The first four prototypes of the newest short-range air defense system M-SHORAD with a combat laser were transferred to the US Army

The first prototypes of the newest short-range air defense system SHORAD with a 50-kilowatt laser entered service with the US Army, the press service of the Ground Forces reports this on its website.

Raytheon has supplied the US Army with four prototypes of the DE M-SHORAD short-range air defense system. The complexes, created on the basis of the Stryker armored personnel carrier, were assigned to the 4th battalion of the 60th air defense artillery regiment at Fort Sill. The task of the military personnel will be to comprehensively test the new systems.

The transfer of DE M-SHORAD prototypes to 4-60 ADAR is an important milestone in the Army's modernization campaign. This is an achievement that adds what was often considered next-generation capabilities

- said the head of the US Army Rapid Capabilities and Critical Technologies Directorate, Colonel Gutierrez.

As noted, new systems with a combat laser will be tested together with M-SHORAD short-range air defense systems with kinetic weapons, delivered to the battalion back in July of this year. The US Army command intends to develop an air defense algorithm when using conventional and laser weapons. The basic version of M-SHORAD is also based on the Stryker A1 armored vehicles, but differs in weapons. It has Raytheon Stinger and Hellfire missile launchers, as well as M230LF 30mm cannons with coaxial machine guns.

First of all, the M-SHORAD system is designed to combat drones, in addition, it is capable of counteracting airplanes and helicopters, as well as providing protection for units and facilities from missiles, artillery and mortars.

Comments

[Murmur 55]

The only true selection criterion is real combat operations, otherwise everything is fine in the exercises, but real battles begin and then this “sore” comes out.

[credo]

Quote: Murmur 55

The only true selection criterion is real combat operations, otherwise everything is fine in the exercises, but real battles begin and then this “sore” comes out.

Who would argue, and it is quite possible that soon they may appear near Kyiv or in western Ukraine under the supervision of regular US military personnel.

[Escariot]

Quote: credo

Quote: Murmur 55

The only true selection criterion is real combat operations, otherwise everything is fine in the exercises, but real battles begin and then this “sore” comes out.

Who would argue, and it is quite possible that soon they may appear near Kyiv or in western Ukraine under the supervision of regular US military personnel.

It will not appear near Kyiv. This is a tactical system against small drones. It belongs on the front line or as a means of counter-guerrilla warfare. Shahed is too big a target for her.

[Egeny]

People, come on, really, why guess: they’ll go to the front line, we’ll see...
If the opportunity arises, we’ll seize it, and then the KGB will usually... look for details.

[Escariot]

Quote: Murmur 55

The only true selection criterion is real combat operations, otherwise everything is fine in the exercises, but real battles begin and then this “sore” comes out.

It seems like it was already used in Iraq to protect bases. The military were more or less satisfied with the results obtained.

[orionvitt]

Quote from Escariot

The military were more or less satisfied with the results obtained

That's the thing in Iraq. If they put it in Ukraine (as many people write here), I believe that in this case they will not be happy with the results. They will be extinguished on the second day.

[rocket757]

Even if not on new principles, but as a military weapon in the army, it will indeed be something new.
As for effectiveness... time will tell.
One thing is clear, this type of weapon will continue to evolve and could become a truly new milestone in the history of weapons.

[Murmur 55]

rocket757, sooner or later, an effective weapon against drones will be developed, but whether it will shoot them down with a charge or extinguish their “brains” is a question, so lasers are a stage in the eternal battle of shield and sword.

[Johnson Smithson]

but as a military weapon in the army, it really will be something new

this is what they call new principles,
not that the laws of physics are new, but that weapons have not previously used such principles

[Vadim S]

That's what the Amers did well, they did something, right away and a series, a good example or not so much, but a series! And our sample is definitely good, sometimes the best, but not a single series, and there’s no point in being the best.

[Murmur 55]

Vadim S , they can afford to rivet 100500 units, inflate lards and then say that it’s not right and we’ll write it off.

[Escariot]

Quote: Murmur 55

Vadim S , they can afford to rivet 100500 units, inflate lards and then say that it’s not right and we’ll write it off.

Not at all. This whole mess with lasers has been going on for almost 10 years. They even managed to experience combat conditions. Now there's a new generation.

[Murmur 55]

Escariot , I didn’t mean lasers, but series and costs in general. They have been tinkering with lasers since the mid-90s and there is no wow effect yet.

[Escariot]

Quote: Murmur 55

Escariot , I didn’t mean lasers, but series and costs in general. They have been tinkering with lasers since the mid-90s and there is no wow effect yet.

I'm not talking about lasers in general, but about a specific system. It was already in trial operation. According to the US military, it proved to be more or less successful. Now they are expanding production. Well, you shouldn’t expect a “wow” effect. Most likely, for now it will complement the cannon and missile air defense systems.

[Reindeer herder_2]

Quote: Vadim S

That's what the Amers did well, they did something, right away and a series, a good example or not so much, but a series!

Yeah... they won't let me lie:
LW50MG
M2A2 Terra-Star
gay bomb (this masterpiece may even be mass-produced)
Zumwalt and its AGS, LRAP AU
XM1299
Well and so on

[orionvitt]

Quote: Vadim S

That's what the Americans did well, they did something, just once and a series

What series, read carefully. It's written in black and white - prototypes.

[km-21]

Several years ago we were also promised weapons based on new physical principles. But for some reason the Americans were ahead. Maybe because they were not engaged in making promises but in developing?

[Murmur 55]

km-21 , they painted their Zamvolt, which is just wow. And now they are thinking about how to arm it and where to stick it.

[flSergius]

Is a laser needed for these purposes? A UAV is a small and actively maneuvering target; to keep it in the beam cone, a complex drive and guidance system is needed. There are probably better programmable fragmentation shells that create a cloud of fragments on the path/around the target. Maybe someday all armies will come to such projectiles thrown by an electromagnet, but now even a regular 25-57mm autocannon is better.

[Vrotkompot]

I think it's a matter of limiting the range of the projectile. When the UAV is already at striking distance, it is difficult to accompany it in the gun sight)
Besides, as I understand it, they don’t fly so high, so they find them already above their heads. There is enough machine gun fire here.

[Escariot]

Quote: flSergius

Is a laser needed for these purposes? A UAV is a small and actively maneuvering target; to keep it in the beam cone, a complex drive and guidance system is needed. There are probably better programmable fragmentation shells that create a cloud of fragments on the path/around the target. Maybe someday all armies will come to such projectiles thrown by an electromagnet, but now even a regular 25-57mm autocannon is better.

Judging by the promotional videos, there are no problems with keeping the target in the beam. Moreover, it is not just the drone that is held in the beam, but a specific location on the UAV.
And the laser has one advantage over guns and missiles - it only needs diesel fuel. Logistics will be greatly simplified. Of course, the laser has its limitations, but the development potential is very large.

[Murmur 55]

Escariot, specifically based on ADVERTISING videos, I remember what videos they made about Zamvolt, and about the mullah robot, and where are these samples now.

[Escariot]

Quote: Murmur 55

Escariot, specifically based on ADVERTISING videos, I remember what videos they made about Zamvolt, and about the mullah robot, and where are these samples now.

The military was relatively satisfied with the operation of such a system in Iraq. The weapon is still in trial operation, but production is increasing. It's only the beginning

[Murmur 55]

Escariot, no, it won’t, the Zamvolts will only release those that they managed to lay down, and even in Afghanistan there were no mullahs on an industrial scale.

[molyr]

Well, yes, according to advertising, have you seen advertisements with jambs of the product?

[Reindeer herder_2]

Quote from Escariot

And the laser has one advantage over guns and missiles - it only needs diesel fuel

Actually: instantaneous (in the dimension of the Earth) delivery of ammunition to the target (~296000 km/s vs 1 km/s). Leads and other complications are not required.

Well, the cost of the “shot” is, of course, pennies.

[Reindeer herder_2]

Quote: flSergius

to keep it in the beam cone, a complex drive and guidance system is needed.

At this distance, the diameter of the absorbed beam is <10 mm. A 50 kW class laser burns a hole in the drone body, causing an explosion or disruption of integrity to occur within a few seconds.
Detection, guidance and tracking are provided by the electro-optical/infrared acquisition and tracking system and the Ku720 multi-purpose radar

[voyaka uh]

With the capture and holding of the target in sight
no problem at all.
The only problem was the time for destruction.
And with range.
How many seconds will it take for the laser to burn through the target’s vulnerable point?
But 50 kV is a serious request.
About a couple of seconds at 5-7 km range.
This is an estimate based on an Israeli similar system.

[Rumata]

50-kilowatt laser.

Will it not be enough? What is the power limit? Such a healthy fool could, using an aviation APU on a turbojet engine or any helicopter engine as a generator, provide a couple of hundred kilowatts of power.

[voyaka uh]

10 kW burns out electronics.
25-50 kW burns through the drone’s wing in 2-3 seconds.
100 kW burns through metal at a distance of up to 7 km

[kakvastam]

We are waiting for delivery to Ukraine, where they can still be tested.
I wonder how difficult it will be to neutralize them by spraying aerosols?

[Escariot]

Quote: kakvastam

We are waiting for delivery to Ukraine, where they can still be tested.
I wonder how difficult it will be to neutralize them by spraying aerosols?

Most likely, it is quite possible to neutralize them by spraying aerosols, just like in rain, fog, or a dust storm, a laser is also difficult to use. Nevertheless, in its niche it is a very useful thing. It is supposed to shoot down small reconnaissance drones and kamikaze FPV drones. And on such small drones it is unlikely that it will be possible to install some kind of aerosol spray system.

[Tim666]

Quote: Vadim S

That's what the Amers did well, they did something, right away and a series, a good example or not so much, but a series! And our sample is definitely good, sometimes the best, but not a single series, and there’s no point in being the best.

Can you give examples about the best examples? If you watch enough of the Zvezda programs and the Impact Force cycle, then it’s completely analogous, but if you dig deeper, there’s a nuance everywhere. And in general, it is hardly possible to achieve a breakthrough by repeating old Soviet projects; it requires work for more than a dozen years and colossal injections of money, a scientific and industrial base. And when an ordinary designer in the defense industry receives less than an ordinary tiler, what better examples can we talk about? By the way, IMHO, in military terms, the best is the enemy of the good, an actual principle. You can dig up how many excellent performance characteristics of tanks and aircraft there were in the West, but they didn’t go because they were expensive and prohibitively difficult for their time.

[Tim666]

Quote: Vadim S

That's what the Amers did well, they did something, right away and a series, a good example or not so much, but a series! And our sample is definitely good, sometimes the best, but not a single series, and there’s no point in being the best.

A striking example of Armata, it seems to be the best example if you listen to clowns like Murakhovsky, but if you dig deeper and read the uncomfortable questions asked not by pop-experts, but by designers who actually worked in this field, then it becomes clear that there is no smell of a working combat vehicle there.

[Tim666]

Quote: km-21

Several years ago we were also promised weapons based on new physical principles. But for some reason the Americans were ahead. Maybe because they were not engaged in making promises but in developing?

Based on new physical principles, is it on talaron waves or something on antigravity?

[alexmach]

Laser is based on new physical principles. We have already written above - new ones not from the point of view of physics, but from the point of view of their military use. Until now, they haven’t hit anything with lasers, except maybe some kind of optics, but now they will, that’s what’s new.

[APASUS]

Judging by the side of the Stryker armored personnel carrier, there is such heat generation that in the infrared range it glows like the sun. This device can be seen far beyond the range of damage from this laser

[Rom8681]

Quote: km-21

Several years ago we were also promised weapons based on new physical principles. But for some reason the Americans were ahead. Maybe because they were not engaged in making promises but in developing?

Their managers are more efficient than ours.

[Ivan Seversky]

Quote: Rumata

50-kilowatt laser.

Will it not be enough? What is the power limit? Such a healthy fool could, using an aviation APU on a turbojet engine or any helicopter engine as a generator, provide a couple of hundred kilowatts of power.

Apparently the dimensions of the laser are limited by the need for cooling. Ratheon was chosen because the competitor couldn’t handle it.
As far as I remember, the duration of the laser “fire” is limited to 60 shots of 10 seconds, after which the batteries must be charged. Stuffing more batteries into armored personnel carriers is not a problem - mass-produced electric cars are equipped with a 60 kW battery. I think that the limitation is foolproof protection so that the laser does not overheat.
For ships, 300 kW is being developed. I think the ship will be able to reliably shoot down cruise missiles in almost any weather.

[Rasp]

Do you know that there is an anti-laser coating that can be applied to a rocket body?

[Tim666]

Quote: alexmach

Laser is based on new physical principles. We have already written above - new ones not from the point of view of physics, but from the point of view of their military use. Until now, they haven’t hit anything with lasers, except maybe some kind of optics, but now they will, that’s what’s new.

Google when they tested the first combat laser)

[Tim666]

Quote: Murmur 55

Vadim S , they can afford to rivet 100500 units, inflate lards and then say that it’s not right and we’ll write it off.

In principle, from the point of view of development, negative experience is also development; at a minimum, new technologies are being polished, the design school is being improved, and new technologies are being mastered. There are many similar examples in the domestic defense industry.

[Siberia55]

Enlighten the amateur in a few words, how is it going with Peresvet?
(Not sarcasm)
Applicable or not? Or was the project pushed back altogether?

[Ryaruav]

I think ours have already tested lasers in their own way and practice has shown that it is more effective and cheaper to use electronic warfare equipment in a given time period

[Escariot]

Quote: Ryaruav

I think ours have already tested lasers in their own way and practice has shown that it is more effective and cheaper to use electronic warfare equipment in a given time period

Lasers are different from lasers. Maybe our lasers really are not as effective as our electronic warfare, but American lasers can be more effective than American electronic warfare.
Well, one more thing, electronic warfare has one significant disadvantage - it glows in the radio range like a Christmas tree with all that it implies.

[opposite28]

The first prototypes of the newest short-range air defense system SHORAD with a 50-kilowatt laser entered service with the US Army, the press service of the Ground Forces reports this on its website.

Will one of them go to Ukraine soon for direct participation in combat operations to repel missile attacks on Ukrainian energy infrastructure facilities?

The head of the Ukrainian company Ukrenergo, Vladimir Kudritsky, said that the country's authorities intend to use, for the first time in the world, some innovative types of protection of energy facilities from potential Russian attacks.

Experience in combat use in repelling modern models of missile and bomb weapons of the RF Armed Forces, but also an interesting goal for domestic specialists

[Mizerbal]

If it doesn’t destroy it, then nothing will be left of the optics. But it is unknown how life will be on the front line and whether a drone the size of a geranium will be able to destroy it. We would like such things for military airfields

[reader1964]

Quote from Tim666

And when an ordinary designer in the defense industry receives less than an ordinary tiler, what better examples can we talk about?

I believe that not everything is decided by the amount of salary. The technical school is deteriorating, and protectionism is flourishing. a specialist with original thinking is unlikely to appear even in Baumanka.

[geologist]

He may be able to kill single drones, but it will be difficult to withstand four stinging bumblebees flying in a circle. All that remains is to learn how to make a swarm of 4 drones with AI.

[egorMTG]

- As for the “new physical principles”... Recently, here at VO there was a message about the latest Israeli tanks, with a shell protection system that causes remote detonation of these shells fired at the tank... So maybe here - “the dog is buried” ?! If with a classic laser (definitely CUT) - it’s still difficult, maybe develop this very direction: - creating a wave pulse generator capable of causing remote detonation of explosives ....? If the topic were successfully developed, such a nuclear-pumped generator would be a fairly effective means of destroying any military equipment containing explosives. And installed on a low-orbit satellite, it would have no temporal or spatial boundaries of use at all....

[Mikhail Maslov]

You are right, we need to develop, and not catch up, we need to do, and not doubt. This is where the West is systematically outplaying us. Setting the “tone” as with underwater drones and hypersound, this is the level.

[Tim666]

Quote: reader1964

Quote from Tim666

And when an ordinary designer in the defense industry receives less than an ordinary tiler, what better examples can we talk about?

I believe that not everything is decided by the amount of salary. The technical school is deteriorating, and protectionism is flourishing. a specialist with original thinking is unlikely to appear even in Baumanka.

Well, until there is a normal salary from the start, promising designers will go into sales or tiling. I know a case where a person worked for a year after university and asked his colleagues, how much will I earn in 5 years? They say - in response they laugh - yes, in the evenings I help my brother on stretch ceilings and have more, and naturally I left to work on ceilings. In 5 years I built an apartment and got a new car, but I could only dream about it if I stayed in a serious design bureau) It’s not post-war 1946, what to put on and wear, what to eat and you’re not dying of hunger and you can consider life a success. The ability to read Schiller without a dictionary, if it does not bring money, is not valuable today.

[tank64rus]

We will step on the same rake again. I thought that the SVO would force “effective” managers to turn to science, but apparently things are still there. And here you can’t get by with window dressing. Until we return the tariff scale to universities and other government institutions, a hungry professor cannot be forced to work. I don’t even want to mention grants.

[wladimirjankov]

50 kW is already serious. Such a laser will definitely deal with UAVs. And slow-moving helicopters and airplanes won’t fare well either. Such devices would certainly not be a problem for us at the Northern Military District. But we still have one huge overexposure. whose tasks and goals are unclear. Looks like you'll use it at SVO.

[Mikhail Maslov]

This installation “hit” a moving car at a distance of 1 km. After this, the installation was recommended for testing in the army.

[Mikhail Maslov]

This article is 3-4 years late. The “helifirers” have already been abandoned and the first lazarn was not 50, but only 10 kW. Then came modifications with both detection radars and weapons. There is a modification on a light jeep with just 10 kW Lazar and Stinger missiles, there is a modification for Bradley.