US press: Modern Western air defense systems have shown low effectiveness in the fight against Russian bombs

American Patriot air defense systems, as well as other modern foreign-made anti-aircraft systems, have demonstrated extremely low effectiveness in the fight against Russian high-explosive bombs. The Business Insider portal writes about this.

Russian aviation bombs, developed back in Soviet times, pose a great threat to Ukraine, since they are practically not intercepted by modern anti-aircraft systems in service with the Air Force of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Air defense systems supplied by the West are simply not designed to intercept this type of ammunition, since the bombs remain in the air for an extremely short time.

(...) Soviet-era Russian air bombs pose a mortal threat to Ukraine, as they are difficult to intercept even with the most modern air defense systems

- writes the edition.

According to representatives of Kyiv, Russia has modified bombs that were used 50 years ago, equipping them with “GPS modules and gliding propellers,” which significantly increased their accuracy. At the same time, the latest anti-aircraft systems from leading Western manufacturers were not designed to combat aerial bombs, even gliding ones.

Bombs rarely stay in the air for little more than a minute, and, unlike cruise missiles or strike missiles drones, they are difficult to track (...) This makes them weapons, which the latest air defense systems, such as the vaunted American Patriot missiles, were not designed to combat.

- Business Insider quotes the expert as saying.

As Yury Ignat, a representative of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, said, intercepting air bombs “does not make sense”; the only option to combat them is the complete suppression of Russian aviation. No planes in the sky - no aerial bombs on the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Comments

[Bingo]

Only with bombs? How do Geranki collide? Eagles? How are things going with the KR, with the Daggers? Did they shoot down Iskanders?

[Myths]

They were good at shooting down themselves, but they weren’t bad at flying around houses in the area either. But cast iron doesn’t care. But this is not the essence of the Ukrainian multi-move of the United States.

[Shurik70]

However, I am behind the times.
It turns out that we equip gliding bombs with a propeller.
I wonder if there are any photos?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote from Bingo

Only with bombs? How do Geranki collide? Eagles? How are things going with the KR, with the Daggers? Did they shoot down Iskanders?

Bombs are more difficult. The examples you gave are closer to the carriers against which all air defense systems in the world are designed.

[UAZ 452]

Air defense and electronic warfare gliding guided bombs should be intercepted, but free-falling FABs - why bother with them if it is much more effective to destroy their carrier before the “cast iron” drop line? And this approach is fully justified - losses from artillery and missiles are much higher than from aviation operations, both for us and for the enemy.

[Shurik70]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Bombs are more difficult. The examples you gave are closer to the carriers against which all air defense systems in the world are designed.

Perhaps I'm technically illiterate.
But doesn’t a glide bomb fly exclusively “from top to bottom”?
The wings and initial speed with altitude allow it to fly a long distance, but it flies almost in a straight line, is very limited in maneuver, and at a fairly high altitude, which gradually decreases. And the entire bomb is made of metal, which allows it to be clearly visible on radars.
It seems like these are ideal conditions for interception?
Drones are another matter. The body is made of plastic, can fly low, and maneuvers.

[maksbazhin]

The nuance is that the damaging elements do not work well against cast iron; they are designed more for duralumin.

[alexoff]

It is unlikely that if something larger than a MANPADS explodes, the winged bomb will calmly continue its flight; most likely, some of the control systems will break, the rudders will jam.

[Shurik70]

Quote from alexoff

It is unlikely that if something larger than a MANPADS explodes, the winged bomb will calmly continue its flight; most likely, some of the control systems will break, the rudders will jam.

And portable ones also have such damaging elements...
The same starstreak is worth three flying crowbars.
Another thing is that a bomb from an ancient warehouse, to which a pair of plastic wings were attached, is infinitely cheaper than a MANPADS missile.
But the point is that they are more difficult to shoot down than a drone.
And I think they are lying.

[alexoff]

Yes, now geraniums are flying to Kyiv almost freely, apparently there is an order to save rockets and hide installations. They are trying to hit the geraniums with maximum anti-aircraft artillery.

[chingachguc]

Geranium, Caliber is not such a difficult target. Eagles too. There are just a lot of these Eagles. They don’t have time to shoot them down

[Mikhail Ivanov]

This is a discovery at VO, it turns out that air defense now works against bombs)))

[Fangaro]

Did air defense initially appear against bombs?
I'm an amateur when it comes to everything that doesn't involve radio. There is a little smaller, but also an amateur.
How can air defense be used against a free-falling target?

[rocket757]

The goal, it is the goal... you can shoot down almost everything, it’s a question of PRICE, as always.

[poquello]

Quote from Fangaro

How can air defense be used against a free-falling target?

our air defense has been shooting them down since May 3, periodically

[carpenter]

Quote from Fangaro

How can air defense be used against a free-falling target?

In the physics textbook, the kinematics section, it is written that a body in free fall can only be stopped by a body lying on the surface of the earth.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: carpenter

a body in free fall can only be stopped by a body lying on the surface of the earth.

“If you cut off a bird’s wings, if you cut off its legs too, this bird will die of boredom because it won’t be able to fly...” (c)
If the planning BP damages the UMPC (well, shoots one plane, for example), then it will not hit the target, i.e. it will not complete the mission: the target will not be hit. And if a missile fragment successfully hits, then perhaps the BZO will detonate... But this is almost impossible to do with our OFAB-1500. Therefore, 2 bridges across the river. Oskol was ordered to live a long time.
AHA.

[cat-begemot]

Or, at a minimum, of comparable mass. And I take into account the kinetic energy of a freely falling or gliding Fab 500, you need to hit it with a cannon with a caliber of 204 mm or more.

[Says_Moscow]

Quote from Fangaro

Did air defense initially appear against bombs?
I'm an amateur when it comes to everything that doesn't involve radio. There is a little smaller, but also an amateur.
How can air defense be used against a free-falling target?

on easy Another thing is that shooting a pidriot air defense missile system at cast iron is like killing a lone flying sparrow from a place of vengeance. but we are not talking about interception, this is not a problem, the problem is the price/effectiveness ratio in the target/weapon correlation with existing air defense systems.

[Aviator_]

How can air defense be used against a free-falling target?

The point here is not that it is “free-falling”. It is small in size, this is a problem for the radar, again, if you turn on the radar, something can fly over it. But for a passive system it is low-contrast (almost practically invisible) in the IR range - there is no engine. But the speed of the cast iron has nothing to do with it, and faster targets will go astray if you know where to shoot.

[chingachguc]

These are gliding bombs. In addition, they maneuver

[Thrifty]

It seems like folding wings are attached to bombs to increase their flight range. But I didn’t see any propellers, and the bombs don’t have an internal combustion engine to turn the propellers. Maybe they started attaching Carlson, who lives on the roof, to bombs, and the Yankees write about his propeller

[rocket757]

Without an engine, with wings... gliding ammunition/bomb.
With an engine... rocket or UAV.
Maybe a translation problem? Although, anyone in the subject will understand anyway.

[Says_Moscow]

Quote: Thrifty

It seems like folding wings are attached to bombs to increase their flight range. But I didn’t see any propellers, and the bombs don’t have an internal combustion engine to turn the propellers. Maybe they started attaching Carlson, who lives on the roof, to bombs, and the Yankees write about his propeller

autorotation? no, have not heard. but your opinion is very valuable to us, do not stop, we are carefully recording it.

[Says_Moscow]

well, the height of competence, not knowing any other engines other than internal combustion engines

[Thrifty]

Moscow says - electric motors, gas and steam turbines, pulse jets..... will suit???

[rocket757]

Autorotation... for gliding ammunition, why? They need range, simplicity, it is important, among other things, and this is not about autorotation... it is needed for a completely different process.

[Nikolai]

Quote: Thrifty

But I didn’t see any propellers, and the bombs don’t have an internal combustion engine to turn the propellers.

It’s a shame that I already imagined something like a helicopter rotor in autorotation, but you also need to spin it first, otherwise you simply won’t be able to calculate the trajectory. Then the idea arose that the pinwheel on the fuse was called that, well, in general, it’s not like that.

[rocket757]

As Yury Ignat, a representative of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, said, intercepting air bombs “does not make sense”; the only option to combat them is the complete suppression of Russian aviation. No planes in the sky - no aerial bombs on the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

. Also for me, opened AmeriGu....
There is a nuance with s! Aviation is not within the range of enemy air defense systems... how are they going to destroy them?
Are they waiting, hoping for Fu 16 or something else?

[carpenter]

Quote: rocket757

Are they waiting, hoping for Fu 16 or something else?

FU-16 is a panacea for everything, even for Yu. Ignat’s loose stools.

[UAZ 452]

There is a nuance with s! Aviation is not within the range of enemy air defense systems... how are they going to destroy them?

I would like to be curious: how can aviation that is not within the air defense kill zone operate against an enemy covered by air defense with free-falling FABs? Even gliding ones, if the previously given performance characteristics are not underestimated several times to mislead the enemy, are dropped from such a height and fly so close that their carrier is protected only from MANPADS and anti-aircraft artillery.

[Botanologist]

Quote: UAZ 452

How can aviation that is not within the air defense zone operate against an enemy covered by air defense with free-falling FABs?

Aviation works for LBS. And if you want to move the air defense system to the leading edge - well, keep in mind the new term - “lancet frontier”. It will be very uncomfortable for the air defense to guard the plane.

[rocket757]

That’s how it is, you don’t need to add anything... everything should be clear.
If someone doesn’t understand, it means they really need it.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Botanologist

take into account the new term - "lancet boundary".

Only for professors of Olympic Games and Combined Arms Combat Tactics:
- there is no “lancet boundary”. There is a "reach line..."
This is for especially gifted “teachers”.
In addition, there are frontiers: use, interception, rise of aviation, detection, detection, entry into battle, “attack line”, finally, Mother Infantry has it! But all this is not for UAVs.
AHA.

[air wolf]

They shoot down bombs, everything can be shot down except the Dagger, and the bombs are aimed at them via an optical channel, just like they shot down stealth bombs in Yugoslavia.

[Aviator_]

gliding propellers

Great phrase. Is this true in the original source, or is this the translation?

[balabol]

This riddle came from the original source without explanation. True, the source “Business Insider” (English: Business Insider; lit. “Business Informant”) is news, and not a specialized military one.

Russia is modifying its simple bombs, equipping them with guidance systems to create cheap and effective substitutes for expensive guided missiles.
The system is similar to the JDAM-ER kits sent to Ukraine by the US, which converts existing unguided bombs into precision-guided munitions.
The vintage bombs are fitted with gliding propellers and GPS systems and fired from a longer distance. They can reach a target of 30 miles away, out of range of most of the air defense systems on the frontline. These systems are more precise, and the payloads are so huge they can wreak substantial damage.

[Baku 1913]

About intercepting air bombs.
Yes, SAM manufacturers document that in the list of intercepted targets, in addition to aircraft and missiles, they also include aerial bombs. For example, when reading the website of the Israeli IAI, in the page about the Barak air defense system you can read just such an entry. Theoretically, and even practically, this is possible, especially with ARGSN missiles. But to what extent must the detection radar and anti-aircraft missiles be at the right time in the right place, in the right readiness, and look in the right direction in order to intercept an air bomb from a distance of 5-10 km? Especially if not one, but several air bombs fall on you at once. So, that's kind of a debate.

[gmss]

American Patriot air defense systems, as well as other modern foreign-made anti-aircraft systems, have demonstrated extremely low effectiveness in the fight against Russian high-explosive bombs...

if they write about this, then there were attempts to fire a rocket at a cast iron blank as an experiment)
but most likely this is a mess, since the patriots and the like are located at a considerable distance from the bombing site, otherwise we would have solved the problem with the air defense systems supplied for 404 without expensive missiles

[tralflot1832]

I’ll tell you a terrible secret, with our bombs with wings, the AI ​​genetically does not like to lose and it has a stop valve, pulled, the rocket flew past in confusion and turns around - what it was. And the AI ​​stop valve returned to its place and flew on. Just a joke. Western air defense systems simply don’t were developed against bombs, it’s just that the enemy had nothing to bomb with, neither planes nor standing air defense. The bomb simply could not fly to the western air defense system - this is fantastic.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

and gliding propellers

What is this new word in aerodynamics?

[Aviator_]

and gliding propellers

What is this new word in aerodynamics?

These are maple or ash seeds. Soon they will fly in different directions with the wind. There are no other "gliding propellers"

[vovochkarzhevsky]

These are maple or ash seeds. Soon they will fly in different directions with the wind. There are no other "gliding propellers"

That's what it's like. And I’m looking through the helicopter aerodynamics textbook again. I think maybe I missed something at school. But here you need to read another textbook, biology.

[Reindeer]

Everything is great here - both gliding propellers and Patriots against aerial bombs.. 8)

[Arkady007]

They reprinted some crap for armchair strategists.
A gliding bomb cannot fly for “a little more than a minute” because it is gliding. And then there is no point in procrastinating.

[poquello]

Quote: Arkady007

A gliding bomb cannot fly for “a little more than a minute” because it is gliding.

oh how, a non-planner can do it from 20 km, but a planner can’t))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))))))))))))))

[Dilettante grandfather]

equipping them with “GPS modules and gliding propellers”

Neighing. I love it when VO makes me feel good!

[Glavsvinopas]

It seems to me that the United States will hand over the F-16 to the Ukrainians as a platform for launching long-range guided weapons, and the Ukrainians will destroy them in a week in the battle for air supremacy.

[AlexWar]

If only we had a powerful army, with 10 thousand planes, which would create hell