a similar development of the situation in February 1988 in Nagorno-Karabakh. And the Armenians themselves do not forget for a minute about the instructions of their Catholicos.

    It is easy to assume that already after 20-30 years (and even earlier, given the fertility of the Armenians), the inhabitants of Russia will be able to read with surprise the emergency message: "Yesterday, the regional parliament unanimously decided to separate the region from Russia and declare independence of the Krasnodar-Armenian Republic." If necessary, they will find "a mass grave of Armenians destroyed by the Cossacks, both in tsarist and Soviet times in Krasnodar", and they will also point to the chapters of "Kubanology", telling "about the historical lands of Armenians in southern Russia."

    Then the OSCE Minsk Group will be needed by Russia itself ...

    So, dear comrades, live peacefully and do not give in to provocations

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