Russia is an "insidious enemy" and an "occupier", and we are the most ancient: what children are taught in schools in the CIS countries

365
On the site "Voices of Russia" published an article from the "Krasnoyarsk newspaper" "Get to the truth, or Who and why rewrites history".

An analysis of 187 school textbooks published in the CIS countries showed that, with the exception of Belarus and Armenia, nationalist history is taught in schools, based on myths about autochthonousness, ancestral homeland, linguistic continuity, cultural glorification, ethnic homogeneity, sworn enemy. Images of Russia and Russians are used as the enemy. The image of the enemy is laid in the textbooks, even for the lower grades. So, schoolchildren of 4-th grade of Georgia schools study the history and geography of the country in the course "Motherland". The paragraph devoted to South Ossetia (in Georgian terminology - Shida Kartli), comes down to three key points: 1. Shida Kartli is the birthplace of a number of prominent figures of Georgian culture; 2. Ossetians have long lived "on Georgian soil in close friendship and kinship with the Georgians"; 3. In recent years, the "cunning enemy" has encroached on the friendship of Georgians and Ossetians and achieved its goal. Two kindred people with weapons in the hands opposed each other. A paragraph describing Abkhazia is similarly constructed: “The enemies did everything to sow hostility between the Georgian and Abkhaz peoples in order to ward off Abkhazia from Georgia. The“ insidious enemy ”was never named by name, but is it possible to doubt who is meant here?

The justification of the antiquity of the national history and the autochthonousness of the modern nation in school textbooks reaches anecdotal proportions. Thus, in Azerbaijani textbooks, the ancestors of Azerbaijanis are declared contemporaries of the Sumerians. "The first written testimonies about the tribes of ancient Azerbaijan are given in Sumerian epos and cuneiform records." Among the ancestors of the Kyrgyz people are consistently called the Scythians, Huns and Usuns. In Estonian textbooks, one can find allegations about the ancestors of modern Estonians and the formation of the "Estonian people" about five thousand years ago.

The Ukrainian version of the origin of the modern nation should also be recognized as fantastic. The Ukrainian textbooks set forth the scheme of M. S. Grushevsky, the key point of which is the rejection of the ancient Russian nationality and the statement about the parallel existence of two nationalities: the "Ukrainian-Russian" and the "Great Russian." According to Grushevsky, it turns out that the Kievan state is the “Russian-Ukrainian” state, and the Vladimir-Suzdal state is the “Great Russian” ethnic group. The Kiev period of the history of the "Ukrainian-Russian people" gradually passes into the Galitsko-Volynsky, then into the Lithuanian-Polish, and the Vladimir-Suzdal period of the history of the "Great Russian people" - Moscow. Thus, MS Hrushevsky is trying to prove that instead of a single Russian history there are two stories of two different nationalities: "The History of Ukraine-Russia" and "The History of Muscovy and Great Russia."

Attention to the antiquity of national history has an obvious projection on modernity. The proclamation of the ancient Azerbaijanis by the contemporaries of the Sumerians is called upon to substantiate the thesis: "Modern Armenia originated in the territory of ancient Western Azerbaijan." Maps of the history textbook of Georgia for the 5 class are designed to demonstrate that in ancient times the territory of Georgia was much larger than the current one. The "historical regions of Georgia" on the map depict the territories that are part of Azerbaijan, Russia and Turkey. How they got there, the schoolchildren know from the 4 class - they have captured the enemies.

A common feature of school textbooks of new national states is the presentation of contacts with Russians and Russia as a source of problems and troubles for their ancestors. Thus, the first historical acquaintances of Azerbaijanis with Russians are described in the textbooks as terrible disasters: "During the 914 campaign, for months the Slavic guerillas continuously plundered and destroyed the settlements on the Azerbaijani shores of the Caspian Sea. They massacred civilians and captured women and children ". The authors describe the savagery perpetrated by the Russians as if they themselves were witnesses to this.

The first contacts of Estonian ancestors with Russians are described as predatory raids. Russia as a state from antiquity to the present day is credited with aggressiveness. Thus, in Latvian publications, the very formation of a centralized state in Russia is presented as a negative factor for Latvia, since it had “aggressive aspirations”: it sought to “get access to the Baltic Sea”. A horror picture unfolds in front of the students: beginning at the end of the 15th century, the troops sent by the Moscow rulers repeatedly attacked the Livonian lands, plundering and capturing the inhabitants. Moreover, it is only casually noted that the troops of the Livonian Order "also raided Russia." The Livonian war in both Latvian and Estonian textbooks is interpreted as aggression from Russia.

The accession of certain territories to Russia, as a rule, is evaluated negatively. The benefits received by the peoples within the framework of a large state are ignored; the emphasis is on the loss of independence. The textbooks of the history of Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova and Uzbekistan assess the status of their territories within the Russian Empire as “colonial” and, accordingly, qualify Russians as “colonialists”.

Armenian authors take a more balanced approach, noting the progressive for the Armenian people of the Russian conquest of the Transcaucasus. The main content of the national history in the period of being a part of the Russian Empire is the national liberation struggle. Thus, in the Kazakh history textbook it is written: "The struggle of the Kazakh people against Russian colonialism lasted a long time, covering the second half of the XVIII century to the 90 of the twentieth century. The following are a dozen examples of the Kazakh people’s struggle for independence - uprisings, unrest movements, performances and so on.

Suppressing the uprising of Turkestan Muslims 1916 in Kyrgyzstan’s textbooks is evaluated as an attempt to exterminate the Kyrgyz people: “The measures taken to prevent the uprising by the tsarist forces resulted in a mass extermination of the Kyrgyz people. Faced with the threat of genocide, the rebels hurriedly migrated to China.” “Only the overthrow of the Russian tsar and the October revolution saved us from the complete extermination of the Kyrgyz.”

The events of 1917 and the civil war are considered textbooks, as a rule, through the same prism of the national liberation struggle. In a number of countries, the term "civil war" itself is not used at all. Modern textbooks depict the Bolsheviks either Russian, or puppets in the hands of Russian. In the Azerbaijani school, the Bolsheviks are depicted as allies of Armenians. The very establishment of Soviet power in Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Ukraine is portrayed as "aggression", "intervention", "occupation".

“Soviet Russia was not satisfied with the conquest of Georgia and the creation of an occupying government under its control,” the authors of one of the Georgian textbooks write, “now Moscow has begun implementing its perfidious plan - dividing Georgia into autonomous units. The Abkhaz and Ossetian separatists were not slow to take advantage of Russia's anti-Georgian policy.”

The textbooks of Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan are rated as “colonial” throughout the entire Soviet period of history. "Azerbaijan has become a colony of Soviet Russia, which has begun here to implement socio-economic and political measures that best meet its colonial interests." "Kazakhstan turned into a raw material base of the country, that is, it was and remained a colony." "The enterprises built over these years and Turksib only increased the volume of raw materials exported from the republic."

Textbooks of Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Ukraine, and Estonia associate the origin of World War II with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. It is evaluated as an agreement of the aggressors about the beginning of the Second World War.

... History is known to be written by the winners. We lost the Cold War in 1991 and, naturally, the winner began reformatting the story for himself. Here we have what we have, said, in particular, in the publication.
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  1. +131
    January 3 2013
    What a horror .... Russian barbarians broke into villages, villages and camps, leaving cities, hospitals and universities behind their backs.
    1. ughhh
      +19
      January 3 2013
      tanit,
      how many wolves do not feed ...
      1. +2
        January 3 2013
        and the bear has more dick lol
      2. +42
        January 3 2013
        Who else would tell us this ...
        - For the entire history of these countries, they did not rise above the rug without the Russians!
        -As in a joke: -And these people forbid us to pick our nose ...
      3. -4
        January 3 2013
        Donkey still has more.
        1. +9
          January 3 2013
          Nothing, they’ll run a little bit back with a tail between them ...
          1. +10
            January 3 2013
            About the article. in Moldova it is, I am not only a witness but also an experimental subject of the teaching of this story. Fortunately, I was able to distinguish truth from lies. And succumb to propaganda.
          2. +12
            January 3 2013
            Quote: feanor
            Nothing, they’ll run back a little bit with a tail between them ..

            Yes, they all went to the goat crack, let them run somewhere in the other direction and stand there in line for hot dogs, great, ancient and lowered by the Russians to the level of civilized peoples.
          3. +15
            January 4 2013
            Quote: feanor
            Nothing, they’ll run back a little bit with a tail between them ..


            it’s necessary to make it easier .. for example, a delegation of Georgia (Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Tukmenia, Kyrgyzstan, etc.) comes to negotiations on any issue ... they start asking for gas, or just loans, and tell us what friends they are for us, etc. .... our Foreign Ministry immediately puts on the table their history textbook for schools and pokes it into concrete lines with a snout ... and until the textbooks are replaced - from a dead donkey's ears ...
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              January 7 2013
              and often the Kazakhs ask Russia for gas and loans, comrade geostrategic? I suggest immediately stop selling gas to Kazakhs and Turkmens. what to wait there. immediately and instantly solve all problems :)))))))))))))))))))))))
              1. +3
                January 7 2013
                Clarify what your state was called before ...?
                1. Marek Rozny
                  -1
                  January 10 2013
                  Quote: Swag
                  Clarify what your state was called before ...?

                  Kazakh Khanate. Good luck in studying the history of neighbors.
              2. +2
                January 9 2013
                Here’s how your essence was immediately offended — you have gas and a great space power — a huge cosmodrome — and only with your exceptional antiquity, Kazakhs have a slightly indirect relation to the achievements of present-day Kazakhstan and developed industrial production — they lived in yurts not far away, but then everything got to that and that’s stop .... so that is how the fighters against colonization and colonialists come on, shaving men wait for you to civilize
                1. Marek Rozny
                  0
                  January 10 2013
                  Excuse me, but before the Bolsheviks were the Russians a literate and intelligent people without exception? How long has the Russian people stopped knitting bast shoes before the Kazakhs joke? And everything that was built in Kazakhstan was more than paid for by the Kazakhs. Let me remind you that the famine in Kazakhstan (Ukraine, the Volga region) was caused by the fact that Stalin confiscated grain and cattle in order to pay off the office of Albert Kahn, who, in fact, built both the Kazakhs and Russians the entire basis of the modern industry of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan. In the first two five-year plans, more than one hundred thousand engineers and workers from the USA and Western Europe worked on the territory of the USSR. And they also trained "ravshans and dzhamshuts" from Russian huts and Kazakh yurts. The first Soviet engineers appeared in this way. For a small cohort of pre-revolutionary Russian engineers (more often of German origin) was devoured by the Revolution practically without a trace. And what appeared in the KZ before the Bolsheviks was built mainly by the British and Germans, and not by the "Russian people".
                  1. 0
                    January 10 2013
                    So there it was that the West didn’t lose it either — it didn’t work out to ruin the country by throwing firewood into the firebox of the civil war, so it turns out they decided to build a strong and developed communist state. Apparently so that later it would be someone to expose the concentration of world evil. A very smart move, however.
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      +1
                      January 10 2013
                      Are you friends with history? The United States was in the Great Depression during the first Soviet five-year plans. African engineers eagerly rode under the roof of Albert Kahn’s office in the USSR to earn money. Remember who actually created the ZIL and DneproGES. I do not mean unqualified labor force, namely, engineers and designers who were all from cap.countries.
                      1. 0
                        January 11 2013
                        Yes, of course there were foreign engineers, and this is a fact since the same Bolsheviks knocked out their own from the West - and before that, Russia was one of the leading countries in the world and in terms of the rate of development of production was in the leading positions, and that's why 1 was also imposed on us by the West World and Japanese war and the continuation of the revolution and civil war with the Second World War and the destruction of the USSR is the same fact of the consequences for the West to prevent the development of the country. And what is invented by the Russians, look for information and understand - but show the question, at least one invention of world significance or a discovery made by Kazakhs or other Turks, then we’ll talk about bast shoes
                      2. Marek Rozny
                        0
                        January 11 2013
                        1) According to known data, in the period from 1929-1939, about 100 thousand Western engineers and workers worked in the USSR.
                        2) The Bolsheviks drove and shot the tsar’s engineers from the West? A Th not by order of the Martians?
                        3) Russia until 1917 was no "leading" in the industry. Russia simply could not produce Mosin rifles or Adrian's helmets even in sufficient quantities. I'm not talking about tanks, airplanes or anything else. Yes, there is technology, even the history of cement until recently in Russia they did not know how to make, until the Germans launched factories in tsarist Russia somehow. And the pace of development from scratch always looks amazing. Now in Kazakhstan the growth of car production is 150%, 250% - what does it look like, eh? And in fact, relatively speaking, they produced 5 cars a year, and now they are 12. Great automobile power. The same "great industrial power" as Russia before the revolution. Or are you confused with the fact that Russia produced flax, eggs and metal? Then yes, Russia was strong here.
                        White emigrant, monarchist and anti-communist Solonevich writes about tsarist Russia the following:
                        "The fact of the extreme economic backwardness of Russia in comparison with the rest of the cultural world is not subject to any doubt. According to the figures of 1912, the national income per capita was 720 rubles in the United States (in gold, pre-war terms), in England - 500, in Germany - 300, in Italy - 230 and in Russia - 110.
                        So the average Russian, even before the First World War, was almost 7 times poorer than the average American, and more than 2 times poorer than the average Italian. Even bread - our main wealth - was scarce. If England per capita consumed 24 poods, Germany 27 poods, and the USA - as much as 62 poods, then Russian consumption of bread was only 21 poods - including all this and fodder for livestock. At the same time, it should be borne in mind that bread occupied such a place in the food ration of Russia as nowhere else in other countries. In the rich countries of the world bread was replaced by meat and dairy products and fish "(I. Solonevich" People's Monarchy ")
                        4) About science. Our Turkestan contribution to the world scientific treasury happened much earlier. 9-12 centuries. Al-Farabi, who was called in Europe "the Second Teacher of the world after Aristotle", Al-Biruni, who proved the sphericity of the Earth and the fact that the Earth revolves around the Sun 500 years before Copernicus, and at the same time made the first globe, Al-Khwarizmi, who created modern algebra (by the way, his works were so often referred to by European scientists of the Renaissance that his name became the word "algorithm"), Ibn Sina - the greatest physician of the early Middle Ages and many other representatives of Turkestan. And even the famous Omar Hayheim, who is known to modern Russians exclusively as a drunken poet, was the mathematician who derived the mathematical unit, which Europe rediscovered much later and called the "Newton binomial".
          4. AndreyAB
            +3
            January 4 2013
            Now in the great sovereign countries, every nationalist gopher is already an agronomist, it’s a pity that the peoples are being fooled by this stupidity, not even realizing that this is just a path to the abyss, it’s a pity. And you don’t need to resort, everyone lives where they lived, you just have to turn your face again and not ... sing, and then you should be ashamed of your nationalists.
      4. Charon
        0
        January 8 2013
        ... and he eats and eats everything.
    2. +11
      January 3 2013
      For sure! If not for Russia, they would still live in adobe huts, eat on the floor and ride donkeys, while singing songs about "what I see, I sing." All these history textbooks are "bullshit". The worst thing is that our sovereigns, conquering new lands, or annexing them to Russia, built, erected, laid for the money of Russia, that is, with the money of Russian taxpayers. At the same time, as a result of land reforms carried out by Khrushchev, Russia lost many square kilometers of land: Crimea - Ukraine; The northern and eastern regions, the regions adjacent to the Caspian Sea, never belonged to Kazakhstan and were annexed by Khrushchev. also, at the behest of Catherine, with the filing of Potemkin, all Little Russia was annexed to Ukraine - this is again the loss of Russia. On the other hand, who thought that there would be people who betrayed the interests of Russia and allowed to tear it apart, thereby trample all the merits of our ancestors.
    3. YARY
      +5
      January 3 2013
      What a horror .... Russian barbarians broke into villages, villages and camps, leaving cities, hospitals and universities behind their backs.


      And who - who and taught the great need to sit sitting taught
      1. +2
        January 3 2013
        You added the enemies of Russia with your comments. How many "foreigners" have glorified Russia? Look at the glorious names of the Heroes of Russia since ancient times.
        "What a horror ... Russian barbarians burst into auls, villages and camps, leaving behind their backs cities, hospitals, universities." And this "friends" do not remember.
      2. Marek Rozny
        +1
        January 7 2013
        Quote: Ardent
        And who - who and taught the great need to sit sitting taught
        are you talking about your ancestors and what they standing shit? Horrible...
    4. Gur
      +4
      January 3 2013
      Yep mother .... even ashamed, it’s kind of like not Finns, we are not Estonians to slow down so much, why did you need 17-15 years old to raise it to the rank of a bomb ??
      And not only is the history rewritten, for some reason there was a bunch of their unclaimed (or simply mediocre by the standards of the USSR) scribblers of textbooks, from mathematics to physics and chemistry, with their views on processes, and with such ingeniously arranged definitions that it’s not a bubble (without a bubble you can figure it out) crap will not help you understand what they mean by that. And the children learn something ...
      1. +1
        January 3 2013
        What to talk about? Western pi # boliya is what brings it to. The result is visible on the video.
        http://www.odnoklassniki.ru/spasibodeduzapobedu/topic/61457479191432
      2. +6
        January 3 2013
        Quote: GUR
        somehow it’s not Finns we

        By the way, about the Finns, there’s someone who has suffered from us ... and they were our province even before the war, so what?
        -SILENCE!
        - Well done "dates" that do not descend to the level of the pseudo humiliated! This is a kid!
        1. webdog
          +4
          January 4 2013
          so they are genetically 99% Russian ...
          and what a real battle is with the Russians - they also know by hearsay. And this is already worth a lot)))
          1. webdog
            +6
            January 4 2013
            I apologize for being off topic:

            On July 13, 1941, in battles near the city of Chisinau, when delivering ammunition to his company near the town of Pesets, a machine-gun company of the 389th rifle regiment of the 176th rifle division of the 9th Army of the Southern Front, the Red Army soldier D. R. Ovcharenko was surrounded by a detachment of soldiers and enemy officers of 50 people. At the same time, the enemy managed to seize his rifle.
            However, D. R. Ovcharenko was not at a loss and grabbed an ax from the wagon, chopped off the head of the officer questioning him, threw 3 grenades at the enemy soldier, destroying 21 soldiers. The rest fled in panic. Then he caught up with the second officer and also chopped off his head. The third officer managed to escape. Then he collected documents and maps from the dead and arrived with the cargo in the company.

            By a decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of November 9, 1941 “for exemplary performance of command missions on the front against the Nazi invaders and courage and heroism shown at the same time”, Red Army Ovcharenko Dmitry Romanovich was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union with the Order of Lenin and the Gold Medal Star
          2. 0
            January 4 2013
            This is us at 99% Finno-Ugric wink , and the rest 1% of Russians and does not suspect! wassat
      3. Gur
        +2
        January 4 2013
        And then the flag is like a gift for the next rank ??))))) not mine it is not mine ...
        1. Van
          +4
          January 4 2013
          The friends of the commonwealth woke up late, they probably forgot to whom they owe their freedom, you see, they don’t like history, would you present your claims to our warriors ancestors or grandfather "Stalin" looking into the eyes. lol
          I think that if it were not for Russia with its willpower and sacrifice of its sons, many nationalities would have sunk into oblivion, and their history would have long been forgotten. fellow

          PS Any census of History is a crime against all of humanity. For whoever does not know his past is doomed to hard trials in the future.
          1. +2
            January 5 2013
            Absolutely right! So the brothers of the Kazakhs were first sold by the Tatar-Mongols into slavery, then the Jungars were destroyed. Well it was a long time ago - forgotten!
            And how did the Chinese cut off men's virtues in the fifties? It seems that years have not passed much. No, the Russians are invaders.
            Russia will only hint to the Chinese that it will not interfere - in 24 hours this great state (the Republic of Kazakhstan) will not exist. And the Kazakhs will run to Russia - "Save dear brothers Russians".
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              January 7 2013
              Sars, you are such a mega-historian in Kazakhstan, I think you will easily answer my naive questions:
              1) You know that until now all the steppe inhabitants, that the Turks, that the Mongols are divided into genera. Moreover, the names of the clans are recorded from the early Middle Ages in Chinese, Persian, Turkic, Arab sources - their leaders, their vassality, their number and location. Question: what specific "Tatar-Mongol" clan were the Kazakh sellers from? I will help you with the answer with a small hint - the "Tatar-Mongols" in Kazakhstan consisted of the clans Naiman, Kerey, Argyn, Konyrat, Kiyat, Kypshak, Usun, Barlas, Zhalayyr, Dulat and others. Although another question arises - who did these clans sell, considering that the Kazakhs consist of these clans? My Argyn subgenus is called "karauyl" - "guardsman, guard" (the Russian word "guard" is from here) because for centuries they were the personal guard of the Chingizids. Many people my ancestors herachil, but I just can't remember when it was my family that was sold into slavery by the "Tatar-Mongols".
              2) In what geographical place did the Chinese cut off men's belongings to the Kazakhs? In the territory of Kazakhstan? In China? It really became curious about this topic :)))))
              3) As for the allusions to the Chinese invasion. You will forgive me that I offend your honor as a professional historian, but could you tell us about the biggest military victories of China in the history of this glorious state? And then, as far as I remember from history, how many of my steppe ancestors wanted, so many times they smashed China to the smithereens. Outright. And recall in what year the Russian army defended the Kazakhs? And what glorious battles did she have to defend the foolish nomads? And then I can not find such battles in the glorious history of Russian weapons.
              ZY Even if we freely fantasize and imagine how the Chinese for the first time in their history defeated the Turks, did we not think that the "terrible and great" Chinese would begin to border on the Volgograd region and even the "harsh" Chelyabinsk region? :))))) Russia will scrape together the money for the arrangement of the world's longest land border? Or do you not know that the Kazakh-Russian border is such? :))))) Burn further, "historian and strategist" :)))) Compose fables about how the Chinese cut Kazakhs' pussies, about how Kazakh families sold each other into slavery, and about how Russia went crazy and preferred to have a Russian-Chinese border in the Urals, than to communicate with Kazakhs :))))))))))))
              1. 0
                January 9 2013
                Kazakhs have already become Chingizids! Genghis Khan, wasn’t of you by any chance?
                Where did the Mamluks come from? Have you sold yourself into slavery? But the Cossacks didn’t protect you from the Dzungars with their villages? But they didn’t even take such soldiers to the imperial army (and only to the construction battalion in the Soviet army).
                1. Beck
                  +1
                  January 9 2013
                  And why, without knowing the subject, get in a conversation, and even so categorically. Yes, it’s furious, as if they just woke up.

                  Quote: SarS
                  Where did the Mamluks come from?


                  "Mamluks are a military caste in medieval Egypt, recruited from young slaves of Turkic (Kypchak) and Caucasian (Georgians and Circassians) origin, Georgian Mamluks were called Burjis."
                  Burji is basically a border guard. And the Bay Bars, the third sultan of Egypt, the Kipchak. The Kipchaks were captured as a result of the constant wars in the Desht-i-Kipchak steppe.

                  Quote: SarS
                  But they didn’t even take such soldiers to the imperial army (and only to the construction battalion in the Soviet army).


                  Your tongue is not dry from such words, or your eyes are frozen, and your ears are blocked by chauvinism.

                  They did not take into the imperial army observing the clauses of the agreement on Kazakhstan’s annexation to Russia of 1748. The relevant paragraph stated that the steppe inhabitants refuse to carry and use weapons, and the empire undertakes to guarantee security and not to draft the steppes into the army. And more from this point Russia won.

                  And in the Red Army the steppes served not only as ordinary soldiers, but also as officers. General Rakhimov. twice GSS Bigeldinov, major, pilot attack aircraft. The lieutenant, commander of a reconnaissance platoon, Koshkarbayev was the first with Private Bulat to put up a banner on the Reichstag.

                  In the post-war period, a test pilot of fighters, the MiG design bureau, Aubakirov. The first to lift the MiG from the deck of the Soviet aircraft carrier. And many others. Yes, I myself served as a tank commander.

                  SarS. Do not disgrace the Russian people with their ignorance and thirst. You’ll be silent, they won’t call a fool, it’s better for you.
                  1. +1
                    January 10 2013
                    Comrade Kazakhs, it’s you who invented nonsense about what you are the greatest people. All your ancestors or warriors or sages.
                    Personally, I don't care. But when you start talking nonsense how the Russians exploited you ("they taught you to drink vodka and not respect your elders"). I immediately have a desire to tell who the "golden people" really are.
                    I have lived in Kazakhstan for more than twenty years, there is much to remember.
                    1. Beck
                      +1
                      January 10 2013
                      Quote: SarS
                      Comrade Kazakhs, it’s you who invented nonsense about what you are the greatest people. All your ancestors or warriors or sages.


                      My people are not great people. This is the Great Russian people. But some of you, clouded by greatness, do not want to know, and did not know the history of neighboring peoples. When we cite some facts from our humble history, such as you stand on their hind legs - Yes, not x-I myself? Get fucked up. Yes, it can’t be. And all just because they are accustomed to looking down on the surrounding peoples from above and scornfully. Well, no luck in history. A khan like your Tsar Peter 1 didn’t freak out in our steppe. And, now a word cannot be spoken?

                      I’ll mention your building battalion again. I drafted into the army loading tank. My bedmate, mechanic Komarov, was also a man of good faith. He buzzed all my ears that they didn’t take the Azites as gunners, mechanics, commanders, they say only Slavs. And none of my arguments acted on him, I almost got into fights. After half a year of service, I was transferred to gunners and came to the battle replenishment of mechanics, all the Kyrgyz. After another half a year, I was transferred to the tank commander and a year later I served as the tank commander.
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        January 10 2013
                        My own uncle Mukhametkali was also a tank commander in the Soviet army in the 70s. Even a newspaper article about him survived with a photograph. And in general, none of my relatives served in the construction battalion - most of the explosives, someone KGB, one tanker, one carrier, one paratrooper, etc. It's just that Sars floods out of topic. Or personal children's complexes in front of the Kazakhs, who know their ancestors, and he - apparently, is unlikely. He also recalls an anecdote about the "gold", but it is strange that the more "gold" left, the better all the other Kazakhstanis began to live. Eeeh, if these "price gatherers" would have raised their Russia, they would not have had prices. Who in Russia and Kazakhstan do they know from the cohort of "golden people" who returned to Russia as well-known politicians, athletes, businessmen, representatives of art and science? For 20 years, not a single ex-"golden Kazakhstani" has achieved anything significant in their historical homeland. But they like to talk about a hundred thousand milens who were forced to leave Kazakhstan for Russia. Where are they? At least a couple of "golden" surnames that the whole of Russia has become proud of?
  2. toguns
    +31
    January 3 2013
    Through Greco-Palestine
    Hiding incense in a scimitar
    Had a hajj to Ukraine
    Pope Genghis Khan.

    Carried to Merrida Magdalene
    In Giza, he is in a present;
    At him in his native Berlin
    The whole convention took up arms.

    (Spitting on him in charisma,
    Disliked well done -
    For addiction to Buddhism
    And for the black complexion.)

    He rode short, long
    The river blocked the way!
    Either Valga, or Volga,
    Or simply Oka.

    With the Hunnas of Lacuna
    Rowing along the coast
    And the Punic runes
    Under Ovid sing:

    Quid est veritas, boyars?
    Stultis scriptas manifest!
    Sapiens nil admirare,
    Credo quia absurdum est!

    Our hero opened his throat:
    "Com tsu world! Their bin client!
    Arrendatto vide the boat! .. "
    But - an incident happened.

    Something whistled in the sky
    And sick land - clap!
    Unidentified body
    It hit the guy in the forehead.

    (That under the iron piece
    Granite sprinkled to the sides -
    Moses chopped a chisel
    On the tablets of the alphabet!)

    Fail me in place
    He lay down
    According to Scaliger - two hundred years,
    According to Petavius ​​- a hundred!

    The world is a lot of hemorrhoids
    I raped for this period.
    For example, Achaeans of Troy
    Surrendered to the Germans

    To decorate their Reichstag.
    And then there was a plague,
    And the calling of the Varangians
    From Athens to Belomor,

    On the Moscow River in Constantinople
    Romulus Roman slammed
    And Homer in Tiberias
    He finished his "Carmen".

    And when the sleeping one woke up,
    He began to feel his skeleton:
    It looks like it’s real,
    But actually - no.

    A fly circled in heaven;
    With oak mummy leaves
    Circled. Out of my ear
    The snake crept silently ...

    ... grateful peoples
    There they poured a mound.
    Steamboats sail
    They say: "But pasaran!"

    Pioneers come running,
    They drag eggs and Easter cake.
    And they shout: "Down with the chimeras!
    Sleep well, our Ilyich! "

    Goryainov Oleg
  3. +39
    January 3 2013
    I apologize for the offtopic!
    MOSCOW, 3 Jan - RIA News. Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree the French actor Gerard Depardieu was admitted to the citizenship of the Russian Federation, the Kremlin website said on Thursday.

    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/society/20130103/917053740.html#ixzz2GtpI1ZfM

    This is the answer to all the ill-wishers of Russia! laughing
    1. Cavas
      +13
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Apollon
      Apollo



      COME BACK !!!
      1. +9
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Cavas
        COME BACK !!!


        into the updated UNION !!! drinks fellow
        1. Cavas
          +20
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Apollon
          into the updated UNION !!!

          And what, in the old weak !!!! drinks fellow


          1. +1
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Cavas
            And what, in the old weak !!!!

            Is this a call for a revival of colonial politics? laughing
            1. WW3
              WW3
              +21
              January 3 2013
              Quote: olegyurjewitch
              Is this a call for a revival of colonial politics?
              This is the restoration of the sovereignty of the USSR! soldier
          2. +5
            January 3 2013
            In the garbage pit of the Baltic states!
            1. +8
              January 3 2013
              Incidentally, tribaltics is the key to Sweden and Finland. Moreover, you can occupy Chukhontsev’s business, feed the Russian Army a new look. So, purely from a strategic point of view, there is nothing for the invaders to leave bridgeheads on truly Russian land, and even paid for in blood and ringing coin.
            2. -1
              January 4 2013
              Quote: GoldKonstantin
              In the garbage pit of the Baltic states!

              When I served, we had almost all BMD gunner’s operators in Lithuania.
          3. +5
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Cavas
            And what, in the old weak !!!!


            Dear Mat! I just drew attention to your comment.
            My answer is the state, by which I am a citizen in a referendum vote on the preservation of the USSR, voted ZA. In the percentage of those who voted FOR, my vote is also listed! IMHO

            So I'm not weak !!! Weak to those who voted against. laughing
    2. akbarr
      0
      January 3 2013
      It is clearly written there that Russia did not receive a request from Citizen Depardieu for citizenship! Read carefully!
      RIA - has long turned into a cheap yellow newspaper. Write headlines that do not meet the content.
      1. +6
        January 3 2013
        Putin gave a press conference about this. Depardieu is now Russian !!!
      2. +8
        January 3 2013
        Quote: akbarr
        It is clearly written there that Russia did not receive a request from Citizen Depardieu for citizenship! Read carefully!
        RIA - has long turned into a cheap yellow newspaper. Write headlines that do not meet the content.


        just to blurt out something laughing

        Peskov explained for what merits Depardieu received Russian citizenship
        MOSCOW, 3 January. Press Secretary of President Vladimir Putin Dmitry Peskov explained the granting of Russian citizenship to actor Gerard Depardieu by his contribution to the development of Russian cinema.

        "The fact is that Depardieu played in a number of very large film projects, played roles, including his work on the role of Rasputin," he told Interfax. Peskov noted that "this film has not yet been released in our screens, but this is a very bold and new dubbing of this role."

        We are talking about the film "Rasputin", which was filmed at the initiative of Gerard Depardieu. Watch the video about the filming here.
        Read more: http://www.rosbalt.ru/main/2013/01/03/1078482.html
        1. +7
          January 3 2013
          Quote: akbarr
          It is clearly written there that Russia did not receive a request from Citizen Depardieu for citizenship!
          Decree on admission to the citizenship of the Russian Federation

          3 January 2013, 12: 00

          Vladimir Putin signed a decree on admission to the citizenship of the Russian Federation Gerard Depardieu.

          Full text of the Decree “On Admission to the Citizenship of the Russian Federation”:

          In accordance with paragraph "a" of Article 89 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation to satisfy the application for the admission to the citizenship of the Russian Federation Depardieu Gerard Xavier, born in 1948 in France.

          3 January 2013, 12: 00

          then the statement still was! IMHO
          1. +4
            January 4 2013
            Quote: akbarr
            Write headlines that do not meet the content.


            and so you don’t have any doubts at all, read this at your leisure

            Depardieu admitted that he adores Russia and wants to learn Russian

            PARIS, 3 January. / Corr. ITAR-TASS Sergey Shcherbakov /. Gerard Depardieu loves Russia and intends to take up the study of the Russian language. The famous actor announced this today in his letter, excerpts from which the French press publishes after the news of the granting of Russian citizenship to the artist.
            “Yes, I made a request for a passport, and I'm glad that my request was accepted,” writes Depardieu. According to him, he “loves Russia” - its culture, history and way of thinking of people. The actor recalls that his father "was once a communist and listened to Radio Moscow."
            “I like making films here, in which I work together with actors such as Vladimir Mashkov,” admitted Depardieu. In addition, Russia “is not a state where the prime minister could call a citizen of his country a pitiful man,” the actor writes, alluding to the words of the French prime minister, which seriously hurt Depardieu’s feelings.
            In his letter, the master of cinema makes it clear that the idea of ​​living in Russia does not scare him at all. True, not in Moscow - "too big a metropolis." “I prefer the village, in Russia I know wonderful places,” said the actor.
            “I will learn Russian,” - said Depardieu.

            http://www.itar-tass.com/c1/614814.html
            1. mda
              mda
              0
              January 4 2013
              Quote: Apollon
              Depardieu admitted that he adores Russia and wants to learn Russian

              Absolutely at the old woman of Europe the roof went if millionaires to Russia leave Europe!
    3. +3
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Apollon
      Putin signed a decree on admitting French actor Gerard Depardieu to the citizenship of the Russian Federation,

      Well, now for Russia you can be calm. Putin and Depardieu are a great force.
      1. +9
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Karabin
        Putin and Depardieu are a great force.

        Osterix and Obelix mean? ... laughing
        1. +2
          January 3 2013
          Nick,
          Haberdashery and Cardinal.
  4. +28
    January 3 2013
    For most peoples living in the Russian Empire ... the USSR did not have a pronounced negative. That the Russian Empire, that the USSR did not, in contrast to the enlightened impudent Saxons, French, Germans, Spaniards and other colonial powers, carried out a policy of exterminating the population on colonized lands. Moreover, for the same Armenians, Georgians, Moldavians and other great Chukhons, joining the Republic of Ingushetia, and then the USSR, saved these peoples from destruction and genocide. Now the people of these countries are hammered that they are Russian enemies, but the essence of history is that sooner or later everything will fall into place.
    1. +13
      January 3 2013
      And how many vacancies in universities there were for representatives of various nationalities. We learned it on our own head.
      1. mamba
        +10
        January 3 2013
        Quote: andrei.2012
        And how many vacancies in universities there were for representatives of various nationalities. We learned it on our own head.

        Unfortunately, you are right. The new national intelligentsia begins self-identification, as a rule, with nationalism, which quickly turns into Russophobia. Usually the motivation is a feeling of inferiority, but it is driven into the depths of the subconscious. Living there, this feeling gradually destroys the soul of the "national intellectual", radicalizing him in the direction of chauvinism and fascism.
      2. +6
        January 3 2013
        Quote: andrei.2012
        . Learned on their own head.

        Seen badly taught. They did not instill respect and reverence for teachers.
  5. Krasnoyarsk
    -1
    January 3 2013
    To hell with the Eurasian Union, into the forest of such allies.
    1. bukyak
      +3
      January 3 2013
      They are not like that! They lost the war, and the winner began to write a story for himself, pursuing one single goal - DO NOT ALLOW THE RECREATION OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE, since the RUSSIAN EMPIRE is a COMPETITOR in the COMPETITION OF NATIONS, which is already over 2000 years old !!!
      watch the "movie"
      1. +4
        January 3 2013
        Quote: bukyak
        We lost the war

        And who lost the warrior?
        1. bukyak
          -2
          January 3 2013
          What do you think happened in the 1991th year?
          1. +23
            January 3 2013
            Quote: bukyak
            What do you think happened in the 1991th year?

            Want to say that we lost to whom? If you are talking about the victory of the United States in a cold warrior, then this is a feast of victory, and it’s difficult to call it such. Now analyzing what is happening and who is winning, the West is in flames, and Russia is gaining momentum.
            The Germans stood at the walls of Moscow and also talked about victory, but in the end ................ hi
            1. bukyak
              +13
              January 3 2013
              What kind of feast victory are we talking about if our homeland was cut into pieces ?! the vast majority of military factories, the LAWS of Russia, the CONSTITUTION of Russia, and school textbooks on HISTORY were written under the dictation of the American advisers who ~ until 2003 occupied TWO floors in our white house! ....... I'm not talking about the USSR’s gold reserve, which supposedly disappeared without a trace, an agreement on the export by the Americans of ALL WEAPON PLUTONIUM with which gold is not near, both in price and importance !!! .... there’s not enough site to list all the results of this peer (like you say) victory !!!
              1. +23
                January 3 2013
                Quote: bukyak
                ..site is not enough to list all the results of this feast (as you say) victory !!!

                Yes, you can list and cry, just read carefully my posts.
                Now in what position is Russia and, in your words, the victorious west? \
                We lost fights with heavy losses, but not to the warrior !!!
                although you can continue to put cons and shout-ALL DROPPED. hi
                1. bukyak
                  +1
                  January 3 2013
                  where did you see in my words that "everything is gone" or at least a hint of panic ?????? ...... THIS IS A FACT !!! how can you not understand that RUSSIA IS NOT SOVEREIGN, and the only way to regain sovereignty is WAR, a real HOT WAR, at least until the beginning of the 21st century it was the ONLY WAY, and for 2000 years mankind has not invented other ways ... ............ THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR was exactly that ...... the West invented Hitler for one single purpose - to remove the alleged "bloody dictator Stalin", but in fact, Stalin is a by-product , arranged by the Anglo-Saxons revolution in Russia, and the revolution for the destruction of Russia ........... and so after the Second World War Russia became 100% sovereign !!!

                  Here are two maps: the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. How do you think they differ?
                  1. Nurker
                    -8
                    January 3 2013
                    Quote: bukyak
                    where did you see in my words that "everything is gone" or at least a hint of panic ?????? ...... THIS IS A FACT !!! how can you not understand that RUSSIA IS NOT SOVEREIGN, and the only way to regain sovereignty is WAR, a real HOT WAR, at least until the beginning of the 21st century it was the ONLY WAY, and for 2000 years mankind has not invented other ways ... ............ THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR was exactly that ...... the West invented Hitler for one single purpose - to remove the alleged "bloody dictator Stalin", but in fact, Stalin is a by-product , arranged by the Anglo-Saxons revolution in Russia, and the revolution for the destruction of Russia ........... and so after the Second World War Russia became 100% sovereign !!!


                    Dear, are you by any chance not a COGSMAN?
                    1. bukyak
                      -4
                      January 3 2013
                      NO!!!! not a BOB!! ......... this is a reality that for some reason you don’t want to see, and everyone thinks that it’s impossible to defeat the Russians ....... yes, in the OPEN WAR, few people succeeded, or rather units
                      1. Nurker
                        -4
                        January 3 2013
                        Quote: bukyak
                        NO!!!! not a BOB!! ......... this is a reality that for some reason you don’t want to see, and everyone thinks that it’s impossible to defeat the Russians ....... yes, in the OPEN WAR, few people succeeded, or rather units


                        I see this reality, just until I’m the supreme commander in chief and I can’t change the policy much, so I start with myself: I stop drinking, smoke, don’t buy what I don’t need, in a word I do a good thing for myself and my relatives.

                        And if you open a war and fight there again with the Germans or Americans, it turns out that the elite uses you
                      2. bukyak
                        +1
                        January 3 2013
                        our elite, almost EVERYTHING, except for a small handful of people, ARTIFICIAL, UNREAL, THE AMERICAN'S APPEALS ........ I will not name any surnames here, because each of us must realize this, I mean who is with the people , and who is "KO NDOM" ....... and I will also add that I am the so-called liberals - PUTINETS wink , voted for him without hesitation and any thought !!! ....... I do not drink and do not smoke, and for this it is not necessary to be a KOBovets !!!
                      3. -6
                        January 3 2013
                        Quote: nurker
                        And if you open a war and fight there again with the Germans or Americans, it turns out that the elite uses you

                        1) Do not want your own elite to use you - someone else will use it.
                        2) You do not open (unleash) a war, do not, you are preparing for protection.
                        3) And when you defend your country from China, will you think that you are being used by the elite of Kazakhstan? I think no. I think you do not want to fight "Germans or Americans". Do you think that "while eating Russia they will choke, and at this time you will" do a useful thing for yourself and your loved ones. "?
                    2. +5
                      January 3 2013
                      Quote: nurker
                      how do you not understand that RUSSIA is not sovereign

                      We were captured is the MATRIX belay AAAAAAAAAAAAAA, yes this is not panic, this is the finish wassat
                      1. Cavas
                        +7
                        January 3 2013
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        We were captured is the MATRIX

                        Sanya, let’s we go ask them their homework ????
                      2. bukyak
                        -2
                        January 3 2013
                        Ie, in your opinion, I invented it?! ..... Here's what is written below in my post, it's all in the DOCUMENTS, that is, it's not my invention, it's our story, and the real reality! And if the TV did not talk about this for 20 years, then this does not mean that all this does not exist! The winner in the war (no matter what the war is), first of all seizes control of ALL the media for rubbing the population of his PROPOGANDA, only not directly "rules", but through the protégés - GUSINSKY, KHODORKOVSKY, BEREZOVSKY and rochi ... . How do you think the scientists of the Soviet research institutes became BILLIARDS?
                      3. MG42
                        +9
                        January 3 2013
                        Quote: bukyak
                        ALL the media for rubbing the population of their PROPOGANDA, only not directly "taxis", but through the protégés - GUSINSKY, KHODORKOVSKY, BEREZOVSKY and rochih.

                        You have old data. <others are no longer there, but those are far away> but what am I telling you to a Russian, you know that Boris Abramich is in London, Gusinsky in Israel, Khodorkovsky and Lebedev in places not so distant are winding up. lol And he owns the media empire of Gusinsky Gazprom - media, Berezovsky - state-in. And Yukos Rosneft. It looks like you are living under the wrong flag by chance (this is an assumption).
                      4. bukyak
                        -3
                        January 3 2013
                        Comrade, do not attribute to me what I did not say! wink
                      5. MG42
                        +9
                        January 3 2013
                        Tambov Wolf comrade to you "Russian" wink You are late with your knowledge of Russian reality almost 10 years.
                      6. bukyak
                        -6
                        January 3 2013
                        fuck, but the ambition is ........ what, do you think that you caught me on something ?! laughing ......................... keep thinking that you know something wink ! or rather, you know exactly how much the TV tells you! ...... well, and you also have "FREE and DEMOCRATIC" thorns where you have "FULL FREEDOM OF CHOICE" laughing
                      7. +12
                        January 3 2013
                        Quote: MG42



                        It’s such a tactic to ascribe to the current government all the sins of the seven-bankers of the 90s, emphasizing that Putin is the protege of these bankers and continues to spread rot in Russia as before. Something ruins for a long time, twelve years does nothing! And if he is trying to develop something, it means he is preparing the country for surrender, well, as repairing an apartment before selling it would be nice for the new owners. Therefore, probably his true owners are unhappy and are trying to remove him, but for some reason he is not cleaned. Or they are no longer quite masters

                        I Caught a Russian Bear ,,, So Lead It Here ,,, Do Not Let ,,,
                      8. Agronomist
                        +1
                        January 3 2013
                        The current government is not only Putin wink , or rather not so much, you seriously think that one person can rule the country ....? It is strange that someone else did not respond from the moderators to defend their laughing . Pounced on one person who went against the party lol
                      9. Agronomist
                        0
                        January 3 2013
                        You didn’t make up just this resource is also controlled by these persons, so they strangle, at least by minuses drinks
                      10. bukyak_1
                        -2
                        January 4 2013
                        Yes, they banned me altogether and deleted all my posts laughing
                      11. MG42
                        +2
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: bukyak_1
                        Yes, they banned me altogether and deleted all my posts

                        At the very least, it sounds strange as you are here on the site = under a foreign flag for you, shout "we lost in the cold war!" "Russia is a non-sovereign state", etc. feel . Someone is inefficiently investing in such bots you stop
                      12. bukyak_1
                        -2
                        January 4 2013
                        MG - you are CRETIN !!!
                2. bukyak
                  -5
                  January 3 2013
                  Where in my words did you see at least a hint that "everything was lost" or some kind of panic ?! IT IS A FACT!!! How can you not understand that Russia is NOT a sovereign state, and to say more, the Russian Federation was created by AMERICANS, whether you like it or not !!! And the only way to regain sovereignty is WAR, a real HOT WAR, at least for 2000 years mankind has not invented another way ........ The Great Patriotic War was exactly THIS ......... the West invented Hitler with only one goal - to remove the so-called "bloody dictator Stalin", and Stalin is a by-product of the REVOLUTION that the Anglo-Saxons muddied to destroy Russia, which was what happened in the early years of Soviet power, the JIDES under the command of the JIDA US CITIZEN ( if I’m not mistaken) TROTSKY, DESTROYED EVERYTHING RUSSIAN, primarily the RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH, THE RUSSIAN TSAR AND HIS ALL FAMILY, AND STALIN STOPPED ALL THIS, and began to destroy all this ZhIDVU with their followers ... .... That's against THIS "Tirana", Hitler and came up with !!!!!! ............. So, ONLY after the Second World War, Russia became 150% sovereign !!!. .......................... AND YOU, if you want, then continue to think that all this happened by itself, well, whether someone just wanted something there!
                  1. +6
                    January 3 2013
                    Quote: bukyak
                    ... And YOU, if you want, then continue to think that all this happened by itself, well, or just someone wanted something there!

                    what are you talking about?
                    1. MG42
                      +7
                      January 3 2013
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      what are you talking about?

                  2. +3
                    January 3 2013
                    Quote: bukyak
                    The Russian Federation was created by the Americans, whether you want it or not !!!

                    I completely agree, after all, judging by the results of the referendum, the majority of the population voted for the preservation of the USSR, who would benefit from the creation of the Russian Federation .... on the rubble of the Soviet Union, if not our geopolitical "partners" ...?
                    1. bukyak
                      +2
                      January 3 2013
                      I noticed such a pattern (or what?), I look at the map of the Russian Empire of the 18-19th centuries, there is NOT A single national entity or autonomy! ... only Finland looks special. And I look at the map of the Soviet Union and immediately catch the eye of the republic: Ukrainian SSR, Kazakh SSR, etc. ... And they appeared far from accidental, and it was SPECIALLY planned and embodied ..... BUT IT WASN'T NONE of the national education in the RSFSR (Russia) ....... and what we see on the map of the modern Russian Federation ..........?! ............ is it true that does not seem like an accident ?!
                  3. +17
                    January 3 2013
                    Quote: bukyak
                    Where in my words did you see at least a hint that "everything was lost" or some kind of panic ?! IT IS A FACT!!! How do you not understand that Russia is NOT a sovereign state, but to say more- The Russian Federation was created by AMERICANS- whether you want it or not !!!


                    Created by INSTRUCTION OF AMERICAN ADVISERS, Feel the difference?
                    While Yeltsin-Kozyrev's Russia FOLLOWED their instructions, gradually surrendering sovereignty. Everything was normal for friend Bill and friend Kolya, And as soon as after Putin's bloody hebny came to power under the tutelage of Jewish Masons, it slowly began to RESTORATE SOVERINITY and everyone didn’t agree at all. ) to follow the transatlantic ORDERS, the "orange opposition", "de-Stalinizers", "nationalists", "separatists", etc. immediately appeared and became active as a naphthalene moth.
                    1. bukyak
                      +1
                      January 3 2013
                      Ascetic, here’s how to explain to people that THIS is the result of the defeat in the war, and not someone’s whim?! ....... and we talked only about the material losses of Russia, and how many PEOPLE have been lost in 1991 ~ ~ 2003 years!
                3. Agronomist
                  -8
                  January 3 2013
                  We are on our knees, and we don’t have to let dust in our eyes. In any case, if the amers bend to us tryndets will come even earlier. it is enough that our gold and currency reserves of their darlings are running out.
            2. 0
              January 3 2013
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              The Germans stood at the walls of Moscow

              A Marshal would need to know at what price the established positions were being won. And how much effort and blood is needed for this.
            3. Agronomist
              0
              January 3 2013
              It seems that the moderators either do not watch the insert, or simply bought by the bourgeoisie and act under their breath wink
              1. +2
                January 4 2013
                I also have this opinion. 2 months ago I posted an article on Radio Liberty, where "advanced" journalists scold Stephen Korn for the wrong policy of screwing up Russia with video
                http://oko-planet.su/politik/politwar/148432-ty-ne-prava-amerika-nado-ne-b-menya
                ta-krovati-perestavit-ili-mihail-sokolov-o-reforme-radio-svoboda-18.html

                Look like it.
                Stephen Korn respect and congratulations on the assignment of an extraordinary rank.
          2. GHG
            GHG
            +3
            January 3 2013
            They didn’t lose, they just went underground.
          3. MG42
            +8
            January 3 2013
            Quote: bukyak
            What do you think happened in the 1991th year?

            Bad = tone by question to answer the question characteristic of citizens of a particular nationality wink
          4. Nurker
            -11
            January 3 2013
            Quote: bukyak
            What do you think happened in the 1991th year?


            Nothing good and nothing bad
            1. +1
              January 4 2013
              what an informative and concretized answer .... let's keep up the good work success
          5. +2
            January 3 2013
            Quote: bukyak
            What do you think happened in the 1991th year?

            Actually, then all of us thought that we just had a match. Then we were told that we "lost". Hmm. To deceive and win, different things in general. Not?
            And in general, until pills for masochism are invented, they will "win" us.
      2. Cavas
        +6
        January 3 2013
        Quote: bukyak
        watch the "movie"

        Looked, and why ???

        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        who lost the warrior?

        Zhirik is cooler than trand !!!! wassat

        PS You listen carefully, then 20 years, then 6 years, then 40 years !!!)))
        One word DEPUTY !!!!!))) wassat
        1. bukyak
          -4
          January 3 2013
          What do you mean "what" and "trandit" ?? !! Now the question is addressed to you, WHAT do you think happened in 1991?
          1. +7
            January 3 2013
            Quote: bukyak
            Now the question is addressing you- WHAT do you think happened in the year 1991?

            Well, there was a betrayal, and not only in 91. With the advent of Hunchback it was the same. So who, whom, and under what circumstances lost?
          2. Cavas
            +8
            January 3 2013
            Quote: bukyak

            What do you mean "what" and "trandit" ?? !! Now the question is addressed to you, WHAT do you think happened in 1991?

            Why to me, did I stand at the helm ???
            In the best case, I was a stealer !!! wassat
            Want to talk about it! request
            Do not even think. I remember my mom’s tears !!!!
            1. +4
              January 3 2013
              Quote: Cavas
              Do not even think. I remember my mom’s tears !!!!


              plus to you!
          3. +8
            January 3 2013
            Quote: bukyak
            WHAT do you think happened in the 1991 year?


            performance has grown into drama, for the peoples of the USSR !!! IMHO
            1. bukyak
              -3
              January 3 2013
              and 1917 is also a performance ???
              1. Cavas
                +10
                January 3 2013
                Quote: bukyak
                and 1917 is also a performance ???

                Maybe we have different textbooks ???
                1. +6
                  January 3 2013
                  Quote: Cavas
                  Maybe we have different textbooks ???

                  Colleague +! good! No, he has different brains, and is imprisoned for something else ...
                  1. Cavas
                    +4
                    January 3 2013
                    Quote: Tersky
                    No, he has different brains, and is imprisoned for something else ...

                    You think?
                    But I strongly doubt that he even has them !!!))) wassat
        2. MG42
          +9
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Cavas
          Zhirik is cooler than trand !!!!

          Zhirik's laurels haunt MP Fedorov = there are practically no specific words
          1. Cavas
            +6
            January 3 2013
            Quote: MG42
            Zhirik's laurels haunt MP Fedorov = there are practically no specific words

            SO and I about it !!! hi
        3. mda
          mda
          +6
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Cavas
          Zhirik is cooler than trand !!

          Yes, he’s a Zhirik in Africa and Zhirik. I just don’t understand Zhirik-Jew (by his father's last name Eidelshtein) but pours mud on the west. Strange ...
          1. Cavas
            +7
            January 3 2013
            Quote: mda-a
            I just don’t understand Zhirik-Jew (father's surname is Eidelstein) and pours mud on the west. Strange ..

            Disguised, tsuka !!!))
            1. mda
              mda
              +4
              January 3 2013
              Quote: Cavas
              Disguised, tsuka !!!))

              Yeah, disguised ... but the United States likes to pour mud!
              1. mda
                mda
                +9
                January 3 2013
                Quote: mda-a
                .but the USA likes to pour mud!

                And bark at the debate
          2. Fox
            +5
            January 3 2013
            Quote: mda-a
            Zhirik-Jew (paternal surname Eidelstein) and pours mud west. Strange ...

            nothing strange ... you yourself answered the question ... among the Jews, the transfer of the gene pool goes ONLY through the mother, so he is "unclean" and the Novodvorsk and Alekseevs ("clean") hate him ...
          3. +1
            January 4 2013
            He is a clown, that’s the whole answer!
        4. Agronomist
          0
          January 3 2013
          So he is the deputy of the party that you are defending laughing
      3. +1
        January 3 2013
        No need to listen to this Bitch Fedorov. We were not defeated, our country and people were betrayed ....
        Wait, this freak voted to join the WTO, and in simple terms,FULFILLMENT OF Sovereignty and Putin (signed)) and Fedorov (voted-FOR)) - this is a concrete action on the future collapse of the country ...
        And everything else blah blah blah ....
      4. 0
        January 3 2013
        And you, friends, why are you sitting on top there, why did you lose the information war. Keep in mind, not the people, but you and why again Russia is losing. am
      5. +6
        January 3 2013
        We did not lose the war but only the battle, Nobody counts with the warriors.
        They did not reckon with us and even laughed at us in the "dashing 90s" Moreover, few people remember that the agenda at the end of the 90s really was the possibility of dividing Russia into national and territorial entities. To enclose the North Caucasus with a security fence as in Israel, to make Moscow and the region similar to banking Switzerland, to form the FER and separately the Siberian oil-bearing and gas-bearing regions like Tatarstan should be a special economic zone.
        Quote: bukyak
        watch the "movie"


        WAY LONG AT 10 YEARS-4 part. The first part of Semibankirshchina I already laid out



        Or watch a movie where the situation in which the country finds itself after the destruction of the USSR is analyzed, what new economic and geographical realities the state faced before drawing conclusions "Russian card-1"

        1. bukyak
          0
          January 3 2013
          Ascetic, what does the FIGHT mean?! .... then Germany can be brought into this category too, it can also be said that she lost the battle! although if you do not look at history, then looking at today's Germany, you can’t say at all that it lost something to someone .... isn’t it?! ............. although on the other on the philosophical side, we can say that the war did not stop, it only stopped, which is the TRUTH!
          ______________ And present-day Russia is less battle-worthy, and (pah pah pah) starting to revive on all fronts is nothing but the full merit of the CURRENT PRESIDENT and ITS MOVEMENT OF NATIONAL RESISTANCE !!! ..... no more no less!
        2. +8
          January 3 2013
          Film "Russian card-2"
          "Why Russia is not America"

      6. +3
        January 3 2013
        Quote: bukyak
        watch the "movie"

        Great video! sensible guy - this Fedorov. Thank!
    2. +12
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Krasnoyarets

      To hell with the Eurasian Union, into the forest of such allies.

      If you do nothing, it will be even worse !!! Only the CU and Euroses will help restore the past.
      1. +5
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        If you do nothing, it will be even worse !!!

        Hello Sasha! You are right, there are a lot of people who want to do nothing, it’s more convenient ... Breaking down does not build, the soul does not hurt.
    3. sincman
      +6
      January 3 2013
      Our enemies are counting on this reaction! For this, new textbooks are being written! Why was the heart given to you? Maybe then to separate the wheat from the chaff and not fall into the nets placed by our "well-wishers". You need to feel with your heart and analyze with your mind on the basis of the knowledge about good and evil inherent in our souls at the subconscious level.
    4. +3
      January 3 2013
      This is not the first time I read your posts, and I cannot understand: why do you dislike the union republics so much? Well, you must admit that these very, in your opinion, "reptile" republics helped Russia a lot in their time.
      1. Nurker
        0
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Vodrak
        why don't you like union republics so much?


        In gratitude, all my comments were omitted)))
      2. -1
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Vodrak
        why don't you like union republics so much?

        Well, what kind of union republics are you? While someone feeds you, you and his allies.
        1. Nurker
          -5
          January 3 2013
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          Well, what kind of union republics are you? While someone feeds you, you and his allies.


          It turns out you say that you feed us and teach civilization? Strange, but we are all told that it is we who feed you.

          Question: "Who is right?" with specific arguments
          1. +5
            January 3 2013
            Nurker,

            What are you feeding us? Argument number one! I don’t see yours with us!

            And how many of yours are being fed? Argument Number Two! But this good in bulk!
            1. Nurker
              -4
              January 3 2013
              Quote: SergeySK
              And how many of yours are being fed? Argument Number Two! But this good in bulk!


              And how many of ours is who?
              1. +2
                January 3 2013
                Nurker,

                Abdikermov! Is that clear ????
                1. bukyak
                  -1
                  January 3 2013
                  SergeySK
                  even you all under one comb .....?!
                  1. 0
                    January 3 2013
                    bukyak,

                    And why the hell should I comb everyone in different ways? Did he ask for arguments? Got !
                    1. bukyak
                      +2
                      January 3 2013
                      I didn’t ask for anything, I’m Russian, I was born and live in Russia! .... but with your irresponsible statements, you can turn away from yourself those who want to live with us and integrate into our society! ..... this is not about guest workers namely about PEOPLE!
                      1. +1
                        January 3 2013
                        bukyak,

                        I already fixed it! He of course))))) Wrong!

                        And those who want to live with us already live here do not wait for mercy from "ELITE"!
                        Everything is already with citizenship!

                        With us, many who want to live and everything on their own terms are HISTORICAL, POLITICAL, ECONOMIC, and even hell knows what!

                        You won’t be in front of everyone! ! !

                        Azerbaijanis do not hesitate to write that they are friends of us Armenians must pass! Who else will forgive ???
                      2. bukyak
                        +1
                        January 3 2013
                        we are not talking about indispensable Russian citizenship .... Do you see what a person writes to you from Kazakhstan ?! moreover, he writes in pure RUSSIAN language ...... too, will we send it to huh? NO, we must take them under our wing. They live at home, but in a POLITICAL, ECONOMIC and MILITARY UNION with us !!! ..... THERE IS WHAT SPEECH IS ABOUT !!!
                      3. +2
                        January 3 2013
                        bukyak,

                        And I do not mind! Only if you ask for arguments do not be offended by them!

                        I have not described any real distant past!

                        And by the way Belarus can safely say that it feeds us! Its products on our shelves are rampant! At least in my city!

                        And I'm not offended even! ! !

                        He must be offended by his elites! The economy must be built and not arguments asked! If Belarusians have something to sell to us, they don’t ask for arguments or trunks with us!
                      4. bukyak
                        0
                        January 3 2013
                        You even made up your mind - arguments, arguments ..... neither of which I didn’t ask you ...... DO NOT OFFEND PEOPLE !!!
                      5. 0
                        January 3 2013
                        bukyak,

                        Che you struck up PEOPLE DO NOT OFFEND ??? They don’t take offense at the truth! He doesn’t want to be offended by direct answers, even if he doesn’t ask stupid questions!
                      6. bukyak
                        +1
                        January 3 2013
                        He asked you the right question! Kazakhs do not go to us, they live in KAZAKHSTAN!
                      7. +1
                        January 3 2013
                        bukyak,

                        On February 11, the Stratfor Agency published material on relations between Russia and the countries of Central Asia, which mentioned that approximately 10% of Kazakhstanis work abroad, mainly in Russia.

                        I can give a link!

                        And in the end, you’ll find statistics yourself, it’s not difficult, don’t break! ! !
                      8. bukyak
                        0
                        January 3 2013
                        Here you are an ulcer .... laughing well, as you know, I will not argue!
            2. bukyak
              +1
              January 3 2013
              No one feeds anyone! These slogans were imposed intentionally for separatism of the national republic !!!
      3. +5
        January 4 2013
        tell me why do we love for example Kazakhstan?
        for the fact that they lied and in every possible way continue to belittle the Russian contribution to the development of Kazakhstan? For the fact that the Russians saved the Kazakhs as a nation, and in return they can only whine about how the Russians colonized them? For the fact that the Russians in their native country of Kazakhstan turned out to be second-class people? For that matter, my friend, I’ll tell you a secret that in this life it’s always the way you present everything, and you present the Russians as your eternal oppressors. Why should we love and respect you ????
        1. Nurker
          -3
          January 4 2013
          Quote: Smoke
          tell me why do we love for example Kazakhstan? for the fact that they lied and in every possible way continue to belittle the Russian contribution to the development of Kazakhstan? For the fact that the Russians saved the Kazakhs as a nation, and in return they can only whine about how the Russians colonized them? For the fact that the Russians in their native country of Kazakhstan turned out to be second-class people? For that matter, my friend, I’ll tell you a secret that in this life it’s always the way you present everything, and you present the Russians as your eternal oppressors. Why should we love and respect you ????


          Aren't you ... afraid to cry again in your waistcoat? Yes, p ... we are building Russians on the gateway, drunk
          drunks, and they say thank you to us that they sent us home. By God, every day we are only doing this, it’s best that only we can get the Russians ... to live. Do not respect and do not love who forces you, your right
          1. +2
            January 4 2013
            Well, again ... as soon as simple questions begin to ask you, dumb trolling and avoiding the answer begin, and I have to answer you, I assure you of this.
          2. Ingvald_Bueny
            +4
            January 4 2013
            Quote: nurker
            Aren't you ... afraid to cry again in your waistcoat? Yes, p ... we are building Russians on the gateway, drunk
            drunks, and they say thank you to us that they sent us home. By God, every day we are only doing this, it’s best that only we can get the Russians ... to live. Do not respect and do not love who forces you, your right

            You have megalomania, and it’s called “chauvinism.” Apparently, in relation to Russians, you personally, drawing a conclusion from your comments, feel as if an inferiority complex called “nationalism.” You need to work on your thinking, be kinder to people of any nationality and they will reach out to you.
      4. His
        0
        January 5 2013
        What did the Russian-speaking population get kicked out for? For the built factories, roads, cities, for the upbringing of European culture?
  6. +1
    January 3 2013
    Well, as children, by God.
    However, the day is not long when the political elites will have to rewrite such nonsense.
    1. +2
      January 3 2013
      What is being pushed to children from childhood at school, so they will go around the world and it is unlikely that they will then be retrained.
      1. gribnik777
        +5
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Simon
        What is being pushed to children from childhood at school, so they will go around the world and it is unlikely that they will then be retrained.



        Elephant tortured
        Swear
        Having been stolen by a trunk
        Elephant to the ground
        Goodbye to Ukraine,
        Hey my first edge!
        Innocently young
        Elephant Dyingє!
        Gay! Gay!
  7. WW3
    WW3
    +3
    January 3 2013
    A common feature of the school books of the new nation states is the presentation of contacts with Russians and Russia as a source of problems and troubles for their ancestors.

    The old principle is to divide and conquer ....
    We lost the Cold War in 1991 and, naturally, the winner began to reformat the story for himself. So we have what we have, it is said, in particular, in the publication.

    Well, you shouldn’t sprinkle ashes on your head so much, integration processes are being revived and the amers are already worried .... the Clintonsha’s latest statement confirms this .... they now have problems themselves like burping from the Cold War with the USSR .... wink

  8. +3
    January 3 2013
    do the parents of these unfortunate students really not tell them the truth? after all, they have received a Soviet education. but the worst thing is that in our schools they also teach nonsense instead of history
    1. +2
      January 3 2013
      And what do the "unfortunate students" write ... - Try to go to the forum turan. If you don't vomit in 15 minutes, then you have a very strong body)))
    2. +4
      January 3 2013
      Quote: andrei332809
      are the parents of these poor students not telling the truth?

      And how old are these parents, there is one youth and under the USSR they were five years old. What to take hi
  9. alex popov
    +13
    January 3 2013
    Close "intellectually" borders for ALL "most ancient" ones. Until they pass a few specific exams, a tourist visa for 60 days instead of a work permit and a residence permit and "come on, dasvydania." The exam must include the following subjects: knowledge of Russian written and spoken at the level of at least 7-8 grades, the history of Russia (19-20 centuries in obligatory), the basics of knowledge of the Criminal Code and AK RF. We have enough cattle of our own, and the "educated" according to the current standard will understand the value of their new "knowledge". And everyone who has already entered is given a term within a year to pass this exam. Or "back to ancient history" ... Certain categories of "allies" understand only strength.
    1. +1
      January 3 2013
      right to the point, but the authorities will not go for it
    2. +3
      January 3 2013
      Yes, close the borders until they have learned all this, and whoever has not learned, let them remain in their ancient country and collect bananas, jumping on palm trees, instead of monkeys. And under the Union everything was built by these ancient nationalities, the Baltic was one of the best. Tashkent was restored after the earthquake by the entire Union; at present, a plane with flour and warm clothes would have been sent only.
      1. alex popov
        0
        January 7 2013
        It is possible not only to close the borders, but also to support the local producer of fruit and vegetables. Among other things, the closure of the borders will affect the flow of drugs. It has been said more than once that one heroin load in a truck justifies any dumping on imported fruits and vegetables. What's easier? Is there a “universal prohibitor” named Gennady O.?
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          January 10 2013
          And so small - fruits? You cease from the Asians it’s better to buy oil and gas, which you resell to Europe :))))))
          1. max-02215
            0
            January 10 2013
            And what, you. will you do with him then? What didn’t burn out to breathe? If it weren’t for the USSR, they would have run along the mangyshlak for camels .......
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              January 10 2013
              If it weren’t for the USSR, for the most part Russians would only run after cows at best.
              And hydrocarbons can easily be sold bypassing Russia - even to China, even to Europe.
  10. Skinny
    +11
    January 3 2013
    When the Russians left the CIS they were all happy about throwing stones at trains, they said they wouldn’t have to feed a drunken gluttonous brother. They would become free eh and heal! The fate of any empire is decay.
    Although in my opinion the Russians pulled out of the Middle Ages half the peoples of Eurasia. Schools, hospitals were rebuilt there, and electricity was supplied.
    Defended in World War 2. Maybe I'm wrong, I was not in all the CIS.
    1. +7
      January 3 2013
      As for Kyrgyzstan, I agree. Only now they managed to pull out of the Middle Ages (in the minds) only the northern part of the country. South as it was there, it remained. And when I left there, then the whole server was not so hot - ALL plants stood! Half were already stolen.
    2. Nurker
      -11
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Skinny
      When the Russians left the CIS, they all rejoiced at throwing stones at trains, saying they wouldn’t have to feed a drunken gluttonous brother. They will become free eh and heal! The fate of any empire is decay. Although in my opinion the Russians pulled out half of the peoples of Eurasia from the Middle Ages. They rebuilt schools and hospitals there, conducted electricity. They protected it in World War II. Maybe I'm wrong, I was not in all the CIS.


      According to your reasoning, one gets the impression that if the USSR existed before 2013, then there would be no computers, the Internet, mobile and foreign cars
      1. +4
        January 3 2013
        My aunt once lived with an uncle near the glorious city with the Kazakh name Semipalatinsk. They lived in a decent military town (even the school was not just average, but with in-depth study of English). Now in this school of sheep, the town is plundered and ravaged. And you say that Russia (USSR) pulled someone out of somewhere. Nothing of the kind - these are just illusions. The mentality of these peoples has not undergone any changes.
      2. +1
        January 4 2013
        All this would be, where to go, you would not have what to buy for. Look at Iraq, Afghanistan.
    3. Green 413-1685
      +8
      January 3 2013
      And not only. Before the Russians, epidemics of plague, halera, typhus were constantly raging there. The people received water from irrigation ditches along with cattle. So they built a sewage system for them, brought water. Every year there were sent from Med. academies Plague expeditions - vaccinated, carried out anti-epidemiological measures. How many of our doctors were then shot by the Basmachs, these descendants of "ancient civilizations" in dirty coats. Yes, you can endlessly enumerate, in fact the entire Wed. Az. pulled from the early Middle Ages into which they were hammered by the Mongols. And now these "heirs" are drawing us figwams.
    4. +5
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Skinny
      They said you don’t have to feed a drunken gluttonous brother.

      No matter how they get stuck from such "feeding, how they healed can be seen by the number of gaster and criminal faces in Russia
      1. +2
        January 3 2013
        It’s time for these Gaster to block the border for a long time, let the sheep graze in their houses, otherwise our guys can’t find work.
  11. 0
    January 3 2013
    From the news, we must probably conclude that the textbooks in the Russian Federation are the most correct, honest and do not carry nationalistic ideas
    (It is interesting, but it can be assumed that in addition to the nationalist, there is a national idea).

    It’s also the thought that when the USSR was formed, it never occurred to anyone to rewrite the old textbooks of the Russian empire, they were taught that way.

    He studied according to Soviet textbooks, he already had to buy grades 9-11 - but he doesn’t remember much.
    PS. I love Zadorny look.
    1. Ingvald_Bueny
      0
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Kars

      From the news, we must probably conclude that the textbooks in the Russian Federation are the most correct, honest and do not carry nationalistic ideas

      Do you mean that Russian textbooks carry “nationalist ideas?” If I misunderstood you, please explain.
    2. Nurker
      -6
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Kars
      PS. I love Zadorny look.


      Zadornov - big jester and clown
      1. +2
        January 3 2013
        But jesters were always with kings and kings, the only people who could tell the king or king the truth in their eyes and there was nothing to them for that.
    3. +4
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Kars
      It’s also the thought that when the Soviet Union was formed, no one would have thought of rewriting the old textbooks of the Russian Empire

      It was a sin to conceal, but it never occurred to anyone to copy friends into enemies and vice versa ...
      1. +3
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Tersky
        it was not necessary to rewrite friends as enemies and vice versa ...

        If I’m not mistaken, then all but the proletariat were rewritten as enemies. I’m too lazy to remember, and I didn’t really care about the perturbations of heroes and antiheroes depending on social origin and time period.
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        that Russian textbooks carry "nationalist ideas"?

        Is it in your textbooks that you are descended from ukrov and Russia is no longer the birthplace of elephants? - this is such a joke - but that Russian is no longer a nationality? And where is the difference between patriotism and nationalism?
  12. megatherion
    +9
    January 3 2013
    I wonder how millions of migrants work in a "hostile country" and are not afraid to come to us? The local authorities amuse their pride or something by printing such textbooks? Or are they printed in the American embassies of these countries?
  13. Ingvald_Bueny
    +1
    January 3 2013
    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the power and intellectual elites of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan and Georgia have shown that they and the Russian Federation have different development paths. What is their choice, some of them need the Euro-Economic Community as a single economic space and nothing more, with the aim of implementation of their economic programs. Will the benefit of this Russian Federation be a separate issue.
    1. Nurker
      -4
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
      Will the benefit of this Russian Federation be a separate issue.


      What other benefits will be
  14. Oidsoldier
    +11
    January 3 2013
    ... History is known to be written by the winners. We lost the Cold War in 1991 and, naturally, the winner began reformatting the story for himself. Here we have what we have, said, in particular, in the publication.The history in the independent powers is written not by the victors, but by petty thieves, because the elites in these countries did not defeat anyone, but came to the battlefield and began to engage in looting. They really don't need it.
    1. Zybrov
      +9
      January 3 2013
      I don’t know how YOU and WE didn’t lose anything, we were betrayed, and that’s it, we all survived in the 90s, we studied, sat on potatoes and sauerkraut, But we didn’t dump them over the hill like some, as I said to von Clausewitz, defeat Russians always come back ........
      1. +3
        January 3 2013
        With the defeat, the Russians always return ........

        with a club and from the whole wide Slavic soul, the kherachat of the adversaries to the right and left.
  15. +11
    January 3 2013
    Something these high-born friendly crowds bring to Russia to earn money, except for the Baltic states, the Germans were always slaves. And NOBODY didn’t build a paradise for themselves, and most of those who lived under the Union remember that time with longing. Young generations have nothing to compare with, and those in power make a fool of their heads in order to preserve their piece of the pie, which was grabbed after the partition.
  16. +1
    January 3 2013
    History is a way of searching and comprehending the truth only for a limited circle. For society and politicians, history is the main instrument of work and manipulation of identity - both one's own and another's.
    Is Russian post-Soviet history not sick of the same ????
    Take, for example, the derogation and explicit falsification of the Soviet period of history.
    New "historians" build new chronology. We agreed that the territory of Egypt is nothing more than a large cemetery of Russian princes and other worthy people.
    The new elites do not need history as a science, they need a prostitute serving momentary interests.
  17. +5
    January 3 2013
    You just need to return these highly cultural representatives of the most ancient peoples to their homeland, otherwise they are humiliated here and build buildings for the invaders, sweep the streets, trade in markets, earn money from the oppressors and colonialists, and they support families with this money. Poor things, I feel sorry for them.
    In general, all this is from the category "If there is no water in the tap, the Jews drank water" only the Jews are replaced by Russians.
  18. escobar
    +9
    January 3 2013
    I was looking at the transfer of the UT-1 the other day. So there, our grief, self-taught historians even reached the point that all the Roman gods, and in particular Zeus, would be remembered on Crimean land earlier than in the Roman Empire itself. And that the Great Rome borrowed culture, art from Ukraine in fact. And the faces are so serious, but dibilovatye. Sick people ... in the madhouse summons.
  19. -24
    January 3 2013
    Yeah, it was funny for my parents to read Soviet books that we were brothers with Armenians, and Stepan Shaumyan, an Armenian, promoted the ideas of communism with the desire of the Azerbaijani people. This is why the Soviet and Russian books are a standard of justice, and our books are a lie. only ours are also Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Tajiks, Slavs, Ukrainians, Moldovans. They all lie completely. And note the correct books only from Belarusians (these are the same Russians themselves, just as Lukashenko said with a quality mark) and Armenia which itself It owes its existence to the Russian Federation and for at least 49 years the Russian Federation has committed itself to protecting the entire air and land space of Armenia around the entire perimeter, although they believe Lenin betrayed them in collusion with Ataturk, but they will not officially write this when they are totally dependent on the Russian Federation and lack of souls.
    1. Ingvald_Bueny
      +8
      January 3 2013
      So you think that Russia is "the root of all ills"? But let many of your compatriots live in Russia, and for some reason they do not plan to leave for their homeland in Azerbaijan, it means that they are not so bad with us, especially since they have a stable income here.
      1. -6
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        So you think that Russia is "the root of all ills"?

        Not all. Only the Armenian, which is still supported. Do not be, with all hands for the Russian Federation. On the other hand, our books do not write a complete lie. What is Azerbaijan voluntarily part of the Russian Federation? 2 wars between Russia and Persia for Azerbaijan we are not should write? force entry into the Soviet Union should we be silent? January 20, when Soviet tanks crushed civilians, should we say that this wasn’t? Yes, in any books there are distortions, but there are indisputable facts.

        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        But let many of your compatriots live in Russia, and for some reason they do not plan to go to their homeland in Azerbaijan, it means that they are not so bad with us, especially since they have a stable income here.


        many are already citizens of Russia, including 90 percent of my relatives. but how it is connected with books. they write what was. they do not write that it is bad in Russia.
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +4
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Yeraz
          Not all. Only the Armenian, which is still supported. Do not be, with all hands for the Russian Federation. On the other hand, our books do not write a complete lie. What is Azerbaijan voluntarily part of the Russian Federation? 2 wars between Russia and Persia for Azerbaijan we are not should write? force entry into the Soviet Union should we be silent? January 20, when Soviet tanks crushed civilians, should we say that this wasn’t? Yes, in any books there are distortions, but there are indisputable facts.

          Azerbaijan has never been part of the Russian Federation.
          The Russian Empire fought not for the Baku region with Persia, but for its independence, since the access of Persia to the North Caucasus and the Black Sea region represented a center of instability for the Russian Empire. It is unlikely that Azerbaijanis in the Persian Empire would be better than in the Russian, where they had the status of free citizens and no one encroached on their property. The Persians had a special conversation with enslaved peoples at that time.
          Azerbaijan was a part of the USSR within the framework of the ZSFSR; no one forcibly drove it there.
          In the Karabakh conflict during the late USSR, the Soviet Army and the Government of the USSR sided with the Azerbaijan SSR against the Armenian "separatists". And the bulk of Soviet weapons after the self-dissolution of the Soviet Union in the Transcaucasus went to the Azerbaijani military, not the Armenian.

          Quote: Yeraz
          many are already citizens of Russia, including 90 percent of my relatives. but how it is connected with books. they write what was. they do not write that it is bad in Russia.

          It just demonstrates the attitude of the official policy of Azerbaijan towards Russia and the Russian People. After all, the Azerbaijani authorities should understand that friendly relations cannot be established with such an attitude.
          1. -5
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Azerbaijan has never been part of the Russian Federation.

            I know. For us there is no difference it was called the Russian Empire before, then the USSR, the essence did not change.

            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            The Russian Empire fought not for the Baku region with Persia, but for its independence

            Yeah, I know these tales were also taught to me at a school in St. Petersburg. The teacher told me when Peter 1’s campaign was due to the fact that they wanted to save us from the TURKS !!! it’s necessary to freeze this. Well, if it would be before the 16th century. The war with the Turks was in the 16th century. Therefore, your books also treat you well.
            The difference is that you do not accept the alternative, look for enemies everywhere. We have a lot of information in the book about the wars with the Turks about those cruelties and the same. But we are not offended by each other, although we are much closer to each other. But you are immediately offended.
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Azerbaijan was a part of the USSR within the framework of the ZSFSR; no one forcibly drove it there.


            yeah, as a joke they created ADRs for 1 year, and then they dissolved it and Muslim Azerbaijan chose atheistic communism, and this is why the ideologists turned out to be either Armenians or Jews and Azerbaijanis on their fingers.

            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            In the Karabakh conflict during the late USSR, the Soviet Army and the Government of the USSR sided with the Azerbaijan SSR against the Armenian "separatists". And the bulk of Soviet weapons after the self-dissolution of the Soviet Union in the Transcaucasus went to the Azerbaijani military, not the Armenian.


            In the beginning there was a period, but then comprehensive assistance to the Armenians. And do not say the opposite. We also remembered the threats of Grachev very well.

            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            It just demonstrates the attitude of the official policy of Azerbaijan towards Russia and the Russian People. After all, the Azerbaijani authorities should understand that friendly relations cannot be established with such an attitude.


            Yes, with the support that you give the Armenians the attitude of the authorities towards you is ideal !!! Give power to the people, this attitude would be at zero or sharply negative. The Russian Federation, if you would at least keep neutrality in the Karabakh conflict, would be friendship, but you support our enemy Are you offended by us ?? How do you imagine this ??
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +4
              January 3 2013
              So you say that Russia is your enemy? At the same time, you yourself live in the Russian Federation, it seems that you studied at the expense of the Russian budget and work in Russia, thereby the Russian Federation provided you. Do you know what it's called?
              P / S The last war of the Russian Empire with the Ottoman Empire was at the beginning of the XNUMXth century as part of the WWII (one of the events of that time was the massive genocide of Armenians organized by the Port authorities). Before that, there were at least two wars between them in the XNUMXth century. They wanted to save the Azerbaijanis not from the Turks, but from the Persians, who claimed all of Transcaucasia. So your teacher from St. Petersburg was right in his own way.
            2. SASCHAmIXEEW
              0
              January 4 2013
              Firstly, they carry water to those who are offended, secondly, do not answer for all your people, and even if the Russian people are offended, they will throw all the Azeris out of RUSSIA and go sell yourself, fewer people have more oxygen, for too long you have the patience of the Russians, do not be dashing while quiet! Centuries lived without you and will continue to live! And I remember Sumgait!
    2. Yarbay
      -7
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Yeraz
      Well, only ours are still Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Tajiks, Slavs, Ukrainians, Moldovans. They all lie.

      The fact is that the article was written by the Armenian and on the Regnum, the quoted quotes from textbooks in Azerbaijan are mostly lies or taken out of context !!
      In Armenia itself, all Russian schools are closed and the Russian language is not taught!
      Moreover, in the historical books it is stated that almost Adam was an Armenian!
      Article minus big!
      It has no logical, no sociological or any other value!
      As for Shaumyan, after the exhumation of 26 Baku commissars and their reburial, his body and the body of the Amiryan brothers were not buried!
      The coffins were empty !!
      Shaumyan apparently lived in India and died there too !!
      There are recollections of Rashid Beybutov about showing him in the 80s the grave of Shaumyan in India, which he videotaped and handed over to Gorbachev in the late 80s, after which he was afraid for his life, apparently not in vain, did not live long after that!
      1. -5
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Yarbay
        The fact is that the article was written by the Armenian and on the Regnum, the quoted quotes from textbooks in Azerbaijan are mostly lies or taken out of context !!

        this is understandable. But people in a stranger's eye see a mote, but they don’t notice the logs. I studied in Russia and the whole Russian history consists that Russia did not capture, it saved and brought good. And people discuss zombie and falsification from other countries and they condemn unjustifiably, but they don’t want to notice their falsifications. Why are there more Abkhazians in Turkey than in Abkhazia itself? Why about a million North Caucasians in Turkey. Why has the Caucasus not been subordinate to Russia for 200 years and still have problems with this region ?? Maybe because they consider what captured them ??
        And this Soviet Union was idealized to the limit, it was a typical empire disguised as a state of equals. Everyone was drafted into the army, but for some reason Muslims always turned up in baht. Thank Heydar Aliyev ensured that some number of Azerbaijanis went through the war in Afghanistan otherwise in Karabakh there would not be that scanty number of specialists who know military affairs.
        1. Yarbay
          -5
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Yeraz
          I studied in Russia and the whole Russian history consists that Russia did not capture, it saved and brought good

          This is understandable !!
          So everywhere in English textbooks they write exactly the same about their conquests!
          It was just a little condemned during the USSR, but it was also written about
          Quote: Yeraz
          Everyone was drafted into the army, but for some reason Muslims found themselves in the ranks of baht always.
          Well, not always, but in percentage terms a little more!
          My close relatives were in the air defense, in the tank troops and motorized rifle units! In principle, there is a great deal of truth in your words!
          Quote: Yeraz
          Fortunately, Heydar Aliyev ensured that in Afghanistan a certain number of Azerbaijanis went through the war, otherwise in Karabakh there would not be that scanty number of specialists who know military affairs.

          I agree that the Nakhchivan school was created at that time, almost all of the current generals were cadets there!
          1. Misantrop
            +5
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Yarbay
            So everywhere in English textbooks they write exactly the same about their conquests!
            The paper will endure. That's just to find now in England at least one English is not realistic. They are not, destroyed. And in Prussia, the Prussians remained, at least one? From the Indians of North America, now there are only miserable remnants, it is good if out of hundreds of tribes, representatives of at least several of the largest remain. Is the same picture in Russia, or is it still different?
        2. Misantrop
          +11
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Yeraz
          Why did the Caucasus not submit to Russia for 200 years and still have problems with this region ?? Maybe because they believe that they were captured ??

          That’s not why. They were simply offended to the depths of their souls - they were forbidden to do traditional things: go on raids and sell slaves. Terrible tyranny, right?
          Quote: Yeraz
          Everyone was drafted into the army, but for some reason Muslims found themselves in the ranks of baht always.

          And we do not take into account the problems with mastering not the simplest technique? With the reading and memorization of instructions, duties according to combat schedules, etc. I had one guy from the village. Kokpekty Kokpekty area. For three years of service in the crew he managed to learn ... his book "Battle number". I learned it by heart, but ... I could not explain what exactly is written on these pages. It is also fortunate that at that time (towards the end of his service) we only took the ship from the plant, because we would leave it alone on watch for the maintenance of nuclear installations ... wassat The army is not a primary school, the fleet with aviation is even more so. Competent specialists everywhere demanded, regardless of nationality (we have the head of the radio engineering service by nationality was Marie), but there’s no one and then no one to train the sailor in reading and writing
          1. -6
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Misantrop
            That’s not why. They were simply offended to the depths of their souls - they were forbidden to do traditional things: go on raids and sell slaves. Terrible tyranny, right?

            Yes, this is a favorite excuse, but you would look prettier and more dignified if you just committed punitive operations, rather than capture, and then tried for centuries to hold back. 2-3 brutal punitive operations with genocide if they raided (which they don’t agree with, okay) and all the problem is solved.
            Quote: Misantrop
            Do we not take into account the problems with mastering not the simplest technology?

            No, we do not take into account.
            1 my uncle, professor, doctor of sciences, doctor, but he ended up in the construction battalion, my aunt’s husband graduated from mathematics with honors from the Moscow State University and also in the construction battalion, cousin European champion is already from independent Azerbaijan and also in the construction battalion. All the rest are strong guys who also grew up in the mountains ( Incidentally, Auger educated) stronger than other inhabitants of the plains, and even more so the inhabitants of cities, all the same in construction battalions.
            That Tsarist Russia did not appeal to them en masse, and they were very strong: the example of the Wild Division, that the Union, but then they were supposedly equal, therefore they imitated the bulk of the construction battalion, a small part in some units.
            1. +11
              January 3 2013
              Yeraz,
              Answer.
              1Your uncles, when called up, were not yet doctors of sciences and mathematicians, IMHO the construction battalion benefited them
              2Krepey guys, just needed in the construction battalion
              3The mentality of the mountaineers is such that even the doctors of the sciences stick out the ears of abrek laughing laughing laughing
              In short, how many wolves do not feed, donkey still x ... thicker
            2. Misantrop
              +4
              January 3 2013
              Quote: Yeraz
              you would look prettier and more worthy if you just performed punitive operations

              Yeah, everybody always admires punishers, that’s right. wink The United States is doing just that now. Yugoslavia was smashed into the trash - and not captured. Libya - similarly. And, most importantly, in Libya, in Kosovo - quiet and smooth, no bandits, right?
            3. Ingvald_Bueny
              +7
              January 3 2013
              Quote: Yeraz
              1 my uncle, professor, doctor of sciences, doctor, but he ended up in the construction battalion, my aunt’s husband graduated from mathematics with honors from the Moscow State University and also in the construction battalion, cousin European champion is already from independent Azerbaijan and also in the construction battalion. All the rest are strong guys who also grew up in the mountains ( Incidentally, Auger educated) stronger than other inhabitants of the plains, and even more so the inhabitants of cities, all the same in construction battalions.
              That Tsarist Russia did not appeal to them en masse, and they were very strong: the example of the Wild Division, that the Union, but then they were supposedly equal, therefore they imitated the bulk of the construction battalion, a small part in some units.

              How did your uncle get into the construction battalion? all the military departments were finished, and after high school they were immediately written off to the reserve. Your aunt’s husband wouldn’t have been taken to the building battalion with the Physics and Mathematics Department of Moscow State University, this is a guaranteed referral to the Strategic Missile Forces or Air Defense officer, regardless of nationality. Why your brother in independent Azerbaijan served in the construction battalion, this is clearly not a question for the Russian Federation.
              The fact that there were strong guys in the mountains is good, and no one argues with this, but after all, strong guys are also needed in engineering units, what do you want there citizens of any nationalities serve.
              The Wild Division is a military formation made up of Circassian highlanders; they really showed themselves well. Only here Azerbaijanis have nothing to do with the Circassians.
              P / S On the Plains, strong guys live like in cities, otherwise Russia would not have been without them.
              1. Yarbay
                -6
                January 4 2013
                Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                The Wild Division is a military formation made up of Circassian highlanders; they really showed themselves well. Only here Azerbaijanis have nothing to do with the Circassians.

                You are deeply mistaken!
                Two so-called Tatar regiments from the Wild Division were formed in Azerbaijan and consisted entirely of Azerbaijanis!
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +2
                  January 4 2013
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  You are deeply mistaken!
                  Two so-called Tatar regiments from the Wild Division were formed in Azerbaijan and consisted entirely of Azerbaijanis!

                  People tend to make mistakes, such is the nature of human thinking.
                  The 2nd brigade of the Caucasian native division had one Tatar regiment and one Chechen regiment. Moreover, the Tatar and the Azerbaijani are not the same thing. Correct if I am mistaken.
                  1. Yarbay
                    0
                    January 4 2013
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    The XNUMXst brigade of the Caucasian native division had one Tatar regiment and one Chechen regiment. Moreover, the Tatar and the Azerbaijani are not the same thing. Correct if I am mistaken.

                    Dear in vain, you minusanuli me!
                    The fact is that at that time Azerbaijanis were called Tatars in the Russian Empire !! The regiment was formed in the city of Ganja and completely consisted of Azerbaijanis called Tatars !!
                    Yours!
                    1. Ingvald_Bueny
                      +1
                      January 4 2013
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      Dear in vain, you minusanuli me!
                      The fact is that at that time Azerbaijanis were called Tatars in the Russian Empire !! The regiment was formed in the city of Ganja and completely consisted of Azerbaijanis called Tatars !!
                      Yours!

                      You are mistaken, I did not minus you. But even if I put you a minus (which I did not do) it is my right. And it does not concern the topic of discussion.
                      As regards the history of the Kavkaz division, I thank you for explaining the participation of your people in its composition. However, it was only one regiment, so it makes no sense to say that the division consisted entirely of Azerbaijanis. It was mainly made up of Circassians, i.e. peoples of the North Caucasus.
                      1. Yarbay
                        -1
                        January 5 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        However, it was only one regiment, so it makes no sense to say that the division was completely composed of Azerbaijanis

                        It was two regiments!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        It was mainly made up of Circassians, i.e. peoples of the North Caucasus.
                        Almost half were my compatriots!
                      2. Ingvald_Bueny
                        0
                        January 5 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        However, it was only one regiment, so it makes no sense to say that the division was completely composed of Azerbaijanis
                        It was two regiments!


                        In accordance with the order of Emperor Nicholas II on the creation of the Caucasian native cavalry division of August 23, 1914, the division was composed of three brigades of six Caucasian native horse regiments (each in 4 squadrons). The division included the following military units:
                        The 1st brigade consisted of the Kabardian cavalry regiment (consisting of Kabardins and Balkars) and the 2nd Dagestan cavalry regiment (consisting of Dagestanis).
                        The 2nd brigade consisted of the Tatar cavalry regiment (consisting of Azerbaijanis) and the Chechen equestrian regiment (consisting of Chechens).
                        The 3rd brigade consisted of the Circassian horse regiment (consisting of Circassians and Karachais) and the Ingush horse regiment (consisting of Ingush).
                        Ossetian foot brigade and the 8th Don Cossack artillery division were also given divisions.
                        Commanders of the Caucasian Native Division:
                        Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich - commander of the Caucasian native cavalry division at the front in Galicia during the First World War.
                        Prince Bagration, Dmitry Petrovich, Major General, from July 12, 1916, Lieutenant General. The division commander from February 20, 1916 to April 15, 1917 and from June 30 to August 27, 1917. From August 28 to September 2, 1917, the commander of the Caucasian native cavalry corps.
                        Polovtsov, Pyotr Aleksandrovich, lieutenant general - on August 23, 1914 he was appointed commander of the Tatar equestrian regiment of the Caucasian native equestrian division. Since February 25, 1916, the chief of staff of the Caucasian native equestrian division. On September 2, 1917 he was appointed commander of the Caucasian native horse corps.
                        Prince Gagarin, Alexander Vasilievich, Major General, commanded the division on 28.08. - 02.09.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX.
                        Prince (Persian) Feyzulla Mirza Kajar, Major General, commanded the 1st Caucasian Indigenous Equestrian Division from 30.09.1917/XNUMX/XNUMX.
                        By order of August 21, 1917, the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of Infantry L. G. Kornilov, the Caucasian Indigenous Horse Division was reorganized into the Caucasian Indigenous Horse Corps. [3] For this purpose, the Dagestan and two Ossetian horse regiments were transferred to the division. After formation, the corps was to be sent to the Caucasus at the disposal of the commander of the Caucasian army. However, on September 2, in connection with the “Kornilov case”, by order of the Provisional Government, the commander of the Caucasian native cavalry corps, Lieutenant General Prince Bagration and the commander of the 1st Caucasian native cavalry division, Major General Prince Gagarin, were relieved of their posts. On the same day, by order of the Provisional Government, General P. A. Polovtsev was appointed commander of the Caucasian native cavalry corps. Major General Prince Feyzulla Mirza Kajar was appointed the head of the 1st Caucasian native cavalry division. The head of the 2nd Caucasian native cavalry division was Lieutenant General I.Z. Khoranov. [4] General Polovtsev managed to get from Kerensky that the previously adopted order to send the corps to the Caucasus was executed.
                        In late September - early October 1917, units and subunits of the corps were transferred to the Caucasus. The headquarters of the corps was in Vladikavkaz, and the headquarters of the 1st Caucasian native cavalry division in Pyatigorsk. By January 1918, the Caucasian native cavalry corps ceased to exist ...
            4. Yarbay
              +2
              January 3 2013
              Quote: Yeraz
              ended up in the construction battalion

              It can be seen at that time there was an order that so many should serve there!
              Because I remember many Kazakhs served in the BB, in the convoy units !!
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                0
                January 5 2013
                Quote: Yarbay
                Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                It was mainly made up of Circassians, i.e. peoples of the North Caucasus. Almost half were my compatriots!

                I agree with you, at that time our common fatherland was called the Russian Empire.

            5. Alexander 1958
              +12
              January 3 2013
              Good afternoon!
              I want to add something to your criticism of RI and the USSR.
              You forgot to scold the Russians and the Soviets for the land on which industrial enterprises were built, which accounted for 80% of the oil equipment in the USSR. Of course, this is bad! There used to be bare earth. and then the Russian invaders came and built a devil-that .. Don’t have a place to walk!
              Alexander 1958
              1. Misantrop
                +10
                January 4 2013
                Alexander, and still forgot. These vile invaders also forced them to study. So I would not know sheep grazing in the fresh air for up to 120 years and grief, but here breathe dust over books. And from this, they say, thoughts start in the head that gnaw through the brain gyrus wassat
              2. Yarbay
                -2
                January 4 2013
                Quote: Alexander 1958
                You forgot to scold the Russians and the Soviets for the land on which industrial enterprises were built, which accounted for 80% of the oil equipment in the USSR.

                Yes, no one scolds, especially since it was made with money from the sale of our own oil !!!
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +3
                  January 4 2013
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Yes, no one scolds, especially since it was made with money from the sale of our own oil !!!

                  Dear oil, it was not yours, but the entire Soviet People. Oil production and refining of oil products in the Baku region began in the Russian Empire, with the money of Russian industrialists, for example Alfred Nobil, and also with the money of the Russian Crown, oil producers were mainly from the internal regions of the Empire. Then, in the USSR, with the money of the Soviet treasury, it was continued in the 20-50s (with the opening of mines in the Siberian part of the RSFSR, it was reduced), but the percentage of its implementation immediately began to go to the budget of the Azerbaijan SSR, by decision of the Center of the Soviet Union.
                  You say "ours", but the same Baku was rebuilt in the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union, but Russia now does not claim to the Baku region, and even in 1991 recognized the independence of the Azerbaijan SSR. Soviet weapons, although it could bring all this to the inner territory of the RSFSR.
                  So why do you call the Russians "occupiers" and "invaders"? This is not friendly. Or maybe you were never our friends?
                  1. Yarbay
                    -2
                    January 4 2013
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Dear oil, it was not yours, but the entire Soviet People. Oil production and refining of oil products in the Baku region began in the Russian Empire, with the money of Russian industrialists, for example Alfred Nobil, and also with the money of the Russian Crown, oil producers were mainly from the internal regions of the Empire.

                    Dear again mistaken !!
                    The oil was ours and the refining started with the money of the Azerbaijani industrialists too !! Asadullaevs, Tagiyevs, Nagiyevs Mukhtarov, etc. were the main owners of oil fields !!
                    These are your thoughts!
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    So why do you call the Russians "occupiers" and "invaders"?

                    Before the USSR, Russia was occupied, it was not offensive for you! In principle, when the USSR was created, agreements were violated and hundreds of people of officers and intelligentsia were shot!
                    In the 90th year, peaceful people were killed, but despite this, in 91 the majority supported the USSR, but it was Russia that did not want this, because Yeltsin really wanted to become president !!
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    This is not friendly.

                    And what have you done in a friendly way and why are you now standing in a wronged position?
                    And when were you friends to us ??
                    The politicians of Rosiii always acted in the interests of themselves personally !! Only in the USSR before Gorbachev was normal leadership !!
                    It's my opinion!!

                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    She closed her eyes to the expulsion of Russians from Azerbaijan,

                    This is your speculation !!!
                    1. Ingvald_Bueny
                      +2
                      January 4 2013
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      Dear again mistaken !!
                      The oil was ours and the refining started with the money of the Azerbaijani industrialists too !! Asadullaevs, Tagiyevs, Nagiyevs Mukhtarov, etc. were the main owners of oil fields !!
                      These are your thoughts!

                      That is, the Russian "occupiers" allowed local industrialists to extract oil in their "colony"? Paradox. It's strange for the invaders. In British India, all industry was in the hands of the British Crown.
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      Before the USSR, Russia was occupied, it was not offensive for you! In principle, when the USSR was created, agreements were violated and hundreds of people of officers and intelligentsia were shot!
                      In the 90th year, peaceful people were killed, but despite this, in 91 the majority supported the USSR, but it was Russia that did not want this, because Yeltsin really wanted to become president !!

                      These strange Russians are "occupiers". They allowed the "enslaved" Azerbaijanis to enter their universities, subsidized the Baku region, and then the Azerbaijan SSR. Russian "exploiters" built infrastructure in Azerbaijan, equated "enslaved" in rights with "enslavers".
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      And what have you done in a friendly way and why are you now standing in a wronged position?
                      And when were you friends to us ??
                      The politicians of Rosiii always acted in the interests of themselves personally !! Only in the USSR before Gorbachev was normal leadership !!
                      It's my opinion!!

                      What did the RSFSR do to you in a friendly way? The Russian Federation recognized the independence of your country. Is this not enough? You were protected from the genocide by the Persians. And is this not enough? You did not answer for the Russian genocide in Baku in 1991. What did they do to your compatriot, why did they expel them?
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      This is your speculation !!!

                      According to the report of the chairman of the Russian community of Azerbaijan, Mikhail Zabelin, for the year 2004 about 168 thousand Russians remained in the country, while as of January 1979, 476, about 22 thousand citizens of Russian nationality lived in Azerbaijan, in 70 regions of the republic there were about 1989 Russian settlements and settlements. In 392, 1999 thousand Russians lived in Azerbaijan (not counting other Russian-speakers), in 176 - XNUMX thousand ...
                      However, for some reason, the number of Azerbaijanis in the Russian Federation has only increased. So you yourself must offer the Russians friendship and seek it. Perhaps they will forgive the evil that caused them.
                      1. Yarbay
                        -2
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        ny.This is not enough? You were protected from the genocide by the Persians.

                        But they helped the Armenians in 1905 and on March 31, 1918 to commit genocide over us !! They overpowered Armenians in our territories and constantly provoked them to perform and helped them !! For this, should we be thankful to your politicians ??
                        20 million Azerbaijanis live in Persia and no genocide happened !!

                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        So you yourself must offer the Russians friendship and seek it.

                        Why on earth do you have megalomania, and not imperial thinking, to which I respect!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Perhaps they will forgive the evil that caused them.

                        So far, EVIL has been towards my people by the political leaders of your country !!
                        And if they apologize, maybe we will forgive !!
                      2. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +2
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        But they helped the Armenians in 1905 and on March 31, 1918 to commit genocide over us !! They overpowered Armenians in our territories and constantly provoked them to perform and helped them !! For this, should we be thankful to your politicians ??
                        20 million Azerbaijanis live in Persia and no genocide happened !!

                        You can read more on this.
                        Maybe because Persia has been a vassal of the Russian Empire since the beginning of the 18th century, that's why it didn't happen? For example, the Armenians in Turkey were unlucky; at the beginning of the XNUMXth century, during WWI, they were genocidal by the "brilliant" Ottomans.
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Why on earth do you have megalomania, and not imperial thinking, to which I respect!

                        Dear, you are not my psychiatrist to talk about my mania. As for imperial thinking, what does it have to do with it?
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        So far, EVIL has been towards my people by the political leaders of your country !!
                        And if they apologize, maybe we will forgive !!

                        Write about it officially to our polit. leadership.
                  2. Beck
                    -1
                    January 5 2013
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Dear oil, it was not yours, but the entire Soviet People.


                    Exactly. The essence of cheers-patriotism. Oil means not Azerbaijani, but the entire Soviet people. But how, to build something in a republic, for the needs of the entire USSR, so only the Russian people built. And all the other peoples of the USSR simply looked present.

                    Bread on the virgin lands is the property of the entire Soviet people and with this I completely agree. AND elevation virgin lands, so this is only the Russian people. And with this I strongly disagree. As if there were no Ukrainians, Belorussians, Tatars, Kazakh peoples and Kazakhs among the virgin lands.

                    Sokolovo-Sarbaiskoye iron ore deposit, then only Russians built, and who consumed it? Only Kazakhs or what? Yes, all this ore went to Chelyabinsk metallurgical plants. By cheers-patriotic to the Russian plants went.
                    1. Ingvald_Bueny
                      +2
                      January 5 2013
                      Quote: Beck
                      Exactly. The essence of cheers-patriotism. Oil means not Azerbaijani, but the entire Soviet people. But how, to build something in a republic, for the needs of the entire USSR, so only the Russian people built. And all the other peoples of the USSR simply looked present.

                      Bread on the virgin lands is the property of the entire Soviet people and with this I completely agree. And the virgin land raising is only the Russian people. And with this I strongly disagree. As if there were no Ukrainians, Belorussians, Tatars, Kazakh peoples and Kazakhs among the virgin lands.

                      Sokolovo-Sarbaiskoye iron ore deposit, then only Russians built, and who consumed it? Only Kazakhs or what? Yes, all this ore went to Chelyabinsk metallurgical plants. By cheers-patriotic to the Russian plants went.

                      I wrote the whole Soviet people, the rest you have come up with. Or don’t you know that there was such a supranational community? If not, it’s your problem, ask the older generation about it, if they didn’t tell you about it at school.
                2. Alexander 1958
                  +1
                  January 7 2013
                  For yarbay

                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Yes, no one scolds, especially since it was made with money from the sale of our own oil

                  Good afternoon! Somehow not convincing ... The Baku oil fields worked before the revolution, and I did not hear something. that in tsarist times it was just as good to live on the territory of modern Azerbaijan as in Soviet times. And oil was "yours" just like the Russian oil produced in Russia after perestroika, when it was pumped for free from the Russian subsoil and Russia still remained and owed it. Moreover, the money for oil floated to the Rothschilds, and not to the Azerbaijanis who produced it. Although, if you are dearer than the Rothschilds ...,
                  Alexander 1958
            6. +3
              January 4 2013
              Quote: Yeraz
              European cousin is already from independent Azerbaijan and also in the construction battalion.

              This is what side to Russia?
        3. Ingvald_Bueny
          +7
          January 3 2013
          Kindly answer how many Russians live in Azerbaijan after the dissolution of the USSR?
          1. Yarbay
            -8
            January 4 2013
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Kindly answer how many Russians live in Azerbaijan after the dissolution of the USSR?

            Almost as much as during the USSR !!
            Not much less!
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              0
              January 4 2013
              Quote: Yarbay
              Almost as much as during the USSR !!
              Not much less!

              The question was not for you, but for your compatriot. More precisely, you can give a number (number).
            2. Ingvald_Bueny
              +2
              January 4 2013
              Quote: Yarbay
              Almost as much as during the USSR !!
              Not much less!


              The question was not for you, but for your compatriot who lives in Russia and enjoys its benefits, and instead of respect, lets put it mildly to say unfriendly attacks in her direction.
              More precisely, you can give a number (digit).
              1. Yarbay
                +1
                January 4 2013
                Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                who lives in Russia and enjoys its benefits, and instead of respect, lets put it mildly unfriendly attacks in her direction.

                What attacks do I not understand ??
                He wrote that Russian imeria was invasive and caused pain and suffering to many peoples, and for some, complete destruction is a fact and there is no escape from it !!
                What are you offended as children and minus !!
                And he writes correctly, they say they saved people like others from others — it's ridiculous !!
                Yes, imperial politics was predatory, but there was some progress as a result of the politics of those times !!
                You know, some of you have such an attitude that like all nations should blogot you before the end of centuries for winning them and doing everyone a favor !! If I were a Russian I would be a supporter of the empire, that's fine !! But you don’t have to do anyone a favor and tell tales about the human face of the Russian empire !!
                He not only takes advantage of his benefits, but also pays taxes, boosts the economy and creates jobs!
                Do not confuse respect with worship and groveling!
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +1
                  January 4 2013
                  Quote: Yarbay

                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  who lives in Russia and enjoys its benefits, and instead of respect, lets put it mildly unfriendly attacks in her direction.
                  What attacks do I not understand ??
                  He wrote that Russian imeria was invasive and caused pain and suffering to many peoples, and for some, complete destruction is a fact and there is no escape from it !!
                  What are you offended as children and minus !!
                  And he writes correctly, they say they saved people like others from others — it's ridiculous !!
                  Yes, imperial politics was predatory, but there was some progress as a result of the politics of those times !!
                  You know, some of you have such an attitude that like all nations should blogot you before the end of centuries for winning them and doing everyone a favor !! If I were a Russian I would be a supporter of the empire, that's fine !! But you don’t have to do anyone a favor and tell tales about the human face of the Russian empire !!
                  He not only takes advantage of his benefits, but also pays taxes, boosts the economy and creates jobs!
                  Do not confuse respect with worship and groveling!


                  Dear interlocutor, if someone does not like the Russian Federation, let him act like Gerard Depardieu. No one will blame him for this.
                  Kindly answer how many Russians live in Azerbaijan after the collapse of the USSR and in what areas, if it does not bother you.
                  1. Yarbay
                    0
                    January 4 2013
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Dear interlocutor, if someone does not like the Russian Federation, let him act like Gerard Depardieu. No one will blame him for this.

                    My dear man !!
                    What does it mean that someone does not like the Russian Federation ??
                    Whoever doesn’t like those probably do not live, there’s a conversation about historical events !!
                    Why get in the pose of the offended !!? I do not like the politician of Russia, but this does not mean that I do not like Russia and the Russian people !! Do not confuse the concept!
                    Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                    Kindly answer how many Russians live in Azerbaijan after the collapse of the USSR and in what areas, if it does not bother you.

                    How many Russians I don’t know, but there are a lot of Russians, in Baku, in Sumgait, in the Lankaran district, in the Ismaili district, in Shemakhi, in Ganja, etc., etc. !!
                    1. Ingvald_Bueny
                      +2
                      January 4 2013
                      Quote: Yarbay
                      My dear man !!
                      What does it mean that someone does not like the Russian Federation ??
                      Whoever doesn’t like those probably do not live, there’s a conversation about historical events !!
                      Why get in the pose of the offended !!? I do not like the politician of Russia, but this does not mean that I do not like Russia and the Russian people !! Do not confuse the concept!

                      You have a strange love for Russia. More like unfriendly demarches.
                      As for historical events, you interpret them in your own way, others in your own way. However, it is one thing when a person lives in his own country and think that another is its enemy and occupant; it is another thing when he comes with such thoughts to this "occupying" country, receives citizenship, work, etc. in absentia, he hates the country and the people to which he came. This does not concern you personally. It's just like a person from another country will go to build a business in your country and talk about past grievances, and not fictional ones. Or invent some grievances.
                      The answer please, you will like it, how will you relate to it?


                      Quote: Yarbay
                      How many Russians I don’t know, but there are a lot of Russians, in Baku, in Sumgait, in the Lankaran district, in the Ismaili district, in Shemakhi, in Ganja, etc., etc. !!

                      "A lot" is a metaphor, and 100 people can be a lot in one house, in the aisles of the region you will understand a little.
                      1. Yarbay
                        0
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        "A lot" is a metaphor, and 100 people can be a lot in one house, in the aisles of the region you will understand a little.

                        According to the latest census data, in my memory more than 200 thousand is not enough ??
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        You have a strange love for Russia. More like unfriendly demarches.

                        Nothing strange, I don’t like Russian politics, in particular with regard to my country, but I have many friends, acquaintances and Russian comrades, including in Russia, and I don’t confuse them with politicians !! If Yuri Kovalev (Azerbaijani hero) made Russian for my country more than I (died), how can I not like Russians ?? and there were many such guys!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        It’s just like a person from another country will go to build a business in your country and will talk there about past grievances, and non-fictitious ones. Or invent some insults.
                        The answer please, you will like it, how will you relate to it?

                        I did not understand the question!
                      2. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        It’s just like a person from another country will go to build a business in your country and will talk there about past grievances, and non-fictitious ones. Or invent some insults.
                        The answer please, you will like it, how will you relate to it?
                        I did not understand the question!

                        Question: What is your attitude towards a foreigner who lives in your country, has received citizenship, works but sets out unfriendly thoughts about her people and her people?
                      3. Yarbay
                        0
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Question: What is your attitude towards a foreigner who lives in your country, has received citizenship, works but sets out unfriendly thoughts about her people and her people?

                        Watching what you mean by the question * unfriendly thoughts *, if he speaks badly about the population, in particular about Russians as a nation and people, then I put it mildly badly!
                        But if he has his own opinion about Russian politics and historical events, then this is his right, especially in the matter, you emphasized that he is a citizen !!
                        Are there really few Russians who also think and have similar views !?
                      4. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Watching what you mean by the question * unfriendly thoughts *, if he speaks badly about the population, in particular about Russians as a nation and people, then I put it mildly badly!
                        But if he has his own opinion about Russian politics and historical events, then this is his right, especially in the matter, you emphasized that he is a citizen !!
                        Are there really few Russians who also think and have similar views !?

                        Russians have nothing to do with it. This means, for example, an Englishman who came to Azerbaijan for example and speaks unfriendly of him. Your attitude towards him.
                      5. Yarbay
                        0
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        . This refers, for example, to an Englishman who came to Azerbaijan for example and speaks unfriendly of him. Your attitude towards him

                        What are unfriendly comments, give an example ??
                        I answered in detail your question, you wrote a citizen before that, and you have citizens of many nationalities !!
                        Give an example of an unfriendly recall !!
                      6. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        What are unfriendly comments, give an example ??
                        I answered in detail your question, you wrote a citizen before that, and you have citizens of many nationalities !!
                        Give an example of an unfriendly recall !!

                        Example please: An Englishman tells you that you (for example) oppress the love of the Kurds (for example), do not give them independence, seize their land, and also (for example) tells you that Karabakh is the original Armenian region and you are in Antiquities captured. At the same time, the Englishman has business in your country and even received three times citizenship (for example) in order to overcome the tax burden. How will you feel about him after that?
                      7. Yarbay
                        -1
                        January 5 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The Englishman tells you that you (for example) oppress the love of the Kurds (for example), do not give them independence, seized their land, and also (for example) tells you that Karabakh is the original Armenian region and you seized it in ancient times.

                        In my memory it was !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        At the same time, an Englishman has a business in your country and even received three citizenship in it (for example) to overcome the tax burden
                        This is an incorrect example in Azerbaijan there is no dual citizenship institution, that is, it is impossible by constitution !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        How will you feel after this?

                        Well, this is his opinion, I will try to convince him that he is wrong by presenting arguments and facts, but again I emphasize that your example is unreal !!
                        Understand that any person has the right to their views and opinions in politics and historical events, you can’t take this as insults to the country and the people — this is stupid !! Another thing is you present him with the facts, argue his views, and then he will rest against it is clear that the person is inadequate !!
                        Another question is to insult the people, the nation, living on the territory of this country is mean!
                      8. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        January 5 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The Englishman tells you that you (for example) oppress the love of the Kurds (for example), do not give them independence, seized their land, and also (for example) tells you that Karabakh is the original Armenian region and you seized it in ancient times.
                        In my memory it was !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Moreover, an Englishman has business in your country and even received three times citizenship (for example) in order to overcome the tax burden. This is an incorrect example in Azerbaijan, there is no institution of dual citizenship, that is, it is impossible by constitution !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        How will you feel after this?
                        Well, this is his opinion, I will try to convince him that he is wrong by presenting arguments and facts, but again I emphasize that your example is unreal !!
                        Understand that any person has the right to their views and opinions in politics and historical events, you can’t take this as insults to the country and the people — this is stupid !! Another thing is you present him with the facts, argue his views, and then he will rest against it is clear that the person is inadequate !!
                        Another question is to insult the people, the nation, living on the territory of this country is mean!

                        Tell me, in your opinion, what needs to be done (by the measures provided by law) for your country (its legislation) as an example to those who act vilely (that is, insult a nation while living in your country)?
                      9. Ura-patriot
                        0
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny

                        Question: What is your attitude towards a foreigner who lives in your country, has received citizenship, works but sets out unfriendly thoughts about her people and her people?


                        Yes, you already leave the person alone, let the person who offended you is responsible for himself. Why is it that Yarbay should report for everyone. In any nation, that Azerbaijanian has offended and humiliated you, then go to him and give him a snout, no one has the right to humiliate one people before another. And then sit here polite of yourself build, sort it out like a man.

                        And in general, these offended Russians asked you to protect? no, then what is the conversation about.

                        Yarbay, do you have to sit here and report to him? At such a pace, it can make Hitler revive, and all Germany and the Germans will be responsible for Hitler. Georgians will begin to answer for Stalin’s miscalculations; all the Mongols will be responsible for Genghis Khan. Maybe he’ll find his grave, at least some business will do useful things.
                      10. Yarbay
                        -1
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Ura-patriot
                        Yarbay, do you have to sit here and report to him?

                        I’ve been on this site for a long time !! It's not about the report!
                        You see here there are people who themselves do not know what they want, pay attention to any disagreement with the policy of Russia, now or 200 years ago it is perceived as an insult to the Russian people and Russia!
                        I just want to show this that it’s not so stupid !!
                        In no case do I want the interlocutor to personally accept this as an insult!
                        There are a lot of adequate and decent people, so I've been writing here for almost a year!
                      11. Ura-patriot
                        +2
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay

                        I’ve been on this site for a long time !! It's not about the report!
                        You see here there are people who themselves do not know what they want, pay attention to any disagreement with the policy of Russia, now or 200 years ago it is perceived as an insult to the Russian people and Russia!
                        I just want to show this that it’s not so stupid !!
                        In no case do I want the interlocutor to personally accept this as an insult!
                        There are a lot of adequate and decent people, so I've been writing here for almost a year!


                        Well, it's up to you. I also understood that your interlocutor does not know what he wants. He walks around and beats his chest A kind of ur-patriot. Yesterday he cited the history of Kazakhstan, where it was written about the colonial policy of tsarism, so he generally said that the Kazakhs of "Type" are friendly, but in fact, all Russians were deprived of all rights. And today he writes:

                        Sorry, but in my opinion you are a Russophobe. We are Russians and Kazakhstanis, fraternal peoples, and people like you are splitting our friendship.
                        Brothers Kazakhstan and Russia wrote yesterday - he objected. And in addition, he accused Russophobia. It is necessary to distinguish the policy of tsarism and the Kazakhs distinguish it perfectly. We do not blame the Russians for the genocide of the Kazakhs, specifically Goloshchekin is guilty.
                        And Ingvald_Bueny now wants to be responsible for all the affairs of the Romanovs, Goloshchekins, Stalin, justifying them.
                        When Depardieu runs out of money and he becomes impoverished, his family, then all the French will answer because of him. Joke
                        I pass. I wish you all the best and your interlocutor
                      12. Yarbay
                        -2
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Ura-patriot
                        I pass. I wish you all the best and your interlocutor

                        I understand you, but I think I need to express my position to the end whenever possible, which I tried to do !!
                        And I wish you good health, happiness and good luck !!
        4. +4
          January 4 2013
          Quote: Yeraz
          Why did the Caucasus not submit to Russia for 200 years and still have problems with this region ?? Maybe because they believe that they were captured ??

          The Englishwoman is crap - that's why. Without Anglo-American money, the Caucasian war will end without any effort on our part.
      2. Orthodox warrior
        +6
        January 3 2013
        I thought if I could wait for him or not. Wait ... Well, of course! What the Azeri people don’t like is what the Armenians write. And only they and no one else. And about Gabala. There, too, the Armenians are to blame. Yes, and at the same time Russian. Right?
        1. Yarbay
          +1
          January 4 2013
          Quote: Orthodox warrior
          What the Azeri dislikes is that Armenians write

          because they write a lie !!
          Let them show the Armenian textbook in Russian !!
          Let Azerbaijani textbooks show where the quotes are from ??
          Mostly taken out of context or in general in textbooks there are no such suggestions !!
          and to such Rusers that you don’t like?
          Quote: Orthodox warrior
          And about Gabala. T

          What about Gabala ?? Russia refused to renew the contract is your problem!
          For 20 years, they used Gabala for almost free of charge, despite the fact that your country is officially a military ally of our enemy !!

          Quote: Orthodox warrior
          There, too, the Armenians are to blame. Yes, and at the same time Russian. Right?

          What do you think ???
          Are we to blame ??
          Whom you chose as your friends with those and dance !!
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +2
            January 4 2013
            Quote: Yarbay
            What about Gabala ?? Russia refused to renew the contract is your problem!
            For 20 years, they used Gabala for almost free of charge, despite the fact that your country is officially a military ally of our enemy !!

            It’s strange with us that we pay Azerbaijan a rent for the Soviet Gabala radar station. It turns out this is not true? What have they spent my taxes on.

            Quote: Yarbay
            What do you think ???
            Are we to blame ??
            Whom you chose as your friends with those and dance !!

            Well, of course, the Russians are to blame for everything, they probably drove themselves out of Azerbaijan.
            1. Yarbay
              +1
              January 4 2013
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              It’s strange with us that we pay Azerbaijan a rent for the Soviet Gabala radar station. It turns out this is not true?
              Payment was symbolic !!
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              of course the Russians are to blame for everything, they probably drove themselves out of Azerbaijan.

              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              of course the Russians are to blame for everything, they probably drove themselves out of Azerbaijan.

              Whom they kicked out, hundreds of thousands of Russians live in Azerbaijan and live very well !!
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +1
                January 4 2013
                Quote: Yarbay
                Payment was symbolic !!

                You live smartly, just 14 million American dollars for you is purely symbolic. Well done.

                Quote: Yarbay
                Whom they kicked out, hundreds of thousands of Russians live in Azerbaijan and live very well !!

                "According to the report of the chairman of the Russian community of Azerbaijan, Mikhail Zabelin, about 2004 thousand Russians remained in the country in 168, while on January 1979, 476, about 22 thousand citizens of Russian nationality lived in Azerbaijan, there were about 70 Russian settlements in 1989 regions of the republic. and settlements. In 392, 1999 thousand Russians lived in Azerbaijan (not counting other Russian-speaking), in 176 - XNUMX thousand. "
                So I would like to hear from you how many Russians live in your country. Only those who live in Karabakh do not need to be taken into account, they have their own specifics.
                And another question, if you have hundreds of thousands of Russians, and there are no more than 170 thousand of them (as of 2004), then why do several million of your compatriots live in my country. We are "occupiers", why didn't we "enslave" them? What do you think. Your opinion is interesting.
                1. Yarbay
                  -1
                  January 4 2013
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  1989, 392 lived in Azerbaijan

                  The fact that part of the population has left does not mean that they were expelled !!
                  There were thousands of people in the military family, people who, due to economic problems, left tens of thousands !!!
                  What have they kicked out ???
                  I know Zabelin personally and studied with his late daughter !!
                  Why did 170 thousand Russians remain in Azerbaijan?
                  Why did Zabelin stay?
                  How many Russians lived in Armenia and how many live now ??
                  What nations besides the Armenians themselves live in Armenia ??
                  Why is no one living?
                  If you find the answers it will be interesting to see !!))
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  about why there are several million of your compatriots living in my country.

                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  about why there are several million of your compatriots living in my country.
                  In my opinion, I already answered above !!
                  Why? This is a question for your leaders!
                  Hundreds of thousands of Russians, Avars, Lezghins, Ukrainians and other peoples live in my country !!
                  My compatriots are annoying you, act according to your own laws and drive someone away!
                  But I don’t need to make such a face that you having captured our territories in your time did us a favor!
                  Yours!
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +1
                    January 4 2013
                    Quote: Yarbay
                    The fact that part of the population has left does not mean that they were expelled !!
                    There were thousands of people in the military family, people who, due to economic problems, left tens of thousands !!!
                    What have they kicked out ???


                    "... The weakening of state power and the disintegration of the country could not but become a catalyst for the hard-restrained aggression of Azerbaijani extremists. It was known that the lists of those doomed to be exterminated were prepared in advance. Armenians were on the first list, Russians were on the second. However, no timely action was not taken, and on January 13, the massacre began.

                    Here is a live picture from the ninetieth year of Baku. Bezhenka N.I. T-va: “Something unimaginable was going on there. Pogroms began on January 13, 1990, and my child, clinging to me, said: “Mom, they’ll kill us now!” And after the troops were sent in, the director of the school where I worked (this is not for you in the market!), An Azerbaijani woman, an intelligent woman, said: “Nothing, the troops will leave - and here in every tree there will be Russian in every tree.” They fled, leaving their apartments, property, furniture ... But I was born in Azerbaijan, and not only me: my grandmother was also born there! .. ”

                    In 1990, Baku was seething with hatred for the "Russian occupiers." The Highlanders created Azerbaijan for the Azerbaijanis: “a mob was raiding in the streets and in houses, and the protesters were walking with mocking slogans:“ Russians, don’t leave, we need slaves and prostitutes! ” How many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Russian people have survived dozens of pogroms and "Holocausts" to, in the end, make sure that there is no friendship of peoples?

                    “A woman from 3agorsk turned out to be a Russian refugee from Baku. Outwardly similar to a suddenly aged teenage girl, she is pale, her hands are shaking, she says, stuttering strongly - so that it is sometimes difficult to make out the speech. Its problem is simple: on which point of which of the legal documents should they be considered refugees? they are not registered, but they are not accepted to work without a residence permit (“the truth is, I work part time by sewing, my floors are in the porches”), they grant them refugee status, they don’t give the money laid down in this case. Galina Ilinichna began to explain ... The refugee took out a sheet of paper and a fountain pen, but could not write anything - her hands shook so that the pen left only jumping scribbles on the sheet. I took to help.

                    Having finished writing, he asked the refugee, nodding at his shaking hands: “Why is it so with you? ..” “Oh, now it’s almost gone! I’m better now and speak (And I, sinfully, thought there was nowhere worse!) But then, when they killed us ... "" Where did they kill you? " “Yes, in Baku, where we lived. They broke down the door, hit her husband on the head, he was lying unconscious all this time, they beat me. Then they screwed me to the bed and began to rape the oldest one - Olga, she was twelve years old. Six of us. It’s good that they’ve locked the four-year-old Marinka in the kitchen, I didn’t see this ... Then they beat everyone in the apartment, scooped out what was needed, untied me and told me to get out before evening. When we fled to the airport, a girl fell almost at my feet - they threw me from the upper floors from somewhere. Blast! Her blood splattered my entire dress ... They ran to the airport, and they say that there are no places in Moscow. On the third day, they just flew away. And all the time, like a flight to Moscow, they loaded cardboard boxes with flowers, dozens for each flight ... They scoffed at the airport, promised to kill everyone. That's when I started to stutter. I couldn’t speak at all. And now, ”something like a smile appeared on her lips,“ now I speak much better. And the hands are not shaking so much ... "

                    I didn't have the courage to ask her what happened to the eldest, who was twelve years old, on the day of the monstrous abuse, how four-year-old Marinka survived all this horror ... ""
                    http://novostink.ru/sng/25204-smi-genocid-russkih-v-azerbaydzhane-belaya-kniga-p
                    amyati.html # ixzz2H1cXHViz
                    1. Yarbay
                      0
                      January 4 2013
                      Again, you cite a lie from Armenian sites that were not confirmed anywhere, in those days I was in Baku and I remember everything perfectly !!
                      Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                      Here is a live picture from nineties Baku

                      This is not a live picture but a lie !!
                      Why do 200 thousand Russian live here if it was so !!?
                      I wrote a lot about this in other topics and described what happened and how, I don’t want to repeat myself!
                      The link you provided is from an Armenian source, they riveted such a lie and riveted in the hundreds !!
                      Many Russian citizens of my country both then and now served and are serving our common country !!
                      1. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +2
                        January 4 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Again, you cite a lie from Armenian sites that were not confirmed anywhere, in those days I was in Baku and I remember everything perfectly !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Here is a live picture from nineties Baku
                        This is not a live picture but a lie !!
                        Why do 200 thousand Russian live here if it was so !!?
                        I wrote a lot about this in other topics and described what happened and how, I don’t want to repeat myself!
                        The link you provided is from an Armenian source, they riveted such a lie and riveted in the hundreds !!
                        Many Russian citizens of my country both then and now served and are serving our common country !!

                        The population of Russia in your country in 2009 is 119 (information from open sources).
                        "Between 1989 and 1999, the Russian population fell from 392 to 142, with 63% of the rest being women, and the average age of Russians rose to 41 (with the national average being 26-34)."
                        Those. it turns out that the Russian population in Azerbaijan is rapidly decreasing, and not being replenished.
                        Judging by your message, you are educated and well-mannered, so I wanted to hear your opinion. How do you think Azerbaijani citizens of Russian nationality feel when they are told that they are "invaders" and "occupants"?
                      2. Yarbay
                        0
                        January 5 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The number of Russian population


                        Surely again from Armenian open sources)))
                        In percentage terms, there are more Russians living in Azerbaijan than Azerbaijanis in Russia !!
                        You did not answer my question how many Russians live in Armenia ??
                        What nations besides Armenians live in Armenia ??
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Judging by your message, you are educated and well-mannered, so I wanted to hear your opinion. How do you think Azerbaijani citizens of Russian nationality feel when they are told that they are "invaders" and "occupants"?

                        Thank you for your assessment, but no one here calls living Russians invaders and invaders !! We both lived in the world and live helping each other! No need to compare the Baltic states with us, different mentality!
                        You see, no such thing !!
                        Here on the forum there is a citizen of my country of Russian nationality, ask him !!
                      3. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        January 5 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The number of Russian population

                        Surely again from Armenian open sources)))
                        In percentage terms, there are more Russians living in Azerbaijan than Azerbaijanis in Russia !!
                        You did not answer my question how many Russians live in Armenia ??
                        What nations besides Armenians live in Armenia ??

                        These are just words, we need facts. For example, the Russian population in Azerbaijan is 1,4% of the population (119 people). According to the census for 300, there are approximately 2002 thousand people in the Russian Federation. According to some reports, in 680, there are 2011 million people, of whom 3 million live in Moscow.
                        All this testifies to the fact that the Russian Government, which you criticize, created comfortable conditions for doing business for Azerbaijanis on the territory of the Russian Federation, and equated them in legal status with their citizens, also citizens of Russia of Azerbaijani nationality, have never been discriminated against in Russia. , and have a common legal status for all citizens of Russia. Thus, you have no reason to say that Russia is a "invader" or "occupier" country, and to condemn the decisions of our Government.

                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Thank you for your assessment, but no one here calls living Russians invaders and invaders !! We both lived in the world and live helping each other! No need to compare the Baltic states with us, different mentality!
                        You see, no such thing !!
                        Here on the forum there is a citizen of my country of Russian nationality, ask him !!

                        Perhaps such facts are simply not known to you. In any case, we are talking about the official position of your state in the field of education-history of relations with the Russian state. If it does not bother you, give an extensive comment on how you consider the author’s inaccuracies regarding this article regarding the teaching of the history of Azerbaijan in relations with the Russian state.
                      4. Yarbay
                        0
                        January 5 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        According to some reports, in 2011, there are 3 million people, of whom 1 million live in Moscow.

                        and how much is a percentage of 140 million ????
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Thus, you have no reason to say that Russia is a "invader" or "occupier" country, and to condemn the decisions of our Government.

                        Do you generally carefully read what I'm writing about ??
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The government that you criticize has created comfortable conditions for businessmen for Azerbaijanis in the Russian Federation
                        The same conditions are created for Russian and other nations. In Azerbaijan, nothing extraordinary!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Perhaps such facts are simply not known to you

                        How is it unknown ???
                        You see, you’re writing nonsense now !! I live in my own country and have not seen or heard that the rights of Russians in my country are infringed or called invaders and invaders, it is not necessary to pass off as wishful thinking!
                      5. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        January 5 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        and how much is a percentage of 140 million ????

                        You yourself count, I have no leisure.
                        Quote: Yarbay

                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Thus, you have no reason to say that Russia is a "invader" or "occupier" country, and to condemn the decisions of our Government.
                        Do you generally carefully read what I'm writing about ??

                        Read your message 19:45 for 4.12.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX. and previous posts where you wrote about the Russian Empire as "conquering".
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        The government that you criticize has created comfortable conditions for businessmen for Azerbaijanis in the Russian Federation.
                        The same conditions are created for Russian and other nations. In Azerbaijan, nothing extraordinary!

                        If so, only glad. In any case, the question concerned your criticism of the Government of my country. Do you acknowledge that your criticism is unfounded?
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        How is it unknown ???
                        You see, you’re writing nonsense now !! I live in my own country and have not seen or heard that the rights of Russians in my country are infringed or called invaders and invaders, it is not necessary to pass off as wishful thinking!

                        I do not wish any people that their rights would be infringed, I wish peace and prosperity to all nations, so you should not pass your thoughts on Yarbay as mine. Dear, you may be a representative of the Azerbaijani intelligentsia, most likely you do not know such facts. Moreover, this took place in 1990, in the future such actions may have completely disappeared, which may have been facilitated by the strengthening of the central government in Baku and, for sure, attention to this issue from Moscow. Information about negative actions against Russians and Russian-speaking in the 90s of the twentieth century in the border republics of the USSR is full of open access, do you want to say that this is not true, that this did not take place, that the people who write about it and They say they are misleading us Russians? Just think, in a couple of years, almost 300 thousand people suddenly left your country, some of them went missing or suffered from illegal actions. Not just that they were traveling from a "friendly" country? If you have other information, then voice it.

                        P / S Nobody blames the whole Azerbaijani people for this, on the contrary, Russia is quite friendly towards him, just admit that nationalist-minded citizens of Azerbaijani nationality in the Azerbaijan SSR exerted pressure on Russians and Russian speakers, as well as illegal actions against them from which the latter suffered, and condemn their actions with the full qualification of the deed and compensate the victims for losses.
                        Then you already have every right to call the Soviet Union a state "occupier" and "exploiter."
                        Or else you can’t call him that because the USSR released the Azerbaijan USSR not as a result of the national liberation struggle, but peacefully without territorial and national claims from the Union Center.
                      6. Yarbay
                        0
                        January 6 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        You yourself count, I have no leisure.

                        The same percentage, maybe less !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Do you acknowledge that your criticism is unfounded?

                        My criticism is more than justified, you read inattentively!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Dear, you are probably a representative of the Azerbaijani intelligentsia, most likely you do not know such facts.
                        The question is not, give your facts if you have them !!
                        But the facts, not the lies of Armenian authors!
                        Have you ever been to Baku ??
                        If you will ever be, you will understand how wrong your ideas are !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        , would you like to say that this is not true, that this did not have a place to be, that the people who write and speak about this mislead us Russians?
                        Of course, because otherwise so many Russians would not have lived here!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Didn't they just go from a "friendly" country?
                        Not only Russians but also Azerbaijanis were leaving, because there was a war and a difficult economic situation, and I wrote above that the military left their families, you do not read !!
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        Or else you can’t call him that because the USSR released the Azerbaijan USSR not as a result of the national liberation struggle, but peacefully without territorial and national claims from the Union Center.

                        You are deeply mistaken as a result of the inept policy of Gorbachev. In the Azerbaijan SSR, the national liberation struggle unfolded !!
                      7. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +1
                        January 6 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        The same percentage, maybe less !!

                        The growth dynamics of your compatriots in my country is positive while mine in yours is negative. You must understand that this leads to reflection.
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        The question is not, give your facts if you have them !!
                        But the facts, not the lies of Armenian authors!
                        Have you ever been to Baku ??
                        If you will ever be, you will understand how wrong your ideas are !!

                        In the facts I have cited, there is a link to the source. Especially since
                        You already discussed this issue a year ago with Uv. Zeleniy 413-1685.
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        Of course, because otherwise so many Russians would not have lived here!

                        In the Baltic countries, too many Russians live, but they are there in a not very comfortable atmosphere. Once again, this happened in the 90s in connection with the collapse of the USSR, no one claims that this is happening in Azerbaijan now.
                        If you feel resentment towards the Soviet "colonial" power, and recognize its activity as "negative", this is your full right as a state, and no one argues with this. But why not then give an assessment of the activities of nationalist-minded citizens in the 90s of the twentieth century in your country in relation to the Russians. Or completely refute it motivatedly from various sources. Agree that the decentralization of power and centrifugal processes in your country and the entire USSR led to a case of negative and illegal attitudes towards Russians in 1990.
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        You are deeply mistaken as a result of the inept policy of Gorbachev. In the Azerbaijan SSR, the national liberation struggle unfolded !!

                        Suppose ... but who was this "fight" against? By any chance, not against the "Russian occupants"?
                      8. Yarbay
                        0
                        January 6 2013
                        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                        this took place in the 90s in connection with the collapse of the USSR, no one claims that this is happening now in Azerbaijan.

                        Well, this was not in the 90s as you imagine)))))
                        You are zombie by nazi ideas !!
                        I just do not want to repeat myself in the third round !!
                        Above, I set out the reasons for migration at that time, and not only for Russians !!
                        But you could not and cannot bring the facts!
                        Come to Azerbaijan and talk to the people who lived here and live here!
                      9. Ingvald_Bueny
                        0
                        January 7 2013
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        You are zombie Nazi ideas!

                        What kind of idea is this? No insults.
                        You can’t answer the facts and say so.
          2. Orthodox warrior
            +2
            January 4 2013
            Azerbaijani delirium! Aze.y are always right! But Russians and Armenians are enemies! Azera built Gabala! And we used it and did not pay! Again, the Russians and the Armenians are to blame! fellow And everything that does not agree with your understanding is all taken out of context! fellow Bravo! Go ahead and with the song!
      3. +9
        January 3 2013
        I can understand your dislike of the Armenians, but you should not go too far. In Yerevan, where I serve, there are Russian schools and no one closed them. Regarding Adam, this is a mentality, I know firsthand and this fact is not in favor of the Armenians.
        1. Orthodox warrior
          +4
          January 4 2013
          Roman, you tell me? I wrote this with irony to our "friend" from sunny Azerbaijan.
          1. +1
            January 4 2013
            So I also wrote to him, apparently a dumbass on a site of some kind.
        2. YuDDP
          +1
          January 4 2013
          Everything is logical for Armenians with religion - in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem there is an Armenian side chapel, so they have the right ...
          1. +1
            January 4 2013
            So the Armenians adopted Christianity earlier than us ....
        3. Yarbay
          +1
          January 4 2013
          Quote: Tupolev-95

          I can understand your dislike of the Armenians, but you should not go too far. In Yerevan, where I serve, there are Russian schools and no one has closed them
          And my dislike, it is a whispered fact !!
          There are no Russian schools in Armenia and do not lie!

          I'm not talking about schools for the Russian military !!
          Recently, at the suggestion of the Minister of Education, the Armenian blogosphere has been actively discussing the possibility of opening Russian (and not only!) Schools in Armenia. Most bloggers are against it.

          http://www.meronq.com/threads/4618-%D0%AF%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BA-%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE%D
          0%B9-%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3-%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9/page12

          http://forum.hayastan.com/index.php?showtopic=43272


          These things about Russians are written by Armenians, not Kazakhs, Ukrainians or Azerbaijanis!
          1. +1
            January 6 2013
            How stubborn you are. In addition to the schools of the Ministry of Defense and the border troops of the Russian Federation, in Yerevan there is a Russian school named after Pushkin, school number 69 named. Sakharova, the Russian school №147 is only those schools in which children of our military personnel study, so I know about them. What bloggers write there and how they relate to Russians are of little interest to me. I serve where the Motherland ordered. You accused me of lying, I answered you.
            1. max-02215
              0
              January 10 2013
              Yes, with these eternally offended and occupied, it is very difficult to conduct a conversation, it’s a little bit like eternal intrigues of the enemies, but the fact that our compatriots were driven from all the republics is a fact. One thing infuriates us, they instilled this fucking tolerance into us, and we suffer from it, if we did it, we wouldn’t have had the same questions now, or maybe not late ........
  20. +4
    January 3 2013
    History is now being written about - and who wants what, and everyone who is not lazy. And as for the fact that we lost the cold war and are losing informational war with enviable persistence, the mentality of the Russian peasant is this: it’s easier to hit him in the face than to answer empty words. But seriously, this topic, about the perversion in this case of history in our time, is the most acute and painful, but to put someone who has gone too far to put "there is no law now ...", as in V. Vysotsky: The precedent of permissiveness has been created, well, and further, you also know everything about gin ...
  21. Nurker
    -8
    January 3 2013
    I did not like the article, but the opinion here is with a very subtle subconscious focus. They are trying to put pressure on the Russian people, allegedly, these CIS are ungrateful, do not love and hate all of them because they hate us.

    Such articles should not be written, otherwise it will turn out like an advertisement for beer: "Drinking beer seriously harms your health" or "the Ministry of Health warns", and this is an advertising trick and will work
    1. Ingvald_Bueny
      +7
      January 3 2013
      It is not necessary to consider the Russian people "inconsiderate" that one can press on it with such information, the author just cited facts concerning the educational policy of some states in the sphere of history and relations with Russia. Moreover, this whole policy demonstrates itself very clearly. Do you really think that in our age of accessible information technologies it is so easy to manipulate public opinion in Russia? That would be a funny opinion.
      1. Nurker
        -8
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        It is not necessary to consider the Russian people "inconsiderate" that one can press on it with such information, the author just cited facts concerning the educational policy of some states in the sphere of history and relations with Russia. Moreover, this whole policy demonstrates itself very clearly. Do you really think that in our age of accessible information technologies it is so easy to manipulate public opinion in Russia? That would be a funny opinion.


        I don’t think. Most of the many convictions themselves prove it, it is in all nations. Specifically, this article carries such a conviction for the Russian people that, without a doubt, everyone unconsciously hates Other CIS nations
        1. +6
          January 4 2013
          You know, ordinary Russian people see how different "brotherly" peoples "thank" them for the good. For example, the Bulgarian "brothers", like the Germans to us, so these in the train, serve cartridges. But the Russians paid for the liberation of Bulgaria from the Turks at the highest price, in blood. And as far as I remember, then the Bulgarians were not occupied. And in the textbooks we were told about the Bulgarian brothers who were grateful to us at the very least! Yes, there are many such examples in the history of Russia. Maybe that's why the Russian people have such an attitude towards all kinds of "brothers"?
        2. -3
          January 4 2013
          Articles are written NOT by ordinary people, but by agents from the West or the Kremlin, and why should I, a Russian citizen, accept Western propaganda?
      2. Nurker
        -2
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        Do you really think that in our age of accessible information technology it is so easy to manipulate public opinion in Russia? That would be a ridiculous opinion.


        Do not be surprised, but it is true. In our age of information technologies, public consciousness can be manipulated as you like, it allows you to influence various literature and the media faster and stronger. the same films by Mikhalkov, Cartoons of Russian fairy tales (modern), yes you can regulate through whatever you want, from kindergarten to university
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +3
          January 3 2013
          I am not surprised, but in my opinion it is you who are manipulating in this case, because really not everything is so smooth in the space of the former USSR between the CIS members, and one should not build illusions of harmony in their relations. After all, as one saying goes, "Better a bitter truth than a sweet lie."
          1. Nurker
            -4
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            and you should not build illusions of harmony in their relationship. After all, as one saying goes, "Better a bitter truth than a sweet lie"


            What are you talking about? if you think that relations in Kazakhstan are inhuman, then you are mistaken in a cruel way
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +5
              January 3 2013
              You probably misunderstood me or did not understand what I wrote to you in my message. Moreover, here "inhuman relations", meaning that the relations of one state with another are far from ideal, like the relations of other states, this is a property of politics. Another thing is that when one state talks about friendship with another, and educates its citizens from school in the spirit of the fact that it is an "enemy" and an "occupant", then these relations cannot be called friendly, and not even pragmatic. Or do you think differently?
              1. Nurker
                -4
                January 3 2013
                Then I want to reassure you, children in Kazakhstan for whom Russia, like an evil empire or something else of this kind, are not being raised. Do not judge many things by books or articles.
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  +2
                  January 3 2013
                  That is, in your textbooks there isn’t a word about this?
            2. 0
              January 4 2013
              Quote: nurker
              You think that in Kazakhstan there are inhuman relations, then you are mistaken in a cruel way

              Note that you wrote this, your interlocutor did not say anything like that !!!
    2. +4
      January 3 2013
      But it seems to me that it’s not the Russian people who are pressing on you, but someone else living on the American continent.
      1. Nurker
        -4
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Simon
        But it seems to me that it’s not the Russian people who are pressing on you, but someone else living on the American continent.


        Congratulations, you guessed the CTD)))

        For the fact that you buy Pepsi now blame the United States and the Jews
  22. von_Richten
    +4
    January 3 2013
    And you are talking about some kind of Eurasian Union. All these "brotherly" peoples are spitting on us and spitting - it's time for them to spit in response, but I'm afraid the flimsy economies of these banana republics (except for a couple of countries) will not stand it.
  23. Beck
    -9
    January 3 2013
    It’s somehow incomprehensible. The colonial era existed objectively, as in its time the slave era. All strong states lived according to the rules of the colonial era, that is, they carried out colonial seizures, and Russia annexed vast territories, as it were, did not exist in the colonial era.

    Today, when the era of colonialism has ended, when international relations have changed to deny the regular period of colonization, in the history of Russia, this is stupid. It turns out that the Turks, Anglo-Saxons, French, Belgians, they lived in the era of colonization and captured the colonies, and Russia at that time, as it were, as a state did not exist. This is all the same if one asserts that there was no invasion of Batu by Russia, but there was, in the highest degree, a noble desire to unite the Russian principalities and create a single Russian state.

    A little history that cheers patriots are turning.

    Voluntary accession of Kazakhstan. "In 1730, the Khan of the Younger Zhuz, Abulkhair, turned to the Russian government with a proposal for a military alliance. It was rejected and in return it was proposed to accept the patronage (protectorate) of Russia. On February 19, 1731, Empress Anna Ioannovna signed a letter of" voluntary "entry of the Younger Zhuz into the Russian Empire . " In 1853, the Russian troops of General Perovsky stormed the present-day Kzyl-Horde by the Ak-Mosque. In 1864, troops led by Chernyaev captured Chimkent. At the same time, the traveler Severtsov, who was in the army, opposes the cruelty of Chernyaev. Also, Bukhara, Khiva, Tashkent, Turkmenistan were subordinated by military force.

    The accession of Ukraine is the result of the colonial struggle between the colonial powers of Russia, the Ottoman Empire, and Austria-Hungary, in which Russia won. The annexation of Transcaucasia is the result of rivalry between Russia, the Ottoman Empire, and Iran. And all this is not liberation campaigns. And tearing each other’s lands. And this does not mean that if these lands were captured by the Ottomans, Austrians, Iranians, then this is undoubtedly colonialism, but if Russia was captured, then this is liberation. Talking about the North Caucasus is also not necessary. Russia conquered it for 50 years.

    And if now in the former republics of the USSR its own history is restored, then what is bad here. I studied according to Soviet history textbooks and in them about my country it all came down to the words of a yurt, steppe, shepherd. I learned the real story only after the collapse of the USSR, when the works of Russian scientists Gumilyov, Klyashtorny and others, which were not officially published in Soviet times, began to be published.

    You just have to admit that Russia developed in line with world history, with all its periods. In which Russia acted in accordance with the relevant world attitudes of that time - feudalism, colonialism, capitalism. As I admit, not only in Russia there are nationalists who also distort the past.
    1. +3
      January 3 2013
      Each nation has a sacred right to its history, but it is still desirable that it be objective. Russian colonial policy was very different from British, for example.
      1. +4
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Tupolev-95
        Russian colonial policy was very different from British, for example.

        You understand this, but Beck does not know anything about it. He (after 1991) was told that Kazakhstan was a colony and that was enough for him. After all, it was reputable for him people. And you won’t be able to convince. Only he can find the truth (if he wants). And now Russia is a colonizer for him.
        1. Beck
          -1
          January 4 2013
          Quote: tan0472
          You understand this, but Beck does not know anything about it. He (after 1991) was told that Kazakhstan was a colony and that was enough for him.


          Often you can hear in disputes, not far off, they told him that, they inspired him, the third was propagandized. And that a person cannot have his own analysis, based on existing knowledge. What I wrote above comes from world history, from the history of Russia, which I read in Soviet textbooks and articles of the Soviet era.

          I now admit that Russia pursued a colonial policy like other countries of the era of colonialism. And I admit that in Soviet times, the colonial policy of tsarist Russia was replaced (the communist ideology could not recognize colonialism) with a policy of brotherhood and equality, but with the communist dictate of Moscow. I admit that under the USSR the most striking forms of colonial rule were absent. And I admit that for the development of the entire USSR, it was necessary to develop other republics (regions of a single state). I acknowledge that through the Russian language and Russian culture I joined the world culture.

          But you do not want to recognize a whole era in the development of Russia. Like there were no colonial acquisitions. Russia did not participate in it. She did not want anything, everyone came. And you do not want to recognize the axiom of colonialism. That all colonial seizures are carried out either by force or by the threat of the use of force.

          And to say it costs little. There was an era of colonialism. Russia participated in it as it could. But now other times. And all the past story. And no complaints. What was it was. And now we are already building the Eurasian Economic Community, but not on the basis of the installations of colonialism, but on an equal footing. How the European Union is built.
          1. stranik72
            +1
            January 4 2013
            The colonial policy that you are writing about (and it was so on the part of the Western countries) implies the enslavement and destruction of nationalities, and if you are trying to be objective, then the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union did not pursue such a policy, on the contrary, we tried to bring the "enslaved" peoples to a higher level in its development, while maintaining its individuality.
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              January 7 2013
              Quote: stranik72
              we tried to bring the "enslaved" peoples to a higher level in our development while preserving their individuality.

              Hmmm, and what kind of Disneyland theaters did the Russian government build in Turkestan? Nothing but military bases and infrastructure for managing new territories. Well, it also provided subsidies to the Russian Holozady Stolypin landless immigrants, in whose favor lands were massively taken from local residents. Read the reasons for the largest uprising on the territory of the Russian Empire in 1916 in Turkestan.
          2. -1
            January 4 2013
            Quote: Beck

            Beck

            Russia has already abandoned Gabala, in ten years it will also abandon Baikonur, and then, when Russian colonialism with respect to the most ancient Kazakh people will end, you will soon begin to hunt gophers again if p-and-d-o-s-a-m are for rent the cosmodrome, built by the colonialists, will not be handed over, but rather to the Chinese, they will wean you from the ancient habits of spitting in the well.
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              January 7 2013
              Quote: cherkas.oe
              Ten years later, he will refuse from Baikonur, and then, when Russian colonialism with respect to the most ancient Kazakh people will end, you will soon begin to hunt gophers again

              Excuse me, but now, just because of Baikonur, Kazakhs don't hunt gophers? I see no logic in your emotional message ... 115 million dollars that Russia pays for Baikonur (and even then this money really doesn’t come alive, at first Russia gave air trash, which then the Kazakhs repaired for their hard-earned money in Ukraine and Belarus, and Now Moscow simply pays for training grounds with barter - by training Kazakhstani cadets in Russian universities) it turns out that they are saving Kazakhstan? In a fit of Kazakhophobia, you didn’t confuse the generally wealthy Kazakhstan with Tajikistan? Are you also one of those who are offered here on the "turn off the gas to Kazakhs" line? :)))))))))
              1. +1
                January 7 2013
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                "turn off gas to Kazakhs"? :)

                About real money, you need to ask your management. Until a certain time, I personally considered the Kazakhs the first ally of Russia, when I voted for an alliance, I proved to friends with foam that only Kazakhstan could coexist with Russia from all the former eastern republics, but exactly until my dear uncle left Almaat, who devoted his whole life to the development of industry and the training of nat. those. personnel in Kazakhstan. When he left your republic he was already 86 years old and disappointed he was not in your rulers, namely in the people, I will not give his last statements on this subject, so as not to earn himself more penalty points. My illusions about the fraternal Kazakh people, my sister and son-in-law who returned from Baikonur, having worked in space throughout their lives and studied Kazakhs from and to, scattered my illusions even more. So do not be offended by my, as you put it emotional messages. The subject I know well firsthand.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  January 10 2013
                  I wonder how it is Suddenly offended your 86-year-old uncle? Did not give work? Or did the Kazakhs now also begin to insult old people?
                  And since when did the Kazakhs manage to "intimidate" the Russians in Baikonur? Considering that the Russians live there according to their own laws and under their control?
          3. His
            +1
            January 5 2013
            Watch Mu Beck's film "Spring on the Street beyond the River" - there you will see the colonialists. A film about your steppes
        2. +1
          January 4 2013
          Russia's policy with respect to the annexed territories was not colonial in principle, so there was no Russian colonial empire.
          P Since the era of colonialism has not ended, you (Kazakhs) simply do not feel it under the wing of Russia.
          1. Beck
            +3
            January 4 2013
            Quote: Setrac
            P Since the era of colonialism has not ended


            The era of colonialism ended in a purulent abscess of 2MB. After all, what did Germany, Japan, Italy want. They wanted a redivision of the world. Since they lagged behind in the seizure of colonial spaces from England, France, Belgium, Portugal, etc.
            It was to acquire "living spaces" that they unleashed a war. To pick up raw materials. But after the war, the colonial era collapsed. Entire continents gained independence. Now they don’t take everything, but buy what they need.
            1. stranik72
              +3
              January 4 2013
              Ha ha, but the war in Iraq, Libya is not a continuation of the colonial policy, changing the format a little, the territory does not need resources. To whom did they get Iraqi oil, but Libyan too. Yes, and for 2MB, the United Kingdom also do not share the boy in that fire.
              1. Beck
                +1
                January 4 2013
                Quote: stranik72
                Ha ha, but the war in Iraq, Libya is not a continuation of the colonial policy, changing the format a little,


                These are not colonial wars. In Iraq and Libya, bloody dictatorial regimes were overthrown by the world community.

                What Iraq and Libya declared by someone’s colonies? What do they give their oil and gas to the west for free? They sell it to anyone they want. Won Iraq, in your US colony, granted oil concessions to Russian Lukoil for $ 2 billion, signed military contracts for the supply of Russian weapons for $ 3 billion. And what kind of colony can do this. Iraq would have to buy weapons in the United States and not sell to Russia, but give its oil for free to Amers. By default, occupation troops should be in the colonies. In Iraq and Libya, they are not.

                After WW2, England voluntarily abandoned all of its colonies and the mandate to govern the Middle East. England now has only two overseas possessions. This is the naval base of Giblartar, by agreement of the Spanish government, and the Falkland Islands. But at the Falklands in 2014 there will be a referendum where residents of the archipelago should speak out where they want to go. Under the jurisprudence of England or Argentina.

                Repeat the story, refresh the definition of phenomena, sort out the surroundings.
                1. +2
                  January 4 2013
                  Quote: Beck
                  These are not colonial wars. In Iraq and Libya, bloody dictatorial regimes were overthrown by the world community.

                  Rave. Yes, they give oil for free, because they owe money for helping to overthrow the "bloody" regime. Or do you, by your naivety Bekovskaya, think that all the bombs dropped on the territory of the "bloody" regime have no value?
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +2
                    January 4 2013
                    Quote: Alexej
                    Rave. Yes, they give free oil,

                    Of course it's free, who will ask them, and even if asked, they will answer what they will be told. After all, "Rangers" are not wandering around.
        3. Marek Rozny
          +2
          January 7 2013
          Believe it or not, in Soviet times the tsarist advance into Turkestan was also called "colonial" and "conquering". A sample of a typical paragraph in Soviet times:
          "The Andijan uprising of 1898 was a consequence of the colonialist policies of tsarism in Wed. Of asiawhich caused in the 80-90s. a wave of spontaneous popular performances in the Ferghana region. The discontent of the masses was used by the feudal nobility and the Muslim clergy of the former Kokand Khanate (See Kokand Uprising 1873-1876). At the head of A. century. Madali-ishan stood, who settled in the village of Ming-Tyube (near Andijan). In fomenting the religious fanaticism of the masses, he drew to his side part of the working population. Madali Ishan established a connection with the Turkish Sultan. Leaders A. century. they planned to raise an uprising in Andijan, Osh, Margelan under the slogan of ghazavat (a holy war against the "infidels"), to capture Namangan, restore the Kokand khanate, and spread the uprising to the whole Wed. Asia, introduce the old, feudal orders. On May 17, participants in the uprising gathered in Ming-Tyube and its environs and marched to Andijan.
          The rebels, the bulk of which were farmers, farmers and cattle breeders, day laborers-mardikers, armed mainly with knives, totaled up to 2 thousand people. On May 18, at dawn, they suddenly attacked the barracks of two companies of the 20th Turkestan Line Cadre Battalion, located on the outskirts of Andijan. The soldiers, after suffering minor casualties, scattered an unorganized crowd with fire. The movement was quickly and brutally crushed. 383 people were condemned by the tsarist authorities, 18 of them (including Madali-ishan) were hanged, the rest were sent to penal servitude and settlement. A. century was defeated, not only because of poor preparedness, but also because, contrary to anticolonial moods of the bulk Its participants, the leadership of the uprising fell into the hands of the feudal lords and clergy, who sought to restore their privileges with the help of the popular movement. Nevertheless A. century. objectively contributed to the further increase in the national liberation struggle of the peoples of Turkestan".

          Lit .: History of the Uzbek SSR, vol. 2, Tashkent, 1968. H.T. Tursunov.


          Z.Y. And all this was written under strict Soviet censorship quite legally. It is very strange that you did not know about what even the Soviet government openly called this period until 1917 - frank colonization. True, the tsar and the Russian Empire were appointed to blame, and not the Russian people. In general, the Russian people and now no one in the textbooks or in the speech of officials does not call the invaders. They write about the politics of tsarist Russia when they talk about the colonization and seizure of Turkestan. It is the Russians in Russia blinded by hatred that confuse these concepts.
    2. Ingvald_Bueny
      +1
      January 3 2013
      Dear, in my opinion you have just set out your version of the story in the version that the author spoke about. Which confirms the facts that the author cited. But after all, many of your compatriots think differently and Russia is a friend to them, not a colonizer.
      1. Nurker
        -1
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
        But after all, many of your compatriots think differently and Russia is a friend to them, not a colonizer.


        We consider the Russian people a friend and we are historical brothers with them, no matter what.

        And the leading elite was far from perfect
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +4
          January 3 2013
          Strange statements you have about your friend, meaning your message 14.10. Somehow it was not friendly, you did it.
        2. +2
          January 4 2013
          Despite everything - what is this? Please specify what Russia is to blame?
          Maybe Russia is friends "no matter what"?
          1. Beck
            +2
            January 4 2013
            Quote: Setrac
            Despite everything - what is this? Please specify what Russia is to blame?


            Russia is not to blame for anything. In the colonial era, she vomited her interests. That's all. This is to admit. History is history. And then it starts - we did not do anything. Not captured, not attached. It’s just that the Pacific Ocean and Tien Shan with the Pamirs themselves rolled up to our Russian borders.

            I now admit that the Batu invasion of Russia was. And I’m not saying that it was the Russian princes who wanted to voluntarily live, not for nothing, not for nothing, in the Golden Horde yoke.
    3. Nurker
      -8
      January 3 2013
      Beck, bro, here we run into the mines of Great Russian chauvinism !!!
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +5
        January 3 2013
        On the contrary. Maybe you’re laying mortar Russophobia mines here?
        1. Nurker
          -4
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          On the contrary. Maybe you’re laying mortar Russophobia mines here?


          No, Russian brothers for me, like all of humanity
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +3
            January 3 2013
            This is nothing more than pathos, a beautiful slogan. Your internationalism will disappear as soon as your interests and those of the neighboring side collide. Or will it be otherwise? I doubt it.
            1. Beck
              +1
              January 4 2013
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              Your internationalism will disappear as soon as your interests and those of the neighboring side collide. Or will it be otherwise? I doubt it.


              There are trade-offs for this. All world politics is based on compromises. Evrazes is also built on these compromises. For a consensus, someone is necessarily inferior in one and acquires in the other.
          2. +5
            January 3 2013
            Quote: nurker
            No, Russian brothers for me, like all of humanity

            To be all friend and brother is to not be anyone.
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +3
              January 3 2013
              Logically, like higher mathematics.
              1. Nurker
                -2
                January 3 2013
                http://www.sdelanounih.ru/rossiya-kak-unikalnaya-civilizaciya-i-kultura/
              2. +1
                January 4 2013
                Logically, like higher mathematics.
                Lobachevsky you are ours!
            2. +2
              January 4 2013
              To be all friend and brother is to not be anyone.
              Ah, well done! Ah yes clever !!! So them !!!
              "Either - something in half, or - something to smithereens"!
              Here it is - in our opinion !!!
              "He who is not with us is against us!" And no need to think! Simple, isn't it?
              All this has already happened ... Everyone knows what it led to.
              But, owe you, dear Alexei , disappoint - in this world, in addition to white and black colors, there are also half tones ...
              Yes, and white itself (only strictly between us!) Consists of a combination of seven colors!
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +2
                January 4 2013
                Quote: Ward # 6
                To be all friend and brother is to not be anyone.
                Ah, well done! Ah yes clever !!! So them !!!
                "Either - something in half, or - something to smithereens"!
                Here it is - in our opinion !!!
                "He who is not with us is against us!" And no need to think! Simple, isn't it?
                All this has already happened ... Everyone knows what it led to.
                But, should you, dear Alexej, disappoint - in this world, in addition to white and black colors, there are also half tones ...
                Yes, and white itself (only strictly between us!) Consists of a combination of seven colors!

                Are you probably an artist?
                1. +2
                  January 5 2013
                  Ingvald_Bueny RU
                  Are you probably an artist?

                  Yes. In the shower. By profession - a painter. Painter.
                  By the way, "probably" is an introductory word. Separated with commas.
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +1
                    January 5 2013
                    Quote: Ward # 6
                    Ingvald_Bueny RU
                    Are you probably an artist?
                    Yes. In the shower. By profession - a painter. Plasterer.
                    By the way, "probably" is an introductory word. Separated with commas.

                    You also understand punctuation. Perhaps you are a painter of the highest category?
                    1. 0
                      January 5 2013
                      Perhaps you are a painter of the highest category?
                      "Well, what are you! Unlike you, I'm just learning!"
          3. +4
            January 3 2013
            Quote: nurker
            No, Russian brothers for me, like all of humanity

            Why are you "bro" infringing on me (a resident of Kazakhstan) on the basis of language?
          4. +2
            January 4 2013
            Interestingly, put a plus, nothing has changed
          5. +2
            January 4 2013
            And for example, Hitler, you also love? Or an Anglo-Saxon pilot who bombed a school in Libya?
      2. +5
        January 3 2013
        Quote: nurker

        Beck, bro, here we run into the mines of Great Russian chauvinism !!!

        Well, if you want to write the story as you want and as it is more profitable, more convenient, then you can run into the terminal and do something more serious than poking your nose into unpleasant facts.
      3. +4
        January 3 2013
        Quote: nurker

        Beck, bro, here we run into the mines of Great Russian chauvinism !!!

        The ship of the Kazakh nationalism "leaned" on the mines of the Great Russian chauvinism. laughing
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +3
          January 3 2013
          Fight fire with fire.
    4. +7
      January 3 2013
      What other colonization? Rave. It was the UNION. Why, then, after Gorbachev’s liberation from colonial oppression, did these colonies not live better?
      1. Nurker
        -5
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Alexej
        What other colonization? Rave. It was the UNION. Why, then, after Gorbachev’s liberation from colonial oppression, did these colonies not live better?


        Well, well, was the oprichnina a union too?
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          +2
          January 3 2013
          Oprichnina, and where?
          1. +2
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Oprichnina, and where?

            Not at all. The arguments are not enough. That pokes what he can.
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +4
              January 3 2013
              His ship of "nationalism" crashed on the rock of "Great Russian" chauvinism.
          2. Nurker
            -4
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
            Oprichnina, and where?


            The oprichnina allowed the Moscow principality to destroy in the first place all its competitors, the Russians, and then go to the Tatars, Bashkirs, Georgians, therefore there are such expressions as Russian Tatars, Russian Georgian, Russian Bashkir, Russian German, Russian Jew, Russian means that he is a protectorate among the Russians, that is, "Russian" Whose? Russian. This became the unification of all peoples around Russia, Russian subjects, "Russian Tatars". The Russian Ukrainian probably also exists, I could be wrong, I'm sorry, but it's somehow strange when the Russians call their brotherly people Ukraine (Ukraine) ami, crest. Subsequently, these "Russians" were already brought up or saw everything differently than their ancestors and automatically became Russian. My friend (a descendant of Ukrainians or a Ukrainian crest), when he took a passport with me, took his Russian nationality, his right. In no way I am not condemning, I have no right. Sometimes there are even jokes about why all Chinese are similar, Koreans, physiological features, but for some reason the Russians are completely different from each other: blue, green, brown, black eyes differ, skin colors are also different, you can meet a little Russian, but also big there are heroes too, the types are too different. This is also the case among Kazakhs, but that's why we are divided into countless tribes and clans.

            If, of course, the USSR were still today, then I would also consider myself completely Russian, who knows
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              +3
              January 3 2013
              Before writing, you should think about what you are writing.
              Firstly, Russian is an ethno-confessional name that arose during the period of feudal fragmentation and became more common during the Mongol invasion and after it. When a single Ruska Power split up into independent princedoms of Galicia, Vladimir-Suzdal, Novgorod aristocratic republic, etc. the inhabitants of these regions began to call themselves Russian, as they belonged to a single ethnic group but to different regional entities, later Russian became also a synonym for the Orthodox. Russian means that he is the son of the Russian Land. For example, Rusin and Russian are one and the same. Russian Ukrainian is a border guard. Russian Tatar is Russified Tatar, as well as Russified German, Russified Jew, Russified Bashkir, Russified Kazakh, etc.
              Expressions "Khokhol", "Katsap", "Bulbash", etc. in relation to this or that representative of the Russian People, nothing more than small-town jokes. So your friend did the right thing, because he is not a "Tselina crest", but Russian.
              Secondly, what does the oprichnina have to do with the relations between the Russian and Kazakh Peoples?
              Thirdly, you can consider yourself anyone, only you will not become anyway, and you don’t need it.
              P / S Your messages are extremely Russophobic. You are a strange friend of the Russians, if you consider them someone's "protectorate". As the great commander Iskander Two-Horned said, "God, take away secret enemies-friends from me, and I will somehow get rid of obvious ones myself."
            2. +1
              January 4 2013
              Interesting version. It seems like you need to open the bottle, think over wink
            3. xan
              0
              January 4 2013
              delirium
              what is "oprichnina" you do not know
      2. +5
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Alexej
        . Why, then, after Gorbachev’s liberation from colonial oppression, did these colonies not live better?

        And we poured all the blood from them during the time of colonization, but no other donor was found.
  24. Etna
    +10
    January 3 2013
    The hypocrisy and meanness of the former fraternal peoples does not climb into any gate: they themselves live here, work, have a business (moreover, criminal or, at best, semi-criminal), and in their homeland they teach their children how to hate Russia. The young generation will grow up on these wonderful textbooks and will come to Russia to multiply, plunder and seize, being fully confident that they are taking revenge for the dignity trampled by the "colonialists" ...
  25. +3
    January 3 2013
    Happy New Year Guys!

    Well what will I say! in the 4 and 5 classes they don’t teach the story of the relations between Russia and Georgia! 8-th class begins but how to say very little!
    in the 11 and in the 12 class the study of the Russian and Georgian relations begins! there is both negative and positive about these relationships!

    Well, history is not an exact science! as you want so rewrite! and there is propaganda!
    1. +2
      January 3 2013
      The story is SCIENCE when it affirms the truth, that is, what it was as it really is and why, and provides convincing evidence for this. If it is corresponded, not negotiated, ignores the facts, adjusts conjuncturally, leads speculative evidence, then this is not SCIENCE.
      1. +2
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Jura
        The story is SCIENCE when it affirms the truth, that is, what it was as it really is and why, and provides convincing evidence for this. If it is corresponded, not negotiated, ignores the facts, adjusts conjuncturally, leads speculative evidence, then this is not SCIENCE.

        then history is not a science! because everyone is writing a story from different starons!
        someone writes good facts or They make up
        Someone writes bad facts or They make up
        very very little write in real life what happened !!!
        proof of? and who needs it?
        example: in 2022 I will write one story! how Saakashvili on August 9 blew up a Russian T-74 tank with an AK-90, and when he was in Gori he saw a Russian samalot, he ran to the car to take a pulimot to shoot down the enemy, but on the way he stumbled and fell! and the guards thought he was scared. "
        need a sense of fantasy and all!
        1. +3
          January 3 2013
          Quote: GEOKING95
          then history is not a science! because everyone is writing a story from different starons!
          someone writes good facts or They make up
          Someone writes bad facts or They make up

          Yes, this is just not science, but rather stories for people to see events as the author wants it.
          Quote: GEOKING95
          very very little write in real life what happened !!!
          But from this a real historian as a scientist will write his story.
          Quote: GEOKING95
          proof of? and who needs it?
          How does this need this, YOU need it if we talk about you, WE need it if we talk about us. After all, whatever happens, it happens in front of our neighbors who see everything, or are direct participants in the events that concern them, so that to respect yourself not from fictional stories and not become a laughing stock for other people, the truth is needed no matter what it is. Such Saakashvili come and go, but the people remain and still will not know whether he will thank him or curse him.
          1. +2
            January 3 2013
            Quote: Jura
            How does this need this, YOU need it if we talk about you, WE need it if we talk about us. After all, whatever happens, it happens in front of our neighbors who see everything, or are direct participants in the events that concern them, so that to respect yourself not from fictional stories and not become a laughing stock for other people, the truth is needed no matter what it is. Such Saakashvili come and go, but the people remain and still will not know whether he will thank him or curse him.

            yes you are 100% right!
            1. +2
              January 3 2013
              I am glad that we found words in order to understand each other.
  26. +13
    January 3 2013
    if we are so bad-these chocks do not let everyone just come to us, let the streets of revenge go to each other, I'm shocked by their arrogance-you feed these creatures, they also knock under your breath, black creatures ...
    1. Green 413-1685
      +12
      January 3 2013
      What kind of you are intolerant, just cut the truth in the eye)) Handshake admins ent do not like it)) I half a year ago I reminded a couple of figures from the solar republics (Uz and Az) how they expelled the Russian-speaking population in late 80 and early 90, like trains were stoned with stones, as if in a crowd they had beaten to death the Russians on the street, etc. So they told me that it turns out there was nothing of the kind, and I came up with everything. And admins so again at a time (!) Heels slammed warnings))) So you take the risk))
    2. Nurker
      -7
      January 3 2013
      Quote: sasha 19871987
      if we are so bad-these chocks do not let everyone just come to us, let the streets of revenge go to each other, I'm shocked by their arrogance-you feed these creatures, they also knock under your breath, black creatures ...


      So you begin to show your true face of colonialism
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +5
        January 3 2013
        You are mistaken. This face is not colonialism (spelling preserved), but isolationism. What is wrong with isolationism?
        If you studied types of states and studied imperialism in detail, you should know that, for example, the Russian Empire is not an empire as such, and the Soviet Union is not an empire, so it is impossible to talk about Russia's colonial policy as a discriminatory and parasitic policy, since this is not corresponds to historical reality.
        1. Nurker
          -5
          January 3 2013
          Please, give links or literature, so that I can find out \ read your version

          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny

          You are mistaken. This face is not colonialism (spelling preserved), but isolationism. What is wrong with isolationism? If you taught the types of states and studied imperialism in detail, you should know that, for example, the Russian Empire is not an empire as such, and the Soviet Union is not an empire, thus talking about Russia's colonial policy as discriminatory and parasitic impossible, since this does not correspond to historical reality.


          http://www.sdelanounih.ru/rossiya-kak-unikalnaya-civilizaciya-i-kultura/
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +2
            January 3 2013
            http://www.sdelanounih.ru/rossiya-kak-unikalnaya-civilizaciya-i-kultura/- В.Кожинов "Россия как уникальная цивилизация и культура". К чему эту публикацию вы привели?
            Quote: nurker
            Please, give links or literature, so that I can find out \ read your version

            Version of what?
      2. +6
        January 3 2013
        Quote: nurker
        So you begin to show your true face of colonialism

        Yes, this is not a manifestation of colonial ideas, just tired of when they begin to live in a strange monastery by their own charter. And the most surprising thing is that when we try to put in place, not by action, but in a word, they are credited with inciting ethnic hatred, Nazism and other evil things. But there is one good saying - "Feel at home, but do not forget that you are visiting! ".
  27. +10
    January 3 2013
    If Russia is so bad, how can one explain that the so-called "enslaved peoples" so zealously asked for the Russian Empire (Georgia, Ukraine, for example), although of course modern history scribes do not take this into account or call these facts propaganda. At the same time, the Georgians forget that such a conqueror as Tamerlane passed Georgia along and across with fire and sword. And later, under Catherine II, the very existence of Georgia was called into question. Yes, and Ukraine could remember something, and along with other "enslaved peoples", but they prefer to shyly keep silent about this.
    1. -6
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Alekseir162
      At the same time, Georgians forget that such a conqueror as Tamerlane walked Georgia along and across with fire and a sword

      but to the end he could not conquer
      and after tamerlane united Georgia existed, it regained strength and again became a power, but 1490 fell apart for the feudal lords!
      Quote: Alekseir162
      under Catherine II, the very existence of Georgia was called into question.

      St. George's tract was signed 1783 year! and the Iranians attacked us in the 1795 year, Russia did not help us, then I remembered the sense of the obligation he gave!
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +3
        January 3 2013
        And what does it mean?


        Quote: GEOKING95
        after tamerlan

        Why are you so a commander with a small letter, Iron Lamer, he is Tamerlane deserved to have his name written with a capital letter, especially since he really went through the whole of Georgia "with fire and sword" (I am not talking about conquest, since conquering after the past campaigns of Genghis Khan's warriors, especially there was nothing).
        1. +1
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          Why are you so commander with a small letter

          forgot to put a capital letter, sorry!
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          And what does it mean?

          the fact that the story should not be read from one side!
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +2
            January 3 2013
            No one argues that the sign of objectivity is versatility. However, what is written in the textbooks on the history of some CIS countries about the role of Russia in their development as an occupier and aggressor does not pretend to be objective.
            Here's how your opinion on issues such as the Russian Empire helped the Georgian Kingdoms or not? Were the interests of Georgians ensured in Soviet Georgia or not? Is the Russian People a fraternal Georgian?
            1. +1
              January 3 2013
              Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
              Here's how your opinion on issues such as the Russian Empire helped the Georgian Kingdoms or not? Were the interests of Georgians ensured in Soviet Georgia or not? Is the Russian People a fraternal Georgian?

              It helped and saved, no one would argue about it! but the time of salvation was long! in our textbooks both good is written and bad!
              2) yeah were besides the Abkhaz and Ossetian autonomous regions
              3) yes! soldiers and civilians die a warrior and politics sit well in their seats! The friendship of peoples is not indestructible!

        2. Yarbay
          0
          January 6 2013
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          he Tamerlane deserved to have his name written with a capital letter, especially since he really went through the whole of Georgia "with fire and sword"

          *** The Great Tamerlan said: History will not forgive me 2 things: 1) The fact that I wanted to destroy the Armenians as an ethnic group, and the second, because I did not do this !!! True, there are good people among Armenians, but on the whole the people are ugly. She will never express her thoughts in the face, which is why it seems cultural, but in a convenient case she will kill !! ***
          Of course, a controversial statement, but either really Great or just did not know what he was saying!
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            0
            January 7 2013
            Quote: Yarbay
            *** The Great Tamerlan said: History will not forgive me 2 things: 1) The fact that I wanted to destroy the Armenians as an ethnic group, and the second, because I did not do this !!! True, there are good people among Armenians, but on the whole the people are ugly. She will never express her thoughts in the face, which is why it seems cultural, but in a convenient case she will kill !! ***
            Of course, a controversial statement, but either really Great or just did not know what he was saying!

            He will not be reproached with Iron Khromts, but he hardly knew such terms as ethnos, cultural and other linguists from a clearly intelligent definition, and besides, such dry European proposals are not in the tradition of the East.
            P / S That you are so indifferent to the Armenians, how much time has passed, because they too can remember the Armenian genocide and other mutual insults, try to build friendly relations with them and your insults will go down in history. Armenians and Azerbaijanis live in the Russian Federation, and I personally have never heard that they are at war with us.
  28. +5
    January 3 2013
    Everyone says that we lost the war, I have a more optimistic view on this issue — we lost the battle, but not the war. Yes, they lost part of the territory, but could lose much more. If the war were lost, then Russia, as we know it now, would not exist. And what is taught in the schools of the listed, former, republics is nothing more than an attempt to get rid of a complex that is not full-value and an excuse for the failure of local authorities. Please forgive me the citizens of these countries that are present on this site. In no way do I want to offend you. I am talking about those scoundrel dogs that, with their dirty hands, extinct that bright and great that was in our common history.
    1. Nurker
      -6
      January 3 2013
      The third war should not be a war, but rather should unite the whole world. You have to fight for it.
      1. +2
        January 3 2013
        Exactly! And what are you, my friend, you are doing everything in order not only to connect us, but also to quarrel on the contrary. What will you fight with sabers in the 3rd world? All the same, run to Russia to bow. fool
        1. Focuser
          0
          January 3 2013
          Simon, disconnect and quarrel us to a greater extent you. Very good unpleasant to read expressions like "Anyway, run to Russia to bow"..
          Imagine that we live in neighboring houses and you say such words to me: anyway, run to bow to me .. What will be your attitude after that, what do you think? You can’t talk to your neighbors like that. Only to the detriment you say.
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            0
            January 3 2013
            It all depends on the levels of the neighbors. If you live, for example, in a one-room apartment and drive a not very new Passat, and your neighbor who told you this in a 10-room apartment and has a solid car garage, then he is unlikely to be interested in your attitude to him.
            1. Focuser
              +3
              January 3 2013
              Your example is out of place. This does not look like Russia and Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan is very important for Russia, as is Russia for Kazakhstan. Therefore, it is not clear why you gave such an example. Probably wanted to hurt? Moreover, relations with neighbors (any) are always important, there’s nothing to argue about.
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +6
                January 3 2013
                You were told the many-sided nature of the problem of "neighbors in houses", in terms of the fact that your example is not successful.
                As for the importance of a country, it is necessary to look at their relationship in a constructive way, if the officials of one country allow some mildly ambiguous statements addressed to another, so the citizens of another country and their officials have the right to be indignant.

                “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”the President of Kazakhstan N. Nazarbayev said at the ceremony of raising the flag of the Turkic Council as part of the Kazakh-Turkish business forum in Istanbul (KAZAKHINFORM).
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +2
                  January 7 2013
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”said the President of Kazakhstan N. Nazarbayev.

                  Well, what offended you? The fact that the Russian Empire and the USSR were called colonial states? In Soviet times, Soviet history textbooks themselves openly wrote that Russia was a colonizer and a predator in Turkestan. Che is here to be pity, take any work on the topic, published in the Soviet period. From an economic point of view, Kazakhstan was a colony in Soviet times, although it was not officially called that way. We were not even allowed to have our own leader, which later resulted in the December 1986 events. The Kazakh language and culture was driven below the plinth into the Kazakh SSR, so that the Russian immigrants were "more comfortable". The economy of the Kazakh SSR consisted almost entirely of the raw materials industry. We did not produce anything for a normal person, only resources - oil and gas, metals and so on - were mined. Can you name the brand of Kazakhstani cars, planes, TVs from the Kazakh SSR? 90% of our entire industry was focused on raw materials. The rest is a bit of light industry, food industry and defense industry. Moreover, the Kazakh SSR was a donor of the union budget, not a recipient, i.e. the republic gave more than it received. And what she received did little to benefit the Kazakhs - more money was spent on military infrastructure, training grounds, a mining and metallurgical complex (whose products were mainly sent to the RSFSR) and infrastructure for their own settlers from the European part of the USSR.
                  Maybe you were outraged by the fact that Nazarbayev allegedly lied about the fact that the Kazakhs almost lost their language, customs and religion? There was only one Kazakh school in Alma-Ata during Soviet times. Is this not a sign of Russification? Yes, there were Kazakh schools in the villages. Only where could the graduates of the Kazakh aul schools go, if even in the Kazakh SSR universities mainly taught in RUSSIAN? In fact, in order to get an education, it was necessary to Russify from childhood. During the decades of Soviet power, the Kazakh language was driven under the bed, and any attempt to raise it was classified as "nationalism." Even the poet and linguist Olzhas Suleimenov, who spent more energy on historical works about the Russian language than all Russian philologists of the last three decades, and he was persecuted as a "Kazakh nationalist" in the 70s-80s just because he discovered a layer of Turkic vocabulary in old Russian texts. Don't play the fool by denying all these facts.
                  Bekmakhanov's textbook on the history of Kazakhstan was banned, and the author himself received 25 years in camps only for calling the last Kazakh khan Kenesary Kasymov a fighter for the freedom of Kazakhs against tsarism (and with Leninist-Stalinist expressions). After the liberation in the 50s, the "re-educated" historian already writes that Kenesary was a byaka, and ordinary Kazakhs could not wait for a Russian immigrant who would teach them agriculture ... This is how Kazakhstan was a "non-colonial" part of Russia and THE USSR. You also say that Kazakhstan had a representation in the UN, or Moscow allegedly kicked its ass in Kazakh collective farms, building hospitals and theaters there. Perhaps a selmag and a club. And even then for the money that the collective farms earned for the state budget. Fortunately, half of the state ate Kazakh grain and meat.
                  So what specifically angers you in the quoted message?
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +1
                    January 7 2013
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Moreover, the Kazakh SSR was a donor of the Union budget, and not a recipient, i.e. the republic gave more than it received. And what they received was not good for the Kazakhs — they spent more money on military infrastructure, training grounds, the mining and metallurgical complex (whose products mainly went to the RSFSR) and infrastructure for their own settlers from the European part of the USSR.

                    You have probably forgotten that the Kazakh SSR was part of the USSR, and was its equal republic. Was the standard of living of Kazakhs in the USSR "below the floor", or were they "discriminated against" in their own union republic? No. Regarding the issue of donation, do not forget that during the Soviet era, more than half of the population of the Kazakh SSR were Eastern Slavs, whose work also made up the budget of the Kazakh SSR, they were employed in metallurgy, science-intensive areas, and worked in the village farm. Or is it not so?
                    The main donor in the USSR was the RSFSR (due to its entire economy), the Union budget of the BSSR (for electronics), the Azerbaijan SSR (due to oil) were also subsidized. The Kazakh SSR did not subsidize, but transferred part of the funds to the national budget, for the Union needs, if you have other information, please provide them?
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    That the Russian Empire and the USSR were called colonial states? In Soviet times, Soviet history textbooks themselves openly wrote that Russia was a colonizer and predator in Turkestan. Che here to feel bad, take any work on the topic published in the Soviet period. From an economic point of view, Kazakhstan was a colony in Soviet times, although that was not officially called so.

                    The poor RSFSR granted the Kyrgyz-Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic independence by making it a union republic, and also transferred to Kazakhstan Russian South Siberia, where the main population is Russians, Tatars and Bashkirs. A strange step for the invaders. But the Russian Federation does not claim this territory right now, although it has the full historical right to it, but it would be somehow not friendly to the fraternal Kazakh Republic. For this reason, the PRC claims to all of southern and eastern Kazakhstan, calling them historically Chinese territories.
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Well, and what offended you?

                    Who exactly me or someone else?
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    And even then for the money that the collective farms earned for the state budget. Fortunately, Kazakh grain and half-power meat were nourished.

                    I don’t deny it. Dear, you will first compare the size of animal husbandry and agriculture in the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR, with the Kazakh SSR, and then assert that "half of the state" ate meat and grain from one of your union republics.
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Is that a selmag and a club.

                    A significant oversight of the Union Center, in this I agree with you. At that time, in fact, in all cities and towns of the RSFSR, skyscrapers had long been towered, discos, supermarkets, theaters worked around the clock, and all the inhabitants of my Beautiful Country drove around in ZIL-117. There was a time. Plus you for being reminded. ZIL is now in the garage, now you can't get spare parts for it. But you are not familiar with such a machine. If you ever do, I am sure to appreciate the design and power of this "Russian Road Dreadnought".
                    1. Marek Rozny
                      0
                      January 10 2013
                      1) Yes, the standard of living in the Kazakh SSR was significantly lower than in European republics. Especially among the Kazakhs, who were traditionally a rural population. With all the consequences. By 1991, about 70% of the population of Kazakhstan lived in villages, engaged in agriculture. Moscow was not interested in the fact that the Kazakhs were urbanized, Moscow needed the Kazakhs as farmers. You can see how many cars or TVs were in the USSR by republic per capita, there are such numbers.
                      2) The Eastern Slavs in Kazakhstan are migrant workers, in modern terms, aimed not at improving the living standards of the Kazakhs, but in the name of the economic interests of the USSR. Moscow needed plants of the MMC - they were built. Why now the Kazakhs should thank for the fact that these plants were built at home is not clear. If these plants were built purely for the Kazakh SSR and their profits went to the republican budget, it would be understandable. And it’s just a means of pumping the wealth of the republic for other regions, primarily for the RSFSR, which needed Kazakh metal, coal, uranium and more. If the plant’s products are shipped to Russia, and Kazakhstan has nothing to do with this, then why give thanks? But here on the forum, most Russians are convinced that the Kazakhs should be grateful to the Russians. For what? For the plants that pumped raw materials from their republic? For the built cities for the Russian immigrants? Under Khrushchev, the snuffled Akmolinsk from the Kazakh city became the Russian (but no less snuffled) Tselinograd, in which the Kazakhs themselves suddenly found themselves in the overwhelming minority - about 10% of the population. Was it rebuilt for the Kazakhs, or for 90% of the newly arrived virgin lands Slavs? What to thank for? Do you thank the Tajiks for the fact that somewhere in the suburbs they rounded off a block for themselves?
                      All Kazakhstani industry was assigned to the Union ministries in view of their universal strategic importance, and not to the republican ministries. According to this scenario, it turns out that the Kazakh SSR did not mine coal or uranium at all, but ... the city of Moscow. Just like now, some Yakutia is put up as a subsidized region in the same way, because all of its main organizations are still registered in Moscow, and not in Yakutsk. But a hedgehog is understandable that Siberian regions actually make up the entire budget of Russia! In the same way, Kazakhstan is allegedly being parasite of the USSR.
                      3) The RSFSR did not give us independence. The Kazakhs had this right to the union republics, and achieved this status in the 30s. And where would Russia go, given that smaller peoples received such a status, and the Kazakhs were the largest Turkic ethnic group in the USSR, even in terms of numbers, I no longer remember the geography. The decision was made personally by Stalin, who grabbed his head when he found out about the admitted "distortions", as he put it, which the leadership of the RSFSR had done by sending Goloshchekin and other "nimble" Bolsheviks here, who spent "Small October" in the Kazakh village, as a result of which the population of the Kazakh ASSR has halved in two years! Thanks to Stalin then, but by no means to the then leadership of the RSFSR, which I hope is now being fried in hell.
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        January 10 2013
                        4) And the main population of "Southern Siberia" by the time these territories were finally assigned to the formed Kazakh SSR were mainly inhabited by Kazakhs, and not Russians or others. Take the population census for each uezd and region, from 1897 to the first Soviet ones. Then maybe you will stop living in myths. At the same time, Omsk and Orenburg, inhabited by Kazakhs, were taken from the Kazakhs. But artificially created buffers between the Turks of Turkestan, the Volga region and Siberia.
                        5) China does not officially have any territorial claims against Kazakhstan. All controversial issues were completely closed back in the 90s.
                        6) The size of livestock can be easily compared. Especially per capita. How many Ukrainians or Russians collected bread, they ate the same amount. But not enough. That's why millions tons of grain and meat went from KZ to European republics. Have you already forgotten that even in Canada Moscow had to buy grain? Yes, even under Luzhkov, half of the bread in Moscow was from Kazakh grain. This is only the last few years, as Russia began to produce grain normally.
                        7) As for the selmags - well, sorry, Duc, Russian collective farms were completely unprofitable (except for the Orenburg region, Tatarstan and some other regions). They couldn't even feed themselves. And another thing is the Kazakh collective farm, which fed itself and sent food to its neighbor. As a gritsa, all collective farms received the same, but the collective farms gave differently. Where's the justice? And the Russians also reproach us for allegedly hanging on the neck of Russia! When Russia received food from us, and not vice versa. Where was the Bolshevik principle "from each according to his ability, to each according to his work"? Consciously or unconsciously, everything was done to the detriment of Kazakhstan. Well, God bless him. But how can we not start here, when today they begin to accuse us that we are supposedly hicks, such ungrateful, all our lives hung on the neck of the Russian people ?! The Russian village, neither under Khrushchev, nor under Brezhnev, nor under Gorby, nor under Yeltsin, simply could not feed itself corny. Why compare with a Kazakh village?
                        Z.Y. Why banter about the Seagull? The fact that I am from Kazakhstan means that I am a savage who did not see Seagull in my eyes?
          2. +2
            January 4 2013
            Because, having separated from Russia, you have reduced our common potential for the development and production of weapons, your geniuses, who became Great people in the USSR, will remain "grazing sheep." By separating, you have reduced our overall defense potential. You do not bear the costs of developing new technology, you do not contain a nuclear triad, but at the same time you receive military equipment from Russia and are under a nuclear umbrella.
            1. Marek Rozny
              +3
              January 7 2013
              Quote: Setrac
              Because, having separated from Russia, you have reduced our common potential for the development and production of weapons, your geniuses, who became Great people in the USSR, will remain "grazing sheep." By separating, you have reduced our overall defense potential. You do not bear the costs of developing new technology, you do not contain a nuclear triad, but at the same time you receive military equipment from Russia and are under a nuclear umbrella.

              Dreamer...
              1) Russia seceded from the USSR earlier than the Kazakh SSR or Kyrgyzstan. Russia, under the Yeltsin flag, jumped out of the Soviet Union. I don’t know where you lived in 1991, but I’m in the RSFSR, and I remember well that Nazarbayev tried to preserve the Soviet Union (albeit in a modernized form), but Russia, that politicians, that ordinary residents were buzzing, “Fuck this scoop, there is nothing to feed the other republics! " And now the Kazakhs are accused of allegedly separating from the common country ??? Where is the logic?
              2) How did the Kazakhs reduce the Russian potential in the military industry? You constantly write that Kazakhs are sheep herders, what is the damage from the fact that there are no Kazakh military "inventors" in Russia? Or are you freaking out over the fact that instead of "Disneylands" in steppe Kazakhstan, plants for the production of sea torpedoes (from Kazakh metal and other raw materials) and landfills were poked? So write that we need Kazakhstan as a raw material appendage, from which we take lead for bullets and in their steppe we need to detonate bombs. Write in your own words that the entire role of Kazakhstan in the defense industry of the Empire is a testing ground and raw materials for military factories. And nothing else is needed from us. Why hide behind phrases about the mythical "theaters and hospitals in the villages"? Come on, tell us how the Kazakhs blew up the Russian defense industry.
              3) We received a nuclear umbrella (which was forged from Kazakh uranium, because uranium is not mined in Russia) not only from Russia, but also from Western countries and the United States. And not for pretty eyes, but for disarming. Let me remind you that in the 90s Kazakhstan possessed the third nuclear potential in the world. Moscow itself tearfully asked Kazakhstan to give nuclear weapons stuck in the Kazakh steppe in exchange for the promise of an "umbrella". Why are you again blaming us for what you yourself have done? Are you writing completely drunk?
              4) No military equipment for the needs of the Kazakh army we don’t get free, and pay with real money without loans and delays. Moreover, he met with the factory workers at the Uralvagonzavod in Cadex, they directly pray to God that Kazakhstan would continue to buy goods from them. Exaggerate about God, but the meaning is this. So calm down. Kazakhs pay money for Russian weapons. And even experimental samples like BMPT are ready to buy. You can’t piss that the Kazakhs allegedly undermined the Russian defense industry. On the contrary, we give her orders for new items and repair of junk. Your freebie will not get us in the throat, you excreted bricks from the fact of the purchase, and what would happen to you if you really gave us at least one pistol free then - in general, I would have torn all my hair out of my head :))))
              1. Beck
                +1
                January 7 2013
                Quote: Setrac
                You do not bear the costs of developing new equipment, do not contain a nuclear triad, but you get military equipment from Russia and are under a nuclear umbrella.


                Yes, we do not bear the costs of nuclear weapons, since we refused to own them in the early 90s.

                Kazakhstan is not only under the "umbrella" of Russia. For the voluntary abandonment of the available nuclear weapons (inherited from the USSR), Kazakhstan was guaranteed territorial integrity, assistance in the event of external aggression. The guarantors of such obligations are Russia, the USA, China.
              2. Ingvald_Bueny
                0
                January 7 2013
                I agree with you. Russia is a Great Empire, a Superpower. If for you personally Marek it is bad your personal problems.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +7
                  January 10 2013
                  Russia, in which Russia alone is not the Empire and not the Super Power, but the state of the second league. Do not wishful thinking. We will be an empire when there will be not only Russians, but also Kazakhs, Ukrainians, Caucasians and others.
                  Secondly, for me the USSR is not bad, but Russian chauvinists who are ready to crap any doubt about the correctness of the popular print "The Russian people are sinless and ideal, and the rest are garbage on a stick."
                  Russia would not even have been able to create a CU without the Kazakhs until Nazarbayev 20 fucked up your Kremlin on this issue. Shut the mouths of your half-witted Nazis, and even Saakashvili and Tymoshenko will be the first to queue up in the Eurasian Union. In the meantime, the Kazakhs are struggling with two versatile feelings - the desire to re-create the Empire (a couple of years ago, most Russians did not even want to hear anything about the CU, the Eurasian Union, but today whoever you don't take - everyone pretends that they have dreamed of such integration all their lives), and the second feeling is unwillingness to communicate with Russian losers, xenophobes. Any Kazakh can hardly restrain himself from becoming a Nazi in relation to the Russians when he sees the Russian forums. The fact that the Russians have slipped into semi-fascism is a byword even in the conversations of ethnic Russian Kazakhs. You are so used to it that you do not even notice how much your society is saturated with this poison. An empire is not a place where one nation dominates, but where citizenship dominates. I do not need a Eurasian Union with the dominance of the Russian people again. As well as a Ukrainian or a Georgian. What is not clear to you? The Kazakhs finally pushed you to the beginning of the integration processes, and you again spoil everything with your Russian chauvinism. Kazakh needs a Eurasian Union, where the nationality or religion of each citizen will really not matter. We are the Horde. We have been living since the time of the Turkic Kaganate (the first empire on the territory of modern Russia - 5th century) in empires throughout our history. Understand that the phrases inside the Empire "we - the Mauritans fed you, or we djurbunians pulled you out of shit, or our Lului people are the greatest in the world, and you - the Chimpo people - should be forever grateful to us" - idiocy for building an empire. That's not how empires are built. They just fall apart. (And you don't need to catch me, what I wrote about how Kazakhstan sent grain and meat to the RSFSR. I wrote this to reason with the crowd of shouts “Kazakhs are ungrateful and incapable of anything!” To show that Kazakhstan invested everything, that he could and could not in general development, and did not sit on the neck of the Russian people, in which 9/10 members of the forum firmly believe here). You cannot even be proud of your Caucasian athletes. The entire Internet was clogged during the Olympics with swinish expressions addressed to them. And do you still think that most Russians are capable of imperialism? You confuse chauvinism with imperialism. An empire is where a Russian will cry with pride at the sight of a Dagestani champion at the Olympics, where a Chechen will beat a Turk in Istanbul for insulting a Russian tourist. That's where the Empire is.
                  1. postman
                    +1
                    January 11 2013
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    for me the USSR is not bad, but Russian chauvinists who are ready to crap any doubt about the correctness of the popular print "The Russian people are sinless and perfect, and the rest are garbage on a stick."

                    Bravo Marek. All right.
                    Mikhail Afanasevich Bulgakov has long been diagnosed

                    [media = http: //vk.com/video52690521_161584731? hd = -1 & t =]

                    [media = http: //vk.com/video62582661_161195249? hd = -1 & t =]

                    From the following:
                    He was in Alma-Ata (now Alma-Ata) twice in 1989, in 1990. At the same time, he had some minor conflict with ethnic Kazakhs. So what ? Now we communicate normally
                    They were the same with purebred Russians in the outback.
                    Was in practice in Tyura-Tam (Baikonur-Leninsk), 2 months.
                    Talked again. I have not experienced any problems.

                    Yes and no them, if not invented.

                    "One must be, not seem," that's all.
                    For me Although everyone is equal (equal), but not all are the same. And we must take this into account


                    An ethnic Russian, whom I know, cannot be dragged into the Russian Federation from AA by any means.

                    and so in Kazakhstan:
                    VAT less
                    Social (taxes) less.
                    Income tax is less.
                    Russia spoiled you with duties (Auto from Kyrgyzstan)
            2. postman
              +1
              January 10 2013
              Quote: Setrac
              Because, having separated from Russia, you have reduced our overall potential for the development and production of weapons

              You at least read a recent story, that would not carry nonsense.

              Kazakhstan was the last in general
    2. +2
      January 3 2013
      Lyokha79, correctly said, I support you.
  29. +4
    January 3 2013
    Alexander Romanov

    Want to say that we lost to whom? If you are talking about the victory of the United States in a cold warrior, then this is a feast of victory, and it’s difficult to call it such. Now analyzing what is happening and who is winning, the West is in flames, and Russia is gaining momentum.
    The Germans stood at the walls of Moscow and also talked about victory, but in the end ................

    It is a pity that only one plus could be delivered to you! Five points on a five-point, you understand what I mean!
  30. +2
    January 3 2013
    The history adopted in the "independent" republics can be seen as an indicator of Russia's influence. At the moment, where the Russians are exposed as invaders, the influence is minimal. The situation will change, and the textbooks will also change.
  31. mamba
    +4
    January 3 2013
    The proclamation of the ancient Azerbaijanis by the contemporaries of the Sumerians is intended to substantiate the thesis: "Modern Armenia arose on the territory of ancient Western Azerbaijan."
    Self-identification with some ancient peoples living in the territory of this state, with which there was no and there was no ethnic continuity, is a usual historical speculation for idiots. Even the wise Chinese agreed to the point that they allegedly did not come from homo sapiens, but from homo erectus. laughing This was done to justify their special path in history and in the world. Not even too lazy to conduct an extensive genetic study among all ethnic groups in China. The result, of course, was negative: not a single person with a marker gene from homo erectus was found. negative
    Claims on the territory that once occupied some empires with which one so desires to identify themselves are completely untenable and destructive. This is for inferior, always complexing. negative Take the example from the Greeks or the Mongols. Here are the right guys. good
    1. -2
      January 3 2013
      Quote: mamba
      The proclamation of the ancient Azerbaijanis by the contemporaries of the Sumerians is intended to substantiate the thesis: "Modern Armenia arose on the territory of ancient Western Azerbaijan."

      It is not indicated in which particular book it is written. In my memory, this has not been seen in school textbooks. I would like specifics from the author.
      1. Yarbay
        -3
        January 3 2013
        Quote: Yeraz
        It is not indicated in which particular book it is written. In my memory, this has not been seen in school textbooks. I would like specifics from the author.

        This phrase is taken out of context !! - old Armenian tricks !!
        If you remember, at the request of the RSFSR and other countries of the Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, in 20 years he handed over to Armenia Zengesur and Yerevan, so that Armenia had a capital !!
    2. Nurker
      -7
      January 3 2013
      Quote: mamba
      The proclamation of the ancient Azerbaijanis by the contemporaries of the Sumerians is intended to substantiate the thesis: "Modern Armenia arose on the territory of ancient Western Azerbaijan


      And the proclamation of the ancient Russian by contemporaries of the Aryans, and even more so since the Russian people are God's chosen people, what is this?
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +6
        January 3 2013
        Who officially proclaimed this? There is no such information in the official textbooks of Russian history. And if someone has written author's literature, so what you wanted, in Russia freedom of speech, the basic principle of democracy. But one thing when they write "gag", when the history textbook, that is, the official opinion of the state for its citizens, agree these are different things.
  32. +13
    January 3 2013
    I am touched by SARs ... such as Kazakhstan ... Kurgizstan ... and others were raw materials appendages of Russia, cool. Their historians not only do not know the most recent history, but they didn’t remember what happened a couple of decades ago. Yeah, raw appendages ... Grandfather Nikita distributed the native Russian lands to feed these aboriginal parasites, to date them at least by the budget of the USSR, and not to contain them at 100%. Now they are indignant, like ... why RUSSIAN names of villages on their historical land. their memory is full of holes, well, what can I say, naturally ... as well as about their guides of Western values ​​... amerikosov ... WELL Dumb. Now about their greatness ... well, they are again turning to their occupiers for service ... now to Russia ... well, they would raise their greatness in a self-conscious national homeland.
    1. Nurker
      -7
      January 3 2013
      Who else is serving the Americans? Who is the first to copy everything American? Who is America's first lawmaker? who is getting dumb thanks to American programs and films?
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +1
        January 3 2013
        You asked an interesting question. So who is this?
        1. Nurker
          -1
          January 3 2013
          Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
          You asked an interesting question. So who is this?


          It turns out the Russian Federation and begins to copy everything, the television elite, Our Rush, Happy together, Soldiers and more.

          And this is not a propaganda of Western values ​​or, in extreme cases, disguise as such values.

          Look how humiliated these Jamsut and Ravshan are, and how humble the Central Asian people are shown.

          Tony Blair, Tony Blair, they were hooked on him not as a person, but as a former Anglo-Saxon, and the Anglo-Saxon is an enemy of the Russian Empire - such views are actively built by Khazin, Starikov and other politically deluded people. "They killed, so pray that we haven't killed you yet" - is this what Russian members of the forum want to say?
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            +3
            January 3 2013
            Your goal is probably to bring discord between the Russians and Kazakhstanis as much as possible.
      2. +3
        January 3 2013
        Quote: nurker
        Who else is serving the Americans? Who is the first to copy everything American? Who is America's first lawmaker? who is getting dumb thanks to American programs and films?

        Who sold factories to foreigners for a penny? Who is the former Prime Minister of England as advisor? "who gets dumb with American programming and movies?" laughing
        1. Nurker
          -3
          January 3 2013
          Quote: tan0472
          Who sold factories to foreigners for a penny? Who is the former Prime Minister of England as advisor? "who gets dumb with American programming and movies?"


          And what if I have an iphone Will you say that all Kazakhstanis have an iphone?

          Are you laughing at yourself?
          1. 0
            January 3 2013
            Quote: nurker
            Are you laughing at yourself?

            I wanted to tell you that there is nothing to blame for the other, if the very face is crooked. You wrote
            Quote: nurker
            Who else is serving the Americans? Who is the first to copy everything American? Who is America's first lawmaker? who is getting dumb thanks to American programs and films?

            And if you want to throw off the blinders from your eyes - type in YouTube - "Nazarbayev Aliyev" and you will understand a lot (probably). hi
        2. Marek Rozny
          +1
          January 7 2013
          Kazakhstan in 1991 did not have money. At all. Gold reserves remained in Moscow, and by 1993 the republic was drowned in Soviet banknotes, which were carried in KZ wagons. Yeltsin deceived Alma-Ata to the last about a single ruble zone, and in 1993 declared that new rubles were only Russian money, and let Kazakhstan scramble out Kazakhstan with tons of Soviet cash. How did you pay your salary? Soviet banknotes that were brought to us from all over the former USSR? The plants got up. And not from a good life, we had to give in to their foreigners, and lure investors. After all, the country was paralyzed. There was inflation in Russia, but the Russians did not even dream of the ass that happened in the financial sector of neighboring Kazakhstan. People began to flee the country. What the fuck is the national question, when there really was nothing to eat. Investors from the West we needed like air to re-launch our economy. An unpleasant fact for us, but what was, was. Kazakhstan mined a lot of gold, but everything settled in Moscow, and we had only a hole in our pockets. What are we to blame for now? We first printed the currency in debt from the British. They collected everything that they could give them for the first banknote, and then they printed it on credit. But then they got on their feet and showed investors who is the boss in the house. Read on the internet how Westerners are now crying for cruel Kazakh orders. We used to clatter with them, but now we ourselves will invest in anyone we want. Just six months ago, the Hungarian leadership came to Kazakhstan to ask for money. Although where were the Hungarians 10 years ago, and where are the Kazakhs.
          Well, Blair gets our salary, just like Schroeder feeds from Russia :)))) We also have lobbyists in the White House in the USA, and this is no secret :)))))
          Well, as for the films - look at the products of Kazakhfilm - we ourselves make good films - "Farah", "Gift to Stalin", "Shal" - and compare with Hollywood consumer goods;)
          1. Ingvald_Bueny
            0
            January 7 2013
            Why did you forget that "The Needle" with V. Tsoi was also filmed in the Kazakh SSR. A gorgeous film, a gorgeous acting game.

            Quote: Marek Rozny
            There was inflation in Russia, but the Russians did not even dream of the ass that happened in the financial sector of neighboring Kazakhstan.

            Are you probably drowsy?
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              January 10 2013
              I was just in Russia at that time too.
    2. Marek Rozny
      +2
      January 7 2013
      Quote: Strashila
      the little one, Nikita, distributed the original Russian lands to feed these aboriginal parasites, to date them at least from the budget of the USSR, and not to contain them at 100%.

      Write down specifically which "Russian" lands were transferred by Khrushchev to Kazakhstan?
      ZY Let me remind you that Kazakhstan was a donor to the union budget, not a parasite. 9 out of 10 bullets during the Second World War were made of Kazakh lead. What would you do without such a parasite ... fought back with your bum-bobs? And who restored the destroyed European part of the RSFSR, Ukraine and Belarus? Kazakhstan sent thousands of people, equipment, money, foodstuffs to eliminate the consequences of the war on your real "ancestral lands". My grandfather Temirzhan Syrlybayev personally rebuilt bombed Moscow from 1946 to 1948 after demobilization. So what? Are Kazakhs shouting about Russian parasites or demanding compensation for the drained resources of the rich Kazakh steppe? Maybe Kazakhs are asking for stew from Semipalatinsk cows to return, which the entire Soviet army ate, scattered from Vietnam to the GDR and Cuba?
      Take it easy. If the Kazakhs show the bill for oil, gas, metals, ores, uranium, meat and grain, then you will start hiccuping until you realize the whole figure.
      1. Ingvald_Bueny
        +1
        January 7 2013
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Write down specifically which "Russian" lands were transferred by Khrushchev to Kazakhstan?
        ZY Let me remind you that Kazakhstan was a donor to the union budget, not a parasite. 9 out of 10 bullets during the Second World War were made of Kazakh lead. What would you do without such a parasite ... fought back with your bum-bobs? And who restored the destroyed European part of the RSFSR, Ukraine and Belarus? Kazakhstan sent thousands of people, equipment, money, foodstuffs to eliminate the consequences of the war on your real "ancestral lands". My grandfather Temirzhan Syrlybayev personally rebuilt bombed Moscow from 1946 to 1948 after demobilization. So what? Are Kazakhs shouting about Russian parasites or demanding compensation for the drained resources of the rich Kazakh steppe? Maybe Kazakhs are asking for stew from Semipalatinsk cows to return, which the entire Soviet army ate, scattered from Vietnam to the GDR and Cuba?
        Take it easy. If the Kazakhs show the bill for oil, gas, metals, ores, uranium, meat and grain, then you will start hiccuping until you realize the whole figure.

        As for your irony about the "Russian" lands, dear, who do you think before the Kazakhs lived on the territory of your Republic, where and in what century did they come and populate it, do you know? So if we talk about purely national territories, then this is not a grateful question.
        On December 5, 1936, the territory of the RSFSR was significantly reduced, since with the adoption of the new constitution of the USSR, the Kazak Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic and the Kyrgyz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic were transformed into the Kazakh and Kyrgyz Soviet Socialist Republics, and the Kara-Kalpak Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was transferred to the Uzbek Soviet Socialist Republic.
        Kazakh SSR in the 1950s of the twentieth century were transferred to the territory of the Orenburg, Astrakhan, part of the territory of the Ural region.
        Regarding how the Kazakh SSR sent thousands of people, we remember and are grateful for this, but do not forget that at that time there were fewer Kazakhs in the Kazakh SSR than everyone else, and it was not the Kazakh SSR that were sent by the people themselves, citizens of the USSR.
        Honor and respect for your grandfather. As for the "bombed-out" Moscow, it's time for you to stop watching Hollywood films, so as not to make people laugh in the comments.
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          January 10 2013
          I know who lived in the Kazakh steppe in historical time. The clan of my mother, "Uisun", has been recorded in the Chinese chronicles since the first millennium BC. The family of my father "Argyn" came to the Kazakh steppes a little later. The movement of the paternal clan is recorded in the Arab, Iranian and Turkic chronicles. The population of Kazakhstan was first Saka, then Hunnish, all this mixed very quickly in a single pot, despite the fact that they were different peoples. Kazakhs are genetically half Saki (Central Scythians), half Turkic. By language they are Türks. I understand that this sounds fantastic for Russians, who usually do not even know what their great-grandfather's name was, but for Kazakhs it is normal to know the history of their own family for many centuries back. So your jokes about who lived in KZ and when - you don't even need to strain, any Kazakh, from a collective farmer to a professor, will tell you what kind of family he is, and where his direct ancestors lived fifteen hundred years ago. That is why the hell who can convince me of the Argyn that South Siberia is supposedly a Russian land, when only the Argyns lived here, and the Naimans and Kereis. At least read the Chinese chronicles, at least the Mongolian, at least study the ancient Turkic rune, at least read the notes of the Vatican ambassadors, which passed through my lands here on the road to Karakorum.
          2) Orenburg region, Astrakhan, Ural region - these are the lands on which the indigenous population are the Kazakhs. And the Russians are recent newcomers. Although for the majority of Russians the events of 1993 are already lost in the depths of history, but by Kazakh standards the Russians came to us "yesterday evening." The regions mentioned are the lands of the Zhagabayla, Nogaila, and Kipchak clans. Who still live there. As well as on the territory of the Russian Federation in the border zone. If the Orenburg region and the Ural region are primordially Russian lands, then where are the Russian names for this very river and its tributaries? I will surprise you, but there is not even a Russian name for the Volga. Volga is a Finnish word, and for Kazakhs-Tatars-Bashkirs it is the sacred river Edil (Ittil, Idel). And where is the Russian original name of the river? Maybe not, because the Russians came to lands that were already inhabited by someone, and they borrowed the names of the mountains and rivers from the local residents - the Finno-Ugric and Turkic peoples? So why the hell to write that these areas are primordially Russian? I don’t call the Baltic Sea primordially Kazakh land. We don't even have our own word for this sea. Well, why do you succumb to the cries of idiots and also begin to demand that the Kazakhs recognize the "generosity" of the Russian people who gave Kazakh lands to the Kazakhs? Yes, the city of Orenburg or Omsk itself was built by the Russians. But in the Kazakh lands. And as military bases, not cities. Why turn everything upside down, and assume that if in Petropavlovsk in the 19th century there were, say, only 300 Russians and all of them were soldiers of a military base, then why turn this fortress into a supposedly civil city, and call the soldiers indigenous Russian inhabitants? And even more so Astrakhan or Tyumen, which in general were in no way founded by the Slavs, namely the steppe inhabitants ...
          3) Kazakhstan sent people in the 40s. Then the Kazakhs were the majority of the population. Under Khrushchev, Russian immigrants became the majority in the Kazakh SSR. Do not confuse. And people did not go on their own to rebuild the country, but at the request of the respective republics on the orders of their republican Central Committee of the Communist Party.
          4) And about bombed Moscow - where does Hollywood movies have to do with it? Do you know such films of the USA, where the ruined Moscow is shown? Or just blurted out a word? And the fact that Moscow was bombed by German planes should have known. The city itself was not particularly damaged, but the surrounding areas suffered very much, because the Germans dropped the bulk of the bombs there.
          1. Beck
            0
            January 10 2013
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            I know who lived in the Kazakh steppe in historical time. The clan of my mother, "Uisun", has been recorded in the Chinese chronicles since the first millennium BC. The family of my father "Argyn" came to the Kazakh steppes a little later.


            Marek has repeatedly said that most Kazakhs know their genealogical tree. To make it clear that this is what I’ll bring my own.

            tamga naimanov Naiman uranium - KAPTAGAY (cry)

            three large tribal associations of the Naiman tribe
            SARIZHOMART - - - - - TERSTAMGALY - - - - - - TOLEGET
            (terstanbals)
            tamga terstamgaly

            subgenus terstamgaly
            ACTAGYS

            TOKTAGUL Batyr
            Shokaman. Tanat. Cabaye. Samai. Aganasbatyr. Togonas. Otep. Culdibay. Zhalantas
            Shokaman
            Mayzhol. Kudabay.
            Mayjol
            Atanbay. UAIS. Kuanysh. Jienbai.
            UAIS
            Musamel. Nurpiya. Zeynel Gabit. Zeynel-Garap. Kadesh. Lukpan.
            ! ! ! ! ! !
            Light Marzia Temir Serik Yerlan Nazigul
            Naziya Bakhyt Gulnar Kulziya Bijan Askar
            Amantay Umutkul Azamat Nurlan Botagoz
            Saule Yerzhan Gulzhan
            Yerbol Seitan
            Talgat. Rayhan
            1. Beck
              0
              January 10 2013
              It was copied incomprehensibly. I will write a new one. This is just for the idea, who are interested to know how it looks, about knowing your tree.

              Tribe Naiman. One of the four tribes that formed the basis of the troops of Genghis Khan.

              Three tribes of the Naiman tribe - SARYZHOMART. TERISTAMGALS. Slow down.

              The subgenus Teristamgaly AKTAGYS.

              Seven of my knees in Aktagys.

              TOKTAGUL BATYR. His sons.

              SHOCOMAN, Tanat, Kabay, Samai, Aganasbatyr, Togo
              1. Beck
                0
                January 10 2013
                COMP has flashed. All incomprehensibly issued. Anyway. So be it.
  33. +8
    January 3 2013
    And we invite people who have learned from such textbooks to our country. They will go to rob and kill us. And they will be sure that they simply take what is theirs, what the tsar and the USSR took from them in due time. I personally support healthy nationalism. To a stranger with respect, but do not give him a greyhound. I understand that many people here have friends from the CIS countries. But for many, this friendship will consist in "I won't hurt you." In the 90s, neighbors spoke of Russians in Central Asia and the Caucasus ...
  34. Oleg1986
    -3
    January 3 2013
    That is, all this really seems ridiculous, and fairy tales about hyperborea and super-duper heroes are in the order of things. Oh well. You already decide.
    1. Nurker
      -6
      January 3 2013
      Quote: Oleg1986
      That is, all this really seems ridiculous, and fairy tales about hyperborea and super-duper heroes are in the order of things. Oh well. You already decide.


      Oh, these tales, oh, these storytellers
      1. +4
        January 3 2013
        Quote: nurker
        Oh, these tales, oh, these storytellers


        And here is a TRUE story. laughing fool
        http://www.zonakz.net/blogs/user/ospanov_galym-istorik/6767.html


        FOR ANCIENT KAZAKH, the word KIAT had a special meaning, because it was this name that was given to their capital cities, and this indicates the importance that Kazakhs attached to horse breeding.

        Therefore, we must consider the history of the emergence of some cities with the root of KIAT. .


        KIAT.-KIEV.

        In historical science, it is believed that in what is now Kyiv, settlements arose from 1500 to 2000 years ago.

        According to legend, at the end of V - beginning of VI century. AD, the brothers KIAT (Kiy), SHEKTY (Schek) and KARA OGYZ (Khoriv) and their sister AKKU - AK - KAZ (Lybed) chose a place on the slopes of the Dnieper and founded the city on the steep right bank and named it after the eldest brother, KIAT.
        The history of the origin of the Kiat (Kiev) princes from the RORIKOVICH-Normans has its own true explanation. .

        The fact is that the word NORMANNY is of Kazakh origin -NAR-camel, in the semantic meaning it is mighty, of great strength and MAN is a person. In "The Tale of Bygone Years .." NESTOR just mentions the NORMAN-NORMAN. BORYK this is the word VARYAG. THEY wore the headdress BORYK.

        In KIAT (KIEV), Khan AKSAK (ASKOLD) was seated on the throne, when at that time! R!

        ER! K (RORIK) was a mercenary. His squad was called berserkers - goat-wolves, bor-serek - fierce wolves. The name EP! K - means free. He, as the leader of the squad, bore the title KUNAN (KONUNG) and, as a mercenary, he visited many places in EUROPE, having come to NOVGOROD, married the daughter of the elder of this powerful city of KUSTAMYS (GOSTOMYSL). Strengthening your squad! R! ER! K (RORIK) is at war on KIAT (KIEV), AKSAK (ASKOLD), together with his brother, escapes from the city.
        So! P! EP! K (RURIK) sits in KIAT (KIEV). After his death
        heir will remain his young son AIGYR (IGOR), the guardian of ULA (OLEG)
        DARKHAN (TARKHAN), according to the annals, he was a brother-in-law! R! EP! Ka (RURIKA). DARKHAN (TARKHAN) is the post of the head of the military cavalry detachment-troops, ULS-GREAT.
        The next city in the European part of the GREAT STEP, namely in the CARPATHIANS was KIYAT (CHISINAU). Over time, KIAT transforms as KYSEN (CHERRY) - --PUTS for horses. And from this word in Russian it will be like the word STABLE.
        1. 0
          January 3 2013
          Quote: tan0472

          Major General Avatar
          Offline
          tan0472 (2) US Today, 16:40

          Wow, buy! What a twist! This is the best comment in this thread!
          Could you, in this vein and for other "GREAT" ones, make a short excursion into the true history? wassat Giant plus. Regards, ULA GYURGENOVICH.
          1. 0
            January 3 2013
            Quote: olegyurjewitch
            Could you, in this vein and for other "GREAT" ones, make a short excursion into the true history? Giant plus. Best regards - ULA GYURGENOVICH.

            You are not careful - I did not compose this "story", but copied it from the link - http://www.zonakz.net/blogs/user/ospanov_galym-istorik/6767.html
            "ULY GYURGENOVICH" - is it Oleg Yurievich? laughing
            1. 0
              January 4 2013
              Quote: tan0472
              You are not careful - I did not compose this "story", but copied from the link

              Yes, it doesn’t matter that you didn’t make it up, the main thing is to live. Well, according to the link, U.G. somehow goes like that. In general, among the Kazakhs, each name, both male and female, has its own meaning or value. For example: Erbolat is a real man. But I don’t know how they choose the Russian name, parallel to the real name. But I’ll ask the Kazakhs for my friends.
        2. Nurker
          -4
          January 3 2013
          Quote: tan0472
          http://www.zonakz.net/blogs/user/ospanov_galym-istorik/6767.htmlУ ДРЕВНИХ КАЗАХОВ слово КИАТ имело особое значение , ибо своим городам -столицам давали именно это имя , и это говорит о том , какое важное значение придавали казахи коневодству .Поэтому надо рассмотреть историю возникновения некоторых городов с корнем КИАТ. . КИАТ.-КИЕВ.В исторической науке считается , что на территории нынешнего Киева поселения возникли от 1500 до 2000 лет тому назад.ПО легенде, в конце V - начале VI в. нашей эры братья КИАТ( Кий), ШЕКТЫ(Щек ) и КАРА ОГЫЗ (Хорив) и их сестра АККУ--АК --КАЗ(Лыбедь) облюбовали место на склонах Днепра и основали на крутом правом берегу город и назвали его, в честь старшего брата, КИАТ.История происхождения киатских (киевских) князей от РЁРИКОВИЧЕЙ -норманнов имеет своё истинное обьяснение . .Дело в том , что слово НОРМАННЫ имеют казахское происхождение -НАР-верблюд ,в смысловом могучий , огромной силы и МАН-- человек . В "Повести временных лет.." как раз таки НЕСТОР упоминает о НАРМАНАХ -НОРМАНАХ. БОРЫК это и есть слово ВАРЯГ.ОНИ носили головной убор БОРЫК.В КИАТ (КИЕВ) восседал на троне хан АКСАК(АСКОЛЬД) , когда в это время !Р! ЕР!К (РЁРИК) был наёмником . Его отряд называли берсеркеры - волки-козоволухи ,бор-серек -лютые волки . Имя ЕР!К - означает свободный . Он как предводитель дружины носил титул КУНАН (КОНУНГ ) и как наёмник побывал во многих местах ЕВРОПЫ , придя в НОВГОРОД , женился на дочери старейшины этого могущественного города КУСТАМЫСА (ГОСТОМЫСЛА). Усилив свой отряд !Р! ЕР!К (РЁРИК) идёт войной на КИАТ(КИЕВ) , АКСАК (АСКОЛЬД) вместе с братом сбегает из города .Таким образом !Р! ЕР!К (РЮРИК) восседает в КИАТ(КИЕВ). После его смерти наследником останется его малолетний сын АЙГЫР (ИГОРЬ) , опекуном УЛЫ(ОЛЕГ)ДАРХАН (ТАРХАН) , по летописи он был шурином !Р! ЕР!Ка (РЮРИКА). ДАРХАН (ТАРХАН) это должность главы военного конного отряда- войска , УЛЫ- ВЕЛИКИЙ. Следующим городом в европейской части ВЕЛИКОЙ СТЕПИ , а именно на КАРПАТАХ был КИЯТ (КИШИНЁВ) . Со временем КИАТ трансформируется как КЫСЕН ( КИШЕНЬ ) - --ПУТЫ для лошадей . И от этого слова в русском языке он будет как слово КОНЮШНЯ.


          Dear, if you read such articles, then you do not respect yourself and you create the impression (image) of Kazakhstan (or Central Asia)
          1. +1
            January 3 2013
            Quote: nurker
            Dear, if you read such articles, then you do not respect yourself and you create the impression (image) of Kazakhstan (or Central Asia)

            1) I read it by accident (looking for other information)
            2) Do you see the inscription on the fence, too, stop respecting yourself?
            3) What is CA?
            1. Nurker
              -4
              January 3 2013
              Quote: tan0472
              2) Do you see the inscription on the fence, too, stop respecting yourself?


              The inscription on the fence does not mean any of my thoughts, they mean the thoughts of the one who wrote, and usually, a competent person does not write on the fence

              Quote: tan0472
              3) What is CA?


              Central Asia is Central Asia
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +5
                January 3 2013
                Quote: nurker
                Central Asia is Central Asia

                Dear, if you didn’t write Central Asia, but Central Asia, it would be more understandable.
                1. Nurker
                  -4
                  January 3 2013
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  Dear, if you didn’t write Central Asia, but Central Asia, it would be more clear


                  do not blame me, it happened
                2. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  January 10 2013
                  Central Asia and Central Asia are different concepts. Even in Soviet times, Kazakhstan was not geographically included in Central Asia. Remember the weather forecasts on the Central Television: "In Central Asia and Kazakhstan + 5 + 15, snow in places ...")
          2. slava.iwasenko
            +3
            January 3 2013
            And why are you really outraged, the myth that Russia conquered it has long been launched in Kazakhstan. And everyone is silent that the concept of Kazakh itself arose after the October Revolution (or, as it is now fashionable to say, a coup)
            1. Nurker
              -4
              January 3 2013
              Quote: slava.iwasenko
              And only everyone is silent that the very concept of Kazakh arose after the October Revolution (or as it is now fashionable to say a coup)


              By this, you want to say that the Kazakhs appeared no earlier than the 1920s?
              1. Ingvald_Bueny
                +3
                January 3 2013
                Kindly say "Kazakh" and "Cossack" are synonyms? I would like to hear your opinion.
                1. Nurker
                  -3
                  January 3 2013
                  Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                  Kindly say "Kazakh" and "Cossack" are synonyms? I would like to hear your opinion.


                  I will tell you this: I will translate the people "Kazakh" into the Latin alphabet, since there is no hard letter "K" in Cyrillic and Russian. There will be "Qazaq" the sound K is pronounced as if chewed, similar to the Latin "Ku" Therefore, it was necessary to write Cossack, but the Cossacks were already subjects of the Republic of Ingushetia and therefore the union with the Kirghiz went and wrote Kirghiz-kaisak. Kirghiz is Kirg - 40, kiz - maidens, Kirghiz, according to their folk legend, descended from 40 beautiful maidens.

                  "Kazakh" - began to write after 1960, thereby finally separated from the Kirghiz-Kaisak
                  In general, the Cossacks are a free people, all those who wanted to live free from serfdom were accepted into the Cossacks, and the Cossack is a symbol of freedom, oddly enough, but "Qazaq" also means freedom, insubordinate. This does not mean that the Cossacks are Kazakhs, no, this is just a confirmation that Russia and the Kazakhs have a common common history and neighborhood, and not that the Russian emperors did not know what peoples live in the east, and so, stumbled upon them.
                  1. Ingvald_Bueny
                    +2
                    January 3 2013
                    All this is very good, but I know what you wrote from academic sources.
                    But what about this information described below, I would like to hear your opinion.
                    “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”the President of Kazakhstan N. Nazarbayev said at the ceremony of raising the flag of the Turkic Council as part of the Kazakh-Turkish business forum in Istanbul (KAZAKHINFORM).
                    1. Nurker
                      -2
                      January 3 2013
                      Quote: Ingvald_Bueny
                      All this is very good, but I know what you wrote from academic sources. But what about this information described below, I would like to hear your opinion. “We live in the homeland of the entire Turkic people. After the last Kazakh khan was killed in 1861, we were a colony of the Russian kingdom, then the Soviet Union. For 150 years, the Kazakhs almost lost their national traditions, customs, language, religion. With the help of the Almighty, in 1991 we proclaimed our independence. Your ancestors, leaving their historical homeland, from the Turkic Kaganate, took the name of the Turkic people with them. Until now, the Turks have called the best Dzhigits - “Cossack”. So we are these Kazakhs, ”Kazakhstan President N. Nazarbayev said at the ceremony of raising the flag of the Turkic Council as part of the Kazakh-Turkish business forum in Istanbul (KAZAKHINFORM).


                      As to how the Turks called their Dzhigits, I don’t know for sure, but I don’t consider it my goal to unite with Turkey, because I don’t perceive their culture as Turkic, something mixed with Byzantium, Venice, Arabs, and other peoples, and from 1940- x Turkey is cleverly manipulated by the United States, set off like a dog. I think so, maybe because of the steppe mentality, I don’t know.
                      Kazakhs depart from the Kipchaks (Kimaks) There also (Tatars, Nogai, Karakalpaki, Bashkirs and more). In the Middle Ages, in Crimea, Kipchak, Georgians, and defeated peoples were sold as slaves. These slaves were prepared in Egypt like the Mamluks, because of their natural qualities, as were the Assassins in Iran, and the Turks at the dawn of the Ottoman Empire Great had problems with the Mamluks, like RI with the Cossacks, maybe that’s why the Turks exalt them like the Cossacks Russia.
                      Our president plays a very cool and serious game:

                      1. He is For a Nuclear-Free World
                      2. He is for unification with the Turkic peoples and the revival of the culture of the Turks. (Imagine that the Indians did not allow themselves to be destroyed and began to create an Indian state with a modern state apparatus)
                      3. He is for the unification of religions. Pope what is it worth
                      4. He wants the world to report more about a peaceful country where, until recently, there were no terrorist attacks. That is, with this, he wants to attract the world's investments to settle Kazakhstan
                      1. Ingvald_Bueny
                        +5
                        January 3 2013
                        Something you did too deep an analysis of what you didn’t say so and what else you can think up what kind of transcosmic flights it is, exploring the galaxy, etc. etc.
                        Your president Nursultan Abishevich said everything briefly and clearly what he thinks about the period of Kazakhstan's accession to Russia. And the words of his Russians were hardly pleased. Again, this is the right of one or another state to choose its path, just after his words, conversations about friendship lose their meaning.